# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Beginner with 6 X 2 X 2

## vratenza

Hi all experienced guys here!
I'm pretty new to the planted tank...well at least in the form that is sustainable...tried my hands on them by just buying pots of the plants and stuck them in the gravel..... if i am lucky i can get 1-2 survivors....that was way back in secondary school.....after a while i gave up on the plants and concentrated on fish...........hahah i guess u get the picture! :Grin:  

Recently, came across a few aquarium shops with nice planted display and is really intrigued into trying my hands on planted tanks again.......now that i just shifted to my new place....i have staked claimed to a whole wall in the living room for this new venture......after much begging with my CO :Opps:  
Why such a large tank if i am just starting out? Well....i guess i am going into it for long term and larger tank offers more space for creativity with what i want to try out and also upgrade proof for the next few years...... :Grin:  Furthermore......6 ft is just about right in terms of the amount of space it takes up for the wall.... just balanced.....

I have been reading up quite abit around the local forums and such to do my research and some of you may have seen my postings on the other forums before i found my way to this forum....well, i must say the adviced given by the experience forumers here seem to be more thorough and balanced then elsewhere... :Smile:  

I already have in mind what kind of setup i want but will be helpful if the experts here can comment if the setup is feasible or any modification i need to do to the list..... :Angel:  
=======================================================
My intended setup:
- Customised 6 X 2 X 2 ft cabinet style from one of the local tank makers using chengnai wood structures and 12mm glass. (was told with 12mm glass, i will need at least 1 centre bracing......)
- 2 X 2028 Eheim cannister filter
- 5L Co2 tank with JBJ solenoid regulator
- external Co2 reactor
- Resun c500 chiller
- Dymax hi-lux with F/L tubes changed to 6500K tubes
- JBJ base fert X 6 bags and lapis sand X 6 bags
- customised tank to fit under the cabinet to hold aged water for ~ 20% water change.
=======================================================

A couple of queries:
1) I know i have to have centre bracing for tank of this size especially when i cannot afford to go 19mm..... so, should i go for a big centre brace or split the brace into 2 smallers ones a the 2 sides? which will be better for access and reduce light scatter?

2) wiill my choice of canister filters be sufficient to obtain good filtration and circulation around the tank? I heard the external CO2 diffuser will reduce the flow rate quite abit.... not to mention adding a chiller later on...

3) will the MH in dymax hi-lux be sufficient to light up my entire tank? OR should i go for T5 sets instead to cut down on the heat....

4) are the 6 bags of lapis and 6 bags of base fert enough for a proper depth even for deep rooted plants?

5) i will be hiding the chiller in the cabinet.... any issues with ventilation or heat exchange?

6) Some recommended plants to start out. Intended to plant densely.....

7) where to find nice big driftwood and rocks.........

 :Cool:  do i need a ph regulator? How does it work?

Thanks! :Grin:

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## Weirong

This looks like a big project and I really advise you to consider again if you are just beginning to appreciate planted tanks. If things don't work out the way you want, it could really put you off the hobby indefinately. 

But if you have really decided to go ahead after much reading and planning, I suggest you go for something not too high-tech. 

Have you considered how much time you can spend on this tank? You need to consider this and then make your choice of plants. There are quite a lot of low maintenance plants to choose from and they will suit you and your setup well, as you can concentrate your time on other matters - like your type of aquascape, fuana, fert regiment etc.

Personally I would stick to about 2-2.5wpg as this will give you less algae problems. 

Good luck with your project and keep us updated!  :Smile:

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## Nicky

wow wow wow.. here's a big jump into this good hobby.
You seemed to have read up quite a bit already from the list of things you want to get/buy. Good job in staking out a piece of area for yourself.. it is now or never, right?  :Grin:  

Re. the bracing, it I were you I will go for 1 big center piece if I have to. That can also serve as a temp tool holding place when you are doing maint.

Re. filter, I think 2x2028 is good enough. It is true that CO2 reactor (diffuser does not slow down the flow as it does not connect to the flow at all, does it?) and chiller will slow down the flow. But I still think the setup is good enough.

Re. T5 vs MH. T5 is definitely cooler than MH. T5 also offers better spread than MH. If the tank location is rather enclosed or if the house is mostly locked up most of the time in the day and your aircon is not turn on all the time, then the heat build up can be significant. MH cast very hard shadow too. The number of MH (if you use them) will also determine the brace position. If you decides on 2 MH, then center brace is ok. If you want to use 3, then better to have 2 braces, dividing the tank surface into 3 equal areas. You are aware of MH with 70W as well as 150W right? Of course bigger wattage is also available.

Re. Lapis and Base fert qty. I think 4 bags of Lapis is enough. 6 bags of JBJ may just be sufficient. Since you will be buying alot of stuff at a go, you may want to work out a pay-as-you-use plan with the LFS, that is, take 8 bags of JBJ and 6 bags of lapis. If do not need that much, then return for refund.

Re, chiller in cabinet. I am about to embark on my 4ft project. My chiller will be inside my cabinet. See pic in http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=17646
Basicaly I think it is possible to hide the chiller in the cabinet. But you have to take active steps to ensure that the hot air will not be recycled by the chiller. You will need to leave a good size gap between the cabinet and the wall. I am going to leave a 5 inches gap. you will also noticed that I do not have any backings at al for my cabinet. Aeration is one big reason.

Re. plants to start off. You need a concept in mind of what the end pic you like to achieve. Having said that, I generally plant very densely at the start. Many of the fast plants are meant to be sacrificed later when the tank stablised.

Re. where to find driftwood and rocks. You can find them in places like Eco-Culture or Nature Aquarium. Again you need to have some concept in mind before embarking to buy. Having said that, I usually buy more than what I need because you will never know if you need another piece here and there to 'fill in the gap' during the actual setup.

Re. pH controller. Here's how it works.. it has a probe that goes into the water. That probe has to be calibrated every now and then. When CO2 is introduced, carbonic acid (CO2 + water) will drive down pH. When the preset pH is reached, the controller shut off the regulator and hence no more CO2 is introduced. I don't use pH controller. You can start off buying kH and pH measuring kit and from there determine the CO2 level. 


Lastly, I am proud of you. Once you start investing you will find alot of buddies down that path, all complaining no money but still throwing in more money every now and then..  :Grin:

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## vratenza

> This looks like a big project and I really advise you to consider again if you are just beginning to appreciate planted tanks. If things don't work out the way you want, it could really put you off the hobby indefinately. 
> 
> But if you have really decided to go ahead after much reading and planning, I suggest you go for something not too high-tech. 
> 
> Have you considered how much time you can spend on this tank? You need to consider this and then make your choice of plants. There are quite a lot of low maintenance plants to choose from and they will suit you and your setup well, as you can concentrate your time on other matters - like your type of aquascape, fuana, fert regiment etc.
> 
> Personally I would stick to about 2-2.5wpg as this will give you less algae problems. 
> 
> Good luck with your project and keep us updated!


hi! Hi thanks for the advice to reconsider... actually not that inexperienced as i am currently playing around with a 1.5X0.5X1.5 ft tank with overhead filter....its on nutrafin co2 & flippers...2mm sand with no base fert.....so far my plants are growing ok....maybe they r low maintenance type  :Smile:  now waiting for my taiwan moss wall to grow out.... :Smile: 
as you can see, with this setup, i am beginning to appreciate the challenges & thrill of a well planted aquarium.....that makes me feel constrained by its small size which resulted in many other limitations.... that's one of the reason i am going for a bigger setup :Smug: 

the problem i have now is plant IDing ....do you have any recommendation to read up on the commonly avail plants in Spore LFS? That way i can zoom in on the lower maintainance plants :Smile: 

the last i calculated, for 3wpg, i should be looking at 500+w of lights...... what is your advice?

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## vratenza

> wow wow wow.. here's a big jump into this good hobby.
> You seemed to have read up quite a bit already from the list of things you want to get/buy. Good job in staking out a piece of area for yourself.. it is now or never, right?  
> 
> Re. the bracing, it I were you I will go for 1 big center piece if I have to. That can also serve as a temp tool holding place when you are doing maint.
> 
> Re. filter, I think 2x2028 is good enough. It is true that CO2 reactor (diffuser does not slow down the flow as it does not connect to the flow at all, does it?) and chiller will slow down the flow. But I still think the setup is good enough.
> 
> Re. T5 vs MH. T5 is definitely cooler than MH. T5 also offers better spread than MH. If the tank location is rather enclosed or if the house is mostly locked up most of the time in the day and your aircon is not turn on all the time, then the heat build up can be significant. MH cast very hard shadow too. The number of MH (if you use them) will also determine the brace position. If you decides on 2 MH, then center brace is ok. If you want to use 3, then better to have 2 braces, dividing the tank surface into 3 equal areas. You are aware of MH with 70W as well as 150W right? Of course bigger wattage is also available.
> 
> ...


hi! thanks for all the specific reply to all my queries  :Smug: 
I saw your thread on your 4ft tank setup... really impressed with the tot thats go into the design of your tank and the cabinet.

a few questions:
1) can pm me who is your tank maker, and would you recommend him?
2) like the louvred doors & removable side panels....looks like very good airflow...r they much more expensive than the standard doors?
3) as my maindoor will open towards the side off the tank...cannot afford have a big gap from the wall...prob the thickness of the wall skirting only....will this be sufficient?
4) i noticed u R using T5 lights from aquamarine....can share with me on your considerations ? why not get brands like dymax hi-lux etc?
Actually NA quote me on a set of T5 lights using osram tubes & ballast..... dunno is i should qet them instead of MH + FL sets.....:/
5) do u know if NA do pay as u use plan? intending to get most of my stuff there ...or u have any better recommendation?

thanks!

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## hii

Just one comment from me ... I will not using lapis sand if have choice..heavy and need a lot to fill up the depth compare to soil. (I always scare the floor will crack hehe but who know it might happen cos 6ft talking here).

of course $$ involve again, but if got budget try soil better. ocean free soil also no bad, used and result was "good" + lighter a lot than lapis sand.

ADA + powersand is "wow" result but ex....

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## cks

If you are not committed to a tank maker yet, I would urge you to consider the following : 

Scout around for a reputable tank maker cos currently there are many good and reputable tanker makers around. Bioplast at Blk 22 Boon Keng Road imports tanks from Germany and their quality is also quite good. Another is Aquatechnic but they are quite pricey but they indeed produce very high quality tanks. Coral Reef also makes good tanks. Green Chapter is also a good place for reference and they also do set ups for clients.

Secondly, as you are still new in this hobby, have you considered about an open concept tank. Instead of using FL & PL you can use MH. By using MH you can suspend the lights from the ceiling and you can have plants grow out of your aquarium.And you only change the MH bulb once every 2 years ? Also by having an open concept tank you can easily convert in into a paludarium in future if you are sick of the aquarium set up. Also by having an open concept tank you can have 'euro bracing' . It is actually two strips of glass that run parallel to the front and side glass panel. Looks more professional and will not hinder you when you do maintenance work.

Indidently if you are making an aquarium from scratch do not over look the possibility of using pvc piping for your tank. When you use pvc piping there are two holes drilled at the base of the aquarium and the piping goes from the bottom of the tank and you do not see any ugly green pipies sticking out of the tank.

Also if you are going to make your tank locally, you have a choice of glass. There is a wide range of glass that you can choose from eg crystal glass and also sapphire glass. The more expensive grades are imho are the Japanese brands and they are very clear and it will make a big difference in clarity.

As for filteration of your 6 footer, I would say that a Eheiem 2260 will do the job for you. This is a work horse of a filter and you do not have to clean the filter so often.

As for the frame ( cabinet ) . You do not need the whole tank to be made of chengal wood. Only the main frame needs to be chengal and the doors etc can be made of other types of wood. 

Or alternatively you may again want to have an open concept base made of stainless steel( where there are really no doors ) . Then you do not have to worry about heat being trapped in your cabinet. Where you only have the steel frame and the rest of your equiptment is exposed. This is also very classy and may match your surroundings.

Btw I am not realted to any of the establishments mentioned in this post.

Happy hunting .

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## neon

Bro cks, right on ! Seems like you and I had same thought in common on setting up a 6ft tank.

Bro vratenza, you can have 6' tank(like mine and many others) absolutely without centre bracing like cks mentioned and it can be made locally. Just search in http://www.arofanatics.com for tank maker , and there will a few. I am not going to recommend anyone , you may want to see and hear from others first. The centre bracing will definite obstruct any of your creativity like big drift wood, MH, maintenance,etc.



> Instead of using FL & PL you can use MH. By using MH you can suspend the lights from the ceiling and you can have plants grow out of your aquarium.And you only change the MH bulb once every 2 years ? Also by having an open concept tank you can easily convert in into a paludarium in future if you are sick of the aquarium set up. Also by having an open concept tank you can have 'euro bracing' . It is actually two strips of glass that run parallel to the front and side glass panel. Looks more professional and will not hinder you when you do maintenance work.


I would recommend MH, reason being :
a) If you are not very very particular to cover every single inch with light. 
b) MH gives good penetration to higher depth than any PL , T5 or FL. Watt/gallon is not applicable anymore.
c) each MH 150W 8000K bulb is less than $40 , and change every 2 years vs other PL/T5 changes more frequent. Just calculate yourself. 
d) there are variety of MH and T5 or PL combination hang on lighting.
e) ease of maintenance is definitely a plus with MH like mine (5.5' long) hangs above water ~14" and I can reach any spot in the tank under the light .





> Indidently if you are making an aquarium from scratch do not over look the possibility of using pvc piping for your tank. When you use pvc piping there are two holes drilled at the base of the aquarium and the piping goes from the bottom of the tank and you do not see any ugly green pipies sticking out of the tank.


YES !! Piping is a must for big tank like this . To make it and enjoyable experience to maintain a 6' tank even make you think changing water every day is fun (if you need to, but I am not suggesting). 

Position of your tank and piping become 2 the crucial points , reasons :
a) topup tap water 
b) discharge tank water / water change

I positioned my tank at the living room wall which is facing the kitchen toilet. What I had done was to get certified HDB electrical contractor to install 2 power socket with a circuit breaker each. If anyone of them is overloaded won't trip the other, so watch out for this if you did not request for this, the contractor will pull 3 wires and fix 2 wall sockets from the same 3 wires load. Also the electrical contractor usually is very skillful in drilling holes thru walls, and I requested him to 2 x 2" holes - 1 for tank water top up and 1 for tank water discharge. 

As I already have a separate tap for the washing machine, and I fixed a Y-splitted tap, each side has a on/off level . With this, one side for my washing machine is not affected with full trottle, and the other side I adjust the on/off to topup my tank slowly . It is really upto you. 

Get reputated tank maker who really can do PVC piping and don't afraid to ask for lots of ball-valves, even the toilet side also has one. My piping is considered moderate in the tank maker perspective, but too complicated to describe here.




> As for filteration of your 6 footer, I would say that a Eheiem 2260 will do the job for you. This is a work horse of a filter and you do not have to clean the filter so often.


I agreed 2260 (2400L/h) is the minimum, and I changed to 2262(3400L/h) (I simply bought another 2nd hand 1262 pump to replace the 1260 pump for the carnister) reason being that I splited to two sides water return, and with chiller in between, etc. With this, I have more choice to twick. Also , 2260/2262 I considered the best, as it has one discharge valve , and water input is the from the bottom. I don't need to carry the carnister to toilet to clean. Let see how I clean my media. With the help of the piping/ball valve, upon discharge the water out (as mentioned earlier), open up the carnister , remove all the media onto a big tub, close the discharge valve, open the tank water return and water rise from below, wash one media at one time all using tank water, discharge water , and repeat again and again. With weekly 50% WC, I have plenty of good tank water to clean the carnister , without any hustle.



> As for the frame ( cabinet ) . You do not need the whole tank to be made of chengal wood. Only the main frame needs to be chengal and the doors etc can be made of other types of wood.


Yes, chengai wood if you can afford and no worry, but make sure the whole frame is lie flat on the floor to evenly spread the load of the tank,water,gravel,etc. Some make chengai frame with 4 or 6 legged, that put a lot of pressure on the floor in smaller area.

Cheers

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## vratenza

> Just one comment from me ... I will not using lapis sand if have choice..heavy and need a lot to fill up the depth compare to soil. (I always scare the floor will crack hehe but who know it might happen cos 6ft talking here).
> 
> of course $$ involve again, but if got budget try soil better. ocean free soil also no bad, used and result was "good" + lighter a lot than lapis sand.
> 
> ADA + powersand is "wow" result but ex....


hmmm but it seem like alot of fellow bros here uses lapis sand....one of the main reason i choose it is also because it is inert...thus less variable to worry about in terms of the substrate affecting the water chemistry..... :Smile:  

But honestly it din occur to me to even consider soil prior to ur comment.... hmmm.... maybe i will read up more on it... you got any reference sites or links? is yours planted in soil? can show me some picts of ur setup? Thanks! :Grin:

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## Nicky

> But honestly it din occur to me to even consider soil prior to ur comment.... hmmm.... maybe i will read up more on it... you got any reference sites or links? is yours planted in soil? can show me some picts of ur setup? Thanks!


I think he is refering to ADA Aquasoil, not the garden soil.

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## vratenza

> If you are not committed to a tank maker yet, I would urge you to consider the following : 
> 
> Scout around for a reputable tank maker cos currently there are many good and reputable tanker makers around. Bioplast at Blk 22 Boon Keng Road imports tanks from Germany and their quality is also quite good. Another is Aquatechnic but they are quite pricey but they indeed produce very high quality tanks. Coral Reef also makes good tanks. Green Chapter is also a good place for reference and they also do set ups for clients.


 I'm actually in contact with a few tank makers from Arofanatic forum... got some quotes from them already...... all of them seem to have a following and reputation... :Grin:  




> Secondly, as you are still new in this hobby, have you considered about an open concept tank. Instead of using FL & PL you can use MH. By using MH you can suspend the lights from the ceiling and you can have plants grow out of your aquarium.And you only change the MH bulb once every 2 years ? Also by having an open concept tank you can easily convert in into a paludarium in future if you are sick of the aquarium set up. Also by having an open concept tank you can have 'euro bracing' . It is actually two strips of glass that run parallel to the front and side glass panel. Looks more professional and will not hinder you when you do maintenance work.


One of my limitations is that i cannot have hanging lightings as my CO will kill me for messing up the place further....... So for MH options that is not hung... that means they will be much closer to the water for comfort....the water will "boil"! Although i will be getting a chiller....the running cost will be skyhigh.......so I am more towards T5 lightings with top skirtings to cover the ugly fixtures while maintaining "open" hood concept....




> Indidently if you are making an aquarium from scratch do not over look the possibility of using pvc piping for your tank. When you use pvc piping there are two holes drilled at the base of the aquarium and the piping goes from the bottom of the tank and you do not see any ugly green pipies sticking out of the tank.


I dun really understand what you are trying to describe? never seen such a setup... the closest i come across is those External overflow system that leads the water to a sump beneath the tank........and i thought a sump is a no no for planted in terms of high CO2 loss.... please explain to be what u mean exactly.....maybe pictures will help :Smile:  




> Also if you are going to make your tank locally, you have a choice of glass. There is a wide range of glass that you can choose from eg crystal glass and also sapphire glass. The more expensive grades are imho are the Japanese brands and they are very clear and it will make a big difference in clarity.


The tank makers are all quoting me based on 12 mm Asahi glass... dunno wat grade though... :Razz:  




> As for filteration of your 6 footer, I would say that a Eheiem 2260 will do the job for you. This is a work horse of a filter and you do not have to clean the filter so often.


I checked the specs for 2028 and 2260......
2028 pump output is 1049L/H
2260 pump output is 1900L/H
So, 2 X 2028 is slightly more powerful than the single 2260......
I was advised to get 2 separate filter canister to better distribute the flow as the in/out of each filter can be placed at the 2 ends of the tank... :Smile:  




> Or alternatively you may again want to have an open concept base made of stainless steel( where there are really no doors ) . Then you do not have to worry about heat being trapped in your cabinet. Where you only have the steel frame and the rest of your equiptment is exposed. This is also very classy and may match your surroundings.


I need to enclose all the unsightly equipments and water changing equipments.....must be aesthetically pleasing for CO's eyes....... :Laughing:

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## vratenza

> I think he is refering to ADA Aquasoil, not the garden soil.


erm..... i tot sand is anything in the region of 1-5 mm and soil is much finer? :Huh?:

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## Nicky

> 1) can pm me who is your tank maker, and would you recommend him?


Aquamarin made my tank. The quality is good. If you like to see it for yourself send me an email or PM.




> 2) like the louvred doors & removable side panels....looks like very good airflow...r they much more expensive than the standard doors?


Louvred door could possibility be more ex than laminated plywood but do not know how much more. If you want the contact of my carpenter to check it out, email or PM me.




> 3) as my maindoor will open towards the side off the tank...cannot afford have a big gap from the wall...prob the thickness of the wall skirting only....will this be sufficient?


The thickness of wall skirting for ventillation of chiller is not enough, IMO. Alternatively you can turn the chiller around to face the louvered door. Or even better still, go for the 0.5HP or 1HP chiller that System Control & Engineering did for some in this forum; the compressor unit looks like that of a regular aircon and is wall mount, outside your house. Only the evaporator unit (with all the coils) is hidden in your cabinet, no heat at all. Price is not too scary, in fact quite comparable to regular good chiller. The thing is some minor reno work is needed; how much depends on your preference; hidden conduit or exposed, etc.




> 4) i noticed u R using T5 lights from aquamarine....can share with me on your considerations ? why not get brands like dymax hi-lux etc?
> Actually NA quote me on a set of T5 lights using osram tubes & ballast..... dunno is i should qet them instead of MH + FL sets.....:/


First of all, I am at all related to Aquamarin.
I buy their lights because I like the clean-cut look and I want to suspend my lights. MH produces too much heat. T5 is good enough for my setup and the depth of my tank is 28". FYI, this T5 that I got also have the option of very nice legs to sit on your tank. But I don't think T5 comes in 6ft. 5ft T5 is 80W but never heard of 6ft one. That's another consideration for the position of your bracing.




> 5) do u know if NA do pay as u use plan? intending to get most of my stuff there ...or u have any better recommendation?


If I were to be them I will do it. You can always propose to Chan that you pay for all upfront but anything that is not opened/used can be returned in the original condition within a specific time frame. If you buy everything or almost everything from him I don't see why he will not agree. Or ask Green Chapter, Eco-Culture, Fu Wo, etc. There are just alot of credible suppliers out there.

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## |squee|

You guys are certainly doing a good job of helping him out!  :Well done: 

Perhaps diagrams will be useful.

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## Nicky

> erm..... i tot sand is anything in the region of 1-5 mm and soil is much finer?


I think we are refering to ADA Powersand and ADA Aquasoil.
Ex. but good stuff.

ADA Powersand does not look like sand.
ADA Aquasoil does not look like soil.

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## vratenza

> Bro cks, right on ! Seems like you and I had same thought in common on setting up a 6ft tank.
> 
> Bro vratenza, you can have 6' tank(like mine and many others) absolutely without centre bracing like cks mentioned and it can be made locally. Just search in http://www.arofanatics.com for tank maker , and there will a few. I am not going to recommend anyone , you may want to see and hear from others first. The centre bracing will definite obstruct any of your creativity like big drift wood, MH, maintenance,etc.


But i called up a few of these tank makers in arofanatics and out of the 3.... only 1 say that it will be no problem doing a 6x2x2 without any centre brace..... the other 2 say definitely must have some form of centre brace unless i go for minimum 19mm.... which is prohibitively $$$! So i am getting conflicting signals here..... If you have a 6x2x2 without centre brace and no problem so far, can you please pm me your tank maker and his contact? Thanks! :Smile:  




> I would recommend MH, reason being :
> a) If you are not very very particular to cover every single inch with light. 
> b) MH gives good penetration to higher depth than any PL , T5 or FL. Watt/gallon is not applicable anymore.
> c) each MH 150W 8000K bulb is less than $40 , and change every 2 years vs other PL/T5 changes more frequent. Just calculate yourself. 
> d) there are variety of MH and T5 or PL combination hang on lighting.
> e) ease of maintenance is definitely a plus with MH like mine (5.5' long) hangs above water ~14" and I can reach any spot in the tank under the light .


 Those are very valid MH plus points but i have to take into considerations that i cannot hang the MH and thus will be very close to the water surface and that the water temp will be quite high resulting in need to invest in better bigger chiller and increase electricity bill and chiller servicing/parts.... so more or less wipe out any savings from MH bulb changes...





> YES !! Piping is a must for big tank like this . To make it and enjoyable experience to maintain a 6' tank even make you think changing water every day is fun (if you need to, but I am not suggesting). 
> 
> Position of your tank and piping become 2 the crucial points , reasons :
> a) topup tap water 
> b) discharge tank water / water change
> 
> I positioned my tank at the living room wall which is facing the kitchen toilet. What I had done was to get certified HDB electrical contractor to install 2 power socket with a circuit breaker each. If anyone of them is overloaded won't trip the other, so watch out for this if you did not request for this, the contractor will pull 3 wires and fix 2 wall sockets from the same 3 wires load. Also the electrical contractor usually is very skillful in drilling holes thru walls, and I requested him to 2 x 2" holes - 1 for tank water top up and 1 for tank water discharge. 
> 
> As I already have a separate tap for the washing machine, and I fixed a Y-splitted tap, each side has a on/off level . With this, one side for my washing machine is not affected with full trottle, and the other side I adjust the on/off to topup my tank slowly . It is really upto you. 
> ...


I do not have the luck to have my tank situating just adjacent to the kitchen or toiler....... so i thought to minimise my effort during water changes.... i can link the returning port of the filter canister to a hose leading to the toilet and it will pump out the water for me...... once i am done, just switch off the canister. To refill, just have to connect the hose to the toilet hose loh........alternatively i can store a container of water for aging purpose and get a pump to pump up the water from there :Grin:  So what do you think?




> I agreed 2260 (2400L/h) is the minimum, and I changed to 2262(3400L/h) (I simply bought another 2nd hand 1262 pump to replace the 1260 pump for the carnister) reason being that I splited to two sides water return, and with chiller in between, etc. With this, I have more choice to twick. Also , 2260/2262 I considered the best, as it has one discharge valve , and water input is the from the bottom. I don't need to carry the carnister to toilet to clean. Let see how I clean my media. With the help of the piping/ball valve, upon discharge the water out (as mentioned earlier), open up the carnister , remove all the media onto a big tub, close the discharge valve, open the tank water return and water rise from below, wash one media at one time all using tank water, discharge water , and repeat again and again. With weekly 50% WC, I have plenty of good tank water to clean the carnister , without any hustle.


That's a good method! but i am worried about inadequacy of a single suction and out flow control to minimise dead spot and also prevent too strong a current at a particuler spot of the tank by just using a single more powerful filter.... :Opps:  




> Yes, chengai wood if you can afford and no worry, but make sure the whole frame is lie flat on the floor to evenly spread the load of the tank,water,gravel,etc. Some make chengai frame with 4 or 6 legged, that put a lot of pressure on the floor in smaller area.


Hmm... good advise! will note about it when i meetup with the tank maker to discuss the cabinet! :Grin:

----------


## Nicky

> Also by having an open concept tank you can have 'euro bracing' . It is actually two strips of glass that run parallel to the front and side glass panel. Looks more professional and will not hinder you when you do maintenance work.


Another option of Euro bracing is to have 4 strips of glass running along the top of all 4 sides of the tank. And don't overlap the 4 strips of glass, that is, the 4 strips should be flat like a running track to your finger. And build the euro-bracing as close to the top edge as possible. That's what I call 'neat'. :Well done:

----------


## benny

> I have been reading up quite abit around the local forums and such to do my research and some of you may have seen my postings on the other forums before i found my way to this forum....well, i must say the adviced given by the experience forumers here seem to be more thorough and balanced then elsewhere...


Hi vratenza!

Welcome to Aquatic Quotient and thanks for the kind compliments. Really made our day.

I had some comments, but most of them are already covered by the good advice, comments and recommendations posted by the guys earlier.

One thing I will point out is the by using 1 filter instead of 2, the heat load on the water will be reduced as the pump also contribute heat to the water. Check the Wattage on 2 X 2028 and 1 X 2260 and you can get an estimate. Incidentally, the Eheim Professional III series has 2 inlet and 1 outlet. Uses very little power, but it's a a premium. Easy maintanence, but at a premium.

You setup sounds exciting. Do keep us updated of the development. Better yet, show us as it happens, very much like what Nicky has done. 

Cheers,

----------


## vratenza

> Another option of Euro bracing is to have 4 strips of glass running along the top of all 4 sides of the tank. And don't overlap the 4 strips of glass, that is, the 4 strips should be flat like a running track to your finger. And build the euro-bracing as close to the top edge as possible. That's what I call 'neat'.


I tried asking the tank makers... they say for 6x2x2, even if using eurobracing, they must also ad the centre brace.....sigh..... only one say he can do otherwise.... that's why abit worried... :Crying:

----------


## Nicky

> I tried asking the tank makers... they say for 6x2x2, even if using eurobracing, they must also ad the centre brace.....sigh..... only one say he can do otherwise.... that's why abit worried...


Here's my take on this..

You need to hold the tank-maker responsible for your tank and the safety that comes with it. So if they said you must have this and that it is best to follow their instruction.

I think you are ok; 
- you do not want suspended light
- you do not want MH because you cannot suspend them
- you want to have something cool and yet need to penetrate water
- your tank need center bracing (according to your tank maker)
- you are considering T5 and T5 does not come in 6ft

So you just have to make the center brace and get 3ft T5 lah.  :Jump for joy:  

Aquamarin has a neat and affordable T5.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=17588
Seen it with my own eye. Can consider.

----------


## vratenza

> Hi vratenza!
> 
> Welcome to Aquatic Quotient and thanks for the kind compliments. Really made our day.
> 
> I had some comments, but most of them are already covered by the good advice, comments and recommendations posted by the guys earlier.
> 
> One thing I will point out is the by using 1 filter instead of 2, the heat load on the water will be reduced as the pump also contribute heat to the water. Check the Wattage on 2 X 2028 and 1 X 2260 and you can get an estimate. Incidentally, the Eheim Professional III series has 2 inlet and 1 outlet. Uses very little power, but it's a a premium. Easy maintanence, but at a premium.
> 
> You setup sounds exciting. Do keep us updated of the development. Better yet, show us as it happens, very much like what Nicky has done. 
> ...


Thanks for the warm welcome!

Your commments are sound in principle  :Grin:  
but when i checked the wattage for 2028 (25w) vs 2260 (50w)........so they worked out to be the same leh..... both about 50W of power consumption and thus abou the same amt of heat energy produce given the same mechanical underpinings. I guess 2X 2028 offers more versatility whereas a single 2260 offers ease of maintainance.... :Grin:  

BTW....whats the cost of 2260 vs 2X 2028?

But the eheim pro III is a piece of art! wonder if anyone has it in Spore? Anyone care to shock me with the pricing? :Cool:

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## Nicky

Another thing.. you probably want to know that you do not really need solid wood for your supporting brace of your cabinet. 2 supporting structures, each with 2 piece of 1" thick plywood stick together will do the supporting role. When I order a 622 tank from a very reputable shop some years back, that was how it was done. To-date, the cabinet is still intact and looks as strong as before.

Chengai wood is for kiasu people, like me.. :Grin:

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## Nicky

> But the eheim pro III is a piece of art! wonder if anyone has it in Spore? Anyone care to shock me with the pricing?


Kingfisher is using it for their display tank.
NA has a piece for sale.
Vinz is using one.

Price is high $5xx to low $6xx. Ask LFS lah.

Go for 2 filters lah, what's the point of having 2 input and only 1 outlet if you want circulation? Having 1 filter instead of 2 means if the only one die on you then you are caught. Having said that, I have yet to hear Eheim failing on anyone.

----------


## vratenza

> Here's my take on this..
> 
> You need to hold the tank-maker responsible for your tank and the safety that comes with it. So if they said you must have this and that it is best to follow their instruction.
> 
> I think you are ok; 
> - you do not want suspended light
> - you do not want MH because you cannot suspend them
> - you want to have something cool and yet need to penetrate water
> - your tank need center bracing (according to your tank maker)
> ...


I was looking at this offering too from Aquamarin but my biggest question is whether it has parabolic reflectors. Read that parabolic reflectors make the most difference in the light penetration....... Otherwise i may be looking at Delighting's offering which have the parabolic reflectors.......if no size can fit i may consider DIY with their DIY kit with aluminium square rods :Grin:

----------


## vratenza

> Kingfisher is using it for their display tank.
> NA has a piece for sale.
> Vinz is using one.
> 
> Price is high $5xx to low $6xx. Ask LFS lah.
> 
> Go for 2 filters lah, what's the point of having 2 input and only 1 outlet if you want circulation? Having 1 filter instead of 2 means if the only one die on you then you are caught. Having said that, I have yet to hear Eheim failing on anyone.


hmmm $5xx to $600.... that's about the price of 2X 2028.... :Grin:  

That said.... a single pro III will only give 1700L/H of pump output whereas 2X 2028 is 2098L/H in total..... hmmm... seem like the choice is clearer now :Wink:

----------


## cks

It is not a bad idea to use 2 filters if you can afford the $$$ and have enough space under your cabinet to place the 2 filters. Don't forget that eventaully you will have the 5 lts co2 bottle there, and when you progress into the hobby you want to install a uv set, then the external co2 diffusor and later when the idea of a chiller comes along then how are you going to explain to your *CO* that you need extra space.
The advanteges of having 2 filters are that you can use the first as a mechanical filter. The second as a biological filter. You can service 1 filter every six months. Alternatively the 1st filter can also be used as a chemical filter ie when the water in your tank becomes yellowish and you want to add some carbon to polish the water.Later when the clarity of your aquarium water is up to the mark, you can remove the carbon.
There is actually no reason why you should not use two filters. However do consider the other equiptment which will move in as you progress into this hobby.

----------


## vratenza

> It is not a bad idea to use 2 filters if you can afford the $$$ and have enough space under your cabinet to place the 2 filters. Don't forget that eventaully you will have the 5 lts co2 bottle there, and when you progress into the hobby you want to install a uv set, then the external co2 diffusor and later when the idea of a chiller comes along then how are you going to explain to your *CO* that you need extra space.
> The advanteges of having 2 filters are that you can use the first as a mechanical filter. The second as a biological filter. You can service 1 filter every six months. Alternatively the 1st filter can also be used as a chemical filter ie when the water in your tank becomes yellowish and you want to add some carbon to polish the water.Later when the clarity of your aquarium water is up to the mark, you can remove the carbon.
> There is actually no reason why you should not use two filters. However do consider the other equiptment which will move in as you progress into this hobby.


Hmmm my policy is to do it right the first time.....of cos that will mean must stretch my limited budget to the fullest to get the best i can afford upon starting out....so the cost of 2 eheim is like a sunken cost already.... to play with the limited budget slowly........ intending to do the following:
Get the Tank+cabinet, base fert+gravel and ext cannister filters first......setup the tank and let the tank run in first.........
The next budget surplus (hopefully within a mth), can get the plants, T5 lights set and co2 sets with external reactor.....
Finish off with Chiller in the next round......... :Grin:  

Off cos if the budget permits or i eat sandwhich every day.... ideally can squeeze it all in 1 or 2 purchase :Opps:  

Regarding the space for all the equipments, i have considered each equipment's relative estimated size and I think i have more than enough space given that the cabinet underneath the 6 ft tank will be huge..... may even have space for a water aging tank :Wink:

----------


## Nicky

> Get the Tank+cabinet, base fert+gravel and ext cannister filters first......setup the tank and let the tank run in first.........
> The next budget surplus (hopefully within a mth), can get the plants, T5 lights set and co2 sets with external reactor.....
> Finish off with Chiller in the next round.........


If I were you I will not wait to plant after the base fert and substrate goes it. No matter what your base fert will leak a little into the water column. This plus no plant is definitely a receipe for a successful algae farm.




> ...may even have space for a water aging tank


This is the first time I heard of planted folks having a permenant water aging tank. Share with us on the rational of having it.

----------


## vratenza

> If I were you I will not wait to plant after the base fert and substrate goes it. No matter what your base fert will leak a little into the water column. This plus no plant is definitely a receipe for a successful algae farm.


 hmm.... din think about that..... ok then...think will throw in a few bunch of those fast growers like the cabomba duckweeds to absorb the nutrients. But then again.... during that time i dun have my T5 lights yet..... so without much light will the algae flourish?





> This is the first time I heard of planted folks having a permenant water aging tank. Share with us on the rational of having it.


Well, i intend to have fish and shrimp as well.... and since the end of last year PUB has added Chloramine to our tap waters...... frankly speaking i suffered from this as i din realise that chloramine has been added.... so when i got my 1.5 ft tank earlier... i just fill it up with tap water and just let the filter run for 2 days before adding some livestock to establish the N cycle.... but in the end i got 50% casualties.... it's only when i read around the forum and realised that chloramine is in our tap and the normal aging or aerating dos not blow it off unlike the chlorine... need to use anti-chloramine agents......

So back to my point on water aging tank.......if i do water change...say 20% of the water drained and i pump in the water from the tap straight, i think some of my more sensitive intended inhabitats cannot take the untreated tap water...especially the shrimps.......so by filling the water aging tank first, i can add in anti-chloramine (i am using STRESS-COAT) and then by the use of a small pump, pump this treated water up to the main tank.... :Grin:  

Also i will have a ready source of treated water to wash my filters without killing my BB colonies :Grin:  

So do you think i am being kiasu here? :Opps:

----------


## BFG

Hi Vratenza, welcome to AQ!

2x2028
1x external co2 reactor or even 2. 1 for each filter output,
Pressurised co2 set,
1x surface skimmer,
chiller,
spare length of hoses for the filter.

You can get the hardware 1st so that you have some time studying how and where you would want to place these equipment. Since you have the space to place the 6 footer tank, why not mark the space with tape where the tank will be placed? You could visualize where all your hardware would be placed and get to adjust them to your preference. Purchase the tank AFTER you are sure of the equipment placement in the cabinet.

The Tank.

I've read through and it seems you are in a dilemma over the centre bracing. You got 2 choice and it ties in with the light set that you are getting ( T5 lights ).
1) If you would want to have a centre bracing, you would have to get 2 set of 4x39w 3ft T5 or 4 set of 2x39w T5 light set where you have more capability to adjust the light placement.

2) If you do not want a centre brace, you could get a 5ft T5 lightset. BUT, the side bracing need to be wider for the 5ft T5 light set to sit on. You could employ eurobracing to be used as some of the member has pointed out. BUT again, the bracing that run the length of the tank MUST have pre-drilled holes for the filter pipes to go through. 

You could 'hide' the lightset and make it seems 'flushed' with the actual tank, such that the lightset does not protrude above the actual tank. You need to find the thinnest T5 lightset and get the measurement for the height of that lightset. Then you could instruct your tankmaker to have the side bracing built to the depth of the measurement. To visually cover the lightset, cover the front and sides with 'black tape' that is wide enough to cover the bracing from sight. This 'black tape' is usually sold at most lfs. It is a cheaper alternative than to have a open hood covering the bracing as that cost much more than a simple black tape.

Chiller.
I would not place the chiller in the cabinet, period. Nothing substitute efficient hot air dispersal like open space. 

Before purchasing the substrate and fertiliser, spare some time going through some pictures of planted tank setup. There could be 1 design that you want to follow or emulate. Why do this? This step will help you to place the equipment that go into the tank eg the intake and outlet pipe going to and from the filter. The setup may have some places where you could hide the intake and output filter tube, making the setup aesthetically natural looking. Or, you could use the full range of ADA glass pipes. :Grin:  

Hope this helps!

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## solonavi

Nice to see another big tank in the making. Your list of equipments are very similar to mine but I'm using a sump system.  :Razz:  (check my signature)

Cheers
JC

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## vratenza

> Hi Vratenza, welcome to AQ!
> 
> 2x2028
> 1x external co2 reactor or even 2. 1 for each filter output,
> Pressurised co2 set,
> 1x surface skimmer,
> chiller,
> spare length of hoses for the filter.
> 
> You can get the hardware 1st so that you have some time studying how and where you would want to place these equipment. Since you have the space to place the 6 footer tank, why not mark the space with tape where the tank will be placed? You could visualize where all your hardware would be placed and get to adjust them to your preference. Purchase the tank AFTER you are sure of the equipment placement in the cabinet.


Good idea there.... but then again my CO will be nagging at me for buying the equipments before the tank..... to them, it is akin to buying your furnitures and electicals before your house is bought :Razz:  



> The Tank.
> I've read through and it seems you are in a dilemma over the centre bracing. You got 2 choice and it ties in with the light set that you are getting ( T5 lights ).
> 1) If you would want to have a centre bracing, you would have to get 2 set of 4x39w 3ft T5 or 4 set of 2x39w T5 light set where you have more capability to adjust the light placement.
> 
> 2) If you do not want a centre brace, you could get a 5ft T5 lightset. BUT, the side bracing need to be wider for the 5ft T5 light set to sit on. You could employ eurobracing to be used as some of the member has pointed out. BUT again, the bracing that run the length of the tank MUST have pre-drilled holes for the filter pipes to go through. 
> 
> You could 'hide' the lightset and make it seems 'flushed' with the actual tank, such that the lightset does not protrude above the actual tank. You need to find the thinnest T5 lightset and get the measurement for the height of that lightset. Then you could instruct your tankmaker to have the side bracing built to the depth of the measurement. To visually cover the lightset, cover the front and sides with 'black tape' that is wide enough to cover the bracing from sight. This 'black tape' is usually sold at most lfs. It is a cheaper alternative than to have a open hood covering the bracing as that cost much more than a simple black tape.


I am more for your option 2. Where by i will check with the tank maker if he can do euro bracing but make the side eurobracing glass panel wider to hold the pressure..... But from what i heard from NA Mr Chan, he can modify a 6ft hood to hold 6x 39W T5 tubes for me.... need to go back and ask him if can squeeze in 8x 39W T5 instead... that way, i do not need to rest the hood on the bracing and thus reduce the heat transfer to the water.... :Grin:  



> Chiller.
> I would not place the chiller in the cabinet, period. Nothing substitute efficient hot air dispersal like open space.


I know the best is still open air.... but my CO has already laid the ground rules.... i can have the tank but i cannot mess up the space outside the confines of the tank/cabinet..... :Crying:  
So i guess i have to learn to deal with this limitation...... :Sad:  



> Before purchasing the substrate and fertiliser, spare some time going through some pictures of planted tank setup. There could be 1 design that you want to follow or emulate. Why do this? This step will help you to place the equipment that go into the tank eg the intake and outlet pipe going to and from the filter. The setup may have some places where you could hide the intake and output filter tube, making the setup aesthetically natural looking. Or, you could use the full range of ADA glass pipes.


hmmm where can i find ADA products in singapore? any catalog online? But given the budget constraint, probably will be some where down the road.....for the time being just use the provided eheim accessories... :Grin:

----------


## vratenza

> Nice to see another big tank in the making. Your list of equipments are very similar to mine but I'm using a sump system.  (check my signature)
> 
> Cheers
> JC


Hi JC, you are in arofanatics as well right? i think i saw your postings there. Actually my list of equipments and stuff are partly inspired by you  :Embarassed:  Just that i decided to go the non-sump route :Grin:  

Can check with you, for your tank, how many bags of jbl base fert and lapis sand did you use in the end? I am calculating the amount to buy..... Spoken to NA Mr Chan, he told me I only need 5 bags of each......but i am not sure how deep will the amount he recommended come up to....
How deep is your final suubstrate? how deep is your base fert alone?

I noticed you are using centre glass bracing even though you have euro bracing already. Yours is made by Gerald a.k.a Tank_maker right? He told me for my 6x2x2 i definitely have to use a centre glass brace also.... but i am trying to get it done without it leh......

Is yours chengai or kamphor structure?

Also, I noticed that you have a "dark spot" in the top centre of the tank when lights are on..... is it due to the joint at the 2 sets of lights resting on the wooden centre brace of the hood cover or isit contributed by the GLASS centre brace below as well? The reason i ask is because i am currently deciding on the best combination of lighting option for my tank........ hopefully i can have a solution that will eliminate these "blindspots"....

Thanks! :Grin:

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## neon

Sorry don't know to post small thumb-size photo here.

My 6' x2x2 tank (12mm thickness, black silicon) , euro bracing top and bottom, pre-drilled holes for filter hoses







Placement of 2262 , co2 tank , pvc piping , full chengai cabinet flat foot, louver doors , top hood/open top , MH lighting, 1 HP chiller , foot stool 














Cheers

----------


## coolbucks

Hi Neon,

Wow, impressive with your tank set up equipments... Are u using rain bar to distribute the co2 output? able to share how u distribute even the co2... me tot of using 2260 for my 6ft tank as well...

----------


## neon

> Hi Neon,
> 
> Wow, impressive with your tank set up equipments... Are u using rain bar to distribute the co2 output? able to share how u distribute even the co2... me tot of using 2260 for my 6ft tank as well...


I have changed my 2260 (1260 pump) to 2262 (1262 pump 3400L/h), as I have splitted the water return back to 2 sides of the tank. 

Connection is 2262 --> chiller --> left side + right side

I had tried numerous method of diffusing/reacting CO2, so far the method work best for me now in my dense planted tank is using 2 power head/rainbars at the back with 2 different co2 injection into the power heads - 1 of them ~1000L/h and other one ~800l/h , so that they are able to chop,dispense mini tiny CO2 toward the front side . The CO2 mist rises very slowly. You won't notice if u r standing 2 ft away from the tank. Pearling within 2 hours thru out whole day. I am doing EI now.

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## XnSdVd

neon.. you've created a monster of a tank. A beautiful monster mind you  :Grin:  Great job!  :Well done:   :Well done:   :Well done:  

vratenza:

My advice would be to look at everyone else's setups first. You've got guys like solonavi who're on the high end with plants galore and super-buget setups like mine which can take up to 6 months to mature(and are slow to recover from accidents) Find out which tank suits your needs better. Though from my experience, it's better to be excessive and not need it than need something and not have it. PMed you on more details. That and try to think everything through twice before you do it. a mistake would be very costly and hard to rectify.

If you're looking for a cheap cabinet that works, contact [email protected]
They made my tank shelf. From what I can tell it's a metal frame covered with plywood. Cheap too. $480 for a shelf. Around $600 for a cabinet i'd imagine.

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## solonavi

> Hi JC, you are in arofanatics as well right? i think i saw your postings there. Actually my list of equipments and stuff are partly inspired by you  Just that i decided to go the non-sump route


Oh ya. So its u.  :Grin:  





> Can check with you, for your tank, how many bags of jbl base fert and lapis sand did you use in the end? I am calculating the amount to buy..... Spoken to NA Mr Chan, he told me I only need 5 bags of each......but i am not sure how deep will the amount he recommended come up to....
> How deep is your final suubstrate? how deep is your base fert alone?


Mr. Chan recommended me 6 pack of lapis and 5 pack of JBL. I have about 4-5" of total substrate. Base fert is ~1" thick.




> I noticed you are using centre glass bracing even though you have euro bracing already. Yours is made by Gerald a.k.a Tank_maker right? He told me for my 6x2x2 i definitely have to use a centre glass brace also.... but i am trying to get it done without it leh......


Ya. Its done by Gerald. U can see his pix on my blog.  :Razz: 
Check out this link and it will helps u to determine the min thickness need for ur desired tank size. Point to note is that this is calculated without euro-bracing. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/tec...lassthickness/




> Is yours chengai or kamphor structure?


To be honest, I'm not sure.  :Shocked:  




> Also, I noticed that you have a "dark spot" in the top centre of the tank when lights are on..... is it due to the joint at the 2 sets of lights resting on the wooden centre brace of the hood cover or isit contributed by the GLASS centre brace below as well? The reason i ask is because i am currently deciding on the best combination of lighting option for my tank........ hopefully i can have a solution that will eliminate these "blindspots"....


The blind spot is created by the 2 separate fixtures of T5. One is 2ft & the other 3ft. I'm not so concern of that because the blind spot is only at the top surface area which will hardly have any plants. Directly below that blind spot is actually pretty bright due to the crisscrossing of lights rays from both fixtures.

Cheers
JC

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## ranmasatome

WAh!! you guys are so good at helping..haha..

Personally..if this was my tank... i would..

1) get 2 3ft tanks instead of 1 6ft.... or 2 4ft tanks.. cos that gives me more variability in scaping and keeping fish.. i can have more scapes and more fish while still keep scapes nice and neat. or even 2 different scapes that i like..

2) BUT since its not my tank!! GO 6FT!!hahaha.. i just thought it would be a good consideration since you're already getting 2 of everything..for this 6ft.

3) filterwise.. i would go with a eheim pro3... that ends the story right there. 

4) lights i love T5 HO. Make sure you get good reflectors.. they factor in ALOT ALOT to the amount of light that gets into your tank..big difference!! For a 2 ft in height tank..i feel they are more than enough.. also if you're sloping the back gravel then the plants are nearer to the lights anyway..
T5s are also cool... both in terms of heat dissipation and looks. Ask anyone that has switched from MH to T5s.. their chiller works WAAAAY less..i think nickys sugestion of 2 sets of 3ft lights to run the entire length is good.

5) gravel..i would go ADA personally.. its a bit ex and makes water a little acidic.. but i like acidic water personally because of the fish i keep.. and frankly..i'm sick and tired of lapis.. it is also light..

6)above equpiment is expensive....i know.. but the way i see how this work is better start out good then to be half - #$%.. like they say in the army..

7) i actually liek that centre bracing on tanks.. its a very convenient thing to have when it comes to pruning plants, taking photos of your tanks for competiton (Flash placement areas) and sometimes i use it to put my liqiudferts while dosing.. if you dont want that bracing at all.. you can actually consider eurobracing the bottom of your tank... that way.. no top bracing is seen and when you put the gravel down.. you also dont see the bottom bracing liao loh.. so looks like braceless tank.. :Smile:

----------


## Nicky

> 3) filterwise.. i would go with a eheim pro3... that ends the story right there.


But why har??

Why would anyone buy one filter when for the same price they can buy 2? Plus having 2 obviously reduced the risk of total breakdown of filtration system, right?
And pro3 is such a huge monster to store away.

I tell you what I think Pro3 is designed for.. it is for people who keep dragon or rays or some big fishes.

----------


## benny

> But why har??
> 
> Why would anyone buy one filter when for the same price they can buy 2? Plus having 2 obviously reduced the risk of total breakdown of filtration system, right?
> And pro3 is such a huge monster to store away.
> 
> I tell you what I think Pro3 is designed for.. it is for people who keep dragon or rays or some big fishes.



I think the attraction of the Eheim Pro III is in the ease of maintenance. Did any of you guys catch the Aquarama 2005 demonstration? Compared to the 2260, a world of difference. Compared to the Pro II, it's still an improvement.

Cheers,

----------


## |squee|

I'd like to suggest the use of Lapis sand and avoidance of ADA Aquasoil if you expect to do lots of rescaping in the future. ADA Aquasoil isn't meant for this purpose; it breaks down easily after some time. 

However, ADA Aquasoil provides better root formation than Lapis sand. It's also a nutritive soil, wheras Lapis is just inert sand. 

Lapis is good for rescaping and cheapness, it's easy to plant in it (don't have to be scared about turning into mud). 

Think about it  :Wink:

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## ranmasatome

Terence is right... you need to be sure of your aquascape and sure about the planning stages if you plan on Aquasoil.. so that you can scape it once and get what you want.. its not a scape as you go kind of soil.. but..if you dont mind water clodyness for a bit..i think its okay.

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## Wackytpt

Just to add on, Aquasoil will disintergrate in a few years time.

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## vratenza

> Sorry don't know to post small thumb-size photo here.
> 
> My 6' x2x2 tank (12mm thickness, black silicon) , euro bracing top and bottom, pre-drilled holes for filter hoses
> 
> Placement of 2262 , co2 tank , pvc piping , full chengai cabinet flat foot, louver doors , top hood/open top , MH lighting, 1 HP chiller , foot stool


Hi Neon! thanks for the pictures! very impressive setup!
a few qns:
1) noticed u have top & bottom eurobracing. It seem to allow u to go w/o the center brace. btw urs is 12mm rite? can pm me ur tank maker and price? 
2) What r the pvc pipes 
for? how do they run? Don't ur tank go to ur filter then chiller than back to tank using the hoses? Pretty confused here.

----------


## vratenza

> neon.. you've created a monster of a tank. A beautiful monster mind you  Great job!    
> 
> vratenza:
> 
> My advice would be to look at everyone else's setups first. You've got guys like solonavi who're on the high end with plants galore and super-buget setups like mine which can take up to 6 months to mature(and are slow to recover from accidents) Find out which tank suits your needs better. Though from my experience, it's better to be excessive and not need it than need something and not have it. PMed you on more details. That and try to think everything through twice before you do it. a mistake would be very costly and hard to rectify.
> 
> If you're looking for a cheap cabinet that works, contact [email protected]
> They made my tank shelf. From what I can tell it's a metal frame covered with plywood. Cheap too. $480 for a shelf. Around $600 for a cabinet i'd imagine.


Metal frame? will rust in time or not? unless stainless steel loh. U have pic of ur tank shelf?
tks!

----------


## vratenza

> Personally..if this was my tank... i would..
> 
> 1) get 2 3ft tanks instead of 1 6ft.... or 2 4ft tanks.. cos that gives me more variability in scaping and keeping fish.. i can have more scapes and more fish while still keep scapes nice and neat. or even 2 different scapes that i like..
> 
> 5) gravel..i would go ADA personally.. its a bit ex and makes water a little acidic.. but i like acidic water personally because of the fish i keep.. and frankly..i'm sick and tired of lapis.. it is also light..
> 
> 7) i actually liek that centre bracing on tanks.. its a very convenient thing to have when it comes to pruning plants, taking photos of your tanks for competiton (Flash placement areas) and sometimes i use it to put my liqiudferts while dosing.. if you dont want that bracing at all.. you can actually consider eurobracing the bottom of your tank... that way.. no top bracing is seen and when you put the gravel down.. you also dont see the bottom bracing liao loh.. so looks like braceless tank..


hehe....one of the reason for 6ft is to have a grand center piece in the living rm which 2x 4 ft cannot achieve :Smile: 

seem like ADA Aquasoil cannot take much rescaping which i intend to meddle frequently....whats the fun of planted tank if we just trim/fert/stare at it after the initial setup?

i am considering ur suggestion of top/bottom eurobracing.... seem like good idea! hope the tank maker can do it!

----------


## ranmasatome

i think you can meddle lah..it just takes a gentler touch and not as much meddling..

----------


## StanChung

really good ideas...stealing some ideas...hehe. still considering 70w mh over t5...headscratching...
 :Confused:

----------


## vratenza

hi Neon! still waiting for your reply on my queries about ur setup! :Grin:

----------


## neon

> Hi Neon! thanks for the pictures! very impressive setup!
> a few qns:
> 1) noticed u have top & bottom eurobracing. It seem to allow u to go w/o the center brace. btw urs is 12mm rite? can pm me ur tank maker and price? 
> 2) What r the pvc pipes 
> for? how do they run? Don't ur tank go to ur filter then chiller than back to tank using the hoses? Pretty confused here.


The tank maker is Lim64.

My piping, EOS on both side. Each side has 3 holes and PVC pipes come thru the EOS and up. Then join other hose from the tank.

So , I have connected into the tank :
- 2 overflow holes (left and right) inside EOS for any overflow case out to toilet. So no worry if topping up water and go to sleep - no flooding .
- 2 water outlet suction (left and right) from the tank into the carnister. The same piping control by ball valve can be used to discharge water to toilet also during weekly WC.
- 2 outlet return to tank (left and right) : from my carnister --> chiller --> 2 outlet return.
Below shows the old design on the setup, you get the idea :

----------


## coolbucks

hi neon,

is the ehiem 2260 have two inlet and 1 outlet?tot of using it in my 6ft tank too

----------


## vratenza

> The tank maker is Lim64.
> 
> My piping, EOS on both side. Each side has 3 holes and PVC pipes come thru the EOS and up. Then join other hose from the tank.
> 
> So , I have connected into the tank :
> - 2 overflow holes (left and right) inside EOS for any overflow case out to toilet. So no worry if topping up water and go to sleep - no flooding .
> - 2 water outlet suction (left and right) from the tank into the carnister. The same piping control by ball valve can be used to discharge water to toilet also during weekly WC.
> - 2 outlet return to tank (left and right) : from my carnister --> chiller --> 2 outlet return.
> Below shows the old design on the setup, you get the idea :


Wow! great idea there!The beauty of it is the neatness and functionality..... Based on your concept, i am thinking of having small EOS on both left and right..... instead of 3 holes, i will have 2 holes......from the 2 holes, the inlet and outlet to each eheim 2028 on both sides........ of coz i will have some ballvalves between the filter outlet and the co2 reactor/chiller.... here i can connect a hose to be lead to the toilet everytime i want to do WC.... the pumping of the filter will help me pump out the water to be changed......

reason for the difference is that i cannot have the direct drainage to the toilet from the overflow asmy tank is situated a distance from the toiket.....

If i may request for some pictures of the top of the EOS on each side to have an idea on how the hoses connect to the PVC piping from the top....... wonder how to position the rainbar etc....

Thanks! :Grin:

----------


## neon

> Wow! great idea there!The beauty of it is the neatness and functionality..... Based on your concept, i am thinking of having small EOS on both left and right..... instead of 3 holes, i will have 2 holes......from the 2 holes, the inlet and outlet to each eheim 2028 on both sides........ of coz i will have some ballvalves between the filter outlet and the co2 reactor/chiller.... here i can connect a hose to be lead to the toilet everytime i want to do WC.... the pumping of the filter will help me pump out the water to be changed......
> 
> reason for the difference is that i cannot have the direct drainage to the toilet from the overflow asmy tank is situated a distance from the toiket.....
> 
> If i may request for some pictures of the top of the EOS on each side to have an idea on how the hoses connect to the PVC piping from the top....... wonder how to position the rainbar etc....
> 
> Thanks!


You have to sacrifice the space for each EOS, especially like my. Instead of using a squish shape, I did a triangular shape. My intend of making this tank is allowed many for myself in the event I want to switch to sump like high bioload setup or marine setup. 

so think carefully how you intend to do water change : fill up and discharge.
Suggestion :
a) your suction from tank go thru the PVC, make provision (like mine) with ball valve join to another PVC pipe to discharge water. You can figure out using some fixture on the PVC pipe and quick connect on a long hose for connect.
b) same concept, your water return to tank , make provision (like mine) with ball valve join to another PVC pipe to allow water top up where water will flow thru the same PVC subsequently and up the EOS back to the tank. You can figure out using some fixture on the PVC pipe and quick connect on a long hose for connect.
c) Make sure every input or output have a ball valve.

----------


## neon

> hi neon,
> 
> is the ehiem 2260 have two inlet and 1 outlet?tot of using it in my 6ft tank too


1 outlet which the pump itself which suck the water out from the canister. The pump does not enough strength to suck water from the tank into canister, if the canister water level does not rise up to the pump itself. 

The beauty with pipe and ball valve is that water will always maintain in the pVC pipe no matter what you did to the canister or the hose in tank, priming always will be no issue and the water remains in the PVC will have enough volume to suck the water out from the tank into the canister.

With the ball valve on each side of the PVC for the water return to the tank, I can now control the flow rate of each side upto my preference.

Cheers

----------


## coolbucks

wow, ic bro neon... Something that the using of tube or pvc pipes must have water that being fill up before starting the canister, right?

----------


## neon

> wow, ic bro neon... Something that the using of tube or pvc pipes must have water that being fill up before starting the canister, right?


That situation was only happened during the very first time the tank and pipe were being pumped for the very very first instance. I ensured the 2260 is filled with water during those initial day . 

Now the PVC pipes are always filled with water, in and out all the time. The 3rd pvc for the overflow to toilet , either due to my ignorance or purposefully to skim the top , I let it overflow for a few minutes , which helps to remove the stagnant water in the EOS.

Cheers

----------


## coolbucks

ic ic..very impressive sys set up...  :Smile:

----------


## ranmasatome

> Just to add on, Aquasoil will disintergrate in a few years time.


Wah!! disappearing gravel!! what a break through!!

----------


## vratenza

i am more or less firm on getting 2x2028 for my tank based on the suggestion by the bros here.

but i am also gettting the following which will need to be hooked to the in/out of the filters.... so it is important to know how best to connect them to maximize the efficiency.....
1) surface skimmer
2) external co2 reactor connected to Co2 set
3) chiller

also. is 2028 enough?

----------


## mordrake

> i am more or less firm on getting 2x2028 for my tank based on the suggestion by the bros here.
> 
> but i am also gettting the following which will need to be hooked to the in/out of the filters.... so it is important to know how best to connect them to maximize the efficiency.....
> 1) surface skimmer
> 2) external co2 reactor connected to Co2 set
> 3) chiller
> 
> also. is 2028 enough?


imho, i suggest you get a separate pump for your co2 reactor.
by the time the flow goes through the 2028 & chiller to your reactor, the flowrate is cut back quite alot.

also for the 2028 u use for the chiller, use a sponge to cover the pipe inlet as a pre-filter or else you'll find that there'll be a builtup of dirt/gunk in your chiller. somehow some stuff will still be present in the water after it passes through the 2028 filtration to the chiller. not too bad if the chiller is serviced regularly while on warranty but after that.... a big headache. so the 2028 will then effectively become a dedicated biofilter that's cleaned only once every few months or none at all.

2nd 2028 will be your mechanical filter, maintained monthly. can be hooked up to the surface skimmer.

----------


## vratenza

> imho, i suggest you get a separate pump for your co2 reactor.
> by the time the flow goes through the 2028 & chiller to your reactor, the flowrate is cut back quite alot.


you mean a separate tube to draw water from the tank thru the pump, thru the co2 reactor and back to tank via another tube?




> also for the 2028 u use for the chiller, use a sponge to cover the pipe inlet as a pre-filter or else you'll find that there'll be a builtup of dirt/gunk in your chiller. somehow some stuff will still be present in the water after it passes through the 2028 filtration to the chiller. not too bad if the chiller is serviced regularly while on warranty but after that.... a big headache. so the 2028 will then effectively become a dedicated biofilter that's cleaned only once every few months or none at all.


 thks for sharing the experience & tip! wouldn't the sponge slow the flow even more?




> 2nd 2028 will be your mechanical filter, maintained monthly. can be hooked up to the surface skimmer.


u mean for the 2nd 2028, the filter media will be more for mech filtratn eg. rock wool, sponge etc? 1st 2028 to have ceramic rings, bioball ?

----------


## neon

suggest you use a powerhead as a reactor to suck in Co2 and the output to a DIY rainbar . Put the rainbar at the back of the tank and spray toward the front. Get a powerhead at least 800L/h . Best is 1200L/h.

Cheers

----------


## vratenza

> suggest you use a powerhead as a reactor to suck in Co2 and the output to a DIY rainbar . Put the rainbar at the back of the tank and spray toward the front. Get a powerhead at least 800L/h . Best is 1200L/h.
> 
> Cheers



hmm.... the tank water is drawn from the filter outlet?. Which brand and model of the powerhead will you recommend? What sort of diameter am i supposed to use?
 :Grin:

----------


## vratenza

Guys, I am customing my tank soon. Will like to find out abit more so that the dimensions will be ok....

1) for 2028, what are the sizes (diameter) of both the in and outflow tubes used? How long do they come in the box?

2) can 2X 3ft Aquamarin T5 set be arranged in series resting on the eurobracing and the centre bracing? (ie. within the perimeter of the glass tank) Or will i have to rest them on the hood skirting? (ie. outside the perimeter of the glass tank?)

3) where can i buy the PVC tubings, tube holders and ballvalves? Intending to DIY my own water drainage system.

4) what are the diameter of the PVC tubings i should be using? Will it cause a drop in pressure if it is of diffrent size from the tubings used for the filters?

Tks! :Grin:

----------


## vratenza

Erm.... anyone? Kinda urgent here cos trying to finalise the tank plan the next 2 days and my tank maker can get to work! :Grin:

----------


## BFG

1) Eheim hose is 16/22mm. Length wise is maybe 2.5ft or 3ft x2 hose.

2) Dunno as Aquamarin T5 lightset are new in the market. Someone with a 3ft Aquamarin lightset might take the measurement down and post it here.

3)Can't help you there. I have zero experience with PVC. But I know there are 3 types of pvc standard. Not sure if the 3 of them are compatible with each other.

4) Not sure too. As above.

----------


## vratenza

thanks! finally some response from a kind soul!
BTW, 16/22 means 16mm out and 22mm in?

----------


## Nicky

16/22 mm means internal diameter of the hose is 16mm and the external diameter is 22mm. Both the inlet and outlet uses the same hose.

Jurong Industrial Services Center sells all kind of pipings and valves that you can ever imagine.

----------


## Nicky

> 2) can 2X 3ft Aquamarin T5 set be arranged in series resting on the eurobracing and the centre bracing? (ie. within the perimeter of the glass tank) Or will i have to rest them on the hood skirting? (ie. outside the perimeter of the glass tank?)


I am not related to Aquamarin but I know their light maker can custom build stands for you. They custom made my suspension support 2 times for a small fee.
Since you have yet to order your tank and cabinet, you are free to have any design you want to. Have it sorted out on paper and work with the various people to produce what you like to have. Enjoy..

----------


## joe

Looks like you're not ready for the big project ... no offences but this is a big tank and u better make sure all things are taken care of else you will have big headaches  :Smug:   :Smug:

----------


## Nicky

> 4) what are the diameter of the PVC tubings i should be using? Will it cause a drop in pressure if it is of diffrent size from the tubings used for the filters?


What exactly you need the PVC for? For draining out water or to connect to the Eheim hose?

I thought one of the forumer showed the pic of his setup in this thread? Can ask to see his setup in person so that you have some idea of what to do.
Whatever it is I think it is best to bring along a small length of the hose when you are hunting for those PVC pipings.

----------


## vratenza

> 16/22 mm means internal diameter of the hose is 16mm and the external diameter is 22mm. Both the inlet and outlet uses the same hose.
> 
> Jurong Industrial Services Center sells all kind of pipings and valves that you can ever imagine.



where is this JISC located? maybe pop by when i am free to see see look look to have an idea on what is available. :Smile:

----------


## vratenza

> Looks like you're not ready for the big project ... no offences but this is a big tank and u better make sure all things are taken care of else you will have big headaches


yah... i know... big project :Knockout:  .... that's why asking lotsa questions and browsing alot of old threads and looking at lots of setup....... alot of the questions i ask are specific to the setup i am aiming for. 

I guess everyone will advise me to go for 2 ft first..... but i feel that even for people upgrading from 2 to 6ft will have questions and doubts too as the setup is totally different interms of pipings, style, maintenance and the equipment used....

I am looking to minimise my boo boo rather than perfect setup at 1st go...... :Grin:

----------


## vratenza

> What exactly you need the PVC for? For draining out water or to connect to the Eheim hose?
> 
> I thought one of the forumer showed the pic of his setup in this thread? Can ask to see his setup in person so that you have some idea of what to do.
> Whatever it is I think it is best to bring along a small length of the hose when you are hunting for those PVC pipings.


Actually going to modify his idea abit......

tank-->filter intake tube (soft) --->from the back of the tank -->enter the hole at back of cabinet---> connect to series of PVC piping with T-joints and ballvalves fixed to the inner cabinet structure----> flexible hose to the filter canister. just reverse for the return flow.

The idea of the PVC pipes is to allow me to connect quick connect/release hose to drain the water or to pump in the water from tap during water change.....

----------


## BFG

Vratenza, use the 'KISS' method in setting up a tank.

----------


## vratenza

> Vratenza, use the 'KISS' method in setting up a tank.


keep it short and simple? :Laughing:  

hmmm... i guess i should just set up the basic hoses and filter, light and gravel first.... later on when comfortable then maybe think about DIY some piping to make life abit simpler :Grin:

----------


## BFG

> keep it short and simple? 
> 
> hmmm... i guess i should just set up the basic hoses and filter, light and gravel first.... later on when comfortable then maybe think about DIY some piping to make life abit simpler



Nope, it stand for KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. Btw, me not saying you stupid, just that it is the phrase. Just keep everything simple and tidy. PVC need to be glued together and if you did not glue it properly, it will leak. And when that happen, you either pull apart the piping or cut away and use another fresh pvc piping. Kind of complicated right?

----------


## Nicky

> Actually going to modify his idea abit......
> 
> tank-->filter intake tube (soft) --->from the back of the tank -->enter the hole at back of cabinet---> connect to series of PVC piping with T-joints and ballvalves fixed to the inner cabinet structure----> flexible hose to the filter canister. just reverse for the return flow.
> 
> The idea of the PVC pipes is to allow me to connect quick connect/release hose to drain the water or to pump in the water from tap during water change.....


If that's what you are trying to do, then it is really not that complex... I can think of 2 methods.. but it is quite difficult to describe. Let me try..

Method 1 - simple to setup but a little more work in the long run:
Buy those eheim 'quick-connector' (this is not the name but donno what's the name).. those that people use to connect to their chiller so that they can easily unhook the chiller for servicing. Connect this connector to either inlet or outlet hose of the filter. When you want to change water, just disconnect this from the filter and re-connect the end,from the tank, to a flexible pipe that is leading to a lower point, such as a floor trap. Your flexible pipe need the 'male' part of the 'quick-connector'.
When you want to refill the water, just retrieve the end from the floor-trap and connect to the tap or the pump of your reserve tank. Your pump need to be connected to a female-part of the 'quick-connector'.
Using this method you have to ensure that whichever ends of the filter you use, the 'intake' to the floor-trap must be sufficient low enough in the tank.


Method 2 - 
Using your method.. Have the outlet from your tank join to a PVC pipes that split into 3 ends of PVC pipes. Connect a ball valve to each of these 3 ends. First end connect to the filter. The 2nd end connect to a drain pipe. The 3rd one connect to the pump that runs your reserve tank or your connect to your tap.
Normal Day-to-day running: Open only the ball valve of the filter.
Drain Water: Open only the ball valve of the 2nd end.
Pump back water: Open only the ball valve of the 3rd end.


Re. the location of the place, look up streetdirectory.com. It is just 1 min off AYE.

Hope this helps..

----------


## solonavi

Imho, if u know what u wan to use for ur PVC piping, get the tank maker to do all the piping 4 u. Best PVC avail now seems to be from GF piping.

Else if u stay need the east and wan to DIY, go to Ubi area where there are quite a few hardware shop. U can also visit Hai Cheong Plastics Pte Ltd @ Paya Ubi Ind Pk.

Cheers
JC

----------


## vratenza

> Nope, it stand for KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. Btw, me not saying you stupid, just that it is the phrase. Just keep everything simple and tidy. PVC need to be glued together and if you did not glue it properly, it will leak. And when that happen, you either pull apart the piping or cut away and use another fresh pvc piping. Kind of complicated right?


fully agree with you! :Grin:

----------


## vratenza

> If that's what you are trying to do, then it is really not that complex... I can think of 2 methods.. but it is quite difficult to describe. Let me try..
> 
> Method 1 - simple to setup but a little more work in the long run:
> Buy those eheim 'quick-connector' (this is not the name but donno what's the name).. those that people use to connect to their chiller so that they can easily unhook the chiller for servicing. Connect this connector to either inlet or outlet hose of the filter. When you want to change water, just disconnect this from the filter and re-connect the end,from the tank, to a flexible pipe that is leading to a lower point, such as a floor trap. Your flexible pipe need the 'male' part of the 'quick-connector'.
> When you want to refill the water, just retrieve the end from the floor-trap and connect to the tap or the pump of your reserve tank. Your pump need to be connected to a female-part of the 'quick-connector'.
> Using this method you have to ensure that whichever ends of the filter you use, the 'intake' to the floor-trap must be sufficient low enough in the tank.
> 
> 
> Method 2 - 
> ...


I guess i will go shopping around for the pipes and ballvlaves soon... if the way they are connected is too difficult for my puny brain, then i can still fall back on your method one which is a very good and simple idea actually! :Grin:  

BTW what is the recommended power of the powehead to pump water from the reserve tank all the way up to the tank ~2m height minimum?

----------


## vratenza

> Imho, if u know what u wan to use for ur PVC piping, get the tank maker to do all the piping 4 u. Best PVC avail now seems to be from GF piping.
> 
> Else if u stay need the east and wan to DIY, go to Ubi area where there are quite a few hardware shop. U can also visit Hai Cheong Plastics Pte Ltd @ Paya Ubi Ind Pk.
> 
> Cheers
> JC


Wat's GF piping?
Issit a kind of material?
thnks! :Grin:

----------


## cks

> Wat's GF piping?
> Issit a kind of material?
> thnks!



GF is Georg Fischer 
www.piping.georgfischer.com

----------


## BFG

GF pvc are branded pvc. Quality is good especially with their valves and such.

----------


## vratenza

Can this GF piping be bought at this shop?
--> Hai Cheong Plastics Pte Ltd @ Paya Ubi Ind Pk

Or any other shops?
How about shops in Kelantan Lane?

----------


## solonavi

U should be able to get it from Hai Cheong. Give them a call b4 hand to check.

Note: Gd things dun come cheap.  :Smile: 

JC

----------


## Nicky

> BTW what is the recommended power of the powehead to pump water from the reserve tank all the way up to the tank ~2m height minimum?


If I were you I will just go for those cheap and big Atman (or equivalent China-made) pump. 2m may be a high head to overcome but if I'm not wrong you need the pump only to push water from reserve tank into the main tank during water change right? Most of these pumps have their specs (head vs flowrate) printed on the packaging box.

Or you can also get the 3000+ l/hr Eheim pump someone was trying to sell recently in AQ. I'm sure the 2m obstacle is not a problem for that pump.

----------


## Nicky

> Note: Gd things dun come cheap. 
> JC


If money is not an issue, go for the best.

Alternative you can always fall back on plumber-tape, PVC-glue and Epoxy Glue..

I can tell you those smelly Epoxy glue really pack alot of punch.. when I was doing my DIY reactor I have to use a small drill bit to drill a big round hole.. and obviously the resultant round holes are not too round. I use those Epoxy Glue on the gaps and when it dries up, boy.. no matter how I abuse the connection it will just not give way.. it stays water tight all the way!

----------


## solonavi

I'll highly recommend getting a gd pump for 2 main reasons, failure rate and heat induce. Eheim 1262 definitely can do the job and the piece zenscape is selling is a gd price, imo.

Cheers
JC

----------


## Nicky

> I'll highly recommend getting a gd pump for 2 main reasons, failure rate and heat induce. Eheim 1262 definitely can do the job and the piece zenscape is selling is a gd price, imo.
> 
> Cheers
> JC


Agree with you, 100%, if price meets budget.
For his case (not that he has no budget) since he is only using to pump water back during water change, then heat may not be a big issue.
Plus those China-made pump is really cheap.. spoilt, just throw away and buy another one.. you can have at least 6 replacement for the price of 1 eheim..
Have 3 for standby at any time, hehe..

But that said, again, I will go for the Eheim pump if I got the money.

----------


## spinex

> I'll highly recommend getting a gd pump for 2 main reasons, failure rate and heat induce. Eheim 1262 definitely can do the job and the piece zenscape is selling is a gd price, imo.
> 
> Cheers
> JC


Where is Zenscape ? By the way for pump you people could try a Eheim alike Made in Germany pump call Aquabee. I saw it in Boon Keng Bioplast and AquaMarine in Jalan Kayu. 

Boon Keng don't keep stock but Aquamarine do. They also provide 1 year warranty like Eheim (even design is same) and i like it because for the same wattage, it can pump more water.

I saw the smaller series of AquaBee and it was 16W or 18W but water output was 1800L/H but my Eheim 1250 was running at 28W but output was only 1200L/H. They do have a 2400L/H or 3000L/H model.

Btw i not related to any of the shops above.

Btw found this local website which carry them

http://www.eaquanature.com/store/default.php?cPath=42

----------


## Nicky

> Where is Zenscape ? By the way for pump you people could try a Eheim alike Made in Germany pump call Aquabee. I saw it in Boon Keng Bioplast and AquaMarine in Jalan Kayu. 
> 
> Boon Keng don't keep stock but Aquamarine do. They also provide 1 year warranty like Eheim (even design is same) and i like it because for the same wattage, it can pump more water.
> 
> I saw the smaller series of AquaBee and it was 16W or 18W but water output was 1800L/H but my Eheim 1260 was running at 28W but output was only 1200L/H. They do have a 2400L/H or 3000L/H model.
> 
> Btw i not related to any of the shops above.
> 
> Btw found this local website which carry them
> ...


Yah.. when comes to pump, we planters have no match for those in the dark side.. they use pump to pump the hell out of their tank..
I think the marine folks are the best to tell us what is value-for-money pumps.

----------


## solonavi

Oh yes. Aquabee is also another pump I'll highly recommend. Ard the same pricing as eheim.

Cheers
JC

----------


## solonavi

For pressurized pump, iwaki is the champion. Resun is popular for pricing.

For normal pump, eheim & Aquabee has been the forerunner in our market.

Cheers
JC

----------


## spinex

> For pressurized pump, iwaki is the champion. Resun is popular for pricing.
> 
> For normal pump, eheim & Aquabee has been the forerunner in our market.
> 
> Cheers
> JC


AquaBee is much cheaper. You can compare AquaBee UP3000 (38W, 3000 l/h 
) pump to a Eheim 1260 (65W, 2400L/H).

Bioplast is using them for their biggest display tank a AquaBee. The boss say so far no problem he has been using for many years. They use it as external pump.

----------


## solonavi

> AquaBee is much cheaper. You can compare AquaBee UP3000 (38W, 3000 l/h 
> ) pump to a Eheim 1260 (65W, 2400L/H).
> 
> Bioplast is using them for their biggest display tank a AquaBee. The boss say so far no problem he has been using for many years. They use it as external pump.


Another point to note when buying external pump is the flowrate + distance. Some pumps' flowrate reduce dramatically when the distance is >2m.

Below are the flowrate of 3 main brands that I know and is reliable.
Iwaki (Pressurized Pump)


Eheim


Aqua Medic


I could not find Aquabee chart but I do know that many skimmer are using it as an external needlewheel pump. This is the best info that I can gather abt aquabee pump. http://www.aquabee-aquarientechnik.de/e_up3000.htm

Cheers
JC

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## StanChung

great discussion...if only can be condensed and made into a sticky complete with diagrams...
already very highly detailed with pump comparison charts etc. :Shocked:

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## vratenza

wow! thanks all for the very informative discussion into the pump! Looks like i am spoilt for choice! Guess i might try to go for the Aquabee 3000 model since i am getting my T5 lights from aquamarin soon! :Grin:  

BTW, really like the solite 4 series of t5 lights sold by Aquamarin.... slim profile and can flip-up to do tank maintenance somemore! :Grin:

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## vratenza

Went down to NA today........ wanted to buy the filters/gravels/Co2 set.... but Mr Chan not around...sigh.... the PRC-looking lady cannot make alot of decision... so in the end went back empty handed........but while i was there, found out the the Seachem Onyx sand down to the last 7 pack...... i need at least 8 packs to make 5cm of substrate.... sigh....

Called Mr Chan later in the evening and found that is the only last 7 pack he has at promotional prices.......... I guess i have to source for the extra 1-2 pack from elsewhere.... anyone seen Seachem Onyx sand other than at NA?

BTW, is it a good idea to put 3 bags of jbl base fert to cover the lower layer before dumping all 7 packs of onyx ontop??? Any pros and cons?

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## joe

errrrm vratenza as spoken on that day. i used 12 packs for my 5x2x2 tank ... so i tink u need much more than 8 packs  :Razz:   :Razz:

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## vratenza

> errrrm vratenza as spoken on that day. i used 12 packs for my 5x2x2 tank ... so i tink u need much more than 8 packs


thanks for the advice! 
in fact i went down to NA to buy up all 7 packs of onyx sand .... went down to KF to get their last 2 pack of onyx sand at the promo price (very cheap!) .... then decided to get 4 packs of onyx (gravel) to fill the bottom.... also i think it will improve the aeration of the roots? so now total of 13 packs ...hope it will be enuff....  :Smile:

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## sage08

vra, can u take some pics of the stuffs that u bought as you go along? This will help newbies who wish to embark on such projects. I mean, some of the things tht u guys mentioned here like pvc pipes, ballv.., etc, i've not even heard of before this thread.

BTW, do u stay in an HDB? Make sure that the weight of your tank is not above the maximum allowable or else if your downstairs neighbour's ceiling leak or crack, they will go after you. 

Also, for your tank design, measurement is very important esp the cabinets and the hood. It must be able to fit all the equipments with holes for electric cables etc. So, i suppose it's good that you buy the equipment first b4 the design.. just sharing my experience....

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## vratenza

> vra, can u take some pics of the stuffs that u bought as you go along? This will help newbies who wish to embark on such projects. I mean, some of the things tht u guys mentioned here like pvc pipes, ballv.., etc, i've not even heard of before this thread.


Hmm thinking of doing that... will post up the picts once my cabinet arrive :Grin:  I did benefit from the guys who blogged their entire setup experiences :Grin:  

BTW... any easy to use bloggin site to reccomend?




> BTW, do u stay in an HDB? Make sure that the weight of your tank is not above the maximum allowable or else if your downstairs neighbour's ceiling leak or crack, they will go after you.


 I stay in exec condo..... hmmm din know of such issue..... should be ok right?




> Also, for your tank design, measurement is very important esp the cabinets and the hood. It must be able to fit all the equipments with holes for electric cables etc. So, i suppose it's good that you buy the equipment first b4 the design.. just sharing my experience....


 Yah, that's one of the reason i bot them early... so that i can ask the cabinet maker to make some holes for wires and tubes etc.......My cabinet maker is kind enuff to allow me to setup the tank with substrate and water first before committing to the hood design....etc how much to cover from the top etc :Grin:

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## sage08

> I stay in exec condo..... hmmm din know of such issue..... should be ok right?


not sure abt exec condo specs but you will normally find it in the handbook whn u purchased the unit. A six footer can easilly weight more than 1 tonne, if you add the substrate.

Anyway, i went for the big bang too by getting a four footer.. hee, not as big as yours lah.. i'm sure you are pretty excited as i was then and you'll leran along the way.. great project, keep us posted.  :Smile:

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## vratenza

Some of my equipments and stuff bought so far..... :Grin:  

2X 3 Ft T5 light sets (total 8X39w)



Co2 set with External reactor


Some of my Seachem Onyx... the rest in the storeroom :Smug:  


2X 2028


Resun C0500


Nice 3 ft DW from Bro Joe :Grin:

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## vratenza

Need help here.... as i was meddling with the equipments i bought, realised that the chiller's instruction is total crap and there is no instruction on how to connect the parts below.... can anyone advise?


Also, how do i connect my eheim 16/22 tubes to this chiller???? :Sad:  

Where can i buy more 16/22 tubes?

For the rainbar set from the 2028 set, we have to cut a small section of 16/22 tube to use as a connector for the rainbar and the hook right? :Confused:

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## joe

got a pic of the light tubes and reflectors?

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## vratenza

not parabolic but highly polished mirrored surface.... :Grin:

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## ranmasatome

Yup.. i feel its a good compromise if you really dont like the DIY..

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## Goondoo

For the CO2, I suggest getting those CO2 splitter... you might want to split in into two different output as you tank is quite big.

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## vratenza

> For the CO2, I suggest getting those CO2 splitter... you might want to split in into two different output as you tank is quite big.


that will mean i must get another external reactor right? do you have a picture of this splitter u meantioned.... it should be attached after the bubble counter right? :Grin:

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## vratenza

> Need help here.... as i was meddling with the equipments i bought, realised that the chiller's instruction is total crap and there is no instruction on how to connect the parts below.... can anyone advise?
> 
> 
> Also, how do i connect my eheim 16/22 tubes to this chiller???? 
> 
> Where can i buy more 16/22 tubes?
> 
> For the rainbar set from the 2028 set, we have to cut a small section of 16/22 tube to use as a connector for the rainbar and the hook right?


Erm anyone? :Confused:

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## solonavi

> that will mean i must get another external reactor right? do you have a picture of this splitter u meantioned.... it should be attached after the bubble counter right?


Hi Bro, check this thread. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=11912

Cheers
JC

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## solonavi

Actually, r u able to squeeze the eheim hose to the black pipe?

Or maybe u wan to try this? Saw it in absolutereef. Pix is from Monster1975.


JC

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## Nicky

> that will mean i must get another external reactor right? do you have a picture of this splitter u meantioned.... it should be attached after the bubble counter right?


The CO2 splitter is attached to your regulator. NA sells the splitter (around $20+). For a small fee, Chan can fit the splitter for you. Or you can also fixed yourself; unscrew the solenoid from the bottom of the regulator (you can see a big screw under the black moveable part). After that unscrew and remove the needle valve. Put some plumber tape onto the thread of the splitter. Attached by screwing the splitter onto the regulator, then fix back the solenoid. That's it.


As for the 16/22mm hose, many LFS has it. NA and FuWo has it for sure.

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## Goondoo

> The CO2 splitter is attached to your regulator. NA sells the splitter (around $20+). For a small fee, Chan can fit the splitter for you. Or you can also fixed yourself; unscrew the solenoid from the bottom of the regulator (you can see a big screw under the black moveable part). After that unscrew and remove the needle valve. Put some plumber tape onto the thread of the splitter. Attached by screwing the splitter onto the regulator, then fix back the solenoid. That's it.
> 
> 
> As for the 16/22mm hose, many LFS has it. NA and FuWo has it for sure.


I would recommend you getting the better ones, the thicker and stiffer ones.... I remember I got mine from Aquamarine (dun ask me the price)  :Smile:

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## vratenza

Went down to Hai Cheong today....this is what i bought.... but i have doubts about the flow rate cos the part that connects to the 16/22 hose is smaller than 16mm diameter..... so i think will slow the rate even further?


Just fitted it on to test test... did not glue yet..... do not want to commit until i find the best solution....

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## vratenza

> Actually, r u able to squeeze the eheim hose to the black pipe?
> 
> Or maybe u wan to try this? Saw it in absolutereef. Pix is from Monster1975.
> 
> 
> JC


wow... very neat but alot of bends..... will definitely decrease the water pressure by quite abit.... as of now i suspect my 2028 may not be able to power the water through the chiller....

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## vratenza

My cabinet delivered!





Noticed that i have positioned the C0500 to have the hot air directed towards the louvred side panel....... i guess this solved the issue of heat dispersion :Grin:  

Now just need to find a suitable pump to run my chiller! :Grin:

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## vratenza

Just realised I made a booboo.... Bought the 7 socket extension without thinking about the timer..... so now with theBen timer plug in, the neighbouring socket cannot be used unless i use it for 2 pin plugs.... :Sad:  Somemore i am intending to use at leaset 2-3 timers....

Is it common? or is there another brand of socket extension that has wider spacing or a smaller timer?

Thanks!

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## AquaObsession

Have same problem with my extension oso  :Sad:

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## StanChung

oo, looks very posh and neat...love it. wish list sometime this year... :Grin:

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## vratenza

> Have same problem with my extension oso


hmm, do u have a solution? or just live with it..?

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## vratenza

> oo, looks very posh and neat...love it. wish list sometime this year...


thanks bro!

so u r gonna setup ur own 6 ft this yr?

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## BFG

You could just use 2 timers. 1 timer to control the front portion and the other to control the rear portion of the light set. Simple right? Remember KISS.

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## vratenza

> You could just use 2 timers. 1 timer to control the front portion and the other to control the rear portion of the light set. Simple right? Remember KISS.



ok, that's wat i intend to do for the lights..... half the lights turn on 2 hrs earlier then the other half and will also switch off 2 hrs earlier than the other... in between prob about 6 hrs with full set switched on..... What do u think?

But i also want to have another timer for the solenoid to turn on the co2 only during light hours.... :Grin:

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## joe

KISS ... use 2 timers ... one light will be on for whole photoperiod, the other will be on only for a few hours ... use the CO2 together with the light which is on throughout ... does not make a difference and save money no need buy additional timer  :Smile:   :Smile:

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## vratenza

> KISS ... use 2 timers ... one light will be on for whole photoperiod, the other will be on only for a few hours ... use the CO2 together with the light which is on throughout ... does not make a difference and save money no need buy additional timer


bro joe, actually tot abt that method u mentioned, but i am concern about the differential wear rate of the tubes.... :Smile:

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## StanChung

> thanks bro!
> 
> so u r gonna setup ur own 6 ft this yr?


err... :Roll Eyes:  

actually got a 5 footer i'd like to roll out for ADA...heee...still WIP...

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## vratenza

> err... 
> 
> actually got a 5 footer i'd like to roll out for ADA...heee...still WIP...


wow! share some picts on ur setup leh... can learn from u also :Grin:

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## vratenza

Dear all, with advise from the bros here i have decided to set up a closed loop chiller circuit.

Tank --> 16mm hose ---> Eheim 1260 (600+GPH) ---> 1 inch (or 26mm) hose --> C0500 ---> 1inch hose ---> tank

Few questions on this setup:
1) i think i need a filteration system before the water reach the pump chiller to prolong their service life..... do you think a sponge filter at the intake will work? Any other solution? Is there any passive external canister filter (without powerhead) that i can connect to before the pump?

2) how to best return the chilled water to the tank....single return or split return? rainbar? i think i need to reduce the flow rate by quite alot so as not to disturb the plants/substrate....

Thanks! :Grin:

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## neon

If I am not wrong , you intended to connect :
a) lighting
b) 2 x 2028 Eheim
c) 1 pump for your chiller
d) chiller

You sure want to load all your gears onto the same power source ? One power trip, all will fail immediately !

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## mordrake

1) i think i need a filteration system before the water reach the pump chiller to prolong their service life..... do you think a sponge filter at the intake will work? Any other solution? Is there any passive external canister filter (without powerhead) that i can connect to before the pump?

attach a sponge over the inlet will do. those big black sponge filter sponges works great.

2) how to best return the chilled water to the tank....single return or split return? rainbar? i think i need to reduce the flow rate by quite alot so as not to disturb the plants/substrate....

use a rainbar to "cut" down on the flowrate. if still too high, direct the holes agst the back wall.


went to check out your blog. your cabinet is reall y well done.
mind pm me Thia's contact? in case i need something done up  :Very Happy:

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## vratenza

> If I am not wrong , you intended to connect :
> a) lighting
> b) 2 x 2028 Eheim
> c) 1 pump for your chiller
> d) chiller
> 
> You sure want to load all your gears onto the same power source ? One power trip, all will fail immediately !



no choice cos that is the only poweroutlet in the vincinity :Sad:  
That's why must gaet good quality equipments to make sure they last... :Smile:

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## vratenza

> 1) i think i need a filteration system before the water reach the pump chiller to prolong their service life..... do you think a sponge filter at the intake will work? Any other solution? Is there any passive external canister filter (without powerhead) that i can connect to before the pump?
> 
> attach a sponge over the inlet will do. those big black sponge filter sponges works great.
> 
> 2) how to best return the chilled water to the tank....single return or split return? rainbar? i think i need to reduce the flow rate by quite alot so as not to disturb the plants/substrate....
> 
> use a rainbar to "cut" down on the flowrate. if still too high, direct the holes agst the back wall.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice... will go shopping for it soon!

PMed you Thia's number :Grin:

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## StanChung

> wow! share some picts on ur setup leh... can learn from u also


actually all the sifus already on you like bees on honey...mine is a very humble setup. no chiller or UVS...just a double teeny 12V fan keeping temp around 28.2 +-0.5

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## vratenza

Is this yours? If this is yours, you called this a humble setup???!?!?! :Razz:  

Well the US$200 prize is not that humble anyway...hahhaha

Really love your setup! Care to share whats the flora used? :Smile:

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## StanChung

well this is a 3X2X2 setup and yes it's yours truly's first foray into aquascaping competition.

but a 5ft or 6ft is a totally diff kettle of fish...eg should have thought of drilling hole for easy WC...[not that i do any for that matter!]

the plants are too many...more than 30 species. a deduction in score no doubt :Grin:  

i will list the main ones that you can see
E red rubin, uruguayensis
Downoi
Hottonia palustris
Glosso
Weeping moss
Bolbitis heudeloti sp
Sagittaria subulata
assorted crypts, wendtii's parva, etc. 
Aponogeton longiplumulosus, A crispus

if you have any out of topic questions please pm me...

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## BFG

Vratenza, are you in good relation with your neighbour? If you are, you might need a spare roll of extension wire, just in case if your home power got trip out for an extended time.

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## vratenza

hahaha....good idea there....but doubt my neighdour will be unaffected if my unit trip (ie cannot untrip the box).... any way how long can the plants last w/o chiller & filtratn?
 :Smile:

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## mordrake

plants should be fine for a few hours without chiller n filtration.
since your lights n filters will be out so temp shouldn't be a problem.
the beneficial bacteria in the filters will most probably be badly hit/wiped out.
not too bad cos in a mature tank, most of the bb is in tank (substrate, wood, tank surface etc).
but if the bioload is high, might have problems with sensitive fish.

other than that, don't worry too much about it. you'll be home fast enough to save the day  :Very Happy:

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## vratenza

hmm good analysis! :Smile:  

Anyway, conditions in larger tanks tend to be more stable over time so i guess that further reduce the risk...... as for bioload, intending to have the following....

1) Cherry barbs X20
2) Cardinal tetra X50
3) Oto X 6
4) Yamato X 10
5) Rock shrimps X 4
6) Cory X 10
7) ultimtely once the tank is super stabilised and water conditions are good a few months down the road, will try my hand on a fw juvenile discus :Smile:

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## vratenza

hehe.... you are a cory fan right? :Grin:  where can i find the various variations of the corys?

Oh.... forgot... must also add in 6X hillstream loach.......can clear algae on the glass walls and will not grow too big.... :Smug:

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## ranmasatome

they aren too effective just so you know...on top of that.. they are rather sensitive.

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## StanChung

yup and they need fast moving water...like their name suggests...

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## mordrake

6 ft tank so little fish?  :Very Happy: 

what i have in brackets 

1) Cherry barbs X20 (6)
2) Cardinal tetra X50 (90+ jumbo)
3) Oto X 6 (1, started with 10)
4) Yamato X 10 (none, started with 40 n 100 malayans... exp discus/apisto snack?)
5) Rock shrimps X 4 (0)
6) Cory X 10 (30++)
7) ultimtely once the tank is super stabilised and water conditions are good a few months down the road, will try my hand on a fw juvenile discus (9 adult discus - 8 wilds n 1 SS)


extras

6 rams
2 torpedo
2 choc gouramis
1 6inch bristlenose 
10 rummies

apistos sold or up lorry  :Sad: 

of course, fishes added in stages.... discus only added after 3 months.
for the cardinals, get from GAN the small ones. they grow real fast!

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## vratenza

> 6 ft tank so little fish? 
> 
> what i have in brackets 
> 
> 1) Cherry barbs X20 (6)
> 2) Cardinal tetra X50 (90+ jumbo)
> 3) Oto X 6 (1, started with 10)
> 4) Yamato X 10 (none, started with 40 n 100 malayans... exp discus/apisto snack?)
> 5) Rock shrimps X 4 (0)
> ...


Wow!... actually i am thinking of limiting the species to let the splendence of the cardinals schooling stand out :Grin:  After talking to Mr Gan, reinforced that idea even more :Wink:  

Regarding the cardinal tetras, i was told by Mr Gan that if they come from different rivers/tributaries, that will determine their eventual sizes.... so if you buy medium cardinals, it will never achieve the same size as a jumbo grade.... :Grin:

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## vratenza

amazing.... just tested the pH and KH with the new test pen and chemical kit i bought......
pH 6.1
KH 5
calculated my Co2= 119 ppm!!! :Shocked:  

better go turn down my co2 injection......  :Confused:  

But my fishes are all doing ok leh..... quite active too.... :Confused:  

BTW.... i find it difficulty to measure the co2 rate in terms of 3-4 bubbles per min... cos they are so bloody fast.... how do you guys do it?? :Huh?:

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## ranmasatome

if your fishes are okay then dont turn the co2 down. If its really at 119ppm then your fishes will ahve problems... the real issue i believe is that your water oh is not only affected by the co2 alone. So calculation will be a little more complex for you..
3-4bps is still quite easy to count...

Anyway.. any recent pics of the tank?

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## vratenza

oh ok... think i will observe for a while first then.... so far no casualties from my fishes....

Could the error be due to my seachem onyx sand? heard it will raise the kh artificially...

picts? will come soon... cos i just spent last weekend doing up the left half of my tank.......somehow it is easier to split it in half for tank of this size..... i guess partly i am damn shag after planting the hair grass......another reason being the DW i originally planned for the other half was found to be leaking tannin.... so no choice gotta soak it outside with daily water changes... hopefully can clear up the tannin soon..... :Grin:

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## joe

peektures peektures pls!!!  :Smile:   :Smile:  ... now u know why i dun have foreground ... planting will make me throw away the tank hahhahahaa

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## BFG

I agree! See this.

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## StanChung

it may mean one or both your test kits is giving a false reading...
test kits are known to cause fish death because the aquarist believes it 100%.
don't like test kits is because...it fails, some brands are totally unreliable. check out PFK's website for some test kit reviews.

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## grey_fox

:Razz:  take PH/KH readings from cheap kits with a pinch of salt. Its not an exact reading of the KH/PH levels for sure. So kits will give you radical readings.

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## vratenza

i am using ph pen... so should be relatively accurate...
Kh i am using SERA brand one... the one with yellow box? 

But anyway, been reading around... apparenty kh readings can be pushed up by alot of other factors and dissolved minerals.....somemore i am using seachem onynx..... claims to push up the kh... but dunno how much it pushes.....

so i can't really calculate my co2 ppm......will just have to do it using critters as gauge..... any other ways? :Smile:

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## vratenza

update!
From this........................


To this..............................




comments are greatly appreciated!
 :Smile:  
Sorry for the poor pictures... will take another set tonite when there is less reflection!

Still waiting for most of the plants to grow in  :Grin:

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## Justikanz

Very nice! The 'paths' would be great if you have cories...  :Smile:

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## mordrake

looking good... how about more crypts and some jave ferns too?  :Very Happy:

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## grey_fox

Nice nice!! 

Good job dude! Btw, if your imagination is as warped as mine at times, the driftwood at the left looks like in the shape of Godzilla  :Razz:

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## black17

Phwooar!  :Shocked:   :Shocked:  It's an experience to come so far. Nice.

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## vratenza

> Very nice! The 'paths' would be great if you have cories...


Thanks! I do have cories.... in fact.... 2 albino, 2 bronze and 3 leopard :Grin:  Thinking of adding more when the tank stabilize further :Wink:  

The cories just love to dig their "nose" into the bare onyx sand along the path.... some of them even developed the habit of "resting" themselves on the patch of hairgrass that was bent under their weight :Smile:  ...looking pretty comfortable :Grin:

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## vratenza

> looking good... how about more crypts and some jave ferns too?


hahah exactly what i have in mind! There is actually a thin elongated DW tied with narrow leaf java ferns plantlets behind the DW on the right side.....waiting patiently for them to grow big and tall to cover the right in/out tubes :Grin:  

I do have some c. balanse and china type long thin crypt behind the right DW as well.... but they arre doing the slow melting routine..... waiting for them to grow.....

Anyway, what other crypts do u recommend and where should i place them? :Grin:  

Thanks!

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## vratenza

> Nice nice!! 
> 
> Good job dude! Btw, if your imagination is as warped as mine at times, the driftwood at the left looks like in the shape of Godzilla



heheh I did imagine the DW looks like godzilla prowling the forest when i was positioning the DW(esp before the moss is tied  :Grin:  )
 :Laughing:

----------

