# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Anabantoids >  Anyone keeping parosphromenus?

## gbaiao

Hi everyone!

I recently got my first paros: 6 P. deissneri and 2 P. ornaticauda.
They seem to be doing fine and I´m pretty sure the ornaticauda are male and female. So far I have no clues about the deissneri sexes.

They are housed in separated tanks with about 2" of water, a piece of driftwood, java moss and some ceramic pipes. Temp about 22C and PH 6,7 aproximately.

What is the best food for them??? Neither species seems to like microworms...the deissneri eat BBS very well but I´m not so sure about the ornaticauda...

Any suggestion about any changes I should make? Do I have to separate a pair for them to spawn? Also, I´ve read somewhere that I should add almond leaves the tank...is that true? 

Thanks!

Guilherme

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## stormhawk

Hi Guilherme, nice species you've chosen, especially P. ornaticauda. Its a small species with a nice body pattern. Both species prefer lower pH waters, around pH 5 to 5.5. They're quite delicate to start with but easily handled if the water quality is right for them. The addition of oak leaves is recommended but the leaves will rot over a few weeks so replacing them may be a hassle. Filtering their water through peat will help in making the environment better for them. They will feed on BBS like you have discovered and foods like daphnia and tubifex are good for these small fish.

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## gbaiao

Thanks for the reply!

I don´t have easy access to oak leaves anyway....I´ve read something about indian almond leaves, would that have the same effects?

Can I use acids (like vinegar) to lower the PH? I know it must be done with care, but I´ve used it before succesfully with killies...I´m just wondering if it could harm the paros??

Regards

Guilherme

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## stormhawk

Yup those Indian Almond leaves will do the trick as well. Does this tree grow in Brazil or is there a similar tree native to Brazil? Its possible to use cider vinegar to lower the pH but as always, use with care since Parosphromenus aren't the toughest of fish to start with. In fact I found them to be the most delicate of the fish I previously kept, and this includes the chocolate gourami as well.

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## stormhawk

Oh yes I forgot to add, there's some expert anabantoid keepers in this forum but they seem to have gone quiet. Many of them would tell you what you need to know, especially with Parosphromenus.

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## budak

With due respect to KL, I would recommend the Freshwater/Brackish Fish forum section of www.petfrd.com for probably the most authoritative discussions on anabantoids (particularly wild bettas and paros)..... the mod there (Bagrus Dude) is an icthyologist (and hobbyist) specialising in SEA fishes, and many posters there breed the fishes.

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## MrTree

A dead _Parosphromenus ornaticauda_ fry. Red since young.  :Razz: 



Most of the so called "P. deissneri" on trade or information on net are not real deissneri. They are undescribed species. 

The real P. deissneri is from Pulau Bangka. It looks quite similar to P. bintan in this picture, which also occurs in Pulau Bangka. Easiest way(for hobbyists like us) to tell them apart is the tail. P.deissneri is pin-tail while P.bintan is rounded tail. 



These two species are currently in the trade(Mixed together in same shippment) under one commercial name of Parosphromenus sp "KAMIHATA". 

Cheers,

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## gbaiao

There are indian almond trees growing all around the city, so it should be easy to get some leaves. I guess they adapt well to our climate.

Budak: Thanks for the link!

Mr Tree: 
I guess my fish might not be P deissneri, I have no experience in IDing paros...I´ll wait until they colour up a little more and then try to id them. 

Was that ornaticauda fry born in your tank? If so, what was your setup?

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## TyroneGenade

Zhou, you have a very nice webapge. Lots of good quality shots. I've put you link up on my site next my measily Betta splendens...

I've very jelous of the varieity of fish Betta etc you have acces to. :Crying:  

bye

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## stormhawk

Tyrone, maybe its time you plan on moving to Singapore.  :Laughing:  Then maybe you'll get to have some nice Bettas to add to your collection. There's alot of beautiful wild betta species that just came in to Singapore recently. You should take a look at the _Betta macrostoma_ had you been in Singapore now. :wink:

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## TyroneGenade

_B. macrostoma_ is one of the _Betta_ species I most want.  :Crying:

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## stormhawk

Tyrone, its one of the most expensive Betta around too. A local guy in Singapore has just succeeded in spawning his pair. Male's mouthbrooding now according to what I just read.  :Smile: 

The best place if you're looking for wild Bettas in Europe would either be Germany or the UK. The AAGB may have what you want.

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## MrTree

gbaiao,

Yeah, that was my first success in paro species. The set up was pretty standard labyrinth fish breeding set up. Very shy fish, in fact, it was the most shy paro I ever had. With regular feeding, then I found the fries. 

Tyrone,

Thanks for the link up. Singapore is probably the best place to keep fish, the price of the fish here are cheaper compare to neighbour developing countries, and of course lots of variety. Yet, some people still complaining fish too expensive.  :Laughing:  

The macrostomas are now finally come to Singapore first before anywhere else.

Cheers,

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## Slaigar

> Tyrone, maybe its time you plan on moving to Singapore.


Jianyang, I am starting to think you and Ron would be good realestate agents for Singapore. Attracting foreign hobbyists with these fish species (and the occasional plants)!  :Laughing:  

I remember reading through the Betta threads at Petfrd.com and they make me quite envious!

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## whuntley

> _B. macrostoma_ is one of the _Betta_ species I most want.


I have seen them several times and even turned them down when offered some. I actually think they are kind of ugly, compared to Licorice Gouramis and some of the other wild bettas. They are dramatically less pretty than even very common ones, like smaragdina and coccina, IMHO.

Uncle Herby (now prisoner X) did a truly fine job of hyping them as the "Brunei Beauty" etc., but they are a mean, ugly, predatory fish with a splash of tail color. Certainly not worth the US$600 and $800 that very sickly pairs were bringing here, a few years ago. They are the Rivulus of the Betta world. :wink:

It was as close as the wild bettas came to a "fad fish" and I'm personally delighted that that fad had no legs.

My opinion, and it is just mine, is that wild fish should be kept for their natural beauty, their interesting (even sometime bizarre) behaviour, their need for species preservation, and because we can learn something from them. To keep a fish because of a (probably untrue) rumor that the Sultan would behead any collector is not what I would consider a valid reason.

I respect the right of the people of Brunei, through their Sultan, to deal with their wildlife as they see fit. I certainly would not spend a dime on supporting the fad (i.e., encoraging collection), and, as I already said, even turned down an offer of free ones. That's just me. YMMV.

Wright

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## timebomb

Hey, fellas,

Is this a Licorice Gourami? I didn't want to show you my fish earlier because I don't know what I have  :Laughing: 



Loh K L

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## whuntley

> Hey, fellas,
> 
> Is this a Licorice Gourami? I didn't want to show you my fish earlier because I don't know what I have 
> 
> Loh K L


I don't think so, KL. The _Parosphromenus nagyi_ turns nearly black with irridescent blue dorsal and anal fin bands, when in breeding colors. The female has two dark bands that go away when she is in courtship (yellow) coloring. Baensch (Vol. 3) calls them Nagy's licorice gourami. He lists a couple of others in Vol. 2, but they do not look very much like your fish.

Common names are the pits when it comes to genera with a lot of similar species.

Interestingly, he shows a fish that looks just about like yours as 
_Paro. deissneri_ but it does not have a spike tail. He doesn't call it a licorice gourami, tho.

I had a question about Chocolate Gouramis that I wanted to ask, but think I should start a new thread on that.

Wright

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## stormhawk

Yes KL the fish in your picture is a licorice gourami. Which species it is, I'm not sure. The common name "licorice gourami" applies to ALL _Parosphromenus_ species, regardless of their colour or finnage. Its only when we get to species level that their names take on a more personified form such as Nagy's Licorice Gourami for _P. nagyi_or Deissner's Licorice Gourami in the case for _P. deissneri_. For simplicity we refer to all as either Paros or Licorice Gouramis, regardless of the species in question.

Depending on the source where your fish came from, only the supplier can tell you what species it is. Even then, some have been wrongly identified before so it could almost be any species. We rely more on colour, finnage and body markings to tell apart the species. FYI, there's several undescribed species in this genus.

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## timebomb

Thanks for your answers, Wright and Jianyang. Life on earth is filled with such varieties, it's never easy to identify species correctly, I suppose. I think I got another few Licorice Gouramies in my tank, if that's their common name. I'll see if I can get some good pics tomorrow.

Loh K L

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## MrTree

That's an undescribed species. It looks like the species with the invoice name of " _Parosphromenus_ sp "Blue Line", and it will stay unnamed for quite a long time I think.

Cheers,

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## RonWill

Hi folks,
Just wanted to know if there's any way to encourage these Paros to hide less and be more showy?

I've gotten curious and recently acquired 3 pairs of wild-caught _Parosphromenus ornaticauda_ (no thanks to this thread  :Laughing:  ) 

These 'Redtail licorice gourami' were supposedly from Borneo, West Kalimantan.

The female was more photo-friendly


Shooting the male was another story, hiding within the folds of ketapang leaves.


Extremely un-cooperative, but nice finnage colors nonetheless.


Any ideas how I can get better shots of them (without the fright colors?), less the tannic-stained water.

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## stormhawk

Feeding time. Lure them out with live foods. They'll come into shooting distance in a short while. If you're lucky, the males will do some displaying with each other. My two Parosphromenus are always out in the open even in bright light. :wink:

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## RonWill

Dear all,
I was wondering about something. If the _Parosphromenus_ maxs out at 3cm and remains relatively shy, how good are my chances of them being killie tankmates for the less pugnacious species, like _splendopleure_?

_Pseudomugil_ are showy but it'd be nice if I can get the Paros to spawn too. Any tips from the more experienced breeders?

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## MrTree

This species is probably the most shy species available in Singapore. They are shy in the nature else they would all ended up in the snakehead's stomach already.

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## RonWill

Thanks Zhou Hang for confirming that they are shy. Anything I can do to bring them out into the open? The males are really good lookers! and what about the possibility of spawning them?

I must admit that working with the killies kept me very busy and have not done much research on the paros. Any further information you can provide will be appreciated. TIA.

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## stormhawk

Ron, I could not get a proper file on breeding _Paro. ornaticauda_ but this is a spawning excerpt on _Paro. paludicola_. Translated from Dutch using Altavista's online translator. Website hosted by the Dutch Labyrinth Fishes Association - NVL.

Breeding _Parosphromenus paludicola_

I have a rather old book on labyrinth fishes given to me by a cousin. In it there are details on spawning _Paro. filamentosus_, a larger species in the genus. There is another book by Tetra publications, one written by Horst Linke on the subject and also includes several species descriptions, including _Paro. ornaticauda_.

Locally, I believe Mr Tree was the first to spawn this species. :wink:

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## stormhawk

Ron, these Parosphromenus species would be good tankmates for smaller Simpsonichthys species like fulminantis and magnificus. These do not bother the Parosphromenus. I do not trust Aphyosemions with any fish for that matter. Saw my aquarium strain A. striatum male biting the tail of one of my small Boraras merah a few months back. Not a nice sight.

SPLs would be fine provided they're just as shy and retiring. Perhaps the XIP would be great tankmates considering how sedentary that species is.  :Laughing:

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## MrTree

I was lucky. Very lucky in fact. Apisto approach would do well for these little fella or wild bettas. They built the nest under a small pc of driftwood. I think raising the fry is a bigger challenge..I failed. 

Petfrd has a article on breeding _P.paludicola_  written by our friend, Zahar from Terengganu. 

Horst Linke has a nice picture of _P.ornaticauda_, it was used on the description paper too. 

Cheers,

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## stormhawk

ZH, its no challenge if you have access to multitudes of live foods like Ronnie here. :wink: 

Ron, yes they do breed like apistos. A cave-like structure with a lower water level will help. They are very shy and retiring species in nature.

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## RonWill

> They built the nest under a small pc of driftwood. I think raising the fry is a bigger challenge..I failed


 Zhou Hang, thanks for the tip. I'll go rig up a low tank and see how things go. Getting fishes to spawn is a challenge, but raising super tiny fry to adulthood is helluva satisfying! Attempt the paros again and if you need paramecium, let me know.

I'll search for the _P. paludicola_ and see what I can apply from there.

Jian Yang, the 'multitudes of live foods' isn't gonna help when there is no brood to feed.

Understanding what makes these little buggers tick and being able to induce spawning is only the first step.

Raising fry, as with everything else, is also subjected to Murphy's law. Sometimes, just when we get them right, we can also easily lose an entire batch.

What differentiate a competent breeder from an 'accidental' breeder, is a 'never say die' attitude. You fail, you try again.

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## stormhawk

Ron, what makes these Paros tick is acidic water. You don't need ketapang leaves to keep them alive in the tank. My pair of mismatched (assorted) Parosphromenus are doing very well in my 3ft planted tank using ADA Amazonia as the gravel bed. pH of the water is around 6.4

The two have been rather flirtatious but I don't intend to see them breed. Keeping them in a small 1foot tank with a low level of water plus some hideaways like what you did with the simplex will work. Just ensure that they get soft acidic water. 

With ADA Aquasoil I don't get the stained water effect that is really a pain when it comes to seeing your fish in the open. They love all sorts of live foods, especially daphnia and BBS. My pair of Paros have taken to feeding on sinking tablets and Sera Microgran together with the Corydoras in the same tank. :wink: 

They get the occasional treat of tubifex, bbs and daphnia (when I get them that is) and the male Paros is showing wonderful colouration. The female has always remained drab though although she's one fat chick.  :Laughing:  

As for "no brood to feed", why don't we all send our fry to you for raising.  :Twisted Evil:

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## stormhawk

Ron, pictures of your P. ornaticauda that I shot last night. The male's picture is real blurry but at least I can make out the bugger.  :Laughing:

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