# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  jacian's diary of keeping Apistogramma

## jacian

Decided to get my hands to the apisto again. I got myself a 3-tier 2ft rack for the apisto. My plan is to keep it simple, nothing fantasy and do it slowly.
Currently only the middle tier is occupied by a 2ft tank, partitioned into 3. Depending on how things go, I may add another such tank or 2 1-ft cubes for the top and bottom tier.

I got my first pair of apisto, agassizii flamenco from NKS in Jan. Sad to say that one turns out to be a sneaker male.

Acquired 2 agassizii female from C328 in Feb, not sure exactly what agassizii is it.

Below is tank that house the 2 breeding pairs.


Tank : Customised 2ft tank from NA
Substrate : ADA Africana 
Filtration : Sponge filter
PH : 5.5
WC : 50% weekly, direct from tap with Nutafin Aquaplus
Food : Tetrabit complete.

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## jacian

7 Mar : back from oversea trip and found that one of the pair had spawned. The fries are already in wriggler stage. The female is quite aggressive towards the male and I decided to remove the male from the tank.

Below is the female guarding the fries.


A close-up of the female

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## jacian

10 Mar : the first day the mother bring the fries out for a swim

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## yaya

Nice female you got.. She is damn yellowish. You will have a successful spawn for this unknown agassizii. Any picture for the male?

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## jacian

11 Mar : Found that the other pair has spawned as well. The mother must be very good in hiding the fries as the fries are already free swimming when I discovered them.

Free swimming fries


Swimming toward their mum


Bought the Artemia Hatchery Dish and start hatching bbs for the fries.

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## Wackytpt

Interested to add more species  :Razz:

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## jacian

> Nice female you got.. She is damn yellowish. You will have a successful spawn for this unknown agassizii. Any picture for the male?


Below is the picture for the male,

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## leeruisheng

If the female locality is unknown then it will interesting to see what they'll grow up to be.

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## wks

Most likely the female A agassizii come from farms.

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## stormhawk

> [/IMG]
> 
> A close-up of the female


Jacian, I am curious. This female looks different from the other female you have. The other one has a solid black middle bar running from the eye to the tail end, whereas this female has a black dot in the middle of the body instead of the black bar.

From this link it seems your female with the dot is close to the Rio Madeira population:
http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/A-agassizii.html

That said, your male is beautiful, and congrats on twin spawns.  :Smile: 

By the way, what is the dimension of the tank? As in the partition size. I would like to know because I may order something like this later on. A rough cost estimate would be great too. If it's not comfortable to say on the forum, PM me the details.  :Wink:

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## jacian

I do not think one is able to differentiate the female locality by looking at it. The same female does display a solid black middle bar at times.

The tank size is 60cm x 30 cm x 35 cm(h) equally divided into 3.

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## monk2k

Wow, that works out to about only 4 gallons of water for each pair with water 80% filled. I am inspired to keep a pair of this wonderful fishes in my small tank. Good work bro, keep the pictures coming. :Laughing:

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## illumnae

:Shocked:  4 gallons a pair...does that mean my 25cm cube is actually suitable for an apisto pair too?

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## Milk

> 4 gallons a pair...does that mean my 25cm cube is actually suitable for an apisto pair too?


Well....no one actually says that it cannot be done...I think some of the members over here have proven that it can be done. :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 

Regards
Milk

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## illumnae

haha when i enquired some time last year i think i vaguely remember being told it's too small  :Grin:  ok now to seriously consider whether to get an apisto pair for that tank or to stick with wild bettas!

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## doubleace

Bro

Wont it be very small after dividing into 3 portions?

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## jacian

Yes, the partition is pretty small, about 4-5 gallon each. My initial plan is to use 5-plan M size tank, which is also about 5 gallon. However, as I am not able to squeeze 3 such tanks into a single tier, I drop the idea.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Hi may i ask how you partitioned the tank, as in you siliconed the partitons to the tank walls?

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## jacian

It is customized. Yes, the partitions are siliconed to the tank wall.

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## Zenislev

It is not small at all, i have the same setup too. Don't worry, apistos can still spawn.

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## jacian

The spawn of the first pair did not really make it. The fries seem weak and not feeding well. Only 4 survive till todate but they are very small compared to the other pair.

Anyway, the pair has another spawn and the female is guarding the eggs now.

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## jacian

The spawn of the second pair is doing very well. They are feeding well on the BBS and currently staying with both the parents.

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## trident

jacian,
Looks like the fries are doing very well.  :Well done:

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## Zenislev

Hope your fries are doing well bro.

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## jacian

The fries has been doing well so far, I have moved them to a 1ft cube tank. It is a bare tank with just a sponge filter. I have been feeding bbs once a day and the growth rate are so so only. They are now close to a month old and the average size is about 1 cm.

View of the tank


The fries

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## jacian

The agassizii alpha pair's second spawn did not make it again, they are now having their third spawn. After removing the fries, the beta pair are fast into action and is having their second spawn now.

Both females guarding their spawn.

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## Zenislev

Jacian, you mentioned that you're not sure about what kind of agassizi female you got right? So your fries most likely to be crossbreed ones i guess?

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## jacian

Yes, I am not able to get the flamenco female. The female I got should be the agassizii super-red.

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## Zenislev

Ok, that will be interesting. Cant wait to see how the fries look like when they're bigger.

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## jacian

Setting up another 2ft tank using acrlyic partition. Depending on the need, one can setup 2 or 3 partitions.

3 partitions


2 partitions

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## jacian

My completed setup.  :Razz:

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## Wackytpt

Hi,

Just a question? What did you used to secure the partition?

I am also comtemplatiing on how to separate my tanks to create extra apartment for apisto.

Cheers

PS: Mod, Time to split this thread  :Razz:

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## doubleace

Hi Wackytpt

You can use suction cup to hold the parition and use sponge cotton to block the gap..  :Smile:

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## trident

jacian,
wow very nice setup.
I was about to ask about the gap, but doubleace provided the answer.
Thanks.

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## jacian

As what doubleace has mentioned, it is done using the filter wool to fill up the gap. In fact, it is doubleace that taught me this.

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## Wackytpt

What filter or pump are you using to power up the filters?

How about water change?

Anyone keen in brain storming for a DIY drainage system and filter system for this type of setup?

Cheers

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## doubleace

> What filter or pump are you using to power up the filters?
> 
> How about water change?
> 
> Anyone keen in brain storming for a DIY drainage system and filter system for this type of setup?
> 
> Cheers


Normally you just use a power air pump (eg. HiBlow) to all the tanks attach with a sponge filter will do save cost somemore.  :Smile: 

For changing of water just use a long hose from the toilet and use the "air pushing" method so call old method also. Not sure what is the actual name.  :Grin:  To drain out the water from the tank and put in new water from the tap. Like this you dont have to carry pails of water to and fro from the toilet.  :Wink:

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## jacian

My new Ap. eremnopyge from Apistoworld HK

The male:




The female.





Can anyone confirm this is a female? I am afraid it turns out to be a sneaker male.

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## leeruisheng

Hi Jacian,

Happened to be from Andy's shipment? I also had him bought me a pair. 2nd shot of the male looks great. I was skeptical about the female too as I felt she/he is still juvenile to see any form of dimorphism.

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## jacian

My Ap. elizabethae pair from Apistoworld HK.



More pictures on the male

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## jacian

> Hi Jacian,
> 
> Happened to be from Andy's shipment? I also had him bought me a pair. 2nd shot of the male looks great. I was skeptical about the female too as I felt she/he is still juvenile to see any form of dimorphism.


Yes, I suppose it is the same shipment.  :Smile: 
Let us keep our finger crossed that it is a she not a he.  :Grin:  :Grin:

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## illumnae

i like the black fade at the edge of the caudal of your elizabethae jacian...very nice  :Smile:

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## jacian

Glad you like it, thanks.
Hopefully, they can spawn soon.  :Grin:

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## jacian

The first batch of agassizii frys is now about 2.5 months old now. They have been transfered to a 2ft tank now. Last count there are about 90+ of them.



Some close-up photos, the colour is showing up now.




Picture of their daddy.  :Razz:

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## jacian

Update photo of my Apistogramma eremnopyge. 

Male


Female


More photos and discussion on the sex identification can be located at this thread

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## jacian

My new Apistogramma sp. "Miua" I bought from Taiwan. Too bad I didnt not managed to get a pair but 2 males.  :Sad:

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## EvolutionZ

wow! 90 piece from a spawn? thats really alot!
nice strawberry and miua you have!

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## illumnae

you've got a lovely collection jacian

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## mobile2007

Wow, that's alot of fries and good collection of apisto. Saw biotope also selling apisto. "mius", maybe can get from them since you got a sneaker.

BTW, saw your previous post on partitioning the 2 ft tank. Do the LFS selling those acrylic isolator or i have to cut them myself?

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## oblivion

as far as i am aware, biotope's last batch of miua has no females......
unless there's a new batch that came in with females

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## mobile2007

ok, no wonder i only spotted a lone male inside the tank. I asked the old uncle, he told me the female is hiding behind the java fern.  :Smile:

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## jacian

> BTW, saw your previous post on partitioning the 2 ft tank. Do the LFS selling those acrylic isolator or i have to cut them myself?


I got my acrylic isolator from C328. I asked for the 1ft without any holes. Too bad they only have the transparent one.

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## Ah_ZhaN

Yo Jacian, the agassizii daddy looks good, where is it from ?

your Ap. sp "miua" looks great~! It's got orange/red face ~!!  :Surprised: 

cheers,
zhan

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## oblivion

> ok, no wonder i only spotted a lone male inside the tank. I asked the old uncle, he told me the female is hiding behind the java fern.


female?
i saw 2 males  :Razz: 
and the uncle himself confirmed it was 2 males left
there must be some confusion going on

anyone else can confirm?

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## Fei Miao

90 piece from a spawn...Going to be very busy :Smile:  Hope you bring up the spawn successfully.  :Smile:

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## sheng

In his 1st posting, he said this :
"I got my first pair of apisto, agassizii flamenco from NKS in Jan"

NKS = NEO KIM SUEY AQUARIUM
Blk 211, Hougang Street 21, #01-299, Singapore
Tel: 6288-1820





> Yo Jacian, the agassizii daddy looks good, where is it from ?
> 
> your Ap. sp "miua" looks great~! It's got orange/red face ~!! 
> 
> cheers,
> zhan

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## mobile2007

i think the uncle also not sure lah. I saw only 1 male , then i asked him whether there is a pair inside the tank. He also not very sure, look a while, then said " the female must be hiding behind the fern.." haha, probably he also can not find the other fish. :Smile: 






> female?
> i saw 2 males 
> and the uncle himself confirmed it was 2 males left
> there must be some confusion going on
> 
> anyone else can confirm?

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## oblivion

i wanted to get the miua but gave up as there were no females
waiting for their next batch to arrive.. hopefully with females  :Razz: 
anyway i need to setup a new tank for it also

now seeing jacian's specimens just made me more "gian" only  :Grin:

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## jacian

Some updates of the frys at 3 month old.

The alpha male （about 3.5 cm):




The rest of time during feeding time

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## mobile2007

Amazing sight of the feeding time. So many young fries.  :Grin:  

Wondering what are you going to do so many ?  :Shocked:

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## jacian

No plan on what to do with them yet but first I think I need to start doing some culling.  :Smile:

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## Zenislev

No plans to sell them?

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## wingwa77

Culling? Why not give them a chance, trust that alot of members are interested.

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## Panut

how do you intent to cull them? maybe we should start a brand new thread on the best way to cull fishes  :Roll Eyes:

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## exotic_idiot

> No plan on what to do with them yet but first I think I need to start doing some culling.


Hopes culling solve your problem.




> No plans to sell them?


If he wants to sell, he won't think of "culling"? Unless anybody wants to buy fries from him?




> Culling? Why not give them a chance, trust that alot of members are interested.


Yeah.. Why waste their life?

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## jacian

I am not culling them just to solve my problem. For the start, I am looking to cull only those with stunt growth. They are about only 1cm while the majority is already 3cm big. I believe the best is to put them down. For the rest, I will keep them for another month or two before deciding what to do next. In fact, I have just acquired another 2 2ft tanks to accommodate them.  :Opps: 

Trust me, I love every single one of them and will not be wasting their life just like that.  :Smile:

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## Quixotic

Discussion on the methods to cull fish is consolidated to this thread, http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=41831

Also, please kindly do not post to ask for fish in the Freshwater Fauna forums. This does not provide any added value to the husbandry of the fauna.

This can be done easily via private message (PM) instead. So please kindly use the PM functions for these private requests. 

If we were to have 100 posts of asking for fish in these threads, it will quickly degenerate the value of the threads (having to sift through 100 unnecessary posts).

Many thanks.  :Smile:

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## exotic_idiot

> I am not culling them just to solve my problem. For the start, I am looking to cull only those with stunt growth. They are about only 1cm while the majority is already 3cm big. I believe the best is to put them down. For the rest, I will keep them for another month or two before deciding what to do next. In fact, I have just acquired another 2 2ft tanks to accommodate them. 
> 
> Trust me, I love every single one of them and will not be wasting their life just like that.


Like me too.. Need alot of space if want to keep them all.. I too have some fishes also face same problem like yours.. I know betta face stunt growth but apisto too? :Shocked: 




> Discussion on the methods to cull fish is consolidated to this thread, http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=41831
> 
> Also, please kindly do not post to ask for fish in the Freshwater Fauna forums. This does not provide any added value to the husbandry of the fauna.
> 
> *This can be done easily via private message (PM) instead. So please kindly use the PM functions for these private requests.* 
> 
> *If we were to have 100 posts of asking for fish in these threads, it will quickly degenerate the value of the threads (having to sift through 100 unnecessary posts).*
> 
> Many thanks.


Ok noted, but let me know if you're deleting my post first before delete it, right? I will feel that i'm not welcome in the forum...
Thanks in advance.. :Laughing:

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## mobile2007

You might want to try this, separate those with slower growth to another tank. The larger fish tends to bully or snatch the food from those weaker one. This will create pressure for the weaker one. Also, they might be female fish.

If they still unable to grow, then you might want to consider culling them.

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## exotic_idiot

If those are the females.. If you really cull them so you will just left with males is it? I too got a feeling they are females... Females grow more slower and smaller in size. We'll just keep feeding them, when they truely grows up will keep whether is it worth culling them. But for my case, i still won't support the idea of *CULL..* 
Let's leave it to mother nature.. :Smile:

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## jacian

mobile2007, thanks for the suggestion, will definitely try that out.

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## jacian

My new Ap.bitaeniata "Careiro"

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## Zenislev

Very nice bitaeniata.  :Well done:

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## Panut

nice bitaeniata. where did you buy it from?

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## illumnae

brought in from taiwan? i've been hunting high and low for bitaeniata for ages with no luck  :Sad:

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## jacian

Yes, I got it from Taiwan. Hopefully it can survive well.

I got some Dicrossus filamentosa too but due to my bad handlings, I lost most of them.  :Crying:  :Crying:

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## illumnae

next time you got taiwan lobang can help me get?  :Grin:

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## jacian

Some updated pics,

My Apisto agassizii F1 alpha male





My Apisto sp. "Miua", quite big and fat now

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## jacian

Below is my new addition, want to guess what specimen is it?  :Grin: 



When flaring

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## Panut

Juvenile Apistogramma bitaeniata?

cheers,

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## Don90

Elizabethae isit? :Opps:

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## ccs

Is it Ap Brevis ??

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## Wackytpt

Jacian,

Can I guess? =p

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## leeruisheng

Breitbinden?

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## FishSoup

Hmm. juvenile Ap. uaupesi?

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## jacian

Nice try.  :Smug: 
CCS got it right, it is a _Ap. brevis_.

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## benetay

Apistogramma brevis is a very nice fish, it's colours are intense when condition. Thats a great buy!

Update us when it starts showing it's true colours.

Cheers!

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## jacian

First time trying out a macro lens.

The Apistogramma brevis "Uaupes", male


Same male when flaring


The bitaeniata female with the frys  :Smile:

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## exotic_idiot

Very nice picture taken for the bitaeniata female and the frys... Not easy to take fries pictures... So small..

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## jacian

More pictures of the bitaeniata female and the frys.

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## jacian

The bitaeniata male.

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## SCOPE

Congrates.....we still see more breeding soon.....

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## jacian

Recently decomm my 2 2ft racks and setup a new 4ft rack. It is a simple setup, I ordered a 4ft WI rack from Weeyang and fix up the lights and acrylic cover. 

The end product is as below

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## benetay

Looking great! Thanks for sharing with us. Shoot more.  :Laughing: 

Cheers!

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## yorky

Very nice. Envy your setup.

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## genes

Love both your new setup and your bitaeniata! All tanks do not share water?

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## illumnae

beautiful rack! makes me sooooo tempted to get one too!

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## CK Yeo

Wa! New LFS eh? Where is it?  :Grin: 

ck

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## jacian

Thanks for the compliment.
It is just a simple setup, individual tanks, no sharing of water, no drainage.

More photos to share on the setup

The rack before the side acrylic is being sticked on. I am using heavy duty double sided tape for the purpose.


Same for the front cover, using the double sided tape to secure the hinge.

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## exotic_idiot

Wow...!!! Very nice setup..!!! Really save a lot of space....
Is it 4ft x 1ft??? The tanks you also order from weeyang?
Must have costs a lot...

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## SCOPE

Wow, really professional setup....can't imagine if this is going to expand into a whole room...

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## exotic_idiot

If going to expand whole room... No need to retired, can go full time fish breeder :Grin:  
Then singapore won't short of apistogramma...!!! :Jump for joy:

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## SCOPE

in fact he is back to apisto again from retirement....hehe

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## jacian

> Wow...!!! Very nice setup..!!! Really save a lot of space....
> Is it 4ft x 1ft??? The tanks you also order from weeyang?
> Must have costs a lot...


Yes, it is a 4ft by 1ft. It will be better if it is 4ft by 1.5ft but I decided on 1ft so that I can use back my existing tanks. It is also because I got limited space.  :Smile:

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## tonicwater

Jacian's setup and fishes are really nice! Saw it first hand while getting some fishes from him. Very tempted to do a setup similar to his :P

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## exotic_idiot

> Jacian's setup and fishes are really nice! Saw it first hand while getting some fishes from him. Very tempted to do a setup similar to his :P


Me too.. But doesn't come cheap... 
I suggest you try it slowly first until you're confirm nobody object it first before trying it too..
Like maybe get a 3 tier 2ft stand not a bad idea too...
Not to discourage you to do it but just a kind advice in case, you regret it later on. :Smile:

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## craftsman

> Yes, it is a 4ft by 1ft. It will be better if it is 4ft by 1.5ft but I decided on 1ft so that I can use back my existing tanks. It is also because I got limited space.


Jacian, do you have to get HDB approval for your 3 tier rack? Uh.. or are you on landed property?  :Grin:

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## doubleace

erm.. i think seldom people get approval from HDB. Just put as long nothing happen can already.. :Grin:

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## craftsman

> erm.. i think seldom people get approval from HDB. Just put as long nothing happen can already..


 :Shocked:  wah.. power! Ha ha ha ha ha ha :Well done:

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## exotic_idiot

I saw once in a forumer's HDB flat, his house i think got 3 or more sets of 3 tier 4ft stand with tanks... He's breeding discus...! 
I was like WOWww...! :Shocked:

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## tonicwater

> erm.. i think seldom people get approval from HDB. Just put as long nothing happen can already..



Well... he live in a condo  :Grin:

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