# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Invertebrates >  Why are my crs dying?

## kiantkh

Hi all,

Summary: 
1) CRS keep dying in 8 month old tank while fire reds are doing ok. 
2) Ph creeping up though gh and kh is low. even africana cant seem to buffer it.

I have been keeping crs and fire red for a few months and they had been breeding well. However, my crs started dying on me in recent weeks. An average of 5 dead crs per week since more than 1 month ago.

I suspected that the rising ph was the cause so I bought ada africana to top up my 8 month old new amazonia.

Before topup tds= ~190, ph= ~7, gh= ~2, kh=~1
After topup tds= ~210, ph= ~6, gh=~1, kh= immeasurable with api test kit. dripped 10++ drops still orange.

The topup is done slowly such that ph decreased by ~0.3 per day. Fast forward to now, ph creep back up to 6.6. Crs continued to die at an alarming rate. All this while the fire reds were doing ok.

Any bros/sis know what is causing the crs deaths?

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## reiner09

Maybe you want to provide a full tank shot? could be due to many factors..

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## kiantkh

Pardon me for my lousy photo taking skills :Razz:

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## reiner09

From the shots you have provided... there are just mosses and driftwood etc. shouldn't have any problem with it ... but can you specify what kind of water you use for water change as well as the type of media you are using? 

The fluctuation of parameter might be one of the cause though.. you mentioned that you added new soil into the tank to buffer the ph, did you check for the ammonia level after adding? from how i see this is that the soil(uncycled) might contain a certain level ammonia and it might aggravate the situation.

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## Loudness

i see some tetra inside... try camp infront of your time, see if it attack your crs.

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## newlife

What filter media??
Do a check on your filter media....
Make sure non of it is Coral chips.

Secondly, make sure that your test kit is properly working and not expired or spoilt.
As there is a Shelf life for the test kit and you must keep them at a certain required temperature after opening.
All this will actually give you false reading on your test kit.

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## kiantkh

I do not have ammonia test kit. Therefore, i did not check ammonia values. Also, i read that africana contains minimal ammonia. Any cheap and good ammonia test kits to recommend?
Just to add on, there is something i do not understand. If ammonia is the cause, fire reds will probably suffer the same fate but it seems that all my casualties are crs? (maybe crs more sensitive to ammonia?) Then again, my crs all survived when i changed my soil to new amazonia 8 months ago. ( I change the soil of one tank and reused water, filter, and let another tank untouched.) 

As for filter media, I am using 3kg of biohome and 2liters of mr aqua CR.

Ph wise I am using a digital meter and cross refer with the paper type, drip type and my friend's digital meter. Shows similar results.
kH and gh tests kits have not expired yet and i tried to test it on tap water and it did change colour.

Oh I just remembered my ottos started to die one by one before soil topup. A few neon tetras also died. This is around the same time the crs started dying. All these incidents started after i gave away 20 neon tetras, maybe there are some corelations?

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## seudzar

Just from my own observation from my own tank. I faced the same situation before. Do you have a chiller for your tank? I find that your pH on a bit high side which you may need to lower it down to around 6.0 - 6.2. However, if the pH reduce to that value, your fire-red may suffers. I understand that many experts here are able to keep their fire-red at around 5.8-6.2 but mine keep on dying on me while my CRS breeds, however when i adjust my pH to 6.5-6.7 in 2 months span, my CRS died on me while my fire-red breeds. Also my tank is fan-cooled so it is not ideal for my tank to keep CRS. After my CRS died, i just keep fire-red. My tank other parameters are gH 4, kH unknown, temperature 28 at the time.

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## kiantkh

Yep I have a chiller running at 25deg.

I've also experienced the issue that fire reds will die if ph is lower than 6.

So am I right to say that according to your observations crs will start to die if ph is higher than 6.5, thus, it is better to keep the ph below 6.5 to ensure crs got no problem? 
I think this might just be the cause of my crs deaths, any experienced bros/sis care to comment?

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## seudzar

Yes. I believe CRSs would prefer pH6.4 and below based on my observation. But I believe other bros would have their other views.

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## HeMan

A few pointers:

1) you add in new soil into tank, these will cause ammonia spike.
2) you GH is low , you may want to increase it to 4-5.
3) fire red are more hardy than CRS, thats why you only see death on CRS.

Just my opinion.

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## cheetf

I think instead of guessing. Why don't you get an ammonia and a nitrate test kit. These are quite important tools for a shrimp keeper.

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## reiner09

> I think instead of guessing. Why don't you get an ammonia and a nitrate test kit. These are quite important tools for a shrimp keeper.


Yeah, you should probably get an ammonia test kit to be sure of it. 

I doubt the removal of 20 neon tetras will have any detrimental effects on the rest of community in the tank though.. and woops, i missed out that you written your gh is about 1-2 only..and that could be the reason for shrimps death but i don't really know if it affects the fishes...

and as what heman stated, it could be due to the fact that cherries/sakura etc is probably more hardy that's why they didn't die.

As for ph, i suggest you keep it stable at around 6.3-6.5 ..it should be okay. ph doesn't increase for no reason, when you do water change make sure the ph of the 'new' water is similar to that of the tank's water(use some ph down stuff) . If you did as told and the ph still goes up, there might be something that is causing this ph change either in your tank /canister.Even when the soil expires, it will probably just lose it's capabilty to buffer ph downwards but i doubt it will cause any rise in ph though...

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## kiantkh

Another casualty today. This is how the dead shrimp looks like. Any tell tale signs that something is wrong?


For water change, i will use dechlorinated tap water aged with sera peats to bring ph to ard 6.0. In my canister, i really only have biohome, mr aqua CR, self cut filter wool and shrimps. Then in my tank, only got ada soil, moss, mini pelia, fissidens, driftwoods and a handful of ocean free CR, a handful of bioballs and 2 air sponges. Really got no idea why my ph would keep climbing.

How can i bring up the GH? Do I use mosura mineral plus?

Lastly if I were to but ammonia and nitrate test kit, how would cost? I expect them to cost $20 each right? Including mineral plus I would be expected to spend $50 or so? ouchhhhhhhhhh! This hobby sure isn't pocket friendly for students =( Is C328 a good place to buy them?

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## HeMan

Your Issue is quite similar to mine last time. Few months ago after i inserted a piece of DW with moss, the next day i have few casualty, it like every few days i encounter like 5 - 8 casualty.

There can be lots of factors but not every other bros in AQ will be able to figure out for you. Its like playing a guessing game. 

IMO , i think its probably because of :

Ammonia Spike
Low GH of 2

Ammonia test kit for SERA is quite expensive. But after your tank is stable you wont really need it anymore.

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## rcw

> Another casualty today. This is how the dead shrimp looks like. Any tell tale signs that something is wrong?
> 
> 
> For water change, i will use dechlorinated tap water aged with sera peats to bring ph to ard 6.0. In my canister, i really only have biohome, mr aqua CR, self cut filter wool and shrimps. Then in my tank, only got ada soil, moss, mini pelia, fissidens, driftwoods and a handful of ocean free CR, a handful of bioballs and 2 air sponges. Really got no idea why my ph would keep climbing.
> 
> How can i bring up the GH? Do I use mosura mineral plus?
> 
> Lastly if I were to but ammonia and nitrate test kit, how would cost? I expect them to cost $20 each right? Including mineral plus I would be expected to spend $50 or so? ouchhhhhhhhhh! This hobby sure isn't pocket friendly for students =( Is C328 a good place to buy them?


bro where you stay?maybe I can help you test your water?I at sengkang.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

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## seudzar

Weird.. if you are using aged tap water... how do you get such a low gH value in your tank? Does the peats reduce gH? gH from my aged tap water is around 4.

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## kiantkh

> bro where you stay?maybe I can help you test your water?I at sengkang.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


Bro thanks for your offer but I stay at lakeside which is super far away.  :Smile:

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## kiantkh

The gh of my tapwater is around 2-3. Got no idea if hardness is reduced after aging. Didn't really cross my mind to test the aged water. Shall go and test soon.

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## shearerkk

Hi kiantkh....

My heart goes out to you..... for it took me almost 2 years, from 2010 till beginning of this year, for me to successful keep crs alive and breeding. I almost give up then.

My exprience is, 

1) TDS should not go beyond 150, if possible.
2) temp 24-25
3) Water change every week (aged)
4) PH - A must; 6.5-6.8... anything more will be unhealthy
5) Snails - yes snails is good for the tank enviroment... I make sure I have sulawesi snails in the tank

Hope my sharing helps for you, these are just my parameters, not standard answers.

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## kiantkh

Bro shearerkk, thanks for the encouragements!

Update: 

Bought ammonia test kit($25 ouch!) and my tank has 0mg/l. Assuming the test result is accurate, the issue is narrowed down to the ph, gh, tds and possibly kh(immeasurable).

Since I started seeing fire red casualties since yesterday coupled with the fact that i rarely see shrimplets nowadays, I suspect the main culprit to be the gh, kh or tds.

How can I safely increase GH in a shrimp tank?(I bought mineral plus but instruction say it will increase tds too. However, my tds is alr 230++, is it dangerous if i keep increasing it?)

Also, is it possible for gh to be lower than kh?

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## reiner09

> Bro shearerkk, thanks for the encouragements!
> 
> Update: 
> 
> Bought ammonia test kit($25 ouch!) and my tank has 0mg/l. Assuming the test result is accurate, the issue is narrowed down to the ph, gh, tds and possibly kh(immeasurable).
> 
> Since I started seeing fire red casualties since yesterday coupled with the fact that i rarely see shrimplets nowadays, I suspect the main culprit to be the gh, kh or tds.
> 
> How can I safely increase GH in a shrimp tank?(I bought mineral plus but instruction say it will increase tds too. However, my tds is alr 230++, is it dangerous if i keep increasing it?)
> ...


It is great that with the test kit ... you manage to narrow down from the amount of possibilities , okay now this is not too difficult.. kh shouldn't be much of a problem. your ph is slightly on the high side but it is still reasonable and now to alter the gh/tds. 1 cap full of mosura mineral plus(the 180ml one) into 5.5l of distilled water yields about 3gh with 65tds( I had it tested ).. So now my suggestions for you is to get distilled water to conduct water changes( with you doing your own calculations on how much you need) . If distilled water is beyond your budget, you can add mosura M + into your tap water then measure the gh( this time it should around 5-6( it has to be higher than original by quite abit,if you want to see results faster)) . tds wise ,i don't think there is much to worry since you are changing out the water ( and tds of tap-water should probably hover around 80-130 in Jurong area) so an addtion of 65 tds should give you 195 tds at most. The last step is to slowly drip this 'new' water into your tank ( what i did is to use a breeder box and set the drip rate to a very low output, so the water will drip and mix slowly over days)..you don't have to worry about any parameter shock to your fauna this way as sufficient time is given for them to adapt and also the fraction of the water changed in is small compared to the total volume of your tank. repeat the following steps over several water changes (once per week) you should see your gh going up gradually.

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## seudzar

Mosura has this "gH up". You can get it either from green chapter or c328 or y618.

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## reiner09

> Mosura has this "gH up". You can get it either from green chapter or c328 or y618.


oh is it? i haven't seen that product before, maybe i missed it or something..but if they have this product then everything becomes even easier...

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## seudzar

Super paiseh.... The product is not from mosura. It is from Borneo Wild which is called Borneo Wild gH up. Green Chapter has a lot of product from Borneo Wild. Paiseh paiseh... Old man need new pair of glasses liao.

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## seudzar

Take a look at this link from Green Chapter. It teaches us what product can be used to condition the shrimp tank to the level we want.

http://www.gcshop-sg.com/learn_v.php?aid=39&topic=1

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## kiantkh

Thanks leefhker for the tip on increasing the gh. Initially I was thinking of adding directly to the tank without water change.  :Embarassed: 

Wow thanks seudzar! Thats a very useful link!

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## Navanod

The product from Mosura is TDS up, which is increasing TDS without a corresponding increase in GH. Useful in a very new tank with a low TDS

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## shawnc9

Only 1 pack left at gc, no stock at C328, Y618. Just in case you're looking for it. Its a bit hard to find.

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## kiantkh

Thanks for the tip! I am currently using mineral plus to up my gh.Tds is hovering at around 330-340.
Also adding more africana to buffer my ph.

Hope all goes well.  :Smile:

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## seudzar

Plenty of Borneo Wild "GH Up" at Green Chapter.

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## devil_xiaozhu

Now i got the same problem with you. ph 5.5, gh 4, kh 1, ammonia 0. didnt test tds. 
My bds all up lorry. HEART PAIN. 

My sakura also experincing the same thing. 
Both bds and sakura are kept in the same tank.

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## Noobz

PH 5.5 should be ok with BDS bro. Maybe need to check on the TDS.

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## devil_xiaozhu

> PH 5.5 should be ok with BDS bro. Maybe need to check on the TDS.


yup. can't think of what is wrong except maybe for the tds part.  :Sad:

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