# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Invertebrates >  Extreme GH and KH readings

## crazyhanz

Hi guys. I'm really new to CRS keeping and I am worried with my water parameters. I bought a GH and KH tester from API earlier today and have just tested my parameters.

GH: 22
KH: 9
PH: 6.4

This is very alarming. I have been keeping the shrimps close to 2 months without any problems but I have to rectify this problem. One thing I have to add is that I add Seachem Equilibrium and Mosura Mineral Plus after each water change accordingly to the stated dosage. Tank is covered with GEX soil. There are several pieces of driftwood and some rocks. For the Singapore guys here, are the rocks bought from Colorful causing the extremes in my readings? What can I do to check if the rocks are contributing to it? These are the rocks which are grey in color which are often used in Iwagumi setups. How can I go about lowering the GH and KH respectively. I also add CO2 (2bps) on timer(8hrs). Your help is greatly appreciated.

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## Spid

Woa indeed alarming. Gh and Kh if Im not wrong will only be brought down by water changes. Try not to dose too much of those 2 products you mentioned. Seachem Equilibrium from what I experienced is already a great Gh booster, accompany by more mosura mineral plus will show molting problems in the future. 

What I suggest is do small water changes, probably 2 times in a week, do not add anything else but dechlorinator. 

I use to care and monitor my GH and KH values but sometimes values is not the most accurate indicators. I think the best way is still monitor how your shrimps molt. A complete shell with a bit translucent appearance is the best molt. You can refer to Imke's blog. She had a very good article on that. Kudos for sharing those good articles.

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## silane

> Hi guys. I'm really new to CRS keeping and I am worried with my water parameters. I bought a GH and KH tester from API earlier today and have just tested my parameters.
> 
> GH: 22
> KH: 9
> PH: 6.4
> 
> This is very alarming. I have been keeping the shrimps close to 2 months without any problems but I have to rectify this problem. One thing I have to add is that I add Seachem Equilibrium and Mosura Mineral Plus after each water change accordingly to the stated dosage. Tank is covered with GEX soil. There are several pieces of driftwood and some rocks. For the Singapore guys here, are the rocks bought from Colorful causing the extremes in my readings? What can I do to check if the rocks are contributing to it? These are the rocks which are grey in color which are often used in Iwagumi setups. How can I go about lowering the GH and KH respectively. I also add CO2 (2bps) on timer(8hrs). Your help is greatly appreciated.


Remove the rocks (should be granite), they are main source of high kH and GH and do some water changes, do fast before your soil lose its acidic capability and then it will bring ph, kh and GH all the way up.

You shouldn't use granite for CRS tank, they prefer acidic soft water. When the tank is first tank up, the pH maybe too low for certain soil, any pH fall below 6.0 would have to have GH monitor, and for this case, GH has to be higher (5 to 6dH), this can be done by adding Mosura Mineral Plus. As your pH increase, reduce the GH, for your case, I think a GH of 2 to 4 is good enough, but not 22.

In low pH and low GH situation, shrimp will not find minerals to form shells. In high pH and high GH situation, shrimps will not be able to molt.

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## boxedfish

silane, 

so what rock is suitable for crs tank? i think i am using granite rocks too and have high GH and KH. Thanks

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## silane

Unless you can find type of rock that does not have calcium carbonate as composition. It will be something like quartz which is mainly SiO2.

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## crazyhanz

Thanks Spid and Silane for the input. I have been constantly doing water changes (20&#37 :Wink:  once a week. And you guys mentioned that the shrimps would have a difficulty in molting but, I always see my shrimps molts laying around every few days. Its just like what Spid said, complete shells which are a bit translucent. This makes the situation all the more confusing. As I have not encountered deaths recently, I'll try and make partial water changes at the end of this week. In addition to that, I will skip the weekly dosage of the two products and measure the parameters again. The rocks will be removed if the the values do not change. 

Any guys can confirm as to whether these rocks that I mentioned are really made of granite?

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## boxedfish

got pics to show the rocks?

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## dexter

sorry ts, can tag along ur post to ask something? it was mentioned that high GH causes difficulty for shrimps to moult... what about for sulawesi shrimps? cos they habitat is of very high gh right? pls advise

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## silane

> Thanks Spid and Silane for the input. I have been constantly doing water changes (20&#37 once a week. And you guys mentioned that the shrimps would have a difficulty in molting but, I always see my shrimps molts laying around every few days. Its just like what Spid said, complete shells which are a bit translucent. This makes the situation all the more confusing. As I have not encountered deaths recently, I'll try and make partial water changes at the end of this week. In addition to that, I will skip the weekly dosage of the two products and measure the parameters again. The rocks will be removed if the the values do not change. 
> 
> Any guys can confirm as to whether these rocks that I mentioned are really made of granite?


I would expect you to provide picture if you really want to know the answer. How would you expect anyone to really tell you what they are just base on a few words of description.

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## crazyhanz

Sorry guys for the late reply. Here is a link to the rocks used: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=54047

I've just done my weekly water change(25 -30&#37 :Wink:  and these are the parameters I measured:
GH: 12
KH:7
PH: 6.8

Please do note that I have removed the rocks used and have stopped CO2 injection. I have not dosed any Sechem Equilibrium and Mosura Mineral Plus to the water. So what do I have to do now to reduce my GH and KH to a more suitable level for my CRS? Thanks guys.

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## crazyhanz

Do you think its advisable to do another water change today to reach the GH value desired?

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## boxedfish

crazyhanz, 

so from all the things you have done, has your GH been lowered?

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## crazyhanz

Yes it has. 

Before:
GH:22
KH:9
PH:6.4

Now:
GH:12
KH:7
PH:6.8

So do I do more water changes in the next few days to lower the parameters to my desired level? Is it safe to do so?

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## silane

Since you are mixing water with lower GH with your tank water which is high GH, the GH will drop.

Do slow and small changes of water.

Likely your pH will not able to get down in near term or even in longer term.

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## crazyhanz

Thanks Silane for your answers. 

I just did another 20% water change just now. Results:

GH:10
KH:4-5
PH:6.8

GH / KH is lowering to a more comfortable level for CRS. I will do a few more water changes in the following days and update you guys on the situation. 

I think the suspicion from Silane in regards to the rocks are possibly true. I think they are made of granite. 

pH wise, I'm quite happy it's staying around 6.8.

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## boxedfish

time to take out my granite rocks too if that is the cause. my GH is like yours before, over the roof. 

i just hoped that the regular water changes will permanently drop the GH to your desired levels. Hoped that once u stopped the water changes or start to change water once a week, the GH will not raise.

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## crazyhanz

I was just wondering, if I were to use ketapang leaves, will my GH/KH go down? I tried searching for the answer here, but all I got was that ketapang leaves can be used to lower pH. Nothing mentioned if it affects GH / KH.

I'm afraid that too much water change may affect my CRS. If ketapang leaves can help lower my GH / KH, then I think it's a more natural way of facing the problem.

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## boxedfish

read that dried peat moss can lower GH, but will tint your water brown.

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## mozaqua

Peat can lower hardness...IF you put it in the filter. This is active filtration, just putting peat in the water is more passive which is unlikely to lower the hardness much at all. Although the Ketpang/Indian almond leaves or peat in the water will lower the PH.

Regards

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## crazyhanz

So it seems that peat is one way to lower GH. Any brands to recommend?

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## mozaqua

> So it seems that peat is one way to lower GH. Any brands to recommend?


Hey Hanz,

If your water is like your other Singapore counterparts, it is already Soft! That means, just do water changes until the water gets back to normal. If you have hard water out of the tap, like me, then you can use peat or resin to lower the hardness.
What is your PH, GH, KH from the tap?

Regards

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## boxedfish

> Hey Hanz,
> 
> If your water is like your other Singapore counterparts, it is already Soft! That means, just do water changes until the water gets back to normal. If you have hard water out of the tap, like me, then you can use peat or resin to lower the hardness.
> What is your PH, GH, KH from the tap?
> 
> Regards


hi, i tested my tap water for GH and it;s 140ppm out from the tap!. i don't think singapore water is soft. Anyway, will resin stain the water like peat moss?

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## crazyhanz

My GH rose again after a check this morning. However my KH and pH seem ok. Here are the results:

Before:

pH: 6.8
GH:10
KH:4-5

Now

pH: 6.5
GH: 14
KH: 4 -5

pH was lowered due to CO2 injection. This GH problem is getting on my nerves. How can it be 10 a couple of days ago and now its up again? I did add about 1ml of Seachem Flourish for my plants on Monday evening. But isn't this way too little to cause a hike that much? There are no rocks in my tank now. Only driftwood. What else could be causing this hike in GH? Please advise.

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## boxedfish

i believe it's the tap water we use. it's already high in GH. Somemore, due to evaporation, we add in more water. Only water evaporates, leaving the minerals still inside the tank, then add in more water, thus making the minerals inside to increase resulting in higher GH. That;s my theory, hoped others can shed some light into this.

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## dexter

> i believe it's the tap water we use. it's already high in GH. Somemore, due to evaporation, we add in more water. Only water evaporates, leaving the minerals still inside the tank, then add in more water, thus making the minerals inside to increase resulting in higher GH. That;s my theory, hoped others can shed some light into this.


i thought our tap water is very low in gh?

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## boxedfish

> i thought our tap water is very low in gh?


i use API 5 in 1 tester and it shows 140 - 160ppm which is around 8 to 10. u know of your tap water GH?

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## crazyhanz

Ok I did another 30&#37; water change and here and the values recorded:

pH:6.7
GH:10
KH:4

The C02 injection will remain as it helps with the lowering of my pH. I will completely stop dosing fertilizers for this tank until I am sure I can sustain a tolerable GH value. Water changes seem to help but I'm still searching for the root of the problem. KH seems to be lowering with the water changes.

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## Spid

I opened my API GH/KH test kit yesterday wanted to make a test on our incoming tap water. Guess what after 30 drops I still see no results. After that I went to test my aquarium water, same thing after 30 drops no results. After bro crazyhanz reminder over PM, I checked the batch lot no and its way back in 2003. Gosh, no wonder I cant have a clear reading of my gh values. 

However it was clear that the KH value of my incoming tap is 2. Ph of 7.5. I reside in the west though. TDS no measurement as I do have my tds meter with me at the moment. If Im not wrong TDS values for our tap is very low. 

Boxedfish, from what I understand the 5in 1 test kit may not be so accurate. I do suggest buy those individual ones, though it is more expensive but trust me, in times to come, they comes in very handy. 

Crazyhanz, I think gh of 10 works fine for dwarf species at the moment though the optimal range is 4-6. Slow reduction is always the best way. Let your shrimps slowly acclimatise to the new changes.

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## ryo88

> Ok I did another 30% water change and here and the values recorded:
> 
> pH:6.7
> GH:10
> KH:4
> 
> The C02 injection will remain as it helps with the lowering of my pH. I will completely stop dosing fertilizers for this tank until I am sure I can sustain a tolerable GH value. Water changes seem to help but I'm still searching for the root of the problem. KH seems to be lowering with the water changes.


I think the cause of high kH and GH is due to the rock or Seachem Equilibrium, mostly is rock. They are known to increase kh and GH and that is what rock made of.

Mousra Mineral Plus is made for shrimps, and it stated it does not increase pH and kH but only GH which is needed for molting.

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## mozaqua

> I opened my API GH/KH test kit yesterday wanted to make a test on our incoming tap water. Guess what after 30 drops I still see no results. After that I went to test my aquarium water, same thing after 30 drops no results. After bro crazyhanz reminder over PM, I checked the batch lot no and its way back in 2003. Gosh, no wonder I cant have a clear reading of my gh values. 
> 
> However it was clear that the KH value of my incoming tap is 2. Ph of 7.5. I reside in the west though. TDS no measurement as I do have my tds meter with me at the moment. If Im not wrong TDS values for our tap is very low. 
> 
> Boxedfish, from what I understand the 5in 1 test kit may not be so accurate. I do suggest buy those individual ones, though it is more expensive but trust me, in times to come, they comes in very handy. 
> 
> Crazyhanz, I think gh of 10 works fine for dwarf species at the moment though the optimal range is 4-6. Slow reduction is always the best way. Let your shrimps slowly acclimatise to the new changes.


I had a similar problem with the Red Sea GH test kit! For a long time I could not get a proper reading, then I bought a Tetra GH test and it works!
Before, when I add the drops, the water in the vial would stay clear, which is not what it should do. Every GH test kit I have tried changes color after the first drop to the "starting color" then you count the drops until the degrees GH is calculated.

If anyone else has this problem, try getting a new kit, it could be expired (although many do not have a printed expiration date!)

Regards

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## mozaqua

> Ok I did another 30% water change and here and the values recorded:
> 
> pH:6.7
> GH:10
> KH:4
> 
> The C02 injection will remain as it helps with the lowering of my pH. I will completely stop dosing fertilizers for this tank until I am sure I can sustain a tolerable GH value. Water changes seem to help but I'm still searching for the root of the problem. KH seems to be lowering with the water changes.


Looks like the values you have now are quite acceptable. 

The GH is a little high, but it should not be a problem. 
Keep a close eye on the KH, and PH when injecting CO2. This is because the CO2 can dissolve minerals causing the KH to climb really high. If the KH climbs high, the PH will drop further due to even more availability of CO2. not to mention extremely high amounts of CO2 will kill your shrimp! It happened to me once when I discovered many crushed shells in my sand substrate and KH went to 13deg. Turns out the sand I got was not the same stuff I normally get, I think it was mixed with Sea sand.

Check out a KH to PH table to see how much CO2 injection is safe.
http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
/\ This guy has a calculator on the site too.
One thing I tend to disagree with his statement that CO2 should be less than 25ppm, I have found up to 30ppm is no problem as long as there are adequate plants to provide O2.

Regards

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## crazyhanz

Thanks Cobalt99. Will monitor the values that you mentioned.

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## crazyhanz

Another water change was done again. Here are the results:

Before

pH:6.7
GH:10
KH:4

Now

pH:6.4
GH:8
KH:2-3

After stopping my dosage of Seachem Flourish, my GH seems to be slowly going down. I think it will only be safe to use once I have a GH of about 2-3. Either that or I have to dose just a tiny bit. Next water change would be on Sunday.

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## boxedfish

i am interested to see if you start to change water in a weekly basis 20&#37; to 30% (which most ppl do), will the GH rise up again or keep at a stable level.

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## crazyhanz

I am keen to find that out myself too. However, I can only stop my many WC when I am certain that I have reached the desired values preferred for CRS rearing. Only then can I revert back to my once weekly WC routine. 

How's your tank doing Boxedfish? Are your GH values decreasing? Any updates for us?

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## boxedfish

> I am keen to find that out myself too. However, I can only stop my many WC when I am certain that I have reached the desired values preferred for CRS rearing. Only then can I revert back to my once weekly WC routine. 
> 
> How's your tank doing Boxedfish? Are your GH values decreasing? Any updates for us?


GH still high.. just tested. dunno if there;s something wrong with my tester. I tried to get a GH tester today but sold out in NA. anyway, i;m giving up on CRS because the water from my tap is just not suitable for CRS. See the link, http://www.pub.gov.sg/general/Pages/WaterTreatment.aspx might shed some light in our extreme GH problem. I am not willing to spend the extra with using RO water also. Goin for easier shrimp species.  :Smile:

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## crazyhanz

Yea I read about our water in the PUB website too. But I measured my parameters from the tap and it should be alright for CRS rearing. Maybe different areas produce different parameters. 

You should go for cherry shrimps. They are very hardy. Very good shrimps to start off with.

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## boxedfish

> Yea I read about our water in the PUB website too. But I measured my parameters from the tap and it should be alright for CRS rearing. Maybe different areas produce different parameters. 
> 
> You should go for cherry shrimps. They are very hardy. Very good shrimps to start off with.


yah maybe different area different water. i am from the east, so should draw from bedok which has higher GH and other things.

nah not cherry for me, never liked them...

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## crazyhanz

Here are the results after Sunday's WC:

Before

pH:6.4
GH:8
KH:2-3

Now

pH:6.4
GH:7
KH:2-3

Slight improvement seen. When eventually my GH reaches the value of "6", does it mean I do not have to add in any Mosura Mineral Plus? Would my tank have all the necessary minerals with this desired GH value?

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## crazyhanz

After doing a lot of water changes, my parameters are as follows:

pH:6.4
GH:6
KH:2-3

However, there is a slight problem. Every few days after my WC, my GH would start to rise again. Currently I do not have rocks and I do not dose any form of supplements for shrimps/plants. What could be causing the GH to rise besides all the factors that I had listed?

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## laban

might be the water u use.. if u are using tap water, u are adding more GH again to the tank.. so thus the rise of GH.. mine too but after a while should be stable.  :Smile:

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## crazyhanz

The water from my tap has a GH of 3. So in theory, if I constantly change my water in the tank, it should one day stabilize to somewhere in the region of 3-4. Am I right to say this?

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## boxedfish

how often did u change and how many &#37; at a time? how much did u top up the water a day?

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## crazyhanz

I always do my WC's on Wednesday and Sunday. About 30&#37;. I don't do any topping up of water as my evaporation rate is not high.

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## mozaqua

> I always do my WC's on Wednesday and Sunday. About 30%. I don't do any topping up of water as my evaporation rate is not high.


Why are you changing the water 2x/wk? Seems very excessive. If GH is 3-10, it is fine! If you have a filter, no need to change the water so often. I don't know any good shrimp keepers who change more than 1x/wk. Unless your tank is very small, and does not have a filter or plants(why??)

If your GH keeps climbing after you changed all the water, than you have minerals in the tank, such as Calcium carbonate rock, or Magnesium which is dissolving. If this is the issue, I would start over with some neutral substrate (or stop injecting CO2).

Regards

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## wsw

> I opened my API GH/KH test kit yesterday wanted to make a test on our incoming tap water. Guess what after 30 drops I still see no results. After that I went to test my aquarium water, same thing after 30 drops no results. After bro crazyhanz reminder over PM, I checked the batch lot no and its way back in 2003. Gosh, no wonder I cant have a clear reading of my gh values.


hi spid,
i facing the same thing, like to know how you check the batch number....
tks
wsw

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