# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  Which Co2 Delivery system are you using

## bennyc

There are many CO2 delivery system in the market. Which do you use?
How do you think about its performance? Would you recommend it?

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## bennyc

Using a cermanic diffuser the results are ok but i have heard inline diffusers are better.

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## Urban Aquaria

I use inline diffuser because it is one less item in the tank so less clutter... and it doesn't get algae so easily (since its hidden away from light), so less cleaning required.  :Smile:

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## bennyc

> I use inline diffuser because it is one less item in the tank so less clutter... and it doesn't get algae so easily (since its hidden away from light), so less cleaning required.


Do you put it at the inlet pipe or outlet pipe?

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## thebaldingaquarist

I have and i use all 4.
My favourite is the reactor.

And also a CO2 "circulator". which i used once only.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Do you put it at the inlet pipe or outlet pipe?


I install mine at the output hose, as per recommended placement.

I've seen friends put them on the input hose though, hoping to get the Co2 mixed and diffused even more by tumbling through the canister filter sponges and media... looks like it could work too, but the risk is gas cavitation building up inside the canister and causing the impeller to run with less water. I guess that probably could happen if there is high bps rate being pumped in for long periods of time.

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## bennyc

> I have and i use all 4.
> My favourite is the reactor.
> 
> And also a CO2 "circulator". which i used once only.


Eric, how many tanks you have? haha. By the way what is a CO2 circulator.

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## thebaldingaquarist

> Do you put it at the inlet pipe or outlet pipe?


 Hi Bennyc,
I know you are not talking to me, but i thought i should share my experience with you.

I have placed the ISTA reactor and UP inline atomizer at both inlet and outlet.

the inline atomizer in the inlet side was a mess. The pump was very loud, most probably due to accumulation of Co2 in the filter.

the ISTA reactor had the same issue, but somewhat lower amount of noise. Which indicates to me that less air pockets were formed. I had better control over the CO2 with the ISTA then the inline atomizer.

Therefore i recommend that if you were to get the inline atomizer or reactor, connect it to the outlet. I understand that changes water pressure can cause dissolved air to "un-dissolve". when water exists the pipe into the media column, the pressure of the water might drop, causing air pockets to form. Same thing when the water is pushed out of the outlet pipe into the tank.

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## bennyc

Thanks eric, for sharing. 

I am starting this poll to have a gauge on what everybody is using. Another thing i was hoping to achieve is that people will share their experiences using different product to benefit people like me to have an informed decision to "jump ship" to another product.

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## AQMS

I tried all four on the poll,my take is the inline diffuser.
Easy and simple.

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## illumnae

I've used them all before, and highly prefer inline diffusers. I think reactors dissolving CO2 into the water is not as effective as "misting" via diffusers/atomizers. Between atomizers and glass diffusers, I would choose atomizers as they are smaller and less conspicuous in the tank. However, inline diffuers win for me because they are outside of the tank, require less cleaning and are convenient (just install and forget for a long time).

In my nano now, I'm currently using an atomizer as an interim measure, since my ISTA inline diffuser sprung a leak and I'm waiting for my UP inline diffuser to be delivered from Taobao.

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## bennyc

It seems like inline diffusers are a very very popular choice. But, it requires a 40psi right? all across the brands?

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## felix_fx2

> It seems like inline diffusers are a very very popular choice. But, it requires a 40psi right? all across the brands?


nope. only ones that can deliver mist need 36-40 psi range.

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## Shadow

there are different brand of inline diffuser. Boyu and ISTA does not require high pressure but cannot create mist.

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## bennyc

> nope. only ones that can deliver mist need 36-40 psi range.


Sorry Felix, i am not very familar with inline diffusers. So UP needs 36-40? what other brands need 36-40?

I am not good at psi, so does it mean that when the CO2 is close to empty, the inline will not work? wasting the little CO2 left.

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## Shadow

If you are using regulator, you will see 2 pressure gauge. One for tank pressure which normally will show 1000 psi, the other one for working pressure which normally will show around 20-25 psi. To use up inline diffuser, you need the working pressure around 36-40 psi instead of 20-25 psi.

In other word, you cannot use up inline diffuser if your regulator can only output 20-25 psi.

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## bennyc

> If you are using regulator, you will see 2 pressure gauge. One for tank pressure which normally will show 1000 psi, the other one for working pressure which normally will show around 20-25 psi. To use up inline diffuser, you need the working pressure around 36-40 psi instead of 20-25 psi.
> 
> In other word, you cannot use up inline diffuser if your regulator can only output 20-25 psi.


Shadow,thanks for the explaination. A follow up question. The working psi is not affect by the amount of CO2 in the cylinder?

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## David

Erh ....educate me, what is an inline diffuser?

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## David

Is this considered an inline diffuser?

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## thebaldingaquarist

Yes. A very beautiful one. I want!

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## David

I thought I saw it at GC...it looks like a regular diffuser encase in another glass bubble...

How is this better than the regular diffuser?

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## bennyc

Normally, people are talking about this model.


David, you are very High Class. Show the Calaqualab model. Anyway, they have a offical distributor at Bangkok JJ market. Wanted to go visit the last time i went Bangkok but no time, so wasted.

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## David

No Lah Bennyc ...I my belief is have a nice tank that looks good... Just looking at it makes me happy. I go for looks first price later. If out of my reach, I rather save the money for it than to go for the next in line.

It's just me ...I guess...

So I cannot get this in Singapore?

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## bennyc

i think it is available in singapore 

Extracted from their offical website:

*New distributor for Europe (excluding the UK) and Asia* 
(1 July 200 :Cool:  
Aqua Culture Trading, based in Singapore, will now be the distributor for Cal Aqua Labs for Asia and Europe (excluding the United Kingdom). For more information, please contact:
Aqua Culture Trading
Blk 354, Clementi Avenue 2, #01-203
Singapore 120354
Telephone: +65 6775 7376
Website

oh.. it is actually Green chapter

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## Shadow

> Shadow,thanks for the explaination. A follow up question. The working psi is not affect by the amount of CO2 in the cylinder?


Working pressure will not be effected as long as there are still liquid CO2 in the tank. As long as there is liquid CO2, the tank pressure will be around 1000psi. Normally you will notice fluctuation when the tank pressure drop below 400psi (estimate, I do not know the exact)

Do note when you psi show 500, it does not mean your tank half full. Anything below 800-900psi means empty. You can only tell the amount of CO2 in the tank by weight not pressure.

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## thebaldingaquarist

> I thought I saw it at GC...it looks like a regular diffuser encase in another glass bubble...
> 
> How is this better than the regular diffuser?


I am not sure if this is just marketing talk, but i sort of believe it.

The reason why its better :Razz: r
in normal ceramic diffusers, the CO2 is forced into a fine mist by pores on the ceramic plate. This CO2 is small and gets dissolved into the water easily. To further aid the process, some people (like myself) like to point the outlet of the filter towards the ceramic diffuser. It disrupts the CO2 stream, causing it to whirl around before going straight up to the water surface.

this design does something similar, it creates a flow of water surrounding the CO2 stream. promising a higher rate of dissolution or finer misting (i am not sure).

Thats my take..

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

I am using the below setup for CO2 reactor (Ista Mixer):
Attachment 36906

connected to my basic and simple bubble counter:
Attachment 36907

and finally connected to my CO2 cylinder with ANS eletric soleniod:
Attachment 36908

IMHO, the aim is actually to get CO2 effectively mixed into the water in order to prevent wastage of CO2 that normally floats onto the surface and in turn provide for the plants. I feel that the Ista mixer is pretty good as you can see in the below video, there is hardly any CO2 bubbles visible that is discarded from the mixer:




open to the floor for comments and sharing.

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## kohanson

For me, I chose to use ceramic diffuser as I like to look at the bubbles that are released into the tank. My diffuser is placed directly under the outlet lily pipe to ensure the CO2 bubbles can be push around the tank. The diffuser is also placed at the back of the tank.

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## thebaldingaquarist

Hi Eric,
How many bubbles / sec is that?
I have about 0.5 bps for my 3 ft.

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Hi Eric,
> How many bubbles / sec is that?
> I have about 0.5 bps for my 3 ft.


I was advised to go with 2bubbles per second for a start.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## thebaldingaquarist

Ok. shall not off topic.
Thanks for the reply!

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## Shadow

> I have about 0.5 bps for my 3 ft.


that very little for 3ft, I use 6-8 bps for my 3ft but again it depend on how much light you put on top.

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## thebaldingaquarist

> that very little for 3ft, I use 6-8 bps for my 3ft but again it depend on how much light you put on top.


Agree its very little! I don't have a lot of light on that tank and the plants are not demanding.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, the number of bps for a tank is very subjective... it depends on the bubble counter, efficiency of the diffuser, size of the tank and the plant density/requirements, there is no fixed number of bps as everyone's equipment and tank conditions are different. 

A tank with low density of plants during the initial grow-out period takes in and process less Co2 than in a matured tank with very high density of plants, so have to monitor and adjust accordingly over time.

Most importantly is the drop checker shows green color, and the fishes/shrimps are not gasping for air or dropping dead.  :Smile: 

Point to note is if you do a heavy plant trimming and remove say 50% of the plant density, its a good idea to also reduce the Co2 to match the reduced intake too, that's one of the reasons why some people suddenly find their fishes and shrimps dying from excess Co2 after doing massive trims.  :Opps:

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## Max Lim

I am using ISTA Turbo CO2 Reactor Diffuser. I found it helps to dissolve the CO2 better into the water and the plants start pearling very well.. Also I try to reduce the CO2 rate and it still works well.. save my CO2 too.. :-).. Bought $18
A.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> Is this considered an inline diffuser?


This type confirm must attach prominently outside the tank to show people... most of us use the cheaper plastic "workhorse" ones though, which are relegated to stay hidden inside the cabinet instead.  :Grin:

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## felix_fx2

> Sorry Felix, i am not very familar with inline diffusers. So UP needs 36-40? what other brands need 36-40?
> 
> I am not good at psi, so does it mean that when the CO2 is close to empty, the inline will not work? wasting the little CO2 left.


The one with 2 ceramic tubes 100% need higher then 36 PSI. The other one with 1 tube i believe people with 25PSI were able to use it. (double check with wongce on his working pressure)
Inline ones in general need higher PSI.

I've used a cheapo $3.50 diffuser before, it was as good as glass diffuser maybe better  :Razz: 

Short note, if your using the splitter it goes down even more!

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## felix_fx2

> Yeah, the number of bps for a tank is very subjective... it depends on the bubble counter, efficiency of the diffuser, size of the tank and the plant density/requirements, there is no fixed number of bps as everyone's equipment and tank conditions are different.


This is a very good point, i've previously used the ISTA inline (that i do not know how i managed to crack it anyway) and i see zero bubbles going into tank and drop checker green until morning 7.30AM (lights off at 12MN)

how i hooked things up (Orthodox method, flowrate will drop like MAD)



> Tank->Canister->Inline->Prefilter->Tank


I've also known a certain member whom is no longer active, made a reactor from a small glass tank & glass diffuser (IMHO works better then reactor since reactor mostly co2 going in is bigger bubbles)

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## bennyc

just check out wongce's blog, he actually did a review on the UP Aqua Inline SUPER Diffuser. it is a two tube ceramic inline diffuser.



I don't own the picture, it is wongce's. (Wongce bro, where are you, share some expertise here, please)

He mentioned that it needs a working psi of at least 35.

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## bennyc

felix,

I do not understand your rationale, Tank->Canister->Inline->Prefilter->Tank. 

why is the prefilter last? Should not it be Tank->*Prefilter*->Canister->Inline->Tank.

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## David

UA ...I did a google search and that come up...hahhahhaa 

So basically, based on description, isn't it basically am external reactor using ceramic diffuser combined into one?

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## bennyc

> I am not sure if this is just marketing talk, but i sort of believe it.
> 
> The reason why its betterr
> in normal ceramic diffusers, the CO2 is forced into a fine mist by pores on the ceramic plate. This CO2 is small and gets dissolved into the water easily. To further aid the process, some people (like myself) like to point the outlet of the filter towards the ceramic diffuser. It disrupts the CO2 stream, causing it to whirl around before going straight up to the water surface.
> 
> this design does something similar, it creates a flow of water surrounding the CO2 stream. promising a higher rate of dissolution or finer misting (i am not sure).
> 
> Thats my take..


David, i think erctheanda bro has describe it, i could not have say it any better myself. 

The main point is that it has a direction element in it since it is distribute by the outlet of a lily pipe. so the CO2 is more evenly distribute.

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## David

Thanks ..sorry Erctheanda .... :Wink:

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## wongce

> just check out wongce's blog, he actually did a review on the UP Aqua Inline SUPER Diffuser. it is a two tube ceramic inline diffuser.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't own the picture, it is wongce's. (Wongce bro, where are you, share some expertise here, please)
> 
> He mentioned that it needs a working psi of at least 35.


I am here lol, it needs 35psi++ to work, i adjusted my solenoid for it to work. I do not get any bubble (i think co2 dissolved perfectly) as my drop checker turn green when i have sufficient pressure and while its in operation.

If you do not have sufficient pressure, the co2 can't go through the "brown diffuser tubes". I noticed bubbles counter will show bubbles slowed down and stopped( insufficient pressure to punch through the diffuser tube)

There are a lot of small parts and o-rings in the item, it needs to be fitted perfectly for it to work. The co2 inlet "nipple" feels a bit fragile to me.

I changed back to my old "rectified" atomizer as i like to see the small bubbles of co2 floating around...lol

Ok, anymore questions??lol

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## felix_fx2

> felix,
> 
> I do not understand your rationale, Tank->Canister->Inline->Prefilter->Tank. 
> 
> why is the prefilter last? Should not it be Tank->*Prefilter*->Canister->Inline->Tank.


cause its acts as reactor and hold co2 for me. besides that it keeps my waters super clear.

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## Shadow

> There are a lot of small parts and o-rings in the item, it needs to be fitted perfectly for it to work. The co2 inlet "nipple" feels a bit fragile to me.


The good thing about this model is you can dismantle it and clean it. However, I have problem with this model, exactly as womgce mention, I can see big bubble coming out from the contact between brown diffuser and the housing. Try to tighten it but still does not work. I preferred the older model, pity the distributor does not bring it anymore.

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## felix_fx2

> The good thing about this model is you can dismantle it and clean it. However, I have problem with this model, exactly as womgce mention, I can see big bubble coming out from the contact between brown diffuser and the housing. Try to tighten it but still does not work. I preferred the older model, pity the distributor does not bring it anymore.


The seal not very good for mine, ended up using Teflon tape for mine to work.
The large screw on cap used to hold everything together also broke due to screwing it overly tight. I am using back my cheaper boyu unit.

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## Shadow

so I guess not just me  :Laughing:

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## PKB

> that very little for 3ft, I use 6-8 bps for my 3ft but again it depend on how much light you put on top.


Hi Robert,

Slightly off topic a bit. My apologies.

Need some advise from you. Normally do you start injecting CO2 for a certain period before your light comes on or do you injection and the lights comes on at the same time?

My regime is as follow : (Lights and CO2 comes on at the same time)
I have a 422 Tank.

1 ) CO2 - 3 bps
2 ) Lightings - 55W X 4 (T5)
3 ) Dosing 40ml of Excel every morning
4 ) Lighting period 7am - 11am and 7pm - 11pm
5 ) Fert once a week : Following dosing instruction on Seachem N,P,K. and Iron Once every 2 weeks.

Water change once every 2 week.

Do you think my method is ok?

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Hi Robert,
> 
> Slightly off topic a bit. My apologies.
> 
> Need some advise from you. Normally do you start injecting CO2 for a certain period before your light comes on or do you injection and the lights comes on at the same time?
> 
> My regime is as follow : (Lights and CO2 comes on at the same time)
> I have a 422 Tank.
> 
> ...


Hi PKB,

I could only advise you on the period to turn on the CO2, what I am doing now is to turn the CO2 at least 30mins - 1hr before the lights kick in. Photosynthesis occur in the presence of light and CO2. You might need awhile for the CO2 to be blended into the water before the plants could effectively absorb them. Turning off, I would recommend the same 30min - 1hr before the lights go out. In this way, there will be less unconsumed CO2 within the tank, so that fishes will not be struggling for O2. Although there might be sufficient O2 in the tank, but just to be safe.

For dosing, I am only using ADA Brighty K every night before I go to bed. I believe I might need more than that, but for now, I guess it could be good enough.

*i will be camping here to learn more of dosing from the seniors and experts* :P


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## Berny

40ml per day? that's alot of excel! 

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4

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## Shadow

> Need some advise from you. Normally do you start injecting CO2 for a certain period before your light comes on or do you injection and the lights comes on at the same time?


Normally I turn ON my CO2 30 minutes earlier than the light ON.




> My regime is as follow : (Lights and CO2 comes on at the same time)
> I have a 422 Tank.
> 1 ) CO2 - 3 bps
> 2 ) Lightings - 55W X 4 (T5)


Too low in my opinion, comparing to 6-8 bps for my 3ft tank  :Laughing:  but then it better to to check with drop checker if you have it. CO2 injection is related to the amount of light you put on top, unfortunately I do not know whether 55Wx4 in 4x2x2ft consider high, medium or low.




> 3 ) Dosing 40ml of Excel every morning
> 4 ) Lighting period 7am - 11am and 7pm - 11pm
> 5 ) Fert once a week : Following dosing instruction on Seachem N,P,K. and Iron Once every 2 weeks.


What the substrate that you are using? if it is fertile soil then probably OK. Otherwise you need to calculate or try and error on the dosage. Problem with product dosing instruction is it does not tell you how much light it is for. As we all know higher light intensity (until certain point) cause higher photosynthesis rate, thus higher nutrient intake. 

It is more forgiving if you have fertile soil because your soil will act as buffer and supply the nutrient.

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## PKB

> 40ml per day? that's alot of excel! 
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4


Yes, that is overdose. actually that was for major water change. 5ml for every 40L water. Daily dosing should be actually about 10ML dosing, my typo error. My bad

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## PKB

Hi Robert, thank you for your advise. I will switch on the CO2 injection 30 mins before the lights comes on. Think it is also time to get a drop checker (I throw away my old one last week because it had became an algae nest). I am on GEX soil now. Hope this is ok.

I am breaking up my lightings period because I am worry about algae outbreak. It is ok to on the light 4hrs in the day and 4 hrs at night?

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## PKB

> Hi PKB,
> 
> I could only advise you on the period to turn on the CO2, what I am doing now is to turn the CO2 at least 30mins - 1hr before the lights kick in. Photosynthesis occur in the presence of light and CO2. You might need awhile for the CO2 to be blended into the water before the plants could effectively absorb them. Turning off, I would recommend the same 30min - 1hr before the lights go out. In this way, there will be less unconsumed CO2 within the tank, so that fishes will not be struggling for O2. Although there might be sufficient O2 in the tank, but just to be safe.
> 
> For dosing, I am only using ADA Brighty K every night before I go to bed. I believe I might need more than that, but for now, I guess it could be good enough.
> 
> *i will be camping here to learn more of dosing from the seniors and experts* :P
> 
> 
> ...


Thank for the advise Eric, your opinion about the CO2 totally make sense. Will be grabbing another timer for the CO2 on my way home today.

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## wongce

> Hi Robert, thank you for your advise. I will switch on the CO2 injection 30 mins before the lights comes on. Think it is also time to get a drop checker (I throw away my old one last week because it had became an algae nest). I am on GEX soil now. Hope this is ok.
> 
> I am breaking up my lightings period because I am worry about algae outbreak. It is ok to on the light 4hrs in the day and 4 hrs at night?


do you have an algae outbreak now? if no, there is no need to worry, just monitor and reduce photoperiod if necessary e.g from 8 hours per day to 7 hours per day. Concentrate on growing plants and algae will be normally minimal /manageable..

to me, no need to change if there is no problem, most of people fails because of a deadly disease.... the infamous "itchy hand syndrome"... Note: i also have it....lol

wah, you throw away your drop checker? they are quite easy to clean, few soaks of bleach or hydrogen peroxide and gentle rubbing and algae will be gone... i keep nerite snails to clean them ( quite effective but they loves to lay eggs on rocks and dw) . Let me know if you are throwing anything good or algae infested ok...:P.

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

Regarding algae issues, there is actually quite a good iPhone app from Tropica, that structures like a task reminder that reminds what you need to do and what to expect during the first 90 days after you set up your tank. In the app, they talk about ways to counter algae issues, as there are different types of algae, you will require different methods. Do download it and try it out.

As for me, I am trying to understand the resources algae requires in order to exist in your tank. I believe we might not be able to totally eliminate them but to minimize them. That way, we will need to introduce new factors that will cut down on their supplies of resources. And regular maintenance does help.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## PKB

> do you have an algae outbreak now? if no, there is no need to worry, just monitor and reduce photoperiod if necessary e.g from 8 hours per day to 7 hours per day. Concentrate on growing plants and algae will be normally minimal /manageable..
> 
> to me, no need to change if there is no problem, most of people fails because of a deadly disease.... the infamous "itchy hand syndrome"... Note: i also have it....lol
> 
> wah, you throw away your drop checker? they are quite easy to clean, few soaks of bleach or hydrogen peroxide and gentle rubbing and algae will be gone... i keep nerite snails to clean them ( quite effective but they loves to lay eggs on rocks and dw) . Let me know if you are throwing anything good or algae infested ok...:P.


I have the same itchy hand disease, touch and touch until things goes wrong. My drop checker is a pain to clean, algae in the inner wall of the ball. 
Was busy with work and my old scape became a heaven for algae, I can't even read the temperature on my thermometer as it was fully covered by BBA.

Will let you know if I throw away anything away again. (Joking)

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## Urban Aquaria

> ... think it is also time to get a drop checker (I throw away my old one last week because it had became an algae nest). I am on GEX soil now. Hope this is ok.
> 
> I am breaking up my lightings period because I am worry about algae outbreak. It is ok to on the light 4hrs in the day and 4 hrs at night?


The 2 shift "siesta regimen" type light schedule is more for those with non-Co2 injected tanks, as they use that technique to recover some of the limited naturally occurring CO2 during the mid-afternoon lights off period.

If your tank has pressurized Co2 injected, then its not really necessary for a 2 shift light schedule as the tank's Co2 supply is already controlled and if the nutrients and lights are balanced, then plants should already be out-competing the algae growth. 

I've read of some theories that plants can adapt better to interrupted light schedules better than algae, so i guess that's why some people still use the method even in Co2 injected tanks.

Though i do know of some friend who do it mainly because they prefer to see the tank with lights on in the morning before going to work, then see it with lights on again when they come back home... then in that case, it'll be a good idea to also schedule the Co2 injection to also switch off during the lights off period, since the plants will reduce their Co2 intake and oxygen output during no light, the Co2 might build up to much higher levels, which can affect the fishes and shrimps.

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## Urban Aquaria

> hink it is also time to get a drop checker (I throw away my old one last week because it had became an algae nest).


Maybe you can consider getting the external hang on Co2 drop checkers, like the gUSH ones:



Photo from google.

I switched back to using these type of hang on drop checkers on all my tanks now (got abit tired of cleaning my previous in-tank ones, less items in the tank = less clutter too)... their Co2 detection/reaction times seems about the same as the in-tank ones, so they can be suitable for long term usage.  :Smile:

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## bennyc

sorry guys, but i think we going off topic already. We have the dosing and CO2 injection thread right?

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## PKB

> sorry guys, but i think we going off topic already. We have the dosing and CO2 injection thread right?


Yes, My apologies. I asked the question that cause the thread to go off track. Lets move back to the CO2 dosing discussion.

My sharing on the injection method. For me, I am trying out power head to created extra circulation in the tank so I insert the CO2 tube at the powerhead outlet and let it blow the CO2 bubble 
around the tank.

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## bennyc

> Yes, My apologies. I asked the question that cause the thread to go off track. Lets move back to the CO2 dosing discussion.
> 
> My sharing on the injection method. For me, I am trying out power head to created extra circulation in the tank so I insert the CO2 tube at the powerhead outlet and let it blow the CO2 bubble 
> around the tank.


Does it work? The CO2 bubbles will be very big, right?

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## Shadow

Why don't you put the CO2 on the powerhead input, that way the impeller will help chopping the bubble into small bubble. You can even modify the impeller into needle impeller for better chopping.

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## PKB

> Does it work? The CO2 bubbles will be very big, right?


It's works for me. The bubble are small and as it is been push by the flow, it takes longer for the bubble to reach the water surface compare to the normal ceramic diffuser.

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## PKB

> Why don't you put the CO2 on the powerhead input, that way the impeller will help chopping the bubble into small bubble. You can even modify the impeller into needle impeller for better chopping.


Yes Robert, you are right. For now, there is an area on the outlet that I can insert the CO2 tube so I left it there. To route it to the. inlet, I will need to cut and modify the cover below the impeller. Actially it is just a matter if time, I will do it when my itchy hands disease relapse.

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## bennyc

i found a NAG aqua music inline diffuser, did some enquiry from green chapter, but they have no plans to bring it in. I am currently using NAG's 2in1 bubble counter & diffuser and the quality and workmanship is so much better than DAS. ( i guess, we can expect quality from japan products) Anyone knows where else carry NAG? Or can someone psycho Ron to have GC bring them in?

@David, this beauty is just a fraction of the price for CAl aqua-labs model.

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## Shadow

are you sure NAG from Japan? It might be from China with Japanese wording  :Laughing:

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## bennyc

> are you sure NAG from Japan? It might be from China with Japanese wording


Hmmm.... (thinking and scratching my head)... good point... haha.

I am very happy with my NAG though, the CO2 is in mist form compare to DAS's bubble.

(Do not quote me, but i think they are using the same OEM as ADA)

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## Shadow

They should have mention their website or headquater in their packaging right?

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

The powerhead method, where the CO2 tube is being inserted at the air intake of the powerhead does quite a good job. You can actually see the bubbles bing blown throughout the tank. I was putting this method to trial when I was setting up my tank and when my DIY CO2 failed me. This method was pretty good.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## bennyc

Sadly, do not have the packaging anymore. I can't seems to find their official website either. Maybe, I will check again when i go GC.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> I am very happy with my NAG though, the CO2 is in mist form compare to DAS's bubble


Saw that on eBay and almost ordered one to try, looks very nice for showcase setups.

Btw, how fine are the bubbles from the NAG inline diffuser's ceramic disc?

The bubble mist from the Up Aqua inline diffusers i'm currently using are tiny enough to just suspend indefinitely in the water and don't float up to the surface, so i'd be keen to try out other diffusers that can create similar types of tiny bubbles too.

----------


## bennyc

Urban, 

I have not been able to get my hands on the NAG inline diffusers since GC has no plans to bring them in. If i keep thinking about it, i might go crazy and order overseas. My supplier is not willing to cover breakages since it is glass. 

I am only using their glass ceramic diffuser which i find the bubbles to be fine but i would not class them to be that fine to be suspended indefinitely. Too bad, i do not know how to upload video. If you want i can video and watsapp you.

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> The 2 shift "siesta regimen" type light schedule is more for those with non-Co2 injected tanks, as they use that technique to recover some of the limited naturally occurring CO2 during the mid-afternoon lights off period.
> 
> If your tank has pressurized Co2 injected, then its not really necessary for a 2 shift light schedule as the tank's Co2 supply is already controlled and if the nutrients and lights are balanced, then plants should already be out-competing the algae growth. 
> 
> I've read of some theories that plants can adapt better to interrupted light schedules better than algae, so i guess that's why some people still use the method even in Co2 injected tanks.
> 
> Though i do know of some friend who do it mainly because they prefer to see the tank with lights on in the morning before going to work, then see it with lights on again when they come back home... then in that case, it'll be a good idea to also schedule the Co2 injection to also switch off during the lights off period, since the plants will reduce their Co2 intake and oxygen output during no light, the Co2 might build up to much higher levels, which can affect the fishes and shrimps.


Me me! I am one of them that have 6hrs of light when I am home after work and 3hrs of light in the morning before I go to work. Haha... Really like looking into my tank non-stop.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

Hi bennyc,

NAG stands for Nature Aquarium Goods? When you browse through ADA's website their regular products fall under Nature Aquarium Goods. So NAG is a subsidiary branding for ADA?


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## bennyc

Hi eric bro, 

Urban has a thread on siesta regime, do a quick search on AQ and you will find it.

----------


## bennyc

> Hi bennyc,
> 
> NAG stands for Nature Aquarium Goods? When you browse through ADA's website their regular products fall under Nature Aquarium Goods. So NAG is a subsidiary branding for ADA?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> eRic
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I remember someone or some website, say it is a low end sister company. While some website show it is using the same OEM but so far i can't manage to track their official website. So i can't say for sure.

Maybe, someone can enlighten me.

----------


## limz_777

i thought only do aqua product are related ?

----------


## Shadow

What I know Do!aqua series is a low end version on ADA product.

----------


## PKB

> Maybe you can consider getting the external hang on Co2 drop checkers, like the gUSH ones:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo from google.
> 
> I switched back to using these type of hang on drop checkers on all my tanks now (got abit tired of cleaning my previous in-tank ones, less items in the tank = less clutter too)... their Co2 detection/reaction times seems about the same as the in-tank ones, so they can be suitable for long term usage.


Looks beautiful but I can't use this. I have bracing on the top of the tank. 

Thanks for the picture

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Looks beautiful but I can't use this. I have bracing on the top of the tank. 
> 
> Thanks for the picture


Change to a braceless tank... Heeheehee... *poison x10 injection*


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## limz_777

just check nag is a replica product , nevertheless a good find , price quite affordable

----------


## bennyc

> just check nag is a replica product , nevertheless a good find , price quite affordable


So it is purely a replica product, is there a Japanese company at all? how do you manage to find out?

----------


## PKB

> Change to a braceless tank... Heeheehee... *poison x10 injection*
> 
> 
> Cheers
> eRic
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Change tank because of a drop checker?  :Surprised: 

I think I will choose to throw the drop checker away and get a new one if I can't clean it.  :Laughing:

----------


## felix_fx2

> Change tank because of a drop checker? 
> 
> I think I will choose to throw the drop checker away and get a new one if I can't clean it.


 :Shocked:  you must buy alot of drop checkers!

----------


## illumnae

My UP Aqua inline atomizers have arrived! Time to set it up over the weekend  :Smile: 

I have the GUSH drop checker, but what I find annoying is preparing KH4 solution.

----------


## bennyc

> My UP Aqua inline atomizers have arrived! Time to set it up over the weekend 
> 
> I have the GUSH drop checker, but what I find annoying is preparing KH4 solution.


You get from tabao so fast. (If i never remember wrongly) Care to share the contact?

----------


## wongce

> Change tank because of a drop checker? 
> 
> I think I will choose to throw the drop checker away and get a new one if I can't clean it.


let me know if you are throwing it away...lol

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> I have the GUSH drop checker, but what I find annoying is preparing KH4 solution.


Get the Ocean Free pre-mixed indicator solution, save the hassle.  :Smile:

----------


## PKB

> you must buy alot of drop checkers!


I try to clean as much as I can. I only throw if it is beyond cleaning.  :Wink:

----------


## PKB

> let me know if you are throwing it away...lol


 :Grin:  Ok..

----------


## PKB

> Why don't you put the CO2 on the powerhead input, that way the impeller will help chopping the bubble into small bubble. You can even modify the impeller into needle impeller for better chopping.


Hi Robert,

My itchy hand disease kicks in this morning. I modify the cover for the power head and insert the CO2 through the inlet. The CO2 bubble are finer and it get push further. Looks good.

----------


## Shadow

Good to know it worked

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Hi Robert,
> 
> My itchy hand disease kicks in this morning. I modify the cover for the power head and insert the CO2 through the inlet. The CO2 bubble are finer and it get push further. Looks good.


Are you able to share a photo of it?

Thanks.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## felix_fx2

google co2 venturi powerhead, also not bad

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> google co2 venturi powerhead, also not bad


I was using this method initially when my design didn't work. But I find it a little difficult to control the bubble per second, turned down my valve to the minimum to attain 2bps, but woke up in the morning to having to re-tune again.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## felix_fx2

> I was using this method initially when my design didn't work. But I find it a little difficult to control the bubble per second, turned down my valve to the minimum to attain 2bps, but woke up in the morning to having to re-tune again.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> eRic
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry i cannot get what you mean by this, your Delivery system affecting co2 output during the night? maybe you can elaborate further

btw, have you seen your posts from web browser? Tapatalk signature and in forum signature BOTH same.

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

Haha... Think you got me wrong. Not to worry, ignore my input. Conclusion, to maintain a constant 2bps output for a DIY CO2 is challenging. We really need to spend some time monitoring it, at least for me. Not sure about the rest who had done it more successfully.

Hmmm... Weird. My signature on Tapatalk has 2 signature from the view of the web. But on the Tapatalk app on my iPad, it looks normal. Let me troubleshoot alittle. Thanks for highlighting.

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Haha... Think you got me wrong. Not to worry, ignore my input. Conclusion, to maintain a constant 2bps output for a DIY CO2 is challenging. We really need to spend some time monitoring it, at least for me. Not sure about the rest who had done it more successfully.
> 
> Hmmm... Weird. My signature on Tapatalk has 2 signature from the view of the web. But on the Tapatalk app on my iPad, it looks normal. Let me troubleshoot alittle. Thanks for highlighting.


Weird, on my tapatalk, when I post through the web, there is no signature. What is wrong with the settings.


Cheers
eRic

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## felix_fx2

somehow i knew your using diy co2, don't touch it and it shall be more stable. 

for signature, since your signature in fourm is active. just disable in tapatalk it will work.

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

heehee... i got impatient itchy hands syndrome. Once, I see something amiss, can't wait to get it straighten out. Anyway, that could be a good advise for everyone who planned for a DIY CO2 system. For me, my lazy syndrome kicked in and I had gone with pressurized CO2 cylinder.  :Grin:

----------


## felix_fx2

patience is a big virtue.  :Very Happy: 

need to level up on that haha..
but advise normally is not being read up until thing go wrong. most people just read basics and skip.

----------


## PKB

> Are you able to share a photo of it?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> eRic
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hi Eric,

Unable to share a picture as I remove it and change the powerhead to a bigger one. I am attaching a skimmer to this bigger power head to get rid of the film and dust on the water surface. The CO2 is now insert via the out of this bigger power head now.

Will share a picture on the bigger power head with skimmer later.

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> patience is a big virtue. 
> 
> need to level up on that haha..
> but advise normally is not being read up until thing go wrong. most people just read basics and skip.


Now my patient level is ground low. But whenever things go amiss, I tend to spend restless hours trying to fix it.

For me, practical works better than theory. As i am impatient, I always jump into the pratical stage with minimum required readings and I always learn things the hard way. Haha... Think I will need to work on that.

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Hi Eric,
> 
> Unable to share a picture as I remove it and change the powerhead to a bigger one. I am attaching a skimmer to this bigger power head to get rid of the film and dust on the water surface. The CO2 is now insert via the out of this bigger power head now.
> 
> Will share a picture on the bigger power head with skimmer later.


No worries, do share the picture of your bigger powerhead with skimmer.

My tank had been 10days old, and I do not encounter any film and dust on the surface. Not sure if they will ever occur. This is what I did:

i installed my powerhead at the back of my tank
with the deflector of the powerhead pointing towards the tank wall slighly towards the surface of the water:

the current is actually strong enough to create a sort of agitation on the surface of the water

Perhaps the constant movement of the water surface prevented the film and dust. If this technique I used proves itself, I might not need a surface skimmer afterall?

----------


## Atham

I am using a Co2 reactor. CO2 pressurised at about 25psi at 1 bps for 3 feet tank. CO2 supply cut off when PH controller sense 6.5PH. Previously it was on an inline diffuser at 3bps, and it need higher CO2 psi.

----------


## bennyc

@Atham, not sure if i am reading it right. You are using less bps for Co2 reactor compare to inline diffuser, this is because you feel the reactor is better?

From your picture, you seems to use two light set. Care to show your full tank shot? Seems like it is a very high light tank.

----------


## Atham

@bennyc. The amount of PH lower during CO2 injection for either CO2 reactor and diffuser is the same - about 0.3-0.5PH, but I lower than bps when I switch to active reactor. The reactor has the effect of drawing CO2, but I don't see any small bubble misting at the pipe outlet. While, as for diffuser - more CO2 pressure is required to force the CO2 out of the diffuser and also small bubble leaks. Just my feeling. The reactor installation is less tan a month old, I still need to monitor the plant grow.  :Smile: 

Yes, there are 4x39W lamps. There is a period of high algae infection on my moss and also the stem plant was been suppressed to crawling, I only switch on the 1st front ground lamp and the 4th back ground lamp.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> I am using a Co2 reactor. CO2 pressurised at about 25psi at 1 bps for 3 feet tank. CO2 supply cut off when PH controller sense 6.5PH. Previously it was on an inline diffuser at 3bps, and it need higher CO2 psi.


Is that the ISTA Turbo Co2 Reactor? 

From your experience so far, how is the noise level on that model, and does it reduce flow significantly? 

Reason why i ask is because i was also considering it too, but my previous experience with other CO2 reactors with impellers was that they tend to have a rattling noise after some time (probably depends on the impeller design).

If this reactor runs quietly, i'd be keen to try it out too.  :Smile:

----------


## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Is that the ISTA Turbo Co2 Reactor? 
> 
> From your experience so far, how is the noise level on that model, and does it reduce flow significantly? 
> 
> Reason why i ask is because i was also considering it too, but my previous experience with other CO2 reactors with impellers was that they tend to have a rattling noise after some time (probably depends on the impeller design).
> 
> If this reactor runs quietly, i'd be keen to try it out too.


I believe this particular model is from Sera.

I am currently using the normal medium mixer from Ista. Noise wise, not that I have notice. If you are concern on the affected flow rate, you can try connecting it to an external pump instead. Though it might look pretty ugly from the tank perspective.

There is this one from up-aqua which I feel is pretty effective:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2...reactorbig.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## Atham

> Is that the ISTA Turbo Co2 Reactor? 
> 
> From your experience so far, how is the noise level on that model, and does it reduce flow significantly? 
> 
> Reason why i ask is because i was also considering it too, but my previous experience with other CO2 reactors with impellers was that they tend to have a rattling noise after some time (probably depends on the impeller design).
> 
> If this reactor runs quietly, i'd be keen to try it out too.


@Urban - This is Sera Flore active reactor 1000. If I put my ear close and to touching the cylinder, yes I will hear water bubbling noise caused by the Co2 hitting those rotary. Otherwise, I would not hear the noise standing in front of it. When I first deploy it, I forgot to get rid of the air inside, water rattling noise was bad. But this reactor needs high flow at least 700lph and hose diameter is 16/22mm. I am using a Ehiem Ecco 300 canister to water to this reactor.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> @Urban - This is Sera Flore active reactor 1000. If I put my ear close and to touching the cylinder, yes I will hear water bubbling noise caused by the Co2 hitting those rotary. Otherwise, I would not hear the noise standing in front of it. When I first deploy it, I forgot to get rid of the air inside, water rattling noise was bad. But this reactor needs high flow at least 700lph and hose diameter is 16/22mm. I am using a Ehiem Ecco 300 canister to water to this reactor.


Thanks for the info!

I was looking at the ISTA version at the various LFS a while back (that model fits 12/16mm tubes), which i guess is a "copycat" of the original Sera one. 

Will check them out and maybe get a set to try soon.  :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

Seeking some feedback from those using the UP Inline Diffuser. I'm using the Ocean Free regulator that puts my working pressure at about 30-35 PSI. However, the issue I am having is that the pressure is so high that I find my connection to the bubble counter always springs a leak. I'm using the GUSH Orb counter, and after a few minutes of switching the CO2 on, one of the ends of the tubing/bubble counter connection will leak CO2.

Is this a problem with my bubble counter, or if not what can I do to prevent this?

----------


## Shadow

get the bubble counter and check valve that use screw type to secure the hose.

something like (image from google)

----------


## illumnae

The ISTA one available at East Ocean? I was using the metal check valves from GC and the GUSH Orb counter. Will head out to buy the ISTA one with screws later!

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> The ISTA one available at East Ocean? I was using the metal check valves from GC and the GUSH Orb counter. Will head out to buy the ISTA one with screws later!


Glass bubble counters tend to have smooth input ports so i guess the Co2 tubing can't grip as well on them under pressure, do make sure you are also using tubing designed for higher pressure Co2 usage too, those are usually the thicker ones made of much stronger material.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

Just an update to this thread... a few days back i broke one of my inline diffuser Co2 input ports while doing maintenance (those are the thinnest bits of plastic on diffuser units, very easy to snap off if not careful), basically rendering it useless. 

I considered fixing it with epoxy glue, but didn't want to risk it due to the higher pressures i'm running on my system.  :Opps: 

So i decided to get a replacement system. Eventually getting the ISTA external CO2 reactor from LFS (similiar design to the Sera version that Atham is using from a few posts back).

Got it setup...



I've been using it for a few days and so far it works great, Co2 diffusion rate is near 100%, i can see a vortex/whirlpool of Co2 gas swirling around at the top section of the reactor getting chopped up by the impellers and diffused into the water. No visible bubbles getting into the tank so its a nice change from the mist effect with my previous ceramic based inline diffuser.

I maintained the same bps rate as before and my drop checker still shows the same green color. The plants are still growing and pearling well so it is effective.

The only thing is when the Co2 is actively being injected there is a slight trickling sound from the reactor, though you have to get close to notice it. I have mine in a cabinet so i can't hear it unless i open the cabinet door. Otherwise its virtually silent when Co2 is not injected.

For this model, it recommends to use canister filters which have between 360 l/ph - 1,000 l/ph flow rates for optimal performance. I assume if the flow is too slow, the system may get stuck, and if too fast the Co2 bubbles might just get washed out too quickly without being fully dissolved.

The good thing about this type of reactor system is it doesn't require high pressure to operate, so it's usable for those with lower pressure Co2 regulators too.

Overall, quite happy with this system.  :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

I got the Ocean Free bubble counter with screws, and using the thick wall Taiya CO2 tubing. Issue I'm facing now is that the bubble count is really really slow. No matter how much I open my needle valve, I'm getting maybe 1 bubble every 5 seconds. Does this mean that the pressure is too high for my solenoid to handle?

----------


## felix_fx2

> I got the Ocean Free bubble counter with screws, and using the thick wall Taiya CO2 tubing. Issue I'm facing now is that the bubble count is really really slow. No matter how much I open my needle valve, I'm getting maybe 1 bubble every 5 seconds. Does this mean that the pressure is too high for my solenoid to handle?


But got mist? Mine also similar, slow down when it start to mist.

other owners can contribute

----------


## illumnae

Mist started appearing after I posted my last post, but drop checker isn't bright green, only bluish green and i don't seem to be able to increase the bubble count any more than current

----------


## Shadow

assuming no leaking, it sound like not enough pressure

----------


## felix_fx2

before mine broke, i recall 1-2 sec 1 bubble.

----------


## illumnae

Here's a photo of my solenoid gauges. It's showing 900/30, which should be sufficient right?

----------


## felix_fx2

not enough pressure, mine about double of yours 60-70 when idle.
that UP Aqua inline with 2 ceramic shaft need 36PSI, think indicated on packaging. You can try 1 shaft, should have lower requirement

----------


## Shadow

I can remember what the requirement is it 36psi or 42psi working pressure? brand to brand also different

----------


## limz_777

anyone got a faulty metal check valve before ? recently mine got stuck , use a air pump to test , no bubble coming out , weird

----------


## wongce

up aqua "inline super diffuser" required minimum 36psi

http://theplantedtankblog.blogspot.s...-diffuser.html

----------


## illumnae

Which solenoid are you using?

The Up Aqua one I am using is a single shaft one, not the 2 shaft one. This one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UP-aqua-Inli...item5d41ba3210

Here's a video showing how slow it is:

http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ill...c8130.mp4.html

----------


## Shadow

I use this one as well. Becarefull on the CO2 nut, it break easily if you tighten too much.

----------


## illumnae

It's not broken yet *fingers crossed*, but I'm not getting CO2 levels that I need from this system, so I either got to change my solenoid to one that works (which one works???) or go back to using a normal diffuser  :Sad:

----------


## illumnae

Problem solved! It was the check valve after the bubble counter giving problems.

I think because it was "blocking" the high pressure backflow due to the inline diffuser, the "door" was slammed shut and CO2 was not permitted to go through the correct way either. This resulted in very high pressure within the bubble counter itself causing bubble count to slow down. Luckily problem solved - otherwise huge pressure in the BC may end up causing a mini explosion!

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Problem solved! It was the check valve after the bubble counter giving problems.
> 
> I think because it was "blocking" the high pressure backflow due to the inline diffuser, the "door" was slammed shut and CO2 was not permitted to go through the correct way either. This resulted in very high pressure within the bubble counter itself causing bubble count to slow down. Luckily problem solved - otherwise huge pressure in the BC may end up causing a mini explosion!


Just curious, did you change the check valve to another one?

----------


## illumnae

No I just removed it

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> No I just removed it


No check valve? Wouldn't the tank water gradually flow back into your bubble counter when the Co2 is off?

----------


## illumnae

Its a long way to flow upstream. Filter is under the table and co2 cylinder is on the table (office tank). Also, I haven't encountered water filling the outside portion of the inline diffuser yet. There's also a check valve before the bubble counter to help maintain pressure even after the co2 is switched off.

Anyone recommend a check valve that works with the inline diffuser? The metal ones don't

----------


## felix_fx2

I use this, but i broke the screw 2 times. Managed to replace them with a brass screw from my needle valve on spare regulator set.

P.S: whats that part name, think i wanna buy a few more haha

----------


## Shadow

I use the same model, quite good although look bulky

----------


## felix_fx2

this is one of the few that have a nut to lock the airtube in place, bubble counter with lock easier to find.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Its a long way to flow upstream. Filter is under the table and co2 cylinder is on the table (office tank). Also, I haven't encountered water filling the outside portion of the inline diffuser yet. There's also a check valve before the bubble counter to help maintain pressure even after the co2 is switched off.
> 
> Anyone recommend a check valve that works with the inline diffuser? The metal ones don't



Yeah, i noticed in your video the Co2 tank is placed above the canister filter, that probably prevents back flow. The Co2 tubing is really long too so it'll take more time after the system is off for any residual pressure in the tubing to dissolve and let the water back flow in, probably before that happens the Co2 system is back on again anyways.  :Smile: 

Interesting observation about the metal check valve possibly being too strong in terms of blocking the gas flow... i guess different check valves probably have different levels of pressure tolerance.

----------


## illumnae

Yup! Definitely a learning experience for me. I ended up not closing the needle valve enough overnight after fixing the system and came to office today to all my fish gasping at the surface as CO2 comes on 1 hour before I come to work (surprisingly the CRS were fine). And this is with the lily pipe lifted to encourage oxygen exchange overnight.

The boraras are fine now after I stopped the CO2 for an hour. Otos and cories still looking weak. I hope they recover  :Sad:

----------


## David

Those look really like Dennerle and Bioplast type of one way valve.

----------


## felix_fx2

> Those look really like Dennerle and Bioplast type of one way valve.


its below $5, dennerle one is much.more costly.

----------


## Shadow

$2-$3 only, very cheap

----------


## erwinx

I've read through the interesting thread and the points made are worth summarising. 

Could I ask a few qn as I am going to set up CO2 soon:

(1) There has been discussion about inline needing high psi. How do I know if the equipment I'm buying will be able to deliver the psi needed for inline reactor if that is the best method? Or should most equipment be able to deliver the PSI needed?

(2) Does needing high psi for inline reactor translate to more CO2 delivered? I.e. inline reactor will be delivering a lot of Co2 to the tank, and not all tanks need that much Co2? 


also recommendations of where to get full CO2 setup also appreciated. I just went East Ocean they got no stock...

----------


## bennyc

> I've read through the interesting thread and the points made are worth summarising. 
> 
> Could I ask a few qn as I am going to set up CO2 soon:
> 
> (1) There has been discussion about inline needing high psi. How do I know if the equipment I'm buying will be able to deliver the psi needed for inline reactor if that is the best method? Or should most equipment be able to deliver the PSI needed?
> 
> I believed you can only see the working PSI after it is connected to the CO2 tank. From most feedback, (you have to look at the different brands mention in the previous posts of users) different brands required different working PSI. Therefore, try to choose the one that does not require such a high working psi. From what i gather most of the inline diffuser required a high psi. Alternative, you can consider CO2 reactor but they are quite bulky.
> 
> (2) Does needing high psi for inline reactor translate to more CO2 delivered? I.e. inline reactor will be delivering a lot of Co2 to the tank, and not all tanks need that much Co2? 
> ...



It depends where you stay.

Nayang seaview (seletar farmway), NA (near thomson medical) provides one to one exchange to topup Co2 if you buy from them (it saves times and money as you do not have to go collect another day.

Bioplast(near boon keng mrt) provides sameday topup. 

Clementi blk 328 local fish shop also sells co2.

And of course the buy and sell market at AQ will have people selling their 2nd hand set at a good price, just have to look out for it.

----------


## felix_fx2

> I've read through the interesting thread and the points made are worth summarising. 
> 
> Could I ask a few qn as I am going to set up CO2 soon:
> 
> (1) There has been discussion about inline needing high psi. How do I know if the equipment I'm buying will be able to deliver the psi needed for inline reactor if that is the best method? Or should most equipment be able to deliver the PSI needed?
> 
> (2) Does needing high psi for inline reactor translate to more CO2 delivered? I.e. inline reactor will be delivering a lot of Co2 to the tank, and not all tanks need that much Co2? 
> 
> 
> also recommendations of where to get full CO2 setup also appreciated. I just went East Ocean they got no stock...


when you connect the regulator there are 2 indicator. One is for the tank the other is working pressure/pressure inside regulator.
Check with the LFS before you buy.

high psi does not directly translate to better co2 enrichment. (example you have high PSI but hook it to a simple [email protected])
These inline are much thicker and Co2 that can squeeze out are smaller, also harder and more air pressure require to squeeze them out.

Generally speaking, smaller bubbles seems to stay longer in water and better for enrichment.
Personal view is more surface area and stay longer in water, but some other views might differ thou we all think small bubbles are better.

Co2 set,You can see how fast you get back your tank (1hour or 2-3 days after) and where the LFS is. For drivers i see them preferring a personal aluminum tank & are stuck with BIOPLAST if they want on spot refill.

I am using NA myself, since i can just walk over and 1-1 exchange to a prefilled tank. (they still offer top up for personal tank but there is a wait time.)

----------


## bennyc

When i have the time, i could summarise the thread. Info is in too many thread.

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## erwinx

The info in the thread gave me the confidence to take the plunge to get CO2. Went to C328 and the uncle recommended Ocean Free Solenoid with screw in bubble counter/check valve. Seems to be a ok product. (annoyance was one of the required washers was tied together with the power cord - didn't notice and installed without the washer, hear hissing sound, and then found the washer... so far so good, but all this additional tubing, hope nothing comes loose...

For the diffuser, I believe its an Up-Aqua 'single sheath' inline diffuser. Seems ok but CO2 bublles do gather in the reactor after some time.

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## bennyc

Congrats! Can go hi tech tank now. Since you got it from c328, maybe you can look for 2nd hand cylinders as backup, while you waiting for your topup.

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## Urban Aquaria

> For the diffuser, I believe its an Up-Aqua 'single sheath' inline diffuser. Seems ok but CO2 bublles do gather in the reactor after some time.


Just curious, are you using an inline diffuser and reactor together in the same line?

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## felix_fx2

think its the commonly found version . the one with 1 ceremic tube, most are the thinner tube.

reactor maybe mean the chamber where the tubes are housed. 
Or perhaps he orthodox like i was haha...

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## milk_vanilla

Ans solenoid, with first generation up inline diffuser, been a year. So far so good, didn't experience with pressure issue. Even my ans indicator is showing 25 psi.

I stocked up 1 more diffuser, just in case it broke off  :Wink:

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## erwinx

sorry Urban, probably my use of terminology is not precise. I am only using an Up-Aqua inline diffusor not reactor. It only has the small ceramic tube, whereas theres a twin version with both small and large tube. I followed the C328 uncle's recommendation and purchased the single small tube version.

I guess the next challenge is to ensure that the CO2 matches the lighting intensity or vice-versa...

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## felix_fx2

folks who using the UP aqua new inline, need your info about which unit you buy and how are you using it.

I bought the double tube one, had a ton of problems when trying to hold everything nicely to get mist.
Now i am using only larger tube, able to get mist but got this feeling lose double tube abit. I already tuned down my BPS to desired level and just nice got some smaller mist.

Which combination you guys using.

@Urban, the seal when i used just the larger tube is much better. Not yet test smaller tube.

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## Urban Aquaria

> folks who using the UP aqua new inline, need your info about which unit you buy and how are you using it.
> 
> I bought the double tube one, had a ton of problems when trying to hold everything nicely to get mist.
> Now i am using only larger tube, able to get mist but got this feeling lose double tube abit. I already tuned down my BPS to desired level and just nice got some smaller mist.
> 
> Which combination you guys using.
> 
> @Urban, the seal when i used just the larger tube is much better. Not yet test smaller tube.


I guess it depends on the fitment of the ceramic tubes and rubber spacers within the individual units... because of the modular parts for ease of cleaning, there is a tendency for tiny gaps to appear whenever its taken apart and fixed back together, usually have to adjust until it gets a good seal.

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## felix_fx2

@urban, think mine construction not so good. besides the finish around the o ring, i found when using just 1 tube the seal actually better & formed within 2hours a tight seal. when i used 2 tubes after 4 days no good seal.

ill try swapping the smaller tube after i got time. (confirm after my mom operation is done, right now no time) then i will post a update, if i can a video.

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## Urban Aquaria

Maybe the variations in fit between the large and small ceramic tubes might be affecting how well it seals when both are installed (one might be just slightly longer than the other)... probably have to mix and match the parts to find the best fit.

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## felix_fx2

the length of the tubes did came up to me as cause as well & finishing of the cover.

i still left some teflon tape inside to help the seal when i used the large one.

lots of thing can affect such a set which can take apart. maybe the 1st version which is sealed tight be better for not so tech folks.

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## guppies_79

I thought I should post my questions here rather to start up another new problem thread. After gathering the preferred choice for CO2 delivery system, I got myself the up aqua new "inline super diffuser" system (as per picture above shared by erwinx). Happily, I set it up to a second hand pressurized CO2 tank (with solenoid, dual gauges) which I bought in the Marketplace forum. 

FYI, I am new to pressurized CO2 set-up. After turning on the CO2 cylinder, my working pressure reads 50psi and the cylinder pressure reads 900psi. And when I turn on the needle valve, my working pressure drops below 50psi. In general, when I increase the bps, the lower the working pressure. Therefore, I have to tune the bps release such that my working pressure hovers between 35-40psi. The up aqua inline diffuser requires at least 36psi to work. Is what I am experiencing normal? Is working pressure correlates to bps? Can I turn the CO2 cylinder to the max to increase my working pressure? 

Next I notice there are no air bubbles visible in the diffuser chamber even after I left it on for >1 hr. I set the release at 2bps. Is this also to be expected?

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## felix_fx2

try pushing higher bps until the tube inside fizzes/bubbles.

you can see your actual working pressures range after, say 20mins...

when it's not delivering co2 its not working pressures. yet.

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## guppies_79

Hi felix, thank you for the suggestion. I try that later tonight. And report if it works.  :Roll Eyes:

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## guppies_79

Hi felix, I tried what u suggest. Increase the bps till I see bubbles fizzle in the inline chamber. Left it for at least 30mins. But the working pressure still shows 30psi only. the outlet pipe also sprays out little bubbles into the tank. 
Am i doing things right?

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

Just wondering if you had turned the main valve to the max.?


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## guppies_79

@eric, nope. I only half turn the main valve. u reckon I should fully turn on the main valve?

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## Urban Aquaria

The working pressure on the gauge will naturally decrease due to back pressure when the system is in operation... as long as you see tiny bubbles coming out of the ceramic tube inside the inline diffuser, its working properly.

The outflow pipe should spray out tiny bubbles which are small enough not to float, so they would ideally be circulated around the plants on the substrate.

Btw, if you want to decrease the time it takes for the bubbles to start forming, just reduce the length of the Co2 tubing so that pressure builds up faster in the diffuser.

And yes, you should open the main valve fully, or else that can sometimes restrict flow too.

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## Suzerolt

I'm using an Up Inline atomizer 
P1070104.jpg


But feel that the misting is making the tank look "cloudy". Anyone feels this is annoying? ( because i'm trying to get the water as clear as possible)
Currently set up at about 3bps for a 3ft tank.


I assume that an inline reactor such as the ISTA turbo reactor like the one Urban Aquaria would have less mist. Comments?
$(KGrHqMOKpIE7FS-o!B,BRglzW!ss!~~60_35.JPG

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## milk_vanilla

Misting, yes a bit 'kamciong' when you see first time, in long run you get used to it  :Wink: 

Or else if you switch to rain bar, i feel better, probably mist scattered nicely rather than massively come out from the output glass.

Never use the reactor jet, other aquarist might have better review and experience.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yes, inline diffusers which use ceramic tubes will create a mist effect... there are some theories that the tiny bubbles getting swirled around and settling directly on plant leaves allow them to absorb the pure Co2 more effectively. I guess that theory is debatable though.

If you're not keen on seeing the misty effect in your tank, then consider trying an inline Co2 reactor instead, if matched properly with your canister filter flow rate and bubble count, you will not see any bubbles or mist as they will be completely dissolved in the reactor before reaching the outflow pipe.

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## guppies_79

@UA, thank you for your suggestions. I have turn on the main valve fully now. Yes, I managed to get tiny bubbles fizzing from the ceramic tube in the diffuser and outflow pipe. But that also means I need to increase the bps to get this effects. And this brings me to a new set of problems  :Sad: . I measure the pH and it is very acidic, bet 4.5 to 5. But the drop checker still shows blue after more than 2 hrs. I am confused now  :Sad:

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## Urban Aquaria

> @UA, thank you for your suggestions. I have turn on the main valve fully now. Yes, I managed to get tiny bubbles fizzing from the ceramic tube in the diffuser and outflow pipe. But that also means I need to increase the bps to get this effects. And this brings me to a new set of problems . I measure the pH and it is very acidic, bet 4.5 to 5. But the drop checker still shows blue after more than 2 hrs. I am confused now


Do monitor the bps after the system is on for a few hours, the initial higher bps is due to the system still building up pressure within the Co2 tubing and inline diffuser, once the necessary pressure is achieved, the actual bps could be different, so use that as a point of reference for the settings.

If your tank is still in the midst of cycling with ADA Amazonia Aquasoil, then the pH could drop below 6.0 (sometimes even down to 5.0 or lower, depending on ratio of new soil vs water volume), and with Co2 being injected, the pH will drop even lower. Once the tank is fully cycled, the pH should become more stable.

Also check your drop checker indicator solution, make sure its those type that are pre-mixed, otherwise you'll need to mix it with 4dkh water to make it work properly.

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## guppies_79

@UA, I am using borneowild plant soil. I have been cycling the tank for the past 2 weeks without CO2. And the pH is stable at 6. Then pH starts to drop drastic after injecting CO2. I measure the pH yesterday night and its stable at 4.5 to 5. This is 4 days after CO2 injection. I use 4dkh solution in the drop checker and it still shows blue. Sorry TS, i know we are drifting off topic here. But how do I start bring up the pH?

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## Urban Aquaria

Maybe the tank is still cycling so the pH is lower than usual... i guess you could wait until its fully cycled and see if the pH stabilizes abit higher.

Since you measured the pH dropping after Co2 is injected, it means the Co2 is being dissolved in the water... the only issue now is your drop checker doesn't seem to be working properly so you don't have any indication of the approximate Co2 ppm levels (it could be really high and accumulating everyday, hence the large sustained drop in pH).

Not sure why your current indicator solution isn't working though. Perhaps post up info on the indicator solution you are using and also post a photo of how you position the drop checker in the tank?

It might be a good idea to just get the pre-mixed indicator solution and try that in your drop checker, at least you could have a tried and tested benchmark to check the Co2 levels.

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## erwinx

Reading other forums, people seem to think that dissolving co2 fully appears to be "turbulence" so bio ball reactors are considered the most effective. 

Googling for diy bio ball reactor projects shows that in their quest for zero visible co2, people build pretty large bio ball reactors.... which suggests that if you want zero visible Co2, you have to go all the way and build a big reactor.

Though frankly, instead of building a DIY reactor, if you have a powerful enough flowrate, just buy an eheim 250 prefilter, fill it with bio balls (thats like 3 litres worth!), and attach it after your current CO2 reactor.... I'm sure there'll be a big reduction in visible co2. As the eheim prefilter has no motor, there is no issue of co2 air pockets forming and damaging the impeller.

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## Suzerolt

Good tip to use a canister filter + bio ball. I will experiment it.

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## Urban Aquaria

If anyone is keen on inline Co2 reactors, i'd recommend the ISTA inline turbo reactor, so far i've been getting pretty much 100% dissolve rate (based on using it with a 750 l/ph Eheim Ecco Pro 300), the inbuilt self-propelled rotor system really chops up and mixes the Co2 completely. I've since switched all my tanks over to using these inline reactors too... the price is less than $20 at most LFS anyways, quite okay in terms of cost.

Note that the size of these reactors have to be matched to the canister filter's flow rate (they have recommended flow rates on the box instructions), if the reactor model is too large and the flow rate is not high enough to match it, the overall flow might be affected.

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## milk_vanilla

Urban, 

Interesting option, is the big reactor model support up to 1250l/h canister ?

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## Suzerolt

I purchased the ISTA turbo reactor today to try out. In brief, i'm quite happy with it. Thanks Urban Aquaria for the recommendation.
There seems to be only one model rated at 360L-1000L/hr. Hose size 12mm. I purchased it at C328.

Just to share, my set up Outflow -> Eheim 2017 prefilter (full of sponge) -> Eheim Professional 2 (full of bio media)-> Chiller -> tank inflow.
I measured it running at ~ 650 L/hr this morning before adding the ISTA turbo reactor.

Some bubbles (not much) are seen in the lily pipe into the tank but that is coming from the bubbles generated by the impeller of the reactor. It is not undissolved CO2. 
At least the tank looks much clearer now. Before that, the mist from the inline atomizer made the tank appear cloudy.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I purchased the ISTA turbo reactor today to try out. In brief, i'm quite happy with it. Thanks Urban Aquaria for the recommendation.
> There seems to be only one model rated at 360L-1000L/hr. Hose size 12mm. I purchased it at C328.
> 
> Just to share, my set up Outflow -> Eheim 2017 prefilter (full of sponge) -> Eheim Professional 2 (full of bio media)-> Chiller -> tank inflow.
> I measured it running at ~ 650 L/hr this morning before adding the ISTA turbo reactor.
> 
> Some bubbles (not much) are seen in the lily pipe into the tank but that is coming from the bubbles generated by the impeller of the reactor. It is not undissolved CO2. 
> At least the tank looks much clearer now. Before that, the mist from the inline atomizer made the tank appear cloudy.


Cool... glad that you found the Co2 reactor which works for your setup too.  :Smile: 





> Urban, 
> 
> Interesting option, is the big reactor model support up to 1250l/h canister ?


The ISTA inline turbo reactor is rated for 360-1,000 l/ph canister filters... so far i haven't seen a larger version of that particular model design using the same system though (the 16/22 one uses an inline ceramic diffusion system).

Alternatively, you could look at the ISTA Mix Max reactors, they have a different casing design but use the same in-built rotor system, and they come in 2 sizes. The M-size is rated for 360-1,000 l/ph and the L-size (which has a longer reactor chamber) is rated for 1,000-2,000 l/ph. So for your particular canister filter, the L-size version is probably more suitable.




Source: http://www.istaproducts.com/details+...9/products/62/

Here is their product demo video:





I actually have the M-size version and tried it out, it works well too. The only issue i find with the Mix Max reactors is that they don't have lock nuts on the hose connections (unlike the "turbo" version), so you might want to buy additional hose clips to make sure they stay securely connected during operation.

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## milk_vanilla

Thanks Urban,

Last thing, how noisy they are compare to up iniline diffuser? Which apparently UP just sound mild 'hisss' in my system.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Last thing, how noisy they are compare to up iniline diffuser? Which apparently UP just sound mild 'hisss' in my system.


Well, i do notice abit of mild "trickling" sounds (depending on how much Co2 bps is injected) with such reactor systems when its operating, its from the pocket of Co2 swirling around in the chamber. Not very audible if you have it installed inside a tank cabinet though.

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## milk_vanilla

Thank you for the details Urban.


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## bennyc

> @UA, I am using borneowild plant soil. I have been cycling the tank for the past 2 weeks without CO2. And the pH is stable at 6. Then pH starts to drop drastic after injecting CO2. I measure the pH yesterday night and its stable at 4.5 to 5. This is 4 days after CO2 injection. I use 4dkh solution in the drop checker and it still shows blue. Sorry TS, i know we are drifting off topic here. But how do I start bring up the pH?


 Hi no worries, co2 injection is an artform. I am learning as well.

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

The above was the initially what I was looking for, but then EOA had yet to bring this particular model in. Subsequently, I found ISTA's Max Mix (med) which intention is similar but instead of gravity pull force, it makes use of propellors:


I had since installed it inside my tank:




as it is in the tank under water, there is hardly any noise as compared when you install it outside of your tank. Mixing CO2 into water is a wonder, there is hardly any visible CO2 bubbles coming out of the mixer, you will need to observe very carefully in order to spot the mist that is coming out of the mixer.

My set-up is a little different from the rest, instead of connecting my mixer to my canister filter, I connected it to a pump, Eheim Compact 300 to be precise. I note that the required L/hour is between 360-1,000 L/hour, however I am only using a 300L/hour pump. This created a CO2 pocket at the top of the mixer if you let your CO2 (if you are running at around 3bps) run for around 6hours or more. This is due to the fact that the flowrate is not high enough to completely mix the CO2 (given the pressure of 3bps) that is at the same time flowing into the mixer. To me, the mixer had somewhat became a CO2 storage area that will mix CO2 into water (taking its own sweet time) even when my solenoid valve is turned off. Thus saving some CO2 in the event.

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## fookie

Which co2 reactor can I use with eheim2211? It seems that 2211 flow rate is lower than the recommended. This is for my 30cm cube tank.. Thank you

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## Urban Aquaria

> Which co2 reactor can I use with eheim2211? It seems that 2211 flow rate is lower than the recommended. This is for my 30cm cube tank.. Thank you


You could still try using the ISTA turbo or mix max reactors... the main issue with using lower flow canister filters with such reactors is that the built-in impellers will spin slower and the Co2 bubbles will tend to dissolve at a slower rate too. If the bps count is too high, the Co2 being pumped into the top of the reactor might accumulate too much and create a large pocket of gas, resulting in the reactor becoming quite noisy. 

I guess maybe if the Co2 injection rate is slower, it could work out to balance the slower dissolve rate. For a 1ft cube tank, maybe you can try injecting just 1/3 or 1/2 bps of Co2 to start with, then increase the bps in stages until you get the ideal bps rate.

An alternative is to use a powerhead/pump connected to the Co2 reactor submerged inside the tank, like how ConcaveLiNkiN did with his set, that will also work too (though it'll take up space inside the tank).

Co2 reactors have very high efficiency, so you actually may not need to pump in high bps to get optimal Co2 levels anyways, in my 2ft tanks i only need to run 1 bps and my drop checker already maintains a constant lime green color and the plants are pearling well.

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## fookie

Thank you very much 

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## milk_vanilla

Bought ista max mix from one of the member, as he dismantle his set. I set same bps output as what i had before with up inline diffuser. My observation so far my drop checker stay to green or dark green, whilst beforehand it's easy to make it lime green. Urban or other do you experience the same?


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## Urban Aquaria

> Bought ista max mix from one of the member, as he dismantle his set. I set same bps output as what i had before with up inline diffuser. My observation so far my drop checker stay to green or dark green, whilst beforehand it's easy to make it lime green. Urban or other do you experience the same?


I guess the dissolve rate depends on the flow rate, bps, tank volume etc... but in my case i stuck to the same bps and the drop checker still showed the same lime green color when lights on. You'll probably have to let it run for a few days and adjust the bps and on/off timings to get the optimal settings.

The difference in reaction time you experienced could be from the difference in how both systems work. 

From my observations, in an inline ceramic diffuser, once its is switched on, within a few minutes the whole tank is full of tiny Co2 bubbles (and some of it probably swirl around the drop checker hence faster color change), then when switched off, the Co2 bubbles disappear very quickly... compare that to inline reactors which mix in Co2 in a more gradual pace, it gradually forms a pocket of Co2 at the top of the reactor and the impellers steadily chop and mix it, and even after the solenoid is off, there is usually still a pocket of Co2 still left in there which gets dissolved over time.

With that in mind, i've lately tested adjusting my solenoid to switch of 90 minutes before lights off (instead of 60 minutes), so that the residual pocket of Co2 in the reactor is fully dissolved and used up while the lights are still on, helps to reduce the overall Co2 concentration during night time.

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## milk_vanilla

it's been 3 days using max mix, my drop checker still stay at green, never hit lime green regardless from on to off co2 period. 

Initially i decided to not playing around with my co2 timer and BPS, as i would observe for while to see the difference between this reactor and my previous diffuser. 

Today i' am thinking to stick with the same timing period (1.5 hr before light on , 1 hr before light off) but with higher bps, and see how it makes the difference.

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## qngwn

I am using the ista max mix for my low height tank. The tank has a height of 20 cm, which not only puts a constraint on what plants I put, but also what equipment I use. 

Due to the height, normal ceramic diffusers are not able to work as well as the bubbles reach the surface very quickly due to the low height, thus a low dissolving rate. This is one of the main reasons that I am using the max mix. 

I have no problem getting the same or better plant grow using the max mix as compared to the normal ceramic diffusers. Drop checkers are just a gauge, and not a 100% accurate instrument to indicate the dissolved co2 content in the water. It will be best if you can monitor the plant growth. I am sure that for the max mix, the water in the whole tank is evenly mixed with co2 as compared to ceramic diffusers which bubbles sometimes do not really get around the whole tank. 

The drop checker indicates only the local co2 concentration. It will only be fair if you got numerous drop checkers all around to compare both items (:

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## milk_vanilla

Thanks for all advice guys,

Indeed drop checker is not 100% reliable or tool that we could totally rely on. Plant observation and response is the best accurate gauge. However it takes time before you realize that they are suffering from co2, and some plant can easily recovered and some you might need to prune and replants some healthy nodes, which i might not a good idea to have this circumstances. 

Alternatively i measure ph drop level before co2 on and when the light on, so far i got reasonably good result, it was 1.0 level dropped. Will see how it goes next


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## milk_vanilla

An update,

I finally returned back to inline atomizer, as i feel the reactor reduce the flow rate a lot that i initially could think of. I got mild GSA on glass and leaves of slow growth plant , some plants section are melted especially to some spots where it got weak flow.
Which this rarely happened before, i tried to maintain the same bubble count etc. and same ph level drop level during co2 on and lights on ( between reactor and atomizer)

I'm not giving contradiction feedback to reactor owner or those who want try reactor. 

Meanwhile I'm not keen to upgrade my filter to higher rate model to compensate this.

Hope it returns to normal.





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## Urban Aquaria

Interesting... just curious, what was your filter flow rate and which Mix Max reactor model did you use? And did you also have any other equipment installed inline too?

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## milk_vanilla

I'm using eheim pro 3, that theoretically provide 1250l/h with ista max mix L size.

I think it was mistake, should use M size instead. Eheim is suffered with flow degradation a lot once we filled with media and not maintain it's cleanliness due diligently

I tried to clean the filter every month, but sometime it's dragged to 2 month.

Probably if i strike toto one day, i will come back to reactor powered by super jet  :Wink: 




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## Urban Aquaria

> I'm using eheim pro 3, that theoretically provide 1250l/h with ista max mix L size.
> 
> I think it was mistake, should use M size instead. Eheim is suffered with flow degradation a lot once we filled with media and not maintain it's cleanliness due diligently
> 
> I tried to clean the filter every month, but sometime it's dragged to 2 month.
> 
> Probably if i strike toto one day, i will come back to reactor powered by super jet


Yeah, maybe the M-size Mix Max might have been more suitable for your setup, since the filter's listed flow rate is just slightly above the reactor recommendation... especially after flow reduction over time is factored in.

I guess for anyone looking at these reactors, the flow recommendation for the models should probably be based on actual operational flow rate, rather than listed filter flow rates.  :Smile:

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## milk_vanilla

Yeah mate, m should ideal in the very first place . That's fine, i considered my tank as a hobby, not taking any profit from it, rise and fall does not make any difference.


Recently I removed my brass bubble counter, meaning the atomizer directly attached to solenoid. I give up by keep replacing the counter, cause i found it's keep causing mild gas leak after use it some time. I tried to seal here and there to stop the leakage. In the end i feel why not taking this stuff away and directly attached.

Quite high risk for the fauna, since I might no longer able to take the bubble measurement anymore, but i still have drop checker or ph meter to monitor the drop swing level and also my fish behavior as the best indicator i have. The challenge is you might have other daily activities, so we might not able to take immediate action if something bad happen. 

This is a high risk, but in other side, i'm eliminating one possibility point of common leakage, and my short observation is i don't have to open my output needle higher in order to achieve same co2 level compare to use bubble counter previously. I guess because my counter had been suffered with leakages though they are mild but still deteriorate the overall pressure.

Later,


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## Dodofish

Hmm does anyone experiencing mild hissing sound from up aqua inline atomiser?

is this normal?

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## felix_fx2

> Hmm does anyone experiencing mild hissing sound from up aqua inline atomiser?
> 
> is this normal?


which version?

version 1 never use before, so I cannot comment.

new version 2 tube I have that sound... half of that time.... is some bloody leak... the seal not so fantastic.

but but... working time should have a very soft hiss... not too obvious.

use soap water test... 

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hmm does anyone experiencing mild hissing sound from up aqua inline atomiser?
> 
> is this normal?


I've used the 1st gen atomizer model before and i didn't notice any hissing sound, was very quiet.

An audible hissing sound might indicate a tiny slow leak somewhere in the unit, better to check with soap water test (like what felix_fx2 mentioned), or dip the whole unit into a small container of water while its operating and observe if any small bubbles emerge outside of the set.

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## Dodofish

I think it should be generation 2. The box stated d-508, I also notice the hissing sound is mild, was reading some other forums, a lot feedback on this issue as well.

I just worried that I bought a defective one since the seal on sticker was not around. The other thing I notice is there's quite heavy condensation happening inside the atomiser. 

But overall I must say efficiency level of co2 is very good, because I am getting a lot of pearling from plants which I don't see with my diffusers. 

Will try to give it a soapy bath and see if it is really leaking or is it just a sound effect.  :Laughing: 


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## Suzerolt

Did you use any white plumber's tape with the brass bubble counter? This should help with the screw joints. 
For o ring joints, I use Vaseline to solve leaks there.

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## Mookie

Bought a up aqua inline diffuser twin ceramic earlier and was a disaster. After cutting my outlet tube, and fixing the item on, there was a leak on the base of co2 inlet pipe. Was totally lost on what to do next, so I ran to NTUC to buy some epoxy, hoping that that will solve the problem. Putting another layer of super glue on it didn't stop the leak... Left it leaking in a basin and ran down East ocean again for a replacement.... Wasted half a day just to install an inline diffuser hahah now using the single ceramic one cos they out of stock on the twin, but don't see bubbles...will go try figure it all out tomorrow.

Bros, better do a leak test on the inline diffuser before installing, cos a small leak can be really nerve wrecking.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, inline atomizers/diffusers that use ceramic tubes sometimes have QC and fitment issues, so the seal is not 100%, i guess it depends on luck. I had to exchange my set twice (and adjust the rubber seals) before getting a properly working version that created tiny bubbles.

Btw, if you only see larger bubbles and not small misty bubbles, soaking the ceramic tubes in de-clorinated water for a day can help it work better too.

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## bennyc

How intense diffusers? Rarely heard complains. Higher quality control or less users due to pricing?

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## Mookie

Today I took on the inline diffuser again, realized I had abit of leak at the bubble counter that's why it wasn't misting. But after using some plumbing white tape... The mist appeared and my plants were pearling like no tomorrow! Never seen such an effect with my glass ceramic diffuser. Changing to an inline diffuser was definitely a good choice!  :Grin:  Will move onto to a reactor once I get tired of the mist haha

Will take note of using the declorinated water, thanks for another tip UA!

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## milk_vanilla

Just an update, 

I swapped my up inline diffuser into inflow/intake direction, formerly was at outflow side. With the same output level, my ph swing is dropped rapidly. From 6.6 ->5.6 to 6.6 -> 5.1 after light come out. Fishes was gasping but not death.

I reduce the output, now the swing changed 6.6 -> 5.4. With lower co2 output, it brings efficiency on my co2 cylinder usage too. Co2 well diluted within the water.

No more misty seen, water are crystal clear, more pearling on plants too and looks healthier. I keep my light intensity and Ei ferts dosage. 

Been 2 months i've applied this .

Later





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## Mookie

> Just an update, 
> 
> I swapped my up inline diffuser into inflow/intake direction, formerly was at outflow side. With the same output level, my ph swing is dropped rapidly. From 6.6 ->5.6 to 6.6 -> 5.1 after light come out. Fishes was gasping but not death.
> 
> I reduce the output, now the swing changed 6.6 -> 5.4. With lower co2 output, it brings efficiency on my co2 cylinder usage too. Co2 well diluted within the water.
> 
> No more misty seen, water are crystal clear, more pearling on plants too and looks healthier. I keep my light intensity and Ei ferts dosage. 
> 
> Been 2 months i've applied this .
> ...


I'm also thinking of doing the same, would prefer to do without the mist effect. Any problems with gas build-up in canister? Or canister making funny noises?

----------


## milk_vanilla

I removed half of my filter media, it probably chocked 1-2 times within 8 hrs photoperiod. Shouldn't be an issue


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## Mookie

> I removed half of my filter media, it probably chocked 1-2 times within 8 hrs photoperiod. Shouldn't be an issue
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe I would just go with a reactor then, thanks for the feedback

----------


## milk_vanilla

Recently went to seaview, the new up inline atomizer is available at store.

The old model but removable for internal cleaning sake.

I bought one, will try  :Wink: 


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## Mookie

> Recently went to seaview, the new up inline atomizer is available at store.
> 
> The old model but removable for internal cleaning sake.
> 
> I bought one, will try 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


can a post a picture?

----------


## milk_vanilla

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399947766.593347.jpg


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## LN_NL

Hi guys... My nano tank is using Gex HOF..so i cant really use these kind of atomizer. Im thinking of just putting the diffuser just right below the water intake, to let it suck the bubbles away into the filter to dissolved and clearer water. Do u think it helps? Will it affect my filter or bacteria? Thanks

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## milk_vanilla

It's possible, but it may not effective, hob is like overflow wet/dry, it may turned into lot of co2 loses. Bacteria only bothered with o2 level, not co2


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## LN_NL

Same thought too.. And nano tank is too small to make any changes.. Guess ill hv to stick with seeing bubbles like champagne :/

----------


## tureblue82

hey guys...in terms of efficiency.......which is better? currently using the right one.

superdiffuser.jpgglassdiffuser.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

From various similar types of diffusers that i've tried before, the design in your left photo is usually made with higher density ceramic and therefore creates tinier Co2 bubbles (smaller the bubbles the better), but it requires higher working pressure to work properly.

Note that such ceramic diffusers are not all made to the same density or quality, so the actual product may not work the same. You'll have to test them to find out for sure.

----------


## tureblue82

oh i see!..very prompt reply, thanks!....i follow your blog by the way~ lots of nice inpiration for me. :Grin:

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## tureblue82

as i don't have an external filter, this seems like a good alternative..and theory seems to suggest it is more efficient at dissolving co2 into the water?... :Laughing: 

co2reactor.jpg opinions?

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## Urban Aquaria

> as i don't have an external filter, this seems like a good alternative..and theory seems to suggest it is more efficient at dissolving co2 into the water?...
> 
> Attachment 42932 opinions?


Reactors can help to dissolve Co2 into the water much more efficiently. 

Though without an external filter, you'll have to put that particular Co2 reactor into the tank itself, connected to a submersible pump or powerhead to pump water through it. It'll work too, but just takes up space inside the tank.  :Smile:

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## tureblue82

wow! i bought the co2 reactor yesterday and i am amazed at the efficiency of it dissolving co2!!

i had co2 running for a few days with a ceramic diffuser with powerhead blowing it - no pearling
yesterday bought a co2 reactor at 6pm and installed it, one hour later pearling starts! :Shocked: 


To anyone browsing this thread for ideas.... 

junk the ceramic diffuser unless you like the bubbling effect (and aesthetics) and get the inline co2 diffuser if you have an external filter or get the co2 reactor for maximum efficiency and lesser co2 wastage. :Wink:

----------


## blu3her0

> as i don't have an external filter, this seems like a good alternative..and theory seems to suggest it is more efficient at dissolving co2 into the water?...
> 
> Attachment 42932 opinions?


I think I had seen this product at work in aquariums ever since my childhood...from my limited knowledge, I think the design of this diffuser prolongs the contact time of the co2 bubbles with the water due to the balls inside.

Seems to work well, except that the design may not be to everyone's liking.

----------


## milk_vanilla

Colleague went to London for business trip, i had asked him to buy me co2art dual stage solenoid, anyone are using their solenoid before? Seems quite reliable according to Uk local forum. There's currently special price at the moment.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Colleague went to London for business trip, i had asked him to buy me co2art dual stage solenoid, anyone are using their solenoid before? Seems quite reliable according to Uk local forum. There's currently special price at the moment.


Should be reliable, and the plug/voltage are the same for our local usage too, i've seen the selections on their website and they offer free worldwide shipping... though if your friend can buy it in UK for special price then it could be worth getting that deal.

----------


## ltsai

Almost bought it too.... Until I give up on the up regulator

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## milk_vanilla

I'll let you guys know once i have this installed on my cylinder. The expectation should be higher than my current ans solenoid, that been doing great job for 2 years. 


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## Shadow

I hope it can fit Singapore CO2 tank. I know the US and Singapore have different standard and size, not sure about UK. If not then you will need to get adapter

----------


## milk_vanilla

One of their lovely customer service told me it would be fit, let see. Finger crossed.


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## limz_777

looks like its using a good needle valve ?

----------


## milk_vanilla

It said using smc needle similar like it being used by ADA, we'll see

----------


## tureblue82

kind of frustrated with my regulator, cant get a stable stream of bubbles for more than 1-2hrs...adjust to about 1 bubble/sec then will very slowly drop to 0.5buble per sec and so on..zz
It's a $30 regulator with a single meter reading and a knob for adjusting the output.

You guys think if i change to the ANS dual gauge regulator with needle valve will end my frustrations?

----------


## Shadow

your is manual regulator, it is expected to be unstable

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## tureblue82

> your is manual regulator, it is expected to be unstable


Do you think the ANS dual gauge one will be a better choice?
phpThumb_generated_thumbnailjpg.jpg

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## Shadow

everything is better choice as long as not manual regulator. Brand wise does not make any different.

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## milk_vanilla

attaching co2art solenoid now, it's fit well with our cylinder thread. Their precision needle is beyond my expectation ( they claimed can go down till 1 bubble per 5 seconds, i never go that slow).

Let's see how it goes in next couple weeks / months.

----------


## limz_777

> attaching co2art solenoid now, it's fit well with our cylinder thread. Their precision needle is beyond my expectation ( they claimed can go down till 1 bubble per 5 seconds, i never go that slow).
> 
> Let's see how it goes in next couple weeks / months.


the one with the smc needle valve ?

----------


## milk_vanilla

> the one with the smc needle valve ?


That's correct.

----------


## limz_777

> That's correct.


what model number it using ?

----------


## milk_vanilla

i'm not sure if they(co2art) have specific model number, however the model that i got is "Professional Aquarium CO2 Dual Stage Regulator with German Solenoid and SMC Valve"

----------


## AQMS

Co2art will have their logo on the solenoid.
Check their ebay page for pics...
http://stores.ebay.com.sg/CO2-ART?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

----------


## AQMS

They show a 3d view of the solenoid.

----------


## milk_vanilla

it's been running for 1 week+, so far i'm very impressed with it's output accuracy.

----------


## joe

Has anyone tried the Intense CO2 regulator? The needle valve looks super precise.

----------


## AQMS

Yes,super easy to adjust and lock the setting... :Well done:

----------


## joe

> Yes,super easy to adjust and lock the setting...


Thanks! Thinking of replacing my Ocean Free one.

Does anyone know if Mr Chan (NA) will help to fix the Intense regulator if I still continue to buy the CO2 tank from him? My place is close to his shop la  :Smile:

----------


## Allan Asis

I got a medium size ISTA min max CO2 reactor as well but after 2 days I have to uninstall it.
It does worked as intended but it slow down the pump output of my EHEIM 2028 to about 40% of it's original power. I'm afraid that if I leave it like that it will break the filter's motor.
I think the issue is that the reactor's tube is 12/16 but 2028 tubing is 16/22. Then add the pressure of having to rotate the propeller and pushing the water down the reactor tube and it stresses the filter it seems.

I guess i'll keep it until I decided to inject CO2 on my low-tech tank. That one runs on 2215 filter which uses 12/16 tubing.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> I think the issue is that the reactor's tube is 12/16 but 2028 tubing is 16/22. Then add the pressure of having to rotate the propeller and pushing the water down the reactor tube and it stresses the filter it seems.


Yeah, the reduction of the hose size is what reduced the flow rate so much (its basically the similar effect as adjusting a tap to narrow the opening and slow down flow)... you'll have to find another reactor model which uses 16/22 hose ports instead to work properly with your particular filter.

----------


## BluBlur

> Yeah, the reduction of the hose size is what reduced the flow rate so much (its basically the similar effect as adjusting a tap to narrow the opening and slow down flow)... you'll have to find another reactor model which uses 16/22 hose ports instead to work properly with your particular filter.


I'm using the sera reactor, the bigger 1000 model. It is 16/22. It is paired with Eheim 2071 and a Eheim UV clarifier in-line. So far the flow rate is alright with all the chain connections, but I need to do cleaning every 3 months to upkeep the good flow rate.

----------


## Allan Asis

Where did you manage to buy that model bro? I've been checking LFS's but so far I only found a small one in NA. 

By the way I since swapped the EHEIM 2028 with the other canister filter from my low-tech tank which is EHEIM 2215. I uses a 12/16 tubing so fits the ISTA reactor perfectly. 
Today I started running it and was extremely surprised how effective a CO2 reactor is in dissolving CO2!!!
There's basically no bubble coming out of the filter outlet and every plant is pearling/oxygenating! There's too much oxygen coming out of the plants that I never seen before and I feel like I'm using an aerator haha!

----------


## BluBlur

> Where did you manage to buy that model bro? I've been checking LFS's but so far I only found a small one in NA. 
> 
> By the way I since swapped the EHEIM 2028 with the other canister filter from my low-tech tank which is EHEIM 2215. I uses a 12/16 tubing so fits the ISTA reactor perfectly. 
> Today I started running it and was extremely surprised how effective a CO2 reactor is in dissolving CO2!!!
> There's basically no bubble coming out of the filter outlet and every plant is pearling/oxygenating! There's too much oxygen coming out of the plants that I never seen before and I feel like I'm using an aerator haha!


Got it from Green Chapter, suggest you call and check the stock first... Indeed a CO2 reactor is much more efficient compared to a diffusor. I bought an Intense diffusor but gave up as it requires high pressure to work properly - but the high pressure gave other problems such as the CO2 tubing coming loose often.

----------


## Allan Asis

> Got it from Green Chapter, suggest you call and check the stock first... Indeed a CO2 reactor is much more efficient compared to a diffusor. I bought an Intense diffusor but gave up as it requires high pressure to work properly - but the high pressure gave other problems such as the CO2 tubing coming loose often.


Cool! I also almost bought the inline diffuser as well but decided to swap my filters instead so as not to waste the ISTA reactor. It was a good decision  :Smile:

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## AQMS

How about this?
Both reactor and inline diffuser at the same time :Roll Eyes:

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> How about this?
> Both reactor and inline diffuser at the same time


Interesting idea!

Though in such a setup, all of the Co2 gas would just be flowing into the reactor... gas travels via the path of least resistance, so the inline diffuser isn't being utilized, it just acts as another connector.  :Grin:

----------


## Allan Asis

> Interesting idea!
> 
> Though in such a setup, all of the Co2 gas would just be flowing into the reactor... gas travels via the path of least resistance, so the inline diffuser isn't being utilized, it just acts as another connector.


What I would do is probably just connect the CO2 tube in the inline-diffuser. So any remaining micro bubbles that gets into the reactor will easily be dissolve.

----------


## kurty

wanna ask, anyone encounter co2 regulator and solenoid that has current flowing all over?

i got this funny c02 tank, which is relatively impossible to touch, there's current on it.
had to switch off the main supply.
i suspect it could be the solenoid..
few days back, i accidentally drop the whole cylinder, might damage the solenoid unknowingly..

be bringing it to bioplast tomorrow to consult

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> wanna ask, anyone encounter co2 regulator and solenoid that has current flowing all over?
> 
> i got this funny c02 tank, which is relatively impossible to touch, there's current on it.
> had to switch off the main supply.
> i suspect it could be the solenoid..
> few days back, i accidentally drop the whole cylinder, might damage the solenoid unknowingly..
> 
> be bringing it to bioplast tomorrow to consult


Yeah, most likely the solenoid's internal wiring somehow got shorted out and live electrical current is being conducted over the whole metal tank. Best to get it repaired or replaced as soon as possible.

----------


## AQMS

> Interesting idea!
> 
> Though in such a setup, all of the Co2 gas would just be flowing into the reactor... gas travels via the path of least resistance, so the inline diffuser isn't being utilized, it just acts as another connector.


The co2 line on the left is plug with rubber stopper the one with the inline diffuser is the active one. I just grab whatever i have in my 'junk' box to set this up if i have an extra check valve i probably will use it on the reactor so i dont have to use the y connector. i actually dont like the look of it but hey...something new and something interesting... :Roll Eyes:

----------


## AQMS

Cant stand the look of the y connector so i went out to buy check valve.



now it look better... :Roll Eyes: 
Here is a glimpse of what's in the cabinet.....
jeng....jeng..jengggg..

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## Goalkeeper

Wah, so many canisters connected together! Big tank you have? I prefer inline diffuser too but last time I used I had problems (stop working) and since change back to ceramic ones. By the way, how can I clean off the greenish algae on those ceramic diffuser? Tried scrubbing but couldn't get rid of them. Still working but worry over time efficiency might be affected. Thanks.

----------


## Allan Asis

> Wah, so many canisters connected together! Big tank you have? I prefer inline diffuser too but last time I used I had problems (stop working) and since change back to ceramic ones. By the way, how can I clean off the greenish algae on those ceramic diffuser? Tried scrubbing but couldn't get rid of them. Still working but worry over time efficiency might be affected. Thanks.


That's one thing I hate about ceramic diffusers. once the algae sets in, it seems impossible to get rid of them. I tried bleach, vinegar, alcohol haha! still the stain remains there. And at some point he tiny pores that are supposed to produce the finest bubbles get clogged up perpetually leaving it very inefficient. I guess that's what I get for using cheap ones hehe. Perhaps the ADA ones don't suffer such issues.

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## kurty

Try using the cheapest bleach you can find, like abc shop.

I did a good cleaning using that, just dump the whole thing and wait for 2hrs.
As good as new

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> By the way, how can I clean off the greenish algae on those ceramic diffuser? Tried scrubbing but couldn't get rid of them. Still working but worry over time efficiency might be affected. Thanks.


You can try soaking the ceramic part in hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), it'll help dissolve the algae and dirt trapped in the ceramic pores.

----------


## Goalkeeper

Thanks bro Kurt's and UA. Will try them out. Do I need to soak in water after that to ensure they are clear from bleach/hydrogen peroxide?

----------


## Urban Aquaria

If you are using bleach, then have to soak in de-chlorinated water for a while to remove the residual chlorine before putting it back in your tank. 

If you used hydrogen peroxide, it just turns into oxygen which is harmless, so a quick rinse under the tap is sufficient before usage back in the tank.

----------


## Goalkeeper

Thanks...will try out this weekend with hydrogen peroxide.

----------


## seudzar

Don't overdose hydrogen peroxide

----------


## stream

> How about this?
> Both reactor and inline diffuser at the same time


Isn't what you have rigged up similar to this conceptually?:

Attachment 48107

This seems like having the best of both world; the CO2 is atomized into fine bubbles and the rotating blades will ensures that it is dissolved in the water before it is expelled out through the outlet.

A youtube video is https://youtu.be/OXaPiorxgAo

Anyone is using this ISTA External CO2 Ceramic Reactor Atomizer Diffuser? Care to share your experience?

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Attachment 48107
> 
> This seems like having the best of both world; the CO2 is atomized into fine bubbles and the rotating blades will ensures that it is dissolved in the water before it is expelled out through the outlet.
> 
> A youtube video is https://youtu.be/OXaPiorxgAo
> 
> Anyone is using this ISTA External CO2 Ceramic Reactor Atomizer Diffuser? Care to share your experience?


I've seen that in use before, it works more like an inline ceramic diffuser though, the rotating "wave" blade doesn't chop up or mix the bubbles, it just swishes them around as they travel up the chamber... i noticed there were still visible bubbles coming out of the outflow pipe.

Its also designed for 16/22 hoses, so you'll need to install adaptors if your canister filter uses 12/16 hoses.

----------


## AQMS

I don't use the reactor any more it is a chore to clean it when the propeller got stuck and not spinning.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> I don't use the reactor any more it is a chore to clean it when the propeller got stuck and not spinning.


Thats unusual... did you happen to place the reactor at a location that receives ample light? Might explain algae growing dense enough to clog it up and stop the rotors.

My oldest ISTA inline reactor unit has been running for more than a year without being cleaned, can see the chamber inside all golden brown with a nice layer of mulm, but so far the rotors are still spinning smoothly. That reactor unit is installed inside a tank cabinet though, so i guess it doesn't get as much accumulation of algae.

Anyways, i'll still have to clean it sometime soon, no more procrastination.  :Grin:

----------


## mercur1al

Since we are on the topic of Co2, has anyone tried this? Looks interesting.



I briefly read the instructions earlier. 

You are supposed to place a sample of the aquarium water into the holder provided, add 5 drops of test regent 1.

Subsequently, add one drop of test regent 2 at a time. The entire mixture should turn pink, and then become pale again. Keep adding regent 2, one drop at a time until the solution turns pink permanently.

The number of drops of regent 2 added multiplied by 2 should give you the Co2 PPM of your tank. Does it work? Could provide a more accurate reading of Co2 as opposed to drop checkers which have a longer response time, or PH meters which might be a hassle to calibrate.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

I've seen that sold at some LFS before, was wondering about how it works too. Have to keep manually test over a period of time to check the Co2 levels though, which is more hassle than drop checkers.

If it also relies on the pH/KH relationship or other water parameters, then it can't work for planted tanks using active aquasoil (since you have to use aquarium water with this test kit), as the test can't be isolated from other buffers that already affect the water parameters (unlike drop checkers which are isolated test systems).

I'm guess you can try and see if it works, can use drop checker and pH test kits to double-check the results.

----------


## bettarism

> That's one thing I hate about ceramic diffusers. once the algae sets in, it seems impossible to get rid of them. I tried bleach, vinegar, alcohol haha! still the stain remains there. And at some point he tiny pores that are supposed to produce the finest bubbles get clogged up perpetually leaving it very inefficient. I guess that's what I get for using cheap ones hehe. Perhaps the ADA ones don't suffer such issues.


I boiled my glass equipment in hot water and continue soaking it inside fresh water for 1 week. The alage will die off itself. To quicken the process, you can add otos or shrimps to eat the cooked algae. It works for me all the time.

----------


## PKB

Hi guys, 

I am thinking of trying out this ISTA external CO2 reactor but I do not want to use it the conventional way. I don't want to reduce the flow rate of my Eheim 2028 by connecting this reactor to it. I am thinking of submerging the whole reactor into the tank and connect it to a power head. This can also improve the flow in the tank as well. Please feel share your views on this idea.





> Just an update to this thread... a few days back i broke one of my inline diffuser Co2 input ports while doing maintenance (those are the thinnest bits of plastic on diffuser units, very easy to snap off if not careful), basically rendering it useless. 
> 
> I considered fixing it with epoxy glue, but didn't want to risk it due to the higher pressures i'm running on my system. 
> 
> So i decided to get a replacement system. Eventually getting the ISTA external CO2 reactor from LFS (similiar design to the Sera version that Atham is using from a few posts back).
> 
> Got it setup...
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Hi guys, 
> 
> I am thinking of trying out this ISTA external CO2 reactor but I do not want to use it the conventional way. I don't want to reduce the flow rate of my Eheim 2028 by connecting this reactor to it. I am thinking of submerging the whole reactor into the tank and connect it to a power head. This can also improve the flow in the tank as well. Please feel share your views on this idea.


Yeah, you could do that too... just have to arrange the reactor's inflow and outflow inside the tank so that it can efficiently distribute the dissolved Co2, ie. install a L-joint on the output to act as an directional outflow pipe. Make sure to cover the intake with a sponge guard so that fishes and shrimps don't get sucked into it too.

The only disadvantage is the whole unit will take up space inside the tank and be visible, have to find ways to hide it.

An alternative is to use the ISTA Mix Max reactors, similar working design too:



Photo from Google Images.

----------


## PKB

I intend to hide it behind my stem plants, I used to use the ISTA Mix Max Reactor that u show below but it slowed down the flow from canister significantly. That why I am thinking of driving it with a power head and leave my canister alone. Any additional flow from the power head is a bonus. The reactor that u are using now looks nicer :-) 




> Yeah, you could do that too... just have to arrange the reactor's inflow and outflow inside the tank so that it can efficiently distribute the dissolved Co2, ie. install a L-joint on the output to act as an directional outflow pipe. Make sure to cover the intake with a sponge guard so that fishes and shrimps don't get sucked into it too.
> 
> The only disadvantage is the whole unit will take up space inside the tank and be visible, have to find ways to hide it.
> 
> An alternative is to use the ISTA Mix Max reactors, similar working design too:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo from Google Images.

----------


## PKB

Just to update the installation, shared the problems faced and the latest setup. I am trying to achieve a mist free CO2 enriched condition in the tank by using a power head and an internal reactor. I did not install the CO2 reactor to my canister because I don't want to reduce the canister flow rate. I am injecting CO2 at a rate of 5-6 BPS for a 422 planted tank.

I did a few test.

*Attempt 1*
I bought a 600L/Hr power head and paired it with a "M" size ISTA Max Mix Reactor and the result was the CO2 fine bubbles get push out of the reactor and got sprayed into the tank. The undissolved CO2 bubble created a misty effect in the tank.

*Atempt 2* 
I changed the power head outlet from 1 outlet to 2 outlet to reduce the flow (The power head comes with a single outlet and double outlet option.) Hoping that the reduce flow will allow the CO2 bubble to fully dissolve before exiting the reactor. Still the same result, fine CO2 bubble get pushed out and creating misting effect.

*Attempt 3
*I use the same setup in test 2 but this time I added filter mat to the reactor hoping to prevent the CO2 bubble from escaping the reactor before it was fully dissolved. There is improvement but there are still micro bubble escaping.

*Attempt 4* 
Thinking that the problem could be because of the reactor size, I bought a "L" size ISTA Max Mix reactor and setup a double reactor system in the tank. I use a spliter to 
split the CO2 delivery. The target is the half the CO2 supply into each reactor and hope with the reduced CO2 supply into the reactor I can achieve 100% CO2 dissolving rate and not misting effect in the tank. The plan failed again. The reason is the CO2 supply did not divided equally although I use a spilter. Only one reactor gets the CO2 supply. Zero for the 2nd reactor. 

*Attempt 5
*It's getting frustrating. So I thought, since connecting the 2 reactor in parallel doesn't works, I connected them in series. Let the water flow through the M size reactor and 
connect the outlet of the M size reactor to the inlet of the L size reactor. I was thinking, this has to work. But still no. Micro CO2 bubble still gets blown out. Another problem is that one of the reactor propeller keeps getting stuck and not rotating.

*Attempt 6
*I connected only the L size reactor to the power head (Still using the double outlet option), I use back the filter map idea (This time I roll them real tight) and squeeze them onto the bottom of the L size reactor. Finally it seems to work. CO2 bubbles are trap in the reactor and dissolving before existing the reactor. No more misting effect in the tank.
I will have to monitor a few days and see. Hopefully this will be my final attempt. Video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jJl7e2G1Po

----------


## Urban Aquaria

Try and open the reactor and trim the 2nd rotor to allow it to spin faster, that will further improve the Co2 dissolve rate... in some units, the rotor's plastic molding might result in a tight fit which creates resistance, ideally both rotors should be spinning very fast.

If you watch the demo video from ISTA, you can see both rotors in these reactors spinning fast:

----------


## furyprix

I'm facing the same issue with my ista max mix (m) (connected to eheim Ecco pro 130). Similarly, I've tried to get the perfect 100% co2 dissolved rate but to no avail. Keeping my eye on this thread if you managed to solve it!

----------


## PKB

Yes, I do notice some "Flashing" of plastic material on the 2nd rotor. I will trim away some plastic during my next maintenance. I notice that when I inject 3-4 BPS, both rotors are spinning smoothly but when I inject 5 -6 BPS the 2nd rotor will start to spin slower and sometime jammed up when more CO2 is trap in the reactor.




> Try and open the reactor and trim the 2nd rotor to allow it to spin faster, that will further improve the Co2 dissolve rate... in some units, the rotor's plastic molding might result in a tight fit which creates resistance, ideally both rotors should be spinning very fast.
> 
> If you watch the demo video from ISTA, you can see both rotors in these reactors spinning fast:

----------


## PKB

The filter mat that I roll up into the reactor certainly did stop micro bubbles from exiting the reactor. The micro bubble will spin around the reactor until it is all dissolved.
Now I need to fine tune my CO2 BPS and too many BPS wll cause the 2nd rotor to jammed up. My headache is the both rotors spin smoothly when i inject 3-4 BPS but drop checker shows light blue color. But when I crank the BPS to 5-6 BPS the 2nd rotor occasionally jam up but always recover by itself and the drop check check show green.

I am thinking of changing the power head from 2 outlet to 1 outlet to increase the flow into the reactor and push CO2 injection to above 6 BPS. Will do it over during my next water change.
That will be my 7th attempt playing around with the same equipment.  :Knockout: 





> I'm facing the same issue with my ista max mix (m) (connected to eheim Ecco pro 130). Similarly, I've tried to get the perfect 100% co2 dissolved rate but to no avail. Keeping my eye on this thread if you managed to solve it!

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> The filter mat that I roll up into the reactor certainly did stop micro bubbles from exiting the reactor. The micro bubble will spin around the reactor until it is all dissolved.
> Now I need to fine tune my CO2 BPS and too many BPS wll cause the 2nd rotor to jammed up. My headache is the both rotors spin smoothly when i inject 3-4 BPS but drop checker shows light blue color. But when I crank the BPS to 5-6 BPS the 2nd rotor occasionally jam up but always recover by itself and the drop check check show green.
> 
> I am thinking of changing the power head from 2 outlet to 1 outlet to increase the flow into the reactor and push CO2 injection to above 6 BPS. Will do it over during my next water change.
> That will be my 7th attempt playing around with the same equipment.


Yeah, those reactors are designed and sized mainly for smaller tanks that only require lower injection rates (ie. 3-4 or less) and higher filter/pump flows (to rapidly mix the Co2)... once the BPS gets too high or the flow speed is too slow, the gas fills up the chamber faster than it can dissolve so the rotor movement is affected and the system becomes alot less efficient.

I noticed you tried splitting the Co2 hose feed but experienced only one side getting gas flow while the other side doesn't, this is because you need a dedicated 2-way splitter with each port having their with their own bubble counters and needle valves for it to work. In this way, you can fine tune each port to its specific BPS rate and provide a more moderate injection rate to each reactor (cannot just simply connect a basic Y-splitter to the Co2 line, that will not work).

The multi-way brass splitters with individual bubble counter and needles valves look something like this:



Photo from Google Images.

The photo shows a 6-way version, but you can get an idea how a 2-way version would be setup.

----------


## PKB

Thank UA for all the help, your info really helps. It just justify all the problem that I am facing on the splitters and the jammed reactor rotor. 




> Yeah, those reactors are designed and sized mainly for smaller tanks that only require lower injection rates (ie. 3-4 or less) and higher filter/pump flows (to rapidly mix the Co2)... once the BPS gets too high or the flow speed is too slow, the gas fills up the chamber faster than it can dissolve so the rotor movement is affected and the system becomes alot less efficient.
> 
> I noticed you tried splitting the Co2 hose feed but experienced only one side getting gas flow while the other side doesn't, this is because you need a dedicated 2-way splitter with each port having their with their own bubble counters and needle valves for it to work. In this way, you can fine tune each port to its specific BPS rate and provide a more moderate injection rate to each reactor (cannot just simply connect a basic Y-splitter to the Co2 line, that will not work).
> 
> The multi-way brass splitters with individual bubble counter and needles valves look something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo from Google Images.
> ...

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## PKB

I trimmed the 2nd rotor on the reactor and it is certainly spinning much better, no more jam up even if i am injecting 5- 6 BPS. I am injecting 5 BPS + 10ml excel daily But I still cannot achieve the color I correct color on the drop checker.

IMG_6838.JPG




> Yes, I do notice some "Flashing" of plastic material on the 2nd rotor. I will trim away some plastic during my next maintenance. I notice that when I inject 3-4 BPS, both rotors are spinning smoothly but when I inject 5 -6 BPS the 2nd rotor will start to spin slower and sometime jammed up when more CO2 is trap in the reactor.

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## PKB

The 2nd rotor is spinning much better after trimming. 

*Rotor spinning speed without CO2 injection.
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzsjr35cgkM

*Rotor Spinning speed with 7-8 BPS, the rotor doesn't jam up anymore after the trim*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avoLOHsd3uo







> Try and open the reactor and trim the 2nd rotor to allow it to spin faster, that will further improve the Co2 dissolve rate... in some units, the rotor's plastic molding might result in a tight fit which creates resistance, ideally both rotors should be spinning very fast.
> 
> If you watch the demo video from ISTA, you can see both rotors in these reactors spinning fast:

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## glamourjojo

I use glass diffuser and change to ISTA reactor really make a big different.

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## stream

> Just an update to this thread... a few days back i broke one of my inline diffuser Co2 input ports while doing maintenance (those are the thinnest bits of plastic on diffuser units, very easy to snap off if not careful), basically rendering it useless. 
> 
> I considered fixing it with epoxy glue, but didn't want to risk it due to the higher pressures i'm running on my system. 
> 
> So i decided to get a replacement system. Eventually getting the ISTA external CO2 reactor from LFS (similiar design to the Sera version that Atham is using from a few posts back).
> 
> Got it setup...
> 
> 
> ...


Hi UA and Atham

Are you still using the ISTA external CO2 Reactor? I've just installed mine today. I've noticed that once my CO2 is turned off via timer, water slowly creeps up the CO2 tube. When the CO2 is on, the CO2 pressure pushes the water back to the reactor bottle. Do you see the same thing in your setup?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi UA and Atham
> 
> Are you still using the ISTA external CO2 Reactor? I've just installed mine today. I've noticed that once my CO2 is turned off via timer, water slowly creeps up the CO2 tube. When the CO2 is on, the CO2 pressure pushes the water back to the reactor bottle. Do you see the same thing in your setup?


Yes, when the Co2 injection is off, the water will gradually creep back up the Co2 tubing, this is normal as the gas is used up and the back pressure from the tank's water volume fills back the tubing. As long as you have a check-valve installed before the reactor, the water will stop there and wouldn't move further into the bubble counter.

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## Beginner2015

The up aqua inline diffuser have so many good reviews and I am tempted to try it out. I have only purchased the pressurised CO2 with Ocean free solenoid from C328 last month and using it with the glass diffuser. Will the solenoid regulator work with this diffuser? Otherwise what would be the next best alternative?
thanks.

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## Urban Aquaria

> The up aqua inline diffuser have so many good reviews and I am tempted to try it out. I have only purchased the pressurised CO2 with Ocean free solenoid from C328 last month and using it with the glass diffuser. Will the solenoid regulator work with this diffuser? Otherwise what would be the next best alternative?
> thanks.


You'll have to check the working pressure of the regulator (usually the right side gauge) to see if the pressure is high enough to use inline atomizers/diffusers.

If its not high enough, the other options could be just sticking with in-tank ceramic diffuser, or try inline ceramic diffuser (those are basically same as in-tank ones, just that they are housed in a chamber outside the tank, less clutter), or can try inline reactors too.

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## Beginner2015

Working pressure is just 29-30psi. Would that work? The glass diffuser always turns brownish within a week even though I don't have alot of algae problems. So I rather have a diffuser out of the tank.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Working pressure is just 29-30psi. Would that work?


Looks like the working pressure is below the requirements to run those inline atomizers/diffusers, you'll need a regulator with higher working pressure to use those.




> The glass diffuser always turns brownish within a week even though I don't have alot of algae problems. So I rather have a diffuser out of the tank.


Yeah, in-tank diffusers do tend to be algae/mulm magnets, you could switch to the external inline versions if you prefer less maintenance (though they will both still require regular cleaning and de-clogging of the ceramic disc due to dirt/mineral buildup).

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## Beginner2015

Capture.JPG
Does the working pressure varies when paired with different distribution methods? I cannot find any information regarding the working pressure for oceanfree regulator. 
When used with glass diffuser, its 30PSI and I don't think there are much options with 30PSI. Even with intank atomiser, higher pressure is required.

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## Shadow

working pressure is constant depending on the regulator design. However there are regulator with adjustable working pressure, normally its dual stage regulator.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Capture.JPG
> Does the working pressure varies when paired with different distribution methods? I cannot find any information regarding the working pressure for oceanfree regulator. 
> When used with glass diffuser, its 30PSI and I don't think there are much options with 30PSI. Even with intank atomiser, higher pressure is required.


For most of the solenoid regulators we use, they have a fixed working pressure that is already pre-set by the manufacturer (unless you managed to buy one that is adjustable).

Just look at the gauge which shows working pressure (when the solenoid is not in operation yet), that is the starting default set working pressure. That is what you base on.

With 30 PSI pre-set working pressure, you can use normal ceramic diffusers or reactors, as those don't require higher pressures to work.

Atomizer systems use much finer pore ceramic tubes which need higher pressure to squeeze out the tinier bubbles, so if you want to use those (whether in-tank or external in-line versions), you'll need regulators with higher working pressure.

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## bombomlee

Carrying on the topic of atomizers, I bought an ANS intense co2 atomizer size L, wouldn't work with my single gauge Oceanfree regulator.. 

I just upgraded to the oceanfree solenoid regulator dual gauge, seems to have 42PSI working pressure? This is after it feels up the spiral-type glass ceramic diffuser. It was at 50PSI when the water was up the co2 tubing. 

Would this regulator be able to run the ANS intense?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Carrying on the topic of atomizers, I bought an ANS intense co2 atomizer size L, wouldn't work with my single gauge Oceanfree regulator.. 
> 
> I just upgraded to the oceanfree solenoid regulator dual gauge, seems to have 42PSI working pressure? This is after it feels up the spiral-type glass ceramic diffuser. It was at 50PSI when the water was up the co2 tubing. 
> 
> Would this regulator be able to run the ANS intense?


The working pressure will usually show abit higher when the solenoid is off (because there is no back pressure yet), when its on, there will be some back pressure from the diffuser, so the working pressure will display slightly lower.

Based on your existing working pressure, it should be able to run atomizer systems, though you'll have to test it to know for sure.

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## bombomlee

Thank you so much UA, just read post #218 by you as well, 

"_Note that such ceramic diffusers are not all made to the same density or quality, so the actual product may not work the same. You'll have to test them to find out for sure."
_
I shall go test it out and see!

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## bombomlee

Okay, just hooked up the ANS intense atomizer, the regulator is pushing 46/48PSI now at 1BPS. 

Should I continue with this atomizer? Afraid something might give way at some connection. Currently its regulator/solenoid/bubble counter - check valve, check valve, ANS intense atomizer. I secured cable ties to the check valve/tubing connections already, so its either the tubing slips out even with the cable ties or the tubing ruptures. Will it be safe to continue?

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## Jimmy

You using those tubing for co2 high pressure usage? Can't use those normal air tubing.

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## bombomlee

> You using those tubing for co2 high pressure usage? Can't use those normal air tubing.


Yes, using the ANS 3m co2 tubings, combination of black and white at certain places..

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## Urban Aquaria

> Okay, just hooked up the ANS intense atomizer, the regulator is pushing 46/48PSI now at 1BPS. 
> 
> Should I continue with this atomizer? Afraid something might give way at some connection. Currently its regulator/solenoid/bubble counter - check valve, check valve, ANS intense atomizer. I secured cable ties to the check valve/tubing connections already, so its either the tubing slips out even with the cable ties or the tubing ruptures. Will it be safe to continue?


Do you see the fine misty bubbles coming out of the atomizer? If it is then the system is working okay, as long as your connections are secure and not leaking, it will work fine.




> You using those tubing for co2 high pressure usage? Can't use those normal air tubing.


Have to use Co2 resistant tubing, normal air tubing will leak Co2 gas and tend to pop off easily under pressure.

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## bombomlee

Not even a single bubble, unless my eyes are failing me but I doubt it! Didn't have any leaks with the spiral glass diffuser, this diffuser/tubing connection was the only one that I removed and added the atomizer. The atomizer has an even more secure fitting so I doubt it is leaking..

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## Urban Aquaria

> Not even a single bubble, unless my eyes are failing me but I doubt it! Didn't have any leaks with the spiral glass diffuser, this diffuser/tubing connection was the only one that I removed and added the atomizer. The atomizer has an even more secure fitting so I doubt it is leaking..


Wait for a while more and see if it starts to work, sometimes the system needs to build up enough pressure within the atomizer before it starts pushing out the fine misty bubbles. 

If there are still no bubbles being produced, then try increasing the BPS injection rate abit higher, maybe to 2-3 BPS. If still no results, check the joints and connections for leaks with soapy water or by submersing them under a container of water.

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## bombomlee

Alright thank you! 

I took out the atomizer already, tried to fit the spiral glass diffuser back and it broke at the bend part... argh I just bought it today!!!

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## bombomlee

Update! 25mins after installation of the ANS intense atomizer size L running at a startup bps of 2.5, I finally manage to see quite a bit of micro bubbles and some bubbles collecting on the surface of the atomizer yay! 

However, the bps has slowed from 2.5 to about 0.5 now.. the working pressure gauge shows a reading of 38PSI, I guess this is the factory setting? Since it stabilises at this point. 

Guess its back to the glass diffusers ( or maybe an inline reactor since I want to slow the flow of my eheim 2026! )

Thank you UA!

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## Jimmy

> Alright thank you! 
> 
> I took out the atomizer already, tried to fit the spiral glass diffuser back and it broke at the bend part... argh I just bought it today!!!


Usually I would dip the tube into a cup of hot water for few seconds before fitting to glass diffuser. Find it easier to do so, same for fitting lily pipes.

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## takaco

i copy his setup

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## jiraiya

I'm using a glass diffuser because it's a great conversation starter  :Smile:

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## gimhchng

I was using glass diffuser, then switch to reactor. Recently broke the plastic connector for gas tubing. Tried to glue back but worried that it will give way and flood my house because it linked to canister outflow. Just bought ANS atomizer to try. 

Sent from my HM 1S using Tapatalk

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, those plastic ports on inline reactors and atomizers do tend to get easily snapped off during maintenance (especially when used with rigid Co2 tubing)... i also had my fair of having to buy replacement reactors units.

My solution was to install a push-in connector on the Co2 tubing, that solved the issue, no more breakages. Have been using it for the past few years.

Here is what the push-in connector looks like (just press the blue collar part to release):



Photo from Google Images.

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## gimhchng

Ya...that's a good idea. Should get it if I happen to go back to reactor. But actually I broke it when unscrew the water hose. I think it's very fragile. 

Sent from my HM 1S using Tapatalk

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## kaen130

> Yeah, those plastic ports on inline reactors and atomizers do tend to get easily snapped off during maintenance (especially when used with rigid Co2 tubing)... i also had my fair of having to buy replacement reactors units.
> 
> My solution was to install a push-in connector on the Co2 tubing, that solved the issue, no more breakages. Have been using it for the past few years.
> 
> Here is what the push-in connector looks like (just press the blue collar part to release):
> 
> 
> 
> Photo from Google Images.


Where to get this? I broke my inline diffuser too last month 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Urban Aquaria

> Where to get this? I broke my inline diffuser too last month


I got mine from Teck Siong Huat Hardware Pte Ltd, a hardware supply company that specializes in pneumatic fittings and equipment... here is their website:

http://tecksionghuat.com/?wpcproduct...sh-in-fittings

Some LFS may also stock the same fittings too, can also shop around for them.

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## kaen130

> I got mine from Teck Siong Huat Hardware Pte Ltd, a hardware supply company that specializes in pneumatic fittings and equipment... here is their website:
> 
> http://tecksionghuat.com/?wpcproduct...sh-in-fittings
> 
> Some LFS may also stock the same fittings too, can also shop around for them.


Thanks UA!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## waynekoh

Hi, how is this dusposible canister compared to seachem excel? Spraying 2 times a day into Dymax diffuser.


IMG_20161009_203608-1.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi, how is this dusposible canister compared to seachem excel? Spraying 2 times a day into Dymax diffuser.
> 
> IMG_20161009_203608-1.jpg


Those Co2 disposable spray can systems are usually meant to be used with a submerged diffuser chamber (gas is filled into the chamber and it slowly diffuses into the water over the course of the day)... i tested them before and its efficiency is not really good as the diffusion rate is limited to the small water surface area within the chamber. Didn't see much noticeable effect on plant growth.

Similar to this system: http://tropica.com/en/plant-care/co2/system-60/

Spraying it into a normal diffuser doesn't work well too, as that just puts a short burst of Co2 into the water. Most of it will disappear quickly. It's not a consistent steady supply like with a solenoid regulator system, hence the effects are very minimal too.

You would get much more noticeable effects dosing Excel or even better still, using a proper solenoid regulator Co2 system.

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## waynekoh

Hi,

Thanks for the advise. I used with a submerged diffuser chamber that looks like this. Borrowed pic from fellow user. There is a pump head that drive water into chamber and it leak out the other side. CO2 is pump in through the top. I think the CO2 wanting to float up will stay in chamber while water is being pump downwards to mix them. I do see CO2 gaps in the chamber hours after spraying ( 2nd pic)

14-54-48-dymax_nano_diffusor_pump.jpg

IMG-20161005-WA0006.jpg

So you recommendation is seachem excel. So maybe once this is finish i switch completely to seachem excel.  :Smile:

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## milk_vanilla

Excel isn't blocking your tank view, that one yes

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## waynekoh

> Excel isn't blocking your tank view, that one yes


Yeah. Thats why i place it at the back. Probably go on to excel after this can finish.  :Smile: 

IMG-20161010-WA0019.jpg

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## jackychun

Hi All, may I know what is the sign that CO2 tank running out of gas? I still can see the bubble coming out in bubble counter but the CO2 glass indicator show blue colour. I am not so sure whether it is leaking or CO2 is not there. 





Really appreciate your advice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Urban Aquaria

> Yeah. Thats why i place it at the back. Probably go on to excel after this can finish. 
> 
> IMG-20161010-WA0019.jpg


Btw, since you are currently running a system using Co2 gas, do install a drop checker to help measure the actual Co2 levels. It will show you whether the levels are too low (and thereby not as effective) or too high (and become toxic to livestock).

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi All, may I know what is the sign that CO2 tank running out of gas? I still can see the bubble coming out in bubble counter but the CO2 glass indicator show blue colour. I am not so sure whether it is leaking or CO2 is not there. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really appreciate your advice.


You can refer to the regulator gauge that shows the total pressure in the Co2 tank. In your setup, the top gauge is the one to check. 

From your photo it looks like it still has 1,000+ PSI, which indicates it's still full (the gas is compressed in liquid form). It will usually stay at this level for quite a while until it depletes. When you see it start to gradually drop below 900 PSI over time, then it indicates the Co2 has depleted to gas form and running out soon.

If your drop checker still shows a blue colour even after the Co2 injection has been on for a few hours, then it means there is not enough Co2 being injected or it's not diffused efficiently enough. 

You will just have to gradually increase the injection bps rate in small increments and observe the drop checker. This should be done slowly as the drop checker needs time to react to the changes in Co2 levels (usually 1-2 hours delay).

If you increase the bps until very high or the diffuser doesn't seem to generate more bubbles, and the drop checker still stays blue, then have to check the connections for leaks.

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## jackychun

Thanks for your advice, UA. I will try to increase the bubble rate tonight to see the situation improved. Also, I might need to check if any leak since I have cleaned the filter system few days ago. 


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## waynekoh

> Btw, since you are currently running a system using Co2 gas, do install a drop checker to help measure the actual Co2 levels. It will show you whether the levels are too low (and thereby not as effective) or too high (and become toxic to livestock).


Thanks for the advise!

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## Kingelliot

Hi all gurus, I have 2 questions here regarding CO2 system.

1. How do I know if a regulator is dual stage? From what I understand a dual guage regulator doesn't mean it is a dual stage regulator.

2. Does everyone of you encounter atomizer block problem? I need to clean the inner wall of my in line atomizer once every few weeks. Is this normal? If I don't clean it, pressure will build up between my atomizer and drop checker until no bubble coming out from the checker. Can it be an indication that my CO2 tank pressure goes too low now?

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

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## Urban Aquaria

> 1. How do I know if a regulator is dual stage? From what I understand a dual guage regulator doesn't mean it is a dual stage regulator.


Usually it will be indicated on the regulator packaging or specs. Sometimes its actually dual-stage but yet not listed, so just have to check with the seller or supplier to confirm.





> 2. Does everyone of you encounter atomizer block problem? I need to clean the inner wall of my in line atomizer once every few weeks. Is this normal? If I don't clean it, pressure will build up between my atomizer and drop checker until no bubble coming out from the checker. Can it be an indication that my CO2 tank pressure goes too low now?


Its a common issue when using ceramic based diffuser or atomizer systems. Dirt, algae and minerals will naturally clog up the ceramic pores over time and you will have to clean it periodically to maintain the efficiency. For atomizer systems their pores are even smaller (hence the tinier bubbles) so they tend to clog up much faster, compared to normal diffusers.

As for your Co2 tank pressure, you can check it from the pressure gauges. If you see the total pressure gauge gradually dropping below 500 PSI, then its an indication the gas is going to quickly deplete very soon. Best to arrange to get it refilled.

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## Poseidon

Is there any other way to check for optimal co2 beside drop checker? Please advise, thanks in advance!

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## jiraiya

> Is there any other way to check for optimal co2 beside drop checker? Please advise, thanks in advance!


Yes definitely. After a few months, I dont rely on the drop checker anymore. To me, the fish and plants health is a better measure of the needed CO2 level. As long as the CO2 rate change is slow, I found my fish able to adapt quite well. So I just keep increasing the CO2 slowly until the plants start to bubble, typically 3-4 bps for my 3ft 40 gallon tank.

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## jackychun

> Yes definitely. After a few months, I dont rely on the drop checker anymore. To me, the fish and plants health is a better measure of the needed CO2 level. As long as the CO2 rate change is slow, I found my fish able to adapt quite well. So I just keep increasing the CO2 slowly until the plants start to bubble, typically 3-4 bps for my 3ft 40 gallon tank.


Yes. I also don't use drop checker anymore. I prefer to gradually increase the CO2 up to the level that fish still comfortable and plants are healthy. And by doing so, less clutter in the tank. 


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## Saint888

Strongly agree on this point.. less clutter in the tank




> Yes. I also don't use drop checker anymore. I prefer to gradually increase the CO2 up to the level that fish still comfortable and plants are healthy. And by doing so, less clutter in the tank. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Geigetron

I have a 20lb tank with "Milwaukee" regulator and a "Carbon Doser," which is basically a custom reactor made by a store in Florida, USA. It releases bubbles at the top, and mixes with water getting sucked out of the bottom via pump. The way it's set up means no CO2 gets lost because no bubbles ever leave the reactor, because the bubbles don't sink  :Laughing: ... Works great, and there's no diffuser hanging in my tank. Also, no fizzy looking "sprite" water. I would recommend a reactor like this if you can afford it. I spent like $200 American for the whole setup.

~'Tron

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## kms

I use a intense Co2 setup, I don't have anything to check if it running out, it only takes me less than a day to fill it up.

My tank is 30cmx30cmx30cm, so a 1l co2 last me over 2 years.

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## Kingelliot

> I use a intense Co2 setup, I don't have anything to check if it running out, it only takes me less than a day to fill it up.
> 
> My tank is 30cmx30cmx30cm, so a 1l co2 last me over 2 years.


Hi brother, I have a 30x30x30 tank as well. The 1L intense CO2 system can last you for 2 years? How many bubble per second are you injecting? How intense is the 1L intense tank pressure internally? Sorry if I asked stupid question. I am new to this.

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## kms

I have the intense co2 regulator setup, including the bazooka atomizer and bubble count/oneway stopper, 4mm PU cable version, the co2 is set at number 3 or at 12 o clock upright, it has never been anything else, not sure about the how many bubbles, but at very low, but I do get bubbles coming up from the display rocks and plants, the plants, including quarter of the tank with Pogostemon helferi , madagascar lace plant, and some other unknown, all plant are doing well, infact I have a trim them every few weeks.
My madagascar lace plant is new 

the first 3 photo was my previous setup,

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## kms

My setup is pretty expensive for a nano, the tank is custom made, I also have a chiller connected, A control center control the light, co2, auto water top up, 3 temperature probe in the tank, and filter under the tank, and a auto food feeder, my control center and auto food feeder is phone android/apple app controlled.

sun sun AQ608 and AQ680 control center, control for light, PH, temperature, auto water level, co2
healia 130a chiller
app controlled auto food feeder
two strip LED light, one for red plants and one for green plants
UV light
soil is aqua labs black earth premium

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## raiyan6

I run my co2 straight into the pvc line that goes into my fluidized sand reactor, I have to say the moving sand really breaks the bubbles up good.

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