# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  Some notes on my new Hailea Chiller

## Nicky

I'm going to get my new Hailea chiller tomorrow !!  :Kiss:  
Aren't you happy for me?  :Jump for joy:   :Jump for joy:   :Jump for joy:   :Grin: 

I bought the 1/2 HP version... slurp slurp..
Also got the 1/4 hp version.. same size as 1/2 hp.

I did some background study before committing and here's my homework..

Fact 

- We pay electrical bill based on kWh and the current rate is S$0.2115 per kWh. And kWh and merely taking the power rating of the equipment multiply by the hours of usage. Power = Current x Voltage x power factor of the equipment. (unless some electrical fellow can counter me,  :Wink:  ):

- Horsepower is only a measure of the amount of heat removal per unit time. Though 1 HP = 745W (something like that lah), it is wrong to assume 1/10 HP chiller consume 75W.

- From jbjlightings in Singapore - Artica chiller
1/10 hp = 225W
1/5 hp = 360W
1/4 hp = 430W
1/2 hp = 600W

- This Hailea 1/2 HP consumes 480W, current rating (as per manufacturer) = 2.4A but proven by Singapore consumer to consume 2.34A when stabilised, 2.73A when initial kick-in. Taking into considering power-factor, the power rating of 480W is probably right. BTW, I do not believe the older version of Hailea has stated the correct current (Ampere) ratings. I believe it has been proven that the numbers were wrong.

- This Hailea uses Made-in-Japan Mitsubishi compressor and titanium cooling coil (titanium coil is deployed in good chiller such as Artica).

- This chiller is very quiet during operations. I know it because I have heard one running and I used to have the 1/10 hp Daeil (OEM of Artica) so I'm in the position to compare (and convince no one but myself,  :Kiss:  )

- Free delivery to your door step.

- Comes with 1 year warranty and tons of people can service it (and we are talking onsite service, not asking you to lug it all the way to someplace and yet got your throat slit,  :Roll Eyes:  )

So you tell me.. very wu-hua (hokkien for 'worth it') right ? How to resist not investing in one ?

If you want to know where I got my lobang (connection) and how much I paid please pm me. Don't want to talk about price here..  :Cool:  

So how, should I do a Mass Order to benefit everyone? Maybe we can get even better price..

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## tawauboy

power consumption (as charged) does not take power-factor into consideration. just straight and plain-simple; voltage x current.

so based on current 2.4a, the chiller power consumption will be 576 watts.
at 400 watts consumption, the current will be 2.0a.

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## stephen chung

> power consumption (as charged) does not take power-factor into consideration. just straight and plain-simple; voltage x current.
> 
> so based on current 2.4a, the chiller power consumption will be 576 watts.
> at 400 watts consumption, the current will be 2.0a.



They are running on DC motor?


 :Surprised:   :Surprised:   :Surprised:

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## Nicky

> power consumption (as charged) does not take power-factor into consideration. just straight and plain-simple; voltage x current.
> 
> so based on current 2.4a, the chiller power consumption will be 576 watts.
> at 400 watts consumption, the current will be 2.0a.


Sorry mate P=IV only for DC.
For AC you always have a power factor to the equation.

I quote the following but I know he is right that's why I quote him.




> The most accurate way of measuring your electrical comsumpstion is using a True power meter. Or you can estimate it by using a current cramp to measure the current drawn by your chiller. The calculate the power use by this .....
> 
> True Power = I x V x P.f
> 
> I = Current
> V = 240V AC
> p.f = power factor of your device.
> 
> PUB only bills you the true power drawn.
> ...





> Power factor ( P.f ) of the A.C machine i.e compressor motor should be some where on the compressor / chiller casing? together with the power ratings .
> 
> If you cannot find just use P = I x V this will give you the apparent power . True Power is usally lower then apparent power. So in fact you are paying for less then you what you calculated if you omit p.f.
> 
> cheers
> xtrekker

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## Nicky

To further prove I am right about adding the power factor in the power equation, here's the number I obtained directly from jbjlighting in Singapore.


Artica chiller:

- 1/10 HP = 1.6 A = 225W (If based on P=IV=352W)

- 1/5 HP = 2.5 A = 360W (If based on P=IV=550W)

- 1/4 HP = 2.6A = 430W (If based on P=IV=572W)

- 1/2 HP = 2.8W = 600W (If based on P=IV=616W)


So this proves I am 'more right'  :Blah:  ..

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## neon

Hi Nicky,

I am using hailea 1 HP now (the previous model). How is the power consumption vs the new 1HP model.

Saw it last Saturday at Bioplast. Beauty man ! Now it designs correctly with the water in/out on top , instead of at the back. It is in cool black color and the display is in blue.

What Tan did was to put another thermostat in the tank and link to a external power source. Assuming the set off and on temperature is 26 and 27 deg, the chiller will be plugged into this power source. He set the chiller to off at much lower temp say 23 deg, in case the sensor in the tank fail, the internal thermostat will still function and cut off at 23 deg. The external power source will cut off if the tank sensor reach 26 deg.

With a good/cheap thermostat like Fox brand from Sim Lim Tower, I can delay the kick in by another 10mins more, as I noticed that the extra 10mins delay will not increase to 0.1 deg. Assuming one day the chiller kick in 12 times, 12x10mins = 2hr saving of running power !

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## tawauboy

> They are running on DC motor?


nope. ac motor.

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## tawauboy

> Sorry mate P=IV only for DC.
> For AC you always have a power factor to the equation.
> 
> I quote the following but I know he is right that's why I quote him.


there are 3 power at play here.
a) apparent power, va (you pay for this) = voltage x current
b) actual power, w (does the real work) = voltage x current x power factor
c) reactive power, var (useless power wasted due to motor coil reactance)

power factor = actual power/apparent power

singpower bills you for apparent power consumed, not the lower true power.
most, if not all, commercial buildings have power factor correction capacitor banks to improve their building power factor. if electricity is charged for true power only, why would these building bother to have these power factor correction capacitor banks?

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## stephen chung

> there are 3 power at play here.
> a) apparent power, va (you pay for this) = voltage x current
> b) actual power, w (does the real work) = voltage x current x power factor
> c) reactive power, var (useless power wasted due to motor coil reactance)
> 
> power factor = actual power/apparent power
> 
> singpower bills you for apparent power consumed, not the lower true power.
> most, if not all, commercial buildings have power factor correction capacitor banks to improve their building power factor. if electricity is charged for true power only, why would these building bother to have these power factor correction capacitor banks?


Thomas,

I think SP bills you on true power. In fact commercial buildings and factorys are required to put in the power factor corrector to reduce the waste of power.

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## stephen chung

> Hi Nicky,
> 
> I am using hailea 1 HP now (the previous model). How is the power consumption vs the new 1HP model.
> 
> Saw it last Saturday at Bioplast. Beauty man ! Now it designs correctly with the water in/out on top , instead of at the back. It is in cool black color and the display is in blue.
> 
> What Tan did was to put another thermostat in the tank and link to a external power source. Assuming the set off and on temperature is 26 and 27 deg, the chiller will be plugged into this power source. He set the chiller to off at much lower temp say 23 deg, in case the sensor in the tank fail, the internal thermostat will still function and cut off at 23 deg. The external power source will cut off if the tank sensor reach 26 deg.
> 
> With a good/cheap thermostat like Fox brand from Sim Lim Tower, I can delay the kick in by another 10mins more, as I noticed that the extra 10mins delay will not increase to 0.1 deg. Assuming one day the chiller kick in 12 times, 12x10mins = 2hr saving of running power !


neon,

Which shop selling the thermostat?

Thanks

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## ranmasatome

Okay.. this is the way i see it...

Refer to Thomas' post that..
a) apparent power, va (you pay for this) = voltage x current
b) actual power, w (does the real work) = voltage x current x power factor
c) reactive power, var (useless power wasted due to motor coil reactance)

IF power in = power out + heat and other wasted power..

Then.. it must make sense that 

Apparent Power, Va = Actual power, w + Reactive power, var + heat and other wasted power.

IT would make no sense that SP charges you for ACTUAL power.. 
TRUE.. you machine or whatever may use ACTUAL power to run... but there is always wasted energy...no machine is taht efficient and yes you are charged for it. Also.. logically think for a minute...how many different machines do you have at home that use electricity?? And how many houses are there in Singapore?? so how many power factors does SP have to know before billing you, IF they bill you depending on ACTUAL power?? 
IF i was an electircity company... why would i go thru ALLLLLL this hassle just to bill you LESS and make less money for myself? Makes sense?? Power used to run machine is power used to run machine...

If i'm not wrong.. i think thats the point that is trying to be put forward. BOTH points are valid.. but theres a difference...at least thats the way i understand it.

so correct me if i'm wrong..

But what i dont understand is this quote...



> singpower bills you for apparent power consumed, not the lower true power.
> most, if not all, commercial buildings have power factor correction capacitor banks to improve their building power factor. if electricity is charged for true power only, why would these building bother to have these power factor correction capacitor banks?



It would only make sense to install these power factor correction capacitor banks only if SP charges you for ACTUAL power. no??? i'm confused again..hahaha...

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## tawauboy

> Thomas,
> 
> I think SP bills you on true power. In fact commercial buildings and factorys are required to put in the power factor corrector to reduce the waste of power.


if sp bills you true power only, then there are no incentives for commercial buildings and factories to put power factor correction. no commercial buildings or factories will put in power factor correction just for the sake of reducing wasted power. these stuff cost quite a fair bit.

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## Nicky

> Hi Nicky,
> 
> I am using hailea 1 HP now (the previous model). How is the power consumption vs the new 1HP model.
> 
> Saw it last Saturday at Bioplast. Beauty man ! Now it designs correctly with the water in/out on top , instead of at the back. It is in cool black color and the display is in blue.
> 
> What Tan did was to put another thermostat in the tank and link to a external power source. Assuming the set off and on temperature is 26 and 27 deg, the chiller will be plugged into this power source. He set the chiller to off at much lower temp say 23 deg, in case the sensor in the tank fail, the internal thermostat will still function and cut off at 23 deg. The external power source will cut off if the tank sensor reach 26 deg.
> 
> With a good/cheap thermostat like Fox brand from Sim Lim Tower, I can delay the kick in by another 10mins more, as I noticed that the extra 10mins delay will not increase to 0.1 deg. Assuming one day the chiller kick in 12 times, 12x10mins = 2hr saving of running power !


Can you share with us the purpose of have this extra piece of device?
It is documented and proven that the temperature sensor of this machine is calibrated correctly. Plus it is the same sensor used in the 1/4HP machine which according to the same person you were refering to, does not need the extra gadget.

Yah, plus can you PM me the details of the shop in Sim Lim that sell this thermostat? I want to take a look at it and understand how it works.

Thanks.

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## Nicky

> there are 3 power at play here.
> a) apparent power, va (you pay for this) = voltage x current
> b) actual power, w (does the real work) = voltage x current x power factor
> c) reactive power, var (useless power wasted due to motor coil reactance)
> 
> power factor = actual power/apparent power
> 
> singpower bills you for apparent power consumed, not the lower true power.
> most, if not all, commercial buildings have power factor correction capacitor banks to improve their building power factor. if electricity is charged for true power only, why would these building bother to have these power factor correction capacitor banks?


Interesting discussion.. I have written to spservices to get their answer. Will post their response here.

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## Nicky

While waiting for response from spservices let's focus our discussion on Horsepower.

What exactly is the definition of HP?
It can't be only kW because kW (being measure of energy) in itself does not say anything about the rate of heat removal from our tanks.
Over time, a small chiller can remove the same amount of heat as a big chiller would do over a short period of time.
A sporty car with high HP can deliver alot of propulsion energy within a short period of time to give the car the desired sprint.
A high HP (BTU) aircon can cool down a room in a faster time than an aircon with a small HP (BTU).
Hence if HP is merely an expression of kW (energy) then it has no useful meaning.

If HP is indeed the expression of 'heat removal per unit time', then for the same rating (say 1/2 HP) all brands chillers should be able to chiller the same tank with the same amount of time, given all else being equal. Hence if my argument is true, then manufacturer, who claim that their 1/10 HP chiller can chiller a bigger tank than competitor's chiller, is essential making a nonsensical statement.

Another observation I like to make is that judging from the ampere consumption, the technology used in a aquarium chiller is perhaps years behind that deployed in our regular fridge. The latest Samsung side-by-side fridge with water and ice dispenser has only a current rating of 0.7A !

Feel free to comment on my observation.

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## yappeyap

But i dont think its a good comparison between a chillier and refrigerators.
My though was the refrigerators was to cold stuff of a constant body imagine a bag of water within a control environment, once it achieve its cooling condition the energy used would remain as the same or even lesser, since no work is require to chill the water anymore. Thus it uses less wattage as compare to a chillier 

Whereas for a chillier it not only has to cool the incoming water fast, it has to cope with the fluctuation temp from the tank, thus the electrical usage naturally higher in order to achieve effective cooling

How about comparing water cooler technology to chillier would it be closer??? :Grin:

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## ranmasatome

> Can you share with us the purpose of have this extra piece of device?
> It is documented and proven that the temperature sensor of this machine is calibrated correctly. Plus it is the same sensor used in the 1/4HP machine which according to the same person you were refering to, does not need the extra gadget.
> 
> Yah, plus can you PM me the details of the shop in Sim Lim that sell this thermostat? I want to take a look at it and understand how it works.
> 
> Thanks.


Nick.. i was using this device on my old resun450.. i find it more accurate and allows me those functions i mentioned to you previously..

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## ranmasatome

> if sp bills you true power only, then there are no incentives for commercial buildings and factories to put power factor correction. no commercial buildings or factories will put in power factor correction just for the sake of reducing wasted power. these stuff cost quite a fair bit.



Err... this really confuses me.. IF Sp charges for apparent power... which is IV...then there would be no point in putting in those regulators since power factor is no where in teh equation and you still get charged whether you use the device or not.

IF they charge for actual or true power which is IV x pf... then it would make sense .. cos putting in those regulators would give you a better power factor (lower) and hence save you more money.. no??

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## stephen chung

> But i dont think its a good comparison between a chillier and refrigerators.
> My though was the refrigerators was to cold stuff of a constant body imagine a bag of water within a control environment, once it achieve its cooling condition the energy used would remain as the same or even lesser, since no work is require to chill the water anymore. Thus it uses less wattage as compare to a chillier 
> 
> Whereas for a chillier it not only has to cool the incoming water fast, it has to cope with the fluctuation temp from the tank, thus the electrical usage naturally higher in order to achieve effective cooling
> 
> How about comparing water cooler technology to chillier would it be closer???


I would reckon that water cooler technology is pretty much the same as chiller. It just being put together in a different way.

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## stephen chung

I think we better leave P=VI thing alone liao. Not really that important.

Wait, the next you know laplace transform n DiffEq all come out liao.

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## Nicky

I think this discussion to find out exactly how spservices in Singapore charges us is important.
Also I feel that this discussion is useful (but of course, right?.. it is started off by me) because it basially bring about awareness the different between hp rating, current rating, power consumption and what you eventually have to pay.

This discussion will help AQ members make informed decision when they consider buying a chiller from now on.

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## eddyq

So running a 1/2 HP chiller whole day how much is the monthly bill?

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## Nicky

> Nick.. i was using this device on my old resun450.. i find it more accurate and allows me those functions i mentioned to you previously..


Where did you get your thermostat device? How does it work? Can take some picture and send to me via email?

Better still, post it here in AQ for all to see. Explain to us how it works.
Thanks!

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## Nicky

> So running a 1/2 HP chiller whole day how much is the monthly bill?


Got to see what spservices reply. If Tawauboy is right, then it is Current x Voltage x Hours = kWh.
Multiply by 30 days for 1 month and multiply by $0.2115.
That will give you a good ballpark figure.
Note: you should try to verify if the current rating stated in the specs of your chiller is accurate.

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## stephen chung

> Got to see what spservices reply. If Tawauboy is right, then it is Current x Voltage x Hours = kWh.
> Multiply by 30 days for 1 month and multiply by $0.2115.
> That will give you a good ballpark figure.
> Note: you should try to verify if the current rating stated in the specs of your chiller is accurate.


Nick,

If follow your formula is about $92..running 24hr/day non stop.

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## spinex

> Nick,
> 
> If follow your formula is about $92..running 24hr/day non stop.


The thing is .. your chiller won't be running 24 hrs non stop. Suppose 1/3 of 24 hrs which is 8 hrs running .. it will be roughly $30 per month. Which i reckon to be around there also.

This depend on a lot of factors like your lighting period and what temperature you set ..etc.

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## Nicky

Exactly.. that's why buying right-size chiller is so important.
Too big chiller usually means high upfront investment and high current ratings.
Too small chiller usually means higher running cost but low upfront investment.

One thing to note is that regardless of the size of chiller, the rest period of chiller between runs should be the same. That means we cannot assume that 1/2hp of the same brand chiller will run 1/2 the time of the 1/4hp chiller on a given day. Draw out a table and put in the numbers, assuming 1/4hp runs 60 mins before resting for 60 mins, and 1/2hp runs for 30 mins before resting for 60 mins, and you will know what I mean.

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## Nicky

> Nick,
> 
> If follow your formula is about $92..running 24hr/day non stop.


Not necessary so.. how do you know what's the current rating of that chiller?
Also, it may not run full 24 hrs.

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## Nicky

> hmm... I'm thinking about changing my chiller too. Was considering the new Teco.
> 
> Did you give that any thought at all?


Just check out the specs of Teco chiller.

Current Ratings not available but power rating is as follows:

TR10 = 1/8 hp = 200 (H2O quoted 250W - the shop owner seemed to be reading off a specalog)
TC10 = 1/8 hp = 400W
According to spec, both are for tank less than 500 litres.

TR15 = 1/5 hp = 300W (H2O quoted 400W)
TC15 = 1/5 hp = 400W
According to spec, both are for tank less than 800 litres.

TR20 = 1/3 hp = 480W (H2O quoted 650W)
TC20 = 1/3 hp = 480W
According to spec, both are for tank less than 2000 litres.

But the price is 4-digit and so is more than 2x the price of Hailea.

From the power rating provided you can tell there is hardy any electrical savings to discuss.
Let say you can squeeze out $7 per month, and let's assume Teco cost $700 (more than this actually, range to range comparison) more than Hailea, it will take more than 8 years to see any benefit. This exclude the time value of money.

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## neon

> Can you share with us the purpose of have this extra piece of device?
> It is documented and proven that the temperature sensor of this machine is calibrated correctly. Plus it is the same sensor used in the 1/4HP machine which according to the same person you were refering to, does not need the extra gadget.
> 
> Yah, plus can you PM me the details of the shop in Sim Lim that sell this thermostat? I want to take a look at it and understand how it works.
> 
> Thanks.


I don't remember the name of the shop, but I remember spotted AZoo PH controller which displays outside. It is located at basement for sure. The brand is Fox brand.

The function consists of :
1) usual desire temperature cut off deg
2) you can define degree F or degree C
3) dly : delay timing in MM:SS 
4) dif : difference between cut off point and the delta. I don't understand the logic in this one. In order for me to physical cut off at 26 deg and cut in at 27 deg, I have to set the dif with 0.5 , and set temp at 26.5 deg. Funny ? :Shocked:  :Exasperated:  
5) cor : any deviation if you have a more accurate measurement device to calibrate it. Who knows you may need it , like a PH tester , right ?

What Tan did is quite simple, as long as you can fix a closure/box and fit the thermostat display and connect the power (at your own risk). Of course the closure should also fitted with 3 pins socket. So your chiller plug will connect to this socket. Once the Fox thermostat kick in , power will be supply to the chiller plug .

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## ranmasatome

NO 4) is extremely logical.. Think about it.

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## neon

> NO 4) is extremely logical.. Think about it.


Of course it is logical if you base of these numbers to deduce the outcome. In the first place, the desire cut off temp (say 26 deg) cannot be set physically, and have to use this "higher" number (26.5) with the "dif" set of 0.5 to achieve the desire 26 deg and also use this "dif" to achieve the desire 1 deg (from 26 deg) to cut in when it reach 27 deg. This logic is according to the mid point of the cut in and cut off , with respect to the set temp and "dif" .

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## ranmasatome

Precisely..so whats not to understand or find funny?

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## neon

> Precisely..so whats not to understand or find funny?


It should work like this, base on the desire cut off temp I want to set like most other chiller thermostat , ie 26 deg not 26.5 , and with the "dif" setting, ie 1.0 , the cut off will happen when reach 27. 

This way it makes more sense ! Don't think so ?

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## ranmasatome

> It should work like this, base on the desire cut off temp I want to set like most other chiller thermostat , ie 26 deg not 26.5 , and with the "dif" setting, ie 1.0 , the cut off will happen when reach 27. 
> 
> This way it makes more sense ! Don't think so ?


Does not sound logical. Its a chiller... if you want it to CUT off at 27degrees.. then how can it chill to 26?

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## stephen chung

> I don't remember the name of the shop, but I remember spotted AZoo PH controller which displays outside. It is located at basement for sure. The brand is Fox brand.
> 
> The function consists of :
> 1) usual desire temperature cut off deg
> 2) you can define degree F or degree C
> 3) dly : delay timing in MM:SS 
> 4) dif : difference between cut off point and the delta. I don't understand the logic in this one. In order for me to physical cut off at 26 deg and cut in at 27 deg, I have to set the dif with 0.5 , and set temp at 26.5 deg. Funny ? 
> 5) cor : any deviation if you have a more accurate measurement device to calibrate it. Who knows you may need it , like a PH tester , right ?
> 
> What Tan did is quite simple, as long as you can fix a closure/box and fit the thermostat display and connect the power (at your own risk). Of course the closure should also fitted with 3 pins socket. So your chiller plug will connect to this socket. Once the Fox thermostat kick in , power will be supply to the chiller plug .



According to what I know is, if you set the temp at 26 n delta of 1 then the device will cut in at 26.5 n cut out at 26.5. If the delta is 2 then cut in at 27 and cut off at 25.

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## Nicky

OK.. I think the 4 functions (with example) are as follows:

1. Usual Desire Temp (example = 25C)

2. C or F (example = C)

3. DLY (example = 2 min 30 sec. This will be explained together with pt 4)

4. DIF (example = 0.7)

Explaination of Pt 3 & 4:

At 25.7C, the chiller supposed to start working. But it will delay by another 2min30sec before the chiller starts running.
And it will run until 24.3C and stop.

For this to work, the chiller must be set up to a temp lower than 24.3C.

Am I right?

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## neon

> Does not sound logical. Its a chiller... if you want it to CUT off at 27degrees.. then how can it chill to 26?


Sorry lah , a typo lah . I meant cut in at 27 . Don't play by the word, I am talking the behaviour of the device.

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## neon

> OK.. I think the 4 functions (with example) are as follows:
> 
> 1. Usual Desire Temp (example = 25C)
> 
> 2. C or F (example = C)
> 
> 3. DLY (example = 2 min 30 sec. This will be explained together with pt 4)
> 
> 4. DIF (example = 0.7)
> ...


That's correct, but provided both temp sensor "really" in-sync / calibrated correctly. My observation, the chiller internal thermostat sensor is different from the external one , at least for my. So, on the safest side and just in case the external sensor drop-out or spoilt, at least the internal one able to cut it off at lower temp, instead of letting the chiller continue to chill. Mind you when that happen, the titanium coil will crack when frozen , according to Tan. Then will be in big trouble. With this double thermostat, can be used as redundancy.

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## ranmasatome

> According to what I know is, if you set the temp at 26 n delta of 1 then the device will cut in at 26.5 n cut out at 26.5. If the delta is 2 then cut in at 27 and cut off at 25.


Cut in at 26.5 and cut out at 26.5!?

Okay..logically speaking.. We set our chiller to a desired temperature.. say.. 25 degrees celcius. Then when it gets to 25.1 dC.. it will start to chill because its not 25 anymore! Logically. That would mean that every time it DIFFERENTIATES by 0.1 dC the chiller will turn on.. then turn off again when it has chilled that 0.1 dC.. that set up would work, yes.. but boy would that cost you a bunch of money and shorten the lifespan of your chiller.. So people added this Differentiating funtion.

So you can set a buffer for your chiller and also introduce a RANGE of temperature into your tank. so logically speaking.. If I want my tank temperature to be 25 dC!! The chiller should MAINTAIN that temperature in my tank... then we set the buffer..or differentiation range.. so say I set 1... that would mean the chiller would kick in at 26.. because 25 + 1 is =26...and switch off when?? again.. lets think logically...

Anyway.. Nicky, SP haven't replied??

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## benny

Guys,

Differing opinions are not uncommon. Let's deal with it like gentlemen. I've edited parts of the thread that does not contribute to the discussion.

When I set my Teco chiller at 25 degrees with a buffer of 1 degrees, it kickes in at 26 and cuts off at 25 degrees. I can also set the buffer from 0 to 2 degrees.

Cheers,

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## Nicky

> That's correct, but provided both temp sensor "really" in-sync / calibrated correctly. My observation, the chiller internal thermostat sensor is different from the external one , at least for my. So, on the safest side and just in case the external sensor drop-out or spoilt, at least the internal one able to cut it off at lower temp, instead of letting the chiller continue to chill. Mind you when that happen, the titanium coil will crack when frozen , according to Tan. Then will be in big trouble. With this double thermostat, can be used as redundancy.


Let's discuss the concerns you raised..

1. Temp sensor not in-sync
I believe my new chiller have a feature to calibrate the thermo sensor (will let you know). The build-in sensor senses the temp of the water in the chiller whereas the external probe senses the temp of the water. Of course there will be a different in both reading. However if you calibrate your chiller thermo sensor to be in sync with your measure temp in your tank, that will fix your problem once a for all, without having to invest in the external probe.

2. Titanium coil crack because of freeze
If you do not have an external probe then obviously this will not happen. Even if you choose to have it, all you have to do is to set your chiller temp a bit lower than that of the desire temp (which you set on your external control). That way there is no way to screw things up.


Now.. why would anyone want to use the 'delay' function??

Someone said (was it you har?) that even if the chiller delay kicking in by 2 min, there is no change in temp and there will be $$ savings.
Well, yes and no..... 
'Yes' because that's what you see on the digital display and you assume that no change in digital display ==> No change in temp.
'No' because in actual fact, there is a rise in temp because your tank is of a lower temp than the surrounding and heat transfer will always happen (law of thermodynamics).
So let's say you delay the kicking in of your chiller by 2 min. In actual fact, your tank has already 'suck in' 2 min of heat.
Assuming your chiller is set to start at 26.0C and stop at 25.0C, with the 2min delay instead of 26.00C it is now 26.08C when the chiller starts to work (and to you, it is 26.0C).
So your chiller will have to work from 26.08C --> 25.00C, instead of 26.00C --> 25.00C.
Going by common sense, the chiller now have to work longer than before, right?
Any saving, if at all, should be very small in comparison to the investment to buy this external gadget.

So is it that worth it to buy an external gadget just to save that few cents per month, and have all kinds of wiring, probe and gadget hanging around, plus the fear of your titanium coil cracking (if you don't set it up properly)?

Maybe someone can try to convince me (and others who agree to my argument here) why this additional gadget is useful, other than making a few more hundred bucks from me..  :Grin:  .. like some LFSs....  :Roll Eyes:  .....


BTW, who rated this 4 stars?
Are you sure it is 4-stars and not 5-stars postings?  :Grin:

----------


## ranmasatome

nicky.. i think the delay function is just to prevent unecessay kicking in of chiller. IF i set at 25dC and buffer 0.5 each side.. then SOMETIMES.. say if i'm in a colder country...when temperature drops to 25.6.. the chiller would logically kick in.. but it will wait..as sometimes it is possible for the temp to drop back to 25.5.. so it prevent unecessary kicking in. same applies for chilling.. when it hits 24.5... sometimes it may go back up to 24.6 or drop to 24.3.. i guess to me its like buffer on top of a buffer..haha.. but then again.. i might be wrong.

----------


## neon

> Let's discuss the concerns you raised..
> 
> 1. Temp sensor not in-sync
> I believe my new chiller have a feature to calibrate the thermo sensor (will let you know). The build-in sensor senses the temp of the water in the chiller whereas the external probe senses the temp of the water. Of course there will be a different in both reading. However if you calibrate your chiller thermo sensor to be in sync with your measure temp in your tank, that will fix your problem once a for all, without having to invest in the external probe.
> 
> 2. Titanium coil crack because of freeze
> If you do not have an external probe then obviously this will not happen. Even if you choose to have it, all you have to do is to set your chiller temp a bit lower than that of the desire temp (which you set on your external control). That way there is no way to screw things up.
> 
> 
> ...


Nick,

That is the case if the sensor is internal, which it keeps flipping up-and-down, whereas the external probe does not. By delay 10 mins more when hitting 27, the sensor still remains at 27 which the chiller kick in. Think , even if it hits 27.1 (which I have not seen even during lighting period), how long do you think the chiller will take to chill another 0.1 deg , 10 min more ? Don't think so , right ?

----------


## Nicky

> That is the case if the sensor is internal, which it keeps flipping up-and-down, whereas the external probe does not.


Why do you think external probe will behave differently (and better) than the internal probe?





> By delay 10 mins more when hitting 27, the sensor still remains at 27 which the chiller kick in. Think , even if it hits 27.1 (which I have not seen even during lighting period), how long do you think the chiller will take to chill another 0.1 deg , 10 min more ? Don't think so , right ?


Over a period of time (a day), the chiller will have to make up for the 10 min heat gain. The heat gain during the 10 min must be countered by heat lost. But it does not mean that heat gain in 10 min can only be countered by the chiller in 10 min (it should be less).

For example: You may delay the switching ON of the chiller by 10 min. But you cannot be sure that the chiller will run for the exact same duration if you do not delay the start time by 10 min, right? It is probably a few minute later than it would, if you do nothing to interfere with the original chiller configuration.

A 'number' example:
Do nothing: Switch on 1000hrs, switch off 1030hrs.
Spent $ buy this and that: Switch on 1010hrs, switch off 1042hrs.

Paisay hor but I dont think the logic you are implying can be supported by any sound theory.

----------


## BFG

The external probe is meant to take the temperature of the water in the actual tank itself. The internal probe receives the water temperature that it is feed with. Using an external probe is better as the actual temperature that you want the tank water to be is the actual temperature that you set the chiller at.

----------


## neon

> The external probe is meant to take the temperature of the water in the actual tank itself. The internal probe receives the water temperature that it is feed with. Using an external probe is better as the actual temperature that you want the tank water to be is the actual temperature that you set the chiller at.


Precisely the point here. The chiller expert is doing it (like Tan , at least I think he is since he is in this chiller business much longer and see lots more than any one of us) , what does it mean ? He is consistently doing it ,even when he switches from different brand to brand, and he is still doing it now with the 2 new Hailea chillers that he installed now for his big tanks. Why ???

----------


## stephen chung

> Precisely the point here. The chiller expert is doing it (like Tan , at least I think he is since he is in this chiller business much longer and see lots more than any one of us) , what does it mean ? He is consistently doing it ,even when he switches from different brand to brand, and he is still doing it now with the 2 new Hailea chillers that he installed now for his big tanks. Why ???


But do we really need that king of precision?

----------


## Ian Lim

> Where did you get your thermostat device? How does it work? Can take some picture and send to me via email?
> 
> Better still, post it here in AQ for all to see. Explain to us how it works.
> Thanks!


Hi Nicky,

I believe the model is DS FOX-2002 (Made in Korea) s/no. 016300606, price at about $70 and can be bought in Sim Lim Tower basement ACEZ Instruments Pte Ltd. #B1-36A (from maindoor staircase turn left). I just happen to there earlier and went in to have a look.

Hi Neon, can you confirm the model that you were using. tks.

----------


## BFG

> But do we really need that king of precision?


I believe so. You see, the purpose of getting a chiller is to chill the TANK WATER, not the water coming into the chiller. In doing so, you will chill the tank at the temperature setting that you set.


 :Smile:

----------


## neon

> But do we really need that king of precision?


I am not trying to raise the point of precision here , rather that mentioned some of the feature and remove potentially hrs saving running time within a fixed 24hr period. 

Also, think about of the frequent cut in and off , at the end becomes wear-and-tear issue. Likewise the frequent heat generated in the house from the chiller, etc. 

To illustrate my point here , I sat down and observed my tank during lighting hour on tonight hot evening. My observation for my 6'x2'x2', 1 HP chiller, 2x150W MH , setting kick in 27 deg and cut off at 26 :
1 cycle (2hr 50 mins)= running 38 mins + 
2 hr 2 mins idle time to raise up from 26 to 27 +
10 min delay before the next kick in. 

Approx ~3 hrs saving 10mins, 11 hrs lighting period => ~ saving 30-40mins. The rest of the light off period => ~ saving 20mins (assuming two cycles within the 13 hrs, but if more running, the more time is saved ) . In the end, minimum 1 hr confirmed not running using the delay and still maintain the 26-27 range.

Tell me , how often will your internal thermostat kick in and cut off within the ~3 hours , and how long each run takes ? Assuming your total running time is the same (38 mins) within the 3 hrs period on the same tank condition. The number of kick in and cut off may be more than the external one (from my own experience). If the internal one kick in more within the same period, what does it tell you, it ignores what the actual tank temp and your original intention to let it hover between 26 to 27 (if that is really your intention). That I should call "precision" the internal one is aiming at by running frequently to maintain the same temp, instead of hovering. 

What I described above, just takes it as a reference point for comparison. I am sharing my own experience on comparing my own 1 HP chiller fitted or without external thermotat sensor . Few areas to be noted as mentioned (a) frequency of kick in (b) delay kick in (potential power saving) . If you think I talk rubbish, please just ignore it. Compare with your tank if your have the similar HP (internal thermostat sensor), lighting condition (2x150w) , tank dimension. 

I rest my case .

----------


## neon

> Hi Nicky,
> 
> I believe the model is DS FOX-2002 (Made in Korea) s/no. 016300606, price at about $70 and can be bought in Sim Lim Tower basement ACEZ Instruments Pte Ltd. #B1-36A (from maindoor staircase turn left). I just happen to there earlier and went in to have a look.
> 
> Hi Neon, can you confirm the model that you were using. tks.


I recalled roughly about the same price when I bought. 

The model is Fox 1004.

----------


## stephen chung

> But do we really need that king of precision?


Ops..I think I posted a wrong question here..... :Smile:   :Smile:

----------


## Nicky

Here's the reply from spservices.. hehe.. I'm right.. :Grin:

----------


## ranmasatome

Low tension accounts????? whats that? like people that dont use as much compared to big establishments e.g. takashimaya?? 
Would those qualify as high tension accounts?? so its safe to presume taht for those accounts they use a different formula...hmmm...?? so perhaps thats why they use those power factor ehancers??

----------


## Nicky

So long as you are residence account it should be low-tension lah.
Let's not worry about things that does not concern us as general user, agree?

----------


## ranmasatome

just wondering mah...kekeke.. but ya.. low-tension = us.. well most of us.

----------


## Nicky

I think I have lost my link. Here it is..

----------


## vinz

So, ok I haven't read the whole thread (I've been messing with AQ stuff all day and I'm a little zombified at the moment, so someone be kind and summarise for me, can?)... How do we derive the power factor? I would want to factor it into the AQ calculator if there is a drastic difference.

----------


## loupgarou

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_power


Energy losses in transmission lines increase with increasing current. Where a load has a power factor lower than 1, more current is required to deliver the same amount of useful energy. Power companies therefore require that customers, especially those with large loads, maintain the power factors of their respective loads within specified limits or be subject to additional charges. Engineers are often interested in the power factor of a load as one of the factors that affect the efficiency of power transmission.


---
since low tension users aren't bothered (ie; cost wise) by efficiency, we should by a chiller based on actual power consumed.

----------


## loupgarou

I think there are some assumptions to be made.

for artica chillers, on their website, they state that 1HP = 12,000 BTU
so a 1/4 hp artica chiller has a 3000/hr btu chilling capacity.

--
meanwhile, a 1/10 hp aqua euro chiller has a 1485 btu capacity, that makes it even more efficient at 1hp = 14850 btu

--
the teco tr 20 has a 1/3hp but a btu of 2620 so 1hp = 7860 btu
teco tr 15 has a 1/5 hp but a btu of 2065 so 1hp = 10325 btu
--



Hailea's website does not show the BTU ratings, maybe the spec sheet that comes with the chiller might.
http://www.hailea.com/produce.htm


so as one can see, (IN THE aquarium CHILLER industry) BTU has no direct relationship to HP.
I suspect though that there is a relationship of HP to actual power.

(thus it is probable, not all 1/4 hp cool equally, but they probably consume the same amount of power?)

---
so for the more adventurous. is it possible to calculate a theoretical power consumption of a chiller based on

BTU, horsepower (or actual power), the amount of water to be chilled , specific heat capacity of water and air, the desired temperature and ambient temperature)

I foresee calculus is involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration



> Domestic and commercial refrigerators may be rated in kJ/s, or Btu/h of cooling. Commercial refrigerators are mostly rated in tons of refrigeration. One ton of refrigeration capacity can freeze one short ton of water at 0 °C (32 °F) in 24 hours. Based on that:
> 
> Latent heat of ice (i.e., heat of fusion) ≈ 144 Btu / lb (or 334.5 kJ/kg) 
> One short ton = 2000 lb 
> Heat to be extracted = 2000 * 144 = 288000 Btu / 24 hours = 12000 Btu/hour = 200 Btu / Minute 
> 1 ton refrigeration = 200 Btu / minute = 3.517 kJ/s = 3.517 kilowatts[8] 
> A much less common definition is: 1 tonne of refrigeration is the rate of heat removal required to freeze a metric ton (i.e., 1000 kg) of water at 0 °C in 24 hours. Based on the heat of fusion being 334.5 kJ/kg, 1 tonne of refrigeration = 13,938 kJ/h = 3.872 kW. As can be seen, 1 tonne of refrigeration is 10% larger than 1 ton of refrigeration.
> 
> Most residential air conditioning units range in capacity from about 1 to 5 tons of refrigeration.


--
I suspect horsepower to be an arbritary labelling in the aquarium industry anyway, look at wattage and btu where possible, for any wattage, the higher btu is probably the more desirable one to get where cost is not a concern

----------


## Nicky

> I suspect though that there is a relationship of HP to actual power.
> 
> (thus it is probable, not all 1/4 hp cool equally, but they probably consume the same amount of power?)


I have provided examples in my earlier posting in this thread that shows clearly that same hp ratings of different brands of chillers does not consume the same power. And this is quite easily understood because different designs has different efficiency.

However all these while I always thought the hp:BTU conversion ratio is a fixed industry number/standard.
What you have suggested now makes sense and help to explain why different brands of chiller of the same hp rating often claim they can chill different size of water volume. Granted different brands probably have different conditions when conducting their lab test but I used to think it is bullcrap. However with your explaination it all makes sense.

It is probably interesting now to note that H20 LFS, which distribute Teco chiller in Singapore (or so they claimed) actually refused to rate their chiller in terms of hp. They told me hp rating is not universally acceptable for aquarium chiller.

So we cannot trust the hp ratings of aquarium chiller, since they do not reference to the same BTU conversion.
And we cannot trust the hp to power consumption, since different chillers has different efficiency.

Now I wonder if we can completely trust the power consumption (watt) declared by chiller manufacturer.

----------


## bclee

Electrical power consumption and chilling capacity is not so directly related.

It depends on the chiller design. Therefore, different makes have different HP corresponding the wattage.

BC

----------


## bclee

> I think there are some assumptions to be made.
> 
> for artica chillers, on their website, they state that 1HP = 12,000 BTU
> so a 1/4 hp artica chiller has a 3000/hr btu chilling capacity.
> 
> --
> meanwhile, a 1/10 hp aqua euro chiller has a 1485 btu capacity, that makes it even more efficient at 1hp = 14850 btu
> 
> --
> ...


1HP = 12,000BTU (in terms of heat exchange). It is NOT arbitary!

"meanwhile, a 1/10 hp aqua euro chiller has a 1485 btu capacity, that makes it even more efficient at 1hp = 14850 btu" does not make sense.


BC

----------


## bclee

The HP rating used may the the design rating while the BTU/h is the actual rating...

... maybe... just speculating.

In school, I never used HP for calculation of heat exchangers... always BTU/h or kW.

BC

----------


## vinz

I think this is the answer the Loupgarou intended to post, but ended up mistakenly editing Nicky's post instead. I have ALMOST made a similar mistake before.

Loupgarou, if I'm wrong, please speak up.

-----------------




> I have provided examples in my earlier posting in this thread that shows same hp ratings of different brand chillers does not consume the same power.


there is a possibility that hp is related to true power and the wattage list that you give is actual power, so to cause of the difference is the different power factor between the various chiller .

nonetheless, hp cannot be used to judge the cooling power of a chiller, only BTU rating can.


--

----------


## loupgarou

> 1HP = 12,000BTU (in terms of heat exchange). It is NOT arbitary!
> 
> "meanwhile, a 1/10 hp aqua euro chiller has a 1485 btu capacity, that makes it even more efficient at 1hp = 14850 btu" does not make sense.


what I mean is that, the 1hp =12000 is stated in jbj site. however, if one checks the ratings for other chillers, they will state 
1/10 hp, BTU 1485

which like you said is hardly correct ...

sources:

http://www.aquatictech.com/chillers.html
http://www.northcoastmarines.com/chillers.htm
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113768

even if one were to state that 1hp = 12,000 ideally except for losses due to efficiency, hardly excuses this one "1/4 3,926btu" which implies 1hp = 15704btu

so maybe the labelling is arbritary , or very approximated. ie: 1/4 hp labelling approx 0.32hp?

----------


## bclee

BTW, 1 HP is a proper scientific unit.

1HP = 1 ton of chilling = 12,000 BTU/h

As you said it, the way they put the HP in the specs really do not make any sense... may I should email one of those chiller makers to get their response.

BC :Confused:

----------


## stephen chung

Actually what loupgarou says is correct. In the commercial world we go by ton of refrigeration. When you tell a chiller make and tell them you want a 200hp chiller they have no idea what you are talking about. 

The most important thing is your Delta T. The difference temperuture between the input water temperuture (into the tank) and the water temperuture out of the tank. From there you can design your chiller capacity.

As for what wattage it requires to run the chiller it all depends on the compressor and the design of chiller. Take my ex company for example, the chiller runs almost 24/7 so using a inverter compressor will use less power than a conventional compressor.

Well, at least this is what the chiller manufacturer BS to me when my ex company wants to replace their old chiller and I was put in charge of the project.  :Smile:

----------


## tawauboy

> Err... this really confuses me.. IF Sp charges for apparent power... which is IV...then there would be no point in putting in those regulators since power factor is no where in teh equation and you still get charged whether you use the device or not.
> 
> IF they charge for actual or true power which is IV x pf... then it would make sense .. cos putting in those regulators would give you a better power factor (lower) and hence save you more money.. no??


apparent power is a vector sum of true power and reactive power.
improving the power factor will reduce the reactive power, thus reducing the apparent power.

----------


## Nicky

I have finally rigged up my Hailea chiller model HC500. I have praised this chiller so much but the preliminary experience has not been good..

There are some things that I like about the chiller but there are some things about it that are really bothering me. Bother me so much that I planned to go back to Petmart that sold me this to get it replaced.. Petmart gave me 1 year warranty. Let's see if they will stick to their words. I will report the outcome here.


- Most serious one.. the internal thermometer of the chiller sucks. When it is showing 25C, my cheap thermometer is showing 23.5C and the water is freaking cold to the touch. Not only that, from 25C (when the chiller turns off) to 26C it only take less than 15 min !!!! Meanwhile my cheap thermometer did not even show 1C change. My tank is slight bigger than 4x2x2 ft. This cannot be because the ambient temperature is only 28.5C and the photo-period of my tank is long over. I am using Eheim 2028 to push the flow through the chiller. The specs say 1200-3000 L/hr. Is it possible the problem is due to the flow rate? I seriously doubt so, as SystemControl who also sells this chiller, told me a seperate controller is needed to prevent the chiller from kicking in 'too frequently, as frequent as every few minute'. Definitely sounds like same problem I am facing now. Unfortunately the problem (as well as why the additional controller is needed) was not properly articulate to me when I asked and because of that, I was not able to justify to myself paying more than half of the chiller price for the additional gadget. So looks like my problem is not an isolated one..


- The hose connector is slightly too big for the eheim 18/22mm hose. I have to use boiling water to expand the hose plus use 2 fingers to make the hose wider and use vaseline to force the hose onto the connector. It is really bad design. Makes me think of the chinese saying 'close-door-manufacture-car'. Looks like Hailea still do not know the common size of the hoses used by aquarium hobbists in the world today..


- Though the digital display is showing 1 decimal place, the temp cannot be set to that resolution; you can only set the temp to the next whole number.


- This chiller is not as quiet as what I heard at one of the LFS. Probably that LFS is very noisy. In actual fact it sounds like those cheap mini-fridge when it is running. I would strongly discourage you to use it if your fish tank is in your bedroom, unless your objective is to drive your spouse/gf/bf away.


- As expected the English used in the instruction booklet sucks. So bad that I have to read most of the paragraphs a few times aloud before understand the possible meaning. Why can't Hailea get a proper translation? 


So looks like I have bought myself a big black lemon with blue digital display. I took lots of pictures showing each steps of the installation but I don't think you want to see them now that I have reported so much problems with this chiller.

Will report what Petmart says.

----------


## tawauboy

> Here's the reply from spservices.. hehe.. I'm right..


yes. i got it wrong.
actually, the answer is there all the time; kwh power meter - kilowatt means true power.

however, do note that the electrical tariff for home users have factored in the potential poor power factor that arise from running many reactive loads. thus, home users electrical tariff are higher than industrial users.

----------


## tawauboy

> Low tension accounts????? whats that? like people that dont use as much compared to big establishments e.g. takashimaya?? 
> Would those qualify as high tension accounts?? so its safe to presume taht for those accounts they use a different formula...hmmm...?? so perhaps thats why they use those power factor ehancers??


low tension accounts - home users whose supply are 240v
high tension accounts - generally buildings/facilities with their own transformer rooms and takes in 22kv and probably 66kv. these facilities' electrical tariff are made up of 4 components and do benefit from power factor correction equipment.

----------


## stephen chung

> I have finally rigged up my Hailea chiller model HC500. I have praised this chiller so much but the preliminary experience has not been good..
> 
> There are some things that I like about the chiller but there are some things about it that are really bothering me. Bother me so much that I planned to go back to Petmart that sold me this to get it replaced.. Petmart gave me 1 year warranty. Let's see if they will stick to their words. I will report the outcome here.
> 
> 
> - Most serious one.. the internal thermometer of the chiller sucks. When it is showing 25C, my cheap thermometer is showing 23.5C and the water is freaking cold to the touch. Not only that, from 25C (when the chiller turns off) to 26C it only take less than 15 min !!!! Meanwhile my cheap thermometer did not even show 1C change. My tank is slight bigger than 4x2x2 ft. This cannot be because the ambient temperature is only 28.5C and the photo-period of my tank is long over. I am using Eheim 2028 to push the flow through the chiller. The specs say 1200-3000 L/hr. Is it possible the problem is due to the flow rate? I seriously doubt so, as SystemControl who also sells this chiller, told me a seperate controller is needed to prevent the chiller from kicking in 'too frequently, as frequent as every few minute'. Definitely sounds like same problem I am facing now. Unfortunately the problem (as well as why the additional controller is needed) was not properly articulate to me when I asked and because of that, I was not able to justify to myself paying more than half of the chiller price for the additional gadget. So looks like my problem is not an isolated one..
> 
> 
> - The hose connector is slightly too big for the eheim 18/22mm hose. I have to use boiling water to expand the hose plus use 2 fingers to make the hose wider and use vaseline to force the hose onto the connector. It is really bad design. Makes me think of the chinese saying 'close-door-manufacture-car'. Looks like Hailea still do not know the common size of the hoses used by aquarium hobbists in the world today..
> ...



Nick,

Sorry to hear that you have so much problem. I guess the old chinese saying is still true "1 penny money, 1 penny goods"...

Looks like a china product is still a china product.

----------


## Nicky

Petmart has asked the distributor to contact me.
The distributor will send somebody to my place to see what they can do.
Will report the outcome.

Meanwhile, since I've already taken the pictures of the chiller, I thought might as well share it here..

Views from the outside of the box

----------


## Nicky

View when the box was opened

----------


## Nicky

Air Filter






Inside of the Chiller






Label on the compressor (not made by Mitsubishi, damn.. got cheated  :Exasperated:  )






Labels on the outside

----------


## Nicky

Hose Connector and Connection
Noticed how badly stretched the eheim hose is?







Final Layout in the cabinet

----------


## bclee

The chiller looks very similar to the Resun chillers. From your description, the operation also seems to be like Resun's.




> ...
> - Most serious one.. the internal thermometer of the chiller sucks. When it is showing 25C, my cheap thermometer is showing 23.5C and the water is freaking cold to the touch. Not only that, from 25C (when the chiller turns off) to 26C it only take less than 15 min !!!! Meanwhile my cheap thermometer did not even show 1C change. My tank is slight bigger than 4x2x2 ft. This cannot be because the ambient temperature is only 28.5C and the photo-period of my tank is long over. I am using Eheim 2028 to push the flow through the chiller. The specs say 1200-3000 L/hr. Is it possible the problem is due to the flow rate? I seriously doubt so, as SystemControl who also sells this chiller, told me a seperate controller is needed to prevent the chiller from kicking in 'too frequently, as frequent as every few minute'. Definitely sounds like same problem I am facing now. Unfortunately the problem (as well as why the additional controller is needed) was not properly articulate to me when I asked and because of that, I was not able to justify to myself paying more than half of the chiller price for the additional gadget. So looks like my problem is not an isolated one..
> ...


Yes, it should be flowrate problem. I have that problem when the flowrate is too low. The "reservoir" or cooling chamber inside gets cool too fast cut off before the flowrate is fast enough to cycle the water.

BC

----------


## Nicky

How about the inaccuracy of build-in thermometer? Do you know why it is showing 27.xC when my external one is showing 25C?

Surely if the flowrate is too slow it should be the reversed, right?  :Confused:

----------


## neon

Nicky:

My observation / my belief on the chiller :

a) Leave aside the whole saga of an additional thermostat with external sensoras I mentioned in my previous post, I don't care whatever brand of chiller, as long as the temp sensor is not taken from the tank, I don't think it is accurate. 
b) your flow rate is slightly on the low side . If you are comparing your current setup (flow rate) vs a higher flow rate (faster pump,etc) , the later one cooling result is much more effective with shorter time. You can see a big difference in the time in term of cooling result especially with a external sensor.
c) You kept the chiller in the cabinet, and a lot of the hot air from the chiller will eventually suck in again, and the heat exchange will not effective under this condition.

----------


## PeterGwee

> How about the inaccuracy of build-in thermometer? Do you know why it is showing 27.xC when my external one is showing 25C?
> 
> Surely if the flowrate is too slow it should be the reversed, right?


Probably a bad thermal sensor for the chiller if your "feel" test is cold enough.

Regards
Peter Gwee

----------


## Nicky

> a) Leave aside the whole saga of an additional thermostat with external sensoras I mentioned in my previous post, I don't care whatever brand of chiller, as long as the temp sensor is not taken from the tank, I don't think it is accurate.


Your point A is valid, I think.





> b) your flow rate is slightly on the low side . If you are comparing your current setup (flow rate) vs a higher flow rate (faster pump,etc) , the later one cooling result is much more effective with shorter time. You can see a big difference in the time in term of cooling result especially with a external sensor.


This, together with your point A, are good reasons for having an external sensor. Another thing to learn about this chiller saga is that, too big a chiller for a tank is actually counter productive.

I'm still trying to figure how your external sensor works. Does it work like the following? Do you have a picture to show us how it all connects together?

_- The external sensor sense the temp of the water, and it is connected to the 'power-socket' from which the chiller derives its electrical power. So when the sensor thinks it is not time to operate, the chiller has zero electrical power and it is totally switch off, even without power to the LCD display. Then when the sensor thinks it is time to work, it provide power to the attached 'power socket'. As far as the chiller is concerned, it is like someone has just turn on the switch. For this to work the temp setting of the chiller must set low (say 15C). And even if the external sensor accidentally drops out of the water, the chiller will cut off its operations when the 'internal reservoir' reaches 15C. Am I right?_





> c) You kept the chiller in the cabinet, and a lot of the hot air from the chiller will eventually suck in again, and the heat exchange will not effective under this condition.


My cabinet is designed for air circulation lah.. it does not have a backing; you can see my back wall from the picture. And all 3 other sides of the cabinet are louvered. Plus my tank is right next to my main door and so air circulation in that area is very good. Good thoughts though..

----------


## bclee

> How about the inaccuracy of build-in thermometer? Do you know why it is showing 27.xC when my external one is showing 25C?
> 
> Surely if the flowrate is too slow it should be the reversed, right?


My Resun chiller has an offset adjustment to calibrate the thermometer. Does yours have one? Maybe you need to calibrate the temperature reading.

BC

----------


## loupgarou

> a) Leave aside the whole saga of an additional thermostat with external sensoras I mentioned in my previous post, I don't care whatever brand of chiller, as long as the temp sensor is not taken from the tank, I don't think it is accurate.


I don't think I have this problem with my artica chiller when I was using it, it was set to 26 most of the time, and compared against the floating alcohol type thermometer...

--
meanwhile, nicky, have you tried placing chiller outside the cabinet and see if that affects anything?

----------


## Nicky

> My Resun chiller has an offset adjustment to calibrate the thermometer. Does yours have one? Maybe you need to calibrate the temperature reading.
> 
> BC


Don't think this chiller allows calibration of internal thermometer. I thought this should be quite a basic requirement. It is not reference to in the instruction.
There is only 3 buttons; Set, Up and Down.
Maybe there is a special combination that can set the internal thermometer.
Will wait for the service man of the distributor to come to my house and comment.

----------


## Nicky

> meanwhile, nicky, have you tried placing chiller outside the cabinet and see if that affects anything?


Because the cabinet is place in area where there are good air flow, I honestly don't think it will make any difference but if the service man (to be sent by the distributor) comment on this I have all the hose ready to effect the change on the spot.

----------


## bclee

> Don't think this chiller allows calibration of internal thermometer. I thought this should be quite a basic requirement. It is not reference to in the instruction.
> There is only 3 buttons; Set, Up and Down.
> Maybe there is a special combination that can set the internal thermometer.
> Will wait for the service man of the distributor to come to my house and comment.


Mine has 3 buttons too. I think you need to press one of the buttons (should be the set button) and hold.

BC

----------


## spinex

Nicky,

I think the problem is at the flowrate. Suggest you get more flowrate to confirm the issue. For china made chiller, usually you will get accurate performance provided the flowrate is higher than what's their recommendation. Your eheim 2028 is stated to be 1200-1300L/hr but due to your piping length and media .... etc i suspect maybe flowrate at 1000L/hr.

I find that's the same with Resun chiller. With my Resun 1/10HP chiller .. i'm using a 1200L/hr Eheim 1250 pump to drive it. I have tried to use external reactor from NA and it slowed the flowrate .. maybe to 800L/hr and the chiller kicking in seem less consistent already.

----------


## Nicky

> Mine has 3 buttons too. I think you need to press one of the buttons (should be the set button) and hold.
> 
> BC


That will allow me to change the temp setting, not calibrating the thermometer. Hiaz..

----------


## neon

> Nicky,
> 
> I think the problem is at the flowrate. Suggest you get more flowrate to confirm the issue. For china made chiller, usually you will get accurate performance provided the flowrate is higher than what's their recommendation. Your eheim 2028 is stated to be 1200-1300L/hr but due to your piping length and media .... etc i suspect maybe flowrate at 1000L/hr.
> 
> I find that's the same with Resun chiller. With my Resun 1/10HP chiller .. i'm using a 1200L/hr Eheim 1250 pump to drive it. I have tried to use external reactor from NA and it slowed the flowrate .. maybe to 800L/hr and the chiller kicking in seem less consistent already.


Mind you , even my setup with a 2262 Eheim (pump + canister) with a pump flow rate of 3400L, because with all my PVC piping etc, the flowrate reduce drastically. One of the occasion I noticed my chilling time took longer, then I noticed my flowrate reduced due to clogging in the canister. After clean up the filter mat, the flow rate improved and the chilling time reduce again.

----------


## Nicky

> Nicky,
> 
> I think the problem is at the flowrate. Suggest you get more flowrate to confirm the issue. For china made chiller, usually you will get accurate performance provided the flowrate is higher than what's their recommendation. Your eheim 2028 is stated to be 1200-1300L/hr but due to your piping length and media .... etc i suspect maybe flowrate at 1000L/hr.
> 
> I find that's the same with Resun chiller. With my Resun 1/10HP chiller .. i'm using a 1200L/hr Eheim 1250 pump to drive it. I have tried to use external reactor from NA and it slowed the flowrate .. maybe to 800L/hr and the chiller kicking in seem less consistent already.


Re. the problem of temp reading fluatuation, I begin to think it is the flow rate issue. But I like my current flowrate in my tank now. So the next step is to source for a external sensor. That should fix the problem. I think the setup should be as shown in the bottom..

But the thermometer is definitely not calibrated properly. When the chiller is not running, my cheap thermometer is showing about 2 to 2.5C LOWER than that display on the chiller. That I definitely want it fixed because it is simply not acceptable that it is not accurate and yet cannot be calibrated by user. On the day when the service man is here, I will set the temp real high on the chiller (so that it will not kick start). That will make the chiller-reservoir water and the aquarium water to be the same temp. Any difference is calbration issue.

----------


## loupgarou

> When the chiller is not running, my cheap thermometer is showing about 2 to 2.5C LOWER than that display on the chiller.


have you just try offsetting the temperature?

ie: if your desired temperature is 25, and the chiller when display 25 actually means 23, then calibrate your chiller for 27

----------


## Nicky

> have you just try offsetting the temperature?
> 
> ie: if your desired temperature is 25, and the chiller when display 25 actually means 23, then calibrate your chiller for 27


If I'm buying a 2nd hand chiller then I will be willing to accept this type of imperfection. At this point I like to hear what the distributor has to say and how they are going to fix my problem. I'm going to stick with my 1 year warranty entitlement.

When I was reading the following product review some weeks back, I remember very clearly that the reviewer compare the external thermometer reading versus the in-build thermometer and comment something like 'whoever say build-in thermometer is not accurate?'.. but I can't seemed to find that statement now. Hmmm... maybe it is a bias review.
http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...pic=50052&st=0

----------


## tawauboy

> a) Leave aside the whole saga of an additional thermostat with external sensoras I mentioned in my previous post, I don't care whatever brand of chiller, as long as the temp sensor is not taken from the tank, I don't think it is accurate.


what is your definition of accurate in this case?
just because the temperature sensor does not measure your tank water temperature, it is not accurate?
temperature sensor accuracy should be determined at the point where it is installed.

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## tawauboy

> If I'm buying a 2nd hand chiller then I will be willing to accept this type of imperfection. At this point I like to hear what the distributor has to say and how they are going to fix my problem. I'm going to stick with my 1 year warranty entitlement.
> 
> When I was reading the following product review some weeks back, I remember very clearly that the reviewer compare the external thermometer reading versus the in-build thermometer and comment something like 'whoever say build-in thermometer is not accurate?'.. but I can't seemed to find that statement now. Hmmm... maybe it is a bias review.
> http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...pic=50052&st=0


maybe you can check the manual to see whether the temperature sensor is mounted at the chiller inlet (hot) or outlet (cold). if the sensor is mounted at the inlet, that could explain the higher temperature displayed by the chiller.

why not shutdown the chiller for a day or 2. then check if there is still a huge difference temperature readings from your chiller and "cheap thermometer". btw, which do you trust more; "cheap thermometer" or chiller display?

----------


## stephen chung

What don't we just sit down and drink a cup of tea and eat a "pao"?? And put all this sensor n Temperature thingy aside.... :Smile:

----------


## neon

Nicky ,

In case you are interested in the FOX thermostat, the URL for the one I am using FOX-1004

http://www.foxeng.co.kr/english/menu/003/sub2.html

Sorry, I did not DIY the way you drew , that is what Tan (Bioplast) having. I replaced my internal thermostat with the Fox-1004, but still I prefer the combination method (internal and external).

----------


## spinex

Nicky,

I think i have seen those device before and if i didn't forget, it was initially DIY by folks in some local marine forum.

Below is my own interpretation/understanding of how this device work. The idea was that the device will power on/off the chiller and the chiller is suppose to be set the kick in temperature lower than the device.

For example :

Temp set on device to kick in : 24 degree
Temp set on chiller to kick in : 18-23 degree. Must be lower than 24. Having 18 is better.

In this way for example if the tank temperature is 25 degree, the device external probe will sense it .. and power on the device where the chiller power is connected to. The chiller being powered on and sensing a temperature of 25 (remember it was set to 23 and lower) will straight away kick in and chill the water.

When the tank temperature as sensed by the external probe is 24 degree, it will just power off supply to the chiller. Hence the chiller stopped chilling even though it was set to cool to 18 degree.

But i wonder all this powering on and off will wear out the chiller. My experience with my chiller is that once it was power on .. it seem like it take some time to startup and start cooling (a few mins). While it was not in use it was always in a some sort of standby mode while waiting for the next kick in.

----------


## stephen chung

Nick,

I just called the boss. Tml I will go down to neg the price. I think he is out with his family.

----------


## neon

> Nicky,
> But i wonder all this powering on and off will wear out the chiller. My experience with my chiller is that once it was power on .. it seem like it take some time to startup and start cooling (a few mins). While it was not in use it was always in a some sort of standby mode while waiting for the next kick in.


The internal thermostat is precisely doing the same thing cut off the power of the chiller compressor and all other bits , except the thermostat itself. The present of the thermostat display gives you the impression the chiller is on standby.

----------


## blackBRUSHalgae

Hi Nicky,

Regarding your cooling inefficiency of your new Hailea Chiller, I hope I'm not too late to help you out on this  :Angel: 

I seriously think that your flowrate of eheim 2028 is not enough to drive your 1/2 hp chiller.

Eheim 2028 flowrate is 1050L/H *( this read out is only for the pump alone without tubing, piping, filter media or canister)* 

It's actual flowrate with media and accessories are around 700ishL/H and that is without the height of the tank and your chiller.Thus after give and take, your eheim 2028 is probably only puting out 600L/H or less.With this kind of flowrate driving a HC-500A chiller with a minimum flowrate rated at 1200L/H, it will only spell trouble.

*Let's say if a chiller has a min flow rate stated at 1000L/H, thus if you have set the chiller to cool your tank to 26 degree, with a flowrate of 1000l or lesser, the internal capacity of the chiller could have already reach 26 degree (due to slow flow rate) and thus the thermostat inside would tell the chiller to stop but while in actual fact, your tank temp is still at 27 or 28 degree. It would also means that it will cause your chiller to kick on/off more often that necessary.*


I hope the senior moderator, *Barracuda*, from http://www.arofanatics.com won't mind me hyperlinking his thread to help out another aquarium enthusiast here. He has an excellent write up about "how a flowrate could affect a chiller's efficiency," which in my opinion, anybody who wishes to employ a chiller in his/her aquarium should read his article first, before jumping into getting one.

How to maximise chiller efficiency BY Barracuda




> I have finally rigged up my Hailea chiller model HC500. I have praised this chiller so much but the preliminary experience has not been good..
> 
> There are some things that I like about the chiller but there are some things about it that are really bothering me. Bother me so much that I planned to go back to Petmart that sold me this to get it replaced.. Petmart gave me 1 year warranty. Let's see if they will stick to their words. I will report the outcome here.
> 
> 
> - Most serious one.. the internal thermometer of the chiller sucks. When it is showing 25C, my cheap thermometer is showing 23.5C and the water is freaking cold to the touch. Not only that, from 25C (when the chiller turns off) to 26C it only take less than 15 min !!!! Meanwhile my cheap thermometer did not even show 1C change. My tank is slight bigger than 4x2x2 ft. This cannot be because the ambient temperature is only 28.5C and the photo-period of my tank is long over. I am using Eheim 2028 to push the flow through the chiller. The specs say 1200-3000 L/hr. Is it possible the problem is due to the flow rate? I seriously doubt so, as SystemControl who also sells this chiller, told me a seperate controller is needed to prevent the chiller from kicking in 'too frequently, as frequent as every few minute'. Definitely sounds like same problem I am facing now. Unfortunately the problem (as well as why the additional controller is needed) was not properly articulate to me when I asked and because of that, I was not able to justify to myself paying more than half of the chiller price for the additional gadget. So looks like my problem is not an isolated one..
> 
> 
> - The hose connector is slightly too big for the eheim 18/22mm hose. I have to use boiling water to expand the hose plus use 2 fingers to make the hose wider and use vaseline to force the hose onto the connector. It is really bad design. Makes me think of the chinese saying 'close-door-manufacture-car'. Looks like Hailea still do not know the common size of the hoses used by aquarium hobbists in the world today..
> ...

----------


## Wzierbovsky

Rather than start a new thread, hope it's OK to use back an old thread.

My 3 month old Hailea 300A chiller has just started to get quirky. For the last couple of months I've set it to run at 27 degrees, and the chiller kicks in every 2 hours or so, and runs for around 8 minutes each time.

Over the last 3 days however, something doesn't seem quite right now. The water according to the chiller reads much higher than what my aquarium thermometer reads, with differences of as much as 5 degrees. E.g. the thermometer reads 24 degrees (and the water feels that cold too), but the chiller says 29 degrees. 

I observed it for a while just now and apparently the chiller is running much more frequently. The chiller cools the water to 27.0 degrees according to its thermostat, and within seconds of its shutting down, the thermostat temperature starts increasing again. It barely takes 2 minutes for the thermostat to move from 27.0 to 28.0 degrees, and the chiller kicks in again to bring it back to 27.0. The overall effect has been that the aquarium water has been continually chilled to as low as 24 degrees.

Any opinions on what could be wrong with the chiller? E.g. it needs cleaning somewhere?

Thanks!

----------


## spinex

> Rather than start a new thread, hope it's OK to use back an old thread.
> 
> My 3 month old Hailea 300A chiller has just started to get quirky. For the last couple of months I've set it to run at 27 degrees, and the chiller kicks in every 2 hours or so, and runs for around 8 minutes each time.
> 
> Over the last 3 days however, something doesn't seem quite right now. The water according to the chiller reads much higher than what my aquarium thermometer reads, with differences of as much as 5 degrees. E.g. the thermometer reads 24 degrees (and the water feels that cold too), but the chiller says 29 degrees. 
> 
> I observed it for a while just now and apparently the chiller is running much more frequently. The chiller cools the water to 27.0 degrees according to its thermostat, and within seconds of its shutting down, the thermostat temperature starts increasing again. It barely takes 2 minutes for the thermostat to move from 27.0 to 28.0 degrees, and the chiller kicks in again to bring it back to 27.0. The overall effect has been that the aquarium water has been continually chilled to as low as 24 degrees.
> 
> Any opinions on what could be wrong with the chiller? E.g. it needs cleaning somewhere?
> ...


Hi i think your chiller thermostat is having some problem. Since your chiller is quite new it's under warranty so it's best to call the dealer and ask them to repair for you.

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## kensk

I own a Hailea 150A chiller and would like to comment on its performance too.
The temperature difference started to deteriorate only weeks after running.

Now, after about 2 months, the diff is about 1.5 degrees. The temperature shown on the chiller is lesser than the real temp.

However I can still calibrate the chiller by pressing the UP and DOWN arrow together for about 5 secs. 
Max calibration is +-1.5 degrees.

Hope it doesn't get worse.

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## spinex

> I own a Hailea 150A chiller and would like to comment on its performance too.
> The temperature difference started to deteriorate only weeks after running.
> 
> Now, after about 2 months, the diff is about 1.5 degrees. The temperature shown on the chiller is lesser than the real temp.
> 
> However I can still calibrate the chiller by pressing the UP and DOWN arrow together for about 5 secs. 
> Max calibration is +-1.5 degrees.
> 
> Hope it doesn't get worse.



I using a 150A also. Used for close to 6 months so far still good. What is your flowrate ?

----------


## kensk

> I using a 150A also. Used for close to 6 months so far still good. What is your flowrate ?


I using Atman CF 800
flowrate : 960L/Hr
Is it too low?

What about you?
How do you maintain your chiller?

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## Wzierbovsky

My flowrate's 1400 litres/hr; I don't think it's a flow rate issue.

Thanks for the advice so far; before I call for the agent to service the thing, I'm going to try calibrating the thermostat, though if it can only be adjusted within 1.5 degrees, that's not going to help much. 

I've removed all the front and side filter panels, and will later try running the chiller to see if I can see anything more. Maybe the fan isn't working, so the motor is running very hot and driving the water temperature up.

----------


## spinex

> I using Atman CF 800
> flowrate : 960L/Hr
> Is it too low?
> 
> What about you?
> How do you maintain your chiller?


Nothing special to maintain it. I tried 1200L/H canister filter and now downgrade to a 500L/H canitser also working fine.

At most i clean the removable window mesh in front of the chiller only a mth or once a few mths.

----------


## spinex

> My flowrate's 1400 litres/hr; I don't think it's a flow rate issue.
> 
> Thanks for the advice so far; before I call for the agent to service the thing, I'm going to try calibrating the thermostat, though if it can only be adjusted within 1.5 degrees, that's not going to help much. 
> 
> I've removed all the front and side filter panels, and will later try running the chiller to see if I can see anything more. Maybe the fan isn't working, so the motor is running very hot and driving the water temperature up.


Fan working or not quite easy to see. Either u can take off the cover and see the fan work when the chiller is kick in or u use a touch and see via the back of the chiller to see whether the fan is running.

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## peter2883

I was reading this thread & this has provided me with some interesting material...

I just bought my Hailea 250A Chiller & I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to fix an external probe to it...

I read in some other threads that the reservoir in the chiller is not the true temp in the tank... There will always be some disparity...

And I agree that you can never have the true reading of the temp in the tank without using an external temp probe...

I've read that there were some guys who DIY-ed an external probe for Resun but not much info for Hailea...

Anyone did it sucessfully before?

I will be buying an external probe & hopefully get some info on how to rewire an external probe...

If you've got some info please share... Thanks. (With pics would be great)

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## peter2883

Sorry just additional stuff I wanted to add... I read that there are people who just cut the wiring on chiller & connected just the probe (Non-electronic type) & placed the probe in the tank.

I think for me this is the best method I would like to try whereas compared to the electronic type it might be too challenging for me... This will provide an accurate temp reading to the chiller which I think would result in the chiller lasting longer...

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## salexjared

I have used my HC-300A chiller without much issue without a external controller.  :Grin: 

I do have a thermometer to monitor the temperature in the tank and so far it is consistently where I want it to be +/- 1 degrees C  :Smug: 

The temperature is around 1 degress off (tank is lower by 1 degree compared to what the chiller says, but then this offset is ok as long as it is consistent).  :Roll Eyes: 

So far so good (about 3 months), keeping my fingers crossed.  :Opps: 

The chiller cost 420 and I heard the cost of the external controller is around 120.  :Knockout:

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## salexjared

Oh... I did take the advise and have a 1500L/hr pump working on this chiller to ensure that the temp is close to what the tank is.

Heard that if you have a low flow rate, it would become a bigger issue.

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## peter2883

I dismantled my chiller to check how the design is like & would like to share what I wanted to do...





I own a Hailea 250A & I've read that as long as the Chillers do not have the probe directly in the tank you will have this problem of having the chiller kick in & out as it cannot detect the right temp...

The water in the tank will always have warmer water than the reservoir in the chiller... I've read in some Hong Kong websites what they do is to rewire a new probe directly into the tank... This way your Chiller will be able to display the true temp & should not kick in so often resulting in lower electric bills... It will detect the true temp & will not kick in so often...

I will be going to Hong Kong to buy this probe to "fix" this problem before I start using this chiller...

I just wanted to share this info with everyone...

I will be cutting the wire that I have arrowed in Red (It's 01 wire I just took pics of both ends)... This will be the Temp Probe I will be cutting... See that one end is connected to the blue display & the other end is in the water reservior in the chiller...

I will then rewire a new Temp Probe & place the end of the probe into the tank...

I will explain a bit although I know this has been written but I wanted everyone to find the info on one thread...

The water will flow into the chiller, stay there for a few seconds & come out of the outlet... But the water that is flowing into the tank will always be warmer than what is in the chiller (Logical?)... So the probe will read that the water is let say at 26 degrees but the water flowing into the chiller from the tank is not 26 degrees as the ambient temp is higher than the water that is the chiller (Logical?)

So if the Temp probe is in the tank than the probe will read the true temp in the tank & hence will not kick in unless the water falls below you pre-set temp... So it should only kick in when the water in the tank drops below your pre-set temp...

As the body of water is greater in the tank (Obviously. This also applies even to nano tanks)... The fluctuations in Temp should not be higher than it originally was in the reservoir as the temp in a bigger body of water will be able to hold the temp better versus the limited amount of water in the small reservoir in the chiller... Coupled with the fact that there is always warmer water flowing into the reservoir in the chiller...

Your chiller should chill the tank to the pre-set temp & will stop once it reaches that temp... It will kick in again once it drops... This will result is less kick in timings...

One more thing I've read that the chiller consumes the most amount of electricity at start up... So if this is the case you can reduce kick in times but yet maintain a constant temp... An example is that a car consumes the most amount of fuel when it moves off from a complete start, this theory applies to chillers...

Please give your comments if I'm not wrong... I hope to be able to help those members that are having inaccurate temp readings which is why the chiller is always kicking in...

Technically your chiller should be able to last longer as it is working less harder...

For those in the know please correct me if you think I'm wrong as I've not yet done the re-wiring as I currently do not have the part...

But I will do it within these 02 weeks...

----------


## neon

> I've read in some Hong Kong websites what they do is to rewire a new probe directly into the tank... This way your Chiller will be able to display the true temp & should not kick in so often resulting in lower electric bills... It will detect the true temp & will not kick in so often...


Bear in mind that not any probe is compatible to your thermostat . You may be wasting your money.

Best to leave your internal thermostat untouch and use an external thermostat . I finally DIY an external thermostat as explained in my 2006 response. Put the probe into the tank, plug your chiller power plug onto this external DIY thermostat power socket, and finally plug the external/DIY thermostat power plug onto your wall socket. 

Setting :
a) Set your chiller internal thermostat to 18 deg C 
b) set the external thermostat to your desire temp (ie 26 deg C)

Running :
a) the external thermostat display is always on , but does not mean the power is supplied to the chiller.
b) when the external thermostat reaches 27 deg C, it will enable the power supply to the DIY socket
c) in turn , the chiller is powered up because supply from the DIY socket is enable.
d) Chiller detects that temp is higher than its 18 deg C setting , so the chiller will kick in within a short while.
e) when the tank water is chilled and reached the temp set in the external thermostat (26 deg C), the external thermostat will cut off the power supply to the socket. Hence the chiller is totally power off. 

My DIY external thermostat :

----------


## tcy81

> Bear in mind that not any probe is compatible to your thermostat . You may be wasting your money.
> 
> Best to leave your internal thermostat untouch and use an external thermostat . I finally DIY an external thermostat as explained in my 2006 response. Put the probe into the tank, plug your chiller power plug onto this external DIY thermostat power socket, and finally plug the external/DIY thermostat power plug onto your wall socket. 
> 
> Setting :
> a) Set your chiller internal thermostat to 18 deg C 
> b) set the external thermostat to your desire temp (ie 26 deg C)
> 
> Running :
> ...


Is this method more efficient in power savings ?
or just a way to get acurrate temperature in your tank?

----------


## stephen chung

> I have used my HC-300A chiller without much issue without a external controller. 
> 
> I do have a thermometer to monitor the temperature in the tank and so far it is consistently where I want it to be +/- 1 degrees C 
> 
> The temperature is around 1 degress off (tank is lower by 1 degree compared to what the chiller says, but then this offset is ok as long as it is consistent). 
> 
> So far so good (about 3 months), keeping my fingers crossed. 
> 
> The chiller cost 420 and I heard the cost of the external controller is around 120.


Actually, the so call accuracy between the tank temperature and the set chiller temperature very much depends on the flow rate. I use to use a eheim 2215 with a cl650 and the difference between the chiller temperature and the tank temperature is so different that I have to use an external controller. But when I change to a Eheim 2028 the difference drop. And I can do without the external controller.

----------


## neon

> Is this method more efficient in power savings ?
> or just a way to get acurrate temperature in your tank?


4 benefits I see :

a) Consistent and accurate temperature sensing
b) the thermostat I chose which allow calibration (offset setting) 
c) reduce the number of kick-in time and is not affected by conditions other than temperature in the tank. Flow rate will only affect the efficiency of the cooling within certain time, but will not cause the frequent kick-in and out .
d) I delay the kick-in time when the temp reach the threshold. ie 15 mins. By delaying to minimize the amount of running time in a single day.

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## dreamzzz

intersting read up..... i own a hailea 380

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## tcy81

> 4 benefits I see :
> 
> a) Consistent and accurate temperature sensing
> b) the thermostat I chose which allow calibration (offset setting) 
> c) reduce the number of kick-in time and is not affected by conditions other than temperature in the tank. Flow rate will only affect the efficiency of the cooling within certain time, but will not cause the frequent kick-in and out .
> d) I delay the kick-in time when the temp reach the threshold. ie 15 mins. By delaying to minimize the amount of running time in a single day.


thanks for the information.
 :Smile:

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## boonpeiu

This new series of Hailea HC series have a known thermostat problem, not sure about the older series. 

I have my Hailea chiller repaired once, and it failed second time. I got a whole set replacement. This 2nd set work perfectly fine, I think it depend on your luck. Quality of product is not consistent.

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## Wzierbovsky

Well, my Hailea's stopped working, just about a year after purchase. The LCD panel is still lit; but when the main power is switched on, it reads the water temperature briefly (e.g. "28 degrees"), then beeps, and displays "P2" on the LCD, and doesn't do anything more.

Any clue what that means? Checked the manual and it says nothing.

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## Wzierbovsky

Update on the above problem with my Hailea chiller. I got a repairman contact from a fellow forumer here, and made arrangements for him to come by my place to see what's wrong. 

As it turned out, it was indeed a thermostat issue. So, the repairman bypassed the internal one and installed an external thermostat, with an additional temperature sensor into the tank. Chiller now works properly again. 

Final cost of repair was $100 (rather expensive IMO), work was completed in around 20 minutes. Repairman was quite a nice guy to talk to as well.

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## boonpeiu

Ex anot depend how you see it :Smile: 
A $300~400 chiller with $100 for simple job, indeed ex! :Sad: 
The ext thermostat easily cost $70 if you check out at Sim Lim Tower, so not ex lah! :Surprised:

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## smk

is there a way to replace the temp probe (rewire another probe to be place in tank) to the existing thermostat/control? 

Anyone know what type of probe is used ?(any common type used for chiller, K type?? can only remember this one .. haha)

IMO , problem is the where we placed the probe (and flowrate) that result in inconsistent start/stop .......the thermostat only react based on temp input. (so why spend $$ for external thermostat)

smk

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## stephen chung

> Update on the above problem with my Hailea chiller. I got a repairman contact from a fellow forumer here, and made arrangements for him to come by my place to see what's wrong. 
> 
> As it turned out, it was indeed a thermostat issue. So, the repairman bypassed the internal one and installed an external thermostat, with an additional temperature sensor into the tank. Chiller now works properly again. 
> 
> Final cost of repair was $100 (rather expensive IMO), work was completed in around 20 minutes. Repairman was quite a nice guy to talk to as well.


Who is that repairman?

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## ivanlo24

Any updates on what happened to Nicky's chiller?

Am looking to purchase the Hailea HC 300A for my 3 x 1.5 x 1.5 ft tank.

Any recommendations?

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## windcharm

I am also looking for a chiller for my 24" 20" 20" fish tank. 

Any recommendation?

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