# General > AquaTalk >  Ecosphere

## zoothefreak

Hey does anyone know if this is available in Singapore? I think I saw this before at the Science Center when I was a kid waaaaaaaayyyy back in primary school...

For those who arent really sure what I'm referring to...

its basically a self-sustaining sealed bio-dome nano universe consisting of red hawaiian shrimp and algae... well not really appealing when I put it that way but here check it out yourself  :Jump for joy: 
http://www.eco-sphere.com/home.htm

There are also inexpensive ways of replicating and DIY-ing an ecosphere too but does anyone know where I can obtain these species of shrimp in sg?

So gimme a holla if you have any info ya...  :Grin:

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## davwong

You can get the shrimp from Petmart but it quite ex for the tiny shrimp.

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## Fuzzy

Don't support ecospheres they are a lie.

They are NOT enclosed functioning ecosystems and the shrimp are being slowly tortured to death inside.

You can read more here.
http://www.petshrimp.com/hawaiianredshrimp.html

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## zoothefreak

Check this one article out... 

http://cdn.oreilly.com/make/wp_aquanaut.pdf

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## zoothefreak

> You can get the shrimp from Petmart but it quite ex for the tiny shrimp.


 
Ahh thanks will check em out...  :Jump for joy: 

I will probably try a non-enclosed Nano tank for these hardy shrimp and see how it goes... anyone knows how to cultivate hair algae or staghorn algae?

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## Oculus

http://www.fukubonsai.com/ caries complete biotopes for the Opae'ula the even sell full breeding colonies but very expensive to get the large one.

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## Fuzzy

> http://www.fukubonsai.com/ caries complete biotopes for the Opae'ula the even sell full breeding colonies but very expensive to get the large one.


Unfortunately they will not ship overseas, more specifically, to Singapore.
Incredibly prohibitive shipping costs aside.

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## zoothefreak

I abandoned my ecosphere project for a nano filtered and lighted cherry shrimp setup  :Smile:  

will try a non filtered and lighted planted moss setup on a betta tank soon after I've mastered the cherries...

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## khseah79

cool... must be hot demand thats why now sg also have. just went through the site but never states how many shrimps are in each ecosphere

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## khongbox

I know there are 3 shrimps in the smallest ecosphere.

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## cheetf

Wow your sales thread can be seen in so many forums.

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## alvinchan80

> I know there are 3 shrimps in the smallest ecosphere.


3 shrimps in a small sphere? how cruel can it be?
the shrimps poo, pee & molt in the same environment for 1-2 years when it can live for 10-20 years outside of it? I think its very cruel to do that to any livestock...

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## khongbox

> 3 shrimps in a small sphere? how cruel can it be?
> the shrimps poo, pee & molt in the same environment for 1-2 years when it can live for 10-20 years outside of it? I think its very cruel to do that to any livestock...


Hi! It's a really tiny shrimp, not those you see in freshwater nor marine tanks. Besides, these tiny shrimps are not intelligent like dogs, so they do not feel like they are trapped. I would frown at anyone who do not dog walk regularly though  :Smile:  

Regarding life-span, it is a fact that domesticated animals do live a shorter life though, just like any aquarium fishes, be it freshwater or marine, the worse being marine fishes which more often than not just do not have the right food in a tank because of specialized diet in the wild.

Frankly, philosophically speaking, it is far more cruel to farm and put pigs & cows in "jails" so that we can eat them. Did you know that pigs are shown to be more intelligent than dogs even though they look stupid and even have that stereotype in our human language? I am for one for keeping ecosphere than eating pork and beef.....yes, I do walk the talk..... I do not eat red meat in general.

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## khongbox

Yeah, trying to reach out to people who were looking for it in the past when ecosphere wasn't available in Singapore.

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## avex30

guys you talking to a business man not a samaritan. People open a shop in marina square high rental fee leh. We hobbist will not support but those whom pocket that are deep (i didn't use this term a long time) Once they walk in and their little prince or princess say this "DADDY SO CUTE NO NEED FEED NO MESS I WANT". Business close done good out of my shop money to the bank......... it is only us hobbist whom are more humane will protest....... Why not to prove to the world is not cruelty to them shrimp by creating a live size eco system and put a yourself in there and see whether it works or not?

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## avex30

> Hi! Have you seen the ecosphere? If you had and you compare the animal to space ratio of the ecosphere to that of a typical fish tank, you will find that the tiny shrimps have in relative to body size, more room to swim around in the ecosphere than your typically bigger fishes in a typical fish tank unless you are so rich to provide a really huge tank. Check it out for youself mid of this month at Marina Square, & you will see what I mean. It is not like you are putting a gold fish in the ecosphere....these shrimps are really very tiny.


Woo i will sure check it out how tiny are those shrimps so does it mean they are tiny they are suitable to such cruelty? I read your website so may i suggest no need a ecosphere just do it in your everyday live stand is pail and shower collect the water and do it all over again and use it over and over. If you are able to change water at least i will shut my trap but apparent it is fully enclose. I ain't talking to you about practicality i m saying it is CRUEL to house a living thing in a enclose sphere with no fresh water change etc....... ecosphere??? I guess it is just misusing the name yea eco- cause no need to change water, no need use eletric, no need to waste feeding etc. Hmm i sound more like a scene when the P.O.W is being torture to get him or her to spill the beans.

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## cheetf

> Hi! It's a really tiny shrimp, not those you see in freshwater nor marine tanks. Besides, these tiny shrimps are not intelligent like dogs, so they do not feel like they are trapped. I would frown at anyone who do not dog walk regularly though  
> 
> Regarding life-span, it is a fact that domesticated animals do live a shorter life though, just like any aquarium fishes, be it freshwater or marine, the worse being marine fishes which more often than not just do not have the right food in a tank because of specialized diet in the wild.
> 
> Frankly, philosophically speaking, it is far more cruel to farm and put pigs & cows in "jails" so that we can eat them. Did you know that pigs are shown to be more intelligent than dogs even though they look stupid and even have that stereotype in our human language? I am for one for keeping ecosphere than eating pork and beef.....yes, I do walk the talk..... I do not eat red meat in general.


Fish and shrimp are farmed too, so you a Vegetarian?

Firstly you barge in here and sell your wares whereas us the hobbyist have to abide by the forum rules for buy/sell. That in itself is not very nice. I would like to be the first to protest to the Mods.

Secondly, cruelty is cruelty no matter how you put it. You are very lucky you live in Singapore, if you were in Switzerland you will be in jail by now for cruelty to animals. Cows and pigs are kept for a purpose, that is as food for humans, what is the purpose of the shrimp in the ecosphere might I ask? Why are they subjected to such conditions? You don't feed them, you don't clean their environment, why don't you try living like that? or are you already walking the talk too?

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## khongbox

Hi Avex30 & cheetf,

I think the word cruelty is a very debatable topic as it is outside the realm of science obviously. For that reason, it becomes a subjective topic, and while we disagree on certain things, I shall not continue to debate with you endlessly here as far as philosophy is concerned. If the ecosphere truly offended you, we sincerely apologize to you. If you would like to further pursue your cause on this, may I suggest you drop a line to the creator of Ecosphere in Arizona, USA here: http://www.eco-sphere.com/

Perhaps after having chatted with them, you may understand how this byproduct of NASA's creation, did in some way contribute to space technology.....it was created to understand how Man could survive in space.

Your point regarding recycling water to bath again & again...precisely, this is what ecosphere is trying to demonstrate that crabs eat shit and we eat crabs! We are in a world of recycling...nothing goes to waste because all waste are food for bacteria who "eats" them. And in the case of ecosphere, the content is precisely designed such that waste & energy & resources are recycled in a closed system.....the only input from outside needed being the sun.....much like the world we live in!

No I am not a vegetarian, but I do believe a pig does feel lonely & fear & appreciate physical pain a thousand times more so than a tiny shrimp does. I am a zoologist by training but it does not take a degree to know that the brain of a pig is far more closer to the sophistication of that of Man's than that of a shrimp does. Yes for me, I do feel terrible caging a pig than a chicken. To me the ability of an animal to appreciate suffering is in relation to the complexity of the brain in a continuous and graded spectrum. Of course what I just said isn't exactly science which does NOT deal with adjectives like "loneliness" & "suffering". Thus again this vegetarianism topic is also debatable much like a subjective religion as so many factors are conjectures rather than known facts. Thus, I will also not go further in this route of discussing my personal choice of not eating red meat only, except that I had brought out this diet choice to make a point in the previous context.

Regarding the point where you had probably rightly mentioned that I should not advertise here, I did take the risk that since I was responding to a thread where people asked where to buy it in Singapore, I thought perhaps by answering the questions, it may not amount to outright blatant advertisement. At the end of the day, we are just like everyone here trying to make a living as you are aware, advertising is CRUCIAL to any business. So if you were to report me as spam and the moderator agrees with you, I will totally accept that decision. No problem and we apologise again. Cheers guys!

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## David Moses Heng

I believe that the first thing that every aspiring merchant should do is to apply for a merchant account.

Cheetf and avex30, this thread has already caught the attention of the moderating team and I suggest that the names calling and whatever un warranted comments be stop this instance.

Let us all make AQ a place where we can learn from each other and help promote this hobby without malice.

Cheers!!

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## eviltrain

cheaper alternatives  :Very Happy:  

DIY EcoSpheres

But i will just stick to seed shrimps / water fleas if im going to do 1.

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## cheetf

> cheaper alternatives  
> 
> DIY EcoSpheres
> 
> But i will just stick to seed shrimps / water fleas if im going to do 1.


Okok good idea, I think I keep planaria.  :Razz:

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## avex30

> I believe that the first thing that every aspiring merchant should do is to apply for a merchant account.
> 
> Cheetf and avex30, this thread has already caught the attention of the moderating team and I suggest that the names calling and whatever un warranted comments be stop this instance.
> 
> Let us all make AQ a place where we can learn from each other and help promote this hobby without malice.
> 
> Cheers!!


Dear Mod 

1st - i don't see me doing name calling
2nd - The 1st mistake was to use this as a sales thread
3rd - i am just pointing that this is not right if like i said if it is like those nano setup yes. We can consider it a hobby and greatly promote it. How is it consider a hobby when you don't do water change and don't feed??
4th - This is hardly a hobby it like selling a ornamental thing to be put in one of your desk more like for show rather than a hobby.
5th - Great this is a forum and yes we should share but if you see something cruel being done wouldn't you feel displease about it.

Let show example animal rights have been all this years trying hard to change the people mindset of put sharp knife on fighting cock cause they are cruelty to these fowl? 
Animal rights also all this years trying to prevent shark hunting for their fins. Just because this shrimp are tiny do they need to be subject to such extreme??? 
Or must we wait till animal right start to notice such inhumane act than we all starts to voice?? Like i said it a forum i am just voicing such act it KILL the HOBBY. 

Thanks for reading my ranting.

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## David Moses Heng

hi Avex30,

I appreciate your reply and please allow me to offer my apology here if i have offended you in one way or another. I have read through all relevant post and yes, you are right to point out that neither you nor cheetf did engage in name calling. My intent in posting thread number 19 was more to caution then to reprimand.

And being a fellow nature lover, I would say that I too do not agree of cruelty towards animals and in all my work, I have been promoting the message of responsible pet ownership by using the word "SAFARI: to be a responsible pet owner, you will need the following values/habits: *SINCERITY, ACCOUNTABILITY, FIRMNESS, ALERTNESS OF MIND, READ UP* and *INQUISITIVE MIND"* But my question here is while we are passionate of the cause that we are promoting, would it be wiser to either bring it behind the scene through PM or email?

While there is a place for face to face confrontation, I firmly and sincerely believe that AQ is NOT the place to do it, surely not in the open forum.

Like I say, we are all here to learn about the hobby, promote the hobby and enjoy the hobby. 

I hope that I have made myself clear and should there be any differences in opinion, you are most welcome to discuss with me via pm.

Regards.

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## khongbox

> I believe that the first thing that every aspiring merchant should do is to apply for a merchant account.


Dear Moderator,

I would like to apologize yet again and assure you this won't happen again. I will consider your suggestion above.  :Smile:

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