# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Aquatic Moss Club >  moss at NA

## hatchet

Hello everyone, 2 months back I bought some taiwan moss from Chan, until today, the moss has not grown. The progress is zero. Anybody knows anything about his moss? He said that the moss can grow at 29 -30degrees. It's been acclimatize.
Any advise on how I can make the moss grow? Thanks.

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## hatchet

Hello everyone, 2 months back I bought some taiwan moss from Chan, until today, the moss has not grown. The progress is zero. Anybody knows anything about his moss? He said that the moss can grow at 29 -30degrees. It's been acclimatize.
Any advise on how I can make the moss grow? Thanks.

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## hatchet

Hello everyone, 2 months back I bought some taiwan moss from Chan, until today, the moss has not grown. The progress is zero. Anybody knows anything about his moss? He said that the moss can grow at 29 -30degrees. It's been acclimatize.
Any advise on how I can make the moss grow? Thanks.

----------


## hatchet

Hello everyone, 2 months back I bought some taiwan moss from Chan, until today, the moss has not grown. The progress is zero. Anybody knows anything about his moss? He said that the moss can grow at 29 -30degrees. It's been acclimatize.
Any advise on how I can make the moss grow? Thanks.

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## PeterGwee

Any dosing of liquid fertilizer? Enough CO2?

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## sherchoo

Low temp is quite important. Not sure what is the lighting requirments.... mine turned brown initially but seem to bounce back now.

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## hatchet

I use v30, E15, A1 and Gold 7. Co2 is 3bps. I suspect its either temperature or lighting too strong. I guess what I need is patience. Will see what happens after another month, if still zero growth, will stop dreaming of planting moss for the time being.

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## peterkoh

Your best bet is temp. my tank is 29-31. It's struggled and eventually melted away. [email protected] is impt and moderate light should be enough. If your temp is 27 or lower, I think you stand a better chance.

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## AnA

Any fish like SAE? Mine like to feed on the moss. [ :Knockout: ]

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## anakin

Oh dear, mine is also Taiwanese Moss from Chan - but Lorba said his grew very well after he added in shrimps - the browning stopped and the whole thing flourishing. Now keeping my fingers crossed...

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## jamesneo

Use two dc fan(80mm) and blown it directly on top of the tank near the water surface will do. That what i do.
No need for fert.

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## anakin

James,, I have 6 DC fans blowing over my moss wall - temp ~27 - 28C when the lights are switched on. Just hoping the moss can show signs of growth a little bit more obviously. hee [: :Smile: ]

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## lorba

Hi, i bought the moss from chan too abt 3mths ago. No growth initially for me. But few weeks ago, i decided to turn my co2 supply higher, surprisingly, most of the moss has now lengthened by 0.4-1.0 cm, or at least show signs of new growth. The temperature was also maintained at abt 26-27 for the last 2mths.

As for the shrimps, i think i tied the moss too thick initially, and they die off due to insufficient light? The Shrimps might have help to clear the dead plants. But i do notice some new shoots growing out among the brown patches.

I am not using those co2 tank, but the plate reactor/diffuser instead, so can't really tell the diff as compared to bubble rate.

Anakin: what do you mean by fans blowing on the moss wall? Your moss is grown out of the water? I thought the fans should be blowing at the water surface to help dissipate heat through evaporation?

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## scoobydoo

> ----------------
> On 11/11/2002 3:12:14 PM 
> 
> James,, I have 6 DC fans blowing over my moss wall - temp ~27 - 28C when the lights are switched on. Just hoping the moss can show signs of growth a little bit more obviously. hee [:] 
> ----------------


Anakin, how big is your tank ? I have 4 fans for my 3ft and I can only get my temp down to between 29-30C, and my moss looks half dead. Am considering adding more fans if it can get my temp lower.

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## lorba

hi scooby, mine is also 3ft and i am only using 1. Take a look at timebomb's homepage, i am using the kind of fan he is using. I position it at 45 degree over the water surface. temp of my tank is abt 26-27.

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## ryan

oh you guys are saying that the moss from chan doesn't require a chiller? but my tank is not in an airconditioned room...
i'm starting a 4 feet tank and will be having 4x36watts pl + 1x40 watts fl lights...
how many fans do ya'll reccommend i get for the tank so i can grow the christmas moss?

btw christmas moss is the same as taiwan moss right?

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## lorba

yupz, they r the same. I think christmas moss thrive in low temp. If you can keep it in cold env, it would be best. But to achieve 26-28, i guess u don't need a chiller. 3 fans for 4ft i think would be enough, huh? Just that you will have to top up water frequently.

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## turaco

What will happen to moss if lighting is too strong?(other factor ideal)

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## timebomb

The Chritmas moss is not the same as the one called Taiwan Moss. Let me try and clear up the confusion. In the old days, only one fish shop in Singapore (Crowntol) had this beautiful moss and they called it Triangular moss. The Triangular moss later became known as Christmas moss. Recently, something like about a year ago, a new moss from Taiwan appeared in the fish shops. They look like Christmas but their fronds do not have the triangular shapes. This moss is known as Taiwan Moss and is also sometimes called Mini Moss. Someone also gave me a bit of moss he collected from a nature reserve in Singapore. He said he grows them together with the Christmas moss in his tanks and they look exactly the same.

A lot of confusion arises from the fact that when grown poorly, the Christmas moss looks like Taiwan Moss, or Willow Moss for that matter. Some people even say the Christmas Moss looks exactly the same as Java. In such cases, it's usually because they have adult SAEs in their tanks. Adult SAEs will eat the Christmas moss and prune them in such a way that only the branches are left uneaten, thereby giving the wrong impression that Christmas is Java. Cherry Barbs are also known to eat moss too.

If you are using cooling fans, you have to let them run non-stop before you can bring the temp in your tanks down to 28 degrees C. If you are not getting that temperature, it would probably be because your fans are too small. I once used 4 three-inch square cooling fans and they didn't even lower the temp in my tank by half a degree. Now I use 3 four-inch square fans and the temp hovers around 27 to 28 degrees most of the time. The lowest temp ever recorded in my tank was 24.7 C on one very cold December morning.

To grow the christmas moss well, try and add a bit more iron into your tanks. It does not matter if you are using high or low lighting. Even CO2 injection is not that important. Soft water and low temperatures are the 2 things that helps the moss grow well.

Take a look at my homepage at:

http://www.geocities.com/aironfire

Loh K L

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## ryan

> ----------------
> On 11/11/2002 5:08:05 PM 
> 
> The Chritmas moss is not the same as the one called Taiwan Moss. Let me try and clear up the confusion. In the old days, only one fish shop in Singapore (Crowntol) had this beautiful moss and they called it Triangular moss. The Triangular moss later became known as Christmas moss. Recently, something like about a year ago, a new moss from Taiwan appeared in the fish shops. They look like Christmas but their fronds do not have the triangular shapes. This moss is known as Taiwan Moss and is also sometimes called Mini Moss. Someone also gave me a bit of moss he collected from a nature reserve in Singapore. He said he grows them together with the Christmas moss in his tanks and they look exactly the same.
> 
> A lot of confusion arises from the fact that when grown poorly, the Christmas moss looks like Taiwan Moss, or Willow Moss for that matter. Some people even say the Christmas Moss looks exactly the same as Java. In such cases, it's usually because they have adult SAEs in their tanks. Adult SAEs will eat the Christmas moss and prune them in such a way that only the branches are left uneaten, thereby giving the wrong impression that Christmas is Java. Cherry Barbs are also known to eat moss too.
> 
> If you are using cooling fans, you have to let them run non-stop before you can bring the temp in your tanks down to 28 degrees C. If you are not getting that temperature, it would probably be because your fans are too small. I once used 4 three-inch square cooling fans and they didn't even lower the temp in my tank by half a degree. Now I use 3 four-inch square fans and the temp hovers around 27 to 28 degrees most of the time. The lowest temp ever recorded in my tank was 24.7 C on one very cold December morning.
> 
> ...


wow!!!
thanks for your reply man!
will jbl ferropol do? or will i have to use the more expensive ferts like dennerle? this is for the iron i mean...
btw where did U get your fans from?

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## timebomb

will jbl ferropol do? or will i have to use the more expensive ferts like dennerle? this is for the iron i mean...
btw where did U get your fans from?
----------------
I'm using JBL's Ferropol but to tell the truth, I rarely add fertiliser to my tanks. And when I do add fertiliser, I do it haphazardly. The moss is actually a very tough plant. They grow in all my tanks, in the darkest corners and also in tanks which do not have CO2 injection. I have many moss in hatching trays too where I use them to raise my killifish. The trays are under shade all the time and yet the moss stays alive. As far as I know, the moss is so tough the only way it can die is if you burn it. Even dried out moss will live again when submersed into water. Someone whose moss got lost in the mail told me that when it reached him 4 months later, half of the moss was still green. Imagine that!!!!!! 4 months in an envelope and the moss was still alive. Just kidding, but if you cannot keep the moss alive, maybe you should take up another hobby [ :Grin: ] 

I bought my fans from the hardware shops around Kelantan Lane. There are several shops there that sell these fans.

By the way, you don't have to quote my whole message when asking a question. Quoting unnecessary text can be very irritating to those who are following the thread. And it's such a waste of bandwidth. 

Loh K L

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## budak

After months of handwringing and seeing uncle Pete's tanks, I finally took the plunge anew and tore up my 3 footer, added base fert (which it didn't had) and tied lots of moss and ferns (javas and bolbitis) to the wood. Previously, the temp was rather high (min 30C) due to the PL lights (36Wx4), so mosses did badly. But now I added a 6 fan AC unit from Chan, and this is already bringing the temp to a noticaebly cool 26C. Hope this will get the moss moving.

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## ryan

by the way time bomb, your christmas moss wall is beautiful...
it has just made me do one specially for my 2 feet tank...
how much moss is enough for a 2 feet wall? from chan? 5 bucks or 10?

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## lorba

thanks timebomb for the info. But i remember reading from several sources that taiwan = triangluar = christmas moss, hmmm.. Was flipping thru Aqua Journal (vol 3 :Cool:  a moment ago and saw a page (which i missed) introducing 6 different type of mosses. Here's for the benefit of those who didn't buy it.

1) Willow moss - fontinalis antipyretica
2) Water fern moss - Cratoneuron filicinum
3) Mizu kyaraba goke - taxiphyllum barbieri
4) Howo goke (pope moss) - fissidens japonica
5) Amazonia willow moss (christmas moss) - vesicularia sp.
6) Java moss - vesicularia dubyana

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## kubrich

somehow my christmas moss has not been doing very well,i keep my temp at about between 26 deg celcius to about 28,have about 60watts of lights in my 2ft and co2 is at 3bps,since the out break of bba on my xmas moss i been dosing my liquid fert(jbl ferropol) in reduced doses and spread out over the week and only after 4 hours after lights have come on,the fight against bba seems really extended and ardious,really discouraging,i've since stopped feeding my fishes fbw and feed them only pellets once a day in moderation.currently i have about 90+ malayans and 20 yamatos and 2 sae's and 3 ottos to combat algae...but still,my moss's growth is slow,and the algal growth is rampant...i've tried adding in faster growing plants and more water changes,trimming my plants and all but progress is extremely slow....i guess if u want to keep xmas moss,gotta take note of ure water params,once u get bba on ure moss it can be a real pain...and to me,its really discouraging,esp when the moss is the main piece of my tank...[ :Embarassed: ]

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## anakin

----------------
[/quote]
Anakin, how big is your tank ? I have 4 fans for my 3ft and I can only get my temp down to between 29-30C, and my moss looks half dead. Am considering adding more fans if it can get my temp lower.
----------------
[/quote]

scoobydoo, mine's a W120xD45xH60 about 324l in all. It's placed in a non air-cond living room but away from direct sunlight. My lights are 220W in total. if you look at the last pic (Day 3) in my Aquarium album, you can just make out the 6xDC fans between my moss wall and light. I leave them on 24/7 - think it's a good idea as water takes a long time to heat up or cool down - so switching on the fans when the temp is too high will not work. BTW, where's your tank situated in your place? Any help to unravel your high temp mystery? Of course, the other possibility is that my thermometer is 'koo-koo' also.[ :Grin: ] hmmm, maybe should get a digital thermometer to test hor... :Mad: 

http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/kohsookeong

If I'm not wrong, Roland, yours is a AC fan - much bigger (and noiser)? these usu have bigger blades and cools down the temp better. BTW, sorry Roland, for causing the confusion, I meant to say my fans are blowing at the water surface right above the moss wall.

Thanks Timebomb for enlightening us. It's always good to learn something new. :Smile:

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## anakin

oh, think there's a similar thread on AC vs DC fans in the Equipment section started by Vinz named &amp;quot;Cooling fans Qns&amp;quot;. can go check it out. :Wink:

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## tawauboy

> ----------------
> On 11/11/2002 11:21:17 PM 
> 
> somehow my christmas moss has not been doing very well,i keep my temp at about between 26 deg celcius to about 28,have about 60watts of lights in my 2ft and co2 is at 3bps,since the out break of bba on my xmas moss i been dosing my liquid fert(jbl ferropol) in reduced doses and spread out over the week and only after 4 hours after lights have come on,the fight against bba seems really extended and ardious,really discouraging,i've since stopped feeding my fishes fbw and feed them only pellets once a day in moderation.currently i have about 90+ malayans and 20 yamatos and 2 sae's and 3 ottos to combat algae...but still,my moss's growth is slow,and the algal growth is rampant...i've tried adding in faster growing plants and more water changes,trimming my plants and all but progress is extremely slow....i guess if u want to keep xmas moss,gotta take note of ure water params,once u get bba on ure moss it can be a real pain...and to me,its really discouraging,esp when the moss is the main piece of my tank...[] 
> ----------------


have you measure the no3, po4 and fe level in your tank?
it'll help in you combat against bba.

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## lorba

Yup anakin, i guess its a AC. I am only good in &amp;quot;void main void&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;AC DC&amp;quot; are aliens to me, haha.

Not much noise generated, unless, i think, you are reusing one found deep inside the store room?  :Smile:

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## scoobydoo

Anakin, think I'll try run my fans for 24/7. Now it's turned on only when the lights are on. 
Timebomb, love your moss wall  :Razz: . My wf has always wanted a moss wall, our one and only try ended in fishes caught behind the mesh and BBA outbreak. If I can manage to get my temp down to 27-28C, then I'll try the moss wall again  :Smile:

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## timebomb

since the out break of bba on my xmas moss i been dosing my liquid fert(jbl ferropol) in reduced doses 
----------------
If you have Black Brush Algae in your tanks, I would advise you to stop adding fertiliser. You will be surprised how little fertiliser the plants actually need. Juvenile SAEs will eat BBA but they will only eat the new growth. Adult SAEs will only eat fish food and Christmas moss. In other words, adult SAEs are useless as algae eaters.

One way to combat algae is to introduce a few bunches of stem plants into your tank. Fast growing plants like Hygrophilia difformis and Micranthenum micranthemoides are useful plants for keeping algae in check. The theory behind this is that fast growing plants will take up all the excess nutrients in the water, thereby preventing algae from growing.

When the algae has been completely eradicated, you can remove the fast growers. But do it gradually as sudden removals of too many plants can cause another algae outbreak.

Loh K L

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## timebomb

thanks timebomb for the info. But i remember reading from several sources that taiwan = triangluar = christmas moss, hmmm.. Was flipping thru Aqua Journal (vol 3 :Cool:  a moment ago and saw a page (which i missed) introducing 6 different type of mosses. 
---------------
You are right about the names. In the old days, the Christmas moss was actually known as Taiwan or Triangular Moss. The Christmas moss name became popular largely because of the internet. When James Lim, the publisher of the Aquajournal, asked me about the moss and I told him I like to call it Christmas moss, his magazine furthur help to popularise the name. You may find this unbelievable but back then, only a handful of hobbyists in Singapore has the Christmas moss in their tanks. And I was one of the first few to grow the moss reasonably well. James Lim is a close friend of mine. Back in those days, no other fish shop in Singapore has the moss other than Crowntol. Even Oriental Aquarium, one of the largest aquatic plant import/exporters in the world does not have this plant.

Back then too, it was okay to call it Taiwan, Triangular or Christmas as there was only one moss in the market besides Java. But when another moss from Taiwan made its appearance, there was a need to distinguish between the 2 mosses by calling one Christmas and the other Taiwan. 

Loh K L

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## timebomb

by the way time bomb, your christmas moss wall is beautiful...
----------------
Thank you very much for all the praises about my moss wall. I'm one person who believes in sharing information so I never lie or hide anything. So believe me when I say this:

It's really quite easy to grow the christmas moss. I rarely add fertiliser to my tanks and I never change the water parameters. In other words, the water in my tanks is the same as the water that comes from my taps. Many times in the last few years, many hobbyists have told me they can't grow the moss inspite of the fact that they have chillers and are constantly monitoring their water parameters.

Many hobbyists add bicarbonate of soda to their tanks to increase the Kh. I never do that. And I suspect that's the reason why my moss grows well. Besides low temperatures, soft water must be the other factor that affects the growth of the moss.

Loh K L

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## PeterGwee

timebomb...Singapore's tap water KH is at most 2 and mostly is zero....with no addition of baking soda or KH powder a pH crash is very likely. Don't you think so? [ :Knockout: ]

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## timebomb

timebomb...Singapore's tap water KH is at most 2 and mostly is zero....with no addition of baking soda or KH powder a pH crash is very likely. Don't you think so? 
----------------
Peter, I think the Kh of my water is zero but I'm not sure as I never check.

As for Ph crashing, I haven't seen anything like that happening to my tanks yet. I let my CO2 run non-stop 24 hours a day and I don't do anything to buffer the water. So far, touch wood, I haven't suffer any massive die-offs in my tanks yet. That's one reason I tell hobbyists to stop using solenoid valves. There is no need to cut off the CO2 when the lights are off and there's no need to use an air pump to aerate the water either.

Edward Yow, a close friend of mine who setups and maintains fish tanks professionally says he no longer uses solenoid valves in his setups. The fish shop owners will tell you otherwise, of course. The more products they sell, the more money they make.

Loh K L

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## timebomb

Just to share some information - Wright Huntley who hangs around the Aquatic Plant Digest and KillieTalk Digest and who's an expert on Killifish wrote this the other day. 

Loh K L
------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:56:24 -0800
From: Wright Huntley &amp;lt;[email protected]&amp;gt;
Subject: Re: Mythical &amp;quot;pH kill&amp;quot; (was message)


Fish mostly don't feel pH (above 4 and below 10) and most plants are 
pretty tolerant of a very wide range of pH, too. It is easy to measure and 
sometimes accompanies *other* chemical changes, so pH-change gets a very 
high level of mythology attached to it. The chemical illiteracy of a 
number of authors of fish books just adds to this problem.

Until you really know what actually changed and caused the die-off, so you 
can prevent a repeat, I suggest that you not ask folks to replace your 
losses. The pH shift may have accompanied the toxic blast, but it is 
unlikely there is any causal relationship between pH change and the die off.

That's just my US$0.02. [Free advice is, of course, worth every penny, 
too.  :Smile: ]

Wright

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## eprouve

> ----------------
> On 11/11/2002 4:35:23 PM 
> 
> yupz, they r the same. I think christmas moss thrive in low temp. If you can keep it in cold env, it would be best. But to achieve 26-28, i guess u don't need a chiller. 3 fans for 4ft i think would be enough, huh? Just that you will have to top up water frequently.
> ----------------



Just another silly question from me... I seem to have so many of them!!

If the evaporation rate is high, does this mean that topping up water is a replacement of the weekly water change routine?

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## PeterGwee

Nope..thats not changing water...you still need to remove water from the tank.

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## ryan

> ----------------
> Peter, I think the Kh of my water is zero but I'm not sure as I never check.
> 
> ----------------


how come you don't check?
i'd like to know how your moss grows so well.
where did you buy your moss from? 
chan at nature sells taiwan or christmas moss?
i think christmas is nicer so where can i get christmas moss and not taiwan moss from?
in your web site you showed how to do up a moss wall for a 2 feet tank, isn't the plastic mesh very flimsy and would be difficult to install? and with the suction pads behind the mesh making a gap between the moss wall the glass of the tank bigger, make the moss wall a death trap for fish and shrimps?

btw can i buy moss from you if u have any to harvest?[ :Grin: ]

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## budak

On the subject of water hardness, for most of us who keep planted tanks and the associated soft/blackwater fishes, I really think pH to be probably the least of the problems. Yes, I know acidity increases logarithmically as pH falls, but it's not &amp;quot;instant&amp;quot;, so to say, rather throughout the cause of the day, and I don't think natural water conditions are stagnant either. 

Anyway, sites like Dupla's which lists water conditions in places where crypts, barclayas etc originate (also home to gouramis, rasboras, barbs, bettas....) note pH levels as low as 4-5. I would actually think it's great for the fish (unless you are a Rift Lake cichlid), as low pH hinders ammonia toxicity as well as whacks lots of pathogens.

On another note, isn't the virtually mineral-free water that we get nearly FOC the prize for aquarists who want to spawn tough cookies like chocolate gouramis, cardinal tetras....? 

Get the basics right with good husbandry (regular water changes, low fish stock, disciplined feeding/fertilisation, and lots of background research) and KH shouldn't be a big concern.

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## timebomb

btw can i buy moss from you if u have any to harvest?[ :Grin: ] 
----------------
Someone in Singapore is selling the christmas moss on his website. He calls it &amp;quot;harvest on demand&amp;quot;. I have never collected money for my moss. If I did, maybe I would be a few hundred dollars richer. Over the last few years, I have given away several kilograms of the christmas moss to people all over the world. Many Singaporean hobbyists have also written me for the moss and I have always tried my best to give everyone some. But I'm afraid I can't give away the moss anymore. I have very little left as I took down my moss walls a few weeks ago.

The moss wall, as you have pointed out, can be a death trap for fishes. I took down my moss walls because the killifish I'm keeping now are very skittish fishes and quite a few of them died when they squeezed into the small space between the wall and the sides of the tank.

I've seen the christmas moss sold in Petmart. They also sell the other type of moss that NA has, the Taiwan Moss. Bioplast at Boon Keng Road also sells the Taiwan Moss. 

Honestly, I am puzzled why the christmas moss is not sold in more fish shops. It's been several years since I succeeded in growing the moss. Surely, the fish shops and farms would have succeeded by now too.

To be absolutely honest too, I have never paid any money for the christmas moss. Crowntol was the only fish shop to have this moss then and they won't sell them, not unless you buy the whole tank. I searched for the moss high and low in the old days and it took me several months before I got my hands on the first few fronds. They came with some Java Moss which I bought from Happy Aquarium. It was such a pleasant surprise then to find within the Java some Christmas moss fronds.

No one would have foresee then that the planted tank hobby would take off in such a big way. Where were you guys when I was looking for fellow hobbyists? Aquarium Station, Q Aquaplanter and the Aquajournal wouldn't have gone out of business if they knew that there will be so many of you now.

I never check my water parameters because I'm too lazy. I'm one of the laziest aquarists around. Although I own the test kits, I find checking things like Ph and Kh a big bother.  :Razz:  

Loh K L

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## ryan

yeah i know that guy sells it, but i don't want to buy it from him. err why? i shouldn't say so here.
i'm wondering if NAs moss is christmas moss or taiwan moss.
how about petmarts?
sigh... its so frustrating to find real christmas moss...

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## maverick

petmart does sell christmas moss at $5 per pack but it is not in very good shape due to the way that the moss is packed and laid out there. Anyway I find that moss is a very hardy plant and will not die off easily even in adverse conditions. Most of what is sold at petmart can be salvaged. I bought a pack from there to try out last month and they are thriving quite well with the new shoots coming out everywhere on the wall and my driftwood....

NA has christmas moss in his tank for sale as well but it will be slightly more expensive but way nicer... this will be for the more impatient people who want to see greenery faster.

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## peterkoh

Hi Folks,

A guy is selling it - Is there a LFS owner here among the forumers ?

My water temp is 29-30 deg. If all being equal, will temp be a problem ? I need something to cover my foot-long naked driftwood  :Wink:

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## ryan

> ----------------
> On 11/13/2002 10:39:24 AM 
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> A guy is selling it - Is there a LFS owner here among the forumers ?
> ----------------


no he just sells it from his tanks.
riccia and christmas moss.
but i don't like his prices.

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## anttz

Just bought 2 pack of x'mas moss fr petmart (initially wanted java moss but was out of stock on that day).

current setting is a 4ft tank with 2x36 watt lighting without co2 injection, base fertilzer and running on eheim cannister filter. temp is @ 27 - 29. Have noticed that the other plants are growing except for the x'mas moss. 

Still considering whether to add in a cooling fan. 


[ :Grin: ]

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## wahboy

hello everyone,

Are you all sure Petmart sells the Christmas moss=triangular moss???!!

from my experience, the emergent moss they sell isn't the type Loh owns. i grew it. it turned out to be a bit like java moss....like strings..... 

petmart's display tank have lots of the moss they sell. does not even look like Christmas moss or as green. 

i think the ones Bishan Pet Junction sells is then the real ones. last time they had a tank full of it. selling at $50 per 100g i think. 

hope this helps. 

Wahboy

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## timebomb

Still considering whether to add in a cooling fan. 
----------------
Consider no more. Without a fan, you will never succeed in growing the moss. You may keep them alive, that's all.

Without a fan, your temp will be in the region of about 30 C most of the time. I think your thermometer is off. With our kind of weather and the lights that we use, the temp in our tanks can go as high as 33 C. At that temp, the moss turns brown, then black and then bye bye.

Loh K L

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## timebomb

Are you all sure Petmart sells the Christmas moss=triangular moss???!!
----------------
Petmart sells both the Christmas and Taiwan Moss. The ones in the display tank (last time I was there about a month ago) is the Taiwan Moss. I've also seen the Christmas moss sold in the fish shop at Block 22 Havelock Road. They sell them for $10 for a mass about the size of an adult's palm.

Loh K L

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## ryan

> ----------------
> On 11/13/2002 10:34:48 PM 
> 
> Still considering whether to add in a cooling fan. 
> ----------------
> Consider no more. Without a fan, you will never succeed in growing the moss. You may keep them alive, that's all.
> 
> Without a fan, your temp will be in the region of about 30 C most of the time. I think your thermometer is off. With our kind of weather and the lights that we use, the temp in our tanks can go as high as 33 C. At that temp, the moss turns brown, then black and then bye bye.
> 
> ...


but he is using 2x36watts lights for 4 feet tank... it won't grow...
 :Razz:

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## ryan

> ----------------
> On 11/13/2002 8:41:43 PM 
> 
> hello everyone,
> 
> Are you all sure Petmart sells the Christmas moss=triangular moss???!!
> 
> from my experience, the emergent moss they sell isn't the type Loh owns. i grew it. it turned out to be a bit like java moss....like strings..... 
> 
> ...


i wonder if bishan still sells them, he like has converted to luo hans...

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## hwchoy

> ----------------
> Someone also gave me a bit of moss he collected from a nature reserve in Singapore. He said he grows them together with the Christmas moss in his tanks and they look exactly the same.


alamak, timebomb, old already, got your details tong-balek!

I gave you the local moss (I just call it BK or Bukit Timah moss) which was collected by subzero in the bk timah area (but outside the reserve itself lah).

When grown in cold water side-by-side with christmas moss (bought from Gen-X) they are very similar but is different in that BK moss is light green (compared against xmas moss) and the BK moss has a softer more supple texture.

In case any one is wondering why I am groping my moss for texture, I have to take them out (tied to two separate steel mesh) for cleaning.  :Razz:  

so how's your BK moss doing?

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## jacian

I just bought some moss from Petmart 2 weeks ago. The moss has settled well in my tank. In this early stage, it is hard to tell exactly what moss is it. So far, it does not seem to be the xmas moss but more like the new taiwan moss.

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## timebomb

alamak, timebomb, old already, got your details tong-balek!
----------------
Hey, sorry I got the details mixed up, Choy. You know when one is old, the brain cells start dying. 

The BK moss you gave me is doing fine. I suspect it's Willow moss.

Loh K L

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## wahboy

hello all, 

Loh you said petmart sells christmas and taiwan moss. from what i see all the moss are emergents. so how do you differentiate the two?
i can never seem to find any difference between the emergents. hope you can enlighten me. TIA. 

Wahboy[: :Smile: ]

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## kubrich

sorry for borrowing thread but was wondering what it means if the shade of green on my xmas moss is getting lighter and how can i get it to be a darker more lush shade of green?

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## cheeboonyong

Is it true that SAEs will eat the moss? I've had hits and misses growing moss. My home tank is 30 degrees and with 2 SAEs, doesn't appear to be much growth at all. And this is after 5-6 months of waiting. It's not turning brown and dying but neither is it growing at all. Just some green shots that resemble bare green sticks with no &amp;quot;leaves&amp;quot;. I suspect it's both the temp and the SAEs at fault here. Chan from NA advised me that it may take even up to 6 months for the moss to adapt and grow. I intend to get a fan to lower the temp and try it out. 

On the other hand, my office tank, about 24-25 degrees, is growing the moss fantastically well. No SAEs either. Grew at a fantastic rate just after 2 weeks.

Can anyone confirm that low temp is a must for moss? And SAEs WILL eat moss, thereby retarding its growth? For that matter, does malayan or cherry shrimps eat moss as well? (at least I don't see the shrimps nibbling at the moss yet.)

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