# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Beginner: planted nano tank with eventual shrimp

## schwip

Hi all!

I actually ended up in this forum because I was researching betta fish keeping... realised I have no space to house them and then was really attracted to the greenery of a planted tank.

Bought a 30 x 18 x 24 cm (12.9l) gUSH tank.. its empty and full of whispered promises on a shelf in my room. A bit of excess silicon arnd the edges but it seems well joined otherwise (should I be concerned)?

Really really new to this and was told monte carlos are the most forgiving plant. I like their look as well and plan to have a carpet over a stepped hardscape a la East Ocean's 30cm tank vid: https://youtu.be/dmPT4KQ4OuA. 

Maybe add a ceramic thingy thingy for livestock to hide in at some point. Very scared of using wood.

I notice they use ANS Planta Soil. Questions:
-Is there a big diff between that and ADA or Borneowild?
-Is ANS Planta soil fine for shrimps?
-Should I expect any parasites down the line from any of the soils?
Asking abt ANS cos Seaview sells the smaller packs and I live closer to them.

Next is I've been scouring the forums and the tech side of things is killing me. Seems to get more confusing the more I read!

Filters:
Hang on or cannister??? For such a small set up I feel like a hang on back would be really obstrusive (wanna keep as clean a look as possible). 
The set I was recommended was a Totto w compartments (too huge for my liking and can't hide it). 
I saw this as well
 would something like this be sufficient.. or something like this with the filter replaced with biomedia? Or should I just go the cannister route?

CO2:
My tank is so small I am wondering if this is necessary in the long run. Also don't want to gas livestock once I add them. Was thinking of the disposable cannisters hooked to a bell jar (gUSH is really pretty) for the initial cycling and growth of carpet... and subsequently to stop co2 when I intro the shrimps. 

On that vein.. I read conflicting thoughts on liquid carbon products like Excel Flourish and their effect on the shrimp. 

Thanks for reading through this, and any advice appreciated!

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## SGDiscus

> Hi all!
> 
> I actually ended up in this forum because I was researching betta fish keeping... realised I have no space to house them and then was really attracted to the greenery of a planted tank.
> 
> Bought a 30 x 18 x 24 cm (12.9l) gUSH tank.. its empty and full of whispered promises on a shelf in my room. A bit of excess silicon arnd the edges but it seems well joined otherwise (should I be concerned)?
> 
> Really really new to this and was told monte carlos are the most forgiving plant. I like their look as well and plan to have a carpet over a stepped hardscape a la East Ocean's 30cm tank vid: https://youtu.be/dmPT4KQ4OuA. 
> 
> Maybe add a ceramic thingy thingy for livestock to hide in at some point. Very scared of using wood.
> ...


hi schwip, 

Welcome to the world of planted tanks! Here are some thoughts you may wish to consider as you start your journey:

1. Excess silicon around your tank is ok. Nothing to be concerned at the moment. If you are really worried, just filled it up with water and let it sit for about 15 to 20min. If it is not well-make, it will leak almost immediately. This will save you some pain before you start the actual planting.

2. As for monte carlos, while it is true that it is forgiving but only once it has adapted to the tank conditions. It will require a fair bit of maintenance (ie pruning) once it starts growing... the pruning and cleaning the bits of monte carlos that had been cut is the more irritating work for me. Anyway, I have not used it since I prefer spending less time on maintenance.

3. Using wood for live stock to hide in is very common. It is more a personal taste whether you prefer ceramic or wood.

4. I don't have experience with borneowild with shrimps. I have great success on using ADA soil with cherry shrimps. Sorry, can't help you for ANS planta soil with shrimps.

5. Parasites (worms) occurs if you overfeed. All soils contains bacteria and not all bacteria are bad. In fact, your tank will cycle faster with soil such as ADA/Borneo etc.

6. The downside of using tank in a small tank is that overtime small pocket of ammonia will build up if the layer of soil is too thick (like more than 2 inches) and you don't have plants (with roots) in the soil that can aerate the soil and minimize the problem. So when you disturb the soil to rescape, you will cause a sudden ammonia spike. You can reduce this problem by doing regular siphoning of the soil during water changes. Just remember to do regular filter changes after each siphon as your filter wool will clogged up.

7. As for the filter that you are displaying... depends on how many fishes you put in there... if it is just shrimps.. more than enough provided you do regular maintenance of the filter wool (maybe once a month). Personally, I prefer to 'over-filter' - ie getting a bigger size filter.

8. CO2. I have dosed CO2 (pressurised) and Excel Flourish in my tank with amano shrimps (giant-sized type that you get at C32 :Cool: . But my tank is a bit bigger than yours and the amano shrimps are hardier than cherry. The key is not to over-dose. Just dose slightly less than what is prescribed, your shrimp should be ok. The other way is to dilute the Excel flourish first with water before adding into your tank. In terms of value for money, getting those permanent 1-litre co2 tank is the way to go... BUT at this stage, I suggest you stick to just Excel Flourish or disposable CO2 until you are sure about your passion for keeping planted tank with shrimps. The good thing about using Flourish is that you don't need a timer on your lighting when you are gassing your co2. Unfortunately, I have not used disposable co2 before so not sure if you need a normal co2 regulator with solenoid to control it.

9. Another big factor is the water temperature. For shrimps and plants, an ideal water temperature would be around 24 to 25 degrees celsius. But 28 degree cel is doable for cherry shrimps... but probably not for CRS.

10. Lighting. No need to spend too much on lighting. Too much lighting (ie too bright) with long duration (ie more than 8 hours) will definite grow algae very well.  :Wink:  

11. Do consider adding 1 oto. It helps alot by eating up the brown slime algae that is typical in new tank. But unfortunately, otos are delicate creatures that die easily if they are not acclimatize properly before adding into the tank.

Good luck!

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## Urban Aquaria

> Filters:
> Hang on or cannister??? For such a small set up I feel like a hang on back would be really obstrusive (wanna keep as clean a look as possible). 
> The set I was recommended was a Totto w compartments (too huge for my liking and can't hide it). 
> I saw this as well
> 
> would something like this be sufficient.. or something like this with the filter replaced with biomedia? Or should I just go the cannister route?


A hang-on filter like the one in your photo should be sufficient for a small 30cm tank... but if you are concerned about aesthetics and want to maintain a clean minimalist look (and also have better filtration), you could consider a small canister filter.

Not sure if you have seen my previous threads, but i posted up one on my 13 liter nano tank setup a few years ago. The tank dimensions are exactly the same as yours. It uses an Eden 501 canister filter matched with a pair of gUSH 9/12 glass lily pipes (have to use 9/12 so that it stays in scale, 12/16 glass pipes will look too large for the small tank). The canister filter is hidden behind some file folders.

Here is the link for reference: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...itre-Nano-Tank!

A better look at what the canister filter looks like and how its connected beside the tank: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...403#post716403

Hopefully that can give you an idea on how a minimalist nano tank equipment setup could look like.

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## schwip

> A hang-on filter like the one in your photo should be sufficient for a small 30cm tank... but if you are concerned about aesthetics and want to maintain a clean minimalist look (and also have better filtration), you could consider a small canister filter.
> 
> Not sure if you have seen my previous threads, but i posted up one on my 13 liter nano tank setup a few years ago. The tank dimensions are exactly the same as yours. It uses an Eden 501 canister filter matched with a pair of gUSH 9/12 glass lily pipes (have to use 9/12 so that it stays in scale, 12/16 glass pipes will look too large for the small tank). The canister filter is hidden behind some file folders.
> 
> Here is the link for reference: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...itre-Nano-Tank!
> 
> A better look at what the canister filter looks like and how its connected beside the tank: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...403#post716403
> 
> Hopefully that can give you an idea on how a minimalist nano tank equipment setup could look like.


Dude yes!!! It was your blog post on the same tank that inspired me. I didnt manage to locate the threat though, so thanks!! I will look through it.

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## schwip

Thread*

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## schwip

> hi schwip, 
> 
> Welcome to the world of planted tanks! Here are some thoughts you may wish to consider as you start your journey:
> 
> 1. Excess silicon around your tank is ok. Nothing to be concerned at the moment. If you are really worried, just filled it up with water and let it sit for about 15 to 20min. If it is not well-make, it will leak almost immediately. This will save you some pain before you start the actual planting.
> 
> 2. As for monte carlos, while it is true that it is forgiving but only once it has adapted to the tank conditions. It will require a fair bit of maintenance (ie pruning) once it starts growing... the pruning and cleaning the bits of monte carlos that had been cut is the more irritating work for me. Anyway, I have not used it since I prefer spending less time on maintenance.
> 
> 3. Using wood for live stock to hide in is very common. It is more a personal taste whether you prefer ceramic or wood.
> ...


Thank youu!

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## schwip

> hi schwip, 
> 
> Welcome to the world of planted tanks! Here are some thoughts you may wish to consider as you start your journey:
> 
> 1. Excess silicon around your tank is ok. Nothing to be concerned at the moment. If you are really worried, just filled it up with water and let it sit for about 15 to 20min. If it is not well-make, it will leak almost immediately. This will save you some pain before you start the actual planting.
> 
> 2. As for monte carlos, while it is true that it is forgiving but only once it has adapted to the tank conditions. It will require a fair bit of maintenance (ie pruning) once it starts growing... the pruning and cleaning the bits of monte carlos that had been cut is the more irritating work for me. Anyway, I have not used it since I prefer spending less time on maintenance.
> 
> 3. Using wood for live stock to hide in is very common. It is more a personal taste whether you prefer ceramic or wood.
> ...


Thank you!

Regarding the wood.. is there a way to limit the growth of the white fungus that tends to come with it? Or any recommendations for places which sell wood which might be less prone to disintergration? That's my main concern when it comes to using it.

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## schwip

@UrbanAquaria
Re your cannister, does it fit within a mag holder? And is there a special reason your tubing was crossed in the picture? XD. My shelf is a small Ivar shelf that is about 50x30. Also.. do cannisters have to be same level as the tank or does it not matter?

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## SGDiscus

> Thank you!
> 
> Regarding the wood.. is there a way to limit the growth of the white fungus that tends to come with it? Or any recommendations for places which sell wood which might be less prone to disintergration? That's my main concern when it comes to using it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


You can soak the wood in boiling water for about 30min. Alternatively, if the pieces are too big to boil over your stove (like mine), you can put them in a big container and pour boiling water to cover the whole piece. Do not put boiling water into your fish tank as you risk ruining the silicon seals!

This method will not guarantee that you kill all the fungi spores on the wood but it will help minimize. There is also the possibility of underwater fungi spores that comes from the water of aquarium that you buy your fishes/plants/shrimps from. I have only dealt with fungi on my drift wood once.... which was a long time ago. I remember scrubbing it and then leaving it alone. I think the shrimps/fishes did the rest.

In my current set-up, I recently had toadstool growing on one part of my drift wood that was emerged out of water after 3 months in my tank. It just sprouted overnight. I left it alone as it looked kinda cool and then wilted a few days later.

I think you can find drift woods in most of the established aquariums. One small tip - bring a small measuring tape so that you are sure that they can fit into your small tank. I would also look for drift wood that feels really dense and heavy... at least better chance that it will sink right away when you put it into your tank. Otherwise you will have to go through the trouble of putting a weight/rock on it to let it soak up the water.

If you buy driftwood from the aquariums, you will less likely find driftwood that will disintegrate.

Some people prefers rocks in their tanks in place of drift wood for another kind of look. You can google phrases like 'hardscape tanks' etc. I would also soak my rocks using boiling water as well.

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## schwip

@SGDiscus
I see... actually a while back I tried and failed to keep cherries in a tiny betta box type set up. 

Had placed cholla wood (I think) from secret shrimp society in there and it spawned the white fungus till I think it actually affected the shrimp. Water changes couldnt save the tank and yeh..RIP shrimps ): It also kept disintegrating. I didnt boil it as thought an initial soak would be sufficient. Bad call!

Will definitely remember this if I consider putting some wood in, and to boiling the rocks too.


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## Urban Aquaria

> Regarding the wood.. is there a way to limit the growth of the white fungus that tends to come with it? Or any recommendations for places which sell wood which might be less prone to disintergration? That's my main concern when it comes to using it.


White mold or fungus that grow on wood are usually due to the rotting organic nutrient rich material on the wood surface providing food for the fungus/mold to consume and grow. Its the same effect like if there is uneaten food in an aquarium and white fuzzy fungus/mold starts to grow on it. The fungus/mold is naturally present in all aquariums, so they may still appear even if you boil the wood (it still a good idea to boil the wood before usage to kill other pest/critters though).

Its normal to see that effect on newly soaked wood. Usually the fungus/mold will gradually disappear on its own, or shrimps will clear it up for you over time. So far i have not had any issues with shrimps dying due to fungus/mold on wood, on the contrary its actually a rich source of food for the shrimps. 

Nowadays there are even "snowflake" shrimp food made of soybean shells that are designed promote the growth of mycelia fungus (the same type of fungus on wood) for shrimps to eat.

As for wood that doesn't disintegrate as quickly, go for those branchy hard wood varieties (ie. root-like bog wood, manzanita branches), rather than the blocky soft wood types (ie. those that tend to flake off bits when you handle them, like malayan driftwood or cholla wood). The branchy hard wood varieties stay in shape for very long time and don't flake of bits.





> @UrbanAquaria
> Re your cannister, does it fit within a mag holder? And is there a special reason your tubing was crossed in the picture? XD. My shelf is a small Ivar shelf that is about 50x30. Also.. do cannisters have to be same level as the tank or does it not matter?


Yeah, the Eden 501 canister filter can fit into a holder, in fact there is an optional accessory pack sold separately that includes plastic hooks to mount the filter on the tank glass. I've also seen people use stainless steel mesh baskets to hold it too. That being said, some people are scared the weight of the canister filter hooking on the aquarium glass may crack or damage the glass, so most people tend to position it on a solid surface next to or under the tank.

No particular reason for the crossing of hoses in the photo, its just how i like to position the canister filter in relation to the tank, the hoses cross because i prefer to view the outflow pipe at the front side of the tank. With hoses you can position it any way you want and they can be connected accordingly.  :Smile: 

Canister filters can be placed beside or under the tank. But do note that if you place a canister filter beside a tank, you have to make sure that the tank's water level is still higher than that of the canister filter, this is to prevent potential back siphoning of water when the filter is off which could result in air gap in the impeller system.

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## schwip

> Its normal to see that effect on newly soaked wood. Usually the fungus/mold will gradually disappear on its own, or shrimps will clear it up for you over time. So far i have not had any issues with shrimps dying due to fungus/mold on wood, on the contrary its actually a rich source of food for the shrimps. 
> [...]
> 
> As for wood that doesn't disintegrate as quickly, go for those branchy hard wood varieties (ie. root-like bog wood, manzanita branches), rather than the blocky soft wood types (ie. those that tend to flake off bits when you handle them, like malayan driftwood or cholla wood). The branchy hard wood varieties stay in shape for very long time and don't flake of bits.


Ah thanks, will look out for those kinds of wood. When it happened in my tank the shrimp were totally gorging on it but it really polluted the water and got on them... and frankly I think it smotheres
D them to death  . My mistake to start with such a small box in the first place. But this advice makes me more open to the possibility of wood.





> Yeah, the Eden 501 canister filter can fit into a holder, in fact there is an optional accessory pack sold separately that includes plastic hooks to mount the filter on the tank glass. I've also seen people use stainless steel mesh baskets to hold it too...


Ah ok! Btw was there a reason you got the ANS set for intake and outflow? Are the gUSH ones too big for a 9/12?

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## Urban Aquaria

> I see... actually a while back I tried and failed to keep cherries in a tiny betta box type set up. 
> 
> Had placed cholla wood (I think) from secret shrimp society in there and it spawned the white fungus till I think it actually affected the shrimp. Water changes couldnt save the tank and yeh..RIP shrimps ): It also kept disintegrating. I didnt boil it as thought an initial soak would be sufficient. Bad call!
> 
> Will definitely remember this if I consider putting some wood in, and to boiling the rocks too.


The cherry shrimps dying were probably more due to the small water volume and the fluctuating parameters from water changes in the small tank, rather than the cholla wood. 

Cholla wood is indeed a very soft wood which tends to rot away very quickly (can sometimes be over the span of months, instead of years). The rotting process is also further accelerated when you boil it. The plus side is the rotting material generates alot of food for micro-fauna that consume and grow on it, which in turn feed the shrimps. Hence shrimp keepers like to use them in their tanks as shelters and food source. The minus side is you will eventually see "skeletons" of cholla wood in the tank after a while and have to replace them more frequently.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Ah ok! Btw was there a reason you got the ANS set for intake and outflow? Are the gUSH ones too big for a 9/12?


Its mainly because i couldn't find the gUSH 9/12 version of the glass pipes at that time (i think it was out of stock or something), so i got the ANS 9/12 version instead.

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## CzTio

hi! Been lurking around. Not sure if my tank would be of any help. its running on a cheap dolphin hob filter, aquazonic clipon light for easy flipping up of light for maintenance, small fan and co2 with solenoid regulator. 

Tank looks like crap cos i don't maintain much. But there are 8 ember tetras and a dozen cherry shrimps inside and 2 snails.

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## schwip

> The cherry shrimps dying were probably more due to the small water volume and the fluctuating parameters from water changes in the small tank, rather than the cholla wood.


Yuhh ): Hopefully with this 13l I will get it right. I'm going slow and researching slow. Keep visiting various aquariums just to get an idea of how the equipment looks.

Btw where to find Eden filters? Seaview doesnt seem to stock right now. They have Eheim aquacompact 40 but I realised the pump is part of the top portion of the system? Sibei dua looking.

Also is this the right plc to ask or shud I start another thread: noticed you used up-aqua Z series lights but that was a few yrs ago. At that point how many bulbs was that? 

They have an ET series now with about 10 bulbs (5.5w) and I'm wondering if that would be better for me since I don't think I would plan co2 injection (but would use liquid carbon). Z series has like 15 bulbs or something now... price diff at Seaview is about $18 between them with Y series in the middle. Of course on a purely aesthetics basis Z series looks sleeker hahhahah. But I don't want to overheat my tank or end up promoting too much algae that the shrimps can't clear.

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## schwip

> hi! Been lurking around. Not sure if my tank would be of any help. its running on a cheap dolphin hob filter, aquazonic clipon light for easy flipping up of light for maintenance, small fan and co2 with solenoid regulator. 
> 
> Tank looks like crap cos i don't maintain much. But there are 8 ember tetras and a dozen cherry shrimps inside and 2 snails.


How is the light working for you? Clip on means at the back of the tank and not across? Does your fan result in a lot of top up required? Your filter looks nicely camoflauged the flora but I don't plan on many tall plants myself... hrmmm...

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## CzTio

> How is the light working for you? Clip on means at the back of the tank and not across? Does your fan result in a lot of top up required? Your filter looks nicely camoflauged the flora but I don't plan on many tall plants myself... hrmmm...


Just see the equipment ok? Ignore the plants as i said i did minimal maintainance on it :Grin: .

Lights is clip on back, but still running length wise of tank. just need to flip the lights up when i want to do anything e.g. popup, water change etc...

Yes, with the fan, need to topup the water daily. Max is 2 days and the water level become very low.

i was using a shiruba xb303 canister before this hob. Flow was too strong out of the box. So i just changed to this cheap HOF for ease of maintainance and gentler flow.

Sorry for the dirty fan pic. :Embarassed:

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## schwip

> Just see the equipment ok? Ignore the plants as i said i did minimal maintainance on it.
> 
> Lights is clip on back, but still running length wise of tank. just need to flip the lights up when i want to do anything e.g. popup, water change etc...
> 
> Yes, with the fan, need to topup the water daily. Max is 2 days and the water level become very low.
> 
> i was using a shiruba xb303 canister before this hob. Flow was too strong out of the box. So i just changed to this cheap HOF for ease of maintainance and gentler flow.
> 
> Sorry for the dirty fan pic.


Oooh thks for visual! Did you try using tap with the shiruba to control flow or was it still too heavy? I saw those at Seaview... was thinking of it as alternative to Eden if I really can't find. Was it noisy?

Btw with fan are you able to maintain consistent temp?

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## CzTio

> Oooh thks for visual! Did you try using tap with the shiruba to control flow or was it still too heavy? I saw those at Seaview... was thinking of it as alternative to Eden if I really can't find. Was it noisy?
> 
> Btw with fan are you able to maintain consistent temp?


With the shiruba canister, need to downsize the hose to be able to use the ANS nano inlet and outlet. Because i had too little space to play with, the short hose would be too stiff to be able to position the lily pipe and inlet. I've bought the tap and believe should be able to turn down the flow, but got lazy and bought the $8 dolphin filter and used it instead.

About the fan, temp will depend on the weather. e.g. now its 27c on my thermometer. On hot days, will still hit 29-30c. Wouldn't trust the fan if you want to keep expensive shrimps. Cherries are doing great in the tank and breeding.

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## schwip

> With the shiruba canister, need to downsize the hose to be able to use the ANS nano inlet and outlet. Because i had too little space to play with, the short hose would be too stiff to be able to position the lily pipe and inlet. I've bought the tap and believe should be able to turn down the flow, but got lazy and bought the $8 dolphin filter and used it instead.
> 
> About the fan, temp will depend on the weather. e.g. now its 27c on my thermometer. On hot days, will still hit 29-30c. Wouldn't trust the fan if you want to keep expensive shrimps. Cherries are doing great in the tank and breeding.


Got it! Any reason why initially you went for xb303 and not xb301?

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## CzTio

> Got it! Any reason why initially you went for xb303 and not xb301?


I actually wanted to look for the xb305 but couldn't find it. hahaha

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## schwip

> I actually wanted to look for the xb305 but couldn't find it. hahaha


Hahahahha okok. Looks like I need to make a trip to C328...

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## schwip

Update: Aunty says "Eden 501 how many yrs no stock liao" 

Whats available is the Ista all in one (360l/h) and Eheim 150 classic. Feel like Eheim might have too high a flow rate? Any thoughts? Admittedly Eheim parts would be easier to find and fit I think...

Both use 12/16mm pipeing.

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## CzTio

I just read back and noticed you also have limited space to play with? where do you intend to put the canister filter? The ehiem classic would definitely be an overkill for your tank.

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## schwip

> I just read back and noticed you also have limited space to play with? where do you intend to put the canister filter? The ehiem classic would definitely be an overkill for your tank.


Shelf the tank is sitting on is abt 110cm off the ground, gap between it and wall is about 3-4cm. Looking at most cannister dimensions the smallest of them only fits (barely) on same shelf if I shove the tank all the way to the right, so I'm thinking of placing it on the lower shelf. Probably going to lower the tank shelf to lessen the gap and so I have easier access hahaha. Ivar pretty sturdy I dun think 15kg is an issue load wise.

Undecided if I want tubing down the side or the back of the tank at this point.

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## CzTio

Ah.......definitely not beside. I've done it with the xb303 and it look hideous! From what I see, try a little hof 1st? The bottom shelve look like a great place for another tank with a different scape! :Grin: 

Also you stay nearer to seaview? Why come.all the way to the west when seaview have a bigger range of things?

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## schwip

> Ah.......definitely not beside. I've done it with the xb303 and it look hideous! From what I see, try a little hof 1st? The bottom shelve look like a great place for another tank with a different scape!
> 
> Also you stay nearer to seaview? Why come.all the way to the west when seaview have a bigger range of things?


I went to Seaview earlier to check their stock oso but they didnt have Eden 501 either. So just decided to check out C328 also. I def live way closer to Seaview. They have Shirubas and a range of wee HOFs. Might just take up that option but aiyah... I still find the hanging thing very in the way, yknow? Will card up/blacken the back of the tank if I go that route.

And hahahah I haven't even scaped one yet don't make me think of another. 

I have an alternative shelf that's much longer and would actually make light control easier because it's off to the side instead of opposite my window like this wall is BUuUUUUt I think the tank would look even smaller than it is now within that shelf. Sorry think-typing aloud.

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## CzTio

> I went to Seaview earlier to check their stock oso but they didnt have Eden 501 either. So just decided to check out C328 also. I def live way closer to Seaview. They have Shirubas and a range of wee HOFs. Might just take up that option but aiyah... I still find the hanging thing very in the way, yknow? Will card up/blacken the back of the tank if I go that route.
> 
> And hahahah I haven't even scaped one yet don't make me think of another. 
> 
> I have an alternative shelf that's much longer and would actually make light control easier because it's off to the side instead of opposite my window like this wall is BUuUUUUt I think the tank would look even smaller than it is now within that shelf. Sorry think-typing aloud.


That's why I put my hof by the side. Will only see the inlet at the corner, no outlet to worry about. Simple, cheap and easy to maintain. Can upgrade to cannister anytime if you are not happy. Will just set u back $8? Hahaha

And with so little space to play with, I also suggest clip on lights like mine. Had the up aqua pro z lights and the lights dropped into the tank a few times cos didn't have space to reposition the light when doing maintenance, or simply wanting to do something in the tank.

If you really want to go cannister, can try the shiruba xb303. Put at bottom shelve, reduce hose size and hopefully the flow would not be too strong after that. If still too strong, then add a tap? I complained that it was too strong because I places the cannister right beside the tank with all the original fittings.

Hope this little tips help

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## schwip

> If you really want to go cannister, can try the shiruba xb303. Put at bottom shelve, reduce hose size and hopefully the flow would not be too strong after that. If still too strong, then add a tap? I complained that it was too strong because I places the cannister right beside the tank with all the original fittings.
> 
> Hope this little tips help


It does! Thank you about the lights as well, I guess if going for up aqua Y series might be better for me in that case? Anyway here would be the alternative placement. It would mean I could hide equipment to the right in the short shelves initially pulled out. But it will also not make the tank a room centrepiece  .

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## schwip

Oh that said, would xb301 be fine? It looks compact enough, and also using 12/16mm pipes. 

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## CzTio

> It does! Thank you about the lights as well, I guess if going for up aqua Y series might be better for me in that case? Anyway here would be the alternative placement. It would mean I could hide equipment to the right in the short shelves initially pulled out. But it will also not make the tank a room centrepiece  .


For this bigger rack, where do you want to put the cannister? If you put it higher than the tank, you will have problem priming the cannister. Anyway I think the right hand side would be a PIA spot if you wanna remove and clean the cannister in the future.

If you are looking at the xb301, might as well see if there is a similar model to Eden 501 that uses the 9/12mm tubing then you don't need to do the downsize of tube and stuff. Think i've seen the boyu or some other brand, should be the same thing just rebranded china product.

----------


## schwip

> For this bigger rack, where do you want to put the cannister? If you put it higher than the tank, you will have problem priming the cannister. Anyway I think the right hand side would be a PIA spot if you wanna remove and clean the cannister in the future.
> 
> If you are looking at the xb301, might as well see if there is a similar model to Eden 501 that uses the 9/12mm tubing then you don't need to do the downsize of tube and stuff. Think i've seen the boyu or some other brand, should be the same thing just rebranded china product.


Yuh would look at lowering the shelf on the right and the main shelf to avoid the little cross beam that holds the shelf stands. I have small hands so it might be easier for me? Idk.

Ou I have seen boyus! It's the same make? Anyway probably heading to Seaview later to make my decision hahah.

----------


## CzTio

> Yuh would look at lowering the shelf on the right and the main shelf to avoid the little cross beam that holds the shelf stands. I have small hands so it might be easier for me? Idk.
> 
> Ou I have seen boyus! It's the same make? Anyway probably heading to Seaview later to make my decision hahah.


Hahaha.....don't take my words for the boyu filter yah? I've not used it before.

Yah, head down to seaview and make your decision there. You can research all you want, end up the product that you want is out of stock. Like how I ended up with the xb303.  :Laughing:

----------


## schwip

> Hahaha.....don't take my words for the boyu filter yah? I've not used it before.
> 
> Yah, head down to seaview and make your decision there. You can research all you want, end up the product that you want is out of stock. Like how I ended up with the xb303.


Thanks man. Will prob update later

----------


## schwip

Update, I got the Ista 360lph. Their box pic and Boyu's xb303 is EXACTLY THE SAME (the position of filter media also the same?!). The hose is quite soft but wow huge diameter. Their adapters (also ista) is for 12mm and 16mm. They mean internal diameters when they say that right? I asked one of the staff and he said my hose would go on the 12mm portion :/

So I would need to find a 12mm to 9mm adapter if I want to go for smaller intake and outtake pipes, I am assuming?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

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## CzTio

> Update, I got the Ista 360lph. Their box pic and Boyu's xb303 is EXACTLY THE SAME (the position of filter media also the same?!). The hose is quite soft but wow huge diameter. Their adapters (also ista) is for 12mm and 16mm. They mean internal diameters when they say that right? I asked one of the staff and he said my hose would go on the 12mm portion :/
> 
> So I would need to find a 12mm to 9mm adapter if I want to go for smaller intake and outtake pipes, I am assuming?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Yes ,yes and yes! Those 13mm lily pipe sets won't fit our tanks.

----------


## schwip

> Yes ,yes and yes! Those 13mm lily pipe sets won't fit our tanks.


Aiight then!

Also oops I mean Shiruba xb303* not Boyu ahahah. I saw one Boyu that looks like the Eden 501 and Shiruba 301, but some other old forum threads mentioned they weren't that great a model to use.

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## CzTio

> Aiight then!
> 
> Also oops I mean Shiruba xb303* not Boyu ahahah. I saw one Boyu that looks like the Eden 501 and Shiruba 301, but some other old forum threads mentioned they weren't that great a model to use.


Hahaha, good buy! Update your setting up of the tank!

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## schwip

> Hahaha, good buy! Update your setting up of the tank!


Slowly slowly... need to clear the appropriate space in my room first haahah. 

On a sidenote, what are the dis/advantages of double taps... Where along the piping should I install the taps: closer to the intake and outtake pipes? 

And since I am going to reduce the pipe, is it better to reduce closer to the filter canister? 

Generally is there a rule of thumb how much hose I should leave before cutting to prevent it from popping out from pressure or anything?

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Btw where to find Eden filters? Seaview doesnt seem to stock right now. They have Eheim aquacompact 40 but I realised the pump is part of the top portion of the system? Sibei dua looking.


Yeah, the Eden brand filters don't seem to be stocked anymore at most places nowadays. Instead the other newer brand ones like ISTA, Shiruba and Azoo (all using the similar type design) are usually what you will find at most LFS.

The ISTA 360 is suitable for your tank size, just install a single tap on the outflow to reduce the flow rate if necessary. You can also use reducers so that it's 12/16 hoses can step down to 9/12 to fit the 9mm lily pipes, if you plant to use them. The reduction of hose size will also help reduce overall flow rate too.





> Also is this the right plc to ask or shud I start another thread: noticed you used up-aqua Z series lights but that was a few yrs ago. At that point how many bulbs was that? 
> 
> They have an ET series now with about 10 bulbs (5.5w) and I'm wondering if that would be better for me since I don't think I would plan co2 injection (but would use liquid carbon). Z series has like 15 bulbs or something now... price diff at Seaview is about $18 between them with Y series in the middle. Of course on a purely aesthetics basis Z series looks sleeker hahhahah. But I don't want to overheat my tank or end up promoting too much algae that the shrimps can't clear.


In the photo, i was using the first generation Up Aqua Z-Series Pro LED lights... the 30cm version was running on 90 x 0.06W LEDs (works out to just 5+ watts in total). Actually after all these years, i'm still using the old generation models on my current planted tanks and they are still working well.  :Smile: 

Anyways, the new generation models are now using more powerful 0.5W LEDs, the difference between the various models is just how many LEDs they have on the unit. The ET-Series should be more than sufficient for your tank dimensions and usage, based on individual LED wattage, its already more powerful than the old generation Z-Series LED lights that i'm using.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> On a sidenote, what are the dis/advantages of double taps... Where along the piping should I install the taps: closer to the intake and outtake pipes? 
> 
> And since I am going to reduce the pipe, is it better to reduce closer to the filter canister? 
> 
> Generally is there a rule of thumb how much hose I should leave before cutting to prevent it from popping out from pressure or anything?


Double taps are useful when you need to clean your canister filter and don't want to carry the entire lot of hoses and pipes along with the canister to clean. You can shut the taps and disconnect the hoses without spillage. Each part can then be removed to clean individually.

The only thing is they cost extra to buy separately (for those filters that don't come with inbuilt taps), and you have to allocate some space along the hose line to install them (the double taps are long, which can be abit tricky if your hose distances are short).

For the installation of the taps, usually most people will install them closer to the canister side, mainly so that they can better hide the taps away from view. You can also install them closer to the outflow/intake pipes too, just that they tend to become more visible when viewing the tank.

You can install the reducers anywhere along the hose line, their exact placement aren't so crucial.

For a secure water-tight fit, a 1cm or more connection join between the hoses to the pipes should usually be sufficient. If in doubt, cut the hose abit longer to allow for extra flexibility and positioning, try to avoid situations where the hose puts stress on the connections when moved.

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## schwip

@Urban Aquaria 

Yes double taps do look v long! Ok so.. what is the difference between these two reducers:
 

Does the bulkier looking one have an option to simply disconnect the two parts without removing the hose from the adapter portion? Or isit simply a more secure adapter...

And for the single tap, does it mean if I wish to dismantle it will mean removing the hoses from the adapter on either end, whereas for double tap the tap itself will be disconnected into two halves?

Tks about the lighting! Is even lighting through the length of the tank a must must? Because Up Aqua has this small light clip-on as well which I am also considering.

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## CzTio

You can actually try using the xb303 without double taps 1st. Mine was quite easy to remove the hose from the cannister. 

That light that you choose, will take up a lor of vertical soace if you flip the thing up for maintainance.

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## schwip

Ok so this is what I currently have. Still fiddling with overall layout before I get to any nitty gritty scaping. I figure I would rather arrange my tech the way I want before working the scape instead of trying to fit it around the scape aesthetically and frustrating myself.

External cable will be to the left so filter placed there for proximity also. Plan to go get the reducers, 9/12mm hose and gUSH pipes over the weekend and see see how how. Will eventually find a way to hide the filter from view. I assume placing the canister below will also reduce flow?

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## schwip

Hi all!

Back with some updates. Managed to get one monte carlo pot n surprised by uh.. how much is actually in that pot.

Planted 'em and then... poured some soil over to weigh some of the roots down because they seem to keep getting dislodged with the granula soil (ANS Planta as ADA was out of stock. It is super non-cloudy tho! Proof as I had to keep going into the water to push down the plants). 

It's okay if leaves are covered so long as roots are in... right? I think in some areas there might be abt 0.5cm to 1cm of soil over the leaves. Eventually the plant will push thru the soil?

-Lights are Up Aqua ET series. Only a bit meh tt the plug requires adapter. Very bright otherwise.
-Using Gush nano co2 bulb, and Borneo Wild indicator fluid.
-Ista Filter is almost soundless. Quite powerful as well! There's this very light piece of soil that is currently circling my tank.





Now to wait 3 weeks  

Also I got a piece of wood but it isn't sinking. I am boiling it now... but should I wait for the carpet to take before attempting to place it in? I am still terrified of the white fungus but I do want to place cherries inside eventually... and the wood makes for better shelter than rocks.

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## NanoScaper

> Hi all!
> 
> Back with some updates. Managed to get one monte carlo pot n surprised by uh.. how much is actually in that pot.
> 
> Planted 'em and then... poured some soil over to weigh some of the roots down because they seem to keep getting dislodged with the granula soil (ANS Planta as ADA was out of stock. It is super non-cloudy tho! Proof as I had to keep going into the water to push down the plants). 
> 
> It's okay if leaves are covered so long as roots are in... right? I think in some areas there might be abt 0.5cm to 1cm of soil over the leaves. Eventually the plant will push thru the soil?
> 
> -Lights are Up Aqua ET series. Only a bit meh tt the plug requires adapter. Very bright otherwise.
> ...


Your set up looks so good with that compact external filter and pipes. :drool 2: 

I have a current project with a similar sized tank and I'm now thinking if I should change my filter too.

Damn it! Must... resist... temptation... :Exasperated: 

By the way, your filter is similar to the Shiruba XB-303 or AZOO External Power Filter, right?





I'm just wondering what kind of outlet pipes it originally came with and how it looks like.

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## schwip

@Rezdwan

Yes bro! Similar to Shiruba XB-303. In fact I wouldn't be surprised it is all from the same factory. Some of the boxes the images are the same... down to the placement of biofilters xD

Outlet pipes are the rubber hoses, bit dark coloured. It also comes with HOB kit


They say it can't pump more than a height of 2 feet but I don't know if mine does because of the smaller hosing later on (borneo wild). The set up as a whole looks like this right now, and you can see the original hosing near the bottom.

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## schwip

Here's another shot of the original hosing adapted to the narrower BW tubes (the glass adapters are so expensive...)

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## NanoScaper

> @Rezdwan
> 
> Yes bro! Similar to Shiruba XB-303. In fact I wouldn't be surprised it is all from the same factory. Some of the boxes the images are the same... down to the placement of biofilters xD
> 
> Outlet pipes are the rubber hoses, bit dark coloured. It also comes with HOB kit
> 
> 
> They say it can't pump more than a height of 2 feet but I don't know if mine does because of the smaller hosing later on (borneo wild). The set up as a whole looks like this right now, and you can see the original hosing near the bottom.


Thanks for taking the time to take and post these photos. Very much appreciated! :Well done: 

Yeah, I guess you can think of it as house brand filters. Mass produced by one factory and companies like ISTA, AZOO and Shiruba orders them and just slapped their logos on it. Doesn't really matter as long as it makes the product cheaper and it works, right?

If I were to get any one of these, I'm thinking of putting it just beside the tank itself (because there is enough space for it) but that will break the aesthetic that I'm going for in my set up. Does it work well for you after putting the filter way down at the lowest level of your rack?

By the way, the BorneoWild Switch Glass you got for connecting your hoses looks damn good too. I assume you bought it from Green Chapter?

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## schwip

@rezdwan

It works too well almost. I have to keep the water line relatively close to the output or else it will result in too much surface agitation. Flow is good.. I can see particles circling down to bed and to the far side of the tank.

I might install taps but still undecided. Don't have much room to manoeveur with my set up unless i place the filter on the floor. 

BW goods from GC, yup (:

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## NanoScaper

> 


Forgot to ask you, schwip.

Why is the water level below the lily pipe and what is the C0₂ checker for?

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## schwip

> Forgot to ask you, schwip.
> 
> Why is the water level below the lily pipe and what is the C0₂ checker for?


Hi rezdwan, water level is below the lily pipe so that there is some surface agitation for oxygen... cos eventually wanna intro shrimps in there. It helps a bit with temperature also I think! 

Co2 checker is also for the same reason eventually (since there would still be dissolved Co2 from organisms' expiration). Also pretty? Hahaha. I use liquid carbon though, which should not affect the checker's readings.

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## NanoScaper

> Hi rezdwan, water level is below the lily pipe so that there is some surface agitation for oxygen... cos eventually wanna intro shrimps in there. It helps a bit with temperature also I think! 
> 
> Co2 checker is also for the same reason eventually (since there would still be dissolved Co2 from organisms' expiration). Also pretty? Hahaha. I use liquid carbon though, which should not affect the checker's readings.


Alright, schwip.

I understand what you're trying to achieve now that you have explained it to me.

All the best and keep the updates coming. I'll be following this thread.

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## schwip

Cheers man! I'm following yours too. Best to ya!

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## bosacheng

looking good !

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## schwip

> looking good !


Thanks!

One week in and the older leaves are melting but there are a lot of young leaves growing in their place. Which I take as progress hahah.

In some places the roots seem to be pushing above the substrate or are becoming slowly exposed though... does that mean I didn't plant deep enough? There was one such plantlet where I poked at it a bit and it became uprooted, but I realised it was already sending other roots down into the substrate. I replanted it somewhere else in the tank. For the exposed roots, will they just shrivel off at some point?

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## limz_777

think the placement of the canister might be too low , surprised it can pump up the water

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## schwip

> think the placement of the canister might be too low , surprised it can pump up the water


Surprised too but yes water flow is quite alright ahaha!

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## schwip

Progress! Top pic was on day 2, bottom pic is about day 12.

On the 2nd day the water went milky for a bit but cleared up shortly after. Was that the bacterial bloom? And is it meant to go away so soon? My ammonia levels are still high. Should I try to intro one of those bio balls?

The plants seem to be okay though, so far.

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## Danny Archer

Yes, that should be a bacteria bloom as the beneficial bacteria is still growing if I am not wrong, thanks for sharing your progress!

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## schwip

> Yes, that should be a bacteria bloom as the beneficial bacteria is still growing if I am not wrong, thanks for sharing your progress!


Thanks! I'm just a bit worried they all died off because it cleared up by day 4 or 5 and my ammonia levels are off the charts.. about 5-6ppm. I did a 50% water change and it is still about 4ppm right now. Weirdly the plants don't seem burned by it.. yet. 

If I use say Azoo bio ball max... and introduce it for a day or so, would that release enough BB to speed up the cycle further?

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## NanoScaper

> Thanks! I'm just a bit worried they all died off because it cleared up by day 4 or 5 and my ammonia levels are off the charts.. about 5-6ppm. I did a 50% water change and it is still about 4ppm right now. Weirdly the plants don't seem burned by it.. yet. 
> 
> If I use say Azoo bio ball max... and introduce it for a day or so, would that release enough BB to speed up the cycle further?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Hey, schwip.

I don't think you should worry about it too much.

Just like what Danny Archer mentioned, what you saw was probably bacterial bloom and it was supposed to go away after a while.

Coincidentally, I just saw a blog post that mentioned this recently and you might want to take a look at it. Cloudy water in aquarium: causes & solutions

Since you have started the cycling process naturally without any bottled bacteria, I think it's best you just continue without making any changes to your setup.

Also read somewhere that naturally occuring bacteria are more stable (than bottled one) but it takes more time to cultivate them in a new tank.

Hope this helps.

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## Danny Archer

Best to let your tank cycle and let the bb grow, shouldn't take long.

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## schwip

Alright guys thanks for the encouragement! I will just be patient ahhaha.

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## schwip

I realise that my previous progress update stated 12 days. That was wrong... it was 9 days at that point  

Here is the latest, at 2days, 9 days and 15 days. The growth is coming along nicely, however ammonia levels are still at 4ppm.

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## imtai

hey bro. jus want to share my updates on the cycling process of my tank.

I'm pretty envious how u manage to add shrimp in in such a short period.



this was my water para before the 3rd water change =*( 

still have about 0.25 ppm of ammonia.. I do hope that things gets better later when I test the water parameters!
*fingers crossed* 

cheers and have a good weekend !

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## schwip

Bro I think you meant to post this in redwan's thread. Nevertheless... thanks for sharing? What were your ammonia levels like at the start of the cycle, could I know?

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## imtai

> Bro I think you meant to post this in redwan's thread. Nevertheless... thanks for sharing? What were your ammonia levels like at the start of the cycle, could I know?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


oh goodness I got confused with the thread hahah 

hmm first week was really bad. I still have the image in my phone. one sec 

first week before wc


second week before wc 


it's really a slow and torturing process =*( 

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## schwip

Ooh! Did you add nitrates during the cycle? My nitrates are still low.. 

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## imtai

> Ooh! Did you add nitrates during the cycle? My nitrates are still low.. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


I din add any nitrates! I'm not sure y the no3 is so high. =*(

but kind shrimpers from AQ what'sapp group suspected it was an issue with my active substrate leeching out the ammonia and no3. 

I will be keeping neo.. but I went ahead to get an active substrate instead of a inert one.. as I like the way the soil look in the tank.. thus resulting in this much problems. 

soil used was from H.E.L.P advance shrimp soil. 

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## schwip

Cool thanks! I am using ANS Planta soil myself. But I plant to grow a carpet so the active substrate should benefit me in the long run hahahah.

If the ammonia still doesn't drop I am considering throwing some floaters in soon.

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## schwip

Day 18:

Finally relieved to see the cycling happening!
Ammonia : ~3-4ppm
Nitrites: ~2ppm
Nitrates: ~5-10ppm

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## imtai

> Day 18:
> 
> Finally relieved to see the cycling happening!
> Ammonia : ~3-4ppm
> Nitrites: ~2ppm
> Nitrates: ~5-10ppm


yay! congratz to you bro!

I realised you were cycling your tank without any added powder or liquid bacteria! 

great perseverance and patience man. your plant should carpet real fast with the amount of nitrates in the water now!! =)

I had to add floaters as my Moss ain't taking up much no3 =.= but also means to me that my bacteria is working hard in the nitrogen cycle !

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## schwip

Thks! And yes I have not added any additional bacteria formulas. 

I will monitor the parameters till there is sufficient carpet before deciding if I want to add floaters...since the more plants there are the more nitrogen uptake there will be hahaha.

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## NanoScaper

> Thks! And yes I have not added any additional bacteria formulas. 
> 
> I will monitor the parameters till there is sufficient carpet before deciding if I want to add floaters...since the more plants there are the more nitrogen uptake there will be hahaha.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Hey, schwip.

You have much better patience than me. :Angel: 

If I'm not wrong, it's been three weeks since you set up this tank.

Have you encountered any algae yet and how did you manage it?

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## schwip

@rezdwan

Hey man you are right, I am just approaching three weeks (tomorrow will be day 21). 

I have not encountered green algae like the kind you have at the sides of your glass... if what you show in your pics is indeed algae. 

I have had a few strands forming on dying/dead leaves and once on a piece of soil. I just remove them before they spread further.

I am also not following a strict light cycle... as I read in another thread that changing up when to turn on the lights tends to discourage algae growth. I am dosing both P and K so I am a bit wary of this. My tank does not sit in direct sunlight but my curtains are thin.

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## schwip

Comparison of Day 2 and Day 21.

Water smells very earthy, am not sure if that is indicative of anything. Parameters before a 25% water change as follows:
Ammonia : ~3ppm
Nitrites : ~ 2ppm
Nitrates : ~10ppm

I have been soaking a piece of wood I plan to introduce once the carpet is established. I boiled it for about 45 mins before starting the soak. In the first week it started growing some of that white slime fungus but after washing it off it has yet to come back. Still leeching tannins and some sort of sap I expect (film gathers on the water surface)

It's quite a big piece of wood and will be the centrepiece once introduced. It will probably block out a lot of light as well in the carpet so... letting that grow first.

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## NanoScaper

> @rezdwan
> 
> Hey man you are right, I am just approaching three weeks (tomorrow will be day 21). 
> 
> I have not encountered green algae like the kind you have at the sides of your glass... if what you show in your pics is indeed algae. 
> 
> I have had a few strands forming on dying/dead leaves and once on a piece of soil. I just remove them before they spread further.
> 
> I am also not following a strict light cycle... as I read in another thread that changing up when to turn on the lights tends to discourage algae growth. I am dosing both P and K so I am a bit wary of this. My tank does not sit in direct sunlight but my curtains are thin.
> ...


Hey, schwip.

You are right.

Those green stuff at the sides of my tank are algae but what's left of it after each weekly maintenance. I clean them up as much as I can before taking those photos. It isn't a big issue at the moment.

Can you elaborate on what you meant by "not following a strict light cycle" as mentioned above? Do you mean you will switch on the lights at 9am one day, maybe 8am the next and 7am after that?

The wood that you're preparing for this tank looks good, by the way.

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## schwip

With regards to light cycle: some days I go for 8 hours, some days 12. Some days I start at 8am... some days at 1pm... some days maybe through the night. I also dose Excel when I start the lights for the day, to encourage the plants to take up the nitrogen in photosynthesis versus other organisms.

I think because you are using soil and your tank isn't heavily planted... the algae might be the ones using up the nitrogen in the water. Are you lowering your lights duration?

I've actually got some white fungus/bacteria/algae (online threads generally label it harmless and "will go away eventually) that is on some of my substrate. It is similar to the white slime I described on the wood. I am choosing not to worry too much and hope it doesn't take over before it is safe to introduce the shrimps. 

I also have some growth occuring in my tubing, but it is not compromising flow at the moment so I am not too concerned. It looks more like bacterial slime at the mo.

Thanks about the wood! Terrified that I will have slime outbreak once it is introduced but what is life without risk.

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## imtai

hey Schwip! nice drift wood as the centre piece! 

I used a timer switch socket to set my led timing to 3 hr morning.. 3 hr night.. so I can view them before I go work and after I'm back from work =) 

had some algae growth on my glass, but I should be leaving it alone first hoping that it can be a food source for the shrimps!

when would be u doing your next water parameter test?=D




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## schwip

@imtai thks!
Yes I need to get a timer soon! I go for 4 hrs minimum since I have more plants and they need some time to really get into the photosynthesizing. 

I think if you don't have a lot of plants... the photoperiod will just keep benefiting the algae.

I am also considering getting the up aqua z series lights but positioning it higher above the tank, where my shelf frame has a little cross beam. Undecided though. It would be about 45 cm from the base of the tank at that level.

As for water parameters... definitely another test by day 28 (at the end of photoperiod). May get itchy hands and do an earlier one of just ammonia though hahaha. 

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## schwip

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...d.php?t=103977

Throwing this for own reference here. Based on what Urban said before, the current ET series is similar to the Z series then. So Z series now should be... even more powerful xD.

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## NanoScaper

> With regards to light cycle: some days I go for 8 hours, some days 12. Some days I start at 8am... some days at 1pm... some days maybe through the night. I also dose Excel when I start the lights for the day, to encourage the plants to take up the nitrogen in photosynthesis versus other organisms.
> 
> I think because you are using soil and your tank isn't heavily planted... the algae might be the ones using up the nitrogen in the water. Are you lowering your lights duration?
> 
> I've actually got some white fungus/bacteria/algae (online threads generally label it harmless and "will go away eventually) that is on some of my substrate. It is similar to the white slime I described on the wood. I am choosing not to worry too much and hope it doesn't take over before it is safe to introduce the shrimps. 
> 
> I also have some growth occuring in my tubing, but it is not compromising flow at the moment so I am not too concerned. It looks more like bacterial slime at the mo.
> 
> Thanks about the wood! Terrified that I will have slime outbreak once it is introduced but what is life without risk.
> ...


Hey, schwip.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, an irregular photoperiod will cause more algae outbreak because you're throwing your plants off their rhythm, so called.

That's why everyone suggests and uses a timer for their lighting to make sure there are proper timing and constant duration for the plants to receive light.

Can you point me to any discussions, links and etc. that says the contrary? Would love to do more research on this subject to find a long term solution.

Thanks in advance.

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## schwip

Sorry man, I didn't save the link. I am pretty sure it was one of the threads here. But the logic was that plants have more stored nutrients so they would be okay the most part waiting for light availibility, similar to a blackout.

Shrimp do need a regular light cycle though, or they will get stressed otherwise.

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## schwip

Day 27 and these are my parameters
Ammonia: ~0.25-0.5ppm
Nitrites: ~0.25ppm
Nitrates: ~5ppm

I don't know if this is the result of the 40% water change or the sudden uprooting of plants. Hahah you can see the carnage in the back there.

I also added some stalks of _myrophyllum mattogrossense_ because I heard they carpet if blasted with light and do better in shade. The portion I planted them in will be shaded by the driftwood eventually. The pot I got them in wasn't so great and I hope I didnt bury too much brown which will rot. That said, they are laying down and sprouting new shoots at the top bits so... there is hope yet!

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## NanoScaper

> With regards to light cycle: some days I go for 8 hours, some days 12. Some days I start at 8am... some days at 1pm... some days maybe through the night. I also dose Excel when I start the lights for the day, to encourage the plants to take up the nitrogen in photosynthesis versus other organisms.
> 
> I think because you are using soil and your tank isn't heavily planted... the algae might be the ones using up the nitrogen in the water. Are you lowering your lights duration?
> 
> I've actually got some white fungus/bacteria/algae (online threads generally label it harmless and "will go away eventually) that is on some of my substrate. It is similar to the white slime I described on the wood. I am choosing not to worry too much and hope it doesn't take over before it is safe to introduce the shrimps. 
> 
> I also have some growth occuring in my tubing, but it is not compromising flow at the moment so I am not too concerned. It looks more like bacterial slime at the mo.
> 
> Thanks about the wood! Terrified that I will have slime outbreak once it is introduced but what is life without risk.
> ...


Currently, my photoperiod is set for six hours only.

Not sure if it's the floating plants that I added recently, but it seems those algae that I used to see on my tank surface is going away.

Could also be the freshwater limpets clearing them up for me. Their population kind of suddenly exploded. :8=): 




> Sorry man, I didn't save the link. I am pretty sure it was one of the threads here. But the logic was that plants have more stored nutrients so they would be okay the most part waiting for light availibility, similar to a blackout.
> 
> Shrimp do need a regular light cycle though, or they will get stressed otherwise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


No problem, schwip.

If I find anything, I'll share it with you here.

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## schwip

@redzwan

Oooh limpets! Anyway I think it will be hard to compare our photoperiod times since we have different plant stock and amount. Glad to hear your algae is clearing up though!

Now I need to figure out how to clean my piping without causing a flood ahahahahha.

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## schwip

It has been a few days after I messed with my tank. I'm glad to say I am seeing signs of initial melt from those that were planted from the new pot... which is to be expected I guess, but of the plants which were uprooted, they seem to be doing fine and growing.

My myrophyllum is really sprouting fast. As shown in the picture, the darker green tops are new growth, whereas the yellowish stem below was the state it was planted in from the pot. This gives me hope!

I also now have algae issues! Maybe it's due to the falling ammonia but constant presence of nitrites. Or the fact that I accidentally kept the light on one time past 12 hours. 

I tried to shift my filter up one shelf level, but I just discovered that the inlet hose got bent and is probably restricting flow. Placed it below again, dosed excel and plan to not turn on the lights for 24 hrs. 

Light set up was changed. Using up aqua z series at abt 33cm height from the base of the tank. It means that I have more room for my hands, and also I can install the glass cover if I wish, which leaves me the option of Amanos when my tank cycles! I know they won't breed but I don't really need them to. Just need them to be algae crew xD

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## Urban Aquaria

> Now I need to figure out how to clean my piping without causing a flood ahahahahha.


Get a pair of double taps and install them on your filter hoses, they will make hose and pipe maintenance much easier.





> I also now have algae issues! Maybe it's due to the falling ammonia but constant presence of nitrites. Or the fact that I accidentally kept the light on one time past 12 hours.


Do invest in a good plug timer to automate your light schedule, a consistent light photo-period helps maintain steady plant growth.

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## schwip

> Get a pair of double taps and install them on your filter hoses, they will make hose and pipe maintenance much easier.
> 
> Do invest in a good plug timer to automate your light schedule, a consistent light photo-period helps maintain steady plant growth.


I have the taps.. I just never got round to installing. I SHALL DO OVER CNY.

Yes I really need the timer! But now that the problem has surfaced, do I cut back my photoperiod to 6 hrs till its resolved or...?

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## NanoScaper

> @redzwan
> 
> Oooh limpets! Anyway I think it will be hard to compare our photoperiod times since we have different plant stock and amount. Glad to hear your algae is clearing up though!
> 
> Now I need to figure out how to clean my piping without causing a flood ahahahahha.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Ah, the pros and cons of using a canister filter. Just a tip. You may want to place your canister filter in a shallow container in case it leaks over time.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Yes I really need the timer! But now that the problem has surfaced, do I cut back my photoperiod to 6 hrs till its resolved or...?


Well, newly setup tanks will always have some algae growth at the beginning, its normal. Just manually remove and clear away any algae that you see as best as you can, as part of regular tank maintenance. As the tank stabilises and plants start growing in, they will gradually out compete the algae.

Later when the tank is cycled and you add in algae crew like shrimps, they will also help to clear the algae too.

During the initial stage when plants are first added, they spend more time establishing roots, hence less visible and slower growth at the beginning.

You can stick with a 6 hour photoperiod until the plants establish and root in further, then progressively increase it as the plants grow out over time.

Btw, its best to only introduce larger shrimps like yamatos only after the carpet is fully established, as they will tend to pull out plants that are not rooted securely. 

Yamato shrimps do tend to look abit oversized in a 1ft tank though... alternatively you could ultilize smaller shrimps like cherry shrimps instead, they do the same algae eating jobs too (just stock more to match the efficiency) but with much less tendency to pull out the carpet plants.

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## schwip

@Urban thanks I will do. About the Yamatos, well in that case I might just do with the Cherries. I saw your post about them looking like strange giant aliens in your nano tanks hahaha.

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## schwip

Shifted the cannister to the shelf just below the tank again, and installed 1 set of taps. Learnt some physics along the way. 1 set is sufficient for me to have relative ease taking out both inlet and outlet hoses without spillage. Installed the taps on the inlet hose since it is more cumbersome to deal with the Inlet pipe. Due to the weight of the taps and the angle of the hose, it bends near the cannister. Currently propping the hose up with my ET lights clamps. 



Anyway, Day 30. Parameters are currently:
Ammonia: ~0-0.1ppm
Nitrites: ~0 ppm
Nitrates: ~0-1 ppm

Not sure how normal this is, considering I have been making changes to the set up as well? I heard myrophyllum really takes up nutrients though, so it could be that?



Worried at some stalks which seem to be growing tall with narrowed leaves, but the bulk of growth seems fine. If such growth becomes widespread I will have to go back to the ET series at closer range (ironic!) till I find a better solution.

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## schwip

To clarify, the stalks I am worried about are monte carlo ones.

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## schwip

Quick update:

_Myrophyllum mattogrossense_ grows really fast. Here is a comparison of Day 2 and Day 4 of planting the said:



Under my current lighting, it is also laying down and carpeting slightly! Discovered this when I decided to trim the the healthy tops and replant those. Most had roots growing out the "sides" of the main stem and were halfway into the soil. 

I would rate this plant high maintenance if you want to keep its height low. But it is easy to trim the stems, and also easier to replant than monte carlo stems for some reason.

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## schwip

> Anyway, Day 30. Parameters are currently:
> Ammonia: ~0-0.1ppm
> Nitrites: ~0 ppm
> Nitrates: ~0-1 ppm
> 
> Not sure how normal this is, considering I have been making changes to the set up as well? I heard myrophyllum really takes up nutrients though, so it could be that?


Info here was probably wrong. It was a case of did not shake the nitrate indicator solution enough. Retested and the parameters make much more sense:

Ammonia: ~0ppm
Nitrites: ~0ppm
Nitrates: 20-30ppm



Okay. Now to prepare the wood again. This is the 2nd time I have boiled it and plan to boil a 3rd time. The past few weeks before this 2nd boil the tannin leech was only visible by 3rd or 4th day.

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## schwip

Day 38

Parameters have kept the same since the last update, and I do believe my tank is fully cycled. On Day 36 I introduced the wood and added 10 "Dark Blue" Shrimp from Seaview. Based on pics on the internet they look like Blue Dreams neocaridinas. 

Not sure if they are bred from Seaview's chocolate shrimp because I have spotted some blue diamonds amongst that stock in my previous failures. Definitely don't look like tiger shrimp to me.



Bad batch though! Bits of vorticella on some of them. Gave the sera costapur treatment and will wait it out. Other than that they seem to be grazing happily and I have sighted no casualities thus far. One has also moulted.

Algae is growing on the far left side of the tank, since it probably has the least flow due to the drift wood placement. The shrimps seem happy to graze there though so I am fine with it.

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## Urban Aquaria

Looks like Scutariella japonica parasites on the rostrum of your shrimps... best and fastest treatment is salt dip to get rid of those parasites. Better to eliminate those parasites now than have remnants stay in the tank and keep re-infecting the shrimps.

More info on those parasites for reference: http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/...hwater-shrimp/

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## verk47

The shrimps are nice! Do they require a chiller? 

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## schwip

> Looks like Scutariella japonica parasites on the rostrum of your shrimps... best and fastest treatment is salt dip to get rid of those parasites. Better to eliminate those parasites now than have remnants stay in the tank and keep re-infecting the shrimps.
> 
> More info on those parasites for reference: http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/...hwater-shrimp/


Ah dang, so its not vorticella? For salt bath... would the following treatment described in this thread do fine?

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=95448

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## schwip

> The shrimps are nice! Do they require a chiller? 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


Hey thks! My temp is abt 27 to 26C constant now and they seem fine... I do suppose ideal conditions would involve a chiller.

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## schwip

Did the salt dip as in reef2rainforest's guide and also put a few drops of paraguard into the main tank. White stuff (the worms?) seem to have all dropped off from the shrimp! They went back to grazing as soon as they were put back in the main tank.

Did discover 1 death yesterday though when fishing out the shrimp for the salt dip.

Will update after a few days to see if infection returns.

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## NanoScaper

> Did the salt dip as in reef2rainforest's guide and also put a few drops of paraguard into the main tank. White stuff (the worms?) seem to have all dropped off from the shrimp! They went back to grazing as soon as they were put back in the main tank.
> 
> Did discover 1 death yesterday though when fishing out the shrimp for the salt dip.
> 
> Will update after a few days to see if infection returns.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Hey, schwip.

Sorry to hear that your shrimps are infected with the Scutariella japonica parasites.

Anymore parasites after the salt bath and adding Seachem ParaGuard to the tank?

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## schwip

Hi, no more parasites spotted but another shrimp death. Not sure if age or stress.

Algae is blooming on my surfaces... including the wood. Likely a combinatiom of a few things: shrimp bio load and my lowering of excel dose among them. Irritating that they are on my tank walls but i quite like the look on the wood!

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## schwip

Just to show myriophyllum growth speed comparing 9th Feb and 18th Feb. Monte carlo is also spreading but at a slower pace. Since the introduction of the wood (more shade), newer leaves also tend to be smaller and darker.

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## NanoScaper

> Hi, no more parasites spotted but another shrimp death. Not sure if age or stress.
> 
> Algae is blooming on my surfaces... including the wood. Likely a combinatiom of a few things: shrimp bio load and my lowering of excel dose among them. Irritating that they are on my tank walls but i quite like the look on the wood!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Hey, schwip.

Nice to know that your shrimps have recovered.

Let's hope your shrimps will thrive in your tank and multiply (and then I can buy some from you)! :Very Happy:

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## schwip

Eh bad news man, they keep dying but really slowly. I am chalking it up to old age because they really are quite big
I'm left with 2 females and 1 male. 

My friend passed me two tigers and two red noses to help with this hair algae problem that has cropped up. They are quite literally clearing paths as I type this and they haven't stopped grazing after intro to the tank.

My myriophyllum is still growing in its weedish fashion but monte carloe seems to be stunted by the algae a bit. Their growth has paused, hahahah.

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## schwip

Hi all some updates!

Everything except the plants and one blue shrimp died when I went on an overseas trip for 2 weeks and I didn't really direct my family to help with maintenance.

This blue hulk shrimp has survived numerous hardships for the past 2 months and counting...hahaha.

Algae covered EVERYTHING. I took out the wood as a result: it was affecting water flow and it made managing the tank difficult. Used a hand siphon dropper thingy to do water changes and suck up as much algae as I could off the plants, and cut the direct light for a few days.

I bought 5 red noses online but I didnt really check at point of collection and when I opened the packet I realised two were already milky white. Sure enough, they died the next day. I've got 3 left who look healthy. Those managed to clear the remaining algae off my plants for the most part...so I have hope! Hahaha. 

Oh yeah, replaced the wood with a rock and little shrimp hidey tubes (which have yet to be utilised). 

Did an ammonia (0) and nitrates (10-15) test and the results look fine.

If the current four continue to survive I may consider getting more blues or cherries to join them. Or maybe even more red noses. We shall see!

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## NanoScaper

> Hi all some updates!
> 
> Everything except the plants and one blue shrimp died when I went on an overseas trip for 2 weeks and I didn't really direct my family to help with maintenance.
> 
> This blue hulk shrimp has survived numerous hardships for the past 2 months and counting...hahaha.
> 
> Algae covered EVERYTHING. I took out the wood as a result: it was affecting water flow and it made managing the tank difficult. Used a hand siphon dropper thingy to do water changes and suck up as much algae as I could off the plants, and cut the direct light for a few days.
> 
> I bought 5 red noses online but I didnt really check at point of collection and when I opened the packet I realised two were already milky white. Sure enough, they died the next day. I've got 3 left who look healthy. Those managed to clear the remaining algae off my plants for the most part...so I have hope! Hahaha. 
> ...


Hey, schwip

What is that nice rock you've got? It makes your tank look bigger somehow.

Nice to see an update from you.

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## schwip

Hi I think it's an unzan stone? It was the smallest size I could find... not cheap tho!

Yes it is much smaller than the wood was, so the tank seems much sparser now.

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## NanoScaper

> Hi I think it's an unzan stone? It was the smallest size I could find... not cheap tho!
> 
> Yes it is much smaller than the wood was, so the tank seems much sparser now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Hey, thank for the info.

I think it would look great if you could grow green algae or moss on it.

Then again, that's how I imagine it would look best. :Very Happy:

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