# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  LED Lighting

## Fireball

Hi,

I am not sure whether I should post my question here or in the planted tank forum. 

Anyway, here it goes:

I am looking to set up a planted fish tank again with all the new nice looking LED lights coming up recently. I have question about life span of such lighting. 

In the past, I used to have PL lights and I changed them every six months. So similarly, do I need to replace the LED bulbs frequently or can they last forever (until the bulb blows).

Hope that some experts on LED light can advise me.

Thank you.

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## ladygaga

LED may not last as long as it advertised.

There already have report of dimming of LED TV which they claimed 20 years of lifespan. I wonder since LED TV (Oh, it's LED backlight LCD TV) comes out just years, how do they know it will last decades? Did they check it out at 2030 on a time machine?

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## thebaldingaquarist

Hi,
I am not an expert. But here is what i know from reading online articles on led lighting. I have been thinking of DIY-ing a moonlight led for my tank as well.

1. LEDs in theory should last longer than normal tubes. this is assuming that the led is not over-driven. lower MCD leds should not be overdriven to produce more mcd.
2. for planted tanks, selection of LED is impt. need to match the light frequency of natural light. may need to mix LEDs for this as well.
3. calculation of Wattage Per gallon does not apply. This i am not very sure why.

Hope it helps.

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## hellomyfriend

so estimate around how many years can a led light last?

before the need to change into another

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## Shadow

Depend on the brand actually those branded LED expected life time can be as long as 50000 hours. How the come up with number? Normally they will do accelerate life test, basically put into the chamber and do temperature cycle hold-cold-hold-cold... as well as humidity cycle. From they they tabulate the lifespan. It may not be accurate but should be close.

The cheap china brand on the other hand lifespan depend on your luck  :Laughing: .

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## Fireball

> Hi,
> I am not an expert. But here is what i know from reading online articles on led lighting. I have been thinking of DIY-ing a moonlight led for my tank as well.
> 
> 1. LEDs in theory should last longer than normal tubes. this is assuming that the led is not over-driven. lower MCD leds should not be overdriven to produce more mcd.
> 2. for planted tanks, selection of LED is impt. need to match the light frequency of natural light. may need to mix LEDs for this as well.
> 3. calculation of Wattage Per gallon does not apply. This i am not very sure why.
> 
> Hope it helps.


where did you read all these from? pls provide links.

i like LED lighting because they are cooler than PL. 

Btw, how do you check that the light frequency matches natural lights? How about those LED lights used for saltwater tanks? Do they match?

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## Fireball

> Depend on the brand actually those branded LED expected life time can be as long as 50000 hours. How the come up with number? Normally they will do accelerate life test, basically put into the chamber and do temperature cycle hold-cold-hold-cold... as well as humidity cycle. From they they tabulate the lifespan. It may not be accurate but should be close.
> 
> The cheap china brand on the other hand lifespan depend on your luck .


but do LED lights lose the intensity like PL light such that need to change ever so frequently?

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## Tucker

Hi Fireball,

If you are looking at doing LED lighting for a planted tank you need to pick the lighting unit carefully as most of the generic brands do not support plant growth. Most of the good LED lighting units are designed for high end marine tanks at the moment and I do not believe you will easily find one for planted aquariums. So while they may look nice they may not be practical in the long run.

If you have the know-how and also the money you are probably better off making your own. At the moment the best recommendations seem to be the high end 3W LED's but these are about $5-10 each and you will need to buy several depending on how large your tank is. Compared to a normal tube the LED' s will last a lot longer but like any piece of electronic gadget they are still subject to failure, so while some people may have no issues that may not be the case for you.

My normal tubes generally last for a year or so, if you are having issues with them blowing all the time it could be that you maybe have a faulty electrical circuit as 6 months seems a little short? I plug all of my items into a surge protector board just in case  :Smile:

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## Fireball

> Hi Fireball,
> 
> If you are looking at doing LED lighting for a planted tank you need to pick the lighting unit carefully as most of the generic brands do not support plant growth. Most of the good LED lighting units are designed for high end marine tanks at the moment and I do not believe you will easily find one for planted aquariums. So while they may look nice they may not be practical in the long run.
> 
> If you have the know-how and also the money you are probably better off making your own. At the moment the best recommendations seem to be the high end 3W LED's but these are about $5-10 each and you will need to buy several depending on how large your tank is. Compared to a normal tube the LED' s will last a lot longer but like any piece of electronic gadget they are still subject to failure, so while some people may have no issues that may not be the case for you.
> 
> My normal tubes generally last for a year or so, if you are having issues with them blowing all the time it could be that you maybe have a faulty electrical circuit as 6 months seems a little short? I plug all of my items into a surge protector board just in case



Thanks for your response. Actually i was looking at these:

http://www.aquariumartist.com.sg/pro...par38_60d.html 

but then i saw these:

http://www.aquariumartist.com.sg/products_200300.html

however, they are for marine tanks. so i was just wondering whether i can use for normal planted tanks.

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## Tucker

Hi Fireball,

You should not use Marine Lighting for a planted tank, you will end up with many headaches over algal blooms and plant growth. Although I have only had a quick look at that website it seems to specialise in Marine products only so I would stay away from them.

For the same price it would cost you to buy enough of those LED lights for your tank, you could also buy a fantastic tube lighting unit instead which would do a better job for your plants.

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## Fireball

> Hi Fireball,
> 
> You should not use Marine Lighting for a planted tank, you will end up with many headaches over algal blooms and plant growth. Although I have only had a quick look at that website it seems to specialise in Marine products only so I would stay away from them.
> 
> For the same price it would cost you to buy enough of those LED lights for your tank, you could also buy a fantastic tube lighting unit instead which would do a better job for your plants.


What do you meant by "tube lighting unit"? Is that a LED setup?

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## Tucker

> What do you meant by "tube lighting unit"? Is that a LED setup?


Sorry by that I meant the normal PL lights.

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## sheng

May be you can take a look at this :

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...abour-Day-2011!

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## Fireball

> Sorry by that I meant the normal PL lights.


I see. In the past, I used PL lights before. They tend to heat up the water, so I don't really like to use them.

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## Fireball

> May be you can take a look at this :
> 
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...abour-Day-2011!


Thanks for the link. 

I just posted there to ask whether they have 1 ft tube because I am thinking of setting up a one ft cube tank.

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## ladygaga

> Thanks for your response. Actually i was looking at these:
> 
> http://www.aquariumartist.com.sg/pro...par38_60d.html 
> 
> but then i saw these:
> 
> http://www.aquariumartist.com.sg/products_200300.html
> 
> however, they are for marine tanks. so i was just wondering whether i can use for normal planted tanks.


For plant LED, most people are heard from somebody said on internet who is heard from another somebody said....

I have 1st hand material...I started my 4ft tank with LED texture.s
They are not big brand like somebody suggested, they made in China.
They are not high wattage which is at least 3W/B, they were actually LCD PCB. 

Spec: 0.058W/4V per bulb, white color, 120 bulbs per board, 12V DC drive.
Totally I used 12 pieces of board. I estimated luminous are same as 3x39W T5HO.

It's like this:


It perform awesome than I expected, the glosso spread fast which we know make lives on strong light. 

But I changed to T5HO after 3 weeks. I could not find a good way of water-proof, they fell down into the tank! 


PS: Actually there's no white LED, all diodes can only emit one of its color. White LED is an UV light indeed. We can see the yellow color of the bulb in my photo above, it's the phosphors which will emit white light when triggered by UV.
The LED lifespan is upon to the phosphors, not the diodes. The advertised lifespan (50000Hrs) is diodes, not the phosphors----it's shorter remarkably.

My Conclusion:
1. So best LED for planted tank, ought to be RGB.......(I would say, OMG).
2. Most white LED will work for planted tank. My experience, 40W for 4ft tank is enough. It's a shame to say only those high-out LED are for plant, especially specified for aquarium----it's kind of a better business only, not the real.

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## Fireball

> For plant LED, most people are heard from somebody said on internet who is heard from another somebody said....
> 
> I have 1st hand material...I started my 4ft tank with LED texture.s
> They are not big brand like somebody suggested, they made in China.
> They are not high wattage which is at least 3W/B, they were actually LCD PCB. 
> 
> Spec: 0.058W/4V per bulb, white color, 120 bulbs per board, 12V DC drive.
> Totally I used 12 pieces of board. I estimated luminous are same as 3x39W T5HO.
> 
> ...


Do you have a picture of your LED setup before it went into the water?

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## k3nlim

I used to have one of those par led bulb..2 went out on me (flickering with burnt smell) 60degree spread,6500k and with 5 3watts diode. The operating temperture seems to be at the higher limit of 30degree C, our local climate might not be able to sustain its lifespan. 
I have on the bulb like 4hours>siesta of 2hours>4hours on daily basis.

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## jeffteo

> Thanks for your response. Actually i was looking at these:
> 
> http://www.aquariumartist.com.sg/pro...par38_60d.html 
> 
> but then i saw these:
> 
> http://www.aquariumartist.com.sg/products_200300.html
> 
> however, they are for marine tanks. so i was just wondering whether i can use for normal planted tanks.


For planted tanks, either LumenAqua Sunshine, LumenAqua 200/300 or LumenAqua Mini. I am using the Mini for my Nano and HC are creeping. Ansell is using the 200 and you can find his post on it at http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t=ansel+garden

I feel that with high Watt per LED, you just don't need as much LED to give a specific brightness while the lower Watt per LED make up for the same brightness by using more LED. Definitely more energy efficient, lower heat and last longer than FL or PL tube.

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## Ariel

LEDs turn yellow after 3~4 months of usage, and are no longer bright, not a good light source for plants

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## ladygaga

> Do you have a picture of your LED setup before it went into the water?


Regretful, nope. The time I were an ostrich and enjoyed myself by burying my head in the gravel...haha.. I took photos after I joined aquarium forum for sharing.

The first time I want to use LED for my 1.5ft tank was back to 2009. I were laughed by LFS uncle: " Are you kidding me? LED light for tank? No points lah." Now, all LFS are flooded with LED....

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## felix_fx2

> LEDs turn yellow after 3~4 months of usage, and are no longer bright, not a good light source for plants


Do you mean when used locally?
If you go scour the web you'll find that the early ones using all are from cooler climate.

Heat can and will quickly shorten a led lifespan. That's why I toll date dare not try. This thread is like poison now

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## ladygaga

> Do you mean when used locally?
> If you go scour the web you'll find that the early ones using all are from cooler climate.
> 
> Heat can and will quickly shorten a led lifespan. That's why I toll date dare not try. This thread is like poison now


I will use my 50' Plasma TV facing down for my aquarium lighting ---- only after I have chance to replace with a new one. 
It will be the best lighting source. Just go outside take a full sunny day video and playback....

No joking, anybody want to try?

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## Fireball

> For planted tanks, either LumenAqua Sunshine, LumenAqua 200/300 or LumenAqua Mini. I am using the Mini for my Nano and HC are creeping. Ansell is using the 200 and you can find his post on it at http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t=ansel+garden
> 
> I feel that with high Watt per LED, you just don't need as much LED to give a specific brightness while the lower Watt per LED make up for the same brightness by using more LED. Definitely more energy efficient, lower heat and last longer than FL or PL tube.


nice. thanks for the links. i will go check it out

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## Fireball

> LEDs turn yellow after 3~4 months of usage, and are no longer bright, not a good light source for plants


do you mind sharing what brand or type of LEDs you were using?

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## Fireball

> Regretful, nope. The time I were an ostrich and enjoyed myself by burying my head in the gravel...haha.. I took photos after I joined aquarium forum for sharing.
> 
> The first time I want to use LED for my 1.5ft tank was back to 2009. I were laughed by LFS uncle: " Are you kidding me? LED light for tank? No points lah." Now, all LFS are flooded with LED....


well, at least you tried. you should tell the LFS uncle that....

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## Fireball

> Do you mean when used locally?
> If you go scour the web you'll find that the early ones using all are from cooler climate.
> 
> Heat can and will quickly shorten a led lifespan. That's why I toll date dare not try. This thread is like poison now



hehe... didn't mind to setup a poison thread.

i was just curious to see how much LEDs for fish tank use has developed. 

i found out that if you import from china, the LumenAqua max 300 will cost you around SGD150+ (excluding shipping). Quite interested to get one for fresh water tank. And I also found out that you requested for all white LEDs instead of the white and blue ones.

Now I am really interested to know how well these LEDs fair planted tanks

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## Fireball

> I will use my 50' Plasma TV facing down for my aquarium lighting ---- only after I have chance to replace with a new one. 
> It will be the best lighting source. Just go outside take a full sunny day video and playback....
> 
> No joking, anybody want to try?


plasma? i think your fishes will be cooked  :Smile:

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## Fireball

> For planted tanks, either LumenAqua Sunshine, LumenAqua 200/300 or LumenAqua Mini. I am using the Mini for my Nano and HC are creeping. Ansell is using the 200 and you can find his post on it at http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t=ansel+garden
> 
> I feel that with high Watt per LED, you just don't need as much LED to give a specific brightness while the lower Watt per LED make up for the same brightness by using more LED. Definitely more energy efficient, lower heat and last longer than FL or PL tube.


OMG. I actually seen Ansell's thread before and posted a question for him. Sadly he didn't reply.

Boy, I am really getting old....

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## ladygaga

> plasma? i think your fishes will be cooked


I thought I was the first PHD have this ideal to imply Plasma for aquarium......I were wrong....somebody already tried.

PL lighting: 15 Lumens per watt
LED: ..........70 lumens per watt
Plasma.......140 lumens per watt

Plasma light spec is same as sun. In theory, it's the best next to our sun light.

018.jpg

Sorry for this plasma hijacking.

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## jeffteo

> hehe... didn't mind to setup a poison thread.
> 
> i was just curious to see how much LEDs for fish tank use has developed. 
> 
> i found out that if you import from china, the LumenAqua max 300 will cost you around SGD150+ (excluding shipping). Quite interested to get one for fresh water tank. And I also found out that you requested for all white LEDs instead of the white and blue ones.
> 
> Now I am really interested to know how well these LEDs fair planted tanks


Call or SMS Vincent from AquariumArtist. He will give you the new pricing. I think those on the web outdated already. Should be cheaper now.

LED technology have advanced a lot. People who are using MH are slowly switching to LED. Cost wise, it will slowly come down and comparable to MH at a cheaper price in the long run. Usually are those cheapo LED lamp that will not work for planted tank. You pay for what you get...

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## ladygaga

> Call or SMS Vincent from AquariumArtist. He will give you the new pricing. I think those on the web outdated already. Should be cheaper now.
> 
> LED technology have advanced a lot. People who are using MH are slowly switching to LED. Cost wise, it will slowly come down and comparable to MH at a cheaper price in the long run. Usually are those cheapo LED lamp that will not work for planted tank. You pay for what you get...


Had you tried? Hi-end LED VS cheap?

Or any PK links?

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## jeffteo

> Had you tried? Hi-end LED VS cheap?
> 
> Or any PK links?


I am using one with 4 x 1 watt Philips LED, cheap one will be a 12 LED for less than $20 with unknown power of each LED. Totally cannot compare. Maybe need a 32+4 LED Aquazonic LED to be somewhere near it.
Google will provide you the links if you want PK. Here is one that I found, http://www.gardenscure.com/420/light...-watt-led.html.
Higher watt LED penetrate farther and will definitely benefit those with taller tanks.

I am a strong supporter of LED for planted tank and still experimenting the effectiveness. One thing for sure is the power consumption is lower than FL, PL or MH. 
My 4 x 1W LED is driven only by a 700mA 15 V DC adapter and that is only 10.5 W?
Radiated heat into the water is much lower which will again help save on electricity from chiller kick in frequency. Just my 2 cents.

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## hellomyfriend

so in conclusion LED is still better than PL and FL lights?

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## thebaldingaquarist

> where did you read all these from? pls provide links.
> 
> i like LED lighting because they are cooler than PL. 
> 
> Btw, how do you check that the light frequency matches natural lights? How about those LED lights used for saltwater tanks? Do they match?




I am sorry, i don't have those links anymore as it was quite some time ago when i last read online for this matter. The frequency is normally listed as part of the sale. like
http://cgi.ebay.com/10pcs-New-5mm-BL...item43a4fa2bd4

Cheers.

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## jeffteo

What I read before is LED have lesser wasted spectrum of light that plants don't need.

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## Shadow

I saw many LED light at Aquarama 2011, but somehow all of the plant color under LED light is kind of dull compare to normal PL or T5. The leaf green color look pale to my liking. It may not affect plant grow though but not nice to see  :Razz: . I probably stick to PL or T5 a while longer until they fix the spectrum.

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## felix_fx2

Shadow you mean the light too white/blue?

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## Shadow

The like look white, at least to my eye  :Razz:  but the plant leaf color not as green. However, there have possibilities that the plant they display is dying  :Razz:  that why the color is dull. Never the less when I asked the price, I run away without 2nd thought  :Laughing:

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## jeffteo

> The like look white, at least to my eye  but the plant leaf color not as green. However, there have possibilities that the plant they display is dying  that why the color is dull. Never the less when I asked the price, I run away without 2nd thought


Good LED fixtures price are still high. Will still need to wait when more people adopt LED fixtures before the price will drop.
My LED fixture for 1 ft can get a few cheapo LED fixture or 2 decent 1 ft PL/FL light fixture.

You may be right that the plant may be dying. I did not face any problem with mine when using LED.
Only problem I find with LED is when taking photo. If the LED bulb is exposed directly to the lens it will create a beam of light vertically across the whole photo.

This is how my tank with LED looks. No adjustment of color to photo done.

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## Fireball

> Call or SMS Vincent from AquariumArtist. He will give you the new pricing. I think those on the web outdated already. Should be cheaper now.
> 
> LED technology have advanced a lot. People who are using MH are slowly switching to LED. Cost wise, it will slowly come down and comparable to MH at a cheaper price in the long run. Usually are those cheapo LED lamp that will not work for planted tank. You pay for what you get...


actually, my concern is after paying so much, will the LED last or not? and whether the intensity of the LED will drop

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## Fireball

> so in conclusion LED is still better than PL and FL lights?


seems like it, provided if the correct type of LED is used

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## Fireball

> Good LED fixtures price are still high. Will still need to wait when more people adopt LED fixtures before the price will drop.
> My LED fixture for 1 ft can get a few cheapo LED fixture or 2 decent 1 ft PL/FL light fixture.
> 
> You may be right that the plant may be dying. I did not face any problem with mine when using LED.
> Only problem I find with LED is when taking photo. If the LED bulb is exposed directly to the lens it will create a beam of light vertically across the whole photo.
> 
> This is how my tank with LED looks. No adjustment of color to photo done.


do you still have a picture of your LED light fixture?

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## jeffteo

> actually, my concern is after paying so much, will the LED last or not? and whether the intensity of the LED will drop


LED by right is more lasting and intensity should stay the same after prolong usage. Good LED light intensity should not decrease over time.
Currently I am still trying and will not be able to say if it will last as long as it is claimed.
I just got 2 3 ft T8 tube from inled for my next project and will see if a lower watt per LED with higher total number of LED is as good.

A teaser for now...

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## Fireball

> LED by right is more lasting and intensity should stay the same after prolong usage. Good LED light intensity should not decrease over time.
> Currently I am still trying and will not be able to say if it will last as long as it is claimed.
> I just got 2 3 ft T8 tube from inled for my next project and will see if a lower watt per LED with higher total number of LED is as good.
> 
> A teaser for now...



nice. do you have picture of your one ft tank LED light? cuz i m planning to do up a 30 cm cube

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## ladygaga

> I am using one with 4 x 1 watt Philips LED, cheap one will be a 12 LED for less than $20 with unknown power of each LED. Totally cannot compare. Maybe need a 32+4 LED Aquazonic LED to be somewhere near it.
> Google will provide you the links if you want PK. Here is one that I found, http://www.gardenscure.com/420/light...-watt-led.html.
> Higher watt LED penetrate farther and will definitely benefit those with taller tanks.
> 
> I am a strong supporter of LED for planted tank and still experimenting the effectiveness. One thing for sure is the power consumption is lower than FL, PL or MH. 
> My 4 x 1W LED is driven only by a 700mA 15 V DC adapter and that is only 10.5 W?
> Radiated heat into the water is much lower which will again help save on electricity from chiller kick in frequency. Just my 2 cents.


No, there's no way (or very difficult) to google out Hi-end VS cheapo LED. Even the link you provide has nothing to do with it.

Is it because of:
1) For industrial protection. Even the manufacturer never do the PK themselves, gave out real evidence. Some more, or fake evidence. If you are interested, look at this video.
2) It's simply doesn't work as per they claimed.




> LED by right is more lasting and intensity should stay the same after prolong usage. Good LED light intensity should not decrease over time.
> Currently I am still trying and will not be able to say if it will last as long as it is claimed.
> I just got 2 3 ft T8 tube from inled for my next project and will see if a lower watt per LED with higher total number of LED is as good.
> 
> A teaser for now...


For R/G/B LED, they may last longer. For white LED, may not. That's why we have color LED first, then we have white. How to make powerful and long lasting white LED, we're still on the way to go.

It's worth to try low watt white LED (I tried, I knew it), they are really very cool----- I mean cold light, haha.

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## jeffteo

> do you still have a picture of your LED light fixture?


It is in my Nano scape thread in my signature.

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## jeffteo

> No, there's no way (or very difficult) to google out Hi-end VS cheapo LED. Even the link you provide has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Is it because of:
> 1) For industrial protection. Even the manufacturer never do the PK themselves, gave out real evidence. Some more, or fake evidence. If you are interested, look at this video.
> 2) It's simply doesn't work as per they claimed.
> 
> 
> 
> For R/G/B LED, they may last longer. For white LED, may not. That's why we have color LED first, then we have white. How to make powerful and long lasting white LED, we're still on the way to go.
> ...


That video is HPS vs LED and not high end vs low end LED also.
Basically with low watt per LED, you can't do the same job with the same amount of LED as a higher watt LED. By the way, I am not a seller trying to promote my product so chill. Just sharing my experience here.

Whether white LED will last or not, I will update when mine die. Anyway, when we say it last longer and is more energy efficient and cheaper in the long run, we are comparing it with other type of lights against the cost of the fixture, the replacement of tube/bulb and the electricity cost. It may just be cheaper to replace the LED light fixture than replacing tubes/bulbs over the same period of time theoretically especially when compared to MH. Not to even mention electricity cost.  :Smile:

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## BFG

Guys, hold on for a minute. 

Led might not last long as advertised and the fault may lie on heat. Led bulb do need to be cooled when they are switched on, in fact all aquarium light tubes need to be cooled to maximize their life span. Heat shorten the life span of light bulbs/tube and before that happen, it will degrade the light spectrum ( kelvin ). You'll notice this when your tank is producing more algae than plant growth. The light bulb spectrum has shifted from the factory produced rating to a lower rating due to the de-grading of the lights itself due to heat. 

Not all led light bulb are the same nor are they created equal. Most of the led you see being used in public areas to lit common area are usually use for that purpose alone and therefore par reading and kelvin are really not a factor. But for us aquarium owner, these 2 factor are really important to us, especially to the livestock we are keeping. Par will determine how much the brightness is at certain level in the tank and kelvin will determine the correct temperature of light being illuminated. These 2 are the most important factor for me in determining the types of led to purchase. 

Cheap led bulb always do not have this 2 factor. They might have 1 but not the other. Right now in the market, the only option is to get quality led bulb from CREE. If price is an issue, the other option is to get SEMILEDs led bulb. Todays high end led bulb are the CREE's XP-G led bulb but soon there is another new CREE led bulb coming out, the CREE's XM. Phillips will have their own led bulb, the Rebel ES. Google for their specs. Look for a suitable kelvin rating for your tank use and choose a bulb that is not less than 3w per led bulb. 


Hope this helps!

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## Fireball

> It is in my Nano scape thread in my signature.


ok. saw your tank already. nice

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## Fireball

> Guys, hold on for a minute. 
> 
> Led might not last long as advertised and the fault may lie on heat. Led bulb do need to be cooled when they are switched on, in fact all aquarium light tubes need to be cooled to maximize their life span. Heat shorten the life span of light bulbs/tube and before that happen, it will degrade the light spectrum ( kelvin ). You'll notice this when your tank is producing more algae than plant growth. The light bulb spectrum has shifted from the factory produced rating to a lower rating due to the de-grading of the lights itself due to heat. 
> 
> Not all led light bulb are the same nor are they created equal. Most of the led you see being used in public areas to lit common area are usually use for that purpose alone and therefore par reading and kelvin are really not a factor. But for us aquarium owner, these 2 factor are really important to us, especially to the livestock we are keeping. Par will determine how much the brightness is at certain level in the tank and kelvin will determine the correct temperature of light being illuminated. These 2 are the most important factor for me in determining the types of led to purchase. 
> 
> Cheap led bulb always do not have this 2 factor. They might have 1 but not the other. Right now in the market, the only option is to get quality led bulb from CREE. If price is an issue, the other option is to get SEMILEDs led bulb. Todays high end led bulb are the CREE's XP-G led bulb but soon there is another new CREE led bulb coming out, the CREE's XM. Phillips will have their own led bulb, the Rebel ES. Google for their specs. Look for a suitable kelvin rating for your tank use and choose a bulb that is not less than 3w per led bulb. 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!


This is what I wanted to know. Thanks for your input. Now I will need to do some research before buying

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## jeffteo

LumenAqua Max and Nano/Mini are using 1W Philips LEDs. The higher end one are using 3W LEDs but not sure of the brand and of course at a much higher price.

Check out http://www.skyhigh-technology.com for the specs if interested.

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## k3nlim

totally agree on the heating part..

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## smk

Hi
read alot on min 3W for planted AQ, but most of these LED are for marine set (IMO) and the power is far too high for a mid-low planted set up ...

unlike tube (T5 or T  :Cool: , we can remove/off 1 or 2 tube to reduce ... for LED i think will end up with dark/dim spot

saw different information on Web for Lumenaqua max , some 3W/ea and in other 1w/ea.

Anyway, i got 3x max 300 in Aquarama 2011 for my 46" x 16"x H18" .... was told 2W/ea with the new set but lumen output same as the 3W spec (25W each set with 12 LED) ...
not sure if it's done with overdrive ...... :-( . wish me luck ... hahhaa
now waiting for tank and light set.


mk

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## ivanthensf

can any experienced users recommend a few brands/models that they have tried and are sure that it works?

just pass by wuhu today and saw a brand (forgot name), on the specs i remember it says it has 6500k and 10000k i think.

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## tawauboy

*lifetime*
LED is claimed to last up to 50000 or more hours. LED lifetime is the time taken to drop to 70% of initial light output level. conventional light sources lifetime is time taken by 50% of test samples failing.

the LED lifetime is an extrapolated value based on some initial value and some final value. methods have been proposed but i do not know if any has been adopted as a standard.

other than the LED, the electronic components making up the current drivers needs to be taken into account but they are almost never. chances are that the electronic components will quit way before the LEDs give up.

*heat*
does LED produce heat? yes, plenty of it. fortunately, the heat is on the opposite direction of the light (heatsinks) and LED does not emit IR. thus, LED light does not heat up the aquarium water directly.

*colour*
white light LED is a blue LED with yellow phosphor coating. the blue light mixes with the 'down-converted'producing a preceived white light. thus, white LED light has predominantly blue wavelengths. this is the reason that we see white LED apprearing on the lighting scene after the invention of blue LED in 1995.

better white light can be formed by mixing red, green and blue LEDs. these RGB-based white light LED offer better colour rendering capability but they have poorer light output capability, more than 30%~40% lower.

*is LED light better?*
depends. buying into LED lighting, chances are that you'll be tied to a system. there may not be 3rd party bulb replacements available. LED lighting is significantly more expensive and return of investment is poor. however, you'll get a light source that does not heat up the aquarium water directly.

conventional light sources (pl, mh, ...) have standardized bulbs so replacements are easy to get and cheaper than LED. however, these light sources emit IR which heats up the water.

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## hellomyfriend

> *lifetime*
> LED is claimed to last up to 50000 or more hours. LED lifetime is the time taken to drop to 70% of initial light output level. conventional light sources lifetime is time taken by 50% of test samples failing.
> 
> the LED lifetime is an extrapolated value based on some initial value and some final value. methods have been proposed but i do not know if any has been adopted as a standard.
> 
> other than the LED, the electronic components making up the current drivers needs to be taken into account but they are almost never. chances are that the electronic components will quit way before the LEDs give up.
> 
> *heat*
> does LED produce heat? yes, plenty of it. fortunately, the heat is on the opposite direction of the light (heatsinks) and LED does not emit IR. thus, LED light does not heat up the aquarium water directly.
> ...




THANK YOU for the enlightening before i commit to buy  :Razz:

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## bernie

If we take 3w per LED bulb as a guide, the added up wattage to illuminate a 2ft or bigger tank maybe higher than a T5 HO? There's no advantage about lower power consumption if for example it needs more than 16 LED with 3W each vs a 2x T5 HO tube (24w x2) to light up a 2ft tank.

Not sure about the cost of replacement of LED bulbs. A T5 HO 2ft tube cost from S$8.50.

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## silentmorning

Let me share some little exp on LED lighting for bros here to have considerations whether to choose LED or not. Lets do some comparisons: 

Light Output Comparison:
*For T5HO the typical Lumens/ Watt is somewhere typically ard 90lumens/W which comes out => 24W x 90 x 2 tube = 4320lumens
(http://www.specialty-lights.com/plant-grow-faq3.html)
*For 1 x LED XP-G driving @ 1000ma is 3.3 w , lumens output is 347.5 per LED, which also means 105 lumens/W . Using 12 XPG on typical setup to illuminate a 2ft tank => 12 x 347.5 = 4170 lumens, power consumption is ard 3.3*12 =39.6Watts (http://www.ledsupply.com/docs/XLampXP-G-1.pdf)

Cost (based on 8yrs time)
T5HO: Fixture Cost ard 50? chg of tube per yr is abt 8.50x2 = SGD17 per yr. 8yrs abt SGD136. Total abt SGD186
LED: Fixture + 12 CREE XPG LED is abt SGD330~350 (customised). Based on specs of rated life is abt 50,000 hrs, it can last at least 9yrs (10hrs used daily). Total Cost abt SGD330~350

From above... LED is giving slightly higher lumens output compare to T5HO, but we dun see any lower power consumption as what ppl are claiming. and for Cost wise, we dun see there is any advantage to it also as LED is almost 2 times the cost of T5. What you get using LED is the Shimmering effect like sunlight or MH.
but do note that we cannnot compare LED to T5HO in lumens output...the most accurate is by PAR as the light intensity of LED n T5HO is different. 

I'm currently using a customised LED lighting (12x CREE XPG @ 1000mA) to lit my 2.5ft Planted tank (previously using 2Tubes 24W T5). Although thru calculations, T5HO lumens is higher, but in actual case, I found that LED light is much brighter than the T5HO. and I have a very nice shimmering effects compare to T5. btw My personal opinion, Plants are doing better than previous lighting as i notice plants leaves are more compact compact to previous and more bubble, even my fern also bubbling which is not case to my previous lighting...

If bros here are on a tight budget, i suggest stick to T5HO rather than the luxurious LED although i using LED also :P Just my 2cents
Have a good weekend guys  :Smile:

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## jeffteo

Yes. The shimmering effect and the depth of penetration that LED can achive. That's the main reason why I get LED. How can I forget this... The shimmering effect was what that got me "addicted" to using LED when I first saw the effect on a MH set up. But MH is so expensive and hot and LED is the perfect solution to replicate the same shimmering effect. For cost wise, cannot compare with FL or PL but MH. LED benefitted reef tank the most as they need the shimmering effect without the heat and now slowly planted tank too.

Just my another 2 cents...

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## felix_fx2

Silentmorning bro. Jeff bought it already. If led had more easily have 2 or more benefits like less heat, less power used & easy replacement. I would dive in too.

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## jeffteo

> Silentmorning bro. Jeff bought it already. If led had more easily have 2 or more benefits like less heat, less power used & easy replacement. I would dive in too.


The T8 LED tube will be replaceable. It uses low powered LEDs and is much less warmer than the high powered.
Energy consumption wise never check or calculate yet. The most accurate way is to use an amp meter to do the actual reading from the live wire. I have the meter but lazy to test... hehe  :Grin:  maybe tonight...

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## felix_fx2

There is a appliance to do the metering. Some bros are using.

Then can use take the meter reading and calc. Much faster

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## jeffteo

No need special appliance like those 3 pin plug watt meter. I don't believe in those, just some fancy toy which may catches fire.
Get the Amp meter with the clamp will do. Just need to split the wires and measure from one of the wires preferable the the live wire. Using a 2 pin extension power strip will be easier.




Adding on. Forgotten about my physics already but somehow i feel that when we measure wattage, we need to consider the voltage used also. LED runs at different voltage and T5HO runs at 24V. i.e 15V x 500mA and 24V x 500mA will give you a different wattage. I don't think the 24W on T5HO or 1W/3W is the actual power drawn but the energy of the light(not perceive brightness which is in Lumen). My LED is 4 x 1W but the power adapter output is 15V 700ma which is 15 * 0.7A = 10.5W. If W is the power drawn a 1.5ft T5 single lamp will be 18W which is already more than LED.

Emm... Anyway, Amp meter will give the most accurate measurement for the actual power consumption and light intensity of LED cannot compare with T5 tube directly. i.e. a 2 ft 2 x 24W T5HO will not be the same as a 2ft 12 x 3W LED power to light intensity ratio. I believe the LED is much much powerful in this case especially on light intensity. Only PAR measurement will tell the difference just like what silentmorning said.

Sorry if I am contradicting or making it too confusing.

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## felix_fx2

Your both lol.

But your not wrong This type measure the best, but not everyone have the cash to buy them and do that.

Yes you got it, fit the lazy fella  :Smile: 
P.s: I'm not using it, I'm too lazy to count. Just pay the bill & compare with past 6 mths from any change.

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## Windsor

Interesting to know the outcome as I am into LED lighting. Trying out the PAR 38 and it appears this may be best for spot focusing as the light does not spread well. May need to use 2 for a 2 feet tank but good for Nano or 1 foot planted tank. At about $100/- per set this is reasonable as it is cool, lightweight and should last several years. Power consumption is 15 watts.

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## smk

Hi,

just completed my set up last weekend. I'm using 3 x Lumenaqua max 300. Still think of a good way to link all three together. 
Will update in a week or 2 ..... same thing i look for in LED , low heat to the tank, the heatsink is quiet hot ... and hopefully low elec consumption. 


mk

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## jeffteo

> Your both lol.
> 
> But your not wrong This type measure the best, but not everyone have the cash to buy them and do that.
> 
> Yes you got it, fit the lazy fella 
> P.s: I'm not using it, I'm too lazy to count. Just pay the bill & compare with past 6 mths from any change.


 Using the utilities bill is really a very rough estimate only. Other electrical usage may be the actual spike if there is any. Talking about cost, FL, PL or LED they don't cost more than $10 a month for a set. MH, maybe and more...



> Hi,
> 
> just completed my set up last weekend. I'm using 3 x Lumenaqua max 300. Still think of a good way to link all three together. 
> Will update in a week or 2 ..... same thing i look for in LED , low heat to the tank, the heatsink is quiet hot ... and hopefully low elec consumption. 
> 
> 
> mk


 Cool, I have been contemplating for a very long time on getting one of this. Maybe after my pay raise...

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## felix_fx2

Compared to my 72w PL, the t5. 136w? $10 more I think. Pub raised the per watt billing every now and then.

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## smk

there is no written spec given for these LED i bought, just the the word of retailer .. which of this set have 12x2W LED and est. 25W per set = 3 x= 75W...


mk

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## jeffteo

> there is no written spec given for these LED i bought, just the the word of retailer .. which of this set have 12x2W LED and est. 25W per set = 3 x= 75W...
> 
> 
> mk


Does it comes with a power adapter, the max power consumption can be calculate from the Input specification. 230V * A = W.

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## jeffteo

Found more specification on the Lumen Aqua products. The Lumen Aqua Sunshine is in my wish list...

For the Pro, MH alternative(Not FL/PL) - http://www.skyhigh-technology.com/Up...7201441289.pdf
Lighter on the pocket - http://www.skyhigh-technology.com/Up...1811398101.pdf
The cheapest but for Nanos - http://www.skyhigh-technology.com/Up...8114145609.pdf
Par30 - http://www.skyhigh-technology.com/Up...8114228217.pdf

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## smk

> Does it comes with a power adapter, the max power consumption can be calculate from the Input specification. 230V * A = W.


on the adaptor printed 24DC 1400mA. that's max 33.6W ?


mk

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## jeffteo

> on the adaptor printed 24DC 1400mA. that's max 33.6W ?
> 
> 
> mk


DC is the output. What about the input current? 1A?

For people who are interested in the T8 LED. The pair of 3 feet I am using is drawing 0.11A and that is 25.3W (230 V x 0.11 A). The same current as my 1 x 36 W PL.

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## jeffteo

More updates...

My Retrofit II 2 x 24 W T5 HO - 0.17A (39.1 W)



Lumen Aqua Mini 4 x 1W LED - 0.05A (11.5 W)

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## smk

> Does it comes with a power adapter, the max power consumption can be calculate from the Input specification. 230V * A = W.


Hmmm ... printed input 240V , 1A = 240W ? likely printing error ??

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## jeffteo

> Hmmm ... printed input 240V , 1A = 240W ? likely printing error ??


I think that is the max the adapter can go draw. For adapter, I have no idea how to calculate the actual power consumption other than use a amp meter.  :Grin:  Any electrical engineer can help advice?

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## smk

Ok, thanks . Has been 2 weeks and plant are growing . Will update 2 week later . Thank you
mk

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## cylap888

Has anyone considered using LED grow light mainly used in hydroponics industries. The lights are mainly RED, BLUE, and Orange spectrum. It has been shown that LED light with a lot of red light will produced plants that grow fast stems. And light with lots of blue will produce more compact (dense) plants.

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## merciwash

Thanks for the info but what if i combine 2 light like red and blue will the plant be long and thick. Thanks :Smile:

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## stormhawk

Tried out the LED light set that came with the Dymax IQ5. It looks cool but I can understand why some forumers say it sucks. The dimmer on mine occasionally works and the function to turn on and off the blue lights is not working. I opened up the control unit and it looks fine but I reckon there's a wiring problem somewhere, or those buttons just don't work.  :Knockout:

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## merciwash

I'm not sure also i got 2 IQ5 at home like you said the light some time don't work and some times do i just add a timer and don't adjust so until now still ok. :Confused:

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## stormhawk

Precisely why people say it's crap. The buttons are there for a reason but do not seem to work right all the time. Only the Power On button is reliable, but what's the use of 4 functions when they don't work when you want them to.  :Laughing: 

I guess Dymax needs to do some real QC before releasing such light sets in the future. At least one person on Dymax's Facebook said his NX5 light set blew out after 3 days. How is this possible when LED lights are supposed to last longer than fluorescent lamps?  :Knockout: 

See this for the FB link - http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...44555475564055

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## merciwash

Made in china what to do  :Knockout:

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## siongboon

LED lights lifespan is known to have longer lifespan & lower energy consumptionthan fluorescent lamp.
You may like to try low power LED lightings.
High power LED tends to generate more heat and those LED lamps usually requires a good heat sink to dissipate the heat.
Improper/faulty heat sink design can wear off the LED bulb; the bulb is a semiconductor material.
Low power LED lights last longer because less heat generated. I saw these lightings in the lighting shop at Havelock Blk 22. The shop is very unique and interesting, because they sell a lot of energy saving products.

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## tawauboy

> .......... How is this possible when LED lights are supposed to last longer than fluorescent lamps? 
> 
> See this for the FB link - http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...44555475564055


a few possibilities;
a) poor current control that causes the drive current to fluctuate and exceed the LED limit
b) poor design of power supply or poor quality of electronic components
c) poor menufacturing causing micro shorts 

the LED itself can last very long provided it is kept cool and not overdriven (ie current control is good). if these 2 conditions are not met, anything can happen.

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## siongboon

Yes. You are right. LED can last a very very long time, provided they are designed within their specification. LED that generate less heat is going to last for a very long time.

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## BFG

> Yes. You are right. LED can last a very very long time, provided they are designed within their specification. LED that generate less heat is going to last for a very long time.


Led does generate heat. Only with using other external equipment that actively cools the led that it might last long. Without actively cooling the board that the led is mounted on, the led would not last long, no matter low or high wattage. If I am not wrong, the specs calls for the led to be operated at 26 degree for it to last 10000hr. I remembered this clearly when led was just started to go main stream about 2 years ago.

Also, the length of time the led supposed to operate doesn't guarantee the same par/kelvin it was when you first bought it. Even if it could be used for a long time, it might only be beneficial to algae than the aquatic plants that you are trying to grow and maintain. T5 was only beneficial for the 1st 9 months and degrade to become an algae growing light past the year mark.

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## naz

Hi all, I'm considering to upgrade my lighting source. Any reviews so far? Read from page 1 to 5. Some using diy, some using t8 tubes, some using lumenaqua or something. 
Hope you guys can share the progress. Thnx.

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## BFG

A ready made set cost a bunch of monies. Go that route if you have cash to spare. There will be constant upgrade of led bulb so if you want, get a fixture that could easily change the led bulb. I have just received my Maxspect Mazarra light fixture. I upgraded to this from the Maxspect G2 that I bought last year. Have not run it yet though.

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## naz

Wow! Must have cost a bomb! 
Thnx

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## BFG

Yup, but I now know that led bulb do not live up to expectation. The 10000hr life span does not come true for my own experience. This is my 2nd Maxspect light fixture, let's see how this light fixture stands out.

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## naz

Dang! 
I know how you must feel. I'm restless even at work trying to figure out what light set to use. I have a 4ft length by 2.5ft deep tank. Currently on Aqua Zonic 54x4 and one of the tubes sometimes on sometimes off (ballast or connection prob). Sometimes when I swit h on another switch it will turn on! 

Just went to NA, Got tempted by Hopar MH clip on light!! 2x150w is sure to solve the lighting issue!!! But heat issue?? 

Sigh.. 

Any suggestions/recommendations?

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## BFG

4 light tube not enough in my opinion. I was using 8 x 54w T5 light tube for my 4ft marine tank. You got to sit down and do some calculation on the cost of owning and operating each type of lighting.

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## kelvinlim11

> Hi,
> 
> I am not sure whether I should post my question here or in the planted tank forum. 
> 
> Anyway, here it goes:
> 
> I am looking to set up a planted fish tank again with all the new nice looking LED lights coming up recently. I have question about life span of such lighting. 
> 
> In the past, I used to have PL lights and I changed them every six months. So similarly, do I need to replace the LED bulbs frequently or can they last forever (until the bulb blows).
> ...



I have been using led lights from aqauzonic for my 3ft tank for about 1.5 years and its still working well. I don't think we really can judge it is gets dimmer unless we use a light meter.

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## naz

> 4 light tube not enough in my opinion. I was using 8 x 54w T5 light tube for my 4ft marine tank. You got to sit down and do some calculation on the cost of owning and operating each type of lighting.


hehehe... i setteled with 6x 54 T5HO from DeLightings! It was nice till the temp shoot up and then, Green Water Issues! A good reason to finally SCAPE my aquarium! lolx

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