# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  Diffusor or Reactor?

## LiquidFX

Which one is more efficient? It seems like when using the diffusor, the bubbles still reach the surface of the water. But according to the Amano magazine, the air that reaches the surface is no longer carbon dioxide but waste gases.

In the case of the reactor, all the air seems to be dissolved.

So which one better? Or are they the same?

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## Simon

it will oso depend on the quality of the diffuser u using.. if u look at the ceramic portion of any diffuser, and the size of bubble produce from it.. example: the ADA pollen glass produce very fine bubbles

as for reactors, the mixing will dissolve C02 better?

gotta test both out and see the result, overall for me, not much diff.

cheers

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## Tristan

i think reactors dissolve the CO2 faster also... I've used both and when i test pH after the CO2 has been on for a while.. when i use the reactor it's always more CO2... and CO2 not wasted... my plants bubble much more wen i use the reactor....

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## Lav

I think if you compare a diffuser and a reactor of similar price, the diffuser will seem more attractive and works better. 

Apart from the ADA pollen glass that Simon mentioned, another good value for money diffuser is the one sold at the Taiwan shop. Cost only about $40 plus. The bubbles produce are quite fine. [: :Smile: ]

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## tawauboy

Just some thoughts.

Using diffuser, the distance for bubble to travel is depth of tank, maybe ~20".
Using reactor, 1 revolution in a 2" diameter is ~6". If more that 4 revs, then CO2 will be in water longer.
Also, maybe CO2 conc surrounding the diffuser is slightly higher so absorption is slower. Whereas in the reactor, 'depleted CO2' water is passing through all the time.

I have never used either, just DIY CO2 into an airstone. In the process of DIY reactor. Hope it works!

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## Tristan

also... if you have surface scum but no skimmer... then the bubbles from the diffuser will get stuck and will be very ugly...

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## David Loh

I would go for a reactor as the dissolve rate is much better than a diffuser.

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## DEA

there are people who have tried both
not me, i'm always into diffusors
the main feedback from them is that the reactor tends to slow down with time, and the co2 dissolution rate getting to be very bad
with diffusors you can clean them with bleach easily (especially the eheim models)
reactors i haven't tried

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## sherchoo

Efficiency wise.... reactor would be the answer. 

Which is better it would dependes on personal preference. Reactor is big, ugly and bulky. Diffussor looks nice, small and professional but not as efficient as reactor of the same price. 

I'm presently using the taiwanese reactor (the green one) but intend to switch to the ADA glass diffuser.

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## DEA

> ----------------
> On 12/22/2001 12:26:49 AM 
> 
> I'm presently using the taiwanese reactor (the green one) but intend to switch to the ADA glass diffuser.
> ----------------


aren't we all [ :Grin: ]

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## Simon

the major disadvantage of using a reactor is the size, difficult to hide and its an algae collection point  :Razz:  

the other way is a mixer, an external reactor, out of sight

but ADA nice [ :Grin: ]

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## UnderWaterWorld

I think it depends on your size of your tank. A diffusor I think would work well with a small tank 2ft and smaller, not good for larger tanks as the CO2 dissolution is localised and requires some time to be uniform in the tank. For reactors they are better with larger tanks. As mentioned by fellow forumers, the reactor is hard to hide and collection of algae... The diffusor gets stuck very often, reducing its efficiency.

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## DEA

my diffusor in my 2ft tank has never been cleaned once
however, the one in my 4ft has had to be cleaned out twice
i'd surmise it depends on your tank conditions as well (algae or not)

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## teejay

Hi people,

Talking about CO2 thingy, has anyone used the electrolysis CO2 generator?

I saw this device about a year back in one of the fish expo... it was ang moh selling (think made in Germany)... very ex... think it was a few hundred S$.
Last week i went to a big fish shop in JB and they offer me the same product but made in Taiwan and they quoted me RM100.

the device has 2 parts, a power supply where u can control the power output (=bubble rate), and the electrodes which is submersed, about 10x5cm and 1cm thick. Now after long while, the electrodes will be used up and needs to be replaced.

Dont know if this device actually increase temperature, or have any other negative impact.

does anyone got any experience with this?

BTW, good job on this great sites, guys!

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## Simon

in the long run, cylinder is cheaper but more troublesome..

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## DEA

the thing you're talking about is probably the carbo-plus system
a few things were brought up about it IIRC

the size
the length of time it can be used for
cost
mechanism, especially in softwater

the overall conclusion was that cylinder co2 would have been a better investment

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## Axiom

Just wonder can someone post some pics on the reactor and diffuser ?

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## Simon

this is how a dennerle reactor looks like


a ADA diffuser

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## tawauboy

Wah! The ADA diffuser looks cool :Cool: .
Available in Sin?

Anyway can't use it as I am using DIY.

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## Simon

> ----------------
> On 12/22/2001 8:50:55 AM 
> 
> Wah! The ADA diffuser looks cool.
> Available in Sin?
> 
> Anyway can't use it as I am using DIY.
> ----------------


yes

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## Tristan

er... pollen glass.. i think gen x should have... but about $100.... a reactor can be as cheap as $10....
i like the 'up' brand turbo-jet reacotr the best... damn good...

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## DEA

> ----------------
> On 12/22/2001 4:30:06 PM 
> 
> er... pollen glass.. i think gen x should have... but about $100.... a reactor can be as cheap as $10....
> i like the 'up' brand turbo-jet reacotr the best... damn good... 
> 
> ----------------


 :Smug: 
stay tuned

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## jacian

One thing I find abt the reactor is that it is limited by the rate of the outflow. Whenever I increase my bubble count, the CO2 trap in the reactor start to build up. When this happens, it creates a some kind of airlock in the reactor and greater reduced the dissolving of CO2.

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## Tristan

get the turbo jet one... $21 from nature.... the CO2 gets sucked down in the top section and won't build up... you can see it at petmart...
stay tuned? you guys gonna get ADA stuff? but prices will still be quite high rite?

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## Alan Koh

Hi guys,

Personally, I had tried the taiwan reactor (UP Brand), I find that there is always some air trapped in the reactor. I think is due to the strong current flowing out of my filter (eheim 2026) and the amount of CO2 supplied (1-2 bubble per sec).  :Mad:   :Mad:  

But I understand that Dennerle Reactor (above pic) Cyclo 500/5000 will not have this problem. Anyone using it? Any comment?

End of the day, I am still using my JAQNO 3in1 Diffuser, I find it is easier to conceal and it don't take up much space in the tank. :Smile:   :Smile:  

Hope to get a ADA diffuser soon.

Regards

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## Tristan

3in1??

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## Alan Koh

Hi Tristan,

Yes! 3in1 as it is a diffuser cum bubble counter with a build in check valve.

Regards

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## peter chua

Hi Wher is the Big Fish Shop in JB 
would like to visit it if I get there one of these days

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## DEA

similarly the eheim diffusor have built in bubble counters and check valves

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## jacian

> ----------------
> On 12/23/2001 12:16:56 AM 
> 
> But I understand that Dennerle Reactor (above pic) Cyclo 500/5000 will not have this problem. Anyone using it? Any comment?
> 
> ----------------


The Dennerle Reactor does not have the problem becos it has a adjustable gap which allow trap air to escape thru it. But that also means CO2 escaping thru it.  :Smile:

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## Simon

my bioplast reactor oso have a hole for excessive c02 to escape.. waste alot of C02

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## Tristan

i think waste gases(O2, N2..) are lighter than CO2 and only they come out of the hole...
you can put some silicone on it to stop the gas...[ :Grin: ]

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## DEA

> ----------------
> On 12/24/2001 12:54:59 AM 
> 
> i think waste gases(O2, N2..) are lighter than CO2 and only they come out of the hole...
> you can put some silicone on it to stop the gas...[] 
> ----------------



 :Smile:  
o2 isn't a waste gas ^ ^
and even if they are lighter, it's hard to see a good separation when the reactor is running

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## Tristan

but why would there be waste gases from the CO2 cylinder? It's mostly pure CO2 in there rite?

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## DEA

i think you answered yourself
'mostly'
there're different grades of co2, from industrial, food all the way to medical

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## Tristan

i see... so what grade of CO2 do we use.. say we fill it up at soxal or wadever? should be quite pure rite?

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## DEA

industrial grade
but don't bother
in practice the few % doesn't make a difference

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## loupgarou

I used to use diffusers, cos they look nice, except they clog up with algae and I most definitely don't think bleach belongs in an aquarium.

reactors are big, ugly and get algae infested.

I now pipe in the co2 into my eheim canister (just cut the intake strainer so that you can place a small diffuser or air stone inside.

I believe 100% dissolution cos no output bubbles ever noted.

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## Simon

> ----------------
> On 12/24/2001 2:39:02 AM 
> 
> I used to use diffusers, cos they look nice, except they clog up with algae and I most definitely don't think bleach belongs in an aquarium.
> 
> reactors are big, ugly and get algae infested.
> 
> I now pipe in the co2 into my eheim canister (just cut the intake strainer so that you can place a small diffuser or air stone inside.
> 
> ...


bleaching a diffuser then rinsing with anti-chlorine will do the trick

pumping c02 into a cannister will damage yr filter

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## DEA

that depends on how much co2 you're pumping into it
when you're free, give ur eheim filter a small tilt and listen
you might hear the sound of trapped air

and in the long run i think yes, it might damage your filter

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## LiquidFX

Hmm I thought we are using food grade? Because industrial may have some poisonous gases mixed inside right

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## DEA

soxal tops up industrial
your concern is valid
but the % is like 0.00x one, in practice no problem

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## loupgarou

I tilt filter and no air, no air sounds, no bubbles coming out of filter.

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## mok

soxal have different grades if i remember correctly.
think only food grade is suitable for our tanks.

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## DEA

they got all sorts of grades
but if you don't specify you'll get industrial grade

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## weileong

Simon, this one looks so new and clean mine is all brown inside with algae, sucks got to take it out for cleaning later.

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## sherchoo

> ----------------
> On 12/24/2001 12:56:45 PM 
> 
> soxal have different grades if i remember correctly.
> think only food grade is suitable for our tanks.
> ----------------


Most, if not all the co2 supplied by LFS are industrial grade co2. Should not be too worried about it.

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## Simon

> ----------------
> On 12/24/2001 5:01:53 PM 
> 
> Simon, this one looks so new and clean mine is all brown inside with algae, sucks got to take it out for cleaning later.
> ----------------


from the inside? wow!!

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## Jason_

Reactor ensures no wastage of CO2. I use 2 1.5l DIY bottle plus a cheapo made in Taiwan reactor. Works pretty well. Can also make riccia and other plants bubble by shaking the DIY bottles, the reactor will fill up will CO2 and slowly dissolves them. :Razz:

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## tawauboy

Yeah! Reactor is efficient.
Just used my diy reactor and got my fishes (6 tiger barbs) gasping for air near the surface. :Evil:  when I left CO2 bubbling overnight.
About 1bps and now have to remove CO2 4hrs before light off.

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## sherchoo

If were to shake the bottle, please be careful not to shake it too vigrously till the solution get sucked up into the tube and end up in the water. Looks quite nasty...... but I don't think will cos any poisoning though.

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## Allen_1971

> ----------------
> 
> The Dennerle Reactor does not have the problem becos it has a adjustable gap which allow trap air to escape thru it. But that also means CO2 escaping thru it. 
> ----------------



OK one difference to point out... the dennerle reactor does have a hole on the top... but you should realize a couple of differences... 

1) the hole size is adjustable... so you can decide how much air to let out
2) the cyclo reactor has small bars of plastic protruding from the top. This in my opinion is meant to help break up the CO2 into smaller bubbles. I have both the dennerle reactor and a taiwanese one. The Dennerle one never sees a layer of air trapped (only small bubbles swishing around)... the taiwan one always has it.
3) the hole in the dennerle reactor is not on the top, but some distance below the top... maybe 5mm I've monitored my reactor in the past, and the amount of air escaping is negligable... in other words, the reactor is damn efficient.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents on it... or maybe 3 cents.... 1 cent/point  :Wink:

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## LiquidFX

Actually the hole of the dennerle cyclo reactor is right at the top. Only that the vent is pointed downwards. Bubbles tend to float, so I guess having the vent pointing downwards helps to reduce the amount of air escaping.

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## vinz

Errrr... I'm probably stating the obvious here, but sometimes we don't see the obvious.

If you're using a reactor and you find that:
a. thats too much gas in your reactor, or
b. too much CO2 wasted due to escape valve/hole,
then reduce the bubble rate of your CO2.

Anyway, the reactor is supposed to contain the CO2 so that it has time to dissolve into the water. Which means that the bubble rate should be lower then when using just an airstone or diffusor which allows un-dissolved gas to escape.

Does that make sense? Just occurred to me only.

 :Wink:

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## weileong

Have you tried to reduce the CO2 injection rate?

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## vinz

I don't have to at the moment. I used to have the problem of too much gas in the reactor (cheap taiwanese one), but since I last re-setup the whole thing, I haven't had the problem.

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## LiquidFX

BTW, my yamatos go inside the reactor (dennerle cyclo 5000) to eat the algae inside.

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## sherchoo

Wah... lawrence, your yamato comand kah... go inside the reactor. Won't the yamato get CO2 poisoning.....

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## LiquidFX

Hahaha.. its still alive, a few of them would go in when the lights are on, but I guess they come out after lights off because there are usually none of them in the morning.

Yeah.. Commando Yamato Shrimps!  :Smug:

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## cheeboonyong

Hi, I am a beginner at planted tanks. Started using a cheap taiwan brand diffusor 3 months ago. Now i am having problems releasing CO2. Not too sure what the problem is. is it due to algae on the diffusor surface? But based on what i can see, there doesn't seem to have any algae. When i disconnect the bubble counter from the diffusor, i can still see the bubbles emitting from my co2 tank into the bubble counter. the moment i reconnect it, the bubbles stop. I suspect there is some pressure that is stopping the release. Please, can anyone help???

Boon Yong
[ :Embarassed: ]

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## tawauboy

are you using pressurised co2 or diy co2?

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## Simon

> ----------------
> On 1/7/2002 11:14:47 PM 
> 
> Hi, I am a beginner at planted tanks. Started using a cheap taiwan brand diffusor 3 months ago. Now i am having problems releasing CO2. Not too sure what the problem is. is it due to algae on the diffusor surface? But based on what i can see, there doesn't seem to have any algae. When i disconnect the bubble counter from the diffusor, i can still see the bubbles emitting from my co2 tank into the bubble counter. the moment i reconnect it, the bubbles stop. I suspect there is some pressure that is stopping the release. Please, can anyone help???
> 
> Boon Yong
> [] 
> ----------------


Hi Boon yong, welcome to AQ.. I presume yr bubble counter is working rite? wat kinda co2 u using? DIY or cylinder? if its DIY, then the pressure isnt enuff to push the c02 out of the ceramic plate.. if its a cylinder then u better check, pressure built up has to go somewhere, perharps there is a leak somewhere... is the surface of the ceramic still the same color as the first day u bought it?

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## cheeboonyong

> ----------------
> On 1/7/2002 11:18:56 PM 
> 
> are you using pressurised co2 or diy co2?
> ----------------


I am using pressurised co2

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## Simon

check for leakage then

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## Allen_1971

The other thing to check is where you put your one way valves. If you placed your one way valve after the bubble counter, I would suggest you check to see if you placed it in the right direction.

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## dinoegg

Thinking of trying external reactor. How much will it cost? Any recommendation?

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## Simon

> ----------------
> On 1/9/2002 5:46:15 PM 
> 
> Thinking of trying external reactor. How much will it cost? Any recommendation?
> ----------------


budget? taiwanese made is ard $15, the more branded will cost u ard $100

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## scoobydoo

Simon, where can I get the Taiwan external reactor ?

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## rthomas

> ----------------
> On 12/21/2001 11:40:46 AM 
> 
> In the case of the reactor, all the air seems to be dissolved.
> 
> So which one better? Or are they the same?
> ----------------


 Interested in an alternative? I don't use reactors, diffusers, or airstones.



I simply took the CO2 line from my DIY reactor and feed the resulting CO2 into the base of an old powerhead. The powerhead's impeller mashes the CO2 down, and the resulting bubbles are barely visible to the naked eye.

The bubbles are so small they travel throughout my tank via the eddy currents. It's not uncommon for CO2 to travel and estimated 2 - 3 feet under water.

Nice things with this:
========================
1. Cheap to build.
2. No maintenance.
I don't have to clean this setup all the time.
The algae looks ugly, but DOES NOT effect the efficiency.
3. Very efficient - bubbles travel in tanks eddy currents.
4. Controllable.
When the lights go out, the powerhead shuts down as well (via a timer).
No powerhead means CO2 does not dissolve into the tankwater at night.
This is good because at night plants take in O2 and produce CO2.

That's my 2 cents worth...

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## Simon

scooby: clementi, petmart or any lfs selling planted tank accessories shld carry it

rthomas: nice

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## weileong

> ----------------
> On 1/4/2002 12:39:43 AM 
> 
> Wah... lawrence, your yamato comand kah... go inside the reactor. Won't the yamato get CO2 poisoning..... 
> ----------------


My yamato goes into my denerrle reactor to eat the algae as well. The young mollies also goes inside too. So far no problem.

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## little bear

where to buy denerrle reactor? How much is it?

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## LiquidFX

I got it from Clementi C328.

It seems to have a fixed price of $110

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## little bear

So which one is better, cost effective. The dernerle one or ADA pollen glass?

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## Simon

reactors r more effective, but its not that great till, u can see the differences... for looks, I'll go for a diffuser (ADA)

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## peterkoh

I've using the UP 401 reactor and the bioballs have stopped spinning as CO2 fills up the space and push them downwards. I just let it remains that way as trapped CO2 slowly being dissolved by water pressure forcing upward. Why bother to remove the trapper CO2 ?

The only concern I have is waste buildup in the bioballs as I'm using a pumphead to direct the water-co2 mixture into the reactor.

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## AnA

> ----------------
> On 12/22/2001 4:30:06 PM 
> 
> er... pollen glass.. i think gen x should have... but about $100.... a reactor can be as cheap as $10....
> i like the 'up' brand turbo-jet reacotr the best... damn good... 
> 
> ----------------


I have bought the one with balls, I think it may not be the same "turbo-jet" one that you have mentioned. Is the "turbo-jet" one come with the ceramic? It this equally efficient??

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## sherchoo

Answered you on the other thread u started

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/phpbb...opic.php?t=797

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