# General > AquaTalk >  BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

## shearerkk

It came as a great disappointment and shock to me when AQ announced that the indefinite BAN on buy/sell of shrimps.... I have always regarded AQ as home to anything to do with shrimps.

Why BAN shrimps only, and not all livestocks, I really don't know, but I am in no Authority to question AQ... I just want to find out from the rest, where else can I find sale of shrimps then?

Please advise. Thanks advance for sharing.

----------


## Jimmy

wow... must have miss out a lot. luckily just sold off my CRS last week but why such simple things can made till so complex? thought willing buyer willing seller? 

anyway with such action, looks like we lost another good trading place. everything also must control. sigh... do share if there is another good place to trade, i want to know too.

----------


## alvin235800

> It came as a great disappointment and shock to me when AQ announced that the indefinite BAN on buy/sell of shrimps.... I have always regarded AQ as home to anything to do with shrimps.
> 
> Why BAN shrimps only, and not all livestocks, I really don't know, but I am in no Authority to question AQ... I just want to find out from the rest, where else can I find sale of shrimps then?
> 
> Please advise. Thanks advance for sharing.


I also feel doubt on it. Why ban shrimps only?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## seudzar

I read in one of the thread that there are some buyers who bought the shrimps from sellers and the shrimps are not the same grade as what the sellers claimed as. Maybe this is one of the cause?

----------


## Jimmy

> I read in one of the thread that there are some buyers who bought the shrimps from sellers and the shrimps are not the same grade as what the sellers claimed as. Maybe this is one of the cause?


 didn't get to read it. that's why for me i will just provide the picture of the actual shrimps that i am selling to avoid such argument. maybe the moderators may want to consider controlling it in this manner, straight forward. you buying what you see. even myself also not good in grading, so i think my buyers do get better grades with my pricing, haha... well, just want everyone to be happy keeping them.  :Smile:

----------


## Saiberg

Then in future where can i buy shrimp? Lfs? Really a disappointment....hope AQ re-allows it back... 


To Fish &amp; Beyond....

----------


## alvin235800

> didn't get to read it. that's why for me i will just provide the picture of the actual shrimps that i am selling to avoid such argument. maybe the moderators may want to consider controlling it in this manner, straight forward. you buying what you see. even myself also not good in grading, so i think my buyers do get better grades with my pricing, haha... well, just want everyone to be happy keeping them.


Agree with jimmy said! Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## reiner09

Let us be patient alright ... I believe this wouldnt be imposed for long... Else the majority that makes this forum will probably leave for another... The mods and admins do know this..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

----------


## alvin235800

> Let us be patient alright ... I believe this wouldnt be imposed for long... Else the majority that makes this forum will probably leave for another... The mods and admins do know this..
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


Any others forum for shrimp?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## reiner09

There isnt any that i know of..but i suggest we should be patient..the mods are probably still working to come up with a more perfect or rather a better solution..and that the ban will soon to be lifted..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

----------


## paladin

Hmm... wondering why AQ will be implicated when the deals between buyers and sellers turns sour?
AQ is just a platform for us to communicate for the trading right? In what way should AQ be responsible for the complaints from buyers on the seller's shrimps quality?

I don't understand...

----------


## Noobz

Really hope the moderator will come out a better solution rather than just ban of shrimps sales. There are really some good home breeder in this forum which are selling quality shrimps as compare to LFS.

----------


## paladin

> Really hope the moderator will come out a better solution rather than just ban of shrimps sales. There are really some good home breeder in this forum which are selling quality shrimps as compare to LFS.


I agreed too! Through the shrimps sales, i get to meet many shrimps masters who shared alot of knowledge and guidance with me! And i can save alot buying good quality shrimps than paying alot for poor quality shrimps in the LFS.

----------


## alvin235800

> I agreed too! Through the shrimps sales, i get to meet many shrimps masters who shared alot of knowledge and guidance with me! And i can save alot buying good quality shrimps than paying alot for poor quality shrimps in the LFS.


Very very agreed on it too. Just met one of the master. He never sell shrimp to me but is "GIVE" them to me and teach me how to let them breed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## shearerkk

Wow Alvin... got such master around town... please introduce, maybe I can visit him to get advise and 'free' shrimps too!!!





> Very very agreed on it too. Just met one of the master. He never sell shrimp to me but is "GIVE" them to me and teach me how to let them breed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## alvin235800

> Wow Alvin... got such master around town... please introduce, maybe I can visit him to get advise and 'free' shrimps too!!!


Actually I want to purchase same bkk from him but my tank just cycle for 2 weeks ++. So he give me some low grade crs to try to let them breed. He advice me to let them breed before to add in bkk. Is a really good teacher. He also teaching me for make the moss well. Now my tank have 3 snow white and about 10pcs low grade crs, and 20pcs fire red + rili.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Matt

I think the ban is to allow the moderators a peace of mind while they think out to revamp the Marketplace's structure? Just speculating...

But for the time being, perhaps the enthusiasts will just approach known home-breeders directly for sale of shrimps? And since it is out of AQ's platform, it is outright willing buyer/happy seller? Deal at your own discretion. Guess rule of thumb for higher grades of shrimps such as PRL & KK, should always be to ask for actual shrimp pics in tank? And if the pics quality are not good enough, buy only from breeders who allow you to view the shrimps from their tank? 

Just my 2 cents worth for die-hard fans of shrimps who have incurable itchy hands/fingers/pockets.  :Grin:

----------


## rascal

yeah, i think they BAN it because their are many buyers not happy with their shrimp such as coloration of shrimps and etc.BUT its not the seller fault, as Buyer should make sure their tanks are stable and all parameters are *GOOD* before buying. this will reduce the numbers of complaints!!! NOW, due to this, we can't meet other breeders and expand our shrimps to others in Singapore :Sad:

----------


## elements

When buyer wasnt happy with their purchase, this should be clarify on the spot like some mentioned many times, view before buying.
Therefore, i dont see why this AQ wants to Ban such sale!!
"*quarrelsome and contentious nature"* of the shrimp community, what's the meaning of shrimp community? The Mods have labeled we are making too many problems for the forum?
Oh my god, this is hilarious...

----------


## Mr.Oink

I would suggest AQ to create a sub category under marketplace just for shrimp or sale of more sensitive items. And warn buyer/seller to do their due diligence during the transaction and to transact at their own risk. No complaints will be entertain pertaining to sales transacted under that category or user will be BAN.

----------


## rascal

yes,, agreed with Mr Olink... and delete/give warning to people who finding faults or starting wars with other hobbyist in a thread... this people are the ones who making this hobby unhealthy!!!! This forum is to promote and expand planted/shrimp keeping in Singapore and not the opposite..i seen lots of this occurring, and i see some breeders are not active in this forum due to all this wars and shooting other people in thread. 

Having mutual respect for other hobbyist is important!!!!!

----------


## shearerkk

Second to Rascal and Mr Olink, I totally agree with them. Start another sub link in marketplace.

AQ has come so far in promoting the shrimp hobby and active sharing for so many years, it is a shame for it to take a step backward with this move.

A marketplace is a marketplace, the risk is in the buyer and seller for their own judgement call as well as individual to be responsible to do their own research before committing to any sale.

"qurrelsome and contentious" sale can happen to any products, livestocks, etc in marketplace, AQ don't have to single out Shrimps ALONE.




> yes,, agreed with Mr Olink... and delete/give warning to people who finding faults or starting wars with other hobbyist in a thread... this people are the ones who making this hobby unhealthy!!!! This forum is to promote and expand planted/shrimp keeping in Singapore and not the opposite.. having mutual respect for other hobbyist is important!!!!!

----------


## alvin235800

> Second to Rascal and Mr Olink, I totally agree with them. Start another sub link in marketplace.
> 
> AQ has come so far in promoting the shrimp hobby and active sharing for so many years, it is a shame for it to take a step backward with this move.
> 
> A marketplace is a marketplace, the risk is in the buyer and seller for their own judgement call as well as individual to be responsible to do their own research before committing to any sale.
> 
> "qurrelsome and contentious" sale can happen to any products, livestocks, etc in marketplace, AQ don't have to single out Shrimps ALONE.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## alvin235800

MOD didn't warn icemanken85 3.29pm thread!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Loudness

Agree... 

people should be given warning, once over the limit, they should be ban. rather than ban other hobbyists from selling, which is kind of unfair for everyone.
I would say warn both buyer and seller if any complain/quarrel is made/started. 

maybe set a few rules, 
like a table guide on different grade of shrimp. For example for CRS, people who are selling must follow the table for the grade. if the selling is found not following the table, should be issue with a warning. accumulating up to 3 warning should be given a ban of selling any item up to 1 month? more warning the longer you will be ban?

sellers should also have the ACTUAL picture of the shrimp that he's selling.
example a seller has 3 set of shrimps for sale. he should take a photo each for different set that he's selling instead of some random group shot, saying it's the same or similar grade. 

sellers should provide water parameter, a guide for buyers. so buyers can make sure what they're buying suit the water parameter they have. 

lastly, buyers should check before they pay the money. anything after that shouldn't be seller's responsibility.

----------


## paladin

> Actually I want to purchase same bkk from him but my tank just cycle for 2 weeks ++. So he give me some low grade crs to try to let them breed. He advice me to let them breed before to add in bkk. Is a really good teacher. He also teaching me for make the moss well. Now my tank have 3 snow white and about 10pcs low grade crs, and 20pcs fire red + rili.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wah... i want to know such masters that can guide me too... heheh

----------


## shearerkk

I don't disagree with loudness suggestion of rules and guidelines for sale of shrimps.

But I must say that those guidelines maybe too strict too.... base on the fact that LFS also don't do it.

Eg. LFS(xxxxview) :- If you have seen those crs there, and the grading of crs and fire red, I am sure those who understand the grading system would agree that it is not up to standard... but yet, they still claim to be those grade. Likewise, they don't tell you the water parameter to used.

If LFS don't have the obiligation to provide the above, then I still don't see the need for marketplace seller to do so, thus the risk is still remain with the buyer/seller.

Just my opinion.





> Agree... 
> 
> people should be given warning, once over the limit, they should be ban. rather than ban other hobbyists from selling, which is kind of unfair for everyone.
> I would say warn both buyer and seller if any complain/quarrel is made/started. 
> 
> maybe set a few rules, 
> like a table guide on different grade of shrimp. For example for CRS, people who are selling must follow the table for the grade. if the selling is found not following the table, should be issue with a warning. accumulating up to 3 warning should be given a ban of selling any item up to 1 month? more warning the longer you will be ban?
> 
> sellers should also have the ACTUAL picture of the shrimp that he's selling.
> ...

----------


## rascal

some of those big set up breeders, breeders who keep those high grade shrimps are not active anymore.. its because of this wars that started in threads.. no mutual respect among breeders.. every body, be it newbies or master in keeping shrimps have their own ways of setting up their tanks.. it unhealthy if this group of "bully" to shoot and creating wars with others!!! it happen a lot of time!!! why don't ban this "bully" from posting? 

for buyers, who purchasing king kong or wine reds!!! 

please check and ensure that all parameters are correct before buying..
most of the threads, the seller will inform that "after purchase he/she will not bare any responsibility of color fade or death" so yeah, this clearly stated that the seller is not the one at fault.
do not start telling people that the guy is cheating you(informing the names and spread to other hobbyist). Please check shrimps during transaction.

for sellers, 
Take picture of the actual shrimps for sale :Smile:  if buyer have trust of the seller than no need..

for moderators,
you guys are awesome, but i suggest to be more aggressive to this "bully". this people are the one not promoting shrimp keeping. how to produce the numbers of hobbyist or increase local market if we ourselves are fighting among oursleves.

----------


## IllusionImage

Erm...

In the first place, why ban?

----------


## rascal

> Erm...
> 
> In the first place, why ban?


One example is that buyer keep blaming and accusing seller of cheating when purchased shrimps "color fade" or death where it clearly stated that the seller will not bare any responsibility of the color and death of shrimp after transaction. this is one of the main problem i believe!

----------


## vinz

Thank you to those who are giving constructive feedback.




> MOD didn't warn icemanken85 3.29pm thread!!! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Alvin, Thank you for demonstrating EXACTLY the kind of behaviour that triggered our decision to ban shrimp sales.

----------


## Saiberg

Still hope Mod can reconsider the shrimp buy/sell UnBan...


To Fish &amp; Beyond....

----------


## shearerkk

Seem like there is not much hope of un-banning the 'sale of shrimps' in AQ......

Thus, I will be going to gumtree.sg to start sale of shrimps..... hope those keen buyers and sellers would join me there such that there can be a avenue for such sale. Hopefully gumtree would be a more neutral ground.

----------


## rascal

> Seem like there is not much hope of un-banning the 'sale of shrimps' in AQ......
> 
> Thus, I will be going to gumtree.sg to start sale of shrimps..... hope those keen buyers and sellers would join me there such that there can be a avenue for such sale. Hopefully gumtree would be a more neutral ground.


bro, most breeders now are doing their own sales with their regular customer via whatsapp or email and some will go other forum like you.. i think breeders will only comeback if moderators can solve the sales issue and bullies that LOVE to shoot other people... no offense, but 5 years back when i just started shrimp keeping, many people recommend me AQ, but now due to this people, AQ's reputation have gone down. Hope this will be resolve as soon as possible.

----------


## alvinchan80

> bro, most breeders now are doing their own sales with their regular customer via whatsapp or email and some will go other forum like you.. i think breeders will only comeback if moderators can solve the sales issue and bullies that LOVE to shoot other people... no offense, but 5 years back when i just started shrimp keeping, many people recommend me AQ, but now due to this people, AQ's reputation have gone down. Hope this will be resolve as soon as possible.


Actually I feel that AQ started this ban is not because of bullies.. All those politics and arguments are very small issues...

I believe it's because shrimps are creating more flippers in buy/sell marketplace.. Many are actually resorting to using shrimps to earn money instead of just enjoying the hobby..

No doubt shrimps keeping or breeding can cover some expenses or even earn some money, but it has made AQ platform to be a money churning place and also might be causing some issues with undercutting prices of LFS for shrimps...

Let's give AQ and all the fellow mods some time to resolve this issue.. 

Unless you guys are selling shrimps, if not, there shouldn't be any issue.. Just enjoy this hobby..

Happy shrimping..

----------


## avex30

Bullies?? That love to shoot people? Who are the ones? Frankly breeder I don't see any but genuine seller that need to offload due to bio maybe. Reseller and flipper I seen many! That where conflict starts it is not about the drop of colors etc. Go dig if those sales posts is still around why are the clause there why did this people put self breed when they actually flown them in or got people to hand carry in than resell to make a quick bucks. 

Yep I agree some do post and stir crap but I also see some of this so call bullies pointing out to some people pointing the direction left & right except to the right direction.

----------


## rascal

hmm ok... just my point of view, thanks :Smile:  small issue may sometime lead to big issue!!

----------


## Matt

Guy, looking from a different perspective, I think the BAN only affects a handful of active sellers/resellers or whatever you call them to be. The rest of the fellow "shrimpers" who just enjoy the hobby as it is, I guess, are not very much affected at all. Just need to make a "detour" to find the shrimps that you like to keep? Either from LFS, online merchants or to contact the breeder/seller directly?

Let's not kick up a fuss with this little inconvenience? Let the Mods do their job and revamp the marketplace in the meantime? 

Cheers!!  :Smile:

----------


## Yulbrainer

I agree with Mod to revamp the market place system, not to ban it (especially forever).
Maybe Mod can have similiar system like approved merchant where individual shrimp seller have to get approval from Mod (with fee off course, for Mod to make a verification) to be able to post on special Shrimp selling thread.

For buyer: please make sure you check on the feedback score of the seller, that is the minimum thing you can do to tell if the seller is trustable.

Happy shrimping guys  :Smile:

----------


## VSGenesis

Just my personal opinion on this ban. You may by all means disagree with me. 

I am more into aquascapping, planted tanks, keeping tropical fish and breeding guppies. When I first join AQ, one of the first impression I got within one week was that shrimp keepers always quarrel a lot. Both on their experiences and knowledge they have. I ask this question to a fellow "veteran" and he concurs. I am not saying all but that was the impression I got.

Hence, instead of wanting to know more of shrimp keeping, I stayed away. As I felt some "Gurus" in the shrimp hobby always quarrel, responding that others are wrong they are right. So as a newbie, I have no idea what's right? I can understand the incredible passion one has for their hobby but the forum is made available for one purpose and that is to share information and not to shoot down others that may not agree. You don't shoot others if you think they made a mistake. There are other better ways. It is their right to their own opinion whether right or wrong but it does not give one the right to be rude and shoot them down. 

Again, just to make certain that I am not against shrimps, I've spoken to other shrimpkeepers in the past and definitely there are some nice folks there. Eventually, it was not the forum that got me entice to keep shrimps, it was fellow friends I know from here...of course not those crazy $$$ kind. They are out of my league and knowledge.

AQ requirement from its fellow members are pretty minimal. You don't have to participate, they didn't force you to buy their shirt in order for you to be able to buy/sell or even post. AQ from my observation has no sponsorship. Hence, to keep the server running, someone's hard earn money is paying for it. I may be wrong but that's my observation. It boils down to his/her decision on the path to take in this forum.

People say that this will drive shrimp keepers away?
Ahem...1) it's the buy and sell section only. Get to know a shrimpkeeper and be friends. Share. Drink kopi. And then find out if he or she is selling. You grow trust in each other. Become more knowledgeable. I rather be doing this than go to buy/sell section if I am looking for breeds.
2) Just because the buy/sell section is now ban for shrimps, members move away? Err...what other forum? Oh unless you don't mind participating in their events. My apologies if I am being rude here.

Having moderators to monitor the bad eggs in buy and sell is a hassle when it happens frequently. They don't get paid, I'm sure. So if we were to put ourselves in their shoes, I can understand the ban. 

It may be a cooling off thing while they decide on what should be done or the ban be permanent. Either way, its their decision. One should respect that.

Again my apologies. My post is not to attack shrimpkeepers. It is based on my observation in my journey here. I know myself there are good folks out there who are passionate about shrimps and they are really nice people willing to share.

PS: OT a bit, to all Muslim members here; both local or our friends from overseas, Selamat Hari Raya. =P

----------


## VSGenesis

Oh I forgot.
1) have a category titled shrimp in Buy/Sell. 
2) all sellers must provide updated/current pictures of the stock
3) buyers better go do their research; bring a friend who is experienced
4) AQ will not be held responsible nor will it be investigated for any dispute. Go to case, find an unbias mediator, police or find mommy.
5) Buyers are encouraged to give feedback to build up credibility of seller
6) Rude post will be removed
7) Sellers with bad feedback score to ban from posting in Buy/Sell


Buy/Sell...what's so complicated? 
Sellers, be honest or you lose credibility; people won't buy from you in future. Buyers, do research and open eyes big big.


But how do you avoid mass seller? A person who buys in large quantity and then try to sell it off for a quick profit? 


Aiyah, I still think, if we guys are looking for breeders to sell their stock, why don't we make friends in real life. Isn't it better that way? Make friends, learn from each other, sell/trade with each other? I find it enjoyable going out for coffee and talking about stuffs. I don't know about other LFS but I think one or two lfs are not bad right? But if you trust more with breeder than go make friends with breeder. "Lim kopi ah mai?"

If I am naive, forgive me. It is just an opinion. Cheers people!

----------


## Draka

Haha was going to post something similar to VSGenesis, but I thought to myself, why open myself to arrows? I fully concur with what you say bro, when I first started out in shrimping the only thing I learnt in the first few weeks is that discussion in the Invertebrates Section is unique. It appeared that those who got more friends concurring with them and has the "loudest voice" get to be "correct", not to mention the witch-hunts we had going for a while. Frankly, it's quite understandable that the mods are banning it at least temporarily, since they have all these extra things to deal with when they don't even get paid. And for those forumers who think of moving away due to the unavailability of shrimp, well to put it bluntly, forums like these do not need people who exist only to sell/purchase livestock.

----------


## VSGenesis

Haha. I post knowing I would be condemn by certain section of our community but heck. 

*And for those forumers who think of moving away due to the unavailability of shrimp, well to put it bluntly, forums like these do not need people who exist only to sell/purchase livestock.* <- Exactly Draka.

Another suggestion to deter "flippers"
Credible Breeder register with AQ. (Create an application template or sorts- data remain confidential and only owner of AQ allowed to view should the content be sensitive) Approve or not, notification will be send to recepient. Not approve; AQ is not obligated to say why. Not approve suck thumb, go ebay.
Approved breeder will be allowed to post.
Application to last for 12 months and will need to reapply.
AQ can set a cap yearly of how many breeder is registered or not at all.
Breeder caught for selling for others; refer to terms of condition. 
How to start and know who these breeders are, they can apply first. Then a Thread open for people to vote once for these breeders. The number of votes will determine whether that breeder has some credibility. Members who can vote are those who meets certain criteria. Or the list of applicants can basically be decided by the collective vote of the moderators.

Those whos application are not approve; any post of whining why application was not approved to be deleted and will not be considered in the next year application.

Am I putting more crap into an already crappy pot? Hehe. Just a suggestion. Deter "flippers", possibly? But not 100% full proof but its something. Think the problem not only lies in the quarrel but folks who abuse the buy/sell section. There's no need to be unhappy about the ban. No one is forcing nor are we paying. There's always ebay and some other website where they facilitate buy/sell. Heck go put on GMarket "lah" Hehe.

PS: I don't get paid for posting this either.

----------


## xXXXx13

::smt041:  well said Draka. Supported  ::smt041:

----------


## wongce

VSgenesis, draka... constructive comments!! ... LIKE + 1

IMHO, we should respect the decision of AQ's owner...no point argueing about it as decision is made. Aq is not a profitable organization,thus there is no resources to monitor all the suspicious sales, complains, flippers etc. Thus, the easiest way out is ban it. 

Lets keep AQ a knowledge sharing platform, by hobbyist..for hobbyist...

Sellers just have to find other selling platforms as per mentioned earlier...

----------


## Shrimperax

Hi. I am new here, however knowing of this situation i have decided to set up a temporary sales channel for the innocent hobbyist that are being embroiled in this issue. I know some of you might disagree with my methods but i believe in a hobby ,any kind of restrictions still do impede the spread of this hobby. By having a blanket ban is definitely not the best way to solve the problem.Although it will help to prevent flippers but it also makes things difficult for the other rules abiding hobbyist- sellers/ buyers.

The blog i set up as a temporary sales channel is **** ,fellow hobbyist can feel free to use it to pitch your sales,but do abide by the rules i set there.

I respect AQ's owner decision on this and i will not argue about it but rather i will do something that will benefit other hobbyist that are innocently embroiled into this.

----------


## seudzar

The complaint of shrimps matter must be very serious till AQ resort of banning. Why not provide more solutions and methods for AQ so that the ban will be lift off soon and the buying and selling become more transparent so that AQ will not get into trouble if the deals gets sour. 

Lets hope this problem solve ASAP....

----------


## Saiberg

> Hi. I am new here, however knowing of this situation i have decided to set up a temporary sales channel for the innocent hobbyist that are being embroiled in this issue. I know some of you might disagree with my methods but i believe in a hobby ,any kind of restrictions still do impede the spread of this hobby. By having a blanket ban is definitely not the best way to solve the problem.Although it will help to prevent flippers but it also makes things difficult for the other rules abiding hobbyist- sellers/ buyers.
> 
> The blog i set up as a temporary sales channel is ****** ,fellow hobbyist can feel free to use it to pitch your sales,but do abide by the rules i set there.
> 
> I respect AQ's owner decision on this and i will not argue about it but rather i will do something that will benefit other hobbyist that are innocently embroiled into this.


Thats a good idea... For a start.. Hope the rest would put their ad there..


To Fish &amp; Beyond....

----------


## rascal

agree with Shrimperax.. nice!!!!!

----------


## shearerkk

Thanks Shrimperax.. will definitely check it out.  :Smile:

----------


## elements

nice work, Shrimperax

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

I am not a shrimp keeper but I do understand that having to do without a Buy/Sell section to clear shrimps can be difficult for some. I also think that Shrimperax's proactive attitude rather than just complaining is commendable. 

But what happens when a dispute over a deal on your blog happens? Who will settle it? Will they bring the arguments/namecallings back onto AQ? Would that then defeat the purpose of the ban?

Just my 2 cents opinion.

----------


## IllusionImage

> One example is that buyer keep blaming and accusing seller of cheating when purchased shrimps "color fade" or death where it clearly stated that the seller will not bare any responsibility of the color and death of shrimp after transaction. this is one of the main problem i believe!


Thanks rascal for the explanation.

----------


## vinz

Hi all,

Thank you for your views. *Just a friendly reminder to remain civil and do not let this discussion deteriorate into a war of words.* It will be ironic if that happens.

While we are not responding actively, we are listening to this discussion.

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

> Honestly speaking.. why should any kind of platform be responsible for any disputes arising from the deal. It is should in the case of ' WILLING BUYER ,WILLING SELLER'. All the buyer needs to do is to open his eyes big enough to discern what is good and what is bad, What can be bought and what cannot be. In the case if you already paid for the goods after viewing it then there shouldn't be any disputes that will arise from it because if anything goes wrong it is your own fault for not being meticulous enough . Now to the 'IF' question, IF they are to bring any kind of disputes back to the platform, the moderators can simply give them a warning / ban / disallow their postings, it is as simple as that. The people in conflict should know who's turf they are stepping on, should they go against any of the rules which disrupts the peace in the community, they WILL be restricted. The next thing i am going to say is that, if you want to prevent disputes , this forum might as well shut down the whole marketplace. Why? It is because every deal has the potential to result in disputes, the proportion of shrimp related disputes are in greater numbers because of the larger community of shrimp hobbyist we have in this forum-(simply has to do with proportion). 
> I personally believe the purpose of this ban is to allow a sort of a 'cooldown' time , a time whereby admin and mods can re-write/re-think over certain rules, making it more stringent to prevent the abuse/circumvention of it. 
> BUT if this ban is purely just to prevent that ' contentious-ness / quarrelsome-ness ' , I am sorry to say but this is simply JUST the easy way out, little thought must have gone into it prior to implementing it.


I'm not for or against the ban on sales of shrimps. But if its simply a case of willing buyer willing seller, the ban would not have been imposed. And the ban is exactly to prevent the need to give warnings or ban forumners. I think shrimp sales have the highest rate of disputes because of the grading and the large amount of cash involved. And if the ban is to allow for a cooldown period, then a sale blog would be bridging the cooldown period. 
I know that my postings might have stepped on the toes of many a shrimp keeper but these are just my humble opinions and I hope that none of you would take offense.

----------


## vinz

The argumentative posts by Shrimperax and related posts have been archived to keep this thread clean and allow the original discussion to continue.

There are comments for and against the decision to ban shrimp sales, and we value all the feedback. Although we don't agree to all of them, they do give us insights. Let's keep it civil and avoid personal attacks.

Thank you.

----------


## VSGenesis

Now back to topic and suggestions.

The itrader is a good initiative but I believe it's under utilize. It should be encourage further. It'll be good if every buyer can give the feedback once sales has been concluded. And even when things goes wrong but was resolve privately, this should be place into feedback. This builds up credibility of the seller and also the buyer. But this will need all hobbyist help to make it work. A fellow hobbyist might want to even give a short story or what I will call a RTS or rate the service. Give a bit of recognition to some of our passionate hobbyists.

Buy/Sell should not be use as a platfom to make a profit. It should be use to offload used items or excess fauna and sold as used pricing or below retail. This allows and encourages new hobbyist who are low on budget to start. 

However, there are some of us who are passionate in breeding. Eg. Shrimps and Guppies. these are people who have spend loads of time, effort and money on this hobby. We should recognise this people as breeders. They would always have excess stocks they want to offload. To sell or give. It's hard to define if a hobbyist putting up a sale a real breeder or just someone who flips. (Buy from somewhere cheap and sell them for profit) I can understand some breeders will sell their stock above retail. This is understandable being that they have put so much effort in breeding them. I will not argue with that. So whether they are selling below market or higher, its entirely up to them. Buyers are responsible to research, check etc. Once the exchange is made; deal is done. Both Seller and Buyer is responsible to resolve their own dispute privately. 

Just a suggestion, 
- increase the criteria for someone to post sales. this will slightly deter mass sellers (who are flipping)
- a seller can only put up 1 post to sell. seller can only post new sales after 30 days. 
- for hobbyist who have registered themselves as breeder, can post up to 2 and must wait for another 30 days to post new sales.
- seller must post current pictures of the item sold or else the sale will not be posted. 
- seller is responsible to provide specific detail of the item
- seller must display their mobile number. Seller can demand that they be sms/whatapps or call. 
- "Breeders" must register themselves. Breeders are passionate hobbyist who breed their shrimps, guppy etc from home. they give or sell their fauna. If they sell, they may sell below, retail or above market price. 
- To be a breeder, they must register. The criteria to be a breeder will be more stringent. For starters, as I mentioned earlier, they can register first. Mods discuss and decide to approve or not. Or a thread for vote.
- AQ can set a cap for a number of breeders per year. 
- application is for 12 months and must be reapplied.
- Members who abuse; accusing the seller of something without proof will be banned from Sales. If Seller retaliate, same banned for seller. There's no need for any party to argue to say I'm right you're wrong. Again dispute must be taken outside of the forum. AQ is not a mediator and not oblige to investigate and give their judgment.

In other forums I know of, they divide Seller into two kinds. Non Commercial Ad and Commercial Ad. Non Commercial Ad is define as used, hand me down, opened or 2nd hand item. While Commercial Ad are unused and sold for profit. They charge members who uses Commercial Ad. However, this forum was created with no thought of monetary gain. By Hobbyist For Hobbyists right? Haha. Its easier for them as the product are non living. 

Selling life things are different. It is the responsibility of the buyer and seller on the transaction. Try going to LFS. Buy some fauna. Bring home, one fish die. Do you go back to the store and ask back for refund? It is a living thing. Buyer check the fauna closely. Don't rush it. You're not sure what you are doing, get a friend who is experience to come along. AQ only provide the platform and in no way responsible for any dispute that may arise. AQ shouldn't even bother to investigate, eventhough its noble act. Dispute between seller and Buyer should be done privately. If it cannot be resolve, find a mediator; unbias to help come to a compromise. Should it not; one can pursuit the matter and bring it up to case. Members who feel "cheated" should not post or whine in AQ. Be a better person, learn from it and move on. Any such post, AQ to bring it down immediately.

The Buy/Sell is a simple platform provided to us. Let's use it as what the owner intended it to be in the first place. AQ is non profitable. The mods don't get paid. They can't be in here all the time. They are merely doing this for the passion and selected to be one. I'm very sure the owner have their own reason in selecting the mods base on whatever merit they're looking for. They are here to help. We're shouldnt be going against them or the people running AQ. They are not the enemy. We're here together to make AQ a place where we can share our hobby and learn. They are trying to make things better for everyone. Sadly, regardless of any forum you go to, there will always be a few bad apples. Hence, it is our responsbility to keep it "clean". As one mentioned, it doesn't cost a thing to swallow a humble pie.  :Smile:

----------


## paladin

> When buyer wasnt happy with their purchase, this should be clarify on the spot like some mentioned many times, view before buying.
> Therefore, i dont see why this AQ wants to Ban such sale!!
> "*quarrelsome and contentious nature"* of the shrimp community, what's the meaning of shrimp community? The Mods have labeled we are making too many problems for the forum?
> Oh my god, this is hilarious...


Agree! Its totally absurb!

----------


## beetlejuice403

Much agree with you bro,

many a times as a seller (I don't view myself as a breeder, but simply to ease the bioload in my tank should the livestocks breed excessively to fellow hobbyists), I'll follow-up with the buyers (some kind ones update me with the status of the live stocks on their own  :Smile: ) on the status. Am saddened at times when some told me they suffered some casualties (due to improperly cycled tanks), so normally I'll do "background checks" on especially new hobbyists if their tanks are cycled & ready to introduce any livestocks... [Sorry to those bros whom bought from me previously if you found me 'naggy'...]. & my style is to always let the buyer have a physical look at & check the 'goods' even before I conclude the deal (so buyers always have a choice to 'reject' the deal with reasonable reasons if there was any misfit.)

Guess when you sell your stuffs with proper due care & diligence & honesty, people whom'd bought from you previously will know & appreciate it (I'd got people whom were referred by my previous buyers and bought from me also...) Unless one just intend to do a 'one-time' business and risk smearing one's own reputation, if not, it's surely not worth it in my opinion... So I always make it a point to rate my buyers on iTrader after the deal (although sadly some don't reciprocate for whatever reasons...) 

Was rather shocked & saddened with the recent ban on shrimps sale also... As adults (or maybe to some new young hobbyists), I guess we should have the maturity and sensibility to deal appropriately should anything goes wrong during a deal. Hopefully the ban gets lifted soon so that genuine hobbyists can share this wonderful hobby again like before.

AQ United!!




> Now back to topic and suggestions.
> 
> The itrader is a good initiative but I believe it's under utilize. It should be encourage further. It'll be good if every buyer can give the feedback once sales has been concluded. And even when things goes wrong but was resolve privately, this should be place into feedback. This builds up credibility of the seller and also the buyer. But this will need all hobbyist help to make it work. A fellow hobbyist might want to even give a short story or what I will call a RTS or rate the service. Give a bit of recognition to some of our passionate hobbyists.
> 
> Buy/Sell should not be use as a platfom to make a profit. It should be use to offload used items or excess fauna and sold as used pricing or below retail. This allows and encourages new hobbyist who are low on budget to start. 
> 
> However, there are some of us who are passionate in breeding. Eg. Shrimps and Guppies. these are people who have spend loads of time, effort and money on this hobby. We should recognise this people as breeders. They would always have excess stocks they want to offload. To sell or give. It's hard to define if a hobbyist putting up a sale a real breeder or just someone who flips. (Buy from somewhere cheap and sell them for profit) I can understand some breeders will sell their stock above retail. This is understandable being that they have put so much effort in breeding them. I will not argue with that. So whether they are selling below market or higher, its entirely up to them. Buyers are responsible to research, check etc. Once the exchange is made; deal is done. Both Seller and Buyer is responsible to resolve their own dispute privately. 
> 
> Just a suggestion, 
> ...

----------


## hardric

> Agree! Its totally absurb!


Actually, it's totally absurd that you spell it 'absurb'!

A forum that is free withdraws some of their 'services' and its members who joined free of charge calls their actions 'absurb' and 'hilarious'. Any constructive suggestions?

Anyway, I second VSGenesis. Once, I sold something I had spare and I asked the buyer to do the iTrader thing. He said ok, but nothing was given. He never came back to say what I sold him was not good or bad. AQ should not be the 'judge' but just a platform. Sellers who consistently sell good things should be given itrader points so that buyers can know who are the good sellers or bad sellers.

----------


## paladin

> Actually, it's totally absurd that you spell it 'absurb'!
> 
> A forum that is free withdraws some of their 'services' and its members who joined free of charge calls their actions 'absurb' and 'hilarious'. Any constructive suggestions?
> 
> Anyway, I second VSGenesis. Once, I sold something I had spare and I asked the buyer to do the iTrader thing. He said ok, but nothing was given. He never came back to say what I sold him was not good or bad. AQ should not be the 'judge' but just a platform. Sellers who consistently sell good things should be given itrader points so that buyers can know who are the good sellers or bad sellers.


Thank you for correcting my spelling mistakes. Spelling errors happends.

No doubt the forum is free, it should not simply "withdraw" their services just because of some bad eggs. And hardric, AQ has not fully withdrawn from the sales of shrimps as yet, until further announcements.

Shouldn't AQ caters to the majority public? Why would there be such decision affecting the majority where only the minority complaints? Is banning of shrimps sales a better solution? Or its the easiest way out to problems resolutions?

The Buy / Sell thread does not only deal with shrimps but other equipments and lifestocks as well. By banning the sales of shrimps, is AQ trying to portray that incidents on buying promised quality stocks but given inferior stocks will not happend to other lifestocks? Isn't this discriminating to shrimps only?

Whats your constructive suggestions then, hardric?

----------


## VSGenesis

Err...it happened again. 

Anyway, it is within their rights to do so. They are the owner. Even if they shut down the whole Buy/Sell, it is their wish. We can complain and talk about it but we can't do anything about it, can we? But AQ is not like that. Let's try to put ourselves in their shoes a bit.

What they have decided is to ban temporarily while they look into the matter. It is because of some bad eggs putting chewing gum on the lift and mrt door that caused the system to breakdown. Hence a quick solution is to ban. We might not like it but it's for the better.

So instead of asking why, let's talk/discuss about how do we overcome this. What constructive suggestions can we give so that everyone benefits and deter such problems from happening.

----------


## paladin

The itrader initiative by AQ is already a good tool to stop these nonsenses from problematic sales. And we are encouraged to leave a rating as a buyer to the seller. 
But how often do members buyer here really uses it? Be it giving / selling, the recipients does not show interest in this.

And the basic law of purchase applies that when you're buying from an unknown source. It is your own responsiblity to verify, do your homework or see the goods before buying. No use crying over spilt milk. So, what more can AQ do to overcome this? They cannot cater / manage to all unforseen problems, can they? If the amount involved is huge, there are channels like Small Claim Tribunals or CASE that has the profession to handle these unpleasant cases. Not up to AQ to handle right?

AQ should not derail from their main intention of setting this forum; to encourage and provide a place for aquatic information sharing, not to give up the whole forest just because of a tree. Correct me if i'm wrong but this is my own opinion.

----------


## Spid

I posted here is to state my views as a AQ forumer for the past 6years. 

As a shrimp hobbyist in AQ, I would say its quite a disappointment to see the ban on sale of shrimps. I guess it will somewhat dampen the spirit of shrimp keeping here in this forum. 

Why do I say that?- Simply because sale of livestocks is a form of interaction between sellers and buyers. Its also the time where sellers able to share his experience with the buyers. And it is of course this type of interaction that keep this hobby going. I myself am sharing a lot of my experience in terms of shrimp keeping with most of people that bought shrimps from me, and most of them do contact me for help even after some time. Imagine if there is no one to guide a newbie or inexperieced shrimp keepers, lesser and lesser people will take up this hobby and eventually they will give up. 

I have been through discus keeping as well and have seen ups and downs of few forums here in Singapore. I came to a conclusion that if a forum do not have active buyers and sellers, more than often the forum will get quieter and quieter. Well you can say AQ is not only a place for shrimp keepers. Theres are many species of fishes and crustaseans as well. But then from what I have read and realised these years is that more and more shrimp keepers are around this forum and some of whom do have been actively participating in shrimp discussions. 

I do realise yes indeed the nature of this hobby is quarrelsome due to mockings here and there. But do keep this in mind, every hobby had their good and dark side. 

I respect whatever decisions made by the AQ team, hope AQ team do see my feedback as constructive.

Thank you.

----------


## jwuog

I think there's a common misperception that the shrimp keeping community is the majority public, a vocal lot maybe, but majority unlikely. I had joined AQ since 2006, been reading it probably 1 year + before joining, before the advent of PRL line, BKK, KK etc, and AQ had already been a vibrant and friendly forum.

A forum is first and foremost a platform to exchange ideas, discuss areas of individual passions, banter about common interests etc. And as additional convenience to facilitate the hobby, a trading place as a privilege, not an entitlement.

Alas there's no panacea to solve what the mods face ( I am guessing complaints, flaming, one-upmanship etc) though VSGensis had some good suggestions. Unfortunately sometimes one has to make a hard decision for the greater good of the whole. Let the hobbyists who want to trade in shrimps, contact each other privately, out of the AQ platform. You will think in that case only mutual acquaintance and friends will deal with each other  that will solve the problem as friends don't flame/cheat friends. Any discord, let friends deal with friends. AQ washes its hands off all the unpleasant business.

Will AQ 'die-off' as a result? I am betting no as it has been around long before selective breeding of CRS gave rise to multitude 'lines' of shrimp. Quieter? Maybe.

----------


## hardric

> Thank you for correcting my spelling mistakes. Spelling errors happends.
> 
> No doubt the forum is free, it should not simply "withdraw" their services just because of some bad eggs. And hardric, AQ has not fully withdrawn from the sales of shrimps as yet, until further announcements.
> 
> Shouldn't AQ caters to the majority public? Why would there be such decision affecting the majority where only the minority complaints? Is banning of shrimps sales a better solution? Or its the easiest way out to problems resolutions?
> 
> The Buy / Sell thread does not only deal with shrimps but other equipments and lifestocks as well. By banning the sales of shrimps, is AQ trying to portray that incidents on buying promised quality stocks but given inferior stocks will not happend to other lifestocks? Isn't this discriminating to shrimps only?
> 
> Whats your constructive suggestions then, hardric?


Yes, spelling errors happen.

I already said my piece, if you read my post.

I say and will say again. Any forum owner has the right to do whatever they wish to do. They don't owe us a living. They don't owe us anything. We might not like it, but we have to live with it. Try to help to solve the problem.

----------


## vinz

* Throw a pail full of old aquarium water, complete with siphoned detritus to cool things down *  :Opps: 

Hi guys, thank you for the feedback. Another reminder to keep cool, ok? Let's not go off-topic. Remember the topic is AQ's decision to temporarily ban shrimp sales. Not each others posting styles, etc.  :Smile:

----------


## paladin

> I think there's a common misperception that the shrimp keeping community is the majority public, a vocal lot maybe, but majority unlikely. I had joined AQ since 2006, been reading it probably 1 year + before joining, before the advent of PRL line, BKK, KK etc, and AQ had already been a vibrant and friendly forum.
> 
> A forum is first and foremost a platform to exchange ideas, discuss areas of individual passions, banter about common interests etc. And as additional convenience to facilitate the hobby, a trading place as a privilege, not an entitlement.
> 
> Alas there's no panacea to solve what the mods face ( I am guessing complaints, flaming, one-upmanship etc) though VSGensis had some good suggestions. Unfortunately sometimes one has to make a hard decision for the greater good of the whole. Let the hobbyists who want to trade in shrimps, contact each other privately, out of the AQ platform. You will think in that case only mutual acquaintance and friends will deal with each other – that will solve the problem as friends don't flame/cheat friends. Any discord, let friends deal with friends. AQ washes its hands off all the unpleasant business.
> 
> Will AQ 'die-off' as a result? I am betting no as it has been around long before selective breeding of CRS gave rise to multitude 'lines' of shrimp. Quieter? Maybe.


Hi jwuog,

Sorry, i failed to clarify what i meant by majority public. It is the majority of shrimp keepers. And i should not use the big term "public". Sorry for the disclarity.

What i'm trying to say is that, hoping AQ would not completely ban the sales of shrimps just because of some bad experiences with the buyers and sellers. Because, there are many other good shrimps sales that went through without any complaints. And i'm sure these deals are far more than those unhappy ones.

Banning the sales of shrimps in AQ closes a channel for shrimps hobbist. The shrimp hobbist will be depraved of chances to experience with many shrimps types and species, locally. And the knowledge channel on shrimps will gradually reduced. Certain shrimps, i can say, cannot be bought off the shelfs from the LFS. Even if so, we would purchase from them at a very high price but poor quality. And of course, i doubt the LFS owner is able to guide you how to breed the shrimps. As far as i know, some LFS owner don't even know what shrimps they are selling!

Only through the forums, either the marketing or knowledge sharing thread, then we get to hit many birds with one stone. 
(1) Make new friends, 
(2) Acquire multiple domain of knowledge, 
(3) Lower purchase price to keep this hobby going, [Some hobbist are still studying, they might not have the buying power to pursue their hobby]
(4) Sometimes you might even get free shrimps to try breeding, and expand the shrimps breeding community! 
(5) And so on....

As for actions that AQ has to take, i would not comment much because there are lots of ways to handle this small incident. Ultimately, it is still the owner's decision. And for what ever path the owner has chosen, he should be prepared for any consequences that comes along with it.

----------


## paladin

> * Throw a pail full of old aquarium water, complete with siphoned detritus to cool things down * 
> 
> Hi guys, thank you for the feedback. Another reminder to keep cool, ok? Let's not go off-topic. Remember the topic is AQ's decision to temporarily ban shrimp sales. Not each others posting styles, etc.


Haha... ya, i'm cool.
By the way, the title of the thread is "Ban of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??" The topic is more like asking for alternative shrimps sales site. Are we already side tracked in the very first place?  :Wink:

----------


## EvolutionZ

it seems the whole thing starts because of high grade CRS/BDS losing color/dieing/grade not as expected when a customer bought from a seller and that causes many disputes. why not allow the sale of Cherry, sakura, tiger, yamato, malayan, sulawesi and other non-graded or not high graded shrimp? sakura may be graded so that could be out of the scheme..

----------


## shearerkk

Hi paladin,

Yes... I agree that the topic since abit side tracked... and yes I know even if anyknow know of any site(s), they will not be able to post it to link it...

All I can say is that at that point of time, I am desperate... I do have shrimps of more than 1 type to off load.. and now I cannot do so... and the popluation will grow and grow and grow.. and then what?!.. lelong? Maybe I will...... I don't sell to make profit.. that cannot cover my cost... it is a way for me to introduce shrimp hobby to others by off-loading my shrimps, and share my experience. Some buyers had even visit my tanks to look see look see. I am not one of 'them' (problem seller)

All I can say know is that if anyone know, in relating to the topic, PM me... so I can check it out for myself. Thanks!!





> Haha... ya, i'm cool.
> By the way, the title of the thread is "Ban of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??" The topic is more like asking for alternative shrimps sales site. Are we already side tracked in the very first place?

----------


## icefire

> Hi paladin,
> 
> Yes... I agree that the topic since abit side tracked... and yes I know even if anyknow know of any site(s), they will not be able to post it to link it...
> 
> All I can say is that at that point of time, I am desperate... I do have shrimps of more than 1 type to off load.. and now I cannot do so... and the popluation will grow and grow and grow.. and then what?!.. lelong? Maybe I will...... I don't sell to make profit.. that cannot cover my cost... it is a way for me to introduce shrimp hobby to others by off-loading my shrimps, and share my experience. Some buyers had even visit my tanks to look see look see. I am not one of 'them' (problem seller)
> 
> All I can say know is that if anyone know, in relating to the topic, PM me... so I can check it out for myself. Thanks!!


try LFS to offload shrimps if you said that you have quite a few pieces and species to offload and that don't sell to make profit and cannot cover your cost. 


Sorry vinz, 
I don't have much to contribute as i'm still in the midst of setting up a shrimp tank after stopping for nearly hmm 2 years?  :Sad: . However here is a solution that i think its feasible to shrimp breeders. Try offloading to LFS that sell shrimps. They may take in at lower prices or even low-ball you but this is at least better than your so called "increasing bioload"/"offload" due to shrimps forever breeding. However i would like to ask. How would you calculate increase in bioload when shrimps are so small in a 1-2ft tank and you have moss/plants to remove nitrates... For monster fishes i can understand but for shrimps/small fishes i cant... Will someone kindly point me in the right direction? :Confused: . For those who got offended by this solution think hard about how many times per month/per week do you sell your shrimps to "lower your bioload" and that whether you are promoting this hobby or trying to make a profit out of it.

Best Regards, 
YC

----------


## VSGenesis

IMG_6690.JPG

Just for laughs to lighten the mood.  :Grin:

----------


## 1112

up here ^ is a good one.  :Well done: 

Since we are still in ban mode, i can see some "bioload off-loader" may be panic and think of the future direction. traders may think of other options... sorry if offended.

i suggest AQ to open up the sell or trade in seasonal, once or twice a year, just for the purpose of off-load. may be traders can ride on that but surely defeat the trading purpose seeing only twice annually ... we know our local market well so the demand is limit/so call not overwhelmed, so once the sell season open up, there will be tones of supply flood the market. good thing is:

1) price will be cheap... because supply over demand... good for offloader as well for hobblist..... traders can grab the oportunity as well but good luck.. see no.2 below

2) sellers and buyers are allow to communicate, or networking outside AQ (even after sell season).... reason: for off-season sell... in this case seller in order to get continuous business will start to give quality supply and good service after sell.... or risk losing client in future... have to wait for next selling season. 

3) Admin need to determine the time between the sell seasons right (seasonal harvest period?) and announce sometime (let admin decide, see next) before sell season open. this is the key!!

4)Notification send to all AQ member. (Well, good news for off-loader ( just wait) and buyer ( may be prepare tank and space), and a so so news for trader if the notification is such short period of time and have no time to prepare stock (import?...but the competition is off-loader..remember). the notification time suggested "normal tank cycle time" so that buyer can have enough preparation.) 

Cheers.

----------


## 1112

cont' above

5) admin must remove all the post after seasonal sales. Post format should be structured with picture, sell remark, price and contact number only, thread will not show member's profile. no reply to post or pm allowed. buyers can only call seller for arrangement. contacts is only be personal. so all sellers are equal, mod and admin job is minimum. advice to keep all contacts for off-season sell, for continuous buying or offloading.

----------


## ZackZhou

Hi mods:

Please allow Giving FOC shrimps away. It does not involve in any of the problems mentioned. Thanks.

----------


## jhseah

> it seems the whole thing starts because of high grade CRS/BDS losing color/dieing/grade not as expected when a customer bought from a seller and that causes many disputes. why not allow the sale of Cherry, sakura, tiger, yamato, malayan, sulawesi and other non-graded or not high graded shrimp? sakura may be graded so that could be out of the scheme..


 Good suggestion

----------


## icefire

> Hi mods:
> 
> Please allow Giving FOC shrimps away. It does not involve in any of the problems mentioned. Thanks.


good suggestion  :Smile:

----------


## shearerkk

Thanks to a few brothers here who PM me directly regarding the shrimps.... appreciate it.

----------


## newlife

> Hi mods:
> 
> Please allow Giving FOC shrimps away. It does not involve in any of the problems mentioned. Thanks.


Power...
Good idea....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## zyblack

Anywhere else that still allows buy/sell of shrimps beyond AQ and AroFanatics? Would love the information so I will appreciate if anyone pm me about it.

----------


## newlife

> Anywhere else that still allows buy/sell of shrimps beyond AQ and AroFanatics? Would love the information so I will appreciate if anyone pm me about it.


Local forum I guess should be AQ,AF and Fish Time

But AQ is more popular in shrimp community....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## zyblack

> Local forum I guess should be AQ,AF and Fish Time
> 
> But AQ is more popular in shrimp community....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the info! Looking to sell shrimps (yes I am selling shrimps for profits...evil me..) and can't do it in AQ and AF anymore so it is time for me to head to Fish Time and start a new account there. 20 post counts and 10 rep points required to sell stuff again......another round of earning brownie points.  :Razz:

----------


## zyblack

Update!

I just found out that I can post in the buy/sell of Fish Talk with even my first post! It is a very new forum so kinda quiet there but I suggest those urgent seller or buyers can head there for shrimp-related sales while AQ admin and moderators review the system here.

Hmm maybe I should give a "special AQ" discount for AQ members... :Razz:

----------


## VSGenesis

Sorry, I apologise in advance but its starting to irk me. It's *not* the end of the world if AQ really ban shrimp selling. Heck, it will not kill if the whole section is close down. Ask ourselves, in what spirit was Buy/Sell section created for?

I find it "funny" and unbelievable why some of us would go asking, "what should I do now?" Is it really that bad till we become lost, out lifes become empty with the platform gone? Why do we need to "poke" or annoy others further by *insinuating*? It does not help at all.

What we should do collectively is to shoot out positive ideas and constructive suggestions to AQ to find a solution to make it better/beneficial for everyone and not for one party. And be patient.

I've given my suggestions. Regardless , whether its a positive or a pathetic idea, AQ decides. AQ don't owe me anything; I do not owe AQ anything except for my appreciation for creating AQ for us. Can we come back to giving out constructive suggestions; if not leave this space open.

----------


## ZackZhou

> Sorry, I apologise in advance but its starting to irk me. It's *not* the end of the world if AQ really ban shrimp selling. Heck, it will not kill if the whole section is close down. Ask ourselves, in what spirit was Buy/Sell section created for?
> 
> I find it "funny" and unbelievable why some of us would go asking, "what should I do now?" Is it really that bad till we become lost, out lifes become empty with the platform gone? Why do we need to "poke" or annoy others further by *insinuating*? It does not help at all.
> 
> What we should do collectively is to shoot out positive ideas and constructive suggestions to AQ to find a solution to make it better/beneficial for everyone and not for one party. And be patient.
> 
> I've given my suggestions. Regardless , whether its a positive or a pathetic idea, AQ decides. AQ don't owe me anything; I do not owe AQ anything except for my appreciation for creating AQ for us. Can we come back to giving out constructive suggestions; if not leave this space open.


Appreciate what AQ forum had provided us. Nobody said its the end of the world. There are so many ways to get rid of your excess bioload. 
anything FOC will not have any dispute i suppose? heehee

----------


## VSGenesis

> Appreciate what AQ forum had provided us. Nobody said its the end of the world. There are so many ways to get rid of your excess bioload. 
> anything FOC will not have any dispute i suppose? heehee


Hi Zack, nah not everyone. But apparently, there are minority that makes it as if it is. As if AQ owns them. Most of the folks are alright and really nice keepers.

All this talk about shrimp, makes me want to go prawning again. Hehe. Miss catching prawns.

----------


## newlife

> Thanks for the info! Looking to sell shrimps (yes I am selling shrimps for profits...evil me..) and can't do it in AQ and AF anymore so it is time for me to head to Fish Time and start a new account there. 20 post counts and 10 rep points required to sell stuff again......another round of earning brownie points.


Power reply...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## icefire

> Thanks for the info! Looking to sell shrimps (yes I am selling shrimps for profits...evil me..) and can't do it in AQ and AF anymore so it is time for me to head to Fish Time and start a new account there. 20 post counts and 10 rep points required to sell stuff again......another round of earning brownie points.


kindly register as a commercial seller if so that is the case. Our Mod Simon will have to approve of it first. no point asking everyone here to go other forums to sell their excessive stuff and it plainly shows what manners you have. You come to this forum and people welcome you with open arms. Now you bitch about not being able to sell for profits due to some temporary ban on sales then you have the cheek to try to drag members to other forums?? I'm not sorry to say that you DO NOT HAVE MY RESPECT. :Boo:

----------


## zyblack

> kindly register as a commercial seller if so that is the case. Our Mod Simon will have to approve of it first. no point asking everyone here to go other forums to sell their excessive stuff and it plainly shows what manners you have. You come to this forum and people welcome you with open arms. Now you bitch about not being able to sell for profits due to some temporary ban on sales then you have the cheek to try to drag members to other forums?? I'm not sorry to say that you DO NOT HAVE MY RESPECT.


Take a good look at the buy/sell forum. See how many people are selling guppies, plants and various other stuff. Many are using the reason to reduce bioload or doing rescapes or whatever the reason. Are these people doing so without any form of any monetary returns? I remember a period of time when people are growing rares mosses and plants for sale and they are posting it every single week. I don't see people having problems with that and in fact most of them appreciate the opportunity being able to get those rare mosses.

Now take a good look at what is happening here. Just because I am selling my shrimps does that make me a evil person? If I sell plants and guppies, then I am perfectly fine? I don't see the people buying the shrimps from me in the past complaining about their purchase nor did I twist their arms to do so. I am selling them my shrimps at a lower price than that of the LFS so am I doing them a favour or hurting them? By the way, LFS are selling shrimps at a higher price so are they even more evil than I am?

Also since AQ does not allow shrimp sales, what is so wrong about me telling the others where to head to for shrimp-related sales? AQ does not want shrimp sales here so whether others head to other forums or not, should not matter to AQ or to any of the members here. Do you think they will stop visiting AQ once they visit other forums? If that is the case, it is simply because of their personal choice and not because I goad them to. AQ deem the shrimp community as contentious and quarrelsome so aren't I helping AQ solve the problem by asking the shrimps-lovers to move their chatter and flaming to the other forums? Since the shrimp section is the only section that is giving AQ admins and mods headaches, isn't this one method of solving the problem?

By the way, I have no idea who you are so I am not sure if I want or need your respect since it might just be the other way around. You might want to watch your words though since I see no reason to get personal here.

----------


## icefire

> Take a good look at the buy/sell forum. See how many people are selling guppies, plants and various other stuff. Many are using the reason to reduce bioload or doing rescapes or whatever the reason. Are these people doing so without any form of any monetary returns? I remember a period of time when people are growing rares mosses and plants for sale and they are posting it every single week. I don't see people having problems with that and in fact most of them appreciate the opportunity being able to get those rare mosses.
> 
> Now take a good look at what is happening here. Just because I am selling my shrimps does that make me a evil person? If I sell plants and guppies, then I am perfectly fine? I don't see the people buying the shrimps from me in the past complaining about their purchase nor did I twist their arms to do so. I am selling them my shrimps at a lower price than that of the LFS so am I doing them a favour or hurting them? By the way, LFS are selling shrimps at a higher price so are they even more evil than I am?
> 
> Also since AQ does not allow shrimp sales, what is so wrong about me telling the others where to head to for shrimp-related sales? AQ does not want shrimp sales here so whether others head to other forums or not, should not matter to AQ or to any of the members here. Do you think they will stop visiting AQ once they visit other forums? If that is the case, it is simply because of their personal choice and not because I goad them to. AQ deem the shrimp community as contentious and quarrelsome so aren't I helping AQ solve the problem by asking the shrimps-lovers to move their chatter and flaming to the other forums? Since the shrimp section is the only section that is giving AQ admins and mods headaches, isn't this one method of solving the problem?
> 
> By the way, I have no idea who you are so I am not sure if I want or need your respect since it might just be the other way around. You might want to watch your words though since I see no reason to get personal here.


Number 1: Does banning of sales include plants/moss/other livestocks other than shrimps? If no, why mention them? :Smug: 

Number 2: Did I mention anything about an "evil" person. I'm merely suggesting that you sign up with Simon our dear Mod for commercial sales since you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit.

Number 3: Did I mention anything about people complaining about your shrimps? :Evil:  I'm saying that YOU as a person, BITCH about not being able to sell shrimps here while others are giving feedbacks.

Number 4: If you had read earlier about this thread. You would know that "Shrimperax", another guy, was pulling other shrimp sellers into his so called temporary blog to sell shrimps and that was NOT ALLOWED by Vinz. Opening asking about other forums is frown upon if you do not know that. Have you seen other forums asking about other forums like giving the full name of the forum, lets just say most people who do that gets ban straight no matter how long are in the forum.

Number 5: Do you see them opening flaming each other about their shrimps? What i noticed is that almost all gives constructive comments.

Number 6: This is not personal. Its just that the way you are posting things is deem as offensive to lots of people.

----------


## shearerkk

zyblack, icefire.... I feel both of you need to take one step back and allow things to just cool off.

In certain sense, I agree in parts with what both of you have brought up, and at the same time, I have to disagree with some of the assumption you both are pointing at one another.

For zyblack, I understand your comment, and I share the same frustration.. that why I started the thread... to move on..... but there is no need to challenge AQ or to test the patience of the mods. As much as I would like to see the mods giving some space for buy/sell or indepth explanation into how this was being develope into such, it is not for us to challenge the mods or to test their limits.

For icefire, maybe the words and expression used by zyblack are wrong..... but can't we see that it is was a development due to frustration, not really intented to be offensive? By responding to zyblack's post and pointing out some of his wrong choice of words and expression isn't gonna help him. Sometime, we assume we know what others are writing, but really... do we?? Just as you wrote that you did not single zyblack as 'evil', but he assume it..... in the same way, you wrote "offensive to lots of people" but really....... are there "lots of people"??

Seriously, I start the thread not to challenge anyone, but only with desire to move on.. to find an answer to my problem.

So guys, lets cool off... replying to one another unintentional comments doesn't help each others. Cheers!

----------


## zyblack

> Number 1: Does banning of sales include plants/moss/other livestocks other than shrimps? If no, why mention them?: smug :
> 
> Number 2: Did I mention anything about an "evil" person. I'm merely suggesting that you sign up with Simon our dear Mod for commercial sales since you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit.
> 
> Number 3: Did I mention anything about people complaining about your shrimps? I'm saying that YOU as a person, BITCH about not being able to sell shrimps here while others are giving feedbacks.
> 
> Number 4: If you had read earlier about this thread. You would know that "Shrimperax", another guy, was pulling other shrimp sellers into his so called temporary blog to sell shrimps and that was NOT ALLOWED by Vinz. Opening asking about other forums is frown upon if you do not know that. Have you seen other forums asking about other forums like giving the full name of the forum, lets just say most people who do that gets ban straight no matter how long are in the forum.
> 
> Number 5: Do you see them opening flaming each other about their shrimps? What i noticed is that almost all gives constructive comments.
> ...


No.1 and 2 - You asked me to register to be a commercial seller for what reason? Simply because I say I sell stuff for a profit? You mentioned "_you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit_" 

Ahem...Is selling stuff for profit bad? What I am reading in this thread is a lot of people deem selling for a profit as bad and one should only trade or give away stuff here. I point this out siimply I don't see the logic behind it. I mentioned other livestocks and plants for the same reason, they are selling stuff for a profit. If I can breed guppies with a certain genetic trait or quality and people wants to buy them from me, is it wrong? Selling for a profit does not make me a commercial seller since I do not own a business selling shrimps. 

No.3 - You deem my posts and comments as "bitching" while I consider them feedback and my view of the situation. I worded my sentences very carefully with the intention to uncover misconceptions and underlying suppositions. Such as your visible dislike for the words "selling for a profit". I want to make you (and others) see that those words are not necessarily evil or bad. The word "profit" has both good and bad connotations but it appears that several opinions expressed here seem to deem "selling for profit" is bad.

No.4 - I read what Shrimprax wrote and the arguments back and forth. I will put it simply. Those who keep shrimps or looking to keep shrimps will want to acquire or "offload" (a better word?) shrimps for their interest and since AQ decided to ban all transactions related to shrimps, is it very wrong for others to want to know where else to go to get their kicks and spend their money? If it is bad manners to openly suggest other venues to go to, do we all then have to secretly PM each other and "talk underground" like bandits afraid of being caught? 

No.5 - Not sure what you are talking about so going to add my own point. I and others who value the freedom to buy/sell shrimps are upset about the current ban. I understand that moderators are frustrated with dealing with the flaming/trolling as well as the transaction disputes within the shrimp community. But the decision to ban the transactions upsets the people who have never participated in the flaming or disputes and have no parts to play except that they are part of the shrimp-lovers group. If I am part of the shrimp community then I am both "quarrelsome and contentious" and if I sell shrimps for a profit, I am a "commercial seller" who should be ashamed of himself. And now that I am pointing others to another forum, I am deemed to have bad manners. Anyone can see what I am getting at?

No.6 - "_I'm saying that YOU as a person, BITCH about not being able to sell shrimps_" Yeah...not personal...

----------


## zyblack

> zyblack, icefire.... I feel both of you need to take one step back and allow things to just cool off.
> 
> In certain sense, I agree in parts with what both of you have brought up, and at the same time, I have to disagree with some of the assumption you both are pointing at one another.
> 
> For zyblack, I understand your comment, and I share the same frustration.. that why I started the thread... to move on..... but there is no need to challenge AQ or to test the patience of the mods. As much as I would like to see the mods giving some space for buy/sell or indepth explanation into how this was being develope into such, it is not for us to challenge the mods or to test their limits.
> 
> For icefire, maybe the words and expression used by zyblack are wrong..... but can't we see that it is was a development due to frustration, not really intented to be offensive? By responding to zyblack's post and pointing out some of his wrong choice of words and expression isn't gonna help him. Sometime, we assume we know what others are writing, but really... do we?? Just as you wrote that you did not single zyblack as 'evil', but he assume it..... in the same way, you wrote "offensive to lots of people" but really....... are there "lots of people"??
> 
> Seriously, I start the thread not to challenge anyone, but only with desire to move on.. to find an answer to my problem.
> ...


No worries I understand perfectly well where you are coming from since we are in the same "boat". 

The reasons I am wording my posts that way is to get the moderators and admins to see the impact they have on the community with their decision. Of course I do not understand the level of frustration or difficulty they have had dealing with the issues so far and I will not pretend to know. But I just want to let them know how I feel about the situation, from my point of view. Hope they will consider it in their decisions moving forward.

----------


## eddy84

> No.1 and 2 - You asked me to register to be a commercial seller for what reason? Simply because I say I sell stuff for a profit? You mentioned "_you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit_" 
> 
> Ahem...Is selling stuff for profit bad? What I am reading in this thread is a lot of people deem selling for a profit as bad and one should only trade or give away stuff here. I point this out siimply I don't see the logic behind it. I mentioned other livestocks and plants for the same reason, they are selling stuff for a profit. If I can breed guppies with a certain genetic trait or quality and people wants to buy them from me, is it wrong? Selling for a profit does not make me a commercial seller since I do not own a business selling shrimps. 
> 
> No.3 - You deem my posts and comments as "bitching" while I consider them feedback and my view of the situation. I worded my sentences very carefully with the intention to uncover misconceptions and underlying suppositions. Such as your visible dislike for the words "selling for a profit". I want to make you (and others) see that those words are not necessarily evil or bad. The word "profit" has both good and bad connotations but it appears that several opinions expressed here seem to deem "selling for profit" is bad.
> 
> No.4 - I read what Shrimprax wrote and the arguments back and forth. I will put it simply. Those who keep shrimps or looking to keep shrimps will want to acquire or "offload" (a better word?) shrimps for their interest and since AQ decided to ban all transactions related to shrimps, is it very wrong for others to want to know where else to go to get their kicks and spend their money? If it is bad manners to openly suggest other venues to go to, do we all then have to secretly PM each other and "talk underground" like bandits afraid of being caught? 
> 
> No.5 - Not sure what you are talking about so going to add my own point. I and others who value the freedom to buy/sell shrimps are upset about the current ban. I understand that moderators are frustrated with dealing with the flaming/trolling as well as the transaction disputes within the shrimp community. But the decision to ban the transactions upsets the people who have never participated in the flaming or disputes and have no parts to play except that they are part of the shrimp-lovers group. If I am part of the shrimp community then I am both "quarrelsome and contentious" and if I sell shrimps for a profit, I am a "commercial seller" who should be ashamed of himself. And now that I am pointing others to another forum, I am deemed to have bad manners. Anyone can see what I am getting at?
> ...


Finally! somebody actually sees things eye to eye with me..! you expressed exactly what I meant all along.
I am not afraid to announce I am that shrimperax , you guys are talking about. I have been keeping quiet partly because of the relentless ban on my accounts and that I have been busy - unlike what I have been labelled , as somebody with 'no life' . BUT that would not stop me. I have my own point of view, others have theirs' but when they can't accept my way of doing things ,they resort to personal attacks. Few of such examples are displayed earlier in this thread and of course the actions displayed by some 'reasonable' mods/admin, who I shall not name . 


By the way if you read the thread title, it is asking where else..? SO, zyblack is not wrong in answering that question. One suggestion, get somebody to change that title else only zyblack is answering to the topic while the others are actually commenting in the wrong thread?


Just a note to the mods/admin though, you can keep banning me but that would not stop me from making a new account just to make *ONE* comment. 
I seriously wonder if the ban on my accounts is justified through proper reasons or just an act derived from these chinese characters- 脑休成怒, if you understand?

----------


## kenny

Just a thought....
Isn't this the best time to start a new community?

Just like when our neighbour wanted to kick us out, we became independent and did well on our own.

----------


## Draka

Seriously guys, please, can we just stop arguing about this and agree to disagree? Those who wish to find another avenue to dispose of their shrimp and/or earn a quick buck, sure, please find another avenue. For those who wish to give others an avenue to do so, please go ahead and provide an avenue, no one's saying that you're the bad guy here. 

But please, if people are nice enough to provide us with an avenue, resources and help by setting up a forum, surely it's not too much to ask to show them the due respect and following the rules that are set here. People are already providing us a forum gratis, and with that comes a lot of volunteer work by people. I understand and also dislike it whenever people "pull rank" on me, but questioning other people's rules and challenging them for no good reason other than you feel it should be the way is not the accepted social convention. I won't bother with right or wrong. Discussing about it is definitely fine, but not quarreling over it and definitely not trying to get around the rules. If you don't follow the rules that are set when you enter an organization, expect persecution. And if you feel so strongly about it, set up your own organization where you can have those rules that you wish for. But please stop trolling around here. Don't talk about freedom and other big notions like that, again, no one forced you to register here and follow the rules here. There's a difference between giving constructive feedback and simply voicing out displeasure. I have no issue with the latter, in fact I do voice out my displeasure, just do not mask it as the former.

This post really isn't meant to offend, and please do not misconstrue it as such. I just hope to point out the possibilities in moving on and I do hope that we all do so. Ultimately, we are a community and have been getting along with each other more or less, within or beyond the shrimp community. 缘缘相报何时了, can we just move on already and stop pointing fingers at who first did what?

----------


## vinz

We usually prefer not to wash dirty laundry in public, but in cases where the person wants to keep being difficult...




> ...
> 
> Few of such examples are displayed earlier in this thread and of course the actions displayed by some 'reasonable' mods/admin, who I shall not name . 
> 
> ...
> 
> Just a note to the mods/admin though, you can keep banning me but that would not stop me from making a new account just to make *ONE* comment. 
> I seriously wonder if the ban on my accounts is justified through proper reasons or just an act derived from these chinese characters- 脑休成怒, if you understand?


Just to clear the air. Shrimperax was not banned for posting a link to his temporary site.

He is banned for trying to circumvent our decisions and rules, and for being defiant and disrespectful.

Some examples of his signatures:

Making his link test smaller than the other text... why?



> _Where else? It's here temporarily i hope. <link removed>_


After I asked him why, he made it bigger than the other text... why?



> _Where else? It's here temporarily i hope. <link removed>_


Instead of punitive actions, I asked him to remove his link. He change it to this:



> For+Shrimp+sales + google. If you need.


Again, instead of punitive actions, I PM'd him and issued a warning. He changed it to this:



> Oh..an unreasonable and tyrannical ruler. He who only knows how to impose his ideas on others..so much for democracy.
> What a show!


Up to this point, I had been trying to explain the situation and reason with him. However, this was the straw that broke the camel's back and I decided that there is no point for me to reason any more with someone who insists ondefying our decisions and rules and banned his account.

He decided to return as AL84 with this post:



> So...when one couldn't win in the debate,they simply abuse their authority by simply resorting to the use of ban? How childish is that? now let's see what reasons you can give to ban this account as well.I have not done anything with this account yet,so you guys got to be objective.. 
> 
> Read my signature, they easiest way out wouldn't get rid of me..


And this signature:



> Resistance is never futile , it is futile only when the resistance didn't try hard enough.


Of course, the account gets banned. Banned means banned, new account does not make a difference. Besides being defiant, he is also creating multiple accounts.

He returned again as eddy84 with this signature:



> A leader that doesn't behaves like one..


Banned of course.

There are many views posted in this thread. Some supporting our decision, some opposing it and some middle ground. We have not taken offence with any. So be clear that Shrimperax is not banned for his views. Simply for his defiance and disrespect.

AQ is a private space, opened for public access. Everyone is welcomed to join and participate as long as they behave themselves, respect other members, respect the house rules (not just the word of it, but the spirit of it) and respect the hosts. AQ was created for the community. Not for our personal glory nor benefit. We have house rules and make decisions to keep AQ peaceful, conducive and relevant. Members who repeatedly defy us and break the rules, just have to go. Nothing personal, no offence meant.

We are certainly NOT a democracy. There are no leaders in AQ, just hosts. Do you go to a friend's house and expect democracy? If the house owner expels you, do you keep trying to come back in (without making peace first)? Do you not think it is rude to go a private gathering and publicly ask the guests to go to another gathering (without asking the host for permission first)?

Over the years, we certainly have had troublesome discussion and sales threads. However, we have never had problematic threads as often as with shrimp threads.

Other than the public quarrels, we also get PMs making accusations and complaints. While we do not get involved in private disagreements, we do sometimes investigate if accusations of cheating or breaking of AQ rules are true. It simply came to a point where enough was enough and decided to put a stop to it.

One of AQ's goals is to create a peaceful and conducive environment to share the hobby knowledge, with threads that are more content than idle chatter. I believe many of our members join and keep coming back because of that. 

All AQ staff are volunteers. We have personal lives, work, studies, family, etc. The staff do not enjoy any material benefits from working on AQ, except an appreciation meal once or twice a year, sometimes less. We cannot work on AQ full time and there is a point where we have to draw the line for the sake of keeping AQ peaceful, conducive and relevant within the man-hours and resources available. While we would like to be nice, service-oriented, send PM reminders, etc, most of the time we just don't have the the luxury of time to do so. It is a lot of work to keep AQ as clean as it is. If you have visited other more chaotic forums, you can see the difference and this due to our relatively large and active team of moderators.

Thank you for all your suggestions and views. Do keep them coming if you have any more. We are taking a long time restructuring the marketplace mechanics because we need a system that requires relatively less manual intervention by AQ staff.

And last of all, please respect each other and do not turn this thread into a war. Everybody is entitled to their views and are free to express them respectfully. Avoid personal accusations and name-calling, etc.

So zyblack and icefire, please cool off before you reply.

Thank you.

----------


## ZackZhou

hai, just like the same thing happening when Af closed/reduced their buy/sell thread.

----------


## EvolutionZ

> hai, just like the same thing happening when Af closed/reduced their buy/sell thread.


AF also got so happening? thought all the old bird there very happy when AF decided to allow buy/sell only for those who contributed to the forum or sign up as AFC member? 

Anyway maybe mods should give us a time whereby you may review the need to lift or continuing the ban of shrimp sales? so at least we know when there could be a change..

----------


## bilis

[QUOTE=vinz;695401]We usually prefer not to wash dirty laundry in public, but in cases where the person wants to keep being difficult...


...QUOTE]
Hi ,
it is Shrimperax here 

It is hilarious to see your reactions towards my opinions. If you are not what I said to be then why are you so mindful/offended by what I said? Are you guilty conscious or simply did I just hit on your sore spot?


Now let me get back to the topic. I am glad that you mentioned that there are actually some discussions on-going which also means that the ban will somehow be lifted soon .The people that receives the utmost benefits then, are the hobbyist. The vibrancy of this forum is attributed to the minimal amount of restrictions you have in this forum and I hope it stays this way. It is not that I want to bad-mouth another forum but just look at how much does it feels like a 'ghost town' over there. That is the result of excessive restrictions in place. I respect that this is your ground and that I also had enough of this long-drawn debate with you- which probably wouldn't change anything.Thus with this post I shall return to my lurking state in this forum with a new ID. This is my part of making peace with you and that I do not hope to return to this thread again to re-open this 'war' with your next reply.


Peace-out

----------


## hardric

Wow... First u you mock the mod by claiming his reactions are funny, etc etc. Then u you offer peace by being a lurker (ie totally no contribution to the community). Unbelievable.
But it doesn't matter, since u you will not be returning to the thread. So i guess u you will not read my comments. 

Peace out.

----------


## vinz

[QUOTE=bilis;695477]


> We usually prefer not to wash dirty laundry in public, but in cases where the person wants to keep being difficult...
> 
> 
> ...QUOTE]
> Hi ,
> it is Shrimperax here 
> 
> It is hilarious to see your reactions towards my opinions. If you are not what I said to be then why are you so mindful/offended by what I said? Are you guilty conscious or simply did I just hit on your sore spot?
> 
> ...


You certainly have an odd way of making peace. Alright, we'll close that matter here.

----------


## paradox

Actually, most of the people posting are sellers. But I'm a buyer, never sold anything for profit. Been breeding shrimps for about 1.5years. I must say that I was disheartened to learn that selling of shrimps were not allowed because I used to scour the forums everyday hoping to see cheap shrimps being on sale! For example "SS CRS" can range from $4 to $10/piece. 

When I started I wanted to try everything. And I was a student then. So the cheaper the better. I bought from Seaview, C328, Polyart, GC, and a couple of breeders. I still remember my best buy was $10 for 40 cherries. Today the cherries have multiplied and somehow became Sakuras and Fire Reds. On the other hand I bought some cheap CRS from an LFS and it slowly lost colour totally, while others I bought from some breeders had nicer colours. 

So as someone who started out in a tight budget, I must say the Buy/Sell section of Shrimps amongst other things was what spurred me to carry on. I didn't care if someone sold for profit or if someone sold me worse grade shrimps than what they advertised. I got to see the goods before paying. And today, I have 3 tanks. This definitely wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the chance to buy from breeders. I guess I'm lucky I've already started. It's just sad to know that there may be other potential shrimp hobbyists who may not start due to the high cost of nice shrimps at LFS. 

So yups, from another perspective, perhaps potential shrimp buyers are the ones who end up more unfortunate. 

But on another note, I'm fully grateful to AQ. If not, I wouldn't have started this hobby!

----------


## EvolutionZ

> Actually, most of the people posting are sellers. But I'm a buyer, never sold anything for profit. Been breeding shrimps for about 1.5years. I must say that I was disheartened to learn that selling of shrimps were not allowed because I used to scour the forums everyday hoping to see cheap shrimps being on sale! For example "SS CRS" can range from $4 to $10/piece. 
> 
> When I started I wanted to try everything. And I was a student then. So the cheaper the better. I bought from Seaview, C328, Polyart, GC, and a couple of breeders. I still remember my best buy was $10 for 40 cherries. Today the cherries have multiplied and somehow became Sakuras and Fire Reds. On the other hand I bought some cheap CRS from an LFS and it slowly lost colour totally, while others I bought from some breeders had nicer colours. 
> 
> So as someone who started out in a tight budget, I must say the Buy/Sell section of Shrimps amongst other things was what spurred me to carry on. I didn't care if someone sold for profit or if someone sold me worse grade shrimps than what they advertised. I got to see the goods before paying. And today, I have 3 tanks. This definitely wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the chance to buy from breeders. I guess I'm lucky I've already started. It's just sad to know that there may be other potential shrimp hobbyists who may not start due to the high cost of nice shrimps at LFS. 
> 
> So yups, from another perspective, perhaps potential shrimp buyers are the ones who end up more unfortunate. 
> 
> But on another note, I'm fully grateful to AQ. If not, I wouldn't have started this hobby!


Totally agreed, its such a pity that i cant buy any shrimps through AQ now when i just started a shrimp tank. got to hunt from LFS and pay a higher price...

----------


## Dcloud

Just a thought though, but would making the rating system compulsory be a good idea? 
Eg, for every sales made, both buyer and seller have to oblige the system into rating the other party..

Honestly as i typed the above words.. i realised that this system could be falsified by having friends rate each other without any actual transaction.. 

In fact when i finally had the guts to step into this hobby after lurking awhile(research etc), i didnt know the issues faced by the moderators.
Mainly because, i have never traded here, only in another local forum a long while back. 
So with that, i have no personal account on the trade in this community, especially not deviating, the trade of shrimps.

Well, in the end i am just throwing ideas.. maybe someone can improve on mine? 
(not sure about the back-end difficulty either.. my bad)

----------


## chansl

I guess i started not at a right time .. Left the hobby a while ago .. Now got my tank setup but no shrimp to buy ... I guess i have to go back to LFS to get some Fire Yellow shrimp .. Sigh

----------


## EvolutionZ

got all my shrimps for my new tank from LFS too. thats the only place left for us  :Sad:

----------


## Saiberg

Hope AQ re-allow the shrimp sale again soon... Especially crs etc..  :Smile: 


To Fish and Beyond....

----------


## dnsfpl

can sell but can trade?

im quitting office crs tank

keeping hardy fish is a lot easier

----------


## sateman

Didn't know that giving away shrimps on market place is also considered taboo although the ban only specified Shrimps Sales...hmmm

----------


## eddy planer

> Didn't know that giving away shrimps on market place is also considered taboo although the ban only specified Shrimps Sales...hmmm


Give away shrimps??? FOC?? i never keep these pricy shrimps before, pm me I love to try to keep it if any  :Roll Eyes:

----------


## sateman

> Give away shrimps??? FOC?? i never keep these pricy shrimps before, pm me I love to try to keep it if any


Just gave away some recently but those very low grade ones..colourless specimens. The kind that you'd only use for suicide battles..hehe

----------


## eddy planer

Suicide shrimps or kamikaze shrimps? It sounds so interesting!!! I want i want!

----------


## zyblack

Bumpz. In case mods forget entirely about this issue and people are limited to buying shrimps from Green Chapter.

----------


## howie

Just thinking out loud... can we have a thread to express our interests in buying shrimps instead then?

----------


## argv1900

Agree with this.




> Just thinking out loud... can we have a thread to express our interests in buying shrimps instead then?

----------


## ZackZhou

New option, sell tau huay tub, foc shrimp.  :Very Happy:  jk

----------


## thebaldingaquarist

> New option, sell tau huay tub, foc shrimp.  jk


Nice option!
This forum will have the most expensive water/tau huay tub/ hornworts/ etc..

----------


## Saiberg

I agree...





> Just thinking out loud... can we have a thread to express our interests in buying shrimps instead then?

----------


## sabre09

I personally prefer to go C328 for my shrimps.. they have some good grade ones too..

----------


## xuan87

I went to C328 a couple weeks ago to look for sakura and fire red shrimps due to a friend's recommendation but went home disappointed.... The fire red shrimps were liveless and in some bags of sakura, more than half of the shrimps are dead! There were very little selection too.

I decided to buy from Y618 instead, the shrimps are being sold for the same price, and they look to be much healthier too, from how lively they are. Some of the sakura shrimps were even pregnant already in the bag!

Too bad shrimps sales are banned.... I'm sure there are alot of people wanting to sell their shrimps since shrimps are quite easy to breed.

----------


## emptysoulz

I know exactly what you're talking about, bought my batch of fire reds from c328 too, there were at a really good price but like you said they were pretty lifeless. They seemed ok after I aclimate them though, pretty lively when they were moved into my tank.  Sadly half of them had perished 😭, which is more likely an issue with my water parameters.  The healthiest shrimps I've come across are in CRS haven at tampines. All the shrimps are in big spacious tanks with chillers and all but expect to pay a premium for them (berried shrimps carry a even more premium price). If I have a well established tank with stable parameters I would definitely going there to handpick my shrimps livestock.  Haven't managed to go down to y618 yet as it id quite far away for me(I live in the east) but hope to go down soon!
Sent from my RM-821_apac_singapore_293 using Board Express

----------


## sqwerc

You guys should go check out green chapter for their shrimp. Very solid. Hahaha

----------


## xuan87

Seaview has the largest selection of shrimps that I know of, but I think they don't sell fire red. Pretty strange considering they sell alot of expensive shrimps like SSS crs and king kongs.

----------


## emptysoulz

GC is in MacPherson which is pretty near my house too but like CRS haven their shrimps come at a very solid price too haha.
Sent from my RM-821_apac_singapore_293 using Board Express

----------


## Urban Aquaria

I'd try not to buy shrimps that are sold in those pre-packaged bags... its mainly because we have no idea how long those shrimps have been sitting in them.

If you are lucky, the shrimps were packed on the same day and you bought the "fresh" stock so no problems... but there is also a possibility that you could be getting those bags which have been floating for a few days. Imagine the shrimps are kept in those bags for a few days, all the ammonia and toxins accumulate in such a small amount of water, its no wonder their health already compromised and end up very weak with low survival rate.

Its always better to get shrimps directly from LFS shrimp tanks, at least you can tell the staff to pick the healthy and berried ones, and you know the shrimps have been living in a proper tank environment.  :Smile:

----------


## Draka

Personally I find the stock at c328 quite sufficient in terms of quality, and I do know the uncle and auntie give discounts if the shrimp have been there for too long. Of course, if one can afford the premium, GC and CRShaven will be the places to go to but for the budget conscious I'd still recommend c328 or y618.

----------


## AQMS

Yes,Urban is right shrimps that are sold in those pre-packaged bags are a risk to buy.
Where else shrimps that are sold in a tank is much healthier and their surviving rate is higher.

----------


## shrimplet

Hi Guys, where is GC location? Y618 sell ex shrimps. C328 another lfs which is selling some high grade at only $6 each. Best thing is you get to chose your own shrimp but with them helping u to catch. (don't like the way they handle the shrimps) I think we can do a better job then them. Cheers all.

----------


## felix_fx2

> Hi Guys, where is GC location? Y618 sell ex shrimps. C328 another lfs which is selling some high grade at only $6 each. Best thing is you get to chose your own shrimp but with them helping u to catch. (don't like the way they handle the shrimps) I think we can do a better job then them. Cheers all.


1: kindly refrain from using sms short hand like "u" ....

2: gc is in mac person. you can Google their full name green chapter. they have address inside their website 

3: if you find y618 expensive. please prepare yourself when you see gc price. the good side is the way the shrimo there are kept are way better...

----------


## qool

For fire red shrimps and painted fire red green chapter is really the best place. It really depends you want cost or quality.

----------


## stormhawk

If cost is a problem, stick to cheaper shrimps like Malayans and Cherries. For what it's worth, I've seen the shrimps at Green Chapter and they are healthy. At C328, I've purchased healthy Cherry shrimp before but if you do not acclimatise the shrimp properly with the drip method, chances are, they will get stressed. Worst case scenario is death. I have seen hobbyists who mishandle fish and shrimp at the LFS, so ditto for LFS staff who mishandle the same livestock.

----------


## Shrim_p_lants

Just wondering..is the ban still in place? It is really sad to hear

----------


## stormhawk

The ban remains in place until further notice, due to reasons already discussed previously.

----------


## tousan

I went to green chapter last week, their shrimp are solid and more varieties. Besides, their shrimps live in proper tanks, unlike some shops that have their shrimp in plastic bag packing. But I'm not sure about about the price difference. :Smile:

----------

