# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Livebearers >  New to Endlers

## Xanavi

Got interested in them about a month ago and started collecting them from LFS. (mostly from c328 )

Currently have 2ft tank housing the males:



And a 'factory' housing the females and a lone (lucky) male.  :Laughing: 



Have 'harvested' a few babies so far.



Hope to be able to acquire some higher quality endlers in time to come  :Smile:

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## Guppendler

Nice, you have 2 endler strains there in your 2ft tank - saddleback and japan blau. Your factory tank is for production of the japan blau  :Smile:  I can't help but notice you have a small puffer in your factory tank, have to keep an eye on the puffer as it is known to be a fin and tail nipper. If the male lone endler starts to have ragged fin/tail, you would know who is the culprit.

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## Xanavi

The puffer was in the tank to eliminate the snails, i will probably shift it to another tank soon. So far, i observed that the cories are the victims, the endlers are too zippy to get nipped.  :Smile:

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## Kohei

You bought them in a big pack of 12- 14?

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## AQMS

> Nice, you have 2 endler strains there in your 2ft tank - saddleback and japan blau.


Which is the saddleback and the japan blau?
I have the same orange,blue ones in my tank same as TS.

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## Guppendler

The yellow ones with the black saddle patch from their upper back is the Saddleback (no surprise). Blau is blue in German, so the blue endler is Japan Blau.

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## Urban Aquaria

Just curious, are the saddleback and japan blau variations created though hybridization with guppies? Or are they specially line bred strains from the original wild type endlers?

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## AQMS

> The yellow ones with the black saddle patch from their upper back is the Saddleback (no surprise). Blau is blue in German, so the blue endler is Japan Blau.


Ok thanks,i thought so mine are the saddleback,just need to make sure from someone who know their guppies and endlers (guppendler) :Well done:

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## Guppendler

Saddleback is crossed with guppy but japan blau is wild japan guppy that looks like endler  :Smile:

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## Xanavi

Hi Guppendler

How soon can we start sexing the young?
At the moment, all the babies have this fan tailed anal fin which is the characterisitic for female livebearers.

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## Xanavi

> You bought them in a big pack of 12- 14?


Yup, bag of 5-6 pairs from 328. Those are the ones that comes with females. But I am not sure if they are true female endlers as they look similar to female guppies.

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## Guppendler

The fry are not possible to sex at the moment, have to wait at least 4-6 weeks or so. Females will have the gravid spot and remain very much colorless. Males will start to develop gonopodium and color up at about same time. 

From your pic, the females are not guppy females. They are the japan blau females, totally colorless. Japan blau is Y-link, only the males can pass down the genes to their sons. 

I have the true saddleback females as the traits are both X and Y linked, in other word, the trait is dominant. Either one parent need to have the genes to pass on to their next generation.

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## Xanavi

I suppose it is safe to keep them together until we are able to differentiate them?

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## hmlc74

nice planted , is it a 3 by 1 ft tank

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## Guppendler

Yes, absolutely safe to keep them together even after they are old enough to be sexed. If you want to keep the line pure, be careful not to mix the line with other strains.

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## Xanavi

> nice planted , is it a 3 by 1 ft tank


This is a narrow 2ft tank

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## Xanavi

Just got this few pcs of nice and striking reds

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## AQMS

Look like from c328,right?

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## Xanavi

That's right. Now I have a nice contrast of blues and reds. Just wondering if they come in other full colors as well..?

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## Guppendler

The reds are called Chili Red, nice healthy looking fish.

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## Guppendler

Attachment 43953

Here'a a pic on the saddleback female, the tail color is pretty indicative of the strain. 
The middle male is a blonde saddleback. The blonde gene is epistatic of black pigments. It suppresses the development of black coloration. You'll never find a blonde guppy/endler sporting black of any sort.

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## Guppendler

I must add that blonde guppy/endler would still have black eyes whereas in the case of albinism, the body and including the eyes would be devoid of black.

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## Xanavi

Thanks for the sharing! I always thought females don't have any colors.

The blonde male saddleback remind me of the longkang guppies i caught in the canals more than 20 yrs ago when I was a kid.

Good news today, I scoop out 3 more new babies  :Smile: 

By the way , are chili red real endlers since you mentioned that Saddleback is crossed with guppy and japan blau is wild japan guppy that looks like endler.... so is chili red the red version of a japan blau?

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## Guppendler

Colorless female will take on the color traits of the male with no interference genes passing onto the off springs. Females with color (usually on the fins and tails) is a display or certain strong genes (color traits). There are some traits like half black are very dominant. HB (half black) is passed down to the offspring when either parents has the gene. Knowing how these genes work would help one to breed lines with certain desired traits. 

Your chilli red is also known as scarlet endler, it is a hybrid of black bar endler with red female guppy. 
Congrats in harvesting more fry today  :Smile:  

Wah, you must be quite a young chap. 20 years ago I already finished my national service haha

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## Cmlee

> Yup, bag of 5-6 pairs from 328. Those are the ones that comes with females. But I am not sure if they are true female endlers as they look similar to female guppies.


I didn't see it in c328, where they put this? And how much?

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## AQMS

It is located on the left side where the counter is.
It is $12 per pack of 5pair if i not mistaken.

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## Cmlee

Can mix endlers with molly and swordtail ?

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## Cmlee

> It is located on the left side where the counter is.
> It is $12 per pack of 5pair if i not mistaken.


Left side when facing the counter?

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## AQMS

Yes,correct.

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## Xanavi

Hi Guppendler, would you be able to ID these?

They have a silvery white body with red tinges on the fins and tail.

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## Guppendler

They are magenta platinum endler. When you crossed wild type endler with red female guppy, you will end up with some fraction of the fry having the magenta trait.

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## Xanavi

So these are not pure endlers? So when you cross an endler with a guppy, how do you decide whether to call the offsprings guppies or endlers?

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## Guppendler

Nope, definitely not pure. Almost all the 'endlers' sold through lfs in SG are all endler/guppy hybrids. Generally the hybrids that look more like their wild type parents are loosely called 'endler'

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## Guppendler

Attachment 44296

Your magenta endlers display metalhead trait. Now that they are acclimatized in your tank, does the head region gets darker

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## Xanavi

you are right. the head region is darker. The coloring on the entire body also appears to be more 'tanned'. can see a more obvious red hue at the rear half of the fish

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## Guppendler

Try to breed them and let me know if they breed true. Thanks

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## gosukuso

bro where do you get the fish holder? 
was thinking of getting one for my shrimps

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## Xanavi

You can get them from c328

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## Guppendler

Bro, any updates on your endlers? Been quite a while  :Smile:

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## emeraldking

> Hi Guppendler, would you be able to ID these?
> 
> They have a silvery white body with red tinges on the fins and tail.


Well, the exact story behind these fish is the following. Chili endlers ( in the rest of the world they're called red scarlet endlers) do have the magenta gene and the socalled "störzbach"-gene. Generally, about 30-40% of the male offspring will be magenta for sure with the metallic shine (störzbach). If you won't cull them, you'll get males like the ones in these two pics in those bags. So basically, they're also chili endlers. 

I've started off keeping and breeding endlers (both N- and K-class) in 2004. Nowadays, I've got about 30 strains and some are my own created strains. I also judge endlers (both fancy and wildstrains) in the Netherlands and Germany.

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## Cmlee

I keep 15 in my tank for 9 months and all have died off leaving 2. Don't know what happened

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## emeraldking

And didn't you notice anything particular? There must be a reason why fish will die in a sudden and for sure when it involves more fish than just one...

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