# Other Aquarium Forums > Fish Care, Nutrition and Water Management >  Cardinal Tetra keeps dying

## fookie

Hi Bro,

I have problem keeping cardinal tetra. They keep dying out after 1 or 2 days in tank. I usually aclimatise fish before introducing and only 3 to 5 at a time.

I have a 7 gallons tank fully cycled (ammonium and nitrite is at 0ppm). Plants and shrimp are doing fine. Current stock in tanks are molly and 2 cardinal tetra. Whenever I tried adding new tetra or livestock, they would die in a span of 3 to 4 days leaving only the current batch of 3 fishes. Most of the time these 3 surviving fish will swims amongs the plant towards the back of tank and will come out to join the new batch when they are introduced. There is no fin nibbing or aggrasive behavior towards the new fish at all.

I do inject CO2 and drop checker is not light green in colour. I do water change weekly at about 30%. I monitoring of ammonium and nitrite on alternate days and they are always fine. Do I still need to change water if these 2 parameters always remains at 0? My tank is quite heavily planted though.

Very discourage and sad to see fish die. It has comes to a point where we might switch to shrimp tank....

What could be the problem? Thanks in advance.

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## tetrakid

Can you explain all the steps that you did from the time you brought a new bag of fish home from the shop?

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## tetrakid

Can you explain all the steps that you did from the time you brought a new bag of fish home from the shop till the time they are in your fish tank?

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## fookie

> Can you explain all the steps that you did from the time you brought a new bag of fish home from the shop till the time they are in your fish tank?


1) Drive home with bag on floor with stuff to stop from rolling. (noticed that fishes loose colour at this point)
2) Float in a pail of water for an hour plus, bag remains unopened
3) Open the bag and remove some water and float in tank for at least half hour. (colour of fish gets more bright now)
4) scoope a small amount of water from the tank into the bag, much less than the balance in the bag
5) after 10 minutes remove some water from the bag and add more water from tank. wait for 20 minutes and scoope fish into tank

after this the fish seems normal (behaviour and colour) and the existing fish doesn't attack them. 

I noticed that they are breathing more heavily than those existing ones. I have CO2 injection though (Drop checker still light green)

Before this whole process I did water change because of major readjustment. For water change I use my water filter to remove chlorine through activated carbon, did not add any anti-chlorine.

I am using internal overflow filter.

Thank you. Kindly let me know where did I do wrong.

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## tetrakid

Since you have taken the correct steps and precautions as you have explained, there should have beeen no problem. Since you are not using a hang-on filter and I have zero experience with internal filters, I am unable to help. I only have some experience with simple hang-on filters.

Just wait a while for other help on the way.

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## fookie

Do I still need to add anti-chlorine if I am using filtered water?

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## tetrakid

Are you able to post a picture of your tank?

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## wongce

Bro, i am not sure how much chlorine your fiter can remove... Some filter are not very effective except for filtering rust or debris. Note that chlorine levels in some housing areas are higher.

Better get some anti chlorine. Cheapo ones are better than none, got budget go for seachem prime

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## Eric9013

No that is that is the killer touch

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## Eric9013

Bro I suggest you state your full tank specs here for us to investigate, is your temperature normal 24-29? Do you dose liquid fertiliser, how is your bio load?

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## fookie

> No that is that is the killer touch


Are you saying that fish died because of chlorine poisoning?

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## delhezi

Chlorine and Chloramine cannot be removed by activated carbon. However, given time for the water to stand, chlorine will leave the water body, whilst chloramine will remain. 

It is important to get a good water conditioner. Also, monitor your nitrates since your ammonia and nitrites are both at zero, you shouldn't really be bothering with them.

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## fookie

Can I add anti chlorine directly into tank or should I do water change again?

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## Blue Whale

Can you describe where you got your cardinals (Which Shop) and what is the condition of them in terms of color vibrancy. 

Any PH indication at the shop?
Any lost of colors, dead fish in the tank before you buy.
For this shop, usually what is the arrival time of fish restock compared to the time you buy?

Based on your description, I can only tell that the fishes arrived in total shock.
When you buy it back, I do not see why the pail has to come in. Usually I would place the fish plastic (unopened) directly into the water surface where it floats and meantime, the temp in the bag syncs with the temp in the tank. Regarding opening, the mouth of the plastic usually face downwards so the fish swims out on their own instead of me catching them.

1. Dechlorination is advised. AP (Aquarium Products) *Genesis* $3-6 per bottle, just a few drops. 1 drop per gallon. Treats 2000 gallons.
2. If fishes are not in good condition, you are advised to quarantine them first before introducing into the main tank using the correct medicine in a separate tank. Simple fish tank, filtration media, plus air pump will do. Usually people uses the water from the main tank so the fish have time to adjust. As long as it is not tetra disease. Which has a high kill rate and low survival rate. You can google for this if you are interested.

Awaits your reply.

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## Blue Whale

Generally, there are few ways to use De-chlorination solutions.

1. Fill a pail with water, drip drip, wait for 1-2hr and use a air stone to oxygen the water. Once happy, start to introduce the water. You can add your plant food and fish vitamin at this point too if you like it. You can use hand as a stirrer.

2. Fill a pail with water, gradual pouring into the tank, (please use a plate and pour onto the plate, can use another cup too) drip drip solution. Now your fishes have to be really used to this kind of regime before you can attempt this. In this case, it is uneven as it depends on the water flow to get around the tank.

3. Consider getting your fish source from another shop.

4. If fish arrive on Friday, don't visit the shop on Saturday. The fish haven't even settle down from the farm, let alone your tank. If you visit on Tue, most likely stable. If you go Thursday and no more left, tell yourself just too bad and wait another week.

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## hardric

> Chlorine and Chloramine cannot be removed by activated carbon. However, given time for the water to stand, chlorine will leave the water body, whilst chloramine will remain. 
> 
> It is important to get a good water conditioner. Also, monitor your nitrates since your ammonia and nitrites are both at zero, you shouldn't really be bothering with them.


Activated carbon removes chlorine &amp; changes the chloramine into chlorides &amp; ammonia.
Pls go do your research.

But since you generally don't want ammonia in your tank, I suggest the use of a dechlorinator. A good brand is Seachem Prime.

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## fookie

> Can you describe where you got your cardinals (Which Shop) and what is the condition of them in terms of color vibrancy. 
> 
> Any PH indication at the shop?
> Any lost of colors, dead fish in the tank before you buy.
> For this shop, usually what is the arrival time of fish restock compared to the time you buy?
> 
> Based on your description, I can only tell that the fishes arrived in total shock.
> When you buy it back, I do not see why the pail has to come in. Usually I would place the fish plastic (unopened) directly into the water surface where it floats and meantime, the temp in the bag syncs with the temp in the tank. Regarding opening, the mouth of the plastic usually face downwards so the fish swims out on their own instead of me catching them.
> 
> ...



First I buy from the shop which i believe is frequent by many of the member here. Fishes are in good condition and no dead fish in tank. 

I do not think the source is the problem and after reading I believe it is caused by my own ignorant. The fishes have been there for quite sometime and new batch just arrived on the same day of purchase. They have not added to the existing stock. 

My thoughts of activated carbon removes chlorine is because the manufacturer stated that with test result. 

I really appreciate all the helps and advise given. Thank you

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## fookie

So it is best for me to change water which has be treated with anti-chlorine rather than adding directly into the tank right?

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## Blue Whale

> So it is best for me to change water which has be treated with anti-chlorine rather than adding directly into the tank right?


1. Follow what you think right now. You can change water at will, but have a bit of patience to wait.
2. You should take the chance to dismantle the filter and dismantle every part and wash as best as you can. If you do not have a decent brush, use tooth brush first.
3. See if you can remove the active carbon or not as well. Active monitor next morning on your fish condition as well. You should fine tune the temp of the water from pail to be similar to the tank as close as possible. New water lacks oxygen. So do not suspect it is your CO2 problem. Rest of the stuffs if you need to buy, try to get it tomorrow. You can't do much now.

Unless you have a car, then can drive to Clementi Polyart since they are open 24/7.

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## octopus

I had a similar experience specifically with cardinals. You not so bad still can last 2days. Mine will be gone in less than an hour. I am using a pressurised co2 system and indicator is light green. Suspected could be due to CO2 poisoning. But since the other fishes are doing ok have to rule out the poisoning. Maybe they need more time to adjust to the new water chemistry. The next time, I tried introducing the cardinals in the morning when co2 level is depleted. All five survived. Its been a month now and still counting. It could have been a freak result though. Just to share :Razz:

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## delhezi

> Activated carbon removes chlorine &amp; changes the chloramine into chlorides &amp; ammonia.
> Pls go do your research.
> 
> But since you generally don't want ammonia in your tank, I suggest the use of a dechlorinator. A good brand is Seachem Prime.


Thanks. My mistake.

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## felix_fx2

> 1) Drive home with bag on floor with stuff to stop from rolling. (noticed that fishes loose colour at this point)
> 2) Float in a pail of water for an hour plus, bag remains unopened
> 3) Open the bag and remove some water and float in tank for at least half hour. (colour of fish gets more bright now)
> 4) scoope a small amount of water from the tank into the bag, much less than the balance in the bag
> 5) after 10 minutes remove some water from the bag and add more water from tank. wait for 20 minutes and scoope fish into tank
> 
> after this the fish seems normal (behaviour and colour) and the existing fish doesn't attack them. 
> 
> I noticed that they are breathing more heavily than those existing ones. I have CO2 injection though (Drop checker still light green)
> ...


1: Can i know what water your using for floating the bag?
2: You can allow the fish to swim out on their own after you added tank water to the bag. Do allow around 30min-1hour for the fish to adjust before letting them swim out.
3: You are adjusting them to the soon-to-be living conditions.

P.S: senkang zone i know have high level of chlorine/chloramine (ok depend on which part of senkang actually) , you might want to add anti - chlorine/chloramine like seachem prime if you don't trust your water purifier/filter. it don't hurt to be safe.  :Grin:

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## fookie

> 1: Can i know what water your using for floating the bag?
> 2: You can allow the fish to swim out on their own after you added tank water to the bag. Do allow around 30min-1hour for the fish to adjust before letting them swim out.
> 3: You are adjusting them to the soon-to-be living conditions.
> 
> P.S: senkang zone i know have high level of chlorine/chloramine (ok depend on which part of senkang actually) , you might want to add anti - chlorine/chloramine like seachem prime if you don't trust your water purifier/filter. it don't hurt to be safe.


 
Just normal tap water. I just did water change with anti-chlorine added. 

I read somewhere that these fishes do not like strong current in tank as they usually do not experience this in the wild and in my tank, current flow is quite strong. I also noticed that fishes seems to hide among the plant most of the time. I suspect they are stressed due to the strong current from the filter. I now places a spongue at the filter output to brake the current and they seems to come out more and at ease. aAt least they stop darting aroung tank when light on/off or people walk pass.


I will continue to monitor. Is it possible that the death are stress related due to environment ( I am not referring to water condition)? Any comment?


thank you

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## Blue Whale

Cardinal are timid. They lost color when they are in a state of shock. In natural environment, they always school as a group and hide when predator like angel fishes come after them. Hence, it is a good idea to provide more hidding place with almost no disturbance in terms of water flow. And no, they do not survive well after ph6.8 mark. So what Felix say here make sense.

If you do not have materials, put a cup in first. they can hide inside.

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## tetrakid

Strong current in a tank is indeed an issue. Just as we wouldn't want to live in a place where there's a constant gale blowing all the time, fish also need a tranquil and non-stressful environment.

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## Blue Whale

> Strong current in a tank is indeed an issue. Just as we wouldn't want to live in a place where there's a constant gale blowing all the time, fish also need a tranquil and non-stressful environment.


Nope. Depends on fish type. Luohan, Arrowana certainly don't mind the current. SNAP! if you put your hand in. I always put my hand in. ^^Y Yeah...so the last one who challenged my LuoHan, beg me to bring his one out of the tank. My baby luohan was 1 month old only back then. Size of a phalange (Section) of a finger. See target, lock on to target, then force the opponent to one corner, ready to strike.

Likewise, Angel fish won't mind the current as well. Shrimps, most tetras, will mind but shrimps designed to travel against current. Cory hides, Eels hide. Yamato hide and strike. Wood Shrimp...love it.

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## Eric9013

I have experience on wiped out of 100pcs in 2 weeks due to insufficient premature water circulation in my new 5 x 2 x 2 tank while shifting to new house, base on my experience,

- Temperature does not really matter, I hit 30 degree celus while I dont have a chillier running, with 2 x 150watts metal halide running for 8hrs per day, Cardinal Tetra just get more active and eat more, grow fatter due o higher metabolism, surprisingly coloration was superb
- Schooling is compulsory (should have at least 10pce or more)
- PH 6.5 - 7
- Lighting would also contribute to stress level, recommended not more than 10 hours per day 
- Chloride removal and other substance should be avoid, only lot of black water 
- While transferring your new fishes into your tank, DO NOT ADD in the water in the bag from the Aquarium shop, only transfer the fish, water from the aquarium might be contaminated 
- Always try to put all fishes in the very first go, and not bit by bit every day, this way all fishes are new and reduce the stress of new comer 
- Hiding place or thick plant are recommended 
- what us your filtration substance?

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## tetrakid

That is true. I've ever heard about training wild Bettas by raising them in a custom flowing current. If I remember correctly, they grew up to be champion 'striker' Bettas, which always won in those old-time competitions.




> Nope. Depends on fish type. Luohan, Arrowana certainly don't mind the current. SNAP! if you put your hand in. I always put my hand in. ^^Y Yeah...so the last one who challenged my LuoHan, beg me to bring his one out of the tank. My baby luohan was 1 month old only back then. Size of a phalange (Section) of a finger. See target, lock on to target, then force the opponent to one corner, ready to strike.
> 
> Likewise, Angel fish won't mind the current as well. Shrimps, most tetras, will mind but shrimps designed to travel against current. Cory hides, Eels hide. Yamato hide and strike. Wood Shrimp...love it.

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## fookie

Thanks everyone for all the inputs and advise. Everything improve and now the tetra looks more relax and swims out more often. Appreciate all your helps.

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## tetrakid

Just a word of claification. Reducing strong current (turbulence) should not be done at the expense of aeration. In other words, one must always ensure there is adequate aeration, which is the most important factor in keeping fish going. This is where efficient aeration comes in. 



> Strong current in a tank is indeed an issue. Just as we wouldn't want to live in a place where there's a constant gale blowing all the time, fish also need a tranquil and non-stressful environment.

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## Blue Whale

> Thanks everyone for all the inputs and advise. Everything improve and now the tetra looks more relax and swims out more often. Appreciate all your helps.


Fookie, got a picture to show us? : )

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## fookie

> Fookie, got a picture to show us? : )


Will take some photo tonight.

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## fookie

> Just a word of claification. Reducing strong current (turbulence) should not be done at the expense of aeration. In other words, one must always ensure there is adequate aeration, which is the most important factor in keeping fish going. This is where efficient aeration comes in.


Noted. Thank you. Still in the process of fine tuning but things are definitely looking much better

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## fookie

> Will take some photo tonight.


As requested. Cardinal now more relax but colour still not as vibrant. Comments are welcome. 
photo.JPG

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## Blue Whale

> As requested. Cardinal now more relax but colour still not as vibrant.
> photo.JPG


You might want to consider reduce the dosage by 1/3 of what you are doing now. After the foreground plant fully spread, then readjust from there again.
The black piece is it a magnet cleaner? If so, remove from tank, you do not want algae to grow on it. Beside shrimp, any fish to eat the algae? If not, can consider intro 2-3 oto to be members of your town council. : > For extra, a little black water essence and fish vitamin (Liquid like AZoo Vitamin) is a plus point. ($12 or so for a bottle 250ml; can last 3 years).

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## fookie

> You might want to consider reduce the dosage by 1/3 of what you are doing now. After the foreground plant fully spread, then readjust from there again.
> The black piece is it a magnet cleaner? If so, remove from tank, you do not want algae to grow on it. Beside shrimp, any fish to eat the algae? If not, can consider intro 2-3 oto to be members of your town council. : > For extra, a little black water essence and fish vitamin (Liquid like AZoo Vitamin) is a plus point. ($12 or so for a bottle 250ml; can last 3 years).


Thanks for the advise. I noticed that the gill is a little red and seems to be slightly open. Is it normal? Breathing is normal and fish is calm

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## Blue Whale

> Thanks for the advise. I noticed that the gill is a little red and seems to be slightly open. Is it normal? Breathing is normal and fish is calm


Sounds normal to me. Now in the night, if they are not active, color is usually slightly dull. In the case of shock, they turn pale. So pretty timid little guys, that's why they tend to hide in the night. A bit of treat, they come out dancing with colors.....even if you stuck your face on the tank. Hee. They need time to get use to you too. Even switching lights off can scare them...very timid.

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## fookie

Hi All,

Thank you for all the advise on this matter. Now all the cardinals are doing very well in the tank. They are getting very comfortable, not hiding anymore and even come up to the surface for food.

photo.jpg

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