# General > Member's Lounge > Photography >  Please HELP a new photographer

## Weirong

Here's the story. I don't know too much about photography BUT I do know it's time to change all my old digital cameras already.  :Laughing:  

I have done a bit of reading and I have decided to get a Canon Powershot cos I wouldn't know how to use an EOS even if you gave me one. 

There are so many but which one to get? I'm getting a camera that should be able to take aquarium shots of reasonable quality. 

Budget is below SGD$1000. A few that have caught my big brown eyes : A620, A700, S80. 

So to sum everything up:

Brand: Canon
Type: Powershot
Budget: Under $1K
Uses: Aquarium shots and moving targets  :Grin:  

Any recommendations is greatly appreciated. I know there are quite a few pro shooters here, so let me know if there's any tips. Many Thanks!

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## hwchoy

aquarium shot as in fish or the whole tank?

anyway the whole thing depends on your expectation lah. cannot expect buffalo to run like horse.

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## Weirong

I'm looking at fish shots! But no need SLR quality lah. Just enough for a decent clear shot. I'm just a beginner at this so I really am not asking for too much.

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## hwchoy

the problem is not just the cam, but the accessories. do realise that what you want is not something simple. most people end up with blurry shots because of several reasons. primary among them is basically the user has not tried to be proficient with their camera before attempting a clear fish shot.

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## Weirong

I'm not even looking at accessories yet.  :Laughing:  Does that mean I will exceed my $1k budget? Actually money is not the problem here. I just don't want something too complicated to use.

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## hwchoy

the usual thing, how do you get enough light for a clear shot. how to restrict the fish from swimming all over the place, are you satisfied with your fish occupying a corner of the picture? etc etc

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## Weirong

Is standard aquarium lights enough? 
Would I face that much problem if I were shooting plants? I'm more likely to shoot more plants than fish, most of the time. But I really don't want to get a bulky SLR... :Knockout:

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## hwchoy

plants don't move mah. if your fishes don't move, like loaches, pleco etc then is OK.

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## valice

From my short experience with shooting aquatic plants and fish... I can say that flash is the most impt accessory you must have if you want to take decent photos... I took 60+ shots to get a sharp image of a fish without flash, but only need 1 shot to do the same with a flash in hand..

It is the same with plants... You can use a tripod if you dun have flash... But the true colour of the plants might not be there if you purely depend on the aquarium lights... This is because the aquarium lights has different spectrum... Some more red or more green... It will affect the end picture...

My 2 cents...

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## Weirong

Meaning I should be able to take reasonable closeup shots of plants in the aquarium?

So which Powershot is recommended?  :Grin:

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## hwchoy

anything with manual control is good.

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## benny

> But I really don't want to get a bulky SLR...


There was a used Canon EOS 350D digital SLR going for only S$1150. Pretty close to your budget and definitely NOT big and bulky. Better than most compact digital cameras.

Valice gave some pretty good user's comments and all very valid in my opinion and experience.

Alternatively, buy a used Canon Powershot G5 and use the surplus budget for flash and cords/transmitter.

Cheers,

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## Green Baron

Canon Powershots are good cameras. Get the best you can afford, if possible the G series (G6/5) if you are not considering SLR. Don't go for those ultra compact and thin cameras. They look slick but photo quality is  :Boo:

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## hwchoy

yah, in fact it was too small for me 

wah $1150 very low for a quite new cam huh?

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## Weirong

> There was a used Canon EOS 350D digital SLR going for only S$1150. Pretty close to your budget and definitely NOT big and bulky. Better than most compact digital cameras.
> 
> Valice gave some pretty good user's comments and all very valid in my opinion and experience.
> 
> Alternatively, buy a used Canon Powershot G5 and use the surplus budget for flash and cords/transmitter.
> 
> Cheers,


Used Canon EOS 350D? Where? I don't know if I can handle this. As long as it's not too difficult to use.

Flash and cords/transmitter???  :Shocked:  Benny, please try not to confuse me. You know I know nuts about cameras.... haha

Yes, I really appreciate all the tips! So keep them coming!

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## benny

If you can't use a simple entry level digital SLR, you can't use an advance compact digital camera either. 

No short cuts to good pictures. It all about the technique and setup, not about the camera and the settings.

Cheers,

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## ranmasatome

The problem with DSLR is the lenses... some of the lense cost more than the camera itself..
If you are on a thight budget..you can try the G6 or G5...they are good enough..
right now i'm using a G6.. still not too proficient with it but i'm learning to slowly catcha few techniques.. also hopefully when Choy is free he can give me a few tips on using this...*hint* *hint*..kekeke  :Grin: 

Anyway.. you can check out my pix at the apisto gathering post.. i'm gonig to post some pics up in the next 5-10 mins.. all were taken with the G6 and a 550ex flash. All were my VERY FIRST fish shots with the camera.. :Smile:

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## valice

> yah, in fact it was too small for me 
> 
> wah $1150 very low for a quite new cam huh?


Wah! So cheap ar??!! Piangz...
Choy, too small can get the batt grip... Then can be like a 1DMk2 liaoz...  :Grin: 

Sorry for the OT...

Back to the topic, you might want to consider getting a 2nd hand one if you feel that jumping into the pool with a new one is too much... A DSLR will open up alot of opportunity for you in the long run...

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## valice

> also hopefully when Choy is free he can give me a few tips on using this...*hint* *hint*..kekeke


Can I join in?  :Laughing:

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## benny

> All were my VERY FIRST fish shots with the camera..


You forgot about the _Corydoras pantanalensis_ ah?

Cheers,

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## hwchoy

> Choy, too small can get the batt grip... Then can be like a 1DMk2 liaoz...


even with batt grip still too small. A-cup means A-cup, even after maximizering still A+.

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## hwchoy

> all were taken with the G6 *and a 550ex flash*.



herein lies the secret.

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## Weirong

> If you can't use a simple entry level digital SLR, you can't use an advance compact digital camera either. 
> 
> No short cuts to good pictures. It all about the technique and setup, not about the camera and the settings.
> 
> Cheers,


Point noted.  :Well done:  
Of course, not one is a born photographer. The reason I don't want to get an advanced camera is I will never get the time to learn how to use it. It will surely become obsolete by the time I do.  :Laughing:  

I don't want to get something where I have to add lens, this and that later on, because once I do, I know I'm hooked and I won't be able to get out!

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## Weirong

> The problem with DSLR is the lenses... some of the lense cost more than the camera itself..
> If you are on a thight budget..you can try the G6 or G5...they are good enough..
> right now i'm using a G6.. still not too proficient with it but i'm learning to slowly catcha few techniques.. also hopefully when Choy is free he can give me a few tips on using this...*hint* *hint*..kekeke 
> 
> Anyway.. you can check out my pix at the apisto gathering post.. i'm gonig to post some pics up in the next 5-10 mins.. all were taken with the G6 and a 550ex flash. All were my VERY FIRST fish shots with the camera..


Yes, I have seen your shots! Pretty good for me and that's about where I'm heading.

I'm not on a budget but I don't want to spend too much either. So how much is that 550ex flash thing? The only flash I have used before comes from the camera!  :Embarassed:

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## benny

> Point noted.  
> Of course, not one is a born photographer. The reason I don't want to get an advanced camera is I will never get the time to learn how to use it. It will surely become obsolete by the time I do.  
> 
> I don't want to get something where I have to add lens, this and that later on, because once I do, I know I'm hooked and I won't be able to get out!


weirong,

I think you missed the point totally.

If you know the simple technique and have the right equipment, getting pictures are very easy. The guys have seen how easy it is to make it "one shot one kill". Those at the recent Apistogramma gathering can easily testify to that.

No need to spend ten long years to master any secret technique. There isn't any.

Cheers,

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## Weirong

> weirong,
> 
> If you know the simple technique and have the right equipment, getting pictures are very easy. The guys have seen how easy it is to make it "one shot one kill". Those at the recent Apistogramma gathering can easily testify to that.
> 
> No need to spend ten long years to master any secret technique. There isn't any.


Simple technique? A camera is actually tougher for me to handle than the SAR21 I handled in camp.  :Laughing:  
I really can't shoot with a camera to save myself.

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## ranmasatome

except 2 420ex for my purposes..hahaha...
that cory not counted la... :Very Happy:  i posting pictures now..kekeke.. afterwards go see ah..

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## hwchoy

> Simple technique? A camera is actually tougher for me to handle than the SAR21 I handled in camp.  
> I really can't shoot with a camera to save myself.



I don't mind exchanging my used G5 with your used SAR-21

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## benny

> Simple technique? A camera is actually tougher for me to handle than the SAR21 I handled in camp.  
> I really can't shoot with a camera to save myself.


Ok....Don't say never teach you. Here is how we do it.

01. Spot subject
02. Keep subject in viewfinder
03. Focus
04. Press shutter release
05. Repeat as often as desired.

Cheers,

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## Weirong

> I don't mind exchanging my used G5 with your used SAR-21


I'm a businessman but I don't have any lobang for firearms yet. But you will be the first one I contact if I secure one!  :Grin:

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## valice

> So how much is that 550ex flash thing?


For a used one.. It is in the range of $450... Then you will either need the IR transmitter or a cable to position the lights so that it is not a direct hit but more as an illumination...

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## hwchoy

> Ok....Don't say never teach you. Here is how we do it.
> 
> 01. Spot subject
> 02. Keep subject in viewfinder
> 03. Focus
> 04. Press shutter release
> 05. Repeat as often as desired.
> 
> Cheers,



sarlah!

firer, camera of 1GB load.firer, adopt firing position, cock and readyfirer, watch your fishfirer, own time own fish, fire!

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## Weirong

> Ok....Don't say never teach you. Here is how we do it.
> 
> 01. Spot subject
> 02. Keep subject in viewfinder
> 03. Focus
> 04. Press shutter release
> 05. Repeat as often as desired.
> 
> Cheers,


Simple enough... I can follow this procedure with a Powershot and above model right? 

But I can't seem to shoot clearly with all the lower end 4.0mpx cameras.

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## hwchoy

actually shoot camera also use the same rifle firing technique, especially in low light.

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## Weirong

> For a used one.. It is in the range of $450... Then you will either need the IR transmitter or a cable to position the lights so that it is not a direct hit but more as an illumination...


This IR transmitter/cable thing is quite chim for me... 
I'm already taking a direct hit to my head with the information. Is there a good place where I can get more information about this?

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## benny

> Is there a good place where I can get more information about this?


Yes. At C328.

Cheers,

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## Weirong

> Yes. At C328.
> 
> Cheers,


C328 SELLS CAMERAS???  :Shocked:   :Shocked:   :Shocked:

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## benny

> C328 SELLS CAMERAS???


Anything to do with fish they will sell. They now have fish photography packages for Canon 30D with ST-E2 wireless transmitter and a 580EX speedlite thrown in. Just under 3 K. Just kidding!!!

On a more serious note, we hang out there quite often. You can come chat with us.

Cheers,

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## Weirong

> Anything to do with fish they will sell. They now have fish photography packages for Canon 30D with ST-E2 wireless transmitter and a 580EX speedlite thrown in. Just under 3 K. Just kidding!!!
> 
> On a more serious note, we hang out there quite often. You can come chat with us.
> 
> Cheers,


U almost got me there.... 

I will try to but I'm usually in the North because my office is in Sembawang and I live in Yishun! Also, it's not that convenient without a driving license...

Will keep you updated after I go around town to look at the cameras. Btw, where's a good place to get one?

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## ranmasatome

A place near Yishun... Ang mo kio... MScolour

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## benny

> A place near Yishun... Ang mo kio... MScolour



BINGO!!

Cheers,

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## ranmasatome

OR you can try clubsnap...kekeke

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## valice

> A place near Yishun... Ang mo kio... MScolour


MS Colour also got a branch in Yishun... So up to you which one you wanna go... Check out clubsnap for locations of other more popular camera shops... Prices might be cheaper...

Btw, we are not affiliated to them in anyway but just find them friendly and prices are competitive to others...

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## ranmasatome

i may be going to cathay today (monday) if you wanna come..
just to see see..

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## hwchoy

> i may be going to cathay today (monday) if you wanna come..
> just to see see..


no I very busy. hey why don't you come over to Suntec Tower Two? I pass you the adaptor (I actually left it in the office). if you can bring the tetras also good.

ring me 98571222.

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## ranmasatome

Haiz.. i talking to weirong leh....hahahaha.. :Grin:

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## hwchoy

> Haiz.. i talking to weirong leh....hahahaha..



doesn't matter lah, go CP liao then jalan over to suntec loh.

btw any idea where to by ADA stuff? I look for pollen glass.

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## Weirong

> i may be going to cathay today (monday) if you wanna come..
> just to see see..


Hi ranmasatome, where exactly? I'm quite busy in office for the early half of the day and then I have to go to NA to fill up all my gas before Mr. Chan closes for holiday. But I should be able to make it after than, say after 3pm? 
Give me a buzz at 97857957. Thanks.

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## Green Baron

> Used Canon EOS 350D? Where? I don't know if I can handle this. As long as it's not too difficult to use.
> 
> Flash and cords/transmitter???  Benny, please try not to confuse me. You know I know nuts about cameras.... haha
> 
> Yes, I really appreciate all the tips! So keep them coming!


In this case I would suggest you start with the Prosumer G series. A good start combination is a 2nd hand G4/G5 maybe a compatible Sigma 500DG flash. This combi should be around your budget and can be purchased from ClubSnap Buy/Sell section but you need to wait. If you are in a hurry, then go for the G5 if it is still available, if not new G6.

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## benny

Canon does not have a Powershot G4.

Cheers,

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## hwchoy

> In this case I would suggest you start with the Prosumer G series. A good start combination is a 2nd hand G4/G5 maybe a compatible Sigma 500DG flash. This combi should be around your budget and can be purchased from ClubSnap Buy/Sell section but you need to wait. If you are in a hurry, then go for the G5 if it is still available, if not new G6.



G3 lah, there's no G4.  :Grin:

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## hwchoy

> Hi ranmasatome, where exactly? I'm quite busy in office for the early half of the day and then I have to go to NA to fill up all my gas before Mr. Chan closes for holiday. But I should be able to make it after than, say after 3pm? 
> Give me a buzz at 97857957. Thanks.


no need to kancheong, can always fill up at Bioplast mah.

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## Weirong

> no need to kancheong, can always fill up at Bioplast mah.


Bioplast is way out for me. NA nearer. I'm filling a 10l cylinder...

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## Green Baron

> Canon does not have a Powershot G4.
> 
> Cheers,


Just testing to see if anyone is paying attention  :Grin:  Yes, it should be G3.

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## hwchoy

> Just testing to see if anyone is paying attention  Yes, it should be G3.

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## BFG

> Just testing to see if anyone is paying attention  Yes, it should be G3.


yeah right..... :Roll Eyes:  

 :Laughing:   :Laughing:   :Laughing:

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## ranmasatome

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ight=powershot

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ight=powershot

Nah.. links for the lazy.. :Smile:

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## Weirong

> Nah.. links for the lazy..



For me???  :Grin:  Thanks!

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## Weirong

After all the considerations and looking around for lobangs... 

I have finally decided to settle for a 2nd hand Canon 300D!  :Grin:  
Will be meeting the potential seller tomorrow!

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## Green Baron

Congrats and good luck !

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## benny

> After all the considerations and looking around for lobangs... 
> 
> I have finally decided to settle for a 2nd hand Canon 300D!  
> Will be meeting the potential seller tomorrow!



Don't forget to budget for a flash!! A Canon Speedlite 420EX cost about S$250 used.

Cheers,

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## valice

And a ST-E2 if you decide to shoot fish after shooting plants... Price ranging from $280 to $330... Depending on lobangs...

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## valice

> Don't forget to budget for a flash!! A Canon Speedlite 420EX cost about S$250 used.
> 
> Cheers,


And I just got my 550EX for $450 too... Still waiting for the ST-E2... But now a 1 shot 1 kill already... Need to tune colouring though...

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## benny

> now a 1 shot 1 kill already...


Choy!!!

This one ready! Can recruit for Hexazona already!

Cheers,

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## hwchoy

> Choy!!!
> 
> This one ready! Can recruit for Hexazona already!
> 
> Cheers,



ah. so he is ready to go into the Danio shooting training?  :Grin:

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## benny

> ah. so he is ready to go into the Danio shooting training?


Hello!!

Since when do Primary 1 students take PSLE exams?

Cheers,

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## hwchoy

> Hello!!
> 
> Since when do Primary 1 students take PSLE exams?
> 
> Cheers,



oh OK, rasbora training programme first?  :Opps:

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## valice

Danios?! Kaoz... They are like speeding bullets in the tank! My 1 shot 1 kill is my _Dicrossus_ who happily posed for me just now... Not like my 60+ shots 1 kill before flash... Hahaha... Me kindergarten only...

Hopefully I pass with my own rasboras... Hee...

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## ranmasatome

kekeeke...i upgraded my budget to include 2x 420ex and 1x550ex today.

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## hwchoy

> kekeeke...i upgraded my budget to include 2x 420ex and 1x550ex today.



don't forget to budget for batteries  :Smile:

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## valice

> kekeeke...i upgraded my budget to include 2x 420ex and 1x550ex today.


Woohoo! So you managed to get your 420EX?

Talking about batteries, any recommendations?

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## Weirong

The set I'm looking at has the standard items in box and the following:

Kit lens EF-S 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 (with Hoya filter)
Original Canon lens hood for the kit lens
BG-E1 battery grip
2 x original Canon battery + 1 x 3rd party battery(High capacity)
Wired remote control

but no CF card...

I'm thinking of getting a Canon 550ex but is it an overkill???

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## ranmasatome

batteries i already bought.. :Grin:  

i show you PSLE results after i hit 30,000 okay?? hahaha

Weirong..if you're just going to shoot plants and ONLY plants..420 is enough.. but the thing is when you wanna move on in the hobby.. might as well get a 550 from the get go.

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## Justikanz

Wah!! Valice... You got flash liao!...

Haiz... It's either Taiwan or Flash for me after the May giveout...  :Opps:

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## valice

> i show you PSLE results after i hit 30,000 okay?? hahaha


ranma, let's "study" hard and hopefully pass to get our PSLE certificates...  :Laughing:

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## Weirong

> Weirong..if you're just going to shoot plants and ONLY plants..420 is enough.. but the thing is when you wanna move on in the hobby.. might as well get a 550 from the get go.


That's what I thought! It's almost impossible not to upgrade as I find the cameras and accessories too tempting to ignore....  :Laughing:

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## valice

Why don't you dive straight into a 550EX instead of getting a 420EX? If you find it of no use, you can then sell it again in future... It is quite a popular flash, so should be easy to sell...

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## ranmasatome

> That's what I thought! It's almost impossible not to upgrade as I find the cameras and accessories too tempting to ignore....


Good luck when you get lenses..kekeke :Very Happy:

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## Justikanz

Valice... Think I will need your help to hunt for flash soon... Haha...  :Laughing: 

And 'Good Luck!' and 'Have fun!' to Weirong in his search for these super cash suckers... haha...  :Razz:  But they are worth it lah, after you seen the results...  :Smile:

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## Weirong

I have a 300D without a CF card!  :Laughing:  Want to test my camera right now!!!

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## valice

Saw your post in CS... Think it was very worthed it although it was a 300D... Enjoy your new toy!  :Wink:

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## Weirong

Yah, not too bad a deal. And the seller even came down to Yishun to explain to me how to use it and all. 
So all I have to do is get a 1GB CF card and a bag to get started! Any suggestions on the bag?

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## valice

Why don't you invest more than a 1GB card? I think now there is a 2GB or 4GB right? Hahha...

Seems like Lowepro and Crumpler are the more common and popular ones...

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## valice

> Oh yah, forgot that you guys have regular working hours. But I don't think I will be free after that. Sigh...


Instead of going to Sim Lim, maybe you can check out Peninsula Plaza instead... Got a number of camera shops at level 1 there... Might have more choices... And CP, which is the sole distributor of Lowepro, got an outlet there i think...

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## Weirong

But the priority is the CF card! Otherwise I can't shoot anything! So I still need to go to Sim Lim! Cannot siam!

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## Justikanz

Peninsular has a shop selling CF cards rather cheap... Eh, can't remember the name... Maybe Simon can recommend... He recommended me the shop some time back...

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## Simon

for CF, try eastgear on 2nd level , you can also check out the 3rd party batteries there.

for bag, i recommend either Cathay Photo at ground floor or TKfoto at shaw leisure

recommended bag, stealth reporter 200 AW and above, please do get a bigger bag for future expansion (I learnt my lesson :P)

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## Weirong

> for CF, try eastgear on 2nd level , you can also check out the 3rd party batteries there.
> 
> for bag, i recommend either Cathay Photo at ground floor or TKfoto at shaw leisure
> 
> recommended bag, stealth reporter 200 AW and above, please do get a bigger bag for future expansion (I learnt my lesson :P)


I just got my CF card (2.0GB) $125, Tripod and Lowepro bag $50, and 550EX $450  :Knockout:  

Should have everything to get started?

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## benny

> I just got my CF card (2.0GB) $125, Tripod and Lowepro bag $50, and 550EX $450  
> 
> Should have everything to get started?


Canon ST-E2 wireless speedlite transmitter?

Cheers,

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## Simon

tripod and bag for $50?? ain't that abit too low? beware of inferior quality tripod and topples when the wind blows :P

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## Weirong

> tripod and bag for $50?? ain't that abit too low? beware of inferior quality tripod and topples when the wind blows :P


I think it's cos the guy has no use for it, so he let go of it cheap. I tested the tripod at home and it's quite. 
Will bring the stuff down to the Greenchapter showroom tomorrow and ask the experts.  :Grin:

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