# Killies Import > Non-Killie Segment >  Hamburger Matten Filter & Styrene tank covers

## zmzfam

Hi people,

any of you using or has tried using this filtration method?

The link : Hamburger MattenFilter

Similar to the sponge filter except the surface area is bigger and no need to wash the filter foam.

What's your comment?

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## kc

Ah! Why I never thought of that! Not a bad idea.

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## zmzfam

If you'd read through the translated article, the originator is using it for his killi tanks. Some calculations are also given if you want to do your own calculation. This method can be used using powerheads and also air-pump.

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## francis

That`s a very interesting idea.So the most important factor in this case is the flow rate?I will try it out in my office`s tank  :Very Happy:  Thanks for the link.

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## ruyle

I was wondering if any of you guys have built this type of filter and if you
have pics showing construction. The location depicted requires joining
ALL WET THUMB forum to see. Looks like an ideal planted tank filter that
would blend in with few hardware warts showing  :Smile:  This should be moved
to either the planted tank or non-killie forum  :Wink:

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## zmzfam

Ah, on old post before the 'Non-Killies' sub-forum was created.

Here's a direct link http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitrae...ttenfilter.htm. The ALL WET THUMB forum is in English whereas the original article is in German.

I'll be moving this to the Planted Tank section soon.

Some links to the pics

http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-1-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-2-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-3-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-4-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-5-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-6-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-7-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-8-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-9-600.jpg
http://www.deters-ing.de/Gastbeitraege/EMF-10-600.jpg

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## TyroneGenade

This is hardly a new method but rather a modification of an old one. Where previously the sponges would of be shoved into trickle filter compartment or side filters made of glass here the side filter is glass. I had a friend who used to purchase 30 x 30 cm pieces of foam to shove into his 30 wide x 35 cm high tanks and then pump water from one side of the sponge into the rest of the tank using an air driven sponger filter uplift tube. Another friend took it one step further and made his own high power air driven uplifts. These things could suck up large bits of gravel!

Essentially he would take a lenght of electrical conduit (the white tubing), heat 1 end till soft and then slip it over another piece so the 2 fitted inside each other. This he would leave to harden. The bottom piece (that the 1st piece was slipped over) was then modified by having a circular ring/depression edged into it from which vertical depressions were then made running up. In the top piece a whole was bored in which a piece pf rigid air line could be inserted. This was positioned such that it was directly opposite the circular depression in the bottom half. Air is then pumped into this depression which then exits via the verticle depressions. In the join the diffuses to form a curtain of air running up the tube. This creates a fast current (less turbulance than with bubbles moving up) that sucks up large volumes of water. It was calculated that it could move as much as 300 L per hour using an aquarium air compressor or even a Halipai (watched it fill a 250 ml cup in about 3 seconds at a 10 cm height above the fishtank's water level)...

Here is a picture of what I'm tyring to explain above:


regards

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## RonWill

> Another friend took it one step further and made his own high power air driven uplifts. These things could suck up large bits of gravel!
> 
> Essentially he would take a lenght of electrical conduit (the white tubing), heat 1 end till soft and then slip it over another piece so the 2 fitted inside each other. This he would leave to harden. The bottom piece (that the 1st piece was slipped over) was then modified by having a circular ring/depression edged into it from which vertical depressions were then made running up. In the top piece a whole was bored in which a piece pf rigid air line could be inserted....


Tyrone,
I still cannot figure how this design of airlift is constructed. Please elaborate further as I may want to incorporate it into my MattenFilter tanks.

Folks,
The 'Hamburger MattenFilter/*Henri deBruyn*' combo tank is completed (those roundtuits arrived!  :Laughing:  )

Images should be self-explanatory. (Clickable as always)






Two such tanks were set up. One house a reversed trio of _Chromaphyosemion splendopleure_ C 89/15 Muyuka Police Station and the other, 2 pairs of _Aphyosemion hera_ (recent post by Jian Yang).

I used small 5w powerheads instead of airlift as the noise level from the airpump was not acceptable (it isn't real noisy pe se but a muffle over it would be nice).

Time to rig yours up, Bill  :Wink: 

SIDE NOTE:
Zul, now that we have a Non-Killie sub-forum, I'm moving this. This thread is more fish-relevant than plants  :Wink:

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## FC

Fantastic idea! Simple to build, effective and easy to maintain.
I will do one ...

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## ruyle

> Time to rig yours up, Bill


Ron, that looks like a powerful combination!  :Cool:  Are you laying in substrate
or bare bottom? What bogged me down on the hamburger is finding the
right foam that was dark-colored and the right porosity. What size tank
is this? Looks like a 10g....

Bill

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## Green Baron

Do you guys know if those dark colour foam used for packing computer accessories can be used for this purpose ?

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## RonWill

Bill,
The tanks in question measures 24"L x 12"W x 14"H and volume is 66 Litres or 17.5 Gallon when filled to the brim. (What are the dimensions for a 'standard US 10g' tank?)

A combo of 2 hypothetically proven filtration system is indeed awesome but I figured that for a low-maintenance species tank, that might be my ticket.

Regarding porosity, it was mentioned in the provided links, that both fine and coarse pore density foam will work but the time taken for nitrifying bacterial colonies to establish will vary (IIRC, somewhat longer for coarse media). Still, I have good vibes and if nothing fouls up, I'll rig up another 4 more similar setups.

For myself, I opted to paint the bottom and back panel of the tank in black. When matched with a black foam, it literally became a "no-can-see-MattenFilter"... quite literally (and I'm quite pleased with the effect).

*SIDE NOTE:
Due to a series of circumstances, I'm forced to cut back on my tank count. Minimal maintenance has become a priority and I might reluctantly take a hiatus from the hobby.

In the event that I'm unable to update the progress personally, I'll try to have Jian Yang or another volunteer to fill in the details.

If the worst case senario becomes a reality, I'll attend to all outstanding issues prior to my (hopefully) temporary departure from the forum.*

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## ruyle

Ron, 
A standard 10: 20" x 10" x12"high. The 17.5gal in your pics looks in scale
to that, which threw me off  :Opps:  Hopin' things turn out that you don't
have to take an hiatus, but if so, a speedy and safe return!

Bill

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## RonWill

Bill,
In terms of ratio (or scale), yes, the tank dimensions are deceiving but to date, the result from the combo is encouraging. Water is still crystal clear even though the next water change is due soon.

I had hoped that the hiatus would be brief but at the rate that prevailing circumstances are going, that would be unlikely. Still, I hope to see your continued support to the forum and my best wishes in your future endeavours.

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## RonWill

Folks,
The topic of acrylic tank covers was discussed briefly in the _striatum_ thread but since it was going off-topic, I'd continue the 'cover story' here.

Styrene sheets do come in differring thickness and in the event that thinner ones are used (because they're also easier to cut and finish), the resultant covers can and will sag if there's insufficient support.


This 'half-cover' is supported only at the ends. Sag is obvious.


A rib of stiff material prevents the sag but by itself, is not strong enough to support lighting. I'm not sure what the red plastic thing is but I found it in the dumps and recycled it. The Henri filter is behind the cover, forming the 'other half'. At the bottom right corner of the pic, I made a small loop from cable-tie to serve as a handle.


Reinforcement with ribbing is fairly simple with cable ties. Note feeding holes on the right.

For anything longer than 2 feet, I'd suggest using either PVC pipes or aluminum right-angled profiles. These should be strong enough to support a small light.

For maintenance and ease of feeding, one can consider using two halves to cover the entire tank. The rear half will have provision/holes for filter hose, wire and air-tubings. This is one half that we'd seldom bother with.

The other half at the front allows us to shuffle things around, feed, access for siphoning etc. Feeding holes, that a turkey baster tip can fit in, is convenient too. Just make sure that the holes aren't too big (diameter of an air-tubing is just right).

Those who have permanent partitions in their tank might not need the ribs but it is easier to divide the 'front covers' into 2 or 3 pieces (depending on how wide apart the partitions are fixed). That way, one doesn't have to lift a long stretch of styrene or worry about the other killies jumping off while you're working at the other end of the tank.

Not a sales pitch  :Wink:  
Due to my tank cut-back, it now seems that I've over-ordered on the styrene panels. These measure 2ft x 4ft and I think I've 4 extras at $10 per panel. Interested parties contact me via email.

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## RonWill

Dear all,
Owing to other priorities, I'm slowly converting my low maintenance to adopt dual-filtration design, so that water quality does not deteriorate too quickly.

Here's the 2nd 'Hamburger MattenFilter/Henri deBruyn' combo.

This 24"L x 12"W x 12"H tank was partitioned with a 2cm gap at the base to allow a UGF plate to slip through, effectively an under-flow circulation from left to right partition. The plate will also help minimize substrate compacting and clogging. Corner MattenFilter was completed as per earlier links provided by Zul.


Top view with styrene partition covers and OHF (OverHead Filter) half-filled with packing peanuts. (It adds volume without thinning my wallet  :Opps:  The Henri filter is mainly for cooling, not bio-filtration. Besides, the huge foam filter will have adequate surface area for bacterial colonies)


Remaining top-half is filled with Eheim's 'Ehfi Lav'. Capillary action within the filter wool, will help distribute water throughout the length of the OHF.


'L-shaped' plastic profiles help support the styrene covers along the glass partition. The gravel was layered midway... then realized I didn't have enough  :Shocked:   :Confused:  


Within the MattenFilter, I used another sponge to support the powerhead off the tank's bottom, which in time, will be filled with mulm (which will house more nitrifying bacteria). A low consumption 5W Eden 304 will deliver a rated 220~240 Litre/hr to the Henri (with limited max. head, less output is expected)

 Closer look *here*.
One of the six tanks in the study using 'Corner MattenFilter'. Two other tanks are already using MF, but takes up a whole width of the tank, as constructed earlier.

Anybody else using this 'Hamburger MattenFilter/Henri deBruyn' combo? I like it. Bill, what about you?

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## ruyle

Haven't tried this combo, yet, Ronnie, but it does look interesting. Nice
rack system you got there! There's a pond supply place nearby that has
the foam I want for the Matten but they charge an arm and a leg for it.
I'll be checking online for hopefully a better deal.

I would like to hear your feedback on this combo, how often you waterchange, etc.

Bill

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## RonWill

An update...

Air circulation in the study isn't as windy as my open access corridor and the best temp achieved for the latest Henri/Mattenfilter tank is 28ºC/82ºF.


Light load during cycling, low 9w PL lighting and the plants (hornwort and java fern) are doing ok. No water change since setting up and evaporation is negligible.

Bill, IMHO, worth looking into and hope you find suitable sponge material soon. Water is crystal clear (really!).

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## ruyle

> Bill, IMHO, worth looking into and hope you find suitable sponge material soon. Water is crystal clear (really!).


Ronnie, I like the whole look of your rack system! Plants look very healthy,
too. You're not running any CO2 on these tanks(?) If there was a way to
build the de Bruyn where I didn't use such a large trough (the white 
raingutter) I'd probably build more of them, but gawd, they are an eyesore!
I've been looking for narrower, smaller boxes for the deBruyn of a more
topical color, even clear plastic would be good. Having them narrower
would allow more light into the tank, too: the white raingutter takes up
nearly a third of the top of a 10 gallon tank  :Rolling Eyes:  So now my quest is
twofold, the sponge, and the smaller trough  :Wink:  

Your rack system looks like a library of tanks, instead of books  :Cool:  

Bill

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## RonWill

Bill, none of the 6 tanks are CO² fertilized and the whole system is actually 2 sets of 3 tier racks standing side by side. With the exception of the top 2 tanks, 18" height, the rest are 12 inches. I plan to partition all tanks by halves, effectively giving me 12 'cubes'.

Here's a semi-completed look of the entire rack


If you're considering clear plastic drip boxes, please wait up for my next Henri/MattenFilter tank.

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## RonWill

Folks,
I'm very pleased with the results so far, here's another combo  :Wink:  

The cost of Eheim's lava rock media becomes prohibiting when we're talking of more setups, so I decided to try expanded clay pellets and bought a huge 50-Litre sack of it!  :Shocked:  
 

This time, a straight corner filter. The ends are cut slanted.


Through-view and top of sponge layout. Supports are from salvaged L-profiles.
  

A grey stiff L-profile lays across the tank's rim to support the Henri filter.


Large ventilation holes are drilled along the length of the OHF. Plastic mesh is used to prevent clay pellets from falling out. Two cable-ties help to keep the OHF in shape (from bulging)


Drilling holes throughout the entire bottom of the OHF gets tiring after a while, so I cheated. The tube extensions, sticking out, reduces splatter and noise.


I found half a bag of smaller clay pellets and decided to lay that first, followed by larger ones.


With the lower OHF filled, the clear 'Tom' brand tray now sits snugly (This clear tray *does not* sit squarely on all black OHFs)


Drip trough sitting over the clay pellets and dark grey gravel filled over the UGF plates.


Roughly planted some java fern into the gravel and letting the rest of the _Egeria najas_ float around (the _E. najas_ is very similar to _E. densa_ except for the slimmer leaves)

A closer look at the two partitions *here*.

The rack in the study with another 4 tanks to be partitioned.

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## RonWill

oh... before I forget...
Someone asked if the white casing (used in the earlier curved corner filter) looked ugly and huge.

To answer that, yes it is (to an extent). I could have painted it matt black to match the sponge but there is time constraint.

Of course, one can also use plants to hide and make it more pleasant.

A driftwood with _anubias_ and a small clump of _windelov_ does wonders (but I'm sure others can do better  :Wink:  )

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## FC

Ron,
Very well thought-out setup - absolutely well done!  ::smt038:  
It's not coincidence that you have crystal clear water, with that ultra-low water flow per HMF filter medium area, you get good vertical sentimentation. And need no maintenance for more than a year, I believe and so long you do not mind the mulm on the sponge wall. Stick some mosses there?
Why do you place the UGF plate there?  ::smt017:

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## RonWill

> Why do you place the UGF plate there?


Freddy, the slow flow is intended and 'required' for the HMF to work over a prolonged period (as stated in links provided by Zul in earlier posts).

As for the UGF, let me explain...

The partition is not sealed all the way and has a 1.5cm gap at the bottom, enough to slip through the UGF plate.

On the right 'compartment', water flows through the gravel and UGF as per conventional air-lift designs, then under the partition and onto the left. However as water enters the left 'compartment', it becomes a reverse flow UGF and any sediment or mulm that enters the HMF filter, remains minimal. Hopefully, that will cut me more slack in maintenance.

Of course, that doesn't mean I need not do water changes!  :Wink: 

You should try it some time and if you need help, gimme a holler.

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## FC

Ron,
You had gone too far...
You just rigged up the mother of all filteration systems - HMF, Henri, UGF. Reverse UGF, OHF  ::smt119:   ::smt032:   ::smt023:  . Probably just short of one...external canister  :k:  .
You can (afford to) slack and still be ... forgiven  :Cool:  .

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## RonWill

> Essentially he would take a lenght of electrical conduit (the white tubing), heat 1 end till soft and then slip it over another piece so the 2 fitted inside each other. This he would leave to harden. The bottom piece (that the 1st piece was slipped over) was then modified by having a circular ring/depression edged into it from which vertical depressions were then made running up. In the top piece a whole was bored in which a piece...


Tyrone, the present setups in the study steadies around 29ºC but it'd be nice to see a drop in another degree or two.

I suspect using air-lift, instead of small powerhead, might be the ticket but unclear how your friend does his (one that could suck up large bits of gravel!)

See if he can get some pics up. I'm game to try.

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## RonWill

Folks,
I've just completed implementing the Henri/MattenFilter filtration to the first of my 4footer. Largest project to date and probably will be the last 'pictorals' to be uploaded as I deal with some unexpected circumstances.

The rest of my tanks will be retrofitted similarly but no uploads, since they all follow the same guidelines. Those who are attempting the same thing should have more than enough *clickable* images to guide them but I should still be available to help with any doubts or construction process.


All the former killie residents were relocated elsewhere and the tank used to quarantine newly bought java fern, anubias and windelov ferns.


Medium porosity foam cut and ready to go.


A silicon gun will be much easier to use/control than dispensed from a tube.

=====================
*Nov 18th 2005*

Tank will be partitioned into 3 compartments from right to left; 24inches, 8inches and 16inches. I mistakenly bought the wrong size of UGF plates but decided to improvise. This was how I positioned the glass partition prior to silicon application.


Silicon application completed for the 2nd glass partition and while waiting for it to set, I worked on the black plastic profile (bracing for MattenFilter foam)


I'm testing a hypothesis on denitrification and siliconed the foam to the back wall of the tank. (Don't ask me now. If it works, you'll hear from me  :Rolling Eyes:  )


A emersed pump will be supported over the vacant corner behind the curved foam. A short piece of plastic profile is siliconed to the partition (near top right of pic)

 
A jig made from scraps, will help square up the profiles for drilling. Cable-ties were used to secure a supporting frame for the emersed pump.


With the pump frame in place, another supporting frame for the drip trays was contructed and trial fitted. On the right side, I have 2 trays on the frame to check for available clearance.

=====================
*Nov 19th 2005*

I used a quick-setting silicon and the next day, I started layering in the substrate. No one said I couldn't experiment, so 3 different materials were used; ADA Amazonia, construction-type gravel and Hydroton expanded clay.


In goes the plants while I decide how to rig up the water output manifold.

=====================
*Nov 20th 2005*

The output manifold has two T-joints, each feeding into a 3-tier stack of drip trays. I was expecting water distribution to be problematic but decided to try it anyway. I have a 8-way drip-distributor and incorporated it into the design.


The distributor will drip-feed emersed moss and other plants on driftwoods, like a paludarium (sp?).

 
I was working with very limited space and to utilize 2 sets of drip trays, some modification was needed, like so.

 
Trial run of the setup. Checking for leaks and possible overflow.

 
I removed the previous 3ft single FL light and replaced with a 2ft 2-bulb unit. This will allow me to use threaded Energy saving bulbs, 13w and 5w (on the right).

=====================
*Nov 21st 2005*

In the 3-tier drip stack, the lower 2 trays are modified with round vents for greater exposure to air and later filled with larger Hydroton clay pellets (instead of lava rocks).


A 2nd PL light was temporarily added for an overview and to decide what else to modify.


I should add that the results so far weren't too shabby.


I made an aluminium supporting frame to mount cooling fans and below this frame, there is a styrene guard to miminize water splatters. Hopefully this will prevent my 'Tornado fan' from premature rusting (more on the fan later). There are also splatter guards near the lights (electricity and water isn't my idea of fun  :Wink:  ).

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## stormhawk

Ron, from the looks of it you're using ADA Africana, instead of Amazonia, which is very dark grey to black in colour.

Hitting 25 degrees Celsius is quite a job but my 3 footer suddenly went 23.4 degrees Celsius with no Henri filter. Its a really cold night but my plants and fishes aren't complaining.  :Laughing:

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## RonWill

Jian Yang, the Monsoon season is a month late but it is finally here. Expect chilly nights... good for breeding killies and cuddling  :Rolling Eyes:  

Possible also, for tanks that receive good circulation, to hit 24ºC and lower. Then again, ambient temps determine how cool your tanks will be.

For the ADA, mine is from a sealed bag, so there's no mistaking 'Africana' for 'Amazonia' (*layered at both ends of the tank*).

BTW, Bill, I recall you looking for an alternative to rain gutters and this is a box-pic of the complete set (clear acrylic trays, filter floss, sponge and bio balls included).

It has an *emersed pump* that draws 10w but has good max head. Emersed also mean less heat being dissipated in the water column.

*[Edit]
Snafu with the repeat postings. WinDoze or forum server fell asleep with "No Post Mode Specified" & "Page cannot be viewed"* So I tried again and again and again...  :Opps:

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## ruyle

Ronnie, does it come in different sizes? Looks great!  :Wink: 

Bill

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## stormhawk

Ron, 11 repeat posts.  :Shocked:  I've deleted the extras but you have to decide which of your 2 remaining earlier posts is the correct one.

That said, did you use a combo of Africana and Amazonia? Because one section of the tank is uncannily "lighter brown", instead of Amazonia's dark grey/black colour.

Your image below:



Left hand side is a darker black colour, definitely Amazonia, whereas from the centre towards the right I see an orange-type colour mixed with the lapis gravel. Either my eyes are going bonkers or you're using 2 different types of Aquasoil.  :Shocked: 

Nice setup, I'll have to go down one of these days and have a look-see.  :Laughing:

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## RonWill

AFAIK, Bill, only one size available from this manufacturor. There are other brands sporting clear OHFs catering to 3~5feet tanks.




> Either my eyes are going bonkers or you're using 2 different types of Aquasoil.


 Colorful, isn't it?  :Laughing:  

Amazonia is on the left and rear right. The Lapis-like construction-grade gravel in the centre and the orangey stuff is Hydroton clay.

[Thanks for clearing up the mess. I have no idea what happened with the postings]

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## stormhawk

Ron, you can get fitting sets of drip trays at C328 at a pretty low price. I don't use any OHFs so I didn't get any. I'm dropping by tomorrow so if you want any, let me know. All of them are of a uniform size, transparent and they have the drip holes at the bottom already moulded.

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## RonWill

ok folks,
Box pics of the Tornado fan I mentioned in previous post. It's a rotary design (axial rotation) with metal foil blades and betters 4" AC fans by a pull-down of at least 1ºC.

 

 

Psst... it's also very quiet but ssshhhh.... don't say I said so  :Wink: 

Now let me go upload more pics and c'ya later.

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## RonWill

Back again...


ok, this is where I last left off...

 
Two views of how the Tornado fan rests on a frame. I want full coverage over the length of the 24" partition (to avoid jumperers) and is secured with cable-ties (it's cheap, easy to work with and doesn't rust!)

 
On the other end of the fan frame, is an extension to cover the 8" partition. Frames are modular in nature, to cater to whimsical changes in design.

 
Since there's more-than-sufficient water lines from the 8-way distributor, I decided to rig a platform for growing emersed mosses and let it act as a 'moss scrub' (similar to algae scrub concept).


And finally, a cover at the front over the 24" partition. I'm not too concerned if the mesh is a little large as there will be floating plants as well.

Overkill? Comments?

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## ruyle

> Overkill? Comments?


Ronnie, "overkill?" Naw, we're talking about somebody who uses UGF,
DeBruyn and Mattenfilters, all on one tank!  :Laughing:  How could this be overkill?
I like those clear plastic trays you're using, hope they have something
similar in Thailand!  :Wink:  The Tornado fan only knocks it down 1 degree?
Hardly seems worth it to me...maybe it hasn't run in enough to make
more of a difference?

Looking good, Ronnie!

Bill

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## RonWill

> The Tornado fan only knocks it down 1 degree?
> Hardly seems worth it to me...maybe it hasn't run in enough to make
> more of a difference?


Bill, let me rephrase. Whatever regular AC/DC fans can pull down, the Tornado performs better (not a pull-down of 1ºC from ambient temps).

Fans alone can only do so much and no more efficient than Henri filtrations but from my observation testing these filter mods, especially those with ventilation ports, the tank's temp can be a 2~3ºC difference (also dependent on wind circulation). Addition fan/s, used in conjunction with Henris, that achieve a further 1ºC drop, will not be feasible to others (something like diminishing returns).

FWIW, the main goal for going through this 'exercise' is to achieve a really low maintenance setup and I better rig these up while time is on my side. Aesthetic-wise, there's much room to improve on WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) but that is not an issue for me.

I'll try out clear drip trays of other brands and adapt them to my remaining 2 units of 4feet tanks. Have something in mind but it's still stuck on the drawing board  :Wink:

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