# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  downoi

## strung_0ut

is $30 plus $25shipping/handling Us dollars, too much for this plant? I don't know really how much Singapore dollars are worth to a Us dollars. I was wondering what conditions(lights,co2) are needed to grow this plant and just an overall backround of it ie. where its from, how high it grows, and so on? I figure I should probably figure out everything before I were to purchase it, so it wouldn't end up dying on me. any of your helpings would be very much appreciated. Thank you
-Dennis
"have patience with your plants and they will reward you"

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## Lighthammer

US$30 + US$25.... Thats a lot of money for 1 plant friend.

If I'm not wrong US$1 is equivalent to about S$1.75 so the price will probably come up to...

US$55 - S$96.25

Well, who is to say that its too much money for the plant? As long as you like it.  :Smile:  Not too sure about the conditions needed for good growth. I think Mr Loh could enlighten us.

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## timebomb

> Not too sure about the conditions needed for good growth. I think Mr Loh could enlighten us.


I'm not sure about the conditions for growth as I grow the Downoi the same way I grow my mosses. I don't do anything to change the water parameters so it's Ph 7 and Kh 0 as usual. As far as I know, the Downoi is quite easy to grow but it grows slowly. I have about 12 stalks now and I started with about 4.

The thing I noticed about the Downoi is that it's sensitive to new water. In other words, if you wash it under a tap, the Downoi will melt into nothing. I lost one very healthy stalk when I changed more than 90% of the water in the tank. The plant simply disappeared.

Guys, my computer crashed and I will be out of action for a while. Dennis, I will reply to your email when they return the hard disk to me. It's so terribly heartbreaking. I lost many good pictures and there's no way I can recover them now if the repairman can't salvage it from the hard disk. I feel like crying  :Sad:  I'm sending this post from my daughter's computer and it just doesn't feel the same as mine.

It's going to be *Timeout for Timebomb*

Loh K L

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## PohSan

Hi Timebomb. For important data, I usually backup it into a second harddisk in my PC. So that, if one of the drives crashed, I can retrieve my data easily. Or you can consider to invest on a CD-Recorder or a replaceable harddrive like Jaz drive or something.

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## RonWill

> It's so terribly heartbreaking. I lost many good pictures and there's no way I can recover them now if the repairman can't salvage it from the hard disk. I feel like crying  I'm sending this post from my daughter's computer and it just doesn't feel the same as mine.


Kwek Leong, all my PCs at home have a 2 harddisks (HDD); with a recovery image on the 2nd that will restore the master HDD to the day it was installed (and fully configured) OR the last date it was backed up.

You've got ALOT of things going in your system and it's OVERDUED that you think about data redundancy. It's a phobia I have about losing something accidentally and in a way, I liken it to a killifish safety net.... never put all your eggs in ONE dish! That would probably explain why I also run RAID 1+0 in my home network! :wink: 

HDD are now cheap (read affordable) and instead of waiting for yours to return, go get a pair of 40GB HDDs and get the show back on the road.

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## strung_0ut

yeah i thought it was way too much for just one plant, the guy seems really nice, but if downoi runs for $25 a stalk in Sing dollars, I wanted to make sure how much that is for my Us dollars. I just like getting rarer things, down here in California i basically see all the same old stuff in every LFS, i've been to a lot of different ones too.

Sorry about your system crashing Mr. Loh, I'm relieved because I thought you were avoiding me, but that sucks really hard especially after seeing most of your pictures, they are all so very nice.
Thanks
-Dennis
P.S. on FC's icon, thats downoi correct? its about mid sized, i've seen the smaller pics on the other post.

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## NongOil

> I was wondering what conditions(lights,co2)


High light, high base fertilize and PH around 6.5 - 6.8 will make them grow like mass  :Smile: . 


Ok, guys. The picture available here. Sorry for any inconvenient  :Opps:  .



Mr. Loh, this is not first time your harddisk fail, right. Do you plan to buy additional backup device?  :Smile:

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## timebomb

Oil,

Glad to see you have stepped out of lurking mode. I tried to go to the link you posted but couldn't see any pictures. Nid sent me a picture of her Downois in her tank a few months ago but I'm afraid the picture is no longer with me as my hard disk is in the repair shop. 

If you still have the picture in your computer, I'm sure the guys here would like to see it. 

Loh K L

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## FC

Well, this is timebomb, he can be rather lay back when come to plants and computers. Timeout, the bomb explored!

In my opinions, most plants will do well with KH of 1~2 and PH of 6.2~6.6. I used to add baking soda to keep the KH at 4~5 but I realised that the excess sodium proved to be detrimental to the plants. Good substrate is vital to rooted plants and so is the liquid fertilisers. I keep water column at:
NO3 - 5 ppm
PO4 - 0.5 ppm
K - about 10~15 ppm
GH about 5 degree (Ca vs Mg is about 5:1)
Fe at 0.1 and above
Trace dose once every week

I found light of about 0.5 watts per litre is more than sufficient for most plants (including, so called, highlight plants) if the rest of the tank condition is right, including water temperature of 25~28 degree celcius.

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## eric_kclee

> High light, high base fertilize and PH around 6.5 - 6.8 will make them grow like mass .


Oil,
What about KH and GH....is it important also?...what will be the good level for Downoi?

Thanks

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## NongOil

Eric

I'm not sure about KH and GH level. My tank KH around 4 dKH and PH around 6.5, I never keep them, they keep themself  :Smile:  

You may not worry about PH, KH or GH. Downoi can survive in a bit high or low water condition. Be careful only changing to much volume of water, as Mr. Loh said.

High light will make their leave thick and wide, short stem and dark green in color. Medium light or low light will cause their leave thin and narrow, long stem and light green. Base fertilize effect on their size, more is bigger. 

That's all my experience. Grow them by your preferred condition and look what you get  :Very Happy:

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## Lighthammer

Hello NongOil,

I will be going to Bangkok in about 2 weeks time. Is the Downoi plant available at the weekend market?

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## eric_kclee

> if you wash it under a tap, the Downoi will melt into nothing.


Mr Loh and Oil,
What is the thing in new water that melt the plant? Is it because the KH=0 (for Sinapore Tap water)? 

Thanks

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## NongOil

> Is the Downoi plant available at the weekend market?


Kelvin, Downoi still not available in weekend market, but hope, I heard that some shop growing them in display tank and if you can make good relation they may sell some stalk to you but not sure the price.




> Is it because the KH=0 (for Sinapore Tap water)?


Eric, They may, but not all the cause. Downoi can grow in the tank KH=0 but if you move them to the tank with different KH suddenly, it may not survive cause shock.

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## Lighthammer

Hmm... would it help if I just ask them to sell me a few stalks when I purchase some items from them?

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## PeterGwee

FC, I doubt the sodium added through baking soda would cause plant growth problems at that low concentration. Folks in the US have higher amounts in their tap water..why ain't they having issues then? At lower KH levels, you risk it bottoming out and a possible pH crash when injecting CO2.

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

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## FC

Peter,

Good to see you here. You are very good in planted tank these days.

I don't know about the US's water, I beleive many areas have high water hardness which mainly make up of Ca & Mg, I think.

Other than KH buffer, PH fluctuation depends, more crucially, on CO2 injection and diffusing method. I have KH of 1~2 (coming from the coral chips) but I managed to maintain the PH at min. 6.2(day) ~ max. 6.6(night). It's not a problem as long as the changes are gradual. To help things further, I turn of the fan at night (when the CO2 is off).

I do not know about you and others, ever since I stopped dosing baking soda and use coral chips, every plants benifitted. I change water less frequent but I add Mg to balance it.

Do you using some form of Ca dose? Do you use coral chips?

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## PeterGwee

FC, I am just a plain plant grower...still lacking in aquascaping skills.  :Very Happy: 

In what way have your plants benefitted from the change of baking soda to coral chips? From what I know, Ca and Mg uptake tend to be slower and might cause issues if you grow plants at break-necking speed (Very high light and high CO2 with good nutrients). <--Opinion from Tom Barr actually.

Personally, I do not dose any Ca stuff or add coral chips to my tank since I know they are not responsible for the possible cause of some of my plant issues and that our tap is adequate as long as I do good amount of water change. Just a tip...Be critical about the CO2 and make sure you have good amount throughout the entire photoperiod day in day out and it would be very rewarding...just make sure you add enough nutrients though.

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

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## NongOil

> Hmm... would it help if I just ask them to sell me a few stalks when I purchase some items from them?


Kevin, it may or may not, but I think they may sell Downoi to you if they recognized you are foreigner cause they don't want to sell them for local, you know the reason :wink:

Oil.

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## TS168

HI Anyone can answer this for me. thanks

1. Has anyone plant downoi without fan and the temperature is around 27-30degree. As i read through the forum it state the temperature 25-28degree.

I am planning to get one and try out in my tank. By the way i am planning to do it in a 1FT cube tank.
Any advise/comment. Thanks

Anyone has a small one to sell me? Please let me know.
Just thinking of trying out this plant.

Thanks
Best Regards

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## timebomb

Teck Song,

I'm not sure if the Downoi is a cold water plant but my gut feeling is that it won't mind high temperatures. The thing I'm sure about is that you must never put it into new water. For some strange reason, the Downoi is very sensitive to new water. It will melt if you change too much water at one go. The other thing I learnt about the Downoi is that you mustn't use ADA soil. It doesn't like acidic conditions. 

Loh K L

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## PohSan

Some fishes seem to enjoy the leave of the Downoi also. Mine is left with stem only.  :Crying:  

Regards,
Ong Poh San

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## TanVincent

> The other thing I learnt about the Downoi is that you mustn't use ADA soil. It doesn't like acidic conditions. 
> 
> Loh K L


Hi Loh K L,

I would like to challenge that statement. My Downoi is growing very well in ADA soil. They grow to twice its height in 3 weeks. I am using ADA powersand mixed with Bacter 100 and ADA aquasoil amazonia. Lights is at 72W at 20G. I did not check the water parameters as the plants are growing very well. Dosing is done once a week with a few drops of seachem flourish.

Cheers
Vincent

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## PeterGwee

Be it ADA aquasoil, flourite, JBL aquabasis or whatever substrate you use, it does not run from the fact that plants need light, CO2 and nutrients (N,P,K, traces and GH) to grow well. Miss one of those factors and plants slow down or die.

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

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## Slaigar

Does this plant benefit from hard water? If so, this may be the plant for me  :Very Happy:  .

I am curious, why is Downoi so sensitive to new water? From a first look, I would never suspect Downoi to melt. It is probably because the leaves remind me of the tough leaves of the Crinum species. My only thought it that it may be similar to Cryptocorynes, melting their leaves when drastic changes occur. Has anything similar happened with a change in lighting, water movement or moving the plant around? Someone should go on a field trip to its natural habitat and post some information!

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## discusdave

I just bought a single stem of Downoi a few days ago and planted it in my Erect Moss tank. The substrate is Eco-Complete. pH is about 6.7, and gh and kh are at about 7, as the Eco-Complete buffers. I know it has been said here that the Eco-Complete substrate is inert, and the buffers are in the liquid it comes in, but this tank has had the equivalent of several complete water changes over the several months it has been set up, and I have not had to add any gh or kh builders, and my tap water has a gh and kh of less than one, so I have to disagree with the statement that the buffers are in the water the Eco-Complete is packed in. 

The Downoi is growing. Hopefully, I can propagate it.

I wonder if growing Downoi in a kh of 0 makes it more sensitive to the larger water changes?

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## timebomb

> I would like to challenge that statement. My Downoi is growing very well in ADA soil.


Vincent,

As far as I know, the ADA soil comes in 2 colours. One is brown and the other is grey or something. Which one are you using? I had a discussion about this plant with some guys I met in Eco-culture and they all said that the Downoi will melt if it's grown in the brown ADA soil but not in the grey one. I can testify that one of my Downoi's melted when I tried to grow it in brown ADA soil.

Loh K L

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## timebomb

> I just bought a single stem of Downoi a few days ago and planted it in my Erect Moss tank.


The Downoi has reached the USA? Did it cost a bomb, Dave? 

Loh K L

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## TanVincent

> Vincent,
> 
> As far as I know, the ADA soil comes in 2 colours. One is brown and the other is grey or something. Which one are you using?


Hi Loh K L,

I am using the black ADA soil.

Is there a difference in composition between the 3 colours? I once asked Mr Chan from NA regarding their differences and he just old me that only the colour is different and perhaps the size of the gravel.

Would someone please enlighten?

CHeers
Vincent

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## timebomb

> I am using the black ADA soil.


That explains it. When I was in Eco, a few of them confirmed that if brown ADA soil is used, the Downoi will melt but one of the guys mentioned he was using a different coloured ADA soil and he didn't have any problems. 

I don't know what's different about the 3 colours, Vincent but apparently, there's a difference. 

Loh K L

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## FC

Some comments on Aqua Soil:
http://suiso.com/v2/modules.php?name...=viewtopic&t=5

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## discusdave

(snip)
The Downoi has reached the USA? Did it cost a bomb, Dave?
(snip)

Kwek Leong,
I got this stem from a guy in Hawaii who got it from someone in Singapore who posts here at Killies.com. I decided to try it because of the lesser problems with customs and shipping time since it was sent in the US postal system.

Let me just say that this was the single most expensive aquarium plant I have ever purchased, hehehe! I got into a bidding war with someone over it and the price went to $51 US and $17 US Express Mail shipping.

I had been selling some plants I pulled from my tanks, and had a decent PayPal balance, so it was found money anyways. I usually don't bother with selling extra plants just because I don't have a lot of time to do it.

Time will tell if I wasted my money or not. I'm sure I can recoup my expenses if I can grow and sell some.

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## PeterGwee

Mr Loh, I can tell you can grow any plants in aquasoil as long as you keep up on the nutrients which it seems some do and some don't. My personal experience with aquasoil way back sometime ago was that it drops both KH and GH pretty low initially(in my case less than 1dH for both). Plants need the Ca and Mg as nutrients to grow...with both nutrient concentration dropping that low can limit the plant real bad. Without doing something about it, the plant would simply slow down or die which is the case what the folks at eco-culture are experiencing. Try to get the GH up to 3 or above and see if the downoi can survive in the malaya or africana one whichever you are referring to.

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

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## TanVincent

> Some comments on Aqua Soil:
> http://suiso.com/v2/modules.php?name...=viewtopic&t=5


HI,

I think i sort of agree with the findings from that site. 

I did a small experiment, I placed 2 crypts from the same pot in 2 types of gravel. One in black ADA and the other brown. The brown ones melted within days while the balck ones is still growing strong. There might be other factors involved like lights and plants around the crypts but i think the soil does plays a big part in it.

CHeers
Vincent

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## slcw

i just bought a pot of it. 

http://www.chuisui.com/viewthread.php?tid=643
i am using ADA soil also Amazon too.

Just setup on Sat.

hope it is ok.

20 gallon (2x1.5x1)
Aquaz T5H0 2 x 24 watts 6500K
Running on cooling fan 26-27 temp
Eheim 2215. 
Co2 
ADA power sand, etc etc

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## Thainum

I stay in Thailand.I have a lot of Downoi .
Who interest can contract me -->[email protected]

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## jerryC

Thanks Thainum.

However, to spread the news further, for those living in Malaysia, you should be able to get Downoi from these shop. 

Subang area = Natural Aquatic
Klang = Han Yang

These Downoi are from Tropica. Per pot should have about 15 - 25 stalks (Big and Small).

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## PohSan

Hi Jerry,

BTW How big is the pot? And you sure it was from Tropica?

Regards,
Ong Poh San

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## jerryC

> Hi Jerry,
> 
> BTW How big is the pot? And you sure it was from Tropica?
> 
> Regards,
> Ong Poh San


Poh San.

Don't mind me asking... how do you know that it is a Tropica plants does the leaf has Tropica logo? I'm not guessing here but the pot I bought has Tropica logo embossed and a Tag with Tropica logo printed on it. It is a regular size pot! Comparing to the cut stalks a friend of mine bought from S'pore for SGD20 (RM50 ++) per stalk, Tropica Downoi pot is by far cry cheaper. If a pot of Tropica Downoi has 10 stalks for RM75 then it is only RM7.50 per stalk. Whether it is Tropica or not RM7.50 for Downoi is cheap (at least for me).

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## stormhawk

Jerry, your post was repeated 8 times in a row. I've deleted the extra posts.

But you got that right, the same plant at a lower price.. doesn't really matter if its from Tropica or not.  :Laughing:

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## jerryC

Jian Yang,

I was having problem posting yesterday, it just reply with DNS error. So I repeated a few time or rather 8 times.  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:  

Poh San,

I didn't mean to be rude or sarcastic but you asked a silly question  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:

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## timebomb

> Poh San,
> 
> I didn't mean to be rude or sarcastic but you asked a silly question


I don't think Poh San asked a silly question, Jerry. In fact, I was just as curious myself about whether your Downoi is genuinely Tropica. This is because the Downoi still sells for high prices over here so it's natural for us to suspect that anything cheaper couldn't possibly be from Tropica. 

In any case, I found out recently that Karin Leow of Far East Aquatics sells the Downoi from Tropica for something like Sing $35 a pot. I have never seen the pots myself but I've heard each pot contains up to 10 stalks. It's a good deal, if you ask me.

Loh K L

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## Marco Aukes

> In any case, I found out recently that Karin Leow of Far East Aquatics sells the Downoi from Tropica for something like Sing $35 a pot. I have never seen the pots myself but I've heard each pot contains up to 10 stalks. It's a good deal, if you ask me.
> 
> Loh K L


  :Shocked:  That is a great deal!!! I can't wait untill Tropice will start selling these in europe. Untill then I will have to pay that price per stem because off all the import duties etc.....  :Crying:

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## ruyle

Hi folks,
Since this is a "Downoi thread" I thought I'd piggyback on it and show
the downoi KL sent me. These pics are from a friend I gave some stalks
to, some time ago. He says he went through a slump with this plant, but
he believes he has the problem solved:



I hope to get a couple starts a little later from him, so KL, they didn't go to waste after all  :Laughing:  

Bill

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## jerryC

> I don't think Poh San asked a silly question, Jerry. In fact, I was just as curious myself about whether your Downoi is genuinely Tropica. This is because the Downoi still sells for high prices over here so it's natural for us to suspect that anything cheaper couldn't possibly be from Tropica. 
> 
> In any case, I found out recently that Karin Leow of Far East Aquatics sells the Downoi from Tropica for something like Sing $35 a pot. I have never seen the pots myself but I've heard each pot contains up to 10 stalks. It's a good deal, if you ask me.
> 
> Loh K L



I withdraw my statement of silly question, my bad. In most cases I found out that Tropica's plants are rather Economical in volume that works out to be cheaper. Not only Downoi but other plants as well (those rare ones as well).

Tropica will list the availability of Downoi in their new catalog.

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## Green Baron

Jerry,
$35 for 10 stalks quite reasonable. How long is each stalk ? Do you have a photo of it ?

I was at Teo's farm last week and I saw them growing lots of Downoi emersed. Those Downoi are really BIG, the diameter is ~ 6cm (1.5")  :Shocked:  I didn't ask the price as I was looking for other plants.

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## Stephan K.

Hi,

Downoi is sold in Europe (Austria) by Tropica at about EURO 7,-. 
Ordering number is 053H. The plant is not in their list, but it is possible to order it.

Stephan

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## timebomb

> I hope to get a couple starts a little later from him, so KL, they didn't go to waste after all


Well, I'm glad your friend managed to get the Downoi's going, Bill. But to tell the truth, I think those in the pictures are rather skinny  :Laughing: 

As far as I've seen, no one grows the Downoi better than Karin Leow. She has a few stalks in her display tank and they look really healthy. The leaves are thick and the whole plant is short and sticks close to the substrate. The colour of the plant is very beautiful too. Hers looks like those grown in emersed conditions down in Teo's farm. I'll see if I can get pictures one of these days.

Loh K L

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## Marco Aukes

> Hi,
> 
> Downoi is sold in Europe (Austria) by Tropica at about EURO 7,-. 
> Ordering number is 053H. The plant is not in their list, but it is possible to order it.
> 
> Stephan


Thanks Stephan!!!

That ordering number helped to find that it coukd be ordered with a dutch Tropica dealer to. A bit more expensive (9,75), but I think the plant is worth it.

Thanks again!

P.S.: Do you have the full orderingnumberlist from tropica?

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## jerryC

> As far as I've seen, no one grows the Downoi better than Karin Leow. She has a few stalks in her display tank and they look really healthy. The leaves are thick and the whole plant is short and sticks close to the substrate. The colour of the plant is very beautiful too. Hers looks like those grown in emersed conditions down in Teo's farm. I'll see if I can get pictures one of these days.
> Loh K L


Loh,

Does downoi require lot of fert?

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## Marco Aukes

> Loh,
> 
> Does downoi require lot of fert?


Yes, and mostly on their roots.

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## jerryC

> Originally Posted by jerryC
> 
> Loh,
> 
> Does downoi require lot of fert?
> 
> 
> Yes, and mostly on their roots.



Will solid iron tab help by placing 1" away from the plants? or it is too rich?

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## Luciano

Sorry,
My English is very bad  :Opps:   :Opps:  

My Pogostemun Helferi (downoi) after 5 monts....

gH= 8....15, kh= 6....13, pH 6.8<<>>7.2, Po4= 0,4 ppm, No3= 8.....15ppm, Fe3= 0,2..0,4.

tables= JBL.... 

Link for vision: http://www.acquariforum.com/forum/sh...hlight=helferi

Best regard.

Luciano

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## timebomb

Welcome to the forum, Luciano,

Don't worry about your English. We understand you well enough. I don't know what's being said on your forum though. Is the language Spanish or what? 

I went to Teo's farm today and took some pictures of his Downoi's. Teo started off with just one stalk but now he has lots of them. He used to grow them in one of his display tanks but now he grows them in emersed conditions. Here are the pics:





But as I've said earlier, no one grows them better than Karin Leow. Karin's Downoi's are from Tropica which as far as I know, tissue cultures the plant in their laboratory. Here are the pics taken of Karin's display tank at Far East Aquatics.





Karin uses Dennerle soil and Dennerle deponit mix as the base fertiliser. I kind of suspect that's the reason her Downoi's are so lovely.

Loh K L

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## Luciano

Loh K L 
Thanks for the welcome to the forum. 
Use translation an Internet system Italian-English. 

I have begun with little steles taken to the ZOO-MARK of Bologna from Oliwer Knott in May 2005 to stend the Tropica. 

Today is still much difficult one to find it in sale on the Italian market. 

The substrate of the bathtub where it grows is of earth allofona of the ELOS, fertilized with spheres JBL. The Downoi, is always grown very well and in perfect shape... also to 30 centigrade degrees. 

The photos inserted from you are truly beautiful, thanks!!! 

Luciano

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## Marco Aukes

> Today is still much difficult one to find it in sale on the Italian market.


Just go to the Tropica site, find the Italian Tropica dealer(s) en ask them to order for you. That worked fine for me here, thansk to Stephans ordering code.

P.S. Loh: you're hurting me with those pics!!!  :Shocked:

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## Robert

Hi Mr. Loh,
these pictures are amazing. I guess the reason for these short internodia are intensive light. I tried to keep them under different conditions and light seems to be the main factor. They don't need much light but the more light they get, the shorter the internodia are. BTW, my growth problems are gone. At first my downoi grew pretty slowly out of these 3 bare stalks which I got from you. But now I keep about 20 of them and also send the first ones to friends in Brazil and Finland. 

regards
Robert

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## timebomb

Glad you like the pictures, fellas. It's a pleasure to show them to you.

Robert, 

It can't be due to the lighting. I didn't take the photographs but Bioplast, a local fish shop uses very high lighting in their display tanks and their Downoi's are leggy and tall. You wouldn't believe how tall they grow. They looked like stem plants, more than a foot in height.

I'll try and drop by over at Bioplast one of these days. It's been a long time since I last went there. But they're just walking distance from my house. Just across the main street, in fact.

Loh K L

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## FC

KL,

I was at Biotope few days ago, the 2 large front display tanks (6 footer?) with MH lightings and chiller do not have Downoi anymore.

(Biotope is a nice, planted tank dedicated shop but the shop just sells too little products. They always promise me to bring more but never did. Please encourag him a little when you meet him.)

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## timebomb

Shucks, I should have taken the pictures when they had the tall Downoi's.
Only at Bioplast, do they grow that way.

I'll see what I can do, Freddy. But Bioplast has their own business strategies, which I must say, have proven to be quite successful in these trying times. They don't sell much equipment but they market their own brand- Bioplast, the name they are commonly known by. It's a good strategy to market a brand that nobody else sells. At least, you don't have to compete with pricing. If you're the only one who sells a particular brand of products, no customer can complain that someone else is selling it cheaper.

As for aquatic plants, Bioplast has a good strategy too. Mostly, they grow their own. They stick to exotic plants which sell for high prices. I was quite shocked when I brought some Thai friends there about a year ago and they bought some stem plants at Sing $10 a stalk!! I was flabbergasted by the high prices so I demanded that they gave me a stalk for free  :Laughing:  And you know what, they did  :Laughing: 

Loh K L

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## timebomb

I read through the posts again and I noticed Freddy said "Biotope". Are we talking about the same fish shop, Freddy? It's the one opposite my block, just across the street. That's Bioplast. Biotope is somewhere in Bukit Merah and it so happens I was there just 2 nights ago. They have many varieties of mosses but no Downoi's.

Loh K L

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## jerryC

Loh,

What's do you feed your downoi? I tried solid iron from both Azoo and ADA but doesn't seems to work? Aside from growing in volume they grow in quantity. Like rabbits!

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## FC

> I read through the posts again and I noticed Freddy said "Biotope". Are we talking about the same fish shop, Freddy?


  :Opps:  Typo error! I was refering to Bioplast, the shop near you.

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## timebomb

> Loh,
> 
> What's do you feed your downoi? I tried solid iron from both Azoo and ADA but doesn't seems to work? Aside from growing in volume they grow in quantity. Like rabbits!


Jerry, I would imagine you would be happy to have such a problem  :Laughing: 

I don't feed the Downoi's anything special. What I have under the substrate in my main tank is JBL base fertiliser. It seems to work fine for the Downoi's which were propagating well for a while. Besides being prone to melting, it seems like the Downoi's are also prone to withering. All my Downoi's began to wither and shrink when I transferred them into another tank with ADA soil as a substrate. It could be due to the change in substrate but over the last couple of months, many hobbyists tell me that their Downoi's began to wither in the tank although nothing was changed. In Teos' farm, all his Downoi's were withering too when he was growing them submersed. That was the main reason he switched to growing them emersed.

It could be, like some mosses, the Downoi isn't a genuine aquatic plant. It may be able to grow underwater for a while but over long periods, they could wither and die. I'm just guessing, of course.

Loh K L

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## confusekid

Hi,
My downoi have been growing fine, ever since I got them(1 year ago?). No sign of withering. Most likely the withering is due to a change in water conditions. 

Jack

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## primavera

I would love to acquire some downoi when I go back to Malaysia this year end. JerryC mentioned that its available in Subang, but the price for me is still a bit too steep. Besides, I dont think I need that many stems, just one or two to try out. I'm willing to trade with anyone for stem plants that I have. Maybe of interest are Potamogeton stellata (broad leaf), Eusteralis sp. (see http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/27803703) and Myriophyllum matagroense. The Eusteralis sp. I bought it unidentified in Sydney, and to date the closest match I've seen is Oliver Knott's page. 

Thanks everyone and pm me if anyone is interested for an exchange.

Min

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## itssg

Anyone grow the downoi without the CO2? I am using the land plant fertilizer which is in green color and stated as N15 P15 K15. And mixed with some chicken organic fert. It growing nice n big. But gonna insert the fertilizer deep inside the gravel. Once it explored in the water. You gonna face a very serious algae problem.

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## imported_shaman

I have grow them in low fert, no CO2 injection tank, light 3 wpg. It can grow, thin and tall. No problem

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## Luciano

Hi, 
If you would like to see the Discus and Pogostemun Helferi  :Laughing:   :Laughing:  , in the same tank go to

http://www.acquariforum.com/forum/sh...0928#post60928

Regards
Luciano[/img]

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## timebomb

That's a magnificent tank, Luciano. Is it yours? Whoever owns that tank, he or she is one accomplished aquatic gardener.

Loh K L

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## Luciano

> That's a magnificent tank, Luciano. Is it yours? Whoever owns that tank, he or she is one accomplished aquatic gardener.
> 
> Loh K L


Hi

Yes  :Opps:   :Opps: , it is the tank I have in my house!!!

Thanks for your appreciation!!!!

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## timebomb

> Yes  , it is the tank I have in my house!!!


I take my hat off to you, Luciano. Your tank is truly beautiful. Anyone who can grow aquatic plants like the way you do deserves all the plants he can get. Let me know how I can help you to make the tank look even better. Would you like to have some Narrow Leaf Java Ferns? Or a stalk of Hygrophilia balsamica? What about the various mosses? Just let me have your mailing address and I'll send the plants to you.

Loh K L

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## Luciano

> Originally Posted by Luciano
> 
> Yes  , it is the tank I have in my house!!!
> 
> 
> I take my hat off to you, Luciano. Your tank is truly beautiful. Anyone who can grow aquatic plants like the way you do deserves all the plants he can get. Let me know how I can help you to make the tank look even better. Would you like to have some Narrow Leaf Java Ferns? Or a stalk of Hygrophilia balsamica? What about the various mosses? Just let me have your mailing address and I'll send the plants to you.
> 
> Loh K L


Hi 
Loh K L
Thank your appreciation :Laughing:   :Laughing:   :Laughing:   :Laughing:  

I'm still thinking about it . Thank you very much for that. 

In the meanwhile if you want to see another tank (small!!! 20x20x18H cm.) with P. Helferi have a look on the... http://www.acquariforum.com/forum/sh...9&page=4&pp=20.. 
this tank is done with Walstad Diana tecnique.... it is very very particular

Do you know a place where to buy a Ricchardia spp (mini_ pelia) in Singapore?

Ciao!!!
Luciano

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## CO2

Hi Luciano,

I just got some Mini Pellia (Riccardi sp.) last week from a guy named Adrian in Singapore. It arrived in great shape and looks just like the pictures on this site. I have bought many mosses from him over the last couple weeks, and I will be doing more business with him in the future. He sells on AquaBid.com. His name on there is "adriansg". He has some Mini Pellia listed there right now:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...nts&1137373835

You can also email him if there's something that you want that isn't listed.

One thing I never realized from the pictures on Killies.com, is that the Mini Pellia is very small! Especially compared to Monoselenium, it should be called Micro Pellia  :Very Happy:

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## budak

Tropica has an article on the plant now: here

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## timebomb

> Do you know a place where to buy a Ricchardia spp (mini_ pelia) in Singapore?


I'm afraid I can't help you with the Mini-Pellia, Luciano. As far as I know, only one local fish shop sells this plant - Bioplast fish shop. I have a bit of the Mini-Pellia in my tanks but the amount is so small I can't send any to you. Your best chance would be to get it from aquabid like Craig did. Sellers ask for sky-high prices when the plant in new in the hobby so I think it's wiser to wait a while for prices to come down. 

Budak, thanks for the link. I'm glad Tropica paid tribute to Nonn Panitvong and his friend, Arthit Prasartkul by highlighting the fact that these 2 were the ones who introduced the plant to the hobby.

Loh K L

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## Luciano

> Tropica has an article on the plant now: here


Hi budak....

I read this article... it's very good!!!

I wrote a simple article too; it has been published in an italian magazine where I reported my experience with P. Helferi...
The link I gave you yesterday shows you a tank I have in my house  :Laughing:   :Laughing:   :Laughing:  ... I did it four weeks ago.... 

Thank you for the information on where to find MiniPelia....  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:

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## Luciano

Hi

In the meanwhile if you want to see another my tank http://www.acquariofacile.it/forum/t...64&whichpage=2 , 

This tank is 30gal..... and it contains also a particular moss spp. , picked in Italy.

ciao

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