# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Need help on Angelfish clamped fins pls

## danfoo

Hi guys i just bought 2 more angelfish and introduced them into the tank. One of the new entrants is not doing much other than drifting around with its fins clamped shut. I read at some other forum that it may be a disease. I am observing it for now. But is there any advice on what other things i could do to help it?

For information its an altum which i bought today. Its fins only opens when it is being chased around by one of the other angelfish. The rear fins were a bit clamped when i bought it. Could the fins be clamped due to the time it spent in the small plastic bag?

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## Blue Whale

The new fish are probably very stressed. And might be overfed even before you buy it. Just keep your tank and filter clean, observe for a while more. Not due to plastic bag. And don't put your face too near the tank, observe from a distance. At times you can wingle your fingers and call for the angel fish to come to you. Angel babies do school but adult may fight. You can goto Vista Point LFS behind the market there to watch this behavior. He have about three schools of babies there. Wingling your fingers will allow them to follow your hand. Running a cloth to wipe the glass will also cause stress. Angels are timid, remember that. Never never tap the glass, scare the hell out of them.

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## danfoo

Thanks a lot for the advice Bluewhale.

i didn't know theres a LFS at the vista point. Where do you live in Woodlands? Im at 359 near the Civic center. Anyways heres the pictures of the angelfish. the altum is just hanging around the heater and not moving at all. But is it an altum? Was told by the shop keeper its an altum but im not sure how to differentiate between the different species. This is my first try at keeping angelfish.


In this top image its fins are a bit more open, but its mostly clamped up like the one in the bottom image

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## stormhawk

These are probably not altum, and some others on this forum will tell you they are fake altums and nothing more than just a form of scalare. In any case, don't worry about that. Leave taxonomy to the experts and just enjoy the fish.  :Smile: 

Like Whale says, they are probably stressed. Angelfishes when first introduced, tend to shy and hide away. Give them awhile to get used to their new surroundings. Do look for other symptoms, if you feel they are sick. Only then will you be able to make a better guess as to what might be afflicting your angelfish.

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## danfoo

ya i was hoping they will get well and adapt soon. It doesn't really matter if its altum or not i think. I saw this little guy in the same plastic bag in the shop for 1 week and no one seems to be picking it up. So was hoping i can bring it in and give it better environment haha. Its cost more (28 bucks) than the other fish in my tank but if it gets well i think its worth it. I have raised the temperature to 80F. Heard it helps to increase thier immune system.

But roughly how long it takes for angelfish to acclimatise to their new environment? because the other 2 angelfish are active and eating the flakes already. Its been 2 days since the fish were introduced into the tanks. I will keep watch to see how its faring. Will update here with their progress  :Smile:

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## stormhawk

Some will take a few hours, some will take a few days. I believe the one you purchased, must have been very very stressed being left in that same bag for a week with no water change at the LFS. I usually don't buy these fish, because in those bags, the water must be pretty foul..

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## Blue Whale

danfoo,You are right I am in woodlands.576

Now I can ascertain the reason why. Most of fin clams symptoms have to do with water. Now your tank did not have sufficient time to cycle, hence the foggy effect is there. You might need to temporary segregate them out. If you do not have an extra tank, pm me your hp no. I could loan one to you first. The tank will need to cycle for 1 to 2 weeks to clear, some need 3 weeks. During this stage, the temporary tank can do with just a water pump, again, if you don't have it I do have spare one to loan you.

If that is troublesome for you, let me know. You can hotel your fish at my end too if you like to for the time being.

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## danfoo

Hi guys, the tanks i think has had 1 week to cycle so far.

I set up the tank on 27th jan with the water and the substrate at the bottom. The water was murky even after i rinsed the substrate and changed one full tank. I also added AA bacteria culture (in powder form) which my brother passed to me. He has a koi tank and he started that with the bacteria culture.

2 angelfish were added into the tank on 29th. One of them seems to be doing fine. But the other just hides in the java fern and didn't eat the flakes i fed them.

on 1st jan yesterday i added in the 'altum', one more angelfish and a very small corydoras. The angelfish added on this day is eating and swimming and seems to be adapting.

Do i need to take out the fishes? actually i only know in theory need to let the nitrification cycle finish but i have no idea how to see if its completed. My brother told me with the bacteria powder i can reduce the time need to a few days only. Hence i added the fish in ><

I have a 1 ft tank at home also but i'm not sure if i should touch the fish. Please advice what i should do.

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## danfoo

Hi guys i want to ask if there si any recommendation for kits to test the ammonia and nitrites level in the water. The kit i have is old and it only tests the levels of ammonia and ammonium. And that is dependent on the PH of the water as well. Should i get a nitrate and/or nitrites testkit?

I have the driftwood which i think has helped to lower the PH. I also increased the aeration hoping it will increase the cycle speed. But i have no idea how to see if the cycle is being completed or is in process. Please advice.. I dun want the fish to be sick ><

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## Blue Whale

Angel fish are gentle fiesty little ones. I would use hand to scoop the side of them up gently to put into the 1ft tank. Make sure the water pump is working. Water dechlorinated, small pinch of salt + a dash of white spot special will do nicely. *Make sure you do this tonight!* 

The main tank just let it cycle, clearing the filter every 3-4 days or so. During cycling, do be patient. I got document down the state of the tank during cycling.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=63192

After separation, your fish should do fine so long you don't "shock" it. Occassionally just play with them by wingling your fingers, they will play with you one.

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## danfoo

ok will do. Thanks for the advice, will do what i can to make it better for my babies  :Razz: 

I saw a white dot on the 'altum'... its like a small cotton bud on the body of the fish.. I am planning to raise the temperature and using the ich medication. Does anyone have any recommendation for the ich medication? What kind of temperature am i looking at? 

So far i have raised the temperature to 83F and the fish has become more active. But is it better to raise the temp higher? and what is the max i can go? I saw in 2 different sites with different temperature range for the angelfish. One said 78-82 one said 82-86.. >< which one is the good ones ?

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## Blue Whale

Standard is 27C or 80F. You do not have to raise to 83F as the weather will be getting real hot soon.

A Golden Veiltail Angel at the bottom. (Windows Media)
And a Golden Silver Angel just below it.
http://aquariumfish.net/catalog_page...s_assorted.htm

Get Ocean Free, White Spot Special. About $1 but it is limited to certain place only...Qian hu is controlling the price. (Selling Price $0.90 to $1.20)
Aqua Star Trading yes
Vista Point no
Bukit Batok market LFS yes
Chong Pang LFS yes
C328 yes
Jurong East LFS yes <- Cheapest
Teck Whye LFS no

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## danfoo

blue whale do u mind if i bring one of the fish to you to take a look? can u help me take a look at what is troubling it? It was fine a few days ago. Then it started to stop eating and now... its just like stuck to the inlet of the filter system T.T.. I dun see anything wrong with its body...

i dunno what to do with it.. i dunn how to help it..

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## danfoo

i think its stomach is a bit bloated and its not been eating. Sometimes ti will flip on its side and just float with the current sometimes it will be like normal and swim... I dunno what is happening to it. I read some forums and they say he might be constipated? and waht is dropsy?

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## stormhawk

If the small "cotton bud" is a fluffy growth, then you have some sort of fungus, which also means that there has been a bacterial infection as well. Some proprietary fish medications that aid against combating Saprolegnia and Achlya should help, but getting the correct dosage is of utmost importance.

If the "cotton bud" thing is not fluffy, but starts to cover the entire body with tiny white spots, then you have ich, which can be dealt with easily using a combination of ich medication, and high temperature above 30 deg C for roughly more than a week. The key is to kill the cysts resting in the substrate, so some gravel vacuuming of the upper layer might be useful in helping out.

Dropsy is when the fish's kidneys are infected with bacteria and they start producing some liquids, that cause the scales to pop out. It is possible that your fish might have some swim bladder issues, but that is also due to possible internal infections. It could even be viral. 

In the case of your fish, if it is already showing signs of no appetite, listlessness and inability to control its movements, then it might already be too late to save it. I would remove it and keep it in a separate tank, just in case, and attempt some treatments.

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## danfoo

thanks for the clarifications stormhawk. That helped a lot, at least i know what i should do to save the other fish. The one that had bloated stomach had no scales which poped out. I was searching all over the net for a disease to fit its descriptions. I thought it was bloated. But i think it should be internal infections. Because it deteorated very fast. It is now.. gone.... The first casualty to my noobness.. Should have read more...

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## Blue Whale

danfoo, if you get another one, it would really mean the tank water got problem. Normally, bloating is caused by unclean water or the fish eat too much, like gastric. In the case of bloating, most cases are actually fatal. Actually I wanted to pm you one, but your pm was off.

*Reference materials*:
http://www.angelsplus.com/faqhealth.htm
http://www.angelsplus.com/faqhealth2.htm (Click next on 1st link comes here)
http://www.angelsplus.com/faqhealth.htm (Click next on 2nd link comes here)
Click next again if you feel compell to read more.

You can read more on the internet or youtube (This site you need to exercise your wisdom to read ratings and comments too)

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## danfoo

Thanks man for all the help  :Smile:  This is a painful experience.. but i can do more for the remaining fishes. Just in case its bacterial infection i got some biotonic from Biotope and will do a 30% water change before administering the medication. Filter will be cleaned and i hope that will help to eliminate the bad bacteria. Fingers Crossed ><

I have no idea how to turn on the PM function.  :Razz:

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## Blue Whale

User CP (Control Panel) >> Edit Options >> Messaging & Notification >> Private Messaging >> Check Enable Private Messaging

You can also check Show New Private Message Notification Pop-up
If someone PM (private messaging), you will get a pop up (can be irritating but hey you can turn off anytime), to "tell" you have how many pm. Usually the right hand top would have tell you how many pm(s) you have.

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## danfoo

i dun seem to have the private messaging options, maybe i need to have more posts before i can get that privilege. Thanks for the site. I hope the bio medicine i got from biotope will work. It seems highly likely that it is a internal virus infection. One more of the fish is starting a hunger strike and is exactly doing what the dead ones did... Its just clamping its fins and lying near the heater. I just have no idea where do those virus or bad bacteria comes from.. 

I am beginning to suspect the food and the substrate. Might have to try starving them for a day or 2 to see if they get better. The water perimeters are all fine after a 30% water change. Filter is rinsed and cleaned using tank water to preserve good bacteria. I am just short of adding a ton of salt into the tank  :Sad:  

Hope the remaining 2 angelfish will pull through with the help of the medication... 

Thanks guys, for all the advice and help  :Smile:

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## stormhawk

As mentioned, it is possible that the prolonged stay at the LFS in a small bag with no water change or feeding pretty much contributed to the ill health of the fish. Do not rely on salt to cure every disease though. It is not necessary for some fishes, and can even be unhelpful, especially for scaleless fishes. Even armored fishes like Corydoras, do not like salt to be added to their tank. 

Keeping the tank clean, maintaining the filter and doing regular water changes are key to keeping the tank inhabitants healthy. Checking the freshness of the food you are feeding, is also crucial.

At times it is best to just have a bare-bottom tank, with plants tied on driftwood just for aesthetic purposes. This allows you to keep the fish, and yet prevents issues related to the gravel bed.

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