# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Aquatic Moss Club >  The Erect Moss and Downoi

## timebomb

Hi, folks,

I got a private message today from one of the members here requesting that I sell him some of my Erect Moss. It's not important who he is but he isn't the first person to ask me for the Moss. Many hobbyists have written to me for this plant. Many have also asked me to sell them the Downoi.

Frankly, I'm in a bit of a quandary. I don't believe in being selfish and I want to share my plants with anyone who is interested in growing them. In the last 2 years or so, I've sent the Christmas Moss for free to about 250 people living all over the world; some were hobbyists from Singapore. I have never collected a single cent for my plants and I paid for all the postage costs. 

In the old days, everyone wanted the Christmas Moss when I was the only one around with plenty of them in my tanks. Now, it's the Erect Moss. I've been lucky with mosses but this time, I have to do things a bit differently from before.

The fish shop that sold me the Erect Moss was kind to me and they charged me a low price for a few strands. I started off with about 5 strands but now I have plenty. If I give the Moss away for free or sell them at a very low price, I would be sabotaging the fish shop. I don't want to do that. 

I know, as fellow hobbyists, we should look after each other. But I have very good relationships with many fish shop owners too. I get along well with fish shop owners because they know I look after their interests as well. It can be an intricate dance, looking after the interests of fellow hobbyists as well as fish shop owners. I'm trying my best to make everyone happy.

I will be selling the Erect Moss and Downoi through Karin Leow on the day of the gathering. I feel this is the best "win-win" situation for all. I will pack the moss in small plastic bags. Each bag will have only a few strands of Erect Moss. I haven't decide on the price yet but rest assured it will be affordable. If I sell the Moss in big bags, they will cost a lot more. Although you will be getting only a few strands, that's all you really need to start with. Like I said, I started with only 5 strands. If you can grow them, that's all you need. If you can't grow them, it would be futile even if I give you a whole tub of it.

Karin would benefit from the sales of the moss. I would benefit a bit from it too. The fish shop that sold me the moss may feel a bit sore about it but that can't be helped. Hobbyists who have been dying to get some Erect Moss would eventually get a chance to grow them. It would be a "win-win" situation for everyone, I hope.

On the day of the gathering, get there early. I will try to give priority to the hobbyists in this forum. I haven't work out how I can do that but I will try.

Loh K L

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## woodduck

On the day of the gathering, get there early. I will try to give priority to the hobbyists in this forum. I haven't work out how I can do that but I will try. 

Hi Loh,

Must we camp overnight to get this moss? :wink: 

Btw, I was lucky to get this moss from Pet safari at no charge.This may sound strange, but its true!This is all thank to Killies, when I purchased Killies from Pet safari, they packet the killies with some java moss.
After settle down the killies in my main tank, I start to wondering will I be lucky to get Erect Moss instead of the java moss.And guess what, Erect Moss was spotted weeks later after speading new shoot from the existing strand!

Anyway, I like to thank Loh as I was one of the 250 person receiving the Christmas Moss fom him.

Regard
Eric Ng

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## molahs4

I, too, was one of the folks who was fortunate enough to receive some xmas moss from Loh's generosity. I now have a healthy stand of it in my tank and am sharing it with people here in California.

I would love to help dispurse the lovely erect moss here, but I don't think I will be able to make the event mentioned. :wink: I have a newborn and my wife probably wouldn't like it if I left home for that long. 

In exchange for the xmas moss, I made a contribution to the Aquatic Defense Fund to honor Loh's kindness. It sounds like Loh has made a good compromise and come to a reasonable solution. If someone is willing to mail a few strands overseas, I would be happy to ensure that there is no out of pocket expenses incurred.

Regards,

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## Daz

Over at AQ, i think i ever posted that Erected Moss is ADVERTISE to be available at Lake Aquarium at Ginza Plaza.

For who are keen might want to check it out. I myself is very very busy recently to go there and furthermore I am not too sure how erected moss look like.

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## timebomb

> I am not too sure how erected moss look like.


Here's a picture. I'm sure you will agree the name "Erect" is most apt. In the background is the Christmas Moss



Loh K L

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## timebomb

> If someone is willing to mail a few strands overseas, I would be happy to ensure that there is no out of pocket expenses incurred.


Scott, 

After the gathering, I will send you some Erect Moss for free. I may not have much left though so you may have to wait a while. But rest assured the moss will eventually be sent to you. I made you this promise some time back and I intend to keep it.

Loh K L

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## molahs4

Thanks, Loh. I, too, will honor my word and spread it here.

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## TS168

hi, Not sure if new comer got chance to have a purchase of the erect moss? 

This is my first post, have been checking out this forum for some nice forum about planted tank. 

Hope to learn more .... 

Cheers. 
TS OW

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## timebomb

> hi, Not sure if new comer got chance to have a purchase of the erect moss?


I don't see why not, Ow. But what I can bring to the gathering is limited so I would suggest you don't be late if you really want to get some Erect Moss.

Loh K L

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## TS168

THanks. I just got some cherry shrimp yesterday. So would like to have a try on plant. Just a begineer. Currently try grow riccia slowly. 

So may i know wat time will the shop open? THanks

Best Regards
TS Ow.

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## timebomb

> So may i know wat time will the shop open? THanks


I don't know what you mean by "wat time" but if it's "what time" you want to know, please read the post "Our very first gathering" in Killies Arena.

As owner of a public forum, I feel a certain responsibility not to encourage bad English. I won't correct grammatical errors or mis-spellings as my command of the language isn't that great either. But I would strongly discourage people from writing in short forms that are more commonly used in short-message-servicing. So please do not spell "wat" for "what". It can become a bad habit you can't shake off. Just take a look at the other posts. Although almost everyone here is trying to spell properly, inevitably there were quite a few posts that contain words like "wat" for "what" and "becos" for "because". I believe there are many people in Singapore who use short forms so often they believe such words have become acceptable in the language. In case you are one of such persons too, I like to inform you that there's no such word as "becos" in the English language. It's not even an accepted short-form or abbreviation. As far as I know, it's pidgin English. 

We don't insist that members write in perfect English but we also don't want this forum to degenerate into one where only Singaporeans understand what's being said and foreigners don't have a clue. Please read the 2 stickies in Killies Arena if you want to know why we are particular about the way posts are written. Thank you.

Loh K L

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## Daz

Ah, okay. Now I know how it look like. Will check it out at the LFS at Ginza now I am back after being away for the weekend.

Oh BTW, Karin mentioned to me that she will be having a shipment from Tropica this coming Sat. So folks who are keen to get some hard to find plants, can check it out on Sun. Alternatively can wait till the gathering.

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## virce

:Smile:  I'm one of the lucky ones who received Christmas Moss, among other plants, from Mr. Loh as well. His generousity never ceases to amaze me, and other people as well.

Ditto on English butchering. It gives quite a few people headaches just from reading it like that (including me). Besides, this board does not limit the amount of words you can put in, let alone characters. I'm sure a correct spelling not only will be effortless to type in, it can benefit other readers as well.

 :Laughing:  Mr Loh, I really wanted to reach into the monitor and pull out that tintillating oto that is on your front glass wall. That is an oto, isn't it? If you read my email you know how I want some but I have to wait till my LFS has them.  :Very Happy:  

Cheers,
Annette Chung

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## cks

> Many have also asked me to sell them the Downoi.


This topic has been going on in AQ today and many people have expressed an interst in your plant.  :Twisted Evil:  Some people are saying that it is very expensive and very rare. I hope to see this plant in person at the gathering.
Cheers
Dennis

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## timebomb

> This topic has been going on in AQ today and many people have expressed an interst in your plant.  Some people are saying that it is very expensive and very rare.


Oh yes, I'm aware of that, Dennis. Many people have been bugging  :Rolling Eyes:  me for this plant. I have limited stalks and I don't know if everyone who wants one will be able to get it during the gathering. Maybe you all will have to fight each other for it  :Laughing:  

I knew the plant is sold at very high prices in Bangkok but I was quite shocked when they say on AQ that even the farm which is growing them is quoting Sing $30 for a stalk. Rest assured I don't intend to sell the plant at such high prices but demand being what it is and supply being so limited, the plant would have to cost quite a fair bit. I hope my price won't make you faint  :Laughing:  When you pay for the plant, take comfort in the knowledge that you are also helping me with the web-hosting costs. :wink:

The plant is so rare many people on AQ have never even seen a picture of it before. So here's one for those who don't know what the Downoi looks like:



Loh K L

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## eric_kclee

> The plant is so rare many people on AQ have never even seen a picture of it before
> Loh K L


Haha...

That 'some people' is me....EricLee....posting the Downoi thing in AQ.

Thanks for the Picture...I have seen it life in Eco Culture display tank...They too have one. Thats is how it trigger me to post it in AQ...

Thru the post I know at least 3 sources that succesfully propagating this plant (including TimeBomb)

Forgive my ignorance, I didn't know Timebomb, KL Loh, and killies.com are all related. I thought Timebomb is an old master in Growing mosses, after reading your 'the dispute of...' post.

I wonder if I can join the gathering...
I have Green Barclaya Longifolia to share...but not too sure anyone interested in it...should I bring? am I welcome?

Rgds

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## timebomb

> Mr Loh, I really wanted to reach into the monitor and pull out that tintillating oto that is on your front glass wall. That is an oto, isn't it? If you read my email you know how I want some but I have to wait till my LFS has them.


Yes, Annette, that's an Oto. You should be able to bring many of them home with you when you come to Singapore in December. These days, Otos are easily available unlike the old days when only one fish shop had them and were selling them at sky-high prices. Besides the Otocinclus affinis, you can also find Zebra and Tiger Otos for sale in Singapore. I don't know what are their scientific names but these cost a lot more than the normal Oto. 

You should also think about bringing algae-eating shrimp home with you when you are here. I would suggest you set up some heavily planted tanks without fish and filters and breed the shrimp when you get home. The Malayan and Cherry Shrimp breed easily and in no time, you will have hundreds of them. 

By the way, thanks for the plug about "butchering the English Language". I need more forum users who are foreigners to speak up on this so that Singaporeans will understand why this forum is particular about the way posts are written. 

Loh K L

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## timebomb

> Thru the post I know at least 3 sources that succesfully propagating this plant (including TimeBomb)


You are welcomed to join the gathering, Eric. Sorry for not replying to your email but I thought I would do it later. As for your Barclaya, it's all up to you whether you want to bring it to the gathering but please take note that Karin Leow sells many varieties of aquatic plants so it would be better to check with her. 

Anyway, as far as I know, besides Eco-culture, the farm at Teo's Aquatics also has the Downoi. Teo's has a few more stalks than Eco because they got the plant earlier. No prizes for guessing how they got this plant but let's just say I'm on good terms with the guys at Teo's and Eco-culture's.

Eric, I would appreciate it very much when you quote a post, to quote only what is relevant. Here in killies.com, we have some very strict rules and uptight people  :Laughing: 

Loh K L

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## eric_kclee

Sorry, I'm new here...,,learning the rule bit by bit....
Timebomb, know that you have more than 30years in mosses, and you have spend a long time with Erect Moss.
Would you please help me to ID if this is Erect Moss



I found it in a bunch of other mosses that I bought. I planted it pointing down deliberately and the next morning, it just 'STOOD' up...

Appreciate your help...If this is off thread, please remove my post...I'm very tense in this uptight forum....  :Sad:  

(just kidding)

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## timebomb

> Sorry, I'm new here...,,learning the rule bit by bit....
> Would you please help me to ID if this is Erect Moss


Eric, I don't have 30 years in Mosses. I started growing them sometime in 1997. I do have many years in tropical fish though. I've been keeping fish since I was a kid.

From the picture, I think it is the Erect Moss. The Moss takes on different shapes under different conditions. When I bought mine from Sam Yick's, they looked just like yours. If you give them enough lighting, your moss should take on the same shapes as mine. 

You don't have to feel tense in this forum. You should, in fact, find this to be a friendly place. I would concede we seem to be stricter than the other forums based in Singapore and we have many rules. But the rules are there for the benefit of everyone. And we have to be strict because we know from how things are like in other forums, that many Singaporeans don't understand that there's such a thing as Netiquette. 

Many Singaporeans argue that there's no reason we shouldn't use Singlish or short-message-servicing short forms in our posts so long as other forum users understand what's being written. But they forget that the internet is without borders and in this message board in particular, we have many people from other nations. It would be downright rude to write in a language they cannot understand. 

We are patient and we try to wean every Singaporean who comes here off the bad habits they picked up in other forums. Some may not like it and they go away after one or 2 posts. But those who understand us and stay will find that this forum is special. 

In terms of membership, we are the smallest forum around but I like to think that here, the posts are of a much higher quality.

Loh K L

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## eric_kclee

> Eric, I don't have 30 years in Mosses. I started growing them sometime in 1997. 
> Loh K L


Mr Loh,
This is what you wrote in AQ on 'the dispute on the mosses"" name'
I quote exact
"I'm probably the only one here qualified to tell you the history because I've been in this hobby for more than 30 years and I'm old. "

Which is joke and which is truth?...Now you get me puzzle...I once thought my memory was bad...

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## timebomb

> I quote exact
> "I'm probably the only one here qualified to tell you the history because I've been in this hobby for more than 30 years and I'm old. "


I don't see anything contrary in the sentence which I wrote in a post on AQ many months ago. I've been in the hobby for more than 30 years, that's true. I didn't say anything about growing mosses for that long. So, what's there to be puzzled about? 

Loh K L

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## RonWill

> Which is joke and which is truth?...Now you get me puzzle...I once thought my memory was bad...


Eric, your memory isn't as bad as mine and I did followed that amusing thread, but truth be told... Kwek Leong is just old (and I'm one little step behind him!  :Laughing:  )

Stating 30 years in the hobby isn't unusual, since some of us started young. I was eight when I got my first tank... a heavy concrete thingie with a front glass panel that was held together with putty! Had I kept that tank, it would probably be older than some new hobbyists here :wink: 

Anyway, the word 'hobby', taken within context, is generalized and includes fishkeeping as well.

Re-read what KL wrote... he hasn't been keeping mosses for that long but you can teach an old dog new tricks!  :Laughing:

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## strung_0ut

hi eric klee
this may be late but looks to me like that plant is willow moss, i don't know if anyone really terms plants the right names, but if you search it fontinalis ayept..(whatever it is) on yahoo you might find certain ones that look the same and certain ones that look totally different, it looks like the plant is moss like, but it grows standing up because i had it before and it grew like anacharis and wasn't nearly as green as yours
well ya thats my opinion and i hope i don't get frowned upon because don't have the more experience others may
-Dennis :wink:

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