# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  My German Blue Ram just lay egg!

## Aquanoob

This morning, I suddenly noticed that my recently bought German Blue Ram lay egg on the substrate. There are about 50 eggs from my visual calculation and the female is directly on the egg while the male is patrolling the surrounding and chasing away other tank mates like Mollies and Platy. This is the 2nd time that I have GBR laying egg, the last time, the female ate the egg it lay on the driftwood overnight. I am thinking of removing the nosier tank mate like Mollies and Platy and leaving the endlers and cory inside the tank, is there anything else I need to do?

----------


## Aquanoob

Some picture that I managed to take, the male will charged at me when I am pointing the camera at the egg. Aggressive parent.

DSC02096.jpg

DSC02097.jpg

DSC02098.jpg

----------


## bernie

Congrats. Will get myself a pair next time.

----------


## chris168

Congrate bro... On the light through out the night or place a small lamp at the side of ur tank. This will usually prevent the parents from eating up the eggs or fries overnight...You should remove the fry after a week or two though. Their good parenting usually does'nt last forever. You can place them in a 10 gal. With a sponge filter and feed them with BBS. They love it. Good Luck !

----------


## jeffteo

Care to enlighten what is BBS please?  :Smile:

----------


## jeremiahtan

Congrats! Hope my electric blue ram will start some hanky panky too....

----------


## Aquanoob

BBS is Baby Brine Shrimp.
@Chris168: Thanks for the advice. The parents are aggressive to other tankmate fish now. I will remove the Mollies and Platy tonight.

----------


## jeffteo

Thanks. Will try that next time if mine every go the chance to lay eggs.
Mine too many "predators" in the tank.

----------


## Aquanoob

My tank got "predators" too, so have to remove them and leave the smaller endlers and cory inside the tank. Anyway, I read that they will hatch in about 40 hours which is about tomorrow morning. Will update their status.

----------


## chris168

Sorry for the short form. Live Baby Brine Shrimps.

----------


## jeffteo

Can't wait to see the off springs.

If selling later, reserve a few for me. Mine 1 of 2 died and look so lonely. it doesn't mixed around with the Electric blue...

----------


## PKB

Start preparing a Small Tank, probably a 1ft tank, fill it with water from the main tank. Put in a sponge filter (I use an air stone). 

Siphon the fries out once they are free swimming. Use a cane or stick, tied one end of the tubing (those use for air pump)to the stick. Use your finger to control the water flow at the other end where water is flowing out. Aim at the fries and suck the fries out. For food, feed them BBS.

The parents can't protect the fries for long especially with other fishes in the tank. For water change, I also use the air tube to suck out water, dirt, dead fries and dead BBS. Then top up again using water from the main tank, again use the small tubing to minimize water turbulence.

They will have in around 2 - 3 days.

----------


## Aquanoob

Thanks for the advices. Hope to see the egg hatch tomorrow morning.

----------


## stormhawk

The survival of your spawn primarily rests on the maturity of the pair. Some pairs are prone to being easily stressed and when faced with hungry tankmates like mollies and platies, they will just gobble up their eggs. These small cichlids spawn like clockwork on a regular basis IF they have no fry. If you remove their free-swimming fry to raise in a separate tank, they will spawn again within a week of losing their fry or eggs. The fry are bottom hugging, so food like microworms and BBS are a must for their survival. They will take finely crushed flake food at a certain point. Once they start on grindal worms or Tubifex, they will explode in size in the appropriate sized tank with regular water changes.

I don't know what Corydoras you have, but they are a bad idea for a tank with fry. Corydoras are excellent egg and fry hunters, especially when the lights are out. Also, because they are bottom hugging fish too, the parents will continuously attack them. This can be bad for the Corydoras.

----------


## PKB

Hi Stormhawk, 

How old is your German ram when they start feeding on tubifex worm? Mine was coming to 2 weeks old now.

----------


## stormhawk

At around 1 cm or so I start them on a worm diet for protein. Tubifex worms or grindal worms will do. As long as the fry can swallow the worm, they will grow fairly quickly. You can mix this diet with some flake food or crushed pellets. Note, not all fry will take the dry food willingly.

----------


## PKB

> At around 1 cm or so I start them on a worm diet for protein. Tubifex worms or grindal worms will do. As long as the fry can swallow the worm, they will grow fairly quickly. You can mix this diet with some flake food or crushed pellets. Note, not all fry will take the dry food willingly.


I have been feeding my fries with BBS and I switch to decap BBS, wonder if they will take it. Fries is around 1cm in length now.

----------


## bernie

> At around 1 cm or so I start them on a worm diet for protein. Tubifex worms or grindal worms will do. As long as the fry can swallow the worm, they will grow fairly quickly. You can mix this diet with some flake food or crushed pellets. Note, not all fry will take the dry food willingly.


Hi Stormhawk, is grindal worm readily available from LFS? Or do you culture it, do have a guide to it?

----------


## Aquanoob

It has been about 1.5-2 days and the eggs are still not hatched yet, from what I read from web articles and forum, it should hatch in about 40 hours. I have removed the Platy and Mollies to a spare 1ft cube tank and bought the Interpet Liquifry No. 1 in preparation of the ram fry. Quite a coincidence that the picture on the package is a German Ram.

----------


## chris168

No worries bro , Guess the eggs will hatch by tonight...

----------


## xXXXx13

Hi bro, congrats. It must be a pleasant surprise for you after your KL trip :Smile:  Your patience and hardwork had finally pay off, I'm sure the eggs will hatch soon. Have a little more patience  :Razz:  Cheers  :Grin:

----------


## Enespe

Congrats,can't wait to see the offspring swimming in your tank :Smile:

----------


## Aquanoob

@Steven, I only just bought the pair last Monday, never expect them to breed so fast but the female got a bright pink belly, and maybe that is the reason. Until this morning, the eggs are still intact and there is still no sign of hatching yet. The ram parents are still on top of the egg and patrolling the surrounding. will update when I see some tiny activities but I am not optimistic that I will see success in their first attempt. I actually also bought a cichlid cave for them but before I put it into the tank, they already started their family planning.  :Wink:

----------


## Aquanoob

Finally, I can report that there are some very tiny full-stop darting around the eggs area. The parents are still guarding the area and aggressively chasing away the endlers. I put in the Liquifry but the parents finished it in a short time, will put in some more regularly. The fries are really very tiny that I have to stress my eye to focus on and around the eggs. Hope that they can survive the crucial few days.

----------


## bernie

Bravo!! Consider removing all livestock except the mother to play safe.

----------


## PKB

> Bravo!! Consider removing all livestock except the mother to play safe.


I agreed, either keep the mother with the fries or Siphon the fries out when they are slightly larger.

I find that the mother is more protective of her youngs compare to the daddy. When I Siphon my fries out, the mother went all out to protect her fries attacking non stop while the male, erm... just try a bit and them give up.

And while in the tank, the mother was busy gathering thr fries while the daddy relac one side.

----------


## stormhawk

> Hi Stormhawk, is grindal worm readily available from LFS? Or do you culture it, do have a guide to it?


Hello bernie, they are not readily available at the LFSes. You have to get them from home breeders who raise them for sale or trade. 

On how to culture them, there are many resources you can find on Google. I keep mine in a scrubber pad culture. The box produces enough worms for me to feed my fishes at least once a day with gut-loaded grindals. They are fed on Hikari Carnivore Pellets and oatmeal every now and then.

Cichlid eggs will take anywhere between 3-4 days to hatch, with another 1-2 days before the fry are free-swimming. This is the usual scenario in most cases. The newly hatched fry will spend their time as wrigglers on the bottom of the tank, especially in a pit the parents dug up. Only when their egg yolk is used up, will they be able to swim around freely.

At this early stage, the use of microworm might be a necessity if they have not been moved to a separate tank for raising. The fry do not spend a lot of time away from the bottom of the tank, so the food must be of the sinking type as they will forage 99% of the time on the gravel itself. Liquifry is not a food in actual fact, but rather a means to induce an explosion in the growth of infusoria and other microscopic animals that the fry need to feed on. From memory, the fry are picky when young, as they will not show interest in non-moving food items.

----------


## Aquanoob

@Bernie, PKB and Stormhawk: Thank you for the advices. The reason why the endlers and cory are still in the tank is because they are not easy to catch, unlike the Mollies and Platy just swim directly into the net. I don't think the endlers are any match to the ram parents, and my 2 cory hide far far away as I witnessed how the male bite the cory tail when they are too near to his comfort. I also don't want to cause a commotion in the tank with the catching of the endlers as they are fast swimer and disturb the fry and parent.

----------


## PKB

> @Bernie, PKB and Stormhawk: Thank you for the advices. The reason why the endlers and cory are still in the tank is because they are not easy to catch, unlike the Mollies and Platy just swim directly into the net. I don't think the endlers are any match to the ram parents, and my 2 cory hide far far away as I witnessed how the male bite the cory tail when they are too near to his comfort. I also don't want to cause a commotion in the tank with the catching of the endlers as they are fast swimer and disturb the fry and parent.


It's not a matter of endler winning the fight against the parent rams. Witness with my own eyes when I lost some fries to Ember Tetra with the Rams pair guarding them. There are simply to many fires and the ram parents are too busy with them. Some will bond to wonder off the protecion zone and get eaten. There are some that are eaten right in front of the parent eyes, mt rummy nose dash in took a fries and dash off, the ram don't even have time to react. That's when I decide to siphon them out to protect them.

----------


## xXXXx13

yeah :Jump for joy: .happy for your new fries  :Very Happy: 

for catching of endlers, you might want to catch them after lights off timing. Their movement will be a lot slower.

as of the mollies and platies, they might had forgot how the fish net looks like :Grin:  mine will take cover once the net is near :Razz:

----------


## Aquanoob

This morning, the fry are free-swimming and stick around their parent. They are responding to the Liquifry that I put in. I tried to take picture of the fry but they are too tiny and I can't focus on them with my camera.

----------


## Stitch

Oh how lucky. The last time I put in the liquifry, the mum went for it rather the fry and then puke it out clouding the water around it. Not sure if the fry gets it. Perhaps not cos they died few days later. You mean the fry just went for it when it went down?

----------


## Aquanoob

The parent also went for the Liquifry but I saw the fries surrounding the food too. Went to Y618 and the boss said that they are still too tiny and can only eat Brine Shrimp and Boon/Daphnia after about 1 week old. The parent are superb aggressive now and I am also taking out as many endlers as I can, leave behind the ram and cory together. The 2 cory are hiding in one corner as I saw them being biten by the male ram, so I guess there should be no problem.

----------


## Aquanoob

Managed to catch all the endlers inside the tank, now left ram parent, fries and 2 cory in the tank. I forgot to mention that I also bought the Hikari First Bites, a powder form fry food, which I mix with a bit of tank water to make it become a gel that readily sink into water. I saw the fries going for it too.

----------


## stormhawk

If the parents swallow the Liquifry and disperse it as a cloud around the fry, this is their way of feeding their fry. Liquifry itself should not be squirted directly in the tank, but mixed in a plastic container with some water to dilute it somewhat. Otherwise the fry will not pick at the blob of Liquifry you squirt in.

----------


## Aquanoob

Sad to report that the fries are all gone yesterday night. I counted about 100 on Friday night and about 50% gone on Saturday morning and by yesterday night, I can't see a single fry any more and the parents were not guarding anywhere. It had been a great learning experience but I thought it will be a better outcome. I did what the hobbyists here suggested like switching on the light throughout the night, feeding the fry with Liquifry, First Bites, Decap BSE and is in the process of hatching the BBS to let the fries eat some live food. I also took out almost all but 2 of the tank mates, being cory which I have difficulties in catching them.

I realised that I can do much more like feeding live food to the fries earlier and taking out the parents which I was waiting for the fries to get slightly bigger before doing so. I should have feed more food to the parents which is possible that they snapped up the fries because they were hungry.

Like what I said, I have gained knowledge and experience in this amazing 6 days and I think the parents will have another and many more chances to breed again, and I will be better prepared this time.

----------


## bernie

Sad to hear that on a sunny Sunday morning.  :Crying: 
I am sure they will spawn again. When time comes, do these:
1) Leave only the mother and the fries in the tank.
2) Feed live food.

Good luck.

----------


## xXXXx13

Yoz bro, sad to hear the bad news. Take it positively and learn from this experience ba. I'm sure your rams will breed again. Cheers  :Wink:

----------


## stormhawk

Aquanoob,

Great way to see things. This is exactly the mindset that a successful breeder should have. You will definitely be better prepared the next time they spawn, which should be soon. I had a pair that would spawn almost every 2 weeks once their last bunch of fry died away or were taken from them.

----------


## Aquanoob

@Bernie, Steven & Stormhawk, thank you for your comments and encouragement. I am having a dilemma right now with my fishes. I took out all the fishes except for 2 cory in my 2 feet tank and transfer them to a back-up 1 feet tank last week. The 1 feet tank looks quite cramped with the mollies, platy and endlers and I put back a couple of endlers back to the 2 feet tank as dither fish to the ram parent. Should I do the opposite and switch the tank between the ram and other fishes? I don't think the ram need so much space to breed and in a smaller 1 feet tank, I can concentrate on them easier.

----------


## jeffteo

Sound like an idea but might not be a good one. You might need to do more WC due to the lower volume of water to keep the water quality high for the Ram.

----------


## chris168

Hi there, Sorry to hear the lost of the fries. It would be great to shift just the the pair into the 1 ft tank for them to spawn. They will feel much secure without any other fishy inside and it is easier for you to look after the fries too... Will be looking forward to hear your good news again ! Cheers!

----------


## Aquanoob

Just checking is it a must to put dither fish together with the ram as the purpose is to "to reduce innate timidity in some species of cichlids" (From Wikipedia)? I am currently using endler to be the dither fish now as they are fast and small and I don't think the ram parent can match their speed.

----------


## jeremiahtan

Hi guys,

sorry to hijack this thread, was thinking that since we are on the topic of rams spawning I can ask my question here as well.

I just came back from Taipei and saw that my pair of my Electric Blue Rams has laid eggs. However, when I switched on the light they seemed panicky and the female went to eat her eggs.

Is it because of the lights that the female is eating the eggs or something else?

Shown here are the eggs, cheers!

Eggs(1).JPG

Eggs(2).JPG

BTW, the reason why you are seeing two different pictures of my EBR females is because, last night I saw that my first pair had laid eggs but I went to switch on the light to admire them but in the morning the eggs were gone. So I went gym in the afternoon and to my surprise, another pair laid eggs during noon and now, this pair is eating theirs up too. Double misery I would say, can someone teach me why these fellas r eating their eggs  :Sad:

----------


## Aquanoob

I think it is due to stress and shock that they encountered. Do you have other fish in the same tank?

----------


## jeffteo

My Electric Blue spawned on the soil last night but the parents was overwhelmed by the one and only German Blue which is almost double their size. First time I see the father charge at the German Blue and ending is they back off when I was approaching and the German Blue went to attack the eggs. Tried to fish it out but not an easy task and there are many other fish in the tank. So ended up I use those plastic pots for plants to cover over the eggs. Luckily the eggs are laid near a high flow area so should not turn moldy. Just trying my luck only as I know the survival rate of the spawn in a comm tank is very low. Just let nature take its course ba...
Thinking of it, seems like we might be the cause of the parents eating of abandoning their eggs.

----------


## Aquanoob

I think our presence is one of the stress factor that the ram encountered. When my ram spawn 2 weeks ago, I can spend hours staring at the eggs then then the fries together with the parent. They are aware of our presence as our head is so big.  :Razz:  I think the other tank mates are also a factor as they need to chase away any intruders and they also take very few break in guarding the fries and egg, tiredness is a stress too.

----------


## PKB

Don't keep sitting in front of the tank and stare at the eggs. Just just it a quick check once or twice everyday to check if the eggs are still there or is there any fries. Don't adust their surrounding. Just leave them alone and they will know what to do.

1 ) Once the fries are free swimming, siphon them out. (Use the small air tube)
2 ) Use back the main tank water to fill up the grown up tank that you are going to keep your fries. 
3 ) Put in some moss
4 ) Add in an air pump with air stone but don't full blast the pump, just gentle aernation will do. 
5 ) Feed them BBS and change water every 1-2 days. I suck out the water using the small air tube and and fill it back with the main tank water again.
Try to clear as many uneaten/dead BBS, debri or dead fries when you do water change.

Enjoy the process.

----------


## Aquanoob

This is my current situation with the ram. I shifted the 2 ram into a 1 feet tank with 2 endlers as dither fish so that they can breed again after the failed previous attempt. But I noticed the the male ram seems to dislike the female suddenly. He will chase the female for long period although there is no over-aggression from what i see. Is he trying to get the female to breed or is he trying to be the alpha-male and dominate the tank by himself? 
By the way, the 2 ram show no aggression to the 2 endlers at all.

----------


## jeffteo

> This is my current situation with the ram. I shifted the 2 ram into a 1 feet tank with 2 endlers as dither fish so that they can breed again after the failed previous attempt. But I noticed the the male ram seems to dislike the female suddenly. He will chase the female for long period although there is no over-aggression from what i see. Is he trying to get the female to breed or is he trying to be the alpha-male and dominate the tank by himself? 
> By the way, the 2 ram show no aggression to the 2 endlers at all.


Same thing happen my pair also. It seems like the male is "blaming" the female for loosing the eggs and chasing her around. But most of the time they are still swimming together.

----------


## Aquanoob

I am thinking of getting another female ram to add into the tank but will it disrupt the couple's breeding plan and make the situation worse and unbalance? Or the male will have one more female to choose from although I read before that they will stick to their couple?

----------


## jeremiahtan

> I am thinking of getting another female ram to add into the tank but will it disrupt the couple's breeding plan and make the situation worse and unbalance? Or the male will have one more female to choose from although I read before that they will stick to their couple?


Yes, I heard that they stick with the same mate.

Do you think its possible to take out all the eggs and transfer it to another tank? Will the eggs still hatch? My EBR ate up the last batch and now they have laid another set of eggs.

----------


## PKB

> Yes, I heard that they stick with the same mate.
> 
> Do you think its possible to take out all the eggs and transfer it to another tank? Will the eggs still hatch? My EBR ate up the last batch and now they have laid another set of eggs.


No, they do not stick to the same mate. My 2 pair of ram have just exchange partner and spawned. Leave the eggs with the parent ram, they will fan the eggs and eat up all the non fertilize & spoil eggs to keep the good eggs healthy. Siphon out the fry only after they are free swimming.

----------


## jeremiahtan

> No, they do not stick to the same mate. My 2 pair of ram have just exchange partner and spawned. Leave the eggs with the parent ram, they will fan the eggs and eat up all the non fertilize & spoil eggs to keep the good eggs healthy. Siphon out the fry only after they are free swimming.


Okay thanks PKB, in addition I should not feed bloodworms too close to the spawning site right? As the parents may feel threaten and eat the eggs?

----------


## PKB

> Okay thanks PKB, in addition I should not feed bloodworms too close to the spawning site right? As the parents may feel threaten and eat the eggs?


Just leave them alone and they will take care of the eggs. Too many outside activities in the tank and they will eat the eggs. Just drop the food into the tank, the pair will take turn to forage for food. Enjoy the process  :Smile:

----------


## jeremiahtan

Thanks PKB, now I start to think its the endlers in the tank that causes stress to the EBR parents. Before I could feed them today, I found that all the EBR eggs are gone. Seriously, I dont know what is wrong....  :Sad:  I didnt sit by the aquarium or switch on the lights. Sigh sigh sigh....

----------


## PKB

> Thanks PKB, now I start to think its the endlers in the tank that causes stress to the EBR parents. Before I could feed them today, I found that all the EBR eggs are gone. Seriously, I dont know what is wrong....  I didnt sit by the aquarium or switch on the lights. Sigh sigh sigh....


First time spawning?

----------


## jeremiahtan

> First time spawning?


 It is either their first or second time spawning, does that play a role?

----------


## PKB

> It is either their first or second time spawning, does that play a role?


The 2nd or 3rd spawn will have higher success rate. By the way, don't feel to sad that your ram have eaten the eggs now, they will spawn again is less than a month time.

----------


## Aquanoob

I have also taken out the 2 endler dither fish in my 1ft tank as well, now the whole tank only the 2 ram together. The male is not chasing the female anymore and the female is showing very pinkish spot again. crossing my finger...  :Wink:

----------


## jeremiahtan

> The 2nd or 3rd spawn will have higher success rate. By the way, don't feel to sad that your ram have eaten the eggs now, they will spawn again is less than a month time.


 Thanks for the encouragement PKB, I will heed your advice =)

----------


## sianxz

Good luck for your next spawn ~ Do update us again  :Smile:

----------


## Aquanoob

Just came home and noticed that my ram parent had spawn again and this time it is on a small piece of pebble. They are very aggressive and will charge at me when I tried to take a picture of the egg. I counted about 200 eggs with my inexperient eye. The pictures will be upload tomorrow.

----------


## Aquanoob

Eggs Parade row by row. Eggs, Fall In! I think should have about 200 eggs?

DSC02159.jpg 

DSC02160.jpg

The Female Ram

DSC02154.jpg 

DSC02162.jpg

----------


## Aquanoob

Male Ram

DSC02158.jpg

DSC02157.jpg

----------


## bernie

Congrats again. Wow can lay so many eggs!! Try not to spook them by staring at them, staying too close too much as they might be still inexperience. Good luck.

----------


## 12end

Haha good luck! keep us updated on them~

----------


## Aquanoob

2nd day of the egg: It had become darker and it should hatch soon.

DSC02182.jpg

DSC02183.jpg

Female Ram and egg:

DSC02178.jpg

Male ram and egg:

DSC02169.jpg

----------


## xXXXx13

Hi bro, once again congrats and good luck for the hatching  :Smile:

----------


## Aquanoob

Hi Steven, thanks for the encouragement. The eggs are doing fine and the parent have shifted them to a more shadily location as shown in the pictures below:

DSC02190.jpg

DSC02191.jpg

----------


## Aquanoob

The fries are free swimming yesterday night and the below are the pictures:

DSC02226.jpg

----------


## xXXXx13

Cheers for the fries  :Smile:  Do separate them from the parents.

----------


## chris168

Finally... Such a big batch...Do remember don't over feed the fries...

----------


## sianxz

Yay !! You succeeded  :Very Happy:  Congrats on your spawn ~!

So happy for you ~ Hahas  :Razz:

----------


## PKB

> The fries are free swimming yesterday night and the below are the pictures:
> 
> DSC02226.jpg


Beautiful... now must prepare a grow up tank for the little ones.

Seperate them from the parent and go buy some BBS to feed them.

----------


## jeffteo

My EB pair that spawn the last time round broke off and the EB female went and spawn with the GBR. Both are guarding the nest more aggressively than the last time round. To start off with the GBR male is already more aggressive than the EB male giving him no chance to be near the nest. The EB female also charge at the EB male that she once par off with.
So... they are not that faithful after all. At least for mine.

----------


## Aquanoob

Sad to update that my fries are all gone. I separated them from their parent and kept them in a 1 feet tank alone, but I think the water quality is the main culprit as they died off a few each day. I just have to learn from experience and hope that their next spawn will be a more fruitful one.

----------


## xXXXx13

Hey bro, sad to hear that. Well...take it as a learning experience like you said. Better chances next time. Cheers.

----------


## Aquanoob

It is with great pleasure to announce that my German Blue Ram pair have spawned again. It is the same male but a different female as the previous female was injured and died in the last spawn batch by the aggressive male. This time, they spawned in the community tank and I only saw the free swimming fries this morning. The parent are guarding them aggressively but with so many predators around like the Platy, Guppies, I think the chances for the fries are quite slim. I just gave the fries Liquidfry and First Bite and will give them BBS soon. I will try to take some pictures of the ram pair with the fries but it will be quite hard as my tank surface is full of green algae.

----------


## Stitch

How did you feed the liquidfry? You just dropped it into the tank or how did you do it? How do you know that the fry ate it?

----------


## Aquanoob

This is what I learn from the forum. I mixed the liquidfry with a bit of the tank water, and then I use a syringe to suck up the mixture and pump it to the ball of fries. I can see that they are surrounding the mixture and at least some should be eating it. If other hobbyists have other better ideas, please do share with us.

----------


## GuppyLover

Hahah ! Congrats on your new fries Nicholas ! Hope you will have success with this batch.  ::smt043:

----------


## Aquanoob

Thank you. I told u about them when we met at Y618 and the next day, I can see free swimming fries in the tank. The parent are guarding them and I have started to feed them BBS, see how this time goes.

----------


## stormhawk

Have a microworm culture on standby in case your BBS hatch encounters problems. Those tiny worms are a lifesaver.

----------


## Aquanoob

Spamming alert! I think that ztlights is spamming the forum. Can the mods look into this?

----------


## bernie

> Spamming alert! I think that ztlights is spamming the forum. Can the mods look into this?


 
Not only that, saw a few already. Thinks they are not based in Singapore.

----------


## Aquanoob

I don't have success with the current ram fries again, they are all gone within one week again. But I see that the male and female are together again and there may be another spawn coming. Keeping my finger cross.

----------


## sianxz

So sad, i tot you succeeded when your fries hatched and started swimming around the parents =(

----------


## Aquanoob

This is like the third or fourth times that I have the free swimming fries but somehow they are gone within a week either eaten up by the parent or due to the water condition or whatever reason. I have to learn from experiences and hopefully the next spawn will be a fruitful one.

----------


## andytan

hi my electric blue rams have laid eggs on 8 oct and the fries are hatched on 11oct. Now they are 9 days old and swimming happily. I removed the male after he killed the female on the 10th oct. I guess she was trying to eat up the eggs although I fed them very well. Was trying to breed them so the pair was in a 1 ft tank all by themselves. Fed the fries with liquid food for 1st 2 days before feeding them live brine shrimps. Looks like it will be another week before they are big enough to eat live tubiflex worms. Just started to change some water 20% water 2 days ago. Hoping for the best.

----------


## andytan

Can't post any photos yet as the tank is full of green algea on the glass. Too risky to clean them at this stage. Will post photos when they are bigger and more stable so that I can clean the front glass surface. I estimate its about 50 to 60 fries.

----------


## sianxz

Aquanoob, why dont you remove the parent rams after the fry are free swimming since they serve no purpose after the fry start swimming ?

----------


## andytan

Yup I agree with bro Sianzx that you should experiment removing the parents once the fries are hatched. If in community tank I personally think it's very difficult to breed them as the other fishes are a threat and the parents will eat them or the fries will be eaten by other fishes.

----------


## andytan

Sori bro Sianxz, mispelled your nickname.

----------


## Aquanoob

I did remove the ram parent in the last 2 spawns and it is only the fries with no other fish in a 1 feet tank feeding on bbs and baby fish food but they also won't last more than 1 week. Just have to learn from mistakes and improve on it the next time.

----------


## sianxz

Correct me if i am wrong, but i honestly do not think there parents help in anyway or contribute to the survival of the fries. If in any case, they would eat the weaker fries to let the strong ones grow stronger. 

Hence, if you ask me, i do not think your fries died because of the absence of the parents but probably some other factor

----------


## Aquanoob

Definitely not due to the absence of parent that the fries died, it should be due to the water condition. My first 2 spawn was eaten up by the parent and that is why I took them out during the last 2 spawn, but they still survive only a week max. It's ok, I will be more ready for the next coming spawns.....

----------


## andytan

photo(3).JPGphoto(2).jpg
Here are 2 pics of my electric blue fries. they are about 2-3mm and 13 days old. 1st time posting pics from my iphone. don't know how they will turn out. Hoping that they will start eating tubilflex worms or dry food or frozen brine shrimps. Quite tedious hatching bbs.

----------


## andytan

Here are some pics of my juvenile electric blue rams. They are 6 weeks old about 1 to 1.5cm and fed on frozen brine shrimps and live tubiflex worms. Been trying to get them to feed on dry food but they are not interested at all. Any bros can recommend any particular kind of dry food to try? Have been trying out discus tetra bits(grinded a bit smaller) and Hai Feng Tetra food.

----------


## bernie

Try hikari micro pellets.

----------


## andytan

Thx Bernie. Will buy some tomor and try again.

----------


## Aquanoob

After a long search for the German Blue Ram, I finally got hold of a young pair in Tampines on Wednesday night. I feed them with Brine Shrimp on Thursday and Friday. On Saturday, I started to find that the pair was behaving strangely but I just take it that they were still adjusting to the new tank environment and the tank mates. But to my surprise and shock, I found that they have spawned on the substrate in my jungle of H.Polysperma. They have been in my tank for only 4 days and this was the fastest record of the GBR spawning in my tank. 

The pair are in my 2 feet tank together with the guppies, sae, one lonely Platy and Cory. There is no chance for me to net out the eggs for now and it is too late also. I will wait until the fry are free-swimming then I will net them out into another tank. This is my 5-6th time of GBR spawning and I am crossing my fingers that they can grow up this time. 

My Male Ram:

 

Female: The belly is still not as red on arrival in my tank on Wednesday night, but now very red and hiding away guarding the egg.



Male again:



The Male guarding the egg. The white stuff on the substrate are the eggs

----------


## xXXXx13

Hey bro, congrats and all the best for this spawn.

----------


## crabby:)

Hi my pair of electric balloon rams just layed eggs should i seperate the egss to a seperate tank with the only the mum?or both parents? My tank has 22 tetras and 1 cory,thanks :Wink:

----------


## Aquanoob

Just an update, the fry are free-swimming now and is on diet of bbs and powder food, will separate the fry and the parent very soon.

----------


## Stitch

Congrats. What powder food you gave them?

----------


## square_87

great breeding journal! thank you for sharing those awesome pictures!  :Smile:

----------


## Aquanoob

I am the very kiasu type, I have Liquidfry, Hikari First Bites and Oceanfree Super Baby as the powder food, and I also feed them the baby brine shrimp when possible. I try to do the best I can to make sure the fry survive their first weeks and go on to many more weeks. I like the colour and character of GBR and I will continue to keep them.

----------


## sianxz

Nice Rams bro, you rams look skinny. Maybe you should feed them more  :Very Happy:

----------


## Aquanoob

They are still very young when I bought them. I wasnt expect them to breed so fast within 4 days. And from then now, they are eating very little to chase away predators like the guppies, platy and even SAEs, so that is reason they are rather skinny. But they are very aggressive to any fish near to the fry and I have already lost 2 guppies with injury from them.

----------


## stormhawk

Nice spawn there Aquanoob. The cheap Rams I bought from C328 turned out to be young GBRs.  :Grin: 

Very hard to get a pic the males are constantly fighting.

@crabby :Smile: 

If that is possible you should do it, or leave a weak light on at night so the female can ward off intruders. Corydoras are egg eaters and tetra are fry killers in community tanks.

----------


## Aquanoob

Sad to announce that I have lost the fry again. I net out the fry into a guppy tank with the water from the comm tank and also put in some moss in the water so that maybe they can feed off the micro-organism on the moss too. On Sunday, I have to go oversea on a last-minute business trip and I told my wife to feed the fry food and try to monitor the condition. Then when I came back tonight, the fry are somehow all dead and according to my wife they started to behave oddly on Monday and all were gone by today morning. Somehow it is always like this for me that I lost the fry due to unknown or uncontrollable causes. The biz trip came at a wrong time but I can't take care of the fry myself. This is like the 6-7th that the GBR spawned and I have lost the fry in days to a max of 2 weeks. I also noticed that the male ram is once again chasing the female around although it is smaller than the female. I have also net out the female ram and will feed it with brine shrimp for a week and release it into the comm tank with the male ram again and I think that they should spawn again very quickly and hopefully I will be around to take care of them.

----------


## andytan

Hi Aquanoob, sad to hear that you lost the whole batch of fries. By the way what did you feed the fries with? I use liquidfry for 3 to 4 days before feeding them live baby brine shrimps(newly hatched). After that its live baby brine shrimps for the next 2 to 3 weeks before frozen baby shrimps. Could not get them to eat dry food after that no matter how hard I tried but by then its quick easy as they are quick stable. Good luck next time.

----------


## lowniu

any special condition then it just will lay egg???

----------


## Aquanoob

@andytan, the food that I feed to the fry are further up the thread.
@lowniu, actually GBR do spawn readily in the tank. I keep them for quite long time, and the longer that a pair spawn in my tank is about 2-3 weeks and the fastest isn just 4 days. I keep them in a planted tank but I never check or measure on the parameter so I can't comment on the water condition they are in.

----------


## Stitch

How big were the baby brine shrimp when you fed them to the female ram?
My brine shrimps now are about 2 days old.
I tried on several occasions, my rams seem to be blind, cannot see the brine shrimp. Too small for the rams to spot?
I already squeezed all the brine shrimp into the tank and they are still waiting near the syringe for food? zzz.
Must I wait for the shrimps to be bigger if i am feeding the bigger rams?




> Sad to announce that I have lost the fry again. I net out the fry into a guppy tank with the water from the comm tank and also put in some moss in the water so that maybe they can feed off the micro-organism on the moss too. On Sunday, I have to go oversea on a last-minute business trip and I told my wife to feed the fry food and try to monitor the condition. Then when I came back tonight, the fry are somehow all dead and according to my wife they started to behave oddly on Monday and all were gone by today morning. Somehow it is always like this for me that I lost the fry due to unknown or uncontrollable causes. The biz trip came at a wrong time but I can't take care of the fry myself. This is like the 6-7th that the GBR spawned and I have lost the fry in days to a max of 2 weeks. I also noticed that the male ram is once again chasing the female around although it is smaller than the female. I have also net out the female ram and will feed it with brine shrimp for a week and release it into the comm tank with the male ram again and I think that they should spawn again very quickly and hopefully I will be around to take care of them.

----------


## stormhawk

The fry will ignore the small foods at a certain age and prefer larger food items like worms and such. Adult Rams should eat the adult brine shrimp right off the bat if they are hungry. Mine takes anything.

----------


## Stitch

@Stormhawk, my brine shrimp now is about the size of a dust particle. So that means it is too small for the adult ram? So I should wait till the brine shrimps are bigger before I fed them to the adult ram? No wonder they seems blind to the baby brine shrimp now... too small to be noticed...???

----------


## stormhawk

That means you are using BBS aka baby brine shrimp. Try adult brine shrimp. Adult Rams will not go for tiny foods unless they are hungry. Mine occasionally ignore Moina..  :Knockout:

----------


## andytan

Try frozen blood worms for the adults. They just love them. Somehow my adult rams do not like frozen brine shrimps.

----------


## Stitch

@Stormhawk, yes i hatched the BBS from eggs. 
They are now kept in aerated water. I fed them every alternate day with Liquidfry (commercial food for the eggs-layer fish).
Can I raised them till adult stage? How long would it take? Must do water change or just top with water? How often to change?

----------


## stormhawk

I think about 2 weeks from BBS to adult. You must change the water with fresh brine solution (salt + water) every 2 days or so. Not 100% but about 20% to 50%. A bigger tank might be better if you intend to raise these to adults. They appreciate filtration because in a BBS hatchery, the ammonia levels can rise pretty quickly once the majority of BBS start to die. Mine survived from hatch till adult for awhile, before dying. You can keep adult brine shrimp instead if you want, just for fun. In a brine water tank, they survive pretty well and will produce live young.

----------


## Aquanoob

My GBR pair spawned again last week and I believe the fry will be free-swimming very soon. Will update again.

----------


## Numbskull

WOW!

That was fast!! Congrats! and hows your fries??? hatched?

----------


## Aquanoob

Numbskull, I took out the fry on Thursday and Friday and is now keeping the fry in a nursery tank feeding baby food and bbs. The fry are doing well and I hope I can update them as the grow up. Today while checking on the GBR parents, I noticed that the female is once again at her spawning spot. When I look closely, I saw eggs again on the substrate. It seems like the brine shrimp I have been feeding them is working again. I think the egg will hatch on either Thursday or Friday. Will update on the egg and fry by then.

----------


## Stitch

Aquanoob,

Did you hatch the brine shrimp yourself?
Possible to start a new thread and share with us how you did it and how often you need to change the water and if you feed the brine shrimp?
I would like to hatch the brine shrimp and feed my rams like what you did. See if they spawn for me too  :Smile:  .
Thanks.

----------


## stormhawk

Stitch, see this webpage for info on how to make your own hatchery:

http://www.killies.com/Brineshrimphatchery.htm
Website by Loh KL aka timebomb

Hatching the BBS is easy, but raising them to adulthood means you need a separate tank with saltwater conditions and a matured sponge filter. Much more economical and easier to just buy adult brine shrimp at LFS that stock them, like C328 and Polyart in the west.

----------


## Aquanoob

No, I bought the brine shrimp from Y618 at least twice a week to feed the fish including the ram, guppies, apisto, adult kribs and fry. What I do is to pour the brine shrimp into a net and transfer them into a small guppy tank with distilled water and aquarium salt. Never never use the water that come with the brine shrimp as it is very salty and you never know what paradise is in the water. I will also put a small air stone connected to the air pimp into the brine shrimp tank to aerate the water. They can last more than a few days but before that I will have feed them all to the hungry mouths already.
I did exact the same with the baby brine shrimp bought from Y618 too, only that I feed them with syringe to suck them up and feed them to the ram and kribs fry. I bought the bbs egg but I was too lousy to hatch them so I just them from the shop.

----------


## andytan

You can hatch your own bbs. just buy the bbs eggs from LFS. Pour a quarter teaspoonful into a 1.5 litre pet bottle and add water and 4 to 5 spoonful of marine salt(table salt won't do). aerate with an airstone and they will hatch in 24 hrs. You can see LFS at c328 doing the same. The only problem is that only 50 to 60% of eggs will hatch leaving behind the unhatched eggs. To retrieve the bbs, take out the airstone, let the unhatched eggs settled down then pour out the required amount you need to feed. Add some more water and salt and put back the airstone till the next feeding time. You have to have 2 batches running at the same time. Quite tedious but you save $$$$. Its $1.5 a bag. Good thing is that you need to do this for a week. the fries grows very fast and very soon they can eat frozen bbs.

----------

