# Other Aquarium Forums > Fish Care, Nutrition and Water Management >  Why's my tank not showing nitrate or nitrite ?

## Lxj

40litre tank 4 weeks old, I use prime and fluval cycle .

I can can see ammonia and do a water change every 2-3days 10l or 20l.

4 weeks and still no nitrite or nitrate is this normal?

i have lost fish too
thanks

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## genki89

The tank is still cycling. The colony of bb has not yet been fully established to convert the amount of amonia produce to be converted into nirite.

For shorter period (impatient), u can get super 8000 series of bb from lfs. Dose it to boost the speed. However, since u have fish, i don know if it is safe as it will kick start or restart ur tank cycling

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

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## Allesgut

too little detail of your fish community and ammonia readings. please share more.

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## Laika

What fish have you lost? What test kit are you using? And if you see any ammonia you want to do a 75% water change at least daily. The lack of clean water would of been the reason for the fish dieing.

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## Lxj

Hi I've lost 4 neon tetra 1 otocinclus . Using the api test kits for ammonia nitrate and nitrite . When I test water and if there is ammonia I will change water so that no ammonia is showing . 
I'm not showing any nitrate in water tests, I'm getting nitrite, and will do a water change, tank is 5 weeks old. 
Any help/advice appreciated Thanks in advance

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## Urban Aquaria

Sounds like your tank is still in the middle of the cycling process and the fishes are getting affected by the spikes in parameters. Just continue doing the water changes since you have fishes in the tank (to help reduce the harmful effects on them), eventually your tank will complete cycling, just give it some time.

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## Lxj

Thank you . Started to think I was doing something wrong.

Just noticed a neon biting at my bettas fins when feeding.

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## Lxj

Poor betta he's had white spot, a cyst which is being treated with a bacterial treatment . All gunk is currently coming out and the neons have picked at this too (on the side of betta face) when feeding them - maybe they thought it was food??? They did spit it out.

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## Laika

> Poor betta he's had white spot, a cyst which is being treated with a bacterial treatment . All gunk is currently coming out and the neons have picked at this too (on the side of betta face) when feeding them - maybe they thought it was food??? They did spit it out.


That betta should be in a tank on his own, your other fish will bully it to death. You shouldn't have that many fish in a small tank cycled or not. They are being poisoned by their own waste.

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## Urban Aquaria

If the betta is infected with white spot and still has visible cysts you should be treating the entire tank for Ich infection. When white spot/ich cysts erupt thats when thousands of free swimming ich tomits spread to other fishes.

The fluctuating and toxic parameters in your cycling tank will greatly lower the fishes resistance to infections so you will need to solve all those issues as soon as possible, otherwise the Ich infection will persist for a very long time and infect new fishes even after the tank is cycled.

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## Lxj

Hi there so you you think ich has caused the cyst ? As I am using a bacterial treatment as advised by two pet shops .

when the bacterial treatment has finished, I will try using a treatment for white spot.

he has had white spot previously, I could see what looked like grains of rice on him, and treated him and thought it had gone and then He had a whitish looking bump which just seemed to slowly get bigger and bigger and burst when I started a bacteria treatment, all orangey looking stuff was/is coming out.

i had no idea my tank was overstocked , and will look into rehoming the neons. I didn't realise they would bully my beta.

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## Lxj

I will up the temp in my tank too. How long should I keep my tank at this temp, and will the higher temp cause catfish or neons or my betta to die. I will slowly increase temp from 26 currently to 30 degrees. Thanks in advance , this is soo much more complicated than I initially thought, keeping fish, I just want a happy healthy tank.

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## Laika

This is what you want for white spot, http://www.amazon.co.uk/ESHA-EXIT-WH.../dp/B0016CBTYW

Your tank should be around 22degrees usually so 26 at the minute will help speed up the ich life cycle so they drop out of your fish strait into the water that has the white spot treatment in it and kill them. I would double the length of time you do the treatment also (run the treatment twice back to back)

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi there so you you think ich has caused the cyst ? As I am using a bacterial treatment as advised by two pet shops .
> 
> when the bacterial treatment has finished, I will try using a treatment for white spot.
> 
> he has had white spot previously, I could see what looked like grains of rice on him, and treated him and thought it had gone and then He had a whitish looking bump which just seemed to slowly get bigger and bigger and burst when I started a bacteria treatment, all orangey looking stuff was/is coming out.
> 
> i had no idea my tank was overstocked , and will look into rehoming the neons. I didn't realise they would bully my beta.


Usually for white spot/ich, their cysts are those tiny white dots like fine salt particles... i guess the larger cyst on your betta could be due to a separate secondary infection. 

Either way its always better to separate infected fishes to a hospital tank and treat them there, rather then leave them in a community tank whereby their infections could still spread around.

I guess at this point in time, you'll just have to assume that whatever is infecting the betta is now in the water column, so just have to continue anti-bacterial and anti-parasite treatment.

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## Lxj

Unfortunately I haven't got a spare tank. 

All the other fish do appear ok -7 neons and 2 otocinclus

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## blureddy

Hi Lxj, would you mind telling us what filtration are you using? 

or any pictures to tell a better story?

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## Lxj

Hi there I have an eheim pick up 60 filter. 
I was advised this would be good for my 40 litre tank by an aquarium shop??

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## blureddy

> Hi there I have an eheim pick up 60 filter. 
> I was advised this would be good for my 40 litre tank by an aquarium shop??


Hmm, is there any air pump or just the eheim pick up filter?

Technically, all the beneficial bacteria has died off due to the medication.

So during this medication period, do not feed the fishes.

Reason being that when u feed the fishes, they produces ammonia, and there is no bacteria to consume the ammonia and ammonia is toxic to the fishes.

ammonia is usually the main reason why fishes fall sick.

My only suspect is that initially there wasn't enough oxygen in the water that causes the slow grow of bacteria. Also what is the temperature like?

Regards

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi there I have an eheim pick up 60 filter. 
> I was advised this would be good for my 40 litre tank by an aquarium shop??


The eheim pick up 60 filter is an okay internal filter... the filter media volume is relatively small though, so it can't hold much bio-media house beneficial bacteria, and it takes up space inside the tank.

Maybe consider upgrading to a larger hang-on filter or canister filter which can hold more bio-media, that will make a big difference in developing and maintaining a much more stable cycle.

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## Lxj

I did wonder if the medication would kill of the good bacteria. 

The enhiem is the only filter I have it does blow out bubbles at the top of the surface. I did have another filter in too which was for a smaller tank 19l , this blew bubbles at the surface too, but I removed it as I guessed the enhiem filter would be ok . 
Temperature of tank 25.5

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## Lxj

Still Treating for white spot , treatment in two stages , 4 days apart, I do a big water change too when doing 2nd treatment . I take out 2litres and then put in 2litres . I put in 40l 0f fresh water but gradually 2 litres at a time, and take out roughly 2 litres . Just going to treat again for white spot and I have done another water change .

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## blureddy

Medication will definitely kill most of the beneficial bacteria that does the nitrification process.
If it blew out bubbles then it should be fine in terms of oxygen concentration.
Temperature is good.
Weird for not able to complete basic tank cycle in 30 days.

Anyway, during this medication stages, you do not want to further stress your fishes from ammonia toxicity, so stop feeding if possible. or else keep feeding at lowest.

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## Lxj

Update - I've been treating for white spot for 12 days now. AND I can see what looks like sugar or water bubbles on the bettas front fins (his cyst seems to have healed ok and seems ok apart from these grains on him ) eating ok swimming around alot maybe more than usual. 

All my good bacterial in tank is probably well depleted , not wanting to put any more chemical treatments in till tank recovers . Is this a good idea???

Any ideas help, just not got smoothly from the start , thanks

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## Urban Aquaria

Looks like the medication seems to be working, just have to carry on the full treatment period to make sure all the infections are cured and parasites are gone 

The beneficial bacteria might have taken a beating from the effects of the medications, but they will naturally re-establish and grow back again, so it just takes time.

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## Lxj

I've found a water snail in my tank , must have hitched a ride on a plant. Should I keep it???

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## Urban Aquaria

> I've found a water snail in my tank , must have hitched a ride on a plant. Should I keep it???


If you don't mind the sight of pond snails in your tank then just keep it.

Though if you are not keen on facing the possibility of snail overpopulation/infestation, then better quickly remove it.  :Grin:

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## Lxj

Update - got up this morning and during the night my betta has made a bubble nest :-) so wish I had seen him do it.

Surely this is a sign he is happy?

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## Urban Aquaria

That can be a good sign, at least its healthy and comfortable enough to do what male bettas do.  :Very Happy:

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## Lxj

I'm going to put another treatment of white spot in today as I can still see something on his fins which are right next to his head. Looks like bubbles/whitish in colour. 

This is now the longest without any deaths in the tank. Catfish seem ok and so do the neons.

But am sure all good bacteria gone, no nitrite showing or nitrate , changing water roughly every 4 days at moment, as white spot needs to be put in 4 day apart. So I change water then too .

Hopefully after this last treatment of white spot the bacteria will recover and my fish too, it's been 16 days of treating the tank .

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## Lxj

My eheim pick up 60 has stopped blowing bubbles across the surface of the tank . Tried cleaning it, still not blowing bubbles. Do I really need the bubbles ? It's blowing out water instead of bubbles.

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## Urban Aquaria

> My eheim pick up 60 has stopped blowing bubbles across the surface of the tank . Tried cleaning it, still not blowing bubbles. Do I really need the bubbles ? It's blowing out water instead of bubbles.


Most likely the filter sponge and the filter compartments have no more excess pockets of air, so no more bubbles.

As long as the filter is creating ample movement at the water surface, that will encourage gas exchange and oxygenation. If you want more surface movement, just lift up the filter outflow to or above the water surface and let it churn the water.

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## Lxj

Thank you thank you, it's blowing bubbles again, I squeezed the filter sponge in some tank water and it's working like new.

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## Lxj

One of my otocinclus's is swimming really fast side to side along the front of the tank.the other otocinclus is just sitting on a leaf. He has done this before when I do a water change . 

I've done a small water change 10l .
Tank size 40l

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## Lxj

Hi there could you recommend one? Thanks

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## Lxj

One of my otocinclus's now has a big white spot on his head????? 
The tank has been treated for white spot, see previous threads. 
He seems ok soo far, I have put in a bacterial treatment as I have not long finnished doing at least triple dose of white spot - treatment white spot for 3-4 weeks, so surely it can't be white spot???

Any help advice greatly appreciated . Thanks in advance

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## Urban Aquaria

It has to be tiny white spots to be ich parasite... since its a big white spot or patch, it seems like your oto probably got a case of bacterial or fungal infection instead (maybe due to an injury after colliding with a sharp edge). Check that your water parameters haven't become toxic, as that can cause infections to flare up too. Try to keep the tank environment clean and stable (which can help it recover and heal).

Otos do tend to be sensitive to regular medications, so any anti-bacterial/fungal treatments that you dose should be done at smaller dosages and increased progressively over time.

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## Lxj

Thanks sooo much for your speedy reply, I have tested the water and all levels are good. I think my tank was just recovering from treating with white spot, as ammonia and nitrite levels were staying low.

I'll Continue with the bacterial treatment , and if that doesn't shift the white patch I'll try a fungus treatment .

Just as I thought all was getting better!!

Many thanks for taking the time to help me and my fishes

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## Dscheng

> It has to be tiny white spots to be ich parasite... since its a big white spot or patch, it seems like your oto probably got a case of bacterial or fungal infection instead (maybe due to an injury after colliding with a sharp edge). Check that your water parameters haven't become toxic, as that can cause infections to flare up too. Try to keep the tank environment clean and stable (which can help it recover and heal).
> 
> Otos do tend to be sensitive to regular medications, so any anti-bacterial/fungal treatments that you dose should be done at smaller dosages and increased progressively over time.


 UA, which brand you will recommend for this Ich parasite? How is the method apply? isolate out the affected fish and put into another tank?

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## Urban Aquaria

> UA, which brand you will recommend for this Ich parasite? How is the method apply? isolate out the affected fish and put into another tank?


For my case, i just use Seachem Paraguard and dose it every day at recommended dosage until the white spots disappear, and then continue dosing it for another 1 more week to kill any remaining free-swimming parasites (aka ich tomites).

If you see any fishes in your main tank with white spot, consider the entire tank as infected as by then there will be thousands of free-swimming tomites already in the water column and substrate anyways (and very likely the other fishes are also starting to get infected too). Just leave the infected fishes in the main tank and treat the entire tank.

Thats one of the reasons why its best to quarantine all new fishes in a separate tank for 1-2 weeks for observation before introducing them to your main tank, that way if the white spots do pop up the infection is contained, so you only need to treat the quarantine tank, save the need to treat your entire main tank and all its inhabitants.

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## Dscheng

> For my case, i just use Seachem Paraguard and dose it every day at recommended dosage until the white spots disappear, and then continue dosing it for another 1 more week to kill any remaining free-swimming parasites (aka ich tomites).
> 
> If you see any fishes in your main tank with white spot, consider the entire tank as infected as by then there will be thousands of free-swimming tomites already in the water column and substrate anyways (and very likely the other fishes are also starting to get infected too). Just leave the infected fishes in the main tank and treat the entire tank.
> 
> Thats one of the reasons why its best to quarantine all new fishes in a separate tank for 1-2 weeks for observation before introducing them to your main tank, that way if the white spots do pop up the infection is contained, so you only need to treat the quarantine tank, save the need to treat your entire main tank and all its inhabitants.


As usual, UA is very helpful and knowledgeable ! THanks for your advice. Recently, i saw 3 of my chocolate gourami having a white spot on their body and i suspect it spread to my RAM too.

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## Urban Aquaria

> As usual, UA is very helpful and knowledgeable ! THanks for your advice. Recently, i saw 3 of my chocolate gourami having a white spot on their body and i suspect it spread to my RAM too.


Yeah, best to start treatment as soon as possible, it will take a while to completely treat it.

Btw, did you recently add any new fishes which may have introduced the parasites? Or did it just show up in your existing fishes all of a sudden?

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## Lxj

Ahhh thanks so much .i have just purchased some seachem paraguard, it looks GOOD stuff which treats a variety of ailments. ha ha hopefully this well do the trick. Thanks again

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## Lxj

Looks like a neon has it too on his nose :-(

Waiting for the new medicine, seachem proguard to be delivered , ahhh can't come soon enough.

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## Dscheng

Yes i added 3 SAE and 3 otos. Now my RAM also have this white spot. But they are behaving normal.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Yes i added 3 SAE and 3 otos. Now my RAM also have this white spot. But they are behaving normal.


Yeah, sometimes certain fishes may not show the white spot symptoms but are carriers of the parasites in their gills... sometimes free-swimming tomites might even just accidentally get transferred over in the LFS bag water too. Either way just have to do treatment to solve it.

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## Dscheng

> Yeah, sometimes certain fishes may not show the white spot symptoms but are carriers of the parasites in their gills... sometimes free-swimming tomites might even just accidentally get transferred over in the LFS bag water too. Either way just have to do treatment to solve it.


Went to seaview during the weekend and Paraguard is out of stock !!

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## Lxj

Update: still waiting on seachem proguard . So I tried waterlife white spot and fungus treatment . Within a couple of hours the betta fish had orange stuff coming out of his gills I think? He wasn't resting in his usual spot. He Seems a bit better now, 4 days on . Was this the white spot STILL hiding in his gills??? So weird he seemed alright till I put the treatment in, but obviously that orange stuff was meant to come out and the treatment helped???

The catfish has died in day 4 of the treatment :-(

Still to treat again on Thursday.

No new fish have been added. I had previously WELL treated the tank with interpet white spot, and interpet bacterial treatment .

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## Urban Aquaria

The ich parasite is actually invisible to our eyes, the white spot is the outer skin reaction to the ich parasite by the fish's immune system which encase it in a white casing.

The orange stuff coming out of the betta gills could be infected fungus/slime/discharge (ie. pus) from reaction with the medications, not sure exactly though. I guess you'll just have to keep an eye on its condition and see if it improves over the next few days.

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## tetrakid

Fish with disease is really 'very headache'. Recently my goldfish had two sores on the tail. I held it and dabbed the sores with concentrated salt solution on a cottonwool-wrapped stick. Luckily for me the sores healed after one repeat treatment. If that did not work, I will not know what to do.

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## Dscheng

This morning i saw my chocolate gourami and other infected fishes. It seem like the white spot is fading away without any medication !

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## tetrakid

> This morning i saw my chocolate gourami and other infected fishes. It seem like the white spot is fading away without any medication !


That means your tank water is good and is helpful for recovery.  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

Note that if you see the fishes gradually have no more white spots without treatment, it could mean that white spots fell off the fishes and now developing as eggs stage in the substrate, after a few days they will hatch into thousands of free swimming form and could re-infect the fishes again. Its a repeating cycle. Do read up on the life-cycle of the ich parasites to get a better idea of their reproduction process.

Its possible that the fishes are not stressed anymore and can improve their immune system to a level which can ward off the newly hatched batch of parasites so the effects may not as noticeable, but if the tank was untreated the parasites can still be present in small numbers hidden inside the fishes gills. It could flare up again anytime when the fishes undergo new stress or if their immune system are somehow reduced.

Hence do still try to get white spot treatment to kill off all residual ich parasites once and for all, otherwise they will still be lurking amongst the fishes and pop up again when new fishes are introduced (thats how some people get parasite-free fishes from LFS then wonder why those same fishes still get white spot, and it becomes a persistent problem, because its actually from their existing fishes which were not treated and still infected).

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## Dscheng

Wa. After listening to your advice. I brought the paraguard. Just doze 5ml and hopefully it can cure soon.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Wa. After listening to your advice. I brought the paraguard. Just doze 5ml and hopefully it can cure soon.


Just go through the daily dosage regimen... once all the white spots are gone, continue dosing for at least another 1 week more to complete the treatment.

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## Lxj

Proguard has arrived, going to do a big water change first .

I'll clean the gravel a little too. 

Thanks for for all the help

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## Dscheng

I lose one chocolate gourami the head and body full of white spot. Even with paraguard also can't save it.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I lose one chocolate gourami the head and body full of white spot. Even with paraguard also can't save it.


Yeah, those parasites that are still residing inside the infected fishes are less affected by the medication, so it all depends on the immune system and health of the individual fish. Those weaker ones that encounter stronger outbreaks tend to have much lower chance of survival and are often beyond saving.

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## Dscheng

After a few day of dosing paraguard, most of my fishes white spot seem like fading off. But i notice that my tank PH has dropped from PH6.0 ~PH5.0??

Will paraguard buffer the PH??

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## tetrakid

> After a few day of dosing paraguard, most of my fishes white spot seem like fading off. But i notice that my tank PH has dropped from PH6.0 ~PH5.0??
> 
> Will paraguard buffer the PH??


Wa, that may not be good. If the water becomes more acidic, the snails in your tank, if any, will suffer, as their shells will be eaten away fast. One thing about using chemicals is many are good but there are also side effects.

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## Urban Aquaria

> After a few day of dosing paraguard, most of my fishes white spot seem like fading off. But i notice that my tank PH has dropped from PH6.0 ~PH5.0??
> 
> Will paraguard buffer the PH??


So far i haven't encountered Paraguard affecting the pH in my tanks. Maybe it could be other causes. 

There might also be a possibility the treatment is killing alot of the parasites in the tank so the mass critter die out could be generating extra acidifying effect from the cycle.

I guess you'll just have to monitor the livestock and maybe do additional water changes in case there are spikes in parameters.

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## Dscheng

Hmm, UA thanks for the advice. Yes, weekly i will do water change. So far the fishes are doing well. Still training my discus to take pellet food.
They only take frozen bloodworm.

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## Lxj

I just thought I saw my neon eat a white worm like thing!!!!

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## Urban Aquaria

> I just thought I saw my neon eat a white worm like thing!!!!


Yup, small fishes like tetras do usually snack on any worms or critters they happen to find in the tank... just depends on whether they are hungry enough to actively hunt though.

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## Lxj

Where has the white worm thing come from??

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## Urban Aquaria

> Where has the white worm thing come from??


They can hitchhike in with plants, wood or rocks... anything that you introduced into the tank.

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## Lxj

How often should I be changing water? My tank seems to go a couple of weeks at the moment, ammonia starts getting a bit higher at week 2 , no nitrite or nitrate . 

Still treating tank, as neons don't look to good, they are swimming around and eating behaving normal. They have white growth on their backs (they don't look shiny scales) and one has three growths looks like 3 small white balls on his mouth(1 ball became 3 balls). One does have bits on his fins too. Oh and there are only 6 now, no idea where number 7 has gone. The only place I have not looked is inside the filter, can't imagine it being in there though.

i am using waterlife white spot and fungus treatment again,and I have tried paraguard too . 

They seem ok but obviously do not look good.

Tank now has 1 octocinculus 6 neons and 1 beta

I got a floating log for my beta, he loves it, Best Buy ever, even makes bubble nests in it ,when the filter flow slows down blowing bubbles.

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## Urban Aquaria

Ammonia levels appearing in the tank indicates the tank may actually not be cycled yet (no matter how much time has passed) or the tank's beneficial bacteria colonies somehow got affected by something and it lapsed back into another re-cycling process.

That may explain the fishes still getting sick and getting infections (usually an indicator of constant poor water conditions). Ideally none of those fishes should still be showing those signs of illness. In tank conditions that are good, the fishes themselves will be able to recover very quickly and ward off further infections.

The best action to do now would be to reduce feeding, clean the tank/filters, do more frequent water changes (perhaps 20%-30% every 2-3 days), until the fishes health situation improve and the ammonia and nitrite consistently stay at zero, with only nitrate showing readings.

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## Lxj

It must be the waterlife treatment killing of the bacteria. 

i have been leaving tank for 2 Weeks and then changing out 24l .thats when ammonia levels are present. But not high levels. But no nitrate or nitrite . I haven't touched the filter in ages , last time was when I asked why the filter wasn't blowing bubbles - on this forum. I don't touch filter , only if it were to stop blowing bubbles and I would clean it in tank with water.

i test the water every 2 or 3 days. Should I change water more often, even if no ammonia present? 

should I be cleaning filter more often? It's like big sponge the filter, best way to describe it.

Should I continue treating fish?

Appreciate all your advice , thanks

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## Urban Aquaria

It'll still be a good idea to clean the filter, at least so that it avoids the build up of waste inside the sponge.

If there is no detectable ammonia, then its not necessary to do as many water changes, just a moderate 20%-30% water change a week should be sufficient.

Since the fishes are still exhibiting infections, its better to continue treating them with medications, but perhaps just use Paraguard only for a few days and see if it helps. It might allow your beneficial bacteria population to recover and grow again.

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## Lxj

Just saw my neon tetra spawning eggs. She looks ok but the males are still not looking good. Can't believe what I saw - rubbing up against each other tails flapping and all these eggs. They must be ok ish even tho they still don't look good.

One neon was looking rather fat :-)

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## Lxj

Still having problems with my neons . Three of them have white growths on their mouths. Little White lumps which are getting bigger one neons mouth will be almost swamped by them will have problems being able to feed due to the white lumps. Ive Been using Paraguard but it doesn't seem to have stopped the growths.

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