# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Invertebrates >  Denizens of Nav's shrimp tank

## Navanod

Hi Bro's and Sis's,

Just took some pictures of the critters in the tank, thought I'll share it here

Male Painted Fire Red
 
Foothills


Queen of the PFR



Yamato


CRS PFR face off


CRS Feeding


CRS on fissiden

----------


## eviltrain

Woot. Nice camera. Good job Bro.

----------


## rascal

hi, nice shrimps man! why not you take a picture of your whole tank :Smile:

----------


## Navanod

> hi, nice shrimps man! why not you take a picture of your whole tank



I already did  :Very Happy: ...but its in another part of the forum

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...628#post556628

----------


## Navanod

Heres a few more pictures I just uploaded, not as clear I'm afraid

Another one of the painted fire red females...sorry, abit overexposed shot, but I want to bring out the color of the PFR under bright lights


I would consider this a normal fire red


Heh heh, my first berried CRS, not sure if its an SSS or just SS

----------


## rascal

yeah!! nice set up.. if your Crystal Red Shrimps are breeding, i supposed they are doing well :Smile:  make a new set up for them hahahha :Smile:

----------


## Navanod

Something interesting...this guy's been in the tank for about a month.

----------


## Gexrian

Erm... your Ph can support the new interesting shrimp?

----------


## Navanod

> Erm... your Ph can support the new interesting shrimp?


Thats the interesting part.
If he's still around by end Oct, that'll be really interesting...

----------


## NingNing

> Heres a few more pictures I just uploaded, not as clear I'm afraid
> 
> Another one of the painted fire red females...sorry, abit overexposed shot, but I want to bring out the color of the PFR under bright lights
> 
> 
> Heh heh, my first berried CRS, not sure if its an SSS or just SS


Bro, what plant are those in the picture? Where you get that? looks like grass.. been wanting to get those.

----------


## eviltrain

That's is his Marimo lawn on mesh. Haha

----------


## Navanod

Some recent shots

The adults feeding


The young children feeding


Painted Red


Newly adopted Painted Red


Another Newly adopted Painted Red. The amount of spotting is abit excessive, but its still very solid


Zoom out tank shots



Removed the marimo lawn as some BBA was hiding in it and cannot be killed with excel. Once the tank is clear of BBA (almost!), I'll replace with a new lawn  :Very Happy:

----------


## rascal

bro where you bought your painted fire red?? are you selling?? love those that like dark purple colour :Smile:

----------


## Navanod

> bro where you bought your painted fire red?? are you selling?? love those that like dark purple colour


Got mine from Midori, but they're no longer bringing in.
Sorry, I'm only selling culls as I still cannot breed any that are as nice as the parent.
Yes, the real painted are really much darker. I'm trying out feeding a wider range of diet to see if the color improves...

----------


## dannyfish

> Something interesting...this guy's been in the tank for about a month.



Hi 

May I know the name of the plant called?? Where did u bought it?

----------


## Navanod

> Hi 
> 
> May I know the name of the plant called?? Where did u bought it?


 
Hi,

Those are US fissidens. You can find it at the forum's market place, normally sold by mesh. I got mine from a few different bros here.
But I bought too many meshes, now after they all fully grown, no space. I probably should post at marketplace again too  :Roll Eyes:

----------


## Blaze88

As from the sales thread (sorry) 
Tank spec pls ~~ wondering how did you kept 3 kinds of shrimps which has different environment requirement in the same tank =)

----------


## Navanod

> As from the sales thread (sorry) 
> Tank spec pls ~~ wondering how did you kept 3 kinds of shrimps which has different environment requirement in the same tank =)


Hi bro,

No worries, I take it you meant the water parameters right?

pH = 6.1-6.8 depending on CO2 injection and lighting hours
Temp = 24.5-25.5
Ammonia/Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 10-20ppm from fertilizers
KH = 4
GH = 8-10

Actually, the Fire reds are cherry shrimps and quite forgiving about the conditions so they're fine to be kept at CRS conditions.
However, the sulawesi shrimp is definitely not in its native conditions and I'm not entirely comfortable that I got this shrimp on an impulse just to test out a theory. But it seemed to be somewhat correct after almost 3 months...

But now, I'm not sure what to make of it...should I try to breed them by getting more? Maybe I'll observe awhile more

----------


## v200

Hi dude. as per the sales thread, how much did you pay for the cardinal shrimp? And where did you buy it? :Grin:

----------


## Navanod

> Hi dude. as per the sales thread, how much did you pay for the cardinal shrimp? And where did you buy it?


Its $6 and you can find it at C328 or That Aquarium. Do some research first bro, its very hard to keep this shrimps if you don't have the right setup

----------


## Rooster

To be honest, I'm more surprised about the temp the cardinal is kept in rather than the pH - most cardinals do well at a higher temp (27 degrees celsius). Though most breeding is done at pH 7 I think - but I think surviving shouldn't be that big a problem right? Besides, your gH seems perfect for shrimps in general. Anyhow, what's the "theory" you were referring to - may I enquire?

----------


## Navanod

Haha, yes, I'm keeping this tropical shrimp in temperate waters.
According to some reports I read after I decided to research this shrimp, the native conditions are:

pH = 7.6-8+
GH = 2?
KH = 1?

But unlike other alkaline water fishes (eg, african), these shrimps are extremely fragile and sensitive to ammonia.
My theory was that high pH makes ammonia more toxic, as they remain in the toxic state NH3 that can back-diffuse through gills. In acidic waters, some ammonia pick up a free H+ ion to form ammonium NH4+ which is rendered effectively harmless as it cannot cross the gill anymore.
So rather than try to provide a high pH and end up killing these shrimps when there's a minor ammonia spike (many reported losing shrimps although they were kept in coral sand high pH tanks), why not try keeping them in very clean acidic tanks? I was worried about the GH more than anything else actually, since people who lost shrimps in coral sand tanks suspected the high GH was to blame. But since these are crustaceans, I don't understand how moderate GH could hurt them.

Now I'm guessing that their native conditions were not exactly ideal for them. I have a crazy theory that these are marine shrimps that got trapped inland when sulawesi's lakes were cut off from the sea. Over time, rain diluted the saltwater and they slowly evolved to tolerate fresh water, low GH and the high pH. Whether they need it though, is what I'm trying to test.

----------


## v200

> Its $6 and you can find it at C328 or That Aquarium. Do some research first bro, its very hard to keep this shrimps if you don't have the right setup


I know. Learnt that the hard way. Was torn between crs and cardinal. Ph was 7. Temperature was 27-29.Tried both in the same tank. Was so upset when the 2 cardinal died.
Was pretty sad as i quite liked the cardinal shrimp. Might want to venture into them again. But need to give up crs. To really give them the environment they deserve. :Crying:

----------


## Dean

> Thats the interesting part.
> If he's still around by end Oct, that'll be really interesting...


I'm really impress on how this cardinal shrimp can still survive in the tank with different native. Now that it's coming closer to end of October, is it still living?  :Think: 

Your tank is one of the reason why I got back my interest in shrimps. But my fire red still can't beat your painted fire red.  :Laughing:

----------


## Navanod

> I know. Learnt that the hard way. Was torn between crs and cardinal. Ph was 7. Temperature was 27-29.Tried both in the same tank. Was so upset when the 2 cardinal died.
> Was pretty sad as i quite liked the cardinal shrimp. Might want to venture into them again. But need to give up crs. To really give them the environment they deserve.


Oh? May I know if you had also measured other water parameters?




> I'm really impress on how this cardinal shrimp can still survive in the tank with different native. Now that it's coming closer to end of October, is it still living? 
> 
> Your tank is one of the reason why I got back my interest in shrimps. But my fire red still can't beat your painted fire red.


Its 1st Nov...and I just saw the shrimp last night cleaning one of the rocks so its been in there for 3 months! Hahaha!
Oh? I'm flattered but I'm sure your shrimp poison was already deep. Looking at pictures of tanks in this forum was just the catalyst  :Smile: 

I think there's some improvement in my F1 generation painted fire reds after the GH went up to 8-10. Previously I had been using this rotten API GH kit and had been keeping them at GH 5 only mistakenly. Perhaps you can try checking your GH?

Hmmm...I'm not doing this very scientifically. My lecturer will probably suffer a fit if she knew I was calling this an experiment and that I'm using only 1 sample!

----------


## bettafantastic

Good photography skills!!
2nd picture looks like the shrimps are out of water!!

----------


## calvin18

I love the last shot..solid white

----------


## Navanod

Thanks for the kind words. Still learning how to take better macro shots of the tank though...its really hard.

Some updates:

1. Decided to put in more sulawesi shrimps to see if they breed. But sadly, could only find 3 at C328 last night...not sure if the 4 I have now are all same sex or mixed...probably have to increase the population if I wanna have a decent chance of breeding

2. Found a golden/white CRS baby while changing water!! I don't have any golden shrimps so its probably from 2 CRS with recessive golden genes mating. I don't really like golden shrimps but I like the red eyes, haha!



For a sense of how tiny it is, look at the Big Mama PFR on the right  :Very Happy: 


3. Found many tiny CRS hiding, I think they're starting to spawn en mass  :Smile: 

4. Managed to find another painted fire red Mama from a friend! Now only left 1 last friend who have 2 "survivors" to psycho, heh heh heh *rubs palms*

5. Sadly, I think my stud PFR male died...didn't see him for days. Now have to hold contest to find the next Big Daddy

----------


## blackBRUSHalgae

wow love your setup and your achievement! Did you start your HC wet or dry? how about fert dosing? Does it affect your shrimps? I trying to start CRS in my planted tank too. Currently cherry are breeding in there. Just bought 10 tigers to test it out and later gonna try some A grades CRS. Hope your Sulawesi shrimps will breed too!!! keep us updated!!!

----------


## Navanod

> wow love your setup and your achievement! Did you start your HC wet or dry? how about fert dosing? Does it affect your shrimps? I trying to start CRS in my planted tank too. Currently cherry are breeding in there. Just bought 10 tigers to test it out and later gonna try some A grades CRS. Hope your Sulawesi shrimps will breed too!!! keep us updated!!!


Thanks bro. Its really taking all my spare time to work on...with alot of help from wife. She found culling poorer colored fire red somewhat fun and now is expert at catching them!

I wanted to do dry start for the HC but found that due to the high slope, its quite tricky, so in the end, did planting and just flood.
Ferts I'm doing EI dosing with excel but carefully controlled to make sure the nitrate does not exceed 20ppm. Shrimps didn't seemed to care.

I hope so too...had been reading up on Sulawesi's lakes and I'm thinking that the pH is not the only parameter that's important. Its the high oxygen content, low nitrate/waste and low bioload as well.

----------


## Wjustin

Hi bro nice tank you have there and wow on your FR lol.
Erm i have kept both species cardinal and CRS together and cardinals survived for 3 months pregnent But no offspring=( I hope you can do what i didnt accomplished haha good luck!

----------


## Navanod

> Hi bro nice tank you have there and wow on your FR lol.
> Erm i have kept both species cardinal and CRS together and cardinals survived for 3 months pregnent But no offspring=( I hope you can do what i didnt accomplished haha good luck!


Thanks bro. I can't say the FR's are doing well as I simply cannot get them to produce offsprings as red as the original that were purchased. Now I know why painted fire reds were so rare and (relatively) expensive...
Oh? You had also attempted? Care to share the water parameters of that tank?

----------


## Wjustin

> Thanks bro. I can't say the FR's are doing well as I simply cannot get them to produce offsprings as red as the original that were purchased. Now I know why painted fire reds were so rare and (relatively) expensive...
> Oh? You had also attempted? Care to share the water parameters of that tank?


That was quite some time ago ph around 6.8 gh was 8 kh 2 
Your FR will have some random offsprings(brown or off color) which you need to separate 
From what i see normally the real red ones are my females ><

----------


## Navanod

> That was quite some time ago ph around 6.8 gh was 8 kh 2 
> Your FR will have some random offsprings(brown or off color) which you need to separate 
> From what i see normally the real red ones are my females ><


That's pretty close to what I have bro...hmmm, did those cardinals in your tank die after 3 months?

Actually, the PFR's offsprings are considerably more stable than the FRs I had previously. There's no brown, transparent or very very off colored ones...only poor quality ones are those with an orange pinkish color or with minor "cracks" in the redness of their shells.
Its only if I leave these poorer ones to breed with each other that the really transparent or very very off colored ones starts showing up, so now have to cull very aggressively after learning my lesson.

There is 1 very red male in the tank (I just found him again inside the cull tank! Thank goodness he wasn't dead like I thought!) but yes, females are certainly redder which is the norm for Neocardina.
That's why its such a pain to cull when they're young...I had to be able to tell if it was male or female before I can assess if the color was good or bad!
A color that's considered very good for a male would be terrible in a female...and since good males are so precious, I must be sure that a suspected good colored male is actually a female before I can cull it.

I also have to keep peeping in the cull tank as I do find good males that were culled by accident, including my main male stud breeder!

----------


## Wjustin

> That's pretty close to what I have bro...hmmm, did those cardinals in your tank die after 3 months?
> 
> Actually, the PFR's offsprings are considerably more stable than the FRs I had previously. There's no brown, transparent or very very off colored ones...only poor quality ones are those with an orange pinkish color or with minor "cracks" in the redness of their shells.
> Its only if I leave these poorer ones to breed with each other that the really transparent or very very off colored ones starts showing up, so now have to cull very aggressively after learning my lesson.
> 
> There is 1 very red male in the tank (I just found him again inside the cull tank! Thank goodness he wasn't dead like I thought!) but yes, females are certainly redder which is the norm for Neocardina.
> That's why its such a pain to cull when they're young...I had to be able to tell if it was male or female before I can assess if the color was good or bad!
> A color that's considered very good for a male would be terrible in a female...and since good males are so precious, I must be sure that a suspected good colored male is actually a female before I can cull it.
> 
> I also have to keep peeping in the cull tank as I do find good males that were culled by accident, including my main male stud breeder!


Yeah my cardinals slowly said bye to me lol.
From what i believe if your source is from the sulawasi lake/river directly chances of them adapting is close to 0 otherwise bred in your own country then i believe there might be a chance to do so. For me mine was direct source.

Thats good news to my knowledge , super red males are infertile correct me if i am wrong =)

----------


## Navanod

> Yeah my cardinals slowly said bye to me lol.
> From what i believe if your source is from the sulawasi lake/river directly chances of them adapting is close to 0 otherwise bred in your own country then i believe there might be a chance to do so. For me mine was direct source.
> 
> Thats good news to my knowledge , super red males are infertile correct me if i am wrong =)


My source is C328...I heard they get their sulawesi from some local breeder in pasir ris?

I too read that super red males are possibly infertile according to the theory that the redness is related to the female shrimp hormones. So either the not so colorful young males had been having fun before legal age (I'm only culling those that are 1cm and above) or that colorful 2cm male is enjoying himself as the only large adult male in the tank for the last few months. The females are still getting berried even before all their previous eggs hatched. I find molted shells with a few eggs still attached very often!

----------


## Wjustin

> My source is C328...I heard they get their sulawesi from some local breeder in pasir ris?
> 
> I too read that super red males are possibly infertile according to the theory that the redness is related to the female shrimp hormones. So either the not so colorful young males had been having fun before legal age (I'm only culling those that are 1cm and above) or that colorful 2cm male is enjoying himself as the only large adult male in the tank for the last few months. The females are still getting berried even before all their previous eggs hatched. I find molted shells with a few eggs still attached very often!


I think i know this person haha

haha booming offsprings are great there so in a whiles time i think you will need more tanks? XD

----------


## Navanod

> I think i know this person haha
> 
> haha booming offsprings are great there so in a whiles time i think you will need more tanks? XD


Extra tank? Cannot lah, no time and not enough power plugs to make another for now. I'm happy with one.

Speaking of that male breeder, here's some shots I just took:

Obvious cracks under the body, but still a very good specimen compared to other males so far


Under flash, can see he's not very solid


Under good lightings, can see the head carapace is actually still very solid


Next to one of the Female


Comparing the shade of the redness vs the orange tinted shade of another


Comparing the 2 again, side by side

----------


## Navanod

Oh, and here a Mosura grade CRS baby!! Yipee~!!



Hope the colors solidify and grow

----------


## jowy

> Oh, and here a Mosura grade CRS baby!! Yipee~!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope the colors solidify and grow


Bro...
Very nice mosura baby =)

----------


## Navanod

Some recent shots of a big mosura

----------


## sunnydaze

Hi Navanod, is that ADA soil you are using?

----------


## Kenng

Nice but the white seems to be fading.
BTW what is the blue print fish in the front?

----------


## Navanod

> Hi Navanod, is that ADA soil you are using?


Yes, Amazonia II




> Nice but the white seems to be fading.
> BTW what is the blue print fish in the front?


Very sharp eyes. This guy has the best patterns in my tank but very golden tint and slightly faded colors. Feeding good stuff now in the hope that it'll improve, although I think its genetic and cannot be helped.

Blue print fish? Hahaha!! You mean this:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...860#post565860

----------


## alvinchan80

Bro Nav, how come I dont see the fine powder soil on your substrate? Just realized mine is very very fine like powder...
Guess I have to wash my filter once when cycle done..

Oh ya, my shrimps are just like yours.. Color fade as they grow older.. Haix.. What good stuff u feeding? :P

----------


## redmap

The adults feeding


Painted Red


Zoom out tank shots



hi bro, i like your tank setup nice especially the rocks and can see clearly where the shripms.where u bought the marimo lawn?what the plants name at the far corner.i seem got this plant in my tank but grow very slow and not so good like yours.can ask what soil you use

----------


## redmap

sorry misout above readings. but find your amazonia II soil very solid..i bought twice from lfs turned out fine powder very fast.that why put another layer of soil.

----------


## Navanod

> Bro Nav, how come I dont see the fine powder soil on your substrate? Just realized mine is very very fine like powder...
> Guess I have to wash my filter once when cycle done..
> 
> Oh ya, my shrimps are just like yours.. Color fade as they grow older.. Haix.. What good stuff u feeding? :P


The fine powder is only on the front glass, so that the soil part in front looks dark and even. The rest are used in spots where I wanted to top up but not everything...I think the ADA soil looks more natural as a top soil so I'm not going all out to cover with powder.

Good stuff? Secret...hehehe, but I think the key is variety. Cannot expect them to eat only one type of food and expect a balanced diet right?




> hi bro, i like your tank setup nice especially the rocks and can see clearly where the shripms.where u bought the marimo lawn?what the plants name at the far corner.i seem got this plant in my tank but grow very slow and not so good like yours.can ask what soil you use


Thank you. The marimo balls can be found at most LFS. The lawn is DIY using mesh and fishing lines.
Which plant? I have hornwort, HC, US Fissiden and Zipper moss in the tank. Soil is ADA Amazonia II. Check out my project log for more info.

----------


## alvinchan80

haha.. so secretive.. must be some secret home-made recipe right? hahahaha...

understand.. Anyway, I have added mine to be fully covered top soil with powder soil... but i foresee once i try to dig in or plant something, the big granula soil will be dug out..

----------


## redmap

Which plant? I have hornwort, HC, US Fissiden and Zipper moss in the tank. Soil is ADA Amazonia II. Check out my project log for more info.[/QUOTE]

bro,your HC looks grows well from pics.mine still far from yours.do you put fert?will it affect shrimps?me only co2.

----------


## Navanod

> haha.. so secretive.. must be some secret home-made recipe right? hahahaha...
> 
> understand.. Anyway, I have added mine to be fully covered top soil with powder soil... but i foresee once i try to dig in or plant something, the big granula soil will be dug out..


No lah...food all bought from LFS. I just wanna be sure if they work before posting...otherwise you go and buy waste money




> bro,your HC looks grows well from pics.mine still far from yours.do you put fert?will it affect shrimps?me only co2.


Yes, I'm dosing ferts. Nope, the shrimps don't care as long as nitrate is not too high.
But Bro, for plants, can discuss at the plant section?
This section more for shrimps, snails and other livestocks. Thanks  :Smile:

----------


## Navanod

One of the painted fire reds had turned very very dark...I don't know why.
I hope its not a sign that its going to expire soon from old age




Here's one of the normal fire reds taken with the same camera settings for comparison

----------


## alvinchan80

> One of the painted fire reds had turned very very dark...I don't know why.
> I hope its not a sign that its going to expire soon from old age
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one of the normal fire reds taken with the same camera settings for comparison


Wah!!! OMFG!!! So solid red!!!  :Surprised: 
Very beautiful color... No wonder you so excited about it... Lol...

Compare the CRS to the fire red... Lol... (CRS happened to be passing by huh?)

----------


## avex30

Hi bro nice tank same like u i got 2 cardinal on impulse currently they are in my 1ft tank with sakura, low grade bee, mix tiger, 1 golden eye blue tiger, snowball,neon green, yellow. 

My Ph is about 7.4
GH- unknown
KH- unknown
Temp range is 24-26.5

The 1st time i introduce them in after acclimatization. 1 of them nearly cannot make it I kept seeing swin upwards than just sink down and lay there for like few sec lifeless i thought gone case $6 down the drain. Decided to leave them alone however the next day i saw them start picking on the woods and moss. almost 3 weeks since i have them.

----------


## Navanod

> Hi bro nice tank same like u i got 2 cardinal on impulse currently they are in my 1ft tank with sakura, low grade bee, mix tiger, 1 golden eye blue tiger, snowball,neon green, yellow. 
> 
> My Ph is about 7.4
> GH- unknown
> KH- unknown
> Temp range is 24-26.5
> 
> The 1st time i introduce them in after acclimatization. 1 of them nearly cannot make it I kept seeing swin upwards than just sink down and lay there for like few sec lifeless i thought gone case $6 down the drain. Decided to leave them alone however the next day i saw them start picking on the woods and moss. almost 3 weeks since i have them.


I added 7 more lately (total 8 in tank) but most didn't make it because I can only find 4 now.
Either they're hiding really well, or RIP already...perhaps I need to rethink this experiment

----------


## avex30

Hmm i think it might not work it may stay alive for sometimes. 1 of my pcs RIP this morning. Left one pcs still swimming here and there i hope it will last longer. Planning to start a small community with my spare nano temp since they do not need chiller.

----------


## boneshag

Bro.. ur pics damn poison... now i wanna go buy more shrimps from C328...

----------


## marimo

oooh my eyes pop out
one of my FR female also appear dark inside, maybe she's old ?

----------


## intelsys

Bro Nav, what is the chiller that you are using?

----------


## Navanod

Used to be on a Resun 1/4HP. Now on an Arctica 1/4HP.

----------


## newlife

Very nice...
Fierce looking too...
Like those Massive Aro...
The thick shell looks like it has been under-going a hard dumbbell training...muscular piece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------

