# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Catfishes >  Savant's Hypancistrus zebra (L046) Project

## Savant

Hi all, 

Now that I have decided to keep L46s(funds and livestock supply pending), I decided also to start a separate thread to document my journey in setting up my tank and collecting information. 

Tank specifications & equipment:

3ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft normal tank
2 x 10kg bags of lapis sand
3 pieces of branchy driftwood
Slate pieces
Slate caves (to arrive shortly)
Rocks 
Eheim 2026 x1

Projected Livestock (8x L46, 2-4x Whiptails, small schooling fishes - tetras?)

Questions:

What is a good powerhead to use and what flow rates should I be looking for (Note its a 3ft tank)? Additional Internal Filter required? What brand/Model is recommended?

What are possible tankmates (am looking for schooling fishes for the mid/upper layer that will not disturb the Zebras or their spawning activities, also considering shrimps)

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## celticfish

My tank is a 36" x 16" x 18".
Filter: Eheim 2026 and Resun SP1200 (700 lph).

I picked the resun as it has a cannister for wool.
The powerhead serves as by extra water flow and mechanical filtration.


Fauna:
6 x adult sturisoma
zebra juveniles

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## Savant

Let me go see if Auntie is selling this Resun filter/powerhead. I bought a Eheim 150-1000 compact powerhead but it seem to produce a weak flow in my 4ft tank. Maybe I am expecting too much??

Do you connect air to the powerhead so that I can blast mist?

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## Savant

Due to the very exciting thread by bro celticfish, I was deeply poisoned and decided to work on the tank more. Managed to remove all the old gravel and put in the new sand and driftwood. 

Not sure about the caves (not arrived yet but in abt 6-10 days!) and rock configuration) and also where to place the powerhead/internal filter. Location of rainbar/intake for the canister also not fixed. 

Here are some pics...



Outgoing tenant



I think I will miss him but no space liao!!! (Please see my FOC thread if you guys are interested in giving him a good home and TLC)

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## celticfish

Savant,

This is a picture of the said Resun SP1200 in a 3 ft tank.
You can see the tube that heads up to the top of the tank to provide air to the water jet.




One suggestion is take your time on the power head choice.
There are so many designs out there... *argh*
I must have a dozen of these, unused, at home...

The above Resun is still not my ideal choice but it does serve its purpose in that tank.
I had a hell of a time to look for a "decent" design I wanted.
I was looking for a PH with and "L" shape design for inlet and outlet.
The Eheim Compact aren't suitable as there is no inlet pipe/connector.
It's just a slot that can suck in an unsuspecting fry or snail as I found out...
The reason I wanted and inlet pipe connector is so I can attach standard inlet baskets or pipes to them.
The connector gives you lots of flexibility in configurations and attachments.

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## Savant

Oh dear, I didn't quite think of the issue of inlet pipes sucking in fries (not anytime soon) and snails. Think I will have to think carefully about this. 

I have some shrimps and plan to add more (cherries) to serve as a water "canary" of sort. Not sure if its a good idea (will shrimps disturb the fries - again a long term plan thing, or will they be eaten by the Zebras, since Zebras are carnivorous?)

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## celticfish

My compact got jammed once and I didn't realize till a few days later.
When I fished it out to examine there were snails caught in the slot...

I've seen and read reports of people keeping cherry shrimps with zebras.
Personally I don't think they are too compatible due to the higher temparature the zebras desire.
But someone did mention going brute force till he had "heat resistent" cherry shrimps.
But only after quite heavy losses though.
I'm certain a percentage of the shrimps will end up in the tummies of the zebra too.
But if you find the above point the above points acceptable... why not?!?  :Smile:

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## Savant

Always thought that cherries are very hardy these days and it is the CRS that require lower temperature. Re-looking at the pics of your tank, noted that you had a heater in there. 

What temperature is required for Zebras? Isn't our normal temperature enough?

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## celticfish

I have airconditioning in my room so...
The temp is at 28C.
If it goes higher I'm not too worried.

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## Savant

Added cherries over the weekend. They are surviving well so far. The rummies came with sunken stomachs and i lost quite a few already  :Sad:

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## Savant

Got the caves... plan to glue slates on to give it a more "natural" feel. 

This piece will go below the branchy driftwood...

What do you guys think?

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## Panut

Would the L46 get stuck inside the cave? as there is only one way in but no way to "u-turn" and come out  :Grin:

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## Savant

I *don't* think so. This you will have the ask all the other L46 bros who are using this cave... 

Anyway the idea was scrapped and I just rescaped...  :Smile:  Pics coming soon

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## eeeeemo

hey calvin! thats a good idea.. i think i'll the same too. gonna import those caves..
by the way dun worry about the chips.. slates chip off after being in water after a while..
i've decided to split mine into two colonies =)

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## Savant

Jiayuan, I discovered that another one of the caves came with a collapsed wall. At least this one can be salvaged as only one wall was in bits, will take pics when I have time, but when ordering, you will need to impress upon him that he should put some protection in the form of bubble wrap... Otherwise not such a good deal. Order 10, get 11 of which 2 are damaged, end up only got 9 :P

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## Gecko

> I don't think so. This you will have the ask all the other L46 bros who are using this cave... 
> 
> Anyway the idea was scrapped and I just rescaped...  Pics coming soon


No problem exiting or entering the cave....

By the way, really hope you keep this tank for zebras. Noticed that you have been biten quite badly by the plec bug. Those you bought (although small sized) are either adults or subadults and will out-compete the zebra juveniles for food.

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## Savant

Bro Lawrence, there are 9 plecs in the tank now... When I get the L46, I will rehouse the plecs in my 4 ft community tank (powered by a 2028 and a Jebo lookalike). That tank will also undergo some scape changes to accomodate the new larger number of plecs.

I have rescaped the tank a little this morning(with thanks to a forum bro who provided me with a good supply of rocks). These are some quick and dirty pics. Better ones to follow...


Left side



Right side 


The floating bottle is filled with peat and has small holes punched into it. Hope to bring down the PH (currently 7.7 to 7. :Cool:

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## eeeeemo

> Jiayuan, I discovered that another one of the caves came with a collapsed wall. At least this one can be salvaged as only one wall was in bits, will take pics when I have time, but when ordering, you will need to impress upon him that he should put some protection in the form of bubble wrap... Otherwise not such a good deal. Order 10, get 11 of which 2 are damaged, end up only got 9 :P


haha he tries his best to squeeze in more caves so as to give people a better deal.. i guess for you it backfired. i'll let him know about the cushioning..

btw your tank looks great la!!

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## Gecko

Very nice...if possible, I would just recommend adding another 2026 for backup and overkill...filteration is the one most important aspect.

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## Savant

Ah yes. I was just about to post that. Another 2028 (now in box) will be set up and used....

My PH is rather high at the moment, 7.8!! I hope to bring this down with some peat ( I have half a bag of Sera super peat). Will it be sufficient to place them in the 2028? Do I have to put in anything else to maintain (buffer) the PH - I hear that some bros use coral chips). 

Now I worry about catching the current inhabitants out given that the scape is so rocky :P

Any tips/tricks?

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## Panut

hi Savant, what is the normal PH level of our tap water? If i don't treat it will the L46 die?

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## eeeeemo

hi magic4life.. if you do not treat our tap water, no matter what fish you keep.. they will tend to die on you .. this is because, ph not an issue, tap water contains chlorine that kills off the beneficial nitrosomas in our filters.




> Very nice...if possible, I would just recommend adding another 2026 for backup and overkill...filteration is the one most important aspect.


hey gecko.. do you think a cf1000 on a 2ft is good enough filtration for around 4 zebras? i want to get a larger tank. but seriously, if i were to take in a 3ft, i will not have space to walk in my room ..
filtration media includes, dymax sintered glass rings + biohome + eheim ehfi substrate + ada bio rio.

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## Gecko

Not familiar with a cF1000...the best policy is to have 2 separate filteration systems, for backup and for overfilteration. Alternate the servicing of the 2 and you are always assured of good filteration...

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## Savant

I think that if you are keeping them in a 2 ft tank, you may want to build up more hiding spaces in your tank and as mentioned by Bro Gecko, create different zones with no line of sight...

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## Panut

I always leave my water in a pail for 3 days to let it age and let beneficial bacteria grow before doing a water change. is that sufficient? so far for 4months my microgalaxies have not died on me  :Smile:

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## celticfish

If your tap water is 7.8 pH I'd stick to it.
You will save yourself a lot of work and money treating water.
The Germans breed their fish in rather hard water too.

Better to get a mesh bag to replace the plastic bottle.
The holes will not have sufficient water circulation for the peat to work.

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## Savant

Bro Magic4lifez, that question should be posted in the Equipment part of the forum...

Bro Celticfish, I removed the bottle but added a bag of peat in my newly installed 2028  :Smile:  With 2 filters + 1 powerhead, I can see the particles swirling all over :P

As the current inhabitants of the tank are but temporary tenants, I will have to figure how to net them out when the L46s arrive... Any special techniques to share?

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## Quixotic

Well, pH 7.8 isn't ideal but if you must, here is some information on the relation between ammonia, pH and temperature. If you do not have experience in keeping fish in hard water, it can easily end up in disaster. So hopefully, this information will put you in good stead.

Ammonia occurs in two forms in water, NH4+ and NH3. They are called Total Ammonia Nitrogen (TAN). Test kits normally tests for TAN.

NH4+ is ionised Ammonia because it has a positive electrical charge.
NH3 is called unionised Ammonia since it has no charge.

NH3 is the form toxic to fish and it is a small fraction of TAN.

Water temperature and pH will effect which form is predominant. If water temperature and/or pH is high, NH3 will be high.

Given the specific water temperature and pH, NH3 can be calculated from the TAN.

Free Ammonia-Nitrogen Calculator & Information
http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~piwc/w...monia/nh3.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA031

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## Savant

Bro Quixotic, 

Thanks for the information. I guess I better look towards reducing the PH levels. Will get some Kepatang leaves tomorrow if I can.

I believe that my tap water is PH 7, its probably the rocks that are raising the PH for now...

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## celticfish

Good point Quixotic!

With higher pH (above 7) you have to watch your ammonia levels well as the toxic stuff increases quite exponentially.
A concise article on pH and ammonia ---> here

You can "fast forward to the section called "Effects of pH on Ammonia Toxicity"

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## Panut

very useful information celticfish!  :Well done:

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## Savant

Oh dear oh dear,measured the PH today and it's 8!!!

Should I add a handful of kepatang leaves?

Just read my tap water, PH 8 too!!! little wonder!

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## celticfish

One, make sure your pH pen is calibrated.

Two, let the water settle then take the reading.

Three, check the stones you used. It could still be leaching stuff.
It is not unusual for granite stone to have calcite inclusions.

Four, check the kH and gH too.

Last, though higher pH does increase toxicity of ammonia it can be managed. There are enough German reports on high pH spawning of L046.

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## Savant

Okie... 

Pen is calibrated... More test kits to buy... 

Good thing I have no L46s at this point in time...

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## Panut

what is calibrated?

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## Aquaculture

> what is calibrated?


What bro Savant meant was he bought a solution of ph 7. On the ph pen/probe, there's a screw for you to adjust the ph manually. Have the tip of the pen soaked in the solution and manually adjust (calibrate) the ph pen to 7.

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## Aquaculture

What is the ph of your tap water? Could it be that causing the high ph?

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## eeeeemo

calvin.. weiquan n my tap water ph clocked 7.9....
not much of a difference from jurong.

you know, he soaked river rocks in the water and it actually went down to 7.4..
is it possible for any rock to actually be acidic in nature?

i guess amount of dissolved oxygen and water movement is more important than the pH.
having a stable water parameter is crucial too.

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## weiquan

hey dudes.

the pail with rocks that the water measured PH 7.4 was actually exposed to the weather for 2 full days just for your information.

anyway i changed the water and the PH the rocks are at 7.9 PH now. i shall mointor one more day.

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## Savant

I just removed most of the hypancistrus and the 3 LDA 002s (Tiger Panaque). Now the tank only has 2 Blue Panaques and 1 L201... and will be ready to accept L46s!!!

Downside is that I have substantially messed up the initialscape which I was rather pleased with while trying to catch the fishes and I am not so good at scaping or rescaping... :P

My tap water is PH 8.2 and the water in my tank is PH 8 (with peat moss in the filter)!!!

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## Aquaculture

Geez... guess the option now is to treat the water before introducting it into the tank.

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## Savant

My new scape. I tried to replicate the previous arrangement of the rocks but it seems different somewhat... 






The left side (I'm fairly pleased with this side although this time round there seemed to be more gaps behind the rocks...



The right side... I am not too pleased with this side and may shift the rocks around abit more... with the rocks, it seems too cluttered? and without, too empty... maybe i need more branchy driftwood to balance it up... but they say, less is more...

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## eeeeemo

there are a lot of cervices.. which is good.. but your caves are sort of in the open! try having the rocks shading the entrance! or use a driftwood to do that.. i have a feeling the zebras are gonna prefer all the cervices to your caves...

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## Savant

Hmmmn, thanks for the input... Nothing beats practical advice from someone who's been there and done that... 

I guess I will have to place a few pieces of broken slate over the caves... Driftwood would be ideal but it would be tough not to mention expensive to find suitable driftwood (long, branchy and low lying), Rocks are out of the question as I dont want so much structural height on the right side of the tank.

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## torque6

Looking good!!

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## celticfish

Is that a interpet cave you have in the centre?
Try to dig in the cave, if so.
Otherwise it can turn into a mobile home!  :Laughing: 

How is the pH doing?
It might go down after a few weeks and water changes.
I do suspect the slates are leaching at the moment.

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## Savant

I added some Ketapang leaves last night to try lower the PH. Not sure if its the slates, my tap water reads over PH 8!! But will see what will happen over time...

Not sure what make that cave is, its been lying amongst my fish stuff for the longest time!!

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## baby_lucky

Very good set-up with lot of cave for hiding..

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## Savant

I have added some Annuabias Nana and Kepatang leaves... Rummynoses back in... This time their noses are red  :Smile:  

PH 7.8



Also added slate pieces to provide 'overhanging' for the caves...



Will not be changing the tank anymore this week as I will be going scuba diving over the weekend  :Smile:   :Smile:

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## Samuel2618

Bro Savant.. Love your tank setup for those L46 plecos.. Especially after you have added the Annuabias Nana and ketapang leaves.. It somehow make the tank looks more natural.. OT.. You scuba dive as well? Just asking where you usually go for diving? Me trying to source out new dive sites besides Malaysia, Bali, Philippines sites..

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## wasabi8888

I had the same problem as well in terms of PH and Irwin knows my situation as well. I solved the situation by

1. Having a PH meter attached to all my tanks, and i look at it once it all to ensure PH is more or less stable.

2. I add peat (in filter bag) into my 2028. Ph is about 6 for the last 3 months. Water straight from tap is about 8. After one hour, water from tap (left in pail) is about 7. PH will go down after a while.

Hope the above helps

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## Savant

Hey Jeffery, thanks for the headsup on the peat... 

What brand of peat do you use? I have used sera but found recently that there are loads of brands with varying price ranges. Cheap does not always mean no good and good things are not always not cheap :P

Guess i will now have to invest in a PH meter as well. Again, what brand of PH meter is recommended and the relative merits between brands if any?

Hi Samual2618,

As I started and stopped diving a long time ago and only restarted recently, I am doing the usual local sites for now... Interesting to meet a fellow diver here  :Smile:  guess theres alot in common between the two hobbies...  :Smile:  

Maybe I should start a scuba diving thread somewhere here and see what dive buddies we can find :P

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## Savant

Update:

Added 4 pieces of sub adult (2.5 to 3 inch) L46 yesterday. They have all hidden themselves well in the crevices :P I think I will need at least another 8 pieces before I get to see them. Hopefully when they grow bigger and/or more confident, they will come out more... 

A problem of complicated rockscapes like this is, I cant find my zebras inside the tank!!

I also removed the 2 blue finned panaques from the tank... but failed to catch the L201 (or is it L004)... In the process I messed up the rockscape again..  :Sad: 

Quite irritated but I now fear to shift the rocks as I am worried that I will crush a L46 hiding in between

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## celticfish

I'm using a Dennerle pH controller w/o the CO2 part.
Got the set from a whole tank setup sale.
So I don't think I can help here.
Maybe you can PM wasabi8888 to check which make he uses.

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## Savant

I think the best thing to do is to post a query in the equipment section of the forum...

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## wasabi8888

I use Sera Super peat.. have used this for a long time even before the plecos set-up. I really like it.

For Ph meter, I have 2 Pinpoint PH meter. One for each tank. The 1st one that I bought was a bit faulty and they exchanged the probe for me FOC. Other than that, it has served me pretty well

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## Savant

Found the L004 inside the cave... moments later it found itself in my 4ft com tank... 

Now its a pure zebra setup... 4 is of course not enough :P

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## Savant

Hi Mike, 

I worry about that too, and that the Zebras hide away too well that I never see them:P 

For that reason, I feed sparingly. There are little cherry shrimps to take care of whats left in between. For that reason, the tank is also largely overfiltered 1x2028 and 1x 2026.

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## Savant

I certainly hope that they come out and take occupancy of the caves... I believe they will in time.. the holes are good for the juvs that they are now but will be too small for an adult fish...

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## celticfish

How big are they?
If they are small it will be a while before they park in the caves.
btw elmike has a good point about doing frequent headcount.

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## Savant

about 2.5 inches...

Actually if i sit still in the middle of the night, I get to see them come try out the caves... but they do not stay in there for long... 

I do know they are alive as I can see bits of them wriggling between the rocks..

I want to see them eat so that I know they are eating well... but I never do...

I had other hypancistrus in that setup before the zebras moved in... they were hiding initially but later when they are used to the setup, they started to come out and play... I certainly hope its the same with the Zebras...

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## Gecko

Hi Cal

There are 2 schools of thoughts, maybe more, but lets just narrow it down a bit. Many literature and things you read up on zebra breeding setup will advise no substrate, caves lined up, even artificial plants only, and you can see examples of many sterile examples of what might be termed production lines or barracks.

Then there is having a Xingu biotope to recreate an environment that is condusive for breeding and aesthetically pleasing to you. There is no right or worng approach as it is personal preference. 

I would recommend if asked, that there are good points in both and a combination would be potent. There is a strong case for being able to eyeball the fish to check on health and ensure adequate feeding....decor must be in such a way to prevent rotting food from going undetected, etc... Ultimately you choose a good approach that works for you and your colony.

I really like your scape. You would have to lift up some rocks to vac the substrate below during weekly water change. You might want to add a simple curve wood for the young ones to hide, so you can easier monitor and feed them.

Also young fry like to hide together in dark places. I have a few driftwood that is arched to form a cavern or cave when placed on top of the substrate. There are easily 20 of them squeezed tight into a ball inside, they draw a lot of comfort and sense of security. I placed this wood right in front to the left of the 4 ft tank, and I drop hikari carni pellets right at their door steps. It is only after hitting almost 1.5" to 2" that I notice they start to wonder off to hide in crevices in the rocks, etc, alone.

Once they settle down, it is easy to monitor them as they don't stray far from their chosen cave or spots. A zebra with a cave or hiding place to retreat to is a confident zebra and you will begin to notice them moving in the open. Having said that, a hidden one is also a healthy one, if you see one out in the open, it is seldom a good sign...this is the trait of this wonderful fish we have chosen to breed.

Finally, once you settle down to a certain routine, leave them well alone and you will be rewarded. Have fun and many times once you stop worrying and checking, thats when you will be rewarded and surprised by the sight of a fry zipping across the tank when you on the lights in the morning  :Smile:

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## Savant

Thank you for your kind words Lawrence...

The scape was largely inspired by your setup. I am starting to identify their hiding places although there 1-2 pieces who shift about quite abit. They have also started to venture out (got some pics but will be sometime before I put them up)...

As the river rocks are rather heavy with little crevices formed around their uneven shape, I am often worried about shifting the rocks as I fear that one or two of them might get crushed or trapped in a sealed gap when I replace the rock.

I am thinking of introducing snails/malayan shrimps to deal with uneaten food that I cannot spot/siphon away.. feeding will of course be controlled... 

_Guys, any snails to recommend?_

I also plan to fill up whatever gaps I can find with small river pebbles so that the Zebras will be forced to take up residency in the caves and other planned gaps (where I can see them)...

_What do you guys think?_

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## wasabi8888

I had 1 Yamato shrimp in my juvenile L46 set-up. The problem is that the shrimp keeps stealing and eating the food that i feed the L46s. In in the end i took it out..

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## Savant

> In that case, you have a more serious problem. 
> If you’re not going to be able to see your babes, your interest is gonna fizzle out very fast! I made sure my aquascape has enough caves for mine to hide, but not to the extent that I cannot see them. Even if all I’m seeing is the backside, I’m quite satisfied as I know they’re alive and not rotting away.


Fortunately, they do come out a little such that I can see them..













Mike, didn't realise that you are also silently keeping L46s :P Would love to see your setup too  :Smile:

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## Savant

Minor changes to the scape... added 8 little Sturisomas... 



One of the guys seem to have taken up permanent residency on the right side of the tank...

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## Savant

There was a near disaster today at the tank. After returning home I went to look at the tank, discovered that a few of the cherry shrimps had died. The zebras were out and breathing a little heavily and the water was cloudy.

Not sure what could have happened as I only just did a 30 percent WC yesterday and I feed the fishes (L46, rummynoses, juv sturisomas and shrimps)in the tank sparingly. 

Quickly drained out another 40 percent of the water, dosed easylife and anti chlorine and added aeration. I also washed the sponges I used over the filter intake to prevent shrimps/rummies from getting caught by the strong suction of the filter. 

Not sure what happened. Suspect that the sponge got clogged and the filter wasn't about to work effectively. 

So far they look okay now... but will be watching them carefully for now...

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## Gecko

Sav

I would strongly recommend that you add on another 2026 asap...I just saw a used one for sale at half the price of a zebra...over filteration is the best protection for them and for peace of mind.

My 4x2x2 each has a set of these, and I am still not satisfied...will continue to add on. Both cannisters probably cost less than 10% of the fish stock, as they say, "you do the math".

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## Savant

Erm bro lawrence, 

I am running on 1x 2028 and 1x2026 (and its already a washing machine :P)

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## Gecko

Hmmm, sorry I missed that, in that case, what just happened in your tank is strange - a few dead shrimps would cause cloudy water, one day after water change, to the extend that the zebras are out breathing heavily.....

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## Savant

I suspect that it could be due to one of the following reasons...

1. I covered the filter intake with sponge and it got clogged. 

2. One of the filter pipes got bent (This has happened before) and i must have straightened it when trying to remedy the situation

3. The electrical connections for one of the filters got loose (this has happened before but should not happen now as I changed the plug slots to a more secure one)

4. Warm weather caused a bacteria boom (I may have overfed by 2-3 carni tabs on saturday)

5. I am relying on the rain bar spray for aeration and the flow is weakened as the filter clogs, and the amount of dissolved oxygen is insufficient for the recent warmer weather. ( i have added an airstone since)

In any event, I should clarify that it may not be really the near disaster I thought it was... Just that I am a little bit more "gan cheong" about my zebras.

Just went to check on them... so far so good...  :Smile: 

Just want to check though, they do become more active after settling in? Those guys have been coming out and moving around abit, but hide away once they notice me approaching... I'm quite happy to be able to see them out at play but am a little worried about the maxim "a hiding pleco is a happy pleco" :P

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## celticfish

Add the sponge rinsing to your weekly routine.
But the slow flow shouldn't kill the bacteria.
Bent pipes will restrict or stop the flow entirely... more dangerous.
The stuff in the filter will die and when you clear the flow send loads of ammonia into the tank.

Over feeding carnivore tabs will not cause this kind of cloudiness.
They are manufactured not to do so.
The tabs hold their shape and just grow fungus around them after a day or so.





> Just want to check though, they do become more active after settling in? Those guys have been coming out and moving around abit, but hide away once they notice me approaching... I'm quite happy to be able to see them out at play but am a little worried about the maxim "a hiding pleco is a happy pleco" :P


THIS is a very good sign they are well adjusted in your tank.  :Well done: 
Very normal behaviour for them.
Hiding is when you have your face on the front glass of the tank.  :Grin: 
When they don't hide then... its a very very bad sign (unless they are very familiar with you).

They are more active than most people give them credit for.
But if you are patient (move very slowly to the tank or from under), they are familiar with you, or you observe from a stand-off distance.
You can then see more of their "normal" behaviour.
I saw most of it when I had them initially in a bare tank with just pieces of ADA DW I was suppose to scape with.

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## Savant

Just got home and observed them a little.. all's well  :Smile:  phew...

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## Panut

:Smile: 

Hope they will spawn for you soon!  :Very Happy:

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## Savant

They are a little young... I think another year to go... my fishes are F1 I believe, and there is some talk of F1s maturing earlier in some other forums... so who knows :P

Maybe the rainy season of December will bring me an early X'Mas present  :Smile:

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## Savant

Waiting for them to grow up is quite tough... I notice that there are at least 3 of them that hang out regularly in caves... the rest of them hide between the rocks....

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## celticfish

"ten green bottles hanging on the wall
ten green bottles hanging on the wall
and if one green bottle should accidently fall
there'll be nine green bottles hanging on the wall...."

But for L046, I recommend using ten thousand green bottles...  :Laughing: 
Just do regular feeding, good water changes and regular tank maintenance regime for the next two years.
They grow really really slow.
Best to get a side project to occupy some time.
Least you get some "bright" idea to change their setup etcetera...

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## drakeho

Haha . Thats why I am also keeping Wild betta , guppies , rays as side project . The wait is really long man for L046 ....  :Grin:

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## Savant

Its difficult to hold your hands... in the meantime I have amassed so many different types of pleco food (theres this brand charmy pleco) to try out... I probably have all the brands in the market now...

I know I shouldn't, but I must confess that I added more fish to my tank... 

Will try to take some pics if I can...

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## Savant

Spotted something interesting recently...

Out of my 5 or so caves in the Zebra tank, at least 2 of them will be constantly occupied (males?), 2 other caves (100% and 80%) will be occupied from time to time (30-40% of the time) and I don't see the rest of the zebras... (presumably hiding in the rocks)

Its often a worry that I have way too many male fishes to establish a breeding ratio... 

Recently, I note that the other fish occupying one other cave is mostly gone... I have reasons to believe that at least one of the fishes is a female.




BTW, what are those white spotted thingys growing on my rocks?

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## corywink

you have nerite snails in your tank? Those look like nerite eggs, I got rid of my nerites because of those eggs :Flame:

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## weiquan

i believe they are snail eggs too bro.

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## Savant

Yes... means i can breed those 1 dollar a piece nerite snails? 

Now, about the two of them sharing a cave... how does a pair preparing to spawn behave?

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## Savant

They are still in the cave together.... I read in planet catfish that if its a spawn it may take from 1 to 4 days to spawn....

Really excited and trying my bestest to leave them alone... I usually change their water at this time... I should just leave the tank alone right?!

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## eeeeemo

hey!!! congrats congrats! how large are they? your zebras have grown so much!

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## Savant

I measured with reference to the cave... 5.2 to 5.3cm including tail...

Not sure if this is a spawn or just youngsters huddling... I note that they do not usually share caves and even when they do, they do not stay in there together for long... Now the fish nearer to the entrace (suspect male) occassionly move out until its body is almost parallel to the cave entrance with the hand partially in(this is how i measure the length)... Not sure if this is what you guys mean by trapping the female...but the female (suspect) has little chance of coming out this way...



I note that when corydoras and apisto spawn, they will spasm and jerk quite abit... (mine doesnt)...

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## drakeho

update soon ok !!!

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## Savant

Went to check earlier.... cave empty... both fishes not there liao...  :Sad:  make me happy for nothing only

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## celticfish

They will need some growing before they are ready to breed.
For now you should try to ID them individually so you can observe the individuals.
This will later give you better clues in sexing as you can recall the behaviour of each fish.

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## Savant

Bump up for Jamie  :Smile:

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## Jamie24

nice mate, cheers, good luck with them!  :Grin:

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