# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  Low light Java, moss and Crypt tank *update*

## Happy Camper

New setup started a few weeks ago. 3ft tank, low light setup, no co2, weekly ferts added (K and Mgso4, traces), no water changes yet!
It still looks a bit bare but once the moss grows in it should look a bit better. Unfortunately the only moss I can get my hands on here in South Africa is Vesicularia Dubyana. I understand that this moss has been reclassified as Taiwan moss, is this correct? Would like to add a few more species of moss but so far I have'nt found any. Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks.

Flora includes:
Cryptocoryne Wendtii, brown and green,
Cryptocoryne Pontederifolia
Cryptocoryne Parva
Sagitaria Sabulata
Cladaphora moss balls
Microsorium Pteropus, Windelov and Long leaf
Bolbitis Heudeloti
Vesicularia Dubyana
Riccia Fluitans
Anubias Coffeefolia
Anubias Nana

Fauna includes:
White cloud mountain minnows
Lampeye Killifish
Clown Killifish
MTS and Neritina related snails
Chrystal Red Shrimp

Here's a full tank shot


Anubias and Java ferns


Cryptocoryne Pontederiifolia


Cryptocoryne wendti green


Kind Regards
Cameron James

Gan : I have replaced the space in the url with '%20'

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## timebomb

Cameron,

The pictures are not showing. If you have problems uploading them, send them to me by private email and I'll post them for you.

Taiwan Moss is _Taxiphyllum alternans_ while Singapore Moss is _Vesicularia dubyana_. What you have in South Africa is probably Java Moss, formerly thought to be _V. dubyana_ but is actually _Taxiphyllum barbieri._ Read this article to find out more.

Let me have your address through private message and I'll get some mosses to you, Cameron.

Loh K L

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## FC

Cameron,

I like the rock and wood placements. They provided a good foundation.

I am not so sure about the plant, it's a bit difficult to envisage the end result. However, the bunch of crypt at the right back corner looks great.

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## RRG

Wow. In the right foreground side of the tank, that lit candle on top of a rock is unbelievable!  :Laughing:  

Nice tank Cameron.

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## timebomb

Is it just me? How come I can't see the pictures while others can?

Loh K L

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## RonWill

All you need is a candle in the tank to see the setup. Nothing to it  :Rolling Eyes:  

BTW, Cameron, I was thinking you took the photo before adding water. That was until I enlarged the image. Nice arrangement but in dire need of more plants. Cutting off the distraction from behind the tank would improve the focus, I think.

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## RRG

I couldn't see the pictures too within this forum. I had to cut and paste the address to a different window to see it.

Cameron,
Before you post an image, try previewing it first to test if it will show and then submit.

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## Happy Camper

> Cameron,
> 
> The pictures are not showing. If you have problems uploading them, send them to me by private email and I'll post them for you.


Hi Loh

I uploaded the pics to my webspace and just linked back to them here. If they are'nt showing for you its because of our very slow servers and bandwidth, its not you. My apologies. Are they showing now for you?




> Taiwan Moss is _Taxiphyllum alternans_ while Singapore Moss is _Vesicularia dubyana_. What you have in South Africa is probably Java Moss, formerly thought to be _V. dubyana_ but is actually _Taxiphyllum barbieri._ Read this article to find out more.


Thanks for that link, that explains alot. At least now I know.




> Let me have your address through private message and I'll get some mosses to you, Cameron.


Loh (is this your first name?)
That would be absolutely fantastic (jumping for joy).
Please listen to this story b4 you send, I don't want you to waste any money on postal fees. I posted a while back asking this forum for Riccia and Fissidens and Marco Aukes offered to send me some Riccia in exchange for a plant that I have. The package of Riccia from Marco never arrived as it was marked 'plants' and was probably stuck at customs!
However, the plant that I sent to him did actually get through to him in the Netherlands (this happened about a week ago). It was quite expensive for me to send that package so I don't know what your postal charges are so I do not want you to go through all the effort for nothing. I think if it is sent as a normal package and not marked plants it should make it here.

Thank you for the kind offer, I will pm you.

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## Happy Camper

> Cameron,
> 
> I like the rock and wood placements. They provided a good foundation.
> I am not so sure about the plant, it's a bit difficult to envisage the end result. However, the bunch of crypt at the right back corner looks great.


Its a very low light tank so I'll post an update in about 5 years time and we'll se how it looks then  :Smile:

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## Happy Camper

> All you need is a candle in the tank to see the setup. Nothing to it  
> 
> BTW, Cameron, I was thinking you took the photo before adding water. That was until I enlarged the image. Nice arrangement but in dire need of more plants. Cutting off the distraction from behind the tank would improve the focus, I think.


Dear Ronwill

Yes those are special...ahem...underwater candles  :Twisted Evil:  

All of those plants in that tank have come from existing tanks, I just had to use what I had at the time as I'm experiencing a shortage of funds at the moment and did'nt want to buy plants...call me a cheapskate  :Laughing:  

I do agree that it needs more plants though, I did add more Anubias to the rickwork over the weekend and a HUGE anubias Congensis was added to the background. Its looking better but still a tad bare. I'm also thinking of adding a white background as I think it will match the sand foreground and make the pipes and wiring less visible, what do you think?

Many thanks for your comments, appreciated.

Warm regards
Cameron James

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## timebomb

Cameron,

I can see the pictures now. Thanks.

You know, I always get confused when people asked me about first and last names. This is because we Chinese don't see our names as such. In other words, we do not have a first, a middle or a last name. With our names, what you see is a family name which is right in front and what follows that is our given name. In my case, Loh is my family name. My daughters are Loh Pei Si and Loh Pei Ying. Kwek Leong is my given name. Kwek isn't a middle name although it appears in the middle. A small percentage of Chinese have only one name which follows the family name. For instance, Li Ao. In this instance, Li is the family name and Ao the given name. But don't worry if you get it wrong. It happens all the time. The fact that some Chinese who live in the West choose to put their family names after their given names only add to the confusion. 

Speaking of names, yours reminds me of a certain movie, the one about the ship Titanic  :Laughing:  You sure you didn't get your first and last names mixed up?  :Laughing: 

Don't worry about the mosses. I'm quite sure they will get through customs. If they don't, just write me and I'll try again. I no longer have _Riccia fluitans_ in my tanks or I'll send some of it too. But let's see how it goes. I may be able to get some from the fish shops. No promises though. _R. fluitans_ is no longer a popular plant here. Many hobbyists think it's like Aids, in that, once they are in your tanks, it's impossible to get rid of the plant when you don't want them anymore.

Loh K L

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## Happy Camper

> You know, I always get confused when people asked me about first and last names. This is because we Chinese don't see our names as such. In other words, we do not have a first, a middle or a last name. With our names, what you see is a family name which is right in front and what follows that is our given name. In my case, Loh is my family name. My daughters are Loh Pei Si and Loh Pei Ying. Kwek Leong is my given name. Kwek isn't a middle name although it appears in the middle. A small percentage of Chinese have only one name which follows the family name. For instance, Li Ao. In this instance, Li is the family name and Ao the given name. But don't worry if you get it wrong. It happens all the time. The fact that some Chinese who live in the West choose to put their family names after their given names only add to the confusion.


Thanks for the explanation, Kwek Leong. Yes it is indeed a tad confusing but I will try my best to remember what you just taught me. Thanks.




> Speaking of names, yours reminds me of a certain movie, the one about the ship Titanic  You sure you didn't get your first and last names mixed up?


LOL. I get that all the time. And for what its worth, Titanic was'nt the best movie I have made  :Cool: 




> Don't worry about the mosses. I'm quite sure they will get through customs. If they don't, just write me and I'll try again.


Holy smokes batman, are you serious? That would be fantastic. Lets be positive and take for granted that they *WILL* arrive the first time. MANY thanks for this.




> I no longer have _Riccia fluitans_ in my tanks or I'll send some of it too. But let's see how it goes. I may be able to get some from the fish shops. No promises though. _R. fluitans_ is no longer a popular plant here. Many hobbyists think it's like Aids, in that, once they are in your tanks, it's impossible to get rid of the plant when you don't want them anymore.


Not to worry about the Riccia, I was able to get a small section from Tyrone Genade who I believe is a regular here. In fact I have received several great plant species from Tyrone. If you can manage to send me any types of moss that are'nt the 'old' java moss we have here, that would be perfection.  :Wink:  

Thank you kindly
Warm regards
Cameron James

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## Green Baron

Kwek Leong,
The 'middle name' actually has some significance. It is call the generation name, i.e. It tells you which generation you belongs to within the clan. e.g. for the Gan clan, anyone with the middle name of Cheong will be generation no 'X'. 'Gan *Kah* XXX' for my father's generation, Gan *Cheong* XXXfor my generation and Gan *Boon* XXX for the next generation. So the middle name is not something you randomly pick. There is a book which you can lookup to find out which middle name you should use for each generation and this applies only to the son. Of course not all Chinese, especially the younger generation, follow this so it is not always true but I know for a fact that many in the Gan clan follow this tradition.

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## timebomb

I'm aware of the generation code in our names, Gan. If you noticed, my daughters have the same middle name - "Pei". My brothers' daughters all carry the same middle name too. My daughters are Pei Si and Pei Ying while their cousins are Pei Yan, Pei Hong and Pei San. 

But the tradition of using a generation name is slowly dying. These days, parents place more importance on choosing a good English name for their children. There are even parents who have decided not to give their children Chinese names altogether. 

I"m one of the few people in my generation who chose not to give my children English names. Really, I'm a dying breed. 

Loh K L

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## Green Baron

I do noticed but the generation code typically do not apply to the daughters because they do not carry on the family name.





> But the tradition of using a generation name is slowly dying. These days, parents place more importance on choosing a good English name for their children. There are even parents who have decided not to give their children Chinese names altogether. 
> 
> I"m one of the few people in my generation who chose not to give my children English names. Really, I'm a dying breed. 
> Loh K L


I agree with you. Sometimes the younger generation ae even a shame of their Chinese name  :Evil:  
You are not alone. I do not give my children English name as well.  :Very Happy:

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## Happy Camper

Hi everyone

I have an updated picture of my tank that I would like to share. I added more moss to cover the driftwood and rocks. Also added a few more Anubias. And a big thanks to Loh K L who kindly posted me 2 packets of moss and are now residing in the tank. Is it a big no no to mix moss species? I currently have 2 species in the tank.

Ronwill: I know you said it needed more plants, I think I have added enough for now and it all just needs to grow in. I still have'nt found a background yet that i am happy with so all my equipment is still showing, if possible try and see past this little glitch  :Smile: 

Gan, I was hoping you might enjoy all the Anubias.

Heres the updated pic. Thanks for having a squizz.



Kind Regards
Cameron

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## timebomb

It's okay to mix the mosses in your tank, Cameron. Sometimes, this is discouraged but only because you may have problems sorting them out later and not because the mosses can hybridise into new species.

I try to keep my mosses separate but with so many species, it's a lost cause. I can no longer differentiate the Singapore Moss from the Christmas Moss in my tanks because these 2 species look very much the same. I can still tell Taiwan from Erect from Weeping from Spiky but this is provided only they are growing well and there's a fairly big bunch of it. It's impossible to tell one frond from another. 

I see your tank is shaping up nicely. What's your temperature like? It's okay to go without CO2 for mosses and ferns but still, I think it will make a difference. I'm partial to CO2 injection because before I discovered this thing about CO2, I tried for years to grow aquatic plants without any success.

Loh K L

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## FC

Cameron,

The tank looks promising. You just got to wait :P .

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## Happy Camper

> I see your tank is shaping up nicely. What's your temperature like? It's okay to go without CO2 for mosses and ferns but still, I think it will make a difference. I'm partial to CO2 injection because before I discovered this thing about CO2, I tried for years to grow aquatic plants without any success. Loh K L


Dear Loh K L

Thanks for the notes about the mosses, appreciated.

The temp in the tank at the moment is a bit on the low side, 19 degrees celsius. Its winter here now and I'm in the Highveld which means it gets bitterly cold. Apparently this is going to be the coldest winter Johannesburg has seen in years, I have blankets and jackets, gloves, scrafs and wooly boots ready  :Smile:  ....I don't tolerate the cold very well  :Smile: 
Will have to add a heater to the tank if it drops any lower.

About the co2: Its difficult to get pressurised co2 over here so most of us do it DIY. Do you think it will still help? This tank has only got 13watts (Flourescent bulb) with a reflector under the hood. Do you think the co2 would make a difference under such low light?

Warm regards
Cameron

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## Happy Camper

Hi Freddy

This is such a low light setup that its taking ages for the plants to grow, like watching paint dry  :Confused:  . I think I may take Loh K L's advice and start pumping co2.

Regards
Cameron

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## FC

Hi Cameron,

So long the plant is growing, it would need some form of carbon for its' main building block.

Before you embark on CO2 injection (you can use those CO2 tank that makes over-the-counter gased drinks like Coca Cola), you may want to check the CO2 level in the tank. This can be done by using KH & PH kits. Let me know if you need guide on such readings to get indicative CO2 concentration.

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## timebomb

Cameron,

Freddy is the best person to answer technical questions but I've always believe CO2 injection always helps aquarium plants to grow better. A DIY yeast CO2 generator works just as well as a high-tech system except that you will have to keep refilling the bottle every 10 days or so. 

Your lighting seems a bit low. Although mosses and ferns can grow in low-light conditions, they grow a lot faster under high lighting. The lights that I use were bought from a hardware store and not from a fish shop. I'm using:

Philips Fluotone
TL-D 36W/865

They are supposed to be "Extra long life and extra bright". Such lights are often used in places where high lighting is required, for instance, school classrooms and departmental stores. I believe you should be able to find something similar in South Africa. Compared to the lights sold in fish shops, these are far cheaper. And just as effective.

Over here, people will freeze to death if the thermometer falls below 20 degrees C  :Laughing:  but those of us who grow mosses in our tanks will jump with joy. Generally, with mosses, we believe the colder it is, the better. I would think twice before putting in a heater. 

Loh K L

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## Happy Camper

Dear Loh K L and Freddy

I am very familiar with planted tanks running on DIY co2, been doing it for the last 3 years or so. Problem is that all of my co2 tanks eventually got BBA and so I just gave up on the co2 thing. This is the first tank I have that is low-light no co2 so this is new to me. I will need to decide what route to take but I believe a tad more light and a dash of co2 will probably help alot. But if I start to get BBA again I'm coming back to blame you guys  :Twisted Evil:   :Laughing:  
Will keep you posted on the progress.

As far as the temp is concerned: It might be ok for the mosses but I have a couple of Killies in this tank aswell. I am not very clued up on Killies, hence me joining this forum, so would the low temps be ok for them aswell? How low can I go?

I think that Killies separate the men from the boys and at this point I am still a boy  :Laughing:  as I have had very bad luck at keeping Killies. Hopefuly this site will help me on my Killie adventures.

Thanks for the all the advice so far, I'm enjoying it.

Warm regards
Cameron

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## Happy Camper

Here's an update on my tank.

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## timebomb

Nice, Cameron. I see you have put the spiralling diffuser to good use already  :Smile: 

Are you using DIY CO2? The spiralling diffuser works great with CO2 from a yeast bottle. 

Is that a spray bar at the top of the tank? Over here, most hobbyists do not use spray bars for the returning water. We use L-shaped tubes or the elbows from Eheim to direct the water back into the tank. Spray bars have the effect of agitating the water surface, thereby causing loss of CO2. It's like shaking a can of coke, if you know what I mean. 

It could be just my imagination but I thought I saw brown algae on the leaves of the _Anubias_. Brown algae is the easiest of algae to eradicate but I don't know if the fish is available in the shops of South Africa. Get an _Otocinclus affinis_ or a Chinese algae-eater and the brown algae will disappear overnight.

Loh K L

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## Happy Camper

> I see you have put the spiralling diffuser to good use already


It's a sweet bit of equipment, I like it a lot, and it works surprisingly well. It's quite hypnotising watching the bubbles slowly rise to the surface  :Smile: 




> Are you using DIY CO2? The spiralling diffuser works great with CO2 from a yeast bottle.


Yes I'm still going the diy route, call me a cheapskate  :Laughing:  Seems to work great with this diffuser though.




> Is that a spray bar at the top of the tank? Over here, most hobbyists do not use spray bars for the returning water. We use L-shaped tubes or the elbows from Eheim to direct the water back into the tank.


I have the spray bar pointing down towards the front of the tank at a 45 degree angle, there's not much surface agitation at all so hopefully I'm not wasting much co2. I think I'll try your method with an L tube and see how that goes, thanks for the suggestion.




> It could be just my imagination but I thought I saw brown algae on the leaves of the _Anubias_. Brown algae is the easiest of algae to eradicate but I don't know if the fish is available in the shops of South Africa. Get an _Otocinclus affinis_ or a Chinese algae-eater and the brown algae will disappear overnight.


There is a bit of Detritus on the leaves but I can safely say that there is absolutely no visible algae in this tank. I'll try and take some close ups soon so you can see the leaves more clearly. If i add Ottos they might starve to death  :Confused:   :Rolling Eyes:  I do have a chinese algae eater, he lives outside in my pond, he's a HUGE bugger, but there's no chance of catching him due to all the pond weeds and hiding places. I will be adding 10 Emperor Tetras to the tank next week, I think now with the addition of co2 the plants will enjoy the extra Nitrates from the fish, I'm trying to keep this tank as natural as possible without adding many chemicals to it, so far it seems quite balanced (touch wood).

Thanks for taking a squizz Loh.

Warm regards
Cameron

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## FC

Hi Cameron,

There something wrong with my browser the last few days, I cannot make any posting.

The tank has matured well, congratulation! I agree with KL on addition of Otocinclus affinis but not the chinese algae eater for your tank. Unlike chinese algae eater's large appetite, Otto will clean the leafs without damaging them. Otto also munch and clean woods. Your tank can easily support (provide enough food) one or two Ottos for long run.

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## Happy Camper

Thanks FC,

Good to see your browser is working again  :Laughing:

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## fish newb

Nice tank! I really like how simple but beautiful it is!

-Andrew

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## Happy Camper

I said I would post some close up pics of the leaves. Plant health is fairly good, I'm using a fertiliser specially designed by a local professor to suit our SA water which is fairly soft. The ferts do not contain N&P (The high fish load takes care of that).

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## AquaManCanada

Good looking tank there Cameron. For some reason the first sets of pictures will not load for me. Anyone else having this issue?

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## fish newb

> I'm aware of the generation code in our names, Gan. If you noticed, my daughters have the same middle name - "Pei". My brothers' daughters all carry the same middle name too. My daughters are Pei Si and Pei Ying while their cousins are Pei Yan, Pei Hong and Pei San. 
> 
> But the tradition of using a generation name is slowly dying. These days, parents place more importance on choosing a good English name for their children. There are even parents who have decided not to give their children Chinese names altogether. 
> 
> I"m one of the few people in my generation who chose not to give my children English names. Really, I'm a dying breed. 
> 
> Loh K L


Hey guys, Being in the USA thats very interesting to hear, Its a bit similar over here but basically backwards. First name is given mine's Andrew, then Middle, Might be random but usually is some significance for firstborn Mine's Lee which is my father's and my grandfathers and his fathers, Then Hill which is my family name..

Thats really interesting though Loh, My Name your way would probably be something like Hill (Generation) Andrew? Thats pretty cool  :Rolling Eyes:  Sign my paper in school that way see if I get strange looks..........  :Laughing:  

As for ditching cultural names I think thats wrong... Something to be proud of, but hell I'm just an american kid, I can see switching the name around for when living here to make it easier though. One of my friends has done this (W/out me realizing it lol)

-Andrew

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## whuntley

My story is even funnier.

My given name (Wright) is normally a family name in English cultures. I have no middle name, it is only the initial H. My family name is Huntley. I also possess, but don't use, the suffix Junior.

How did this come about? It was because my grandmother's maiden family name was Hand. My father was born a year or two after the famous flight by the Wright Brothers. Her pediatrician had a bizarre sense of humor and suggested they call my father Wright Hand Huntley. My terminally anti-social grandparents actually took his stupid joke seriously, so that's what my father was named.

He despised it all his life, but agreed to name me the same, with one big change. The middle name would be dropped and only the initial letter H was to be on my birth certificate. He thought eliminating the joke was enough.

Little did he know that it would have no effect whatsoever on those folks that insist on reversing my first and last names. After a three year fight with the local college's computer, I still turned up, this spring, as Huntley Wright! It plays hell with my attempts to get academic pricing on Microsoft and Adobe software.

I hope this makes some of you folks with traditional Chinese names feel less alone when we western folks can't get your given and family names straight. It even happens to your bloviator emeritus (or is that emeritus bloviator?).

Wright

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