# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Anabantoids >  Finally... Fries!

## Emokidz

After getting at it 3 times, the pair's 4th spawn came in with a decent number of fries. 

Water parameters:

pH: 4.5 - 5.5
No substrate
No filter / air pump

Hope that they'll be fine and grow up to be as beautiful as their parents.

----------


## Emokidz

Some pictures (quite bad ones)... But do enjoy nonetheless!
DSC04724.jpg
DSC04716.jpg

DSC04730.jpg
DSC04729.jpg
DSC04728.jpg

----------


## felix_fx2

Congrats. Good decent amount there

----------


## 900801

Good job. Had no luck with my first pair. Hopefully the second one will spawn  :Very Happy:  any full tank shots?

----------


## Emokidz

> Congrats. Good decent amount there


Yup it is. The Previous 3 spawns yielded 3 fry in total (2,1,0 fry respectively). So this spawn can be considered a good one.

----------


## Emokidz

> Good job. Had no luck with my first pair. Hopefully the second one will spawn  any full tank shots?


Sure! I'll try to get a full tank shot up soon. Hope your 2nd pair will produce results though... These guys are so rare as it is!

----------


## Emokidz

Here's a full tank view. Water is stained with KTP and water changes done every week... Enjoy...

The black canister is on the left.  :Smile: 

DSC04769.jpg

Persephone's blue fins, since the above pictures don't do justice to the beauty of this fish. Well... even these pictures don't... Haha!
DSC04731.jpg

Still can't get a full shot (gave up here.. haha). The white bit is dust on the tank glass.
DSC04746.jpg

----------


## 900801

Same set up, same weekly water change except there is an age water tank above the tank. Also don't have floating plants. When I use to keep frog bits, they melted on me. Have duck weeds but don't dare use because contaminated. Might try some Salvinas.

----------


## Emokidz

I'm using Salvania. You can try it out. It lasts longer but dies after a month. That's when i replace it with new ones from my planted tank. Haha!

----------


## johannes

Nice going bro, congrats! That's a neat set up too.
They can produce up to 20 eggs from my experience; and the 2nd spawn can be in another 2 weeks' time.
Normally, i will let them spawn twice, and have a mixture of fries in the parents' tank for about 2 months, until the fries are around 1 -1.5 cm before i put them in a separate grow out tank.
This will ensure better growth and well-being. So usually it would be around 40 fries with the parents in the tank, therefore, more rigorous water change would be needed.
The presence of fries in the tank will somehow stop the pair from breeding. Once i have removed them from the parents' tank, the pair will spawn again.
The above was based on mine and others may have different experience. 
Sharing my old pictures for old time sake... miss my pair...

----------


## Mudskipper

> Sharing my old pictures for old time sake... miss my pair...


Come back to the wild side, Johannes. Poison! Poison!

----------


## Mudskipper

Is that a Gex Small Size tanks? They seem to work only for my little channoides but are too small for my others. Am thinking of trading up to the Large ones that work better for me.

----------


## Emokidz

> Nice going bro, congrats! That's a neat set up too.
> [/IMG]


 Hi Johannes, thanks! Yup I'm planning to leave them in with the parents. Do you separate the parents at any time or just leave them in the tank undisturbed to do their thing?
I've read your previous posts too on breeding B. persephone, very inspiring!

----------


## Emokidz

> Is that a Gex Small Size tanks? They seem to work only for my little channoides but are too small for my others. Am thinking of trading up to the Large ones that work better for me.


Yes they are Gex S tanks. The smaller bubble nesters can be kept in them as pairs since they never grow past 5cm. For persephones, never past 4cm. Haha.
I noticed you keep more mouthbrooders, some from the Unimac complex which do get quite big. So an L would definitely be good.

----------


## Mudskipper

Live and learn. I've got two 2ft tanks on the top tier of the rack...first tier now has 3 L tanks. Next two tiers are filled with the S tanks...but may just switch them all to L tanks and give up the channoides too...can't make my mind up. Yeah, I prefer the larger fishes. Used to really like the smaller ones before but I can't do bubblenesters cause I can't stand the smell of stagnant water.

----------


## stormhawk

Congratulations Emokidz. B. persephone is a beautiful little species. Which population is this?

----------


## Emokidz

Hi Jianyang, they are indeed beautiful. And their personality and peaceful nature adds to their allure. This is the Muar strain. The Ayer Hitam sp. is getting rarer in the hobby. Currently trying to get 2 pairs of those from Hermanus. I intend to keep both strains separately.

----------


## Emokidz

> Live and learn...give up the channoides too...Used to really like the smaller ones before but I can't do bubblenesters cause I can't stand the smell of stagnant water.


Indeed, I am definitely still learning as well. Frequently get advice from some of the pros here and over the phone. Haha. In my free time, I read articles on the species from ibc and other websites/forums. I agree that members of the coccina complex are all very beautiful for such small fish. From experience, the stagnant water does begin to smell at times due to uneaten food and rotting detritus. I try to remove ktp leaves before they start rotting (about once every 3 weeks) and use apple snails which are great at cleaning up (a tip I picked up from a good friend of mine who breeds channoides too!). The heavy staining of ktp helps too. Somehow it subdues the smell and makes the water smell somewhat like tea. Hope this helps!

I don't think you should gve up on channoides though. They are so cute and lovely!

----------


## Mudskipper

Ooo, apple snails. Must go look for some. Right now, I'm keeping them...including the tank of babies. I count about 10 or so...so small, my eyesight is bad. LOL!

----------


## stormhawk

Hello Bernard,

That's a pity. From what I see, almost all of the small bubblenesters are getting scarce in the hobby. A good friend of mine is returning from Germany to Malaysia over the weekend. Even he says the anabantoid scene is getting smaller and smaller even in Europe.

----------


## 900801

Guess we all know the channodes buddy haha. Heard from him about the apple snails too. However in my opinion I feel that apple snails aren't the best, shrimps either. For cherry shrimps if the water is too dark and the ph quite low, they just die. Apple snails i used to keep them many years ago with betta smaragdina some live really long some just die off. Their optimal ph is 7-8. I feel that we should use Nerite Snail instead(never tried before but just gut feel. If i have time i'll get some and test). Or just do weekly water change. Usually the best option is just water change. Thats just my 2 cents.

----------


## Emokidz

> Ooo, apple snails. Must go look for some. Right now, I'm keeping them...including the tank of babies. I count about 10 or so...so small, my eyesight is bad. LOL!


C328 brings in apple snails regularly, they can e found in the small tanks they store corydoras next to the stingray section. Not recommended if you have fine substrate in your tank though, the snails don't seem to like this and have a hard time getting about. Haha. From my experience, grow out tanks without substrate are much easier to maintain, and siphon out waste. 

All the best! Channoide fry get cuter as time goes by, exact miniatures of their parents (less the colour though)...

----------


## Emokidz

> Hello Bernard,
> 
> That's a pity. From what I see, almost all of the small bubblenesters are getting scarce in the hobby. A good friend of mine is returning from Germany to Malaysia over the weekend. Even he says the anabantoid scene is getting smaller and smaller even in Europe.


Yup, the need for these small species (or wild betta in general) to have species-only set ups, coupled with their prices is probably a barrier to entry for newer hobbyists who might not to take the risk. For the ones already in the hobby, it's a reason to get out. Haha. After reading Ronnie and your posts on Killifish, I would say both the Killifish and Wild Betta scenes here face the same sort of situation. Of course, I must admit that Killie keepers probably have it harder with most species coming from the West. Wild bettas are more of an Asian thing, centered in our neighbouring countries Indonesia and Malaysia.

----------


## Emokidz

> Guess we all know the channodes buddy haha.


Eh... I think so too! Hahaha!

----------


## stormhawk

Yup. It's harder for us when the eggs and fish we want are concentrated in Europe and the US, with the US hobbyists least keen to share them. I wish you the best of luck in your attempts to get the Ayer Hitam strain. I just passed by Muar and Ayer Hitam recently. From what I see, the oil palm plantations have expanded. I guess the future is bleak for these persephone in the wild.

By the way, have you tried miniopinna yet?

----------


## Emokidz

Thanks Jianyang, nope I haven't seen or heard any news about Betta miniopinna, sadly. A few online accounts record successful collection of the species in Bintan, though not in high numbers. These include the NUS zoological department's academic reports, IBC, the team aquaholic expedition and other independent accounts. All these recounts and reports date back to 2005 or earlier, however. In fact, I haven't been able to find much news (or any for that matter... Haha!) on this elusive betta. IMO, chances the species will appear among our hobbyists remains bleak -- Unless news about their availability happens to come about. 

I did however chance upon a small online business that deals with these fish. They seem to only ship in bulk (eg. 20 pairs) and prices are quite steep. Their last update was in 2007 though. 

If the opportunity does arrive however, I'll definitely want to get my hands on them. Them and Parosphromenus tweediei -- the super-adorable liquorice gourami!

----------


## Emokidz

Just an update on the persephone fry, they are slightly larger than ANN fry and doing fine now in the free-swimming stage. Counted about slightly more than 20 before they left the nest. Will be updating as it goes along. 

Will try to get some pictures up to share.

----------


## johannes

> Hi Johannes, thanks! Yup I'm planning to leave them in with the parents. Do you separate the parents at any time or just leave them in the tank undisturbed to do their thing?
> I've read your previous posts too on breeding B. persephone, very inspiring!


Hi Bernard, i do not separate the parents. They can live peacefully with the fry. The thing is when the fry gets a little to big, they will stop spawning. And anyway too many fry in the breeding tank also increases bioload, so i think max would be 20-40. Once you have reached such number, wait for the fry to be arouond 1-1.5 cm and do the transfer to grow out tank.

----------


## Emokidz

Thanks Johannes, I still got a lot to learn from all of you haha. Right now the fry are feeding on live daphnia and infusoria. Only see a few around the place, rest probably hiding among the salvanias. They are so you that the parents and older spawn could easily eat them during snack time. Haha! So beautiful, yet peaceful. Great fish!

----------


## Emokidz

Some updates on the persephone pair, the first batch of 3 fry have grown till about 2.5cm and are starting to colour up.

DSC04874.jpg
DSC04881.jpg

Some pictures of the father in action, flaring.
DSC04848.jpg
DSC04844.jpg
DSC04802.jpg

----------


## Emokidz

And here is the batch of fry I updated on earlier (38 days old, the first batch is 56 days). They are kept in a different tank with moss and a KTP leaf to grow out. So far, zero mortality with bi-weekly partial water changes. The 20-odd of them are about 0.8 - 1cm big.
DSC04887.jpg
DSC04870.jpg
DSC04864.jpg

Thanks for viewing!

----------


## Mudskipper

Very nice!! They do grow fast, huh? My stupid Channoides only about 1.5 cm, some are bigger and some smaller. Plus I now have 3 other batches...one batch is a week old and the other two a day old. *sigh*

----------


## Emokidz

Yup, same goes for my pers fry. Some grow much faster than the others. About 2 to 3 times bigger! I remove the bugger fry to another tank. The smaller ones start growing better after that. Once they are large enough, tubifex is the best diet IMO. I supplement it with bbs and daphnia as well as hikari first bites and frozen foods.

----------


## Mudskipper

I've been feeding boon daily...they can now eat the small sized bloodworms so I've been feeding that. Every week, two or three times a week, they get live brine shrimp which they just go nuts over. I did split them into two tanks...now the smaller ones are catching up in size. It's really interesting, but overwhelming to have five tanks of fries going at a time. Not sure where to put them all...maybe gotta get another rack.

----------


## Emokidz

Haha! I get what you mean. Perhaps you should separate te parents permanently to prevet another batch. Since you probably don't want so many fries from the same few parents too. plus with the Uninacs coming in, better to stop chan IDE production haha!

----------


## Mudskipper

Parents are in different tanks already. No more...no more. I think I will be putting the unimacs in the community tank for now. No space lah.

----------


## Emokidz

Yup, I think that putting them apart is better to prevent too many babies. Hope the Unimacs will be fine in the community tank..

----------


## oddstamp

Congrats on your spawn! some nicely taken pictures too

----------


## Emokidz

Thank you! They are currently doing well too. Will uodate with more pictures when they grow more.

----------


## Mudskipper

I can't wait to see them colour up. I bet the look amazing!!

----------


## johannes

nice updates on the fries...  :Smile:

----------


## 12end

Congrats on the fries! thanks for sharing~

----------


## dragonn

4.5 - 5.5 pH is really low, do they live in that pH in their natural environment?

----------


## Emokidz

Thanks all for the encouraging responses!

----------


## Shi Xuan

> 4.5 - 5.5 pH is really low, do they live in that pH in their natural environment?


Yes, the PH of betta persephone's natural habitat ranges from 5.0 - 5.5, sometimes lesser. Somehow, fishes that thrive in low PH environment when changed to an environment with higher PH may have immunity problems because there's a certain range of PH which bacteria can thrive & which these fishes may have no immunity against. 

regards,
Shi Xuan

----------


## Emokidz

Yup, some how temperature and pH must be kept low. Or they tend to be restless, get clamped fins or get more susceptible to dacteria/fungus attacks.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Hi Bernard,

You have very good taste, betta persephone is a pretty species, just like the others of the betta coccina complex & I'm very fond of all of them, including the albimarginata complex as well. Keep them well, I think they won't be a common sight in the wild not long from now. If tank space or time miraculously appear, I would probably attempt these bubblenesters. Anyway, it would be great if you have photos of their fry. 

regards,
Shi Xuan

----------


## Emokidz

Thank you Shi Xuan. Yes, the coccina complex are my favourite complex for wild bettas. So small, yet so beautiful.

----------


## Emokidz

Hi Everyone,

Just to update on the persephone fries. There are about 27 of them, all currently at least 15 weeks old (about 4 months), some older from the first batch of 3.. All is well, not a single casualty!  :Smile: 

Currently split them up into groups of 5 or slightly more. Still waiting for them to grow out a bit more and get their full colours. Will be pairing them up at 6 months, if I have the time...  :Embarassed: 

Here are some pictures on how they have grown. Do enjoy (it wasn't easy taking them  :Knockout: ):


Probably one of my best shots. They just don't really keep still!


Two males (i think?) flaring...




Some other shot of them swimming round after meal time.


Finally, their humble home...

----------


## similus

Hi Bernard,

I am ready to absorb some if you want to let go. :Smile: 

Cheers

Rick.

----------


## Luc Tango

beautiful! If you don't have the time, I'm sure there are a crap load of hobbyist who are willing to take this precious gems in.  :Wink:

----------


## Mudskipper

Gorgeous, Bernard. Nice to see that they're growing well. My channoides fries have coloured up and are almost ready to go too. Wish I could get some photos butt he water is so dark from the ketapang that I can't even see them sometimes. LOL!

----------


## royss78

Hi Bernard! Do let me know if you want to let go of some. I've been looking for it for quite a while. I can come in to Singapore anytime. Just let me know. Thanks!  :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

> Gorgeous, Bernard. Nice to see that they're growing well. My channoides fries have coloured up and are almost ready to go too. Wish I could get some photos butt he water is so dark from the ketapang that I can't even see them sometimes. LOL!


Haha! Oh you keep them in Ketapang water? I kind of raised my fry in clear water form the start, so they are fine with it. The pH is 5.5 though, from my main planted tank. They are used to cooler temperatures about 26-29 deg and no lights over their tanks, which they seem to like. All the fry take atison pellets and micropellets readily - which makes feeding infinitely more convenient! Frozen / Live food is given as a treat once in a while. Haha. I bet the channoide fry look really cute!

----------


## Emokidz

> beautiful! If you don't have the time, I'm sure there are a crap load of hobbyist who are willing to take this precious gems in.


Haha! Thanks for the compliment!  :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

> Hi Bernard,
> 
> I am ready to absorb some if you want to let go.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rick.





> Hi Bernard! Do let me know if you want to let go of some. I've been looking for it for quite a while. I can come in to Singapore anytime. Just let me know. Thanks!


Hello guys, I'll be nursing them up for awhile longer to be able to pair them up so that I can release them in pairs. Will probably be putting a few pairs (depending on gender ratio) up for sale in the market thread though. Will update more here!  :Smile:

----------


## Mudskipper

> Haha! Oh you keep them in Ketapang water? I kind of raised my fry in clear water form the start, so they are fine with it. The pH is 5.5 though, from my main planted tank. They are used to cooler temperatures about 26-29 deg and no lights over their tanks, which they seem to like. All the fry take atison pellets and micropellets readily - which makes feeding infinitely more convenient! Frozen / Live food is given as a treat once in a while. Haha. I bet the channoide fry look really cute!


I use aged water with ketapang for one water change and clear aged water for the next...alternating all the time. No lights either and my rack is on the balcony so the temperature is whatever it is daily. Interestingly enough they will take some JBL bits every now and then but prefer frozen and live food. I admit that I spoil my fishes and buy live brine every week if I get the chance, they love to chase them around and attack. They are really cute, about two thirds the size of the parents now but already fully coloured up and I've started pairing some males and females from one batch with mates from another batch. The parents were about this size or slightly bigger when they bred so they should be ready soon. 

Not going to breed the parents for a while though...got another two batches growing out. Haiz...still in boon hell.

----------


## royss78

> Hello guys, I'll be nursing them up for awhile longer to be able to pair them up so that I can release them in pairs. Will probably be putting a few pairs (depending on gender ratio) up for sale in the market thread though. Will update more here!


Ok Bro, will wait for your updates. Thanks again!  :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

Haha! I feed my fish boon and brine once in a while too. But I make their staple pellets. Managed to train the adult coccinas from y618 totals atison pellets readily! Lol! Chan life's seem to be more stubborn though!

----------


## royss78

> Yup. It's harder for us when the eggs and fish we want are concentrated in Europe and the US, with the US hobbyists least keen to share them. I wish you the best of luck in your attempts to get the Ayer Hitam strain. I just passed by Muar and Ayer Hitam recently. From what I see, the oil palm plantations have expanded. I guess the future is bleak for these persephone in the wild.
> 
> By the way, have you tried miniopinna yet?


Yeah, I totally agree with you mate! I'm from JB and the wild betta scene here is really not exciting... given enough time it will be non-existent. 

From the information that I've gathered in the last 3 months working together with the villagers from the surrounding kampungs... there are sightings of the persephone outside of the original two places. The Muar strain is usually found in the area of Pagoh sub-district but there are new sightings in Tangkak enroute to the town of Jementah in Segamat. The Ayer Hitam strain on the other hand is found quite close to the Ayer Hitam town but there are sightings of it in a palm oil plantation on the road to Yong Peng.

I'll be checking these places out soon so hopefully these reports are true. If it is, then there might be some glimmer of hope for this beautiful fishes. Hope to report some good news after my trip there.  :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

That's really cool! I wish I were able to travel around too to look for them! Sounds like an adventure. Haha.

----------


## royss78

> That's really cool! I wish I were able to travel around too to look for them! Sounds like an adventure. Haha.


You're most welcome to join me whenever I go on my trips. Johor and Singapore very near so is very convenient.  :Wink:

----------


## Emokidz

Would certainly love to try! Haha!  :Grin:

----------


## royss78

> Would certainly love to try! Haha!


I'm going tomorrow with bro blurless to the pond I discovered near my house in JB... after that we will go to another spot in the small town of Pontian some 70km away from JB if the weather permits. If you can make it do let me know if not we can always do it another time.  :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

Haha. Probably some other time! Busy with school work over this weekend! Ahhhh :Knockout:

----------


## greatwallmanitou

> Yup. It's harder for us when the eggs and fish we want are concentrated in Europe and the US, with the US hobbyists least keen to share them. I wish you the best of luck in your attempts to get the Ayer Hitam strain. I just passed by Muar and Ayer Hitam recently. From what I see, the oil palm plantations have expanded. I guess the future is bleak for these persephone in the wild.
> 
> By the way, have you tried miniopinna yet?


Rashid-Jianyang I tried to PM/email you but your profile doesn't allow it. Please PM or email me so that I can contact you regarding your quote above. Thanks

----------


## greatwallmanitou

> Yeah, I totally agree with you mate! I'm from JB and the wild betta scene here is really not exciting... given enough time it will be non-existent. 
> 
> From the information that I've gathered in the last 3 months working together with the villagers from the surrounding kampungs... there are sightings of the persephone outside of the original two places. The Muar strain is usually found in the area of Pagoh sub-district but there are new sightings in Tangkak enroute to the town of Jementah in Segamat. The Ayer Hitam strain on the other hand is found quite close to the Ayer Hitam town but there are sightings of it in a palm oil plantation on the road to Yong Peng.
> 
> I'll be checking these places out soon so hopefully these reports are true. If it is, then there might be some glimmer of hope for this beautiful fishes. Hope to report some good news after my trip there.


Roy I PM'ed you. Did you receive it?

----------


## royss78

> Roy I PM'ed you. Did you receive it?


Didn't get your PM mate... can you try again or just post it here I will check. Thanks!  :Smile:

----------


## Johora

> You're most welcome to join me whenever I go on my trips. Johor and Singapore very near so is very convenient.


I would love to go too. Have sent you an email regarding it.

----------


## greatwallmanitou

> Didn't get your PM mate... can you try again or just post it here I will check. Thanks!


StormHawk wrote: "... eggs and fish we want are concentrated in Europe and the US, with the US hobbyists least keen to share them..." and then you replied to him: "Yeah, I totally agree with you mate!"

What species of US eggs/fish are you keen on?

----------


## royss78

> StormHawk wrote: "... eggs and fish we want are concentrated in Europe and the US, with the US hobbyists least keen to share them..." and then you replied to him: "Yeah, I totally agree with you mate!"
> 
> What species of US eggs/fish are you keen on?


Hey Bro, what I meant is that I agree with StormHawk that the betta scene in Malaysia is not that happening also... I was referring to bettas... sorry for the miscommunication.  :Razz:

----------


## Johora

Thanks for the pair, pardon the dirty glass.

----------


## kenny

Nice pics!

----------


## Emokidz

> Thanks for the pair, pardon the dirty glass.


Nice photography and detail! The set up and fish look really good. Do you house them alone? I'm really glad the pair found a good home : )
Their colours will definitely intensify as they settle down.

----------


## Emokidz

> Nice pics!


Haha! Yes they are. They are from the same batch of F1s as the ones you'll be receiving tomorrow.  :Smile:

----------


## Johora

Yes they are housed alone. Still settling in as I've been rearranging the tank abit.

----------


## Emokidz

Haha that's great! Good to know that they're doing well. And how did you do the black background photo? I'm kind of a photoshop noob, but it looks great.

----------


## Johora

The original background was awful, so I just drew around it with photoshop. I am using a very good lens, hence the decent pics.

----------


## Emokidz

Ohhh, the new black background makes it look more professional - like in a magazine. Do keep us updated on your persephone! Hope they do great for you.

----------


## Emokidz

As of today, 6 pairs have found their way to new homes, with 2 more pairs pending collection by royss78. Let's hope they breed and that this species finds its way back to the hobby. WIll try to pair the remainding lot up for breeding. 

Meanwhile, a few spawnings have occurred among the persephone youths, mostly having fungussed eggs. Only managed to get 1 fry out of the 3-4 spawns! I'm guessing that its because they are still young, being 5+ months of age. 
The uberis and channoides fry are doing fine though - gorging themselves silly on daphnia which takes me an hour to get every alternate day -_-"
Should really try to ween them onto tetrabits and hikari micropellets soon before they get too used to the good life.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Another alternative for those endless trips for daphnia would be hatching bbs eggs if you haven't attempted it before. All you need is a big can of eggs stored in fridge & rigged with 2 hatcheries, provides sufficient food for your fry everyday.

----------


## Emokidz

I'll definitely do that when I get my own place. Don't think my parents will approve of a bubbling hatchery!  :Sad: 
But I'll definitely set up a fish corner in my study once I get my own place. Haha. Few years from now.  :Very Happy:

----------


## Shi Xuan

Hopefully, you can get to have your "corner" soon. Perhaps patience is the key & I hope to see more of your exciting endeavors in wild betta species. Good luck!  :Smile:

----------


## Mudskipper

Corner? Bernard, I think you'll end up with a fish "room". Hahaha. But I don't think that's so bad, do you?

----------


## Emokidz

I would actually like that haha. Provided there's enough space, of course. But I would like to have it in my study room where I'll do my own work too. :P

----------


## johannes

Hi Bernard, you can actually freeze your own daphnia. You will get cleaner daphnias than buying Hikari frozen daphnias.
You can freeze them using empty bloodworm cubes, i think bro Mudskipper and 900801 has followed my method before and it works.
This way you can actually reduce your daphnia trips to once or twice a month depending on your usage.
If you are interested you can pm/sms/call me and i will teach you on how to do it.

----------


## Emokidz

Haha. Thanks Johannes. I'll try that when I come back from shanghai. Leaving for holiday tomorrow.

----------


## Mudskipper

Hope you had fun in Shanghai. Johannes' method works amazingly well!!! It has saved me many times...that's why he's my guru.

----------


## Emokidz

Haha! Yup, will definitely try freezing them - that is, if I dont get frozen first myself. Temperature here is about 4 degrees, worst with wind. Haha. Will be coming back before the new year.

----------


## Emokidz

Yup tried Johannes' method and it works like a charm. Have been using it for the past 2 weeks and my fish seem to love it. Haha!

----------


## Emokidz

The persephone F1s which you've all seen since fry here have all matured and have started spawning. After 5 unsuccessful spawns (egg eating and fungus), I decided to hatch the eggs artificilaly about a week ago after my F1 pair spanwed by removing the eggs from the breeding tank and placing them in a small plastic pet carrier, added 2 drops of malachite green to the water (about 3 cm high). Of the 30 eggs laid, 10 survived to become fry - the highest yield I've had since the F1s were spawned themselves. The F2s are presently growing them out in a tub full of infusoria. 

The F1 pair spawned again yesterday and I've since removed the eggs. Hope there's about the same number who make it...

----------


## darylets

congrats on the spawn.. nice pics as well. Yeap its a pity that the hobby is growing smaller, hopefully it will pick up or else it may just die out =(

----------


## Emokidz

True that. The wild betta scene here is almost gone, with oby a handfull of people still keeping them. Of the few, not many focus on the same complexes too. So it makes exchanges all the more hard. Getting the fishes here is also inconvenient for most - probably why the scene has dimished so greatly.

----------


## stormhawk

> What species of US eggs/fish are you keen on?


Hi there, I totally missed this post. I am keen on South American Annuals but lately, Aquabid is dead. I use to get eggs from Roger Brousseau but he doesn't seem to be active anymore. 

Sorry for off-topic.
-------
On-topic: A friend of mine in Malaysia is trying to get wild bettas. Bernard, Johannes, do you guys know what is being kept locally? Aside from the ones already shown in the thread.

----------


## Emokidz

Yup, not all though, but you can refer to the thread under 'what wilds do you keep?'
Quite a wide range of complexes among various formers.

In addition, there are: pallifina, spilogena.

----------


## stormhawk

Spilotogena is present too? I bet the list must be extensive. I think next Aquarama I should ask him to come down, so he can visit the BCS booth.

----------


## Emokidz

More than half a year since their birth, paring up and seeing some of their brothers and sisters move out to a few other hobbyists, these are the F1s who have almost fully coloured up and become sexually mature. 










Hopefully these F1s will continue the line and last for a long time to come.  :Smile:

----------


## Mudskipper

Very nice pics, Bernard. Keep it up!!

----------


## Emokidz

Thanks Kelvin!

@SX: yes, youre right. These are from muar. no difference in phenotypes which I can observe with the naked eye. The pelvic fins, though red now, will eventually turn dark blue-black when they get older.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Bernard, I have never seen the subtle green on the body that can be easily captured by a camera. They are usually drab brown from the photos I have seen so far. I think this should be the "Muar" type locality right? Is there any slight variations in comparison with the "Ayer Hitam" phenotypically, from what you observe? 

I'm really looking forward to see tankfuls of Betta persephone this coming weekend! :Grin:

----------


## Shi Xuan

> Thanks Kelvin!
> 
> @SX: yes, youre right. These are from muar. no difference in phenotypes which I can observe with the naked eye. The pelvic fins, though red now, will eventually turn dark blue-black when they get older.


Betta persephone is a relatively unique species of the coccina complex. Generally black and the only distinct trait they share with other member species should be the red pelvic fins. I remembered reading about them exhibiting some form of family hood, whereby older fry tend to be defensive for their younger siblings. In any case, they ought to be maintained well in captivity because of their dismal future in the wild. 

I would like to attempt them, despite an upsetting experience with an all male Betta coccina previously, given their diminutive size and color. Indeed, Coccina complex has a lot of drop-dead gorgeous species I would like to keep too. If Betta miniopinna had been more readily available as well, I suppose that would make an interesting addition.

----------


## Mudskipper

> Betta persephone is a relatively unique species of the coccina complex. Generally black and the only distinct trait they share with other member species should be the red pelvic fins. I remembered reading about them exhibiting some form of family hood, whereby older fry tend to be defensive for their younger siblings. In any case, they ought to be maintained well in captivity because of their dismal future in the wild. 
> 
> I would like to attempt them, despite an upsetting experience with an all male Betta coccina previously, given their diminutive size and color. Indeed, Coccina complex has a lot of drop-dead gorgeous species I would like to keep too. If Betta miniopinna had been more readily available as well, I suppose that would make an interesting addition.


Sorry to stray from the topic, but what is that bird in your Avatar? Beautiful...looks like it could be a Lady Gouldian? Or a tanager of some sort?

----------


## Shi Xuan

Kevin, it's a Southern masked weaver bird (_Ploceus velatus_), also known as African masked weaver, as the name suggest, endermic to Southern Africa, never seen one in my life but I have seen it's relative species, the Baya weaver (_Ploceus philippinus_), weaving a nest out of grass and drinking straws :Laughing: , at the backyard of my house. They lay the eggs in small clutches and are relatively small in size, measuring between 3cm - 4cm in diameter, fairly large for such a tiny bird. 

Unfortunately, the parents only managed to hatch and raise their 1st brood because the 2nd brood was raided by some Eurasian tree sparrow, which took residence in their nest and killed all the chicks in it. After that, I never see anymore Baya weavers and as for the remnants of their nest, I think my mum removed it because she thinks it's unsightly. 

I think the trick to see one such bird reside within your premises, is to have a hook, meant for bird cages attached to the ceiling outdoor and if your neighbor happens to be a plant fanatic, then perhaps, there will be an opportunity for that.

In my case, I think I'm very lucky because there are many species of birds to observe around my area, especially during dawn and evening. 

As for the suggested Lady gouldian and Tanager, they are really breathtaking beauties, only rivaled by the birds of paradise in term of appearance, IMO.

-Sorry for going off-topic :Knockout:

----------


## Shi Xuan

A big thank you to Bernard, for these beautiful fishes. Jianyang aka stormhawk saw them today when I was at GC and he believes they might be males though. :Grin:  :Razz:  Anyway, I think they should be a reverse trio from what I can tell and I'm going to keep them in a setup similar to the way Ronnie keeps his Pseudoepiplatys annulatus;
http://www.killies.com/forum/albums/ANN/ANN_raising.jpg

The only difference though, would be a cover for these skittish jumpers. :Opps:

----------


## Emokidz

Glad you like them! I hope they do well. I'm quite sure that the one we singled out is a female, the other two have a male in between them. Just not sure of the third. Haha. Do update me if you find out though! That set up would be alright. In fact, a lower water level would be good so that the air above the water surface is kept moist.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Bernard, if you are reading this, I think the trio spawned, either pair, I'm not too sure. I noticed one of them residing in the film canister though and there's some eggs in the bubblenest, I think.

No photos as promised for now as I don't want to disturb them. The thought of having one jumped out the other day while I was transferring the trio, still send shivers down my spine. :Opps:  

In any case, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :Anxious:

----------


## Emokidz

That's nice. I hope the eggs are fertile. Do update us! At least now we know that there's a compatible pair among the 3. The male will reside in the cannister, while the thinner of the 2 elsewhere in the tank should be the mother.

----------


## Shi Xuan

I'm anticipating any bit of wriggling when the day arrives, for whatever it takes :Laughing:  although it's a far cry from now. :Grin:  I've even got a cultured jar of infusoria/green water standing by, should any fry make it to the free-swimming stage. 

As for the Betta channoides, the male is reaching the end of it's term. I've had the tank planted densely with Java fern, moss and Bolbitis heudelotii, and a generous layer of well-boiled peat spread over the bottom of the tank, in case the parents decided to go for an easy lunch instead. :Opps:

----------


## Emokidz

Haha that's great. For high survival (and almost zero mortality), remove the male once he releases and nurse the channoides fry seaprate from their parents. Persephone fry can grow up alongside their parents from what I've experienced. I hope the persephone eggs hatch on your side with that pair, since I haven't tried that pair out yet. My side's not really productive. Many spawns but all fungussed. The eggs you saw that day are already flushed down the toilet. Haha. The pair on the left should be spawning soon again, huge bubble nest. Not really expecting anything though.

----------


## Shi Xuan

I haven't observed the nest in the film canister carefully, so for the claim of the eggs, I'm hesitant to acknowledge there's indeed any, without unsettling the trio but I can't reject the likelihood as well. Very shy betta, compared to the B.channoides, which is getting used to my presence. 

Betta persephone's habitat has a very soft water composition and so, I've added a generous dosage of peat extract I had, from boiling the peat which I'm intending to use for the N.kilomberoensis. 

If you haven't try any peat, I'd reckon it. Softens the water and aids in retarding bacterial growth because of it's acidic property. Some killikeepers I've read or know of use the extract for incubating non-annual killi eggs and it's good. Besides, Betta hails from habitats similar to some killies, like Rivulus sp., and I'd thought this natural tonic might be a good alternative for breeding your bubblenesters. :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

Thanks Shi Xuan. I will definitely give that a try. Which type of peat do you use by the way? I see Aquastar selling packets of dry peat moss. Is that the right type?

----------


## Shi Xuan

I'm using peat moss sold under the brand, Horti, which I bought at the Clementi NTUC outlet. I have never seen Aquastar dry peat moss before, so I can't help you but since there's a plant nursery near Kovan MRT Station, I think it would be convenient for you to get there instead and boil the peat well before using.

----------


## RonWill

> Which type of peat do you use by the way?


 Ben, Horti or Sera pond peat pellets will do fine, as will ketapang leaves. Load up a take-away tub of the media, add water almost to the brim and zap the tub in a microwave. 8mins on high setting. For a thicker brew, zap it twice. Then bench cool and store in fridge. Use as required.

Shi Xuan, danged... have you been digging into the archives? That ANN-E tub was labelled 050202 (2nd Feb 2005!!). Has it been that long???

Your trio will do great ok in that setup. Punch a few holes (with the soldering iron) into the matching lid. Works a treat for the _B. simplex_ (Type 1, I think, from Nonn) that I kept many moons ago.

----------


## stormhawk

If you buy the Horti stuff, make sure it's called Jiffy Peat Pellets. The peat that comes from those compacted pellets is very fine in texture, so you better have a very fine mesh bag handy.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Peat is a good alternative and convenient for me in relative to ketapang leaves. :Smile:  I prefer keeping Betta sp. in dark tanks, that said, a combination of peat and ketapang leaves gives me the best result.

I'm glad to mention, the old killies archives has been very resourceful, at least to me and it's worth every effort, going through the pages and maybe envy those days when I was not there yet. :Embarassed:

----------


## Emokidz

Haha. Sounds manageable! I never thought it could be done using the microwave though. Very neat trick. Will try it out soon!

----------


## Shi Xuan

> Haha. Sounds manageable! I never thought it could be done using the microwave though. Very neat trick. Will try it out soon!


You bet they are! I don't have the luxury of a microwave, so I use the oven and re-used my army mesh tin to heat up the peat, less hassle from my mum than to use her kitchen utensils. :Laughing:

----------


## Emokidz

It's always good to know that I don't have to use my mom's saucepan to extract and reduce the mixture - and risk getting a mouthful for it!  :Grin:

----------


## Emokidz

Also, thanks Jianyang and Ronnie for the tips on peat. Will update once I try it out. Haha.

----------


## stormhawk

If you want to save yourself the whole trouble with boiling and bagging peat, might as well use Sera Peat or Eheim Ehfitorf/Torf Pellets in filter bags.  :Wink:

----------


## Shi Xuan

Alas, the Betta persephone's eagerness to spawn seems to have died down, can't explain the reason, as the male neglected the nest. :Sad:  I think I'm going to attempt spawning them again once I've got a new GEX Five plan 12L tank ready. :Cool: 

On the other hand, Bernard, there's more than 40 fry because after I return home from my lesson, I found another 6 more in the plastic critter tank. There could be more but I think it's more than I can handle. I have separated the fry into two containers in case I lost em' all and it's time to rig up the BBS bottles once again. :Grin: 

P.S 
The pair spawned on 280111 and fry released on 090211, so it takes 12 days. Relatively fast in relation to our local temperature.

----------


## Emokidz

Haha. That's really great news. Im not sure how that male does it, holding so many wriggling fry. Simply amazing. I hope they continue to stay healthy though. Probably can let him retire to a good life.

As for the persephone, it happens. The spawnings may be triggered by many factors and the ceasing of one could stop the process. I guessing that it's because of the warm weather we've been having these few days.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Yes, most fish spawning are somehow related to the temperature. I find that fishes spawn more readily during the monsoon season, which applies to Cory. 

If the B.persephone is so stubborn, I'm going to move them somewhere cooler. They are currently in my study room but it's hot there, except during the monsoon season, when the temperature drops by a degree or two. Good side is, it receives a lot of sunlight throughout the year. :Smile:

----------


## Shi Xuan

Curiosity got the better of me and I decided to check on the Betta persephone, and noticed a pair residing in the film canister. I believe one of them might be the female you singled out that day. The other one is hiding away under a piece of leaf, only coming out to snap at the artemia nauplii and grindal worms I fed them, just like an eel. This should be the less dominant one, because I can see some slight fin damages, nothing serious, perhaps hiding away to nurse it's pride. :Razz: 

It's time I'm going to get a tank tomorrow and set it up like yours, which I think is highly efficient and space saving for keeping small betta species. It's a very good idea from what I can tell. :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

Haha, a permanent set up is usually the best. With low bioload and proper water management, it's almost maintenance free!

----------


## Shi Xuan

A permanent set up doesn't seem feasible, at least for bubblenesters. I think it's my mistake. They could have spawned and I didn't remove the canister but now, I think I know better. :Cool: 

I'll move the betta sp., including the adult channoides to their new home, when I get a new tank for them tomorrow. :Smug:

----------


## Emokidz

A few weeks ago, I separated 2 persephone pairs into a partitioned 1 feet gex tank - to be reserved for a buyer. Fortunately or unfortunately, the person never got back to me. Since then, they've stayed in my tank and have been happily eating. To my surprise, the past few days of heavy rain have somehow triggered one the pairs to spawn. And this time, I was lucky enough to witness the wrapping process - with my camera, of course.  :Grin: 

Everything starting with a bubblenest - a sign of an upcoming spawn.

Welcoming her in.

The wrap.


The father picking up the eggs.

And after all the action, she takes her leave...

...and dumps all the dirty work to him. Typical.  :Knockout:

----------


## Shi Xuan

Bernard, looking at all the updates and you have a lot of success with them. I tried all the methods to trigger them to spawn but it's always the same. The male builds the nest but no spawning occur. I'm starting to guess if the trio is an all male gang??

----------


## Emokidz

Hi SX, not likely I think. For a male to build a bubblenest, there has to be a female in the gang. At least that's what I've noticed so far with this species. If you're free, you could pop by some time the week after next (now's my exam period till Friday next week) with them and we can have a look and see how we can pair them up. Btw, what's the temperature you keep them at?

----------


## Shi Xuan

> For a male to build a bubblenest, there has to be a female in the gang.


Frankly, that's what I really wanted to hear. :Grin:  Perhaps, you are right. My room temperature has never been cool but it's different when it rains and the temperature drops by 1-2°C. My water is soft and acidic, so this shouldn't be a problem. 

The trio doesn't really like grindals, likewise for the other fishes I have and I believe this could be the reason. I will have to start feeding them tubifex worms soon if I ever want eggs. 

I must admit, this is a difficult species but beautiful.

----------


## Emokidz

It's possible that it is entirely temperature driven too. I've kept them at 24 deg for the past 3 days using the aircon set at 23 all night. My intention was to induce the foerschi pair and try my luck with them - then these guys got in the mood. The foerschi pair still remains uninterested... I get what you mean though. My brownorums and lividas just sit around the whole day and dont do anything despite my efforts to lower temp, feed live foods, introduce peat granules, lower pH and make water soft.

Also, it could be that the reverse trio I gave you isn't compatible. We can try to mix and match to find a compatible pair. Though I never thought them to be so fussy.

----------


## Shi Xuan

I think the male is doing ok but the female might not be in breeding mood. I'll change their diet and see if it works. I have this gut feeling I'm not working hard enough on them. :Opps:

----------


## Emokidz

You can also try splitting them up for a week or two and re-introducing them. And they do better in pairs from what I've seen so far.

----------


## Shi Xuan

I'll try to go about their diet first. I'll split them up if the result is the same. :Sad:

----------


## RonWill

> ...this is a difficult species but beautiful.


 _B. persephone_ is no more difficult than B. macrostoma, unimaculata or _B. simplex_ Type II from Nonn in 2004.

Breeders need better conditioning and your trio arrangement will not work like killifishes.

----------


## Shi Xuan

> Breeders need better conditioning and your trio arrangement will not work like killifishes.


Yes, the trio is a problem here, especially for betta. I got them together and has been keeping them in a large container ever since. A reason I didn't separate them is that, the sub-dominant male is always hiding away. The only fishes I noticed most of the time, is the pair. I'll do what's necessary and see if it works better this time. :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

Yup, perhaps keeping them in a pair would work better. The pairs that bred so far for me, have always been by themselves. I've never had much luck with the other half of the tank where i keep a group of 7 mixed genders. Spawning is always disrupted - or eggs eaten.

----------


## Emokidz

Finally, A viable spawn! The eggs have hatched over the past few hours and the wrigglers are out and hanging in the nest now. Daddy is currently tending to them. I guess this is one of the most rewarding part of keeping any species of fish... Then reality sets in and the daphnia runs begin.. Not to mention the setting up of yet another grow-out tub  :Embarassed: 
I need more space!  :Knockout:

----------


## Emokidz

Some pictures:






Can't really get clear shots as the tank is very dark and there's a lot of reflection from the glass at this angle.
From the pictures, I'm guessing there should be about 20 fry. So this was a good spawn.

----------


## Emokidz

On a side note, I just got a trio of Pseudomugil sp. 'Red Neon' and I'm just fascinated with them. Probably my thing for little fish with blue sparkly eyes...



Male

Female

----------


## Shi Xuan

That's good. Your Betta persephone is getting more prolific or is it just that pair? Nice Pseudomugil sp Red Neon. I guess they are easy fishes to spawn. Pop in a spawning mop and you should see eggs very soon.

----------


## Emokidz

I guess it should be all of them since the parents displayed the same characteristics too. They don't eat their eggs or fry either. Then again, individuals may vary in terms of character and we won't knoe unless we actually try it out and witness what they do. 

As for the neon reds I'll just try to keep them alive and fatten them up first. But it would be nice to have a larger group for my planted tank. Worth a try... after the exams. Haha.

----------


## Shi Xuan

Yes, it would be breathtaking to have them in a planted tank. I have a lot of Oryzias woworae fry now and I'm going to stop the pair from spawning. 

I noticed that the single Betta persephone I singled out yesterday, has built a bubblenest in the container. My guess is, both males are ready even without a female. :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

Oh try putting the female into that tub with him.

----------


## Emokidz

Coming back to this thread (some 2 years after it was first penned), I read it once again with much joy looking back at the entire course of maintaining this species. Over the course of the last 2 years, both my muar and ayer hitam strains have not been prolific and most of the initial spawn have since grown up, been passed to other hobbyists, 
or still swim (though much older and larger than their parents were) in a tank I still keep. Within this time, the results of my breeding attempts for them have been extremely poor to say the least.

After the past year of reapeated attemts, unsuccessful tries, failed spawns, and fungussed eggs - and - Just when all hope to revive the line seemed lost, I came home from work last week to chance upon a very pleasant surprise. A small bubble nest floating in 5cm of water in a 15cm by 15cm tank, home to a pair of Betta persephone sp. 'Ayer Hitam' no larger than 3.5cm each - the male an F2 from the fish I got from Hermanus and female from a good friend's F1 spawn (1cm large when i received it almost a year ago). With a very healthy spawn of 35 fry, the jewel of Ayer Hitam and the line will continue to endure here in sunny Singapore! Though I can't say the same for the Muar line, I am still very ecstatic about the spawn and will once again get the great chance to watch these small and pretty fish grow up from egg and fry.

The fry are free swimming now and are feeding off vinegar eels daily and daphnia on weekends. I separated them from the parents just to be safe.

Pictures to come soon!

----------


## Shi Xuan

I'm so happy to hear that. Very inspiring indeed. It's always nice to see fry again and that's the best part of keeping betta.

----------


## similus

Bro Emokidz congrats! I had been looking around for B Persephone but without success. I will be glad to purchase from you if you are willing to part some of your precious juveniles later. :Grin: 


Just got crazy about the wild bettas again!  :Smile:

----------


## Emokidz

> I'm so happy to hear that. Very inspiring indeed. It's always nice to see fry again and that's the best part of keeping betta.


Thanks Shi Xuan. It is indeed the most rewarding part of the hobby. Watching the eggs hatch, hanging fry become free swimming and grow up over time to attain their full beauty. 
In the case of Betta persephone, the initial red caudal fin turns slowly into translucent blue - and then to a solid shade of sky blue. While the body changes from red to deep bluish-black.

Pictures of the transition from my fry two years ago:

Building the nest..


The embrace..



The eggs..


Tiny fry and Dad..



Tiny guppy fry-sized persephone



Growing out on Tubi


Red juveniles..


The red going off and turning into blue...



Full blue..


And fully grown..

----------


## TanCH

Nice betta you have there! And superb pictures! Thanks for sharing!

----------


## Emokidz

Thanks! My pleasure  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Congratulations again Bernard. Bubblenesters really love you.  :Laughing: 

Now trying my hand at a pair of albimarginata.

----------


## similus

Good old film canister! Will look for one for my b uberis. So far no luck with bubblenester.

----------


## Shi Xuan

> Good old film canister! Will look for one for my b uberis. So far no luck with bubblenester.


Those small plastic flowerpots sold at Nurseries will work just fine too. 

It comes down to luck. I think if your fish are willing to spawn, they will do it no matter how you try. That's also the reason why it's more preferable to buy a few pairs of a species. Helps to increase the chances of a successful spawn.

I'm also keeping uberis. You can see them here; 
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...alan-buun-quot

I'm raising the F2 fry now.  :Smile:

----------


## similus

Nice B uberis community.

----------


## Emokidz

> Congratulations again Bernard. Bubblenesters really love you. 
> 
> Now trying my hand at a pair of albimarginata.


Haha. Thanks... I try my best to keep them happy : )
All the best with the Albi, they are awesome fish

----------


## Emokidz

> Good old film canister! Will look for one for my b uberis. So far no luck with bubblenester.


Yup the film canister works wonders, alternatively, flower pots on their sides work too.

----------


## Emokidz

> I'm also keeping uberis. You can see them here; 
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...alan-buun-quot
> 
> I'm raising the F2 fry now.


Very nice SX. The fishes look good. Hopefully they are able to thrive under your care and the line will endure.

----------


## Shi Xuan

> Very nice SX. The fishes look good. Hopefully they are able to thrive under your care and the line will endure.


Yup, I hope so too. I have three lines of uberis now, after exchanging my adult Aphyoplatys duboisi pair with Sam for his uberis. For now, however, I'm keeping his fish separately from my line because its colors are quite different from yours and mine. The adult male has some red tinge on the pectorals and until I am able to confirm the species, either through meristics etc., I'm planning to keep his line pure as it is.

----------


## Emokidz

Yup, I think the strains should be kept separately until we can confirm them. As for the ones I passed you, I hope either of us can breed the strain. The lateral spot is really distinct on the males and a trait that defines the pangkalan bun strain I believe. Am trying on my end, but not luck as of yet.

----------


## Rutilans

Emokidz,I'm keeping wild bettas too and would be happy to take some Persephone off you.
Hi similus.
and I'm also in AF

----------


## stormhawk

Hello Rutilans,

Off-topic, but young Nothobranchius guentheri males are available at C328.

----------


## Rutilans

Thanks but haven't set up a tank fr them yet so maybe next time bought killies frm ther before lasted 3 months 
only have 2 extra blackwater tanks that has 1 feeder Betta in it to prevent larvae then if I get new wild bettas then I remove

----------


## stormhawk

I was at C328 earlier but did not see any wild betta. I took the only pair of albimarginata there about 2 weeks ago. Last few ones I saw were large macrostoma then nothing else.

----------


## Rutilans

Bought a pair of macs there before male lasted a day female lasted a week,but my pair from y618 has lasted from march till now. Currently have five macs 1 pair from y618 1 pair frm a bro in AF then another one is a fry from the pair from y618

----------


## Rutilans

Have any idea what does c328 have at the moment?

----------


## stormhawk

No wild Betta when I was there earlier today.

----------


## Rutilans

Ok thanks I'm on my way there

----------


## Rutilans

Attention bros there's a kind of big pair of albis at c328 was there a few mins ago

----------


## Emokidz

JUst an update, persephone fry are growing out fine and some are almost guppy fry size now. To make things even better, my other pair spawned. THough its a small spawn of 4-5 fry still hanging in the nest. every bit counts.

----------


## TanCH

Congrate bro!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

----------


## Rutilans

Congrats,hope they grow up well.
would be happy to buy some frm you when there're older

----------


## similus

It is always nice to see the wilds successfully spawned!

----------


## johannes

> JUst an update, persephone fry are growing out fine and some are almost guppy fry size now. To make things even better, my other pair spawned. THough its a small spawn of 4-5 fry still hanging in the nest. every bit counts.


Keep it up bro Bernard! 
Haven't seen you for a while..  :Smile: 
Anyway, guys, this is Bernard's Betta persephone thread (I am sure he won't mind) but try to stick to the thread's topic.
Thanks &
Cheers

----------


## Rutilans

Ok noted bro johannes

----------


## Rutilans

Emokidz,do you have any Persephone to let go?

----------


## Emokidz

> Keep it up bro Bernard! 
> Haven't seen you for a while..


Hi Johannes! Hope everything's good. It's good to see you here again. Yup, I haven't been too active on the forums lately, but have posted some stuff to share as and when there's something noteworthy.
Will be focusing on these guys primarily for now.

----------


## Emokidz

> Congrate bro!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


Thanks! Will continue to update you guys on the fry.

----------


## Emokidz

> It is always nice to see the wilds successfully spawned!


Yup, the whole process is fun and fulfilling to watch them grow up from egg and fry.

----------


## Emokidz

> Emokidz,do you have any Persephone to let go?


Hi Rutilans, not at the moment. The fry are not even the size of guppy fry and will not grow as quickly for that matter.
Grow out will take 6 months at least. Will decide on releasing (if any) then. Though uncommon, some may be lost along the way for various reasons, or sec ratios may not be balanced.

----------


## Rutilans

Ohh ok wish you good luck in raising all to adulthood :Grin:

----------


## Rutilans

Now how many adults do you have?
i can accept 2.5-3cm also,but I guess these fish take along time my brownorum fry took from may to now to reach 2-5++cm

----------


## Emokidz

I currently have only 2 adult pairs for Betta Persephone. The fry are the next generation from these two pairs.

----------


## Rutilans

Oh I see..........ok

----------


## johannes

> Hi Johannes! Hope everything's good. It's good to see you here again. Yup, I haven't been too active on the forums lately, but have posted some stuff to share as and when there's something noteworthy.
> Will be focusing on these guys primarily for now.


It's good to see that members are active in breeding these endangered wild bettas.
I am hoping to see some members here breeding Lividas as well...

----------


## Rutilans

Livida is also hard to find know anywhere got bring in?or sellers?
Dont think got much endangered wild betta in the wild now. :Exasperated:

----------

