# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Characins >  Most foolproof way to differentiate between Red Phantom and Serpae tetra?

## Enoran

Calling the tetra experts here ...

I wanted some colors in my tanks of Penguin & Rummy Nose Tetras and some red-colored fish will definitely lightened up my tank.

I suppose the Red Phantom Tetras will be the most ideal. However, I'm wary upon the fact that I might have got Serpaes instead of Red Phantoms.

No doubts Serpaes are attractive but their fin-nippings on almost every fish in the tank does not go well with me.

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## Matt Ford

Hi Enoran the easiest way for me is to look at the anal fin of the fish. This is edged in black and white in _H. eques_ but not in _H. sweglesi._ Also serpaes always have black in the dorsal fin whereas with phantoms only the females do.

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## Enoran

Thanks Matt, that was helpful.

Goggled for Serpaes pictures and all specimens I seen have a distinct white tip at the anal fin.

By the way, you mean male _H. sweglesi_ does not have any black at their dorsals?

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## Matt Ford

Yes that's what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear Enoran. The dorsal is also a bit extended and tapers into a point in male _sweglesi,_ whereas in the females it's rounded with black and white markings.  :Smile:

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## raglan

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...y.php?id=10659

out of about 25 fish I have, only one fish shows an all red dorsal like this with no markings...others have a black marking on dorsal, and some have a white spot too. I've never really studied this fish, so I don't have a clue.

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## Enoran

> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...y.php?id=10659
> 
> out of about 25 fish I have, only one fish shows an all red dorsal like this with no markings...others have a black marking on dorsal, and some have a white spot too. I've never really studied this fish, so I don't have a clue.


As Matt points out, Serpae has distinct Black color anal fin that ends at a white tip (if i get this correct)

Did you buy all the 25 from a single tank from your local shop? If not chances are, some of those might be Serpae Tetras. 

Did you see some contrasting behavior in your 25 fishes?
As past experience with serpae has taught me, these guys are fin nippers and will nip each other as well as those from different species.

On the contrary from what I have read, Red Phantoms are way more docile.

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## raglan

Every fish I have is wild caught and comes from Oliver Lucanus of BelowWater. He would definitely , definitely, know them correctly.

They all came in one batch and were very small size.
They have been very reasonable fish so far, no trouble with the other wild angels that were being quarantined, and now are in an altum tank, where they are keeping well away from the altums if the altums look hungry. They have not nipped corys nor angelfish , and angelfish ventral fins are perfect for nipping.

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## raglan

Spent an hour or so looking about on the internet and at photos and found an article suggesting that several variants of Red Phantom are in existence.

interesting thing I just noticed is that I had two with only red dorsal this morning, but then I saw them swtching to black dorsal momentarily !
I had these fish in a tank that I could not observe much in. 

now they are in the open in a reasonable location for viewing, and I'm noticing these things for the first time.

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## Matt Ford

Hi Raglan, in my experience the tips of the males' dorsal fins do tend to be darker, more so when they're displaying at each other but not to the extent where I would describe the colour as black. Interesting about the possibility of different colour forms, do you have a link to the article you mention?

Cheers

Matt

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## raglan

I'll try to backtrack, but I really don't know where I end up sometimes during 3 or 5 AM sleeptrolling the internet. There was no scientific basis offered, or I would have bookmarked it.

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## raglan

boink. I'm still woozy so it was easy to find

http://www.theaquarians.net/html/fis...C=173&nl=&nt=1

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## Matt Ford

Cheers for the link raglan.  :Smile:  In 20 years of keeping fish I have never seen any variants of _H. sweglesi._ Perhaps the author is confusing similar species such as _H. griemi_ or _H. werneri_?

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## raglan

you're welcome !

I think the previous link from fishbase compared to the top left #2 and #3 photos shows why they say that. The dorsal spot is the same dark colour as the "heart spot". The fishbase photo is second row down on the left, also.

http://images.google.ca/images?q=red%20phantom%20tetra&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB :Surprised: fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

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## Enoran

Thanks for the link raglan ...

Looks like I'm more confused with Serpae and Red Phantom every passing day  :Razz:

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## illumnae

i don't know how accurate this is, but personally when i compare mature serpaes with mature red phantoms, i find that serpaes are more deep bodied than red phantoms. Also, i find that mature serpaes tend to be more opaque than red phantoms, and the dorsal fin shape of red phantoms are slightly more arced/sickle-shaped than serpaes.

Just some layman/non-scientific observations which might be very wrong.

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## CK Yeo

This?



And the female.



ck

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## Enoran

Very detailed pictures of male and female _Hyphessobrycon sweglesi_  :Smile: 

Any _Hyphessobrycon eques_ pictures to post, Bro CK ?  :Wink:

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## CK Yeo

To add to the confusion. Found a batch of these with slight difference in dorsal pattern and a lot less red. Same size as the one shown in the pics easlier. Still Hyphessobrycon sweglesi? 


I do not have a serpae pic (yet). Most in the LFS are in bad shape due to overcrowding and fin nipping.
Random serpae tetra image from google image.

from http://www.unclemikespetworld.ie/Pages/Fish.html

ck

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## Enoran

Think the fish in the picture should still be a Hyphessobrycon sweglesi.

The anal fin in the H.Sweglesi, has nice arc while the serpae's is rather straight.

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## raglan

it just seems that yellow pigment is showing and not red, as usually there is orangey red. All the rest looks the same.

Once I find my camera USB I'll show mine with total red dorsal and black dorsal with spots.

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## Matt Ford

That new one is a different species for me CK. Can you take another pic when it's fully coloured up?

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## CK Yeo

Yes I will.  :Smile: 
Provided they don't die before that happens.  :Exasperated: 

ck

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## illumnae

seaview has been selling something that they label as "golden phantom tetra", could this be it?

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## raglan

http://www.beke.co.nz/forum/showthread.php?p=8503

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## Matt Ford

Just my opinion but I don't reckon this is _H. roseus_. I _think_ it's a fish I had a few years ago that came in as a contaminant with some serpaes.

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## raglan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v/kjewFSpJg6U

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## CK Yeo

> That new one is a different species for me CK. Can you take another pic when it's fully coloured up?


Anything familiar? The body spot is a bit fade because of stress. 


"Before"


I am guessing this is the female.


This is what I thought was H. sweglesi.


ck

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## Morgan01

any reason why my Red Phantom bought from Seaview is transparent in colour rather than RED? Or will it change colour when fully grown?

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## WiNd08

> any reason why my Red Phantom bought from Seaview is transparent in colour rather than RED? Or will it change colour when fully grown?


i think they are the same as black phantoms, will be rather transparent at first and after acclaimatizing to your tank they will turned dark in color :Smile:

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## juggler

> This?
> 
> 
> 
> And the female.
> 
> 
> 
> ck


CK: How to tell male and female?

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## CK Yeo

Koah Fong, the females are fatter, broader body, short dorsal. I did see some things near the anal vent which I am not sure if they are eggs. Beside, the male will flare like crazy than compared to the female.

ck

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## juggler

Thanks, ck. I think it will be quite hard for me to tell the difference unless the female is really fat.  :Smile:

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## Matt Ford

Now I see the male it looks like _sweglesi_ CK!  :Angel:

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