# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Non co2 plants for nano tank of shrimp tank

## Xiaogui

Any guys can help me out as I'm setting up a 1.5ft shrimp tank for my daughter.
anyone have pics or names of non co2 plants suitable for shrimp tank. 
Pics of your shrimp tanks are welcome to give me ideas!
Thanks a lot

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## Urban Aquaria

You can check out the plant list at Tropica website, they allocate the plants into categories based on their minimal care requirements... it's a good starting reference:

http://tropica.com/en/plants/

For plants that don't necessarily require Co2 injection to grow well (but will still benefit from it if available), look at the "easy" category plants.

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## Xiaogui

thanks a lot

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## ahpui6

You might also want to consider mosses tied to driftwood or rocks. I am having mini christmas moss in my shrimp tank and the baby shrimps love it. Alternatively, you can also have moss ball for your shrimps. If you have good lightings and excel dosage, you probably could do more =)

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## Xiaogui

any pic to share? im thinking of hair grass for the bedding. but not intending to give any co2

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## Xiaogui

or any recommended bedding plants from u guys that is easy to maintain and can grow fast without co2

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## Xiaogui

I came across this Hydrocotyle tripartite like not bad anyone here try before?

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## ahpui6

My planted tank have japanese hairgrass as carpet. Once i turn off the Co2, growth slow down significantly. I guess you probably need Co2 to attain a lush green carpet. You can try with excel though. Seen hydrocotyle tripartite in a few shop. Was told that it is a low demand plant. Cannot share my experience though as I personally do not grow it.

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## Xiaogui

what about this plant Eleocharis parvula?

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## Urban Aquaria

Its possible to grow hairgrass without Co2 injection... but it'll be very slow.

Eleocharis Parvula is one type of hairgrass, but it can grow quite tall up to 10+ cm height, so may look out of scale in smaller tanks and will need regular trimming to keep it short (unless its a very large tank).

Japanese hairgrass or Eleocharis sp. "Mini" from Tropica would have much shorter growth, thus looks more in scale. Only thing is growth is ultra-slow without Co2 injection.

An alternative for non-Co2 injected tanks would be moss carpet... usually either tied to mesh and placed across the tank base, or tied to rock or wood pieces. Moss are generally lower demand plants so they are easier to grow without Co2 injection, hence you usually see most shrimp keepers keeping mosses in their tanks.

You can check out my outdoor tank with moss tied to lava rocks, no Co2 injection and just indirect sunlight: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t-Outdoor-Tank

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## Xiaogui

If lay moss across the bed of the tank will they root themselves? Or we need to push then into the soil?
im using rainbow LED clip light (L4 :Cool: 
will it produce enough light for the plant
tank size 18" by 13" by 13"

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## Urban Aquaria

> If lay moss across the bed of the tank will they root themselves? Or we need to push then into the soil?
> im using rainbow LED clip light (L4
> will it produce enough light for the plant
> tank size 18" by 13" by 13"


For moss you'll need to push them into the soil, or else they'll just float up and move around in the flow. Most people tie them to mesh or rocks so that they will be weighted down and have a solid platform to secure to.

The rainbow clip-on LED lights should be okay for the moss in a low-tech setup.

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## Xiaogui

Thanks. All kinds of moss is non co2 plants???

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## Urban Aquaria

> Thanks. All kinds of moss is non co2 plants???


Thats usually the case for most mosses that are commonly used in aquariums... mosses have a naturally slower rate of growth (compared to other plants) so their Co2/carbon intake is also correspondingly lower, same as for other slow growing plants like anubias, their slow growing nature is what helps make them hardier than other plants, as their minimal growth demands are lesser.

Of course, with Co2 injection and optimal light + nutrients, such plants can also be encouraged to grow healthier and abit faster (though still not as fast as the fast growing plants).  :Smile:

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## Xiaogui

Ok thanks for those info.
what type of moss will makes a better carpet?
any guys have pic to show me?

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## Urban Aquaria

So far, the shortest and lowest maintenence moss carpets are usually made using mini fissidens tied to mesh (they are slow growing, and usually the most expensive to buy too)... on the otherhand, the easiest and cheapest moss to use as carpet is java moss, super hardy but grows longer and in messy clumps so need to trim regularly. 

There are many other popular mosses like christmas moss (fronds look like christmas tree shape), flame moss (fronds grow vertically), weeping moss (fronds grow hanging downwards) etc.... all with various shapes and patterns to create different moss carpets.

You can check this informative website on aquarium mosses:

http://www.aquamoss.net

For moss carpets, just do a google search for "aquarium moss carpet" and check the image category results, lots of examples.  :Smile:

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## shadoweave

I will usually go for moss.
almost all moss can make a carpet, depending on what type of carpet you are looking for.
Flame moss grows upwards though.

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## Mrhello88

I tried moss without co2 but fail... All hair glass at the end... So sad

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## Xiaogui

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412605867.570220.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412605805.420158.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412605824.953273.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412605890.820466.jpg

Finally set up but didn't know if those plants suitable for a non co2 tank.
Pls advice.
And the TDS reading is 80. Will it increase as the tank get older?


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## Xiaogui

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412606091.603200.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1412606102.569833.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1412606112.404203.jpg


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## Urban Aquaria

> Finally set up but didn't know if those plants suitable for a non co2 tank.
> Pls advice.
> And the TDS reading is 80. Will it increase as the tank get older?


Majority of the plants look okay for the tank... only ones i'm not too sure about are the fern-like plants on the right and the tall red grassy ones on the left, they might be non-aquatic plants, but i can't really confirm. 

Maybe those with more knowledge on these plants can help ID them.

As for the TDS, it will usually rise over time, depending on factors like bio-load, feeding, additives, water change frequency/volume etc.

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## Xiaogui

Bought 2 Otto and 2 Yamato shrimp to start the tank cycle!
but how do we know if the tank is ready for shrimp?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Bought 2 Otto and 2 Yamato shrimp to start the tank cycle!
> but how do we know if the tank is ready for shrimp?


If you are using active soil substrate, it's usually better to run a fishless cycle, let the tank cycle without livestock first, wait until the ammonia and nitrite become zero (use test kits to check), then reduce the accumulated nitrates through water changes before introducing fishes and shrimps... it's more "humane" that way.

Anyways, since you've already added livestock in... i guess the otos and yamato shrimps are now your "live test subjects".  :Opps:

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## Xiaogui

I did a test (sera test kit) before adding live stock and the reading is
NO3 - 0
NO2 - 0
GH - <3d
KH - 3d
PH - 6.4

Then add live stock
But how will I know if the tank is cycle


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## Xiaogui

TDS at 124


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## Urban Aquaria

> I did a test (sera test kit) before adding live stock and the reading is
> NO3 - 0
> NO2 - 0
> GH - <3d
> KH - 3d
> PH - 6.4
> 
> Then add live stock
> But how will I know if the tank is cycle
> ...


How about NH3 (Ammonia)? It'll be good to check that too.

Note that a new tank usually takes a few weeks to settle into a stable cycle, especially with active soil substrate which may be releasing ammonia and nutrients (even if the levels are low). The parameters may show zero initially but as the beneficial bacteria grow and start converting the ammonia and organic waste, the various parameters will start to spike in the process (that's when the toxic effects start affecting the fishes and shrimps).

If you notice the fishes or shrimps behaving oddly or dying, test the parameters again to check the cause... if any of those parameters are registering levels, do water changes to reduce the toxicity to the livestock.

A tank is considered cycled when you see ammonia and nitrite are constantly at zero (no parameter spikes) and only nitrate showing readings.

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## Xiaogui

Ok noted.
thanks

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## Tan Zhuo Yao

Hey Xiaogui, may I know what plant is that in the foreground that is covering the soil? Thanks  :Smile:

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## Xiaogui

I also not sure. Bought at seaview. Maybe some guys can help. 


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## Urban Aquaria

The plants at the tank foreground should be _Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo'_.

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## Xiaogui

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413908654.507373.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413908677.244846.jpg

Guys I notice the moss seems to have more brown rather then green. 
Y will it be like this? Is it because of algae growing in moss?
What can I do?

Currently have 2 Otto and 4 Yamato shrimp inside to help cycle the tank.


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## Xiaogui

Tank has been cycle for 3weeks
Just tested the water with sera quick test and the reading shows
NO3 - 0
NO2 - 0
GH - <3d
KH - between 3d to 6d
PH - 6.4
TDS - 129
Water temp 27.2

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413909477.342907.jpg

Is my tanked cycle from all these information?


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## Urban Aquaria

> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413908654.507373.jpg
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1413908677.244846.jpg
> 
> Guys I notice the moss seems to have more brown rather then green. 
> Y will it be like this? Is it because of algae growing in moss?
> What can I do?
> 
> Currently have 2 Otto and 4 Yamato shrimp inside to help cycle the tank.


It could be brown diatoms algae tangled in the moss (maybe add more yamato shrimps to help clean it) or it could also just be dirt and debris trapped in the fronds (maybe try brushing them and see if can dislodge).

If the moss itself is brown, then it could be in the midst of acclimating to the tank, sometimes they take a while to transition.

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## Xiaogui

Or any other recommended test kit to intro me?


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## Xiaogui

Tank is only 18inch by 13inch by 13inch
Can put more Yamato shrimp?


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## Urban Aquaria

> Tank has been cycle for 3weeks
> Just tested the water with sera quick test and the reading shows
> NO3 - 0
> NO2 - 0
> GH - <3d
> KH - between 3d to 6d
> PH - 6.4
> TDS - 129
> Water temp 27.2
> ...


Hmmm... from my own experience, test strip kits aren't really accurate, i've used them before and the test strip results somehow ended up wildly different from the chemical reagent/test tube ones.

Anyways, "assuming" the measurements are correct, it looks like its cycled, though its still missing ammonia (NH3) measurements and nitrate (NO3) is oddly at zero (usually nitrate should at least display some readings at this stage).

What i'd be concerned about is without knowing the actual ammonia measurements, there could be a possibly that ammonia might actually still be at high levels and the cycle is still in progress (hence nitrite and nitrate are still at zero).  :Think:

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## Xiaogui

Maybe I should wait for another 2-3 weeks before adding shrimp


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## Xiaogui

Can we put charcoal in canister for shrimp.
Cause I saw post saying that they have a lifespan of 3 mths and will release back the toxic if never change


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## Urban Aquaria

> Can we put charcoal in canister for shrimp.
> Cause I saw post saying that they have a lifespan of 3 mths and will release back the toxic if never change


You can put charcoal in the filter... though it's not really necessary unless you need to remove medication or chemicals from the water column after certain treatments. Most people prefer to use the space to hold more bio-media instead.

The thing with carbon is it removes everything equally (both the good and bad stuff), so some of the good stuff like minerals and trace element that you add for the shrimps may be taken out too.

Not sure about the left span of 3 months or whether it will release toxins back into he water, but usually most carbon is recommended to be used for only around 2-3 weeks, then need to be changed.

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## Xiaogui

Tank updates!!!

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1414594698.231009.jpg


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## Xiaogui

Using a fan to cool the water and manage to get a constant temp of 27-28 degree



I will like to see them crossbreed and hopefully can fill tank with many type of different shrimp



Any guys here can help me along on which type of shrimp to get in order to have cross breed and how many pcs to get for each type


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## Xiaogui

Planning to get shrimp next week. Any guys here have place to intro me???


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## jiajuen900

image.jpg
Here's a great chart from planet invertebrates to help you decide which shrimps will interbreed.

From the looks of your tank, I think you might have some non-aquatics plants. The ferns on the right and long red plant on the left don't look like true aquatic plants. (Some LFS sell them as aquatic plants even though they are in fact terrestrial plants that are just hardy and take a long time melt)

Such plants will rot over time and cause ammonia in the tank to spike, possibly harming livestock.

I think it would be better or less of a risk to remove these plants before they cause trouble for the tank.

Just my 2 cents  :Wink:

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## Xiaogui

All this chat no say about Taiwan shrimp like kingkong


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## Xiaogui

Thinking of keeping 
Tiger shrimp
King Kong shrimp
Fire yellow shrimp
Yellow shrimp

Will these bee interbreed?
Will their offspring turn out nice?


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## Urban Aquaria

Well, you can mix different line-bred color variations of the same species of shrimps together, but this random mixing tends to favor their dominant wild-type genes and the majority of their offspring will gradually degrade in color and pattern quality, until they eventually revert back to their wild-type colors (which are not as desirable).

It'll be like unraveling all the years of hard work the shrimp breeders have done.  :Grin: 

That being said, if you don't bother about grading/improving the breeding lines, but prefer to experiment instead (and can actually afford to use expensive shrimps to do such experiments), then you could simply mix them all together and see if any interesting random mutations pop out.  :Very Happy:

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## Xiaogui

Bought 10 tiger shrimp. But one by one die off. Don't know what reason

Ph - 6.4
Kh - 3d
Gh - <3d
No2 - 0
No3 - 0
Temp constant at 27-28



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## jiajuen900

Could be due to ammonia (NH3). Should measure that as well.

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## Xiaogui

Other then wc is there any others ways to bring down the TDS.
I change 50% water and 1 shrimp died.  :Sad: 


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## Urban Aquaria

> Other then wc is there any others ways to bring down the TDS.
> I change 50% water and 1 shrimp died.


TDS is basically all the accumulated things you add into the water (ie. additives, minerals, fertilizers, food etc), minerals leaching from rocks and waste production from livestock and plants. To slow the inevitable increase in TDS over time, you'll have to either add less of those things, feed less or reduce the bio-load. Doing water top-ups with RO/DI or distilled water will help slow down the TDS increase too.

Water changes are the easiest and quickest way to reduce and re-balance TDS though the basic process of dilution. If you want to control TDS more effectively, then have to use RO/DI or distilled water (along with beneficial minerals to re-mineralize the water) to do water changes.

If you keep certain shrimps species which tend to be particularly sensitive to changes, its best to do a series of smaller 10-20% water changes over the course of a few days, rather than one large 50% water change (which may affect those livestock due to the sudden change in water parameters).

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## Xiaogui

Thanks bro. Got you. Will take note. 


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## fireblade

are you using pink lights? might not be good for plants.. 
can try monte carlo for carpet plants... they should do well without CO2.

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## Xiaogui

I using white led with blue led lights


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## Xiaogui

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416936335.257664.jpg
My first mama!!! What should I do? How long will the baby be out? 


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## Ingen

> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416936335.257664.jpg
> My first mama!!! What should I do? How long will the baby be out? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just wait... Don't do drastic actions that changes the water parameters

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## fireblade

wow.. preggy tiger!!  :Smile:  
congrats!!

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## Pobbi

Probably take 3-4weeks. haha. do minimal wcs, maybe 10-20%. 50 is too much for them to take it. maybe can consider topping up with DI water from the supermarkets. then get minerals to control the tds. cause as weeks goes by your water will evaporate and the tds of the water will be more concentrated, making the tds alot higher then it should be.

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## Xiaogui

Thanks. I will keep the TDS at between 130 - 180. Issit alright?


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## Xiaogui

And if I don't see any baby in 3 weeks time what should I do? Should I give baby shrimp food? Cause those baby might be hiding ma


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## Xiaogui

Some pics of the mama!!!

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417111092.661292.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417111105.407837.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417111116.852678.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417111124.440358.jpg


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## Xiaogui

I think all the egg drop.  :Sad:  


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## Pobbi

Don't fret. it will get berried once again if your perimeters are right. i've heard about hatching the shrimplets by using a net if the mama died, but never tried it. Not sure if it works for dropped eggs though. But fear not, it will come again. Cheer up bro.

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## Xiaogui

Okay. I will just wait


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## Xiaogui

My Otto keep eating my shrimp food. What can I do?


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## Pobbi

Haha, that can't be prevented. at least for my case. how many ottos you got?

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## Xiaogui

2 in a 50 liters tank


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## Pobbi

For me, I stimulated algae/bacteria films growth using b4/purify, dosage of shrimp safe ferts and also lighting can be longer like about 8hours, this way the tank will have more films/algaes for the ottos. I'm not sure if this is the right way, but my ottos is more focused at the tank and substrate wall now, compared to the shrimp food. Haha  :Smile:

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