# Planted Tanks > Vivariums >  6ft paludarium journal- pictures

## eddy planer

Hi Bros,

Anyone keep 6ft vivarium tank or seen any 6ft vivarium tank in Singapore? :Smile: 

Care to share with me? I still wavering, should I setup a vivarium project for this 6x2.5x2.5 tank . :Embarassed: 

let me know your thoughts.

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## David Moses Heng

> Hi Bros,
> 
> Anyone keep 6ft vivarium tank or seen any 6ft vivarium tank in Singapore?
> 
> Care to share with me? I still wavering, should I setup a vivarium project for this 6x2.5x2.5 tank .
> 
> let me know your thoughts.



yes!!. please go ahead and start the trend!! 

I did a 422 once. But tore it down when it collapse as i was away from home for 1 month.

NOw I have a 20" crabium(?) running.


All the way :Jump for joy:  :Jump for joy:

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## eddy planer

Yes thanks... still I need some good advise, guildance, concept and some 6ft vivarium pix to inspire before I commit into vivarium. I find vivarium pretty cool but I really dont know vivarium suit 6ft tank, bo?

Let me know your thoughts

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## David Moses Heng

http://www.wildsky.net/vivarium/evivariu.htm

i got my inspiration from here.

let me know if i can help in other areas.
[email protected] :Smile:

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## seanskye

> http://www.wildsky.net/vivarium/evivariu.htm
> 
> i got my inspiration from here.
> 
> let me know if i can help in other areas.
> [email protected]


That's a wonderful link!

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## eddy planer

Thanks bro,

This really inspire me....look like i need tons of DIY work ,materials and time. :Shocked: 

Need to design the vivarium with minimal cost for this monster tank... any idea?

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## David Moses Heng

> Thanks bro,
> 
> This really inspire me....look like i need tons of DIY work ,materials and time.
> 
> Need to design the vivarium with minimal cost for this monster tank... any idea?



When I did my 422 viva the mistakes that i commit was that i wanted to do everything huge. Hence, I bought tree bark, palm tree bark, tonnes of egg crates and silicone them into my 422.

Imagine my heartache when the viva collapse. Not only did i have to scoop everything out, worst thing is I had to force removed all those things that i had silicone in.  :Smile: 

Hence for my crabium, I did everything modular. i wired tied the tree bark onto a piece of egg crate. for false bottom, i cable them together and i put ceramic ring beneath the egg crate for bio filter. If you can, do everything modular.

Neater and easier that way.

now my scarred 422 is home to about 15 gold fish, 9 silver dollar and 2 shovel nose cat.

Been trying to persuade my wife to allow me to have another 422 but to no vail... :Sad: 

here is the thread on my 422

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=51965

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## David Moses Heng

> That's a wonderful link!



it's in the sticky

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## eddy planer

She rather you spend time with her than spend time with your project..lah!

My wife and 3 demanding kids surely wont let me involve too much time and the big minus, this monster tank is 2'5" deep, lah ! My back sure kana acupunture within 2 days!!!! :Crying: 

But let me think...how this project can set up with little effort. If you have any idea without too much silicon and stain my dream tank too much. :Razz:

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## David Moses Heng

> She rather you spend time with her than spend time with your project..lah!
> 
> My wife and 3 demanding kids surely wont let me involve too much time and the big minus, this monster tank is 2'5" deep, lah ! My back sure kana acupunture within 2 days!!!!
> 
> But let me think...how this project can set up with little effort. If you have any idea without too much silicon and stain my dream tank too much.



i have got 3 kids as well.

For the project, use cable ties. If you have to use tree bark, tied them to tank dividers or egg crates. Then instead of sticking the bark onto the tank, all you need to do is insert the divider with bark in. For the false bottoms, go daiso and get baskets. The baskets will allow you to put medias like ceramic rings, biohome plus, sera peat etc.

This way, you do not have to worry about spoiling your tank.

Well, to counter my wife's decision against having another422 at home, what i did is that i have 422 outside the house ie in my clients premises. :Grin:

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## eddy planer

Do you know anyone got such a big vivarium?

I like to see how the real setup vivarium project on the monster tank or do you still have anyone who has it now?

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## Wild Ginger

Hi Eddy, 

From what i gather, you have a monstrous 6 footer which you're comtemplating on turning it into a Vivarium. They key to a successful vivarium is always proper planning and tons of research. 

What i suggest to you at this point of time is to lay out your plans systematically. For eg...

*Budget (amount willing to be set aside for the construction building process)*
-The amount set aside will generally be an indication as to how your things will fall through. Which is costing more and which things you've to substitue for a cheaper one. Whilst some you could do a DIY to save costs. 
-Existing things/ supplies which you have lying around in your house could bring down the costs as well.

Next are the basic essential points.

*Basic Planning Items:*
-Tank Size & Type (is it a tank with a sump below? Or a normal tank)
-Placement of tank (whether it gets sunlight etc)
-Lighting supplement (metal halides, T5's etc; also the type of plants determine the type of lighting used)
-Filtration system (external canister filter, internal filter)
-Ventilation system for exchange of gases and cool/hot air (with computer fans)
-Misting system (For easy maintenance in the long run, tank has to have a drainage hole in order to accommodate this system)
-Glass cover for top of tank (with holes for fans and misting nozzles)
-Water reservoir for misting system 
-Extension cord for multi sockets (for external canister, misting pump, light etc)

Once you've roughly settled the above points, you can move on next to the skeletal design of the Vivarium.

As i read through your posts, i guess the best skeletal design for you would be to have an island in the middle or on both sides of the tank, depending on your tastes. This is to eliminate the hassle of tearing down and scraping silicone off the back wall should you want to do a back wall decoration. 

Think of it as those raised islands with flooded waters all around and sunken logs and branches. 

*Skeletal Foundation: (Islands theme)*
-Eggcrates (this will form the foundation for the islands)
-Driftwoods & Bogwood (to provide accents or to strategically place around the eggcrate foundation for the islands)
-Smooth large granite rocks (reminiscence of those clear flowing streams)
-River sand (or any sand to complement the whole look)
-Cable ties (to secure the eggcrates together)

After these pointers have been thought upon, you can move on to the rough drawing. Have a look through pictures of flooded forests and streams or jungles (for eg, Amazon jungle) on the web or through books at the library or bookstores. Print out or save them on your comp in a folder. This folder will serve as a visual inspiration for your rough drawing.

*Flora*
Once completed with the rough sketches, list out the types of plants you'd like to have in there. Different plants require different amount of lighting and also the amount of moisture they'll likey tolerate. So spend a more considerable time on this to make sure your plant survives in a Vivarium environment. 

*Fauna*
-What would you be keeping and ease of feeding?
The fauna in the tank determines the type of scape and layout to suit its needs. 

So in all, these pointers above will serve as a rough gauge on how you should most probably conduct your preparation in setting up such a massive Vivarium. It's all trial and error but in the end provides a satisfaction that all possibilities have been well thought of.

I'd like to add it's best if you could provide pictures and document the process along the way so it benefits the others as well. 

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Thanks Phillpe,

This is what i wants! 

Wow! there alot of works, high cost of materials and time  :Knockout: 

As for filtering system I'm using 2 external cansiter and using 4x 4ft T5 and 4x3ftT5 for lighting system.

Misting system, Ventilation system and glass cover lid I need to pool another few hundred bucks. As for eggcrates... i dont understand why need eggcrates for this project...egg crate will start crumpled upon touching water. agree?

Any substitue for misting system, glass panel lid and ventilating system? cheaper choice?

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## David Moses Heng

the master have spoken :Well done: 

BTW, for sample viva, try visiting pet essential opposite ten mile junction. they have 1 vivarium, 1 paludarium and 1 terrarium on display there.

They also carry barks, tree vines and other vivarium accessories.

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## Mikex

> Thanks Phillpe,
> 
> This is what i wants! 
> 
> Wow! there alot of works, high cost of materials and time 
> 
> As for filtering system I'm using 2 external cansiter and using 4x 4ft T5 and 4x3ftT5 for lighting system.
> 
> Misting system, Ventilation system and glass cover lid I need to pool another few hundred bucks. As for eggcrates... i dont understand why need eggcrates for this project...egg crate will start crumpled upon touching water. agree?
> ...


Hi,i believe the egg crate that they referring to is nt those crate that is used to hold the egg..but more of a large white plastic mesh..do correct me if i am wrong..

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## Wild Ginger

No problem, Eddy!

I doubt the cost will be so exponentially high as you've pretty much the more costly items already on hand. 

Your current filtration is more than enough to sustain the 6ft tank. Even one would suffice as your water volume will only be 10-20&#37;. Same goes for lighting.

As for misting, i think you can eliminate that. You have 2 choices over this. One is through a wicking system and the other being your second filter canister acting as a constant rainbar to supply as a waterfall or stream. This you can work out the details whilst on the drawing board.

And as for eggcrates, i think you're referring to those meant for putting eggs. Below is the eggcrate which i'm referring to. Sturdy and light enough. You can get this at any fish shops for eg, C328. They sold as large pieces.



Yes, Mikex, this is the right one!



On another note, the glass lid provides a certain level of humidity to the plants inside and with the fans on it creates a more stable exchange of hot air and cool air. You've to remember that the heat given out by the lights will emit through and thus heating up the tank significantly. The fans are there to counter this. You can place it on a timer so it shuts off periodically.

So Eddy, any themes you've in mind? .... a japanese dense bamboo forest with clear running streams all around or a fallen tree half sunken with leaves strewn about.......? :Grin: 

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## FuEl

A well designed false bottom is critical. You would'nt want any stagnant bodies of water in a vivarium that size. Incorporate drainage into your false bottom so you can drain off excess water easily and for ease of flushing of detritus in future. Also important is the substrate. Choose one that has good drainage and does'nt foul up so fast.

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## lorba

Some ideas?


More Pictures Here >>


More Pictures Here >>


More Pictures Here >>


More Pictures Here >>


More Pictures Here >>


More Pictures Here >>


More Pictures Here >>

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## aquarius

WOW!! The pics look absolutely STUNNING!!!  :Shocked:  Eddy don't need to consider or wait liao...  :Grin:

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## eddy planer

Hi brothers,

If I use normal tree bark from the timber or logging companies in Malaysia rather than buy cork bark locally. Any side effect if use tree bark from timber/ logging companies for my future 6ft paladarium tank project or planted tank project.

I find the cork bark (2m long) very pricey so get tree bark from timber is basically free.

Please advise me , gurus.

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## Wild Ginger

If you're going to utilize tree bark from the timbers of logging companies, there's a few things to ponder on.

-Firstly, how are you going to ensure that the timber has not been treated with chemicals etc?
-Secondly, even if the timber has not been treated, the tree bark has various 'inhabitants' in them, pests or mites etc. How are you going to clean it thoroughly and disinfect it plus are you prepared to spend the time to do all this preparation?
-Depending on the type of timber/ wood, is the bark going to last as long as a corkbark and how will it disintigrate in the tank with all those moisture?
-Are anchoring of plants easier on this type of bark?

These are just a few of many questions you've to research on. In short, my personal opinion would be that the corkbark satisfy most if not all of the necessary conditions above. It's fairly long lasting plus thoroughly cleaned. A standard 3ft x 1.5ft panel cost roughly around S$40 -S$48 at most shops.

Rather than the hassle of going through all that cleaning and knowing that the timber tree bark will disintigrate much faster, the corkbark's the safer option.

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Philipes,

Do you have any cork bark to spare or sell ? 

I already have 70cm length but still not enough to fill the wall of by 6ft x 2.5ft height.

Already decide to set up 6ft paladurium project .

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## eddy planer

Yo bro

I have decide to put up 6ft paladurium project.
But now I'm hunting for any cheap or free :Embarassed:  cork bark if i can find. NA does sold it but too pricey for my 6 ft tank.Seaview sold too but higher than NA.

I have 2 Jebo 828 cannisters, laguna cannister with UV light plus Atman of 3000lire /hr,3ft sump. 45kg lapis sand and 2.5 ft tall tree like bogwood

Now still hunting for 
soil base of 10-20kg
big rocks
big bogwoods
DIY overflow system for sump and laguna cannister.
mist system

I will put up pix and my construction of 6ft paladurium.... any one have any better idea or concept or advise to ensure my 6ft paludarium go smoothly?

let me know your thoughts

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## Wild Ginger

I don't have any but you might want to try Nature Aquarium if they could sell you a smaller piece.

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## Wild Ginger

Great to know you're finally embarking on the project. I'm sure the basics have been explained earlier in the replies. I suggest you post up a picture of ur tank and your equipements. 

Rather than just having words being exchanged here, why don't you roughly draw out a plan for it? A visual rough drawing is much better than just words. It's a better way to start of planning it whilst waiting for your other things.

Have some picture references if you find any so it can aid you much better. Without all these visuals, the most anyone can do is just literally advising you.

So do post up your rough sketches or picture samples/reference which you like, so we can better facilitate to your building of this paludarium. All you need is just a pencil/pen and a paper and sketch it out.

Hope to see your plans mate.

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## David Moses Heng

> Yo bro
> 
> I have decide to put up 6ft paladurium project.
> But now I'm hunting for any cheap or free cork bark if i can find. NA does sold it but too pricey for my 6 ft tank.Seaview sold too but higher than NA.
> 
> I have 2 Jebo 828 cannisters, laguna cannister with UV light plus Atman of 3000lire /hr,3ft sump. 45kg lapis sand and 2.5 ft tall tree like bogwood
> 
> Now still hunting for 
> soil base of 10-20kg
> ...


how many you need? Let me know. I might be able to help

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## eddy planer

Yo Phillips

Can I substitute Cork Bark to Fern Bark( normally use for orchid mounting)?

I find this fern bark has excellent for moses to root in.

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## Wild Ginger

Yes, tree fern bark panels are a much better substitute at way much cheaper costs. But do take note that it leeches the water and you'll have a dark brown tea-like coloured water.

Are you getting them from Woon Leng?

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

woon leng?

where woon leng locate?

So will it eventually back to clear water?

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## eddy planer

Actually i planning to place fern bark under the cork bark...which mean fern bark will be immerse into the water whereas cork bark is above the water.

So from this point , moss will tend to grow well on the fern bark under the water so the cork bark will be attach to land plant.

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## Wild Ginger

Woon Leng is an orchid farm situated at
_70 Jalan Lekar S 698949, tel: (65) 67602064._

It's just round the bend on the right hand side after Qianhu Farm if you're driving or if you take the shuttle from Choa Chu Kang mrt station.

Call first to make sure they have stock. And since you mentioned the tree fern bark being submerged, a more generous application of silicon to the bark would ensure it staying there for a long time. As for leeching the water, it'll still continue as long as it comes into contact with water or has dripping water on it.

If you want clear running waters, why not just tie mosses on stainless steel meshes instead and have them on the back wall?

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Thanks phillips

If i add 20 panels of fern bark and immerse them...my 6x1.5 x1.5 of water will become kopi-o or tea kau! agree?

So is there anyway to eliminate the tannins? What if i soak them for weeks with freq water change to eliminate the tannins just like the bogwood..is this possible?

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## Wild Ginger

It's Phillipe, not Philips, Eddy. :Smile: 

Doesn't matter whether you add just 1 or 20 in the water cause it will eventually leech and turn your water dark brown. No amount of soaking and changing of water will change that. I have one vivarium setup using tree fern barks running for 5 years and it still leeches out thus turning the water brownish.

So in short, it's not possible to eradicate this leeching at all. Either you have corkbark or stainless steel mesh tied with mosses. Put it this way, why not spend a little more to get that desired look and clear waters?

Balance of the corkbark, you could utilize them for future projects. OR instead of going flat out on the submerged back panels, why not have bogwoods instead? You could arrange it in a way that some are protuding out of the water and they'll look like root buttress projecting into the water. There's many solutions for you here.

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Thank you so much..


I nearly buy panel of 20 fern barks. Look i need to hunt for more cork bark at least 4 ft more. if not i have to break up the cork bark into pieces and silicon one bit by bit on the 1 foot coloured background foam board and add coconut husk pieces and sphagnum moss in between the pieces of cork bark and I believe will even look more natural for the top while the rest of cork bark will be totally submerged into the water for moss to grow on it

what do you think?

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## Wild Ginger

That'd be another great way to go about it. And in a way you don't have to source out for so much corkbark. Also, since you're doing it in this manner, you could attach vines to fill up the blank areas and subsequently filler plants such as ferns will fill up unsightly gaps etc. 

Collect twigs, clean them thoroughly and attach them to the back wall. It'll create a more layered look increasing the visual depth. 

Post some photos mate!

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Can i use plywood to substitute eggcrate for this project? will it leeching like the fern bark or emit toxic if this plywood fully submerse ?

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## boxedfish

plywood are different layers of different sheets of wood glued together to form a thicker piece. I am sure the glue used is toxic. i do not know how safe are the processed sheets of wood used also.

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## Wild Ginger

For the base, DON'T use plywood as it'll eventually disintegrate and rot, emitting a foul smell PLUS it's toxic with the chemicals and glue in it. Just stick with the eggcrate, it provides better flow of water through it and it's lightweight PLUS non-toxic. :Grin: 

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Hi bros

Actually i thought of using plywood for background, but since you guys against the idea and I'm taking your advise seriously.

Phillipe, I'm thinking of thin mangrove straight wood (with bark of course) as the submerged background while cock bark at the top or vice vista.But I'm not too sure if this straight wood will leech. If you still skeptical , I'll try upload the pix if I get there at JM nursery at Thomson just behind Far East Flora today or if you like to accompany me (i pick you up in the west) today, (time to meet up after or before the moss seminar at Hortpark at 3pm.)

I just bought 2ft long vine, coco fiber, hydroponic peat,aquatic compost soil, aquatic fertilizer (dark brown peat),woodchips yesterday. As for the sealants like GS, black,beige and clear silicon are ready, too.

What I dont have :
eggcrate
return pump of 2800litre/hr
more cock bark 
customized made lid glass panel
humility maker. 
pvc gray or black piping or aquatic clear piping
sprinklers

I almost there...fireup, itchy and crazy!

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## eddy planer

Hi Phillipe,

Attached the picture taken in JM nursery today. Can you please advise, if these straight wood stick suitable for submerge background?

pix3.JPG
pix2.JPG


Hope this will help you ..to advise me 

let me know your thoughts

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## eddy planer

Yo Folks

So after 2 months since my 422 tank's front glass panel collapsed and I finally seeking advise from gurus.So I've been planning, gathering materials, researching, and practicing fake wall construction, I'm finally taking the plunge to build a mega sophisticated paludarium for the first time I never have the experience before. Well I love challenging project which I have never done before! 

Thanks to the guys at AQ (I'm thinking of process of creating another thread site but I still stick to this), I was able to pick up the largest OHS tank that's made - 6 x 2.5 x 2 with 15mm thick glass panel--- for a mere $150 2nd hand with free delivery!!!! 

I also got the matching stand with dark glass panel sump, because I had limited space, as you'll see... I wanted something that would fit perfectly...at my balcony with HDB approval, so I wasn't too worried.

Plans for this tank include:
-- Back ground cork bark background wall using foam / grout / epoxy method.
-- Bogwood effect
-- misting system (DIY method)
-- drip wall (sprinklers)
-- 2 filters (1 sump / 1 Laguna cannister with UV)
-- waterfalls + pond
-- all the kinds of plantlife one could ever hope to have

Hopefully, I'll have this baby completed by before Christmas... but no rush!

DSC00690.JPG
This is my SGD150 monster tank with free delivery! who can beat this?

DSC00768.JPG
That my Jebo 828 cannister, laguna cannister with UV attached 3000l/hr pump and new Dymax pump of 2500l/hr

DSC00772.JPG
Coco Fiber, sphagnum moss, aquatic fertilizer, hydroponic peat and wood chips

DSC00782.JPG
Transparent, beige and black silicon and also GS foam spray.



Be continue...

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## 69efan69

looks very promising dude. keep us updated wo0ho0o

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## eddy planer

Yo folks
I won't let you down :-) All the fine people here on the AQ have taught me a lot (including you) from all the questions and trial / error... I just need to add my creative touch, and we'll be golden.rite?

Attached another materials picture 


pix2b.JPG
Aquatic Compost Soil ..no need ADA,JBL or what's ever brands. This still the cheapest one (25kg under SGD15!) pm me if you are interested.

DSC00790.JPG
Bogwoods..in the tank corkbark in the tank


With this materials, we're going to learn how to create waterfall or wood background walls at the same time! right? But not too soon...hehehe i have to take leave to work on this project...have to apply leave first. ok, folks

Let me know your thoughts

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## tarzanboy

Hi, it the GS foam spray it for you to create a artificial wall where you purchase it and how much for that seem that all your materials is gather looking forward to see your tank soon, as I now planing for my second rainforest tank also  :Smile:

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## Wild Ginger

Eddy, I just checked with JM and these woods have not been treated yet. So you can use these as a background if you decide to do so. As for attaching it to the back, my only concern is that the silicon work has to be generously applied to ensure that the wood stays firmly to the back wall. As it's dry when you apply the silicon. When the tank is filled with water, the wood will be buoyant and that's when you'll see if your silicon application is substantial enough to hold it down in the water. 

Alternatively, you can choose to soak the woods first and just let them sink and stack them up loosely in the tank.

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## eddy planer

Thanks Phillipe,

Do you think this straight wood look nice or natural for submerse or top background and will it leech the water?

If this ok, I will lay them behind the eggcrate with either GS or black silicon or screwing them behind the eggcrate with plastic screws to secure them after soak them for a week.

Where can I purchase mistking system in Singapore?

Let me know your thoughts , bro.

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## Wild Ginger

The wood from JM will not leech tannins into the water unlike driftwoods and tree fern barks. Since the wood is elongated and mostly straight. I suggest you arrange them in a random criss cross way to mimick fallen branches from trees into puddles of water. Some of it can be sticking out of the water against the back wall. 

Try doing a 'dry' arrangement of the woods before actually placing them in their final positions. In such a way, you can adjust till the positions are deemed aesthetically nice to you.

Use silicon to fix them in their places. With plastic screws, it's more hassle of a job and the drill holes in the wood will expand when submerged, so the screws won't fit after a while thus endangering the whole construction.

Mistkings are not available in Singapore. If you wish, you could place an order with them via their website. www.mistking.com

Just to add, if you use a mister, make sure you have an outlet where excess water can be drained off. If not, your paludarium will become a drowned forest in not time! :Grin: 

Regards,
Phillipe.

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## vinz

> ...
> 
> *Thanks to the guys at AQ (I'm in the process of creating their new site: check it out)*, I was able to pick up the largest OHS tank that's made - 6 x 2.5 x 2 with 15mm thick glass panel--- for a mere $150 2nd hand with free delivery!!!! ...


Hi Eddy,

What new site are you creating for us?  :Razz:  A typo?

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## eddy planer

Oops Vinz,

Sorry . wrong typo I mean this site my thread lah! i type so zealous, type till i blur blur liao... :Razz:

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## eddy planer

Yo folks

I just bought some more materials the 9 straight long logs of 4ft long, 2 more white eggcrate and 4 pcs of 9 inches PVC pipe ( support false flooring) today.

Hmmm i really need to clean and disinfect straight long wood as they had been store there for long time, noticed they were a lots of bugs, mud and white fungus when i start choosing for the best straight long log. But alas those wood already weighs a ton....oooh my poor back!

4b.JPG

But i find the wood is difficult to disinfect if I using bleach due to the interaction of the wood with the bleach and typically wood should not be reused unless soak them with boiling hot water.But i did it anyway, so what i did is to disinfect the wood, I wrapped them with long towel soaked in a 10% bleach solution 90% water solution for 10 minutes and rinse with 2 large pots of boiling water, then let dry for 48 hrs if not dry, another 48hrs.

But i would still be worried about something from the wood will leaching out over time from the bleach. Cross-fingers, hopefully this wood didnt , folks!


I planning to lay these 4 ft long straight log horizontal as the background will be planing to lay behind the eggcrate and bond them with liquid nail the kind of adhesive for wood bonding .. And so it begins this Saturday. I'll be updating and upload more project pix each week as the project progresses. Just be patience, folks

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## eddy planer

Hi Folks

So I made some more progress today, these are the materials,a heavy duty egg crate, small cable tie and the net to build the background support.

pix1.JPG

pix8.JPG
So here's what the paludarium background with pots will looked like after it was all done. So what do you think, folks?

to be continue...

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## eddy planer

Hi folks

I am very happy with the way it turned out. When starting something like this, it isn't too hard to form a general idea of what the tank should look like upon completion, but once I get all the materials (which don't exactly match the imagine originally conceived), it's always nice when they can be added together to form something that exceeds the conception, isn't?

Next comes the siliconing of the wood, cork bark and little pots with black and beige sealant 
p3a.jpg p4a.jpg

GS the Great Stuff in action..taking some places .
p5a.jpg p6a.jpg

to be continue..folks

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## eddy planer

Next day, I then carved off the shiny coat of the GS so that it would adhere to the coco bedding after the GS fully cured

P8a.JPG P10a.JPG

P12a.JPGP13b.JPG

Let it set a day or so on its side and it now looks like this and my primary background is now completed!!!!

P14a.JPG

Now that I have the background pretty much done at this point, I will work on the bottom...mainly the focus point,the waterfall.
Next week, I'll probably use GS the Great stuff and number of woods for the water fall,false bottom and layout of water piping system (filter) and electrical connection. Wow alot of work need to be done...

Thank for viewing ,folks

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## dkk08

looking very good eddy! U might wanna check out this link on large Vivarium 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...stions-24.html

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## limz_777

nice project

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## Ben555

Just curious,

is it possible to setup a vivarium outdoor?

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## dkk08

as in a green house vivarium? Definitely you can!  :Well done:

----------


## 69efan69

any update bro?

----------


## dkk08

Yo Eddy! Update?? Its X'mas in 25 days!

----------


## eddy planer

yeah folks,

Sorry for the delay,

I got a big problem and very challenging . I need to hunt for water proof materials like water proof and non toxic cement mortar, sealer and wood glue. I managed to buy cement and wood glue for my support base.

The next question is I still know nuts about poster painting for my support base after I complete the cement mortar work.

Anyone can advice me...poster painting or help me to paint greenish brown base. 

Will upload the support base when I done this week.

----------


## blackBRUSHalgae

Sorry cant help much~ but totally looking forward to your updates!!! Cheers! All the best!!

----------


## dkk08

Hey Eddy, which part of the west are u located? Do u know the stretch of Toh Tuck Rd? there's a no. of Hardware/paint shop there, perhaps you can find what you're looking for there... 

Not sure I understand what you mean by support base unless you're talking about a "false bottom" kind of base. A pic will be good. But what I did last time was get those normal type of spray paint from the hardware shops and just spray... I would flush the tank a few times and leave some water in for a week or 2 before putting any flora/fauna in... that tank lasted about 1-2 years before some crickets decided to chew on the "Mountain" and had to decom the tank before I moved  :Roll Eyes:  :Grin: 

looking forward to your updates 




> yeah folks,
> 
> Sorry for the delay,
> 
> I got a big problem and very challenging . I need to hunt for water proof materials like water proof and non toxic cement mortar, sealer and wood glue. I managed to buy cement and wood glue for my support base.
> 
> The next question is I still know nuts about poster painting for my support base after I complete the cement mortar work.
> 
> Anyone can advice me...poster painting or help me to paint greenish brown base. 
> ...

----------


## eddy planer

Hi Folks,

Sorry keep you guys waiting....at last...



I've completed to construct the false bottom platform with screen and center waterfall piece. that's going to be a blast.





I then started cemented 3 layers of waterproof cement with construction sand on each side... few days of curing time on each layer. rough sanding. 
as described above. 





Next I started the painting with acrylic paint . I tested the paint on a small area and waited for it to dry to make adjustments and see how it would look. You can see that in the bottom left. I also spray thick glaze of epoxy seal the acrylic paint and make sure it dries right. 







Here is the completed back wall in place with "rock platform",the waterfall feature wood are in place with black silicon. It was time to add the gravel to the front slit. 

Stay tune...next week will be plumbing and water testing .

----------


## Fuzzy

Looking good, keep us updated!

And WHOAH 3000L/hr for a 4ft paludrium is a huge amount of flow/filtration, lol.

----------


## dkk08

very very nice eddy! Love that buttress root on the right!

----------


## eddy planer

hi fuzzy,

correction!..this 3000l/hr is for 6ft tank lah, actually barely feel much water torrent as it been create into both waterfall and misting system.

----------


## David Moses Heng

eddy, you just took my breath away...

----------


## limz_777

update looking real good

----------


## vinz

Looking good!!!  :Shocked:

----------


## stormhawk

By the way Eddy, I remember seeing a very old Eheim misting system for paludariums/terrariums over at Qian Hu, at their retail section. I don't remember the model number, but it is very old, and probably out of production. Here's a picture of the box:



Image from http://www.shop.trilbytropicals.com/...?categoryId=14

Another thing, did you plan out the fauna already? For a 6 foot paludarium, you can do wonders if you get the mix of fauna right.  :Grin:

----------


## eddy planer

Hi Storm,

Planning to buy a recycled humidifier from Cash Converter. I had seen brand new humidifier for less than SGD20 in that place.

As for the misting spray, I'm very afraid that will flood the flora like monsoon season.

Things to buy

1. Glass top for 6ft tank ( to maintain 90%RH)
2. Flora from Far East Flora nursery and Teo's 
3. Medias (bacteria house?) for Sump and Laguna canister with UV , anyone recommend me?

As for fauna...that i have to wait and allow my paludarium's parameter to establish first , and may take 1-2 months time. Fauna more likely to be lampeye killies/ cherries or archerfishes/ crabs or maybe a red tail gourami.

Any suggestion?

----------


## dkk08

Hi Eddy,

for fauna u can try world farm at 15 Bah Soon Pah Rd... 

the humidifier is a good way to go as I currently run one for my 2.5ft cube tank... will try and post a pic if possible

----------


## Fuzzy

> hi fuzzy,
> 
> correction!..this 3000l/hr is for 6ft tank lah, actually barely feel much water torrent as it been create into both waterfall and misting system.


Ah doh, yeah I typoed, I knew it was a 6ft. Oh its plumbed into the misting system, yeah I can see where that would cause significant head loss.




> Planning to buy a recycled humidifier from Cash Converter. I had seen brand new humidifier for less than SGD20 in that place.
> 
> 3. Medias (bacteria house?) for Sump and Laguna canister with UV , anyone recommend me?


Word of caution concerning humidifiers, I'm guessing you won't want to go with a steam based unit because of the increase in temperatures in the paludrium, which only leaves the ultrasonic vaporizer type.

The ultrasonic transducer plates are often not built to last, especially on cheaper or older units. They tend to fail after awhile, especially if they are cycled on and off repeatedly. 

Also if they run for extended periods of time, a lot of lime / scale deposits will build up, requiring a fairly regular cleaning.

As for media recommendations, I think most of us would recommend Biohome or Biohome Plus, aside from its price I've not had any problems with this media.

----------


## David Moses Heng

> Hi Eddy,
> 
> for fauna u can try world farm at 15 Bah Soon Pah Rd... 
> 
> the humidifier is a good way to go as I currently run one for my 2.5ft cube tank... will try and post a pic if possible



interesting... mind sharing what are the faunas they have there?

----------


## dkk08

> interesting... mind sharing what are the faunas they have there?


k think I've misquoted... faunas = animals flora = plants/flowers 

I meant to say flora at World farm...  :Grin: 

as for fauna well lets just say its a jungle out there  :Kiss:

----------


## David Moses Heng

wa lau...
i thought i can restart my 2 2feet tank... :Razz:

----------


## David Moses Heng

> By the way Eddy, I remember seeing a very old Eheim misting system for paludariums/terrariums over at Qian Hu, at their retail section. I don't remember the model number, but it is very old, and probably out of production. Here's a picture of the box:
> 
> 
> 
> Image from http://www.shop.trilbytropicals.com/...?categoryId=14
> 
> Another thing, did you plan out the fauna already? For a 6 foot paludarium, you can do wonders if you get the mix of fauna right.



not there anymore.

was at QH last week with family. Did not see it... Alternatively you may want to try farmart.

----------


## dkk08

> wa lau...
> i thought i can restart my 2 2feet tank...


u can still start mah bro  :Wink:  :Wink:

----------


## David Moses Heng

> u can still start mah bro


come along for the proposed outing?

----------


## stormhawk

> not there anymore.
> 
> was at QH last week with family. Did not see it... Alternatively you may want to try farmart.


Probably out of stock I guess. It was a long time when I last dropped by at QH to visit the farm. Never found anything I actually wanted.

@eddy:

Depending on how deep the water section will be, and the eventual water parameters, you can have all sorts of fish in there. By the way, if you need floating plants, I got a ton of Salvinia to give away. Don't mind contributing them to your tank.  :Grin: 

I would suggest using Copella arnoldi, if you're going with an Amazonian-style set-up complete with bromeliads and other broad-leaved plants. Then you can see them doing the egg laying thing on overhanging leaves. IMO, more fun than keeping Archerfishes, since those guys require a brackish set-up.

----------


## dkk08

> come along for the proposed outing?


what outing?? How come I don't know? Do PM me, thanks!

----------


## David Moses Heng

check the field trip section lah. :Grin:

----------


## eddy planer

> Probably out of stock I guess. It was a long time when I last dropped by at QH to visit the farm. Never found anything I actually wanted.
> 
> @eddy:
> 
> Depending on how deep the water section will be, and the eventual water parameters, you can have all sorts of fish in there. By the way, if you need floating plants, I got a ton of Salvinia to give away. Don't mind contributing them to your tank. 
> 
> I would suggest using Copella arnoldi, if you're going with an Amazonian-style set-up complete with bromeliads and other broad-leaved plants. Then you can see them doing the egg laying thing on overhanging leaves. IMO, more fun than keeping Archerfishes, since those guys require a brackish set-up.



Thanks for your awesome advice, Storm!

Pass me some Salvinia,  :Jump for joy: 

But where can i find this rare Copella Arnodi! How's many this splash tetra can i keep?

----------


## stormhawk

I remember seeing them at C328 some time back. Probably Gan's fish farm has them. You can keep several pairs in your tank. If you want the Salvinia, drop me a pm with your contact. I'll sms you directly eddy. Collection's in Bukit Batok. I still got a lot of them in my 4 foot tank.  :Laughing:

----------


## limz_777

i remember seeing Copella arnoldi in one of the amazon documentary , really special way of reproducing

----------


## carlfsk

> not there anymore.
> 
> was at QH last week with family. Did not see it... Alternatively you may want to try farmart.


still have. Saw 2 sets there... But then, it's half a grand each.

----------


## Blue Whale

Eddy!!!!

When you have the time to reply, help me out on this thread too:
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=63192

=D Thanks! ha ha...

----------


## Blue Whale

Eddy, are you talking about the Salvinia minima? 11th picture on the left row.

http://www.thegreenaquarium.com/articles/pictures.shtml

----------


## eddy planer

Hi BW

Yes the picture is Salvinia minima and is similar to salvinia natans but i want them for newly setting up palu for controlling nitrates.

hope this will help you..bro

----------


## Blue Whale

I gathered my flow rate might be too strong if I have a 800 pump. I will look for 400 or 600 pump (if any). Still thinking...External ones might not be a choice at the moment...too strong. Although very tempting, I know can't for the moment.

I drew out the 1st concept, rough one and posted in Operation Maximus.

----------


## cdckjn

Great Job! Eddy. Finally posting something on your thread. Seen your acrylic paint - looks super god, bro!

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks 

thanks so much for being so encouraging..

I promise that this 1st time ever , a Palu monster is going to be great and wont disappoint you for that. :Wink:

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks

Here it is, finally my first ever 6ft paludarium is now almost 80% complete when the water piping system, waterfall and with the flora in place. I wanted to purchase humidifier, mini ventilation fan, misting system and more flora yesterday but unable do do due to I'm now on biz trip till next 20 Dec. Hopefully this 6 ft palu will be a blast Xmas present for me!

here the video taking of my first palu.






comments please

----------


## Fuzzy

Looks nice! What other plants are you intending to grow in there?

The water flow seems a little noisy, but I'm guessing that because of the way the mic in your video camera picked it up?

----------


## stormhawk

Hi Eddy,

Nice work on the paludarium so far. You used the whole bag of Salvinia I gave you? It carpets the water surface real fast in bright light and with some liquid fert dosed.

Yeah like Fuzzy, I noticed the water flow is quite noisy. Sounds like an impeller hitting something. Is it coming all from a single point? Because if you diffused the flow over a wider area, it might reduce the noise.

----------


## limz_777

looks more complete with plants , nice update

----------


## eddy planer

> Yeah like Fuzzy, I noticed the water flow is quite noisy. Sounds like an impeller hitting something. Is it coming all from a single point? Because if you diffused the flow over a wider area, it might reduce the noise.


Thanks for the comments..folks

yeah, you right. Do you notice when i video cam at the back of the support and you may notice there bubbles flow out from the pipe, actually the water level is half the height of my return pump ..not enough water to suck out .

Yes i poured all out..still very little. Can i have more please.

Let me know your thoughts

----------


## dkk08

very nice indeed Eddy! More plants would be great! 

Some suggestions in deco and plants... I found this nice Palm Tree Pod/Flower at World Farm very nice, its hard and woody

Plants wise maybe a Neoregelia or a nice big Vriesea as centre piece? For the background maybe Dischidia or Lycopodium Squarrom (all of them can be found at World Farm as of last sat) 

Can have 1 or 2 Begonia to cover up the Hose outlet too  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Perhaps you might want to consider changing the pump to a smaller one? Or filling the water up to a higher mark? If the pump is not submerged by water, it might overheat within the impeller's chamber and burn out. I'd rather not risk that if I was you.

As for the Salvinia, I can pass you another bag. Harvesting again later or tomorrow, because they're spreading AGAIN.  :Laughing:

----------


## cdckjn

Good job brother. You have to fill up the water higher as the pump needs to be fully submerge in order not to overheat.

You need some fishes in the water to keep the insects away.

if you pipe the water up the to backdrop and let it stream down, you may not even need to mist it. By the way, if you split the water flow into two, the splashing noise will also be reduced.

----------


## Blue Whale

> Perhaps you might want to consider changing the pump to a smaller one? Or filling the water up to a higher mark? If the pump is not submerged by water, *it might overheat within the impeller's chamber and burn out. I'd rather not risk that if I was you.*


Arrr...Eddy, he is right about the heating part. Smaller engine or more water = higher water level = replanting.

Meanwhile thanks to your material list, it started my engine rolling again. =) Doing nicely on my end.

----------


## cbong

Impressive d.i.y. !!!!!

----------


## slowhand35

Wow Iorba,
those are excellent pics, thanks

----------


## eddy planer

> Good job brother. You have to fill up the water higher as the pump needs to be fully submerge in order not to overheat.
> 
> You need some fishes in the water to keep the insects away.
> 
> if you pipe the water up the to backdrop and let it stream down, you may not even need to mist it. By the way, if you split the water flow into two, the splashing noise will also be reduced.



Thanks for your excellent advice,

My palu's water parameter is still new, i need to establish it for another few weeks (PH 's a little high) Planning to throw in pineapple skin into my sump for few hours to establish the PH level.

As for the pipe the water up and let it stream down is not a good idea as it will flood and erosion the soil compost from the support and it will choke/ damage my support's outlet pump. So humidifier will be the best choice to keep my flora moist and healthy. 

I had already resolved the noisy return pump by balance my outlet and inlet pumps correctly.So now there is a peace on my palu. :Wink:  :Idea: 

Any ideas and improvement comments please.

----------


## eddy planer

> Impressive d.i.y. !!!!!





> Wow Iorba,
> those are excellent pics, thanks


Thank you for your encouraging... i will upload more pictures to inspire you guys more and more! :Jump for joy:

----------


## eddy planer

> very nice indeed Eddy! More plants would be great! 
> 
> Some suggestions in deco and plants... I found this nice Palm Tree Pod/Flower at World Farm very nice, its hard and woody
> 
> Plants wise maybe a Neoregelia or a nice big Vriesea as centre piece? For the background maybe Dischidia or Lycopodium Squarrom (all of them can be found at World Farm as of last sat) 
> 
> Can have 1 or 2 Begonia to cover up the Hose outlet too


Thanks for your encouraging comments!

That's will be great! I will sure look out for more.

----------


## Blue Whale

So where is the crocodile?  :Grin:

----------


## eddy planer

> So where is the crocodile?


On the way! on the way! 

You have to be patience, my palu 's water parameter isn't establish yet and may take about 1-2 months time .

----------


## blackBRUSHalgae

Seriously! I'm very very impressed! Excellent work!!! So where is the monster  :Very Happy:

----------


## Blue Whale

two to three months time I think we can invite Godzilla to come in...ha ha.  :Grin:

----------


## Blue Whale

Yo Eddy, how about some photos, we waited 1 year already...heh heh....see? 2010. And they just shown Godzilla yesternite. ^o^Y Yoh!

----------


## eddy planer

Hi BW

My flora isnt enough yet and still need to establish first. And i need more time to create misting system,getting top tempered glass panels tomorrow,more aquatic floras, 

I need to get AVA approve to allow me to keep water dragon http://www.the-lizard-lounge.com/con...ter-dragon.asp

As for water dragon, i can easy source in Malaysia but i still need AVA approval if not i just smuggle in through checkpoint lor.

Be more patience, this Monday, i'll be away for biz trip for couple of days. I want everything be completed before CNY.

----------


## Blue Whale

wow wow...mist mist, I like!

Water dragon need approval? O.O I remember had one dunno is it water lizard or water dragon...always like come out to walk walk disappear into the kitchen then appear some days later.

Okie Dokie...look forward.

----------


## limz_777

eddy are you using tile grout for the rock work ?

----------


## eddy planer

> eddy are you using tile grout for the rock work ?


Hi Limz

Happy New 2010 to you!

Tile grout isnt waterproof and will scatter into fine powder when is immerse in water for long time.Thus, this situation will leech and cloud the water.

What I'm using is the waterproof cement mixed with construction sand for my rock work. 

let me know your thoughts

----------


## Blue Whale

Actually judging from the DIY stuffs that Viva keepers have to do, I do think you will need a storeroom for all the tools and materials  :Grin:  Although I am not a viva guy, I certainly have some diy stuffs I usually would do. Not bad, this round the experience gained is quite good. Learnt a lot. What amazes me is also the way all the viva people look for materials...*sweat sweat*

----------


## dkk08

Agree with blue whale, I do have a few drawers and a cabinet to put all the tools and materials

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks,

There are few lessons that I'd nasty experienced through this monster palu and would like to share with you guys.

1.You know my palu is filtered: tank (inlet pump of 2800l/hr)-sump (with 5kg of mini bacteria house and 2kg of charcoal) - outlet pump of 3000l/hr - Laguna canister with UV light(4 kg of mini bacteria house) -tank

The inlet pump is hidden inside the rocky base support. So you know I had already done the top base filled with composite soil,peat, sand and laid out everything composite base and lapis sand . So I ran for a day to check any abnormally situation and to my horror. Guess what happen, my inlet pump seems not working inspite of switch power off and on, still no improvement. 

And i have to tear it down by cleared all the composite base, peat and fertilizer before lifting the whole rocky support to check my pump. I realized that my inlet pump got struck by the composite base which has leeches from the support. So problem has resolved by add green washing dishes sponge inside the pump to prevent any composite base or sand creep in. 

To reinstall the inlet pump back, this time i have to clear the mixture sand and base to allow the rocky support base a better and even standing and took me the whole evening till dawn. During this situation has created brownish muddy water! I did the water changing at least 5x to clear muddy water, no improvement. I did add clear aid solution.

So I realized this muddy water require filtering and I added a fine filter to clear soil composite. So i added every sump's compartments with white fine filter and it work like wonder! Within 8 hrs, all the white fine filter stained with brownish mud.Did the washing of filter 2x a day, daily till the water is much clearer than before.

2. My top glass panels been customised- made to create a high RH to allow my flora to live better. But I place my 2 units of 54W 4x T5 HO on top of the glass panel and cracked the top glass panel, not once but twice! Due to my lighting system that generate alot of heat. So I replaced 2 set of tempered glass panels.

Hope this will help you , folks

Let me know your thoughts

----------


## Blue Whale

^o^Y Precisely. Now not to forget your water pump which you also corrected the "sound" issue because the pump is basically bigger than the amount of water. So instead of registering the success first, our threads actually recorded failure so that the rest could learn. I am sure my "poison tank" photo showing the cycling process is being seen by a lot of people over and over again. I think it is worth posting the threads respectively. Well, since both of us have not finish our tank, let's continue to work together. +u +u!  :Grin:  Now, suppose I remember to go for my blood test next week...

----------


## limz_777

thanks for the info and happy 2010 to everyone too .

can the waterproof cement be able to achieve a smoother texture ?

----------


## eddy planer

> thanks for the info and happy 2010 to everyone too .
> 
> can the waterproof cement be able to achieve a smoother texture ?


hi limz

My answer is yes, waterproof cement can achieve a smoother texture if no construction sand is present. But i still prefer to mixed construction sand with waterproof cement to give me some rough surface and any mosses or creepers will easy to anchor on the rocky support base.

----------


## dkk08

> Hi folks,
> 
> There are few lessons that I'd nasty experienced through this monster palu and would like to share with you guys.
> 
> 1.You know my palu is filtered: tank (inlet pump of 2800l/hr)-sump (with 5kg of mini bacteria house and 2kg of charcoal) - outlet pump of 3000l/hr - Laguna canister with UV light(4 kg of mini bacteria house) -tank
> 
> The inlet pump is hidden inside the rocky base support. So you know I had already done the top base filled with composite soil,peat, sand and laid out everything composite base and lapis sand . So I ran for a day to check any abnormally situation and to my horror. Guess what happen, my inlet pump seems not working inspite of switch power off and on, still no improvement. 
> 
> And i have to tear it down by cleared all the composite base, peat and fertilizer before lifting the whole rocky support to check my pump. I realized that my inlet pump got struck by the composite base which has leeches from the support. So problem has resolved by add green washing dishes sponge inside the pump to prevent any composite base or sand creep in. 
> ...


I know that feeling Eddy... that's y I always try to make the inlet/outlet accessible in case of any emergency... 

as for the cover, so far I'm lucky as I've not have any cracked covers as I'm using both acrylics and glass as covers and I've 8 x 39W + 8 x 24W T5 HO... 

Maybe for the covers we can use wooden frames + somehow use stainless steel mesh...

----------


## dkk08

> hi limz
> 
> My answer is yes, waterproof cement can achieve a smoother texture if no construction sand is present. But i still prefer to mixed construction sand with waterproof cement to give me some rough surface and any mosses or creepers will easy to anchor on the rocky support base.


Hey Eddy, can take a pic of the cement you're using as I'm thinking of playing with cement on my next project  :Grin:

----------


## learner

> Transparent, beige and black silicon and also GS foam spray.


Hi Eddy, 

Amazing job with your vivarium. May I know where you got your GS from? Is it expensive?

Good luck with your project. Waiting to see more updates!

Cheers

----------


## eddy planer

> Hi Eddy, 
> 
> Amazing job with your vivarium. May I know where you got your GS from? Is it expensive?
> 
> Good luck with your project. Waiting to see more updates!
> 
> Cheers


Happy New 2010 to you! bro learner.

Thanks for the complimentary.

GS or actually common known as Great Stuff is the US brand of foam spray, we cannot find this GS brand in Spore's market. So I'm using Bostik brand, Expanda Foam from Germany, cost me SGD13.50 per bottle but bro VRAtenza said he bought SGD7-8 at Ubi. :Exasperated: 

I'm actually going to ask this bro VRAtenza to buy at least 10 bottles for my next project in late May or June.

----------


## learner

Thanks for your quick reply!! 

Waiting to see your next project!!

----------


## eddy planer

> Hey Eddy, can take a pic of the cement you're using as I'm thinking of playing with cement on my next project



Yo bro,

Happy New 2010 to you!

errr, i bought this grey waterproof cement mortar with mixture of construction sand in 2kg packet for SGD4 from one stop construction hardware in Changi Drive.

As for the pic of grey cement, i'm very sure that you have seen how cement look like grey flour. Ok i give you some tips for you to test and trail with cement. Use 4 parts of cement mix with 1 part of water, will gave you perfect mixture not watery nor lump up like a ball.

remember please wear a pair rubber gloves to play around with cement or else your hand will get rashes due to our hand's sensitive skin reaction.

Hope this will help you.

----------


## Blue Whale

=) can use disposable bowls, ice cream sticks as cement picker, sprays to control the amount of water. I did that with my white cement. And because you have both grey cement and sand now, I supposed you could keep two plastic containers (those big one for CNY tibits), put two plastic spoons inside. Since both the bowls and ice cream sticks you can disposed it after few round use, you can always use a new set the next round. Normally you will just use for one or two rounds as these are really tiring DIY jobs. If you are sculpting with your hands, yes, gloves would be prefer to. But not too thick as it is hindrance to movement also. Try those disposable handgloves which the hawkers are using. Just hope they don't tear easily.

----------


## dkk08

> Yo bro,
> 
> Happy New 2010 to you!
> 
> errr, i bought this grey waterproof cement mortar with mixture of construction sand in 2kg packet for SGD4 from one stop construction hardware in Changi Drive.
> 
> As for the pic of grey cement, i'm very sure that you have seen how cement look like grey flour. Ok i give you some tips for you to test and trail with cement. Use 4 parts of cement mix with 1 part of water, will gave you perfect mixture not watery nor lump up like a ball.
> 
> remember please wear a pair rubber gloves to play around with cement or else your hand will get rashes due to our hand's sensitive skin reaction.
> ...


thanks Eddy, will go source for the water proof cement mortar... can't wait to get my hands dirty again  :Grin:

----------


## Blue Whale

^_^ I hope you also have sculpting tools too. I had to file and sandpaper each blocks before doing spray painting. Some of these tools look like nail files, some look like key files. Basically if you goto Pasat Malam (Night Market), you can just walk around, you could just spot some cheap tools which are usable. Don't have to get branded ones. I got my files for $6.50 Diamond tools. Very fine and small ones.

----------


## eddy planer

> =) can use disposable bowls, ice cream sticks as cement picker, sprays to control the amount of water. I did that with my white cement. And because you have both grey cement and sand now, I supposed you could keep two plastic containers (those big one for CNY tibits), put two plastic spoons inside. Since both the bowls and ice cream sticks you can disposed it after few round use, you can always use a new set the next round. Normally you will just use for one or two rounds as these are really tiring DIY jobs. If you are sculpting with your hands, yes, gloves would be prefer to. But not too thick as it is hindrance to movement also. Try those disposable handgloves which the hawkers are using. Just hope they don't tear easily.


As for the white plaster to get a perfect texture, 4 parts(cups) of plaster and 1 part(cup)of water. Still the same apply to grey cement mixture or just plain mortar cement.

But be warn, after curing of cement mixture or plain cement or plaster. The whole support used to be weight less 2kg but with the cured cement mixture , the whole rocky support weight down almost 10kg! To made the matter worse,if the rocky support seems too heavy to load into the tank and once you slip it, will badly scratch the tank's glass or even crack it if ones not careful.

----------


## Blue Whale

^o^Y For mua's white cement, it is 4 part white powder, 4 part water spray, the amount is lesser. Yes, Eddy made a very valid point on the weight itself. Anyone trying out should do a test first. Personally I drop it into a coca cola cup (Clear glass, the MacDonalds cup), use a lip to cover, measure the ph, watch the cup for around two weeks or so for crumpling, bubbling, change of water color and ph before I decided to deploy. One extra step I took is to file and the sides, the bottom. Normally when it comes out of a mould, the top side is very smooth, so make sure the spread is even. I also have a wooden plank to temporary become my workbench. You know, it gets messy at time. I have a brush to sweep the extra particles into the dustbin below my table.

----------


## blackBRUSHalgae

Hello Eddy and any other fellow hobbyist who might use expanded or spray polyurethane foam, please exercise some precautions when you use this material (credits to wikipedia) 

Most of all, with the exception of cementitious foams, release toxic fumes when they burn.[14]According to the US EPA, there is insufficient data to accurately assess the potential for exposures to the toxic and environmentally harmful isocyanates which constitute 50% of the foam material.[15]Depending on usage and building codes, most foams require protection with a thermal barrier such as drywall on the interior of a house. For example a 15-minute fire rating may be required.Can shrink slightly while curing if not applied on a substrate heated to manufacturer's recommended temperature.Although CFCs are no longer used, many use HCFCs or HFCs as blowing agents. Both are potent greenhouse gases, and HCFCs have some ozone depletion potential.Most, such as Polyurethane and Isocyanate insulation, contain hazardous chemicals such as benzene and toluene. These are a potential hazard and environmental concern during raw material production, transport, manufacture, and installation.[16][17]Many foam insulations are made from petrochemicals and may be a concern for those seeking to reduce the use of fossil fuels and oil. However, some foams are becoming available that are made from renewable or recycled sources.[18]Most foams require protection from sunlight and solvents.It is difficult to retrofit some foams to an existing building structure because of the chemicals and processes involved.If one does not wear a protective mask or goggles, it is possible to temporarily impair one's vision. (2-5days)

----------


## eddy planer

[QUOTE I have a brush to sweep the extra particles into the dustbin below my table.[/QUOTE]

For me I use a 450W Karcher wet/dry vacuum cleaner to do the job, same goes to clear the recent collapsed 422 tank which spitted all over my balcony floor filled with broken glasses,lapis sand, composite soil and water easily.

Use brush to sweep still cannot clean the stained cement patches.

----------


## eddy planer

> Hello Eddy and any other fellow hobbyist who might use expanded or spray polyurethane foam, please exercise some precautions when you use this material (credits to wikipedia) 
> 
> Most of all, with the exception of cementitious foams, release toxic fumes when they burn.[14]According to the US EPA, there is insufficient data to accurately assess the potential for exposures to the toxic and environmentally harmful isocyanates which constitute 50% of the foam material.[15]Depending on usage and building codes, most foams require protection with a thermal barrier such as drywall on the interior of a house. For example a 15-minute fire rating may be required.Can shrink slightly while curing if not applied on a substrate heated to manufacturer's recommended temperature.Although CFCs are no longer used, many use HCFCs or HFCs as blowing agents. Both are potent greenhouse gases, and HCFCs have some ozone depletion potential.Most, such as Polyurethane and Isocyanate insulation, contain hazardous chemicals such as benzene and toluene. These are a potential hazard and environmental concern during raw material production, transport, manufacture, and installation.[16][17]Many foam insulations are made from petrochemicals and may be a concern for those seeking to reduce the use of fossil fuels and oil. However, some foams are becoming available that are made from renewable or recycled sources.[18]Most foams require protection from sunlight and solvents.It is difficult to retrofit some foams to an existing building structure because of the chemicals and processes involved.If one does not wear a protective mask or goggles, it is possible to temporarily impair one's vision. (2-5days)


Thanks for updated us awareness and some precautions dealing with this foam spray.

I truly aware of this situation for long time,that is why all cured foam is best to be protected by mortar cement, silicon and epoxy from heat.

I work with this foam spray with great caution and made sure my 3 kids are not around me while working. I usually wear a pair of surgeon glove to work and use a fan to blow me while working with foam spray to prevent me from inhale benzene and toluene that will cause cancer inducing. 

So bros, be very careful working , if you guys are not too sure handling this, just ask me and I'll be more than glad to assist or train you to handle such hazard project.

----------


## learner

Hi Eddy, 

1 more question: I was at the hardware store and the lady was telling me to get a small can of the foam if I don't need too much as it cannot be stored. 

Is it true? 

Thanks!

----------


## eddy planer

> Hi Eddy, 
> 
> 1 more question: I was at the hardware store and the lady was telling me to get a small can of the foam if I don't need too much as it cannot be stored. 
> 
> Is it true? 
> 
> Thanks!


Hi learner

Mind ask you what is the brand of the foam spray? 

Yes or No, i must say, you see when you use the foam spray and use only a small portion and there maybe 1/2 can remain left. Yes is still can only stored for 5 days at the most but No is the foam get cured and harden inside the can 's transfer tube which after you used.So to spray through the blockage of nozzle tube is almost impossible.

Therefore, after you used and still 1/2 can remain, you need to use satay stick or bamboo stick to clear or push the remain foam inside the nozzle tube out just after you complete your job. then my answer is Yes, you can keep for 5 days only.

May I ask what kind of project that you are working on?

Let me know your thoughts

----------


## limz_777

> Yo bro,
> 
> Happy New 2010 to you!
> 
> errr, i bought this grey waterproof cement mortar with mixture of construction sand in 2kg packet for SGD4 from one stop construction hardware in Changi Drive.
> 
> As for the pic of grey cement, i'm very sure that you have seen how cement look like grey flour. Ok i give you some tips for you to test and trail with cement. Use 4 parts of cement mix with 1 part of water, will gave you perfect mixture not watery nor lump up like a ball.
> 
> remember please wear a pair rubber gloves to play around with cement or else your hand will get rashes due to our hand's sensitive skin reaction.
> ...




i actually did enquire grout from a shop before which sell mainly tiles , but what they sell was a big bag of 25kg only , didnt need so much so i didnt buy it , was the 2 kg cement mortar you bought come premixed with sand , meaning upon request or ready packed ?

----------


## eddy planer

> i actually did enquire grout from a shop before which sell mainly tiles , but what they sell was a big bag of 25kg only , didnt need so much so i didnt buy it , was the 2 kg cement mortar you bought come premixed with sand , meaning upon request or ready packed ?


Yes , you're right. They sold 2kg ready packed premixed waterproof cement mortar with sand.

I already forgotten what the name of the hardware which is locate along Changi Drive. If you're interested let me know, but not now I'll be away for biz trip for couple of days tomorrow.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks,

My updated palu of 1 month old, look a little mature, but still acceptable .. :Razz: 

here you are:



comments, please?

----------


## limz_777

very nice , can see water lily too , how often do you mist it ?

----------


## eddy planer

hi limz

Thanks for your kind complimentary.

I have to mist at least 5x a day , will be using the misting system controlled by timer soon. I just ordered it through ebay.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks

It's time for me to introduce fauna into my palu without destroy my flora. I'm think of get those fauna without offend the AVA strict laws.

Tell me folks, what do you think of this fauna below:


Kaloula pulchra and Bufo melanostictus 

Any feed back?

----------


## limz_777

just be careful of handling toads , their skin is quite toxic

----------


## David Moses Heng

any loose pieces of cork barkl to spare me? i n eed very little to finish my 2feet vampire liar.

----------


## dkk08

> Hi folks
> 
> It's time for me to introduce fauna into my palu without destroy my flora. I'm think of get those fauna without offend the AVA strict laws.
> 
> Tell me folks, what do you think of this fauna below:
> 
> 
> Kaloula pulchra and Bufo melanostictus 
> 
> Any feed back?


Hi Eddy, I doubt you will want those 2 frogs/toads in your beautiful setup. The Painted bullfrog and the Asian Toad likes to dig and they'll go all out to destroy your setup without intention. Also the painted bullfrog excretes a thick mucus like liquid from its body and will sort of "dirty" your setup and trust me its thicker and stickier then erm our mucus  :Grin: 

IMHO they're not ideal for your setup... go for white's (if you can find them) or for the water section, you can get the newts (if we can see them this weekend) or if you are lucky, you can even find the 4 line treefrog outside your house.  :Wink:

----------


## David Moses Heng

> 4 line treefrog .



how's the fellow taht i gave you doing?

----------


## David Moses Heng

> Hi folks
> 
> It's time for me to introduce fauna into my palu without destroy my flora. I'm think of get those fauna without offend the AVA strict laws.
> 
> Tell me folks, what do you think of this fauna below:
> 
> 
> Kaloula pulchra and Bufo melanostictus 
> 
> Any feed back?


go for the newts. they are available in the neighbourhood LFS. Just take a very very close look and you can find them.

----------


## dkk08

> any loose pieces of cork barkl to spare me? i n eed very little to finish my 2feet vampire liar.


Go NA (Nature Aquarium) and buy? Or why not we try and source for a good and cheap source and we do bulk order because it seems many of us are using it... and they make good backgound for Tillandsias (airplants) too  :Smile:

----------


## eddy planer

> you are lucky, you can even find the 4 line treefrog outside your house.


I'd study and did my research and decided to drop those toads, you are right Desmond. They are avid burrower and surely all my flora sure gone upside down. All my effects gone down with ugly toads!

4 line treefrog? sounds very interesting! How to catch them? Desmond , can we go frog hunting or we drive up all the way to KL just to own GTF? 

Let me know your thoughts

----------


## eddy planer

> Go NA (Nature Aquarium) and buy? Or why not we try and source for a good and cheap source and we do bulk order because it seems many of us are using it... and they make good backgound for Tillandsias (airplants) too


David, In my palu, I'd pulled out few strips of loose bark of 2-3ft long(washed with 4 parts water 1 part bleach) from Farrer Park carpark which locate Farrer Park Swimming Pool and decorated it together with others. My creepers grow well with it.no problem is FOC!

----------


## dkk08

> I'd study and did my research and decided to drop those toads, you are right Desmond. They are avid burrower and surely all my flora sure gone upside down. All my effects gone down with ugly toads!
> 
> 4 line treefrog? sounds very interesting! How to catch them? Desmond , can we go frog hunting or we drive up all the way to KL just to own GTF? 
> 
> Let me know your thoughts


well its best not to discuss hunting of any type here, sure get infraction/lecture from MODs  :Shocked:   :Grin:

----------


## BFG

Ahem! Relax guys, just be responsible and mature and everything should be just fine. Anything else, there's the pm function. Now back to the regular program.....

Eddy, I firmly think that using frogs or toad is not in the tank best interest. What your tank need is for something that is always on the move and does not disrupt the set up. Frogs or toad would just sit there and might occasionally jump around for a while. You need something unique and exotic in that water column.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi Mohamad,

Thanks a millions , good advice you gave me.

Actually i hate some critters mess up my painfully flora setup.

Do you have any fauna in mind to beautify my palu?

----------


## dkk08

> how's the fellow taht i gave you doing?



He's great bigger and looking for a mate

----------


## dkk08

> Hi Mohamad,
> 
> Thanks a millions , good advice you gave me.
> 
> Actually i hate some critters mess up my painfully flora setup.
> 
> Do you have any fauna in mind to beautify my palu?


I was thinking of crabs but they hide even more then frogs, my Ofc new vivarium has 3 vampire crab and it has been a week since I last see them sigh

----------


## fotoudavid

I can only envy, perhaps i will do one.... but small one, as back problem, and space constraints.

Recommend how small should i build? Roughly the cost involve? If doing an 3 ft, i estimate the sum to reach at least $500 to $800.

----------


## dkk08

> I can only envy, perhaps i will do one.... but small one, as back problem, and space constraints.
> 
> Recommend how small should i build? Roughly the cost involve? If doing an 3 ft, i estimate the sum to reach at least $500 to $800.


well the cost depends on the materials and flora/fauna you're getting... go do some research on the theme and the flora/fauna and from there you'll be able to estimate the cost  :Smile:

----------


## fotoudavid

> well the cost depends on the materials and flora/fauna you're getting... go do some research on the theme and the flora/fauna and from there you'll be able to estimate the cost


Yes sir will do that, think i will start small, then when my CO likes it, then can do a bigger one, back break also do, haha.

Space is the constraint.

----------


## eddy planer

> Yes sir will do that, think i will start small, then when my CO likes it, then can do a bigger one, back break also do, haha.
> 
> Space is the constraint.



Hi fotoudavid,

That's depend since you like to gave it a shot, to start small as 2ft or even 1ft tank.

I'll help you to think of, the cost factors like what desmond say all soley depend on how you like.

I spend for my 6ft palu , is almost SGD900! But the materials alone are SGD350 to DIY the themes.

Let me know how do you want to start small like 1-2ft palu or viva tank?

----------


## dkk08

yap, do more research, go to the following website, see how their setup are done, what materials they use and how much they spend... alot of things can be DIY or ahem collected from Nature (fallen twigs and branches hor, what you guys thinking of huh :Roll Eyes:  :Grin: )


Dendroboard
The Planted Tank
Aquatic Plant Central
Vivarium Forum 
Wild Sky - Tons of photos 

if you see my tank thread and how much I spent on the upgrades, you might not believe it too but its true, I mean I spent about 2 months reading up and looking at tons of pictures before deciding on the materials and design.

----------


## limz_777

i use to see cork bark selling at almost all the LFS , now only NA have stocks of it ? is there any other place that have stock of it in north area ?

----------


## fotoudavid

Hi Eddy, how you get the egg crates to stick to the glass tank? Will not fall?

----------


## fotoudavid

> Hi fotoudavid,
> 
> That's depend since you like to gave it a shot, to start small as 2ft or even 1ft tank.
> 
> I'll help you to think of, the cost factors like what desmond say all soley depend on how you like.
> 
> I spend for my 6ft palu , is almost SGD900! But the materials alone are SGD350 to DIY the themes.
> 
> Let me know how do you want to start small like 1-2ft palu or viva tank?


Thanks bro, was thinking to start a 4 by 1 by 1.5ft, but think you are right, start small and learn from the mistake.

----------


## fotoudavid

> yap, do more research, go to the following website, see how their setup are done, what materials they use and how much they spend... alot of things can be DIY or ahem collected from Nature (fallen twigs and branches hor, what you guys thinking of huh)
> 
> 
> Dendroboard
> The Planted Tank
> Aquatic Plant Central
> Vivarium Forum 
> Wild Sky - Tons of photos 
> 
> if you see my tank thread and how much I spent on the upgrades, you might not believe it too but its true, I mean I spent about 2 months reading up and looking at tons of pictures before deciding on the materials and design.


Haha later i got caught how...... :Laughing:

----------


## dkk08

> Haha later i got caught how......


erm get caught for what? get caught for collecting fallen twigs and branches I doubt the NEA folks will do that...

----------


## carlfsk

> hi limz
> 
> Thanks for your kind complimentary.
> 
> I have to mist at least 5x a day , will be using the misting system controlled by timer soon. I just ordered it through ebay.


Hey Eddy, what type of misting system your using? Thought of getting one as well. The Eheim one is really expensive man.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks,

I'm still waiting for my very fine spray misting system from ebay(US) and I'd already purchased a powerful humidifier and tested it.

It gave me a whoops!! that strike me that my palu is like hiking through misting jungle!! :Shocked:  I love my palu's side-effect theme, almost like Indian Jones Jungle Theme or King Kong's jungle theme

Folks,
I'll upload more pic of my special misting system setting up, humidifier setting up and the palu's King Kong jungle themes latest by Wednesday or earlier.

Please be very patience with me,i had been enquire for more information how to convince AVA to approval of I bringing in water dragon from Malaysia.Any brothers 's advice and comments please?

----------


## David Moses Heng

how's your FBN?

----------


## eddy planer

> how's your FBN?


They climbed up my palu buttered root and stay there and never move since yesterday! I wondered they got too much stress due to excessive traveling. :Surprised:

----------


## David Moses Heng

> They climbed up my palu buttered root and stay there and never move since yesterday! I wondered they got too much stress due to excessive traveling.



entice them with food... if not observe for a few days them ask for help!! :Grin:  make sure they stay moist if not become bbq FBN :Shocked:

----------


## eddy planer

> entice them with food... if not observe for a few days them ask for help!! make sure they stay moist if not become bbq FBN


They BBQ ..cannot be, they are in constantly under humidifier effect mist. So the RH and humidity rates is very high will continue moist them, but i will take your advice to entice them with tuberfix worm tomorrow, then.

----------


## stormhawk

You can easily entice them with small mealworms that just molted, and baby crickets. My previous newts fed on those without fail. Frozen bloodworm usually gets their attention under water, or newborn guppy fry.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi Folks!

Guess what I 'd told you last Saturday, I just received an expecting parcel from Ebay today! :Jump for joy: 

Let take a good look at that  :Angel: 



Guess what is that?




Is the fine mist spray for my Palu!!! :Jump for joy: 




Going to set up that fella real soon... stay tune , folks! :Smile:

----------


## limz_777

does it comes with a pump ?

----------


## eddy planer

Hi limz

No, i didn't buy the pump. I find it too pricey about USD280 with shipping charges, so i forgo it. :Shocked: 

I still can use the misting kit to mist my palu either using 3000l/hr pump or just connect directly from my tap water. :Idea:

----------


## David Moses Heng

care to share how much you spend on the misting kit?

----------


## eddy planer

> care to share how much you spend on the misting kit?


The misting kit isn't cheap either :Crying: '

Its worth SGD49.00 with shipping charges :Shocked:

----------


## stormhawk

Well, SGD 49 inclusive of shipping charges is not as expensive as compared to buying the Eheim unit.  :Laughing:

----------


## dkk08

> Well, SGD 49 inclusive of shipping charges is not as expensive as compared to buying the Eheim unit.


that's true... 

hey Eddy I actually just found a local company dealing with spray nozzles, have emailed them, will let all know their pricing and products available soon.  :Grin:

----------


## eddy planer

Desmond,

pm me the company name and their contact and address, please. :Smile:

----------


## fotoudavid

Eddy any new pictures to share on the full tank? :Jump for joy:

----------


## eddy planer

> Eddy any new pictures to share on the full tank?


 No problem...soon upload more pictures

but please be patience. :Opps:

----------


## limz_777

> Hi limz
> 
> No, i didn't buy the pump. I find it too pricey about USD280 with shipping charges, so i forgo it.
> 
> I still can use the misting kit to mist my palu either using 3000l/hr pump or just connect directly from my tap water.



i too think usd 280 its too pricey , unless you have many tanks to mist then it might be worth to buy it.

will the pressure from a powerhead or tap be strong enough to create the mist ?

----------


## fisbike

Thanks for the update but if can provide more pictures would be better.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi folks

To my dismay, I'd realized that the misting kit which i purchased over the Ebay, turns out too small for my monster palu. See take the look at it. :Exasperated: 



Look at it below, the 3 misting nozzles are within 1ft measured with my reading glasses.



And look at this too short for my 6ft monster. I have to purchase vinyl tubing(specially for water pressure) , water proof fittings for specialty water pressure and cutter to modify longer.

look at this 40ft white vinyl tubing (for water pressure)




the water misting nozzles



Look at the tap water pressure connector.









Stay tune , folks

----------


## eddy planer

Look at my newest toy, the new misting kit, after modify from its original to customize length.





So now i'd done the misting system

----------


## eddy planer

I just find out the beauty monster really turn out well with misting kits. look at the effects that beautify my whole tank really look really awesome!

Now i just completed the setting up of misting system 




Sees the full blast with water and misting set looking at so stunning!

----------


## limz_777

love the last pic , foggy look

----------


## dkk08

hey Eddy looking really good! we should start a club or something or maybe help David build a 15 or 10 ft Palu? It'll be a darn good experience for all of us  :Laughing:

----------


## stormhawk

Haha Eddy, you should have gotten these instead:

http://www.kaz-usa.com/mist/Mist%20&%20Cool.htm

22 feet of tubing for you to play with. The one you purchased, seems to work better when attached to a high speed fan. 

http://www.kaz-usa.com/mist/Mist%20Fan.htm

The tank is looking great though.  :Well done:

----------


## eddy planer

> hey Eddy looking really good! we should start a club or something or maybe help David build a 15 or 10 ft Palu? It'll be a darn good experience for all of us


Sure why not!

Not for darn good experience, actually is for our craze, sexy passionate in name of palu!

----------


## eddy planer

> Haha Eddy, you should have gotten these instead:
> 
> http://www.kaz-usa.com/mist/Mist%20&%20Cool.htm
> 
> 22 feet of tubing for you to play with. The one you purchased, seems to work better when attached to a high speed fan. 
> 
> http://www.kaz-usa.com/mist/Mist%20Fan.htm
> 
> The tank is looking great though.


Hi storm!

Thanks for the links.

I seen that long ago, find a little too pricy actually. That's why i got it from ebay, cheaper by USD10 lor. :Grin: 

Now i still got about 40ft tubing planning to install more mist nozzles which i can source locally. 

Now i know why Ehiem is pricey for mist system. Reason is the booster diagram motor pump and the mist nozzles. The links that you gave me earlier, the booster pump of 50-300 psi is already from USD 300-USD500 whereas locally made is SGD 300-SGD450.

Actually , I'm in favor of using booster pump to pump the reservoir mixed with fertilizer and aged water instead of direct water tap(chlorine infected will affect my fauna) to mist my background flora. 

Now i've to save up to buy booster pump which can be as pricey as my room air con! Alamak! :Shocked:

----------


## Blue Whale

^^ time to buy toto. 10m upcoming for Chinese New Year.
just kena $80(if you are monitoring boring week thread), not much but not bad already. Small small.

----------


## dkk08

Hey Eddy, look at this monster Vivarium from bro Energy from Dendroboard forum... this is an inspiration to look at man! 

Updated Full tank Shots as of Today 22/01/10 (look at the 5th Pic and see if you recognize that fish? We saw it at Qian Hu last weekend)

----------


## blue33

looks like lots of algae clean up need to be done.  :Opps:

----------


## fotoudavid

Ultimate tank!!! Thanks for sharing.

----------


## stormhawk

Oooh I spy an_ Erpetoichthys_. First time seeing it being used for such a set-up. Nice work on that though by the guy on the Dendroboard forums.  :Well done:

----------


## eddy planer

Hi Desmond!

Hmm that an awesome palu! :Shocked:  :Shocked: 

Ok , now i better start hunting and order for at least 50-80kg of slates and lava rocks from Indonesia, will tear down my current palu in June to create another exciting palu like that but maybe King Kong jungle themes with ''volcano'' sprout fogging mist and the water (lava) stream down the "volcano".

Do you wanna to involve in my next project in June or July only after i buy all the materials?

----------


## dkk08

> Hi Desmond!
> 
> Hmm that an awesome palu!
> 
> Ok , now i better start hunting and order for at least 50-80kg of slates and lava rocks from Indonesia, will tear down my current palu in June to create another exciting palu like that but maybe King Kong jungle themes with ''volcano'' sprout fogging mist and the water (lava) stream down the "volcano".
> 
> Do you wanna to involve in my next project in June or July only after i buy all the materials?


Hee wha so sayang ah tear down the current palu so soon? Don't tear down lar... order a 10x3x2.5ft tank lar  :Laughing:  then you can do something like that already 

oh I would definitely like to be involve (no need to pay me by the hour hor) but June I'll be in China for 10-14 days (holiday) so we confirm again 

but but u need CO approve anot?

----------


## dkk08

> looks like lots of algae clean up need to be done.


You've a keen eye bro (or maybe I just cock eye  :Grin: ) true coz the owner did have some problem trying to keep the water clean and pristine due to the volume of the tank as well as lighting and air circulation issues

----------


## blue33

how about this one? recently on Taiwan International Aquarium Expo

pic taken from blog.sina.com.tw

----------


## eddy planer

hi Adrian

I like the 1st pic, 60% look like mine, almost wood everywhere but i got more volume of water to swim, lah. :Grin:

----------


## Blue Whale

Wah....Eddy you say Adrian's scape look like yours...ha ha. I think it's different. Adrian handpick his stuffs.  :Razz: 

Just saw the thread that you guys went out last week. Did you all enjoy the trip?

----------


## eddy planer

Hi BW

You must be mistaken!  :Confused: 

Adrian uploaded 2 Taiwan International Aquarium Expo pics, which I mentioned the 1st palu pic did look like mine, lah. :Smile:

----------


## Blue Whale

Oh...that's what you meant. So how was your trip last week? I still recuperating here.

----------


## fotoudavid

Bro eddy, you purchased the archer fish??

----------


## eddy planer

> Bro eddy, you purchased the archer fish??



Naw, my wife bought her favourite fishes, total nearly 150 Cardinal and rummynoses.I cannot stop her as she got the share in this 6ft palu.

So the Archer fish is not suitable for my palu, you know i know what that archer fish capable of.  :Crying:

----------


## fotoudavid

It's a pity......... :Crying: 

I intend to keep but worried about it as it is brackish water fish.

----------


## eddy planer

Hi Folks,

I realized my 3 misting nozzles isn't mist my flora enough inspite of with a heavy duty humidifier.So it's time to order some.

Today, I just had already ordered 7 more nozzles for USD40 with shipping charges from ebay and will expected delivery by 8 working days. :Smile: 

Looking for for another full power misting in 10 days time!

Now I have to start draft a customize acrylic bracket for install 10 misting nozzles and fit into my palu. nicely.

Will update you my misting bracket when I done.

----------


## dkk08

Hey Eddy, I think you should seriously plan on starting another bigger project... the $ you're spending on this Palu is seriously escalating!  :Shocked:  :Grin:

----------


## blue33

Last Sunday went to Far East Flora, saw they had this mini misting thing, i think it can be use for the setup.  :Smile:

----------


## felix_fx2

> Hey Eddy, I think you should seriously plan on starting another bigger project... the $ you're spending on this Palu is seriously escalating!


The poison has removed eddy's budget haha.  :Laughing:

----------


## limz_777

> Last Sunday went to Far East Flora, saw they had this mini misting thing, i think it can be use for the setup.



those used for mini fengshui pond ? ultrasonic type ?

----------


## blue33

Not sure what it is thought, maybe can use, those were in the cabinet.  :Smile:

----------


## Blue Whale

Eddy,

My wc(White Cement) steps are showing some rounded pops, although no visible bubbling. Seems like the 3 weeks test still not sufficient to test a material. I will most likely be testing other materials in prep. for another bigger project one year from now. Like to thank you for your guidance, might need even more advice in the near future.  :Smile:  Yes, cement is the next.
==================================================
Blue33,

I will need to thank you. Watching you and unclerobin conversed in other threads just triggered the start of my 9th transformation. Feels like a new area in the brain has just been activated. I suddenly can understand some of the things I could not in the past.  :Smile:  It is not going to be just state of mind but a set of new skillsets will be activated. I am quite excited about this.
==================================================
Thank you both of you.

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## eddy planer

> Eddy,
> 
> My wc(White Cement) steps are showing some rounded pops, although no visible bubbling. Seems like the 3 weeks test still not sufficient to test a material. I will most likely be testing other materials in prep. for another bigger project one year from now. Like to thank you for your guidance, might need even more advice in the near future.  Yes, cement is the next.
> ==================================================


You indeed most welcome. My effort experience is always open to anyone in this AQ. :Smile:

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## davwong

Hi Eddy

Here is a website show a large which I like to share with or maybe you had seen it before.
http://www.wildsky.sakura.ne.jp/viva...hoco090226.htm

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## eddy planer

> Hi Eddy
> 
> Here is a website show a large which I like to share with or maybe you had seen it before.
> http://www.wildsky.sakura.ne.jp/viva...hoco090226.htm



Hi Davwong,

Thanks for the link, this is indeed a great palu. I 've seen it before but my tank isnt as big as that super monster.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughtfulness to us all for show us this link. :Well done:

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## eddy planer

Hi folks,

Yipee! i just received 7 nozzles hose from ebay this morning!

Will upload more picture tonight...

Hmmm, i had already racked up my braincells to create a full blow misting system to ensure this system really mist every corner of my palu and will never miss a spot. Every flora even my mosses will be beautifully mist on. 

I'm going to try my old sump pump of 3200l/h to pump at least 9-10 nozzles from my sump. It's going to be hell out lots of DIY, test and trial and I dont really know if this 3200l/h pump is going to work or create enough pressure to get this 10 nozzles mist beautifully. If not, I'll have to order a 3hp booster pump from ebay for another USD108 or source one locally. I know I can get this booster pump of 50psi to 120psi locally for SGD320 but this booster pump is so bulky which is as big as 5kg rice bag whereas the US made booster pump is big as a 1.8l bottle of coke.

Tomorrow, please wish me luck, crossed fingers and pray that my old 3200l/h pump will work on 10 nozzles mister when I complete the DIY them pump to connect the 10 nozzles.

will update you folks,for more reports and pictures of this test and trial of 3200l/h pump really work...

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## davwong

Hi eddy

You can try this misting system.

http://www.vivaria.nl/vivaria/?get=i...atecontrol.xsl

Misting in action
http://www.vivaria.nl/movies/movie-1.html

I am using it for my staghorn ferns and other plants.

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## eddy planer

> Hi eddy
> 
> You can try this misting system.
> 
> http://www.vivaria.nl/vivaria/?get=i...atecontrol.xsl
> 
> Misting in action
> http://www.vivaria.nl/movies/movie-1.html
> 
> I am using it for my staghorn ferns and other plants.


Hi Dave

Thank you so much for this wonderful link,

Mind ask you, so you use booster pump to mist your flora?

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## limz_777

> Hi folks,
> 
> Yipee! i just received 7 nozzles hose from ebay this morning!
> 
> Will upload more picture tonight...
> 
> Hmmm, i had already racked up my braincells to create a full blow misting system to ensure this system really mist every corner of my palu and will never miss a spot. Every flora even my mosses will be beautifully mist on. 
> 
> I'm going to try my old sump pump of 3200l/h to pump at least 9-10 nozzles from my sump. It's going to be hell out lots of DIY, test and trial and I dont really know if this 3200l/h pump is going to work or create enough pressure to get this 10 nozzles mist beautifully. If not, I'll have to order a 3hp booster pump from ebay for another USD108 or source one locally. I know I can get this booster pump of 50psi to 120psi locally for SGD320 but this booster pump is so bulky which is as big as 5kg rice bag whereas the US made booster pump is big as a 1.8l bottle of coke.
> ...



any updates ?

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## felix_fx2

eddy. how's the new mist nozzles working out?

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## Blue Whale

Eddy,

I post 2 vidz in http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=64982
Look at the 1st vidz very very last, the tank where Amano stand beside  :Grin:

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## dkk08

Hey Eddy, any updates? Haven't heard from you for awhile, how's the misting system?

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## Blue Whale

>"< Hmm...Eddy regarding the question you ask yesterday. I looked around and saw this picture from amanotakashi.net

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## eddy planer

> >"< Hmm...Eddy regarding the question you ask yesterday. I looked around and saw this picture from amanotakashi.net



That's very beautiful.... :Shocked: 

I dont mind the create waterfall viva like this if I have another 4-5 ft tall tank plus another approval from my wife. Now she's approved 5-6ft tall palu not viva. :Wink:  Unless if you like me to create one for you at home? :Roll Eyes:

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## Blue Whale

^^" no monies...btw, I started to tear down everything which was pre-planned before the workshop. Not necessary must built Iwagumi. Will be doing a casual one.

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## eddy planer

Hi Folks,

I'm already in dilemma and my camera is happened left at my office in Colombo, :Crying:  and i unable to shoot my palu and also cannot upload my 90% mature palu .

May I ask any kind brother is willing to come with his good camera and help me to take some nice pic of my palu to upload for our palu/viva enthusiasts to view? :Embarassed:  

anybody, please? :Smile:

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## reborn4ever

hi bro.. any upgrade of yr vivarium??  :Grin:

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## eddy planer

Hi Folks,

Remember that I told you guys that I''m trying out using 6000l/hr pump to pump 10 misting nozzles and it's turn out not really good. The pressure for this 6000l/hr pump isnt strong enough to create at pressure of 5psi or more to pump 10 mist nozzles.

The option to buy USD180, Mistking booster pump from either US or Green Chapter for my 10 mist nozzles .

But meanwhile, i still use direct tap water to pump 10 mist nozzles and turn out not too bad.

Show you how I DIY the misting system pictures

Adjusted the misting nozzles to specific location 

[IMG][/IMG]

Using white electrical wires holder, drilled 1cm diameter for misting nozzles

[IMG][/IMG]


Weather resistance double sided tape for mounting the white holder

[IMG][/IMG]

Completed installation the misting system inside the tank

[IMG][/IMG]

Here she blow!!!

[IMG][/IMG]

The frontal view ...rain, rain rain go away?

[IMG][/IMG]


Here some sexy video taking of misting system for your pleasure.. :Razz: 

[IMG][/IMG]

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## eddy planer

Hi Folks

Finally i got my camera back after long haul form Colombo.. :Embarassed: 

Here some updated picture of my palu 

frontal view

[IMG][/IMG]

Another one

[IMG][/IMG]



[IMG][/IMG]



Another update video taking. enjoy folks!

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## reborn4ever

WOW... Nice setup... Thank for sharing...  :Smile:

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## dkk08

looking really really good Eddy! I think we should really hold the Vivarium workshop at your place  :Grin:

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## eddy planer

Thanks reboren4ever and Desmond for so encouraging.

Desmond, viva/paludarium workshop at my home? Can why not, let me know, I'll made the arrangement, ok? :Roll Eyes:  we will carry out Wild Ginger's legacy, but let me complete my 2nd project first in sometime late May or early June.

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## cdckjn

whoa! This is greater than at the first. The plants have really grown in and I cannot wait until the 17th Apr for you to invite me to your house to view your wonderful palu! We will have a great time to chitchat over your palu!

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## limz_777

update looking real good , looks like a jungle

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## reveru

wow very inspiring pictures. hope to start my own palu in the future. when's the workshop? *peers at eddy*  :Grin:

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## edwardchuajh

wahhh tempting.. interestingly the gf has shown interest in palus also hehehe

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## Pipewort

Wow! Really nice. Have you got any Tree frogs in there atm?

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## cdckjn

eddy_planer, are we having a get-together. maybe you want to PM those interested with a message as I am very very busy at my workplace as we have a all-day long function this Sat. The get-together will be next Sat 17 Apr at about 6pm right?




> wow very inspiring pictures. hope to start my own palu in the future. when's the workshop? *peers at eddy*

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## cdckjn

I am looking forward this Sat for the get-together at your place to see your new Tree Frogs. Some more got lots of food! Yeah! Looking forward for a great time!

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## Sword

> Hi Bros,
> 
> Anyone keep 6ft vivarium tank or seen any 6ft vivarium tank in Singapore?
> 
> Care to share with me? I still wavering, should I setup a vivarium project for this 6x2.5x2.5 tank .
> 
> let me know your thoughts.


Brother Eddy, still remember me!!! I see that you really got the urge to setup 6ft vivarium. But you worry of things get foul up. For me, if i want to do it, just do it. Failure is a road to sucess... :Roll Eyes:  Unless you've give up the thoughts....just my opinion, thanks. Wish to see your project go on,... :Angel:

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## BFG

> wahhh tempting.. interestingly the gf has shown interest in palus also hehehe


Strike while the iron is hot!!!  :Grin:

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## eddy planer

> Brother Eddy, still remember me!!! I see that you really got the urge to setup 6ft vivarium. But you worry of things get foul up. For me, if i want to do it, just do it. Failure is a road to sucess... Unless you've give up the thoughts....just my opinion, thanks. Wish to see your project go on,...


Thanks Sword

You will see my next 3ft x4ft high tank project is on the way...will be complete this week!

thanks for encouraging me !

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## eddy planer

> Wow! Really nice. Have you got any Tree frogs in there atm?



Yeah I just got them 2 White Tree Frogs...but alas, they all hiding somewhere in the wood. every night they always greet me whenever I back home after I mist the tank by croaking that say Hello Eddy!

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## eddy planer

> wahhh tempting.. interestingly the gf has shown interest in palus also hehehe


Wait till i got my new customized 3ftx4ft tank , I'll show you guys, no problem!

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## eddy planer

> wow very inspiring pictures. hope to start my own palu in the future. when's the workshop? *peers at eddy*


Just wait for me and let me complete DIY 3ft width x 4ft high tank then i will able to have you guys come over to see how...workshop? not really but just brief and do Q and A .

Thanks for encouraging me!

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## [email protected]

awesome set-up eddy!

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## Lycosa

nice setup you have here!

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## MiminoloGy

Very nice! It's looking wild and natural keep up the awesome job.

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## vivaboy76

what are the frogs and fishes can get along with green tree frog??

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## eddy planer

Hi viva boy

Wow its a long time, i been MIA for couple of months due to my aeroplane.

Ok , i used to keep 4 front clawed frogs and 3 fire belly newts for couple of months and they look ok with staying together. I know my firebelly newts are always hidden some where among the wood and flora, just spotted them recently.

My 3 white tree frogs and 4 greem tree frogs are very poor swimmers and attack or eat those underwater critters are almost impossible. hence they been hunting for more crickets daily.

hope this will help you

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## ranmasatome

the last picture was in april la eddy.... :Smile:

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## dkk08

updates updates!

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## vivaboy76

hi thanks alot for your advice, currently in my vivarium (30cm by 30cm by 45cm) i have a pair of small common frog, a small vampire crab.

Planning to get a pair of green tree frog. your advise pls??

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## eddy planer

Hi viva boy

Care to show me your vivarium and small common frog ( bull frog???)? 

If you get another pair of green tree frogs,my advice get 2 young green tree frog which are smaller and thinner to live nicely with other or else if the bigger and fatter green tree frog will wallop any living thing smaller than its size along its path

I have seen a 2 year old green tree frog swallowed pinkies( baby mouse) and will eat at least 3 of them!!!!

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## vivaboy76

i have heard that frog consume anything that fits in its mouth. well the commonfrog is the one used to feed arrowana. so are those small bull frog?? i hope not. once my tank fully complete i will put up the pictures.

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## vivaboy76

anyway i am trying to mimic the rain forest not only by sight but also the water condition and tank environment. i intend to research on eco system, meaning creating one truely rainforest in my living room. i believe by our grandkids time, the only rainforest we can see, are those manmade ones. so at least we should try to create the best man made ones for our critters.

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## Fei Miao

> i have heard that frog consume anything that fits in its mouth. well the commonfrog is the one used to feed arrowana. so are those small bull frog?? i hope not. once my tank fully complete i will put up the pictures.


These common frogs will grow to be bull frogs for your frog legs porridge!  :Smile:

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## vivaboy76

oh my really these are bull frog??, then cant keep with green tree frog ,thats too bad

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## eddy planer

Hi Folks,

Maybe this December or after Chinese New Year, I'm going to tear this boring paludarium down and recreate a better and less hideout place for my White Tree Frogs and possible throw in a few twin-spotted Flying Frog. For your understanding, my relative who live in a bungalow at Fraser's Hill, Malaysia. I witnessed this flying frogs were abundant found at his well lit balcony at night. It is possible it was attracted to there to feed on moths and other insects if I'm not wrong. But I'm still in confuse state whether to bring in to Singapore but i find this frog really beautiful but still smaller size than my colony of White Tree Frogs.

Nevertheless, I'm still waiting and waiting for more opportunity if I bring those flying frogs in and meanwhile I will be gather more construction materials , natural materials for my future DIY backgrounds. 

folks, care to share what do I need to rescape or create a better paludarium or anything.

Just let me know your thoughts

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## 69efan69

> Hi Folks,
> 
> Maybe this December or after Chinese New Year, I'm going to tear this boring paludarium down and recreate a better and less hideout place for my White Tree Frogs and possible throw in a few twin-spotted Flying Frog. For your understanding, my relative who live in a bungalow at Fraser's Hill, Malaysia. I witnessed this flying frogs were abundant found at his well lit balcony at night. It is possible it was attracted to there to feed on moths and other insects if I'm not wrong. But I'm still in confuse state whether to bring in to Singapore but i find this frog really beautiful but still smaller size than my colony of White Tree Frogs.
> 
> Nevertheless, I'm still waiting and waiting for more opportunity if I bring those flying frogs in and meanwhile I will be gather more construction materials , natural materials for my future DIY backgrounds. 
> 
> folks, care to share what do I need to rescape or create a better paludarium or anything.
> 
> Just let me know your thoughts


WAH i thought your palu is already awesome.

how are your frogs doing?

they'll usually go into hiding if the lights are too bright haha

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## vivaboy76

flying frogs hmmmmmm very interesting

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## dkk08

most probably a Rhacophorus reinwardtii commonly found in M'sia, Indonesia and some other parts of asia except Singapore

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## vivaboy76

hi there,


Red eye tree frog.......are they easy to keep?? whats their survival rate?

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## eddy planer

> hi there,
> 
> 
> Red eye tree frog.......are they easy to keep?? whats their survival rate?


Red Eye Tree frog is actually illegal to keep in Singapore, but i really love to have them in my paludarium. 

Try not to talk about keeping this beautiful frogs as pet here or otherwise AVA will step in front of our members' house doorstep for no reason.

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## vivaboy76

hey dont worry , i aware of the level of strictness in our country on illegal pet trade than other evil stuff in society........all right i shall not go into politics here...thats more risky than anything else in this world.

i am doing a project for my own training materials..... so just need some expert views here on red eye tree frog...our zoo might be getting a few for the upcoming river safari.i hope so......

No worries man...nothing illegal here....u have my words....

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## eddy planer

> hey dont worry , i aware of the level of strictness in our country on illegal pet trade than other evil stuff in society........all right i shall not go into politics here...thats more risky than anything else in this world.
> 
> i am doing a project for my own training materials..... so just need some expert views here on red eye tree frog...our zoo might be getting a few for the upcoming river safari.i hope so......
> 
> No worries man...nothing illegal here....u have my words....


We can talk about how beautiful Red Eye Frog and its habitats, that's one no problem with that. I must admitted I were used to tempered to purchase a few dream Red Eye Frogs illegally in the past but i found out that Red Eye Frogs aren't easy to keep due to its delicate and intolerance lifestyle.

Next time, If i get back to the exotic pet shop, and I'll try to take more pictures of all the varieties of all kind of exotic pets for you guys to drool!

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## vivaboy76

lets hope our zoo does a breeding program for this guys.......they are very fragile....

but i dont think that difficult to keep... how do u rate white tree frogs?? easy to keep??

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## eddy planer

> lets hope our zoo does a breeding program for this guys.......they are very fragile....
> 
> but i dont think that difficult to keep... how do u rate white tree frogs?? easy to keep??


White Tree Frog is a beginner 's easy pet will live up to 15 years ! Same lifespan with dogs and cats!

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## vivaboy76

well i thinking of keeping the white tree frog(provided i get) in my current viva.

for my inter species experiment i better not try this guys....too risky.....

is the austrilian green tree frog the small version legal in singapore??

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## eddy planer

Australian Green Tree Frog can grow as large of white tree frog of course its still legal!

----------


## vivaboy76

quite confused though....aussie green tree frog much smaller than white tree if i am not mistaken........'

i might be wrong...

so your *** ever breed?

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## Blue Whale

How about the one shown below?
Wallace's Flying Frog
Tea-cup size. -_-" Eddy got such strong hands...I wonder wonder wonder...BTW, its call Wallaces Frog in other sites. Leap 50 feets (wow wow).

Here is the Indonesian Flying Frog but I can't make it out from the photo; look like gecko to me. However, the ad. there shows more froggy babies there which I don't think I can appreciate, maybe you guys can make it out.

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## dkk08

some updates for Eddy's tank

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## eddy planer

Hi folks,

Finally, I'm soon going to decommission the current setup and will tear down totally sometime in May. I realised that my whole 6ft paludarium has infected full of termites, and this isn't very healthy for my wooden living hall furniture.
For the time being, I have to start Google for right materials (waterproof and termites- free sealant, now looking at Drylock products), CAD/CAM the new built design,new plumbing system, 30kg of rocks, big driftwoods, a dozen of foam spray, air-brush equipment, a dozen tubes of neutral black sealant, four sheets(4mx2m) of 20mm thick with high density foam, plenty of mosses (dry/live) and many more...Don't worry, I will update you all the materials, CAD/CAM and everything for the built.
Meanwhile, I am unable decommission the termites' infested 6ft paludarium at the moment due to my excessive aeroplane trips for this month.
Anyway, this going to be the real Blast for me and you all, too!

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## aquarius

Alot of us here will be looking forward to your new setup! By the way hOw did the termites get into your tank??

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## Merviso

TERMITES! This is horrible! Eddie, please do take some photos and show us!  :Surprised:

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## kennethc

As requested by the palu guru, posted on his behalf. there are many more pictures i took but couldnt upload because of large sizes.. so sorry  :Embarassed:

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## Brucegan2

Wow...swee lA

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## mUAr_cHEe

This is a very exciting thread to follow.

Build.
Tear Down.
Build.
Tear Down.
Build.
Tear Down.


If Eddy is able to create a time lapse video over the years compacted into 5 minutes, the tank will look like a Chinese Bride during her Wedding Banquet: changing outfits.


Eddy, Kudos to your perseverance. Now you make me itchy too.

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## eddy planer

Appreciate that, kennethc,

This paludarium is only 2 months old.
I just started to rebuild(since September) after tearing down the previous build which was greatly affected by pesky termites. The whole build took me 4 long months - planning, materials,flora and complicated plumbing system with new 8000l/h pump to power enough water from sump filtering system to Laguna canister and to waterfalls.

The whole build took me only 3 days after I hired 2 bangla guys from town council to clear all the tank previous mess. Of course, before the build start, I also have to do glass polishing to rid of cloudy and stubborn stains with glass polishing paste and electrical polisher drill.

I will soon upload my build as soon I complete my oversea projects within 2-3 months time.

Please bear with me.

Mod/Admin can i have a courtesy to replace my "6ft vivarium" thread to 6ft paludarium journal- pictures!

----------


## AQMS

How did you get termites in your tank??

----------


## eddy planer

> How did you get termites in your tank??


See my first few pages of my thread. I were using 5 ft timber rod from one of the nursery. Maybe I didn't boil them long enough to kill termites eggs or larvae within or maybe the smell of wood was strong enough to lead termites from nearby park went up to 4 floor up to my balcony and infested the woods slowly and the population increased and swallow all the wood till hollow. 
Now all my woods were brushed with anti termites varnish before I start my build. 
Hope this helps you.

----------


## Zenith82

Well done Eddy! Finally I get to see the completed tank setup. It's beautiful, have you thought of a name for it yet?

----------


## eddy planer

> This is a very exciting thread to follow.
> 
> Build.
> Tear Down.
> Build.
> Tear Down.
> Build.
> Tear Down.
> 
> ...


Thank you for kind comments, appreciate that. "mUAr_cHEe" 

If you can help me to video editing for me , that's will made me eternally grateful for your effort at the same time, you will be my guru for this...I'm still noob. :Embarassed:

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## eddy planer

> Well done Eddy! Finally I get to see the completed tank setup. It's beautiful, have you thought of a name for it yet?


Thank so much for so encouraging, you are the one who point here and there to made it better. In fact I'm learning from you to improve my build better. Many thanks to you, bro!

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## mUAr_cHEe

> If you can help me to video editing for me , that's will made me eternally grateful for your effort at the same time, you will be my guru for this...I'm still noob.


It was just an analogy but I do not mind doing this for you. It's another hobby of mine. That along with photography, Playing Chinese Chess, running, reading and ... Ok. I should stop there.

So its a date?

----------

