# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Where to get lily pipe. Please inform.

## Filet-O-Fish

Hi guys  :Smile: 
I'm looking for Lily pipes like the photo below for hose size 16/22mm. Also can the members inform where to see the most different types of Lily pipes in one LFS. 
I don't want ADA brand. For that I need to rob a bank. :-)


ImageUploadedByTapatalk1425618932.886393.jpg


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## kermit13sg

Seaview at Seletar, East Ocean at Havelock, SunPets at Seletar... Lots to pick and choose. No need to rob bank, just borrow from Ah Long, hahaha

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## Urban Aquaria

Thats a really wierd lily pipe outflow mount design in your posted photo... like the glass maker created it upside down.  :Grin: 

Anyways, you can find a range of different glass lily pipe designs and sizes at places like East Ocean, Seaview, Green Chapter and Aquatic Avenue.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Thats a really wierd lily pipe outflow mount design in your posted photo... like the glass maker created it upside down. 
> 
> Anyways, you can find a range of different glass lily pipe designs and sizes at places like East Ocean, Seaview, Green Chapter and Aquatic Avenue.


Yes its a funny looking thing. Anyway I tried all the shops just now. Nobody is carrying it. FnM carried sometime back...........cost $122+ !!!!!!! :Shocked: 

It turn out that it's made by a company in UK only. Visited their website, selling the same for 1/2 the price of Singapore price BUT they don't ship outside UK. :Mad: 

This design of lily pipe is stated to be good when used with an inline Co2 diffuser. It pushes the water towards the substrate level and keeps the Co2 bubbles inside water for a longer time (results in more dwell time for Co2 to dissolve). It also aids better circulation in water column.

BTW have you used glass lily pipes in your setups. How do you handle them when cleaning? Now I'm reading about glass lily pipes and the more read, the more I'm scared that I'll break them (resulting in $$$$$$ out the window)  :Laughing: 
Cheers

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## Urban Aquaria

> Yes its a funny looking thing. Anyway I tried all the shops just now. Nobody is carrying it. FnM carried sometime back...........cost $122+ !!!!!!!
> 
> It turn out that it's made by a company in UK only. Visited their website, selling the same for 1/2 the price of Singapore price BUT they don't ship outside UK.
> 
> This design of lily pipe is stated to be good when used with an inline Co2 diffuser. It pushes the water towards the substrate level and keeps the Co2 bubbles inside water for a longer time (results in more dwell time for Co2 to dissolve). It also aids better circulation in water column.


Actually, the "correct" lily pipe mouth design will already push water towards the substrate level due to the downward force of the surface vortex it creates and the angled shape of the lily pipe... in a properly designed lily pipe, the Co2 will be pushed down by the vortex action and flow, and circulated around the tank efficiently. 

If the Co2 is being shot upwards to the water surface, it means the lily pipe is positioned wrongly or made at a wrong angle or the Co2 bubbles are so large that they float upwards instead of being suspended in the water, that is not supposed to happen. Water flowing out of a properly designed lily pipe follows the bottom rim of the mouth and spreads out in a horizontal path across the tank below the water surface, then creates a circular flow pattern which carries water, nutrients and Co2 around the tank.

There are already no-brand china made lily pipes in the market which were made in wierd angles and those are terrible in operation (ie. no vortex and the water doesn't utilize the wide mouth to spread out the flow, water just shoots out downwards in a narrow path).

That wierd upside-down lily pipe design looks like it was also made wrongly by a manufacturer (probably a china factory that made an early batch of wrong ones and trying to clear stock), as a lily pipe user myself, i can't see how they rationalize that it is better for Co2 and circulation. I guess there is a reason only one company is selling it, and no one else is.  :Grin: 





> BTW have you used glass lily pipes in your setups. How do you handle them when cleaning? Now I'm reading about glass lily pipes and the more read, the more I'm scared that I'll break them (resulting in $$$$$$ out the window) 
> Cheers


Yes, i have used glass lily pipes in my setups (and still do)... at one point in time i had 6 tanks running with glass lily pipes, and i clean all of them every 2 months (nowadays not so hardworking though ). Naturally after enough practice (and some broken pipes initially), i eventually gained enough experience in handling them properly with zero breakages. Its just a matter of having enough space to work with and being careful not to anyhow knock or bend the pipes.

Buying good quality glass lily pipes is also important, the good quality ones are usually made with thicker glass which have consistent wall thickness throughout the whole pipe, those are much more durable and wouldn't break as easily (can withstand light knocks or bends)... while the low quality cheap ones are usually made with thinner glass and some parts are so thin that they are very easily broken with just a slight knock or bend, even someone who is experienced at cleaning lily pipes will still break those.

I've personally tried to save money and buy cheap lily pipes before too (especially during the initial period when i just started using them) and it resulted in frequent breakages and then rushing like mad to LFS to buy replacements, ended up it cost me more to keep buying replacement sets. On hindsight, i should have just bought good quality ones from the start instead. 

Anyways, if you are worried about handling glass lily pipes (it is indeed a valid concern, especially if you are not handy with delicate items), there is an alternative in the form of acrylic lily pipes, i did a review on them a while back:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...-Lily-Pipe-Set

I have gradually switched my tanks over to acrylic lily pipes and they have worked well so far, easier to clean (i can just chuck all of them into a bucket and hard scrub clean them without worries) and they still look good after almost a year of usage.

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## Filet-O-Fish

Hi
firstly let me thank you for your reply. It was so complete. 
BTW the lily pipe I mentioned is actually hand made in UK itself. It's kinda considered a branded name in UK & USA. At least that what I read in the forum. 
The brand is called: CalAqua.
*Cal Aqua 17mm Efflux F3 Outflow*Here's the link to the post. Be warned it's lengthy.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/l...y-pipes.24338/

Cheers.

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## Urban Aquaria

I see... okay, after reading the description on their retail website, i have a better understanding of its design direction, looks like its made for those who want to direct water down towards specific areas of the substrate (can also see that the pipe outlet itself is angled downwards in the photo). I guess there would be a use for this effect in certain setups.  :Very Happy: 

Haven't seen this particular type of design available in other websites or stores though, so i guess you probably just have to buy it from the UK site (maybe use those overseas parcel forwarding services like vPost to order them in).

An alternative idea is to perhaps get a normal design lily pipe, then maybe mount it in such a way that its pipe outlet is also angled slightly downwards, it should create a similar effect.

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## Bieffe

Soak ur 12/16 hose in hot water before slipping the glass pipes on will reduce chance of breaking. When removing got to be very careful if you jerk it off.....ahhahah haha. ...for sure it will break.

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## skytan

Yah, broke my inflow ANS during one of the washing.

Maybe need to get a acrylic set to standby.

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## Maru

Got one acrylic set from GC. Comes with surface skimmer too. It got 12/16 and 16/22 adaptors, as well as cleaning kit for it. So far so good for me  :Smile:  Think its around $55 if i remember correctly.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> I see... okay, after reading the description on their retail website, i have a better understanding of its design direction, looks like its made for those who want to direct water down towards specific areas of the substrate (can also see that the pipe outlet itself is angled downwards in the photo). I guess there would be a use for this effect in certain setups. 
> 
> Haven't seen this particular type of design available in other websites or stores though, so i guess you probably just have to buy it from the UK site (maybe use those overseas parcel forwarding services like vPost to order them in).
> 
> An alternative idea is to perhaps get a normal design lily pipe, then maybe mount it in such a way that its pipe outlet is also angled slightly downwards, it should create a similar effect.


Hi, :-)
I was out of Singapore and so this late reply.
I managed to get this handmade lilypie (2 pieces of outflow only) from UK through a cousin of mine staying there. It'll be in the Lion City by mid March :Jump for joy: . 
Can't wait to try it out. The price is 1/2 of those in LFS here.
As for the inflow, for the time being I'll use the Eheim green pipes and after the tank and plants have settled down, I intend to switch over to glass pipes as well.

As I'm planning to have the outflow lily pipes, one pipe on the front left side and the other on the back right side of the tank, I need some advice from you:

1. Will the flow be slowed done by switching to a glass* inflow*. I see the slits on the pipes are few and narrow when compared with the plastic Eheim pipes. (Any good brand for inflow pipes, you can recommend)
2. Should the outflow and inflow pipes be placed together OR on the same side but away from each other.
3. Would it be better to have acrylic inflow pipes rather than glass as the pipes will get dirty fast and be an eye sore in the tank. Cleaning the inflow pipes can be more tricky than an outflow, right?

Cheers.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Soak ur 12/16 hose in hot water before slipping the glass pipes on will reduce chance of breaking. When removing got to be very careful if you jerk it off.....ahhahah haha. ...for sure it will break.


Hi
Yes, thats what I intend to do. I've read many sad stories on the net where glass pipes get broken when fixing and cleaning. ::smt010:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Got one acrylic set from GC. Comes with surface skimmer too. It got 12/16 and 16/22 adaptors, as well as cleaning kit for it. So far so good for me  Think its around $55 if i remember correctly.


Hi,
Wow! thanks for the tip off. :Smile:  
GC, here I come......... :Cool:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Yah, broke my inflow ANS during one of the washing.
> 
> Maybe need to get a acrylic set to standby.


Yup, that's why I intend to keep my old Eheim grey spray bar just in case. (touch wood)

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## Urban Aquaria

> Got one acrylic set from GC. Comes with surface skimmer too. It got 12/16 and 16/22 adaptors, as well as cleaning kit for it. So far so good for me  Think its around $55 if i remember correctly.


I've used that version before too, got mine from Taobao though. 

Its indeed quite a comprehensive package with lots of accessories, but the issues i found with it was those particular acrylic pipes were made from 2 molded sides glued together (instead of one seamless acrylic pipe), so there is a visible join seam running down the middle of the pipes. One of the sets i used somehow separated at the seams after cleaning and started to spring a slow leak, so i had to glue them back together. In addition, the size of the lily pipe outflow is large and looks way oversized on a 2ft tank (though it looks okay on 3ft tanks or larger). Otherwise, it does work well.

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## Urban Aquaria

> As I'm planning to have the outflow lily pipes, one pipe on the front left side and the other on the back right side of the tank, I need some advice from you:
> 
> 1. Will the flow be slowed done by switching to a glass* inflow*. I see the slits on the pipes are few and narrow when compared with the plastic Eheim pipes. (Any good brand for inflow pipes, you can recommend)
> 2. Should the outflow and inflow pipes be placed together OR on the same side but away from each other.
> 3. Would it be better to have acrylic inflow pipes rather than glass as the pipes will get dirty fast and be an eye sore in the tank. Cleaning the inflow pipes can be more tricky than an outflow, right?
> 
> Cheers.


1. The good quality glass intake pipes shouldn't be restricting inflow, unless the intake slits are really narrow and few... usually they have sufficient gap size to maintain the required amount of inflow. I guess you just have to check and see. The glass intakes i've used so far which have worked well without issues are the gUSH and VIV brand glass intake pipes.

2. For most setups, the lily pipe and intake pipe should ideally be placed close together centrally on the same side, this is to generate an optimal circular flow pattern in the tank. Here is a diagram for reference from ukaps.com:



Photo source: http://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=...h-planted-tank

3. Both acrylic and glass pipes will still get dirty at the same speed, the main difference is that acrylic is easier to clean without requiring as much extra care in terms of handling (it can withstand knocks and drops), but acrylic does tend to slowly lose some clarity over time as its is brushed and cleaned (fine scratches/scuff marks slowly develop on its surface)... on the other hand, glass lily pipes maintain their clarity throughout even after repeated brushing and cleaning, but they require more care when cleaning and handling.

Glass pipes also come in many different designs for different flow pattern requirements (ie. lily, jet, poppy, violet, spin etc), so there are more choices... whereas acrylic pipes currently only come in the standard lily design.

Inflow pipes do need abit more work to clean compared to outflow pipes, but its still relatively easy with a good flexible pipe brush, its just a matter of scrubbing the pipe walls and slits properly to clean off the algae and dirt.

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## Maru

> I've used that version before too, got mine from Taobao though. 
> 
> Its indeed quite a comprehensive package with lots of accessories, but the issues i found with it was those particular acrylic pipes were made from 2 molded sides glued together (instead of one seamless acrylic pipe), so there is a visible join seam running down the middle of the pipes. One of the sets i used somehow separated at the seams after cleaning and started to spring a slow leak, so i had to glue them back together. In addition, the size of the lily pipe outflow is large and looks way oversized on a 2ft tank (though it looks okay on 3ft tanks or larger). Otherwise, it does work well.


Oh dear, didnt notice the seams. I set the outflow to half via the double tap else the gush will send the shrimps flying LOL. Didnt know the rate of the inflow though, but i got 3 missing shrimps hahahahahaha. No bodies found  :Sad: .

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## Filet-O-Fish

> I've used that version before too, got mine from Taobao though. 
> 
> Its indeed quite a comprehensive package with lots of accessories, but the issues i found with it was those particular acrylic pipes were made from 2 molded sides glued together (instead of one seamless acrylic pipe), so there is a visible join seam running down the middle of the pipes. One of the sets i used somehow separated at the seams after cleaning and started to spring a slow leak, so i had to glue them back together. In addition, the size of the lily pipe outflow is large and looks way oversized on a 2ft tank (though it looks okay on 3ft tanks or larger). Otherwise, it does work well.


Thanks for tip off. I'll keep this in mind.
Can you spare a few moments and clear my doubt on the placement of the pipes.

I saw these BorneoWild pipes. Are they better? I see the slots are more and spread higher.
Thanks :-)

BW intake.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> Oh dear, didnt notice the seams. I set the outflow to half via the double tap else the gush will send the shrimps flying LOL. Didnt know the rate of the inflow though, but i got 3 missing shrimps hahahahahaha. No bodies found .


Yeah, if the intake slits are wide enough... juvenile and sometimes even adult shrimps will occasionally get sucked into the canister filter. Not a big issue though, they will usually live and grow in there until you retrieve them during the next filter maintenance anyways.  :Very Happy:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Inflow pipes do need abit more work to clean compared to outflow pipes, but its still relatively easy with a good flexible pipe brush, its just a matter of scrubbing the pipe walls and slits properly to clean off the algae and dirt.


Hi thanks for the quick reply. :Well done: 
As far as I can understand, the outflow need not be removed at all during cleaning. I can just use a flexible pipe brush and clean through the mouth opening of the outflow pipe. This method obviously won't work with an inlet pipe. 
The only option is to disconnect the hose from the pipe and this is what I'm afraid off. Those glass things can get quite slippery especially after being in the tank for some time. 
I have broken my share of gUSH DCs. They just seem to have a live of their own. :Laughing: 

This looks interesting to me also. I can hook the inflow glass pipe to a clear plastic / acrylic shepherd's hook pipe for safer cleaning but so far I have not seen such clear pipes in any LFS. :Confused: 
BW intake -02.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> Thanks for tip off. I'll keep this in mind.
> Can you spare a few moments and clear my doubt on the placement of the pipes.
> 
> I saw these BorneoWild pipes. Are they better? I see the slots are more and spread higher.
> Thanks :-)
> 
> Attachment 47471


I haven't personally used that brand before, but it looks nice... from what i've seen in stores, BorneoWild products are usually good quality stuff. I guess the extra intake slots will help cover more sections of the water levels.

There are also other intake designs which seem interesting too, like the VIV violet inflow pipe:





Photo sources: http://www.aqua-paradise.net/

Not sure if it fits your tastes though... i guess you'll just have to shop around and see which designs you prefer.  :Smile:

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## Maru

> Yeah, if the intake slits are wide enough... juvenile and sometimes even adult shrimps will occasionally get sucked into the canister filter. Not a big issue though, they will usually live and grow in there until you retrieve them during the next filter maintenance anyways.


Huh??? the shrimp can live in the canister filter??? LOL. 

I admit those glass one look very nice, but i always got this phobia of breaking it while installing/dismantling...... esp when my psychomotor agility seems to getting on with age....LOL. 

Possible to not disconnect them with the hoses but just get a very long cleaning brush to clean them??

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Possible to not disconnect them with the hoses but just get a very long cleaning brush to clean them??


Yes that looks workable. I can also have a tap control valve just nearest to the glass pipe. Then it would be easier to take off the inflow with less struggle. Does this sound OK?
tap control.jpg

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## Filet-O-Fish

> There are also other intake designs which seem interesting too, like the VIV violet inflow pipe
> Not sure if it fits your tastes though... i guess you'll just have to shop around and see which designs you prefer.


The VIV pipes can function almost the same as the Eheim plastic inflow pipes judging from the bigger opening and longer slots. I'll try to locate this in LFS.
Cheers.

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## Maru

> Yes that looks workable. I can also have a tap control valve just nearest to the glass pipe. Then it would be easier to take off the inflow with less struggle. Does this sound OK?
> tap control.jpg


Sounds workable. I have a double tap in the mid of both hoses linked to the filter. I haven't used any glass pipes yet but just reading it off peoples' experience in forums enough to scare me off (when many of them are seasoned/veterans like UA hahahaha). And the price of the glass pipes gives me no allowance for "accidents" :P

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Sounds workable. I have a double tap in the mid of both hoses linked to the filter. I haven't used any glass pipes yet but just reading it off peoples' experience in forums enough to scare me off (when many of them are seasoned/veterans like UA hahahaha). And the price of the glass pipes gives me no allowance for "accidents" :P


AND I'll be using 2 inflow pipes....so double trouble. :Laughing:

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## skytan

So you guys usually put the control valve near the lily pipe? 
But so its pretty at the side of the tank .
I place mine inside the cabinet , speaking of which it is kind of troublesome

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## Urban Aquaria

Most people usually position the double taps closer to the canister filter, so that its hidden out of view inside the cabinet... looks much neater, rather than having the tap exposed in view outside.

Btw, when cleaning lily pipes, its better to just disconnect all the pipes, hoses and taps for cleaning, then you can do a proper scrub through with the flexible brush and clean everything properly... if you just leave them connected together while cleaning, the areas where they are joined at will tend to still be dirty.

Honestly, you all don't need to be so over-worried about breaking glass lily pipes, its not as difficult as what you read. Just allow yourself sufficient space and time to work on it and it'll be fine. Once you have done one or two cleaning sessions, you will quickly become proficient in disconnecting and cleaning them easily. It'll become very straight forward to do regularly.  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> Huh??? the shrimp can live in the canister filter??? LOL.


Yeah, shrimps can live happily in canister filters... actually i find that they seem to grow faster and healthier inside the filter. 

Nowadays i don't put any mesh/sponge guards on my intake pipes and just allow shrimplets to get drawn into the canister filter. They thrive in there with no predators, along with an abundance of food and detritus to graze on. Its like shrimp paradise for them.  :Very Happy: 

Every 2-3 months when i open the canister filters for regular maintenance and cleaning, i will usually retrieve dozens of juveniles and adult shrimps, all healthy with nice colors.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Yeah, shrimps can live happily in canister filters... actually i find that they seem to grow faster and healthier inside the filter. 
> 
> Nowadays i don't put any mesh/sponge guards on my intake pipes and just allow shrimplets to get drawn into the canister filter. They thrive in there with no predators, along with an abundance of food and detritus to graze on. Its like shrimp paradise for them. 
> 
> Every 2-3 months when i open the canister filters for regular maintenance and cleaning, i will usually retrieve dozens of juveniles and adult shrimps, all healthy with nice colors.


I wish I had know this a few moths before introducing Congo Tetras into my tank. Those guys have eaten all my baby Red Cherry shripms. I had more than 15 babies but now no more.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I wish I had know this a few moths before introducing Congo Tetras into my tank. Those guys have eaten all my baby Red Cherry shripms. I had more than 15 babies but now no more.


I stumbled upon this phenomenon when i removed a sponge guard from one of my tank intakes for convenience (it was clogging up with debris so often that i had to clear it almost everyday), then over the period of a year, i noticed each time i retrieved more and more shrimps from the canister filter to add back into the main community tank, the shrimp population in that tank was growing exponentially... while in my other tanks that still used sponge guards with fishes and shrimps living together, the shrimp population stayed stagnant or only grew very slowly. 

Then i started to realize its because many of the shrimplets were growing up safely inside the canister filter, while in my other tanks most of the shrimplets there were getting eaten up by fishes.  :Very Happy:

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## Maru

I positioned the tap further (sorta) to my inflow pipe so that when i do maintenance, there will be water in the hose that will flow into the filter when i switch it on (so no need to suck the other end again). But the outflow its very near the lily pipe (bascially i got only like less than 10cm to the connection end of the pipe). Guess i will do with it until i intend to upgrade to a 3ft cabinet glass tank then get those ADA/etc ones :P

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## Filet-O-Fish

> while in my other tanks most of the shrimplets there were getting eaten up by fishes.


Yes I remember those cute little guys hiding among the carpet plants in my tank. Now I have also removed the net covering the inflow pipes.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> I positioned the tap further (sorta) to my inflow pipe so that when i do maintenance, there will be water in the hose that will flow into the filter when i switch it on (so no need to suck the other end again). But the outflow its very near the lily pipe (bascially i got only like less than 10cm to the connection end of the pipe). Guess i will do with it until i intend to upgrade to a 3ft cabinet glass tank then get those ADA/etc ones :P


What's your present tank's size?

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## mercur1al

> 1. The good quality glass intake pipes shouldn't be restricting inflow, unless the intake slits are really narrow and few... usually they have sufficient gap size to maintain the required amount of inflow. I guess you just have to check and see. The glass intakes i've used so far which have worked well without issues are the gUSH and VIV brand glass intake pipes.
> 
> 2. For most setups, the lily pipe and intake pipe should ideally be placed close together centrally on the same side, this is to generate an optimal circular flow pattern in the tank. Here is a diagram for reference from ukaps.com:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo source: http://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=...h-planted-tank
> 
> 3. Both acrylic and glass pipes will still get dirty at the same speed, the main difference is that acrylic is easier to clean without requiring as much extra care in terms of handling (it can withstand knocks and drops), but acrylic does tend to slowly lose some clarity over time as its is brushed and cleaned (fine scratches/scuff marks slowly develop on its surface)... on the other hand, glass lily pipes maintain their clarity throughout even after repeated brushing and cleaning, but they require more care when cleaning and handling.
> ...



I actually have a slightly different way of placing my lily pipes. In principle it is similar to what UA posted, but what i did was separate the inlet and outlet in this manner, with my light set in the centre.



My own train of thought is that it reduces dead spots in the tank. Water flow goes in a similar pattern as the one UA posted, but in addition, it moves from front to back as well. The outlet will direct the water towards the far end of the tank, and the current by the drawing of the water from intake creates sort of a circular flow in the tank, from top to bottom, as well as front to back. This is quite evident when i feed the fishes using floating pellets. I feed at the front, and the pellets get drawn by the current towards the end.

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## Maru

> What's your present tank's size?


Just 2ft. first time doing planted tank though which alot of members here had been a great help esp UA.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> I actually have a slightly different way of placing my lily pipes. In principle it is similar to what UA posted, but what i did was separate the inlet and outlet in this manner, with my light set in the centre.
> My own train of thought is that it reduces dead spots in the tank. Water flow goes in a similar pattern as the one UA posted, but in addition, it moves from front to back as well. The outlet will direct the water towards the far end of the tank, and the current by the drawing of the water from intake creates sort of a circular flow in the tank, from top to bottom, as well as front to back. This is quite evident when i feed the fishes using floating pellets. I feed at the front, and the pellets get drawn by the current towards the end.


Hi mercur1al,
Thanks for your input. 
Your plan does seem to cover all parts of the tank. 
Since my tank is 4 feet, I'll be using 2 sets of lily pipes ( 2 separate canister filters). I'm planning to have a flow something similar to the diagram I drew below. What do you think?
planned_flow.jpg

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## mercur1al

> Hi mercur1al,
> Thanks for your input. 
> Your plan does seem to cover all parts of the tank. 
> Since my tank is 4 feet, I'll be using 2 sets of lily pipes ( 2 separate canister filters). I'm planning to have a flow something similar to the diagram I drew below. What do you think?
> planned_flow.jpg


I'm no expert but this is probably how I will place my lily pipes too if I had a 4 feet tank.

With a tank this length, good idea to place the pipes on separate ends to minimize the dead spots in the tank. Though I always test it out by using floating pellets or leaves after setting up a filter to test how effective my placement of the inlet and outlet is.


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## Filet-O-Fish

> I'm no expert but this is probably how I will place my lily pipes too if I had a 4 feet tank.
> With a tank this length, good idea to place the pipes on separate ends to minimize the dead spots in the tank. Though I always test it out by using floating pellets or leaves after setting up a filter to test how effective my placement of the inlet and outlet is.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi
So you suggest something like this photo below where the pipes are at the corners?
planed-flow-changed.jpg

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## mercur1al

> Hi
> So you suggest something like this photo below where the pipes are at the corners?
> planed-flow-changed.jpg


Sorry I wasn't clear earlier, I meant I would place my pipes the same way you planned originally, with the inlet and outlet together and the other set at the diagonal corner.

I thought about the placement you just put up, with each pipe at each corner. The worry is that the flow will be just be at the front and back of the tank, with the flow near your driftwood relatively stagnant.

Alternatively, could consider placing both inlets slightly apart at one end of the tank, with the outlets placed similarly on the other end of the tank.

A lot would depend on the flow rate of your canister, and how far the pipes can push the water. 

Do a search on muar_chee's 4 feet riverscape, he similarly employs 2 canister.


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## Filet-O-Fish

> Do a search on muar_chee's 4 feet riverscape, he similarly employs 2 canister.


Thanks for the referral. I did read his post. It was awesome. :Smile:

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## Filet-O-Fish

Ok. The babies are here from UK. Can't wait to try them out.

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## mercur1al

Where did you order from bro? Why cal compared to common brands like Viv, Gush etc? 


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## Filet-O-Fish

> Where did you order from bro? Why cal compared to common brands like Viv, Gush etc? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi, :-)
Maybe you can read post #6 onwards on the thread to get a better idea.

Cheers.

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## Bieffe

> Ok. The babies are here from UK. Can't wait to try them out.


Damage in pounds? I hope not.

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## stream

I'm curious; I know it looks nice but does the lily pipe serves a more practical function than the conventional spray bar? Just an innocent question, don't mend to offend anyone.


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## Bieffe

Spray bar to me generates too much bubble and splashed and stains the glass. For planted tank we don't want induce too much agitation so our co2 is lost back to the atmosphere. 
The spray bar does that that's why I stop using it when I started planting. Not to mention it look ugly. Glass lily pipe looks class. Is flow without thrust?

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## Urban Aquaria

> I'm curious; I know it looks nice but does the lily pipe serves a more practical function than the conventional spray bar? Just an innocent question, don't mend to offend anyone.


Lily pipes are designed to create a wider flow pattern with a gentle surface current (slight surface agitation but not too much). The shape of the lily pipe also creates a mini vortex just below the water surface which draws in water, this also helps to clear surface oil films too (to a certain extent).

Here is an example of the mini vortex effect:



Photo from google images.

Lily pipes are also made of transparent glass, which look unobtrusive and almost invisible in a tank, especially for those with planted aquascapes and who want as little visible equipment in the tank as possible... rather than the original stock green or grey plastic pipes that just look too obvious.  :Grin:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Damage in pounds? I hope not.


Hi
The price is 1/2 of that of Singapore's. It was like paying for the price of one especially when there was no shipping charges involved. 
Shipping : FOC (courtesy of relatives in UK) :Cool:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Spray bar to me generates too much bubble and splashed and stains the glass. For planted tank we don't want induce too much agitation so our co2 is lost back to the atmosphere. 
> The spray bar does that that's why I stop using it when I started planting. Not to mention it look ugly. Glass lily pipe looks class. Is flow without thrust?


Word for word, I agree. Couldn't agree any more.



BTW: I wish I had know this 8 months back and I could have saved myself a lot of $$$$$ and  :Exasperated:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Lily pipes are designed to create a wider flow pattern with a gentle surface current (slight surface agitation but not too much).


Can same surface agitation provided by the pipes at daytime be enough for night time also? 
I ask because I have seen a video on ADA's website where the staff raise the lily pipes to just above the water surface before closing for the day and this creates a more prominent rippling effect on the surface. This leads to better oxygenation of the water. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers.

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## Filet-O-Fish

BTW I intend to connect the lily pipes with ADA or some generic brand translucent tube to make the connection look cool. Can I use this ring to make sure the connection more secure or do I not need it at all?


Photo credit: Green Chapter.

I saw this awesome lily pipe cleaning visual instructions on Green Chapter's website.
http://www.gcshop-sg.com/store_filter_pipe_clean.php

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## Bieffe

Was told during co2 there should be no surface agitation. Then when co2 cut off we agitate surface for O2. But that means moving the outlet or you can have 2 timers one more is to control air pump. Then no need to touch lily pipe. But too troublesome for lazy me.

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## mercur1al

> BTW I intend to connect the lily pipes with ADA or some generic brand translucent tube to make the connection look cool. Can I use this ring to make sure the connection more secure or do I not need it at all?
> 
> 
> Photo credit: Green Chapter.
> 
> I saw this awesome lily pipe cleaning visual instructions on Green Chapter's website.
> http://www.gcshop-sg.com/store_filter_pipe_clean.php



As long as you get the correct size piping there should be no need for hose clips. I don't use any on mine, no leakage at all (touchwood!)

What i normally do before fitting the hoses for the first time, get a cup of hot water, soak the end of the hose in it for a while to soften it. When im satisfied that the hoses are soft enough, insert them into the end of the lily pipes. Once the hoses cool down sufficiently there should be a good snug fit. 

The hose clips will work as well, but imo is counterproductive to the ultra clean look with clear hoses and glass lily pipes. In addition, if you are looking for clear hoses, i got some recently from Chihiros. Fairly happy with it, good quality and price is considerably lower than ADA.  :Smug:

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## mercur1al

> Was told during co2 there should be no surface agitation. Then when co2 cut off we agitate surface for O2. But that means moving the outlet or you can have 2 timers one more is to control air pump. Then no need to touch lily pipe. But too troublesome for lazy me.


Some of us use a surface skimmer. For planted tanks, or tanks where the bioload is high or you feed them quite a bit, you will find that an oily surface film quickly appears. Also, for tanks without covers, dirt/dust, insects and all sorts of weird stuff can form at your water surface. The surface skimmer helps to get rid of it.

For myself, i run the CO2 from 10am - 6pm, and the lights from 11am - 7pm. The surface skimmer turns on at 8pm until the next morning, and this helps to increase content of oxygen in the water.

Have tried it out, if i don't turn on the skimmer at all, the drop checker stays green throughout the night until the next morning before my co2 injection. However, if i run the surface skimmer, before the Co2 starts running the next morning, my drop checker is blue. Best of both ways in my opinion, little Co2 loss during the photoperiod, and highly oxygenated water throughout the night for my fauna and flora too.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> But too troublesome for lazy me.


Count me in bro. :Laughing:  
Also the airstones look so cheesy in a planted tank. :Rolling Eyes:  ( for me at least).

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## Filet-O-Fish

> As long as you get the correct size piping there should be no need for hose clips. I don't use any on mine, no leakage at all (touchwood!)
> 
> What i normally do before fitting the hoses for the first time, get a cup of hot water, soak the end of the hose in it for a while to soften it. When im satisfied that the hoses are soft enough, insert them into the end of the lily pipes. Once the hoses cool down sufficiently there should be a good snug fit. 
> 
> The hose clips will work as well, but imo is counterproductive to the ultra clean look with clear hoses and glass lily pipes.


As this is my first attempt at lily pipes, I think I'm being kiasu. :Laughing: 




> In addition, if you are looking for clear hoses, i got some recently from Chihiros. Fairly happy with it, good quality and price is considerably lower than ADA.


Wow great tip! But I don't understand "Chihiros" is . Can you be more specific please. Thank you. :Well done:

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Some of us use a surface skimmer. For planted tanks, or tanks where the bioload is high or you feed them quite a bit, you will find that an oily surface film quickly appears. Also, for tanks without covers, dirt/dust, insects and all sorts of weird stuff can form at your water surface. The surface skimmer helps to get rid of it.
> 
> For myself, i run the CO2 from 10am - 6pm, and the lights from 11am - 7pm. The surface skimmer turns on at 8pm until the next morning, and this helps to increase content of oxygen in the water.
> 
> Have tried it out, if i don't turn on the skimmer at all, the drop checker stays green throughout the night until the next morning before my co2 injection. However, if i run the surface skimmer, before the Co2 starts running the next morning, my drop checker is blue. Best of both ways in my opinion, little Co2 loss during the photoperiod, and highly oxygenated water throughout the night for my fauna and flora too.


I'm surprised at the wealth of knowledge in this forum. Kudos to the founder(s) and members.

I had just fixed the Eheim skimmer about 2 hours ago on a timer. During the past few days when I was trying to get the optimum Co2, I has a few days where the fish were gasping. I did notice that whenever I switched on the skimmer, after an hour or more, the the fish would calm down and head towards the middle of the tank.

Thanks for your post. Now I know I'm heading in the right direction. :-)

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## mercur1al

> As this is my first attempt at lily pipes, I think I'm being kiasu.
> 
> 
> Wow great tip! But I don't understand "Chihiros" is . Can you be more specific please. Thank you.


Chihiros is a brand which some LFS carry right now. I believe Sunpets at Seletar Farmway and Aquatic Ave at Redhill have them currently. 



Alternatively, if you don't want clear transparent hoses, ISTA has a range of hoses that are translucent grey as well. Could slightly help to delay your maintenance of the hoses, they eventually turn brown/green with mulm and algae. Here's a picture of how the ISTA hoses look like.



All images from google images.

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## mercur1al

> I'm surprised at the wealth of knowledge in this forum. Kudos to the founder(s) and members.
> 
> I had just fixed the Eheim skimmer about 2 hours ago on a timer. During the past few days when I was trying to get the optimum Co2, I has a few days where the fish were gasping. I did notice that whenever I switched on the skimmer, after an hour or more, the the fish would calm down and head towards the middle of the tank.
> 
> Thanks for your post. Now I know I'm heading in the right direction. :-)


If you see your fish gasping for breath, yes chances are they lack oxygen.

How is your CO2 set up? Is it on a timer? Best to observe it for the next few days, make sure the needle valve is holding the CO2 levels steadily, and your timer is working fine. You can also get a drop checker to see how your Co2 levels are, they change colour to indicate the Co2 concentration in the water.

One added advantage is that you can shift the drop checker anywhere in your tank to see if the flow of Co2 is evenly distributed throughout lower flow portions of the tank.

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## skytan

> As long as you get the correct size piping there should be no need for hose clips. I don't use any on mine, no leakage at all (touchwood!)
> 
> What i normally do before fitting the hoses for the first time, get a cup of hot water, soak the end of the hose in it for a while to soften it. When im satisfied that the hoses are soft enough, insert them into the end of the lily pipes. Once the hoses cool down sufficiently there should be a good snug fit. 
> 
> The hose clips will work as well, but imo is counterproductive to the ultra clean look with clear hoses and glass lily pipes. In addition, if you are looking for clear hoses, i got some recently from Chihiros. Fairly happy with it, good quality and price is considerably lower than ADA.


where to get the chiroro ones?
was looking for a alternative for the evergreen ehiem but only Ada at 3X was too much for me for a hose


opss missed Ur post on where it's avaliable . Hehe

anyways chiroros also have the Ada look alike lamps super tempted to buy sia
b

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## mercur1al

> where to get the chiroro ones?
> was looking for a alternative for the evergreen ehiem but only Ada at 3X was too much for me for a hose
> 
> 
> opss missed Ur post on where it's avaliable . Hehe
> 
> anyways chiroros also have the Ada look alike lamps super tempted to buy sia
> b


I'm using the lights for my 2 feet.

Relatively happy with it so far, really bright with a 7 step brightness control with a dimmer. 

However, since my tank is undergoing dry start method, real test only begins when it's fully planted. Built quality is top notch though! 
Attachment 47544


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Chihiros is a brand which some LFS carry right now. I believe Sunpets at Seletar Farmway and Aquatic Ave at Redhill have them currently. 
> 
> Alternatively, if you don't want clear transparent hoses, ISTA has a range of hoses that are translucent grey as well. Could slightly help to delay your maintenance of the hoses, they eventually turn brown/green with mulm and algae. Here's a picture of how the ISTA hoses look like.


I tried with Ista brand grey tubes. Since they're softer type, I had severe leaks at the joint with the lily pipe. Whereas with the Eheim green hose, the fitting is snug and doesn't require any clips. I'll drop by aquatic ave and check out the other brand. 
Cheers

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## mercur1al

> I tried with Ista brand grey tubes. Since they're softer type, I had severe leaks at the joint with the lily pipe. Whereas with the Eheim green hose, the fitting is snug and doesn't require any clips. I'll drop by aquatic ave and check out the other brand. 
> Cheers


Were your grey hoses torn or not inserted fully?

The ISTA hoses are actually fairly strong, on my
smaller canister they are doing quite well. Photo shows how "deep" the lily pipes are inserted into the hoses.

But clear hoses looks better. Attachment 47545


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## skytan

> I'm using the lights for my 2 feet.
> 
> Relatively happy with it so far, really bright with a 7 step brightness control with a dimmer. 
> 
> However, since my tank is undergoing dry start method, real test only begins when it's fully planted. Built quality is top notch though! 
> Attachment 47544
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow. Tempted but the local price tag is not easy for pocket also, maybe pay Eugene a visit tomorrow after lunch get some aircon.  :Laughing: 
Speaking of DSM , anyone tried/success story with Dwarf Hair Grass yet?

Btw nice wood and rocks there. Where did you get those?

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## mercur1al

Dwarf hair grass relatively easy to grow, don't really need to do a DSM. If your tank has Co2, just grow it submerged.

The rocks were from Eastocean, from the ANS range. Wood is from Aquatic Ave, comprising of 3 pieces put together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Were your grey hoses torn or not inserted fully?
> The ISTA hoses are actually fairly strong, on my
> smaller canister they are doing quite well. Photo shows how "deep" the lily pipes are inserted into the hoses.
> But clear hoses looks better.


Hi,
The hose was in good condition. The main reason mine leaked was due to the high pressure from the Eheim 2080 (1750L/hr) for 4 feet tank.
Cheers.

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## Filet-O-Fish

> Dwarf hair grass relatively easy to grow, don't really need to do a DSM. If your tank has Co2, just grow it submerged.


How do they fare against HC or Monte Carlo carpet plants in terms of maintenance or growth rate?

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## Maru

Somehow my jap hairgrass (shld be similar to dwarf rite?) growing very well, sprouting all over the place (abeit abit yellow) but my monte carlo is stunted.... thinking of even uprooting all the mc and replace with jap hairgrass.....  :Sad: 

oh mine is low tech tank but using neo co2 for the time being. expending soon, wont top up anymore

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## Bieffe

> I'm using the lights for my 2 feet.
> 
> Relatively happy with it so far, really bright with a 7 step brightness control with a dimmer. 
> 
> However, since my tank is undergoing dry start method, real test only begins when it's fully planted. Built quality is top notch though! 
> Attachment 47544
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like your scape! Nice.

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## mercur1al

> How do they fare against HC or Monte Carlo carpet plants in terms of maintenance or growth rate?


I never tried HC due to how demanding they are.

But hairgrass in my opinion ranks as one of the easiest plants, almost zero need to maintain them. They grow relatively short and in a rosette pattern so the older growth is not shaded by the new growth. 

Only thing to consider is that they look bigger than MC, hence for smaller tanks, my personal belief is that MC will still look better.


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## mercur1al

> Somehow my jap hairgrass (shld be similar to dwarf rite?) growing very well, sprouting all over the place (abeit abit yellow) but my monte carlo is stunted.... thinking of even uprooting all the mc and replace with jap hairgrass..... 
> 
> oh mine is low tech tank but using neo co2 for the time being. expending soon, wont top up anymore


Had the same experience in a low tech. Started out with MC but they were not spreading well.

Replaced them with jap hairgrass and they took off. 


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## mercur1al

> I like your scape! Nice.


Thank you for your compliment. Actually my first time trying out aquascaping so decided to keep things simple. Or rather I just don't have ideas 


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## Bieffe

Someone mention plastic lily pipes...where to get those?

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## mercur1al

> Someone mention plastic lily pipes...where to get those?


From EBay.

Check out this review of acrylic lily pipes that UA did.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...d.php?t=111830

Very comprehensive.


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## Bieffe

> From EBay.
> 
> Check out this review of acrylic lily pipes that UA did.
> 
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...d.php?t=111830
> 
> Very comprehensive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you sir.

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