# Planted Tanks > Aquascaping >  25cm cube nano journal

## illumnae

I've just collected my 25cm cube for a future office tank, and am going to take my time to get it up and ready for transport to the office around Christmas.

Tank specs: 25cm x 25cm x 25cm (~16 litres)
Lighting: 13W PL
CO2: None, using Excel as a carbon source
Fertilization: Wondergro Macro+ and Micro+ using modified EI for non co2 tanks
Fauna: Undecided
Flora: Rotala wallichii, Hemanthius micantemoides, japanese hairgrass, downoi, spiky moss, anubias nana petite

----------


## illumnae

I've purchased 3 pieces of wood to act as part of the hardscape for this tank:



I'm intending to tie them together to hopefully achieve a branchy look with the block acting as a base to help the entire setup to stand. I'll probably have to saw off parts of the branchy wood to get it all the fit into my tank. Here's a possible arrangement i've come up with so far, to be placed at the back right corner of the tank slanted to face the front:



The bottom bits will be sawn off, and anubias nana petite and spiky moss will be tied on to help break the shape and hide the harsher lines and points of joining.

What do you think?

----------


## illumnae

2 alternative wood placements:





anyone can give any advice?

----------


## yeoyl87

The first layout seems nicer. The second and third layout seems a bit symmetrical. Asymmetrical look gives people the impression of complexity and will look nicer/impressive to the eyes.

----------


## Aquaculture

Yes I agree. The branches look better with just the 2 of them as in the 1st photo, without the block like wood.

----------


## illumnae

would it look nicer if i just had the smooth branch sticking out and do away with the other branch altogether? i figure since it's such a small tank, too much detail might make it too cluttered?

----------


## shrimp999

Maybe you directly put the wood inside the tank for better positioning. :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

> Maybe you directly put the wood inside the tank for better positioning.


the woods are too big...i need to saw them first, that's why posting pictures for opinions so i don't saw wrongly  :Grin:  once sawn, no more turning back

----------


## brianclaw

The first one is definitely better, but will look unnatural when placed in the tank. You need another branch. Even numbers will always look weird when trying to mimic nature.

----------


## illumnae

so would just having 1 branch make things better?  :Smile:

----------


## brianclaw

Nope, it would just seem lonely. And a little obscene looking. Heheh... Seriously though, another branch would help balance out the look a little more.

----------


## illumnae

i'll try to find another one...but i'm very afraid of overcluttering the tank...all i want is for the wood to take up 1/4 of the tank max...like in the back corner...i want alot of foreground space basically  :Smile:

----------


## Jaws

I agree with what bro Brianclaw said. Thats what I have been trying to tell you...

----------


## Shadow

Some I can't picture it in my mind  :Embarassed: . I need to look when it is inside tank  :Razz:

----------


## Jaws

> Some I can't picture it in my mind . I need to look when it is inside tank


Thats what I told him but the problem is once he is done with it, I don't think he wants a rescape. Thats what I heard from him  :Grin: .

----------


## illumnae

Andy, what i said to you was that once the wood has been sawn, it's impossible to "undo" it and try again when it doesn't turn out satisfactory. That's why i'm posting pictures here and asking for opinions, to avoid sawing the wood then discovering that it's piss ugly (e.g. the 2nd and 3rd pictures)

----------


## Jaws

I think you might want to go with Brainclaws idea of getting another piece of wood. I think a thinner piece will look good. By the way, I already enquired for you regarding the wood but no reply yet. But be prepared to pay more than what you paid for those 3 pieces.

----------


## Shadow

I agreed with thinner piece, your tank is quite small, 25cm cube

----------


## shrimp999

If trying to sawn the wood and squeez all 3 in your 25cm cube. Your foreground might not enough at what you expected.
Have you consider bogwood instead of driftwood? Because bogwood got more branchy. :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

i haven't been able to find small enough bogwood that i like =) honestly the scape i'm trying to achieve involves bushy stem plants in the back and midground that should obscure most of the wood except for the branchy bits sticking out with weeping/spiky moss tied on. that's why i'm thinking of just having 1 branch stick out, with a slanted stone in the midground as the only hardscape...then i'll leave the rest of the scape to the plants  :Smile:  trying to have as little hardscape as possible

----------


## illumnae

update (ignore the cutsey stuff at the back...oyama not in yet and that's a temporary housing location for my tank):







Looks like it has potential, though i find it slightly too large for my liking, it will do i guess. i intend to grow bushes of HM to hide the sawn bits at the front of the block, and the gravel should hide the concave bottom by filling it up. what do you think?

----------


## Shadow

Both branches are too parallel to each other, try make it into an agle. You can hide the saw with couples of roc arrange in front of it. Moss tied to rock might also work. HM can grow quite tall in short time, so you might need to trim it regulartly.

----------


## illumnae

final try:



it's abit flat now because the soil isn't in to hold the wood in position, but the general idea is there...i intend to slant the middle wood to the front abit more so thata it's pointing forward, and the left piece won't be resting on the glass (hopefully). i might saw the left piece also to make it less tall in case it overbalances, or use a rock/piece of sawn wood to hold it up

----------


## |squee|

I think you might need some rockwork at the base of the wood arrangement. Right now I think you don't have a solid "base" where the wood can point upwards without looking artificial at the bottom.  :Smile: 

The previous one looked more solid, because it had a base.

Also can try making some of the wood somehow point outwards towards the viewer, so depth is created, so your intention to slant it to the front might be good.

----------


## illumnae

i'm intending to use plants and the leftover sawn of bits to create (with wood) and obscure (with plants) the base...i might get some small stones to half bury there as well.

the middle branch is definitely going to be slanted towards the front, just that as the substrate is not in yet (haven't pasted oyama so don't wanna pour the soil in) there's nothing to hold it up if it's slanted. i'll probably need to employ the sawn off pieces of wood anyway to hold the slanted pieces up.

but what do you think overall of this latest hardscape...better than the previous ones?  :Smile:

----------


## shrimp999

I think the previous one look nicer. Although the wood looks slightly big inside your tank.
Maybe you switch over the 2 brachy and try out. Shorter one in front and longer one face to right. Adding some stone or rocks to covered the block at the middle.

----------


## illumnae

you find the "rocket launcher" nicer?  :Grin: 

i'll keep your comments in mind and try it out tomorrow  :Smile:

----------


## shrimp999

Maybe you can stick up the Oyama, pour in the soil, make some slope, placing your woods here and there and take some pictures.
I usually do that because sometimes it is quite difficult to imagine by just using the bare tank. :Smile:

----------


## Nevada

> Maybe you directly put the wood inside the tank for better positioning.


Illumnae,

I agree with Shrimp999! do the tryout in the tank. That way you can see right away the effect of the positioning. Sometimes the positioning you did outside the tank might not look as nice as when it is in the tank. 

Gd Luck!

Edwin

----------


## illumnae

i've been delaying pasting the oyama because it's something my fiancee volunteered to do  :Grin:  i could have done it days ago in a matter of minutes, but as i've mentioned in another thread, i like to keep my fiancee involved in my hobby so since she volunteered i'm delaying the task so she can do it

i think i'll probably end up doing a variation of the final picture i posted...it somehow just seems the most natural looking to me honestly, with just the 3 branchy bits pointing out in different directions. i'll probably play around with the directions of the branches and take |squee|'s and shrimp999's suggestions of a rock or wood base and leave that as my final scape. 

hopefully in this low tech the jap hairgrass will be able to spread nicely into a lawn by Christmas so i can drive it to the office over the Christmas/New Year holiday season

----------


## shrimp999

So sweet :Kiss: haha...
Your fiancee willing to paste oyama for your tank, my wife only willing to paste medicinal plaster for me....
My wife never get involve with my hobby. :Sad: 
Still got couple of month to go before christmas. You can do it! :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

Here's a slight update. I bought some bamboo charcoal from Daiso and pounded it with a hammer and used it as a first layer under the soil. was gonna add biogravel too to colonize bacteria, but realised that it wasn't needed as bamboo charcoal is porous in itself. added some fish food to feed the bacteria and old tank water + beneficial bacteria liquid to kickstart the culture and filled up the soil. this is kind of an experiment so we'll see how it goes. the soil is about an inch at the front and 2 inches behind...is this too much for a 25cm cube?


charcoal from the front


charcoal from the top


soil filled in

----------


## PLee

nice update Bro ... all the best !!!

----------


## oblivion

don't worry about the slope
my 1-foot cube is barely 1.5cm at the front and close to 3 inch at the back and i still think its not high enough  :Grin:

----------


## illumnae

I finally had some spare time this morning and here's what i've come up with. it's still semi planted as i intend to get HM to create a bush around the front of the wood to obscure it. the rock is meant to hold the floating wood down and will be removed one day. did i plant too much _Rotala wallichii_ in and should i remove some stems out to make it more sparse? Sorry for the poor photo quality. i have shaky hands so i always end up taking blur pics unless i support both my hands on a stable surface.


here's the hardscape before the water went in


here's the tank as it is now, missing the HM

----------


## shrimp999

Maybe you should use a tripod to take some picture? :Grin: 
From the hardscape picture you posted, the "rocket" seems OK. 
But the final picture with water filled, the "rocket" seems abit long from the front view. :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

haha yeah it floats, hence i had to use the rock to weigh it down, and it affected the positioning

----------


## yeoyl87

Hmmm.... I'm not sure if your rotala wallichii will maintain its redness in your low tech tank. Red plants will need more requirement to do well.

----------


## ranmasatome

that piece of wood sticking out...like sticking into my eye leh.. :Grin:  quite irritating..
got some way to soften it?

----------


## illumnae

what would you recommend? more moss tied onto it? i was hoping the moss tied at the tip would lush out and soften the point

----------


## ranmasatome

actually.. its not that its sticking out that matters..its that its sticking out so so so straightly... perhaps moss will help break that straightness... everytime i look at it..it seems like your tank is having a constant erection... or alternatively..you can use more wood to mask it...

----------


## illumnae

I don't think i want to put any more hardscape in. Hopefully the moss will grow lush and help break the straightness. There will also be HM planted around the base of the wood, so when that grows out the bottom part of the branch will be obscured and there will be less of a branch to see...that may help?

----------


## illumnae

anyone have any suggestions for fauna for this tank? my soft spot is still for south american dwarf cichlids, so if any can fit in here it'd be great. Other options i've come up with are:

1. a pair of small wild bettas (but i heard they're great jumpers and i have no cover)
2. a pair/trio of sparkling or croaking gouramis (are they easy to sex?)
3. a pair/trio of dario dario (are they easy to sex?)
3. a trio of threadfin rainbowfish (again, are they easy to sex? haha)
4. shrimp only (i'm trying to avoid this as i find shrimps rather boring)

the tank will be supplemented with an oto (zebra maybe?) for algae work and perhaps a few cherry/tiger shrimp if they won't get eaten by the feature fish. if space permits perhaps 5 boraras, but i doubt i can go with the boraras as the tank is real small

----------


## tcy81

maybe you can try Pseudomugil gertrudae ?

find it very nice fish.  :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

it's a very beautiful fish...similar to the threadfin rainbows yet pretty in its own way  :Smile: 

i've never seen it in our LFS though...where can i find them, and are they easily sexed? if i keep these i think i'll do a trio like with the threadfin rainbows  :Smile: 

the only downside i can see is the short lifespan of about a year, based on a link i saw on google

----------


## tcy81

> it's a very beautiful fish...similar to the threadfin rainbows yet pretty in its own way 
> 
> i've never seen it in our LFS though...where can i find them, and are they easily sexed? if i keep these i think i'll do a trio like with the threadfin rainbows 
> 
> the only downside i can see is the short lifespan of about a year, based on a link i saw on google


didnt see it in LFS before.Need to look around. Male i think will be long fins & nicer colouration.
only seen Pseudomugil furcatus before.

----------


## illumnae

Here it is planted in:





The HM is still short, i'm expecting it to grow higher to obscure certain parts of the hardscape to create a more natural feel. I'm starting to think that i paid for japanese hairgrass but got normal one instead, since it doesn't seem to be curling but is growing upwards instead...can anyone help with a positive id?

Anyone else have any suggestions as to the fauna i can keep in this tank?

----------


## yeoyl87

Emersed Japanese hairgrass looks like normal hairgrass. Just give it more time to convert :-)

----------


## uklau

Based on my experience, I'm quite postive that the one in your tank is Japanese hairgrass. Like what yeoyl87 mentioned, it'll curl eventually.

----------


## illumnae

hopefully it'll curl once the conversion from emmerse to submerse form is complete  :Smile:  my downoi seems to be melting though i made sure to plant the stem out of the soil...wonder if it's just incompatible or whether it's also converting from emmerse to submerse form  :Confused:

----------


## shrimp999

My Japanese Hairgrass looks same as yours too.
You bought the emmerse downoi?

----------


## illumnae

i bought the cheap downoi from c328. it was emmersed, but then put underwater for a few days before i bought it

----------


## tcy81

> i bought the cheap downoi from c328. it was emmersed, but then put underwater for a few days before i bought it


think all LFS that sells downoi by pots should be emmersed. unless you get those already planted ones but not too sure if it will still melts when introduce into new tank like crypts.

how is your downoi now, did you trim off the melt leaves ?

----------


## illumnae

one downoi has totally melted down (as in all the leaves) while the other is half surviving...didn't know i was supposed to trim off the melted leaves  :Embarassed:  i thought i had to leave them alone as with crypts...they fall off after a day or so. i'll trim off whatever's left now!

hopefully they survive...i think they'll look cute as a foreground feature sticking out amongst the japanese hairgrass lawn

----------


## Shadow

you are using gex and gex is similar to ada, so it may not work well with downoi. Did you plant them the root only? That the way to plant downoi on ada to avoid melt.

----------


## illumnae

Yup as mentioned above, i planted in roots only without the stem in the soil at all

----------


## illumnae

Here's the tank after 1 month. I'm dosing excel 3 times a week and wondergro macro+ and micro+ once a week at 1/3 the recommended dosage based on Tom Barr's low tech recommended dosing. Growth is there, but slow...spreading of hairgrass still leaves much to be desired, but i haven't trimmed it to encourage creeping yet so maybe that's why. i've trimmed the rotala once...probably will need to do the HM soon as well to get a bushier cluster.




I'm still clueless as to what fish to keep in here. Any recommendations? It's too small for dwarf cichlids and i have no cover for bettas, but i would like fish with character and not boring swim back and forth fish like tetras...any recommendations?

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

A pair of dwarf gouramies or small gobies. Or just a simple small puffer.
Oh and the P.weitzmani tetra which Nicholas says is in stock at Biotope?

----------


## illumnae

6 week old tank. the weeping moss is growing visibly since 2 weeks ago, but it doesn't weep. guess my water's not cold enough. HM and Rotala wallichii show obvious growth and i'm trimming them to try and get thicker and bushier growth. Hairgrass still isn't spreading despite a recent haircut

The fauna is now 5x Ruby tetras and 10x Tiger shrimp. the shrimp are a recent addition to help tackle some hair algae, and i must say that they're pretty facinating to watch. I never was interested in shrimp before this  :Grin:  They're slightly annoying at times though as their sifting through the substrate for food tends to uproot some hairgrass and HM so i have to do daily replanting. Hope the plants root better soon!

The Ruby tetras are 3 reds and 2 orange...think the orange ones will never turn red sadly =( 2 of the red ones i bought from Midori's show tank today  :Laughing:  they're smaller in size but definitely redder than the 2 old orange ones i bought months back...hopefully they'll eventually grow to be the same size as my older 3. i hope they all colour up soon as they tend to disappear into the background at the moment due to their largely transluscent bodies.

i'm wondering now if my fauna is sufficient (still hunting for a tiger oto !) or whether i should add more ruby tetras to make a larger school or some feature fish (leaning towards a trio of threadfin rainbows from Biotope).

----------


## illumnae

gardening section =)

----------


## illumnae

The HM started to annoy me as it refused to root well and kept floating up when agitated by the shrimp foraging for food at its base, and the rotala wallichii started to look bald due to its needle-like leaves and the fast flow from being directly under the filter HOB outlet (this was before i decided to buy a Boyu EF-05 mini canister for the tank), so what was supposed to be a trimming session became instead a rescape. The general feel is still there, but the HM got replaced by Echi. parvifluous "Tropica" while the Rotala wallichii got replaced by Ludwigia arcuata. I also got 1/4 pot of japanese hairgrass to try and get a quicker lawn.

New fauna has also gone in since my last update. The inhabitants are now 2x Betta falx (1 pair), 1x zebra oto, 1x yamato shrimp, 1x tiger shrimp and 1x zebra snail. I'm looking to add some small dithers (probably boraras) but currently the only place selling them is too far for me to travel.

here's what it looks like now (poorer quality than usual due to my using of hp camera):

----------


## illumnae

did a major rescape today to replace the plants used with low maintenance ones...got sick of trimming stem plants and clearing loose moss from the hairgrass

----------


## EvolutionZ

i find that the rock is too white.. maybe you want to look for another rock with more of the greyish colour?..
my 2 cents.

----------


## Jervis

I find it much better than the old scaping... love that crypto!

----------

