# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  Where can I buy powdered Potassium Nitrate?

## wahboy

Hello everyone, 

Where can I buy potassium nitrate? 

Dr Mallick does not sell the powdered form anymore. 

Wahboy

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## bossteck

I thought they still sell it, just that it is now a controlled item and you need a license from the SCDF before you can purchase it.

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## Fuzzy

Potassium Nitrate is now restricted as an explosives precursor you need licensing from Singapore Police Force - Arms and Explosives division.

In other words can just forget about it. 

Potassium nitrate can only be sold in Aqueous solution of below 5% concentration, but I haven't seen this being offered anywhere currently.

Calcium Nitrate (CaNO3) and Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) both are what most aquarists are using instead of Potassium Nitrate now.

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## bossteck

Oh not SCDF? My mistake.

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## Fuzzy

Its really quite messy, some chemicals / compressed gases are under SCDF, some are under SPF...I inquired about applying for a permit for KNO3, but I just totally give up, its not meant for normal human beings, or small scale personal users to be able to get a permit apparently.

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## GaspingGurami

Use Calcium Nitrate and Potassium Sulfate as Fuzzy suggested, Or Calcium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate.

Plants also need calcium, and our tap water is very lean to expect any significant Calcium replacement through water changes. 

HTH

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## Fuzzy

Potassium Phosphate is probably a better pairing with Calcium Nitrate than Potassium Sulfate.

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## bossteck

Hi Fuzzy, 

I used APC's fertilator and found that Potassium Phoshate would add excessive amounts of Phosphate into the tank while adding only moderate amounts of Potassium.

Think Potassium Sulfate is still the next best alternative to KNO3.

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## blue33

Huh... Potassium Sulfate *OR* Potassium Phosphate = Potassium Nitrate? Are you guys sure? Btw i'm currently using double dosage of Potassium Phosphate using EI method. Algae totally dont appear. For Potassium Sulphate, your shrimps may suffer if you add more when i was doing research on it during my fert test. I already stop using Potassium Sulphate.  :Grin: 

Btw recently i saw this guy from another forum which he increase dosage on Potassium Phosphate and he gets good result and no algae issue. Previously he also follow the standard EI method but change after his research.

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## bossteck

Adrian, 

I don't think we're saying they are equal. 
But as alternatives to the now unavailable KNO3. 

It is interesting to read about yours and the other person's success with Potassium Phosphate, think I will switch to that after I finish my current batch of Potassium Sulphate.

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## GaspingGurami

In the past, I used to add a higher ratio of Potassium (K) than I do with Phosphate (P) and Nitrate (N) without adding Ca thinking that Ca can be gotten from water changes weekly. On top of adding micros, I had to really bump up the CO2 to ensure algae don't come a calling.

Now, I've been using a lot of Calcium from Calcium nitrate, and I increased the P using Potassium Phosphate, while not adding any extra K other than what I added thru KH2PO4. (trace elements etc are also added, and I've cut down usage of Mg to almost not dosing)

I found that plants are more stable in growth, without the need for additional CO2. Even my Aponogeton madacascarensis, which is reputed to go dormant, had been constantly putting out leaves for couple of months after flowering, even though I had not removed its spike (so happy to have it flower wor, this is not a common apon flowering. so how to bear to snip it?). 

I think it is a fallacy that adding phosphates will cause your tank problems.

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## blue33

Glad to hear another successful story on using Potassium Phosphate.  :Well done:  I still using Magnesium Sulfate, result pretty good thought compared to Potassium sulfate.  :Smile: 

What i find in Potassium Phosphate and those in the water column poo poo is one is organic one is not, so it gives a misleading concept that it will lead to algae growth etc etc....

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## Fuzzy

> Hi Fuzzy, 
> 
> I used APC's fertilator and found that Potassium Phoshate would add excessive amounts of Phosphate into the tank while adding only moderate amounts of Potassium.
> 
> Think Potassium Sulfate is still the next best alternative to KNO3.


Ooh interesting, I'll have to play with that app. I've not tried Potassium Phosphate yet, as I still have some KNO3 leftover, but it seemed in theory that having your NPK+Ca taken care of all at one shot would be a win win situation.





> Huh... Potassium Sulfate *OR* Potassium Phosphate = Potassium Nitrate? Are you guys sure? Btw i'm currently using double dosage of Potassium Phosphate using EI method. Algae totally dont appear. For Potassium Sulphate, your shrimps may suffer if you add more when i was doing research on it during my fert test. I already stop using Potassium Sulphate. 
> 
> Btw recently i saw this guy from another forum which he increase dosage on Potassium Phosphate and he gets good result and no algae issue. Previously he also follow the standard EI method but change after his research.


We're talking about using Potassium Sulfate or Potassium Phosphate in conjunction with Calcium Nitrate to substitute for Potassium Nitrate. 

I think generally that fertilizing a shrimp tank is a bad idea though.

That's why I've reverted to low tech (no ferts, no CO2, no rooted plants) for the time being, want to concentrate on breeding Sakuras.

The other reason I was hesitant to go with Potassium Sulfate was the concern that the extra sulfur in the system might lead to a spike in the anaerobic bacterial growth in the tank substrate, I need to do more research on this though.

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## blue33

Currently i dont face any death in shrimp at all using this method even i dose high dosage.  :Grin:  Btw i'm using Potassium Nitrate not Calcium Nitrate. I still find too much Calcium is no good.  :Smile:

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## Fuzzy

> Currently i dont face any death in shrimp at all using this method even i dose high dosage.  Btw i'm using Potassium Nitrate not Calcium Nitrate. I still find too much Calcium is no good.


What shrimp are you rearing? I'm assuming you're injecting CO2 also?

Hehe another lucky hoarder. Problem is what are we going to do when the KNO3 runs out..  :Opps:

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## blue33

Yes i inject high dosage CO2.  :Grin:  Cherry, Sakura, Malayan, Amano, etc... except CRS, as it is not suitable for my high tech planted tank. Well i think for many xxxxx ... i dont have to buy the fxxxx.  :Grin:

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## Shaihulud

I just bought 3kg of potassium nitrate, legitimately at $45 a kilo, was I ripped off? What was the normal price before the restriction? Cause it was way higher than I thought it should be.

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## Fuzzy

What is its purity? Lab grade 99.9% pure KNO3 used to cost around $25 per kg.

Can you PM me the details? thanks in advance!

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## Fuzzy

Ah ok, just as a quick update, bro Shaihulud's purchase method won't work for the rest of us. He is attached to scientific institution.

booo  :Sad:

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## Navanod

> Ah ok, just as a quick update, bro Shaihulud's purchase method won't work for the rest of us. He is attached to scientific institution.
> 
> booo


So am I  :Grin: 
But them cops track exactly how many grams each person takes (although they don't ask what you did with it unless the volume is very large). Problem is, the institute also restricts access to the KNO3, so unless one has a very good reason to buy/take it  :Crying: 

Still, I'm going to see if any vendors sells 5% solutions that'll bypass this restriction. Still beats the 0.3% Seachem N water  :Evil:

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## Fuzzy

Better still you guys should purchase from the supplier dilute to 5% and sell it to the community cheap!

hehe.

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## Growe

Read through the discussion thread and had the same question. I was at a chemical reagent store today - saw KNO3 but cannot buy. Yes, all sellers are binded by the police order. So unless you have left over (from previous purchase), you can forget it.

Testing the theory now. Using Potassium Chloride to add Potassium and Nitrate. KCL should break down into Potassium and Chlorine. Neutralise Chlorine with the normal method that you neutralise your tapwater, you get ammonnia. Then you leave the conversion of ammonia to nitrate to your best bio filter!

If you look at Shadow's website (quick calculator http://aquatic-art.blogspot.com/ ), you will notice that Potassium dosage in potassium phosphate is insignificant. To get the target potassium from it, you are asking for trouble (over infested with Phosphorus!)

Today, I added Potassium Chloride (1 tsp to my 240 litertank). see how it goes.

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## aquarius

> So am I 
> But them cops track exactly how many grams each person takes (although they don't ask what you did with it unless the volume is very large). Problem is, the institute also restricts access to the KNO3, so unless one has a very good reason to buy/take it 
> 
> Still, I'm going to see if any vendors sells 5% solutions that'll bypass this restriction. Still beats the 0.3% Seachem N water


I find it ridiculars why the suppliers can't just dilute the KNO3 to 5% or less and sell it to the public?  :Evil:  If the authorities don't have a problem with Seachem's Nitrate solution than they shouldn't have a problem if the supplier bottling it to less than 5% concentration and then package it properly for aquarium use like Seachem.  :Mad:  

And if suppliers in s'pore find it too troublesome to do it here due to red tapes, why don't someone get an overseas manufacturer to bottle it from overseas than import into s'pore???  :Idea:  Off course it has to be viable from a business point of view which means companies like ferka or wondergrow who already makes fertilizers may be able to bottle KNO3 and offer a much cheaper alternative to Seachem's Nitrate.

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## Navanod

> Read through the discussion thread and had the same question. I was at a chemical reagent store today - saw KNO3 but cannot buy. Yes, all sellers are binded by the police order. So unless you have left over (from previous purchase), you can forget it.
> 
> Testing the theory now. Using Potassium Chloride to add Potassium and Nitrate. KCL should break down into Potassium and Chlorine. Neutralise Chlorine with the normal method that you neutralise your tapwater, you get ammonnia. Then you leave the conversion of ammonia to nitrate to your best bio filter!
> 
> If you look at Shadow's website (quick calculator http://aquatic-art.blogspot.com/ ), you will notice that Potassium dosage in potassium phosphate is insignificant. To get the target potassium from it, you are asking for trouble (over infested with Phosphorus!)
> 
> Today, I added Potassium Chloride (1 tsp to my 240 litertank). see how it goes.


 
Erm bro, I hate to say this but your plan has a fundamental flaw.
Chlorine does not break down into ammonia!

We get ammonia from neutralizing our tapwater because we have chloramine in it (instead of just plain chlorine).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine

Since chloramine is chlorine bonded to ammonia to form a more stable compound, we get back the chlorine and ammonia upon breaking it down during anti-chlorine treatment. The chlorine then escapes into the air leaving ammonia behind.

Since Potassium Chloride only gives you chlorine after breaking it down (and not chloramine), there's no ammonia to be broken down into nitrate

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## Growe

Navanod is Right! :Exasperated:  Me wrong.

Need to retract my theory and present me a whole new perspective that I still need Nitrate. 

Any Chemist out there, if Chlorine can be dissipated pretty readily by bubbling or adding Sodium Thiosuphate, can I say by preparing KCL solution with KCL powder, add sodium Thiosuphate, I get good potassium K2O for my plant. Any undesirable biproducts will result? Does it end up with sulphurs like adding potassium sulphate? What is the best Potassium form that Aquarist should use? Currently, I have Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride and Potassium Sulphate in my vault.

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## GaspingGurami

Both chloride and sulphate are needed for plant growth. However, plants can eat more sulphate than chloride. Whatever the case, you still need the N component of your primary NPK macros. So you need to look at your nitrate needs. Currently I use Calcium Nitrate for the N. 

Some people have expressed concern about the increase of Ca by using Calcium Nitrate. I have not encountered any problem on my side (but YMMV). I've Madagascan lace leaf plant bloom and continue growing without going dormant using such a fert combination. I think Calcium's importance is something that had been mis emphasized.

LL

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## GaspingGurami

> I find it ridiculars why the suppliers can't just dilute the KNO3 to 5% or less and sell it to the public?  If the authorities don't have a problem with Seachem's Nitrate solution than they shouldn't have a problem if the supplier bottling it to less than 5% concentration and then package it properly for aquarium use like Seachem.  
> 
> And if suppliers in s'pore find it too troublesome to do it here due to red tapes, why don't someone get an overseas manufacturer to bottle it from overseas than import into s'pore???  Off course it has to be viable from a business point of view which means companies like ferka or wondergrow who already makes fertilizers may be able to bottle KNO3 and offer a much cheaper alternative to Seachem's Nitrate.


How about making your own nitrate?

Urea is a very cheap inorganic fertiliser sold at nurseries. It has very high N content, probably 46%. So you get a bag (around $5) of Urea, dissolve it, and chuck in an airstone and some filter mulm. Test NH3 and NO2 till both have become 0ppm and now you have for yourself Nitrate.

Someone with better counting skills than me may be able to give you the percentage of NO3.

LL

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## James_C

anyway to convert it while it dry?

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## Shaihulud

Urea breaks down into ammonia.

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## o2bubble

So, does anone knows how to get potassium nitrate? Can get from Malaysia?

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## Navanod

> So, does anone knows how to get potassium nitrate? Can get from Malaysia?


Potassium Nitrate is classified under the explosive precursor list and is a controlled substance by the arms and ordnance dept of the police force. Please do not try to bring it back from johor without a permit!

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## o2bubble

No need to look so hard anymore  :Razz:  Thanks guys!

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## TyroneGenade

Hello,

This is my mix which I use and it does work:
14.30 g KH2PO4
111.28 g K2CO3
61.74 g KCl
50.80 g HNO3 (or about 51.04 mL 70% HNO3 or 72.48 g 40% HNO3)

10 mL of this mix in 100 L will give: 10 ppm N, 20 ppm K and 2 ppm P. It also adds 1.2 ppm HCO3- which is meaningless as far as KH is concerned.

For Ca and Mg (2 and 1 ppm) you can make up a solution of 55.5 g CaCl2 and 47.6 g MgCl2 and add 10 mL/100 L. This solution must be made up separate to the P solution else the Ca and Mg will precipitate.

(I assume you are using anhydrous salts.)

These mixes are working well for me with my soft water where Cl ions are as essential as anything else. I do not have serious algae problems other than the hair algae and green spot algae I had in my tank before I started using this mix. My other thank is virtually algae free (except for the green water caused by too much sunlight and not enough CO2---my KH drops like a stone!).

To remedy my KH problem I add 2.5 mL of a 

To boost my KH I made a 412 g/L solution of K2CO3 and add 2.5 mL to 100 mL to boost my KH by 1 dKH (adding 17.9 ppm CO32-). This doesn't effect the pH to much (oddly enough). If you supply enough CO2 this KH boost shouldn't be needed.

A friend (who is a much better skilled biochemist than myself) had made up mixes of his own which work even better. He is in the works of marketing his NPK mix and already has a trace element and Ca/Mg mix on the marker for soft water. See http://www.apsa.co.za/board/index.php?topic=2152.0 I am not sure if he has a Singapore distributor as of yet.

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