# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Characins >  Woops, my Black Neon Tetras must have spawned...

## HockeyPisces14

I was just feeding some brine shrimp, when something tiny darted after them: Turns out my Black Neon Tetras (_Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi_) must have spawned without me noticing, and this little guy survived all on his own.  :Jump for joy: 
I was wondering, if anybody would have a rough estimate on how long ago the spawn would have occurred, judging by offspring size - the little guy is 1cm, tail and all. Completely free swimming and munching on a shrimp about his own size.

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## HockeyPisces14

Managed to catch the squiggly little guy on camera:

DSC_1204_A.jpg

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## zonkkie

Nice picture! Such surprises are always nice!

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## HockeyPisces14

Thanks! Yes, it is a lot of fun to watch those perfect little mini fish. I found two more now.  :Smile:

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## thePractce

Cool, this is the first time I've seen a black tetra thank you for posting the pic

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## apistomaster

If you provide a mass of Java Moss or other fine leaved plants, don't have other more predatory fish and feed live brine shrimp daily you may expect finding more. What happens as you begin to have an assortment of small to adult Black Neon Tetras, the survival rates among the newest fry improves. The smaller fish blend into the group better. It isn't the most efficient method of breeding Black Neons or any other Tetra but colony breeding can be successful if you only want 4 dozen or so.
I remember the first time I tried to breed them it was after I tried to spawn Glow Light Tetras but I didn't think they spawned so I tried a pair of Black Neons. Within a few weeks it was obvious both had spawned so I had fry from each. Since then I have raised many hundreds of Black Neons. They are a favorite of mine for planted tanks but they look best when you keep them in larger schools. So I have often bought a trio then bred them to get myself a large school very cheaply. Black Neons are a pretty good species for the beginner Tetra breeder to try.

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## Gggold

First time seeing a black tetra too. Cheers

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## apistomaster

> First time seeing a black tetra too. Cheers


 Surely you meant Black neons as black Tetras are very different.
I raise a few hundred every 5 years or so. mainly for when i want a mass display rather than buying them retail. The black neon is pretty easily bred and raised. You just need fairly soft and slightly acid water but not extremely so. A trio can easily produce 200 fry. They can even take newly hatched brine shrimp at first. Many other Tetras need infusoria at first.

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## Gggold

Thats cool. Thx again for the info

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## 于诗然

well done. the littlefish is so lovely

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## llhan

Congrat!!. nice pic!1

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## daguldfisher

cool, this is very nice. my black neons already almost end-of-life. dying one by one of old age. with me for 2.5 years and got them when they are already almost adult but up to now cannot find a single fry from them. now my tank infested with guppies. congrats bro!

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## apistomaster

Black Neon Tetra can live to at least five years; that is my best over the years I have been breeding them.

I was surprised by my 84 year old mother. Her group of Hyphessobrycon colombianus have been spawning in a 30 gal tank with only some plastic plants but five fry some how made it to a size where they now school with the adults. It is always a pleasure when these things happen without any prior planning.

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## sianxz

Black neon tetras are quite cheap. They go at about 50 pieces for between $6 to $8. IMO, the effort of purposely trying to spawn a pair would not be cost effective. Nonetheless, its really nice to see them spawn in a community with some fry surviving and making it to adulthood  :Very Happy:

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## apistomaster

> Black neon tetras are quite cheap. They go at about 50 pieces for between $6 to $8. IMO, the effort of purposely trying to spawn a pair would not be cost effective. Nonetheless, its really nice to see them spawn in a community with some fry surviving and making it to adulthood


Actually, whenever I want a large school of any of the more common Tetras I often just start with a reverse trio and sometimes get hundreds from one spawn and in most cases they are large enough for a display in only 4 months. It isn't hard to breed many tetras and the cost of raising them is like 20% of their retail price.
I made large displays this way of Black Phantoms, Black Neons and Ember Tetras(Hyphessobrycon amandae).
Most of thest retail for US$3.00 each and there is no way I would spend US$150 for 50 pieces.

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## sianxz

Wow !! They sure cost quite alot at your place ~ If only i can send some over to you, it would only cost a fraction of what you need to pay for the same amount of fishes ~

I ever thought of breeding them as i have never bred tetras before. It seems difficult to me. Do you think you can explain step by step on how to breed them ? I guess the hardest part would probably be to sex them. As male and female looks similar 

I was thinking of setting up a 1 ft tank to breed them but dont know how or where to start from ~

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## apistomaster

> Wow !! They sure cost quite alot at your place ~ If only i can send some over to you, it would only cost a fraction of what you need to pay for the same amount of fishes ~
> 
> I ever thought of breeding them as i have never bred tetras before. It seems difficult to me. Do you think you can explain step by step on how to breed them ? I guess the hardest part would probably be to sex them. As male and female looks similar 
> 
> I was thinking of setting up a 1 ft tank to breed them but dont know how or where to start from ~


It is true that the easily bred Tetras are expensive n the USA compared to SE Asia where most of them are bred in farms for export which explains why they are cheaper for you.
I do it for the fun every few years and not to sell.
Breeding these Tetras is a well known procedure found in any good reference fish book. Basically one needs a small tank(I use a 12 liter tank) with the bottom covered with an egg mesh so the eggs don't get eaten and some floating and sunken acrylic yarn mops. Soft acid water.
Separate the sexes for about a week and feed them live foods then introduce them to the breeding tank in the evening and they nearly always spawn at dawn lasting two or three hours. Remove the breeders immediately after they complete spawning. Most species hatch in about 36 hours and begin feeding five days later. Then feed the fry infusoria or vinegar worms a few day until they are able to take newly hatched brine shrimp. They grow fast after that and you have fish large enough to put in a display tank in about 4 months. Most Tetras are bred this way but there are many species which are much harder to breed like Cardinals, Rummy nose and Loreto tetras.

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## sianxz

Sorry.. But

1) What exactly is an egg mesh ? ( Would be good if you can direct me to link with pictures >_< )
2) What is Acrylic Yarn Mops ?? 
3) How to differentiate the genders ? Just look at fatter and slimmer pieces ??
4) What is the reason for separating them for 1 week ? Can i just put 2 piece together from my community tank ?

Thanks for the advice in advance !!

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## apistomaster

1. Many methods may be used but the one I use is to cut a piece of "egg crate" fluorescent light diffuser to fit the entire bottom. Then I use super glue to attach a piece of nylon fly screen. The purpose is to let the eggs fall through to the bottom so they can't eat their eggs.
2. Acrylic yarn is available at any fabric store. It is used as a substitute for fine leaved plants. This yarn is non-toxic, is easy to sterilize and provides the fish with places to lay their eggs. They are all egg scatterers. You just make your own. If you want them to float you use a cork. The Killiefish breeders have been using these for more than 50 years as do many other fish breeders. Wool yarn would decay.
3. Sexing Tetras varies with the species so a good reference book like Hans Baensch's Aquarium Atlas Vol one describes all the ways to sex Tetras. As a rule, males are slightly smaller and skinnier. Females are larger and bulge because of their ovaries.
4. Tetras often spawn frequently when they are kept together. One separates the sexes to allow the females to accumulate a lot of ripe eggs which helps make them produce much larger spawns than if you just grabbed a pair or reverse trio from a community tank. Females full of ripe eggs are more dependable producers of eggs when they are set up to spawn. In the case of the males it makes them ready to spawn at their first opportunity when they have been deprived of that opportunity for about a week. It is a very old fish breeding tactic.

These are all steps breeders take to increase the yields of a spawning set ups in a more predictable manner. Commercial breeders use basically the same set ups although they often use larger set ups and many of them so they can produce tens of thousands of fry at a time. It is easier to feed the the fish when all the fry are the same age and state of development.

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## sianxz

Apistomaster, Do you think it is possible for you to take a picture of your set up ? Or if its too troublesome, just the "egg crate" will do ~

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## 12end

Haha, thanks for sharing this pic with us. It is the first time im seeing a black neon tetra too.

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## squawkbox

Interesting pictures, thank you for sharing.

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## tetrafreak

reviving this thread.

I am attempting a black neon mass spawning.

Got some 36 black neons from bro sianz and about 4 from my own tank, mix of young and mature adults.

picked about 16 of the fattest, presumably female and put them in a 1 feet tank with moss and marbles. water acidified (and tanin-stained) with ketapang leaf.

the rest of the tetras are kept in the 2 ft tank, under similar condition.

feeding regime for the next 1-2 weeks

bloodworms everyday + pellet feed everyday + egg yolk every 5 days 

.........................will uodate as things progress.............................

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## apistomaster

You will produce more fry from fewer fish by using the bottom egg grid and spawning mop method using two reverse trios. The fish which are not spawning will just stand by ready to eat the eggs and it's hard enough to reduce this problem among the fish actually spawning.
Segregate the sexes for about five to seven days before bringing them together in the breeding tank. You should only have no more than 15 cm of water above the grid. Tetras eat eggs almost as fast as they release them so using shallow water gives the eggs less time to be eaten before falling through the bottom grid or get lost among the strands of the spawning mops. Otherwise, Black Neons are a recommendable beginning Tetra breeding project subject.
Each trio is easily capable of producing 150 fry. If you want to raise them in thousands at a time then set up multiple breeding tanks set up as I have described.

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## tetrafreak

ok, some changes after apistomaster's kind advice

Instead of a mass orgy, I will go with 2 reverse trios (4 males and 2 females).
I will use hornwort and hydrilla in place of spawning mop 
Some kind of mesh for eggs to fall through instead of the marbles. (what exactly is the egg crate mesh thing you mentioned earlier; can't see the pic)

still fattening them on daily combo of pellet + blood worms. 
Interesting observation : black neons in my community tank grab the bloodworms; they seemed encouraged by the other fishes. But the black neons in my species-specific breeding tanks seem a lot more reticent.

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## apistomaster

You must build your own egg grates.
I make mine out from a 2 X 4 feet sections of fluorescent light diffuser grating. All hardware stores sell this as replacements. Cut with a jig saw, band saw or a Dremel saw attachment as these plastic grates are fragile. Cut size to cover the whole bottom of the tank. It comes in white, bronze and black. I buy black or spray paint white with black Krylon Acrylic spray paint. The acrylic spray paint is perfectly safe after it has dried and been soaked over night in a pan of water. After you have cut the piece that covers the whole bottom of the tank then you glue on a piece of nylon insect screening used in windows and doors. I use dabs of super glue to attach the mesh to the grate. Glue an over sized piece of the fly screen , then glue in place. This allows you to trim the screen to such a perfect fit that there is no way a breeder can get trapped underneath the grating. The grates are usually about 1 cm thick. The grates made this way are dark and help the fish feel more secure and separated from their newly laid eggs until you remove the breeders. Remove the grate after removing the fish. The eggs all fall to the bottom or are within the spawning mops. All experienced Tetra breeders avoid plants and the marble method is so yesterday. Black Neon breeders can get stuck in the layers of marble and die.
I do not use live plants because I don't want any snails and I add methylene blue or acriflavine immediately after spawning. Also Tetra eggs are sensitive to light and are best left un-lighted or a very small light in dark rooms. Plants die in the darkened breeding set ups. These anti-fungus chemicals kill live plants. l use acrylic yarn mops which are easily disinfected with bleach, then rinse well and a final rinse in a little water with a lot of dechor.

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## tetrafreak

improvising by using this artificial tuft (daiso sgd$2) as a breeding map. think some lsf sells this too.
nicely into my cube tank.

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## tetrafreak

> You must build your own egg grates.
> I make mine out from a 2 X 4 feet sections of fluorescent light diffuser grating. All hardware stores sell this as replacements. Cut with a jig saw, band saw or a Dremel saw attachment as these plastic grates are fragile. Cut size to cover the whole bottom of the tank. It comes in white, bronze and black. I buy black or spray paint white with black Krylon Acrylic spray paint. The acrylic spray paint is perfectly safe after it has dried and been soaked over night in a pan of water. After you have cut the piece that covers the whole bottom of the tank then you glue on a piece of nylon insect screening used in windows and doors. I use dabs of super glue to attach the mesh to the grate. Glue an over sized piece of the fly screen , then glue in place. This allows you to trim the screen to such a perfect fit that there is no way a breeder can get trapped underneath the grating. The grates are usually about 1 cm thick. The grates made this way are dark and help the fish feel more secure and separated from their newly laid eggs until you remove the breeders. Remove the grate after removing the fish. The eggs all fall to the bottom or are within the spawning mops. All experienced Tetra breeders avoid plants and the marble method is so yesterday. Black Neon breeders can get stuck in the layers of marble and die.
> I do not use live plants because I don't want any snails and I add methylene blue or acriflavine immediately after spawning. Also Tetra eggs are sensitive to light and are best left un-lighted or a very small light in dark rooms. Plants die in the darkened breeding set ups. These anti-fungus chemicals kill live plants. l use acrylic yarn mops which are easily disinfected with bleach, then rinse well and a final rinse in a little water with a lot of dechor.


thks for the detailed instruction and explaining the use of each material. It's all in the details!

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## gadget818

I thought their eggs very sensitive with light?

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## apistomaster

> I thought their eggs very sensitive with light?


That is true of most Tetra eggs. They normally begin to spawn in the early dawn.
Their eggs hatch as undeveloped larvae and after that it is still best to dimly light their tank until they metamorphose into the basic Tetra shape.

BTW, That artificial grass mat is a good way to protect the eggs.

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