# Planted Tanks > Vivariums >  My first vivarium

## Cardinal Tetra

Hi guys,
I'm new to the vivarium / plaudarium scene, and I'm planning to setup a 3ft vivarium (with waterfall) housing a couple of feeder frogs.
Right now I'm still deciding if I should go for a plaudarium or vivarium setup, as I have a few questions that need advice:

1: I've read somewhere that using false bottom with eggcrates is not recommended. Why is this so?
2: Can spray foam be used to act as a partition between water and dry land?
3. Is misting necessary? Can I just make do with manual misting twice a day?
4. What temp must I maintain the water?
5. I bought a large packet of 'burnt soil' from Giant. Can I use this as substrate for the dry land?

Thanks.

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## Cardinal Tetra

20150730_192314.jpg

Here is a nano vivarium setup that I've done few days back.
Sort of like a test run before I go full scale. I plan to house 2-3 vampire crabs.
Any comments and feedback are welcomed. Bare with me as it's my first vivarium attempt.

The background I've used for this setup is the underside of a mousepad, which I've superglued to the back.
There is also a water embankment at the left side of the tank. Just realised that I made the mistake of waterlogging the substrate. There's no fauna in the tank yet, as I can't seem to find vampire crabs at C328.

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## gorilla83

Hi Cardinal Tetra,

Not sure why false bottom with egg crates are not recommended... guess it just depends on how the vivarium is designed.

Yes, spray foam definitely can be used, you can try googling, there are many nice vivariums made with spray foam.

Depends on what kind of plants you are growing, misting may/may not be necessary. But manual misting is fine I think.

In future you can even add a humidifier and pipe the outlet into your tank, and put it on a timer so that it is automatic.

Also, if your vivarium is enclosed, you definitely need to add ventilation fans because it heats up very fast under the lights. If it is open concept, then no issue.

I think the water will be quite cool if you are making a waterfall, due to the evaporation.

The soil again depends on what plants you are growing. But I think one important thing to note is do not allow the substrate to be water-logged, which is what happened to my tank. So the choices of plants I can grow are very limited.

I think if you just want to keep frogs or vampire crabs, with no fishes, a vivarium is a better choice than a paludarium, as it is much easier to maintain. It is like a making a small garden in a tank.

Maybe you can google images of vivarium/paludarium to have more ideas.

Just some suggestions... look forward to see you tank setup  :Wink:

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## Cardinal Tetra

Hi gorilla83, thanks for the reply. Your tank has gave me lots of inspiration and ideas for my upcoming setup.
I'm thinking of creating a 'pond' in the center of the tank instead of the usual 50/50 setup. I plan to use spray foam to create a reservoir for the water and act as a partition to divide the water and dry land. I'm not sure if the foam is able to do that.
Meantime, I will continue to update my nano vivarium (which is setup in the office). If anyone knows where I can find vampire crabs please let me know.
Cheers.

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## Cardinal Tetra

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The plants survived the weekend. Here are some pictures I took today. The lights is a little purplish due to the leds. Will be adding vampire crabs next week after the long weekend.

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## Cardinal Tetra

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Couldn't resist and bought 2 vampire crabs during lunchtime.
will update with more pics later.

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## TheAquarist

Swee! Got try to identify gender anot?

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## TheAquarist

Btw you might want to create a leaf litter for even more hiding space and they can graze on decaying ones too.

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Btw you might want to create a leaf litter for even more hiding space and they can graze on decaying ones too.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I'm not sure how to check the gender as I'm afraid of hurting them. I'm having trouble finding them as they disappeared once I placed them in the tank. Thanks for the advice on leaf litter. Will put some dead leaves tomorrow.

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## TheAquarist

Same as normal crabs, the carapace, narrow ones are male, wide carapaces are females  :Smile: 

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## Cardinal Tetra

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Found one casualty this morning. No idea why...

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## Cardinal Tetra

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Updates on my vivarium. Having lost one crab, the other seemed fine for the next week. So I bought another 3 more.
Heres a pic of one of the crabs.

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## Cardinal Tetra

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Top down pic. How many crabs can you spot?

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## TheAquarist

2? How are they doing?

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## Cardinal Tetra

> 2? How are they doing?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


There are 3 crabs in the picture if I remember correctly. One of them quite hard to locate in the picture.
I had half neglected the tank, only adding food and topping of water daily. I can't even find the crabs due to the dense forage and black sand (newbie mistake) but I know they are there as the food gets scattered overnight.

I've setup another tank last week which has not that many hiding spots so I am able to see and locate the crabs easily.
This new tank is currently occupied with 2 red vampire crabs. I will eventually transfer the 2 crabs from the old setup into this tank when ready.

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## TheAquarist

Share the setup maybe? I am probably setting one too and the end of the year, simple one with easy plants and leaf litter.

Maybe if they breed, i can get them from you  :Wink: 

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Share the setup maybe? I am probably setting one too and the end of the year, simple one with easy plants and leaf litter.
> 
> Maybe if they breed, i can get them from you 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Believe me, I just spent the last 10 mins trying to upload the pictures but the site kept saying the picture exceeds the size even though its less than 500kb.  :Exasperated:  :Boo:

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## Cardinal Tetra

This site is full of bugs.. making it hard to post pictures. I even have to post links from images within its own site.
Anyway, enough ranting.

This is my newly setup vampire tank, inspired by Jervis and his crab dungeon. View his vampire tank here.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...hlight=vampire



Vampire crab foraging in the grassland


I really like this picture, the vampire hiding amongst the darkness, spying on me like a pontianak.

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## TheAquarist

Wouldnt this setup leave molting vampires vunerable?

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Wouldnt this setup leave molting vampires vunerable?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


No issues on molting for now as there are only 2 crabs with plenty of space for both. In fact, each of them had already lost a leg before I bought them and I'm waiting for them to molt before I transfer the other 2 crabs. Will definitely create more hiding spots then.

I'm looking for pictures of vampire crabs in their wild habitat, and would like to mimic my setup to suit theirs. Anyone with info and pics, do share!

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## benjamin216

I dont think the HC will survive tbh.

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## Cardinal Tetra

> I dont think the HC will survive tbh.


You are right, I noticed that the parts submerged in water have started to rot and turn brown.
Care to share what is the cause? Could it be that there is insufficient CO2 in the water?

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## TheAquarist

Are your hc originally emersed or submerged? The hc melting in water may be due to adapting to submerged form . Just need some time to adapt

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Are your hc originally emersed or submerged? The hc melting in water may be due to adapting to submerged form . Just need some time to adapt
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I bought the HC from C328 and it was emersed.

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## TheAquarist

Emersed, so wait for it to be adapted to water ☺

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Emersed, so wait for it to be adapted to water ☺
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Should I cut away the rotting parts that are submerged? I'm afraid it may foul up the water.
Will the HC grow back over the rotten parts?

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## benjamin216

I'm no expert, but if the stem is rotting from the roots, I don't think it can be saved. I think has to do with the lack of nutrients in the substrate.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Been a while since I updated. Reason was due to a restriction on the max file attachment size, which means I can't attach any more pics.
I had left the tank alone for the past few months as I thought the sole vampire crab left inside had died. Only thing I did was topping up of water every now and then.
It was until last week when I tried to decom the tank that I realized about 10+ baby vampire crabs hiding amongst the dense flora. 

I would'nt had seen them if not for one baby that moved.
Upon further inspection I found the mother crab alive under a piece of wood that it had burrowed itself in. I will be leaving the tank as it is for now.

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## Fujisasuke

what are you feeding the crabs?

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## Cardinal Tetra

> what are you feeding the crabs?


I did not feed the crabs as I thought the remaining mother crab had died.
I left the tank alone for months and only topped up water. I suppose the crabs fed on decaying matter. I'm just as surprised that it managed to last so long.

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## kennethc

> I did not feed the crabs as I thought the remaining mother crab had died.
> I left the tank alone for months and only topped up water. I suppose the crabs fed on decaying matter. I'm just as surprised that it managed to last so long.


You could get them to continue eating by providing hikari crab cuisine. My fiddler crabs love it.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Managed to capture a picture of my 2 male vampire crabs fighting.
Unfortunately, the purple one didn't make it after the furious battle.  :Sad:

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## Cardinal Tetra

The winner giving a triumphant look.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Current look of my mini office vivarium, housing only one lone vampire crab.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Used to keep a couple of frogs too until they got too big and had to be released.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Favourite frog that escaped during CNY weekend and dried up.  :Sad:

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## Cardinal Tetra

Morning update. Here's a pic of the 1ft setup housing the mother crab with its babies.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Shot of one of the babies. Try to spot it if you can.

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## Cardinal Tetra

For all you vampire crab lovers, here's 2 rare videos of vampire crabs in the wild. Hope this will give you a good idea of their natural environment and requirements.

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## Cardinal Tetra



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## Cardinal Tetra

Some morning updates.
Bought 3 trophy female vampire crabs for the male, as well as added moss to cover the substrate to further simulate its natural habitat (after watching the videos).

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## Cardinal Tetra

Top down shot.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Angry male staring at me showing who's boss.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Meek females enjoying themselves amongst the flora.



Will continue updating this thread, hopefully I can get them to breed.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Some good news to share.
Found baby crabs in the tank! If I'm correct, it should be a hybrid of red male and purple female species.
Still not sure if I want to seperate the babies from the adults as I read about the parents feeding on their offspring.

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## Junneh

Hello tetra. Any updates on ur crabs? I have just started keeping vamps myself. I cant seem to find most of my crabs now in the 1.5ft tank.

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Hello tetra. Any updates on ur crabs? I have just started keeping vamps myself. I cant seem to find most of my crabs now in the 1.5ft tank.


Hi, thanks for asking. Thought no one was interested in this thread at all. Why dont you share some pics of your setup as well? Also provide some info like how many crabs, males and females etc. 
My crabs are always active even during the day. Heres one of them attempting a spiderman tint!


I dont do anything but dump in food like dried bloodworms and hikari crab cruisine daily. Other than that I just leave them alone.

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## Junneh

Hello mate. Yeah, crabs are pretty interesting in my opinion. Don't understand why they aren't popular with hobbyists though. I have a total of 7 vampire crabs in my 1.5ft tank. 4 juveniles (2 males 2 females) & 3 adults (2 females & 1 gender unknown). I feed them solely Hikari Crab Crusine and change water every 2-3 days. I'm not too sure whether I'm doing everything right though. My sand's water absorbent so there are puddles of water, apart from the crater i made.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Hey there great setup! These crabs were popular back in 2010-2012 so the interest may have died off locally.
Do your males fight? For your tank size I would stick to 2 or 3 males max. My dominant male always kills any new male crab that I add in. So I only add in females.

As for the substrate, your sand is more for mangrove/fiddler crab setup but it will do fine. Maybe you can create a larger pool of water for them to have more space for molting. 

Also, you can give them some variety in their diet so they wont get sick of the same food. Your setup seems fine so just leave them alone and they will eventually breed. Feel free to ask any qns or post more pics here and I will try to answer them best to my knowledge and experience keeping them.

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## Junneh

The juveniles are fairly peaceful...however I'm noticing some hostility between the adults. No missing limbs or casualties as of now. I'm unable to identify one of the adults, due to bad eyes? Haha. I can't tell its gender despite looking underneath it. I'm actually thinking of setting up a 2nd tank this around, housing only purple vampire crabs. I see that u have successfully bred them. Can u shed some light to encourage mating and where did u get ur vamp crabs from?

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## Cardinal Tetra

From my experience (due to small tank size), the male adults will fight with each other whenever there is a chance, while the females will get chased all the time by the dominant male.

What I did was ensure there are enough hiding places with plants for them to hide to limit them from seeing each other. As long as the crabs are healthy and feeding its just a matter of time that they will breed. Patience is the key and its not adviseable to disturb them too much. Just leave them be on their own. Feeding them different kinds of food will also help.

I usually get my crabs from c328 or seaview. C328 crabs are 50/50 survival rate due to stress maybe, being in a bucket with others. The ones I got from seaview were more seemed healthier.

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## Junneh

My intended 2nd tank is probably 1ft or smaller.. i believe thats gonna cause more issues right? Cannibalism and hostility. Currently, the 1 adult i bought from C328 is extremely aggressive. My 4 juveniles are still no where to be seen. The remaining 2 adults i got from seaview kinda took over the juvs' hiding spots. I leave 4-5 pellets on the driftwood nightly and all disappeared the next morning. Not too sure if they are eaten or dumped somewhere in the tank.

Patience is a virtue they say. I hope i dont have to wait years for them to mate.. another issue is i dont know if i have a mature male in the tank.. dammit ><

Vampy stock at seaview is often sold out or left with a handful whenever I pay a visit during the weekends. Couldnt find any males there too. C328 has plenty but the crowd makes it difficult to check the crabs at my own pace. 

Do u have any low requirement plants to recommend? My current plants arent faring too well. Rotting leaves etc. My emersed HC kinda died out recently.

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## Cardinal Tetra

For plants I will go for money plants, easy to care for and needs very low light. I usually cut a few stalks from around the neighbourhood to use for the tank, some die off, others thrive. You may also get some java moss and spread it out over the substrate as ground cover.
A check today shows no sign of the babies. I suspect they may have got eaten up by the adults and my 3 froglets in the tank.

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## Junneh

Hmm.. roger that! Darn. I just gave away all my moss not too long ago. Lol. Frogs? U keep them with vamps? Wouldnt they attack each other? Hopefully the baby vamps are alive. They are too precious to lose. Haha. Hopefully my new setup wouldnt cost too much. Intending to reuse as much as possible.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Thats right no sign of the babies at all. Lost them all over the weekend. You can keep frogs with crabs but beware that when they grow bigger the frog will eat the adult crabs.
Will post some pics tomorrow if you'd like. 
To setup and maintain a vivarium is cheaper than keeping a planted tank. All you have to do is top up water once every few days. I dont even change my tank water at all. For deco you can get cork bark, fallen branches, leaf litter, stem cuttings or moss from the local flora for free. All you need is a tank, substrate and a cheap lightset will do.

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## Junneh

A vivarium huh... it sounds too much work to set it up. Saw some videos online and it doesnt seem cheap to get all the necessary equipments and decorations. Haha.

Local flora? U mean those from the public? To my knowledge, i know that not all plants are suitable for aquatic invertebrates due to the sap from plants. Would be interesting to setup a self sustaining eco system though. However, will that be doable for a normal plastic container for food instead?

Yes, please guide me through a simple setup and some pictures if u may. Sorry for the trouble though

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## Cardinal Tetra

> A vivarium huh... it sounds too much work to set it up. Saw some videos online and it doesnt seem cheap to get all the necessary equipments and decorations. Haha.
> 
> Local flora? U mean those from the public? To my knowledge, i know that not all plants are suitable for aquatic invertebrates due to the sap from plants. Would be interesting to setup a self sustaining eco system though. However, will that be doable for a normal plastic container for food instead?
> 
> Yes, please guide me through a simple setup and some pictures if u may. Sorry for the trouble though


You may not know it but your tank is already a vivarium. If you take out all the fancy misting systems, water features etc, you don't even require any equipment except the lights like what your current setup is like. I wouldn't worry about plant saps. Just wash the stem cuttings thoroughly will do.

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## Junneh

Ahh.. understood.. I probably have to find those cheap tanks or perhaps just a huge plastic toyogo container to house the new crabs... Its gonna be more for breeding instead of admiring the crabs.. Any suggestions where I can find cheap tanks? Also, is "lapis sand" recommended for vampire crabs? Its sand is mixed so the substrate tends to look really messy/complicated. If I don't change the water, wouldn't the TDS only surge up? Also, considering the ammonia and nitrite build up due to the waste and leftover food.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Lapis sand will do fine as substrate. As for the water, I wouldn't worry much about it as long as you have suficient plants that will consume the ammonia/nitrites/waste. 

I believe that in their natural habitat, they do not have pristine water like our tap conditions so they will do fine in aged and seasoned water. However it all depends on your setup and if you find that the water is murky or dirty then it would be best to perform a water change.

So far for all my setups I dont see a need to do water changes as my water still looks relatively clean. Having springtails and isopods also help to clear up leftover waste and mould/fungus. The crabs are scavengers, they eat whatever food scraps lying about, so going a little messy is all part of their natural habitat.

Some good news to share, saw a couple of the babies coming out from under the driftwood. I'm assuming they are all cleverly hiding and able to take good care of themselves.

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## Junneh

Hmm.. Thus, the reason to add more plants into the scape.. Im actually intending to put my new tank near the window for natural sunlight...saves my electricity bills.. is it possible to to use "Dwarf Hair Grass" to scape the land? I was told its suitable for beginners due to its low requirements. If so, how do I ensure the hair grass survival and propagate it? I have tried several times to carpet the land but most ended in tragedy. 

As of now, Im still unable to find any juvenile crabs. My adult crabs are always hiding still. I hardly noticr any movement in the tank apart from the missing pellets i left for a day or two. I hope this doesny mean that my crabs arent adapting new to the new environment. At night, the adults are often seen hiding in the plants or under the driftwood. Likewise, no movements from them either apart from moving away slowly when I shine the torchlight at them. Lol

Good to know ur juveniles are still alive. I hope they thrive well and produce more babies snf the generations to come. Haha. Hope my new breeding community works well for me. Im a tad nervous because the crabs at C328 aint faring too well when I lasted visited.

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## Cardinal Tetra

You can use any plants you like as long as it can adapt and thrive in your setup. That's the fun part about having a vivarium. Making it too neat and organized will make your setup look unrealistic and 'manmade'. Natural sunlight is good and you don't have to worry about algae unlike planted tanks because the algae will add on to making your setup more naturalistic.

Missing pellets are a sign that the crabs are eating. The best way to breed them is to leave them alone apart from feeding daily and ensuring that they have a constant body of water to molt. Don't worry if they are hiding. I have another lone female crab in my 1ft tank that loves to burrow into the substrate and I've not seen her for a few months now.

What crabs do you have? Are they all red devils or do you have a mix of species?

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## Junneh

Hmm.. the ones I have are red devils. Well, some might not have achieved their full colors yet because body is still brownish but all claws are red. 

Algae... I have no idea how to grow them but hopefully it does start blooming on its own. Also, I noticed that there's white fungi starting to grow on my driftwood. Looks like white hairy fur if I remembered correctly. Should I be concerned about it?

Im gonna shop this sat/sun at C328 again. Hope to get some cheap plants there in their submersed form. Also, males seem to be scarce at lfs now. Paid a visit to several lfs and no males spotted. Hopefully I have more luck this weekend. My main concern the plant being unable to adapt to my substrate.. my current ones are wiethering off.. somehow

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## Cardinal Tetra

I would advice that you get plants that are emersed if you do not plan to place them in water. Any mould/fungi growth helps to make it more natural so I wouldn't worry. Adding springtails and isopods will help to consume these though.

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## Junneh

Ahh... alright.. still, im not sure why my plants are dying.. perhaps because i stuffed the roots into the substrate? Sorry, the plants I bought are emersed form. I shall let the fungus stay on the wood then. Dont wanna meddle with the tank too much. Just hope the crabs will actually come out of hiding though :/

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## Cardinal Tetra

Some pics of my setup. Marshy wetland.

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## Cardinal Tetra

The water area.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Frog with crab in the background.

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## Junneh

Cardinal, ur crabs dont seem shy at all. Did u take the pics during the day? I havent seen mine ever since i had a driftwood. Some holes here and there.. they probaby hid in it all day.. also, it is normal if there are leftover pellets overnight? Should I remove the pellets and replace them with new ones during feeding time?

Im probably setting up my next tank tomorrow...im pumped.. i want my male crabs!!!

PS: ur tank looks simple and neat! Mine's just messy and barren. Lol

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Cardinal, ur crabs dont seem shy at all. Did u take the pics during the day? I havent seen mine ever since i had a driftwood. Some holes here and there.. they probaby hid in it all day.. also, it is normal if there are leftover pellets overnight? Should I remove the pellets and replace them with new ones during feeding time?
> 
> Im probably setting up my next tank tomorrow...im pumped.. i want my male crabs!!!
> 
> PS: ur tank looks simple and neat! Mine's just messy and barren. Lol


Yes I took the pics daytime when the lights are on. Its normal to hide, I think it depends on the personality of each individual crab. Some like to climb, some like to soak in the water, some like to roam about, some like to hide.
I usually leave leftover food in the tank to let it rot for my springtails to eat. I can pass you a culture if you want. My tank is nowhere neat, really. I recommend using money plants for they give good shade for the crabs and provide places to hide. Many times I saw my crabs hiding between the layer of shaded leaves. Please update your setup when its done tomorrow!

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## fireblade

nice updates on the crabs...
makes my hands itchy too!

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## Cardinal Tetra

> nice updates on the crabs...
> makes my hands itchy too!


Haha let's start the trend again!

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## fireblade

no space for another tank lay

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## Junneh

> Yes I took the pics daytime when the lights are on. Its normal to hide, I think it depends on the personality of each individual crab. Some like to climb, some like to soak in the water, some like to roam about, some like to hide.
> I usually leave leftover food in the tank to let it rot for my springtails to eat. I can pass you a culture if you want. My tank is nowhere neat, really. I recommend using money plants for they give good shade for the crabs and provide places to hide. Many times I saw my crabs hiding between the layer of shaded leaves. Please update your setup when its done tomorrow!


Wish I had picked out the more daring crabs instead.. Its boring staring at a tank without crabs. Lol. Springtail culture? Those little critters? Im not too sure how to keep them alive, much less breed them. Wouldnt ur tank be infested with them if ur vamps arent eating them?

Sure, will update this post tmr. Its nothing special. Jist a really simple setup...on tight budget. Haha

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## Luc Tango

so hard to find crabs nowadays. just went seaview only left those big crabs. my girlfriend is making me travel there every week to hunt for vampire crabs.  :Sad:

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## Junneh

Hey Luc, u can head down to c328. I was there yesterday. There are vamps there but limited choices. Most have already been picked by others.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Hello Junneh, any updates on your new setup?

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## Junneh

Hey cardinal. I have only managed to setup a small holding tank for a pair of Red Devils. It's smaller than 1ft. Instead, I added some plants into my main tank. Noticed some signs of aggression, eg missing 1 leg on each crab. I might be heading to sv this weekend but it depends on my schedule.. Will upload more pics when I'm home. 

Oh, will purple vamps and Red Devils interbreed? Couldn't find any mating pairs...thus 2 PVC males and 3 red devil females in main tank

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## Cardinal Tetra

Missing legs are normal for fights between males, if your females are missing legs do observe them to see that they don't lose any more. A crab can lose max 2 legs on one side or else it can't stand and will get killed. I would separate those with 2 legs on one side to be safe, until they molt.
Too small of a tank will cause aggression that is inevitable. 
For your pair, as long as the male doesn't ravage the female, it should be ok. Chasing the female is also normal.

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## Junneh

I'm monitoring them closely.. Yeah I don't want any deaths in my tank :c . As of now, 3 adult females lost 1 leg each and 1 juvenile too. Added 2 plants on driftwood to provide more cover. 1 pvc seemed to have dominated that area. The rest remains unseen. My mating pair are somewhat inactive? They are sitting on the leaves on the java fern. I will try to make time to buy another tank to separate the remnants..

i guess it's safe to assume pvc and r.devil can interbreed? Lol

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## Cardinal Tetra

I'm not sure about the interbreeding, though my purple females have only been with the male for a few months.
Will have to wait for my babies to grow and show their colour to confirm this.

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## Junneh

Ahhh okay.. Well I do have mating pair of Red Devils in the small tank.. Ah well. Cross fingers none decides to kill the others.. Might shift the remaining Red Devils to other tank instead

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## Cardinal Tetra

As long as the crabs don't kill each other I think its alright. Hahaha I'm tempted to go buy more crabs now.
What colour crabs did you see at C328?

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## Junneh

Red Devils and purple vamps. Purples void of females. Reds void of males. I will snap pics after work later. The PVC I got are some what nicely colored. Claws are a deep shade of purple. One has a distinct yellow, the other a fading one on its carapace. I guess I really should head to sv this weekend.

ps: let's try to revive the interest in Geosesarma again..  :Very Happy:

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Red Devils and purple vamps. Purples void of females. Reds void of males. I will snap pics after work later. The PVC I got are some what nicely colored. Claws are a deep shade of purple. One has a distinct yellow, the other a fading one on its carapace. I guess I really should head to sv this weekend.
> 
> ps: let's try to revive the interest in Geosesarma again..


Post more pics of your setup to spread the poison.  :Grin:

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## Junneh

> Post more pics of your setup to spread the poison.


Mine tank isn't fancy.. I believe there are many gurus here with mind blowing setups... We just have to seek them out.. Haha. U should post pics of ur tank instead  :Wink:

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## Junneh

Update... just got home... devastating sight.. 1 dead red devil. 2 PVCs seem somewhat lethargic? All 3 crabs were bought 2 days ago, 21/5/2016 from C328. Older batch of vamps seem fine. Couple of molts from my juvenile crabs. Sigh, monday blues :c

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## Cardinal Tetra

Its normal to lose crabs after buying them. Usually if the crabs make it past the first week after purchase, then I know it is stable.

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## Junneh

Anything I can do to prevent more deaths? I don't wanna lose my 2 PVCs too. I doubt pvc and Red Devils can interbreed though.. Saw my female red devil chasing off my male pvc off the driftwood.. Lol. Or maybe the male is just hen pecked? xD

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## Cardinal Tetra

Females don't kill males unless he's chicken.
Just bought a red devil female and purple male today. I'm still thinking what I should do with them. 
If I were to put them in the same tank, I will have to catch the dominating male out and let the newbies just adjusted to the tank first.

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## Junneh

> Females don't kill males unless he's chicken.
> Just bought a red devil female and purple male today. I'm still thinking what I should do with them. 
> If I were to put them in the same tank, I will have to catch the dominating male out and let the newbies just adjusted to the tank first.


Hello Cardinal, I read up an old thread and realized purple vamps and red devils are actually different species. Thus they are unable to interbreed. Not sure how true that is.

Where did u get ur crabs from? Did u happen to see any female purple vamp or male red devils?

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Hello Cardinal, I read up an old thread and realized purple vamps and red devils are actually different species. Thus they are unable to interbreed. Not sure how true that is.
> 
> Where did u get ur crabs from? Did u happen to see any female purple vamp or male red devils?


Yes that's what I read too.
Bought the crabs from C328. All male purple ones left. Seaview no stock for vampire crabs.

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## Junneh

Thanks for the update! I asked the assistant at c328 florist for new shipment of vamps but he directed me to the auntie...but auntie no where to be seen..

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## Junneh

Just noticed some bugs in my vivarium..probably from the driftwood i added recently.. juveniles seem to be molting more frequently now.. adults are somewhat shy, still hiding within flora and driftwood.. 

Called up a couple of lfs but they have no idea when next shipment of Geosesarma will arrive.. dammit

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## Cardinal Tetra

What type of vampire crabs are you looking for? Will help you keep a lookout when I go LFS hopping.
I always see the common purple species. The red devils not too often. Have you seen the orange (cream coloured) species before? I saw a pair of them at C328, but they were bigger than the normal vampire crab size so I was not sure if they were true vampire crabs.

Here is a link to the picture
http://freshwateraquatics.co.uk/inde...color-357.html

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## Junneh

> What type of vampire crabs are you looking for? Will help you keep a lookout when I go LFS hopping.
> I always see the common purple species. The red devils not too often. Have you seen the orange (cream coloured) species before? I saw a pair of them at C328, but they were bigger than the normal vampire crab size so I was not sure if they were true vampire crabs.
> 
> Here is a link to the picture
> http://freshwateraquatics.co.uk/inde...color-357.html


Im looking for red devils male and purple vamps female. My red devils doesnt seem to be true breed either. 2 of The female red devils have a brownish carapace and dark reddish brown claws. 1 female red devil had bright red claws but orangish carspace on its top. My purple vamps have a yellow pattern on the top of its carapace. Not sure if thats the normal purp vamp u are referring to

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## Cardinal Tetra

Yes, the yellow pattern is the common purple I am referring to. There is another which is purple/black without the yellow which is also common.
I have seen the beige/cream/orange coloured ones before but I heard there was only 1 shipment that came in.
I'm thinking of setting up a special vampire crab breeding tub for breeding the more uncommon ones.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Heres a pic for you. My active dominant male always roams about during daytime.

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## Junneh

Thats really nice.. i will be in ur debt.. please update me if u do spot the vamps im looking for.. i have seen some rare variants from german hobbyists.. apparently crabs are highly prized in europe.. 

My purple male vamps are bigger than the rest but they seem to be always hiding in the flora or wood.. its the brownish females that comes out occasionally.. 

Yeah, it will be nice to get out hands on the rare variants.. count me in if u spot any!  :Very Happy:

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## Cardinal Tetra

Another pic of him. Starring at me angrily for making him a photoshoot model without consent!
PS: Excuse the foggy glass!

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## Cardinal Tetra

Good link on vampire crab variants and colour.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...vampire&page=3

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## Junneh

Thanks mate. But I dont see my females' color in the page.. will try to snap some pic later.. they are always in hiding.. hard to find them

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## Junneh

Some pics of my crabs... Couldnt snap any clearer pics because they are hiding well... The crab hiding near the driftwood is the one I have been mentioning earlier.. Its totally brownish with brownish/red claws.. Not sure if its a inferior red devil or another variant... If its not a red devil... I have 3 different variants in my tank..which isnt good news to me..

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## Cardinal Tetra

Its hard to tell the colour of the crab in the 3rd pic. Maybe you can take another pic of it when you have the chance. Different variants is ok I think as long as they are healthy.

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## Junneh

Well, the only issue I have now is aggression between different variants and the possibility of not interbreeding :c

Ps: tried to sneak up close but crabs always get away  :Evil:

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## Junneh

Quick update.. trying dsm for my mini fissidens on some lava rocks and driftwood.. not looking too good though.. some fissidens turned brown.. No further casualties yet. Most vamps have successfully molted. Monitoring my unmolted 2 purp vamps now. Most of my plants are dying, except for the java fern. Not sure if the plants are in submerged form. I managed to snap some clear pics of the female vamps i spoke of earlier in the thread. Will post the pics later at night. Ciao

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## Cardinal Tetra

Looking forward to seeing the pics tonight. Have you tried using money plants?
Went to seaview this morning but no vampires in stock.

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## Junneh

I believe all lfs get their vamps from the same supplier.. all out of stock..haha.. money plants? Definitely not. I think i must be doing something wrong...to cause the deaths of my plants. lol

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## Cardinal Tetra

Just take note that some picky vamps do feed on plants. I had them clean out a sheet of unknown moss overnight that I had dug.

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## Junneh

Yeah I noticed some vamps feeding on dying plants. I feed them hikari cruisine pellets on alternate days. Hadnt got time to upload the pics ytd.. will definitely do so tonight.. the vamp looks like a hybrid to me. After molting, the 1 claw was brownish red, the other slight purple.. lol

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## Junneh

*Part 1
*
Here's the pics of the vamps I took...any idea what species it is? Lol

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## Junneh

*Part 2 

*Some clearer pics of the 2 mystery vamps..

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## Cardinal Tetra

Thanks for sharing. Pic 1-5 seem like vamps still in juv stage so their colours may not be fully developed yet.

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## Luc Tango

i spoke with the staff at seaview two weekends ago, they said they have no idea when the next batch is coming in. finally got my hands on some from c328, all males though. but, girlfriend wants it. die die must buy if not face the nag queen.

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## Junneh

> i spoke with the staff at seaview two weekends ago, they said they have no idea when the next batch is coming in. finally got my hands on some from c328, all males though. but, girlfriend wants it. die die must buy if not face the nag queen.


C328 are u talking about the Geosesarma Dernnele? The purple one with yellow back? No females? Which lfs did u get it from? clementi florist?

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## Junneh

> Thanks for sharing. Pic 1-5 seem like vamps still in juv stage so their colours may not be fully developed yet.


I hope its still in its juv...but the size of it seems otherwise. Its much bigger than most of the vamps in my tank.. lol

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## Junneh

*Update on crab community...*

Reached home and found 1 dead female vamp from 1st batch...died after 1 mth in the tank...it seems it died after molting..

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## Luc Tango

yeah, the purple ones. its from the auntie shop, do not really remember the name but yeah, its the extremely 'messy' one.

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## Junneh

> yeah, the purple ones. its from the auntie shop, do not really remember the name but yeah, its the extremely 'messy' one.


Thanks mate. I wont be going down then.. any pics of ur tank?

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## Cardinal Tetra

Couple pics. Latest addition juv red devil female on top of leaf.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Eating together for the first time.
Excuse the foggy glass.

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## Junneh

Cardinal, u have 2 species in the same tank? Mine didnt go too well. Lol. Where did u get ur new red devil female?

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## Luc Tango

some lousy pics from my phone. 'non natural' stuff added in by my girlfriend. lol. the crabs are not in it yet, currently housing 5 CPOs and one unknown mini crab that i got from seaview

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## Luc Tango



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## Cardinal Tetra

Yes caught them eating together peacefully without a fight hence the pic. I bought my red devil female from c238.

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## Junneh

Wouldnt the cpo attack the vamp when molting in water? Lol

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## Junneh

Thats good for u. My red devil population suffered casualties. Missing limbs and claws, due to the purp vamps as told by my mom. 

I have a dedicated tank for red devils now but they seem to be stressed put by the moving. Hopefully they do adapt soon. Dont wanna see more casualties

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## Luc Tango

oh, by the way. qianhu also no stock. staff there also said dont know when will next batch arrive.

hmm, regarding cpo attacking the vamp during molting.. seriously no idea whether it will happen.

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## Cardinal Tetra

What is cpo?

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## Cardinal Tetra

Luc, very interesting setup you have there. Do update with more pics when you have added the vamps in.

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## Junneh

CPOs are mexican dwarf crayfish. Usually orange in color, small sized. Always sold at seaview, lowest rack of shrimp corner

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## Junneh

C328 clementi florist had a new shipment of purple vamps but most were gone when i visited last saturday. U might wanna be wary about the cpos... i once housed cpos and 50+ boraras together in a tank..bad end for the fishes. Lol

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## fireblade

Yesterday went 328 saw there are some vampire crab in the tub near the entrance...

Recently realised that CPO are quite naughty... they keep eyeing on my bristle nose babies... hope that they don't eye on my shrimps... and also they trying to destroy my foreground MC ... like grass cutter...

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## Cardinal Tetra

Planning of buying 10 vamps to put in my 2ft vivarium at home. Hmmmm tempting.  :Evil:

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## Junneh

Resist!!! My purple vamps are way too aggressive... 5 purps in a 1.5ft and limbs are thorn. Lol

Oh, and i got them from c328. Mortality rate is low  :Well done:

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## Junneh

Haha.. i have given away my cpos.. at one point one got berried.. im tempted to cr8 a pool for feeder shrimps in my vivarium.. currently looking into it.. hate the cyclinh part though

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## fireblade

reporting... lunch time go C328 still have this many left...

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## Junneh

Thanks! Looks like a fresh batch of c328. I went last sat. They had red claws mixed with vamps and a few casualtiws. Lol

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## Cardinal Tetra

Wah, fireblade thanks for the update! Save me a trip down. Looking for the bright purple or red claw males. The ones in the photo are all females.

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## Junneh

Quick update on my 2nd tank specifically for Geosesarma Red Devils.. simple scape for now but will make adjustments in the future...

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## Cardinal Tetra

Nice setup! Will you be covering the white sand with any moss?

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## Junneh

Im thinking of christmas moss as a scape but idk how long it will take for the moss to root itself into the sand.. another issue is the transition to emersed form

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## Cardinal Tetra

I think c328 sells the moss in emersed sheets. As long as they stay moist it should be fine.

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## Junneh

Im tempted to add a few small leafed anubias to the tank. Might head down to capricon this weekend for a look.. any suggestions for extremely low requirement plants?

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## Cardinal Tetra

Anubias will be good. But my anubias tend to die off or get chewed upon after awhile. You can also try to place some java moss in the water area.
In my experience money plants are the easiest. They are almost indestructible.

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## Junneh

Currently I have a big leafed anubias in my main tank but its dying out somehow.. edge of leaves turning yellow etc.. I have 2 other plants on driftwoods in my 2nd tank but have no idea what they are. Java ferns seem to do well..but it looks boring xD
Money plant is a succulent plant right?

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## Cardinal Tetra

Money plants are Epipremnum aureum. They have different species with different colours and shades of green and white.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Heres my current tank now mostly taken over by money plants. Whatever plant that didnt make it, was taken over by my money plants.



They are cheap, extremely easy, fast growers and dont require alot of light. Highly recommended for an easy vivarium setup. Actually for vivariums, we have the option to choose more terrestial plant types so dont just limit yourself to buying your plants from lfs.

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## Junneh

Ohh thanks for the info.. i think i do have that plant at home.. Its a creeping plant right? Im actually thinking of spraying liquid ferts now.. either flourish or bw lush..

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## Ingen

Are they escape artiste? I recently setup a 20 x 20 for my 2 tiny goby (can't have them in my shrimp/fish community tank, or in my macrostoma tank) with upper space being emersed set up but very close to the top of the glass.

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Are they escape artiste? I recently setup a 20 x 20 for my 2 tiny goby (can't have them in my shrimp/fish community tank, or in my macrostoma tank) with upper space being emersed set up but very close to the top of the glass.


Yes they are escape artistes. 
They will escape if you have plants that have grown near to the rim of the tank. By the way, when you mention upper space being emersed, is your tank setup a paludarium? They are not fully aquatic and need a 50/50 setup and dry land.

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## Junneh

Hello Cardinal. My tank's in a crisis. I had 3 females and 2 males in my purple tank.. 1 male killed a female & chasing the rest.. any idea how to reduce hostility? Suspect that male vamp is a homo =="

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## Junneh

Hello Cardinal. My tank's in a crisis. I had 3 females and 2 males in my purple tank.. 1 male killed a female & chasing the rest.. any idea how to reduce hostility? Suspect that male vamp is a homo =="

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## Cardinal Tetra

Take out and isolate the hostile male for a few days. Another option is to provide more hiding places but it not guranteed to stop the hostile male.

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## Ingen

> Yes they are escape artistes. 
> They will escape if you have plants that have grown near to the rim of the tank. By the way, when you mention upper space being emersed, is your tank setup a paludarium? They are not fully aquatic and need a 50/50 setup and dry land.


Sort of, it's a tiny tank to house my tiny gobies which can't go into the shrimp and tucano tetra tank as they will eat up the shrimplets, or into my betta macrostoma tank which they will be eaten up. The top is emersed false bottom filled with mosses, dried leaves and rocks (sounds huge but its really tiny space). Gotten a purple vampire (male) and hes cuddling up nice and cosy at one corner now. 

His first two days were spent in the water mostly, snatching my gobies frozen bloodworms and brine shrimps and dried pellets that were inside the water... I was considering to get a female but seeing how Juneh is experiencing the male killing off the female, I'm now quite hestitant as my space is quite small (20 x 15 maybe). How l often and how much do you feed one crab?

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## Junneh

I have been monitoring my crabs for missing legs and claws.. no issues as of now.. u probably need to add more hiding places and cross ur fingers. (20 x 15) probably holds max 2 crabs... My purp tank (45 x 30) has 2 huge males, 2 smaller females. Not much hiding spot other than a driftwood in the middle of the tank.

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## Ingen

I'm thinking of one female only. But then again maybe just have one lone crab. Btw, saw new shipment of crab at c328 yesterday, not vampire I think, it's small with red claws

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## Junneh

Small with red claws? I dont think its red claw crab... does it look like the purple vampire while disregarding its color? Im currently trying to promote mating while keeping my anubias alive. Im new to plants so its a huge headache for me. Maybe cardinal can shed some light on this..  :Smile:

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Sort of, it's a tiny tank to house my tiny gobies which can't go into the shrimp and tucano tetra tank as they will eat up the shrimplets, or into my betta macrostoma tank which they will be eaten up. The top is emersed false bottom filled with mosses, dried leaves and rocks (sounds huge but its really tiny space). Gotten a purple vampire (male) and hes cuddling up nice and cosy at one corner now. 
> 
> His first two days were spent in the water mostly, snatching my gobies frozen bloodworms and brine shrimps and dried pellets that were inside the water... I was considering to get a female but seeing how Juneh is experiencing the male killing off the female, I'm now quite hestitant as my space is quite small (20 x 15 maybe). How l often and how much do you feed one crab?


I think you should stick to just one crab. 20x15 is too small 2 crabs.
Feed the lone crab alternative days or whenever you see that it has finished all the food.

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Small with red claws? I dont think its red claw crab... does it look like the purple vampire while disregarding its color? Im currently trying to promote mating while keeping my anubias alive. Im new to plants so its a huge headache for me. Maybe cardinal can shed some light on this..


For anubias I just leave them on the piece of wood, their roots in the water. Other than that just leave them alone. Mine developed brown tips after a while. I now stick to money plants which are far easier to maintain.

2 days back one I had a security breach and of my vamps escaped. It almost got killed as my colleague thought it was a giant spider. So did one of my frogs which luckily I caught before it jumped away.
Time to step up on security and replace my plastic sheet cover with acrylic.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Bought these 2 at c328 today. Found out that they require brackish water. Will be placing them in my vivarium at home.

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## Junneh

How are ur crabs faring? Im struggling to keep my plants alive... that includes the all hardy mini fissidens.. lol

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## Cardinal Tetra

One of the fiddler crabs didnt make it pass the first night. The other seems to be lost in the dense forage and have not seen it since.
My vamp tank in the office is doing great. I only dump food in once every few days and leave them alone. Expecting a new batch of baby crabs soon.

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## Junneh

rip fiddler crab... seriously? another batch of new born? i havent seen any pregnant females as of now.. its depressing.. haha.. im gathering materials to redo the landscape for my purple tank..

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## Cardinal Tetra

Quick update. There has been a spade of escapades recently. I think the crabs managed to climb high enough from the growing plants.
I also noticed that they love to climb. Here's a pic of them climbing. I have lost count of how many I have in the tank.

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## Junneh

Sadly, i lost 2 pvc recently. 1 got killed while molting, another ended up in the balcony. Red devils growing steadily but no offsprings as of now

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## Cardinal Tetra

Small update, lost 1 purple vamp due to unknown reasons. I now have 5 crabs in the tank. Removed the frog as it ate all the babies. Managed to capture a pic of one vamp playing the flute (eating a grub)



Planning to setup a dedicated breeding tank with a breeding program and see how it goes. If anyone comes across red devil vamps please let me know. I can only find the normal purple ones.

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## fireblade

Frogs are carnivorous, you are lucky that they did not attack your adults...

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## Cardinal Tetra

Yeah, found out the hard way. One of my previous frog had grown big enough to eat one of my adult crab. I have since released it. This time round I removed the frog before it got big enough. Its now together with my 2 green tree frogs.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Guys, I need your help if you come across any LFS selling red devil vampire crabs. All LFS that I went to (c328, seaview, qian hu, rainbow) only had the purple bicolour were out of stock. 
Please let me know if you come across any. Looking for red devil variant only.

I will be starting a vampire breeding program in hopes to breed them. Will share more pics soon.
PS - Junneh, you still reading this thread?

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## Cardinal Tetra

Just want to share this lone survivng baby crab that I found in my tank. Decided to seperate in from the adults in case it got eaten. 
Placed it in a container with water and a place for it to surface and left it alone for the weekend. I was glad I covered it as I found it this morning doing this:



Never expected them to be able to climb that high. Just a note of caution for future breeders - always cover your tank for baby crabs.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Some pics on my new breeding project that I would like to share.
Simple, cheaper transparent tupperware.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Fill the container with horti-soil. Make a small dish out of those containers for jelly.

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## Cardinal Tetra

KTP leaf and some branches for climbing/hiding.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Managed to get my hands on 5 red devil vampire females. 
1 died on the way home in the bag so I was left with 4. Couple of them had 1 leg missing each. This setup will be used to 'condition' them up before I start the actual breeding.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Morning soak. Everything looking good with no causalities.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Small update. Came to office this morning with a pleasant surprise. One of my breeding containers had babies!



This is a test setup using water as substrate with money plants as land cover. The other breeding containers had soil substrate. Will continue to see if this triggers a faster breeding cycle. But most likely the female was already carrying eggs when it was moved into the setup.
I have since removed the adults to ensure the babies dont get eaten.

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## fireblade

Congrats! what will you be feeding the babies?

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## Cardinal Tetra

I am not too sure about their diet as most of the time I just leave any babies I have alone in the main tank. Since this is a specific setup for the babies I plan to feed them with mini pellet food and dried bloodworms as I read they consume the same food as adults.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Heres a picture of the setup using water as substrate.

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## Cardinal Tetra

A sad update on one of my male vampire crab. Found him on his back in one of my breeding setups. Upon closer inspection, there was a molted shell in the water. I'm presuming that he died after molting due to fatigue or stress related issues.

Heres a side by side position of the dead crab with molted shell. I hate losing lifestock due to reasons beyond my control.

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## TheAquarist

Hello! Any updates? 


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## Cardinal Tetra

> Hello! Any updates? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, currently the babies tank is doing fine, about 10+ babies made it to about 4mm carapace size. Will post pics next week.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Couple of pics as promised. The babies are doing fine and they have grown bigger. I estimate there are about 15-20 of them.





Things are not doing so well for the adults in my other tanks tough. I have lost some due to my recent business trip.

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## Ellene

How's the babies?

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## Cardinal Tetra

The babies have gotten bigger in size but their numbers have decreased. Last I counted less than 10 babies were alive. Others died due to moulting issues I assume or suspected internal fighting though I have not witnessed it.

Maybe its time to transfer them into my main tank and let them grow up in there. Will take pics tomorrow.

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## Ellene

Ahh... I've only got 2, 1 red and 1 purple. Both are males.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Hi there did you just bought them? Putting two males in the same tank will result in fighting and usually the weaker one will perish.

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## Ellene

Hi hi. Bought them last week. I've been watching them and so far no fighting. One like to stay on top while the other love staying at the bottom on the Christmas moss. 😊

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## Cardinal Tetra

> Hi hi. Bought them last week. I've been watching them and so far no fighting. One like to stay on top while the other love staying at the bottom on the Christmas moss. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk


Yes keeping them away from each other helps. The money plants provide good foilage but do remove them once you see any signs of agression.

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## Ellene

> Yes keeping them away from each other helps. The money plants provide good foilage but do remove them once you see any signs of agression.


Sure, will do. Thanks!  

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## Cardinal Tetra

Heres an update for you Ellene.
A shot of the baby crabs tank. There are 2 babies in the picture. See if you can find them.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Decided to transfer them to the main tank where I observed that previous hatchlings have grown twice the size as compared to being in their own isolated tank.
Out of the 20+ hatchlings, only 6 remain.

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## Ellene

They are so cute! I wanna buy female ones and breed too! 😜

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## Cardinal Tetra

The main tank now houses 2 adults, 2 juveniles, and 6 babies.

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## Cardinal Tetra

> They are so cute! I wanna buy female ones and breed too! 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk


It is best to have 1 male to 2 or 3 females. I plan to use that ratio and start breeding them again. Do beware of the 2 males in your tank. I can forsee one of them getting killed soon. Lastly, different species dont interbreed. Get red females and purple females for the red and purple males respectively.

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## Ellene

Ok, noted. Thank you!

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## Cardinal Tetra

After taking a closer look at your purple crab, I think it might be a female. The claws are not as thick but then again it could be the camera angle.
Any closer shots of the purple crab?

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## Ellene

Sure!   



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## Cardinal Tetra

Looks like a male to me.
The most sure fire way is to check the underside of the crab.

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## Ellene

Keke he looks more like a pokeball to me. 😜 that's why I bought him. I've got a female one before and this little guy is different on the under. The female one died during molting. 😭

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## Mookie

Can find out what you feed the frogs? Though of getting a few too but not sure if they be ok with dry oellets

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## Cardinal Tetra

Please find out the basic requirements of the animal before keeping them. Frogs are insectivores. They feed on insects like crickets, mealworms, superworms. 
They do not consume fish food or dried pallets and are unable to digest them leading to impaction. Feeding them pallets is equivalent to feeding a cat to a cow.

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## Cardinal Tetra

Please find out the basic requirements of the animal before keeping them. Frogs are insectivores. They feed on insects like crickets, mealworms, superworms. 
They do not consume fish food or dried pallets and are unable to digest them leading to impaction. Feeding them pallets is equivalent to feeding a cat to a cow.

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## mdm

> so hard to find crabs nowadays. just went seaview only left those big crabs. my girlfriend is making me travel there every week to hunt for vampire crabs.


good to have your gf/wife supporting you in this hobby.. Lol  :Laughing:

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