# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  Aqua-planters' nightmare

## RonWill

Dear all,

The 2 tanks I have are in dire need of a revamp and I'm short on ideas. Another reason for the tear down would be to rid the BBA... not that it's bad for the fishes, but esthetically, it could be better.

TOP tank along corridor


BOTTOM tank along corridor


CO2 tubing & diffuser coated with BBA


Question:
Can I safely recycle the plants, gravel and accessories without bleaching or hydrogen peroxide treatment?

AUS Gold in top algae tank

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## kc

What is so bad about the tanks? It look great to me when I saw them last month! In fact, the BBA don't look as bad as those that are black or brown in colour. Yours are light green! :wink: 

How about simply scrapping the bba off and pruning the plants. Kind of a lazy man's work, just like me.

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## FC

My tank is no better looking than yours, minus the BBA though. So, you can imagine that I am just a plant grower  :Laughing:  .

When I face this, I will remove all plants from the tank. Clean the BBA up on both the gravel and plants. Re-plant them.

If you do not really take care of fertilizing (like timebomb), try placing some Horti tab (not stick) in the gravel (need to be at least 2 inch thick). Press the tabs till it sit on glass bottom, space them about 4~5" apart.

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## imported_greentea

Borrow this thread to ask a question. 
What method you use to remove plants in your tank? 

1. Remove the whole plant including all the roots.
2. Cut the plant at root level and leave all the root in the substrate.
3. Other methods.

My current method is to pull out the plant slowly and cut off the root with about an inch of the root attached to the plant. However, can't find a good method to remove all the roots in the substrate without mess up the whole tank.

Cheers...

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## FC

Eric,

You should remove the complete root. There will be a little mess. Try twisting the plant while you pull it out and pull slowly to avoid base fert from rising out.

You may also try this:
1) pull the plant till the root is out by about 2 inch
2) cut the root 1" above the gravel
3) you can remove plant now
4) remove the root individually

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## imported_greentea

Hi Freddy, thanks for your advice. 
My experience shown that remove the root individually is the most tiring and frustrating part cause difficult to see the tiny hair roots clearly from top of the tank due to light coloured gravel in my tank. Only manage to remove those big one. 
What an unsightly view when you look from the side of the tank at near gravel level; you see all the tiny roots sticking up from the gravel.  :Mad:

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## RonWill

hmm... somehow I missed my own thread  :Opps:  

KC, there's nothing bad about the BBA, I'm no longer the die-hard aqua planter that I was, and can accept algae and snails as being part of the mini eco I've created but nicer looking tanks is always a plus point... esp when it's for public viewing.




> My tank is no better looking than yours, minus the BBA though. So, you can imagine that I am just a plant grower . 
> 
> When I face this, I will remove all plants from the tank. Clean the BBA up on both the gravel and plants. Re-plant them.


Freddy, how do you suggest I clean the gravel when lotsa BBA is attached. I'm reluctant to use diluted bleach as it'll also kill off any beneficial bacteria. For the plants, I suppose a massive pruning is my only solution.




> If you do not really take care of fertilizing (like timebomb), try placing some Horti tab (not stick) in the gravel (need to be at least 2 inch thick). Press the tabs till it sit on glass bottom, space them about 4~5" apart.


I'll skip PMDD and fancy fertilizers, if possible, and go with the simplest option. The Horti tab solution sounds convenient but my present gravel is about 2 inches, with foreground area about half an inch  :Opps:  

Bought another bag of Lonestar when I visited Teo's farm and will consider adding to a thicker layer of substrate.

Also, I bought 2 pieces of driftwood (from those which Teo has so generously loaned towards my wife's project) and would like to incorporate these into the revamped tank.


Please bear in mind that the piece of driftwood (on the left) is about 2 feet tall... and the other is taller!  :Shocked: 

 (*Click for larger image*)
I know there's no way of using both at the same time, unless I upgrade to a 6 feet tank <gulp!>, so I'm thinking of using the left piece for the top tank and the right for the lower tank.

The Amazonian biotope look appeals to me, so let me share my 'mental picture', throw some ideas around and see what you folks think.

For the top tank, the driftwood (which looks like lower segment of a tree trunk with roots) will be placed at the right rear corner, with longish blade plants like _Vallisneria_ and _Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae_ behind and beside (on the right, like a L-shape) of the trunk.

The 'trunk-roots', which will be above substrate level, will have _Anubias_ attached (both *barteri* and *nanas* sp.) and slightly further up the trunk, are *Microsorum pteropus 'Tropica'* and perhaps '*Windeløv*' for texture contrast.

The top of the trunk will be emersed and just below the water level, some java moss will be tied and hopefully, will grow above the waterline.

Surrounding the 'trunk roots' will be short and slow growing plants like _C. wendtii_ or equivalent.

CO2 fertilization will continue to be utilized and to mimize CO2 loss, the water surface will be packed full with _Limnobium laevigatum_ (Frogbits), _Pistia stratiotes_ and maybe _Salvinia natans_ as well.

I know not all the plants are African or Amazonian but these are chosen for their low maintenance, low light and slow growing qualities.

For the bottom tank, I'll use the other driftwood (if I can squeeze it through between the supporting frame and tank) and most probably tie *Bolbitis heudelotii* at the middle of the trunk and have java moss cover about 80% of the exposed substrate, leaving an area for feeding. Visually simple and maintenance free. It is also CO2 fertilized and will have the floaters mentioned.

Color and texture contrast could be provided by reusing the *Barclaya longifolia* that's already established in the tank.

Main filtration remain unchanged, ie. with the Eheim HOT filter (Hang On Tank).

So how? Any comments? (besides telling me that I'm nuts for picking such large driftwoods!!  :Rolling Eyes:  )

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## timebomb

> So how? Any comments?  )


Ronnie, I have no comments on your plans but speaking of nightmares, there's something I want to tell you. I got a bag of ADA substrate the other day and decided to revamp one of the tanks in my balcony. I pulled out the plants (they were mostly Crypts) and removed all the gravel. I'm a stingy fellow who never throws away gravel so I washed it inside a pail with the intention of drying and storing it somewhere for use later. Whilst washing the gravel, I suddenly noticed there were hundreds, if not thousands of tiny creatures that look like worms. On closer examination, they turned out to be leeches. Here's a pic of one little fella:



If you look closely, you can even see its eyes. I immediately came to the conclusion that the leeches must have come with the Crypts I bought from Teo's several weeks ago. I examined the Crypts and among their roots, this is what I saw:



I know your Crypts are from Teo's too so chances are quite good the leeches are already in some of your tanks. If it's any consolation, they don't do any harm to fish or plants. They won't suck your blood either. The very thought of having leeches in their tanks scare many people but knowing what a wormy fella you are, I don't think it will scare you  :Laughing: 

Loh K L

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## hwchoy

Loh, what pretty leeches you have  :Exclamation:  man, Im almost tempted to ask for some  :Laughing:   :Laughing:   :Laughing:

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## FC

Ronnie,

It would great if you share with us the pictures after the setup.

I have decided to revamp my tank too. This time, I would use mostly rossete plants. I hope to reduce pruning. I am getting tired of waiting for the aquascape to form only to know that it would be destroyed again in 2¬3 weeks when the next pruning time is up. I want a setup now that the plants would stay in shape all the time. A bit like the main tank of Eco-culture.

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## RonWill

> I know your Crypts are from Teo's too so chances are quite good the leeches are already in some of your tanks.
> The very thought of having leeches in their tanks scare many people but knowing what a wormy fella you are, I don't think it will scare you


You're right Kwek Leong, leeches don't bother me... I have them for breakfast!  :Laughing:  

But seriously, I quarantine both fish and plants before adding them to my tanks. For those crypts, I overlooked them and they kinda 'melted' while in my holding tank and became a stinking mess! I salvaged what I could and planted them. Not sure about the survival rate tho.

If the crypts can survive till the other tank stabilizes, that's where they'll go.

BTW fellas, would it be a good idea to actually use crypts in a new setup? IME, crypts will only do well in 'cycled' established tanks. Opinions?

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## hobbit6003

Hi Ronnie,

Boy, after all these years, and you're still growing BBA eh?  :Very Happy:  

IMO, with a tank choke full with BBA, it'll be hard to eradicate without having to throw out everything and restart the tank. Then, it'll be back to tweaking your fertilisation regime, water change regime, lighting, vis a vis the fish load, diet and plant type, in order to prevent or to put off getting another bout of algae attack, which seems inevitable if the tank's main purpose is to be a breeding/grow out tank, where heavy or sometimes excessive feeding is the rule of the day.

For me, after all these years keeping a highly lit planted tank, I've just set up a lowly lit (2 x 15W flouro) planted tank with some java ferns and anubias sp in a 70L tank. Yes, there's CO2 fertilisation (1 bubble/ 3 secs, 24 hours a day). The main purpose is to breed my apisto and grow out the frys. 

It's only been 3 weeks old and my Apistogramma viejita had just spawned 2 days ago, so it is still early days to see how the plants/algae would do in this tank. I'm not too optimistic though, as the frys would be fed heavily with BBS and daphnias throughout.  :Crying:  

But on a more serious note, I too, think that your BBA growth in the tank added some character to your setup. So, why don't you just 'prune' their growth a bit? With a bit of hardwork, you should improve the tank setup without having to revamp everything at one go.

PS. Lost your new hp no., can you sms me again?


Cheers,

Kenny Poh

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## RonWill

Hey Kenny! Where have you been hiding, you naughty little hobbit!  :Confused:  Glad you finally decided to scram out of lurk mode (not much fun, is it?).

Anyway, I'm 80% inclined towards tearing it down and start from scratch, since that setup is getting old and probably past 14 months, which is much longer than those who frequently rescape their tanks!

Would like to reuse some of the plants, so what are my chances of reintroducing BBA to the new setup and would microwaving the gravel kill those [email protected] algae?

I've not decided whether to revamp the lower tank, but here's what it looks like as of Apr 8th.

BOTTOM tank along corridor 

Also, I've been corresponding with Kim and he has come up with a close illustration of what I have in mind, albeit for the choice of plants. Click on image for larger pic.

Illustration courtesy of T.H. Kim




> Boy, after all these years, and you're still growing BBA eh?


BTW, no thanks to you, everybody now know what my *real* specialty is... algae anyone?  :Opps:

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## RonWill

something I forgot...

While Kim and I were throwing ideas around, including the use of earth or top soil, he asked if 'Lonestar' was a artificial soil.

That made me realized that not everyone is expected to know about the products we're using locally.

FWIW, Lonestar is my fave gravel substrate, with a nice 3mm grit size, and it doesn't require any washing; ie. it can be used straight out of the bag. The rounded gravel is also barbel-safe for the corys.

I've included some pics, which should be self-explanatory. Click on images for larger pics.

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## timebomb

> FWIW, Lonestar is my fave gravel substrate, with a nice 3mm grit size, and it doesn't require any washing;


Ronnie, I can't be sure but the Lonestar gravel, although its perfect for growing aquatic plants, isn't collected for that sole purpose. As far as I know, its industrial use is sand blasting. 

As for the place where its collected from (Monterey), a friend said it's a place somewhere in North America. Our American friends often lament that stuff like driftwoods and aquatic plants are expensive over where they are but they don't know how much we pay for gravel that is just lying all over at their doorsteps  :Laughing: 

Loh K L

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## kc

KL wrote:



> came to the conclusion that the leeches must have come with the Crypts



I found these creatures in my tank too when I switch on the light. Beat watching Eye 2. I think they come with tubifex worms.

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## hobbit6003

Talking abt leeches, I do find them in those live daphnias that I buy. Luckily they are not in great amount and I'd usually pick them out before i rinse the daphnias and feed them to the fish.

Btw, does anyone know the threshold most plants can take, with regards to NaCl concentration in the water column? I'm now using BBS to feed my pencils and apistos, and am quite lazy to filter them out. I'd prefer to just dilute them in a small tub of fresh water before feeding some to the different tanks I've got.

Cheers,

Kenny Poh

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## RonWill

Kenny, the leeches usually accompany the water with livefoods like daphnia, bloodworms and tubifex.

I still prefer a little work than worry about them. Double rinses in a coffee filter and the 'good daphnia' separated to another container with a turkey baster.

Let your guard down, and they'll haunt you.

No idea about NaCl... is that salt??

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## timebomb

> Btw, does anyone know the threshold most plants can take, with regards to NaCl concentration in the water column?


Kenny, a little bit of salt won't hurt the plants. Everyday, all my tanks receive a dose of salt water from a turkey baster filled with baby brine shrimps and my plants never seem to suffer from it. In fact, someone from Thailand who saw me feeding my fish one day thought that was the secret I've kept from everyone - the secret to grow mosses successfully  :Laughing: 

And oh, by the way, you shouldn't speak in symbols. We're not chemists here, you know. Not everyone knows that NaCl is sodium chloride and just as many won't know that sodium chloride is common salt :wink:.

Loh K L

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## RonWill

> And oh, by the way, you shouldn't speak in symbols. We're not chemists here, you know. Not everyone knows that NaCl is sodium chloride and just as many won't know that sodium chloride is common salt :wink:.


Now I know why I failed Chemistry... or maybe it's my memory that's failing!  :Laughing:  

Kwek Leong, I usually rinse and 'purge' newly hatched BBS of excess brine solution. This is easily done in a nylon coffee filter before dose-feeding with the baster.

Personally, I would think that excessive salt content for non-annuals isn't good... just as it is for our own bodies. For annuals, I might not need to purge but still, all things in moderation.

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