# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  if you have brown algae, read this

## hwchoy

recently I got some new kind of horned snails from TB Ben. look what they did to the brown algae!  :Surprised:

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## izzat

:Opps:  Picture did not fully load.
Anyone faced the same problem as me? *After refreshing the page*

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## hwchoy

maybe you try right-click save-as ?

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## izzat

No difference Uncle Choy  :Sad:

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## hwchoy

then I boh bian liao. short of emailing you the pix, if you're desperate enuff.

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## andrewtyr

i can see it

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## hwchoy

so andrew, my snail power or not?

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## PeterGwee

Ah...good for you but the plant health still leaves much to be desired.  :Laughing:  

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## izzat

Can see both pictures when I use IE  :Blah:  

Cool, seems good. Will the normal Horn snail work?  :Grin:

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## andrewtyr

> so andrew, my snail power or not?


haha..the snails are good. Are they the same horn snails? I heard that its the same snails just that they will shed the colours.

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## hwchoy

> Ah...good for you but the plant health still leaves much to be desired.  
> 
> Regards
> Peter Gwee


eh Peter, which plant you refering to? the crypt like boom-town charlie man (turning red-brown due to the strong lights) but the HG are not growing fast enough *sianz*

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## |squee|

I see windows! Sunlight lah.  :Razz:  

Pro snail, but my expired Singapore Sports Association member card works just as well  :Grin:

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## hwchoy

> I see windows! Sunlight lah.  
> 
> Pro snail, but my expired Singapore Sports Association member card works just as well



mana ada window? that's the co2 ladder lah. the snail managed to clean the ladder which is difficult to do even with green wool  :Wink:

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## PeterGwee

> eh Peter, which plant you refering to? the crypt like boom-town charlie man (turning red-brown due to the strong lights) but the HG are not growing fast enough *sianz*


The one in the pic..vallisneria americana? Well, look into the nutrients (N,P,K,GH and trace mix) and crank the CO2 within the critter's limits.

Oh, drop the stupid ladder  :Grin:  Consider something better and more responsive. Even CO2 fed into the intake of a small powerhead is a much better method than the ladder.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## hwchoy

the one is the pix is the _C. crispatula_ var. balansae  :Smile:

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## PeterGwee

> the one is the pix is the _C. crispatula_ var. balansae


That is not healthy stuff. This is... 

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## |squee|

> mana ada window? that's the co2 ladder lah. the snail managed to clean the ladder which is difficult to do even with green wool


Lmao, it looks like those windows you find in old HDB flats  :Grin:

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## hwchoy

erm can't see a difference other than the colour. mine is growing into a strong red brown even for the young leaves, although I believe it has got to do with the strong lights. Actually I am surprised they are doing better than the HG. to be fair I haven't been taking care of them, just changing water and dosing a little TMG when I feel like it  :Smug: 

lazy lah these days.

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## hwchoy

> Lmao, it looks like those windows you find in old HDB flats



yah I'm trying to show you how the snail managed to clean the algae off completely.

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## PeterGwee

> erm can't see a difference other than the colour. mine is growing into a strong red brown even for the young leaves, although I believe it has got to do with the strong lights. Actually I am surprised they are doing better than the HG. to be fair I haven't been taking care of them, just changing water and dosing a little TMG when I feel like it 
> 
> lazy lah these days.


Just don't let the NO3 get too low (dose some lah..) or else you might find something that smells yucky inside there soon.  :Razz:  

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## hwchoy

halamak, I never even measure siaz  :Smug:

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## Justikanz

Oh yes... The horned and the zebra snails helped me removed all traces of brown and green encrusting algae! I would recommend at least 1 small horned snail in each tank to prevent such algae now... But they lay those sesame seed eggs which can be ugly and difficult to rid... So, double edge sword...  :Smile:

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## GaspingGurami

> Oh yes... The horned and the zebra snails helped me removed all traces of brown and green encrusting algae! I would recommend at least 1 small horned snail in each tank to prevent such algae now... But they lay those sesame seed eggs which can be ugly and difficult to rid... So, double edge sword...


Ditto here, and mine's the plain black horn type, not Choy's fancy patterned one. To TB Ben I go. Guys, don't buy up all of them. leave some for me.  :Wink:  

These are effective creartues especially when you consider that they clean BBA and GSA from leaves without damaging it. The eggs of mine never hatch -- they get eaten up in a few days.  :Exasperated:  Though I wouldn't have minded it propogating in my tank one bit.

But mine seem to grow to around 8mm size, then they seem to be too weak to right themselves after a fall. Never happen to the younger ones though. Why ha?

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## Justikanz

Dun worry, C328 also has stock...  :Razz:  The black ones are very effective... and yes, they might not be able to right themselves very fast after a fall and are easy prey for curious fish like bettas... 

Think their young need brackish water or salt water to grow... Hey, what ate the eggs? Recommend? The 'sesame seed eggs' can be a nuisance sometimes...  :Confused:

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## GaspingGurami

I'm not sure what ate the eggs but they don't stay on the leaves very long. I've got Harlequin rasboras, lampeyes, Yamatos and a khuli loach. one of them must have been the culprit

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## Justikanz

:Huh?:  I have all those fauna you mentioned...  :Huh?:

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## GaspingGurami

Feed lesser and see what happens?  :Grin:

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## Justikanz

Won't want to take the risk of them foraging among the newly planted APP and attack the cherry shrimps that I HOPE will establish in the Java moss mass...  :Opps:

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## Clown Barb

> Dun worry, C328 also has stock...  The black ones are very effective... and yes, they might not be able to right themselves very fast after a fall and are easy prey for curious fish like bettas... 
> 
> Think their young need brackish water or salt water to grow... Hey, what ate the eggs? Recommend? The 'sesame seed eggs' can be a nuisance sometimes...


Hi Justikanz

Do barbs eat this type of snails?

Cheers

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## Justikanz

Not sure leh... Some may do so, esp when overturned... Cherry barbs are ok. I had them with the snails... Would not know for more active barbs eg. tiger...

For other fishes, my bettas will make a meal out of the smaller ones when they dun right themselves after some time... Someone reported that his loach MIGHT be eating his snails...

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## Green Baron

> Oh yes... The horned and the zebra snails helped me removed all traces of brown and green encrusting algae! I would recommend at least 1 small horned snail in each tank to prevent such algae now... But they lay those sesame seed eggs which can be ugly and difficult to rid... So, double edge sword...


I think the eggs are from Zebra snail and not Horn snail.

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## Justikanz

Both will... I had tanks with only the horned or only the zebras and the same type of eggs appear...

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## xxdivinityxx

Ok, i've got 1 tiny bugger like the one in the pic a few days back, since i was convinced by this thread.
The result?

Amazing, this bugger cleans brown algae up like its the last meal on earth (possibly might be at the rate my tank is going  :Razz: )

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## izzat

> Amazing, this bugger cleans brown algae up like its the last meal on earth (possibly might be at the rate my tank is going )


I'm sure it will be helpful and useful in my tank  :Blah:

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## benny

Hmm.. interesting snail. Nice pattern too. How much do they cost?

Anyway, Otos and twig catfish also do as good a job, except for tiny and hard to reach areas.

Cheers,

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## Green Baron

Benny,
They cost around $1. Those at Ben's shop are all sold out. You might want to check out C328.

I noticed the recent batches are all very tiny - 6~7mm  :Sad:  In the past they used to be around 12~15mm.

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## Green Baron

> Both will... I had tanks with only the horned or only the zebras and the same type of eggs appear...


Interesting, my tanks with only Horn snails do not have eggs. Only those with Zebra snails have eggs everywhere. 

I would expect the Horn snail eggs to be much smaller  :Confused:

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## Justikanz

Hmm... My horned were bigger than those on sale currently, bought them like more than 6 months ago... And they are the black ones... Could they be different? Hmm...

Benny, C328 has the fancy yellow and black ones... And think NA has them now also...

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## xxdivinityxx

Benny,

NA selling khor puah. 
Lol cannot declare price openly.

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## barmby

"alamak!" I think I am late for the snails. Tiong Bahru sold out? And where else? It seem like a Yamato-shrimp phenomena !!!

Will polish clean all brown algae, right? How about BBA and BGA?  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:

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## hwchoy

I had a strange phenomena in my tank, the lapis substrate newly planted with HG and rather exposed to the strong light. left half of the tank the gravel was still clean. right half the gravel was becoming very dirtly and turning brown. then lately I notice the brown right hand side has been turning white again and now both sides the same colour. I suspect not only the snails but also a recent _Hemiloricaria eigenmanni_ I added was doing the job.

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## jon409

wao , thats the 'helicopter 'right? some call it like royal twig or something like that. is it that good? good for shrimp tank?
regards  :Grin:

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## barmby

> wao , thats the 'helicopter 'right? some call it like royal twig or something like that. is it that good? good for shrimp tank?
> regards


Some call it helicopter. Esp. LFS like C328 and Y618  :Smile:   :Smile:  

Yes. Its a good algae remover. It remove algae that stick on glass and on gravel. 

I believe it will not harm the shrimp. I may be wrong if your shrimps are real tiny.

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## barmby

F A R L O W E L L A

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## jon409

do they grow big? 
wat their max size?
regards  :Grin:

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## |squee|

I've heard of specimens up to 1ft in length.

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## jon409

wao! thats big in size !!  :Shocked:  
wat price seeling in LFS ?? anyone any idea?
regards

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## hwchoy

> Some call it helicopter. Esp. LFS like C328 and Y618   
> 
> Yes. Its a good algae remover. It remove algae that stick on glass and on gravel. 
> 
> I believe it will not harm the shrimp. I may be wrong if your shrimps are real tiny.



I think helicopter normally refers to this _Sturisoma aureum_

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## hwchoy

> F A R L O W E L L A


these are not farlowella. one is a _Hemiloricaria_ and the other a _Sturisoma_. they grow up to around 6-8 inches.

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## benny

Choy,

Some great photos here. Thanks for sharing. 

Side note.... have you considered a single color substrate for some of your documentary photography? Perhaps slate grey? Does wonders for the exposure and does not drown your subject. Works great with black background too and you don't need a grey card for metering.

Cheers,

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## hwchoy

> Choy,
> 
> Some great photos here. Thanks for sharing. 
> 
> Side note.... have you considered a single color substrate for some of your documentary photography? Perhaps slate grey? Does wonders for the exposure and does not drown your subject. Works great with black background too and you don't need a grey card for metering.
> 
> Cheers,



actually I have been wanting to get some good neutral gray substrate. you got any? I just need half a tub to fill a betta barrack.

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## Wackytpt

> "alamak!" I think I am late for the snails. Tiong Bahru sold out? And where else? It seem like a Yamato-shrimp phenomena !!!
> 
> Will polish clean all brown algae, right? How about BBA and BGA?


go Qian Hui.. just went recce with Michael .. they have the zebra horn snail, horn snail, zebra, diamond and the Yellow snail  :Razz:

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## benny

> actually I have been wanting to get some good neutral gray substrate. you got any? I just need half a tub to fill a betta barrack.


I have the Dennerle one which I'm not very satisfied with. Looks man made. Looking for the ADA one, but can't find it. Will try Hong Kong as the Apisto shop that I visit uses them. If I'm getting it, I can get a pack for you too.

Cheers,

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## izzat

> go Qian Hui.. just went recce with Michael .. they have the zebra horn snail, horn snail, zebra, diamond and the Yellow snail


So many? You never tell me  :Opps:  

Will go down soon to take a look and buy them  :Jump for joy:

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## hwchoy

> I have the Dennerle one which I'm not very satisfied with. Looks man made. Looking for the ADA one, but can't find it. Will try Hong Kong as the Apisto shop that I visit uses them. If I'm getting it, I can get a pack for you too.
> 
> Cheers,



don't get the ADA for me if it is not washable. I need to wash the gravel in the betta phototank. I saw some grey sand (can't remember whether ADA brand) in Keong Seong. small pack for $25 is that the one?

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## izzat

Uncle Choy,

If you want ADA Grey-coloured sand, it would be the Nile Sand, comes in 2 sizes, 2.6kg or 5.2kg, and it's washable since it's only sand and not soil  :Razz:

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## benny

> don't get the ADA for me if it is not washable. I need to wash the gravel in the betta phototank. I saw some grey sand (can't remember whether ADA brand) in Keong Seong. small pack for $25 is that the one?


It's washable. I'm not looking for ADA's Aquasoil. Those are not good for photography and plenty of sedimentation when stirred.

You might want to check out the one at Keong Seong, but I don't think it's the same one. They also have the ADA Sarawak Sand which I'm sure you will find good. I got 2 packs of those previously, but haven't had the time to use it yet. Potential nice warm color, much like your current substrate, but very fine grains.

Cheers,

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## hwchoy

> Uncle Choy,
> 
> If you want ADA Grey-coloured sand, it would be the Nile Sand, comes in 2 sizes, 2.6kg or 5.2kg, and it's washable since it's only sand and not soil



yes yes that's the one I saw. I hesistate to buy it because it may look nice and grey under normal light but could become very bright under flash. perhaps I'll try it.

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## barmby

hwchoy is correct. I am wrong. sorry for the info, guys..

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## barmby

Oh...by the way. IMO - These three species are really close in body shape. I am new to these Farlowellas, Hemiloricarias, & Sturisomas. I think Gan has Farlowella now.

Thanks for enlightening me  :Smile:

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## hwchoy

I think there are easily a hundred species with this shape ah. check out planetcatfish.com

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## barmby

> I think there are easily a hundred species with this shape ah. check out planetcatfish.com


Can you believe, the LFS, all calls it "helicopter".. oh man.  :Smile:   :Smile:

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## hwchoy

the LFS just need a convenient name, what.

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## silane

Does anyone know if MTS eat such algae?

They are easily available, good if they can do the job well.  :Smile:

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## stormhawk

MTS will graze on brown algae but if it acquires a taste for fish food, then they usually will ignore the algae. They are not as effective as ramshorns or the otos when it comes to brown algae.

My whiptails, same as Choy's, are pretty greedy fellas. They don't go for algae as much as they do for tubifex, which happens to be their favourite food.

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