# Other Aquarium Forums > Fish Care, Nutrition and Water Management >  cycle tank for 4 weeks still full of ammonia?

## gentle

4 weeks ago i reset my 4 ft shrimp tank but until today it is still very high in ammonia (maximum the test kit can measure)

i had reused the old media (biohome) in my canister hoping that it will speed up cycling, but the bacteria inside was probably killed by the chlorine since day one

my new soil is ADA soil and i also added some BT9

i added some plants and they seem to be doing well

do i need to do anything or wait for another 1-2 weeks?

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## Mystikboy

4 weeks is very long, even if the original
BB was destroyed on the first day. Normally, bb takes 2-3'weeks to be established. When did you add the soil? Did you make any changes to the media?

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## gentle

> 4 weeks is very long, even if the original
> BB was destroyed on the first day. Normally, bb takes 2-3'weeks to be established. When did you add the soil? Did you make any changes to the media?


this was what i did: 
- i shifted my livestocks to a temporary tank and kept the main canister running at the temporary tank
- i then took about 1 week to clear out and wash my 4ft tank

- on 21 Apr i did the following
- i got a temporary canister, transferred a tray of media from main canister to the temporary canister 
- connected the temporary canister to the temporary tank with livestock
- added ADA soil + BT9 to main tank
- fill up main tank with tap water
- connect back the main canister to the main tank and start cycling
- added some plants to the main tank (no fish)

i tested the main tank every week and so far it is high ammonia but no nitrate / nitrite

the temporary tank is ok without ammonia...

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## Mystikboy

Have you been doing water changes, which would have helped decrease the amount ammonia? And how much soil is there?

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## gentle

> Have you been doing water changes, which would have helped decrease the amount ammonia? And how much soil is there?


i didn't do much water change - only 1-2 times about 5-10%

is it important?

2 large (8L) packs of soil about 5cm high

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## Mystikboy

Hmm
Shouldn't be that much ammonia buildup. I Suggest Doing a large water change, about 50%, and monitor from there

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## davincey

Errhhmmm... do big water changes to reduce the ammonia to a testable level first. The amount of ammonia in your water column now may have overwhelmed the bacteria colony's ability to process the ammonia. ADA soil keeps releasing ammonia for the first few weeks so if the levels are beyond the capabilities of your bacteria colony, it'll be unlikely to see it come down at all. Do check your PH as well, I've experienced low PH (5) stalling my cycling before.

Normally, I keep my cycling tanks at 3-4ppm at most.... if the test shows 0 ammonia 24hours later for 3 days then I will introduce livestocks. I ever managed to cycle a new tank using old filter media in 2 weeks before.

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## gentle

> Errhhmmm... do big water changes to reduce the ammonia to a testable level first. The amount of ammonia in your water column now may have overwhelmed the bacteria colony's ability to process the ammonia. ADA soil keeps releasing ammonia for the first few weeks so if the levels are beyond the capabilities of your bacteria colony, it'll be unlikely to see it come down at all. Do check your PH as well, I've experienced low PH (5) stalling my cycling before.
> 
> Normally, I keep my cycling tanks at 3-4ppm at most.... if the test shows 0 ammonia 24hours later for 3 days then I will introduce livestocks. I ever managed to cycle a new tank using old filter media in 2 weeks before.


that's a logical explanation...
will check my PH...

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## Urban Aquaria

Just to add... whats the dimensions/volume of your 4ft tank? In larger tanks, the cycle process can take comparatively longer than in smaller tanks.  :Smile:

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## gentle

it is a 4x1.5x1.5 tank - should be around 200l

just tested the PH - it is close to 6.0

will do more water change and test again this weekend

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## Navanod

Erm...you mentioned that you "had reused the old media (biohome) in my canister hoping that it will speed up cycling, but the bacteria inside was probably killed by the chlorine since day one".

Why was there chlorine to begin with? What kind of water did you use and how did you treat it?

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## Urban Aquaria

> it is a 4x1.5x1.5 tank - should be around 200l
> 
> just tested the PH - it is close to 6.0
> 
> will do more water change and test again this weekend


Yeah, that works out to around 243+ litres... i guess that volume of water would take abit longer to cycle than the more common 50-60+ litre 2ft tanks most here keep.

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## sawzai

What test kit you used that shows that its full of ammonia ? The test kit is also measuring the total of ammonium and ammonia confirm. Ph lower than 7 will be ammonium which is harmless. Above 7 ph will be ammonia which is harmful and toxic. When i first started adding in ada soil in my tank with a 6month old canister filter, the test kit still shows the highest indication of ammonia but on that day after , put in my group of discus and they have no problem . When using the ammonia test product from seachem that come with a suction cup, and it did mot detect any ammonia at all  :Laughing:

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## gentle

> Erm...you mentioned that you "had reused the old media (biohome) in my canister hoping that it will speed up cycling, but the bacteria inside was probably killed by the chlorine since day one".
> 
> Why was there chlorine to begin with? What kind of water did you use and how did you treat it?


i filled up the tank with water direct from my tap

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## gentle

> What test kit you used that shows that its full of ammonia ? The test kit is also measuring the total of ammonium and ammonia confirm. Ph lower than 7 will be ammonium which is harmless. Above 7 ph will be ammonia which is harmful and toxic. When i first started adding in ada soil in my tank with a 6month old canister filter, the test kit still shows the highest indication of ammonia but on that day after , put in my group of discus and they have no problem . When using the ammonia test product from seachem that come with a suction cup, and it did mot detect any ammonia at all


i use this API test kit
http://www.apifishcare.com/product.p...catid=0&id=582

after 4 weeks it is still showing the maximum level...

my temporary tank is showing 0 so there is nothing wrong with the test kit

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## gentle

> Yeah, that works out to around 243+ litres... i guess that volume of water would take abit longer to cycle than the more common 50-60+ litre 2ft tanks most here keep.


when i first did up the tank with new media and mosura sand (with a few fishes), the cycling was done within 4 weeks

now the difference is that i use ADA soil and fishless cycling (same set of equipment)

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## sawzai

> i use this API test kit
> http://www.apifishcare.com/product.p...catid=0&id=582
> 
> after 4 weeks it is still showing the maximum level...
> 
> my temporary tank is showing 0 so there is nothing wrong with the test kit


how long have your temporary tank been running ? 
yup nothing is wrong with your test kit. your tank is full of ammonium and not ammonia  :Laughing: 
after i put my discus in , it took me 1.5 - 2months later to shows 0 ammonia/ammonium

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## Urban Aquaria

> when i first did up the tank with new media and mosura sand (with a few fishes), the cycling was done within 4 weeks
> 
> now the difference is that i use ADA soil and fishless cycling (same set of equipment)


ADA aqua soil (new from bag) would usually release more ammonia for a longer period of time, so i guess that probably result in longer cycle. More large water changes should help remove the excess ammonia.

Btw, if you do add in fishes when the ammonia readings are still high but with low pH, do be careful when doing large water changes, as that might inadvertently swing pH back up too quickly (as our tap water usually has neutral to alkaline pH) and a percentage of the harmless ammonium might turn to harmful ammonia in just that instant, some fishes and shrimps might not be able to take that sudden spike. Thats why some people report that their shrimps or fishes started dying after a larger water change, could be that reason.  :Grin:

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## gentle

> how long have your temporary tank been running ? 
> yup nothing is wrong with your test kit. your tank is full of ammonium and not ammonia 
> after i put my discus in , it took me 1.5 - 2months later to shows 0 ammonia/ammonium


really? the test kit says "ammonia" 
i am planning to keep CRS so will only add them when everything is 0

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## gentle

> ADA aqua soil (new from bag) would usually release more ammonia for a longer period of time, so i guess that probably result in longer cycle. More large water changes should help remove the excess ammonia.
> 
> Btw, if you do add in fishes when the ammonia readings are still high but with low pH, do be careful when doing large water changes, as that might inadvertently swing pH back up too quickly (as our tap water usually has neutral to alkaline pH) and a percentage of the harmless ammonium might turn to harmful ammonia in just that instant, some fishes and shrimps might not be able to take that sudden spike. Thats why some people report that their shrimps or fishes started dying after a larger water change, could be that reason.


noted.
maybe i'll change a small pail of water every day...easier for me (not sure if it is going to be effective or not)

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## sawzai

> really? the test kit says "ammonia" 
> i am planning to keep CRS so will only add them when everything is 0


Yup. 
The test kit wrote " NH3 / nh4+ " below the word ammonia. Nh4+ is ammonium, nh3 is ammonia . Alright, :smile:

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## gentle

> Yup. 
> The test kit wrote " NH3 / nh4+ " below the word ammonia. Nh4+ is ammonium, nh3 is ammonia . Alright, :smile:


hmm...so what is it really testing? NH3 or NH4+?

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## sawzai

> hmm...so what is it really testing? NH3 or NH4+?


It test the total of both ammonia and ammonium . If you only want to test for ammonia , get a seachem ammonia alert as it only test for ammonia and not ionic ammonia ( ammonium ) . Take a look at their product  :Grin:

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## Ken_ng

Hello
What is the temp of your tank? The higher the temperature, the more toxic the ammonia. Also, at higher temp the BB goes into a dormant state.
Also, too high an ammonia concentration would harm the BB.

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## newlife

Do a test on a new test kit...
I have experience this before...

There is a shelf life for test kit...
And once opened...it's must be kept in a certain temp requirement.

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## gentle

> It test the total of both ammonia and ammonium . If you only want to test for ammonia , get a seachem ammonia alert as it only test for ammonia and not ionic ammonia ( ammonium ) . Take a look at their product


i see - understand now  :Smile: 




> Hello
> What is the temp of your tank? The higher the temperature, the more toxic the ammonia. Also, at higher temp the BB goes into a dormant state.
> Also, too high an ammonia concentration would harm the BB.


tank is room temperature (my chiller is currently connected to my temporary tank)




> Do a test on a new test kit...
> I have experience this before...
> 
> There is a shelf life for test kit...
> And once opened...it's must be kept in a certain temp requirement.


no problem with the test kit - i tested the water of my temporary tank and it shows zero level

this thread should soon be updated to "5 weeks" lol
last night i measured and it is still maximum...i have transferred a sponge from my temporary tank - hope this will help

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## davincey

You'll have to get it down to a level that your test kit can actually read first. It's really amazing... when I was cycling my 36cm tank with ADA soil, it got stalled as well. I didn't add much ammonia but it still doesn't seem to be coming down at all. After 3 weeks, took a look at the nitrite levels.... off the scale. I did multiple big water changes within 3 days but the nitrite levels were still off my test kit charts since a lot of the tank water was in my canister. Finally got annoyed and poured out 70% of the tank water and 50% of the water in the canister. Only then did I get the nitrite level to 3ppm. 1 day after that ammonia went to 0, nitrite went to 0. For the next 3 days ammonia went to 0 from 2ppm within 12 hours and 0 nitrites detected. It looked as if the tank was ready to be cycled... but the super high nitrite level messed with the cycle  :Embarassed: 

Although in your case it may be different... that level of nitrite would have killed any livestock you have in your tank already. Anyway, just get the levels down... then you can confirm that it is cycling... rather than having an unreadable level and hope that it IS cycling  :Razz:

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## gentle

why do you need to change the water in your cannister? shouldn't the water be flowing inside all the time?

last weekend my nitrite and nitrate levels are both 0 while ammonium is still 8

no livestock in the tank so nobody is harmed during the cycling process  :Wink:

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## davincey

In my case I wanted to do a close to 90% water change. My tank was small so the filter and pipes did hold about 20% of the total capacity. I didn't want to mess up my soil either so I drained the water using the filter intakes then poured the water out from the filter. Eheim ecco filters are rather easy to prime anyway... too bad the build quality is questionable :/

Bring ammonia down to 5ppm first and maintain the ph at around 7 for best results. At least you will know if ammonia is going down at all or going up instead  :Very Happy: 
I ever tried using Ammonium Bicarbonate before, then dosed too much and the cycle stalled.

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## gentle

wonder if you guys add tap water directly to the tank or age the water overnight before adding to the tank?

wouldn't you need many pails for big amount of water change?

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## sawzai

> wonder if you guys add tap water directly to the tank or age the water overnight before adding to the tank?
> 
> wouldn't you need many pails for big amount of water change?


My 120gallon planted discus, i off the filters first then just fill up my tank with tap water via long hose then add prime after that. Awhile later then i on the filter. No problem before.  :Grin:

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## Khairilasny

Will the tap water kill off the BB?

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## gentle

i thought so...turning off filter for prolong period of time (30mins?) would also kill the BB

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## gentle

some update...it's been 8 weeks since i started cycling...

at 6 weeks+ the ammonia was still >8ppm...

so i changed about 15-20% of water (i only have 2 clean pails) and a week later the ammonia dropped to about 4ppm

and today finally there is zero ammonia and zero nitrite...and high level of nitrate...

it's a long journey...i think the key was the water change - should have done it earlier as recommended by "urban aquaria"

i can add my shrimps to the tank very soon!  :Smile:

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## sammajor

Water change is critical and a must for new tank.

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## delhezi

Buy a reducing agent from the LFS to dechlorinate/remove chloramine/remove heavy metals from your water.

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## muakmuak

My nitrate reduced from 200 to 30 after added in purigen recommended by a bro here. Took 3 weeks to complete cycling.
I am not sure was it purigen taking effect or it was completing the cycling though. Ammonia and nitrie were close to zero then.

You can maybe try this if all else failed

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## ren_hao

Today is day 9 of my fishless cycle.

I had started with fish food for a few days but the increase in Ammonia is minimal.
So, I went to get Ammonium Bicarbonate (smelly powder) and brought the level up to 4ppm.

Ammonia drop for 1 day from 4ppm to 2ppm. I dosed it up to 4ppm.
The funny thing is that this morning when i woke up, I saw that I got increased reading on Nitrite and Nitrate at the same time.
Not very "standard" leh. I thought Ammonia and Nitrite will go both to 0 before I see Nitrate?
Any gurus can help?

My current readings are:

pH: 7.5
Ammonia: 4
Nitrite: 2
Nitrate: 0.75

Test Kit used:
Ammonia: API Ammonia (NJ3/NH4+)
Nitrite: API (NO2)
Nitrate RedSea

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## Urban Aquaria

Those readings you are getting just mean the cycle is progressing steadily, the conversion process is abit like "chain production" in a factory.  :Smile: 

In your case, the different types of bacteria responsible for each stage of the conversion process are growing at a relatively similar pace, so you can see all of them showing increasing/decreasing measurements. In time you should see ammonia eventually drop to 0, nitrite showing spike up momentarily, then then drop to 0 too... then from thereon only nitrate will showing readings and continue increasing steadily, then your tank is considered cycled.

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