# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  Electric Blue Rams

## stormhawk

Got these two young males from NKS after visiting a friend in the area:



I couldn't spot any females in the tank so if anyone has seen them anywhere else, let me know. I also found a balloon Electric Blue in the same tank, so I guess this strain has the probability to produce balloons in the fry.

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## LifeisBoring

try C328 , aquastar or Y618 ? i know aquastar have blue rams.

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## stormhawk

I was at C328 but they had only really small ones for sale. The bigger ones are in a tank with some sick fish so it would be bad idea on my part to get those. Perhaps I'll pay a visit to Aquastar. Thanks for the heads up.

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## Luc Tango

i've seen a tank full at seaview few weeks back. not sure if they are still there though.

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## amkalvin

> I was at C328 but they had only really small ones for sale. The bigger ones are in a tank with some sick fish so it would be bad idea on my part to get those. Perhaps I'll pay a visit to Aquastar. Thanks for the heads up.


 Was there too last week , without hesitation ,bag 3 big ones . End up it live less than a week . Stupid me ,didn't notice any sick fish around but only their beautiful colors  :Sad:

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## stormhawk

I bit the bullet today and bought 2 female EB rams from C328. At least these two are healthy and eating in my tank at the moment. A photo of one of them:



They had a batch of young Rams, probably the normal golden. Ended up buying 3 males and 1 female. No other females that I saw in the batch. Here's one of them not yet fully settled in:



The long ventral fins was too much to resist.

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## Shi Xuan

That's a very beautiful electric blue but I'd prefer the original/wild form of Ram. C328 used to carry the wild ones, which comes in pairs, stocked in the betta tanks but for some reasons, they stopped doing that for a long time. :Sad:

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## stormhawk

Those weren't wild form but German Blues, and sometimes the large pairs are probably former breeding stock so some are already past their prime. It's hard to find the wild form locally. Most farms only focus on producing the gold, long finned, balloon forms. Took a few more shots:



Better shot of one of the 2 EB males.



Another shot of one of the random males, I guess you can call these "wild" form or close. This one shows the normal coloration, the black intensifies when in threat position.



The male with the long ventrals. I like the black mark on the forehead.  :Grin:

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## mimin5zidane

Hi. Sorry for being out of topic. But are blue rams a community fish? I intend to start filling up my 2 feet light planted tank with community fishes.

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## stormhawk

In a 2ft you can probably keep a pair. They are safe with other fishes as long as they are well fed and the other fishes are not too small to fit in their mouths. They will quarrel during meal time so make sure each Ram gets to eat enough.

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## Shi Xuan

> Those weren't wild form but German Blues, and sometimes the large pairs are probably former breeding stock so some are already past their prime. It's hard to find the wild form locally. Most farms only focus on producing the gold, long finned, balloon forms.


It was a long time ago, maybe 4-5 years, when I saw a pair of the original form, that is, the German Blue Rams in one of those betta tank. That said, I haven't been able to find any specimens as beautiful as that pair I bought then. :Sad:  I believe it was bred locally and sold by someone though because the color and patterns are too distinct to be bred by a farm. The blond, balloon and the long-finned ones are very common in comparison. I've hardly seen anymore of those "wild ones" in C328 ever since then.

I can still remember vividly, the male is about 7cm in length and the female, slightly smaller and reminds me of the color of a Golden pheasant, with those dazzling splashes of color. The pair has even spawned and laid plenty of eggs in the betta tank when I bought them.

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## Aquanoob

A very interesting video from youtube. The much larger Discus VS the smaller GBR parent

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## stormhawk

I saw those large Rams too in the past but very often they were in bad shape when kept in those cramped conditions. The nicest pair I ever got was from Y618 but alas, at that size and probable age, already past their prime. I even had a pair of "lesbian" females that laid eggs and tried to "fertilise" each other's eggs....  :Knockout: 

They seem to like Carnivore Pellets though. The male EBRs just tear the pellets up like no tomorrow.

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## stormhawk

Finally, a good shot of my best male EBR:



This one was taken when it was flaring at a female EBR nearby.

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## Stitch

Please teach me how you determine this to be a female. Thanks.



Better shot of one of the 2 EB males.

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## amkalvin

Are those EBR new batch from c328 ? Look big from the pic .

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## stormhawk

Stitch, the fish in that picture is a male, like I labelled it to be. In post no.6 I pictured one of the 2 females. Look at the ventrals.

amkalvin, I got the males from NKS at Kovan, they are about 3.5 cm in length, young males but capable of breeding at that size. There were no males left at C328 the first time I went. I took 2 females from C328 on a second trip back there.

I don't think I've seen any large EBRs yet. Oddly, nearly every other LFS has these but not the GBRs.

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## Shi Xuan

Jianyang, after viewing those photos of yours, that leads me to wonder the camera you are currently using. The definition is much better than those taken back in 2004/05. My best camera in possession is a pathetic Olympus FE-170 and nowhere better than my phone, even with the flash on. :Embarassed: 

Back to the topic, the electric blue ram in the first photo, is simply amazing. In fact, I've thought of getting them when they were first released a few years back but I was quite shocked at the price they were retailed and dropped the idea ever since. I think the logical theory to support the LFS, is the appalling nature of these selectively bred fishes, which is so magnificent to the masses, that they were ruling out the German blue Rams. Perhaps, the original breeder(s) managed to discover a mutation, I guess, and they wanted more blue, and they got it. 

Most people like this variant, so that's why we see so many Electric blue ram in nearly every LFS.

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## stormhawk

My camera is a old Canon PowerShot E1 model that I originally bought for my parents. They don't use it much so I just use it to snap a few shots every now and then. I got an even older Nikon Coolpix that has horrible focusing. When I have more cash to burn I'll get a better camera.

They were expensive in the initial days when everyone wanted one after seeing them at Aquarama. Now they're fairly common but still expensive. The females cost 3 times that of the normal Rams I bought, but my parents like the EBRs so it's all good. I think one of the females has paired up because the dominant EBR male allows her to feed freely but he chases every other Ram away whenever I feed them.

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## Shi Xuan

Nice, I think if the pair is compatible, nothing will stop them from spawning, as compared to the wild caught ones, which needs to have their water parameters tweaked to turn on their mood or even to stay healthy IMO. 

P.S Are you going down GC/C328 this weekend? Maybe, I can take the opportunity to borrow the book from you if you don't mind. :Smile:

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## stormhawk

Hopefully they'll spawn. I see the male displaying to the female every now and then. They're young so the only thing I fear is them eating their spawn.

I'm not free this weekend since there's a family gathering at my uncle's place. Perhaps on Sunday, but no promises.

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## stormhawk

Took a video of the EBRs displaying and doing their usual threat postures. Nearing the end you will see some special behavior.  :Grin:

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## Aquanoob

Sorry what special behaviours are we suppose to notice? I don't see anything strange or special somehow.

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## mordrake

Lovely rams you have there. Would love to get a pair or 2 but worried my tank pH of 5.6-5.8 may be too low. 
Hope they spawn soon  :Smile:

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## stormhawk

Aquanoob, nearing the end of the video you will see the pair cleaning the pit they dug in my substrate. The male pushes the soil away with his tail when he shimmies in the pit. That is usually the prelude to spawning activity. The male is not even attempting to chase away the female, but he lets her remain in his zone when typically he would chase every other Ram away.  :Wink: 

Mordrake, thanks a lot. The male EBR does not seem to be interested in the normal female Ram and he only focuses his attention on the fatter of the 2 EBR females. Maybe this strain does not recognise the other strains of Rams as potential mates. However, the other male EBR and one of the 3 normal Ram males keeps dancing to the fat EBR female too.  :Laughing:

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## mordrake

Hmmm.... Off to NKS now!  :Smile:

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## Stitch

Stormhawk,

Can you share with me how you determine a female electric blue ram where there is no pink belly and the dorsal fin is not very visible to tell.
What other features can we look at? Thanks.

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## stormhawk

The pelvic fins do not end in a sharp tip, but instead in a blunt tip. May be pointed in some females. First few dorsal rays are short and their dorsal and anal fins are not as long as males. When in breeding condition, occasionally you may be able to see a hint of violet in the belly.

The male EBRs in my tank have a slight red color to the top edge of their dorsal fin, whereas the females have a silvery-gold tone on the 4th and 5th rays, black tips on the first 3 rays.

If in doubt, buy a few juvenile EBRs like the ones at C328 in one of the tanks close to the left entry way, and grow them up in a group. Those are not sexable at that age so it's a hit and miss kind of affair if you start with those. I prefer to buy young adults that are sexable, but often, you have to visit 2 LFS like I did, to get both sexes.

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## andytan

Hi Stormhawk,
I managed to breed EBR last year. Be careful after they have spawned, the male becomes very agressive. In fact it killed the female. I have to remove the male as well and let the eggs hatch by itself as they were alone in a breeding tank. Managed to get 60+ juveniles. They are about 2.5cm now but recently about half were wiped out by some disease(bloated stomache). I am left with about 20+ juv now. Wish you good luck in breeding them. By the way they can survive in PH 6.0 water as I managed to acclimatised them. My tap water seems to have a PH of 6.5 and after water change the driftwood and plants in the tank bring it down to 6-6.2. Will be introducing them to my 4feet main tank soon.

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## stormhawk

Thanks for the tip. I was not expecting this strain to be more aggressive than the others. My tank has a pH of 6.8 and pretty soft water for some reason. Not that it matters, they seem to be showing intense colors these days. I think 2 of my normal Rams have formed a second pair in the same tank.

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## Adam_80

It's really tough to find electric blue balloon ram females. Anybody got it? Hearsay that supplier purposely refuse to let go females to monopolize breeding..

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## Adam_80

> Hi Stormhawk,
> I managed to breed EBR last year. Be careful after they have spawned, the male becomes very agressive. In fact it killed the female. I have to remove the male as well and let the eggs hatch by itself as they were alone in a breeding tank. Managed to get 60+ juveniles. They are about 2.5cm now but recently about half were wiped out by some disease(bloated stomache). I am left with about 20+ juv now. Wish you good luck in breeding them. By the way they can survive in PH 6.0 water as I managed to acclimatised them. My tap water seems to have a PH of 6.5 and after water change the driftwood and plants in the tank bring it down to 6-6.2. Will be introducing them to my 4feet main tank soon.


What were u feeding the ram fries? Bloated stomach sounds like internal infection to me... probably can find out the cause to prevent casualties from future breeding..

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## stormhawk

I did see a female EB Balloon Ram at C328, but that was a few weeks ago. The breeders cannot monopolize the strain for too long anyway.

Bad news on my end, lost one of the EBR females and the normal female. Neither had injuries on them and they did not spawn yet. I guess they had gill flukes or something else picked up when they were at the LFS. Treated the surviving EBR female and she laid eggs in the hospital tank...  :Knockout:

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## crabby:)

Hi,i have just gotten 3 balloon electric blue rams there is 1 male and 2 females they are mixed with a school of neon tetras and they seem a little shy when it comes to feeding time,but i have seen comments of them swimming to the top of the tank when they see their owner do i need to train them all will they swim up automatically,now they are seen swimming at the mid level of the tank and only eat from the ground how do i get them to eat from the top?thanks in advance,hope to get some geat answers :Smile:

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## LifeisBoring

I get what you mean, heres my suggestion. Change feeding habit (not sure if it works).

I do see my ram fighting for food with my blood parrot / pearl gourami /pleco whenever I feed them dry bloodworm 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=1.442502,103.787730

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## stormhawk

Once the Rams associate your presence with food, they will come forward when you are around. My Rams always come forward once they see me or anyone in my family. 

Sad news however, lost all 3 female Rams. Last surviving female Ram came down with a bacterial infection so I was treating her in a hospital tank. She actually laid eggs in that tank.. however, she did not survive the second day of treatment. I think I need to find other sources of female Rams, because getting a fish from C328 is like playing Russian roulette.

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## Luc Tango

Hey stormhawk, let me know if you see any. looking for some too. I wish some LFS will bring in wilds though.  :Neutral:

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## stormhawk

I don't think they'd bring in wild ones, but it's good to hope. The young Rams that I bought, out of the 3 males, 2 survived and they are showing signs of being German Blues. For $2 a fish I'm very happy.  :Grin: 

I'll keep you posted if I find any females.

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## Aquanoob

If you are interested in getting the normal German Blue Ram male and female, you can pm me for where I got them from. The pair I bought spawned within 4 days, and hopefully they are still available in the LFS. By the way, they are farm bred and not wild type. Have been asking a lot of LFS for the wild type, but the reply is always, " No stock".

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## Luc Tango

Hi Aquanoob, I saw that you got them from Tampines. Blk 82X one? (forgot the block number, only know how to walk there. lol)

I am actually thinking that JZX might be the best bet to bring in some wild rams. and maybe some wild apistogramma cacatuoides. (I just love those!)

Stormhawk, likewise, i will let you know if i spot any rams around. I am bad at sexing though so better for you to go down and have a look.

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## Aquanoob

Hi Luc, the one you mentioned is Golden Classic at blk 822, I got mine my blk 481 Superstar Aquarium. If you are going there, just said that you were introduce by someone who everytime asked about GBR and only buy GBR from him.  :Roll Eyes: 
I used to buy ram frim JZX before, but that was last year, since then, they did not bring in any more ram.

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## crabby:)

Thanks for the great replys,oh by the way if any of you guys are findind balllon rams why not give qian hu a try i have seen lots of them there :Smile: oh and 1 question,is it normal for them to fight as they keep on chasing each other especially the male

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## chansl

Go to superstar aquarium .. The boss is my friend, he always like to bring in rams .. I think he just bought in some new batch recently, i was there helping him to upload the fishes (free labor) from the supplier. haha

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## stormhawk

Rams are territorial as with every other cichlid, and will chase each other to create a pecking order in the tank. The strongest gets to feed first, followed by the rest.

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## crabby:)

Do you guys have any tips to advise me with taking care of balloon rams?thanks :Wink:

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## PKB

> Go to superstar aquarium .. The boss is my friend, he always like to bring in rams .. I think he just bought in some new batch recently, i was there helping him to upload the fishes (free labor) from the supplier. haha


The boss is a very nice person. Really take care of the fishes as well. His fishes are usually healthy.

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## Aquanoob

Yes, the boss Jacky is a nice young chap and his fish are house in clean and clear tanks, which is what I like. I don't mind paying a bit higher to get a healthy fish. As in my case, the German Blue Ram bought from him spawned with 4 days. 
Anyway, I went down to C328 today and there many type of Rams to choose from the 2 tanks beside the cashier: Electric Blue Ram (Balloon and Normal), a few pieces of Gold Ram and of course German Blue Ram (Normal and Balloon also). But there are also floating and sunken dead fish that I think have been dead for days. The Pleco, don't know what L-number, are having good meal over the dead bodies. There are a few nice coloured Ram but you really need to take the risk buying them.

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## chansl

Ya .. The boss Jacky even allow me to trade in those things i do not want for new things and a little add on .. Got my sulawesi tank with with nice LED tanks with my trade of one nano tank and one betta tank .. Nice guy ... He is selling his crs sss at only 8 dollar and cardinal at 4 dollar .. I thought it was pretty cheap .. So ordered from him and will see if the quality is good .. Will feedback to share =)

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## stormhawk

If you get Rams from any LFS, even respectable ones, please quarantine them. Some come with gill flukes infestations.

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## Luc Tango

Lol, this is getting out of topic.  :Neutral:  thanks bros for the heads up on Tampines 481 LFS. (I seldom travel to that part of Tampines as I live in the other side of it, 800+)

apologies Stormhawk for the short discussion.  :Smile:

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## stormhawk

No worries, all part of sharing info.  :Wink:  At least now people know this Jacky at the Tampines LFS is a nice guy to go to for Rams for the easterners.

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## stormhawk

The $2 Rams I bought have since blossomed into very nice GBR males:





Sorry for blurry photos, not easy to focus on this particular male.. he keeps moving all over the place chasing the other males. Found some females at C328 but they were very young, and the tank was not looking very good so I didn't get those.

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## stormhawk

Got another photo, this time of the other male:



I love his ventral fins, same length as the other male. Probably the best photo I took so far of any Rams that I ever had.

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## stormhawk

Some updates on the Rams:





Bought 3 GBR and 1 EBR female for my 4 male Rams in the tank last weekend after the GC killie event at C328.
The male and female in the pics spawned about 2 days ago but the eggs disappeared, probably eaten by them or the Corydoras in my tank.
Other male GBR seems to have paired up with the EBR female but I can't find the eggs even though they are guarding a particular area of the tank.

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## stormhawk

Finally, another spawn:



Eggs look viable. I hope they'll hatch successfully this time.

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## stormhawk

Day 2:

Eggs showing development. I can see the embryos forming within.

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## vannel

Ooo.. Nice. My GBRs in my office tank spawned last week and the fry are now in day 2 of the free swimming stage. Removed all other tank inhabitants except the male and the female ram. Should I also remove the 2 parents? They are still docile and have been keeping their fry close by sucking them into their mouths, then spitting them out nearer to the rest of the fry.

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## stormhawk

Leave them with the parents and some dither fish so that they got something to chase. Once the fry get a little bigger you can remove the parents.

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## stormhawk

Eggs finally hatched out after less than 36 hours post spawning, the parents moved them from their original pit to a nursery pit, freshly dug while I was asleep.



Not sure if you guys can make out the fry. They're right on the Sudo Sand surrounded by pieces of GEX soil.



Took another pic with flash, should be easier to see them.



The proud father guarding his brood. He wasn't too happy when I came close with my camera. Pardon the dirty glass, got some spot algae in that area.
Different female spawned with him. This time the guarding female was a much better parent than the original female that first spawned with the alpha male.




Video showing the motion of the fry in wriggler stage. Going to try and document their progress if all goes well. 
The fry should be free swimming within the next 2 days or so. Not many fry seen but I'm happy.  :Grin: 

On a side note, one of my Blue Apple Snails went over the eggs while they were still developing. I was expecting the snail to devour the eggs but it didn't! 
It just crawled over the eggs grazing on the grains of GEX soil and left the eggs alone.

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## Navanod

Congratulations Storm!
You sure am happy that day at C328!  :Smile: 

My wifey really liked the pair of balloon golden rams we had 4 years ago. I got suckered into getting them from a LFS at China town where the auntie told me that they're shrimp safe (I was a newbie then). Sadly, they ate my shrimps so I moved them to my office tank. They died a year later and I didn't dared to try keeping rams ever since.
I had since realized that I got a really mutated strain and I find the elongated GBR more appealing now. Am definitely going to feature them in a nice planted tank one day when I get my own place but for now, I can only drool at yours.  :drool 2: 
I wonder if they can be kept in a partition on my shrimp rack? Haha!

On a related note, you may be interested in something I came across while reading up on shrimps

Its on Page 14-16
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/reef_to_rainforest.aspx?eid=3b302677-b27e-4e79-8661-ca7c76c0f :drool 1: 8

Ignore the smiley. The link still works

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## stormhawk

Make your wife smile Don, get a pair of Rams like I did. She'll probably even let you extend your tanks.  ::smt047: 

They can be kept in a partition on your rack, but any shrimplets that do the Houdini into their section will become snacks. You'd have to make their partition fry proof too.

Thanks for the link man! Great read. That new Arowana from Myanmar is just beautiful. Going by that e-magazine, it seems one of my female Rams is an Emerald.

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## Navanod

May be better if I can convince the MIL to let me setup a ram tank at her house. Afterall, wifey seldom comes to see my shrimp tanks these days.

If the mesh can stop Houdini shrimplets, would it stop ram fries? I'm quite sure I can prefer any shrimps from becoming snacks now.

Yes! That new arowana is stunning. The intricate patterns had me staring at the pictures for awhile.
Emerald? The guy selectively bred it as a new variant. How did you get one? Hehe

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## stormhawk

Try your best then, perhaps your MIL will agree once she sees the beauty of these fishes.

It's possible that the mesh can stop the fry, they're just as small as newborn shrimplets, but I have never tried this before.

Beats me on the Emerald part. All I know is, 2 females out of the 4 I purchased that day at C328 have more shiny scales on the body than usual. What I originally feared were that these females could have hybrids born from crossing the typical Ram and the Bolivian Ram, because in the same tank, there were a few specimens that looked like Bolivian Rams.

Anyway, I lost most of the fry due to the digging activity of the Apple Snails. One of them dug into the crater where the fry were huddling in and buried several of them, or ate them, I'm not sure. I managed to save about 8 of them. They're close to free-swimming stage now in a separate nursery tub.

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## Navanod

I think I really need a revision on what kind of Rams there are out there in the LFSs...

Electric Blue
Bolivian
German
Wild
Golden

Emerald?

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## Blue Whale

Chilids wise possibily around 3000 different types. Africa alone host to 1600 species.

Ram wise, refer to here.
http://aquariumlore.blogspot.com/200...m-cichlid.html

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## stormhawk

Don your list is correct except that Bolivian Rams are a separate species. The guy who wrote the article says he bred the "Emerald" and "Brilliant" lines by crossing the EBR with his normal Rams. So if mine shows the phenotype for the "Brilliant" line as he puts it, that means the 2 specific females that I have are from crossings between the EBR and regular Rams or GBRs.

However, while I was at C328, the tank where I caught the females from had some specimens that looked suspiciously like typical Bolivian Rams, except much more colorful. I hope that the farms here did not attempt to cross the two species. 

It gets more confusing because there are apparently 2 forms sold as Bolivian. One is the true Bolivian and the other is called Mikrogeophagus sp. "Double Spot".

http://aqua-freshwater.blogspot.com/...-bolivian.html (one of the photos shows an insanely colored Bolivian male)
http://www.hippocampus-bildarchiv.co...DOUBLESPOT.jpg

The double spot differs from the Bolivian Ram in that it has a large blotch on the caudal peduncle, which is missing on the typical Bolivian Ram.

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## Navanod

Thanks for the link Blue Whale  :Wink: 

Storm, I even found some google results about people crossing rams with angelfish, so I'm not surprised  :Sad: 

The "double spots" looks like a cory crossed with a ram, yikes.
Is the insanely colored male the one at the "diet" section?

I think I still prefer German rams, mainly because I like the iridescence, the glittery spots on the fins and the vibrant colors! Argh...poison

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## Aquanoob

Navanod, just get the German Blue Ram and you will enjoy looking at them for hours everyday. And if given good food and water, they will spawn readily. I have about 18 3-weeks old fry right now and isolating the female and feeding high-protein food before putting back into the comm tank with the male.

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## stormhawk

Don, actually the bit regarding the crossing between Rams and Angelfish is not accurate. Some LFS in the USA was using that theory to explain the long-finned balloon Rams, especially those in gold, which are fairly common these days. I don't know how they got that idea given how different the Balloon form looks from a regular Angelfish.

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## ciaossu

Hey, JXZ have some WC ram just came in yesterday. those who are interested better get it fast, just got 4 from them  :Smile:

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## friend688

Hey 

Care to share where is JXZ? I wish to get some wild ram. How was the fries now? SMS me 96818811

Tam

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