# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  E Tenellus or APP plant

## BlessChwee

I have given up on hairgrass as it dont seem to spread due to my 3x2x2 tank and only got
4 tubes of 39t5ho. 

I am thinking to tear down and replant with either E tenellus or APP plant and wonder which is a better choice. 

I have called up c328 & y618 but they asked me what is the number of these 2 plants.

Can anyone tell me where to get these plants and how many pots for me to cover at least 50% of the tank (3x2x2)

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## Dodofish

I have never tried APP before. But E tenellus is very fast for me but I don't really like it.

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## BlessChwee

> I have never tried APP before. But E tenellus is very fast for me but I don't really like it.


Do you have strong lights and is it too messy that makes you didnt like it ?

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## Dodofish

> Do you have strong lights and is it too messy that makes you didnt like it ?


Yes my light is very strong then, should be around 5 watts per gallon.

It's not really messy, the looks of it is natural but I don't like the colors. There seems to be a dark line at the centre of each grass strain but I believe it maybe due to the chelate iron which I am using. When I got it, it was in emersed conditions and the color is very soothing.

It's worth a try, you can visit seaview if you want to buy it. I remember seeing some today.

But you probably want to wait for other bros to advise you because I remember seeing someone having very nice e tenullus. Maybe I screwed up my fertilizer regime?

Pygmy chain sword looks better to me.  :Smile: 

Do you have pressurized CO2 for your aquarium?

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## Urban Aquaria

Tenellus could be used as a carpet plant, but it grows to around 10-15cm tall so you'll get a tall jungle grass-like effect (if that's your layout plan). It likes to shoot long above-ground runners far across the substrate and grow new bunches which tend to intertwine with other plants, so you'll need to regularly trim those "rouge" runners to keep it within the designed areas of the tank.

Elatine Triandra (aka APP) would be good if you prefer a shorter carpet plant which creeps along the substrate, i find it easier to control.

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## BlessChwee

Thank you for all the replies and may I know where can I get APP as i intend to lay 50% of my 322 tank. 

I ever saw it at seaview but they are all rotten inside a cup so I didnt buy at that time. I have also called up c328 & y618 but they asked me for the order quote of APP plant, anyone knows ? 

By the way, I have failed in the japanese hairgrass despite having co2 at 3 bbs but I think probably not enough light due
to my 2 feet depth. I wonder if APP & Tenellus will be able to strive and spread otherwise I feel disappointing to carry on.

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## AQMS

Hi, 
yes you are right japanese hairgrass growing in a 322 is difficult because the of the 2feet depth you have.
Tenellus on the other hand will definitely grow like crazy,i know because i use to have it in my 322 but just like UA said
you need to regularly trim the rogue runners from running all over than tank. For the APP, i'm looking for it now for my new scape
if you happen to see do inform me  :Smile:

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## thebaldingaquarist

tenullus and APP are nice carpetting plants with low requirements.

i find that tenullus is easier to maintain. Don't like it, just pull.. the whole chain comes out. Like what other forummers mentioned, the runners does make a messy web, but so do other carpetting plants.

tenullus also has different hues. there are patches of mine that turn puplish or reddish due to strong lights. i find it to be a nice contrast.

APP is a fast carpetting plant that is neater. the "running" is more obvious and easier to prune. it does however.. float .. after the bottom tiers does not get enough light..

It is larger leaf-ed and more uniform in color. as opposed to thin, varied colored leaves from tenullus.

I last saw APP at seaview. if i am going today, i help you keep a look out.

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## BlessChwee

Thanks alot and I have ordered from Y618 and will be picking up tmr. 

I failed in the jpg despite having 8 hrs of light and co2 injection during photoperiod and they just dont seem to grow and spread runners.

I hope that this around APP will be successful otherwise my last try will be tenellus which I did managed to grow them at a corner when I first started my tank but I pulled all out for jpg. 

I have 4 tubes of 39t5 but probably going to change all the light tubes as they are almost 2 years old so any recommendation of which tube should I get and where can I get them ? I asked around the lfs and mostly are china make tubes and I saw someone mentioning that these tubes are not high lumen enough for the plants.

Lastly, is 4 tubes enough to cover my 3x2x2 tank and water level is around 3/4.

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## AQMS

APP should be no problem for your tank but the 2 years old tubes are. Usually 50% of the color spectrum is lost at the half-life of the bulb.
Usually planted tank tubes will last around 6 months after that period of time the intensity decreases subtly, this is known as cathode decay. 
To our eye the lights might look fine, but the diminished color spectrum can cause the natural biological photoreactions in the aquarium to deteriorate.

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## BlessChwee

> APP should be no problem for your tank but the 2 years old tubes are. Usually 50% of the color spectrum is lost at the half-life of the bulb.
> Usually planted tank tubes will last around 6 months after that period of time the intensity decreases subtly, this is known as cathode decay. 
> To our eye the lights might look fine, but the diminished color spectrum can cause the natural biological photoreactions in the aquarium to deteriorate.


thanks again, which type of tubes do you suggest and is osram T5 good enough. Beside NA selling, can I get them from any other places like normal electrical shop around neigbhourhood.

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## bennyc

Being a cheapskate, i have tried many light tubes. The cheap ones at Seaview are ok initially (i think odyssey, around $7 after 10% discount), but the light output decrease very fast, i think around 1~2 months you can see the drop in light output.

By the way they are odyssey T5HO 6500K. I have tried qiahhu aquazonic T5HO, slighty better but the light output do not last too long too.

I have also been hunting around neighbourhood electrical shop, the ones they are selling are using normal output T5 (osram/philip), and not T5HO (high output).

If i will to restart the fishtank life again. I will definitely buy LED lights. The high startup cost is a issue but i think overtime the longrun cost is comparable/ break even to T5.

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## BlessChwee

I have finally planted 5 pots of APP last night and hopefully it will be a success this round but I am going to change my tube soon so am thinking of getting the osram from NA as got quite good feedback from someone.

I called up Mr Chan and he told me that he has LED lightset but price wise is much lower than some which cost 500+ and can anyone advise if this is a better choice than my current aquazonic lightset with 2 x 39T5 tubes. Thinking of getting this to replace the old hopar lightset as the light is too far away from my tank.

Has anyone seen the LED light that NA is selling and any feedback is appreciated.

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## Urban Aquaria

I've not seen the particular LED lights that NA is selling, but generally for lightsets that use arrays of 0.06W, 0.2W and up to 0.5W LEDs, those would be more suitable for tanks up to 36cm height (can use for up to 45cm height tanks but their effective light intensity at substrate level might be abit low in taller tanks).

Those that use 1W LEDs would be okay for up to 45cm height tanks and the ones that use 3W LEDs would be suitable for tanks up to 60cm height or more.

The number of LEDs, overall wattage and light angles/coverage also matters so its best to check reviews on the various lightsets beforehand to find the ones that fit your requirements.

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## BlessChwee

> I've not seen the particular LED lights that NA is selling, but generally for lightsets that use arrays of 0.06W, 0.2W and up to 0.5W LEDs, those would be more suitable for tanks up to 36cm height (can use for up to 45cm height tanks but their effective light intensity at substrate level might be abit low in taller tanks).
> 
> Those that use 1W LEDs would be okay for up to 45cm height tanks and the ones that use 3W LEDs would be suitable for tanks up to 60cm height or more.
> 
> The number of LEDs, overall wattage and light angles/coverage also matters so its best to check reviews on the various lightsets beforehand to find the ones that fit your requirements.


Thank you for your advice, I have browse through the web and saw this ODYSSEA EVO Led 36" 72W (PLANT) which is 3w per led as you mentioned http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-e...ant-p-821.html. I wonder will one set be enough for my tank for the foreground plants and I will put another 2x39t5ho behind for the background plants which do not require as strong light as those foreground plants.

Anyway, I will see how the APP grow for the next few weeks before embarking if to spend so much to get this led lights or to save money just change to osram tube. 

One more question is that for T5 lightset, we can change the tubes ourselves after 6-9 mths but how about led lightset since it cost 4x if not more than an aquazonic or odyssea T5 lightset

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## tcg170980

I use http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-m...pcs-p-879.html on a low profile 3*1*1 feet tank. managed to grow HC/hair grass successfully and I hang it approximately1 feet above water level.
But your width/height is way taller/wider. you might want to check with east ocean if the light is sufficient.

The T5 plastic sheet which protect the bulbs tend to "blurred" . so checked that to ensure brightness is not compromise.

I know Maxspect led cluster can be changed at $50/pad (I think).

source around the shops and you can get good deals.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Thank you for your advice, I have browse through the web and saw this ODYSSEA EVO Led 36" 72W (PLANT) which is 3w per led as you mentioned http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-e...ant-p-821.html. I wonder will one set be enough for my tank for the foreground plants and I will put another 2x39t5ho behind for the background plants which do not require as strong light as those foreground plants.
> 
> Anyway, I will see how the APP grow for the next few weeks before embarking if to spend so much to get this led lights or to save money just change to osram tube. 
> 
> One more question is that for T5 lightset, we can change the tubes ourselves after 6-9 mths but how about led lightset since it cost 4x if not more than an aquazonic or odyssea T5 lightset


It depends on your planting layout, if your tank contains mostly low lying carpet plants and not much hardscape or taller plants blocking light getting to them, then one set may be sufficient. But if you have hardscape and various other taller plants arranged in the tank, then you may need 2 sets of lights positioned at the front and back to enhance coverage and prevent the lower plants from being overshadowed. Just have to plan it out.

Whether the LEDs in a LED lightset can be changed depends on the brand and model, usually for the cheaper mass market ones the LEDs are not made to be replaceable (unless you DIY replace the LEDs), but some of the more expensive higher-end brands and models feature replaceable LED modules so you could buy replacements and fix them easily. 

Though with the purported LED lifespan of around 50,000 hours, the lights could last 11+ years (at average 12 hours of usage a day) before they need to be changed... way longer than most people will keep their tanks running.  :Grin:

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## Phillipians

As I have an APP foreground, you must get ready to trim your foreground every week or so after its established. I have to trim half its height after every 7 days. But its way easier to maintain than tenellus...

Also, once you get maxspect razer you will never regret it. Its the best investment for my 2ft tank after my eheim 2217.

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## AQMS

> As I have an APP foreground, you must get ready to trim your foreground every week or so after its established. I have to trim half its height after every 7 days. But its way easier to maintain than tenellus...
> 
> Also, once you get maxspect razer you will never regret it. Its the best investment for my 2ft tank after my eheim 2217.


Bro, if you have extra APP sell me,im looking for it.. :Grin:

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## Phillipians

I can give you some. Its growing like mad. I can give a huge tub after every trimming. PM me your number. However, as I am giving it... you will have to travel down to my place at commonwealth MRT or my block downstairs if you drive.

I trim every Sat morning. So it can be collected in the morning. Alternatively if you have some other stuff like livestock or plants I would like to trade too. If not, giving you is fine. Rather than throw it away.

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## Phillipians

Available to the TS also if you want it.

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## BlessChwee

> Available to the TS also if you want it.


Hi thanks for your offer and too bad I have already gotten 5 pots from Y618 on Friday.

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## BlessChwee

> I can give you some. Its growing like mad. I can give a huge tub after every trimming. PM me your number. However, as I am giving it... you will have to travel down to my place at commonwealth MRT or my block downstairs if you drive.
> 
> I trim every Sat morning. So it can be collected in the morning. Alternatively if you have some other stuff like livestock or plants I would like to trade too. If not, giving you is fine. Rather than throw it away.


Is your tank 2 x 1.5 x 1.5 ? Mine is almost double width and height than yours thus cannot be sure that the APP will take off especially I am not using LED lights. Why do you say that tenellus is more troublesome to trim ?

Infact I really regretted getting this tank as it is quite a hassle to bend and maintain the tank which is more difficult than a normal 1.5ft depth tank. Moreover, I prefer more on foreground plants so growing all these is easier on the more shallow tank with normal t5 lights.

Can you post a picture of your tank with the APP ?

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## tcg170980

if transport is not a problem. both Teo and the farm in pasir ris( behind Irwana ) have App/tenellus.

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## AQMS

> Is your tank 2 x 1.5 x 1.5 ? Mine is almost double width and height than yours thus cannot be sure that the APP will take off especially I am not using LED lights. Why do you say that tenellus is more troublesome to trim ?
> 
> Infact I really regretted getting this tank as it is quite a hassle to bend and maintain the tank which is more difficult than a normal 1.5ft depth tank. Moreover, I prefer more on foreground plants so growing all these is easier on the more shallow tank with normal t5 lights.
> 
> Can you post a picture of your tank with the APP ?


I am using 322 too and i have no problem with APP before.
Yes i agree with you doing maintenance for a 2 feet deep tank is a hassle. 
can post your tank pic?

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## BlessChwee

> I am using 322 too and i have no problem with APP before.
> Yes i agree with you doing maintenance for a 2 feet deep tank is a hassle. 
> can post your tank pic?


Can you post a pic of your tank ? 

Yeah I should have gotten a lower depth tank easier for planting and trimming but now stuck with this so just 
try my best to grow some plants that I like.

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## Phillipians

Ok, I will attempt to post up a picture then. Will take one with my HP.

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## Phillipians

Hmmm, cannot seem to upload the file though..

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## Phillipians



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## Phillipians



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## Phillipians

As you can see, its a Maxspect Razer... and man do I love this lightset.

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## AQMS

Nice carpeting.....  :Well done:

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## BlessChwee

> As you can see, its a Maxspect Razer... and man do I love this lightset.


Nice and simple tank and mind pm me how much is yr maxspect razer led light and have you tried planting glosso and hairgrass under this light.

How long does the APP takes to form a carpet like yours.

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## thebaldingaquarist

Very very nice Phillipians! Well Done!

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## Dodofish

Very nice. Does any of you have a closer shot of app before trimming? 

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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## Ingen

Nice scape and nice light!

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## BlessChwee

> I am using 322 too and i have no problem with APP before.
> Yes i agree with you doing maintenance for a 2 feet deep tank is a hassle. 
> can post your tank pic?


Hi Zerofighter, can let me know what lighting you using when growing APP as now
mine seems to be melting  :Sad:

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## AQMS

> Hi Zerofighter, can let me know what lighting you using when growing APP as now
> mine seems to be melting


Im using led.Did you place your lights on a light bracket holder that sit about 10cm above the tank?
My tank is braced tank,so i rest my light on the braces,the distance between the lights and water surface
is about 10cm and my substrate is also about 10cm. These actually make the distance shorter for the light to penetrate.

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## BlessChwee

> Im using led.Did you place your lights on a light bracket holder that sit about 10cm above the tank?
> My tank is braced tank,so i rest my light on the braces,the distance between the lights and water surface
> is about 10cm and my substrate is also about 10cm. These actually make the distance shorter for the light to penetrate.


Mine is a braceless tank and I just measured and 2 tubes is 15 cm and the other 2 tubes is 25 cm above water SURFACE. Can I know how many led lights you have and which led lightset you using as I am thinking to get 1 set of this http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-e...ant-p-821.html to place infront. 

On top of this, do you dose fertilizers and I tried E.I Dosing previously for the hairgrass for 3-4 weeks and it turned out to be a total nightmare as the whole tank was flooded with green water  :Sad:  This makes me almost want to give up everything and left the tank without
light for weeks before I start again.

Would appreciate if anyone can share and guide me along how to use dry ferts.

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## AQMS

> Mine is a braceless tank and I just measured and 2 tubes is 15 cm and the other 2 tubes is 25 cm above water SURFACE. Can I know how many led lights you have and which led lightset you using as I am thinking to get 1 set of this http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-e...ant-p-821.html to place infront. 
> 
> On top of this, do you dose fertilizers and I tried E.I Dosing previously for the hairgrass for 3-4 weeks and it turned out to be a total nightmare as the whole tank was flooded with green water  This makes me almost want to give up everything and left the tank without
> light for weeks before I start again.
> 
> Would appreciate if anyone can share and guide me along how to use dry ferts.


I'm using led t5 tube,I DIY my own light fixture to accommodate up to 8 t5 led tubes and 4 AC fans.
Then i realise that 8 tubes is the perfect recipe for algae so i reduce it to 4 tubes. :Opps:  
For the led lamp from Odyssea, i dont have any opinion on that but it sure look better than my light set.
here is my set...



for dosing fert, i used a pre-mix dry fert, iron and KH2PO4.

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## Dodofish

> I'm using led t5 tube,I DIY my own light fixture to accommodate up to 8 t5 led tubes and 4 AC fans.
> Then i realise that 8 tubes is the perfect recipe for algae so i reduce it to 4 tubes. 
> For the led lamp from Odyssea, i dont have any opinion on that but it sure look better than my light set.
> here is my set...
> 
> 
> 
> for dosing fert, i used a pre-mix dry fert, iron and KH2PO4.


Your diy light is very nice. Is that made using wood?

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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## AQMS

yes,it is made of plywood covered with black plastic board.

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## BlessChwee

> I'm using led t5 tube,I DIY my own light fixture to accommodate up to 8 t5 led tubes and 4 AC fans.
> Then i realise that 8 tubes is the perfect recipe for algae so i reduce it to 4 tubes. 
> For the led lamp from Odyssea, i dont have any opinion on that but it sure look better than my light set.
> here is my set...
> 
> for dosing fert, i used a pre-mix dry fert, iron and KH2PO4.


Hi, thanks alot for your sharing and you are indeed a very good DIY person and your lightset is not anyway inferior to those
factory make.

Your mentioned about led tube and do you mean T5HO as I never heard there is any led tube before. If have, can advise
where can I buy and is it able to replace my current 39w tube ?

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## bennyc

http://www.inleds.com/tube-and-bars/ 
6500k is more suitable for planted.

But how about up z series?

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## bennyc

Just read from the 1st thread z series do not have the pentrating strenght.

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## Mookie

How should I ask fish shop ? Tell them APP can?

Btw can they do without Co2?

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## BlessChwee

I just called EOA and was told that they are expecting a new 3FT LED EVO lightset for 5w bulb so I suppose that it is
much stronger and penetrate deeper than the current 3w bulb.

If the price is not much difference or same so wouldnt it be better to get the new lightset with 5w for my 322 tank ?

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## Urban Aquaria

> I just called EOA and was told that they are expecting a new 3FT LED EVO lightset for 5w bulb so I suppose that it is
> much stronger and penetrate deeper than the current 3w bulb.
> 
> If the price is not much difference or same so wouldnt it be better to get the new lightset with 5w for my 322 tank ?


In theory, higher wattage individual LEDs would usually have better depth penetration, but how well it works overall would depend on the design of the lightset too (ie. spectrum mix, light spread and coverage, heat build up etc).

Since its a new model, if you do get a set... do post a review on it.  :Smile:

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## bennyc

Do read.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...d-lights/page3

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## bennyc

actually the 5w is in the market for quite sometime but no available in singapore. As odyssea evo are only brought in by EOA(local distributor).

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=37092853784#

I was convinced by david, razor are better, in terms of color rendition, and specs mention by urban. if you are getting from EOA, i believe the price will be quite close.

http://delightings.com/index.cfm?GPID=111

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## BlessChwee

> actually the 5w is in the market for quite sometime but no available in singapore. As odyssea evo are only brought in by EOA(local distributor).
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=37092853784#
> 
> I was convinced by david, razor are better, in terms of color rendition, and specs mention by urban. if you are getting from EOA, i believe the price will be quite close.
> 
> http://delightings.com/index.cfm?GPID=111


Hi Bennyc, so in the end did you diy or bought any led lights for your tank ? Any pic to share ?

I am quite keen in the new evo 5w led but it will only available at EOA after CNY and by then, think all my app are gone  :Sad:

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## bennyc

The project was put on hold, if not, i believe i will be in the position to better share with you my findings.

APP should be able to do emmerse growing 1st, while you wait for you lights.

if not there is always razor.... evil laugh...

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## BlessChwee

> The project was put on hold, if not, i believe i will be in the position to better share with you my findings.
> 
> APP should be able to do emmerse growing 1st, while you wait for you lights.
> 
> if not there is always razor.... evil laugh...


Oh ok so you did not setup any 3ft tank then, razor is above my budget as I intend to spend less than 250 for the light
since I already have 4 tubes of T5 currently.

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## bennyc

http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-m...pcs-p-879.html

3ft mhx is at $435, 5w will definitely be more expensive. 250 will not be able to get any led light needed for your tank specs unless you diy

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## BlessChwee

> http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-m...pcs-p-879.html
> 
> 3ft mhx is at $435, 5w will definitely be more expensive. 250 will not be able to get any led light needed for your tank specs unless you diy


No I am not getting the mhx but this http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-e...ant-p-821.html for the foreground plants

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## AQMS

> Hi, thanks alot for your sharing and you are indeed a very good DIY person and your lightset is not anyway inferior to those
> factory make.
> 
> Your mentioned about led tube and do you mean T5HO as I never heard there is any led tube before. If have, can advise
> where can I buy and is it able to replace my current 39w tube ?


T5 led tube you can get it at sim lim tower, but you need to know the specs.Like colour spec,lumen and wattage.
T5HO and T5 led are totally different so cant simply switch the lights tube one for one on your current light fixture.
Both uses different type of ballast.

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## AQMS

> I just called EOA and was told that they are expecting a new 3FT LED EVO lightset for 5w bulb so I suppose that it is
> much stronger and penetrate deeper than the current 3w bulb.
> 
> If the price is not much difference or same so wouldnt it be better to get the new lightset with 5w for my 322 tank ?


The 5watt, i bet will be expensive but if you can effort it why not? Is it dimmable?
Since you are interested in led,read this article to understand more how different lights work in an aquarium.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts...._lighting.html

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## bennyc

> No I am not getting the mhx but this http://www.eastoceansg.com/odyssea-e...ant-p-821.html for the foreground plants


Mhx is 4row, the one you planed to have is only 2 row of leds. Led is different from light tube. The light is uni direction unless there is lens added to it. So the 2 row might not be able to cover your entire 2ft width. You can raise the height of the light to cover a bigger area but it is at the expense of peneration/ intensity which might end up not able to have good amount of light hitting the substate level. So you are back to square one. 
Maybe you can achieve a balance with the 5w model, but it seems like currently no one is using so there is no review given on it. So you will become the "First Explorer"

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## bennyc

> The 5watt, i bet will be expensive but if you can effort it why not? Is it dimmable?
> Since you are interested in led,read this article to understand more how different lights work in an aquarium.
> http://www.americanaquariumproducts...._lighting.html


Mhx is mid level entry lights, not dimmable.
Razor is expensive or altas so it is dimmable. Haha

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## BlessChwee

> Mhx is 4row, the one you planed to have is only 2 row of leds. Led is different from light tube. The light is uni direction unless there is lens added to it. So the 2 row might not be able to cover your entire 2ft width. You can raise the height of the light to cover a bigger area but it is at the expense of peneration/ intensity which might end up not able to have good amount of light hitting the substate level. So you are back to square one. 
> Maybe you can achieve a balance with the 5w model, but it seems like currently no one is using so there is no review given on it. So you will become the "First Explorer"


Yes basically the evo led light is solely for the foreground plants and I will still put 2-4 tubes of T5HO to cover centre and back of tank. Currently I have only 4x39 T5 and they are old tubes above 1 year. Before I buy the evo led, I am intending to get 2 tubes of Osram T5 from NA and see how is the result first.

If the new tubes is able to grow foreground plants like app, hairgrass then I will halt my plan to get the led lights for now.

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## BlessChwee

By the way, I just happened to see this marsilea hirsuta http://www.myaquariumclub.com/marsil...lant-2271.html and has anyone has experience in this plant. Is this easier than APP & hairgrass which the article indicates that it is
a low light foreground plant.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, i was actually going to suggest just replacing new tubes for your lightset too... since with old tubes the actual light intensity might have probably dropped 50% or even lower after a year. Just changing to new tubes may already be sufficient to solve your lighting issues.  :Smile:

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## BlessChwee

> Yeah, i was actually going to suggest just replacing new tubes for your lightset too... since with old tubes the actual light intensity might have probably dropped 50% or even lower after a year. Just changing to new tubes may already be sufficient to solve your lighting issues.


I just went to NA yesterday and bought 2 tubes of Osram T5 and hopefully it will show some results soon.

I planted my APP on 17/1 and usually how many days will they turn to submerged and start to spread as I see some of
them melting and some floated.

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## Sleepy_lancs

Hey BlessChwee,

How much did it cost you for the Osram T5? Is it 3ft 39W High output?

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## BlessChwee

> Hey BlessChwee,
> 
> How much did it cost you for the Osram T5? Is it 3ft 39W High output?


I am not sure if it is high output and it is OSram 865 but I think should be. 

I got it at 15 per tube

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## felix_fx2

> I just went to NA yesterday and bought 2 tubes of Osram T5 and hopefully it will show some results soon.
> 
> I planted my APP on 17/1 and usually how many days will they turn to submerged and start to spread as I see some of
> them melting and some floated.


if you got inject co2 within 7 days see growth. depending on how many tubes you using, more tubes higher co2

t5 after 8 months to a year need replace. creeping plants do not do well at all for tubes more then a year old... 

Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11

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## BlessChwee

Sigh I think I have to officially declare that I have failed in growing APP again as I planted 5 pots and most melted if not floated and those left in substrate didnt spread any runners at all. Worst still, my tank got attack by green water again just like previously after I start to put in some dry ferts and only 2 times my tank turn slight cloudy and green.

Even the japonica is melting and did not see any sign of vibrant growth but I think the staurayone repens do grow abit.

On top of this, there are bga by the sides of the tank despite having a powerhead at the top to create water circulation.

All in all I am getting quite disappointed and hope someone can rekindle my faith and interest to proceed on zzzzzz

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## AQMS

I believe you already change your light tube, you are using 2 T5 tube,what is the wattage and the kelvin colour temperature?

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## felix_fx2

have the app that float grow new roots?

just to confirm, 2 feet tall tank???

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## BlessChwee

> I believe you already change your light tube, you are using 2 T5 tube,what is the wattage and the kelvin colour temperature?


The tubes are Osram T539HO and 6500k. I am thinking would it be due to my tank height of 2ft as I only got 2 new T5 and maybe for 2ft width will need 6 x 39w. 

Anyway, I am planning to plant Marsilea Hirsuta and hope it is easier than APP.

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## BlessChwee

> have the app that float grow new roots?
> 
> just to confirm, 2 feet tall tank???
> 
> Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11


Those that are floated do have some roots but the leaves are melted and yes, mine is a 322 tank.

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## felix_fx2

> Those that are floated do have some roots but the leaves are melted and yes, mine is a 322 tank.


got roots growing mean got growth.
some plants when you plant it in another environment then it was grown in... melt until the stalk.

Japonica so far, only see it slowly melt when not enough light.



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## BlessChwee

> got roots growing mean got growth.
> some plants when you plant it in another environment then it was grown in... melt until the stalk.
> 
> Japonica so far, only see it slowly melt when not enough light.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11


But I have planted them since 17/01 and now none of them are growing so should I just leave them there and adopt wait and see again. As for japonica, yes I also think probably my lights are not enough as I only got 2 new T5 and the other 2 tubes are older. I did not change all as I am still contemplating if to plunge in and spent a big hole to get the led lights later

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## felix_fx2

> But I have planted them since 17/01 and now none of them are growing so should I just leave them there and adopt wait and see again. As for japonica, yes I also think probably my lights are not enough as I only got 2 new T5 and the other 2 tubes are older. I did not change all as I am still contemplating if to plunge in and spent a big hole to get the led lights later


Got a good chance stunted.. due to light reasons.
Lets get another opinion, since i know how it feels changing 4 t5 tubes at one go feels... 
Unless your pocket in deep enough to bear such costs, just stick to T5 for sometime.

if you see my 2013 scape, i also found myself in denial that lights strong enough or not.. sometimes even if you have the gut feeling. You also don't want to admit hehe...

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## felix_fx2

Where you live?

You want Glosso i can give you.. took out a bunch as i replanted the whole foreground.
Got some limited space to farm APP so can't really offer you much.

Of course i am not quality plant provider, got some algae so you have to de-algae them...

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## BlessChwee

> Where you live?
> 
> You want Glosso i can give you.. took out a bunch as i replanted the whole foreground.
> Got some limited space to farm APP so can't really offer you much.
> 
> Of course i am not quality plant provider, got some algae so you have to de-algae them...


Bro I stay at Admiralty and I did tried glosso when I just got my tank 2 years ago and needless to say, failed and I tried hg and tenellus next which more or less able to grow because that time I got 6 tubes of T5 and 4 are new tubes. At that time I also see alot of pearling from my java plant and japonica but now only one or two tiny drop of bubbles from the tiger lotus.

Seriously I regretted not heeding an uncle advice from a lfs not to get 2ft height tank  :Sad:

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## felix_fx2

> Bro I stay at Admiralty and I did tried glosso when I just got my tank 2 years ago and needless to say, failed and I tried hg and tenellus next which more or less able to grow because that time I got 6 tubes of T5 and 4 are new tubes. At that time I also see alot of pearling from my java plant and japonica but now only one or two tiny drop of bubbles from the tiger lotus.
> 
> Seriously I regretted not heeding an uncle advice from a lfs not to get 2ft height tank


I only know MH and T5 (with lens) that are suited to deep tanks.

Ever consider to lower the water?

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## BlessChwee

> I only know MH and T5 (with lens) that are suited to deep tanks.
> 
> Ever consider to lower the water?


Yes I already lower my water 6-7" from the top.

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## Sleepy_lancs

My Friend,
Your 2ft height is not too high. I have done mine at the same high. Its working fine.  :Smile:  This hobby too much light is not a good idea... Anyway, your PM Message is full I can't respond to your PM... Please clear your messages  :Smile:

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## felix_fx2

> Yes I already lower my water 6-7" from the top.


then only can think of is that 2 old tube. you used to use 6 tubes in your 1st tank? 2 old + 2 new vs 6 new.. big difference.. 

IMHO, 2 old tubes good as not there sometimes.

sleepy is right about too much light sometimes not a good thing.


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## AQMS

You should try changing all new tube and see how the growth is.
Before i switch to led i used 4 t5ho on my 322 and it work just fine.
Can you post pics of your tank?

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## BlessChwee

Well, I am going to get another 2 new Osram tubes from NA this week and hope this solves the light problem.

However, now my tank is infected with BGA and green water (double whammy  :Sad:  ) and I did not had any green water during my first setup 2 years ago. Only after when I tore down everything and revamp my tank and start replanting again more problems cropped up.

I am not sure are all these due to the following factors -

1) dirty filter which I have not wash for more than 8 months
2) no fast growing plants to absorb nutrients as I got water sprite last time and they grow like weeds and cover my whole tank so frequently that needs maintainence very often as well as making my tank looks messy. This is one of the reason that I decided to tear down all and plant with simple foreground plants to make it neat and tidy. 
3) wrong dosing of dry ferts
4) water circulation should be ok since I got a powerhead at the side
5) not enough plant mass currently as ever since the APP melt or floated, almost 40% of the foreground are bare so substrate expose to 8 hours of light.

By the way, I am intending to plant tenellus and Marsilea Hirsuta to replace the APP soon. 

I am also thinking if to get a UV light to tackle the green water but is quite costly too.

Maybe I will get water sprite again this round and plant them at corner so any other suggestion or comments please.

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## BlessChwee

Here are some pics of my previous tank and I kinda miss it now 

P1.jpg

P2.jpg

P3.jpg

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## AQMS

After looking at your pics. i think you should remove the light bracket and rest the lights on the glass panel instead.
This will shorten the distance between the light and the substrate thus will give you better light intensity.
If you dont like the look,then spend a little of money on the wood cover or top cover,i dont know the exact name of it, i just 'hentam' only.
You check this link and you know what im talking about.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=487139

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## felix_fx2

your old tank nice.

filter go rinse the media can already. depend on media your using too, some media clog up over time... 

BTW, same light set?? 

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## BlessChwee

> After looking at your pics. i think you should remove the light bracket and rest the lights on the glass panel instead.
> This will shorten the distance between the light and the substrate thus will give you better light intensity.
> If you dont like the look,then spend a little of money on the wood cover or top cover,i dont know the exact name of it, i just 'hentam' only.
> You check this link and you know what im talking about.
> http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=487139


my lights must put on lightstand as mine is a braceless tank so nothing to rest upon. Ever though of getting the wooden hood but is not cheap plus I will not be keeping this fish tank for so many years probably another 2-3 years or so if I shift house. Till then, I intend to get a 3x1.5.1.8 ft tank and sell away this with cabinet.

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## BlessChwee

> your old tank nice.
> 
> filter go rinse the media can already. depend on media your using too, some media clog up over time... 
> 
> BTW, same light set?? 
> 
> Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11


Yes same lightset except that I hv change 2 Osram T5 and another 2 is odyssey T5. If you see, the aquazonic is nearer to the water whilst the hopar lightset is quite far away.

Sorry can tell me what is media, are those plastic balls and rings ?

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## felix_fx2

> Yes same lightset except that I hv change 2 Osram T5 and another 2 is odyssey T5. If you see, the aquazonic is nearer to the water whilst the hopar lightset is quite far away.
> 
> Sorry can tell me what is media, are those plastic balls and rings ?


hopar can take out stand and rest on tank. hopefully it helps..

yup, bio media... the balls are normally referred as bio balls. those ring are ceramic rings aka CR.

ehiem also make some, think is called substrate pro. 

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## BlessChwee

> hopar can take out stand and rest on tank. hopefully it helps..
> 
> yup, bio media... the balls are normally referred as bio balls. those ring are ceramic rings aka CR.
> 
> ehiem also make some, think is called substrate pro. 
> 
> Sent from GT-N7105 powered by Temasek CM11


haha the hopar light is exactly 3 feet and will drop inside the water if push a little bit.

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## felix_fx2

> haha the hopar light is exactly 3 feet and will drop inside the water if push a little bit.


whoa! that will be a big oops...
guess you have limited choices...



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## Sleepy_lancs

Dont give up. It's still a nice tank. Just too much fast growing plants disappear in a short time so things will happen. As for light source after you changed the tubes, I think its still plenty of light so you don't have to worry about it. Fix your eyes on CO2 and maintain the dosing that I provided you. Should be okay. You may get more GSA as what I would expect but it will not be that unsightly. Follow the regime of weekly water change and watch it for 2 weeks before we can conclude the outcome.

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## AQMS

Hi, how is your tank? have you figure a way to lower the light fixtures?

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