# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  Netting trip to FRIM.

## itssg

After few times postponed. Robby and i able to get to FRIM - Forest Research Institute Malaysia. 13th March 2005. 10:00am is a good timing and good weather for us to have a trip there.

Once we reached the main door after get lost in the highway. RM3 per car per person. (If one more person inside the car, then gonna pay rm1 extra.)

From the main entrance to the nearby water fall is around 2-3KM. (We were thinking of walking in.) Once nearby the waterfall. There are hundred of people there. They are picnic, cycling, jogging, having fun inside the pond and water fall.

We just can't wait and park the car...then run over to the staircase like below picture. Honestly, this is not a nice staircase to step on.



While walking up, Robby saw an attracting lizard. It is just not scare of us. It won't move if we are not getting our hand near to it.

From the picture hardly tell the color of the lizard. But it is in metalic red and gold color. After us, there are 2 guys shotting the pictures of it.

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## itssg

There is a water fall from the end of sky going down to the earth. We were trying out luck to check out some mosses on the rock and tree. Then stop at the water fall which just near to the staircase.



While i was taking some pictures of ferns. Robby found some fishes inside a small space of the pond. We were spent almost an hour to catch 2 of them. Forgotten to take their picture. They are in silver color on body. Yellow color of tail and fins. Look like small size of "Kelah".

Check out the color of the fern. It showing some metalic blue color. I didn't take any. Just love it hanging out there.




There are some other fern growing on rock and wood.


It should be nice for the vivarium or paludarium setup.

We can't really have luck here. Just found some dry mosses growing on the rock.

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## itssg

After the end of the staircase, we found some nice plants which is very nice for my paludarium setup. Tons of them growing on the "wall"...(A big rock which just next to the staircase.)


Robby was helping me took some of them. We seal in plastic bag and continue to the deeper of the jungle.

Just after we packed the plants. We raises up our head and saw this moss (Peat moss?) growing on the tree. I look into some other trees. Found almost all the tree near that area growing with this kind of moss. After the pictures, we took some and keep it tight in plastic bag.

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## hwchoy

I thought you aren't supposed to take any plants or animals from FRIM?  :Confused:

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## Piscesgirl

Beautiful pictures -- Those rocks looked like they'd be great in an aquascape.

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## RRG

The plant that looks like a taro (the leaves with red veins at the center) I think is poisonous. If you have pets or small children, beware that they might eat them. That plant is readily available at stores selling plants. They have lots of variety to choose from and its also more colorful than what you found.

If I was at your country I would love to join hiking with you guys. It looks fun.

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## kimco

> I thought you aren't supposed to take any plants or animals from FRIM?


Actually you are right and it is stated in the ticket but over here, enforcement is very lax  :Rolling Eyes:  especially if it involve something as insignificant as mosses!!!  :Shocked:  

Just go to any of our numerous virgin jungle parks and you'll see much garbage littered all over and I've been to plenty in my monthly Hash Run  :Evil:  

Cheers,

KG

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## itssg

My internet connection was disconnected and unable to get it back. There are some pictures going to post.

Yes. We were not surpose to take anything. But when you saw the people picnic, catching fishes, pee, shitting there. Soon or later all the plants or animals going to die. So, why not?

Cont...

After the "Peat moss", we continue to go further in. And we found there are different type of mosses growing on tree roots and rocks.

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## itssg

Saw rubbish everywhere. feel uncomfortable. Lucky, i bring along my own plastic bag and keep my own rubbish. So you guys, pls remember don't simply throw the rubbish.
We just take a very little amount of mosses n plants.




This mosses really look like a Christmas tree. It is growing like a leaf. then another leaf is just 1cm away.

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## itssg

Robby found this very cute n nice look mushroom. (we didnt take...)  :Opps:  


Then we found some mosses growing on tree root.

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## itssg

Just under the tree root. I found this small scorpian. It was look like never eat for days. Very small and slim. But it is moving... I place it back after taken the picture.

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## itssg

Rushing in office. I can't remember much on tht day. But we did spoke to one of the security guard after he found us taking the pictures and plants. First he was disallow us to take and asking us to put back the plants. I told him we are from Malaysia Aquatic Plants Association. We just taking a bit for some research. So, he said...fine and go ahead. But dont take so many. So happy... but next time must writing in a formal letter.

This is another mosses we found.

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## itssg

And yes...this is the Monosolenium Tenerum i found on a big piece of wood. The wood is soaking in the water.


Beside that, I found some nice fern growing on the tree.

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## itssg

Just before we decided to go back. Robby found this Bolbitis look fern growing on a big rock wall. The water running from top to the bottom of the rock. So, this "bolbitis" can be consider half emersed and half submersed. While we just taking a small leaf to check through. A big piece of "bolbitis" just drop in front of us. Then the security guard said. just take...(so happy...but this is the last plant we discovered.)

I was keeping it in a pail. Just around 10 minutes. Some of the leaves which above the water level getting dry. The rest inside the water still looking fine. There is no direct sun lighting shotting on it. Anyway, i just placed them into my tank after washed. It is already 3 days. I can see they are bubbling and some small leaves coming out.





We are not so sure what plants or mosses we got. Just hope some other experts help to verify. I won't go there without any black and white next time.

Thank you Robby for your time and expertise on the Photoshop to enlarge the pictures.

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## aphy

As it clearly states, this is a Reserve Forest. The attitude of "just because others are doing it, the heck with it!" is what makes nature the way it is today. It's about taking responsibility and doing your part to preserve the flora and fauna to be passed on to the next generation.

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## itssg

> As it clearly states, this is a Reserve Forest. The attitude of "just because others are doing it, the heck with it!" is what makes nature the way it is today. It's about taking responsibility and doing your part to preserve the flora and fauna to be passed on to the next generation.


It is Forest RESEARCH institute centre. Not the RESERVE. And I didnt see anything said it is RESERVED. The other not taking off the plants. but they just DESTROYING them.

And there is no one into mosses research in Malaysia. This is what i found from FRIM - Horticulture and nursery. Dr. Aminah. She advising me to write in black and white. Then she will assign her team members to me and assisting me. And I am going to do that.

I believe most of the members in here. They will just take some of the mosses or plants if they saw in any jungle. Eventhough that is RESERVED forest.

aphy, i hope you are not into planted tank. Because most of the aquaitc farm having their plants from the RESERVED forest. And this is what i found when i paid a visit to the aquatic plants farm. If you are buying from any lfs. That's mean you are indirectly taking the plants from forest as well.

And please don't hide behind your nick.

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## ayahpin2

cis... bedebah, betul...

just join this forum and c this kinda thing. tell u guys the truth i hate pretentious malaysians. budak aphy, u said malaysian 'wot the heck attitude' r not acceptable. but do u tau, everyone including me n u r doing it even without realising it? so jangan be, hypocrite. i say lebih baik the moss taken to tanks... got more chance they survive than ppl throwing and polluting rubbish around the park.

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## budak

so is it better then that everybody who wants a piece of the moss take a chunk home til it all runs out?

(anyone knows what is a rhetorical questions?)

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## ayahpin2

im not sayin everyone do like that. that's why its a research centre. but if u wanna argue at that perspective, then evryone is guilty, lar. where is those plant u have in ur tank originate from? i just wanna make my point why pretentious people are hypocrite. if you r 101% pure nak save nature kinda person i would not argue wif u. but kita all sudah tak nature friendly u know and i would salute who can admit it. all i can c is, attitude nak glamour.

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## itssg

budak,

I am not just go in the jungle and taking off all of them. I am just took a little bit. Yes. A little bit, the size is smaller than yr thumb. I do hope I can discover something new and share with everyone. Otherwise, I don't think anyone will do that. Perhaps, another 10-20 years only have a team form up to do the research.

I just hope you guys can focus on the pictures which we taken. Something you guys may not see in your country.

I will go there again and will still doing what i want. But, i won't share with you guys. since none of you guys appreciate. Those who interested into this. Please pm me.

Thank you guys for the comments.

Cheers,
dom

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## itssg

sorry. repeat post.

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## kimco

Hey, come on guys, this thread is sounding too much like some of the other forums that I frequented and is now staying away from, precisely because of this attitudes.

Lets keep it clean, friendly, Singlish/Maglish and sms free and stay to the topic at hand and not spoil all the fun................... PLEASE!!!!!!!

Another thing, do keep childish attitudes at home and not display them for the whole world to see.  :Rolling Eyes:  

Thanks again,

Cheers,

KG

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## ayahpin2

ok ok... sorry, lar brother. english is not used to. but dont you think right? i just proving my point people now just pretend pretend only. no need to pretend lar. i malaysian too, is just the kulture like that. you think you can escape but you can't. so i admit myself. i try to be good but is just so limit one malaysian can be so pure and say other doing bad. i think is bullshit.

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## RRG

This is getting out of control. PLEASE before anyone make their first post, read the rules of this forum. We have the rules for a reason and this is what happen if we don't follow them. And please refrain from using vulgar words, it's quite tasteless.

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## budak

Simplistic 'either or' views are not helpful in this issue. I am concerned about the risk of overharvesting from nature (although I don't think most of our aquatic plants, except for hydrilla, some crypts and anubias and those rarer Amazonian species, come directly from the wild - the vast majority appear to originate from farmed populations). At the same time, treating nature as supremely inviolable isn't quite an ideal situation either, especially when one compares the case whereby people know the live value and can exploit (in hopefully a modest and sustainable way) the species in an ecosystem, compared to the clearing of a swamp or jungle for other 'development' purposes simply because no alternate means of deriving value or utility from that habitat is possible. 

On a more practical note, if I am not wrong, Malaysia's park/forestry system designates certain areas as National Parks (e.g. Endau Rompin, Taman Negara, Tasik Bera....), while other patches are protected as "forest reserves". Apart from it being legally questionable (despite bo-chup guards) I would think it's right to respect the creatures and plants living in these areas of high biodiversity concentrations, and enjoy them where they are, taking nothing but photos. Correct me if I am wrong, but outside the reserves and parks, there isn't any specific rule saying you can't catch fish or pick up plants/rocks. And despite all the concretising of West Malaysia, there ARE still a good number of locales where interesting and rich fauna/flora can be seen, and collected. Ending here, I leave it to the individual to decide if his or her pratice is sustainable. But it is disingenuous to say that just because everybody does it, there's no point in voicing out against unthinking collection. One cannot abdicate individual responsibility by citing collective sentiments.

_Tolong lah kawan-kawan. Bukan semua peminat di sini faham lingo Bahasa. Dan janganlah lupa bersopan. [i/]_

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## timebomb

Well, what do you know? - our very first flame war  :Laughing: 

Okay, fellas, I have to ask all of you to back off a little. State your opinions but please try to be polite. I don't know Dom very well but I met him when I was in Malaysia. He's crazy over aquatic plants, that's for sure but I don't believe he's the type who will go around plundering the nature reserves. But Budak and Choy were right to voice their concerns as all of us should help to protect what's left in this little planet we call home. Around these parts, many people won't think twice about taking plants and fishes from nature. That's the culture but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change it. I'm realistic so I know it's useless to tell people not to take anything from nature. The temptation is too great, especially when one comes across a plant or a fish that isn't available in the fish shops. So I would say, if you have to take, take only what you can't find in the fish shops and take as little as possible. Whatever you do, do not plunder. 

As for those who post in Singlish, Maglish or sms short forms, I have to remind you that isn't allowed here. If you persist in using such language, you run the risk of being the first ever forum user to get kicked out of this forum.

In recent weeks, many Malaysians have joined in the discussions here. We welcome their input but please understand that this is an international-based forum. Here we have hobbyists who come from many different countries. We want all of you to stay and have a good time but that can only come about if you write in a language everyone can understand. We also hope that you will use a real name in your posts. The reasons, as you can see from what's happening to this thread, are obvious. Anonymous posters tend to shoot off their mouths without thinking, thereby creating flame wars. 

Personally, I've always believed that if there's something you want to say on the internet, you should be brave enough to put down your name. If you don't dare do that, then I would strongly suggest you don't post at all.

Loh K L

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## keehoe

Hey guys, cool it wouldn't you. First of all, let me say a few word as Malaysian. 

Beside having different culture, Malaysia/ Singapore faces different challenges when it comes to natural reserve. Commercial logging is clearing away heckers of jungle land every year and whatever Dominic took is just a tips of an iceberg. 

In Malaysia, even if everyone go jungle bring back a big piece of moss of the size of their own head, has little impact on the overall jungle development. This is completely different case in big city like Singapore.
Try publish in newspaper that that 1kg of natural moss worth one dollar and you will see the whole bukit timah jungle being over turn the next day.

I don't think the amount of plants taken is really an issue here but the intention. I think it is perfectly OK if those are not meant to be for commercial use. As long as it is for hobby, general interest or conservation purpose and you are not touching whatever listed as "endangered species", it is ok. In Malaysia, the land is too big for government to effectively preserve all the natural floral and fauna in the forest. The only way to make sure the any plant survive is to take it first before it fall into the wrong hand. 

I have been tracking source of killie fish lately. Realise a lot of the species besides being "pure", it also does not comes with any code. One of the reason my supplier told me is: Researcher pay collector to go into the jungle/ river whatever to find the species that they want and the collector never bother document down the details.

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## shortman

Guys/Gals,

It has been a very long time since I last login here due to lots of work and commitment. 

Everyone have his/her rights to speak up what he/she think but please make sure it is to share and constructive.

It is alright to take from the mother nature but one must consider to return back to mother nature.

Cheers

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## bettawalk

Take they reduce and those you took perish is a bad thing , but if you take and you manage them well , thats ok . 

Personaly , emm was that leagal ?

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## keehoe

[shortman remove]Make no sense here.

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## aphy

Thank you Choy, Budak, Loh, Ayahpin and Dom for your comments. Please understand that this was merely my opinion as Budak and Loh had also pointed out that overharvesting will cause an extinction in nature. 

There's no need to get sensitive over this as everyone is entitled to their opinions. We are not trying to be pretentious or holier than thou attitude. They are well aware that littering is also not permitted in the reserve area but they still do it. Does this mean that it's acceptable? Similar point applies here. 
I've not heard of the Malaysian Aquatic Plants Association, is it a new setup?

Yes temptation can be great I agree, but if we can't take a leash on our greed who will? 

And just for the records, I wasn't hiding behind a nickname. Just forgot to sign off. 

CY LIM

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## itssg

Hi CY Lim, yes. I just formed it last year. There are over hundred members in my list. Around 50+ of them are acive members. The rest of them don't really into this cyber forum. It is not yet an official registered club.

I am a hobbyst. I am crazy into plants or aquatic plants. I started to have my first plant when I was just 5 years old. My mom teaching me a lot about the flowers and other plants. Sometime, i will just take the flowers or plants beside the road. For what?? Of couse I wanna keep it and growing it. But I won't take all of them. Just 1 or 2 is enough. But if there is just only 1 or 2. Then i will let it be. Won't spoil the beauty of nature.

Like KL Loh said, I just can't control myself not to take. I believe you guys will take some if you found you are surrounding my mosses and other aquatic plants. And honestly, there are very exotic to me. Especially the mosses. I am not taking back a whole tree or rock. Just 1/3 size of my thumb. I am not taking it to sell to anyone. I am not making any profit from it. Just for my own research and hope to share with all of you guys in here.

Anyway, I will go there again with official permit. I will take the pictures, post in here and send some samples to Loh again. Is that fine with you guys?

I believe Loh is very excited now. Hahaha...Due to my post and caused a war. Take it easy guys. It is great to know ayah pin and bettawalk those from Malaysia in here.

Ok ok...peace. No war! Please comments and verify the mosses and plants in the pictures. Loh, do you have any idea or have you saw the mosses in my pictures before?

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## timebomb

> Loh, do you have any idea or have you saw the mosses in my pictures before?


It's kind of hard to tell from pics but I believe some of the mosses you saw are quite common in Singapore too. Dom, I would suggest that you be a bit more selective when you go hunting for mosses. There's little point in taking the terrestrial mosses as chances are they won't live in our tanks. Look out for those that are underwater or growing on the rocks found on the sides of streams. These mosses have a better chance of surviving in our tanks.




> Yes temptation can be great I agree, but if we can't take a leash on our greed who will?


Lim, someone, I think it was Oscar Wilde, once said, "I can resist anything but temptation"  :Laughing:  I was just trying to be realistic. Of course, it would be great if we all do like what the good guys always say, "Take nothing but photographs; leave nothing but footprints" but I think it's highly unrealistic to expect such good behaviour from everyone. The world wouldn't be such a messy place if we all can so easily put a leash on our temptations  :Laughing:  

Loh K L

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## hwchoy

quite agree with you Mr timebomb. if subzero were such a prude we wouldn't have named the Singapore moss and probably may not find out about the misnaming of Java moss  :Exclamation:  and certainly not the discovery of the 17th species of _Fissidens_ sp. in Singapore  :Cool:

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## keehoe

Shortman, hope you enjoy that. <---- this post doesn't make sense also. To you at least.

[shortman] you know what you are doing in angry.
[shortman] you have been kick from this posting.
[shortman] don't try to be funny.

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## stormhawk

Kee Hoe, I don't quite understand what you mean. Yes it is just the tip of the iceberg with illegal logging going on even in protected areas. I keep seeing large areas of forest being cleared to make way for oil palm plantations. Its very disturbing but I guess the need to make money blinds the eye to the loss of forests.  :Sad: 

I understand that everyone has an innate urge to take something, especially if it was something exotic. One thing I learnt is that if you do remove something from nature, take only a little amount and go on from there. Photograph it for the record and try to propagate it. In that way you have a clear pictorial representation of a plant species.

Again I must thank Dominic and Robby for having shown us the pictures of things we may never see in our lifetime. =D>

Since the forest was very much open to visitors, it was only time before someone comes along to harvest the moss as he/she sees fit. We cannot control the human urge to have something new. What Dominic did may have caused some people to flare up unnecessarily. While taking something from nature, especially protected places, seems illegal, small samples of a naturally abundant plant looks OK to me. If a small patch is taken, the patch will regrow. If a large patch was ripped off by irresponsible people, then that may have spelt doom for the plants. 

Dominic, it is good that you are going to contact the people at FRIM to do research on mosses. That's the best way to go about collecting plants legally. If the samples you took are for propagation in the home aquarium, do so with the intent to finally spread it around to others. In this way everyone gains. You get to learn more about the plants, then others get to get something new.  :Very Happy: 

When I do return to Malacca in the future, I'll visit the Ayer Keroh forest to see and photograph plants if I deem necessary. While living in my uncle's house at Jasin, I saw some mosses growing near a small creek just behind my uncle's house. Did not collect any as I was unprepared to transport live samples all the way home.

As for Ayahpin, perhaps the generalisation of the Malaysian attitude by Aphy may have offended you but she has her right to state their view. When you use vulgar words to show your contempt for her views you only reinforce the generalisation that she had mentioned. 

Use Malay in a proper manner rather to use it to scold someone on an English-based forum. It irks me to have someone use Malay in a very offensive tone. Being a Malay-speaker myself, I feel the "budi bahasa" in your post has been lacking. Please, be nicer in the future. Thank you.

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## itssg

Yes Loh. I will pay more attention on the river side or somewhere near to the river.

Ok guys and girls. No more arguement ok? This gonna take years to argue about this issue. Just sit down and enjoy the picture ok?

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## clem

What an interesting trip to FRIM. I've been there before, but I have not notice there are so many different kind of moss or plant to see. Out of curiosity, have you successfully converted the "moss" you got on land into underwater? Could you show the picture if any? Thanks.  :Very Happy:

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## itssg

Clem, please specify your name. Otherwise, other members can't really know who you are and where are you from.

Btw, most of the terrestrial mosses are in my paludarium. Doing very well. The bolbitis look fern in my 6 feet. Monosolenium Tenerum and some mini moss doing well too.

Just come over to my place when you are free.

Cheeres,
dom

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## clem

O! Sure! 

Your half water half dry 6 feet tank ok already? I will pay you a visit when I am nearby your area.  :Smile:

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## clem

BTW, what camera you use to take such a close up?

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## itssg

I am using Olympus mju410. The other one using by robby is canon if i am not mistaken.

That is paludarium. I done on my 4feet. Instead of 6 feet.

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## clem

Good move!!! Your six feet tank is too high up. You need to get yourself in it to really plant. Your 4 feet tank location is just nice. You can move anything you want anytime you want. Tindakan yang arif.  :Wink:

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## ayahpin2

ok ok... I'm just stating my views here, afterall it's a free country. First of all my name is Haris Ismail. I was doing a search on the internet on FRIM and somehow ended up at this forum. Sorry I didn't managed to read the rules before posting as I was agitated and just want to point out my views. You can say I'm an old man with nothing to do in his free time. I don't know this hobby you guys are discussing in this forum, I just want my opinion to be heard as I have become disappointed with a lot of public people polluting things in any park. Here is my niece translating in 'good' Queen's English so everyone is happy.

Randall: I don't quite get what you mean I'm using vulgar words here. If you're definition of vulgar is of language or words expressed by common people than you are right. I am a common person. I don't hide and pretend. I don't need to. As I am is what I am. I'm a village common person.

Budak: You're comment is too deep for people like me to digest. But I roughly get what's the point you're trying to say. You write here you're sick and tired of nappy rash, have you seen non biodegrable used unwrapped nappy floating down the 'reserve' river? Have you seen, muddy coloured foam accumulating among the water plants near the banks? Have you seen styrofoam lunch boxes and some stray pieces of clothing littered among the rocks? If you have seen the amount I've seen in the parks you will know why I'm standing my point (plants have more survival rate in a hobbyist tank). Sorry to do this again folks but it's to quote back Budak.

Ya, kawan, anda tidak payah menghina saya dengan menguna bahasa putih yang canggih.

For those who more or less seeing my point of view: Yes, I may be pessimist. But it's just my views. Thanx for the honest views. 

Aphy: Littering is not acceptable, yes. Everyone knows that in any country. The perspective here is if one is sayin 'no no' to one person while he/she commits something else just as bad. Here's the example: Mr Dom took some plants. People are alarmed he's destroyin nature. But the 'people', goes back home and do little things that contributes to the destruction on nature that they aren't aware off. So before anyone get alarmed, why don't stop and think what have you done lately to mother nature. Yes, this is a very controversial issue. My point is, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Stormhawk: Again the definition of vulgar. It irks you isn't it? Just as the earlier posts irks me. Anyway I have clarify the reasons. But then again it's an expression used everyday without much concern. One man's meat is another's poison. No offence.

Here's something to ponder. If one preach to be 'enviromentalish', what have you done so far than just 'talk and point fingers' rather than pack up your bags and do something for the enviroment.

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## budak

Haris,

In plain language, I don't understand how you can think that just because some people are littering and spoiling the environment, we can't question or discuss the ethics of collecting from the wild. Neither are you fair in assuming that the people here don't know or don't do anything on their part in nature conservation or awareness. "Kurang ajar", "I will report you!" and other compliments are kind words I have heard from people who think they have the right to do with nature as they wish. 

Modern man has an undeniable ecological impact (through the resources we consume and the waste we generate). Pretty much the bulk of many countries' (e.g. Malaysia's) lands and waters are already given over to human needs. What I should like to stress is that some thought and care be given to the way the remaining nature areas is used or exploited. We Malaysians are all too often guilty of a tidak-apa attitude, believing that since damage is already done, there's no point harping about further harm. Such logic allows one to forego responsibility and defeat the efforts of those who do want to help the cause.

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## Martian

Great job in posting the pictures there Dom. I was waiting for them until I managed to find my way here today. Am shocked to find ppl airing their personal opinion of how others should conduct themselves.

Anyway, I'm curious about the bolbitis that you've collected. It does looks every bit like the bolbitis that I've kept before but my question is, isn't bolbitis supposed to be from Africa (hence the name african fern)? I'm surprised that we can find bolbitis here.

It's good that you and a good number of hobbyst are venturing into the unknown. That's the reason that we are able to enjoy the variety of aquatic plants that I'm spoiled for choice everytime I want to setup another tank. I didn't see anyone condemning Mr. Amano for venturing into Borneo, Amazon and many other jungles collecting flora and fauna.

Rgds,
Isaac

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## PohSan

To Moderators,
Please delete away all the unrelevant posts, include this post in this thread. It was totally out of topic.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

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## stormhawk

Haris, I feel you've done your bit in stating your case but there's really no need to take Budak's signature or his post out of context. I really didn't see how his English could have been offensive to you to the point that it came across as insulting your intelligence.

Yes, probably the expressions you used earlier were used in everyday life with very little consequence but that is when you banter around with friends and family. But using those terms against people you barely know can come across as being very offensive to them. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I just shot off a malicious statement meant to inflame your anger.

You said you are common village person and there's no need to hide that fact. True, but have you thought how you would be perceived if you attacked someone verbally without thinking of how they would feel?

We must however understand that each person has his/her own views and there isn't one singular view that is perfectly correct or without flaws.

I know the littering problem is always around. I've seen it happen even in the houses of my relatives in Melaka but as long as it remains an accepted practice that littering is OK to most people then it will always remain. Here in Singapore the act of littering comes with a hefty fine and even a community work order to make them become cleaners for a day. Perhaps its the fines that keep people in check but littering still occurs every now and then in Singapore. I'm not saying that the practice is different per country but as long as the mindset is not switched to practising good rubbish disposal policies then people will almost always revert to being litter bugs.

Give your fellow Malaysians time to adapt to the changes in society. Perhaps some are litterbugs but there's always some good ones around. Not every single apple is a rotten one. Take pride in the fact that there are several people out there who are taking a stand against this problem in the parks and forests. Relax a little and you'll feel much better.  :Wink: 

I know of some people who say they're environmentalists and conservationists but they don't help out when a species is going into extinction. Some can't even keep their pets alive.  :Confused:

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## budak

The genus Bolbitis occurs in both Asia and Africa. There is even one species (Bolbitis xsingaporeansis) which was once found only in Singapore, but is now extinct. The most commonly found Asian species is B. heteroclita, which has non-pinnate, tri-lobed leaves. Most other regional Bolbitis species are purely terrestrial ferns though. What Dom collected is a type of fern known as a filmy fern, which lives by waterfalls and streams. I can't remember the genera (starts with 'H'), but they are not known to survive for long underwater. Humid paludariums should be fine. 

Isaac, we all have our right to our opinions and to air it. Sometimes, one may voice out concern about another's conduct, and the one addressed may of course defend or assess his or her act. I don't think the posts in this thread should be deleted (moved perhaps to the ChitChat section if the mods deem it fit). Too often, a debate that can plough through simplistic stances and shed light on why people think the way they do is avoided simply because of fear of giving offence. Worse, if one fears to voice out despite tugging consciences.

----------


## stormhawk

> Anyway, I'm curious about the bolbitis that you've collected. It does looks every bit like the bolbitis that I've kept before but my question is, isn't bolbitis supposed to be from Africa (hence the name african fern)? I'm surprised that we can find bolbitis here.


There is a species of Bolbitis native to the region called _Bolbitis heteroclita_ I think.

----------


## timebomb

> To Moderators,
> Please delete away all the unrelevant posts, include this post in this thread. It was totally out of topic.


Thanks for your concern, Poh San but as far as I'm concerned, none of the posts here in this thread will be deleted. The fact that we have very strict rules on the language used and the fact that we're always exhorting all forum users to put down their real names in their posts may make us (the moderators) seem like a group of people who tolerate no nonsense. But the truth is we believe everyone has a right to express his or her opinions, even though the opinions expressed are sometimes out-of-topic. 

In order to have true freedom of speech, we have to learn to live with a bit of nonsense. Freedom of speech is such you allow the other guy to have his say, even if what he says goes against the grain of your beliefs.

Loh K L

----------


## timebomb

> ok ok... I'm just stating my views here, afterall it's a free country. First of all my name is Haris Ismail. I was doing a search on the internet on FRIM and somehow ended up at this forum. Sorry I didn't managed to read the rules before posting as I was agitated and just want to point out my views. You can say I'm an old man with nothing to do in his free time. I don't know this hobby you guys are discussing in this forum, I just want my opinion to be heard as I have become disappointed with a lot of public people polluting things in any park. Here is my niece translating in 'good' Queen's English so everyone is happy.


Well, Haris Ismail, thanks for letting us know your real name. Let me be the first to welcome you to this forum, even if it was by accident that you found us. More often than not, people who register themselves here assumed that the culture here is no different from other forums. This creates a lot of work for the moderators here as we have to constantly remind new users to write in proper English and spell correctly. Don't get us wrong. We don't insist on perfect English but we hope everyone will make an effort to make their posts comprehensible to others. 

If you're not already in the hobby, you don't know what you're missing. We're into aquaria. The folks here either love fish or aquatic plants. Many, like me, love both. 

We can understand how you feel about being disappointed by public littering. I think more damage is done to nature reserves by the things people bring in rather than the things they take out. 




> Here's something to ponder. If one preach to be 'enviromentalish', what have you done so far than just 'talk and point fingers' rather than pack up your bags and do something for the enviroment.


I have to confess I'm not much of an environmentalist but I know for a fact that Budak cares and do a lot for the environment. I have seen his letters in the press where he writes of protecting the natural biodiversity of our nature reserves. As for pointing fingers, I don't think he did anything of that sort here in this thread but if anyone has the right to point fingers, Budak is the man. He has done much more to create awareness of environmental issues than the average guy. 

If only I can persuade him to put down his real name in his posts  :Laughing: 

Loh K L

----------


## RRG

> The genus Bolbitis occurs in both Asia and Africa. There is even one species (Bolbitis xsingaporeansis) which was once found only in Singapore, but is now extinct. The most commonly found Asian species is B. heteroclita, which has non-pinnate, tri-lobed leaves. Most other regional Bolbitis species are purely terrestrial ferns though. What Dom collected is a type of fern known as a filmy fern, which lives by waterfalls and streams. I can't remember the genera (starts with 'H'), but they are not known to survive for long underwater. Humid paludariums should be fine.


No wonder this plants keep dying on me. I asked one of the employee at my LFS selling this plant if this is true aquatic plant, and of course they quickly said yes. At first this plants is green in my tank and a couple months later the leaves turns black and breaks apart. My first clue should have been the roots. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the true aquatic Bolbitis has a root similar to Java Ferns.

----------


## stormhawk

I think I might know the genus of fern that Budak has mentioned.

The one we usually see in aquaria.. but happens to be a terrestrial fern would be one of the _Trichomanes_ species.

The one that Dominic found at FRIM is most probably one of the _Hymenophyllum_ species. I'm not sure which one but it could probably be _H. demissum_.



Photo from Hiddenforest.co.nz

----------


## Martian

Thanks for your reply in regard to Bolbitis. I guess it's just a matter of time before we know if the one collected by Dom is indeed another aquatic fern.

----------


## stormhawk

For that plant to be positively identified it would require the help of an expert in ferns.

Dominic, perhaps you can contact Dr Aminah from the insitute to help you out? A proper ID may help in knowing captive conditions for this species by comparison with related fern species already kept by hobbyists.

The mushroom may not be a mushroom but rather some other specialised plant. I saw this succulent plant at Ronnie's home the other day. It does resemble the mushroom you photographed in form but it isn't one.

----------


## budak

The metallic blue fern is a species of Selaginella, a genus closely related to ferns, but having the misleading common name of club-mosses. Some species are often wrongly sold as aquatic plants. 

I can't say I know my mosses, but suspect you found no peat mosses there. Especially on trees. Peat mosses tend to be ground-dwelling wetland plants. Also, it's probably highly unlikely that mosses found in non-flood prone (esp hilly) areas will have aquatic forms. Not impossible, but I think it's becoming a curious trend whereby people are taking every moss and expecting it to be the next Erect/Weeping/Xmas moss.

The colourful plant with the heart-shaped leaves looks like a Caladium sp. It's related to the taros (same family), but Caladiums are native to South America, not Asia. If you go into the jungles, you can probably find native aroids (Alocasias, Colocasias, Aglaoenemas....). Anubias and Cryptocorynes are also part of the aroid family.

----------


## stormhawk

If that plant is a Caladium sp. and since they're native to South America, aren't those introduced plants there? 

The worst thing that can happen in a forest is to have alien species proliferate at the expense of native species.

Dominic, if this plant really isn't native to Malaysia then you just did a favour to the environment by removing it for use in your paludarium.  :Laughing:

----------


## stormhawk

Budak, the need to find something new to excite the minds of hobbyists blurs the line between finding something new to grow and finding something new to sell.

While there would be those out there who collect these mosses to make a fast buck there will also be those who collect these as a passion and an attempt at captive propagation of a species.  :Smile:

----------


## itssg

Great. This is the response which I hope to read through. At least, I know the plants name which what i saw.

Different people have different opinion. I just want to share all about what i found in FRIM. I am still waiting the reply from FRIM - Dr.Aminah. Hoping she will giving me some good news.

Cheers,
dom

----------


## hwchoy

> The metallic blue fern is a species of Selaginella, a genus closely related to ferns, but having the misleading common name of club-mosses. Some species are often wrongly sold as aquatic plants.


I was having a walk in Bk Timah Nature Reserve last Dec with Peter Chua and friends, and we noticed a variant of this _Selaginella_ sp. lacking in the blue pigmentation. It was supposed to be unusual as the blue pigmentation helps the plant trap and use green light filtered through the canopy.

----------


## elmike

Here comes Mr Chit-Chat!  :Laughing:   :Laughing:  ......

Several years back, I spotted a wayward baby birds nest fern growing by the wayside near my workplace. The problem was I had to walk pass it 6 days a week on my way home from work. And as the days went by, it somehow grew on me that I must have it or I would die from just craving for it.  :Laughing:  I wasnt sure if it was alright to take it, but I did it all the same, at last. I had to stoop so low to uproot it. :P But in return, I showered upon it lots of TLC and 3 years on, it has blossomed and takes the pride of place in my balcony. I later had the chance to speak with the gardener in charge of the vicinity from which I adopted the fern. He told me that he would just rip off anything thats not part of the approved plants/ landscape. 

So, was I a plunderer or saviour to the baby fern? Use your brain. :P 

And going back 10 yrs earlier, my wife and I colluded to pluck some overgrown arrow heads from the ground near our workplace (Now you know why its very dangerous to have husbands and wives working in the same place?  :Laughing:  ). But we knew that any runaway growth will be pruned without mercy and discarded by the gardener. So we got a bunch or two home and propagated it. It grew from 1 to 3 pots. I gave a pot to my mother-in-law who, in turn, propagated it and gave a bunch to her neighbour. Dispersal can only be good as it enhances survival of the species.

Do not forget than human beings remain an important vehicle for plant dispersal and propagation. Nonetheless, unless you have written permission, the No Collection rule at Nature Reserves should be observed. But taking some wayward plant or something thats overgrown from the ground is quite a different matter and may have my approval under certain circumstances (no-mans land only). Use your discretion. What is the likely fate of the excess or wayward growth if left alone? After all, for these small-time collectors, isnt it the love of nature that prompts them to do what they do? We can only hope that this fledgling natural spark would mature into greater awareness for the conservation of nature at large. For me, its A small theft for mankind, a giant step for nature. Taking an overly legalistic stance may not be the way to go.

Anyway, those were the early days before Plant Corners sprang up at the supermarkets and more variety of plants became readily available for sale. Nowadays, I prefer to buy rather than take from the ground. I wont dare to hazard another such attempt, even if its for the greater good. The truth is, Im too afraid of being caught by some no stealing from nature guardian lurking out there.  :Laughing:

----------


## keehoe

I really think that Natural Researve is an education on attitude. More than rule and regulation on Action. Those with bad attitude will remain bad no matter what "Action" he made. Those with good attitude will take the plant and distribute around  :Laughing:  . 

Would you send me some if you manage to culture them please?

----------


## budak

A quick addendum to mike: my own indoor garden boasts a number of plants that were 'picked up' by the wayside. Periodically I find pieces of plants (orchid stems, money plants, good luck plants...) lying on the ground or grass around the block. With some TLC, they grow back into potted beauties. 

choy, I am sure there's plenty of variation amongst that Selaginella tribe. And pray tell what were YOU fellows doing up in the hill? just walking?  ::smt079:   ::smt117:

----------


## itssg

aphy aka cy lim aka pauline. Why dare not to tell me you are pauline? Instead of telling my you are cy lim? hahaha... i believe you are the one who doing the same with me to the nature of mother all the time.

Please don't tell you are not. I know, you know and those went with you also know.

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## stormhawk

> choy, I am sure there's plenty of variation amongst that Selaginella tribe. And pray tell what were YOU fellows doing up in the hill? just walking?


Probably searching for the proverbial pot of gold.  :Laughing:  

But seriously speaking, if Dr Chua was around I bet they would be looking for a new stream to have a look at.  :Wink:  

Choy, probably the fern was an oddball species? If it was then it might have been a new species.  :Think:

----------


## aphy

Good Dom, since you know (I've no doubt you'll be making checks anyway) but that's fine. Let's not argue like you said, after all was just a matter of opinion. If we harp on the issue, we'll never make progress, agreed? So long as the tiny bit you took is well cared for and propogated to reach the other hobbyists later, it's a noble thing to do.

Still not sure what you meant on that mother nature thing which everyone seems to be aware of. 

CY LIM

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## itssg

haha...I am not the moderator or administrator of this forum. How to check? But the way you posting, i can have a good guess. So, CY Lim...such a stranger name to me in the first place. I was thought who is this coward and dare not to show the name.

You know what I am talking about. You are taking plants and fishes from the mother of nature as well.

I know there are different opinion or mindset from different people. I am not mad at all. Comments, opinions and suggestions from other people helping me to get myself improved. At least, there are some stress coming to me and made myself to contact FRIM personally.

----------


## itssg

Found this 'mini moss' was growing very near to the monolenium tenerum. You guys can see...it is really a small piece i took. (saw the snail on it?) Actually, there are few big pieces of this moss growing on the wood. But all them are very mini size. (The whole piece of wood are 90% soaking in the water which I can really move it at all.)

Sorry about the blur pic. Once it grow nicer, I will take the picture again.

Currently in my office nano tank. With temperature of 20C.

p/s: Rand, this is yr favourite!

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## aphy

Dom,

I hope you got your information from the right resources. Catching wild betta, yes I've done that once with my friends at a peat swamp. Aquatic plants, never. 

Thought it would be a nice change to have a nickname since I'm involved in killie fish now. CY LIM is my name and so is Pauline. Heheheh, didn't think you'd be stressed out. Truce ok? You are doing a noble thing like I've mentioned for the Aquatic plants hobby. Just keep that up!  :Smile:  

CY LIM

----------


## RRG

> Found this 'mini moss' was growing very near to the monolenium tenerum. You guys can see...it is really a small piece i took. (saw the snail on it?) Actually, there are few big pieces of this moss growing on the wood. But all them are very mini size. (The whole piece of wood are 90% soaking in the water which I can really move it at all.)
> 
> Sorry about the blur pic. Once it grow nicer, I will take the picture again.
> 
> Currently in my office nano tank. With temperature of 20C.
> 
> p/s: Rand, this is yr favourite!


I'm looking forward to see another pictures. Good luck growing that plants!  :Very Happy:

----------


## ayahpin2

> I don't understand how you can think that just because some people are littering and spoiling the environment, we can't question or discuss the ethics of collecting from the wild.


Budak:Im looking at a bigger picture.




> True, but have you thought how you would be perceived if you attacked someone verbally without thinking of how they would feel?


Stormhawk: I guess is a chain reaction. Maybe you should direct the question to Aphy as she made a remarked without thinking how other feels. She's not using malicious words and therefore it's acceptable? Like you say it's an individuals' own views, for me, I'm disturbed by what she had remarked, to me that is disturbing and as a reflex I reacted to it. I agree with what you said to budak where the line blurs between finding something new to grow and finding something new to sell. I know you guys are hobbyist that's why I'm angry when another hobbyist tries to make another feel guilty when he took some plants.

Timebomb: Thanks for being a understanding person. I wish others could see your worldly views. I agree with you on the fact that people are doing more damaged with the things they bring in rather by the things they bring out. This is what I'm trying to tell the people here. I would respect your judgement on Budak, if he's really into the environment, then good for him. I didn't say he point fingers at anyone, I'm referring to a poster before said who had aggravated me.

Elmike: Yes, my kind of thinking. Dispersal can be good as it enhances survival of species. I like your quote A small theft for mankind, a giant step for nature.

What do you know. I just discover at the end of the thread, the firestarter had been 'guilty' before for 'taking fish from nature'. Folks, you see what I mean by pretentious and hypocrite. Aphy, if you were half as concern for nature of Budak (according to Timebomb) I would have given you a chance. Now I know you are no angel. So please next time, think (guna otak) before you comment on others. Words could hurt others even if it's not malicious.

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## stormhawk

Thank you Haris for the reply. I believe we should end the ruckus here at this point. Pauline has already handed out the olive branch so everyone else should reciprocate her gesture.  :Wink: 

Now back to the actual discussion, the ID of the plants. If anyone has a tentative or a positive ID, any leads, links, pictures of similar or related plants please post your reply here. A civil discussion on the plant species that Robby and Dominic photographed and/or collected would be highly appreciated.  ::smt023:

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## stormhawk

Dominic, do you happen to have a picture of the two small fish you caught in the small stream/pond? I might have an idea as to what it is.  :Wink:

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## itssg

Hi Stormhawk,

After read your post. I quicky focus my camera to the tank. (It is just next to where i am sitting now.) Tried for 30 minutes. Able to get a clearer picture.



Any idea what is this fish?

----------


## stormhawk

Does it look like the fish above? If yes then it is indeed a juvenile Kelah, aka _Tor tambroides_. If not then maybe one of the other _Tor_ species. I cannot make out the ID.

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## itssg

Stormhawk,

Mine is not so huge. The color is very silver. Mouth shorter. Heard a member who always went for netting said it is 'Cucumber fish'. It is under Kelah family also.

I saw there are a school of them. But they swim too fast. Spent 30 minutes and able to get 2 of them. They are now happy and living harmony with my rainbow and congo.

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## Pah

It is a big fish. It can grow to about 60 cm or more.
I have a shoal of this fish in my pond.

Not recommend for planted tank.

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## itssg

Hi Pah,

Nice to see your post in here. I think you better specidy your name under your post. Otherwise, it is hard for others to remember who you are.

Currently 2 of them I am having is around 3inch+. It they grown to 6inch. I will release them back to where i caught them. By the way, I caught few pieces of shrimp also. They are look like ghost shrimp. But with 2 big claw. After days I released them into my 6 feet tank. All of their claw gone. Just dont know what happen to their claw. But saw they using few of their small claw to clean my algae and some dirts on the leaves.

The color of their color turning into reddish and 1 of them turning into green. I will try to get their picture tonight.

----------


## stormhawk

Dominic, in that case then it might be a young Barbonymus or a Cyclocheilichthys. One of the large Cyprinids. A sharp picture would be necessary for a positive ID.  :Wink:

----------


## Pah

Watch out Dom!

They can catch fish for supper.

Those big claws (relative to its size) are crayfish.

People are confusing when calling shrimp and crayfish/lobster.

Shrimps got small claws and cannot be harmful to fish but this is not the case for crayfish. Lobsters are saltwater creatures while crayfish are freshwater.

Yes, crayfish do eat plant and algae besides their favorite food--fish.

Cheers,

Pah

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## itssg

Hi Pah,

They are not the size of Lobster. They are size of Yamato shrimp. Very small. (hope they are not the crayfish like what you said.)

----------


## hwchoy

> Originally Posted by budak
> 
> choy, I am sure there's plenty of variation amongst that Selaginella tribe. And pray tell what were YOU fellows doing up in the hill? just walking?  
> 
> 
> Probably searching for the proverbial pot of gold.  
> 
> But seriously speaking, if Dr Chua was around I bet they would be looking for a new stream to have a look at.  
> 
> Choy, probably the fern was an oddball species? If it was then it might have been a new species.



we went for a hike and to visit Peter's friend Kheng Soon who lives right next to the reserve. took pics here and there, and KS pointed out this fern which is green, which should normally be blue. Apparently green is a rare variety.

yes, later we did walk around to look into ponds  :Smile:

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## jerryC

Stormhawk,

Your photo shows more likely of a Tengas than a Kelah. Both falls under the Tor family.


Dom,

I do notice that you have been posting pictures and your findings in various forums. This is I assume your way of sharing knowledge and gathering opinions. Therefore be prepare for both positive and negative feedbacks. If you are hoping for only positive feedback the refrain from posting in open forum but instead have a website on your own. 

I'm not kicking you but this is the fact in ANY internet forum.

jerryC

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## stormhawk

Hello Jerry, that picture was taken off a Japanese website that identified it as _Tor tambroides_ or Kelah in native Malay language.

If it does look like Tengas, which I'm not sure of its species, then perhaps that website may have made a mistake.

----------


## itssg

Hi Jerry,

I had lot of flame war in the forums before. I know how to handle. This time, I didn't say much. I am still doing what I wanna do. None of you guys can stop me. Personally, I am feeling that is good enough for those who appreciate what i am sharing.

I believe Pauline just wanna pulling my legs. I am fine with it. Beside that, I had sent out what I had from FRIM to other members. Btw, I am still trying out the way of packing Pelia. Still it will melt easily.

I was invited by the other forum members and their moderators to sharing the picture and stories.

Cheers,
Dom

----------


## jerryC

Dom,

Good on you!

----------


## itssg

Good news. I just received a call from Dr.Saw who was introduced by Dr. Aminah frm FRIM. (Dr.Saw said he is good friend of Prof. Tan from Singapore.)

Dr.Saw is going to UK for 10 days next week. After he is back to Malaysia. He will teaching me on how to collect the mosses and how to keeping them in proper condition without "hurting" to them. And there are some facilities and equipments which I can be used in FRIM as well.

----------


## Martian

Dom...

When are you meeting Dr.Saw? If you dont mind, I want to tag along. Let me know please.

Btw...how's the bolbitis look alike plant doing? YT told me it doesn't look like bolbitis, probably in the same family. Please update if you are having good results with the mosses and plants collected. Maybe we can consult Dr. Saw in identifying that as well.

Thanks.

Rgds,
Isaac

----------


## jerryC

Dom,

It is getting very difficult to guess your photos and have to opt for further imagination to really guess what you are try to illustrate over your photographs. You should invest in a tripot to improve your shots since you have wobbly hands.

----------


## RRG

> Good news. I just received a call from Dr.Saw who was introduced by Dr. Aminah frm FRIM. (Dr.Saw said he is good friend of Prof. Tan from Singapore.)
> 
> Dr.Saw is going to UK for 10 days next week. After he is back to Malaysia. He will teaching me on how to collect the mosses and how to keeping them in proper condition without "hurting" to them. And there are some facilities and equipments which I can be used in FRIM as well.


That is a great news, Dom. Record what you learn and share it with us  :Wink:  .

----------


## itssg

Hi Isaac,

Here is the email received from Dr.Saw. I will get you know about the date and time if i am going to meet him up.

Dear Dominic,

Many thanks for you message. It is great that we have amateurs like you
taking up interest in mosses. As mentioned over the phone, Prof. Haji
Mohamad of University Malaya, his email : *(removed)* AS I
mentioned to you over the phone I am about to go overseas and when I
return I can try and give you a letter for you to collect in FRIM. Call
me in about two weeks' time and remind me on this.

Best wishes,

Leng Guan



Jerry,
Some of pictures was taken by Robby. The photoshop thingy also from Robby. I do appreciate what he is doing for the picture. I do have tripot, but just seldom use. If you can't see it clear. Perhaps, it is time for you to get a pair of spec. Or else, borrow me your superb camera. :P 

Cheers,
dom

----------


## jerryC

Dom,

do you always take suggestion negatively???? There is a term called Constructive Critism, have you heard about it? 

BTW, a bad blured photo is a blured photo, no matter how much touch up done in PS it is still blur. 

Again, this posting has 2 meanings, it all depends on how you understand it.

----------


## itssg

Hey Jerry,

I am taking whatever advices, suggestions and comments. No matter it is negative or possitive. The pictures was taken by me and robby. We are not the professional photographer as you. If you want to see it clearly. Then you can have your own trip to FRIM. Whatever pictures we taken. We are already tried our best.

Anyway, there are more pictures coming soon when meeting up with those professors and doctors in the lab of FRIM.

Btw, you are out of topic again.

----------


## jerryC

Dom

For the matter of fact I'm staying at the topic of you posting a rock with moss and snail that is difficult to visualise. AND I'm certainly not comparing your shots with mine.

Slog a tripod with you the next time you go to frim to take picture!!!!

----------


## itssg

Jerry,

Thank you for your comments. I won't bring any tripot or extra thing to go FRIM. Because I would like to spend more time in aquatic plants collection. Instead of just taking pictures.

Regards,
dom

----------


## jerryC

Dom,

Whatever it pleases you. You will consider the tripod if you are seriously want to share your pictorial experience!  :Confused:

----------


## hwchoy

> Dom,
> 
> Whatever it pleases you. You will consider the tripod if you are seriously want to share your pictorial experience!


I prefer to use flash, and possibly a monopod. tripod is rather cumbersome out in the woods.

----------


## hwchoy

one of the reason I prefer flash in forest photography is to provide a source of white light. if you use ambient lighting there may be a strong cast (green usually) because of the filtered light, unless that is the effect you are trying to achieve. for documenting subjects in the forest, flash is best, but you need to be armed with the appropriate softbox and reflectors, especially if you are trying to get in REALLY REALLY close like mosses and insects. also must watch the exposure and metering control.

----------


## FC

Hi Jerry and Dom,

I learnt something about photo-taking from your exchanges. I think photo taking is an interesting part of such trip and is relevant to the topic. However, we should not go any further than here, otherwise, it would become a topic for photography which would be good to be had in the Chill-Out Corner.

Thank you and have fun.

----------


## jerryC

FC,

I think it is a great idea to exchange photography idea in the chill out section. HWChoy, let's talk there.

----------


## itssg

> Originally Posted by dom
> 
> Good news. I just received a call from Dr.Saw who was introduced by Dr. Aminah frm FRIM. (Dr.Saw said he is good friend of Prof. Tan from Singapore.)
> 
> Dr.Saw is going to UK for 10 days next week. After he is back to Malaysia. He will teaching me on how to collect the mosses and how to keeping them in proper condition without "hurting" to them. And there are some facilities and equipments which I can be used in FRIM as well.
> 
> 
> That is a great news, Dom. Record what you learn and share it with us  .


Hi Randall,

I was missed your reply. Sorry about that. Of couse i will share with you guys. No matter how or who still coming in and stepping on me again. I believe none of the hobbyst done that before in Malaysia. (As Dr.Saw told me I am the first person who into this and might be able to help them out on some wild aquatic plants collection in FRIM.)

He did told me they are having an aquarium which with few type of mosses in their lab. Hope I can get some pictures to share with you guys later on.

Cheers,
dom

----------


## hwchoy

dom, have you seen the aquatic moss paper posted here somewhere, written by Prof Benito Tan of NUS?

----------


## itssg

> dom, have you seen the aquatic moss paper posted here somewhere, written by Prof Benito Tan of NUS?


Hi Choy,
Is it the moss article?

Recently there are lot of farms and hobbyst collecting the wild cryptocorynes from rivers. Like Cryptocoryne "Bullosa" (Sorry if i spelling wrongly.) Cryptocoryne Cordata and Undulata. The funny thing is, the farm workers don't know the actual name of the plants which they collected. One of my member saw and helping them to verify.

They taking it, propagating it... and selling it. Without proper record and name.

----------


## hwchoy

yes the one that talks about Christmas moss, Singapore moss, etc etc etc.

btw scientific names are written with the specific name NEVER capitalised e.g. _Cryptocoryne cordata_ not _Cryptocoryne Cordata_.

----------


## RRG

> btw scientific names are written with the specific name NEVER capitalised e.g. _Cryptocoryne cordata_ not _Cryptocoryne Cordata_.


I did not know that, thanks for the tip...I'll keep that in mind whenever I have to write scientific names.

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## hwchoy

> Originally Posted by hwchoy
> 
> btw scientific names are written with the specific name NEVER capitalised e.g. _Cryptocoryne cordata_ not _Cryptocoryne Cordata_.
> 
> 
> I did not know that, thanks for the tip...I'll keep that in mind whenever I have to write scientific names.


no problem Randall  :Smile:  having them italicised make it look even more scientific  :Wink:

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## itssg

Hi Choy,

I didn't know that too. Thanks for the tips. Will keep that in mind.

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## hwchoy

> Hi Choy,
> 
> I didn't know that too. Thanks for the tips. Will keep that in mind.



sure thing. we all learn something new everyday  :Smile:

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