# General > Member's Lounge > Nature and Conservation >  Why do this??

## budak

I received the following email from National Parks. It speaks for itself.

- - - - - - - - - - - - 

Dear Volunteers,

I want to share a piece of news with you, but it was a terrible and sad
one.

Yesterday. an adult colugo (flying lemur) with a baby was being shot down
and mishandled by a group of men at Petai Trail, MacRitchie. The mother
colugo suffered severe fractures and had to be put down to sleep after
being sent to the zoo. The baby is now in our care- hopefully it will
survive without its mother.

Aaron, a nature photographer, who was at the scene had posted some of his
pictures here:

http://www.naturephotosociety.org.sg...ID2/574.html#1

According to witnesses, the culprits are 3 Chinese men aged between 40-50.
They were speaking in Hokkien and behaved aggressively. Apparently, they
have come prepared for this "hunting trip" with sling-shots and bags. They
escaped in different directions as the crowd gathered to intervene.

If you happen to come across any suspicious people in the forest, please do
not hesistate to call us at 64685736 or the police at 999.

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## Quixotic

*shake head* Hope that the baby survives.

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## ranmasatome

i wanna tie them to a tree and shoot slingshots at them till they bleed..!!! ergh!!! so infuriating!!! A COLUGO SOMEMORE!!!! they better dont come across me in the reserves... rangers wont know which to save first.

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## hwchoy

tie to tree and apply honey.

actually should be jailable offence right. if cruelty to cats go to jail, then killing animals in the reserve should also go to jail.

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## juggler

That's bad.  :Crying:  

I saw the documentary "Life of Mammals" by Sir David Attenborough.
In one sequence, there was some mammal gliding so beautifully from tree to tree. I wonder if that was the "Flying Lemur"?

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## GaspingGurami

People, 

I share your disdain for such selfish acts on our precious little fauna. However, I'd like to caution against over reacting and attacking people you see in our forests who do such things. Better to call the police, and trail them from a safe distance (keep visual contact in army speak) so that you can direct the police to the culprits. 

Getting photographic proof is also dangerous if the perpetrators see you shooting them and demand your camera, so please act with discernment OK?

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## michael lai

I think 'mishandle' is an understatement. In older times, people do it for food. Now, I think they do it for fun. Really sad :Embarassed:

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## CacaManiac

Crap Fellers! really need to get then severly punished!

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## vinz

> People, 
> 
> I share your disdain for such selfish acts on our precious little fauna. However, I'd like to caution against over reacting and attacking people you see in our forests who do such things. Better to call the police, and trail them from a safe distance (keep visual contact in army speak) so that you can direct the police to the culprits. 
> 
> Getting photographic proof is also dangerous if the perpetrators see you shooting them and demand your camera, so please act with discernment OK?


Fortunately, there was a crowd of people in this case. If you're alone, it's better to play it safe. You wouldn't want to be "mishandled" by them either.

If you're a good actor, you can play along and get them to pose with their catch...

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## ranmasatome

> People, 
> 
> I share your disdain for such selfish acts on our precious little fauna. However, I'd like to caution against over reacting and attacking people you see in our forests who do such things. Better to call the police, and trail them from a safe distance (keep visual contact in army speak) so that you can direct the police to the culprits. 
> 
> Getting photographic proof is also dangerous if the perpetrators see you shooting them and demand your camera, so please act with discernment OK?


i know better than that... its just my first thoughts.. doesn't mean i'll act on them...unless i was forced to.
i actually like Vinz's idea...

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## hwchoy

> Fortunately, there was a crowd of people in this case. If you're alone, it's better to play it safe. You wouldn't want to be "mishandled" by them either.
> 
> If you're a good actor, you can play along and get them to pose with their catch...


an excellent idea, you can even ask for their name and address so you can mail them the photos  :Grin:

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## GaspingGurami

> an excellent idea, you can even ask for their name and address so you can mail them the photos


Ummm, if I was going to be doing something illegal eg poaching for fish or hunting for animals or snaring for birds, I'd not like to have my picture taken even by my own group member, let alone a stranger, no matter how friendly they seem to be. These are words from a reformed poacher after spending a night in Toa Payoh station's cell with a suspected bike thief and a suspected rapist at the young age of 16 years.

There are accounts from another fishing forum of members challenging Thai immigrants when they spot them drift netting in our reservoirs. But better to remember to call NParks first before your passion take over. tel number is 6468 5736, better still, program it into your phone.

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## hwchoy

> Ummm, if I was going to be doing something illegal eg poaching for fish or hunting for animals or snaring for birds, I'd not like to have my picture taken even by my own group member, let alone a stranger, no matter how friendly they seem to be. These are words from a reformed poacher after spending a night in Toa Payoh station's cell with a suspected bike thief and a suspected rapist at the young age of 16 years.



haiz, it was meant as an insult to their (the poachers) intelligence. you all take everything so literally huh?

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## GaspingGurami

HWChoy, I meant it for the more impressionable ones. In the fishing forum, some kids literally took the suggested threats of other forummers to heart and was daring to go after the immigrants.

Total defence is one thing, but policing should be left to those charged with the duty to do so.

On a lighter note, I once saw what looked like Indonesian infiltrators walking around West Coast Park one evening around last light, carrying rifles. I called 999 from the nearest phone booth, then tried to maintain surveillance...

Then the "enemy" started their assault... They loaded their rifles, cocked it and took aim... Then the police came with sirens wailing. The "enemy" lowered their weapons and approached the police. Started to talk, looked around... They were from the Gun club, volunteer crow shooters and they looked around to see who is the "Seow On" caller.

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## valice

> Then the "enemy" started their assault... They loaded their rifles, cocked it and took aim... Then the police came with sirens wailing. The "enemy" lowered their weapons and approached the police. Started to talk, looked around... They were from the Gun club, volunteer crow shooters and they looked around to see who is the "Seow On" caller.


I can imagine the looks on the volunteers when they looked around for the caller...  :Laughing:  

But it seems that there are still pretty senior folks out in our society who still hunts for this 'la' (flying foxes known in Hokkien) as part of their wild game cuisines... My grand-uncle is one such person...  :Confused:

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## vinz

> Ummm, if I was going to be doing something illegal eg poaching for fish or hunting for animals or snaring for birds, I'd not like to have my picture taken even by my own group member, let alone a stranger, no matter how friendly they seem to be. These are words from a reformed poacher after spending a night in Toa Payoh station's cell with a suspected bike thief and a suspected rapist at the young age of 16 years.
> 
> ...


Some people get pretty stupid... especially if they have an attitude that what they are doing is not "wrong".

You have to watch their current frame of mind at the time. If they are friendly and boasting of their kill... chances are they are stupid and you probably have a good chance. If they are cautious and wary, then chances are they know the kind of shit they can get into (with the law) and you best not try anything.

I do get your point.

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## Simon

actually, during my last few trips on macritchie, I have been snapping people doing various actions like feeding fishes, plucking leaves and plants

if you want to teach them a lesson then best for you to apply to be a volunteer ranger. I'm thinking of it, but my health status doesn't permit me to

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## Fei Miao

It's sad every time I hear such news... I hope the culprits get caught :Sad:

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## Justikanz

It's pointless. A lot of them will never learn and understand why what they did was wrong. They will blame the government, the 'busybodies' who reported etc, but themselves. They see no wrong in it... Like the recent case where the whistleblower of the cat abuse case was scolded by the accused's family for being a busybody!...

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## hwchoy

> I can imagine the looks on the volunteers when they looked around for the caller...  
> 
> But it seems that there are still pretty senior folks out in our society who still hunts for this 'la' (flying foxes known in Hokkien) as part of their wild game cuisines... My grand-uncle is one such person...



personally for me, hunting is "acceptable", but "torturing" is not.

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## GaspingGurami

> personally for me, hunting is "acceptable", but "torturing" is not.


Ditto. Hunt the right thing at the right places, and don't do it for the pleasure of seeing a helpless animal suffer under your hands.

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## BFG

Simon, what does a volunteer ranger do?

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## Simon

from my ranger friend, a volunteers need to conduct guided walks, educating the visitors, help to keep a lookout for illegal activities...especially on weekends

member cougar88 is the ranger involved in the taking care of the baby at the Ranger station. She will also be watching out for potiental poachers in AQ :P

anyway, 'cougar' has asked me about raising funds for the baby lemur, anyone has any comments?

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## hwchoy

> anyway, 'cougar' has asked me about raising funds for the baby lemur, anyone has any comments?



how much funding is needed? maybe we can organise a photoshoot for the baby, $10 take one pix? can raise $$ and generate publicity.

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## cougar88

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the care & concern for the baby lemur. As of today, Baby has just managed to hv it's first meal. Hope it will continue to recover & survive with the hope of returning back to it's natural home. Please pray for Baby & keep it's mother in your thoughts. The only way to triumph over those culprits is for Baby to survive & gain it's freedom again. 

Once again, Baby & Nparks appreciate & thank you for all your care & concern. Will update on news of Baby's progress.

Photoshoot will not be a good idea cos Baby sleeps during the day & flashes will scare him again..

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## valice

Looking forward to good news about the recovery of the baby... :.pray.:

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## Simon

> how much funding is needed? maybe we can organise a photoshoot for the baby, $10 take one pix? can raise $$ and generate publicity.


you want to blind the poor baby is it? and it will stress the poor bugger  :Grin:  we can think of something, when the actual figures is confirmed by the higher authority  :Kiss: . But keep those light bulbs litted  :Roll Eyes:

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## hwchoy

> you want to blind the poor baby is it? and it will stress the poor bugger  we can think of something, when the actual figures is confirmed by the higher authority . But keep those light bulbs litted



hello no need to use flash lah. available light photography if the baby can be brought out in the day and carried about in shaded areas. Perhaps a photography contest with the wining pix displayed at NParks HQ in SBG? That will make an education opportunity for the public.

we can raise funds straight away in forums where the news has been posted. I know it has appeared in AQ, ClubSnap and I think Petfrd. Perhaps sell t-shirts with the lemur graphic?

eh Fatt Seng, design a t-shirt for the lemur leh.

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## Fei Miao

> if you want to teach them a lesson then best for you to apply to be a volunteer ranger. I'm thinking of it, but my health status doesn't permit me to


How do one go about to be a volunteer ranger?  :Smile:  Choy, it'll be good exercise  :Grin:

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## Simon

> How do one go about to be a volunteer ranger?  Choy, it'll be good exercise


Will let janet aka cougar know of your intention.

so who wants to volunteer to do up a T-shirt for fund raising?

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## ranmasatome

Janet.. if you need any help at all let me know.. i'll come down. i'm a wildlife biologist by training and i really want the baby to make it... besides i live close by so no problems at all..
i know i don't really know you... but i really have the babys interest at heart... perhaps the other mods can vouch for me..hahaha...
let us know if we, at AQ, can do anything to help...i'll be the first to jump on board.

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## timebomb

Just a suggestion, fellas,

If you're really serious about bringing the offenders who shot the "flying lemur" to justice; if you want to raise public awareness, I would suggest you forget about volunteering as a park ranger. Raising funds is great but let's put it to good use. 

Why not start a fund and offer it as a reward for information leading to the arrests of the 3 culprits? There's 3 of them and chances are at least one would have boasted to a relative or friend about his dastardly deed. Surely, someone would know who they are. Let's walk the walk and not just talk the talk. I'm not rich but mark me down for $50. If you can find another 99 like me, you will have $5000, not a princely sum but probably enough to tempt someone to come forward with information. Get yourselves organised and let me know who to send the cheque to.

Loh K L

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## cougar88

Update: 

Baby Lemur is a SHE. She has slight ulcer in her left eye, currently on medication. She is also on saline due to slight dehydration but today was eating well(3 meals). Still very weak & doesn't seem to have much neck control(neck keeps drooping down or sideways). Please continue to pray for her. 

Thanks.

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## valice

News was reported in the Straits Times today... Hopefully someone(s) will come up to report on the three men...

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## Jungle-mania

KUDOS to you all, I think it is great to see like minded people who care for nature. Unfortunately, if I did see someone about to kill an animal, I will intervene immediately and if they do try to stop or attack me, well..its self-defense if I hurt them right?




> Just a suggestion, fellas,
> 
> If you're really serious about bringing the offenders who shot the "flying lemur" to justice; if you want to raise public awareness, I would suggest you forget about volunteering as a park ranger. Raising funds is great but let's put it to good use. 
> 
> Why not start a fund and offer it as a reward for information leading to the arrests of the 3 culprits? There's 3 of them and chances are at least one would have boasted to a relative or friend about his dastardly deed. Surely, someone would know who they are. Let's walk the walk and not just talk the talk. I'm not rich but mark me down for $50. If you can find another 99 like me, you will have $5000, not a princely sum but probably enough to tempt someone to come forward with information. Get yourselves organised and let me know who to send the cheque to.
> 
> Loh K L


mark me down too for $50.

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## hwchoy

> Update: 
> 
> Baby Lemur is a SHE. She has slight ulcer in her left eye, currently on medication. She is also on saline due to slight dehydration but today was eating well(3 meals). Still very weak & doesn't seem to have much neck control(neck keeps drooping down or sideways). Please continue to pray for her. 
> 
> Thanks.



is there any existing picture of the baby lemur? or perhaps ranma go down and take a pix without flash?

if we are to raise a reward for information leading to prosecution of the culprits, we need to make some posters, get people to put up the pix/poster on their blogs, etc etc.

I will start the collection with a new thread.

also since it is a she, we should give her a name which will humanify her in the eyes of the public.

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## valice

There is a picture of the injured mother in today's newspaper I think...
I try to get an online one here and post it here for everyone to see...

Update:


*Picture courtesy of The Straits Times Interactive*

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## Quixotic

> There is a picture of the injured mother in today's newspaper I think...
> I try to get an online one here and post it here for everyone to see...
> 
> Update:
> 
> 
> *Picture courtesy of The Straits Times Interactive*


Hmm... I do not have Straits Times or access to the Interactive, but isn't that the picture of the baby? If you follow the original photographer's account here, the caption reads, "Damn well camouflaged. I couldn't spot the *baby* until I heard it calling almost right next to my foot!".

Are the pictures usable from the original incident? Maybe can check with Aaron, the photographer and for permission as well.

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## hwchoy

> Hmm... I do not have Straits Times or access to the Interactive, but isn't that the picture of the baby? If you follow the original photographer's account here, the caption reads, "Damn well camouflaged. I couldn't spot the *baby* until I heard it calling almost right next to my foot!".
> 
> Are the pictures usable from the original incident? Maybe can check with Aaron, the photographer and for permission as well.



yup will do that. but that pix don't look pityful enough.  :Sad:

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## Quixotic

> yup will do that. but that pix don't look pityful enough.


Cool, otherwise can try to get permission for a photo shoot. Awaiting some good news then.

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## timebomb

> also since it is a she, we should give her a name which will humanify her in the eyes of the public.


Giving the baby lemur a name is a good idea but forget about printing posters and all. Don't waste the money. Just call the Straits Times and tell them you and your gang are going to come up with a reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the 3 culprits. Your offer of a reward itself is going to be news. What better publicity than the pages of the Straits Times?

But do it fast and do it while it's still news. Do it while the trail is still hot. Dilly-dally, get sidetracked by meaningless posts and you're not going to get anywhere. You will need a lawyer-type to draft out the offer and probably, permission from the police. I'm sure the Nature Society will be delighted to chip in and help.

Come on fellas, if you bother to meet up and form a committee just to protest against fish-tattooing, you shouldn't hesitate to spring into action on this one. Don't tell me you care only about fish? Cannot be right?

Loh K L

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## Fei Miao

KL's right...$50 for me.

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## timebomb

> KL's right...$50 for me.


You mean "from me", don't you? Hell, I would be terribly shocked if someone wants to take money away from the fund for himself  :Laughing:  

But seriously, $50 is what I offered to contribute but don't take that as a guide. You are always welcomed to give more, you know. 

But alright then, if you want a guide, I'm upping my contribution to a hundred. Now, all you need is to find another 49 like me. Get organised. Meet up tonight. Form a committee. Appoint a treasurer to collect the money, find someone to be your spokesman, get Budak to do a brief write-up, ask someone to link you all with the other fish/animal forums (I'll be the link in Killies.com). Don't wait until you have $5000. You will collect that amount or even more if you do a good job.

Everyone else, start the ball rolling. Spread the news. Post it on your blog and across other forums.

Move fast, damnit. Move!!!!!!!  :Laughing:  

Loh K L

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## XnSdVd

I'm unemployed and down for $50  :Grin:  But aren't there legal issues to work out? Any lawyers on the forum?

And i'm gonna have to agree with jungle. If i saw an animal being mistreated chances are personal safety would be the last thing on my mind... and should i get hurt, well, there's always AIA and Prudential right?  :Grin:  Janet, what's the word on the colugo? Poor thing... Do we have a name for her yet? Can i volunteer?

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## cougar88

Baby is her name at this moment. She's fine and very hyper...eating & drinking well...

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## valice

> Baby is her name at this moment. She's fine and very hyper...eating & drinking well...


That's nice to hear... Only hope that there is a long term plan in place for her after she recovers from this ordeal...

Guess the zoo will not accept her since she is wild and that releasing her back to the wild might be a problem...

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## XnSdVd

Can't the zoo quarentine her for a few weeks before accepting her? i'd imagine having a female in captivity would go a loooong way in ensuring the survival of other orphaned baby colugos... 

Female = milk erm... formula? And from what I've read so far not knowing the formula is what lead to the death of the previous 2 babies.

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## ecoculturesg

I agree with Loh KL, work guys!! N.A.T.O also no point.. Myself another $50.00..

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## aqualover

> personally for me, hunting is "acceptable", but "torturing" is not.


For me, hunting is only acceptable (whether or not the law allows it) if it's about survival but not as a sport. We should only hunt to eat, not for winning trophies. That's the law of the jungle.

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## budak

Updates on the baby are available on this site:
http://cnrv.blogspot.com/

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## Simon

update: Just last night Janet told us that she refused to eat and was weak and lethargic. This morning, she was put to sleep.

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## ranmasatome

victim of circumstances.

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## baranne

That's really sad to hear...  :Sad:

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## timebomb

So there are now 2 victims and not just one. You can still do something to catch the culprit or culprits; it's still not too late. Or you can sit there, shake your head and say "let's hope someone catches the guy". 

I can't believe that people who bother to come up with posters and all just to protest against fish-tattooing and fish-dyeing will sit there and do nothing when this is a far more worthier cause. After all, fish farmers and traders have a good reason to either dye or tattoo their fish. It's for the money, of course. The reason may sound ridiculous to you but at least, it's still a reason.

What reason is there, however, to kill a harmless and rare creature like the Colugo? What could possibly be the motivation? Obviously, it's just a senseless murder. Yes, you read that right. It's murder and not just killing. We can bring the murderer to justice. We may not succeed but that does not mean we shouldn't try. 

So I ask once more and for the last time, who should I send the cheque to?

Loh K L

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## benny

Kwek Leong,

Why don't you spearhead this program instead? You write better than most of us here and I can't think of anyone more suitable to do the walk instead of just the talk. 

All in favor of supporting Kwek Leong please reply and say "I support Timebomb!"

And let us know where to send the cheque to. S$150 from me.

Cheers,

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## benny

Aquatic Quotient deeply regrets the passing of 'Baby' - the baby lemur.

We hope that this terrible incident can be used to raise awareness so that our fragile fauna and flora can be protected from such mindless acts in the future.

As such, we are attempting to initiate a project call "Bringing a murderer to justice" to raise awareness and hopefully bring justice. This project will be spearheaded by timebomb, a much respected veteran in the local aquatic scene. Please click on the link and give your full support to ensure the project takes off.

This thread has served it purposed and will now be locked.

Thank you.

Cheers,

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