# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Aquatic Moss Club >  Mosses turning brown

## timebomb

Hi, folks,

A couple of months ago, in April, I posted a thread where I told you all that my Erect mosses in my terrarium tank were turning brown. I thought at that time it was because of the heatwave we were having. About 2 months ago, the mosses in my main tank turned brown too. I thought it was because I had too many fishes in the tank and it seemed then, that was really the cause. I gave away many of my fish and the mosses began to turn green again.

Last week, I was at System & Control Engineering, the fish shop along Boon Keng Road. I must say that's really a dumb name for a fish shop; I wonder why the owners didn't change it to something more appropiate. Anyway, when I was there, I saw many brown mosses in their tanks and the owner told me it happened suddenly. Seems like their mosses were growing very well but suddenly they starting turning brown although nothing was changed. They use chillers in all their tanks so it can't be something to do with temperature. They are good with aquatic plants and their display tanks are very beautiful. They grow mosses really well so if theirs are turning brown, something must be seriously wrong. The owner believes it's something to do with the water supply as many of his customers are experiencing the same problems too.

Did your mosses turn brown too? 

Loh K L

----------


## bad_boyz

Most of my moss also turn brown. The only moss which is still green is my java moss.

----------


## green plant

My christmas moss in my 2" tank also turn brown but not all at the same time. The other thank have no problem. It seems the "brown" effect will spread slowly. I got this browning effect only after mixing the christmass moss with the "Singapore / HDB moss" . The browning started from the Singapore moss. Had change 30% water and pull out the affected moss. 

Thought it icould be the drift wood problem, tooK it out, clean with brush and re-tie the moss. ( After removing the brown portion).
After some time it occurs again. 

May be need 100% water change. 



Koh heng.





"
Did your mosses turn brown too? 

Loh K L[/quote] "

----------


## PeterGwee

Loh, I doubt it has anything to do with the water supply unless you mean chloramine which they might have implemented in some of the water treatment plants. A good dechlorinator should take care of it though. The rest is basic plant nutrients. Somewhere along the line lies the problem..you need to find out what it is or simply do the estimative index method and take care of the nutrients. Dose to make sure they are well taken care of and if the issues still arise, it should be CO2 then.

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

----------


## whuntley

Since the problem is universal in one area, it is pretty obviously some new problem with the water supply.

It isn't likely to be chloramine as it is much less toxic to plants than to fish. The fish/inverts would all be dead, first.

I doubt if it is a contagious disease, but that hasn't been totally eliminated by the reported problems.

My guess would be a major change in available nutrients. It could be a total lack of some essential nutrient, or a severe imbalance with an excess of something that otherwise is usually harmless. If the start time is known, a call to the water service can usually identify the exact change that caused it. "Oh yes. That's about the time we started adding ground shark liver to increase the effectiveness of the sewer treatment system."  :Very Happy: 

The likeliest cause is that they started softening the water and dramatically increased the amount of sodium (vs the other electrolytes).

The essential major electrolytes needed to sustain life must be available in some very rough balance. They are sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. Testing for sodium and potassium may be tough as test kits for them are hard to find, hence expensive. GH kits test for divalent ions like Ca++, Mg++, Fe++, etc. I like mine to be at least 3 degress of German Hardness. For Nothos and Fp., 10 or more may be even better. Never go below about 1-2 degrees or your fish and plants can be in big trouble. Likewise, I like to see KH (alkalinity or buffering capacity) up around 4 degrees or more. Many plants can get their CO2 directly from the carbonates so don't let them get too low.

An imbalance between sodium and potassium is one of the quicker ways to brown off plants. Get some of the salt they make for folks on a low-sodium diet. One brand name here is "No Salt" but your grocery store probably has a salt substitute containing mostly potassium chloride.

Use a bit of it in the tank with the browning plants and see if it stops further damage. It only takes a modest amount, so don't kill things by overdoing it.  :Smile:  I would guess at about 1 tsp. per 10G is plenty -- less in really low tds water.

Ca and Mg need a balance too, but I suspect it isn't at all critical. In nature they come in a ratio of about 3:1, but anything from 5:1 to 2:1 should be OK. Again, testing is difficult with a kit, but you can add a bit of Epsom Salt and see if the plants perk up from the extra magnesium.

Trace elements missing can also do a number on plants. Assuming you have the important macronutrients, like N, Ca, K, etc., then adding a mix like Tropica Master Grow or the home-made PMMD can fix most problems in those areas.

I find a pretty good universal cure for over-softened water is SeaChem's "Equilibrium." YMMV. I do like that they give the amounts of the ingredients. I won't buy "snake oil" where they try to conceal their ingredient list or won't tell how much of each you are using. You can use it and a little baking soda to make very healthy water, even out of totally dead DI or distilled water.

HTH,

Wright

----------


## confusekid

Hi guys,
Now that I have seen this post, I also notice that my Xmas moss in my main tank is slowly turning brown. Those in my shrimp tank is OK as I do not change water for that tank. 

Jack

----------


## whuntley

Hey Jack,

Are you feeding differently in your main tank and in your shrimp tank? Often the major source of nutrients for our plants can be what we feed our fish or inverts.

Wright

----------


## confusekid

Hi Wright,
I used the same food for both my main tank and the shrimp tank. The only difference is that I change water and add fert for the main tank. Shouldn't a deficiency be corrected by the fert that I added(both macro and micro)?

Jack

----------


## Green Baron

I noticed Erect Moss is more susceptible to browning than other mosses.
I have a few mosses in my tanks and Erect Moss seems to be the 1st or only one that turns brown.

----------


## confusekid

Hi Gan,
Suprising my erect moss is OK but my Xmas is turning brown.  :Question:  

Jack

----------


## green plant

For my case, Started with "Singapore" moss --> Xmas mosss --> then Java moss. Now only left some Xmas moss in the small tank. As for the main tank both Java and Xmas moss have no problem.

Koh Heng.





> Hi Gan,
> Suprising my erect moss is OK but my Xmas is turning brown.  
> 
> Jack

----------


## Barbarik

I was at a LFS in Jurong East yesterday. The owner informed me that all his erect moss was turning brown recently. I was suprised that at least 40% of the erect moss on sale (tied to driftwood) was already brown. The tank did not contain any fish at all.
When I reached home, I was shocked to find out my erect moss was also turning brown. My other mosses within the same moss-only-tank were doing fine. The same thing also happened to a good friend of mine.
Seems like we are facing some kind of unknown phenomenon??? Anyone have a scientific explaination for this???

----------


## RonWill

Guys, it seems like erect moss browing is affecting more than we realized. I'm not sure if these moss are 'seasonal' or if something's cooking in our water mains. [Initially, I was suspecting that only the western areas were hit, especially with fish casualties after water changes]

Emersed erect moss is still hardy as ever but not those in water. Recent water changes even turned anubias into mush. Yes, the hard-to-kill anubias... all rotted out to the rhizomes, liken to crypts in new water.

My once luscious Tropica java fern became browner than a brownie  :Mad:  

Azmi, from Eco-Culture, visited me Sept 12th and took some water samples when he saw my anubias. The following details were received via SMS;
NO2 = 0.1ppm (no action required)
NH4 = 0.5ppm (no action required if pH 6~7.5)
PO4 = 2 ppm (  :Exclamation:  )
NO3 = 40ppm (  :Exclamation:  )

... and this is a few days after water change.

My crypt tank that hasn't seen a water change in *months*, except for top up, is doing fine (crypts are lush and green, without a single spot of algae).

Come to think of it, those tanks with very old water are the most stable. Which makes me wonder what our water-works are doing _quietly_.

Can those with fancy test kits do a check on their water, please. I hear that the nitrate level is rather alarming these days... straight from the tap.

----------


## PeterGwee

Its definitely not excess nitrate...they are nutrients to plants and plants have no issues at that level at all. My bet is that the tap levels of NO3 went too low (0.5ppm) for some reason which is why folks who do not dose KNO3 is now facing issues with high light CO2 enriched tanks. Non-CO2 tanks do not need that high of an uptake and hence are not hit by such drops. One thing folks might want to know is that some of the treatment plants are replacing chlorine with chloramine instead. That is another possible reason with sudden issues with both plants and critters. A good anti-chloramine solution should take care of most issues.

I would not trust those hobbyist test kits that LFS are selling except for a Hach or LaMotte kit which will burn holes in folks wallets. This kits are quality stuff but still have issues if you go way too low though.

Regards
Peter Gwee

----------


## TyroneGenade

> Its definitely not excess nitrate...they are nutrients to plants and plants have no issues at that level at all. My bet is that the tap levels of NO3 went too low (0.5ppm) for some reason which is why folks who do not dose KNO3 is now facing issues with high light CO2 enriched tanks.


No, aquarium plants prefer ammonia/ammonium over nitrate any day. In fact they take up very very little nitrate and generally do poorly on it unless they have access to atmospheric oxygen and very bright lighting (like sunlight) and then still algae are better uses of it. A nitrate surge will benefit algae far more than plants. The reason why plants respond to salt peter (KNO3) is because of the potassium that they crave like all forms of life.

I suggest you purchase Diana Walstad's book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. It explains everything to do with plants in a fish tank.

tt4n

----------


## PeterGwee

> No, aquarium plants prefer ammonia/ammonium over nitrate any day. In fact they take up very very little nitrate and generally do poorly on it unless they have access to atmospheric oxygen and very bright lighting (like sunlight) and then still algae are better uses of it. A nitrate surge will benefit algae far more than plants. The reason why plants respond to salt peter (KNO3) is because of the potassium that they crave like all forms of life.


Diana's school of thought is based off non-CO2 enriched tanks? Generalisation of any particular species of plants? I think Tom Barr wrote something about it in the APD on plants preferrence of ammonia over nitrate and found that although some plants do prefer ammonia, most plants are not picky on the forms of nitrogen available to them. Once you lift the CO2 limitation off them, you can expect a lot of uptake even from inorganic sources of nitrogen namely KNO3.

Regards
Peter Gwee :wink:

----------


## whuntley

I tend to agree strongly with Peter on this point.

Many plants, despite energy theories, have a strong preference for the nitrate form. It takes more energy to reduce it and utilize, but adequate light and other chemistry seemingly can provide that easily

KNO3 has a couple of really huge benefits. It provides the K that overcomes Na toxicity in softer waters. Feeding and various ion-exchange processes often bring sodium up to toxic levels for plants or fishes. Cell metabolism needs the potassium to balance the sodium. The other biggie is that you can dump dissolved KNO3 directly in with your fish and not worry about the pH. You certainly cannot get away with that with any form of ammonium.

Wright

----------


## Green Baron

The Erect Moss in my low maintenance tank in my office is browning as well :-( 



This is the tank which has Erect Moss so thick that it was chocking the tank ! 


3 weeks ago, I removed all the Erect Moss except those at top which were producing capsules and since then I have noticed the browning. The Chrismas Moss in the tank don't seem to be affected. 

I will try dosing some NO3 and see if it helps.

----------


## danny_t

Hi all

My 2 feet tank consists of Taiwan Moss, Erect Most, Weeping Moss, Xmas Moss and Java Moss

From my tank 2 types didn't turn brown - Taiwan Moss and Java Moss.

Some of my Erect Moss turn brown and now it is green again.

As for Xmas Moss brown is still brown, growth rate too slow to judge.

Thanks
Danny

----------


## fkkow

Hi Mr. Loh and others,

I think the situation/problem of the moss is settled right? Mine is turning slight brown. Wonder what it's due to. I dose with liquid NPK and Fe. Not sure bout the lighting but i calculated it should be enough except some plants cover up the moss bogwood.

The temperature is around 28 degree celsius... 

Any advice? The moss i'm having problem with is Singapore moss.. BTW how to tie singapore moss so it gave the 'V' shape when it is overgrown? How to trim mosses??

Thanks.

----------


## strung_0ut

I recall cS saying that too much iron dosing led to mosses turning brown. Singapore I think, is a little easier on temperature like java moss, and is easier to grow. What are your other tank conditions?

Regards,
Dennis

----------


## whuntley

Dennis,

My tap water has about 0.3ppm+ of iron, and I see no browning of my various mosses (Java, Weeping and Taiwan). Plants seem to love my moderately soft (50 ppm as CaCO3) water. I do have a lot of them over beach gravel, so the hardness tends to drift upward a bit.

Wright

----------


## strung_0ut

Yeah Wright I was not too sure about it, but with my tank I rarely dose traces anyways. I also forgot this, on APC, I recall on the plantfinder that extra iron for java moss gave it more of a rich green color. Still does anyone really know anything about moss - except for cool water? On another note, Hey! your in California now? When did this happen? Or is it just me and I've never noticed, because I knew in some point you were in freezing cold snow stormy areas. = )

Regards,
Dennis

----------


## whuntley

ROTFL!!  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy: 

I'm only about 50-60 miles from you, and have lived in CA since the Hoover administration (that's the one before Franklin Roosevelt).

Yesterday morning I drove almost 150 miles on road marked "Chains Required (or 4WD)" on ice and in snow. Speed Limit 35 MPH. I had to go to Reno to pick up a Washington Bureaucrat. She had a lovely ride back down the E. side of the Sierras to Mammoth Lakes, where we dropped her off before returning to Bishop. The snow had melted and the roads were dry all the way home.

Wright

----------


## strung_0ut

I'll be sure to hunt you down old timer, next time I'm in Sequoia. Very beautiful area you live in. = )

Regards,
Dennis

----------


## whuntley

It's a tough hike from there, Dennis.

Note that there are no passes across the Sierras from Bakersfield to Yosemite, :-)

----------


## fkkow

The water hardness is bout 2-3. I dose 1-2 cup full of Fe (Nutrafin) and 1 cup of NPK (Nutrafin) after water change. 

The Fe is within recommended limit. pH is acidic to neutral....

Thanks,
FK

----------


## ezumi

Hi,
Is anyone still having problems with mosses turning brown?

Pleae advise me on solving this brown problem.  :Sad:  

My cute and pretty christmas mosses are turning browner each day  :Crying: 

ezumi
East Singapore

----------


## hii

Last few month, my christmas moss turned brown. After that follow by weeping moss. 

I remember last time my weeping moss grow in full green but now half of it is brown only the new shoot remaind green.

But it didn't happen to Java moss, taiwan moss and Singapore moss in the same tank.  :Question:

----------

