# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Cryptocoryne Club >  pH altering properties of substrates

## illumbomb

Hi Guys,

I couldn't get any new cryptocorynes to experiment on recently so decided to test the pH altering properties of some of the substrates I am currently using for growing my cryptocorynes. 

Distilled water (Polar brand & Life brand) was used to partially fill up tupperwares in which the substrate are added. The pH of just the distilled water measured about 6.6.



In one of the tuppeware I added about 100ml of distilled water + 0.3ml of Ocean Free Super Black Water (recommended amount is 1ml to 6L, overall I added about 0.6ml to 100ml which works out to be > 30 times the recommended amount) and measured the pH at about 6.6. i added another 0.3ml of black water extract into the tupperware and measured the pH again at about 6.6. I concluded that the black water extract I added did not have much effects on altering the pH of the water.



In the tupperwares I added (from left to right) GEX (light green packaging), used ADA amazonia + aficana (50%:50%), Kanuma, Kotobuki Dr Soil and Horti Moss. I will add more tupperwares and substrates and will keep you guys informed of the pH measured next week. 



pH test is conducted using Zoolek Aquatest pH x 2 (4.5 - 9.0 and 6.0 - 8.0). If you have done such pH test before, do share your findings here too!
Thanks!

Regards,
T S Wang
Bored...

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## BlackShrimp

this is an interesting experiment!!! will look forward to the results!!!

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## illumbomb

Added more substrates to test:

Horti brand soil, Lapis sand with coral chips, Sphagnum moss from Japan (from left to right)


Akadama soil, lapis sand, Muji brand substrate (from left to right)

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## illumbomb

First batch of results (after 1 week) is out (subjected to wrong interpretation of colour results of the pH test!! :Opps: ):

The following substrates did not affect the pH of the water much:
1) GEX (light green packaging): pH 6.6
2) Kanuma soil: pH 6.4 - 6.5
3) Kotobuki Dr Soil: pH 6.5 - 6.6
4) used ADA amazonia + aficana (50%:50%): pH 6.2 - 6.3

The clear winner is Horti Moss which lowered the pH of the water to around 4 to 4.5.

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## vwsj84

Nice experiment and interesting results you got there !  :Smile: 

Maybe u can do a test on the ph altering properties of ketapang leaves? Does oceanfree use ketapang leaves to make their blackwater extract?

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## illumbomb

Your wish is my command. Luckily I am staying along Jurong East Ave 1 which is lined with Ketapang trees. I collected a dried leaf just now, soaked it in boiling water first before placing it in the tupperware with distilled water.



I have tried using these leaves in my emersed crytocoryne tank before to lower the pH but did not find it to be effective. However, I will keep you updated of the result next week.

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## BlackShrimp

illumbomb you are the man~

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## vwsj84

wow... thanks for doing the test man !!! waiting anxiously for the results !!!  :Smug:

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## illumbomb

Next batch of results after 1 week of soaking:

1) Horti brand soil: pH of about 4.5
2) Lapis sand with coral chips: pH 8.0
3) Sphagnum moss from Japan: pH of about 5.0
4) Akadama soil: pH 6.6
5) Lapis sand: pH 7.8
6) Muji brand substrate: pH 7.4

The winner for this week is Ketapang Leaf (after 4 days only): pH of say about 4? (difficult to judge as the water is badly tinted by the leaf already).

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## illumbomb

Did a remeasurement for the below after the 2nd week:

1) GEX (light green packaging): pH 6.6
2) Kanuma soil: pH 6.6
3) Kotobuki brand Dr Soil: pH 6.6
4) used ADA amazonia + aficana (50&#37;:50%): pH 6.3
5) Horti brand Peat Moss: pH 4 to 4.5

Results are similar to the previous week so I think the pH level for such test should be stabilised after 1 week so there is no need to further monitor. 

If you have any new substrates in mind, do conduct similar tests and let us know the results here.

What shocked me more was my main emersed tank's water pH level. It has close to pH 4.5 up to 2 weeks ago when I last measured (I previously soaked peat most inside it). It used to house only 1 betta and 4 boraras with light feeding done for the last 2 months. Last week, I introduced 4 more fishes (1 betta, 2 croaking gourami, 1 Aplocheilus panchax) which I caught during my field trip and started to feed a lot more. Guess what was the pH when I measured it today? 6.0!!!!!!! 

So pals, for those who wishes to have a low stable pH in your emersed cryptocoryne tank, think twice before adding fishes! I will monitor my cryptocoryne's growth condition (anyway, those cryptocorynes I currently have do not really need extrememly low ph) and the pH level before deciding whether I should take action to reduce the pH again......

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## illumbomb

*Grand Summary Table*

*Substrate tested so far:*

01. plain distilled water: pH 6.6
02. GEX (light green packaging): pH 6.6
03. Kanuma soil: pH 6.4 - 6.5
04. 'Kotobuki' brand Dr Soil substrate: pH 6.5 - 6.6
05. used 'ADA' brand Amazonia + Aficana (50%:50%): pH 6.2 - 6.3
06. 'Horti' brand peat moss: pH 4.0 - 4.5
07. 'Horti' brand soil: pH 4.5
08. Lapis sand with coral chips: pH 8.0
09. Sphagnum moss from Japan (don't bother using low grade ones): pH 5.0
10. Akadama soil: pH 6.6
11. Lapis sand: pH 7.8
12. 'Muji' brand substrate: pH 7.4
13. Ketapang Leaf: pH <4.0
14. 'Aquamedi' brand Black Peat Granules: pH 4.0 - 4.5
15. Ocean Free brand Super Pro-Peat Granules: pH 4.0 - 4.5
16. Garden soil 'burnt soil': pH 8.0
17. ADA Amazonia II: pH 6.2
18. Volcanic rock: pH 7.2
19. First Layer Pure Laterite: pH 6.8
20. used ADA Amazonia: pH 6.8
21. SUDO Medaka Pink Sand: pH => 8.0
22. SUDO Crystal Orange Sand: pH 7.4
23. SUDO Real Brown Sand: pH 7.8
24. SUDO Bottom Sand: pH 7.2
25. used ADA Amazonia mixed with lapis sand: pH 7.0
26. live sphagnam moss: pH 5 to 5.5
27. used ADA africana: pH 6.2 - 6.4
28. coconut hust: pH 7.0
29. magic soil: pH 6.4
30. lawn sand: pH 7.0

*To summarise the results in accending order of pH value (by 0.5):*

pH 4.0: 'Horti' brand peat moss, dried ketapang leaves (will cause discolouration of water readily),'Aquamedi' brand Black Peat Granules, Ocean Free brand Super Pro-Peat Granules
pH 4.5: 'Horti' brand soil
pH 5.0: Sphagnum moss from Japan (don't bother using low grade ones), live aphagnam moss
pH 5.5: no suggestion so far
pH 6.0: ADA Amazonia II
pH 6.5: GEX (light green packaging), Kanuma soil, 'Kotobuki' brand Dr Soil substrate, Akadama soil, distilled water, used ADA africana, magic soil
pH 7.0: Volcanic rock, First Layer Pure Laterite, used ADA Amazonia, SUDO Bottom Sand, used ADA Amazonia mixed with lapis sand, coconut husk, lawn sand
pH 7.5: 'Muji' brand substrate, SUDO Crystal Orange Sand
pH 8.0: Lapis sand, Garden soil 'burnt soil', SUDO Medaka Pink Sand, SUDO Real Brown Sand

Note: Bottled distilled water of pH about 6.6 is used for all the above test.

Hope that the results above will prove to be helpful in the process of selecting the substrates to be used as potting mix as well as to condition the pH of the water for emersed cryptocoryne cultivation. Cheers!

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## BlackShrimp

thanks for spending your time to do such informative experiment illumbomb!!!  :Smile:

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## route

very informative  :Smile: 
thanks for taking the time to provide us with a detailed experiment!

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## taygu

Hi Illumbomb,

Can you advise what did you get the Horti brand soil and peat moss?

I tried on the Horti Moss used for planting and the ammonia is very high. Leave it sock for 2 weeks with regular water change but still cannot get rid of the ammonia. Thus decided to stop.

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## illumbomb

Hi Taygu,

Horti Moss is the Horti "peat moss" that I was referring to. How high was the ammonia level you measured? I used them in my emersed cryptocoryne tank with some wild betta, gourami, boraras inside and they are still surviving.  :Opps: 

Horti Soil can be bought from NTUC too but they run out of stock quite regularly. If you can't find them in NTUC, you can give those nurseries at Thomson area a try. 

Regards,
T S Wang

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## taygu

Hi TS,

Thanks for the reply and the information. Sorry, I cannot remember the level as one I saw that it is yellow in colour ( clear for o ppm), I just pour it away and did not bother to check the level.

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## illumbomb

I ran the same test on low grade sphagnum moss (those $5 per big pack ones) and concluded that their pH lowering property are not as good as those I bought back from Japan. After 2 weeks of soaking in distilled bottled water, the pH was still something like 6.4 as compared to 5 obtained using Japan sphagnum moss.

I also placed some live java moss into one of the tupperware and ran the same test. Perhaps I did not put enough of these mosses inside as the pH level obtained was 6.6 - 6.8, close to that of the original distilled water. I have read elsewhere that pH obtained could be even lower than 4 using such live moss. Maybe I will need to buy and add in more live moss.

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## taygu

Hi,

I have Taiwan moss and flame moss to spare for you to run the test, do let me know..

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## illumbomb

Just did the same experiment on "Garden Soil" (The lady who sold it to me for $2 a packet told me it is burnt soil from Indonesia), this soil has bits of charcoal like material mixed in it and is brownish in colour. 

After 1st week: pH of around 8.0.

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## exotic_idiot

> The winner for this week is Ketapang Leaf (after 4 days only): pH of say about 4? (difficult to judge as the water is badly tinted by the leaf already).


How many pcs of Ketapang leaves, we must put in order for the water to drop till 4? Let's say a 2ft tank?

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## gemo82

One important factor which you did not mention, is how much of substrate you used for the volume of water. Was it consistent among the test specimens? As I believe the amount of substrate used per volume of water will affect the results, it'll be fairer to keep the ratio constant. 

Thank you so much for the information and hard work!! Well done!!

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## David Moses Heng

amazing!! Try the volcanic soil from Cold Storage. I have 4 tanks on them and the pH reading for them hovers around 5 to 6.5. It is a very wide range. For my biggest tank(4 x 1.5 x [email protected]) thus far, the plants are responding very well to the soil. Plenty of crypt inside. 

I have also a 2 ft on the volcanic soil. :Smile:

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## exotic_idiot

> amazing!! Try the volcanic soil from Cold Storage. I have 4 tanks on them and the pH reading for them hovers around 5 to 6.5. It is a very wide range. For my biggest tank(4 x 1.5 x [email protected]) thus far, the plants are responding very well to the soil. Plenty of crypt inside. 
> 
> I have also a 2 ft on the volcanic soil.


Are they safe for fish keeping too? And most importantly how much are they selling per kg? Can't understand what you mention about pH reading for them hovers around 5 to 6.5. 
The pH is not fix at certain levels? :Roll Eyes:

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## David Moses Heng

> Are they safe for fish keeping too? And most importantly how much are they selling per kg? Can't understand what you mention about pH reading for them hovers around 5 to 6.5. 
> The pH is not fix at certain levels?


 
they are safe. I have bred rams using those. 5 kg for 2 bucks. 
The pH will mostly stay around 5.5. However different pack/tankk has diffferent reading.

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## exotic_idiot

> they are safe. I have bred rams using those. 5 kg for 2 bucks. 
> The pH will mostly stay around 5.5. However different pack/tankk has diffferent reading.


Are you using which size tank to measure the pH?
Maybe you can guide us along.. Go for a cheaper soil...!
Consider 5kg for $2 no other soil can challenge the price..!
10kg only $4 Wahahaaaa :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 
Thanks for sharing this great deal..!

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## David Moses Heng

> Are you using which size tank to measure the pH?
> Maybe you can guide us along.. Go for a cheaper soil...!
> Consider 5kg for $2 no other soil can challenge the price..!
> 10kg only $4 Wahahaaaa
> Thanks for sharing this great deal..!


I have used the soil for tanks 2 ft to 6 ft. What explains for the difference in pH i am npt very sure. But the lowest i have recorded is for my 2 ft. pH=5.6.

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## WiNd08

very informative! but there might be inaccuracy due to tannins which affected the water.

maybe a pH test pen could have better determine the water.

otherwise, maybe you can give me a small amount of each of the test samples and i can make use of the analytical pH meter in my lab if im free :Laughing:

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## illumbomb

Tested Ocean Free brand Super Pro Peat Granules today after soaking some in distilled water for a week. Result: pH 4.0 - 4.5 as expected......







*See post number 11 for summary.*

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## freshfish

guys have a question , do you all place the peat direct into your filter >?

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## gemo82

The peat usually comes with a filter net. Just place the net with the peat in the filter. For me, I placed a layer of it under the substrate.

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## derekchia

The peat I bought does't come with a net, has to buy the net separately. I place them in the sump tank one section before the pump is located. 4x2x2 sump tank with 500grams of sera peat can only achieved lowest 6.4ph so far.

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## gemo82

Is that low enough for your liking? I believe you can put more peat to decrease it further if you need. But as time goes by (usually around 3 months), the pH lowering capability will decrease, hence you will need to replace the peat. Also take note that our tap water is neutral pH, or slightly alkaline, so frequent water changes will increase the pH slowly after time.

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## khtee

I am looking for one that can sustain PH value of 6. Any good recommendation?

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## illumbomb

> I am looking for one that can sustain PH value of 6. Any good recommendation?


If cost is not of an issue, try ADA Aficana Aqua Soil, it is stated on their website that the pH is about 5.9 (when added to their tap water of pH 7.6) which is very close to the 6 you are trying to achieve. You have probably have to try out the different type of water to be used though (i.e. pure tap water or mixed with some rain water / distilled water / RO water / etc???).

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## khtee

> If cost is not of an issue, try ADA Aficana Aqua Soil, it is stated on their website that the pH is about 5.9 (when added to their tap water of pH 7.6) which is very close to the 6 you are trying to achieve. You have probably have to try out the different type of water to be used though (i.e. pure tap water or mixed with some rain water / distilled water / RO water / etc???).


I already have dennerle's substrate with in the planted tank with discus. Currently I am using Seachem Discus Buffer to lower it to 5.8. Hope to get a constant PH 6.0 without adding the Discus Buffer.

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## derekchia

> Is that low enough for your liking? I believe you can put more peat to decrease it further if you need. But as time goes by (usually around 3 months), the pH lowering capability will decrease, hence you will need to replace the peat. Also take note that our tap water is neutral pH, or slightly alkaline, so frequent water changes will increase the pH slowly after time.


Not sure how much peats needed for lower ph, just a guide for a 4x2x2ft sump tank with 500grams of black peat. As ph 6.4 is good enough for my altums,didn't try further. Currently maintaining with ketapang leaves, as its free. Sera black peats cost $10.80/500grams. :Grin:

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## illumbomb

Some new tests done today:


First Layer Pure Laterite: pH 8.8


ADA Amazonia II: pH 6.2


Volcanic Rock: pH 7.2

*See post number 11 for summary.*

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## ZANE

Illumbomb! I was just wondering if you've ever tried *LIVE* sphagnum peat moss as a ph altering agent? Something about the live plant releasing + charged ions into the water, causing it to drop in ph supposedly. I'm wondering if that would be better - without the rotting of the peat, possible yellowing of the water etc, etc... 

ZANE.

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## illumbomb

Hi Zane,

Sigh, I tried to buy some live sphagnum moss from GCS forum by including my name in the mass order list but somehow when they obtained the moss and distributed it, they started another thread which I missed completely until the distribution ended! Anyway, luckily Jinhui said he would sell me some small portion to try, will let you know the result soon.

Regards,
T S Wang

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## ZANE

Ah cool. If you're not able to get any - one guy in GCS said he can give me some with a few helmet orchids I'm buying from him - depending on how much I get, I can share some with you. Only thing is he wont be back in Singapore until sometime in February so I have to wait. I'll let you know if I'm able to get my hands on any.

Z.

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## illumbomb

used ADA Amazonia - pH 6.8

Also note that I am using distilled water for all the above "non-scientific" tests as they are said to contain less pH buffering substrances. I recently tried adding peat granules in a bucket of tap water and the pH was brought down to merely about 6 as opposed to the expected 4 to 4.5 when using distilled water, something which I have tested quite a few times already in my emersed cryptocoryne tank.

*See post 11 for grand summary.*

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## Jervis

Very informative. Thanks for the great effort!

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## illumbomb

SUDO Medaka Pink Sand - pH 8.0 or more


SUDO Crystal Orange Sand - pH 7.4


SUDO Real Brown Sand - pH 7.8


SUDO Bottom Sand - pH 7.2


used ADA Amazonia mixed with lapis sand - pH 7.0

*See post 11 for grand summary.*

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## Verminator

I've been stuck on the subject of which substrate to purchase for along time. After reading through this thread over the last month or so i have to admit i think its helped me decide. Extremely usefull, this aught be a sticky if it isnt so already.

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## illumbomb

Haha, glad that you found it useful but I don't really know how you could interpret and make sense of these data.  :Evil:  Let me just clarify again the many limitations you would have to consider when trying to make sense of these data:

I uses bottled distilled water as the base as they are more constant as compared to tap water which pH may fluctuate depending on what how the water authority controls their processes. For many people using tap water, it may not yield silimar results as tap water has higher buffering capability then distilled water.As pointed out by others earlier, I do not have a consistent measurement of amount of water against substrate. The test is carried out usually in palm size tupperwares, water level is maybe 4 to 5 cm high while substrate is about 0.5 cm high.No calibration was done using my liquid pH tester so the results might not be too accurate.I tested the pH usually at about week 2. The pH might fluctuate there after and I would not have captured such changes, especially for mixed substrates (see below, the lapis sand + ADA Amazonia substrate pH has rose to about 7.5 from the previous 7.0 after a few more weeks.



Well, hope that your decision remains correct!

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## illumbomb

live sphagnam moss - pH 5 to 5.5


used ADA africana - pH 6.2 to 6.4

*See post 11 for grand summary.*

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## BFG

I hate to bring this up, I just saw this thread, but why did you include used ADA soil and also a mix combination of Amazonia and Africana ? All the sample are from a single composition right so every sample should be equal state of composition and not a mixed sample that might show a different outcome. And are the mass of each sample equal to the other? A lesser amount of sample might not reflect the actual ph value when the other sample has more amount of quantity/mass.

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## illumbomb

Hi BFG,

I usually buy used ADA soil from forumer for growing my cryptocoryne, that is why I only tested the pH of used ADA soil. As for why I tested pH of a mixture of ADA amazonia and aficana soil, it again was because one of the batch of used ADA soil I bought from a forumer here was already in mixed form (i.e. africana and amazonia), so I tested the mix before using.  :Razz: 

I already qualified in my posting (see post #45) and would like to qualify again here that all these test are non scientific because there is no calibration, no accurate measurement of quantity of substrate vs water, etc. Therefore, do not trust 100% of what you read here. Worst still, the tests are done with bottle distilled water (which I use for growing my cryptocorynes and of course there is no basis to follow this at all too, it's just that I had started off using it so continued to use it since my cryptocorynes are growing satisfactory "don't fix what is not broken") and the results are completely different when you use tap water. The pH also changes with time. So make reference with care guys.  :Razz:

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## o2bubble

bro illumbomb, thanks for the great effort to conduct the tests. Just want to point out that amazonia will slowly lose its ph lowering properties over time. A brand new one should lower the ph to around 6.6 at least with kh buffered at 3. I have not yet measured that for amazonia 2 in my new tank but i heard its even lower.

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## illumbomb

coconut husk - pH 7.0 (measured after 1 week as the water will turn too brown after that)

*See post 11 for grand summary*

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## illumbomb

Magic soil - about pH 6.4


lawn sand (my friend told me he bought it from Far East Florist) - pH 7.0


this is so far the sand I tested with the lowest pH, but it is very fine

*see post 11 for grand summary*

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## betta_luRver

Bro, have you tried using garden compost?

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## illumbomb

Nope, never before. Have you?

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## betta_luRver

> Nope, never before. Have you?


I'm trying at the moment. A bro here with quite an extensive collection of crypts growing them well in compost and they are flowering nicely! I'm experimenting at the moment.. Hope it works!  :Smile:

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## illumbomb

Great! Do keep us posted on the results!

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