# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  Seachem Flourish and Excel

## jeffteo

Anyone know where I can get cheap Seachem Flourish and Excel. I live in TPY area.

As for dosing, do I need both or only one of it will be sufficient.
Currently I do not have pressurized CO2 injection and am trying out DIY yeast formula. I already got all the CO2 equipment except for the pressurized tank and solenoid.

Thanks in advanced for any advice.

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## eviltrain

since you are in TPY, you can take bus to NA which is opposite thomson medical centre. its one of the cheaper place around for fish stuffs.

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## griffinkid

Hi flourish is an all rounder fertilizer containing N P K without the trace elements. Excel is organic carbon so i guess it will be nice to get both  :Smile:

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## himyick

Yo, i think you mean seachem flourish is a comprehensive fertilizer _with_ trace elements.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod.../Flourish.html

But I find that the NPK in flourish is not enough, thats why they have separate products for N, P and K.

Excel supply carbon while flourish supply mineral nutrients to the plants. As they serve different purposes, its best to have both. Are they sufficient? it also depends on your plant load.

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## jeffteo

Ah... Natural Aquarium.. i been there last week to get a PL-L bulb when I go visit my friend at TMC. Maybe I should go again.
So do I dose excel when I have DIY CO2 already? What about the carbon in my filter? I need to remove it before I dose right?
But if I remove the carbon, the tannin will stain my water badly. What alternative do I have?

Sorry to ask so many question at 1 go, really dunno which way to go now.

I am having more and more algae growing in the tank and need to put it in check before it take over my tank. This morning noticed slight furry algae growing on the back of the tank.
Maybe 16 hrs of 35W light for a 60L each day is too much but I like my tank to be brightly lit. Turned off one of the lamp last night and now only the 11W is on with timer down to 14.5 hrs each day. Need to help the plants grow faster and use up the nutrient before the algae get the chance to.

HELP HELP!!!

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## jeffteo

Went Natural Aquarium and bought a pack of CO2 tablet instead. The Seachem bottles are going for $9 each but need to take out the carbon in the filter if I want to go this path. I passed it for now.

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## jeffteo

BTW how long are the lights on everyday for you guys? What is the typical or recommended time for lights on?

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## marcusth

If i am you, i would invest on a test kit to c which parameter of ur water is off the scale...hairy algae can be bga or hair algae..depending on which, u can actually use excel or hydrogen peroxide to spray on it.. i too am battling against these 2 algaes in my tank is is improving significantly..

Your light is definitely on too long, 8 - 10hours is more than enough for ur plants and any thing lnger than that and with unstable CO2, algae is inevitable.. 

Take a look from this link http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/

CO2 tablet in my opinion is rubbish as i had once been in ur shoe saving $$ and bought it, it just clouded ur rubbish w/o really adding CO2 into ur water properly..my opinion is invest in a cylinder if really into planted tank or diy at least...nowadays owning a complete set of cylinder is less than 2 blue notes or slightly more than 2 blue botes if looking for 1 with solenoid, i strongly recommend color @ west coast , lest you are into low-tech tank which means excel is necessary  :Smile:

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## Jimmy

> Went Natural Aquarium and bought a pack of CO2 tablet instead. The Seachem bottles are going for $9 each but need to take out the carbon in the filter if I want to go this path. I passed it for now.


 C328 is cheaper but not by a lot, so if you buying one bottle is ok. i bought 4 recently, think $8 per bottle plus some discount given.

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## jeffteo

Just went C328 few days back, very out of place for me.
My KH had been 0 for quite some time and PH very stable at 6.5. Do i add baking soda to bring the KH up?
Don't have the test kit for NPK yet but if I were to get, do I really need to get all 3? If no need, which are the must have?

Thinking about it again, the carbon may already be absording the metals that are already in the water. Maybe it is time to take the carbon out.
And my DIY CO2 is not working peroperly, it is not strong enough to push thru the check valve on the bubble counter.
Last night i noticed that the fancy java fern is getting slight burn at the top edges. So what is lacking here.

Rought plan here is to get the following.
1. Seachem Flourish and Seachem Excel
2. 2 L CO2 Cylinder

NA is selling the manual one for $70+ and and each top up is $15. Forgotten to ask the brand thought. Is it ok to get from here? Will a aluminium one be better? Anyone got recommendation for CO2 tank and where to get?

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## jeffteo

Photos of the algae growing in my tank now. Looks like Green Dust Algae.
It is on my return pipe and back of the screen that is getting alot of light.
Not alot but is increasing.

The Xmas Moss on the left is turning brown and dying slowly. The Flame moss on the right is new from C328 that I got 3 days ago.

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## marcusth

Having enough lighting but unstable CO2 definitely will invite algae, it is best to invest in a CO2 set..It is at a reasonable price for $70+, but if i will you, i would fork out probably another 30+ 40 to get a solenoid than a manual regulator which will save you from several issues raised by manual regulator...

Pain once and enjoy all the rest and furthermore, it is much more hassle free  :Smile:

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## marcusth

Having enough lighting but unstable CO2 definitely will invite algae, it is best to invest in a CO2 set..It is at a reasonable price for $70+, but if i will you, i would fork out probably another 30+ 40 to get a solenoid than a manual regulator which will save you from several issues raised by manual regulator...

Pain once and enjoy all the rest and furthermore, it is much more hassle free  :Smile:

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## jeffteo

This is poisonous. Help! Help!

Anyway thanks for the advice Marcus, I think i got and found the answer why. Lighting for 16 hours was really too long, that was the timing that I had when I was experimenting with nano ATS on my previous tank and that is the recommended timing for growing algae. Thinking that it will help plants grow as fast and forgotten that algae will grow much much faster than the plants. Now the light is set to be on for 10 hours a day.

Another problem is I had the additional 11W light too near to the side and the overflow. That encourages algae growth on the nearest surface.

Let's see if the algae problem is resolved.

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## vinz

So many questions... :-)

First and foremost: take the carbon out of your filter. It is for chemical filtration... and most fertilisers fall in that category. So you are essentially wasting most of your fertilisers. Instead, use water treatments to treat the water before adding to tank... like anti-chlorine/chloramine/heavy-metals. I use Tetra AquaSafe which I find very economical. Healthy plants will handle the rest.

Lighting period: 12 hours a day. 14 hrs max in my experience.

Lighting power and CO2 really depends on the type of plants you want to grow.
- Light demanding plants: you NEED CO2 injection and 3WPG (for conventional 3 feet long tanks and smaller) down to 2WPG (for conventional tanks 5 feet and bigger).
- Low and moderate light plants: Seachem Excel or similar product (Profito has a similar product, last seen at Nature Aquarium) 2WPG to 1.5WPG. Similarly, WPG goes down as tank size goes up.

DIY CO2? Forget it, in my opinion. With Seachem Excel and similar products available, DIY CO2 is simply too unreliable and inconsistent as a budget solution any more.

KH is mainly necessary to reduce the pH swing due to changes in the amount of CO2 gas in the water. Without CO2 gas, KH will raise pH, but in planted tanks, we aim for lower pH (6.5ish).

You can still have some KH to buffer against pH swing for whatever reason. Dose KH to 1dH is you are not using CO2 gas. 2dH is you use CO2 gas.

Excel type products are not CO2, but another compound that has carbon (C) which is what the plants really need from CO2 (or Excel type products). So KH is not necessary for Excel type products.

You already know: healthy plants = less algae. Focus on healthy plants. Remove algae physically. Get used to the idea that you will almost never be 100% free from algae.

From what I gather from your post, your plants are not doing well because:
- Activated carbon filtration is interfering with effective fertilisation.
- Inconsistent CO2 from DIY method.

What is your tank size?
How much total light?
Lighting hours?
Any direct sunlight? If yes, how many hours?
Tank near natural light (window, outdoor)? If yes, window facing (N, S, E, W)?
What plants are you growing?
How many fishes?
What species of fish?

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## jeffteo

Thanks again Vincent for being so patient and answering my questions.

I have removed the carbon last Friday before I start dosing Flourish and Flourish Excel. So KH is not really important to plants other than buffering the water? I my other thread, I asked about KH level is because I read that it is recommended to have 3-5 KH level for plants and proper growth of the snail shell. Or was it GH that matters? Getting confused from all the different source of info from the Internet.

I am trying DIY CO2 as an experiment as I read somewhere and gave me the idea of injecting DIY CO2 and dosing excel to supplement it. Actually the CO2 never worked so far as I am still experimenting with the concoction. I think I finally got the right combination last night. My new plants are still looking good so far. The only one that is not growing well was from the previous tank and should be due to insufficient light last time. It seems to be recovering and yesterday I noticed that the one that is totally trimmed is growing new leafs.  :Smile:  Kudos to the Flourish dose.

For my tank:
What is your tank size? - 2 feet 60L Hailea F60. The one that is deeper with higher side. Sump is half filled with 15L.
How much total light? - 24W 6500K PL Lamp
Lighting hours? - 10H
Any direct sunlight? If yes, how many hours? No
Tank near natural light (window, outdoor)? If yes, window facing (N, S, E, W)? No
What plants are you growing? Java fern, Fancy java fern, Anubias nana, Xmas and Flame moss, Moss balls.
How many fishes? Overstocked already, 39 (Planning to move some to a 10L Nano planted when I have it done)
What species of fish? 4 Danio, 6 Harlequin, 15 Neon Tetra, 5 Cherry Barb, 1 Pristella Tetra, 4 Albino & 4 Leopard Cory + 4 Horned Nerite Snail

Will be starting a journal on my Nano planted when I get the 2nd hand tank this weekend. Will need more advice then as it is my first real planted tank with soil. Already bought the GEX soil yesterday. If i can get the temp down without a coolant based chiller(which is overkill for a Nano even with the smallest one), may try shrimp also.  :Smile:

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## vinz

So you have about 1.5 WPG... that's a low light tank for sure. All your plants are moderate to low light plants, so should be ok. Though a little more will help the plants grow faster and more and beat the algae. Moss balls? You mean the marimo algae balls?

XMas moss tends to do better in cooler temps, if I recall correctly. Not sure about Flame moss. But try and see. :-)

One thing SG water seems to lack is GH... or more directly Calcium and Magnesium. My plants seem to do better when I dose these two in addition to the usual stuff. I find Seachem Equilibrium to be a good source, but have to tweak the dosing to keep pH low... especially without CO2.

Overstock = good for algae. Especially in a low light tank with slower plants.

If you are dosing Excel, forget the DIY CO2. The plants you have do quite well with just Excel. There are plants who would do better with CO2 then Excel, but not these.

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## marcusth

Well explained

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## jeffteo

Yes, the Marimo moss ball. I have 6 big ones and 20+ Nano one in the tank. Maybe will move a few of them over to the Nano tank together with the Xmas Moss.
And yes, Xmas moss grow better in cooler temperature. Ever since I manage to lower the tank temperature to below 29, it starts growing again. When I first set up the tank and did not install any fans, the temperature of the tank went above 30 and it turned dark and start falling apart. Now i can see new greens growing again. Phew~

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## jeffteo

Here are some update of the new leafs of the Windelov's Fern that grew after I started dosing the liquid fertilizer.

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## jeffteo

Oh oh, spot algae growing on the big Nana leafs.
Did 50% WC this evening and reduced photo period to 8 hours a day.

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## vinz

Anubias tend to attract spot algae. They need to be shaded.

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## jeffteo

Yup, waiting for the Java fern to grow taller and over it. Will be getting some large floating plants soon. C328 here I come...
Should have get it the last time round but don't know which one should I get. Afraid either grow too big or else too small get stuck in the filter intake. haiz...

The Nerite snail must be too busy with the old algae from the previous tank...

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## creech

I've spot algae on my nana too and horn nerite snails do help, I tends to move them and put it on the nana as I noticed they usually work in a specific zone and only leave once the zone is clear.

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## jeffteo

Haha, I thought of that also and thats what I did for my fern. They are real good at removing algae. Last night I can only find 1 out of 3 and it is sleeping so don't disturb it first. The other 2 MIA and don't know where they hiding. Later will go hunt for them again and move them over. The Horned Nerite snail only eat certain type of 2D algae right?
I ordered Salvinia Natans and Amazon Frogbits floater from Mizuworld and it is coming tomorrow. Hope it will help shade the Nana and not take over the surface.

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## felix_fx2

> Haha, I thought of that also and thats what I did for my fern. They are real good at removing algae. Last night I can only find 1 out of 3 and it is sleeping so don't disturb it first. The other 2 MIA and don't know where they hiding. Later will go hunt for them again and move them over. The Horned Nerite snail only eat certain type of 2D algae right?
> I ordered Salvinia Natans and Amazon Frogbits floater from Mizuworld and it is coming tomorrow. Hope it will help shade the Nana and not take over the surface.


jeff, i live OPP CHIJ TP, if you need frogbits and Salvinia take from me next time. I have Hortworts and Ramshorn if you want.
If you wish to try Co2 can loan mine? my 3footer has been going without Co2 for a while.

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## jeffteo

Thanks for the offer.  :Smile: 
I bought the Frogbits and Salvinia about 3 weeks ago already le. But I only put the Frogbits in, Salvina is in my quarantine tank testing out its growth. Don't know if it will take over my tank. With DIY CO2 and excel dosing, the temporary pearl grass is actually pearling in my tank. These carbon injection is really speeding things up, my dying Christmas Moss is now growing back new nice fonds.

Added in 2 Oto and my tank looks spotless now. Got to increase the photo period for the algae to keep up with the Oto and Nerite snail. Really learn alot and got alot of tips from you guys in AQ and my tank is in tip top condition now. Thanks to all!

Re-tie the Christmas Moss this week to cover the botak areas due to die off.


Nana is spotless and with new leafs growing. Cut off the bigger one on top as they attract more algae growth.

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