# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Catfishes >  Hypancistrus L399/L400 setup

## Edmundo

Keeping them since 2007 but with no breeding result. However, during the recently transfer of brooder, i found a recent purchased 4" male trapping the only female but no egss were found. But at least a some hope to look forward to in this new setup.



Brooder stock
5 males and 1 female

The probable pair

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## celticfish

Look like you have two side of the "sex equation"!  :Grin: 
The one on the right can fall either way (male or female) but its looking male ffrom your picture.

Here's a spinner for you to consider.
The female fish could pass for a L174 too IMHO...  :Opps:

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## Savant

Looks rather like a L174... good luck with the breeding!

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## Gecko

Not 174 eyes.

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## drakeho

> Not 174 eyes.


 
Is it from the size of the eyes where you ID them from ? Thank you shifu  :Grin:

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## Edmundo

> Look like you have two side of the "sex equation"! 
> The one on the right can fall either way (male or female) but its looking male ffrom your picture.
> 
> Here's a spinner for you to consider.
> The female fish could pass for a L174 too IMHO...





> Looks rather like a L174... good luck with the breeding!


L174? hmm, L174s are spotted throughout the entire fish although little may appears in short wormline, am i right? Or could you describe how a L174 should look like?




> Is it from the size of the eyes where you ID them from ? Thank you shifu


Can share some L174 pics?

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## celticfish

I was just going by the body shape.
It made me think of drakeho's L174.
Oh, I did recall something mentioned about the proportion of the eye to body too.
But cannot remember it now...  :Opps:

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## Savant

I generally use their difference in sizes to tell if its a L174 or a L400 (i.e. L174 is much smaller)... Also the spots on the L174 appears to be more round, whereas those on the L400 seem to join up to form squiggles in some places... But I'm no expert...

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## weiquan

From my exprience. i believe the big piece from at the extreme left is a L400, should be a male. He looks quite identical to my alpha male L400. You could refer to my thread for some pictures of my L400s. 

Whereas im quite sure the other 2 pieces is a L174. i actually have both L174 and L400. But i have difficultly in using words to differeniate them but when you see them in real life its really quite different on the whole. you could see drakho's thread for more pictures of L174.

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## drakeho

Attached link to the L174 thread

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=51286

Both looks the same to me ... Only the size is different when only full grown ... But base on what irwin and gecko has said , the eyes of the L174 do look abit smaller for its body compared to the 400 . Can someone help to confirm on this ?  :Grin:

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## drakeho

Let me attach some close-up shots of the L174 eyes . Maybe someone can add-on with a side view of the L400 to compare ?



Small eyes

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## johannes

L174 has tiny eyes that made them look like cories.. :Smile:  (serious... here, especially the fat ones.. :Laughing: )

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## weiquan

old pictures of my L400 alpha male, he is much hairer now.

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## Edmundo

Manage to dig some old pic of the gravid female

Here it goes. L174?






> From my exprience. i believe the big piece from at the extreme left is a L400, should be a male. He looks quite identical to my alpha male L400. You could refer to my thread for some pictures of my L400s. 
> 
> Whereas im quite sure the other 2 pieces is a L174. i actually have both L174 and L400. But i have difficultly in using words to differeniate them but when you see them in real life its really quite different on the whole. you could see drakho's thread for more pictures of L174.


The second piece is from Gecko, he should know bet*ter* what he actual*ly* paid for........... cheers  :Smile: 

The reason why i ID it as L400 is to simplify matters. *Because* i has totaly clueless what it actual*ly* is (L287? L236?) this are the ID given when this female is imported.). If one say both are diff*erent* species i would agree, but definitely both arent L174. She is still left with 2 companion imported back then.

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## Edmundo

This is the current batch, pic taken before the alpha male is introduced.

So are they L174? the Two lighted color specimens are from Geckos. The 3 darker ones are imported as L287/L236. Frankly speaking if they are L174, i long sold them away and wouldn't have spend some much effort and perservance to breed them.  :Grin:

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## Edmundo

One more..........  :Smile:

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## Savant

Seems to me that the lighter coloured ones are L399/400, whereas the others look abit different...

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## Edmundo

Yup. they are different, one is import in 2007(NKS) and is 2008(not sure where gecko bought probably C328 )  :Smile: .

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## Savant

I have NKS 2008 L400/399s too... and what seems to be a trio... there was a trapping last week but no eggs... Will try to get pictures when I can find the time...

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## Edmundo

Last year NKS got hypancistrus shipment?

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## Savant

When i set up my first pleco tank last year for L46s... Due to the unavailability of L46s, I went on to buy my first set of exotic plecos from NKS (damn high price)... I think it was close to the end of the season at that time and the were not many pieces left, what was left were also not properly labeled. The old uncle at the shop also did not know how to ID them (I just picked out what I thought were nice and brought back for the bros to help ID later)...

These were IDed to be 3 pieces of L400/399, 3-4 pieces of L333, 1 piece of H.contradens and 1-2 pieces of L66... Think they were all priced in the range of $60+ per piece... as I had L46s in mind, the prices seemed a small sum to pay for so many plecos...

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## Edmundo

> When i set up my first pleco tank last year for L46s... Due to the unavailability of L46s, I went on to buy my first set of exotic plecos from NKS (damn high price)... I think it was close to the end of the season at that time and the were not many pieces left, what was left were also not properly labeled. The old uncle at the shop also did not know how to ID them (I just picked out what I thought were nice and brought back for the bros to help ID later)...
> 
> These were IDed to be 3 pieces of L400/399, 3-4 pieces of L333, 1 piece of H.contradens and 1-2 pieces of L66... Think they were all priced in the range of $60+ per piece... as I had L46s in mind, the prices seemed a small sum to pay for so many plecos...


 
i see, great catch i would say. Any pics of your L399/L400?  :Smile:

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## Savant



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## eeeeemo

> Manage to dig some old pic of the gravid female
> 
> Here it goes. L174?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second piece is from Gecko, he should know bet*ter* what he actual*ly* paid for........... cheers 
> ...


imo, this above is neither a L174 or a L399/400.

the patterns are way off.. a very typical pattern, if you look at savant's and weiquan's pics, is dots which may form into very very short individual lines at the front of the body, then very clear and well defined dots at the ending part of the body nearing the tail.

L174 have dots too but most specimens of L174 have less numbers but bigger sized dots. another way to differentiate L174 from L400 is the maximum size as well as body shape from the top.

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## Savant

I think that is one of the main problem with the L66,L399,L400,Lower Xingu group of fishes.... they look too similar!!

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## Edmundo

> imo, this above is neither a L174 or a L399/400.
> 
> the patterns are way off.. a very typical pattern, if you look at savant's and weiquan's pics, is dots which may form into very very short individual lines at the front of the body, then very clear and well defined dots at the ending part of the body nearing the tail.
> 
> L174 have dots too but most specimens of L174 have less numbers but bigger sized dots. another way to differentiate L174 from L400 is the maximum size as well as body shape from the top.


Yup. totally agree to your deductions.  :Smile:

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## Edmundo

> I think that is one of the main problem with the L66,L399,L400,Lower Xingu group of fishes.... they look too similar!!


Rio Iriri is another good place to find nice champion looking hypancistrus.........  :Smile:

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## Edmundo

> 


wish you success also........... cheers  :Smile:

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## Jordi

> 




very nice tank setup! nice big dw  :Smile:

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## weiquan

> One more..........


i might not be right but it will easier differenitate when seeing it live but its ok i just try my best to share pictures and hope *you* can come to a conculsion. you really have wonderful pieces by the way.

here are some old pictures of my L400 males taken long ago from top view.

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## eeeeemo

hmmm that female may be a L345! or at least the MAIN pic they used on PC for L345.

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## Edmundo

> i might not be right but it will easier differenitate when seeing it live but its ok i just try my best to share pictures and hope u can come to a conculsion. you really have wonderful pieces by the way.
> 
> here are some old pictures of my male L400 taken long ago from top view.


 
No worries, i do err in IDing also. We learn from each other all the while.  :Smile:

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## Gecko

> The second piece is from Gecko, he should know bet*ter* what he actual*ly* paid for........... cheers


 :Laughing:  

Got them because I didn't know what they were! I just know what they were Not. These are early NKS and probably the 1st "L173" shipments to come in at FH. I know they are not L173, and not L236 as claimed. They are definitely not L174, 66 or 333 and in those earlier days, L number has not reached L399/400 yet. Now after one big round, I decided I like lower xingu types (which I think they are most likely) so if you tire of them, I am ready to take them back :Grin:

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## Edmundo

Finally you visited thread. in fact im waiting for you to call me again............ thats why i made new setup..........  :Grin:

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## Cup

Your fish are all in the 39/400 group. They are a very variable animal, and these certainly aren't L-174.

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## Edmundo

> Your fish are all in the 39/400 group. They are a very variable animal, and these certainly aren't L-174.


that's great. No cross breeding.  :Smile:

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## Cup

True. Good luck with them. They are very beautiful.

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