# General > Member's Lounge > Photography >  Planning to get my first DSLR

## uklau

Fellow forumers,

After been hibernating for almost 12 years (time flies!), my hands are getting extremely itchy to get myself a DSLR (especially after I picked up planted tank hobby a couple of years back & with the arrival of my baby girl recently). I was a Nikon user (FM200 & F90) back then with several Nikon lenses. Since I've not been in touch with this industry for so long, I'll like to gather some opinions from fellow hobbyist on the followings:

1) Is there any chance that I can trade in my existing gear  :Grin: ?
2) Which are the retailer who offers great price (like NA & C328 in this hobby)?
3) Is there any specific time of the year, which retailers will offer better price than usual? eg: great singapore sales, comex, etc.

If these information are sensitive, please feel free to PM me. My options are open only to Nikon & Canon.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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## Wackytpt

Why not try Canon =p

There are a few Nikon users in here.

People like Goondoo, Wasabi**, Stan Chung, etc


PS : I will get slaughter by the Nikon users.. haha..BUT CANON ROCKS!! =p

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## hwchoy

as an ex-Nikon user you would probably feel more comfortable going with Nikon again. I also feel that Nikon's entry-level models are better featured and built than Canon's. However the mid range onwards Canon does have some very good ones, especially the pro bodies.

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## cairocks

One camera shop I frequent is John 3:16 in Funan. Very friendly and helpful staff but may have to wait for your turn to be served when the shop is crowded. I used to hang around the shop even if not buying stuff but to try out new gadgets.

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## hwchoy

you can get equotes from MS Color and Cathay website.

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## tawauboy

do note that d40, d40x and d60 will autofocus with afs lenses only. the motor in these bodies are removed.
there are a number of reasonably good kit lenses available.

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## Shadow

> I also feel that Nikon's entry-level models are better featured and built than Canon's. However the mid range onwards Canon does have some very good ones, especially the pro bodies.


Not the other way around?

When I was planning to buy DSLR, I did some reading, comparing between D40X and 400D (both at the same price point at that time, not sure now) and I found that 400D is better. I can be wrong though  :Embarassed:

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## hwchoy

the built of the canon xxxD series took off a huge chunk of points  :Grin:

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## benetay

Yes so isn't it time to upgrade to the 1D series?  :Huh?:

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## hwchoy

its ok the 20D with batt grip still feels great in the hand ;p

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## luenny

I have one word for you - *D700!*  :Grin:

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## hwchoy

nooo, a used 5D with grip  so I can still use my L lenses

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## benetay

So when you getting? I'm still toying with the idea  :Laughing:

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## jason6142004

> I have one word for you - *D700!*



how about a 1Ds mark III with some L lenses?

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## luenny

Yeah, 1D Mark III is how much?? D700 is how much?? How much more lenses or accessories (flash, tripod, etc) you can get with just the difference in body price??

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## hwchoy

but the 1DMkIII is not full frame, you need to get the 1DsMkIII. however the 1D/1Ds series are pro bodies which the D700 is not. can't really compare.

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## Shadow

Sorry I'm lost, what is considered as pro bodies? Newbie here

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## luenny

Pro bodies is body that is used by professional  :Grin:  hahaha!! 

Anyway, I thought the D700 is describe as compact professional DSLR. Is it not pro body?

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## quix

hahaha pro bodies just means the top end of the camera range which packs the most sophisticated/high end features required by professionals. But a lot of non-professionals like yours truly also shamelessly use them. 

I think D700 and D300 are also almost pro-level if you look at the features. I certainly don't think D300 is inferior than my 1DM2N in any significant way, having tried it myself. Don't think there are any guidelines which specifies what is considered pro. It's just marketing and positioning!

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## budak

I used to think 'pro' bodies (5D, 1-series, D3, D2X), also came without built-in flashes so that the weather-sealing would have no weak links. The D700 comes with one though; either Nikon thought it's a feature people want or they managed to secure the hatch more tightly....?

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## hwchoy

the description "pro-body" truly means "used by professionals" and this does not always mean it has the most features such as megapixel. it means it is designed with the professional photographers and their unique requirements in mind, eg weather seal, super tough body, build-in grip (for battery capacity and weather protection), super sensitive AF sensors, etc etc.

so the latest 40D maybe more "capable" than an old 1D but a professional photographer may still chose the old 1D pro body due to the other features.

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## hwchoy

actually 5D is not considered a pro body, in canon parlance only the 1-series are pro.

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## Shadow

I was told by freelance friend to invest money on the lens insetad of the body. is that true? Does the 1000D for example able to take same quality of photo as 40D with the same lens?

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## hwchoy

this is a statement many of us repeated umpteen times. however having said that, you cannot expect a 1000D to perform the same as a 40D *as an overall package and in all circumstances*. just as an L lens vs a normal lens, under many situation the normal lens will perform adequately, but under some difficult conditions only higher end bodies and L lenses can deliver. so buy the body that you like to use and serves your need adequately and that's it.

consider my 20D body, I bought it second hand and I still feel it performs more than adequately for the shots I do. on the other hand I have not hesitated to acquire the necessary L lenses I needed eg 50/1.2L because the other lenses simply will not deliver under the situation I use them in. each of these lenses easily cost more than the 20D body.

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## benny

> I was told by freelance friend to invest money on the lens insetad of the body. is that true? Does the 1000D for example able to take same quality of photo as 40D with the same lens?


Perspective will be the same with different cameras (assuming crop factor is constant).

In financial terms, the lens will usually depreciate much less than the body. My 2002 Canon D60 is now worth less than 10&#37; of the purchase price. The 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM purchased at S$1080 can still be sold for about S$600 despite the price adjustment and exchange rate losses. So that's only a 40% loss. Based on today's purchase price, it's only a 25% loss

Cheers,

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## luenny

> I was told by freelance friend to invest money on the lens insetad of the body. is that true? Does the 1000D for example able to take same quality of photo as 40D with the same lens?


Robert,
I think your friend is wrong. You should invest in good lens AND good body.  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

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## hwchoy

you are evil  :Kiss:

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## quix

Yeah like I was advised by many evil doers some time back, don't bother flipping through all the lens/cam catalog. Just turn to the last couple of pages, buy the best you can afford and be done with it! hahaha
Seriously, think carefully what kind of photography you intend to do, and buy the best your budget can allow. It's actually very expensive to buy low, get itchy, then sell and upgrade again and again. I did that and regretted.  :Smile:

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## StanChung

If you buy the latest, you will probably regret less as the next model would come out much later. If you buy the 2nd latest, you will be wondering what if.

Either way you're damned if you do or don't.

I think the new D90 is worthwhile looking at. D300 sensor in a more affordable body. Good enough to last you quite awhile and seriously nifty video recording feature. Not out yet though. I think I'm getting one to back up my trusty brick-the D200. D700 is a bit out of reach at the moment.  :Sad:

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## Simon

Ask yourself what you want from a DSLR, these days you can find almost anything except as a mobile phone device on the DLSR  :Grin: . While lenses play an equal part in photography, the functions and limit of a DSLR body should not be ignored. 

I agree with stan, get the current latest model unless you just want to try photography and don't really know whether or not you going to invest both time and money on it in the future then getting a older model is feasible.

Indeed Nikon now controls the entry level range, but the mid aka semi pro and Pro bodies is still uncertain. The learning curve for Nikon D3 is higher than the Canon's 1D series (quoted from a photographer with both DSLR), perhaps Wasabi888 can give you comments on how long he took to get used to his D3 and now thinking of selling it off for a lighter, less complicated semi pro range  :Laughing: 

When I'm out catching butterflies, I will hear fellow photographers from the Nikon and Sony camps on how they would have to adjust their flash, exposure compensation & etc. I told them for canon, I simply switch on my DSLR, point and shoot  :Laughing:

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## hwchoy

> perhaps Wasabi888 can give you comments on how long he took to get used to his D3 and now thinking of selling it off for a lighter, less complicated semi pro range


religious faecal material!!!






> When I'm out catching butterflies, I will hear fellow photographers from the Nikon and Sony camps on how they would have to adjust their flash, exposure compensation & etc. I told them for canon, I simply switch on my DSLR, point and shoot


but I thought N-brand's "ETTL" is much more consistent and better?

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## StanChung

I think D3 is too much camera for newbie but if money is no object and you want bragging rights...[will look a little foolish]

But if you're familiar with Nikon controls, it's much easier to adapt.

I have no idea how to navigate a Canon. A Nikon makes so much more sense since I started on Fm2, F80 now D200.
In the end the only important dails you need to know is controlling exposure and focussing. The rest are just enhancements you will pick up along the way.

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## whiskerbreed

Hey, can anyone recommend a good and cheap DSLR for beginners?
I know nuts about photography but I want to invest in a good DSLR (don't talk about those pro bodies) to shoot my fishes.
I have many small fishes so it'll be better if the DSLR is good in macro shots (I know I have to invest in lens for this).
I'm looking at Nikon's D40X and D60.

Any recommendations, suggestions please?


SuD
 :Cool:

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## hwchoy

if you know nuts about photography then you need to learn it. buying equipment will not overcome your lack of knowledge, particularly in the area of small fish macro.

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## whiskerbreed

> if you know nuts about photography then you need to learn it. buying equipment will not overcome your lack of knowledge, particularly in the area of small fish macro.


Yeah, I'm slowly learning bit by bit..
I guess it'll be some time before I get one...
 :Sad: 


SuD
 :Cool:

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## hwchoy

I'd suggest you get one and learn the basics before attempting small fish macro.

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## Simon

> religious faecal material!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I thought N-brand's "ETTL" is much more consistent and better?


Metering on the Nikon is always better, however unlike the Canon flash system, you need to adjust for a better controlled exposure

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## luenny

I believe no matter which camera brand you use, adjustment or not is just a personal taste. That's just depends on how you want the shot to turn out. I'm sure if you pass me a Canon, or any other brand for that matter, I'll still be doing the same thing - which is shooting 20 frames on a subject with different flash compensation, exposure compensation, placement of lighting, etc. It doesn't mean the camera system is not good, it's just the way we shoot. Just like how I almost never shoot macro with my flash mounted on the camera anymore but some people never dismount their flash when they shoot macro. Which is a better camera system? Beats me.

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## exotic_idiot

How about olympus brand? Any recommendation? Good and reliable cameras... Normally how much do we have to fork out for something like that?

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## juggler

> I was told by freelance friend to invest money on the lens insetad of the body. is that true? Does the 1000D for example able to take same quality of photo as 40D with the same lens?


Back in the film days, this statement would have been true.
Then, a camera is just a black box and the lens and film played the more important part.

But now, for DSLR, the sensor ("film") is built into the camera body. So a higher end camera would be better.

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## Simon

Actually, I still believe the quality of the lenses will at the end of the day determine the result. However, it will not make a bad photographer good or a bad photograph good. The differences in the series of bodies is in the ergonomics, functional features, the sensor and the chipset.

At the end of the day, the determinant of a good photograph lies within the photographer's knowledge of his tools (camera and lenses)

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## StanChung

Buy the best you can afford, shoot the heck out of it and then never read another review for a year at least or you'll be coveting the latest soon after you bought yours.

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## exotic_idiot

> Back in the film days, this statement would have been true.
> Then, a camera is just a black box and the lens and film played the more important part.
> 
> But now, for DSLR, the sensor ("film") is built into the camera body. So a higher end camera would be better.


How much high end have to go? $500 enough?




> Actually, I still believe the quality of the lenses will at the end of the day determine the result. However, it will not make a bad photographer good or a bad photograph good. The differences in the series of bodies is in the ergonomics, functional features, the sensor and the chipset.
> 
> *At the end of the day, the determinant of a good photograph lies within the photographer's knowledge of his tools (camera and lenses*)


Heheee i like that.. 




> Buy the best you can afford, shoot the heck out of it and then never read another review for a year at least or you'll be coveting the latest soon after you bought yours.


Hahahaaa will do that too.. maximum i can afford then just keep learn with it, the functions everything... 

But bros... Hmm $500 enough? DSLR i think more than that right?
Sorry budget limits if not sure buy anytime.. Haiz i still got to save that amount first...
Thought maybe you guys got intro for olympus's camera... Just found this link.. http://asia.cnet.com/readerschoice/2.../best_dslr.htm
But it's 2005/06 about 2 years back..

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## exotic_idiot

Is this the latest? 2006/07..
http://asia.cnet.com/readerschoice/2.../best_dslr.htm

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## StanChung

That's a tad low. If you plan to shoot fishes, off camera flash is desirable if not prerequisite. That alone could set you back $500+.

I suspect you need around $2000. Camera+Kit lens+flash+cable+tripod. Bear in mind, for this amount you are getting very basic stuff. The 2nd hand market may be able to offer you some good deals with the new cameras announced recently. A lot of people may be upgrading based on the OOO and WAAAH comments.

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## luenny

$500?? I just spend close to $2K for upgrades recently and it includes neither a camera body nor lens.  :Grin:

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## Shadow

what lens did you bought this time?  :Smile:  lucky I manage to stay away from this hobby  :Razz:

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## luenny

No lens. No body also.

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## hwchoy

tripod loh hahaha.

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## StanChung

Good investment. RRS? Gitzo? Manfrotto or some other designer brand that works? Flash system as well? SB900? Do tell. :P

My friend bought a Gitzo recently and spent RM2K+ because of his shaky old tripod. Shot fireworks and using a remote release did not help as his tripod shook every time the mirror slapped up. The pictures appeared fuzzy despite weighting the tripod with a bag. This is because of the 1-40+ second exposures as well, black card and all.

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## luenny

Gitzo tripod, markins head, wimberly flash bracket, extra flash (SB600). No biggie.

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## benetay

i'm using a Gitzo with kangrinpoche NB-2A ball head, did a 2/1/2 hours open shutter leaving the tripod out in the cold. Nothing happen. 

I think Benny got quite a complete range of tripods & ballhead. He should be the man to share with us all of the insights! Can still remember his gitzo tripod with his name engrave on it. So much for customization!

Cheers!

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## luenny

Yeah, heard about kangrinpoche NB-2A. Quite good reviews for it too. Heard that in terms of stability it's about on par with the Markins M-10. Anyway, as long as it works, it's good.

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## Shadow

is that really necessary? is the new tripot and head improve your photo quality?

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## StanChung

If you have to ask, you have not reached the stage of the different types of photography.

A good tripod and ball head is essential for slow shutter speeds and not to mention speedy framing. It's also great for HDR-[high dynamic range] shots where you shoot at least two shots locked off at different exposures in RAW to combine them to maximize dynamic range.

A tripod is also great for waiting. Waiting for the subject like animals to perform.

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## luenny

Yup, I guess Stan's first sentence sums it up. If you have to ask ...

Anyway, just want to add, it is also good for stacking. For me it is essential, that's why I upgrade. My previous Manfrotto setup is not bad, but with the extra load I put it, it creeps under certain conditions. But I guess that setup is good enough for most other users.

See, never go shooting when I ask you to, that's why you don't know about this.  :Grin:

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## Shadow

:Laughing:  make me wonder what is your current set up look a like  :Grin:

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## exotic_idiot

> That's a tad low. If you plan to shoot fishes, off camera flash is desirable if not prerequisite. That alone could set you back $500+.
> 
> I suspect you need around $2000. Camera+Kit lens+flash+cable+tripod. Bear in mind, for this amount you are getting very basic stuff. The 2nd hand market may be able to offer you some good deals with the new cameras announced recently. A lot of people may be upgrading based on the OOO and WAAAH comments.





> $500?? I just spend close to $2K for upgrades recently and it includes neither a camera body nor lens.


Haha :Grin:  Think i can use the $500 to buy fishes instead and invite you guys with great knowlege of photography come my house take pics???
Anyone helpful enough?

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## hwchoy

no, spend your $500 on fishes and loan it to us to photograph. your tank at home are likely to not be conducive for photography

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## StanChung

I think your fishes have to be exotic enough for Choy to take out his 'L' series... :Laughing: 

500 should be ok...  :Laughing:

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## hwchoy

au contraire, the fishes I like best are those colourless ones from longkangs that nobody even knew are there

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## exotic_idiot

> no, spend your $500 on fishes and loan it to us to photograph. your tank at home are likely to not be conducive for photography





> I think your fishes have to be exotic enough for Choy to take out his 'L' series...
> 
> 500 should be ok...


How exotic??? Hahaaa not a bad idea... How about apistos? I think $500 can buy a very decent pair..




> au contraire, the fishes I like best are those colourless ones from longkangs that nobody even knew are there


Maybe we can arrange for a outing together go catch some longkangs fish? :Grin:  Last time when i was small always ride my bmx go catch tadpoles and blood sucking bugs... Now spend $4 for 30mins let my daughter catch guppies at farmway, safer this way... Hahaa but end up all the guppies caught there all very short lifespan :Knockout:

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## luenny

Hmmm .... go catch bugs?? Cool, I'll bring my camera and shoot the bugs.

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## uklau

Thanks to everyone for helping out. It's homework time for me...

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## Shadow

> Hmmm .... go catch bugs?? Cool, I'll bring my camera and shoot the bugs.


I bring camera and shoot luenny shoot the bugs  :Laughing:

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## Shadow

> Thanks to everyone for helping out. It's homework time for me...


so have you decided which one?

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## uklau

> so have you decided which one?


How I wish I can buy what I have in mind like what I used to do 20 years ago  :Laughing: . Now, I own a "little Ferrari" at home. Need to start spending wisely.

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## RHX

Hi all. I was looking at Canon D600, D60 & Nikon D5100 for my first DSLR. I did a bit of reading on the reviews, it seems like Canon is more ergonomic & easier to handle, whereas Nikon's color is more natural & have better quality Lens. I've had a Canon S90 & was pretty comfortable with it. Should I stick with Canon?
I plan to spend 2k for it. Should I go for better body & upgrade the lens later or get a lower range body but with better lens? 
I've read on some forums & they recommend getting higher range older generation Nikon body (D90) to save on the cost to get better lens. Is there anyplace in Singapore that sells older generation model Nikon cameras at a lower price?

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## Simon

First off, how ergonomic a camera is, will all depend on individual. I suggest you go to a camera shop and try them out for you.
I do not know where you read that Nikon as better quality lenses, but let me assure you that canon is equally the same quality as a Nikon.
Both brands have their own top of the line lenses, Nikon with their trinity lenses and Canon has its own L series. You probably wouldn't go near these lenses at this stage.

One thing I know from many years of photography is, technology on camera bodies is ever changing but not lenses. Hence, get a reasonable body to start with and a proper lens to go with it.
I have changed 3 bodies and still use the same lenses I have. Whether to spurge on lenses will depends on (1) How deep your pocket (2) How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go  :Smile: 

DSLR are so common these days, kids, teenages, adults, elderly are seen using them. But is it really what you need?

Ask yourself, do I need a DSLR, if yes, why so? can a prosumer camera do the same? For some people, a DSLR will produce the best image, (true or false)
With the abundant of choices available these days, it is hard to determine which camera will suit your needs.

1) DSLR, (crop factor or Full frame)
Pros: allows you the flexibility and choice of different focal length, different effect filters, dedicated lenses.
Cons: Weight, cost

2) The P&S (Point and Shoot) commonly known as the consumer digital camera
Pros: Economical, light
Cons: Limitation

3) The Prosumer (a level higher than the P&S)
Pros: more control than a P&S, slightly bulky
Cons: More expensive than your P&S, you can buy a entry-level DSLR

4) Prosumer with interchangeable lens
Pros: Lighter than a DSLR
Cons: No idea  :Smile: 

My suggestion to you (if you still choose to get a DSLR) is get either a entry level or semi pro camera body (latest, not unless you grow out of it fast and will upgrade) Growing out means hitting the limit of the camera. Not getting tired of the looks  :Smile: 

Do you travel? have you thought of lugging along a DSLR? I go for annual trips and bring along a body with at least 2 lenses, flash, battery grip & etc. Apart from it, I also have a prosumer camera for those handy shots that I want to snap if my DSLR is not in ready.

If you see yourself exploring into the world of photography, by all means go for a DSLR. Otherwise, stick to a prosumer camera. Will save you alot of trouble and money.
Photography is a bottomless pit. The further you go, the more you will buy. Alot of people I met do not understand it until they get a DSLR. Then you hear they rant about how expensive good lenses are and when you buy one thing, you probably upgrade your existing stuff as well  :Smile: .

I shall not debate your choice of brands, I'm a Canon user. I think whichever brand you choose (Nikon or Canon) it is your photograph that does the talking.

Best place to get a older model? go to clubsnap and buy a 2nd hand camera. Shops wouldn't sell you a older model cheap because there is a newer model.

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## eddy planer

Hi RHX

I did ask Simon for the advice of getting new DSLR camera. I thought of Sony A70 but he against Sony, and I took his advice ...I got new Canon 60D with 200mm lens last Dec.

Wow love it loves it...the Canon 60D. :Well done:

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## RHX

Thanks for the advice, I'll go their showroom to try them out.

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## Simon

I suggest you go to places like Cathay photo at penisular or marine square, TKphoto or John 3:16 at Funan center to try out the brands and cameras of your choice

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## Shadow

How about those mirror less DSLR like Sony Alpha NEX-5? Anyone using it? If not mistaken Sony is the only one that using APS-C sensor the rest of the competitor is using smaller sensor. I'm itchy to get one but lens still limited though  :Opps:

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