# General > Member's Lounge > Nature and Conservation >  Inhumane treatment of pests?

## floatbloat

*Comment: this thread is split from Mervin's thread "You want?" in Vivariums. As it's getting off-topic, but interesting, I've split this out. There may be some dis-jointed mini-threads within. Some of the posts were made half in jest, and some people may take offence at the frivolity. I do hope that followup posters will temper their words to avoid a flamewar. It is an interesting topic which I think we can take furthur... but in a civil way please. We can disagree, but let's not fight. ~ Vinz*

hi, bulls are quite common in the 'wild'. indeed very noisy and prolific. just not in numbers as extreme as cane toads per se, but who knows?

----------


## XnSdVd

Actually all I saw was cane toads and this small brown frog with a dark brown "lateral line" kinda marking. 
As for which jungle and why, it was Hong Kah and Lentor. With the ARMY  :Wink:

----------


## floatbloat

what?  :Shocked:  cane toads have reached singapore? i dont think so eh...they have just crossed the border into western australia, i believe a year or so back. i dont think they could've swam across...not that quickly anyway, considering its size heh

----------


## vinz

LOL... floatbloat, if frogs swam in seawater, they'll probably find themselves as "sink-shrink".

Cane toads is bad news for any ecology (except it's own native one)... not good for pets with a penchance to eat or play with frogs/toads too.

----------


## floatbloat

my friends used to tell me stories of them playing golf with the cane toads, i.e using canetoads as big golf balls. i dont think the cane toads can actually hold clubs but who knows what a few licks can do?

perhaps someone trying to outdo tiger woods managed to hit a few over to our shores? if so, no worries. we can launch an offensive (thanks NS for making me think this way) and catapult them back. who needs nuclear weapons when we have cane toads?

----------


## vinz

Owwww... as toxic and bad for the ecology they are, I don't think the toads deserve to be treated as golf balls. That's a really bad thing to do. Afterall, it was humans who imported them into the wrong ecology. Whatever harm they caused wasn't they fault.

Speaking of NS, if the cane toads make it to Sg shores, we'll probably have to deploy the army to do a man... errr... toad-hunt like we did when the armed robbers from johor "invaded" P. Tekong.  :Razz:

----------


## Justikanz

If there really are cane toads, then it will be a battle between the toads and the bulls!  :Razz:  Anyway, if really they are here, could be from some unsuspecting Singaporean could have brought some back intending for them as pets and they escaped? Hmm...  :Huh?:

----------


## vinz

As for running around the Sg "jungles" blind... well, my unit tends to do it in the dead of night, so I usually hear the fauna, and not see them. Or feel them... had some large spiky insect like a grasshopper or mantis fly in my face once in total darkness.

My unit also tends to fly us over the "jungles", so unless we get pelted by cane toads launched by insensitive golfers, I wouldn't have seen them either.

In the day... we hide... and so do most of the fauna.

Now this thread is really going off-topic.  :Razz:

----------


## Justikanz

> Owwww... as toxic and bad for the ecology they are, I don't think the toads deserve to be treated as golf balls. That's a really bad thing to do. Afterall, it was humans who imported them into the wrong ecology. Whatever harm they caused wasn't they fault.


Human nature lah... Try telling those that shout 'Cull cats' during SARS and now 'Kill the wild birds' with the avian flu!...  :Mad:   :Mad:  As if it is the animals' fault!...

Sorry ah... Just venting some frustration... No offense to all... Unless one happens to belong to those mentioned above... Then too bad lor... To each his own mah...  :Roll Eyes:   :Grin:  

Cheers!

----------


## floatbloat

yup it's kinda cruel. when they drive, they apparently swerve to aim for a toad that's facing them, so that when the toad gets run over, u hear a loud pop. from wad ive heard, it seems like everyone's doing it in... mmm... queensland i think. 

i also watched a film called 'he died with a felafel in his hand', and has a shot of this character gearing up for golf and whacking a canetoad out of sight. i was "ugh' and thats how the stories started pouring out from my friends  :Smile:  

apparently the cane toads are a huge problem. lets just hope we wont be golfing american bullfrogs anytime soon.

----------


## XnSdVd

Aren't cane toads those brown, warty buggers with the poison glands behind the eyes? I'm pretty sure I've seen them around for awhile... or was it a local lookalike? 

And yes, I can't stand those "kill anything sick" people. You don't see me yelling "Idiots must go!" when the economy goes into a slump do you?  :Wink:

----------


## vinz

I guess part of the problem is that the cane toads are a big enough danger (pets and toddlers die trying to eat this fellas, and there are no natural predators to control their population) there for the govt over there to close an eye on this. Seriously though, there are more humane ways to get rid of them. If you can catch them and use them as golfballs, I'm sure you can put them in a bucket and bring them somewhere to be out down humanely.

Now try using a baby koala as a footie ball and watch how fast the authorities and the greenies descend on your rear end.

----------


## floatbloat

i dunno- if koalas werent endemic and werent eating up things in their paths and werent so damn cuddly, they would've been in the footie fields by now haha  :Smile:  

i guess the bottom line is 'what is humane'? 

this is totally going off topic isnt it? nice to see how one topic leads to another though. 

hey vinz, how did the manhunt work out? got any mr/miss congenital terrorist or not?

----------


## Justikanz

Ah... Now that this is a separated topic... Heh heh...  :Grin: 

Another question is 'What is a pest?'... Perhaps the thread title can also be changed to 'Inhumane treatment of PERCIEVED pests'...  :Razz:  

A good example is the locusts... They are not introduced and it is their natural behaviour and life cycle to suddenly appear en mass... But humans percieved them as pests and kill them as humans had began growing crops in areas where they appear... Same as Elephants in Asia, Tigers in India and China, Big cats in Africa etc etc... They are not pests but the humans staying near them percieved them as pests...  :Razz:

----------


## stormhawk

Kanz, locusts are a problem in many places, especially in Africa. No matter how many people kill, thousands more appear each year to destroy precious crops meant for starving people. Every year, the people in locust-infested regions have to put up with swathes of destruction caused by these insects. You cannot blame them for taking the necessary steps to destroy the locusts.  :Opps:

----------


## Justikanz

I am not blaming them for destroying the locusts... Afterall, the locusts destroys the food that the people eat...  :Razz: 

It is just that if the locusts appear in the middle of a savanna surrounded by zebras and lions... Ah... Things will be different... Nobody will chap them, right? Because they are no longer percieved as pests as humans dun have crops there...  :Razz:  You get my drift...  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Yup I get your drift.  :Grin:  But the problem is, these critters don't appear where the lions and zebras are.  :Knockout:

----------


## vinz

Here's an interesting take...

Aren't humans pests in a way? We move into an area, destroy the natural environment, grow crops, build golf courses, homes, buildings...

Then when the native fauna comes and trys to survive or just do what they naturally do, we kill them...

----------


## Justikanz

Heh heh... That's why I say I dislike those that shout 'kill this and kill that' when diseases appear... Cos, if you think about it, humans are usually the ones who started them... Who asked them to eat the civets or house chickens in crowded, packed, unhygenic cages or the worst of all: sell dead chickens for food etc...?  :Grin:

----------


## budak

Even locusts aren't immune.The North American species became extinct when its sole breeding grounds were disturbed early last century.

----------


## ranmasatome

> Here's an interesting take...
> 
> Aren't humans pests in a way? We move into an area, destroy the natural environment, grow crops, build golf courses, homes, buildings...
> 
> Then when the native fauna comes and trys to survive or just do what they naturally do, we kill them...


MY take exactly... thanks for pointing this out Vinz. Its irony actually.. humans being the only species capable of saving the other species out there. Moves into what was previously other faunas space, developes the area, drives out local wildlife, then when they are plagued by what was previously there.. Humans complain and say that these "PEST" are invading "our"??? territory!! and then procedes to wipe them off the face of this earth as if its their fault!!! i mean!! c'mon!! its bloody ridiculous.

----------


## XnSdVd

-Points an accusing finger at all of you- 

SNAIL MURDERERS!!  :Surprised:  

Haha, but seriously, I doubt there's a proper defination for "pest". Generally anything people find annoying is a pest. Like SNAILS -glare-

----------


## budak

Those big snails commonly found on the roadside (or mashed up on the road) are actually from Africa.

----------


## Justikanz

XnSdVd, actually, I try not to kill them liao... I transfer them to 2 tanks, those in my room are the lucky ones, they go to my temp paludarium and they thrive... Those outside go to my Sultan Fish tank.. where the sultans will usually eat them the moment I place them in...  :Opps: 




> Those big snails commonly found on the roadside (or mashed up on the road) are actually from Africa.


Izzit?? Wow... Didn't noticed... Tot they became rare and was feeling sad... Now that they are not local... I dun feel so bad liao...  :Opps:

----------


## floatbloat

i guess as humans we have put ourselves in a very privileged position as the highest echelons of this world. this is both good and bad, but i believe it is what lies in between that matters, i.e ethics. why is this good and why is that bad? 

anyway, in our said position we can change things but change isn't something we would be comfortable with too. as idiosyncratic wannabe geniuses and self-righteous activists, contradiction is truly what makes the world go round. try asking a tree hugging hippie not to smoke a cigarette or a postmodern artist to not ask what time it is (stereotypes are stereotypes only because they exist). 

as humans we are doomed to delve in the glory of not God/s but contradiction. so what do we do? we underline the contradiction by logging on to the net and complain! you know, there is something very endearing about this. don't be ashamed because at least there is speech (sorta)/ action. did i mention that as humans we tend to be able to dig out all forms of justifications?

that said, i think the problem is just that we are too comfortable. but are we going to do something drastic about it? who wants to raise their hands? a revolution doesn't belong to just one person, it belongs to the world. which makes me think-

damn, i wish i was living in the 70s with today's money

----------


## XnSdVd

-Raises his "Save the snails" signboard- 

Who wants to start a revolution? Everyone, who wants it enough to do it? No one. Society is a sign of growth that retards growth. No? I believe it is... ever notice people who stand out too much are "crazy"?

----------


## budak

no, they are called arrogant, tyrannical and hypocritical.

----------


## stormhawk

I'm still wondering how a thread on inhumane treatment of pests just turned into human-bashing thread.  :Roll Eyes: 

Too much hippie-pie can turn people into weed-smoking maniacs.  :Laughing:  

Waves his *Save The Snails* signboard alongside XnS.  :Razz:

----------


## stormhawk

> Those big snails commonly found on the roadside (or mashed up on the road) are actually from Africa.


Budak, you got any idea on their actual species name? This bit of info is interesting. I only know they're just the common field snail or something like that. Was featured in a science guidebook I read when I was in primary school.  :Razz:

----------


## XnSdVd

Hey! they were in my book too! and there was a little section at the bottom that was like "Snail sambal!"  :Laughing:

----------


## budak

Pdf of a study here: http://www.hear.org/books/tgas1961/p...1chapter02.pdf

This guy at NUS studies them too, and anabantoids as well! http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/staff/ip.htm

----------


## stormhawk

> Hey! they were in my book too! and there was a little section at the bottom that was like "Snail sambal!"


That's the book!  :Grin:

----------


## XnSdVd

The mini science encyclopedia? haha, I loved that book!

----------


## Justikanz

As I was watching 'King Kong' last night, I suddenly recalled this thread. I am now even more into 'Human Bashing'... *Sigh*... While the story might be, well, just a story, such events are happening everywhere, captive cature of free-to-roam animals for $$ or for the desire to try to eat something different... Or the fear of something they dun understand and trying to kill it presuming that it will harm humans... Or the rejection and misunderstanding of a simple love or request for love and friendship from a creature that don't speak or understand our language... *Sigh*...

I cried non-stop for the last 30-45mins of the movie (Yes, I was THAT emotional + maybe I was really tired and stressed out for the past 2 weeks)... I was very upset after watching the movie...

Oh well, for those who love big creatures and CGIs, enjoy this otherwise, rather entertaining movie.  :Smile:

----------


## XnSdVd

Hey! I caught it yesterday too, "Man is the real monster" was what I walked outta there thinking. BTW you should get the book "The Natural History of Skull Island" I'm sure budak would agree  :Wink:

----------


## Justikanz

There is a real Skull Island??  :Huh?:  That was the FIRST time I watched 'King Kong', whichever the version, by the way...

----------


## XnSdVd

Haha, no it's a fictional ecological study. Everything is/should be bioglgically and ecologically correct. But it was thought up by a writer. For eg. The wall and gates were the ruins of a lost civilisation(sp?) The reason why it extends into the sea is because Skull island was sinking.(sank shortly before WWII according the the book) so... you know, let your imagination run, I'm getting myself the book for christmas  :Grin:  Anyone wanna mass order with me?

----------


## stormhawk

Dude, you cried?!  :Knockout:  Yes sad as it was I found it to be a moving show since the animators did a great job in showing the emotions of Kong. A big thumbs-up to the fellas who did the CGI for Kong.

----------


## Justikanz

It was like a tap turned on... So LONG never cry like dat... And there were also several people around me sniffing...  :Roll Eyes:

----------


## semota

"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I've realised that you are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But you humans do
not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every
natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus." Agent Smith, THE MATRIX

----------

