# Planted Tanks > Vivariums >  A river runs through it... A journal for a new project...

## Justikanz

I am starting a new project...  :Razz: 

At first wanted a pure land-only terrarium for a tree frog... But after reading up that tree frogs do appreciate some water and seeing Wild Ginger's froggie tank, I am inspired to add a stream to the tank... 

But the title is still 'A River Runs Through It' lah... River sounds better than a stream mah...  :Grin:  

Anyway, I came up with 5 designs for the 2ft tank...

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


Which would be better?

I am just worried that the flow would not be good for a long stream and the flow is obstructed by narrowed portions or turning points... Any comments?

Thanks...

----------


## Wild Ginger

#3



For me, i'd choose the above plan #3 due to the fact it's much more practical and the width of the "river" does not constrict any flow and aesthetically it'd be nice from high elevation to low elevation. 

Also, just to add, it has a nice arc from the rear right up to the front and it separates both land areas just nicely in terms of prorportions. Might want to add a fallen log across just in case mr Froggie wants to migrate from one land to another.

Regards,
Phillipe.

----------


## Justikanz

Fallen log... Hmm... Idea...  :Razz: 

I have such a log available... 

I am inclined to #3 or #5 because I want a significant land area, yet, if possible, keep a wild betta or paros or 5 _Boraras sp._...  :Grin:

----------


## Fei Miao

I presumed this is for a 2ft? #3 or 5 for me!, 4 doesn't have enough land mass. Going to house a white's tree frog?  :Smile:  or something else?  :Wink:

----------


## Justikanz

Yes, it is a 2ft tank and it is built with the White's Tree Frog in mind...  :Smile:

----------


## Fei Miao

Looking forward to it :Well done:  unfortunately I think ran out of permits for another tank :Razz:

----------


## bossteck

Hi Justikanz,

I like the 5th layout! 
My ministeress of home affairs say cannot keep frogs. So I am looking forward to seeing yours! 

Cheers!

----------


## richietay

look forward to it also.

----------


## Justikanz

I am going for #5.  :Smile: 

Just got the background up... Will upload the picture soon and now will be working on the stream bank. Many thanks to Wild Ginger.  :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Pictures!  :Smile: 

Sticking on the cork bark is a pain... And I totally forgotten that it takes a long time for silicone to cure...



Left overnight, the cork bark is finally up and so I can start working on the stream bank...



I ran out of silicone... And so, work has to stop until I manage to find tome to pass by some shop selling aquarium silicone... Then will seal all the gaps that I can see...

After that is done, water, clay pellets and potting soil will be filled in and the pump test run... Then I can arrange the wood pieces and buy plants from Teo's!  :Razz: 

Oh... I have several designs for the tank cover, courtesy of Wild Ginger. He's the man, man!  :Smile: 



I chose something similar to this design, minus the ventilation holes, as the hinge will create a strip of gap we totally forgotten until the glass maker reminds us all...



Then I will have to silicone wire mesh to the thin strip... But will confirm when I collect the glass pieces and silicone the hinges on them...

This is as much DIY as I can take... I am definitely NOT a DIY person... Haha...  :Laughing: 

So looking forward to see the tank up and running...  :Grin:

----------


## Justikanz

Oh... Totally forgotten... Got this stupid piece I had to remove because stupid me forgot to turn the tank around and use that as the back!!...  :Confused:   :Exasperated:  



I tried medicated oil and it doesn't work... The piece of paper is just like dead stuck there... How to remove it?? *Arrgh!*...  :Exasperated:

----------


## Fei Miao

Try lighter fuel fluid(brand I used: Ronson), soak it totally and it should come off easy :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Eh... Silly question... Where to find lighter fuel? NTUC?  :Opps:  Soak it as in apply generously on the paper and then wait? Gosh... My office will smell bad, man... Haha...  :Laughing:

----------


## Wackytpt

> Eh... Silly question... Where to find lighter fuel? NTUC?  Soak it as in apply generously on the paper and then wait? Gosh... My office will smell bad, man... Haha...


nutc should sell them. or you can try provision shop. ask for lighter fluid  :Smile:

----------


## Fei Miao

Wow- so this set-up is gonna to be in your office :Smile: 
NTUC might have them, some neighbourhood hardware, provision store and India "Mama" store might carry them also. I usually get them from Art store like ART-FRIEND from Bras Basah Complex. We use them to remove glue,dirts,stickers in the Ad/Design line.

Yes apply generously, once the sticky completely soak-in, the sticker will peel off easily. It evaporates quickly, so the smell is not that bad.

----------


## Fei Miao

..to add, I think I seen them in one of the provision store in NTU, the one besides the canteen near the sports facilities.  :Smile:

----------


## valice

Fei Miao, think there is only that ONE provision store in NTU...  :Laughing:  
Anyway, I really envy people working in NTU... You should see the size of the offices! OMG...

----------


## Cacatuoides

Very interesting project.....looking forward to viewing the process!!  :Grin:  
Something new to me...

----------


## richietay

Something new to me too, finally get to see such a project being setting up and same time can learn from bro Justikanz. 

Look forward!

----------


## kemp

keep us posted please!

----------


## bossteck

Hi Justikanz, 

Your project seemed to be coming along nicely, except the bit about the sticker  :Razz:  

Waiting for the next installment.  :Smile:

----------


## valice

For the water, is filtering required?

----------


## Wackytpt

There is a small filter at the bottom if you notice it.  :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

That is just a water pump... I don't intend to filter, but will place small pieces of wood around the inlet though... To sort of prevent too big pieces of debris (if any) to be sucked in. I am comtemplating of whether to add fish to the stream...  :Razz:  Should I?

----------


## Jungle-mania

You can also use WD40 or any multi-purpose lubricant to remove it too.

----------


## wks

> I am comtemplating of whether to add fish to the stream...  Should I?


If fish is part of the diet of your tree frog and you like to keep fish, then the answer is obviously no. :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

I doubt the Tree Frog eats from the water... Thinking of either khuli loaches or a betta (preferably not _B.splendens_)... or 5 _Boraras sp._... Hmm...

----------


## Quixotic

_Copella arnoldi_, very interesting and challenging if you can get it to spawn.  :Razz:

----------


## Justikanz

Cannot lah, Quixotic... The water portion very small leh... But should be enough for a few _Boraras sp._or the _Microrasbora_ 'galaxy', though, I think...  :Razz: 

Update: Collected my glass tank cover... BUT got problems with the dimensions! Uncle gave me extra when not needed at one place and took off more than he should another... MIGHT have to spend money to make again...  :Exasperated:

----------


## XnSdVd

Hmm.. thomas, have you thought of turning the tank 90 degrees? so that way you only see 30cm and have 60cm of depth to work with. Might give the illusion of a longer river and the frog will have a nice place to hide in

----------


## Justikanz

Nice idea... Maybe for new projects... The thing is, you need to cater to the viewing angle and have to either use a metal or custom make a cabinet... Cost more lor...

----------


## XnSdVd

No.. you just turn a regular cabinet sideways

----------


## Justikanz

Haha... Some things are not as easy as you think...  :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Update with pictures!  :Smile: 

After the silicone had been left to dry overnight, I started to fill the land area...  :Smile: 

First with clay pellets


Then with dried moss


Then finally with potting soil


Added the wood... Looks ok? Still have some pieces... Never did get to use the big piece that I want as it turned out to be too big...  :Sad: 


Then now to add water! Found out that the water still leaks into the pellets... But never mind lah... That's what the pellets are for...  :Razz: 


The pump sucked in some debris very soon... and the flow becomes very irregular, sometimes slow and sometimes very fast, spewing water all over and even hitting the glass cover!... I think I need to add a piece of wire mesh in front of the pump... and maybe some filter wool in-between...

Got to finalize this weekend! Going Teo's for shopping on Sunday morning! Heh heh...  :Grin:

----------


## Fei Miao

Looking good!, I might be picky but can do something on the front and probably on the sides regarding the clay pellets? I can see the clay pellets and soil layers showing through the glass.. :Opps:

----------


## valice

Hmm... Maybe more branchy DWs? Or bogwoods for the frog to climb? Since they are tree frogs (correct me if I am wrong) right?

----------


## richietay

With some greens added later on, will be very nice. Have you got the tree frogs?

----------


## Justikanz

Heh heh... Miao, I got your point... But I don't think I can do anything except to either paste something there or to place some thing infront, on the cupboard surface...

Valice, I am scared the branchy ones cannot take the weight of the frog and collapse!  :Razz:  Will still play around with the wood until I got the plants in and start planting.  :Smile: 

Will try _Cyperus helferi_, HC,emersed _Marsilea sp._, a variety of _Cryptocoryne wendtii_ varieties and maybe some stem plants...  :Smile: 

Richietay, I will get the frogs only after the plants had stabalized. Hopefully, the plants are ready in 1-2 weeks' time and I can get them at Eco Culture's White's Tree Forg talk...  :Smile:

----------


## valice

Shove the wood into the soil to prevent it from toppling? Guess you have a point since these frogs are not exactly small in size...

----------


## Justikanz

More pictures...

Planted a portion today with some plants from my home tanks...  :Razz: 


I use riccia... as emersed on the wood at the 'stream head'... Hope they will grow well and not overtake the tank...  :Razz: 


The left side has a bromeliad (spelling?), courtesy of Wild Ginger, _Marsilea sp._, Cryptocoryne walkeri and Japanese hairgrass. Will get some HC and plant at the foreground.  :Smile: 


The right side now I have some fern, _Cyperus helferi_ and a couple stems of _Polygonum sp._(possibly) with red flowers. Will be planting more crypts (C.wendtii 'tropica' or some China crypt from Teo's), HC and some more stem plants. 

Oh, I have a jewel orchid too! Courtesy of Wild Ginger... Nice?  :Razz: 


Any suggestions on the plants?

Think for the stream, I will either add 5 _Boraras sp._ or the _Microrasbora 'galaxy'_... How?  :Razz:

----------


## richietay

How you actually maintain the setup damp, using the so-called mist maker?

----------


## andrewtyr

I didn't know Marcelia sp. is terrestrial. You might want to add more ferns, and land moss, I think they look way cool.

----------


## Justikanz

The whole setup was damp as the water was spewing all over during the adjusting of the stream head...  :Opps: 

I will add more plants on Sunday, after a trip to Teo's farm... But sadly, I was involved in a car accident earlier today... Not sure if I will the mood to go shopping...  :Opps:

----------


## gummynut

car accident?? :Surprised:  thomas, hope that you are not injured.

----------


## Justikanz

Thanks. Not injured, just a bad shock and *Sigh*... Oh well...

Anyway, I still went to Teo's, because I promised Stanoyo.  :Razz:  And what a happy trip it was...  :Opps: 

The results from the shopping...



All plants planted. Now just need to 

1) wait for them to mature and grow in, 
2) find something to cover the pump's wire along the cork bark background (dried moss or real moss?  :Razz: ), and
3) collect my tank's glass cover (the cause of my car accident  :Embarassed:  )

and I can buy Mr Froggie...  :Razz: 

This is how the right side looks like, planted...  :Smile: 


And this is left side now...

----------


## bossteck

Hi Justikanz, 

Sorry to hear about your mishap. But nothing beats a little retail theraphy by shopping for plants. 

Your setup looks nice! You have made it look bigger than it really is.

----------


## Quixotic

Looking good. What species is the bromeliad? Any planting in the stream?

----------


## Justikanz

No idea what bromeliad it is... Got to ask Wild Ginger...  :Razz: 

I am trying glosso (contaminant) and HC (bought too much) in the stream... But no CO2 leh... Not sure if they will even grow...  :Razz:

----------


## Quixotic

Haha, never mind. Post the pictures after it grows and flowers. That'll probably be more fun identifying it.  :Razz:

----------


## wks

Planning any plants on the cork bark? It looks a bit bare. :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Yes... After all stabalised, will add moss or pelia when the cork bark becomes sufficiently wet enough 

Update:

I have some problems with the water pump... It was spewing lots and lots of bubbles this morning when I came into office and I had to switch it off... Any ideas if I should just switch it off totally?  :Opps:

----------


## valice

If it is spewing bubbles, means it is taking in air from the inlet...
Check that the inlet is not above the water level...

----------


## Wild Ginger

The bromeliad in Justikanz tank is called a Neorelegia Zebrina, correspondant to its zebra like markings on the leaves. It'll grow into a massive 3ft in height if given proper care and lighting. But that's of course over a period of several years.

Regards,
Phillipe.

----------


## Justikanz

No leh... Water level not changed. Think the pump sucked in some stuff... Seriously thinking of removing the pump...

----------


## Quixotic

Thanks Phillipe for the information. Sounds like an interesting species.

----------


## Wild Ginger

I think you should just take out the pump, do some cleaning up if there's any debris and place it back into position. Perhaps you could check on the filter wool that's wrapping around it. 

As yours is still a new tank in developement, i'm sure it'll take some fine tuning to be able to operate smoothly. 

Don't give up, patience and perseverance is the key to having a stable system.  :Blah:  


Regards,
Phillipe.

----------


## Justikanz

Well, mood not very the good these days due to the damage from the accident... Think I will let it rest for a couple of days before meddling it... The sound from the pump is a little too loud now also...

And the fern is dying... Hmm...

----------


## Fei Miao

Thomas, any updates on this set-up?

----------


## Justikanz

Updates ah?... The jewel orchird is not doing well...  :Opps: 

The crypts are melting... I wonder why... 


But they are also rooted... So I am less worried...


and the mosses are growing in... Some algae and moss are starting to cover the cork bark, which is good... And riccia is a wonderful plant when grow emersed... 


The Marselia sp. are growing very slowly... I think the HC will take over soon...


Other Pictures...



Are the holes caused by the crickets?  :Huh?: 

They find their way here...


Cheese!...

----------


## Fei Miao

wunderbar!... makes me want to see the actual set-up again :Grin:  
Give the crypts a chance since they are still rooted..

----------


## Justikanz

Just checked... One or two of the crypts seems to have fungus growing on them... They could have died...

And what are those little seed like pods on the base of the crypt in the first picture of post#59?... Now they are all over the area near that crypt, including the glass...  :Huh?:

----------


## ash

post the full set up again?.... after the plants settled down.

----------


## pioneer

nice setup.. waiting to see more pictures post.

----------


## Justikanz

I am deciding what fish to put in the stream area now... 

The plants, except the _Marselia sp._ and the _Cyperus helferi_, have more or less settled in now...

Pictures will follow towards the end of the week...  :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Update:



Oh, tank glass very wet, so pictures all look like being taken in the rain...  :Razz: 

Some white 'mites' are growing all over the wood now! So angry! I wonder if garlic spray will affect the frogs... I want to try using garlic spray on those mites!

The Polygonum sp. is doing very well emersed...

And I love its little pink-white flowers...

The emersed moss is spreading (Think we 'named' this kind of moss hwchoy moss earlier)


The left side:

HC and young Marselia sp. sometimes flat flat when I looked into the tank in the morning... The jewel orchid is growing well after I shifted it here, luckily...

Bought the fissidens-look-alike-moss!




The right side:

The crypts are recovering... *phew!*

No.1 and No.2 don't really appreciates... They rather stay on top...  :Razz:  But I just found out, when I am not around, they will trample all my HC and young Marselia sp. flat flat!...  :Exasperated:  


No.3 is almost always alone...


An over view:




Ya... Still not able to peel the stupid sticker off!  :Razz:

----------


## taygu

Hi, a penknife may just do the job to get rid of the sticker. Place it at a angle and slide it slower under the sticker, see if it works.

----------


## David Moses Heng

Justikanz,

Your set up is way cool... :Well done:  

Got an empty 2 ft similar to your...

Thinking of setting it up.

Want to help? :Grin:  

Cheers!!

----------


## grey_fox

:Well done:  :Well done:  :Well done: 

Very natural looking and really nice! Good job dude!! Makes me want to convert my 5 footer to a vivarium as well.  :Knockout:

----------


## Justikanz

Sadly, there were a few days when the aircon water pipe burst and there was no aircon... The place was like a sauna and the frogs were cooked...  :Sad: 

But the plants managed to pull through... And I've did a little re-arrangement of some plants, or rather Wild Ginger arranged them for me when he dropped by for a visit... And I'd added a couple of jewel orchids...

Will take pictures soon... Too busy nowadays...  :Opps: 

Altum Lover76, the fun part of it was thes etting up... So, why not start a journal like this thread and we all help you build it up?  :Smile: 

Grey Fox, 5ft? Wow... That will be an interesting project...  :Smile: 

P/S: The silly stickers are FINALLY removed!  :Razz:

----------


## David Moses Heng

Thanks for the advice, Justikanz...

Starting one right away.

 :Smile:

----------


## XnSdVd

?!? hmm... perhaps you should've taken off the lid or released the forgs. Better than letting them fry.

----------


## puffer07

Alternative you can use a penknife blade to scrap it off after you wet the sticker.

----------


## Justikanz

Frogs fried when we are not in office lah. By the time we return to office the aircon had broken down for 3 days liao and the place was really like a sauna... we were all sweating in office as we worked for the next 2 days... And the stickers were removed sometime back... using penknife.  :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Updates:

Due to being too busy earlier on, the stemmed plant, Polygonum overgrewed and took over the tank for months... Choking the plants...

So, 1 fine day, over a weekend, I returned to office and pulled out all the Polygonum and added some slower plants...

Here is how it looks like now:








And I think my jewel orchids are budding...  :Razz:  Hope they flower successfully...  :Smile:

----------


## Justikanz

Oops... Just realised the bflower buds cannot be seen in the pic...  :Razz:  Sorry...

Oh, I have a slight problem with this tank... There are BGA at the water area... *Sigh*... Don't know how to get rid of it for good...

----------


## solonavi

Great Journal.  :Smile:  Been a gd read for me since I've been tasked to setup a small vivarium in my office.

Btw, dun mind me asking a silly question as I've been out of touch with freshwater for a while. Which is the shop that I can get most of the stuff needed for vivarium like the pellet, wood bark, etc?

Cheers
JC

----------


## ranmasatome

Go to thompson road area.. first can pop by NA and colourful.. then if not enough can do a short 5min drive over to far east flora.

----------


## solonavi

Far East Flora? U mean to get the plants?

JC

----------


## ranmasatome

What was your question?? i simply answered it.. :Grin:

----------

