# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Invertebrates >  Signature of Each PRL Lineage

## Noobz

Understand that there are alot of bros here keeping PRL. May of us like myself is very new in this shrimp keeping hobby and also would like to understand more on PRL on their heritage and also the signature of this lineage line. Currently the *most famous breeders* known internationally are:
NSK – Nishikiebi (Japan)HKT – Hakata (Japan)MFF – MunEchika Fish Farm (Japan)Benibachi (Japan)Crimson (Japan)ASSA – (Shrimp Breeder Association Asia)Ebi999 (Taiwan)Yuken (Taiwan)Sorry if i miss out any more lineage and do share if you know more. Would like to know what is the signature of each lineage PRL as it's difficult to get more information on this on google as information is mostly japanese for JPRL. Appreciate if any bro can contribute more information on each PRL lineage signature (e.g color) as i know some bro here are keeping some PRL. Do share which lineage you are keeping and any special reason of keeping this lineage as knowledge sharing for all the bros. Thanks in advance.

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## Navanod

Yuken's line initially came from MFF, so I would consider him a 2nd gen lineage. If you're going to include him, there're many many more lines to consider.
Some of the Jap lines do have certain features that they're better known for, but how consistent these traits are found by the time they reach the hands of hobbyists is anyone's guess.

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## Noobz

> Yuken's line initially came from MFF, so I would consider him a 2nd gen lineage. If you're going to include him, there're many many more lines to consider.
> Some of the Jap lines do have certain features that they're better known for, but how consistent these traits are found by the time they reach the hands of hobbyists is anyone's guess.


So Bro are you able to share which are the features for which lineage is better for as I cannot seems to find from the net?

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## Quinn

I'm very curious to learn about Prl too.  :Smile:

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## deone

I think prior to this topic, what alot of new shrimp hobbyist would like to learn is where and how can we purchase such shrimps. If this is against forum rules then just ignore this.
But i'm sure this will help expand the shrimp hobby alot. I know alot of seniors here had gone through alot to find such shrimps, but sharing is caring?

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## Noobz

No bro sharing any information or advice?

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## Zenith82

Most PRLs are all imported from Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand and China.
Currently on market, you can get benibachi and ebiten from green chapter (but currently no stock), CRS Haven used to carry Crimson but don't think they bringing anymore in again, can check with them. The rest of the lineage have to get from local breeders whom got them overseas and breed locally. Watch out the buy/sell thread for PRL sales.

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## Ecalyte

> No bro sharing any information or advice?


CRS are not like cars, where you can distinctly differentiate between the brands due to the obvious difference in shape and size. They're life-stock. Ultimately, their shape and form will always be the same no matter who's the breeder. You take any 4 of your top lineages.. and tell the breeder to present their single best piece, and trust me.. you won't find any distinguishing characteristics. Their reds will be brilliant, their white flawless with no yellowing.. and their legs will be red as fire. So, ultimately the lineage doesn't really matter too much. Unless of course the practices of a certain camp are fraudulent, in which case their shrimps will not look nice at all.

When buying PRL, use your own eyes to see the quality. Objectify the piece with a value that you feel its worth, then pay the money. Probably the only differentiating factors will be price. Maybe a $200 benibachi looks far more inferior compared to a $200 nishiki? (Not factual, just a random example). 

The patterns on the body are completely random. There is no way of controlling exactly how the patterns will come out; 0.04cm hino with a 30deg crescent moon little lips for example.. There is no way you can actually get to the exact pattern so there is really no way of differentiating.

If I took the best shrimp from 5 of the listed lineages, put them in a tank and asked anyone here to guess which belonged to what.. I guarantee you no one will guess it all. In fact I can even cheat and put in some really nice normal CRS, and they will start guessing the lineages without knowing that none of the answers are right...

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## Navanod

Not only are they not branded cars, they are not even cars to begin with. Cars do not evolve in the hands of individual owners.
But the shrimps will evolve and the only signatures of the PRLs out there now is:

Grading is non-existent. Shrimps of F1 and later generations are being sold as if they are parental stocks from the original Breeders.

I agree with Ecalyte bro. Objectify them and grade them based on individual qualities, not brand. A nice CRS that was carefully selected will beat many PRLs on sale that actually came from culls or poor 2nd hand breeders.

With that being said, I'm starting to see a new trend (ok, maybe not so new) where Jap lines are mixed and the breeder then claimed to have created a new line. Some may say these are hybrids, short-cut or instant lines, since these breeders did not do the years of hard work. But at least they do QC and are accountable for these lines.

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## Noobz

> CRS are not like cars, where you can distinctly differentiate between the brands due to the obvious difference in shape and size. They're life-stock. Ultimately, their shape and form will always be the same no matter who's the breeder. You take any 4 of your top lineages.. and tell the breeder to present their single best piece, and trust me.. you won't find any distinguishing characteristics. Their reds will be brilliant, their white flawless with no yellowing.. and their legs will be red as fire. So, ultimately the lineage doesn't really matter too much. Unless of course the practices of a certain camp are fraudulent, in which case their shrimps will not look nice at all.
> 
> When buying PRL, use your own eyes to see the quality. Objectify the piece with a value that you feel its worth, then pay the money. Probably the only differentiating factors will be price. Maybe a $200 benibachi looks far more inferior compared to a $200 nishiki? (Not factual, just a random example). 
> 
> The patterns on the body are completely random. There is no way of controlling exactly how the patterns will come out; 0.04cm hino with a 30deg crescent moon little lips for example.. There is no way you can actually get to the exact pattern so there is really no way of differentiating.
> 
> If I took the best shrimp from 5 of the listed lineages, put them in a tank and asked anyone here to guess which belonged to what.. I guarantee you no one will guess it all. In fact I can even cheat and put in some really nice normal CRS, and they will start guessing the lineages without knowing that none of the answers are right...


Just curious thought reading somewhere in the forum that Crimson PRL have thicker shell? Would also like to know why is some linegae selling more ex than the other if afterall their appearance looks the same? Sorry for asking so many question as i'm very curious about PRL and wants to know more about PRL.

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## Ecalyte

> Just curious thought reading somewhere in the forum that Crimson PRL have thicker shell? Would also like to know why is some linegae selling more ex than the other if afterall their appearance looks the same? Sorry for asking so many question as i'm very qurious about PRL and wants to know more about PRL.


It's all about the branding I suppose.. It's just how some branded jeans are more expensive than Giordano or Topman even though they're manufactured in the same sweat shop... It also has to do with reputation, which again boils down to the branding.

And.. your deduction that some lineage are being sold more expensive than others is based on the trends of AQ / AF Marketplace right? Then that's not really a fair representation. After all, the quality difference based on pricing is there for everyone to see when the sellers are posting their pictures. And anyway, 99% of the PRL that are available to us are either from people who imports them from TW to sell, or culls of local breeders. We are not really exposed to the actual true-blue PRL pedigree because we, as consumers, are not willing to shell out $200 for a single shrimp. So then it comes down to what profit margin the sellers are comfortable with, nothing to do with the lineages..

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## Ecalyte

Also it's good to note that there are 2 different markets when dealing with this industry. Shops and home breeders. So if you're comparing say for example a $200 PRL from a shop, and a $200 PRL from a home breeder.. you can bet your bottom dollar that the home breeder's quality will be far superior. People who import to sell will also be placed under the category of home breeder not by definition, but by economic category. Shops have a very high over-head, so their profit margin from their products (be it life stock or equipment) have to cover the operating costs and still have left-over for profits. So can you imagine... they probably got their shrimps at home breeder pricing (maybe slightly lower) and then have to mark up so much to cover cost and earn a decent profit. Zero chance of competition.. 

So you can't just say "Wow, Benibachi is so much more expensive than Hakata and Ebiten man!" .. you have to look at the bigger economic picture. It's not as straight forward as one would imagine

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## newlife

Good explaination....

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## Noobz

> It's all about the branding I suppose.. It's just how some branded jeans are more expensive than Giordano or Topman even though they're manufactured in the same sweat shop... It also has to do with reputation, which again boils down to the branding.
> 
> And.. your deduction that some lineage are being sold more expensive than others is based on the trends of AQ / AF Marketplace right? Then that's not really a fair representation. After all, the quality difference based on pricing is there for everyone to see when the sellers are posting their pictures. And anyway, 99% of the PRL that are available to us are either from people who imports them from TW to sell, or culls of local breeders. We are not really exposed to the actual true-blue PRL pedigree because we, as consumers, are not willing to shell out $200 for a single shrimp. So then it comes down to what profit margin the sellers are comfortable with, nothing to do with the lineages..


Thanks Bro for all the sharing of views and information. . I totally agree with you that branding maybe a factor of the price of the PRL but but definite there must be some reason why some lineage are more popular than the other in terms of other reason. Hopefully more bro keeping PRL can share if there are any factor that makes them keep that lineage of PRL. Would love to hear more.

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## Navanod

Generally, Ecalyte is right in his comparison between the shop and home breeders/importers.

However, note that for some shops, we actually get to pick and choose before we pay. The shrimps are also more stable if we wait a few days after they arrive before buying.
Home breeders will usually release culls and importer's shrimps have a somewhat higher mortality rate, so the savings in cost may actually be lost when shrimps dies. There's usually no picking and choosing and not all shrimps will be of equal quality.

In the long run, buying from reputable shops may actually get us similar quality and same number of shrimps, taking into account deaths and the not-so-nice shrimps.
Both sources will have their pros and cons, but the cost to actual value may not be as far as it appears initially.

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## Ecalyte

> Generally, Ecalyte is right in his comparison between the shop and home breeders/importers.
> 
> However, note that for some shops, we actually get to pick and choose before we pay. The shrimps are also more stable if we wait a few days after they arrive before buying.
> Home breeders will usually release culls and importer's shrimps have a somewhat higher mortality rate, so the savings in cost may actually be lost when shrimps dies. There's usually no picking and choosing and not all shrimps will be of equal quality.
> 
> In the long run, buying from reputable shops may actually get us similar quality and same number of shrimps, taking into account deaths and the not-so-nice shrimps.
> Both sources will have their pros and cons, but the cost to actual value may not be as far as it appears initially.


Totally agree, but that's only applicable here in Singapore because of our local practices. Buyers are rarely allowed to pick. Also, pictures are usually modestly unclear and doesn't show the real quality. If you take a look at Taiwan and Japanese market places, they take real close up macro pictures of the shrimps they are selling, so buyers know exactly what they're getting. Also, in my recent trip to TW.. there wasn't a single breeder that didn't allow me to pick the shrimps I wanted to buy. This however, led to the death of shrimps in their LFS. You figure that in a market place so vibrant with buyers and sellers, you'll see some amazing quality at the LFS, but that's not the case.

I didn't see a single shop that sold CRS higher than our A grades, and even so.. they were poorly coloured. Fire reds were also very very under-represented. Basically, the LFS-es didn't care about the shrimp industry, because the home breeders have taken over 99% of the market. But boy do they love their guppies  :Shocked:  Guppies were on display for like SGD$100 a piece, and people were crowding around to buy..

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## Zenith82

Thanks for sharing Ecalyte, well elaborated. Im surprise thar you mention TW LFS sold low grade shrimps. Guess hong kong will be much better.

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## Noobz

> Totally agree, but that's only applicable here in Singapore because of our local practices. Buyers are rarely allowed to pick. Also, pictures are usually modestly unclear and doesn't show the real quality. If you take a look at Taiwan and Japanese market places, they take real close up macro pictures of the shrimps they are selling, so buyers know exactly what they're getting. Also, in my recent trip to TW.. there wasn't a single breeder that didn't allow me to pick the shrimps I wanted to buy. This however, led to the death of shrimps in their LFS. You figure that in a market place so vibrant with buyers and sellers, you'll see some amazing quality at the LFS, but that's not the case.
> 
> I didn't see a single shop that sold CRS higher than our A grades, and even so.. they were poorly coloured. Fire reds were also very very under-represented. Basically, the LFS-es didn't care about the shrimp industry, because the home breeders have taken over 99% of the market. But boy do they love their guppies  Guppies were on display for like SGD$100 a piece, and people were crowding around to buy..


Wow that's enlightening. Thought of visiting the LFS at Taiwan when I go for my trip. Believe there are still are still some good LFS at Taiwan bah. Like Yuken shrimps.

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## avex30

Bro Ecalyte er.... could that be the reason why the shop in the east forbid customer to scoop their PRICY shrimps? Cause they care about their shrimps?? Hmm but than again if they do care they will not be selling the so call eco bottle wahahahahah

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## ZackZhou

> Bro Ecalyte er.... could that be the reason why the shop in the east forbid customer to scoop their PRICY shrimps? Cause they care about their shrimps?? Hmm but than again if they do care they will not be selling the so call eco bottle wahahahahah


Hahahaha... Maybe that's why you will never see them here in AQ?

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## Ecalyte

> Thanks for sharing Ecalyte, well elaborated. Im surprise thar you mention TW LFS sold low grade shrimps. Guess hong kong will be much better.


Actually.. I went to about 15-16 LFSs in Taipei, so.. it's not representative of the entire Taiwan as Taiwan is super big haha..




> Wow that's enlightening. Thought of visiting the LFS at Taiwan when I go for my trip. Believe there are still are still some good LFS at Taiwan bah. Like Yuken shrimps.


Just so you know.. Yuken doesn't have an LFS. In fact, he doesn't allow people to go into his 'LFS'.. only foreigners I suppose, because then he can quote crazy prices. I was quoted 180k NTD for a pair of flowerheads. For those too lazy to go to xe.com to convert, it's SGD$7.7k

I personally feel you shouldn't waste time going to the LFS, and spend some time before going there to look up the breeders. 




> Bro Ecalyte er.... could that be the reason why the shop in the east forbid customer to scoop their PRICY shrimps? Cause they care about their shrimps?? Hmm but than again if they do care they will not be selling the so call eco bottle wahahahahah


Haha.. no comments..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

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## gryphon

> CRS are not like cars, where you can distinctly differentiate between the brands due to the obvious difference in shape and size. They're life-stock. Ultimately, their shape and form will always be the same no matter who's the breeder. You take any 4 of your top lineages.. and tell the breeder to present their single best piece, and trust me.. you won't find any distinguishing characteristics. Their reds will be brilliant, their white flawless with no yellowing.. and their legs will be red as fire. So, ultimately the lineage doesn't really matter too much. Unless of course the practices of a certain camp are fraudulent, in which case their shrimps will not look nice at all.
> 
> When buying PRL, use your own eyes to see the quality. Objectify the piece with a value that you feel its worth, then pay the money. Probably the only differentiating factors will be price. Maybe a $200 benibachi looks far more inferior compared to a $200 nishiki? (Not factual, just a random example). 
> 
> The patterns on the body are completely random. There is no way of controlling exactly how the patterns will come out; 0.04cm hino with a 30deg crescent moon little lips for example.. There is no way you can actually get to the exact pattern so there is really no way of differentiating.
> 
> If I took the best shrimp from 5 of the listed lineages, put them in a tank and asked anyone here to guess which belonged to what.. I guarantee you no one will guess it all. In fact I can even cheat and put in some really nice normal CRS, and they will start guessing the lineages without knowing that none of the answers are right...


Fully agree... Anyone wants to try guessing the following?
And how much are you willing to pay or how much do you think they are worth?
#1


#2


#3

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## Zenith82

Hi Gryphon bro, no offence are the shrimps PRL? They don't look high grade. Coloration I give 7/10, white thickness ok, red color not very thick, legs color little reddish/transparent. SS grade, #1,#3 small maro on head, #1&2 single hino, #3 double hino. In my opinion I'm willing to pay range $20-$30.

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## Ecalyte

Good macro lens = lousier looking shrimps.. haha! With your own eyes, the shrimps look much better.. I've seen them in person myself

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## Zenith82

Haha bro ecalyte, you have a point. Macro lens too good, show all the flaws. 

Bro Gryphon, can share what lineage are they from? No offence from my comments,  :Razz:

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## gryphon

> Haha bro ecalyte, you have a point. Macro lens too good, show all the flaws. 
> 
> Bro Gryphon, can share what lineage are they from? No offence from my comments,


Yes, this macro lens really show you what you cannot see with your naked eyes!  :Laughing: 

They are just CRS, selectively bred ones.
Some PRLs that are sold at $20 and above don't even look nicer than these.

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## gryphon

For me it dosen't matter if they are PRLs or not, cos I don't care if my shrimps have got golden or snow white offsprings. Main concern is they must be nice; nice red and thick whites that does not see much transparent cracks. I rather buy nice CRS compared to cheap PRLs which does not look nice.

I am not saying that all PRLs LFS or breeder sell are not nice, its just that nice PRLs usually cost alot more. Moreover to own those superb mouth-drooling grades of PRLs that you see in overseas forums and the few handful locals breeders here have, I will need to pay 3 and even 4 digits amount. Something I am convince myself to part with such amount nor the fact that my CFO will kill me  :Laughing:

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## Navanod

> Yes, this macro lens really show you what you cannot see with your naked eyes! 
> 
> They are just CRS, selectively bred ones.
> Some PRLs that are sold at $20 and above don't even look nicer than these.


Good job! And I entirely agree that some of the cheap PRLs don't look half as good.
I particularly liked the 3rd shrimp.

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## Navanod

Apologies, I found a bug (of sorts) that's causing me to close this thread by mistake. It's reopened now

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## Noobz

Thanks mod. Was trying earlier on to post by notice thread closed.

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## Noobz

> Good explaination....


Bro can share your view as I know that you are keeping few PRL lineage. Thanks.

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## newlife

I myself agrees with what bro gyphon and bro Nav replies....
Lineage is just like a Branding....
As long as the shrimp look nice....whether is a Prl or not...

I have a tank which I mixed with HaKaTa and Benibachi....err...those which are average looking kind. I was amazed by some of the offspring. 

I do not have those super high grade kind...just some average looking ones. Unless you are willingly to pay for high price tag shrimp to start off.What I did was just culling...culling & culling....
Wahahaha...gotta do it in a hard way.

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## Noobz

Thanks for the input Bro newlife

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## zibbie

Couldn't sleep tonight and came to read this discussion on PRL.
super intriguing discussion and inputs, thanks everyone!

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## recca

just have a noob question that i cannot seem to figure out. How are we able to purchase shrimps overseas and bring back to our home country?? Is there some kind of procedure we need to abide to? I would like to see some of the overseas LFS you bros mentioned in the above threads. Just do not have the opportunity to see for myself, because i won't know where to go to. hehe~.

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## Navanod

You can bring back shrimps, as checked in luggage, up to 30 pieces in no more than 3L of water, per person.

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