# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  Low Tech tank - Need Help

## mercur1al

Hi guys, started off my very first planted tank about 2-3 weeks ago. Picked up this hobby about 2 months back, started with a 1 foot tank with just gravel as substrate. 

Due to space constraint but yet the itch to upgrade, picked up a 1.5 foot tank later on with sand as the substrate. Had it for 2 weeks before the itch to go for a planted tank took over. Thanks for the help thus far AQ, special mention to Urban Aquaria. His blog was my inspiration and he has been an immense help!

I planted Monte Carlo as the foreground plant, with an unknown plant as background and some rotala as midground transition. Apart from the Rotala, the rest are not growing well, and i intend to tear it up. Here are my tank specs:

45cm L - 29cm W - 30cm H
Soil is ADA Amazonia
Beamswork Hi Lumens 50 - Turned on manually for roughly 8-10 hours a day.
No CO2.
Daily dosing of Seachem Flourish Excel, and just started on Seachem flourish for the ferts. Intend to dose twice a week.

What are the recommended plants i could take on, given it is a low tech? Co2 is out of the question now. Not for this tank anyway. Might move to it when i get a proper sized tank with a cabinet.

I intend to:
- tear out the monte carlo and replace them with Glosso. 
- Remove the plant in Pic 2, the leaves are rotting.
- Relocate the Rotala to a more compact section. Think they look better together. The stems are a little weak now, i was told that is due to lack of iron. Hopefully the ferts will toughen them up.
- Was thinking of picking up some nanjenshan rotala. Any advice?

Basically just want to look out for ideal plants for a low tech. Thanks bros!
Attachment 44888Attachment 44889Attachment 44890

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## kurty

> Hi guys, started off my very first planted tank about 2-3 weeks ago. Picked up this hobby about 2 months back, started with a 1 foot tank with just gravel as substrate. 
> 
> Due to space constraint but yet the itch to upgrade, picked up a 1.5 foot tank later on with sand as the substrate. Had it for 2 weeks before the itch to go for a planted tank took over. Thanks for the help thus far AQ, special mention to Urban Aquaria. His blog was my inspiration and he has been an immense help!
> 
> I planted Monte Carlo as the foreground plant, with an unknown plant as background and some rotala as midground transition. Apart from the Rotala, the rest are not growing well, and i intend to tear it up. Here are my tank specs:
> 
> 45cm L - 29cm W - 30cm H
> Soil is ADA Amazonia
> Beamswork Hi Lumens 50 - Turned on manually for roughly 8-10 hours a day.
> ...


Welcome to the dark side.

this hobby is poisonous..

I regretted getting my first tank as a birthday gift  :Sad: 


based on your pictures, they are looking good and well. i could share some of the plants since i have a low tech tank too.
- monte carlo, i feel they demand good co2 and don't seem to react well to excel.
- glosso, thanks to UA, i saw some members succeeding with it on a low tech. a strong good light is required to let them crawl vertically.
- yeah, i also don't have much luck in such plants. Red and purple plants require high light and high amounts of CO2 and iron to thrive.
- so it was rotala, very lovely. i probably will get them too.

so far, 4 months of this hobby.

my successful plants are:

Water Wisteria
Moss
Anubias Nana
Hornwort

Excel lifespan is around 12hours, hence it would be good if you dose in the morning. 

i have the above plants like water wisteria, flame moss and hornwort, you can pm me if you want them.

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## Urban Aquaria

Quite alot of nice plants can grow quite well in low-tech setups... can try these ones (most are the faster growing stem plants):

- Rotala Wallichii (by far the fastest plant i've grown in low-tech tanks, has reddish tint at top most leaves)
- Rotala Nanjenshan (quite a fast grower too)
- Rotala Roundifolia (fast grower)
- Hemianthus Micranthemoides (aka HM, fast and very easy grower)
- Hygrophila Difformis (aka water wisteria, very fast grower) 
- Bacopa Monnieri or Bacopa Caroliniana (medium grower, very sturdy stems and leaves)
- Ludwigia Palustris or Repens (medium grower, has reddish tints on leaves under good lights) 
- Staurogyne Repens (medium grower, can be propagated to create a carpet)

... and most of the usual anubias, cryptocoryne, java fern, mosses etc.

This is just a very brief list of common plants that can be easily found at most LFS... there are many other plants that can grow in low-tech setups too, just have to check around.

Do note that for stem plants, they need to be trimmed regularly and as the bottom older parts start deteriorating (usually every 2-3 months, in high growth tanks can be every 1-2 months), you need to uproot them, cut the healthy tops, throw away the rotting bottoms, and replant the healthy tops. Its a regular activity to maintain such plants.

Btw, do get a socket timer for your lights, it'll automate the on/off timings for the lights (much easier for you) and maintain a consistent light schedule for the plants.  :Smile:

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## jiajuen900

Sounds like a nice start. I think the most important improvement that can be made right now is to set the lights on a automated timer. It provides much more stability for plant growth. Saves you a lot of effort in the long run as well.

Imagine if you were woken up every day at random different times of the day. Some sense of schedule is important for the plants to mimic their natural surrounds as far as possible. Just like how the sun rises and sets at generally fixed times of the day, the tank lights should also be turned and off at roughly fixed times daily.

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## jiajuen900

Other plants that could potentially do well in such a set up (I have planted them in similar set ups)

Echinodorus Tenullus 
A great carpeting plant that has a nice reddish hue in high light

Sagattaria Subtula
Roots really well and is very hardy. Can sometimes sprout flowers at water surface.

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## mercur1al

> Welcome to the dark side.
> 
> this hobby is poisonous..
> 
> I regretted getting my first tank as a birthday gift 
> 
> 
> based on your pictures, they are looking good and well. i could share some of the plants since i have a low tech tank too.
> - monte carlo, i feel they demand good co2 and don't seem to react well to excel.
> ...



I know that feeling. Been looking around for a decent tank plus cabinet, found a couple but hesitant to commit as still staying with parents atm. Don't expect it to last for too long so pretty hesitant to go to a nice tank with cabinet, only to relocate them later on...

Thanks for offering bro! Will definitely take up your offer if i go for those plants.

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## mercur1al

> Quite alot of nice plants can grow quite well in low-tech setups... can try these ones (most are the faster growing stem plants):
> 
> - Rotala Wallichii (by far the fastest plant i've grown in low-tech tanks, has reddish tint at top most leaves)
> - Rotala Nanjenshan (quite a fast grower too)
> - Rotala Roundifolia (fast grower)
> - Hemianthus Micranthemoides (aka HM, fast and very easy grower)
> - Hygrophila Difformis (aka water wisteria, very fast grower) 
> - Bacopa Monnieri or Bacopa Caroliniana (medium grower, very sturdy stems and leaves)
> - Ludwigia Palustris or Repens (medium grower, has reddish tints on leaves under good lights) 
> ...


Thank u Boss!

Read your comments about HM, find them rather similar to Monte Carlo and and HC.

What would you recommend for a fast growing carpet? Was thinking of Glosso, but I'm fine as long as they carpet fast.

Back when I tried to plant Monte Carlo, the plants were really tiny and hard to separate. The roots would intertwine and are so fine they are prone to breaking when I try to separate them. I tried both, those grown in a pot and those grown on a piece of cotton wool.

Any tips? I might go for more rotalas, given the ease of them growing. Pulled out one of my Rotala earlier, its growing daily but surprisingly no roots. Is that normal?

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## mercur1al

> Sounds like a nice start. I think the most important improvement that can be made right now is to set the lights on a automated timer. It provides much more stability for plant growth. Saves you a lot of effort in the long run as well.
> 
> Imagine if you were woken up every day at random different times of the day. Some sense of schedule is important for the plants to mimic their natural surrounds as far as possible. Just like how the sun rises and sets at generally fixed times of the day, the tank lights should also be turned and off at roughly fixed times daily.


Will be looking into that shortly. Saw some of the manual timers, they sure look confusing lol. Do they need to be programmed daily, or do i just set it once and it will remain on that schedule until i change it again?

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## mercur1al

> Other plants that could potentially do well in such a set up (I have planted them in similar set ups)
> 
> Echinodorus Tenullus 
> A great carpeting plant that has a nice reddish hue in high light
> 
> Sagattaria Subtula
> Roots really well and is very hardy. Can sometimes sprout flowers at water surface.


Wow Echinodorus Tenullus looks good indeed. Could be an alternative for my carpet... how deep are the roots? 

I read some threads whereby the Yamatos pull out the carpeting plants like HC. I have 3 big yamatos, now being housed in another tank but eventually i want to return them to this tank, so how deep they are rooted is a concern too.

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## jiajuen900

> Will be looking into that shortly. Saw some of the manual timers, they sure look confusing lol. Do they need to be programmed daily, or do i just set it once and it will remain on that schedule until i change it again?


They actually are quite simple. You just set the timing once and it will turn on and off the same time everyday without the need to reset.

it will remain on schedule until you need to change it again  :Wink:

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## mercur1al

One more thing, i get most of my plants from Seaview and Y618 currently. They are seldom labelled, only the common ones like glosso, HC, moss etc.

HC, monte etc usually come pack in those flat transparent boxes, whereby their roots are intertwined a fair bit and makes planting hard for a novice like me. 

Is there some where else you guys get your plants from, who has a better knowledge of them?

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## mercur1al

> They actually are quite simple. You just set the timing once and it will turn on and off the same time everyday without the need to reset.
> 
> it will remain on schedule until you need to change it again


http://list.qoo10.sg/item/24HOURS-AN...IMER/419703162

Looks to be a decent price too, only thing is probably need to reset every 7 days.

PS: Dear Mod, if its wrong for me to post the link, just remove it. Sorry if it infringes the forum rules.

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## jiajuen900

> http://list.qoo10.sg/item/24HOURS-AN...IMER/419703162
> 
> Looks to be a decent price too, only thing is probably need to reset every 7 days.
> 
> PS: Dear Mod, if its wrong for me to post the link, just remove it. Sorry if it infringes the forum rules.


i don't think it's reset every 7 days but rather you can program it to turn on at a particular time during a seven day period. After 7 days, you don't have to manually reset it. It will automatically repeat the 7 days schedule previously programmed.

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## jiajuen900

> One more thing, i get most of my plants from Seaview and Y618 currently. They are seldom labelled, only the common ones like glosso, HC, moss etc.
> 
> HC, monte etc usually come pack in those flat transparent boxes, whereby their roots are intertwined a fair bit and makes planting hard for a novice like me. 
> 
> Is there some where else you guys get your plants from, who has a better knowledge of them?


if you are looking for LFS that label their plants or might have more knowledge on scientific names of plants, can try Aquatic Avenue, Fishy Business or Green Chapter. But they are a little far for you since you seem to be staying in the North

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## Urban Aquaria

> Read your comments about HM, find them rather similar to Monte Carlo and and HC.
> 
> What would you recommend for a fast growing carpet? Was thinking of Glosso, but I'm fine as long as they carpet fast.
> 
> Back when I tried to plant Monte Carlo, the plants were really tiny and hard to separate. The roots would intertwine and are so fine they are prone to breaking when I try to separate them. I tried both, those grown in a pot and those grown on a piece of cotton wool.
> 
> Any tips?


Yeah, HM does resemble MC and HC in some ways, especially when sold in emersed form at most LFS (alot of people get confused between them)... but once in submersed form, HM takes on the characteristics of a fast growing vertical stem plant with narrow light green leaves, very easy to grow and can be pruned into dense hedges.

Glosso is a good choice for low-tech tanks, though just like MC and HC, its growth speed will still naturally be slower than in high-tech tanks with Co2 injection, so have to be patient.

For plants like MC, if you want to create even coverage and maximize growth, then no choice have to go through the painstaking effort of carefully separating the individual plantlets to plant (most people give up and just plant them in large bunches instead)... if you find that MC is tough to separate and plant, HC is even more difficult as its so much smaller.  :Grin: 





> I might go for more rotalas, given the ease of them growing. Pulled out one of my Rotala earlier, its growing daily but surprisingly no roots. Is that normal?


I also noticed that rotalas don't grow much roots too, even after a few months of growth, they usually still have very fine shallow roots, seems its mainly just to help anchor the plant to the substrate. I guess when in submersed form, they are adapted to absorb most of their nutrient requirements from the water column.





> Wow Echinodorus Tenullus looks good indeed. Could be an alternative for my carpet... how deep are the roots? 
> 
> I read some threads whereby the Yamatos pull out the carpeting plants like HC. I have 3 big yamatos, now being housed in another tank but eventually i want to return them to this tank, so how deep they are rooted is a concern too.


Echinodorus Tenellus do have relatively extensive root systems and they shoot runners above the soil too, so you'll see them crisscross the substrate. They are relatively fast growers too, though i guess they are more suitable as carpet plants in larger tanks (ie >3ft tanks or larger) or as mid-ground plants in smaller tanks as they tend to grow up to around 8-10cm tall, so not exactly compact and short like HC, MC or glosso.

Yamato/amano shrimps are much larger than RCS and CRS shrimps so they have more strength to pull up small carpet plants while foraging, it'll definitely be better to fully establish a dense carpet before introducing these shrimps in the tank or else they will most certainly ruin all your hard work in planting. Alternatively, just stick to RCS and CRS as algae cleaners, they have less plant pulling capability.  :Very Happy:

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## mercur1al

> if you are looking for LFS that label their plants or might have more knowledge on scientific names of plants, can try Aquatic Avenue, Fishy Business or Green Chapter. But they are a little far for you since you seem to be staying in the North


No worries bro, have a bunch of friends who are now stuck deep into this hobby as well. Will ask them along. Fishy business looks a bit atas though... scared to step in since im a budget hobbyist lol

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## mercur1al

> Yeah, HM does resemble MC and HC in some ways, especially when sold in emersed form at most LFS (alot of people get confused between them)... but once in submersed form, HM takes on the characteristics of a fast growing vertical stem plant with narrow light green leaves, very easy to grow and can be pruned into dense hedges.
> 
> Glosso is a good choice for low-tech tanks, though just like MC and HC, its growth speed will still naturally be slower than in high-tech tanks with Co2 injection, so have to be patient.
> 
> For plants like MC, if you want to create even coverage and maximize growth, then no choice have to go through the painstaking effort of carefully separating the individual plantlets to plant (most people give up and just plant them in large bunches instead)... if you find that MC is tough to separate and plant, HC is even more difficult as its so much smaller. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Echinodorus Tenellus carpets sideways? That sounds appealing to me. Fast growers are appealing as well, i guess i might go for that. Any idea if Seaview or Y618 has it? Just to check, for these carpeting grass, i saw a youtube video about trimming these carpet grass. They just stick the scissors in and trim off and allowing those cut off to float to the surface? Sounds messy though. Is that the right way?

Im holding off on CRS and RCS as i have a couple of rams. Dont want them to end up being food lol.

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## jiajuen900

Echinodorus Tenellus shoots out runners on the side from the main plant do it will carpet sideways. As UA mentioned, it has a very extensive root system. However, they usually do not root very deep. They cover over a large area.

it is quite a common plant that many LFS stock. Last time I was at Y618 (last week) they had 2-3 pots.

For hair grass, I would trim the tips and allow them to float to the surface. This usually encourages bushier and faster growth.

For E.Tenellus I will either cut off leaves at the base of the plant (usually quite painstaking) or just pull out a few runners that shoot out in long chains and re-plant.

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## jiajuen900

This picture might help make it clear what the runners are and how the plants carpets

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## Urban Aquaria

> Echinodorus Tenellus carpets sideways? That sounds appealing to me. Fast growers are appealing as well, i guess i might go for that. Any idea if Seaview or Y618 has it? Just to check, for these carpeting grass, i saw a youtube video about trimming these carpet grass. They just stick the scissors in and trim off and allowing those cut off to float to the surface? Sounds messy though. Is that the right way?
> 
> Im holding off on CRS and RCS as i have a couple of rams. Dont want them to end up being food lol.


Yeah, if you plant dwarf hairgrass its a regular activity to trim them shorter as they grow out, then just use a net to collect the cut bits. 

Alternatively you could look at getting japanese hairgrass instead (which grow in a curved pattern, hence don't get as tall) or Eleocharis sp. "Mini" from Tropica which naturally stays short, then there'll be much less trimming required.

Btw, the good thing about hairgrass is they don't have as much issues of bottom layers melting because each grass blade grows vertically and can get light (unlike other carpet plants that grow in layers) and are usually less susceptible to be pulled out by shrimps, probably its easier for the shrimps to pick and eat algae off the grass blades without disturbing them too much in the process.

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## mercur1al

> Echinodorus Tenellus shoots out runners on the side from the main plant do it will carpet sideways. As UA mentioned, it has a very extensive root system. However, they usually do not root very deep. They cover over a large area.
> 
> it is quite a common plant that many LFS stock. Last time I was at Y618 (last week) they had 2-3 pots.
> 
> For hair grass, I would trim the tips and allow them to float to the surface. This usually encourages bushier and faster growth.
> 
> For E.Tenellus I will either cut off leaves at the base of the plant (usually quite painstaking) or just pull out a few runners that shoot out in long chains and re-plant.


Was looking through the E Tenellus photos and looks more like a grass scape. I was always inclined towards the HC/MC kind of small leaves carpet, but after my experiences with MC, they can get quite insane to plant. Each day got to deal with floaters, thats discouraging too.

I suppose the trimming part might still not be so tedious right now, when i have a proper carpet, the adrenalin and happiness might overshadow the trimming pains though... for now.. i have nothing to trim!

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## mercur1al

> Yeah, if you plant dwarf hairgrass its a regular activity to trim them shorter as they grow out, then just use a net to collect the cut bits. 
> 
> Alternatively you could look at getting japanese hairgrass instead (which grow in a curved pattern, hence don't get as tall) or Eleocharis sp. "Mini" from Tropica which naturally stays short, then there'll be much less trimming required.
> 
> Btw, the good thing about hairgrass is they don't have as much issues of bottom layers melting because each grass blade grows vertically and can get light (unlike other carpet plants that grow in layers) and are usually less susceptible to be pulled out by shrimps, probably its easier for the shrimps to pick and eat algae off the grass blades without disturbing them too much in the process.




Im now officially stuck between these 3 for my foreground carpet.

1. Hairgrass
2. Glosso
3. E Tenellus

So hard to make a decision... but key focus is grows well without CO2 (as in can see weekly progress), more rooted to prevent floaters.

Will look out for Rotalas as well. I have Nana in my tank as well, but i wrongly bought the non petite version. Ended up was too big and i cut the rhizome too much while separating them. Don't see them pearling, so dont expect them to last long. Will probably remove them tomorrow as well and plant more Rotalas. For Rotalas, i will remove them, cut them shorter and replant them.

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## jiajuen900

I personally would go with hair grass due to the aesthetics and it is a plant I generally like  :Razz:  But it is not one of the easiest plants to grow.

if you are looking for a more robust plant that you are unlikely to face an issues growing then I would say E tenullus.

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## jiajuen900

I was just looking at the pictures of your tank, (maybe you could try posting a front tank shot), there is this long red plant in one of the pictures. May I know what plant this is? It doesn't look like an aquatic plant, might be better to remove it.

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## mercur1al

> I was just looking at the pictures of your tank, (maybe you could try posting a front tank shot), there is this long red plant in one of the pictures. May I know what plant this is? It doesn't look like an aquatic plant, might be better to remove it.


I actually have no idea what plant it is too. Went to seaview, saw it and got it. I have a general weakness for red plants lol.

A bit paiseh to post the frontal shot now with how bad it looks. When i rescape it, then let me show it. 

This is the plant you are talking about. Yup i intend to pull it out tomorrow together with the Nana.

Attachment 44896

Any idea how come all the pics are in the wrong orientation? It is straight on my PC...

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## kurty

> Was looking through the E Tenellus photos and looks more like a grass scape. I was always inclined towards the HC/MC kind of small leaves carpet, but after my experiences with MC, they can get quite insane to plant. Each day got to deal with floaters, thats discouraging too.
> 
> I suppose the trimming part might still not be so tedious right now, when i have a proper carpet, the adrenalin and happiness might overshadow the trimming pains though... for now.. i have nothing to trim!




You made the same mistake as I did which is to introduce fauna while planting the foreground.

They need time to sink their roots.

I feel you, been through that stage.

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## kurty

I vote for hairgrass, try the Japanese hairgrass which selling $4 a pot at y618.

I tried growing them using excel and decent light, it works

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## mercur1al

> You made the same mistake as I did which is to introduce fauna while planting the foreground.
> 
> They need time to sink their roots.
> 
> I feel you, been through that stage.


I actually didnt have much choice.

I started this roughly 2-3 months back with a 1 foot tank. Overstocked and went to a 1.5foot tank, cut down on my fauna.

Subsequently went for a non planted tank for a month or so, couldnt fight the urge of a planted tank. I have a 3 footer outside my house, that one houses a few mollies. No filter, no substrate, almost 0 water changes. Got two breeding boxes and threw my fauna in there when i decided to go for a planted. 3 fishes died within an hour of going into that tank... 

Set up my planted and retrieved my fauna back into this tank around a week or so, once i felt that the fishes could survive. Thankfully they did with no casualties... figured they would have died had i left them in the 3 footer.

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## mercur1al

> I vote for hairgrass, try the Japanese hairgrass which selling $4 a pot at y618.
> 
> I tried growing them using excel and decent light, it works


No CO2 as well? Just curious, you have photos documenting the progress? How long did they take to carpet?

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## kurty

Well, it seems you also got poisoned some time in July like I am.  :Very Happy: 

It's OK, learn from mistakes too .. this period of time, I already set up 5 tanks..
Fails and redo, learning the hard way, battle with itk and now, with plants.
In fact, I Just finish my 2ft tank as of today, trying dsm and see if it can carpet.


I dont have any pictures but since you using ada soil. Things should be much easier.
For mine, the real growth starts when i insert root tabs and additional light.
They start to develope crawlers.

Anyway i transfer them to my 1.5ft, should be fine. Just did on sunday.

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## jiajuen900

> I actually have no idea what plant it is too. Went to seaview, saw it and got it. I have a general weakness for red plants lol.
> 
> A bit paiseh to post the frontal shot now with how bad it looks. When i rescape it, then let me show it. 
> 
> This is the plant you are talking about. Yup i intend to pull it out tomorrow together with the Nana.
> 
> Attachment 44896
> 
> Any idea how come all the pics are in the wrong orientation? It is straight on my PC...


yup! I am quite certain that is a not aquatic plant.

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## mercur1al

> Well, it seems you also got poisoned some time in July like I am. 
> 
> It's OK, learn from mistakes too .. this period of time, I already set up 5 tanks..
> Fails and redo, learning the hard way, battle with itk and now, with plants.
> In fact, I Just finish my 2ft tank as of today, trying dsm and see if it can carpet.
> 
> 
> I dont have any pictures but since you using ada soil. Things should be much easier.
> For mine, the real growth starts when i insert root tabs and additional light.
> ...



I thought about doing DSM for monte carlo as well, inspired by Urban bro's DSM for HC.

Decided against it because LFS told me Monte Carlo is really easy to grow, plus i figured i had to flood quickly so i could transfer my fauna over. Big mistake... Will go for Japanese hairgrass then. Shall pay y618 a visit tomorrow and pick up some... hopefully see if they have some rotalas. Otherwise might have to pay sunpets a visit.

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## mercur1al

> yup! I am quite certain that is a not aquatic plant.


Lol, Seaview shouldnt be selling it then. Will remove them... the leaves seem to be rotting away also. 

Shall probably just have Rotalas and maybe Myriophyllum mattogrossense. Saw a forumer selling it and fell in love with it. Haven't seen it in LFS though, any idea if it grows well in a low tech?

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## kurty

> I thought about doing DSM for monte carlo as well, inspired by Urban bro's DSM for HC.
> 
> Decided against it because LFS told me Monte Carlo is really easy to grow, plus i figured i had to flood quickly so i could transfer my fauna over. Big mistake... Will go for Japanese hairgrass then. Shall pay y618 a visit tomorrow and pick up some... hopefully see if they have some rotalas. Otherwise might have to pay sunpets a visit.



Wanted to tell you this,I feel you did the right thing by seeking opinions from others.
Unlike me, went into Liking and Impulse buying.
From budget to useless spending. haha

Y618, you can get the plants from there, pretty cheap compare to seaview, other than that, seaview still wins.
It has been a weekly regiment for me to visit seaview.. every weekend, Sure got stuff to buy.

Better call Y618 to check before you went a futile trip.

Kinda like rotalas but too bad, no more room for it.

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## mercur1al

> Wanted to tell you this,I feel you did the right thing by seeking opinions from others.
> Unlike me, went into Liking and Impulse buying.
> From budget to useless spending. haha
> 
> Y618, you can get the plants from there, pretty cheap compare to seaview, other than that, seaview still wins.
> It has been a weekly regiment for me to visit seaview.. every weekend, Sure got stuff to buy.
> 
> Better call Y618 to check before you went a futile trip.
> 
> Kinda like rotalas but too bad, no more room for it.


I really like the community here. Plenty of people with good knowledge and willing to share. You, urban, jiajuen etc. Seaview has a large number of plants, but mostly not labelled. Y618 is one of my fav, good cheap stuff, but they are pretty busy most of the time and the shop tenders dont have as much knowledge to share lol.

Seaview is massive, but for fauna i prefer to get from Sunpets. slightly more expensive, but fishes all look much healthier compared to Seaview...

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## Urban Aquaria

If you are keen to check out plants and their proper IDs, visit shops like Fishy Business, they stock the Tropica range of plants and everything is professionally labelled. 

Its one of the few times you can see what the healthy versions of the plants look like and their actual scientific names displayed on attached tags, no need to guess. It'll very quickly expand your knowledge of the numerous plants used for aquascaping.  :Very Happy:

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## mercur1al

> If you are keen to check out plants and their proper IDs, visit shops like Fishy Business, they stock the Tropica range of plants and everything is professionally labelled. 
> 
> Its one of the few times you can see what the healthy versions of the plants look like and their actual scientific names displayed on attached tags, no need to guess. It'll very quickly expand your knowledge of the numerous plants used for aquascaping.


Shall pay them a visit soon. Didnt have the time today, so i just went to Y618.

Basically picked up Japanese hair grass, and some assorted plants. No idea what they are, suppose they are some kind of Rotalas. Basically gonna plant them, see what does well and keep them, remove those that don't.

Frontal tank shot - I am a little overstocked on Fauna atm, working out where to shift the fish to.

Attachment 44921

Unknown plants which caught my eye
1.
Attachment 44927

2.
Attachment 44925

3.
Attachment 44926

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## Urban Aquaria

Overstocked mean good excuse to start another tank...  :Laughing: 

As for the plants in your photos, based on my closest ID:

1. Limnophila Sessiliflora
2. Rotala Nanjenshan
3. Cabomba Caroliniana

All of them are easy and fast growing stem plants.

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## jiajuen900

Can't seem to see the front tank shot  :Razz:

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## mercur1al

> Overstocked mean good excuse to start another tank... 
> 
> As for the plants in your photos, based on my closest ID:
> 
> 1. Limnophila Sessiliflora
> 2. Rotala Nanjenshan
> 3. Cabomba Caroliniana
> 
> All of them are easy and fast growing stem plants.


You Sir, are a walking encyclopedia! Amazing!

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## mercur1al

> Can't seem to see the front tank shot



Bro try to click on the attachment

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## mercur1al

#day2

Ordered the timer as well. Once it arrives, gonna set it up on a siesta regime. 10am - 2pm, 6pm-10pm.

Had a few hairgrass float this morning, figured it was due to the albino pleco digging and digging. Shifted him out since 10 in the morning, and so far so good.

Attachment 44943

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## kurty

Nice display of colors, noticr you even have a lily pipe.
I guess your next poison will be co2 and better lights.

Haha.

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## mercur1al

> Nice display of colors, noticr you even have a lily pipe.
> I guess your next poison will be co2 and better lights.
> 
> Haha.


Might not go for CO2, actually intend to keep it low tech lol.

I was choosing between the UpAqua, but eventually got the Beamswork as I thought the spread was slightly better lol.

The lily pipes are mainly cause I thought they looked good lol, they are acrylic though so relatively cheap.

Thinking of setting up a small 30cm cube for shrimps now. Lol

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## kurty

> Might not go for CO2, actually intend to keep it low tech lol.
> 
> I was choosing between the UpAqua, but eventually got the Beamswork as I thought the spread was slightly better lol.
> 
> The lily pipes are mainly cause I thought they looked good lol, they are acrylic though so relatively cheap.
> 
> Thinking of setting up a small 30cm cube for shrimps now. Lol



Well, Beamworks not doubt intensity was there but not strong to trigger growth.
Up aqua seems to be stronger and better.

You happen to stay at Punggol area? 

I too got a shrimp tank and a spare crystal tank for sales, should you required 

Haha

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## mercur1al

What size and price for the crystal tank bro? I don't stay in Punggol, but I drive so its not an issue lol

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## jiajuen900

> #day2
> 
> Ordered the timer as well. Once it arrives, gonna set it up on a siesta regime. 10am - 2pm, 6pm-10pm.
> 
> Had a few hairgrass float this morning, figured it was due to the albino pleco digging and digging. Shifted him out since 10 in the morning, and so far so good.
> 
> Attachment 44943


Nice Tank! Should see some nice lush growth. The Hair Grass is well planted. Nicely spread to small bunches  :Well done: 
Where did you get the acrylic pipes from? Are they from E-bay? I'm considering getting a set.

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## mercur1al

> Nice Tank! Should see some nice lush growth. The Hair Grass is well planted. Nicely spread to small bunches 
> Where did you get the acrylic pipes from? Are they from E-bay? I'm considering getting a set.


Yes bro, from EBay.

Check out Urban bro's review on it.

The hairgrass was not as tedious as trying to separate the Monte Carlo earlier. 

The actual planting not that bad, but trying to separate them into small clumps was tiring.

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## mercur1al

> Nice Tank! Should see some nice lush growth. The Hair Grass is well planted. Nicely spread to small bunches 
> Where did you get the acrylic pipes from? Are they from E-bay? I'm considering getting a set.


Some discussion about the acrylic and in general, non ADA or expensive Lily Pipes and if they actually do create a vortex.

A quick video to showcase the lily pipe vortex in action. No idea how it compares to the real deal, anyone on the real ADA pipes can comment?

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## mercur1al

With the plants more or less in place, thought the rocks look a bit bare right now.

Was contemplating if i should tie mosses or ferns to it for a more "green" look.

What do you guys think?

Attachment 44970

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## aarondylan

Mosses would be good i reckon =) just my 2 cent of view

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## Urban Aquaria

> With the plants more or less in place, thought the rocks look a bit bare right now.
> 
> Was contemplating if i should tie mosses or ferns to it for a more "green" look.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> Attachment 44970


Tying mosses or other plants to the rock could work, though once they cover the rock it gets hidden and ceases to be a hardscape feature.

Even if the rock is left alone it will usually eventually be covered in algae over time anyways (hopefully it's the nice fuzzy bright green type).  :Smile:

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## mercur1al

> Tying mosses or other plants to the rock could work, though once they cover the rock it gets hidden and ceases to be a hardscape feature.
> 
> Even if the rock is left alone it will usually eventually be covered in algae over time anyways (hopefully it's the nice fuzzy bright green type).


Can't decide... the tying part is what puts me off right now. Never tied and can't tie for nuts lol. Came across a few articles where people superglued mosses to DW and rocks, like how you superglued nanas to pebbles. Might try that on one rock first though.

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## jiajuen900

I think the rocks look nice! Gives the tank character :P

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## mercur1al

Day 5.

The growth of the stem plants are insane, but sadly not much in the way of the hair grass. Dosing excel daily at the start of photo cycle, and flourish every tuesday and friday.

Attachment 45000

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## kurty

> Day 5.
> 
> The growth of the stem plants are insane, but sadly not much in the way of the hair grass. Dosing excel daily at the start of photo cycle, and flourish every tuesday and friday.
> 
> Attachment 45000


Patience , bro.

My hairgrass only start growing or spreading like 2 month with excel

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## mercur1al

> Patience , bro.
> 
> My hairgrass only start growing or spreading like 2 month with excel


Ya bro, guess have to be that way. First 3 days first thing i did in the morning after jumping out of bed was to look at the hairgrass, wondering if they had grown.... lol

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## mercur1al

Day 15.

Attachment 45197

Fighting some algae problems now, looks like brown diatom algaes. Kinda expected as a new tank syndrome... last time i had it in my old tank, a couple of Otos fixed it. This time round, its just one single oto and its not as effective. Might pick up another couple to deal with it. 

Did a first round trimming for the Limnophila Sessiflora, Rotalas and Cambomba and replanted some of the trimmings to make it a little more dense. Doing so also cleared up a small section... planning to add one more plant. Went to Y618 but nothing caught my eye this time round... would appreciate any suggestions for the bare spot.

Japanese hairgrass looks like its growing... but really slowly. At least now can see runners coming up from beneath the substrate. Much better success compared to planting Monte Carlo as my foreground plant earlier. Still a long way to go though...

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## mercur1al

Day 25 updates.

Completely pulled up my Cambomba, they are really prone to dropping their leaves and choking up my intake. Kept 2-3 stalks and planted them away from the intake. For the limnophila sessiflora, i trimmed them earlier and left the trimmed stems planted. They eventually grew new shoots and i pulled them all out, replanted these shoots and got rid of the original stems since the leaves turned brown after i cut them. 

Finally the dreaded algae start appearing  :Sad:  

Fighting 3 different kinds now, brown diatom. Pretty much gone, the 3 Otos did a good job of clearing the tank glass. There is more, but pretty unaccessible as it is right by the substrate.



For the second kind of algae, it seriously is a backbreaking activity to get off. The Otos are not eating these, i suspect they are too glued to the glass for their little mouths to handle. I had to manually use a scrubbing pad to clean them off. Good thing is, they seem to be controlled now, they didn't come back on the areas i scrubbed. I left these areas for now as they are too close to the substrate, don't want to unintentionally pull out the growing hairgrass.



And lastly, looks like hair algae! Spot dosed with excel when i found it earlier today, will see how they react before deciding if to turn down the photo period. Also added a packet of Salvinia to soak up some of the excess nutrients. 




Some tank specs:

Roughly 50L tank. 
Beamswork Hi Lumens 50 Light. Photo period from 9am - 1pm and then 5pm - 9pm.
1ml of Excel daily, 1ml of Flourish every tuesday and friday. 30% - 40% water change every Friday. 
No Co2 injection.

Any suggestions on what else i could do?

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## tureblue82

buy a Siamese Algae Eater for hair algae :Wink: 
change water 50% 2 times a week.
probably cut down 1hr of your photo period.

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## mercur1al

Hard to find real SAE  :Sad: 

Will change water twice weekly, on Tuesday and Fridays before I dose flourish. 

I snipped off part of the hairgrass as well to remove some of the algae. Using a toothbrush proved quite impossible, nothing was coming out!

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## Gavan

i think if you pull on the algae with toothbrush your hairgrass will uproot lol. real SAE? v easy to find. if you not sure, GC sells them for $2. heh

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## mercur1al

Yes, will definitely uproot lol! That's why i didn't use much force.

Picked up 3 SAE (?) at Seaview just now. Can't find time to go GC these couple of weeks, Seaview is easier as its more convenient. Have no idea if they are real SAEs, or flying fox. I guess we will find out soon lol

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## mercur1al

Got a pic of one of them. Really hard to get a good pic, they are always swimming!

Anyone wants to offer your opinion on whether these are real SAEs? Lol

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## Gavan

it's SAE. easiest to tell us from the dorsal fin. sae dorsals are completely transparent. also, can compare the tails. see here: http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

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## mercur1al

Yup I took a chance on them too.

Stood in front of the tank at seaview frantically googling.

Apparently, the authentic SAEs have:

1. Transparent dorsal fins
2. A jagged like black line running until mid tail
3. Young SAEs actually school, compared to the rest.

Reason 3 was the main reason I took a chance, truth be told, under the lights at Seaview plus the fact they are so active Meant I couldn't get a good look at their fins.

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## Gavan

haha congrats. I wish I stayed near seaview also. ironically I stay and work near both GCs. it's a trap..

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## mercur1al

> haha congrats. I wish I stayed near seaview also. ironically I stay and work near both GCs. it's a trap..


I stay near Y618, its a mini trap for me too! Lol

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## jiajuen900

The SAE can grow quite large and will eventually outgrow the 1.5ft tank. Although at this size they are great algae eaters for now.
Try not to feed them too much as they will get stubborn to eat algae if other food is readily available for them

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## mercur1al

Guess I have not much of a choice, hopefully by the time they get too big I would have balanced my tank and have less algae problems to deal with.

Or will give these away and buy new ones.

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## amaninus

> #day2
> 
> Ordered the timer as well. Once it arrives, gonna set it up on a siesta regime. 10am - 2pm, 6pm-10pm.
> 
> Had a few hairgrass float this morning, figured it was due to the albino pleco digging and digging. Shifted him out since 10 in the morning, and so far so good.
> 
> Attachment 44943


Bro, nice tank you got there. I am impressed! Hair grass looks really cool. I am still struggling with the glosso. They keep floating. I wonder if my tank substrate is too thin. (About 1"). How thick is your tanks substrate?

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## mercur1al

> Bro, nice tank you got there. I am impressed! Hair grass looks really cool. I am still struggling with the glosso. They keep floating. I wonder if my tank substrate is too thin. (About 1"). How thick is your tanks substrate?


My tank actually looks slightly different now from the picture.



The cambomba on the right was frustrating me, they were growing way too fast and frequently dropped their leaves which clogged up my intake pipe. I pulled them out, trimmed 3 stalks and replanted them. The limnophila sessiflora you see also got trimmed to almost nothing, and replanted on the right side. I also picked up a few stalks of Rotala Macrandra, those are the low red plants you see in the centre of the tank.

Right side of the tank looks a bit bare due to the extensive trimming and replanting i did, but the Limnophila Sessiflora is growing well. I expect them to reach the top of the water surface in approximately 2 weeks, that's how fast they grow!

My substrate is roughly 5cm thick. Do you have fauna in the tank already? If so, what kind? They might be the ones who are actively digging and causing your glosso to float. Is it a CO2 injected tank? I have a small nano tank which i planted glosso too, progress is really slow as well. It's also a low tech, and I do see some Glosso turning yellow and melting away.

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## amaninus

> My tank actually looks slightly different now from the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> The cambomba on the right was frustrating me, they were growing way too fast and frequently dropped their leaves which clogged up my intake pipe. I pulled them out, trimmed 3 stalks and replanted them. The limnophila sessiflora you see also got trimmed to almost nothing, and replanted on the right side. I also picked up a few stalks of Rotala Macrandra, those are the low red plants you see in the centre of the tank.
> 
> Right side of the tank looks a bit bare due to the extensive trimming and replanting i did, but the Limnophila Sessiflora is growing well. I expect them to reach the top of the water surface in approximately 2 weeks, that's how fast they grow!
> 
> My substrate is roughly 5cm thick. Do you have fauna in the tank already? If so, what kind? They might be the ones who are actively digging and causing your glosso to float. Is it a CO2 injected tank? I have a small nano tank which i planted glosso too, progress is really slow as well. It's also a low tech, and I do see some Glosso turning yellow and melting away.


Your tank is more colorful now! Awesome! Hair grass seem to do even better than the previous pic.
Mine are low tech. U shared with me how to calculate the volume of my tank (8.4l tank which I misunderstood as 2 liter tank). Haha. 

I only have 1 betta in the tank.It's small tank but look bare. First batch of Glosso is melting, the ones I got yesterday is not so green (I believe it's turning yellow). I got 3 pot of glosso yesterday, thinking of filling the tank, but after 1 pot, I gave up. They just don't stay in the substrate. It's frustrating. Could my 2.5-3 cm thick substrate be too thin to hold the glosso?

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## mercur1al

> Your tank is more colorful now! Awesome! Hair grass seem to do even better than the previous pic.
> Mine are low tech. U shared with me how to calculate the volume of my tank (8.4l tank which I misunderstood as 2 liter tank). Haha. 
> 
> I only have 1 betta in the tank.It's small tank but look bare. First batch of Glosso is melting, the ones I got yesterday is not so green (I believe it's turning yellow). I got 3 pot of glosso yesterday, thinking of filling the tank, but after 1 pot, I gave up. They just don't stay in the substrate. It's frustrating. Could my 2.5-3 cm thick substrate be too thin to hold the glosso?



How deep did you root the Glosso? 

I have glosso in my nano shrimp tank as well, low tech. They are growing extremely slowly, but can see runners. I just inserted them into the substrate until only the leaves could be seen. They don't really float, only occasionally when one of the tank inhabitants feel like having some fun, then one poorly rooted one might float. 

Did you separate the glosso properly before planting? Supposed to separate into individual stalks to plant. A big clump will not see any growth, and more prone to floating.

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## kurty

nice tank, getting better everyday.

i always adore low tech tank..efficiency and effectiveness..
*thumbs up  :Very Happy:

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## amaninus

> How deep did you root the Glosso? 
> 
> I have glosso in my nano shrimp tank as well, low tech. They are growing extremely slowly, but can see runners. I just inserted them into the substrate until only the leaves could be seen. They don't really float, only occasionally when one of the tank inhabitants feel like having some fun, then one poorly rooted one might float. 
> 
> Did you separate the glosso properly before planting? Supposed to separate into individual stalks to plant. A big clump will not see any growth, and more prone to floating.


I root them to the bottom of the tank. I guess the substrate is too thin, that's why it can't bury the roots. I will go get more substrate to top up.

I tried to separate the glosso. Honestly, after separating, some are almost left with 2 or 3 leaves only. Haha. But I m seriously considering dwarf hair grass. GC sells a pot at $5. Should have got them when I was there.

Really impress with your tank.

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## mercur1al

> nice tank, getting better everyday.
> 
> i always adore low tech tank..efficiency and effectiveness..
> *thumbs up


Bro, my tank is a far cry from the 2 feet and bigger tanks you guys have. Its just a planted tank with no theme, its not even an aquascape lol

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## mercur1al

> I root them to the bottom of the tank. I guess the substrate is too thin, that's why it can't bury the roots. I will go get more substrate to top up.
> 
> I tried to separate the glosso. Honestly, after separating, some are almost left with 2 or 3 leaves only. Haha. But I m seriously considering dwarf hair grass. GC sells a pot at $5. Should have got them when I was there.
> 0
> Really impress with your tank.



Based on my 2 tanks, for a low tech, seems like DHG grows better. Easier to plant as well in my opinion. I planted Monte Carlo initially, wasn't too happy with it before switching to dwarf hair grass.

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## Gavan

ok I'm choose DHG as my next carpet! any to sell in December?  :Very Happy:

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## mercur1al

Doubt I will have bro, the DHG grows well enough, but still slow in a low tech tank.

Besides, I have no idea how to harvest! Lol!

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## kurty

> Bro, my tank is a far cry from the 2 feet and bigger tanks you guys have. Its just a planted tank with no theme, its not even an aquascape lol


dont say that, everyone start off with baby steps, who knows.
maybe one fine day, your tank will appear in ADA website  :Very Happy:

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## kurty

> ok I'm choose DHG as my next carpet! any to sell in December?


i actually have some DHG for sales..
still in my tank..
bought it from a seller here for $10.
let me know if you are keen.  :Very Happy:

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## Gavan

> i actually have some DHG for sales..
> still in my tank..
> bought it from a seller here for $10.
> let me know if you are keen.


Oh no. sorry all. I just checked. Hairgrass "mini" is different from DHG. :/

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## mercur1al

This is what happens when you lack the equipment to clean your lily pipes.... Aka known as too lazy to clean.



However, this arrived today. Tomorrow the lily pipes will look spanking new again!  :Grin: 



Thanks to UA for the recommendation!

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## georgelam

Nice tank and journal! I faced many similar problems when i started my tank, even the same form of algae! I love the colors in your tank, its very vibrant. Im currently trying a monte carlo carpet. Previously i tried glosso and it all melted away. Hopefully monte carlo does better. It not ill change to hairgrass like you. your hairgrass seems to be doing very well.

By the way i house cherry shrimps and rams in the same tank. After one casualty, all the cherry shrimps got the message and knew how to avoid the rams. Rams don't really bother the shrimps too if you feed them well.

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## mercur1al

> Nice tank and journal! I faced many similar problems when i started my tank, even the same form of algae! I love the colors in your tank, its very vibrant. Im currently trying a monte carlo carpet. Previously i tried glosso and it all melted away. Hopefully monte carlo does better. It not ill change to hairgrass like you. your hairgrass seems to be doing very well.
> 
> By the way i house cherry shrimps and rams in the same tank. After one casualty, all the cherry shrimps got the message and knew how to avoid the rams. Rams don't really bother the shrimps too if you feed them well.



Thanks for the compliment! Made the step to a planted tank after being inspired by the numerous fantastic scapes here. Limited by the small tank size though, currently its not possible to get a bigger tank with cabinet, hence i have to work with 1.5ft to 2 ft tanks.

Currently fighting nutrient deficiencies though, I thought it was just Potassium deficiency, so i purchased Potassium Sulphate to dose. Looks like it might be something else though, the plants are not recovering. Everything else is generally ok, but the Rotala Macrandras are suffering.

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## Gavan

> Thanks for the compliment! Made the step to a planted tank after being inspired by the numerous fantastic scapes here. Limited by the small tank size though, currently its not possible to get a bigger tank with cabinet, hence i have to work with 1.5ft to 2 ft tanks.
> 
> Currently fighting nutrient deficiencies though, I thought it was just Potassium deficiency, so i purchased Potassium Sulphate to dose. Looks like it might be something else though, the plants are not recovering. Everything else is generally ok, but the Rotala Macrandras are suffering.


hey bro, was just about to reply you on that. I realized that you have the emersed form of R. macrandra planted. very obvious from the leaves. the new thinner leaves at the top are the new, submerged form leaves. You'll have to trim off the top soon, once you get a good, long enough submerged stem to replant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## mUAr_cHEe

> You Sir, are a walking encyclopedia! Amazing!


Pls give credit to some of us too.







We are Children's Nursery Rhymes Book too.  :Laughing:

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## mercur1al

> hey bro, was just about to reply you on that. I realized that you have the emersed form of R. macrandra planted. very obvious from the leaves. the new thinner leaves at the top are the new, submerged form leaves. You'll have to trim off the top soon, once you get a good, long enough submerged stem to replant. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are absolutely right bro, thanks!

Remember that when i bought the plant, it stated Rotala Macrandra Emmersed. Will look to trim once they reach the ideal length to replant.

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## mercur1al

> Pls give credit to some of us too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are Children's Nursery Rhymes Book too.


Of course dude! 

Apart from UA, you, kurty, Gavan and jiajuen900 have also helped massively. Thank you!

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## Ingen

> Got a pic of one of them. Really hard to get a good pic, they are always swimming!
> 
> Anyone wants to offer your opinion on whether these are real SAEs? Lol


I remember reading one of the thread on true SAE, it mentioned that there is a black botch at the anal area (under belly).

----------


## mercur1al

How the tank looks like now after some trimming...

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## amaninus

> How the tank looks like now after some trimming...


Hi, is that hortwort on the right? They look pretty short. May i know how tall is your tank? In fact, what is the tank dimension?

Just curious.

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## mercur1al

> Hi, is that hortwort on the right? They look pretty short. May i know how tall is your tank? In fact, what is the tank dimension?
> 
> Just curious.


Those on the right are Limnophila Sessiflora. Grows at an alarming rate, I have to constantly trim them.

Tank is 45cm across, roughly 29cm tall and 30cm wide.

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## XxbloodxX

Plants are looking good!

----------

