# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' as carpet foreground?

## Mookie

Any bros have tried planting this as a foreground? Have faced with any problems??

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## Shadow

I do, easy plant creeping even under shadow

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## Urban Aquaria

You should check out George Farmer's "One Pot Iwagumi Challenge" thread at the UKAPS forum:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/g...allenge.29695/

He use only *one* pot of it at the start and managed to create a full tank carpet in 7 weeks... but of course his skill and equipment is at super kilat level.  :Grin:

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## Apistoinka

Where to get the plant as mention on the thread?? Does it demand high co2 like hc??

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## Mookie

> I do, easy plant creeping even under shadow


Any potential problems or things I got to take note of?

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## Mookie

> You should check out George Farmer's "One Pot Iwagumi Challenge" thread at the UKAPS forum:
> 
> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/g...allenge.29695/
> 
> He use only *one* pot of it at the start and managed to create a full tank carpet in 7 weeks... but of course his skill and equipment is at super kilat level.


Ya damn kilat sia haha his 1 pot can sprinkle so nicely

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## Mookie

I'm abit suspicious cos from what I read, this plant seems easier to grow than HC, but don't seem that popular. So wondering if it has some downside that I should know before attempting haha

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## tcg170980

It grow really fast. One pot u let it grow tall and can harvest. 
Bought before from Fishy business.

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## Shadow

because currently only Tropica sell it in Singapore which is very expensive.

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## Mookie

> because currently only Tropica sell it in Singapore which is very expensive.


Very expensive  :Shocked: Sounds scary

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## Mookie

Any bros willingly to spare some in 2 months time? Can whatsapp me at 90997883 pls  :Grin:

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## qngwn

shadow, able to advise on the co2, fert, as well as the light level requirement of the plant? what about the growth rate?

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## limz_777

this new name really puzzled me , tropica wrongly id their plants ?

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## Urban Aquaria

> this new name really puzzled me , tropica wrongly id their plants ?


Yeah, it was previously known as Elatine Hydropiper, then later discovered to actually be from the Micranthemum genus through DNA sequencing, though the exact species is still unknown, hence the interim "Monte Carlo" label.

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## Shadow

> shadow, able to advise on the co2, fert, as well as the light level requirement of the plant? what about the growth rate?


CO2 and fert depend on the light you put it. This plant does not require much light to grow. It can grow creeping eventhough under the shadow. Grow rate is very fast.

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## qngwn

> CO2 and fert depend on the light you put it. This plant does not require much light to grow. It can grow creeping eventhough under the shadow. Grow rate is very fast.


It can grow creeping even though under the 'shadow'. Pun intended? Haha

Well of course, look who's the pro here, can grow under all conditions. Haha just kidding. If the light is too strong, does it grow upwards like how glosso does? 

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## Shadow

> this new name really puzzled me , tropica wrongly id their plants ?


It does happen once a while, for example
micranthemum micranthemoides became Hemianthus micranthemoides
Echinodorus tenellus became Helanthium tenellum

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## Shadow

> It can grow creeping even though under the 'shadow'. Pun intended? Haha
> 
> Well of course, look who's the pro here, can grow under all conditions. Haha just kidding. If the light is too strong, does it grow upwards like how glosso does? 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I have yet to try it in different scape like iwagumi, but so far it grow creeping regardless directly under the light or under the branch.

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## Mookie

> I have yet to try it in different scape like iwagumi, but so far it grow creeping regardless directly under the light or under the branch.


Possibly the next project for you? Might just start a craze  :Grin:

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## limz_777

any pictures to share ? anubias is the one selling the real elatine _hydropiper_ ? i remember it looks like miniature version on glosso

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## qngwn

> any pictures to share ? anubias is the one selling the real elatine _hydropiper_ ? i remember it looks like miniature version on glosso


You can find the pictures here:
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/g...allenge.29695/

this a the Elatine Hydropiper
u9uqe4et.jpg

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## limz_777

ok , monte carlo look very similar to hc

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## Mookie

Will be making this my foreground then! Seems like a good and easy alternative to HC and Glosso  :Razz:

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## apek19

What's the damage like per pot? Only tropica brand has them?

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## Mookie

So which color will the foreground look more like if I use Monte Carlo as a foreground?

image.jpg

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## Mookie

Any pros can advise? Monte Carlo carpet will be closer to the first picture above?

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## MartinN

I have it growing as a forground carpet in my low-medium light tank.. with co2 and daily fert. 
Just grows alittle slower because i dont have high light. But it still carpets. 
I have had it for about a year and I really like it as a forground plant. It is easy and very algae free. color wise it does not look like any of those pictures i think. 
Tom Barr had it in his tank http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...e-Carlo-Bricks
Mine is the same kind. 
Im not sure if Tropicas monte carlo is the same plant as i have not seen it yet.

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## Ingen

Just planted some yesterday in my low co2 shrimp tank and one small portion in my low tech non co2 with weekly dose of excel for testing. I can see them forming pearls on the leaves (not pearling effect) in the low co2 tank about an hour after I planted them in. Hopefully it will carpet nicely like HC

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## tubularistical

> Just planted some yesterday in my low co2 shrimp tank and one small portion in my low tech non co2 with weekly dose of excel for testing. I can see them forming pearls on the leaves (not pearling effect) in the low co2 tank about an hour after I planted them in. Hopefully it will carpet nicely like HC


Hi Ingen,
I'm thinking of using monte carlo for my revamped 1.5ft tank, which I'm going to try to keep low-tech if possible. Would you mind updating me with your observations from your low tech tank, especially if it all melts away?  :Grin:  Don't want to go through all the individual planting only for it to die a few weeks later. Thanks very much in advance!  :Smile:

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## Ingen

> Hi Ingen,
> I'm thinking of using monte carlo for my revamped 1.5ft tank, which I'm going to try to keep low-tech if possible. Would you mind updating me with your observations from your low tech tank, especially if it all melts away?  Don't want to go through all the individual planting only for it to die a few weeks later. Thanks very much in advance!


Update you soon, so far no melting and it seems to have creep somewhat (could be just me!). Didn't get to check the tank as the adapter to the LED light fused and just got it replaced, will have to see how the small portion is tonight.

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## tubularistical

Thanks, Ingen! Looking forward to your updates  :Smile:

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## chazrt

I just restarted a new tank with Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' as well. Have CO2 and Chiller running. Will let you know how it goes.

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## Mookie

Some pics would be great!

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## Ingen

> Thanks, Ingen! Looking forward to your updates


Coming to a week and still looking good. No signs of melting and I think it creep alittle, can't be sure

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## tubularistical

Very cute! Thanks for the update! Looks a lot better than most foreground plants would in a low co2 environment..

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## dhmy2kgto

Where can i source for Monte Carlo? Did not manage to locate it at C328

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## sammajor

Fishy business at blk 46 sim place

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## dhmy2kgto

> Fishy business at blk 46 sim place


Thanks bro!

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## cherabin

Roger may be out of stock for the monte carlo. Maybe you'll like to call and check first. 

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## dhmy2kgto

> Roger may be out of stock for the monte carlo. Maybe you'll like to call and check first. 
> 
> Sent from my GT-N8000 using Tapatalk


Well do, thanks for the advice

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## tcg170980

was there on Tuesday and sold out.

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## cherabin

Hi Ingen. Any update on how the Monte Carlo is thriving in your low-tech set up? My hands are vey itchy to try this out in a similar low energy tank. 


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## Ingen

The plant is still alive in my low tech cherry shrimp tank, growing very very slowly. I think it got denser but minimal spreading. Let me try to take a picture today after work.

While those on my high tech shrimp tank was growing and spreading till the CRS decided to treat it like my HC carpet and started to pull it out.

Conclusion, cherry are not as much as a gardener than CRS... haha.

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## mavryan

I tried planting it with mid light (about 1 watt per gallon with LED) and with CO2 (1-2 bps) but the plant seems to melt away already like 1/4 of it. Not sure what I had done wrongly...
in my tank for one week, don't seems to grow at all but turning translucent..
anyone can help to advise what should I do?

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## Mookie

> I tried planting it with mid light (about 1 watt per gallon with LED) and with CO2 (1-2 bps) but the plant seems to melt away already like 1/4 of it. Not sure what I had done wrongly...
> in my tank for one week, don't seems to grow at all but turning translucent..
> anyone can help to advise what should I do?


how many hours of light you giving it? Cos when you just replant, I believe 4-6 hrs is sufficient, cos the plant is still fragile and needs time to adapt before blasting the lights. I planted mine with 4hrs light, 2hrs break and then another 4hrs after. Within 3 weeks it carpeted nicely. Now I'm only giving it 5hrs of light per day and it seems to be doing fine.

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## cherabin

> I tried planting it with mid light (about 1 watt per gallon with LED) and with CO2 (1-2 bps) but the plant seems to melt away already like 1/4 of it. Not sure what I had done wrongly...
> in my tank for one week, don't seems to grow at all but turning translucent..
> anyone can help to advise what should I do?


Your source of Monte Carlo?

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## mavryan

Omg, I blast it with 12 hours light as my tank has no algae "yet". Will reduce the light time to 8 hours and see how it goes.
I bought the plant from Tropica cup.

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## hann

Seems like monte Carlo source is increasing now. Saw them in the LFS in sims place.

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## cherabin

Hi Hann. Are you referring to Aquatic Connection?


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## hann

> Hi Hann. Are you referring to Aquatic Connection?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Yes. Last weekend when I was there, they have a lot. In their display tank and other small tanks

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## Shadow

> Seems like monte Carlo source is increasing now. Saw them in the LFS in sims place.


Its an easy plant, much easier than glosso and HC. Soon everyone will start selling it  :Laughing:

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## cherabin

Yes. C328 is selling MC as well. 


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## Mookie

> Omg, I blast it with 12 hours light as my tank has no algae "yet". Will reduce the light time to 8 hours and see how it goes.
> I bought the plant from Tropica cup.


better if you can try for less than 6hours first then slowly adjust the photoperiod by an hour or so after a week. If there's algae, can try reduce an hour from there.

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## chazrt

I grew mine with 6 hrs light and CO2. Nice growth

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## Mookie

Just to share the growth of MC in my tank
1sr picture is just planted. 
2nd picture is after 3weeks.
i use Up Aqua Pro Z Led for 4hrs, siesta 2hrs and 4hrs lighting per day
Fert- Just 2ml of lushgro aqua twice a week, 2 drops of micro twice a week and 2ml seachem phosphorus per week.

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## Mookie



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## Mookie



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## Mookie

I found MC to be very easy to grow compared to the horror stories I heard of HC. It will be better to plant them as small plantlets, what I did was cut a plant into tiny sections consisting of 2 leaves and some roots and plant it. It will be painstaking but will help it carpet better as a plant seems to only grow in 2 directions, front and end. Also filling up bare areas with cuttings will help it cover bare spots.

This is my first planted tank and I was searching for a easy carpet plant to grow at the start and stumbled upon MC. There wasn't much info on MC on the internet but bros like Shadow, UA and Eric shared their experiences with me. I hope to share this, to be able to help other bros out there looking for an easy carpet plant to grow. Good luck and have fun!

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## strat

Can DSM method be used on MC?

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## Mookie

> Can DSM method be used on MC?


I don't think you will need DSM, cos MC seem to take root pretty fast. Just plant it nicely in the substrate. There might be a few floaters in the next few days after planting but easily fixed. However do avoid amano shrimps and Corys for at least 1 month. They tend to uproot the MC

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## Urban Aquaria

> Can DSM method be used on MC?


Yes, it can be grown via DSM. 

I'm currently cultivating it in outdoor containers (my indoor tanks all ran out of "floor" space), grows very fast in emersed conditions, can see new runners and leaves daily.

In nature they grow emersed on the banks of rivers and streams too, check out these photos from a japanese blog journal:





Source: http://pokoujiaz.exblog.jp/11591129/

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## strat

> Yes, it can be grown via DSM. 
> 
> I'm currently cultivating it in outdoor containers (my indoor tanks all ran out of "floor" space), grows very fast in emersed conditions, can see new runners and leaves daily.
> 
> In nature they grow emersed on the banks of rivers and streams too, check out these photos from a japanese blog journal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi UA.
thanks for the reply.
trying HCs with dsm and thinking of adding MCs too.

Any idea how to differentiate HCs and MCs?
To me they look like same....

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi UA.
> thanks for the reply.
> trying HCs with dsm and thinking of adding MCs too.
> 
> Any idea how to differentiate HCs and MCs?
> To me they look like same....


They do look similar from afar, but on closeup HC leaves are generally much smaller and the distance between each whorl of leaves is closer, hence it has a very dense compact look even within a small bunch... with MC you can see the distinct pairs of opposing round leaves at each point along a runner, it only becomes compact looking when multiple runners criss-cross each other to create dense layers.

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## strat

> They do look similar from afar, but on closeup HC leaves are generally much smaller and the distance between each whorl of leaves is closer, hence it has a very dense compact look even within a small bunch... with MC you can see the distinct pairs of opposing round leaves at each point along a runner, it only becomes compact looking when multiple runners criss-cross each other to create dense layers.


Thanks you for the reply, UA!

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## tcg170980

Simes monte.jpg
aquatic connection at sims place does not even plant to soil and you can see the monte carlo growing like carpet.

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## cherabin

I saw the monte carlo on lava rocks at Aquatic Connection and is impressed that it's spreading very well. Most likely, an easy plant as most forummers pointed out.

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## limz_777

> I saw the monte carlo on lava rocks at Aquatic Connection and is impressed that it's spreading very well. Most likely, an easy plant as most forummers pointed out.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N8000 using Tapatalk


indeed a easy plant , withstand high temperature of 30 c and creeps well under just 10 watt up aqua z lighting

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## solidbrik

Got my 1-2 - grow cup from Roger. .trying DSM. .dunno what's wrong..but after 2 days..They seem to be melting..not taking root too..on up aqua z series 2 ft lighting..on for 1 2-4 hrs a day..too much light?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Got my 1-2 - grow cup from Roger. .trying DSM. .dunno what's wrong..but after 2 days..They seem to be melting..not taking root too..on up aqua z series 2 ft lighting..on for 1 2-4 hrs a day..too much light?


Some melting can be expected as the plants transition to a new environment, just carry on misting the plants and soil regularly (but not too damp or waterlogged) and maintain the 12-14 hour photoperiod. Eventually new runners and leaves will grow out and start to carpet very soon.

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## solidbrik

Hey Roger. .didn't realise u r urban aquaria. .thanks! U had been most helpful in my journey..see u soon..  :Smile: 

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hey Roger. .didn't realise u r urban aquaria. .thanks! U had been most helpful in my journey..see u soon..


I'm not roger... i'm just replying to your post based on my own experience with DSM.  :Very Happy:

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## Mookie

> Hey Roger. .didn't realise u r urban aquaria. .thanks! U had been most helpful in my journey..see u soon.. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


LOL damn funny

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## solidbrik

Lol...tot saw in another thread someone mentioned UA=Roger...but anyway..The thanks still stand!  :Smile: 

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## hiisoka

> Ya damn kilat sia haha his 1 pot can sprinkle so nicely


Appropriately named too  :Very Happy: 

very nice growth, for my new scape im doing the same as what he did,
hopefully can replicate the results as well  :Smile:

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## Mookie

> Appropriately named too 
> 
> very nice growth, for my new scape im doing the same as what he did,
> hopefully can replicate the results as well


can share some pictures bro?

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## ZacNg

I also using just 1 pot of monte carlo to carpet my 1.5ft tank, just pass the first week and seems to be doing well.

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## sixhunter

> Its an easy plant, much easier than glosso and HC. Soon everyone will start selling it


im going to give it a try in my low tech tank  :Very Happy:

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## JasonChan

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421408905.305606.jpg
Tried the DSM with monte carlo in a small tank 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421408968.488441.jpg
After like nearly a month


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## JasonChan

Btw gonna pull out the other plants probably got mixed inside lol


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## sixhunter

> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421408905.305606.jpg
> Tried the DSM with monte carlo in a small tank 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421408968.488441.jpg
> After like nearly a month
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


wow looking great bro !! these are really prolific growers that is not too demanding  :Very Happy:

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## limz_777

good foreground plant imho , just weird why it was discovered so late

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## fookie

Hi,

Sorry to hijack this thread.. I am considering between Ah Pek plant Monte Carlo for my 1ft high tech tank. Which would be a better fit? How tall does Ah Pek plant grow to?


thank you

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry to hijack this thread.. I am considering between Ah Pek plant Monte Carlo for my 1ft high tech tank. Which would be a better fit? How tall does Ah Pek plant grow to?
> 
> 
> thank you


Both are suitable and wouldn't grow tall (at least initially), as they have a natural creeping growth pattern... though if you don't trim them regularly they will still eventually grow over each other in layers and result in the bottom layers getting shaded and melting.

Layout-wise, monte carlo would probably look more "in scale" in smaller tanks as its leaves are smaller, compared to ah pek plant (elatine tiandra) which have larger leaves.

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## Allan Asis

It's a great carpet plant  :Smile: 
You can get it cheap on local LFS for 3$ per pot or from bros occasionally selling trimmings in AQ marketplace.

My experience with it:
1. grows fast
2. requires a lot of CO2. If not enough CO2, you will start to see some leaves turning black and eventually grow BBA so just need to push more CO2.
3. can grow at higher temp, mine still grows well at 32C or probably even higher without a problem.
4. still do well when it creeps under taller plants so as shadow said, it's fine when not getting a lot of light.
5. probably just like HC, best to use powder type soil to plant it. otherwise you will see a lot of uprooting until they are able to stabilize their roots.

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## fookie

Thank you everyone

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## adrielfo

i cannot seem to plant my monte carlo on my sand now its floating around

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## Urban Aquaria

> i cannot seem to plant my monte carlo on my sand now its floating around


Separate the MC into individual longer strands (at least 4-5 leaf nodes), then plant it 3-4 leaf nodes deep into the sand, leave only the top 1-2 leaf nodes above the substrate. That will keep them securely planted.

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## Mookie

Hope everyone is still enjoying their MC, I finally rescaped my tank after a year haha the MC was neglected and had BBA. But it was still a joy and an easy carpet plant.

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## smirnon

woohoo MC  :Well done: 
image1.JPG

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## Maru

> woohoo MC 
> image1.JPG


Very nice n dense!

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## jacklimyap

Just started my 3ft tank using MC as foreground carpet 4 days ago. .still cycling my tank..hopefully it will turn out great

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## jacklimyap

First attempt with mc

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## smirnon

> First attempt with mc


Good luck!! Simple and nice

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## rakurime

i'm contemplating to try out too!!

MC here i come

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## ZIr

Same here. Just discovered mc and was amazed by the results as I was a newbie and was expecting issues.

First Day when I just planted, it looked very bare but it was really back breaking work and I was just too tired to plant anymore.



To my pleasant surprise, the ground started filling up slowly by itself and by week 2, the foreground looked like this.



Today (3 weeks and a few days later) it's much denser. I'll try upload if I have a chance.

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## Donut the Donkey

> Same here. Just discovered mc and was amazed by the results as I was a newbie and was expecting issues.
> 
> First Day when I just planted, it looked very bare but it was really back breaking work and I was just too tired to plant anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> To my pleasant surprise, the ground started filling up slowly by itself and by week 2, the foreground looked like this.
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice tank, HBK16! The MC is coming along nicely.

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## ZIr

> Very nice tank, HBK16! The MC is coming along nicely.


Thanks Bro. It grew an inch thick and I've since trimmed it only to be presented with a brownish carpet now instead of the previous lush green carpet I had  :Crying: . I guess this is the brownish undergrowth that didn't get enough light exposure. Now waiting for new growth. Hope it'll become green again.

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## Maru

Mine still look like your initial pic after 3mths  :Sad: . Considering uprooting them to plant hairgrass instead haiz

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## Shadow

If until 3 months still not growing much, there might be something wrong with your setup  :Opps: .

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## Maru

Mine is low tech setup, while my japanese hairgrass grow until sibei messy, the MC still not much difference, still the one patch here and there  :Sad: 

The Hairgrass even sprouting runners to half my tank length (intiially planted on one side)

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## Dscheng

> Thanks Bro. It grew an inch thick and I've since trimmed it only to be presented with a brownish carpet now instead of the previous lush green carpet I had . I guess this is the brownish undergrowth that didn't get enough light exposure. Now waiting for new growth. Hope it'll become green again.


Wa HBK that is very nice MC growth ! Any Co2 use?

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## ZIr

> Wa HBK that is very nice MC growth ! Any Co2 use?


Thanks for your compliment bro. Yes using CO2 injection at 1.5bps. I might tear up the whole carpet though. The leaves lately kept shedding after I heavily trimmed them. It's driving me nuts.  :Exasperated:

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## Cmlee

> Mine is low tech setup, while my japanese hairgrass grow until sibei messy, the MC still not much difference, still the one patch here and there 
> 
> The Hairgrass even sprouting runners to half my tank length (intiially planted on one side)


Any updates on your mc? I have started on low tank tank too

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## algine_seis

No luck here spreading my MC. Its been more than 6mos and grows really sloooowww lols. While some of its tank mates platns grows well.

After


Before

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## Shrimplicity

Hi all! Got some problems with my monte carlo, the old leaves all melt including the stem, leaving only the new leaves which are stunted. However, other plants (hairgrass, myriophyllum) are doing well! Help please

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## lokelim

Probably lack of co2. Although it's an easy plant but it still needs sufficient lighting n co2 to carpet well.

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## waynekoh

Hi, mine seemd to melt when i added water. Wit iy still grow up?

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## waynekoh

Here is the pic that i failed to upload last night. Melted brown in foreground after i added water. Any chamce they will still grow or i should go buy more that are already submerge in water? I start to pump CO2 after it melted slightly. Canister type, twice a day.

IMG_20161009_203434-1.jpg

IMG_20161009_203608.jpg

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## lokelim

not enuff Co2 and lighting

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## Urban Aquaria

> Here is the pic that i failed to upload last night. Melted brown in foreground after i added water. Any chamce they will still grow or i should go buy more that are already submerge in water? I start to pump CO2 after it melted slightly. Canister type, twice a day.
> 
> IMG_20161009_203434-1.jpg
> 
> IMG_20161009_203608.jpg


If the MC were sourced in emersed form from LFS, then it's quite normal that they may melt a bit when initially planted submerged into a tank. It's the usual effects of transition.

Just trim and remove the melting parts, eventually the healthy parts that remain will adapt, establish roots and resume growing new submerged leaves.

Buying and planting more MC that is already in submerged form would be good, they will usually adapt faster and help to fill up the carpet density quicker.

Btw, those disposable spray can type Co2 systems don't generate much effect due to their inherent inefficiencies, so if you really want to improve the plant growth, its better to use proper Co2 systems and/or liquid carbon supplementation.

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## PKB

Your lights seems dim. And is your lightings and CO2 hours?




> Here is the pic that i failed to upload last night. Melted brown in foreground after i added water. Any chamce they will still grow or i should go buy more that are already submerge in water? I start to pump CO2 after it melted slightly. Canister type, twice a day.

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## waynekoh

Thanks for your advice! Will go get a excel. Also i am looking at the other fertilizer. Too many to choose. Any recommendations for a all in 1 that i can get as well?

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## waynekoh

Hi, shine 6 am to 6 pm dymax NX 5 light. 6pm to 10 pm aqua zone 7W light.
CO2 canister type spray into submerged diffuser chamber at 6am and 8pm, twice daily.

Aqua zone light

IMG-20161003-WA0009.jpg

Dymax NX5 light

IMG-20161007-WA0004.jpg

My tank is 35 x 22 x 21 cm

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