# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  My Tank Journal

## Rupert

*Lighting suggestions for my new tank set up*  

Next week I am going to plant out my tank, and I have some lighting questions. I have some dosing questions as well but after reading the last 20 pages of the Planted Tanks: Fertilisation and Algae forum I need to consolidate my thoughts.

Tank Dimensions: 122cm (L) x 61cm (W) x 76cm (H) 
Effective Water volume: 425 litres
Type of Lighting: MH & FL [Dymax Hi-Lux]
Lighting Intensity: 360 Watts [300 MH, 60 FL @ 6500k]
Type of CO2: Tank with requlator / solenoid, connected to Ph Controller, 
Method of Injection: NA Reactor with three balls
Substrate Used: Lapis Sand [3 x 22 kg] not sure probably 3 inches deep that will be
Base Fert: Dennerle 24kg I havent got the exact details to hand.
Liquid Fertilizers that will be used: LushGro Aqua & LushGro Micro [got one of those nutrition kits with a bit of everything in it]
Tank Temperature: 80F/26.6C using a chiller
Type of Filter: Eheim 2028 canister
Filter media used: Eheim EHFI MENCH

I am going to plant quite heavily with the following: 

*Bioload (Your Fish and Plants).*  
1. Dwarf Hair Grass [Eleocharis acicularis] - 40 pots
2. Blyxa Japonica - 20 pots
3. Rotala Wallichii - 10 pots
4. Aponogeton Longiplumulosus. -5 pots
5. Java Moss [3 tubs to cover some wood]


I have given myself a whole day to plant.

*THE LIGHTING QUESTION.*
I am not sure about the lighting duration, should I gradually raise the lighting duration over the first couple of weeks to allow the plants acclimatize? The intensity from the MH is a bit frightening 

My preference is to have a split lighting period so that I can see the tank in the morning and in the evening when I get home. A Dennerle brochure mentioned that this makes life harder for algae as well, they also mentioned that lighting shorter phases less than 4 hours are not noticed by plants. The tank will also get diffuse light from various windows the closest is 3.5 meters away. The hours I propose are, and this is where I am uncertain:

*No. of Hours your light is on:*  
FL 6:15 am- 10:45 {4.5 hrs} SIESTA 5:30  10:00{4.5} [Total Duration 9hrs]
MH 6.30 am  10:30 {4.0 hrs} SIESTA 5:45 9:45{4.0} [Total Duration 8 hrs]

*Or*  should I just do something simple and leave the FL on from 6:30am to  10:00pm and have the MHs come on in the afternoon say from 4:45 9:45 for 5 hours and build this time up to 8 hours over a few weeks. I am assuming that the 80 watts from the FL will not have any real impact during the day until accompanied by the MHs

Thanks

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## vinz

Hmmm... I tried teh siesta method before, didn't see any difference when I stopped praticing it. I used the siesta method for the same reason as you... to see the tank before adn after work.

If you have both FLs and MH, then I would suggest you do have your FLs on max 12hrs (ok, 14 absolute max) with no siesta. Have your MH come on for about 8 hours in the middle of that period.

If the room with the tank does not get direct sunlight, you can keep the lights off until about 9 or 10am and not worry about the ambient light screwing too much with the plants bio-rhythm or causing algae.

I don't know about you, but I realised in the end, I never have time in the morning to really enjoy the tank before having to rush off to work, so I gave up having the lights on in the morning. I have more time after work to really enjoy the tank. 

If you really want to see the tank so early, I suggest you turn on the lights manually... and turn them off when you leave. 

If you insist on having such long light periods, there's a very good chance your tank will suffer from algae problems.

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## vinz

Oh yah, no need to acclimatise the plants to the lighting. If you plant densely from day one, you should not have too much problems. Remember to raise the fish-load SLOWLY. Take weeks for that.

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## Rupert

Thanks Vincent,

Good no need to acclimatize the plants probably take longer for me to recover from the initial planting.

I too was having my doubts about the siesta and the thought of the intensity of the MH in the morning was a bit daunting for 20 minutes of motivation before leaving for work, so with no direct sunlight near the tank, I will turn on the FLs about 12 noon for 10 hours and the MH for from 1.30  9.30 for 8 hours.

I will be putting some Yamoto shrimp [20] in the tank after the first 4 weeks, and then some guppies after that, then I off to sea view aquarium to get some Cardinals, about two weeks later some shrimp.

Rupert

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## PeterGwee

Drop the pH controller and spend on a good regulator instead. For the reactor, consider DIY one based off Ghazanfar Ghori's design which is cheap and good when run at max flow rate (I'll prefer a dedicated powerhead for it instead of the filter outlet which flow tends to slow down when it clogs..affects efficiency and response time.).

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## Rupert

Thanks Peter,

I have already got all the equipment, scrounged around and managed to get almost all of it second hand, except for the chiller. Even ended up with 2 good regulators JBL and Dennerle Profti 2000. 

The Dennerle pH controller was another second-hand find that will let me go on holidays with a little bit of piece and mind that at least pH will be stable.

Regards Rupert

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## vinz

Your pH won't fluctuate much once you've set the CO2 injection rate correctly, and your tank is stable. If you go holidays, just make sure you have enough CO2 to last till you come back.

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## Rupert

I got my second tank last night as the first was replaced without a second thought by the maker as it had a scratch. Anyway here are some pictures.

I am writing up and almost finished what has become a rather lengthy document on everything I have done from thought - to day 1.

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## Simon

rupert, what stones are you using? granite?

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## benny

I would say that that is indeed a very attractive tank. Looks like you got your ADA style tank after all.

Is that a solid wood, plywood with laminate/veneer or chipboard cabinet?

Cheers,

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## Rupert

Simon, I was on a trip out with family & friends when I found some rocks and probably with embarrassment to those with me, managed to cart home 28.5kg of them. Had sore arms and legs for days.

Benny, The cabinet is veneer on plywood, with a semi matt finish so it looks aged. Took me a long to get everything to fit inside in a manner that was organized. 

Now just have the hard work of planting it out when the plants arrive.

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## BFG

Hold on Rupert! It is advisable not to place your chiller in the cabinet as the exhaust air from the chiller would be reused again hence the chiller need to work extra harder to cool your tank water. Place the chiller beside your tank, somewhere where there's enough air circulation.

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## Rupert

Thanks BFG,

You are quite correct that if the chiller re-consumes the air that it has expelled then it would be quite ineffective. This was a problem that took quite some time and consideration to resolve. But effectively I have positioned the chiller it, so expelled air leaves the cabinet, and have an additional cross cabinet partition if required too ensure expelled air cannot come back to the front of the cabinet.

I will however closely measure effectiveness of this approach incase I have made design errors.

Rupert

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## Rupert

Here are some pictures 1 hour after the tank was planted out and water added. Water is cloudy [probably didnt wash the media enough], equipment is working and back is aching.

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## Simon

see you spend alot of time and effort in planting HG  :Razz: , You can plant more plants initally to help absorb extra nutrients.

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## Nevada

Mr Rupert,

looks like your layout gonna be interesting, looks more like a zen setup to me because of the rocks.do keep us update with the progress if you don't mind. really love to see the tank once they've matured

Edwin

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## Rupert

Hello Nevada,

The Japanese 3 boulder gardening technique called "Sanzon-Iwagumi" http://www.silvertei.com/tourguide/c...5-garden-.html ] and bonsai had some contemplation. Eventually a very loose interpretation of the Iwagumi approach was taken, so the granite rocks were not buried into the substrate, this was an attempt to make them look impressive. The 4th smaller rock was needed for balance. 

Another practical consideration was the desire to have a landscape that had no hidden areas if one move moved around the tank, so one was drawn into the setting. The traditional top down triangular perspective found in "Sanzon-Iwagumi" gardens wasnt entirely followed.

Wood was a bit harder, initially I was looking for large perfect piece, but gave that up and went for several smaller pieces that had plate like limbs that worked together and was capable of getting up into the top third of the tank and could change the character of one end. If you look closely at the proposed front profile [the first pictures in this thread]; the wood forms a profile of a 5th mountain.

Now just need the tank to mature and see if the planning turns into reality.

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## Nevada

thanks for sharing about the "Sanzon-Iwagumi" technique, it's something new for me ... :Smile: 
gd luck for ur tank Mr Rupert

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## Rupert

Hello Nevada,

Have a look at this link as Penjing might interest you

http://www.fukubonsai.com/2a2.html

The Chinese culture is extremely rich and it is said that Penjing had many schools of thought and that Japanese Bonsai originated from or was influenced by Penjing in the process. http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/BigPict...seSchools.html 
http://www.bonsainet.com.au/penjing/penjing.htm 

I like Penjing, it has different mindset boundaries that can redefine what we call normal in a planted tank.

Rupert

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## crandf

This is based on what I've read elsewhere. HG, like moss, shows the best results when it's spread out sparsely and uniformly. Those HG clusters in your tanks looks _very_ thick. I think the new shoots won't be able to spread easily and there's a risk that algae will develop in the middle of each.

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## izzat

Hi Rupert,

What chiller are you using for this tank?
Brand and model.

 :Smile:

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## Rupert

Hello aCe^bOwleRz,

I am using an Arctica 1/5 HP chiller, it seems to do the job well, I made the assumption that it would work 15 min every hour, but in reality it works for a hour or so then switches of for a few, probably on 1/4 of the time.

Hello Crandf,

I am not sure if hair grass likes to be planted more finely, but when dividing the individual pots up, there was logical partition/groups of hair grass that could be separated, with each pot providing about 6-7 pieces. My thinking is that this would also cause less root damage and the plants would establish themselves faster. 

The HG seems now to be thriving, but in regards to algae, I suppose it is a matter of when I get it rather than if then I will have to figure out how to manage it. I hope it isn't in the middle of the HG, but I that is where the Yamoto will have to go to work if it is.

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## izzat

Thanks Rupert.

 :Well done:  for the investment in that chiller  :Smile:

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## mozesyap

Nice! I like your setup. I am thinking of getting the Artica chiller also, where did you get yours?

My only concern is the heat that the chiller produce... Don't want my living room to be a sauna when I come home from work, so you got any problem yet with the heat from the chiller?

Anyway your setup will be added as one of my model setup  :Evil:  
.. when I get my tank.........

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## Rupert

Hello Mozesyap

I got mine via Biotope [BLK2 Jalan Bukit Merah]. Yes the heat coming out when it is on can be quite impressive. Even now I am reluctant to talk about the price, but with intense MH lighting, persistent hot weather the second-hand market was empty, I had no real choice but to buy.

It isnt noisy but the units are rather large and putting one inside a cabinet takes some partitions & planning. I made enough mistakes/near misses that I have written up the whole exercise, 15 pages so far. I will post this shortly

Rupert

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## Rupert

Well the tank seems to be going ok, the Wallichii is growing rapidly, really quite surprising how quickly it has transformed. I have been dosing every 2nd day LushGro micro [2 mls] and macros [20 mls], except today when after testing nitrates, there was no real observable change. I went though my checklist and realized that I hadnt dosed any PO4. Have added hopefully 1/10 of a tsp or 1 ppm of PO4, that should help the uptake of nutrients.

Hair grass has grown as well.
Japonica since I planted that first, it suffered a bit. The tips have dissolved, probably got too warm during the plant out. New shoots can be seen.
I still have very cloudy water. I initially thought it was because I didnt clean the media properly, but now think it is some form of alga, can see forming it on the glass. So will leave it.

My only real concern is not that It is that my pH just sits as 6.5 / 6.6. I have added enough Sodium Bicarbonate to bring KH from an unreadable low to about 4 and added some coral chips to the filter, after dosing pH goes to 6.7 or higher but always come back to a stable 6.5.

Anyway here are the pictures of the Wallichii on the 2nd day, 4th & 6th days

New edit - just added the 9th Day Picture

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## crandf

All plants are growing well, good for you then  :Smile:  , hope the algae won't be too bad, I'm looking forward to seeing your tank in its full glory.  :Jump for joy:

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## |squee|

That should be good news, the Wallichi will be sucking up all those extra nutrients won't it?

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## Rupert

The Wallichii seems to be filling out nicely, with the new branches showing good colour and density of growth is good. Have noticed that the older stems are still greenish in colour, so it might take some time get uniformity red/pink colour to develop. 

Have been dosing micros regularly and macros today for the first time since day 4. The nitrates have been high for quite a while, so pleased to seem them come down. PO4 has been added regularly as well.

Water is still cloudy, annoying so, with algae appearing on the glass. I will trim the hair grass tomorrow to promote growth, tackle the algae and do a 50 % water change. The water has a greenish tinge to it as well... but just concentrating on plant growth. Thinking [dreaming] about getting a Diatom filter. 

So I have survived 
 Attack of the worm [planarian -a type of flatworm] there was only one and I killed it.
 Attack by thousands of tiny little 1mm white worms gone within 24 hours of adding 4 guppies
 Attach of the snails looked like a loosing battle but have observed them, strategised on their demise, but during my observations have noticed that they clean hair grass one blade at a time. The snails seem interesting, so they are staying as friends rather than foe.
 Yamoto mortality rate 1 a day for the first 4 days, but now they seem happy. Reason behind the deaths seemed uncertain, first thought it was nitrates, then ammonia,  changed my CO2 from 3bps to 2bps as my external reactor was expelling bubbles. Well the next day by accident I saw for the first time some normal behaviour and no deaths! My hypothesis, it was not CO2 or the magnitude of the pH fluctuation, rather the temporal duration in which the fluctuations occurred was too short, thereby stressing the shrimp.
 Java Moss is growing well., Aponogeton Longiplumulosus growing well. Japonica Blyxa got too warm during planting & melted, but is coming back.

Next steps
 Trim hair grass,
 Get guppies. Big debate at home at present on the sort of guppies. I want one strain, known history. My daughter wants a variety, a mixture getting the feeling that I am loosing the battle all ready.
 Add 10 more yamoto
 Get some cherry shrimp in 3 or so weeks
 solve cloudy water problem
 learn to take decent photos


Anyway I will add the Wallichii pictures here as it develops further

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## mercurial

Your fertilization regime is somewhat of an overkill given the amt of plants you got there.Think you shld put in some fast growing plants to outcompete with algae and do so soon b4 they take over your tank. Watersprite, hornwort shld do the job. Can just leave them floating around so you dont have to uproot any plants. Green water is a bad sign, esp at this stage. I personally won't go with EI at this stage of cycling cos big water changes wldnt' do your bio filter any good. (even though planted tanks may not have this issue). Yamatoes will only survive in an established tank (fr what i gather in my limited experience).

Did you wash the lapis sand thoroughly b4 you put it in? It cld b the source of your problems. Carefully fill the water and u shldnt have such an issue.

You shldnt add livestock till 2 weeks after set-up then slowly add your algae crew after.

It's a really nice setup, cant wait to c it when the plants have grown out  :Wink: 

this is jus some of my observations & recommendations, hope you dont mind..

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## Rupert

> this is jus some of my observations & recommendations, hope you dont mind..


Thanks Mercurial, don't mind at all...

The growth of the plants has been quite impressive already with the Wallachii living up to its reputation of being a fast grower. Today when I trimmed the Hair Grass I noticed how dense the Wallachii had become, so some thinning will be required before long. The rest have a medium growth characteristic as defined by Tropica, except for the Java Moss. Actually one of my concerns was ensuring that there was no limiting nutrients. More it seems is much, much better than less. 

I have had many days to consider the cloudy water, I am now quite sure it isnt the lapis sand, or as a result the filter media. There is a slight green tinge and not knowing anyone with a diatom filter or UV Sterilizer to borrow or being prepared to buy one, I ignore the cloudy water and focus on plant growth. It will either go away as the tank matures and I will be happy or something worse could come along. What I like about Tom Barrs approach is not to tinker around with too many variables, so that that cause and effect are easily seen, so in one or two weeks I might actually reduce my MH duration by 45 mins. 45 minutes representing approximately 10% of the current 7 hour photo period.

I did put the Yamoto's in a bit early, but as I had some "Shrimp Shit Water" from Japan to seed the bacteria process on day 1; I thought it would be ok? They were dieing 1 each day, it wasn't until I changed my CO2 bps from 3 to 2 that the situation completely changed. Now after 5 Yamoto deaths over 4 days, with one dieing of stress getting them, they now seem very happy. 

To solve this problem was quite important for me. The [My] check list is in order of attention:
1.	Lights [ok], 
2.	CO2 [ok], 
3.	NO3 [ok], 
4.	K[probably ok?], 
5.	PO4 [ok]. 
6.	Water flow [ok].

I incorrectly assumed that my CO2 was ok and it wasnt. I had changed from a planted tank to a planted tank with critters and didnt go back and reevaluate the entire checklist. This is what I like about Tom Barrs EI approach, it removes some of the variables and describes a very sensible approach and in itself avoids complexity. I use to be an avid gardener and with any guidelines the follower must be prepared to deviate when they think it is required.

Thanks for you comments and will post some pictures of the tank as it matures and as my photo taking skills improve.

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## mercurial

Don't get me wrong - I'm not doubting Mr Barr's EI ;p It's just that i think it is in conflict with the cycling process - where water changes are kept to a minimal to maximise bacteria colonisation. But then again Walstad states that planted tanks don't have to go thru the usual process of cycling  :Knockout:  

Your 300w of mh may be a potential cause of algae so do be careful there- i think you have too much light & the hours seem quite long - the emergence green water may be an indicator of this- so do watch out! As i mentioned in the earlier post do get some fast growers in there. it's important.

CO2 - measure kh and ph to find out the lvl of co2/ppm - it's more accurate rather than going by bps. 20-30ppm is usually the ideal range. (sorry if i'm assuming you don't already know this)

Hope your trimming goes ok cos for me I always screw up my stem plants after trimming, heh.. But I'm sure you'd b fine since you have extensive experience in gardening.

"shrimp shit water?" haha... yamatoes are v sensitive critters so just b mentally (and financially ;p) prepared to lose some along the way. They have very minimal waste so cycling may take quite long. 

looking forward to your next update  :Grin:

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## Rupert

I am not sure if EI is in conflict or in harmony with the cycling process. I would have thought the main objective of cycling was preparation for the addition of fish and other critters. A totally planted tank would not need to be cycled and the EI philosophy could be followed immediately, however I stand to be corrected on this.

The point I was attempting to make was that in a system, if you tinker with too many variables you cannot easily differentiate between cause [action] and effect [outcome] with any degree of confidence especially if there is temporal bridge between the two and the observable change is gradual. 

The trimming of the Hair Grass wasnt difficult, just took a bit of time with a pair of good scissors. I have yet to attack the Wallichii, as it is my fastest grower and didnt want to cut too much vegetation and create problems. Soft stem plants are often problematic in the garden, hard to trim and get good growth back, better of replanting. Replanting is something I want to avoid, so my emerging thinking is to thin first, keep the thinned stems and see how these grow. If thinning doesnt give the results I desire, then have a go at trimming the Wallichii at the back of the tank to see how it recovers. Then replant if required, but this is a bit drastic.

For CO2 I let the pH controller manage this [ph 6.6, kH 3-4,]. CO2 bps only became a consideration when the bubbles were noticed to be coming out of the reactor. There was the observed side effect that the shrimp mortality dropped immediately from 1 a day to now 0 for the last 5 days. 

Just added another 10 Yamoto & 17 Guppies [snakeskin -12 male, 5 female]. The yamoto have been hard a work, it is a pleasure to watch them. The guppies school together, but cannot get a photo worthwhile posting at the moment.

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## andrewtyr

Actually the thing about Japonica is that they take deep rootings and in future, if you want to remove them, it will really mess up everything unless, you are doing a total rescape. I said this based on a friends' experience.

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## wycklk

Right. And also Japonica needs strong light and CO2 to grow well.



> Actually the thing about Japonica is that they take deep rootings and in future, if you want to remove them, it will really mess up everything unless, you are doing a total rescape. I said this based on a friends' experience.

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## Rupert

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for the tip on the Japonica. I was actually thinking of the Wallichii as the first plant to have its floor space reduced. It is growing like a weed, some of it has grown nearly 20 cm in two weeks an amazing plant, but where I wanted some depth it just keeps on expanding up & out great fast grower.

Rupert

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## vinz

Rupert,

The algae that is green water and the algae that grows on your glass are different. Spot or dust algae on the glass is usually indicative of low PO4. Green water or bacteria bloom usually indicative of an immature filter.

I've found that frequent massive water changes does not really help in cases of cloudy water as the chlorine in the water changes tend to damage the bacteria colony in the filter, allowing the green water to outcompete them. I would suggest you use an anti-chlorine/chlormine solution initially to handle the chlorine/chloramine. Avoid changing the water too often... maybe once in 3 days or more. 

Do a 3 day blackout to get rid of the green water. Search for blackout method by Tom Barr... his recommendations for that are in AQ somewhere. I know Simon posted it in AQ too. And remember to use anti-chlorine/chloramine. Getting some temporary fast floating plants will help too.

In general, most of us do not add much fauna till the 2nd or so week.

I think you should stop trimming the hair grass. By cutting them, you are injuring them and that slows down their growth a little. Yes, it forces them to spread but this is not the time to do it. Moreover, some injured leaves die, rot and will contribute ammonia/ammonium to the water. The green water will thrive on these, and the plants/filter won't help because the green water is right there grabbing the stuff, while the plants/filter bacteria are waiting for the water to flow by.

(Amano usually trims all his plants in one go... removing as much as 50% or more of plant mass. He will then reduce the fertilisers doses for folowing 2 weeks to compensate for the drop in plant uptake due to lost of mass and injury. And also include fertilisers that promote healing and growth of young shoots.)

The most trouble-free initial period for my tanks has always been for tanks that I've planted and left alone for 2 or more weeks. I.e. no water change, no fishes, no trimming, nothing.

Fix the green water first... the glass algae can wait.

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## vinz

Oh, I've grown B. japonica in 30+ degrees water... so warmth is not an issue. Seems more like a fert problem in most cases. I've seen an entire tank of B. japonica melt in 3 days due from of CO2 in a high light tank, yet I've grown them (stunted but lush green) in a non CO2, unfertilised (except JBL aquabasis) low maintenance tank.

B. japonica is an enigma. Some hobbyist (including myself) have never had problems growing them, while others can never get them to survive in their tanks despite the health of the other plants. So far, no one has really figured out why. There are others who have successfully grown them after many failures... usually after getting plantlets from hobbyists with established populations of the plant.

For one of my friends, it was root fertilisers (e.g. root monster) that saved them.

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## PeterGwee

Failing to plant densely is the whole problem here imo/ime. Water changes have got nothing to play with the green water and it does help preventing that as well (Removes the ammonia buildup.). Filters get established slower in planted tanks as the plants always get a crack at the main food source first. Doing the EI method takes out the lack of nutrients issue and unless you use ADA aquasoil or any peat based substrate, GH is seldom an issue but can be easily taken care of with some dosing at water changes (I don't like coral chips for a planted tank as a moving KH can cause havoc to CO2) with Seachem Equilibrium or mixture of CaCL/MgSO4. All that is left is basically CO2 issue if the plant mass thing is good. Your test kit might say it is good but plants/algae are better indicators.

Blyxa japonica...mechanical damages during the initial planting can cause it to melt but if the conditions are good, it should come back strongly.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## andrewtyr

Hi Rupert,

You know, your picture really got me reminiencing the good o' guppies again. After all the trying of planted community fish like killies, boraras, platies, etc, I am now back thinking about our lovely labyrinth fish. 

Do keep us posted on the guppy conditions.  :Grin:

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## Rupert

Thanks Peter & Vinz... I don't think that I have green water, the green tinge came from the algae on the class, which is good... but need to consider my actions otherwise it will get it. I am traveling at present so will digest the other information over the next day or so.

The Japonica, seems to be bouncing back, I must have mishandled it in some manner.

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## Rupert

The MHs are great, but the speed of developments and plant growth can be quite amazing, after 17 days the wallichii had grown taller by 20 CM and expanded with new branch so much so, that the original plant-out shape is an old memory. The Angopton after 17 days was already touching the water surface a good 30cm growth for some of the leaves. Hair grass has grown up, but not out and Java Moss has developed rich green carpet of shoots. The consideration now is how to stabilise the growth, keep the colours.. add the biolife and maintain in a predictable environment. 

I dont think that I have green water, it is not noticeable enough to say yes, but the water is smokey, with a greenish tinge, but since I am not in the country there is little I can to do. This is one of the challenges of having an occupation that requires some travel. My algae on the glass, an annoyance, but I do not worry about itI did up the P04, but have no idea of what are the uptake levels.. I did my 2nd water change [40%] in 17 days, always adding anto chloramines to the water, going to weekly 10% changes from here on in. However it would not surprise me that the bacteria has not developed as you stated and I am prolonging the process. 

I did an ammonia test as I thought the melting japonica would contribute to this, but it was zero. The japonica is bouncing back, I thought that I cooked it during planting, but thanks to Peter I can rule this out, maybe it was the shock of transition from farm to tank? When I last saw it, the plants were showing many new shoots. I suspect that it is like some of my old garden plants, they would choose death when moved. 

I must say I regreted buying the NH4 test kit, but I felt sorry for the 4 shrimp that I calculated I had lost to something which turned out to be CO2 and consequential temporal speed of the pH fluctuations

I wonder if trimming the hair grass was premature, guess I will find out the shrimp and guppies I am told are happy. I actually made the comparison with lawn mowing and trimming the Hair Grass, in that it is not so much what you trim, what is important is to remove all the cut bits so no decomposition can occur. I did want to trim the wallichi, but didnt I do not know the plant well enough yet. My observations of Wallichi is that is absorbs via stems/leaves maybe more so than the roots, which it did have when I got it. This plant it grew the instant it touched the water and was given a highlight. I reduced my dosing of macros after the hair cut as a consideration by 50%, but uped the micros, but have no basis for this remote decision, it just seemed right.

Anyway thanks Vinz and Peter, the next 3 weeks will probably show if I am ok or in deep algae

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## Rupert

*Custom and Planted Tank Setup  My Journey*

I have documented my experiences, challenges and approach to getting a custom tank and setting it up. I started with a blank slate, an open mind and decided to document the process, considerations in a manner I hope the next new enthusiast embarking on the same journey would benefit from. 

Here is the link, there are quite a few pages & pictures:
http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php...warticle&id=25

In this link I have only documented up to the point that the tank was planted-out and first filled or Day 0. But it covers the list below.

1.	The end game  what do you want?
2.	Size & Type of tank
3.	The Aquascape  Rocks & Wood *[PART II]*
4.	The Aquascape  Layout and plant selection
5.	Planting & Substrate *[PART III]*
6.	Cabinet design *[PART IV]*
7.	Tank arrival day
8.	Lighting
9.	Power, timers and plugs *[PART V]*
10.	Chiller
11.	Filtration
12.	Water Changes
13.	Dosing / Fertilisation
14.	CO2,
15.	The Forums - Patience & Maintenance
16.	LFS Support
17.	Appendices *[PART VI]*
18.	Day 0 completed *[PART VII]*

There are parts were I covered the topic lightly and am happy to clarify / expand on them where I can. I will probably follow up this Day 0 piece and document day 1 to day 30 as well.

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## ranmasatome

Woa....very detailed man!! Great Job.. :Smile:

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## Goondoo

> Woa....very detailed man!! Great Job..


Yup, excellent article....
Any recent pictures of your tank?

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## Rupert

Here is my tank at 29 days old. I have almost finished documenting the trials & tribulations of the first 30 days... some ups and downs and will post the link when complete. 

The Wallichii has exceeded expectations and grows like a weed, next week I expect it to have reached the water surface. Guppies have reproduced many times, the Yamotos are happy. The Cherry Shrimp are red, and I hope they breed like the guppies.

The smokey / chalky/ cloudy/ Grey haze water still exists. This is annoying, but havent got a solution except patience and wait for the filter to mature. 

Have had dust algae, green spot algae, BGA, hair algae but everything seems to be under control at the time of writing this!

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## Rupert

The Cherry Shrimp are happy, now just waiting for them to breed as the 30 I have now can hardly be seen in the tank.

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## Rupert

As promised here is the follow on piece describing my first 30 days. Rather than take a day by day approach, I thought I would go by significant events or activities that stood out, fill in some of the gaps along the way and my thinking at the time.

Here is the link, there are quite a few pages & pictures:
*Part 1* http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php...warticle&id=35
1 Overview slide of the first 30 Days 
2 Attack of the worms
3 Attack of the Snails
4 Changes in approach
5 Cloudy water
6 Dosing Observations
*Part 2* http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php...warticle&id=36
7 Cabinet & Tank
8 Landscape
9 Chiller
10 Planting
11 Changing water,
12 Glass Cleaning*Part 3* http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php...warticle&id=37
13 Algae count
14 Testing & Test kits
15 pH Controller
16 CO2
17 Check List*Part 4* http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php...warticle&id=38
18 Guppies
19 Shrimp
20 Lighting
21 Maintenance
*Part 5* http://www.shrimpnow.com/modules.php...warticle&id=39
22 Power& water bill
23 Things that caused extra work.
24 Mistakes or near misses and good luck
25 Forum usage. 
26 Good ideas, Unfinished work, next steps
27 Day 1 versus Day 30

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## Simon

I fear with those R. wallichii, you might find the center not getting enough light and starts rotting. So my advise is try to reduce the size or find a way to get light penetration thru

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## Rupert

Hello Simon,

You are absolute right; I have already begun the process of thinning out the Wallichii so that light can penetrate from behind and so it does not crowd out the Aponogeton Longiplumulosus. I will start trimming the front this weekend to give it better form, as at present it looks like an erupting volcano!

The Aponogeton Longiplumulosus has leaves must be close to a metre long. Which is a bit longer than the 60 cm I was expecting.

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## Simon

why don't you consider moving the A. longiplumulosus away?

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## Rupert

Hello Simon

I should have used the plural for A. Longiplumulosus, but I cant really move them as I have quite a few, the effect that I was looking for was a curtain of leaves, which has yet to develop.

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## wynx

> Here is my tank at 29 days old. I have almost finished documenting the trials & tribulations of the first 30 days... some ups and downs and will post the link when complete. 
> 
> The Wallichii has exceeded expectations and grows like a weed, next week I expect it to have reached the water surface. Guppies have reproduced many times, the Yamotos are happy. The Cherry Shrimp are red, and I hope they breed like the guppies.
> 
> The smokey / chalky/ cloudy/ Grey haze water still exists. This is annoying, but havent got a solution except patience and wait for the filter to mature. 
> 
> Have had dust algae, green spot algae, BGA, hair algae but everything seems to be under control at the time of writing this!



Congrats...Time to work on the scaping. Wynx's here..I kinda feel your wallachi is not doing the tank justice...too centralise...try to get to the 'golden center'. It will help...How about adding more plants to your tank? Make it lush and thick manz..


Juz my 2 cents.

 :Laughing:

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## vinz

Hey, thanks for recording your experience down. It'll help a lot of people to come.

Ok, the wallichi just bugs me... but to be fair, your scape has not grown in yet.
About using the A. longiplumulosus as a "curtain"... I don't think they suit that role, their leaves are just too stiff.

A similar but less ridgid/more flowy plant, the A. crispus might be a better choice. Other alternatives are:
- Cypherus helferi
- Valisneria sp.
- Blyxa auberti

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## Rupert

Thanks Wynx & Vinz,

The edge of the big rock is close to the golden ratio, with the R. Wallichii supposed to peek from behind both sides of this rock and sit low. But not everything goes to plan. I knew that Wallichii was a quick grower, but now it deforms what was originally intended. I thought the plant would reach a maximum of 30 cm, anyway it will give me some good trimming practice until everything else matures. 

Vinz your suggestion of Blyxa auberti, is a good one as that was on my list to use, but got distracted, now I plan to be patient and let the melted Blyxa Japonica slowly return, tame the Wallichii, let the A. Longiplumulosus flower and see what I have got in a couple of months.

I recorded my experience as I hoped it would help others, be a bit of an experience accelerator for those like me are new to the hobby. I plan to post the PDF files here once I can get the file size down.

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## Rupert

*Useful Spreadsheet*

I have managed to trim down the spreadsheet I use and zipped it so it just squeezed inside the 97k upload limitation. I have cut and pasted from the PUB web site the water characteristics, link attached in the tab, used formula found on AQ.

The LushGro tab came from this site, from a forum member; his credits are in the properties box. I made some changes to suit my needs and sure he/she wouldnt mind it being posited again as it is a real gem if you are a LushGro user.

I have left inside it my spreadsheet for calculating CO2 levels, this is broken down to 2 decimal places because I have pH controller that gives me 2 place decimal readings Here is the mathematical formula the CO2 charts are based on, I used it more to double check the information found on the internet. 

	CO2 (in PPM) = 3 * KH * 10^(7-pH) where KH is Carbonate Hardness in degrees.
	Example 3 * 4 KH * 10^(7-6.6) = 30.14

The Colour shades [Red/Green/Blue] came from Chuck Cadd calculator, I not sure if this is an infringement of copyright, but no infringement intended. Forum Moderator it you think it is then remove the post. I might have to remove the file anyway as I have run out of allotted upload space.

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## Rupert

I couldnt resist taking some pictures as after about 5 weeks of hiding my two Wood shrimp have lost some of their shyness and venture out during the day to spread their fans.

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## Rupert

Finally got my glass Lillie pipes to put in my tank, I like the ADA emphasis on mechanical cleanliness, but found that their Lillie pipes were too expensive. However after all the effort of finding a glass blower it probably isnt, providing the ADA designs fit your requirements. 


Glass blowers can produce amazing customized equipment, but there are few economies of scale to be had. I have searched high and low to find an injection mould manufacturer to make transparent Lillie pipes but to know avail, so I you know someone, just PM me. My thinking here is that if I like transparent piping others would as well?

I originally thought that it would be rather easy to dispense with the green piping in and around my set-up. However I was wrong, the transparent hosing that I have seen is not of the same elasticity/quality as the green Eheim hoses. So the search continues

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## Robert

Hi Rupert,
these lillie pipes are really nice but how do you keep them clean? My pipes get coated by bacteria all the time and to disconnect them to clean them would be a lot of work (which has to be done every week or so I guess). So are there any brushes or other things you can use to clean them easily, best would be without disconnecting them?

Best regards

Robert

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## Rupert

Hello Robert,

Good questions, you have to disconnect, but you can make the process easier, so I have more than one set of Lillie pipes and hoses [glass & Plastic]. I have been using Eheim connectors [picture] which enable me to simply turn off the canister filter, turn off the Eheim taps and replace. The replacement hose if filled up with water first so that I do not need to prime and then just turn on the canister filter again.


The Lillie pipes are easy to clean; the biggest problem is cleaning the hoses as I have struggled to find a long pipe/hose bush and currently using the following technique of squashing the pipe against the edge of the sink while drawing the hose through the compressed bit. This is more effort than it should be, but until I can find a long pipe cleaner I have no choice.

One design consideration in getting my own Lillie pipes made was to be able to have the inlets lower in the water than most. This enables me to be able to do a 20% water change without turning off the filters. I have two canister filters, so tend to alternately clean pipes, when I feel inclined to do so.

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## Rupert

Found some shrimp that I liked the look of, they were sort of an impulse purchase to complement the ones that I have now...

I am not exactly sure of the name as I thought they were Mosquito Shrimp, [Caridina gracilirostris de Man, 1892], but have been corrected in that they are a variation of Mosquito Shrimp called red-rhinos.

Anyway there are really transparent and couldnt help taking a picture of one on a glass Lillie pipe.

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## catus36

Hi Rupert,

If you'r having difficulties in cleaning the filter hoses,
there a long and springy brush available in LFS, eg:c328 for a reasonable price.

Those similar type of brush is can also be bought at Queenways shopping centre
inside those camping bags shops that sell waterbags, eg;camelbak
I bought one of those for $18 some yrs back to clean my waterbag tubes. 

Cheers

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## StanChung

> Blyxa japonica...mechanical damages during the initial planting can cause it to melt but if the conditions are good, it should come back strongly.
> 
> Regards
> Peter Gwee


blyxa is indeed an enigma. i've seen lfs 88 in kl plant it till it's like a ball! [1 ft diameter and height!!!] :Shocked:  

i surmise one of the causes of loss in vitality is something to do with certain plants competing for same nutrients causing it to lose it's vitality. :Huh?:  
it is a very fragile plant though not as fragile as blyxa auberti. i've learnt not to rinse with tap water. leaves just melted away... so handling is important as well.

i myself am quite successful with it using base fert and monster root.
another tank without base fert but with monster root don't do as well.

well, one can only learn from trial and error and reading a lot here...  :Wink:  

btw i heard there's another blyxa that's in between japonica and auberti?

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## rocketshrimp

Hi Rupert,
Chance on your post....wow...I am impressed in your attention to details. 
I think you can get ISO 9000:2001 certified. 

For me, I used the "force"...  :Grin:

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## Rupert

Hello *Catus36*, I know Queensway Shopping center so will visit them in the next couple of days. In the meantime I have connect the bottle brush to a broken coat hanger that allows me to clean pipes in a much easier fashon than before.

Hello S*tandoyo*, my Blyxa Japonica bounced back and looks good, but it took a while to feel good about it. Whilst I was in the process of controlling my R Wallichii I have added Blyxa aubertii. I found the Blyxa aubertii hard to plant as it always kept floating up, so added some lead, but after reading your post about sensitivity I should expect it to deteriorate as I quarantined it for 4 days, inspected it thoroughly, rinsed it thoroughly, so expecting it to turn into a mess for quite a while now.

Hello *RocketShrimp*, thanks for the complements, I did ISO along time ago and then went Six Sigma in a big way about 15 years agowhere does time go!. 

One of the Moderators [Vinz] has found a way for me to post two PDF files that consolidate the design and development of a custom tank too day zero and then the first 30 days, Now I am in the middle of writing up the last 60 days of developments and will post them here. In the meantime here is a picture showing both Blyxa Japonica [infront of the big rock] & Blyxa aubertii [behind the big rock]

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## StanChung

sorry 2 sen came a bit late, but plants will find a way to bounce back. it will take time. i love the auberti as it has delicate leaves which waves when gentle current hits. it grows quite tall in my tank. about 15-18 in. 
if you are lucky you will get fresh green leaves. [too much light makes it olive i think?] mine is seasonal, when water gets low[when i'm not around] it turns olive.

i have one pix in link below.
i wish you luck...

btw i think your tank looks fab. will look more so when aubertii spreads and flowers...

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## catus36

> Hi Rupert,
> 
> If you'r having difficulties in cleaning the filter hoses,
> there a long and springy brush available in LFS, eg:c328 for a reasonable price.
> 
> Those similar type of brush is can also be bought at Queenways shopping centre
> inside those camping bags shops that sell waterbags, eg;camelbak
> I bought one of those for $18 some yrs back to clean my waterbag tubes. 
> 
> Cheers


Hi Bro,
I went toC328 today and saw the eheim cleaning brush which might be better and cheaper as compare to the above-mentioned. 
The price is $9 but i think there are different sizes available.
You can check up http://www.eheim.com/ for more details

From the site, 2028 uses product code:4005550 for cleaning brush 
and 4006570 for universal brush.

Hope this helps.

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## Rupert

Here are the download links to get a complete copy of the two documents that describe my experiences, challenges and approach to getting a custom tank and setting it up as a planted tank. Hopefully I have done this in a manner that the next new enthusiast embarking on the same journey can benefit from.

The documents are in PDF format and contain quite a few pictures: 

*Custom and Planted Tank Setup, up to Day 0 [16 pages - 588kb]*
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/extra...p_to_day_0.pdf


*Custom & Planted Tank Set-up, Day 1 - 30 [12 pages - 694kb]*
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/extra...t_day_1-30.pdf


*Custom & Planted Tank Set-up, Day 30 - 90 [7 pages - 231kb]*
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/extra..._day_30-90.pdf

 - Day 30 - Day 90


Here is the last sixty days, I could not get a great picture, the mind & body is willing but the camera is not. However there is a plan in place to get some good pictures over the weekend.

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## Rupert

*Preparing my tank for a picture shoot*

Little did I know that amount of effort required to get that good shot that I would feel proud about. Here is a description of the week’s activities prior to the actual event. I must thank *Benny & Chris [Loupgarou]*  for the final result.

*Saturday inspection by Benny & Chris* 
Benny & Chris came over to do a pre-shoot inspection; the distance in front of tank was ok. At the time I didn’t realize the importance of distance in securing a good picture, the greater the distance the less distortion from the glass and the more rectangular the depth of the picture. At a distance of 20 -25 feet my tank looks great, the front and back glass panels almost look as one, now just need to move some furniture on the night.

After the inspection my go-forward checklist is: 
·	Remove the snails, well as many as I can
·	Clean the tank, and scrape the glass on Thursday, the day before the shoot
·	Remove the ugly fish so they distract from the aquascape 
·	If possible add some more plants to remove the hard transition from sand to black background. Not sure about this as I quite like the hard transition to darkness
·	Remove my white tile behind the wood. This was used to get depth in normal lighting circumstances
·	Get a hair dryer that blows cold air for Friday
·	Thursday clean the glass
·	Thursday night polish the water
·	Friday night one hour before Benny & Chris arrive, I need to remove the Lillie pipes. The shoot could take 5 hours.

Benny notices my pH controller flashing… I guess I should have noticed but thought it was normal. Benny tells me it is a sign that it needs to be recalibrated. Mmmm maybe that is why I am getting more hair algae that usual?

*Sunday* 
Water change, clean the glass as I think it will take a few goes to get it 100% clean, I do notice that there is some debris around my Aponogeton Longiplumulous… some leaves fall off! My tank is 30 inches high and those couple extra inches make all the difference in effort and in visual appeal. Part of the reason that my tank is so high is that I wanted to be like a window into another world or a picture. A 4 x 6 inch picture has almost the same proportions as that tank 30 [H] inches x 48 [L] inches 

The snail hunt has started; I get lots of them, however lots remain. What I saw as friendly snails in the past has now transformed into a desire to eradicate them all. My daughter doesn’t want me to get rid of the big ones so I have to save those!

I decide to read the AGA results of last year to see what the judges say. This is quite interesting in that they are quite insightful. Mr Amano T. comments seem really sharp. I put myself in his position and look at my tank “rocks look like shit… and fish look like shit… too”. I decide that empathy is a trait that I will ignore for a while. I clean the Hair Grass with my toothbrush cleaner, some falls out! Partly because I scraped down the side of the glass below the substrate to make it look better, as one AGA judge recommended. 

*Monday* 
On Monday some of the female guppies are captured but am surprised that the ugly ones really know that I want to catch them so they play hard to get. I have some containers out the back of the apartment, which I can keep them in, with a spare 6-fan unit to keep them cool. In the process I need to decommission my algae tank, which was small plastic aquariums in which I was growing algae to see if I could do an algae scape… well it looked worse than ugly so that had to go, and ironically the stuff that I wanted to grow didn’t!

When cleaning around the A. Longiplumulous … some leave fall off! What’s going on… every time I touch the tank more plants get removed? Panic sets in.

The snail hunt continues, I get lots more of them, but they too seem to be getting smarter in that they disappear into inaccessible places and when my back is turned they have regrouped. A puffer fish is considered, but I cannot imagine a fish choosing snails when there are lots of small tasty cherry shrimp about.

*Tuesday*
Wake up at 2.00 am for a conference call, then do some work, then see that I have the links which are needed to post my article on the first 90 days. I do this then catch some sleep before trying to get up at six am.

I have been told by Chris that some dirt will be dislodged from the pipes, so I remove the source, but expect the skimmer to cause some problems, so replace all of my glass Lillie pipes with cleaner plastic ones with clean hoses. This will make it easier for me to move them on Friday, glass looks good, but it is fragile. 

Still catching guppies. Got almost all of them now except for the males and a couple of small ones.
Didn’t touch the A. Longiplumulous… and more leave fell out! Now feeling really bad. They guys will come on Friday and laugh. The flower that looked so interesting is beginning to tip over into the water making it look odd. 

Every time I now look at the tank I can see some loose java fronds in the tank and hair algae. This cannot be happening I tell myself and try and remove it, but usually with the plant as well. So I decide not to do any more hair algae removal.

I also recalibrated the pH Controller. The lower setting was ok; it was the higher setting that was out. 

*Wednesday* 
The removal of snails is an obsession now; each is hunted down and crushed to the benefit of the guppies. I follow up the snail hunt with a water change, then clean the glass in a very vigorous manner with my wife providing direction, ensuring that get every spot. 4 out of 5 wood shrimp come out to fan, what a good sight.

On the way home from work I visit a department store looking for a hair dryer that blows cold air. It seems to be a hard request, however find one but it is way too expensive and bulky. I decide to look at other shops, there are much cheaper ones, but I will have to pull it apart to disable the heater coil, the task that cannot be that hard I tell myself. 

*Thursday*
Chris comes over and sets up the Diatom Filter, I was under the impression that these devices can be quite tricky to set up, but Chris does it in a couple of minutes. Within hour I am sure that the water is much clearer, but it was near midnight and could have been imagining things.

Warning Warning Warning. Using a diatom filter once is enough to make you want to buy one. The understanding of this warning given by Chris & Benny on the previous Saturday has come too late now; sooner or later I am going to get one.

The snails are still obvious, but for the first time all five wood shrimp are out fanning in one spot.

*Friday* 
I set up my blue barrel with some water in it so that both canister filters can keep circulating water during the shoot. Turning them off for an hour or so might be ok, but since Benny and Chris have said that it could take many hours I need to do something that give us freedom with no time constraints. So one hour before arrival I move the filter pipes over to the barrel. I then turned on the air conditioning as much as possible to keep the tank from over heating.

The new hairdryer had hot air only, so I decide to take it apart and rewire it. Sounded like a good idea at the time, but when I plugged it in, part of it exploded, I was hit in the hand and thigh with a small piece that had enough force to draw blood. I blow the fuses as well! At least the air conditioning is working, as I will need it now. I borrow my wife’s hair dryer, it only blows hot air and will not try to fix this one!

The A. Longiplumulous flower has been move out of the shot, whilst it looks good in a close up photo, it would not from a distance, plus it drops pollen and without the skimmer would foul the water surface with the hair dryer directed towards it. This is probably the only item that I had changed as I wanted of my tank as what it is like rather than what it could be. 



Midnight is approaching it has taken about an hour to get the 8 or so flash units in the right spots. My hood has been turned upside down as in this manner it only overlaps the glass by 5mm allowing the water surface to be seen. The 6 flash units are positioned on top of a plastic grid on the hood and when they go off, you can almost feel the light go though your body. I originally thought that my MH’s would have remained on, but they are not need at all. 

Chris’s photo captures the situation well, with my tank maintenance stool on it side and a ladder support the remaining flash units.




The actually photo shoot doesn’t take long at all, the guppies however are tired and want to sleep, you can see this in that they are going to the water surface or spots in the plants to rest. Of course when the guppies do move they go everywhere… there is not a “schooling” thought in their bodies.

It is about 1.30 am now and Chris & Benny start packing up, I put the Lillie pipes back into the tank and decided to leave the MH lights and the shifting of furniture the until I get up.

So here it is, a day 91 or 92 [if one wants to be very precise] picture of my aquascape. The reason I like it so much as this is how it really looks.

----------


## lorba

Nice tank, rupert.

How about some cryptocoryne wendtii tropica to fill up the center gap?  :Smile:

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## Rupert

Thanks Lorba for the good suggestion.

There is an unintentional gap in the A. Longiplumulous, it is sort of bunched up and the R. Wallichii isn’t cooperating either. These problems I associate with a lack of maturity of the aquascape and my R. Wallichii trimming ability. 

I am not sure if I am I am confusing “itchy hand syndrome” and making some “meaningful changes”, in that when I look at the pictures my eye keep keeps on getting dragged to the right where the Java Moss green wall is too much almost smothering the small rock there.

This is a structural problem. I would like it to be more balanced with the viewer’s eye being drawn and resting in the centre gap where the lapis sand is visible. I like this gap, when I am in front of the tank, the view is slightly different, and the lapis sand rises to create an intentional clearing but for certain the Java Moss is now too thick and needs to be thinned, for example the bottom of triangular hole in the wood is disappearing. 

The Hair Grass also needs to be thicker in spots and thinned in others. 

So I am going to ponder my circumstances… and see if I can combine maintenance, “itchy hand syndrome” & “meaningful changes” into a series of actions that improves the aquascape over the next one month or two.

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## Rupert

*Evolution*

I suppose one should not confuse photogenic with a real-time engaging tank, but the photo is a hard one to look at, I find that after the red circle I look at the yellow triangle then the green rectangle, but not at a whole rather an uneasy jump that is not calming. Again I am not sure if I am I am confusing “itchy hand syndrome” and making some “meaningful changes”, in that when I look at the pictures my eye keep keeps on getting dragged to the right where the Java Moss green wall smothering the small rock there.


There is a structural problem; I would like it to be more balanced with the viewer’s eye being drawn and resting in the centre where the lapis sand is visible. I like this area, when I am in front of the tank, the view is slightly different, and the lapis sand rises to create an intentional clearing but for certain the Java Moss is now too thick and needs to be thinned, for example the bottom of triangular hole in the wood is disappearing. 

The Java Moss had also expanded outwards, but because it does so in a manner that is not really perceptible, it can claim a lot of tank substrate space before you are prepared to act. Java moss is also a plant that traps debris and when one does attack it, particles go everywhere. My shrimp however seem so happy to hide within it fronds, but it needed some control.

I looked at this picture for a few days then Benny sent me a picture with his thoughts of swapping the two rocks around, which sort of prompted me to act as it made obvious unspoken thoughts evident. In addition I wasn’t working the following week, which gave me no excuses. I knew I was going to remove a lot of Java Moss, so where was I going to put it? I had been planning to get a 2nd hand 2-foot tank, where I could put some of my guppies, this tank was now going to get a java moss floor.

The swapping of the rocks I thought would make a difference that the family & I would like, plus the rock footprints were comparable in that a swap would not be difficult. Then the rest of the changes I consider as maintenance effort around the change came easy. 


The Java moss was a bit difficult to change, my approach is to remove the pieces of wood entirely from the tank to avoid too much debris floating around the tank.

From the base piece of wood I removed almost all the moss, as I actually wanted to see the wood. I was surprised in how much substrate had been covered up by it. This forced me to replant some Hair Grass back into the vacated area.

The large wall of moss was a different matter. I know that it needs to be trimmed, but after changing the rock and some moss removal, I decided to defer this to a couple of days later, here is an interim picture, unfortunately not at the same quality as the preceding pictures. You can see that I have taken a couple of steps backwards with the intention of moving several steps forward.




It is hard to see in the picture but the small centre rock will need to be moved closer to the large rock as it needs to be “connected”. At present it sort of sits in the middle, the distance between all the rocks is a little bit too even for comfort. The swapping of the rocks was convenient in that Blyxa Japonica or Hair Grass did not to be moved, but I don’t think that this can be avoided... the rock will be moved soon.

One plant that is not growing much it the R Wallichii, it is not the same after trimming, in fact I would go as far as to say growth has become stunted with such slow growth that I am left with no fast growing plants in the tank, which concerns me.

I can confirm the warnings about diatom filters. Diatom filters should not be used unless there is an intention to purchase as they clear the water so well. After removing some java moss and making the water cloudy with floating debris I would do anything to have one and have a feeling that compulsive gamblers must have when they know the next bet must, absolutely must, positively must, 100% must be the winning bet… just need the diatom filter arrrhhhhhhhh.

So the question is, did “itchy hand syndrome” result in any meaningful changes? I guess time will tell.

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## Rupert

Here is a picture of further refinements, the small centre rock moved just a little bit closer to the larger rock, with a couple plants of Bylxa Japonica moved. Java Moss is such a reliable plant and it is already creeping down to partially cover the exposed end of the small rock in the same manner that it did before in the original position.

The R. Wallichii has been distributed a bit more evenly along the back of the tank and supplemented with the addition of 1 new plant, however I am having problems with this plant in that the pruned [old] plants do not seem to want to grow! This is a problem that I have not been able to solve. This is upsetting the balance of the environment and its lack of growth is probably a source of the fuzz algae attack that I am experiencing now.

New addition being the Red plant, the name of which is unfortunately not known, but with the R. Wallichii being stubborn something else was needed and this looked good.

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## StanChung

hi rupert,

nice lush growth moss.[no sympathies for the walichii as i think it a weed!] :Grin:  

i don't know what to say about comp as this is subjective. the addition of the red plant brings nice focus. 
to me everything is nicely laidout but the original theme itself is becoming more vague with more plants from different regions. the theme you originally had with the stones as the strength of the composition was very nice.

imho find it disturbing that your composition mixes wood and stone. i suggest you fully cover the wood to reduce the wood's attractiveness[?] from taking away the strength of the stones. i'm probably talking rubbish but a quick peek at all the aquascaping journals suggest this... 

you will notice in 99% of great layouts[amano etc] use either wood or stone, never both unlesss they are used as foundation for plants. in your case to tie moss down. 

next on your list is as to how high and wide your plants will spread...this one still gives me headaches... hope yours are easier...

 :Opps:

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## Rupert

Hello Standoyo 

Thanks for the feedback. I actually hadnt noticed compositions not mixing wood and stones before, so will be bit more observant in future. I actually dont mind rocks & wood being together and was not trying to be different, but rather had my own composition expectations that I wanted to meet.

The base of the of the exposed wood will not be so stark once the Hair Grass grows in, and the Java Moss spreads, the swap of the rocks..., subjectivity is hard, the original theme had planning behind it, this one felt comfortable, so I did it. This was the same for the addition of the red plant, although Lorba suggested doing something in this space as well.

You are certainly right about the Wallichii being a weed, but it certainly did not like being trimmed, so will give it some more time to prove itself. The other plants need a couple more months to see how they spread & develop in ways that I probably cannot foresee.

----------


## StanChung

> Hello Standoyo 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I actually hadnt noticed compositions not mixing wood and stones before, so will be bit more observant in future. I actually dont mind rocks & wood being together and was not trying to be different, but rather had my own composition expectations that I wanted to meet.
> 
> The base of the of the exposed wood will not be so stark once the Hair Grass grows in, and the Java Moss spreads, the swap of the rocks..., subjectivity is hard, the original theme had planning behind it, this one felt comfortable, so I did it. This was the same for the addition of the red plant, although Lorba suggested doing something in this space as well.
> 
> You are certainly right about the Wallichii being a weed, but it certainly did not like being trimmed, so will give it some more time to prove itself. The other plants need a couple more months to see how they spread & develop in ways that I probably cannot foresee.


hi rupert,

i thought you'd be offended and thank you for taking it with pinch of salt. doing what pleases you is the most important thing. that takes out subjectivity imho.
sorting the plant list is one of them. :Grin:  
most of use have been there and you will see the 'moss' gang, 'crypt' gang and the 'echinodorus' gang and the anti 'riccia' gang.  :Laughing:   :Laughing:  

this is a really fun time for you and enjoy it...even the pain...  :Grin:  
[grow dang it! you lousy 30 buck wimpymoss!] i'm still hopeless at moss and bolbitis
 :Wink:

----------


## Rupert

Thanks Standoyo

I wouldnt get offended; we are all on the same journey with many different schools of thought and many more destinations along the way. 

I am happy to receive feedback as a different perspective I was told a long time ago is worth 20 IQ points. However the hard part about feedback is how to consider it in a manner that doesnt corrupt you point of view or twist your feeling of satisfaction to one of dissatisfaction. 

What is good about this forum is that people take the time to read, support; assist, comment and therefore improve the state of the hobby/art  The hard part for me over the next couple of months is watching the aquascape mature and keeping the itchy hand syndrome under control.

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## StanChung

hi rupert,
i have itchy hand syndrome...luckily i'm away 2-3 weeks at a time otherwise my fish will fall prey to my clumsiness. [sucked by filter, choked by dirt and ammonia etc] which they do. sigh.

so as far as schools of thought goes there is zen[japanese/chinese], european[garden] and jungle[biotope], freestyle[rojak]...and modernist[using man made things like a nice bone china pot] imho. i've not seen the last one in these forums here as almost everyone here strives for a natural look that imitates nature yet more beautiful than nature.[arguable]

mixing it up guarantees originality. the forum is a great place to see and think to one self...ah why didn't i think of that? i wish i had one tank for every idea i had. i am happy just to see your creation as a partial extension of my mind.
which is cool i think for you to share...



kind regards.
itchy fingers

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## Rupert

It has been a while since I have had the opportunity to read the posts on AQ and even less time to post my own progress. It has only been 160 days since the tank was planted out, with a few up's and downs.... 

*Critters*
The Cherry shrimp were breeding in greater numbers; my approach with them has been to remove the pale shrimp into another tank, the goal being to increase the redness quality of the remaining population. Some of my cherry shrimp are a solid bright red which is the desirable trait wanted in the entire population, so every now and then I remove as many pale ones that I can capture. However most of the pale shrimp seem to be male, so assuming/hoping that there are at least a couple of deep red male ones in the remaining population then I should be ok. 

It has often been mentioned that shrimp will live in the bottom of a canister filter and I was pleased find that this was the case with mine, I had about twenty shrimp happily living in the bottom with a couple of guppys that were very skinny, but otherwise ok. At the time of writing I have yet to check the other canister filter and expect to find cherry shrimp at the bottom of that as well 

With some controlled guppy breeding their multiplication slowed down a bit, but I still had a lot, in fact more than I wanted and culled heavenly. Of course after culling I went out and bought some more fish; 5 Gyrinocheilus aymonieri [golden algae eaters] that cruise the rocks and the glass sucking up whatever they find.

The wood shrimp have yet to produce any eggs, which is a bit of a relief as I would feel compelled to try and raise them and I only have one small quarantine tank that has my female guppys and the culled cherry shrimp. I sort of made my mind up the shrimp were my priority rather than fish. I shouldnt forget the Yamato as they seem to have lots of energy in their search for food.

*Algae*
The battle with hair algae was not difficult and it was rather bearable, however another more persistent challenge arose and I havent been that successful in gaining control over a fuzzy algae that appeared. This fuzzy algae covered the Hair Grass, other plants and the glass, I have had this algae for a couple of months, which wasnt a worry as it doesnt suffocate rather it is a nuisance. 

A solution didnt readily appear but as I was spending day & night at work I did a 6 day blackout, more as silver bullet solution that didnt impact me too much. 

Naturally as I didnt have the cure it came back within 3 days of the tin foil being removed from around the tank. The moral of this is that blackouts only work when in conjunction to the root cause being solved. 

As soon as you do cover your tank with tinfoil the number of impromptu visitors to home increased as well, so what should have been a quiet week turned into one with too much work and too many people, who could only admire the dominating silver object in the living room. When the tinfoil was removed, the fuzz algae had largely gone [85%] there was also number of Aponogeton Longiplumulosus & Hair Grass blades that had turned brown which lead to an increase in the number of planarian [flatworms] seen.


It wasnt until a number of variables were tested [Raising the lights, changing dosing habits] that I think I found the source of the problem. As my fish and shrimp population grew, so did my nitrates levels and because I had stopped testing nitrates some time ago, I was unaware of how high the actual nitrate levels had risen to. I had also increased my feeding frequency which probably didnt help much. The response was on a number of fronts:

	Culled the guppy numbers dramatically,
	Stopped dosing Macros and only dosed Micros, until the nitrate levels were under some form of control
	Increased the CO2
	Replaced the R. Wallichii which had stopped performing with Hygrophila difformis which is a fast/rampant grower 
	Larger weekly water changes 

The above slowly brought the situation under control.

*Equipment*  
No new equipment just carried out regular maintenance of cleaning the hoses and replaced once the pre-media pads in the canister filters. The JBJ guy came and serviced the chiller. He flushed the contents and generally took it apart to inspect. I was rather surprised that when he flushed out the contents that it was relatively clean. 

*Plants*
The Aponogeton Longiplumulosus had flowered a few times and when the flower stems started to rot, I cut off the flower heads and threw them my small tank. The flower heads released green oval shaped seeds which floated around for a day or so then sank to the bottom and begun to grow. No special treatment has provided and they seem quite hardy, the picture below shows one seed that is about a week old. They will be harvested once & if they get bigger to move.

**
The Hair Grass had become very thick carpet that was firmly rooted enough for me to comb it roughly to remove the Java Moss fronds that had been shed. The dense mat that the roots had created also allowed me to use my tweezers move it away from the glass to facilitate water circulation and sort of gave a boarder to the tank. 

The Rotala Wallichii really didnt do much at all and wouldnt rate a mention, other than to say it didnt do much, it never flowered and so it was as good as gone just didnt have time to replace it. Several weeks passed and I saw at my local LFS [Biotope] a rather common plant [Hygrophila difformis] that had a light green upper leaf colour and an almost white colour underneath. I surmised that this would stand out against the black back ground quite well and so planted a few pots and now waiting for it to fill in the space that it has been provided. 

The Blyxa Japonica had developed into really bushy plants which started to crowd-out the surrounding Hair Grass in a manner that was not intended; in addition they had increased to a height by floating on their roots so they were no longer as attractive. The preference now was to replace some of the Blyxa Japonica with Hair Grass. After some thinking it over a couple of weeks on how to reuse the plants I decided that it would look good in the crevices and natural pockets that existed in the wood. I hadnt thought about using Blyxa Japonica in this manner when I set up the tank, but stepped combination looked good as it broke up the dominance of the Java Moss wall. The Japonica at the top of the wood I hoped would allow the flowers to reach the water surface, a difficult feat to organize when the tank is 30 inches high. 

 .  
*120 days -------------- 160 days*
Fortunately the Blyxa Aulbertii seemed very happy in the tank from the first day it was planted and didnt go through the melting stage that my Japonica went though when it was first introduced into the tank.

*The Aquascape*
With the Blyxa Japonica on the wood, it gave me the idea to remove the bottom piece of wood so that one could look though it in the hope of providing a better sense of depth or at least a more engaging tank to look at. 

By doing this more of the tank space was opened up so that there were two clearings which were more attractive and I wondered why I hadnt done this before.

The lonely green Hygrophila difformis in the picture high up on the wood is there to see what it would look like when the rest of planted ones, which are hidden at the moment are like when they reach for the water surface and no doubt try to spread



*Next steps*
At present not sure if more of the Hair Grass should be removed from the clearing to have an unobstructed lapis sand view from the glass front to the clearing and would provide a stonger focal point? I will let this thought mature for a while amongst the many other actions under consideration:

	The desire to get a diatom filter to polish the water has not gone away and sometime I will get on the internet and get myself one, at the moment I like the Magnum 350.
	A small school [15 - 20] Cardinal tetra are also wanted to replace/supplement the guppys.
	I have thought about removing the rock on the right, but the thought doesnt last long, but it comes back often.
	A decent camera which is a little better than Point & Shoot, the Cannon S2 is on the list, but am waiting for the successor to the Cannon G6 which I assume will be called the G7?

However one thought the has been on my mind that will drive the above and bring all the components together and get the presentation to peak [October/November] and then consider a photo shoot ..... or I might just sit back instead and enjoy the aquascape with the family.

----------


## |squee|

How come there are still bare white spaces?  :Grin:  Fill those spaces up with Blyxia japonica. They do grow by branching out from the stem, just cut those off and replant if you want. I fill your tank needs more uniformity and more blyxia will do that. Too many plant speices make the tank look messy.

Psst, did you edit this photo? I found the photo rather dark compared to your previous one.

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## StanChung

hi rupert,

a nice long one...  :Grin:  , your moss and hairgrass is growing nicely and good to see you beat the black bushy pests...
had same problem, bba grew on black foam bg and wont come off. emptied tank and let it dry out.

Good job on creating the cave as it gives depth. it seems the rocks still looks new you may consider letting some spot algae grow on it to look lived in?

i agree squee has a point in limiting the types of plants to create a harmonious layout? ha ha it's my advertising bg talking. like in typography...we try not to use too many fonts, otherwise looks like unless doing supermarket ad.. :Laughing: 
yours doesn't but keep faith with what you have already and fill up em empty spaces! 

 :Grin:  

ps. can't really see your blyxa aubertii but maybe because you have strong light causing it to stay short...

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## Rupert

*Hello Terrence,*

Yes there are still some white spaces that I want to keep white or possible enlarge to accentuate the clearing and then there are some spaces in which I hope the hair grass will grow into soon. I like Blyxia Japonica as well and have some in reserve to re-introduce back once I know where or should I say feel comfortable to plant them.

The previous photo was taken by experts [Benny and Chris] it has such rich, crisp detail and good contrast and is a source of enjoyment to look at. The darker photo with less contrast, that is not crisp was taken by myself with less than perfect equipment and is the result a lot of trial and error with a cheap camera. 


*Hello Standoyo,*  

yes it a been a while since I have been active on the forum. The algae that I have are not BBA, and thankful it is not as I am not sure if I could conquer BBA. This it is a green fuzzy 2 mm long threads, but not quite threads. These 2mm long bits appear quickly and have been a source of frustration. 

What I have noticed is this stuff avoids my rocks, but loves to attach itself to glass, hence my rocks are not looking aged at all!

I guess I need to do something about my spaces [clearings] make them more obvious so they do not look like bald spots. I try to restrict my plant list to 5 +/- 2 and can almost count the blyxa aubertii & blyxa Japonica as one kind. 

Current plant list:
1.	Dwarf Hair Grass [Eleocharis acicularis]
2.	Blyxa Japonica
3.	Blyxa Aubertii
4.	Hygrophila difformis
5.	Aponogeton Longiplumulosus.
6.	Java Moss

I did think that the B Auberitii would grow higher, so it must be the lights keeping it compact? I did try a red plant for a short time, but whilst it caught ones attention it turned green quickly and removed it as this its purpose was gone.

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## vinz

> ...
> 
> yes it a been a while since I have been active on the forum. The algae that I have are not BBA, and thankful it is not as I am not sure if I could conquer BBA. This it is a green fuzzy 2 mm long threads, but not quite threads. These 2mm long bits appear quickly and have been a source of frustration. 
> 
> ...


Since your plants are growing well and don't have other algae issues, I think you're having CO2 issues.

I've been fighting BBA over the last few weeks in my 6 footer. I've been having staghorn and short furry algae on the glass (like yours) . I've been concentrating on BBA, but have been ignoring the staghorn and furry alage. But seems that I've beaten all by fixing the CO2 levels to beat BBA.

It's easy to inject more CO2, but in a large tank, if that CO2 is not distributed properly... it does not help.

I messed with the CO2 reactor and CO2 injection rates to fight BBA, but to no avail. Finally I listen to Tom Barr and Peter Gwee (yeah, yeah, yeah, told me so.  :Razz:  ) and changed the lilypipe that is connected to the CO2 reactor to a tank-long rain bar and placed it 2/3 deep on the back wall just this past weekend. 4 days in, any remainding BBA seems to have stalled and no discernable new BBA growth observed. Staghorn has stalled and any furry algae that was cleaned off did not come back.

My other fert routine has not changed... 10ppm NO3, 2 ppm PO4 3x a week. 30ml Easylife Profito for traces and other macros, and 2 tablespoons Seachem Equilibirum once a week.

In the previous setup of this tank, I had beaten a BBA issue by diverting a shallow rainbar that had been blowing across and just under the water surface to blow 45 degress down to the substrate... specifically the BBA infestation area.

By the way, what is your dosing regime (i.e. what, how much and when do you dose)?

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## vinz

Oh yeah, I finally figured out what bugs me about your scape... those rocks are too straight and too far apart. The harmony is not there.

My suggestions: tilt the left rock to the left (to compliment the direction of the Aponogeton growth) and tilt the middle and right rock to right (as a balance to the left rock). The left rock is much larger, so the 2 on the left of it must pull away from it to balance the view.

Just an opinion...  :Smile:

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## StanChung

hi rupert,

i think vinz said what i didn't dare to say but in all honesty, since you made the triangle cave, that becomes the main focus now...using simple rule of thirds[simpler than 1:1.618-haha]
Look at all the 'energy' lines drawn by the shapes of your plants rocks wood is creating and you will notice it can be more pleasing by enhancing the triangle of wood/moss.

the rocks seem to have algae shield on?  :Grin:  
you may consider removing the rock[esp the big one and putting the 2nd biggest in it's place, lean it to follow the wood triangle line...] as its tends to draw focus because of it's size and brightness of it's tone. if not i suggest you put the aubertii there as the 'focus' plant. yes you may have to shade the area with some black netting to get it to grow tall. i use 60w only in a 2 x 2ht x1.5' tank and it grows really tall[3-4 inches short of two feet]!


I think you have the right idea to use blyxa's and hg to fill up the place...you may consider some anubias[needs less light, generally used as a plug the holes and cover plant!  :Laughing: ] to scatter around to break up all the vertical lines going up and cover the foot of the big plants other than japonica's and hg.

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## Rupert

*Hello Vincent,*

I think that you are quite correct in that the CO2 is probably the source of the problem. When the JBJ came to carry out my chiller maintenance I had to remove my NA external reactor. I had used some CO2 tubing that came with it as a second hand purchase and it had become twisted, now I suspect it could have been leaking, anyway it was replaced as well taking the opportunity to change the inlet/outlet connector to a larger size so more water would go through it. All this in addition to increasing the CO2 has had a dramatic/large impact in coverage and how quickly pH levels are bought down. If the this doesnt work then a rain bar might do it, but it might upset my Wood Shrimp who like to congregate in the flow.

Currently:
	pH is set at 6.6 via a controller with actual ph at 6.64 after 6 hours of illumination. CO2 at 27 ppm. This is much better than it was previous.
	KH is 4.0 [Normal 4.0  4.5]
	GH not known
	Lighting FL 12.00 am - 8:30 pm 60 watts [Total Duration 8.5 hrs] MH 14.00 pm  8:00 pm 200 watts[Total Duration 6.0 hrs. Weekends I might turn on all the lights at noon

My dosing habit changed for a short time after the Wallichii /guppys were removed and the Hygrophila Difformis was added, but has reverted to the familiar Lushgro routine of:

Sunday 20ml Macro *Po4* Water Change
Monday 2ml Micros.
Tuesday 20ml Macro
Wednesday	2ml Micros
Thursday 20ml Macro	*Po4*
Friday 2ml Micros
Saturday 20ml Macro [optional day in that may not dose]

The rocks are like old friends now, but the one on the right might go but might just let everything settle down and resist itchy hand syndrome as long as possible then act based on advice.

*Hello Standoyo,*

I am sure the algae rock shield will not last long... your anubias idea has got me thinking and thought Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite might be a good choice?

In regards to the formation of the rocks I should try and take a couple of extra pictures from different angles so as the context of the tank can be better seen, then do something

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## PeterGwee

Stop using the pH controller for the CO2. If the KH changes or gets lower, you are only going to have less CO2. Use it as a pH monitor instead and watch where the CO2 level is during the entire photoperiod. Target 30ppm and error on the high side. Its fine if it gets above 30ppm but do watch the critters to see if they are stress due to the high CO2. Try to have some surface movement..not alot but just good movement.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## Rupert

Thanks for the advice Peter, I have increased my KH to 5 and kept the pH at about 6.6 with the CO2 in the 30-40 range, with no adverse affects on my critters. There is some, but not a lot surface movement, which looks great when the MHs are on and the reflective ripples go through the tank.

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## Rupert

Finally one my wood shrimp has eggs! I had given up on them getting eggs and assumed that my entire population was the same gender even though the mathematical odds were against this being the case. 



This unexpected event forced me to act in that my surface skimmer or fish would probably remove the lava before I got to them, so the egg-laden wood shrimp staying in the large tank will be taken out. 

With only one other tank with some guppys in means it is really time for the guppys to be displaced, which in reality confirms that I preferred shrimp over fish. 

Luckily I had purchased the marine salt & hydrometer months earlier when I got some red nose mosquito shrimp and they began to carry eggs, however at the time I just didnt have the energy or equipment to follow through. 

So I have made a few containers of diluted salt water have been made in preparation for the eggs to be released. I will have had to settle for what was practical, in that salt concentrations will be increased in rather large increments at a time. Since brackish water {salt & fresh} must be rather variable in salt concentrations I will increase the salinity slowly over the first few days then in larger increments than probably desirable and then hope for the best over their development cycle.

The plan of attach will be to wait until day 19 since the eggs appeared, move the egg carrying wood shrimp to my spare tank. Then inspect the tank for lava on a daily basis, when seen net the lava to a smaller container in which salinity can be easily altered.

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## Rupert

Day 26 since I spotted my Wood Shrimp carrying eggs and decided that since I have a project in HK that would be best for the Wood Shrimp to move her back to my big tank while I am away. Really disappointed that she didn't release the egg but dont have much choice now just have admire the tank in the weekends.

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## StanChung

hi rupert,

nice pix, have you tried the nana petite's? they would def work.

hope you have resolved your co2/ph issues.

stan

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## Aquatic

nice tank nice setup
all your plant look like very healthy

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## Rupert

> hi rupert,
> 
> nice pix, have you tried the nana petite's? they would def work.
> 
> hope you have resolved your co2/ph issues.
> 
> stan


Hello Stan,

I have been reluctant to try adding any new plants as I have been traveling to much and do not want to introduce another variable that I am not home to react too or enjoy watching. The Blyxa Japonica at the top of the tank has an almost copper color to it in parts, the mid level is bronze and the substrate level is it normal green colour.

At present I am following Peter Gwees advice and really keeping the CO2 high between 30 -30 pmm. Which I am pleased to say is having the desired effect in that the fuzzy algae has almost gone and now I am just getting Staghorn algae. Staghorn algae is much more desirable.

edit - added picture

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## PeterGwee

Rupert, staghorn and all algae are not desirable.  :Razz:  Are you still using the pH controller? Stop using it...  :Evil:  

Change the way you return your filter output. Get the return to the centre-back of the tank and pipe it down to the bottom with a vertical tube. Split the flow of the vertical tube at the bottom with a T-bar and connect the two outlets with spraybars pointing forward into the plants. Drill a small hole at the top of the vertical bar about 1/8" below the surface water to provide some surface movement. This provides a good flow pattern if you use a CO2 reactor inline which I think you do. Also, consider the new CO2 misting method. Its a whole great deal of intense pearling.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## Rupert

Hello Peter,

Thanks for the note, I dont have much choice at present about the pH controller as I travel a lot and might only be back in Singapore for the weekends for the rest of this year, thus the pH controller give me some remote control freedom [winning the lottery would give me more freedom, but unlikely]. 

I have two input and two outputs [Dual Eheim 2026s] with a skimmer in a combination that provides surface movement that looks good with the MHs are on. You are right in that I am using an external reactor, which works well, but will take on board your comments on the spraybars + CO2 Misting method. Here is my pipe set up.




I kind of admire algae and Staghorn algae is my favorite form, but still would like it gone. My best attempts to have an algae tank [nano] with nothing but staghorn in it failed with hair algae going every time. 

Thanks Rupert

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## StanChung

hi rupert,

we're in similar position of not being home all the time. upping the co2 will help reduce the algae as you've noticed...
the only algae i can tolerate is spot algae, that which i use a nice sharp razor to!  :Grin:  

i agree to not introduce more plants till you've got the time. peter's suggestion of difussion like what tom talked about is interesting and some people don't agree but it's worth trying.[if you have time or more than one tank or just curious]

anyway a nice plant to drape over the big rock is rotala rotundifolia green...ha ha i know...
 :Roll Eyes:

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## Rupert

Behind every large tank I bet there is a small one, here is my 2 footer [fiveplan] that started life as a spare tank for bits and pieces, then thought I would try a Java Moss wall a month ago, added a couple of stones and whatever plants I remove from my big tank. 


I must have about 200 cherry shrimp in it that swarm across the substrate, there are so many that I worry about overcrowding. Before going to work in the morning I usually have a cup of coffee in front of and toss in some food and then sit back and enjoy. 



Specs:
·	Tank: 2 foot Five plan.
·	Lighting: indirect sunlight. But do have a light that I turn on if I want to have a look at it at night.
·	Temperature: ~26 - 27 celcius with one combined 6 fan unit. Evaporation is about 1.5cm a day
·	Substrate: lapis
·	Filtration: cheap powerhead unit.
·	Fertilization: nil.

Fauna: 
·	Java Moss, Blyxa Japonica, duckweed and a couple seedlings of Aponogeton Longiplumulosus + some Dwarf Hair Grass & H Deformis that floated to the surface on my big tank. All the plants seem happy and are growing except for the HG which survives rather than grows
·	Water Changes 30-50% when I think about it

Critters:
·	200 Cherry Shrimp & snails

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## Rupert

What turned out to be a 3 nights away from home turned out to more than 21, and with another trip arranged for November and away in December, I knew had to do something about moving my tank from the High Tech  life in the fast lane towards the low tech  life in the slow lane. 

With only Saturday morning at home to implement the transition, it was thought that the best approach was to reduce the lighting intensity and turn off the CO2, I couldnt do anything about the plants, so they will just have to adapt. 

At present I have 360 watts of lighting, which I planned to reduce by 40%[to 214w] or 50%[to 180w]. The problem was my Dymax Hilux MHs, I cannot raise them to reduce the intensity and with a rather deep 30-inch tank, another problem that was seen was light penetration.

So light replacement or supplement was on my mind, knowing that MHs cant be beaten for intensity, choosing the next best light setup was the challenge. Since I was in Hong Kong a after a few trips to Tung Choy /Fish Street, I settled on going for T5s plus after a bit of confusion specifically two sets of T5 HO 2 x 54 w or 216 watts in total. 

What is confusing is that the T5s are sold everywhere but one has to specifically ask for T5 HO and some of the light units are sold with 4 bulbs crammed in side the casing, with insufficient space to allow the up-light to be cleanly reflected down. After a bit of reading reflectors, parabolic entered my vocabulary, then another round of searching.

Only one local HK brand SolarMax had decent parabolic reflectors, but the casing was not very attractive. So another round of searching until I gave up and settled on the Chinese SolarMax brand that two light tubes per case and what appeared to be good parabolic reflectors. Just to make it a bit interesting each case has one 6500k & one 10000k tube. 



Well I got homearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it wasnt as bad as I expected the weeks away with no water changes, no dosing gave me more forms of algae than I had experienced before, but mostly a lot of Staghorn Algae and a tiny bit of BBA on the tips of the hair grass.

I did a 50% water change, turn off the CO2 with the pH Controller now becoming a pH monitor, and changed the lighting. It was brighter than, I expected, and reminded me of my MHs but since I hadnt seen them in a month, I couldnt tell. I set the initial photo period of 9 hrs for one set and 7 hrs for the other. A about six hours later I still impressed at how bright the lights were, not really low tech at all, so reduced the lighting period for the second set to 5 hours. But might change this tomorrow before I fly back to HK monday morning.

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## ehlim

Hi Rupert, Love the look of yr tank! Is it a 4'? I am looking for one which matches the living room furniture. (no choice lah, have to appease the other half!  :Grin:  ) Where did you get it from? And of course, how much? Would really like to know yr experience with a new tank setup. Are you blogging on it? Best wishes in yr setup.  :Smile:

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## Rupert

> Hi Rupert, Love the look of yr tank! Is it a 4'? I am looking for one which matches the living room furniture. (no choice lah, have to appease the other half!  ) Where did you get it from? And of course, how much? Would really like to know yr experience with a new tank setup. Are you blogging on it? Best wishes in yr setup.


Hello ehlim,

Yes it's 4 footer and it cost me more than I like to think about as it is braceless and 30 inches tall, 15mm glass, but if you want to know the maker & pricing then PM me. As the setup sits in a visually dominate position in the apartment, I too was concerned about fitting it in with the furniture and trying to keep everyone happy. I documented my experiences & mistakes as I went along and you will find those in the previous pages of this thread, specifically there are some PDF files for the equipment & scape setup to day 0, then first 30 days and finally day 60 - 90, culminating in the picture that Benny & Chris did at day 90.... Happy reading

Rupert

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## ehlim

Tks Rupert for the sharing. Silly me, should have known there are 5 pages to this thread!  :Opps:  Newbie to not only planted tanks but forum lah.....I can't pm you, but my email is [email protected]. Once again, tks. Best regards.

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## Rupert

I have reduced the lighting on one light unit down to 3 hours and kept the other at 9 hours as the lights just seemed too bright.

I found this General information article [PDF] on Philips T5 and T5 HO lamps one of the best sources of information available. It explains and contrasts the luminescence of T5, T5 HO and T8

http://home.zonnet.nl/rsetteur/aquarium/tl5_manual.pdf#search='Philips%20AND%20Tl%20%275%20HO'

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## Rupert

I was away for 30 days and came home to find the tank looking ok, quite a bit of Staghorn / green spot algae but other than that everything looked ok, not bad at all for no water changes in the last month. The nitrates were high when tested, but this is not unexpected so did the usual and change the water and started to clean everything. 

It was when I was cleaning all the hoses and pipes this morning that I dropped one of my glass Lillie pipes, broke at the bend, really annoyed at myself, now I have this big green Ehiem Lillie pipe that just stands out!

The lighting duration has remained at 8 hours for 108w T5 Ho set and 3 hours for the second 108 w set and this seem to be ok. Certainly growth is slower and the Japonica has lost the copper hue that had before, but life in the slow lane is paying off with as I will be away again for a couple of weeks, so am quite please at the transition away from dosing and CO2. I still add micros and PO4 when I am around.

The only thing of interest that I have bought from Hong Kong is some small crabs, in Chinese called Wild Red Crab, not sure of correct name, but bought twenty, 4 perished in getting them to Singapore and acclimatizing to my quarantine tank. These little crabs seem to want to stay submersed, however I put a grill on top of the tank to prevent any escapes. 

The crabs are not red, rather a light brown colour and they seem happy eating algae wafers at present, I will see how the crabs behave before they go into my big tank. Big risk, they are probably fish eating / plant destroying monsters, but want something different. Even through there are 16 in the 2 foot tank they have virtually disappeared so might have to get some more or see if I can breed them.

Next year I am going to make some refinements to the aquascape, the guppys are going, to be replaced with schooling fish, probably Cardinal Tetra. The Aponogeton Longiplumulosus might go, and have been thinking about some additional wood that I saw at my local LFS [Biotope] that will add a new dimension.

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## spinex

Thanks for the lighting link info. Still waiting for my 2ft Solarmax which will probably come in Feb. 

Was wondering to go with 10000k x 6500k combo or 8000k x 6500k combo.

Those crab of yours will surely tear down any scaping of yours plus any fishes or shrimps will easily become part of it's diet  :Evil:

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## Rupert

> Those crab of yours will surely tear down any scaping of yours plus any fishes or shrimps will easily become part of it's diet


The crabs didn't make it :Sad:  probably the hard water vs soft water change? Anyway they passed away one by one, they seemed to be eating and didn't want to escape except one which I found to late. I never did find out what king of crabs they were … which reminds me there is still one being preserved deep in the freezer somewhere!

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## Rupert

A quick CNY update - Not much to say after 2 months and 3 weeks of not CO2, I then decided to turn the CO2 back on the as the plant growth was next to nothing. In fact the B. Japonica was thinning out to almost nothing, which is not unexpected with only 108 watts on most of the time. 

The only thing growing quickly was the staghorn algae, so in conjunction with turning on the other T5 HO set the CO2 went on as well. Somewhere between 360 watts of MH intensity and 108 watts there is a moderate path, hopefully 216 watts? 

Anyway the setup is nearly 12 months and generally stable, the itchy hand syndrome being satisfied by focusing on another tank, but this 4 footer will still go through a few future changes with the addition of the odd plant or two and cardinal tetras expected to replace the guppies.

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## spinex

Cardina Tetra will definitely look much better on your tank !

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## Rupert

The transition back from Low Tech to high tech with T5 HOs wasnt as smooth as desired. I managed to get BBA on my hair grass and the Blyxa Japonica really suffered. The change from MHs [360 watts] to T5 HOs [216 watts] and the depth of the tank [30 inches] meant the Japonica withered rather than grew; even the B Japonica high up on my wood was not able to outgrow the Java Moss. 

I replaced or should I say filled the B Japonica gaps with Cryptocoryne undulata Red. The different shaped leaves have taken a while for me to appreciate [possibly a mistake] but for certain all the shrimp didnt like the change and hid or gathered in groups as a sign of distress. The new plants must have had something on them as I had to catch as many shrimp as possible and put them in my small 2ft tank. It took probably 4 weeks for the environment to settle down and to see all the critters happy again. Of course by that stage I had seen Cryptocoryne Nurii and want to add that as well, but now have reservations on any more plant additions until I find a better way of doing this

45 Cardinal Tetra have added to replace the Guppys and the CO2 is now turned on with a vengeance to combat Staghorn algae and BBA. It was pleasing to see the BBA almost go away, yet Staghorn algae still persists.

Lastly I had these big planarian always on the glass at night. The planarian were the sort of 2cm planarian that people go wow they are big when they were first seen. The Planarian had been a growing problem and what I didnt realize was that I had no snails, except for a couple of big snails that I almost knew by name. I expect that hundreds of cheery shrimp had literally staved the snails out of existence so when the new plants were added, a new supply of small snails were added and the snail population has bounced back to the point that the planarian are no longer seen.

Water changes are about 1 per month, a real change from the weekly ones I use to do before. Dosing is mostly Micros 2 times a week with PO4 on a weekly basis.

So almost time to take a picture of two

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## StanChung

that's weird...the blyxas must have some problem with your water...i find them easy to grow in some tanks but not others.

lighting was never the issue. they actually look greener with lower light.

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## Rupert

An update, not much has changed, still have to borrow my wifes camera, the plant growth has slowed down with the T5 HOs, especially the Hair Grass and the B. Japonica. Cleaned the rocks the other day so that they stood out a bit more as I found the Java moss was taking over.

Shrimp population in the hundreds, keep the water filled with small debris to the joy of the woodshrimp that sit in the water current with their fans open

From left to Right

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## ranmasatome

Rupert!! its looking better and better!! thats the way it should be.. :Smile: 
those tied crypts are great!! Gives a nice colour splash and pulls the eye up..

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## Rupert

Finally a front on shot.


here is a link in case the picture cannot be seen
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/galle...Tank0006-2.JPG

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## ranmasatome

it doesn't come on Rupert.. :Sad:

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## Rupert

> it doesn't come on Rupert..


You cannot see picture or the layout isn't any good?

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## ranmasatome

i cant see anything.. :Sad:

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## kemp

i love your foreground! Nice!

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## axela11

I just came across this thread and spent a good 45 minutes or so reading every single post and article. It's a truely awesome tank you've got Rupert!

Btw have you got any tips on rearing guppies in planted tanks? I've never had any success with them. I'm not sure if there's a problem with my tank conditions, but I never had any problems with other fishes in my 2ft densely planted tank.

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## Rupert

*Kemp*  Thanks but the foreground has a bad infestation of Staghorn algae at present which makes it denser that it really is, plus I am struggling to find the right programme of activities to remove it, but such is life.

*Hi Axela11,* thanks for the complement I started this thread with the intention of documenting my journey which has not been too bad, got somethings right and somethings wrong. Guppys are a joy they are hardy, constantly want food and have a strong desire to reproduce. The only thing that I can think is to try again.

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## spinex

Rupert,

Your tank seem to do quite well even with just dosing of micro and KH2SO4.

I'm also using T5HO and also combatting from staghorn algae.

So your dosing routine is just KH2SO4 once per week and 2 x Micro ?

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## axela11

> *Hi Axela11,* thanks for the complement I started this thread with the intention of documenting my journey which has not been too bad, got somethings right and somethings wrong. Guppys are a joy they are hardy, constantly want food and have a strong desire to reproduce. The only thing that I can think is to try again.


Ok now i'm really tempted to try again  :Wink:  

can i just check with you though, do guppies prefer water that are more stagnant? the guppies i used to keep seem to have trouble swimming against the current caused by the filter in my tank.. i don't know if it's their big tails that are giving me that illusion or they're really trying hard to keep still.

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## Rupert

*Hi Spinex* I have been unable to rid myself of Staghorn, I have defeated BBA, hair algae and a few others but since I switched to T5 HOs, then no CO2 for a while then lots of CO2, then it ran out just as I was walking out the door to the airport a few weeks ago, so bought another bottle to avoid that issue. At the same time I had been only dosing micros and PO4 in large amounts. In a short space of time as I am only in Singapore during the weekends at the moment

The Staghorn has become prolific, the family say it looks good why not replace my hair-grass with itso just last week I have gone back to dosing Lushgro Macros with my last assumption something is missing that is inhibiting the plants, the next step will be to get a fast low light grower to add and possible change to a new fertilizer. Standoyo did mention in previous post that it could be the water as the B Japonica has almost become extinct in all my tanks when it use to be a weed.

*Hi Axela11,* guppys are generally quite sturdy, they like clean water but if your waterflow is too aggressive they suffer as they cannot rest. The only other thing that I can think of is that something in your tank is bullying/killing/eating them. Do you notice the tails deteriorating as something slowly nibbles on the tails while fish while they rest, until they are unable to swim? Do you have a real guppy killer in your tank like a crayfish?

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## Rupert

I have been stricken with staghorn algae and have been fighting it for ages, but it just keeps on coming back so fast! Now I have what the family calls “nuclear” staghorn which I think might be ricca. Both kinds look the same, but the “nuclear” kind is a vivid bright green, so I am not sure what I have. 

Anyway was loosing the battle, pulled out a lot of hair grass trying to remove it all and decided, after six months, that my T5 HO’s [4 x 54 watts] just don’t have sufficient penetrating power to reach the 2.5 feet to the bottom of the tank. So out came the Dymax [2 x150watts MH’s] and now have those on for two hours [initially] a day as well as the T5’s to see if that helps. 

The MH’s have an intensity that drives the light almost like sunlight, they force plants to “colour up”. So here what 516 Watts does to Cryptocoryne undulata:

*Side-on*

*Top-Down*

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## |squee|

Looks like you're lacking in some nutrient there  :Razz:

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## ranmasatome

i dont think so.. i think its high light so increased No3 uptake.. but same aomount dosed...so naturally..

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## spinex

Rupert,

So your staghorn is kept at bay now ?

Does it imply that to apply EI method effectively we have to have strong lighting and CO2.

Can i safely conclude that if we have high CO2, low light or low intensity of light, EI dosing we bound to get some algae ? Because it mean those extra nutrients won't be taken much as quickly or as fast by our plants hence chances for the algae ..

My assumption only ... i'm just as confused about dosing and algae after starting for 3 months.  :Knockout:

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## Rupert

*Hello Justin & Terrance,*

Thanks for your replies, I feel that it is not just the nutrients it is the excessive lighting. This clump of C. Undulata is 12 inches maximum away from 516watts and the pure light intensity makes it hard to see the green colour. When the MH’s are off, more green can be seen. I did have B. Japonica in the same position and it turned a copper colour, unfortunately the B. Japonica didn’t tolerate my trip to low tech and I replaced them.

Today I went down Tung Choi Street in HK and had a look at one of my favorite tanks at a shop called “Hong Kong Aquarium” they have a tank almost the same dimensions as mine, possibly deeper than my 2.5 feet and they are running 8 x 150 MH’s. The reds in this tank are always bright and deep red. Naturally growth levels are phenomenal as well. 

*Hello Andrew [Spinex]*




> So your staghorn is kept at bay now ?


No I do not believe I have conquered the staghorn, it will be a few weeks before I know if the situation is improving or getting worse.




> Does it imply that to apply EI method effectively we have to have strong lighting and CO2.
> 
> Can i safely conclude that if we have high CO2, low light or low intensity of light, EI dosing we bound to get some algae ? Because it mean those extra nutrients won't be taken much as quickly or as fast by our plants hence chances for the algae ..


I think to apply EI effectively one needs to have the discipline to maintain the regime over a period of time, adjusting or changing one variable at a time until you know cause-effect relationships for your aquascape. The water changes reset the environment and are important. I would leave home for a couple of days and find out I was away for weeks… then untold trips away result in no stability for the family or the tank this causes problems. 

To have “EI dosing” high and correct C02 levels with low intensity light, in the absence of regular water changes would probably result in an tank environment that is not balanced towards plant growth and where plant growth is not balanced then algae arises. Light is plant food, to have low intensity light when all the other variables indicate that high light intensity is required will probably create favorable conditions for algae.

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## mozesyap

It is really great to read this thread as it chart the progress of your tank Rupert.

Anyway, just to talk about the question on EI, part of EI is indeed water changes to reset the concentration of nutrients in the water and high growth + high light + high CO2 + high dosing.

I have read one of Tom's article on Low maintenance tank 

Essentially I think the EI is no longer true EI, because of the slower growth and no water changes, dosing has to be very much reduced

Here's the article, hope Tom doesn't mind me posting the link
http://www.barrreport.com/forums/sho...=2&pp=&conly=1

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## Rupert

> Here's the article, hope Tom doesn't mind me posting the link
> http://www.barrreport.com/forums/sho...=2&pp=&conly=1


Thanks mozesyap … Tom Barr probably wouldn’t mind about the link. I found the logic of the EI approach quite influential… just a pity that I am not been home [Singapore] much over the last six months to follow the regime.

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## Rupert

*Freshwater Limpets*

For something different to do, bought nine Freshwater “Septaria porcellana [Linnaeus, 1758]” in Hong Kong… two perished on transportation, the rest seemed to be acclimating, but not sure if they will totally adjust to soft water or not? 

 
Size about 2.5cm in diameter
Really would like to find a Singapore source for these as I find the more odd critters seen in Hong Kong do not adapt well to my Singapore tank conditions.

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## Justikanz

Eh... These can be found in Singapore... Seen in C328...

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## Rupert

> Eh... These can be found in Singapore... Seen in C328...


Thanks Justikanz… typical of my current travel commitments is that it is easier to go to Tung Choi Street than C328. However that will change in 4 weeks and will have time to search C328 for these limpets as I find critters like this captivating, even if the move slowly.

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## Rupert

It has been a quiet month, with many trips away from family and the tank. Every attempt has been made to conquer “staghorn algae”, it wasn’t until I saw this 

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...64&postcount=7

That the algae seeds of doubt were sown and with the slow [and still possibly incorrect] realization I that it wasn’t staghorn I was fighting, I now think I have the sinking form of Riccia. I knew I had some Riccia as the family call it “nuclear staghorn” this stuff is so hard to remove, but the sinking form was pervasive within my hair grass that I could remove handfuls every week. 

Naturally when one thinks is algae I up’ed the CO2, the up’ed dosing so no limiting factors, then up’ed the lighting to 576 watts until it got insane… I went through a bottle of CO2 in a few weeks and this stuff grew and grew… as if it was mocking me.

Anyway Monday night in a different country, bored in a hotel and not home predictably for another month here are some interim pictures. At present there are some gaps that need to maturation time to fill and as I hope you can see I am going through a Red phase

 

*Plants*
Dwarf Hair Grass [Eleocharis acicularis]
Aponogeton Longiplumulosus.
Cryptocoryne undulate
Java Moss
Hygrophila difformis
Limnophila aromatica 
Ludwigia sp. Guinea – from Justin [ranmasatome]
Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite'– from CKM 
Riccia fluitans

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## |squee|

So it isn't staghorn then?  :Laughing:  Riccia can be classified as an algae from now on.

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## Rupert

Well I am certainly amazed at how quickly Ricca grows, in just over 3 weeks I had a carpet of Ricca over the entire bottom of my tank. My only concern was that I thought it was starving my hair grass of light, so removed it gently, but still some Hair Grass was pulled up at the same time. 

I guess that this will be a monthly activity now.

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## grey_fox

It actually looks quite nice, the submerged riccia.

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## ranmasatome

Rupert..
I'm enjoying the red phase alot..
and in that post.. under the plant list..
You forgot riccia...lol  :Razz:  
Its funny that all the time you thought it was algae and did everything to only make its growth more rampant..haha.. should have taken a photo of the bugger dewd.. :Smile:  Now you understand why this is the most hated plant. i almost hate it as much as algae.
With such a deep tank and it growing at the bottom.. i fear for it.
Keep at it.. who know what would happen..

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## Rupert

> It actually looks quite nice, the submerged riccia.


I looks very good when pearling I can see why people like ricca for this reason alone. In a few weeks that carpet look will be back.





> Its funny that all the time you thought it was algae and did everything to only make its growth more rampant..haha.. should have taken a photo of the bugger dewd.. Now you understand why this is the most hated plant. i almost hate it as much as algae.


In hindsight I laugh at myself, for months and months I battled this stuff and every act to defeat it was actually promoting its growth, the more extreme the act the more extreme the growth, it was mocking my attempts. 

I have been defeated by Ricca. and now understand why it is hated and can imagine that once introduced it is virtually impossible eradicate without harming every other plant. I better get use to having it!

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## Rupert

Bought 3 male Cameroon [Atyopsis gabonensis] shrimp during the September 06 AQ Farm Excursion. They are passive filter feeders, gentle shy giants that seem to be settling in. I cannot wait until all three can be seen at once. 

My three are quite large and make woodshrimp look small. Here is a picture of one fanning with a 2 inch woodshrimp on its tail.

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## Justikanz

Oh, my! The wood shrimp looked like a baby... or a desperate teenage male...  :Opps:  How I wish I have the courage to try these gentle giants... I am so afraid I will end up killing them...  :Opps:

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## jacquetlc

Glad to know that Benny's cooler box trick works! Learnt another thing from the trip... always keep a cooler box for purchases... Hmm...

By the way, the plants that you are pulling out... are they Ricca or Riccia? ... Are their demands high and can they be purchased in LFS easily? 

Am starting a cube tank for shrimps... they do really look nice as 'carpet' ... very thick!  :Smile:

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## jacquetlc

> Oh, my! The wood shrimp looked like a baby... or a desperate teenage male...  How I wish I have the courage to try these gentle giants... I am so afraid I will end up killing them...


why/how do you want to  :Knockout:  these GENTLE giants... erm... grill slowly with garlic and butter? ...  :Opps:

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## Justikanz

Jacquetlc, it is riccia... You can search for discussions on riccia in AQ and soon you will read why we would like to classify the floating plant as a pest.  :Razz: 

I have a small handful to giveaway, you can try if you want to. Check my selling thread. Else, they are easily available in most LFS. C328, Nature and Colourful, for example, usually have them.

Anyway, I said I am afraid they might die on me...  :Razz:  Not me wanting to eat them... Haha!...  :Laughing:

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## Rupert

> Jacquetlc, it is riccia... You can search for discussions on riccia in AQ and soon you will read why we would like to classify the floating plant as a pest.


This plant is truly a pest, I pull out of my tank a bucket full at the end of every month, this equates to 2 inch thick carpet that is peeled off the 4 by 1 foot hair grass plain.

The Riccia has to be removed as stifles the growth of the Hair Grass and it justs gets thicker and thicker. However when it pearling it does look good.

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## StanChung

> This plant is truly a pest, I pull out of my tank a bucket full at the end of every month, this equates to 2 inch thick carpet that is peeled off the 4 by 1 foot hair grass plain.
> 
> The Riccia has to be removed as stifles the growth of the Hair Grass and it justs gets thicker and thicker. However when it pearling it does look good.


Hahaha, Amano still uses it to attract newbies. From one little y shape in one month if left unchecked can grow palm size. It is a weed! How i wish my downoi would do the same!

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## Rupert

Moving /evolving, reduced the lighting by about 400Ws, just enjoying the Discus, anyway here is an update.

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## richietay

Nice scape, impressed! Your discus are so beautiful, adapting well in your tank.

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## mordrake

very nice discus... looking very happy in their beautiful home too  :Smile:  
may i know where you got the discus from? pm me price too  :Grin:

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## Rupert

Hi Richietay & Mordrake,

I have had the discus [Leopard Snake Skin] about 5 months and they have grown considerably. They do like a place to hide / sleep and the 6 seemed to have formed 3 pairs as the tank is 30 inches tall they have some space to find their own private areas. 

I got the discus at Just Discus Blk 11 Jalan Bukit Merah #01-4438. This shop has a very good selection and good advice. I asked for 3 pairs, and even though the fish were quite small the owner was reasonably sure he was choosing the right mix.

I have noticed that I did get a hair algae problem, possibly linked to volume of food I was feeding them, but for certain my cherry shrimp population was reduced. I have yet to see one of the discus eat a cherry shrimp, but sure they do.

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## mordrake

beauties they are... err.. i think i have to run some errands at jalan bt merah  :Grin:

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## aquaSynthesis

Rupert...so this is da tank you wanted to 'hide' from me eh? hehehe.....

Beautiful Discus tank...I love it!

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## inimicus

OMG

amazing looking discus you got there.

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## Rupert

Hi Rizal, next time you replenish my CO2 you will have to have a look at the tank. 

Thanks Inimicus, Keeping Discus in a planted tank has been a bit of a challenge, I keep the water temp around 27C and most of my untold cherry shrimp have disappeared over the last year. I have also found that less rocks and plants allows the fish to find the beef heart easier. I believe that as the beef heart breaks up into untold small micro pieces that it facilitates BBA which is a bit annoying, but the fish are large now and a great site to see when I get home from work..

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## inimicus

I had always wanted to keep discus in a planted tank...to see your tank with those beauties in it is definitely an inspiration. I'll have to ask for your advice when i start up a planted discus tank in the future. More photos PLEASE!! How do you keep the temp at 27? Fan?

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## mozesyap

Nice. It is good to see that your tank has evolved Rupert after these couple of years.

I have stopped doing planted since moving to the States, because my work involves too much traveling. But coming back to the AQ website really makes me want to do it again.

Hmm. Maybe when I go back to SG in a couple of years.

Anyway very nice discus in a very nice tank, something I have always wanted to do.

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