# Other Aquarium Forums > Fish Care, Nutrition and Water Management >  water perimeters - molting problem on crs?

## granzord

recently 3days in a row , my crs got molting problem and death occurs. 
see 1 dead body after some empty shells.

is it due to high GH ? or something else ?

my water perimeters 

2.5ft tank. 
T5 36w 4tubes - on 8hrs from 3-11pm.
co2 -1.5ppm after light on.
dose flourish -0.5ml per day, easy life ferro 1ml per day, excel 4ml per day.
tank are 5mesh of mini us fissden. plus 1 matured logwood with mini fissden,
and another 2 logwood. 1 new logwood jsut sink, i logwood with us fissden.
Frogbits taken from bros in forums and now growing very well and small baby frogbits noticed.

canister = ehiem pro 2 , 2026.
chiller hailei 300A. (24deg)

ammonia - 0ppm
No2 - 0ppm
No3 - 0ppm
PH - 6PH

been dosing BT-9 (1scope) , shizhen (1scope) , old sea mud (1scope) and 3ml of mineral plus during water change weekly + icap seachem prime to 1-2 small red pail (15L per pail)

soil = not ada soil , forget what soil...sold at seaview , from japan.
brown colour.

8mineral rocks.

my tank consist of 14 ottos , 10 nerite snails , 30-40 crs.
the problem lies in crs dont eat anything. i try borneowild , mosura food. but those in my breeder tank . 2 tank consist of 4crs , 7 painted red are eating those.

lately see empty shells around should got 1 dead crs...
no gh or kh test kits to test.

ask experts here who come across such problem, and what to solve this.

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## granzord

is it becos of flourish or iron fertilizer ?
i see flourish got copper in it.

therefore today never put flourish and to see any dead body around.
buying mosura eros to see it helps.

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## ZackZhou

"buying mosura eros to see it helps."
no it will not help. read more info on the product that you are buying before purchasing..

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## alvinchan80

So much fertilizer when you just having moss??

What's your TDS? Mineral plus increase TDS & GH..

And you have 8pcs of mineral rocks?? 2 feet tank put just 1 or maximum of 2pcs...

You already adding shizhen which is an anti chlorine yet you add seachem prime? Isn't that a little bit extreme?

In a shrimp tank, you can't afford to be too dose too much unless you talking about bacteria enhancement..

By the way, your 15L pail is how many % water change? Keep water change to be between 5-10%...

But my take will be that your GH is high as well as your TDS from your dosage & mineral rocks...

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## granzord

i aslo suspect my GH high. any remedies >? 

i buy whole pack of minerals rocks - contribute to high GH?

dosing too much means can cut down on bt-9, old sea mud?

thinking of discountinue flourish and ferro....if they really contribute ?

If not wrong > 10-20% of water change weekly.

thinking buying GH test kit....but scare expire again.....do KH do anything here? so i wish to skip KH altogther.

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## granzord

mosura eros > contribute to crs safety molting. 
actually what is contribute?

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## ZackZhou

please do your homework, i.e check product knowledge before asking. (easily do so on product websites).
i bet you do not even know what you are dosing.
this can be clearly seen when alvinchan noted to your high chance of high gh.
your reply was to cut down on BT-9 and old sea mud.

For usage of eros:
previous threads if you really pay your attention, the use of eros have been already discussed and explained by several pro breeders.

there are always google for these commonly asked question if you are unaware of.  :Smile:

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## granzord

What to be done if gh high? 
Take out mineral rocks?
Thks for the advice

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## granzord

gh = 6 
don't think is high.

i see shells around , therefore think my water is soft. maybe crs die after molting, i monitor for a while . today no r.i.p. crs.
i suspect now is flourish . maybe copper level . as i never dose yesterday but i see empty shells today without dead body.

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## avex30

gh =6 is high too crs....... Crs do well and most of the time molt easily at 3-4... 5 sometimes you will already see problem. This situation i explain is without the use of any other stuff example like gravidas,eros,vigor etc. Meaning after water change they will molt naturally. If you add all those additives to help molt your water parameter is not consider healthy to them although they might be showing thick white shell but they will eventual die from molthing. And 8 pieces of mineral rock why in the 1st place you dump 8 pieces in??

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## granzord

Ya hand too itcy add too much mineral . Best Gh= 3-4 , ok i go do water change see able to get that. Actually got another question, why my crs dont eat? Is it becos of same problem (high gh) or sonething else. Pls anglighten me thks.

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## avex30

did you overfed? if not they could be stress out sorta if after you adjust parameter you still see the same problem stop feeding for like 2 days and than try again if they still don't pick on the food. Look around the tank. My only experience with them not eating is when my previous tank got hit by hydra. They refuse to come out to feed most of the time hiding below rocks or woods in cluster.

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## marimo

bro .. i can help u test kh/gH at night after work
gH 3-5 is sufficient
I dont have tds pen ...

I think you dosage too much of everything .. 



> No3 - 0ppm
> PH - 6PH
> 
> been dosing BT-9 (1scope) , shizhen (1scope) , old sea mud (1scope) and 3ml of mineral plus during water change weekly + icap seachem prime to 1-2 small red pail (15L per pail)


1. Minerock too much. i think 2 is enough, as you still supplement with mineral plus.
the minerock has calcium and magnesium slow release , and after you do WC, you add more mineral plus/shizen that increase gH and TDS. Maybe now thats why is gH 6
You have not mention how much % WC weekly. Too much WC will force the shrimp to molt , some not really to molt and force molting will cause problems

2. Your nitrate is zero ? Is your tester accurate? although not the immediate problem to death crs now.. just asking

3. BT-9 should not be added in the WC pail ! not even old sea mud powder
BT-9 are add into the filter as BB are surface adhere, so add directly into filter with bacter ceramic ring will encourage more BB to cultivate there
If you have add old sea mud at the base of the tank, you do not need to add more within 6 months. Your size tank should be using full bottle of old sea mud

4. Isnt Prime and shizen both a conditioner?

My opinion is the Water change is killing them. Its kind of scary how much concentration of minerals your aged water have and probably your tank had already.
At the same time quite surprise your pH is at 6 even with 8 minerock inside.
- Fertilizer also seems overdosage for low requirement moss. Flourish has small amount of copper. Got CRS user still use it , probably in heavy planted tank. risky




> mosura eros > contribute to crs safety molting. 
> actually what is contribute?


Calcium & chitin contribute to safety molting. Your minerock does the supplement already
If want to promote proper molting should get gravidas/chitin base food

CRS dont eat .. maybe too stress to eat..

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## granzord

great advice bros. 
i forgot to add old sea mud on to base when i change soil - regret. now adding 1 spoon when water change.

weekly water change - 10-20% ( 1 big red pail).
what i usually add during water change - 1sppon old sea mud into red pail , 1 spoon bt-9 onto tank surface, 1 half cap prime into pail.
when i not using prime, i dose shizhen.

it seem to me crs are throwing their empty shell around but they r happy eating around my mini fissden or logwood and not the mosura.maybe too many mineras until they full.


if i put spirlura tablets - ottos goes crazy during night time lol.

took out the minerals rock , just test GH =7....risky mode...

dose ferro 1ml, lush 8ml , excel 5ml every day
goin stop flourish dosing for a while.... usually flourish -3days, lush - 3days....
co2 - 1.5 - 2bmps as i using manuel , very hard to gauge. 

my NO3 now =0...last round still got some readings...not sure is becos of frogbits and less lifeform inside....
no2 = 0
ammonia = 0
PH=6.0 - aged water from my tankk last time , not sure how come so low...2yrs of hard work properly.
test tap water = 7.6.

think KH not so important right as ph low?

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## felix_fx2

bro, didn't know you have so many CRS...
got 1 very simple question, if CRS are eating well now i will assume there is the chance also things are good.
But on the side note the GH is high

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## granzord

only 40 crs nia...but the only problem now is gh haha

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## marimo

> i forgot to add old sea mud on to base when i change soil - regret. now adding 1 spoon when water change.
> 
> weekly water change - 10-20% ( 1 big red pail).
> what i usually add during water change - 1sppon old sea mud into red pail , 1 spoon bt-9 onto tank surface, 1 half cap prime into pail.
> when i not using prime, i dose shizhen.


from my understanding .. still not correct

Old sea mud mix with tank water & direct into tank column
(suppose to stay in tank to continuously release TE and mineral like lake and clears up water) 
(I have a way to re supplement the base as old sea mud. Mix lotsa old sea mud into de-chlorinated water, use a suction syringe, suck the content , put your hands into the thick substrate and gently blow into the base)

Bt-9 preferbly mix in tank water and pour into canister filter
(BB needs water + oxygen + surface to multiply)

Use prime, instead of shizen (contains the same minerals and active charcoal properties as old sea mud, so one less thing that contributes excessive mineral for your tank)





> dose ferro 1ml, lush 8ml , excel 5ml every day
> goin stop flourish dosing for a while.... usually flourish -3days, lush - 3days....
> co2 - 1.5 - 2bmps as i using manuel , very hard to gauge.


besides mention your low requirement moss may not need so much fertilizer .. excess nutrients not absorb will be .. later tell u
You have a pressurized CO2 + excel 5ml everyday. thats may be too much carbon? and will lower pH for 0.5 to 1 pH

Excess nutrients + CO2 may get algae bloom

kH and gH
kH and pH is interlink, kH will affect the buffer capacity of the PH swing
and CRS dont like pH swing
but gH is more important 
7 GH is too high for CRS. its may be result of too much minerocks and other mineral supplements
use plain RO/DIS water to do WC 
or ketapang/peat (but your pH is low already, may hit lower)
then look into kH of 2/3 for CRS 

And adult CRS should not molt that often as you mentioned

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## granzord

gh = 7 after i dose fertilizer yesterday
gh=5 , no dose fertilizer today.

if there realli effect or is my imgination ? haha

bro thks for the kind info. u all have been great.

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## marimo

Your fertilizer may contain maganesium ?

but 5 - 7 is a bit big jump
May be when you remove the minerock and did a PWC , the GH drops.. think harder .. is that why ?

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## Neondagger

dun add so many things into the water. last time I add flourish excel into the tank about 5ml in to my 2ft tank. after few hrs I see 1 shrimp died. It's a killer. 
plants or shrimp either one. moss can survive without flourish, flourish just make it grow faster, it's like steroid will increase the plant intake. just do 10% WC each week. I now suffering 8-9 gh and have not seen my shrimps molt. I doing 10% water change per 3 day. all I did was to measure the total volume of water roughly by using a ruler to measure the water level. it''s about 26cm for me and i use the liquid paper to mark it. then 10% is about 2cm. and I mark 24cm. then I use a pipe to suck the water all the way to 10% and add water slowly to the tank. all I did was to add distill water and shizhen. 
mosura mineral plus will increase your gh too. so dun add. I recommend you to get all the test kit needed better than seeing your shrimps die 1 by 1.

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## marimo

> last time I add flourish excel into the tank about 5ml in to my 2ft tank. after few hrs I see 1 shrimp died. It's a killer.


Guess overdosage? if your 2ft tank only 26 cm height of water. so maximum 60 X 60 X 26 = less than 100 litres of water
100 l of water only put 2.5ml of excel, and should under dose as a habit .. may 2 ml

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## granzord

haha thks for the tips. i beleive after taking out the mineral rocks, gh from 7 become 5... yesterday and today i measure gh =5... think must preform water change areadly.

bro u r right. think flourish did little damage areadly to my water despite 0.5ml dose...

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## Neondagger

haha after 1-2 weeks for water change your gh should go down to 3-4 which is good remember do not anyhow add mineralplus. only during water change. gh will only change if you do water change. I worst than you sia. noe still having problem getting my gh to 3-4. now still 8. cause of mineral plus and the coral chips I added to buffer the Ph to 6.2. now I take out a bag of coral chips my Ph drop to 5.95. but I had to take out to buffer my gh to 3-4.

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## granzord

tap water = 3gh ? can bring down gh in our tank or further add gh up? no wonder some guys here use distilled water. last time when cycling tank , i also used distilled water ... after getting my ph that i wanted , i totally stop.

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## marimo

the tap water if gh 3 will average out gh 5 thru PWC
of coz takes time , maybe 30% for 3-4 times over 2 weeks, most of the previous minerals in the tank will be exchanged. but if there's some source of mineral release in tank , it will eventually go up to gh 5 again..

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## Neondagger

I have been doing water change 10% everyday after I take out the coral chips causing having 8-9gh is scary. 
Will update after 1 week is if my water th will decrease. I do wc with shizhen liquid and distilled water
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio Z715e using Tapatalk

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## granzord

today another death and GH= 6... think must cycle properly before thinking of crs haha.hope bros got their best gh

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## Neondagger

I wonder if any bro hear about the brand bacter, softwater for gh down. After 3 10% wc. My gh still 7, so I brought a bacter softwater to lower the gh. Currently only added 1 teaspoon. Tmr morning I will check the gh again. I use distill water to do wc 

learning the hard way!!!

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## granzord

Another 3 death so far... Tink i dont hand itcy anymore and completely stop dosin fertilizer.1 death per alternative day . Worry me as occur too frequen

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## Neondagger

Ok still after 3 wc still no improvement with gh. I give up so I bought gh down from petmart. The instruction say 1 tablespoon cure 100litre of water. I add 1 teaspoon every 1 hr. So far no casuality. Gh gone down from 7 to 6 after 4 teaspoon. But I dun want to rush it. 

learning the hard way!!!

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## Ecalyte

> Ok still after 3 wc still no improvement with gh. I give up so I bought gh down from petmart. The instruction say 1 tablespoon cure 100litre of water. I add 1 teaspoon every 1 hr. So far no casuality. Gh gone down from 7 to 6 after 4 teaspoon. But I dun want to rush it. 
> 
> learning the hard way!!!


You're going about this completely the wrong way.

First of all, your GH will only ever EVER go up like that if you have something in the tank that is contributing to it's increase. Our tap water GH is very low. So you have to first find out what is causing your GH to go up.

Post a full tank shot of your setup including all the information we need to know to help you figure out what is causing the GH to increase; Ornaments, Filter media, Substrate type. Otherwise, you're going to be dosing that chemical for the rest of your hobby.

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## marimo

3 death of out 40 is a sign of wrong parameters .. have to lower the GH to 4, test kh and TDS





> Ok still after 3 wc still no improvement with gh. I give up so I bought gh down from petmart. The instruction say 1 tablespoon cure 100litre of water. I add 1 teaspoon every 1 hr. So far no casuality. Gh gone down from 7 to 6 after 4 teaspoon. But I dun want to rush it.


if your GH is 7, and still no improvement after mix with distill+shizen PWC.. something is buffering the tank GH
thou i dont think u overdose shizen

the addictive is a temporarily solution imo .. does not really buffer the whole tank water for long term, just like pH down and ph up solutions.

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## Neondagger

Ye my tank got limited things. Driftwood with flame moss. Flame moss on mesh. Minipelia. A shrimp breeding cave with subwantang. The only thing that will up gh is my coral chips, I lower the amount of coralchips by half already. My too low so I need the coral chips to buffer my Ph. Currently I having 5.95-6.1 Ph before I lower the amount of coral chips my Ph buff to 6.2
learning the hard way!!!

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## ZackZhou

The coral chips is increasing your gh. Remove all of them ASAP.

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## marimo

yap coral chip not suitable ..
you may want to check your kH too
thats when using coral to bring the kH and PH up, but GH is slowly release over time





> The only thing that will up gh is my coral chips, I lower the amount of coralchips by half already. My too low so I need the coral chips to buffer my Ph. Currently I having 5.95-6.1 Ph before I lower the amount of coral chips my Ph buff to 6.2


what is too low so you need coral chips to buffer pH ? 
Do you mean kH ?

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## reiner09

Remove the coral chips...gh 7 is quite high for shrimps. shrimps should be still able to handle ph as low as 5.7

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## Ecalyte

Neondagger, did you not learn anything from your previous thread in the Invertebrates section? I took SO MUCH time in typing out all that advice, and you can still come here and say that you have CORAL CHIPS in a CRS SETUP????????????????????

In case you didn't even bother reading it, here's the link to your previous disaster.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...-dying!!/page2

I SPECIFICALLY stated that you MIGHT have coral chips and to remove it asap. I even defended you against the hordes of tirades being thrown at you.

Eh seriously la. Can you please take the time to get your BASICS right? Don't just read what people say here and regurgitate in all the different forums that you're contributing in. It's quite obvious your basics is really limited. Please take the time to educate yourself on what the pieces that you put in will do to your water. 

Your signature is very relevant to what you're doing. Learning the HARD way. There is a difference between what you're doing, and learning the smart way. I always use this analogy.

There's a brick wall in front of you, and you need to tear it down. You can spend all the energy in the world using your fists, and you will only end up breaking them without a single brick falling. You can take a hammer and start pounding bit by bit.. you'll eventually get there. Or you can find a tractor, use as little energy as stepping on the accelerator and mow down the entire wall. 

You sir, are using your fists in trying to learn this hobby. The hard way, not the smart way.

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## theshrimp

Removing coral chips immediately and stop dosing mineral plus for a period of time should help.

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## marimo

opps someone tio meh ..

neondagger .. 
dont waste fellow mates valuable advice.. 3-4 months of CRS keeping , should know coral usually used for sulawesi, not for CRS
and CRS parameter is quite tight. allowing GH to shoot to 8-9 is negligent 

when u post a thread for help, also make sure you follow up and absorb the valuable advice and become betta and more experience... level up !

cheers

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## Neondagger

I put coral chips cause my ph drop damn low last time. before there is any crs. 5.2. I got some crs from eviltrain and must increase my ph. therefore I use coral chips. I took out every coral chips and the breeding cave from the tank. what can I do if my ph too low? currently 5.9. after a wc my gh probably drop to 3-4 cause the coral chips has been taken out.

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## Neondagger

I thought moderate amount of coral chip to buffer the ph up by 0.2 should be fine. well trying to find the balance now.

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## marimo

have u found out why pH goes to 5.2? couldn't be the soil? soil buffer to 6 usually

So far the only way that i know to increase pH without increasing gH is to
1. lessen CO2, increase O2 thru aeration
2. using baking soda to increase kH and pH

by using commercial products 
3. use BW mineral rock to buffer gH and pH slightly higher 
4. use BW humic to buffer pH 6.4 gH 4

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## Neondagger

confirm the soil. ada amazonia new. I took out the coral chips, did 15% wc with distill water (aerated with ketapang leave in my temporary sump tank). my current gh is now 5, current ph is 5.97. will check again at 7.30 to see if gh go down.

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## reiner09

Hmm..you complained of too low a ph..you still use ketapang leaf water for water change? contradicting much?

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## Neondagger

if I dun use I afraid there will be ph spike.

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## reiner09

it will be better if you drip pure distilled water straight into the tank instead..

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## Neondagger

This is the picture of my tank. quite blur cause of the dew. I just tested the gh. still 5.

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## Ecalyte

Neondagger, if you bothered to read about what are the causes of the worries that you have, then you won't be doing all these ill-advised acts. Why are you worried about a pH spike when you are trying to increase your pH? You shouldn't even be putting ketapang in your aged water if you want to increase your pH. I'm using ADA New Amazonia too and my pH is sitting at 6.3!

What makes you think that adding 15% of 7.5 pH to a full tank of 5.9 pH will cause a pH spike? It's quite safe, trust me. Just take out the coral chips and you will be fine.

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## Ecalyte

Your setup is fine! Leave it as it is man... As long as your coral chips are out of the tank then you'll be fine! 5 GH is also fine. Don't tinker anymore, your soil will eventually bring the GH down slowly.

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## gryphon

5.9 PH is fine. I am keeping CRS at 5.8 and some bros even lower. So don't worry about the PH.
Nowadays the tap water PH is 7.6-8 depending on your area. So if you age tap water (without ketapang leaves) for water change, you PH will gradually increase. Unless your soil is really doing very well to keep the low PH.
What temperature did you set for such high condensation on your tank glass?

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## Neondagger

I set at 23degree. I saw some people use 24-25, but I thought 23 would be the most optimus temp for breeding. Correct me if I'm wrong

learning the hard way!!!

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## Jianyuan

So your ph now is 5.9 after you revmoed your coral chips.

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## Neondagger

Yup previously 6.1

learning the hard way!!!

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## Jianyuan

No worries about the pH, since tap water nowadays are having high pH, it will slowly alter your pH level. Shrimps will still survive in that pH.

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## RonWill

> I set at 23degree. I saw some people use 24-25, but I thought 23 would be the most optimus temp for breeding


 Breeding?? If I have to wear long johns and sweater to bed, I'd rather sit next to my radiator, keeping cozy!!
25°C is plenty fine. 23°C just make your chiller work harder.

It's amusing though, wanting to up pH but using ketapang leaves at the same time!  :Roll Eyes:

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## Neondagger

> Breeding?? If I have to wear long johns and sweater to bed, I'd rather sit next to my radiator, keeping cozy!!
> 25°C is plenty fine. 23°C just make your chiller work harder.
> 
> It's amusing though, wanting to up pH but using ketapang leaves at the same time!


 I using a artica chiller, so I think is alright if I work my chiller hard just for my CRS, I dun think it is a bad thing right.
anyway I change my chiller to chiller during 24.6°C 

Well, I usually add water straight from the distill bottles. But cause I left 10 bottles of water, I pour all of them into my new gex tank, It was waiting for the partition before I put in my bettas. I place ketapang leave as the water was for my betta but because the partition is not ready, I use it as a sump tank for my crs. I ran out of distill water for wc, so as I am urgent, I added water from that tank to my crs tank. My current tank dun have ketapang leave or coral chips. but my ph is down to 5.7. dun want to rush my wc so I will do a 20% wc during the weekends. 
I am trying and learning every single day, I might do more mistakes than many others who started but I am trying so please do stop aiming your darts at me. I will accept all the constructive remarks and scolding, I will take it as motivation for my passion and continue to learn. 
I thanks all the people in this forum who helped me and please continue to help me!!! 
My passion is strong and I will not give up!!!! 
I am trying hard and been reading forums everyday. My currently crs is living well all the colour quite solid.(sure not as solid when the gh is  :Cool:  but still solid.

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## magpie

Ph 5.7 is still alright for CRS. Don't try to adjust the water parameter, keep it stable and do weekly wc will do.

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