# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  need advice on my first tank

## aryanggie

hi all..i'm new here...in my country indonesia!aquascaping has been very popular now,but,the LSF here are not so good at all!they only selling the whole thing without any info...otherwise,
i have some problems,last month i've bought 40 taiwan shrimp,its so small cause the seller told me that the small one eat algae better than the big one....but mysteriously,now they all gone!i don't know?are they eaten by other fish or what!hix!
i have this kind of fish.
-20 cardinals
-5 cory pandas
-LAE (it seems the big one)
-2 SAEs
-2 Otto
-5 guppys
-2 red mollies
-5 zebras slayer

and the plants are.
-java moss
-windelov
-e.tennelus
-e.marble queen
-Microsorum Lectus
-potamogeton blah2?
-riccia
-aponogeton crispus
-nymphae z .red
-crypts
-nymphae spatter dog
-e.parviflorus

my tank is 1m x 0,5m x 0,5m
i used sera floredepot as the fertilizer
with CO2 at 3b/s
with reactor
overflow filter with bioball
90 watt of lamps
and 18 wats of floraGlo
5 on - 4 off -5on mode ligting
The Temp is 24-28c
plus Jobes Stick Lush n Palm!
i used azoo liquid fertilizer(is there famous at spore?)

1.Where all my shrimp?  :Surprised:  (is anything okey?)
2.I bought a turbo snail.and they always dead in my tanks ,hiks Why
3.I cut all my big leaf of a.crispus because they all eaten by snail,but why the big leaf never grow again(seems it becomes dwarf or whatever)
4.The gravel looks so dirty!how to clean it?(with fish?)
5.my moss turn brown!why?
6.My Big SpatterDog suddenly dead n only the small leaf are comes?why?
7.is anything wrong with my tank?i haven't check my Ph n Kh n i dont use any CO2 indicator
8.oh yah!my tank is smell so fishy(likes the skin of fish)i don't know that word in english,hehe....whats the problem.... 
please ...help me!
9.what about LSF in spore?are there good n professional?
how many LSF specialiting in aquascape are there in spore?
(in my city,Bandung..theres only 5 LSF that sell aquascaping tools n plants

regards

anggie
Sorry for my bad english(i got only 8 out of ten at my report book) :wink: 



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## shortman

Welcome to the forum. :-)

I will try to answer you question.
I think LSF is LFS ie local fish store.

1.Where all my shrimp?  :Surprised:  (is anything okey?)
Possible all gone(dead/food for fish) or hiding in the plants.

2.I bought a turbo snail.and they always dead in my tanks ,hiks Why
Water condition could be very bad.

3.I cut all my big leaf of a.crispus because they all eaten by snail,but why the big leaf never grow again(seems it becomes dwarf or whatever)
Likely your plant go into a state of stunk.

4.The gravel looks so dirty!how to clean it?(with fish?)
Any picture to show?

5.my moss turn brown!why?
Fish load is too high. :-(

6.My Big SpatterDog suddenly dead n only the small leaf are comes?why?
Not too sure about this question.

7.is anything wrong with my tank?i haven't check my Ph n Kh n i dont use any CO2 indicator
I don't check my CO2/PH/KH/GH/NO3/NO4/NH4 at all.
Cause can't find a good one to get good reading.

8.oh yah!my tank is smell so fishy(likes the skin of fish)i don't know that word in english,hehe....whats the problem.... 
Could be cause by fish waste.
How long you have the setup?
Was tank cycled?

9.what about LSF in spore?are there good n professional?
Yes there are.

how many LSF specialiting in aquascape are there in spore?
(in my city,Bandung..theres only 5 LSF that sell aquascaping tools n plants
Not too sure how many.

Hope it help you.

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## keehoe

Welcome to our forum. I am not sure about indonesia, but i think the LFS in Singapore are generally OK. With a few of them really master in the trade. A lot of our forum members are very experience in planted tank. 
But i am not one of them ^^. I am having the same problem like you do and i am trying to find out why. So far all my shrimp in the planted tank can't survife longer than 3 days. But snails seems to be doing fine.

Did you wash your gravel before putting them in tank? I think that is one of the mistake i made that might have cause the problem. Going to redo this weekend. Will update once i confirm the cause of my problem in my tank.

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## timebomb

Anggie,

Welcome to the forum. First of all, before I attempt to answer your questions, I have to say it's generally quite difficult to know what's wrong with someone's tank unless we see a picture. Imagine a doctor trying to diagnose a medical problem without seeing the patient. That said.......




> 1.Where all my shrimp?  (is anything okey?)


It could be your shrimps are hiding. Shrimps do that when they're new to a tank and they can hide so well you won't be able to see a single one of them. Or it could also be they're all dead, in which case, you should see some dead bodies. As far as I know, whether they're big or small, algae-eating shrimps from Taiwan do not really eat algae. They are scavengers. They eat dead bodies and rotting plants but generally, they're won't help much with algae-control.




> 2.I bought a turbo snail.and they always dead in my tanks ,hiks Why


I have never heard of a Turbo snail so I can't tell you why they die in your tanks. But snails are generally quite tough creatures. If they always die in your tank, then I would say there's something seriously wrong. Either that, or the Turbo snail doesn't like water  :Laughing:  Is a Turbo snail so called because it can move very fast?




> 3.I cut all my big leaf of a.crispus because they all eaten by snail,but why the big leaf never grow again(seems it becomes dwarf or whatever)


The _Aponogeton crispus_ is one of the easiest _Aponogetons_ to grow. What snails do you have besides the Turbo? As far as I know, the common snails we have in our tanks like Ramshorn, Pond and Malaysian Trumpet Snail won't eat aquatic plants. 




> 4.The gravel looks so dirty!how to clean it?(with fish?)


We don't usually clean our gravel but occasionally, we vacuum it. There's always a lot of muck in the gravel but it shouldn't appear to be dirty. I suspect the filter you are using isn't any good. It's best to use an external cannister filter. Are Eheims available in Indonesia?




> 5.my moss turn brown!why?


Our mosses sometimes turn brown too and it's a mystery to us just as much as it is to you. Your temperatures are quite low so that can't be the cause. Besides liquid fertiliser, do you add any other chemicals to your tank? When I change my filter hose to copper recently, all my mosses turned brown. I do believe a change in water parameters can kill mosses.




> 6.My Big SpatterDog suddenly dead n only the small leaf are comes?why?


I don't know what's a Big SpatterDog but the _Nuphar japonicum_ is sometimes known as a Japanese Spatterdock. Is this the plant you have?




> 7.is anything wrong with my tank?i haven't check my Ph n Kh n i dont use any CO2 indicator


From the problems you have described, there could be something dead wrong with your tank but we can't help you unless you show us a picture or you tell us your water parameters accurately. But even without test kits and all, you can have a successful tank. I never use test kits myself. I suspect there's something seriously wrong with the way your tank is setup but I can't pinpoint the problem without a picture.




> 8.oh yah!my tank is smell so fishy(likes the skin of fish)i don't know that word in english,hehe....whats the problem.... 
> please ...help me!


Planted tanks shouldn't smell, not unless there's a lot of dead fish in the tank. Blue-Green algae gives off an unusual smell but it isn't a fishy smell. If the smell bothers you, you can remove it by adding a bag of carbon to your filter.




> 9.what about LSF in spore?are there good n professional?
> how many LSF specialiting in aquascape are there in spore?


The LFSs (local fish shops) in Singapore are many. Some are quite professional and their owners knowledgeable but they are the minority. What with the internet and forums such as this one, who needs professional help anyway?  :Laughing: 




> Sorry for my bad english(i got only 8 out of ten at my report book) :wink:


Yours is poor English, not bad. Poor English we can tolerate as we understand that not everyone is familiar with the language. Bad English is when people deliberately mangle the language like writing "u" for "you" or "n" for "and". That we don't tolerate. Please try and spell correctly even if you can't write properly. Thank you.

Loh K L

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## FC

anggie.

Welcome to killies.com!

The little taiwan shrimps are good algae eaters and they are one of the few species that do not eat on plants. My favourite. Given enough hiding places like carpeted ground, they reproduce fast.

Your lighting is about 0.5 watts per litre. It is considered low-medium intensity. The overflow filter (trickled filter?) will waste the CO2 considerably, you may need more than 3b/s if you are running on/off solenoid that turn on together with the light. Need not do the salsa method, turn on for about 7 hours instead.

Use Jobes Stick only if you have deep substrate (3" or more) and place it only on hungry large rossette or grouped stem plants and tuck it deeply to prevent leaks. azoo liquid fertilizer is common here but I have not used it before.

Ramhorn snails are very benificial to planted tank.

The gravel can be easily cleaned using gravel vacuum tube.

Your plants reaction seems to suggest insufficient CO2, check the KH and PH.

A healthy tank water should be odourless. There are 2 reasons for the smell:
1) the tank has too much debris from overfeeding (too many fishes?)
2) the bios filteration media is insufficient - use larger filter
3) insufficient oxygen in the tank water to support the benificial baterias
4) your plants are not growing fast enough to absorb the nutrients - need more light, CO2, balanced nutrients.

There are enough planted tank fish shop in S'pore to get what you need and see what you wanted to see. However, not everyone is professional and willing to spent time to explain to customer.

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## BFG

Turbo snail are mainly used in the marine aquaria. If what you have are really turbo snail, then you have bought the wrong snail. How big is the snail anyway? 

Mohamad Rohaizal.

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## aryanggie

Thanx Guys

@shortman



> 1.Where all my shrimp? (is anything okey?) 
> Possible all gone(dead/food for fish) or hiding in the plants


*i just founded again my shrimp!i think you are right,the y only hid in the plants or in the driftwood!thanx god!but they dont give me any baby!(i often founded the one with eggs in their legs)hix2...what should the tank goes to hatches baby shrimp?*




> I will try to answer you question. 
> I think LSF is LFS ie local fish store


_hehe,sorry_




> 8.oh yah!my tank is smell so fishy(likes the skin of fish)i don't know that word in english,hehe....whats the problem.... 
> Could be cause by fish waste. 
> How long you have the setup? 
> Was tank cycled?



*i just add some active carbon.and i think it reduces the smell...its okey to use active carbon?*


@keehoe
hehe, sory i cant answer your pm....hehe,but i can find my shrimp now!thx

@timebomb



> Welcome to the forum. First of all, before I attempt to answer your questions, I have to say it's generally quite difficult to know what's wrong with someone's tank unless we see a picture. Imagine a doctor trying to diagnose a medical problem without seeing the patient. That said.......


im so sorry!but i only had some pics of my tank that taked by my cellphone camera!the quality is so poor!i think i have to borrow my friends digcam....btw,how to insert an image in this forum(sorry)




> I have never heard of a Turbo snail so I can't tell you why they die in your tanks. But snails are generally quite tough creatures. If they always die in your tank, then I would say there's something seriously wrong. Either that, or the Turbo snail doesn't like water Is a Turbo snail so called because it can move very fast?


hehe,some LFS in my town called tiger/zebra snail as turbo snail.(because they eat algae in "turbo" mode...hehe)i dont know so!the LFS told me that!




> The Aponogeton crispus is one of the easiest Aponogetons to grow. What snails do you have besides the Turbo? As far as I know, the common snails we have in our tanks like Ramshorn, Pond and Malaysian Trumpet Snail won't eat aquatic plants


 i dont know!but i founded that there are another snail that eat my plants,they looks like mini tiger snail,and move very fast(i think).maybe my apono become dwarf beacause i gave it many jobes stick ( 6 sticks) hix . now iam going to plant an a.ulvaceous (need advice on this plants please)




> The LFSs (local fish shops) in Singapore are many. Some are quite professional and their owners knowledgeable but they are the minority. What with the internet and forums such as this one, who needs professional help anyway?


you are right!thanx god i found this forum! 

@fc

thanx fc!






> Ramhorn snails are very benificial to planted tank.


is it?what is benefical?(it is good or bad?)sorry......  :Opps:  


@mohammad

asswr.wb. mohammad




> Turbo snail are mainly used in the marine aquaria. If what you have are really turbo snail, then you have bought the wrong snail. How big is the snail anyway?


hehe,the snail . Turbo a.k.a Tiger a.k.a Zebra . their size are looks like a marble....CMIIW

Thanks Guys!

oh yup!
so the question are

1. it is good to spend some ramhorn snails?how if they grow very fast and fullfill my tank? :wink: 

2.i need advice of taking care aponogeton ulvaceous(was it right that they used to have dormant period?)

3is it good to use active carbon on planted tanks?(some LFS said YES , and the other said NO)

Regards!

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## FC

> 1. it is good to spend some ramhorn snails?how if they grow very fast and fullfill my tank? :wink: 
> 2. i need advice of taking care aponogeton ulvaceous(was it right that they used to have dormant period?)
> 3. is it good to use active carbon on planted tanks?(some LFS said YES , and the other said NO)


1. Ramhorns are big enough to catch them if you wish to reduce the population. Their reproduction rate is much slower than "button" snails.
2. My last A. ulvaceus has no dormant period. It like fert inserts at the root, good range CO2 and water flow.
3. Yes if you suspect there is heavy metals and wish to remove them. No, it is not needed otherwise.

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## shortman

Q&A 
=== 
1. it is good to spend some ramhorn snails?how if they grow very fast and fullfill my tank? Wink 

I at first don't believe the ramhorn snails are good until I try it one day. 
I used to have spot algae problem in the tank near the substract level but after I added one ramhorn snail the spot algae reduce and so does my thread algae. Therefore I would said it is good to have. 

BTW, I get the ramhorn snail from Ronwill.  :Cool:  Thanks Ronwill. 


2.i need advice of taking care aponogeton ulvaceous(was it right that they used to have dormant period?) 
Yes. It go dormant after fast grow, for me I keep relocating the plant and cut the root to slow the growth. 

It can go dormancy for up to two months at this time just transfer it to dark area. 


3 is it good to use active carbon on planted tanks?(some LFS said YES , and the other said NO) 

LFS is correct, in another word yes and no. 
Active carbon only work for a certain amount of time after which it should not be re-used and need to throw away. It could also absorb good elements from the water that is good for plant. ie iron. 

I forget to mention in the previous note that a better way to remove smell is the use of UV light. It has the same effect as to carbon block, good and bad. 

Hope the above help you.  :Very Happy:

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## WebberMoore

I have tons of Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS) in my planted tank that I'm considering of selling some of these active yet valuable critters!
They have an appetite for algae on your aquarium walls and driftwood. These MTS have been so helpful in not only keeping algae concentrations in check but also
keeping my substrate dynamic.

Due to their characteristic behaviour of burrowing into substrate (even tough and rugged gravel), these critters are quick and efficient in picking out
mass of uneaten food that reach and get wedged in the substrate. Moreover, this burrowing behaviour is truly useful in ensuring that your substrate is loosened up and thus encouraging
delicate root growth. Toxic gases produced in anaerobic pockets of decaying matter in the substrate are hence also avoided with the constant loosening of aquarium substrate when the MTS
explore deep into the substrate for scraps or just to seek some refuge (they re more active at night but that doesnt apply for my case!) 

What started to be a single accidental introduction has led to become a really nice home for the snails and my aquarium plants alike. I saw a single but sizeable one on the aquarium wall when I first set my tank up, but 3months later, one became eight separate individuals. Apparently, after much research, these MTS reproduce by parenthenogenesis which means all of them are female and give birth asexually.
MTS are livebearing, meaning they do not lay eggs, interesting fact given that I had very much thought most invertebrates like these lay eggs to reproduce.  :Shocked: 

I personally find MTS a truly useful addition to my tank over those other snails which probably die so easily(they have problems trying to establish a sustainable colony) or have problems with puncturing your precious aquarium plants. While MTS doesnt score exactly much in the aesthetic department, they re probably the employee of the year in aquarium management.
Nevertheless, while their presence in a planted tank is harmless and in fact beneficial, their prolific success may cause fish keepers to feel a little annoyed or worried that their population will be uncontrollable. This is one critter that i dont mind overtaking my tank, but due to aesthetic reasons, controlled feeding will keep their numbers capped and to those who plan to keep the difficult and petty 
brackish pufferfish, a colony of MTS will be able to sustain their ferocious appetite for invertebrates.

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## Shadow

I personally against MTS and other snail, it can multiply out of control  :Opps:

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## darrylloh

congrats on your first tank, do you have more photos?

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