# Other Aquarium Forums > Fish Care, Nutrition and Water Management >  OceanFree anti-whitespot safe for plants and shrimps?

## shaman

My clown loach hit with ich, I am planning to dose Oceanfree anti-whitespot, does it affect the yamato & plants? Thanks!  :Grin:

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## hii

i think it will, normally the instruction will ask you to remove filter media before use cause will kill the bacteria .... plant maybe ok, yamato no problem lar .... 

my neon tetra also have white spot and I put them into a tub and drop some anti whote spot, once i drop the fish react wired and after 20 mins, they decided go to heaven..  :Sad:

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## michael lai

Hi Shaman,
My recent experience with Ich and clown loach is #[email protected]%^&*#. They are damn hard to cure when infected with it. Those medication strong enough usually is harmful to plants and shrimps. My advise is to quarantine the infected fish immediately. You have a much higher chance to save them, trust me.  :Smile:

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## Johnc

I use Danios Anti-Ich. So far i have very little proble with the plants. One of the crypt developed a few bluish spots, but they were gone in a few days. 

Also, in my experience, you would have a higher chance of your fish surviving if you treat it in the tank rather than taking it out for 3 reasons: (1) Fishes that are stressed do very badly with ich (indeed the smaller fishes like tetra already weaken by ich could be killed simply by transfering them to the quarantine tank). (2) The smaller volume of the quarantine tank often mean that if the ich parasites are not eliminate they would have a much greater chance of re-infecting the fish. (3) If you treat the fish in a quarantine tank, the parasite in your tank will remain to reinfect your fish.

I read somewhere that fishes that have been infected with ich will get about 6 months immunity, so you can expect an outbreak again when the fish is stressed somewhere down the road.

/John

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## ms

Hi,
I used Mardel Coppersafe, recommended by one of the experts here. It cured the white spots from my Rummy nose. - No causuties!

FYI, I 'underdose' the portion as the instruction says that it may harm plants. With this, I do not have any problems with my plants.

Good luck.

MS

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## sage08

I recently used befuran on my quarantine tank as i notice some shite spots on my rummy n one of the ottos. One otto jumped out in the dead of the night and had to scrape it off the ground in the morning. 24 hours later the white spots dissapear but water turned murky. (I do not have a filter in the quarantine tank). Having said tht, not sure if they are really white spot after all as they dissapear too quickly. 

Heating up the water to 30 degrees will be helpful. Since the Q tank is too small for my heater, i can't possibly heat up the water.

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## juggler

The plants will be affected somewhat. A few months ago when I was treating my tank for Ich, my Sagittaria platyphylla dropped leaves. The Sword plants also withered some leaves.

I earlier used the Ocean Free brand. When it ran out I bought German brand one which claim to be plant-safe. Can't remember the name now. Can check when I get back.

Also, I added salt to the tank. Not sure if it is the high salt concentration or the medication or both affecting the plant growth.

Some folks here recommended just adding salt to cure ich.

For fish, some casualties on the weaker and smaller ones.

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## sonique

from wat i noe, salt is not recommended to be added to planted tanks rite??

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## shaman

Thanks all for your kind help. So far I have been ok with Oceanfree product, without plants. 

But now I run planted tank, so I scared my plants will die. Catching them is a headache. Loach run damn fast. I tried pump lotsa CO2 until they wanna suffocate and come out of water to breathe then I try to catch them. Its really a pain to catch those creatures. Haha!

These few days I am quite busy. I will go and catch them again. White spot wont kill them so quick I hope.  :Grin:

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## juggler

It is very hard to catch clown loach in a planted tank. I gave up catching my 4 clown loaches until I tore down the planted tank [for an upgrade] a few years later. And even then I could only catch them when the water left a few cm high.  :Smile: 

I my case, I tried adding salt and medication to cure the ich. I used 1 tablespoon salt per 5 gallon water. I think I read different salt amounts elsewhere. Try searching in AQ as well. Some do not recommend any medication and just rely on salt.

Good luck.

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## hirowen

I use salt treatment for my cardinal tetras for white spot. it do helps but if u have snail in ur tank, you gotta avoid this.

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## Justikanz

If you have ornamental shrimps and snails in the tank and your fish kena ich... I'd say forget the treatment... Unless you are ok with replacing all the inverts... Even the coppersafe medications kill inverts... Salt most likely too...

But for plants, most medication will state amount to not cause harm to plants...

Anyway, personally, I dun medicate anymore...

Oh, please do not take the fish out and medicate on that fish with ich only... It does not work... the ich parasite could still remain in the display tank and attack the recovered but weakened fish when it is introduced back or attack the remaining ones in the tank...

You can fish out all fish, medicate in a separate tank, keep the display tank medication-free and fish free for 1 or 2 months and then re-introduce all the fish... Inverts are safe with the ich parasites...  :Smile:

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## shaman

Does the solution contains copper?

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## amlim

> If you have ornamental shrimps and snails in the tank and your fish kena ich... I'd say forget the treatment... Unless you are ok with replacing all the inverts... Even the coppersafe medications kill inverts... Salt most likely too...
> 
> But for plants, most medication will state amount to not cause harm to plants...
> 
> Anyway, personally, I dun medicate anymore...
> 
> Oh, please do not take the fish out and medicate on that fish with ich only... It does not work... the ich parasite could still remain in the display tank and attack the recovered but weakened fish when it is introduced back or attack the remaining ones in the tank...
> 
> You can fish out all fish, medicate in a separate tank, keep the display tank medication-free and fish free for 1 or 2 months and then re-introduce all the fish... Inverts are safe with the ich parasites...


how you cure if you don't medicate? thanks.

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## Justikanz

It's just my opinion... I dun medicate and let the fish recover by themselves. A lot of people will disagree but I'd prefer not medicating cos 

1) There is a chance of introducing the wrong medication or overdose. Underdosing will also not be effective.
2) There is a chance of wrong diagnosis.
3) It is difficult to catch the affected fish (except for situations where it is absolutely to treat the whole tank)
4) If dosing whole tank, there's just too much water in my case (~400L!!)
5) Most, if not all, medication affects plants and inverts, which I value. This links to point 1 cos an overdose can kill plants and inverts...
6) After the disease is cured, there is a need to introduce carbon to remove the residual medication.

Ok, the above are just based on my PERSONAL opinion...

To each his own.  :Smile: 

Thanks.

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## michael lai

Hi Thomas,
KeKe...Ok let me introduce the 'Nature's way. I also don't medicate now. those that are heavily infected, I ..xxx...them, it's sort of a survival of the fittest thing. I'm trying out this method now and so far it works, those that are not infected in the school have not shown any signs of the disease yet. It's a costly exercise but it really weeds out the weak, saves you alot of time and trouble, don't have to worry about carbon and your water turning blue. :Grin:  

PS: the advise is free, it works for me and it might for you. But disease spreads in many ways, if your water parameters sucks. I think no method will save the inhabitants. That you should be working on, preventive is better than cure as the old saying goes.... :Smile:

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## DEA

if you don't medicate, the ich tomites will be present in the water for a LONG LONG LONG LONG (i dunno how long exactly so i just put 4 x LONG) time
so the next time you muck around in the tank, you risk causing a new epidemic
why not just cure it once and for all and not have to think about whether the disease will come back?
i don't like to use the chemicals in the market for treating ich, i'd rather use salt
very friendly cf all the rest

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## Justikanz

The ich protozoans will be introduced into the tank with new fish, and to a lesser degree, sometimes new plants and the water that they come in (and who knows, maybe even from the tap). So, as long as you will be introducing anything into the tank, there is not a chance the ich protozoans will not be re-introduced into the tank.  :Razz: 

Cheers...

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## michael lai

Hi DEA,
I understand your concerns, bro but like Juz said, we will always introduce something into the tank when we add something. Like, there is no substituition for live food to bring out the best colours of your pride and joy.(anyway that's my opinion). Then again, I've never tried the salt method. I have tried countless medication since AUG, trust me but they have mixed results, generally no good. If its not too much of a problem, maybe you could share your salt method. Like tank size,species,dosage and duration, it would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Mike :Smile:

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## valice

i actually agree wif micheal abt letting nature taking its course... since there is talk tat once a fish survive one whitespot attack, it sort of develops an immune system to it... so maybe u dun have to worry in future abt them getting white spot shld u happen to introduce anything...

i am sort of saying from experience... after 12 deaths from the recent outbreak  :Crying: , i am left wif pretty healthy looking, eating well fishes... maybe my tank condition has stabilised...  :Roll Eyes:

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## shaman

Hi all bro, thanks for sharing. 

My clown loach has healed. I used oceanfree anti-itch. No plants is hurt.
I dose half the amount suggested and the loach took 5 days to cure. The temp is 25 celcius. From my little experience with fish, itch strikes when the fish is stressed. If they are happy, no problem. They are stressed because I play with Co2. Pump so much that they faint literally, concussed and lie upside down struggling for air.

Just watch out for fish just bought from lfs, those comes with itch with spread to others in the tank.

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## DEA

keep the treatment up for another week to make sure you get all of it
if you don't they might just come back to haunt you again

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## wasabi8888

so did you take your loaches out? or dose in the tank itself?

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## shaman

I dose in the tank itself. If you dont wish to risk too much, just dose half the amount suggested. It will still heal but, just slower. 
I dose half the amount suggested. then after 2 days, change some water, dose again. Watch for the fish's condition. If the itch doesnt go away, dose slightly more. With medication, I am yet to lose any fish due to itch. So, no worries...

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## wasabi8888

no effect to plants rite?

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## shaman

nope for my case. Tonina, downoi, moss are ok.

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## amlim

> Hi Thomas,
> KeKe...Ok let me introduce the 'Nature's way. I also don't medicate now. those that are heavily infected, I ..xxx...them, it's sort of a survival of the fittest thing. I'm trying out this method now and so far it works, those that are not infected in the school have not shown any signs of the disease yet. It's a costly exercise but it really weeds out the weak, saves you alot of time and trouble, don't have to worry about carbon and your water turning blue. 
> 
> PS: the advise is free, it works for me and it might for you. But disease spreads in many ways, if your water parameters sucks. I think no method will save the inhabitants. That you should be working on, preventive is better than cure as the old saying goes....



err.... xxx = kxxx ?

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## Justikanz

> i actually agree wif micheal abt letting nature taking its course... since there is talk tat once a fish survive one whitespot attack, it sort of develops an immune system to it... so maybe u dun have to worry in future abt them getting white spot shld u happen to introduce anything...
> 
> i am sort of saying from experience... after 12 deaths from the recent outbreak , i am left wif pretty healthy looking, eating well fishes... maybe my tank condition has stabilised...


Hi Vincent, the fish will develop some immunity but it is not for life... Literature states ~6months immunity or something like dat... Then if the fish is stressed, the cycle starts...  :Opps:  Let me try to find the literature... But no, it is not a journal paper...  :Opps:

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## DEA

i think that's likely an anecodotal paper
i've seen my friends with recurring ich many times over just 3 months
because they stop dosing when they see the white spots diminish, the life cycle isn't completely broken, so the ich just goes nuts again

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## Justikanz

Oops, made a mistake...  :Embarassed:  No idea where I saw the duration... They state that the immunity is developed 'somehow'...  :Opps: 

And yes, the medication, if any, has to be completed over at least 2 life cycles of the ich protozoan... That should be 2-4 months I think... Just like antibiotics, people tend to forget about them once they get better...

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## DEA

i _think_ (think only har, cannot remember) the life cycle is only around 1~2 wks?
dosing for 1 mth should be very safe already

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## Justikanz

Heh heh... I cannot recall also and too tired when reached home to reach for the books...  :Embarassed:   :Opps:  Got to have this confirmed...  :Smile:

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## valice

think the most impt thing is to keep our fishes happy and not stress them... since stress seems to be the main course of illness and parasidic attacks...  :Smile:

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## michael lai

:Opps:  Amlim, that word shall not be spoken....... :Opps:

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## Justikanz

Ok, checked 'The Manual of Fish Health' by Dr Chris Andrews et.al.. In it , it is reported that the ich protozoan's lifespan can last from between 3-4 days to a couple of weeks, depending on the water temperature. The lower the temperature, the longer the cycle. Thus, treatment is usually coupled with an increase of temperature.

Cheers!  :Smile:

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## amlim

> Amlim, that word shall not be spoken.......



oopss... sorry... let me edit my post...  :Embarassed:

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## michael lai

Yo hi Amlim, don't have to edit your post. there is a word for it, Euthan....something. Anyway how's the going? I'm a clown loach lover too but everytime I get them to 5-6 inches big. Something always.....sigh..anyway, the battle between Ich and us goes on. :Smile: ( you know how long it takes to grow a clown loach from 3cm to that size?)

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## Justikanz

Michael: Euthanasia.  :Smile:  (Mercy killing)

I dun even euthanize... I just let them be...  :Confused:  I dun like to kill, already killed enough when learning in the earlier days... Just treat it as their Karma lor...  :Opps:

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## amlim

> Yo hi Amlim, don't have to edit your post. there is a word for it, Euthan....something. Anyway how's the going? I'm a clown loach lover too but everytime I get them to 5-6 inches big. Something always.....sigh..anyway, the battle between Ich and us goes on.( you know how long it takes to grow a clown loach from 3cm to that size?)



my remaining 2 clown loaches died liao.. now cycling my tank. will be getting a few by this week.... 3 cm or 3 inch? if 3 inch, i think at least 3 to 4 years to grow to 5-6 inches... if 3 cm, at least 5 years? 

you still keeping cl? what you feed them? my previous batch of cl damn kuai... they take pellets and quite tame coz when i go near tank, the whole bunch will come and check me out.. my daughter and i miss them.. sigh..

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## michael lai

Hi Amlim,
It took me 6 years to get them to that size. No, I'm not keeping them now but I'll be back. Wife nagging. Anyway, my affiliation with the critters started way back in the 80s when I caught 1 about 25cm at Taman Negara( fishing ). Err.. it was released of course :Grin:  but it was so 'cute' their eyes action are like cories. My batch of 12 was very dear to me as well :Sad:

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## amlim

> Hi Amlim,
> It took me 6 years to get them to that size. No, I'm not keeping them now but I'll be back. Wife nagging. Anyway, my affiliation with the critters started way back in the 80s when I caught 1 about 25cm at Taman Negara( fishing ). Err.. it was released of course but it was so 'cute' their eyes action are like cories. My batch of 12 was very dear to me as well


Wah !! 25 cm... I'll just break the law and pocket the loach  :Angel:  

then most likely end up in pudu jail... hahahaha .. i agree that their eye actions are cute. sometimes looks like they wink at you or roll their eyes at you.  :Razz:

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## michael lai

> Wah !! 25 cm... I'll just break the law and pocket the loach  
> 
> then most likely end up in pudu jail... hahahaha .. i agree that their eye actions are cute. sometimes looks like they wink at you or roll their eyes at you.


I was already breaking the law, Amlim. It is still a protected park but I released because my guide said it taste like shit :Laughing:  . Anyway, I'm sorry I drifted from your tread, Shaman. Apologies.

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