# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Cryptocoryne Club >  What plant tank methods do you use?

## bclee

Which method do you use for you planted tank?

Express your views...

BC  :Smile:

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## vinz

What if we have more then one tank?

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## bclee

You can choose option 3 if you use both methods...


BC

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## Rupert

My tank is High-tech method (CO2 enriched) and High light [MH & FL] and certainly appreciate the speed in which things happen, speed is useful in it takes you to the destination that you desire faster, but what happens when you are comfortable with what you have, how do you slow down and enjoy the view? 

I have been thinking recently about a hybrid approach as I am not far away [I hope] from having the scape I want. I will use CO2 to control my pH via a controller, so would keep that. The thought that I have been toying with is progressively reducing my MH [300w] time to just the minimum or off but keeping the FL [60w] on as normal, reducing the water changes, once a week dosing.

It might take a month or two to slow down  anyway just wondering...

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## michael lai

Hi BC,
Its both for me. The learning curve is both ways, what the basics is and what the hi-tech could offer.  :Smile:

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## blufinn

i am using co2 with mh. plant grow better mah  :Smile:

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## bclee

I started off my hobby with only CO2 enriched tank. I dose fertilisers twice per week, change water weekly, trim the plants fortnightly, refill my CO2 tank quarterly...

After a while, I find it a bit too tedious, especially when work and family commitments demand more of my attention. When I slack in my routine, my tank turns either into a jungle of interwinding plants or an algae farm.

Finally, about 9 mth ago, I turn totally to non-CO2. It became much easier after the initial transition. I also found that I can still grow almost all of the plants that I grew in a high tech tank. My tank stays as good looking, if not better looking continually with a lot lesser pruning... and of course, almost no water change and very little fertilisation.

I am completely sold to the non-CO2 way...

 :Evil:  Come to the DARK SIDE...

BC

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## loupgarou

mine is a high tech low maintenance tank.

co2, chiller, ph controller, filters, ada, fluorite. low maintenance plants like hairgrass, crypts (and erm hottonia).

I change water once a week (thereabouts) and use floreal and equilibrium as fert ,dump in some kno3 now and then.

initially I thought my bba problems were due to (nutrient defiency/not enough light), but it turned out to be too much light, raising my mh lights by another one feet totally eliminated bba (and green spot is so much less)

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## baranne

> Finally, about 9 mth ago, I turn totally to non-CO2. It became much easier after the initial transition. I also found that I can still grow almost all of the plants that I grew in a high tech tank. My tank stays as good looking, if not better looking continually with a lot lesser pruning... and of course, almost no water change and very little fertilisation.
> 
> BC


Hi BC,

Did you have any critters in the tanks? Can you go without water change if you have them? 

I am tempted by the *DARK SIDE*   :Evil:  but I am concerned if they would survive...

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## bclee

> Hi BC,
> 
> Did you have any critters in the tanks? Can you go without water change if you have them? 
> 
> I am tempted by the *DARK SIDE*   but I am concerned if they would survive...


In my 15-gal tank (2-ft), I have 30+ fishes and 10+ shrimps: 1 ram, 1 SAE, 10+ cardinal tetra, 3 cherry barbs, 5 T. espei, 8 corys, 8 otos, 10 yamato shrimp, 1 malayan shrimp. OK so far.

BTW... I have lotsa plants in there.

BC

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## baranne

wow... you sure have a lot of fishes... for my 1.5 ft I had thought my 7 tetras, 5 rummies, 2 otos and 10+ cherry shrimp are too high a bioload... seems like I may be able to push for more...  :Razz:

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## Rupert

Isn't High tech and Low tech on the same continuum and that one chooses too stay in the fast lane [high tech] until they are comfortable with what they have, then moves /transitions over to the slow lane [Low Tech or the DarkSide- which I thought was saltwater?] as a means of maintaining the scape or environment of choice for longer?

I am not suggesting High or Low tech is better, but in the aquarists toolbox of tools & choices CO2, No CO2, MHs, FLs Dosing or less Dosing are used as simple control mechanisms that suit the tank or individual circumstances at the time. The tricky part is probably the transition from one regime to another and knowing when and how to transition?

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## StanChung

low tech sounds very interesting, have only been successful with the windelovs and some mosses [mostly ferns] 
slow growth becomes a bane and makes me wanna rescape all the time, while fast growth does change the landscape and is fun for the fish. not fun when it kills the fg plants. glosso etc. i mean tall ones taking over top cover, preventing light from reaching the short needy ones.

the only truth is i think you do what you can afford. time money effort. 
but first must have love  :Grin:

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## Green Baron

> I started off my hobby with only CO2 enriched tank. I dose fertilisers twice per week, change water weekly, trim the plants fortnightly, refill my CO2 tank quarterly...
> 
> After a while, I find it a bit too tedious, especially when work and family commitments demand more of my attention. When I slack in my routine, my tank turns either into a jungle of interwinding plants or an algae farm.
> 
> Finally, about 9 mth ago, I turn totally to non-CO2. It became much easier after the initial transition. I also found that I can still grow almost all of the plants that I grew in a high tech tank. My tank stays as good looking, if not better looking continually with a lot lesser pruning... and of course, almost no water change and very little fertilisation.
> 
> I am completely sold to the non-CO2 way...
> 
>  Come to the DARK SIDE...
> ...


BC
Most of us have non-CO2 tank ( I have 4) but the plants we keep are usually slow growing green plants : anubias, moss, ferns, crypts, echi etc.

What plants do you keep in your no-CO2 tank and how much light are you using ?

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## bclee

> BC
> Most of us have non-CO2 tank ( I have 4) but the plants we keep are usually slow growing green plants : anubias, moss, ferns, crypts, echi etc.
> 
> What plants do you keep in your no-CO2 tank and how much light are you using ?



Tank dimension: 60cm x 30cm x 30cm (bowfront)
Volume: 60L
Lights: 51W (15W FL + 36W PL)
Plant list:
Anubius barteri var nana
Barclaya longifolia
Cryptocoryne albida
Cryptocoryne grifithii
Cryptocoryne ponterderiifolia
Cryptocoryne undulata
Cryptocoryne wendtii "green"
Cryptocoryne wendtii "brown"
Cryptocoryne wendtii "tropica"
Echinodorus tenellus
Eleocharis parvula(?) (hairgrass)
Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides
Hygrophila corymbosa "compact"
Lobelia cardinalis
Salvina natans
Vesicularia sp. "christmas"

BC

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## Green Baron

> Tank dimension: 60cm x 30cm x 30cm (bowfront)
> Volume: 60L
> Lights: 51W (15W FL + 36W PL)


That is more than 3W/G. With that much light and no CO2, don't you have algae problem ?

What is plant at the left back with long green leaves ? Jave Fern ?

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## bclee

> That is more than 3W/G. With that much light and no CO2, don't you have algae problem ?
> 
> What is plant at the left back with long green leaves ? Jave Fern ?


No algae problem. Many have the impression that non-CO2 tank got to have very low lights, that's not so true in my experience. However, if you do not get it right, you can get algae issues with high light.

The plants at the left back are Cryptocoryne albida.

BC

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## juggler

BC:

What about fertiliser dosing? Do you dose at all or just depends on fish food and fish waste?

I thought that with high lighting, plants metabolise faster and uses nutrients up very fast? And you are limiting CO2. Does that mean the uptake of the other nutrients become slowed down???

I don't seem to understand.

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## bclee

Yes I dose traces & KNO3 but very infrequently. I only do so when the plants exhibit deficiency.

Co2 seems to be the limiting component. Uptake of nutrients are much slower than with co2. 

I believe that algae growth is also limited by co2.

BC

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## juggler

As far as I know the relative importance are:

light >> CO2 >> macro-nutrients >> micro-nutrients

So if we limit CO2, we might as well lower the light?
Where are the plants getting the carbon source? Will it come a time where the high lighting forced the plants to use up the available carbon source and the other nutrients becomes available for algae to use? The algae may be floating and extract CO2 from the air ....

I am impressed by your results and thinking of switching my 5ft tank to low-tech. Can I just turn off the CO2 and lower the lighting?  :Smile:

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## Green Baron

I also find temperature a very important factor for planted tank. 
I have 2 low-tech tanks in my office and temp is 24~26C. Everything grows well there - green and lush. At home, I have 2 low tech tanks and temperature is 28~30 and the plants do not grow as lush and green as those in the office.

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## bclee

> I also find temperature a very important factor for planted tank. 
> I have 2 low-tech tanks in my office and temp is 24~26C. Everything grows well there - green and lush. At home, I have 2 low tech tanks and temperature is 28~30 and the plants do not grow as lush and green as those in the office.


Yes, temperature is an important factor too. I keep my tank at 26°C. Low temperature will help.

BC

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## bclee

> As far as I know the relative importance are:
> 
> light >> CO2 >> macro-nutrients >> micro-nutrients
> 
> So if we limit CO2, we might as well lower the light?
> Where are the plants getting the carbon source? Will it come a time where the high lighting forced the plants to use up the available carbon source and the other nutrients becomes available for algae to use? The algae may be floating and extract CO2 from the air ....
> 
> I am impressed by your results and thinking of switching my 5ft tank to low-tech. Can I just turn off the CO2 and lower the lighting?


The primary source of C will still be CO2 and maybe HCO3- for some plant species. The CO2 would be from my substrate (Onyx+peat) and fish food/wastes. I overfeed my fishes, usually there are leftovers. I keep surface turbulance down to minimum to prevent CO2 loss.

I would not be surprise that by the end of the day, the CO2 level will be zero or almost zero. It does not seems to affect the plants.

When I converted the tank from CO2 to non-CO2, I went through a hard time fighting off BGA and staghorn algae. (BBA do not seem to thrive in low CO2 environment. Most of them die off when I shut the CO2.) I started off with 36W PL. After anti-biotic treatment and introduction of yamato shrimps, the balance finally tip towards the plants. I barely can see any algae in my tank now. I had noticed that some of the plants in the shade that are not doing so well, and I up-ed the light to 51W, and all seems well.

BC

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## Plantbrain

I've been nagging folks to give this a go.

You can really amplify the non CO2 tank by adding a little SeaChem Eq once a week(say 1/8 teaspoon per 80 liters) and a little KNO3/Flourish(2mls)/KH2PO4.

I add about 10x less KNO3/KH2PO4 than a CO2 enriched tank. Soa small speck once a week is all the tank gets. 

Once a week dosing.
No water changes!!!!

I use Onyx sand and leonardite (looks like Onyx sand except large grained) and mulm from a pre-existing tank..

A small HOB filter, 2-3w/gal etc.

Key: pack the tank with plants from day one.

You can grow a wider variety using this method and have cleaner lookign tank do more with scaping versus the Diana Walstad soil method and fish food only.

I'll purge the tank once every 1-2 months and not dose for a week or two till I see some negative growth.

No need for a water change when things are growing slow and the nutrients levels are reduced.

It's a way cool method and you'll wonder why you ever used CO2 because the tank will so easy to deal once set up and running.

Things grow slower, the deficencies also occur much slower so you can catch it and make adjustments for the dosing.

Less pruning, the tank grows in and stays that way with minor pruning once a month etc.

If you keep more than 2-3 tanks, this is certainly a good way to go.

CO2 is production farming, non CO2 is gardening.
Patience and waiting for things to grow in is fun.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## |squee|

Tom, say if you want to push things along a little faster, do you add Seachem Excel? ( I recall a post made by you on this ), if so, what dose should I have?

Thanks,

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## bclee

> I've been nagging folks to give this a go.
> ...
> 
> It's a way cool method and you'll wonder why you ever used CO2 because the tank will so easy to deal once set up and running.
> 
> ...
> 
> CO2 is production farming, non CO2 is gardening.
> Patience and waiting for things to grow in is fun.
> ...


Hi Tom,

Can't agree with you more...  :Grin:  

However, it ain't too bad using soil + fish food, it can be as "clean" if done well, and it can go a long way on "cruise control" without much intervention. You are right that one can screw up big time with soil...  :Razz:  . Your method looks good and is definitely the "safer" way.

Thank you for contributing.  :Smile:  

BC

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## bclee

> Tom, say if you want to push things along a little faster, do you add Seachem Excel? ( I recall a post made by you on this ), if so, what dose should I have?
> 
> Thanks,


Adding Excel will provide an extra source of C. How much to add is not exactly a "magic" number? More C, more growth (provided plants are limited by C)... do the math, you will figure that out yourself.  :Wink:  

BC  :Smile:

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## Green Baron

Many of us switched from high tech to low maintenance/tech tank because we are sick of changing water (30% or even 50% with EI) and prune/replant the plants every week ! We would rather spend more time appreciating the tank or experimenting with aquatic plants (for those who are into gardening) ! So what most of us are looking for is not necessary no CO2 but low maintenance - i.e. preferably water change, replanting, dosing fert at most once a month. Pumping CO2 is a no brainer is it is automatic and need no manual intervention.

Of course there are people who are into low tech because they do not want to invest in expensive lighting and CO2 equipment.

So the question is if I have a high tech tank, what do I need to do to make the tank low maintenance assuming I will continue to pump CO2 into the tank ? Do I lower the light (to 1.5W/G) ? Do I reduce the fert dosage and if so how much and what should I dose?

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## bclee

> ...
> 
> So the question is if I have a high tech tank, what do I need to do to make the tank low maintenance assuming I will continue to pump CO2 into the tank ? Do I lower the light (to 1.5W/G) ? Do I reduce the fert dosage and if so how much and what should I dose?


Reducing light and stopping CO2 is the most direct way of slowing down the tank.

If you maintain CO2 injection, it is still going to drive the plant growth significantly. You will still need to add relatively large amount of fertilisers. When you are adding fertilisers in significant quantity, you can't avoid regular water change.

BTW, why would you still want to add CO2 when you want low maintenance?

BC

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## baranne

> Once a week dosing.
> No water changes!!!!
> 
> No need for a water change when things are growing slow and the nutrients levels are reduced.


Can you do the low tech method with fishes and assume that the plants would take care of the nitrates? How about the ammonia produced by the fishes and dead plants?

Do I have to stock my tank with fewer fishes for this to work?

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## bclee

> Can you do the low tech method with fishes and assume that the plants would take care of the nitrates? How about the ammonia produced by the fishes and dead plants?
> 
> Do I have to stock my tank with fewer fishes for this to work?


The plants will uptake the ammonia before nitrates.

It depends on your plant mass and health. Generally, yes, you might have to keep lesser fish.

But in my experience, I still managed to keep a quite heavy fish load in my low tech tank, because I fully pack it with plants. However, you need to know what's going on, otherwise, you might run in problems with either algae (likely to be BGA or green algae) problem or fish health problem.

BC

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## Green Baron

> Reducing light and stopping CO2 is the most direct way of slowing down the tank.
> 
> If you maintain CO2 injection, it is still going to drive the plant growth significantly. You will still need to add relatively large amount of fertilisers. When you are adding fertilisers in significant quantity, you can't avoid regular water change.
> 
> BTW, why would you still want to add CO2 when you want low maintenance?
> 
> BC


CO2 alone will not drive plant growth. However, plant still need carbon to grow. Many here have suggested dosing Seachem Excel to provide carbon in a low tech/maintenance tank. If I already have a CO2 system, why not just reduce the CO2 rate instead of manually dosing Seachem Excel ?

For a low maintenace tank, I would not want to dose ferteliser everyweek. 
So is converting to low tech simply a matter of reducing the CO2, fertiliser dosage and light ? 

You 'low tech' tank has very high light, no CO2 and very little fertiliser which puzzled me. I always thought such setup would have problem with alage. How often do you change your water ?

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## baranne

> The plants will uptake the ammonia before nitrates.
> 
> It depends on your plant mass and health. Generally, yes, you might have to keep lesser fish.
> 
> But in my experience, I still managed to keep a quite heavy fish load in my low tech tank, because I fully pack it with plants. However, you need to know what's going on, otherwise, you might run in problems with either algae (likely to be BGA or green algae) problem or fish health problem.
> 
> BC


Currently I have a 1.5 ft tank (45 x 27 x 26 cm) with about 80% covered with plants, though sparsely planted. Also, probably 40% of the space is taken up by a DW covered with java moss. I have 7 tetras, 5 rummies, 3 pencils, 2 otos and many shrimps inside the tank. Is this too high a bio-load to convert to low tech?

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## |squee|

This is getting off-topic.  :Smile:  

I suggest we post up a seperate thread for low-tech questions.

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## baranne

Sorry did not realise it...  :Razz:

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## Plantbrain

> Tom, say if you want to push things along a little faster, do you add Seachem Excel? ( I recall a post made by you on this ), if so, what dose should I have?
> 
> Thanks,


No, the point is to slown things down, adding Excel will speed the growth up.

You'll get about 5x faster growth with excel.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## bclee

> CO2 alone will not drive plant growth. However, plant still need carbon to grow. Many here have suggested dosing Seachem Excel to provide carbon in a low tech/maintenance tank. If I already have a CO2 system, why not just reduce the CO2 rate instead of manually dosing Seachem Excel ?
> 
> For a low maintenace tank, I would not want to dose ferteliser everyweek. 
> So is converting to low tech simply a matter of reducing the CO2, fertiliser dosage and light ? 
> 
> You 'low tech' tank has very high light, no CO2 and very little fertiliser which puzzled me. I always thought such setup would have problem with alage. How often do you change your water ?


Even in a low light tank, adding CO2 WILL drive up the plant growth.

In the low tech tank, C is usually the limiting factor. The idea of not introducing C is to slow down the plant growth. Thus, it greatly reduces the need for fertilisation and water change.

I increase the lighting level to enable myself to grow plants more densely particularly in the shaded areas. It is the same trick of keeping your plants healthy that prevents algae bloom.

BC

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## stcyrwm

I made the switch to "low maintenance" a couple months back. I took out the DIY CO2 and lowered lighting to 2 wpg. At first I did Excel, but growth was still too fast so I stopped that too. I dose with Flourish every week and with macros every other week. Everything continues to grow really well. Even my Riccia that I have read a hundred times needs high light and CO2 is still growing very healthy and spreading. I also have an individual Glosso plant that hitchhiked in on one of my other plants that has spread to about 10 stems and is staying low. Both tanks are heavily planted. I still have a few strands of thread algae I take out every week but I have finally beat the hair algae that drove me nuts in my 10 gallon tank. I have done no water changes in the 37 gallon and have taken a break from water changes in the 10 gallon now that the hair algae is gone. All the fishies are happy too.

Low maintenance fan,
Bill

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## Plantbrain

Well, folks get burned out after 20 some years of high tech growth speeds, we need to relax :Smile: 

I keep a few, but most are non CO2.

The thing is..........algae also grows slower in a non CO2 tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## Plantbrain

Adding less CO2 is not wise, you can try it, I only know one person that did well with that and they have nothing but easy to grow weeds and very high plant desnity.

It's going to cause issues generally unless you have low light and even then.
Excel is a much better low level alternative.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## barmby

> Tank dimension: 60cm x 30cm x 30cm (bowfront)
> Volume: 60L
> Lights: 51W (15W FL + 36W PL)
> Plant list:
> Anubius barteri var nana
> Barclaya longifolia
> Cryptocoryne albida
> Cryptocoryne grifithii
> Cryptocoryne ponterderiifolia
> ...



Very nice. made me envy. somemore so many slow growers..

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## barmby

> Well, folks get burned out after 20 some years of high tech growth speeds, we need to relax
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> Tom Barr



Learnt this from you. 

"less" is more.........  :Grin:

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## Plantbrain

I preach both sides of the fence, I know what most folks are looking for.

I say they do not need to test or do the CO2, but I have more testing equipment than just about anyone and have a dozen cO2 enriched tanks, but most are still non CO2.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## StanChung

can't agree more...

this is my profile and many others in my circle...

first buy plants, can't wait for it too look like jungle/fill out... then want it to stay that state for as long as possible with minimum fuss while hunting for the latest more exotic ones.... fit this bill?  :Laughing:

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## Sweet Angel

Geeezz...  :Shocked:  
And now I've spent so many cash, time, & energy trying to get a beautiful CO2 tank...
Dunno a non CO2 tank can get as pretty as bclee's...
Well I guess I'll keep fight for the CO2, coz I've been in the middle of it.
But having another non CO2 tank is fun I guess...  :Well done:

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## StanChung

as long as you have the patience...but non co2 tank is too slooooowww...  :Knockout:

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## baranne

> as long as you have the patience...but non co2 tank is too slooooowww...


When you scape reaches your desired layout and growth, you may actually prefer for it be very slooooow... or best to remain as it is...  :Wink:

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## StanChung

yea can't agree more! take more pictures then at least when your fingers are itchy you have those to remember by...  :Kiss:

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## Plantbrain

I have seen a tredn in the last couple of years for folks who are capable of growing plants raoidly, but opting for slower growth CO2 or they go non CO2.

It's nice to see the backlash from more light is better crowd.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## MiSo

i picked high tech because i use co2, but its a diy co2 system.

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## Rupert

I went from High tech in everyway, then changed the lighting from MHs to T5HO, no CO2, P04 weekly when I am in SG for the last 2.5 months, and am struggling to find the middle / hybrid road with some CO2 when I want it? CO2 & Dosing only in the weekends any one tried this?

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## stcyrwm

> I went from High tech in everyway, then changed the lighting from MHs to T5HO, no CO2, P04 weekly when I am in SG for the last 2.5 months, and am struggling to find the middle / hybrid road with some CO2 when I want it? CO2 & Dosing only in the weekends any one tried this?


I use 2 wpg, dose Excel daily, ferts once a week and water change once every 2 to 4 weeks. Keeps everything growing steadily but limits the pruning needed especially for plants like riccia. 

Bill

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## Plantbrain

> as long as you have the patience...but non co2 tank is too slooooowww...


Some things are worth the wait, once they are runnig and filled in, then you have the most stable tank you'll ever see.

I can grow most plants, no water changes, weekyl dosing, no ropuning except once every 1-2 months, never clean the glass, no CO2 fiddling, low light=less heat= less electricity cost=less initial cost.

Oh it's certainly worth it.
But so are CO2 tanks.

I have 11 tanks, most are small, but I'd never be able to tend to them all, this way I can have the best of both worlds.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## StanChung

i'm beginning to understand the cryptic words from amano's books/mags 'this tank was maintained over a long period of time' and these are co2+ tanks. these are of course the narrow leaf jf and bolbitis tanks...

i'm actually into slow growers but trying to speed them up so that i can turn down the speed at sit back and enjoy for a longer period of time...

there's something about non co2 that's very attractive...especially moss tanks. would like one very much.

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## mordrake

i have this 6ft high tech setup (3x150W mh, co2 etc).
things were fine when it was going full steam and family commitments wasn't so taxing.

but after the arrival of my son (now 1yr old), less and less time were spent on maintaining the tank.

now with the pending arrival of my 2nd child, i'm seriously thinking of turning the tank into a low tech one. failing, i would most probably sell off everything.

with mh lights, is it possible to go low tech?
been getting more and more bba lately. dosing n co2 has not changed so i gathered it's my bulbs... going on 18mths without change.

thanks for any input  :Smile:

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## bclee

Yes... it is possible.

You might consider reducing the lights to 2x150W if possible.

Just totally turn off your CO2. Stop the dosing of fertilisers. Do just one big water change. In the beginning, you might run into algae problem when the plants try to adapt. Do keep removing the algae as much as possible. After a few weeks or a month, things should stabilise. You might also want to replace the more demanding plants. Crypts are great for low-maintenance tanks.

After that, things should be in cruise control mode.

BC

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## mordrake

> Yes... it is possible.
> 
> You might consider reducing the lights to 2x150W if possible.
> 
> Just totally turn off your CO2. Stop the dosing of fertilisers. Do just one big water change. In the beginning, you might run into algae problem when the plants try to adapt. Do keep removing the algae as much as possible. After a few weeks or a month, things should stabilise. You might also want to replace the more demanding plants. Crypts are great for low-maintenance tanks.
> 
> After that, things should be in cruise control mode.
> 
> BC



thanks for the tips but too late.... got abit fed up when doing water change today... now the tank is FOWDW...fish only with driftwood.

might get some java ferns n nanas to put some green into the tank... crypts would be nice too

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## ourmanflint

I really love keeping fish again after a 10 year break, I'm amazed at the advances in technology and aquatic knowledge recently. You guys blow me away with all your Gizmos and potions, I am really impressed, but I think I've always been inclined to set my tanks up as "naturally" as possible, so very low tech for me.
I do a 10% water change every week, mostly in an attempt to soften the hard London water, and that's about it!!

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## StanChung

hi ourmanflint,

don't know if you can find it. in jakarta, they use some cheap kations to soften the water. tie a handful in some t shirt material and stick it into the canister filter...
if possible it's probably better to treat it in a storage tank/tub for WC. get a submersible pump to pump it into your tank. HTH

stan

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## ourmanflint

Hi stan

sounds like just the trick.... if only I could find out what it actually is, I would prefer to use it as a pre-treatment I think??

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## StanChung

yes it is, it looks like some muddy dark brown muck. like coffee grounds if i recall correctly. that's why it has to be tied in a fine cloth material.

i wish i knew more but it's very common in jakarta where i travel to meet clients.

i'll ask a friend and give you a pm soonest...they're in la la land now... :Smile:

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## MatthewS

High tech can turn low tech. 
I have a 100 Gallon tank that started off high tech a year ago. Slowly it's transformed into low tech. Never changed PL lights for one year so it got dimmer. I stopped adding C02 but made sure no surface agitation to gas off what CO2 there is. Stopped fertilizing. Stopped water changes almost completely - just top up. I just feed the fish plenty (thats fertilizer), removed most of the filter media (plants like ammonia). I change 40%water maybe once a quarter. Most of this happened without any plan in mind - just no time. Then I read Diana Walstad's "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" and discovered it was a valid alternative approach. So far I'm very happy with the results. No significant algae. Growth isn't explosive and the "pearling" junkies among us would be disappointed with it. But plants grow fast enough - I have to trim maybe every 3-4 weeks and thats enough for me. 

So yes Non CO2 is great for me. But which one is best depends on what you are trying to achieve.

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## blang

I am so glad to have found this thread. I have a 90 gallon, 2.4 wpg, half flourite/half gravel planted tank, dosing Kent fertilizers at half dose once a week.. My plants are growing all the time. Everytime I post in a thread about a small algae problem, I get a response that says that I can't do it without CO2. I almost went over to "the other side" but then decided it was just another "thing to worry about." Although it is probably going to be a challenge to find the right plants and nutrients, I plan to stick with a non-CO2 tank.

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## Plantbrain

I've suggested the virtues of non CO2 non water changing methods for many years.

You can amplify the method slighly and get a lot of gain for little work if you add some SeaChem Equlibrium once a week at about 1/4 teaspoon per 25-50gallon of tank and feed the fish slightly more.

After the tank matures and most of the nutrients have been used up in the substrate, you can add KNO3/KH2PO4 once a week, at 1/4 teaspoon KNO3 and KH2PO4 1/16th teaspoon per 50-60 gal and 5mls of TMG etc (all once a week). Skip one week per month.

This routine is easy, you dose 1-4 things once a week, takes about 45 seconds.

This will provide more gains and plant growth, namely healthier growth rather than faster growth. It'll also allow you to grow more species and more species together in the same tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

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## dc88

Question *with regards* *to* the poll :

(1) Is DIY CO2 considered "High Tech" ?
(2) People who selected both methods do you refer to have more than 1 tank and one type each ?
(3) What is consdered as "Hybrid" method ? (Some days with CO2 and days without CO2?)

Do not know which to select....

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## Plantbrain

What if you use all the methods?

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## Shadow

then select your favorite one  :Grin:

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## Plantbrain

> then select your favorite one


But they all my favorites :Smile: 

Regards, 
tom barr

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## o2bubble

Wow, this thread is getting surprising long.... and very informative  :Smile:  I think everyone has their own preference and methods of maintenance. I think both fast and slow growing planted tank can be equally nice and rewarding depending on your expectations and requirements. For now, i enjoying fast and my 2 month old tank using all the high-tech stuffs to help achieve this (will upgrade to MH very soon)  :Smile:  One bro pointed out very truthfully, all the work with trimming, replanting, adjusting, changing water, removing dead leaves/algae, dosing fertiliser etc etc are alot of work! So tired sometimes, but if you have a target in mind to achieve, just think of it and no regrets! ha... just my humble opinion  :Smile:

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## felix_fx2

> Question *with regards* *to* the poll :
> 
> (1) Is DIY CO2 considered "High Tech" ?
> (2) People who selected both methods do you refer to have more than 1 tank and one type each ?
> (3) What is consdered as "Hybrid" method ? (Some days with CO2 and days without CO2?)
> 
> Do not know which to select....


1: DIY co2 is enriching water like the more powerful costly to start pressurized one. I would not strictly quote co2 as the only factor but rather "high" enrichment paired with stronger lights and fert dose as high tech.

Right now I have no co2 enriched tank. Slow and steady reaps a good harvest.

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