# Planted Tanks > Aquascaping >  grey_fox 5 footer tank journal.

## grey_fox

OK, after a good 9 hours of back breaking work (I ended up spraining my neck... and ended up getting a 2 day MC...) I've rescaped the tank but its not fully done up yet. 

I'm thinking if I should cover the entire right with hair grass or probably another driftwood, thus forming a valley (any ideas?)

I threw away ALL the e. tenellus (had a full bucket of it..) and a number of other plants... I kept most of the hairgrass and re-trimmed it down again except for those that got entangled badly by the tenellus.

Sorry for the dirty shot.

From this 



To this

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## richietay

filling up with hairgrass or adding DW together with plants forming a gentle slope, both option certainly work out well! 
filling up the bare patch with hairgrass means another back aching work,  :Grin:  !

Awaits to see the completion of your setup!

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## dc88

A valley design may add some interesting complexity to it ?
The second DW mound at the right probably to keep the golden ratio 1.618:1 ?

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## grey_fox

I'm keen on doing a valley as well as keeping the right simple by simply having a hairgrass field (which will probably take a while to grow), also I agree that the golden ratio will be kept, however, what will be the focal point if I add the other driftwood?

**Yah.. after spraining my neck and my upper right shoulder, makes me thinking if I should go about spraining the other side of my body as well.

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## michael lai

Try adding a smaller DW on the right( lower than the left DW ), your focal point will still be the DW on the left and you still get your valley. :Smile:  My 2 cents.

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## grey_fox

So, I should keep that lower driftwood planted with JF, Windelovs, etc as well?

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## michael lai

Moss and nana will be nice.

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## grey_fox

Hmmm... moss & nana. Looking for a driftwood would be the next issue... by the way, you do have tubs of taiwan moss right?

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## michael lai

Yea, and some still on DW, big and small. If you like can negotiate :Grin:  letting go cheap. I'm cutting down on tanks.

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## grey_fox

Will pop by tomorrow then to have a look-see, will you be in around 1030-1100?

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## Justikanz

I think your discus will prefer an echi, with its big leaves.  :Razz:  Anyway, with a 5ft tank, you can have an echi on the right corner and with a smaller piece of wood, you can create a psuedo-valley...  :Smile:  My 2 cents.

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## Fei Miao

Nice, I think the discus would love the open space, I would keep the echis near the back.

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## grey_fox

Thanks guys, really appreciate your feedback. 

Anyways, I've added more items and have the following layout. Please note that it is not complete as yet, I am intending to have more moss on a driftwood added to the front of the driftwood on the right side or perhaps a medley of crypts. (Suggestions?) Thanks to Michael Lai for his feedback and assistance as well  :Smile: 

If I have more moss on the foreground driftwood, I will move the hairgrass into the 'valley' and have them spread out left-to-right infront.

I did have a huge Echi. Osiris (leaf width was about a good 15-18cm) and height more than 2 feet. I have passed this to one of the members of the forums here, believe he can vouch for the sheer size of the Echi.  :Razz:  The discus prefer to hide at the back of the driftwoods and do come out once in a while, the braver three (that you see being captured) are always out in the open. The rest are hiding in the 'cave' I created at the combination of driftwoods at the left side. They'll only be visible when they 'sniff' the bloodworms.



*EDIT: Replaced photo taken in the afternoon with a new photo just taken. -reflection.*

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## michael lai

Looking good, grey fox. Now only need to fill in the blank and wait for the rest of the plants to grow out. :Smile:

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## grey_fox

5 days after the rescape, water has cleared up already and have also added 60 red noses. I've yet to cover up that open hole on the right and also another spot.

Removed all the "tiger" vallisnerias on the left and added the chiller to the tank.

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## |squee|

What's missing is the lack of plants at the extreme left and right of the tank, doesn't "fill out" the picture. The moss balls look weird to me too, but this is purely my personal preference  :Smile:  

Perhaps use more crypts (crypts en masse and grown well are very nice and wild looking) around the moss balls's bases, and for the extreme left and rights I've no idea, because I'm thinking the discus will like the extra swimming space. If that is so you have to "stablise" the java fern mound.

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## grey_fox

Hmm yeah, I'm actually waiting for the balansae's to grow thicker at the extreme right and thinking of placing more balansae's at the extreme left. 

As for the moss ball, i simply moss balls  :Razz:  

I'm thinking of placing more moss at the base of the moss ball, probably another driftwood to cover up that hole and shift the hairgrass to the centre and have more crypts on the right side (en masse).

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## richietay

grey_fox, looking good!  :Smile:  

your moss ball near the water surface, does the shape sag down when u do water change? where the water level dropped when water drawn.
i have a taiwan moss ball grown on tip of bogwood near water surface, the whole shape sag down when i do weekliy water change. Have to actually style it  :Grin:  ..

are you planning to further fill the foreground with hairgrass? will look very nice

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## grey_fox

Hey richie,

Thanks. Yup, it will sag down but as long as the water level drops slowly everything should be fine  :Smile:  

I'm planning to fill the right side first with a driftwood with more moss and have crypts and nanas surround the base. The hairgrass will be planted further into the foreground to fill up the spaces on the left & right. It'll be more concentrated in the middle of the "valley" and more balansae's to fill up the left back of the tank.

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## genes

The left side seems to be giving a natural look while the right side is showing the opposite - controlled and artificial. 

I feel having some symmetry on the left and right hand side is better for a valley concept. Just my opinion...  :Smile:

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## grey_fox

Hey genes, thanks for your feedback. Heh, can't help it, I love moss balls.  :Razz: 

Anyways, this is just an update, its about 90% done, still have a bit of things to add here and there.

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## grey_fox

:Razz:  was flipping through my iPhotos program and the Tank album of mine. Thought I'd like to share from day 1 of my tank till to date.

*First setup.*


*Planted more after 6 days of initial setup* 


*One more month after discovering E.I, became an ugly jungle.*


*First major re-scape.*


*Before tearing down the first re-scape*


*Second major and final (hopefully) re-scape.*

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## coolbucks

hi grey fox,

nice set up,cool man...

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## grey_fox

Thanks coolbucks, its still not complete yet though.  :Confused:

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## dc88

Another good testimony of E.I !
Amazing in just 4 weeks (the 10 Jan vs 10 Feb pics) and the result of the growth  :Shocked:

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## grey_fox

Yup, E.I works wonders  :Smile:  Good CO2 played a part in it as well  :Grin:

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## grey_fox

OK, I need some advise from all of you. 

I'm thinking of yanking out all of the hairgrass before it sets it, its growing already however I want to have another sort of foreground.

Question is what sort of foreground should I try?

I don't want hairgrass or E. tenellus.

Any other sorts that would fit my scape?

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## richietay

Hairgrass lawn certainly looks good in your scape. else stargrass, how is it?

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## kemp

what about APP?

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## grey_fox

Hairgrass would be ok I guess but was thinking of trying another foreground instead.

Stargrass A.K.A APP?

What's the pricing? Does it grow fast and what are its requirements?

My setup for lighting and CO2 are as follows

Lighting, currently 2.2WPG (I can switch to 2.9WPG anytime)
CO2, 30PPM

Sufficient? 

What about glosso?

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## richietay

Glosso ah, can try!

stargrass, have not experienced before but have a liking to it. Erm....Weirong have those, maybe he can give some advices and comments. 

grey_fox, your moss i suppose is taiwan moss, and it is attached to driftwood or bogwood? the two moss ball attached on the same wood?

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## grey_fox

Hey richie,

They're attached to two seperate driftwoods.  :Smile:  Might change the entire foreground to glosso if I can get my hands on them.

Just added more balansae's at the left-back. Going to get some downoi and some crypts this weekend to fill up further gaps.



Sorry for the bad picture... Sony camera's button stuck, EV set to -2.0...

Here's the list of Flora & Fauna in my tank as at the moment.

*FLORA*
Microsorum pteropus
Microsorum pteropus ''Narrow''
Microsorum pteropus 'Windel&#248;v'
Microsorum pteropus 'Tropica'
Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica'
Anubias barteri var. nana
Anubias barteri ''coffeefolia''
Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite'
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne x willisii
Cryptocoryne beckettii
Cryptocoryne wendtii ''green''
Cryptocoryne wendtii ''brown''
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'
Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae
Eleocharis ''parvula''
Limnobium laevigatum
Taxiphyllum alternans
Blyxa japonica
Blyxa echinosperma

*FAUNA*
Symphysodon aequifasciatus
Hemigrammus bleheri
Iriatherina werneri
Lamprichthys tanganicanus
Corydoras hastatus
Nannostomus beckfordi
Tanichthys albonubes
Barbus titteya
Beaufortia kweichowensis
Ambassis agassizii
Otocinclus vittatus
Apistogramma cacatuoides
Caridina japonica
Neocaridina sp "Malayan"
Melanoides tuberculata
Planorbis corneus/rubrum
Physa sp.
Farowella acus

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## digital_ric

wow.. going to be a great tank..

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## michael lai

Looking good, bro. How about a small DW tied with Fissidens? heehee :Evil:

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## grey_fox

Hey Michael,

No space to put already leh.  :Razz:  I want big big DW tied with Fissidens  :Laughing: 

*dreams of overhanging mature fissdens*  :Surprised:  :Laughing: 

Think if I were to tie the Fissidens to the DW, I will  :Knockout:

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## michael lai

This will be our next project, let me go see who got big amounts of fissiden, then we buy and experiment,ok? Maybe we can robe in Jake as well... :Laughing:  

Oh yes, I had that dream again last night. Over hanging fissidens swaying ever so slightly in the current and the hill was like as far as the eye can see. sigh..............till then :Grin:

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## grey_fox

:Laughing:  steady! Yah must get Jake involved as well  :Grin: 

Don't forget the MHs plus the shadow that will be cast by the moving current...

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## grey_fox

Just added a _Farowella acus_ to the tank setup  :Smile:  Beautiful fella!  :Grin:  also yanked out ALL of the hair grass and changed that to a downoi foreground  :Smile:

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## richietay

grey_fox, you opted for glosso or downoi? downoi lawn will be very nice too, just that their growth rate are pretty slow.

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## grey_fox

downoi lawn  :Smile:  instead of a glosso lawn. Prefer a slow growing lawn than a super-duper quick one. No rush to have the plants mature fast. Its the wait and the comparison month-after-month that will excite me hehe. 

 :Laughing:

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## grey_fox

Ok, tank is 96% completed.

Removed all hair grass, added a bit of downoi first, added more coffefolia. 



Btw, can a mod help change the subject for me to "*Grey_Fox 5ft Tank Journal*" ?

Much thanks in advance  :Grin:

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## r4211z

> steady! Yah must get Jake involved as well 
> 
> Don't forget the MHs plus the shadow that will be cast by the moving current...


This month world cup month leh, 

let me win some before spending lah...
Next month i still got to spend on my bicycle hubs, i saw this guy giving up hobby, 3 dw with lots of fissdens for $60. 

Dunno still there or not.

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## grey_fox

Since I've received some PMs on what's my hardware, fert regime, etc. I've decided to just write it down here since I'm making this thread my tank journal. I do hope everything is correct  :Razz: 


 
* HARDWARE*
 5 x 2 x 2 feet tank (customised 14mm thickness curved sides - tempered glass)
Chengai 4 door-compartment cabinet (customised)
13 x 10kg packs of Lapis gravel
8 x 10kg pots of Sera floredepot base fertiliser
2 x Solite Type 4 T5 HO lamps (8 T5HO tubes @ (4)10,000K + (4)6,500K tubes)
2 x Eheim Professional II 2028 (both with Professional II filter media) 
3 x output (1 x customised rainbar, 1 x normal rainbar, 1 x elbow output)
3 x inlets (1 x sponge filter, 1 x intake grille, 1 x skimmer grille)
1 x Eheim 1260 universal pump
1 x Resun CL650 chiller
1 x 5L CO2 tank
1 x JBJ solenoid
1 x JBJ submersible digital thermometer
1 x external CO2 reactor (N.A)
1 x bubble counter
1 x ADA drop checker
*
TANK DECOR*
 6 x driftwoods
*
FLORA*
 Microsorum pteropus
Microsorum pteropus ''Narrow''
Microsorum pteropus 'Windeløv'
Microsorum pteropus 'Tropica'
Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica'
Anubias barteri var. nana
Anubias barteri ''coffeefolia''
Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite'
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne x willisii
Cryptocoryne beckettii
Cryptocoryne wendtii ''green''
Cryptocoryne wendtii ''brown''
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'
Limnobium laevigatum
Taxiphyllum alternans
Blyxa japonica
Blyxa echinosperma
Pogostemon helferi 

*FAUNA*
 Symphysodon aequifasciatus
Hemigrammus bleheri
Iriatherina werneri
Lamprichthys tanganicanus
Corydoras hastatus
Nannostomus beckfordi
Tanichthys albonubes
Barbus titteya
Beaufortia kweichowensis
Ambassis agassizii
Otocinclus vittatus
Apistogramma cacatuoides
Caridina japonica
Neocaridina sp "Malayan"
Melanoides tuberculata
Planorbis corneus/rubrum
Physa sp.
Farowella acus
 
* FERT REGIME*
 KNO3
KH2PO4 (Fleet Enema)
Seachem Flourish

KNO3 - 1.7 tps {*NO3 - from KNO3 - 9.61 PPM* + K - from KNO3 - 6.06 PPM}
PO4 - 1.2 ml - 1.42 PPM
Fe - 0.06 PPM

NO3 - 3 x weekly = 9.61 x 3 = 28.83 PPM
K - 3 x weekly = 6.06 x 3 = 18.18 PPM
PO4 - 3 x weekly = 1.42 x 3 = 4.26 PPM
Fe - 3 x weekly = 0.06 x 3 = 0.18 PPM 

 Water change on Saturdays (35-45%) + Nutrafin water conditioner
No ferts added in Friday

* WATER PARAMETERS*
 PH - 6.6
KH - 4.0
Temperature range - 26.6 ~ 27.2

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## michael lai

Grey_fox with the nanas in place, the scape is beginning to really look sharp. I think it's almost there.  :Grin:

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## grey_fox

Heheh thanks dude. Thanks to the coffeefolias and the other nana gang. Still have a bit of things to do to the scape. 

Gonna add more downoi to the lawn and to fill the small gap at where the taiwan moss is or either that, I will let the downoi spread over there and the space inbetween the _Blyxa japonica_ and _Echi. Tropica.

_Thinking of adding a small amount of downoi or smaller pieces of _B. Japonicas_ there as well to fill up the space.

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## mordrake

looking mighty good  :Smile: 

how about adding a couple of branchy wood with java ferns attached? one on each side of the 2 "hills" with the branches pointing towards the space in between?
with the correct sized wood and nicely placed ferns, you may be able to hide the spraybar  :Very Happy: 

also some taller crypts behind the blyxa japonica in the corner would be nice too. the lone blyxa japonica looks kind of out of place.

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## grey_fox

Hey mordrake,

Thank you.  :Razz:  don't think they'll be enough space for any brancy driftwoods actually. 

There's a bunch of balansae's behind the blyxas, just waiting for them to mature and grow up, also there's a total of 4 blyxas there  :Razz:

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## mordrake

> Hey mordrake,
> 
> Thank you.  don't think they'll be enough space for any brancy driftwoods actually. 
> 
> There's a bunch of balansae's behind the blyxas, just waiting for them to mature and grow up, also there's a total of 4 blyxas there



ahh... balansaes... have some in my tank too.
and yes, i'm also waiting for mine to grow up  :Wink:

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## dc88

It is certainly taking shape ! Very well done - lots of planning and hard work i guess.
When it is finally done to take that award winning photo you likely will remove (or hide) that rain bar ?

Oh, one question on the fert scheme, as you stated:
" KNO3 - 1.7 tps - 9.61 PPM 
K - from KNO3 - 6.06 PPM
PO4 - 1.2 ml - 1.42 PPM
Fe - 0.06 PPM..."

Is the 9.61 PPM the NO3 level or the total KNO3 level ?
(NO3 is roughly 61% of KNO3, BTW)

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## grey_fox

Hi dc,

Thanks for the compliment. As for the rain bar, i'll likely hide it with time to come. That particular long rain bar carries the chilled CO2 enriched water, probably modifying it further will be a better option for me.

As for my dosage reegime, I've always used APC's fertilator. The figures were taken directly off from there, do check it out. I believe that the composition of percentage has been calculated  :Wink:

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## dc88

> Hi dc,
> As for my dosage reegime, I've always used APC's fertilator. The figures were taken directly off from there, do check it out. I believe that the composition of percentage has been calculated


I check the APC fertilator with your tank size (149 gallon) and KNO3 dosage (1.7 tsp). You are right that the reading output is 9.61ppm, but this is the NO3 component of the total KNO3.
The APC fertilitor output the individual compound (NO3, PO4, K,..).
So your tank stats should be : 
" KNO3 - 1.7 tps
NO3 - from KNO3 - 9.61 PPM
K - from KNO3 - 6.06 PPM"
Just a suggestion ...

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## grey_fox

> I check the APC fertilator with your tank size (149 gallon) and KNO3 dosage (1.7 tsp). You are right that the reading output is 9.61ppm, but this is the NO3 component of the total KNO3.
> The APC fertilitor output the individual compound (NO3, PO4, K,..).
> So your tank stats should be : 
> " KNO3 - 1.7 tps
> NO3 - from KNO3 - 9.61 PPM
> K - from KNO3 - 6.06 PPM"
> Just a suggestion ...


Ah I get your point.  :Smile:  my mistake for not indicating properly since I actually put K - from KNO3 as well.  :Smile:  will amend that initial post then to clarify the fert regime.

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## grey_fox

My latest addition to the tank 2 x Symphysodon aequifasciatus "Tiger".

 :Jump for joy:

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## Justikanz

Wow!! PM me where you find that! Once I got my kit to help clean my Ehiem 2026, I will be getting discus!  :Smile:

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## celticfish

ROTFL!! nice one grey_fox.
thomas took it hook, line and sink!!!  :Laughing:

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## coolbucks

hi Grey_fox,

Swee swee leh, your discus... Pm me where u bought this discus..

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## grey_fox

PMed both of you.  :Smile:

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## dennis_yong

dunno whats the out come since it 1/2 way done but the initial setup looks ok to me

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## grey_fox

Errr, its 96% done.

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## StanChung

Looking nice, congrats. just the ferns need to grow a bit to create thicker denser shape. 
I wonder if trimming them to get new growth will give it a more grown in look?

Very attractive discus, not easy to keep healthy[always look dark and malnourished in planted tanks generally after awhile!].
What are you feeding them?

Regards


Stan

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## grey_fox

Hey Stan,

Thanks man. The JF and the crypts have since grown,  :Smile:  Will take a photo soon. 

I agree, its not easy to keep discus healthy in a planted tank, very susceptible to stuff but so far I've been rather lucky it seems. 

I only feed them with Hikari blood worms. No dried foods for them at all.

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## grey_fox

Update: 1 month after major rescape.

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## ah^siao

the japonica at the left hand side looks out of the way

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## grey_fox

Haha yah i know, initally wanted to just fill up that void (supposedly my plan was to have another DW with ferns there....) there but the japonica just grew and grew, so I'll probably just leave it there and let it grow. (pity to uproot it as its growing really good and lush)

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## mordrake

it's going to get bigger with the increased KNO3 dosing  :Grin:

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## grey_fox

> it's going to get bigger with the increased KNO3 dosing


 :Well done:  haha. Will take another photo next month.

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## Justikanz

Teach me how to grow the Blyxa... I NEVER had ANY luck with them...  :Confused:

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## ranmasatome

Justikanz.. they grow the same as APP.. NO3 is the secret. IF your APP grows well..then your blyxa should take to the tank as well.. :Grin:

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## grey_fox

I think might be the KNO3 dosage. I just planted it and left it alone, started flourishing after a week or so.

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## grey_fox

Got nothing much to do today. Decided to take a few photos. (sorry for the crappy shots) heh, the downoi is taking forever to grow.

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## richietay

grey_fox, your tank looks great. the plants doing well and healthy, blending well together in the scape. 
For the downoi, really annoying for me also, growing very slow. 

guess once the downoi starts to grow and propagate, you be in time for ADA07,  :Smile:

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## grey_fox

Hey Richie,

Thanks a bunch. Lol, yeah probably will take quite some time to get that bushy downoi forest that I want to acheive.

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## grey_fox

I'm thinking of changing the foreground plant (probably will shift the downoi else where instead. 

What foreground plant would suit my scape.

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## richietay

recently came across this plant Hygrophilla Sp., quite nice if planted on a large scale tank.  :Smile:

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## grey_fox

Its that red creeping plant correct? Last I heard its quite expensive yeah? Where can I get this plant?

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## Justikanz

I still a couple of the plant... PM me...  :Razz:

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## grey_fox

PMed you already.  :Smile:

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## mickthefish

i love your set up, it gives me a feeling of serenity, very peaceful. i wouldn't change a thing if it was my tank.
mick

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## StanChung

Very nice Aaron, can't believe you were a newbie just months ago! Time to mount a serious challenge at ADA!
Seriously what you need now is some research to get your dream setup!
 :Flame: 
Heck, You got more posts than me!

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## grey_fox

:Laughing:  I asked more questions thus more posts. 

Wah mount a serious challenge in ADA '07? Can try will end up posting more questions and have my posts double yours soon. 

 :Laughing:

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## StanChung

Haha, that's the spirit. The more question you ask, the more I learn as well.  :Grin:

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## grey_fox

Tank update as at 20 August 2006. By the way,  :Laughing:  my supposed downoi forground got chewed away by the school of red nose. 

Timeline of my 5 footer.

*29 May 2006*


*30 May 2006*


*04 June 2006*


*13 June 2006*


*11 July 2006*


*20 August 2006
* 

The various ferns have been sprouting plantlets like mad, same for the E. parvilous. Wish I could say the same for the now-destroyed downoi. The crypts and various nanas are all doing really well.

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## richietay

look at how the flora had matured, overall very nice. Have you tried the Hygrophilla Sp. yet?? 
looks like you have somehow trimmed the moss, how you go about doing it??

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## grey_fox

Hi Richie, 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah the mosses/nanas/ferns have actually rooted themselves down to the driftwood and creeping on it. The plantlets are really growing pretty fast as well. I haven't tried Hygrophilla Sp. as yet, kinda torn between having _HG_ re-planted there or _E. Tenellus_. 

As for the moss, I drained out the water and trimmed it actually, problem is after filling up the tank, loose strands will tend to float around, at least it beats having to clean up when the moss is submerged and trimmed which will be a messier job. (Even more loose strands) It was quite a chore and the trim I made was not the best, could've done a better job (after a while the arms & hands become a tad bit spastic  :Laughing:  from all the controlled movements and the fear of accidentally snipping a shrimp or shrimplet in half whilst trimming.)

I think the best way is to bring it entirely out and trim it but... expect a "_Hiroshima_".  :Smile:

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## richietay

Grey_fox, any updates of your tank?

has been a while since last heard from you.  :Smile:

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## grey_fox

Hey Richie,

Sorry been so busy with my wedding plus other stuff. Been away from the scene for a while, my tank has gone low-tech now. No CO2/fert/waterchange etc and surprisingly no algae as well. 

I will try to post a photo as soon as I can.

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## ahkarboy

Why'd you turn it low tech i mean it was great just look at the pictures

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