# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  planting 'pellia'

## carlfsk

Can someone share their experience in planting 'pellia'? I've read throught forums and articles. It's mentioned that 'pellia' are pretty hardy plants which could tolerate water temperature of up to 30 degrees. 

But this does not happen to mine. Patches of my 'pellia' foreground turns brown and subsequently whithered away. 

I've just rescaped my 5ftby1ftby1ft tank using only 'pellia' as foreground plants. I'm using 2*36watt FL tube with a fan to cool off the water. Normally the temperature hits around 26 to 27 degrees when the lights are on. When lights out, it is about 28degrees. Fan will be off too. 

Anyone has any idea what could be happening? 

The 'pellia' in my office, which is air-conditioned is growing very well. So I reckon it must have to do with the temperature. I was contemplating getting a chiller just for them. Hope could get some valuable advice on kicking start these plants. 

Thanks!

----------


## Piscesgirl

My pelia grows well anchored to a cave decoration. Do you just have it setting on the substrate or is it anchored to something? The pieces I've set on substrate don't seem to do as well. The temp in my tank goes to approximately 80 degrees F., and it is a very well lit tank.

----------


## timebomb

Carl,

The Pellia is now known as _Monoselenium tenerum_. Hope I got the spelling of the name right. 

As far as I know, the M. tenerum is easy to keep alive but difficult to grow well. They grew in my tank but I never achieved the same kind of growth I saw in the display tanks of some fish shops. Samyick's at EastPoint seem to grow them really well. I don't know how they managed to make the plant grow in concentric circles. 

I'm not sure but I think the plant do better under moderate light and cold temperatures. If yours are turning brown, it could be something to do with what's happening to many of our aquatic plants. I'll talk about that in another topic - this thing about mosses and liverworts turning brown.

Loh K L

----------


## carlfsk

Hi Deborah, for mine, I tied them onto wire mesh.

Hi Loh, can't wait to see your posting on moss turning brown. By-the-way, may I know what's the normal temperature in your tank? Did you use a chiller or just fans?

I am really anxious what I could do about it. The M.Tenerum are dying as days goes by and it seems 'contagious'.

----------


## timebomb

> Hi Loh, can't wait to see your posting on moss turning brown. By-the-way, may I know what's the normal temperature in your tank? Did you use a chiller or just fans?


Where have you been, Carl?  :Laughing:  Didn't you see the DIY Chiller post? 

My temperatures before I had the DIY Chiller were around 26 to 28 C. I was using fans then and the problem with fans is their effectiveness depends a lot on ambient temperature. With my DIY Chiller, the thermometer has never gone above 26 and it's mostly 23 to 24 C, even on very hot days. I'm hoping when December comes around, I will see 22 C. But even without seeing 22 C, my tank is so cold now there's always condensation on the glass :smile: 




> I am really anxious what I could do about it. The M.Tenerum are dying as days goes by and it seems 'contagious'.


With ferns, "brown" can be highly contagious. I'm not sure if it's the same with mosses and liverworts but I would think it's unlikely. The M. tenerum is a liverwort, if you don't already know. When the leaves of ferns turn brown, I snipped them off to prevent it spreading to the other leaves. With Liverworts, I really don't know what you can do. I'm sorry I can't help you with this, Carl. 

Loh K L

----------


## carlfsk

Hi Loh, I'm tired now, having going through such a long posting. For the sake of my eyes, I'll carry on tomorrow...  :Cool:

----------


## Piscesgirl

Is your water soft or hard? Does the tank have CO2? 

The tank my pelia is doing well in is very soft, and has DIY Co2. Ph usually 6.5 or lower.

----------


## carlfsk

> Is your water soft or hard? Does the tank have CO2? 
> 
> The tank my pelia is doing well in is very soft, and has DIY Co2. Ph usually 6.5 or lower.


I set the PH at 6.4 with CO2 control. I just could not figure out what is wrong. 

How about your fertiliser dosing regime? What do your dose, at what quantity and how often?

Hope I could get hold of a chiller to try to maintain the temperature at constant 26degrees. We'll see whether this will tackle the problem.

----------


## carlfsk

By-the-way, I'm dosing 1 drops of Lushgro Micro, 6 drops of Luchgro Aqua, 5 drops of Seachem Fe, and 6 drops of KNO3 every alternate days. 

I am thinking if it's too much to dose as I could see algae growing on the rocks surface, those brown 'algae' stains.

----------


## Piscesgirl

I do not add much fert because I keep shrimp and do not like the fact that copper is in most ferts; yes, I know most people report no problems, but I don't like to take my chances.

So, I add Calcium Carbonate a couple of times a week (about 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon) to help with the shrimp's shells, especially because my water is so soft. I add reef iodide once a week after water changes, also for the shrimp, and a few drops of Kent Botanica Grow (which has Muriate of Potash, Magnesium Sulfate, Calcium Citrate, Iron EDTA, and some Potassium Iodide) daily. That's all I add. I feed the shrimp a lot. 

Here's my Pelia:


The temp in my tank doesn't go below 76 F. and goes up to 80 F.

----------


## whuntley

Deborah, 

Lots of things in the tank may need the CaCO3, but probably not the shrimp.  :Very Happy:  Their shells are made of chitin and contain little or no Ca, compared to snails, etc. I have found the trace iodide addition essential for several kinds of shrimp and even crawdads, I think. 

A trick for avoiding the highly overpriced LFS reef iodide stuff is to feed plenty of kelp/spirulina flakes and/or use iodized salt for hatching bbs, etc. 

Just avoid the premium brands that use silica gel for a free-flowing agent. Get the cheapest store brands that say "yellow prussiate of soda" on the box. It is sodium ferrocyanide and lots more soluble than the gill-scraping silicates. [They use the medieval name to avoid terrifying folks whose chemical knowledge comes from mandatory government schools.] The old-wives-tales cautions against using iodized salt are all based on the silicates, not the amount of iodide present.

Don't underfertilize to avoid traces of copper. It, too, is an essential trace element for sustaining life. Too little is as bad as too much, usually.

It is like oversoftening water killing plants and fish. Sodium is an essential blood electrolyte, but too much with too little of the others can become toxic. I added too much salt to raise the tds of my ultra-soft water in Modesto (tds 50ppm) and killed even the toughest Java Moss (which is often an estuarine plant!). My strain of Java Moss had previously done OK in nearly 50% sea water. [S.G. 1.015]

Moderation in all things seems to have a lot going for it.  :Smile: 

Wright

----------


## Piscesgirl

I do appreciate your thoughts Wright, 

I've been reading a little about chiton -- but it does seem to be made up of calcium oxides and protein -- the shrimp seem to consume it and make chiton -- at least that's what I've gotten from the reading, although by no means was it easy to understand. 

Also, before I began adding the calcium carbonate, the snails in the tank began having white to clear shells -- although yes, the shrimp appeared fine. 

I'd rather avoid the copper and make the plants suffer a bit, which they don't seem to be -- it is my easiest and most successful tank. Not a spot of algae, all I do is provide was I stated above and once a week water changes. The trimming was very annoying, but with the slower growing Downoi spreading, that has become less of a problem. I've gotten rid of most of the Lud.Cuba which was the fastest growing. Still have some, will eventually take that out to let the Downoi fill up the front. 


Oh...I don't hatch BBS...I don't feed live foods...It's not something I can do. There are snails in my tanks, and if the loaches eat them, that's one thing - but I just can't make myself feed anything alive on purpose....

The tank has been extremely successful with the procedure I've been using; and I'll stick with "if it works, don't change it!" My 55 is much, much more trouble and it is on pressurized Co2!

----------


## TS168

Hi All,
From what i know this pellia or any other plant will turn brown or die when there a big swing in environment changes.

1. Most common cause is temperature. 
Especially if it is 1st grown in a chiller planted tank. And when you buy/bringg back and put into your planted tank? The possiblity of it turning brown is higher.

2. Water parameter. Such as PH, KH...

I have experience it afew time and now i try to put seperate them into different tank or container and let them stabilise 1st.

I even have a small portion i put in a small plastic container beside my tank, without any aeration. It is turn dark green n growing.

Infact this plant is very easy to grow once it stabilise.

So do not rush to grow it when you 1st got hold of this plant. Let it stabilise it if possible. I know it sound rather stupid.

TS

----------


## timebomb

> Here's my Pelia:


Wow, Deborah. That's a lovely tank. And your M. tenerum is so beautiful. Yours are growing the way I mentioned earlier, in concentric circles. You must be one accomplished aquatic gardener. Either that or your thumb is greener than mine  :Laughing: .




> The temp in my tank doesn't go below 76 F. and goes up to 80 F.


For the folks who can't figure out Fahrenheit, 76 F is 24.4 C and 80 F is 26.7 C. In other words, her tank is cold. Brrrrrr. I never had much success with M. tenerum but that's before I had the DIY Chiller. After seeing Deborah's tank, I intend to try again. 

Loh K L

----------


## Piscesgirl

Thank you Loh K L! I was thinking that 26 C = 76 F, and 28 C = 78 F  :Opps:  

That's why I didn't think temp had anything to do with his brown Pelia. 

That is my favorite tank, Loh K L, and it is easy as anything. My 55 gallon on the other hand  :Evil:  I have a lot of light on it though -- it's 29 gallons and I have 148 watts of compact flourescent light (10 K and 6700 K bulbs). I run a desk fan on the light fixtures so the don't get the tank too hot. 

We had a cool evening last night, and my house is at 70 degrees right now...brrrrrrrrr.  :Sad:  I like warmer temps. I think I was a tropical fish in a former life :P 

I really do believe that the Pelia prefers to be attached to something. I have a few pieces on the substrate that don't do as well.

----------


## timebomb

> We had a cool evening last night, and my house is at 70 degrees right now...brrrrrrrrr.


70 F is 21.1 C. At that sort of temperatures, we in Singapore freeze  :Laughing: .

Deborah, here's a useful web site that does conversions. I'll take note of what you said; I will tie the M. tenerum to something when I grow them again.

Loh K L

----------


## carlfsk

> Hi All,
> From what i know this pellia or any other plant will turn brown or die when there a big swing in environment changes.
> TS


Hi pal, I believe too it's because of the transition stage. The closest which I could put the blame on.

It happens to mine which are bought from a chilled tank and planted in a non-chilled. It turns brown and died subsequently. Hope the surviving could climatized themselves well.

----------


## carlfsk

Side track a little. I bought a thermometer to test out the temperature of the tank water in my office which is air-conditioned. It reads about 26-27 degrees. This reading is the same as the tank in my house which is not air-conditioned. 

Anybody can explain this?

I would expect the water in the office to be colder, an attribute to the well-being of the pants.

Is the thermometer spoilt?

----------

