# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Aquatic Moss Club >  Java Moss Wall

## timebomb

Besides writing the article about Grindal Worm Culture, Ronnie Lee also created a page on how he grows his Java Moss Wall. It can be found on my website at:

http://www.killies.com/Ronnie%27smosswall.htm

Loh K L

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## pipsqueak

Excellant timebomb! I was just about to add a moss wall. this has certainly clarified any doubts.

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## FC

Ronnie,

Well done! If Ronnie's fat finger can java mossing, so can you.

Thanks for the contribution.




Regards,

Freddy

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## pipsqueak

> ----------------
> On 2/25/2003 11:25:12 AM 
> 
> Ronnie,
> 
> Well done! If Ronnie's fat finger can java mossing, so can you.
> 
> Thanks for the contribution.
> 
> ...


Haha, i have fat fingers too, it took me 10 mins to tie windelov to my driftwood, so tiring! Fishing line is so slippery. And I'm too lazy to look for thread. :Razz:  
How long does a moss wall take to grow to form a decent enough &amp;quot;wall&amp;quot;? 
Any one with experience care to share? With factors like fert, temp and co2 taken into consideration?

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## philtre

great stuff! thanks. begining to take an interest in planted tanks and have been thinking of doing a moss wall. this came just in time.

one question though .... how was the partition sucker used to hold up the mesh? sorry ... but I think and think ... and I'm still wondering. hehehe .. brain dead.

thanks!
phil

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## AroDon

Nice. Thanks for sharing.

Just the kinda project that I am into...real soon  :Wink:

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## Aqua_ikebana

COOL!!! DROOLL...

I dream of having a MOSS drift wood wall in my tank.

Had tied some moss onto a piece of 1.5ft driftwood (it's a big one), now waiting for the moss to grow long.

Anyone any idea how long will that take??
And what are the conditions to consider for fast moss growth.
I read from Tropica.com the demand for moss is low but growth is low too.

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## vinz

1. Good current flowing over the moss. I think a forumer posted this one earlier.
2. CO2. Even low light plants do better with CO2 injection. Got this from the Aquatic Plant Digest.
3. One forumer's struggling xmas moss wall did much better when he started dosing potassium at 20ppm per week.

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## pipsqueak

> ----------------
> On 2/26/2003 12:06:14 AM 
> 
> great stuff! thanks. begining to take an interest in planted tanks and have been thinking of doing a moss wall. this came just in time.
> 
> one question though .... how was the partition sucker used to hold up the mesh? sorry ... but I think and think ... and I'm still wondering. hehehe .. brain dead.
> 
> thanks!
> phil
> ----------------


I couldn't figure that one out too, but i think he used cable ties? Or maybe he slit a hole for the Partition sucker to go in, and let the elasticity(is there such a word?) hold on to the wall.

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## turaco

On his 23rd pic, you can see how he had done it(Count the pics!). Alternatively, you can use just the rubber sucker(is that what's being call?), cut a small hole on the netting and squeeze it in. The closer the netting to the back of your tank the better- so that fish will not trap in there. I had another idea with moss, I tie them to the filter input pipe! Do not block the bottom sucking portion though. Be creative! you can tie your moss anywhere. Ever see a ball of floating moss?

Turaco.

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## timebomb

Thanks for pointing out how Ronnie sticks his moss wall to the glass, Turaco. As it was Ronnie's page, I didn't know how he did it too.

But guys, if you are planning on growing a moss wall, take note that it can become a death trap for fishes. Before the wall fills up, there are 3 locations where the fish can get trapped. 

First, the holes of the mesh. Fish sometimes will attempt to swim through the holes and get stuck halfway through. So it's better to use a mesh with small holes. I'm using one which has holes about 8 mm in diameter.

Second, the gap between the two pieces of mesh when it's folded. I use a needle to weave a fishing line through the holes along the edges and tie them securely together.

Third, the gap between the wall and the glass. If you are using suction cups, chances are a few of the cups will eventually come loose and fish which swim inside the opening will find themselves trapped between the wall and the glass. Fish can't swim &amp;quot;go-astern&amp;quot;. For my new moss wall, I apply the suction cups only along the top of the mesh. In other words, I hang my wall. The wall is not stuck close to the glass, allowing fish that swim in to swim out. From the front of the tank, you won't be able to tell the difference.

It takes about 2 to 3 months before a wall fills out completely. But this is just a rough estimate. It depends of many factors, foremost amongst which would be your tank parameters. Besides the points Vinz mentioned, I think the most important factor is a low temperature. In my tanks, the moss dies when the temperature goes above 28 C. I don't do anything to change the Kh, Ph or Gh of my water. As far as I'm concerned, it's all PUB tap water to me.

Loh K L

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## pipsqueak

Thanks for the pointers!

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## toledosun

Hey Timebomb,

your tank inspired me to switch from riccia to taiwan moss and crypts. Just so that I get it right. Other than keeping your temp below 28 deg. what are your tank's other parameters, for e.g.:

1) kh
2) ph
3) hours of light on &amp;amp; how many watts/gallon
4) any CO2?
5) what brand of liquid fertilisers do you use?

Currently, my tank's taiwan moss (from Chan) is growing very very slowly (almost stagnant). Not sure whether this is because I didn't tie them to anything but just spread them on the gravel. My water temp is about 27-28 deg, KH 3.5 and PH about 6.5. 7 hours of light but only about 1W/gallon.

Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks

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## timebomb

Other than keeping your temp below 28 deg. what are your tank's other parameters, for e.g.:

----------------

I don't own test kits so I can't be sure about Kh and Ph. I assume it's Kh 0 and Ph 7. That's generally what tap water is in Singapore. I have many tanks growing the christmas moss so I can tell you too that lighting isn't a very important factor. The moss, in fact, seems to grow better under poor lighting conditions. Better in the sense the colour seems richer and the fronds thicker. I have CO2 injection in most of my tanks but even in those without, the moss grows too, albeit more slowly. As for liquid fertilisers, I'm using Seachem at the present moment. But the last time I put any into the tanks was more than a month ago. Before, I use JBL. I usually use the cheapest fertilisers I can find.

Freddy, aka FC, has spent many Saturday afternoons in my house and he can testify that what I wrote here is true. I'm a sloppy aquatic gardener. When I fertilise, I do it haphazardly without bothering about how much exactly I put into my tanks. I hardly ever use the measuring cups. The moss also grows in tanks where I have never added liquid fertiliser.

I'm not trying to say that you can do the same thing and succeed in growing moss. But it only goes to show that it's not as difficult as many hobbyists think. Maybe there's something about my tap water that is just right for the moss. I really don't know as I find test kits to be a big bother but if you want to grow the moss real bad, maybe you should consider moving to somewhere around Bendemeer [ :Grin: ] 

Budak, who has seen my killifish raising trays will tell you that the moss is really a very tough plant. Even when kept in a shallow tray, under shade, without CO2 nor fertiliser, the moss remains alive for months.

Loh K L

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## wks

Hi timebomb, I went to your web-site last night. I must say this is a fantastic site![ :Grin: ] Although I'm not a killi fan, I enjoyed reading the info about this interesting fish. I have already bookmarked your site, keep up the really good work and add more interesting articles in future.

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## timebomb

Hi timebomb, I went to your web-site last night. I must say this is a fantastic site![ :Grin: ] 
----------------
Thanks for the compliments, Wks. I'm working on some new pages but it's a lot of work and I'm short on time. I'm trying to build a page which will show how I raise baby brine shrimp to adulthood. It's easy to raise the shrimp but hard to build the page  :Smile:  

Loh K L

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## FC

&amp;quot;First, the holes of the mesh. Fish sometimes will attempt to swim through the holes and get stuck halfway through.&amp;quot;
I experienced the same for my narrow java fern wall. My SAE is the victim... :Sad: 

&amp;quot;Freddy, aka FC, has spent many Saturday afternoons in my house and he can testify that what I wrote here is true.&amp;quot;
Enviously true, just cannot duplicate that for my tank[ :Embarassed: ]. Consider moving to Bendemeer… :Razz:  

“I'm a sloppy aquatic gardener.”
This is timebomb, he doses like a bomb and at a time he feel like it[ :Grin: ].

“Even when kept in a shallow tray, under shade, without CO2 nor fertiliser, the moss remains alive for months.”
If java moss is in demand, you know where to find.  :Wink:

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## hoppinghippo

timebomb: hahaha the way you said it makes me think your tap water is special, maybe there'll be lines of pple waiting to fill up at your house!

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## toledosun

hmm... maybe that's the answer, soft water. 

I've two batches of Taiwan moss from Chan, one in the office and the other at home, both under different conditions. I'll see which works. Many thanks, Timebomb.

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## jamesw

Hi everyone, what if I am not using a plastic mesh as the wall but the black 'rock-like' styroform?
How would I attach the moss to it, I want to show parts of the 'rock' and have more moss occupying the top of the wall. Is this naturally correct?

I think I saw one shop using staplers to hold the moss, they will rust but is it harmful to the fishes? 

Thanks

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