# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Catfishes >  Pleco ready to spawning?

## hck

I have a pair of albino BN in the community tank for nearly a year. 
However, these past few days, I noticed something unusual. The male has been chasing after the female. 
I also noticed the female got a big pinkish belly, I suppose that's egg.

The male has been in the cave for the past 2 days and female seemed to be waiting outside the cave.
however, every time she goes into the cave, she got chased out by the male within seconds. 
Today is 3rd day, I checked this morning, the female is still waiting outside the cave, belly still big, and occasionally I still saw female go in and got chased away again. 
Is this kind of a spawning behaviour? 
or is the male not interested, that's why he chased the female out of the cave?

----------


## Reforma

From what i know of if im not mistaken, normally is the male will try to trap the female from escaping from cave which he might be unsucessfull in this manner. Any updates?

----------


## johannes

i would say what you observed is the start to a spawning activity (given both parties are willing).

let me interpret your observation:

male inside cave/he chase female when she enter = he is claiming his territory, so anyother fish trying to take he will chase away.

female waiting outside/beside cave = this showed a ready female and she happens to like this male and his cave..

so when the male is ready/also like her, he will actually let her enter, then he will trap her, ranging from 1-few days (sometimes can even be a week long), after she left, you will see eggs and the male will guard the eggs till the young hatch in around 5 days.

----------


## Reforma

I was wondering as i too set up a 2ft breeding tank for my pair of albino bn, the male was first alone in tank and later female was introduced to the tank for 2 to 3 days to date, it seems they are fighting as their tails was all torn up. Does this indicate they don't like each other? Female is bloated, probably in breeding condition.

----------


## hck

I waited for so many days, nothing happen and I am very sure female got eggs. 
Didn't know what to do, so in the end, decided to move her to another male bn in another tank. 
Its been 3 days, she doesn't seem to be getting anywhere near the male's cave or rather the male has been in the cave all day long, not even sure if they even noticed each other's presence, ha....

Anyway, not sure if it is the right move by shifting her out or should I move her back to the 1st tank? 
Or just give her more time with the 2nd male and see if anything crops up? 
I am sure she is more interested in the first male bn, because they have been in the same tank for nearly a year and like I mentioned she stays just outside the cave hole for that few days peeping into the hole, finding chance to get in. 

Catching these buggers is really hard, just by catching this female, I actually injured her (got broken skin), treated the whole tank with salt, now recovered already.

----------


## Reforma

You should bring her back to the first male, change 75% water with slightly cooler temp to mimic rainy season and see how it goes. Read it from planetcatfish.

----------


## hck

Its been so many weeks since I returned the female to the 1st male and till now still no good news, even though I have seen the female *inside* the cave 3 times. 
Anyway, at least there is some improvement, at least this male pleco finally allowed the female to get inside the cave.

----------


## soltari007

Relax bro, just from reading I can feel your eyes staring into this cave nonstop. The plecos need some privacy to do their thing  :Wink:

----------


## khtee

agree with soltar007, give them more privacy. Check only once or twice per day.

----------


## hck

Oops...will stop peeping from now on, lol.

----------


## hck

hi again. Still no good news from this pair. Just 2 days ago, while doing WC, I saw this pair going in and out of the cave again, then I stood further away so I won't disturb them, but after such a long time in and out of the cave, I see the female's belly is still pinkish and huge the next day. Male is out of the cave, so I presumed the female haven't laid her egg.

I also found another pair in another tank having the same problem, the male and female will go in and out of cave for a long time, but in the end still no egg. This female's belly is also huge and pinkish.

What could possibly be the problem? Why is it so difficult for the female to lay egg? Problem with the cave? I have 2 different type of caves, 1 PVC and 1 clay specially for pleco.

----------


## khtee

lower your temp. add ice cube. Soften the water also.

----------


## hck

Thanks, but my ph is already at 5.5. No thermometer to check temperature, but I have reservations about adding ice because my discuses may not tolerate icy water, never tried, so not too sure about that. But maybe if I find a 2ft tank and move them out to their own tank, I will try that, they are now in the community tank.

----------


## johannes

you can probably leave them alone for some time and you may be surprised with the little ones when you least expect it.. :Grin:

----------


## hck

My only concern is my discuses, they may just eat up the eggs before I even knew it (they have big mouths, lol and can also eat up fries). That is why I always check the female BN to see if her belly is still huge, at least I know if she has laid her eggs, till now she's still huge.

Must I add more cave as camouflage or should I move them into their own tank?

----------


## johannes

hey bro, under normal circumstances, the eggs will be guarded by the male in the cave, so your discus would not have access to it... and when the eggs have hatched, usually the wrigglers will stay in the cave for sometime before they venture out of the cave.

so no worries, once you spot a wriggler/egg being kicked out, then it's alert mode; or you can shine the cave once a week to check if there's any spawn.. so that you can take note..

----------


## hck

Oh, then that makes things alot easier. So I just need to siphon out the fry when they venture out of the cave.

----------


## hck

One more question, is it safe to leave the fry in the tank with the adult discuses? If not, when should I remove if there is a spawn? Before the fries venture out or as soon as they venture out of cave? I saw this pair have alot of non-stop activity the past 3 days, hopefully theres a spawn coming.

----------


## johannes

you can either transfer the fries into breeding box or let them be in the main tank. i would say that some would be eaten the moment the discus spots them. but once they manage to escape and reach a certain size of e.g. 15 mm, i believe they would survive.

if you transfer them to breeder box the moment you notice the fries, you would have higher yield.

----------


## hck

> you can either transfer the fries into breeding box or let them be in the main tank. i would say that some would be eaten the moment the discus spots them. but once they manage to escape and reach a certain size of e.g. 15 mm, i believe they would survive.
> 
> if you transfer them to breeder box the moment you notice the fries, you would have higher yield.


hahaha, I got a surprise from another pair in another tank on sunday morning. The pair I have been talking about is hopeless, after 3 days of non-stop activity, still no egg. 

I actually saw the 1st cluster of egg without realising what that was until another larger cluster came out of the cave. I happened to be looking in on the fishes when I caught the male in the cave pushing out the 2nd cluster of eggs. Wooo... interesting. The eggs are now in a breeder box. I guess I have to wait for them to hatch and then have to start doing a search on how to go about it. Very excited about it now!!!

----------


## johannes

congrats bro, finally!!! :Grin: 

actually you should let the dad takes care of the eggs the next time until they hatch. then you harvest the wrigglers. this way you will have higher fry hatching rate. when you take the eggs out, they are prone to fungus or not hatching properly, you have to take over the dad's job so it would be hard work but still possible to make them all hatch.

----------


## hck

> congrats bro, finally!!!
> 
> actually you should let the dad takes care of the eggs the next time until they hatch. then you harvest the wrigglers. this way you will have higher fry hatching rate. when you take the eggs out, they are prone to fungus or not hatching properly, you have to take over the dad's job so it would be hard work but still possible to make them all hatch.


eh.., I don't understand, you mean I should put the eggs back into the cave for daddy to take care? and what is harvesting the wrigglers? how to harvest?

The eggs had been in the breeder box for 3 days already, is it too late to stuff back the eggs into the cave for daddy?

Oh, but then I read in many places that it isn't easy to raise pleco fry, most didn't manage to get past 1 mth old, so I am not that confident too. Anyway, since got egg, I try lo. If I never try, I will never know, so I must get more infor to help me along to reduce failure to the minimum. If this time fail, I hope still got chance to try again the next time round. Cross my finger this time round.

I am already getting the food ready, like decap Brineshrimp egg, hikari waffle, some flake food and I read somewhere that says, we have to avoid overfeeding or underfeeding or else these fries will either eat till bloated or be starved to death. Whoa, so confusing and seem so difficult leh, anyway quite challenging. I try try la.

----------


## johannes

since you have taken the eggs out then let them be.
what i meant was that the next time you noticed they spawned, you let the father guard the eggs until they hatch, assuming they spawned in a cave, then after you saw that the eggs have hatched, you can take the cave and pour the wrigglers into the breeder box.

you said that it has been 3 days so the eggs will hatch in ard 2 days time.

they will use up their yolk sac for about 10-12 days before they convert to solid food.

in your case it is ABN (more herbivorous), so they can graze on algae/biofilm for a longer time and they will still be fine. you can put either zuccini, some small DW (with or without algae), sunken Ketapang leaves....

----------


## Reforma

Air bubbles in breeder box to provide oxygen helps, do post some tank pics too. Congrats!

----------


## hck

> since you have taken the eggs out then let them be.
> what i meant was that the next time you noticed they spawned, you let the father guard the eggs until they hatch, assuming they spawned in a cave, then after you saw that the eggs have hatched, you can take the cave and pour the wrigglers into the breeder box.
> 
> you said that it has been 3 days so the eggs will hatch in ard 2 days time.
> 
> they will use up their yolk sac for about 10-12 days before they convert to solid food.
> 
> in your case it is ABN (more herbivorous), so they can graze on algae/biofilm for a longer time and they will still be fine. you can put either zuccini, some small DW (with or without algae), sunken Ketapang leaves....


Oh I see, if the eggs are in the cave I can leave them alone with dad, but if the eggs are outside, should I push it back into cave? because I actually saw the male pushing the whole cluster out of cave, that is why I picked it up before the rest of my fishes get at it.

May be I got the date wrong, this morning I saw some wrigglers already. Like you said since I took the eggs out, I had to do what daddy do, fanning. So I took a pippette and blew at it for some time, hahaha. I also saw fungus egg, I blew hard at it until it came off then suck away.

You said ketapang leaves, is the dried ones ok? or must be fresh? Another question, so I have to feed immediately as soon as I see the egg sac gone? What if I'm at work for many many hours when the sac is gone, will they starve to death during that few hours? There is no algae in the tank, don't know if got biofilm (you mean the slimy stuff on tank wall right?), the box look so clean.

----------


## hck

> Air bubbles in breeder box to provide oxygen helps, do post some tank pics too. Congrats!


I read somewhere also that says strong aeration, so I did just that, will have to wait till tomorrow to know if all the wrigglers are safe (cross my finger). I tried taking a closeup pict of the wriggler early this morning, maybe because of the low lighting problem, didn't turn out well. Will have to try again in the day this weekend, but this tank is in a position with low lighting, so I think may have problem taking good pict too.

----------


## johannes

> Oh I see, if the eggs are in the cave I can leave them alone with dad, but if the eggs are outside, should I push it back into cave? 
> 
> May be I got the date wrong, this morning I saw some wrigglers already. Like you said since I took the eggs out, I had to do what daddy do, fanning. So I took a pippette and blew at it for some time, hahaha. I also saw fungus egg, I blew hard at it until it came off then suck away.
> 
> Another question, so I have to feed immediately as soon as I see the egg sac gone? What if I'm at work for many many hours when the sac is gone, will they starve to death during that few hours? There is no algae in the tank, don't know if got biofilm (you mean the slimy stuff on tank wall right?), the box look so clean.


1, your male kicked the eggs out so you need to take over, which you did! :Grin:  some males do that, probably 1st timer.

2, i suggestes earlier to put small driftwood, moss, etc on the breeder box and you can put the them inside asap...so that they will be in time to develop adequate/more biofilm for the wrigglers to eat when their yolk sac has ran out. this way they have no chance to starve as they can graze around for small bits of food..

----------


## hck

> 1, your male kicked the eggs out so you need to take over, which you did! some males do that, probably 1st timer.
> 
> 2, i suggestes earlier to put small driftwood, moss, etc on the breeder box and you can put the them inside asap...so that they will be in time to develop adequate/more biofilm for the wrigglers to eat when their yolk sac has ran out. this way they have no chance to starve as they can graze around for small bits of food..


Oh, so DW means driftwood, I though you meant some kind of worm. Ok will go look for a small piece. The wrigglers were all out yesterday. I have more questions about raising them, maybe I should just start another thread. Let me collate what I want to ask 1st. Searching in the web is too time consuming, so ask here then get answer straight away. Thanks for all your help.

----------


## johannes

got pictures? please show them.. it's always nice to see wrigglers pics... :Grin:

----------


## hck

> got pictures? please show them.. it's always nice to see wrigglers pics...


haha, have been trying in vain to get some decent picts of the wrigglers (low lighting problem). I do not have a good camera to start with. 

Anyway, Just want to know if I can add algae ball into the breeder box instead of DW, because I'm not sure when I can go get a small piece of DW. I happen to have an algae ball in my shrimp tank. http://www.blueplanet.sg/plant_stock_list.htm

----------


## hck

One and only 1 more decent pict I think (had to use a torch light to help with lighting problem). The rest are all so blurry and over-exposed.

----------


## johannes

cute ABN wrigglers! :Smile:

----------


## hck

One more pict. Can't take nice closeup like celticfish.

----------


## johannes

wow, that's quite a number of wrigglers there.. :Kiss: 

what's the fry count like?

----------


## hck

> wow, that's quite a number of wrigglers there..
> 
> what's the fry count like?


More than 40 fry, but I am expecting a few more weak ones to go, is that too little or normal? Lost quite a number of bad eggs and many weak wrigglers. The egg sac was gone since late yesterday afternoon and I have started throwing in some wafer and decap Brine Shrimp, but I notice they only started grazing the wafer this morning. They sure look so cute.

By the way, how long should I keep these fries in the box before transferring them to their own tank?

----------


## johannes

that's a good number, by the way, it's normal to lose some fries here and there. :Opps: 
it's good news that you noticed they started grazing on algae wafer, at least they are converting to solid food well.
you can transfer them to their own tank in around a month/when they reach 1.5-2cm to be safe.

----------


## khtee

congratulations!!!! finally you make it  :Jump for joy:

----------


## hck

More pictures (_finally managed to get some good pictures because they come closer to my camera now, not closeup though_). Take a closer look at the before and after picture (_check out the wafer and air hose_). These fries sure eat up alot of those slime, all in just less than 12 hrs.

----------


## hck

> congratulations!!!! finally you make it


haha, hope I can keep them past 1 month, heard and read too many failures to really be too optimistic. I'm trying to learn from people's mistakes, but doesn't mean I will be free from the same mistakes most people make (_double and triple cross my finger_). Thanks anyway.

----------


## hck

> that's a good number, by the way, it's normal to lose some fries here and there.
> it's good news that you noticed they started grazing on algae wafer, at least they are converting to solid food well.
> you can transfer them to their own tank in around a month/when they reach 1.5-2cm to be safe.


Thanks so much for all your help.

----------


## johannes

the fries are looking good, and yes, they do love the slime found on your aquarium/equipment etc... perfect fry starter food... :Smile: 
too bad we don't have an excess of that... :Sad:  haha

----------

