# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Catfishes >  Sturisoma panamense (regal whiptail)

## Star-flog

Hi, does anyone come across/experience this suckermouth fish (as photo) and whether LFS sells this fish?  :Cool:  
Also, would it go well with Cherry Shrimp in planted tank?

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## arclaveus

I like tis fish too! But like u, i cant seem to find it as well...  :Crying:  anybody can supply us wif info on where to get tis "sucker"?  :Razz:

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## hwchoy

> Hi, does anyone come across/experience this suckermouth fish (as photo) and whether LFS sells this fish?  
> Also, would it go well with Cherry Shrimp in planted tank?



is this what they call the "helicopter"? there could be several species looking like this but saw at least one (about 5 inches including tail) in C328 yesterday, in the left hand tanks (when standing outside shop facing in).

btw, species name must not be capitalised, hence _Sturisoma panamense_.

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## andrewtyr

yea, it's quite amazing that c328 has one million products in store, they can remember everything, price. Has anyone been misquoted before?  :Grin:  

yea, I think it is what people commonly call helicopter. It is a community fish and an effective algae crew. However, they do grow up to a sizable size. NA also has them, a pretty common fish.

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## Star-flog

I was in NA few weeks ago saw a few in its main tank and the price was $9 per piece but I think no more already?  :Exasperated:

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## cairocks

If it is the "helicopter' then saw a few at Y618 last week. Can't remember price but they have different price for small and big ones. Was slightly tempted to get it but did not as dunno will it cause havoc to my plants. Bad experience with pleco last time.

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## stormhawk

The helicopter pleco is _Sturisomatichthys leightoni_. This panamense is a much larger species I think.

I did see young leightoni for sale at c328 some time ago, but not panamense.

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## Star-flog

> The helicopter pleco is _Sturisomatichthys leightoni_. This panamense is a much larger species I think.
> 
> I did see young leightoni for sale at c328 some time ago, but not panamense.


 The sturisoma panamense has got the very beautiful tails and the growth size is about 5 to 6 inches. It does not look big becasue of slim body build and nice addition to planted tank..  :Roll Eyes:

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## ryo

I think is is called royal farlowella  :Exasperated:

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## akoh

Commonly, they are known as Royal Twig Suckermouth Catfish !, they can grow to 7 to 8 ". I do breed them ! my latest batch are about an inch, if you are interested ! let me know ! Cheers !  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

I hope this "monster" will not eat my cherry shrimps!!  :Opps:

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## akoh

> I hope this "monster" will not eat my cherry shrimps!!


They're algae eater ! so don't worry !  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

> They're algae eater ! so don't worry !


 Nice meeting you and collected the _ Sturisoma panamense_ and it's very beautiful and I put it in the main tank.
Unforunately, the tetra actualy attacked one of the small one. And bite off a portion of its finnage  :Crying:  . Decided to put it into the shrimp tank. The question: Will finnage grow back or it will die soon?

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## akoh

> Unforunately, the tetra actualy attacked one of the small one. And bite off a portion of its finnage  . Decided to put it into the shrimp tank. The question: Will finnage grow back or it will die soon?


With TLC it shouldn't die and the damaged fin should grow back in no time !. 
Nice to meet you too ! hope you had enjoyed viewing PlecoHut ! Cheers !  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

> With TLC it shouldn't die and the damaged fin should grow back in no time !. 
> Nice to meet you too ! hope you had enjoyed viewing PlecoHut ! Cheers !


 Thanks and my kids will love it. You're a Pro for breeding Pleco and totally impressed with your 9 Pleco's tanks.

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## Star-flog

PelcoHut, is there any commerical food available for _Sturisoma panamense_  and any brand recommended?  :Knockout:

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## akoh

> PelcoHut, is there any commerical food available for _Sturisoma panamense_  and any brand recommended?


Try Hikari Algae wafer or Sinking wafer , They luv it !  :Smile:

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## arclaveus

Thanks alot Allen! Beautiful Plecos u haf in ur home!  :Well done:  Thanks for the introduction on Plecos too! Cheers mate!  :Wink:

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## Star-flog

> Try Hikari Algae wafer or Sinking wafer , They luv it !


 Much appreciated. Will get some for my 2 little panamense, how often/amount I need to feed them apart from the algae already has in the tank?

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## akoh

Hi arclaveus, - PlecoHut is always close but never closed ! so just give me a thinker if you wanna have an in-depth introduction to plecs !  :Grin:  . Oh Yah ! hows' the 2 fellas ? hope they are doing ok ! 

Hi Star-flog, juvenile don't eat that much ! so just go easy on the amount you feed ( one or two is enough ) and once a day is sufficient ! Cheers !  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

> Try _Hikari Algae wafer_ or Sinking wafer , They luv it !


 Brought one big package of Hikari Algae that costs me S$9.50.  :Surprised:  

Even I just put one Algae wafer. The 2 little juvenile can never finish. Should I just leave it in the tank or remove it after 1 - 2 hours? Is this true that this fish will only active/eat at night?

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## andrewtyr

> Brought one big package of Hikari Algae that costs me S$9.50.  
> 
> Even I just put one Algae wafer. The 2 little juvenile can never finish. Should I just leave it in the tank or remove it after 1 - 2 hours? Is this true that this fish will only active/eat at night?


Hikari wafer is ok. It will not dirty the water so much. If you want to play safe can also remove them. Next time, can just snap a tablet into 2 and pop 1 in.

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## Star-flog

> Hikari wafer is ok. It will not dirty the water so much. If you want to play safe can also remove them. Next time, can just snap a tablet into 2 and pop 1 in.


 Thanks. I think next feeding time will be a snap will be enough. They seem not to eat much/or at all. I started to luv this Pleco already...

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## jja

> Brought one big package of Hikari Algae that costs me S$9.50.  
> 
> Even I just put one Algae wafer. The 2 little juvenile can never finish. Should I just leave it in the tank or remove it after 1 - 2 hours? Is this true that this fish will only active/eat at night?


what i usually do feed them on alternate days.. before i go to sleep, i break the algae wafers into half or quarter ( trial and error to see the amount they are able; to consume) and throw into the tank... try not to over feed it or leave teh food too long inside. as u have two juveniles a quarter iece will more mor ethan sufficient. their tummy size is also very small anyway

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## Star-flog

> what i usually do feed them on alternate days.. before i go to sleep, i break the algae wafers into half or quarter ( trial and error to see the amount they are able; to consume) and throw into the tank... try not to over feed it or leave teh food too long inside. as u have two juveniles a quarter iece will more mor ethan sufficient. their tummy size is also very small anyway


 I agree, they do know seems to eat much. would _panamense_ also eat wood that I placed in the tank?

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## jja

> I agree, they do know seems to eat much. would _panamense_ also eat wood that I placed in the tank?



wood will be good for them to chew and cling on two. best if can have caves for them

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## Star-flog

Started to get serious on this fish.  :Jump for joy:  
Would _Sturisoma panamense_ (regal whiptail) suitable for the planted tank? I plan to set-up a 2ft cube tank for this Pleco, with some mosses, and some shrimps and driftwoods. Any suggestion?
When the tank is ready, would buy more panamense from akoh......

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## Star-flog

Hi everyone knows whether _Sturisoma panamense_ (regal whiptail) and can live together with _Farlowella acus_ (as photo below)? Are they sharing the same kind of food, living space etc..  :Cool:

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## akoh

Hi star-flog ! go easy on the feeding ! reckon a qtr pc should be more than enough !. Both Panamensa and Acus are very peaceful twigs hence they'll do fine in the same tank !. 

They are ok in planted tank BUT you have to go easy planting ! 

Stocks are running low ! if you want them you better give mine a thinker !  :Grin:

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## Star-flog

> Hi star-flog ! go easy on the feeding ! reckon a qtr pc should be more than enough !. Both Panamensa and Acus are very peaceful twigs hence they'll do fine in the same tank !. 
> 
> They are ok in planted tank BUT you have to go easy planting ! 
> 
> Stocks are running low ! if you want them you better give mine a thinker !


do you breed _Farlowella acuas_ as well? If so and any spare to sell?  :Roll Eyes:

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## akoh

> do you breed _Farlowella acuas_ as well? If so and any spare to sell?


I've not try breeding Farlowella Acuas ! well ! if I can get my hands on an adult pair ! I might give it ago !  :Grin:

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## Star-flog

> I've not try breeding Farlowella Acuas ! well ! if I can get my hands on an adult pair ! I might give it ago !


Do you know any LFS selling _Farlowella acuas_? Now preparing 2ft Cube tank for 2 _regal whiptail_ (from you) and if add-in 2 acuas in the same tank will be perfect! 
One member mentioned that it's okay to have 1 male and 2 females twigs but not 2 males and 2 females, they will fight for the females, haha..  :Evil:

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## Star-flog

As quoted from the www.planetcatfish.com

*This fish is highly endangered and could easily become extinct in the next twenty years. Although numerous aquarium books show photos labelled as Farlowella acus they are most likely all incorrect. It is very doubtful that this fish has ever been exported for the aquarium trade.*  

...highly endangered species and to be extinct in next 20 years?

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## akoh

Most hobbists mistaken Vittata ( longer snout ) as Acuas ( shorter snout ). I sometime get confuse too !  :Confused:

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## Star-flog

> Most hobbists mistaken Vittata ( longer snout ) as Acuas ( shorter snout ). I sometime get confuse too !


 Therefore, I can imagine no one should have this fish if it is to be so rare?  :Crying:

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## Star-flog

> my batch of panamense hatch liao but still too small to sell hehehe.... must wait until bigger heheeh...


 Hi jja, good thing can wait, I've the impression that panamense is easy to breed, true?  :Roll Eyes:

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## akoh

If you have a pair, correct set-up and quality water ! sure you can breed them easily !  :Grin:

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## Star-flog

> If you have a pair, correct set-up and quality water ! sure you can breed them easily !


 OK, so it has to be on its own tank instead of community tank, right? Remembered you said the different btw male and female is the tail. The male one goes up and female goes down?

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## akoh

Star-flog ! you can easily tell them apart by the " chew chew " on its gill cover ! the male has the " chew chew " but the female is " botak or clean shaven " ! no " chew chew " . The tail thingy is more for L046 zebra !  :Grin:  

Bro jja ! last evening while servicing my cannister filter, I found 2pcs of > 1.5" Royal Twig fries in it ! man ! god knows how they survive in it ! btw how your babies coming along ! better check your filter system and cover the inlet  :Grin:  .

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## Star-flog

> Star-flog ! you can easily tell them apart by the " chew chew " on its gill cover ! the male has the " chew chew " but the female is " botak or clean shaven " ! no " chew chew " . The tail thingy is more for L046 zebra !  
> 
> Bro jja ! last evening while servicing my cannister filter, I found 2pcs of > 1.5" Royal Twig fries in it ! man ! god knows how they survive in it ! btw how your babies coming along ! better check your filter system and cover the inlet  .


 Of course, your is big and adult size can tell. My is still my small and can not tell whether they've "chew chew" or not? It seems the regal whiptail growing fast.. the broken tail already grew back and nice...  :Wink:

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## jja

> Star-flog ! you can easily tell them apart by the " chew chew " on its gill cover ! the male has the " chew chew " but the female is " botak or clean shaven " ! no " chew chew " . The tail thingy is more for L046 zebra !  
> 
> Bro jja ! last evening while servicing my cannister filter, I found 2pcs of > 1.5" Royal Twig fries in it ! man ! god knows how they survive in it ! btw how your babies coming along ! better check your filter system and cover the inlet  .


did some modify for the inlet... last check before i modify the inlet i found 8 fries inside.. now they are in the small tank for them to grow big... damm I wish i can find the inlet that I have been eyeing leh.. heheheh now inside small tank got about 20 fries growing and eating the leafy vegetable... hehehe

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## Star-flog

:Cool:  To bother some Pleco's friend again, if I want to breed regal whiptail, it is okay to mix with L204 (Flash Pleco) in the same 2ft tank? Would L204 eats the offspring of regal whiptail?

Thinking to have 2 or 3 different types of Pleco for the start...

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## akoh

> To bother some Pleco's friend again, if I want to breed regal whiptail, it is okay to mix with L204 (Flash Pleco) in the same 2ft tank? Would L204 eats the offspring of regal whiptail?
> 
> Thinking to have 2 or 3 different types of Pleco for the start...


Most likely the L204 will whack the fries !  :Sad:

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## Star-flog

> Most likely the L204 will whack the fries !


 I thought L204 either eats wood or vegetable but not meats? Your 'whack' meant eats?  :Opps:

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## ranmasatome

"whack" probably means "eat them so fast you dont even know that your whiptail gave birth... yummy!!"

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## Star-flog

> "whack" probably means "eat them so fast you dont even know that your whiptail gave birth... yummy!!"


 I see! So L204 not only eats wood but also meats.. dangerous!  :Grin:

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## akoh

Bro, they are omni ! hence they will eat meaty stuffs too ! mine luv to eat BW.  :Razz:

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## Star-flog

> Bro, they are omni ! hence they will eat meaty stuffs too ! mine luv to eat BW.


 Omni, so they'll everything in tank (got to think twice, any wood eating Pleco only eats wood)! 

Will go Qian Hu and Aquo Meadows, both at Sungei Tengah late this afternoon to check whether L204 still available...  :Idea:  Thanks.

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## akoh

> any wood eating Pleco only eats wood !


Panaque is " the main plec " that eats wood ! but that is only part of their diet ! they also need other stuffs too ! eg algae wafer, BW, protein pellets, vege etc  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

> Originally Posted by Star-flog
> 
> any wood eating Pleco only eats wood ! 
> 
> 
> Panaque is " the main plec " that eats wood ! but that is only part of their diet ! they also need other stuffs too ! eg algae wafer, BW, protein pellets, vege etc


 OK, so there is no such thing as wood eating Pleco (only eats wood Pleco) ?  :Surprised:  

Been to HQ yesterday, all L204 sold out but saw L14 also quite interesting selling $20. But after checking and adult size can be 12cm. Too big for me, can not handle.  :Jump for joy:

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## akoh

> but saw L14 also quite interesting selling $20. But after checking and adult size can be 12cm. Too big for me, can not handle.


L014 can grow more than 12cm ! my L014 is 14 " !

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## Star-flog

> Most hobbists mistaken Vittata ( longer snout ) as Acuas ( shorter snout ). I sometime get confuse too !


 Hi akoh, I've been to C328 today and spotted this fish very similar to either *Vittata* or *Acuas* but not sure which is which? I saw at least 5 (at least 4" long) of them in the same tank selling 12 bucks per piece. Worth investigating.....

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## akoh

> Hi akoh, I've been to C328 today and spotted this fish very similar to either *Vittata* or *Acuas* but not sure which is which? I saw at least 5 (at least 4" long) of them in the same tank selling 12 bucks per piece. Worth investigating.....


Most likely Vittata lah ! if acuas all the plecoFanatics sure " sapu " all !  :Grin:  I will check it up if I'm around that area .  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

> Most likely Vittata lah ! if acuas all the plecoFanatics sure " sapu " all !  I will check it up if I'm around that area .


 i see, so _Vittata_ is very common and not worth 12 bucks!  :Smile:

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## akoh

> i see, so _Vittata_ is very common and not worth 12 bucks!


12 bucks is ok lah ! they used to be 20 to 30 bucks !  :Smile:

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## Star-flog

> 12 bucks is ok lah ! they used to be 20 to 30 bucks !


 OK, sure would buy this fish for my planted tank and seems to eat algae. The growth size is 6", not too big. Thanks.  :Jump for joy:

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## Star-flog

> Ok ! Ciya !


 The two small panamense got from you just now settle down nicely in my newly set-up 2ft tank which it's a open top tank. Should I make a cover for it? Would they jump out? 

Also, my next target would be L27C, very impressive fish!  :Well done:  Thanks.

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## jja

> The two small panamense got from you just now settle down nicely in my newly set-up 2ft tank which it's a open top tank. Should I make a cover for it? Would they jump out? 
> 
> Also, my next target would be L27C, very impressive fish!  Thanks.



bro u been bitten deeply by the pleco bug... congrats...  :Jump for joy:  notice that u staying in punggol too, same area as me... well if u want a royal i might wanna release one of them...  :Roll Eyes:  see how.

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## Star-flog

> bro u been bitten deeply by the pleco bug... congrats...  notice that u staying in punggol too, same area as me... well if u want a royal i might wanna release one of them...  see how.


 You've Royol Pleco, which one? accordingly to akoh, they're so many different type, such L27, L27C, watermelon etc etc...  :Roll Eyes:

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## jja

> You've Royol Pleco, which one? accordingly to akoh, they're so many different type, such L27, L27C, watermelon etc etc...


yup royals, there are a different types..

To start off here is a short profile list

L27 can be broken into L27a, L27b, L27c- They are from Brazil, Rio. the river source are Tocantins,Xingu, Maranhao,Araguai and Tapajos, and hence they get their names from there

L90 is from Peru. the Iquitos region

L190 is from Columbia but there are some claims that there are some found in Venezuela also

L191 is also from Columbia

L203 is from Peru, Upper Rio Ucayali

L330 is also known as the watermelon is found in Columbia in the Rio Gueja

Some claims that the LDA 29 is also a panaque from Peru.. i am not sure about this

LDA 63 is also from the xingu river

that is all i roughly know. hope it helps

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## Star-flog

> yup royals, there are a different types..
> 
> To start off here is a short profile list
> 
> L27 can be broken into L27a, L27b, L27c- They are from Brazil, Rio. the river source are Tocantins,Xingu, Maranhao,Araguai and Tapajos, and hence they get their names from there
> 
> L90 is from Peru. the Iquitos region
> 
> L190 is from Columbia but there are some claims that there are some found in Venezuela also
> ...


 Wow! That is quite a list for just Royal Pleco.  :Well done:  I guess L27C is the nicer of all? is there one call Plantium Royal Pleco? Much appreciated and learnt something today.

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## jja

> Wow! That is quite a list for just Royal Pleco.  I guess L27C is the nicer of all? is there one call Plantium Royal Pleco? Much appreciated and learnt something today.


Nice is subjective lah... some people are crazy about bristlenose and to some they are mean ugly looking monsters.. Royals some like thick bland bands as the ultmaie looking. some swear by fully spotted as the champion.. there even those who stand firm saying the royal with the longest whiptail is the best... real subjective.. to each royal lover their own choice. Yes there is a royal called the Platinium.. it could be from a different river or just a varient...*shrug* that is my guess.. think better revert back to the main topic rather than sway away.. hheehe hope to meet up with ya soon since u staying so near by

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## Star-flog

> Nice is subjective lah... some people are crazy about bristlenose and to some they are mean ugly looking monsters.. Royals some like thick bland bands as the ultmaie looking. some swear by fully spotted as the champion.. there even those who stand firm saying the royal with the longest whiptail is the best... real subjective.. to each royal lover their own choice. Yes there is a royal called the Platinium.. it could be from a different river or just a varient...*shrug* that is my guess.. think better revert back to the main topic rather than sway away.. hhehe hope to meet up with ya soon since u staying so near by


 Sure, you're very experience Pleco breeder like Akoh. Before closing off this, can Royals live together with Flash Pleco and regal whiptail in the same planted tank? They all eat aglae wafer right?

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## jja

> Sure, you're very experience Pleco breeder like Akoh. Before closing off this, can Royals live together with Flash Pleco and regal whiptail in the same planted tank? They all eat aglae wafer right?



i am not as expereince as Akoh but we are buddies. what i know is mostly what i have picked up from him  :Grin:  he is a "big bro" to me  :Cool:  . my own opinion is that best to let them each have their own tank space. more focus. yup they enjoy algae wafers

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## Star-flog

> i am not as expereince as Akoh but we are buddies. what i know is mostly what i have picked up from him  he is a "big bro" to me  . my own opinion is that best to let them each have their own tank space. more focus. yup they enjoy algae wafers


 Thanks thanks and thanks..I brought 3 pcs of Flash Pleco (size about ~ 1" to 1.5") and they're very cute and adorable. I start to love Pleco more than planted tank for now??

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## akoh

Star-flog ! Royal Twigs are not jumper ! hence dun worry too much !. L204 juveniles are fragile and need more TLC ( Tender loving care ) have fun !  :Grin:  

There are also various variant in L090, they are L090a, L090b, L090c and L090d, the distinct difference between them is the body colouration, They are from Peru.

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## Star-flog

> Star-flog ! Royal Twigs are not jumper ! hence dun worry too much !. L204 juveniles are fragile and need more TLC ( Tender loving care ) have fun !  
> 
> There are also various variant in L090, they are L090a, L090b, L090c and L090d, the distinct difference between them is the body colouration, They are from Peru.


Now, I got 3 juveniles L204 + 2 regal whiptail juveniles in 2ft tank. Also added in two strong internal power filter and lots of driftwoods. The only diet is Aglae wafer, nothing else. OK? They seem very happy living together and moving around a lot (especially near the strong current area). Very nice...what can I say!  :Roll Eyes:  

Thinking of adding 1 L134, don't know okay or not? Cheers!

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## Star-flog

L134 = L046 look-a-like ??  :Angel:

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## coryfav

Allen, from an innocent query on the 'helicopter', you've turned another algae-eater-searcher to a plecorymaniac!  :Jump for joy:  

jja, time to start L046 breeding program too!  :Well done:

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## coryfav

> L134 = L046 look-a-like ??


They look quite different, but if you've been staring at the L046 for a long long time without being able to get your hands on them, you may eventually fall in love with the likes of L134 and some 'Chocolate Zebras'. Like I did.  :Grin:

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## jja

> Allen, from an innocent query on the 'helicopter', you've turned another algae-eater-searcher to a plecorymaniac!  
> 
> jja, time to start L046 breeding program too!


nah, me not into L46... me still like pseudas and whiptails.. L46 nice but maybe not my cup of tea..  :Cool:  only wish now is for approval to have another tank ehehehh...

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## Star-flog

> They look quite different, but if you've been staring at the L046 for a long long time without being able to get your hands on them, you may eventually fall in love with the likes of L134 and some 'Chocolate Zebras'. Like I did.


 Yup...I'm now exactly in that situation. Nevertheless, isn't it L134 lovely too?  :Roll Eyes:  
Need to get a little more experience on Pleco keeping before go into L046, the ultimate!! THANKS.

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## akoh

> Allen, from an innocent query on the 'helicopter', you've turned another algae-eater-searcher to a plecorymaniac!  
> 
> jja, time to start L046 breeding program too!


Flor ! the heart is weak and the force is strong !. Recoup from the " ill name of plecs " we must !  :Grin:

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## jja

> Hi jja, PM my contact information. I heard you're going to breed L046? good and count me in if you've any offspring later?



maybe will try breeding some other types lah... planning to use a 3 footer for a project heheheh.... well if i succesful with zebra i will count you in .. onz ahhh

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## Star-flog

> maybe will try breeding some other types lah... planning to use a 3 footer for a project heheheh.... well if i succesful with zebra i will count you in .. onz ahhh


 No problem. Thinking to custom made a 4ft tank just for Pleco..4ft x 1ft x 1ft (narrow long tank) to go with my decor. Hope not too expensive.

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## jja

> No problem. Thinking to custom made a 4ft tank just for Pleco..4ft x 1ft x 1ft (narrow long tank) to go with my decor. Hope not too expensive.


a good tank maker that I know of is David ( QWS Tank Connections), his tanks are good and reliable. Maybe you can give him a call and arrange for him to advice and give his opinion for the tank you have in mind. Friendly fella and helpful. For me i prefer tanks with depth...  :Wink:  do hope to see ur tank soon  :Jump for joy:

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## Star-flog

> a good tank maker that I know of is David ( QWS Tank Connections), his tanks are good and reliable. Maybe you can give him a call and arrange for him to advice and give his opinion for the tank you have in mind. Friendly fella and helpful. For me i prefer tanks with depth...  do hope to see ur tank soon


 Yupp, I just jointed Planet Catfish forum recently and posted a question on custom made a 4ft Pleco tank. 

Initially I was thinking to go for 4ft x 1ft x 1ft  (the long and landscape look and try to be different  :Grin:  ) but various members from UK & USA commented/advised to go for 4ft(L) x 1.5ft(H) x 2ft(W)  and can hold a lot of water. Good size, can be expensive to make!  :Opps:

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## akoh

Star-flog ! I got my 4'x2'x2' x 1/2 " tank from David and the " damage " is below 250 bucks !. Super customer service ! I called in the morning and he delivered the tank in the afternoon ! Champion !  :Well done:

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## Star-flog

> Star-flog ! I got my 4'x2'x2' x 1/2 " tank from David and the " damage " is below 250 bucks !. Super customer service ! I called in the morning and he delivered the tank in the afternoon ! Champion !


 akoh, thanks for the info. I called Soon Heng for the price and also very good. Actually I'm still in the planning stage whether to go 4ft or 5ft so that I can buy and house more Royals  :Grin:  
Have you been to the aquarama show yesterday, how was it and worth going? I would be there in Satursday morning...

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## akoh

> akoh, thanks for the info. I called Soon Heng for the price and also very good. Actually I'm still in the planning stage whether to go 4ft or 5ft so that I can buy and house more Royals  
> Have you been to the aquarama show yesterday, how was it and worth going? I would be there in Satursday morning...


Bigger volume are easier to control and maintain hence go for bigger tank.

I was there the entire afternoon, any exhibition relating to fish keeping is alway good lah !  :Grin:  moreover I got a few items at bargain price !  :Well done:

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## RonWill

> I tried cucumber yesterday and they luv it !


 Hi 'akoh' (or is that Allen?),
Whiptails are not strictly herbivorous but omnivorous, and will enjoy an occasional snack of tubifex. My _sturisoma_ likes cucumbers, carrots, melons and lettuce, along with cory tablets and algae wafers.

I like these fishes but not well versed with them. Will appreciate if you can distinguish whether mine are _Sturisoma panamense_ (aka Regal Whiptail) or _Sturisoma aureum_.

The adult pair which I bought about 3 weeks back, has spawned and I'll be most grateful if you have advice in feeding/caring for newly hatched fry.

Here's a pic of mommy guarding the eggs (while daddy goes for coffee breaks  :Grin:  )

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## akoh

Yes ! Allen here !  :Grin:  . Reckon your's is panamensa. 
Congrats ! the eggs takes about 5 to 6 days to hatch.
The fries are pretty small hence the inlet of your filter system need to be covered ( with layer of wool ).
At this stage I usually feed them with a mixture of Algae wafer and fresh vege like lettuce or kialan ( just the leaves ). Cheers !  :Smile:

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## RonWill

Thanks for the response, Allen. I have a couple more questions so that I can fully prepare myself when the fry do hatch.

From your experience and observation, do the newly hatched fry cling onto the walls or lie on gravel. My previous spawn, quite long ago, were not active feeders and stayed mostly on the tank wall, slowly wasting away. Sadly, I was never able to raise their fry to juvenile stage, let alone reach adulthood.

During that time, I made a blend from potatoes, spinach, carrots, vitamins, spirulina, japanese seaweed and cory tablets, but only the adults will eat. Fry don't seem to realize that it is food  :Exasperated:  The spirulina/agar agar combo didn't work for me either.

The _sturisoma_'s present home is 24x18x18in and perhaps that's alot of space to seach for food. Have you, or anyone else, tried rolling off the eggs and transferring them to a separate smaller hatchery? I know it works with corys but read online that the male "*appeared to help the process by chewing vigorously at the egg's outer membrane*". I have not seen this personally, so I can't confirm what was written. How about you?

BTW, are there distinct differences between _panamense_ and _aureum_?

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## jja

Hi there, hope i am able to reply this for Allen..

most of the time the fries will stay close to any area that is "comfortable". And most of teh time they will not move around much to look for food. they will strat to get their feeds from the egg sac that they hatch from. How i feed my fries to grow will be to introdue them to "kailan" leaves. this has been a very effective way to "help" them grow. Place the leaves as close to them as possible. So far many batches of my fries have grown up and some are 3 to 4 inch big already. I usually avoid using potatoes, spinach, carrots, vitamins, spirulina, japanese seaweed and cory tablets( that u have indicated). Yes usually the adults will be the ones who will eat them. Fry don't seem to realize that it is food. start the fries of with leaves 

What i do is to siphon them ( the eggs) into a smaller tank by itself seperately or use a hatching tank/net in the main tank. Hope my answers and input are of help.

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## RonWill

Thanks, "jja" (how can I address you?). Any suggestions that can help see the fry through to juvenile stage, is always welcomed (even if it takes me some time to digest the info).

I'm puzzled why kailan leaves is preferred over spinach, when both are also green. I prefer to blanch the greens, if served whole but raw if blended. By blanching, it's either a quick dip in boiling water or microwave for a minute or two. This helps to break down the fibres and presumably, easier for the fish to rasp and digest.

Is there any particular reason why you'd avoid what I'm using? Cloudy water, blended food breaking up too easily? If fed sparingly, I don't have problems with either issue. What do you feed your adults with? Can't be only kailan, right?

If the eggs are removed for separate hatching, do the fry have any problem breaking free from the chorion (egg shell/membrane)?

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## akoh

> Thanks for the response, Allen. I have a couple more questions so that I can fully prepare myself when the fry do hatch.
> 
> From your experience and observation, do the newly hatched fry cling onto the walls or lie on gravel. My previous spawn, quite long ago, were not active feeders and stayed mostly on the tank wall, slowly wasting away. Sadly, I was never able to raise their fry to juvenile stage, let alone reach adulthood.
> 
> During that time, I made a blend from potatoes, spinach, carrots, vitamins, spirulina, japanese seaweed and cory tablets, but only the adults will eat. Fry don't seem to realize that it is food  The spirulina/agar agar combo didn't work for me either.
> 
> The _sturisoma_'s present home is 24x18x18in and perhaps that's alot of space to seach for food. Have you, or anyone else, tried rolling off the eggs and transferring them to a separate smaller hatchery? I know it works with corys but read online that the male "*appeared to help the process by chewing vigorously at the egg's outer membrane*". I have not seen this personally, so I can't confirm what was written. How about you?
> 
> BTW, are there distinct differences between _panamense_ and _aureum_?


Hi Ron, 

The distinct difference between Panamensa and Aureum are 
- Size : Panamensa max. is 9 to 10 " and Aureum max is 6 to 7".
- Shape or profile : from the plan view, Panamensa are broader and Aureum are slender. 

Based on my observation, the newly hatched fries don't stay at one location ! they are " all over the shop "  :Grin:  . 

As mentioned in my earlier posting, I have very good result with kailan, the fresh kailan leaf ( are harder as compare to spinach or lettuce ) stay intact for a good couple of days without soiling the water !, reckon a blanched or boiled vege will breakdown easily and will mess up the tank !  :Sad:  . Moreover fresh vege ( being hard ) helps the fries to develop stronger teeth !  :Grin: . Remember ! in their natural habitat, what they feed on are fresh algae, fallen leaves, fruits etc So ! don't spoil them by giving them all the " blended food "  :Grin: . As for the adults, Hikari algae wafer is all you need ! don't need to go thru' all that hassle !  :Grin:  coz' a single algae disc contain > 20% of protein ! very good ! .

My adults usually laid the eggs on a pvc tubing ( facing the on-coming current from a Powerhead ) and daddy as usual will fan and CLEAN ( probably mistaken for vigorous chewing ) the eggs !. On the fifth or sixth day ( just before hatching ) I'll transfer the eggs ( still intact on the pvc tubing ) to a 2 footer ( have to ensure the water parameter is same as the parent's tank ). Once hatched, I'll cover the filtering system and powerhead inlet ! if not, the fries sure kenna suck into the cannister !  :Grin: . Cheers !

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## jja

ron.. u can call me alex. and Allen has answered the queries u asked me so i guess no need for me to reply kekekeke .. cheers  :Flame:

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## RonWill

Allen & Allex,
Thanks for the details but here's one more  :Opps:  Let's see if anyone can figured out what happened.

2 days ago, I transferred some eggs to a separate hatchery so that I can closely observe the embryol development. As far as I could tell, all eggs were viable.

Today, while taking closeup pictures of the 6 day old eggs, I'm puzzled to see this....


... any ideas??

This same spawn is also being discussed at *my little corner*

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## ranmasatome

Whats wrong with those images?? they look okay to me...

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## RonWill

Picture-wise, there's nothing wrong but I did forget to add that most of my images are 'clickable', ie. click for larger resolution.

From the big picture, you can see that there are 2 dead fry and 1 still-birth, presumably premature. (ok, the last one is harder to tell from just a picture)

I just check the hatchery and guess what?  :Jump for joy:   :Jump for joy:   :Jump for joy:

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## jja

> Picture-wise, there's nothing wrong but I did forget to add that most of my images are 'clickable', ie. click for larger resolution.
> 
> From the big picture, you can see that there are 2 dead fry and 1 still-birth, presumably premature. (ok, the last one is harder to tell from just a picture)
> 
> I just check the hatchery and guess what?



ron this is the egg sac yolk that i was telling you about... the fries will get thie rnutrient food from this egg sac for the first few days. death are unavoidable but they still happen.. congrats on the new brrod!!!  :Jump for joy:

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## jja

> Allen & Allex,
> Thanks for the details but here's one more  Let's see if anyone can figured out what happened.
> 
> 2 days ago, I transferred some eggs to a separate hatchery so that I can closely observe the embryol development. As far as I could tell, all eggs were viable.
> 
> Today, while taking closeup pictures of the 6 day old eggs, I'm puzzled to see this....
> 
> 
> ... any ideas??
> ...


THEY HATCHED!!!! CONGRATS PAPA!!!!

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## kray

Hi Guys,

I have 2 different clutches of eggs in my comm tank now. I don't think the babies would survive when they hatch in the tank, which is also being occuppied by barbs, cories, otos & apistos. Any advice on when to take out the eggs, and how to do so? Any suggest on the set-up for nursery tank?

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## SCOPE

Perpare another fry growing tank - grow it with lot of algae.
When the eggs are about to hatch, just use a penknife to remove them and transfer to the fry tank.
(Remember that the water should be the same as that from the main tank.

In this way, i manage to save half the fries each time.

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## nostalgia

wow! Keep the photos of the fries coming!  :Smile:

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## kray

No time to take out the first clutch of eggs. No babies in sight, probably all became snacks for the other inhabitants. Have just taken out the second clutch, hopefully some of the fries would survive. Would be interesting to see them grow.

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## SCOPE

One these fries get through the 30days point (around 2cm long), they are quite stable already. Till this stage they only can take in algae.

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## farisy rafsanjani

this one of breeder from indonesia, maybe you can send him an email to ask about this panamense https://youtu.be/Ley2HPCW4-I

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