# Killies Import > Non-Killie Segment >  What worm is that? Kill all my fish in the tank.

## keehoe

Hi can someone take a look at the pictures in my gallery and tell me what worm is that? Currently i have one tray and one tank of fish wipe out mysteriously.

http://www.killies.com/forum/modules...view_photo.php

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## PohSan

Can't see clearly but it looked like hydra to me.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

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## stormhawk

Yes those are Hydra. They are fry killers. I believe some fellas here have a good method of dealing with this pest. I have never encountered Hydra before in my tanks so my experience with them is rather limited.

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## timebomb

It's definitely Hydra. Click here to see a better picture.

Hydra are known to eat fry but I supposed it has to be big Hydra and small fry.

Loh K L

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## keehoe

Does this hydra thing propagate? Through air? Is my fry in the near by tray endangered? I think it is feeding on my cherry and yamato shrimp baby..... Now i am prepare to throw everything away. But just incase i get this problem again in my other tank. I think it is best that i pratice zaping these beast.

Thanks for identifying that for me. Now is my turn to do R&D.
Revenge is a must. Since it is the primary suspect responsible to at least 3 of my fry and many baby cherry shrimp.

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## hobbit6003

> Does this hydra thing propagate? Through air? Is my fry in the near by tray endangered? I think it is feeding on my cherry and yamato shrimp baby..... Now i am prepare to throw everything away. But just incase i get this problem again in my other tank. I think it is best that i pratice zaping these beast.
> 
> Thanks for identifying that for me. Now is my turn to do R&D.
> Revenge is a must. Since it is the primary suspect responsible to at least 3 of my fry and many baby cherry shrimp.


Hi keehoe,

Hydra would usually come as a contaminant of live food, and they have tentacles that paralyse the frys as they swim by, killing them.

I've got them killing my frys too recently, due to my neglect of my Nanacara anomala brood. 

Killing hydra is quite easy, if you have the means. Doing a search would yield medication like flubendazole, which is at the same time an anthelminthic (dewormer). Fortunately, I managed to find another medication of the same class, Fenbendazole, from a local hobbyist, and it work just as well.

A few hours is enough to kill the hydra, as they shrivelled and dropped dead. It has however, no effects on the frys and they grew up just fine.

I know such medications are hard to come by, but I'm not about to distrubute it for fear of abuse by hobbyists here. However, the other medication you can use, would be medication like formaldehyde or formalin. This should be readily available in the LFS. But, do make sure you remove the livestock before treating the tank, as some frys or smaller fishes may not take too wel to formalin, which is a preservative. Formalin is also carcinogenic, so please handle with care.

Cheers,

Kenny

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## zmzfam

You can also try hydrogen peroxide (H2O2). There is also a formulation sold in the lfs to kill snails which claims can also kill hydra. Sold under popular names such as JBL and Sera. Could be formaldehyde or formalin based, as Kenny mentioned.

If you still have frys and cherry shrimps in the tank, remove them to another container before trying the formulation and remember to disinfect your net also.

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## CM Media

To kill hydra is quite simple. Starve them and they'll eventually die off quickly. In the past before I've access to the medication that kill them, I use to remove all the live stock from the infected tank. Leave the tank there for a week or 2 and the hydra will all die off.

When you cut the hydra into 2 parts, both parts will grow into a separate hydra. They behave exactly like the flatworm where they'll be able to survive even cut into 2.

If you need help to get the hydra off quick and not harm the livestock (even the shrimps) contact me and I can pass you some medication to get rid of them.

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## whuntley

There are a lot of aquamyths about Hydra coming in with live foods and even on Artemia cysts. Basically, those are almost always not true.

Hydra almost always come in on plants or wet aquarium equipment (nets?) and ornaments, but may undergrow a fast growth bloom if bbs, Daphnia, Cyclops or other suitable live foods are being fed. With impeccable application of the logical fallacy "_post hoc, ergo propter hoc,"_ (after this, therefore because of this), the aquarist often blames the food and not the real cause.

Since they are trivially easy to eliminate with anti-helmentics, formaldehyde, or even "Amquel," we shouldn't get too exercised about them, IMHO.

That does nothing to relieve the grief of the aquarist encountering their destructive behavior for the first time. Keehoe, you have my sincere sympathy.

Wright

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## Green Baron

I have seen a few Hydras in my shrimp tank before and I thought they were cute  :Very Happy:  , didn't know they kill frys  :Shocked:  Fortunately they have disappeared from the tank. Does fish eats Hydra ?




> Does this hydra thing propagate? Through air? Is my fry in the near by tray endangered? I think it is feeding on my cherry and yamato shrimp baby.....


Off topic - you have baby Yamato shrimps ?  :Shocked:

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## CM Media

> I have seen a few Hydras in my shrimp tank before and I thought they were cute  , didn't know they kill frys  Fortunately they have disappeared from the tank. Does fish eats Hydra ?


Hi Gan,

As far as I know, no fish will ever touch hydra.  :Crying:  

The problem of hydra is mainly due to overfeeding.

So to stay away from problems, do not overfeed you fishes.

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## nonamethefish

After getting some in a large outdoor daphnia tub I took a few of the interesting little things into a jar and tried to feed them...only problem was that the daphnia I provided were too large and they died after a week or so as Au Sl said. 

I can't quite see them killing all but extremely small fry and then the fry would probably die some distance away rather than be subdued by the hydra...

Or maybe those were wimpy hydra...lol

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## erirku

I have these pesky things in my planted tank, do you think if I use the ick medication it would be alright to the plants? I know the med has formaldehyde in it. Thanks  :Cool:  .

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## zmzfam

Certain plants like hornwort will melt if such medications are introduced into the tank. If you want, proceed with caution.

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## TyroneGenade

Hi all 

I'm going to have to be the dissenting voice today (as usual). I don't see the resemblance between KeeHoe and Timebomb's picture. What I do see is a planarian worm on the sponge filter and this is an indicator of a filthy tank in need of a good cleaning.

Check your nitrate levels. I bet it is off the chart. 

regards

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## RonWill

Tyrone,
Kee Hoe's image doesn't show the pest well but it's easy to differentiate. If it's anchored at one end, be it tank wall, plants or hanging from the surface and has "tentacles", it's hydra. If it crawls, it isn't.

I do agree tho, that Kee Hoe has to buck up on fish husbandry or simply feed less.

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## keehoe

Hi thanks for all the sympathy and information. I think i will put some of them into small bottle for experiment and for the mean whle leave them alone. I have bigger problem to handle. I had food poisoning and were lack of energy but that were off topic. I was hoping to find a natural way of removing these. The tank that having hydra is not my over feeding tank. Looks like the fry and snail have done good job in cleaning up my overfeeding tray. 

I realize the first few fish that die from that tank were SAE. Anyone else notice the same thing? This tank only have some cherry shrimp, Yamato shrimps and most importantly my biggest population of thin-leaf java fern.
Does hydra stick to the glass or free swimming around and be everywhere such as near the leaf, stick to body of my shrimp?

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## CM Media

> Does hydra stick to the glass or free swimming around and be everywhere such as near the leaf, stick to body of my shrimp?


Hydra will stick on anything that don't move. Be it on the sand, glass and plants. I've not seen the freshwater hydra on snail shells where the snail tends to move around. But one thing for sure is that hydra will not hold on to shrimps and fishes.

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## hobbit6003

> Originally Posted by keehoe
> 
> Does hydra stick to the glass or free swimming around and be everywhere such as near the leaf, stick to body of my shrimp?
> 
> 
> Hydra will stick on anything that don't move. Be it on the sand, glass and plants. I've not seen the freshwater hydra on snail shells where the snail tends to move around. But one thing for sure is that hydra will not hold on to shrimps and fishes.


keehoe,

Once, the hydra infestation is so bad that they even form floating mats on the water surface, like frogbits!

Cheers,

Kenny

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## TyroneGenade

> I realize the first few fish that die from that tank were SAE.


This would figure. SAEs are vegitatians with long convoluted guts teaming with bacteria. Some of the bacteria are capable of taking Nitrate and converting it to Nitrite! This would poison the fish if Nitrate concentrations in the tank were very high. 

When the water goes bad the casualties begin with the vegetarians such as Bala sharks and SAEs. Funny though that plecs can stick it out...

tt4n

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## keehoe

I did something terriable today. I will all the hydra (i think) in the main tank. Together with the cherry shrimp and yamato shrimp.

I added about 20 drops of 3% Phos. acid into the tank and the little star turns into a white ball. I have try rescue to shrimp out but they couldn't make it after all.

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## hobbit6003

> I did something terriable today. I will all the hydra (i think) in the main tank. Together with the cherry shrimp and yamato shrimp.
> 
> I added about 20 drops of 3% Phos. acid into the tank and the little star turns into a white ball. I have try rescue to shrimp out but they couldn't make it after all.


Hi keehoe,

What were you thinking about when you did that?

Please do not mistake foolhardiness for being a bold experimentation, you're killing your shrimp unnecessarily!

Sheesh....

Kenny

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## timebomb

> I did something terriable today. I will all the hydra (i think) in the main tank. Together with the cherry shrimp and yamato shrimp.


As Kenny said, that's a foolhardy thing to do. But what's just as bad is you're not using your spellchecker. For a moment, I thought you kill your hydra through sheer willpower.

Loh K L

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## timebomb

> Hydra will stick on anything that don't move. Be it on the sand, glass and plants. I've not seen the freshwater hydra on snail shells where the snail tends to move around. But one thing for sure is that hydra will not hold on to shrimps and fishes.


Skeptic that I am, I wondered if what Au said was correct. So I took some pictures this afternoon. Actually, what Kee Hoe has in his tanks is just a minor infestation. In one of my tanks now, it's a disaster zone  :Laughing: . I have Hydra all over the shop  :Laughing: 

Here's the first picture of some elegant Hydra doing a dance just below the water surface:


I also found that there's a green Hydra. They must be vegetarian or something:


As Au said, they grow on plants:


But what Au didn't know is they grow on snails too:



Loh K L

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## RonWill

Guys,
I'll raise hell if hydra takes a foothold in my growout trays or fry tanks. Not funny if those fry mean something to you and they do grow everywhere... even on snails.

Kee Hoe,
Stop fooling around and just get rid of the hydra. It isn't difficult... you just need to know how.

Quit playing with chemicals that you can't control. If you're still having problems with hydra (and the other inhabitants are still alive), meet up with me.

You're raising some lamp eye fry and these pests aren't the best tankmates.

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## keehoe

Guys, i did a total wipeout on the tank with acid. Didn't know the effect is so drastic. Well i suppose i over did that. I thought putting the acid in first will disable the beast so that it don't hold on to the net as i rescue my beloved shrimp. But it is all too late. I guess it have already ate so many of my cherry until their colour turn so red. FYI that is my shrimp tank that is infested with hydra. Next thing we can possibly try is Alpha radiation, if accidentally make a real hydra don't blame me. Any radiation used have possibility of modifying the gene of any species. if not kill on the spot.

Ron, i am counting on the days of my lampeye fry. They normally tail up after two days. So i guess die from hunger. They dont seems to show any interest on BBS.

The tray that had Aplochei. Stigmatopugus already been wipe out my hydra.
Loh, nice picture. So nice that i begin to regret killing them.

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## hobbit6003

> Guys, i did a total wipeout on the tank with acid. Didn't know the effect is so drastic. Well i suppose i over did that. I thought putting the acid in first will disable the beast so that it don't hold on to the net as i rescue my beloved shrimp. But it is all too late. I guess it have already ate so many of my cherry until their colour turn so red. FYI that is my shrimp tank that is infested with hydra. Next thing we can possibly try is Alpha radiation, if accidentally make a real hydra don't blame me. Any radiation used have possibility of modifying the gene of any species. if not kill on the spot.
> 
> Ron, i am counting on the days of my lampeye fry. They normally tail up after two days. So i guess die from hunger. They dont seems to show any interest on BBS.
> 
> The tray that had Aplochei. Stigmatopugus already been wipe out my hydra.
> Loh, nice picture. So nice that i begin to regret killing them.


keehoe,

Why don't you just stick to the tried and tested methods suggested by many here, instead of blind experimentation?

Surely, simple medication would be easier to obtain than whatever radiation you can rig up right? Wouldn't be easier too, to remove the shrimps before dosing phosphoric acid, rather than the other way round?

If everyone can be a scientist, then I guess I needn't have to attend medical school to get my medical degree isn't it?

Trust us, I think Ron, Au, Wright and I would have gotten more than a century's worth of experience put together, surely our words are worth something right?

Sheesh, please do not confuse foolhardiness with enthusiasm...

Btw, I think BBS are too big for your lampeye frys, you'd need microorganisms like infusoria. 

Cheers,

Kenny

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## whuntley

> As far as I know, no fish will ever touch hydra.


Unfortunately true of killies, but some, if not most, Gouramis seem immune to their stings and will eat them eagerly.

For the killifan, I still think a quick treatment with flubendazole o.e is the best way to go. Formaldehyde needs a complicated three-day process, and it will kill most of the microcritters babies may depend on. In that time, the babies will starve. Flubendazole may also kill them, so be sure to add some infusoria back when the medicine is removed or (as with formaldehyde) been absorbed by the organic debris.

Someone asked why no bbs for the first day or two. For me, it is a matter of getting less predation by larger babies. If only part of the hatch is able to swallow bbs, they quickly outgrow and eventually may consume the others. By forcing only microfoods for a day or two, the growth is evened out and the predation seems to be a lot less. Some. like many Lampeyes, may need it for several weeks before they can swallow Artemia.

Few killies hatch with any remaining yolk sack, so I usually use some Java moss with a drop of Liquifry #1 to generate a "bloom" of infusoria the day before hatching. That way, they have something wriggling right in their face from the first hour on.

An inch piece of iceberg lettuce leaf, floated in their shoebox, can keep a bunch of babies fed for a week if you have to be away. Be sure they get some window light (not direct sun) and supply gentle aeration. A few ramshorn snails will keep the floor picked up until you can get home to clean them up. BTW, snail feces come in liquid and solid form. The solid pellets are inert and never foul the water. Liquids released are the finest kind of infusoria food.  :Very Happy: 

Wright

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## stormhawk

With regards to the lampeye fry, the stigmatopygus or properly known as Poropanchax stigmatopygus have really tiny fry just like their cousins Poropanchax normani and luxophthalmus.

Some of the lampeye fry may not be too enthusiastic about foods like BBS. The fry may seem large at times but it is the size of their mouth that is crucial. If they're big but have small mouths then BBS is totally out of the question for them.

Goodness, I've never used any acids in my tanks and have never regretted as much as you would have. Though I would not term it foolhardy, it was a really big mistake to have used phosphoric acid instead of flubendazole or fenbendazole.

That said, if you want to cultivate Hydra, set aside an empty plastic tray, throw in an infested plant or snail, then squirt in some BBS. I think your Hydra will be infesting the entire tray in no time. That is, if you have a fetish for Hydra that is.  :Laughing:  

I've never found any Hydra in my tanks so I'm grateful for that.  :Wink:

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## keehoe

Wow, medical degree. Didn't know that being a scientist have to go through medical school. Regarding the Alpha radiation, well that was just a joke. Anyone with right mind should know not to make something to hurt themself. 

Glad that we have a doctor in our forum. Should have climb up to my computer and request for a jab in the butt when i had diarrhoea two days ago.

For the doctor and everyone else. Thanks for all your help. I have a tray with one hydra near my toilet bowl. Will flush the stupid tray full of mosses and hydra away if i get sick of them. Going to clean up my tank and gravel using clorox and vineger.

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## PohSan

Hi Kee Hoe,

Please do not be offended when everyone is trying to share their experience with all of us. This is very rude of you.  :Crying:  



Regards,
Ong Poh San

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## hobbit6003

> Wow, medical degree. Didn't know that being a scientist have to go through medical school. Regarding the Alpha radiation, well that was just a joke. Anyone with right mind should know not to make something to hurt themself. 
> 
> Glad that we have a doctor in our forum. Should have climb up to my computer and request for a jab in the butt when i had diarrhoea two days ago.


Haha,

Well, I know nuts about Alpha radiation to think that was meant as a joke! But then again, anyone in the right mind would not have used a caustic solution like phosporic acid with cheished inhabitants in the tank!  :Very Happy:  

A doctor ain't no scientist too. But what I'm trying to illustrate is that, it is important that you should know the basics of certain things before you conduct an experimentation of your own. 

You can't simply plunge in armed with just your own conjecture and hope that your enthusiasm carries you through. If you want to conduct experimentation on medication usage on your fishes, you must at least know some basics about fishkeeping, and the disease/problem you're treating, before doing so. That'll at least minimise the endangerment to your fishes' and shrimps' lives.

Please do not think that I'm putting you down. It is just that from what I've seen in you postings, you need to be brought back to earth a little.

Btw, go contact Ronnie, I'm sure he has something for you.  :Wink:  

PS. I'm a practicing dental surgeon right now, and have given back quite a fair bit of medical stuff back to med school!

Cheers,

Kenny

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## keehoe

Don't meant to be offensive but catching unknown number of baby cherry shrimp off a "small tank" of that size really beats me

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## TyroneGenade

> Formaldehyde needs a complicated three-day process, and it will kill most of the microcritters babies may depend on.


If you are not terrified of formaldehyde you should be.

There are 3 organic compounds one should avoid at all cost. These are:
1) benzene (a PROVEN carcinogen)
2) formaldehyde and paraformaldehyde (a PROVEN mutagen)
3) methelene chloride (the leading cause of liver cancer in organic chemists)

tt4n

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## keehoe

Yes, that is the reason that i would only use that as a last resource shall all things fail. I would rather they die then let them create deform baby which i have to kill them myself. Two days ago i did some research on formaldehyde and it was classified as pollutant. 

Further searching on subject of Hydra and ways to remove them reveal someone had successfully remove these beast with drop of PH from 6.8 to 6 after than 6 to 5. Follow by water change and bring the PH back to normal.

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## hobbit6003

Well,

IMO, all the issues of medications like flormaldehyde being a carcingen and mutagen, is a tad bit overhyped.

Sure, that's true. But then again, alot of medication does have its side effects as well. Some of them, if overdosed, would lead to liver toxicity and nephrotoxicity.

The key to using medication, is not to avoid them totally. But given proper adminstration, they can prove life saving and therapeutic.

If fomalin is as lethal as it is made out to be, then I must have been turned into a mutant ninja turtle or something, having been sleeping amongst formalin soaked cadavers for years!  :Very Happy:  

That's why some of us are quite adverse to giving medication to hobbyists, as if they're not careful and not aware of the potential harm it can cause, the abuse can be detrimental to the whole hobby, especially so when a resistant strain of the pathogen is created. 

I'd say that if you can get your hands on the proprietary medication sold in the LFS, and follow the instruction written, you and your fishes should be safe.

Cheers,

Kenny

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## keehoe

Well. Kenny, at least one thing i know for sure is that you mean well. For my fish, shrimp and pocket at least.

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## hobbit6003

> Well. Kenny, at least one thing i know for sure is that you mean well. For my fish, shrimp and pocket at least.


Keehoe,

Phew, and I was wooried that you get offended by what I said!  :Very Happy:  

No worries mate, let's all learn and share together in this hobby!

Cheers,

Kenny

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## keehoe

Hahahaha, Anyway i am asking my sister to bring me some of these medicine. Hope she don't forget about it.

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