# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  What causes hair algae and how to get rid of them?

## Justikanz

Eh... After I switch to T5, I begin to see hair algae... They will appear and then disappear mysteriously after a couple of days...

In my 4footer (48" x 24" x 24"), I have some yamatop shrimps and 2 Florida Flag Fish. It is a CO2 enriched tank but my dosing (Seachem nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, flourish, flourish trace and iron) had been irregular. The algae started appearing after I switched from 220W PL to 216W T5HO. Recently, I reduced the lighting to 108W, alternating between 10,000K and 6700K daily. The hair algae will still appear and for these 2 days, the strands look longer... I had stopped the nitrate dosage as I noticed some fish had died inside the tank and my fish were feeding on them as I only find bones at the end of the day...

In my 2footer (24" x 16" x 18"), I will dose Seachem excel, phosphorus and sometimes flourish and flourish trace... Lighting is 48W T5HO. Hair lalgae is appearing since I started planting.

Both tanks are heavily planted.

So, I want to know, what causes hair algae? What encourages their growth? Is hair algae growth normal and expected in a planted tank? How to stop their growth or reduce their growth (if their growth is expected)?...

Thanks!

----------


## StanChung

if somebody answers true he/she has my eternal thanks... :Kiss:  

now i just throw clumps of moss[the used to be expensive kind!] whenever it appears. lower light seems to slow it down.

----------


## PeterGwee

Poor plant growth is the main issue. You fertilization is inconsistent and that probably slow or stunt your plants pretty good thus allowing the algae to get a foothold of the tank. Once induced, they are pretty tough to get rid of and you need to attack them consistently and correct the conditions of the tank and allow the plants to grow. Unless you do that (dose well..not stopping the dosing) and pick on them very well, you are not going to get rid of it. Lowering of the light intensity will help as it slows both the plants and algae down.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

----------


## Justikanz

Hmm... The thing is, my plants' growth is pretty good leh... Slow, but good... Ok... Seems like I have to be more consistent in the dosing... I am a little scared that if I dose, I will induce more growth!...  :Opps:

----------


## AquaObsession

I have hard time fighting hair algae too....Now it starts to appear on my Java moss in my 1.5 Feet tank.. I tried to manually take them out... hard hard time, as you would imagine..

I think it appears when u first planted the moss, then because it needs some acclimatization period before growth, it gives time for the hair algae to settle in....

I think some are starting to appear on my Xmas moss.. Growth is decent though, but just tie to wood since last week...I think i will just remove the small portion manually by tearing the infected parts.

I've heard florida fish eat it.. Is that true..? where to get in Singapore? what's the compatility of that fish with neons, and shrimps?

Thanks

----------


## solonavi

For some strange reason, I'm suspecting the lights spectrum. Do u know what is the kelvin of your PL?

JC

----------


## Justikanz

JC, you referring to my PL? It was either 6700 or 10,000... From Maqnum... Never asked then...  :Opps: 

AquaObsession, the FFF is not that common but can still be seen... The last time I saw it, C328 has a tankful... My FFF thinks it is a cory... until I find a mate for it...  :Opps: 

They take all food... Not sure if they will actually find other food more appetizing than hair algae...

----------


## |squee|

Maqnum is 8000K if I'm not wrong.

----------


## Justikanz

Likely you are right...  :Smile: 

I only remember it being more blue than the FLs I was using previously... And the replacement tube I bought but never used (and now on sale  :Grin:  )was 6700K...

----------


## solonavi

Reason for asking is because algae is believed to grow when the bulb is on certain spectrum. There's the reason why many change their light bulbs regularly to prevent specturm shift overtime.

I'm still trying to find out what is the specturm that cost algae growth. Anyone know?

JC

----------


## PeterGwee

> Reason for asking is because algae is believed to grow when the bulb is on certain spectrum. There's the reason why many change their light bulbs regularly to prevent specturm shift overtime.
> 
> I'm still trying to find out what is the specturm that cost algae growth. Anyone know?
> 
> JC


A myth...plants are capable of adapting to the changing light spectrum. Focus on the plants...thats what you ultimately want to grow.

What he needs is actually to remove as much of the algae as possible and correct conditions and make them optimal for growing plants. If you look at how bad the infestation of the algae was on his blyxa japonica, you know he didn't do a good job.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

----------


## solonavi

I tend to agree the plants do adapt to changing spectrum. But isn't it a specific range only like 5500K - 8000K? Thus if a light bulb is old and spectrum shift is high, the dgree kelvin may have went out of this range thus inducing algae growth?

Since Light from the blue end of the spectrum encourages short bushy growth, while light from the red end encourages long lanky growth and light from the green portion of the spectrum are least used. It make logical sense that certain spectrum will have make algae grow better?

JC

----------


## Justikanz

Peter, the japonica is cleared of hair now... they got hair when floating in another tank for weeks... Now the new hair is very sparse, a couple of strands only, but very long strands... Anyway, time to remove the hair algae and stick to regular dosing...  :Razz:

----------


## sage08

i've read somewhere tht algae thrive on light and ammonia.. 

how abt tackling ammonia by increasing the population of beneficial bacteria or their effeciency like introducing air bubble at night..

----------


## StanChung

hi peter,
adaptable, meaning the research those fellas come up at dennerle is nought?

anyway focussing on plant growth is top priority.

the other thing is that i notice wood i use is usually the fist to get the BBA.

Hair algae only happen on my moss... maybe because my hg is well covered by the tall aponogetons. this hair algae is not easily removed. you pull the fronds apart and there it is. like when you break a piece of lotus root...
this fella sometimes left unchecked becomes a lot and whole clumps are easier thrown away.

i notice this fine green pelt on the large echinodorus leaves...what is this type of algae?

----------


## PeterGwee

> hi peter,
> adaptable, meaning the research those fellas come up at dennerle is nought?


Dennerle believes that NO3/PO4 causes algae and that break in photoperiods is good for attacking algae issues....how's that for research?




> the other thing is that i notice wood i use is usually the fist to get the BBA.
> 
> Hair algae only happen on my moss... maybe because my hg is well covered by the tall aponogetons. this hair algae is not easily removed. you pull the fronds apart and there it is. like when you break a piece of lotus root...
> this fella sometimes left unchecked becomes a lot and whole clumps are easier thrown away.
> 
> i notice this fine green pelt on the large echinodorus leaves...what is this type of algae?


The presence and growth of algae tells you something is off. Algae makes great bio-indicators and much better than test kits. If your CO2, nutrients and light are good, your plants should grow well. All you need to do is to remove the current infestations and they should not come back.

For the BBA, is the rate of CO2 addition stable? Do you have good circulation patterns? Consider try the CO2 misting method as it helps to determine where the CO2 is getting and not getting to since its visual observation of bubble movement.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

----------


## StanChung

hmmm,

no wonder the whole website became german again.  :Rolling Eyes: 

i think looking my setup, the circulation is poor because there's a lot of hardscape. too much mulm. and hi bioload.
nothing a nice WC can't fix.

i'm already using a TB diy venturi diffuser. thing likes to clog with plants. esp since the input in horizontal. the bubbles are really fine and dissolve before it gets to the other side.

ideally right now i want to run an airstone during photoperiod off hours...to improve DO levels.

----------


## PeterGwee

> i think looking my setup, the circulation is poor because there's a lot of hardscape. too much mulm. and hi bioload.
> nothing a nice WC can't fix.
> 
> i'm already using a TB diy venturi diffuser. thing likes to clog with plants. esp since the input in horizontal. the bubbles are really fine and dissolve before it gets to the other side.
> 
> ideally right now i want to run an airstone during photoperiod off hours...to improve DO levels.


Think long term stability....do you want to keep facing the same issue throughout the week? Add more current to the tank, improve the circulation pattern by adding small powerheads.

Use a powerhead or two and feed the CO2 directly into the suction. Direct the current such that the mist gets to all parts of the tank....a spraybar attachment might help. The point of the mist method is to get the bubbles to come into contact with the plant stomata rather than dissolving it.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

----------


## FLIM1

[QUOTE=PeterGwee]
For the BBA, is the rate of CO2 addition stable? Do you have good circulation patterns? Consider try the CO2 misting method as it helps to determine where the CO2 is getting and not getting to since its visual observation of bubble movement.[QUOTE]

Hi Peter,
In the case of CO2 is 30ppm or more based on PH and KH measurement and with good water current and BBA is still propagating, what is/are the remaining issue(s) here ? Here the assumption is that all No3,Po4 and trace are dosed with sufficient amount in low light with photoperiod about 10hrs and good filterization. 

cheers..lim

----------


## StanChung

no big issue... but it's just there...the BBA. takes like a month to develop. scrape and appear another month later.

----------


## FLIM1

> no big issue... but it's just there...the BBA. takes like a month to develop. scrape and appear another month later.


That's precisely what I am doing now...WC and vacuuming from weekly basis now to daily routine...At times, I have the thought of revamping the whole tank but was put to stop as most of the plants are planted since day one and the hassle of finding another tank for my aro.

But that's for short term...how about long term ? There might be solutions but till now still looking for one  :Sad:

----------


## |squee|

The issue is probably fluctuating CO2 levels, meaning the CO2 is not dissolved on a constant rate/water circulation is not good. You also have to work on removing the existing BBA... otherwise they'll just stay and grow(more slowly) despite corrected conditions.

----------


## kt89

i seems to be thoughts everywhere but no true conclusion though...

anyway, just to share my condition now;

running two MH lights on my 520 ltr tank where i use to be algae free for the first six months until recently started to find hair algae on my xmas moss... :Sad:  my plants is growing fine and healthy.

still trying to find to ultimate solution to it and of course the source of the problem...i'm now doing weekly half tank water change to see if it helps (very tiring process)...I'm consider lucky that the "govt tap" is just conveniently outside my door step, therefore no need to worry about PUB bills, just need to do it late night (dun be surprise to see somebody pulling hose in the middle of the night).

We'll keep the thread on the water changing outcome after 1 month (4 change of water)

Hope it work....

----------


## Sweet Angel

My tank is 19 galon, light 72 W, DIY CO2.
First I used Tetra Florapride as liquid fert, seems ok, only when changing the old CO2 formula with the new one, sometimes BBA appear, but then they'll die as the new CO2 continue to bubble.
Then later I change Tetra Florapride with a cheaper liquid fert (probably house-made by the seller), I notice a few strand of hair algae appeared on my moss & riccia, then they grew uncontrollable until the green fur-like algae cover all moss, riccia, & HC  :Mad:  

If I'm not wrong, from the reading of some threads, people said the balance of EI can solve this hair algae problem.
I want to start dosing EI, currently I already have KNO3 & KH2PO4 in my hands.
But I can't find K2SO4.
Is it ok if only dose KNO3 & KH2PO4...?
I'm afraid my tank parameter not balance & causing more algae problem... :Huh?:

----------


## PeterGwee

Angel, unless the new liquid fertilizer contains NH3/NH4 or Urea then its unlikely to be the issue. Supplying good nutrients (easy with EI) along with high stable CO2 (DIY is the main issue here...why not get gas tank?) will get you better results in the long run. 

KNO3 + KH2PO4 + a general trace mix product would do. The nutrients are ruled out if you dose enough via EI. All you need to focus is CO2 which is also your biggest weak point. You might want to lower the light to 36w to slow things down.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

----------


## Sweet Angel

I think gas tank is too much for my 60cm tank...  :Huh?:  
I'm considering to convert to low maintenance non CO2 tank... 
Does Tetra Florapride act like general trace mix product...? Or should I find another product?
Yeah I should lower the light coz the trimming jobs so tiring.  :Knockout:

----------


## |squee|

Why would it be? So many of us have a gas tank for 60cm tanks, like me  :Razz: 

Non-CO2 is wonderful, but growth will be almost static. You'll have to enjoy looking at your tank very much to appreciate non-CO2.

----------


## Sweet Angel

> Non-CO2 is wonderful, but growth will be almost static. You'll have to enjoy looking at your tank very much to appreciate non-CO2.



Hmm... Maybe I like it the "almost static" way, I have non CO2 nano tank in my office, almost no trimming, what a relieve...!!  :Razz:  

Does non CO2 tank will not attack by this hair algae...?

----------


## |squee|

There will still be a possiblity, but if you set it up right and don't tamper with it, hair algae shouldn't hit.

----------


## StanChung

is there a way to treat moss with hair algae? like using diluted bleach? out of main tank of course...

----------


## PeterGwee

> is there a way to treat moss with hair algae? like using diluted bleach? out of main tank of course...


A total blackout in a small tank might help as does growing them emergent temporarily.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

----------


## StanChung

emergent...that's a great idea...to save some precious moss and keep stock...out of aquarium...not a cure for collectoritis but a way to beat back hair algae while figuring out what's wrong.

----------


## Sweet Angel

Well guys... how's ur effort in fighting hair algae...
Any improvement...? Any new idea / ways to fight them more efficiently?
Last time I gave up throwing my big clumps of moss in trash can  :Mad:  
They're extremely covered by hair algae. I've even tried to add more CO2 by adding more DIY CO2 bottles (I usually use 1 bottle, now I have 3 bottles with 3 different airstones bubbling in 3 different spots).
Other algaes like BBA seems not a problem for me, they'll easily die off after we add CO2, but this hair algae...  :Mad:  
Really pain in the ***...

Do post your latest condition okay...
Thanks.

----------


## Sweet Angel

Hm... no one has any improved experience yet?
Seems moss is the most favorite spot for hair algae... am I right?

----------


## StanChung

Yup, you are right :Exasperated:  
So far my experience is you can't have large Altums[predators] in tank and expect the critters to take out the hair algae. duh.

Regards

Stan

----------


## freezze

how do u guys remove the hair algae manually? for me i am use a toothbrush to brush against the affected moss to remove the hair algae.. 

any better ways to remove them?

----------


## mecedesfish

> Yup, you are right 
> So far my experience is you can't have large Altums[predators] in tank and expect the critters to take out the hair algae. duh.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Stan


Ya....I had 1 abt 4inch long autum and 4 nos long noise, no wonder i had hair grass on dennerle sand.

What do you think if i would to add PH down from 6.5 to 5.5 and a ph of 2 or using 2 cylinder CO2 instead of 1 nos (had a extra CO2),change H20 now and another 50% 3 day later.

thanks

----------


## Sweet Angel

> how do u guys remove the hair algae manually? for me i am use a toothbrush to brush against the affected moss to remove the hair algae.. 
> 
> any better ways to remove them?


Well I just remove it with tweezer, or simply with finger...

----------


## aquarius

Frankly toothbrush is the best method to remove hair algae. Fast and efficient

----------


## Justikanz

That is what I am planning to do this weekend... The hair algae is really difficult to remove just by plucking...  :Opps: 

But will increasing the CO2 stop their return?  :Huh?:

----------


## theodore

> So, I want to know, what causes hair algae?


Water+air-borne spores? 




> What encourages their growth?


Good supply of nutrients?




> Is hair algae growth normal and expected in a planted tank? How to stop their growth or reduce their growth (if their growth is expected)?...


I always get varying amounts of it in my high-light tanks.

Shorter furrier hair algae (pale green) can always be found on parts of my driftwoods nearest to the lightsource in my highlight tanks. I leave them alone at times cos they can be quite pretty when pearling.  :Grin:  

Staghorn (branchy hair algae) tend to find its way into my moss, esp the thicker clumps (e.g. 2-3mths of growth for xmas moss) in areas with poor circulation. Ugly. Have to use tweezers for this one.

I even had the sparse and long (10-20cm) hair algae on my riccia lawn when I started my first tank a few years ago. That was when I had inconsistent CO2 using a DIY bottle of yeast + sugar. Trimmed my plants, got myself a CO2 tank and they never came back.

Just in case any1 wanna know how to get BGA, just get yourself a baby and ignore your tank for 3mths  :Grin:

----------


## Sweet Angel

> Just in case any1 wanna know how to get BGA, just get yourself a baby and ignore your tank for 3mths



Such an "expensive" way to get BGA...  :Grin:  

So getting CO2 tank can solve this hair algae problem... Do other guys don't use CO2 tank? Justikanz..? Standoyo...?

I don't use toothbrush to manually remove hair algae because I don't want my plants uprooted, hair algae so hard to remove that if you pluck them, you can also pluck your plants...

----------


## Justikanz

My tanks with hair algae are either non-CO2 or I had stopped the CO2 supply temporarily...  :Opps:  Getting a CO2 to see if things can improve...

----------


## celticfish

> Last time I gave up throwing my big clumps of moss in trash can  
> They're extremely covered by hair algae.


while i was moving my tanks and all recently.
i had a big bunch of java moss and taiwan moss infested with hairalgae.
but as i didn't have the heart to throw it away i just bagged them.
(just put them in a clear plastic bag 3/4 filled and tie qith a rubber band)

apparently the mosses didn't suffer much and the hair algae went bye bye...
i have no idea why.
the crypts i did the same to melted a little then thrived.
do not do this for ferns, my narrow leave got busted.

also, if you are a little more impatient you can bag them and shake the living daylights out of the algae! 
some will relish the physical sensation, as i have, of getting back at the algae this way.  :Evil:  
btw the algae i had were brown and hair-like fuzz around the whole moss clump.

----------


## genes

I too experience those dark coloured hair algae all over my Xmas moss, especially on the matured thick clumps as well as on the java fern roots. Been removing them manually for weeks but they just kept coming back...now i just try to remove as much infected clumps of moss as possible and also up co2 to 5bps. Dosing Ferka ferts now instead of the troublesome Lushgro ferts.

Didn't have hair algae problem before. Not sure why the sudden bloom of hair algae in the tank. Once had BGA bloom, now no trace of them for months, but hair algae took its place...These algae are temperature/seasonal dependent perhaps?  :Opps:

----------


## avant

> while i was moving my tanks and all recently.
> i had a big bunch of java moss and taiwan moss infested with hairalgae.
> but as i didn't have the heart to throw it away i just bagged them.
> (just put them in a clear plastic bag 3/4 filled and tie qith a rubber band)


Where did you keep the bag? In some dark spot of the house? How long did it take for the hair algae to die?

----------


## celticfish

i place them beside the window and just leave them there.
a couple of weeks. 
i suppose you can speed the process by placing them in complete darkness for three days before you put them by the window.

or shake the living daylights out of them...
remember to drain and replace with fresh water and repeat.

practically zero maintenance,
i'm "growing" a bag of java and taiwan moss each.  :Grin:  




> Where did you keep the bag? In some dark spot of the house? How long did it take for the hair algae to die?

----------


## avant

> i place them beside the window and just leave them there.
> a couple of weeks. 
> i suppose you can speed the process by placing them in complete darkness for three days before you put them by the window.
> 
> or shake the living daylights out of them...
> remember to drain and replace with fresh water and repeat.
> 
> practically zero maintenance,
> i'm "growing" a bag of java and taiwan moss each.


ah.. that's interesting. I'll try it out on my moss tomorrow  :Smile:

----------


## StanChung

> Such an "expensive" way to get BGA...  
> 
> So getting CO2 tank can solve this hair algae problem... Do other guys don't use CO2 tank? Justikanz..? Standoyo...?


hi,

I'm using pressurised co2 and the hair algae comes periodically when i fail to notice co2 tank is empty.

Hair algae is a nuisance but controllable once the plants are growing well. Just keep trimming and throwing the infected leaves.

Now i'm just happy i've sorted out the traces elements which lack of caused all sorts of problems in the past.

Regards

Stan

----------


## celticfish

> ah.. that's interesting. I'll try it out on my moss tomorrow


note: 
the usual things for good moss growth still apply (i.e. cooler water better).
so no direct sunlight.
mine are at the window in my bedroom which gets airconditioning every evening. 

might i also suggest that you put a little moss in it. 
i was trying to save my mosses so i filled the bag to just below the waterline.
i know they are growing well because the growth has pushed them above the waterline.
currently, i turn them over once a week but i should split them into more bags...  :Opps:

----------


## Sweet Angel

Ok guys, thanks for sharing  :Well done:  

Unfortunately getting CO2 tank is quite expensive, & I've thrown that big moss clump in trash...  :Sad:

----------


## stmoo

My 2ft tank in office also have hair algae, at first there are a few of them and i never do water change or remove it and now there are alot of them, all over my plant n glass, 

Try to put SAE but some how , it never do their work by eating them. so i brought my 2 Big Yamato from my 4ft tank, hunger them for a day and put them in today, can see them eating the hair algae. 

hope they do their work..  :Grin:  
if proven good, will put in more yamato.

----------


## celticfish

stmoo,
i think you have BBA and not hair/thread algae.

----------


## stmoo

> stmoo,
> i think you have BBA and not hair/thread algae.



actually i got both .. BBA and Hair algae..  :Opps: 

check this link, about algae
http://www.zen77408.zen.co.uk/plantedtank/algae.htm

----------


## grey_fox

BBA (correct me if I am wrong) is normally caused by low CO2 PPM yah.

----------


## |squee|

Not low... (otherwise non-CO2 tanks will have BBA all over) but stable CO2 levels  :Smile:

----------


## celticfish

opps... didn't see your first picture clearly!  :Opps:  




> actually i got both .. BBA and Hair algae.. 
> 
> check this link, about algae
> http://www.zen77408.zen.co.uk/plantedtank/algae.htm

----------


## primavera

I have hair algae on my Christmas and Singapore moss too. They only seem to infect my mosses, rather like what standoyo experienced. They grow back slowly after I pluck/toothbrush them away. I think my DIY co2 is the root of the problem, can't afford/justify pressurised for my 2 nanos (10 and 7.5gal). I dose EI.

----------


## taz_boy

yup. diy co2 is always troublesome...instable level of co2 invites algae problems...try save up and invest in a presurried co2 system..it will be worth it. if not, refer to those threads where some fellow hobbyist actually managed without co2.

----------


## StanChung

hi,

Got the hair algae under control got beard for awhile and now bba! Sigh! Going for LESS flow! CO2 was upped when beard algae showed but it didn't hold back the BBA. Rescaped and switched to ADA prep/dosing since it compliments the Aquasoil.
See how it goes.


On another note. Most of the taiwan moss i have near the light have also started to spore and turned light green[NO3 deficient i think as there are hints of BGA].

R

Stan

----------

