# Other Aquarium Forums > Marine Tanks >  My new tank

## setiardi

Hi guyz, finally my 2x2(h)x1.5ft (160L) tank system up and running. Tank still bare. Use trickle filter system with sump. All DIY. Intend to setup reef tank. using 2 700l/h pump for internal circulation. Just measure tank sg at 1.022 and stable. Bought the tropic marine salt at $93 for 150 gal from Marine Life. Izzit priced ok? Now need advise what to do next. Should I add sand and a few live rock now? My water have been cycling for 2 days.Can I start seeding those liquid bacteria for my trickle/sump filter? Currently using JBJ 2x PL (65k and actinic). Should I add one more set or go all the way for MH eg. giessman? For this setup need skimmer? Intend to DIY skimmer too. Been keeping FW setups for years, including discus so know the importance of patience. Anyway, why not many ppl post here, seems like not many SW aquaristlah. Thanks in advance!

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## Simon

any pic?

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## DragonGoby

Hi,

Welcome to the marine side! (or the Dark Dide, as Kel would put it, hehe)

First off, what kind of system are you planning to use? Plenum, DSB or Berlin, or a combi of all these? IMHO, sand would be next. Wash the sand thoroughly to get rid of silt and dirt, add in and perhaps a capful or two of bacteria to kick-start the live sand bed. Wait out a few days, then gradually add live rock. However, I think it's better to use a protein skimmer before you add the live rock. Some people cure theirs, but if you take the trouble (and if you drive) to be careful with the LR, you can place them directly in the tank with no problems. Oh yes - what water did you use to fill your tank up with? If you didn't use distilled or RO water, it's a good idea to use a phosphate sponge before you do anything else. I had a diatom outbreak - learnt it the hard way. 

Regards,
Hong Yee

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## Marine

Can someone explain what is DSB and berlin method ? I wonder what kind of filtration system my tank is adopting. Basically, I have a Eheim external cannister filtration system and many live rock in the 2ft tank. So what kind is that ?

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## setiardi

Alamak Simon, my tank still botak, also want to see pics. Ok lah. :Smile:   

The whole tank

 

DIY Trickle/Sump Filter




Overflow Box



Hydrometer dead on 1.022

 

View from top

Anyway how, ok or not? I think I will need the phospate sponge.Izzit commonly found at marine lfs? Me intend to use berlin system. Will add sand after getting the phosphate sponge.In the mean time will DIY skimmer b4 adding live rock.Will update after adding live rock. Anyway, the corals and fishes, waaaah, looks greatat the lfs.But must control lah, cannot jump queue.

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## kelstorm

Anyway how, ok or not? I think I will need the phospate sponge.Izzit commonly found at marine lfs? Me intend to use berlin system. Will add sand after getting the phosphate sponge.In the mean time will DIY skimmer b4 adding live rock.Will update after adding live rock. Anyway, the corals and fishes, waaaah, looks greatat the lfs.But must control lah, cannot jump queue.
*Setiardi, Firstly, welcome to the dark side.. hehehe.. Berlin system is basically using only mainly Live rocks and DSB to maintain the filtration. IMO, try to go for a combination of filtration methods. e.g., in my case, me using DSB, Live rocks, Protein skimmer and internal filter and sump for my 4ft tank. Yes, a bit kaisu u may say.. but me taking not chances..pls understand that nitrogen cycle in marine is very impt and unless u introduce live stock (fish or rocks), u will not get the maturing of filters... and i prefer to use the natural method rather than using chemicals such as bottle bacteria.. how to speed up your cycling process, get some used filter wool from SW aquarist.. me can help in this.. if u want.. PM me..we arrange from there.*

Hi guyz, finally my 2x2(h)x1.5ft (160L) tank system up and running. Tank still bare. Use trickle filter system with sump. All DIY. Intend to setup reef tank. using 2 700l/h pump for internal circulation. Just measure tank sg at 1.022 and stable. 
* 1.022 is fine...*

Bought the tropic marine salt at $93 for 150 gal from Marine Life. Izzit priced ok? 
*well, i find that it is a bit ex.. coz me using coralife synthetic salt.. cost abt $55-60 for 20kg of salt
at petmart. anyway, for maturing my tank, i would use the lower quality salt like red sea to get my filter up and going and then change the entire water once the filter is up and ready and use the coralife. i know some aquarist here used more expensive quality.. but at the end of the day, personal preference.*

Now need advise what to do next. Should I add sand and a few live rock now? My water have been cycling for 2 days.
*try reading the article below. This is very impt coz the actual cycle last up to 28 days. During this period of cycling, anything goes it is bound to meet its maker and the irony thing is that, your filter is not started till u add in live stock. what i suggest is that u get a bottle of liquified invertebrate food and empty the contents inside and let the tank cycle. after which, add a couple of fishes, e.g. damsels to test out the tank. after a week, then slowly add a couple of live rocks.*
setting up marine tank

* do get some books to learn more abt the hobby first.. i always advocate this.. coz it is more coz effective that way.. u wun learn it the hard way like i do..*
marine books 

Can I start seeding those liquid bacteria for my trickle/sump filter? Currently using JBJ 2x PL (65k and actinic). Should I add one more set or go all the way for MH eg. giessman? For this setup need skimmer? Intend to DIY skimmer too. Been keeping FW setups for years, including discus so know the importance of patience. Anyway, why not many ppl post here, seems like not many SW aquaristlah. Thanks in advance!
*I'm not too sure that PL is able to penetrate to that depth.. depending on the type of corals that u are keeping.. i would recommend that u go for MH if u are keeping hard corals.. if not, personally, me using 4 x FL for my soft corals.. and as such, PL should be  sufficient for soft corals.. i say should be  is becoz me never used PL for marine b4 other than for planted.* 

can someone explain what is DSB and berlin method ? I wonder what kind of filtration system my tank is adopting. Basically, I have a Eheim external cannister filtration system and many live rock in the 2ft tank. So what kind is that ?
[b]Ivan, DSB is Deep Sand Bed.. a

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## Marine

Yup. I got a protein skimmer. So I believe my method is a mix method of berlin.... One more question. What will happen if I got too many live rock in the tank ?

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## kelstorm

what problem do u envision that u will encounter?? 
i can only think of one. no space for fishes to swim.. dun forget.. corals do come with liverocks..[: :Smile: ] 

setairdi, how come your hydrometer is stuck to the glass??

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## setiardi

My hydrometer got suction cap, so temporary put there to monitor SG.Still newlah, want to see if got changes when I start adding livestock/stuff and also see if it will drift. Anyway anyone can enligthen if DIY skimmer works as well as the retail stuff. Qns 2. What flowrate is consider efficient for the filter coz my tank vol is abt 150L.Thanks

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## kelstorm

My hydrometer got suction cap, so temporary put there to monitor SG.
*once the salt have been dissolved, let it run for another hour or so and take the measurement...and it should have stablised.. SG dun fluctuate*

Anyway anyone can enligthen if DIY skimmer works as well as the retail stuff. 
*a DIY skimmer can be just as effective...provided that it is done correctly..*

What flowrate is consider efficient for the filter coz my tank vol is abt 150L.Thanks
*u already have a DIY sump right?? depending on the no. of times u want to filter your tank... u can consider getting either a 1046/1048*

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## DragonGoby

About your lights - yes, 2 x PL doesn't seem sufficient, unless you wantto restrict your coral selection to low-light softies or sun coral (which can be a pain to feed, in my opinion). You can use 4 x PL if possible, and this can allow you to keep most softies and some hard corals. For the latter though, you should place them higher up in the water column nearer to the light.

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## setiardi

U guyz got any online store to recommend, local or overseas.Might need to buy stuff online. About tank now add gravel and 2 damsel to start my filter bioload.Will add liverock once water column is stable.

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## lighter

Hi setiardi,

Can i know did you DIY your overflow box or did you purchase it?

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## setiardi

Me DIY overflow box.Called Soon Heng 88, and they say $150 bucks for a ready-made one, mine cost less than $30. The hardest part for me to jump to SW is to DIY the overflow box! No kidding. Just imagine the What Ifs. What if my outer box not big enough, what if my U pipe not big enuff, what ifs.....Actually I found most website does not say what dimension to make for a particular tank size. Mine I use those rectangular betta containers and a discarded juwel internal filter box! If u know those arcylic shop, then much better.Heard can do 4u if supply dimension.I think somewhere in Eunos.Good Luck

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## kelstorm

U guyz got any online store to recommend, local or overseas.Might need to buy stuff online. 
*what kind of stuff u talking abt?? most of the equipment can be purchase locally leh.. me have never bought anything online*
About tank now add gravel and 2 damsel to start my filter bioload.Will add liverock once water column is stable.
*get the basic test kits like ammonia, nitrate and nitrite.. u need to monitor the water parameters..*[ :Grin: ]

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## setiardi

Abt those sites just want to look ard. Anyway recommend me a MH 150w~175w any type. Need to know the best deals.Possibly LFS, easier to travel. Saw the one at Marine Life entrance tank. Very pro look.Must be very ex.

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## kelstorm

Abt those sites just want to look ard. 
[b]try this sites
Aquriacentral.com
Saltwaterfish.com

Anyway recommend me a MH 150w~175w any type. Need to know the best deals.
*go for 150W.. 175W is too blue.. btw, make sure that the blubs are no more than 10,000K.. some MH blubs are like 20,000K.. which is too blue..* 

try petmart.. there is taiwanese-made MH.. price wise, i dun know

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## setiardi

Kelstorm, thanks for the sites, anyway been there.Very good indeed,recommend for guyz who wants to setup marine.Good info. Abt bulb, I do need 10k coz now hav 2x36w PL 65k + actinic.After a lot of thinking, I will go DIY on skimmer.Thought of getting red sea prizm, but will diy a hang-on type myself.Got 2 plans from 2 site but will adjust to what I feel a better design. Will tinker ard and post pics &amp;amp; info once working.Hope it works!!!!

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## kelstorm

After a lot of thinking, I will go DIY on skimmer.Thought of getting red sea prizm, but will diy a hang-on type myself.Got 2 plans from 2 site but will adjust to what I feel a better design. Will tinker ard and post pics &amp;amp;amp;amp; info once working.Hope it works!!!!
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u are welcome.. and when u come out with new designs on DIY skimmer.. do share with us.. i'm sure some of us are interested.. me for one, is interested!!!!!![ :Grin: ].. if u want a hang on skimmer.. red sea prizm is the cheapest so far.. and alternative is berlin system..

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## setiardi

Guyz, my tank now got problem.After slowly build up the bio-load, now 5kg of live rock and 4 damsel, all is well until I add the oceanfree bacteria 8000. I add abt 200l equivalent dose while my tank hold abt 160L. In a matter of 30 minutes my fish are dead.Now I wonder abt my live rock.I'm not capable of doing emergncy wc yet coz my storage tank not ready.This is a matter where I shld follow the saying &amp;quot;don't fix wats not broken&amp;quot;. Did 10% wc in morning and did chk in afternoon.Ammonia ard 0.5mg/l slowly creeping up from days b4.Thats why I use the liquid, to bring down ammonia. Wat shld I do now to save my live rock.Another thing to mention,my puny sanders skimmer, spew foam like volcano after add the solution! b4 got abit foam only and now still spewing.

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## setiardi

To add on, Now I recall weeks b4, my discus got sick when I introduce the Cycle product to start the bacteria in a new sponge foam filter. Took me a few weeks, lots of water change and patience with 1 casualty to get them healthy. I remember not adding that liquid then they ok.SO WATS THE PROBLEM MAN!

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## kelstorm

Guyz, my tank now got problem.After slowly build up the bio-load, now 5kg of live rock and 4 damsel, all is well until I add the oceanfree bacteria 8000. I add abt 200l equivalent dose while my tank hold abt 160L. In a matter of 30 minutes my fish are dead.
*did not want to spoil your feelings.. that is the main reasons why i dun trust those products.. i always believe in letting nature run its course.. i never believe in bacteria that can store into bottles..anyway..the only way to save those rocks is to leave them in a matured tank if available.. if not, it is bye bye for them... right now, if possible, let the tank mature.. which i figure, u did not follow and were anxious to stock it..i recalled mentioning it earlier... never mind.. let this be a lesson...right now, the only thing to do is to let the filtration mature..there is practically nothing that can be done..your system had 'collapse'.. u have to restart again.. i'm sorry..[] as for your skimmer, it is trying to remove the excess wastes.. this shows that it is working just fine..*

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## kelstorm

use the existing filter media.. and empty the contents of the oceanfree [ :Knockout: ] stuff into the tank.. then let it cycle..till the water is clean and clear.. then take the measure.. if properly cycled, ammonia and nitrite should read zero, only then, i would advice stocking up slowly.. mind u.. the process can take up to 28 days.. dun make the same mistakes again..[: :Smile: ] alternatively, get some filterwool from those aquarists with matured tanks.. me willing to spare u some if u are interested.. PM me...[: :Smile: ]

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## setiardi

Yup agreed, had this feeling once see my fishes got stress out.Lesson learnt. Anyway one of my damsel still hanging on, anyway give him only 10% chance.

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## Wind

How much does a damsel cost? Cos $2 at LFS in Sembawang.

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## DragonGoby

Hi Kel,

I'm pretty sure that bacteria can be bottled, it's probably in the dormant state, but then . we still can't be to sure about their claims of the bacteria being alive.

Probably what happened to the tank was that the bacteria multiplied too quickly, using p oxygen in the process and suffocating your fish - I believe it's a process related to eutrophication. Just don't add too much at the beginning and you'll do fine. 

Good luck with your tank!

Regards,
Hong Yee

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## Marine

Hi Kel,

As for my case, my tank is now with corals &amp;amp; livestock but the ammonia &amp;amp; nitrite are still present and reads 0.5 ppm for ammonia and 0.2 ppm for nitrite. This readings have been the same for a long time (going to a mth). How to bring them low ?

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## setiardi

DragonGoby, me agree 100%. Kelstorm, not to teach the master but I feel all is not lost yet.I did not bottoms up the liquid bacteria coz in doing so my liverock will definitely go. Wat I did is to circulate the tank and aerate it.Add my spare Otto internal filter and eheim 2227. 2 hours later skimmer back to normal (very little foam)Did 25% wc using DI unit yesterday and add (again) 2 damsel as a test.Both are alive, kicking and eating too. I rig the sanders using a 1.5l bottle with a 1/2&amp;quot; PVC pipe as the collection cup. Will cycle tank for 14 days and check water parameter again. Target 0 ppm NH3. Equipment I can buy, time cannot. Anyway getting a chiller today. Cheers.

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## kelstorm

How much does a damsel cost? Cos $2 at LFS in Sembawang.
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Abt $1 at harlus..[: :Smile: ]

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## kelstorm

I'm pretty sure that bacteria can be bottled, it's probably in the dormant state, but then . we still can't be to sure about their claims of the bacteria being alive. 
*well, IMO, to bottle bacteria, yes.. it can be done.. but bacteria being alive?? i really doubt it.. and since it cannot be kept alive due to lack of oxygen and 'food', am i right to say that what u are purchasing is 'dead bacteria'? as such, why bother?? dun mind me.. me is strongly against the using such stuff..me prefer to use the natural method*

Probably what happened to the tank was that the bacteria multiplied too quickly, using p oxygen in the process and suffocating your fish - I believe it's a process related to eutrophication. Just don't add too much at the beginning and you'll do fine. 
*alternatively, as the ammonia is rising due to the excess waste, it could be that your fishes are dying from ammonia poisoning*

As for my case, my tank is now with corals &amp;amp; livestock but the ammonia &amp;amp; nitrite are still present and reads 0.5 ppm for ammonia and 0.2 ppm for nitrite. This readings have been the same for a long time (going to a mth). How to bring them low ?
*Ivan, try reducing the feeding.. have u been adding stuff regularly???.. and how long have u run your tank.. is it a month? based on your above statement?.. what i figure could be that ur filter is not able to support the bio-load. U can try NOT adding anymore stuff till both your ammonia and nitrite readings are zero.*

Wat I did is to circulate the tank and aerate it.Add my spare Otto internal filter and eheim 2227. 2 hours later skimmer back to normal (very little foam)Did 25% wc using DI unit yesterday and add (again) 2 damsel as a test.Both are alive, kicking and eating too. I rig the sanders using a 1.5l bottle with a 1/2&amp;quot; PVC pipe as the collection cup. Will cycle tank for 14 days and check water parameter again. Target 0 ppm NH3. Equipment I can buy, time cannot. Anyway getting a chiller today. Cheers.
*Chiller? mind.. u are really willing to spend.. to target zero NH3.. pls be patient..err.. i dun understand what u mean by &amp;quot;equipment i can buy, time cannot&amp;quot;.. time is an impt essence here leh... it will go down naturally...anyway..me know that u did not empty the contents into the tank (i figured that u have more sense than that based on FW keeping;eg, u dun empty the entire content of anti-biotics and expect miracles).. in the meantime, do continue to monitor the water parameters.. if 2 weeks is not enuff, go another week..*

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## setiardi

Now NH3 abt 0~0.25 mg/l.N03 &amp;amp; N02 is picking up too. NH3 will pick up again I guess since adding 12kg of liverock, my final batch.Total now abt 24kg.And yes, continue using the bottle bacteria - less dosage this time.Will update on my DIY skimmer, got leak problems.

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## kelstorm

Now NH3 abt 0~0.25 mg/l.N03 &amp;amp;amp;amp; N02 is picking up too. NH3 will pick up again I guess since adding 12kg of liverock, my final batch.Total now abt 24kg.And yes, continue using the bottle bacteria - less dosage this time.Will update on my DIY skimmer, got leak problems.
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in the meantime, dun add anymore stuff.. let your filter stablise first.. till the NH3 and NO2 hits zero..

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## setiardi

Hi, surprisingly NH3 is 0 with NO3 12.5mg/l and NO2 at 1.6mg/l.Nitrite is coming down and nitrate is peaking. Need I change water now.Thought the addition of 12kg of rock will cause another cycle of NH3?

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## DragonGoby

Probably why you're getting 0 readings for NH3 is that since your system is set up, the bacteria present would have quickly converted NH3 to N03 and NO2. Hence the high levels of NO3 ad NO2 you observe. It's a still high, so don't add any more livestock until nitrites reach 0ppm. 

You're doing well - good luck! =) 

Regards,
Hong Yee

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## kelstorm

Probably why you're getting 0 readings for NH3 is that since your system is set up, the bacteria present would have quickly converted NH3 to N03 and NO2. Hence the high levels of NO3 ad NO2 you observe. It's a still high, so don't add any more livestock until nitrites reach 0ppm. 
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i agree with HongYee.. dun add anymore stuff.. and let the nitrite go down to zero.. changing water will only reduce the nitrates.. but that is not impt now.. it is still fine.. [ :Grin: ]

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## setiardi

This is my tank after 3 months of setup. Currently still using 3 types of filters. A sump + overflow, a 2227 wet/dry filter and internal filter. Actually the last 2 filter mentioned will be sort of temporary until I'm sure my sump is really ready. Currently have 2 chromis, 1 maroon clownfish, 1 damsel and 1 emperor angelfish. Twice added the flame angelfish and purple firefish - both times died. Had my cleaner and fire shrimp die too. All died within 24 hrs of proper introduction. They are the last animals I added before I got algae outbreak 2 weeks back. My water parameters are all 0 No2,No3 and NH3.Ph is ard 8.3.Temp is within 26-27 range with chiller. Also have a few hard and soft coral. All fish and corals are added one at a time. So far my snails left 4 from 6 since adding 1 month ago. Also 1 orange legged hermit. Could the fatalities due to too much too fast. Or just my luck bought sick fish.Anyway pls comment on my tank, no idea if it's really healthy. So far everything else is ok.

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## Tigger

Just to share some info.


Lighting
Recommendation is 2-5W per gallon. Yr tank is abt 15galon. Having 2x36W PL should do the job. Maybe u would like to consider 10 000K PL. More blueish. Gd for coral.


As for the aglae bloom, I supect u on the lite for too long a duration. I have talk to Patrick of marinelife, he recomend 6hrs white lite and 2 hrs actinic to prevent algae boom. thanks

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## kelstorm

firstly, is that brown algae on the rocks? if so, chances are, not enuff lights is reaching it.. considering the fact that it is right on top.. if not, using blue lights is difficult to tell leh.. 3 filtrations methods.. that is a lot leh.. lets not forget that your live rocks and sand bed will provide another further filtration.. honestly, speaking, i can't seem to find any fault with the water parameters.. dun really know how come the fishes died.. sorry to hear that..[: :Smile: ]

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## setiardi

Tigger me tank have 2xpl 2sets.One set is 2x 10k and another set actinic blue and 65k.Thinking of adding a single PL set for actinic bulb. As for the brown algae at the top rock, actually the pic is a bit misleading. Had just rearrange the rocks prior to taking pics.Most probably that one was at the bottom.

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## kelstorm

i know it is a bit ex.. perhaps u would like to try with other dwarf angels first? like coral beauty? to test the water again?? [: :Smile: ]

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## DragonGoby

Setiardi, 

How much did you get your emporer juvenile for? seriously thinking of getting one, but does anyone know if I can keep BOTH a flame angel and an emperor angel together in a 4-footer? thanks!!

Regards,
Hong Yee

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## setiardi

Bought the emperor for $20. From what I seen, though briefly, the two angelfish didn't chase each other in my tank.Even after a few hours of observation. Abt the death, maybe some chemicals like copper? might be the coz.Anyway I think I have a mantis shrimp in my tank.Can hear clicking sound once in a while.Forget to mention, every now and then find dead baby crabs.Found one more today.Also hardly see anyway bristle worm nowdays in my tank.Saw once b4 a baby crab carrying a dead bristleworm for breakfast.I think it caught the worm.

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## kelstorm

hong yee, u can.. provided that it have ample space to hide, u can keep both of them together... btw, just to let u know.. emperor angel can grow till pretty big.. and munch on corals..

setardi, i dun think it is the copper-based.. coz if that is so, your corals and invertebrates are the first to be hit.. [: :Smile: ] could be your mantis shrimp at work too.. ambushing them.. if i were u, i will impale it with a stick and kill it.. as well as the crabs..[ :Grin: ]

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## DragonGoby

If the mantis is big enough can makan also, hehe! [ :Grin: ] REVENGE!!!!!!!

Regards,
Hong Yee

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## DragonGoby

oh ya, kel, what about 2 flames? Thinking of getting at least 1 flame, plus maybe another dwarf angel or a baby emperor. Shld be a long time more before they grow big? Hopefully will have new bigger tank by then!

Regards,
Hong Yee

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## kelstorm

Hongyee,
u want to put 2 flames into the same tank?? i dun advice it.. i last tried that.. and the end result is; i end up without any.. [ :Knockout: ] very expensive lesson... for that price, u want nice ones, i recommend getting potters, lemon peel and flame.. these are the nicest.. i have a yellow dwarf.. similar to lemon peel minus the eye shadow ard it eyes(as what my fiancee call it).. hahaha..btw, potter angel is very nice.. but it is extremely delicate.. require top quality water parameters, much more than flame and lemon peel and they are hardly seen in the market..me kept one b4.. but my coral beauty chased it ard.. and alas, it did not make it.. except to drive my blood pressure up... IT WILL HAPPEN WHEN U SEE YOUR $8 FISH CHASING YOUR $60 FISH!!!!... [ :Knockout: ] 
the emperor juvenile.. but mind u, if u keep corals, it is gonna be destroyed by them.. i recommend keeping Koran if u still like those bluish design.. they are similar but at least, koran is less destructive.. and u can train your koran to eat processed food like tetra bits or vegetables..
and emperor will get destructive with age and also depending on characters, aggressive towards its kind.. unless u just want to have a rock structure tank with angel, i dun recommend it.. [: :Smile: ]

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## DragonGoby

eh Kel, u must teach me the difference between the Koran and Emperor juveniles leh! all look the same ...  :Smile:

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## kelstorm

very simple... get me downgraded and i teach u.. hahaha.. ok.. look at the finnage near the tail.. emperor juvenile have circular spots on them while the koran have only white lines.. that is the distinct part to differentiate the 2.. if not too sure, ask the uncle.. hahaha.. 

emperor juvenile
koran juvenile and adult pic

take a look at the top part of the tail portion and compare.. u should be able to tell the diff now..[ :Grin: ] now.. let's talk abt me getting downgrade.. hahahahahaa.....[ :Grin: ] [ :Grin: ] [ :Grin: ]

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