# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  How does GeX substrate compare against ADA Aquasoil?

## oblivion

Hi all,

Just to ask around if anyone has tried the GeX brand of substrates and hows the results compared against ADA?

See that they are now quite comonly sold in some of our local lfses and there are a few packaging/types available which are roughly as per the below.

Green packaging - for plants
Red packaging - for shrimps and plants
Blue packaging - for ??? (can't make out the jap words)
Black packaging - for ??? (seems like inert shiny black gravel)

Any advise?

----------


## nys

I never seen blue or black packaging in lfs. On the other hand, there is a dark green packaging for plants, small pellet ~2mm which ideal for shrimps to crawl and won't alter the ph.

Fyi, red packaging will lower the ph.

Currently, Im using the light green packaging for plants which its pellet average ~5mm. 4kg for 20L tank, didn't wash it, water cloudy but become crystal clear after 4 hrs. Till now, no water change and just top up only.

Result:
- Petite Nana is a slow growth plant. I directly planted its root, no CO2, no fertilizer till now, lighting ~2wpg for 8hrs. I could see the nana growing daily (rhizome become thicker, longer and new root developing, new shoot to leave within 3 days)
- Didn't measure the ph, but my RCS so far so good.

----------


## oblivion

> I never seen blue or black packaging in lfs. On the other hand, there is a dark green packaging for plants, small pellet ~2mm which ideal for shrimps to crawl and won't alter the ph.
> 
> Fyi, red packaging will lower the ph.
> 
> Currently, Im using the light green packaging for plants which its pellet average ~5mm. 4kg for 20L tank, didn't wash it, water cloudy but become crystal clear after 4 hrs. Till now, no water change and just top up only.
> 
> Result:
> - Petite Nana is a slow growth plant. I directly planted its root, no CO2, no fertilizer till now, lighting ~2wpg for 8hrs. I could see the nana growing daily (rhizome become thicker, longer and new root developing, new shoot to leave within 3 days)
> - Didn't measure the ph, but my RCS so far so good.


see it being sold in many lfses now
hoping to get feedback from people out there who have used the various kinds

apart from the PH lowering properties, what other difference is there between the red and green packaging?
at the packaging theres a small table that says they have the exact same chemical composition
so i can't see whats the difference since i can't read jap for nuts  :Razz:

----------


## nys

I suppose the diff by ph property only.

IMO, not necessary to go for the red one as ph will be lower if there is dw in the tank.

----------


## illumnae

I just bought 4 bags of this for my 4x2x2 tank as ADA amazonia was out of stock...i was told by the shop owner this might actually be better than amazonia as it doesn't cloud, has more stable ph lowering and is of similar composition...i'll try it out and give my feedback =)

i have the light green one for plants

i'm not keeping CRS  :Wink:  it's for my planted discus tank rescape. switching from low tech to moderately-high tech so i got a better substratee suitable for planting. the LFS i went to was out of stock of ADA amazonia so the owner recommended this substrate instead, listing me the benefits i stated above over ADA.

----------


## oblivion

> I just bought 4 bags of this for my 4x2x2 tank as ADA amazonia was out of stock...i was told by the shop owner this might actually be better than amazonia as it doesn't cloud, has more stable ph lowering and is of similar composition...i'll try it out and give my feedback =)


i heard it doesnt cloud
but am unsure of the composition and how it compares against amazonia in terms of plant growth and nutrients

will be great now that you are testing it out!

----------


## nys

> I just bought 4 bags of this for my 4x2x2 tank as ADA amazonia was out of stock...i was told by the shop owner this might actually be better than amazonia as it doesn't cloud, has more stable ph lowering and is of similar composition...i'll try it out and give my feedback =)


Which one? I suppose you have bought the red package type as it has the properties to lower ph.

One of the advantages on this GEX substrate is no washing required. Water will cloud initially and become crystal clear ~4hrs later (for my case, 4kg in a 1ft tank, ~15L water).  :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

First impressions: 

the soil itself looks like ADA soil, and i had no clouding at all even initially after filling the water. tank's been filled with soil and water and the filter's running and i have clear water. i did experience some surface scum when filling water, but i suppose that's normal for all soil substrates.

when i did some planting and moving around of the soil after the tank was 1/3 filled with water, some clouding from the dust in the soil did occur, but it settled really quickly.

all in all, setup with this was a breeze =)

----------


## oblivion

i presume you mean to say that its easier than amazonia based on direct comparison?  :Grin: 

hehe thats good
now only need to know the plant growth and health results of plants grown using this soil

----------


## illumnae

haha no direct comparison for me as i've only ever used africana before, no amazonia. i'm just saying in general it was easy to set up

----------


## oblivion

> haha no direct comparison for me as i've only ever used africana before, no amazonia. i'm just saying in general it was easy to set up


in your opinion, how does it fare against africana then?
in terms of ease of setup, ease of planting, cloudiness issue etc
i know this is a bit subjective but it'll be good to see your views  :Smile:

----------


## nys

I can assure plants grow well.  :Smile:  

Maybe because of very undemanding plants I have.  :Grin:

----------


## oblivion

> I can assure plants grow well.  
> 
> Maybe because of very undemanding plants I have.


hehe maybe  :Grin: 
though i was thinking in terms of more root-uptake demanding species of plants like cryptos and echins

----------


## nys

Oh... I have crypt. Wendtii and Parva in my tank. 2mth old tank, so far only add 2x liq fert, taiwanese brand, *UP*, during last sunday and previous sunday.  :Smile:

----------


## oblivion

> Oh... I have crypt. Wendtii and Parva in my tank. 2mth old tank, so far only add 2x liq fert, taiwanese brand, *UP*, during last sunday and previous sunday.


i presume its doing fine for you since no complaints haha

since this substrate brand is generally new i suppose we won't really know until some time has passed and people who have tried it have had some long term results to report

i will try out either the red or green one the next time my hands get itchy
the packaging catches my attention  :Grin: 
although i only ever saw the light green one.
is there a dark green one? whats the difference?

i confirmed theres a black packaging which has different composition
its shiny black gravel...saw it at yishun aquastar

the blue one also saw at aquastar, looks same kind of packaging but its actually under the five plan brand (which if i am not wrong is also under gex's wing)
its reddish porous gravel if my interpretation of the jap words and picture didnt go wrong  :Razz:

----------


## nys

i presume its doing fine for you since no complaints haha

Because I have undemanding plants.  :Grin:  

since this substrate brand is generally new i suppose we won't really know until some time has passed and people who have tried it have had some long term results to report

Agreed... :Smile:  

i will try out either the red or green one the next time my hands get itchy
the packaging catches my attention  :Grin: 
although i only ever saw the light green one.
is there a dark green one? whats the difference?

I guess the main difference is pellet size. Properties should be same.  :Wink:  

i confirmed theres a black packaging which has different composition
its shiny black gravel...saw it at yishun aquastar

the blue one also saw at aquastar, looks same kind of packaging but its actually under the five plan brand (which if i am not wrong is also under gex's wing)
its reddish porous gravel if my interpretation of the jap words and picture didnt go wrong  :Razz: 

I saw in NA and Aquastar last Sat.  :Roll Eyes:  

Btw, based on my interpretation on those jpn words, the light green packaging substrate should be volcanic soil.  :Cool:

----------


## joydiv

Think the difference is in the gravel size.
Red ones is smaller, like amazonia powder ,than the green one.

----------


## illumnae

well not sure if anyone reads my 4x2x2 journal thread, but i've had a big misfortune in my tank.

but with the misfortune comes some good news i guess - good feedback about Gex substrate.

basically for those who haven't read my thread, my psychotic discus have been thrashing around the substrate and uprooting all my foreground plants, whacking the substrate around until i can see the glass bottom of the tank. despite this, the water remains largely clear except for some cloudiness that clears/settles in minutes. not sure if ADA can do this as well? from what i've heard if my discus did that in an ADA substrate i'd have murky water for weeks.

also, the uprooted hairgrass, after 2 weeks, have long and bushy roots growing out...i'm assuming this is due to good root fertilization and not just water column fertilization right? the past 2 weeks have been without root tabs, so it seems the nutrient level in the soil is very good as well.

a small consolation to the fact that my tank is now ruined is that the substrate is good i guess haha.

----------


## valice

> not sure if ADA can do this as well? from what i've heard if my discus did that in an ADA substrate i'd have murky water for weeks.


Given that your tank is less than 2 months old, even the Amazonia I will have no problem. Sp that is not a fair comment.

Problem starts when the substrate is old and the soil slowly breaks down.

----------


## oblivion

i have officially joined the GeX club!!!  :Jump for joy:  
decided to plump for the 2kg light green (for plants) packaging to try out for my new 1-foot cube setup

the soil is great!
its like AS Amazonia (crumbles slightly more easily than Amazonia imo)
planting is easy and same as with AS
more importantly and I believe several others have said this already
the water is crystal clear right from the start!!!
no yellowish, no whitish, no cloudiness no nothing!

----------


## illumnae

> Given that your tank is less than 2 months old, even the Amazonia I will have no problem. Sp that is not a fair comment.
> 
> Problem starts when the substrate is old and the soil slowly breaks down.


that's quite remarkable. 

most of the complaints about ADA soil i've read about on various forums are cloudiness from day 1. experienced ADA soil users have advised laying a saucer and/or plastic sheet while filling water to avoid the cloudiness with the reason given being that it avoids stirring up the soil, which leads me to believe that the cause of cloudiness in an ADA soil tank is the stirring up of the soil. 

given that my discus totally whipped up the Gex soil, i'm honestly quite surprised to be told that i'd see clear water again in a matter of minutes with ADA soil as well...this is definitely contrary to the reports given by many new users like myself  :Smile:

----------


## oblivion

clear water with ADA within minutes even if you whipped up the substrate layer???

per my experience, if it clears up within 2 days you should be thankful (or you have a damn power filter)

i once messed up the soil through my own replanting and rescaping and it took a week
and i didn't even whack it to the glass bottom like your discus did

GeX really does give you the clear water results though
experienced it slightly when i shift the rocks here and there and crumble some of the soil but fill water liao still crystal clear

----------


## williamng

Do we need based fert with this? Or not necessary?

----------


## David Moses Heng

not needed. Basically GEX soil functions in the same manner as ADA. I am not using base fert for my GEX substrate for my 422 which i will be setting up on by next monday. NOw the tank is under going cycling and at the same time, i soaking my DW inside. :Smile:

----------


## daveteogh

GEX substrate sounds great... maybe I shall use this to setup a new 1ft cube  :Smile:  

My friend nys is using this as well and feedback is good... very tempting to try it out  :Grin:

----------


## oblivion

i find it easy to use and no clouding issues like AS
setup just 1 day so no plant growth results yet
will monitor and post my observations

im using the plain soil also
no base fert
although im planning to insert ferka rosetta tabs for my e. tenellus in the new 1-foot cube
but will wait and see how they fare before deciding to add or not

btw, i bought a spiffy neat looking thermometer also by GeX from NA.
Small clear suction cup and the thermometer indicator is blue in color
very minimalist - looks good  :Grin:

----------


## daveteogh

> i find it easy to use and no clouding issues like AS
> setup just 1 day so no plant growth results yet
> will monitor and post my observations
> 
> im using the plain soil also
> no base fert
> although im planning to insert ferka rosetta tabs for my e. tenellus in the new 1-foot cube
> but will wait and see how they fare before deciding to add or not


Yes please post your observations... I was told plants grow fast with this GEX soil.





> btw, i bought a spiffy neat looking thermometer also by GeX from NA.
> Small clear suction cup and the thermometer indicator is blue in color
> very minimalist - looks good


I am using this as well... cheap and the best looking miniature thermometer I can find in the market  :Grin:

----------


## nys

I'm using GEX substrate for 2.5mth liao...  :Smile:  

So far quite happy with it. One observation is some of the pellets will turn either white or light brown colour.  :Opps:  

I think GEX substrate should be quite rich in nutrients. My crypts are well growing. Even my petite nana are growing fast (I planted its root into the substrate).  :Grin:

----------


## aquanatix

Though i rinsed the gravel a few times,been getting cloudy water right from the start as opposed to what most people claim here.
I poured water through a sifter producing sprinkles and filled my 2footer very slowly.Am i doing anything wrongly?
Don't seem to get that much debris clouds with other substrates that i've encountered including aquaclay.

----------


## Shadow

do you have corry or other fish that disturb gravel? 

Aguaclay is a hard baked clay, whereas ADA is processed mud and it will turn back to mud after few years. You can't compare both. The end result also different  :Wink:

----------


## nys

I didn't rinsed the Gex substrate and encountered cloudy water. But the water became crystal clear 4hrs later.  :Smile:

----------


## valice

Did a comparison of GeX substrate and ADA substrate and this is what I feel.

1) GeX has a very very high iron contain compared with ADA soil. I came up with the conclusion due to a magnetised pincette I have. I crushed the GeX soil and then the ADA soil. More of the soil particles from GeX were sticking to my pincette compared to ADA.

2) GeX texture is more "crispy" and hard to the touch compared to ADA soil. This could again be due to the content of the soil.

3) GeX does not release air bubbles when the tank is filled with water like ADA. This could might mean that the composition and treatment process of the two soils are different. GeX seems to be fired up in the heat more than ADA soil. And the individual soil granuales seems to be more compact compared to ADA.

All these reasons could have caused GeX to not crumble into soil like ADA.

But lets wait for a year of the soil in the tank and a few rescapes before we all come out with a conclusion of whether GeX is better or ADA is better.

BTW, is GeX cheaper than ADA weight for weight?

----------


## nys

> Did a comparison of GeX substrate and ADA substrate and this is what I feel.
> 
> 1) GeX has a very very high iron contain compared with ADA soil. I came up with the conclusion due to a magnetised pincette I have. I crushed the GeX soil and then the ADA soil. More of the soil particles from GeX were sticking to my pincette compared to ADA.


Wo... No wonder my crypts so well growing. They like Fe rich substrate.  :Grin:

----------


## oblivion

> Did a comparison of GeX substrate and ADA substrate and this is what I feel.
> 
> 1) GeX has a very very high iron contain compared with ADA soil. I came up with the conclusion due to a magnetised pincette I have. I crushed the GeX soil and then the ADA soil. More of the soil particles from GeX were sticking to my pincette compared to ADA.
> 
> 2) GeX texture is more "crispy" and hard to the touch compared to ADA soil. This could again be due to the content of the soil.
> 
> 3) GeX does not release air bubbles when the tank is filled with water like ADA. This could might mean that the composition and treatment process of the two soils are different. GeX seems to be fired up in the heat more than ADA soil. And the individual soil granuales seems to be more compact compared to ADA.
> 
> All these reasons could have caused GeX to not crumble into soil like ADA.
> ...


although we don;t know the exact specifics comapred against ADA
but GeX does seem to have to have high iron content based on the composition chart at the back of the packaging

and price wise, its around same as ADA
definitely not cheaper

----------


## illumnae

> Do we need based fert with this? Or not necessary?


not required at all. planted my tank 2 weeks ago and the roots on my plants have grown extensively, surprisingly when the discus whacked up the substrate at the hairgrass area, i was shocked when the stem plants (i had blood stargrass and blyxa japonica nearby) didn't get uprooted by the turmoil as my experience with stem plants was that they get uprooted really eaily. 

upon closer inspection it was because the stem plants had grown roots that clung well to the soil...needless to say the root monster echis, crypts, lotuses and criniums weren't even fazed.

i think that's an indication of very good root fertilization?

----------


## oblivion

one other thing i noticed about GeX
When you fill water during initial setup, GeX seems to to have less stuff floating up than ADA

----------


## valice

Also noticed that GeX don't have the soil smell like ADA? Maybe the "soil" in GeX is not really soil like ADA. It seems like it is more manufactured compounds.

lee, I agree on the floatation stuff. ADA soil sometimes you find wood shavings, peat moss. It is like, they added real soil compose inside.

----------


## oblivion

You can also see wood shavings and peat moss inside GeX just like AS
However, after filling water nothing much seems to float up

And you are right about the smell. Not much smell for GeX

----------


## genes

GeX substrate does turns water milky. Here's a picture of a newly setup tank with GeX. The water turns milky when the substrate is stirred. Hence, i should say, GeX substrate is no difference from ADA aquasoil interms of water clearness when setting up a tank.

It all boils down to how the hobbist fills the water in the tank. I can get clear water too using Ammazonia and Africana.

----------


## Ansell

Hi genes,

Care to share how long did it take your filtration system to make the water clear again? Some members here did mention about 3-4hrs without water change.

----------


## EvolutionZ

hi guys, this thread is just in time!.. im rescaping my 23cm tank. decided to use GeX substrate. can anyone PM me where to get the dark green packaging one and how much issit for 2l or 2kg one. thanks!

----------


## illumnae

Eugene, how much stirring did you do to get your water that milky? my experience is still that with extreme agitation from my discus, my water only showed a small dust cloud that cleared within minutes.

as for just setting up the tank, i filled my water the "correct" way so i didn't get any significant clouding

----------


## genes

I never did time the duration for it to settle. So i can't comment on that. Because by the time i see the tank again. It has gone through multiple water changes to clear the water.

The tank was filled with water without laying any plastic sheet at the bottom. This is to test if GeX really does give clear water from the start. Water was milky after water fill. It became worse as seen in the picture after i level the gravel using my hands.

----------


## daveteogh

I was told by my friend who uses this... using GEX does get milky water from the start... but it settle within hours with clear water... so this is a positive point as compare to ADA I guess  :Grin:

----------


## Shadow

In my experience using ADA, it took about 3 to 4 days for it to settle. I can leave with that.

----------


## EvolutionZ

in my experience using ADA. i place a acrylic board on top of the ada and use a small tube to refil the water. after water is full. water is crystal clear with no signs of cloudiness.

----------


## stetan

I have just set up a new tank using GeXX. No cloudiness at all. Even when I accidently stir it up, it cause only slight cloudiness anf it cleared within 30 mins.

That's my experience for the past week.

----------


## valice

I was wondering. What is the actual definition of the different forum's cloudiness?

Cloudiness due to floating particles or cloudiness due to bacteria bloom or cloudiness due to what?

And when the GeX users say they don't get cloudiness, have they used ADA before?

----------


## krabbie

> from my comparison, Gex was cheaper overall, but as valice mentioned i do know that certain places price Gex higher than ADA. 
> 
> my comparison is based on the cheapest ADA i've found vs the cheapest Gex i've found (both at different shops). pm me if you want more details 
> 
> to be perfectly fair, however, the price difference between the 2 at most shops, if not all, should be marginal so buy according to your own preference.


Actually so far, I have been to quite a few shops and GEX is really higher priced that ADA. I know which shop you are referring to that sells GEX cheapest (hopefully they are not monitoring this thread and it is still the cheapest  :Grin:  ) .. I have not been there though. Will probably make a trip there in one of these days.

----------


## oblivion

> I was wondering. What is the actual definition of the different forum's cloudiness?
> 
> Cloudiness due to floating particles or cloudiness due to bacteria bloom or cloudiness due to what?
> 
> And when the GeX users say they don't get cloudiness, have they used ADA before?


when i say cloudiness
i mean cloudiness due to floating particles
i have used both ADA and GeX, and i fill water for both (or any gravel/substrate for that matter) in the same manner
i get less cloudiness from GeX
thats my opinion

of course i only used GeX once
so maybe we need more tests to be sure  :Razz:

----------


## lolo

The largest package of GEX is 8kg. so i think it is expensive than ADA, which comes with 9 liter pack.

----------


## Shadow

is 9L = 9kg? What is 9L equivalent to in kg?

----------


## Quixotic

There is always usage for all brands of substrates, besides GeX and ADA. Eventually, it all boils down to what you want with your scape and how you use them.

What about cloudiness? I personally don't care much for them because nitrogen cycle takes 3 weeks anyway. So by the time the tank is properly cycled, any cloudiness (from any substrate) should have been cleared by then (unless I am not doing something quite right).

IMHO, direct comparisons are quite useless, it's like comparing apples and oranges. 

From the content analysis on the packaging, main GeX components are these:

SiO2 (silicon dioxide aka silica) - 48.2%
Al2O3 (aluminium oxide) - 23.9%
Fe2O3 (ferric oxide) - 11.3%

----------


## valice

SiO2? Isn't that sand?

----------


## illumnae

using this link, http://web.ukonline.co.uk/fred.moor/...rmed/f0107.htm on soil compositions, it seems that having 48.2% of sand in Gex makes it loam or clay, depending on the percentage of clay and silt found in it. 

Ideally, loam has 40% sand composition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loam). Clay consists of a variety of phyllosilicate minerals rich in silicon and aluminium oxides and hydroxides, so given that aluminium oxide is at 23.9%, Gex soil should classify as medium loam (assumption based on limited numbers available)

From my limited knowledge, loam is ideal for plant growing. Going by Quixotic's breakdown of Gex soil, it seems so far that the relatively high percentage of sand in Gex is a good thing and makes it a good planting substrate  :Laughing:

----------


## lolo

> is 9L = 9kg? What is 9L equivalent to in kg?


9 liter is approximately equal to 20 lbs / 9.07kgs  :Smile:

----------


## Shadow

The good thing is Gex come in small size, good for 1ft tank

----------


## David Moses Heng

the cloudiness for my 422 Gex clouds after 4 days. But then again this could be due to the fact that i was disturbing the substrate since day one up to day 4 for planting. NOw my tank is about 7 - 10 days already and the water is really clear.  :Smile:  price wise, i think ADA and Gex is the same but what makes Gex so user friendly is that they comes in smaller packets. :Smile:

----------


## oblivion

> The good thing is Gex come in small size, good for 1ft tank





> the cloudiness for my 422 Gex clouds after 4 days. But then again this could be due to the fact that i was disturbing the substrate since day one up to day 4 for planting. NOw my tank is about 7 - 10 days already and the water is really clear.  price wise, i think ADA and Gex is the same but what makes Gex so user friendly is that they comes in smaller packets.


very true
with 800g and 2kg packs, very convenient for small setups and mini touch/top-ups
decoration sand also comes in a handy 1kg pack
can't argue with the convenience

i didnt touch my substrate since day1 for the new 1-foot cube using Gex
water has been crystal clear all the way
and judging by the filter wool as the first layer in my filter, there is seriously nothing to cloud the water
the wool is still totally white with barely a few specks of brown

----------


## illumnae

it could be that it sinks because it's porous and absorbs water, similar to how sponges sink when soaked in water...and we all know that sponges are definitely lighter than water of equal volume when dry  :Laughing:

----------


## riccia

I just bought a light green 2kg pack from a very reputable LFS that most of us patronised yesterday. If I used the buying price to divide by the number of kg and multiply by 9l (or approximately 9kg), the price of GEX is definitely higher than ADA weight for weight.

----------


## nys

> I just bought a light green 2kg pack from a very reputable LFS that most of us patronised yesterday. If I used the buying price to divide by the number of kg and multiply by 9l (or approximately 9kg), the price of GEX is definitely higher than ADA weight for weight.


You are not comparing apple to apple. Small package definitely more expensive.

----------


## riccia

Of course small packages are more expensive. Some of us here found that GEX price is higher and it is a fact. I am not against GEX but just stating a fact or else I would not have bought it in the first place. Anyway, they are 2 different products with 2 different brand names and 2 different pricing. Can't wait to start using them soon.




> You are not comparing apple to apple. Small package definitely more expensive.

----------


## illumnae

9 litres of ADA does not = 9kg. this was discussed before if you bothered to read the whole thread. i did a side by side comparison of ADA 9li and Gex 8kg and to the naked eye, they are the same volume. volume is what matters not weight.

as i've mentioned before, 8kg of Gex is cheaper than 9li of ADA. thus a direct comparison will show that pricewise, Gex is the forerunner here. and THIS, my friend, is the fact, not what you stated above  :Cool: 

another thing to stir the pot a little: any price comparisons should be made between Gex and Amazonia II, not the original Amazonia. the reason being that ADA themselves have admitted than Amazonia has cloudiness issues with soft water and that's the reason behind coming out with Amazonia II.

Except for 1 person who has come out to say that Amazonia has no cloudiness issues, I think the general consensus is that Gex's biggest advantage over ADA is that it does not have problems with cloudiness. As such, it would be more accurate to compare Gex soil with Amazonia II (a similar product) as opposed to the original Amazonia (an inferior product because of cloudiness)

As it stands, Gex is already cheaper than the inferior product, what more the similar product?

----------


## BFG

I think cloudiness can be determine to end user error. Disturbing the substrate aggressively while planting or filling the tank with water without diffusing the water coming out of the hose or introducing large amount of water into the tank itself.

Also introducing bottom dwelling animal that will disturb the substrate would be placed as end user error too. The animal will not be at fault as it is at the disgression of the owner to know what he is adding.

----------


## illumnae

for Gex soil, however, even with aggressive disturbance while planting or because of fauna (i've had both), my water clears up in mere minutes. i believe i've read enough ADA sob tales to know that this doesn't happen with ADA, even brand new ADA

----------


## BFG

> for Gex soil, however, even with aggressive disturbance while planting or because of fauna (i've had both), my water clears up in mere minutes. i believe i've read enough ADA sob tales to know that this doesn't happen with ADA, even brand new ADA



I have to refute this claim. Here's my experience with ADA Aquasoil Amazonia.

I was among the 1st few who were involved in a bulk order for ADA Amazonia through Biotope ( the 1st owner, not Thio ) quite a few years ago before there was an lfs selling ADA substrate. I also has helped a couple of colleague to use ADA Aquasoil in their tank when they wanted to start a planted tank setup. And I use a combination of JBL base fert with Aquasoil on all the setup I was involved in setting up. The cloudiness issue did not crop up as I was careful handling Aquasoil. What I find from feedback from my colleague that the water was very clear the next day, not that it was even cloudy in the 1st place. Of course I had dismissed their remark as they may have been excited having a planted tank setup. But for my personal experience setting up 2 planted tank with the same combination, no cloudiness was noticed.

I can safely say your mileage may vary.

----------


## Shadow

Why is so concern about cloudiness? It is good enough for me as long as it does not last forever. 30 minutes or 1 week does not make any different. Plant does not grow over night, it take time for them to grow nicely and when it does, I want the water to be clear. I bet even ADA cloudiness should be over by that time.

I'm more concern on the ph and kH lowering property as well as the nutrient content. Any one can comment on this?

Thread from quixotic:
SiO2 (silicon dioxide aka silica) - 48.2&#37;
Al2O3 (aluminum oxide) - 23.9%
Fe2O3 (ferric oxide) - 11.3%

and from Valiece:
Composition of ADA soil is a tightly guarded secret

Means we can't compare both of them

So does any one see the different in plants grow between Gex and ADA? of course this also depent on the fert dossing, CO2 and light

----------


## gwabbie

I'm currently using GEX now, when i first used it, it was all black(colour of the soil), but now after using it for 4 months, there are brown soil.
i got the light green packaging.
I'm not too sure if these brown soil are coloured or wrapped in black soil.
I'm using GEX for my shrimp tank.
but overall, im still ok with using GEX soil

----------


## yeoyl87

I think the mere different now is your preference. Both GeX and ADA II are roughly the same in price, in look and in function. So many people tried GeX and so far the responses are good, ADA also have their fair share of happy users. 

I was planning to pick up a pack of GeX at Biotope that day but changed to ADA II instead cause so far there is no review on it. In my opinion, the price is not too much of a dif. Thus I buy and try out ADA II. A lot of improvement has been made I should say. 
After adding in the water, I realised that I need more adjustment. Being lazy, I simply pour in the rest of ADA II just like that!! A big no-no right? The cloudiness problem has been greatly improved in ADA II. Oh well, I get perfect crystal clear water in a few hours. Plants growing well now after 1 week of change.

I guess it is all about which brand you more comfortable with now. Just go for whatever is cheaper at that shop. Not much Dif in GeX and ADA now I would say.

----------


## illumnae

i fully agree that comparison is more accurate between Gex and Amazonia II. Pricewise, I'd still say Gex is cheaper if you know where to look, and it's a commonly visited LFS so it's convenient to get the cheap Gex.

I've read reports that Amazonia II deals with tha cloudiness issue by reducing the amount of black soil in the product, which makes it not as nutrient rich as the original Amazonia. According to one of the 2 USA distributors of ADA, Amazonia II is a good "beginner" soil, but it sacrifices nutrients...if you know what you're doing, still go for the original Amazonia (words not mine, I paraphrased it from someone who called up the USA distributor). So it seems that Amazonia II gives up something to gain something else. Gex possesses both high nutrients and clear water.

It's good that you are trying Amazonia II, yeoyl87. I think it's good when people try out new products, as better alternatives could be found that makes our lives easier. A great example is this thread. If the first few pioneers of Gex didn't try it out and post their experiences here, we wouldn't have found a better product, and ADA would still be the recommended best substrate by everyone here.

At the end of the day, we as users benefit most from innovation and price competition between the various brands. Blind brand loyalty is only detrimental to us and beneficial to the pockets of the brand owners and distributors.

----------


## yeoyl87

I also read that ADA II has reduced their black soil level to eliminate yellow water problem. My question here is by how much have they lowered the nutrient level? Lower than GeX?

Any bro tried Magic soil? Hows magic soil? I know the granular size is bigger. Personally I prefer small ones like ADA or GeX. What about cloudines? yellow water? 

What Bro illumnae said is right, we have to put in some judgement when buying the goods and not plunge in blindly because of the brand. We should give chance to other distributors to showcase their goods. With more variety, we will have more choice and of course, the competition will pull down the price  :Grin:  

I think we should just give comment on the goods and refrain from "GeX is best or ADA is better" type of conclusion. Allow the other user to have a chance to exercise their own judgement, let them try out for themselves and decide which is the best for them. Don't result in blind followers who simply follow what people feels and said.  :Grin: 

Bro illumnae, how much is your cheapest GeX? I curious also.  :Razz:  The cheapest I seen is $12.60. Mod, ok to name price but no shop name right? Paiseh if violate, delete if needed.

----------


## gwabbie

i would say magic soil doesn't cloud the water and its good for shrimp 
as i am using it in one of my tank. it maintains the pH to abt 6.4, which is needed for shrimps.
and because of its large granular size, its harder to plant. therefore i only have moss inside.

----------


## Jaws

> i would say magic soil doesn't cloud the water and its good for shrimp 
> as i am using it in one of my tank. it maintains the pH to abt 6.4, which is needed for shrimps.
> and because of its large granular size, its harder to plant. therefore i only have moss inside.


Magic don't cloud? Does that mean someone sold me fake magic soil? Mine cloud like nobody business.

----------


## genes

Just wondering, has anyone tried cultivating toninas in GEX substrate?

Yixiang, you not using any ammazonia right? Your africana causes your water to turn yellow? Thats strange. I have a row of tanks with africana and the next row with ammazonia. Africana seems to produce clearer water then ammazonia. But this should be attributed to the lighter coloured substrate thus brighter and clearer looking tanks. However, yellowish for both ammazonia and africana is a definate no. 

Just to share my 2 years experience of using ADA aquasoil.

----------


## illumnae

> Just wondering, has anyone tried cultivating toninas in GEX substrate?
> 
> Yixiang, you not using any ammazonia right? Your africana causes your water to turn yellow? Thats strange. I have a row of tanks with africana and the next row with ammazonia. Africana seems to produce clearer water then ammazonia. But this should be attributed to the lighter coloured substrate thus brighter and clearer looking tanks. However, yellowish for both ammazonia and africana is a definate no. 
> 
> Just to share my 2 years experience of using ADA aquasoil.


my africana is crystal clear, but my africana is also devoid of nutrients and i have to resort to using root tabs to keep my plants growing. comparing africana to Gex is like comparing apples to oranges. as far as i know, the only proper use for africana is to achieve low ph to support the keeping of fishes with special requirements for low ph. as a planted substrate, it's worthless. and the bottom line of our debate here is the planted aspect of substrates. if you bother to read my posts, my comparisons have always been Amazonia vs Gex. it's just that at times, ADA is easier to type, but anyone following this thread should realise i refer only to amazonia.

I believe that a couple of neutral people have posted and said that the cloudiness caused by ADA doesn't matter either because #1 cycling takes longer than the cloudiness takes to clear or #2 they don't mind waiting a week for cloudiness to clear. what does this mean? this means that Amazonia indeed does cause cloudiness, but the cloudiness is not an issue because of the 2 abovementioned reasons.

at the end of the day, we can argue till the cows come home about which you think is better, but i think what we can conclude based on testimonies by people posting here is this:

1. Amazonia is high in nutrients, Gex is high in nutrients.
2. Amazonia causes cloudy water that lasts for days or weeks, Gex causes cloudy water that lasts for minutes or hours.
3. Gex is cheaper

Draw your own final conclusions on which you'd prefer from the above.

----------


## bslong

I am using GenX(red package) and peat moss to lower my ph.
But so far the ph is still around 7.5.
I will like to know if the ph will go down somemore as times goes by?
Or there is a limit as to how low it will go depending on the kh of water?
So far my tank is about 3weeks old only.

----------


## StanChung

I tried the Gex soil late last year. From what I saw, it's 1st impressions or good with regards to water clarity, better than Amazonia for sure, but if you know how to handle Amazonia then it's no problem. Nothing a WIWO[water in water out] can't fix. [Unless you're doing a behemoth tank where WC takes days!]

I also noticed long term stabilty and plant quality show a remarked decrease in growth from what I saw. Hairgrass [E acicularis] was harder to grow than in Amazonia. I could get it to carpet fully in 1.5 months with Amazonia. However, since substrate is only part of the equation in growing plants, I would say a little experimentation is needed to get the right balance for the GEX soil.

----------


## illumnae

Thanks for your feedback on Gex Stan  :Smile: 

Here's my experience after about 6 weeks (I finished planting on 3 August). 

1. The hairgrass (no idea what's the scientific name, it was sold to me as hairgrass) is nicely carpeting, growing both horizontally and vertically...i give it a weekly haircut to encourage horizontal growth and to keep the lawn low. 

2. The red lotuses are deep blood red and have grown from about 1.5 inch diameter to almost palm size...they also show 2-3 inches of growth per week and i find myself having to cut away leaves that reach the surface pretty often

3. Sword plants have noticeably grown in height and leaf density...the reddish/brownish one (i think it's rubin but i'm not 100&#37; sure) has retained its red/brown colour well too

4. Crypts are growing well, more than double in height from when they were first planted...didn't experience any melting at all, but i think that's probably because they were wendtiis, i've read that wendtiis don't melt?

5. blyxa japonica is thick and lush now, forming a very lush bush as compared to the thin clumps i planted in 6 weeks back.

6. crinium flowered once a few weeks ago, but other than that i don't see anything noticeable with them.

This is my experience thus far with Gex, and i'm very satisfied with both the growth and the clear water after my discus panic attacks =) Of course soil isn't the only factor to growth, as i'm dosing EI, running 3wpg and adding CO2...but i'm sure the subtrate plays a part as well

----------


## PeterGwee

If you want to compare substrate quality, you need to ensure that the water column is lean (so that it doesn't influence the results) and that the CO2 is relatively equal for both tanks. (Lots of work and calibration of good test kits is needed.)

Regards,
Peter Gwee

----------


## tcy81

think if you really what to compare which substrate is better, need to setup 2 identical tank with same plants , lighting , co2 & fertilizer dosing.
 :Smile:

----------


## Jaws

Will update on my 4ft tank with Gex soon. Setting up early next month.

----------


## aquanatix

My gex has no clouding after 2months of usage.
As opposed to what happened in the early stages of setup,all problems raised earlier were now gone. Could age be a influencing factor?

----------


## planted86

today i went to THAT AQUARIUM(thats the real name) and i saw 3 different GEX packaging... what are the differences??

----------


## EvolutionZ

green packing - for plants
dark green packing - also for plants
red packing - for shrimps. main point is to lower pH

----------


## illumnae

to add to Evolutionz's explanation:

Light Green is for planted tanks with larger grain size (think ADA Amazonia)
Dark green is also for planted tanks with smaller grain size (think ADA Amazonia powder)
Red is for shrimp
Blue seems to be biogravel/aquaclay

----------


## EvolutionZ

was wondering the grain size of the red pack is the same as dark green or light green packing one?

hi guys, heres my view on GeX substrate.
i bought 2kg red pack GeX substrate.
to top up my 9l ADA soil
compare gravel pellet size. GeX is way smaller and darker. the grain size looks like its ADA powder like that. and also not so much "rubbish" mixed together with the soil. i have noticed ada have lots of wood shreds and tend to bubble and float when 1st day of set up. GeX never does that.
i filled up my tank as usual.and tank was crystal clear =)

----------


## heeroyu16

Hi guys manged to find the Gex's Website
I used google to tranlate it to english

Here's the link http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gex-fp.co.jp%2Ffish%2Fcatalog%2Fsand%2Findex.html%23kawasuna1

Don't expect perfect translation

----------


## torque6

this is an old thread. basically gex substrate has 2 popular types now. shrimp with fine gravel [green packet+ has a small Crs pic on the right] and the large gravel named shrimp and plants substrate [red], both are good as it doesn't shift PH. I m using the red ones and the moment i scape, the water clears in 2 hours.

----------


## zoombee

Can see the texture with a close up shot

I just realised that I actually been using the red GEX without my knowledge  :Wink: 

Bought it when i just wanted to try out a nano tank without any knowledge.

my comments as a noob are water really clear up fast within 2 hours after i fill my tank.

I have never tried other soil but newly hairgrass seems to be easily uprooted by my shrimps. I have to replant them almost every night. Soil feels loose.

my comment is not really fair because i do not have a chance to compare.

my new setup i will go with ADA for a change due to many good reviews from my friends  :Smug: .. Don't flame me please  :Blah:

----------


## illumnae

newly planted hairgrass will probably be easily uprooted by shrimp regardless of the substrate if not planted properly (e.g. planted too shallow)  :Smile:  i just planted some japanese hairgrass in on sunday, and my yamato/tiger shrimp have only managed to uproot 1 plantlet thus far...probably due to my own carelessness (was planting the grass past midnight)

you're right about the clear water though, that's one of the main selling points of Gex imo...anyhow pour water in also can get clear water in a short time  :Grin: 

if you're not into shrimp breeding, you could try the dark green package of Gex soil, which is roughly equivalent to ADA powder form in terms of size, but costs the same as the light green/red package. being smaller in grain size, it looks better and also helps to hold the plants down better

----------


## catohcat

i just changed my soils to GEX.. the water is amazingly clean just an hour later.. and now it looks even cleaner than before =D

- A happy user of Gex soil  :Grin:  -

----------


## aquaX

Recently i have decided to resetup my 6ft tank (tough job) and taken into account on the reviews on GEX i have decided to changed the soil also. 

Its is about 10 hours since i've put in water. 

I would say its clear but could still see that it is still abit cloudy, will it improve? 

Or it is just bacterial boom?

----------


## jowy_ham

Can I mix all 3 types of GeX sold together ?

Reason being, I have GeX light green packaging leftover from my previous setup but it is not enough for a 2.5ft cube setup. After reading up here, decided to give the red & dark green packaging a try (since I'm into planted and shrimps). Went to Y618 and bought 4 packs, 2 packs of each (got a very very good price for it  :Grin: )

My thinking is the red packaging is for shrimps and dark green packaging is of small size thus easier to plant smaller plants like HC/glosso.

At the moment, I still have not pour them into my tank but which to get some opinion on whether can I mix them altogether.  :Razz:

----------


## catohcat

The advantage of the red soils is that the big size prevent stirring up of soilds, which makes water crystal clear & prevents leaking of harmful toxin to the shrimps. The advantage of the red soils is that the small size enable to hold plants.

I'm afraid when you mix them up, you will end up with a "new" product which both stirring up the dirts + too big to hold plants....Why dont you put the green soils at the bottom and red soil on top?

----------


## Goondoo

> The advantage of the *red soils* is that the big size prevent stirring up of soilds, which makes water crystal clear & prevents leaking of harmful toxin to the shrimps. The advantage of the *red soils* is that the small size enable to hold plants.


Confused?!?  :Confused:

----------


## illumnae

i think the 2nd "red soils" refers to the dark green packaging, which has a smaller grain size to allow plants to take root better

----------


## noblespirit

> I using the light green packing too.  
> 
> Since you intend to keep CRS, the red one is more appropriate. Or maybe the darker green packing which its pellets are fine.


hi,i am using the green pack type light green and dark green ,only difference is the pallet size thats all.both have crs in the tank adult and shrimplets all doing fine.and it bred as well.cheers!!:

----------


## torque6

My Gex substrate cleared up after 2hrs of new setup. Really good, though i would prefer i had gone for the green instead of the reds.

----------


## illumnae

mine clears up in 30 minutes even after massive stirring up  :Wink:  My opinion is also that it is a better substrate than ADA.

dark and light green are both excellent for plant use. My experience with them is that dark green (small granule) is MUCH easier to plant in, but light green clears up faster and isn't kicked up as easily as the dark green. I use dark green in a planted Apisto tank and since they have bred, the dad and mom love to suddenly dash out from near the substrate to chase away dithers, and their sudden movement will kick up the gravel. After awhile, i see a fine dusting of fine gravel on my rocks and nanas. no such problems with light green. in terms of plant growth, as mentioned earlier, both are excellent. I think the disadvantage of the dark green can be mitigated by keeping bottom dwelling livestock out of the tank till your foreground plant has taken hold.

----------


## Jervis

Just to share my personal experience with full ADA substrate setup (Amazonia II).

On the day of setup.

2.55pm - Dry rockscaping


3.45pm - Filling up water


5.30pm - Tank filled


6.30pm (the next day) - After planting


Cloudiness?  :Roll Eyes: 

Just to add... I was told that Amazonia II is an improved version... perhaps they have resolved the "cloudiness" issue. So far I am happy with ADA  :Smug:

----------


## illumnae

I think people have come and gone on this thread saying that it is *possible* for ADA tanks to be filled without cloudiness. that is not disputed. however, can ADA tanks be stirred up and uncloud within 30minutes? while some people may say "why would i do that?" but the fact is that *if* this happens, GEX is the superior product because of its quick clarity. I believe that this does happen for many people (especially those new to the hobby and don't know to fill their tanks the way you do). 

My personal experience is stressed fish thrashing about the bottom of the tank and stirring up ALL the substrate (3 inches thick) for 1/4 of the tank. the cloudiness raised was very contained to the area 1/2 a foot above the stirred up area and it settled/disappeared in less than 30 minutes. I've also done an entire rescape with Gex (removing all hardscape buried in the soil as well as uprooting all the plants) and left the fish inside (including my precious zebra otos) and i had less than 15 minutes of cloudiness and not a single fish death. that is, i believe, what is superior about Gex

----------


## aquanatix

Anyway...Jervis point on the NEW ADA Amazonia II being improved sounds interesting enough. So far the cloudiness issue seems to be one of the main concerns with the disputing brands..perhaps more comments or a test between the two brands would help clear up claims once and for all? Make no mistake, i'm into my 3rd tank with GEX and so far no complains regarding cloudiness issues! :Smile:  I frequently mess with my tanks and often stir up gravel BIG TIME especially when i try catching faster livestock like plecos and corydoras. I never really have to wait too long before tank clears up,which is something i really like when i wanna see adjustments almost immediately? BUT...as a fish freak who is planning even more planted tanks in the near future(hopefully?),i'd really love to see a comparison between the various brands available out there! I'm sure it'd be a very interesting experiment and eye opener to all of us here especially people whom are very new to the hobby and are here to learn more before making investments. I believe the substrate is the make or die factor when it comes to a planted setup and this information would go a long way for everyone? 
*ADA vs Gex vs Magic soil vs Dennerle etc...* anyone?  :Grin: 
Anyway beetlejuice,if you're interested i usually get my Gex supply from the Clementi LFS. Both shops there offer pretty reasonable prices? Never did a price comparison though,but Clementi has always been my magic place when it comes to aquarium "barang barang"! I'm very sure many of us here feel the same as well!  :Smug:

----------


## Merviso

hahaha... here it goes again...  :Grin: 

I have a tank with GEX, and I have a tank with ADA, I would say they have very different characteristics, and will be suitable for different people with different fauna and flora requirements, and of cos different styles of keeping fishes.  :Roll Eyes: 

Anyway, the competition between ADA & GEX is good for us all... It will help make our plants grow better...  :Smug:

----------


## EvolutionZ

IMO, i would say ADA is better in sense of ferts in the soil as i get much better plant growth and heathier plant using ADA compared to GeX. 
But, if you were talking about cloudiness.. GeX certainly is better, i recently rescape my 2ft tank with ADA, tank was cloudy for 2 days, and i recently rescaped my 1ft cube with GeX, well, after removing lots of plants and rocks, cloudiness was cleared within 1hour..

As for the grain size, i would vote for GeX red packing, i find that ADA's grain size is abit too big to hold plants nicely, the best would be GeX dark geen packing, but i find it being too powdery and i don't really like the look of the "dirty" looking grain size.
i would say GeX red packing would be perfect for me.

i would use ADA as the bottom substrate(for good plant growth) and GeX on top layer(for preventing major cloudiness), Purely GeX soil with root tablets, or ADA soil with perhaps things like active carbon or products that can clear cloudy water fast.

End of the day, i guess either ADA or GeX will have its pros and cons..

my 0.2cents worth.

----------


## cheetf

> IMO, i would say ADA is better in sense of ferts in the soil as i get much better plant growth and heathier plant using ADA compared to GeX.


From my own experience I tend to agree with the statement above. However I have found the ADA II to be much improved in terms of cloudiness and to be not too far from GEX.

Again these are my observations from using the products.

----------


## EvolutionZ

i think i ever heard before that ADA II have reduced ferts in them to improve the cloudiness caused.. not sure if its true though..

----------


## torque6

The thing is ada has known issues with cloudy water with the amazon series 1, but 2 is an improvement on this. In recent months with both ricky using his gex to grow glosso with numerous others and jervis in his ada cubes, both setups have done perfectly well in sustaining good growth.

I guess the real difference between these 2 are just "price" and the aquarist preferences on which soil he is happy working with.  :Smile: 

I have only worked with gex soil and it does clears up in less than 2hours in all my initial setup.

----------


## gemo82

Do the nutirents run out in substrates like Gex or ADA? What happens to the substrates when they "expire"? Do we need to use a gravel cleaner to clean the substrates in a planted tank? 

Can anyone provide any link to any step by step setting up of the substrates for noobs like me? Like can we use substrate with nutirents like Gex and top up with a thin layer of lapis sand to prevent cloudiness and yet provide nutrients to plant roots?

----------


## illumnae

yup gemo82, the nutrients do run out eventually in both Gex or ADA. usually when that happens, root inserts are put into the substrate to provide nutrients. Usually it's 1-3 years before the nutrients run out though.

please don't use a gravel cleaner with soil! only use it if you're using sand/gravel with no form of bast fertilizer. if you are, then you should just use a siphon to suck out any debris from the surface of the substrate instead.

as for setting up the substrate, the simplest way will just be to pour the Gex in and you're ready to plant. there's no need to top up with lapis as you won't have cloudiness issues with Gex  :Wink:  alternatively, if you want to use lapis sand, you can get base ferts (JBL is a popular brand) to put under the lapis

----------


## genes

Hi gemo82

Another point to take note of. ADA provides alternative to prolong the nutrient life of the soil by their Power Sand Special product which is laid at the bottom just like we do with base ferts. Alternatively, you could just use any other base ferts along with ADA or GEX to prolong their nutrient life.

----------


## illumnae

From my understanding, Power Sand Special doesn't work in the same way as base ferts which prolong nutrient life. rather, its purpose is to kickstart the under-substrate bacterial system which provides various benefits. this purpose can be easily and cheaply emulated using other materials

----------


## lorba

First of all, I am not really a ADA Supporter and I think I used much more lapis sand then anything else to date.

It could be Lapis Sand, Dennerle Sand, ADA, GEX or whatever substrate and sand. Whichever meets the buyer requirement, affordability, appeal, is a good product, to the buyer. If we are talking about doing things cheaply, there are even cheaper products than GEX, which some of us will agree that is slightly cheaper than ADA if you know where to get it. With proper care in good hands, I think one can achieve very good result using just lava rock chips/pumice at the bottom and lapis sand on top. It dont have to be ADA nor GEX.

When we set up our tanks, apart from buying acoording to depth-of-pocket, preferrence of brands, we should also have a good understanding of what we expect to achieve and the ability of the material used to achieve it.

GEX is a line of product targeted mainly at small/novelty aquarium with its food, substrate, pebbles, tanks and accessories. With the aquarium soil market (instead of sand) picking up these years, they learnt the mistakes made by others and join them selling soil. However, until today, they are still at the entry level in terms of providing a maintenance system for professional planted hobby. (This does not mean GEX soil is not good). That tells us where their direction and emphasis are.

On the other hand, ADA started out with planted hobby in mind and they had make their effort in researches to innovate as well as refine current practises. Everything they sell are meant for setting up and up-keeping a planted tank, from tools, hardware, fertilizers, substrate to food. They made it easy for users in the form of eg. Step 1/2/3 of liquid fert so that beginners will not screw it up and busy lao jiaos can save time doing better things. Studies even allow them to pack different size of power sand for different tank sizes (due to water pressure at different depth).

On whether ADA or GEX soil has more nutrients, I would say that both do not have enough to last over 3 months. You will still need whatever that is required (be it liquid or base ferts) to upkeep the plants lushly. No base fertilizers can last more then 1 yrs without losing its effectiveness. It could be even shorter when you have a lot of hungry and big eater plants.

Cloudiness. This is only an issue when you like to change plants every eg. 2-3 months. You pull things up, damage or crumbles the granule. With such short periods, I dont think plants really grow fully before they are torn down.

.
.
.

So, what to use?

Really, it depends on how much you are willing to spend and which concept you are more comfortable with.

----------


## aquanatix

I'm guessing at this point,everything here would seem very funny to a non aquarist. Imagine how so many people arguing about "soil" would look? :Grin: 

Somehow more crucial points seem to be unearthed with each reply that would only help people like myself think better. The more i read the more i learn. I'm still up for slightly more experimental/technical comparisons or tests though as i really believe that it would put a final stop to incessant comparisons between these major 2 brands in question. 

As i've said,i'm one of those that never got around using the ADA line of products. I initially went all out just to buy them after reading up more about it here. Back then ADA was *THE* standard when it came to planting. I'll be honest again,i of course immediately thought that i could automatically achieve what Amano has already accomplished because why?He's the "godfather" of the aquascaping hobby and nobody would refute that claim after seeing his tanks on various publications. I'm impressionable and eager,and i immediately thought... Hey,if Amano did it so well...he must've really known what he was talking about.When he comes out with products like ADA substrate,this must be *IT*! Somewhere along the train of thought,i went to hunt for ADA substrate. Unfortunately due to the fact that the planted hobby was beginning to grow popular,ADA substrates were sold out at C328 where i usually purchase my supplies. Gex was the brand the auntie recommended me with her saying(and i do quote exactly)try this brand,newly arrived...not bad and slightly cheaper then the ADA you were asking for. I was so eager to setup my tank i bought it there and then. It looked alike to the ADA and hey,it was also Japanese? Not sure if it was my subconscious telling me Japanese=Good or simply because the packaging looked professional...i bought it anyway and thus began my journey with GEX.

It was only after going deeper into the hobby that i started finding out more on different substrates. I never really did have the need for change as GEX was ok for my usage. But for someone who's say keeping Apistos? The difference in substrate would be important as i understand ADA gives a lower PH which in turn becomes crucial when it comes to Apistos. With this in mind,one point really stood out...Just buy what you need?Budget and various factors do play such an important part with purchases but research is still essential to every hobbyist. This would go on forever but for the better i guess. I'm still gonna be lurking around here just to read up more because extra knowledge never hurts? :Grin:

----------


## gemo82

The purpose of this thread is therefore beneficial in my opinion if it provides information for the readers to compare the 2 products in whatever is important to individual users. At the end of the day, what matters is not which brand is superior, but how and why are they better at certain parameters. This gives readers the information that is really valuable as to HOW THINGS WORK, not just which brand is good and use blindly, following the opinions of others which defeats the purpose of LEARNING about this hobby here at this forum. 

All in all, I believe experiences from users regarding which product achieves what results in their setups are important for a reader who is deciding to choose which product to use. However, since experiences from different users vary, and other parameters have to be observed for the results, I believe what is more important is information about how each product achieves its stated performance, so that readers understand more about this hobby and have the knowledge to choose or modify the usage of products to suit their own needs. 

For those who just want to achieve fantastic results without understanding, they might as well buy a tank set up for them by professionals and hire them to maintain the tank as well.  :Razz:  

Please continue to provide information and personal experiences of the 2 products stated in this thread.

Regards

----------


## benny

There were a lot of counter productive discussions in this thread previously and I've tidied it up. The essence of the discussion and all the key points remained after the distillation. The original thread is archived for future reference if necessary. Further attempts to divide the community or to create a politically charged environment will not be tolerated.

This forum is created so that hobbyists can share tips and ideas on how to better their skill of keeping planted tank and fishes, not to promote nor put down any commercial brands. Members are encouraged to share their opinion and experience, be it positive or negative, but refrain from mindless "brand supporting" and "brand bashing". More explicitly, *discuss, rejoin, but no "evangelising" and no "persecuting"*.

In addition, any further insinuating remarks with regards to my team and their moderating standards WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. *It will be a direct ban from Aquatic Quotient.* 

I believe we all have the ability to make choices and can have varied results. Let's all agree to accept differing experiences/opinions and enjoy the hobby together. 

Cheers,

----------


## williamng

Generally I find it very difficult to compare. Unless someone setup 2 tanks with different substrate yet similiar conditions and plant the same type of plants. Then record down all the observations and parameters just like we conduct experiment. With concrete data, we can then determine the better brand.

Personally, I prefer ADA based on personal experience. When I plant, I can feel the soil gripping my plants. I dont have the same feel for GEX. Having said that, that is based on feel...

----------


## dnsfpl

understand than gex soil will expire in app 2 years
how about those open and unused potion? will they expire too?
i left 1/2 a pack of gex light green substrate


btw just to share my noob experience, after rescaping my plants
i immediately put in my neons when the water is cloudy
amazing they survive but their "top" are fill with black particles
after weeks, the particles are finally gone  :Laughing:

----------


## benny

> Generally I find it very difficult to compare. Unless someone setup 2 tanks with different substrate yet similiar conditions and plant the same type of plants. Then record down all the observations and parameters just like we conduct experiment. With concrete data, we can then determine the better brand.


Very good point.

Otherwise, there are too many variable factors not mentioned and the small sample size under differing conditions discredit puts most of the comments in the previous posts.

Perhaps someone can spare 2 similar tanks and do an experiment!!!

Cheers,

----------


## williamng

Sometimes, it is rather difficult in terms of equipment and space. If I have the equipment, I dont mind.

----------


## Delwin

i do have one tank using Gex soil and the other using ADA Amazonia II.
Both tank are set up a few days apart. i found out that the Gex are eazier to plant plants. As for ADA, initially it is hard to make the plants stay on the soil. Gex clear in around three hours, and gex took one whole day to clear. the size of the ADA is hard to grip the root. but after two weeks or so, when i do some rescaping, i find that the root grip more firmly onto ADA than Gex. i never introduced any fertalizer into both of my tanks. i then noticed that the plants grow better on ADA than Gex.
Now for my two and a half tank, i put together two technology into use. ADA Amazonia II as base and Gex on top layer...
While planting, the Gex grip the plants well(the roots system will eventually seach for the nutitents rich ADA).
The Gex will clear faster as the ADA is not disturbed.
During maintenting, or rescaping, i will have almost immediate clear effect of the view of my creation :Grin: 
i like the out come of the two technology put together...covering each other short to perform the best :Grin: 
Cheers,
Delwin.

----------


## Panut

Very useful information!  :Well done:  Cheers  :Smile: 
Is it true that using Soil will cause the bottom of the tank(silicon) to have irremovable stain? i have experienced it before, and now my friend has experienced it.

----------


## Delwin

yap... even my tank with black silicon also have brown stain :Laughing:

----------


## Panut

Oh no. i Don't want the value of my tank to depreciate because of this  :Sad: 
Should i use denerle Quartz or ADA amazonia(II)?
Plants won't grow well if there are no nutrients in it? (denerle Quartz)

----------


## Delwin

can insert after market fertilzer mah :Grin:

----------


## illumnae

very interesting and creative use of both soils to get the best of both worlds delwin  :Smile:

----------


## williamng

To see which soil is better. Just look at the outcome at the aquascaping forum. See how good is the aquascaping of those using GEX and ADA then do a comparision. The "better" soil will definately make the plant grows very well. Data prove more than words.  :Jump for joy:

----------


## EvolutionZ

im still decideing to use GeX or ADA for my new set up..
ADA got better plant growth. but the cloudiness caused turned me of..
i tried the bottom ADA and top GeX method before.. when you want to do a rescape.., those plants with long roots will uproot all those ada soil(grey colour) from the bottom.. and ended up you have 2 colour of soil.gex being black and ada being grey.

----------


## StanChung

> To see which soil is better. Just look at the outcome at the aquascaping forum. See how good is the aquascaping of those using GEX and ADA then do a comparision. The "better" soil will definately make the plant grows very well. Data prove more than words.


ADA vs GEX? I don't have both as test but ADA works great for me. As a disclaimer, you need all the other stuff to help plants grow, not just the soil. Is this going to be like a Nikon vs Canon thing?  :Laughing:  Never ending for for sure.

William, wise words. If objective is instant clear water, then can use black quartz, if objective is to grow plants use baked/soil pellets. [simplistic explanation-don't read too much into it]

If objective is want both, then have to compromise on both. Delwin's method seems to work well for him.

Here's a pic of my tank, almost ready for IAPLC. 90&#37; ADA fert and substrate, you can't see the soil but it's there at the back  :Razz:

----------


## lorba

> i do have one tank using Gex soil and the other using ADA Amazonia II.
> Both tank are set up a few days apart. i found out that the Gex are eazier to plant plants. As for ADA, initially it is hard to make the plants stay on the soil.
> Delwin.


Hi Delwin,

i think the floating problem could be caused by the plant mass of the particular piece you have. Or you may not have inserted the plants deep enough.

For big specimen, consider remove big and old leaves so that it is less bouyant.

----------


## Jaws

This photo was taken when I was setting up the tank and taken within 1hr after filling the tank with water.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...0&d=1209740476

Is this cloudy? ADA soil... picture say a thousand words...

----------


## zyblack

It was mentioned that ADA Amazonian I will cause cloudiness if your tap water is alkaline in nature. So depending on where your tap water comes from, you may get different results since the pH of tap water is different from area to area in Singapore.

Amazonian II should have less cloudiness since they are made for alkaline water.

----------


## EvolutionZ

i do agree with that, ada when first set up, i do have totally crystal clear water. but after usage of 2months onwards.. even a slight rescape will cause cloudiness.. but gex is simply those debris..

guess my new scape will go for ADA II.

----------


## Panut

tried the ADA Amazonia II today. im surprised it doesn't cloud(maybe due to seasoned hands  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing: )

Anyway, it is a VAST improvement from Amazonia I. No regrets buying it. In fact, regret buying too little, should have bought more for a deeper substrate  :Grin:

----------


## EvolutionZ

magic,
how do you know its a VAST improvement when you just used it today?..
i had crystal clear water too when i set up my 2ft using ADA I...

----------


## Verminator

Question: Is ADA soil and GeX stuff commonly available outside s'pore? I hope so, because i havnt heard of such stuff around myself and i must say i dearly would like some when i start my new tank!

----------


## Panut

Because for amazonia I, i had cloudy water for the first 3 days  :Sad: 
and when i plant, becomes cloudy again. for this one, i planted and planted but the water remained clear. =)

----------


## EvolutionZ

magic,
really? guess i have no chioce but to try ADA II for my new scape.
thanks

picture of a 10mths old broken down ADA I soil..
looks like mud!

----------


## Verminator

How does the soil get like this?

Is it just neglect. For someone not used to seeing aquarium soil like this how is this possible. Does it get like this whilst having your aquarium full of water and fish? I'm getting the idea you have to replace ADA soil yearly then? otherwise it gets like this?

Some one care to fill in the gaps on my knowledge of this.

----------


## Verminator

Ahh so you've just emptied the tank and this is the gunky mess your left with at the bottom, soil with that little bit of water which is impossible to remove.

So its not because the soil is 'spent' so to say, and its perfectly fine to use again. Or will you replace it?

----------


## Panut

He has replaced it, with amazonia II. 
cheers

----------


## StanChung

> Ahh so you've just emptied the tank and this is the gunky mess your left with at the bottom, soil with that little bit of water which is impossible to remove.
> 
> So its not because the soil is 'spent' so to say, and its perfectly fine to use again. Or will you replace it?


Hi, 
It is said and I've seen with my own eyes and nose[ :Laughing: P], a well oxygenated substrate [via plant roots using powersand will not be smelly[rotten egg] if you poked your finger deep in the soil to smell. Ordinary sand+base substrate that's been setup for more than 2-3 months will.

Soil will degrade, and the answer is to top up. i've done more than 2 rescaping of soil tanks and it's a lot of work. removing the fine roots that may rot etc. Finishing up by doing a top up of new soil and gentle 'WIWO'-water in water out. Fresh water in one side and cloudy out the other.

----------


## EvolutionZ

hi guys.. just some simple comments on mine on ADA and GeX after using it and rescaping the tank using the above 2 soils.

first i'll say about ADA II.

pros : better plants grow.
water clear up faster than ADA I.
less floating junks like wood shreads.

Cons : cloudy problem improved? i don't think so. i got a major water cloudiniess after shifting my bog wood and only stirring up the top layer of the soil. water was so cloudy that i have to stop work for 2 hours before continueing.
cloudy water took 1 whole night to clear.
cloudy water forms even when the soil is slightly stirred at the top layer. the soil looks like as if its 1 year old although i only used it for less than 2 weeks.

thats about it.. i would say ADA I and ADA II not much difference. the only difference i can find is that ADA I's cloudy water took me 3 days to clear, while ADA II need just one whole night.

as for GeX....

pros : very little cloudy water.. or should i say dust water?(GeX 'dust' settle very very quickly)
after even a major rescape, tank was very cloudy.. but it all settled down within around a few hours.
very very few floating junks (e.g. wood shreads)

Cons : after a rescape, the soil will looks kinda dusty..
plant growth not as good compared to ADA II.

the above pros and cons are just based on my own expierence on using the 2 soil.. i would still choose GeX and insert root tablets for better growth. ADA soil simply get cloudy very easily.

my 2 cents. no offence to ADA supporters or GeX supporters.

----------


## StanChung

That's fair comment and something more than one person here agrees. To each his own.  :Smile: 
I do think this thread is already bordering on the repetitive.  :Rolling Eyes:

----------


## vitaroy

May i know how many packets of 8kg Gex soil is sufficient for 6x2ft tank base? Also must i add any base fertilizer to enhance the growth rate of stemmed plants for Gex soil?

Thanks!  :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

Probably 7-8 bags would be needed for a 6x2ft base. base fertilizer is up to you, but i have not used any in my 4x2x2 tank and the plants grow wonderfully. you may want to put something below your base to oxygenate it. as Stan has mentioned, it may have some benefits. however, additional nutrients are generally not needed.

----------


## EvolutionZ

anyway, just a notice... i find that ADA II cloudiness is even worst than ADA I. recently i just simply uproot some small amount of not really fully rooted Rotala sp and of course, that small part of the tank(just around a 5cm x 5cm patch)
uprooted some soil and i can see a whole lot of milky thingy(what ever you call that) rushed up. den it flow towards my filter outlet and soon, my whole tank was cloudy. i never did expect ADA soil to cause cloudiness so easily. i remembered when i up root the whole fully and deeply rooted of blxya japonica(spreed across the whole of my 2ft tank covered about 2x 1/2 ft of my tank.) when i rooted them, obviously my whole tank turn cloudy. but i can forgive that.. since i uproot a whole lot of blxya.
but this type round just a small patch of unrooted rotala and it cause my tank to be cloudy.
in my own opinion, i don't think ADA II is made to improve cloudiness. its more towards creating more cloudiness. 
i should have chose GeX soil, rescaped my 1 ft cube tank and cloudiness cleared within half an hour.

so just to tell you guys, if you have trouble with cloudiness during using ADA I, skip ADA II as to me and to what i see, ADA II is worst for cloudiness.

anyone of you guys have the same expierence with me?

Edit: well, the only good thing about ADA i would say is that the growth is very good. comparing growing Didiplis diandra in 3 soils, GeX, ADA II and Dazs soil. i got the best result in ADA and worst in Dazs.

----------


## vitaroy

> Probably 7-8 bags would be needed for a 6x2ft base. base fertilizer is up to you, but i have not used any in my 4x2x2 tank and the plants grow wonderfully. you may want to put something below your base to oxygenate it. as Stan has mentioned, it may have some benefits. however, additional nutrients are generally not needed.


Thanks for your information! :Jump for joy: 

Very informational and will buy those Gex Soil on coming weekend.

Cheers

----------


## AquaObsession

Been using ADA II in a small tank (1.5 feet only). No cloudiness at all, no matter how much I uproot.  :Sad:  Good plant growth as well.

I use ADA I before, but I always get greenish tint water, not with ADA II.

However, I am no involved in any kind of testing, just random observation.

so far, over my experience, the best I;ve used was Lapis sand with JBL Subtrate. water clears readily  :Smile: 

Cheers, Christophe

----------


## kennyseah17

i just bought the 2 kg to top up more subtrate but after pouring a little.. i realised i bought the bigger pellet size....looks abit weird against my previous small pellet gex...

decided to stop pouring in case I have more problems having to remove it later....anyone here mix the pallets ( big and small) ..

----------


## kennyseah17

decided to sell the 2kg gex light green ( but I opened it and poured i cup ( about 100gm ) into the tank only to realise its bigger then my previous subtrate.. 

interested please pm me..sell cheap.

----------


## Aquanoob

You can sell the remaining Gex green pack at the marketplace. Gex got 3 packaging, red, green and dark green. Red pack is suppose is to be shrimp-friendly, and the dark green pack is smaller grain than the light green pack.

----------


## hayabusa

good morning guys, i know this is an old thread but forgive me. recently i thought of rescaping my tank and was previously using project soil, i thought of getting a darker substrate so GEX and ADA popped into my mind and i started googling about the 2 products and therefore stumbled upon this thread. i enjoyed gaining so much information from page 1-8, i've never been a GEX or ADA user throughout my aquascapings and i want to give GEX a shot. the thing is that i'm still pretty unsure of which one to get, the dark or light green package? my tank is a 2fter and i thought to myself with such a small aquarium, maybe i should get smaller substrate to make it look "bigger" which is the dark green packaging but afraid if my flowrate would disturb it or my intake would suck it in.

i'm using a 1000L/p canister, and also would smaller substrates mean i would need to get more than usual? 

hit me back! 
regards  :Smile:

----------


## aquarius

Go for the bigger sized soil and if you're planting small plants likes glosso or HC, then use a little of the smaller sized one at the top layer for ease of planting.

----------


## aquarius

This tread is very old but it is Very Informative! Though i've never used soil for my setups before, from the feedback of my friend who bought Amazonia II, he says that his filter cloggs up very easily with mud-like debris in his cannister filter. He then realised that the mud-like debris is actually the black coating of the Amazonia II that "melts" off and ends up in his filter. And he used it for less than a yr! I've seen his tank before and the soil no longer has the black coating but each granule is light brown with rough sand-like texture. 

Since alot of people have use Amazonia I, Amazonia II and Gex soil for quite some time now, i would like to find out whether does anybody has this problem with the 3 mentioned soils and if yes, how long did it take before the 3 soils show such issues?

So far i think got about 1 or 2 persons here says that they had this issue not long after they used the Gex soil, though it was only a few granules. Hope to hear your feedbacks.

----------

