# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  automatic Fertilizer dosing pump

## neon

This thread may be placed under DIY/equipment thread, but just want to get feedback from all bro here . 

Has anyone used any fertilizer doser pump or any DIY fertilizer doser , exclude those dripping method ? 

As I am doing the EI method, and thinking if there is anyone has similar setup or DIY, ie put a bottle for 1 day dose - with all the mixed solution or powder , an small holes at the middle height of the bottle . An internal pump to pump water into the bottle with some timer to dose.

Cheers

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## solonavi

Doesn't sounds too difficult. But can we mix all the solution together? Chemical reaction?

JC

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## valice

Given that the compounds in the fertilisers are already in complex forms, I think they will probably need some kind of higher temperature to react... 

Else the chemicals would jolly well have reacted in the tank right? Just my opinion... Hmmm.... then it would abit like PMDD if we mix everything up into 1 solution right?

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## Fei Miao

Someone already did that, I saw it quite a while ago. I passed a diagram of that to a friend whose is quite a electrical/electronic genius to work on it for me..kekeke.. haven't come to me since, time to give him a call  :Grin:  think I lost the original diagram though :Evil:

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## solonavi

It'll be cool to see the diagram again. Keep us posted, ya.

Cheers
JC

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## Fei Miao

Yeah, I'll see the guy tonight, will try to dig up the file.  :Razz:

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## neon

Ya , would like to see the design.

Keep it coming !

Cheers

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## spinex

I'm using Eheim auto doser and mixing all the liquid fert together into the solution. I mix Lushgro, Seachem Flourish and KH2PO4. Maybe i will change to KNO3, TMG, KH2PO4 when i finish my solution. Anyway, far my shrimps and fish are okay.

For your info, Eheim doser can be set to dose max of 8 times within 24 hrs. Each time is 1ml of liquid dosing so it's a max of 8ml per day. I used this to dose according to EI (Estimative Index) partly because i'm lazy to dose every now and then and also this mean it's a consistent dosing spread out evenly within a day.

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## solonavi

Hi spinex, is the dosage of 1ml fitted? Can we change it? Wat's the indicative cost for an eheim doser?

Cheers
JC

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## loupgarou

I bought the eheim doser from NA at $70, find it a pain to setup the timer each time the battery dies, I always wanted to hook it up to a dc adapter but too lazy to go down to sim lim tower to get the parts..

if you're interested in it, let me know anyway.

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## spinex

> Hi spinex, is the dosage of 1ml fitted? Can we change it? Wat's the indicative cost for an eheim doser?
> 
> Cheers
> JC


Yes i bought at $70 also. 1ml is fixed can't change that. So it's a max of 8ml per day. So if you want to dose according to EI you have to make calculation and mix your own solution. 

I do my calculation using the Chuck calculator based on my tank's need.

So if your tank is huge 1ml of your solution need to be concentrated if you want the auto doser to last 1 week.

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## spinex

> I bought the eheim doser from NA at $70, find it a pain to setup the timer each time the battery dies, I always wanted to hook it up to a dc adapter but too lazy to go down to sim lim tower to get the parts..
> 
> if you're interested in it, let me know anyway.


Seem like a good idea to hook up to a adaptor. 

How long does the 2 x AA battery usually last ? I have been using it for only 1 week.

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## solonavi

Thanks for the advise. Where can we get the raw chemical to mix?

Thanks
JC

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## spinex

> Thanks for the advise. Where can we get the raw chemical to mix?
> 
> Thanks
> JC


I get from NA. KNO3 and KH2PO4. You can also use those solution (ready made) fertilizer but they won't be so concentrate (esp for your large tank).

Anyway for such a big tank of yours getting powder form of fert is more economical for you.

Of course you still need micro fert. Tropica Master Grow, EasyLife, Seachem Flourish, Lushgro micro are considered micro.

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## Ibn

Using a couple of APT peristaltic pumps right now. One for the macros and one for the micros (CMS+B). Dosing EI and instead of doing macros one day and micros the next, I just have it set to dump 1/2 of the required amount on a daily basis. 

Amount that this pump can dose is much higher than the Eheim.

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## solonavi

Any DIY mechanical expert want to try this? Saw it in APC.


http://www.home.zonnet.nl/rsetteur/a...seer_spuit.htm

JC

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## spinex

Saw this before. I will say not really practical esp for big tank because if the syringe is larger size it won't work. Anyway how many days can it last when it's 10 or 20ml ?  :Grin:  

Time and effort spend to DIY buy Eheim doser at $70 better.

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## solonavi

Think its suppose to draw the liquiid from a container. Notice the two check valve in opposite direction. Anyway, its for those DIY guru to play with.

Cheers
JC

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## spinex

> Think its suppose to draw the liquiid from a container. Notice the two check valve in opposite direction. Anyway, its for those DIY guru to play with.
> 
> Cheers
> JC


I read this before. The liquid fertiliser is in the syringe definitely not drawing from a container. Because it using the timer as the mechanical part to squeeze the syringe bit by bit. If the syringe is big, the timer is not able to push it. Anyway those who have tried it say the output amount is not consistent everytime

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## ruud

> Think its suppose to draw the liquiid from a container. Notice the two check valve in opposite direction. 
> Cheers
> JC


Thats right





> If the syringe is big, the timer is not able to push it.


Y have try bigger syringe (20 ML) and its works fine.
There are more on this site and all they works!!

Sorry for the English, i can read but no write  :Exasperated:

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## Ibn

Didn't want to bother with such a short supply of ferts and always refilling. At it's current settings my macro pump doses 150 mL of solution daily and the micro pump doses 10 mL of solution daily (both controlled by their own individual timers). You can basically use any size reservoir that you want. I usually refill the bottle every 10 days or so. You can stretch this time out even longer with a larger reservoir, but I didn't want to clutter the space underneath the stand.

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## solonavi

Hi Eric, mind me asking what type of pumps u using and what is their flowrate? U configured it using a timer running for how long per day?

Thanks
JC

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## spinex

> Y have try bigger syringe (20 ML) and its works fine.
> There are more on this site and all they works!!
> 
> Sorry for the English, i can read but no write


Welcome Ruud. Don't worry about your english we aren't better. As long we we understand what you mean it's good enough  :Grin:

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## ruud

> Welcome Ruud. Don't worry about your english we aren't better. As long we we understand what you mean it's good enough


Thanks bigsmile,

What I wonder myself why not the concentration makes stronger this way you has to dose less per day and you can work with a smaller needle/syringe

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## Ibn

Not a problem, JC. I'm using APT peristaltic pumps right now. 

http://www.aptinstruments.com/Mercha...ory_Code=SP100

I have them with the 30 rpm motors and 1.6mm ID, which supposedly gives me 1.5mL of flowrate per minute. I did a test to make sure that was the case and it's actually faster than that. For the macros I tested them to see how long it took for the pump to dump 150mL of solution into the tank and it came out to be an hour or so. On the micros side, I only needed 10mL of solution, so the pump for that shut off sooner than that. They're only on for about 4 minutes. 

Both sets of pumps are on their own dedicated timers and you can actually just pick up different size tubing to vary the flowrate. One of my buddies has his configured for top off also.

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## neon

> Not a problem, JC. I'm using APT peristaltic pumps right now. 
> 
> http://www.aptinstruments.com/Mercha...ory_Code=SP100
> 
> I have them with the 30 rpm motors and 1.6mm ID, which supposedly gives me 1.5mL of flowrate per minute. I did a test to make sure that was the case and it's actually faster than that. For the macros I tested them to see how long it took for the pump to dump 150mL of solution into the tank and it came out to be an hour or so. On the micros side, I only needed 10mL of solution, so the pump for that shut off sooner than that. They're only on for about 4 minutes. 
> 
> Both sets of pumps are on their own dedicated timers and you can actually just pick up different size tubing to vary the flowrate. One of my buddies has his configured for top off also.


Hi ,

Few questions need to ask you :
a) Do you DIY your casing for the bare bone pump, or purchase the complete with casing ?
b) what you recommend the type of tubing for fert dosing , which withstand NPK and micro ?
c) what the number of hours run before the tubing will be worn out ?
d) is there a shelf life for the tubing ?
e) how the MTBF for the pump ?
f) is there any height issue where the pump must be placed if fix below the tank ?
g) how do you ensure the solution is mixed properly before each dose as the fert sediment will sentle at the bottom over time ?

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## Ibn

> Hi ,
> 
> Few questions need to ask you :
> a) Do you DIY your casing for the bare bone pump, or purchase the complete with casing ?
> b) what you recommend the type of tubing for fert dosing , which withstand NPK and micro ?
> c) what the number of hours run before the tubing will be worn out ?
> d) is there a shelf life for the tubing ?
> e) how the MTBF for the pump ?
> f) is there any height issue where the pump must be placed if fix below the tank ?
> g) how do you ensure the solution is mixed properly before each dose as the fert sediment will sentle at the bottom over time ?


Sorry, but just got back so here are some answers to your questions. 

a) I just use the barebones OEM pumps. The casing isn't needed, unless you want to make it look nice. I just use a screw to attach the pump onto the inside of my stand.
b) I got some industrial grade norprene from the mfg. where I got the pumps from (APT)
c) Not quite sure. A friend of mine has been using his for slightly more than 2 years without any problems.
d) Not that I'm aware of. They're cheap to replace even if it breaks down after awhile.
e) MTBF?
f) No height issue that I've seen. My pump is about 4 feet (1.2m) from the top of the tank, where it's dosed.
g) You can keep the solution suspended if you used add another hole of the cap and use an aerator inside. I don't think it matters, but it helps if you're wondering.

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## neon

> Sorry, but just got back so here are some answers to your questions. 
> 
> a) I just use the barebones OEM pumps. The casing isn't needed, unless you want to make it look nice. I just use a screw to attach the pump onto the inside of my stand.
> b) I got some industrial grade norprene from the mfg. where I got the pumps from (APT)
> c) Not quite sure. A friend of mine has been using his for slightly more than 2 years without any problems.
> d) Not that I'm aware of. They're cheap to replace even if it breaks down after awhile.
> e) MTBF?
> f) No height issue that I've seen. My pump is about 4 feet (1.2m) from the top of the tank, where it's dosed.
> g) You can keep the solution suspended if you used add another hole of the cap and use an aerator inside. I don't think it matters, but it helps if you're wondering.


Really tempted to get this type of pump which I have been eyeing for over a year. 

Also thinking of DIY with the following concept , not pretty but may be practical :
a) get container with screw lid , drill 1 hole on the lid for hose . Put the container on top of the tank bracing
b) drill another hole at the side and silicon a short hose at this hole. Position this hole close to the lid.
c) put a small pump into the tank and connect the output from this pump with a hose and connect to the container lid and silicon. 
d) put all the require dosage of fert into the container , be it powder or liquid type.
f) connect the pump to a timer. Once the pump is power on, the water will pump into the container and the water will mix with the fert and water will overflow thru the 2nd hole back to the tank. Let the pump run for 10mins it should have mixed most the fert and back to the tank. Water will remain in the container for the next dosing simply add the fert into the container again.

Disadvantage :
1) one dose 
2) may not pretty
3) non consecutive dose due to limited container during holiday trip

May be useful :
1) one for micro and one for NPK. Just throw in the fert into the container every two days. No need to manual mix and throw into the tank.
2) may be useful for only one dose during holiday trip

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## Ibn

Sounds like it could work, but it's a lot of trouble for single doses. It'll be easier to just dry dose the tank and the micros via solution on a daily basis. 

The reason why I picked up those pumps was so that it would dose for me on a daily basis instead of me having to touch it. The container for the macros is enough to hold a 10 day supply and the container for the micros has enough solution to last at least a month (doses 10mL daily and the container has about 1000mL of solution). I just mix the macros every week and I'm set (a friend of mine uses 2 gallon containers so he doesn't have to mix ferts for a long time).

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## solonavi

But if u premixed a big quantity of macro, wun u get a lot of residue sitting on the bottom of the bottle?

JC

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## Ibn

Nope, not at all actually. There's very little that settles out of solution. For larger containers then I would go with having a powerhead to keep it mixed, but otherwise, you don't need it.

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## solonavi

I've got an Aqua-medic dosing pump to dose my macros and is thinking of getting the eheim auto doser for my micro unless I can find a bargain dosing pump again.

Thus will like to check, how much solution can the eheim auto doser hold?

Thanks
JC

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## Ibn

The reservoir on the Eheim liquidoser is rather small. The reservoir will hold 80 mL of solution. For micros, it'll work since you're not dumping the same amount of micros into the tank as you would macros.

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## spinex

> I've got an Aqua-medic dosing pump to dose my macros and is thinking of getting the eheim auto doser for my micro unless I can find a bargain dosing pump again.
> 
> Thus will like to check, how much solution can the eheim auto doser hold?
> 
> Thanks
> JC


I have this Eheim doser. 70-75ml max for the container.

How much did u pay for the Aqua Medic dosing ?

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## solonavi

I got a re-used unit for >$100. 

Cheers
JC

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## ah^siao

if there are more people interested y not we get a bulk order for the aqua medic doing unit? i'm interested in getting 2 units too.one for micros and one for macros

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## crandf

Why not a normal small 150L/H pump? Include a valve, hook it up to a digital timer, calibrate its pump volume in 1 min and do the neccesary calculations for the fert reservoir. I'm planning to use my 81L spare tank as the fert reservoir. I haven't yet tested how slowly I can make the pump flow while still remaining consistent, but 50L/H should be possible, and with that volume,the 81L fert reservoir should last 14 weeks! Even if the fert dosing frequency is upped to 8 times daily, the reservoir should still last at least a week. Comments?

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## solonavi

Even a 150L/hr pump running for only 1 min, it will be still be 2.5L which is kinda alot for nutrients dosing.

JC

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## crandf

Dilute your fert reservoir, increase the pumping height, tighten the valve, use narrow tubing, I'm sure you could have thought of those too. Oh, and make sure the output mouth is above the water level of the tank. Main thing I dun like is the cost of a digital timer considering the wattage it is used for. 

Actually, considering how accurate water clocks can get, if we do a electricity-less dripwise doser using airline tubes and plastic air valves dripping constantly at say 10 drops per minute, the total volume water dripped is only 2.52L per week assuming 40 drops=1ml. But then the fert may crystallize and block the airline opening, so we would have to dangle the tube under the water surface. Counting the fertilization rate into the tank would then entail a mechanism pretty much like the CO2 bubble counter in reverse, but requiring at least a 2.5L container.

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## solonavi

If u plan to dilute such a big amount, maybe its better to consider doing it with top-up (due to evaporation).

I've tried drip methods during my marine days, imho, its just not reliable enough cos the pressure will reduce as the water level drop in the container but is a cheap alternative method.

Cheers
JC

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