# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  A spanner in the works

## timebomb

Hi, folks,

Someone told me that there was a new moss called 
Mini Taiwan Moss in the local aquaria scene. He gave 
me the name of the fish shop so I went and checked it 
out yesterday. The shop is familiar to most planted tank 
hobbyists - Nature Aquarium along Thomson Road. 

When I saw the display tank, my first impression was 
that it was very beautiful. Although the moss looks stringy, 
Chan (the boss) did a great job in the presentation. There 
was only one plant in the tank, the moss. Yet it was so 
beautiful. I asked and Chan said it's Singapore Moss but 
he also said his supplier likes to call it Mini Taiwan Moss. 
Chan was very generous and he allowed me to take these 
pictures.

Here's a picture of the tank:


Here's another one from a different angle:


Here's a close up:


Some of you may doubt that the moss is truly Singapore 
Moss but Chan is pretty sure of this. He sells them in 
emersed form and he said that when he started growing 
them, this is how it looked:


I have the Singapore Moss in my tanks too but I can't 
grow them as well as Chan does. However, the Moss in 
my tanks exhibit the same kind of stringy look. Here's a 
picture of my Singapore Moss:


The reason for the subject heading (A spanner in the works) 
is that many hobbyists have said the Singapore Moss looks 
similar to the Christmas when grown submersed. It's 
supposed to exhibit triangular fronds but as you can see 
from the above pictures, there are no triangles. Chan said 
his Singapore Moss comes from Malaysia. Could there be a 
Malaysian Moss, I wonder?

Loh K L

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## RonWill

*That's it! I've had enough!*... I can barely contain the temptation from the previous round of mossy talk and now, you're teasing again. I'm gonna go dig me some 'Singapore Moss' and grow it, even if it's just to see if everything become as 'flowy' as NA's setup (very inspirational)

Kwek Leong, did you ask Chan how long it took to get to that stage?

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## shortman

Ronnie,

I have it in at home tie on a wood trying to grow them emerse.
Will pass you the whole piece and with you secret recipe it should grow very fast.  :Cool:  

BTW, I get it very cheap from serangoon.

Best Regards

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## hwchoy

Possibly it is temperature related, if it is TRULY our Singapore moss. The original collection from Ben (subzero) was grown by me in a very cold water tank (in the office, water at 20°C) and at home (water at 29°C). In the office it grew just like the christmas moss, and I grew it side-by-side with a mesh of actual christmas moss (from Gen-X). The one at home grew poorly and resembled somewhat that in the picture, all stringy and messy.

But yes, Chan's presentation is great. As we all know, every woman is beautiful, we just have to get her the right hair-do and make-up.  :Laughing:

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## FC

Real nice, Kwek Leong.

The tank setup reflects the characters of Chan - non-aggressive, simple, down-to-earth, non-fancy, maintenance-free... Ahhhh! the last one does not apply to him.  :Laughing:

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## RonWill

> I have it in at home tie on a wood trying to grow them emerse.
> Will pass you the whole piece and with you secret recipe it should grow very fast.


Kho, bring it along next week (not tomorrow, ya) and I'll see how to get it done. Is it a huge piece of wood or will it fit into a plastic tank?

When we meet up again, I should have some emersed 'Flat Moss' (sphagnum?) to show you... it's interesting stuff :wink:

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## stormhawk

KL, I got the same results like you. The Singapore Moss I bought from PetMart is growing pretty well but doesn't exhibit the triangular fronds that its supposed to. I've trimmed it just once and it grew back to the same exact size visually within 2 weeks. Pretty odd moss. Ugly looking to me but cheap enough for a simple set-up. Oddly, I have Christmas moss growing in my tanks (although not as nicely) from the first time I visited your home and took back the nothos. 

The narrow-leaf java fern you gave me has grown very well in the current from my canister's spray-tube. Even gave me some daughter plants which I will harvest tomorrow and re-tie on a nice piece of driftwood I recently acquired.  :Smile: 

Freddy, will be passing you some of the moss when we next meet up. I think I got enough for a small patch. Going to give them a haircut tomorrow as I rescape my main tank. :wink:

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## Green Baron

It was my visit to Nature Aquarium about 8 months back that started me on moss. I remember when I first saw the small Christmas moss tank and the 2ft 'Taiwan' Moss thank, I told my self I want to have such a tank !

Chan has been growing what he call 'Taiwan' moss in the 2 ft tanks for quite some time. I think he recently rescaped that tank but he moss in it is still NA's 'Taiwan' moss. We found out later that this NA 'Taiwan' moss is what we now call Singapore Moss. The moss in that tank has always been very stringy. I have no idea why. I bought some of his 'Taiwan' moss some time back and the moss in my tank are triangular like Chritmass moss ! 

This photo shows the moss after I tied it to a drift wood in Dec 2003 :


After a month, the moss started to have triangular fronds :


2 months later, this is how it looks :

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## strung_0ut

Hi everybody
That is a pretty set up. I've always wanted to grow a moss carpet, I wonder how he does it? 
Here's my singapore moss, its breaking out, with a bunch of capsules, sorry about the pictures... What should I do now? I have mosses all seperated in that tank and I don't want it all mixing up. My fronds grow irregular triangular...




you can see the capsules, although very blurry, kind of bronze color


Regards,
Dennis  :Smile:

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## Green Baron

> Hi everybody
> That is a pretty set up. I've always wanted to grow a moss carpet, I wonder how he does it?


Dennis,
Chan ties the moss onto small pieces of wire mesh and then lays them flat on the gravels. It takes about 3 to 4 months for them to grow into a thick moss carpet.

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## RonWill

Dennis, I'm not sure whether it's an image or url you're try to link and did thought of creating an album for you but it's better for the individual members to create and housekeep their own.

For the moss carpet, I've contemplated rigging one too but it's a strange thing with killie-keepers... we always seem to run out of tank space!

As Gan pointed out, mosses are tied to laid meshes and do note that these are made from non-corrosive stainless steel. Alternatively, I suspect nylon meshes will work but you'll need to find a way to keep it down. How about 'egg crates'??

Does anyone know of a source where I can buy the meshes in larger pieces?

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## timebomb

Choy, Gan,

So far, both of you are the only 2 persons I know who grow 
triangular fronds from Singapore Moss. I would suggest you 
give me some samples and I'll let the professor confirm if yours 
are truly Singapore Moss. It happens to all of us; we have so 
many mosses in our tanks we get them mixed up sometimes.

I would like to think the Singapore Moss, when grown submersed, 
produces a unique look. Chan has showed us how beautiful that 
look can be. 

Loh K L

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## RonWill

> So far, both of you are the only 2 persons I know who grow triangular fronds from Singapore Moss


Kwek Leong, so you're saying that the SGM grows straight fronds, not triangular, and growth pattern is not influenced by conditions?




> Chan has showed us how beautiful that


I can't seem to shake off the impression of torrential waters flowing swiftly over a fallen tree... powerful yet serene.

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## timebomb

> [Kwek Leong, so you're saying that the SGM 
> grows straight fronds, not triangular, and growth pattern is not 
> influenced by conditions?


Growth conditions is definitely a factor but I'm puzzled that 
the Singapore Moss in Chan's tank looks so different from
the pictures Gan posted. I've always thought mine looks
different from Gan's because he's growing them better. But
those in Chan's tank are obviously growing very well and 
yet, they don't have triangular fronds. 

In emersed form, it's very difficult to tell Christmas and 
Singapore apart. We've always thought the same applies
when they are grown submersed. But seems like Chan has
proven this to be wrong.

Loh K L

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## hwchoy

well actually we are not quite sure what Chan has is Singapore moss right? The moss I had came from Ben who collected it. Unlike timebomb I have very few moss because none would grow for me. The only moss I have ever purchased is Christmas moss from Gen-X, and those Singapore moss given to me by Ben.

For that matter, I had both growth from from the same bunch of moss so growing condition (esp temperature) definitely has a major impact.

Unfortunately I no longer have the mosses. That moss I gave you, KL, when we met the first time during the AQ old man contest outside Nature, came from that original Singapore moss collection.

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## kadios

Hi Ron!

Are you referring to those stainless steel meshes or plastic ones? If it is the former, you can get it at those hardware stores along "kek sheng kyo" (translation in Hokkien is frozen bridge", situated opposite the Old Thieves Market near Sim Lim Tower area. It is cheaper there. Tell the storekeeper you need it for aquarium uses and he will show you the right stuff.

Cheers!

Kar Hwee

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## carlfsk

> Hi Ron!
> 
> Are you referring to those stainless steel meshes or plastic ones? If it is the former, you can get it at those hardware stores along "kek sheng kyo" (translation in Hokkien is frozen bridge", situated opposite the Old Thieves Market near Sim Lim Tower area. It is cheaper there. Tell the storekeeper you need it for aquarium uses and he will show you the right stuff.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Kar Hwee


To add on, one of the shop that is selling the wire mesh is facing the main road. it was the stretch of shop houses stretching from the Kelantan Rd to Kelantan Lane. It sell all sorts of meshes, from plastic to metal. 

Don't forget to try the laksa there!

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## Green Baron

> Choy, Gan,
> 
> So far, both of you are the only 2 persons I know who grow 
> triangular fronds from Singapore Moss. I would suggest you 
> give me some samples and I'll let the professor confirm if yours 
> are truly Singapore Moss. It happens to all of us; we have so 
> many mosses in our tanks we get them mixed up sometimes.


KL,
The prof has already ID my moss during our 2nd meeting and confirmed it to be Singapore Moss. Sometime back I transferred some of this moss to another tank with higher bioload and base fert and within 2 months they all become stringy. 

Do you remember your Wild Singapore Moss post where you showed wild submersed form of Singapore Moss with triangular fronds ? Ben gave me some of those moss and again they become stringy when I put them in the same tank. I think it has to do with water conditions though we are not sue what is the main contributing factor. 

I suggest we do an experiment. Let's buy some of Chan's moss next week and try growing them under different conditions in our tanks and compare notes in 2 months time. Anybody want to participate in this experiment ?

Anyway, I will get the prof to ID it again just to be sure. Do you know if the Prof is back ? I have a few other mosses for him to ID.

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## zmzfam

> I suggest we do an experiment. Let's buy some of Chan's moss next week and try growing them under different conditions in our tanks and compare notes in 2 months time. Anybody want to participate in this experiment ?


Well, I'm game. What are the conditions that we should report on?

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## Green Baron

We can grow them in our existing tank (must not have SAE or Yamato) and/or in a low light low bioload tank.

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## victri

> Choy, Gan,
> 
> So far, both of you are the only 2 persons I know who grow 
> triangular fronds from Singapore Moss. I would suggest you 
> give me some samples and I'll let the professor confirm if yours 
> are truly Singapore Moss. It happens to all of us; we have so 
> many mosses in our tanks we get them mixed up sometimes.
> 
> I would like to think the Singapore Moss, when grown submersed, 
> ...


I remember when I bought some Java moss from Chan 1-2 years back, I noticed a few tiny fronds that looked different. Well I removed them and grew them out separately. Now I have quite a lot of it. I believe that what I have is Singapore moss. When I saw that tank of Chan's and how differently it grows, it's really puzzling!  :Question:  

Here are some photos:


http://www.victri.net/temp/moss01.jpg


http://www.victri.net/temp/moss02.jpg

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