# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  Anyone using ISTA Max Mix CO2 reactor??

## seanang168

The instructions say to overturn the reactor to remove the air. But within 2 hours, my reactor becomes half filled with CO2 again. I overturn again and later the same thing occurs.

Now I just use it as it is, with the CO2 column varying beween one third to half filled of the container while the rest is water. It seems to be still functioning and pumping the CO2 water into the tank.

Is my setup ok? What is your experience in using this reactor?

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## gemo82

What is the input rate of your CO2 supply? As in, how many bubbles per second? And how big is your tank? 

Sometimes, the air column is not just CO2, but a mixture of it and air from your filter. It could be due to air being sucked into your filter from your water intake, especially if you are using surface skimmer and it is not adjusted properly. You can check this by emptying your reactor when the CO2 supply is off, then wait for 2 hours to see if the air column builds up. If it does, then the column of air in the reactor is coming from somewhere else. 

If the column of air in the reactor is not purely CO2, then you can expect the dissolved CO2 concentration will not be as high as it could be.

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## tcampbell

Actually I helped with the production design/testing of the Mix Max designs. 
I would say the problem you are having is too slow of a flow rate through the mix max and or too high of a bubble rate.

The Mix Max is very efficient and the bubble rate can be a lot less than what is necesssary through a glass diffuser. As well, if the flow rate of the canister or pump hooked up to the mix max is too slow (usually less than 300l/hr - example Eden 501 filter) then the problem you mentioned will occur. Also if the flow rate is too high, then the co2 will simply be pushed through the mix max befoe being disolved. 
There are 2 designs, the small/Medium size and the large size. Small medium used for tanks 2 feet in size or less with a flow rate of ABOVE 300l/hr, and the large for tanks larger than that.

The turning over of the Mix max is only for the initial setup or after the filter has been disconnected for cleaning. In most cases it is not necessary as the Mix Max will naturally push the air out of the Mix Max after 24 hours, but it will prevent the extra noise and reduced diffusion rate for Co2 in that 24 hour period if you can turn the Mix Max upside down while running to quickly displace the air in the Mix Max.

Once the Mix Max is hooked up, it is basically run and forget about it. If used with an inital tank the Co2 bubble rate has to be adjusted as the plant mass increases ofcourse, but other than that there is nothing to it.

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## sword28

Hi tcampbell,

I am using one too.
is the bottom blade supposed to be rotating as well?
mine is not rotating and i read from that a few people also encounter the same problem.
One of them suggested to take it out and sand it, which i did.
indeed the bottom blade is a bit tight fitting resulting it not able to spin well.
after sanding it, now it is spinning.

by the way, the flow rate from my canister is quite high, so i don't think so it is the flow rate issue.

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## seanang168

Hi 

I believed my max mix is medium size. My tank is 3 ft 40 gallon. The max mix only starts to behave in this manner when I connected 2 bottles of DIY CO2 instead of 1. The bubble count increased from 1 bubble every 2 seconds to 4 bubbles every 1 sec.

My Max Mix is powered by a powerhead inside the tank while I use the Max Mix externally. I am not so such the rating of this powerhead but it is considered quite a big one. 

It appears to me that the Max Mix is still serving its function. So if it is ok for the column in it to be about half to 2 third filled with water, I guess I will not invert it anymore? I am always scared when I invert it for fear of tubings coming loose ha.

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## tcampbell

No, the bottom blade is not supposed to rotate. It is there to stabalize the center column and prevent noise. In the originally design there was a sponge there to do so but it resulted in clogging and extra maintainance that people did not do, thus reducing the efficinecy of the Mix Max.

Only all the tanks I have tested it on, there has not been the problems you mentioned unless the flow rate was too low or the bubble rate was extremely high, and the Mix Max was thus not able to disolve the Co2 fast enough. Are you using the large size?




> Hi tcampbell,
> 
> I am using one too.
> is the bottom blade supposed to be rotating as well?
> mine is not rotating and i read from that a few people also encounter the same problem.
> One of them suggested to take it out and sand it, which i did.
> indeed the bottom blade is a bit tight fitting resulting it not able to spin well.
> after sanding it, now it is spinning.
> 
> by the way, the flow rate from my canister is quite high, so i don't think so it is the flow rate issue.

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## tcampbell

I think for a 3 foot tank you would find the larger size works for the bubble rate you have. Only my 3 foot tank I have a bubble rate at about 6 bubbles per second, being powered by a Tetra Ex Power 1200 filter and I never have more than 1/2 Cm of C02 at the top of the Mix Max. The more Co2 there, the louder you will find the mix max.

After servicing my filter I will find for the first hour or so the Mix Max will be more than 1/2 filled with air, thouh after about 1 hour it is 2/3 filled with water and by the end of the day it is back to it's normal running method (1/2 cm of CO2 at the top). I as well do not like to invert the Mix Max as the way I have it hooked up it is rather difficult to do so and there is the fear of the hoses coming lose.

I have not had to service the Mix Max in over 1 1/2 years. 

When I ran the Medium size Mix Max on the same tank with the same bubble rate I was getting similiar problems to yous, too much noise, half filled with Co2, though the Co rate in the tank was fine. I am sure the up grade to the large one will be more suitable for your bubble rate as well as your tank size.




> Hi 
> 
> I believed my max mix is medium size. My tank is 3 ft 40 gallon. The max mix only starts to behave in this manner when I connected 2 bottles of DIY CO2 instead of 1. The bubble count increased from 1 bubble every 2 seconds to 4 bubbles every 1 sec.
> 
> My Max Mix is powered by a powerhead inside the tank while I use the Max Mix externally. I am not so such the rating of this powerhead but it is considered quite a big one. 
> 
> It appears to me that the Max Mix is still serving its function. So if it is ok for the column in it to be about half to 2 third filled with water, I guess I will not invert it anymore? I am always scared when I invert it for fear of tubings coming loose ha.

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## seanang168

Hi tcampbell

thank you for the advice I think I will stick to this medium reactor as I do not want to spend more money to get a large one. I am ok with having additional noise as my fan and and powerheads already seemed to drown the noise from Max Mix!

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## sword28

> No, the bottom blade is not supposed to rotate. It is there to stabalize the center column and prevent noise. In the originally design there was a sponge there to do so but it resulted in clogging and extra maintainance that people did not do, thus reducing the efficinecy of the Mix Max.
> 
> Only all the tanks I have tested it on, there has not been the problems you mentioned unless the flow rate was too low or the bubble rate was extremely high, and the Mix Max was thus not able to disolve the Co2 fast enough. Are you using the large size?


Hi,

can you elaborate more on "stablishing" the center column?
as for noise issue, i did not face noise issue either with or without the bottom blade rotating.

any problem if the bottom blade is rotating?
i did not know that it is not meant to be rotating and now i have made it rotate  :Grin:

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## tcampbell

> Hi,
> 
> can you elaborate more on "stablishing" the center column?
> as for noise issue, i did not face noise issue either with or without the bottom blade rotating.
> 
> any problem if the bottom blade is rotating?
> i did not know that it is not meant to be rotating and now i have made it rotate


I see no problem with it rotating, though that wasn't the original design. If it is working for you, that is great. When the bottom blade was removed the center column was moved with water flow inside the mix max. The bottom "Blade" held it in place with the groves at the bottom to allow flow. 

If you don't notice extra noise, that is good.

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## sword28

> I see no problem with it rotating, though that wasn't the original design. If it is working for you, that is great. When the bottom blade was removed the center column was moved with water flow inside the mix max. The bottom "Blade" held it in place with the groves at the bottom to allow flow. 
> 
> If you don't notice extra noise, that is good.


 
great! thanks for your reply and support.
it is always good to hear from the designer and maker of the poduct.

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## mikeang

hi,

the amount of air in my ISTA reactor kept going back to 1/2 the cylinder overnight. My CO2 is just set to 5bps. Can't be air lock as well as i cleaned and primed my 2224.

Any idea?

Thank you.

Michael

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## seanang168

Hi Tcampbell

there are two sets of propellors at the top. Is the design meant for both to rotate? Occasionally, the lower second set of propellors would stop moving which I believed is due to the presence of some small particles getting stuck on the propellor. However the top one would still be rotating. 

So should both set of propellors meant to rotate? Quite problematic to get the lower second set of propellor to rotate again when it get stuck.

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## sword28

> Hi Tcampbell
> 
> there are two sets of propellors at the top. Is the design meant for both to rotate? Occasionally, the lower second set of propellors would stop moving which I believed is due to the presence of some small particles getting stuck on the propellor. However the top one would still be rotating. 
> 
> So should both set of propellors meant to rotate? Quite problematic to get the lower second set of propellor to rotate again when it get stuck.


Actually I am not referring to the 2 sets of propellers on top.
Yes both of them should be rotating.
I am referring to the bottom one, just before the outlet.
that bottom propeller is as-designed to be tight fit and it is not rotating when I first use it.
so I took it out and sand it and now all 3 propellers are rotating. (top2, bottom 1)  :Grin:

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## Desewer

would like to share my experience. i'm using an eheim ecco pro 2034 about 600lph rated. i found that my co2 were best dissolved when i used the ista maxmix reactor. it was small and took up very little space. due to its size i also was able to ensure that very little flowrate was lost from the filter through the reactor and into the tank. comparatively, my na external reactor caused a drop in flow rate due to its design and size.

i've stopped using my ista because it leaked after i reinstalled it after cleaning. now im using a spare na reactor. but if i were keeping small 2ft tanks i would definitely use the ista reactor.

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## seanang168

My ista mix max is not spinning again two weeks after my last wash. I suspect is due to growth of algae in it or some plant particles stuck there. It is usually a nightmare for it to dismantle it for maintenance as pipes would come off and water will spill all over the place. And after that leAks may happen. My mix max generally only the first set of top propellor is turning. The main top second propellor generally stops spinning after a while.

Anyone manage to keep your ista mix max spinning smoothly all the time? And how do you achieve it? My mix max is used externally and connected to an external canister filter. Also I am currently using diy co2 production.

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## ladygaga

Now I don't think it's a good idea to use of reactor (I used two canister, one is just for CO2 reactor).

1) The reactor would become very dirty after a couple of days running.
2) Plants prefer bubble/misty co2

after 2 months running of reactor, now i return back to a diffuser.

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## seanang168

You are probably right. Quite painful to always maintain the reactor. Do you have a good diffuser to recommend?

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## ladygaga

I use a Nano Diffuser of ANS and made it in-line.
Refer to my DIY bellow:
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ctor-ever-made

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## tcampbell

Hi,
Sorry I have been away for a while and not logging in. It is not necessary for both propellers to rotate for it to work well. In a few of the models the second one rotated freely and it caused more noise. In most cases the second one does not rotate.




> Hi Tcampbell
> 
> there are two sets of propellors at the top. Is the design meant for both to rotate? Occasionally, the lower second set of propellors would stop moving which I believed is due to the presence of some small particles getting stuck on the propellor. However the top one would still be rotating. 
> 
> So should both set of propellors meant to rotate? Quite problematic to get the lower second set of propellor to rotate again when it get stuck.

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## tcampbell

The purpose of the bottom one is to hold the pipe in place and stop the vibrating sound of the pipe with the water movement and the co2. If that DIY method worths for you, great. Others in the design process found that it was more noisy if rotating so it was made stiff. In other models it is actually sealed to the pipe.




> Actually I am not referring to the 2 sets of propellers on top.
> Yes both of them should be rotating.
> I am referring to the bottom one, just before the outlet.
> that bottom propeller is as-designed to be tight fit and it is not rotating when I first use it.
> so I took it out and sand it and now all 3 propellers are rotating. (top2, bottom 1)

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## tcampbell

> i've stopped using my ista because it leaked after i reinstalled it after cleaning. now im using a spare na reactor. but if i were keeping small 2ft tanks i would definitely use the ista reactor.


Leaking was probably due to the gasket being twisted when reisntalling after cleaning. Making sure the gasket and the threads of the cap are clean when reinstalling usually fixes that. It is one of the problems of making it easy to clean. The is a model with it completely seal but after a while it got clogged so that was discontinued.

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## tcampbell

If ran after the filter and you do proper filter maintance then usually it does not need to be cleaned often, maybe once a year or longer.
Mist or complete disolved in the water makes no difference to plants. It is just that the mist shows up on plants leaves quicker making it "appear to be bubbling" when in fact it is just the mist. CO2 level in the tank usualy rises quicker with a reactor compared to a mist, as well as giving better tap visability without all the tiny bubbles floating around the tank.

QUOTE=ladygaga;578739]Now I don't think it's a good idea to use of reactor (I used two canister, one is just for CO2 reactor).

1) The reactor would become very dirty after a couple of days running.
2) Plants prefer bubble/misty co2

after 2 months running of reactor, now i return back to a diffuser.[/QUOTE]

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## ladygaga

> If ran after the filter and you do proper filter maintance then usually it does not need to be cleaned often, maybe once a year or longer.
> Mist or complete disolved in the water makes no difference to plants. It is just that the mist shows up on plants leaves quicker making it "appear to be bubbling" when in fact it is just the mist. CO2 level in the tank usualy rises quicker with a reactor compared to a mist, as well as giving better tap visability without all the tiny bubbles floating around the tank.
> 
> QUOTE=ladygaga;578739]Now I don't think it's a good idea to use of reactor (I used two canister, one is just for CO2 reactor).
> 
> 1) The reactor would become very dirty after a couple of days running.
> 2) Plants prefer bubble/misty co2
> 
> after 2 months running of reactor, now i return back to a diffuser.


[/QUOTE]

There have many debates about dissolved Vs mist CO2 in the tank.
IMO, dissolved CO2 is H2CO3--> H+, CO3(2-), it's not kind of CO2.
Misty CO2 is pure CO2 (100%) which is the major pigment of photosynthesis.

Anyway, I never saw any comparison in real time.

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## Ingen

I know this is an old thread. Was searching the forum for a reason why I'm getting micro bubbles from Ista Max Mix. My Co2 is around 3bps and using a Dymax 600 power head to power the reactor. Initially, there were tons of bubbles coming out at full throttle. After reading this thread I reduce the flow from 1/2 to now minimum but still having micro bubbles coming out. Any idea what else should I tweak?

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## qngwn

micro bubbles are not buoyant enough to go against the current flow, thus it is exiting your reactor. it's perfectly fine. I tried squeezing bioballs into it before, but the hole is too small to let a bioball through. you're getting a very high dissolvation rate already!

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## Ingen

I see bubbles even when my co2 is not switch on. Due to space constraint I couldn't turn the reactor upside down, but I release the air by running the reactor with the co2 inlet detach, waited for the water to spill out before inserting the co2 pipe. Any ideas and suggestions?

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

Hi all,

Just to share my experience with the Ista Max Mix. I am using the medium size:

1. I initially used this for my DIY CO2 generator (yeast and sugar mixture). Back then I was using the MaxiJet1200 to power the Ista Max Mix. This system did not work, as the pressure from the MaxiJet1200 is too strong and the CO2 pressure from the DIY is simply not high enough to push through the Ista MM. Thus water is being back flowed through the CO2 line.
2. Then I changed the the MaxiJet1200 with a smaller Exo Terra Repti Clear F150 with only 150L/hr, even when turning the pressure to the minimum, the flow of the CO2 is not stable. When I shook the CO2 generator bottles, I get perhaps 1bps and when it sits, I do not really get any count.
Conclusion, the Ista Max Mix is not very suitable for DIY CO2 system.

Finally, I bought a CO2 pressurised tank to replace my DIY system.

1. Still with the Exo Terra Repti Clear F150. This time, I had 3bps running and it seems the pressure from the CO2 cylinder is too strong for the F150 even when the F150 is running at 150L/hr. Air gaps started to build up at the upper portion of the Ista Max Mix and it filled all the way to more than half of the Ista MM.
2. Then I thought of replacing it with my MaxiJet1200, but I recalled reading this thread and it mentioned too high the L/hr and CO2 might not be mixed properly before it exits the Ista MM. Did a little product research and I thought the Eheim Compact 600 with a flow of 600L/hr might be a good fit. So I went ahead to purchase it to try it out

http://www.eheim.com/resources/produ...0410080405.jpg

And guess I was lucky right, ran the system for some hours and I do not see an air gap in the upper portion of the Ista Max Mix. The CO2 bubbles were broken down into small little bubbles that flow throughout the tank before exiting through the water surface.

I will monitor the system for another few days before providing an update to all.

Thank you for reading.


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## ConcaveLiNkiN

An update to all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ5CUSgI46Y

This setup had been running for 4 days, no visible air-gap.

Conclusion, the Eheim Compact 600 is ideal for the setup. Thank you all for reading.

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## felix_fx2

Looks like the speed is stable and not too fast.
But.. why the video never zoom in  :Smile:

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Looks like the speed is stable and not too fast.
> But.. why the video never zoom in


Request and I shall show. Haha... Where do you need me to zoom into? I shall video the portion which you request when I get home.  :Smile: 


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## Urban Aquaria

> An update to all:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ5CUSgI46Y
> 
> This setup had been running for 4 days, no visible air-gap.
> 
> Conclusion, the Eheim Compact 600 is ideal for the setup. Thank you all for reading.


Not sure if i missed any previous info... but i was wondering why not connect the Mix Max reactor externally inline with your canister filter output hose instead, then you'll have less items taking up space in the tank.  :Smile:

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## qngwn

Most people will connect it externally, but perhaps some are scared that they might leak (yes and they do leak over time), thus some people choose to put in their tank  :Smile:

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## ConcaveLiNkiN

> Most people will connect it externally, but perhaps some are scared that they might leak (yes and they do leak over time), thus some people choose to put in their tank


Correct! I am very "Kia Si" one. So I chose to put it in the tank. Before I decide on this system, I had reds that chances are it might leak over time. So I decide to place it in the tank.

I chose to use a submersed pump for this system as I do not want to affect the flow rate of my filter. I strongly believe that with sufficient current flowing within the tank, I will somehow reduce algae growth by quite a fair amount. 25 days after my initial setup, green spot algae is all I see for now.  :Smile:  keeping my fingers crossed.


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