# Other Aquarium Forums > Marine Tanks >  a newbie: need some help and advice on my 50x13x13" tank!

## whitefang

hi everyone,

firstly, my tank is about 1 and 1/2 feet (is that right?) and i've just started on it, i have absolutely no idea abt marine tanks as this is my first one. So i've decided on getting some advice from u guys here. sorry i've mixed up the dimensions between cm and inches. it's correctly *19x13x13* inches.



- is my tank ok with the rocks' load? there is about 8kg of live rock in there (i estimated, i might be wrong)

- there's a scooter blenny, blue legged hermit, white fish (damsel lookalike with blue fins at the bottom), also, 2 tubeworms.

- i've put a fan on it and the temperature is ranging from 26 deg, to 27 deg (with the light on)

- there is a protein skimmer, canister filter for it (dunno what brand is the skimmer cos the shop gave it to me FOC. the canister filter is a Dolphin C-500) I'm using the "output" of the 5-jet spray at a slight angle so that it is above the water and getting some air into it.

- there is a 24W Haiyang brand light hanging on it too (one tube is white, the other is blue).

- no sump.

- and finally, i just got the hermit about 2 days back. how long will it be before i need to provide it with a new shell?



so is this setup ok? i'm more interested in creatures that live on the bed, with a few corals on top and only a few fish in future (like clownfish, blue tang, dottyback) just for colour.

I also dunno how to test for anything in the water. my rocks don't seem to be growing any algae, although i do see little tuffs of fan-light creatures sticking out from the rocks sometimes.

I've also been taught by the LFS that I can dechlorinate my water by just adding salt mix into it and leaving it in a plastic container overnight. Is that advisable?

I have no idea abt the many tests that i have read abt from the posts. what can i do abt it? is it necessary and for what purpose do we need to monitor them? if there is a problem with an overdrive of one of the aspects, what can i do to rectify it? is there a one-for-all test kit which i can use?

what do you all suggest?

pls advice!!

thanks a lot bros!  :Grin:  much appreciated!

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## dnsfpl

everything looks good

are those air bubbles or wave maker in your tank?

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## whitefang

hi dnsfpl,

thanks for your kind words. those are air bubbles, coming from my filter outlet which is tilted at a slight angle. the fan i've just put on do cause a little bit of waves on the surface though. =)

i'm concerned abt the load of rocks in there. is it too much?

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## ssathesh

hi there is no such thing as too much rocks... more is better. my 4x2x2ft uses 120 kg rock.

1. pls remove the bubbles.. the air gets trapped in the rocks and causes it to die.. saltwater cannot have air bubbles.

2. how long did u cycle your rocks?

3. does your skimmer use an air stone?

4. how thick is your sand bed.. too thick and u will poison your tank!!!!

any way been reefing for 10yrs...
i might sound rude but im direct, so pls bear with me...

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## Jervis

Hi there

Nice to see a new marine tank in AQ.

I'll just comment on your livestock... you introduced a damsel-look alike fish at this early stage to test out the water I suppose. But Damsels are extremely aggressive and territorial. You will have to take extra care when adding your next fish. Go for something aggressive to match the Damsel.

Show us more pix please.

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## dnsfpl

is better to introduce CUC to test water
turbo snails are cheap and good

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## whitefang

> hi there is no such thing as too much rocks... more is better. my 4x2x2ft uses 120 kg rock.
> 
> 1. pls remove the bubbles.. the air gets trapped in the rocks and causes it to die.. saltwater cannot have air bubbles.
> 
> 2. how long did u cycle your rocks?
> 
> 3. does your skimmer use an air stone?
> 
> 4. how thick is your sand bed.. too thick and u will poison your tank!!!!
> ...


hi there,

i'm so happy abt ur comments! pls dun say u sound rude. i'm more than pleased and humbled to receive advice.  :Smile: 

1. if i dun get air bubbles that way? how should i ensure that my tank is aerated enough? as i dun seem to have any other options of getting air, like an air pump with an air stone in it etc.. i don't see any bubbles when the "outlet" is completely submerged.

2. the rocks are still cycling through. this is cos i've just got new rocks, so i've had to cycle the water again.. erm, is that the right thinking?

3. i dunno what kind of skimmer it is, as i surely dun see it anywhere in the shops, its just hung on, with two suction rubbers at the side to hold it in place, with a little tube that extends out of the water, "for air intake for the skimmer to function", as the LFS told me.

4. the sand bed is abt 1" thick, though some areas are less than that.


i'm glad to hear abt my rock load not being too heavy.. as there will be less water in it now, wouldn't it? 

pls advice more! i'm more than happy to learn!  :Grin:

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## whitefang

> Hi there
> 
> Nice to see a new marine tank in AQ.
> 
> I'll just comment on your livestock... you introduced a damsel-look alike fish at this early stage to test out the water I suppose. But Damsels are extremely aggressive and territorial. You will have to take extra care when adding your next fish. Go for something aggressive to match the Damsel.
> 
> Show us more pix please.



thanks for stopping by! yes, the damsel guy is quite territorial. he's actually a survivor from my prev ich problem. everyone else got wiped out except him and the scooter blenny. he was showing signs of being territorial when there were other fish around (before they died one by one), except to the clowns, tang and blenny.

i've learnt from AquaMarin that rocks need to be cycled too, and in the process, releases nitrates/nitrites (i cant remember which is the bad one), that's why my fish died with the stress of it. i was so sad, after all, they are alive, and i felt so sad that they had to die due to my ignorance. so i've learnt my lesson, and gotten all the rocks that i'll need, and letting it cycle again. this time with a new hermit to help it along. i've heard that 3 weeks is enough?

i was worried abt the rock load cos it seems like quite a lot. but it seems that its ok.

i'd like a starfish, a crab, a shrimp, maybe 2 clowns and 1 tang, to add on to my current residents in the near future.

is this resident list feasible?

i wish to get just a few small-sized soft and hard corals too. when should i add them in? while the rocks are still cycling, or done?

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## whitefang

> is better to introduce CUC to test water
> turbo snails are cheap and good


hey bro,

what is CUC?

and will my hermit harm the snail?

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## dnsfpl

cuc = cleanup crew

i am not too sure about HC but most say blue legged are snail friendly

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## whitefang

> cuc = cleanup crew
> 
> i am not too sure about HC but most say blue legged are snail friendly



ah ok.. i'm just worried abt the robbing of the snail's shell by the hermit.

thanks for the help on the abbreviations! haha!

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## ssathesh

> hi there,
> 
> i'm so happy abt ur comments! pls dun say u sound rude. i'm more than pleased and humbled to receive advice. 
> 
> 1. if i dun get air bubbles that way? how should i ensure that my tank is aerated enough? as i dun seem to have any other options of getting air, like an air pump with an air stone in it etc.. i don't see any bubbles when the "outlet" is completely submerged.
> 
> 2. the rocks are still cycling through. this is cos i've just got new rocks, so i've had to cycle the water again.. erm, is that the right thinking?
> 
> 3. i dunno what kind of skimmer it is, as i surely dun see it anywhere in the shops, its just hung on, with two suction rubbers at the side to hold it in place, with a little tube that extends out of the water, "for air intake for the skimmer to function", as the LFS told me.
> ...




hi before i can give any advise .... i need a pic of your tank, and eqpts....

than i can guide u....

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## whitefang

hi all,

i will update with more pics when i can, but pls pardon the lack in pic quality as i'm using a camera phone.

i've just put in some corals, and they seem to be a little droopy. the water temperature is at a constant 26 to 27 deg. Not using a chiller, but a fan. Maybe the tank is small, so it cools moderately well.

Maybe its the lighting then? I'm using the Haiyang brand 24W double tube light. Is that enough? I think its abt 1 ft in length. If its not of the right requirements, what should I look at, what options do i have?

the soft corals are really pretty and i'd like to keep them alive. *worried look*

also, i'm worried abt my tank surviving without the air bubbles.. where do they get their oxygen from? *puzzled*

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## whitefang

ok here are the pics of the skimmer and the canister filter, as well as one with my newly bought corals (abt 2 days ago, and pic taken when they were still strong and sturdy looking).
pls comment and advise.

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## Jervis

You've gotten some difficult corals there... the Blue sponge, sea fan and Carnation coral are filter feeders. Are you already feeding them?

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## whitefang

oh dear i didn't know. they were going for $6 a piece at Iwarna. 

Auntie gave me a bottle of 'live phytoplankton', and she said given my tank size and number of corals, just pour a capful into the tank (which i estimate to be abt 10 ml), once a week,

how should i go about caring for them?

i didnt get a sea fan. but my blue sponge seems to be collecting algae from the day it arrived. I did notice a part that was broken off, and seemed a little brown at the edges. I think this piece of beautiful coral is lost. =(

would u help me to I.D the rest of the corals so that i can google info about them?

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## dnsfpl

mushroom and zoa are pretty hardy
those common species can be very cheap too  :Laughing:

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## ssathesh

hi have u removed the bubbles?

also how often do u clean your skimmer?

what is in your canister filter?

and your lights are definitely not enough!

my first 3 qns will determine the condition of your tank, so pls answer truthfully.

anyway where are u staying?

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## whitefang

what is a zoa??

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## whitefang

> hi have u removed the bubbles?
> 
> also how often do u clean your skimmer?
> 
> what is in your canister filter?
> 
> and your lights are definitely not enough!
> 
> my first 3 qns will determine the condition of your tank, so pls answer truthfully.
> ...


no problem, more than happy to share with you what i do.
i have removed the bubbles, by simply tilting the outlet 5-jet spray of my filter straight. (so how do they get oxygen???)my skimmer collects gunk every 3 days or so, so i clear it then.the canister filter is just two layers -- one of filter wool, the other is a bag of charcoal.how much light is appropriate then? my corals are already dying.  :Crying: 

i live in marine parade.

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## Jervis

> how much light is appropriate then? my corals are already dying. 
> 
> i live in marine parade.


As mentioned in my previous post... those soft corals / filter feeders you have chosen are very difficult to keep alive especially in a relatively new tank. These inverts require feeding (using coral food formulated for filter feeders) as much as light... if not more in some cases.

But you need to strike a balance too as these coral food will pollute the water real easy. My suggestion is to learn from their deaths and try to keep hard corals that rely on light for survival (photosynthesis).

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## whitefang

oh dear.. =( seems i got off on the wrong foot, and the second step is not very sensible too.

gee..

the bottle of liquid plankton is not enough for the corals, u mean?

what should i do then?

how about the lighting? what is recommended for it?

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## whitefang

maybe i should upgrade my tank to a slightly bigger one of 2 feet?

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## Jervis

> the bottle of liquid plankton is not enough for the corals, u mean?
> 
> what should i do then?
> 
> how about the lighting? what is recommended for it?


Just like dosing nutrients/vitamins for planted tank... the owner must understand the requirements of his/her livestock, the type of food he/she feeds and the timing and sequence.

You can read more about this in books, magazines and net.

Can you take a photograph of your lighting unit and a shot of the tubes you are currently using?

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## Jervis

> maybe i should upgrade my tank to a slightly bigger one of 2 feet?


In marine... stability is everything. Larger water volume equates stability (in most cases). If you feel that the current tank is too challenging... I'd say yes, an upgrade to a larger tank will increase your chance of success. But in marine, a standard 3ft tank is still not considered large... that's the real challenge  :Grin: 

How's your water parameter?

For this moment, these are the most crucial ones:
1) Sg
2) Temperature range (highest point ever, it doesn't matter if 95&#37; of the time you are getting 27&#186;C, that 2 hours of 31&#186;C will ruin your reef tank to a point that it will take weeks to recover).
3) pH
4) KH

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## ssathesh

also u need coral chips....for bacteria.

anyway if u passing by woodlands let me know,, dont mind teaching u for a packet of coffee... im staying at woodlands crescent....

pm me for my HP..

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## whitefang

this is the current lighting that i'm using. the LFS gave it to me when I bought the tank from him. its like, part of a package.

as u can tell, since my tank is only 1 and 1/2 feet, i think the lights are only 1 feet (as it's shorter than the tank).

there are 2 tubes in it, one white, one blue. it says 24W (so i'm not sure if its 24W per tube, or for both).

the sand which came with it, he said those are coral chips. i'm hardly ever in woodlands (got no reason to be there).. but would still love to meet and get a tip or two from you! 

my number is 9752 4071. do sms me ur number!

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## whitefang

> In marine... stability is everything. Larger water volume equates stability (in most cases). If you feel that the current tank is too challenging... I'd say yes, an upgrade to a larger tank will increase your chance of success. But in marine, a standard 3ft tank is still not considered large... that's the real challenge 
> 
> How's your water parameter?
> 
> For this moment, these are the most crucial ones:
> 1) Sg
> 2) Temperature range (highest point ever, it doesn't matter if 95% of the time you are getting 27ºC, that 2 hours of 31ºC will ruin your reef tank to a point that it will take weeks to recover).
> 3) pH
> 4) KH


my temperature used to be at around 29 to 30 deg C.

But ever since I got the fan, it has been at a cap of 27 deg C.

Do note that I got the fan before I got the corals.

SG is maintained between 1.022 to 1.025. 

as for the pH and kH, I dont have any test kits for them.

There seems to be so many kinds in the market, which should I get? I see so many in the shops, one each for pH, kH, nitrates, nitrides, ammonia, phosphates, calcium etc etc etc..

I'm confused. Which should I get? Does it mean I have to get one of everything?

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## whitefang

since the fan is doing quite well ( i think 27 deg C is quite ok, am i wrong? ) for a 1 and 1/2 feet tank,

will it work just as well and adequately for a 2 ft tank? or do i have to get a chiller?

similarly for the 2 ft tank.. will my dolphin C500 be enough for it too? or must i get a bigger one?

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## Jervis

> this is the current lighting that i'm using. the LFS gave it to me when I bought the tank from him. its like, part of a package.
> 
> as u can tell, since my tank is only 1 and 1/2 feet, i think the lights are only 1 feet (as it's shorter than the tank).
> 
> there are 2 tubes in it, one white, one blue. it says 24W (so i'm not sure if its 24W per tube, or for both).


Yours is a 24W compact PL 50/50 (white/blue). Should be sufficient for most beginner corals. Don't think your light is the main culprit causing coral deaths.

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## whitefang

> Yours is a 24W compact PL 50/50 (white/blue). Should be sufficient for most beginner corals. Don't think your light is the main culprit causing coral deaths.



oh dear. so what should i do? get every single test kit in the LFS to test? or only a few important ones? if so, which ones?

by the way, must the light be on everyday? and for how many hours? if i skip a day or two, will there be damage done?

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## dnsfpl

you will have to top up freshwater everyday to counter the evaporation

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## whitefang

yup, usually abt alternate day or every two days.. i top up based on SG level.. if too high then i top up.. i try to keep it within the range.

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## Jervis

> oh dear. so what should i do? get every single test kit in the LFS to test? or only a few important ones? if so, which ones?
> 
> by the way, must the light be on everyday? and for how many hours? if i skip a day or two, will there be damage done?


You can start with a few essential ones such as kH, pH, NO2 and NO3. Salifert is a good brand.

8 to 10 hours daily... and why would you wanna off the light for a day or two? Algae problem?

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## whitefang

> You can start with a few essential ones such as kH, pH, NO2 and NO3. Salifert is a good brand.
> 
> 8 to 10 hours daily... and why would you wanna off the light for a day or two? Algae problem?



ok i'll get those 4 types first then.

do i need to get some calcium for my hermit's shell?

(cos i'm usually not around for the weekend as i shuttle between two homes, i did tell someone at home to turn it on, but i'm wondering if he forgets and stuff)

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## whitefang

ok i've gotten a test kit by API. these are my findings... (i bought the wrong PH tester, so i've got to get it changed before i can run a test on that)

Ca: 520ppm
KH: 10dKH (or 179 ppm)
PO4: 0 ppm
NO3: 5ppm

== does this mean that its ok to add fish now? ==

so i wonder what the problem is that makes my corals seem pretty lifeless. could it be that when I bought them, they were already in not-very-prime conditions?

most importantly, how do i tell if they are dead? especially the carnation coral, cos the biggest piece cant seem to stand. its always droopy. And the blue sponge seems to be having a layer of dirt on its surface.

like so? :http://www.centralpets.com/animals/f...s/swi1845.html

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## dnsfpl

what "water" do you use

my po4 is very high, 0.5ppm
now using distilled water
hope things will get better

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## Jervis

> (cos i'm usually not around for the weekend as i shuttle between two homes, i did tell someone at home to turn it on, but i'm wondering if he forgets and stuff)


Huh? You shouldn't manually control your lighting. Get a timer dude  :Opps:

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## whitefang

a timer sells for around $20+ at the LFS. am i looking at the right item? if yes, then i'll get them.

MAJOR PROBLEM:
I got a cleaner shrimp yesterday, and it died within an hr of hitting the water. so i got back to the LFS and he sold me another one at a discounted price. and guess what? the same thing happened too.

can anyone enlighten me what could be the problem plssssss?? 

2ND PROBLEM:
i got a Blue Dorid nudibranch (it is the purple one right?) and after some research, i read that the lifespan of it is only a couple of weeks. is that true? if that is so, what can i do to maintain a nudibranch in my tank, and to have a constant resident in there? get a mate for it? or... ??? and better news, i've also read that it is a carnivore, and it eats corals and sponges. the diet is quite fussy. oh dear.... how?

3RD PROBLEM: 
there is a mandarin in there too. i've noticed that it was being bullied at the LFS and i didnt want to leave it there, so i bought it home. the colour is a bit off, its not as vibrantly coloured as those pics that i see online. the colour is very dull, and in fact, there seems to be a white layer of slime on it too.

how do i nurse it back to health? and as for its diet, it consists of mainly copepods right? do any LFS sell that? I patronise Iwarna and AM (katong branch). 

thanks guys for the help in advance. i'd really like to get some answers.  :Sad: 
all in all, i've been a great sinner, getting myself into mandarins and nudibranchs, which the LFS said are grazers and herbivores. guess i'll have to work harder to maintain them. pls help!

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## whitefang

> what "water" do you use
> 
> my po4 is very high, 0.5ppm
> now using distilled water
> hope things will get better


the water is from the tap, then added with Crystal Sea brand of sea salt. the LFS told me that that can dechlorinate water as well, so that is adequate.

is he wrong?

so far, the tank is generally still ok. is it REALLY ok, or are my residents just a bit more of the hardy kind?

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## dnsfpl

i use tap water previous and my po4 is app 0.5ppm
changed to distilled water and did a 6 litres water change twice
will continue til the end of the year and measure
hope the po4 will drop by at least 50%, to 0.25ppm

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## whitefang

> i use tap water previous and my po4 is app 0.5ppm
> changed to distilled water and did a 6 litres water change twice
> will continue til the end of the year and measure
> hope the po4 will drop by at least 50%, to 0.25ppm


wow so u mean that u have done a permanent switch to distilled water? what kind, and where do u get ur supplies? care to share with me?  :Smile:

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## dnsfpl

i got them from sheng siong

btw if you have no problem with tap water, stick to it

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## whitefang

> i got them from sheng siong
> 
> btw if you have no problem with tap water, stick to it



well after testing, my PO4 level is not zero. but just low, i guess. cos its using a color chart to compare. and it seems between two colours. so i'm guessing that its low but not zero. anyway those color charts are really hard to see.

wow, how many bottles u got to buy at one time, man! and dont distilled water come with other stuff inside as well? like calcium, chlorine etc..

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## dnsfpl

i buy 12 x 1.5 litres at app $5 depending on promotion

as for nutrients level, not too sure lol

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## whitefang

> i buy 12 x 1.5 litres at app $5 depending on promotion
> 
> as for nutrients level, not too sure lol



my goodness! hahahahaha! is ur tank big? how many bottles u top up at a time, man!  :Laughing:

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## dnsfpl

my tank is 37cm cube
i seldom top up, 10-15% water change, twice a week

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## whitefang

hmmm.. good good. i got to top up quite often, usually every 2 days. the fan really speeds up the acceleration!

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