# Killies Import > Non-Killie Segment >  Live Food questions

## wcknight

Can you reuse the water from baby brine shrimp cultures ? I've tried reusing the water from hatches (after straining out the unhatched eggs and shrimp) and the subsequent eggs either did not hatch at all or had extremely low yield.

Is there a way to recondition the water ???

I even tried using only half of the original water, but still poor results. 
It seems like a waste to have to prepare an entirely new batch of water for each hatch.

Also, almost the same question for grindal worms... After I get a culture going good for a month or two, the soil gets compacted and starts to smell. I think the soil gets satutated from worm wastes, and they all congregate mostly at the surface. If you spray fresh water at the sides the worms will seek the cleaner moisture.

Bascially I have to re-establish a new culture with fresh soil. Is there any way to re condition the soil without completely starting over or is it best to just start a new one and dump the old one ???

regards, Wes

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## Scott_sg

Hi Wes,

It is not worth the trouble of trying to reuse the brine shrimp water, unless you want to set up a large tank of live rock, and even that solution would still need help, with top ups and so on. And unless you are into marine ecosytems that would not be even close to practical. 

When the nauplii hatch they release organics into the water, things like enzymes and membranes and so on. That is why the culture will sooner or later go cloudy, bacteria love the nice warm organic soup. So in the end there are not any realistic alternatives than to start over each time. 

With all live food cultures there will always be some waste. The soil for grindal worms will need to be replaced for the reasons you say. Recycling it is not really worth the trouble unless you really have a shortage of soil to use. Not having a garden anymore i can understand that problem though. If you are really keen to do something with it, i would suggest using it to grow herbs on your kitchen window or something. Plants would love it, although you would have to mix it in with old soil first. 

Hope that helps,
Scott.

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## wcknight

Thanks Scott,

That makes sense. But then how does the BBS ever make it to adult stage if the water usually gets poluted after a few days. Does it simply require a large body of water with organic filtering for the shrimp to continue growing ?

IF I ever wanted to raise the shrimp from eggs to adult, I suppose I would need the large live rock set up as mentioned.


As for the worms, being a real cheapskate, I may just re-use the soil for plants.... although the smell may preclude me from even doing that....

Wes

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## stormhawk

Wes, the only way that the BBS nauplii make it into the adult stage is by keeping them in a larger tank with some form of filtration and undertaking regular changes of water with a similar level of salinity.

The nauplii need fine particulate food and I've managed to raise them to a larger size by giving them Liquifry made for marine animals. Its a particulate food and they are by nature, filter feeders. I learnt of this method with the marine Liquifry after reading an article written by Gwee S.M., a member of this forum in another website.

As with all cultures, you need to refresh the grindalworm culture media on a regular basis. Otherwise the critters will not like it and may just die off. I never had much luck with grindals. They just don't like the weather here.

With BBS, its best to start off again with a fresh batch of hatching water. Raising them is just too much work so you're better off buying the adults from the store.  :Laughing:

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## wcknight

Thanks Jianyang,

I guess I'm a bit spoiled with having the 'free' live food from raising grindal worms. I used to buy tubifex worms every week, and it is just so much more convenient to harvest your own worms. 

I would have liked to do something similar with brine shrimp... I may try raising daphnia or moina instead.

Wes

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## stormhawk

With an outdoor pond and loads of green water, you should be able to culture Moina or Daphnia with little difficulty.  :Wink:  

And besides, I find that fish fry tend to grow faster when fed with fresh red-coloured Daphnia / Moina as compared to BBS. However for us here, its not that easy to obtain them.

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## nonamethefish

I've found that BBS can be raised to adulthood in the hatchwater. WHat I did was after harvesting out most of the nauplii and then removing as many cysts as practical(swishing the net around in the water)...I would pour the brine water and remaining nauplii into a larger container of sorts and leave this in the sun. Maybe add in some greenwater etc. if you want to. Over time I would occasionally pour more hatch water in and harvest up the adults.

Won't provide much of an alternate food source(maybe only 20-50 or so adults) but it doesn't take much work and is free.

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## retro_gk

It is not that hard to raise daphnia or moina indoors either. I have cultures of both sitting in 1-2 gallon jars on my desk, where they get some sunlight. I replace about 1/2 the water in the jars with green water from a friend's outdoor tub every other week or so.

The current setup is more of a trial run to see if it can be done. Over the next few months, I hope to set up phytoplankton cultures like the ones here http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html and up the scale of the cultures to 15 gallon tubs.

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## RonWill

Rahul, are your gallon jars aerated? I've been trying to up the moina count in my cultures but there's hardly enough to feed what few fry I'm raising now. Fortunately, I'm able to buy bags of them without too much trouble.

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## retro_gk

Ron, the jars are not mechanically aerated but, I have a small clump of _Najas_ in there which "pearls" quite a bit.

If they are available for purchase though, it does not make much sense to culture them.

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## Diapterondave

Rahul, Ron,
I culture my Moina with an airline with just a few coarse bubbles gently moving the water. You will find that Moina do not get as big when grown with aeration. However that is perfect for me because I have a bounty of food for my fry. I use 20-gallon laundry tubs I bought from a local "dollar " store for $5 each. I grow green water outside. I use an algae fertilizer called Gillurds F/2 but there are many roads to Rome to grow greenwater. The point is if you have greenwater you grow Moina that simple. I change 2- 5 gallons of their water every few days and replace it with greenwater. The water gets clear as they eat the greenwater. It gets clear feed more greenwater. Fry tanks stay healthier also because less pollution from using live foods that can live in the fry tank indefinitely.

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## RonWill

> If they are available for purchase though, it does not make much sense to culture them.


Rahul,
Come year end, it is also the monsoon season when moina and tubifex supply can get sporadic. If I can get some decent harvest by then, my fry need not go hungry.

I also share the same opinion as David, that moina can survive longer and help maintain a better water quality in fry grow-out containers, ie. so long as we don't overfeed.

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## Blessedsilence

Wes,

I have raised Brine Shrimps to adults and had them propigate regularly in just a 10 gallon tank. I just put a small ammount of eggs in the 10 gallon tank and add new water when it evaporates, very little maint. I have been lucky, alot of people seem to have a problem raising them. 

When I used to have more time on my hands I used to drive out to the Great Salt Lake and harvest my own adult Brine Shrimp. But now I just dont seem to have as much time as I used to. 

Needless to say every once in awhile I get out that old 10 gallon tank to get some Brine Shrimp large enough for my fish to enjoy chasing down. I just feed them invert food meant for SW tanks.

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## wcknight

Another shrimp question:

How much salt do you use to hatch your shrimp ? for example in a one gallon or two liter container ?

I've tried various amounts with mixed results. It seems like every other hatch is a good one, and the next is sparse.


I've tried anywhere from two or three teaspoons to 5 or 6 per 2 liters of water.

wc

(the eggs I have are refrigerated and come from a premium batch- it is supposed to have like 90 to 95 hatch rate - on a good hatch I get maybe 75% -- on a bad one, probably much less than 50% - I see a lot of suspended and floating eggs in a bad hatch. I see no suspended eggs and fewer floating one in a good batch.)

my impression is that, when I use less salt I get better results.

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