# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  Question about ADA Africana + Malaya new tank for Apisto

## ichise

Hi all ,

Been reading all about apistogramma and I think I'm poisoned .

Started a new tank with ADA Africana and cap with ADA Malaya powder on top .
I transferred over my Hang on Filter from old tank .
Question is I used to use ADA Amazonia for my old tank I need to do massive water changes for the first few weeks to bring down the starting ammonia .
For Africana and Malaya I don't seem to have any ammonia , is it because I use my old filter ? 
Do I still need to do huge water changes for the start ?
No ammonia do I need to add to start the cycling ?

Sorry for so many questions , first time using Africana and Malaya soil .

Thanks .

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## EdwinTay

hi bro ichise

Welcome to the world of apistos.

I am not sure what is ADA Africana / Malaya powder. What I put in my GEX S tank is : black ADA soil (Japanese brand for shrimps & plants), one cave/ pot, a couple of java ferns (on wood), air stone (yes, airstone), ketapang leaf & peat extract (to lower ph to about 6), anti chrorine & chromine.

Apistos are surprisingly hardy. Contrary to what some books say about sensitivity to nitrate & ammonia, I just did a 25% water change after a month. My fishes are still OK & some have bred & some show breeding behaviour. When I change water, I do not have the time & space to age the water - just put a little anti chrorine & chromine.

Based on my experience, the main problems are; airstone does not function - fish suffocate, sometime too hot (apistos prefer slightly cooler temperature of 22-25% C.

With regards to ph, the wild caught or newer species require lower ph between 5.0-6.5 (not below 4). The farm-bred ones such as caca & normal agassizzi prefer neutral ph. So, I think ADA africana/ Malaya powder will not be an issue unless they significantly reduce ph.

In fact, you should not be too concerned about giving special treatment to apistos. For instance, for dry food, I bought the luohan pellet & crushed them (much cheaper than special pellets for cichlids) & for live food, I use frozen bloodworms, brine shrimps & daphnia, even for fries (much more convenient & cheaper than hatching brine shrimp)

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## ichise

Hi bro Edwin ,

Wow your reply really helps me alot , I kept a planted tank , shrimp tank for few years , but first time want to try out apisto .
I think I been reading too much about them being too sensitive to water and PH and afraid I might kill them on first try ... Haha
My PH about 5.7 now , may get a pair soon , will post some pics of my tank when I'm free . 
Is it easy to get a pair nowadays ? What if 1 die or get a sneaker male , is it easy to find a replacement ? 

Thanks ,
Ichise

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Ichise

One of my gurus told me he kept shrimps in his apistos tank for the apistos to eat the shrimp larvae. I do that (cheap cherry & malayan shrimps) - it works. But, you must be careful because some aggressive apistos will eat the parent shrimps too.

You can pm me because I have some 1-1.5 mth old mamore fries to let go. You are right about the sale of apistos - mostly, they are sold in pairs - that was one of the reasons I stopped for a while.

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## barmby

I think one still need to cycle the tank. I will simply let the tank sit for a month. It will be quite safe for apistogramma especially you are using soil which lower the pH and soften the water

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## Zacquir

Hi bro Ichise,
I believe the low nitrate to ur newly malayan soil setup could be due to ur hangon being already established. Hence the low nitrate. I would personally let the tank run for a week or two before putting my apistos.

Ive never kept apistos before. However i do know that JZX Pet Boutique bring a variety of apisto species. The shop is at ang mo kio. Do drop them a visit as i believe they just brought in new stock. Mostly wild caught specimens. Perhaps u wanna go look look see see. Check out what species out in the market while waiting for ur tank to settle.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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## Zacquir

Check out this url.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=512882

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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## cueball

Aquaone at farmway 2 has quite a few pairs too. Might want to call before going down though.

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## ichise

Hey you apisto guys are awesome ~

Thanks for all the advice and info .
Actually the filter and water all from my other tank , but first time trying this with new soil , anyway I guess will wait for 1-2 weeks while I see which species I want to get . 
Will post some pictures of the tank when I'm home later . 

Apisto guys rocks  :Smile:

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## ichise

Ok guys some pictures of my tank , sorry for the bad quality image , brother using my camera for holidays .

not a big tank , this is just temporary , too many tank girlfriend making noise ... lol

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/galle...ge.php?i=14439
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/galle...ge.php?i=14440
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/galle...ge.php?i=14438

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## stormhawk

ADA soils, regardless of what they are, contain a large amount of ammonia to kick start the cycling process. As what Colin has mentioned, it would be wise to leave it to cycle for a month at least, before you introduce any new fish. During this time, please do a check on your tank regularly, in case mosquitoes or damselflies/dragonflies decide to lay eggs in there, especially since you have the Money Plant on the top.

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## ichise

Thanks alot stormhawk for helping me edit the image link  :Smile:  ok will take note and monitor for the time being .

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi all ,
> 
> Been reading all about apistogramma and I think I'm poisoned .
> 
> Started a new tank with ADA Africana and cap with ADA Malaya powder on top .
> I transferred over my Hang on Filter from old tank .
> Question is I used to use ADA Amazonia for my old tank I need to do massive water changes for the first few weeks to bring down the starting ammonia .
> For Africana and Malaya I don't seem to have any ammonia , is it because I use my old filter ? 
> Do I still need to do huge water changes for the start ?
> ...


One of the reasons why you are experiencing less ammonia released from the Africana and Malaya aqua soil is because those 2 are designed with lower ammonia and less nutrient content... here is a chart which shows the difference between the various aqua soil types:



Chart from plantedtank.net

Hope the info helps!  :Smile:

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## ichise

Wow thanks for the info , I thought something is wrong with my test kit .
Time for some "commando" fish to start the cycle  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> Wow thanks for the info , I thought something is wrong with my test kit .
> Time for some "commando" fish to start the cycle.


Glad to help!

Yeah, Africana and Malaya aqua soil is very good for tanks with less focus on plants but need to buffer lower pH for certain fauna (ie. discus, apistogramma, shrimps etc). 

Some people use them for planted tanks too, but just have to dose more ferts to supplement the difference in soil nutrients.  :Smile:

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## ichise

Hi Urban ,

According to the chart Africana and Malaya PH is 5.9 and 5.5 ,
How long do you think their buffer capability will last ? 

Cheers

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## barmby

Keep some frogbits or other fast grower. They will use the NPK and thereby use some of the NH4 or rather censor the NH4. Amazonia is rich!

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi Urban ,
> 
> According to the chart Africana and Malaya PH is 5.9 and 5.5 ,
> How long do you think their buffer capability will last ? 
> 
> Cheers


Good question... that i'm not too sure, i guess we'll have to await those who have used these aqua soil types to share their experiences using them.

But if based on Amazonia aqua soil, i would probably estimate up to a year? Depending on the water changes, hardscape and flora/fauna density.

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## stormhawk

When I last used Amazonia, it drove my pH down to around 5.8 for slightly more than a year. The chart says 6.8 but it can drop that low.

I usually don't recommend the use of soils for apistos, since they seem to prefer sand bottom tanks. You can watch them sift the sand for morsels like they do in the wild. They are after all, mini "earth-eaters" due to their ancestry and current subfamily. Plus you're less likely to run into problems with a thin layer of sand as compared to a thick layer of soil that will eventually break down into some sort of muck.

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## EdwinTay

hi bros

bro Stormhawk is correct abt apistos preference for fine sand, also soil tends to cloud water. The problem is that sand is heavy. I kept apistos about 10 years ago but did not have much success. This time around, I am experiencing less deaths & more brooding behaviour. Also, less hassle -especially water change. The difference is in the set-up. Previously, I used small plastic tanks, no soil/ sand, live food. Now, I use Gex S tanks, black ada soil, frozen food

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## barmby

Erm don't change water for a month, the pH definitely low.. haha .. sand or no sand

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## ichise

so got myself a pair of apistogramma tefe today ...
don't know how to resize , image sharpness and resolution drop so much .
anyway some pics ...

male first day 



female

female happy face ... lol


so far so good both sticking together for the whole day  :Smile: 
unlike my previous caca not compatible  :Opps:

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## AQMS

Nice shot!

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## outspoken

Bro, The pics are nicely taken.
Where you bought them from? Nowadays it's hard to get a good Ap. Caca pair. My pair also gone case. Only see a lot of Caca males selling as individual.

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## ichise

Thanks zerofighter ~

Hi Outspoken , 
I got them at c328 , was not planning on it , pass by see see and saw this pair in the tiny container so just try it out .
Saw female caca orange there also if you interested . They always have stock for orange caca nowadays .
Actually didn't expect the tefe to pair off so well , not really looking for breeding as long they don't chase and attack each other. Both hanging together whole day so nice to watch

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## outspoken

Oh ok. I'm planning to go there today to get some plants. Will go and see see what else they have in stock. Thanks.

If they are pairing up well then you can try to breed them. I normally do a small Water change and feed them small amount of frozen bloodworm/brine shrimp
Monitor for any change in colour for the female. If the female is settle down,she will definitely turn yellowish.
But beware it's addictive,once you accomplished to breed a specific type you will tend to try out another type.

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## ichise

Hahah ... Anyway what you normally feed them ? Hikari frozen bloodworm fine ? 
Usually I just feed NLS food . 
I'm starting another 2feet tank soon and plan to transfer them over ... ( provided I don't get more species in the meantime ) haha ... It's gonna be pure rockscape , tired of plants too many to maintain  :Razz:

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## outspoken

I feed them mix of tropical bits and micro pellets and change to frozen food once in 3-4 days. I used to give them frozen bloodworm a lot but they tend to get infected with disease easily especially bloated stomach. It's quite hard to save them once they are infected.

I just got myself a candidi pair from Aquaone.C328 don't have any good apisto stock,only Ap. Caca orange and Ap. Trifisciata. Price on the higher side compared to Aquaone. 

I don't think i'll be going to Aquaone already as i already acquired all his different species.

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## ichise

Nice ~ so how many pair you have already ? Haha 
Anyway can't wait to set up new tank , need get some nice wood  :Razz:

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## outspoken

I've already bought 9 pairs since i restart this hobby again but only left with 8 pairs. My Ap. Caca orange bought from C328 seems to give in to disease after 1 week. Most of them are in a Community Tank except for my Ap. Gephyra and Candidi. Trying to breed them especially gephyra but seems like the female is too small and not ready to breed.

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## ichise

I see ... Ya I notice most selling very young female , got to wait I guess , if I see anymore interesting pair I will inform you hahaha

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## ichise

male day 3  :Smile:

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## outspoken

Nice shot when it's flaring. It looks like a young male you have.

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## ichise

Yea both very young if I'm not wrong , how's your candidi doing ?

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## doppelbanddwarf

The female looks like a young male to me.

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## ichise

Is it ? will monitor and see , so far both always hanging out together no fight yet . Maybe gay hahah ...

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## outspoken

You may need to give time to see if it's a sneaker male or not. Good thing about them,there is no such thing as gay partners.
My Candidi is placed in a small tank with low light and only 3 dither fish. Haven't monitor much though so hope they will pair up nicely.
My only concern is my Ap. Gephyra male as he seems to be infected with white lice/pimple on the head. Worry it will be Head in the hole disease.
Hope that he can survive because it's hard to find a replacement.

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## ichise

Gephyra I seldom see in LFS , hope it turn well for you . 

Anyway planning to start a new tank with sand only , only concern is PH , my tap water PH is way high about 7.6 average 
Using those sera peat is it troublesome ? Or unstable ?

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## stormhawk

It is not troublesome to use Sera Peat. Just get a filter bag with a fine mesh and put a handful inside then tie it up securely. Basically treat the bag like a bag of tea. Place it where your water flow is strongest, so the effects of the peat will diffuse throughout the tank. 

From your photo it is likely that you have two males. The bigger of the two seems to have fairly short pair of pelvic fins. It was probably a subdominant male itself in whatever group it grew up with. Give it time and the pelvic fins will start to grow a little longer. Male agassizii tend to have long pelvic fins so yours has a fair bit of growing to do. From what I recall, these are two features you need to look for when finding a female agassizii. A rounded tail as compared to pointed/lanceolate in the male and shorter pelvic fins as compared to a dominant male with longer pelvic fins. Easiest is to find one that is already spawning. I actually found a healthy female once at C328 a long time ago. She laid eggs in the small betta tank where she was housed beside a not-so-nice male.

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## ichise

Cool ~ thanks for the tip will keep a lookout next time .
Regarding the peat can I just add alittle and leave it in the water ?
Or I need to take it out after I get the desired PH ? 
Was thinking of leaving it there to buffer for water changes .
So tired of using ADA for all the tanks . 
Cheers

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Ichise

From talking to more senior brothers, the sera peat is risky as it takes time to take effect - so you may keep adding because you think need more.

My method is to soak the pear, together with some ketapang leaves in a bottle & leave for 3-4 days. Then use the water. I also have ada soil. No problems.

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## ichise

Hi bro Edwin ,

Thanks for the tip , in that case need to find a big pail to add peat and measure the PH for water changes .
How long usually will 1 pack of peat last ? After I get the PH I throw the peat or keep and reuse ? 
Thanks

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## stormhawk

The effects of the peat takes time, so you need to be patient. Even with ketapang leaf it takes time. A gradual decrease in pH is better than a sudden one. Any kind of sudden change can shock the fishes badly and they might react by dying on you. I have no idea how long a pack of peat would last you. When I last had apistos, I tend to keep them in tanks with a thin layer of soil-type substrate or fine sand. In my case, I used GEX's plant soil for the soil-based tanks. Since you already have ADA soil in the tank you don't really need the peat, as the soil itself will buffer the pH over a period of roughly 1-2 years, before you actually need to use stuff like peat or ketapang leaves to keep the conditions acidic.

Using some ketapang leaves, prepared beforehand, would be a better option, since the fish will appreciate the addition of leaf litter to their setup. In some case they will lay their eggs underneath the rotting leaves.

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## ichise

Hi Stormhawk thanks for the info , 
Setting up a new tank with sand that's why finding out about peat  :Very Happy: 
My tap water is average 7.6 , sucks

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## stormhawk

In some parts of the island the water is soft, like where I am. I figure where you live, the supply has a higher amount of buffers in the water, thus the pH you encounter. In any case, there's nothing much to worry about. Apistos are quite adaptable, depending on the species. I have read of cases where people have managed to spawn them, even at pH 7.5.

http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/in...g-8-0-ph.3548/

For reference.  :Wink:

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## ichise

Hi Stormhawk ,

Thanks will setup the tank and see how it goes  :Smile:

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