# Planted Tanks > Aquascaping >  2Ft Hairgrass Tank

## sanjaypills55

Been 2 weeks since I started by tank using Dry Start Method


Bought a 2 ft Tank & cabinet from a nice bro. Since there were some scratches on the front glass, removed the black background paper & used the back as my front.

.
Bought ADA 9L powder type, I think it will be better since I am intending to plant Hairgrass
Made a slope using corrugated plastic board & double sided tape. Put some lava rocks on the bottom so that I don't waste ADA.

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## sanjaypills55

Planted the Hairgrass evenly
Front would be dwarf Hairgrass & back is Japanese Hairgrass & wrapper with cling film
Bought this from my LFS. Hope it's bright enough

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## sanjaypills55

After regularly spraying Flourish Excel & potassium, seems like the old leaves are getting yellow & drying


But I do see new leaves & root growth

I have read that since the plants may have been growing submerged , growing emersed may cause such drying off.
Hopefully that's causing it.
I did remove some plants to check. The stem is still green so should be OK I hope.

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## sanjaypills55

Still few more weeks of DSM left.
Spray painted my rusty 5L CO2 tank & gave it for refill

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## fireblade

will the double sided tape cause problem when you fill up the tank? 
interesting way of having a slope without exposing any rocks...

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## aza

What lifestock will you be planning to keep in this tank later?

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## Urban Aquaria

Just a quick note... your plants undergoing DSM already have ample access to Co2 from the air so the dosing of Seachem Excel is not required at this stage.

In addition, the active chemical in excel is a form of disinfectant and can burn exposed plants if not used in a heavily diluted condition (ie. dosed in an aquarium filled full with water). Hence its not a good idea to spray excel directly on emersed plants, as it can cause damage to them.

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## sanjaypills55

> will the double sided tape cause problem when you fill up the tank? 
> interesting way of having a slope without exposing any rocks...


If i created a slope without double sided tape & plastic, the slope would have gotten flattened over time.
Maybe overtime the double side tape might loose its stickiness.




> What lifestock will you be planning to keep in this tank later?


I have some nice guppies in my temporary holding tank, i will add some red cherry shrimps maybe some ottos to keep the tank clean.
I wanted to added cardinals too, but read that cardinals may attack the shrimps.




> Just a quick note... your plants undergoing DSM already have ample access to Co2 from the air so the dosing of Seachem Excel is not required at this stage.
> 
> In addition, the active chemical in excel is a form of disinfectant and can burn exposed plants if not used in a heavily diluted condition (ie. dosed in an aquarium filled full with water). Hence its not a good idea to spray excel directly on immersed plants, as it can cause damage to them.


Thanks for the advice. I have been spraying in a diluted form but will stop spraying Flourish Excel, don't wanna take chances.
Is spraying Potassium safe?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Is spraying Potassium safe?


Potassium is usually okay to spray on the emersed plants in moderate amounts.

Just have to note that its sometimes also possible that too much of certain concentrated ferts sprayed on emersed plants can affect their leaves too (most aquarium fert dosages are based on much greater dilution ratios in tank water). So if you notice the plants deteriorating, then just have to cut back on the ferts or dilute them even further before spraying.

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## sanjaypills55

Need to look for a canister filter.
Have narrowed down to 2.
This question must have been asked many times , which one is better ?

1) Eheim 350 (2215)
Lots of positive feedback. Simple design. But doesn't have media trays & need to buy double taps separately.

2) Fluval 306:
Does have media trays & has Aquastop which should be similar to double taps.

Price wise both are similar considering I need to purchase double taps for eheim.


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## Ivan Choo

My dollar will be with Eheim for all the reasons you've stated. However I will advise you to get the higher flow rate if possible. Considering the fact that canister filter gets clogged over time, and all the inline equipments that you will install, you *will* need the higher flow rate. You may get away with lesser flow since you're doing iwugami style, but consider future rescaping needs. 

Another way to get around the lack of media trays and double taps is to use a prefilter canister with build in taps like SunSun. This way you just fill the eheim filter full with bio media and let the prefilter handle all mechanical filtering. During maintenance you only need to clean the prefilter with taps which is fast and easy. The main canister can go without cleaning for months. However this will reduce your flow rate which is why many advise you start with a overpowered canister. 

Im using Eheim 2071 for my 2ft with the sunsun prefilter with great results. I clean my prefilter every week and only touch my main canister every 3 months (and i believe I can stretch longer since the main canister never gets much buildup). Main canister is filled 100% with bio media, which handles my heavy bioload with ease. I like the eheim pro series for its boxy form factor too, maximizes cabinet space utilization. 

http://img01.cp.aliimg.com/imgextra/...!124102275.jpg

this prefilter costs less than $30, has build in taps, is easy to clean and reliable too.

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## sanjaypills55

> My dollar will be with Eheim for all the reasons you've stated. However I will advise you to get the higher flow rate if possible. Considering the fact that canister filter gets clogged over time, and all the inline equipments that you will install, you *will* need the higher flow rate. You may get away with lesser flow since you're doing iwugami style, but consider future rescaping needs. 
> 
> Another way to get around the lack of media trays and double taps is to use a prefilter canister with build in taps like SunSun. This way you just fill the eheim filter full with bio media and let the prefilter handle all mechanical filtering. During maintenance you only need to clean the prefilter with taps which is fast and easy. The main canister can go without cleaning for months. However this will reduce your flow rate which is why many advise you start with a overpowered canister. 
> 
> Im using Eheim 2071 for my 2ft with the sunsun prefilter with great results. I clean my prefilter every week and only touch my main canister every 3 months (and i believe I can stretch longer since the main canister never gets much buildup). Main canister is filled 100% with bio media, which handles my heavy bioload with ease. I like the eheim pro series for its boxy form factor too, maximizes cabinet space utilization. 
> 
> http://img01.cp.aliimg.com/imgextra/...!124102275.jpg
> 
> this prefilter costs less than $30, has build in taps, is easy to clean and reliable too.


Thank Ivan, 
Sun sun prefilter would cost $30 only, but getting a higher powered canister would cost much more.

Currently I don't have the budget for it plus I don't plan to have a heavy livestock in my tank.

I am thinking of going for Eheim 2215 with inline CO2 diffuser

For now will go without the double taps, will consider buying later if maintenance is too troublesome.


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## Ivan Choo

If you do buy double taps, you can try the China branded ones which are cheaper and quite well built. Eheim don't make double taps like they do filters. I've broke a few eheim double taps before and totally disappointed with them.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Need to look for a canister filter.
> Have narrowed down to 2.
> This question must have been asked many times , which one is better ?
> 
> 1) Eheim 350 (2215)
> Lots of positive feedback. Simple design. But doesn't have media trays & need to buy double taps separately.
> 
> 2) Fluval 306:
> Does have media trays & has Aquastop which should be similar to double taps.
> ...


Both of those filter models will do the filtration job well for your tank size and setup... just depends on whether you prefer more features or simpler design.

Just to expand your choices, maybe look at other comparable filter models. Pro models like the Eheim Professional/Experience 250 (aka 2224) or the Ecco Pro 300 (aka 2236) are also good choices to consider, since they also retail at the similar price range. Those models already come with inbuilt double taps, convenient media tray baskets and higher flow rates (and the ecco pro has a easy priming feature too).

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## sanjaypills55

Did some shopping @Pet Mart

Eheim 350


Double taps, Lily Pipes & Atomiser


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## sanjaypills55

My CO2 Regulator is leaking  , given for repair

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## fireblade

congrats with your purchase!

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## sanjaypills55

Thanks fireblade, but I still need to wait for 2-3 weeks for my hairgrass to grow.

Patience patience   

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## fireblade

any update on the tank?

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## sanjaypills55

Not much changes, the old Hairgrass leaves yellow & new green leaves growing...will share pics once it's grows more

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## sanjaypills55

The worst thing about DSM is all the waiting, I have read about people giving up halfway & flooding the tank.
I growth seem much slowly so I did some photo comparison from pic taken abt 2 weeks ago

Grass looks like it's growing, but not much of a carpet 

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## sanjaypills55

I am planning to run DSM for another 2-3 weeks & after that fill up the tank & run Co2.
I would need a Co2 drop checker.

I have been reading about it in the forum, i need some help from experts out here .

Which type of solution should I get ?

My local shop sells ANS brand but I read those need to add 4dkh. anyone knows where to get that? Saw online videos of how to make it, but seems too troublesome.

I read that Ocean Free brand sells premixed type. Need to find if other LFS has it but premixed means need to fill up the whole checker with it. Which means the solution won't last very long.

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## Urban Aquaria

Well, whether you do DSM or flooded method... both still have to wait for the plants to grow out. Patience is one of the core requirements of a planted tank keeper.  :Grin: 

Most carpet plants will usually spend the first 1-2 weeks adapting and establishing roots, so there may not be much visible progress in terms of growth on top. Once the roots are established, then they will start growing much faster. 

Do note that in your case, you sprayed excel on the exposed hairgrass during the initial period, which likely caused some damage to the plants, so they might also need extra time to recover too.

Anyways, the main advantage of DSM is that you can blast as much light as you want to speed up growth (go for >14 hours per day for best results), and yet not have to worry about Co2 and algae. If you were to flood the tank, then you will need to pump in lots of CO2, do water changes to control excess nutrients in the water column and tackle algae issues due to the initial low plant density and excess light. Its just more things to take care of.

You can flood the tank at anytime though, just have to manage all those additional factors accordingly.

As for the drop checker, just get the pre-mixed version from the ISTA or Ocean Free brand. You only need to fill the drop checker with around 1ml of indicator solution, not the entire bottle (the drop checkers have very small volumes). Usually i only change the indicator liquid every 5-6 months, or when it evaporates over time. So a 10ml bottle of the pre-mixed indicator solution can last for a few years of usage (i'm still using the first bottle i got).

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## sanjaypills55

Thanks UA for replying.

Yup i agree DSM or flood method, we still have to wait. But once the tank is filled with water & cycled can add fishes, so there is no hurry for the plants to grow compared to DSM where i watch the empty tank every day... ha ha.
Anyway, I am planning to continue for 2 more weeks of DSM, give the hairgrass more time to get their roots in. Meanwhile i will get all the things needed once the tank is filled with water.

Yes the original blades of grass did dry off, i am not really sure if its cause of immersed it ( in the LFS tanks the grass was in submersed state) or it could be cause of spraying excel , like what you mentioned.

Regarding the Drop checker, i think ISTA uses those small plastic ones. Does those have a higher chance of spilling or leaking as compared to the glass type?

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## golfball

Hi sanjaypills, I going through same feeling as you now. I started dsm tank 2 weeks. And now just wait...zzz. Compared to submerse method, this method is totally fuss free at least so far. I am prepared to keep my itchy hands off for 6 weeks. 

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## Urban Aquaria

> Regarding the Drop checker, i think ISTA uses those small plastic ones. Does those have a higher chance of spilling or leaking as compared to the glass type?


The plastic ones work the same, but they have a transparent cap and rubber seal design, so just have to make sure its fixed properly to avoid leaks. 

The single piece glass ones don't have potential issues with rubber seals so they could be considered having less chances of leaks, though if they drop inside the tank, the indicator solution will still spill out, so have to secure them properly with the suction cups.

Another alternative is to look at the hang on glass drop checkers, they hook on the tank glass with the indicator part outside of the tank, these ones will eliminate most issues with leaks or spillage.

Looks like this:



Photo from Google Images.

Can order them from online sites or bought at most LFS. I use them in all my tanks nowadays.  :Well done:

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## sanjaypills55

> Hi sanjaypills, I going through same feeling as you now. I started dsm tank 2 weeks. And now just wait...zzz. Compared to submerse method, this method is totally fuss free at least so far. I am prepared to keep my itchy hands off for 6 weeks. 
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Hi golfball,
Good to know i am not the only one controlling my itchy hands...ha ha
Why not record your experience in a journal, its always nice to share & learn together  :Smile:

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## sanjaypills55

> The plastic ones work the same, but they have a transparent cap and rubber seal design, so just have to make sure its fixed properly to avoid leaks. 
> 
> The single piece glass ones don't have potential issues with rubber seals so they could be considered having less chances of leaks, though if they drop inside the tank, the indicator solution will still spill out, so have to secure them properly with the suction cups.
> 
> Another alternative is to look at the hang on glass drop checkers, they hook on the tank glass with the indicator part outside of the tank, these ones will eliminate most issues with leaks or spillage.
> 
> Looks like this:
> 
> 
> ...


Correct me if i am wrong.
The glass type drop checker looks much bigger, so needs the type of solution where we need to add 4 DKH.
That seems more troublesome. Does our LFS sell 4dkh ?

The premixed solution is used in a smaller plastic type of drop checker.


The hang on type may not be ideal for me since i am planning to use an atomizer & the tiny co2 bubbles (mist) from the lily pipes may give a false reading.

In tank ones can be placed lower away from the flow & mist

I think the ISTA or OF premixed type is better , less variables, more reliable  :Smile:

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## Danny Archer

Congratulations on the set up, very good looking tank you got there. I'm staying in Serangoon area and the LFS near by at Serangoon north does sell the solution. Other than that, I seldom see any at others. That jet drop checker is actually very small, about 5cm Long, check the one from Gush. I use that with a premixed solution, and only change the solution every 1 and half to 2 months.

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## sanjaypills55

Thank Danny
I ordered Ista drop checker from eBay & also ordered a cheap glass checker without the solution. Will try it out once it arrives



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## Urban Aquaria

> Correct me if i am wrong.
> The glass type drop checker looks much bigger, so needs the type of solution where we need to add 4 DKH.
> That seems more troublesome. Does our LFS sell 4dkh ?
> 
> The premixed solution is used in a smaller plastic type of drop checker.


I've used all of those various types of drop checkers and the volume of the indicator sections are around the same, just different shapes. They all still tend to contain the same volume of solution.

Some LFS do sell 4dkh reference solution in bottles, or you can mix it yourself using baking soda + distilled water (need to do some ratio calculations and do mixings like a bartender). Still much easier to just get pre-mixed indicator solution though, the results will be more consistent too, no risk of mixing wrongly.





> The hang on type may not be ideal for me since i am planning to use an atomizer & the tiny co2 bubbles (mist) from the lily pipes may give a false reading.
> 
> In tank ones can be placed lower away from the flow & mist


What i usually do is hang the drop checker on the glass just next to the outflow pipe, that places it right behind the outflow at the top which is the lowest flow area. Thats also the last place any Co2 bubbles or Co2 enriched water will reach too. So it sort of tracks the fully dissolved Co2 levels of the tank at that point. So far that positioning has worked well for all my setups.

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## sanjaypills55

Thanks UA for the tips.
Read your blog, very impressed scaping.
  

Since I have already ordered the in tank drop checker...let me give that a try first.



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## sanjaypills55

Got my co2 checker by mail. 
Tomorrow will flood the tank  :Smile:

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## sanjaypills55

After half a day of setting up, here is the end result

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## sanjaypills55

Disappointed with inline CO2 diffuser  

It's causing a lot of unsightly micro bubbles in my tank. Causing a sprite effect


Now I think should have gone for an external reactor

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## aza

> Disappointed with inline CO2 diffuser  
> 
> It's causing a lot of unsightly micro bubbles in my tank. Causing a sprite effect
> 
> 
> Now I think should have gone for an external reactor


For planted tank, I would rather have and see CO2 micro bubbles than no bubbles at all. Better to be able to see the flow and detect any dead spots to rectify before algae problems set in.

Your water doesn't look clear from previous post. How's your lighting and lighting hours like?

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## sanjaypills55

> For planted tank, I would rather have and see CO2 micro bubbles than no bubbles at all. Better to be able to see the flow and detect any dead spots to rectify before algae problems set in.
> 
> Your water doesn't look clear from previous post. How's your lighting and lighting hours like?


The tank was just filled up yesterday & still cycling...so once the bacteria colony forms the water should look cleaner...
but the with micro bubbles the tank will never look clear.

Isn't dissolved co2 better for the plants than micro bubbles?


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## aza

> The tank was just filled up yesterday & still cycling...so once the bacteria colony forms the water should look cleaner...
> but the with micro bubbles the tank will never look clear.
> 
> Isn't dissolved co2 better for the plants than micro bubbles?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


My understanding is the bubble should hit the leaves for gaseous exchange to occur at the stomatal area at the lower epidermis of the leaves; hence the micro bubble productions of most CO2 diffuser and reactors.

Perhaps you could research more for our communal benefit; there could be several theories as in all things in life.

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## golfball

> Disappointed with inline CO2 diffuser  
> 
> It's causing a lot of unsightly micro bubbles in my tank. Causing a sprite effect
> 
> 
> Now I think should have gone for an external reactor


Hi sanjaypills, I am also not a fan of the in line diffuser as I find the sprite effect almost cloudy. I tried reactor and already gave up due as it gets dirty easily and troublesome to remove and clean. I am now back to glass ceramic diffusers. You can try and see if it works for you. 

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## golfball

> Hi sanjaypills, I am also not a fan of the in line diffuser as I find the sprite effect almost cloudy. I tried reactor and already gave up due as it gets dirty easily and troublesome to remove and clean. I am now back to glass ceramic diffusers. You can try and see if it works for you. 
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Note that reactors will also reduce your filter flow rate somewhat. 

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## hann

It is really up to individual. I prefer inline atomizer as I will be aware immediately if I run out of CO2 or if the solenoid is not turned on. Also I am able to visualize the CO2 is brought to all areas of my tank.

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## sanjaypills55

Thanks for the input guys. Since i already have the inline Co2 Diff-user, will continue to use for now, no choice will just bear with the micro bubbles.

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## sanjaypills55

Tank cycling well..did a 30% change today...looks clearer than before

There is a hint of algae.. But not too bad


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## sanjaypills55

https://youtu.be/o1VP3854eII

All fishes in ..ready before CNY

Wish everyone a Happy Chinese New Year  :Smile:   :Smile: 

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## Halfbeak

Very neat looking tank and the fishes seem happy and active, thanks for sharing the video. 

Are you planning to tie and grow any moss in the driftwood? Looks like it'll make an nice tree


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## sanjaypills55

Thanks Halfbeak for the kind words.
At the moment I am just planning to keep the driftwood bare. Let some algae grow on it, give it a natural look.
In the future maybe consider growing moss on it.

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## Halfbeak

Oh yes, you're right. Algae will a be more natural then those moss trees.
But might take some time until it ages and get some algae growing on the wood. I had a bare driftwood and took about 3 months until I saw algae starting to grow on it giving that aged look.


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## fireblade

help you attached the video...



plants growing nicely...  :Smile: 
the wood is still looking out of place to me.. :P
the betta looks sad being caged...
if you can change the guppies to small fish like neon or cardinal or ember tetra, the tank will look bigger!

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## sanjaypills55

> help you attached the video...
> 
> 
> 
> plants growing nicely... 
> the wood is still looking out of place to me.. 
> the betta looks sad being caged...
> if you can change the guppies to small fish like neon or cardinal or ember tetra, the tank will look bigger!


Thanks Fireblade for your inputs.

Most Betta are kept in small enclosures...this at least gets clearer water..
I indeed to add cherry shrimps, I have read cardinal & shrimps do not make good tank mates.

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## fireblade

Provide hiding place for your shrimps. .. i have shrimps living with tiger barb...

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## sanjaypills55

> Provide hiding place for your shrimps. .. i have shrimps living with tiger barb...


By housing space, you mean more hiding place ?

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## Halfbeak

As tank mates I had cardinals and shrimps which weren't hostile towards the adults but snacked on the fry that were out in the open. And generally the cherry shrimps should have some housing like small crevices or plants to dwell in.


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## fireblade

sorry typo .. should be hiding space  :Smile: 




> By housing space, you mean more hiding place ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## sanjaypills55

I did some trimming today & added more livestock.
3 Rasbora
3 Red Shrimps
2 Red nose Shrimps
3 Ottos
https://youtu.be/kbYP09eENOg

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## fireblade

think you should use the link for public view for youtube inorder to embed them nicely
still think the guppies and betta is an eye sore to the tank.. :P hope you don't mind my frank opinion. 
the most important thing is you like them.

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## sanjaypills55

> think you should use the link for public view for youtube inorder to embed them nicely
> still think the guppies and betta is an eye sore to the tank..  hope you don't mind my frank opinion. 
> the most important thing is you like them.


These is not much privacy settings on YouTube, so not sure how to change it.

Thank you for your honest opinion. Personally I like the guppies & Betta.
They are the only fishes visible from a distance.
   

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## fireblade

add 10 or more Rasbora... maybe ember tetra or cardinal will give the tank a nicer feel.
alternatively, release the betta out for a while.. he will be very happy I think

As for youtube, when I clicked on your link, it directs me to another url
try something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbYP09eENOg

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## fireblade

add 10 or more Rasbora... maybe ember tetra or cardinal will give the tank a nicer feel.
alternatively, release the betta out for a while.. he will be very happy I think

As for youtube, when I clicked on your link, it directs me to another url
try something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbYP09eENOg

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## sanjaypills55

Yup Betta would be happy... & my guppy frys & shrimps would be a happy meal  :Smile:   :Smile: 

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## fireblade

oh...
that will be for sure!  :Very Happy: 



> Yup Betta would be happy... & my guppy frys & shrimps would be a happy meal  
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## sanjaypills55

This weekend bought 10 pcs of Red shrimp & 10pcs of Tiger shrimps


Added a Christmas moss wall
Hopefully spreads out evenly   

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## sanjaypills55

Red shrimps are OK, but the tiger shrimps all died one by one  


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## dapr0digy

nice carpet!

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## sanjaypills55

> nice carpet!


Thanks 

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## Goalkeeper

Where do you buy the tiger shrimps?

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## sanjaypills55

> Where do you buy the tiger shrimps?


I bought from sea view formerly known as Nanayang Aquarium but none of them survived  

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## sanjaypills55

New Addition   

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## sanjaypills55

Hairgrass has turned bit yellow after trimming. The untrimmed areas still look green
I have increased the co2..hope the hairgrass will recover, next time will not do any trimming

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## sanjaypills55

Hellp help...
There are some weed like plants growing between my hair grass..I tried pulling them one by one..but there are too many
I trimmed the hair grass thinking I will get rid of the unwanted plant too..but they seem to be growing even faster than hair grass
Anyone has faced this problem?
Or have a solution?


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## Urban Aquaria

Looks like the hairgrass came with some _Riccia fluitans_ that hitchhiked into your tank. Riccia is a very fast growing plant, while some people use them as plants in certain aquascapes, others find them as pest weeds that tend to tangle up with other plants and crowd them out (like in your case).

Some info on them: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ails.php?id=99

Seems the only way to get rid of them is to just try to manually remove as much of the strands as you can, though its a uphill task. Even just a tiny bit if riccia left will eventually grow out alot again. Usually once you have riccia in a tank, its almost impossible to get rid of it unless you totally restart the tank with new plants.

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## sanjaypills55

Thanks UA for quick reply...yes I have pesky riccia & something similar to riccia...they grow really fast.
Yes I was thinking of restarting but even if I restart..there is always a possibility a small part of it comes in the new tank & the whole thing will start again 

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## fireblade

there seems like having some moss around too?
if you have riccia in other parts of the tank, I don't think you can do much...
try using a brush to remove them... might be easier.

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## fireblade

there seems like having some moss around too?
if you have riccia in other parts of the tank, I don't think you can do much...
try using a brush to remove them... might be easier.

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## golfball

I just hope it's not cladophora algae, which grows v fast, looks like Moss and is not slimy. I had it in my previous tank and failed getting rid of them, finally had to overhaul. 

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## sanjaypills55

This looks a lot like riccia, just most plant like green unlike ricia

Thinking of overhauling...just worried it might grow back in the new tank again...since just a small part is needed to get it transferred to the new tank


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## sanjaypills55

> there seems like having some moss around too?
> if you have riccia in other parts of the tank, I don't think you can do much...
> try using a brush to remove them... might be easier.


I tried removing with hand...they grow faster than I can remove...brush would just uproot all the hair grass...
Might consider restarting...
It's a lot of work to start again...& Doesn't guarantee the riccia/weed doesn't somehow make its way back into the tank

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## torque6

Your Feb photos showed you had a few riccia? on the left side of the tank? Seems it grew alot more in your May photos, left side as well. Or is that a different plant? If it is, you didn't remove it then?


In place of a brush, maybe use a fine comb. Riccia gets entangled between plants and is a nightmare to remove. Even worst than algae seeing numourous comments on various forums. Use a small tube and siphon them out daily if possible. 2FT tank is small and it's easier to manage, plus your tank don't have much hard scape.


If really restarting, What UA means is to use new plants. I believe it is refering to tissue cultures. Tank would need to be cleanse... purge... etc. Clean slate.

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## sanjaypills55

> Your Feb photos showed you had a few riccia? on the left side of the tank? Seems it grew alot more in your May photos, left side as well. Or is that a different plant? If it is, you didn't remove it then?
> 
> 
> In place of a brush, maybe use a fine comb. Riccia gets entangled between plants and is a nightmare to remove. Even worst than algae seeing numourous comments on various forums. Use a small tube and siphon them out daily if possible. 2FT tank is small and it's easier to manage, plus your tank don't have much hard scape.
> 
> 
> If really restarting, What UA means is to use new plants. I believe it is refering to tissue cultures. Tank would need to be cleanse... purge... etc. Clean slate.


Thank torque
These weeds look like riccia, but they are darker than the lime green coloured riccia..& they grow faster than riccia, much faster than I can remove...
If I try to remove too much...all the hair grass comes along with it.
Only solution I can think is restart, with new plants.
Anyone has step by step instructions...do I need to dry my ADA before restarting?
Thanks for all the replies.
Been hell trying to remove the pesky weed
  

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## torque6

Normally is tank hit with BGA, hair algae, BBA etc, chemical war fare then tear down after losing battle. First time I see hobbyist restart because of weed..... 

Instead of restarting, you can lower photo period to sync with lower ferts and co2, then remove the weed daily since now it doesn't grow that fast, unless of course the weed is entangled in the hair grass and is hard to remove.

You can restart if the tank has more than the weed problem. Noticed that your DHG bottom hair all clog with hair algae. Did they recover from the last trim or still stayed brown?

By the way, where did you buy the hair grass from ?

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## sanjaypills55

> Normally is tank hit with BGA, hair algae, BBA etc, chemical war fare then tear down after losing battle. First time I see hobbyist restart because of weed..... 
> 
> Instead of restarting, you can lower photo period to sync with lower ferts and co2, then remove the weed daily since now it doesn't grow that fast, unless of course the weed is entangled in the hair grass and is hard to remove.
> 
> You can restart if the tank has more than the weed problem. Noticed that your DHG bottom hair all clog with hair algae. Did they recover from the last trim or still stayed brown?
> 
> By the way, where did you buy the hair grass from ?


I don't see much hair algae. It's just the weed all between the hair grass...I tried pulling out manually, but I just end up pulling out all the hair grass as well.
Few weeks ago I trimmed all the hair grass hoping I can get all the weed out...the hair grass grew back & the weed grew even faster.
Restarting the tank seems the best option, since nothing else seems to work. 
It's just a lot of work transferring the live stock drying the ADA substrate & replanting new bunch of hair grass

Fyi: I got my hairgrass from That aquarium, Y618. Later I got Christmas moss Matt from nanyang. Not sure where I got the weed from  

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## torque6

> I don't see much hair algae. It's just the weed all between the hair grass...I tried pulling out manually, but I just end up pulling out all the hair grass as well.
> Few weeks ago I trimmed all the hair grass hoping I can get all the weed out...the hair grass grew back & the weed grew even faster.
> Restarting the tank seems the best option, since nothing else seems to work. 
> It's just a lot of work transferring the live stock drying the ADA substrate & replanting new bunch of hair grass
> 
> Fyi: I got my hairgrass from That aquarium, Y618. Later I got Christmas moss Matt from nanyang. Not sure where I got the weed from  
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Drying the ADA substrate is going to be tricky. It may not fully dry up and I believe the weed can also be grown in emersed form. There is also a question of dust settling on the substrate if you air it in the tank and mold if it doesn't dry up fast.

Live stock transferring is more work as oppose to replanting the new hair grass. I think your 2FT tank will fill up in less than 2 months.

By the way, since you have both moss + hair grass in the tank, to eliminate the weed, you probably wouldn't be able to use the Christmas moss as well. Also hot water soak your drift wood while you are at it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

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## jackychun

In fact, my tank got the same kind of weed which I believe it is Ricca flutans. At first, I also tried to get rid of it. 
However, later on, I can see it can create an interesting carpet, which is very natural.  :Grin:  So I just leave it as it is and trim it as I trim carpet grass.  :Smile: 

Somehow, I like seeing the plants compete to each other and see the way it grows. Then I will have better idea for my next scape on what plants to choose.

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## sanjaypills55

Thanks everyone for the suggestions & comments. Yes it's a variation of riccia.
They grow much faster than Hairgrass.

I have restarted the tank.. It was really messy removing the old ADA & drying it...so I just threw it away & bought another 9L bag. Boiled all the hardscape & started with new batch of Hairgrass


It will be dry start again, but I only plan to keep it about 2 weeks till the hair grass takes root.
Will update the progress


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## KopiC

> Thanks everyone for the suggestions & comments. Yes it's a variation of riccia.
> They grow much faster than Hairgrass.
> 
> I have restarted the tank.. It was really messy removing the old ADA & drying it...so I just threw it away & bought another 9L bag. Boiled all the hardscape & started with new batch of Hairgrass
> 
> 
> It will be dry start again, but I only plan to keep it about 2 weeks till the hair grass takes root.
> Will update the progress
> 
> ...


Bro, did u use back the old hairgrass? Did you trim it before planting? What type of Ada u are using? All Powder or mix? All the best for your new set up. Waiting to see a nice green carpet again


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## torque6

> Bro, did u use back the old hairgrass? Did you trim it before planting? What type of Ada u are using? All Powder or mix? All the best for your new set up. Waiting to see a nice green carpet again
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bro Kopi, you do not need to trim the hair grass when planting during DSM or when planting new. You only need to trim if it has already establishes itself and grows too thick.

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## KopiC

> Bro Kopi, you do not need to trim the hair grass when planting during DSM or when planting new. You only need to trim if it has already establishes itself and grows too thick.


Haha. No wonder my hairgrass grow so slow. I follow YouTube and trim them before planting. During dry start, need CO2 also? Or dun even need it?


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## jackychun

> Haha. No wonder my hairgrass grow so slow. I follow YouTube and trim them before planting. During dry start, need CO2 also? Or dun even need it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is plenty of CO2 in the air, so it is not necessary to inject more CO2 during dry start period. 


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## sanjaypills55

I started with new batch of Hairgrass, as the old one maybe contamination with the weed...don't wanna take chances.
I used ADA powder type 9L

Yes I didn't trim the Hairgrass. Once it grows can trim but encourage runners.

I plan to only keep about 2 weeks till the Hairgrass takes root, so they don't float up. I feel the Hairgrass grows quite quickly even if it's submerged state (underwater) if you provide enough fertilizer & Co2.

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## alexbrown

I used to convince my partner to remove rucci fluitans but I read about it and discovered it's benefits here >>>> http://www.fishforums.net/threads/ricca-fluitans.56434/
___________________________________________________________
Towing Fairfax

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## torque6

> I used to convince my partner to remove rucci fluitans but I read about it and discovered it's benefits here >>>> http://www.fishforums.net/threads/ricca-fluitans.56434/
> ___________________________________________________________
> Towing Fairfax


There is only 3 post in that thread and other than the uptake nitrates, there is NO BENEFIT of riccia F, it's a weed for some hobbyist. Just google Riccia Nightmare and you get lots of hits on the internet. 

Floaters and stem plants are better at nitrate uptakes.

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## torque6

> I started with new batch of Hairgrass, as the old one maybe contamination with the weed...don't wanna take chances.
> I used ADA powder type 9L
> 
> Yes I didn't trim the Hairgrass. Once it grows can trim but encourage runners.
> 
> I plan to only keep about 2 weeks till the Hairgrass takes root, so they don't float up. I feel the Hairgrass grows quite quickly even if it's submerged state (underwater) if you provide enough fertilizer & Co2.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Yes they grow fast with medium light intensity (no need high light) with co2 + good ferts + rich substrate.

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## fireblade

I like the way how riccia bubbles..  :Smile: 
hope I can get my hands on some of them again...

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## sanjaypills55

I agree with Torque...
They grow like weed..& once they get entangle with hairgrass...its a nightmare trying to remove them

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## sanjaypills55

After almost 2 weeks, filled the tank with water using airline tube


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## sanjaypills55

Livestock in

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## torque6

> Livestock in


Hello again, are you using hair grass from Tropica?

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## sanjaypills55

Hi
No, just regular Hairgrass from my LFS @Y618

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## torque6

> Hi
> No, just regular Hairgrass from my LFS @Y618
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Oh ok. I thought you were going to get the Tropica tissue cultures (same as mine) to avoid riccia in your HG. No wonder they look different.

Your cardinal tetra looks small in your 2FT tank. Those aren't the usual XL size ones right?

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## sanjaypills55

> Oh ok. I thought you were going to get the Tropica tissue cultures (same as mine) to avoid riccia in your HG. No wonder they look different.
> 
> Your cardinal tetra looks small in your 2FT tank. Those aren't the usual XL size ones right?


Maybe should have used tissue culture to avoid pest plants...

Hopefully the riccia doesn't come back this time  

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## sanjaypills55

Added a Java moss back wall

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## torque6

Photos showing a distinct yellowish green tint. Are you still using the beamswork 6500k Planted 2FT?

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## sanjaypills55

> Photos showing a distinct yellowish green tint. Are you still using the beamswork 6500k Planted 2FT?


Yup same lights 

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## Bullfighter2

like ur idea of using the mesh to create a moss wall. I'm sure ur shrimps love it too




> Added a Java moss back wall

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## sanjaypills55

> like ur idea of using the mesh to create a moss wall. I'm sure ur shrimps love it too


Thanks Bullfighter  :Smile: 

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## sanjaypills55

Lost all my shrimps.
.I think I was in too much hurry to add shrimps
RIP shrimps :-(


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## torque6

> Lost all my shrimps.
> .I think I was in too much hurry to add shrimps
> RIP shrimps :-(
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


The hair grass you are using is the same as Kopi's? They do grow fast compared to Tropica's. The cardinal tetra looks ok though. You used back the old media right? so tank would have been cycled.

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## sanjaypills55

> The hair grass you are using is the same as Kopi's? They do grow fast compared to Tropica's. The cardinal tetra looks ok though. You used back the old media right? so tank would have been cycled.


The grass was bought from my LFS. I trimmed them 10 days ago & they have grown back. They grow quite fast, but still waiting for it to spread horizontally.
Yes the cardinals look fine, but i guess shrimps are more sensitive than fishes. Yes the filter & media was old, but I guess the tank wasn't cycled fully

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## sanjaypills55

Updated pic of my tank 


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## torque6

Long time no update. Hahaha. Good to see the tank now include stem plants.

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## sanjaypills55

> Long time no update. Hahaha. Good to see the tank now include stem plants.


Ha ha... nothing much to report, stay quiet. Yes good to have a mix of hair grass & stem plants :-)

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## torque6

Ya, during setup alot of updates, buy this buy that, post here to show and tell. After everything grow in, doing maintenance then slowly no more update. My tank too, running after 1 year plus no update, hahahaha.

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## sanjaypills55

Ha ha ..so true 
Show us ur recent pix bro :-)

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## torque6

Next month, when I tear down the tank.  :Smile:

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## sanjaypills55

Waiting to see it

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## Heo heo

> Updated pic of my tank 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Very nice.. and I enjoyed reading the process that you went through. Starting on my tank soon, will be such a great help

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## sanjaypills55

> Very nice.. and I enjoyed reading the process that you went through. Starting on my tank soon, will be such a great help


Thanks, it hasn't been a smooth process. But contended the way tank looks at the moment. Do create a thread & share your experiences :-)

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## sanjaypills55

After Trimming


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## torque6

Looks good.

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## sanjaypills55

My 2 ft Hairgrass was looking bad, neglected & with too much algae 
Decided to rescape.
.
The hairgrass literally rolled out like a carpet.


After rescape & overnight.


Changed water & did some planting

Now the most difficult part, waiting for the tank to cycle fully.......

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## fireblade

looks like I need to do that to mine soon....
had removed most of the plants... still thinking what's the best way to clean the gravels...
looks like yours also a lot of dust....

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## sanjaypills55

Sadly, Ada turns to dust over time. Let's see if it settles down or I will have to remove & switch to gravel.

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## fireblade

yes it will settle down but a little stirring will cloud the water again...

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## sanjaypills55

Yeah & I'm not sure if the ADA nutrients have already been used up, if yes..not much would grow or wont grow as goods a before 

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## torque6

> Sadly, Ada turns to dust over time. Let's see if it settles down or I will have to remove & switch to gravel.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk


Depends on the batch of ADA soil. Try and get from Sunpets, they order and replenish their soil for sale frequently.

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## torque6

> Yeah & I'm not sure if the ADA nutrients have already been used up, if yes..not much would grow or wont grow as goods a before 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk


Once you start seeing slow growth or algae on the hair grass means nutrients are already use up. 6-9 months tank setup with hair grass, HC, monte carlo always looks the best. That why people like Fishybusiness always setup their tank 3-4 months before ADA competition. They don't keep tanks like us, 2-3 years type, because they also don't know how to upkeep the tank once nutrients run out.

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## gimhchng

Last time I clean the substrate using laundry bag. Siphon out to the laundry bag and rinse with tank water before put it back. I added DIY root tabs too to replenish the nutrition.

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## sanjaypills55

> Once you start seeing slow growth or algae on the hair grass means nutrients are already use up. 6-9 months tank setup with hair grass, HC, monte carlo always looks the best. That why people like Fishybusiness always setup their tank 3-4 months before ADA competition. They don't keep tanks like us, 2-3 years type, because they also don't know how to upkeep the tank once nutrients run out.


Right, that's why I was thinking of removing the ADA & getting new one, this time maybe regular ADA, powder type is even more expensive.


> Last time I clean the substrate using laundry bag. Siphon out to the laundry bag and rinse with tank water before put it back. I added DIY root tabs too to replenish the nutrition.


Hi gimhchng, 
Did cleaning the dusty ADA work for you?
I believe once ADA is used up it's almost inert, it wont help grow plants.
Root tabs & fertilizers can help in growing plants

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## gimhchng

> Hi gimhchng, 
> Did cleaning the dusty ADA work for you?
> I believe once ADA is used up it's almost inert, it wont help grow plants.
> Root tabs & fertilizers can help in growing plants


The one i clean was the normal ADA (larger granule), not the powder type. It works for me, but quite messy in the toilet when rinsing black dust/powder all over the place, you will lose some % of soil during the process too. Substrate usually have better CEC (Cation exchange capacity) that able to absorb nutrition from root tab and release it slowly. Reuse the soil save cost, but if its small tank, you may want to just buy new. Good article from Dennis for your reference too.
https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/...-overview.html

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## torque6

> The one i clean was the normal ADA (larger granule), not the powder type. It works for me, but quite messy in the toilet when rinsing black dust/powder all over the place, you will lose some % of soil during the process too. Substrate usually have better CEC (Cation exchange capacity) that able to absorb nutrition from root tab and release it slowly. Reuse the soil save cost, but if its small tank, you may want to just buy new. Good article from Dennis for your reference too.
> https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/...-overview.html


Agree with Gimhchng, washing the ADA is going to be messy. Root tabs also won't work as well as a brand new bag of ADA.

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## sanjaypills55

Here we go again!
Restarting my tank with 9L of ADA. This time it is normal ADA. Powder costs much more.Saving costs..ha ha


Hardscaping done. Used the branching wood I bought last week plus some drift wood that was in storage.

Now plants
.
Got some HC, small nana & big grass. Hairgrass & other plants are from previous setup.

It will be 2-3 weeks of Dry Start Method.
My fishes are in a hospital tank, fishes will stay there until the tank is cycled & ready
Now lot of waiting....

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## torque6

> Here we go again!
> Restarting my tank with 9L of ADA. This time it is normal ADA. Powder costs much more.Saving costs..ha ha
> 
> 
> Hardscaping done. Used the branching wood I bought last week plus some drift wood that was in storage.
> 
> Now plants
> .
> Got some HC, small nana & big grass. Hairgrass & other plants are from previous setup.
> ...


Actually can save more, the slope below just add cheap ceramic ring to give it height. UK planted forum, hobbyist use Seachem Matrix for leverage.

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## sanjaypills55

9L ada sufficient for 2 ft tank with rocks to hold the slope, so no point adding other stuff. Let's just hope the plants grow well in the 3 weeks of dry scaping

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## torque6

> 9L ada sufficient for 2 ft tank with rocks to hold the slope, so no point adding other stuff. Let's just hope the plants grow well in the 3 weeks of dry scaping
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk


Already 3rd rescape, more or less same concept. Smooth sailing all the way bro. :Well done:

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## sanjaypills55

My tank silicon leaked & I had to buy a new tank & rescape the tank :-)
Update so far.
Changed canister from ehiem to fluval307,
Rest is all the same

Stay safe everyone !



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## torque6

> My tank silicon leaked & I had to buy a new tank & rescape the tank :-)
> Update so far.
> Changed canister from ehiem to fluval307,
> Rest is all the same
> 
> Stay safe everyone !
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk


Foreground how long planted already? Looking to mature like your previous hair grass lawn?

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## sanjaypills55

> Foreground how long planted already? Looking to mature like your previous hair grass lawn?


1-2 months with mixed plants...unlike previous hair grass lawn 

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## sanjaypills55

This time hair grass doesnt seem to grow well. Possibly because I did only 1 week of dry start or its out competing with other plants mixed together.

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## torque6

> This time hair grass doesnt seem to grow well. Possibly because I did only 1 week of dry start or its out competing with other plants mixed together.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk


DSM hair grass or any foreground plant like MonteCarlo, HC, at least 4-5 weeks dry start in order for it to grow well.

My tank close to 4 years already, even with substrate fert addition, hair grass growth is only so so, pale green color as compared to 6 months when I started the tank.

In my opinion, foreground plants are easy to grow but hard to maintain long term. When I say long term, means more than 6-8 months after starting the tank.

If you look at some of the current advance scapes, foreground plants no longer in use. The separation between mid ground and foreground is now use "sand".

But I still see super lots of newbie on aquascaping facebook trying out iwagumi or scapes using only foreground plants when they haven't even grasp the basics. Hahahaha. Damn funny when I see these posts. Haven't learn to crawl, want to fly already. LOL. 

I always enjoy seeing them whining on facebook when their tanks start to have algae.

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## sanjaypills55

Right, I started with a very beautiful hairgrass lawn my 1st time , but then it all went bad. The ADA loses it newness quickly even with co2 & liquid fertilizers. Hard to sustain the green hairgrass.
Anyway I'm enjoying my mixed plants now.
Wish I could change the title of my thread.


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## reviewcart

Undecided still, but its gotta be the more sensitive species since I have gone to the trouble of doing RO for this tank! Really tempted by Tucanos but theyre still really expensive.

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## sanjaypills55

If anybody interested to know, this is the stuff that cause my 1st setup to fail. It grows really fast & once it gets into the carpet hairgrass, you just can't get rid of it.

https://green-chapter-shop.myshopify...ith-the-plants

I'm currently setting up a new tank, will post when I'm free. Happy CNY everyone.



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## benny

Yeah. I had Utricularia gibba has a hitchhiker in my previous set up too. Didn't think much of it initially, but they became quite a hassle later! Best to nip it in the bud once you discover them.

Looking forward to photos of your new tank Sanjay!

Cheers,

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## |squee|

I have recurring nightmares about those. They break so easily too!

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## sanjaypills55

There will always be some left & it will grow back quickly, only solution is rescape

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