# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  Hair Algae-what's the permanent solution?

## StanChung

Don't know how i got this algae but it seems to come with mosses and fern roots. Once it's in the tank, almost everything gets it.

I've tried removing infected plants and doing 10% bleach dips[30secs] but that only sends it into remission.
Nothing eats it and it grows fast.
The annoying thing is it breaks easily to float and infect wherever it lands.

The only good thing about it is it doesn't damage the plants and it's fairly invisible in wide shots.  :Razz:  

So, since I have excel, peroxide, clorox and phyton git, i'll detail my experiments on my favourite algae.  :Evil: 
Stay tuned!

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## PeterGwee

You need to be unforgiving to this algae and remove all traces of it be it trimming off infected parts of plants or removing the entire plant if you want to get rid of it. Like a lot of algae, they do well once established and grow well like plants in good condition. Killing them off is what you should do and correcting the condition would prevent future inducement.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

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## KeIgO86

> You need to be unforgiving to this algae and remove all traces of it be it trimming off infected parts of plants or removing the entire plant if you want to get rid of it. Like a lot of algae, they do well once established and grow well like plants in good condition. Killing them off is what you should do and correcting the condition would prevent future inducement.
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Gwee


Agreed. They should be removed on sight before their mass reaches a significant size. When they do, they will be spreading like wild fire and will never stop.

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## Jungle-mania

Like what Tom Barr always says, get your nutrient level right. Work for me with my green hair algae.

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## StanChung

Ah! Thanks for the replies.

1. First of all, I suspect my error was keeping marimo balls. There could have been mutation or transfer. The texture of this algae feels like cotton fibre when you pull on it. I have pix from the gallery here...

2. This is a problem that persisted for over a year +. I tolerated it since what could be seen was easy to remove.

3. Quite sure it's got nothing to do with nutrients etc. I always do Brighty K day one and day two step 2 or ECA. WC is regular. Every 7-10 days. Maybe once without CO2 for two days. That's it.

So since I don't want to tolerate it anymore I'll just do a few experiments for the benefit of everybody. [It's making my moss look yuck!] Hate that!

Perhaps somebody's done this before.
BTW, I'm not really sure it's Clado. Have a look.

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## PeterGwee

I would say ADA's line of product dosing is towards the lean side (No NO3 nor PO4? except in the later Step series I think). It's up to your personal view on that but if you feel you can live with that algae, I'm fine with it. :Razz:  Seriously, it either has to be the nutrients or CO2 and since you cannot be sure on both, you have a problem. We can rule out nutrient deficiency by dosing at max uptake rate (EI method) and all that is left is CO2 issue.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

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## StanChung

I would rule out CO2. The plants near diffusor is coated with mist.
This thing is ok for the first few months but it also means all my moss are fit for the bin.
So yes, I'm gonna make an effort to clean it out of the tank. 100%.
Nutrient wise there's occasional GSA on the glass and BBA on the filter out but nothing serious that would stunt plants badly.

BGA is a fine dusting on the white sand last two weeks so that was a clue for me to dose Green Brighty Lights Special.

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## valice

Seems like you are on the full ADA system.
So nutrients can also be ruled out since Green Brighty Lights take care of the NO3 and PO4 that we usually know in the EI system.

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## StanChung

> Agreed. They should be removed on sight before their mass reaches a significant size. When they do, they will be spreading like wild fire and will never stop.



Hmmm the thing is, my tank is so welcoming to this fella that it just loves the conditions in there.
Just a small fragment and it will grow into a bunch in two weeks. grr.




> Like what Tom Barr always says, get your nutrient level right. Work for me with my green hair algae.


Yes, but i believe it doesn't care. No nutrient, it goes on stasis, got nutrient- yay! lovely!  :Twisted Evil:

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## PeterGwee

> Seems like you are on the full ADA system.
> So nutrients can also be ruled out since Green Brighty Lights take care of the NO3 and PO4 that we usually know in the EI system.


How much of NO3 or PO4 is there in the Green Brighty Light series is the issue. Amano's tap water standard is another (is it another source of NO3 or PO4?).

It is hard to convince one if he is confident that he never falls.  :Sad:  

Regards,
Peter Gwee

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## StanChung

I seriously don't think nutrients are the issue and even Tom says they don't compete in a similar race for plants.

If you really want to analyze it, it's like getting a pest that flows and ebbs with the tide. I'm just saying it loves it when I overdose the nutrients ala EI. As I'm only on medium hi lighting 230W 72G for 8 hours, with mostly ferns and mosses it's should be GSA and slow algae overgrown in my tank but they're not.

No I don't have an outbreak. It's just something I'm going to rid of permanently-physically and chemically.[dips]

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## KeIgO86

It doesn't look like claudophora to me. It looks too stringy and soft. Claudophora that I have encountered usually form in rigid tangled messes.

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## valice

> How much of NO3 or PO4 is there in the Green Brighty Light series is the issue. Amano's tap water standard is another (is it another source of NO3 or PO4?).
> 
> It is hard to convince one if he is confident that he never falls.  
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Gwee


Who never falls? Amano? or Tom?

But we all can see the end results of his tank based on the full ADA system. Even for tanks features in the ADA competition. Most of the winners are using the ADA system when it comes to fertilisation.

Remember the ACU people from Hong Kong? Quite a few of them are using the ADA system and we still lush growth. Deficiency?

Can't be that Hong Kong's water also got high NO3 and PO4 right?

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## StanChung

Thanks for the thoughts.

Keig, I really don't think it's clado either. I've got clado in my marimo ball tank. It spreads from the ball. Perhaps it's trying to create another ball? hmmm. I don't have problem with this. My CRS will love it.

Valice, I agree with you that it's a general statement by Tom that the ADA system is on the lean side and it's probably based on what dosage that's written on the packaging.
In the aqua journals, Amano doses a lot of ECA in his tanks, and I think it's incorrect to say ADA system is on the lean side. It really depends on the type of plants and your lighting.

Anyway, mine's mostly shade plants plus med-high lighting and I'm not rich... and I'm only on 8 hours lighting a day  :Smile:

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## StanChung

Ok here's the results of the semifinals of chemicals vs hair algae.

*ADA Phyton Git*-does not kill [after 4 hours]
*Seachem Flourish Excel*-does not kill [after 4 hours]
*Peroxide-H202*-does not kill [after 4 hours]
Only left over 12 hours the HA changed from dark green to medium green.
*Chlorine bleach*-Takes only seconds to kill the fella straight off the bottle! Whitens in minutes and disintegrates! YAY!!!

*Winner is hands down your familiar and cheap household Chlorine Bleach!*

Next step in experiment is to determine exact amount + time to administer lethal dose for plant dips!

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## grey_fox

Really all out to rid the hair algae huh Stan?  :Grin:

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## PeterGwee

Plant tissue damage is more likely and the plant leave would not do much good later either if you dip them in bleach. It would be more of a substrate for algae to attach to since the plant leave is unlikely to recover.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

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## hii

everytime I got hair algae, I reduce the light and do blackout for 2-3 days. It help to reduce hair algea.

I guess we all have to experience something to become more expert. I never have green water for 2 yrs in planted tank and unlucky new setup have this problem after I setup 1 month ++ very sad... :Sad:

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## StanChung

Greyfox-Muahaha! Going mad already so might as well take it out on the hair algae!It's tiresome to comb this fella out every week.

Peter-I'll need to do it together with mosses, ferns etc. so that the approximate dose and dip time can be noted down.
Some tissue damage is expected. It is hoped that the algae be killed to the last cell so that it may not hang on to any leaf, branch or root.[especially ferns] I'm not hopeful for the mosses as I'd expect it to be almost as fragile as the algae.

Hii-Blackout does help if it was infected mosses. friend says he kept his mosses in the fridge for a month and the hair algae was dead but the mosses survived. I've got some infected mosses in the fridge for two weeks already.

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## grey_fox

Hehe Stan, can see you are waging war on the hair algae in your tank. I only had hair algae once, when I first setup my tank. Probably due to an already infected bunch of mosses. Think I've documented this somewhere in the forum when I first joined. 

After clearing up the moss (dumping it all away), going E.I, the growth of the hair algae is minimal, if there is, probably obscure enough to just pick them out. All I know is that once you get hair algae in the moss, getting all of it out will do this to you >>  :Knockout:  

However, something else I've noticed, going low-tech during my wedding preparation/honeymoon trip duration, my tank was literally algae-free, I of course reduced the lights down from 8 T5HO tubes to just 4, I remembered seeing BBA attached to some of the java ferns before going through my rites. I got my dad to help with the feeding of fishes + top up of water but no dosing of fertilization, CO2, or water-change done. When I came back from my honeymoon trip, I found that the tank, although having skinny looking plants and whatever algae that was previously present, had disappeared.

Also it solved my green dust algae problem I had before going low-tech. I've switched back to the "high-tech" end and will have to eyeball the condition.

Now I've got peacock + taiwan moss in my tank and of course, this time, being more careful, will lookout for visible signs of foreign items (algae & bladderwort weed) attached to these mosses/plants that I have before attempting to plant/tie them down.

Looking forward to the next installment of your experiment.

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## benny

> I've got some infected mosses in the fridge for two weeks already.


Hmmm.. interesting concept.. but make sure the family knows it for the tank, not for the dining table!

Cheers,

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## StanChung

Separate fridge of course! Who wants to share space with frozen blood worms!!!

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## Shadow

Cheaper to buy new plants than new fridge

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## StanChung

Where do you hide the worms?  :Grin:  Two fridge and still not enough space.

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## wintor56

Hi Stan,

You havent yet tried one of the best Anti Algae treatments on the market ( in my view), namely eSHa PROTALON-707.This is a Dutch product that is both Fauna and Flora friendly.It states that it is effective against 8 algae species and transitional forms. One pack ( containing bottle A 20ml and bottle B 10ml) will treat 65 gall. I have used it with great sucess.
Your LFS or LFS wholesaler should be able to get it. 
Recently when I had a hair algae outbreak, after I changed my fertilisation regime,I first reduced the algae by treating all my algae infected bogwood, with moss or fissidens, with a 5% bleach solution . I found it was easier to spray it on, using a one pint plant sprayer,leaving for 2 minutes, then rinsing thoroughly before replacing in tank.Found this method to be much easier than soaking large pieces of bogwood in containers with bleach solution. Then Treat tank with eSHa product which is a 7 day treatment plan. Days 4 and 5 - no dosage.
Duckweed was also used for a couple of weeks to remove excessive nutrients in the water.( very useful in removing Ammonium)

Regards,
Des.

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## StanChung

That's great Des, however I don't think it's available here. [any importers hearing this?]  :Smile:

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## Shadow

Does it friendly with shrimp?

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## wintor56

Hi ,
My Amano shrimp were not harmed in any way, in the past when I used this product.
See attached URL for more info. on this and other eSHa products. ( Click on Product name)
http://www.eshalabs.com/products.htm

I removed my Amano shrimp from the Planted tank due to them eating my newly introduced mosses . So now all my different types of shrimp are in a tank of their own. 

Regards,

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## Shadow

doesn't say anything about shrimp though. By the way what is "suspended algae"?

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## wintor56

Hi Shadow,

I think by suspended algae they mean " green water".
What I forgot to state in my previous post was that when I removed my Amanos from my planted tank I replaced them with red cherries which do not eat my moss. So both these varieties have not been harmed in any way. The cherries are multiplying.
I suggest you contact them directly through their contact page if you have any other shrimp queries regarding their product. 

Regards,
Des.

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## StanChung

I'd use the product as a dip rather than in the tank.

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## wintor56

Stan, 

This eSHa protalon 707 treatment is a 7 day treatment course and works safely and slowly, so am quite sure that a dip would not work, unless by "dip" you mean that algae infected items are treated in a different tank. I would still not favour this method as Algal "spores" would still be in the original tank/water. 

Regards,
Des.

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## Shadow

algae spores is everywhere, everytime you add water you add algae spore as well, unless you add cooked water

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## wintor56

Hi,

Yes, you are right, but dont you agree, that the concentration of algae spores is considerably higher in a tank that is already infected with algae;rather than eg. tap water. 
So if you are going to treat the algae with an anti algae treatment, you want to be able to kill as much algae and spores as possible, in the tank which is infected.
The most important thing is not only kill the algae but also to try and find the "cause" of the algae outbreak, so as to prevent another outbreak.
Is it due to:eg.
1) an imbalance of fertilisers
2) an excess of fertiliser elements
3) excess light
4) wrong type of light 
5) not enough quick growing plants
etc. etc. 

Regards,
Des

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## StanChung

It's possible it will come back but treating the whole tank will upset the equilibrium and kill a lot of the good stuff as well so i'm not gonig to do that but rather coincide the dip treament with a major rescape.

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## wintor56

Stan, 

Did I misunderstand?.
Did you mean dip treatment with Bleach solution or dip treatment with eHSa?
This eSHa treatment is designed for using in the tank WITHOUT upsetting the equilibrium.

Please note, that I am in no way connected with this company, just a very happy customer.

Best Regards,

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## StanChung

Please pardon my skepticism Des,  :Smile: 
I've never used an anti-algae product that didn't upset the balance of the tank-whether it was killing the BB-beneficial bacteria or others.
Treating it outside the tank is also for me to check if it's effective against the type of algae i'm combatting.

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## wintor56

Hi Stan,

Theres always a first time !!!!!
You might change your view about upsetting the tank balance, after you have used it. :Exasperated:  
Just quoting from the packaging :-

" Unlike many other algae treatments, Protalon-707 does not harm aquarium plants, it actually helps them grow and is safe for fish and filters"
-"Eliminates all algae"
-"Well tolerated by fish and plants"
-"Eliminates the danger of choosing the wrong treatment"
-"Prevents algae returning and maintains plants"

Note the last point. 

Regards,
Des

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## StanChung

Wow, it seems like a miracle cure Des! Can't wait to get it but wait...I need a a liter of the stuff. lol. See how it goes with a small bottle on my 150 liter tank.  :Grin:

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## StanChung

Hello and back to my experiments.

I made a tub of diluted bleach.
-Approx 400ml clorox + 30 liters of water.
Standby 
- rubber gloves
-hair algae harvested from infested tank.
-separate tub with water anti-clorine to rinse whatever was bleached.
-Got ready a clock with seconds display.

Used a tweezer and pinched some of the hair algae and waved it in the diluted bleach.

25 seconds-start losing it's colour
30 seconds-yellow green
35 seconds-light yellow [this point to be point of no return]
40 seconds-lighter
45-seconds-lighter
1 minute-pale and thouroughly bleached transparent.

So I had mosses and stuff to bleach to test their toughness against bleaching.
Ferns withstood even 1 minute.
Fissidens fontanus badly damaged after 1 minute. [i presume to be lost]
Moss ball- can withstand i minute of bleaching! Done last so may be because of weaker bleach.

In total I bleached 3 branches-[1 ft] of ferns[narrow leaf and bolbitis], about three palms of mosses/gametophytes.
They seem to be fine except for the _Fissidens fontanus_ that started to pale a day after.
Moss ball looks fine despite a minute dip.

Notes: I presume my diluted bleach would be weaker as experiment progessed so i redo the checkpoint test again. [as predicted the time to bleach increased.]

In conclusion,
35seconds-for bath. This point IMHO would be the point that the hair algae can't regenerate-just enough kill power without killing delicate tissues of mosses perhaps.

For yourselves if you're using different brands of bleach, I recommend you do a test as to how long it takes before the algae is dead so that you can determine the point of no return for the algae. Do determine with a small portion of the plant if it can take that amount of time before you dip all your stocks in it!

*Caution + Disclaimer: please take care when using/disposing household bleach. Toxic and burns skin!*

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## blackBRUSHalgae

> Hello and back to my experiments.
> 
> I made a tub of diluted bleach.
> -Approx 400ml clorox + 30 liters of water.
> Standby 
> - rubber gloves
> -hair algae harvested from infested tank.
> -separate tub with water anti-clorine to rinse whatever was bleached.
> -Got ready a clock with seconds display.
> ...



Thanks for doing the experiment and the writeup!!!  :Well done:

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## wintor56

Hi Stan,

What an experiment !!. Must have taken you quite a while.
I have a query, though.
400ml bleach and 30 litres water gives you approx a 1.33% solution. 
Are you sure the qtys you quoted were correct ? or was the bleach extra concentrated?
Did you in fact use 3 litres of water which then gives you approx a 13% solution which IMHO is a bit too strong.
Cannot understand how your 1.33% solution could have killed the algae in a minute, and damaged your Fontanus.
I used a 5% ( 1 part standard bleach to 19 parts water) solution on my Fissidens Fontanus on bogwood for 2 minutes and it came out of the treatment fine. All hair algae was killed.Will try and post a picture.
This 2 minutes however is too long I found , for Echinodoras Tennellus, Echinodoras Quadricostatus and Glossostigma.Will try 1.5 minutes for these species if required in the future. 
I find that the 5% solution works better, than a stronger solution for less time.

Regards,
Des

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## StanChung

Lol, I was squatting all the while! Not long though, slighty less than an hour.

Des, the tub is one of those rectangular storage plastic containers with the snap on lid. It's dimensions are 25x25x50cm ~ 31.5liters. Big enough for me to fit a 1 ft branch full of plants hanging onto it.

The amount of bleach is measured in a measuring jug-400ml.
The bleach bottle says-5.25% sodium hypochlorite.

I noticed the action of moving the plant/algae in the liquid sped up the bleaching process.

Some of the bolbitis are showing some damage, leaves are turning brown. That's normal as bolbitis doesn't like alkaline conditions.

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## StanChung

Des, I had a thought, our water here is softer. Could be the one of the reasons for more kill power.

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## mordrake

Stan, how about spraying the infected plants with hydrogen peroxide? diluted solution can be bought off the shelf from pharmacies.
tried it on BBA and it works. not sure if it works on hair algae though.

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## bclee

IME, yamato shrimps are the best immediate solutions to green hair algae. However, they do munch on some of my plants too.

BC

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## StanChung

Hi Melvin,
I tried peroxide at full dose out of the bottle it took about one day to bleach the hair algae. A bit too long and I would need a lot!

BC, the green hair algae can't be accessed by the shrimp in infected mosses.

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## madness

Use combi of shrimps, otos and kuhli loach... Clears most unwanted stuffs in the most natural way..

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## bclee

Peroxide can kill your moss too.

BC

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## blackBRUSHalgae

I would say those long filamentous greed thread/hair algae is only savoured by Ameca splendens, rosy barbs and maybe molly?

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## blackBRUSHalgae

for those who wants to know more about ameca splendens( hmmm maybe Azmi can bring them in?)

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/ameca-splendens.html

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## Plantbrain

Cladophora is pretty much like Riccia and moss when it comes to contact herbicides/algicides.

You will kill the plant trying to kill this algae and in many cases, the Moss/Liverworts are more sensitive to this and Excel than this particular genus of algae.

It grows pretty well under good plant conditions, because.........well....it's a lot like a higher plant.

I've found bad CO2 sure helps to grow it well.
Some folks have found growing it as a foreground looks pretty nice.
Given it's not much different than moss etc, not a bad idea really.

But not if it's infested your lawn of Gloss etc.
I've found just the old manual method, replanting etc seems to work well. Rosy barbs rip it up, but they will also rip anything else that looks furry.
Amano shrimp do seem to help but this can be hit or miss.

This algae is tough to kill but..........it does not attach to plants really, thus you can prune and toss the plants that have it tangled and remove it that way. Careful cleaning of the plants returned to the tank will resolve the rest.

Clean the filter and pipes etc, anywhere it can get a hold of and grow.
Aggressive pruning is very helpful.
Blackouts are not.

Excel roast several plant species at about the same times as the alga.
I used small cups and dosed the Excel and added both the algae and several plants that get it tangled in the dark for 5 days and observed the effects of dosing the recommended doses on the label and did a complete water change daily and observed each day.

Bad selectivity all the way around so far.
Good CO2, manual removal, Rosy barbs and pruning seem the best methods.

Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## yeoyl87

I quite like the bleach method but the most badly hit is my hair grass.... grrr... pull them all out? Anyone tried Florida Flag fish? 

A most efficient weapon against HAIR ALGAE in your
aquarium. They just LOVE to eat this algae. 
They will even devour hair algae forms that 
Siamese Algae Eaters (SAEs) won't touch. Its
been noted recently that several forms of Bush
Algae will also fall before a FFF onslaught.
The Florida Flag Fish (FFF) also makes short
work of Lemna minor and Wolffiia arrihza; two 
forms of Duck weed. Duckweed is a really
annoying surface plant that spreads rapidly
and blocks light to your aquarium plants.

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## StanChung

Sounds good. Too risky in my shrimp tank though. I have at least 500 cherries.

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## StanChung

Hi Desmond,

I know the answer to why my bleaching seems to be more effective.

Temperature. 
It's warmer here.  :Smile:

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## wintor56

Hi Stan,

What makes you say that?.
A few degrees temp difference should not make that much difference to the total time taken.

Regards,
Des.

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## StanChung

Hi Des,
It's around 29-31C, what's yours like?

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## wasabi8888

As anyone here tried to Florida Flag Fish? I saw these Fishes in Polyart and was wondering whether i should get them.. In Polyart, it's called the American Flag Fish

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## Plantbrain

They are not bad. They bite anything furry, moss, Riccia, algae etc.
Rosy barbs seemed better IME.

But good stable CO2, removal via pruning aggressively, especially plants that trap pieces of detritus and algae is wise.

Amano shrimp in mass help a great deal.
Excel is not that effective.

Excel + 3 day blackout + daily water changes can be effective if you also add aggressive pruning and trimming.

You need to really work harder with this algae to get rid of it because it's more like the regular plants.


Regards, 
Tom Barr

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## beetroot

I have read quite a few threads lately about hobbyists battling with hair algae  :Grin: .
I myself have some in my tank, but nothing major.
Found this [old] thread by Master Stan on an experiment (or battle?) he did  :Well done: .
There are also various useful comments from others  :Mr. Green: .
Thought that we could learn from this...

I find that rocket shrimps (or red nose) also eat hair algae, but do bear in mind that they may eat some of your plants too (eg. moss, myriophyllum, hornwort, cabomba).

Good luck in our war against hair algae!  :Evil:

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