# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  apisto tank setup

## venom

hi all apisto lovers..

as I getting ready to come back to this poison.. I would like to ask about the requirement of setup.
1.) tank size minimum? (intend to use 2ft tank)
2.) ph range? (gonna use soil to buffer ph)
3.) filtration? (thinking of using hang-on filter)

not sure I had miss out any important things.. 
hope you guys will advise and guide me along..
thanks

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Welcome back... I just re-started myself.

1) 2 ft tank - no problem with 1 pair or even 1 male & 2 females
2) make sure got plenty of hiding places (e.g. plants, rocks, driftwood)
3) ph (depends on species) but I put mine at 6-6.5 & lower to 5-5.5 when conditioning fo breeding
4) filteration - if not many fishes, hang-on filter is OK

For your information, I am using the 1 ft GEX tank, put in a cave, 2 pieces of java fern (tied to wood), ada soil & airstone. I put a pair of apistos in each tank with 3 neon or glowlight tetras (as dither fishes). So far, no problem but still waiting for them to breed. Hopefully, with the slight change in weather, it will induce them to breed.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Welcome back... I just re-started myself.

1) 2 ft tank - no problem with 1 pair or even 1 male & 2 females
2) make sure got plenty of hiding places (e.g. plants, rocks, driftwood)
3) ph (depends on species) but I put mine at 6-6.5 & lower to 5-5.5 when conditioning fo breeding
4) filteration - if not many fishes, hang-on filter is OK

For your information, I am using the 1 ft GEX tank, put in a cave, 2 pieces of java fern (tied to wood), ada soil & airstone. I put a pair of apistos in each tank with 3 neon or glowlight tetras (as dither fishes). So far, no problem but still waiting for them to breed. Hopefully, with the slight change in weather, it will induce them to breed.

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## venom

thanks Edwin for the tips.. =)

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## venom

btw.. any gd resource on where to get apisto?

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## EdwinTay

Hi bro Venom

Right now, the only regular source is JZX at AMK 711. But, Stones at Sin Ming is doing pre-order about every 2-3 weeks. Some bros such as Scope also occasionally bring back as a favour. Please try to indicate your interest in the mass order thread (This is important). I find fellow apistos keepers quite helpful & we will give you tips as to sources.

If you have time, read through the Mass Order thread to get a general feel of what we are trying to achieve. Like you, most of us are "desperate" for apistos & find them hard to get. I, myself is hoping to generate real interest among 20-30 hardcore keepers. I believe that with this amount of apistonatics, we will have a critical mass for LFS to start ordering. Also, once most of us get our programs running, perhaps we can start trading among ourselves.

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## venom

I will post there on what apisto I looking..
at the same time.. is it alright to use GEX soil?

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## doppelbanddwarf

Definitely ok to use gex soil but I find that cost wise it is similar. Personally I prefer ada Africana for the lower ph. Everything else as Edwin mentioned.

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## joopsg

I would use sponge filter instead.
1 oto too

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## Misery

For my setup, I find that Ada Africana works best to maintain pH at 5-ish. 

I use "HMF" method of filtration. 
Check it out here, http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...e-a-HMF-Filter

Decorating the tank with wood and rocks will be nice, but I hate it when I cannot see my fishes.

Keep the tank simple, like ferns and caves with substrate will suffice. 

And, welcome back to the hobby!


Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

I went to c328 just now but didn't manage to buy GEX soil.. end up got Ada amonzonia 3L
how long I need to cycle?

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## Misery

I would recommend a minimum of 3-5 days 😂 sometimes I do lesser ..


Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

3-5days enough?

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## joopsg

usually i try 3 days with dither fishes in tank.

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## mer2623

I cycle all my tanks for 2 weeks onwards. And for filtration i used sponge and rokka boy filter. Just check now, my pair of eremnopyge and alenquer swims with a set of new fries... :Smile:

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## Misery

Congrats on the fries bro mer!

venom, do a photo journal for your apisto set up! 


Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

yea sure =)

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## EdwinTay

Hi bro Venom...See, I told you that bros here are quite helpful... NOW...can anyone sell me a male Hongsloi 2,PLEASE!!!!

On a more serious note, to lower ph, I used to apply ph down (the liquid type). While this is a quick solution, I suspect it has artificial chemicals, which I try to minimize. Bro Scope has recommended using Sera peat - with the caveat that it is slow releasing but, potentially very potent. So, if you are not careful & add a lot thinking why the ph has not gone down immediately, you might overdose. My solution is to soak the peat separately in a squirt bottle & squirt a little whenever I do water change.

Also, has anyone used ketapang (Indian Olive) leaves? I used to do that with bettas & I found it does have preventive (diseases) values & surprisingly, does not lower ph.

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## mer2623

Hi Edwin, i just lost my male hongsloi last saturday when i shift him to my 3 ft planted tank, i suspect one of my laetacaras is the culprit..i think bro misery still have a batch of hongsloi.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

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## EdwinTay

hi bro mer2623 - Thanks for yr reply & sorry for yr loss.

Yes, bro Misery passed me some. Bro Misery - I just did some water change - confirm got one sneeker male...and he is beautiful & horny. I am looking for another male to outcross. From talking to other bros & reading, if you want to keep the fish healthy, cannot do more than 3 generations of inbreeding.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I use Ada Africana to keep the ph down. Also have a bag of sera super peat in the canister filter and lots of ketapang leaves in the diplotaenia breeding tank. I've recently added some dried peat moss. The ketapang leaves and peat moss also help to provide hiding places for fry.

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## venom

Day 2 of my 1.5ft setup.
done 80% water change.

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## EdwinTay

wow bro Venom.... looking forward to the big day I see...The only thing missing is the red sticker with the Chinese word for Happiness. You are getting a pair of trifasciatas right? Trifs are relatively small - may not need so big a tank. In fact, would you believe that I put my mamore in an 8 inch tank & they are doing fine - just not breeding...yet.

By the way, from my own experience & talking with others, apistos do not really require much water change. Currently, I am doing 50% change every two weeks or so. In fact, the irony is that they do well in really aged water.

bro Doppelbanddwarf - So much peat, wouldn't yr ph crash? If there is no coral or sand in the tank, the natural tendency is for ph to come down due to the increased presence of organic matter - correct?

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## EdwinTay

wow bro Venom.... looking forward to the big day I see...The only thing missing is the red sticker with the Chinese word for Happiness. You are getting a pair of trifasciatas right? Trifs are relatively small - may not need so big a tank. In fact, would you believe that I put my mamore in an 8 inch tank & they are doing fine - just not breeding...yet.

By the way, from my own experience & talking with others, apistos do not really require much water change. Currently, I am doing 50% change every two weeks or so. In fact, the irony is that they do well in really aged water.

bro Doppelbanddwarf - So much peat, wouldn't yr ph crash? If there is no coral or sand in the tank, the natural tendency is for ph to come down due to the increased presence of organic matter - correct?

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## venom

> wow bro Venom.... looking forward to the big day I see...The only thing missing is the red sticker with the Chinese word for Happiness. You are getting a pair of trifasciatas right? Trifs are relatively small - may not need so big a tank. In fact, would you believe that I put my mamore in an 8 inch tank & they are doing fine - just not breeding...yet.
> 
> By the way, from my own experience & talking with others, apistos do not really require much water change. Currently, I am doing 50% change every two weeks or so. In fact, the irony is that they do well in really aged water.
> 
> bro Doppelbanddwarf - So much peat, wouldn't yr ph crash? If there is no coral or sand in the tank, the natural tendency is for ph to come down due to the increased presence of organic matter - correct?


still a long way to go.
not sure when will the stock be here.
order 1 male 2 female. hopefully no sneaker  :Angel: 

does it be more difficult to maintain water parameter in 8" tank?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

8 inch tank - so far so good..touch wood. But as I said, apistos are surprisingly resilient (you should try albino guppies - die if no water change in 1 week).

By the way, I recommend that you put some plants in yr tank. It helps maintain balance.

Angus (from Stones) mentioned that he will try shipment to be in next Tuesday evening. I already ordered - if confirm on, I will be there Tuesday evening. See you there?

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## venom

i will add plants and hiding cave in the later stage.
hopefully i will be able to get the shipment then maybe can see you there.

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## AQMS

Im camping here to follow the updates.. :Smile:

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## doppelbanddwarf

So far the diplotaenias are doing well. Believe it or not I have 3 pairs in roughly 1.5ft space, heavily planted. The 3 females have been breeding with most the dominant male and one one or another either one of the subdominant ones. I have quite a few fry in there from different batches. The aggression is spread out quite evenly though the dominant female always claim the cave when she is breeding. The whole tank is 2ft though.

I'll be going to stones for the next shipment too! Though I might be quite late may not get to meet you guys.

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## alfredliow316

> wow bro Venom.... looking forward to the big day I see...The only thing missing is the red sticker with the Chinese word for Happiness. You are getting a pair of trifasciatas right? Trifs are relatively small - may not need so big a tank. In fact, would you believe that I put my mamore in an 8 inch tank & they are doing fine - just not breeding...yet.
> 
> By the way, from my own experience & talking with others, apistos do not really require much water change. Currently, I am doing 50% change every two weeks or so. In fact, the irony is that they do well in really aged water.


Bro Edwin,
You've made 3 partition to a 2ft tank? I'm using such tank size for each pair of apistos too. 

I think it's sufficient space if the pair is 'friendly' towards each other. However, I did encounter a few incidents whereby the male/female got killed by its partner.

I think the only way is to put in more hiding place (caves/pots/plants) but that would also mean you see less of your fishes.  :Sad:

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## stormhawk

In the wild, sometimes thousands of them can be found in a small drying pool of water, so having several in cramped conditions are possible, but not conducive for their health. When I last kept them, I changed the water maybe once every 2 weeks or so and they were fine. Adults would spawn like clockwork, especially easy ones like trifasciata, that would churn out a lot of fry. IMO, they seem to prefer sandy bottoms over soil-based substrates. Far easier to control parameters with a bag of peat than to rely on soil that will lose it's efficiency over some time.

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## venom

added plants and hiding caves to tank on day 3.
anywhere i need to improve?

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## EdwinTay

bro alfredliow316 - Yes, I used to do that 3-4 years ago. Actually, the volume of water in each partitioned area is greater than the Gex s tank. However, as the partitioned I used were transparent, the fishes spent time flaring at each other - too stressed. I did consider opaque partitions but I felt that it would make the tanks too dark. Currently, for my Gex s tanks, I am considering keeping 1 male, 2 females. Howver, I am not sure if we can order in this way.

bro Doppelbanddwarf - Did I meet you before? Hope to meet you at Stones. However, Angus has not confirmed the shipment yet. I have kept a lot of types of apistos but NEVER kept diplos - I found them too small.

bro Stormhawk - you are right about the fine sand vs ada soil. In the Romer book, fine sand is recommended. However, it makes the tank heavier and, white sand gets dirty easily.

With rgds to aggressive nature of apistos - to mitigate, add a lot of hiding places - the downside being, like me, cannot see the fish.

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## EdwinTay

bro Venom - good set-up. I suggest the following; 
1. put one of the pots at the other end of the aquarium but, not facing the filter
2. face the holes of the pot away from the front _ cannot see fries but, gives females more sense of security
3. a little more plants - so that the fishes can hide away unseen from each other

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## venom

> bro Venom - good set-up. I suggest the following; 
> 1. put one of the pots at the other end of the aquarium but, not facing the filter
> 2. face the holes of the pot away from the front _ cannot see fries but, gives females more sense of security
> 3. a little more plants - so that the fishes can hide away unseen from each other


thanks for the suggestion bro.
i actually still intend to get some plants like subwassertangs at the base of the soil where the pot opening.. 
will revamp the tank once i found more nicer plant.

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## markvtec2

> thanks for the suggestion bro.
> i actually still intend to get some plants like subwassertangs at the base of the soil where the pot opening.. 
> will revamp the tank once i found more nicer plant.


Add some drift woods and stones will look more natural. Thanks

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## EdwinTay

hi bros

Three important things which are often overlooked;
1. Do not under-estimate the cumulative weight of stones, sand etc. - you will be surprised how much heavier the tank becomes,
2. The more things you add, the less free swimming space for the fish,
3. Dirt & algae will accumulate on them.

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## venom

may not want dw in tank.
wondering if i can keep some cardinal tetras with apisto?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Yes, you can keep cardinals. In fact, it is advisable to keep some dither fish as they liven up the tank. But, do not keep too many (about 10 will do).

For my Gex s tank, I put 3 glowlight tetras in each tank. I wanted to put neon tetras but they die easily. Cardinals I thought were too expensive (18 tanks x 3 cardinals) as they are secondary to my apisto keeping.

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## mer2623

For dither, i'll go for Nannostomus as cardinals seems to be fry predator.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Yes I prefer pencilfishes too for the same reason. My personal favourite is nannostomus eques which is quite affordable and hardy, plus it swims at a quirky angle.
Edwin I met you at Joseph's house quite long ago when I was collecting some diplos and you were collecting guppies.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Venom. For the pots I would advise placing the openings half buried in the soil instead of facing up. Also perhaps you would want to break the line of sight so that there are areas where the pair cannot see each other at all.

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## venom

the pots had hole at the back of it. only can burrow the pot down if needed to

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## yiongcs

> added plants and hiding caves to tank on day 3.
> anywhere i need to improve?


bro, the windelov java fern rhizome shouldn't be buried in the substrate i think. if not will rot and die.. best if tied on DW.

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## venom

> bro, the windelov java fern rhizome shouldn't be buried in the substrate i think. if not will rot and die.. best if tied on DW.


i purposely remove from driftwood!!!
what about the other plant?

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## yiongcs

> i purposely remove from driftwood!!!
> what about the other plant?


haha cannot bury  :Opps:  the other plant is hairgrass? if is hairgrass then can. need other expert double confirm on this  :Grin:

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## venom

> haha cannot bury  the other plant is hairgrass? if is hairgrass then can. need other expert double confirm on this


i also not sure whether it is hairgrass or not.
any suggestion on what type of plants to keep that can planted into the soil?

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## yiongcs

> i also not sure whether it is hairgrass or not.
> any suggestion on what type of plants to keep that can planted into the soil?


maybe Staurogyne repens?  :Surprised:  they should be considered low requirements and can be planted into the soil

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## venom

> maybe Staurogyne repens?  they should be considered low requirements and can be planted into the soil


which lfs can easily find this plants?

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## EdwinTay

hi Bro Doppelbanddwarf - we must meet again. I remembered the diplos but don't remember you - not really interested in the human companion of apistos....lol. Yes, my albino guppies - BIG mistake. With regards to pencil fish (which was what Joseph recommended too), I find them too large. In fact, the glowlights in my Gex S tanks are beginning to look huge. Also, I got a tip from Joseph to put shrimps in the tanks (he says the lavae the apistos eat). I put about 5-6 cheap cherry or Malayan shrimps in each tank - This actually makes the set-up look "more natural"

bro Venom - if you want free standing-java ferns, sometimes Polyart at Clementi has (5 for $4). Their java fern tied-to-wood is the cheapest around town @ $2 each. The plant should be hairgrass but, hair grass is fragile. I suggest for background, you try amazon sword. For the foreground, you can go Petmart - they have a variety of small plants (including dwarf amazon sword) @ reasonable prices.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I have a lot of chain swords in my diplo tank. Echinodorus tenellus. quadricostatus and augustifolia all trying to overrun each other. I think someone here has mentioned that the genus has been changed for these chain swords but I can't recall the new genus name. C328 and Y618 often have stauryogyne. Also java ferns on driftwood are usually perfect for breeding tanks, being rather compact providing lots of hiding space, plus they are hardy as well.

I have zero success with shrimp in apisto tanks. I tried malayan shrimps but the apistos tend to attack them on sight. Even 1cm juvenile apistos are kill the shrimp I placed in the breeder box. Also the low ph does not seem to suit them.

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## Misery

A few years back, when I still have my CRS tank running, all the culls will be buffet for my apistos. 

Maybe I should start a cherry shrimp tank and have constant buffet for my Apisto. Live feed better for conditioning and fattening them 😁


Regards, 
Misery.

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## AQMS

hey venom,i stumble upon this and i remember you are looking for it...
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...urogyne-repens

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## venom

it's being reserved.

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## markvtec2

My setup

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf - I also have some deaths for my shrimps but as I put java ferns, they have enough hiding space. Sometimes, I don't see them but, when I put in algae wafers, they appear. Surprisingly, I have no problem with ph - but that may be because my ph is between 6-6.5.

bro zerofighterx101 - thanks for sharing. Great to see fellow bros helping each other.

bro markvtec2 - SOLID! That's yr panduro right? - the one where the female was ready to drop when you bought it? One suggestion - you might want to get a smalle sponge filter. The bigger one takes up space & spoils the view. In my case, for my Gex s tanks, I just use airstones - works just fine.

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## fhan

> My setup


This is nice one, thanks,

How old the babies, and how many?

What food do you feed?

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## venom

went to buy 5cups of amazon sword.. now the tank look so heavy planted

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## markvtec2

> This is nice one, thanks,
> 
> How old the babies, and how many?
> 
> What food do you feed?


About 20+ fries. Feed decap brine shrimp egg

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## EdwinTay

bro Venom - you are supposed to make the tank look like Amazon river NOT Amazon FOREST

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## venom

> bro Venom - you are supposed to make the tank look like Amazon river NOT Amazon FOREST


hahaha. now it really become a forest.

full tank shot

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## venom

revamp the tank with amazon swords.. pot separated apart and bury deeper ino the soil.





plants and pot look dirty due to movement of soil and dirt floating around and landed on them.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom - I am not an expert but, you might want to group the plants into two areas, leaving one area free (i.e. two forest, one bare ground). This will achieve the following; 1. If the male & females fight, they will each have their corner forests to go to. 2. If you condition yr apistos to feed at the open area, you can see them.

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## venom

thanks for the tips.
since tomorrow morning I going to wc my monster tank..
I think I will revamp the tank again.

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## venom

morning done another 80% wc and revamp the tank.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Nice...but the plant in the middle (I forgot the name) - it needs cooler temperature. Last time I put in my community tank without chiller, it melted. My Brother-in-law has the same plant & it's thriving at 23 degree C.

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## venom

I bought it from lfs.. the tank no chiller at all but still doing well?

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## EdwinTay

Confirm..chop..sure to melt after a while if no chiller. But if got chiller, really thrive. It's supposed to be tied to driftwood or rock.

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## venom

i see. nevermind. if burn then I throw away.

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## yiongcs

the plant in middle is pelia?  :Surprised:  i had no trouble keeping in low light and no chiller or fan tank..

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## venom

it's subwesstang

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## AQMS

subwesstang looks a lot like Pellia, and is often sold as "Round Pellia" due to its resemblance to a rounder version of Pellia. Care is very similar, as it does well in low-light, and needs to be tied down to keep it in place. However, it isn't actually a Liverwort and shouldn't be called Pellia
Here is the link for the plant profile
http://www.aquabotanic.com/?tag=subwassertang

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## apisto31

I believe most of you plants are Amazon Sword, so no matter how you group them, they will soon overrun your tank. This plant grows really big and really fast.
I suggest you just keep 2 stalks, one on both sides. I assumed this is not an SA biotope setup, hence, you might want to opt for Nana or fern tied on driftwood so you can easily move them around without disturbing the substrate much. You may also want to explore on Crypts as they have many varieties to choose from to suits your scape.

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## stormhawk

In most cases, apistos tend to prefer setups with a lot of hiding places. If the tank gets overrun with plants, they will like it. Downside as usual is that you will be unable to spot them most of the time.

markvtec's setup is simple and efficient for breeding and seeing them. 

I agree with apisto31 though, the use of Cryptocorynes would be better for low light setups. Or just use Java Ferns with mosses on driftwood with increased water circulation. Apistos appreciate well-aerated tanks. If you disturb the substrate too much, it will start releasing more "dust" into the water column and delay the cycling phase further.

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## venom

thanks all bro for the kind advices..
I guess my current setup will remain and future new tank will try out more new type of plants..
would like to ask what kind of tankmates will be nice for apisto tank? 
I will be collecting my orders tomorrow evening..

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## stormhawk

I would remove the tetras but keep the Oto. You can try pencilfish. I used to keep mine with lampeyes though.

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## venom

tetras is a nono for apisto?

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## venom

here my apisto which collected today.

male


the trio

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom - you are fast. I went around 6.30 but Angus said that the guy who ordered 1 male & 2 female Trifasciatas had already left! I ordered 1 pair but ended up with 2 pairs! I also got Hoigneis - now conditioning.

With regards to tetras, most bros are afraid that they will prey on the fries. Personally, I prefer NOT to have other fish in the tank but, it seems that it is advantageous to have small fishes as dither fish to liven up the apistos.

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## venom

what? I was still there around 6.30
but wish to leave early as kind of cant stand the smell in his shop.

what you got for yourself?

I hope they will be doing fine together with tetras.
agreed with what you had said, it look dull with only apisto in tank.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom - yes, his doberman & french bulldog smell....& also licked my leg...lol. I must have just missed you because I stopped by at the noodle shop at Upper Thomson to have my dinner.

Aside from 2 pairs of Trifasciatas, I got a pair of Wilhelmi & 2 pairs of Hoigneis.

They will be OK with tetras. My tank is the one feet GEX tank - even smaller than yours. You have to be careful not to overload yr tank (I always make this mistake) & take into account that fishes will grow in size. With regards to type of tetras, actually I prefer neon (cardinal too expensive) as they are small. But, neons die easily so I put glowlight. Unfortunately, glowlight tetras grow quite large. Some of the bros recommend pencil fish - I find them too large.

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## venom

so many pairs you got for yourself.
last night i tried to catch all the tetras but fail. they hide under the plants.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

It's best not to disturb the fish if not necessary because it may stress them out. Put yourself in the place of the fish - suddenly see a big hand or net coming at you!!!

One way of avoiding stressing if you need to catch is to wait till night time, switch off the lights for a while & let the fish sleep. Then switch on the lights & quickly net the sleeping fish.

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## venom

ok. thanks for the advice.
stressing them also stress me as worry will disturb the plants

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## venom

any advice on what should I feed?
currently on tetrabits but only male eating

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## Misery

If you stay near c328, you can have a steady supply of live brine shrimp, if not frozen ones will do just fine, I feed frozen bloodworm and brine shrimp from time to time, and yes all my Apisto will take tetrabits


Regards, 
Misery.

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## EdwinTay

For most optimal in terms of cost, convenience & health of fish, here is what I recommend;
1) feed alternative days - live or frozen, alternate with dry food.
2) For dry food, I bought a $5 package of luohan pellets & pounded them to bits (I calculated cost me 1/4 of price if I were to feed them specialist pellets/ tetrabits)
3) for frozen food, I bought whole styloform boxes of bloodworms, brine shrimps & daphnias (can last for 3-4 months)
4) for live food (many people will disagree) - I buy tubifex worms & soak them (for 1-2 hours) in methylene blue before feeding & also live daphnias. Amazingly, I notice that the tubifex are still alive & peeping out of my ada soil after almost a week. I only buy live food if I happen to come across them
5) I also put about 5-6 Malayan or Cherry shrimps in each tank -their lavae are suppose to be good for apistos

As I have about 18 tanks, this saves me time & money.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I feed a mix of NLS pellets, ANS decap brineshrimp eggs and occasionally Hikari algae wafers.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro doppelbanddwarf - they eat algae wafers? I drop the wafers in, the Malayan shrimps eat. Where to get decap brineshrimp eggs?

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## Misery

Bro Edwin, c328 has them decap bbs eggs.. I believe it is easily attainable at most lfs..


Regards, 
Misery.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Yes Y618 has them too. I raise all my apisto fry on decap bs. For fry especially you have to soak the decap bs for about five mins as they tend to expand when they soak up water. 

The algae wafers are a bit hard. What I do is soak the algae wafers till they are soft and mash them together with the pellets and decap bs eggs.

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## venom

I guess I need to get some frogbits to make my tank not so bright..

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Misery & Doppelbanddwarf - thanks for the info on decap brine shrimp eggs. Currently I do not have a problem there because....NO FRIES.

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## venom

a short video of the tank.
click on it to view.
any sneaker male from the females?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Confirm 2 females. But...in some cases (for some fishes such as Grouper), when the dominant male dies, the alpha female changes sex. I read that some apistos do that too.

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## venom

but the female will not be as nice as the real male.

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## EdwinTay

bro Misery & Doppelbanddwarf - Correction to my earlier posting. Just came back from lunch & saw eggs in my office tank of agassizzi fire. Now must see if they are fertilized. But must go & get decap bs today - to play safe.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Agassizii fire red! Would love to buy some from you if spawning is a success.

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## Misery

Bro venom, congrats on the tank residents!

Agassizi has always been my personal favorite, a sucker for the spade liked tail. 

Haven't had any luck with my agassizi tefe, hopefully my agassizi flamenco will be ready for spawning soon 😁


Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

show some picture of your tefe

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## Misery

I will try to snap some photos later, my tank is infested with algae 😂


Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

quite worry about my females.. they did not want to eat FBW and tetrabits that I fed

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## Misery

I guess they're still trying to settle down, are they actively swimming or just lying low at the substrates ?


Regards, 
Misery.

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## Misery

ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21366893346.737065.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk 21366893364.586327.jpg
My male and female aga. Tefe..

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## venom

active swimming..

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf - akang datang for the aga fire - don't even know if fertile.

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## EdwinTay

Too good to be true - This morning, went to office - did not see any eggs..sob! Saw the male hovering around the area where the eggs were. I suspect that the eggs were not fertile.

However, both male & female are acting strangely.

BTW, anyone knows how long it takes for eggs to hatch.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Roughly a week to hatch. Quite often the first spawn does not work out. If the female is still in breeding dress though she might have moved the eggs to another place.

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## EdwinTay

thanks bro Doppelbanddwarf - I suspect that the eggs were not fertilised anyway. I hope for more success from the rest of my fishes as it's beginning to rain - which should prompt mating.

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## Misery

Fluctuating the temperature and water level might help them to get into mood, but too much work I think haha!

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## EdwinTay

Unfortunately, fluctuating temperature & water conditions do not work on my missus. Diamonds & flowers work however!!!

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## venom

sad that 1 of my female die..
have revamp the tank again

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## doppelbanddwarf

Any indication of how you lost the female?

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## venom

the female did not eat since the day i got them.
but i somehow realise the female mouth look difference from the others.
the mouth always at "o" shape

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## doppelbanddwarf

Could be injury from lip locking with the other apistos.

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## venom

poor fellow.
now i left with a pair. hopefully they will pair up soon

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## fhan

Open mouth heavy breathing also indicate bloat bro

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## venom

bloat in term of eating too full?
from my observation, the dead female did not eat since the day i got it.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

You can contact the Guiness Book of Records - you have the first case of fish dying of anorexia.

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## venom

i suspect that it is not that case.
during my feeding, the female actually looking at the food but even the food sink in front of her, she did not eat.
i suspect it got infection or something as the mouth is totally unusual compare to other female.

now my male keep disturbing the female till the female had tore tail.

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## stormhawk

The O shaped mouth is a deformity caused by genetic problem or a disease. There are many instances of farm bred fish that show physical deformities. I saw for myself, a short bodied agassizii Tefe male at C328 once. The O-shaped mouth is found in the blood parrot, which is in itself, a hybrid fish.

If your fish did not eat, then it was suffering from a combination of genetic problems and disease. Wasting disease is caused by internal parasites, that may have been caused by the food they were eating, or contracted from other fish when kept at the LFS or farm. It is not anorexia, but occurs frequently in some fish. I have had guppies and killies waste away in the past, and it was not due to them starving to death, but rather being unable to eat and slowly waste away until death.

The use of an internal bacterial remedy may help in some cases, but some fish are too far beyond help.

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

I was just joking about anorexia.

Agreed with bro Stormhawk about genetic deformities. A large part is due to in-breeding. From what I know, 3 generations of in-breeding is the maximum before faults beginning to appear. However, I think I read in the Romer book that for apistos, it's 12-13 generations.

Wasting disease is probably a sign of internal problems, as bro Stormhawk said. Unfortunately, it's very hard to detect & even harder to cure.

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## stormhawk

The way to detect wasting disease is fairly straightforward. Look at the fish that refuse to feed and then take a look at the belly. Slightly sunken would mean that they are suffering from this disease. If treated early, most will recover, but I tend to find that once it occurs, they are usually goners.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Stormhawk

Apologies, you are right. What I meant to say is that once the symptoms appear, it's usually too late. Like stage 4 cancer.

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## venom

am wondering can we keep betta with apisto?

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## EdwinTay

hi Venom

Never tried but the answer should be NO - because the apistos may bite the betta fin.

With regards to the water parameters, should not be a problem as they are both low ph fishes. BTW, I just changed water over the weekend & put in some ketapang leave extract - I think the apistos like it.

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## venom

i seen apisto caca and betta flare at each other before but did not really fight

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## venom

may i ask a question.
when the female ready to breed/mate, is there any protruding thing at the bottom?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Don't really know about the protruding thing. But 100% sure female will turn very yellow (esp. for trifasciata)

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## stormhawk

Yes, the ovipositor will appear as a short nub, much like angelfish. However, since they're small, not easy to see. As Edwin said, the best indicator would be the brood coloration that the females take on. Other than being yellow, their pelvic fins will take on a different pattern.

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## venom

so far from what i observe.. it have this thing protruding out and yellowish body.. the female keep go in and out of cave.. is this a sign?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

You may be a father already...

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## venom

hopefully, so far i yet to see any fries..

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## venom

happy to announce that my trifa have their baby.. 5 fries only though..

female guarding the babies. can't see much from pic but can see how yellowish the female is.


the father

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## Nec

Nice tank and fish

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## venom

haha.. thanks... they will be moving to a new bigger tank soon..

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## shkeepers

Hi pls whatapp me at 97616927 regarding the eheim 2217. Thanks

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