# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  Growing Hemianthus callitrichoides (HC)

## luenny

Hi all,
I am thinking of growing HC in my small office tank. It will be a Non-CO2 tank with ADA Amazonia soil and lights (still have not decide how much lights yet). Anybody experience growing HC in non-CO2 environment before? Is it do able?

By the way, does anybody know where to get submersed HC? Or should I just get the emersed form instead since it is so easily available in LFS? I know it takes longer to get establish. Any advice on this from experts here?

Thanks.

- Luenny

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## oblivion

> Hi all,
> I am thinking of growing HC in my small office tank. It will be a Non-CO2 tank with ADA Amazonia soil and lights (still have not decide how much lights yet). Anybody experience growing HC in non-CO2 environment before? Is it do able?
> 
> By the way, does anybody know where to get submersed HC? Or should I just get the emersed form instead since it is so easily available in LFS? I know it takes longer to get establish. Any advice on this from experts here?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - Luenny


they usually don;t do too well with insufficient lights ==> won't carpet and creep well
so no co2 + not as much lights ==> not sure the hc will creep nicely

theres a few guys selling submersed hc -- broadcast around the marketplace you might get some responses
i got mine from a bro too

n if you buy emersed form, should let it float for some time in the tank for them to convert 1st before planting ==> saves you hell alot of effort later on

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## luenny

Hi Lee1224,
Thanks for the reply. Ok, I will broadcast on marketplace when I am setting up my office tank. Oh, it needs high light is it? Hmm ... let me see what I can do about that. Thanks again.

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## inimicus

Hi there

just wondering if you had a chance to set up your non CO2 HC tank yet.

Any updates?

Keen to know cause thinking of trying out too.

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## williamng

Hi

HC require strong lights, CO2 and cool water. I spoken to richard (Colorful aquarium), he mention cooling water is the most important for HC. Well, personally i tried twice with strong lights and high CO2 injection but fail. Guess he should be correct as I have seen him growing HC in his aquarium

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## alechim

you are right about cooling water, my HC in my office are grown in temp of 24 degrees C, 72watts of light and 3bps CO2. They are growing quite well and pearling too. But partially I think the reason is I got it submerse from colourful, my friend who got his emerse had his HC melted within 2-3 weeks

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## berlinjs

emerse are those selling in lfs but l saw some lfs let HC float on top of tank water level, is this consider submerse?
Or do we just buy from lfs and just let it float and as time goes by it sink naturally?

sorry for sounding stupid :Embarassed:

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## alechim

floating are the emerse, submerse = submerge = planted in substrate

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## EvolutionZ

i personally have bought emmersed HC from c328. my tank temp is hovering around 28C daily.. high lighting with co2 and ferts dosage.. HC changed from emmersed to submersed with only 10 - 20&#37; of the HC melted.. and started creeping at quite a fast rate after 1 - 2weeks of planting..
i feel that HC growing is based on luck.. so bros try alot times but still fail.. while some like me.. first time try and manage to get it creeping =)

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## williamng

Great job evolution! I am one of those who tried and fail. I think I am going to have another shot for my new setup!

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## freddiewee

hey hey, very lucky for those who managed to grow them. i bought some HC recently and some are melting  :Sad:  im not sure if the shop keeper took the emersed hc then just tie to a rock and sell and tt i submerged it. right now i have 2.4 wpg which i doubt is enough to grow hc... maybe thats why its melting  :Flame: 

cheers!

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## Jervis

Just wondering... are all these HC?



Those tiny roots growing downwards... are those signs of creeping?

Thanks!

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## alpay

> Just wondering... are all these HC?
> 
> 
> 
> Those tiny roots growing downwards... are those signs of creeping?
> 
> Thanks!



yes these are HC. mine look exactly the same  :Smile:

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## eviltrain

> Just wondering... are all these HC?
> 
> 
> 
> Those tiny roots growing downwards... are those signs of creeping?
> 
> Thanks!


the roots are growing downwards because it needs to hold them self into the soil. try to weigh them down with lead plant weights. if not those under the " canopy " will start to rot due to lack of lights

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## madnugget

haha its a post 2 years ago.. anyway some parts of my HC have such problems too.. yea maybe i should weigh them down so they can grab the soil..

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## cydaph

Haha! No problem madnugget, I'm sure somehow it will benefit other members of this forum if they have question about HC. My experience with Hc was that I did the Dry start method, I let them grow for a month . They grew very fast using my 24x4watts t5 lighting. My only mistake is that I did'nt plant them properly. So after I watered the tank, most of them floated on the surface. Also, one third of my HC melted because I introduced my DIY CO2 a week later. After that start to grow again but upwards instead of spreading... MY temp hovers around 29-30 deg.

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## madnugget

haha i'm using 24x4w too, but i did straight submerge, initially due to water conditions, all melted. later i added new batch in and it survived =) mine rarely grow upwards temperature same as yours too..

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## Wahlin

Personally my HC need cooler temperature to grow well. They never make it with temperature above 28 DegC at home.

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## kimchi

My HC melt everyday. Probably i put too much sand & HC roots are too short?

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## kimchi

How to make HC spread instead growing upward? I have 3 inches of sand on top of fertilizer on a 4-ft tank with CO2 tank & room temperature without chiller. Bot them from shop & plant them without the cotton as anchor. How to do last minute salvage?

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## Shadow

I do not think water temperature matter too much, as long as below 30 C should be ok. I grow HC couple of time but normally either in the office with 24 hrs air condition or at home with chiller. I also grow them emerse before, and I notice on the emerse setup, the temperature inside the enclosed tank is as high as 32-33 C. Thus HC do able to grow in higher temperature 

Recently I try growing them in without chiller and fan, temperature roughly 29-30 C and they do grow well. I believe the key is lots of CO2.

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## Wahlin

> I do not think water temperature matter too much, as long as below 30 C should be ok. I grow HC couple of time but normally either in the office with 24 hrs air condition or at home with chiller. I also grow them emerse before, and I notice on the emerse setup, the temperature inside the enclosed tank is as high as 32-33 C. Thus HC do able to grow in higher temperature 
> 
> Recently I try growing them in without chiller and fan, temperature roughly 29-30 C and they do grow well. I believe the key is lots of CO2.


From what you tell me, it looks like I got to try on them again without chiller.

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## Shadow

For me, to grow HC need rich substrate like ADA Aquasoil will help and plenty of CO2.

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## dkk08

> I do not think water temperature matter too much, as long as below 30 C should be ok. I grow HC couple of time but normally either in the office with 24 hrs air condition or at home with chiller. I also grow them emerse before, and I notice on the emerse setup, the temperature inside the enclosed tank is as high as 32-33 C. Thus HC do able to grow in higher temperature 
> 
> Recently I try growing them in without chiller and fan, temperature roughly 29-30 C and they do grow well. I believe the key is lots of CO2.


Hi Robert, 

with regards to HC grown emersed, how to supply lots of CO2 when we want to grow it emersed?

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## Shadow

emerse no need to supply CO2, there are lots of CO2 in the atmosphere. What you need is to keep them moisture and don't fill too much water. I use cling wrap to cover the top.

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## cydaph

No, need to add CO2 if your growing it emersed because the air is already filled with oxygen and Co2 , Just cover your tank with transparent plastic and have your light turn on for 8 hrs. That should do the trick. Tom barr's Dry start method really works :Well done: . 

I agree with shadow, when I did the emersed method, my tank temp. is also 30-32 deg.

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## cydaph

haha, shadow very fast to reply! made my feedback redundant. :Well done:

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## dkk08

> haha, shadow very fast to reply! made my feedback redundant.


its not redundant bro cydaph, it shows effort and knowledge  :Wink: 

thank you Robert and bro cydaph... am going to embark on more emersed experiements  :Grin:

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## zonkkie

Silly question to those who grow HC emmerse and cling wrap. How do you manage the lights? Most lights needs to be attached to the sides of the tanks, so you wrap the lights together with the tank?  :Confused:

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## Shadow

No need to wrap the light. just place the light on top of the wrap, it may cut the wrap a bit but does not matter. It does not need to be air tight.

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## zonkkie

Ok, thanks! I thought need to be airtight for the greenhouse effect.

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## cydaph

Good luck in your experiments. I'm doing some experiments too. Actually, I've tried growing HC wraped with net on a lava rocks (submerged). My first attempt was'nt successful. Only 5% manage to survived and grow a bit but eventually died. Anyway, I'm only using seachem excell and 18 watts for this experiment. Tank size 46cmx 36cmx36cm.

Some of the mistakes I did:
- Introduce shrimps a week after. (they'd dug my remaining 5% HC) :Flame: 
- Use direct tap water to fill my tank and then add anti-chlorine later. Is this true? I did it twice. 1st on my Dry Start and here is the 2nd time. Both melted my HC. That's why i'm not going to do it again. :Opps: 

- I wraped the net very tight on the HC.

I'm planning to do it again and my instinct tells me that I do it emersed. :Confused: 
Maybe some experts can enlighten me with these issues. Thanks.

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## eviltrain

I actually pick up some HC which was floating on my 40cm tank, got a ferrero rocher 16's box, put some left over GEX soil ( around 1 cm thickness ) in the box. place the HC on to the gex soil ( added tank water just covering the GEX soil ) and cover it with the box cover. I just leave the whole thing where sun can be shone on it (possible, not the whole day)

i did this one week back and manage to see some new leaves sprouting. maybe 3-6 months later i will get a lush emerse HC lawn to just plant in my tank ( hint - new project ).

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## cydaph

> Ok, thanks! I thought need to be airtight for the greenhouse effect.


As long as there is moist it'll be ok. Just don't let the mosquito get inside. Mine had some insects that managed to get in. Lucky It's not a mosqiuto. :Jump for joy: 
Cheers.

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## cydaph

> I actually pick up some HC which was floating on my 40cm tank, got a ferrero rocher 16's box, put some left over GEX soil ( around 1 cm thickness ) in the box. place the HC on to the gex soil ( added tank water just covering the GEX soil ) and cover it with the box cover. I just leave the whole thing where sun can be shone on it (possible, not the whole day)
> 
> i did this one week back and manage to see some new leaves sprouting. maybe 3-6 months later i will get a lush emerse HC lawn to just plant in my tank ( hint - new project ).


Hi Eviltrain, it makes me want to buy HC tonight and do it again, I tried that also but mine got BURNED :Flame:  :Exasperated: . (Hint Direct sunlight exposure) How long is your sunlight exposure?

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## eviltrain

> Hi Eviltrain, it makes me want to buy HC tonight and do it again, I tried that also but mine got BURNED. (Hint Direct sunlight exposure) How long is your sunlight exposure?


haha, its like just morning sun to 11am?

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## nutz

> I do not think water temperature matter too much, as long as below 30 C should be ok. I grow HC couple of time but normally either in the office with 24 hrs air condition or at home with chiller. I also grow them emerse before, and I notice on the emerse setup, the temperature inside the enclosed tank is as high as 32-33 C. Thus HC do able to grow in higher temperature 
> 
> Recently I try growing them in without chiller and fan, temperature roughly 29-30 C and they do grow well. I believe the key is lots of CO2.



I tried growing HC many times for my 4x2x2 tank but all failed  :Exasperated: 

I was on a 9hr T5 324W lighting regime with a 2hr sieasta break in between. The temperature hovered between 26-29 with fan. 

CO2 injection is ~4bps with ph 6.5-6.7. NKP fertilisation twice a week and Seachem Flourish twice a week. 

Maybe it is the inert sandbed or the shrimps/SAEs that are disturbing the HC ...

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## oisterdude

Would using the DSM with clear wrap coupled with MH lighting be too hot inside the tank? Anyone seen those HC sold at colorful recently? It is on Stainless steel meshes. I wonder if those are submerged HC or just fresh tied from emerged form.

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## eviltrain

i bought them before. they are grown submerge form. just buy and put in your tank. no rotting ( unless your tank water doesn't meet the HC requirements )

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## oisterdude

OK thanks mate :Smile:  I will buy and try. double dose with compressed CO2 and Excel since looking at past posts suggest usually they melt due to insufficient CO2. Cheers

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## madnugget

> Would using the DSM with clear wrap coupled with MH lighting be too hot inside the tank? Anyone seen those HC sold at colorful recently? It is on Stainless steel meshes. I wonder if those are submerged HC or just fresh tied from emerged form.


colourful's HC is the best i have seen so far =) but do expect a bit changes after planting in your tank if you are not using chiller

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## Wahlin

I had tried alot of methods on planting HC. Namely : with aircon, without aircon, dry start, direct into existing tank with water, on drift wood, on lava rock, plant in disposable food container under full sun with lid, plant in disposable food container in bright outdoor without lid etc. Honestly saying very enjoyable. Attached are the progress of dry start ...

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## Wahlin

And submerge method ...

Last I would like to try is to plant with water temperature between 28-30 DegC at home again which I failed before.

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## Wahlin

Oh another one, this is done without aircon ... 216W of PL light on 3ft tanks  :Wink: .

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## ahkiatz

Am i doing it correctly?

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## eviltrain

my way :Grin: 



just any transparent container, left over soil ( gex or ada or any other soil with nutrients about 1 cm thick ). some tank water which just cover the soil. and just put it where it get sunlights ( around 4-6 hours is enough ). forget and let them grow. 

just 2 weeks outside

-enjoy growing-

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## KWL

You have beautiful HC lawn. You also grow fern emerse in your 3ft tank  :Smile:

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## cydaph

> I had tried alot of methods on planting HC. Namely : with aircon, without aircon, dry start, direct into existing tank with water, on drift wood, on lava rock, plant in disposable food container under full sun with lid, plant in disposable food container in bright outdoor without lid etc. Honestly saying very enjoyable. Attached are the progress of dry start ...


Hi Wahlin...How did you managed to grow your HC on lava rocks. Is it submerged or emerse? Was it successfull? any advice would appreciated because I'll be doing it for the 2nd time as my 1st attempt failed. Thanks. :Jump for joy:

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## cydaph

> Am i doing it correctly?


Looks ok to me. I see moist indise the tank. :Grin:

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## cydaph

> my way
> 
> 
> 
> just any transparent container, left over soil ( gex or ada or any other soil with nutrients about 1 cm thick ). some tank water which just cover the soil. and just put it where it get sunlights ( around 4-6 hours is enough ). forget and let them grow. 
> 
> just 2 weeks outside
> 
> -enjoy growing-


NIce :Well done:

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## zonkkie

Colourful's HC people just throw in the tank? I thought better to remove from the wire mesh and grow on the substrate. 

Eviltrain - I'll trade one box of Rocher with yours!  :Smile:

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## reveru

i bought emersed HC patch from LFS and grew them submersed in my 2 ft tank. fortunately there was no problem growing them. i cut the patch into small squares (approx 1x1cm) and planted them directly into the substrate. within 2 weeks, the HC was spreading runners. the 1st week about 5% melted due to transition from emerse to submerse. i personally feel that the success i had was lots of CO2 injection during the initial period. however, although my HC is spreading, they have yet to grow into a thick and lush lawn.  :Exasperated: 

any tips on how HC can grow faster?

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## Shadow

My experience with HC, they grow slow initially. The grow with pick up after 1st month nut it will not be as fast as stem plant where you need to trim every week  :Wink:

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## Wahlin

> Hi Wahlin...How did you managed to grow your HC on lava rocks. Is it submerged or emerse? Was it successfull? any advice would appreciated because I'll be doing it for the 2nd time as my 1st attempt failed. Thanks.


Just tie them lightly with fine thread and I grow them submerge. Doing ok but not to what I want. The key success is to have CO2, lot of light, fert. Cold water is much much easier.

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## eviltrain

> Colourful's HC people just throw in the tank? I thought better to remove from the wire mesh and grow on the substrate. 
> 
> Eviltrain - I'll trade one box of Rocher with yours!


LOL, when can deal, location?

the wire mesh is actually stainless steel mesh, so there's no problem placing it inside your tank.

actually i have 2 more Rocher box. maybe i will start my HC farm soon. hahaha. :Grin:

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## dkk08

more poison  :Evil: 

anyone has any data on the speed of growth for emersed and submersed HC? 

this question might seem out of topic but I really don't know where to ask... if I'm using a sump system for my tanks and I want to inject CO2, should the CO2 be inject into the sump or straight into the tank itself?  :Huh?:

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## cydaph

> Just tie them lightly with fine thread and I grow them submerge. Doing ok but not to what I want. The key success is to have CO2, lot of light, fert. Cold water is much much easier.


 I see, thanks for the advice!! :Grin:

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## eviltrain

i guess the speed of HC growing emersed will be much faster, lesser maintence needed also.
as for the CO2 injection, i'm no where that expert to answer.  :Grin:

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## Shadow

> more poison 
> 
> anyone has any data on the speed of growth for emersed and submersed HC? 
> 
> this question might seem out of topic but I really don't know where to ask... if I'm using a sump system for my tanks and I want to inject CO2, should the CO2 be inject into the sump or straight into the tank itself?


maybe should post at equipment section  :Wink:  I have no power to move from this section ;P

anyway, you should pump at the tank. Sump tank normally will have lots of movement which will release CO2 to atmosphere, so inject more  :Grin: 

Below are the Amano giant tank sump look like. as you can see from the 1st picture, the surface is pretty much still

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## ahkiatz

Some of my hc started to grow tall. Is it normal?

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## blue33

It all depends on the person. For me i can grow both. But if your scape is up and running then submmersed would be the only choice and dont forget you need time for new setup to cycle through. For me i cut short the time and do all in submerge. As for sump, then it would be advice to inject your CO2 near to the pump where it inject into the tank, that way the pump rotor blade will chop the CO2 to more even more finer CO2. 




> more poison 
> 
> anyone has any data on the speed of growth for emersed and submersed HC? 
> 
> this question might seem out of topic but I really don't know where to ask... if I'm using a sump system for my tanks and I want to inject CO2, should the CO2 be inject into the sump or straight into the tank itself?

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## reveru

*FuzzieFishes*: if i'm not wrong, HC growing tall means not enough light intensity. what is your setup like?

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## blue33

There are times some HC would grow tall, but they dont look like HC but rather they look like HM, i believe this is a mix of HC with HM when they produce locally. But i ever saw a thread at another forum that a guy grew tall HC with very low light and without much caring and the temperature was way very cold, initially was short HC. Just remove those that grow tall will do.

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## ahkiatz

> Am i doing it correctly?


Reveru, this is my set up.

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## dkk08

> It all depends on the person. For me i can grow both. But if your scape is up and running then submmersed would be the only choice and dont forget you need time for new setup to cycle through. For me i cut short the time and do all in submerge. As for sump, then it would be advice to inject your CO2 near to the pump where it inject into the tank, that way the pump rotor blade will chop the CO2 to more even more finer CO2.


very insightful!  :Well done:  Thanks Adrian!

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## reveru

> There are times some HC would grow tall, but they dont look like HC but rather they look like HM, i believe this is a mix of HC with HM when they produce locally. But i ever saw a thread at another forum that a guy grew tall HC with very low light and without much caring and the temperature was way very cold, initially was short HC. Just remove those that grow tall will do.


i noticed this phenomenon in my tank. i have high light in my tank and approximately 5% of the HC in my tank started to sprout leaves that are EXACTLY like HM (note that i actually HAVE HM planted in my tank so i can directly compare them). these weird sprouts actually grow tall even though there is high light initially, but after approx 2 weeks, they started to "fall" down themselves and starting sprouting roots and HC shoots. kinda weird with the mix of HC and HM leaves. i think that it is not a mix of HC and HM as i can trace the weird sprouts to connect to HC patch. and the strange thing is that the same stems having the weird sprouts can also sprout the normal HC leaves!

anyone have similar experience?  :Exasperated:

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## Shadow

yes you can grow it emerse, Actually it is emerse when you bought from LFS. The emerse leaf is round and shorter.

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## zonkkie

Those emmersed HC that we buy from LFS i.e. C328, usually grow on sponge and not pots. We can just cut into like 1cm x 1cm pieces and plant directly into the soil right? No need to pull or trim the sponge or anything. The Tropica video advice to leave 1cm of rock wool as anchor and those from LFS are already 1cm.

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## Shadow

there is major different between Tropica plants and the plants that sell locally. Tropica plant is 100% free of soil or other contaminant like snail etc. It is their regulation. On the other hand the plant that sell at LFS is far from clean. If you plug it out, you will see many thing, sand, small white tinggy which I thing it is a fert, snail, etc.

Yes the Tropica method can work but then you will risk contaminate your tank. I prefered to little bit work in the begining rather than trying to solve problem due to contamination.

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## bigfthing

Hope i'm not too late for this thread! I am growing HC in my 4ft tank now(start yesterday) with the dry start method. Can anyone clarify on after say 2months when they are fully grown, we can start to flood them with water and provide lots of co2 like 5bps or so. How long do we have to maintain this high co2 for? As long as we want to keep growing the HC or we can actually lower the co2 intially? Also the T5 lights that i got was 4x54w 4ft, do you all think its too bright? Also 8 hrs?

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## eviltrain

well, you got to resist the temptation to flood your tank first, haha.
did you covered the top of the tank with cling flim? ( to keep moisture inside )
high co2 bps after flooding will help the emerse HC transit to submerge HC.
your lighting is great base on watt per gallon.

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## bigfthing

Thanks Alan! Yes i did cling wrap fully leaving the lights outside. But I'm still scratching my head! After the transition period which i think is around maybe 5 days(guessing), can we lower the co2 bps? And by how much?

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## eviltrain

depends on how you deploy your army of CO2, inline diffuser/ ceramic disk. oh, don't forget to get yourself the CO2 indicator. like that you will know how/what to do.

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## bigfthing

Alright i will! So those indicator that changes color really works? I will get them! I have another 4 ft tank but i don't know what i want to plant as the foreground, any suggestion? I want it to be more Iwagumi type but since i have the HC on this current one i am growing already and it's with large driftwood on both left and right side. What would be nice for a long run?

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## eviltrain

brother bigthing,
i suggest start another thread for your tank, can't wait to see your huge project. as well can poison others.

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## bigfthing

But the tank i got is an old tank...very ugly...like seafood store one...and got ugly water stains mark which i yet to remove... so embarassing to post! Hahaha...plus so many hobbyist here had the same thread already, but i taken pictures so if i succeed, i MIGHT post! Thanks for bringing up!

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## duck

Intending to grow HC in a 1 foot cube. Can anyone advise on the ideal watts of light required?

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## bigfthing

I started a thread because getting some problems with the DSM project. Maybe can help me up Please!
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...291#post536291

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## punkytin

How can I prevent the HC at the bottom from rotting? I have successfully carpeted it in my 15gal tank, but noticed that the bottom layers die. Thanks!

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## o2bubble

Hi all, I have tried HC but was not successfully. but I really like to try again after seeing so many nice scapes and bros grow them successfully. Does anyone have some spare HC for me? Please pm me if you can help... I have some ludwigia arcuata, rotala sp green etc to exchange. Thanks...

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## thengz

Digging up an old thread here. Just wondering, has anyone been successful in growing the emersed HC submerged immediately without dry start method? If so, what are the water conditoins?

Currently I have CO2 in my tank, and temperature of water is around 28 degrees. The soild I'm using is the one sold by CRS Haven for shrimps.

Thus far, my HCs have been pearling, but probably only 1 pearl every one square cm of HC per day. Is that any measure for success? They have been in the tank for 5 days so far. So i'm hopeful.

Anyone out there that has tried, and succeded? How long does it take for the HC to start spreading?

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## Kiatster

you need a soil with high fert content, like ada amazonia, high light and co2 levels. If your HC is emersed, bubbling is normal at the beginning, but does not mean its doing well. Give it at least 2 weeks, you will know if it will succeed in your tank. Use drop checker to adjust the co2 levels. If requirements not met, they simply melt and its unsightly and hard to clear. Good luck.

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## Shadow

> Digging up an old thread here. Just wondering, has anyone been successful in growing the emersed HC submerged immediately without dry start method? If so, what are the water conditoins?


Sure, many times  :Grin: . You need fertile soil and plenty of CO2. Try not to have any fauna like shrimps or anything that can uproot it, at least during first or two months.

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## thengz

> you need a soil with high fert content, like ada amazonia, high light and co2 levels. If your HC is emersed, bubbling is normal at the beginning, but does not mean its doing well. Give it at least 2 weeks, you will know if it will succeed in your tank. Use drop checker to adjust the co2 levels. If requirements not met, they simply melt and its unsightly and hard to clear. Good luck.


Ai Carumba! That's going to be a problem, cause I won't be around to monitor the next 2 weeks. My mum would be helping me with the CO2, light, etc, during this period of time, but she probably can't make the decision on whether to clear the plants or not.

Looks like I might need to uproot them before I go on holiday. I'll monitor it for the next few days, if I don't see any progress in terms of spreading or if the plants start growing upwards, I'll probably get rid of them and start again on another tank when I'm back. This tank they are in are 2 weeks or so into their cycling process.




> Sure, many times . You need fertile soil and plenty of CO2. Try not to have any fauna like shrimps or anything that can uproot it, at least during first or two months.


Yep, didn't put in any shrimps or other fauna yet. Will probably do that in another 3 weeks when I'm back from my hols.  :Very Happy:

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## felix_fx2

> you need a soil with high fert content, like ada amazonia, high light and co2 levels. If your HC is emersed, bubbling is normal at the beginning, but does not mean its doing well. Give it at least 2 weeks, you will know if it will succeed in your tank. Use drop checker to adjust the co2 levels. If requirements not met, they simply melt and its unsightly and hard to clear. Good luck.


Mine is bubbling even when i am using 1.5 BPS... 
plus end of photo period got some larger bubbles stick on the leaves...

Actually thought never bubble thinking it is from my boyu diffuser, until i took a closer look at the intake end.

Waiting for my LED strips for DIY moonlight.  :Grin:

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## thengz

> Mine is bubbling even when i am using 1.5 BPS... 
> plus end of photo period got some larger bubbles stick on the leaves...
> 
> Actually thought never bubble thinking it is from my boyu diffuser, until i took a closer look at the intake end.
> 
> Waiting for my LED strips for DIY moonlight.


Oooh... Nice, you also threw your emersed HCs in straight away? Actually my main concern now is if it can survive through the next 3 weeks. If it can, I would just let it grow while I go on holiday. If the likelihood is that it would die, I'll take them out before I go on my holiday so that it won't disrupt the cycling of my tank.

----------


## felix_fx2

> Oooh... Nice, you also threw your emersed HCs in straight away? Actually my main concern now is if it can survive through the next 3 weeks. If it can, I would just let it grow while I go on holiday. If the likelihood is that it would die, I'll take them out before I go on my holiday so that it won't disrupt the cycling of my tank.


I've had some growth in dsm, but just added water since I'm growing hc emersed with my potted plants outside.

If your conditions are good ( I mean with chiller/fan + co2) coupled with the cool weather. Why not give it a go?

----------


## Kiatster

Felix, what i meant was that if the plant is grown dry before putting it into the tank, it will still bubble but may not be because its doing well. I tried that before and after awhile it stopped bubbling and then melted. But once it settles down then if 1.5bps is sufficient the it will bubble too. It really depends on your plant load too. Thus i recommended co2 indicator for better gauge rather than just bps.

----------


## felix_fx2

> Felix, what i meant was that if the plant is grown dry before putting it into the tank, it will still bubble but may not be because its doing well. I tried that before and after awhile it stopped bubbling and then melted. But once it settles down then if 1.5bps is sufficient the it will bubble too. It really depends on your plant load too. Thus i recommended co2 indicator for better gauge rather than just bps.


now i get what you mean...
my Co2 is quite saturated with my indicator showing yellow(still a slight tint of green) all the time. Never had HC before so i am observing closely and try to learn more.

I am after a 60% plus HC lawn since i am starting, learning a step at a time before i start doing more rockscapes.

----------


## marimo

Going to start HC ahead before i scape my tank since it takes like 1-2 months.
going to grow in another harvester tank and move them into new tank onces mature

1. Getting my new amazonia soil -> do i need to add more nutrients? like power sand for base?
2. Using dry start method -> so get submerged or emmersed HC ? confused
3. Going to use excel to supplement CO2 during wet soil, no budget for CO2 tank.. go low tec
4. light interval 12 hrs > 4-1-4-1-4
9am - 1am , 1 hr break 
2pm - 6pm, 1 hr break, 
7pm - 11pm
trying to give half day of light 12 hrs
5. temp with fan 27 deg 

Did i miss any steps?

----------


## thengz

> I've had some growth in dsm, but just added water since I'm growing hc emersed with my potted plants outside.
> 
> If your conditions are good ( I mean with chiller/fan + co2) coupled with the cool weather. Why not give it a go?





> Felix, what i meant was that if the plant is grown dry before putting it into the tank, it will still bubble but may not be because its doing well. I tried that before and after awhile it stopped bubbling and then melted. But once it settles down then if 1.5bps is sufficient the it will bubble too. It really depends on your plant load too. Thus i recommended co2 indicator for better gauge rather than just bps.


Darn, the prognosis is no good. I'm starting to see yellowing leaves and dark/dull green leaves. I'm guessing I might have to pull them out before I go for my holiday.

And ya, Kiatster is right, I have pearling first two or 3 days. But last night, no pearling. Looks like it's going down the gutter, will probably increase the CO2 for the next 3 days, if it still doesn't work, I'll take it out, and try again when I return for my hols. Probably try doing a DSM method on a small tank or something.

----------


## thengz

> Going to start HC ahead before i scape my tank since it takes like 1-2 months.
> going to grow in another harvester tank and move them into new tank onces mature
> 
> 1. Getting my new amazonia soil -> do i need to add more nutrients? like power sand for base?
> 2. Using dry start method -> so get submerged or emmersed HC ? confused
> 3. Going to use excel to supplement CO2 during wet soil, no budget for CO2 tank.. go low tec
> 4. light interval 12 hrs > 4-1-4-1-4
> 9am - 1am , 1 hr break 
> 2pm - 6pm, 1 hr break, 
> ...


Holy cow marimo! I just saw the pictures of your nano tank in the gallery. Very inspired by it. Will probably want to try something like that in the future.

What plants/soil/rocks did you use? And what's the method?

----------


## felix_fx2

You trying to max out growth rate during DSM? (i would prefer 4-1.5-4-1.5-4)

Is this the harvest tank that is only DSM? DSM is emmersed conditions.
If growing a harvester then transferring (DSM or directly submersed), you understand the work involved correct?

i've never used powersand so far, if your budget allows it would reap benefits.

this is my 50cents

----------


## marimo

> Holy cow marimo! I just saw the pictures of your nano tank in the gallery. Very inspired by it. Will probably want to try something like that in the future.
> 
> What plants/soil/rocks did you use? And what's the method?


err which nano ? 




> You trying to max out growth rate during DSM?


hah ya , need them to creep during drystart 
then most likely going to transfer them into tank and submerge them with daily excel
not sure if they will melt

----------


## thengz

> err which nano ?


More like mini. The one pictured with a 50 cents coin. Looks like its only 15cm or so in diameter.

----------


## marimo

Oic there is my thread.
its actually much smaller .. the terrian about 6-7 cm wide
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...oss-amp-lichen

----------


## felix_fx2

> hah ya , need them to creep during drystart 
> then most likely going to transfer them into tank and submerge them with daily excel
> not sure if they will melt


I did same before. After I changed all my t5 tubes. Growth seen is very slow.

Do try it out & share details.

----------


## marimo

yes will try .. getting my soil soon 
any scoop of HC to spare? should get emmerse form? like from C328?

----------


## SeVenZ

Just checking if my hc are not dying but they are not crawling also, what can I do ? It's been in the tank for like 1 mths plus. But it's not covering anything at all? Still looks the same when I planted it.
Ada Amazonia soil
Excel daily
Potassium every other day

The rest of my plants are doing quite. Most have taken root and grown mad high but my hc have not move a single bit . Want to carpet my fore ground with it hopefully

----------


## felix_fx2

> yes will try .. getting my soil soon 
> any scoop of HC to spare? should get emmerse form? like from C328?


C328 good. Much thicker growth for emersed then I can grow lol.

----------


## thengz

> yes will try .. getting my soil soon 
> any scoop of HC to spare? should get emmerse form? like from C328?


Hey Marimo, I've some HC but their condition can be pretty crappy already. Can give them to you free though, if you are at a convenient place. I'm mostly at either Bukit Timah or Bukit Merah area.

I bought them emersed from C328. Was thinking of throwing them away before going to my holiday.  :Surprised: 

Can email me at [email protected] if you're interested.  :Grin:

----------


## daniel19831123

I'm not sure about the comment about HC needing cool water. I've seen HC in the highway stops in malaysia grown wildly in one of those fountain pond submerged and subjected to full blast sunlight. I'm pretty sure the temperature there will be at least 30 degree and it was growing well.

----------


## marimo

> Hey Marimo, I've some HC but their condition can be pretty crappy already. Can give them to you free though, if you are at a convenient place. I'm mostly at either Bukit Timah or Bukit Merah area.
> 
> I bought them emersed from C328. Was thinking of throwing them away before going to my holiday. 
> 
> Can email me at [email protected] if you're interested.


gotcha, as long its not rotted or melting, i stay jalan bukit merah
i can try to give them a boost experiment to see if they revive from torpor

----------


## felix_fx2

> I'm not sure about the comment about HC needing cool water. I've seen HC in the highway stops in malaysia grown wildly in one of those fountain pond submerged and subjected to full blast sunlight. I'm pretty sure the temperature there will be at least 30 degree and it was growing well.


Think it's more like grows faster and nicer.
The hc and glosso tank I have thats quite exposed to hot sun grows VERY slow and it barely creep more then 1 inch (3cm). Fact is it look quite nice for a small bunch.

IMO, how many hobbyist willing to wait long periods? I too fell short of patience.  :Sad:

----------


## marimo

if 3 months and its working , its worth
but if 3 months and it fail or you cant keep up with the WC and stuff, thats really sux

so i be using hopefully the same setting in a dummy tank to test if HC will creep.. if doesnt , going to abandon carpeting HC

----------


## felix_fx2

Agree haha. 1st time I fail in dsm. But my 1st try at HC.

So when you starting?

----------


## felix_fx2

This is the submersed grown hc outside my flat. Started about the time of my 3 feet dsm. Not much growth lol

----------


## ralliart12

Hi fellows, I have also recently started DSM on HC, but I may have flooded the substrate with too much water & will like to seek some suggestions on how to remedy the blunder.

These were taken last Saturday. I didn't manage to push the tufts of HC deep enough into the substrate but I was going to remedy that by "burying" their stems & roots with a layer of "New Amazonia" POWDER-type). Anyway the point of the 3 following photos, is to highlight the flooded area in the centre of the "lawn", a.k.a. the problem/blunder:


P1000116.jpg

P1000119.jpg

P1000121.jpg

This photo is the one directly after I remedy my bad planting (using POWDER-type of the "New Amazonia"), taken last Saturday also:

P1000137.jpg

These photos are taken today (for the purpose of growth comparison):

combine_last3_small.jpg

As sort of expected: the HC _ain't doing so hot in the flooded regions_.

Remedy? Use serviettes to absorb the excess water & drain them onto the higher grounds? Or wait for the the tufts in the flooded area to convert to _submerged_ form? But my _fear is that they will rot before succeeding the conversion_?

Alternatively, I can dispose the melted/gone-case tufts in the flooded regions > " un-flood" the regions > plant some newly-bought tufts (by laying them directly onto the soil & then using powder-type to "plant/bury" them, as per how I planted the 1st wave). & proceed (to do nothing but wait) as per normal.

Any suggestion?

----------


## ralliart12

> ...


Here's a larger photo of the "problem" area:

P1000196.jpg

----------


## marimo

tilt ur tank backwards by using some support at the front tank

----------


## Shadow

look like too much water. You should not put too much water in DSM, not until you can see water from the soil top surface.

----------


## ralliart12

> tilt ur tank backwards by using some support at the front tank


Considered that before, but abandon the idea as it is too risky (my tank stand has no "rails" in front or behind to guard against the tank slipping off the rack).




> look like too much water. You should not put too much water in DSM, not until you can see water from the soil top surface.


So Shadow, may I interpret this as, you are in favour of my "alternative in green"?

----------


## Shadow

Actually I will go for both of your idea  :Laughing:  I use tissue towel to dry the excess water, remove the melted HC and plant new one if necessary. By the way you don't really need the cling wrap, it can work without it as long as you spray with water 2 or 3 times a day.

----------


## felix_fx2

The word is moist soil. I think IMO the best way I can put it.

You can use a paper towel for kitchen. If you remove the cling warp can just let evaporation do it's job

----------


## ralliart12

> ...By the way you don't really need the cling wrap, it can work without it as long as you spray with water 2 or 3 times a day.





> ...If you remove the cling warp can just let evaporation do it's job


NHHe2.jpg

Actually, I am no longer using cling wrap shortly after the 1st batch of photos were snapped last Saturday; I am using a thin piece of acrylic to lock the moisture in & prevent too much drying-out.

P1000141.jpg

The reason I switched from cling-wrapping the whole thing to a piece of acrylic is because of my routine, i.e. every morning before the lights come on I will remove the wraps & air the tank to allow a fresh supply of carbon-dioxide-filled air to enter the tank. I will make use of the opportunity to mist the leaves and environment using de-chlorinated (_but not de-ammonized_) water _that has some SeaChem Excel flourish mixed in_. The single piece of acrylic proves to be easier to manipulate day in & day out than wrapping & unwrapping multiple pieces of cling-wrap. The acrylic solution is also _more air-tight_ than cling-wrapping _due to my light stands' design_. However, the acrylic has a down-side which I'll elaborate later.




> Actually I will go for both of your idea  I use tissue towel to dry the excess water, remove the melted HC and plant new one if necessary...





> ...You can use a paper towel for kitchen. If you remove the cling warp can just let evaporation do it's job


The downside of the acrylic solution is that it warps when it is exposed so near to my light for long period of time. So I flip it everyday when I air the tank. I forgot to flip the convex/concave side yesterday & come this morning the flooded regions in my tank has significantly less water (_honestly I'm surprised by the rate of evaporation in my room_).

Nonetheless, I still use some serviettes to drain away the excess & planted some new tufts of HC. This photo is taken today right after I laid them new tufts onto the previously-water-logged areas (_btw, I couldn't manage to remove the melted ones easily so I intend to let them rot further & serve as nutrients_):

P1000199.jpg

& this photo is after I "_bury_" them with POWDER-type AquaSoil as per how I planted the 1st batch:

P1000203.jpg

So I hope these 2nd batch will manage to catch up with the 1st.




> The word is moist soil. I think IMO the best way I can put it...


I hear you crystal clear. In response, for today, I left the acrylic cover off & hence allowing evaporation to further reduce the amount of "water-logged-ness" from the surface layer of my soil. I may or may not replace the cover from tomorrow onwards _as I do not intend to mist more than once every morning_.

----------


## ralliart12

Lastly, since I have _excess_ HC, threw some onto a tray of GEX "PLANT" Soil to grow _outside my flat using natural sunlight_. Think of it as a _control_. I wish to see _if the different lighting environment, as well as air temperature plays a part_. & "just nice", I have a newly-planted batch starting from today in my indoor tank so timing remains a constant factor, i.e. same "Day 0". Photos as follows:

P1000208.jpg

& coated with small mounds of POWDER-type Aqua Soil:

P1000209.jpg

----------


## darter

Marimo bro also staying Bukit Merah area? Cool. One more hobbist that i know here staying near me. 

Is HC really so hard to grow? Thinking of using that only for my new 40cm tank. I can split my existing CO2 tank to cater for this tank, but my avgerage temperature at home is about 29-30 degree. Will this have an effect on the growth? No access to chiller as the filter im using is a eden 501.

----------


## Neondagger

Stay toon to my planted tank post. My first panted tank with hc. Next week might be starting. Might do more research. But what I hear. Co2 and light most important. Not temp. But I think low temp would help also. Hc is like Ferrari. Will not be cheap. Dsm is the easier to spread. The difficult part is the conversion from emerged to submerged. Easily 50% not making it. After that slow growth as converting. Then need to wait at least 1month before fully emerged and need wait 3 months at least to spread. A lot people fail during the converting period. 

In the process of learning but fun!

----------


## darter

Hmmz. Besides HC, what is a good nice carpeting plant? Dont i wan moss, maybe jus some java moss to rub on the rock surface like how Amano does it.

----------


## Shadow

you can try glosso.

----------


## kimchi

> you can try glosso.


Hi Shadow, can let me know where to get glosso in bulk? I need to cover the whole 4-ft tank & will grow submerge with GEX soil. Thanks!

----------


## Shadow

Glosso is extremely fast growing plants, 8-10 pots probably enough. You can order from C328 aunty. Normally you can pick up your order the next day.

----------


## kimchi

> Glosso is extremely fast growing plants, 8-10 pots probably enough. You can order from C328 aunty. Normally you can pick up your order the next day.


Thanks! One last question. How to plant it so that it can root properly & grow well? I set the chiller to 24 deg with CO2 probably at 2 bubbles per second.

----------


## ralliart12

P1000505.jpgP1000506.jpgP1000507.jpgP1000508.jpgP1000509.jpg

----------


## ralliart12

P1000510.jpgP1000511.jpgP1000512.jpgP1000513.jpgP1000514.jpg

----------


## ralliart12

P1000515.jpgP1000520.jpgP1000516.jpgP1000517.jpgP1000518.jpg

----------


## felix_fx2

Dsm again mate?

----------


## Neondagger

I give up on dsm cause more problem than solution for me.

----------


## hencpu

The HC pattern looks like hieroglyphics at a glance  :Grin:

----------


## felix_fx2

> The HC pattern looks like hieroglyphics at a glance


LOL ! i personally feel he put in alot of work for them.

----------


## hencpu

> LOL ! i personally feel he put in alot of work for them.


Yup, no doubt on that. It looks unique.

----------


## ralliart12

> The HC pattern looks like hieroglyphics at a glance


Basically, this is what I did:

1. Scape the substrate
2. Flood the substrate from beneath it (to ensure the water seeps towards the topsoil instead of the other way round) until "pools" of water appear.
3. Blackout the tank completely & only air the substrate when there's no light (to avoid any opportunity for algae to grow)
By a few nights' time the substrate has almost no visible pools & much dryer
4. Separate the HC into strands
5. Lay the strands in the "grooves" & "non-grooved" area evenly.
6. Introduce new power-type soil into the trenches
7. Scatter power-type soil on the roots of those strands that are not in the trenches as well.
8. Use same approach (from "beneath") to saturate substrate with water; this time round aim for mud-like consistency
9. Tug on the "buried" strands to ensure large portions of their leaves (but not the roots) are just lying on top of the substrate.

----------


## felix_fx2

Truly Singaporean  :Smile:  good job in the pictorial of what you did.
You didn't seem to put alot hc per trench IMO.

----------


## ralliart12

> Dsm again mate?


Yes, my previous tank encountered bad luck on a _unprecedented_ scale. So here's me trying again. 




> ...You didn't seem to put alot hc per trench IMO.


Just _1_ strand per trench & _1_ strand per "raised" area (except for the "triangular" peak area, where I scatter a few strands much closer together). Basically, really _strand-by-strand_ planting throughout.

----------


## Navanod

Good grief! Shell scraps!
That's alot of work for planting HC bro. I submit to your diligence

----------


## ralliart12

> ...I submit to your diligence


Since I do not have any thing in the "luck" department, I can only compensate in the "effort" department.

----------


## Neondagger

All the best. For your dsm. Do update us

----------


## felix_fx2

> Yes, my previous tank encountered bad luck on a _unprecedented_ scale. So here's me trying again. 
> Just _1_ strand per trench & _1_ strand per "raised" area (except for the "triangular" peak area, where I scatter a few strands much closer together). Basically, really _strand-by-strand_ planting throughout.


if it was me, i will poke a hole put few strands in then cover back. Just doing that i have backache....




> Good grief! Shell scraps!
> That's alot of work for planting HC bro. I submit to your diligence


ITY stick? actually he is commanding officer of the HC infantry forces. :P

----------


## ralliart12

> if it was me, i will poke a hole put few strands in then cover back. Just doing that i have backache...


Actually, that is what I did, except I only put a single strand per "hole"; as I have "heard" if one is able to plant them strands by strand, the "growing-in" will be better. Unsure about this though. Took me 2.5hrs just to isolate & lay the strands; using new soil to fill up the holes & saturating the substrate again, took some further time.

----------


## felix_fx2

> Actually, that is what I did, except I only put a single strand per "hole"; as I have "heard" if one is able to plant them strands by strand, the "growing-in" will be better. Unsure about this though. Took me 2.5hrs just to isolate & lay the strands; using new soil to fill up the holes & saturating the substrate again, took some further time.


that is quite the effort, the "hole" is XL size. By right is that way, i really do it for glosso.. HC's just too tiny.
If you were to do Hairgrass, your effort will repay you back many times.

----------


## ralliart12

> ...the "hole" is XL size...


You mean the rectangular trenches I dug are far too big?

----------


## felix_fx2

it's personal view, so don't worry.

----------


## ralliart12

Just for kicks, here's a shot of them close to 48hours later:







Btw, this is the kind of _soil moisture consistency_ I hope to maintain.

----------


## hencpu

Anyone can help with this? 

I have tried a couple times to replant with new batch of submerged HC, the first 3-4 weeks they will look healthy & spread rapidly.



But at the end they always shrink down to very tiny leaves & die?  :Flame: 


Here's what I meant. The ones on the left are about 1 wk old, those in red circles were about 1 mth old. They shrunk & died slowly.  :Crying:

----------


## zonkkie

From what I see, you never plant deeply enough. Need to use those sharp pincer and plunge the whole thing in, leaving only some leaves peeking out of the soil.

----------


## Shadow

Need info of your tank. some of the leaf, not the one circled, have holes maybe nutrient deficiency

----------


## hencpu

> From what I see, you never plant deeply enough. Need to use those sharp pincer and plunge the whole thing in, leaving only some leaves peeking out of the soil.


Haha, actually they were planted very deep, I will push the whole clump into soil & leaving only the very top leaves peeking a little. But somehow the thing is they were always uprooted, either by shrimps or lose soil?

Or is it because I need to plant strand by strand?

----------


## hencpu

> Need info of your tank. some of the leaf, not the one circled, have holes maybe nutrient deficiency


Nutrient deficiency? 

Lighting: 36W T5HO 6500K over 40x28x25cm tank
Photoperiod: 6 hours
CO2: 2bps
Fert: ADA Step 1 & Brighty K every day
Temp: 28-29c
PH: 7.2
GH: 10

----------


## Shadow

I hope its a new soil because ADA step 1 only contain Fe and K.

Edit: saw your original post, you are using ADA soil.

----------


## hencpu

> I hope its a new soil because ADA step 1 only contain Fe and K.
> 
> Edit: saw your original post, you are using ADA soil.


Oh yeah, forgot the soil. Yeah, I'm using New Amazonia, normal type below & powder type on top layer.

----------


## felix_fx2

Shrimps will help you uproot HC.

----------


## zonkkie

> Haha, actually they were planted very deep, I will push the whole clump into soil & leaving only the very top leaves peeking a little. But somehow the thing is they were always uprooted, either by shrimps or lose soil?
> 
> Or is it because I need to plant strand by strand?


I plant around 3 strands max... if can do strand by strand better. Soil-wise, Amanzonia + K should be ok. But if the roots get pulled out, obviously cannot adsorb the nutrients.

----------


## hencpu

> I plant around 3 strands max... if can do strand by strand better. Soil-wise, Amanzonia + K should be ok. But if the roots get pulled out, obviously cannot adsorb the nutrients.


Thanks. Anyway, some of the HC will grow very tall & leggy. But their roots can't penetrate back into the soil, so they will just shrink & slowly melt away. Is it because still not enough light?

----------


## Peanut8787

> Thanks. Anyway, some of the HC will grow very tall & leggy. But their roots can't penetrate back into the soil, so they will just shrink & slowly melt away. Is it because still not enough light?


Yes, HC is same as glosso. If lighting is not sufficient then they will grow tall trying to reach the light. Given your light spec, maybe can add in another 36watt?

----------


## hencpu

> Yes, HC is same as glosso. If lighting is not sufficient then they will grow tall trying to reach the light. Given your light spec, maybe can add in another 36watt?


Thx, but i thought my tank already high light at 5wpg (36w over 7gal) & i'm already struggling with algae with only 6hr of lighting. Adding another 36w will be 10wpg  :Shocked:   :Shocked:

----------


## felix_fx2

Hi, light requirement for different plants are different. 
Peanut is stating a general fact that applies to quite a range of carpet plants.

Talk about light required.... your not the only one don't worry, here's ,here's ,my Glosso HC test tank. There's abit of nutrient deficiency too. 
Sorry about the reflection, their out in the sun for the whole day.

----------


## zonkkie

Just sharing some pictures about planting deeply and strand by strand. 

Initially saw the Tropica video, cut 1cm by 1cm, trim off the roots and push it into the soil. 



Looks nice and neat initially...two days later become like that... having yamatos in the tank didn't help at all... they will dig up the lightly planted HC. 



Learn from shifu and a bro here to plant deeply... and strand by strand... pull out all the HC and redid again. Random and backbreaking initially. 



2 months later... well rewarded.

----------


## felix_fx2

That was a chilled setup, think specs will help him.
Did notice hc more mostly do well only in co2 enriched high light tanks (t5ho 4 tube tanks) almost never seen a lawn with low tech.

----------


## Peanut8787

> Thx, but i thought my tank already high light at 5wpg (36w over 7gal) & i'm already struggling with algae with only 6hr of lighting. Adding another 36w will be 10wpg


I didn't know your tank was 7G. In that case you can't add in more lights as what you said was right it will invite algae. Now I think the problem would be your temperature and PH. And why is your GH so high? 

Given your tank spec..
Lighting: 36W T5HO 6500K over 40x28x25cm tank
Photoperiod: 6 hours
CO2: 2bps
Fert: ADA Step 1 & Brighty K every day
Temp: 28-29c
PH: 7.2
GH: 10

----------


## Peanut8787

> Hi, light requirement for different plants are different. 
> Peanut is stating a general fact that applies to quite a range of carpet plants.
> 
> Talk about light required.... your not the only one don't worry, here's ,here's ,my Glosso HC test tank. There's abit of nutrient deficiency too. 
> Sorry about the reflection, their out in the sun for the whole day.


Thanks for explaining bro. But what does it help to mix glosso with HC? Won't they grow out to be same during photography moment?

----------


## hencpu

> Hi, light requirement for different plants are different. 
> Peanut is stating a general fact that applies to quite a range of carpet plants.
> 
> Talk about light required.... your not the only one don't worry, here's ,here's ,my Glosso HC test tank. There's abit of nutrient deficiency too. 
> Sorry about the reflection, their out in the sun for the whole day.


Ic, your Glosso grow nicely. So they are much easier than HC?

----------


## hencpu

> Just sharing some pictures about planting deeply and strand by strand. 
> 
> Initially saw the Tropica video, cut 1cm by 1cm, trim off the roots and push it into the soil. 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice and neat initially...two days later become like that... having yamatos in the tank didn't help at all... they will dig up the lightly planted HC. 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, thanks bro for the detailed explanation & damn nice HC you got there. Yeah, I think one of my mistakes is not planting them strand by strand. When planting, I usually push the clump (about 1cm by 1cm) very deeply until only very little leaves exposed. But once they started to grow, the whole clump will be ejected slowly due to buoyancy & the runners can't anchor themselves back into the soil. Yeah, the shrimps are digging them as well.

----------


## hencpu

> That was a chilled setup, think specs will help him.
> Did notice hc more mostly do well only in co2 enriched high light tanks (t5ho 4 tube tanks) almost never seen a lawn with low tech.


I thought Shadow mentioned HC also can do well in higher temperature?

----------


## hencpu

> I didn't know your tank was 7G. In that case you can't add in more lights as what you said was right it will invite algae. Now I think the problem would be your temperature and PH. And why is your GH so high? 
> 
> Given your tank spec..
> Lighting: 36W T5HO 6500K over 40x28x25cm tank
> Photoperiod: 6 hours
> CO2: 2bps
> Fert: ADA Step 1 & Brighty K every day
> Temp: 28-29c
> PH: 7.2
> GH: 10


I put some coral chips in my filter initially & some rocks also contributes to the increase in GH. It used to be about 14-15, but I have already removed all the coral chips & slowly reduced the GH to about 5-6.

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## Shadow

Sure, I grow HC many time in 2ft tank without chiller, plenty of CO2 and plenty of NPK. I wondering if my success due to water parameter, my kH is prety much zero, pH is around 6.2-6.4, gH not a clue never measure and temperature typically 28-29C cold day maybe around 26-27C.

Below is one of my latest scape with foreground HC.

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## felix_fx2

> Thanks for explaining bro. But what does it help to mix glosso with HC? Won't they grow out to be same during photography moment?


Testing tank... every time glosso out compete HC..  :Laughing: 




> Ic, your Glosso grow nicely. So they are much easier than HC?


Glosso quite easy as it is not a Co2 demanding can grow well without Co2.
HC is very co2 demanding plant.

The above assumes the light is strong enough.  :Idea: 




> I thought Shadow mentioned HC also can do well in higher temperature?


I am using fan also, i am no rich guy just another low earner.

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## hencpu

Allright, thanks for the feedback & advice, guys. Guess I'll start by replanting strand by strand according to zonkkie's advice. Then I'll monitor the PH & GH, temperature wise, I can't do anything cause I'm not planning to use chiller or fan.

If failed again, guess I'll just switch to Glosso or Marimo carpet.  :Grin:

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## felix_fx2

marimo is algae !~!!! algae carpet~!!

Do glosso, we start tank same month  :Smile:

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## Shadow

> .... temperature wise, I can't do anything cause I'm not planning to use chiller or fan.


Try at least fan lah  :Laughing:

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## felix_fx2

> Try at least fan lah


Now still can see 2.5.5-27.5deg with cool weather...

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## Numbskull

how much CO2/bps do you all blast???

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## hencpu

> marimo is algae !~!!! algae carpet~!!
> 
> Do glosso, we start tank same month


Haha, maybe the clado Marimo will keep outcompete all the nutrients & keep other algae at bay. Ok maybe Glosso first.  :Grin:

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## hencpu

> Try at least fan lah


I had the Mr Aqua Tornado before, but sold it soon after due to the hassle of water top up.  :Grin:

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## ralliart12

> ...Give it at least 2 weeks, you will know if it will succeed in your tank. Use drop checker to adjust the co2 levels. If requirements not met, they simply melt and its unsightly and hard to clear. Good luck.


May I know why it is necessary to clear the _melted_ HC (in a submerged setup, if this aspect matters)?




> Felix, what i meant was that if the plant is grown dry before putting it into the tank, it will still bubble but may not be because its doing well. I tried that before and after awhile it stopped bubbling and then melted...


Qn1a: may I confirm that _regardless of how much CO2_ one pumps into a flooded tank to assist HC that are grown using the dry-start method to transit into their submerged form, the HC *will* still melt around after the 1st couple of weeks to aid them into transforming into their submerged leaves-form-factor_?_

Qn1b: If _this_ is happening, is there really a need to remove the melted HC?




> I hope its a new soil because ADA step 1 only contain Fe and K...


May I know, assuming high light & Amazonia (the "new" model) soil & chilled water, along with CO2 is supplied, theorectically, can HC be grown with no further, additional "nutrients" supplement?




> ...There's abit of nutrient deficiency too...


May I know how you determine that there's nutrients deficiency (with regards to this photo)?




> ...But once they started to grow, the whole clump will be ejected slowly due to buoyancy...


The buoyancy is intense enough to "drag" the buried clump out of the soil?  :Shocked:

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## Shadow

> Qn1a: may I confirm that _regardless of how much CO2_ one pumps into a flooded tank to assist HC that are grown using the dry-start method to transit into their submerged form, the HC *will* still melt around after the 1st couple of weeks to aid them into transforming into their submerged leaves-form-factor_?_
> 
> Qn1b: If _this_ is happening, is there really a need to remove the melted HC?


My experience with dry start, is whatever you do the emerge leaf will melt and the submerge leaf which are growing on top of them start to float because the root is to short to grab the soil. That is why I stop using dry start, not worth the waiting. This is my personal experience oither may have experience differently or have secret formula to prevent emerge plant from melting when submerge  :Wink: 




> May I know, assuming high light & Amazonia (the "new" model) soil & chilled water, along with CO2 is supplied, theorectically, can HC be grown with no further, additional "nutrients" supplement?


It will probably will grow fine for about a year before start showing nutrient deficiency.

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## ralliart12

> My experience with dry start, is whatever you do the emerge leaf will melt and the submerge leaf which are growing on top of them start to float because the root is to short to grab the soil. That is why I stop using dry start, not worth the waiting. This is my personal experience oither may have experience differently or have secret formula to prevent emerge plant from melting when submerge ...


Oh dear, sounds like another round of heartbreak around the time I intend to flood my tank. I didn't realize the submerged leaves will grow directly at the top instead of "pushing up" from beneath the emersed leaves.




> ...It will probably will grow fine for about a year before start showing nutrient deficiency.


Good to know.

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## Shadow

Don't worry, you can still enjoy it for a month or two before start melting  :Laughing:

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## ralliart12

> Don't worry, you can still enjoy it for a month or two before start melting


Previously, when you used DSM, when the emerged leaves melted, what did you do?

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## Shadow

nothing, I can't do anything  :Opps:  just see them float away bit by bit  :Exasperated: . 

I did try trimming them with hope new branch grow fast enough and able to hold the soil but it does not work. Probably because I trim after I saw sign of rotting. Maybe it can work if I trim before any sign of rotting.

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## felix_fx2

My grown ones also have some floating up.
Trimming hc is a horror story to me

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## ralliart12

> ...Trimming hc is a horror story to me


May I know what do you use to trim them?

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## alvinchan80

> May I know what do you use to trim them?


Scissors? Those use for aquatic plants?
That's what I used when I trimming my HC... Just put your scissors parallel to your substrate or any angle you like and snipe...

The sniping portion is quite fun.. It's the part when you see the surface of your water, the leaves everywhere and when you take out your hand, it's stuck to your arm.. That's the irritating part...

My HC rockscape last time.. (with shrimps and it's not good for shrimps..)

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## ralliart12

> Scissors? Those use for aquatic plants?
> That's what I used when I trimming my HC... Just put your scissors parallel to your substrate or any angle you like and snipe...


Is it one of those "curved" scissors like those spring cutter from BorneoWild?

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## alvinchan80

> Is it one of those "curved" scissors like those spring cutter from BorneoWild?


I am using this all the while..

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## felix_fx2

> Is it one of those "curved" scissors like those spring cutter from BorneoWild?


 Hi ralliart12,

i use cheap angled scissors from ocean free. (but i really like the wave cutter from Borneowild but no budget  :Sad: )
To picture the aftermath of the trim, imagine the fish tank snowing, and the snow is green.

@alvinchan80, rocks and shrimps are not good friends  :Laughing: . Btw what brand of tank is that? Workmanship seems good.

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## Shadow

> The sniping portion is quite fun.. It's the part when you see the surface of your water, the leaves everywhere and when you take out your hand, it's stuck to your arm.. That's the irritating part...


It happen to almost any carpet plants. HC and glosso can be scope using net but hairgrass need very-very fine net otherwise it just come out from the holes.

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## alvinchan80

> Hi ralliart12,
> 
> i use cheap angled scissors from ocean free. (but i really like the wave cutter from Borneowild but no budget )
> To picture the aftermath of the trim, imagine the fish tank snowing, and the snow is green.
> 
> @alvinchan80, rocks and shrimps are not good friends . Btw what brand of tank is that? Workmanship seems good.


It was a CADE tank from blue33.. It's no longer with me but with another hobbyist...  :Smile: 

Yeah... I was stubborn and want to prove wrong when I started shrimp hobby.. GH soar like mad.. Haha.. But I learnt it and hope that I am doing better this time.. Haha.. (without rocks of cause)

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## alvinchan80

> It happen to almost any carpet plants. HC and glosso can be scope using net but hairgrass need very-very fine net otherwise it just come out from the holes.


That was my one and only carpet plant.. Hahaha... Too much hassle during trimming... But it is also one of my prettiest scape (or only scape) that I have done..  :Razz:

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## felix_fx2

> It was a CADE tank from blue33.. It's no longer with me but with another hobbyist... 
> 
> Yeah... I was stubborn and want to prove wrong when I started shrimp hobby.. GH soar like mad.. Haha.. But I learnt it and hope that I am doing better this time.. Haha.. (without rocks of cause)


i see, CADE tank... no wonder the glass so nice.
Many folks want to break tradition, some under favorable conditions can be broken where some are facts backed by science & are only slightly bendable.

Everyone learn some facts the hardway, that's where it burns right to your brain. painfully  :Sad:

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## ralliart12

> Don't worry, you can still enjoy it for a month or two before start melting


Thanks for pre-empting me on my next scheduled heartbreak  :Sad: 




> ...But it is also one of my prettiest scape (or only scape) that I have done..


That's for sure, i.e. the very thick & lush lawn looks simply gorgeous.




> ...GH soar like mad.. Haha.. But I learnt it and hope that I am doing better this time.. Haha.. (without rocks of cause)


What rocks are those?
& they aren't inert? If inert rocks, shouldn't have problem for shrimps right?

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## alvinchan80

> What rocks are those?
> &amp; they aren't inert? If inert rocks, shouldn't have problem for shrimps right?


Those are bought as Kurokinryu rocks which are said not to affect PH or GH (but don't trust these anymore.. No rocks for me.. Hahaha)

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## ralliart12

> I am using this all the while..


Hi alvin, may I know what model/brand this scissors is from? Actually, will any curved aquascaping scissors do? Even if the "curved" portion is quite minimal, as long as there's some curve, will it help a lot with trimming carpeting plants already?

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## Shadow

get this type, the best for trimming foreground.

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## ralliart12

> get this type, the best for trimming foreground...


Will those scissors be a lot less "curved" portion be enough to trim foreground carpeting plants? Or really need something with such a large curved portion?

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## Shadow

not really need, you can even use straight scissor, just curve type is easier to use.

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## ralliart12

> not really need, you can even use straight scissor, just curve type is easier to use.


_So it's just a question of how awkward one has to tilt his fingers, right?_ I feel that, even a small curved tip will help a lot already; just that if the curved portion is a lot more, that does mean less contorting of two fingers, & speed up the process.

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## eviltrain

Just buy those curve stainless steel scissors from pharmacy will do. They are kinda small but still better then straight scissiors. 

Warning. You might get your armpit wet. 

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

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## cephelix

just read through the thread and saw all the blood, sweat and tears you guys put in trying to make your HC carpet survive.....
it's like reading a horror story.....wondering if i should go with glosso in my next 2ft rescape instead?

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