# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  Using Seachem excel for BBA

## o2bubble

Just to share that my tank is having BBA outbreak currently and per Mr chan's (from NA) recommendation to use double dosage for Excel for 3 days now and it works! BBA turned red and I'm waiting to see if they will turn white and die off. My SAE and yamatos are starting to feast on the dying BBA  :Smile: 

I think the trigger was my Co2 level which dropped due to CO2 tank almost empty. Topped up and blast it to 30 ppm now.

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## o2bubble

Btw, please note not to overdo it. I double dosed again the next day and all my shrimps and fishes were staying at the water surface and breathing very heavily. A few casulties as well  :Sad:  Luckily, after partial water change, they survived  :Smile:

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## Shadow

Seachem Excel only last 24 hours before it dissipates, just make sure you dose next after 24 hours.  :Wink: 

Quote from Seachem FAQ website



> Q: Is it better to add Flourish Excel at night or in the morning based upon plant carbon uptake physiology?
> 
> A: Carbon intake is a function of photosynthesis. Based on this, it would be ideal to dose Flourish Excel during the day. But given that *Flourish Excel can stay complexed as a carbon source for up to 24 hours before it dissipates,* you can dose at any time of the day and the product will be available for the next 24 hours. Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide and there is no impact on pH using Flourish Excel.

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## JizzHut

after its cleared will there be left over chem left by it?

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## Navanod

I've been overdosing my "daily" (not the after waterchange) dose of 2.5ml per 100L by 8 times (i.e 20ml per day) and did not suffer any deaths (CRS, Fire reds and otto). Except the algae of course...they're really suffering, almost wiped out.

For those with smaller tank volume, the toxic dose seemed to be smaller...even though the concentration is the same...

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## JizzHut

smaller tank, toxic smaller? isn't it suppose to be another way round? 

Guess i should give it a go too

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## barmby

Seachem excel for BBA is well known and well documented if you do a search in this forum. Be very careful if you have painted red, CRS, king kong and etc. One wrong dose = $ fly fly.

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## o2bubble

Bro Shadow, thanks for the info but I think only the Carbon portion dissipate? Does the other component against algae, i.e. Glutaraldehyde dissipate as well within 24 hours? I still seeing BBA dying despite after not adding anymore yesterday (after 24 hours since last dose). Maybe, I will try adding double daily doses just in case to make sure BBA are killed  :Smile: 




> Seachem Excel only last 24 hours before it dissipates, just make sure you dose next after 24 hours. 
> 
> Quote from Seachem FAQ website

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## clarenceawj

hi since this thread is abt seachem excel, pardon my ignorance as i'm kinda new to planted tank. i currently have a small tank with nana and java fern. i still need to dose abit of excel in too rite as the plant require their necessary intake of carbon?

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## Navanod

> smaller tank, toxic smaller? isn't it suppose to be another way round? 
> 
> Guess i should give it a go too


Apologies for the unclear message.
I had meant to imply that if the tank volume is smaller, excel may seemed to be more toxic although the overdose dosage dilution is about the same. I have no data to back this up but some folks reported livestock loss at 3-5 times overdosage. I'm throwing in 8 times overdose (20ml) daily in a 100L tank after lights off. Could also be the large filters (2078+L size Atman HOF), the old sea mud powder or high rate of uptake from hornworts, but the excel seemed to disappear after killing the algae it was squirted on.

But I got worried after doing this for almost a month as a few tiny remaining stubborn BBA clumps seemed to be getting resistant, so I halved the excel dose and replaced it with H2O2. Now the BBA have to deal with both reducing and oxidizing damage & it totally wiped them out.

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## JizzHut

i re read my post again and it seem to be a bit rude, no offence bro

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## Shadow

> Bro Shadow, thanks for the info but I think only the Carbon portion dissipate? Does the other component against algae, i.e. Glutaraldehyde dissipate as well within 24 hours? I still seeing BBA dying despite after not adding anymore yesterday (after 24 hours since last dose). Maybe, I will try adding double daily doses just in case to make sure BBA are killed


Glutaraldehyde (CH2(CH2CHO)2) is the carbon component and also strong disinfectant in high concentration. The algae probably disinfected when it is in contact with the compound. You can asked seachem customer support for further question, they are pretty helpful.

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## Navanod

> i re read my post again and it seem to be a bit rude, no offence bro


None taken bro  :Smile: 




> Glutaraldehyde (CH2(CH2CHO)2) is the carbon component and also strong disinfectant in high concentration. The algae probably disinfected when it is in contact with the compound. You can asked seachem customer support for further question, they are pretty helpful.


Hehe, Seachem is very secretive when asked about this because they are not supposed to market Excel as an algaecide due to federal regulations. I've googled it to death and the best they've said is that this is a "side effect" dued to Excel's reducing ability

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## Shadow

From the Seachem FAQ site:




> Q: When I first dosed my tank with all the Flourish products I was experienceing quite a bit of hair alage. Within three days the hair alage had turned a reddish orange and about four days after that it had completely disappeared. Do you have any idea just which of these products could have caused this? I must admit that I have never seen such a dramatic change with the alage when I first used the Flourish products, and I would really like to be able to repeat the experience when ever the alage re-appears.
> 
> A: This is a known side effect of Flourish Excel that may sometimes occur. It has been reported to us by other consumers, however it does not occur under all conditions therefore we do not promote it or sell it for that purpose.


If you have technical question, just ask them. They may secretive as Navanod said but just give it a try, it is just an email away  :Wink:

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## o2bubble

Hi all, just an update that BBA in my tank turned white and disappearing fast. I believe my algae crew is having a good feast on them.

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## Navanod

> Hi all, just an update that BBA in my tank turned white and disappearing fast. I believe my algae crew is having a good feast on them.


Thats excellent news bro.

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## JizzHut

see any downside? fish still healthy? plants? good shape?

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## o2bubble

Fishes and shrimps seem no effects and plants looks even healthy, even my nana seems to have lesser green spot algae especially the new ones looks shiny! Think I will dose excel as part of my fertilisation routine from now on.

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## JizzHut

hmm as a routine? i dont know. for me, i like to keep my tank chem free as possible. its always to better to drink plain water than coloured water right?

2cents

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## Shadow

different hobyist have different priority. Some prefered the flora, others prefered the fauna.  :Wink:

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## Rokerites

Hi all, having read through the whole thread, Seachem Excel effect on BBA is undoubted. But wonder if it would have the same effect on other type of Algae? For example Thread algae?

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## Shadow

yes it will, it also affect some plants in close proximity. Moss is one of the plant that effected by Excel

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## Navanod

I should add that liverwort and bladderwort mosses suffer the worst from excel. I had also experienced loss for Vallisneria sp. The roots seemed to rot and the strands of leaves simply break off and float away

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## barmby

Likewise, I experienced loss for Blyxaa japonica if excel is overdose

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## kenny

I tried double dosing excel on twice, the second time 3 days after the first. 50ml of Excel into my 200L tank... 
No effect on BBA, Blyxa japonica, Vallisneria nana etc...... 

My Excel expired ??  :Sad:

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## Navanod

> I tried double dosing excel on twice, the second time 3 days after the first. 50ml of Excel into my 200L tank... 
> No effect on BBA, Blyxa japonica, Vallisneria nana etc...... 
> 
> My Excel expired ??


Thats more than doubled bro. 200L is 5ml per day/2 days according to Seachem.
You were doing 10 times. But did you aim it at the larger BBA patches? Did you stop your filters so there's no water flow for about 10 mins? And the treatment should be continued for 14 days with daily overdoses (but maybe not at 10X bro, cut back abit), ideally just before lights off.
Do change at least 40% water a week during the 2 weeks treatment too
Hope that helps. I don't have it down to an art, but that was my SOP after reading alot and trying it out

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## kenny

Instructions: "_On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L_", which means a single dosage is 25ml/200L , and double dose is 50ml/200L, no?

It was told to me by one of the LFS's boss, who said he is able to kill off BBA by adding Excel just one time at that dosage. And he repeated his success 3 times. No need for aiming and stopping water flow, just dump it in. Or was the failure due to dosing when the lights are on ?  :Very Happy:

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## Shadow

amazing that your fauna are ok at that level. My experience shrimps start dying after 3x recomended dosage

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## Navanod

> Instructions: "_On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L_", which means a single dosage is 25ml/200L , and double dose is 50ml/200L, no?
> 
> It was told to me by one of the LFS's boss, who said he is able to kill off BBA by adding Excel just one time at that dosage. And he repeated his success 3 times. No need for aiming and stopping water flow, just dump it in. Or was the failure due to dosing when the lights are on ?


Normally, when people speak of double dose, they mean over the daily dose, not the after waterchange dose.
Excel breaks down in the presence of light, the stronger, the faster. And the plants probably uptake quite abit as well when they photosynthesize.

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## JizzHut

pardon me, but i don't think plants take in the chem during photosynthesize? it will stunned them but they wont take in ?

pros please enlighten me

many thankss

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## kenny

> amazing that your fauna are ok at that level. My experience shrimps start dying after 3x recomended dosage


Haha ! That's why I wonder if my Excel actually does work at the original strength. But I does kill BBA when I aim it directly at the algae. But I give up doing that in my bigger tank which is 2 feet deep... :Crying: 




> Normally, when people speak of double dose, they mean over the daily dose, not the after waterchange dose.
> Excel breaks down in the presence of light, the stronger, the faster. And the plants probably uptake quite abit as well when they photosynthesize.


I see.... thanks for the clarification. This is quite hard to understand. The "initial use/ major water change" rec'd dose is 4 times higher than the "thereafter" dose. 

I looked at o2bubble's original post and he too got the info from Chan (NA), whom I got the "double dosage" from. 

o2bubble, so care to share how much you Excel you used? Seems like your BBA started dying after the first day...mine doesn't.. :Sad:

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## barmby

> o2bubble, so care to share how much you Excel you used? Seems like your BBA started dying after the first day...mine doesn't..





> It was told to me by one of the LFS's boss, who said he is able to kill off BBA by adding Excel just one time at that dosage. And he repeated his success 3 times. No need for aiming and stopping water flow, just dump it in. Or was the failure due to dosing when the lights are on ?



Kenny, your inability to kill off BBA with excel dose merely represented the inherent issues that your tank had being having. The need to address the greater issue becomes even greater after reading your feedback on Seachem Excel.

There is need to crank up CO2 perhaps?

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## o2bubble

Kenny, are you running UV? UV will breakdown excel component and render it useless from what I gathered from the other forums. Otherwise, the effects of excel against algae especially BBA is tried and tested by many already. Do a search on the web to find out more  :Smile:

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## Navanod

> Kenny, your inability to kill off BBA with excel dose merely represented the inherent issues that your tank had being having. The need to address the greater issue becomes even greater after reading your feedback on Seachem Excel.
> 
> There is need to crank up CO2 perhaps?


I concur...it is possible that the conditions are so good for the BBAs that they're growing faster than the excel can kill them.
Or maybe, the water is so polluted and high in organic waste that the excel was wasted on these waste instead. Keep in mind that excel kills by being a reducing agent...it reduces whatever waste in the water first before the remainders attack the surfaces of plants and tank decors. That is why its more effective to spray the excel at the algae instead of just dumping

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## ne0matr1x

> Just to share that my tank is having BBA outbreak currently and per Mr chan's (from NA) recommendation to use double dosage for Excel for 3 days now and it works! BBA turned red and I'm waiting to see if they will turn white and die off. My SAE and yamatos are starting to feast on the dying BBA 
> 
> I think the trigger was my Co2 level which dropped due to CO2 tank almost empty. Topped up and blast it to 30 ppm now.


Hi Bro, you mentioned that SAE and yamatos will feast on the dying BBA. How about other shrimps like cherries, Malayan and CRS? Will they feast on those too? Sorry to ask cos I also having BBA but I don't have SAE or Yamatos  :Opps:

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## Shadow

if the BBA is treated with excel then yes they will. In my experience Chery, Malayan, Yamato, etc will eat the BBA that turn white. Only SAE will eat the one that still black but you need to starve them

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## ne0matr1x

> if the BBA is treated with excel then yes they will. In my experience Chery, Malayan, Yamato, etc will eat the BBA that turn white. Only SAE will eat the one that still black but you need to starve them


SAE will eat black BBA? Wha, too bad I've shrimps in there  :Flame:

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## Puffer

My experience with Excel: I use injection method directly at the affected areas, but I do this when during photoperiod. Best if during the early photoperiod. I did twice dosed toward end of photoperiod and the following day, shrimps died on me - the most noted casualties are yamatoes, sakura, malayan in that order. Nothing happens now as I dose in the early morning.

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## Puffer

> Hi Bro, you mentioned that SAE and yamatos will feast on the dying BBA. How about other shrimps like cherries, Malayan and CRS? Will they feast on those too? Sorry to ask cos I also having BBA but I don't have SAE or Yamatos


Yes malayan and cherry shrimps do feed on the pinkish and whitish dying bba. Even my ancistrus love munching them. To add on: using direct injection of excel need see result after one or two tries. You will see the dark bba turn pinkish then to whitish. They will be gone after being feasted by the mentioned creatures.

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