# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Anabantoids >  Wild Bettas

## Mudskipper

I saw the pics of Johannes wild bettas in the classifieds and completely feel head over heels in love with them. I was wondering if someone could help me. I wonder:

1. Can they be kept in a community tank with other small fish like Endlers?
2. Do they need to have the black water supplements or those ketapang leaves?
3. Are they very aggressive?
4. Are there any captive bred ones? it would break my heart to have to buy a pair from the wild as I strongly feel they should be left there...unless of course, I can't find them ... then screw it.
5. What are potential companion fishes for them?

Thank you.

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## Jitticus

It's great to see another guy picking up the hobby. It's not for everyone, and it takes a lot of effort to stay in the wild betta scene. Here are some answers to your questions


1. Can they be kept in a community tank with other small fish like Endlers?
In general, no, as bettas do have a tendency to show excessive aggression to those who are milder than they are, and conversely, they are stressed out by other faster fish. Endlers might end up getting eaten.

2. Do they need to have the black water supplements or those ketapang leaves?
Almost all species of betta will appreciate black water, but i find that all of them can be acclimatized to aged tap water with no adverse effects to their health. Albeit you'll find that they color up nicely in lower pH waters, if you find that lowering pH is too much of a trouble, then neutral soft water will do. 

3. Are they very aggressive?
Definitely. Conspecific and congeneric aggression is quite high, although species like patoti and splendens do have bigger reputation of killing their tankmates when they reach maturity. 

4. Are there any captive bred ones? it would break my heart to have to buy a pair from the wild as I strongly feel they should be left there...unless of course, I can't find them ... then screw it.
You can find lots of captive bred ones. I'm sure almost all the aquarium shops in Singapore carry them at one time or another. Alternatively, the market place in AQ is a fine place to look for your wish-list items.

5. What are potential companion fishes for them?
They do best in monospecific tanks.

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## Mudskipper

Hey there, thank you for your answers. I plan on reading up more about them before jumping into the shopping phase. Now that I know they are better by themselves, I'll begin planning for that too. Thank you again for your reply.

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## johannes

for no.3, depends on the species, certain species can co-exist peacefully with just occasional nipping.
the key is the tank size and presence of vegetation so that the smaller/weaker fish has plenty of hiding space to hide.
any other questions, feel free to post here. :Smile:

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## Mudskipper

Thanks for your kind reply. I plan on setting up a 1 foot cube with an Eden 501 for this purpose. More than likely will just keep a pair of wild bettas with some otos and/or cories to take care of algae and excess food. And plant it, plant it, plant it. Once it's all stable, I'll look for the bettas that I want. Going to research them more for now.

If you, by chance, have any others that you want to offload...think of me. We're in the same neighbourhood so it will be VERY easy for me to pick them up. Cheers!

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## johannes

For wild betta tank, slow flowing water is preferred. if you are using eden 501, you can use the dense vegetation to break the strong flow from the filter output. most of the time i will only use hang on filter (small) for a small wild betta tank. 2 ft onwards then i will use canister.
normally my 3 sides of the tank would be pasted with black oyama to make the more shy species feel more secure.

here are some examples of my ex-wild betta tanks (abit on the messy sides but works... :Grin: ):


1.5 ft


2ft


2ft


2ft


2.5ft

for 1ft cube and smaller, the concept is the same.
the set-up above are more for mouthbrooders.

for bubblenester, it will be something llike this (no filtration):

1ft by 20cm by 20 cm

top view 


most of the time i will use ketapang leaves to stain the water and also can act as hiding place for the fishes, it's just that the leaves are not inside during the phototaking.
please remove the leaves when they start to soften and decompose and then add new leaves.

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## Mudskipper

Wow, the decisions I have to make. Giving me a headache. 

I actually thought that wild bettas were smaller than the way they look in the photos. I went to Biotope in Woodlands and looked at their 1 foot square tanks. I have a few hang on filters too...maybe should use those for the 1 foot square tank. They had some dwarf cories there too...so cute, I just have to have some of those. 

How big do the Betta Channoides and Betta Tussyae get? Are there any smaller yet colourful (not like the big-fin fighting fish type colour) wild bettas I should look into? Ok, I will admit it. If it's pretty...I want it. 

Thanks!!

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## sheng

May be you can consider Betta rutilans, but now it out of stock.
They are small in size

http://www.midori-sg.com/product.php...te=-1&cate=117

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## Luc Tango

channoides get up to about 2 inch plus thereabouts. those that I had were pretty peaceful, never even touched the cherry shrimps in their tanks. ( cannnot vouch for the shrimplets though  :Roll Eyes: )

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## Mudskipper

> May be you can consider Betta rutilans, but now it out of stock.
> They are small in size



I noticed those too. I can wait, I don't have anything set up yet. And at that price? Hey...can't go wrong. Would be a good Wild Betta to start and learn with.

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## Mudskipper

> channoides get up to about 2 inch plus thereabouts. those that I had were pretty peaceful, never even touched the cherry shrimps in their tanks. ( cannnot vouch for the shrimplets though )


That's not too bad. I noticed that in some pics I've been looking at while doing searches online, there are a few that look quite big. Maybe it's just my perception. I think that 2-3 inches is quite all right for a pair of fishes in a solitary setup. Should be fun to have them with shrimp...I saw shrimplets for the first time today when I went to Biotope. Look like little bugs.

But like I promised myself. No more impulse buying. Must begin planning properly this time around.

Cheers!

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## johannes

if you are only getting 1 pair, you need to decide whether it is a mouthbrooder or bubblenester, then you can plan your tank set up accordingly.

most bubblenester grow up to 6 cm max, except those from bellica complex.
small mouthbrooder would grow up to 6 cm, the bigger mouthbrooders are from unimaculata, pugnax, akarensis and waseri complex. some juvenile/young adults pugnax complex member can still be kept in 1 ft cube tank with minimal aggession.

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## kenny

> I noticed those too. I can wait, I don't have anything set up yet. And at that price? Hey...can't go wrong. Would be a good Wild Betta to start and learn with.


I wouldn't say Betta rutilans are the best for beginners leh, always hiding, hard to sex, amazing jumpers and will tear one anothers' fins...

How about Betta imbellis ? They are small size too.... Males would flare at each other would not really fight, right? They are also known as the "peaceful bettas" after all.... haha
But I haven't seen them in LFS for quite some time already, don't know where to get them.

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## Mudskipper

Hey there. Thanks for the information on the Rutilans. Sounds like they are quite aggressive. hmmm...however, the Imbellis ...well, those are the fighting fish I used to have when I was a kid. I want something more, well, exotic.

I think I pretty much have my heart set on a pair of Channoides. But I'm committed to setting up the tank and cycling it properly before even venturing out to purchase them. So that probably means it won't happen for another month since I'm swamped with work this month. But we'll see if I can curb my impulsive ways.

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## spirit

2nd question.. depend on species..

to answer your 1st and 3rd question, i kept my pugnax and macros together... no serious attack ya...

to answer your 4th question, don't felt guity when you are buying a wildcaught bettas.. because their habitat will be detroyed for logging or road construction etc.. you buy and breed them, this is the best way to preserve them.. 
look at how arowana doing.. sooner or later... they are going remove it from CITES list..wakaka... the market are full of arowana, especially malaysia... the arowana farm are getting more and more.... 
some(*not all*) wildbetta collectors will not tell the locality when they caught wildbetta, they will give the reason, "hey, we need to protect species, if everyone go to catch, the species will gone"... this is all [email protected]@it, they will go to catch again and again.. for sure....
So, buy them and breed them...
for captive bred one.. it is easier to spawn and maintain, because they have get used to the enviroments.. but, i heard some said too much inbreeding, will cause the fish infertile... So, if possible.. outcross your fish..

5th question.. depend on the species as well..

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## Mudskipper

Thanks for your observations. I guess it's true that we're destroying their habitats faster than they can adapt to others.

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## johannes

> i heard some said too much inbreeding, will cause the fish infertile... So, if possible.. outcross your fish..


'too much' is relative, for some, the mention of F2 is horrifying, but others are happy when they manage to acquire F1, F2 or even F3 of the fish that they have been longing to get.

through my experience of breeding wild bettas, etc and literature, inbreeding does cause deformity but infertility is not what i heard/read. moreover, i have experienced breeding up to F3 or F4 and there is minimal or no deformity. even the coloration is somewhat equally stunning as the parents. maybe a little less vibrant but the base coloration is there. Having said that, it is of course better to outross your fishes and get some new wild fishes to increase your gene pool.

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## spirit

Thanks for sharing your experinces.. 
deformity.. ya.. i am sure when you are breeding showbetta, you will find the same problem... 
i came across with some macrostoma with "bump" head.. After consult the seller, he said it is due to inbreeding..
About the infertile problem, i heard someone said about his edithae.. he said it is not easy to spawn... he said the peak is at F3 when the fish are so easy to breed because they have aclimmatise or get use to the enviroment... 
However,i am have no experience on that..
So far, for mouthbrooder...i just able to breed a few speceis include macrostoma, krataois, albimarginata and channoides.. and all of them are F1.. So, i am not sure what happen to next generation...
i saw somewhere online.. there is breeder able to carry the channoides up to F6.

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## johannes

i believe F6 is attainable, kudos to him for maintaining the line!  :Grin: 
i did came across bumps before but not the entire batch so i believe that's not conclusive enough, though.. just my view

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## Mudskipper

Wow. You guys are talking about breeding when all I am concerned about is keeping them alive for now. hehehe very cheem _(local word for deep/complicated)_ man. One step at a time for me. I have so much to learn about from everyone, I am in awe.

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