# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Livebearers >  Small guppy tank

## ownu4free

Hi, i have got a new guppy tank which is around 22x35x25cm. Powered by only a dual sponge filter, with java fern, duckweed and frogbits housing 4 pygmy cories and 2 guppies. Will upload picture soon.

Can any pro out there give me advice? how often should i do water change and should i get another filter?

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## Dscheng

As for small tank, dual sponge filter will eat into your tank space. Plus there is no space to put your bio media.
I will recommend a normal hang on filter. Dolphin H80 / Shirbua P60 type. Behind still got space for you to load bio media.

Is your tank fully cycled? If yes, basically 20% for weekly water change will do. Remember to add water conditioner with tap water.

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## Bieffe

Get a hang on filter (HOF) M size? Then add in some media, don't just use the sponge they give you. Remove the sponge filter and air pump.
For 1st week water change (wc) 25% daily.
2 week wc 25% every 3 days. 
3 week wc 25% weekly?
That's what I will do. Depending how much you feed. After all 2 guppies only.

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## ownu4free

> Get a hang on filter (HOF) M size? Then add in some media, don't just use the sponge they give you. Remove the sponge filter and air pump.
> For 1st week water change (wc) 25% daily.
> 2 week wc 25% every 3 days. 
> 3 week wc 25% weekly?
> That's what I will do. Depending how much you feed. After all 2 guppies only.


Which sponge? the inside one or the outside one? can i still add the new filter in now?

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## ownu4free

> Get a hang on filter (HOF) M size? Then add in some media, don't just use the sponge they give you. Remove the sponge filter and air pump.
> For 1st week water change (wc) 25% daily.
> 2 week wc 25% every 3 days. 
> 3 week wc 25% weekly?
> That's what I will do. Depending how much you feed. After all 2 guppies only.


what media u recommend?

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## Bieffe

Aiyo...I typed so much all gone!
Get Azoo 4 in 1 or UP ceramic rings. And buy 1 bottle ocean free bateria 800. Dose weekly or according to directions not daily!

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## Bieffe

> Which sponge? the inside one or the outside one? can i still add the new filter in now?


The sponge filter inside. But if u have been using for few days already keep it inside 1st and remove later. That's to make use of the good bacteria that maybe growing at the sponge already.

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## ownu4free

> The sponge filter inside. But if u have been using for few days already keep it inside 1st and remove later. That's to make use of the good bacteria that maybe growing at the sponge already.


alright i go out to get now~ how often do you change filter media and how? sorry asked alot, cause new

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## ownu4free

> Aiyo...I typed so much all gone!
> Get Azoo 4 in 1 or UP ceramic rings. And buy 1 bottle ocean free bateria 800. Dose weekly or according to directions not daily!


its 800 or 8000?

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## Dscheng

Bieffe, actually i got leftover a lot of azoo bio-media. I stay northeast area. Do PM me, if you nearby, i can pass to you.

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## Bieffe

> its 800 or 8000?


Ah...I maybe wrong...either or.

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## Bieffe

> alright i go out to get now~ how often do you change filter media and how? sorry asked alot, cause new


Media no need change. Maybe mths when it start to break down to become powdery.
Each time water change, use the same water to flush the media and the sponge.

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## fireblade

actually no need filter also can...just do more frequent water change can already...
I have the smallest guppy tank and the medium one keeping guppies, no filter no bubble at all... when water dirty, change water.. 
make sure you don't feed too much...

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## ownu4free

> Media no need change. Maybe mths when it start to break down to become powdery.
> Each time water change, use the same water to flush the media and the sponge.


flushing the filter wont it dirty the water? do u have air stone in your tank? should i use both hangover filter and spongefilter? or hangover with airstone?

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## Bieffe

I don't like sponge filter. As they take up space inside your tank. So I suggest you take it out.
Air stone also not required. I hate the water/water stains you will get when the bubbles break at the surface.
Flush your filter inside the pail where you suck out the water. Means wash it inside the pail of water that you are actually throwing. Then put back all these then fill up with new water. NOT wash inside the new water.

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## ownu4free

> I don't like sponge filter. As they take up space inside your tank. So I suggest you take it out.
> Air stone also not required. I hate the water/water stains you will get when the bubbles break at the surface.
> Flush your filter inside the pail where you suck out the water. Means wash it inside the pail of water that you are actually throwing. Then put back all these then fill up with new water. NOT wash inside the new water.


Alright, noted. thanks so much for the advice

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## ownu4free

Update on my tank. 
1 pair of guppy 
4 Pygmy Cory 
1 hof 
1 sponge filter ( changing to air stone soon) 
java fern 
frogbits 
duckweed 
sand 

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

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## AQMS

nice  :Well done:

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## ownu4free

> nice


Thanks ! hope they will breed

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## taizi

Anyway , the water flow shouldn't be too powerful

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## ownu4free

IMG_0730.jpgIMG_0722.jpgIMG_0724.jpg

Tank Update! Added 2 more males and 1 more female bought from Yunfeng. 
The males bought from Yunfeng have a shorter tail ( maybe young) but the colour on the body is still similar to the one bought at $18 per pair from seaview. Nonetheless, $3 still worth the price?
The female bought from Yunfeng is bigger, and the body is slightly longer. (maybe older?) Currently not pregnant D: wrong pick!

Any pro out there can point out the differences for me? 

P.S Thanks Interestor and Taizi for sighting the guppies.

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## fireblade

did you quarantine your new bought guppies before adding to your main tank?
they looked stress and a bit sick... just to be safe, better quarantine them ....

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## ownu4free

> did you quarantine your new bought guppies before adding to your main tank?
> they looked stress and a bit sick... just to be safe, better quarantine them ....


i didnt , cause i no more tank already.they seems find now.

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## Bieffe

Where is yu feng I'm at Mainland tropical fish. Cannot find.

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## ownu4free

> Where is yu feng I'm at Mainland tropical fish. Cannot find.


Its at farmway 3 i think. Singapore 518235

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## ownu4free

Tank update. Both of my $3 male from Yunfeng are gone. 1 Died, and another one missing_ (suspect dead and eaten )._ 1 pygmy cory died too getting stuck in the plant  :Sad: 

Not sure what the reason is maybe as said by fireblade they are already sick . Or might be the female one is bullying them. my $9 one is doing very well in the tank.

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## Bieffe

> Its at farmway 3 i think. Singapore 518235


Thanks they shifted. Now is at farmway 3. There is no signboard. But near where all the cars are parked. Google is not updated. Is No. 36 pasir ris farmway 3.

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## Dscheng



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## Bieffe

Not many left and not so nice. $8 for 1 pair

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## ownu4free

> Not many left and not so nice. $8 for 1 pair


got pic of your pair?

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## Bieffe

Tried to post by taptalk. Forever cannot connect to server. Is full bar.

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## ownu4free

> Tried to post by taptalk. Forever cannot connect to server. Is full bar.


Use web browser or computer?

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## Bieffe

Using mobile.

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## Bieffe

> 


Wah....was turning abt at farmway 1 then come farmway 3 almost give up then I saw.

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## ownu4free

> Wah....was turning abt at farmway 1 then come farmway 3 almost give up then I saw.


what guppy did you get?

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## ownu4free

Just bought another 3 guppy at Y618. My old guppy is sick and those from yunfeng up car alr  :Sad: . Hence getting new one and putting them in quarantine. 

image.jpg

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## fireblade

hope that they can do well in your tank  :Smile:

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## Dscheng

> Just bought another 3 guppy at Y618. My old guppy is sick and those from yunfeng up car alr . Hence getting new one and putting them in quarantine. 
> 
> image.jpg


 Nice, actually Y618 there are two type of AFR, the normal one is $5, the AA grade which you can see the fin is larger is $15.

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## taizi

Get from breeders 50 and above  :Smile:

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## ownu4free

Unfortunately one on the male died when in quarantine tank  :Sad:  wondering if it's really me or the guppy.

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## Bieffe

> Unfortunately one on the male died when in quarantine tank  wondering if it's really me or the guppy.


These red albino are a pain to keep. I've also killed many till I simply quit. They need hospital tanks. As in the tank must be super clean. Nothing else inside. Best just a sponge air filter. Change water very very regularly. Once anyone has some signs of fin rot...immediately take out either salt treatment or medi. But changes of survivor very low. With this regime....they are lasting me longer than before. Another issue is the food...feed often but less...so tank is very very clean. Best is bare bottom. With 1 plant.

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## Dscheng

Did you test the water parameter? Usually guppy is the hardy fish one le.. Something very wrong.

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## ownu4free

> Did you test the water parameter? Usually guppy is the hardy fish one le.. Something very wrong.


the one you bought from y618 how are they doing? i bought 3 yesterday, 2 males 1 female. Both the male died already, think the female bit them. Going reset my tank soon, think i am gonna start from non albino first.

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## Dscheng

Oh ya, really have to monitor, some female are really aggressive. I actually seperate out a normal red tail female guppy keep attacking my AFR male. Not sure why too.
So far, my 4 male and 1 female albino are doing well in my planted tank.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Did you test the water parameter? Usually guppy is the hardy fish one le.. Something very wrong.


From my experience, normal and wild-caught guppies are indeed very hardy... but not so with the fancy guppies which have been kept in pristine conditions all their lives and inbred so many times with such a narrow gene pool (which is the only way to isolate certain characteristics) that their immune systems end up much weaker, and they become easily susceptible to illness and infections.

Its the same for most hybrids and fancy fishes, they are just not as hardy as their wild counterparts.

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## ownu4free

> From my experience, normal and wild-caught guppies are indeed very hardy... but not so with the fancy guppies which have been kept in pristine conditions all their lives and inbred so many times with such a narrow gene pool (which is the only way to isolate certain characteristics) that their immune systems end up much weaker, and they become easily susceptible to illness and infections.
> 
> Its the same for most hybrids and fancy fishes, they are just not as hardy as their wild counterparts.


i tried my best to give clean water by doing water change everyday, but no help. Maybe cause the shop owner keep transferring the fish causing stress to them.

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## Guppendler

LFS treat their livstocks as commodities and do not care and feed the fish. Plus the fish are kept in high density conditions, the fish develop stress very easily. Sometimes dead fish are not even remove quickly and disease spreads

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## ownu4free

> LFS treat their livstocks as commodities and do not care and feed the fish. Plus the fish are kept in high density conditions, the fish develop stress very easily. Sometimes dead fish are not even remove quickly and disease spreads


i really have no idea where the problems lies, is it my water or the guppy themselves are weak/stress. My pygmy cory are doing fine in the same tank, and only the guppy are having problem. Guess i should wait till my female guppy drop and try to raise them. If it fail then i shall quit albino D:

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## tetrakid

> Did you test the water parameter? Usually guppy is the hardy fish one le.. Something very wrong.


Yes that is true. I remember when I was young I kept many guppies in a rusted 4-gallon paint can. They were breeding like nobody's business until I have to regularly throw them away to avoid overcrowding my tanks. If fish can breed it means they are healthy and comfortable. Stressed and sick fish never breed.

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## tetrakid

> i really have no idea where the problems lies, is it my water or the guppy themselves are weak/stress. My pygmy cory are doing fine in the same tank, and only the guppy are having problem. Guess i should wait till my female guppy drop and try to raise them. If it fail then i shall quit albino D:


Why you don't get Guorami to build up your basic experience first? If you are new to fish hobby and you start with expensive fish, it is a waste of money, because you do not have enoughly knowledge to keep expensive fish. This hobby requires a lot of knowledge.

I say Guorami because it is not only beautiful and cheap (not expensive like discus or arrowana) I, and it is not very demanding in water conditions. They can survive long even in bad conditions eg lack of oxygen, bad water, etc. You can even train them to eat rock-hard food, just like Bettas. Actually they also came down from the Betta ancestors, but they are not so interested in fighting, but only like to chase other Guoramis away. You can gain a lot of valuable experience with Guoramis without losing a lot of money.

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## tetrakid

> i tried my best to give clean water by doing water change everyday, but no help. Maybe cause the shop owner keep transferring the fish causing stress to them.


Cannot blame the shop owners. First you must get a lot of knowledge by reading before you buy fish. If you can't wait. it is best to buy a packet of mixed feeder fish to gain experience first. Also if you are able to cycle a tank (can be a few months), then you will not have much problems.

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## Interestor

:Well done: 




> Cannot blame the shop owners. First you must get a lot of knowledge by reading before you buy fish. If you can't wait. it is best to buy a packet of mixed feeder fish to gain experience first. Also if you are able to cycle a tank (can be a few months), then you will not have much problems.

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## fireblade

Sorry I don't quite agree with getting feeder guppies, some mentioned that they die more easily...
Gourami is nice and cheap I agree, but I have no luck with them, after a while they deform and die on me.
maybe can try other strains of guppies and not albinos... albinos tend to be more fragile.
since you still have the females left, I will advice not mixing other guppies but wait for 1 month or so to see if the females give birth or not.




> Cannot blame the shop owners. First you must get a lot of knowledge by reading before you buy fish. If you can't wait. it is best to buy a packet of mixed feeder fish to gain experience first. Also if you are able to cycle a tank (can be a few months), then you will not have much problems.

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## tetrakid

> Sorry I don't quite agree with getting feeder guppies, some mentioned that they die more easily...
> Gourami is nice and cheap I agree, but I have no luck with them, after a while they deform and die on me.
> maybe can try other strains of guppies and not albinos... albinos tend to be more fragile............


To me, all fish die easily. That is why I don't advice beginners to start with expensive fish. Usually beginners, especially those who can afford expensive fish, will start with expensive fish. That is normal and nothing wrong with that. But pity the poor fishes. Expensive fish need expert care.

I have kept simple fish like Platys, Guppies, Guoramis, Luohans, Goldfish, Tetras, Cory Sterbais, Neon Tetras, Puffers, Oscars, etc. All have different characters and idiosycracies. I now only look for easy to keep fish which is simple to maintain with a routine.

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## fireblade

agreed with that ...

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## tetrakid

> agreed with that ...


Not so long ago I had some Cory Sterbais. They are very cute little fish, especially when they all park at the tank bottom.

But what I don't like about C. Sterbais is that though they have big and attractive eyes, they can't even see anything which is right in front of them. So if you keep them in a mixed tank, they will lose out during feeding time. They are only good at blindly charging at Tubifex worms they can smell at the bottom of the tank, or digging for worms at night in darkness.

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## ownu4free

> To me, all fish die easily. That is why I don't advice beginners to start with expensive fish. Usually beginners, especially those who can afford expensive fish, will start with expensive fish. That is normal and nothing wrong with that. But pity the poor fishes. Expensive fish need expert care.
> 
> I have kept simple fish like Platys, Guppies, Guoramis, Luohans, Goldfish, Tetras, Cory Sterbais, Neon Tetras, Puffers, Oscars, etc. All have different characters and idiosycracies. I now only look for easy to keep fish which is simple to maintain with a routine.


thx for the advice, i'm starting with low grade pairs and not those high end one. As for feeders, they are prone to diseases such as ich as they are cramp in such a small tank,hence need more care.

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## tetrakid

> thx for the advice, i'm starting with low grade pairs and not those high end one. As for feeders, they are prone to diseases such as ich as they are cramp in such a small tank,hence need more care.


Nowadays, feeder fish are of high quality. You can choose the best bags containing the best fish you see. Sometimes you can get very good specimens because the farmers have no time to sort out every bag.

You are right, low-grade high-end fish is also another great way to gain experience.

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## Dscheng

i have total 5 male AFR and one female. One just dead yesterday, it had been suffering for 2 days, nothing i can do. The most i separate it out into my breeder box. Sigh  :Sad: 
Guess it is sick, the rest still doing fine. The female also give birth, is AFR, but strangely the fry has no red eyes? Both the parents with red eyes and albino breed?

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## ownu4free

> Nowadays, feeder fish are of high quality. You can choose the best bags containing the best fish you see. Sometimes you can get very good specimens because the farmers have no time to sort out every bag.
> 
> You are right, low-grade high-end fish is also another great way to gain experience.


where do your usually patronize to get your fish?

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## tetrakid

> where do your usually patronize to get your fish?


I buy my fishes from everywhere, usually at neighbourhood LFS in AMK or Bishan, etc. I also visit Nanyang Seaview, C328, Polyart, and also Pet Walk at Serangoon. All very nice shops. One day I must visit Pasir Ris Farmway too.  :Smile:

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## Dscheng

> where do your usually patronize to get your fish?


What kind of fish you talking about? For me, below.

1) Y618 / C328 = Cherry red/yellow shrimp, yamato, malayan shrimp (Cheapest shrimp price), they have Oto, AFR, normal grade guppies and other many fishes
2) Seaview = Pymgy cory, tetra, guppes and equipment, etc
3) Fishy business = Been there once only, atas equipment, nice fishes but expensive price tag
4) Green chapter = Super overpriced, nice to view, but not to buy.
5) Qian Hu = Nice place to relax and see lotsa fishes, nice place to buy gourami
6) OTF = A lot of fishes too
7) JZX = A lot of exotic bottom feeding fish

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## ownu4free

> What kind of fish you talking about? For me, below.
> 
> 1) Y618 / C328 = Cherry red/yellow shrimp, yamato, malayan shrimp (Cheapest shrimp price), they have Oto, AFR, normal grade guppies and other many fishes
> 2) Seaview = Pymgy cory, tetra, guppes and equipment, etc
> 3) Fishy business = Been there once only, atas equipment, nice fishes but expensive price tag
> 4) Green chapter = Super overpriced, nice to view, but not to buy.
> 5) Qian Hu = Nice place to relax and see lotsa fishes, nice place to buy gourami
> 6) OTF = A lot of fishes too
> 7) JZX = A lot of exotic bottom feeding fish


seaview have Pygmy? Where they place it and how much. Tried to find them but can't

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## Dscheng

Last week I saw a lot of juvenile Pygmy Cory. They located beside oto and SAE. Just beside the shrimp area. But always out of stock. Do keep a lookout.

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## tetrakid

"JZX = A lot of exotic bottom feeding fish"

The last time I went to AMK JZX some months back, they have dismantled some tanks. Are they closing or under renovation? Any idea?
They had good quality fish, a lot of Corys too. Very good service.

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## tetrakid

Whenever I come across any LFS, I always come alive. LOL.  :Smile:

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## Dscheng

> "JZX = A lot of exotic bottom feeding fish"
> 
> The last time I went to AMK JZX some months back, they have dismantled some tanks. Are they closing or under renovation? Any idea?
> They had good quality fish, a lot of Corys too. Very good service.


 maybe going some maintenance. Ya really a lot of Cory.

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## jkcs

> Update on my tank. 
> 1 pair of guppy 
> 4 Pygmy Cory 
> 1 hof 
> 1 sponge filter ( changing to air stone soon) 
> java fern 
> frogbits 
> duckweed 
> sand 
> ...


Hi ownu4free,
how do u maintain the leafty water plant to prevent the leaves from dying (hope you understand what I mean). Does switching on aquarium light for 2 hrs a day helps?




> did you quarantine your new bought guppies before adding to your main tank?
> they looked stress and a bit sick... just to be safe, better quarantine them ....


Hi Fireblade,
when we moved quarantined fish to the main tank, doesn't it stressed the fish since the 2 tanks will have different water temperature and conditions?

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## fireblade

> Hi ownu4free,
> how do u maintain the leafty water plant to prevent the leaves from dying (hope you understand what I mean). Does switching on aquarium light for 2 hrs a day helps?
> 
> Hi Fireblade,
> when we moved quarantined fish to the main tank, doesn't it stressed the fish since the 2 tanks will have different water temperature and conditions?


Normally home water is almost having the same parameters.. 
Unless you add different things in your tanks to alter the parameters , should you have done that, then before introducing your fish you just mix some water from your main tank to the quarantine tank or scoop the fish to a small container and mix the 2 water slowly . 

The reason of quarantine the new fish is to minimise disease from LFS spreading to your other fishes at home. and create a big headache after that.

To answer your water plant question, 2 hours is not enough for ferns.. maybe 4 to 6 hours is good enough. also note that Ferns are low requirement plant, having too much light will cause algea to bloom...

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## joshthebest

You could add some moss imo. to enhance water quality

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## Dscheng

My female AFR recently become very aggressive, keep attacking the male. Her body seem like super blown pregnant. Is it the norm behavior of pregnant guppy? Should i separate it out?

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## ownu4free

> My female AFR recently become very aggressive, keep attacking the male. Her body seem like super blown pregnant. Is it the norm behavior of pregnant guppy? Should i separate it out?


Got photo of your tank ?

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## Bieffe

> Hi ownu4free,
> how do u maintain the leafty water plant to prevent the leaves from dying (hope you understand what I mean). Does switching on aquarium light for 2 hrs a day helps?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Fireblade,
> when we moved quarantined fish to the main tank, doesn't it stressed the fish since the 2 tanks will have different water temperature and conditions?


The quarantine process is super important. I learnt it the hard way. The disease is worst than the shock of changing to 2 tanks. But in fact is ok.
After quarantine, I soak into main tank. That will allow them to get comfortable. Then just net them into main tank after 30mins. Sure no stress u can see from their reaction.

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## Bieffe

> My female AFR recently become very aggressive, keep attacking the male. Her body seem like super blown pregnant. Is it the norm behavior of pregnant guppy? Should i separate it out?


I did it once and didn't do it once. Many fries died. But less eye sore. Make me worry to see such agressive action. Typical girl lah...boy want woman don't want....heheheh

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