# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  Hairgrass melting terribly

## chinjaysquare

I bought some eleocharis acicularis (dwarf hair-grass) 10 days ago and it was so green and lovely. Now, it seems to be dying off-- turning brown and melting all over the place. It simply look battered up and mangled. 
My tank is 29.5cm(L) by 14.5cm(B) by 19.5cm(H). In other words it's is only 8.341125 litres. Nevertheless the tank is not a new one. The system has been up since late 2009 and thus to a certain extend already stable. The lighting is by Dymax's Robot LED Clip Light (rated 1.6W) I do not dose any fertiliser nor have any injection of carbon dioxide. Nonetheless I do add approx. 1 ml of SeaChem's Flourish Excel every other day. As for my water temperature, it has been always constant at 29 degrees Celsius despite not having any heater in the system. 
It is disheartening to see the hair-grass, which is said to be easy to grow, turn brown and melt in the tank.

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## diazman

The hairgrass will melt in new setups. I have some in my tank but they making recovery pretty nicely. However, i feel that your lighting may not be suitable. You probably may want to change to PL lightset or something. The substrate look coarse too. Did it have any base fert?

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## odin

I tried using LED lightings before and it didnt work out for me. Now using FL.

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## wongce

I suspect insufficient light, Cheap versions of LED are more for aesthetic,not for plants. So far only those high end led seems to be able to grow plants properly. 

TS,Can share your tank set up? Like soil,photoperiod etc.

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## Aquanoob

I don't think is the light issue. I am growing hairgrass in my 20cm tank with Dymax LED light. Gex green pack soil, a sponge filter and a temperature of about 30+- all the time. They are growing slowly and not melting. I think your hairgrass is lacking nutrient as you are using pebbles.

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## diazman

i recently replaced my diy set for a dymax 15 watts FL. the hairgass still hold but my e tenellus is exploding. i pump Co2 though

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## felix_fx2

The setup has been since 2009 correct?
Think your roboled might have reached it's useful period.

LEDs have longer lifespan. Much longer then t5-t8, But their not forever giving out light that can grow plants.

Think this part, leaves much to debat as there is no confirmed period as of yet.

Also, the pictures at a glance. Do mind me being frank.
Does not look like a matured tank from 2009, the hairgrass planted in gravel should have at least some growth.

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## chinjaysquare

Thank you for your inputs! As for the light I will not be able to change it soon because I'll have to scout for one that fits the tight space I have and is nice to my pocket. Nevertheless I can do something about fertilising the gravel. I am thinking of getting root tabs because I tend to get the dosage for liquid ones wrongly (it is hard when you have a small tank and the solutions are so concentrated that a drip is meant for much more water) Any suggestion on which root tabs?

@ felix_fx2 no I do not mind you being frank. As a matter of fact I have to agree with you. Although it has already been running since 2009, it doesn't seem to be mature at all for I have no idea what I was doing until early this year. I guess that was coupled with the fact that I have redone the whole last month.

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## greenie

> Think your roboled might have reached it's useful period.


I say this statement is misleading. LEDs don't deteriorate like FL tubes. They last 10 years easily.

To TS, I believe your substrate is one of the culprit. Your hairgrass cannot start rooting with only that gravel substrate.

I suggest you overhaul your substrate. Putting root-tab might not work as your HG needs to have new root system to flourish.

I started keeping HG years ago using garden soil available at NTUC, the compost type at bottom layer and then adding the gravel you are using on top.

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## dc88

Your HG melting could be just transforming from emersed leaf to submersed leaf.
You can help speed up this process by trimming the HG (cut away the emersed leaf leaving only about 1cm length) before you plant them.
The new leaf will grow very fast if condition is right while the older leaf will slowly melted. (My recent experience is within 2 weeks of planting the new leaf already come out and also some runner already start spreading).
Suggest you should add CO2 to begin with in addition to dosing Excel as it may take some time for HG to able to use the Excel form of carbon.
A simple DIY CO2 through an air-stone should be enough for your tank size. Put in the air-stone only when the day time, remove it at night.
Also adding fert is important (NPK and trace). In my case I use EI method and 50% water change weekly.

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## thebaldingaquarist

You may want to look into ferting your gravel, if you have not done so.

If the gravel has a fert base, then you might want to look at dc88 bro's reply.

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## chinjaysquare

Thank you for your replies. 

@Greenie, I have to agree with you about LED lights not able to degenerate. I do also have to agree with you that overhauling the substrate will be the easiest way for the dwarf hairgrass to carpet. Nonetheless I currently have neither the financial means nor the time to do so. On top of that, my gravel layer is outrageously thick (Used the whole pack when I first bought the tank and other equipment. Although it was a small pack, my tank is just too small), overhauling it will take forever. I guess I'll stick to trying hard to fertilise the gravel and be really really patient. Thanks for your reply though. I really appreciate that.

@Erctheanda I've purchased Seachem's Flourish Tabs and have inserted them into my gravel. I think I kinda saturate the gravel because I nearly doubled the dosage. Nevertheless considering how deep I'm place one of them and how far I have spread them, it should be fine. The plants seem fine too after 2 days. The dosing of Seachem's Flourish Excel still go on daily. The dwarf hairgrass is so much greener now.

@dc88, regarding the injection of carbon dioxide, I am rather apprehensive. It was taught during Chemistry lessons that carbon dioxide dissolves in water to form carbonic acid, decreasing pH. I just used my uncle's API 5 in 1 test-strip. The results are a little extreme. The general hardness is around 180ppm (10ºdGH), carbonate hardness is in between 180ppm (10ºdKH) to about 240 (13.4ºdKH). pH on the other hand is coming in at around 6.5 towards 7.0. The only "average" results are for Nitrite with less than 0.5ppm (close to 0) and Nitrates with slightly less than 40ppm. I have read that the API test strips are barely reliable. Although I will not rely totally on the above mentioned results, neither will I risk jeopardising already lopsided pH balance. 

Speaking of which, do you all have any suggestions of good (and of course wallet friendly) test kits?

Thanks in advance.

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## felix_fx2

Hi greenie

In a way, it might seem to be misleading. not that i do not agree that leds last 10 years easily.
we are looking at a little known section of led, the PAR value it emits.... Else the higher ended LED sets will not have replacement.

We all know T5/T8 after 6 months or so will degrade and no longer provide useful lighting for plants.
LED still pretty unknown for this, if you know something about it will be very happy to see you provide me a link which someone tested.

But i do agree the HG's might be having a malnourished substrate. It might be stunting the growth that may have been the reason with not much spreading.

BTW, i am still using topsoil + lapis in some setups. Who says old school setup's ain't great  :Very Happy: 

Hi chinjaysquare,

Do take test strips as a guage, i also use them and find their not so accurate.
You can check the price of the basic very few liquid test kits. GH/KH/PH/NO3 by Sera. It should be $50 odd but acceptable (but it's expensive to someone who barely uses them)

Wow, you have good chemistry base  :Smile:  , i already returned it to school hehe

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## dc88

Interesting data: 
Carbonate hardness is in between 180ppm (10ºdKH) to about 240 (13.4ºdKH). pH on the other hand is coming in at around 6.5 towards 7.0.
Your CO2 would be theoretically between 40 to 98ppm without CO2 injection ? (Excel will not result this though)
btw HG if in the emersed form will melt when submersed anyway. The trick I learnt (from the experts) is to trim away the emersed leaf before planting them.
(leave only 5~10mm length of the old leaf).
So that even it melts the mess will not pollute the substrate area that much. And so the new leaf (submersed form) can grow fast.
My suggestion you need not change the substrate. Just give it a good vacuum (sometime old substrate has too high accumulation of toxic deep in, such as NH3, H2S etc), try a new batch of HG proper trimmed. And take care of the water column fert (NPK) and CO2 (Excel is fine if you worry about low PH with CO2 inject). Lower the water temperature with fan may help too. (=<28C).

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## Shadow

> Interesting data: 
> Carbonate hardness is in between 180ppm (10ºdKH) to about 240 (13.4ºdKH). pH on the other hand is coming in at around 6.5 towards 7.0.
> Your CO2 would be theoretically between 40 to 98ppm without CO2 injection ?


No need to be surprise, that is why you cannot use ph/kh table to determine CO2 level. The table was formulated with assumption that the ph is solely cause by CO2 which we all know it not true.

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## chinjaysquare

As expected the carbonate hardness isn't as high as what the API test strip indicated. I had tested using Sera's KH test kit and return with KH of 7ºdKH.  :Cool:

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## felix_fx2

> I say this statement is misleading. LEDs don't deteriorate like FL tubes. They last 10 years easily.


Here's something i found off marine depot
Bulb Types Life of Bulb*
Normal Output Fluorescent 6-12 months
Very High Output (VHO) 6-12 months
Power Compact (PC) 9-12 months
T5 High Output (T5HO) 9-18 months
Metal Halide 9-12 months
LED (non-moonlight) ~5 years (50,000 hours)

_* Manufacturer Recommendations_

Reference
http://kb.marinedepot.com/article.aspx?id=10857

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