# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Aquatic Moss Club >  Question on Java and Singapore moss

## Robert Hudson

Man, you guys are the moss KINGS! What I would like to know then, as a commercial buyer/importer, when I order and import Java moss, listed as being both Java moss and Vesicularia dubyana by Sunny Aquarium in both Indonesia and Singapore, what specie am I actually getting? Java moss or Singapore moss? I get it by the Kilo for 12 bucks. It is very very short stubby strands with branches. It is like tiny bits and peices. In water it turns brown and dies very quickly, making it extremely difficult to keep healthy in bulk for very long. My guess is it is grown emersed and this is the emersed growth form. Also, it dies quickly when a lot of it is layered on top of each other. 

I spend a lot more money getting "Singapore" moss grown submersed...quite a bit more money, but it remains healthy forever. Am I getting the same specie in each case? Does anybody know what species are being commercially grown by the big growers in Singapore like Sunny and Oriental Aquarium?

Even regular Java moss is no longer grown commercially in the USA. When it was available, it was not these stubby bits and peices, but very long green strands bunched together, but even this was difficult to keep healthy unless you kept it spread out very thinly, which is near impossible for stores to do and for suppliers to keep it in bulk this way. I think this is why the major grower in the USA discontinued it. It was jut too difficult to manage.

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## timebomb

Robert, 

Actually the best people to answer your questions would be the good folks at Sunny and Oriental Aquariums but I'll try and answer some of them. 

If they are short and stubby and come in bits and pieces, chances are it's Singapore Moss. I'm not sure if Oriental is growing them now but when I was there back in May 2003, I didn't see any Singapore Moss. They did have a lot of Java Moss though, grown emersed on wet floors. Here's the picture:


In the local fish shops, one often finds emersed Singapore Moss for sale. They come in rectangular mat forms. I know they are grown emersed because there's always some soil on the under side of the mats. I'm not sure if Oriental or Sunny Aquariums are the distributors of these mat forms of Singapore Moss but my guess is the moss is grown in Malaysia.

I have never been to Sunny Aquarium and I don't know anyone there but I believe Oriental is using the correct scientific names for the various mosses now. 

Sorry I couldn't be of much help, Robert but that's all I know. I'm surprised, however, to hear from you that the mosses die easily over where you are. As far as I know, mosses are pretty hardy plants. If spreading them apart is what keeps them alive and space is the problem, one solution would be to tie the mosses to driftwoods. That would definitely take up more space, of course but the mosses would then be value-added. Here, plants tied to driftwoods are sold at higher prices, if you know what I mean.

Loh K L

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## Green Baron

> Man, you guys are the moss KINGS! What I would like to know then, as a commercial buyer/importer, when I order and import Java moss, listed as being both Java moss and Vesicularia dubyana by Sunny Aquarium in both Indonesia and Singapore, what specie am I actually getting? Java moss or Singapore moss? I get it by the Kilo for 12 bucks. It is very very short stubby strands with branches. It is like tiny bits and peices. In water it turns brown and dies very quickly, making it extremely difficult to keep healthy in bulk for very long. My guess is it is grown emersed and this is the emersed growth form. Also, it dies quickly when a lot of it is layered on top of each other.


Robert,
Java moss was previously known as _Vesicularia dubyana_. The correct name is actually _Taxiphyllum barbieri_ but many shops and books still refer to Java Moss as _Vesicularia dubyana_. 

If what you get is short stubby strands with branches and tiny pieces, then it is most likely a Vesicularia sp, probably Singapore Moss. Java Moss stand tend to be longer, less branchy and does not break up so easily.

It is generally easier to propogate Vesicularia mosses (Singapore, Christmas, Weeping moss) emersed. When grown submersed, Vesicularia tend to grow better when attached to someting. We usually attach them to wood or wire/plastic mesh. 

Taxiphyllum moss (Java, Taiwan, Spiky moss) is more adaptable and easier to grow than Vesicularia. I believe they grow faster submersed than emersed. We usually leave Java Moss floating in the tank and they will fill up the whole tank in no time. I am surprised to learn that you have problem keeping Java Moss.

The key in growing/keeping any mosses is to grow them in clean, flowing cold water with low to medium light.

Hope this helps.

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## hwchoy

Robert, in general if they list it as _V. dubyana_ you most likely will get java moss. Knowing the inertia outside of this little moss-mad community, it will take forever, if not never, for the wrong usage to be eradicated.

on the other hand, it is interesting you said that it is difficult to keep moss healthy. over here they seem to thrive on neglect. have you tested your water, perhaps they are too hard?

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## stormhawk

Choy, that might be the main reason for Robert's problems with mosses. Hard water. I think it is pretty prevalent in some parts of the US that rely on groundwater supplies? I think our US members can explain this bit more clearly.

In Singapore, the local tap water comes out as slightly alkaline, then it softens pretty quickly and the pH goes down very fast too after a few days in a tank. Our mosses thrive on neglect, only because we must have accidentally gotten one or two factors working to keep them alive.  :Laughing:

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## whuntley

The only time my mosses really suffered from the "Hudson" effect was when I lived in Modesto, in too-soft water. Adding the slightest bit of salt, to raise the tds a bit and reduce osmotic pressure, made both plants and fish sick. Even my Java Moss and Java Ferns turned brown and ugly.

Adding a few essential electrolytes (Seachem's "Equilibrium") made all the difference in the world. Robert may have similar water in OR, which tends to not have very hard water. 

Snow runoff from the Sierras and Cascades often is over pure granite, and tends to be quite alkaline and ridiculously soft. It is weakly buffered high by silicates, but quickly loses that buffering and gets squirrely about pH. There is almost no Ca or Mg, and maybe no Fe, so it lacks divalent ions that are essential to life. It can also be very low in Potassium, which is essential to balance out any sodium for good cell metabolism. It also has no carbonates (i.e., low KH) which can starve plants and allow very unstable pH.

Java Moss can live in rather strongly brackish water (1/2 sea water, for example) and has always done very well for me in much-harder-water areas. Like any living organism, it does need some of all the "essential electrolytes" as medical types like to misuse the term. It dies if you leave out one or try to raise it in pure RO water.

Wright

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