# Killies Import > Non-Killie Segment >  Pseudomugil signifer fry & hydra

## RonWill

Folks,
I was happy as a fiddle when the _Pseudomugil signifer_ eggs started hatching and as these fry stabilized, diligently transfered them to labelled raising container.

These containers have very aged water and probably lots of infusoria too, so that I need not feed for the first couple of days.

I try to introduce some daphnia before the fry hatches, so hopefully, there'll be baby daphnias. A light squirt of green water keep the critters happy.

Today, when checking on my _signifer_ fry, instead of at least 10, I spotted one miserable fry  :Confused:  Armed with a magnifier, I inspected and was shocked to see a horde of hydra, tentacles busy and tubular-body full with just-introduced daphnia!

Loss of fry aside, I have only one question.

How does one ensure that the water is fry-safe and free of undesired critters... zap 'em through a UV-sterilizer, O3 generator, what??

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## whuntley

The trick is to avoid introducing harmful critters, like Hydra and Cyclops in the first place. 

I once kept pure cultures. like Paramecia, but that was a PITA. Now I just get infusoria from healthy tanks by transferring a bit of Java moss and inoculating it with a drop of Liquifry No 1. I visually check for Hydra when I do it.

Hydra are pretty easy to see, and I got rid of them with an old-fashioned three-step formaldehyde process. New dewormers are supposedly much better and safer. My method kills all the infusoria.  :Crying:  

Wright

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## RonWill

> The trick is to avoid introducing harmful critters, like Hydra and Cyclops in the first place


heh... that I know already. Only thing was that this caught me with my pants down. I should have been more diligent, looking out for these critters [That said, my hindsight is 20/20... it's my foresight that's screwed!  :Opps:  ]




> I once kept pure cultures. like Paramecia, but that was a PITA


 Thought no one would mention this but yes, it seems more work than it's worth sometimes. My harvesting method is to draw directly from the culture, into a small container and then dose as needed into the grow-out trays. My main concern is the quality of the culture water as it does smell somewhat. I'm experimenting with wheat grass grains to achieve a 'cleaner' food source for the paramecium.




> Now I just get infusoria from healthy tanks by transferring a bit of Java moss and inoculating it with a drop of Liquifry No 1


 That's what I used to do... until I got adventurous and fiddled with other methods. I know for certain that 5% Flubenol (Flubendazole) will send the hydra to high heaven but am reluctant... it's an expensive option and definite overkill for the purpose.

Wright, if I use a salt-bath for the moss, will this rid the hydra but spare the infusoria? What's your opinion about O³ sterilization... ie. zap the b**tards and re-introduce infusoria later.

Not exactly in the best of mood now [sorry]

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## whuntley

> snip...
> 
> Wright, if I use a salt-bath for the moss, will this rid the hydra but spare the infusoria? What's your opinion about O³ sterilization... ie. zap the b**tards and re-introduce infusoria later.
> 
> Not exactly in the best of mood now [sorry]


I get that way easily when someone tells me the obvious right after a disaster. Better news on the _gertrudae_ thread, if it helps, any.

I would use bleach to kill anything on the Java Moss. A 19:1 water to 5 1/2% sodium hypochlorite solution will kill the frilly and fine plants if you overdo it. 30 seconds should be enough, I think. That will do in rotifers and paramecia, AFAIK, so you have to reintroduce them.

BTW, Hydra seem to want a solid footing, so I don't recall ever finding them actually on Java Moss. The late Dr. Royal Ingersol used to get teased about the rich Hydra on his Java Moss, so I guess it does happen. I usually find them on stiffer plants and the glass.

Wright

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## RonWill

Wright, I dislike bleaching for the simple reason that I can't rinse/neutralize it adequately, and also my nose ain't that sharp.

When I discovered the Hydra, they were *everywhere*! On container walls, on java moss, under the floating leaves, on long roots and even on a freaking snail! Late Dr. Ingersol was wrongfully teased [poor chap  :Confused:  ]

I'm donned in Mohican war-colors, but not armed with machette. My game plan...

*Hydra VS O³ Generator*

 Hydra infested grow-out container, with more daphnia, other un-ID'ed worms, _Paramecium_ and ramhorn snails. [this will tell me who survives the holocaust!  :Twisted Evil:  ]

 The Ozone Generator used for the experiment. It's a loan from a fellow forumer and if it works, I'll get me one! [the 2 digi-thermos takes it's reading from the sump's last compartment in the rack system running "Henri Filters"]

 Ozone output is fed via regular air-tubing, through the container lid and released from air stone. I taped up excess breathing holes to retain as much ozone as possible.

 The packaging of the ozone unit [sorry, can't read Mandarin  :Opps:  ]

However, other details as printed on the box (quoted word for word. Typos not mine);
* When used with a protein skimmer, ozone helps factionate dissolved and kills harmful bacteria and parasites.

* Ozone will prevent contagion and cure disease.

* Ozone also helps factionate dissolved organics aiding in water clarity.

* Ozone will raise the redox/oxidation reduction potential and help enrich treated water with oxygen.

* Ozone oxidizes undesirable and harmful compounds, rendering them inert, such as nitrous acid.

Wright, I checked Dictionary.com and there's no such word as "factionate". Fractionate, however, means...
To divide or separate into parts; break up.
To separate (a chemical compound) into components, as by distillation or crystallization. 

So what exactly does ozone do to Hydra? How does it "kills harmful bacteria and parasites"?? What does all that lingo mean in layman's term??

Will update later.

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## stormhawk

Ozone is supposedly toxic to invertebrates and even man. Do a Google on "ozone toxicity".

Came up with this link while Googling. Simple enough for a lay person to understand. Red Sea Ozone Test Kit

There's apparently pros and cons about using O3 reactors to kill these critters. I'd suggest you go with the standard flubendazole? treatment you were using with them other invert critters some time ago. 

OT : Ron, I believe the weapon of war for the Mohican or Mohegan people was a tomahawk.. not a machete.  :Laughing:

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## whuntley

> Wright, I dislike bleaching for the simple reason that I can't rinse/neutralize it adequately, and also my nose ain't that sharp.


It is trivial to neutralize. Just use whatever product you use for chlorine or chloramine treatment, and do a chlorine test if you aren't sure. [Never, ever, rely on your nose (or taste) to check for chlorine. Any little bit of ammonium can render it quite tasteless and odorless.]

Bleach is about the safest and easiest to remove of the powerful oxidizers. It digests proteins better than almost anything but enzymes. Sodium thiosulfate (aka hypo or dechlorinator) or any of the dechloraminators render it harmless, if you don't trust a good rinsing.

The only things I have found to resist bleach are trumpet snails (they close their trap door) and _Mycobacterium marinum_ (Fish TB has a waxy, bleach-resistant coating). Otherwise, it seems to be a cheap and universally available disinfectant.

Wright

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## TyroneGenade

Ozone (O3) breaks down spontaneously into O2 and an oxygen radiacal O- (not the correct symbol for it but such is the HTML life). This oxygen radical causes a lot of damage and naked organisms like Hydra can't resist it. Essentiallly they are burnt away like your hair colour exposed to hydrogen peroxide.

tt4n

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## RonWill

Folks, the discussion is moved to a more appropriate sub-forum.




> ...only things I have found to resist bleach are trumpet snails (they close their trap door)


 Wright, it is futile to resist from the outside when one's being cooked from within. Microwaving at 10mins on High setting zaps 'em everytime.




> This oxygen radical causes a lot of damage and naked organisms like Hydra can't resist it. Essentiallly they are burnt away like your hair colour exposed to hydrogen peroxide


 Tyrone, does 'naked' apply to creatures with shells or scales, eg. fish, shrimp, snails and daphnia? Will tubifex, paramecium and other micro-organisms get 'burnt'? How will ozone treatment affect plants like java moss?

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## whuntley

Naked is any critter than has tender exposed surfaces that are involved in their metabolism.

Oxygen is just another "oxidizer" like chlorine (bleach). It mostly functions to "digest" tender proteins. Exposed gills, soft bodies, etc., suffer particularly from oxidizers, so most infusoria and many fish will have problems with it.

Plants are usually a bit more tolerant as their exposed surfaces are tougher than gill tissue. For bleach, I usually try to use a 19:1 dilution of Chlorox o/e. That is a 5.5% solution of sodium hypochlorite, reduced to 20:1 [I need to edit my post above, as I see I said that when I meant sodium thiosulfate!]

Delicate plants can be dunked for no more than 30 seconds, but tougher ones (like the plastic plant that grows) can be soaked for 2-3 minutes with little visible harm.

Wright

PS. Boiling is as good as the microwave for trumpet snails, and somewhat less likely to cause an exploding pebble.

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## RonWill

> Oxygen is just another "oxidizer" like chlorine (bleach). It mostly functions to "digest" tender proteins. Exposed gills, soft bodies, etc., suffer particularly from oxidizers, so most infusoria...


 Oh blimey! Either I didn't rig the Ozone generator correct or it's effective with certain critters only. Infusoria (including paramecium), tubifex, daphnia are gone. Snail and worse, hydra, is still active and searching for food  :Shocked:  




> Delicate plants can be dunked for no more than 30 seconds, but tougher ones (like the plastic plant that grows)...


 I've discussed this with the farm and they opined that the newly changed was too warm at the beginning of the tank water top-up. Farm chaps are suspecting 'thermal shock' sustain by the plant, leading to their beyond-recovery tissue degeneration.




> PS. Boiling is as good as the microwave for trumpet snails, and somewhat less likely to cause an exploding pebble.


 I prefer the MTS going off like pop corn than to risk them tucked-away in safety.

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