# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  DIY a way to prevent water droplet sprays from bursting bubbles

## Navanod

Hi all,

Was having a recent discussion with some of the bros on how to mitigate the spray of water droplets from bursting air bubbles from an airstone/airsponge.
Note that I'm using the airpump to circulate water from a high flow area at the bottom of my tank, to the mid and surface of the tank. The priority here is to eliminate dead spots with the help of the airpump.

So far, I've gathered some ideas:

1. Place a piece of plastic just above the water surface above where the bubbles are expected to burst.
Pros - Very simple to do & cost almost nothing. Able to use an airstone, resulting in alot of circulation.
Cons - Some bubbles still managed to escape. The piece of plastic have to be rather large.

2. Use an airlift sponge filter. 


Pros - Very easy to do. Additional biofiltration from the sponge.
Cons - Water circulation may be limited. Bubbles coming out from the elbow on top still cause spray.

3. Use an external satellite breeding box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqQ2SVtLF70&

Pros - Plug and play. All the sprays contained within the box. Extra mini-tank! Water falling from box serves to break the water surface and prevent surface film.
Cons - Takes up space on the precious glass edges and gets in the way. Moves very little water and minimal circulation to the water in the tank.

I found a fourth idea. Patented at that  :Grin: !

4. Make one of these:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7094340.pdf

A video of it in action can be found here but warning, there's "artistic nudity" and also a webpage advertised. The website's dead though so I guess that's ok?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kpzPKPewDs

Pros - Can be used with any form of bubble methods/stone/sponge, hence good circulation. Able to direct the exit water flow as a jet, more circulation! Takes up minimal space. Totally no bubbles escape.
Cons - Have to DIY. Complicated.

SOOooo....
I'm going to try and come up with a DIY that is much easier to make.
Something like this?  :Idea: 



Any thoughts? Ugly, yes...

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## stormhawk

That patented design looks so similar to a CO2 reactor with internal alternating blades placed at a certain degree of tilting. Something like this:

http://www.swelluk.com/img/shop/orig...diffuser-1.jpg

Might be easy to modify an existing internal CO2 reactor like those typical green ones with a piece of sponge.

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## felix_fx2

Adding picture of what i think don is doing to use.
BTW: why not just add a small foam pad like those used in GEX hang-on filter intake?

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## Navanod

Ah? I think the principles behind the patented design is very different.
In fact, the functional and innovative parts is only at the top
Sorry for the horrible drawing...playing too much "Draw Something" lately. hehe



So actually, one only needs to recreate this "cap" area, and ensures that all bubbles end up there. The rest of the "body" of the contraption can be modified to suit the source of the bubble, be it a sponge, airstone, UGF or just a raw air hose.

The CO2 reactor may suffer from the same limitations as the satellite breeding box, very limited water circulation as it only sucks up water from a small entry point instead of producing swirling currents in open waters.

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## Navanod

Felix, small foam pad where?

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## xconnect.

gex roca i think put at the bottom

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## tetrakid

@navanod
Maybe the water temperature is too high, that's why the plastic tube is bent. (Just pulling your legs).

The water circulation should be good because the water jet pushes water towards the other end of the tank. To enhance the effect a length of tube can be added to the water jet outlet. Alternatively, the bottom portion can be made to suck water in from the far end by adding an elbow joint and a long tube.

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## Navanod

> Adding picture of what i think don is doing to use.
> BTW: why not just add a small foam pad like those used in GEX hang-on filter intake?


More or less yes. The middle "funnel" is only needed if the distance of the bubble source is too far from the surface "bubble trap". In this case, instead of using an enclosed tube, which would prevent the moving bubbles from creating turbulence, I thought perhaps an open funnel may work just as well.
The funnel would "catch" all the small bubbles and concentrates them into a narrow area, effectively funneling them towards the surface bubble trap.
The bubbles would also merge into larger bubbles, which I'm hoping would move with greater force, and be less likely to randomly deviate from a direct ascent towards the bubble trap at the surface.

As for the bubble trap, I only copied the baffles (which will just be alternately arranged semi-circle pieces of foam stuff into the bottle mouth) and where the water line should be. Since I have no requirement for a directional jet of water, I'm happy to just let the water escape from the circumference of the trap.

This is shrimp and fish safe too, since nothing would be able to get trapped. The worst that could happen is a joy ride up before being ejected.

Am I making sense?

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## felix_fx2

> More or less yes. The middle "funnel" is only needed if the distance of the bubble source is too far from the surface "bubble trap". In this case, instead of using an enclosed tube, which would prevent the moving bubbles from creating turbulence, I thought perhaps an open funnel may work just as well.
> The funnel would "catch" all the small bubbles and concentrates them into a narrow area, effectively funneling them towards the surface bubble trap.
> The bubbles would also merge into larger bubbles, which I'm hoping would move with greater force, and be less likely to randomly deviate from a direct ascent towards the bubble trap at the surface.
> 
> As for the bubble trap, I only copied the baffles (which will just be alternately arranged semi-circle pieces of foam stuff into the bottle mouth) and where the water line should be. Since I have no requirement for a directional jet of water, I'm happy to just let the water escape from the circumference of the trap.
> 
> This is shrimp and fish safe too, since nothing would be able to get trapped. The worst that could happen is a joy ride up before being ejected.
> 
> Am I making sense?


I am implying to the GEX strainer sponge, Met with same issue before.
I tried a few methods besides that, the worse is putting a small rainbar and lifting the exit pipe to water surface :P , eventually before i had a good method my 2213 was commissioned.

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## Navanod

How does sponge works Felix?

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## felix_fx2

i cover the outlet, the bubbles lesser. quite annoyed that time as my lights were very close to where the bubbles were popping right below it.
the sponge only able to lessen but i have to bring the sponge filter nearer to the surface.....

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## zonkkie

I thought the idea is for the bubbles to break at the water surface which causes surface agitation and hence, oxygen exchange? Anyway, I do have the same problem but will prefer not to have anything "big" in the tank to counter think.

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## Navanod

> i cover the outlet, the bubbles lesser. quite annoyed that time as my lights were very close to where the bubbles were popping right below it.
> the sponge only able to lessen but i have to bring the sponge filter nearer to the surface.....


Haha, I thought you have some secret ideas!




> I thought the idea is for the bubbles to break at the water surface which causes surface agitation and hence, oxygen exchange? Anyway, I do have the same problem but will prefer not to have anything "big" in the tank to counter think.


You are right in most cases. However, I only need to circulate water. The 4 2ft-wide "waterfalls" in my rack provide more than enough surface agitation.  :Razz:

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## eviltrain

how about just adding those black sponge we use for mech filtration right at the top of the devices?

my 1/10 cent.  :Very Happy:

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## Navanod

Just a black sponge alone? That had the same effect as just putting a piece of plastic, I tried. The bubbles eventually starts moving out and popping outside the sponge cover

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## eviltrain

yah. in that case, just simply move up the whole device so that the sponge will be above the water level. bubble popping inside the sponge.

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## felix_fx2

> Just a black sponge alone? That had the same effect as just putting a piece of plastic, I tried. The bubbles eventually starts moving out and popping outside the sponge cover


That was exactly what happen to the gex sponge.
You know those green co2 mixer? Try using those. Should have a workable solution from that.

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## tetrakid

Yes, the culprit is surface tension. 

If the surface tension is tough, the bubbles, especially the smaller ones, will not pop easily, and they will fill all over the whole tank surface, making it like a pocked thick skin.




> Just a black sponge alone? That had the same effect as just putting a piece of plastic, I tried. The bubbles eventually starts moving out and popping outside the sponge cover

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## Navanod

> yah. in that case, just simply move up the whole device so that the sponge will be above the water level. bubble popping inside the sponge.


Needs a drawing to understand bro.  :Smile:

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## Navanod

> Yes, the culprit is surface tension. 
> 
> If the surface tension is tough, the bubbles, especially the smaller ones, will not pop easily, and they will fill all over the whole tank surface, making it like a pocked thick skin.


Precisely! The more surface film, the higher the surface tension.
Also, although smaller bubbles have better surface area to water contact, they are also more likely to float away to another part of the tank before popping. That's why I wanted to have a 1st stage "funnel". Of course, I can simply just not use an airstone and just have large bubbles coming out of a raw airhose. But I feel that the initial stream of fine bubbles would circulate more water at the base of the tank?

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## stormhawk

Don, here's a diagram of the CO2 reactor modified for your purposes:



This is basically based on an internal CO2 reactor with baffles already built in. Stuff black coarse sponge in the inlet and outlet to prevent any shrimps from coming in. You can remove the sponges for maintenance with a pair of tweezers if they clog up. Works to prevent debris from settling in the reactor too. The exit point to air hose is connected to a bleeder valve, so the trapped air can escape with minimal noise. You can use a venturi tube for this, or just place this tip above the water line with a single airline. 

For the air stone tube, you have to drill or make a hole at the top cap to accomodate a rigid tube which connects to the airstone. Or you can just switch places with the bleeder point and extend the airline that connects to the airstones that typically come with some of these CO2 reactors.

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## Navanod

Thanks for the drawing and explanations. Now I can see how it's supposed to work.

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## Navanod

Morning folks,

After a hard night of work, I have some pictures and videos!

First, someone also told me to try this (sorry, forgot to include this in my initial post):



I got my hands on a set last evening and decided to add my own little mod, by replacing 2 of the sucker disks with 2 airhoses.


Whoossh!


The extra airhoses allow water to escape without bringing any bubbles with them.

If you look at this video, you can see that the air can be cranked up pretty high without any bubbles escaping. If the bubbles starts getting out, all that is required is to lift the box further above the waterline. Notice also the movement of the bubble stream as it snakes left and right, this is due to water being ejected downwards and out through the bottom again. The fissiden below the box can be observed to be "waving" as the water exits the bottom of the box.



Pros: Can produce and handle alot of bubbles! Loads of oxygenation! Looks aesthetically very nice. Shrimp safe. Possible to mod into a fluidized reactor? Almost no bubbling noise heard.
Cons: Costs. Water only exits through the bottom (without modding), not sure how much it'll circulate the mid and surface water.

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## tetrakid

Is this superb gadget available here? What's the price range? I must get it.  :Smile:

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## Navanod

In another partition, I was testing satellite breeding boxes as HOFs.
.

Noticed that I'm hanging them from my center partition glass, so both boxes are submerged in the water. At least the water temperatures will be stable if I wished to house anything inside them.


Results were as expected but the flow is somewhat better than I had initially thought.
But at the same time, I also found that it is noisier as the uplift pipe gargles. This can be reduced by adjusting the rate of air bubbling without affecting the water flow too much, but it's still audible.

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## Navanod

Lastly, my own design!





Then stuff the other sponge from the other side and make sure the gap is on the alternate side




Sadly, some bubbles are still able to escape from the back and I cannot crank up the bubble on the eheim diffuser any higher than this video or alot more bubbles will escape from the sides too. 
Strangely, it wasn't as ugly or visible as I though it would be. Hehe.



Pro: Dirt cheap to make. Bubbles are in open water, maximum water movement. Can use any airsource. Shrimp safe.
Cons: Some tiny bubbles can escape. Bubbles flowrate cannot be too high. Not pretty to look at.

If I add the additional "funnel" from my design, things will certainly improve I'm sure, but boy would that be ever ugly! Will add that and update again.

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## Navanod

> Is this superb gadget available here? What's the price range? I must get it.


Yes it is. I got mine from GC.

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## tetrakid

Thank you. Recently went to the GC block but missed the shop as I was expecting to see a typical lfs appearance outside . Asked someone nearby, he said no aquariums now but before yes. Then went to the 2 shops at Block 328.



> Yes it is. I got mine from GC.

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## pufferlover

Bro Navanod thats damn nice .... going to try one of this for my planted tanks

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## stormhawk

Don, the TOTTO product looks cool but I think you'll eventually have to plug the bottom. I can't imagine what will happen if a shrimp went in and took a ride in the "washing machine".  :Laughing: 

Your DIY bottle method looks great and it works. As for the Satellite boxes, long term they might be best for you since you can isolate the females. Only thing is, cut a small piece of sponge to go over the exit so nothing can escape.

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## felix_fx2

I saw it in GC just now too.
Looks really like a shrimp play ground  :Smile: .

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## Navanod

I assure you the TOTTO is quite harmless to shrimps. Many had taken a joyride already! Haha, just one round and they get ejected, none trapped. Sealing the bottom will be done if I want to turn it into a Purigen reactor.  :Smile: 
The satellite boxes are turning into seed shrimp traps! No shrimplets though. Strange.

I just got the funnel done for the DIY. A real pain to align and position, and still not foolproof.
Got a Ver. 3 coming soon. Hahaha.

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## Blue Whale

^^Y I bought a mini.
Here is where you goto see.
http://www.gcshop-sg.com

Search for Bubble Stopper, you will see two models, The larger sized one and the mini. I got a mini. Now I read with interest that some of you are worry about the top. This *Totto Bubble Stopper* have two square outlets on top sides. Bottom is practically empty so water flows in. The two outlets are placed in such a way it's 2-3cm above water level. I found another interesting thing after deploying, once water level drops, it humms and you can be alerted to add water. So pretty good in my opinion.

Usually I will on the air pump for a while after water change. Other than that, the pump is off most of the time.

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## Navanod

I didn't get the sound on the normal version. Perhaps its unique to the mini only?
Why not leave it on? Even someone who can't stand noisy setups can tolerate it. The only thing I can hear is the soft humming of the Eheim airpump (currently the loudest equipment, aside from the chiller when it's kicked in) and the occasional gargle from the 2 satellite breeding boxes.

I'm really tempted to use the TOTTO as K1 or purigen reactor! Hahaha!

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## Blue Whale

It is still a planted tank, so I would wanna maintain the Co2 reactor to generate the oxygen. Eheim is usually quite silent unless it is really dirty. The box comes with a black square like container, I would put the eheim in it so in case water leak due to improper securing of the cover, water would not leak everywhere. The key here is proper handling.

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## Navanod

Eheim airpump comes with black container? Are we talking about the same pump?
I'll go back and take some pictures later.

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## Blue Whale

It's black plastic thingy. I already de-com my ehiem and threw away because it broke off several years back hence, I do not have the picture to show you. Comes with the original box. But since I have not touch on Ehiem in recent years, they might have change the packaging. If you can find a really Bigggg...plastic container (like those for food container), you can still house it inside the plastic without the cover. Putting a pail is ugly sight. Potting plates are too shallow to contain much water. You should know what I mean...

Anyway, inorder to "hear" the sound, you'd have to do a water change to simulate water level drop. Thereafter, you should be able to hear the humming sound from the *Bubble Stopper*. Effectively, the container itself acts like a flute, with holes on top, so it will hum when hollow in the center. Of course, you need some water above the diffuser to generate bubbles inorder to hear it, meaning after it drops below the diffuser level, it will stop humming.

For those DIY people, you could take the example of this Bubble Stopper to design a really really simple one. It is easy to make like fellow fishy guys have discussed with me face to face (e.g. Felix) but you can use money to buy away the hardwork and time required to assemble one. The current mini I bought it. Can't say for the future...heh heh. You can do this even with Styrofoam in my opinion. Just need something heavy to weight it down and something to "hang" it. Stainless Steel binding wire should be able to do it.

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## Navanod

Behold! Navie bubble stopper Version 1.1!




Still getting bubbles escaping from the back and its a real pain to align and adjust 3 different things on sucker pads! Still can't crank the bubbles at full blast.


So I made this:


Voila! Version 1.2!



Now, not only can I go full blast on the bubbles, none can escape! Wahaha! And since the front half of the bottle is cut away, the water currents gets thrown out into the tank in a fan shape and many micro-bubbles everywhere (those too small to cause sprays).

Now to make a few more for the large partitions and save up for TOTTO for the smaller partitions  :Razz:

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## tetrakid

I heard somewhere it is said that tiny micro air bubbles suspended in water may not be good for some fish's gills because they may be lodged in the gills and clog them up and that will interfere with their natural breathing apparatus.

I tend to believe that wholly, since I reasoned that, since fish breathe only oxygen which is dissolved in water but not suspended in it. Except Bettas and air breathers of course. Any other helpful views?

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## stormhawk

Maybe easier to rig this with some plastic funnels.

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## Navanod

Fishes gulp air from the surface and also swim through bubble streams. OHF typically creates alot of fine bubbles when the water gets dumped back into the tank from height.
We also inject CO2 as a fine bubble mist in planted tanks. Waterfalls? Glass catfish hangs out at the base of waterfalls.

If it was detrimental to fishes, I'm sure some kind of SOP or guide would've mentioned this by now? Hence, I'm very skeptical about this claim. I'll observe my fishes and shrimps and see if they do react to the micro-bubbles.

Maybe we should have a Myth Buster team? Haha

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## stormhawk

I've seen fine bubbles being stuck on the mucous of the fish before but so far, no issues. Some of my Corys have sand particles on their scutes after rooting for food and they don't mind it either.

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## cheetf

> I heard somewhere it is said that tiny micro air bubbles suspended in water may not be good for some fish's gills because they may be lodged in the gills and clog them up and that will interfere with their natural breathing apparatus.
> 
> I tend to believe that wholly, since I reasoned that, since fish breathe only oxygen which is dissolved in water but not suspended in it. Except Bettas and air breathers of course. Any other helpful views?


Bro, heard somewhere? Some fish? Would be nice if you could tell us exactly where and what fish.

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## tetrakid

Please refer to this _article_:- http://oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm




> Bro, heard somewhere? Some fish? Would be nice if you could tell us exactly where and what fish.

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## tetrakid

Maybe we can set up and provide a reflexology service for fish, lol.  :Surprised: 



> I've seen fine bubbles being stuck on the mucous of the fish before but so far, no issues. Some of my Corys have sand particles on their scutes after rooting for food and they don't mind it either.

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## Navanod

> Please refer to this _article_:- http://oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm


I noticed that this article refers to water so full of bubbles that it looks milky.
That's as good as having a >50% air volume in the water.

Imagine being stuck in a room where >50% of the air is displaced by a very thick water mist. We'll also start drowning.

At the same time, they are referring to pure O2 bubbles, pumped into the bags during transport of fishes.

I think they're talking about something similar to this


Actually, to have such fine bubbles direct from an air-bar/stone, the water will have to be very dense, i.e salt water. Such bubbles will also remain suspended much longer than in fresh water, likely leading to the milky looking water.
In freshwater, most of the micro bubbles will head to the surface, and will float around abit before popping. It's not possible to generate this amount of micro bubbles from a single air-stone in fresh water.

As for oxygen toxicity, it's almost impossible in a normal aquarium.
Firstly, the bubbles from airpumps are not pure oxygen.
Secondly, in high tech planted tanks, the plants commonly starts pearling when the amount of dissolved oxygen that the water can hold is maxed out. Since no more oxygen can dissolved, they form pure O2 bubbles on the leaves and slowly floats up.
The amount of dissolve oxygen the water can hold is determined by temperature. The cooler the water, the more it can hold. At the moment, I have not heard of anyone who lost livestocks in a planted tank due to oxygen saturation at the temperature that we maintain our fishes in.

In summary, the article is referring to the practice where excessive pure oxygen bubbles are injected into sealed bags of saltwater during transport of marine fishes to the extent that the bag is saturated with bubbles and turns milky. This would not happen in a normal freshwater (or even saltwater) aquarium.

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## tetrakid

I suppose you are right. I used to be an oxygen fan. I loved to splash water into my tank from my high overhead filter in order to maximise oxygenation of the water. But since the day I discovered the excellence of external hang-on filters, I no more believe in 'splashing', or bubbling with air, as I found appropriately-sized hang-on filters excellent for this purpose I have in mind.

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## Navanod

You still brought up a good point. Moderation is key (not the moderator kind!). I'm sure there'll some crazy chap out there who would saturate the tank with 28 air-stones and bubble the living daylights out of his shrimps from a Hi-Blow.  :Roll Eyes: 

I'm the reverse of you tetra bro. I can't stand the noise and splashes from OHF and bubbling with air-stone and sponge. That's the entire reason why this thread was started. Apparently, the splash guards also reduced the noise by a very large margin.
Airpumps have their advantages. They do not dump additional heat load into the tank and 1 pump can service many partitions.

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## tetrakid

I swear by hang-on filters for aeration. I only use air pumps to create water movement if needed, but never for aeration.

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## Blue Whale

oei, come back a bit. Consider modifying a square food container. two holes top, at a side, not direct top. bottom hollow. Makes a better housing than a bottle. Air stone need good one. air pump - any pump you have.

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## Navanod

Yup, OT very far!

Blue whale bro, define "good" airstone?  :Huh?: 
I did consider a square food container. But the part above water will be fairly large to catch all the bubbles wouldn't it? Unless you speak of emulating the TOTTO box?

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## Blue Whale

Good Airstone are not those cheapo type where the bubble are big big one, nor the long tube type but like the totto one which can emit fine bubbles, don't have to be mist type.

Coming back to the design of totto, what they have done is correct. If you open on top, then wouldn't it be the same as you do not have a container? So it make sense to make the opening at the front side facing the water. If you open the side facing the glass/plastic, then it again defeat the purpose as it will make a lot of watermark there. How about side of the container? Looking at how you attach to side of the tank, it seems only logical that the front side is the best area to release the air and water droplets back to the tank without creating a whirlpool (Logic is the opening to be above water level).

Now normal rectangle food container comes in different height, so choose the one that is the most flat, about 2cm or use one section of your finger (Phalanges, 3 section or 3 phalanges on one finger), that would be a good guide. Don't you think?

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## felix_fx2

AYE! totto airstone looks so much like the big brother of the UP brand diffuser...
btw, from bubbles to air stone... what happen to the DIY instead of paying for the work? (lol after paying for the sleek toy all forget?)

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## Blue Whale

> AYE! totto airstone looks so much like the big brother of the UP brand diffuser...
> btw, from bubbles to air stone... what happen to the DIY instead of paying for the work? (lol after paying for the sleek toy all forget?)


Actually totto Bubble Stopper is a DIY Kit. Except that they prepare everything for you so you do not have to hunt for the materials seperately. ^^Y Since I got one mini, I can tell you if you want beauty, simply go down to GC or goto GC online shop to order one. Why did I say it's a DIY kit? Because you still need to assemble the parts given to you. Especially the middle tube to the rubber tube takes a bit of skill there (Don't cut yourself okay?).

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## Blue Whale

Ding Ding, after a good bathe, got ideas again. Okay, remember those plastic cover for fish tank? 1 piece, 1 $2 hand saw (New blade please), 1 Silicone gun, 1 Electric Drill. Okay holes don't have to be square, it can be rounded. Now the 4 piece are the easier to cut but dimension must be precise. The top piece should be the most difficult one because you need to drill through to put the air tube and the air stone. To hang the container, you can have holes which you use thick binding wires to bend a hook to hook it to the side of the tank walls...stainless steel binding wire of course. ^o^ Ho Ho...so for those hand itchy people, now you have something to really work on liao...ha ha...^^" I would still go and buy one, lazy to make one.

Okie, in my little mind, the difficult part is the top piece. It can break during drilling hence use a small drill bit instead of large sized ones. So do not throw away the extra ones yet, as you might need to make a 2nd piece.

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## felix_fx2

Is that not what i mention to you? it's a all done item for those who lazy DIY and rather pay to get the effect and maybe some anesthetic value at the same time. 
Don't agree with you saying DIY kit, when alot of stuff come not assembled but already manufactured to fit. You tired from work? :P

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## Blue Whale

Very tired bro..ha ha...

PC parts are also pre-fabricated but people still consider it DIY at times. I guess it is just perspective. : )

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## Navanod

How to know if an airstone will be good and produce finer bubbles bro?
Unless the shop nice enough to let me try there, its quite difficult. So far, I got mostly crappy ones that either break apart or just had big bubbles coming out of a few spot on the stone.
Yes, I agree that the TOTTO's airstone is goooooood

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## Blue Whale

blue, grey, green break. white like totto don't break so easily, another is woody type.

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## Navanod

Hahaha! White is difficult to procure though.
And wood is just a pain to work with as it floats and is frankly quite ugly after sometime

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## nlh4ever

Great idea over there! shall try it when i'm out of camp~

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## Blue Whale

> Hahaha! White is difficult to procure though.
> And wood is just a pain to work with as it floats and is frankly quite ugly after sometime


You see lor...ha ha...I told you easier to buy ready set. Because today even if you go PolyArt, Y618, AquaStar or 328, high chance you will procure the green, blue, grey type. White one depends whether stock available at these shops. And for places like 328, provided you can find it ^^" ha...should know what I mean. I think Serangoon and Clementi people have a higher chance of finding it.

Those interested to make one, please post up some pictures so as to encourage everyone. : )

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## Navanod

But but but~why are the whites better?! What mystical material are they made of?

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## Blue Whale

Wah....getting technical liao. I believe it's call White Corundum Air stone. You can search for Corundum in Wikipedia.
At least better than ceramic ones. : ) I don't study chemistry, I study accounts but works in I.T. XD ha ha...

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## Navanod

Don't look at me, I am no chemist either, although this is probably the domain knowledge of material engineering. Aluminum oxide based airstone...intriguing. I would never have found this on my own.

Google tells me that the thing is not always white and can be any color, although grey and white seemed to be most commonly used for airstones. Sadly, online sources are all from China. Mainly the dubious webstores opened by Mr Ali.
Perhaps I can look out for grey ones?

I also remembered why I disliked the wooden ones. When I first started out, I actually asked C328 why my airstones cannot produce fine mist-like bubbles and the auntie actually laughed at me (it's not an easy feat to get an expression from her!). She said it's only possible in salt water, but if I want, the wooden air diffusers are my best bet.

I cannot remember if I got finer bubbles, probably not, as my airpump was a miserable tiny FOC one which most likely couldn't even provide the required pressure.

But I do remember the pain of trying to keep the thing from floating free of the sucker pad, and eventually, becoming an algae planter before the plastic hose connector broke off from the wooden block...
Yikes, now I remember why I hated airpumps so much!

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## Blue Whale

Okie, I will try to search my memory. Usually the white ones comes in a plastic stick to a hard paper for hanging. (High Class packaging right?)

Ceramic Cheapo will either be one whole bunch in a basket or one in a zippy plastic. (-0-) Cheapo always package cheapo way....

A super powered air pump like my NS 8000 pump will not produce fine mist. Instead, it will still produce biggg...bubbles, even though I put it at Low switch. (L-M-H). Of course, there is always the CO2 diffuser to try out if you want to, even though not for the correct purpose ^^ Hee Hee...

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## Navanod

That thought did cross my tormented mind but I am worried that the CO2 diffuser will be so restrictive that nothing would come out. And it's really costly to be used as airstones!
Wait, I thought the CO2 diffusers are made of ceramic? But they are white...

Hmmmm...I may have a few spares CO2 diffusers lying around

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## Blue Whale

So if you can get fine mist you can forget about bubble stopper? ha ha..okies, I retire liao for the night. If got more replies, please wait for tomorrow. Nitez all.

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## Navanod

No, but with fine bubbles, the bubble stopper would not need to be so big?
Of course, at the same time I wonder if the fine bubbles would create as much water movements as larger bubbles

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## tetrakid

Fine bubbles are beautiful, but nowadays, I avoid exposing my fish to fine bubbles. 

I am convinced that fine bubbles can be lodged in fish's gills making them malfunction. I am convinced because I notice tiny air bubbles on some plants are stuck stubbornly on the plants. Also, I have experienced stubborn tiny bubbles sticking to the side of glass surfaces, and simply remain there until I scrape them away. There are bubbles even smaller than those we can see.

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## Navanod

Plants and glass don't move, so of course the bubbles will stick to them.
I was reading about shrimps and how they prevent "fouling" of their gills. They actually have many "brushes" and "scrapers" on their tiny legs to clean their gills and bodies.
Fishes should also have developed a way to remove dirt and other things from their gills. Parasites, bacteria, worms and all sorts of nasty things are trying to cling to gills and grow there. Bubbles would be the last thing fishes are worried about.

I know the shrimps certainly would not be bothered by bubbles
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...145#post662145

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## tetrakid

I do agree with the reasoning. But I have come to differentiate between suspended air bubbles on the one hand, and dissolved gases (oxygen) on the other.

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## Navanod

Blue whale, you're not the first to think of it, hehehe




Tetrakid, You do have a point that sometimes, too much of a good thing may be bad too.

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## Blue Whale

ha..of course not, that one in the video cost you $8, still cheap cheap.

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## Navanod

Hmmm, considering that the Eheim Ball Diffuser cost $10 to buy separately from the airpump...yes, it is cheap cheap.

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## Navanod

Ok, I tested with 2 CO2 diffusers. They need alot of pressure to work.
For the larger one (with the thicker ceramic disk and a spiral glass thingie inside) I can only get a single stream of bubble, at full power on an Eheim 3704 with all other airlines shut off.
For the smaller cheapo one, it works pretty much like the video above, but also requires almost all the power from the air pump. Put anything else onto the airpump, and all the air would prefer to go there instead and the diffuser would not bubble at all.

Only viable for people with air compressors that can power 28 lines at the same time.

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## stormhawk

Found this site while trawling the web:

http://www.wonbrothers.com/product/a...e/airstone.htm

I think the efficiency and life of the air stone is dependent on the quality of the materials used. The one from the Totto product is probably made from very fine silica sand, or a type of high quality ceramic.

http://www.aquaristikshop.com/cdshop...usstroemer.htm

This site from Germany shows some air stones made with different materials. By the way Don, 2.79 Euro for the EHEIM diffuser.  :Grin:

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## Navanod

Wow thanks for the links!

According to Blue Whale, the best are made from Corundum, aluminum oxide. That wonbrothers link has it
Aluminum Oxide Low Pressure Ceramic Air Stone (DY102)

I don't really know what the TOTTO ones are made of, but after some comparisons, its really much better than other stones.
It's able to "leech" pressure off the Eheim ball (tightened to max) and another "normal" blue airstone, meaning that it's not as restrictive and can work under lower pressure.
However, the large amount of bubbles produced are quite uniformly forced out of the entire stone and although not mist-fine, are not as big as the normal airstone (mainly because the air is spilt evenly among all the pores).

$2.79EURO for Eheim diffuser, but $28.90EURO to ship!  :l: 

http://www.aquaristikshop.com/cgi-bi...pl?t=e_versand

I'm now more interested in TOTTO's airstone than Eheim's diffuser, heh heh

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## stormhawk

The postage is for up to 3 kg, so if you're going to purchase this, make it worthwhile and find other stuff to add up on the weight.

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## felix_fx2

shopping for toys?
Do i get a chance to chip in (if any).  :Roll Eyes:

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## stormhawk

I don't see much else on that German site to purchase. The diffuser is worthwhile though.

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## paradox

I just read this thread, sorry to bring up a 1 month old thread. But doesn't the CO2 diffuser as shown produce small-mist like bubbles as well which will reduce droplet sprays from bursting bubbles? It is also aesthetically pleasing. Why are CO2 diffusers not used as air stones then? Is there any reason to this? Isit because there is too little surface agitation thus not allowing O2 into the wateR? Sorry if it was mentioned and I missed it out.

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## stormhawk

CO2 diffusers made from ceramic or other materials, require a high working pressure to function properly. It is not wise to link them up to an air pump because the pump will be working much harder just to force air through the diffuser material.

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## ralliart12

> CO2 diffusers made from ceramic or other materials, require a high working pressure to function properly. It is not wise to link them up to an air pump because the pump will be working much harder just to force air through the diffuser material.


I was just about to ask this question! Because I was thinking of "diffusing" oxygen via such CO2 diffusers instead of the typical air-stone. Reason is because these diffusers can make the air supply input much finer, & in general they (the equipment) look nicer. So, glad you cleared up this potential pitfall for me even before I asked. Haha! Now to look for nicer-looking air-stone.

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## Navanod

Its not impossible per say, just that you'll need an air pump with a high working pressure and you would not be able to support as many airstones as diffusers on it.

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## paradox

Thanks for the input! Was just wondering. I don't mind air pump working harder to get a more aesthetically pleasing air! Haha. Shall check purchase one! 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

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