# General > Member's Lounge > Photography >  Difference between 200mm macro and 200mm tele lens

## Shadow

I bough this "Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG macro", when I try the macro function via switch, I didn't see the different between 200mm macro and 200mm tele. Maybe because it is not true macro lense or maybe because I do not know where to look for or maybe both  :Embarassed: . 

So what is the different between 200mm macro and 200mm tele lens?

Why there is no IS (Image Stabilizer) for macro lense? My lense do not have IS to begin with and I'm having trouble to keep my hand still  :Knockout:

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## budak

I have this lens too. It's not a true macro and the smallest things you can probably shoot effectively are large dragonflies and butterflies (given the minimum focal length), but you will need to be very steady if handheld. The 'macro' mode basically allows better focusing at closer distances. The aperture at 200-300 mm isn't great either. And it's hardly a birding lens. But i have gotten some pretty ok results with other wildlife: reptiles, mammals...

I think macro lenses don't come with IS because the manufacture assumes most people will use a tripod. I can handhold down to 1/30, below which I need a monopod at least. If you do want to shoot macro, maybe can consider some close-up filters, or the Canon 50 mm macro f2.5, the Canon EFS 60 mm macro f2.8 or the Canon 100 mm macro f2.8. Or the Tamron/Tokina/Sigma macro offerings...

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## hwchoy

when you switch to macro mode, the lens allows you to focus at a shorter distance (vs in non-macro mode) which then result in larger subject image size aka magnification.

note that your lens is not true macro, i.e. it does not produce up to live size image of the subject on your sensor plane.

there ARE macro lenses with IS function, its just that YOUR lens does not have.

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## Shadow

I check the photozone, all the macro lense list down without IS. Of course Photozone does not review all the available lense in the market. Maybe newer lense with IS.

I know my lense without IS, it a budget lense to begin with. It should be sufficient for newbie who what to try out tele lense.

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## hwchoy

Nikkor 105mm ƒ/2.8 Micro VR.

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## Shadow

:Opps:  I didn't look at Nikon, my camera is Canon

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## hwchoy



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## Shadow

e... that nice icon, where do you get that? not in the list  :Laughing: 

alamak you link to your web site

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## zQ.

100mm 2.8 macro is a good one,IMO.

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## Simon

guys, mind the SMS lingo

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## luenny

In my opinion when it comes to truely shooting macro, I think the IS (or VR as called by Nikon) is not that useful. Because at that mode, even very minute shake will cause your picture to be blur. VR/IS can only correct a bit of the shake, not too much. Still a good tripod and flashes are needed.

Come to think of it, AF is pretty much not used too because of the frequent hunting. That's why the Nikon 105mm VR Macro comes with a M/A overwrite that you can switch from AF to MF instantly by turning the focusing ring. 

But all that said, I do agree that 105mm VR macro is a very good lens.

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## trident

Robert,
I think you should invest in a tripod. I just collected mine, a hand me down from my brother. It's a manfrotto 055NAT2 with Cambro CBH3 ball head.
By the way how's the Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG macro lens? I was thinking of getting this, but change my mind to a Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS.

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## hwchoy

all my macro are done with flash, so normally done with hand held. only on tripod in order to achieve critical focus.

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## Simon

I do my macro using a monopod or handheld. A good tripod I recommend is the Gitzo explorer (the one Justin is using)

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## wasabi8888

> In my opinion when it comes to truely shooting macro, I think the IS (or VR as called by Nikon) is not that useful. Because at that mode, even very minute shake will cause your picture to be blur. VR/IS can only correct a bit of the shake, not too much. Still a good tripod and flashes are needed.
> 
> Come to think of it, AF is pretty much not used too because of the frequent hunting. That's why the Nikon 105mm VR Macro comes with a M/A overwrite that you can switch from AF to MF instantly by turning the focusing ring. 
> 
> But all that said, I do agree that 105mm VR macro is a very good lens.


I have the 105 VR. I use the manual all the time for macro shots. Everytime I use M/A overwrite, and if my hand is not steady enough, the focus is out when i press the shutter half way. Let me try to repeat my question. on M/A, I press the shutter halfway and it will focus automtically. If I then turn the M/A ring to focus manually (my finger will be off the firing button), and I press the shutter again, the pic just goes off focus again. Do you have the problem?






> I do my macro using a monopod or handheld. A good tripod I recommend is the Gitzo explorer (the one Justin is using)


I am using a Gitzo Tripod as well. But I am thinking of buying a monopod. It's just a lot easier to set up, in my opinion

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## hwchoy

on Canon EF lenses, the USM drives allow full-time manual, that means you AF to obtain focus, and you can turn the focus ring (without pressing any other gizmo) to manually fine tune the focus, great with a split image viewfinder screen.

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## luenny

> I have the 105 VR. I use the manual all the time for macro shots. Everytime I use M/A overwrite, and if my hand is not steady enough, the focus is out when i press the shutter half way. Let me try to repeat my question. on M/A, I press the shutter halfway and it will focus automtically. If I then turn the M/A ring to focus manually (my finger will be off the firing button), and I press the shutter again, the pic just goes off focus again. Do you have the problem?


No I don't have the problem. To use the M/A mode, you must make sure that you're on S (single focus mode) and not C (continuous focus mode). I'm not sure which camera you're using.

Anyway, here's the part you got wrong, you press the shutter halfway to focus, then turn the focus ring to focus manually. But your finger needs to be on the firing button all the time in the half press mode. Once you let go and press again, it will autofocus again when you press the next time.

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## Shadow

> Robert,
> I think you should invest in a tripod. I just collected mine, a hand me down from my brother. It's a manfrotto 055NAT2 with Cambro CBH3 ball head.
> By the way how's the Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG macro lens? I was thinking of getting this, but change my mind to a Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS.


You ask the wrong person, this is my first time holding DSLR camera, first time having 70-300mm lense. I do not know what is considered as good because do not have other lens to capare with  :Opps: 

Anyway, I took photo of my espei with macro setting, I do not have flash and my hand shake badly. So decided to use ISO 1600, 1/80, F5.6 and at 300mm. It is a bit too dark though.

How much did you pay for Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS? probably double or even triple Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG macro. Can't compare you get what you pay for  :Opps:

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## trident

Robert,
hahaha first time for me too.  :Smile: 
I haven't bought the EF-S 55-250mm yet, this is also a budget lens. A new one cost about $410. 
Photo turn out OK, considering these small guys move around a lot. Good effort!

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## Shadow

Richard, you got Fuji prosumer camera, the weight probably close to DSLR. I can take photo with compact camera with only one hand, but not with DSLR  :Razz: 

I saw at club snap, canon lens price section, OP selling it for $360 and my Sigma is $330. I'm very surprise, usually IS lens is very expensive. I'm considering to get this and sell my Sigma  :Opps: . I can't hold the lens steady enough at 150mm - 300mm, in other word that lense is uselless to me  :Knockout: . I'm hopping IS would be great help  :Smile:

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## Simon

> You ask the wrong person, this is my first time holding DSLR camera, first time having 70-300mm lense. I do not know what is considered as good because do not have other lens to capare with 
> 
> Anyway, I took photo of my espei with macro setting, I do not have flash and my hand shake badly. So decided to use ISO 1600, 1/80, F5.6 and at 300mm. It is a bit too dark though.
> 
> How much did you pay for Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS? probably double or even triple Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO DG macro. Can't compare you get what you pay for


Robert

a general rule to prevent handshakes is to shoot with a shutterspeed of 1/the focal length of your lens, example shooting at 300mm your shutterspeed should be 1/300s, however, as time progresses you will realise the ability of handholding at a lower shutterspeed.

the 55-250mm is slightly more expensive compared to the sigma 70-300, saw the photos, not very impressed, optical quality is almost similar to that of the sigma 70-300, only good thing is, it comes with IS.

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## trident

Robert,
One of the reason I decided to get the EF-S 55-250mm is because of the IS, but no USM. So focusing might be slower. 
You must learn to shoot with one hand from Luenny, he is always using one hand!
I guess you have to use both hands or a tripod.

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## Shadow

Simon, at what ISO does the general rule apply?

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## hwchoy

as simon says, remember the 1/ƒ rule of thumb, and most importantly that IS/VR is not a replacement for shutterspeed. IS/VR will not allow you to capture a moving insect or freeze its feelers.

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## hwchoy

> Simon, at what ISO does the general rule apply?


it is not related to ISO. in order to achieve the shutter speed you need, one way is to increase the ISO, but the rule applies.

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## Simon

not rules of ISO settings, but the higher you go, the greater the noise and the loss of details. I'm not familiar with fish photography and have only skim the surface  :Smile: , but for my butterfly photography, I try to keep it at maximum ISO 800, when I use ISO 1600, it could only be a sign of desperation  :Grin: 

ps. I never have any keepers above ISO 400 (printable and sharp in prints of S8R)

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## hwchoy

Simon, time to get a Nikon D3  :Grin:

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## Shadow

with faster shutter speed, I will need more intense light right?  :Huh?:

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## hwchoy

so now you realise, the entre issue is about adequate amount of light.

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## luenny

> Robert,
> One of the reason I decided to get the EF-S 55-250mm is because of the IS, but no USM. So focusing might be slower. 
> You must learn to shoot with one hand from Luenny, he is always using one hand!
> I guess you have to use both hands or a tripod.


Richard,
I'm no longer using one hand. That's why I got the flash bracket. Then recently I started to use the tripod a lot and I use the other hand to hold the free flash. Using one hand is a real strain considering the whole camera, grip and lens weights about 2kg.

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## valice

That's where the ST-E2 and flash comes in..  :Grin:

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## hwchoy

it is very important to understand the issue and use of light. you can use a fast shutter with intense light, or slow shutter with lower intensity, diffused light, on top of which you have a play with the aperture size. the results are different. neither one nor the other is "right" or "wrong". it is your call as photographer to use these elements to create the photograph you wanted, e.g. a subject with dark background (fast shutter) or a "natural" looking scene with lit background.

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## valice

Agree with what Choy mentioned. So sometimes, even with flash, people use slow shutter speeds to capture the background. Else there is not much difference from using an on-board flash on a PNS camera in full AUTO mode.

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## budak

the Sigma 70-300 is actually a very light lens. Think the Canon 17-40 and 100 mm macro far heavier. You can try shooting at Shutter priority to let the camera set the aperture to fit your focal length/shutter speed.

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## Simon

> Simon, time to get a Nikon D3


can I have that for my birthday present?  :Jump for joy:  :Jump for joy:

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## hwchoy

Canon EF 100mm ƒ/2.8 Macro USM is about 600g, considered light once you are used to L lenses and ultra-fast primes.

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## hwchoy

> can I have that for my birthday present?


can, later I go find one on Facebook  :Grin:

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## valice

> the Sigma 70-300 is actually a very light lens. Think the Canon 17-40 and 100 mm macro far heavier. You can try shooting at Shutter priority to let the camera set the aperture to fit your focal length/shutter speed.


Outdoor shoots and other macro will be good. But for fish photography, my personal take is that I prefer to control the depth of field due to the focal length and distance between subject and sensor. Personally prefer to go M or Av.

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## hwchoy

yes I also use Aperture priority due to the need to control DOF. once you meter the scene you need to worry about how much light to provide, how to provide, and if you will sacrifice noise level by going higher ISO.

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## luenny

> That's where the ST-E2 and flash comes in..


I'm using Nikon D200, I don't need ST-E2, plus I can use my on-board flash as an additional light source if I want to.  :Grin: 




> the Sigma 70-300 is actually a very light lens. Think the Canon 17-40 and 100 mm macro far heavier. You can try shooting at Shutter priority to let the camera set the aperture to fit your focal length/shutter speed.


I don't know about those lenses but the Nikon 105mm VR Macro is heavy. Usually I don't shoot S mode unless it's some high speed action shots I want to get. If possible I try to go M and adjust everything myself, otherwise, I set it to A and still adjust the exposure compensation sometimes. I guess I'm a bit old school.

As for ISO, I try to go 100 if possible. Otherwise, I try to cap it at 400. D200 noise control is not that good. 

Intensity of light and shutter speed all depends on what kind of picture you're trying to create. Like hwchoy said, there's no right or wrong to this. Basically you just have to try a few and see which effect you like best. Alternatively, you can also combine a few of them together like using high intensity flash with slow shutter speed to create slow sync pictures. Tell you what's the best way to improve your photography, go shooting with people who knows about photography. That way, you get to learn a lot of tips from them. That's why I keep asking the guys here to go shooting so that I can learn from the sifu's here.  :Grin:

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## Simon

the onboard flash only reflects on your tank back to your lens :P

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## hwchoy

> I don't know about those lenses but the Nikon 105mm VR Macro is heavy.


this one is 760g, a bit heavy for this class of lens but still OK.

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## valice

> I'm using Nikon D200, I don't need ST-E2, plus I can use my on-board flash as an additional light source if I want to.


Oh. That's for Robert.  :Grin: 

On board flash creates that deer-in-the-headlights look sometimes. And to compensate against that look, the shutter speed has to be slowed down. And for fast fish, you have a problem. Fishes like betta and slower fishes, not a big problem.

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## luenny

> the onboard flash only reflects on your tank back to your lens :P


Oh, I was talking about non aquarium macro. For aquarium macro, I can switch the on board flash to be effectively off and there's no reflection and it stills operate as a commander.

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## hwchoy

not all the nikon bodies can switch the on-board flash to "OFF".

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## valice

> Oh, I was talking about non aquarium macro. For aquarium macro, I can switch the on board flash to be effectively off and there's no reflection and it stills operate as a commander.


Can post the sequence of switching the flash off and still act as in commander mode? It would be useful to other Nikon users. Do mention also the model of the body you are using, since choy said that not all can switch off.  :Smile: 

Maybe can start a new thread on it? Or just mention it here. I will reorganise this thread. Later.

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## luenny

Yeah, you guys are right. Not all Nikon camera can switch off in commander mode. I don't even know which ones can and which can't. Maybe we can have a show of hands how many Nikon users around and which camera they're using then we can find out which model has which feature. Can we start a Nikon user thread or will that be causing a brand war again?

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## Shadow

I think, D40X does not even have comander mode

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