# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Invertebrates >  Problem with Gex Shrimp and Plant soil (Red)

## wooty100

Hi there, i am a new hobbyist for shrimp keeping and i have been gathering information for about 1month before deciding to try out. 

2weeks ago i bought the Gex soil and a nano tank 20x20x25 (10L) for shrimp, i poured in about 4cm of soil and i left the country to cycle for 2weeks.

Initial pour in , the water was darken by the soil and i presumed it will settle and more or less ready when i am back. 

However, the water remains darken and my filter has accumalate so much dirt and soil by the time i came back. My mom has complained of foul smell coming from the tank as well. 

Yesterday i stopped the filter and did a 70% water change and clear out my filter and the water is totally black and not cloudy. I am using Gex hang on (S). No plants or livestocks are in the tank yet. I have no lighting placed as well. 

Currently my tank is about 50% full, and i can still see that the water is dark(can see soil) but not clear water as i would expect. 

Any advice ?

----------


## wooty100

tank.jpg 

Here is a snap shot of the water ( after 12hrs of no filter )

----------


## Dscheng

During cycling. U nvr on your filter? As for me, I put ADA soil with plant. Flood with water, on filter, pour whatever fert. Within a day, the water is clear.

----------


## sheng

May i suggest you drain away the milky water. Before you top up water, cover your soil surface with plastic sheet. Top up your water slowly.

----------


## wooty100

It was like that before i left country for 2wks. I instruct my mom to not off filter until i come back for 2wks cyclying, but i was told that the tank gave a foul smell and was blackish prior my return a few days. 

I came back to realise the water is still same condition and did not improve. My filter ran for 2wks and contain black water, presumely soil and stuffs. Nothing is clear at all. Could it be the soil problem?

----------


## wooty100

another problem i was thinking, is there a soil to tank ratio ? i might top too much soil in, the whole water cycling thing is too inefficent for my tank ?

----------


## Urban Aquaria

The soil volume looks okay for the tank size, just do a series of large water changes to physically clear out the excess dirt and dust in the water column (your small filter can only trap some of the dust, the rest will tend to get re-circulated back into the tank). 

You may have gotten a particularly dusty batch of Gex soil, perhaps it could be old stock thats crumbling, so just need to do abit more work to get rid of the dust.

The cloudiness in the water could also be bacteria bloom from the tank cycling process too... hence the stinky smell. It should go away as the water clears up.

----------


## Clamence

Did u add the soil AFTER u filled the tank?

----------


## wooty100

grass.jpg

Nope, i add the water after the soil. 

This is the current state. I remove most of the water, planted some grass, top back the water with a plastic to smoothen the flow. My filter runs and clouds the water like picture. 

My friend says the current by the filter kicks the soils up which is apparent. Does soil kicks so much debris up? I gotten the soil from 24hr clementi shop

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> My friend says the current by the filter kicks the soils up which is apparent. Does soil kicks so much debris up?


If the flow from the filter is kicking up the soil or digging a crater in the substrate, then it means the flow is too strong and you need to reduce it. The constant movement of the substrate will create a cloudy/dusty environment in the tank. Thats one of the challenges when using hang-on filters, their outflow direction is fixed so you have to find ways to buffer the current if its too high.

----------


## wooty100

I have reduced the filter flow to the lowest and i am waiting to see if there is any improvements to the water colour. I have also dispose of about half of my soil to minimise the level for my tank. 

Question: If a slight disturbance will cause a stir of cloud and dust, then how do i vacuum the substrate in future ? Or i just need to do 10% water change for shrimp tank per wk regardless of the water conditions ? I intend to release 3 guppies later not sure if they will thrive in this kind of water.  :Crying:

----------


## wooty100

cloudy.jpg

This is the current status. Light is equipped and on for better gauge.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> I have reduced the filter flow to the lowest and i am waiting to see if there is any improvements to the water colour. I have also dispose of about half of my soil to minimise the level for my tank. 
> 
> Question: If a slight disturbance will cause a stir of cloud and dust, then how do i vacuum the substrate in future ? Or i just need to do 10% water change for shrimp tank per wk regardless of the water conditions ? I intend to release 3 guppies later not sure if they will thrive in this kind of water.


For tanks that use soil substrate, most people don't vacuum the substrate, that will usually just end up picking up more soil particles and dust. The waste material is meant to be broken down (by the beneficial bacteria in the soil) into nutrients for plants to use. If there are no or very few plants, then you'll need to control the bio-load and feeding and do more frequent water changes to physically remove the excess nutrients.

Not a good idea to put livestock into the tank that is still cycling (especially with cloudy water), it'll just cause unnecessary health damage and death to the fishes.





> cloudy.jpg
> 
> This is the current status. Light is equipped and on for better gauge.


Is your water level a distance below the filter's outflow ramp? If so, then water is just dropping vertically down into the tank, so its all concentrated in one spot... top up the water until the water level is just slightly above the bottom lip of the outflow ramp, that will allow the flow to travel across the water surface (instead of just dumping straight down into the tank).

----------


## seudzar

Actually, I would rinse the soil till the water is clear. Then I start to cycle

----------


## wooty100

Thx for fast replies. 

My filter has been optimised to 
1) Slowest filter
2) Almost next to the opening

so as to reduce the disturbance of the water flow.

As for soil substrate, i didnt rinse or wash because it was stated on the packaging that it was not required to. But now i m thinking twice if i should jus terminate the flow and restart the process first by soil rinsing

----------


## Urban Aquaria

If you are thinking of re-starting the tank... maybe consider other types of shrimp soil which don't crumble and don't release ammonia into the water column.

Can look at the Up Aqua Shrimp Sand, the "soil" granules are rounded and hard/solid. They don't crumble at all, so you will never encounter dusty water (i used it before for one of my shrimp grow-out tanks and it worked quite well, water was clear from the start).

Here is some info: http://www.eastoceansg.com/up-550-sh...il-p-1586.html
Example of use: http://eastoceanaquatic.blogspot.sg/...only-7750.html

----------


## wooty100

Hi Urban Aquaria, your suggestions are too enticing lol. I just cant wait to finish the process faster. Where do i need to go to get the soil?

----------


## ARTRN

Get a water clarifier from LFS and dose accordingly. You may double dose it depend on how bad the condition. It will bind pollutants in water and enables filter to work more efficient in traping those dust pollutants. With a couple of large water changes should clear up no problem.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Hi Urban Aquaria, your suggestions are too enticing lol. I just cant wait to finish the process faster. Where do i need to go to get the soil?


You can get that brand substrate from LFS like East Ocean, C328 and Seaview.

Do note some additional details on its usage and cycling process in this discussion thread: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...080#post805080

----------


## Dscheng

> cloudy.jpg
> 
> This is the current status. Light is equipped and on for better gauge.


Yours is really very cloudy. Do you slowly add the water? U should let the water clear first.. before adding live stock.

----------


## Shadow

From the picture look like the water fall from the HOB filter disturb the soil beliw. I sugest you fill the water all the way to the top. Put white color filter wool on the filter outlet, that should trap the mud/dirt.

----------


## wooty100

Hi all, the water cleared up alot since my last picture. Prehaps i put a ans nano clearmax and it helped alot. I have extra confidence then today jus launch 5 commando red shrimps , christmas moss on cured cactus wood.

----------


## wooty100

> Hi all, the water cleared up alot since my last picture. Prehaps i put a ans nano clearmax and it helped alot. I have extra confidence then today jus launch 5 commando red shrimps , christmas moss on cured cactus wood.


Hi all, it has been a day since i added 5 fire red shrimps to my tank and they are doing ok. 

From my observations,
They are slow and legathic, tend to hide at a corner.
My temperature seemed abit high at 29 from a alcohol thermometer. Not sure the accuracy. Now to think of it, do i need to buy a chiller to lower the temp to 25 or so? I would like they to breed n cross breed.

----------


## Dscheng

RCS dont really need chiller, they are quite hardy. The shrimp slow and lethargic because of the new environment or maybe your water parameters? Give them sometime, they will get used. Oh wait, do you cycle your tank water properly?

----------


## wooty100

> RCS dont really need chiller, they are quite hardy. The shrimp slow and lethargic because of the new environment or maybe your water parameters? Give them sometime, they will get used. Oh wait, do you cycle your tank water properly?


This morning i found a dead shrimp. $2 lost  :Crying: 

I looking to try to get them to breed. I understand, that the temp has to be optimum for them to do so?

----------


## seudzar

All I can say is your tank is not properly cycled

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> This morning i found a dead shrimp. $2 lost


What are the current water parameters? ie. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? If you don't have a test kit, then it'll just be guesswork at the moment and the shrimps will be the "test kits", so do be prepared to encounter additional shrimps deaths during the cycling process (since you are using them as "commando" shrimps anyways), at least until the tank is cycled and and water parameters are stable.

Actually, if you want to use shrimps as commando/test shrimp, it'll be better to use cheaper shrimps (those lower grade ones), since the attrition/death rate will be much higher during this initial period of tank cycle. Save the nice shrimps for later after the tank is stable.  :Very Happy: 




> I looking to try to get them to breed. I understand, that the temp has to be optimum for them to do so?


For RCS, they can adapt and breed at quite a wide range of temperatures. From my own experience, at tank temperatures up to 29°C-30°C, they still breed like crazy.... its usually only when water temperature is higher, then there is a noticeable drop in breeding rates. If your tank is really too warm (ie. >30°C), then you'll have to consider relocating the tank to a cooler area, reducing heat generating devices around the tank or using a fan to help reduce the water temperature to more moderate levels.

A chiller would be great if you have the budget though, just depends on whether you feel its worth the extra expenditure to improve the tank environment for RCS shrimps.

----------


## CalvinTBC

Too rush to add in shrimps since water haven really tested cycled cleared from ammonia and nitrates just my thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## wooty100

I have a 5 in 1 water testing strip. While the parameters are not ideal, it is optimum. Will post later when im back home.

----------


## Dscheng

Is 5 in 1 test kit accurate? I read from some forum that this kit is crap? I am not sure how true is that?

----------


## wooty100

No idea. The master kit for 7 test is expensive and i didn't think i should spend so much for getting into a new hobby. Lol poison

----------


## wooty100

GH 30
KH 40
PH 6.5
NO2 0.5
NO3 20

During 1st launch of livestocks . I using API 5 in 1 strips

----------


## wooty100

GH 30
KH 40
PH 6.5
NO2 0.5
NO3 0

For now. Seems like both my gold fish tank and shrimp tank same parameters. But goldfish tank is not planted and bare without substrates.  :Opps:

----------


## Urban Aquaria

Your test strips don't  measure NH3 (ammonia), which is the most toxic to livestock, so that is one very important parameter that is missing.

The No2 (nitrite) levels indicate the tank is still cycling, but the drop in No3 (nitrate) levels back to zero during cycling is an odd result. The goldfish tank should also be showing higher nitrate levels anyways.

Thats the problem with test strips, the variations in their measurements are so wide it becomes unreliable, you can't be really sure if something is wrong.

----------


## wooty100

Introduce another 15 fire reds from a seller from another forum. Got 4 or 5 bellied since last count! Excited

----------

