# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Cryptocoryne Club >  Filter to get for Cryptocyrone set-up tank.

## beetlejuice403

Hi all, had bought my crypts (all are fairly easy to keep type) from Mizu & had started to plant them into my tank (12 X 12 X 16 inches - LBH) last night to start the cycling process. However, have yet to get a suitable filter for it.... [Fauna yet to be decided what to be included; most probably Cherry & Sakura shrimps & some some fishes like Neon Tetras...] 

My questions are:

1) What type/brand/model of filter should I get for this tank set-up?
2) I'd read earlier postings for Crypts, am I correct to say that the filter should provide relatively high flowrate to simulate the water flowing current conditions in the wild streams/ rivers?
3) Is internal filter (e.g. Eheim Pick-up range) suitable for placment in my set-up? Intend to place it few inches above the GEX substrate at the background of the tank. [Will it disturb (suck in) the substrate too much?]
4) Will it be ok for me to plant it all my crypts (& other plants) into my tank first while searching for the IDEAL filter in the meanwhile? How long can the plants in the tank last without filter? [Am providing it with a 13W Atman clip-on light @ the time being...]
5) What other things I should take note while setting-up my crypt tank? How about in the future while maintaining this tank?

Hope to receive advises & suggestions from all experienced bros in here ASAP. Have a great weekends ahead!!  :Grin:

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## beetlejuice403

Any experts to help? Thanks!

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## spgan

> Hi all, had bought my crypts (all are fairly easy to keep type) from Mizu & had started to plant them into my tank (12 X 12 X 16 inches - LBH) last night to start the cycling process. However, have yet to get a suitable filter for it.... [Fauna yet to be decided what to be included; most probably Cherry & Sakura shrimps & some some fishes like Neon Tetras...] 
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1) What type/brand/model of filter should I get for this tank set-up?
> 2) I'd read earlier postings for Crypts, am I correct to say that the filter should provide relatively high flowrate to simulate the water flowing current conditions in the wild streams/ rivers?
> 3) Is internal filter (e.g. Eheim Pick-up range) suitable for placment in my set-up? Intend to place it few inches above the GEX substrate at the background of the tank. [Will it disturb (suck in) the substrate too much?]
> 4) Will it be ok for me to plant it all my crypts (& other plants) into my tank first while searching for the IDEAL filter in the meanwhile? How long can the plants in the tank last without filter? [Am providing it with a 13W Atman clip-on light @ the time being...]
> 5) What other things I should take note while setting-up my crypt tank? How about in the future while maintaining this tank?
> ...


Now I know where you are coming from with regards to my sale on Eheim Pickup filter  :Wink: .

This filter will give you the outflow you asked for. The only concern I have is if you're keeping shrimps with internal filter as you'll experience shrimplets getting into the filter area. They can be saved when changing the filter media. One workaround is to cover the bottom suction area with a cutout of a ladies' stocking. 

Hope this helps. Let me know if you're still keen with my sale. Good luck with your new tank!  :Jump for joy: 

Cheers,
- Joe.

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## beetlejuice403

> Now I know where you are coming from with regards to my sale on Eheim Pickup filter .
> 
> This filter will give you the outflow you asked for. The only concern I have is if you're keeping shrimps with internal filter as you'll experience shrimplets getting into the filter area. They can be saved when changing the filter media. One workaround is to cover the bottom suction area with a cutout of a ladies' stocking. 
> 
> Hope this helps. Let me know if you're still keen with my sale. Good luck with your new tank! 
> 
> Cheers,
> - Joe.


Hi Joe,

thanks for the reply... Am thinking if your Eheim pickup 2008 will be taking up quite a big space in my 1 feet tank...  :Roll Eyes:  [If so, it'll leaves me less space to grow flora or keep fauna... & I'll also need to find flora to hide the filter... Sigh!!!]

Now am contemplating to get your Eheim filter & use it in my other 1.5 feet tank (rearing goldfishes - lucky them, gets to use an EHEIM filter!!), then take its current 7-Star SF-601 to be used in my this 16 inches tall 1-feet tank... 

As I'm putting this tall 1-feet tank in my Study Room (just next to my PC monitor, I need equipment that are small & yet powerful to do its job...)

Will let you know soon if I'm taking up your Eheim Pickup 2008. Thanks!  :Smile:

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## illumbomb

From my limited experience, I do not think a high flow rate is required to grow cryptocoryne well. I qualify first that I have only tried growing cryptocoryne easily available from LFS in planted tanks so far, i.e. c. balansae, c. wendtii, etc and have given tons of them away when I shutted down my 2.5ft planted tank in 2004. I only had just a small atman internal filter inside then.


The 2.5 feet tank with c. balansae on the left and small atmam internal filter on the right in 2003.


I gave more than 1 pail of such cryptocorynes harvested from my 2.5 ft tank away when I shutted down the tank in end 2004.

Strong light + high dosage of fetilisers (I fed them through the water column, not using root fertilisers) + CO2 injection will definately make them grow like monster plants. My current ikea jar tank (both about 8 inch in diameter and height with GEX substrate) in my office with no filter / no task light other than ambient light / no fertiliser dosage contains c. wendtii which are growing pretty well too in my opinion.  :Razz: 



Do not shift the cryptocoryne around in your new tank once you planted them and I think cooler water (i.e. with the help of fan) may help to keep them healthier too. As for filter, I suggest that you just ensure that the flow is sufficiently strong to circulate the water around the tank for your filter to be effective would do. Don't think the shrimps and fishes would like to stay in water with too strong currents.

Hope other real experts can give you more pointers.  :Smile:

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## rwalker

> My current ikea jar tank (both about 8 inch in diameter and height with GEX substrate) in my office with no filter / no task light other than ambient light / no fertiliser dosage contains c. wendtii which are growing pretty well too in my opinion.


Cool!!!
Don't know they can even grow under ambient lights.

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## beetlejuice403

Thanks illumbomb, thanks from your great sharing... ok, so now I know that crypts don't need really strong flowrate to grow well... [Anyway, most of my crypts now are turning yellowish & starting to melt. I know this is expected but don't know if mine case are too extreme (crypt death instead of crypt melt...  :Crying: ) 

Btw, when you mentioned you dosed ferts via the the water column instead of via substrate fert, is it supposed to support better growth of the crypts? I'd bought Wonder-gro Roots+ intending to be used for these crypts... & the jar tank looks great!!

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## illumbomb

How about letting us know which cryptocorynes (you bought on-line so should know the species right?) you currently have as well as some water parameters (if you know). Also, how strong are the lighting you are using? Are you using CO2? Any photograph of the set-up? 

Many cryptocoryes can overgrow your 1 feet tank easily you know once they establish themselves. And the nano tank being very small, the water parameters can change easily and this can cause havoc to your shrimps and cryptocorynes if not controlled well (I think you need to be especially careful on the water you use for water change.). I have 2 nano tanks at home with most of the cryptocorynes and shrimps wiped out (although ammonia reading is "0").  :Embarassed:  I am intending to convert one to a swamp peat cryptocoryne flowering tank with water filled up to less than half way mark only and using peat + ADA substrate with maybe just a wild betta / gourami inside!  :Evil:  Haha.

I did not use any substrate fertiliser at all previously (with just lapis sand) so I could only conclude that those cryptocorynes that I kept could grow very well with fertilising (EI method) through the water column. You have to ask others if they had experience with using JUST root fertilisers. Good luck!

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## beetlejuice403

Sigh!! Guess I'm too late... most of my crypts had melted (& maybe died!!) [Think I bought Cypt Parva, Willisis, Mi Oya, Spirallis etc...]

Had taken some pics, can anyone advise if my crypts still have any chance of 'revival' or should I just be hard-hearted in pulling ourt all the crypts' roots & forskae this crypt-tank... Really disheartened at my first failed Crypt attempt...  :Crying:

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## David Moses Heng

mnfbro bettlejuice 403, don't be dishearten. Give your tank some more time and check properly. I believe your crypts have not died as yet. Check with the experts in the forum and follow their advise faithully and you will be okay. if you want some specimens i don't mind sparing you some. 

Cheers!!

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## beetlejuice403

> mnfbro bettlejuice 403, don't be dishearten. Give your tank some more time and check properly. I believe your crypts have not died as yet. Check with the experts in the forum and follow their advise faithully and you will be okay. if you want some specimens i don't mind sparing you some. 
> 
> Cheers!!


 Thanks a lot Bro Altum_lover76, really appreciate your kind gesture.  :Smile:  [Maybe will get from you if my crypts in the tank really up-lorry...  :Crying: ] Roughly how long do I need to wait to see if my crypts will be revived? (can't find any signs of new leaves growing out...)

Noticed some hairy stuffs (might be some hair algae kind of stuffs...) growing on the melted leaves, very unsightly... Should I pluck & remove all these melted leaves out of the tank or just leave it inside? Am afraid of the melted leaves spoiling the water parameters, hence don't dare to introduce any fauna in yet...

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## redcaptrio

IMO, crypts really need an established tank to start growing well.. i believe you need to properly setup your tank (i.e., lights, substrate, filters, ferts, co2) before you add plants even though plants don't need a cycled tank.. all rotting leaves should be remove from the tank as they will deteriorate the water quality, more so if you don't have proper filtration.. fauna comes after 2-3weeks of cycling..

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## Mizu World

Things happen faster in a 1ft tank, compared to bigger sized tanks. The change in acidity of the substrate is probably what is causing it to melt.

Just remove the melted leaves and wait for new growth. These are capable of growing out from mere stumps. 
Patience is the key to handling Crypts.

By the way, it's still underplanted.  :Smile:

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## beetlejuice403

> Things happen faster in a 1ft tank, compared to bigger sized tanks. The change in acidity of the substrate is probably what is causing it to melt.
> 
> Yup... too bad I do not have the space to spare another 2-feet tank in my place for the crypts... Just very heart pain to see them melt as compared to its very healthy & beautifyl form when I first got them from ou Ben... 
> 
> Just remove the melted leaves and wait for new growth. These are capable of growing out from mere stumps. 
> Patience is the key to handling Crypts.
> 
> Had done so today, collected a Tau Hway tub of melted crypts... Think will be doing the same over the next few days for the remaining few stems of about to melt crypts... Had left the roots (or rhizhomes or whatever you call them) in the substrate, hopefully will see new growth of fresh crypt leaves in the coming days (weeks or even longer?)... Ok... I know... PATIENCE is the word... [By the way, can I add in any fauna to cycle my tank given such massive crypt melt situation? If yes, what fauna may I add? Added some Ramshorn snails to control algae in the tank...]
> 
> By the way, it's still underplanted.


LOL!!! As compared to the pros in here... I know it's surely considered barren to them... Now in an awkard situation - don't know if I should see any signs of reversal in my crypts before I add in more flora or I should just get some more flora to plant inside while waiting... [If have to wait, roughly how long?] Any advise??  :Jump for joy:

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## doppelbanddwarf

Practical Fishkeeping magazine has just the article for you:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...php?blogid=182

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## Yoong

Beetlejuice,
Growing crypts submerge is a challange. You need an established tank to grow them, otherwise they will melt. The melted leaves will release toxic substances and cause further melt. It may also sometime toxic to the fauna in your tank.

There is two options for you now.

1. leave them there and hope that they can survive. As long as the condition is correct for the specific type of crypts, they will regrow. Some believe that crypts are very adaptive and the melting is just part of its way to adapt to the new environement.

2. Dig out all the roots and fload them on aged water and support with florecence light. As long as the rizhome is healthy, this method usually able to revive the crypt.

Yoong

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## beetlejuice403

> Practical Fishkeeping magazine has just the article for you:
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...php?blogid=182


Thanks limchongyu for the article, situation seems similar to mine... hope mine will revive back in good growth like his...  :Smile: 




> Beetlejuice,
> Growing crypts submerge is a challange. You need an established tank to grow them, otherwise they will melt. The melted leaves will release toxic substances and cause further melt. It may also sometime toxic to the fauna in your tank.
> 
> There is two options for you now.
> 
> 1. leave them there and hope that they can survive. As long as the condition is correct for the specific type of crypts, they will regrow. Some believe that crypts are very adaptive and the melting is just part of its way to adapt to the new environement.
> 
> 2. Dig out all the roots and fload them on aged water and support with florecence light. As long as the rizhome is healthy, this method usually able to revive the crypt.
> 
> Yoong


Thanks Yoong, had chose & done Option 1 but siphoned out all the melted leaves leaving only the roots still in the substrate... Guess I was too impatient back then - didn't establish my tank first before planting in my crypts. It will be a BIG lesson that I'll remember forever...  :Sad:

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## Mizu World

Putting new Crypts in established tanks does not ensure that they will not melt. They melt so that they transit for new growth and adapt to their new environment.

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## David Moses Heng

> Thanks Yoong, had chose & done Option 1 but siphoned out all the melted leaves leaving only the roots still in the substrate... *Guess I was too impatient back then - didn't establish my tank first before planting in my crypts.* It will be a BIG lesson that I'll remember forever...


 
sorry but i also didn't cycled when i plant my crypts. out of the whole lot, only 4 melted but they came back to life within weeks. I believe strongly that the key to planting crypts is not about how cycled the tank is but rather the planting process. I make this statement because for the Montfort tank, I actually intentionally plant some of them into the substrate without trimming the roots and pushing in the roots using my fingers. I applied this to about 10 plantlets. *They Melted on the second day.* For another 10 plantlets, i trimmed the roots to about 1 cm and i use planting tweezers to plant them. They did ok.

By the way, i did the planting half and hour after filling the tank with water and did i mentioned that i DON't believe in tank cycling.

Just my 2 cents worth.....

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## beetlejuice403

Hi all, took some photos of my Crypt tank after setting it up for 1 months plus already... Some pics first...

Front view - Sorry for the blur image but have to blame it on the 'strong' water current in the tank  :Surprised: ; or maybe cause I'm using an outdated Canon G2; but definitely not to do with my shaky hands!!!  :Laughing: 



Top view - Now don't know which plant is what crypt already... Any experts?



As seen from pics & compared to the initial melting, crypts had been revived & grown quite a bit (thanks to Wondergro Roots +)... However, noted lately that growth rate had been slower, does it mean I need to insert Roots + again?

Had placed in 2 Cherries, 1 Sakura & 1 Taiwan Shrimps as commandos first... Sadly, 1 Cherry was KIA  :Crying: ... Observing how the surviving 3 fight the war in this crypt forest before I send in the next batallion of shrimps troops...  :Grin: 

Opps! Forgot to add that I intend to import around 10 foreign talents (Neon Tetras) from my existing Nano tank into this Crypt tank this coming weekends to add some bright colours & life to it... Any strong objections (advises against doing so) on this are welcome... As for the vacated Nano tank, intend to bring it into my room & start my journey on CRS rearing...  :Grin:  [Hopefully it can achieve temperature of lower than 28`C on average inside my room... then dunid to spend on a fan again...] Below is a pic of my Nano tank with the 10 incoming Neon Tetras... Cheers!



Comments are welcome!! Thanks!

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