# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna >  Pseudomugil sp. "Red Neon"

## stormhawk

I bought these yesterday at C328 for a friend who is into blue eye rainbowfish and they are stunning when fully settled in. Some Pseudomugil enthusiasts call them Pseudomugil cf. paskai since they resemble Ps. paskai.



One of the 4 males.



The alpha male in relaxed mood.





Alpha male flaring. Pardon the pictures, taken with an old camera plus shaky hands and dirty glass. Both pictures taken when they were still in the bag.



The nicest of the 3 females in the group.



Pair displaying while still in the bag.

This is a new rainbowfish, suspected to be a new species or a hybrid between 2 Pseudomugil species. They apparently came from a trader in Java, Indonesia and was sold as sp. "Red Neon" by him. Information from this forum:

http://www.rainbowfish.info/forum/vi...hp?f=80&t=2870

To me, these new Pseudomugil resemble gertrudae but they are nice in their own right.  :Grin:

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## ZackZhou

They have it at jxz boutique too if I'm not wrong, when asked, the shopkeeper just told me its a new species rainbow fish. Haha
Mod, do they school?

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## Navanod

The pectoral fins reminds me of Pseudomugil furcatus while the flaring of the other fins the Iriatherina werneri...very interesting.

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## Oliverpool

interesting looking fish. Are they top dwellers and how big do they potentially grow to?

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## RonWill

Oliver, if these behave like _P.gertrudae_, then most likely mid~surface dwellers. If in doubt, go lookie at GC uncle's tank...  :Grin:

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## stormhawk

They are exactly like what Ronnie says. The alpha male is the only one with the longest dorsal fin that ends with that white streamer, while the other males have shorter dorsal fins like in the first picture. However in small tanks the males can get aggressive. Oddly, the females are somewhat aggressive too, especially the female I photographed. They do not school, though sub-dominant fish will stay together in a small group with some skirmishes.

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## Oliverpool

> Oliver, if these behave like _P.gertrudae_, then most likely mid~surface dwellers. If in doubt, go lookie at GC uncle's tank...


Lovely! Good stuff always seem to be there AFTER my visit there!  :Grin:

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## Oliverpool

> They are exactly like what Ronnie says. The alpha male is the only one with the longest dorsal fin that ends with that white streamer, while the other males have shorter dorsal fins like in the first picture. However in small tanks the males can get aggressive. Oddly, the females are somewhat aggressive too, especially the female I photographed. They do not school, though sub-dominant fish will stay together in a small group with some skirmishes.


Does a bunch of fishes always have only one alpha male? Or one of the male will always become the alpha when transferred to a new tank?

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## stormhawk

In some species, they will form a pecking order, whereby one or two fishes will be dominant over the others. The fish will establish the order among themselves, even when transferred to a new tank. These small guys are not that vicious, unlike the pencilfishes, which can really beat each other up to death.

Forgot to add this, but this species is pretty small. None of them exceeded 3cm in length though if the gertrudae is anything to go by, they ought to get bigger in size.

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## Shi Xuan

> In some species, they will form a pecking order, whereby one or two fishes will be dominant over the others. The fish will establish the order among themselves, even when transferred to a new tank. These small guys are not that vicious, unlike the pencilfishes, which can really beat each other up to death.
> 
> Forgot to add this, but this species is pretty small. None of them exceeded 3cm in length though if the gertrudae is anything to go by, they ought to get bigger in size.


Jianyang, are these the ones in plastic bags near the cashier? I was there 2 days ago but the shop was packed, so I didn't catch a clear glimpse of them. 




> Oliver, if these behave like _P.gertrudae_, then most likely mid~surface dwellers. If in doubt, go lookie at GC uncle's tank...


I think it's time I pay a visit to GC again, I was there last saturday & had a good & long chat with the uncle, he's very nice indeed. :Laughing:  
I'll bring along my tall & skinny friend again! :Grin:

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## stormhawk

Yes Shi Xuan, they were in the individual bags in one huge bag hanging near the angelfish tank. I took the last 7 pieces that were in the big bag, but I believe others have bought it already. A very interesting import however, just like the Oryzias woworae that were at C328 some months ago. I missed that one... had a single male left when I saw it. Didn't make sense to just keep one so I didn't buy the lone male.

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## lucasjiang

i bought 3 pairs, i realise they stay near the bottom of the tank. However none of mine have the long trailing fins of an alpha male.

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## RonWill

> Good stuff always seem to be there AFTER my visit there!


 Heh... you didn't miss anything. Those blue-eyes are declared shopmaster's pet!!  :Grin: 

They're sharing a tank with 2 display trios of _Chromaphysemion splendopleure_ 'Ekondo Titi' and yet to color up to their full potential, like some online images. The dorsal finage has but the tiniest tinge of red, no spots or extensions, and I'm thinking the earlier buyers might have gotten the better pieces. Then again, the GC uncle is always game (read; sucker  :Grin: ) for new species, as long as they're not hybrids!!!

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## Oliverpool

> Heh... you didn't miss anything. Those blue-eyes are declared shopmaster's pet!! 
> 
> They're sharing a tank with 2 display trios of _Chromaphysemion splendopleure_ 'Ekondo Titi' and yet to color up to their full potential, like some online images. The dorsal finage has but the tiniest tinge of red, no spots or extensions, and I'm thinking the earlier buyers might have gotten the better pieces. Then again, the GC uncle is always game (read; sucker ) for new species, as long as they're not hybrids!!!


Did you see how they are colouring up so far? Pretty fishes I must say esp if they do colour up.

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## RonWill

Oliver, you should see the new batch of _Pseudomugil_ sp. Red Neons!!! Sweee!!! Not only that, check out the _Pseudomugil ivantsoffi_ as well. Subtle colors like the _P. gertrudae_ but just as nice!!

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## charcaradon megaldon

Ronnie and Stormhawk,

How big do these P. "Red Neon" get? If it they don't get too big, I might consider adding them to the tank as well. I wonder if they are good if kept 2-3 in quantity. I know that for P. Gertrudae, it is recommended to have a at least 6 more in the tank. Any thoughts?

Thanks guys!

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## RonWill

Charcaradon, I reckon the Reds will grow between 2.5 - 3cm max in captivity, similar to the _P. ivantsoffi_. I'd go with a mixed-sex group of 6's, even if it's just to watch the males flare in mock fights.

BTW, I'm Ron. Good to have you onboard and how do I address you?

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## charcaradon megaldon

Hi Ron,

Not sure if I'll have roon in my 1ft tank for 6 more fish. I am looking to add 3 more to the existing CPD in the tank right now. 

Your thoughts? 

This board is awesome! Thanks for having me here. 

-MT

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## lucasjiang

Since these fish do not grow really large, i think 6 more fish will be ok. As long as you have a filter that can handle the bioload, i dont see any potential problems. However i will suggest adding more vegetation in your tank for the pseudomugil "red neon" to hide.. This is because i realise in my case the pseudomugil "red neon" males are really enthusiastic about chasing the females, and sometimes it stresses the females.

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## charcaradon megaldon

Lucas,

Thanks for the tips bro! 

I think my filter should be able to handle the bioload. Afterall, these are pretty small fish and like I've mentioned before, I only have 3 CPD in the tank right now. 

What do you feed the red neons with?

At the end of the day, I am really just looking for low maintenance fish to bring some spunk into the tank! Haha....

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## PupiPupi

Hi,

Are then generally peaceful fishes? So pretty. I'd like them to join my 3ft tank family. But I have peaceful fishes in it already. About 20 rummies, 3 WCMM, 6 dwarf puffers, 4 German Blue Rams, 10 yamatoes, 4 pristella tetras and a lot a lot of cherry shrimps and malayan shrimps. Will these attack my peace loving fishies?

I do have hiding places in my tank. Plants and all... Your thoughts?

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## stormhawk

These small fishes are peaceful and only skirmish among themselves. The problem in this case will be the puffers, because they do nip fins and will make short work of your shrimps. As long as the pH stays around 7, they should be fine in a community setting with your fishes.

If they are wild-caught, you might have a hard time getting them to eat sinking flake or pellet foods. I fed those in my temporary care with grindals before they moved on to their new home.

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## PupiPupi

> These small fishes are peaceful and only skirmish among themselves. The problem in this case will be the puffers, because they do nip fins and will make short work of your shrimps. As long as the pH stays around 7, they should be fine in a community setting with your fishes.
> 
> If they are wild-caught, you might have a hard time getting them to eat sinking flake or pellet foods. I fed those in my temporary care with grindals before they moved on to their new home.


Yes about the puffers. I've been warned several times about my puffers nipping the fins of my other fishes. So far, even though my snail problem has been eliminated, the puffers have not harmed the other fishes. I'm wondering if I'm just lucky that my puffers are behaving "abnormally" or it's just that it's yet to happen. Sounds like this Red Neon is hard to find though. I guess I'll let fate decide next time I step into C328. 

Thanks for the advice!

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## stormhawk

FYI, the Red Neon are pretty pricey with a 2 digit price at most LFS. They are seasonal fish I think. I missed a batch of Oryzias woworae Muna Island some time ago. Sad though because that fish is spectacular for a rice fish.

I guess in your case, the Puffers are fat and happy. In some situations, they nip because they're hungry. However, I wouldn't trust them with shrimps at any time.

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## PupiPupi

> FYI, the Red Neon are pretty pricey with a 2 digit price at most LFS. They are seasonal fish I think. I missed a batch of Oryzias woworae Muna Island some time ago. Sad though because that fish is spectacular for a rice fish.
> 
> I guess in your case, the Puffers are fat and happy. In some situations, they nip because they're hungry. However, I wouldn't trust them with shrimps at any time.


Thanks for the heads up on the price. Maybe I'm just a weird person with weird fishes. I'm constantly worried about the puffers. So I guess I have to keep monitoring. I do feed all of them frozen blood worms. I dunno if that helps but I figure if they all get a share of these bloody things, they might be happier and less likely to attack their neighbors. Keeping my fingers crossed about my puffers. Maybe cos they are very very small. They are in fact, smaller than a lot of my shrimps. I've seen a small shrimp climb onto a puffer and hitching a ride upwards. It was pretty hilarious. 

I wish more great LSF opened in the East. I'm always running to C328 and Seaview.... Way too far. and now Seaview is moving to YISHUN? No fair!

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## lucasjiang

> Lucas,
> 
> Thanks for the tips bro! 
> 
> I think my filter should be able to handle the bioload. Afterall, these are pretty small fish and like I've mentioned before, I only have 3 CPD in the tank right now. 
> 
> What do you feed the red neons with?
> 
> At the end of the day, I am really just looking for low maintenance fish to bring some spunk into the tank! Haha....


Hmm, i realise it is hard to feed them as they are small, and they do not eat dry food. I think frozen daphnia would be good to start with, or if you have access live daphnia or live baby brine shrimp, those would be better.

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## stormhawk

They have small mouths so regular size FBW like those from Hikari are a no-go where they are concerned. You need to find smaller sized FBW or culture grindal worms, or feed them with frozen Daphnia/BBS etc. Last I recall, the farms at Jalan Kayu were given the choice to move to Lorong Chencharu, just across the road from Sembawang Airbase. I wouldn't say it's close to Yishun, but it's not exactly the easiest of places to go to.

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## Oliverpool

> Oliver, you should see the new batch of _Pseudomugil_ sp. Red Neons!!! Sweee!!! Not only that, check out the _Pseudomugil ivantsoffi_ as well. Subtle colors like the _P. gertrudae_ but just as nice!!


Where where!!!

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## charcaradon megaldon

> Where where!!!


I saw both Red Neon and Ivantsoffi at both C328 and GC. At C328, the Ivantsoffi it is hanging towards the back and on the lefthand side in front of all the plastic bags + tanks with the shrimps. It is selling in a pair with the male and female in seperate plastic bags which are inside a big plastic bag with "Ivantsoffi" marked on the plastic bag courtesy of a black marker. If I recall correctly, C328 wants $30 for the pair - the price is marked outside of the bag as well. 

@Ron, Stormhawk, and/or other Gurus reading this thread: Will it be cheaper to get these kinds of fish at Seaview? Or is the amount of the money saved is compromised by the lack of public transportation?

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## stormhawk

Unless you are going to Seaview to buy a lot of things, and it is easily accessible from where you live, I don't think there's a big difference where you buy your fish from.  :Wink: 

Ps. ivantsoffi is a nice species, but if you're not into rainbows or just want it for a community setup, keeping cheaper ones like Ps. gertrudae / Ps. furcatus would be better. The trade name for the Red Neon locally is Red Furcata, or so the staff at C328 say.

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## Oliverpool

> Hmm, i realise it is hard to feed them as they are small, and they do not eat dry food. I think frozen daphnia would be good to start with, or if you have access live daphnia or live baby brine shrimp, those would be better.


I Got 4 from GC yesterday. They seem to eat the small pallets from NLS that I feed all my other fishes. They responded to three feedings of NLS already. I understand the GC uncle feeds them small pallets from Hikira. 

They are pretty active fishes and very unafraid of people. In fact they seem to swim right up towards me when I approach the tank. Because of that my CPD comes out more instead of hide when I approach the tank. They are mainly mid to low level swimmers but seem to sleep near the top at night. Lovely eyes.

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## RonWill

> I understand the GC uncle feeds them small pallets from Hikira


 Pallets?? Erhm... you meant pellets! More precisely, it's grounded/finely crushed Carnivore tablets and ya, it's easier for others when uncle's fishes go through boot camp, adjusting to food and strangers. What's this NLS you mentioned? Perhaps I can take a pinch from you should we happen to meet at GC.

Oh ya, I was informed earlier that GC uncle was involved in an accident and will be on MC for the next 3 days. Crap!! He might be built to last like a Russian tank but he's gonna be bored stiff limping around and recuperating from home.

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## limz_777

nice colouration , has it breed yet ?

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## RonWill

Working on it. How's yours coming along?

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## stormhawk

Best time to stun the uncle at home..  :Grin:

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## RonWill

Don't forget you have a 30m NO-CROSS zone within the proximity of his residence  :Grin:

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## stormhawk

More like 30m zone of smiling at security camera.  :Grin:

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## Oliverpool

> Pallets?? Erhm... you meant pellets! More precisely, it's grounded/finely crushed Carnivore tablets and ya, it's easier for others when uncle's fishes go through boot camp, adjusting to food and strangers. What's this NLS you mentioned? Perhaps I can take a pinch from you should we happen to meet at GC.
> 
> Oh ya, I was informed earlier that GC uncle was involved in an accident and will be on MC for the next 3 days. Crap!! He might be built to last like a Russian tank but he's gonna be bored stiff limping around and recuperating from home.


Tell Uncle to take care and come back soon! Take it easy and don't chiong everywhere lah!

NLS is New Life Science. Suppose to be pretty good food. I been feeding my fishes just NLS pellets with no variety to see if it does make a difference. All my fishes seems to love it. I will bring some up the next time I meet up with you to let you try it!

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## stormhawk

One thing to take note of. If you are feeding NLS pellets, their containers are not air tight so a small packet of desiccant is recommended to be placed in side.

I had a container of NLS pellets at one time because I needed something to feed my fish. Only the Cardinal Tetras in my tank would touch them. The rest pretty much did not even eat it. Even my Corydoras ignored the pellets. I guess different experiences for everyone.

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## Oliverpool

> One thing to take note of. If you are feeding NLS pellets, their containers are not air tight so a small packet of desiccant is recommended to be placed in side.
> 
> I had a container of NLS pellets at one time because I needed something to feed my fish. Only the Cardinal Tetras in my tank would touch them. The rest pretty much did not even eat it. Even my Corydoras ignored the pellets. I guess different experiences for everyone.


Hmm. My nls bottle looks pretty airtight. But then again I transferred some to a small container and used it from there. Thanks for letting me know. 

Only think I do not like about it is that it seems to be a little "oily". It does leave a slight oil film on the water unlike other food. The oil film dissipate pretty fast in my tank though. Strange my cpd, rummy and red neon seems to really like it. 

Maybe they changed the formula?

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## PupiPupi

Ok. I took the plunge and invested in 2 pseudomugil ivantsoffi from GC. One make and one female. As Stormhawk advised, not cheap. But so pretty! 

Hopefully they will colour up soon!

Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## RonWill

Is that _P. ivantsoffi_ or 'Red Neon'? Either one is still as pretty. When did you buy them?

These little buggers are taking to crushed Hikari carnivore tables but if you can condition them well on livefoods (tubifex, moina, etc) and put in a spawning mop (other fine leaved plants or a clump of moss), they might be coaxed to spawn.

If you have multiple males, you'll be dazzled by their mock fight display, something like this [thread from rainbowfish.org]

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## charcaradon megaldon

> Ok. I took the plunge and invested in 2 pseudomugil ivantsoffi from GC. One make and one female. As Stormhawk advised, not cheap. But so pretty! 
> 
> Hopefully they will colour up soon!
> 
> Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2


Good job, sister! Thumbs up!  :Grin:

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## PupiPupi

> Is that _P. ivantsoffi_ or 'Red Neon'? Either one is still as pretty. When did you buy them?
> 
> These little buggers are taking to crushed Hikari carnivore tables but if you can condition them well on livefoods (tubifex, moina, etc) and put in a spawning mop (other fine leaved plants or a clump of moss), they might be coaxed to spawn.
> 
> If you have multiple males, you'll be dazzled by their mock fight display, something like this [thread from rainbowfish.org]


 its Ivantsoffi for sure unless thw GC.bros made a mistake!

Chacaragon has seen my tank before. Moderately planted with lots of moss around. So I hope they are happy. I'm not that ambitious. Not thinking of spawning yet. I'm just hoping they will survive and colour up. Their blue eyes are already so striking from a distance. 

Feeding them the same pellet food as their other tank mates,.which are my rumors, CPDs, rams, gouramis and shrimps. saw they gobbling up the food. Guess tgey are really hungry. 




> Good job, sister! Thumbs up!


M.T! I'm so scared of them ding on me! hope my shrimps and plants are serving you well. 


Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## stormhawk

Ivantsoff's Blue Eye has 2 reddish streaks on the top and bottom edge of the tail fin. Not easily confused with Red Neon, except perhaps with Ps. furcata.

As long as they are taking dried foods you have little to worry. Placing some floating spawning mops will help to collect the eggs, or better still, keep them in their own tank.

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## charcaradon megaldon

PupiPupi,

I am pretty sure the P. Ivantsoffi will do well in your tank. I am not an experts when it comes to pseudomugil so I am going to defer to Stormhawk, but I think all the float mini lettuce might be able to serve the function of floating mop? SH, what do you say? 

The plants and shrimps are doing well! Once again, thank you for your generosity!  :Wink:  

But I did have one died in the tank and I am not sure what happened. I added 2 more amano/yamato shrimps yesterday to serve as the leftover fish food/algae cleaner. 

The only malay shrimp actually molded this morning - hopefully that is an indication that the water condition is ok for the shrimps. 

I think I got a female shrimp (with a gold plate/ovaries) on the back of the head. Cannot find that one right now. I thought it might kicked the bucket but I didn't see any shells and I did not see any floating parts. Probably pulled a Houdini on me. I would like to get more female shrimps to see if I can start breeding them in my tank - always a WIP.  :Grin: 

Any suggestions or advice will be appreciated!

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## PupiPupi

> PupiPupi,
> 
> I am pretty sure the P. Ivantsoffi will do well in your tank. I am not an experts when it comes to pseudomugil so I am going to defer to Stormhawk, but I think all the float mini lettuce might be able to serve the function of floating mop? SH, what do you say? 
> 
> The plants and shrimps are doing well! Once again, thank you for your generosity!  
> 
> But I did have one died in the tank and I am not sure what happened. I added 2 more amano/yamato shrimps yesterday to serve as the leftover fish food/algae cleaner. 
> 
> The only malay shrimp actually molded this morning - hopefully that is an indication that the water condition is ok for the shrimps. 
> ...


Show us a picture! And apologies for all that typo... Replying from a mobile phone is always iffy!

Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## PupiPupi

And oh yes, in response to Chacaradon's post, when shrimps moult, it means they are growing. That's a good sign and that they love their new home! I just rescaped my goldfish tank and found it exploding with shrimps and shirmplets. So if you need more of those shrimps, you know where to find me. 

Less than 24 hours after releasing the Ivantsoffi into my tank, they seem to be colouring up a little. I was trying my hardest to take pictures of them like Stormhawk did. But darn they are fast! So I thought a short video of them will help share with you guys my most expensive fauna yet:

https://www.facebook.com/video/video...50516206542914

By the way, whilst I was at GC, the bros there told me that the Red Nanos are smaller than the Ivantsoffi. So maybe this will help some of us in identifying those pretty little things.

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## PupiPupi

> Ivantsoff's Blue Eye has 2 reddish steaks on the top and bottom edge of the tail fin. Not easily confused with Red Neon, except perhaps with Ps. furcata.
> 
> As long as they are taking dried foods you have little to worry. Placing some floating spawning mops will help to collect the eggs, or better still, keep them in their own tank.


I'm at C328. Looking at fishes that really resembles my Ivantsoffi. Aunty says it's Furcata? Like Stormhawk mentioned. 

How you teach me how to tell them.apart? Cos its seriously disturbing that the Furcata costs only $1.20 when my.Ivantsoffis are $20 each. Not that the Furcatas aren't pretty too. 
Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## RonWill

> How you teach me how to tell them.apart?


 Pictures speaketh a thousand words.

*Pseudomugil ivantsoffi* vs *P. furcatus*

The _furcatus_, like _gertrudae_, has been in the trade for a long time and quite commonly available. _P. ivantsoffi_, however, are rarely sighted at LFS. Personally, I seriously want some _P. mellis_ and _P. tenellus_ in my tanks!!!

Hmm... if only I have enough Aussie fish-friends to chime in!!  :Roll Eyes:

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## stormhawk

The Red Neon is a little smaller than the Ps. ivantsoffi, but I doubt there is a major size difference when they are mature adults. Simple way to tell them apart is the red colouration of the bodies of the Red Neon males. Ivantsoffi tend to look more yellowish. Red Neon males also have that blue neon stripe running along the dorsal part of the body just beneath the fins, which you can see in the pictures I took on the first page. Female Red Neon have yellow tips to their fins.

Ps. ivantsoffi is also more deeper bodied as compared to the Red Neon.

See these pages to understand how different Ps. ivantsoffi is from Ps. furcatus:

http://www.iriatherina-werneri.com/i...4_012_150k.jpg <-- Ps. furcatus (again, superb pic)
http://www.pinkgrapefruit.net/hans/P...DSC_0045v3.jpg <-- Ivantsoff's (best pic I found online so far)

You can't mistake these 2 for the same species.

It's easy to get confused between Ivantsoff's and the Red Neon at first glance though, but easy to tell apart in the end.

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## charcaradon megaldon

> Show us a picture!


Haha...I will post a pic or 2 in the next couple of days. My tank is nowhere near as fancy and as elaborate as yours and other mavens read/participated in this thread. I only have a 1ft tank w/ LED and a submersible filter + homemade CO2. :Roll Eyes:  I am using ADA Amazonia and got some Java Fern, Nana, Golden Nana, Crypt Wendtii "Omiya", and moss in my tank. That is about it. Nothing fancy and nothing complicated. Just want a low maintenance tank for the time being.

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## charcaradon megaldon

And all these Pseudomugil talks are tempting me to start a new tank... haha  :Laughing: 

I really think Pseudomugil are neat little fish.

PuriPuri, if you want P. Gertrudae, Seaview has it for $0.60 a piece - FYI. Keep us posted on how the P. Ivantsoffi are doing.

Ron, the P. Tennellus kind of reminds me of the a cross between Fundulopanchax and Nothbranchius in terms of fins and shape. Not as colorful obviously. P. Mellis is an interesting looking fish also.

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## PupiPupi

> And all these Pseudomugil talks are tempting me to start a new tank... haha 
> 
> I really think Pseudomugil are neat little fish.
> 
> PuriPuri, if you want P. Gertrudae, Seaview has it for $0.60 a piece - FYI. Keep us posted on how the P. Ivantsoffi are doing.
> 
> Ron, the P. Tennellus kind of reminds me of the a cross between Fundulopanchax and Nothbranchius in terms of fins and shape. Not as colorful obviously. P. Mellis is an interesting looking fish also.


Start a new tank MT! You can never have too many tanks!

Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## stormhawk

You know, one tank can lead to two tanks, two tanks can lead to three, and the next thing you know it.. a whole rack. So it's best to stay within your means. Taking care of a whole rack of tanks can be a back-breaking job, not to mention the space needed if your fish are extremely productive. Ask Ronnie, he'll tell you about his experiences with Scarlet Badis...  :Laughing: 

Pupi, taking a photo is easy with a tripod and some patience. Set your camera at the point where you normally feed the fish and snap only when they are in the frame. I had those Red Neon in a Sudo Satellite L Box running off my 4 ft community tank so it was easy to get their photos. Only thing is, they were very shy to begin with.

By the way, I can't view the video. I think you need to edit your security settings on FB, or upload the video to Photobucket or Youtube.

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## limz_777

agreed that pseudomugil are neat little fish , love it when they start flaring , the dorsal and pectoral fin is nice looking

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## charcaradon megaldon

@Stormhawk - I definitely have to ask Ronnie about his experience re: scarlent badis.  :Roll Eyes:  I used to have 3 tanks (incl. a 480 liter) but those days are long gone..haha. To be honest, my next tank is looking more likely to be a planted tank /iwagumi with sulawesi shrimps. I am kind of hooked on shrimps now (Thank you, Sister PupiPupi). Maybe some Oryzias Woworae as schooling fish? Your thoughts? 

@Pupipupi - How are the new additions to the tank doing?

@Limz - I am trying not to get addicted to the pseudomugils and killies....don't think my place will be able to fit all these fish tanks.  :Smile:

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## PupiPupi

@Pupipupi - How are the new additions to the tank doing?
Hey MT, glad to have you back here. I haven't been reading up here much. So busy with work! My 3 ft has been doing ok except..... I recently had a baddddd infestation of those algae that grows on plants. What are those? They are furry and blackish. Sigh.... I've asked an LFS owner in Bedok for advice. He said that I need to change one third of my tank water out every 10 days. The problem will go away slowly. Anyone had any experience with this? I'm so bothered by it. Makes my tank look so ugly. 

Another bad news is that one of my German blue rams konked out on me yesterday. I dunno why. Other than that, every thing else is good. Shrimps are moulting daily, leaving the base of the tank littered with their transparent sheddings. My Ivantsoffis are doing well too. The pair swim every where together. And I see the male chasing the female sometimes. Pretty cool. 

Setting up a new 2 ft just for Psuedos. Cheap ones first. I will get the Furcatas from C328 and transfer some of my shrimps over from the 3ft. I'm thinking a Iwagumi scape? Is it very challenging to do that?

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## limz_777

flurry and blackish , sounds like bba

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## PupiPupi

> flurry and blackish , sounds like bba


I thought so too. I thought of.trimming away tge affected leaves.

Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## stormhawk

Oryzias woworae should be nice with the Sulawesi shrimps though I reckon the woworae may snack on any shrimplets if your Sulawesi shrimps breed.

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## limz_777

> I thought so too. I thought of.trimming away tge affected leaves.
> 
> Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2



best to trim off affected leave , bba is quite tough unless you direct dose it with excel

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## PupiPupi

> best to trim off affected leave , bba is quite tough unless you direct dose it with excel


I just found out that I actually have staghorn algae... Dosing with Seachem Flourish Excel. Hope it will help. 

Meanwhile, help me welcome my new tank mates! 2 Congo tetras and 2 unidentified but very costly shrimps! 




Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## stormhawk

Pupi, that's a cardinal shrimp - Caridina dennerli. I hope your tank is alkaline because these little guys prefer pH around 8. See this page for info:

http://atyidae.wordpress.com/cardinal_shrimp/

Did you spend around $10 for these?

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## PupiPupi

> Pupi, that's a cardinal shrimp - Caridina dennerli. I hope your tank is alkaline because these little guys prefer pH around 8. See this page for info:
> 
> http://atyidae.wordpress.com/cardinal_shrimp/
> 
> Did you spend around $10 for these?


Hi Stormhawk. Thanks for identifying. I'm in trouble then. My PH for that tank is usually about 6.7. And all my other tanks are on the slight acidic side. 

Oh no... I guess I have just brought them home to die? Yeah, C328 aunty quoted me at $5.50 each. But in the end sold them to me at $10 each. Omg... I cannot believe what I just did... Is it possible that they MIGHT just survive?

Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## lucasjiang

> Hi Stormhawk. Thanks for identifying. I'm in trouble then. My PH for that tank is usually about 6.7. And all my other tanks are on the slight acidic side. 
> 
> Oh no... I guess I have just brought them home to die? Yeah, C328 aunty quoted me at $5.50 each. But in the end sold them to me at $10 each. Omg... I cannot believe what I just did... Is it possible that they MIGHT just survive?
> 
> Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2


Hi sis,

unfortunately, these shrimps are really delicate, one of the most delicate freshwater shrimps, and there is no way they way survive in a tank with pH 6.7 In fact, they have very specific requirements, requiring high pH but at the same time low gH. The shrimps will not die immediately, but they will not survive very long in a tank with such a low pH, probably a few weeks at most. 

The best thing you can do now is to probably raise the pH of the tank to at least 7.5 (however, you must also take into consideration the other inhabitants in your tank) or if you have any established empty tank, you can add coral chips and raise the pH to at least 8, and then drip acclimatise the shrimps to the new tank.

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## Emokidz

Hmmm.. Your best bet to get them to survive is to remove them from the tank and leave them in a small critter carrier with a higher pH. They may survive for not, but will die off in the long run sicne conditions arent right.

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## stormhawk

Sulawesi shrimps are not delicate if you get the water conditions right. I'd advise you to read the various Sulawesi threads in the shrimp section before you take a plunge.

Since aunty quoted you at $5.50 per shrimp, how did it come to be $10 each? Did they make a mistake in the calculation? Often, the prices of the fishes in the betta rack are quoted by the uncle, since it seems he is in charge of that rack.

You didn't bring them home to die, and the situation can be rectified if you can set up a new tank or a critter keeper for them within the following week or so. It was an honest mistake on your part and not a big problem to begin with. So don't lose hope.  :Wink:

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## PupiPupi

> Sulawesi shrimps are not delicate if you get the water conditions right. I'd advise you to read the various Sulawesi threads in the shrimp section before you take a plunge.
> 
> Since aunty quoted you at $5.50 per shrimp, how did it come to be $10 each? Did they make a mistake in the calculation? Often, the prices of the fishes in the betta rack are quoted by the uncle, since it seems he is in charge of that rack.
> 
> You didn't bring them home to die, and the situation can be rectified if you can set up a new tank or a critter keeper for them within the following week or so. It was an honest mistake on your part and not a big problem to begin with. So don't lose hope.


Hi Stormhawk, 

I have set up a smaller tank with no live stock accept for 2 nertie horned snails. The water taken from my 3 ft tank which the shrimps are in now. I have been attempting to catch them since yesterday but it's quite tough since the tank is pretty heavily planted with tons of hiding places. I think the best plan now is to catch them, put them in the new smaller tank and slowly increase the PH until it's about an 8? If I have success in keeping them alive and happy for the next few weeks, them maybe I can consider getting getting small fishes (maybe 4 or 6) which suits the water parameters. Any suggestions on suitable fishes with high PH? 

By the way, the I asked both uncle and aunty for the price. They both quoted $5.50 each, but gave me a discount of $1 in total since I did buy a couple of other things and brought a group of friends there who made purchases as well. 

Thank you all for your advise. I would have unwittingly killed those 2 pretty little things should you not have pointed out all these.

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## stormhawk

Suitable fishes would be Oryzias species, aka Rice Fishes, or Telmatherina species, though they are probably predators on these shrimp in their natural habitat. You can keep the tank alkaline easily with some coral chips, just be sure to monitor the GH and KH over time. The Nerites are great tank mates since they prefer more alkaline water.

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## PupiPupi

> Suitable fishes would be Oryzias species, aka Rice Fishes, or Telmatherina species, though they are probably predators on these shrimp in their natural habitat. You can keep the tank alkaline easily with some coral chips, just be sure to monitor the GH and KH over time. The Nerites are great tank mates since they prefer more alkaline water.



Cool! Ok. I will buy the coral chips tonight and start shifting the PH. Hope this rescue mission works. Thanks again Stormhawk!

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## charcaradon megaldon

> @Pupipupi - How are the new additions to the tank doing?
> Hey MT, glad to have you back here. I haven't been reading up here much. So busy with work! My 3 ft has been doing ok except..... I recently had a baddddd infestation of those algae that grows on plants. What are those? They are furry and blackish. Sigh.... I've asked an LFS owner in Bedok for advice. He said that I need to change one third of my tank water out every 10 days. The problem will go away slowly. Anyone had any experience with this? I'm so bothered by it. Makes my tank look so ugly. 
> 
> Another bad news is that one of my German blue rams konked out on me yesterday. I dunno why. Other than that, every thing else is good. Shrimps are moulting daily, leaving the base of the tank littered with their transparent sheddings. My Ivantsoffis are doing well too. The pair swim every where together. And I see the male chasing the female sometimes. Pretty cool. 
> 
> Setting up a new 2 ft just for Psuedos. Cheap ones first. I will get the Furcatas from C328 and transfer some of my shrimps over from the 3ft. I'm thinking a Iwagumi scape? Is it very challenging to do that?


@PupiPupi - I am still traveling and outside of Sing as we speak. Have not had much time to check the board. But looks like you've been making great strides on expanding the bio-diversity in your tank and adding a few more tanks. 

Sorry to hear about the German Blue Ram. It was a nice looking fish. Good to hear that the shrimps and the _P. Ivantsoffi_ are doing well. 

How is your new Pseudo tank and Sulawesi tank (by default  :Wink: ) coming along? 

Staghorn algae? How often do you put liquid fertilize in your tank? You've also got a CO2 tank right?

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## charcaradon megaldon

> Cool! Ok. I will buy the coral chips tonight and start shifting the PH. Hope this rescue mission works. Thanks again Stormhawk!


Sister, looks like you are going to beat me and start a Sulaweis tank before I get there..haha.  :Roll Eyes:  You are already one foot in the water (no pun intended). 

Getting back to your question earlier about Iwagumi tank. It is not hard to set one up and it is all about individual/personal style and taste. I like Iwagumi for the simplicity and zen feel to it. But at the same time, I guess zen and simplicity do transcend beyond the Iwagumi school of aquascaping. 

Let me know how your cardinal shrimps are doing. It will be great to learn from your experience.  :Smile:

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## stormhawk

Pupi, use a very small quantity at first and go slow with the change. It is better to do this slowly, lest you end up with a high pH tank but with GH and KH not to the liking of the C. dennerli.

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## PupiPupi

> Pupi, use a very small quantity at first and go slow with the change. It is better to do this slowly, lest you end up with a high pH tank but with GH and KH not to the liking of the C. dennerli.


Hi Stormhawk, I moved them over to the new tank last night after introducing the new water to them via drip method. The strange thing was that I did a pH test on both my 3 ft tank and the new empty tank which was cycling with the snails and the pH turned out to be different even though the small tank's water came from the 3 ft tank. Maybe the lack of live stock increased the tank's pH. Anyways, my 3 ft pH read 6.8 and the small tank read 7.5 (before addition of coral chips). I proceeded to catch the cardinal shrimps. Took me close to 2 hours! Meanwhile, I had added the coral chips and medium sized coral stones to the small tank (found all these in a plastic bag in my storeroom which was from the bro I bought my 3 ft tank from. Lucky!). After 2 hours, pH of both tanks remain the same. 

I proceeded to the drip method on the shrimps in a small container, introducing the small tank's high pH water to the shrimps. This is where I got a little confused. I have 2 test kits, both from API. One is just to test pH level (they include a dropper with the pH test solution and a glass cylinder type bottle to fill with tank water) the other is a test strip that tests your GH, KH,pH, Nitrite and Nitrate levels. I used both test kits to test the pH but the reading turned out a little different. Using the dropper test kit, the pH reads 7.5. Using the strip, pH reads 7. Which do I trust? Or is there a more accurate test kit out there that any bros can recommend? Also, according to the strip test, the GH levels seem a little high for the shrimps. On the website introduced by bro Stormhawk, it says these shrimps need a 7.0 but the strip reads about a 8 or 9? Should I be concerned? If so, what should I do to lower it?

Last question, by adding the coral stones and ships (stones added directly into the tank for the shrimps to run around on it and chips added to the filter). how long before I should see an increase in pH levels? I checked it again this morning (about 9 hours since the corals were added) and there is no change to the pH levels. 

Any advice? 

Thanks!

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## PupiPupi

> Sister, looks like you are going to beat me and start a Sulaweis tank before I get there..haha.  You are already one foot in the water (no pun intended). 
> 
> Getting back to your question earlier about Iwagumi tank. It is not hard to set one up and it is all about individual/personal style and taste. I like Iwagumi for the simplicity and zen feel to it. But at the same time, I guess zen and simplicity do transcend beyond the Iwagumi school of aquascaping. 
> 
> Let me know how your cardinal shrimps are doing. It will be great to learn from your experience.


No envy here MT. I'm scared outta my wits, hoping that I'm not killing those shrimps. There's been change of a few plans whilst you've been away on my end. I had a 1 ft tank which was holding my red-clawed crabs. My mum donated(abandoned) her crabs to me, causing me to have to shift them to the new 2 feet which I originally bought for the Pseudos. So after clearing out the 1 ft tank, I did a simple set up and kept it cycling for i-dunno-what because I was gonna put the pseudo tank on hold. It is now holding my Sulawesi shrimps. Hoping they will not only survive, but do well in a higher PH tank. Drop by again when you've back. I've been planting my 3 ft. It's growing well although there's that algae problem. I dun fert my tank previously except for the Root Monster from Ocean Free which I inserted about a month ago? But I've been doing with Excel since it is said to be able to melt off the staghorn algae.

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## stormhawk

The pH levels will be noticeable after a week or so, depending on how fast the coral pieces start to break down. I usually place these in a place with high water flow so it aids in their breaking down process. Drip type tests are more accurate than test strips, unless you have those from Merck or other brands that specifically measure only pH. The multi-test strips can be inaccurate due to our humid conditions and how fast the reagents present on the strips lose their sensitivity.

You can get a pH pen, or a pH meter that will measure the pH on a permanent basis. Something like this:

http://vpmt.com/handheld%20ph%20meter.jpg

The probe goes into the tank and remains there while the display shows you the reading. The meter will need calibration every now and then, to maintain it's accuracy. With pH pens, you need to test the water sample from the tank after it has been kept in a container for a few hours to get an accurate reading. To the lower the GH you can do a slight water change, and use distilled water if available. I would advise you to get other test kits like the one from Sera or API to get a second reading, before you do this.

Is the tank for the Sulawesi filled with coral sand and coral chips? If yes, you might want to reduce it a little.

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## PupiPupi

> The pH levels will be noticeable after a week or so, depending on how fast the coral pieces start to break down. I usually place these in a place with high water flow so it aids in their breaking down process. Drip type tests are more accurate than test strips, unless you have those from Merck or other brands that specifically measure only pH. The multi-test strips can be inaccurate due to our humid conditions and how fast the reagents present on the strips lose their sensitivity.
> 
> You can get a pH pen, or a pH meter that will measure the pH on a permanent basis. Something like this:
> 
> http://vpmt.com/handheld%20ph%20meter.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> The probe goes into the tank and remains there while the display shows you the reading. The meter will need calibration every now and then, to maintain it's accuracy. With pH pens, you need to test the water sample from the tank after it has been kept in a container for a few hours to get an accurate reading. To the lower the GH you can do a slight water change, and use distilled water if available. I would advise you to get other test kits like the one from Sera or API to get a second reading, before you do this.
> ...


Thanks Stormhawk. You have been most helpful. For pH, I do use the drip test kit from API. However, I think for the Sulawesi tank, I will need to buy one that can measure higher pH since the drip test kit I have is more to test acidity, only up to 7.5. 

Are those probe meters very expensive? Maybe I should post a WTB in the market place. How do we calibrate the pen? 

Also, I have placed a few Coral pieces in the Sulawesi tank and a bit of coral chips in the filter. So far, I only manage to sight one shrimp. The other should be hiding amongst the rocks. Will monitor the pH of the water daily for now and see if I need to do any adjustments. 

The tank looks absolutely empty and lack of life. So tempted to get fishes already!!! But I know I need to wait it out.  :Mad:

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## stormhawk

For a Sulawesi tank, you might have to consider test kits meant for high pH ranges, for example those meant for marine tanks. I was at a marine LFS during Valentine's Day and had a short talk with the shop owner, who is very helpful. He recommended using a marine test kit, specifically Seachem's Multi-Test for Marine pH and alkalinity, for a hard water tank, especially since the pH values recommended for these shrimps is above 7.5.

Some pH meters that come with submersible probes will cost a fair bit though they are good for constant monitoring. Handheld test pens are calibrated with the use of a reference fluid, which is basically sold as calibration liquid for specific test pens. These pens are good but have a lifespan after which they must be replaced.

Liquid pH test kits that use an indicator fluid, are fairly accurate. I think most contain phenolphthalein, which is what we used in secondary school for chemistry when it came to measuring the pH of a liquid sample.

If you lose the shrimps for one reason or another, take this as a learning experience. At least right now while you're monitoring and concurrently cycling the tank, if it hasn't been done, you can tweak it so that eventually, it will be ready for the shrimps. I've been trying to find a marine salt mix, which would have the composition of materials that would be close, if not exactly like that of Lake Matano.

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## PupiPupi

> For a Sulawesi tank, you might have to consider test kits meant for high pH ranges, for example those meant for marine tanks. I was at a marine LFS during Valentine's Day and had a short talk with the shop owner, who is very helpful. He recommended using a marine test kit, specifically Seachem's Multi-Test for Marine pH and alkalinity, for a hard water tank, especially since the pH values recommended for these shrimps is above 7.5.
> 
> Some pH meters that come with submersible probes will cost a fair bit though they are good for constant monitoring. Handheld test pens are calibrated with the use of a reference fluid, which is basically sold as calibration liquid for specific test pens. These pens are good but have a lifespan after which they must be replaced.
> 
> Liquid pH test kits that use an indicator fluid, are fairly accurate. I think most contain phenolphthalein, which is what we used in secondary school for chemistry when it came to measuring the pH of a liquid sample.
> 
> If you lose the shrimps for one reason or another, take this as a learning experience. At least right now while you're monitoring and concurrently cycling the tank, if it hasn't been done, you can tweak it so that eventually, it will be ready for the shrimps. I've been trying to find a marine salt mix, which would have the composition of materials that would be close, if not exactly like that of Lake Matano.


Hi Stormhawk. Yes I already bought the dropper test kit for higher pH levels. I got the API one which came with 2 colour charts. One for freshwater and one for marine.

I was at Seaview yesterday so I just asked how much a pH pen costs. They recommended the Pet Fran brand? After discount it's about $60. And yes I saw the calibration solution too. 

I have been adjusting the coral chips amount to get the right pH. It's quite frustrating really. One minute it's an 8.4, the next day it's 7.4. I'll just take it one day at a time and hope for the best. 

Are you interested in rearing them too? I read a thread here about these critters. Seems like they were a hit when they first came in 2008.

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## stormhawk

I have an interest in them, but until I take the plunge, I'm researching beforehand. Don't wish to make a mistake, because these shrimps aren't cheap to begin with.

It's more of trial and error when it comes to using coral chips. Saw this Benibachi Golden Soil pH 7.2 at GC, so I might use that in conjunction with coral chips, to see if the pH can go up to 8 or so.

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## PupiPupi

I admire your patience... Anyways, I met another bro from here yesterday who is a shrimp man and has experience with sulas. You might wanna have a chat with bro Matt. He sold me some sula plants. And he mentioned a mass order for sulas coming up.

Anyways, my darling Shrimps are now in their new tank with pH 7.6. Here are some pics to share...

The tank:


The residents:




Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## sateman

> I admire your patience... Anyways, I met another bro from here yesterday who is a shrimp man and has experience with sulas. You might wanna have a chat with bro Matt. He sold me some sula plants. And he mentioned a mass order for sulas coming up.
> 
> Anyways, my darling Shrimps are now in their new tank with pH 7.6. Here are some pics to share...


hah!..I see you got the sulawesi fern from...let me guess..Matt? hehe
I'm getting some myself.....how many stalks are in your setup?

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## PupiPupi

> hah!..I see you got the sulawesi fern from...let me guess..Matt? hehe
> I'm getting some myself.....how many stalks are in your setup?


Hi Sate. Yup... From Matt. Thats 3 stalks. 2 in the back and one in front. 

Tapatalking with my Galaxy S2

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## stormhawk

That's Ottelia mesenterium. Not much info on how to keep these plants though. This thread on another forum was an interesting read:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...te-4-21-a.html

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## RonWill

> This thread on another forum...


 JianYang, thanks for the link. While I wasn't looking to set up a sulawesi tank, yet, I like the river-current styled setup. I'll bet that this design will work great for a full _Corydoras_ tank!!! I'm just very apprehensive about drilling holes into glass tanks!!

BTW, in case you folks are overly engrossed in the discussions (it happens) and overlooked that we've gone way off topic (nothing to do with _Pseudomugils_ already), may I suggest kicking off another sula thread to make searching easier and reading, relevant.

I'll be looking forward to seeing your new tank with golden soil. If it doesn't need a PhD to get it running swell, I *might* have an itch to scratch!!  :Grin:

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## stormhawk

Lucky me, the big driftwood from GC fits... nicely.  :Razz: 

Pics of my own Sulawesi tank attempt to come shortly, in a separate thread.

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## charcaradon megaldon

> JianYang, thanks for the link. While I wasn't looking to set up a sulawesi tank, yet, I like the river-current styled setup. I'll bet that this design will work great for a full _Corydoras_ tank!!! I'm just very apprehensive about drilling holes into glass tanks!!
> 
> BTW, in case you folks are overly engrossed in the discussions (it happens) and overlooked that we've gone way off topic (nothing to do with _Pseudomugils_ already), may I suggest kicking off another sula thread to make searching easier and reading, relevant.
> 
> I'll be looking forward to seeing your new tank with golden soil. If it doesn't need a PhD to get it running swell, I *might* have an itch to scratch!!


I concur.....how did this thread got hi-jacked to a Sulawesi shrimp thread? PupPupi...... :Wink:  j/k....haha..how are your cardinals doing? Ｔhey look great...and the tank set up looking pretty awesome as well...now I really have an itch to scratch. 

Stormhawk, saw your sula set up on another thread. I've never thought of using lava rock as a substrate for a high PH environment. Wish I had your wisdom when I was keeping my Tanganyika. My saving grace back then was the local water was pretty hard already hence there was not much I had to do to boost the PH. But that gave me nightmares when I was keeping discus. 

Ronnie, you have more staying power to resist temptation than I do...as soon as I saw the pics of Sulawesi shrimps, I knew it was game over for me.. I've got to try my hands on it. 

I am looking forward to learn from all of you re: Sulawesi tanks and how to set it up....now, only if I can find more time...haha... :Razz:

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## stormhawk

Lava rocks to me, form another layer of bio filtration in a tank. The fissures in the rocks are great for having bacteria cultures so they aid in the overall health of the tank. Think of these rocks as the equivalent of live rock in marine tanks, once mature. Besides, they look great once green or brown algae grow on them.

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## Emokidz

Exams have ended and I've finally got some time to take some pictures of these guys too. Really pretty.








Their set up:

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## Shi Xuan

You should dump in a spawning mop soon, I'm sure they will lay eggs in no time. :Smile:

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## Emokidz

Haha. I have to go get some yarn and make one. I don't see any eggs on the java moss though. The females keep running from the male.

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## Shi Xuan

I believe there should be some eggs among the Java moss but it's left unnoticed. Chances are, if the adults are well fed, the eggs should be there or else it's likely they are eaten. :Smile:

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## Emokidz

I hope so! Haha. Would be really nice to have more of them to add to my planted tank in the long-run since it's too costly to buy them in bulk.  :Sad:

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## aero

Any idea on getting them coloured up?

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## aza

> Any idea on getting them coloured up?


Stock 1 male to 1 female minimum ratio, increase female up to three if need be. Ensure they have ample space to wiggle about, give them plants to hide under etc.

I feed normal Hikari fish food and they colour up fine.

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