# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Which LFS still selling live daphnia aka boon??

## Bern C

Hi guys,
anyone know any LFS in central area still selling boon? I checked out 3 LFS in TPY but none selling. I got this information from arofanatics forum, last update 2012. Can help me to confirm if these LFS still selling? blk 51 TPY not selling anymore. For Sim drive, I not sure which LFS the person refering to as I only saw one LFS that specialize in ADA stuffs. Thank You~

West
1. Blk 306 Beside CCK Interchange, Hong Yang Aquarium (boon)
2. Blk 217A Jurong East St 21, Eight Star Aquarium (boon)
3. Clementi Blk 328 (bbs)
5. Ah Hock, 96 Sungei Tengah Rd
6. Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
1. OTF at Pasir Ris Farmway (boon)
2. 822 Fishing and Tackles Shop, Tampines St 82, Block 822
3. Sims Drive - (Boon) (The blk next to the market) *Very clean boon*
3. Sincere @ 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
4. Blk 85 Bedok Market (Boon)
5. Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07
6. Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) 

North
1. Aquastar @ Yishun Blk 934 (boon)
2. That Aquarium @ Yishun Blk 618 (boon)
3. GoNature Blk 932 (boon)
4. Fu Hae Aquarium, Serangoon North Ave 2
5. Lam Hong Aquarium, Ang Mo Kio Ave 4 (dunno what block, beside the hawker centre)
6. Petmart, Blk 151 Serangoon North Ave 2 (instant bbs & bbs)
7. Biotope Aquarium at Blk 167 Woodlands St 11 #02-19 (bbs)
8. Hougang Ave 8 Blk 684 (boon)
9. Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon)*only week ends
10. Seletar farmway, 8 Kim Hai
11.Pets Boutique : Block 117, AMK Central #01-3501F (Boon)
*(Call before u go to check they have stock.)*

Central
1. TPY Blk 51 - (Boon) (After 2pm) <not selling anymore>

South
1. Wu Hu Aquarium -71 Seng Poh Rd (pre-order)

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## Urban Aquaria

I can confirm Hong Yang at CCK still have ready supply of daphnia moina (aka "boon"), recently got a batch from them to replenish my moina culture.

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## Bern C

Thanks Urban Aquaria. XD Trying to look for boon near my area so don't have to keep travel. 
Went to seaview few days ago to buy some stuffs then also asked about boon. Boss asked me come on sat morning as it's kinda hot-selling.

West
-Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
-96 Sungei Tengah Rd (boon)
-Ah Hock Aquarium (boon)
-Polyart, Blk 328 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-194 (bbs)
-Eight Star Aquarium, Blk 217A Jurong East St 21 (boon)
-Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
-OTF Aquarium, Pasir Ris Farmway (boon) <most likely>
-Sincere, 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
-822 Aquarium & Fishing Tackles, Blk 822 Tampines Street 81
-Blk 85 Bedok North Market (Boon)
-Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07 (boon) 
-Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) <last info nov2014>
-Sims Drive, (The blk next to the market) *Very clean boon*

North
-That Aquarium, Blk 618 Yishun Ring Road (boon) <most likely>
-Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon)*only week ends <confirmed>
-Kim Hai Orchid farm, 78 Seletar West Farmway 8 (boon)
-Fwu Hae Pet Shop, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2
-Petmart, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2 (instant bbs & bbs)
-Natural View Aquarium, Blk 684 Hougang Avenue 8 (boon)
-Pets Boutique, Blk 711 Ang Mo Kio Ave 8 #01-3501F (Boon)

Central

South
-Wu Hu Aquarium, 71 Seng Poh Rd (pre-order) <last info nov 2014>

Closed down:
Aquastar, Yishun Blk 934
Lam Hong Aquarium, Ang Mo Kio Ave 4
GoNature
Biotope Aquarium, Blk 167 Woodlands St 11 #02-19 (bbs)

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## SwordZ

For Y618 (that aq) they still sell but you've got to make a call to confirm before you head down XD

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## Bern C

Thanks SwordZ for your info. XD btw where's the forum edit button? I can't find it.

West
-Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
-96 Sungei Tengah Rd (boon)
-Ah Hock Aquarium (boon)
-Polyart, Blk 328 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-194 (bbs)
-Eight Star Aquarium, Blk 217A Jurong East St 21 (boon)
-Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
-OTF Aquarium, Pasir Ris Farmway (boon) <confirmed>
-Sincere, 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
-822 Aquarium & Fishing Tackles, Blk 822 Tampines Street 81
-Blk 85 Bedok North Market (Boon)
-Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07 (boon)
-Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) <last info nov2014>
-Sims Drive, (The blk next to the market) *Very clean boon*

North
-That Aquarium, Blk 618 Yishun Ring Road Phone: 6758 5488 (boon) *call before going <confirmed>
-Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon) *only week ends <confirmed>
-Kim Hai Orchid farm, 78 Seletar West Farmway 8 (boon)
-Fwu Hae Pet Shop, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2
-Petmart, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2 (instant bbs & bbs)
-Natural View Aquarium, Blk 684 Hougang Avenue 8 (boon)
-Pets Boutique, Blk 711 Ang Mo Kio Ave 8 #01-3501F (Boon)

Central

South
-Wu Hu Aquarium, 71 Seng Poh Rd (pre-order) <last info nov 2014>


Went to OTF aquarium today. Asked about the auntie about the boon supply. The auntie said that every day will have unless rainy day. I got myself a pack of boon @ $1 and some rosbara merah which I thought it's mosquito rosbara. At first I was shock at the price, $1.50 as seaview selling mosquito rosbara 60cents each. But later when I reached home I realize it's slightly different from my loner, mosquito rosbara but my loner mix with R. merah well. They do sell shrimp individually. Red rili @ $4.50, yellow shrimp @ $6, fire red @ $3, sakura, CRS, not sure is blue bee or tiger. They sell a variety of guppies too. There're few tanks with plants that are very health and clean.

As I'm on the way home, I passed by an aquarium farm that caught my eyes. So I decided to go in and take a look. It's a very old aquarium, Hiap Khoon aquarium trading, man by 2 uncles in their golden age. They have a variety of fishes at an attractive price. There's a small section of aquarium equipments but I didn't go and take a look. Interesting place to visit if you are near pasir ris farm way 2. XD You can get can drinks @ $1 too.

IMG_4266.JPGIMG_4265.JPG

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## Urban Aquaria

> Asked about the auntie about the boon supply. The auntie said that every day will have unless rainy day.


Yeah, i also get that response when i ask some of the LFS about their live food supply schedules, they always mention "will have unless rainy day"... i keep wondering why the weather dictates those live food deliveries, is it because the suppliers can't harvest their outdoor ponds when its raining? or they ride bicycle to deliver the stocks so its a traveling hazard? Quite puzzling.  :Think:

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## Bern C

I am thinking it might due to unable to harvest too... XD Maybe rainy day the boon hide at the bottom of the pond scared got washed away?

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## tetrakid

> I am thinking it might due to unable to harvest too... XD Maybe rainy day the boon hide at the bottom of the pond scared got washed away?


I think selling boons is not profitable unless people are willing to pay a high premium price for it. 
It is not easy to cultivate boons because the culture can die easily due to their extreme sensitivity
to water conditions.

But if someone skilful enough can manage to to keep a large culture going, he/she can make a living
by setting up a scheduled regular delivery service by bicyle to a few neighborhoods.

Many fish keepers love to feed boons to their precious darling fishes. And fishes also go crazy over boons.

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## Bern C

Yeah... I agree, I think need a large tank or pond to cultivate them in order to be cost effective. 
Almost 1/2 of my boon died on the 3rd day. I think my 1g container are too small for them. I heard boon(moina) is easier to culture compare to daphnia. After they crush, they will auto reset after days or week under the right water parameter?

Btw any LFS selling daphnia pulex or magna?

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## tetrakid

> Yeah... I agree, I think need a large tank or pond to cultivate them in order to be cost effective. 
> Almost 1/2 of my boon died on the 3rd day. I think my 1g container are too small for them. I heard boon(moina) is easier to culture compare to daphnia. After they crush, they will auto reset after days or week under the right water parameter?na
> 
> Btw any LFS selling daphnia pulex or magna?


It appear that only the tiny moinas can survive here, not bigger daphnia or magna. In the olden days, it's easy to find bigger daphnia when many ponds exist in undeveloped areas. 
I remember as a small child, I used to net them in thick red lumps in the net. In those days, I used to feed a lot of guppies with those red daphnia.

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## Bern C

=( Moina is just nice for my Mosquito rasbora but too small for my guppy. I didn't know moina is around the same size as cyclops. XD My guppies do eat moina but I feel like it's not convenience for them. XD I want red daphina!!
Is it possible to be able to find them in those forested areas? or Pulau Ubin? XD 

Bukit brown got a nice slow flowing steam dunno have or not. XD
IMG_4134.JPG

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## tetrakid

> =( Moina is just nice for my Mosquito rasbora but too small for my guppy. I didn't know moina is around the same size as cyclops. XD My guppies do eat moina but I feel like it's not convenience for them. XD I want red daphina!!
> Is it possible to be able to find them in those forested areas? or Pulau Ubin? XD 
> 
> Bukit brown got a nice slow flowing steam dunno have or not. XD


It may be possible to find the, at Pulau Ubin, Malaysia, Thailand etc. maybe you can try asking some residents there.
Moina is not suitable for adult fish. Daphnia Magna (Big Bad Boons) are very good.

Daphnia are not found in streams, only at ponds.

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## Urban Aquaria

Daphnia moina is most commonly sold locally and used in local aquaculture because they can tolerate high population densities and can live and breed in a wider range of parameters and higher temperatures, way more adaptable than the other daphnia species... though they are not invincible and will still die off in adverse conditions.

You can usually only find daphnia in ponds whereby there are no small fishes (ie. like the isolated ponds and large culture tubs at farms), otherwise those small fishes would have wiped out most of the daphnia population already.  :Grin: 




> Yeah... I agree, I think need a large tank or pond to cultivate them in order to be cost effective. 
> Almost 1/2 of my boon died on the 3rd day. I think my 1g container are too small for them. I heard boon(moina) is easier to culture compare to daphnia. After they crush, they will auto reset after days or week under the right water parameter?


I agree, the best method to maintain a good sized daphnia culture would be a large tub or small pond, seeded with lots of decomposing organic matter to generate ample bacteria and green water as micro-foods, just dedicated to breeding the moina. As always, its all about the stocking ratio of livestock vs water volume. Larger water volume can sustain more livestock with less care.

Keeping them in small containers can hold them temporarily for a short while but eventually most of them will die due to severe overcrowding, rapid oxygen depletion, toxic parameters going through the roof and lack of suitable suspended food for them to feed on to survive. They also have super short lifespans (i read somewhere its only around 12 days), so if you see the population decreasing it could also just be due to the old ones dying and not enough new ones being born to replace them.

So far the best i can do is keep a small culture going for around a month in a cycled 10 liter tank with gentle sponge filter and regular controlled feedings (yeast + spirulina mix) and regular harvesting (50% of the moina every few days, have to do that or else they overpopulate and crash). I estimate the amount of moina that live in that tank environment is only around a teaspoon worth (probably just 10% the amount in those $1 bags of moina), so its not alot, just enough to feed as occasional weekly snacks to the fishes.

Btw, when a culture crashes completely (as in no moina left at all), they can only recover if the moina laid resting eggs beforehand, otherwise they wouldn't hatch and re-populate. And it'll take a while to build up the population again from the eggs. I guess it'll be easier to just buy more daphnia from the LFS to replenish the culture anyways.  :Very Happy:

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## Bern C

Thanks tetrakid and urban aquaria for the information. XD will check out the ponds that I chance upon. Will find one day go for daphnia hunting then update you guys if found it.

@Urban Aquaria

Yeah... a lot of my daphnia died. @[email protected] I placed some in a jar, most into the 1g container and left some in the bag. 
So far the one in the bag with the original water has the lowest fatality rate, 5%. I feed the bag one with shrimp food and it seem to work. Still monitoring.
Then the jar I feeding them with hay infusion which i made very long ago, months back. XD It's actually made as a mosquito bait so I can't remember if I added in BTI, a bacterial that used to kill mosquito larvae. But I think by now all the bacterial and infusoria should be dead as I left it in a sealed container without exposing to light. I wanna make a new infusion but can't find my hay.
The daphnia in the 1g container are fed with yeast and green water from TPY garden pond. Still cultivating the green water. XD I was thinking of trying out the water used to wash the rice. Also soy powder. XD Trying things that I can easily access.
Hahaha... Still trying out all kinds of stuff. Not sure if I am crude to them. @[email protected]

Thanks a lot for your valuable information. I will get a bigger tank but I don't think I will add a filter due power supply constraint. I added hornwort into the tank for generating oxygen and also absorb ammonia. But I not sure if the hornwort will absorb too much of the nutrients. Do you think I should remove them? Also how often do you remove the dead daphnia and do WC?

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## Urban Aquaria

> The daphnia in the 1g container are fed with yeast and green water from TPY garden pond. Still cultivating the green water. XD I was thinking of trying out the water used to wash the rice. Also soy powder. XD Trying things that I can easily access.
> Hahaha... Still trying out all kinds of stuff. Not sure if I am crude to them. @[email protected]


Yeah, just have to be careful when feeding yeast and green water, you have to make sure its not too much that the yeast fouls the water (or the green water uses up all the oxygen), so its a matter of trial and error. I usually feed just enough to very lightly cloud or tint the water, once the water clears, then i feed abit more. Smaller more frequent feedings is better than large infrequent feedings.




> I will get a bigger tank but I don't think I will add a filter due power supply constraint. I added hornwort into the tank for generating oxygen and also absorb ammonia. But I not sure if the hornwort will absorb too much of the nutrients. Do you think I should remove them? Also how often do you remove the dead daphnia and do WC?


Having plants in the tank can help, though you'll also need to provide them sufficient light to photosynthesize and take up nutrients effectively too.

For maintenance, i basically use a fine net to scoop out most of the molted shells and dead moina from the bottom of the tank every week during water change (or when i see it accumulating). Water change is simply done with a measuring cup, i scoop out the tank water and pour it though a brine shrimp net, get the collected moina and feed them to my other tanks, discard the old water and then re-fill the culture tank with fresh de-chlorinated water.

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## Bern C

> Yeah, just have to be careful when feeding yeast and green water, you have to make sure its not too much that the yeast fouls the water (or the green water uses up all the oxygen), so its a matter of trial and error. I usually feed just enough to very lightly cloud or tint the water, once the water clears, then i feed abit more. Smaller more frequent feedings is better than large infrequent feedings.
> 
> 
> 
> Having plants in the tank can help, though you'll also need to provide them sufficient light to photosynthesize and take up nutrients effectively too.
> 
> For maintenance, i basically use a fine net to scoop out most of the molted shells and dead moina from the bottom of the tank every week during water change (or when i see it accumulating). Water change is simply done with a measuring cup, i scoop out the tank water and pour it though a brine shrimp net, get the collected moina and feed them to my other tanks, discard the old water and then re-fill the culture tank with fresh de-chlorinated water.


 :Shocked:  I think I overfed during my 1st feeding till the water became milky. The daphnia like having little problem swimming. This time round will feed them bit by bit. 

Oh.... Okz. I will try do water change this weekend.

Million thanks for your tips  :Smile:

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## tetrakid

If I live in the USA, I will definitely have a big daphnia culture tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihN9416GVQU

If you want to succeed in Daphnia culturing, you must treat the Daphnia as your pet fish so you will pay full attention and care to them.

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## Bern C

WOW..... I want a tank like that too XD The magna look cute... like a fat bird with small little wings. Can keep as pet. XD Will treat them as my pet now. 
I am thinking of getting pulex since they can tolerate higher temperature than magna.

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## tetrakid

> WOW..... I want a tank like that too XD The magna look cute... like a fat bird with small little wings. Can keep as pet. XD Will treat them as my pet now. 
> I am thinking of getting pulex since they can tolerate higher temperature than magna.


Actually, it is possible you can keep Daphnia Magna (Big Bad Boons) as pets here. Just set up a chiller tank like countless shrimp lovers. The boons will make wonderful pets. In fact, many young people have been keeping brine shrimps (Sea Monkeys) as pets for close to a century, lol.  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> Actually, it is possible you can keep Daphnia Magna (Big Bad Boons) as pets here. Just set up a chiller tank like countless shrimp lovers. The boons will make wonderful pets. In fact, many young people have been keeping brine shrimps (Sea Monkeys) as pets for close to a century, lol.


Yeah.. Last time I used to have Sea Monkeys as pet. XD For Magna in chiller tank will be too costly for me. The electricity bill @[email protected] Maybe can try 1 bottle in the fridge. =X

Currently I using algae wafers to feed Daphnia and find it not bad. I leave an algae wafer in a cup of water for 10-15min. Then mash and stir it. Filter the algae wafer through a brine shrimp net. Instant green water. XD
I just found my hay... I going to try hay infusion next. I also found some interesting source that stating hay is a stable method. Have you try this before? 
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...e-feeding.html

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## Ingen

Would spirulina powder work as feed? Need to get my hands on some live boon to try feed my tiger goby, they are refusing to eat frozen brine shrimps and daphnia.

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## tetrakid

> Yeah.. Last time I used to have Sea Monkeys as pet. XD For Magna in chiller tank will be too costly for me. The electricity bill @[email protected] Maybe can try 1 bottle in the fridge. =X
> 
> Currently I using algae wafers to feed Daphnia and find it not bad. I leave an algae wafer in a cup of water for 10-15min. Then mash and stir it. Filter the algae wafer through a brine shrimp net. Instant green water. XD
> I just found my hay... I going to try hay infusion next. I also found some interesting source that stating hay is a stable method. Have you try this before? 
> http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...e-feeding.html


Are you keeping Moina or Daphnia?

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## Bern C

> Are you keeping Moina or Daphnia?


Moina.

Hahaha.. I am trying to cultivate pulex from frozen pulex cube but only see some cyclops. Some said they successfully cultivate from frozen daphnia cubes. Now only day 3, I will wait few more days and see how is it.





> Would spirulina powder work as feed? Need to get my hands on some live boon to try feed my tiger goby, they are refusing to eat frozen brine shrimps and daphnia.


Yup... It do works. UA feeding moina with spirulina powder and yeast.

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## tetrakid

> Yeah.. Last time I used to have Sea Monkeys as pet. XD For Magna in chiller tank will be too costly for me. The electricity bill @[email protected] Maybe can try 1 bottle in the fridge. =X
> 
> Currently I using algae wafers to feed Daphnia and find it not bad. I leave an algae wafer in a cup of water for 10-15min. Then mash and stir it. Filter the algae wafer through a brine shrimp net. Instant green water. XD
> I just found my hay... I going to try hay infusion next. I also found some interesting source that stating hay is a stable method. Have you try this before? 
> http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...e-feeding.html


Are you keeping Moina or Daphnia?

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## tetrakid

Oops duplicate post, sorry.  :Angel: 

Any picture of your culture?

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## Bern C

> Oops duplicate post, sorry. 
> 
> Any picture of your culture?


XD Sorry for the poor image cos using hp camera.
IMG_4278.jpg

I left a pouch of potting soil in the tank too.

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## tetrakid

Lol, Moinas are so small and plain it's hard to see them. Really miss those giant red and fat juicy "big bad boons".  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> Would spirulina powder work as feed? Need to get my hands on some live boon to try feed my tiger goby, they are refusing to eat frozen brine shrimps and daphnia.


Spirulina powder (pre-dissolved in water, only feed the solution, not the undissolved chunks) can be used to feed daphnia moina, but its more to increase their nutritional value as live feed (aka gut loading)... you have to make sure not to feed too much of the spirulina powder as it is a food that is not alive, which can decompose and quickly foul the water if not consumed in time (unlike the fungus from activated yeast or phytoplankton from live green water, both are living things that can live in the water until consumed).

I usually only put a very tiny bit of spirulina power into my yeast feed mix... something like only 10% of the mix, just enough to tint the mix slightly light green.

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## tetrakid

> Spirulina powder (pre-dissolved in water, only feed the solution, not the undissolved chunks) can be used to feed dap.hnia moina, but its more to increase their nutritional value as live feed (aka gut loading)... you have to make sure not to feed too much of the spirulina powder as it is a food that is not alive, which can decompose and quickly foul the water if not consumed in time (unlike the fungus from activated yeast or phytoplankton from live green water, both are living things that can live in the water until consumed).
> 
> I usually only put a very tiny bit of spirulina power into my yeast feed mix... something like only 10% of the mix, just enough to tint the mix slightly light green.


When I look at those Moina I already feel sian, so small that even guppies won't enjoy much eating them. But still okay for baby fish fries lah. 

In those days when my old uncle kept a lot of fish in the backyard, the boons at that time were solid and juicy red, and they could be freely netted from ponds nearby.

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## Bern C

> Lol, Moinas are so small and plain it's hard to see them. Really miss those giant red and fat juicy "big bad boons".


Yeah... I want daphnia too!!! Hope I can cultivate some pulex from frozen cube but I think chances are 0.00001% @[email protected]

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## tetrakid

> Yeah... I want daphnia too!!! Hope I can cultivate some pulex from frozen cube but I think chances are 0.00001% @[email protected]


Ya, very hard to do. If it's easy to culture, many people would be doing it by now because big juicy boons are in great demand by fish keepers.

But actually if the price of boon is increased high-high, then maybe it can be cultivated in airconed rooms. Actually, with science nothing is impossible. Of course the boons must be really good, if not who will buy at a premium price right? If can succeed in cultivation, good fat juicy boons is sure to be a hit.

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## Bern C

> Ya, very hard to do. If it's easy to culture, many people would be doing it by now because big juicy boons are in great demand by fish keepers.
> 
> But actually if the price of boon is increased high-high, then maybe it can be cultivated in airconed rooms. Actually, with science nothing is impossible. Of course the boons must be really good, if not who will buy at a premium price right? If can succeed in cultivation, good fat juicy boons is sure to be a hit.


Yeah... Agree. XD I just hope that someone found the source of big boon in Singapore and cultivate it. Hope it's not extinct in Singapore.

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## tetrakid

To start a Magna culture, you can also order some batches of huge boon eggs from the US and hatch them, provided you have the correct ambient environment and facilities set up.
For sure it will not be an economical undertaking, as failures along the way are bound to occur. You will need to treat it as an R&D expense, or at worst a rich man's experiment. But if you succeed, at least you will be able to monopolise the market with your secret techniques.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Yeah... Agree. XD I just hope that someone found the source of big boon in Singapore and cultivate it. Hope it's not extinct in Singapore.


I've read about people ordering live starter cultures of pulex and magna from overseas, but keeping and breeding them efficiently seems to be tough and not cost effective locally, which probably explains why they are not as popular in local aquaculture.

I guess to generate similar sized live food, its probably easier just to keep and mass breed common low-grade cherry shrimps instead.. cull a percentage of the shrimplets to use as the live feed for fishes. I used to do that when keeping apistos and rams.  :Grin:

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## Bern C

> To start a Magna culture, you can also order some batches of huge boon eggs from the US and hatch them, provided you have the correct ambient environment and facilities set up.
> For sure it will not be an economical undertaking, as failures along the way are bound to occur. You will need to treat it as an R&D expense, or at worst a rich man's experiment. But if you succeed, at least you will be able to monopolise the market with your secret techniques.


I was thinking of trying pulex as I read that it can adapt higher temperature but the fertility rate will be lower. Then I saw this pulex eggs from Caraolina.com and almost going to order it. XD Lucky I read the review before I press confirm. There are reviews complaining there are no daphnia but others crustaceans. I can't find any site selling daphnia eggs.  :Sad:  XD Never thought of that... I was thinking of culturing cheap, clean and nutritious food for my fishy.





> I've read about people ordering live starter cultures of pulex and magna from overseas, but keeping and breeding them efficiently seems to be tough and not cost effective locally, which probably explains why they are not as popular in local aquaculture.
> 
> I guess to generate similar sized live food, its probably easier just to keep and mass breed common low-grade cherry shrimps instead.. cull a percentage of the shrimplets to use as the live feed for fishes. I used to do that when keeping apistos and rams.


XD Yeah... cherry shrimp very fast with the right parameter. But... to me like feed my pet to the other pet. @[email protected] 
Anybody succeeded?? @[email protected] I am thinking of getting live culture online but not sure if they can survive the 1 week shipping.

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## Urban Aquaria

> XD Yeah... cherry shrimp very fast with the right parameter. But... to me like feed my pet to the other pet. @[email protected] 
> Anybody succeeded?


If you happen to maintain larger populations of low-grade cherry shrimps which breed constantly (ie. >200+ per tank), then the reproduction rate is usually high enough to cull shrimps regularly to feed a few fishes. I have alot of them as clean up crew in my plant grow-out tanks, so there are sufficient shrimp populations to cull from.

Though if you keep higher-grade ones like fire reds or CRS... then its a real waste to feed the fishes those nicer shrimps, they have much more value as ornamental livestock.  :Very Happy:

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## Bern C

> If you happen to maintain larger populations of low-grade cherry shrimps which breed constantly (ie. >200+ per tank), then the reproduction rate is usually high enough to cull shrimps regularly to feed a few fishes. I have alot of them as clean up crew in my plant grow-out tanks, so there are sufficient shrimp populations to cull from.
> 
> Though if you keep higher-grade ones like fire reds or CRS... then its a real waste to feed the fishes those nicer shrimps, they have much more value as ornamental livestock.


Currently I'm having 100 cherry shrimps but dunno what to do with them. XD Almost all of them are low grade but I don't bear to feed the shrimplets to fish.  :Confused:  Also I don't cull them as I just started this shrimp hobby.

XD It all started with me setting up an ecosphere then I picked up this hobby on last year dec. I was thinking maybe I should try shrimp in ecosphere. I bought a bag of 20 cherries, actually I don't want that many but the LFS sell in a bag. So I placed 5 each in my 2 ecosphere then the rest in acrylic tank. After 1 week+ there were 3 casualties and like kinda poor thing living in a jar so I planned to set up a Walstad tank for them. Everything seem fine and water parameter within the range but I still face a casualties every few days or week till my population dropped from 17 to 11. Not sure why. =( Then I was thinking of partially reset up the tank. I added some aragonite substrate and replaced some potting mix. I also bought a bag of 10 fire red shrimps but T.T all died as I was busy and forget that I left them in the pail overnight. There are some babies and 2 berried shrimp in the bag. I was lucky that the berried actually gave birth before it died. I managed to save 20+ babies. With the new set up, I still face casualties(all from the 1st batch) like every 1-3 weeks till I left with 2 first batch of shrimp. This time they reproduced and didn't drop their eggs. I get more and more shrimps like 40++ babies so I get a 10g tank with aquasoil as substrate.
Then 1 month ago, I notice my shrimp no longer reproducing for a while. 2 weeks ago I tested the water with liquid test kit instead of the test strip which I usually use. I realized my strip not accurate at all, might be due to defect. XD I was having very low GH and KH which I was thinking there might be mineral deficiency. So I added minerals to bring my GH to 6 and KH to 3.  :Laughing:  Then last week I saw 2 berried shrimps and more with saddle.

My question is does shrimp get nutrition from water more than food?? Or is it the condition of the water? Cos my cherries seem normal and happy feeding with low GH and KH but don't reproduce. Then my Amano doesn't seem normal as I seldom see them until I added minerals. At 1st I thought I left with 3 Amano and 2 died but recently I saw 4 of them feeding together.
I have no idea why most of my shrimp are orange instead of red. @[email protected] I only have a full dull red old shrimp from my 1st batch of cherries. XD The old shrimp seem to upgraded itself from low grade to higher grade.

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## Urban Aquaria

> My question is does shrimp get nutrition from water more than food?? Or is it the condition of the water? Cos my cherries seem normal and happy feeding with low GH and KH but don't reproduce. Then my Amano doesn't seem normal as I seldom see them until I added minerals. At 1st I thought I left with 3 Amano and 2 died but recently I saw 4 of them feeding together.


They get nutrition and vitamins from both food and the water column... minerals and vitamins dissolved in the water column filter through their gills and they can adsorb the nutrients from there too.

Shrimps can survive in lower GH conditions that have less minerals and vitamins, but they automatically reduce breeding due to lack of sufficient nutrients. Their priority will switch to survival, and reproduction becomes suppressed (its like humans, we can see in history during times of scarce food and low nutrition, people may still stay alive but fertility rates will tend decrease drastically). 

So the addition of minerals and vitamins definitely do help to increase shrimp breeding very significantly. I put mineral rocks (ie. BorneoWild Minerocks) in all my tanks and that takes care of the additional mineral and vitamin support for the shrimps, easier than constantly dosing supplements. Just a chunk of mineral rock in a tank can slowly release beneficial minerals and vitamins for years.




> I have no idea why most of my shrimp are orange instead of red. @[email protected] I only have a full dull red old shrimp from my 1st batch of cherries. XD The old shrimp seem to upgraded itself from low grade to higher grade.


Thats the reason you need to cull the shrimps regularly, its to ensure the reddest offspring continue to maintain and improve their coloration... fire red and painted red shrimps are just the best grade of cherry shrimps, they are all still the same species and their offspring will still contain shrimps with less color (though higher grade fire reds do tend to produce a higher percentage of fire red offspring), its all a matter of line breeding them and constantly culling the less desirable colors.

If you don't cull regularly and just allow lower-grade cherry shrimp offspring to grow up and continue breeding with the higher grade fire reds, the subsequent offspring colors will gradually degrade over time. Its very important to remove those male cherry shrimps that are almost transparent color, do not allow those to breed with your female fire reds. Only hand-pick and keep the male cherry shrimps that have the strongest solid red colors. You don't need alot of male cherry shrimps anyways, just a few of the best fire red males will be able to mate with all the fire red females.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I only have a full dull red old shrimp from my 1st batch of cherries. XD The old shrimp seem to upgraded itself from low grade to higher grade.


Yeah, if a shrimp has good "fire red" genes, their color will naturally improve as they grow older too... looks like that shrimp was also the strongest survivor of the initial batch you added.  :Well done:

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## Bern C

> They get nutrition and vitamins from both food and the water column... minerals and vitamins dissolved in the water column filter through their gills and they can adsorb the nutrients from there too.
> 
> Shrimps can survive in lower GH conditions that have less minerals and vitamins, but they automatically reduce breeding due to lack of sufficient nutrients. Their priority will switch to survival, and reproduction becomes suppressed (its like humans, we can see in history during times of scarce food and low nutrition, people may still stay alive but fertility rates will tend decrease drastically). 
> 
> So the addition of minerals and vitamins definitely do help to increase shrimp breeding very significantly. I put mineral rocks (ie. BorneoWild Minerocks) in all my tanks and that takes care of the additional mineral and vitamin support for the shrimps, easier than constantly dosing supplements. Just a chunk of mineral rock in a tank can slowly release beneficial minerals and vitamins for years.


Oh... XD I didn't expect there's a such a huge different. I didn't expect it will affect their reproduction drastically. Okz I will try out the mineral rock.





> Thats the reason you need to cull the shrimps regularly, its to ensure the reddest offspring continue to maintain and improve their coloration... fire red and painted red shrimps are just the best grade of cherry shrimps, they are all still the same species and their offspring will still contain shrimps with less color (though higher grade fire reds do tend to produce a higher percentage of fire red offspring), its all a matter of line breeding them and constantly culling the less desirable colors.
> 
> If you don't cull regularly and just allow lower-grade cherry shrimp offspring to grow up and continue breeding with the higher grade fire reds, the subsequent offspring colors will gradually degrade over time. Its very important to remove those male cherry shrimps that are almost transparent color, do not allow those to breed with your female fire reds. Only hand-pick and keep the male cherry shrimps that have the strongest solid red colors. You don't need alot of male cherry shrimps anyways, just a few of the best fire red males will be able to mate with all the fire red females.


 :Shocked:  I didn't know their color will fade so fast. My fire red offspring are all orange.  :Sad:  I don't have spare tank to cull them. Maybe I just move those almost transparent one to my guppy tank. Let say if the orange one keep mating with the orange one, I will get oranger shrimp? XD Nvm la I just treat them as orange shrimp. Cos the full orange one look quite nice also.
BTW Why OTF cherry red shrimp look like neon color? Is it due to their black lighting?




> Yeah, if a shrimp has good "fire red" genes, their color will naturally improve as they grow older too... looks like that shrimp was also the strongest survivor of the initial batch you added.


OIC.. My last 2 survivor but I think left one now.  :Sad:  I didn't see my other old shrimp for quite some time.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I didn't know their color will fade so fast. My fire red offspring are all orange.  I don't have spare tank to cull them. Maybe I just move those almost transparent one to my guppy tank. Let say if the orange one keep mating with the orange one, I will get oranger shrimp? XD Nvm la I just treat them as orange shrimp. Cos the full orange one look quite nice also.


Yeah, if your shrimp population is starting to steer towards the orange color, then as they breed the percentage of orange color offspring will get higher (there will still be other shades of color being produced, just less percentage). Thats basically how specific shrimp colors are created, its though many many generation of constant culling/separating and breeding the same colors with each other until the the desired colors are achieved.




> BTW Why OTF cherry red shrimp look like neon color? Is it due to their black lighting?


The lights used at LFS like OTF (and many other LFS) are usually those pinkish "color enhancement" lights, they do tend to make the shrimp color look quite different and more intense than they actually are. Its called display marketing.  :Grin:

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## Bern C

Oh... that's how they breed those yellow shrimp? XD Maybe I will try it when I get another smaller tank. It seem like a tedious work. @[email protected]

XD OTF cheated my feeling. I was like wow neon shrimp? Then I take a look properly.. it's cherry red and some of the shrimps shell is slightly transparent. Then I was thinking is it the pinky light or not. But quite cool leh buy those kind of light. Is there a led version?

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## tetrakid

> Oh... that's how they breed those yellow shrimp? XD Maybe I will try it when I get another smaller tank. It seem like a tedious work. @[email protected]
> 
> XD OTF cheated my feeling. I was like wow neon shrimp? Then I take a look properly.. it's cherry red and some of the shrimps shell is slightly transparent. Then I was thinking is it the pinky light or not. But quite cool leh buy those kind of light. Is there a led version?


Lighting is very important for showing off the colours of the fish/shrimps. It you keep fish like Guppies or Rainbow Fish, you will find that their metallic and florescent sheen is extremely attractive with the right lighting. But normally fish keepers only have lights shining from the top of the tank. Other than that, they never think of special lighting at night, for example lighting ONLY from the front with a spotlight of the correct spectral output. Thus they are missing a lot of enjoyment of the fish.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Oh... that's how they breed those yellow shrimp? XD Maybe I will try it when I get another smaller tank. It seem like a tedious work. @[email protected]


Yeah, thats how shrimp breeders create color variations, they maintain dozens and dozens of tanks just to constantly separate every generation of shrimps to line breed specific colors... the same breeding methods are also used by fancy guppy and betta breeders too.

It is indeed tedious and time-consuming work... thats why shrimps with nicer colors and patterns cost so much more.  :Very Happy: 




> XD OTF cheated my feeling. I was like wow neon shrimp? Then I take a look properly.. it's cherry red and some of the shrimps shell is slightly transparent. Then I was thinking is it the pinky light or not. But quite cool leh buy those kind of light. Is there a led version?


There are quite alot of "color enhancing" LED lights available nowadays... usually used by those who keep blood parrot fishes, goldfishes, discus etc.

Here is an example: http://www.up-aqua.com/00-dm-page/00up_ad-led-U-R1.jpg

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## Bern C

I saw those lighting on fish before but never think of making use of the light till I saw it on the cherry shrimp and ramhorn snail. Maybe it's because of the glossy shell that make it more attractive and also it's on the black substrate. XD Thinking of trying it but I don't have fire red shrimp.  :Sad:

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## Bern C

Guys~~~ I have being trying out the hay feeding. I didn't feed my moina for 4-5days and added some hay and hay infusion 3 days ago. Moina seem to turn little brown.
@[email protected] My tank kinda messy due to the hay.  :Crying:  I saw quite a numbers of cyclops too. Will cyclops eat Moina babies??  :Knockout:  It seem like I gotta start another culture.

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## Bern C



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## tetrakid

> Guys~~~ I have being trying out the hay feeding. I didn't feed my moina for 4-5days and added some hay and hay infusion 3 days ago. Moina seem to turn little brown.
> @[email protected] My tank kinda messy due to the hay.  I saw quite a numbers of cyclops too. Will cyclops eat Moina babies??  It seem like I gotta start another culture.


Where you got the hay from? How did you prepared the hay infusion? Mind to tell?

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## Bern C

> Where you got the hay from? How did you prepared the hay infusion? Mind to tell?


I got them from my ex-workplace but I not sure where the source also. XD Mine looks more like straw than hay. Last time we have tried straw, rabbit/hamster hay and dried grass from the road side after grass cutting. The problem with dried grass is that we not sure if it got polluted since it's along the road side. Straw not rich enough. Hay has the richest content but pricey.

For preparation, there are many ways but I stick to the mosquito bait infusion. hay + water + 1 week of fermentation(just left it in the lab without sunlight). For my moina culture, I used 500ml bottle + 3 stalks of straw. XD But I chose to change my plan after reading the forum about adding hay into the daphnia culture. So after 1-2 day of soaking the straws in the water which soften the straws, I add 1 stalk of straw + 1/2 bottle of infusion into the culture. @[email protected] So my tank looks kinda messy due to the straw rotting.

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## tetrakid

Rotting is good, mah, since bacteria is produced for the Moina to eat. I think dried yeast can also produce bacteria.

Your picture is superb, man. Very clear. What camera you used to take it?

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## Bern C

> Rotting is good, mah, since bacteria is produced for the Moina to eat. I think dried yeast can also produce bacteria.
> 
> Your picture is superb, man. Very clear. What camera you used to take it?


Yeah~ but kinda unsightly due to the brown particles floating around. XD Hope no fungus growing though I have some slime growing on my potting soil bag. Thinking of removing it for the moment. Now I having trouble to harvest due to the brown particles. :Sad:  Maybe will try to get a quarantine tank to cleanse the moina before feeding to fish.
I thinking of starting another culture due to the cyclops which I afraid it will compete with my Moina in the future.
Yeah.. I tried dry yeast on one of the culture but XD I suck at it. 3-4 days later it will crash, which might due to overfeeding or container too small. @[email protected] 
Now I will see how long the hay method will last. So far it has the least casualties. ^_^ It has being 8 days with only hay and they are still multiplying. XD Just hope they can last.

I'm using iphone camera. XD Dunno how to use DSLR.

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## tetrakid

Well, hope you succeed in your cultures.  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> Well, hope you succeed in your cultures.


^_^ Thank You~ Also many thanks for all the advises from you guys~

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## Bern C

Update on my Moina in Jar culture:







=( My only running culture. Dunno how long can they last.  :Laughing:  Still trying to make an almost maintenance free culture.

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## tetrakid

> Update on my Moina in Jar culture:
> =( My only running culture. Dunno how long can they last.  Still trying to make an almost maintenance free culture.


How you make hay infusion? Why you can get hay? Where to get?

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## Bern C

> How you make hay infusion? Why you can get hay? Where to get?


That hay infusion is my left over and I diluted it with water. I used 1/2 of the 500ml bottle of hay infusion + hay for my main culture last time. So I diluted the left over hay infusion w/o hay with water. Then use it again and dilute it again. Mine is actually straws as shown on the pic above. You can use rabbit/hamster hay instead. It's more rich so just use a little bit will do. Let say the 500ml mineral water bottle, just enough to cover the bottom will do. XD You can add more but the smell will be damn awful, can smell like rubbish truck if too concentrated. Then dilute it up to your preference. XD I don't have the exact formula to feed the moina. You can also use boiling/hot water to soak the hay to soften it 1st, then pour away the water and refill it. XD Just a gentle reminder, use another container that can safely withstand boiling water.

XD This jar is actually an unexpected culture. It supposed to meant for frozen pulex experiment but I ended up adding 3 Moina. XD So the ammonia source is actually frozen pulex. =X I actually didn't plan to add in any food but I don't have aged water so I used the diluted hay infusion for top up. Actually the diluted hay infusion didn't cloud the water. It seem that moina still able to find food in clear water, which i suspect once the phytoplankton or bacteria build up they will eat it. Or maybe they eating the wall algae, I really have no idea. Also the substrate are filled with algae that will pearl. I think quite a balance eco system.

 :Crying:  This my only running culture now. I have partial water changed and aged my 2g tank + mini tank. Failed my 1st attempt of introducing few Moina into the tanks and tried 2day again. If failed again, maybe it might be due to the reused culture water.

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## tetrakid

Is the hay the ones used to feed horses? How to make an infusion? Is it by soaking in water?

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## Bern C

> Is the hay the ones used to feed horses? How to make an infusion? Is it by soaking in water?


Yup... any dried grass used to feed animals = hay. Straw is for bedding due to low nutrients. So for straws the infusion will be milder than hay. After 2-3 use(refill of fresh water), can throw away the straw and replace the with new straw.

For my hay infusion:
1)Soak in hot/boiling water to soften the hay. Also to kill whatever micro-organism, fungus, bacteria etc. Then pour away the water. <=== Optional. The longer you soak, the more nutrients will be lost. I will soak till the water cool off if I am adding hay straight into my Moina culture else 5-15min should be enough.
2)Add hay into a container with a cover(don't have to be airtight). I don't have the exact answer for the amount of hay to amount of water. It depends on richness of hay or straw. Also the purpose of the hay infusion. It's more of trial and error to get your idea infusion. I usually do it with 1/10 hay to 9/10 water.
3)Fill the container with water and cover it. Let it ferment for 1 week away from direct sunlight.
4)After a week, the culture might be very gross and super stinky. At times you might find the mold and fungus growing on your infusion. No worries, just stir the infusion. The infusion is ready when there's a smell, water turn brown and slightly cloudy.
5)Filter the amount of infusion you need through a kitchen sieve or net. If you want less particles then filter again with brine shrimp net. Note** Don't throw away the hay residue as it can be reused.
6)Return the hay residue back to the container and refill the container when it's near empty. For hay, it can be reused 3-5times. So label your container the number of times it has being reused.
7)Dilute the filtered infusion to your desired concentration with water. =D Done~

Hope this help. ^_^ Oh ya.... BTW remember to cover the moina culture with mosquito net or something as hay infusion is used as a mosquito bait.

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## tetrakid

@Bern_C
Thank you very much for your detailed instructions.

How long can dried hay be stored for future use, months or years?

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## Bern C

How long can dried hay be stored for future use, months or years?[/QUOTE]

No problem~ =D

Since we are using it to make infusion, it can be stored for few years if kept dry and away from sunlight. XD But don't use it to feed hamster rabbit if it's more than a year old hay as it will lose it nutrition values as it ages. Try to get a very small pack, as hay can be reused. I don't recommend drying the used hay and store it for next reuse as I never try it before. @[email protected] I think it gonna be very messy due the the gross stuff and hay starting to break up.

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## Urban Aquaria

Creating a cloudy bacteria solution from rotting hay is a good method to generate microscopic food sources for feeding daphnia... definitely more hygienic (and less stinky) than chicken poop which the farms use.  :Grin:

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## Bern C

> Creating a cloudy bacteria solution from rotting hay is a good method to generate microscopic food sources for feeding daphnia... definitely more hygienic (and less stinky) than chicken poop which the farms use.


 :Laughing:  True.... True...


I'm looking towards using snail poop poop. I haven't get ramshorn yet. But I pick up the courage and added one bladder snail from my conserved snail culture into my mini tank. It has been 1.5 day, that tiny snail is growing and pooping a lot. Also my reintroduced moina still surviving in that mini tank.  :Jump for joy:  Hope can can form a good eco system...
My 2g tank is getting messy with algae growing on the wall. Will get some ramshorn for that tank.

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## tetrakid

> Creating a cloudy bacteria solution from rotting hay is a good method to generate microscopic food sources for feeding daphnia... definitely more hygienic (and less stinky) than chicken poop which the farms use.


I believe pig poo is also used extensively.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, any organic matter that decomposes/rots will generate the required bacteria... just depends on cost and individual preference.

I've also tried simply blending scrap vegetables and plant trimmings in a blender, then pour the thick slurry paste into a fine cheese cloth and squeeze out the green liquid, then use the liquid to feed filter feeders, works well too.

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## tetrakid

> True.... True...
> 
> 
> I'm looking towards using snail poop poop. I haven't get ramshorn yet. But I pick up the courage and added one bladder snail from my conserved snail culture into my mini tank. It has been 1.5 day, that tiny snail is growing and pooping a lot. Also my reintroduced moina still surviving in that mini tank.  Hope can can form a good eco system...
> My 2g tank is getting messy with algae growing on the wall. Will get some ramshorn for that tank.


The trick is to establish a self-sustaining culture tank in which the inhabitants all contribute to the overall ecosystem within the tank.
With such an ongoing culture tank, there will be no need to worry about feeding the Moina. The only feeding done is to ensure the good health of the 'main contributer'.
For some, the main contributor can be ancistrus fish.

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## Bern C

> The trick is to establish a self-sustaining culture tank in which the inhabitants all contribute to the overall ecosystem within the tank.
> With such an ongoing culture tank, there will be no need to worry about feeding the Moina. The only feeding done is to ensure the good health of the 'main contributer'.
> For some, the main contributor can be ancistrus fish.


Yeah...  :Laughing:  poop > algae & phytoplankton > snail & moina > poop > bacteria > moina XD I thinking of adding otto & shrimp but too sensitive. Also the sunlight might torture them.

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## tetrakid

> Yeah...  poop > algae & phytoplankton > snail & moina > poop > bacteria > moina XD I thinking of adding otto & shrimp but too sensitive. Also the sunlight might torture them.


You may wish to experiment with cultivating some bacteria by means of composting like what gardeners do. 
Soaked soup made from the muck from the compost bucket will definitely be rich with aerobic bacteria. 
Just a thought, as it is worth trying out if you are serious about Moina.

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## Bern C

> You may wish to experiment with cultivating some bacteria by means of composting like what gardeners do. 
> Soaked soup made from the muck from the compost bucket will definitely be rich with aerobic bacteria. 
> Just a thought, as it is worth trying out if you are serious about Moina.


Is potting mix/soil same as gardeners compost? Or Do they have the same effect? XD I don't have much knowledge in gardening.

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## tetrakid

> Is potting mix/soil same as gardeners compost? Or Do they have the same effect? XD I don't have much knowledge in gardening.


No. Composting is a whole new ball game, though serious gardeners have been doing it for ages.
Basically composting involves making use of scrap vegetable leftovers and leaving them to rot and break down.
A compost bin is a staple item in the homes of gardeners in the West.

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## Bern C

> No. Composting is a whole new ball game, though serious gardeners have been doing it for ages.
> Basically composting involves making use of scrap vegetable leftovers and leaving them to rot and break down.
> A compost bin is a staple item in the homes of gardeners in the West.


 :Crying:  So much work... Is there available in gardening shop or only can DIY??

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## tetrakid

> So much work... Is there available in gardening shop or only can DIY??


There are two types of composting - with worms and without worms. 
The purpose of the wormless method is to convert unused food scraps into humus in time by bacterial decomposition. 
The humus is used as plant fertilizer. Composting with worms is the more powerful method, as the worm poo in the 
compost is valuable and is known as the gardener's black gold.  :Smile: 

Both methods are absolutely DIYable, as well as can be done using commercial equipment.

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## Bern C

> There are two types of composting - with worms and without worms. 
> The purpose of the wormless method is to convert unused food scraps into humus in time by bacterial decomposition. 
> The humus is used as plant fertilizer. Composting with worms is the more powerful method, as the worm poo in the 
> compost is valuable and is known as the gardener's black gold. 
> 
> Both methods are absolutely DIYable, as well as can be done using commercial equipment.


Oh... the wormy one sounds interesting... 
Found a DIY compost link: https://www.nparks.gov.sg/gardening/...nts/composting
@[email protected] I don't think I will go for DIY too much work.. XD Hope able get from gardening shop.

 :Jump for joy:  If my jar moina can last for 4 more weeks, maybe I will look into daphnia. So far my mini tank is aging/maturing, still see that few moina inside. Waiting for them to boom.

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## tetrakid

> Oh... the wormy one sounds interesting... 
> Found a DIY compost link: https://www.nparks.gov.sg/gardening/...nts/composting
> @[email protected] I don't think I will go for DIY too much work.. XD Hope able get from gardening shop.
> 
>  If my jar moina can last for 4 more weeks, maybe I will look into daphnia. So far my mini tank is aging/maturing, still see that few moina inside. Waiting for them to boom.


The most important thing in daphnia culturing is an uninterrupted supply of bacterial food for them. 
Thus, a goodly and regular supply of the latter is essential to ensure a sustainable longevity of the endeavour.  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> The most important thing in daphnia culturing is an uninterrupted supply of bacterial food for them. 
> Thus, a goodly and regular supply of the latter is essential to ensure a sustainable longevity of the endeavour.


 :Jump for joy:  Many thanks for the inputs. I'm looking into it and see how can I apply them. For now I will focus on a stable culture instead of yield. So I think eco system will be the best option for regular and constant supply of food.

^_^ I found some interesting threads in this forum about Daphnia.  :Knockout:  I just finished reading the 12 pages thread: Daphnia Culture. I was very excited when I read about Daphnia being imported and cultivated but kinda shock and discouraging when I read about the cultures unable to sustain.  :Sad:  No one actually succeeded culturing them in long term?? I will con't dig out more threads and find out more before going into Daphnia @[email protected]

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## tetrakid

> Many thanks for the inputs. I'm looking into it and see how can I apply them. For now I will focus on a stable culture instead of yield. So I think eco system will be the best option for regular and constant supply of food.
> 
> ^_^ I found some interesting threads in this forum about Daphnia.  I just finished reading the 12 pages thread: Daphnia Culture. I was very excited when I read about Daphnia being imported and cultivated but kinda shock and discouraging when I read about the cultures unable to sustain.  No one actually succeeded culturing them in long term?? I will con't dig out more threads and find out more before going into Daphnia @[email protected]


You are right. Big juicy Daphnia has been found here before and there's no reason that they couldn't exist now. I believe the missing link is the food source. In my young days. I had personally scooped up thick netfuls of red juicy Daphnia from small ponds. There's so much in the net that I just need to run my finger in it to lift up a big blob of the red Daphnia.

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## Bern C

> You are right. Big juicy Daphnia has been found here before and there's no reason that they couldn't exist now. I believe the missing link is the food source. In my young days. I had personally scooped up thick netfuls of red juicy Daphnia from small ponds. There's so much in the net that I just need to run my finger in it to lift up a big blob of the red Daphnia.


Do you still remember the places that you found those Daphnia?? =D Thinking of going there take a look... maybe can find some clues.

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## tetrakid

> Do you still remember the places that you found those Daphnia?? =D Thinking of going there take a look... maybe can find some clues.


Lol... that was so very long ago, when there were no flats around Crawford/Kallang area. In those days, there were many fields with cattle, ponds and also farm-type abodes, but no more. In fact, it's the same everywhere, all built-up concrete jungle everywhere.

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## Bern C

> Lol... that was so very long ago, when there were no flats around Crawford/Kallang area. In those days, there were many fields with cattle, ponds and also farm-type abodes, but no more. In fact, it's the same everywhere, all built-up concrete jungle everywhere.


XD That's very very long ago... I am not even born yet. If it's 15 over years ago, maybe I will still go explore the kallang park as there are still some foliage. Maybe can take some soil samples. 
XD I still remember I saw few uncles caught 100 over grouper fish under Nicoll highway. I used to catch flower crabs slighty further down. But now become freshwater reservoir liao. XD I wonder if it's possible that there are dahpnia in kallang basin.

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## Urban Aquaria

I guess if daphnia pulex or daphnia magna were easy to culture in local conditions, they would be cultured at mass quantities and sold as live feed at every LFS by now... but they are nowhere to be found locally. Maybe as global warming creates greater extremes in our weather, it probably changed the ecosystem and composition of micro-fauna in local waters too (compared to decades ago).

Thats a reason why moina are the only ones which can still be easily bought locally, as they are found to have the least requirements and are the most adaptable to local conditions.

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## tetrakid

Not related to Daphnia but just as a matter interest. 

A long time ago, there used to be a LFS among a row of shops at the place now known as Somerset 313. The LFS was known as "Saabab Centre" or something like that. 
It was inside a very long and narrow alley between 2 buildings, with a row of fish tanks right from the front to the rear end of the alley. 
Opposite that LFS was Centrepoint where John Little used to be later on. Somewhere on the 4th floor there used to be a "Macho Ranchu" LFS which specializes in Ranchus.

But so far, none of my friends could confirm their existence.

----------


## Bern C

> I guess if daphnia pulex or daphnia magna were easy to culture in local conditions, they would be cultured at mass quantities and sold as live feed at every LFS by now... but they are nowhere to be found locally. Maybe as global warming creates greater extremes in our weather, it probably changed the ecosystem and composition of micro-fauna in local waters too (compared to decades ago).
> 
> Thats a reason why moina are the only ones which can still be easily bought locally, as they are found to have the least requirements and are the most adaptable to local conditions.


Yeah... Really demoralizing.  :Crying:  At first I thought that it's not cost effective for LFS to cultivate Daphnia... But later I read that it's actually being imported but failed to sustain. I was thinking maybe if I succeeded in Moina maybe I can proceed to Daphnia but it seem like I almost reaching a dead end. I still digging out old threads from local forums and collect more information on Moina and Daphnia. What I interested in is how long does a Moina usually last before crashing? How long each method can sustain and the yield rate. @[email protected]




> Not related to Daphnia but just as a matter interest. 
> 
> A long time ago, there used to be a LFS among a row of shops at the place now known as Somerset 313. The LFS was known as "Saabab Centre" or something like that. 
> It was inside a very long and narrow alley between 2 buildings, with a row of fish tanks right from the front to the rear end of the alley. 
> Opposite that LFS was Centrepoint where John Little used to be later on. Somewhere on the 4th floor there used to be a "Macho Ranchu" LFS which specializes in Ranchus.
> 
> But so far, none of my friends could confirm their existence.


XD Then can catch fish from that big longkang also... Jk. You mean Specialist shopping centre?

----------


## tetrakid

> Yeah... Really demoralizing.  At first I thought that it's not cost effective for LFS to cultivate Daphnia... But later I read that it's actually being imported but failed to sustain. I was thinking maybe if I succeeded in Moina maybe I can proceed to Daphnia but it seem like I almost reaching a dead end. I still digging out old threads from local forums and collect more information on Moina and Daphnia. What I interested in is how long does a Moina usually last before crashing? How long each method can sustain and the yield rate. @[email protected]
> 
> XD Then can catch fish from that big longkang also... Jk. You mean Specialist shopping centre?


I believe some hobbyists in rural areas of Malaysia could still be still cultivating some Daphnia. Perhaps a relentless search is needed to find a source.

That LFS (Saabab Centre) existed long before Specialist Shopping Centre and Hotel Phoenix was built. It was in a row of low 1-storey shops, not highrise buildings.

----------


## tetrakid

> Oh... the wormy one sounds interesting... 
> Found a DIY compost link: https://www.nparks.gov.sg/gardening/...nts/composting
> @[email protected] I don't think I will go for DIY too much work.. XD Hope able get from gardening shop.


For those who keep big Goldfish or Koi, cultivating your own earthworms can be worthwhile. 
It's also great for those who go fishing regularly.
Learn how to do it here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srTrDpxm1Uk

----------


## Bern C

> I believe some hobbyists in rural areas of Malaysia could still be still cultivating some Daphnia. Perhaps a relentless search is needed to find a source.
> 
> That LFS (Saabab Centre) existed long before Specialist Shopping Centre and Hotel Phoenix was built. It was in a row of low 1-storey shops, not highrise buildings.


XD If longer than Specialist SC, then I am not born yet... 

I tried to google Msia daphnia for sale but kinda skeptical. As most look for Daphnia are those betta keepers and some call Moina as Daphnia. Then I saw a source from Msia that sell Daphnia resting eggs but I afraid it might be Moina. I go through their forums, most have the problems with keeping Moina and cracking their head on the culture. Most are the same issue as us.

BTW, I realize one hack on Daphnia and Moina. Not sure if it's something new. I think one of the reason why LFS kept high concentration of Moina in a pack is also due to making them red. When Moina & Daphnia under stress and low oxygen level, they will produce more Hemoglobin to help them absorb oxygen. This Hemoglobin is actually protein. 




> For those who keep big Goldfish or Koi, cultivating your own earthworms can be worthwhile. 
> It's also great for those who go fishing regularly.
> Learn how to do it here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srTrDpxm1Uk


XD No more keeping goldfish liao... The last time I kept goldfish is during primary school. My goldfishes were prone to parasites that I actually hand removed one of them. XD I can't really remember how I actually did it. I think I added some medication or salt on that 0.5-1cm oval shape parasite then slowly dig and pull it off. It's like some kind of flea like insect that has legs. @[email protected]

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## tetrakid

> I tried to google Msia daphnia for sale but kinda skeptical. As most look for Daphnia are those betta keepers and some call Moina as Daphnia. Then I saw a source from Msia that sell Daphnia resting eggs but I afraid it might be Moina. I go through their forums, most have the problems with keeping Moina and cracking their head on the culture. Most are the same issue as us.


For experimenting, it's better to order resting eggs from overseas.

It's a good thing that apparently no one has found the secret of cultivating big boons successfully yet. 
Which means if you can succeed, the market is all yours. I believe it is possible when the techniques are discovered.

PS> Betta breeders are more into microworms as a staple.

----------


## Bern C

> For experimenting, it's better to order resting eggs from overseas.
> 
> It's a good thing that apparently no one has found the secret of cultivating big boons successfully yet.
> Which means if you can succeed, the market is all yours. I believe it is possible when the techniques are discovered.
> 
> PS> Betta breeders are more into microworms as a staple.


@[email protected] Still haven't decide if I should try culturing Daphnia yet. Yeah... That is a very good suggestion. Will look into it when I have decided to go into Daphnia. 

BTW after digging out old threads regarding about Moina and Daphina culture, it seem like keeping Moina culture running is as hard as keeping daphnia. I found something interesting. http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...-live-daphnias My method quite similar to *XnSdVd*. I wonder how is he doing now.. XD Need more tips from Moina and Daphnia pioneers.



Update on my 2g tank:
XD I decided to remove my 2 horn snails w/o horn from my shrimp tank and put it into 2g tank as my shrimp tank recently become too acidic, ph6. My 3rd horn snail probably dead as I didn't see it for weeks.  :Crying:  The 2 horn snails condition kinda bad, a 3mm diameter and 1-2mm deep hole. My 2 horn snails did a very good job. Cleared 90% of the brown and green algae on the wall in less than 2 days. I am kinda worry that it might clear all the algae. @[email protected]



As for my 2 weeks++ Microfex culture, it seem nothing much has change, population like the same. some like the straw and shred it into pieces. Some like to hide in the substrate. Most of them congregate on the charcoal which I think it's a bad thing.

----------


## tetrakid

Moina is also hard to culture as they are also extremely sensitive to environmental 
Crashing cultures is the main reason why it is not a profitable venture for profit.

Why don't you put in another piece of charcoal further away and see if the Deros congregate at both charcoals?
That may mean they are okay with charcoal. Just for some experimental insight.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> Moina is also hard to culture as they are also extremely sensitive to environmental 
> Crashing cultures is the main reason why it is not a profitable venture for profit.
> 
> Why don't you put in another piece of charcoal further away and see if the Deros congregate at both charcoals?
> That may mean they are okay with charcoal. Just for some experimental insight.


Yeah.. Both of them seem equally hard to culture. I still reading more about Daphnia and see if it can actually acclimate to Singapore environment. Maybe if someone culture able to run long enough, then after few generation the offspring will get use to the environment?? I have no idea.

XD Regarding about the Deros, I afraid my water quality is bad so they all congregate on the charcoal. I will try adding another charcoal or maybe some floating platform see if they will move to the other platform. I done WC ytd yet they still on the charcoal. Then at bottom there are lot detritus that I dunno to remove or not. There're some Deros at the bottom too but I am not sure if they are eating the detritus or not. I have not being adding any food for a week due to the detritus.

----------


## tetrakid

> Regarding about the Deros, I afraid my water quality is bad so they all congregate on the charcoal. I will try adding another charcoal or maybe some floating platform see if they will move to the other platform. I done WC ytd yet they still on the charcoal. Then at bottom there are lot detritus that I dunno to remove or not. There're some Deros at the bottom too but I am not sure if they are eating the detritus or not. I have not being adding any food for a week due to the detritus.


Let's wait for Shifu UA to update us on his Dero culture. I believe he will be able to maintain a goodly sized culture in time.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> Let's wait for Shifu UA to update us on his Dero culture. I believe he will be able to maintain a goodly sized culture in time.


 :Jump for joy: YEAH~ Can't wait for Shifu UA updates!! 
I kinda regraded to add my Deros into the mini tank with substrate. It actually for Moina but I accidental spilled it. XD So I used it for my Deros. Now I find the substrate kinda troublesome during cleaning and WC. @[email protected] Every few days or week I gotta peep at the bottom of the tank to see how much detritus it has accumulated and how many Deros still at the bottom.

----------


## tetrakid

> YEAH~ Can't wait for Shifu UA updates!! 
> I kinda regraded to add my Deros into the mini tank with substrate. It actually for Moina but I accidental spilled it. XD So I used it for my Deros. Now I find the substrate kinda troublesome during cleaning and WC. @[email protected] Every few days or week I gotta peep at the bottom of the tank to see how much detritus it has accumulated and how many Deros still at the bottom.


Wa, jialard. With substrate very hard to see them, lol.  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> I kinda regraded to add my Deros into the mini tank with substrate. It actually for Moina but I accidental spilled it. XD So I used it for my Deros. Now I find the substrate kinda troublesome during cleaning and WC. @[email protected] Every few days or week I gotta peep at the bottom of the tank to see how much detritus it has accumulated and how many Deros still at the bottom.


Yeah, i found that dero worms don't really need substrate too... i tried putting them in sand, but they continue just sitting in a ball on top of it (quite different from tubifex worms which burrow). Dero worms seem to be more "clingers" and they prefer to wrap around food, objects or roots of plants. 

I guess thats probably why you spot them clinging on to the charcoal, they could be feeding on food trapped around or inside the object.

My culture containers don't use any substrate, so that its easy to observe their food intake and harvest them for feeding (they form balls of worms scattered around the container), i just use a small pincette to pick up a ball of them to feed to my tanks. Its also easier to use a pipette to clean and remove excess detritus too (which are just a combination of their waste and inedible parts of pellet/wafer food).

----------


## Bern C

> Yeah, i found that dero worms don't need substrate... i tried putting them in sand, but they continue just sitting in a ball on top of it (quite different from tubifex worms which burrow). Dero worms seem to be more "clingers" and they prefer to wrap around food, objects or roots of plants. 
> 
> I guess thats probably why you spot them clinging on to the charcoal, they could be feeding on food trapped around or inside the object.
> 
> My culture containers don't use any substrate, so its easy to observe and harvest them for feeding (they form balls of worms scattered around the container), i just use a small pincette to pick up a ball of them to feed to my tanks. Its also easier to use a pipette to clean and remove excess detritus too (which are just a combination of their waste and inedible parts of pellet/wafer food).


 :Crying:  Some are all over the bottom wrapping around the substrate. Will remove the substrate tmr. @[email protected] I don't think there's food there as the charcoal is floating. I think this is the reason why they are not multiplying. Oh... I hesitate to remove the detritus because it looks like mashed pellet. XD Didn't know they are inedible parts. ^_^ Thanks Shifu UA for the input.

How's your yield rate of your Deros? Is it very fast??

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> Some are all over the bottom wrapping around the substrate. Will remove the substrate tmr. @[email protected] I don't think there's food there as the charcoal is floating. I think this is the reason why they are not multiplying. Oh... I hesitate to remove the detritus because it looks like mashed pellet. XD Didn't know they are inedible parts. ^_^ Thanks Shifu UA for the input.


Yeah, usually you can see the dero worms quite easily so just use a pipette to suck up any detritus that doesn't have worms in it (or simply poke it abit and any dero worms that are around will start swimming away). 

Btw, dero worms reproduce by fission (they don't lay eggs), so a worm basically grows another worm from its other end, when both are long enough they detach and become 2 separate worms. Therefore there are actually no tiny baby worms, its either single full grown worms (1-2cm length) or longer worms (2-3cm length) that are in the process of developing another worm.




> How's your yield rate of your Deros? Is it very fast??


Currently at its most optimal rate (ie. ample food and frequent water changes), the population can double every 3-4 days... but this requires constant work to do, as i need to check them regularly and feed more food as soon as they finish eating, and due to the high rate of feeding and growing (and waste production), i also have to change water frequently, at peak production i had to do 90% water change every day.

Speed of reproduction also depends on their starting numbers, each test culture i started with 20 worms (counted them individually), so it takes more time for them to multiply if starting with small quantities. Even with the population doubling every 3-4 days.... 20 > 40 > 80 > 160 etc, it still takes 2+ weeks of work to get enough worms to feed fishes, then each time i feed my fishes 80-100 worms, it drops the population of worms and i have to wait until they replenish again. 

This sort of small culture is okay for those who only feed live food occasionally every few days (in my case its just for fun and watching the fishes eat). But for those who need a constant supply every day (ie. have many tanks or lots of fry to feed), will have to use much larger culture tubs and keep the culture going for many weeks and months until the dero worm population is much larger before starting to feed their fishes. That will need more space and more patience.  :Grin: 

Their reproduction rate is highly dependent on food supply, the speed they grow is the speed they re-produce (since they multiply by fission). So if they are supplied food 24/7, they will sustain a high rate of reproduction... the only problem with feeding alot is the water quality drops faster, so have to do more water changes to keep up with the pace.

From what i've seen so far, dero worms can tolerate really crappy water quality (conditions whereby other creatures like moina and snails will die off, yet the dero worms are still alive), but their reproduction rate will tend to stall in such environments. An obvious sign is when the water starts getting stinky and the worms start to congregate in groups near the water surface. So they also do need good water conditions to sustain healthy growth rate and reproduction.

Basically the key is ample food + clean water = maximum reproduction rate, its all about balancing those 2 factors.

I'll be posting a more detailed thread with photos of my test culture, so there will be more info shared in that thread soon.

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## Bern C

> Yeah, usually you can see the dero worms quite easily so just use a pipette to suck up any detritus that doesn't have worms in it (or simply poke it abit and any dero worms that are around will start swimming away). 
> 
> Btw, dero worms reproduce by fission (they don't lay eggs), so a worm basically grows another worm from its other end, when both are long enough they detach and become 2 separate worms. Therefore there are actually no tiny baby worms, its either single full grown worms (1-2cm length) or longer worms (2-3cm length) that are in the process of developing another worm.


Yeah... I just removed some with a pipette. XD But I didn't see thoroughly if there's Dero inside or not. I think don't have ba or maybe 1 or 2. Thanks for your tips. =D

Oh... At first I thought there reproduce by eggs.  :Opps:  Next time I will make sure I won't pour even a single Dero away. 




> Currently at its most optimal rate (ie. ample food and frequent water changes), the population can double every 3-4 days... but this requires constant work to do, as i need to check them regularly and feed more food as soon as they finish eating, and due to the high rate of feeding and growing (and waste production), i also have to change water frequently, at peak production i had to do 90% water change every day.
> 
> Speed of reproduction also depends on their starting numbers, each test culture i started with 20 worms (counted them individually), so it takes more time for them to multiply if starting with small quantities. Even with the population doubling every 3-4 days.... 20 > 40 > 80 > 160 etc, it still takes 2+ weeks of work to get enough worms to feed fishes, then each time i feed my fishes 80-100 worms, it drops the population of worms and i have to wait until they replenish again. 
> 
> This sort of small culture is okay for those who only feed live food occasionally every few days (in my case its just for fun and watching the fishes eat). But for those who need a constant supply every day (ie. have many tanks or lots of fry to feed), will have to use much larger culture tubs and keep the culture going for many weeks and months until the dero worm population is much larger before starting to feed their fishes. That will need more space and more patience. 
> 
> Their reproduction rate is highly dependent on food supply, the speed they grow is the speed they re-produce (since they multiply by fission). So if they are supplied food 24/7, they will sustain a high rate of reproduction... the only problem with feeding alot is the water quality drops faster, so have to do more water changes to keep up with the pace.
> 
> From what i've seen so far, dero worms can tolerate really crappy water quality (conditions whereby other creatures like moina and snails will die off, yet the dero worms are still alive), but their reproduction rate will tend to stall in such environments. An obvious sign is when the water starts getting stinky and the worms start to congregate in groups near the water surface. So they also do need good water conditions to sustain healthy growth rate and reproduction.
> ...


Ohh.... That is really quite fast.. Can compare with Daphnia or Moina.. But my Dero... XD I overlooked them as I am focusing on Moina and Daphnia. I only change water once every week as my water is quite clear as long as I don't disturb the detritus.
Hahaha, those Dero in my shrimp tank actually reproduce faster than my culture. But I left them there, so they will be alive if they don't swim around. Else will end up in my rasbora stomach.

Hmm.. If that i the case... Dero is much productive than Daphnia... =D You can be our Dero suppliers.  :Jump for joy:  Looking forward for your post.

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## Bern C

OMG~ Worms are back again... in my Walstad tank soil. They seem to look like Microfex??







My seed shrimp population is out of control.  :Crying:  Cos my HOB will always wash some of the food down. My seed shrimps will be on frenzy mode going for those food on the substrate. My guppy doesn't seem to eat seed shrimp.

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## Urban Aquaria

> OMG~ Worms are back again... in my Walstad tank soil. They seem to look like Microfex??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My seed shrimp population is out of control.  Cos my HOB will always wash some of the food down. My seed shrimps will be on frenzy mode going for those food on the substrate. My guppy doesn't seem to eat seed shrimp.


Hmmm... i haven't seen my dero worms burrow into soil before, perhaps they might be another type of worm. Maybe tubifex? Can try digging out a few and see if they do the wiggle swimming patten in the water column.

Ostracods (aka seed shrimps) are tough creatures, fishes which are well fed don't bother as much with them due to their harder shells. You can try indostomus paradoxus, they specialize in hunting critters like ostracods and worms, so can help control the critter population.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Ohh.... That is really quite fast.. Can compare with Daphnia or Moina.. But my Dero... XD I overlooked them as I am focusing on Moina and Daphnia. I only change water once every week as my water is quite clear as long as I don't disturb the detritus.
> Hahaha, those Dero in my shrimp tank actually reproduce faster than my culture. But I left them there, so they will be alive if they don't swim around. Else will end up in my rasbora stomach.
> Hmm.. If that i the case... Dero is much productive than Daphnia... =D You can be our Dero suppliers.  Looking forward for your post.


Yeah, i guess your dero worms in the moina container are getting sufficient food to grow slowly but not alot to really grow fast, if the tank water is still clear after a week then most likely the food supply is quite minimal. In my cultures, i toss in more sinking wafers and shrimp pellets anytime i see them finishing eating (which can be as often as 2-3 times a day), thats how quick they consume the food to grow and reproduce, though it also means lots of waste produced too.

I would consider dero worms as more hardy and easier to keep than moina, but reproduction is still not as fast as moina... moina can reproduce much faster under optimal conditions (ie. lots of suspended good quality food and good water conditions), easily doubling their numbers overnight, but they also overpopulate and the extra food foul the water much faster so the culture crashes more easily, its a more tricky balancing act for small cultures.

With dero worms, they can survive under some neglect with less optimal water conditions and less food, so there is at least some buffer.... still got chance to recover a culture with water changes and extra feedings.  :Very Happy:

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## tetrakid

The trick with growing a goodly-sized Dero Worms lies in not feeding your fish with it until a sizable population is achieved.
Depleting the volume of the culture while it is still growing is counter-productive.

The objective should be to build up a culture capable of sustaining one's long-term needs, perhaps with a little to spare.

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## Urban Aquaria

> The trick with growing a goodly-sized Dero Worms lies in not feeding your fish with it until a sizable population is achieved.
> Depleting the volume of the culture while it is still growing is counter-productive.
> 
> The objective should be to build up a culture capable of sustaining one's long-term needs, perhaps with a little to spare.


Yeah, i'm not culturing for mass quantities at the moment, mainly still in the testing phase trying out different water conditions and feeding methods, hence the slower progress, due to the populations being split into a few smaller containers.

There is definitely a limit to their population growth based on tank size though, in small volume containers it can be quite tedious to constantly feed and do frequent water changes in order to see fast growth... so my next step for growing larger populations is to use a much larger shallow tub, then can feed alot and no need to do water changes so frequently (maybe only once a week) as the large water volume can sustain the bio-load and wouldn't foul so quickly.

Hmmm... multi-tier rack with 3ft length shallow tubs = dero worm farm?  :Grin:

----------


## tetrakid

> Yeah, i'm not culturing for mass quantities at the moment, mainly still in the testing phase trying out different water conditions and feeding methods, hence the slower progress, due to the populations being split into a few smaller containers.
> 
> There is definitely a limit to their population growth based on tank size though, in small volume containers it can be quite tedious to constantly feed and do frequent water changes in order to see fast growth... so my next step for growing larger populations is to use a much larger shallow tub, then can feed alot and no need to do water changes so frequently (maybe only once a week) as the large water volume can sustain the bio-load and wouldn't foul so quickly.
> 
> Hmmm... multi-tier rack with 3ft length shallow tubs = dero worm farm?


That's a good idea  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> Hmmm... i haven't seen my dero worms burrow into soil before, perhaps they might be another type of worm. Maybe tubifex? Can try digging out a few and see if they do the wiggle swimming patten in the water column.
> 
> Ostracods (aka seed shrimps) are tough creatures, fishes which are well fed don't bother as much with them due to their harder shells. You can try indostomus paradoxus, they specialize in hunting critters like ostracods and worms, so can help control the critter population.


@[email protected] Spend quite sometime to dig and suck dero into the pipette. They are fast once I poke the pipette into the soil. XD kinda mess up the substrate and soil a bit.

Here's the vid of the worm:





@[email protected] Seem like Dero?? Last time before I rescaped the tank, I had more but they are like more to white and some are very pale pink. This one like more red and slightly fatter.

Ohhh....that fish.. I think I saw it before either at seaview or otf. Didn't know they eat seed shrimp I was thinking about puffer but they are nipper. ^_^ Thanks for your recommendation~




> Yeah, i guess your dero worms in the moina container are getting sufficient food to grow slowly but not alot to really grow fast, if the tank water is still clear after a week then most likely the food supply is quite minimal. In my cultures, i toss in more sinking wafers and shrimp pellets anytime i see them finishing eating (which can be as often as 2-3 times a day), thats how quick they consume the food to grow and reproduce, though it also means lots of waste produced too.
> 
> I would consider dero worms as more hardy and easier to keep than moina, but reproduction is still not as fast as moina... moina can reproduce much faster under optimal conditions (ie. lots of suspended good quality food and good water conditions), easily doubling their numbers overnight, but they also overpopulate and the extra food foul the water much faster so the culture crashes more easily, its a more tricky balancing act for small cultures.
> 
> With dero worms, they can survive under some neglect with less optimal water conditions and less food, so there is at least some buffer.... still got chance to recover a culture with water changes and extra feedings.


Yeah agree.. For Moina you can have them boom one moment then the next day crashed. While Dero worms super hardy.. They able to survive in my small fan choy container for quite a number of days with foul water. I think they are much productive than Moina as Moina crashes easily. But rasbora like having more trouble eating Dero. =_=

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## Urban Aquaria

> @[email protected] Seem like Dero?? Last time before I rescaped the tank, I had more but they are like more to white and some are very pale pink. This one like more red and slightly fatter.


Yeah, looks and acts like dero worms... seems you have a dero colony living in that tank too.  :Smile: 

I guess their color depends on the food they eat and maybe the oxygen content in the water, or it could be the background and lighting too.

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## tetrakid

Dero Worms is definitely the answer to Tubifex as a viable alternative.  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> Yeah, looks and acts like dero worms... seems you have a dero colony living in that tank too. 
> 
> I guess their color depends on the food they eat and maybe the oxygen content in the water, or it could be the background and lighting too.


Oh... @[email protected] But my fish won't be able to reach them nor I able to dig them out. I think I only can let them be... as a cleaning crews.
XD Maybe they eat the soil that's why they look more red to brown.




> Dero Worms is definitely the answer to Tubifex as a viable alternative.


Yeah agree...  :Well done:

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## Bern C

XD It has being a while since my last update. So far my Jar of Moina still surviving and my mini tank(Moina) population are growing too. Will post a video or photo of it next time. Today my focus is on my new culture, mini tank X.  :Opps: 

Here the vid of my day 2 culture, my newborn ^_^







So far total population only 1.  :Sad: 


Vid will be up in 15min time... Sorry about that ~_~

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## Ingen

Cant see anything, what are you feeding Daphnia?

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## Bern C

XD It's kinda tiny as it just hatched... It's somewhere at the front bottom of the tank at the start of the video. ^_^ Another one just hatched, current population 2.

I going to feed them hay infusion + green water cultivated from TPY garden pond. XD Hope they can survive.

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## tetrakid

> XD It's kinda tiny as it just hatched... It's somewhere at the front bottom of the tank at the start of the video. ^_^ Another one just hatched, current population 2.
> 
> I going to feed them hay infusion + green water cultivated from TPY garden pond. XD Hope they can survive.


@Bern C 
Thanks for the update.

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## Bern C

> @Bern C 
> Thanks for the update.


No prob~ ^_^ few more hatched ytd night, current population 5. The newborns are around the size of adult moina or slightly smaller. I doubt it can be used as fry feed. Also they look different from moina, has longer tail. Maybe that is the reason why Moina is more popular here.

Aww.... I hope they really can sustain... but I doubt I can mass culture them.


Recently I found out that there is a different between Daphnia Magna and Daphnia Russian Red. I read from a article that Russian Red is from Moina genera. XD But I find more info about RR.

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## Ingen

Looks interesting, does spirulina powder works as feed for them? Thinking trying out a culture, but no idea how at the moment.

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## Bern C

> Looks interesting, does spirulina powder works as feed for them? Thinking trying out a culture, but no idea how at the moment.


Yup.. It works. Shifu UA using spirulina + yeast. You can backtrack this thread for his formula. 
XD I didn't use spirulina because I dunno where to get them. I think it's kinda expensive in a long run?? XD I dunno, didnt check out the price.

Have you culture Moina before?? Maybe can start with Moina 1st if it's your 1st time as it's easily available. I think key is not to overpopulate the tank and start from small population and let it grow. The $1 Moina from LFS like need 10-20gallon tank to culture them. @[email protected] I tried air pump in culturing 1/4 of the bag in 2.5g tank also ended up crashing in days.

----------


## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, i use a mix of active yeast + spirulina for a combination of growth and to increase nutritional value in the moina (aka gut loading).

I do find that if only spirulina is fed, the moina will still grow, though at a much slower pace... but with active yeast, their growth rate is significantly faster and if well-fed, can see the population doubling on a daily basis.

I currently use the Ocean Free Spiru-Max, cost around $10+ for a bottle. Only a very tiny amount is used each time to mix and feed the moina so a bottle of it can last quite a long time (just have to keep it in a fridge to prolong the freshness). I also mix the spirulina with fish food to feed my fishes and shrimps too, so its a part of the livestock diet.

----------


## Ingen

10-20g, that's quite a big tank... I can't seem to find daphnia in LFS anymore, at least not at c328.

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## TheAquarist

Lfs near bedok inter block 416 still selling

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

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## Urban Aquaria

> 10-20g, that's quite a big tank... I can't seem to find daphnia in LFS anymore, at least not at c328.


Yeah, i agree with Bern C... large water volume does help alot in keeping the moina culture stable and growing fast. 

Most of us keep them in small containers, which is tricky to maintain stability (similar to small tanks), so either the yield is too low to be worth the effort or the population bloom too fast and it gets overloaded quickly and crashes.

The best setups would be using big outdoor tubs or water barrels, those that can hold 200-300 liters type (or larger), dedicated to just moina. Can keep a substantial culture going long-term without crashing, and the yield will be enough to feed multiple tanks of fishes regularly.  :Very Happy: 

Btw, for getting moina, you can check at other places like Seaview (mainly during the weekends) or Y618 at Yishun or Hong Yang Aquarium at CCK (they have a tub of them regularly).

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## tetrakid

> Lfs near bedok inter block 416 still selling


Must go.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

Update: Mini Tank X Day 3

My little daphnia pulex. ^_^

----------


## Bern C

Part 2

----------


## Bern C

My Moina in Jar - week 6








I realize Daphnia looks and behaves so different from Moina.

----------


## Bern C

> Yeah, i use a mix of active yeast + spirulina for a combination of growth and to increase nutritional value in the moina (aka gut loading).
> 
> I do find that if only spirulina is fed, the moina will still grow, though at a much slower pace... but with active yeast, their growth rate is significantly faster and if well-fed, can see the population doubling on a daily basis.
> 
> I currently use the Ocean Free Spiru-Max, cost around $10+ for a bottle. Only a very tiny amount is used each time to mix and feed the moina so a bottle of it can last quite a long time (just have to keep it in a fridge to prolong the freshness). I also mix the spirulina with fish food to feed my fishes and shrimps too, so its a part of the livestock diet.


Shifu UA, XD I didn't know there's those specialized for aquarium use, I almost go pharmacy to check out. $10 I think quite worth, =D going to try it as my next feed.

I think yeast will keep on multiplying but spirulina don't, so they will have abundant of yeast to consume compare to spirulina. But I read that yeast has the worst nutrient value. XD So your formula is the best!!





> The best setups would be using big outdoor tubs or water barrels, those that can hold 200-300 liters type (or larger), dedicated to just moina. Can keep a substantial culture going long-term without crashing, and the yield will be enough to feed multiple tanks of fishes regularly.


XD Also can try those mineral water dispenser carboy if able to get them for FOC.



After watching my culture for a while, I realize that daphnia seem like a bottom and top feeder too. I saw them dive to the bottom and pull up multiple times, seem like feeding on the detritus or something on the floor.

----------


## Bern C

Update: Day 4 - An increase in size





Should be sexually matured in 2 days time.  :Jump for joy:

----------


## tetrakid

@Bern C,
Your pet Daphnia are so cute... hahaha..  :Well done: 

Hope some day you will be having this...  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> @Bern C,
> Your pet Daphnia are so cute... hahaha.. 
> 
> Hope some day you will be having this...


Thank You~  :Laughing:  I find them cute too and they seem to be more intelligent than Moina. @[email protected] Hesitating to use them as a feed, as they seem to have some emotion too. Anyway, I read they can only survive for about 56 days. 

Yeah... I looking at the big red boon now. I still trying to dig out more information about Russian Red. I not sure if it's an interchangeable term used in different countries for Magna and Moina sp., or there's another strain of Moina, that is Russian Red. Hahaha, kinda confused by those articles. @[email protected] Need somebody to enlighten.

Anyway, I read that Russian Red can survives up to 90°_F_. It has being breed by Jim Langhammer for 50-60 years, that it has become more hardier and prolific than normal Magna. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...oodl1363799402 

XD Maybe can try Russian Red next if able to get the ephippia. Or Maybe can acclimate Magna to our environment after generations and generations.

----------


## tetrakid

> Thank You~  I find them cute too and they seem to be more intelligent than Moina. @[email protected] Hesitating to use them as a feed, as they seem to have some emotion too. Anyway, I read they can only survive for about 56 days. 
> 
> Yeah... I looking at the big red boon now. I still trying to dig out more information about Russian Red. I not sure if it's an interchangeable term used in different countries for Magna and Moina sp., or there's another strain of Moina, that is Russian Red. Hahaha, kinda confused by those articles. @[email protected] Need somebody to enlighten.
> 
> Anyway, I read that Russian Red can survives up to 90°_F_. It has being breed by Jim Langhammer for 50-60 years, that it has become more hardier and prolific than normal Magna. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...oodl1363799402 
> 
> XD Maybe can try Russian Red next if able to get the ephippia. Or Maybe can acclimate Magna to our environment after generations and generations.


As long as the Russian Reds can survive in our tropical climate, you stand a good chance of succeeding. 
Other tricks of cultivation can be learned or developed.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> As long as the Russian Reds can survive in our tropical climate, you stand a good chance of succeeding. 
> Other tricks of cultivation can be learned or developed.


^_^ Yeah... Hope can get some Russian Reds samples.. Maybe what you saw in he past is actually Russian Red.



Update:
My 4 days old Daphnia seem like carrying brood of eggs.  :Jump for joy: 

IMG_4420.JPG IMG_4419.JPG

Current size: 2.5-3mm

----------


## tetrakid

Very good.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

Update: Day 5 & 6

----------


## Bern C

Update: Day 7
My 2nd generation of pulex.  :Jump for joy: 




All the newborn seem slightly smaller than the adult Moina. Smaller than the newborn hatched from the ephippia.

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## tetrakid

> Update: Day 7
> My 2nd generation of pulex. 
> 
> All the newborn seem slightly smaller than the adult Moina. Smaller than the newborn hatched from the ephippia.


Nice beautiful Daphnias. I wouldn't mind keeping these "Sea Elephants" as pets. Better than Sea Monkeys.  :Well done: 

Be sure I will be your first customer when you sell them..  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> Nice beautiful Daphnias. I wouldn't mind keeping these "Sea Elephants" as pets. Better than Sea Monkeys. 
> 
> Be sure I will be your first customer when you sell them..


Thank You~~~ =D Agree... these sea elephants is more cute than sea monkeys... XD I thinking of getting a jar specially dedicated to them, put some basic soft & hardscape.

XD I don't think I am able to maintenance a culture huge enough as live food to sell. Maybe just a culture starter. ^_^ I will give you and shifu UA some when I fill up my 2g tank with pulex. Ytd, I shifted some babies to my 2g tank as my less than a litre mini tank going to over crowded soon. This morning saw the babies still surviving.  :Jump for joy:

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## tetrakid

@Bern C

Thank you. I hope with all your dedication and efforts, you will be able to maintain a good ongoing culture/s.  :Well done: 
Remember to use distilled water or aged water, as Daphnia are much more sensitive and vulnerable than shrimps.

----------


## Bern C

> @Bern C
> 
> Thank you. I hope with all your dedication and efforts, you will be able to maintain a good ongoing culture/s. 
> Remember to use distilled water or aged water, as Daphnia are much more sensitive and vulnerable than shrimps.


=S Yeah... I hope nothing goes wrong. 

I am hesitating to pour my culture in to the 2g tank as I afraid they will crash then I gotta start over again. @[email protected] So now I will shift bit by bit into the 2g tank so at least I still have a standby culture.

XD I have an Osim upure filter... they seem fine with the filtered water though I rmb Osim manual warned that the filter isn't suitable for aquarium.

----------


## Bern C

Update: Day 9





Pulex is much prolific than I expected. Population is booming and overcrowding soon. Going to transfer 1/2 of them to 2g tank.

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## tetrakid

I am booking that big "sea elephant" at the beginning of the video. I want him as my pet.  :Smile: 

Good progress. All the best.  :Well done:

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## Bern C

> I am booking that big "sea elephant" at the beginning of the video. I want him as my pet. 
> 
> Good progress. All the best.


XD Okz... I will give you some biggest one. Current biggest are the 4mm. They are very good pets, I realize they are more sensitive to lights than Moina. Enjoy seeing them dance around the light. I think around a week time I able to harvest some for you. ^_^

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## Bern C

Update: My new 2 gallon tank setup - Day 4




Still waiting for the tank to be densely filled with Daphnia.  :Sad:

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## Bern C

Update: Day 13





It has almost been 2 weeks and population is still booming.

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## tetrakid

Excellent!  :Well done:

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## Bern C

> Excellent!


=D Thank Q. I think I need 1 more week to harvest them. =( Most are still so puny and the population not dense enough.


Update:

I have decommissioned my 8 weeks old Moina Jar culture and transferred 10-20 Moina into another Jar. The Jar kinda screwed up recently as it got invaded by seed shrimp babies or ostracod. I consider seed shrimp as pest due to most small fish don't eat them and they are kinda big and unsightly. I have no idea how those ostracod got into my culture. I suspected the hay infusion feed but it's only that Jar got invaded. =/ Maybe it's tap water or something. Also, the yield rate seem to slow down after reaching its peak.
I going to decommission my mini tank Moina culture too and maintain a pure Moina culture. =D I'm satisfy with the conclusion of the two cultures.

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## tetrakid

> =D Thank Q. I think I need 1 more week to harvest them. =( Most are still so puny and the population not dense enough.
> Update:
> I have decommissioned my 8 weeks old Moina Jar culture and transferred 10-20 Moina into another Jar. The Jar kinda screwed up recently as it got invaded by seed shrimp babies or ostracod. I consider seed shrimp as pest due to most small fish don't eat them and they are kinda big and unsightly. I have no idea how those ostracod got into my culture. I suspected the hay infusion feed but it's only that Jar got invaded. =/ Maybe it's tap water or something. Also, the yield rate seem to slow down after reaching its peak.
> I going to decommission my mini tank Moina culture too and maintain a pure Moina culture. =D I'm satisfy with the conclusion of the two cultures.


Don't be disheartened if crashes occur. You have gained valuable experience thus far and can ride on that experience for future improvement.  :Smile: 
Ted.

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## Bern C

> Don't be disheartened if crashes occur. You have gained valuable experience thus far and can ride on that experience for future improvement. 
> Ted.


Yeah... I have learned a lot from my failures and others too. From this 2 cultures, I learned that in order to get high yield feeding is inevitable. Their population is limited by the amount of the food. I never change water for both culture but top up, they seem fine. But after I fed them daily, the yield rate seem to slow down after 3 weeks which I believe the water started to foul. The bioload is too great for the BB to handle. XD Still trying to find the best way to culture them.

I think I will be keeping only a culture of Moina now. XD Will be focusing more on Daphnia. @[email protected] Now I am facing copepod problem. I spotted 2 copepods in my mini tank. Tried to siphon them out but they are too fast. @[email protected] The only way I can think of is siphon out all the Daphnia instead.


Anyone have any idea where can I get this Hobby Artemia Sieve Combination or something like this??

----------


## tetrakid

> Yeah... I have learned a lot from my failures and others too. From this 2 cultures, I learned that in order to get high yield feeding is inevitable. Their population is limited by the amount of the food. I never change water for both culture but top up, they seem fine. But after I fed them daily, the yield rate seem to slow down after 3 weeks which I believe the water started to foul. The bioload is too great for the BB to handle. XD Still trying to find the best way to culture them.....


If you have a bigger culture in a bigger tank, it's better to add an air bubbler with a special air stone. The air stone must not be too fine as to produce tiny bubbles that will be harmful to the daphnia. You need to look around for an air stone which is suitable. It needs to be an air stone and not just slow bubbling from the naked air tubing.

As for fouling of the water, it can be reduced by incorporating a separate slow-flow or trickle biological filter which will handle the ammonia produced in the tank. But there are also other things of importance besides these I mentioned.

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## Bern C

> If you have a bigger culture in a bigger tank, it's better to add an air bubbler with a special air stone. The air stone must not be too fine as to produce tiny bubbles that will be harmful to the daphnia. You need to look around for an air stone which is suitable. It needs to be an air stone and not just slow bubbling from the naked air tubing.
> 
> As for fouling of the water, it can be reduced by incorporating a separate slow-flow or trickle biological filter which will handle the ammonia produced in the tank. But there are also other things of importance besides these I mentioned.


Yeah.. I used to aerate my Moina culture but stopped. So far both are doing fine without aerate + filter as I using biological way to keep the water clean. Of course with filter + aeration will be the best but I trying out the most natural and low cost way.  :Opps: 

BTW Shifu UA's Dero culture guide is up.  :Jump for joy:  http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...-Worms-Culture

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## tetrakid

> Yeah.. I used to aerate my Moina culture but stopped. So far both are doing fine without aerate + filter as I using biological way to keep the water clean. Of course with filter + aeration will be the best but I trying out the most natural and low cost way.


The most natural way is in shallow ponds (oxygenation) and decaying animal faeces (bacteria). 
Without good aeration, a big culture in a container is sure to be oxygen starved. 
Not only the daphnia will starved of oxygen nut also all organisms within the container. 
So aeration is a must. But won't cost much as it is just a *tiny* pump with a course air stone running *slow*.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Anyone have any idea where can I get this Hobby Artemia Sieve Combination or something like this??


You can try the zooplankton sieve sets that come with different sized micron sieves in separate caps... looks something like these:





Photos from eBay.

I've ordered a set from online sellers before, here is a eBay search link to some sellers:

http://www.ebay.com.sg/sch/i.html?_o...sieve&_sacat=0

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## Bern C

> The most natural way is in shallow ponds (oxygenation) and decaying animal faeces (bacteria). 
> Without good aeration, a big culture in a container is sure to be oxygen starved. 
> Not only the daphnia will starved of oxygen nut also all organisms within the container. 
> So aeration is a must. But won't cost much as it is just a *tiny* pump with a course air stone running *slow*.


XD I using natural aeration, algae and hornwort seem to do the work. But the problem with algae pearling is that the bubble is quite fine. I saw a few daphnia tail got caught by the bubble. It didn't kill them, but they will swim awkwardly and try to free itself from the bubble which eventually did after a few attempts.
I also did tried to closing the lid of the Jar but not airtight, my Moina no change at all and didn't produce extra hemoglobin. =( I kinda disappointed also as I want them to turn red so they will have higher protein content.

Yeah~ I absolutely agree with you but I trying to make my culture as simple as possible at the same time trying to make them hardier. XD I just started another culture using 32cm x 19cm non-airtight container with cover. I see how will they do with a little air exchange. 
Next, I thinking of modify the container and add some a solar fan. Basically the fan will be inside the covered container and will be activated when there's direct sunlight shining on the container. XD kinda weird idea.





> You can try the zooplankton sieve sets that come with different sized micron sieves in separate caps... looks something like these:
> 
> I've ordered a set from online sellers before, here is a eBay search link to some sellers:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.sg/sch/i.html?_o...sieve&_sacat=0



Many many thanks. =D

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## Bern C

Update: New Moina culture - Day 4 (22/07/15)





 :Shocked:  I am kinda surprise on Moina hardiness as I have reduce the amount of air exchange but they are not producing extra Hemoglobin. More need to be done or... XD maybe airtight next.

As for Daphnia, I can see some of my Daphnia in the non-airtight container turning slightly red but they are still growing.

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## Bern C

Update: 2g tank

 :Crying:  My 2g tank has failed me. It got invaded by seed shrimps!! It's not as prolific, currently having like only 20-30 adults and around 50 babies. I am facing my same old yeast problem again. I have no idea why whenever I feed them yeast, my Moina and Daphnia will get itself stuck on the wall and unable to escape. I have no idea if it's yeast that caused the films on the wall. =( Still exploring the fed for Daphnia. 



@Shifu Tetrakid,
Do you want some of my Daphnia adult from my 2g tank? Currently I can only provide u like 20 adults. For babies, can provide you more if you don't mind it might contaminated by babies seed shrimp & copepod. I planning to reset my 2gallon tank. I will be sieving out the adults from the babies & other crustacean then do it again when the babies grow bigger. I currently have 2 mini tank and will be using the one free from contamination to restart my 2g tank. XD Hopefully my 30x19cm container are not been contaminated too though I have being taking extra precaution.

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## tetrakid

> Update: 2g tank
> 
> ...I am facing my same old yeast problem again. I have no idea why whenever I feed them yeast, my Moina and Daphnia will get itself stuck on the wall and unable to escape. I have no idea if it's yeast that caused the films on the wall...
> 
> @Shifu Tetrakid,
> Do you want some of my Daphnia adult from my 2g tank? Currently I can only provide u like 20 adults. For babies, can provide you more if you don't mind it might contaminated by babies seed shrimp & copepod. I planning to reset my 2gallon tank. I will be sieving out the adults from the babies & other crustacean then do it again when the babies grow bigger. I currently have 2 mini tank and will be using the one free from contamination to restart my 2g tank. XD Hopefully my 30x19cm container are not been contaminated too though I have being taking extra precaution.




不敢当 - bù găndāng ... Thank you Bern, you flatter me, I am just a greenhorn in aquatics, lol...  :Smile: 

Not right now, as I am overloaded with other tasks, maybe later on. But be sure, I am giving you my full moral support on your Daphnia experimenting, etc.
Looking forward to the day when your culture is dense and thriving.  :Well done:

----------


## Bern C

> 不敢当 - bù găndāng ... Thank you Bern, you flatter me, I am just a greenhorn in aquatics, lol... 
> 
> Not right now, as I am overloaded with other tasks, maybe later on. But be sure, I am giving you my full moral support on your Daphnia experimenting, etc.
> Looking forward to the day when your culture is dense and thriving.


 :Smile: Those who teaches = my teacher. XD You are being humble.
Oh... Then I will quarantine them and use it on other experiment. =D I think it's also better for me to maintain a cleaner culture before giving out.

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## tetrakid

> Those who teaches = my teacher. XD You are being humble.
> Oh... Then I will quarantine them and use it on other experiment. =D I think it's also better for me to maintain a cleaner culture before giving out.


It's important to have a few cultures going, Bern. Crashes are inevitable, so always have backups to enable you to continue your experimentation.
I think oxygenation and regulated feeding are the most important factors for Daphnia. 

To master Daphnia culturing, you need to concentrate on Daphnia, and forget about keeping fish for the time being.
This is because there are many sensitive variables, so it is more demanding than fish-keeping or Dero worm culturing. 
If you succeed in maintaining and repeating a huge Daphnia culture, that will be a big and valuable achievement for you.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> It's important to have a few cultures going, Bern. Crashes are inevitable, so always have backups to enable you to continue your experimentation.
> I think oxygenation and regulated feeding are the most important factors for Daphnia. 
> 
> To master Daphnia culturing, you need to concentrate on Daphnia, and forget about keeping fish for the time being.
> This is because there are many sensitive variables, so it is more demanding than fish-keeping or Dero worm culturing. 
> If you succeed in maintaining and repeating a huge Daphnia culture, that will be a big and valuable achievement for you.


Yeah, you got the point. It depends on what kind of methods, some won't crash easily or can sustain for very very long but the yield rate might not be as high. Some with high yield rate but crash fast.

 :Crying:  Now my problem isn't Daphnia not producing but the adults + some youth are getting itself stuck on the wall and died. At first I thought they were molting but later realized it shouldn't take like 1hr. I believe it's the yeast that caused some kind of film building up on the wall. Maybe CO2 from the yeast increases the growth rate of some kind of algae or fungus.

Anyway I have decomm my 2gallon tank. Drying that tank now and will be starting new culture tmr. I will make the setup very simple this time and experiment on high yield method. @[email protected] And now I have like 1 more extra babies culture which is a tedious work to separate them from the contamination.

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## tetrakid

@Bern C

You are on the right track, Bern. High yield is the way to go. 

Keep going till you find the solution to the 'sticky' problem. I don't know the reason for that but I have no doubt the answer can be found somewhere.

Hope one day I will be able to pat your shoulder and say to you, "You are can". 
I have faith in you. You rock!  :Well done:

----------


## Bern C

> @Bern C
> 
> You are on the right track, Bern. High yield is the way to go. 
> 
> Keep going till you find the solution to the 'sticky' problem. I don't know the reason for that but I have no doubt the answer can be found somewhere.
> 
> Hope one day I will be able to pat your shoulder and say to you, "You are can". 
> I have faith in you. You rock!


Thank Shifu Ted~

@[email protected] Now I am exploring fast and cost effective way to culture green water. XD Like many things need to do. I will try to find more info on sticky problem but if can't solve I think the only solution is either use glass tank or fully depends on green water. 

I checked out on my mini tank culture. It's free from contamination and doing well. Has a mixture of adults and youngs. Can start my 2g tank 2day. ^_^

----------


## stormhawk

Be very careful with your Moina cultures, due to our local weather they tend to crash frequently. Many will contain pest species like Cyclops and very tiny worms. This is also the reason why I don't culture them anymore, because buying them is a lot cheaper than culturing them. Much easier to culture Grindalworms and such compared to Moina or Daphnia. In the past, some of the local killie keepers, had tried their hand at culturing Daphnia magna, along with Moina and other live foods. Even in cooler settings they crash way too often and produce insufficient numbers to be worth the effort, whether it was Daphnia or Moina.

To culture green water on a bigger scale you will need to set up a small box with a light source 24/7. A set of LED lights will function perfectly for this. There are videos on Youtube that will show you how to set it up. The "sticky" problem you have is the accumulation of a biofilm, which mostly contains bacteria. This biofilm can and will trap both young and adult Moina. To keep the sides healthy you might have to rely on 1 or 2 Ramshorn snails. Their poop is great for the Moina anyway.

As for those Hobby brand sieves, they are not available in Singapore. The best sieve I have came from a dusty Artemia hatching kit from Sera that I found at C328. Right micron size to handle even the smallest Moina or Artemia.

----------


## tetrakid

> Thank Shifu Ted~
> @[email protected] Now I am exploring fast and cost effective way to culture green water. XD Like many things need to do. I will try to find more info on sticky problem but if can't solve I think the only solution is either use glass tank or fully depends on green water. ....


Usually it's not easy to cultivate green water indoors. 
Previously, I had a 2ft fish tank which was placed at a bright window which receives good light daily.
The tank water had turned all green. So, it is a good idea to place your green water tank with some fish in it either at a window or outdoors.
Try overfeeding the fish daily to increase the nutrients for the algae, but be careful not to foul the water too much. 
You are cultivating algae, so the aesthetics of fish is not a consideration. Anyway, fish can be happy in thick green water too. 
Green water is healthy for fish. Small _feeder_ goldfish are ideal for cultivating green water.

----------


## Bern C

> Usually it's not easy to cultivate green water indoors. 
> Previously, I had a 2ft fish tank which was placed at a bright window which receives good light daily.
> The tank water had turned all green. So, it is a good idea to place your green water tank with some fish in it either at a window or outdoors.
> Try overfeeding the fish daily to increase the nutrients for the algae, but be careful not to foul the water too much. 
> You are cultivating algae, so the aesthetics of fish is not a consideration. Anyway, fish can be happy in thick green water too. 
> Green water is healthy for fish. Small _feeder_ goldfish are ideal for cultivating green water.


XD I heard Goldfish like green water a lot. @[email protected] Actually, my problem is the fert. but using gold fish like kinda cruel @[email protected] I don't have another tank and space for goldfish too. XD Maybe you can be my green water supplier.. Hahaha actually you should have taken my pulex adult and culture them in your green water tank.




> Be very careful with your Moina cultures, due to our local weather they tend to crash frequently. Many will contain pest species like Cyclops and very tiny worms. This is also the reason why I don't culture them anymore, because buying them is a lot cheaper than culturing them. Much easier to culture Grindalworms and such compared to Moina or Daphnia. In the past, some of the local killie keepers, had tried their hand at culturing Daphnia magna, along with Moina and other live foods. Even in cooler settings they crash way too often and produce insufficient numbers to be worth the effort, whether it was Daphnia or Moina.
> 
> To culture green water on a bigger scale you will need to set up a small box with a light source 24/7. A set of LED lights will function perfectly for this. There are videos on Youtube that will show you how to set it up. The "sticky" problem you have is the accumulation of a biofilm, which mostly contains bacteria. This biofilm can and will trap both young and adult Moina. To keep the sides healthy you might have to rely on 1 or 2 Ramshorn snails. Their poop is great for the Moina anyway.
> 
> As for those Hobby brand sieves, they are not available in Singapore. The best sieve I have came from a dusty Artemia hatching kit from Sera that I found at C328. Right micron size to handle even the smallest Moina or Artemia.


Many thanks to Daphnia & Moina pioneer~ ^_^ Enjoy reading your old threads and posts.

Yeah... I suspected my Moina I got from the LFS is contaminated. It's really very hard to solve the copepod issue even I reset my culture, I still find copepod weeks later my Moina culture. I think I need to go to the extend of sterilize my equipment @[email protected]?

Regarding about crashing. I have been wanted to ask one question.. How long do you guy usually able to keep the culture running before it crash?? Be it low or high yield. I would like to collect as much data as possible.

Regarding about the temperature, I have been keeping them at the window and exposed to late afternoon and evening lights. It seem like 26-29 is quite ok for pulex and Moina. I haven't go into the temperature vs yield rate yet. I will look into it. =D I hope able to get more info on the parameter from all the culturer.

Oh... =X I think I fed my nerite too much that they stop eating the biofilm....

XD Actually currently I am using kitchen sieve. For now I just wanna sieve out the adult from the contamination cos my cultures got contaminated.

Regarding about the green water, any fertilizer to recommend?? I just bought all purpose fert NPK 14-10-27 ytd then realize it has like 0.05 or lower Cu Fe Zn content which I am afraid it might harm the daphnia. Also I read that I need a NP 6:1 ratio but I can't find such fert. =( I heard higher P will encourage cyanobac growth. I am worry of the high K content too.

Many thanks for your info  :Jump for joy:

----------


## tetrakid

@Bern C
Keeping goldfish in green water is not a bad thing. 
Only humans like crystal clear aquarium water, and they assume that fish also like it.
Healthy green water is a good water state which is healthy for aquatic life. :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Low yield usually crashes after a week. Never had a high yield one before but my last culture was in a plastic tub with some Tubifex worms and a few Ramshorn Snails. The worms were fed with commercially available fish food, usually a sinking wafer but never lasted long since plastic tubs are not exactly the best containers for culturing them. That attempt lasted roughly 2 weeks before I noticed all the remaining Moina were dead, along with the Ramshorns. Something about the plasticisers and lubricants used on the plastic during the molding process. If you have a used tub, that previously had fish and still has algae growing on the sides, that would be the perfect plastic container to culture these tiny morsels. For water changes go with distilled water like what the shrimpers do. A lot less headache and risk.

Last time we used to make the "food" with dried chicken poop lol... smells bad but the tiny fellas liked it. If your fertiliser has Copper then you will have issues with Moina. They are sensitive to metals in the water and our tap water is not exactly conducive for them. In the past I actually tried using this bottled Fiji brand water and it worked for awhile  :Laughing: . I did not keep the Moina long enough to see whether it was to their requirements or not.

In your green water culture containers you should have a source of aeration going on, just to keep the sediment in suspension. Not too strong though. Green water itself is basically Euglena, which in itself is a zooplankton but with the capability of photosynthesis. Something useful here for you to read: http://www.aka.org/wako/~WebContent/...20euglena.html

The easiest is still using a single juvenile goldfish, like what tetrakid mentioned, in a decent sized tank with simple filtration. Place it close to a window or something, feed the goldfish every day and do not change the water too often. Once the nitrates start to build up the green water will come naturally or via an inoculation from your existing cultures. If you don't like goldfish use Tilapia. Same results.  :Laughing:

----------


## Bern C

> @Bern C
> Keeping goldfish in green water is not a bad thing. 
> Only humans like crystal clear aquarium water, and they assume that fish also like it.
> Healthy green water is a good water state which is healthy for aquatic life.


Yeah... XD Now I desperate for easy green water while others desperate to remove them. XD I am looking for ponds that has unlimited uncontaminated green water which I can get FOC. I believe some of my copepod came from the contaminated green water sample.




> Low yield usually crashes after a week. Never had a high yield one before but my last culture was in a plastic tub with some Tubifex worms and a few Ramshorn Snails. The worms were fed with commercially available fish food, usually a sinking wafer but never lasted long since plastic tubs are not exactly the best containers for culturing them. That attempt lasted roughly 2 weeks before I noticed all the remaining Moina were dead, along with the Ramshorns. Something about the plasticisers and lubricants used on the plastic during the molding process. If you have a used tub, that previously had fish and still has algae growing on the sides, that would be the perfect plastic container to culture these tiny morsels. For water changes go with distilled water like what the shrimpers do. A lot less headache and risk.
> 
> Last time we used to make the "food" with dried chicken poop lol... smells bad but the tiny fellas liked it. If your fertiliser has Copper then you will have issues with Moina. They are sensitive to metals in the water and our tap water is not exactly conducive for them. In the past I actually tried using this bottled Fiji brand water and it worked for awhile . I did not keep the Moina long enough to see whether it was to their requirements or not.
> 
> In your green water culture containers you should have a source of aeration going on, just to keep the sediment in suspension. Not too strong though. Green water itself is basically Euglena, which in itself is a zooplankton but with the capability of photosynthesis. Something useful here for you to read: http://www.aka.org/wako/~WebContent/Articles/culturing%20euglena.html
> 
> The easiest is still using a single juvenile goldfish, like what tetrakid mentioned, in a decent sized tank with simple filtration. Place it close to a window or something, feed the goldfish every day and do not change the water too often. Once the nitrates start to build up the green water will come naturally or via an inoculation from your existing cultures. If you don't like goldfish use Tilapia. Same results.


I think the best is glass container or plastic aquarium. I currently tried plastic container from daiso and lucky it do works though after washing I can find that the surface is super slippy which at first I suspect there might be a layer of by-products.

When I just started, I though that Moina is very sensitive as it crashed in days then 1 week. But later I realized the main killers are overpopulation and overfeeding. I stopped using mineral water or distilled water as I realized that they able to survive on Osim u2pure filtered water. XD I thinking of using tap water next. But I not sure if it will affect the reproduction or not.

=( But I don't have tank and probably very troublesome for me to setup the aeration. So kinda cruel to keep them in small container w/o aeration so this option is out. I currently have 2 bottle under led and aeration but w/o the box. The other 2 under outdoor sunlight. @[email protected] But the result isn't so good, take like weeks to get green.

Now have successful setup 2month long very low yield sustainable culture. Now I planning to setup fast yield but kinda waste lot of water method. Like start from small container then after a week, change to a bigger container with fresh water and bigger and so on till like 5-10gallon tank then restart from step one again.

Do you think it's a good idea to get some phytoplankton culture online?? But the small sample cost quite some $$. =(

BTW do you wanna try some pulex culture? But I can only provide you small starter only as my culture is limited. Currently only have like 100 pulex only  :Crying:

----------


## fireblade

I have green water but no daphnia to try..  :Sad:

----------


## stormhawk

@Bern

It is just not worth it to buy the phytoplankton thing into Singapore. Most of the sellers are located in the US and it takes roughly 2 weeks for any package to get here, unless you feel rich and want it in less than a week. IMO, just too expensive to even consider. Thank you for the D. pulex offer but I lack space right now so all my live food cultures are for the time being, gone.

If you want something easier to handle compared to Moina and just as good for your fish, try the Dero worms from Urban or find a grindal worm seller. These grindals love our climate and they are easy to maintain. Only problem is, just as easy to forget about them.  :Laughing:  One of my cultures crashed because I overfed the worms with fish food. Now all gone.

For what it's worth, the only live food I ever successfully shipped in from overseas was a set of microworms, bananaworms and walterworms. 3 different sizes of really puny worms, great for tiny fry. Problem was, the cultures exploded within a day or two from subculture and in our heat, they just boom in numbers. Unfortunately, their nutrition value is not really good as a primary food source, except for the first 2-3 days for a typical fish fry.

----------


## Bern C

> I have green water but no daphnia to try..


XD Can I trade 20 Adult pulex + some babies for your 500ml of green water??




> @Bern
> 
> It is just not worth it to buy the phytoplankton thing into Singapore. Most of the sellers are located in the US and it takes roughly 2 weeks for any package to get here, unless you feel rich and want it in less than a week. IMO, just too expensive to even consider. Thank you for the D. pulex offer but I lack space right now so all my live food cultures are for the time being, gone.
> 
> If you want something easier to handle compared to Moina and just as good for your fish, try the Dero worms from Urban or find a grindal worm seller. These grindals love our climate and they are easy to maintain. Only problem is, just as easy to forget about them.  One of my cultures crashed because I overfed the worms with fish food. Now all gone.
> 
> For what it's worth, the only live food I ever successfully shipped in from overseas was a set of microworms, bananaworms and walterworms. 3 different sizes of really puny worms, great for tiny fry. Problem was, the cultures exploded within a day or two from subculture and in our heat, they just boom in numbers. Unfortunately, their nutrition value is not really good as a primary food source, except for the first 2-3 days for a typical fish fry.


 :Sad:  That is what I am thinking also and worry that the phytoplankton culture isn't doing well. Actually I have Dero but XD My dero worms culture crashed too due to my negligent. Hahaha.. Too focus on pulex. Ytd I have fished out some of my Dero from my 2g tank and going to start a small culture. I doubt I will culture them together with Daphnia as it going to crash with my plan and make my water change more troublesome. I find that my pulex are more prolific than Dero but now the problem is some dying adult + some young.  :Knockout:  Pulex needs 4-8 days to reach it max size.

No problem and feel free to PM me if you want some Pulex. Thanks for all your valuable knowledge, ^_^ Will look into other worms once I am done with my Daphnia culture.

----------


## fireblade

think I can supply you 20 litres of green water  :Smile:  only problem is place of collection 




> XD Can I trade 20 Adult pulex + some babies for your 500ml of green water??
> 
> 
> 
>  That is what I am thinking also and worry that the phytoplankton culture isn't doing well. Actually I have Dero but XD My dero worms culture crashed too due to my negligent. Hahaha.. Too focus on pulex. Ytd I have fished out some of my Dero from my 2g tank and going to start a small culture. I doubt I will culture them together with Daphnia as it going to crash with my plan and make my water change more troublesome. I find that my pulex are more prolific than Dero but now the problem is some dying adult + some young.  Pulex needs 4-8 days to reach it max size.
> 
> No problem and feel free to PM me if you want some Pulex. Thanks for all your valuable knowledge, ^_^ Will look into other worms once I am done with my Daphnia culture.

----------


## Bern C

> think I can supply you 20 litres of green water  only problem is place of collection


XD 20L too much. I think 1.5L will do. I can go collect from you. XD but my problem is time of collection as I only available on fri & weekend. The rest of the days will be after 10pm or morning. @[email protected]

----------


## fireblade

where are you located?
the time that you mentioned are good for me.
after 10pm is good for me too!

----------


## tetrakid

> I have green water but no daphnia to try..


If you need some Daphnia, you should try and get a packet from C328, Seaview, etc.

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## fireblade

C328 sells Daphina?
went many times , they only have BBS...

----------


## tetrakid

> XD 20L too much. I think 1.5L will do. I can go collect from you....


If you are culturing green water algae you must first ensure your culture tank water supports their survival. 
If not, they will quickly die off after you pour the sample in. Green water algae does not simply multiply. They also need suitable water conditions.

----------


## tetrakid

> C328 sells Daphina?
> went many times , they only have BBS...


They have boon but only on some days. Better call them and confirm before going.
As you know, boon supplies are quite hard to maintain.

----------


## tetrakid

> ... Will look into other worms once I am done with my Daphnia culture.


If you succeed, you can just rely on supplying Daphnia for a living. Live Daphnia is much coveted by fish-keepers to pamper their beloved pets.

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## Bern C

> where are you located?
> the time that you mentioned are good for me.
> after 10pm is good for me too!


Near Central; Whampoa. What about you? XD Don't tell me it's west.
Is your green water contaminated with zooplankton like ostracod or copepod??




> If you are culturing green water algae you must first ensure your culture tank water supports their survival. 
> If not, they will quickly die off after you pour the sample in. Green water algae does not simply multiply. They also need suitable water conditions.


Noted. Thanks for your tips. ^_^ I will separate the culture and try it with tap water 1st.

----------


## fireblade

my tank water is always green green this is a less than 1 feet tank.. and cannot see the bottom.. :P

----------


## Bern C

:Laughing:  That is really yummy green.

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## tetrakid

> ... I will separate the culture and try it with tap water 1st.


It might not work with new tap water for culturing green water algae. Better to start with some old aquarium water.
Also, it is not a good idea to experiment Daphnia with tap water. It will never work.
Daphnia are well known for their sensitivity, hence they are also used by water authorities to detect impurities, contaminants, etc.

----------


## tetrakid

> That is really yummy green.


Yes, your aim must be to develop a tank like that in order to sustain your Daphnia culture indefinitely.
Previously, I had used 10x Rosy Barbs kept in very green water too.

----------


## fireblade

must have constant sunlight...  :Smile:  
my smallest guppy tank with only some monte carlo inside have green water after 2 days of 100% water change...

----------


## Bern C

> It might not work with new tap water for culturing green water algae. Better to start with some old aquarium water.
> Also, it is not a good idea to experiment Daphnia with tap water. It will never work.
> Daphnia are well known for their sensitivity, hence they are also used by water authorities to detect impurities, contaminants, etc.


XD I tried culture Moina in tap water before and they managed to survive. I think the amount of chlorine and impurities in my tap water are too small to kill them but maybe affect their reproduction initially??

I am not using my tank water due to contamination. @[email protected] Can use but gotta filter it. I will try 1 bottle of tap water then another bottle of filtered water and see the result.
XD I really have no luck in green water. I overfed and didn't WC for weeks but don't recall I have green water before but wall algae.

----------


## tetrakid

> XD I really have no luck in green water. I overfed and didn't WC for weeks but don't recall I have green water before but wall algae.


First, the water condition must be ready for green water algae. Then only introduce a starter culture of the said algae, but not before that.
If you just introduce a culture sample into water which is not 'up to standard', the green water algae will simply die instead of propagating.
Sufficient nitrates is required, but other factors are also needed. It is a delicate balance. Even after green water is produced, there is also 
the need to ensure that it (the green water algae) doesn't crash.

Also, for Daphnia culturing, before going into further experimentation, it is absolutely necessary to stick to fundamentals principles first. 
Like never use raw tap water, no matter how impressed you are with it. 

Also, culturing Daphnia calls for even more stringent water control than for fish. Measuring all water parameters is even more critical than for keeping fish.
Thus, culturing Daphnia is extremely demanding in terms of knowledge and technique.

The expense of a comprehensive water testing kit is a must for cultivating these adorable "sea elephants".
I am not into culturing Daphnia, but just offering my 2 cents worth of views. Hope it helps.  :Smile:   :Surprised:   :Roll Eyes:

----------


## tetrakid

> Previously, I had used 10x Rosy Barbs kept in very green water too.


I forgot to mention that I had fed those fish in the green water tank with Tubifex.

----------


## Bern C

> First, the water condition must be ready for green water algae. Then only introduce a starter culture of the said algae, but not before that.
> If you just introduce a culture sample into water which is not 'up to standard', the green water algae will simply die instead of propagating.
> Sufficient nitrates is required, but other factors are also needed. It is a delicate balance. Even after green water is produced, there is also 
> the need to ensure that it (the green water algae) doesn't crash.
> 
> Also, for Daphnia culturing, before going into further experimentation, it is absolutely necessary to stick to fundamentals principles first. 
> Like never use raw tap water, no matter how impressed you are with it. 
> 
> Also, culturing Daphnia calls for even more stringent water control than for fish. Measuring all water parameters is even more critical than for keeping fish.
> ...


I remembering reading it's all due to the nutrients ratio NPK. XD Need to do more research about it. Also it must not be contaminated by bacteria else will get brown water or something. @[email protected]

Yeah, absolutely agree with you. And also patient too... Daphnia reproduction is fast but need longer time to upsize compare to Moina. Magna or Russian Red should be worst. 
XD I am trying their hardiness actually also trying increase their hardiness so maybe can have a strong strain of Daphnia. I usually will add some unfiltered tap water into the fed mixture.



Update on my cultures:

Mini Tank X - Day 22 
Longest running culture that I hatched them from the eggs. This tank is getting messy and invaded by copepod. I'm going to reset this tank once it reach a month old. Will separate the adults from the contamination to start another culture. 

Mini Tank Y - Day 7 
Started this culture on 19/07/15 due to the contamination of my Mini Tank X. Started with 10 Pulex. 

The last culture is babies of my failed 2 gallon tank which contaminated with Ostracod & Copepod. I segregated and quarantined the adults of my 2 gallon tank and will do it again to this culture till I free the Pulex from contamination.





XD My Daphnia Hatchery is really messy now. Yeah... I think I am right about the byproduct of yeast increasing the growth of the algae and biofilm on the wall that trap my Daphnia. Hair algae is growing on the wall now.

----------


## tetrakid

> I remembering reading it's all due to the nutrients ratio NPK. XD Need to do more research about it. Also it must not be contaminated by bacteria else will get brown water or something. @[email protected]
> 
> ....XD I am trying their hardiness actually also trying increase their hardiness so maybe can have a strong strain of Daphnia. I usually will add some unfiltered tap water into the fed mixture.
> 
> Update on my cultures:
> 
> Mini Tank X - Day 22 
> Longest running culture that I hatched them from the eggs. This tank is getting messy and invaded by copepod. I'm going to reset this tank once it reach a month old. Will separate the adults from the contamination to start another culture. 
> Mini Tank Y - Day 7 
> ...


It's all a worthwhile adventure, Bern.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> It's all a worthwhile adventure, Bern.


XD I am like crazy culturer... trying all kind of weird stuff. =X On the process of making super daphnian soldiers.


Here's my 1st update on my non-airtight container:

An experiment on Daphnia Pulex in a non aerated and non-airtight covered container.
Started this culture on 19/07/15 with 20 Daphnia. It seem like they're able to do well in a low air exchange container. They started to produce more Hemoglobin in 1-3 days time. I saw a population increase on the 3rd days onward.

----------


## Bern C

I edited the vid and here's the new vid.

----------


## fireblade

sorry missed out this posting..
I stay near Tiong Bahru MRT..
Actually I am not very sure if they are contaminated... that is my betta fry water...
whether you are still interested or not, please let me know as I might be changing their water totally soon...



> Near Central; Whampoa. What about you? XD Don't tell me it's west.
> Is your green water contaminated with zooplankton like ostracod or copepod??
> 
> 
> 
> Noted. Thanks for your tips. ^_^ I will separate the culture and try it with tap water 1st.

----------


## tetrakid

> sorry missed out this posting..
> I stay near Tiong Bahru MRT..
> Actually I am not very sure if they are contaminated... that is my betta fry water...
> whether you are still interested or not, please let me know as I might be changing their water totally soon...


@Bern C
I suggest you get the green water sample from @fireblade and try it out for experience, as it may not be easy to get another sample.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> sorry missed out this posting..
> I stay near Tiong Bahru MRT..
> Actually I am not very sure if they are contaminated... that is my betta fry water...
> whether you are still interested or not, please let me know as I might be changing their water totally soon...





> @Bern C
> I suggest you get the green water sample from @fireblade and try it out for experience, as it may not be easy to get another sample.


^_^ Yeah I am still interested. I will just filter and quarantine them for a while before using so shouldn't be a issue.
Can I meet you on Friday anytime from 2pm to 7pm(or later also can.. I will just go walk walk) as I am going Bt Merah for some errands.

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## fireblade

Bern C, I have PM you.

how long can green water last in a sealed container?
if can last , I can siphon the water out the night before and then put in a container.

----------


## tetrakid

> Bern C, I have PM you.
> 
> how long can green water last in a sealed container?
> if can last , I can siphon the water out the night before and then put in a container.


The algae should be able to survive for a couple of days in the same water. 
A 1.5L (drinking water/mineral water bottle) or 2L (milk) bottle should be okay.

----------


## Bern C

> Bern C, I have PM you.
> 
> how long can green water last in a sealed container?
> if can last , I can siphon the water out the night before and then put in a container.





> The algae should be able to survive for a couple of days in the same water. 
> A 1.5L (drinking water/mineral water bottle) or 2L (milk) bottle should be okay.


Yeah... they can survive in a sealed bottle as they do respire. ^_^ Many thanks for your green water.

@fireblade,
XD Your mailbox full so I will reply here: "Ok... Sure."

----------


## fireblade

green water for my plants.. :P

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## Bern C

WOW!!!!!! That's lot of green water.  :Well done:  Rich for your plants. You decomm your betta fry tank??

----------


## fireblade

no that was water change few days ago from my angels tank..  :Smile:  that is from a 2 feet tank only.

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## Bern C

> no that was water change few days ago from my angels tank..  that is from a 2 feet tank only.


@[email protected] I want a 2 feet green water tank too. Do purposely make the water green?? XD May I know what's your water parameter, lighting wattage & fertilizer used??

----------


## tetrakid

Try putting your tank with some fish in good daylight or outdoors (no need for tank lighting).
A $3 packet of feeder fish of guppies or goldfish will do nicely. Feed them frequently every day, preferably with tubifex.
With good constant sunlight light, the water will naturally be green, especially with some Euglena culture sample present.
There must be fish in the tank. Without fish it is not likely to work. This may be news but fish love to live in green water.

----------


## fireblade

actually I don't want the green water... but it keep appearing certain time of the year when light shine into the room..

No fertilizer used inside got a few big angels, sponge filter, not sure about water perimeters, water change once every week or fortnight, one T5 4 feet light across 4 tanks, so about 1 feet of light is used on this tank....

----------


## fireblade

hehe this thread has diverted lots... maybe should change the title..  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> Try putting your tank with some fish in good daylight or outdoors (no need for tank lighting).
> A $3 packet of feeder fish of guppies or goldfish will do nicely. Feed them frequently every day, preferably with tubifex.
> With good constant sunlight light, the water will naturally be green, especially with some Euglena culture sample present.
> There must be fish in the tank. Without fish it is not likely to work. This may be news but fish love to live in green water.


XD I think I know why I failed to get green water. I used to have a guppy 2.5g tank exposed to late after/evening lights and w/o WC for weeks. Most probably the fast growing plants are absorbing the excess nutrients. The only algae I see is on my substrate.






> actually I don't want the green water... but it keep appearing certain time of the year when light shine into the room..
> 
> No fertilizer used inside got a few big angels, sponge filter, not sure about water perimeters, water change once every week or fortnight, one T5 4 feet light across 4 tanks, so about 1 feet of light is used on this tank....


Oh... I think it's the excess light + nutrient causing the green water. XD Will look into it.




> hehe this thread has diverted lots... maybe should change the title..


Hahaha.. Change to "Daphnian Culturer" but no title changing function. =(

----------


## fireblade

my little betta tank , no extra light and no special things added and it just green up..  :Smile:

----------


## tetrakid

> hehe this thread has diverted lots... maybe should change the title..


Discussion about green water is important for those interested in Daphnia/boon.

----------


## Bern C

Many Thanks to fireblade's green water. XD It's super rich and concentrated green water and my daphnia really like them a lot~

I've split 1/2 of the green water into 4 culture. 1x indoor culture with airline. 3x outdoor - 1 with fert and other w/o. All culture using my 1 week old tank water with super high NO2 & NO3 levels except one with tap water. XD So far the one with fert doing the best. Next will see if the fert green water will harm the daphnia or not.

@Shifu UA & tetrakid,
I think I am ready to give you guys some daphnia, you guys still interested? I just started my 2g tank culture last wed and so far doing quite well, population of hundreds. I have another mini tank almost overcrowded soon.

----------


## tetrakid

> Many Thanks to fireblade's green water. XD It's super rich and concentrated green water and my daphnia really like them a lot~
> 
> I've split 1/2 of the green water into 4 culture. 1x indoor culture with airline. 3x outdoor - 1 with fert and other w/o. All culture using my 1 week old tank water with super high NO2 & NO3 levels except one with tap water. XD So far the one with fert doing the best. Next will see if the fert green water will harm the daphnia or not.
> 
> @Shifu UA & tetrakid,
> I think I am ready to give you guys some daphnia, you guys still interested? I just started my 2g tank culture last wed and so far doing quite well, population of hundreds. I have another mini tank almost overcrowded soon.


Wow, happy to hear that your Daphnia are breeding well, Bern...  :Jump for joy: 
Keep on going.  :Well done:

----------


## Bern C

^_^ Thank You... XD Thinking of getting Russian Red... but I think better focus on pulex 1st and find the most effective way to culture them.

----------


## tetrakid

> ^_^ Thank You... XD Thinking of getting Russian Red... but I think better focus on pulex 1st and find the most effective way to culture them.


Russian Reds will be more demanding. Either airconned premises or some form of chiller may be required.
All in all not worth the investment outlay.

----------


## Bern C

> Russian Reds will be more demanding. Either airconned premises or some form of chiller may be required.
> All in all not worth the investment outlay.


Maybe I will try a small culture?? XD But not so soon.. my focus still on my pulex.

----------


## tetrakid

> Maybe I will try a small culture?? XD But not so soon.. my focus still on my pulex.


That's the spirit, man. Like.  :Well done: 
It's no harm actually, to gain first hand experience. I fully support you.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> That's the spirit, man. Like. 
> It's no harm actually, to gain first hand experience. I fully support you.


Thanks for the encouragement. ^_^ Hopefully able to find a good source of RR.


Here's my update on new 2g tank:

----------


## tetrakid

> Thanks for the encouragement. ^_^ Hopefully able to find a good source of RR.
> 
> Here's my update on new 2g tank:.....


Very good. You can source around for some RR or Magna resting eggs.

I suggest you only concentrate on the arts of Daphnia culturing. Forget about keeping any fish for the time being. except for those in the green water culturing tank. You can feed the excess Daphnia to them to keep them thriving (for the sake of the green water algae).
Acquire the expertise and you will have valuable knowledge and profitable know-how in time to come.  :Smile: 

You may wish to copy down these notes: http://www.marinefreshtropical.com/D...structions.htm

----------


## Bern C

Very interesting article. ^_^ Thanks for the source. Last time I was thinking of using the water used to wash the rice and they seem rich and milky. 
As what I suspected, Adult Daphnia is bottom feeder too. I saw them a few time diving down and up seem like feeding on the detritus.

Currently I using fireblade green water to start my cultures. I think using this way will be better in controlling contamination though it's slower. Also might be cheaper if culturing them outdoor. Cos I am afraid in long run, the fish tank method will be contaminated with the pesky Ostracod. >< I hate them a lot.
XD I haven't test my fertilized green water culture on my daphnia yet. Cos my fert contain 0.005% Zn and Cu. Hope it's not high enough to harm the Culture. So far the ferted green water has the best result but still not as green as fireblade's culture. His is really green... like wheatgrass juice. ^_^ Wonder how's fireblade Daphnia culture doing now.

----------


## tetrakid

> Very interesting article. ^_^ Thanks for the source. Last time I was thinking of using the water used to wash the rice and they seem rich and milky. 
> As what I suspected, Adult Daphnia is bottom feeder too. I saw them a few time diving down and up seem like feeding on the detritus.
> 
> Currently I using fireblade green water to start my cultures. I think using this way will be better in controlling contamination though it's slower. Also might be cheaper if culturing them outdoor. Cos I am afraid in long run, the fish tank method will be contaminated with the pesky Ostracod. >< I hate them a lot.
> XD I haven't test my fertilized green water culture on my daphnia yet. Cos my fert contain 0.005% Zn and Cu. Hope it's not high enough to harm the Culture. So far the ferted green water has the best result but still not as green as fireblade's culture. His is really green... like wheatgrass juice. ^_^ Wonder how's fireblade Daphnia culture doing now.


I mentioned before to feed the green algae tank's fish with Tubifex. Dried food somehow will is not good for growing green algae. It may be the quality of the fish poop.

Poop of fish fed with live Tubifex may be the secret. Supplement the Tubifex feeding with your spare Daphnia. In this way, you don;t waste your Daphnia and enables you to continue experimenting. You can also experiment with a Daphnia-only diet for the fish by eliminating the Tubifex later. The problem with Tubifex is the additional expense and trouble. The fish is there to provide nutrients to keep your green water algae going strong. Without constant nutrients, your green algae culture will perish and crash soon.

----------


## Bern C

> I mentioned before to feed the green algae tank's fish with Tubifex. Dried food somehow will is not good for growing green algae. It may be the quality of the fish poop.
> 
> Poop of fish fed with live Tubifex may be the secret. Supplement the Tubifex feeding with your spare Daphnia. In this way, you don;t waste your Daphnia and enables you to continue experimenting. You can also experiment with a Daphnia-only diet for the fish by eliminating the Tubifex later. The problem with Tubifex is the additional expense and trouble. The fish is there to provide nutrients to keep your green water algae going strong. Without constant nutrients, your green algae culture will perish and crash soon.


Oh~ Daphnia diet only will be a good idea as I know that it's not contaminated. I think the setup gotta very simple without substrate XD I hate seeing ostracod and copepod popping out here and there..

----------


## tetrakid

> Oh~ Daphnia diet only will be a good idea as I know that it's not contaminated. I think the setup gotta very simple without substrate XD I hate seeing ostracod and copepod popping out here and there..


Ya, it's possible to feed with your spare Daphnia if you have enough during the early stage. 
What fish are you going to use for your green water culture tank? Must have fish, if no fish, then no green water (because no nutrients).
Whampoe market has a small LFS which sells packets of feeder fish.

----------


## Bern C

> Ya, it's possible to feed with your spare Daphnia if you have enough during the early stage. 
> What fish are you going to use for your green water culture tank? Must have fish, if no fish, then no green water (because no nutrients).


 :Crying:  For now, I no spare tank... can't use fishy method. My culture should be enough for daily feed of maybe 6 guppies. But.... no tank XD

=X Maybe can try using a bucket then put outdoor..

----------


## tetrakid

> For now, I no spare tank... can't use fishy method. My culture should be enough for daily feed of maybe 6 guppies. But.... no tank XD
> 
> =X Maybe can try using a bucket then put outdoor..


Bucket also can be used, but will be hard to see the water colour. 
Ya, must be put outside for sufficient sunlight. Using a packet of guppies is excellent too.
More guppies is better, say 20x guppies for more nutrients for more green water algae.
If not enough nutrients, algae will be thin. What you need is thick pea soup or like fresh wheatgrass juice.
When your Daphnia culture becomes very dense, more will be needed.

----------


## Bern C

> Bucket also can be used, but will be hard to see the water colour. 
> Ya, must be put outside for sufficient sunlight. Using a packet of guppies is excellent too.
> More guppies is better, say 20x guppies for more nutrients for more green water algae.
> If not enough nutrients, algae will be thin.


But can't have filter or airline XD need to ecosystem. @[email protected] I will look into it and see what I can do... ^_^ Many thanks for your suggestions.

----------


## tetrakid

> But can't have filter or airline XD need to ecosystem. @[email protected] I will look into it and see what I can do... ^_^ Many thanks for your suggestions.


Culturing Daphnia is a dedicated undertaking. That's why I said must forget about keeping fish for the time being and concentrate all efforts on Daphnia.
But in the end it will be worth all the trouble when your system is developed.  :Smile:

----------


## tetrakid

> But can't have filter or airline XD need to ecosystem. @[email protected] I will look into it and see what I can do... ^_^ Many thanks for your suggestions.


The green water tank with guppies in it doesn't need any airline. It is self regulating low-tech system because the eugenia algae is a living plant itself. The developed bacteria in the walls and bottom etc will take care of the ammonia caused by the fish. Oygenation will be very good in good light, while the fish provides CO2 for the algae to thrive.

----------


## tetrakid

> But can't have filter or airline XD need to ecosystem. @[email protected] I will look into it and see what I can do... ^_^ Many thanks for your suggestions.


Culturing Daphnia is a dedicated undertaking. That's why I said must forget about keeping fish for the time being and concentrate all efforts on Daphnia.
But in the end it will be worth all the trouble when your system is developed.  :Smile:

----------


## Bern C

> The green water tank with guppies in it doesn't need any airline. It is self regulating low-tech system because the eugenia algae is a living plant itself. The developed bacteria in the walls and bottom etc will take care of the ammonia caused by the fish. Oygenation will be very good in good light, while the fish provides CO2 for the algae to thrive.


OIC~ Good to hear that.  :Smile: 




> Culturing Daphnia is a dedicated undertaking. That's why I said must forget about keeping fish for the time being and concentrate all efforts on Daphnia.
> But in the end it will be worth all the trouble when your system is developed.


XD So far I have been concentrating on my Daphnia more than my shrimps and fishes. Actually my shrimps & fishes don't require much of attention, I just feed them daily & weekly or fortnightly WC.
@[email protected] Still got many daphnia experiments need to be carry out...

----------


## tetrakid

> OIC~ Good to hear that. 
> XD So far I have been concentrating on my Daphnia more than my shrimps and fishes. Actually my shrimps & fishes don't require much of attention, I just feed them daily & weekly or fortnightly WC.
> @[email protected] Still got many daphnia experiments need to be carry out...


Yup, keep up the good work, Bern.  :Well done:

----------


## Bern C

XD I think I really need to harvest some Pulex this weekend.. It's getting overcrowded.. Can harvest like 200+ Daphnia.. @[email protected] Should I put them on sales. XD

----------


## fireblade

BernC good to hear your daphina like the green water..
hope you have luck culturing the green water..
for me I noticed some dead daphina..
they are still in the container that you passed me.. only difference is adding of green water once every 2 days.
noticed that they are less active and there are some dead body..  :Sad:

----------


## Bern C

XD My green water isn't as green as yours. I diluted your green water with 2 part of water for culturing. I can see the color different on the first week but seem like reached it limitation after that. Yours is like 20-30% much greener. XD

Hmm... is your PH 7-8?? Temperature wise shouldn't be much problem as long as no swing as my tank is exposed to 2-4 hours of evening sunlight. How much green water you feed the Daphnia?? XD I think your green water really concentrated which I actually diluted with some water before feeding.
Try taking a few Daphnia out and feed them like 1 drop of green water daily or 2 day until population increased then feed more. ^_^ Hope this helps.

Try not to cloud the water with green water as I haven't tried weekly feeding yet. For now if your water is clouded, either stop feeding or do 50% WC or add water to dilute it and see how it goes.

There's a few things I usually check for, if there's newborns and if the adult daphnia is carrying white/grey eggs. If majority are producing ephippia means something wrong with the water or they are not reproducing and dying means critical. So far I haven't see them producing ephippia before but only some casualties to due transferring or changing tank.

----------


## DaNny Chong

I search all ang mo kio lfs, all never sell boon.
bedok res rd blk 631 got sell boon

----------


## Bern C

Million thanks for your efforts. My apologies, I took this list from another forum and some of the infomation are actually few years back. So those with the <confirmed> are comfired on Q1-2 this year. Those without XD I dunno if they are selling or if the LFS still there or not. Thanks again for your effort ^_^

Update:

West
-Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
-96 Sungei Tengah Rd (boon)
-Ah Hock Aquarium (boon)
-Polyart, Blk 328 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-194 (bbs)
-Eight Star Aquarium, Blk 217A Jurong East St 21 (boon)
-Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
-OTF Aquarium, Pasir Ris Farmway (boon) <confirmed>
-Sincere, 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
-822 Aquarium & Fishing Tackles, Blk 822 Tampines Street 81
-Blk 85 Bedok North Market (Boon)
-Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07 (boon)
-Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) <last info nov2014>
-163 Aquarium & Trading - 631 Bedok Reservior Rd <confirmed on Aug2015>

North
-That Aquarium, Blk 618 Yishun Ring Road Phone: 6758 5488 (boon) *call before going <confirmed>
-Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon) *only week ends <confirmed>
-Kim Hai Orchid farm, 78 Seletar West Farmway 8 (boon)
-Fwu Hae Pet Shop, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2
-Petmart, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2 (instant bbs & bbs)
-Natural View Aquarium, Blk 684 Hougang Avenue 8 (boon)

Central

South
-Wu Hu Aquarium, 71 Seng Poh Rd (pre-order) <last info nov 2014>

----------


## tetrakid

> I search all ang mo kio lfs, all never sell boon.
> bedok res rd blk 631 got sell boon


It's hard for suppliers to maintain a continual or regular supply of boons because boons cultures crash easily.
Unlike tubifex, it is also rather labour-intensive to breed. But fish of all sizes just love boons.  :Smile:

----------


## fireblade

I've checked with Ben from Wu Hu.. no more selling boon.

----------


## Bern C

> I've checked with Ben from Wu Hu.. no more selling boon.


Many thanks for your update. ^_^

@[email protected] seem like more LFS stop selling.

Update:

West
-Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
-96 Sungei Tengah Rd (boon)
-Ah Hock Aquarium (boon)
-Polyart, Blk 328 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-194 (bbs)
-Eight Star Aquarium, Blk 217A Jurong East St 21 (boon)
-Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
-OTF Aquarium, Pasir Ris Farmway (boon) <confirmed>
-Sincere, 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
-822 Aquarium & Fishing Tackles, Blk 822 Tampines Street 81
-Blk 85 Bedok North Market (Boon)
-Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07 (boon)
-Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) <last info nov2014>
-163 Aquarium & Trading - 631 Bedok Reservior Rd <confirmed on Aug2015>

North
-That Aquarium, Blk 618 Yishun Ring Road Phone: 6758 5488 (boon) *call before going <confirmed>
-Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon) *only week ends <confirmed>
-Kim Hai Orchid farm, 78 Seletar West Farmway 8 (boon)
-Fwu Hae Pet Shop, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2
-Petmart, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2 (instant bbs & bbs)
-Natural View Aquarium, Blk 684 Hougang Avenue 8 (boon)

Central

South

----------


## DaNny Chong

No more natural view aquarium

----------


## DaNny Chong

Kim hai orchid only sell orchid

----------


## Bern C

> No more natural view aquarium





> Kim hai orchid only sell orchid



Many thanks for your efforts. ^_^

Update:

West
-Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
-96 Sungei Tengah Rd (boon)
-Ah Hock Aquarium (boon)
-Polyart, Blk 328 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-194 (bbs)
-Eight Star Aquarium, Blk 217A Jurong East St 21 (boon)
-Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
-OTF Aquarium, Pasir Ris Farmway (boon) <confirmed>
-Sincere, 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
-822 Aquarium & Fishing Tackles, Blk 822 Tampines Street 81
-Blk 85 Bedok North Market (Boon)
-Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07 (boon)
-Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) <last info nov2014>
-163 Aquarium & Trading - 631 Bedok Reservior Rd <confirmed on Aug2015>

North
-That Aquarium, Blk 618 Yishun Ring Road Phone: 6758 5488 (boon) *call before going <confirmed>
-Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon) *only week ends <confirmed>
-Fwu Hae Pet Shop, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2
-Petmart, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2 (instant bbs & bbs)

Central

South 

You mean no more selling at natural view aquarium?? XD I was there last week but didn't ask if they are selling boon. Most of the fish there are Chiclids.

=( Probably the betta farm in Kim Hai orchid nursery is gone..

----------


## Bern C

Update on my Daphnia finding:

1)XD Recently I started to test for NH3 & NO2 and found that my NH3 is 0-0.25ppm but my Nirite is surprisingly high, 5ppm or more. Both 1 week and 1-2month old culture show the same thing. @[email protected] No more NO3 test kit so I don't know about NO3 level, but I suspect NO3 should be low and something must have happened to the NO2>>NO3 bacteria.

2)Daphnia population doesn't seem to be affected by the high NO2 level. My 1 week old culture population still growing. But my 1-2months old culture(2g tank) seem to hit its peak. The population seem to grow at a slower rate and probably going to stagnate soon. So far that culture has been very dense. 1 cup of culture will have 50-100 Daphnia in it. I suspect Daphnia has high tolerance of NO2. Too bad my test kit can only test up to 5ppm so can't find out the max tolerance of NO2. I will do another test by maintaining my NO2 near 0ppm to confirm and conclude on this finding. If no change in yield rate @ low Nitrite level, then NO2 isn't the main factor affecting the population.

3)Bladder snails seem to be doing fine in high NO2 level while my all my newly introduced red ramshorn snails died between 1st week-3rd week. But the red ramshorn eggs still hatching and babies still surviving. XD Can't conclude much now.

----------


## Ingen

After so much work, do you bear to feed them to your fauna?

----------


## tetrakid

> Update on my Daphnia finding:
> 
> 1)XD Recently I started to test for NH3 & NO2 and found that my NH3 is 0-0.25ppm but my Nirite is surprisingly high, 5ppm or more. Both 1 week and 1-2month old culture show the same thing. @[email protected] No more NO3 test kit so I don't know about NO3 level, but I suspect NO3 should be low and something must have happened to the NO2>>NO3 bacteria.
> 
> 2)Daphnia population doesn't seem to be affected by the high NO2 level. My 1 week old culture population still growing. But my 1-2months old culture(2g tank) seem to hit its peak. The population seem to grow at a slower rate and probably going to stagnate soon. So far that culture has been very dense. 1 cup of culture will have 50-100 Daphnia in it. I suspect Daphnia has high tolerance of NO2. Too bad my test kit can only test up to 5ppm so can't find out the max tolerance of NO2. I will do another test by maintaining my NO2 near 0ppm to confirm and conclude on this finding. If no change in yield rate @ low Nitrite level, then NO2 isn't the main factor affecting the population.
> 
> 3)Bladder snails seem to be doing fine in high NO2 level while my all my newly introduced red ramshorn snails died between 1st week-3rd week. But the red ramshorn eggs still hatching and babies still surviving. XD Can't conclude much now.


Good.  :Well done:

----------


## DaNny Chong

As in there is no such shop as natural view there unless address is wrong

----------


## Bern C

> After so much work, do you bear to feed them to your fauna?


XD At first don't bear but knowing their lifespan is only around 2months or slightly longer so just treat it as a cycle. =X I did some chanting/prayers before feeding.




> Good.


^_^ Thanks shifu




> As in there is no such shop as natural view there unless address is wrong


Hm... If you went to Blk 684 Hougang, probably you missed the stall? Did you see another LFS at 684? There's 1 more LFS fish-a-pet @ a corner of the block facing Ave 8 and blk 683. XD When you found this LFS just follow the shops facing 683 and you will find natural view few shops away. @[email protected] That blocks there are quite big, it took me quite some time to walk around the block to find the 2 LFS. Not sure about their operating timing, but my 1st time there was around 9pm and both was closed. Most of the neighborhood and farms LFS close around 7pm-8pm, except C328 LFS, 11pm or 24/7.

----------


## DaNny Chong

I only found 1 at blk 684

----------


## DaNny Chong

Plus i walk around the whole of block 684 only found 1 aquarium shop but only saw 1 around the corner. Please double confirm if i miss it

----------


## Bern C

> Plus i walk around the whole of block 684 only found 1 aquarium shop but only saw 1 around the corner. Please double confirm if i miss it


Yup~ you must have missed it. XD I was there last Thursday evening. Hmm.. probably it was closed when you visit? If you can recall there's some stone table and chairs in between 684 & 683, the LFS is actually quite near those stone table and chairs.

----------


## DaNny Chong

Hopefully. I go around 9am. Mayb haven't open that y cant find

----------


## tetrakid

I also used to like to hunt around for LFS whenever I visit any place. It's quite fun to visit a new LFS which I have not been to. 
But it's quite sad that there's not much LFS in the central area, due to high rentals and poor business in fish hobby. Even those
small ones in the outskirt areas are barely surviving. Pity the owners, as it is very discouraging due to _pai tharn_* and thus _boh hua*_.
(*hard to make, not worth it).

----------


## Bern C

> Hopefully. I go around 9am. Mayb haven't open that y cant find


Probably too early. XD Most LFS open after 10am except those in the market.




> I also used to like to hunt around for LFS whenever I visit any place. It's quite fun to visit a new LFS which I have not been to. 
> But it's quite sad that there's not much LFS in the central area, due to high rentals and poor business in fish hobby. Even those
> small ones in the outskirt areas are barely surviving. Pity the owners, as it is very discouraging due to _pai tharn_* and thus _boh hua*_.
> (*hard to make, not worth it).


Yeah~ Some of the neighborhood LFS are just waiting for retirement... @[email protected] Visit them before they are gone.

----------


## tetrakid

> Yeah~ Some of the neighborhood LFS are just waiting for retirement... @[email protected] Visit them before they are gone.


Ya, Mostly used to be run by Ah Lau or maybe employ a young boy to take care of all the tasks. 
Really this line is bo ho tharn*.
[*Not profitable].
Better to mass cultivate boons and deliver to LFSs islandwide, including market LFSs.

----------


## Bern C

> Ya, Mostly used to be run by Ah Lau or maybe employ a young boy to take care of all the tasks. 
> Really this line is bo ho tharn*.
> [*Not profitable].
> Better to mass cultivate boons and deliver to LFSs islandwide, including market LFSs.


Yup.. probably the easier way out is selling live feed to have a stable income. 

XD I think I going to become part-time snails culturer soon. My snails population are increasing. =X Can serve the dwarf puffer community soon.

@[email protected] My red ramshorn like kinda malnutrition as it has been 2weeks old yet the shell still transparent red and able to see the heart beating.

----------


## antjoey1122

You can find boon in That

----------


## tetrakid

> You can find boon in That


Too far from my place. Hope I can find some boons around AMK / Whampoe area.

My fish have been missing boons.  :Smile:

----------


## antjoey1122

That day I think I see Boon in 181.
You can call him up 1st, owner is very helpful.

181 Aquarium
BLK 233 Ang Mo Kio Ave 3, Singapore 560233
6451 7597

----------


## Bern C

=D Many thanks for the update.

XD Cultivating them is a good solution but a little troublesome.


Update:

West
-Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
-96 Sungei Tengah Rd (boon)
-Ah Hock Aquarium (boon)
-Polyart, Blk 328 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-194 (bbs)
-Eight Star Aquarium, Blk 217A Jurong East St 21 (boon)
-Blk 537 Bt gombak (boon)

East
-OTF Aquarium, Pasir Ris Farmway (boon) <confirmed>
-Sincere, 35 Pasir Ris Farmway 2 Lot E1- fresh n frozen BBS
-822 Aquarium & Fishing Tackles, Blk 822 Tampines Street 81
-Blk 85 Bedok North Market (Boon)
-Ding Feng Aquarium - Blk 84 Bedok North St 4 #01-07 (boon)
-Kohaku Aquarium - blk 416 Bedok North Avenue 2 (boon) <last info nov2014>
-163 Aquarium & Trading - 631 Bedok Reservior Rd <confirmed on Aug2015>

North
-That Aquarium, Blk 618 Yishun Ring Road Phone: 6758 5488 (boon) *call before going <confirmed>
-Sea View(nan yang) at jalan kayu.(boon) *only week ends <confirmed>
-Fwu Hae Pet Shop, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2
-Petmart, 151 Serangoon North Avenue 2 (instant bbs & bbs)
-181 Aquarium, 233 Ang Mo Kio Ave 3 S(560233), 6451 7597(Call 1st) <15/09/15> 

Central

South

----------


## Bern C

:Opps:  This my first time seeing my daphnia culture producing resting eggs. Probably due to cooler weather and forgot to feed them on certain days??

----------


## antjoey1122

> =D Many thanks for the update.
> 
> XD Cultivating them is a good solution but a little troublesome.
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> West
> -Hong Yang Aquarium, 306 Choa Chu Kang Avenue 4 Beside CCK Interchange (boon) <confirmed>
> ...


Bern C, 

Can you share your success story on how do the culture these critters? 

Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk

----------


## Bern C

> Bern C, 
> 
> Can you share your success story on how do the culture these critters? 
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk


Heya antjoey~

=X Confidential...  :Razz:  Just kidding...

I have tried quite a number of ways to culture them.. From feeding them with yeast, hay infusion, potting soil, making dry powder feed, DIY green water, pond water, mixture of above etc.... I ended up with them most simple & basic way... all I need are a tank, dechlorinated water, starter culture & yeast.
I think the tricky part will be starting a new culture as there's a risk that the culture will crash on the next day. Still looking into this issue.

For maintenance, I just feed them daily with yeast but try not to cloud the water. I do keep some ramshorn for tank cleaning and their poop will encourage the bacteria to grow which serve as a food source for daphnia too. I have decide to remove the snails in the future culture as I find it optional and quite troublesome when they poop too much. I rarely do water change. The culture(1.5 gallon tank) from the above video is almost 2 months old and I only did 3 cups of water change + some harvesting which drew less than 1 liter of water with the 2 months.

I also tried outdoor culture in a non airtight covered container that exposed to in direct sunlight. So the temperature could be 30 degree celsius in the day and they survived. I also find high nitrite in the cultures and they are doing well. XD They can be quite hardy or as fragile...

Hope this information helps ^_^ You can back track this thread. It's my Daphnia diary. XD

After regular feeding, my Daphnia stop producing Ephippia anymore after lots of babies seen. XD Will be stashing the Ephippia..

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## antjoey1122

Great insight Bern C...will try something similar

Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk

----------


## Bern C

> Great insight Bern C...will try something similar
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk


Thank you~ ^_^ All the best~


I had harvested all the Ephippia.  :Jump for joy:  




There are some debris in it... gotta filter out the debris.

----------


## tetrakid

Good work, Bern.  :Well done:  :COOL!:

----------


## antjoey1122

Bern C.. I realised you're the person who b started the thread on where to buy boon.... Looks like you manage to solve your own dilemma... Cheers! 

Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk

----------


## Bern C

> Good work, Bern.


^_^ Thank You Shifu Ted~




> Bern C.. I realised you're the person who b started the thread on where to buy boon.... Looks like you manage to solve your own dilemma... Cheers! 
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk


XD Yeah~~ Looking forward to get a bigger daphnia sp, like Magna or Russian Red. @[email protected] But still can't find a good source and shipping is really quite costy to take the risk. @[email protected] Hahaha but Magna & RR will be too big to feed my fishes as I only keep small fishes..

----------


## tetrakid

> ^_^ ... Looking forward to get a bigger daphnia sp, like Magna or Russian Red. @[email protected] But still can't find a good source and shipping is really quite costy to take the risk. @[email protected] Hahaha but Magna & RR will be too big to feed my fishes as I only keep small fishes..


Big Magna booms are great as pets, esp with their cute large 'ears' which make them look like swimming elephants as seen in one of your earlier videos. 
 :Beer Time:

----------


## Bern C

> Big Magna booms are great as pets, esp with their cute large 'ears' which make them look like swimming elephants as seen in one of your earlier videos.


Yeah!!! It will be nice to keep them in glass bottle or jar with some plants and keep them beside the bed. XD Can't wait to upgrade to Magna but still sourcing for it.. @[email protected]

----------


## boofeng

> Yeah!!! It will be nice to keep them in glass bottle or jar with some plants and keep them beside the bed. XD Can't wait to upgrade to Magna but still sourcing for it.. @[email protected]


Hi Bern C - wow this thread is an eye-opener!  :Shocked:  Thanks for documenting so carefully your adventures with daphnia and moina - I've learned a lot!

Will you sell me a starter culture of D. pulex? Whenever you have extra stock? I browsed through the entire thread and still didn't see how you obtained your pulex - did they grow from the frozen ones? 




> Great insight Bern C...will try something similar
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk


Hi ant how's it going? Hope your riccia has flourished.  :Smile: 

If you start some moina cultures keep us updated - I've been doing the same myself so I'm very interested!

I set up a lot of unaerated containers. Some in shade. some in sun. Some with deeper water, some with shallower. I add dirt from filter sponge to some. I add pet hay to some (there is cloudy bloom in 24-36 hrs, + smell). I use blender-ed veggies in some. All with wastewater from tank.

So far everything is not working out more than a couple of days except one bin. It has waste water, fish waste, veggie waste (cucumber, corn leaves, blender-ed stuff). It receives low intensity sunshine. It is shallow water (4-6 cm). It smells of mildly of decay, a little sweet. This one has worked the longest (1 week and going). The others don't seem to work - I think my water gets too dirty and I feed too little. I'm in the process of setting up sponge filtered tanks and intend to start a more regular feeding regime with yeast (Bake King instant yeast).

So I'm relieved. I'm keeping some apistos now and the first brood arrived a few days ago - so glad I can feed the babies this time unlike with the rams previously. They can actually fit the smaller moina into their mouths since yesterday!  :Grin:

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## Bern C

Heya boonfeng~

Initially I tried culturing from the frozen Daphnia but it doesn't seem to work. XD Come to think of it, I was kinda naive. After learning more about Daphnia, I finally understand why I failed. Those frozen Daphnia cubes rarely contain Ephippia so the chances of success depends if there's Ephippia in the frozen cube or not.

I actually got them from Aquabid(US) in the form of Ephippia. At first I was worried that I might fail in hatching the Ephippia, but it did works. Although only 30% of the Ephippia hatched. I still find many unhatched Ephippia floating after few weeks. Probably those are damaged or the condition don't favour them?

Currently, I haven't culturing them for sales and it's hard for me to mass culturing. Sad the say I don't have excess stock now as few weeks ago I have decomm a few culture due to space constrain. The current culture got contaminated by Ostracod(seed shrimp). I am planning to reset them.  :Opps:  If you don't mind the risk of Ostracod, I can sell you a cup of 50-100 Daphnia. I will help to sieve out the Ostracod but you have to quarantine the culture for a while to see if it still got invaded by Ostracod.
Else you give me 3 weeks or less. I will reset my culture and start a small culture for you.

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## boofeng

Hey!

Thanks for sharing about how you got the pulex! You're hardcore man!  :Razz: 

I don't mind starting with smaller cultures, even 5-10 individuals will do - but I think I'll need to get some basic know-how from you about caring for these. I'm having trouble feeding my moina and they crash really fast (I feed veggie scrap, hay, filter dirt - water is cloudy, smells of decay, doesn't really clear up, and moina don't multiply after initial boom of 1-3 days - the "stable" density is really low). I'm looking into aerating my culture bins and seeing how that goes.

About seed-shrimp - I can separate them on my own. I bet it's a lot of work! I would be happy to take the easy way out and wait and pay but I feel I should do the work myself! Maybe we can arrange something by PM? I can pick up from your place weekday nights or weekends. If you have any advice at all please share! I am all ears.  :Smile: 

Agree with you about mass-culture being unfeasible - it's not worth the time without lots of land to set up big systems. I think we're just enjoying dabbling - it's been messy but fun so far!  :Laughing: 

PS - A bit busy with work nowadays so won't be checking forum often - hobby must take a backseat for now!

PPS - Do you want earthworms? I culture two species (I think), Eisenia fetida (red wigglers) and Perionyx excavatus (blue worms). I'll provide starter cultures for free to anyone who's into culturing them. They're easy to keep propagate, but fruitflies are a major problem with my current method. If I had time I would design an enclosure that allows air to flowthru but keeps flies out (and in). There's a product idea waiting to be developed right there.

Cheers
Bufeng (this is my real name - boofeng is just an internet handle  :Grin: )




> Heya boonfeng~
> 
> Initially I tried culturing from the frozen Daphnia but it doesn't seem to work. XD Come to think of it, I was kinda naive. After learning more about Daphnia, I finally understand why I failed. Those frozen Daphnia cubes rarely contain Ephippia so the chances of success depends if there's Ephippia in the frozen cube or not.
> 
> I actually got them from Aquabid(US) in the form of Ephippia. At first I was worried that I might fail in hatching the Ephippia, but it did works. Although only 30% of the Ephippia hatched. I still find many unhatched Ephippia floating after few weeks. Probably those are damaged or the condition don't favour them?
> 
> Currently, I haven't culturing them for sales and it's hard for me to mass culturing. Sad the say I don't have excess stock now as few weeks ago I have decomm a few culture due to space constrain. The current culture got contaminated by Ostracod(seed shrimp). I am planning to reset them.  If you don't mind the risk of Ostracod, I can sell you a cup of 50-100 Daphnia. I will help to sieve out the Ostracod but you have to quarantine the culture for a while to see if it still got invaded by Ostracod.
> Else you give me 3 weeks or less. I will reset my culture and start a small culture for you.

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## Bern C

> Hey!
> 
> Thanks for sharing about how you got the pulex! You're hardcore man! 
> 
> I don't mind starting with smaller cultures, even 5-10 individuals will do - but I think I'll need to get some basic know-how from you about caring for these. I'm having trouble feeding my moina and they crash really fast (I feed veggie scrap, hay, filter dirt - water is cloudy, smells of decay, doesn't really clear up, and moina don't multiply after initial boom of 1-3 days - the "stable" density is really low). I'm looking into aerating my culture bins and seeing how that goes.
> 
> About seed-shrimp - I can separate them on my own. I bet it's a lot of work! I would be happy to take the easy way out and wait and pay but I feel I should do the work myself! Maybe we can arrange something by PM? I can pick up from your place weekday nights or weekends. If you have any advice at all please share! I am all ears. 
> 
> Agree with you about mass-culture being unfeasible - it's not worth the time without lots of land to set up big systems. I think we're just enjoying dabbling - it's been messy but fun so far! 
> ...


No problem~

Hmm... I think 1 possibility of the crash is due to water quality. Is your water too cloudy? Also it might due to overcrowding. I find that aeration is optional and I don't aerate my culture. But it's good to solve the overcrowding issue or using a tall tank or container.

No worry about the seed shrimps, I will sieve them out for you as I have the sieve to do it. XD If you wanna start a seed shrimp culture I can give you some seed shrimps but seed shrimps are more like a pest to me as my fish don't eat them.
You can collect from me this Friday evening or weekend. Or do you wanna wait 1 more week till you manage to maintain the Moina culture for a longer period?? Cos Daphnia is much of a challenge compare to Moina.

Many thanks for your offer. XD I got no space to for wormy culture and now my focus is on Daphnia.. ^_^ On the path to hardcore Daphnia culture.

I will PM you my number and you can whatapps me for arrangement. =D I can also do free delivery if you stay near Novena, TPY, Boon Keng, Farrer Park MRT area or anywhere near this area.

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## Bern C

Any idea if this might be Moina Macrocopa or normal Moina from our LFS(I believe is Moina Micrura)




I think my new Moina culture is different from the one from our LFS. I stopped culturing Moina from our LFS so don't have a sample to compare. Wanted to buy a pack from LFS but run out of stock. Anybody can help me to compare with your Moina that is from our LFS? I need to know if the size exceed 0.5mm. As online articles claims that Micrura(LFS Moina) is 0.5mm while Macrocopa is 1mm. I also have some flashback that my past LFS Moina is smaller, behave and looks differently from my current Moina culture. @[email protected]

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## Bern C

Ok... I managed to get a pack of boon/moina from Y618. After comparison, I am right that my new Moina culture is different from the one I got from Y618. I still not sure what sp. it is, but I suspect it's Macrocopa. The boon from Y618 is slightly smaller than my Moina sp.

Here's the video comparison;

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## tetrakid

Well done, bro Bern. Nice video.  :COOL!: 

With your interest in boons, it is better to concentrate your study on the bigger boons, like the ones in your video.
In time to come, you may turn out to be a 'Boon King' with good knowledge on the local boon scene. Since boons are a product in great demand, you will be on the 'right track'.

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## Bern C

> Well done, bro Bern. Nice video. 
> 
> With your interest in boons, it is better to concentrate your study on the bigger boons, like the ones in your video.
> In time to come, you may turn out to be a 'Boon King' with good knowledge on the local boon scene. Since boons are a product in great demand, you will be on the 'right track'.


Thanks shifu Ted~ 

 :Sad:  My pulex culture isn't doing well and I lost the whole colony. 1 month after they produced the ephippia, my main culture crashed and it crash at the wrong time, where I was trying to setup a spare culture. The sad thing is... I managed to hatch the resting eggs and start a new culture, after realizing the difficulty and low hatch rate of Pulex resting eggs, BUT when my culture just started to produce the 2nd generation, it crashed due to my family member spray insecticide in my room.  :Knockout: 

It's a good things that I have a big fall, as this helps me to realize that how lucky I was when I first hatched the Pulex resting eggs. Now I realize that by rehydrating and placing under the lights will not hatch the resting eggs. There are others stimuli to hatch specific types of resting eggs. I am still doing experiment on the Pulex resting eggs and it's a tedious work. @[email protected]
XD If my experiment succeeded, I will be looking forward to source for Bigger boon like Magna or Russian Red resting eggs. XD Still got long way to go to become Boon King. Hehe.. I looking forward to become branchiopoda culturer.

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## tetrakid

@BernC

It is important to concentrate on whatever it is you are trying to culture. Which means no distractions of fishkeeping, plants aquascaping, shrimps, etc.

Perhaps it would be good to explore boon culture in Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, and Vietnam. I am sure there are many experienced people. Boons is a high demand item on the menu of the tropical fish scene.

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## Bern C

> @BernC
> 
> It is important to concentrate on whatever it is you are trying to culture. Which means no distractions of fishkeeping, plants aquascaping, shrimps, etc.
> 
> Perhaps it would be good to explore boon culture in Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, and Vietnam. I am sure there are many experienced people. Boons is a high demand item on the menu of the tropical fish scene.


Yeah... I am trying to focus on just on Moina, Daphnia & Fairyshrimp. Now I only left with 2 tanks of easy to keep fishes, endlers, cories, otto. 

I realize Malaysia and Thailand have the similar culturing method... culture buckets of green water then add the daphnia into it. XD But what interest me is the recipe for culturing super green water. They add lots of stuff to culture the green water. But this method isn't suitable for me and kinda troublesome.
Yeah.. it good idea to explore their method too. I trying to find more info about their method... XD Any idea where can I find boon culturer in Malaysia.. I think it's worth to visit. I wonder where our LFS get their Micrura culture from too. I think it might be Malaysia?? I realize the LFS near my house get their supplies(tubi, basic plants, fishes etc) from Malaysia.

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## tetrakid

> ...I realize Malaysia and Thailand have the similar culturing method... culture buckets of green water then add the daphnia into it. XD But what interest me is the recipe for culturing super green water. They add lots of stuff to culture the green water. But this method isn't suitable for me and kinda troublesome.
> Yeah.. it good idea to explore their method too. I trying to find more info about their method... XD Any idea where can I find boon culturer in Malaysia.. I think it's worth to visit. I wonder where our LFS get their Micrura culture from too. I think it might be Malaysia?? I realize the LFS near my house get their supplies(tubi, basic plants, fishes etc) from Malaysia.


My view and comments are mainly academic, since I don't do much hands-on activity.

But you have actually mentioned one of the great secrets of boon culture, namely cultivating green water as feed for the booms. In fact I can't think of any better food than green water algae for the boons. Thus you should spend your efforts to become good at cultivating green water algae. It shouldn't be that difficult with the right knowledge.

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## Bern C

> My view and comments are mainly academic, since I don't do much hands-on activity.
> 
> But you have actually mentioned one of the great secrets of boon culture, namely cultivating green water as feed for the booms. In fact I can't think of any better food than green water algae for the boons. Thus you should spend your efforts to become good at cultivating green water algae. It shouldn't be that difficult with the right knowledge.


Agree... Nothing can compare to their natural food source that won't foul the water. But I gotta drop this option as Singapore weather is kinda unpredictable and space constraint. XD Also it's kinda troublesome to setup a hi-end culture system. Probably will be looking at this in the future.


^_^ Some picture of the resting eggs to share. Here's my recent project... 'cracking the eggs' XD

20160509_125829.jpg20160509_131215.jpg20160509_131159_2.jpg

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## Bern C

^_^ Here's my new pet but he is the only one left. XD Last man standing.

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## tetrakid

Is that a sea monkey?
I don't fancy sea monkeys, but I adore the sea elephant which you showed before, one with the big elephant-like ears.  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> Is that a sea monkey?
> I don't fancy sea monkeys, but I adore the sea elephant which you showed before, one with the big elephant-like ears.


XD Yup... but it's freshwater monkeys not sea. This one looks cute too...

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## tetrakid

Coming back to boon cultivation, to be doable, one needs to have outdoor space such as a landed home. It's near impossible to do it effectively in an apartment dwelling.

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## Bern C

> Coming back to boon cultivation, to be doable, one needs to have outdoor space such as a landed home. It's near impossible to do it effectively in an apartment dwelling.


Yup agree... If it is a big scale culturing, a lot of space needed. Culturing green water is out of the question unless building a indoor culturing system. Indoor culturing still able to reach a dense population that is enough to feed the fish. 5g tank can hold like thousands of Pulex.

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## tetrakid

You are right, bro Bern.

But to do it just to feed our fish is not worth all the trouble, since extraordinary care and effort is required. It would make sense only if one cultivated an ongoing dense culture for the purpose of regularly supplying to an outlet or two.

For feeding fish, cultivating dero/microfex worms is the way to go, but not boon.

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## Bern C

> You are right, bro Bern.
> 
> But to do it just to feed our fish is not worth all the trouble, since extraordinary care and effort is required. It would make sense only if one cultivated an ongoing dense culture for the purpose of regularly supplying to an outlet or two.
> 
> For feeding fish, cultivating dero/microfex worms is the way to go, but not boon.


XD I not sure if they are worth or not as I have no luck with dero worms. I tried culture it for a while in a container but I can't multiply them much and had to keep doing WC daily or every other day. But the dero in my fish tank where there's substrate and lot of detritus multiplied quite fast.
As for Pulex, it can go without WC but only daily topup with food water. The problem with Pulex is less hardier than dero. It might crash if neglected for a while, unlike dero where it can survive with the leftover food/detritus. Once Pulex tank is stable and, food source is adequate and constant, eventually the population will stay healthy and dense unless overcrowded. XD I not sure which will multiply faster but I only know adult pulex produce a brood of at least 5 babies every 3 days. It will take 4-5 days for the baby to be sexual matured. For larger sp. of daphnia, it will take longer as it need time to grow and multiply and vise versa for smaller sp..
I am looking at culturing dero again.. XD need some pointers... I doing badly when it comes to worms.

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## tetrakid

@BernC

I should think that once you have the right setup, dero worms would not be any problem.

Maybe you can try constructing a horizontal netting partition to separate the upper part of a 2ft tank and keep a group of cheap fish there. All the fish poo will sink to the bottom through the netting to provide fresh food for the dero worms. Of course the usual filter is needed to keep the fish healthy. Worth a try if you are keen to keep a goodly sized culture of microfex going. But there will be no commercial value due to the ready availability of tubifex.

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## Bern C

> @BernC
> 
> I should think that once you have the right setup, dero worms would not be any problem.
> 
> Maybe you can try constructing a horizontal netting partition to separate the upper part of a 2ft tank and keep a group of cheap fish there. All the fish poo will sink to the bottom through the netting to provide fresh food for the dero worms. Of course the usual filter is needed to keep the fish healthy. Worth a try if you are keen to keep a goodly sized culture of microfex going. But there will be no commercial value due to the ready availability of tubifex.


=D Thanks. I will look into it... I was thinking of using some kind of muddy substrate but too troublesome. What I hate is dero tend to swim around then disturbed. 
Yeah.. I think deros is only good for feeding smaller fish else it isn't worth culturing.

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## tetrakid

> =D Thanks. I will look into it... I was thinking of using some kind of muddy substrate but too troublesome. What I hate is dero tend to swim around then disturbed. 
> Yeah.. I think deros is only good for feeding smaller fish else it isn't worth culturing.


'S' worms (dero) is definitely worth culturing to avoid the downsides of tubifex.

The accumulation of fish poo at the tank bottom will in time become the 'muddy substrate' you mentioned. As this poo detritus becomes inert after breaking down, the daily replenishment by fresh fish poo will ensure a continuous nourishment for the deros. Care must be taken not to disturb them too much. But need to try out to see what solution or precautions are needed.

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## Bern C

> 'S' worms (dero) is definitely worth culturing to avoid the downsides of tubifex.
> 
> The accumulation of fish poo at the tank bottom will in time become the 'muddy substrate' you mentioned. As this poo detritus becomes inert after breaking down, the daily replenishment by fresh fish poo will ensure a continuous nourishment for the deros. Care must be taken not to disturb them too much. But need to try out to see what solution or precautions are needed.


Once I was thinking of mixing in some clay with the detritus as I am afraid the detritus alone will be too light but that is a lot of trouble when harvesting. Then I accidentally tried coffee filter paper as I was trying to filter out my deros worm. So I was thinking why not trying to leave the coffee paper in the container and it will maybe serve as food source for the deros to decompose. XD To my surprise it seem to be a good idea.. most deros did cling on the coffee paper.. XD but as time pass the paper turned soft and partially disintegrated which was a mess. So New coffee paper should be added. So maybe can try your method + a layer of coffee paper for them to cling on.

I find that deros behavior kinda weird... they tend to swim to the surface of the water when disturb when there's no hiding place for them. In my fish tank, I always found them on the corners and slightly above water surface but till contacting the water. XD Then my fish unable to reach them.

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## tetrakid

If there's problem with the S worms swimming up (fish will eat), then maybe a separate tank above the dero tank may be the solution. Then each day, suck up the fish poo with a small airtube siphon into the dero tank below. That should be practical and convenient too. If I culture deros, that is what I would do.

As for using the filter paper as substrate, it can be messy after some time, as they will also become soft, adding to the detritrus bulk. Maybe a better way is to add a thin layer of sand to strengthen the detritrus substrate with more body for them to cling on..

Wonder where I can get a goodly-sized sample of S worms to try it out.  :Smile:

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## Bern C

> If there's problem with the S worms swimming up (fish will eat), then maybe a separate tank above the dero tank may be the solution. Then each day, suck up the fish poo with a small airtube siphon into the dero tank below. That should be practical and convenient too. If I culture deros, that is what I would do.
> 
> As for using the filter paper as substrate, it can be messy after some time, as they will also become soft, adding to the detritrus bulk. Maybe a better way is to add a thin layer of sand to strengthen the detritrus substrate with more body for them to cling on..
> 
> Wonder where I can get a goodly-sized sample of S worms to try it out.


XD I think letting the fish to have some deros isn't a bad idea. It kinda form a good ecosystem.. Dero will feed on leftover fish food and poop and fish will feed on some dero. I think just a fine net to prevent most of the deros from going through will do. 
That is good idea too to have them separated. Maybe can try replace the fish with snails too.

Yeah... the paper will need up become detritus and more detritus. @[email protected] The paper fiber is very light and will be floating around when water got disturbed.
Yup sand will be an ideal solution and tubifex love them a lot. Actually I got stuck between clay and sand. Since deros habitat is muddy ponds... will clay benefit deros more?? This will be my future experiment, whether clay is worth the effort compare to sand.

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## tetrakid

Snails are as not suitable as fish because fish produce more poo if they are fed more. More fish poo means more bacteria resulting from their rotting. Deros eat bacteria. More bacteria will ensure fast dero growth.

A bit of very fine sand acting with detritrus build-up has the effect of creating 'muddy' stuff, but not coarse sand.

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## Urban Aquaria

I think you meant tubifex worms being filter feeders and eating bacteria.... deroworms/microfex eat food directly so you can just keep them in a separate container or small tank and simply feed them fish or shrimp pellet food (best to feed higher quality the food to gut load them with the good stuff). You do still have to clear out their waste and change the water regularly to keep water conditions at safe levels, otherwise their population growth tends to stall. 

Substrate isn't required for deroworms too, bare-bottom containers/tanks work well. Those types of setups make overall cleaning and harvesting much easier.

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## Bern C

> Snails are as not suitable as fish because fish produce more poo if they are fed more. More fish poo means more bacteria resulting from their rotting. Deros eat bacteria. More bacteria will ensure fast dero growth.
> 
> A bit of very fine sand acting with detritrus build-up has the effect of creating 'muddy' stuff, but not coarse sand.


Actually snail poop quite a lot too but might not be more than fish. XD I removed my snails from my Daphnia culture due to their poop causing wanted pest population going up, esp good for seed shrimp to hide and multiply. >_< I gotta keep remove the poop every week to keep my culture clean. @[email protected] Any example of the sand? Very fine sand?




> I think you meant tubifex worms being filter feeders and eating bacteria.... deroworms/microfex eat food directly so you can just keep them in a separate container or small tank and simply feed them fish or shrimp pellet food (best to feed higher quality the food to gut load them with the good stuff). You do still have to clear out their waste and change the water regularly to keep water conditions at safe levels, otherwise their population growth tends to stall. 
> 
> Substrate isn't required for deroworms too, bare-bottom containers/tanks work well. Those types of setups make overall cleaning and harvesting much easier.


Heya shifu UA~
=D Thanks for your pointers. Any idea if substrate like mud or sand do benefit the deros worms? I am thinking of adding compost/potting mix & detritus to clay/sand to make it into a rich substrate for the deros to cling and feed on. XD I know it's troublesome to harvest but I am thinking if it's worth to do so. Like will it create a more stable and/or prolific culture.

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## tetrakid

Wow, it's good that we have shifu UA to guide us. Indeed, S worms don't feed on bacteria but organic food such as algae wafers etc.

@BernC
Have you tried co-cultivating your moina and dero in the same tank? I heard it is a good way to do it.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Heya shifu UA~
> =D Thanks for your pointers. Any idea if substrate like mud or sand do benefit the deros worms? I am thinking of adding compost/potting mix & detritus to clay/sand to make it into a rich substrate for the deros to cling and feed on. XD I know it's troublesome to harvest but I am thinking if it's worth to do so. Like will it create a more stable and/or prolific culture.


So far i've tested keeping them in tanks with sand/soil versus bare-bottom, it didn't seem to make a noticeable difference in their population growth. Ample food and clean water conditions make a much larger difference though, these worms multiply according to food availability. 

Its okay to keep the dero worms in various substrates, just that harvesting them becomes much more difficult... which in turn complicates the whole process. Dero worms will swim and crawl toward foods to eat it, unlike tubifex which bury themselves in mud and stick their heads out to filter feed, so substrate isn't really necessary. Dero worms will also crawl along the tank walls to feed too, they are highly mobile worms that can live on all surfaces.

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## tetrakid

@BernC
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nYzG77usFsk#

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## Bern C

> Wow, it's good that we have shifu UA to guide us. Indeed, S worms don't feed on bacteria but organic food such as algae wafers etc.
> 
> @BernC
> Have you tried co-cultivating your moina and dero in the same tank? I heard it is a good way to do it.


Yup... I did it on my Pulex culture before but it irritates me so I gave up. The problem I face was dero swimming around during harvesting. I tried not to stir the culture too much and cautiously scooping the water but I will end up having some dero in the cup. When filter them through the brine shrimp net, some dero will clings and stuck on the net. It's hard to remove them from the net so usually I will use sieve to harvest dero instead of the super fine brine shrimp net. @[email protected] I really hate swimming deros... they are all over the tank.




> So far i've tested keeping them in tanks with sand/soil versus bare-bottom, it didn't seem to make a noticeable difference in their population growth. Ample food and clean water conditions make a much larger difference though, these worms multiply according to food availability. 
> 
> Its okay to keep the dero worms in various substrates, just that harvesting them becomes much more difficult... which in turn complicates the whole process. Dero worms will swim and crawl toward foods to eat it, unlike tubifex which bury themselves in mud and stick their heads out to filter feed, so substrate isn't really necessary. Dero worms will also crawl along the tank walls to feed too, they are highly mobile worms that can live on all surfaces.


XD I don't mind troublesome harvesting. I read somewhere that just a light stir on the substrate will send deros swimming for the surface. What I hate is dero all over the tank when doing WC and it's a daily water change. @[email protected] The is one of the reason that I gave up culturing deros.
I am thinking of making a easier to maintain deros culture. So I am thinking if substrate will helps to make a stable culture which leads to lesser WC. For the main feed wise will be fertilizing monthly with compost. Supplement can be added.
Another alternative will be auto WC system but will use more water. XD

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## tetrakid

> Yup... 
> 
> ... For the main feed wise will be fertilizing monthly with compost. Supplement can be added...


If like Shifi UA pointed out earlier, that deros don't eat bacteria by filter feeding, then it may not be necessary to add compost as feed. As I understand it, compost is bacteria-based, no? Wouldn't it be enough to feed them with fresh (ie. non-rotting) organic foodstuff?

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## tetrakid

> ... What I hate is dero all over the tank when doing WC and it's a daily water change. @[email protected] The is one of the reasons that I gave up culturing deros... I am thinking of making a easier to maintain deros culture. So I am thinking if substrate will helps to make a stable culture which leads to lesser WC... Another alternative will be auto WC system but will use more water...


One way is to do the water change with a fine net always in place. You the siphon and replenish water through this net. The (big) net can be left in place permanently, and the deros may then also cling to the outside of the net as part of their habitat. Must clean the net though, to maintain good water flow capability, though that may pose some inconvenience with deroworms sticking on it.

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## Bern C

> If like Shifi UA pointed out earlier, that deros don't eat bacteria by filter feeding, then it may not be necessary to add compost as feed. As I understand it, compost is bacteria-based, no? Wouldn't it be enough to feed them with fresh (ie. non-rotting) organic foodstuff?


XD Actually I was thinking of them feeding on the compost just like how earthworm did. The compost will be organic, like what ppl usually use, fruit peels and rotten veggie.




> One way is to do the water change with a fine net always in place. You the siphon and replenish water through this net. The (big) net can be left in place permanently, and the deros may then also cling to the outside of the net as part of their habitat. Must clean the net though, to maintain good water flow capability, though that may pose some inconvenience with deroworms sticking on it.


Yeah... that is what I hate... deroworms sticking on the net... I don't like wasting the life by washing them away. XD

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## tetrakid

> XD Actually I was thinking of them feeding on the compost just like how earthworm did. The compost will be organic, like what ppl usually use, fruit peels and rotten veggie.


Lol, those worms are really making us groggy, with so many species with different characteristics. As I understand, earthworms survive by eating not foodscraps per se, but the bacteria in the soil and rotting matter (compost).



> Yeah... that is what I hate... deroworms sticking on the net... I don't like wasting the life by washing them away. XD


I mean with a correct mesh netting, the net can be left in place as part of the tank. Thus the dero worms can cling on the net as part of their home. Then water changes and replenishment can be done daily through the net. No need to wash the net normally except occasionally eg. forthnightly to clear any blockage as necessary.

I think cultivating deroworms is the easiest to do, besides microworms. It is also not as difficult as moina, as it is not easy to crash.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, you could feed the dero worms vegetable scraps and compost too, they will find edible food amongst all the detritus. Just that there will also be alot of leftover debris which makes harvesting difficult and messy.

Its much easier and cleaner to be able to simply use a pincette and pluck out a ball of dero worms directly from clean clumps of them, rather than have to dig and stir around to dislodge all the dirt before feeding them to the fishes.

As for changing their water, i just pour it out into the drain, as the majority of the worms will be gathered in clumps at the bottom of the container. I don't bother to use a net to save those few that are swimming about, just let them get poured out too. I notice at most 10% get poured out, but 90% are still in the container. Their numbers will replenish again the next day anyways.  :Very Happy: 

I also don't do water changes everyday, unless i'm feeding them alot to quickly boost population growth... most times when i've no immediate need to use them as live food, i'll only feed and change their water once every 3-4 days (sometimes just once a week if i'm overseas, or lazy). Thats sufficient to maintain and grow their population at a slower pace.

The other method i've used to reduce maintanence is to simply put them into a container with larger volume. I've tried keeping them in a 10 liter plastic container (rather than a 1.5 liter jug) and that helps to reduce maintenance by alot. In this way its possible to sustain the same amount of worms and feed them well, yet only need to do a partial water change once a week, and the water stays clean for a much longer time. Only thing with this method is you'll have to dedicate a tank space just to specifically culture them.

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## tetrakid

> ... The other method i've used to reduce maintanence is to simply put them into a container with larger volume. I've tried keeping them in a 10 liter plastic container (rather than a 1.5 liter jug) and that helps to reduce maintenance by alot. In this way its possible to sustain the same amount of worms and feed them well, yet only need to do a partial water change once a week, and the water stays clean for a much longer time. Only thing with this method is you'll have to dedicate a tank space just to specifically culture them.


Yeah! That is the ultimate setup if one has plenty of fish to feed. Thanks to Shifu UA for the tips and pointers. I'll dedicate a 2ft tank for it if and when I do start doing it. 

Presently, I am having problems with my favourite fishes being too choosy with food as they stubbornly refuse all food except dried bloodworms. But then, with dried bloodworms, I am faced with the problem of staleness, which can cause disease. So I reckon the best solution would be live deroworms, as they would be gobbled up without hesitation.

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## Bern C

> Lol, those worms are really making us groggy, with so many species with different characteristics. As I understand, earthworms survive by eating not foodscraps per se, but the bacteria in the soil and rotting matter (compost).
> I mean with a correct mesh netting, the net can be left in place as part of the tank. Thus the dero worms can cling on the net as part of their home. Then water changes and replenishment can be done daily through the net. No need to wash the net normally except occasionally eg. forthnightly to clear any blockage as necessary.
> 
> I think cultivating deroworms is the easiest to do, besides microworms. It is also not as difficult as moina, as it is not easy to crash.


XD I thought earthworms do feed on the compost too? Cos I remember that is what being taught in the school but... haha.. that was very long along.

Oh.. I think I got what you mean... like hanging the net permanently on the tank and siphon through it? XD I am thinking of using a fine net mesh too but that is on outflow of the auto WC system.




> Yeah, you could feed the dero worms vegetable scraps and compost too, they will find edible food amongst all the detritus. Just that there will also be alot of leftover debris which makes harvesting difficult and messy.
> 
> Its much easier and cleaner to be able to simply use a pincette and pluck out a ball of dero worms directly from clean clumps of them, rather than have to dig and stir around to dislodge all the dirt before feeding them to the fishes.
> 
> As for changing their water, i just pour it out into the drain, as the majority of the worms will be gathered in clumps at the bottom of the container. I don't bother to use a net to save those few that are swimming about, just let them get poured out too. I notice at most 10% get poured out, but 90% are still in the container. Their numbers will replenish again the next day anyways. 
> 
> I also don't do water changes everyday, unless i'm feeding them alot to quickly boost population growth... most times when i've no immediate need to use them as live food, i'll only feed and change their water once every 3-4 days (sometimes just once a week if i'm overseas, or lazy). Thats sufficient to maintain and grow their population at a slower pace.
> 
> The other method i've used to reduce maintanence is to simply put them into a container with larger volume. I've tried keeping them in a 10 liter plastic container (rather than a 1.5 liter jug) and that helps to reduce maintenance by alot. In this way its possible to sustain the same amount of worms and feed them well, yet only need to do a partial water change once a week, and the water stays clean for a much longer time. Only thing with this method is you'll have to dedicate a tank space just to specifically culture them.


^_^ Many thanks for your analysis. So in short... A simple system will be easier to maintain but productivity wise depends on how well the culture is maintain, ie feeding & WC. An upgrade of the simple system will be larger tank, auto feeding + WC. Filtration will be out of question as deros worm might not like too much flows. Maybe can try natural filtration.
XD The method I going to try will be eco-culturing but harvesting will be slightly troublesome. Gotta stir and wait a while for the deros to congregate on the surface of the water. Productivity wise... I am not sure unless tested out. With constant food supply and probably adding pots of plants to act as natural filtration. Maintenance wise can't compare to the automated system so the only pros will be... XD it's "organic" & natural system.

I think this 2 method worth trying out. ^_^

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## tetrakid

> XD I thought earthworms do feed on the compost too? Cos I remember that is what being taught in the school but... haha...


Earthworms survive not on organic matter, but on the bacteria in the rotting matter. Since they only attack the bacteria, they will no hue any food that is not rotting. This is something only few composters are aware of, and they keep piling their wormeries with heaps of fresh food scrap and expecting all the the earthworms to come chomping on them immediately. As compost invariably consists of a lot of bacteria, earthworms will enjoy them. As earthworms gobble up bacteria in the ground soil, they at the same time ingest a lot of soil through their gut.

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## Urban Aquaria

> ^_^ Many thanks for your analysis. So in short... A simple system will be easier to maintain but productivity wise depends on how well the culture is maintain, ie feeding & WC. An upgrade of the simple system will be larger tank, auto feeding + WC. Filtration will be out of question as deros worm might not like too much flows. Maybe can try natural filtration.
> 
> XD The method I going to try will be eco-culturing but harvesting will be slightly troublesome. Gotta stir and wait a while for the deros to congregate on the surface of the water. Productivity wise... I am not sure unless tested out. With constant food supply and probably adding pots of plants to act as natural filtration. Maintenance wise can't compare to the automated system so the only pros will be... XD it's "organic" & natural system.
> 
> I think this 2 method worth trying out. ^_^


Yeah, its just a matter of the amount of time and effort that you are willing to invest in culturing and harvesting these live foods. 

Usually the simpler the process the longer you can sustain the interest in keeping them.  :Smile: 

Btw, i did also try adding a small sponge filter (the XinYou brand one with directional spout) attached to the side of the 10 liter culture tank. The air flow was tuned low enough to just create a gentle ripple on the water surface. It helped to further reduce the oily film and smell build up over time, without affecting the worms population growth.

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## Bern C

> Earthworms survive not on organic matter, but on the bacteria in the rotting matter. Since they only attack the bacteria, they will no hue any food that is not rotting. This is something only few composters are aware of, and they keep piling their wormeries with heaps of fresh food scrap and expecting all the the earthworms to come chomping on them immediately. As compost invariably consists of a lot of bacteria, earthworms will enjoy them. As earthworms gobble up bacteria in the ground soil, they at the same time ingest a lot of soil through their gut.


OIC.. Interesting.. So in short they ingest the soil/organic waste and absorb the nutrients from the bacteria? Thanks for the enlightenment. =D




> Yeah, its just a matter of the amount of time and effort that you are willing to invest in culturing and harvesting these live foods. 
> 
> Usually the simpler the process the longer you can sustain the interest in keeping them. 
> 
> Btw, i did also try adding a small sponge filter (the XinYou brand one with directional spout) attached to the side of the 10 liter culture tank. The air flow was tuned low enough to just create a gentle ripple on the water surface. It helped to further reduce the oily film and smell build up over time, without affecting the worms population growth.


OIC.. Absolutely agree. XD I'm kinda lazy so thinking of making a culture kinda 'setup and forgot' instead of frequent maintenance. I thinking of giving the ecoculturing a try if I am free as I recalled I accidentally have lots of the deros in my walstad tank. Probably it filled up the whole substrate. Also there's usually a few lumps in at the top corners of the tank.







Oh.. ^_^ Glad that filter can solve the smell problem and won't affect the growth.  :Crying:  But that filter kinda tall and I got no space to setup another tank for deros. Do you think those small bottom sponge filter will do the job with low flow?

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## tetrakid

@BernC
If you are using a low/short sponge filter, you can attach a piece of plastic piping to it so that the rising bubbles will not cause too much turbulence in the tank. The length can be such that it is almost touching the surface thus creating effective surface agitation for good oxygenation. Good oxygenation and good feeding = abundant derosworms.  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> Oh.. ^_^ Glad that filter can solve the smell problem and won't affect the growth.  But that filter kinda tall and I got no space to setup another tank for deros. Do you think those small bottom sponge filter will do the job with low flow?


The small sponge filter i use is this type:



Photo from Google Images.

Its around palm sized so can fit into most small tanks or containers. I just position and extend the spout so that its halfway above the water to generate the gentle surface ripples.

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## Bern C

> @BernC
> If you are using a low/short sponge filter, you can attach a piece of plastic piping to it so that the rising bubbles will not cause too much turbulence in the tank. The length can be such that it is almost touching the surface thus creating effective surface agitation for good oxygenation. Good oxygenation and good feeding = abundant derosworms.


That is a good idea... It's like a small fountain and the bottom of the tank will not be affected by the strong flow.  :Well done: 




> The small sponge filter i use is this type:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo from Google Images.
> 
> Its around palm sized so can fit into most small tanks or containers. I just position and extend the spout so that its halfway above the water to generate the gentle surface ripples.


Yeah.. I got one of them too. XD But currently got no space for another 2g tank. I can only start a small culture and wait till I have space to setup one with air filtration.

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## tetrakid

> Yeah.. I got one of them too. XD But currently got no space for another 2g tank. I can only start a small culture and wait till I have space to setup one with air filtration.


 Good thinking, bro Bern. All those who intend to continue keeping fish as a hobby should make the effort to have their own microfex culture, due to the unattrativeness of tubifex. Microfex is far superior to tubifex both in terms of ease of cultivation and safety of fish.

As moina boons need too much hassle and they too easily succumb to crashing, it is not worth all the trouble to culture them. Magna or russian reds are not suited to this climate, so should not waste time on it. Microfex worms alone will be enough to provide for our fishes' live food needs.

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## Bern C

> Good thinking, bro Bern. All those who intend to continue keeping fish as a hobby should make the effort to have their own microfex culture, due to the unattrativeness of tubifex. Microfex is far superior to tubifex both in terms of ease of cultivation and safety of fish.
> 
> As moina boons need too much hassle and they too easily succumb to crashing, it is not worth all the trouble to culture them. Magna or russian reds are not suited to this climate, so should not waste time on it. Microfex worms alone will be enough to provide for our fishes' live food needs.


Yeah.. agree. But my main focus will still be on Moina & Daphnia. Deros will be a side culture. I still feel that Moina & Daphnia still worth culturing due to their prolificacy compare to dero.
XD I might wanna take the challenge of culturing Russian Red & Magna in the future. I wanna see if they are able to adapt our climate through a slow period of adaptation. Or probably hatching them from resting eggs might be the key so I am focusing on experimenting hatching Pulex resting eggs. @[email protected] Hopefully I will get a fruitful result.

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## tetrakid

> Yeah.. agree. But my main focus will still be on Moina & Daphnia. Deros will be a side culture. I still feel that Moina & Daphnia still worth culturing due to their prolificacy compare to dero.
> XD I might wanna take the challenge of culturing Russian Red & Magna in the future. I wanna see if they are able to adapt our climate through a slow period of adaptation. Or probably hatching them from resting eggs might be the key so I am focusing on experimenting hatching Pulex resting eggs. @[email protected] Hopefully I will get a fruitful result.


I salute you for your tenacity and positive approach. And I have no doubt about it that with your resourcefulness and continued experimentation, you will somehow find a way to successfully raise a a culture of pulex, or even magna and russian reds. You are presently already doing quite well with moinas.

I certainly would be the first to support your efforts. Like the saying, if there's the will there will be a way. But my previous comments are meant more to remind you about the difficulties to be encountered,

About magnas and russian reds, I think the main problem is the local warm temperature. But I strongly believe that that can be overcome with airconditioning or water cooling measures.

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## Bern C

> I salute you for your tenacity and positive approach. And I have no doubt about it that with your resourcefulness and continued experimentation, you will somehow find a way to successfully raise a a culture of pulex, or even magna and russian reds. You are presently already doing quite well with moinas.
> 
> I certainly would be the first to support your efforts. Like the saying, if there's the will there will be a way. But my previous comments are meant more to remind you about the difficulties to be encountered,
> 
> About magnas and russian reds, I think the main problem is the local warm temperature. But I strongly believe that that can be overcome with airconditioning or water cooling measures.


^_^ Many thanks for your advice. Yeah... It's not an easy path.. I am still exploring all the possibility. XD Currently I am focusing on my new moina sp. and it's much easier to culture compare to daphnia. I think what's interesting will be russian red, as I still not sure what sp. of Moina is it and its size. It might be a hybrid??

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## tetrakid

Daphnia connoiseurs delight in the succulent juicy russian reds. They are the ultimate fish delicacy. Hopefully someone can manage to find a way to make them available here.

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## Bern C

^_^ I started to see some lights in my first experiment, although almost lose hope. I spotted 2 neonates out of 10 ephippia(1 pulex ephippia contains 2 eggs) today, which is the 9th day. The ephippia I used are actually those that failed to hatch in my previous attempts by following the seller/commercial guide. The result compared to the previous attempts is quite surprising. In my previous attempts, less than 10 neonates hatched out of hundreds of ephippia used, although most neonates were spotted on the 3rd day compared to 9 days in this experiment. In the past, there were a total of 6 attempts but only 3 attempts with neonates hatched while the other 3 with none hatched even after 3 weeks.

Well.. this is my 1st succeeded experiment so can't prove anything. I had my 2nd experiments started on 16/05/16, hopefully some neonates will hatch tomorrow. Will do more experiment to conclude the result.

XD Method used classified.

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## tetrakid

@BernC

It's good to see you continuing with the experimentations.  :Well done:

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## Bern C

> @BernC
> 
> It's good to see you continuing with the experimentations.


^_^ Thanks. =( No neonate spotted today. Gotta wait and see. @[email protected]

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## tetrakid

> ^_^ Thanks. =( No neonate spotted today. Gotta wait and see. @[email protected]


Persistence is the key to progress, a la Thomas Edison. Every step creates a layer of new and valuable experience.  :Smile:

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## Shrimplicity

Anyone have the latest list? Preferably close to amk?

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## boofeng

> Anyone have the latest list? Preferably close to amk?


Seaview is the nearest I know to AMK. Only weekends, and the earlier the better. Sometimes sold out. And the longer they've been packed the more will have died in the bag.

Also, update of recent boon sightings:
1. Serangoon North - Blue Paradise, $2 for small bag, intermittent supply (don't always see it)
2. Pasir Ris - feeder fish shop inside Iwarna fish farm compound, $1 for huge bag, available almost daily
3. Seaview - $1 for small bag, weekend mornings only

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## Zep

To add on:
OTF at pasir ris farmway, Opposite irwana - $1 per bag.

Y618 - $0.50 per bag

Polyart at yishun - I have never bought there before but when I asked the uncle he say they sell at $1 or $2 per bag depends on amount.

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## Shrimplicity

Thanks guys!

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## simonchan

OTF at Pasir Ris Farmway confirmed still selling boon today. But only one pack left at about 5pm.

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## fireblade

redhill market sells daphnia too!

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## toolkit

A quick question, what do you tell the shop owner you want to buy daphnia? I mean in chinese?

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## Urban Aquaria

> A quick question, what do you tell the shop owner you want to buy daphnia? I mean in chinese?


Just say "boon"... they will understand.  :Grin:

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## Swoop

> Just say "boon"... they will understand.


i tried asking the uncle from lfs near eunos mrt for "boon" and he asked me what is that  :Exasperated:

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## Urban Aquaria

> i tried asking the uncle from lfs near eunos mrt for "boon" and he asked me what is that


I guess you encountered a "modern LFS uncle"... have to switch to using proper scientific species names, like daphnia moina.  :Very Happy:

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## ZIr

> i tried asking the uncle from lfs near eunos mrt for "boon" and he asked me what is that


Eunos MRT got LFS? Or you referring to That Aquarium along Changi Road?

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## tetrakid

If the uncle is Cantonese, you can try using the term "soi chee". If the uncle is from China, he may understand if you ask for "wen". But local uncles
usually understand if you mention "ang boon".

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## Swoop

> Eunos MRT got LFS? Or you referring to That Aquarium along Changi Road?


Its lakeview Aquarium..nowadays i just buy my boon at the lfs in haig road market

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## tetrakid

> Its lakeview Aquarium..nowadays i just buy my boon at the lfs in haig road market


Is that the LFS behind the hawker centre? How often do they have boons for sale?

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## pym

For me OTF in Pasir Ris Farmway is the most reliable source, but still better to call ahead to make sure they have. Sometimes they are sold out. Or sometimes their supplier in Malaysia did not send any over.

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## simonchan

> For me OTF in Pasir Ris Farmway is the most reliable source, but still better to call ahead to make sure they have. Sometimes they are sold out. Or sometimes their supplier in Malaysia did not send any over.


Yup, ask Mdm Toh or Mdm Chia, give them your vehicle or phone number as a reference. Best to call after 10am.

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## hegemon

recently i managed to buy in OTF pasi ris farm, they have on a daily basis. sea view at seletar is random, 50pct chance and onlyvweelends, slls off quickly.

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## tetrakid

Hi, which LFS sells boons now? I am unable to go to Pasir Ris OTF.

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## M117320m

> Hi, which LFS sells boons now? I am unable to go to Pasir Ris OTF.


Selling Daphnia Magna please whatsapp 97646560

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## marco

Where to deal

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## tigerroar

Saw this thread and was wondering if Daphnia magna can be found in Singapore? I bought some boons from That Aquarium at Yishun but they are too small.  :Sad:  Anyone knows where to get the big boons? Thank you, much appreciated!

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