# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Killifish >  Grindal Worms!

## Bybloz

Sorry, I haven't come to this forum for a long while now due to work... but I come with "good news of great tidings"... I have Grindal worms here in Singapore! Not only that, you might be surprised with what I've done with it...

I have devised a hassle-free, no-peat, and productive way of culturing them, all in little disposable food boxes.  :Grin:  No mess, no smell, and a perpetual supply of clean live food for my fish fry and adults alike. It really is the best thing that has happened for me in years of fishkeeping!



These are the quick facts...

I use dish-washing pads for media.Cut a hole in the lid of the food-box and stuff with filter-wool - for breathing yet keep out pests.for easy checking on the yield as well as collecting the worms, I place a common transparent plastic lid of name card boxes over the media.I 'invented' my own potent cereal mix in granular form which I sprinkle on the media using a 'herb-shaker' maybe twice a week. And it gives me very high yields!I have replicated several boxes like this just in case any crashes, but guess what? I have never had one crash in the last 1.5 years since I did it this way.
And this is a happy beneficiary of the Grindal worms (my latest spawn of Fp. nigerianus Innidere)...


* Due to frequent travels because of work, there are stretches of time that I don't come online nor be able to indulge in this hobby. Apologies in advance if I cannot respond to comments and enquiries in a timely fashion.

Warm regards to all,
Kai  :Smile:

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## TyroneGenade

Cool Kai!

Do you put a little water in the bottom for the worms or do you run the culture dry?

Thanks for sharing, I'm going to give this a try.

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## Bybloz

> Cool Kai!
> 
> Do you put a little water in the bottom for the worms or do you run the culture dry?
> 
> Thanks for sharing, I'm going to give this a try.


Yes, I add a little water only enough to keep the pads moist, but not visible outside it. 

Somehow I can't PM you Tyrone. I've always wanted to thank you for all your writings on your website (http://tgenade.freeshell.org/sitemap.htm), and I mean all, about killies and otherwise.  :Wink: 

Would appreciate to have your email address.  :Smile:

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## TyroneGenade

Hello,

Started my dish-washing pad culture yesterday. So far so good. The worms were alive this morning AND had been eating their food like good little worms.

I added a layer of paper toweling to the bottom which I wet to ensure there is a high enough humidity. 

Your dish-washing pads, did you soak them or just pour a little water through them?

Thanks

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## Bybloz

> Hello,
> 
> Started my dish-washing pad culture yesterday. So far so good. The worms were alive this morning AND had been eating their food like good little worms.
> 
> I added a layer of paper toweling to the bottom which I wet to ensure there is a high enough humidity. 
> 
> Your dish-washing pads, did you soak them or just pour a little water through them?
> 
> Thanks


I pour in water till it almost "bleed" out of the pad. But this has also got to do with how dense/porous your pads are. The denser the more water it holds. Better to determine what is optimal by observing the transparent hard plastic you place over the food on the pad. Too wet and the worms look soaked in water under the plastic. Too dry the worms just feed and hide back in the pad and you can't harvest any. Hope this helps. 

Try it and you will know what I mean.  :Wink:

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## TyroneGenade

Hi Kai,

My culture is doing very well but I'm having trouble harvesting the worms. They don't retreat back into the wet pads but I can't pick them off either. How do you harvest the worms from your culture?

Thanks

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## RonWill

Tyrone,
Take the top pad and shake/rinse it in a small container. A fair count of grindals will just fall off and then watch your killies enjoy the treat.

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## exotic_idiot

Don't you have to wash them before feeding?

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## RonWill

well... I did say shake/*rinse*  :Grin: 

The pad is full of gunk and will turn the water slightly murky. Rinse till clear, then feed. I'd pour this water into my green-water/ramhorn culture to feed the micro-organisms. Your preference can vary but that's what I used to do anyway.

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## exotic_idiot

> well... I did say shake/*rinse* 
> 
> The pad is full of gunk and will turn the water slightly murky. Rinse till clear, then feed. I'd pour this water into my green-water/ramhorn culture to feed the micro-organisms. Your preference can vary but that's what I used to do anyway.


Thanks & sorry for my mistake.. Didn't read properly Haha :Grin: 
So it's your culture stable now? Any to spare/sell me? :Smile:

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## RonWill

I received and briefly maintained the grindals received from Mosiah. When it was stable, I passed it to my killie-backup and he recently re-subbed the culture. Don't think there's enough to spread around yet but I'll check with another friend who has thriving cultures and see if he's willing to sell (even though he dreads selling to local hobbyists for obvious reasons)

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## exotic_idiot

> I received and briefly maintained the grindals received from Mosiah. When it was stable, I passed it to my killie-backup and he recently re-subbed the culture. Don't think there's enough to spread around yet but I'll check with another friend who has thriving cultures and see if he's willing to sell (even though he dreads selling to local hobbyists for obvious reasons)


Yup, i understand and i knew who.. Because i ask him before too.. No need to feel *dreads* dude... Some good, some bad.. But all is equal.
Let me know if you have some to spare, i'll wait... :Smile:

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## TyroneGenade

Thanks for the advice. I will give it a go and see....

Any idea on the rebound time before the culture can be harvested again?

Thanks

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## Bybloz

> Hi Kai,
> 
> My culture is doing very well but I'm having trouble harvesting the worms. They don't retreat back into the wet pads but I can't pick them off either. How do you harvest the worms from your culture?
> 
> Thanks


Hi Tyrone,
Sorry for the late reply as I was away, and will be traveling again in 2 days time (that means limited net access).

If you look at my pic of the Grindal culture, I place a clear plastic cover over the feed on the pad. The worms will naturally gather on it while feeding. I simply lift up the cover and scrape off the required amount for feeding. I don't rinse the pad as I find that the tap water (probably the chlorine) retards the Grindal worms from repopulating.

Regards,
Kai

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## gentle

interesting - where can i get some of these worms and start my own culture?

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## mozaqua

> I received and briefly maintained the grindals received from Mosiah. When it was stable, I passed it to my killie-backup and he recently re-subbed the culture. Don't think there's enough to spread around yet but I'll check with another friend who has thriving cultures and see if he's willing to sell (even though he dreads selling to local hobbyists for obvious reasons)


Ron,

Seems you guys are still in a worm crunch (short on worms)  :Grin: 
Hey I can send a few cultures out to some members if you can't sub them fast enough. Just don't hold me to it as a permanent job, as I also do other things  :Grin: 

Regards

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## exotic_idiot

Hi Mo, i'm keen to try. If possible i would like to keep it as a everlasting culture.
Thanks.

Cheers,
Ben

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## Zeth

how can i separate grindal worms from acari?

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## exotic_idiot

Acari? Meaning a mite?

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## ikarsai

Yes mites Acari would not be a problem, fish will eat them. If you need clean worms to start new culture wash the mites out, they have different speed of sinking. If you meant agar (the culture medium) then I suggest to keep them in dark (the culture posted above have transparent box and worms generally do not like light). In dark they are more brave to come out and you will find some on the surface. Best Steve

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## mozaqua

> Hi Mo, i'm keen to try. If possible i would like to keep it as a everlasting culture.
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ben


Ya, I usually keep 3 separate cultures. Not because it is necessary but because I don't want to lose them (paranoia)  :Grin: .
My oldest culture is about 1 1/2 yrs old, have not changed the medium yet. The others I feed more heavily for higher output.

Ok, anyone want some starter cultures just PM me. Limited time, to help some people out (Trade/cheap but not free). Forum members only, thanks. [Ron, let me know if that is ok? Not trying to make a profit on this]

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## mozaqua

> how can i separate grindal worms from acari?





> Acari? Meaning a mite?


Best method (if already infected) is to re-subculture your worms in a mite free medium. Wash them in water first and use only a few big worms for breeding, don't use ANY of the old medium. 
Be sure to sterilize the container if you are reusing it; bleach/dish soap followed by complete drying will work.

2nd best method, is to reduce feeding, humidity, etc.
I have also found if you put the food into the substrate until most of it is covered than the mites will not attack it, since the worms will get to it first. This is more of a preventative measure though. Also helps with ants and small flies (a problem at my place). Once the worms population rebounds to out-compete the other invading critters than the culture will be more sustainable.

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## Zeth

Thank you !!

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## gnihc11

> Ron,
> 
> Seems you guys are still in a worm crunch (short on worms) 
> Hey I can send a few cultures out to some members if you can't sub them fast enough. Just don't hold me to it as a permanent job, as I also do other things 
> 
> Regards



Generous bro .....thank you.

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## RonWill

> Ron, let me know if that is ok? Not trying to make a profit on this


 Mosiah, I am biased against free handouts, not so for the value of it but due to complacency. Trading is best since it fosters goodwill and friendship, but sell if you have to and do emphasize that you're sending *starter cultures*, not ready-to-harvest ones, lest the other party have different expectations.

I would also humbly suggest for interested members to read further on culture maintenance and re-subs. One box of culture is simply too dicey especially during warm spells.

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## exotic_idiot

I normally kept 5-6 cultures going for microworms.. And if any crashes in one of them, i gain experiences and revise food and water.
I agree that it's necessary to trade/sell or give some of your cultures just in case anything might happen and you won't search high and low for it.
Anyway IMHO - How much one can profit selling worms?
Unless you open factory making mass productions? :Grin:  :Laughing:

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## RonWill

It was many years ago when I distributed microworms freely and taught fellow-hobbyists how to maintain and re-sub. At that time, no such live cultures were available and mine was one of the early circulations, if not the first.

Worms by itself is not going to get you rich but it's the effort of maintaining multiple cultures, especially when the was a fish gathering scheduled and I probably have at least 20 cultures as 'door gifts'.

Some of the serious hobbyists took the effort to keep their cultures going but generally, I felt that when one pays nothing, some don't bother to research more on the topic nor does it matter when the culture crashes... they just ask for another, expecting ready-to-harvest and that's what irks me the most.

For what grindals are worth, I hope that those who manage to get hold of starter cultures will put in the time for propagation. These really are a good supplement to most fishes' diet but not to be fed exclusively.

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## exotic_idiot

> It was many years ago when I distributed microworms freely and taught fellow-hobbyists how to maintain and re-sub. At that time, no such live cultures were available and mine was one of the early circulations, if not the first.
> 
> Worms by itself is not going to get you rich but it's the effort of maintaining multiple cultures, especially when the was a fish gathering scheduled and I probably have at least 20 cultures as 'door gifts'.
> 
> Some of the serious hobbyists took the effort to keep their cultures going but generally, *I felt that when one pays nothing, some don't bother to research more on the topic nor does it matter when the culture crashes... they just ask for another, expecting ready-to-harvest and that's what irks me the most.*
> 
> For what grindals are worth, I hope that those who manage to get hold of starter cultures will put in the time for propagation. These really are a good supplement to most fishes' diet but not to be fed exclusively.


Now i fully understand your reasons already... But like what i told you before you meet some good, some bad... Nobody's perfect :Smile: 

For those who manage to get some cultures from mo, please took the effort to keep their cultures going instead of keep asking for more.
P.s: including myself if i got it too :Grin:

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## mozaqua

> Mosiah, I am biased against free handouts, not so for the value of it but due to complacency. Trading is best since it fosters goodwill and friendship, but sell if you have to and do emphasize that you're sending *starter cultures*, not ready-to-harvest ones, lest the other party have different expectations.
> 
> I would also humbly suggest for interested members to read further on culture maintenance and re-subs. One box of culture is simply too dicey especially during warm spells.


Yes, I will do, Ron. Totally understand where you are coming from, if it is free, then maybe less inclined to care.
My micro-worm culture was lost during my move to the new place, so I went back to the Betta breeder lady and got a new one for 50B. I first thought her price was a bit high for this market, but consider the fact that it takes a lot of effort to keep so many cultures going and not many people buy very often. I think well worth it.

Anyway, let me state here: STARTER CULTURES ONLY. This means you feed them and grow them for a couple weeks before they should be harvested or re-sub'ed. Also keeping 1-2 backup cultures going is a good idea...since you never know. Many things can happen, mold, mites, ants, flies, you name it.. backup everything (like my PC  :Grin: ) Oh, and like Ron said read up on some other post about maintenance as well, for those who have not kept these before (even the experienced might find some new info).

Oh, I am in BANGKOK, THAILAND for those who are confused. (shipping is pretty low to SG) If you are in the USA or elsewhere it might be easier to buy on Aquabid. This is mainly for the forum members in SE Asia who don't want to pay the high shipping cost of ordering from the USA/Canada/EU.

Regards,

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## shentake

can u share your grindal for me  :Smile:

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## Zeth

Thank you very mutch

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## mozaqua

> can u share your grindal for me


PM me if you want the Starter culture. I will take Paypal, or trade for Moss, killi eggs, other types of live foods. Right now, other than Grindals, I have: micro worms, (vinegar eel worms on the way? Maybe), Moina, Daphnia pullex, Rotifers Fresh Water/SW, 3 types of Algae species, paramecium (i think), small Crustacean species (similar to Gammarus and Daphnia), and copepods FW. This list is not for sale, just letting you know what I already have...so if you have something different let me know.

I am encouraging everyone to share/trade and sub-culture these worms as much as possible.

Regards,
Mosiah

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## TyroneGenade

Hi all,

I've been experimenting with the scrubbing pad grindal/white worm culture method and the attached pic is the result. I had to switch from flake to a local cereal food which has given wonderful results. I can harvest from this culture twice a day! I didn't harvest on Saturday with the result that today the worms were trying to escape the box because there were too many of them in it.

This method works excellently. I'm going to try it with microworms and see how that goes.

tt

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## RonWill

Tyrone,
Without the image, who would believe that scrubbing pads makes perfect media! Your use of a plastic lid, or any flat plastic piece for that matter, to keep other bugs out is an excellent idea.

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## stormhawk

Hmm.. grindals. The previous cultures on coco peat didn't work out. I can't find my copy of the TFH article on culturing grindals on a sponge pad.

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## TyroneGenade

You can try these two articles:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4560263_grin...poly-pads.html

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/fi...ultureNEW.html

Stormhawk, a friend has isolated a grindal-like worm from his earth worm cultures and we will be experimenting with it. It seems temperature resistant.

The lids are plastic petri dishes. I tried glass and it didn't work. It seems the cover has to be light weight else the worms don't attach to it well or you end up picking up the food as well.

I'm selling my worm food on Aquabid if anyone is interested.

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## icesee

Hi Mo,

Sorry to dig out a old thread.... can I buy a grindal culture from you? Or does anyone know where to buy in Singapore. Thanks

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## icesee

Hi all, any idea where or anyone selling this grindal worm in Singapore? Hope someone can answer or advise. Thanks for reading.

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## icesee

Hi,

Thanks to a kind bro here who supplied a starter culture.... I have since culture another 2 small grindal worm cultures, took me one month. Two cultures are enough for myself. So I am letting go one small starter culture set-up to pass on and help others. Not free though. Anyone? Sorry Mod, I am unable to post at marketplace yet. Please delete if not appropriate. Thanks

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## marco

> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to a kind bro here who supplied a starter culture.... I have since culture another 2 small grindal worm cultures, took me one month. Two cultures are enough for myself. So I am letting go one small starter culture set-up to pass on and help others. Not free though. Anyone? Sorry Mod, I am unable to post at marketplace yet. Please delete if not appropriate. Thanks


i'm interested in your grindalworm. Pls sms me @ 9643 7176

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## daguldfisher

hi bros, i am interested in starting this grindal worm culture. does anybody here have a space starter culture that i can buy? really want my killies to grow healthy. now they are on pure bbs but my fries are growing very fast and tried offering them powdered tetra micropellets but they seem to ignore them. now they are growing so bigger and bigger each day and growing so fast that pretty soon they cannot feed on bbs anymore. please help. i will really appreciate if any bro can help me start gw culture. i dont know where to get the worms from to start it.

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## marco

I have, you may text me @ 9643 7176

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## lewpoh

Hi anyone still selling grindal worms, would like to get it watapps me at 81574515. Tnx.

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## Excelsior

I have a question for those who have successfully kept grindal worms before. What temperature were they kept in? 

From the several articles that I've read online they cited that they prefer lower temps, but are more resistant to higher temperature as compared to white worms (wikipedia). Another site stated that they do well in mid 80s fahrenheit (29.4 celsius), and stops producing at mid 90s (35 celsius) (another source).

I'm interested in getting a culture myself and maintaining them. So, am I right to assume that they will do fine in SG's climate/temperature?

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## Shi Xuan

You can be rest assured that grindal worms do well in our tropical climate. Take note to keep these critters in a dark place. When I had cultures of them, I fed them on friskies cat kribbles. The population exploded within a matter of time and I had not have any problems harvesting them for my fish. 

Keep the cultures well covered as they tend to attract flies to lay eggs in your culture.

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## Excelsior

That is good to hear. I will take note to keep them in dark places and keep them well covered (and ventilated).

Anyone have any grindal worm culture to sell/offer? I do not need those ready to harvest types, just need an ample amount to grow them. Can you leave me a private message?

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## zep_betta

aquamark on carousell, meet up is at Queenstown mrt.

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## acertey

Hi, anyone with a cheap quick starter for grindal worms? Looking to kick start this as well.

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