# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk > Aquatic Moss Club >  Mosses and the men who love them - Part X

## timebomb

Hi, folks,

This report consists of 3 chapters and they are:

1. The mosses that Andrew (aka fish newb) found
2. A common name for _Fissidens fontanus_
3. The _Fissidens_ that Ben (aka subzero) found
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*1.* Andrew Hill, a 14 year old boy who lives in the United States sent 13 bryophytes, 4 of which were aquarium mosses he got from other hobbyists and the rest plants he collected from the streams and creeks around his neighbourhood in New England. I must say Andrew did a wonderful job with the packing. Besides labelling the plastic bags clearly, he also included a note to describe where the bryophytes were collected. 


However, other than the 4 aquarium mosses and another one which is a species of _Fontinalis_, the bryophytes that Andrew sent are terrestrial in nature. In other words, they can't survive submersed conditions. This being the case, there's little point in learning their identities. There are thousands of species of mosses, mostly terrestrial but as aquaria hobbyists, we are interested only in those that can grow underwater. 

Having said that, however, we know Andrew went through a lot of trouble collecting and packing the mosses so the last thing we'll do is let him down  :Smile:  The professor examined the mosses and these are the results:
Moss number 1 - _Taxiphyllum sp_


Moss number 2 - _Leptodictyum riparium_


Moss number 3 - _Vesicularia sp_


Moss number 4 - _Taxiphyllum sp_


Moss number 5 - _Fontinalis sp_


Moss number 6 - A leafy liverwort, _Scapania sp_


Moss number 7 - _Ptilium sp_


Moss number 8 - _Pleurozium sp_


Moss number 9 - _Hypnum sp_


Moss number 10 - _Campylopus sp_


Moss number 11 - _Leucobryum sp_


Moss number 12 - _Hypnum sp_


Moss number 13 - _Hypnum sp_


Andrew wanted to know what's a good book for someone like himself, a 14 year American boy who's passionate about mosses. This is what the professor recommends - *Janice M. Glime. 1993. The Elfin World of Mosses and Liverworts of Michigan's Upper Peninsula and Isle Royale. Isle Royale Natural History Association, Houghton, MI. 148 pp.*. The professor said the book is written in layman's language and has many coloured photos of the mosses from Michigan State in Eastern United States, where the state of Massachusetts is and has a similar moss flora.

By the way, Andrew, the professor also wants you to know that it isn't a nice thing to *drown* a terrestrial moss  :Laughing:  All the more so when in your part of the world, he said, there are many semi-aquatic to truly aquatic mosses that you can try to grow in your tanks. All you need to do is to and look for mosses growing in bogs, swamps, ponds, lake shores and stream banks.

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*2.* Among the many bryophytes in the aquaria scene today are 2 _Fissidens_, both extremely lovely, that were introduced to the hobby by members of this forum. One is the moss known as _Fissidens fontanus_ which came from Tony Gomez (aka Gomer) who lives in the USA. Tony sent me this moss several months ago and after the professor has identified it, I gave a few strands to Bioplast fish shop. The good folks at Bioplast are good with aquatic plants and in just a few short months, they have lots of this moss. The moss is now well-established in Singapore and it will be just a matter of time before it makes its way into the tanks of hobbyists all over the world.
Here are some pictures of this lovely moss:




Presently, the moss is known in certain circles as US Fissidens. There must be scores, if not hundreds of species of _Fissidens_ in North America. To call the _F. fontanus_ US Fissidens is downright silly, if you ask me. It shows an utter lack of imagination and common sense. Albeit it's just a common name but surely, we can do better. 

I brought the _F. fontanus_ to the professor again last week to try and find out more about this moss. It seems the moss was once known as _Octodiceras fontanus_. I took a picture of it through the professor's microscope:

A picture of the same moss I lifted from the professor's book:

I found out from the professor that the _F. fontanus_ is a true aquatic moss. No wonder it grows so beautifully in Bioplast's tanks. I also learnt that the latin word "fontanu" means "fountain" or "spring". So, would "*Fountain Moss*" be a good common name for _Fissidens fontanus_? You decide. 

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*3.* Before we knew of the _F. fontanus_, there was another _Fissidens_. More than a year ago, Ben Yau, a Singaporean gave me a rock which he picked up from a stream at Bukit Timah. I didn't think much of the rock at first. There were some mosses growing on it but they didn't look very impressive to me then. I put the rock in one of my tanks and this is how it looked after a while:

A close-up:


Not long after Ben gave me the moss, I took a few strands of it to the professor. The professor examined the moss and declared that it wasn't native to Singapore. He was sure the _Fissidens_ couldn't possibly be taken from our local streams. He was sure because just a year or so earlier, he did a project with a team of students and they found 16 _Fissidens_ in Singapore. Ben's _Fissidens_ did not belong to any of the 16 on the professor's list. 

I tried to explain to the professor then that Ben couldn't possibly have given me the wrong information. There was absolutely no reason for Ben to lie. He gave the moss to me completely free of charge. And on top of that, he gave me the rock and not just the moss. If Ben had been pulling my leg and the moss had come from another country, it wouldn't make sense at all for the person sending the moss to send the rock as well. 

Anyway, the professor was adamant that the moss couldn't possibly be from Singapore. So the identity of the _Fissidens_ became a mystery. Not long later, I gave a few strands of the _Fissidens_ to Bioplast. The folks at Bioplast are accomplished aquatic gardeners. With just a few strands, they managed to grow heaps of the moss. Here are some pictures of the _Fissidens_ in Bioplast's tanks:



Last week, I took a few strands of the _Fissidens_ from Bioplast to the professor. My intention was to ask the professor to examine the moss again to see if we can come up with a good common name for it. To my surprise, the professor said the _Fissidens_ that I brought was different from the earlier one. Obviously, someone must have made a mistake somewhere along the line but I'm not sure who is at fault. This is the route the _Fissidens_ took after Ben found it:

Ben found the moss in a local stream ---> He gave me the moss ---> I grew them in my tanks for a while ---> Then I showed them to the professor ---> He said it couldn't be native to Singapore ---> I brought the moss home ---> Later, I gave some of it to Bioplast ---> Last week, I took a few strands back from Bioplast ---> I brought the moss to the professor again ---> He said it's different from the one I brought to him earlier.

It's highly unlikely but it could be the moss got mixed up with another when it was in my tanks. I don't know but the good news is we now know the identity of the _Fissidens_ that Ben found. The professor said it's *Fissidens zippelianus*, a moss native to Singapore. I'm glad that the mystery of the mosses' identity has been solved. I'm even more glad that Ben's integrity has been vindicated. I never doubted his honesty but still, it's good to know that the air has finally been cleared. 

The professor said one main characteristic of _F. zippelianus_ is their swollen cells. Here's a diagram of how the swollen cells look like:

Here's a picture of the moss through the microscope:


The leaves of _F. zippelianus_ are pointed at the ends:



Now that we are aware of its identity and the fact that this _Fissidens_ is fairly well-established in Singapore, it's time we give it a common name. The _Fissidens_ is known as "Phoenix Moss" in some circles. If you ask me again, I think that's a rather lame common name. The moss deserves better.

Please take a good look at a close-up picture of _Fissidens zippelianus_:

What does it reminds you of? Does this comes to mind?


Zippelianus, according to the professor is the name of the Dutch botanist who first described the moss more than 2 centuries ago. So, would *Zipper Moss* be a good name for _Fissidens zippelianus_? You decide.

LoH K L

<<-- Part IX......Part XI-->>

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## uorme99

Hi timebomb, 

Thank you for such an informative post on fissidens. i am beginning to love fissidens and am considering to start a fissiden only tank consisting of all the various fissidens. Hope to learn more from you. 

Regards,
Jumali

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## Green Baron

Kwek Leong,
I just remember I still have a rock with Fissidens given by Ben. I left it in my office tank and have forgotten about it. I 'll bring the rock to the professor the next time we visit him.

I like the common name Fountain Moss and Zipper Moss.

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## StanChung

Hi KL,

I think the names sound apt, though i have a silly question to ask:
Is it correct to call fissidens a moss?

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## Green Baron

> Hi KL,
> 
> I think the names sound apt, though i have a silly question to ask:
> Is it correct to call fissidens a moss?


Yes, the term Moss is the commonly used to refer to plants in the Division Bryophyta which Fissidens and other aquatic mosses belong to.

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## t4.

I also like both of your proposed common names. For personal reasons, I'm particularly fond of Fissidens fontanus being referred to as fountain moss; one of the places I found it growing in the wild was a fountain where water emerges from an aquafier.

I also like the use of the word "moss" in both of the common names. As Stan touched on, there seems to currently be a fairly widespread perception that Fissidens species are not moss. Using the word "moss" rather than "Fissidens" (i.e., "US Fissidens") in the common names may help to clear up this confusion.

Thanks for another great post!

-Chris

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## timebomb

> i am beginning to love fissidens and am considering to start a fissiden only tank consisting of all the various fissidens.


Jumali, besides the 2 _Fissidens_ mentioned in this post, the only other Fissidens' in the local aquaria scene are _F. nobilis_ and _F. splachnobryoides_. The former has very large fronds while the latter grows into a dense mat. Here are some pictures:
*Fissidens nobilis*


*Fissidens splachnobryoides*


You can find _F. nobilis_ at Bioplast while Nature Aquarium sells _F. splachnobryoides_.




> Using the word "moss" rather than "Fissidens" (i.e., "US Fissidens") in the common names may help to clear up this confusion.


Besides what Chris said, there's also another reason why we shouldn't use the word "Fissidens" in the common name. The word "Fissidens" is latin. With common names, it's best if we stick to English.

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## uorme99

Thank you LoH K L.

This 'Mosses and the men who love them' thread is really informative and useful. Therefore to summarize it, is the below correct:

1) Fissidens fontanus - alias as US Fissidens - well known

2) Fissidens zippelianus - alias as Fissidens SP - native to singapore

but there is this fissiden which i bought from NA. the uncle says that it is japan fissiden, link to pic: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=25182
looks really like Fissiden SP. Is it of the same species?


3) Fissidens nobilis - alias as Thai Fissiden - went to Bioplast, costly for just a small mesh

and lastly

4) Fissidens splachnobryoides - dunno the alias, first time seeing it (pics). havent seen it live before.

Do correct me if i am wrong and if there are any updates on any other aquatic fissiden species hope could share the knowledge here or in this forum. Thank you to all. Have a great day.[/img]

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## imported_subzero

Hi KL,

Thank you for giving the Zipper Moss to Bioplast for propagating. Without Bioplast, no one will know how beautify they are in the tank. Without your Killifish.com no one will know their existance. 

I like the common name Fountain Moss and Zipper Moss too, I'll vote for that!

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## uorme99

> Thank you LoH K L.
> 
> This 'Mosses and the men who love them' thread is really informative and useful. Therefore to summarize it, is the below correct:
> 
> 1) Fissidens fontanus - alias as US Fissidens - well known
> 
> 2) Fissidens zippelianus - alias as Fissidens SP - native to singapore
> 
> but there is this fissiden which i bought from NA. the uncle says that it is japan fissiden, link to pic: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=25182
> ...


Hi all, anyone can help me with my point 2). are they of the same species? Thank you.

Jumali

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## Green Baron

The one sold by NA looks like Zipper Moss to me.

Kwek leong,
I just examined the rock which Ben gave me and the Fissidens does not look like Fissidens zippelianus.

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## budak

I think if you read the earlier "Mosses and the men..." posts, you will realise that the naked eye isn't very reliable at identifying many moss species, because:
1 - a single moss species can exhibit different growth forms, frond shapes etc.. depending on condition, population origin and other factors; and
2 - many mosses may look similar or alike (e.g. various Taxiphyllums) but can only be differentiated under the microscope.
So, we can make as many guesses (and not unintelligent ones) as we want but without the aid of the learned eye of a bryologist, my guess is as good as yours. 

The genus Fissidens has something like 900+ species from all over the world, so I second Kwek Leong's point that the popular common names used (e.g. Thai fissidens, Japan fissidens, US fissidens) aren't very helpful, given that there are probably more than a few different species of Fissidens mosses found in each country. A common name that harks back to the moss's unique scientific name (e.g. F. zippelianus>>zipper moss) makes more sense, both descriptively and for the purposes of practical identification.

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## uorme99

> The one sold by NA looks like Zipper Moss to me.
> 
> Kwek leong,
> I just examined the rock which Ben gave me and the Fissidens does not look like Fissidens zippelianus.


Hi Gan CW,
Thanks for the reply. so i guess my jap fissiden is the zipper moss (Fissidens zippelianus).

one more thing, my assumption that: Fissidens zippelianus - is it alias as the Fissidens SP - which is native to singapore, is this correct?
Thank you all

Jumali

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## timebomb

> Kwek leong,
> I just examined the rock which Ben gave me and the Fissidens does not look like Fissidens zippelianus.


Now you're getting me worried, Gan  :Smile:  Although (as Budak has pointed out) observations made with the naked eye tend to be unreliable, I do believe in your powers of observation. Let's arrange another meeting with the professor to clarify things. I do believe, however, that the _F. zippelianus_ is the same _Fissidens_ that Ben found. After our last meeting with the professor, I asked Bioplast and they said it's highly unlikely they got the _Fissidens_ mixed up because they do not have any other _Fissidens_ that looks like the one Ben found. They have _F. nobilis_ and _F. fontanus_ but these are easily distinguishable from _F. zippelianus_.

By the way, folks, whether you like it or not  :Smile: , Bioplast fish shop are happy with the common names suggested in this thread. They will start calling the _F. fontanus_ *Fountain Moss* and the _F. zippelianus_ *Zipper Moss*. 

What we have to do now is come up with an appropriate common name for the Fern Gametophtye which is rapidly becoming widespread in the hobby. I saw on aquabid.com some jokers selling this fern and they call it "Round Pellia". The plant is not a Pellia, not even a liverwort. We have to come up with a better name before this silly one becomes widely accepted. 

Loh K L

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## timebomb

> one more thing, my assumption that: Fissidens zippelianus - is it alias as the Fissidens SP - which is native to singapore, is this correct?


Jumali,

Don't get yourself confused. It's best if you read up a bit more on scientific names and how they are given to living organisms to understand the situation better. This article is about fish but it will give you an idea of how scientific names work.

The _F. zippelianus_ is a moss that is native to Singapore. Before we knew it was _F. zippelianus_, we call it _Fissidens sp_. When we know only the genus but not the species, we use "_sp_" in the scientific name. Genus names always start with a capital but species names should be in small letters. 

Loh K L

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## uorme99

Thank you once again Loh K L. just bought thai fissiden from a fellow aquarist today. i did went to see the F. nobilis at Bioplast. it really looks similar to the thai fissiden which i bought, only much bigger in size. would like to get some from Bioplast but the price deterred me. need to save up for it.  :Smile:

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## uorme99

> Originally Posted by uorme99
> 
> one more thing, my assumption that: Fissidens zippelianus - is it alias as the Fissidens SP - which is native to singapore, is this correct?
> 
> 
> Jumali,
> 
> Don't get yourself confused. It's best if you read up a bit more on scientific names and how they are given to living organisms to understand the situation better. This article is about fish but it will give you an idea of how scientific names work.
> 
> ...


Great article. i now understand the concept for scientific names. i guess its really confusing to stick/named the fissidens with either 'US' or 'Thai' or etc. (But that is what people normally called them). 

Fellow friends, please help me get things straight, as of now i have in my collection: Fissidens fontanus(fountain moss), Fissidens zippelianus (zipper moss, which was named as jap fissiden when i bought it from NA) and i just bought a Fissidens in which was named as 'thai' Fissidens yesterday. its leaves looks like Fissidens nobilis (which i've seen at Bioplast but quite expensive), but much smaller in size compared to Fissidens nobilis. i did took a picture but it is kind of blur i guess it wont be able to help that much. hope others have a similar specimen and help to eleborate more on it.

As for Fissidens splachnobryoides (Doormat Fissidens), i have not yet have the chance to see how it looks like in real life.

Lastly, any fellow aquarist with Fissidens splachnobryoides and Fissidens nobilis could sell me at an afforble price. just enough to cover a 3cm by 5cm wire mess. 

Thank you for reading.
Good Day!
Jumali

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## StanChung

> The plant is not a Pellia, not even a liverwort. We have to come up with a better name before this silly one becomes widely accepted. 
> 
> Loh K L


Hi KL,

Is it the one refered to as subwassertang?

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## t4.

> Is it the one refered to as subwassertang?


I believe you're correct, Stan; the fern gameophyte referred to as Süßwassertang is the same as what is being sold as "round Pellia."

It's too bad that both of the common names being used for the fern gametophyte are quite innacurate. "Süßwassertang," after all, means "freshwater seaweed" in English! Since the gametophyte is neither a Pellia nor seaweed, it really is in need of a new, more accurate common name. Having never seen it in real life, though, I'll hold off on suggesting one for it.  :Smile: 

-Chris

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## StanChung

I have some that I bought a year ago from a hobbyist in Jakarta. He called it Timmika.
He said it originated from Timmika, Papua New Guinea, hence the name.
Since I don't know how true this is till I saw it posted here and on Vic's website as Subwassertang. Maybe somebody reading can help join the dots.

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## timebomb

Just to be sure we are talking about the same plant, here are some pictures of the fern gametophyte:


Bioplast has lots of it. They even use it as a fern wall:


A close-up picture of the plant:


Take note that the plant is a fern. It's neither a moss nor a liverwort. To be exact, it's a fern that for some strange reason, can't grow up  :Smile:  It's stuck at the gametophyte stage. Here's a chart explaining a fern's life cycle:


According to the professor, the leaves of the fern gametophyte are exactly one-cell thick. It's a plant that is of great interest to many botanists around the world as it's a mystery why the gametophyte does not throw out sporophytes and grow into stems, roots etc. The identity of the fern itself is another mystery.

The professor said that recently, some botanists in Germany have established the identity of the fern gametophyte by using DNA finger-printing. Don't ask me what's DNA finger-printing all about as I don't have the slightest idea. But if you have a good suggestion for an appropriate common name, we would love to hear from you.

Loh K L

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## whuntley

I have seen something that looks identical in our local cold-water streams. I thought it was some kind of wort.

Common name? How about "Baby Fern?"

Or, to honor those among us who refuse to grow up despite baldness, gray hair, and false teeth, how about "Rocker Fern?"  :Laughing:  

Wright

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## StanChung

> Just to be sure we are talking about the same plant, here are some pictures of the fern gametophyte:
> L


That's the one! Great to have experts on it. I thought it was a liverwort.
It looks like one it should be one? 
So wrong!
It has multiplied like crazy in my tanks and is pretty algae resistant or i must be doing something right.  :Very Happy:

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## fabry

> The professor said that recently, some botanists in Germany have established the identity of the fern gametophyte by using DNA finger-printing. Don't ask me what's DNA finger-printing all about as I don't have the slightest idea. But if you have a good suggestion for an appropriate common name, we would love to hear from you. 
> 
> Loh K L


Hi K.L.
You mean that someone could identify the species?
If this is true (I mean - if I understood correctly what you said) it would be great to know its latin name finally.
No?  :Very Happy:   :Wink: 

Best regards,

Fabrizio.

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## fish newb

Hey Guys, Thanks a TON Loh! Well, To your surprise most of the mosses arent doing well that I had collected! LOL, Some on the other hand are doing excellent! 

Some of the growth or not growth from *drowned mosses  :Rolling Eyes:  *

7- looks as if it is rooting all brown things... will be interesting to watch..  :Rolling Eyes:  

8-..... Well this one is amazing, in the picture you can see it's aquatic form starting to come out... well it keeps on growing! I think this will survive for a loong time! Beautiful brown and green growth!

9- Not much has happened, obviously has no true aquatic form

10- Thought was a fissiden at first, guess not will watch this.

11- is acting odd Obviously not going to last too much longer  :Sad:  

12- This is interesting... two mosses that are the same one found dry one found in a stream... so they must be aquatic compatible  :Wink:  



> Andrew wanted to know what's a good book for someone like himself, a 14 year American boy who's passionate about mosses. This is what the professor recommends - Janice M. Glime. 1993. The Elfin World of Mosses and Liverworts of Michigan's Upper Peninsula and Isle Royale. Isle Royale Natural History Association, Houghton, MI. 148 pp.. The professor said the book is written in layman's language and has many coloured photos of the mosses from Michigan State in Eastern United States, where the state of Massachusetts is and has a similar moss flora.
> 
> By the way, Andrew, the professor also wants you to know that it isn't a nice thing to *drown* a terrestrial moss Laughing All the more so when in your part of the world, he said, there are many semi-aquatic to truly aquatic mosses that you can try to grow in your tanks. All you need to do is to and look for mosses growing in bogs, swamps, ponds, lake shores and stream banks.


Thanks for the book recomendation  :Very Happy:  

And I have moved on to streams bogs puddles ponds.... So tell the DR. that he will have another good sized group of plants before long if he would like to see anything,..... Have collected a few interesting Moss number 6 - A leafy liverwort, Scapania sp Similar looking plants and They look great  :Shocked:  

15 Now  :Rolling Eyes:  Birthday was on the 29th But keep age the same since I was when I sent it, and you posted

Thanks for Everything and Thank you Loh, Thank you Dr. Tan!

Thanks again!

- Andrew

(Sorry for the late reply, have been away Mississippi- no moss found  :Sad:  , Then before we went there I got to go collecting  :Exclamation:   :Exclamation:  found some fissidens, liverworts, fun stuff!)

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## fish newb

http://cgi.ebay.com/Live-aquarium-pl...QQcmdZViewItem

Your pictures are being used,......

Oh, And I have a moss book on the way I got for Christmass about New England mosses! Printed in the 1800s  :Shocked:  

-Andrew

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## totziens

This is an excellent thread. I have never thought that there are so many different types of moss. I also didn't expect them to be available in the wild in Singapore. I guess they may be available in Malaysia too since our climate is similar. I think I have not been exposed to any unpolluted river/stream in Malaysia for ages. That's why I have not come across any moss in the wild. Maybe you can come across the border to check out Malaysian river/stream too. I am not sure whether any Malaysian is doing this kind of research - it's a shame if nobody does it.

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## timebomb

> You mean that someone could identify the species?
> If this is true (I mean - if I understood correctly what you said) it would be great to know its latin name finally.
> No?


Sorry I took such a long time to reply to your question, Fabrizio. I was with the professor just now and when I asked him for the latin name of the fern gametophtye, he said we shouldn't reveal the name because what the botanists have discovered about this fern isn't conclusive. They have an ID but they can't be certain it's the right ID. So for the present moment, it's best to keep the name under wraps until they are sure.




> Your pictures are being used,......


Thanks for the tip, Andrew. It's not the first time someone has used my pictures without my expressed permission. I think these fellas are scum.
It's not like they are small-timers or something. Heck, why does a company that ships their plants all over the world and has its own sub-forum in several "planted tank message boards" use my pictures to sell their mosses when they could have easily use their own? Why do they have to steal my pictures when they have the mosses for sale? Can't they take their own pictures? 

Loh K L

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## fish newb

> Originally Posted by fish newb
> 
> Your pictures are being used,......
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip, Andrew. It's not the first time someone has used my pictures without my expressed permission. I think these fellas are scum.
> It's not like they are small-timers or something. Heck, why does a company that ships their plants all over the world and has its own sub-forum in several "planted tank message boards" use my pictures to sell their mosses when they could have easily use their own? Why do they have to steal my pictures when they have the mosses for sale? Can't they take their own pictures? 
> 
> Loh K L


Who knows.....

I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it.... he didn't respond though. 

And come on... it isn't that hard to even just say "from killies.com" or something like that!

Mosses are doing pretty good. This spring I'll probably have some more to send you! I collected some more willow moss and another moss that's probably nano moss! Also some new liverworts that are growing well in my tanks!

Thanks for the help IDing the previous mosses Loh!

-Andrew

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## zobek

> and another moss that's probably nano moss!


I think that it's not a big deal  :Wink:  In Poland nano moss is growing in our gardens  :Laughing:  

Best regards
Krzysiek

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## RonWill

> I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it


 Andrew, why would this be so? It doesn't matter what you take or for what intentions. So long it's taken without permission, it's stealing, period. Too bad the culprit has to be a gutless northern neighbour.

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## timebomb

> I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it.... he didn't respond though.


I appreciate your efforts, Andrew but please don't stick your neck out on my behalf. It's not worth the trouble. I saw the post on APC and it only reinforces my belief that we should keep our forum free from commercial interests. The moment we accept sponsorship we become beholden to our sponsors. It's kind of hard to tell the guy who's paying your webhosting fees that he's unethical, if you know what I mean. Here in killies.com, all the moderators and I know that the day we do this as a business, whether full-time or part-time, it would also mean that's the day we leave this forum.




> And come on... it isn't that hard to even just say "from killies.com" or something like that!


My sentiments exactly. The fact is all he had to do was ask. I've never turned down anyone or any company when they asked me for permission to use my pictures.

Loh K L

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## joteo

> Originally Posted by fish newb
> 
> I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it.... he didn't respond though.
> 
> 
> I appreciate your efforts, Andrew but please don't stick your neck out on my behalf. It's not worth the trouble. I saw the post on APC and it only reinforces my belief that we should keep our forum free from commercial interests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for pushing this really off topic, but the images are hosted at imageshack.

So, please do report the abuse on this page, as the owner of the images:
http://reg.imageshack.us/content.php?page=email&q=abuse

I do not think that you should let this go as this guy is using the pictures for profit. In fact, I think it's disappointing if you don't.

Since we are given the tools to report abuse, we should use it.

All you have to do is Right Click on the offending pictures and copy the address from the ebay webpage.

I've reported the abuse to eBay already. But it's best you get him at the imageshack level.

Joanne

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## timebomb

Thanks, Joanne.

I've already sent a request to imageshack to ask them to delete the pictures. Maybe I'm too laidback but if you hadn't said the part about disappointing, I wouldn't have made the report. The way I see it - imageshack may not accede to my request because it will take a bit of work on my part to prove those were my pictures. 

Loh K L

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## t4.

I was very surprised at the mostly negative reactions to your post at APC, Andrew. Obviously it's pretty sleazy that KL's photographs were being used without his permission and without giving him due credit.

However, there is another issue: in using pictures that are not actually of the plants he is selling, AquaticMagic is, in my opinion, misrepresenting the product he is trying to sell to, among others, members of the APC community. The issue is therefore relevant to all of AquaticMagic's customers and potential customers, so posting about it in a public forum is perfectly appropriate. I couldn't believe that your topic was closed without this issue being given any consideration.

It makes me appreciate the lack of commercialism, encouragement of a wide variety of ideas, and sense of community at this forum that much more.  :Smile: 

-Chris

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## fish newb

> I was very surprised at the mostly negative reactions to your post at APC, Andrew. Obviously it's pretty sleazy that KL's photographs were being used without his permission and without giving him due credit.
> 
> However, there is another issue: in using pictures that are not actually of the plants he is selling, AquaticMagic is, in my opinion, misrepresenting the product he is trying to sell to, among others, members of the APC community. The issue is therefore relevant to all of AquaticMagic's customers and potential customers, so posting about it in a public forum is perfectly appropriate. I couldn't believe that your topic was closed without this issue being given any consideration.
> 
> It makes me appreciate the lack of commercialism, encouragement of a wide variety of ideas, and sense of community at this forum that much more. 
> 
> -Chris


Yeah, I agree. APC mods are worried about bad publicity on their sponso I think... Who knows. I'm working on getting more plants raised in USA and not have to be imported. Mosses are a big hit so far and hopefully I'll up my inventory levels and get more mosses around here and hopefully need less venders from maylasia and other parts of the world. 

Loh, good to know you're taking actions. I can't wait to see him loose your pictures!

-Andrew

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## AquaManCanada

AquaticMagic is using false pictures to advertise their product? This makes me wonder. I just finished purchasing some plants from their store on eBay and now I am second guessing myself although I have won the auctions and therefore I must may otherwise it is my feedback. I am glad I found out about this though thanks to this thread.

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## polyglott

Hi Kwek Leong, hi all,



> So, would "Fountain Moss" be a good common name for Fissidens fontanus? You decide.


It is pretty difficult to keep in mind all the latin names, but it seems the only way to ensure that we talk about the same plants. So, if we are giving a common name we should also looking that no common name exist.
I agree that "US-Fissidens" is a wrong nick, since F. fontanus is also native in Europe and I couldn't believe that there is no common name for it. At the UK-checklist I found it: *Fountain Pocket-moss*
Reference: http://www.mapmate.co.uk/checklist/fissidentaceae.htm
K.L. respect, you had been very close to the right name.  :Wink: 



> You can find F. nobilis at Bioplast while Nature Aquarium sells F. splachnobryoides.


Maybe, that N.A. sells F. splachnobryoides, but they are wrong.
At the SriLankan-checklist I found the correct taxon of Fissidens splachnobryoides. It is *Fissidens flaccidus*. This is one of the mayor pain dealing with botany - too much synonyms.
Reference: http://www.oshea.demon.co.uk/tbr/srlsyn.htm

If you are now searching the web, you'll found a lot more hits. Inter alia a publication of Benito C. Tan.  :Wink: 
Reference: http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/s12/s12rbz005-008.pdf

Regards Uwe

edit:
Look also at: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.as...axon_id=112827
It may help to identify several Fissidentaceae or to find common names for it (if there is anyone, who knows Chinese).  :Wink:

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## timebomb

Your very first post yet there's so much useful information in it. You deserve more than a normal welcome, Uwe. We should roll out the red carpet for you  :Smile: 

I'm pleasantly surprised that my suggestion for a common name for _Fissidens fontanus_ is so close to the one already existing. There's little point in re-inventing the wheel so we should just ignore my suggestion but the name "Fountain Pocket Moss" seems a little long-winded. And why "pocket", I wonder? Is it because the moss is small? Hey, aren't all mosses?

As for _Fissidens splachnobryoides_, I don't know if it's the wrong name as _Fissidens flaccidus_ is listed as a synonym. From what I understand of the word "synonym", it would mean we can use either _F. splachnobryoides_ or _F. flaccidus_. My guess is the moss was first described and named as _F. splachnobryoides_ by someone and then later named as _F. flaccidus_ by another bryologist who wasn't aware that the moss has been described earlier. The professor told me once this kind of mix-up's happens often with bryophytes. 

Between the 2 names though, I would prefer _F. flaccidus_ for the simple reason it's a whole lot shorter and so much easier to remember.

Loh K L

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## Martin

let me as this..

F. zippelianus is the former F. sp. Singapore currently listed on Aquamoss.net?

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## timebomb

> F. zippelianus is the former F. sp. Singapore currently listed on Aquamoss.net?


Hmm, I think the answer is yes but to be sure, I would suggest you ask the administrator of aquamoss.net. 

Loh K L

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