# General > AquaTalk >  In built aquariums in Wall

## dawugui

Hey guys,

Just doing my research ultra early. Will be expecting my new house somewhere end of 2013-2014. It may even come much earlier than that. Got the approval from my wife for placing a aquarium in the house. BUT she said she does not want the cabinet tanks, needless to say the metal racks. She wanted the type of tank that can be inbuilt into the wall/fake wall.

Is there any aquarists that have done this? If so, can share with me the cost, and maybe the interior contractors that are able to provide this service?

Best of all, share your tanks!  :Laughing:

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## stormhawk

You can contact the tank makers in the Merchant section, or get a renovation company to do it for you. I have no idea on cost but this might set you back a fair bit if you are asking for some expensive wood for the cabinet section. The type of glass you choose for the tank will also cost you. Problem with these built in units is that you are stuck with the tank since you can't rearrange it once everything is in place, so it's probably best to ask yourself how big you want it to be and where to position it.

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## Nicky

To add.. one also has to consider how serious and persistence is one prepared to sink into this hobby.

Plus the ease of maintenance cannot be omitted.. many tanks are made with brace, and that will reduce the area and size of the top access area. Coupled with the opening (door?) at the top of the build-in tank it usually take a very flexible person to get into a strange position to do the weekly maintenance.

For a stand alone tank one can have it made at a good height such that you dont have to climb too high to maintain it. Build-in-wall tank may look strange if the viewing area is low. To counter that most people build their tank such that viewing area is high enough.. but that means not only you need to be a very flexible person, you need to be one that can do the twisting act at height.

It the top of the tank is to be covered up, the heat generated by the lightings has to be taken into considerations.

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## dawugui

Sigh, but that looks the most probable solution that will please my wife and myself. 
So unless i go for low light consumption plants, the heat factor will definite be a problem. 

That's why i hope that there's some interior contractor some of the aquarist brothers will know about. At least they can guide me on the 'dos' and 'donts'.
I heard from other forum people that its best to let the tank merchant and contractor handle the issues about combining the tank set up and the interior decor but I guessing it will cost much more that just ordering a custom made tank.

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## polyho

Hi. I come across this. You can call them to check it out. I have not use them but am impress by their art work

http://www.urbanseas.com/#work

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## stormhawk

I've seen this store while visiting the building for toys. Nice designs but if you're going with this, need to ask on maintenance, cooling and lighting issues.

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## BFG

The previous founder of sgreefclub actually had a tank in wall in his apartment. If I'm not wrong, it was nearly 6ft. He had dedicated a room just for that tank and it's equipment.

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## yilimi

Hi. I saw some products from aquatic style in their website. You might want to refer to such designs?

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## Garry

I do have a friend who did this in his new house which the tank is 5ft. He got the someone to cut a hole in the middle of the wall in one of the room.
I will try to find his number as i have not contact him for a long time. If not you can check in SGReef. They may have people who do that.

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## Nicky

A forumer here used to have a 6-7ft planted built into one of the dividing wall.. I was there with him wetting my armpit when he setup, and torn down later, and reset up so I know how it was like.
He had 3pieces of 150W MH as lighting source to reach the depth and he completely covered up the top to ensure the light does not spill.

He has the external condenser type of chiller - similar to regular aircon setup; those very same one that reefers use.. this is his way of drawing the heat out, by placing the condensing unit on the outside of his house. There will be tremendous heat buildup, even for a small horsepower chiller, if the heat of the chiller is not made to go out of the house.

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## eddy planer

Actually, to built -in wall whatever size tank can be DIY. Maybe you can just contact the contractor to built an empty standby your desire wall hole of 2ft wide x your preferred in length x height but don't built hole on the main structure, okay. Show me your floor plan and I will able to design and DIY a newly moveable tank out of the wall for easy maintenance. If you like ,then pop me a nice can of Tiger. okay?

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## darter

How about doing a tank with a full height cabinet, that integrate with your furniture? Would that solve the issue?

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## Simon

There is a simplier method, have your desired metal stand available and have your contractor do a false partition/plasterboard around the stand. If done nicely, it will look like a wall. Do take note that you will also require additional bracing for your lighting, a maintenance access panel.
Don't forget to provide ventilation, otherwise trapped moisture will give you future problems.

I do suggest you approach the right people for the job. You might like to approach Green chapter. Have seen some nice room dividers done by them.

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## dawugui

Thanks for all the valuable contribution guys.
polyho - urbanseas i cant really see their preview pictures, its quite small.
yilimi - will take a look later.
Nicky - do we really need a chiller for even a planted tank?
eddy - do you mean to create a fake wall partition?
Simon - i'm just worried that the metal may rust.

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## dawugui

darter, its a long way to go before i get my furniture...




> How about doing a tank with a full height cabinet, that integrate with your furniture? Would that solve the issue?

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## Neondagger

When my father was driving just now. I saw urbansea shops. It's quite small but has 3 different tanks. Can take a look. Quite nice furnitures.

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## eddy planer

hi neondagger

Actually, hor I felt that what Nicky was right about the disadvantage of having built-in wall tank is really very troublesome, meddlesome to up-keeping and maintenance your tank. To made the matter worse I won't be surprise the quote for dream built in wall tank depending the size , eg 422 tank will be close to SGD10k to 13K ( i already checked the price)! Depending what materials to use to setup or built your tank on the wall will be determine the cost itself.
My opinion if I got a chance to spend the money like this, I rather spend on a good comfy leather sofa, nice Chengal tea-table, bluray player and Samsung 58" smart TV to entertain my whole family for my new flat.Hence I did not said you to quit your beloved passion but you need to priority your new household's important needs first. who knows you will receive a new 433 tank with cabinet for your house-warming present at the end! 

just my thoughts

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## Nicky

I also feel build-in aquarium is nice but I think there are many aspects to think through before one start on this journey that can be expensive to reverse.

Just go to GreenChapter shop in Clementi to have a look. Compare the 2 display tanks; one with open top concept (braceless) and the other that is build-in (braced) and if you ask the shopkeeper to allow you to open up the top doors of the build-in cabinet and have a look, it may help you understand what I meant by the contortionist act that one has to put up every time some change in the layout is needed.

You will also notice the build-in display tank is of higher elevation than that stand-alone one. While you are at GC picture imagine in your mind if both tanks were built at the same low elevation as the stand-alone tank.. does it look weird for the build-in tank? That's what I meant by build-in tank must be higher. So with that it means that maintaining and setup the tank requires some climbing up and down some steps/ladder.

If your build-in tank serves as a dividing wall, then it is best (look wise) to have the access point behind instead of in front (GC's is in front). That adds yet another layer of complexity in setup and maintenance because you will not be able to see and gauge the layout when you are standing high up from the top at the back. That means you have to put down your wood (for example), go to the front and have a look, and if dissatisfied, go to the back, climb up and redo, then repeat. Or you will need a friend to stand in the front, to shout out the command "left.. left.. no.. a little to the right.. ok stop.. now move back and turn clockwise.. .." while you try to follow his command.. and imagine this is to be executed every single piece of wood, rock and plant you put in, and every single time you do any small change in layout..

You asked the question if chiller is needed for planted. I think that is a mute point for this thread.. whether chiller is needed or otherwise is not limited to open-concept or closed-up tank.. but for a closed up tank that need to draw away heat because top priority. Dont be fooled by people telling you T5 or PL does not give up to much heat.. how much heat there are, are all relative to the surrounding and air movement. Try touching to the reflector of a T5 after a few hours of lighting period and you will understand what I meant. The heat energy given out by the light source got to go somewhere.. if there is no chiller, it will stay in the water system. If the chiller is placed in the house, the heat generated will stay in the house unless you have constant wind blowing through in the correct direction; it is as simple as that. Dont be misled by those pic of reefers showing pic of their condensing unit placed above their fridge or somewhere above their tank.. (not only it is unsightly IMO) just stand behind an aircon compressor at the HDB shophouse and imagine that that's an indoor environment where heat will stay in. The condensing unit of a chiller does not just give out the equivalent amount of joules of energy needed to cool the water, the machine itself is not 100% efficient and so there will be much much more joules of energy that has to be expelled into the surrounding. When I first move into my place, I designed my chiller to be in the cabinet (do a search on my nickname and you will see the post). I never understood then why my house was forever hot. I have not looked back since I relocated my chiller outside my home.

Think carefully before you embark on a build-in tank journey.. if you want it to look nice and not be an eye-sore, there's alot of areas you need to walk yourself through.

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## Simon

> Thanks for all the valuable contribution guys.
> polyho - urbanseas i cant really see their preview pictures, its quite small.
> yilimi - will take a look later.
> Nicky - do we really need a chiller for even a planted tank?
> eddy - do you mean to create a fake wall partition?
> Simon - i'm just worried that the metal may rust.


There are different types of metal suitable for the frame, like galvaished steel, mild steel. Unless you living near the coast, where corrosion is higher. You can also consider timber. My previous 6x2x2 is supported on timber frame.

Do take into consideration the total weight of the setup (Wall, tank, sand, volume of water).

Please get a professional to do the setup for you.

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## dawugui

Thanks for all the valuable feedback.
I will go down GC and have a look to compare about the different setups. 
I knew it will have its own disadvantages, in particular the cost and maintenance, but that will have to be my first thought when trying to set up. My wife do not really like the feel of a cabinet tank as she said we will need to empty out an area just to place the tank. 
The heat dissipation is something that i haven't look into or even know about. I will need to see whether does that make economical sense into setting up a planted tank without chiller, or may as well set up one marine tank with chiller since they will be using chiller. BUT i'm quite a marine noob. 
Anyway, 2 years away, so i need more problems and advices whenever possible. It doesn't hurt to think about all the bad things that can happen in this context.
:]

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## RonWill

> ...BUT she said she does not want the cabinet tanks, needless to say the metal racks. She wanted the type of tank that can be inbuilt into the wall/fake wall


 If your OC has *high esthetic expectations and tidiness from both front & rear* of tank &* no clutter* of accompanying equipment, drainage piping for water change etc.... then you're screwed!!

In-wall aquariums are lifestyle products and has very limited flexibility for hardcore hobbyists. Definitely not something you can easily relocate as mainstream tank/rack setups.

I would suggest... half the tank sitting on wall (eg, facing the living area) while the rear half sits on a cabinet in the kitchen to hide your filtration, chiller & storage for fishy stuffs. Design the cabinet to look like part of the kitchen cabinetry. Have hinged access louvered doors at the top to allow for ventilation, heat dissipation and room for movement during maintenance.

Also, a 'view from both sides' setup can be pretty challenging...

Whatever it is, plan ahead for all your electrical/plumbing needs. Once built in, you will not have many options and yes.... OC no happy with wires & pipes, believe me... you won't be happy either!!  :Grin:

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## Nicky

I agree 100% with Ronwill especially the part of 2-sided view setup is very challenging.. as well as the part that "you're screwed"  :Grin:

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## RonWill

Was just thinking... a HDB wall isn't very thick, so if the built-in tank is to be flushed flat to both sides of the wall, then that's gonna be a helluva narrow (width) tank. There won't be much options for wood, rock or plant placement. No larger fishes either since there's no room for 3-point turns. Will TS be happy with just a school of cardinals, flat terrain and a basically boring 2-D layout???

Since it's a narrow anemic tank, and if water column is high, then braces are almost compulsory. Again, the surface:water ratio is pretty lousy. Expect livestock casualties should air pump or filtration fail...

Forgot mentioning *front* louvered top access doors as well and for slots to face upwards so you won't be looking straight into the lights or lines of light on your floor!! Many many things to consider orh...

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## stormhawk

Having an aquarium basically means there will be some mess lying around, be it from clutter or just your aquarium stuff. It happens and it's normal. You can always save on space by having a 2ft cabinet tank, or the ones from Juwel or Eheim, or those cheap China brands like Sun Sun. In fact I think I saw a GEX set advertised at C328 on one of the big tanks at the entrance of the shop. That was a 3ft set but pretty decent IMO.

Some time back I remember a company that made those wall-mounted aquariums, which were VERY narrow in width. If you're on a budget perhaps those will work, and you can probably keep some hardy fish like platies in there.

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## RonWill

> You can always save on space by having a 2ft cabinet tank


 Halo alo alo.... TS's OC specifically said, "...does not want the cabinet tanks"!!! *shove Stormhawk back to his drawing board!!*

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## stormhawk

Yes, but I also said a 2ft tank can be a space saver (small footprint), or work as an aesthetic part of a room. For example:

http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rekord.htm

There are some other models from other brands, that would look pretty nice if combined in the design of a room.

A cube tank built into the edge of a wall may also be a feasible idea, if you want something easy to maintain.

His OC may say no to cabinet tanks, but if she sees some nice designs, who knows, she might change her mind.  :Razz: 

One of the photos in this property listing shows a built in Arowana tank. Perhaps that can work for the TS:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...eet-24-8630928

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## stormhawk

A video showing a tank built as a dividing wall.




This tank is huge, probably 8 feet long. A smaller version may be workable in a HDB flat.

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## dawugui

Hanging aquariums on the wall is a no-no for me, first they are quite small and narrow, and secondly, there's always the possibility of it crashing to the floor if the nails are not secured enough.

Yes, she understand that there will be a mess, that's why she prefer having the in-wall-aquarium so first it doesn't block the way to walk and i can hide most of my barang barang inside.

I hoping to change her mind towards cabinet tanks, but i got to find a good one that suit her taste and her idea of decor before she will learn to appreciate the finer points of aquarium.

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## Simon

if you were to ask me, a built up wall for a fish tank can look very heavy against your deco/interior, in particularly the top portion, I prefer to integrate the stand as part of the wall at one end, leaving the top portion open for you to hang down your lights and give you better coverage for maintenance. I think it is all up to you as an owner on what you looking for as a end product. I have many ideas in mind, it includes having a tank as a partition for your study and living room space or a cosy corner for you to do some reading and yet enjoy your tank at the same time.

having a built in tank doesn't block the way? it is permanent and you have less options when you want to make a reshuffling of your furniture. IMO, it is static, a tank with cabinet is dynamic

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## mike8333

There is 1 in Hortpark (Alexandra) hanging on the wall.
I think its beautiful but maintenance is a problem tho.

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## mike8333

> Hanging aquariums on the wall is a no-no for me, ..........
> .....I hoping to change her mind towards cabinet tanks, but i got to find a good one that suit her taste and her idea of decor before she will learn to appreciate the finer points of aquarium.


Oops didnt read your this post, bring OC to beautiful display tanks and she will slowly be brainwashed.  :Smile: 

There is a beautiful in-wall tank in my customer's office (BradyCorp) lobby, it's pro maintain and its a full sized one. It does not jut out blocking the waiting area, but it definitely sacrifice space on the other side.

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## dawugui

Sigh, really got to weigh my options before starting..

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## Neondagger

Recently got a post by a aquascaper called kennethc. You take a look at his tank. His is a build-in cabinet.

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## ralliart12

> ...I prefer to integrate the stand as part of the wall at one end, leaving the top portion open for you to hang down your lights and give you better coverage for maintenance...


Talking about this, I would love to set this up in my next apartment:



It is kind of like part of the wall, i.e. doesn't jut out. Btw, there's a walk-board to facilitate tank maintenance (the owner says he can stand on the board without issue, & that he had it built for that purpose):

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## dawugui

wow! the last one looks cool! 
but don't he need to cover up the below part>?

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## stormhawk

http://www.melevsreef.com/280g.html

See that and you will know how he covered it up.

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