# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Livebearers >  likelihood of guppies crossing with endlers?

## toledosun

Hi all,

What is the likelihood of the above happening by chance? I do not want them to cross breed. From what I've read, it seems that they could but does that happen easily, or was it as a result of putting the two breeds in small breeding tanks? 

I've some guppies but really like endlers and would like to keep get some for breeding. I've only one tank so segregation is not an option.

Thanks

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## Cacatuoides

Endlers and guppies cross with each other very very easily!!! You may want to divide your tank so that you can enjoy the best of both? another option is to keep only males so you won't have to worry about cross-breeding....

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## Quixotic

From what I have seen around the Internet, it will definitely happen if they are in the same tank. I have already seen some hybrids on sale and there have been quite a number of cross breeding accounts.

Personally, I prefer to keep the endler's line clean. If you don't want to cross breed them, then I guess it's not advisable to have them mixed.

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## toledosun

Cacatuoides,

what type do you have? I want those with striking colours, like moscow blue. Can I have some pics?

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## Cacatuoides

Currently I'm having half tuxedo and broken red stripe....endlers don't have moscow blue...they have far more striking colors than guppies, more energetic and active breeders too!!! 

you can refer to the pics at www.swampriveraquatics.com
(all my endlers are flown in from US)

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## toledosun

apologies, just rechecked and realized moscow blue was the guy's nick, not the name of his fishes.

do you have top yellow sword or top green sword? Those are very nice and I don't mind replacing my guppies with those so that my tank can be nicely populated by CNY.

PM me. thanks.

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## Justikanz

Toledosun, please send your request via PM to Cacatuoides directly. Thanks!!

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## toledosun

Justikanz, sorry :Grin:

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## hwchoy

Even though Dr. Endler has written that he had not observer _Poecilia wingei_ (the fish previously known as "Endler’s Livebearer") to hybridise with _P. reticulata_ (aka guppies), all other anecdotal accounts have it that they will readily interbreed. So you should take care to separate the two species, considering their females are practically indistinguishable.

Here's an interesting article http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...m.php?news=889 and apparently the scientists think the two species would be reproductively isolated, however that doesn't mean freak hybridisation wouldn't happen.

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## Quixotic

According to Dr. Endler, _P. wingei_ and _P. reticulata_ are found naturally together in the collection sites, but he never saw any hybridisation.

However, as they become available in the aquaria, some may be hybridised repeatedly such that they now contain more guppy gene and hence, become more likely to hybridise easily in captivity.

There is an observation from some aquarists that some _P. wingei_ are jumpers. This was not observed by Dr. Endler, but he did see _P. reticulata_ jumping when collecting in the wild.

There is suspicion that those _P. wingei_ that are jumpers may be hybridised at some point in time with _P. reticulata_, and thus inheriting this jumping trait.

Very interesting read, http://www.endlersr.us/viewtopic.php?t=243

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## Cacatuoides

So far all my endlers are happily swimming in their tanks...no signs of any jumping!  :Smile:

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## ahaetulla

Just to add something to this thread... Pic of a endler x molly from Endlers R Us.



Does anyone know if these hybrids are fertile? Can't seem to find much information on this (I know guppy x endler hybrids are, but what about those of molly x endler parentage?). Hybrid breeding is really messy.. it really should be made common practice for breeders and dealers to label the known ancestry of their stock  :Opps:

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## Quixotic

Do a search on endler hybrid and you get tons of them... mollies x guppies, limia x endlers, platy x endlers... Unfortunately, I am not a major fan of hybrids.

Don't know if mollies x endlers are viable, depends on the chromosomes.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid




> Interspecific hybrids are bred by mating two species, normally from within the same genus. The offspring display traits and characteristics of both parents. The offspring of an interspecific cross may be sterile. Sterility is often attributed to the different number of chromosomes the two species have, for example donkeys have 62 chromosomes, while horses have 64 chromosomes, and mules and hinnies have 63 chromosomes. Mules, hinnies, and other normally sterile interspecific hybrids cannot produce viable gametes because the extra chromosome cannot make a homologous pair at meiosis, meiosis is disrupted, and viable sperm and eggs are not formed.


Note: A mule is the offspring of a male donkey and a female horse. The reverse, the offspring of a male horse and a female donkey, is called a hinny.

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## ahaetulla

Thanks Quixotic for the info and link. I remember reading somewhere that the sterility of hinnies and mules (ie. the number of chromosomes the offspring end up having) is variable. That may apply to fish too. (EDIT: Apparently it does - see discussion here.)

Hybridisation has also been done by herpetologists, cat and dog breeders (not interbreed crossings, but with related undomesticated species) etc etc as well.. When the resulting hybrids are fertile, but sold unlabelled, it causes problems for breeders trying to maintain 'pure stock', much less locality strains. Hopefully, breeders and sellers will be responsible and label their stock!

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## Quixotic

> Hopefully, breeders and sellers will be responsible and label their stock!


Sellers as in LFS/exporters? I doubt most of the LFS/exporters will warm up to labelling the stocks using scientific names anytime soon. So we are probably stuck with common names, which basically doesn't mean anything at all, for quite a while yet.

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## ahaetulla

> Sellers as in LFS/exporters? I doubt most of the LFS/exporters will warm up to labelling the stocks using scientific names anytime soon. So we are probably stuck with common names, which basically doesn't mean anything at all, for quite a while yet.


Actually I was referring to the labelling of hybrids. But as you said, it is unlikely that LFS/fish farms etc would be very interested in labelling the species/locality of their stock. (How many of them even bother labelling with common names?) Then again, websites, books and forums such as this have perhaps made the average hobbyist more discerning. Change would probably be very slow, but "most" LFS and exporters might soon find it in their best interests to label their stock.

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