# Planted Tanks > Aquascaping >  A newbie on a 2 ft tank

## j.c.koh

Hi, 
let me introduce a bit about myself, my name is JC. I'm a newbie on planted tank, the only tank i had was a 10 gallon goldfish tank about 10 years ago. Due to my ignorance and bad advises given by the lfs my tank crashes and all the fishes died. I did a lot of mistakes i didn't know at that time : changing water in the middle of the night when water is super cold, 90% water change, cleaning filter with tap water, overfeeding, overstocking ect. I tried again and failed and then I gave up. I told myself I won't start a tank again unless I know what am i doing. 


All these years I wasn't sure what I want for my next tank. I've been thinking of having a disuses tank but eventually drop the idea because of the large tank require to house them. then a few months back I discovered late Mr. Takashi Amano's work and I must say it's breathtaking! I regretted not knowing him sooner ( i did know who is he but I wasn't into planted tank at that time and didn't take the time to appreciate his work. The impression that he gave me 5 years ago was " oh, that Japanese dude that sells his items at ridiculous high price.") I spent weeks looking through his works and documentaries, I was so impress by his work that it is decided that I want a iwagumi tank to be my next tank. 


The initial plan was to start my tank at Christmas next year as I need a year to learn and gather equipment for the project but I found an offer that I couldn't refuse, someone's selling a 2ft set with lots of accessories for $300! I knew I have to get it, we made a deal yesterday and move them to my house. Now with the change of plans I'm aiming to set up before or after Chinese new year.


Now here's the part that i need help from you big brothers, I have no experiences on planted tanks and I didn't know how to use some of the equipment I have. I would appreciate if you guys could guide me through the set up when it happens, giving me tips on what I should know and troubleshooting any equipment. Thank you.  :Jump for joy: 


There are my loots:

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## Mameshrimps

> Hi, 
> let me introduce a bit about myself, my name is JC. I'm a newbie on planted tank, the only tank i had was a 10 gallon goldfish tank about 10 years ago. Due to my ignorance and bad advises given by the lfs my tank crashes and all the fishes died. I did a lot of mistakes i didn't know at that time : changing water in the middle of the night when water is super cold, 90% water change, cleaning filter with tap water, overfeeding, overstocking ect. I tried again and failed and then I gave up. I told myself I won't start a tank again unless I know what am i doing. 
> 
> 
> All these years I wasn't sure what I want for my next tank. I've been thinking of having a disuses tank but eventually drop the idea because of the large tank require to house them. then a few months back I discovered late Mr. Takashi Amano's work and I must say it's breathtaking! I regretted not knowing him sooner ( i did know who is he but I wasn't into planted tank at that time and didn't take the time to appreciate his work. The impression that he gave me 5 years ago was " oh, that Japanese dude that sells his items at ridiculous high price.") I spent weeks looking through his works and documentaries, I was so impress by his work that it is decided that I want a iwagumi tank to be my next tank. 
> 
> 
> The initial plan was to start my tank at Christmas next year as I need a year to learn and gather equipment for the project but I found an offer that I couldn't refuse, someone's selling a 2ft set with lots of accessories for $300! I knew I have to get it, we made a deal yesterday and move them to my house. Now with the change of plans I'm aiming to set up before or after Chinese new year.
> 
> ...


It doesn't take year to learn it bro... with a good mentor, you can learn it within weeks. All the best and good luck for ya new tank.

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## jackychun

Hi JC! That is a great set of equipment and tools for you to start. I hope you will enjoy the journey with your planted tank. 

The next step would be preparing and designing hardscape. You can search on YouTube for James Findley (The Green Machine), Tropica, George Farmer channels to have more inspiration as well as step by step method that they use to setup the tank, preparing plants, hook up the systems. 

In the meantime, you can also do more research around the forum to get more information about the tank setup too. Cheers! 


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## j.c.koh

Thanks guys : )

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## Urban Aquaria

Wow... that original ADA tank and ADA lightset is worth more than all the other items combined. Plus you even got the cabinet, Co2 system, eheim filter and the glass accessories etc. All for only $300. Thats an incredible deal!  :Well done:

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## tetrakid

I don't mean to pour cold water over your enthusiasm, but my view is that even with the best equipment in the world, there can be no substiitude for know-how and experience. From your description of your previous experience in the hobby, it seems to me you still have not acquired the basics. This hobby is not as easy as many people think it is.

The best way to learn the ropes is to gain experience starting with a $2 packet of mixed platies or guppies available at most LFS. If you can manage to keep them thriving for 6 months or longer, only then should you spend your money to acquire more expensive fish. This may not sound like an attractive proposition, but believe me, it is worthwhile doing. Hope this helps.

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## j.c.koh

> I don't mean to pour cold water over your enthusiasm, but my view is that even with the best equipment in the world, there can be no substiitude for know-how and experience. From your description of your previous experience in the hobby, it seems to me you still have not acquired the basics. This hobby is not as easy as many people think it is.
> 
> The best way to learn the ropes is to gain experience starting with a $2 packet of mixed platies or guppies available at most LFS. If you can manage to keep them thriving for 6 months or longer, only then should you spend your money to acquire more expensive fish. This may not sound like an attractive proposition, but believe me, it is worthwhile doing. Hope this helps.


Hi tetrakid,
Thank you for commenting, no this hobby is not as easy as people think it is, I can understand your concerns of new hobbyists not knowing the amount of time, hard work and dedications needed for fish keeping. Rest assured, i know what to expect from this hobby. I think I know the basics, well, sort of.... I did a lot of reading and forum browsing to learn about fish keeping after my first tank, I do get the idea of water chemistry, tank cycling, temperature, quarantine ect. No "hands on" experiences but the knowledge is there. The only thing I left out where planted tanks. It's like a new subject to me, I dont even know how to turn on my co2 tank and scientific plant names gives me a headache just by looking at them.

I agree that my first tank 10 years ago was a disaster, I was new at that time with zero knowledge for fish keeping, I thought it was a plug and play thing : you pour water in tank, you put fishes in, you on the filter and voila! I was so clueless at that time even if any lfs uncle were to tell me to dose essence of chicken weekly for fishes to thrive I would've done it!

The reason why I started the tank journal is I believe that : knowing the basic theories in driving doesn't mean it's safe to drive on the road on my own, I need mentors to guide me, point me to the right directions when I made a wrong turn. 

I'm aiming to have a fully cycled tank before Chinese new year, so there's still time to learn from you guys before the set up. cheers!

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## j.c.koh

> Wow... that original ADA tank and ADA lightset is worth more than all the other items combined. Plus you even got the cabinet, Co2 system, eheim filter and the glass accessories etc. All for only $300. Thats an incredible deal!



Thanks bro,I never imagine myself owning any ADA stuffs if not for the deal, those things costs an arm and a leg first hand.

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## j.c.koh

Guys I'm planning to do some stone hunting today or tomorrow, not to buy but to get inspiration and do some budget calculations. I'm looking for ryuoh stone for my 2ft tank, I think the hardscape I have in mind at the moment is the classic iwagumi 5 stone formation. 

Any fish farms to recommend?

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## ACG

Try Green Chapter or Sunpet and others more for exposure. There are other LFS to hunt too. 

Enjoy and have fun. 





> Guys I'm planning to do some stone hunting today or tomorrow, not to buy but to get inspiration and do some budget calculations. I'm looking for ryuoh stone for my 2ft tank, I think the hardscape I have in mind at the moment is the classic iwagumi 5 stone formation. 
> 
> Any fish farms to recommend?

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## jackychun

I have seen Fishy Business have stocked in lots of beautiful rocks and driftwoods. You can go there to take a look, too. 

For Iwagumi setup, as I understand it will be more challenging to get the balance and might have algae issue since not a lot of fast growing plants being planted. So just need more opinions from the masters here to get it done properly. 


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## jackychun

I have seen Fishy Business have stocked in lots of beautiful rocks and driftwoods. You can go there to take a look, too. 

For Iwagumi setup, as I understand it will be more challenging to get the balance and might have algae issue since not a lot of fast growing plants being planted. So just need more opinions from the masters here to get it done properly. 


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## j.c.koh

Thanks guys, I'll visit one of them tomorrow. 

@jackychun 
I understand the challenges of a iwagumi tank, some refer them as the hardest one to master amomg all aquascape because of balance and algae issues like you said. I'm still doing researchs on it, might change to a different scape if I'm not up to the challenge... We'll see

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## j.c.koh

Just returned from seaview and sunpet, grey stones over there are too small for 2ft. Some are OK but I couldn't one that fit the role for the ''main stone'', and they costs $15 a kg  :Shocked: 
Wifey doesn't like the idea of paying for stone..

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## hann

> Just returned from seaview and sunpet, grey stones over there are too small for 2ft. Some are OK but I couldn't one that fit the role for the ''main stone'', and they costs $15 a kg 
> Wifey doesn't like the idea of paying for stone..


I went to fishy business a while ago and they have a wide selection of stones to choose from. Many types are at $5/kg. Saw brown river stones which look grey. You may want to head there to take a look.

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## j.c.koh

Thanks hann, sounds good. I'll go and have a look next week  :Very Happy:

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## j.c.koh

Guys, I need help.

I have the used media that came along with the filter canister when making the purchase.
I washed it with tap water, set it aside thinking of throwing it away and replacing it with new ones.
today when I went window shopping I found out that the media can be rather expensive.

My question is : do I use back the old media? I could have used the money on something else. The previous owner told me he put salt in his water when keeping goldfish, I was afraid it might alter the water parameters of my new tank.

please advise shi fus.

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## boofeng

> My question is : do I use back the old media? I could have used the money on something else. The previous owner told me he put salt in his water when keeping goldfish, I was afraid it might alter the water parameters of my new tank.
> 
> please advise shi fus.


You mean table salt, sodium chloride, right? It's highly soluble. There should be a negligible amount of sodium ions on the media, even if it has high CEC (cation exchange capacity), which most bio-filter-media don't. If you're really worried, a 24 hour soak in tap water should remove most of it (Na+ sodium ions are readily replaced by 2+ ions like calcium Ca2+ and magnesium Mg2+). I'd say not to bother, though. Chances are it's fine even if you didn't wash.

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## j.c.koh

@boofeng,
I think he's using API aquarium salt.

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## boofeng

> @boofeng,
> I think he's using API aquarium salt.


That's mostly NaCl too, plus other minerals (definitely calcium, magnesium, potassium, probably sulfate, etc). As far as I know it's safe because none of the substances are toxic to typical freshwater aquarium life at the concentrations you'll have, and if you're doing a high-tech (CO2 + high light) planted tank, the ferts you'll add will probably contribute far more mineral content than what is present in the filter media.

I might worry if I'm trying to run a soft water set up (holding plants/animals that are highly adapted for soft water), but definitely not for a high-tech planted.

Welcome back to the hobby and all the best in your journey  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> Just returned from seaview and sunpet, grey stones over there are too small for 2ft. Some are OK but I couldn't one that fit the role for the ''main stone'', and they costs $15 a kg 
> Wifey doesn't like the idea of paying for stone..


You could also check at landscaping companies which supply rocks... like the rock distributor at 40 Jalan Lekar:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...40-Jalan-Lekar

Still have to pay for rocks... but at only 60-70 cents a kg, it's a tiny fraction of the prices at LFS and there are much larger pieces available.

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## Urban Aquaria

> My question is : do I use back the old media? I could have used the money on something else. The previous owner told me he put salt in his water when keeping goldfish, I was afraid it might alter the water parameters of my new tank.
> 
> please advise shi fus.


If the previous owner used normal aquarium salt, then its probably just a theraputic concentration and safe for most freshwater livestock. Just a wash and rinse will usually clear out most of the residual salt from the media.

As you do water changes in the tank, it will also gradually dilute any remaining traces of salt that leach out of the media.

If you are concerned, you can also boil the media too. It will help clear out any residual stuff and chemicals. Some people make it a point to boil used bio-media by default to kill critters, bad bacteria, pests and algae before usage too.

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## j.c.koh

@*urban aquaria,* 70cents a kg!? Will definitely check that place out!

I might boil the media, he might have dose something else to his tank, can never be too careful.

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## tetrakid

> @*urban aquaria,* 70cents a kg!? Will definitely check that place out!
> 
> I might boil the media, he might have dose something else to his tank, can never be too careful.


Boiling for a longer period eg. 30 min. simmer may be more effective than say 5 min. Also, adding crude salt to the water raises the boiling point thus raising the heating effect. Thereafter, soaking the media for a couple more days in clean water gives further cleansing. Heating the media for hours in very hot sun also has a cleansing effect.

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid
Thanks for the tips bro, going to use method a week before the actual set up. Meanwhile I'll just put it inside the cabinet.

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## fireblade

wow! what a good deal! Looking forward to your setup! 
Have you decided what soil to use?
any progress yet?
for the medias, I think after soaking in hotwater or after boiling should be safe to use.. no need to worry too much.

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## j.c.koh

Thanks fireblade,
won't be progressing until next month, wifey has been controlling my monthly spending budget.  :Crying:  

anyway the substrate I planned on getting are:

1). ADA substrate base combo set. 
I saw freshnmarine selling these additives in lose pack, like a few scoops of every ADA additives in zip lock bags for $45.


2). ADA power sand special S 2L


3). ADA aqua soil amazonia (powder) 9L


4). ADA aquasoil amazonia (powder) 3L
as a back up in case 9L is not enough, might need high slopes at the back. must find a LFS who is willing to let me refund it if not used.

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## jackychun

What is the dimensions of your tank JC? If it is 60x30x36cm then 9L of ADA Aquasoil should be enough. If the tank is higher, yes, you might need more soil. 

For item 1 and 2 in your list, it would be good to have, but not compulsory. So less spending, less complain from wife. Haha!


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## j.c.koh

Thanks for the advise Jacky, 

I'm afraid of the idea of going down to the lfs in the middle of scaping shall I need more soil, so I've a small pack as a backup. Now that I think of it, 12L worth of soil in a 60p might be overkill. Maybe I think too much lol. 

Item 1 and 2 will be last on my list, if I went over budget I will remove them. Problems with these 2 items are: if I don't add them during set up I won't be able to add them in future unless I tear down the tank and recape. I'm reading reviews on them, if the benefits is not worth the money in the long run I will remove them.

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## fireblade

I used 1.5 pack of 9L of amazonia for my 2feet tank and I think the back is not high enough.. :P
instead of power sand, use lava chips and that willl save a lot!!

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## tetrakid

Do be wary of stuffing a 2ft fish tank with a lot of plants and decorative material, resulting in only a small body of water remaining in the tank. Visually, it may be a big tank, but when one tskes into account volume displaced by the items, only a small volume of water is available for maintaining a healthy ecosystem, which translates into stress and sub-optimal conditions for fish.

To address this human tendency to overlook this aspect of fish-keeping, one can simply opt for a larger tank.

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## j.c.koh

@fireblade,
Thanks I'll check the lava chips out during next shopping trip.

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid,

Thanks for the warning, I'll try not to use too much of them. 

My current set up plans are, 
Hardscape :
Aquasoil 9L. Maximum 12L. depending on the stones I aquire. 
Ryuoh stone, five stone formation. I hope it doesn't take up too much volume. 

Planting: 
Foreground, HC cuba
Background, Japanese hairglass
Might have riccia on rock. 

Livestock : neon tetras and green neon tetras. 
Amano shrimps as cleaning crew. 
Still deciding what other shrimps to put in as most fancy shrimps requires chiller. 

I'll use the remaining water volume to determine how many livestock to put in. The last thing I want is for the fish to suffer. 

Above are just a rough sketch, might change over time.

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## toolkit

Hi, 

Welcome to the hobby j.c.koh! I started this fascinating hobby around Oct about 2 years ago.
Aquascaping takes time but the rewards are worth it!

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## j.c.koh

Thanks toolkit, glad to be part of it!

Right now I'm still learning and buying/sourcing the items I need. Week 1 & 2 of November I'll be doing major purchase. If everything goes according to plan I'll be setting up during week 3 or 4.

Words can't describe the joy and excitement I'm feeling right now, hands getting more itchy as times goes by. guess only fishkeeping hobbyist would understand.

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## eeJamboy

Hey j.c.koh welcome back to the hobby! 

Note that it is only a 2ft tank. After putting in the litres of soil and your rock hardscape to achieve the iwagumi motif, there is not so much volume left for water which in turn will affect your choices of fauna.

Nonetheless, 2ft is a good start. And with all those equipment on hand and the research, you should be on your way.

Just make sure the wife is not around while boiling ur media.

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## j.c.koh

Hi jamboy, 
You guys are definitely right about this one. 
As I was looking at tank pics on the Internet for inspiration I realized most tank that have high slopes had one thing in common : most of the tank are 3ft and above. 

So even if they dump 3 x 9L Aquasoil they still have a lot of water volume to work with unlike a 15 gallon tank. thank you guys for pointing that out for me.

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## j.c.koh

An update on my progress.

Bought this few items off the internet last week.
I copied the items for bro jackychun when browsing through his journal. :Opps: 




planing of getting fertilizer tomorrow but there are many brands and types to choose from ( ADA, Seachem etc. flourish, flourish excel, flourish iron, flourish potassium etc. )
so I think it's best to consult the experts here first before buying.

Assuming I'm sticking to the plan of having hc cuba, Japanese hair grass and riccia for my tank, which the fertilizers sould I be getting?
Any help would be appreciated. :s:

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## jackychun

JC, I like the "fertilizer" on the left corner of the picture you posted. Hehehe.  

For me, I have used Seachem fertilizers products since beginning till now. So far so good, plants have developed very well. Just follow the instructions accordingly and calculate to dose daily. 

Most important I think is Iron and Potassium at the beginning period. You can refer to my post regarding the dosing schedule. 


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## DreamerX5521

If you want keep thing simple, then go for ada fert.
If you are hardworking, then go for seachem.
If you want controlling of what you dose, then go for dry fert or your own liquid solution.
So far, none of them are perfect for everything, just pick one route that suite you/your expectation.

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## j.c.koh

@jacky, 
That '' fertilizer '' is highly recommended to dose at least once a week. ^^

I guess I'll go for seachem. Ada too expensive. if one day I became lazy, maybe I will switch.

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## eeJamboy

Good initiative with the master test kit.. *thumbs

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## j.c.koh

@eeJamboy,  :Beer Time: 



I went to the lfs at yishun blk 934 yesterday for inquires on co2 tank refill.
the staffs over there told me it takes 2 to 3 days for the refill and best if I remove the regulator 1st before sending in to prevent any possible damage.
Preparing to send it in on monday, I went home trying to remove it. I 1st did a quick googling and found a video that said something about relieving the working pressure down to 0 PSI before removing it for safety reasons, he did that by unscrewing the blue bonnet of the regulator until the reading on the gauges drops to 0. 

I did what he was doing in the video, I start adjusting the bonnet. I kept turning and turning and turning, no reaction.... reading's still at 1000 PSI right, 50 PSI left.
so I thought to myself I'll just keep unscrewing until something happens, then suddenly all working pressure got released at once giving a very loud sharp sound, something flew out in split seconds, think it's because I unscrewed the whole bonnet! I manage to find the spring on the floor when I combed through the floor and wonder if its the only part flying out.

I'm going to post the picture of the bonnet parts and I need experts to tell me if the set is complete or not, if it's not I'm going to continue searching for the missing part tomorrow.
am I doing it right?  :Huh?:

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## AQMS

Actually removing the regulator is easy, you need to unscrew the regular from the tank not unscrewing the blue bonnet. Once you unscrew the hex nut that attached the regulator to the tank the psi will automatically drop. So what is missing , i don't know,it could be a few items or it is nothing.

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## BFG

I was alerted to this thread .

JC , you nearly got hurt using this equipment ! What you need to do 1st is to tighten the big knob to close the co2 supply to the regulator . After tightening the knob , then loosen the nut connecting the regulator to the co2 tank , which is at the back of the regulator . The nut is behind the 2 dials/meter reading thingy .

Have you done this yet ?

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## BFG

JC , I have never opened the part you opened before so I do not know what is inside . I also do not want to open it as it might have a torque rating to close it back in to prevent it from unscrewing itself due to the high pressure . You may or may not need a torque wrench to close the screw , valve and spring thingy . It's way out of my experience . You had a lucky escape today ! If that were to hit you directly , you might get hurt real bad !

What if there were children in the path of the flying screw nut ? They might get hurt too ! That's scary !

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## Urban Aquaria

Looks like you might have to visit an LFS selling the same regulator system and ask to look into one of the units, compare and see if the parts match.

Anyways... to prepare for Co2 gas refills, i also never open the blue cover. My method is to simply close the main cylinder valve (the large grey knob on top), and then switch on the solenoid and open the needle valve to release any trapped leftover gas, then unscrew and remove the solenoid regulator unit.

Btw, you could also bring your cylinder to Co2 refill places like BioPlast at Boon Keng Rd, they do on-the-spot refills. No need to wait a few days. Saves having to do 2 trips.

Just curious, if your main gauge is already showing 1,000 PSI it's probably still containing a good amount of gas, not really necessary refill it yet. Can still use for quite a while. Usually most Co2 cylinder are refilled up to 1,000-1,100 PSI.

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## j.c.koh

@BFG,

Ya I turned the big knob to Close before unscrewing to bonnet. To be honest I had a bad feeling so I waited for everyone to sleep before doing it. I sat by the side when unscrewing the bonnet so I don't get hit if anything came flying out. I guess I was lucky yesterday, if I put my face in front of the gauges to check when unscrewing I might have lost a teeth or two. 

The pervious owner bought it at natural aquarium, someone told me they did co2 tank on the spot I think I'll go there, get them to look at the regulator as well.

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## j.c.koh

@urban aquaria 

The owner told me it's left with about 1/4 full only so I was thinking of getting it filled up before the set up.

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## j.c.koh

Oops i remembered it wrongly. Na only do 1 to 1 exchange. I guess I'm going down to boon keng.

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## BFG

JC , heed the bad feeling next time , instinct is there for a reason . Saved me and my company from a huge mistake happening the last time it came up for me . If you are not sure , just ask in the relevant section , its free anyway . Luckily , you came out scots free , it might not be the next time . And please , do take your time in this hobby , its not a race and there are no finishing line ahead .

Hope this helps !

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## BFG

JC , heed the bad feeling next time , instinct is there for a reason . Saved me and my company from a huge mistake happening the last time it came up for me . If you are not sure , just ask in the relevant section , its free anyway . Luckily , you came out scots free , it might not be the next time . And please , do take your time in this hobby , its not a race and there are no finishing line ahead .

Hope this helps !

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## hann

> Oops i remembered it wrongly. Na only do 1 to 1 exchange. I guess I'm going down to boon keng.


I am curious. Why didn't you want to have a 1-to-1 exchange for refill? No waiting time. I normally bring my whole CO2 cylinder and solenoid down and Chan will me to swap the cylinder. Though I have been using the CO2 setup for a few years, i am still a noob in this CO2 thingy. I still don't dare to unscrew it myself.

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## AQMS

Jc if you are staying at the east side there is another co2 refill company.

Leong Chew Industrial Gas Pte Ltd
Address: Blk 3013 Bedok Ind Pk E #01-2108
Phone: +65 64412108

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## j.c.koh

@BFG
noted, I'll be more careful next time. :Opps: 


@hann
it's just that I like the idea of getting back my own tank. but you do have a point,
it's not a aluminum tank and it's straight from NA, going to NA would be more practical. Thanks.


@AQMS
No I live at the north side, but it's still good to know. thank you ^^

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## SGDiscus

> @BFG
> noted, I'll be more careful next time.
> 
> 
> @hann
> it's just that I like the idea of getting back my own tank. but you do have a point,
> it's not a aluminum tank and it's straight from NA, going to NA would be more practical. Thanks.
> 
> 
> ...


Hi all, I need to qualify that I am not an expert in co2 regulators. 

BUT I am in an industrial sector. I can tell you that the 1000 psi is about 68 bar. 68 bar is equivalent to 6,800,000 Newton per metre2 or 680,000 kg per m2. That's alot of pressure. We have had serious/fatal injuries on people who go hit by bolts/flanges at pressure less than 68 bar.

So I would suggest that you inform whoever is going to top up your tank about what you did so that they can do the necessary check. Even if it is 'cleared', I suggest that before you switched on the co2, please turn it away and let it face a wall. Be safe.

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## j.c.koh

@SGDiscus
thank you, I'll be going down to NA on Wednesday and ask them to help me check on the regulator to see if it's still safe for use.
never again would I turn that bonnet!

This is the video I saw before attempting the removal :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxawOueZAuo 

step 3 is where it got me, the video was blurry and his hands are blocking the regulator most of the time. I assumed he was turning the bonnet to release the pressure.
I was very tired on that day and just wanna get it done and go to bed.

from now onwards I will be extra careful when handling equitments like that and I wont take things for granted anymore.

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## Urban Aquaria

> This is the video I saw before attempting the removal :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxawOueZAuo 
> 
> step 3 is where it got me, the video was blurry and his hands are blocking the regulator most of the time. I assumed he was turning the bonnet to release the pressure.
> I was very tired on that day and just wanna get it done and go to bed.
> 
> from now onwards I will be extra careful when handling equitments like that and I wont take things for granted anymore.


There are many different regulator designs, that regulator in the video has an adjustable tuning knob to adjust the working pressure, its different from the regulator that you have which has a fixed working pressure, which isn't meant to be turned.

You can see this example of the regulator which was used in the video:



Notice that it has the setscrew (point #8 ) to adjust the dispensing/working pressure. The ones with fixed working pressure that we use don't have that, so that cover part should not be touched.

Anyways, luckily no one got hurt and you now know the difference, so you can operate it more safely from here on.

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## SGDiscus

I saw the video. Yes, it was misleading. If Urban Aquaria had not pointed out that the regulator in the video is a different one from the one you are using, I would have made the same mistake too.

----------


## ACG

For safety purpose, I may replace a new regulator to have a peace of mind. My family members safety come first.

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## tetrakid

@jckoh
CO2 is desirable only for serious hobbyists who have a lot of plants in their setup, eg aquascaping Such hobbyists are more like 'aqua gardeners. If one's interest is in that area, by all means use CO2 equipment. Then fishkeeping would become a secondary consideration.

If one's interest is in fishkeeping, then the well-being of the fish should be of paramount concern. This is because fish and other life forms eg. essential bacteria, in a tank needs copious amounts of oxygen to thrive well. The presence of high CO2 content in the environment then becomes detrimental to their survival.

Thus it s important to consider one's priority and preference in the hobby before embarking on the use of aquatic equipment, bearing in mind that fish and plants in a TANK have conflicting needs as.mentioned.

----------


## DreamerX5521

I agreed with ACG too. Safest is to get new regulator if budget is not much of a concern. Don't play play with co2 tank, it is a gas bomb that could get someone killed if not handle properly.

----------


## j.c.koh

@ACG, DreamerX5521

it's has been bugging me too. 
but I'll bring it over to NA today to check. If they have the slightest doubts about the regulator I'll throw it away.
Selling it away would bring risk to others it's against my morals.
If they say everything's fine I'll make the decisions from there.

Base on the experience I had from the "accident" I think it might still be ok,
the "explosion" is caused by mishandling as I deliberately unscrew the parts that I'm not purpose to.
The bonnet takes more than 10 revolutions to unscrew and with the piston and o-ring intact, it's very hard to unscrew it even by hand.

So I'm thinking if I plan to reuse it, I would tie a sponge around the bonnet for safety, then I'll check it once every 4 days for a 2 month.
If i detect the bonnet is unscrewing by itself causes by the pressure, even by 1/8 of a revolution in 4 days it's going to end up in the bin.

I'll update you guys later on the outcome.

----------


## j.c.koh

@tetrakid, thanks for the reminder.

the tank is not going to be a fish-only tank so I think the co2 tank is definitely a must have.
As for the set up, it's still pending as I'm still exploring every possible theme that might interest me.

I'm in no rush to get it up and running asap as I do not want to regret after 2 months for not picking the theme that I really want.
gathering equiments 1st is important to me because once I've decided what I want, I'm able to start immediately. 
but of cause the equipments have to be related to a planted tank aquarium. 

meanwhile I will continue searching for the answers I seek.

----------


## j.c.koh

Just came back from NA, Chan told me it's safe to use. He said that 1000 psi is not powerful enough to unscrew the cap on it's own, at most there's gonna leakage. He told me to observe the reading for 12 hours, if there's no dropping in working pressure then I'm good to go.

----------


## fireblade

good to hear that! maybe you can add in some white tape before screwing back?

----------


## j.c.koh

@Fireblade,
Can't do that now as the regulator is already mounted on. Unscrewing will cause the same thing to happen. Future refill when I dismount the regulator I will add in the white tape. ^^

----------


## DreamerX5521

Like what UA has mentioned, you can dismount the regulator from the cylinder by:
1. Turn off cylinder tank main valve
2. Switch on regulator to release the remaining co2 gas in the regulator
3. When the pressure readings drop to zero, then you can dismount the regulator from the cylinder.
This is what i'm doing for my co2 set too.
Since you are in special case, i think you should observe the reading before and after turn on the cylinder main valve, after you mount the regulator. It should be a change in reading. Else, better check if the pressure guage is working correctly.

----------


## j.c.koh

After almost 24 hour, the reading seems normal : 1000psi left, 45 psi right. I'll gonna put it aside until needed. 

@dreamerx5521,
I a bit scare leh lol!
Its like the Chinese saying : once you seem a ghost, you'll be afraid of the dark. Maybe I do it next week.

----------


## tetrakid

Do post some pictures of your fish tank soon.

----------


## j.c.koh

@tetrakid,
okie  :Jump for joy:

----------


## j.c.koh

I'll like to update some progress that I had made today:





With the blessing of my wifey, I went on a solo adventure of some rock hunting at 40 Jalan Lekar.
I took home total of 16kg and I paid $16. what a steal!

I'll like to thank bro urban aquaria for telling me the place.  :Smug:  
If not I would have paid premium price for the same thing. 

On my way back I met up with bro james for his fertilizers.
some I'm not sure if it's needed, but he's selling everything for cheap, 
I brought it from him. I'll resell those that I don't need.

----------


## jackychun

Good progress, JC! Should be very exciting process right now!!!


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## jamesmj

hey jc, the rocks looks good. 

Thank you for your support for the fertilizers. If not for you it may be kept in my storeroom for very long. 

I just started this hobby this year march and still learning, but this hobby got the shuang and happy feeling when the plants start to grow.

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## fireblade

wow !! nice purchase on the rocks!! too bad that time when I was there no gray rocks for sale...

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## Ivan Choo

Do note that those rocks **may** alter the PH of your tank water. You can do a quick test by using some white vinegar on the rocks, if it fizzles then it'll likely make your water hard. They are still usable, just that you have to be aware it will happen.

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## jamesmj

> Do note that those rocks **may** alter the PH of your tank water. You can do a quick test by using some white vinegar on the rocks, if it fizzles then it'll likely make your water hard. They are still usable, just that you have to be aware it will happen.



Just to ask, by hard means alkaline? 

Thanks.

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## Ivan Choo

@jamesmj yes, by hard I mean increase your PH, as the rocks may leach calcium into your water column. Generally this is a non-issue unless your PH is at extreme ends, or if you're keeping plants or fauna that prefers soft water.

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## j.c.koh

@Jackychun,
Now that the rock purchase are done, the rest shouldn't be too psychical demanding.

When at CCK, I managed to get hold of the book you recommend at the library, "The prefect aquarium".
that is one of the "better" books out there, it explains things in great details, even list out the pros and cons of each items.
most books just give you general answers without explaining too much.  :Well done:  :Well done:

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## j.c.koh

@fireblade, jamesmj,
next day when I woke up whole body ache lol. 

bro thanks for selling, now I'm able to test out different fertilizers without paying retail price.
Next week when I'm free I'll go check out those LFS you recommend. :Jump for joy:

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## j.c.koh

@Ivan Choo,

okie, I will test it tomorrow after I give it a wash.
I remembered reading somewhere that those are lime stones, most likely will alter the PH,
he also said that ADA aquasoil should be able to counter it.

----------


## jackychun

> @Jackychun,
> Now that the rock purchase are done, the rest shouldn't be too psychical demanding.
> 
> When at CCK, I managed to get hold of the book you recommend at the library, "The prefect aquarium".
> that is one of the "better" books out there, it explains things in great details, even list out the pros and cons of each items.
> most books just give you general answers without explaining too much.


Good to know that bro!  And yes, after reading that book, you will be more confident on what you do since the basic is there. 

You can also look for some book from Takashi Amano to get more inspiration from his works. 


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## j.c.koh

guys I need help.  :Exasperated:  :Exasperated: 



I've been scrubbing some of the rocks from 1pm till now. The yellow stains on two of the rocks can't be remove, like it's fused on it or something.
No matter how long or hard I scrub it's still there, soaking it in boiling water for 30 mins doesn't help either.

any bros with experience can shed me some light?  ::smt051:  

Right now I just soak them in boiling water again and set it aside.

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## jamesmj

@jc koh. I think the yellow "stains" are part of rocks. If you scrub like crazy, i think the rock will become smaller by a few millimetres. Just guessing. Hope someone can clarifies.

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## jackychun

In my view, if you cannot scrub it off, just leave it as it is part of nature. I might look even better with that. 


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## fireblade

don't spend too much time trying to scrap things off if it doesn't come out, end of the day, you might bury the yellow part in soil or the yellow part is facing the back hence cannot be seen...

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## Urban Aquaria

I guess this just depends on how you prefer the colors of the rocks, if you don't like the yellow stains, just try to specifically pick and use those individual rock pieces without the stains (or those with less stains), and position them to minimize the view of the stains.

You could also try scrubbing the stain parts with H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide, can get from most local pharmacies), its a common method to remove stains from household hard surfaces and items, so it could also work on rocks too. Just make sure to wash and soak the rocks again for a while after that.

That being said, usually after being in the aquarium for a while, those large surfaces of rocks will also eventually be covered in algae anyways (hopefully the nice green fuzzy ones), so any odd stains will also be hidden too.  :Very Happy:

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## tetrakid

When the stones are covered with algae in time, the stained or discolored parts do add some nice tonal effect to the stone, though it may not look pleasant in the raw.
Some so-called stains may be fossilised matter embedded into the rock and thus cannot be removed by scrubbing but only by chiselling or cutting.

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## jiajuen900

The yellow stain should be part of the rocks mineral content!

From the looks of it, the rocks seem to be in different shades, might be different types of rocks.

When picking rocks, it might help to wet them a little to see if they will 'match' in the tank! The color tones change when the rocks are wet.

Looking forward to updates!

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## j.c.koh

@Urban Aquaria,

Just bought it. :Well done:  :Well done: 



But I'll try with lemon juice first. If cannot then I'll proceed to using H2O2.

Will keep you guys updated.

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## j.c.koh

guys, I need help with some brown/green water issues,

ok I'm 12 days into my new set up tank.
the water has been a bit greenish/brownish since the first day.
I've been doing 30-50% water change daily, it will look better after the water change but turns greenish/brownish again the next day.

this is the water parameter before the water change:

water temperature at 29 degrees most time 
ph - 6.6 - 6.8
ammonia - 0.25ppm
nitrite - 5.00ppm
nitrate - 20ppm

been setting the photo period to 6 hours daily, co2 at 3bps.
MC and sp mini is doing ok, there are some melting on the MC leaves but they are spreading out.
I'm dosing with ADA fertilizer, 3 pumps of step 1 and brightly k daily.

is the color of the water normal at the initial stage and will disappear over time or do I need to increase/decrease something out of my daily routine to control it?
thanks guys.

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## aza

Get some floating plants to absorb excess nutrients? I don't recommend fully dosing ferts when first starting up a planted tank until the plants fill in n have established well. Also, try to plant more plants from the start, especially stem plants since most are fast growers meaning they suck up excess nutrients well.

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## fireblade

the main rock looks great!
wow .. the spread of MC is like fire!
try changing 50% of water and see how.. alternatively you can add JBL Clearol to clear things up a little..
55044.png

you might green water coming.. watch your lighting hours..

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## Ivan Choo

Some suggestions based on my experience:


- 6 hours photo period is conservative, I'll stick to it unless the MC start growing upwards or you've got bad growth. You can up the lighting when things stabilises and when you want more aggressive growth
- Slowly reduce fert dosing, say -20% for a few days, observe and adjust. It seems to me your nutrients are in excess now.
- Up the water change frequency. WC 30% every 3 days is not excessive.
- I think Ammonia is the main trigger for green water. WC helps keep it in check until your tank stablises.
- Get some floaters to help soak up excess nutrients, it's cheap (less than S$1). It may block some lights but consider it a temporary measure. Avoid duckweeds.
- Water change, more.
- If green water do break out, my advise is go the UV route; it is by far the fastest and most effective counter measure. See my post http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...lessons-learnt
- Did I mention water changes?
- Once you start to introduce livestocks, you may need to adjust the CO2.
- Test kits provide a rough insight to your tank's chemistry, that's all to it. They are not accurate, and can be a red herring. Learn to read plant growth and formulate your own regime.
- Do the above until water quality and growth improves; adjust accordingly until you find a good balance of light + nutrients + maintenance. There's no gold standard, and it's always a moving target.
- Water change!

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## jackychun

Great advice from Ivan! Ya. It seems like nutrients are excessive in your tank. 

So do more water change if you see green water. Tropica recommends to do even up to 75% water change every second day until water is clear again. If after that still see green water then turn off the light for 2 days and change 75% water before and after. 

Also as other sifus said to put floating plants. That is very wise since you are having Iwagumi style and might not want to plant some fast growing one in the tank. 

Nevertheless, MC is growing very well now.  Great job! 


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## j.c.koh

I like the idea of buying some floaters too. 
What is the proper way to introduce them to tank? 
Don't want any pests to get in the tank..

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## aza

UA has a sticky on plant quarantine procedures somewhere in this forum. Very helpful when I first started  :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

> I like the idea of buying some floaters too. 
> What is the proper way to introduce them to tank? 
> Don't want any pests to get in the tank..


Just rinse them in tap water and inspect each of the floating plant leaves from top to bottom, trim and toss away the melting ones and those with obvious signs of snail or critter eggs (usually they look like jelly blobs or tiny cocoons). 

Put the cleaned floating plants in a container of water dosed with higher concentration of your choice of anti-pest and anti-algae chemical treatments. Put some light on the container and let the floating plants sit for 1-2 weeks. Observe if there are any more pest critters or algae that pop out. If you feel its okay, then can intro the floating plants into your tank. 

Note that this is still not a 100% guaranteed solution though, but it can help to greatly reduce the risk of introducing most pests.  :Smile:

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## j.c.koh

Wow! I didn't know so much need to be done for proper introduction of floaters.. 

Mind me asking, if I throw a big marimo ball into the tank, will it act as a good nutrients absorber on par with the floaters?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Wow! I didn't know so much need to be done for proper introduction of floaters..


Well, all those steps are optional. As with most LFS plants, they could also just be dumped directly into a tank without any treatment or quarantine... which is what most people do. 

Just that later when annoying pest critters and tough algae start to pop up and run rampant in the tank, then the epic fun battles begin.  :Grin: 





> Mind me asking, if I throw a big marimo ball into the tank, will it act as a good nutrients absorber on par with the floaters?


While marimo balls do take up abit of nutrients, due to their ultra slow growth rate, the amount of nutrients used is far less than than floating plants with their super fast growth rates. The overall effects of marimo balls on nutrient levels tends to be very minimal.

If you need plants to really help to remove excess nutrients, best to go for fast growing stem plants or floating plants.

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## j.c.koh

@urban aquaria, 

Guess there's no shortcut to it, can't risk it lol 

What type of floaters do you recommend and how many do I need for my case?

----------


## j.c.koh

today when I went home to do the water change the unexpected happened.....



MY TANK IS FULLY CYCLED!!!!!!

I thought the average cycle time is 4 to 7 weeks, I didn't expect mine to be so fast, it took 2 weeks.
I swear when I tested it 3 days ago the nitrite was still bright purple, today it dropped to 0ppm like a rock.
I couldn't believe it at first, I poured away the mixtures and did a second testing with the same result.

Now what do I do?? I have so many questions...
I still have the excess nutrients water issues, can I add the fishes 1st follow by the floaters after a week of quarantine or do I have to solve the water issues 1st before adding the fishes?
how long can the tank remain fishless until the bb starts dying off? 
what should I add 1st? shrimps or fishes? I read we need to intro them bit by bit, is 10 tetras at 1 go too much?

----------


## aza

Do you have algae crew in your tank? If not can start with some ottos and yamatos. But of course do this after you solved the green water issue first.

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## Urban Aquaria

> What type of floaters do you recommend and how many do I need for my case?


You can try various common floating plants like frogbits, salvinia minima, dwarf water lettuce, red root floaters etc... though from my experience so far, salvinia minima has been one of the easiest to grow and also easy to remove when required.

Just for reference, this is what they look like (their small leaves are usually around 1cm size):



Photo from Google Images.

You don't need much to start off with, just a few healthy bunches will do. They will quickly grow enough to cover the water surface of your tank, then you will be harvesting and discarding handfuls of them every week.  :Very Happy:

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## Urban Aquaria

> today when I went home to do the water change the unexpected happened.....
> 
> MY TANK IS FULLY CYCLED!!!!!!
> 
> I thought the average cycle time is 4 to 7 weeks, I didn't expect mine to be so fast, it took 2 weeks.
> I swear when I tested it 3 days ago the nitrite was still bright purple, today it dropped to 0ppm like a rock.
> I couldn't believe it at first, I poured away the mixtures and did a second testing with the same result.


2 weeks is unusually fast for a tank using ADA Aquasoil to cycle completely. Parameters usually spike up and down during the initial few weeks of a tank cycle. In such cases, it may be a good idea to let the tank run for another few more days or another week and test the parameters again. See if the measurements are still consistent. If there is another spike in parameters then it means the cycle and parameters are still not really stable yet, need to give it more time.





> I still have the excess nutrients water issues, can I add the fishes 1st follow by the floaters after a week of quarantine or do I have to solve the water issues 1st before adding the fishes?


If after another week and the parameters are still consistent and stable, then you can look at adding in small batches of livestock in progressive stages.

As the nitrates are at an elevated level during this initial period, just do a series of water changes to reduce it to more moderate levels (ie. 10-20ppm, lighter orange color), before acclimating and introducing in the livestock.





> how long can the tank remain fishless until the bb starts dying off?


Since you are using ADA Amazonia aquasoil, it'll actually still be slowly releasing ammonia over many weeks and months (the cycled beneficial bacteria just converts new ammonia to nitrates quickly, hence ammonia and nitrite shows up as 0 on the test kit), so the beneficial bacteria will still have ample "food" to sustain and multiply for quite a long time more. So no worries about not introducing livestock yet.





> what should I add 1st? shrimps or fishes? I read we need to intro them bit by bit, is 10 tetras at 1 go too much?


Usually once a planted tank is cycled and stable, most people start to introduce in the algae eaters, let them get to work clearing up algae and debris in the tank. Fishes can be added anytime as they are mostly just ornamental anyways, no actual real jobs to do except swimming around eating and pooping.  :Grin: 

Introducing 10 small fishes (ie. tetras) per batch is generally okay in a 2ft planted tank, a fully cycled tank can usually handle those small increasing amounts of bio-load.

Do note that shrimps are more sensitive to fluctuating water parameters in a newly cycled tanks (compared to fishes), so do make sure to get healthy ones and acclimate them well before introduction.

----------


## j.c.koh

went over to AA for the floaters just now, came home empty handed.. 
he told me to use the massive water change method....
he said use floaters only when there's fishes inside the tank and doing massive water change will hurt them.
he said floaters will block out the lights and affect the MC and sp mini.

he said since the tank is still fishless might as well nuke the tank to get rid of the problem 1st.
he suggest changing the water 90% every 2 days. aquasky will be set to 3 hours per day and then slowly increase to 6 hours in a 1 to 2 weeks period.
dosage of the fertilizer step-1 and brightly k @ 3 pumps a day as per normal.
after a week plus after the improvement then start worrying about the stability of the tank's bb.

I really hard decision for me. one is to wipe out half of the bb I worked so hard to establish and the other this to let the plants suffer from lack of lights......

will decide tomorrow.

----------


## tetrakid

Too drastic a water change eg 90% may affect the integrity of the bacteria. It may be good to do 25% water changes spread out over a few days until the nitrate level is acceptably low. In any case, such water changes would become the norm even when the tank is inhabited,

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## Ivan Choo

Floaters don't have to block out much light as you can control how many to add and remove. Besides floaters will usually be pushed to the edges by the flow thus the important areas in the center won't be blocked. Also floaters won't block 100% of the light and render the base in total darkness. Floaters can soak up the excess nutrients fast since they are not co2 limited, and thats why we use them in this case. 

Everyone has different takes based on their experience, there's no right or wrong. There's a lot of science involved, but much of it is common sense too. Figure out which method you're most comfortable with and makes the most sense to you, and go try it. Don't be afraid to try things and fail, because that's the best way to learn.

Also I wouldn't worry about your BB that much. Once your plants are healthy and growth is at full throttle, your nitrate and ammonia problems will take care of itself. 

Good luck!

----------


## aza

Ivan is right; focus on growing healthy plants and algae will be kept at bay. Remember, it's your tank so in the end you decide and everyone's tank condition differs, so what works for me may not work for you and vice versa.

----------


## tetrakid

> ... Remember, it's your tank so in the end you decide and everyone's tank condition differs, so what works for me may not work for you and vice versa.


This is so true!

There are so many variables in each person's tank to consider that no one formula will work for another. Each will have to recognise the unique chemistry and biology of a particuler tank in order to create the most desirable result. This is why even two or more tanks owned by the same owner at the same time can have widely different conditions.

----------


## j.c.koh

> Everyone has different takes based on their experience, there's no right or wrong. There's a lot of science involved, but much of it is common sense too. Figure out which method you're most comfortable with and makes the most sense to you, and go try it. Don't be afraid to try things and fail, because that's the best way to learn.


Exactly, I too felt that solutions to problems shouldn't have right or wrong, only pros and cons. Any cons can adjusted given the effort. Except for medication dosing, I wouldn't go down that route. 

I believed he did over exaggerated the floaters blocking the light from the plants part. 

After much thought I think I am going to try both ways. 

Reason is the floaters need a week to quarantine, so right now I need to do something to bring down the nutrients. I've been doing daily 30% water change since day 2 of the set up but still can't bring it down. Think it time to up the volume. 

The plan is while I quarantine the floaters, I go 75-90% water change every 2 days. Fertilizer dosage will be normal. Lights will start from 3 hours a day, ramping up half an hour everyday until it hit the 6 hours mark. By then its already 1 week the floaters should be ready. The tank shall have major improvements given the water volume changed, so any excess nutrients I will drop in the floaters to finish them off and do water change as per normal to let the tank stabilize. 

The only problem is I don't know where to get floaters, AA is not going to sell me because he disapprove the method. I tried that aquarium, nothing much with them right now, I went over to the lfs at yishun interchange, only duckweed and water lettuce, the conditions are horrible. 

Is there any place I can get nice floaters?? 

However I do have great respect for staffs at AA, they do things with passion and very are knowledgeable, their funas and plants are one of the greatest I seen so far on par with fishy business. I just feel like solutions shouldn't be a one way only thing...

----------


## Urban Aquaria

Actually its not really necessary to have to go out of the way to buy floating plants, most of them can be gotten free.

You could look out for floating plants that other hobbyists are giving away (most keepers have to throw away lots of them regularly anyways)... or just get from any LFS which grow them in their retail tanks like AA or GC. If you ask them nicely or happen to buy some livestock from them, they will usually be glad to toss in an assortment of floating plants for you. 

All of the floating plants i have kept so far are given free from other hobbyists or LFS (usually randomly chucked into bags with the fishes or shrimps). Even just a few tiny leaves is sufficient, as they will gradually multiply until you have to keep throwing bunches away.  :Grin:

----------


## aza

Found a bro in marketplace selling/giving some floaters:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...422#post850422

Quick, before someone else get em all!

----------


## Zep

Hi bro jc koh, I have some dwarf water lettuce or red root floaters to spare if you want some. I bought my red root floaters from AA and got the dwarf water lettuce from another bro. They just took off and covered my 50cm tank. 

You can pm me if you would like some. If not I will need to throw them away during my next water change.

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## Ivan Choo

If you live near marine parade, I have some salvina minima to spare. I throw away a handful during every water change. In fact, most hobbyist in the forum will be happy to give floaters to you for free.


BTW, @UA gives good advise, salvina minima has smaller leaves, don't really propagate that fast but works well enough, has short roots and are easy to remove. Fishes love 'em too. I still use them even though I don't have algae issues; for fish comfort and to cover the edges of my tank so as to cut down light hitting on my sand surface (this way the sand won't grow green). They also help keep my nitrate in check as I'm heavily stocked.


On a separate note, I usually don't quarantine new plants for that long. I will soak them in ISTA anti-snail and/or AlgExit 10X overdosed solution from a few hours to max 2 days. It all depends on the type and condition of the plants, and the location where I've got them. It worked well for me so far, I don't get any pest snails or critters.


I do have some limpets surfacing lately (I suspect them got in from new fishes), but from my experience they will go away themselves eventually (provided you don't overfeed and keep up with tank maintenance); their numbers are insignificant and don't bother me much.


My point is, unless you live a laboratory environment, pests and algae *will sneak in*. In fact it's only natural as we strive to provide a conducive environment for fishes and plants, which coincidentally works well for these critters too. Even if you quarantine 2 weeks, there is no guarantee of it being pest free; just more probability of it being so. What matters most is regular maintenance to keep your tank clean, and these nasties will be kept at bay. This is how nature works, embrace it, don't fight it.


My advise is don't stress yourself too much over all these best practises. Strike a balance between what is convenient and practical, and do things to best effort. Else fatigue and disappointment will creep in and eventually kill the joy of the hobby. 


Just sharing my $0.02, YMMV, listen at your own peril!

----------


## j.c.koh

Happens to be at nearby sunpet after work, decided to go there for a walk. 

I ask them for the salvinia minima and got myself a packet. Half way home I get a closer look at the plant.. 

It looks different for the picture UA post...

20161219_165720__1482138359_180.255.252.90.jpg

It I got the wrong plant? lol

Is it still usable??

----------


## Urban Aquaria

It's just a different salvinia variant...probably salvinia cucullata, those tend to grow more in clumps, also usable too. They all have similar growth rates and care, just with different leaf structures.

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## limz_777

> Happens to be at nearby sunpet after work, decided to go there for a walk. 
> 
> I ask them for the salvinia minima and got myself a packet. Half way home I get a closer look at the plant.. 
> 
> It looks different for the picture UA post...
> 
> 20161219_165720__1482138359_180.255.252.90.jpg
> 
> It I got the wrong plant? lol
> ...


Bigger leafs floater are much better, easier to clear later on 

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

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## j.c.koh

I'll like to take this time to thank everyone here for helping me out this past week and those who offered their floaters to me, I am very grateful and I appreciate it.

This set up has not been a smooth one, the nightmare begins on day 3 when the AQ server crashed. I can't ask for advises and all information here were locked away from me.

I'm on my own, I doubted myself for everything I did because there is no clear answers. 
I'm not sure if it's green water at that time, I thought it might be a bacteria bloom or aquasoil staining the water, but again no clear answers so I just keep doing water change.
but when the water keeps going back the the greenish color after the next day, not knowing whats going on and not knowing the solutions really sends me into fatigue.
I'm not free during that few weeks so I went to a few lfs near me, they ask me to dose medication...... 

then finally the website went up, through you guys I learned whats wrong with my tank and how to solve the problem, I know what to do now.

again thank you guys for the help, it means a lot to me. :Jump for joy:

----------


## jackychun

> Happens to be at nearby sunpet after work, decided to go there for a walk. 
> 
> I ask them for the salvinia minima and got myself a packet. Half way home I get a closer look at the plant.. 
> 
> It looks different for the picture UA post...
> 
> 20161219_165720__1482138359_180.255.252.90.jpg
> 
> It I got the wrong plant? lol
> ...


I notice they would transform to small leaf version after sometimes staying in the tank. 


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## simonyeeklang

Master test kit

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## simonyeeklang

Brand API or Sera

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## tetrakid

A master test kit is a must for the dedicated and serious hobbyist. 
I am not too dedicated and also not too serious, so I only get a PH testing set, plus baking soda for control.

----------


## Jinduan

> went over to AA for the floaters just now, came home empty handed.. 
> he told me to use the massive water change method....
> he said use floaters only when there's fishes inside the tank and doing massive water change will hurt them.
> he said floaters will block out the lights and affect the MC and sp mini.
> 
> he said since the tank is still fishless might as well nuke the tank to get rid of the problem 1st.
> he suggest changing the water 90% every 2 days. aquasky will be set to 3 hours per day and then slowly increase to 6 hours in a 1 to 2 weeks period.
> dosage of the fertilizer step-1 and brightly k @ 3 pumps a day as per normal.
> after a week plus after the improvement then start worrying about the stability of the tank's bb.
> ...


Hi jc,

I had some time and read through your thread. Sounds like you are having an epic start to your aquascaping journey! Welcome!  :Smile: 

A niggling question I have is this - why are you concern about losing half your BB (i assume is beneficial bacteria?) ?

Do you use anti-chlorine to treat your tap water when you do water change? If you use a good one then your BB should not be affected. The other thing that is important for BB is oxygen. So if your plants are healthy, they will be net producer of o2 which helps. Good water movement also helps to improve oxygen. 

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## j.c.koh

@simonyeelang,

I'm using the api master kit

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## j.c.koh

@jinduan,

Im using seachem prime to treat the water. 

At first changing 90% of the water sounds extreme to me.
Im afraid that I have to do the cycle all over again. 

But right now I have to get rid of the problem on hand 1st, I'm doing 80-90% water change.

----------


## Jinduan

I think most of the BB would reside in the filter, substrate and plants. So long as you treat the tap water with seachem prime it should be ok. Seachem Prime is good stuff.

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## j.c.koh

did a second 90% water change yesterday,
came home today with the same greenish color......


too late to update yesterday night,
this is what I did:


first I washed up the floaters, discard the bad ones and trimmed away the melting leaves.





I'm using the 10x dosage method recommended by ivan, description says 10ml per 60 liters,
after doing the math, 700ml of water should use 1.66. I used 1.7ml.




after that I put on the cover and set it aside somewhere not too dark.

if I did anything wrong please let me know.

----------


## j.c.koh

@jackychun, 
Hmm that's quite interesting..

----------


## jackychun

I think you can leave it open without cover. Otherwise, it might become vegetable soup  :Grin:  


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## j.c.koh

@jackychun, 
I can't find a safe place to leave it open... 
Think I'm gonna introduce to the tank tonight. 

Normally just give it a good rinse before putting in??

----------


## jackychun

Yes. Rinse it thoroughly before putting in the tank bro. Anyway, no fauna in your tank yet so it should be Ok. 


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## j.c.koh

@jackychun, 
 :Well done:  :Well done:

----------


## j.c.koh

hi, 
today is the fifth day since I did 90% water change every 2 days, did three water change already.
it's the third day since I intro the floaters to the tank.

light now set at 4 and a half hours today, ramping up to 5 hours tomorrow.
dosing with brightly k and step 1, 2 pumps a day.


lights off


lights on.

still no change in color of the water..
how long does the fight against green water usually last? 

should I use a uv sterilizer?

----------


## Ivan Choo

Your green water is not severe, I've seen worse. It's a new tank, give it some time. Also, if you're cutting down lights, it makes sense to cut your fert dosing.

For my previous tank using amazonia soil, I didn't dose ferts for the first few weeks as the soil is rich in nutrients and releases tons of it at the startup stage. 

My advise is cut down your fert dosing and wait it out. Let the tank stabilize. Use UV or other treatments only when the green water gets worse.

----------


## jackychun

The MC and carpet looks great now JC! Well done! 

I see the water very clear leh! 


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## aza

> Get some floating plants to absorb excess nutrients? I don't recommend fully dosing ferts when first starting up a planted tank until the plants fill in n have established well. Also, try to plant more plants from the start, especially stem plants since most are fast growers meaning they suck up excess nutrients well.


My previous advice was the same as Ivan's. Reduce ferts or lower your light intensity. Get more floating plants, let them cover 50% of your water surface- this mimics reducing light intensity. 

Best if you can do a two to three day blackout. Plants may suffer but they will bounce back so don't worry.

UV filter may work but that's much more hard work since you have to reconfigure your setup and may reduce your flowrate, resulting in other forms of algae.

----------


## tetrakid

I would not fight against green water, as I consider green water an indication of a healthy aquatic environment, considering that green algae is also a form of vegetation. Of course too much of algae would be undesirable, since that would affect the clarity of the tank.

----------


## fireblade

try daphina or water fleas or boon to combat green water ..  :Smile: 
they love green water...

----------


## j.c.koh

Thanks for the advices guys, 

Im going to try cutting down dosing on the fertilizers for a week and see if it helps. 

For the uv sterilizer I'm thinking of the hang on type, too lazy to reconfigure.

----------


## ryangiggs

To fight green water... best way is to get a UV sterilizer... 

I tried a lot of methods... introducing boon... getting lots of frogbits... reducing light... major water change every 2-3 days... fight it for 3-4 weeks... dosing it with those green water treatment solutions... no signs of winning against the green water...

in the end bought a eheim uv sterilizer... it clears the water in 2-3 days...

----------


## tetrakid

G


> try daphina or water fleas or boon to combat green water .. 
> they love green water...


Boons love green water but using boons to a clear a tank is not a practical solution, as one would need a high density of boons to do the work effectively, which means the fish will be adversely affected.

----------


## j.c.koh

@jackychun, 

Ya they spreaded better than expected. :Grin: 

I think the water looks okay is because I did a lot of water change, so far I haven't tried 3 days 1 water change yet I don't know what will the color become..

----------


## j.c.koh

@ryangiggs,

I'll give it another 2 weeks before I bring in the big guns. 

But the ehiem uv sterilizer that you are using really cost a bomb! I don't think I'm getting that one.. but it does look rather cool.

----------


## j.c.koh

@fireblade, tetrakid, 

I dont think I'm going to use the daphina method, 
Reason is I don't plan to have big fishes in my tank, if there's nothing to control their population I scare tank can get overun by them. 

I don't know what a boon is, try to google them but can't find anything.

----------


## aza

> @fireblade, tetrakid, 
> 
> I don't know what a boon is, try to google them but can't find anything.


Boon is the local term for daphina. I hope your green water clears soon.

----------


## simonyeeklang

I think when you wash the stone too much you inadvertently introduced extra phosphate etc into the environment. For me just wash off the dust and soak it would do. Doing too much don't help and can be detrimental to its future

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## simonyeeklang

The thing is this. Don't mess around especially the filter, the environment, if you can use seachem stability more. And don't obsessively clean the filter too much after establish. Don't clean the surface of the filter wall and tank let the anaerobic and aerobic bacteria alone

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## Cmlee

So when mc grows upwards means too much light?

----------


## Ivan Choo

> So when mc grows upwards means too much light?


The opposite. They are reaching for the lights.

----------


## tetrakid

> The thing is this. Don't mess around especially the filter, the environment, if you can use seachem stability more. And don't obsessively clean the filter too much after establish. Don't clean the surface of the filter wall and tank let the anaerobic and aerobic bacteria alone


I agree with Shifu Simon. 
I never clean any of my filters at all once they are seasoned. Bacteria take hellova long to establish, so there's no way I will eliminate them. Bacteria cling on to any surface they can find, including on the muck and detritus formed out of fish poo after their decomposition. But since too much detritus is unsightly, removal by syphoning out some is in order.

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## j.c.koh

I went over to polyart yishun to check out the pricing for a uv sterilizer yesterday. One of the uncle asked me why would I wanna use it, I told him the green water issue and he gave me some advices that are very different from what I know so far so I figure I shared it here for some opinions. 

He told me without fishes in it I shouldn't on the uv for for more that a day at a time as it will kill off my plants also, he added that my tank is not yet cycled. I told him that the tank has already been cycled but he insisted that without fishes it wouldn't be a true cycle. He said to on uv for a day, off 2 days before switching on again...

his theory is algae are plants too so by harming the algae you are also harming the plants.. Can anyone confirm this? From what I understand uv should not bring harm to plants, if anything it should be the bb to worry about. 

Then he recommend buying the seachem phosguard to bring down the phosphates then the green water will be gone. He said phosphates is the no.1 culprit for algae, Told me to put the whole 250ml in the filter and wait three days for the Magic to happen.

That confuses me because from every article I read, no one has ever recommend phosguard to remove green water. I thought plants needs phosphates to grow healthy too? If I remove it too much wouldn't it hurt the plants? 

I end up buying the phosguard from him as its not expensive and maybe I can use a little of it or in future. I don't dare to use it now because I do not have a phosphates test kit yet and reducing phosphates without knowing the reading seems dangerous. 

Can I take his advices? They all seems to contradict the things that I learned.. 
Phosphates is a new subject for me and I'm still learning.

----------


## aza

Not sure if this would help your learning:

Dennis Wong's excellent algae in planted tank video: 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDdpUe4Olcg

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## aza

> He said phosphates is the no.1 culprit for algae...


I believe this has been debunked by Tom Barr with his EI method of plant fertilisation.

http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr...-for-test-kits

More back-log reading to catch up for you. Hope these helps  :Smile:

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## aza

> The thing is this. Don't mess around especially the filter, the environment, if you can use seachem stability more. And don't obsessively clean the filter too much after establish. Don't clean the surface of the filter wall and tank let the anaerobic and aerobic bacteria alone
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1W using Tapatalk


While one must not clean their filters obsessively clean, 100% sparkling clean, it is still extremely important to clean your filter. 

A filter functions like any other filter, e.g. Aircon filter or air purifier filter, that is to trap impurities (particulates) from the medium the impurities resides in, i.e water in the case of our hobby. 

Being lazy with filter maintenance would lead to filter inefficiency, meaning that impurities will most likely stay in your tank more, giving rise to higher DOC and nitrate levels. Additionally, it could also impede flow which, in a planted tank, is crucial since that is the only way CO2 and nutrients can be distributed to plants. This would ultimately lead to algae attacks; when plants fail, algae flourishes.

There are ways to minimise BB loss during filter maintenance: using tank water to wash the filter media or chemically treating tap water with anti-chlorine like Prime.

Personally, I conduct filter maintenance once every one or two months, depending on how much I feed my lifestock.

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## ongxt

DOC stands for? 

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## aza

> DOC stands for? 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Dissolved Organic Compounds

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## tetrakid

There's so much to learn in fishkeeping that one can easily spend a whole lifetime at it and still yearn for more. 

But unlike any other hobby, there are so much variables to contend with that complete mastery is elusive at best.
This being the case, it is thus not advisable for beginning hobbyists to 'jump in at the deep end' so to speak.

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## aza

> There's so much to learn in fishkeeping that one can easily spend a whole lifetime at it and still yearn for more. 
> 
> But unlike any other hobby, there are so much variables to contend with that complete mastery is elusive at best.
> This being the case, it is thus not advisable for beginning hobbyists to 'jump in at the deep end' so to speak.


Agreed upon. I did read a lot before I started, am still doing so now. Some info hits and some misses. 

I'm currently testing EI method. Spent half a year doing PMDD previously. I'm interested to see if in my tank adding phosphates causes algae because in the past, my PMDD macro solution had no phosphates. 

It's good to learn more theoretically but you must also experience by applying what you think you know (or what others tell you what they think they know)  :Wink:

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## simonyeeklang

DOC is dissolved organic compound. I don't clean my flat unnecessarily because it have anaerobic to convert certain harmful substances to other elements 

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## simonyeeklang

Sorry not 'flat', it's filter

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## simonyeeklang

I think most of the website send miss information and confused and confound the fundamental of dissolved organic compound. As such due to this we all put in active carbon to polish the water. By doing so algae will rift and continually to rift if we do so. What is balance? By over cleaning the system you are along for even more trouble. Never ever clean the stone and rock and boil it. It creates a void. Only thing to do is to wash with water and quarantine no need to do over cleaning.

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## simonyeeklang

By over planting the Aquarium the algae will have no chance. Plants not suitable will die off. Having floaters like water lettuce and Frog bit. You are likely to absorb more nitrate and ammonium which promotes more algae. Over the top! 

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## fireblade

how long have you not clean your flat?!  :Smile:   :Razz: 

just kidding I know you meant filter...  :Smile: 




> DOC is dissolved organic compound. I don't clean my flat unnecessarily because it have anaerobic to convert certain harmful substances to other elements 
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1W using Tapatalk

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## fireblade

by any chance your tank is beside the window or a place that sunlight can reach?
I have a tank that is by the window, certain times of the year, when morning sun hit that spot, the tank is green till cannot see fish, and like now, when the sun is shifted, the tank is as clear as crystal.. initially I am quite affected by it , but so many years has passed I have got used to it..

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## tetrakid

> by any chance your tank is beside the window or a place that sunlight can reach?
> I have a tank that is by the window, certain times of the year, when morning sun hit that spot, the tank is green till cannot see fish, and like now, when the sun is shifted, the tank is as clear as crystal.. initially I am quite affected by it , but so many years has passed I have got used to it..


For your case, the solution is very simple. Just buy a piece of corrugated plastic sheet from Popular book store and cut it to the size of your aquarium back. During the months of direct sunlight, place the sheet behind the aquarium. After a few months when the sun is no more direct, simply remove the sheet. Getting used to thick green water is not the best solution.

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## simonyeeklang

> by any chance your tank is beside the window or a place that sunlight can reach?
> I have a tank that is by the window, certain times of the year, when morning sun hit that spot, the tank is green till cannot see fish, and like now, when the sun is shifted, the tank is as clear as crystal.. initially I am quite affected by it , but so many years has passed I have got used to it..


Never never ever put near windows. Do you have black thick rubbish bags? 

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## simonyeeklang

Send us a photo before and after

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## j.c.koh

Bros, I need urgent advices on this matter. 

Is a jbj arctica chiller 1/15 hp connected to my 2215 filter good enough for my tank?

----------


## fireblade

Thank you for advice! 
how come I never think of that! 
will try to do that...




> For your case, the solution is very simple. Just buy a piece of corrugated plastic sheet from Popular book store and cut it to the size of your aquarium back. During the months of direct sunlight, place the sheet behind the aquarium. After a few months when the sun is no more direct, simply remove the sheet. Getting used to thick green water is not the best solution.





> Never never ever put near windows. Do you have black thick rubbish bags? 
> 
> Sent from my HM NOTE 1W using Tapatalk

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## tetrakid

> Thank you for advice! 
> how come I never think of that! 
> will try to do that...


The corrugated plastic board from Popular book store comes in many colours, including black or white. It is easy to cut and convenient to use.

I always prefer to place my aquarium beside a window and then control the light exposure as mentioned. Actually, for good plant growth, direct sunlight is desirable, since it is a natural source of full-spectrum light. Artificial full-spectrum light fittings are expensive and cannot beat natural sunlight. It's a pity I do not have the luxury of space near a window to put my tank.

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## fireblade

actually the tank that is near window is a fish only tank only recently I added in a pandan plant and it flourish nicely.. but I still get green water though

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## tetrakid

> actually the tank that is near window is a fish only tank only recently I added in a pandan plant and it flourish nicely.. but I still get green water though


Green water is definitely the result of exposure to natural full-spectrum sunlight. So to control the light, it is necessary to block not only the back of the tank but also the sides and the top too. With very little sunlight hitting the tank, there is little likelihood of green water developing. The secret lies in light control. In addition to controlling sunlight, it is also necessary to control the tank lights if any.

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## j.c.koh

some updates,

a few days ago I went over to that aquarium at yishun, saw that they are selling the uv sterilizer used by ivan choo.
the staff told me to pick the 9w if buying as they say 13w is too powerful for 15 gallon.
I bought the 9w uv at a reasonable price. my initial plan is to wait 2 weeks before getting 1 but I'm getting more and more impatient lol.



hooking up the system was a nightmare, the installation guide on the box had the o-ring place at the wrong place, I followed the instructions at ended up having a very leaky uv system. I thought faulty parts were to blame so I went back thinking of a replacement. the bro over there helped me check on it and told me the o-ring placement shown on the box was wrong and helped me assembled it.
we did a test there to make sure there's no leakage before bringing it home. now to think of it, it's actually common sense lol




I had it hooked up on my right side, I put a piece of paper to prevent the light from shinning on the inlet pipe.
so far it has been on for 48 hours, but I'm still having the familiar greenish color.....
I did some searching on the net, some said it takes 4-5 days... I guess I have to be patient.


I did a 60% water change today as to help shorten the time for the uv to clear things up.



now it looks better, hopefully it can stay this way tomorrow.......

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## j.c.koh

> Bros, I need urgent advices on this matter. 
> 
> Is a jbj arctica chiller 1/15 hp connected to my 2215 filter good enough for my tank?


I can't seem to get any advises regarding the chiller, someone is selling the 1/15 hp and I'm not sure if it's good enough to run it on a 15 gallon. I read somewhere that 1/10 hp is better.....
but anyway he has already reserved it for me, I'm collecting it tomorrow. 

so if it's not powerful enough, please do not tell me.... cause we had already made a deal, there's no turning back.

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## tetrakid

The function of a UV filter is to kill off the green water algae which is suspended n the water column. However, if the water-borne algae is simply passed through the light briefly, the algae will not be exposed long enough for the light to do its work. To make the best use of the UV, the water flow has to be regulated such that it allows sufficient time for the passing suspended algae to be destroyed. In this regard, a more powerful lamp is also desirable for greater efficiency.

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid,

Before buying I did the math, 2215 had a maximum 163 gph flow rate. With the media and the uv I think it further reduces the flow rate. I saw a sunsun jup-22 using 9w with a 210gph flow rate. I read the reviews and most said it's able to do it's job. I think I'll give it more time.

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## tetrakid

> @tetrakid,
> 
> Before buying I did the math, 2215 had a maximum 163 gph flow rate. With the media and the uv I think it further reduces the flow rate. I saw a sunsun jup-22 using 9w with a 210gph flow rate. I read the reviews and most said it's able to do it's job. I think I'll give it more time.


Regardless of which model you have, it is better to reduce the flow rate if possible, for the reason I mentioned.

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## j.c.koh

@Tetrakid,

I understand, I'm going to close the outflow double tap slightly to reduce to flow, I read its not recommended as it will cause the motor to heat up but I'm guessing 1 or 2 days won't hurt. I put in the surface skimmer to increase the water flow in the tank.

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## fireblade

after adding your chiller, your flow will be even lower..

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## fireblade

in this hobby, patience is the key, without patience, you will find yourself buying more and more useless stuff and home getting more and more pack and wallet hole getting bigger and bigger....

your tank looks good now.. 



> some updates,
> 
> a few days ago I went over to that aquarium at yishun, saw that they are selling the uv sterilizer used by ivan choo.
> the staff told me to pick the 9w if buying as they say 13w is too powerful for 15 gallon.
> I bought the 9w uv at a reasonable price. my initial plan is to wait 2 weeks before getting 1 but I'm getting more and more impatient lol.
> 
> 
> 
> hooking up the system was a nightmare, the installation guide on the box had the o-ring place at the wrong place, I followed the instructions at ended up having a very leaky uv system. I thought faulty parts were to blame so I went back thinking of a replacement. the bro over there helped me check on it and told me the o-ring placement shown on the box was wrong and helped me assembled it.
> ...

----------


## j.c.koh

@fireblade, 

I wouldn't label it as useless if it works. 
I have been fighting green water since day 3, it's almost a month. Impatient might be one thing, but I'm more to desperate.

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## jackychun

UV should be the good method to eliminate green algae as what I have read. I have not encountered it before so could not give you my case study advice. You have learnt along the way and that is what counts.  I also never use Chiller for my tank. Cooling fan is sufficed for my tank, it is a bit noisy though. 

After UV you still have a blackout method that haven't tried. I also read somewhere that people use diatom filter to clear the green algae. That is super fast method. 


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## simonyeeklang

> UV should be the good method to eliminate green algae as what I have read. I have not encountered it before so could not give you my case study advice. You have learnt along the way and that is what counts.  I also never use Chiller for my tank. Cooling fan is sufficed for my tank, it is a bit noisy though. 
> 
> After UV you still have a blackout method that haven't tried. I also read somewhere that people use diatom filter to clear the green algae. That is super fast method. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




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## j.c.koh

@jackychun,

ya from what I read the uv method should be effective and convenient.

but as much as I hate to admit, the uv doesn't work on my tank.
on it for 4 days straight and no improvement.
maybe it's the rate of the flow rate like what tetrakid said, 
or there's some direct sunlight like what fireblade said, just realize my wife likes to open the front door in the evening. some light do fall on my tank, not much and not strong but still direct.

I'm going to dismount it for now. I'm setting up the chiller this few days, once the chiller is up running it should decrease the flow rate by a bit more, then I'll mount it up and try again. if there is still no improvement after all this I would accept defeat gracefully and play the waiting game with the green water.

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## j.c.koh

some updates,

I collected the 1/15 arctica chiller last night,




to be honest, chiller was not part of my purchase plan. it's good to have as my tank can hit up to 32 degree when fan is not on, but not necessary.

I happened to come across some posting selling the chiller,
it's 1.5 years, used for saltwater, it's being serviced, ran in freshwater for a day before putting it in store room.

that day I jokingly offered $250 and he accepted it.....
I was in doubt through out the day, I was afraid he was selling cheap because of some performance issues or faulty parts....

the feeling changed when I went over to his house, I was greeted by a well maintained high tech 4 feet marine tank at his doorstep..
he is someone who knows how to take care of his equipment. 

I'm doing the vinegar flushing method before setting up because it's used on a marine tank.

will update soon.

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## j.c.koh

@simonyeeklang,

what's that?

----------


## simonyeeklang

> @simonyeeklang,
> 
> what's that?


That is a cooler master casing fan on top my 2 feet tank connected to 12 volt power adaptor

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## tetrakid

I'm


> some updates,
> 
> I collected the 1/15 arctica chiller... to be honest, chiller was not part of my purchase plan. it's good to have as my tank can hit up to 32 degree when fan is not on, but not necessary.
> ...


As far as I know, chillers are only find of interest to those who rear shrimps.I have never heard of fishkeepers using chillers.

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid,

Apparently it's too late to tell me that now brother

----------


## tetrakid

> @tetrakid,
> 
> Apparently it's too late to tell me that now brother


Can't blame you really, as I can see you are passionate about things. Not that it's a bad thing, but apparently you are taking on too much that you can handle. I would have done it by first mastering the basics of fishkeeping rather than try to emulate the creation of a sophisticated tank.

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid, 

Come on man, there's no need to be a party pooper on new year eve.

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## Devilblood

jc, nice setup. dont worry too much on the green water, just take note UV dont switch on too long period.
i precisely use Uv for my 5ft aro tank due to whole tank turn green....hahahah tank side face the sun, turn on 1hr per day continue for 1 week and it will clear.


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## tetrakid

> @tetrakid, 
> 
> Come on man, there's no need to be a party pooper on new year eve.


Please don't take it personally. I would have said the same to any newbie hobbyist too. By the way since you have already come this far, the next thing to.bear in mind is.not to spend a lot on costly fish until one is good at it. Adopting a positive attitude and treating all as feedback or free tips is best. Of course one is free to reject or brush off such tips as one feels fit. Nothing is personal.

----------


## j.c.koh

@tetrakid, 

I'm curious that when I ask for advices on the chiller, no advices is given by you even when you are in the thread responding to other issues, when I said the chiller is on reserve and I'm collecting it tomorrow, nothing is spoken by you regarding it. But when it is already at my house, to the point of no return, cold water suddenly came crashing down. Maybe I'm being over sensitive and I apologize for that, but I'm feeling that everyone here were trying their best pushing me forward but your comments always makes me doubt my own ability and decisions.

----------


## tetrakid

> @tetrakid, 
> 
> I'm curious that when I ask for advices on the chiller, no advices is given by you even when you are in the thread responding to other issues, when I said the chiller is on reserve and I'm collecting it tomorrow, nothing is spoken by you regarding it. But when it is already at my house, to the point of no return, cold water suddenly came crashing down. Maybe I'm being over sensitive and I apologize for that, but I'm feeling that everyone here were trying their best pushing me forward but your comments always makes me doubt my own ability and decisions.


There's no way for me to know that you are not having shrimps in mind, epecially now that so many people are into shrimps. Furthermore. I strictly avoid shrimp discussions, as I only feed any shrimps to my Lohan/Pacu fish. It is only when you indicated you intend to keep the chiller that I knew otherwise. Anyway, there's a possibility that you will be into shrimps in future, who knows.

----------


## j.c.koh

@tetrakid, 
I had been out drinking for the whole afternoon yesterday, must have misinterpreted your comments to a different meaning causing something to trigger. I sincerely apologize for that. No hard feelings.

----------


## tetrakid

> @tetrakid, 
> I had been out drinking for the whole afternoon yesterday, must have misinterpreted your comments to a different meaning causing something to trigger. I sincerely apologize for that. No hard feelings.


@j.c.koh

No worries, no problem at all.

I understand your enthusiasm in getting things done quickly,

Actually, what I always drive at is that in this hobby, it is important to first master the fundamentals, thus making things easier to tackle. In these stressful days when there,'s so little time to get things done, it is good to make things simple rather than complicated. Thus, the simpler a tank is, the more pleasure one can derive from the hobby.

A simple tank is one which needs minimal maintenance. All fish need is clean water to thrive, and to achieve this, there's nothing better than good old aged water (without chemicals).

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## simonyeeklang

Aquarium hobby is not instant noodle it takes time to read, understand, and time to be patience buying so many things and trying to up other people tracks is not a good attitude, behaviour and mentality but take the time and patience is! 

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## tetrakid

> Aquarium hobby is not instant noodle it takes time to read, understand, and time to be patience buying so many things and trying to up other people tracks is not a good attitude, behaviour and mentality but take the time and patience is!


LOL,... I like shifu your example of instant noodle.  :Smile: 

You are so right. This hobby is not easy, though it is easy to buy many things and many fish. 

When I advise beginners to first start with a $2 packet of mixed guppies or platys, they think I am insulting them and they brush my suggestion aside. Actually I am very serious about that. If a hobbyist can manage to keep the fish surviving and healthy for at least six months, then it shows that he has gained some experience. But usually the fish will not manage to survive that long. 

Now if I buy a packet of mixed platys, I can keep them for one year or more. My favourite fish is platys. Sometimes in a mixed packet, one can find one or two good specimens suitable for breeding too.

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid,

ya one of my weakness is I tend to set to-do-list and deadlines on everything, if things turns out the way it should then great, if not I would start panicking and search for answers to make sure I make it on time.

as for the faunas it wont be anything expansive for now.

you are right about taking on too much at once, the stress and fatigue are slowly creeping in day by day.
a lot of research needs to be done as everything is new to me, adding more things lead to doing more research, more stress...

I'm gonna try to take it easy from now.

----------


## simonyeeklang

In the 1st place keeping a planted Aquarium is have beauty, experiences to learn but not to experiment on. 2nd when you have enough time and patience it will work. 3rd most people are ignorant just buy fish and dump in. (cont't) 

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## simonyeeklang

Once you have started you know you are the right track then don't do silly think ie buy this meds because lfs said so but take time and patiently read once those information is not contradictory then do it with smaller dosage at one step at a time. Not everyone know everything I for one don't like noisy tanks and dirty tanks but once it is setup don't be smart Alec and messy with it. Don't be lazy in changing water, cleaning filter, trimming, fert application,turn off the light once a while, check co2. And don't disturb it as well you never know what will pop in suddenly

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## simonyeeklang

7 years 2 scales countless heart aches, many stupid mistakes, 4 air pumps, 1 hob filter, 1 china made filter, 30 bottles of meds, a bunch of air hose, a broken glass diffuser, 1 broken net, 

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## tetrakid

Actually fishkeeping is a journey in experience. It can be a splendid experience or a nightmare, depending on how one goes about it.

I often see enthusiasts bitten by the fish bug start spending a lot of money on a tank and countless accessories, chemicals and costly fish only to lose interest after the initial burst of enthusiasm when problems start to creep in. But make no mistake about it - such enthusiasm is healthy and desirable. It is only the methodology in going about it that is the cause of eventual loss of interest. Thus, starting on a proper footing is of utmost importance.

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## simonyeeklang

So understand this too an Aquarium is an under stress item. Don't push, don't drop treat like a very heavy item, broken glass, and shattered tank is no laughing matter, electrical shock can kill too, leaky tanks (please make the next owner will have working tank even if you dont rear anymore keep water in the tank ie silicon sealant can fail), when you cleaning the tank clean your hand before and after touching it you don't want to get sick or worse in hospital because of bacterial infection, skin disease etc. Keep the fish feed covered and out trouble ie pest like rats, lizard, insects,check for stone in the filter line both in and out, make sure water supply is covered and safe don't want something drop inside, keep a plastic sheets and plastic from lfs handy you never know when you want to give away or sell, use high pressure hose always for co2,check water circulation, do proper maintenance schedule, don't be distracted by other things while doing your cleanup, Maintainance etc because accident can and will happen, keep your meds and ferts separated and label properly,always check twice your dosage before application,feed sparingly, if you can change water after feeding (goldfish), before cleaning filter most of eheim pump should make gushing noise after a while showing it is full of gunk and needs cleaning ie time is about 1 month, once that happened you have cleaning to do make sure use tank water only to clean! Once cleaning is done please trim the water so that there is air molecule inside and if necessary shake the filter and don't drop it, once running check for leaks, rectify immediately,keep Teflon, white tape, silicon grease and sealant handy, your water supply also needs the necessary bacteria too. 

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## simonyeeklang

Don't mess around the filter if you don't understand it's workings 

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## tetrakid

Such valuable tips from shifu SimonYeeKlang is definitely beneficial to fishkeeping hobbyists. 
Thank you for the tips.  :Smile:

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## j.c.koh

some updates,

green water is getting better but still around, on the bright side I'm not getting any nasty algae yet.
I cut down on my fertilizer dosage by 50%, once every 2 days. so far so good, plants not affected, water less green.

The problem I had with the floater salvinia cucullata is their leaves are very thick and narrow, lights were not able to pass through them causing the plants on the left side to suffer a bit. I got myself a few bunches of salvinia minima, discarding some of the salvinia cucullata bit by bit as the salvinia minima starts multiplying. now I'm left with salvinia minima.



the aim is to have it cover 20-25% but I going to remove it slowly as I don't wanna off set the balance with the sudden removal.


I intro the faunas a batch every 4 to 5 days to prevent any spike.
I picked the less popular green neon as the schooling fish, it's not as colorful as the cardinal or neon tetras but somehow the color appeals me more.



cant get a nicer picture as they always hide from me when I approach the tank.
I had 14 with me. 1 didn't make it during the second batch intro.
As soon as I intro them into the tank in the evening that 1 newcomer hided behind the rock refusing the school with the rest. I left it alone and next morning it's body's at the same spot..



for the cleaning crew I chose the otos fish, these are by far my favorite fish in the tank. great personalities and cute.



got 3 10 days ago, lost 1 yesterday.. quite strange as I'm sure they are well fed, think I have enough brown and some green algae in the tank, been eating Japanese cucumbers and other vegetables I added to the tank and the one dead seems to be the healthiest.  


for shrimps I chose the red nose shrimp.



I had 5 of them with me. being through three 20% water change and still doing great.
for those who have shrimps i recommend adding a few of these to your collections.
the way they swim around are really entertaining and fun to watch.
the cons are due to their semi transparent body, locating them is like playing photohunt.




just did some minor trimming on the plants, don't dare to trim too much at one go.
the water below the floaters has a green hue, which is good because it means some lights are able to pass through.
when I'm using salvinia cucullata it's too shady like dark clouds on top.

I'm probably going to add some colored shrimps and stop at there. don't want it to get too crowded.

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## schwip

Yr MC carpet looks amazing! 

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## j.c.koh

@schwip, 

Thanks,
it suddenly grew like crazy covering the front rock.

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## schwip

> @schwip, 
> 
> Thanks,
> it suddenly grew like crazy covering the front rock.


How many weeks in did it do that? I'm still waiting for mine to get its spurt hahaha.

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## j.c.koh

@schwip,

I think me adding the chiller played a part in speeding up the grown a little. This picture and my last update was 20 days apart. After you mentioned I take a look back then realize difference so big.

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## jackychun

Yo bro JC! The tank looks great now! Well done! 

The green neon looks nice also! Hard works paid off. 


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## golfball

Hi j.c.koh, Nicely done! I like your green neons. Where did you get them? I am starting looking out for fish now for my new tank. 

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## j.c.koh

@golfball,

Hi, I got 10 from aquatic avenue and 5 from y618. 
Those from AA had brighter and thicker blue strips. 
You can drop by there for a look before deciding which fish to choose, their selections not bad. 

Good job on the mountain view scape btw, very nicely done.

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## j.c.koh

@jackychun,

Thanks bro!

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## j.c.koh

some updates,

I've been searching for months for the "perfect" shrimp to go into my tank.
it has to fit in all these criteria to be considered.

1. the color must be intense to add some flavor to the scape, like a ladybug on the carpet or something.

2. preferable to have 2-tone instead of a single color, something like the red crystal shrimp.

3. not demanding on the temperature and easy to care for.

4. does not cost me an arm and a leg.

after much looking I finally found the "perfect" shrimp.
The red rili shrimp.
I read it's basically cherry shrimp with a different color. the taiwanese breeders created them through selective breeding. so caring them should be easy.


the color is actually red and transparent but it gives you the illusion of a 2-tone color.
got mine at the green chapter, was looking for 8 pcs, but they are selling 1 for $2.50, 10 for $20. price of 8 and 10 are the same. end up bringing home 10.

Here's some of the gang,








and this is my favourite little boy, had me spent 10 mins luring him out from behind the tank filter at green chapter.



guess I'm done with stocking.

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## schwip

Lovely! Also you give me motivation to be patient and alow my tank to grow a bit before introducing my fauna hahaha.

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## golfball

> @golfball,
> 
> Hi, I got 10 from aquatic avenue and 5 from y618. 
> Those from AA had brighter and thicker blue strips. 
> You can drop by there for a look before deciding which fish to choose, their selections not bad. 
> 
> Good job on the mountain view scape btw, very nicely done.


Thanks. Will check them out. Very nice shrimps you've got. And your MC is doing very well looking at from the close ups. 

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## j.c.koh

@schwip,

I went over to read on your journal yesterday, one thing I must say, your driftwood is breathtaking. I really envy you.

patient is one of my weak point, I think my mc growing fast is the result of me blasting the fertilizer on full dosage since day 1, the consequences is me having green water until now. To think back, I'm being lucky to have just green water and not other nasties. If I can redo it again I would have be more patient. Hang in there, you'll get there soon.

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## jackychun

It can be seen the MC carpet has been growing very well bro! It makes me want to rescape my tank. Lol.  Hope your shrimp community will develop soon! 


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## schwip

> @schwip,
> 
> I went over to read on your journal yesterday, one thing I must say, your driftwood is breathtaking. I really envy you.
> 
> patient is one of my weak point, I think my mc growing fast is the result of me blasting the fertilizer on full dosage since day 1, the consequences is me having green water until now. To think back, I'm being lucky to have just green water and not other nasties. If I can redo it again I would have be more patient. Hang in there, you'll get there soon.


Hey I think we both spoke too soon xD. My hands got itchy when I saw a pot of monte carlo at LfS... tried to plant and ended up uprooting a lot of my established monte carloes. 

Replanted but... sigh... I feel like I set back my progress... a lot of them now have some of the roots exposed. Will that be an issue? I would say majority of the roots are place reasonably deep into the substrate though.

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## j.c.koh

@schwip,

I think leave the exposed roots be, when they start spreading the roots will make their way down to the substrate. 


lol your incident gave me flashbacks, truth be told I was sort of there before....

That was when my mc showed signs of spreading, can't remember how many days into the set up.
some stems on the mc grew roots and was spreading across all directions slowly. VERY SLOWLY.
they spread at a dreadful speed during that stage like 1/2 cm in 5 days.
Then 1 day when reaching home I decided to mess with nature. 

I was thinking: since they are moving so slowly, why not help them speed up the process? the roots are trying to reach for the substrate why not push them down into it to save their energy? they will thank you by growing faster. and thus the domino effect.

the mc isn't that well established yet, one gentle shake causes the whole piece to pop out.
realizing my mistake I though of planting that piece back and abort the mission.
when planting that piece back I might have shaken the substrate a bit causing 2 neighboring pieces to uproot, then every attempt to plant a mc back causes it's neighbor to uproot.
after everything is over I estimated about 1/3 of my mc had been disturbed by me. 
do not mess with them until you are sure they are well rooted.

the good news is, it may not be such a good deal. 
base on my observation on my tank, those mc that I uprooted were able to keep up with the grow speed to those that were untouched at the later stage.
so dont worry too much.

once the mc is rooting well on the substrate and shows signs of spreading you can give it a little trim.
don't go crazy on it, just a little on top of each piece, it will trigger the hydra effect, they will spread nicer and thicker.

good luck!

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## tetrakid

A substrate is not like garden soil, it is more like a low 'sandcastle' which easily disintegrates when tampered with, unlike garden or pot soil which is solidly stable. This aspect is commonly overlooked by aquarium hobbyists. Thus, after the initial setup, it is best never to disturb it or attempt to modify the layout.

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## schwip

Thanks tetrakid, I'm learning this in hindsight.

On that note though, by roots exposed I also mean that a stem looking but white portion of the plant is exposed. Will this remain a root part and should I hope it sends out stems from it or will it just remain that way unless I bury deeper?

@j.c.koh I will give it a trim when the dust settles hahaha. Thanks for sharing your experience too... appreciate!

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## magpie

I disagreed with never to disturb the substrate after the initial setup. From my experience, aquasoil or aquarium soil will not disintegrate that fast. Many aquatic hobbyist do replace their plants after the cycling period.

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## schwip

I guess my mistake was not draining most of the water to reduce the chances of plants popping out? I wasn't expecting a need to hahaha, and had been planting little planlets here and there without any problem before.

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## tetrakid

PP


> Thanks tetrakid, I'm learning this in hindsight.
> 
> On that note though, by roots exposed I also mean that a stem looking but white portion of the plant is exposed. Will this remain a root part and should I hope it sends out stems from it or will it just remain that way unless I bury deeper?


What you do will depend on the particular plant you have. I'd suggest you go slow and observe it for a period before you act. If shoots grow there, so much the better. If not, you can always add a bit more soil to cover it. My point is never to disturb the soil foundation, as in repositioning or adjusting the position or orientation. Though the soil may be similar to garden soil, bear in mind that under water the conditions are very different. The soil weighs much less than when it is outside the water, for obvious reasons. Thus, unlike in gardening, under water, it is easy to upset the foundation already established between the plant roots and soil.

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## schwip

@tetrakid ok sure thanks!

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## j.c.koh

@schwip,

Bro I suggest you wait for a bit before trimming, trimming while the plant is not firm to the soil would risk uprooting.

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## schwip

> @schwip,
> 
> Bro I suggest you wait for a bit before trimming, trimming while the plant is not firm to the soil would risk uprooting.


Yep yep plan to do so

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## NanoScaper

> some updates,
> 
> I've been searching for months for the "perfect" shrimp to go into my tank.
> it has to fit in all these criteria to be considered.
> 
> 1. the color must be intense to add some flavor to the scape, like a ladybug on the carpet or something.
> 
> 2. preferable to have 2-tone instead of a single color, something like the red crystal shrimp.
> 
> ...


Hello, j.c.koh.

How are your Red Rili shrimps doing so far?

Reason I'm asking because I got the same variety of shrimps but some were infected with parasites.

Luckily, it was easily treated and I don't have this issue anymore with my Red Rili shrimps.

Anyway, love how your setup is going and please keep us updated.

Thanks.

----------


## j.c.koh

@rezdwan,

Bro thanks for the heads up, I'll get them check asap and post an update.

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## j.c.koh

I checked on my shrimps last night when I got home,

so far none showed any signs of the parasite infection on them.
Because the shrimps are on ninja mode, I'm having a hard time locating them all. 
I will spend a few days observing them.

Rezdwan, again thanks for providing me this valuable piece of information, without knowing it I would have thought it's part of the shell if I spotted one.



while locating the shrimps I had a present surprise,






I found a mother-to-be shrimp.

there's a possibility that she's already pregnant at the lfs although I'm quite sure that none were bearing any eggs during the purchase.
nevertheless I'm still excited.

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## j.c.koh

somehow the picture doesn't show, here the shrimp,

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## NanoScaper

> I checked on my shrimps last night when I got home,
> 
> so far none showed any signs of the parasite infection on them.
> Because the shrimps are on ninja mode, I'm having a hard time locating them all. 
> I will spend a few days observing them.
> 
> Rezdwan, again thanks for providing me this valuable piece of information, without knowing it I would have thought it's part of the shell if I spotted one.
> 
> 
> ...


Don't mention it, j.c.koh. I hope all is well with your shrimps and you don't have to go through the frustration that I went through.

Actually, I've been following and waiting for your thread to be updated and got excited when you chose the Red Rili shrimps. Everyone seems to be talking about their Cherry, Sakura, Fire, Painted and etc. but little excitement over the Red Rili.

Love them for the same reasons too. Of the same species, they are the only ones (I know of) with a two tone colour. I so envy your berried shrimp! :drool 2:  Been trying to breed them for a month with no luck at the moment. The wait continues.

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## j.c.koh

@rezdwan, 

Happy to join you! 

It first caught my attention at a lfs as they looked like mini kois with legs. 

I did went to your journal for informations a few times before making the purchase, but I somehow missed the parasite infection part. 

From what I read shrimps takes several weeks to a month to settle down and breed. 
Base on that information there's a good chance I might have cheated the system and bought a already berried shrimp home. :Opps: 

Yours should start breeding soon.  :Grin:

----------


## NanoScaper

> @rezdwan, 
> 
> Happy to join you! 
> 
> It first caught my attention at a lfs as they looked like mini kois with legs. 
> 
> I did went to your journal for informations a few times before making the purchase, but I somehow missed the parasite infection part. 
> 
> From what I read shrimps takes several weeks to a month to settle down and breed. 
> ...


You read my 12L Nano Shrimp Tank "Greenwood" journal for information? :Shocked: 

So honored and embarrased at the same time. I'm no "shifu" so please don't take my journal seriously. I'm still learning and experimenting.

By the way, thank you for the words of encouragement. Appreciate it.

----------


## j.c.koh

@rezdwan, 

The honor is mine. 
Your journal actually plays a role in my setup.

Because we are both newbies, the questions you asked are relatable to me, I can cut down some research time on shrimps. And your tank is also newly established, I get to witness first hand how the neocaridinas reacts/behaves to the conditions so I can add mine with more confident. 

Lastly, you picked the red rili. It very hard to find someone keeping rilis as they are less popular among its neocaridinas siblings.

Cheers.

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## j.c.koh

Hi, any shrimp experts here can help me with a question? 

Is it possible for a shrimp to have a saddle and bears eggs at the same time? 

I thought I was one like that chilling out in the open when I was doing some maintenances. It went into hiding before I could snap a picture. Had me wondering if I'm just seeing things......

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## Urban Aquaria

It's possible... usually it's either still in the process of generating more eggs from the saddle, or the eggs are almost going to hatch so a new saddle is forming up to prepare for the next round of mating.

I guess you can see this process more clearly due to keeping rili shrimps, their transparent sections allow you to see the saddle throughout the breeding cycle.

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## j.c.koh

Thanks UA for the clarification. 

I thought it was a super rare queen shrimp or something lol
Guess not.

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## j.c.koh

Hi guys I need help, 

5 of my green neon is infected with ich.
Just discovered it, about 2-4 cysts on per infected fish. 
I tried googleing on the treatment but is rather confusing. 
It includes raising temperature, medication and uv. Not sure which is suitable for me. 

Any bros with experiences can point me to the right direction?

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## fireblade

if possible, catch them out and put in hospital tank, add salt and Methylene blue should recover in a week time

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## tetrakid

They probably need to stay in the hospital tank for some time until they are fully recovered. It is important not to overdose the meth and salt, just sufficient to kill the microorganism that cause the Ich symptom, otherwise it will injure the sickly fish further. The main tank also needs to be checked for infestation too. Keep a close watch on every fish for any symptoms.

I always feel very pekchek when any of my fish have any sign of disease. I usually discard them as I do not have the time to do any treatment.

----------


## j.c.koh

@tetrakid, fireblade, 

I currently do not have the necessary equipment to set up a hospital tank, is there a way that I can treat it in the main tank?

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## Urban Aquaria

Once your fishes exhibit ich white spots in the main tank, the parasites are already in free swimming form in the tank... no point transferring them out to a hospital tank, its too late for that. You have to treat the entire tank in order to fully eliminate all the parasites, otherwise your existing fishes and all future fishes will still encounter the same ich parasites again and again.

You can try the increased heat method to speed up the ich lifecycle and combine it with salt treatment to try and kill off the free swimming ich trophonts.

Tetras tend to be sensitive to salt though, so have to be more careful. If they exhibit issues, be ready to do water changes to reverse the effects. Some plants also don't fare so well with salt treatments too.

The other alternative is to use commercial ich treatments and medications. There are many different types on the market so you can check them out.

Personally i quarantine all my new fishes in separate holding tanks and whenever i find a batch exhibiting ich problems, i treat the tank using Seachem Paraguard. So far it's mild enough towards all fishes, yet it can successfully treat the ich issue. I basically dose according to recommended dosage daily until all the visible white spots are gone (usually takes around 1-2 weeks), then continue dosing daily for another additional week to kill off all the remaining free swimming trophonts.

Some info: http://www.seachem.com/paraguard.php

In your case, you will have to treat the entire main tank with the solution.

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## j.c.koh

@urban aquaria, 

UA, thanks for replying. However a new set of ''problems'' arise and I would need your further guidance. 

I just discovered that there are shrimplets all over the carpet. Apparently one of my berried shrimp had decided to give birth in time of chaos. Most of my female shrimps are berried, I would be expecting more to come in this few weeks. 

Given the situation on hand, what would you suggest the best way to handle it to prevent any possible casualties?

I've been thinking of slowly ramping up the temperature to 30°c to speed up the cycle to the tomont stage, then reinstalling the uv sterilizer I had on hand to kill off the floating parasites. Do you think that will work?

----------


## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, it can be more challenging to treat a tank with shrimps and shrimplets in it... just have to be more careful with dosing medications or change the water conditions (ie. increase temps, dosing salts etc). 

Paraguard mentions to remove all inverts before treatment (they don't market it as shrimp-safe), though in my case i have treated tanks with shrimps and all of them were okay and still breed. I actually use concentrated salt dips + paraguard to treat batches of new shrimps i get which exhibit shrimp parasites (ie. scutariella japonica, vorticella, Ellobiopsis sp. etc). Nowadays parasites are also very common in store-bought shrimps. 

Your experience using the medications may vary though, as every tank setup is different, so there are always degrees of risks involved whenever doing treatments.

In theory, UV sterilizers should help to kill many of the thousands of free swimming theronts that get released by the encrusted tomonts... but those that manage to linger at deadspots or in the substrate will still escape being killed by the UV, so a percentage may still tend to stay in the tank long enough to re-infect the fishes. I have experienced using an inline UV sterilizer in one of my previous QT tanks before, but the infected fishes still had ich for many weeks. Most died off, while a few survivors seemingly recovered on their own, then somehow the ich flared up again weeks later, so it seems the ich were never fully eradicated (not sure if ich requires more powerful UV equipment or special UV setups to treat effectively). Only after i dosed medications then the ich parasites were fully eliminated, and never returned again.

I guess you could try various methods and see which work well for your particular setup.

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## tetrakid

As a fishkeeping enthusiast, I can tell you that treating fish disease can form a major portion of the hobby. And also the most pekchek and demoralising.

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## j.c.koh

@urban aquaria,

UA, thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
With a better understanding of the current situation, I'm more confident on how to handle it.

I'm going the raise the temperature slowing to 30°C this few days to speed up the ich cycle.
I will start the Paraguard treatment on the weekend as I need to be around to monitor them carefully for the first few days.

If things goes south I will seek help again.
hopefully I won't be posting on the weekends as no news means good news....

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## j.c.koh

@tetrakid,

I guess it's part of the package for fishkeeping lol~

first time treating fish disease, I hope things will go well.

----------


## j.c.koh

today has not being my greatest experiences in fishkeeping.

As I mention earlier, I'm going the increase the tempreture in the tank to 30°c before the treatment.
my chiller sits at 27°C. yesterday I raise it up to 28°C, at a very slow pace of 0.2°C every 2 hours.

things were looking normal, then when I went home this evening I found two dead red rili shrimps in the tank.
I did a water test. everything's normal.

I know that shrimps are sensitive but bloody hell, I find it ridiculous that the two can't handle a 1°C difference at such a slow pace.
there might be something going on that don't know, right now they are on close observation.

I convinced myself there's no better ways to raise the temperature but I can't help feeling that their blood are on my hands...
Looks like it's going to be a tough battle ahead.

----------


## tetrakid

> @tetrakid,
> 
> I guess it's part of the package for fishkeeping lol~
> 
> first time treating fish disease, I hope things will go well.


Yeah, it is.

Fortunately you didn't start off with a prized Arowana or a couple of premium Discus. Otherwise pekchek would be an understatement. Loss of a precious favourite specimen is something so agonising that even a seasoned aquatic veteran find it hard to bear.

----------


## jackychun

Bro. I have not used Chiller before but can you just turn off the chiller to let the water temperature increase naturally? My tank without chiller is almost 30degC in daytime. 


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## j.c.koh

@jackychun,

Tank currently sitting at 28.8°C, if nothing happens tonight I'll off the chiller and bring it up all the way to 30°C tomorrow.

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## j.c.koh

Some updates on the shrimplets before the treatment just in case. ( touch wood )


I think there's a minor screw up on the breeding part, those shrimplets does not look like the red rili lol






I believe this little bugger is the father of the offsprings....



I had absolutely no idea how the hell did he ended up in my tank. as far as I know I didn't pick him.
But he is the toughest shrimp in my tank, the alpha.
when doing water change, all shrimps would show signs of distress. Most will go into hiding.
But he would just casually walk around the stone, minding his own business looking for food.
Normal days he would go around peeping into the hiding place the female shrimps....

Earlier when I discovered him, I had serious thoughts of discarding him as I knew he's going to mess up the breeding.
I dropped the idea as he is after all a part of my crew.
whatever will be will be.

----------


## j.c.koh

UA, I need to ask you something,

I have started the treatment today, I poured a cap full to the tank. ( treats 40 liters ) At first the shrimps starts acting all weird and stuff, swimming around restlessly. After an hour they starts calming down. I think it should be ok for now. 

My question is, do I need to up the water change routine a bit or do I stick with my usual 6 days 25% water change routine? Thank you for your time.  :Opps:

----------


## Urban Aquaria

> UA, I need to ask you something,
> 
> I have started the treatment today, I poured a cap full to the tank. ( treats 40 liters ) At first the shrimps starts acting all weird and stuff, swimming around restlessly. After an hour they starts calming down. I think it should be ok for now. 
> 
> My question is, do I need to up the water change routine a bit or do I stick with my usual 6 days 25% water change routine? Thank you for your time.


Its usually not necessary to do extra water changes during treatment. If the tank's water parameters are safe and stable, just stick to your regular weekly water change regimen.

If you find that the shrimps are getting stressed when the treatment is being dosed, you could mix the solution in a cup of water and drip it in slowly (can get the up aqua buffer barrel or DIY something similar). That should help to minimise the sudden change in water conditions.

Here is a link to the up aqua buffer barrel: http://www.up-aqua.com/00-dm-page/00...fer-barrel.jpg

You can get it from places like Seaview or East Ocean Aquatic. Very useful for dosing or acclimation procedures.

----------


## j.c.koh

Thanks UA, really appreciate it.

----------


## j.c.koh

Today I did the treatment the dripping method with the up aqua buffer barrel recommended by UA.



I took out a liter of water from my tank and into the barrel, poured in the paraguard, mix it and let it drip slowly, takes about 45 minutes. 
I went for the full dose.

The difference is night and day.

yesterday when I poured the med directly in the tank, after a minute or two some went into panic mode.
they were swimming all over the place as if trying to find a way out of the tank.
I had a emergency bucket of aged water beside me, if anyone of them flips, I would do the water change immediately.
thankfully nothing happens.

Today when using the buffer barrel they were calm through out the whole time.
no hiding, not jumpy, just shrimps doing their daily shrimp things.

Thanks again UA, I couldn't imagine stressing the shrimps daily for the next 2/3 weeks.

----------


## tetrakid

It's acclimatisation. Conversely, if fish are raised in a tank with gradual increase in toxicity, they would be comfortable, whereapon a big water change with clean water will also present great shock and stress.

----------


## j.c.koh

@tetrakid, 

Yeah it kind of reminds me about the frog in boiling water vs the frog in cold water slowly heating it to boiling point experiment.

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## j.c.koh

I never thought I would ask this question but here goes, 

My shrimp has been breeding at alarming rate. 
The eggs had just hatched not too long ago and now they are all pregnant again... At this rate sooner or later the tank will get overrun by them. 

This there a way that I can control their breeding behavior? 

If not is there any place where the water conditions are suitable for them? I plan to release some into the wild when the time comes.

----------


## jackychun

> I never thought I would ask this question but here goes, 
> 
> My shrimp has been breeding at alarming rate. 
> The eggs had just hatched not too long ago and now they are all pregnant again... At this rate sooner or later the tank will get overrun by them. 
> 
> This there a way that I can control their breeding behavior? 
> 
> If not is there any place where the water conditions are suitable for them? I plan to release some into the wild when the time comes.


Hi bro JC,

Congratulations on the success! 

The shrimps normally has very low bioload in the tank, so that should be alright just leave them there IMO. 

To reduce the quantity, you can put some predators in the tank to control it, if you want. But please don't release it to the wild (like longkang). It might change the ecosystem in nature. It sounds big, but that is what people said. Haha. 


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## fireblade

congrats on your success on breeding the shrimps.
please do not release them in the wild... it is as good as flashing them in the toilet. 
Firstly, Based on your experience, do you want to use the dripping method before releasing the shrimps in the wild?
Secondly, I think once you pour them in the wild, they'll become food for other bigger fish in there.

unless your "wild" is a school pond or condo pond, I think you should refrain from doing that.

I think many people out there will like to adopt your shrimps. just post it ... but not here in AQ because you are not allowed to.
if you stay near Tiong Bahru or Clementi area, I am more then willing to help you take care of them...  :Smile: 




> I never thought I would ask this question but here goes, 
> 
> My shrimp has been breeding at alarming rate. 
> The eggs had just hatched not too long ago and now they are all pregnant again... At this rate sooner or later the tank will get overrun by them. 
> 
> This there a way that I can control their breeding behavior? 
> 
> If not is there any place where the water conditions are suitable for them? I plan to release some into the wild when the time comes.

----------


## j.c.koh

@fireblade,

Thanks for the reply, Im trying to find ways that would discouraged them from future breeding. 

the population is still in control for now. 
If it continues like this, it will be an issue. 

The things that I'm afraid about posting adoptions on other forums is, some might adopt the shrimps to feed it the their fishes. If that's the case I would rather they take their chances in the wild. 

If you are able to help me take care of them, I'll pm you when the population gets out of hand, probably in 6 months time if the breeding rate continues like this.

----------


## fuurrr

Hi J.C

Instead of putting them up for adoption, you could also impose a fee for potential caretakers or newbies to get a chance to try out keeping these shrimps.  :Smile:

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## fireblade

another way is bring to LFS to exchange for plants or food.. some of them do take in ...

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## Urban Aquaria

It's good that your tank conditions are optimal and stable enough to allow the shrimps to breed well, this is how a healthy tank should be.  :Well done: 

Most of my tanks also have actively breeding shrimp populations too (oddly the most productive ones tend to be those that are neglected). Once production is in full swing, their numbers usually double every 2-3 months. What i do is simply pick out the lower grade ones in batches and sell or give away to other hobbyists (just join any shrimp chat or facebook groups to trade). This is also a form of constant culling to improve the grade and color of your shrimp population.

Note that not all shrimplets that hatch will make it to juvenile and adult size, newborn shrimps still have many challenges ahead as they grow. There will be a percentage of each batch that will naturally die off along the way at each stage of growth, so its normal to see some attrition rate. Its survival of the fittest in the shrimp world.

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## j.c.koh

Guys, thanks for the suggestions.
I'll choose one of them when the time comes.

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## j.c.koh

Guys, I'm having some problems with my green neons, any help would be appreciated.
I'll first do a update on my current state of the tank.

today is the end of 2nd week of the ich treatment, no casualties. :Jump for joy: 
during the 1st week there's a sudden outbreak that had all fishes covered in multiple white spots.
today upon close observation, all white spots are gone. I'm going to run the treatment for a other week for safety measures.

Now for the problem, my green neons had not been eating since last week. ( 7 days )
I usually feed my fishes once a day before i go to work, they will always go nuts over the food.
but since last Friday, all of them stop eating, eating and spiting out immediately.
the fish food have not expired and I seal it tight after every feeding.

this is the food I use :



On day 4 I got worried, maybe they are sick of having the same food everyday. 
I went to the LFS and brought the new life spectrum thinking they will like the change.

 

I was wrong, I crushed the pellets to tiny powder-like before feeding. they don't seems interested at all. I've tried switching food daily but without success. 
By now some of them should be dead already but they are still around, swimming around full of energy. what's up with them??

I can only think of two explanation: 

either the medication is making them behave this way or they have been snacking on the shrimplets making them uninterested with the fish food.
How do I get them to start feeding again??

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## j.c.koh

I've added a few new members to my tank, I'll do an update.


The ich problem has been resolved after 2 weeks of medication, all my fishes survived.
Shrimp population went down 50% due to the green neons constantly eating the shrimplets. The shrimplets were good at hiding, is just that the green neons plays a better game of hide and seek. Eventually the shrimplets outgrown the size of their mouth leaving them no choice but the feed on the food I offer.


Green water is no longer an issue, I added a double dose seachem purigen in my filter and it clears up in a day. it might not be green water after all, maybe it's something in the set up that taints the water since day one, that would explain why the UV sterilizer had no effect on it even when on for 72 hours.


With the tank at it's tip top shape I decided to add more fishes into the tank. I went over to AA one evening for a look and brought home these followings:

6 clown killifish - 3 male, 3 female.
4 gertudae - 2 male, 2 female


I read that clown killifishs likes little flow in the water so I switched the normal lily pipe to the spin type that I had with me for a full day to relief some stress for them while in a new environment.

For gertudae, it's the 1st time I brought home a fish with zero research, I don't know what they are, I just look at them in the display tank and said to myself " I have to bring them home! " I later found out it's common name is spotted blue eye.



Pardon the messy carpet, I've been busy lately, haven't trim it in weeks.
This is the first time I'm using the spin type lily pipe and this is what I think:

I would not recommend anyone using it on a 15 gallon or more tank, it has little to no water movement.
Can't help but to think large amount of water has been neglected on the far side and too many dead spots.

I think it would only be useful if you run a big filter on a 45cm or less tank.

On the first night one of the male clown killi decided to jump out of the tank. what causes it is a mystery because no one went out to scare them that night. Now I'm left with 5. 





These are two of my clown killis, on the second day when I switched back to the normal lily pipe, they are all not used to it, always swimming against the flow. I had to off my filter for a few times for them to catch their breath. Eventually they are smart enough to figure out which surface area had little flow so they can do their "parking" here. and now they are not as jumpy as they used to when I first introduce them.
they recognize my face as the "food machine".





These two are my spotted blue eye, currently at their juvenile stage, once matured it's top and bottom fins will open up like wings. (base on google image). love them for their tiny wings on top of their head. I had no problem with them. The moment I introduced they start looking for food. it seems they are able to take care of themselves.

I bought some marimo balls for my shrimp's entertainment. usually I put the balls behind the main rock hidden away from view. but from time to time they get moved around during night time.

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## j.c.koh

my rocks starts growing these nice algae on them. I really like the look. I think in a few months time it would look better.



this view you can see the killis at their parking spot.

I think that's all for now, if there's anything new I'll post an update again.

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## jackychun

The tank looks very lush now JC! Well done! How are the clown killies and spotted blue eye doing? I am curious about those fish and might take a try. 


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## j.c.koh

Thanks bro jacky! 
They are doing fine, I think you should try them, they are interesting to watch and they do show affection towards the owners. And given your nice tank setup with lots of shady place, you should have no problem housing them happily. 

I will share with you the things I learned from the 20 something days of having them, hopefully I will be able to answer a few of the questions should you decide to house them. 


At first I do had my doubts about keeping the clown killis, every info on the web says that they are good at jumping and best to have a lid on the tank. I decided to take the risk anyway and this is what I learned from them so far.

The first 10 days is the most important upon introducing them. I recommend putting in some floaters and lower the water volume 3 cms down before the intro. After my last update I had a close call with one jumping, hitting against the tip of the tank then falling back to the water. Then I decided to lower the water for a week till they really settle down. 

At first they would jump just about anything. Sudden movement, loud noise, sudden on/off of lights etc. You have to be careful not to make sudden movement in front of your tank, they will get less nervous day by day and before you know it, they will start swimming in front of the tank, wagging their fins welcoming you when you go to check on them.

I don't know about your tetras, but my green neons had some serious trust issues, after all I had done for them they still hide from me the moment they saw me. But for the killis and spotted blues, whenever I feed or do maintenance with hands above the tank, they would swim below the hands following it, it's quite comforting to know that they do not view me as a threat to them. 

I'm guessing they could still jump out if they want to, but if there's no threats and feels secure they didn't have to. 

the killis prefers gentle to no flow on the surface, some areas on the tank should have little flow. Mine likes to stay near the lily pipe outlet and inlet. But I would suggest not too much surface agitation for the first few days as they need time to figure out the suitable place to do their parking.

As for feeding I had no problem using new life spectrum and Dr Baseleer, they started eating on the second day and they only feed on the surface.

Ways the enhance their color is still a mystery to me. mine are just average in brightness and no way as colorful as those on google image. I don't know if feeding live food would help but I might try it someday. 


Now for the spotted blue eye, I think they are the easiest for me. When I put them in they immediately started searching for food, shows no signs of distress. When feeling time they are always the first in line. However one male do show aggression, especially during feeding time. A big bully towards every tank mate. It's not the to the death type but he's still disturbing the peace. 

I read that adding more spotted blue might solve the problem. The magic number is 8. I'm going to add some more next week. 

They don't have preferences as to where they swim, they covers all top to bottom. 

As for their color, for the first few days they appear transparent with a bit of blue, after a week they starts to get more and more yellowish. 

The fins are growing day by day with spotted patterns on them. They are not in their final form yet, it would take some time. 


I got mine at Aquatic Avenue, I went down 3 times this few months but only saw them the last time I'm there. if you're buying from them please call before going. 

I hope I'm able to help, cheers!

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## jackychun

Thanks bro JC for your detailed sharing. I will do more research and consider them in my next batch.  Cheers!


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## torque6

10 characters

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## mdm

nice... 

any more updated photos of how the tank has grown?  :Grin:

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## j.c.koh

@mdm,

Its a bit messy as I've been fighting a BBA battle lol.

It's getting better, I'll post an update this week.

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## j.c.koh

Hi it's been a while since I last update.
I have had some algae issues causing the postpone. 

Maintaining the iwagumi tank is quite challenging, algae is always lurking around the corner. Waiting to punch you in the face for getting too comfortable and letting your guard down, so you are always on edge.

I think the biggest challenge is the balancing of the tank, since there is no fool proof written formula as every set up is different, you just have to trial and error though your way and hope nothing serious happens. 

It's getting harder to maintain as the tank ages, but given the experiences I gained day by day, I should be able to get by. I'll try to maintain the tank as long as I can, like going for boot camp training before planning for a rescape.

For this update I'll be posting an equipment review, fauna update and the current state of the tank, might take a few days to post them. I'll start posting tomorrow.

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## j.c.koh

I would 1st do a product review.

I had retired my eheim 2215 to the storeroom as a backup filter. I replaced my filter to the oase biomaster 250. This filter had some innovative features that do amazing stuff and I wish to share. 

Those are the things I like about the filter.

1. The material used on the whole canister has a premium, rugged feel to it, it's like you can throw it out of the window and it will still be in working condition after impact.

2. It's very quiet. 

3. There's a slot meant for installing uv light in case you ever need it.

4. There's a prime button that let's you prime the filter with a push of a button.

5. Best of all, it comes with the pre-filter module features. At first I thought it was a gimmick, but after using the filter for a month now I'm quite impressed with it.


However there's one thing I didn't like about it, the filter is to be use on a 16/22 hose. I had to use reducers on both the inflow and outflow causing some decease on the flow rate.


There's a problem I always had in the past, whenever I trimmed my MC they will be floating everywhere in my tank, it's impossible to scoop them all out. 

You knew that those dead leaves would be sucked down to the bottom of the canister but you can't do anything. Too much rotting leaves is bad for the tank but too much cleaning in the canister will affect the BB culturing on the bio media. Even if the BB wasn't an issue opening up the canister regularly breaks your back.
That's when the pre-filter module comes in.

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## j.c.koh

Using reducers on both inflow and outflow.





Unlocking both catch before module can be taken out.







Water in the module reservoir. If not for the pre-filter module, those would have end up at the bottom of the canister. Sometimes I would find shrimplets there, I'll return them to the tank before pouring away the water. 




I clean them with tap water before putting them back.

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## j.c.koh

This is a diagram of the biomaster 600. water will flow through the trap door into the module. This is the first stage filtration, big chucks of debris will be trapped here and since the sponge is so fine, it is unlikely any debris would make it through to the bio media section, so less frequent cleaning.

However, I was told to clean the pre-filter module once every week, reason is if one of the holes on the transparent pipe were to get clogged, the flow rate of the filter would be greatly affected. I think spending 5 mins every week is a fair trade.

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## jackychun

That sounds very nice the filter you are using! I really like the convenience of cleaning the prefilter 5 mins a week! 


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## Fujisasuke

Very nice explanation of this new filter! i was contemplating about this filter when i saw it at seaview few weeks ago, thanks for the writing about yr experience using this filter!

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## j.c.koh

In this update I will focus on the faunas. Some are new, others had grown up. 






This is my male samurai gourami. initially I had a pair, I don't have the pictures of the female. the female had a much redder body that resembles the armor plate of a samurai. The light I'm using had little red spectrum so I'm unable to bring out the color to her full potential. 

When I brought them home they refused to feed on the food I provided. Then 5 days later the female jumped out of the tank when I was out at work. I thought of buying another one to accompany the male but he's still not eating. Not sure if he's able to survive I dropped the idea.

He has been with me for 4 months now and he still show no interest in the flakes and pellets I provided. I seriously had no idea what he had been eating all these months, but he looks healthy, that's all that matters. And he looked happy alone so I'm just gonna leave it this way for now.

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## hann

I have eight pairs when I first started. Now I am left with 2 pairs. Samurai gourami has always been challenging to upkeep. They are particular about food. Even though they accepted sera O-nip but they don't eat a lot. Those which chose not to even eat even blood worm last but not Long in my tank.

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## j.c.koh

Ya, he's a damm fussy eater. Definitely won't be getting more until I find a good way to feed them.

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## j.c.koh

This is the forktail blue-eye, it belongs to the same pseudomugil family as the getrudae. 

I like the forktail's color better, they are more intense. Their wings/fins are shorter and looks tougher. My getrudae's wings were very flimsy, the males wings all got torn up when they are fighting over girls. 

Same like the getrudae, they do not need special care, just put them in the tank and they are good to go. They are top-mid swimmers. 





These are the 3 SAE that's helping me fighting the algae war right now, very hardworking. I feel guilty chasing them away when I'm feeding the tank. I'm afraid once they had too much flakes they'll start slacking off.



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## Zep

Hi, I feed my samurai gouramis Dr Basleer garlic. They swim over to me whenever I am near. When I just had them they didn't eat much but after a few days they got used to the food and kept begging for more. 

I have 4 samurais in a com tank and so far so good. 



Maybe you can try Dr Bassleer.

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## mdm

anyone got the same feeling that this hobby is slowing down in Singapore?

i was at Qianhu, Y628 and Sea View and seemed like there were lesser crowds

fish forums also lesser threads and replies nowadays

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## j.c.koh

@zep,

Wow, your samurai's color's very nice! The redness of my female is nothing like yours. 

The main food I'm using is the dr bassleer biofish-fish. That spoilt brat not eating leh. My guess is he's feeding on the shrimplets in the tank. The shrimps had been breeding like crazy, I guess it buys me some time to train him to feed.


@mdm,

Ya the forum is very quiet lately.
There's still some crowd over at sea view, but for qianhu.... Very sad.... 



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## Zep

Thanks @j.c.koh. Guess once they stabilize their colour will come out. I have one or two more females and the colour is nowhere near this one. You can also observe the females establishing their pecking order if you have a few. 

Seaview still has crowds. C328 is always still busy. Really hope the hobby and the shops can sustain. 

The forums and chat groups are quieter though.

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## j.c.koh

@zep,

Too bad the max I can go for is a pair due to my tank size.
When I was at AA months ago they put a bunch in the display tank. The way they swim together is quite breathtaking.

It's quite sad to see a few smaller LFS in my neighborhood closing down 1 by 1.

Since 2005, I've been going down to the aquarama exhibition almost every time. Now they also moved to China liao....

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## mdm

> @zep,
> 
> Too bad the max I can go for is a pair due to my tank size.
> When I was at AA months ago they put a bunch in the display tank. The way they swim together is quite breathtaking.
> 
> It's quite sad to see a few smaller LFS in my neighborhood closing down 1 by 1.
> 
> Since 2005, I've been going down to the aquarama exhibition almost every time. Now they also moved to China liao....



huh? you mean no more bi-annually aquarama exhibition in Singapore liao?  :Shocked:  :Sad:

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## j.c.koh

@mdm,

Now they all host at China liao, next year at Shanghai.

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## j.c.koh

Sorry guys, I meant to post the update last week but had been busy though out the weekend causing the delay.

That's how the tank looks now :







The rocks are free from bba now, there are still bba on the hair grass and mc but it's now within control. A little trimming from time to time should reduce them even more.

I had a problem I would need some advise from you guys. 



While I was trimming weeks ago the soil from the top suddenly rolled down covering the mc carpet, I tried removing it by hand but it only gets worse. 

Is there a way to remove the soil on the mc carpet? 

If not do I leave it as it is or rooted up the mc and replant it? 



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## torque6

> While I was trimming weeks ago the soil from the top suddenly rolled down covering the mc carpet, I tried removing it by hand but it only gets worse. 
> Is there a way to remove the soil on the mc carpet? 
> If not do I leave it as it is or rooted up the mc and replant it? 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Landslide? Any support place during the setup to support the soil last time? I usually use SKP food grade cut out (from plastic box) for this purpose.

I would just siphon out the top soil from that patch and place the soil back. Any bare spots you can place the soil back is fine. Use those tubing that can fit 2-3 grains of soil pellets so not to risk siphoning up the MC (but should be fine if MC is already deep rooted).

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## j.c.koh

@torque6,

I did placed a lot of black corrugated plastic bought at popular bookstore when doing set up. By right it shouldn't happen lol.

OK, I will siphon them out during next water change.

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## torque6

When I did my setup, I was also considering the use of black corrugated plastic, but compared to SKP hard plastic box cuttings, SKP is more rigid.

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## j.c.koh

I see, thanks for the info.

I would consider using it when doing rescape.

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## fireblade

For the soil on the MC , I will leave it as it is as MC is a fast growing plant and the patch will be covered with nice green plants again...
the sad thing to see in LFS is the lack of water change , cloudy water and dead fish.

For Qian Hu, I think if their price is lower, there'll be more people visiting the place.

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## j.c.koh

@fireblade,

Agreed, I don't remember buying anything from them as it's quite pricey. But their livestock selection not bad, alot of interesting fishes to look at.. I remember chancing upon the upside down catfish lol

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## jackychun

How is the BBA fighting battle, bro? Is this under control now?  :Grin:

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## j.c.koh

Yo jacky thanks for asking, it's definitely under control now.

After there's no more bba on the rocks, I had called for a crease fire on the h202 chemical warfare 2 weeks ago. 
I didn't clean the lily pipes for 2 weeks and there's no bba growing on it which is a good thing.

There are still bba on the plants but they are not spreading as much as they use to. It's lesser now so it's easier to observe the spreading. 

The SAE are very hardworking, in fact they are too hardworking to the point that I'm not sure if I had finally solved the issue by tuning to the right balance of the tank or they simply just eat up the bba.... lol

1 of the bigger SAE is showing more and more aggressions towards the tankmate day by day, I might consider releasing them back to the LFS once the problem is resolved. 

This is how the tank looks now :



The mc are not growing at the speed they used to anymore, good and bad, less trimming for me. 
There are some browning on the hair grass patch, I'll nurse them back to good health. 

When there are new bba on plants they are always on tip of the hair grass. 



There's more on the left side of the tank. Not sure if there's anything to do with the flow, but I will continue to observe. 



bba on the mc, I believe most are the left over after the out-break, they seems to attack more on the hair grass than the mc now. I'll trim them off bit by bit weekly as the mc are already very thin, don't wanna mess up the balance again. 

There seems to be alot of algae on my rocks,


I think It's the GSA or the GDA, couldn't really tell the difference though. It's weird that with my cleaning crew of 5 otos, 3 SAE and an army of about 50+ shrimps, they are not able to reduce the amount on the rocks. 

I'm not complaining though as I really like the looks of it, it gave the tank a very nice aged/vintage look. But I do wonder if it's a warning sign of something is off. Anyone with experiences on the GSA or GDA? 






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## hann

Apologies for hijacking this thread. On the third last picture at the corner left, it looks like cynobacteria. Correct me if I am wrong. If yes, does anyone has success removing them without a chemical warfare? I think this is more persistent than bba.

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## jackychun

The rocks surely make your tank look very mature, bro. I think you can try using a brush to brush it off. Maybe the one with metal bristles if those are stubborn.

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## j.c.koh

Hi Hann, I don't think it's the BGA.
It's the GSA or GDA that's on the glass like the one on the second picture. 
Usually I'll scrap them off once every week. I got lazy this 2 weeks.

I think in the third picture, because it's out of focus at the side so it looks as if it's growing on top of the plant but it's not.

I do not have any experience dealing with BGA, I do read about how tough and persistent they can be.

Maybe those with experiences might be able to help. 

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## AQMS

wow! this is bad... :Shocked:

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## BFG

> Apologies for hijacking this thread. On the third last picture at the corner left, it looks like cynobacteria. Correct me if I am wrong. If yes, does anyone has success removing them without a chemical warfare? I think this is more persistent than bba.


Try directing more water flow in that area , might be due to dead spot .

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## torque6

> Try directing more water flow in that area , might be due to dead spot .


I never believe that BGA is due to dead spots. It is possible for a large tank but for a small nano iwagumi with little or no obstructing hard scape? Don't think so. I have had BGA growing intensively on my lily pipes in my previous setup and inflow pipes, surely those areas aren't dead spots? The only reason you are seeing BGA is 3 things. High Phosphate + low nitrate, dirty pipes + filter and unhealthy, slow growing planted environment.

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## j.c.koh

An update,

Things are looking good so far, BBA had stopped growing on equipments and rocks, I think that means the living environment is no longer in favor of them.

MC bounced back and starts spreading again. I've been doing weekly trims getting rid of the infected plants bit by bit. With the MC spreading again, the battle is pretty much winnable. Another month of trimming might do it.


Lately I'm having alot of bubbles on the side of the tank after lights off. I understand oily surface contributes to the problem but the bubbles still forms even after I use the surface skimmer in the morning. It never happened in the pass, just recently.

Does anyone knows the cause of the bubbles and how to deal with it? 

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## jackychun

Good to know that the BBA has been controlled, bro!  :Smile:  

For the bubble, I don't know if that is the sign for water change?  :Grin:  Anyway, you can try to lift the Lily pipe outlet to surface and create aeration together with surface skimmer. 
IMO, the aeration will break down the oily surface and those bubble, too. Then surface skimmer would suck that all.  :Smile:

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## j.c.koh

The photo is taken 24hour after water change lol
OK I'll play around with the height of the lily pipe and see if it gets better.

Yo jacky, I had something that ungently need your advice.
I'll be taking a short vacation with my family next week with no one left in the house to dose the fertilizers for 4 days. 

Is there anything I can do before leaving the house? 
Can the tank make it 4 days without fertilizers?

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## NanoScaper

> 


Apologies for the mundane question.

The clear hook thermometer at the top right of this picture, what brand is it and where did you get it from?

Thank you in advance.

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## jackychun

> The photo is taken 24hour after water change lol
> OK I'll play around with the height of the lily pipe and see if it gets better.
> 
> Yo jacky, I had something that ungently need your advice.
> I'll be taking a short vacation with my family next week with no one left in the house to dose the fertilizers for 4 days. 
> 
> Is there anything I can do before leaving the house? 
> Can the tank make it 4 days without fertilizers?


Hi bro JC,

No worries much on your 4 days vacation. I used to be away 7 days without taking care of the tanks. They looked even better when I came home. LOL  :Grin: 
What I would do before the vacation:-
- A week before vacation: keep monitoring the CO2 and lighting, automatically on/off in time? Feeding daily to keep them in good condition. Keep it as such and don't try to tweak anything. :P Observing how much water evaporated in 4 days (your days of vacation), you would know roughly how much water loss during the vacation. I think in 4 days, it should be alright. 
- A day or 2 before vacation: doing water change for about 50%. Dosing fertilizers as usual. Feeding fishes well.
- The day you go for vacation: dosing the fertilizer double of what you normally do. Tank will be alright without dosing fertilizers for a few days. No worries. :Grin:  Feed the fish well before you go. Top up the water to the max that you can, if you have chiller, that is fine, no need to worries much about water evaporation. For me, I use fan, so I turn off the fan. Let the fish enjoy Singapore heat for few days.  :Grin: 

That's all. Bon voyage!  :Smile:  

Oh, if you have CCTV at home, try to point it at your fish tank and observe it daily see if on/off is OK, water level is OK. Nothing much you can do since nobody at home, but at least you have a peace in mind that everything is OK.  :Grin:  

Enjoy the trip bro!  :Smile:

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## j.c.koh

@nanoscaper,
The thermometer is gush brand, it's part of the purchase when I bought the 2nd hand tank + cabinet last year.

I think lfs that sells gush items should have it. You can try green chapter or AA.


@jacky,
Bro thanks for the help. ^^v


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## NanoScaper

> @nanoscaper,
> The thermometer is gush brand, it's part of the purchase when I bought the 2nd hand tank + cabinet last year.
> 
> I think lfs that sells gush items should have it. You can try green chapter or AA.


Thanks, j.c.koh.

I did check out GC for the GUSH brand thermometers recently and found out that they have gotten longer and there are no more clear ones.

Maybe I'll check out AA next time.

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## NanoScaper

Sorry, my bad. The GUSH ones at GC are the clear type thermometers.

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## j.c.koh

Guys, is this the infamous GBA? 

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## torque6

it has the same color as BGA but I may be wrong, siphon them and see if it has a strong smell.

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## j.c.koh

Hi torque6,

I used a credit card in between the glass and substrate to scrape off what's on the glass during the last water change. 

It had no strong smell and not slimey, it had more like a hard and dusty feel. It became powdery and dissolved into the water the moment I scrape it off.

I have not seen the GBA before, only photos on the net.
I'm hoping it's not the GBA but the color seems too dark to be GDA or anything else. Strange......

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## milk_vanilla

Seems bga to me.

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## j.c.koh

@milk_vanilla,

I guess you are right. The color does match lol

I hope it doesn't spread above the substrate.

Meanwhile I'm using black tape to cover them up for a week, I'll see if it gets better.

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## torque6

Black tape does reduce the growth, but best to siphon them out. Dead BGA doesn't stay dead, it will grow again in the right conditions. Becareful of uprooting the plants though and use a needle shape straw for siphoning if possible. As long as you have BGA in the substrate, your waters will start having this foul smell. It will end up in your canister, lily pipes etc..

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## j.c.koh

Hi torque6,

Thanks for the advices. Do you think it would work if I use a syringe to slowly siphon them out?

The tank is 1 year old next week. 
Touch wood* if it does spread like crazy then I think a rescape next year is in order. Hands itchy to try something else :Opps:

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## fishbeflippin

is your 1/15 arctica chiller enough for the 2ft? or will u recommend 1/10?

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