# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  The secrets to growing the "perfect fronds" ?

## BeyondGomer

Almost anyone can grow moss, but what does it take to grow these wonderfully branching fronds that I see. They have great triangular shape and great branching. 

Is it a micro nutrient, macro nutrient, light, CO2, water hardness or water temp issue.

Anyone have any secrets  :Smile: ...or atleast "recipes" for growth?

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## hwchoy

I had great success with water at 20°C (68°F) without any nutrient nor substrate, other than DIY CO2, low light, and 6 pencilfishes (_Nannostomus marginatus_).

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## Slaigar

Right now I am trying heavy water flow to grow my taiwan and erect moss in my nano. The tank that they are in _was_ going be low temperature as well, but the lights are warming the tank up to 26->28 degrees Celsius! Because of the lighting, I am noticing a bit of algae. The mosses have not turned brown yet so that is good news.

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## Green Baron

I believe the most important factors are bioload and temperature.
Try growing them with no or just 1 or 2 fishes. Light, nutrients and CO2 helps but are not critical. And of course no SAE or shrimps !  :Evil:  

My tanks which have the most healthy mosses have no CO2, no base fert low light (<2W/G) and very few fishes.

The problem with high light is that if you don't control the nutrients well, you will end up algae on the leaves, which makes the moss looks brown instead of light green.

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## imported_diki

> The problem with high light is that if you don't control the nutrients well, you will end up algae on the leaves, which makes the moss looks brown instead of light green.


May I know wat wattage of light do u consider hight light? I got 36W & 55W (PL light), 15W (FL) and 9W (bulb) types. Which one is more suitable to grow moss? Having java moss and taiwan moss (soon). I also put a container with java moss tied to bogwood beside the window. Just water and some liquid fertilizer. Nothing else. Once I have a driftwood with java moss and it grows very well in this condition.  :Wink:

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## Green Baron

Dickson,
The type of light required will depend on the size of your aquarium.
We typically refer to high light as anything above 3W/G and low light as below 2W/G. This is not necessary true for small tank (<2ft or <10G).

For low maintenance tank, I use 11W or 13W PL for tanks below 5G (1ft) and 15W FL for 10G (2ft) tanks.

For my 15G tank with CO2 injection, I have 2x35W PL.

BTW, I also have a 4G low maintenance tank in my office which I am using 2x15W PL so that the glooso will creep. I plan to reduce the light back to 13W once the glosso has formed a carpet.

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## imported_diki

Thanks for the reply, GanCW.

Sorry for not indicating the size of my tank. Currently I have 2 x 2ft (standard 2 x 1 x 1) and a 1 ft tank. My intention is to convert all to low maintanence tanks (getting lazy nowadays  ::smt019: ) 

I was thinking that using the 15W FL light might not be enough for my plants (previous tank setup) so got a 55W PL light instead. My current most light hungry plant is my tiger lily. Is 36W able to substain it? BTW, I'm using mostly moss and java ferns for my planted tank now (got the itch after see some bros moss tanks out there). Didn't know moss tanks can be so nice as well. No CO2 injection for all tanks but may start DIY CO2 if I get force myself to do it. Any further advice is welcome. 

 :Wink:

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## Jane of Upton

OK, this may be a silly question, but why did someone say no freshwater shrimps?

I've just gotten my first bit of Taiwan/Christmas moss and some Singapore moss, and I was planning to put it in a tank with Cherry Shrimps to keep it groomed. 

I usually think of the shrimps as being beneficial, as they pick the algae off. I wouldn't dream of keeping glosso without its shrimp cleaning crew!

Do the shrimp and SAEs actually EAT this type of moss? Have I never noticed the damage on java moss? 

Thanks for any information.
-Jane

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## Green Baron

> OK, this may be a silly question, but why did someone say no freshwater shrimps?
> 
> I've just gotten my first bit of Taiwan/Christmas moss and some Singapore moss, and I was planning to put it in a tank with Cherry Shrimps to keep it groomed. 
> 
> I usually think of the shrimps as being beneficial, as they pick the algae off. I wouldn't dream of keeping glosso without its shrimp cleaning crew!
> 
> Do the shrimp and SAEs actually EAT this type of moss? Have I never noticed the damage on java moss? 
> 
> Thanks for any information.
> -Jane


Jane,
Welcome to killies.com. 
SAE is a no no as they love to eat the young leaves (the tip). Shrimps are ok in small quantity but if you have lots of them or if they are breeding in the tank, then you will find your moss stunted as they do nibble on the young leaves as well.

I keep a few shrimps in all my moss tank.

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## Green Baron

> Thanks for the reply, GanCW.
> 
> Sorry for not indicating the size of my tank. Currently I have 2 x 2ft (standard 2 x 1 x 1) and a 1 ft tank. My intention is to convert all to low maintanence tanks (getting lazy nowadays ) 
> 
> I was thinking that using the 15W FL light might not be enough for my plants (previous tank setup) so got a 55W PL light instead. My current most light hungry plant is my tiger lily. Is 36W able to substain it? BTW, I'm using mostly moss and java ferns for my planted tank now (got the itch after see some bros moss tanks out there). Didn't know moss tanks can be so nice as well. No CO2 injection for all tanks but may start DIY CO2 if I get force myself to do it. Any further advice is welcome.


Dickson,
If you are going for low maintenance, then 55W is probably too much for you nanas and mosses and 36W is more than sufficient. 

Other plants you may want to consider for low maint tanks are Ludwigia reprens and Amazon Swordplants

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## strung_0ut

Check out this site: www.aquamoss.net. I wrote an article recently on what I think on how moss growing works. Some of it is incorrect I found out, like origins of mosses and what not but I gave it a shot. This is Tan Sze Wei's website.

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## imported_diki

> Dickson,
> If you are going for low maintenance, then 55W is probably too much for you nanas and mosses and 36W is more than sufficient. 
> 
> Other plants you may want to consider for low maint tanks are Ludwigia reprens and Amazon Swordplants


Thanks GanCW, will use the 36W one for my low maintenance tank setup. Since I have other plants that require medium to high light, don't think I can afford to lose them so one tank would be for moderate maintenance tank using the 55W one.  :Wink:

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## imported_diki

> Check out this site: www.aquamoss.net. I wrote an article recently on what I think on how moss growing works. Some of it is incorrect I found out, like origins of mosses and what not but I gave it a shot. This is Tan Sze Wei's website.


That is rather a nice article. Interesting to add since you mentioned that the moss needs time to adapt to their environment. However, I do agree with you on this point. Looks like I don't need to dose liquid fertilizer so often for my moss since I do it whenever I feel like it. (2-3 weeks once) 

About keeping the water flowing, do you mean that with the water flowing, it should bring nutrients to the moss and also cool it as well? 

In my opinion, I do find that when growing moss, sunlight are better instead of artificial lighting. I usually put a container with tap water only beside the window (no direct sunlight usually) and my moss seems to grow pretty well there. I do worry about the temp for the water but somehow, the moss seems to be able to adapt well in there. Have tried this for java moss and now trying on taiwan and singapore moss. If all goes well, I would have nice moss on driftwood and maybe moss wall or carpet soon.  :Wink:

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## strung_0ut

> Originally Posted by MrSingh
> 
> Check out this site: www.aquamoss.net. I wrote an article recently on what I think on how moss growing works. Some of it is incorrect I found out, like origins of mosses and what not but I gave it a shot. This is Tan Sze Wei's website.
> 
> 
> That is rather a nice article. Interesting to add since you mentioned that the moss needs time to adapt to their environment. However, I do agree with you on this point. Looks like I don't need to dose liquid fertilizer so often for my moss since I do it whenever I feel like it. (2-3 weeks once) 
> 
> About keeping the water flowing, do you mean that with the water flowing, it should bring nutrients to the moss and also cool it as well? 
> 
> In my opinion, I do find that when growing moss, sunlight are better instead of artificial lighting. I usually put a container with tap water only beside the window (no direct sunlight usually) and my moss seems to grow pretty well there. I do worry about the temp for the water but somehow, the moss seems to be able to adapt well in there. Have tried this for java moss and now trying on taiwan and singapore moss. If all goes well, I would have nice moss on driftwood and maybe moss wall or carpet soon.


Thanks for reading it. 

In flowing water, I mean good oxygen levels and keeping the water cooler. I've always had a theory about oxygen helping to grow moss before Loh came out with Dr. Benito's theory about injecting oxygen and this was before my co2 days, which I would constantly deny the fact that co2 is needed to grow moss. With sunlight I've always had a problem with algae despite what was in the tank. There was an outdoor tank posted on www.aquaticplantcentral.com that just threw me away. It was a magnificent tank. Good luck with your mosses.

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## RonWill

OFF TOPIC but isn't this the discussion that Kwek Leong supposedly deleted? Or was there another 'perfect frond' thread??

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## timebomb

> OFF TOPIC but isn't this the discussion that Kwek Leong supposedly deleted? Or was there another 'perfect frond' thread??


This is the one, Ronnie. For some strange reason, this thread appeared on my monitor again after I did a logged out and in. Either my eyes are playing tricks on me or there's something wrong with my brain  :Laughing: 

Loh K L

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