# Killies Import > Planted Tanks >  Suggestion for Aquascape

## FC

Hi,

I planned to change my 4x2x2 ft tank's plant type from stem plant focus to mainly rossette.

I need help in aquascaping such plants like:
- Aponogeton madagascarensis 
- Aponogeton rigidifolius 
- Barclaya longifolia 
- Crypt Parva 
- Echinodorus x barthii 
- Echinodorus horemanii 'Red' 
- Echinodorus rubra/siris 
- Echinodorus 'Rubin'

I will use 2~3 type of the above plants, I think, as they are solitary plants. I wish to focus on them to bring out their beauty.

If you have photos or scatches to share with me, I would appreciate.

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## checkerboard

This is a very interesting post and it is a pity that not many has responded thus far. While I do not think I qualify to give advice, I have the following comments.

A problem that I then to find with rosette plants is that while they are stupendous as a centre piece, it is difficult usually to combine many different rosette plants to fill out the spaces in a neat manner because the space under the overhanging leaves of large echinodorus species for instance is hard to fill. unless your tank is pretty huge, it can look a bit untidy or cluttered. 

The list stated are predominantly larger plants (and red may i say), except the Crytocoryne parva. Assuming that you want an entire tank using rosette plants, the parva can then form your foreground. (it will take a long time to get established) A much quicker alternative is the common E. tennellus, which gives a very textured look. A side point. Cryptocoryne species are all rosette and given patience and time, each species can develop into real beauties, even the much underrated C. wendtii, costata and ciliata.

A tank of many individual rosette plants each competing for attention would be distracting. However, if you have a large clump of one paticular species in an area of the tank, it can be pretty. Although your list do not have E. uruguayensis, I have personally seen this plant planted in dense groups at the corner of big tanks to great effect.(some of Amano books has this as well) From your list, perhaps E. osiris can be used instead.

from your list, I will, select parva for the foreground and other empty spaces. At the rear to one side, has a huge clump of A. rigidifolius with some crypts, pr A. madagascaris beneath to "soften" the stripy feel. A. rigidifolius is a good choice because it does not wither unlike most Aponogeton species. However, do not that A. rigidifolius is another slow grower initially.

perhaps, barclaya longifolia 'green' can form the focal point at the 1/3 of the tank in front of some rocks or wood. behind the wood, either E. osiris or E. horemanni. Do have a space in the middle to aviod clutter and for neatness. 

hope this helps and you can have a nice tank of rosette plants. Do post some pictures when you are done! :wink:

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## timebomb

> This is a very interesting post and it is a pity that not many has responded thus far. While I do not think I qualify to give advice, I have the following comments.


Yew Kiat, I'm glad you responded to Freddy's post. You made some very good comments and I think you shouldn't worry about not being qualified to give advice. We're here to share what we know. 

There's nothing much I can add to what you've said other than to point out that Crypt parva's are very slow growers. A friend who has this plant in his tank told me the parva produce only 5 new leaves a year. Crypts, in general, look a lot nicer if they are planted in groups. 

I no longer grow Echinodorus' because the last few grew so tall their leaves float at the surface. I wanted to give away an E. osiris a few years ago but no one wanted it because it was so huge. It was more than 3 feet in length. Only after much persuasion, a fish shop took the plant from me. Imagine having to persuade them to take the plant when I was giving it away for free. 

It's actually kind of strange when I look back at how I started. In the old days before anyone knew of such things as CO2 injection, the plant I wanted very badly to grow well was an _Echinodorus bleheri_ - Amazon sword. Nowadays, any aquatic gardener worth his salt wouldn't even think about having such a plant in his tank. It's a shame though as the bleheri can be quite a lovely plant if grown well.

Loh K L

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## FC

Yew Kiat,

Thank you for your pointers, they are very helpful and I had printed it out for reference.

I have something in mind, it is a simple one that have:
-A slim row of Vallisneria as back ground
-E. Tennelus as carpet
-A large rossette (?) at left corner to cover my filter pipes
-Some low light plants under the above large plant
-Aponogeton madagascarensis stand alone at right corner?
-Barclaya/Echinodorus 'Rubin' narrow as highlight plant

Just a rough ideal. the problem I always have is how to put them together to work.

I received a nice layout picture from Kim which has good proportion that is presence to the eyes. However, it involved woods and rocks which I have problem handling them but they are good elements.

How is your tank doing? I pass by your place every weekend (along Bukit Timah) but I am not sure if you are in.

Thank you.

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## RonWill

> I received a nice layout picture from Kim which has good proportion that is presence to the eyes. However, it involved woods and rocks which I have problem handling them but they are good elements.


Yo Freddy, how about sharing that layout? The mention of woods and rocks sure caught my attention as I'm still drawing inspiration from nice pics and info from posts. Perhaps that will get me off my lazy butts and do something about it.

I can't comment on how others wishes to rescape their tanks (I don't qualify either  :Opps:  ) but I'm thinking that my reddish _Barclaya longifolia_ will add some color contrast to an otherwise all green setup. At about 20" high, it could easily draw attention too! But do swing by to pick up the _longifolia_... it's yours and it deserves a better home :wink: 

It's puzzling when you mentioned, "_...woods and rocks which I have problem handling them but they are good elements._" Why would that be so? Please enlighten.

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## Green Baron

> Hi,
> I planned to change my 4x2x2 ft tank's plant type from stem plant focus to maily rossette.


I noticed those who have been into planted tank for some time tend to avoid fast growing stem plants and go for slow growing plants. ;-)
Stem plant looks nice but they generally grown too fast and requires too much effort to maintain. I myself have also switched to slow growing plants such as Crypts, Echi, Lobelia, Moss, Anunias and slow growing Hygrophila sp.




> It's actually kind of strange when I look back at how I started. In the old days before anyone knew of such things as CO2 injection, the plant I wanted very badly to grow well was an _Echinodorus bleheri_ - Amazon sword. Nowadays, any aquatic gardener worth his salt wouldn't even think about having such a plant in his tank. It's a shame though as the bleheri can be quite a lovely plant if grown well.


KL,
_E bleheri_ is one of my favorite Echi. sp. I had them before I even knew about CO2 system and they florished without any CO2 and base fert. I still plant them as background plant in my no CO2 no fert moss tank. They look lovely when planted in groups. 

Gan

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## FC

Ronnie,

I hope Kim do not mind me showing off his talent. Here is his sketches:


From your tank's picture, I can see that the Barclaya is your favourite plant. Thank you for your generous offer, in return, I will place it at mid ground as solitary plant. When I post the picture in due time, I hope you will go...hm...my baby is there :wink: .

I have problem with keeping hard objects in my tank (I guess my laterite base is the culprit), spot algae love them. I hope that water can stand, so that I have no glass wall to house this uninvited guest. I cannot tolerate any form of algae, so if I do use wood or rocks, they have to be clothed with plants. And again, unlike any other plants, I have problem with growing mosses, they shy away from my tank, stunted like alien in the tank.


Gan,

Yes, I wish to have plants that require less pruning while having a more stable aquascape. Besides, I am travelling quite abit and if my company succeed in getting the big project in Indonesia, I may be there for months. Having said that, I have not reach the stage that I am tired of pruning (I actually enjoy it) but the routine of destroying the aquascape every 3 weeks (pruning intervals) is heart breaking.

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## imported_aquaticscapes

May I inquire who Kim is? I think his aquascape rendition is the best I have seen.

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## hwchoy

Freddy, if you're into an aquarium as a natural history capsule, versus a garden, then you might want to consider the origins of the plants. e.g. with the natural history perspective, Echinodorus wouldn't go well with crypts (asian) nor barbs, but would do splendidly with characins.

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## FC

Don Matakis,

I do not know Kim, I think Ronnie knows him. I guess he is a Korean because his pictures which I received thtrough private message were posted in a Korean website. Oh yes, they were very well painted.

Heng Wah,

Thank you for your comments. Good point, I will take note of that.

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## blur one

> Yew Kiat,
> 
> Thank you for your pointers, they are very helpful and I had printed it out for reference.
> 
> I have something in mind, it is a simple one that have:
> -A slim row of Vallisneria as back ground
> -E. Tennelus as carpet
> -A large rossette (?) at left corner to cover my filter pipes
> -Some low light plants under the above large plant
> ...


Your set up is similar to my set up currently....but I am using hair grass....my pipe is on the right side and I am waiting for the Vals to cover them up.... also the right side of my tank does not quite make me happy.....you may want to have a look at it....

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...79#post2149479

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## FC

Kim Leng,

I see no picture except the forum which is of no interest to me. I would appreciate if you could link the picture directly, instead.

Thank you.

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## blur one

its in my galleries.... not too sure how to link it but here goes...

http://www.arofanatics.com/members/k...ofplantedtank/

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## RonWill

Don, welcome to the our little corner. How did you find the way to this forum?

While I try to meet up with fellow forumers, it's unlikely I get to hangout with those from overseas, like yourself and Kim, who's from Korea.

Kim is one artistic fella and his renditions of aquatic-scapes is really cool stuff. Here's one more of his illustration at this thread.

Sometimes, our plans changes and what I ended up was this...
  :Opps:

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## RonWill

Freddy, if you're into the 'unkempt' look, perhaps this might interest you.

While resting from flu and since it's a public holiday (Vesak Day), I decided to do a 2nd permanent setup for my killies.


I have a liking for driftwood, which somehow makes any setup more 'natural looking'.

... and a slightly closer view.

It's a day-old setup and should look 'raw' but I'll be waiting paitiently to see how the 'layering' goes.

There's _vallisneria_ at the rear right, and 4 bunch of _Blyxa aubertii_ beside and in front of the driftwood. At midground, there's your _B. japonica_ & _Echi. tenellus_ from Rashid.

Most of these plants are considered by Tropica as 'medium to high light' but I was plesantly surprised to find that Shortman's _Blyxa aubertii_ didn't die off. Instead of dark green, it's now 'fresh' green and flowering! :wink:

Freddy, the setup isn't filtered, aerated or CO² fertilized. There isn't any enriched base under the 'Lonestar' and it will receive only shaded ambient lighting... very low-maintenance! Game to try? :wink:

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## stormhawk

Ron, can't link up the pics. The links are correct but they do not end in .../.../nameofpic.jpg or .jpeg or .gif so the pics don't appear.

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## RonWill

Jian Yang, I'm not sure what else to do but update my '*Tank Page*'. You should be able to see the said 2nd 18incher, as well as the rest of the tanks.

2 more 18inchers coming in this Saturday... want to get your fingers wet?  :Twisted Evil:

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## A.Rashid

me coming Ronnie.

and this time round tdont tell me that I didnt inform you.

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## FC

Kim Leng,

Thank you for sharing the tank's photos. I like the space that you created, very good for fish watching.

Yes, it is about 50% what I wanted. I would likely to add more rossette plants.


Ronnie,

I do not know how you did it. Yes, the Blyxa is doing great there. It would be interesting to see how they develop 2~3 weeks from now, I am sure the aquascape would turn out well . Keep us updated, ok?

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## hwchoy

Ronnie, did you say your _Blyxa aubertii_ didn't require strong light? I am going to re-do my 1ft cube and wanter a tall backdrop and considering aubertii. I have 13W PL and CO2 injection. Probably I will give it a try.

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## RonWill

Choy, I experimented with 4 stalks of _aubertii_, planted in a takeaway container and left this in a no-fuss tank, in natural ambient lighting.

Leaves were originally a darker green but as the plant adapted, and didn't die off, I was encouraged enough to plant them in their present tank and you're always welcomed to see how simple the setup is.

Freddy, I didn't do anything special for the _Blyxa japonica_ and will post further updates as the setup matures.

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## RonWill

Choy,
I recall you took some nice pics of the 'aubertii tank' esp with the overhead flash source. You may not consider these good but any chance of a download for me as I'm keeping track of the tank's development.

Ok folks,
Through discussions with hobbyists in another forum, they pointed me to a product call "_J. Arthur Bower's Aquatic Compost_"*** that can be considered, due to the lower nitrogen, in Diana Walstad-style low-maintenance setups. This will replace garden top soil and topped up with *Lapis Lustre or 'Lonestar' gravel*.

Thinking that a 6litre bag isn't much (heck, how big is a 2L soda bottle anyway), I instructed my wife to get 4 packets... which I later realized is almost 20kg worth (omigosh!!) and that's way more than I need!

Anyway, I'm hell-bent on going ahead with the setup and have uploaded the product's pics to the gallery for reference (*Aquatic Compost Album*) because I didn't find the necessary details at their compost page.

I'm going for a full-_echinodorus_ setup (hence a rich substrate base) with the following;
_Echinodorus_ 'Ozelot', 'A Flame', 'Rubin' (not Narrow), 'Oriental', _grandiflorus_, _parviflorus_ 'Tropica', _tenellus_ and _E. uruguayensis_. The foreground might be stuffed with some short _Eleocharis_ sp. from Freddy.

The list looks familiar and I could have posted it in other threads... but I forgot which one  :Opps:  Would appreciate further comments and layout suggestions.

*** Usual disclaimers: No affiliation etc :wink:

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## FC

Ronnie,

I have no experience with this compost but based on the description, it seems to be suitable for planted tank. It is good to have a hobby buddy like you who never fail to try new things - we get to learn free lessons  :Laughing:  . Thanks.

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## RonWill

Freddy, others at AQ have tried it with reasonable results, so I'm not going into it blindly or as brave as you think I am :wink: 

Forrest Gump once said, while reflecting on his life's journey, that "_life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what you're gonna get_".

We should never be afraid to try new things. It is that which enriches and adds new chapters to our lives.

That said, any idea how thick should I lay this 'aquatic soil'? Is 2inches too thick? I intend to lay another 2~3inches of Lonestar over it to prevent floating bits and pieces.

BTW, if you're game to experiment, swing by this Saturday and we can work on it.

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## FC

> Forrest Gump once said, while reflecting on his life's journey, that "_life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what you're gonna get_"


More than agree.



> That said, any idea how thick should I lay this 'aquatic soil'? Is 2inches too thick? I intend to lay another 2~3inches of Lonestar over it


You are about right. Remember to lay about 1 inch fresh gravel around the perimter of the tank's base to cover-up the compost and to prevent fertiliser leaking from the glass walls. I think the followings helps after you layed them:
1) fill the tank full with water - minimise disturbing the gravel
2) let it rest for 3~4 days
3) drain the water completely and refill
4) repeat step 2 & 3 once
5) the tank is ready for planting
6) for the first 2~3 weeks, change water at least once a week at 35% each time. After that, the substrate should stabilise.

I am invited... to the 24th floor fish shop - I am gamed.

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## RonWill

Freddy, why would I need to fill up and let rest for 3~4 days? What are we suppose to achieve? Would it be to...
let excess nutrient leach from the compost?
get rid of superfine suspended particles?
or...?




> 6) for the first 2~3 weeks, change water at least once a week at 35% each time. After that, the substrate should stabilise.


I expect non-filtered setup to take much longer in complete cycling, perhaps 2~3 months (especially when soil is involved) but how does the weekly water change help in this regard?

and yes... you're always welcomed to heat up the party! :wink:

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## FC

> let excess nutrient leach from the compost? 
> get rid of superfine suspended particles?


If you continue further, I have no more show anymore you know :P . You said it all. It will also let the compost have a chance to be fully soak up prior to use.

The 2~3 week's of weekly 35% water change is to ensure no chance of fertilser leak build up while ensuring that the bacteria can start the cycle. After that the substrate will be stable. With that, algae attack will be kept at bay.

I thought about your tank's height which are less than 18 inch, I suggest that you lay 1~1.5 inch of the compost and lay over about 1.5~2 inch of fresh gravel. This will look better asthetically.

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## ruyle

Freddy wrote:




> You are about right. Remember to lay about 1 inch fresh gravel around the perimter of the tank's base to cover-up the compost and to prevent fertiliser leaking from the glass walls.


Freddy, this comes as timely news as I'm about to set up a Walstad-style
aquarium this weekend. I've been soaking potting soil for over 6 weeks
now in rainwater and combing it of any coarse organics: bark, wood chips,
etc, and the above suggestion will be incorporated. I had a soil-based tank
before wherein I didn't soak the soil prior to using and left the layer exposed to the front glass. I had a continual battle with diatoms on the
front glass because of it.  :Rolling Eyes:  Thanks for the info!

Bill
farang9

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## RonWill

Hey Bill, I'm glad I won't be going at it alone... another sucker game to try "Walstad-style" on the other side of the big pond!  :Laughing:   :Laughing:  

Please do document the startup and progress of the tank, as will I, and let's compare notes as we progress. Suspect we'll be contending with algae problems, as excess nutrients leach into the water column, but we shall remain optimistic, ya? :wink: 

I wasn't able to commence on the said setup as there were too many guests/fellow-forumers around... perhaps I'll lay the aquatic compost/gravel tomorrow, let it soak and see if I work on it further (planting the _echinodorus_) this Saturday.

BTW, what's gonna be shoved into the substrate and have you settled for any particular 'theme'?

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## ruyle

Hi Ronnie,
Last week I had to help a friend with a brokedown pickup truck north of
town and didn't set up the tank. I had bought an All-Glass mini-bow 7
from a lady at work who was moving and didn't want it anymore. The base
the tank sets down into was cracked so I threw it away, anyhoo, the details: I have been soaking potting soil for several weeks and decanting
off the wood chips, floaties, etc, to where all that is left is the dirt and sand.
To this I mixed some Schultzes clay soil conditioner, about 1 part soil
conditioner to 3 parts soil. This was carefully laid down in the tank about 3/4 inch layer with a one inch margin (thanks, Freddy!) all the way around on the inside for the top layer: equal parts multipurpose sand (golden color, predominantly) crushed black lava rock (1/4inch granules and less) and clay soil conditioner at 1:1:1 ratio which gives it nice weight to hold the plants down when planting, and the crushed lava rock darkens it nicely--this was about an inch and a half layer, which I hope is adequate. Was going to add more but it started to thunder and lightning outside:-( I planted some aponos, crypts, a few foxtail (myrophyllum) anubias, rotala indica, and am
waiting for more plants I've gotten through Aquabid. Will take pics when it
is finally set up. How's your "Walstad" coming along?

Bill
farang9

ps lighting will just be a 13w cf kit from AH Supply using the Mirro reflector

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## RonWill

> How's your "Walstad" coming along?


Hi Bill,
It sounds like an interesting mix of substrate you've got there!

Started on the first of the Walstad-tanks yesterday and since I wanted a constant method that can be replicated, Aquatic Compost (AC) was layered straight out of the bag.

Instead of a all-round gravel perimeter, the 'margin' was scraped at only 2 sides which are exposed to ambient lighting.

Added and sloped the gravel (highest in the rear right) and did some planting (went plant-shopping with Sia Meng at Teo's and I'll try to get help on the names later).

There are some initial pics uploaded to the *Diana Walstad gallery folder*.

Let me work on it and take more pics during the day...

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## RonWill

Bill,
Here's a brighter shot taken earlier today.

Not familiar with some of the plants used because the farm calls 'em 'weeds' and I'm guessing there is...

_Ceratopteris thalictroides_ (water sprite)
Parrot feather? (_Myriophyllum aquaticum_ - Green)

Hope someone else can ID the rest.

There's 2 little platies in there as mozzie controllers and will replace them with killies when the tank is cycled.

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## ruyle

Ronnie,
The tank looks great! So this tank will only have natural light? And no
filtration? It must be nice to get such plants at your local "plant farm."  :Cool:  

Although I don't own any, I'm fond of the square-shaped tanks. Among
Dave Wood's considerable abilities is he makes most all of his own tanks!

If we haven't scared him off, maybe he can post his article of such somewhere in killies.com (first appeared in BKA's Killi-News).

My next project is to build a cube tank either a 14" cube or 16" cube, using
Dave's expert advice.

Regards,

Bill
farang9

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## RonWill

Bill, I'll be using the aquatic soil/gravel combo for a few tanks and this would be the first. The second will be a all-_Echinodorus_ tank and hopefully, to get it done before the weekend. A third in the pipeline, might just be a fern/_anubias_ tank. All of these will not be aerated, filtered, CO2 fertilized or has additional lighting (other than ambient lighting).

"It's a ridiculous idea", I was told but am still game to go with what I had originally planned. Growth-rate of the plants may not be at their best, or any bigger compared with high-light/co2 fert setups, but I'll gloat when there's a power outage  :Rolling Eyes: 

What we strive to achieve is balanced by what we are willing to provide. In the case of these Walstad-styled tanks, it's the maintenance time that appeals to me. I'm no longer willing to spend more time on planted setups, other than topping up, feeding the killies and appreciating them.

And of course I'm glad that there are friendly farms that allows me to exercise my whims... and doesn't cost an arm while I'm at it :wink: (at times, I wished they *did* provide shopping carts tho)

Square low tanks are quite fun to set up and fortunately, I have only 2 such tanks as it's quite easy to go overboard but for now, I'll leave tank-making out of my syllabus. Happy already if I could cut the d*mn glass straight and here's where I hope Dave will share his insight and experience, so I don't have to trash more glass pieces.




> If we haven't scared him off, maybe he can post his article of such somewhere in killies.com (first appeared in BKA's Killi-News).


Most of us don't bite or suck blood, although we may appear overly friendly by the full moon  :Twisted Evil:  ... that article may just soothe the savage beast!

While you work on the DIY tanks, do try to capture the stages. I'll bet it will be very satisfying to fill it up and not have it fall apart! :wink:

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## RonWill

Hi Bill (and those following the thread),

It seems like some of the plants are not adjusting well to being emersed, especially the _Crinum thaianum_ (with the limpy yellowing leaves) but of course, the setup is still too new to be conclusive. The _Cyperus helferi_  :Question:  and _Ceratopteris thalictroides_ seems to be doing ok tho. I'm experimenting with a small patch of emersed _Marsilea hirsuta_ placed at the right end of the driftwood.


Somewhere in the middle of the half-submerged wood is a small clump of _Hemianthus callitrichoides_ but I'm not sure if their roots will grip. Next to it on the right, is another unknown plant that supposedly came from Brazil. The leaves is '4-leaf clover-like' but has a long 'stem' and rhizome (*anyone knows??*).


A closer look at the _Hemianthus callitrichoides_ and the unknown 'clover'.


I was checking on the 2 platies and realized I've forgotten all about the _Aponogeton madagascariensis_ bulb. It's doing much better than I expected, especially when I've killed a good number of them. Curious as ever, I took a temp reading... and... (I don't believe it)... but it reads *25ºC*  :Exclamation:  Wow!! I should wish for more drizzily, windy days!


Will update when I see more plants die...  :Rolling Eyes:

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## ruyle

Ronnie, you might want to try some water lilies, too  :Cool:  I will try to find the
name of the 4-leaf clover plant. How about water shamrock?  :Smile:  OK, I'll
look--it is an easily available plant over here. Bog plants for emersed,
aquatic plants submersed? Neanthe bella palms work great as an emersed
plant.

Regards,

Bill

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## shortman

Ronnie,

The Aponogeton madagascariensis should be fine at your temperature of 28dC in your place. The other time I observe your tank temperature to figure it how you can so successfully in the low maintainance tank.

I having it around temperature of 28-30 dC and is doing fine at my small 1 feet tank only trick is crystal clear water.

Best Regards

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