# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  plant growth system 60

## limz_777

came across this video , wonder is this way of supplying co2 good ?

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## Urban Aquaria

Its a simple way to add Co2 into your tank, and it doesn't take up too much space... only thing is you have to remember to manually fill the submersed chamber everyday, so its not as convenient as using a Co2 tank with solenoid regulator linked to a timer system.  :Smile:

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## limz_777

was thinking of that method too , just not sure how effective is it

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## BFG

The old has made a come back! I remember seeing something similar way back when planted tank hobby started. Anyone remember it?

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## cheetf

> The old has made a come back! I remember seeing something similar way back when planted tank hobby started. Anyone remember it?


Have seen this being sold at seaview. Think they still sell them.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Have seen this being sold at seaview. Think they still sell them.


Thanks for the tip! 

I just popped by Seaview on the way today to check it out... they indeed do stock these Co2 systems! But its not from Tropica brand though, its from ISTA and Ocean Free brands instead.  :Very Happy: 

Here is a photo i took while i was there:



The ISTA brand Co2 Diffuser Set costs S$13 while the Ocean Free one costs S$17.

Both are packaged with a disposable Co2 can, a clear plastic diffuser chamber, air line tubing and a check valve. They basically work the same as the Tropica brand system.

Since Seaview currently has 15% discount on equipment purchases, therefore after the discount it works out to only S$11.05. 

So out of curiosity, i ended up buying a ISTA set to try out and see if it works (yeah, i can never resist the temptation to buy more gadgets!).  :Grin: 

Honestly, i figure its so cheap that anyone can just buy and try... for those who prefer a low cost setup, at least it should be much more effective than using dodgy Co2 tablets.  :Laughing:

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## AQMS

oooh yes i remember mine it was dennerle disposable co2 set back then.. :Smile:

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## Urban Aquaria

Hmmm, the ISTA set instructions show the standard method of setup and Co2 filling procedure for the diffuser chamber... but it doesn't indicate how much Co2 to fill (unlike the Tropica set which has recommended volume measurements), so would it be similar to the Tropica measurements too?

Or do users just fill up the diffuser chamber, allow the Co2 to get absorbed into the water, then do their own estimations and re-fill as and when required?

Has anyone used such systems before? Maybe can share your experience on it?

I also checked out the ISTA website and apparently you can connect multiple plastic diffuser chambers to "enlarge the Co2 contacting surface with the water flow"... which i assume means the Co2 enters the water through surface exchange within the diffuser chamber.

Here is a photo from their website:



Website link: http://www.tzong-yang.com.tw/en/prod...php?item_id=37

I'm familiar with the conventional pressurized Co2 tank/regulator/bubble counter/diffuser setups... but this is completely new to me.  :Grin:

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## milk_vanilla

Back to where you were belong ;-)

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## rafimo

Back in the 90s Tetra had a similar set up . They called it the bell concept because of the inverted plastic chamber to hold the CO2.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Back in the 90s Tetra had a similar set up . They called it the bell concept because of the inverted plastic chamber to hold the CO2.


Good info! I've just been reading a whole bunch of articles online about the various types of Co2 systems too, and this is indeed referred to as the "bell" system.  :Well done: 

Okay, from what i've read so far, it basically holds one huge Co2 bubble in the bell which dissolves slowly into the water... but because there is less water movement inside the bell, the diffusion efficiency would be lower than compared to a Co2 ceramic diffuser or reactor. Apparently such bell systems would usually still be able to achieve up to 10-20ppm Co2 levels in a tank (without any Co2 injection at all, naturally occurring Co2 in a tank with low surface agitation is around 4-5ppm)... so there should still be some benefits from the small increase in Co2, just not as much as compared to conventional pressurized Co2 tank/regulator/bubble counter/diffuser setups which can be cranked up to 30-40ppm and higher levels.

I guess this type of basic systems would suit those who want abit more Co2 in their tanks, without the need to DIY or purchase entire pressurized Co2 tank and regulator setups.

I'll test it out in one of my new tanks and see if there are any noticeable benefits (will be cycling that tank without fishes anyways, so might as well just use it as a plant-only grow-out test tank for the time being).  :Smile:

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## BFG

> Back in the 90s Tetra had a similar set up . They called it the bell concept because of the inverted plastic chamber to hold the CO2.


Yes, this was the one I remembered. 1st saw it being used at PetSafari a very long time ago, in their Pentas tank.

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## win18

Sorry to bump up an old thread...
but just got an idea to make a planted tank but want to used this simple bell system CO2, with some modifications  :Very Happy: 

is it possible if I just change the silicon stopper with some sponge like cigarette filter,
so the CO2 bubble can diffuse slowly from bottom and also from the cigarette filter  :Very Happy:

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## Urban Aquaria

> Sorry to bump up an old thread...
> but just got an idea to make a planted tank but want to used this simple bell system CO2, with some modifications 
> 
> is it possible if I just change the silicon stopper with some sponge like cigarette filter,
> so the CO2 bubble can diffuse slowly from bottom and also from the cigarette filter


Well, the Co2 that is inside the bell chamber isn't pressurized, its just a pocket of unpressurized Co2 gas that displaced the water in the chamber... so it wouldn't have that tiny misty bubble diffusion effect through a diffuser like from a pressurized Co2 tank system.  :Smile:

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## win18

> Well, the Co2 that is inside the bell chamber isn't pressurized, its just a pocket of unpressurized Co2 gas that displaced the water in the chamber... so it wouldn't have that tiny misty bubble diffusion effect through a diffuser like from a pressurized Co2 tank system.


thanks for the reminder for the pressure...
but just curious whether the water can exchange with the CO2 because of capillarity of the cigarette filter...

btw will try to play around with it after CNY...

and any idea where I can find some material like the cigi filter except salvage from a cigi...  :Very Happy:

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## Urban Aquaria

> thanks for the reminder for the pressure...
> but just curious whether the water can exchange with the CO2 because of capillarity of the cigarette filter...
> 
> btw will try to play around with it after CNY...
> 
> and any idea where I can find some material like the cigi filter except salvage from a cigi...


The amount of Co2 diffused into the water depends on the amount of contact (and amount of time of contact) the Co2 bubbles have with water, while water can soak into the cigarette filter and come in contact with the Co2 in the bell chamber (which is basically one big bubble), its still a rather tiny contact area for the Co2 to diffuse with the water.

The more efficient methods to diffuse Co2 is to create as much tiny bubbles as possible, like in those ceramic disc diffusers or atomizers, many tiny Co2 bubbles (the tinier the better) = more surface area for Co2 to contact water = higher diffusion rate into the water, then utilize the tank's flow and circulation to bring the diffused Co2 around to all the plants... the other method is to churn up and mix all the Co2 bubbles into the water until they are fully dissolved before releasing the Co2 enriched water into the tank, like in a reactor system. Both methods rely on getting as much surface area of Co2 to come in direct contact with water.  :Smile:

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## mercur1al

> Good info! I've just been reading a whole bunch of articles online about the various types of Co2 systems too, and this is indeed referred to as the "bell" system. 
> 
> Okay, from what i've read so far, it basically holds one huge Co2 bubble in the bell which dissolves slowly into the water... but because there is less water movement inside the bell, the diffusion efficiency would be lower than compared to a Co2 ceramic diffuser or reactor. Apparently such bell systems would usually still be able to achieve up to 10-20ppm Co2 levels in a tank (without any Co2 injection at all, naturally occurring Co2 in a tank with low surface agitation is around 4-5ppm)... so there should still be some benefits from the small increase in Co2, just not as much as compared to conventional pressurized Co2 tank/regulator/bubble counter/diffuser setups which can be cranked up to 30-40ppm and higher levels.
> 
> I guess this type of basic systems would suit those who want abit more Co2 in their tanks, without the need to DIY or purchase entire pressurized Co2 tank and regulator setups.
> 
> I'll test it out in one of my new tanks and see if there are any noticeable benefits (will be cycling that tank without fishes anyways, so might as well just use it as a plant-only grow-out test tank for the time being).



Urban Bro,

How was the test for the bell system cheapo CO2 injection? Looking into a temporary Co2 solution to help the hairgrass carpet, thereby will head back to a low tech tank. The stem plants are growing very well, but the hairgrass has not much growth.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Urban Bro,
> 
> How was the test for the bell system cheapo CO2 injection? Looking into a temporary Co2 solution to help the hairgrass carpet, thereby will head back to a low tech tank. The stem plants are growing very well, but the hairgrass has not much growth.


I tried the bell system for a short while (the ISTA brand version) in a plant holding tank... not sure if it really worked because my drop checker stayed blue throughout its usage and plant growth wasn't noticeably different, but i guess there was probably at least some Co2 concentration in the water, but just at low quantities. It requires regular daily top-ups to run though, not automated like a solenoid regulator system.

The dissolve rate on such systems really depends very much on the relationship of the surface area of the Co2 in the bell chamber versus the tank volume (each bell chamber has a fixed surface area though)... the more surface area the better the diffusion rate, so for larger tanks, you'll need to install larger bells or more bells to increase the dissolve rate. You can see the kit instructions recommending to install multiple bell chambers for larger tanks.

Here is the setup and usage video for the ISTA set, they also demonstrate using additional bell chambers to increase the Co2 diffusion rate:




I guess if the whole tank is full of multiple bell chambers then can see better effect.  :Grin: 

Anyways... if you want to maintain consistently good growth for all your plants, then its best to just go for a proper Co2 system from the start and stick with it. If you use Co2 injection for a while to grow out the plants, then remove the Co2 supply, those plants that utilized the Co2 to grow well will run into carbon limitations again and might just end up deteriorating over time, it'll be back to square one.

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## mercur1al

> I tried the bell system for a short while (the ISTA brand version) in a plant holding tank... not sure if it really worked because my drop checker stayed blue throughout its usage and plant growth wasn't noticeably different, but i guess there was probably at least some Co2 concentration in the water, but just at low quantities. It requires regular daily top-ups to run though, not automated like a solenoid regulator system.
> 
> The dissolve rate on such systems really depends very much on the relationship of the surface area of the Co2 in the bell chamber versus the tank volume (each bell chamber has a fixed surface area though)... the more surface area the better the diffusion rate, so for larger tanks, you'll need to install larger bells or more bells to increase the dissolve rate. You can see the kit instructions recommending to install multiple bell chambers for larger tanks.
> 
> Here is the setup and usage video for the ISTA set, they also demonstrate using additional bell chambers to increase the Co2 diffusion rate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I saw your comments at another thread, so i guess its not worth considering.

Co2 is a possibility eventually, but definitely not in this tank. Its actually sitting on a cupboard with no space to house anything else.... Hence low tech. If the hairgrass still doesnt carpet eventually, might go for one of those mini disposable CO2 that Ista or UpAqua has, or the Fluval 88g.

With the current tank set up and nothing much in terms of maintenance to do now daily (apart from replanting a couple of floaters) daily, am considering setting up a 1 foot nano tank for shrimps. Much like your 13l tank earlier. Is that still running by the way?

Alternatively, might considering clearing out my room space for a 2 foot ADA style tank with cabinet.... but all these still in planning stage. The 13L nano tank on my computer table is a bigger possibility at this moment.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I saw your comments at another thread, so i guess its not worth considering.
> 
> Co2 is a possibility eventually, but definitely not in this tank. Its actually sitting on a cupboard with no space to house anything else.... Hence low tech. If the hairgrass still doesnt carpet eventually, might go for one of those mini disposable CO2 that Ista or UpAqua has, or the Fluval 88g.
> 
> With the current tank set up and nothing much in terms of maintenance to do now daily (apart from replanting a couple of floaters) daily, am considering setting up a 1 foot nano tank for shrimps. Much like your 13l tank earlier. Is that still running by the way?
> 
> Alternatively, might considering clearing out my room space for a 2 foot ADA style tank with cabinet.... but all these still in planning stage. The 13L nano tank on my computer table is a bigger possibility at this moment.


I've already de-commissioned that 13 liter tank quite a while ago... nowadays if i setup small tanks like those, its mainly for temporary holding of plants or fishes/shrimps. I like to use those "guppy brand" plastic tanks now, much lighter and has folded edges that i can grip to carry around easily for cleaning, and when not in use i can stack them to save space too.  :Very Happy:

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## mercur1al

I have one of those as well, worked really well as a quarantine tank back when one of my rams was sick.

In a 13-15L nano tank for shrimps, what filter would you use?

Was thinking of just a simple HOB, but also thinking of planting some rotalas and glosso. In such a small tank, kinda worried that the surface agitation from a HOB will cause too much CO2 loss.

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## Urban Aquaria

> I have one of those as well, worked really well as a quarantine tank back when one of my rams was sick.
> 
> In a 13-15L nano tank for shrimps, what filter would you use?
> 
> Was thinking of just a simple HOB, but also thinking of planting some rotalas and glosso. In such a small tank, kinda worried that the surface agitation from a HOB will cause too much CO2 loss.


Yeah, those plastic tanks are my savior for multiple tank syndrome, whenever i feel like starting *yet another tank* to test out stuff, i just set them up for a few weeks, by which time i'll lose interest then de-comm them. Easy to clean up and easy to keep.  :Laughing: 

For smaller tanks i usually just use a small cheap hang-on filter, like a Dophin H80 (just grab some seasoned bio-media from another filter to fill it up), its very quiet and the flow rate provides more than sufficient circulation for small tanks, more often than not i have to adjust its flow down even further.

If you fill the water level up to the hang-on filter's ramp lip and adjust the flow rate lower, it usually reduces the water agitation by alot (the water surface can become very still), so not much issues with Co2 losses.

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## mercur1al

> Yeah, those plastic tanks are my savior for multiple tank syndrome, whenever i feel like starting *yet another tank* to test out stuff, i just set them up for a few weeks, by which time i'll lose interest then de-comm them. Easy to clean up and easy to keep. 
> 
> For smaller tanks i usually just use a small cheap hang-on filter, like a Dophin H80 (just grab some seasoned bio-media from another filter to fill it up), its very quiet and the flow rate provides more than sufficient circulation for small tanks, more often than not i have to adjust its flow down even further.
> 
> If you fill the water level up to the hang-on filter's ramp lip and adjust the flow rate lower, it usually reduces the water agitation by alot (the water surface can become very still), so not much issues with Co2 losses.


Yup, if im going the HOB route will go for the H80. Pretty happy the last time i used a Dophin HOB.

The nano tank itch is pretty hard to cure though, wanted my hand at keeping some shrimps but didn't want to risk it in my 1.5 foot. Not with the rams in there.... and I can't do without the rams. They are my weak spot.  :Opps:

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