# Planted Tanks > Aquascaping >  Planted Tank Newbie, 3ft Tank, DSM

## ross.chang

Hello everyone  :Smile: ,

Ive been reading on this forum for a while now. Ever since I bought a pico shrimp tank for kids/wife, the interest in planted aquarium gradually grew.

Its been a while since I had a fish tank, the last one I had is a 4ft bare gold fish tank more than 20 years ago. Lesser and lesser attention had been given to that tank since college and uni, dont even know when but it was thus left alone.

Now, fast forward back to the present. Owning the pico shrimp tank for a few weeks, set it up sand base and planted some basic plants. I notice how much I enjoy staring at it lol  :Grin: Thus after much deliberation, Ive decided to clean up a small walkway corner, did some measurement, and figure I could actually house a 4ft tank, but stretching it to 4ft would cramp up the space thus, decided it shall be 3ft then.


Till date, Ive acquired a 2L Co2 + ANS solenoid, a Eheim classic 150 which right now I think is insufficient, some lily pipes from a forumer, a 3ft ANS Opticlear tank and a Twinstar 900E LED from east ocean.


After much reading Ive decided Ill go with Dry Start as I still do not know what I want, how I wanna layout etc.



Today is the 7th day since dry start begun, ill back post some photos first  :Smile:

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## ross.chang

Aquasoil + stone + drift wood added.

Wife n kids had their time positioning the stone and the wood  :Laughing: 

Add water up till soil level.

Had the Staurogyne Repen and th HC hand chop into smaller chunk, and started planting for the first time...  :Grin:

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## ross.chang

Here is the planted result of day one  :Blah: 

(eik... kept telling me upload of file fail?...)

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## torque6

S repens, DSM may melt, so take note. HC on the other hand should be fine. When do you intend to flood the tank?

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## ross.chang

> S repens, DSM may melt, so take note. HC on the other hand should be fine. When do you intend to flood the tank?


On the S Repens, monitoring them daily lol... already 1 week now, s repens show some sight of grown, notice that they are slightly taller comparing to day 1. Leaves are still looking healthy. It might be just me but I think I notice small leaves are growing out from the top? too early for that right?

Planning to do 6 week DSM, might be doing some addition or rearrangement during this period. still haven't settle on the filter yet, think I might get the ecco pro 300.

Just sent my 2nd hand 2L CO2 canister for refill at polyart clementi. will test out the solenoid when collected back 3 days later.

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## torque6

> On the S Repens, monitoring them daily lol... already 1 week now, s repens show some sight of grown, notice that they are slightly taller comparing to day 1. Leaves are still looking healthy. It might be just me but I think I notice small leaves are growing out from the top? too early for that right?
> 
> Planning to do 6 week DSM, might be doing some addition or rearrangement during this period. still haven't settle on the filter yet, think I might get the ecco pro 300.
> 
> Just sent my 2nd hand 2L CO2 canister for refill at polyart clementi. will test out the solenoid when collected back 3 days later.


Good idea with DSM. Just remember to spray wet the plants at least twice a day and leave a bit of ventilation when using cling wrap.

Ecco pro should be fine if there are no stem plants.

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## ross.chang

> Ecco pro should be fine if there are no stem plants.


Why "If there are no stem plants"? Can elaborate a bit for a newbie? 




> Good idea with DSM. Just remember to spray wet the plants at least twice a day and leave a bit of ventilation when using cling wrap.


Ya, now spray/misting the tank before and after work, just did not cling wrap the tank, I believe our high humidity weather should do the trick? lets see.

Right now I've 2 piece on cling wrap covering portion of the wood with xmas moss tied on it, mosses need higher humidity I suppose, will see how it goes, worst case if mosses die/dried off, will re-tie more mosses before tank flood. still have time...

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## torque6

> Why "If there are no stem plants"? Can elaborate a bit for a newbie? 
> 
> 
> Ya, now spray/misting the tank before and after work, just did not cling wrap the tank, I believe our high humidity weather should do the trick? lets see.
> 
> Right now I've 2 piece on cling wrap covering portion of the wood with xmas moss tied on it, mosses need higher humidity I suppose, will see how it goes, worst case if mosses die/dried off, will re-tie more mosses before tank flood. still have time...


Heavily planted tank will require a stronger flow, stem plants when planted on a surface area of say 20x20cm compared to foreground plants = stem plants will have higher density (seeing they grow all the way to the top and branch out when trimmed), thus impending some % of flow. Foreground plants being low growing have less of that.

Cling wrap is useful to help create the green house effect though.

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## ross.chang

> Heavily planted tank will require a stronger flow, stem plants when planted on a surface area of say 20x20cm compared to foreground plants = stem plants will have higher density (seeing they grow all the way to the top and branch out when trimmed), thus impending some % of flow. Foreground plants being low growing have less of that.
> 
> Cling wrap is useful to help create the green house effect though.


So that means the Eheim ecco pro 300 is not enuf for a 90 x 45 x 45? assuming mid-heavy planted? eg: back with Rotala Ratundifoula and Rotala Bonsai...

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## torque6

> So that means the Eheim ecco pro 300 is not enuf for a 90 x 45 x 45? assuming mid-heavy planted? eg: back with Rotala Ratundifoula and Rotala Bonsai...


ecco 300 is rated at 750L/H without bio/ or mechanical media, course sponge, wool etc. After adding those, you are looking at maybe 1/2 that flow only. But do use it first, then monitor.

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## MarcosH

You're doing something that I've been thinking about doing for a couple of months now, Ross. Can't wait to see what your tank ends up looking like.

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## ross.chang

finally got my day 1 image on the img gallery... lol...

day 1 planted result

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## ross.chang

Day 2, nothing much special. the Stauroygen looks better than frreshly planted.



Hands got itchy, took out the driftwood and tied some pieces of xmas moss n fissiden to it...

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## ross.chang

Day3, HC shows little sign of growth, but are slightly taller


Stauroygen are also growing pretty good

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## ross.chang

Day6, hands got itchy again, went to lfs and got meself some new plants (1-2-Grow) Type

Cryptocoryne wendtii ‘Green'
Rotala ‘Bonsai'
Rotala rotundifolia 

had them all chop into pieces and ready to plant:






Due to back planting, I also made some adjustment by adding the rear height by adding more soil and some stone... and plug some plant from my current running pico tank

End of Day6:

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## ross.chang

Day 9:
Everything looks good, no sign of melting in any plants, thou had to keep spraying water on the moss attached.

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## tarzanboy

Hi may i know how much and where you purchase your tank please advise thank.

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## ross.chang

> Hi may i know how much and where you purchase your tank please advise thank.


Tank and LED from east ocean. Not exactly cheap. U can call them up to check the price.

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## ross.chang

Day 25. Added a few more plants: AR Red, Rotala Mac, Pogo. Helferi.

Growth looking good, except the Rotala Mac not showing much sign of Growth, planted it few days ago via 1-2-Grow pots. one of the Erio Quinquangulare not growing so well, while the other one have it's leaves turned green.

A few plants pulled from my first nano tank are starting to grow wildly.

Still looking for a Ludwigia Repens 'Rubin' for the back spot.

Now that most of them have rooted firmly and growing nicely, should I flood it? lol...

Side



Top

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## torque6

You can flood next week. Tank is good to go. Good luck. Great setup.

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## ross.chang

> You can flood next week. Tank is good to go. Good luck. Great setup.


 Get to think of it, dunno can flood next week or not, there are about five clumps of HC browning quite some big portion... what should I do now? Should I pull the brown out and continue dsm? Pull out and flood? Leave it there and continue dsm? Leave it there n flood?

the rotala MAC spotted one new leaf, but still looks like a clump of mess

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## torque6

When I did my DSM HC, it didn't brown, it just keep growing emersed. When I flood, it turned brown, melt a little and grew submersed leaves.

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## ross.chang

> When I did my DSM HC, it didn't brown, it just keep growing emersed. When I flood, it turned brown, melt a little and grew submersed leaves.


How long was your emerse?

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## torque6

About 5 weeks.

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## ross.chang

Pulled out some of the browned hc clumps, replanted some Hc and some monte carlo.

Notice some algae like white thread stuff on dead leaves, is that mold? seems to also effect some of my AR Mini.

Gonna flood it these few days.

Should I dose some Fungus treatment after flooding?

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## ross.chang

Finally decided, went ahead and flooded the tank. Plastic bucket back and forth the bathroom, should have went ahead and buy a 10meter hose and trunk from the bathroom tab instead. Was busy the whole night, slowly filling up water, setting up filter + lily pipes, setting CO2, bubble counter, diffuser placement bla bla bla... quite a fleet for a first timer.


Few interesting observation + note-to-self from a newbie:

1. During water flooding, a tiny 10 cent size cockroach climb out from underneath the driftwood (or the soil? dunno). I DSM with driftwood. pretty sure it wasn't there yesterday when I took the wood out to tie moss.

2. The soil is so light underwater~! need to be very careful when filling (lol... yes I know... very noob right?)

3. Accidentally touch a clump of newly planted HC (replacement to the old dying clump) and it floated~! Arg~! putting it back in place is so much of a pain. that leaves me to wonder, how do you plant HC/MC/HG carpeting plant if one does not DSM?

4. After everything is up and running for 2+ hours, notice most of the plants are pearling? is that possible? those include Rotala Rotundifolia, Rotala Mac, Rotala Bonsai. Air bubble appear on the tip of the stock, helping em to stand straight up in the water. Xmas and Fisident Moss tiny air bubble scatter around them, is that really pearling or just co2 bubble stuck there? Some of the better HC patches are also pearling. Even the Eriocaulon cinereum have bubble at its flower tip.

5. Now I am wondering how long should I let the CO2 running? now I have it set on a 8 hour timer align with the lights, but some article/posting suggested full blast it for the first few days? I think CO2 is around 4-5bps, too fast to get actual count T_T.

6. Don't spray too much during DSM, I got hand itchy and spray water every now and then, think that was the cause of the whitish spider web thread like mold, and I think that is killing off some of my plants.

Will post pic later tonight.

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## milk_vanilla

> Finally decided, went ahead and flooded the tank. Plastic bucket back and forth the bathroom, should have went ahead and buy a 10meter hose and trunk from the bathroom tab instead. Was busy the whole night, slowly filling up water, setting up filter + lily pipes, setting CO2, bubble counter, diffuser placement bla bla bla... quite a fleet for a first timer.
> 
> 
> Few interesting observation + note-to-self from a newbie:
> 
> 1. During water flooding, a tiny 10 cent size cockroach climb out from underneath the driftwood (or the soil? dunno). I DSM with driftwood. pretty sure it wasn't there yesterday when I took the wood out to tie moss.
> 
> 2. The soil is so light underwater~! need to be very careful when filling (lol... yes I know... very noob right?)
> 
> ...


3. Do 1-1 stalk, or few stalks, burry deeper into the soil.

4. It normal, due to difference co2 density between submerge and emerge 

5. 8 hours should be ok, 2 hours before the light come up ( most common practices).

You can use slow motion video from your mobile phone, and count it while playing back. if you feel too fast to count.

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## ross.chang

> 3. Do 1-1 stalk, or few stalks, burry deeper into the soil.
> 
> 4. It normal, due to difference co2 density between submerge and emerge 
> 
> 5. 8 hours should be ok, 2 hours before the light come up ( most common practices).
> 
> You can use slow motion video from your mobile phone, and count it while playing back. if you feel too fast to count.


Thanks ~! I'll keep that in mind  :Smile: 

Regarding the CO2 bps, how to know when you can achieve 30~30 ppm? use drop checker and wait for it to turn green?

or use the CO2 / ppm chat? but that one needs to measure kH, and many article said that aquasoil will alter the water chemistry, so result beh chun de... how arh? how arh?

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## ross.chang

this pic was last tuesday, decided the flood tank because seeing the mold?/fungus? slowly killing off the Hc/ Ar Mini / crypt. not sure of flooding will help but at least at dry status I have no idea what to do too...  :Sad: 

A day after flood, below are the readings:
NH3/NH4: 4ppm
NO2: 0.5ppm
NO3: 0~5ppm

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## ross.chang

5th day since flooding, the rotala at the back grew quite a bit, the bonsai is a bit slow in growth in comparison. The red Rotala Mac also show nice sign of growth, catching up pretty quick.

AR Mini still surviving, think the mold?/Fungus? had kill off some, now some still on the dead leaves. My Crypt Wenditi Green is totally devastated, all the leaves looks transparent now and there is layer of white thread all over them, same for some of my HC.

The weird part for my HC is, there are 5 clumps that survived and noticeably shredded old leaves and spawn new ones, spewing out too. Again, added more hc clumps hopping things will turn out better. Other plants at fore, show marginal or no growth at all. Mid Ground still kinda bare, any suggestion what should I put?

Reading as of 5th day of flooding are:
NH3/NH4: 4ppm (still?... anyway, is good to have ammonia right? at least we know the cycle process will start?... anyway I kiasu, dose API quick start.)
NO2: 0.25ppm ( reduced, good sign?)
NO3:0~5ppm ( this is bad right? I mean, having so many plants now, with this reading so low, will I need to nitrogen, to prevent Nitrogen deficiency?)

drift wood on the right still won't sink. HELP~..? or is this normal? today flipped it around the tank a bit, got some air bubble inside but yet still the same... 

still have no idea on the CO2 bps yet, have not buy drop checker yet... now just guestimate only. blast until see plant perl, good enuf... lol, anyone care to help out a newbie here? or should I get a drop checker?

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## milk_vanilla

For newly kicked in tank, To keep your ammonia at bay while waiting your bacteria cycled, more frequent 40-50% water change are advisable. At least 2x a week, 3-4 time better for 3-4weeks duration (depend how fast your tank cycled)

To test whether you have enough co2, either

1. get drop checker
2. Use ph pen digital meter, see how much the drop before co2 and after 3-4 hours co2 on. If the ph drop between 0.8 - 1. Should be good start, you can tune it later since you dont have fishes/fauna.
3. Monitor your plant growth. You have good light, and soil. So i trust you dont have nutrient deficiency within the next few months (except potassium and micros). If your plan suffer from new growth, and melting without any submerged plant come out, very likely caused by co2.

Hope it helps, cant wait to see the the next journal update

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## ross.chang

8th day since flooded, things hadn’t pick up much, did a 40% two days go and 60% WC today, suck up some dead leaves, the Cryptocroyne Wenditi Green had totally died off, new patches of HC also dying, not sure why.

Ph was around 6 ~6.4 earlier so today I scooped some soda bicarbonate into the water, tested with kit, parameters were:

Ph: 7.4 ~ 7.6
Ammonia: 1~2ppm
NO2: 0~0.25ppm
NO3: 0ppm

I’ve two drop checker with me now, one uses a solution that need water mix, (where could I get a 4dKh water?) and a ISTA dc that comes with solution that does not require mixing. put both in tank and waiting to see which turn color first... lol.

The Rotala Rotounfolia is growing too fast, almost 3/4 tank height now. the bonsai, I felt should have place it in mid instead of back, growth kinda slow. The rotala Mac? blossoming... ar mini still surviving, HC doing so so, others new leaves are spawning.

hopefully the adjusted pH will help the cycle... haiz...

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## ross.chang

> 1. get drop checker


Got it, dunno how to calibrate the solution mixture  :Sad: 

Ends up getting another one with pre-mixed solution...




> 2. Use ph pen digital meter, see how much the drop before co2 and after 3-4 hours co2 on. If the ph drop between 0.8 - 1. Should be good start, you can tune it later since you don’t have fishes/fauna.


Ordered from Qoo10, waiting delivery.

what does pH drop between 0.8~1 signifies?

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## torque6

Some drift wood wouldn't sink even after boiling + soaking them. Just make sure when you buy them in LFS, that they aren't too light. Some driftwood have hollow interior and do trap air to an extend. I threw away several driftwood late last year because they refuse to sink after 9 months in the tank. I tied rocks to them initially but found them to be a hassle once the fishing line loosens and all of them started to hang in the mid of the tank.

Crypt wenditi are prone to melting but do give them some time as they do grow back if the roots are intact. Rotala adapts the fastest, but may lose most of the lower leaves in 2-3 months time if there is insufficient light. Just adjust your twinstar so that it's a good spread. Twinstar adaptor should run hot, you using any fans to cool it?

There probably wouldn't be too noticeable growth in 8 days, give it like 5-8 weeks for the plants to adapt and fill in. The recommendation for doing 2x weekly water change is to keep ammonia low as ADA AS tend to leech ammonia which can cause algae. Doing water changes doesn't improve cycling. If you had started DSM, you already have cycled your tank and there will be bacteria in the soil. You just need to let the bacteria grow in your bio media now.

For 4DKH solution, you can DIY (youtube) and you do not need to mix tank water. Just have a KH test kit to test for accuracy. (API -> 4 drops to turn yellow from blue).

Just to add, most people who use ADA AS do not add sodium bicarbonate to their tank to regulate PH, they just leave it as that. Sodium bicarbonate is just too unreliable to be use as a PH buffer.

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## ross.chang

> Crypt wenditi are prone to melting but do give them some time as they do grow back if the roots are intact. Rotala adapts the fastest, but may lose most of the lower leaves in 2-3 months time if there is insufficient light. Just adjust your twinstar so that it's a good spread. Twinstar adaptor should run hot, you using any fans to cool it?


So the crypt will grow back? cool. now my staurogyne repens also starting to melt, very very slowly thou

The Twinstar powerbrick? yes its hot. the top side of the LED is also hot, not using any fans. it does worries me somehow.




> There probably wouldn't be too noticeable growth in 8 days, give it like 5-8 weeks for the plants to adapt and fill in. The recommendation for doing 2x weekly water change is to keep ammonia low as ADA AS tend to leech ammonia which can cause algae. Doing water changes doesn't improve cycling. If you had started DSM, you already have cycled your tank and there will be bacteria in the soil. You just need to let the bacteria grow in your bio media now.


How long did your tank takes to cycle after DSM?




> For 4DKH solution, you can DIY (youtube) and you do not need to mix tank water. Just have a KH test kit to test for accuracy. (API -> 4 drops to turn yellow from blue).


Argsh... u mean getting distill water and incrementally mix baking soda? and also, kH test is kinda finicky 






> Just to add, most people who use ADA AS do not add sodium bicarbonate to their tank to regulate PH, they just leave it as that. Sodium bicarbonate is just too unreliable to be use as a PH buffer.


I did it because, there are article stating that BB either do not cultivate, or grow very slow at low pH.

With Co2, the pH test shows Yellow, the lowest value, thus also not sure how lower it is.

But you are right about baking soda, so now I'm thinking crush corals, how much should I add? lol...

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## torque6

Twinstar dimmers for both the E + S series are out in UK, it looks like the chihiros dimmer but it has 10 step instead of 7. 10% increments to 100% full. It should lower the heat output if you are able to get it. Lawrence from EOA did say they won't be bringing it in.

I did DSM HC for my 1 feet tank. Nitrite test kit showed blue in under 3 weeks after flooding and there were no more diatom algae. For my 3 feet, it's the same for nitrite, but diatom algae only stopped growing after 6 months mark, citing fully cycled.

DIY 4DKH is easy. 2.5 milligrams ( I think ) to 2 litres of distilled water. Mix it. Then take out 50 ml of this water and add to 450 ml of new distilled water. Then use API KH kit to test if accurate at 4DKH.

I probably won't worry about BB cultivating at this point. Just to ensure your plants grow. You should start seeing first hint of algae the week after the next if plants continue to melt though.

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## ross.chang

Did a couple of partial WC these few days. Hung a bag of coral chips in tank to see how pH react.

Nitrite is showing 2ppm yesterday (blue with slight purple tint?... very difficult to tell)

Will wait 1-2 more days to do a full test.

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## ross.chang

An update with picture taken from yesterday.

HC: some still dying/dead. other patches are growing and expanding. no new growth of the white threaded moddy stuff on the HC but mostly still there

Rotala Rotundfolia on the left, grows almost 1cm each day, bloody fast. Had to side/front trim it before it over shade its neighbour. still wondering if I should do top trimming at this point as I want to maintain minimal side shoot at this point...

Rotala Bonsai beside it: slowly growing, should have place it in mid tank instead of back

Between the Bonsai and the Rotala Mac, is the Bacopa Caroliniana (just found out the name of the plant) at the bottom and the long tall shoot is Helanthium Vesuvius with it's beautiful twisting leaf. both fast grower, kept triming the Caroliniana as it kept shooting sideways.

The red Rotala Mac at the back, is growing prettier daily. fast growth, but not as fast as the Rotundfolia, really excited when see pinkish leaves spawn at the top

On the far right, is the community of Hygrophila Pinnatifida and a Echinodorus cordifolius Tropical Marble Queen. The marble queen's leave all died off during dsm, guess it need moisture and the lights were too strong, cut off the dead stuff and now new leaf spawning. Pinnatifida, had it since dsm from tissue cultured, slow grow. submersed leaves growing in brownish color instead of green during emersed. 

Staurogyne Repens are slowly dying from the lushly growth it had during dsm, shreading to make way for submersed leaf? dunno, my daily siphon include sucking up dead leaf from these patches as well...

Eriocaulon Quinquangulare is growing pretty good, red color only show under water.

The AR Mini, stop dying *yay* and new leaf started to show, thou the unknown white stuff does take away quite a bit of the lushly red bunch it had developed during dsm... sian..

Marimo moss ball hate lights... mine turning brown under strong light.. lol, waiting for the bunch to outgrow and shade it...

still have some different type of Crypt here and there, the bunch of Crypt wenditi green from tissue cultured grown during DSM had all died off, but on the bright side, new leaf are showing from the remains. good sigh.

Added Coral chip in bag to bring up pH, now around 7ish. is that too much? dunno how to gauge how much to add, waiting for pH to stabalized, then will stash the coral in the filter.

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## milk_vanilla

If you dont see any positive submerged shoots growth after 2-3 weeks, i suspect your co2 not good enough (either quantity or distribution). Your light is considered high light, you should pump more co2, with more finer bubbles and good distribution. 

I never use coral chips for ph manipulation reason, frequent WC during start up is good enough, our tap water ph is 7+, good enough to rejuvenate your low ph concern. Plus you help your bacteria to remove the organics and other toxin (ammonia, nitrite, etc) since they are not mature enough.

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## ross.chang

> If you don’t see any positive submerged shoots growth after 2-3 weeks, i suspect your co2 not good enough (either quantity or distribution). Your light is considered high light, you should pump more co2, with more finer bubbles and good distribution. 
> 
> I never use coral chips for ph manipulation reason, frequent WC during start up is good enough, our tap water ph is 7+, good enough to rejuvenate your low ph concern. Plus you help your bacteria to remove the organics and other toxin (ammonia, nitrite, etc) since they are not mature enough.


Well most of the growth are superbly positive with exception of different patches of HC. The dead crypts are spawing new leaf which is good. Stauryogen Repen leaf melting, leaving the green sterm with some slow spawn of baby leaf at the tip... oh a recent addition to the melting list: Eriocaulon quinquangulare... sigh, dunno what’s wrong, probably the gH I read? gonna get a gH checker over the weekend to find out.

CO2 is lowered to 1~2bps now, plants are still bubbling like crazy at this point. Wondering when should I trim the Rotala Rotoundfolia and how much should I trip? scare I trip too often the whole bunch will become bushier as 1 sterm become two. Thinking of getting a Lugwig. Red Repens. where can I find it? should I wait till my tank is fully cycle before getting more plants?

quick check today:
pH: 6.8
Nitrite: 2~5ppm (can’t really tell, color too close)
Nitrate: 5ppm

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## ross.chang

> If you dont see any positive submerged shoots growth after 2-3 weeks, i suspect your co2 not good enough (either quantity or distribution). Your light is considered high light, you should pump more co2, with more finer bubbles and good distribution. 
> 
> I never use coral chips for ph manipulation reason, frequent WC during start up is good enough, our tap water ph is 7+, good enough to rejuvenate your low ph concern. Plus you help your bacteria to remove the organics and other toxin (ammonia, nitrite, etc) since they are not mature enough.


Well most of the growth are superbly positive with exception of different patches of HC. The dead crypts are spawing new leaf which is good. Stauryogen Repen leaf melting, leaving the green sterm with some slow spawn of baby leaf at the tip... oh a recent addition to the melting list: Eriocaulon quinquangulare... sigh, dunno whats wrong, probably the gH I read? gonna get a gH checker over the weekend to find out.

CO2 is lowered to 1~2bps now, plants are still bubbling like crazy at this point. Wondering when should I trim the Rotala Rotoundfolia and how much should I trip? scare I trip too often the whole bunch will become bushier as 1 sterm become two. Thinking of getting a Lugwig. Red Repens. where can I find it? should I wait till my tank is fully cycle before getting more plants?

quick check today:
pH: 6.8
Nitrite: 2~5ppm (cant really tell, color too close)
Nitrate: 5ppm

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## ross.chang

20th day since DSM flooding. Everything looks good, however HC still not growing very fast... this is a DSM failure *sigh*

Rearranged some Rotala Bonsai to the frontal left, got some new plants: Crypt Parva, Limnophila Hippuridoides, Hygrophila Polysperma 'Sunset' and Pogostemon Erectus. Hopefully they don't grow too fast.

Eriocaulon quinquangulare melted further. *sigh* really like this plant...

My Eriocaulon cinereum kept growing stocks of flower buds and not spawing new pointy leaf, what's happening?

Now in dilemma: should I trim the Rotala Rataudfolia and Mac? some of the stork have touch the water surface. Or should I leave it until the Fishless Cycle is completed, and do a one off trim before adding livestock?...

Last two days parameters had been the same atpH 6.8, NH3 0, NO2 2~5ppm, NO3 5ppm, is the numbers normal? considering that it has been the same for the past few days (there are two partial water change in between)

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## torque6

For rotalas, trim the top and replant. The lower leaves should be emmerse form, you can remove them. Tank already gone through DSM and has been flooded for 20 days, but nitrite still shows exceedingly high >2ppm?? Nitrate = 0 isn't good long term as well.


What filter media are you using? Eheim substrate pro? Biohome? MR AQUA CR? Seachem Matrix?

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## ross.chang

> For rotalas, trim the top and replant. The lower leaves should be emmerse form, you can remove them. Tank already gone through DSM and has been flooded for 20 days, but nitrite still shows exceedingly high >2ppm?? Nitrate = 0 isn't good long term as well.
> 
> 
> What filter media are you using? Eheim substrate pro? Biohome? MR AQUA CR? Seachem Matrix?


I've planted to densely (and diverse, typical rojak) there isn't any space for replant liao :'(

Will do another P. WC later today after work.

As for the media, I've got a white color media that looks like Mr Aqua's shape from LFS, some Seachem matrix lookalike stuff (Matrix was not available then), and a bag of Eheim substrate. Dosing Seachem Stability after each P. WC.

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## ross.chang

Test result for the past two days:
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: >5ppm (color getting darker today, by slight)

looking good now, mebbe this weekend can add commando crew liao.

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## torque6

Water parameters look stable.

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## ross.chang

Just when I tot things are looking good, starting to see scatter spot of algae everywhere...  :Sad:  some on substrate, some on plant leaves, rock, driftwood.

Will try to get some pictures later. Any idea in general how can I clear them? heavy excel dose? Up CO2? reduce light period? kept CO2 running 24/7?

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## ross.chang

> Just when I tot things are looking good, starting to see scatter spot of algae everywhere...  some on substrate, some on plant leaves, rock, driftwood.
> 
> Will try to get some pictures later. Any idea in general how can I clear them? heavy excel dose? Up CO2? reduce light period? kept CO2 running 24/7?


Went ahead with 50%WC, siphon out algae as much as I could, those on the leafs/rock/wood were slightly easier, got a patch on the substrate that is more stubborn to be remove so I just stir the substrate a bit. I also notice a thin layer of green on the glass when view from sideways, will need to get something to scrap them off. 

Before WC, parameters were also stable at:
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: >5ppm (nearer to 10ppm? darn color chat, can barely tell...)

Gotta stock algae crew over the weekend.

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## torque6

> Went ahead with 50%WC, siphon out algae as much as I could, those on the leafs/rock/wood were slightly easier, got a patch on the substrate that is more stubborn to be remove so I just stir the substrate a bit. I also notice a thin layer of green on the glass when view from sideways, will need to get something to scrap them off. 
> 
> Before WC, parameters were also stable at:
> NH3: 0
> NO2: 0
> NO3: >5ppm (nearer to 10ppm? darn color chat, can barely tell...)
> 
> Gotta stock algae crew over the weekend.


My last post on hint of algae was on 11 Apr, so it's about the right time, taking into consideration the high PAR of the S series. I personally don't use excel nor algae crew to help with my algae, so I can't advise much on that. I usually fixed things as they come, etc siphon algae, wiping glass, cleaning filter, pipes, lowering lights, adjusting co2 + adjusting dosing. The good thing is recovery for 3 feet tanks (48G>) is pretty good, once you fix inbalance, you will see noticeable results in 2-3 weeks.

When you mean algae stubborn on substrate means what? stuck on the soil? Layer of green algae on glass is easy fix. Just wipe with filter wool (I cut them to small pieces). They will grow back within the week, but just wipe again and do WC.

You can delay adding live stock till a later date, so you can go the chemical war fare route if you choose without losing any casualties.

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## ross.chang

> ... so you can go the chemical war fare route if you choose without losing any casualties.


What's the chemical warfare route?... :P

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## torque6

> What's the chemical warfare route?... :P


Algacide, hydrogen Peroxide, heavy dose of excel etc.

I wouldn't encourage or advise against using them, but personally I don't because I feel I am not learning anything, if I keep using band-aid whenever there is algae problem.

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## ross.chang

Flooded after DSM Day 27, test result were all good. Decided I'll go ahead to algae crew, thus this weekend, added 9x Amano, 10 Fire Shrimp, 10 CRS, 5 Otto, 6 Nitrite Snail.

I am guessing that most of the algae growth is due to insufficient flow, thus, added a small powerhead today to aid with the waterflow. The ecco pro 300 flow is really not sufficient to sustain a heavily planted tank. Should I upgrade my filter? Looking at the EHEIM professionel 4e+ 350 ( https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products...rofessionel-4e ) with a max of 1500L per hr adjustable. any more recommendation? I do have a height limit, trying to keep below 40cm up to max of 55cm including hose clearance and maintenance consideration.


The background plant weren't even moving with the filter flow alone, now with new mini powerhead, can see wavily movement. The one thing that worries me about this powerhead is, what if a shrimp swim too close and got suck in? Guess long term plan is to upgrade the filter... *sigh*...

Shrimp and Otto were very busy since yesterday, and the netrite snail are no where to be seen now. Will run for another week, and add some more fish next week. Probably rummynose platinum, or Harlequin Rasbora? Will see what else is available. maybe even a Kuhli Loach or two...




Test Result:
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: ~>20ppm? (redder than before)




The amazing things about Amano and the algae crew:

Before:


After:



Stubborn algae on the soil, what algae is this? this stuff holds the soil together...

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## ross.chang

An observation: 

Fire Shrimp are a bit gong gong de... hands went to near them when trimming they didn't even move at all... with Amano and CRS, those guys just scramble...

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## torque6

Just monitor flow. No need to spend money first. I am using a eheim 2215 for my 3 feet and it's rated at a lower flow than yours. I do run a 200L/H skimmer and a 400/L powerhead though to help with flow. I used a nano wave maker previously 900L/H but find the shrimps hiding most of the time, not sure if flow is too strong. Sponge filter or sponge with powerhead is safer though. But wave maker flow is more gentle.

The algae on soil looks like a mix of BGA + fuzz algae.

By the way, your pictures all have this strong magenta tint as oppose to those on Twinstar promo facebook. It is what the light looks like in real life without any photoshop?

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## ross.chang

> Just monitor flow. No need to spend money first. I am using a eheim 2215 for my 3 feet and it's rated at a lower flow than yours. I do run a 200L/H skimmer and a 400/L powerhead though to help with flow. I used a nano wave maker previously 900L/H but find the shrimps hiding most of the time, not sure if flow is too strong. Sponge filter or sponge with powerhead is safer though. But wave maker flow is more gentle.


Hmm... will stick with the powerhead for a while then, not sure what's the rating for the powerhead but it's the smallest I can find from polyart, seems to fit in quite ok, flow increase nicely, shrimp are still everywhere, plants are weaving 




> The algae on soil looks like a mix of BGA + fuzz algae.


Will the Algae crew take care of it?




> By the way, your pictures all have this strong magenta tint as oppose to those on Twinstar promo facebook. It is what the light looks like in real life without any photoshop?


The magenta is more prevailing on photos, in real life it's not so bad, thou, maybe a slight tint of Magenta.

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## torque6

Fuzz algae, should be fine. Not so for BGA.

As for the magenta tint, I previously suspected Twinstar heavily photoshop their promo pics to correct the tint. Looks like it's true.

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## tetrakid

> What's the chemical warfare route?... :P


I avoid using chemicals, as chemical reactions are complex, and outcomes can be unpredictable. My best method of keeping fish is to supply them with good clean water. I obtain my good clean water by ageing tap water for days in containers.

By means of regular water change, I avoid excessive toxicity to my fish. The trick to a clear and healthy tank is to maintain a well-balanced state of the water at all times. I suck up fish poo daily with a simple DIY siphoning tool made of air tubing attached to a 1.5ft stiff plastic tubing. 

I also scrape clean the inner glass surfaces weekly to maintain a sparkling clear view.

This I have done for many years (with the same fishes in the tank). Longevity of fish is a pleasure.

________________________________________________________________________________________________
Life Is Unthinkable Without A Fish Tank.

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## ross.chang

Went to QuanHu last weekend (5/5), got a bunch of fish. might wanna add more this weekend see how.

In tank since last weekend:
13x Rummynose Platinum tetra
5x Kuhli Loches (barely see them since release into tank. 1 or 2 will come out from the dense bushes once in a blue moon)

Planning this weekend:
10 ~ 15 cardinal tetra OR harlequin rasbora
5x Panda Cory

Wondering:
1x Dwarf Puffler (read that they are fierce, might attack fish, but if in scenario where 1x vs a whole bunch?) 
or
2x Dwarf Gourami ( 1m, 1f) 

Any comments on the match?

Lily pipes & tubes getting algae all over... haiz, need to buy that bendable brush to clean it over the weekend. how often do you clean your lily pipes? do they turn green very often?

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## ross.chang

Update: This stubborn algae on soil is gone after adding a small pump to help with the water flow.

With Algae crew running full time, tank is pretty clear now.




> Stubborn algae on the soil, what algae is this? this stuff holds the soil together...

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## ross.chang

> I avoid using chemicals, as chemical reactions are complex, and outcomes can be unpredictable. My best method of keeping fish is to supply them with good clean water. I obtain my good clean water by ageing tap water for days in containers.
> 
> By means of regular water change, I avoid excessive toxicity to my fish. The trick to a clear and healthy tank is to maintain a well-balanced state of the water at all times. I suck up fish poo daily with a simple DIY siphoning tool made of air tubing attached to a 1.5ft stiff plastic tubing. 
> 
> I also scrape clean the inner glass surfaces weekly to maintain a sparkling clear view.
> 
> This I have done for many years (with the same fishes in the tank). Longevity of fish is a pleasure.
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Life Is Unthinkable Without A Fish Tank.


Fully agree, not familiar with the chemical route, not sure about the outcome too, thus went with Algae crew and water change (*heavy excel dose before that).

What do you use to scrape the inner glass? those scraper with blade? or just regular sponge attached? The Algae film on my tank's inner glass are gone thanks to the Oto, but now I notice some scatter green spotted dot which the Oto didn't bother touching.

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## torque6

> Fully agree, not familiar with the chemical route, not sure about the outcome too, thus went with Algae crew and water change (*heavy excel dose before that).
> 
> What do you use to scrape the inner glass? those scraper with blade? or just regular sponge attached? The Algae film on my tank's inner glass are gone thanks to the Oto, but now I notice some scatter green spotted dot which the Oto didn't bother touching.


Fine filter wool (white) will be able to clean green spot algae, no need to use scraper with blade (or you risk scratching your glass).

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## bryenyeoh3

> Went to QuanHu last weekend (5/5), got a bunch of fish. might wanna add more this weekend see how.
> 
> In tank since last weekend:
> 13x Rummynose Platinum tetra
> 5x Kuhli Loches (barely see them since release into tank. 1 or 2 will come out from the dense bushes once in a blue moon)
> 
> Planning this weekend:
> 10 ~ 15 cardinal tetra OR harlequin rasbora
> 5x Panda Cory
> ...


I have a dwarf puffer which is currently in a tank with cardinal tetras and antlers. Up till now I have not seen him Attack the other fishes so I shld say that it is very subjective since some dwarf puffers would Attack the other tank mates while some wouldnt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## tetrakid

> I have a dwarf puffer which is currently in a tank with cardinal tetras and antlers. Up till now I have not seen him Attack the other fishes so I shld say that it is very subjective since some dwarf puffers would Attack the other tank mates while some wouldnt.


I used to have a couple of dwarf puffers in my tank of Guoramis. These unassuming little puffer creatures look harmless and even adorable, but not when they are very hungry (no more snails to eat). My tiny puffers managed to nip off all the fins and tails of my big guoramis.

I suppose they are unable to attack fast swimming fish.

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## ross.chang

> I used to have a couple of dwarf puffers in my tank of Guoramis. These unassuming little puffer creatures look harmless and even adorable, but not when they are very hungry (no more snails to eat). My tiny puffers managed to nip off all the fins and tails of my big guoramis.
> 
> I suppose they are unable to attack fast swimming fish.


So how many dwarf puffer vs how many drawf guoramis?

They eat snails? will they nom nom my nitrite snails?

Interesting little buggers ain't they...

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## ross.chang

Another trip down to Qian Hu, kids just love it there...

got some:
15x cardinal tetra 
5x Panda Cory

Will think about the D. Gourami OR D. Puffers for a bit first before adding them... 

First time major cleaning this weekend,
50% W.C., Filter wool wash, soak bio filter in fresh waters, clean the lily pipes and hoses, wipe glasses etc...

Didn't had problem with lily pipes removal as per mentioned in many other threads, I guess this is because I'm using the ISTA grey hoses. they are more flex and softer as compare to stock eheim greens, and removing the lily pipes are as easy as a few nudge in and out, see air space between pipe and hose, start to pull.

Was being told an easy way to clean the hose, from a friend: stuff wet tissue into pipes on one end, plug that end into tap, on tap, see tissue got flush thru the pipe cleaning everything within... voila... not satisfied? repeat. 

Dunno if it's me, felt the water is clearer that before today, even before W.C. did anyone experience situation like that before?

Question: had 3 mysterious Oto death last few days, and their bodies are always beneath the wave maker head. Bodies all turn white when discovered, and the shrimp are munching it away. Anyone had experience with wavemaker heads and Oto can share some insight? I do notice some of them went adventurous and start to clean the wavemaker head some times.

My kids are ever excited when they see a loach come out in the open: "Daddy~! the snakey is out~!"... lol

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## tetrakid

> So how many dwarf puffer vs how many drawf guoramis?
> 
> They eat snails? will they nom nom my nitrite snails?
> 
> Interesting little buggers ain't they...


I had a tank full of about 8 Guoramis (l love blue guoramis as their colours really shine at night under flourecsent effect).

You see, those 2 tiny puffers fish ate off all their fins because I didn't have any snails to feed them. I never want to keep puffer fish ever again!
The blue guoramis fell victim to them because they are graceful and slow swimmers like Bettas, unlike agile fish like tetras, Barb's, etc.

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## ross.chang

> I had a tank full of about 8 Guoramis (l love blue guoramis as their colours really shine at night under flourecsent effect).
> 
> You see, those 2 tiny puffers fish ate off all their fins because I didn't have any snails to feed them. I never want to keep puffer fish ever again!
> The blue guoramis fell victim to them because they are graceful and slow swimmers like Bettas, unlike agile fish like tetras, Barb's, etc.


D. Puffer sounds fierce. Will hold back on that, more favorable towards D. Guoramis now. Lets see how after 1 month.

Now that the tank is stocked, started feeding them with tiny pallets. What else should I feed them?

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## tetrakid

> D. Puffer sounds fierce. Will hold back on that, more favorable towards D. Guoramis now. Lets see how after 1 month.


I bought the two young puffers because they looked so cute and adorable... didn't know they eat snails ... of all things! 😂

My first experience with puffers is when I caught one about 7inches long at the OLDE Clifford Pier... when I brought it up onto the floor, it blew up into a football size, LOL 😁

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## torque6

Stem plants taking off. Your foreground plants seems slow growth for some reason.

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