# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  Back into Apistos.. with a slight problem

## stormhawk

Hey guys, I just purchased what I think is a true pair of _Apistogramma cacatuoides_ Triple Red from C328.



Best shot I got, since he keeps hiding and very seldom stays in one spot for long.



Close-up of the bugger hiding amongst my Vallisneria.

However I'm unsure if the "female" is a real female, or just another random sleeper/subdominant juvenile male. Have a look and let me know your opinions. 


Outside her home.


Best shot I got so far, since she isn't cooperating very well.

Don't wish to clog up the sticky on sexing cacas so might as well post a new thread. By the way, the female's first 3 dorsal rays are lacking the extensions or lappets if you wish. She has a slightly truncate tail, with the upper tip gone. Probably got chomped sometime back. Has no extensions to the dorsal or anal fins. Her pelvic fins have that powder blue colour when she's not stressed, but back at the store they had black edges.

I tried feeding them with NLS pellets, but they ignored those. Guess it's time to get some frozen BW, maybe frozen Daphnia, and get me a BBS hatchery going.

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## mobile2007

Nice catch from c328.  :Smile: 

Can be difficult to sex those more domesticated species. So, why not just keep/observe them for sometimes. Also, the weather is pretty good, lots of rain. Breeding can occurs anytimes.

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## stormhawk

Thanks for the compliments. I saw the male in the display tank and started drooling. I've not seen a Triple Red male with that much red and a decent pattern in the caudal fin, in a long time. The female was in a bag by itself, labelled caca Triple Red F. By the way, in one of the tanks nearer to the fish food section, there's some random Apistos. Probably old breeders or excess fish from their supplier.

Yeah been raining cats and dogs. But they're not interested in the NLS pellets. I don't really want to use tubifex for them. I'll probably go get some Daphnia tomorrow, since my Boraras go berserk whenever there's Daphnia. 

So far the male shadows the female, but does nothing much. I need to get her plump.

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## mobile2007

You can try hikari frozen bloodworm. Most apisto can't resist that. Pellets wise, you have to train them, starve them a few days, they will then accept it.

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## stormhawk

Well I'm hoping they'll catch on since my Boraras take the NLS pellets. Though for the Boraras, the current .5 size isn't small enough. I'll probably have to crush them into powder form next time.

Paying a visit to Biotope tomorrow, since C328 is closed on Sundays. I went off too quickly just now before getting all the stuff I needed. Guess the pair got me excited.  :Grin:

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## doppelbanddwarf

The colours on the male looks great. To me the female looks like it could be a male but I could be wrong. They should take to NLS pellets in 1 or 2 days. Also while you are at Biotope do look out for their cacatuoides. They had quite a few pairs of very nice ones a few weeks ago but could be gone by now.

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## genes

High chance its a female looking at the fins.

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## riltz

absense of black ventral for the female, or maybe it cant be seen from the picture, but for caca black ventral fins can be used to determine sex.

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## stormhawk

The black ventral marking was showing when I first got it. Went off once I put it into the 4 foot tank with the male. I just visited Biotope today and picked up an Orange Flash female. The male instantly took a liking to her. Oddly enough, the female Triple Red kept flaring at the new female Orange Flash.

They are chewing on the NLS pellets right now, but they're not swallowing them. Instead they just pick them up then spit them right out. I think I'll just get some live bloodworm or frozen ones tomorrow.

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## Jitticus

I'm not sure where 328 gets their apisto stock from and I've bought a few times from them. In many instances, I could see the "females" were highly potential sneaker males. It can be very frustrating for those who are just starting out in the hobby.
I doubt the bosses know much about sexing of apistos, so I can only say its probably the supplier who's doing this misidentification. 
Your female is also looking like a possible sneaker...

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## mobile2007

stormhawk, the chew and spit are typical behaviour of apisto. Give them sometimes.

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## exotic_idiot

> 


Nice catch, bro stormhawk...
Quite hard to sex caca... Unless the female shows some yellow colourations...
Let's wait till your female stable first can get a more clear confirmation.
Maybe you consider feeding live brine shrimps too, let them chase for their foods..
Yeah..! :Wink: 

BTW, very nice killifish you have on your avatar...! :Smile:

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## doppelbanddwarf

Live bloodworms might not be such a good idea. Try adult brineshrimp or bbs instead. Apistos are highly susceptible to internal bacteria from eating bloodworms and tubifex.

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## Jitticus

> The black ventral marking was showing when I first got it. Went off once I put it into the 4 foot tank with the male. I just visited Biotope today and picked up an Orange Flash female. The male instantly took a liking to her. Oddly enough, the female Triple Red kept flaring at the new female Orange Flash.
> 
> They are chewing on the NLS pellets right now, but they're not swallowing them. Instead they just pick them up then spit them right out. I think I'll just get some live bloodworm or frozen ones tomorrow.



Have you tried their small fish formula? I notice that using the small fish formula seems to have solved the spitting problem.

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## stormhawk

Thanks for the comments guys.

@exotic_idiot:

Yup that's a nice killifish, too bad I stopped keeping that species a long time ago. I was very lucky to spot this beautiful Triple Red male. They had 4 Triple Red males, and I took the one the uncle put in the display tank.  :Grin: 

The 1st female I got with it is stable now, but I am beginning to think it is a sneaker male. Anyway, I managed to get an Orange Flash female from Biotope over the weekend. Now that one I am 100&#37; certain it is female.

I got another "female" from C328 today as well. Was in a tank with other random fish and some caca and aga. Probably leftover stock.

I figure with 3 possible females, I should be lucky enough to have at least one female.

@Jitticus:

The NLS pellet I'm using is the Spectrum Grow. My _Boraras urophthalmoides_ love those and they grew much bigger. The apistos seem to ignore them for now. I bought a pack of frozen BW, Daphnia and brine shrimp. My Corys love the bloodworms too, if not the snails and Cherry Shrimp can have a fresh snack.

I went to C328 today and picked up this pair of Aga along with the random caca. 







Female was from the display tank with a huge red tailed aga male. I have no idea what strain, but when I first picked up my Triple Red pair, that female laid eggs on the divider wall, so when I saw it today, I just had to buy it. The male is from the random tank. Has a yellowish tail with whitish spot pattern and a black edge. What strain could it be?

The female agassizii is very aggressive. She managed to out-muscle the Triple Red caca male. She only backs down when she sees the agassizii male. I saw them doing the threat posturing and they actually did the lip-locking thing. Was an awesome sight.  :Smile:

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## SCOPE

Good sharing! Hope to hear your breeding soon

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## soltari007

hey bro, your aga looks like the Alenquer strain, looks good!

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## stormhawk

Hope so. The male aga is very listless so it's in a hospital tank by itself now. The outlook doesn't seem good. I should have not taken the one in the random tank. It's probably sick. Doesn't eat anything, not even frozen bloodworm.  :Sad: 

The female as usual is being aggressive. She's taken over 2 coconut husks near the stand of Vallisneria, and keeps control over that area.

I took some new pictures of the 2 extra female cacatuoides.


Orange Flash female

I'm 100% certain this one is a female



Not 100% certain on this one. It's like a wild-type caca.

Better picture of the male:



And finally, caught the male displaying to the "wild" female:



Sorry for the blur image. The male tends to do his dance when I least expect it.  :Opps:

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## stormhawk

A better picture of the "wild-type" female:



Is the ID correct? I thought it was a female of some other caca-type species.

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## genes

Its a caca. And most probably came from a pool of inbred red variant genes hence its showing washed out colors. 

The orange flash is in her breeding mood already. Give her a cave and they should be breeding soon... :Smile:

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## stormhawk

I only have 2 coconut husk hideaways. I think I should get a few more. The female aga is hogging both husks and she doesn't let any other apisto get near. Even the snails get shoo-ed away. 

As for the agassizii, I think I need a new male. The current one just conked out in the hospital tank. I know the female is in breeding mode, she turns bright yellow and shows the black mid body spot once she's in the hideaway.  :Knockout:

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## iwishweallcouldwin

Welcome back to apistos :Smile:

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## mobile2007

haha, very interesting reading this.  :Laughing: 




> ..... Even the snails get shoo-ed away.....

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## stormhawk

She doesn't like anything near her coconut. Her boyfriend just went into the big fish heaven in the sky, so I'll be looking for another male agassizii to join her.

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## exotic_idiot

> She doesn't like anything near her coconut. Her boyfriend just went into the big fish heaven in the sky, so I'll be looking for another male agassizii to join her.


Try getting caves? Those clay caves... Very good :Well done: 

"Your avatar" What a waste... Should continue that species... :Sad:

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## stormhawk

I can get eggs again to get the killie started, but lack of space means I cannot keep killies for now. They are delicate at times. I'll get a few more caves just for the apistos soon.

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## A.Rashid

hahaha Stormhawk... you have appear again.... and into Apistos....

myself also getting back to apisto but still havent the rite pertensis group of apistos yet...still lookin

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## stormhawk

Well when the time comes one has to go back to what he likes best, in my case, fishes.  :Laughing: 

A new addition:



My new wilhelmi pair hiding in the cave. Male just behind the female.



The male peeking out. Compare his head to the opening of the cave. He's huge. I wasn't expecting such a large male.



Pair under a moss arch. The male was displaying for a little while.



Their current home.

The male is very shy, once he sees the camera he scoots off. Big thanks to wychay for the pair.  :Wink:

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## doppelbanddwarf

Congrats on acquiring a breeding pair! The purple chin looks superb.

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## SCOPE

nice Wilhelmi pair! Great purple chin

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## mobile2007

Another bro got poisoned very badly.  :Grin:  Very good catch from wychay. This one got good color on its tail finnage.

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## stormhawk

Thanks guys. They are fairly picky feeders for now. Female more out-going of the two. Maybe I need some dithers.

I took this picture as well when I was at wychay's home:



_Apistogramma baenschi_ fry. There's at least 2 batches in that tank and they're all growing fast.

He takes great care of his fish. You guys should see his elizabethae and diplotaenia.  :Well done:

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## iwishweallcouldwin

Cute wilhelmi pair!

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## wychay

Thanks for the comments. I try my best to make the fishes comfortable  :Smile: 
Nice talking to you Stormhawk. Wish I got more time to chat - maybe the next time.

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## stormhawk

Nice talking to you as well wychay. Got bored, and finally got this shot of the male:



Pardon the specks, I didn't clean the tank glass beforehand.  :Laughing:

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## doppelbanddwarf

Really superb specimen. The purple seems to be on the back and forehead too, not only the chin.

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## genes

Best looking wilhelmi i have seen so far!

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## stormhawk

Slight update on the wilhelmi. This morning I saw the female turning bright yellow and chasing the male away from her hiding cave. She gets aggressive and a few tail slaps towards the male usually turns him away. She never leaves her cave for long, only short breaks to feed then she rushes back. She doesn't really hurt him so I'll leave him in there, especially since I saw him guarding his older fry while I was at wychay's place.

Is this a sign that they might have spawned? Last night the male was twitching, shaking his head and displaying to the female. Right now he's not doing anything, just patrolling the tank and eating when he feels like it.

I realised the wilhelmi is not a greedy feeder, like the caca and aga, but rather a more slower feeder. They take their time and enjoy their meal.  :Laughing:

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## doppelbanddwarf

I think thats the sign that they have spawned. Congrats. I've a batch of fry with my wilhelmi pair too right now. I left the male in there as the female seemed to be able to keep him at bay. He isn't too interested in the fry either, much more interested in getting to the food.

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## stormhawk

I hope they spawned too.  :Grin:  

Last night I did a small water change, gave them some live adult brine shrimp, and added in some Tetra Blackwater Extract (TBE). The male went bonkers and started displaying to the female. I didn't see the "act" because I dozed off about 5 mins after dosing the tank with the TBE. Woke up today and saw the female behaving that way. She seems to be busy cleaning something in the cave.

My male is a lazy feeder. He eats when he wants to. I've tried giving the pair NLS pellets but to date, only the female will touch them. However, I have a thin layer of fine river sand as the substrate, so the NLS pellets are pretty much the same color as the brown bits in the sand. I might try Tetrabits since they're brighter in colour. They will eat frozen BW, but only a little bit at once. The live brine shrimp drove them nuts though.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I crush the NLS pellets and mix them together with decap bbs before pouring the mixture into the tank. The pair would peck on the bits of food and sift the substrate at the area. The fry are also feeding on this too.

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## stormhawk

I missed this reply. They're still not feeding on the NLS. Same with the caca and aga in the main community tank. They'll eat a few and ignore the rest. Probably too used to getting frozen BW and live brine shrimp.

Got this "pair" of bitaeniata last week at C328 while picking up some other stuff:



The male flaring at a mirror. I got no idea what strain these are, except that I love the blue colour.



The "female". I'm beginning to think that this is probably a sleeper male. It assumes the female pattern whenever the big male approaches, otherwise retains the fright colouration.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Cool your collection is getting bigger. I'm using the 0.05mm pellets. I don't feed mine any frozen stuff and only live bbs once in a blue moon so they haven't got much choice.  :Laughing:

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## SCOPE

Good addition...Look like getting more poison

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## stormhawk

I'm still wondering whether the smaller one is a sneaker male.  :Knockout: 

Any ideas? I'll try and get a better picture.

Same size pellets for me too doppel. Just that the buggers don't want to eat any.

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## Keithw

mine also having same problem. The Female always in the fear mode once the male chase for a while. Anyway i think if u out a mirror in front of the female the female eventually will turn bright yellow and keep whacking. Do you have this encounter?

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## stormhawk

Mine doesn't turn yellow, it takes the female pattern and keeps flaring at the mirror.

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## Keithw

hmmm maybe your female still not using to your tank yet. give her more time. then you bring out the mirror hopefully can see.

Mine don't know what happen. Don't seems to like spawning for the female. Think she waiting for christmas.

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## stormhawk

I guess so. Getting some extra plants so the smaller one has some cover. I will know if it's a male or not soon enough. It flares at the mirror faster than the bigger male. But does not show male colouration during flaring. Retains the female single lateral band pattern, but the blue-purple colour in the anal fin is confusing.  :Knockout:

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## joopsg

storm, i think its a sneaker male.
female seldom have marking on ther cheeks..

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## genes

Second that. Looks like a sneaker.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Henry and Eugene, can advise what are the defining features for a female bitaeniata other than yellow body and short fins? I have a young pair and I'm not sure whether the female is really female too. Would the black in the ventral fins be very visible at all times? I've tried to google but still cannot tell.

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## mobile2007

Determine whether female or sneaker male always a headache for apisto. I was wondering whether, is it possible to differentiate them by locating the ovary at stomach area?

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## Keithw

quite true that is a headache to differentiate a sneaker male. Any old bird can guide us along?

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## genes

Black in the ventrals only appear during breeding. I guess except for looking for the common traits of a female, the rest is up to experience. Why i say its a male because of the colorful anal fin. I have yet to come across a female through my purchases and breeding of biataeniatas that possesses an anal fin as colorful as the male. The yellow tip at the ventral also made it look like a male. 

By the way, male looks like its having a sunken belly. 

Common traits of female includes
1) yellowish body (only during breeding)
2) much smaller size then male at adulthood
3) short ventral fins
4) no elongated dorsal membranes for the first few rays
5) no elongated dorsal at the last ray (end of dorsal fin)
6) short and more rounded anal fin

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## stormhawk

The male is eating, but he doesn't gorge himself like my caca. Those pigs eat until they're mini balloons. Picture was taken when he was first moved to the smaller breeding tank. Trying to fatten them, but they don't eat much. I'll get some live BS later from C328.

Thanks for the ID. I had a feeling it was a sneaker. Oh well, time to find a real female then.  :Laughing:

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## stormhawk

Was feeding the fishes in my 4 foot tank, then I noticed one of my female caca having a skinny belly. I thought she was sick, then I saw her ovipositor extended out. She was enticing the male to enter the cave then I realised... they had finally spawned.  :Grin:

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## Keithw

congratulation Stormhawk! must be a very nice moment when you see all the fries come out and swim. 

i still waiting for this moment for my bitaeniata to spawn. somemore this few days super cooling, feed them eat fbs and bloodworm also no chance to get them spawn.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Congrats stormhawk! Must be the cold weather recently.

I just realised my Apisto sp. "wilhelmi" has a new clutch of eggs too. Interestingly she is now going between her batch of 3 weeks old fry, the eggs and chasing the male to the other end of the tank. She seems to like to spawn in ketapang leaves floating near the surface too.

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## stormhawk

Well 1st caca spawn failed. The mother is more interested in eating than guarding her nest. I haven't checked the eggs yet, but probably eaten by snails already. They'll spawn again sooner or later.  :Grin: 

I'm still waiting on my wilhelmi to spawn.

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## stormhawk

Took a video of my caca during the spawning. The female kept enticing the male to enter her "love nest". 

YouTube- Caca.3GP

My female agassizii decides to make an appearance. She's ready to spawn but I haven't found the "perfect" male companion for her yet.  :Laughing:

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## riltz

maybe you should remove the extra female first? casue the female looks very busy chasing her away. she might be over stressed after the fries become free swimming.

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## stormhawk

It's a community tank so I have no choice. In any case, the spawning female controls a fair bit of territory surrounding the coconut husk you see in the video. She spent about 1-2 hours enticing the male to spawn, but many times he chased her away. If I have to, I'll move the pair to their own tank. There's 2 other caca females, one being really small because it's constantly bullied by the female in the video, and the Orange Flash female. I have no other male caca in the tank.

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## riltz

Do you intend to keep the fries? If its a community tank will you remove the fries after they are of suitable size? Twenty over fries in a tank adds a lot of bioload and may be difficult for you to feed them.

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## stormhawk

It's a 4 foot community planted tank. If they do spawn again I'll remove the coconut husk and place it in a separate container. I know how it's like to feed the fry, but I do have a bulb syringe specifically for feeding them directly.

I did place the pair in a separate 1 foot breeding tank, but after I got the wilhelmi pair from wychay, I moved them back into the 4 foot tank.

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## stormhawk

The guys who guessed my other bitaeniata was a sneaker male, you were right.  :Laughing: 

I finally saw it growing the extensions. Today it was flaring at this new bitaeniata "female" I bought from C328 about a night ago:





Now I'm fairly certain I have a female. This one ignores the mirror, and almost always has that mid-body blotch, like brooding female bitaeniata. It has fairly short fins, with no dorsal extensions from what I see. Almost always hiding away from the 2 males.

So what do you guys think? Do I finally have a female?

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## johnlim

> Hey guys, I just purchased what I think is a true pair of _Apistogramma cacatuoides_ Triple Red from C328.
> 
> 
> 
> Best shot I got, since he keeps hiding and very seldom stays in one spot for long.
> 
> 
> 
> Close-up of the bugger hiding amongst my Vallisneria.
> ...


hi how much you buy this true pair of _Apistogramma cacatuoides_ Triple Red from 328 ...

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## stormhawk

I can't tell you the price, but it is affordable. However, many times they are not 1M/1F pairs, but instead 2M pairs. The smaller one in the packets/tanks can be sleeper/sneaker males.

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## genes

Female bitaeniata. She ignores the mirror probably because she is still new in your tank. Can see from the stress coloration. Once accustomed, females will also flare as much as the males.

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## stormhawk

Thanks for the confirmation genes. My friend told me separately via MSN that this time, my pick was correct.  :Grin: 

I have to separate her from the alpha male, because he is extremely aggressive. He's been beating the other male into submission. I seriously need to get a bigger tank with dividers.

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## joopsg

That's what happen when you have a reverse trio.

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## stormhawk

Well setting up a new 2 ft tank like altezza's setup over this coming weekend. It'll be shared by the wilhelmi and bitaeniata pairs over 2-4 partitions. Depending on how I need it to be.

I'm moving the extra male to my 4 ft community tank, since I'm not planning on using him for breeding. Besides, if by some bad luck the bigger male conks out, at least I have a replacement male.

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## stormhawk

Okay guys, I just purchased a new 2 footer with the dividers and stuff:



Originally planned to get the low version of the 2 ft tank, but C328 didn't have dividers for that size so I bought a regular 2ft tank instead.

Now the thing is, I'm not sure whether to use sponge filters since I still have my Hailea 4-way airpump, or to resurrect my Eheim 2222 to filter the entire tank, since I'll probably seal off the gaps like what altezza did to his new tank. I'm still considering whether to use an Eden 501 instead.

I can't decide on the soil to use either, since I think there's very little difference between the GEX and ADA soils.

What would you guys recommend?  :Smile: 

Planning to move the wilhelmi, bitaeniata and a newly acquired trifasciata pair (F2 from wild Bolivian stock) into this tank. I will leave 1 partition empty, perhaps to grow out any fry. Big thank you to retro_gk for the trifasciata pair and 3 young fry.  :Wink:

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## doppelbanddwarf

I would definitely go for ADA africana as substrate since it seems to be able to give the lowest pH. This way even if you get species which requires very low pH in the future you wouldn't have to change the substrate. 

As for filtration I think sponge filter would be better since the tank will be partitioned. A single cannister filter might not be effective for all 4 partitions.

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## stormhawk

I did have Africana some time back, but I threw the whole lot away when my previous collection of fishes died off. Would using Amazonia II be a better option? I feel Apistos feel more at home over a darker bottom. I was considering re-using the fine sand I have in my current 2 x 1 ft tanks instead of the more expensive ADA/GEX soils.

What's the pH buffering capability of the different soils? Do you have any idea? I know that the green? bag of GEX soil buffers the pH at 6.4 almost constantly.

I'm still out on the filtration part. My 2222 requires a brand new set of media and new hoses. Perhaps using the sponge filters would be kinder on the wallet.

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## genes

A 2footer with 3 partitions seems a tad too small in my opinion. I would prefer just 2 pieces of those plastic partitions. Although they do not need a big surface area, but they do require a bigger ground area. Making the tank into such small partitions, you risk certain death if either the male or the female (usually male) turns territorial. Use ADA africana and sera peat combination to get a pH of 5 and below. Some apistos spawn more readily in such conditions. But to achieve below 5, be mindful of acid burns on the fish that can cause instant death. 

You will need to block off those circular holes in the partitions. Even the gaps at the edges. These partition holders creates a gap to hold the plastic in place. Fries will definitely swim through without a doubt and becomes expensive life feed for the neighbors. Females may get trapped and die in the circular holes when they try to squeeze through when running away from an aggressive male. I have tried all these before hence i settled finally for a tank with glass partitions and silicone to the main tank to overcome the problems.

Goodluck! Looks like a really cool setup coming up though.

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## stormhawk

Thanks for the recommendations genes. TBH I bought an extra divider by accident. I wanted to make 3 partitions instead of 4.  :Laughing: 

Since I have a trio of juvenile trifasciata fry to grow out, I decided to use the extra divider and make it 4 partitions. I'll probably resize the partitions and make one a little narrower just for the juveniles. When they're bigger I'll move them elsewhere. Besides, it'll be a great space to condition my other females or to save them from extra aggressive males. My current dominant bitaeniata male is currently very aggressive.  :Mad: 

Do you have a recommendation as to which filter I should use? A set of sponge filters, 1 per partition or either my Eheim 2222 or an Eden 501?

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## genes

Use all you can. Sponge per partition plus eden. There is never enough filtration in a tank. So over-filtrate as much as you possibly can.

What i would do is.
1) 1 sponge filter per partition
2) Run the eden501.
3) DIY and modify (if need be) the eden outlet and connect it to a another 2ft OHF. 
4) If possible, try to connect a UV sterilizer. 

The above are my breeding setup previously. But on top of the 4, i also added GEX box filters filled with biohome instead of the wools that it comes with per partition.

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## stormhawk

Thanks again genes.

Now I remember why my 4 footer is stable. I rigged up the rainbar in the in-built OHF within the hood and set my 2026 output to link up to the rainbar. I'll find an OHF set and a lighting system later today at Y618, or I'll wait till tomorrow to visit C328 again to get the matching set for this GEX MR-600N tank. I think they have the light and OHF from GEX.

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## altezza_87

hey storm you are doing the same setup already! woo..! i would love to have genes kind of setup, glass tank with glass partition but too poor to custom one. for filtration if you can why not put 1 bubble filter for each partitions and one canister for overall. cleaner water lesser water problems. and lucky you got the tall 2ft tank, they got more space to dart around when being chased.

use ada soil! haha. uncle from Y618 told me the pH for ada soil initial setup is 4+, after cycle is 5+. thats why i used it, previously i was using lava rock but doubt it was good enough. once i change to the ada soil, the colors of my apisto come out really nice.

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## stormhawk

After some work, I got this tank complete:



I decided against using ADA soils. My experience with them has been less than satisfactory in the past, especially with Africana. I went instead with the GEX soil (dark green bag). The size of the soil pellets are just what I needed, so that food doesn't get trapped in spaces amongst the soil pellets, and apparently my Apistos in this tank like the current environment.  :Grin: 

Filtration is via an Eden 501 and a GEX E-Roka201 mini filter. The GEX mini filter is just to increase the water circulation. I decided not to use sponge filters, since the sponge at the dividers will probably act as biological filters of sorts. 

From left to right:

3 x trifasciata juveniles (very greedy)
1 x trifasciata pair 
1 x male bitaeniata (the dominant one)
1 x bitaeniata pair

I kept the female with the smaller male to see how he develops, and boy is he showing off more right now. The dominant male bitaeniata is constantly displaying to the male trifasciata through the glass.

Keeping a close watch on this tank over the next few days. Now I need another suggestion. What scavengers should I keep with the juvenile trifasciata? I thought about using my ramshorn snails, but I don't want them to overrun this tank as well. Perhaps some cherry shrimp should be fine?

Little bit of news, the dang trifasciata female laid eggs, while she was still in the breather bag. I was hoping she'd lay eggs in the tank instead, but she couldn't wait..  :Laughing:

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## altezza_87

nicely done! i think a good lighting will make your tank and fish look good.

why not bumble bee snail? they don breed in the tank right?

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## stormhawk

The light I'm using is an old Kotobuki StepLight set. Adjustable to 1.5 ft, but since the maximum length is too short, I left it in the middle sector. They don't seem to like bright lights. I wanted to get a proper 2 ft light, but decided against it since the Kotobuki PL light is fairly bright to begin with. Even brighter than the old 1.5 ft FL light I was using for the Wilhelmi tank. 

Bumble bee snail for the fry section? I don't think they can survive in the acid conditions. If they are Sulawesi snails, I doubt they'll stay alive in my tank. I'll probably get some Malayan or Cherry Shrimp since those guys are tough little critters.

I need to get some peat to help in acidifying the tank water, and some moss or extra Java fern for each partition. There's a ketapang leaf in the fry partition but not much effect for now. Water is still crystal clear.



The little trifasciata fry that retro_gk gave me. 2 of them in the shot, the 3rd is hiding. All 3 are healthy and feeding on almost everything I give them. Size between 1.3-1.5 cm, and already flaring at one another.  :Grin: 

The father trifasciata is a stunner, but I can't get a clear shot at the male. He is very shy and runs away once he spots the camera. Has some fine lines in the tail fin. Very strange for a trifasciata.

----------


## stormhawk

Finally.. success.. in photographing the dang trifasciata male:



He's a stunner. Look at the tail fin. I've never seen trifasciata with stripes in the tail before. So this male is a boggler, at least to me. 

Female here:



Pardon the crappy photographs. Taken with my handphone.

----------


## mobile2007

stormhawk, thanks for the pictures. The trifasciata really looks marvellous.  :Well done:  The size looks bigger than my type of trifasciata ( female). One of the female spawned when she was still very small size.

I noticed that the centre lateral band is missing ? 

The partition looks very nicely done. However, i think that 4 partitions is too small for breeding purpose. For more aggressive species, casuality might occurs during mating or after fries free swimming period.

----------


## joopsg

Regarding Mobile2007 Question:
I noticed that the centre lateral band is missing ? 


I think he took the picture while they are still sleeping..

----------


## stormhawk

Nope they weren't sleeping. The male shows the middle lateral band when he's out feeding. In darker conditions like that cave hideout, he loses it and turns all blue. The female is huge. She's about the same size as the male. So far no action from them yet, but I noticed them moving around together. 

I got no choice but to stick with the current 4 partitions. Took awhile to get them into place, because the space to work with wasn't easy, especially with a GEX tank that had the top black bracing piece around the edges. So I had to put the partitions in the tank and push them into place. Fitting the black sponge at the slots in between the partitions was very difficult too, because the space in between the tank panel and the divider's edge was like 2-3 mm. Took my gf awhile to squeeze them into place.

I planned it this way though. The 3rd partition containing the big male bitaeniata is like my male storage facility. If either trifasciata or bitaeniata spawn, I'll move the male into that partition. So far it's okay. Enough floor space for the fish to establish territories.

Right now the female trifasciata is fattening up. I hope she gets into spawning mode soon.  :Grin: 

I still need to get peat and apple cider to help in acidifying the water further. Probably going down to C328 this weekend to get some aquarium peat.

----------


## SCOPE

i like the first pic......very nicely taken with the blue shine. the Photo is swee

----------


## stormhawk

Taken with flash scope, he's usually more white when he's out looking for food. Only time he ever turn bluish is when he see the bitaeniata male then flare like mad.  :Laughing: 

I hope they breed soon. This strain from bro retro_gk is awesome. I don't like the yellow headed trifasciata forms, this one with bluish head I love a lot.

----------


## SCOPE

> Taken with flash scope, he's usually more white when he's out looking for food. Only time he ever turn bluish is when he see the bitaeniata male then flare like mad. 
> 
> I hope they breed soon. This strain from bro retro_gk is awesome. I don't like the yellow headed trifasciata forms, this one with bluish head I love a lot.


yes, agree! swee...look like those German bred colors... not seen for many years already since SamYick last brought in from Germany. 
Great sharing!

----------


## joopsg

Scope, you mean the Guapore Red strain??
Long Time no see the wine red dorsal..

----------


## mobile2007

For partitioning, i think everyone faced the same problem and used the sponge to plug the gap.

Kind of troublesome, so i went down to serangoon hadrware shop and cut the acrylic sheet to size. Very nicely fit into the fiveplan and nisso 2ft tank. 28.7cm for the width, no more gaps, fries can't even get though. But u need to drill some holes in the middle for the water circulation.

----------


## stormhawk

Well too late for that now. I'm happy with the sponge fillers at the gaps. They don't restrict water flow. As of right now, the fry partition's water level is slightly lower, but the other 3 partitions are equal level. Even when I top up water, it stays the same way. So I don't bother any more as long as there's no water flow issues. 

Besides, sooner or later the sponge will host some beneficial bacteria anyway. So in essence they will act as mini sponge filters within the same tank.  :Grin:

----------


## altezza_87

> For partitioning, i think everyone faced the same problem and used the sponge to plug the gap.
> 
> Kind of troublesome, so i went down to serangoon hadrware shop and cut the acrylic sheet to size. Very nicely fit into the fiveplan and nisso 2ft tank. 28.7cm for the width, no more gaps, fries can't even get though. But u need to drill some holes in the middle for the water circulation.


did you silicon it to the tank since there won't be space to use the holder to keep the acrylic in place?

----------


## mobile2007

The acrylic sheet stand on its own, but will slanted to one side when you siphoned water from the partition. 

You can use silicon gel to permantly fix it in place. As i don't want a fix partition, i placed 1 rubber suckers on each side to support them.

----------


## altezza_87

i see i see. i don't want to see my partition moving so i rather stick to using the holder and covering holes with sponge.

----------


## mobile2007

Well, for your case, as long it works fine, don't see anything wrong with that method.  :Smile:  I always believed there are more than one way of tackling a problem, just sharing alternative way over here.

----------


## altezza_87

yea no problem keke. i think as long as there is flexibility it will be great for the fishes.

----------


## stormhawk

Well for those who want to make the holders as "invisible as possible, place them right at the bottom and fit the dividers in. Then when you fill in the gravel/substrate, it "disappears" from sight.  :Grin: 

A photo I took last night:



The bigger male bitaeniata. Anyone got an idea of the population? I like the bluish tones.  :Grin:

----------


## cory

Nice bitaeniata you have there  :Wink: 

Can share where you acquired them & pm me the damage if possible?

After clearing some of the fishes have some tank space for a new pair of apisto, yesterday after reading bro burpz's post thought of getting a pair of panduro. Is it difficult to find in spore? Any recommendations?

Thanks.  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

I got the bitaeniata at C328. First time I purchased them, I ended up with 2 males, because they were still in the bag and the smaller one's finnage not showing up right. Got lucky in another visit and buy the female. I think 1 pair costs about 4 red notes, or lesser. Seldom come in though.

Apistogramma panduro common I think. But most of the time you will get nijsenni, not panduro.

----------


## cory

Thanks for the info.

Later will drop by c328 & see whether can get any A.panduro.  :Smile:

----------


## burpz

> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Later will drop by c328 & see whether can get any A.panduro.


Did you find your panduro bro? Any nice catch from C328?

----------


## cory

Did not managed to find A.panduro. Bought 5 German rams instead  :Smile: 
Think all 5 are females.

----------


## burpz

> Did not managed to find A.panduro. Bought 5 German rams instead 
> Think all 5 are females.


Nice! Can share pics on another thread?

----------


## cory

The rams are still at their juvenile stage, quite young & colours not shown yet. 4 out of the 5 rams has a pinkish belly, only 1 is uncertain. Wish there will be both gender in the 5.  :Smile: 

Been wanting to purchase some true german rams (not balloon) for quite some time, finally saw on saturday & decided to get them than apistos.

----------


## stormhawk

Good choice. I thought about getting Rams, but decided against it. I did have 2 females spawn with each other once. Funny thing was, the male totally ignored them and didn't bother to fertilise any eggs.  :Knockout: 

I will try Rams again some time in the future.

----------


## burpz

I was itching to try rams, but went into apistogramma instead last week. Now contemplating which my next pair of fish is going to be.

----------


## cory

> Good choice. I thought about getting Rams, but decided against it. I did have 2 females spawn with each other once. Funny thing was, the male totally ignored them and didn't bother to fertilise any eggs. 
> 
> I will try Rams again some time in the future.


 
Thanks storm,

Had a few bad experience with rams, especially the balloon & gold variant. Died off one by one without any systoms or signs. 

Think the 5 I got last sat from c328 were all females  :Smile:

----------


## cory

> I was itching to try rams, but went into apistogramma instead last week. Now contemplating which my next pair of fish is going to be.


 
Hi burpz,

Your next pair of fish is here, bro johannes selling a pair of F1 german ram.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63055

----------


## burpz

> Hi burpz,
> 
> Your next pair of fish is here, bro johannes selling a pair of F1 german ram.
> 
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63055


Too far, and no space at the moment... Unless I bring them home... When my cherry barbs not even cleared...  :Crying:

----------


## stormhawk

Took a peek early this morning, and saw the female Bolivian trifasciata in her brooding colours:



She did not leave the cave except to feed on some live brine shrimp, and I was noticing that she was cleaning the inner surface of the cave. She piled up some of the gravel from the bottom of the cave and dropped them bit by bit just outside the cave. But I did get a pleasant surprise as I turned my handphone:



Success! Finally they spawned. The eggs look fertile to me.  :Grin: 

Now, to wait for the little ones to hatch. She's not even fighting the male. They stay at their respective corners.

----------


## burpz

Congrates bro!  :Well done:

----------


## stormhawk

Thanks.  :Smile:  Update - the fry just hatched earlier this morning, or last night. Still in wriggler stage, so the mother has been busy staying in there looking after them. I hope to see them free-swimming by tomorrow or the day after.

----------


## mobile2007

gongxi gongxi.  :Grin:  You sure you got enough tanks ?? haha

----------


## stormhawk

Thanks.  :Grin: 

I think should be sufficient for now. Next partition only a single young male bitaeniata. I de-commissioned a 1 footer about 2 weeks back when I started the 2 ft partition.. maybe have to bring it back to life.  :Laughing: 

Now I need to get some decap BBS. Hatching BBS at home is a big no-no for me. My mom hates the sound of an air pump running. That or restart my vinegar eel culture.

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

Congrats. You could get one of those bbs hatchery. No need for airpumps. But I guess decap bbs should be the most hassle free.

----------


## burpz

Congrates bro!  :Grin:

----------


## stormhawk

> Congrats. You could get one of those bbs hatchery. No need for airpumps. But I guess decap bbs should be the most hassle free.


I can make the bubble free hatchery myself with a takeaway tub or some other plastic bin, but the hatch rate doesn't seem to be as high with a standard bubble powered hatchery. I'll probably go with the decapsulated BSE instead, or maybe give Cyclop-Eeze a try. I saw some at C328 the other day, might as well give it a go.

----------


## cory

Congrats bro  :Grin: ,

May I know where you get the ceramic cave for your apisto? Maybe I should get a nice cave for my pair too. 

Think c328 still have 1 or 2 packets of decaps bse when i went there last sat.  :Smile:  

Do update us on the trifasciata frys.  :Grin:

----------


## stormhawk

Thanks cory.

I bought the cave at C328. It's from StarPet brand. You can find it in the tank just outside C328. Right beside the clinic to the right of the store from the front. There's a similar one from UP brand, but the opening is quite high. The UP one is a copy of the Dennerle shrimp/crayfish house, but in different colour.

I saw the decap bse, but there's 2 different brands. ANS and Waterlife. I think I'll wait a little bit. Waiting for aunty to restock the Cyclop-Eeze anyway. For now I have Liquifry No.1, boiled egg yolk and crushed NLS pellets as standby food.  :Smile: 

The fry are still wriggling and the mother is guarding them. She tolerates the male, which is strange. Because the first pair of trifasciata I spawned some years ago, the female killed the male.

----------


## cory

Thanks for the information on the caves storm.

It will be good to wait for the new stocks of bse to come in, the one I bought (ANS brand) looks like old stock with dust already collected on the packaging. 

Seems like you are well prepared  :Smile: , do keep us update & share some pictures if possible  :Grin:

----------


## stormhawk

5 days since I first saw the eggs, today I finally see the fry moving about slowly in the cave. The mother is still cautious about letting them go out into the open, but she is tolerant of the male's presence so far. They never really fight, sometimes out in the open feeding together.

Here's a blurry photo I took about 3 days ago at night:



You can see some fry hanging on the inner wall of the cave. Did not take any recent pictures, since I don't want to stress the female out. The fry should be free swimming by tomorrow or the day after I think.  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Weeeee... 

Dec 14th: the little ones have started to swim about and poke their heads around looking for food. The father and mother are guarding them. They've been very busy chasing away anything that comes close to their side of the divider.  :Laughing: 



The mother doing guard duty. She's a very attentive mother. I've seen her pick up stray fry, hold them in her mouth for some time, then spit them out at a safe spot. This brood of fry is huge. I think there's at least 50+ fry. Needless to say, I was shocked.  :Grin:

----------


## burpz

Happy for you bro! Hope they turn out well. So you cultured your "baby food"?

----------


## cory

50+ frys, that a large brood. You are having a very dutiful pair of trifasciata parent.  :Smile: 

So in future we will know who to inquire if we were to search for Bolivian trifasciata apistogramma  :Laughing:

----------


## stormhawk

Nope no culturing for now. They're taking Liquifry No.1 and powdered NLS pellets. I had to crush the pellets otherwise they couldn't swallow it. Getting BBS either tomorrow or Thursday. Weekend, I hope I can get live daphnia.

----------


## burpz

I see... So they are gobbling those up with no issues? I was wondering where to get microworm to seed the oats in the event I need them.

----------


## stormhawk

The fry are eating fine, but I have to mix the Liquifry in a small tub and use my turkey baster/bulb syringe to squirt it into the tank slowly. It forms a cloud of particles in the tank, and the fry go bonkers. I don't think any one is culturing microworms at the moment, perhaps maybe some betta breeders. I remember one who stayed in Bedok, and he used to sell them on the forum sales section.

Probably have to get a culture again from somewhere outside Singapore. Microworms are real easy to culture anyway.

----------


## wychay

50+  :Shocked:  Have fun bro!

----------


## stormhawk

Yeah a lot of fun. I will probably go crazy just trying to house them.  :Laughing: 

Some pictures I took earlier:



The mother guarding her fry at night. She'd huddle them altogether in a tight group in 1 spot for the night.



Best picture so far, with my crappy handphone camera of the trifasciata "El Prado 07" male.  :Grin:

----------


## burpz

WE can house them for you bro...  :Grin: 
With your handphone camera... Quite well taken... The little fella must have been very obedient...  :Laughing:

----------


## stormhawk

Nope he was just in position flaring at the young male bitaeniata in the next partition. Sad to say though, I'm down to 3 fry or so. Apparently there was a gap in the divider that I did not cover up properly. They swam over into the partition with 3 juvenile trifasciata, and probably got snacked on.  :Sad: 

Oh well, both the parents seem to be in spawning mode again. The female has been hiding underneath the Java Fern bunch. She did the same thing prior to spawning the first time round, so hopefully I'll get a second spawn going soon. Just upset to see 3 lonely fry running about, and the mother does not really care for them any more.

----------


## mobile2007

I like this picture, very nice.  :Smile: 

Always got round 2 , then round 3... and so on. 





> Yeah a lot of fun. I will probably go crazy just trying to house them. 
> 
> Some pictures I took earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> The mother guarding her fry at night. She'd huddle them altogether in a tight group in 1 spot for the night.

----------


## SCOPE

that picture is about mothering care....very well taken!

----------


## stormhawk

Easy to take it when lights are out.  :Grin: 

But the mother only did this for the 1st week after the fry started being free-swimming. After that she doesn't really bother.

----------


## burpz

Hmm... How are the fries now?

----------


## stormhawk

Down to 3 last I checked. I mentioned a problem I had with the dividers earlier. Somehow some of them went over to one of the other partitions and got eaten.

----------


## burpz

Hope your 3 turn out beautiful, and better outcome in the next spawn.

----------


## stormhawk

Sad to say, all 3 remaining fry are gone. I did not see them about 2 days after my last post in this thread. Anyway the female has fattened up, so I hope they'll spawn again pretty soon. Got this pair from bro SCOPE too:



The picture doesn't do them justice, but the female is beautiful. Even at that small size she is showing some nice facial markings as per eremnopyge females.  :Grin: 

Both of them have potential to be beauties later on. I must say a big thank you to SCOPE for this pair.

----------


## stormhawk

Some better pictures of the eremnopyge pair:



Ap. eremnopyge "Río Pintuyacu" - Male



Ap. eremnopyge "Río Pintuyacu" - Female

Finally settled in. The male has been flaring daily at the trifasciata male to the left partition. He ignores the male bitaeniata in the right partition. Female has been flaring almost always at the bitaeniata female.  :Laughing:

----------


## SCOPE

> Some better pictures of the eremnopyge pair:
> 
> 
> 
> Ap. eremnopyge "Río Pintuyacu" - Male
> 
> 
> 
> Ap. eremnopyge "Río Pintuyacu" - Female
> ...



Nice photos....hope you breed them soon

----------


## stormhawk

Working on it.  :Grin: 

The female was showing some signs of a breathing problem. I took her out and treated her, so far she's responding well to medication. Going to observe her over the next 2-3 days. Dosed the tank with some Sera Protazol since I suspect there might be external parasites in the tank. I hope she'll be fine tomorrow.

----------


## Luc Tango

nice fishes acquired bro. I think you should upgrade your tanks soon eh, probably going to get a few more pairs?  :Wink:

----------


## stormhawk

Thanks for the compliments Luc.

Nope no more fish for now. I have enough as it is. Must always know the limit otherwise there will be issues later on.  :Laughing:

----------


## burpz

Agree with you on this... Trying hard to resist the apistopoison...  :Knockout:

----------


## SCOPE

haha! i am still kenna poisoned for the last 10 years...simply hard to resist

----------


## joopsg

The only way to cure this posion is to stop keeping fish.

----------


## burpz

That might proof even harder...  :Laughing:

----------


## cory

Think the best way to counter apisto poison is to contract other poisons like plecs or cory poison .... think I caught all 3  :Grin:

----------


## burpz

Haha... 1 poison is enough...

----------


## cory

Get more poisons then they will spread out evenly, and not so deadly.  :Grin:

----------


## burpz

Countering poison with poison I see....

----------


## stormhawk

Too much poison is bad at times, not just on the wallet, but on the space available at home.  :Laughing: 

I lost several of the caca in my main 4 ft tank. It's having a minor BGA attack at the moment so I'm going with the blackout method for now. Once that tank re-stabilises and I replant some new plants, I'll probably get some new apistos for that tank. Until then the single Triple Red female is the only apisto survivor there. I was thinking of getting some baenschi for that tank instead.  :Grin: 

In any case, the eremnopyge female pulled through. Today I saw her cruising around looking for food as per normal, so I'm glad I did not have to face another casualty.

----------


## cory

Hope your tank will stablise soon storm, and remember to show us pics of your 4ft tank after the rescape.

How about apisto amadeus in the 4 footer? I can spare you few if the frys manage to grow to survive for 2 months  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Thanks for the offer cory, but I'm still observing the 4 footer for now. I had some fish deaths in that tank. Several of my Corydoras habrosus, Boraras, all 4 of my killies and 3 caca died in there. Uptil now I'm still stumped as to what happened. Probably a bacterial infection, since my aga female died some time ago. I think it might be due to something that I was feeding my fish with. 

In any case, no more deaths to date and the sole female caca left in the tank is doing well, along with the surviving dwarf cory and Otos. Funny thing is, during the die off, my 2 Sakura shrimp in the tank, my 3 Otos, 6 Assassin Snails were totally unaffected.  :Confused:

----------


## Wackytpt

> The only way to cure this posion is to stop keeping fish.


Don't talk so much... ahaa... When are you coming back =p

----------


## joopsg

> Don't talk so much... ahaa... When are you coming back =p


Hope by next year lor..
When I can afford to get my own place to rebuild my interest.
My Apistogramma Empire  :Grin: 
My Apistogramma Coy?

Every time drooling when Joe released his apistogrammas for us to grab.
Very poisonous to my pocket also.

----------


## Wackytpt

Hope so man.

I am "retired" already from apisto.

Remember our mouth bruther apisto project? =p

----------


## joopsg

Serious?
I seriously hope Joe can get hold of some pairs of A. Barlowi for me when i come back.

of course i remember. But it is very hard to get.
Maybe can do Candidi project or Baeschi Project.
Uaupesi is also good.

----------


## Wackytpt

Candidi ,Baeschi or Uaupesi Project should be easy for him.

It is the A. Barlowi that I am keen on.

----------


## joopsg

Same here, Barlowi.
I asked Joe about them, He said no stock for them at the moment.

----------


## SCOPE

> Same here, Barlowi.
> I asked Joe about them, He said no stock for them at the moment.


haha! i will first thing inform you on this sp. mouthbrooder once available!....Do not know why now so many want them.....during those time Samyick brought in form Germany, no one look at them even.....pale super big fat apisto. i brought the only pair then. It was during breeding that you will see their true color....really Woah!

----------


## Wackytpt

It is a special apisto on its own. =)

Those apisto keeper will know what is it and will be tempted to try it.

Haha.

----------


## SCOPE

> It is a special apisto on its own. =)
> 
> Those apisto keeper will know what is it and will be tempted to try it.
> 
> Haha.


true.....esp collector will surely grab these oddballs

----------


## joopsg

The only apistogramma that do mouthbrooding.
Isn't that tempting??
Used to have a pair to when they were brought in by Far East Aquatics.
Both of the sexes were gorgeous looking man.

----------


## SCOPE

> The only apistogramma that do mouthbrooding.
> Isn't that tempting??
> Used to have a pair to when they were brought in by Far East Aquatics.
> Both of the sexes were gorgeous looking man.


So i guess this is likely to be your first pair when you come back to the hobby.

----------


## joopsg

Haha..
I will definitely getting when I come back.
Joe, 2 pairs can??

Adoketa also can but price abit steep but should be worth the penny.

----------


## SCOPE

> Haha..
> I will definitely getting when I come back.
> Joe, 2 pairs can??
> 
> Adoketa also can but price abit steep but should be worth the penny.


Sure! when you come back...

----------


## stormhawk

Haha joop, I think you faster come back better. Just in case Joe finds the maulbruter overseas and you have no ready tank.  :Laughing: 

Now I'm slowly looking back at killifish. Die.. wait no more space for tanks.  :Knockout:

----------


## joopsg

> Haha joop, I think you faster come back better. Just in case Joe finds the maulbruter overseas and you have no ready tank.


I am worried at all.
If joe can secure 1 pair, he know where to get when i need them.
I don't mind waiting.

----------


## stormhawk

Double post joop. I might want to give the barlowi a try later on since it has a different form of fry care.  :Smile: 

On the other hand, my trifasciata "El Prado" female is digging a pit under one of the coconut husks. She hasn't come out for feeding lately so I think she's guarding another batch of eggs.  :Grin:

----------


## joopsg

Extra post deleted.
Also read that Barlowi's brood will much easier to take care if the substrate for the tank is river sand. 
Interesting.

----------


## stormhawk

Hmm, if that's the case I have some river sand lying around. Do you have the link to the info? I want to have a read so can plan ahead.  :Grin:

----------


## joopsg

http://www.calypso.org.uk/Aquarticle...aulbruter.html

This is the link i read.
Hope its will help us to get ready to get our next pair of Barlowi.

----------


## Wackytpt

Got a setup of ada soil with sand which was setup a few weeks ago. Haha.

----------


## joopsg

> Got a setup of ada soil with sand which was setup a few weeks ago. Haha.


That's very evil of you, Nic.
Can start up first..

----------


## Wackytpt

Haha..... Setup for fun. =p

----------


## stormhawk

I have a fine sand setup at the moment as well. It's housing some Cherry Shrimp at the moment but I can always move them out if I want the tank for other stuff. Anyway, sharing some pictures:


Apistogramma eremnopyge "Río Pintuyacu"

Best picture I've taken of this male so far. He doesn't like to stay in a single spot for long.  :Mad: 



2nd spawn of my trifasciata "El Prado 07". The female is very productive.  :Grin:  I took out the male earlier as a precaution. Good thing I did that too, since the female is less stressed. She spends a lot of time guarding the fry. At night she collects them by using her mouth then she transports them back to the hide out where they huddle up.


Close-up on the fry during meal time.

They're chowing down on live daphnia today. You can see their bellies full of daphnia.  :Laughing: 



One of the juveniles that Rahul passed me with the adult pair. They are growing slowly on a diet of frozen BW and live daphnia with the occasional feeding of live adult BS. I don't give them pellets since they hate it.

----------


## SCOPE

Nice pictures.....moments of poisons....big brood of fry!

----------


## stormhawk

Haha Joe, yes major poison. I'm seriously considering getting baenschi now.  :Laughing: 

The eremnopyge female is all yellow but no action yet. I need to get a proper pH pen and reduce the pH further I think. Perhaps 5.5 - 5.8 should get them to breed. Funny thing is, now my bitaeniata in hiding mode. They never come out, only during feeding time, and the female is busy doing something under her hideout.. I hope not another spawning in progress.  :Laughing:

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## SCOPE

> Haha Joe, yes major poison. I'm seriously considering getting baenschi now. 
> 
> The eremnopyge female is all yellow but no action yet. I need to get a proper pH pen and reduce the pH further I think. Perhaps 5.5 - 5.8 should get them to breed. Funny thing is, now my bitaeniata in hiding mode. They never come out, only during feeding time, and the female is busy doing something under her hideout.. I hope not another spawning in progress.


hehe! Master breeder got more pictures to poison us soon.....

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## stormhawk

I wish I was a master breeder, but I'm not.  :Laughing: 

Took a crappy photo of the female bitaeniata a few days ago with my HP:



I hope it's really female and not another random sneaker. Same fish I photographed last year after I purchased it from C328.

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## SCOPE

> I wish I was a master breeder, but I'm not. 
> 
> Took a crappy photo of the female bitaeniata a few days ago with my HP:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's really female and not another random sneaker. Same fish I photographed last year after I purchased it from C328.


i am sure this is a female.....

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## stormhawk

That's what I thought too, but it's been a few months and no action as yet. Maybe the male is not working hard enough. This particular female seldom turns yellow and never gets fat, but occasionally displays the mid body blotch like other females.

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## joopsg

> I wish I was a master breeder, but I'm not. 
> 
> Took a crappy photo of the female bitaeniata a few days ago with my HP:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's really female and not another random sneaker. Same fish I photographed last year after I purchased it from C328.


Could it be a female from another species?
Sneaker male?

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## SCOPE

> Could it be a female from another species?
> Sneaker male?


it is Bitaeniata...100% female....

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## Luc Tango

yuh, looks exactly like the female i have.  :Smile:

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## mobile2007

seems like all apisto keeper got sneaker phobia.  :Laughing: 




> I wish I was a master breeder, but I'm not. 
> 
> Took a crappy photo of the female bitaeniata a few days ago with my HP:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's really female and not another random sneaker. Same fish I photographed last year after I purchased it from C328.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I think a sneaker male is every apisto keeper's nightmare. :Knockout:

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## genes

> That's what I thought too, but it's been a few months and no action as yet. Maybe the male is not working hard enough. This particular female seldom turns yellow and never gets fat, but occasionally displays the mid body blotch like other females.


Looks female to me too. I think Romer stated that bitaeniatas are not easy to breed and sensitive to diseases. Maybe thats why you still have no luck. However, i think otherwise. Try doing frequent 50% water changes. May help. But then again, maybe this trick does not apply to farm bred specimens because they have not experienced the seasonal water/temp changes compared to their wild cousins. I had lots of success breeding wild bitaeniatas but have never bought farm bred bitaeniatas before so, no experience with the latter.

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## stormhawk

Well I swapped out the bigger male with the smaller male. Let's see how it goes. I'm just hoping for the best. If there's no action I'll move them to my community tank, and see if that helps.  :Laughing: 

No losses among the trifasciata fry even with the last water change. I guess taking out the male was highly necessary. I did some minor modifications to the tank dividers so the fry don't escape via the gap behind the holders. So far so good.  :Grin:

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## genes

> I think a sneaker male is every apisto keeper's nightmare.


Chongyu, its also part and parcel for keeping apistogrammas.  :Grin: 

Even very experience players cannot do a 100% ID sometimes. These fishes are just too good in cloaking themselves!  :Laughing:

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## leeruisheng

Looks like male to me too. Can see that it's about to form very small caudal extensions.

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## stormhawk

Update on my apistos. I lost the female wilhelmi to dropsy, the male bitaeniata to some other weird disease, and the female went with him up to fishy heaven soon after. Lost my eremnopyge male and now the female is not doing so good. My trifasciata female is gone as well, so the male is lonely again. At least the 3 juveniles are still going strong.

In any case, got myself these cheap Rams from C328:





The only 2 I could catch decent pictures of. I bought 10 originally, over 2 trips, but 1 died recently. Colouring up nicely in my community tank with brand new tank mates. Bought a bag of 30 Cardinals and those guys are little gluttons!  :Laughing:

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## exotic_idiot

I'm sorry about your Apisto.. But it's just how it is.. Some people thinks they're hardy some people like me mine keep dieing too.. That's why we have the Apisto trading programme..

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## stormhawk

It's alright. Fishes die, it's a part of life. I think of it this way. More tank space for other fish.  :Smile:  Always look on the bright side of life.  :Laughing:

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## exotic_idiot

Yup it's good that you think that way "positive thinking"!!!
Lesson from mistakes too.. I have been reading your past threads..
Try not to partion them into small space should use atleast 1ft or more to house a pair if you want to breed.
And partion using silcone if your pair do breed the fries won't squeeze to compartment, I do make the same mistakes and a lot of fries end up as snacks..
So now planning to get a female for your trifasciata male?

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## stormhawk

I'm not going to breed them any more. Just raising the juvenile trifasciata and hoping I'll get a sexable pair out of them. Turning to other things for now. After losing the eremnopyge, the mood is lost so might as well keep other fish. The Rams are keeping me busy as well. I think I have 2 pairs out of the 9 pieces.  :Opps:

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## joopsg

I know how it feels when you see your precious apistogramma dies.
Just want to highlight something, try keeping them in cooler water condition.
Last time i tried keeping 1 pair in cooler water condition and 1 one with higher temperature.
The pair with the high temperature died first, think they age faster in higher temperature.
like human, as they age, they tend to fall sick easily.

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## exotic_idiot

Stormhawk: Yup rams are nice and attractive too.. I just came across joe's inka! Nice nice.. http://apistogramma.weebly.com/uploa...96005_orig.jpg

Henry: I now know why biotope is fully air-condition... Heheee :Smile: 
Our temperature in singapore always unpredictable.
It's better to place your tanks away from the window.

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## stormhawk

Yup you guys have a point. Keeping fish cool is better, but alas, having a chiller is not something I want to spend money on. In any event, the Rams are starting to pair off.  :Laughing:

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## Jitticus

Alternatively, you can check out the Mergus cichlid II and see which species is tolerant to warm temperatures. I believe the borelli, agasizzi, cacatuoides (domesticated ones), breitbinden (the ones from Colombia) are quite tolerant of heat. On the same note, the galaxis I got from NKS have bred. Even with the heat wave in KL, they are quite happy.  :Smile: 
The bitaeniata from the same shipment seem rather happy as well, if only there were more females from the 6 pieces I took home (there was only 2, even with careful selection)

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## exotic_idiot

We can switch to fan instead of using chiller save cost.
Just place your tanks away from window and electric products will be fine :Smile: 
Room temperature is good enough for me.

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