# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  Apisto chat/LFS watchlist & etc

## EdwinTay

hi guys

I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this. I am wondering of any brothers are interested in getting wild apistos. I have ordered before from NKS but they need confirmed mass order before they can import. So I am trying to do a survey here if we can get enough interest. Would appreciate it if you guys can indicate yr interest in the species. My interests are listed below (some are farm-bred).

Thanks in advance for yr paticipation in the survey.

1) Hongsloi 1
2) Hongsloi 2
3) Inka (JSX has but a bit pricey)
4) Hoignei
5) Malbreuter (the mouthbrooder)
6) Atahulpa (Sunset)
7) Agassizii Fire (JSX has but a bit pricey)
 :Cool:  Vijieta
9) Mamore
10) Macmasteri
11) Bitaeniata (the purple one)
12) Breitbinden
13) Steindachneri
14) Rotkeil
15) Caca Orange
16) Caca Triple Red
17) Borellii Opal
1 :Cool:  Nijsseni

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## joeybabooey

> hi guys
> 
> I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this. I am wondering of any brothers are interested in getting wild apistos. I have ordered before from NKS but they need confirmed mass order before they can import. So I am trying to do a survey here if we can get enough interest. Would appreciate it if you guys can indicate yr interest in the species. My interests are listed below (some are farm-bred).
> 
> Thanks in advance for yr paticipation in the survey.
> 
> 1) Hongsloi 1
> 2) Hongsloi 2
> 3) Inka (JSX has but a bit pricey)
> ...


I second this list! =) I once had a third of this list in a community tank i'd would do anything to have them again... I will try to support your intentions for MO as best as i can! I hope many other apisto keepers out there can support too!

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## kingmartin83

I definitely buy at least 2-3 pairs of Nijsseni if there is. Have not seen any around for the past 4-5 months since my last paired died late last year.

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## leonard6july

I'm game for a couple of pairs of the smaller apisto species if someone can educate me. I am currently have the " checker board apistos". Got them from a LFS in Bishan, they were pretty young. Turns out it's 2 females and a male.

 ::smt023:  ::smt023:  ::smt023:  ::smt023:  ::smt023:

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## doppelbanddwarf

Checkerboards are not Apistogrammas but are also South American dwarf cichlids. You probably got the Discrossus filamentosus.

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## stormhawk

Unfortunately, what I'd like to keep is not on the list. 

Apistogramma eremnopyge = A sp. Fresa
Apistogramma trifasciata
Apistogramma sp. Wilhelmi A228 form

The Fresa aka Strawberry will always be no.1 on my list. Anyone seen nice trifasciata anywhere?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Kingmartin83 - are panduras related to nijsseni? I think can get panduras in LFS.

Bro Stormhawk - Yes, I forgot about Strawberry. Nice fish but...I can only keep so many.
I find trifasciata very aggressive. I prefer mamore. As for Wilhelmi, does it go by another name?

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## Stormz

Why not order from JZX or Aqua one. NKS does bring in but personally I think the price is quite expensive. Aqua one is the only one that once brought in a huge collection for us to choose and had a huge rack displaying the stock. Prices reasonable and staff there friendly, personal feelings only (I'm not their supporter or working for them)

Just that they are in this trade doing fish business for many years, only recently then came out with this Aqua one doing retail.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Apisto sp wilhelmi is also known as Apistogramma sp. "Abacaxis". 
This website actually mentions why it should be Apistogramma sp. "Abacaxis". i'm not sure whether it has been formally described.
http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogr...p_Abacaxis.php


I think it was mentioned that AquaOne does not have much apistos now. NKS used to bring in large wild shipments but not much demend for these. People want "confirmed pairs" at low price rather than choosing from a tankful of fishes. Small shipments are not feasible because of shipping costs.

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## leonard6july

> Checkerboards are not Apistogrammas but are also South American dwarf cichlids. You probably got the Discrossus filamentosus.



Oh, nice to know that they are not included in this group. 

Anyway, I am still keen on joining the mass order if it takes off.

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## RHX

I'd be interested to get a couple of pairs of Inka & Rotkeil if the MO takes off. Was thinking of doing a apisto community tank in my 4 ft. Currently it looks pretty empty with a lone Altum with a couple of rummy nose & cardinal tetras.

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## kingmartin83

Hi Edwin,

Please share if you know which lfs has panduras, Ive been making almost bi-weekly trips to c328 and y618, but never seen them for past few months. Thanks

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## mkt

any tried getting from the wellknown german breeder? His Apistos always looks extra-colorful......

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## stormhawk

Hmm, trifasciata were quite gentle for me. The female was aggressive during brood care but other than that she barely bothered the other fish in the tank.

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## doppelbanddwarf

> any tried getting from the wellknown german breeder? His Apistos always looks extra-colorful......


In the past some members did. 
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...super-red-quot
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...d-from-Germany

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## EdwinTay

hi all

wow...looks like there are at least 10 hardcore guys. I am off to the Philippines next week. When I come back, I will consolidate the interest & take it from there.

bro KingMartin83, I saw some panduras at Y618 ard Sep/ Oct last year.

if any kind bros know of any farms which still carry apistos, perhaps they can share here.
AND, PERSONAL REQUEST - IF ANYONE IS GOING, CAN I HITCH A RIDE?

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## Stormz

Edwin, I'm staying in the east, if Aqua one brings in, I'll update in this thread. If you want visit Aqua one can be arrange.

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## joeybabooey

I know AquaOne do not bring in much apistos anymore... It has always been a battle between JZX and AquaOne in terms of price and quality.

I believe NKS will bother if there really is a demand so we must gang up and cook up a big order  :Smile:  i feel that they rather bring in rift lake cichlids... well, i'm definitely in. I don't want to spoil market but i dont mind paying the money if its reasonable and it'll make me feel good about this hobby. If its good and what you want, pay for it.

To be honest i never knew Y618 had any apistos to begin with. But i know that whatever Y618 has, C328 will have too. Maybe Y618 could have more surprises like i've seen before! I use this as my gauge to count the worth travelling there because i stay in the west. (If C238 no apistos then Y618 wouldn't have and vice versa)

Please correct me if i'm terribly wrong because these are my observations from being a few years in this hobby  :Smile: 

That being said, bro Edwin, i wouldn't mind meeting up with you and other bros to pay a visit and can 'la teh' after that. Feel free to contact me when you're back?

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## alfredliow316

> Unfortunately, what I'd like to keep is not on the list. 
> 
> Apistogramma eremnopyge = A sp. Fresa
> Apistogramma trifasciata
> Apistogramma sp. Wilhelmi A228 form
> 
> The Fresa aka Strawberry will always be no.1 on my list. Anyone seen nice trifasciata anywhere?


Just managed to spawn some fresh 'Strawberries' few days ago  :Very Happy:

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## EdwinTay

Bro Stormz - tks - hopefully AquaOne brings in more
Bro Joeybabooey - Abt 1 1/2 years ago, NKS mass ordered & I bought some (I actually told them what to bring in). From what I understood, they lost money because of casualties & lack of interest Yes, I will arrange some sort of meeting after I come back. Anyone else want to join in?
Bro alfredliow316 - Congrats & I chop a pair of Strawberries

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## stormhawk

alfred, like that I should head to Selangor??  :Evil: 

Lack of tank space means I cannot commit to this MO for now. Once you are able to create a list for people to order from, make an official MO post in the right sub-forum. Contact vinz or Simon for permission before doing so.  :Smile:

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## apisto31

Last week when I called AquaOne, they said no more Apistos for them for now. C328 doesn't bring in apisto lately as well.
JZX is just waiting for their apistogramma order to come in hopefully next week. This includes Ap. Fresa as well which Im also waiting to get females for my lonesome male. Anyone wants to let go a Female Fresa (Strawberry) let me know!  :Grin: 

Lets see how this MO will progress, I might be getting the Maulbruter is its WC. 

cheers

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## Stormz

Aquaone will be bringing in later. They are consolidating the stock overseas for now, that's from my understanding,

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## joeybabooey

Oh man... this all sounds too exciting... this month's apisto shipment is pretty small but i sure hope its a beginning of something big to come this year for everyone else. feel free to drop me a PM if you want to have a small gathering of 3-4 of us (thats all i can fit in the car) to go apisto hunting when the apisto gates open =)

We'll see how else we can help bro Edwin out on this MO after he gets back from overseas.

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## alfredliow316

> alfred, like that I should head to Selangor??


I do drop by SG from time to time. My family is there.  :Very Happy:

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

OK, interest generated successfully. Now hopefully there are enough apistos left, especially in the wild...

bro Joeybabooey - I chop one seat (not the boot).

bro Stormz - tks for the update.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I do not have any space for any more species so I will not be getting either. Good luck with the MO and hopefully we'll have more people picking up apistos soon!

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## markvtec2

> hi guys
> 
> OK, interest generated successfully. Now hopefully there are enough apistos left, especially in the wild...
> 
> bro Joeybabooey - I chop one seat (not the boot).
> 
> bro Stormz - tks for the update.


Count me in. Looking for 2 to 4 pairs apistos for my 2 X1.5 feet 2 tier tank.

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## markvtec2

Those interested in apistogamma can check it out at JZX. They got new shipment in today

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## EdwinTay

hi bro markvtec

You were there? I was the guy buying the baeaschi, norberti, shushupe & oregon. I did not get the strawberry & Pandura. Fish still settling in.

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## markvtec2

> hi bro markvtec
> 
> You were there? I was the guy buying the baeaschi, norberti, shushupe & oregon. I did not get the strawberry & Pandura. Fish still settling in.


Yes bro i am the guy talking to u. The boss did told me u r Edwin Tay. Nice meeting u. Hope can learn more from u. Very new i apisto

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## EdwinTay

Ah..... We should have introduced each other but...I guess we were too busy selecting the best fish. With regards to experience, we all learn by trial & error - in my case, it's more error....

I asked Jia Rong to inform me when the other 3 species ofapistos are ready to be released. He mentioned that perhaps he will release this Saturday. Perhaps we can meet & have a cup of coffee when I next go there. I will bring along a couple of my apisto books, including the "bible" by Romner.

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## stormhawk

I think there were 2 books by Dr Uwe Römer. I didn't get either one, which was a pity. Might drop by JZX soon to see what they have. They seem to have an interesting stock list.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Sounds like an interesting shipment. I dropped by JZX 2 days ago! A day too early I guess. Edwin the shushupe you mentioned is a bitaeniata?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf - Yes, shushupe is a bit.

By the way, as I mentioned, I am waiting for JZX to release another 3 species (I believe they are; Nijssenni, Pantalone & Bit. Maniti). Once I get confirmation, I will be heading there again. I think Jia Rong mentioned that it may be Saturday. If so, do you guys want to meet up to swap apisto stories. As mentioned, I think I will be bring along my Romner book. However, I CANNOT make it this Saturday between 4 to 7.30 p.m.

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## doppelbanddwarf

A. pantalone sounds like an interesting species. Looks rather similar to A. martini. 

I would love to join you guys but I can't make it this weekend. I happen to have both cichlid atlas 1 & 2.

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## stormhawk

A. pantalone definitely looks funky. By the way, what is the prices on these fish at JZX? I can't find their pricing list on their FB page.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Stormhawk & Doppelbanddwarf. A. Pantalone IS Martini. It's like Oregon but with lyretail. I believe the price range is $60-80 per pair.

Bro Doppelbandwarf, the 2 cichlid atlas you have is Aqualog? I have the second book. I also have the Uwe Romer edition 2001/2002.

The problem with apistos is that there are many new species which have not been recorded at the time the books were published.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I believe they are actually separate species.
http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/in...ntalone.10613/

Its the Mergus Cichlid Atlas 1 and 2 by Dr Uwe Romer. Yes many new species have been described since they are published.

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## markvtec2

> Ah..... We should have introduced each other but...I guess we were too busy selecting the best fish. With regards to experience, we all learn by trial & error - in my case, it's more error....
> 
> I asked Jia Rong to inform me when the other 3 species ofapistos are ready to be released. He mentioned that perhaps he will release this Saturday. Perhaps we can meet & have a cup of coffee when I next go there. I will bring along a couple of my apisto books, including the "bible" by Romner.


thought of getting them the next day but u and another bro fast hand and worry unable to get them cos I already bought all the setup ready.

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## EdwinTay

hi markvtec2

Ah yes, I remembered the female - It looks ripe, about to drop. I forgot to charge you recommendation fee.

I was not interested in the pandura, although they are extremely healthy. I was targeting the nijsseni - which looks like the pandura (In fact, I do not even know how to differentiate them). Nijsseni are rarer. Occasionally, you can see panduras in LFS.

Good set-up you have. I suggest that you get some java fern tied to wood for the fish to hide. Polyart (at Clementi) has really good thick ones for $2. When the female is guarding the eggs, she can get quite aggressive. Also, sometimes the males will attack the females.

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## markvtec2

> hi markvtec2
> 
> Ah yes, I remembered the female - It looks ripe, about to drop. I forgot to charge you recommendation fee.
> 
> I was not interested in the pandura, although they are extremely healthy. I was targeting the nijsseni - which looks like the pandura (In fact, I do not even know how to differentiate them). Nijsseni are rarer. Occasionally, you can see panduras in LFS.
> 
> Good set-up you have. I suggest that you get some java fern tied to wood for the fish to hide. Polyart (at Clementi) has really good thick ones for $2. When the female is guarding the eggs, she can get quite aggressive. Also, sometimes the males will attack the females.


Noted thanks. What are you feeding your apisto? I feeding them NLS and FBS

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## EdwinTay

hi markvtec2

I just fed them live tubifex & daphnia (one feeding so far). But, from my previous experience, frozen bloodworms & daphnias are best as they are;(1) convenient, (2) clean, (3) cheaper. I know when you start a hobby, you try to give the best - giving all the specialised food for cichlids (I did that too). But, I have found out that the conventional foods are as good & much cheaper. For dry food, I intend to get the $5 per pack pellets for louhan & pound them to feed. For dry food, what you must be wary of is the ash content - ash is not good. With rgds to the frequency of feeding, I feed them once every 2-3 days. Hobbists recommend regular feeding but I disagree as; (1) in the wild, they do not get regular feedings, (2) I condition the fish to accept irregular feeding just in case I do not have time to feed them. Of course, when you want to condition them for breeding, the quality & regularity of feeding must improve.

For the fries, as eggbearers have smaller fries, it is quite difficult to feed them. Daphnias may be too big & I am too lazy to hatch brime shrimps. I believe the fries accept dry food.

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## alfredliow316

> hi markvtec2
> 
> For the fries, as eggbearers have smaller fries, it is quite difficult to feed them. Daphnias may be too big & I am too lazy to hatch brime shrimps. I believe the fries accept dry food.


can try microworms/walter worms/ vinegar eel/infusoria...

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## doppelbanddwarf

For fry, I raise all my fry on decap brineshrimp. Commonly available here is ANS (the brand) decap bs. Of course live food would like what Alfred mentioned would be great. If I have the time I try to hatch some bbs to feed by around 90% of the time at least I feed them decap bs which the adults take as well.


Paduro males have enlarged membranes on the anterior half of the dorsal fins (something like the spiky dorsals of cacatuoides) while nijsenni males do not (the dorsal might be spiked but overall the dorsal is like a continuous cureve). Also, nijsseni males have a caudal spot which is roundish while it is a triangular one in male panduros.
Nijsseni male:

Picture from the krib.com

Panduro male:

Picture from dwarfcichlid.com


Nijsseni females have a large band like lateral spot, while panduro females have a more variable lateral band and a narrow cheek stripe.
Nijsseni female:

Picture from the krib.com

Panduro female:

Picture from the krib.com

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## markvtec2

Bro Edwin will you still be doing the MO since you aready getting a few pair

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## alfredliow316

Great info, bro chongyu

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## EdwinTay

hi all

Tks bro Chongyu for the great info on the diff between pandura & nijsseni. One question - can they interbreed?

Bro markvtec2 - I have given the list to JZX, let's see what they can do first. The pricing for this batch seems pretty ok.

Some of the LFS do occasionally bring in I believe from Malaysia. I have seen borelli, vijieta, caca orange, caca triple red, panduro.

The problem with mass order, I am told, is that we really have to get huge quantities of similar fish (something in the region of a few thousand dollars worth) before anyone is willing to ship. I understand that Apistoworld HK does cater for smaller quantities but I have yet to try. Also, I have not tried Aquabid.

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## stormhawk

To feed these apisto fry, live "boon" from the LFS will do. Just sieve it, they will come in all sorts of sizes, perfect for cichlid fry. You must sieve them from their water and rinse the "boon" with your tank water. They are a great food for apisto fry, no hassle of hatching BBS eggs etc. Give the fry a mix of foods both live and dry. I've read of people who raised their fry on Hikari First Bites. Another thing to consider is frozen Cyclop-eeze. If you get the freeze-dried version, rehydrate a small amount of the Cyclop-eeze in a cup of water. Swish it around to get the stuff mixed in, then squirt into the tank with a turkey baster or syringe. The fry should attack it.

The seller that I got a pair of "wilhelmi" from in the past, fed his fry with ADA AP-1. He said he had good results with it.

@EdwinTay,

I believe there are hybrids between nijsseni and panduro. They are after all, from the same nijsseni-group.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I have no idea whether they can interbreed. More often than not, hybrids among apistos are unable to reproduce further. An example is hybrid between Apisto. sp tefe and Apisto agassizii. 
You acn look at the thread here:
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=12&t=5525

Furthermore, in my humble opinion I think they are already great fishes and I see no reason to produce hybrids if I were to have both species.

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## joopsg

> hi markvtec2
> 
> Ah yes, I remembered the female - It looks ripe, about to drop. I forgot to charge you recommendation fee.
> 
> I was not interested in the pandura, although they are extremely healthy. I was targeting the nijsseni - which looks like the pandura (In fact, I do not even know how to differentiate them). Nijsseni are rarer. Occasionally, you can see panduras in LFS.
> 
> Good set-up you have. I suggest that you get some java fern tied to wood for the fish to hide. Polyart (at Clementi) has really good thick ones for $2. When the female is guarding the eggs, she can get quite aggressive. Also, sometimes the males will attack the females.


Hi guys, just want check whether this still exist. For Panduro, the end of the caudal fin should be orange. for Njisenni, it will be yellow. That is what i was told when I start. just want to share some information.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Stormhawk - looks like you are one experienced fish keeper. I have kept all kinds of tropical fishes for many years. I notice that when one is beginning, one tends to try to get the best -e.g. specialised food. However, over the years, I have found out that sometimes, the best alternatives are cheaper. For instance, for dry food, I have tried the luohan type pellets pounded into bits - it works fine - just be wary of the ash content. I have also found frozen bloodworms & daphnias to be cheaper, more convenient & cleaner than live tubifex, daphnia & brime shrimps. Even for planted tank, I have found that those common plants do not need co2. The key element to their success is plenty of light. Even for aeration, I bought a timer & set it for alternative hour on - saves electricity & does not affect the fish.

bro doppelbandwarf - I thought tefe is a variant of aga? For different but related species of apistos, I am not sure as I have not tried to breed them. However, based on other animals, interspecies breeding are mostly either not possible or their offsprings are mules. Related to this, there is a species of apistos called steel blue. If you look at all apisto literature, they say it originates from Singapore. Some comments mention that steel blue is a hybrid of borelli & another species.

bro joopsg - from my experience, it's hard to tell via slight difference in colour of fin. Your question "check whether this still exists" I presume refers to whether the panduros & nijssenis are still available. Yes they still are. The males are large & the females look like they are ready to drop.

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## doppelbanddwarf

In the thread, Apistogramma agassizii "tefe" is an agassizii from the locality tefe while Apistogramma sp. "tefe" refers to a separate species which is undescribed but closely related to the agassizii and can be found together in the locality too. It is found that hybrids between these 2 species lead to deformities such as irregular scales and often infertility in the next generation as well as a weaker fish more susceptible to diseases. All this information I read from threads such as the one above. Not my personal experience. Yup the 'steel blue' is often mentioned to be from the far east and Singapore and till date no one has concrete information where this fish originated from. In this case the fish is able to reproduce well.

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## stormhawk

@Edwin,

Just sharing my own experiences with raising fry. I did try decapsulated brine shrimp eggs before, but the fry seem to react more to live food so I just use "boon" and tubifex. If I had the Artemio hatchery set from JBL, I would gladly hatch my own BBS, but since they don't have this item in Singapore, I figure, why bother when "boon" is readily available on most days. 50 cent bag lasts me for 2-3 days for a small batch of fry, as long as I constantly remove the dead ones, which usually settle at the bottom of the container. Hopefully during the coming Aquarama, the JBL booth might have it.

On Steel Blue, I had this long time ago. The specimens back then were in superb shape and bred like rabbits. Now, they are usually sold with sunken bellies etc, so they're doomed to die most of the time. Getting a female in a batch of Steel Blue can be hard too. This was the very first apisto I ever bred. The suspected crossing involved one of the regani-group species, and probably within the same group, not including A. borelli. Their body form has no hint of borelli. They are aggressive but the male in breeding condition is splendid. See this thread by Benny:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...rid-Steel-Blue

The female looks similar because their head also has the blue marking. I would keep it again if I could find a good pair, but unfortunately, whenever I see it at C328 or another LFS, they are in bad shape.  :Sad:

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## SCOPE

Better not feed tubifex, surely the bacteria will affect the apisto later resulting in possible boating

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## doppelbanddwarf

I agree with Joe regarding tubifex. I find that even the hardiest species of apistos are extremely susceptible to internal bacteria from feeding tubifex.

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## benjamin216

The strawberry only left 1 female the last I heard.

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## stormhawk

Bloat occurs even with dry food. Even Malawi cichlids develop bloat due to their diet. Key thing with tubifex is the freshness. Most of the time they are not kept clean at the stores and some people don't rinse them well enough back at home with aquarium water prior to feeding. When fed in moderation, it is a great food to build up the mass of the fry and adults. Any kind of food, be it dry, frozen or live, comes with risks from introduced pathogens. It is how we store the food and how we prepare certain foods that matters. As with all fish, a variety of food is always better.

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## EdwinTay

Agreed with bro Stormhawk. But, to play safe, frozen bloodworms & daphnia. For live tubifex, I usually rinse them then soak for 1-2 hours in M. Blue, then feed. So far, this method works. And, although we all like to "protect" our fishes as much as possible, I believe sometimes, you have to let them be in not-so-pristine conditions so that they develop some kind of immunity. I think it's like, you cannot totally insulate yr kid for the various virus & bacteria - otherwise they will not develop immunity.

Generally, I find feeding the adults no problem. But, be careful of feeding dry pellets which are too big - I had a serious case of bloat with my guppies when the stomachs were extended & just could not subside - no disease. As for the fries, because apistos are egg-layers,they tend to be small. Sometimes, daphnia is too big. And, I find it a hassle to hatch bbs. When I was keeping bettas, I used to culture microworms but the whole house stinks...so I am banned from ever keeping microworms.

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## stormhawk

Edwin, there's a way to culture microworms, minus the stink. I used those plastic containers from hardware shop like SKP etc. Made a small hole at the top with a soldering iron then tape over the hole with Micropore tape. You can't smell the culture that way. Problem with microworm is that the culture explodes very fast in our climate. If you keep the container in a cooler spot they don't reproduce so fast. However, microworm is not very nutritious for fry in the long run so the introduction to BBS and Daphnia after about 2-3 days is a must or else their growth might be stunted.

For variety, can feed with bananaworm and walterworms too. They are related to the microworm but different in size, with bananaworms being the smallest of the 3 types. Vinegar eels are another option but the difficulty is in the harvesting unlike micro/banana/walter worms. However, once you get the hang of it, vinegar eels are excellent food for smaller fry since they disperse throughout the water column, unlike the other 3 worms that sink to the bottom and only crawl around there.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Personally, I would not feed food soaked in medication to fishes unless fishes are sick. Also personally I find that even after rinsing the tubifex, there are still very high chances of apistos being infected by internal bacteria. Often their bellies become sunken and their poo wil be white and stringy. Perhaps I did not rinse them well enough but I rather not take my chances.

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## stormhawk

http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...rlicGuard.html

Found this product at C328. I haven't tried it but online reviews seem good. Might be worthwhile for those who have apistos that might have intestinal issues.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I've tried rinsing tubifex and actually soaking them in the seachem garlic guard in the past. Other than rinsing with aquarium water and picking out only the live ones, are there any precautions to take? Often I find that the tubifex start to develop white rotting patches and these I would definitely avoid feeding. 

Personally I find that once an apisto shows obvious signs of intestinal issues it is often too late. I've only managed to get a wild baenschi male to recover after coaxing it to take NLS Thera A pellets which also has a generous amount of garlic.

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## stormhawk

Not much else you can do with Tubifex. They tend to die off real quick if they are not kept cool. I store mine for a day at most, rinsing the container out several times to remove any dead ones but they seldom last longer than 2 days max. In the past, some people would keep them in ketapang tea, or leave a piece of old ketapang leaf in their container. Seems to keep them alive a little longer. I only add water that is just enough to keep them moist. Removing the gray gunk that they produce along with any other dead bits helps. I get mine fresh from the LFS once every 3 days or so, along with live Moina, since I have some killifish fry growing out at the moment.

If you have a Satellite box available, leaving the Tubifex in there with a constant stream of water can keep them alive for days. I would squirt a small amount into some of my fry boxes and they'd last for at least 3 days before I needed to feed them again. As long as there is detritus and some algae in the container, the worms will stay alive and you can feed the fish as and when required. Any dead ones will just float to the top so removal with a small net is easy.

With dry and frozen foods, it can be a problem where intestinal issues are concerned. Dry foods spoil real fast in our climate, even with a desiccant in the bag or container. Frozen food packs, once opened, should not be used past 2 weeks or so, especially if they are repeatedly thawed. With FBW, if the cubes turn dark, don't use them. I only use the cubes where the worms still look bright red. Once I fed my fish with a dark shrunken cube because I was too lazy to buy a new slab. Ended up with several dead fish in my community tank.  :Embarassed:

----------


## EdwinTay

hi guys

Any of you want to meet up this Saturday or Sunday? I am OK with rgds to time & place - but preferably this Saturday around 2.30 p.m., around Serangoon North.

bro Stormhawk - I did use the tauhuay plastic containers - the problem is that you still have to poke hole to let them breathe - and the smell escapes. And, due to the explosion of culture, I ended up with around 10 plastic tubs. It was a straight choice between 10 tubs of microworms or wife - and my wife is prettier & less smelly

----------


## stormhawk

If you poke the hole and tape it over with Micropore, then place it in a well-ventilated area, you won't notice the smell. I never kept more than 2 tubs at any one time. They start smelling like bad beer very fast, after a week or two max. I once let a culture go bad, with mold and fungus. Funny thing was, the worms survived on a small patch of the media.  :Laughing:

----------


## joopsg

As for me, choice of live feed will be Blood worms, brine shrimps. I kept the worms in the net, those live and healthy are able to wiggle their way out. Therefore usually will be 2 tau huay container to alternate. Manage to condition Apistogramma to spawn every 2 weeks. if live feed not available, starve them for a day or use frozen.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

----------


## SCOPE

Currently, i maintained all my 20+ tanks of apisto collection feeding on brine shrimps and tetra bits mainly. 
i believe if you keep a number of tanks, using specially design brine shrimp hatchet system should not be difficult to manage for brine shrimp feeding

----------


## joeybabooey

> hi guys
> 
> Any of you want to meet up this Saturday or Sunday? I am OK with rgds to time & place - but preferably this Saturday around 2.30 p.m., around Serangoon North.



Weekend days for me quite hard for now because of work, bro Edwin. I'll PM you my contact number in a bit. Easier to discuss on fishy adventures.

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro can u send me Aqua one fish shop address pls...

----------


## benjamin216

> Last week when I called AquaOne, they said no more Apistos for them for now. C328 doesn't bring in apisto lately as well.
> JZX is just waiting for their apistogramma order to come in hopefully next week. This includes Ap. Fresa as well which Im also waiting to get females for my lonesome male. Anyone wants to let go a Female Fresa (Strawberry) let me know! 
> 
> Lets see how this MO will progress, I might be getting the Maulbruter is its WC. 
> 
> cheers



Interested? People lose their females, I lose my male -.-

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Currently, i maintained all my 20+ tanks of apisto collection feeding on brine shrimps and tetra bits mainly. 
> i believe if you keep a number of tanks, using specially design brine shrimp hatchet system should not be difficult to manage for brine shrimp feeding


hi bro.... you keep alot apisto, mind to tell me where you get them??? i looking for Diplotaenia, Elizabethae, Mendenzi, Miua, Peixoto, Bitaeniata,Agassizi Tefe Cacadora, Paucisquamis, N. Adoketa

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## Misery

Hey guys, glad to have logged in again after so long. Been busy with work and now I'm back hunting for Apisto again. 
Really interested in this MO. 

Cheers!


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Hey guys, glad to have logged in again after so long. Been busy with work and now I'm back hunting for Apisto again. 
> Really interested in this MO. 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> Misery.


Did you know where can find Apisto?

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

wow...more & more brothers interested. For your info, I just went fish farm visiting (Mainland, Seaview etc.) - no luck. I understand that someone has already said that AquaOne does not carry apistos for the time being. I have put the word out to various fish shops of the interest in apistos. Unfortunately, it looks like it's very difficult to source nowadays.

----------


## markvtec2

> hi guys
> 
> wow...more & more brothers interested. For your info, I just went fish farm visiting (Mainland, Seaview etc.) - no luck. I understand that someone has already said that AquaOne does not carry apistos for the time being. I have put the word out to various fish shops of the interest in apistos. Unfortunately, it looks like it's very difficult to source nowadays.


Hi Edwin how is ur new purchases doing? Yesterday i separate my male away from the female carrying some fries. How long should the fries stay with the mother?

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## EdwinTay

hi Markvtec2

Thanks for asking. My apistos are doing fine. But I can't see them...haha. The reason is that I put them in GEX S tanks together with thick java ferm on wood ($2 each at Polyart). Occasionally, when I put food out, I will see them. If you recollect, I bought Norberti, Bit. Shushupe, Oregon & Pantalone. This batch is a little weird as I found that the females are much bigger than the males.

bro Markvtec2, you bought the Pandurini right? From my limited experience, as long as there is enough cover for the fries to hide, you can put BOTH parents right up to when the fries are grown up.

----------


## markvtec2

> hi Markvtec2
> 
> Thanks for asking. My apistos are doing fine. But I can't see them...haha. The reason is that I put them in GEX S tanks together with thick java ferm on wood ($2 each at Polyart). Occasionally, when I put food out, I will see them. If you recollect, I bought Norberti, Bit. Shushupe, Oregon & Pantalone. This batch is a little weird as I found that the females are much bigger than the males.
> 
> bro Markvtec2, you bought the Pandurini right? From my limited experience, as long as there is enough cover for the fries to hide, you can put BOTH parents right up to when the fries are grown up.


Thanks bro Edwin. I remove the male to another tank. Currently female with fries. Start feeding a bit of decap bbs. Saw only 15 to 20 fries.

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## doppelbanddwarf

Since you have removed the male. most probably you can keep the fry with the female til they are quite old. 
What I normally do is try to remove the fry to those Satellite external breeding traps when they are about 2 weeks old.

----------


## SCOPE

i am some females raised the fires up to 1 month plus... if you keep the tank dark or cover up the glass front with newspaper etc to avoid disturbance / shock to the female

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## doppelbanddwarf

Interestingly, I've some older fry which are roughly older than 1 month and around 1cm in size following another female which have bred and are leading much younger fry around. This new breeding female had displaced the first smaller female from her breeding cave and bred with the dominant male. I only managed to net out 2 fry from the larger batch previously and thought I had lost the rest of the batch but saw the larger fry following the female these few days.

----------


## SCOPE

Actually depends on individual females....some are more tolerance...can raise up to 2 batches, they might just chase away the bigger batch or fries...some case treat the bigger fries as threat and kill them

----------


## fhan

Hi all,

Kindly ask if never removed the male, or kept with parents, 
How long can i keep babies in parent tank?

Thanks

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

Like bro SCOPE mentioned it is different for different females. I remember a forumer here had a a breeding pair of Apistogramma baenschi along with several batches of fry, some of which were full adults and all of them living in a single 3ft. And the pair continued to breed.

----------


## fhan

Thank you chongyu,

I have noberti from jzx breeding, have not seen the babies, but dont think wanna take the male out, 

Both parents seem protecting the cave, and keep on attacking the ottos,

Thanks

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

Congrats. Its fine not to take the male but do watch out for any injuries as some females are really aggressive. If the male is forced to a top corner its best to remove. Also if the pair does breed again they might or might not attack the previous batch.

----------


## fhan

Thank you,

I think the fries gone by now, probably best next time remove the male.

Or probably the eggs never hatched since begining, norberty needs very low ph right?

I still have another pair which not yet bonded.

----------


## Misery

My hongsloi2 female was very aggressive when spawning, I was away for a few days due to work and came home to see a dead male floating. 

Lesson learnt: Always remove the male, since Apisto are hard to get in Singapore. 

Now I'm stuck with 1 old hongsloi2 female, and her last batch of fry of 14 only have 1 male. 


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## Misery

Hi guys, I was wondering if this http://aquaticclarity.com/in-stock-fish could be of any use to expedite the mass order if there is going to be any.


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## mer2623

Bro misery, are you keen on selling your old female hongsloi 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

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## vic_tan0911

> Hi guys, I was wondering if this http://aquaticclarity.com/in-stock-fish could be of any use to expedite the mass order if there is going to be any.
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> Misery.


hi..bro may i know this seller from singapore?

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## EdwinTay

hi All

bro vic_tan0911, aquaticclarity is in the US.

Actually, as I mentioned before, if bros can indicate their interest in this thread, what I propose to do is this;
1) I have already talked to some friendly LFH & registered my interest in Hongsloi, Hoignei etc. & also given them some indicative pricing
2) collate indication of interest to present to LFH (they need quantity to order)
3) if it's OK, bros should contact the LFH directly to place orders

After examining all options, I find the above arrangement the best. The direct order method has 3 huge hurdles; (1) must order in quantity (I am told above $5k & probably limited types of species, (2) survival rate, (3) may require some kind of licence

----------


## EdwinTay

hi All

bro vic_tan0911, aquaticclarity is in the US.

Actually, as I mentioned before, if bros can indicate their interest in this thread, what I propose to do is this;
1) I have already talked to some friendly LFH & registered my interest in Hongsloi, Hoignei etc. & also given them some indicative pricing
2) collate indication of interest to present to LFH (they need quantity to order)
3) if it's OK, bros should contact the LFH directly to place orders

After examining all options, I find the above arrangement the best. The direct order method has 3 huge hurdles; (1) must order in quantity (I am told above $5k & probably limited types of species, (2) survival rate, (3) may require some kind of licence

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## sen_jie

> hi bro.... you keep alot apisto, mind to tell me where you get them??? i looking for Diplotaenia, Elizabethae, Mendenzi, Miua, Peixoto, Bitaeniata,Agassizi Tefe Cacadora, Paucisquamis, N. Adoketa


Great to see movement on Apistogramma thread again

My Menti red Bit which was bought from JZX last year finally spawn, but as i was oversea for a few days, the fries greatly reduce to around 8 piece. If you keen we can work out something in 1 or 2 months time  :Smile:

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## benjamin216

Every apisto nuts should check this out, with that pricing, should be captive bred though.

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=508418

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## doppelbanddwarf

Just saw the list too. Bro Edwin since you prefer the broad body species you should take a look at the Apistogramma megaptera and the Apistogramma sp. Diamond fac,

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## Misery

Great sharing brother Benjamin216


Regards, 
Misery.

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

Tks, bro Benjamin - just sms Stones - they say got but, I went to the Sin Ming shop on Thursday - nothing

bro Doppelbanddwarf - is Megaptera Breitbinden? Yes, I think I used to have Diamond. I must not get too excited - still need space for Hongsloi 2, Hongsloi Rotstrich, Hiognei, Atalhualpha & Barlowi

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## doppelbanddwarf

I actually thought that it was breitbinden too but after googling, it is actually a closely related species.
http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/in...aven-ct.12721/
It seems that the typical Apistogramma sp "breitbinden" is yet to be described. 

I actually dropped by on Stones last Tuesday thinking that was the stocklist too! No signs of any small fishes I thought they were all sold out.  :Razz:  I also just realised it is actually a preorder list. Try calling ANgus to enquire/order.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbandwarf.

With rgds to Stones, have to pre-order. I have already registered my interest - 5 minutes ago.....

All bros, please register yr interest asap. Angus sms that once he collates, he orders & the fish will arrive next Tuesday.

Rats...I think I just over-ordered....as usual.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I've actually smsed him to enquire about the agassizii var gold but no reply yet. What species did you order?

----------


## Misery

I already placed my orders, but no replies yet. hmm.. 


Regards, 
Misery.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf

You should ask me What species did you NOT order...haha.

Anyway, I sms him my orders & I think he is collating. He did reply me, saying that he needs to double confirm with his supplier first. But I think must pay in advance. The part I don't really understand is that he mentioned that once everything is confirmed, the fish will arrive next Tuesday - I thought that was rather quick.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf

You should ask me What species did you NOT order...haha.

Anyway, I sms him my orders & I think he is collating. He did reply me, saying that he needs to double confirm with his supplier first. But I think must pay in advance. The part I don't really understand is that he mentioned that once everything is confirmed, the fish will arrive next Tuesday - I thought that was rather quick.

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## benjamin216

Hi bros. I have purchased from Angus quite a few times in this manner. I believe it's a weekly thing, so I would advise you guys to THINK CAREFULLY before you place your order. You could always have another week if you can't make this week's shipment. It is not a one off preorder

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Benjamin216

Thanks for the heads-up. How is the reliability in terms of whether the fish is actually ordered, the condition of the fish, what will happen if the fish (is claimed) to have died? I do not mind the wait. But, I don't think it's right if the commonly acceptable sales & purchase conditions for any goods & services are violated. I understand that the seller is taking risks but, that's what business is all about. And, I think the mark-up should be more than enough to compensate for the risk.

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## benjamin216

As he stated, any death on arrival will be refunded. Fishes are generally in good health as I believe they are conditioned prior to shipping. But I believe he'll ask for you to collect them on the day of arrival itself or ASAP. Haha from what I know of Angus, there is nothing more he cares about than the reputation of his shop. Very responsible shopkeeper from the times I dealt with him.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Benjamin216

That's great to hear. Nothing pisses me off than an irresponsible seller.

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## vic_tan0911

> As he stated, any death on arrival will be refunded. Fishes are generally in good health as I believe they are conditioned prior to shipping. But I believe he'll ask for you to collect them on the day of arrival itself or ASAP. Haha from what I know of Angus, there is nothing more he cares about than the reputation of his shop. Very responsible shopkeeper from the times I dealt with him.


bro... may i know stone aquarium have pos to malaysia?

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## benjamin216

Stones Aquarium does export, so he may send over. But these details and regulations are best discussed with him personally. The Adoketa are so well priced, anyone getting them?

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## vic_tan0911

i interest adoketa, but the colour seem light..

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## stormhawk

Color comparison of the fish at the LFS and in a nicely decorated tank at home is not advisable. The fish in the picture on their blog is just showing fright coloration. With proper conditioning and over a dark substrate, the fish will begin to show their actual coloration. What is important is their vitality and that they should be actively foraging. I can see in the pic that they are at least in healthy condition with a bulky body. For the price listed, that is quite cheap IMO.

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## Misery

Who's picking up their fishes tomorrow after 6pm at Stones? 


Regards, 
Misery.

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## EdwinTay

Me...but I have to be at Polyart ard 6 pm. So shold reach Stones ard 7.45.

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## mer2623

Can i still buy even if i did not order earlier?

regards
Mer

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## fhan

Kindly ask what u did order bro Edwin?

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

Angus, hope you are reading this - Thanks, you have found a new repeat customer (subject to availability of tank space in my house which...is subject to permission from wife...which is subject to me treating her a little better than my apistos).

bro mer2623 - Stones only accepts pre-order apistos for now. He says he posts indicative order list almost every week. I have asked him to post in AQ for the benefit of all. Reminder... to be fair to him, we have to at least give him some token deposit.

bro fhan - I got mamore (2 pairs), caca orange (2 pairs), megaptera spangle (1 pair). Those which I asked for but did not arrive are; caca triple red, sp. diamond, wilhelmi.

...those that I an actively looking for are; Hongsloi 2, Hongsloi Gold, Hoignei, Atahualpha (Sunset), Barlowi, Huascar (Sunrise). Angus...reminder here.....

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## leonard6july

I stopped by Stones yesterday and realized from speaking to Angus that a bunch of guys from this forum are going to collect orders in the evening.

How about posting pics of the loot? :Evil:  To poison the rest of the followers of this thread.......

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## benjamin216

Edwin, that's what I thought after the first time I ordered from Angus. I'm getting the Adoketa, anyone ordering again?  :Very Happy:

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## joopsg

Indeed it will be very venomous if you guys post photos. I really want to keep adoketa.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk HD

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

Very glad the apistos interest is back. 

My 18-tank set-up is in full swing - fish are relatively stable. The only problem, I can't find my fish....Most of my tanks are the Gex S size. For substrate, I put black ada soil. Inside the tanks, I put 1 cave & 2 java fern-tied-to-wood, some tanks even have hornwort. I stacked them in 5 shelves but, with the narrower side facing out. So, most of the time, cannot see the fish..haha. The only time I get to see them is when I feed them. I figured I should give them another 2-3 weeks to settle down before they are less shy. I will try to post some photos asap.

Benjamin - great to have met you. I wanted the adokata too but, due to the size of my tanks, size of fish & the aggressive nature of the fish AND, the need to reserve some tanks for more apistos, I have to pass. There are some of the other latacara & nanacara which I am relative keen on - not the anomala & the commonly-available "Sheepheads".

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## marle

guys you can get apistos from bro scope also. just got a pair of Apisto. Diplotaenia from him!  :Grin:

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## fhan

Bro Edwin,

Nice collection you have, good for you can have so many, so envy

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## EdwinTay

hi All

bro Marle - ah so...that was you.

bro fhan - thanks, will try to post photos asap. But, I think I got a problem - I am an apisto hoarder. I just got a pair each of elizabethae & uaupesi from Scope. The uaupesi are the best I have seen in real life. As I mentioned before, I prefer the broad body type such as Hongsloi. However, sometimes cannot pass on the long body type - I am a sucker for finnage.

At this juncture, if you guys don't mind, I would like to make some suggestions to enhance apistos keeping & keep it fun (afterall that's what hobbies are for). I think we have to treat each other fairly, especially in relation to buying & selling. Whether the seller is commercial or not, they do take risks (as apistos are had to come by & not popular). So i believe that buyers should honour their commitments to the sellers. i know us buyers always look for the best (i.e. cheapest) deals. But, once committed to seller, buyers should honour. For sellers, they should not short change buyers (e.g. sick fish) & ensure they have reliable sources of fish. For instance, I have been trying to generate mass order but, after talking to a few people, I find that the best way is to do it via LFS. So, I have talked to some friendly LFS & given them my interest list, suggested pricing & estimated total demand. This should enable them to do their own maths & benefit all apistos keepers.

I look forward to more interest in apistos & perhaps share "trade secrets" & swap stories online or at some informal kopi sessions. In my case, after 2 consecutive weekends of farm tours with my betta-mad friend, I found TWO rather old & tired looking cacas at a Pasir Ris farm (forgot the name but it looks like a smaller version of Seaview). It is rather ironic as my interest interest in apistos started years ago when I bought a similar looking caca for $7 at an AMK market stall.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I picked up five adoketas yesterday. The fishes were in good condition. A pity I was one of the last to collect I think didn't get to see any of the apistogrammas the rest ordered. I was going to get a pair of paciqamis from bro scope too but too bad they were not in stable condition.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro doppelbanddwarf

I was at Stones the first evening. Very amusing to see a few grown-ups staring at small fishes trying to determine sex....Like a Peep Show....I think the fishes also shy...so many eyes looking....no wonder no colour

BTW, now I am aiming for the mouthbrooder complex - Barlowi, sp. Diamond & Kelleri. The trouble is that it's hard to differentiate.

I am wondering if it is possible to cross-breed closely-related species. I myself will never do that but, I am preparing for accidents & also sometimes, supplier mix-up.

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

By the time I reached yesterday even Angus had left. Edwin did you manage to enquire about the source of the apistos, as in are all the species on the list are farm bred etc. Also I'm curious as to the condition of the fishes when you collected. Is it hard to differentiate males and females. 

I think there have been instances of hybridising, for example someone from Thailand has posted about hybridising between two closely related species on apistogramma.com. So it's entirely possible. With so many species on your hand you might want to raise the fry of different separately when they start breeding or only mix fry of species with easily distinguished features.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf

Condition of fishes (2 pairs mamore, 2 pairs caca orange, 1 pair megaptera spangle) are good. I put my cacas in my small office tanks - just took a look at them & they are doing great. Fish shape also OK. Not much problem sexing. Angus mentioned that they are Taiwan fish but I don't think he knows the exact source. My guess is that caca & mamore are farm-bred. The megaptera (which I still believe is breitbinden or broadband) - I am not sure. Angus is new to apistos so bro Misery & me gave him some "tips". Told him to make sure he knows the ph. Apparently, his ph is 7.2+. One of the biggest problem is ph shock. Luckily I asked - Bro Misery (ph below 5), you owe me...haha.....My ph is usually ard 6 to 6.5. If I want to condition to breed, I will lower.

With rgds to hybridising, I think it usually happens if we "force" them. Case to point : put single male of sub-species A with single female of sub-species B together. I think if you put a group of mixed sex, the two sub-species will naturally separately pair off with their own kind.

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## mer2623

Hi guys, mind pm me number of bro scope...

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## doppelbanddwarf

I actually accidentally replied to the auto generated notification email using my phone.  :Embarassed: 
As mentioned from earlier the megatepera is a separate species previously known as cf. breitbinden while the species know as breitbinden has not been described. That's what I read as a hobbyist and I guess we can only be sure when he real experts have examined and described the breitbinden. Until then it is best to keep them separate and not interbreed. 
As for the adoketas I ordered they were active and started chasing tetras once I introduced them to the tank, even though I was told 3 had perished before I collected. Also thumbs up for Angus for the refund on the spot for perished fish.

----------


## alfredliow316

> guys you can get apistos from bro scope also. just got a pair of Apisto. Diplotaenia from him!


LIKE!  :Very Happy:   :Well done:

----------


## alfredliow316

chongyu,

What's the sizes of the adoketas?

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

Roughly 5cm head to tail as stated in the order thread. I would say still semi adults for adoketas.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Doppelbanddwarf - In the first Romer book, Sp. Breitbinden is also known as broadband. The megaptera sure looks like breitbinden, But then, the sp. Diamond & Kelleri also sure looks like Barlowi...shucks!!!! A per yr suggestion, I play safe by putting the breitbinden separate from the megaptera spangle.

Actually, I am wondering how the "experts" distinguish ..do they do DNA testing? In an episode of National Geographic, they found that there were at least two species of electric eels (even though they look similar). The researcher differentiate by comparing their electric pulses.

mer2623, scope is on this forum. I think he will pm you when appropriate.

I second bro Doppelbanddwarf's kudos for Angus. Perhaps he could have given more value added by cooking the dead adokata to let us taste....lol

----------


## Misery

Still waiting for bro Edwin to post some pictures of his new collection.. 


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## EdwinTay

Rats...bro Misery...add pressure. Okay, okay, I try hopefully by next Friday - need to clean tanks a bit first - keep getting algae.

Just took a look at the elizabethae & uaupesi I got from Scope. They are doing very well....Really great fishes...no joke. But...must resist temptation to get more long body fishes to reserve space for my favourites.

By the way, can anyone confirm with me that Apisto. Huascar is also known as Sunrise? And, it is related to Atahualpha a.k.a. Sunset?

----------


## Misery

Let me start the ball rolling.. Some snapshots of my humble collection.. 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366324800.462481.jpg 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366324893.311045.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1366324911.091844.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1366324939.525110.jpg

All my tanks have algae 😂 left the lights on for 2 days.. And I have bad photography skills.. 



Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

I used to keep apisto few yrs back.. now it's so hard to find apisto in lfs

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## EdwinTay

bro Misery - swee...bagus.... Also, you add more pressure for me to show face (my apistos' face) ....

bro Venom - keep coming back to this forum in Aquaticquotient - as we increase the interest in apistos, more lfs will carry - I am sure. It's a matter of demand and supply. Perhaps you can indicate here what species you are interested in. Please read my earlier postings to understand why this is important.

----------


## Misery

Haha! No pressure bro Edwin, my collection is smaller than yours! 



Regards, 
Misery.

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## venom

I looking for apistogramma trifasciata.. had order from stones waiting for their confirmation

----------


## benjamin216

Anyone ordered from last week's pre order?

----------


## Misery

I'll order first week may I guess, Currently out station! 

I hope my maid don't overfeed my fishes :/


Regards, 
Misery.

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## alfredliow316

Misery, 

How long will you be away? Probably no need to feed if it's just for a week.

----------


## Misery

Currently in Perak right now, should be back by end of the month, a week should be okay, but It's about 2 weeks for me. 

Btw, Alfred, I read that you're in cheras, care to share where you get that beautiful apisto?  :Very Happy: 


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi benjamin216 - my answer to yr question...YES, a lot

On a more serious note, I wonder if Stones' supplier does requests?

----------


## alfredliow316

Misery, got them from Singapore and Taiwan.

If I were you, I'll just feed once on the first weekend if you need to away for 2 weeks. And you'll probably need to 'prepack' the fish food into the amount you wish to feed for each tank. 

The last time I asked my maid to feed my fishes, she threw in so much food until my entire OhF was filled with fish food. She told me later that the fishes look very hungry because their mouth kept gulping nonstop.  :Sad:

----------


## mobile2007

page 8 liao no one wanted to post some nice photos to show off their new pet fishes???

----------


## EdwinTay

bro mobile2007 - coming, coming......

----------


## stormhawk

For all the apisto nuts out there:

Apistogramma sp. "Breitbinden" *NEW!* 
Apistogramma agassizii ''Super Red"*NEW!* 
Apistogramma agassizi "Fire red"*NEW!* 
Bitaeniata "Shushupe" "Rio Ampiyacu"
Norberti "Rio Tahuayo"

At JZX. Not sure if they're still there, got this from their April stock list on AF.

----------


## Misery

Thanks for the share bro stormhawk!


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## mer2623

I think only the Ap. Breitbinden and Adoketa was left because went there a week ago.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi All

Still available at JZX as of Thursday

Adoketa
Bit. Shushupe
Bit. Maniti
Breitbinden
Norberti
and...2 unidentified females which came in with the baeaschi

----------


## venom

can't wait for my order to be confirm!!

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro EdwinTay 
may i know adoketa how much JZX selling?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro vic_tan0911 - I think the adoketa at JZX is $300 per pair.

----------


## Misery

Bro Edwin, where's your photos!?
And what species of Apisto did you not ordered? 


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## vic_tan0911

wah... so expensive hor.....
no enuff money to buy... forgot it ba

----------


## EdwinTay

bro Misery - My tanks too dark. One feet gex tank with 2 java fern tied to wood + cave + ada soil & with the narrow side facing outwards. Now trying to figure out how to arrange to have better view. The good point - my apistos are doing real well (although not expecting yet).

bro vic_tan0911 - there are cheaper alternatives. PM me yr contact number.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Misery - Forgot to add - I welcomed Trifasciata, Wilhelmi & Hoignei to my humble abode this evening.

----------


## Misery

My hongsloi2 swimming with another batch of fries 😏


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Misery

Congrats.

more pressure from you...now I have to give baby bonus to my apistos....

----------


## sen_jie

not from Stone shippment. Just one of my permant resident at home


and his wife


and his neighbours are a bunch of cuties!

----------


## Misery

Such a lovely pair 😍

I counted 8 fries earlier. Hopefully there's more in the cave!


Regards, 
Misery.

----------


## sen_jie

can share my 1.5 years old mohawk bad ***? (WC Bit menti red from JZX)

----------


## genes

Bits male always looks so handsome.

----------


## venom

guys,

i always love to keep deep blueish apisto but it is not easy to find.

anyway yesterday i saw c328 selling a pair for panduro.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro sen_jie

Nice. Is it Maniti? If so, and if you don't have a female, JZX has got some.

----------


## marle

senjie, your bitae male looks damn fierce!

----------


## Misery

A combination of sexy and fierce. One of my personal favourite. 

What other gems you keeping sen?

----------


## sen_jie

> senjie, your bitae male looks damn fierce!


Hi Marle, 

hum... he looks fierce only but get henpeck by his mistress who is 1/2 his size


Hi Misery,

i have a small collection only.

for apistogramma,i got a pair of barlowi, which i think the female is a sneaker male.

Now jus waiting for my fries to grow up then i can dump them over to my community tank to grow up together, before i preorder some fishes from Stone hahaha

----------


## marle

My petite Diplotaenia Female.. The pair lives harmoniously with yamatos and snails

----------


## sen_jie

Hi Marle.

nice and rare fish you got on hand. its kinda hard to get a pair of Dip nowadays. Have yours spawn?

----------


## venom

may I ask. if having 3ft planted tank.. we can keep how many pairs of apisto in the tank?

----------


## mer2623

Currently, i keep on my 3ft planted tank pair of A. alenquer and A. eremnopyge..both spawn before and saw some fries, but now cant see some baby fish.  :Sad:

----------


## sen_jie

> may I ask. if having 3ft planted tank.. we can keep how many pairs of apisto in the tank?


 
i will say depend on how planted it is?

and is your aim to breed it? or just rearing them?

If your plan is to breed, then i suggest just 1 pair is good.

if just to rear, then i suggest get all males. you can easily go up to 6 to 7 piece (Depending on how forested, your planted tank is)

----------


## mobile2007

Hi all, 

Just a check with those who ordered from Stone aquarium, are all the apistos listed in the pre-order lists available ?

----------


## venom

they are not available in stones. 
you will need to message angus the fish and quantity that you want so he will do shipment for you.

----------


## mobile2007

thanks venom. 




> they are not available in stones. 
> you will need to message angus the fish and quantity that you want so he will do shipment for you.

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

I didn't manage to get cacatuoides red. The supplier sent the mamore red instead and even though its a beautiful pair it's not what I really wanted. I did get the pair though as it is not Angus' fault and it would be unfair if I were to reject.

----------


## Misery

Angus told me that this week shipment will be consolidated to next week, perhaps not much orders for this week ..

----------


## venom

i had made order for more female but did not get any reply from him whether he recieve my message or not

----------


## Misery

I'm pretty sure he's very busy when it comes to near Tuesday. He'll reply you soon I guess. 

I also hope to get all my orders next week. Empty tanks needs to be filled 😁

----------


## venom

what you ordered?

----------


## mobile2007

How do you all go about ordering from stones ? follow the format xxx/xxx/xxx/ to the 977xxxx number ??

----------


## venom

it go by 

Name/Fish/Size/Price/Contact number

----------


## Neebs

Hi guys,

Sorry for a bit of out topic and also silly questions.

I am interest to get a pair of apistogramma baenschi.
I read thru some pages on this forum topic, but who is stone? is it referring to shop? Mind to share with me the contact person, please send thru pm.

Thank you in advances.

----------


## Misery

> Every apisto nuts should check this out, with that pricing, should be captive bred though.
> 
> http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=508418


Here you go bro NEEBS

----------


## Neebs

Thank you Bro Misery and also all the bro(s) send pm to me.
Thank you all again.

----------


## Misery

Anyone placed any orders with Stones Aquarium lately?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Misery

No pre-order list yet. Sms him & he says he is busy with 20 boxes from S. America. Asked him whether got apistos, he says don't know how to order because all in local names. sigh.....otherwise can get wild ones

----------


## Misery

Thought so, my tanks got hit by tsunami, lost 4 pairs and about 16 fries  :Sad:

----------


## EdwinTay

wow...I thought mine was bad..lost a mamore male - jumper..committed suicide from 4th storey. Lost all male trifasciatas - now left with 3 females.

----------


## Misery

Massive crack below the tank, not quite sure why, I was devastated. Lost the whole rack over night.  :Sad:

----------


## ryzcris

Is there still going ot be a mass order? Can I add to the list? Looking for

Bitaeniata, Trifasciata, Elizabethae

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro ryzcis

In case you have not read, what I have done is to inform friendly LFS about the apistos which I think are most popular. So far, you can get Bitaeniata & Trifasciatas quite readily. Elizabethae is quite expensive & must special order.

----------


## Neebs

Hi Bro EdwinTay,

Basically when pre-ordering from Stone, how long does it need to take to received and welcome the fish to home?
The reason are I am looking on the correct time to collect and welcome the fish to home on the second week of July the earliest.

Thanks.

----------


## Neebs

One more question, the price for the breed is various (depend on the quantity / shipment) or fix?

----------


## Neebs

> One more question, the price for the breed is various (depend on the quantity / shipment) or fix?


Sorry, for silly question... Anyway, i check with Angus and the price is fix as per AF mention.
Cheers.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Neebs

Just heard that Stones has delivery on 23 May. The list is the same as before. The time between order & delivery is very short - less than one week. Also, there are certain conditions (e.g. must deposit money first, refund if fish no arrive) to be met.

----------


## Neebs

> hi bro Neebs
> 
> Just heard that Stones has delivery on 23 May. The list is the same as before. The time between order & delivery is very short - less than one week. Also, there are certain conditions (e.g. must deposit money first, refund if fish no arrive) to be met.


Thank you for replying. Noted.

----------


## sen_jie

Just checking if any apisto keepers are keen to share brineshrimpdirect BBS?

----------


## benjamin216

Doesn't seem like there is an update in the last few week. Anyone got their fishes recently?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi Benjamin

The May 23 shipment was postponed as there was not enough order. He says that he is busy with Aquarama this week.

Please refer to my other thread Mass order of apistos - List

----------


## benjamin216

No I'm not interested in apistos. Just wanna know if he will have an update to the list of cichlids. Is that list given, from Angus?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi Benjamin

Nope

----------


## benjamin216

Eunotus?

----------


## joopsg

Yes.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

----------


## benjamin216

Now the mission to find a mate for it, is on! Anyone has one?  :Razz:

----------


## Stormz

Just came back from Aqua one, they just came in a small shipment of tefe, caca red and orange, panduro and vejiata. Stock are not much. Do act fast.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Stormz

2 questions; where is Aqua One & how much is the Vejiata

----------


## Stormz

NO.22 PASIR RIS FARMWAY 2 (UNIT B1)
Business Hours : 11am - 8pm

Pricing I didn't ask. Might need to ask as I saw the shipment just came in.

----------


## EdwinTay

tks bro Stormz

Out for me as I got no transport....sigh

----------


## benjamin216

A. agassizi "Anori" at JZX

----------


## joopsg

looks like tefe.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro *Stormz* 
aqua one selling apisto back?? before he said stop... may i know his contact number ??
and address please.. better can get the GPS also... thks

----------


## benjamin216

It isn't. There's tefe at the shop as well, quite a difference between them.

----------


## venom

Went to c328 just now..
Saw a pair of tefe, panda and also 1 male caca with a number of females..

----------


## Stormz

> hi bro *Stormz* 
> aqua one selling apisto back?? before he said stop... may i know his contact number ??
> and address please.. better can get the GPS also... thks


NO.22 PASIR RIS FARMWAY 2 (UNIT B1)
Business Hours : 11am - 8pm

----------


## vic_tan0911

bro stormz
can i have aquaone contact number please?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bros

Anyone can tell me an easy way to differentiate MacMasteri & Viejita? I have NEVER been able to tell the difference except, in my opinion, MacMasteri is larger & rounder.

----------


## benjamin216

Some new shipments at JZX for those who are interested.

Glaser
Melgar
Inka
Trifasciata

----------


## cueball

Anyone sighted any other apistos apart from JZX? Tank just finished cycling and now looking to get a pair.

----------


## outspoken

I just went aquazone at pasir ris farmway yesterday and got myself a pair of viejita. Think he have a few others as well.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro cueball

I got a whole batch of trifasciata (1.5 weeks) & mamore fries (1.5 months). Both a little young. The mamores are actually quite nice, if the father's looks are anything to go by.....

----------


## sen_jie

> hi bro cueball
> 
> I got a whole batch of trifasciata (1.5 weeks) & mamore fries (1.5 months). Both a little young. The mamores are actually quite nice, if the father's looks are anything to go by.....


 
Oh mamore fries? any to spare or swap?  :Smile: 

I have some hongsloi 2 fries and bit maniti red fries on hand 

anybody have jurensis?

----------


## benjamin216

> hi bro cueball
> 
> I got a whole batch of trifasciata (1.5 weeks) & mamore fries (1.5 months). Both a little young. The mamores are actually quite nice, if the father's looks are anything to go by.....





> Oh mamore fries? any to spare or swap? 
> 
> I have some hongsloi 2 fries and bit maniti red fries on hand 
> 
> anybody have jurensis?


Any of you interested in selling a pair or two to me?  :Very Happy:

----------


## Simon

I know the initial intention of the thread was for an interest check, but now it looks more like a LFS report for Apisto.
Can I rename the thread title?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Simon

by all means - rename....a rose by another other name is still a rose....as long as it sustains the interest in apistos...

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Simon

That was fast...many thanks.

----------


## outspoken

Anyone knows where else we can find shops can carry apistogramma other than C328,Y618,JZX & Aquaone? I'm quite lost from the scene since stopping in 2007.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro outspoken

Stones @ Sin Ming - but you have to pre-order.

Some brothers also might want to trade or sell their excess

----------


## outspoken

Pre-order?...meaning he don't really have any on display?...wants to know what's available now in singapore...used to have a lot of varieties from shops but now seems like all of them close down. There's also this guy in pasir ris that used to stock up apisto in his house...His room is full of apisto that u can't get from shops and the price is damn cheap...i got freaking addicted.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro outspoken

I know the guy in Pasir Ris very well.

For your information, I have 27 tanks of apistos - but still not up to standard yet. Mine are breeding pairs (or, I wish they were..haha...) So far managed to breed Mamore & Trifasciata. But I have high hopes for my Wilhelmi, Hoignei, Viejita Yellow, Viejita Red & Elizabethae.

----------


## cueball

any pictures of your collection?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Cueball

Yes, but, (1) they are blur, (2)my tanks are full of plants - so can't quite see, (3) I am not really good at loading onto PC.

In fact, I didn't know that I had mamore & trifasciata fries until they were quite old because I put black ada soil in tanks.

I suppose I will get around to loading the photos one of these days.....

Actually, if a group of you guys want to drop by to see, you are most welcome - but has to be around October because I am quite tied up with work now.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Edwin,
Custom tank with partitions? I used to have quite a few nano tank with 1 pair in each and even manage to breed in that condition. Don't think i will ever go back to that. Wife will make noise.
Btw does that guy still stock in apisto? I'm interested to know cos i dun have his handphone number anymore.

Anyway just went to C328 just now and was abit disappointed with their stock,condition and price. Not much variety,male and female inside a bag each and their price is quite on the high side
as compared to last time.

----------


## Simon

> hi bro Simon
> 
> That was fast...many thanks.


You are welcome

----------


## venom

Recently setting up a anyhow planted 2ft by 2ft by 35cm tank..
may I check how many difference apisto can comm in the tank?

----------


## outspoken

By right only 1 pair because once they start to breed,the female will be very aggressive even towards the male partner.

But if you do not intend to breed or do not mind losing the fry or seeing the fry being eaten then it will be 2 pairs with a lot of hidding place for them to take shelter from 1 dominant male.

Another suggestion is to partition the tank into halve then you can have 2 pairs in the same tank without worrying.

----------


## mobile2007

This morning discovered that the female trifasciata started to bring her fries for their first swim.....feed them some "boon"...but most likely the fries are still too young to eat boon. The 2 ottos started to become ver annoying to the female..

----------


## venom

Saw vejiata gold at c328.. sadly only left the male.. female dead in bag

----------


## outspoken

I saw the female yesterday.looking at the condition of how they kept their apisto....hmm makes me think twice about buying from them.

If you interested in viejita gold then head down to aquaone at pasir ris farmway. I saw his viejita gold in good condition. Price wise abit higher than c328 selling.

----------


## joopsg

if the condition is good worth to pay slightly more.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk HD

----------


## cueball

Have an interesting experience to share. Few days back I introduced a new pair of agassizii into the tank. Noticed there was a lot of aggression on the female by the male and she looked stress. My tank has driftwood, java ferns and a cave but I scaped the tank such that all were in 1/3 corner of the tank. So i googled a little and read that male aggression could be due to the female not ready to spawn and is intruding the male territory. So what I did was to net the male and isolate him in a breeding box. Shifted the cave and java fern to another corner nearer to the sponge filter and sort of created another territory that the female could defend/own. Also by isolating the male, the female was allowed to swim around freely to familiarise herself with the tank. Suspect when I released both together previously, the male was owning territories faster than the female thus she did not have time to explore the tank. It might explain why when being chased, she did not really know where to hide and just hovered at one spot/corner not daring to move. Anyway I left the male overnight in the breeding box and this morning realise it had disappeared! Initially thought it might have jumped out of the tank, but thankfully it jumped back in. The amazing thing is the pair now swims together freely without the aggression. The male still follows the female around but only to wag his tail, doesnt nib or want to bite off the fins anymore. Its like a 360 change in aggression. Just wanted to share this experience in case anyone else experiences strong aggression from the male, you might want to try what i did.

----------


## joopsg

not always so lucky the male. usually should provide hiding location which is accessible by the female only.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk HD

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bros

Outspoken - Yes, the wife is the biggest obstacle to apisto-keeping. I have been banned from every corner of the house except the balcony. But, that doesn't stop me from having 27 small tanks & 1 glass pond....I did not partition - 27 Gex S tanks. I find partitioning too cumbersome - no flexibility to change rack set-up. The Pasir Ris guy's name is Joseph. I am still in contact with him but he has toned down on keeping fish in Singapore. PM me yr contact number & real name & I will forward to him (Have to respect if he wants to contact or not).

Venom - 2 ft x 2 ft - is it glass pond? Because I have a 3 x 3 x 1 glass pond which I am currently keeping a pair each of MacMasteri, Caca Orange, Pandurini, 6 steel blues, 3 ottos, 14 glowlight tetras, 8 neon tetras, 2 dwarf puffer, 9 crayfish (YES..crayfish). They are doing OK but I provide them hiding places. I do have photos but they are blur. You are welcome to visit me - but make appointment first - my wife wants me to limit my apistos & apisto friends in the balcony....haha.

Cueball - good way to introduce. But I am lazy. Just dump the male & female into the tank, put plenty of hiding places - no major problems except my female uaupesi now got no tail. My Viejita Yellow & Melgar pair, when first introduced, were agressive towards each other but, now like bonding.

----------


## venom

Yes... 2ft by 2ft glass tank.. currently have my trifa pair in.. 1 betta.. 18 cardinal tetra n 1 gold tetra..

----------


## outspoken

Edwin,
My wife still doesn't have a biggest clue that this "hobby" of keeping apisto will become very addictive. I quit this hobby before my marriage due to space constraint thus now she's quite curious with all this,even follows me to buy equipment and fishes. I suppose your balcony is quite big to hold all 27 tank including another 3Ft tank. Haiz.....My balcony is too pathetic as mine is 4room so just nice to fit a 2Ft tank but i opt for 1.5Ft tank to have some extra space.

I just got hold of another nano tank to be place inside my room so may be tempt to pay a bit more for a higher end apisto.

Will pm you about my details.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Outspoken - OK, will contact Joseph.

bro Venom - take out the betta - those things eat fries. With regards to my crayfish, they were given by a good bro here - I was just testing them out. So far, I noticed that they are too slow to catch the fish.

----------


## outspoken

Bro venom,
I saw your sale post of your tank but interested to know where you got the cave? Its very hard to find small coconut husk to use as cave anymore.

Any info appreciated.

----------


## stormhawk

If you want small coconut husks, try C328. Every now and then they get Java Fern etc tied to coconut husks. Some come in half husk shape. If you have to, look for a neighbourhood shop that deals with grated coconut. They might be willing to sell you the unwanted husks. You need to do some preparation on the husks however, before you can use them in a tank.

----------


## outspoken

Noted Bro. Thanks for the info. Wondering whether Y618 got sell similar products as well as I was going to give them a visit to see what apisto they have at the moment.

----------


## stormhawk

Possible that Y618 might have what you need. Their stocks are similar to whatever C328 has so it's likely they take plants from the same suppliers. These days however, less of the half-husk type but more of the small pieces of husk type with plants tied on them. The neighbourhood store route would be less troublesome since you can prepare these on your own. I got mine last time from a local Indian shop that sold grated coconut. Just had to scrape off the remaining flesh and boil them for about 30 mins. After which I'd rinse them off under cool water and sun them.

----------


## EdwinTay

Polyart sells coconut husk with java fern on top for $3.50. Y618 sells small ones for $1.80 - bt may be too small for apistos. For self-made husks, you have to be very careful - soak in water first before putting in aquarium. I prefer not to use husks because they break off easily after a while.

----------


## outspoken

Thanks for the thumbs up guys...will head down to Y618 tomorrow to check out if they have stock. I don't mind paying abit more for ready made husk than the hassle of boiling and sun dry them.
Think my wife will start to ask me to do all the housework if i got time to do the coconut husk.

BTW have anyone tried out Stones aquarium pre-order Apisto? Saw the list and was curious if the source is reliable and quality is good.

----------


## sen_jie

My coconut husk i got from fruits store. they now selling those agar agar inside a young coconut. 1 for 1.50 range. Eat the agar agar, then use the husk(FOC) :Smile:

----------


## ichise

Went C328 few days back saw 4-5 coconut husk with java moss attached on top ,
Got 1 for my apisto tank  :Razz:

----------


## outspoken

Can i know how much it cost? Went there last friday but totally forgot to check it out as was busy looking at their apisto and killies stock.
I'm staying at the east side so thinking twice before going there just to get the coconut husk.

----------


## ichise

> Can i know how much it cost? Went there last friday but totally forgot to check it out as was busy looking at their apisto and killies stock.
> I'm staying at the east side so thinking twice before going there just to get the coconut husk.


Hi Outspoken , I got it around $3-4 if I remember correctly , better call to check if they still have stock since you're staying east side

----------


## outspoken

Thanks ichise for the update. Going to Y618 to compare the price and hopefully they bring in the same stock. Wondering what apisto stock they have.

----------


## ichise

> Thanks ichise for the update. Going to Y618 to compare the price and hopefully they bring in the same stock. Wondering what apisto stock they have.


Keep us updated with what apisto they have ... Haha
Currently cycling tank and deciding what to get  :Razz:

----------


## outspoken

No problem. will update here tomorrow night. Looking for a good pair of Apisto Caca to put inside my Community Tank.

Aquaone do have Caca Orange & Caca Double Red but i don't find them to be big enough. Looks like young adult/juvenile.
Think they will get bash up with the other 2 pairs in the tank.

I'm also cycling another tank inside my room to try out other non-common types.

----------


## outspoken

Thanks for the heads up guys....Went to Y618 and was disappointed that they don't have coconut husk or even driftwood with moss.
Their apisto stock also limited,only the common 3 type Viejita,Agassizii and Caca but all are males. Only the Viejita males looks good
costing $16 per piece.

Rush down to C328 and finally got what i wanted. Coconut husk with java moss and fern. They also just bring some apisto but seems
like the same common,Viejita,Agassizii Alenquer,Aga Red and Borelli. I got 1 pair of Caca red costing only $20 but seems like Caca Orange

Going to head down to JZX to see their stock tomorrow.

----------


## stormhawk

That is standard stock for C328, likewise for Y618. These are farm-bred fish. I don't know the source but very often there are sneaker males. Usually they would have nijsenni or panduro in the lot.

----------


## benjamin216

Visiting Thailand, hopefully there'll be something nice there for me.

----------


## outspoken

Haiz....sneaker males?...i think mine is both female.just found out now cos the well developed "male" is showing yellow belly and the fins also indicated female.

Time to search for a male then.

----------


## mchw8055

Any if you guys intend to import fishes from Taiwan?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro mchw8055

Are you asking or are you offering?

----------


## mchw8055

I'm asking. But if u guys want, I got contact. :Smile:  just bought 4 adoketa.

----------


## sen_jie

Hi Mchw8055,

able to share the contact and the price which you obtain your adoketa? thanks!

----------


## mchw8055

You text me at 90079488. I send u the contact there. As for the prices, you have to ask him yourself.  :Smile:

----------


## outspoken

Bro,
Is your contact is a supplier or frequent traveler?
How's the reliability? And also about Dead On Arrival issue?

Interested but need to know also those important details.

----------


## mchw8055

He is the owner of a lfs in Taiwan. Death will not be refund. I have purchased 400 worth of apisto from him. So kind of know him abit. I did went to Taiwan visit him.

----------


## outspoken

Do you have the list of stock that he have in hand? Able to PM me?
Also wish to know more details like payment wise,estimated date of shipment etc.

----------


## vic_tan0911

> I just went aquazone at pasir ris farmway yesterday and got myself a pair of viejita. Think he have a few others as well.


hi bro Outspoken
can you tell me aquaone address pls? do u know which part can find apisto?

----------


## outspoken

It's at pasir ris farmway 2. Blk B unit 01.You need to have transport to move around the pasir ris farmway.If u come by UMC then you need to turn left after you reach the junction.

I find that they seems to hold the best apisto stock around in terms of farm bred apisto. There are also other shops like C328 and Y618 but you will be disappointed with either the condition and stock.

I just went to JZX in Amk central and their stock also not much but can get 1-2 non common species.But personallly i find that all of them are young adult/juvenile and i prefer adult pair.

----------


## mchw8055

Outspoken, text me at 90079488

----------


## outspoken

I kind of miss the biotope LFS. They used to make me drool with all their apisto and also not forgetting sam yick at eastpoint/marine parade. But their prices are on the higher side.

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Outspoken, text me at 90079488


text you what ?? pasir ris and y618 you know how to go?

----------


## mchw8055

I know how.. :Smile:

----------


## outspoken

Just went to Aquaone again today to acquire 2 new pairs. Dun Think much stock except Ap. Borelli only added in. I find that he have 1-2 T.Candidi males that looks promising but I don't have much space anymore.

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## outspoken

Bro Vic,
Both shop at C328 and AquaOne having same stock. 
Last friday i just went to C328 and new stock of Ap. Agassizii,Ap. Viejita and Ap.Borelli just came in. But they are either place beside the payment counter or inside the betta tanks.You will need to really search for it. Not really in good condition if you get from the plastic bag.

Yesterday i also went to AquaOne and their stock also just add in. They are placed much better conditions. Their Ap.Agassizii Red/Tefe stock is also not bad. But for Ap.Viejita,you may need to check again as i don't see any more female yesterday. His Ap. Viejita Gold is also nice looking together with Ap. Inka50 and they are place in another tank as their price is on a different range.

You can also try out JZX at AMK and their stock are from their previous peru shipment. But the apisto they have are not on my wanted list though.

----------


## vic_tan0911

Bro Outspoken

Thank your info bro... i will go to see when i go SG..... Cheers

----------


## felix_fx2

hi people,

please refrain from using sms lingo.

----------


## outspoken

I just went to JZX just now to see the leftover stocks and got tempted by his Ap. Gephyra. The male is colouring up well but with a small tear on the tail....he got 3 females so hope the one that i got as female is not a sneaker male.

----------


## benjamin216

Hi, so you were the one taking the pair just now? Hahaha, I was there as well! 

Anyway, does anyone know if the macmasteri sold by JZX and Aquaone are correctly sexed? Both males and "females" are equally colourful, it just feels like all of them are males.

----------


## cueball

i saw the ones at aquaone and was skeptical on the female. very colourful indeed. any idea why my agassizii male does not seem interested to fertilise the eggs? seems like second spawn and the female keeps trying to seduce the male in to the cave, but he just swims past it or isnt even interested. interesting to see the way the female tries to lead him to the cave though. could the male be infertile?

----------


## stormhawk

Some males are just not interested in spawning. I had a male agassizii that refused to spawn, even if I tried several ways to trigger them to spawn. Female was bright yellow ready to lay but the male was just going about looking for food.

----------


## cueball

> Some males are just not interested in spawning. I had a male agassizii that refused to spawn, even if I tried several ways to trigger them to spawn. Female was bright yellow ready to lay but the male was just going about looking for food.


yes this is what i am currently experiencing. will monitor for a few more spawns then decide if I should get another male. by the way what agassizii is this? alenquer? Might need to find another male of same species.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Cueball

Try - conditioning it with frozen or live food, put mirror for it to flare, put female in separate tank but within sight of male, lowering temperature to around 24%, do 50% water change, get some water from a tank with breeding fish (apparently, the hormones will alter the water composition) & put in tank.

I used to have problems with breeding but, this time around, I have Mamore, trifasciata, Hoignei fries. I even have Viejita Gold eggs but unfortunately, they disappeared overnight.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Benjamin,
Yes, i was the one that took the pair of Ap. Gephyra from JZX last thursday. Intended to take his Bitaeniata pair but they are infected with white spots. Think he are left with 2 females. For the macmasteri/viejita i suspect that most of them are males only. Maybe you can try out C328 but do recheck on the female because they may be wrongly label.

Bro Cueball,
The agassizii is Ap. Agassizii Alenquer. Saw only two types of Agassizii in the market now,Alenquer and double red. I think you can easily get another male. Mine is actually the opposite. The female is not interested at all or maybe because they are in a community tank. Male is always flashing in front of the female. Hope they do not breed or i'm in trouble.

----------


## stormhawk

Cueball, you cannot tell which population of agassizii this male comes from. I did see a similar male at C328 earlier.

Spotted the following at C328 - borelli, agassizii (could not make out population name), caca orange flash, Taeniacara candidi.

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## cueball

can i breed a agassizii double red with my current female?

----------


## stormhawk

Yes, but the pairing is dependent on whether the female will accept the male. You can always try.  :Wink:

----------


## ichise

Hi guys ,

Just to check if apistogramma bitaeniata is easy to get in LFS ?
Don't seem to see any , or maybe bad luck when I go down .

Thanks

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Ichise

Bits are easy to get. And they come in different varieties - shushupe, shishita, maniti being the most common.

----------


## ichise

Do you know which shop carry them more often ? 
Planning to get a pair .

Cheers

----------


## outspoken

I don't think you can find any AP. Bitaeniata in any LFS at the moment. Been searching for them for 1 month but couldn't find any except JZX but his stock are juvenile pair and was down with white spot previously. Didn't see the pair when i was there yesterday.

Stone have 2 type of Bit under his pre-order list. Thinking of getting both type one of these days.

----------


## ichise

Hi outspoken ~
You very hardcore seems like you been to all the LFS very frequently hahha...
But anyway thanks for the updates .
Can't wait to get a pair , very captivated by Bitaeniata  :Razz:

----------


## outspoken

I've just restart this hobby again so kind of abit addicted to look at what is available in LFS at the moment. I'm working shift so during my off day i would stop by the LFS or pasir ris farm to have a look. This addiction will slow down once i can't get other species other than the commons types.

I will be going down to AquaOne today to have a look at what's available.

----------


## ichise

Nice ~ please update what they have  :Smile: 
Why don't have local shop sell all apistogramma haha ...
So many species but always the same few type , got money also can't get the type you want

----------


## outspoken

Bro Ichise,
Aquaone is still having the same stocklist as before,no new stock and reducing actually. But he do have a lot Ap. Agassizii tefe/red/alenquer available. 1 Ap. Viejita male,1 Ap. Borelli male, 1 pair of Ap. Panduro and a few Tri and Candidi and leftover Ap. Caca male. He do still have the impressive Ap. Viejita Gold.

I ask the boss if he will be bringing in other species such as Ap. Bitaeniata but he say most probably no as they come in small size and it's hard to sell.

----------


## mchw8055

I went there yesterday too. Nothing much there. I think i will be trying out on stone aquarium as it is the cheapest I can get besides from my friend in Taiwan.

----------


## outspoken

I'm thinking of ordering from him as well. Looking to order the 2 type of Ap. Bit that he listed out.

----------


## ichise

Hi bro outspoken ,

Thanks for the updates

----------


## huhengyi1986

Anyone seen apisto candidi around? Thank you very much

----------


## genes

Candidi is not an Apistogramma. It's a Taeniacara. I saw some juveniles at JZX couple of weeks back.

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro *huhengyi1986*

aquaone have candidi... trifa and and viejita no more...

----------


## outspoken

I just got a pair from aquaone few days back. But i don't think there is any more female. Think there are about 3-4 males left.

----------


## sen_jie

I may have some bit meniti red fries available for trade soon  :Smile:  parent pair are wild caught

----------


## huhengyi1986

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I have asked 328 to bring in a pair for me

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro sen jie did you mean apisto bitaeniata maniti??

----------


## outspoken

Bro Sen jie,
What kind of trade will you be interested in? Do let us know.

----------


## sen_jie

> hi bro sen jie did you mean apisto bitaeniata maniti??


Right on. 

i am looking for Dip or Eliz  :Smile:  Do you have any available? Top up can be discussed

----------


## venom

i also looking for apisto elizabethe... went to JZX yesterday and asked but was told it is not easy to get nowadays.

----------


## outspoken

Ap. Elizabethe has always been rare due to the high cost of acquiring. LFS do not dare to bring in as they do not really want to take the risk involve especially when they die.
Bro Edwin is having a pair so let's just hope he manage to breed them and sell us his F1.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Outspoken

Damn... you soused me out. Actually, the Elizabethae spawned but eggs disappeared. The good thing - the pair still looks very healthy. The same thing happened for my Wilhelmi. Problem is that I have no time to change my water for the past 1.5 months. Will try to do so this Sunday.

So far, I have about 30 Mamore fries (3 mths), 30 Trifasciata fries (1.5 mths), 10 Hoignei fries (1 mth).

As I mentioned before, I am not skilled at photography so no pictures. However, I will be glad to host (subject to approval by wife) you guys one day (maybe late September). I stay at Serangoon North.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Edwin,
You are one of the few guys who have a few people who have a few variant in hand that people are looking for.
Wow..That's a lot of fries to take care. Do update us on your apisto "Open House"

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Outspoken

Will update you guys.

Now tied up with work...weekends need to recover

----------


## markvtec2

Is stone apistogramma wild or farm breed

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro markvtec2

Stones are farm-bred. In fact, most suppliers are farm-bred because it's getting harder to get wild caught.

----------


## markvtec2

> hi bro markvtec2
> 
> Stones are farm-bred. In fact, most suppliers are farm-bred because it's getting harder to get wild caught.


Thanks bro for the infor

----------


## jazzyboi

If anybody in Bangkok now, do drop by at the Aquarium shops in Chatuchak Market. I was there this afternoon, saw a number of Apisto not found, sold in Singapore and it's really very cheap. They got Caca for 300 baht a pair, Apisto gephyra 450 baht a pair, Apisto gibbiceps 300 baht a pair...

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Jazzyboi

wow...thanks for the information. Now to convince my wife to go during holidays...and save some money for the puchases

----------


## cueball

do we need to apply for any permit either bangkok or singapore side to check-in and bring back the fishes? what's the procedure

----------


## outspoken

Bro Jazzyboi,
How's the quality like and also condition of the apisto? No doubt it's cheap but if condition is bad then worry they might not survive the trip back.
Seems like there is no need to go to Taiwan or Hong Kong to view/acquire these rare species anymore. Bangkok seems to be the new heaven....

Waiting for my pair from bangkok this sunday...hopefully nothing goes wrong.

----------


## markvtec2

> Bro Jazzyboi,
> How's the quality like and also condition of the apisto? No doubt it's cheap but if condition is bad then worry they might not survive the trip back.
> Seems like there is no need to go to Taiwan or Hong Kong to view/acquire these rare species anymore. Bangkok seems to be the new heaven....
> 
> Waiting for my pair from bangkok this sunday...hopefully nothing goes wrong.


Bro can share how you bring in the apisto and the type they carry. Thanks

----------


## outspoken

I didn't go there. Not yet though but someone is bring them back and i just "tompang" my order. Hand carry I guess.
The apisto list is sure tempting especially when LFS here do not bring them in. Eliz and Diplo is a sure hot item there.

----------


## Cacatuoides

Any sightings for a good pair of cacatuoides Red? Thinking of going back to my old roots

----------


## markvtec2

Advice pls. Got a 2X1.5X1.5 tank, is it better to separate into half to keep 2 different pairs or to put both pairs together.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Caca, I'm not sure how's the quality of the Apisto there but the list do have AP. Caca wild and also the Orange.
Think the best for Caca is sure to be the Triple Red variant but hardly ever get to see nowadays.

Bro Markvtec2, Advice is to consider the filtration if you separate the tank into 2 halves. Better if you intend to breed them
and also less stressful for the apisto. 2 pairs can be done to be kept inside together but need to provide ample hiding space
and also the apisto will be stress especially the one who is being harassed. Lots of fin torn due to the aggression.If the apisto 
is expensive and of high grade then better to keep it alone or worst case scenario partition it.

Another good reason to get another small tank. I'm setting up another 1ft tank to keep another pair. Maybe you can consider
Bro Edwin Setup if you have the space and permission.

----------


## markvtec2

> Bro Caca, I'm not sure how's the quality of the Apisto there but the list do have AP. Caca wild and also the Orange.
> Think the best for Caca is sure to be the Triple Red variant but hardly ever get to see nowadays.
> 
> Bro Markvtec2, Advice is to consider the filtration if you separate the tank into 2 halves. Better if you intend to breed them
> and also less stressful for the apisto. 2 pairs can be done to be kept inside together but need to provide ample hiding space
> and also the apisto will be stress especially the one who is being harassed. Lots of fin torn due to the aggression.If the apisto 
> is expensive and of high grade then better to keep it alone or worst case scenario partition it.
> 
> Another good reason to get another small tank. I'm setting up another 1ft tank to keep another pair. Maybe you can consider
> Bro Edwin Setup if you have the space and permission.








This is the current setup for my apisto but find that limited space for they to swim around and both pair female always hidding behind the air operated filter and seldom come out even feeding time.
I already have this 2 tier tank set so not likely will change to smaller tank

----------


## outspoken

Add in coconut husk to act as a hiding spot. C328 is selling some with fern and it's cheap. $3-5 per piece. Add in some dither fish...you can also remove the male and let the female get used the surrounding. Reintroduce the male after the female is confident to swim around.

----------


## Cacatuoides

Thank you bro. I will continue to look for a good triple red variant  :Smile: 
Wish to relive the good old memories!
Happy to see members of this community still going strong!





> Bro Caca, I'm not sure how's the quality of the Apisto there but the list do have AP. Caca wild and also the Orange.
> Think the best for Caca is sure to be the Triple Red variant but hardly ever get to see nowadays.
> 
> Bro Markvtec2, Advice is to consider the filtration if you separate the tank into 2 halves. Better if you intend to breed them
> and also less stressful for the apisto. 2 pairs can be done to be kept inside together but need to provide ample hiding space
> and also the apisto will be stress especially the one who is being harassed. Lots of fin torn due to the aggression.If the apisto 
> is expensive and of high grade then better to keep it alone or worst case scenario partition it.
> 
> Another good reason to get another small tank. I'm setting up another 1ft tank to keep another pair. Maybe you can consider
> Bro Edwin Setup if you have the space and permission.

----------


## jazzyboi

> Bro Jazzyboi,
> How's the quality like and also condition of the apisto? No doubt it's cheap but if condition is bad then worry they might not survive the trip back.
> Seems like there is no need to go to Taiwan or Hong Kong to view/acquire these rare species anymore. Bangkok seems to be the new heaven....
> 
> Waiting for my pair from bangkok this sunday...hopefully nothing goes wrong.


They are in the tank and look very healthy, and lively. I didn't get it as i need to be here for a few more days. Go to a shop that is located near all the huge shops that sells Kois and there is a shop that sells plenty of artificial backgrounds and water pumps. quite near to the main road. I was getting a shelter there while waiting for the heavy rain to stop and by chance saw it. They have like 100s of Caca. You can even just get either the males or the females alone for the Cacas. Just that you need to speak to the lady boss in Thai, or else, it's hard to communicate with her. If you are interested in their original German Rams, very good condition and colours, it's very cheap at around 200 baht a pair! Even I saw a bag of mixed 20 Malawi cichlids for only 100 baht....How I wish Singapore is like them that dirt cheap...You would feel the same if you are here. Go during the weekdays, less crowded. Those shops are located very close to the JJ Mall which is air conditioned (your Mrs or children could go there if it gets too hot and treat them to Swensen's ice cream). If you are interested in Altums..it's another heaven here...:-) Most of the shops here have beautiful planted aquariums that you wished you could have those tanks in your home too...

----------


## jazzyboi

> hi bro Jazzyboi
> 
> wow...thanks for the information. Now to convince my wife to go during holidays...and save some money for the puchases


Yes of course, you can tell them to go to the nearby JJ Mall which is air conditioned if it gets too hot, maybe give your wife or children a treat to the Swensen's ice cream which is non-halal...ie, you can find real rum in rum & raisin ice cream!) Go during the weekdays, less crowded. I always go during the Wednesday and Thursday where I go for my garden market shopping. Those are the days where the garden farmers would bring in their goods to sell at wholesale price. Very cheap air plants.....orchids... Then you will find that air tickets during weekdays are a lot cheaper than weekends ones.:-)

----------


## vic_tan0911

> They are in the tank and look very healthy, and lively. I didn't get it as i need to be here for a few more days. Go to a shop that is located near all the huge shops that sells Kois and there is a shop that sells plenty of artificial backgrounds and water pumps. quite near to the main road. I was getting a shelter there while waiting for the heavy rain to stop and by chance saw it. They have like 100s of Caca. You can even just get either the males or the females alone for the Cacas. Just that you need to speak to the lady boss in Thai, or else, it's hard to communicate with her. If you are interested in their original German Rams, very good condition and colours, it's very cheap at around 200 baht a pair! Even I saw a bag of mixed 20 Malawi cichlids for only 100 baht....How I wish Singapore is like them that dirt cheap...You would feel the same if you are here. Go during the weekdays, less crowded. Those shops are located very close to the JJ Mall which is air conditioned (your Mrs or children could go there if it gets too hot and treat them to Swensen's ice cream). If you are interested in Altums..it's another heaven here...:-) Most of the shops here have beautiful planted aquariums that you wished you could have those tanks in your home too...


hi bro in the jj mall got a fish shop name alantis ,they sell apisto too

----------


## cueball

my female apisto keeps tilting her body sideways towards the male and looks like she is trying to lead him to the cave cause she always goes back into it. but the male doesnt seem interested and doesnt follow. is this a normal mating ritual?her most successful attempt seems to be able to lead him just outside the cave then she goes in and the male swims away again.

----------


## joopsg

As long he can send the semen to fertilize the eggs consider it job done.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

----------


## Luc Tango

Hi bro outspoken,

sorry to butt in. saw your post stating "the list have apisto caca wild"? where's the place?

----------


## jazzyboi

> hi bro in the jj mall got a fish shop name alantis ,they sell apisto too


 Yes i know. Generally things inside JJ mall is more expensive than the ones outside. There is our local Qianhu shop in JJ mall on the second floor too.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Luc,
The place is not in singapore but in Bangkok,Thailand. Not sure about the availability and quality as i myself is not there
in Bangkok. Maybe you can list your interest at Bro Eman/Caca other post regarding the interest of bring in apisto from Malaysia.

----------


## markvtec2

Bro remember to up load photos of your new catch when stable.

----------


## mchw8055

Hey jazzy, I'm heading jatuchat today! Haha. Exploring there area soon! Reached me at 0823455904. Haha thai no. May I know the area you saw the apisto, is it a big open space area with roof? With alot of FGT?

----------


## benjamin216

its near the koi area. But do not have high expectations of the apistos there. expensive and most of the time, you'll only find what we already have here.

----------


## mchw8055

Thks bro Benjamin! Haha. You been there recently? 
I already got my orders from breeder. Just go there and shop. Hoping to fill up my what-to-get list. :Smile:  thanks for the info! 
This is this shop there. The equipment is the cheapest! I think 20% cheaper than in Sg

----------


## mchw8055

King far aquarium

----------


## benjamin216

> Thks bro Benjamin! Haha. You been there recently? 
> I already got my orders from breeder. Just go there and shop. Hoping to fill up my what-to-get list. thanks for the info! 
> This is this shop there. The equipment is the cheapest! I think 20% cheaper than in Sg


Been there at the start of August. Really disappointed with the apistos on sale there. Hahaha

----------


## jazzyboi

> Hey jazzy, I'm heading jatuchat today! Haha. Exploring there area soon! Reached me at 0823455904. Haha thai no. May I know the area you saw the apisto, is it a big open space area with roof? With alot of FGT?


Yes. Somewhere there. Do bring umbrella, it's been raining almost every evening here. :-) Enjoy your exploration! Don't forget to look out for New Life Spectrum food for your fishes. It's cheaper in Bangkok. A large bottle for only 650 baht. Speak to the lady in Thai, you may get more discounts. I got immediate discounts for a pair of apistos for 450baht instead of 500 baht listed on the tank without me asking. But in the end, I didn't get any, cos I will be having some things to do over here in Bangkok for a few more days and won't be back to Singapore yet. Enjoy your shopping!

----------


## mchw8055

> Yes. Somewhere there. Do bring umbrella, it's been raining almost every evening here. :-) Enjoy your exploration! Don't forget to look out for New Life Spectrum food for your fishes. It's cheaper in Bangkok. A large bottle for only 650 baht. Speak to the lady in Thai, you may get more discounts. I got immediate discounts for a pair of apistos for 450baht instead of 500 baht listed on the tank without me asking. But in the end, I didn't get any, cos I will be having some things to do over here in Bangkok for a few more days and won't be back to Singapore yet. Enjoy your shopping!


Hey jazzy. I'm back in singapore. Brought in 14 pairs of fishes with me.. :Smile: . Not from jatuchak though. 
Hope that you are able to get the fish you wanted. New life spectrum? I using tetra bits currently. Any difference between this two?

----------


## jazzyboi

> Hey jazzy. I'm back in singapore. Brought in 14 pairs of fishes with me... Not from jatuchak though. 
> Hope that you are able to get the fish you wanted. New life spectrum? I using tetra bits currently. Any difference between this two?


That's great to hear! Save you the trouble of packing them into your luggage. Where did you get your apistos? Anyway, I find the apisto gibbiceps for 300 baht a pair (SGD12), irresistible, where can you get this price in Singapore for any apistos? If anyone could point me to the LFS in Singapore that sells at this price! I might go down to Chatuchak again next week before I head back to Singapore, to get some if the resistance levels is low...lol

All New Life Spectrum products contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. I had many apistos died to internal parasites in the past, after feeding this fish food, it's been a year and the apistos are still as lively as ever and free from any diseases. My Altums and discus loves them too. I bought one big bottle (300g) of this at 650 baht (SGD 26). I remembered seeing a tiny small bottle (80g) of the same Thera A at Seaview two weeks ago for $17. Do try it. Save you from all the possible agony of treating the diseases that might appear from feeding live food especially. Don't think that frozen blood worms are safe...beware... Apistos are very prone to internal parasites.

----------


## cueball

4 times eggs laid, 4 times no spawn. oh well, patience.

----------


## mchw8055

Hi to all, anyone has the contact to get Brineshrimp eggs? 90-95% hatch rate? Can get rough estimate of the price? Around 425 grams

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Yes. Somewhere there. Do bring umbrella, it's been raining almost every evening here. :-) Enjoy your exploration! Don't forget to look out for New Life Spectrum food for your fishes. It's cheaper in Bangkok. A large bottle for only 650 baht. Speak to the lady in Thai, you may get more discounts. I got immediate discounts for a pair of apistos for 450baht instead of 500 baht listed on the tank without me asking. But in the end, I didn't get any, cos I will be having some things to do over here in Bangkok for a few more days and won't be back to Singapore yet. Enjoy your shopping!


hi bro you are right, Apistos are very prone to internal parasites.
New Life Spectrum food have product for apisto? its is thera a?? since i know NLS is good for chichlid only,can you u show me the picture,

----------


## jazzyboi

> hi bro you are right, Apistos are very prone to internal parasites.
> New Life Spectrum food have product for apisto? its is thera a?? since i know NLS is good for chichlid only,can you u show me the picture,


Just the normal Thera A, but choose the ones for small fishes. They have three different pellets sizes. For apistos, choose the one for the small fishes. I feed the medium and small sizes one, the apisto still take them, as I have larger fishes like Discuses, Altums and Surinam Angelfishes.

----------


## jazzyboi

> Just the normal Thera A, but choose the ones for small fishes. They have three different pellets sizes. For apistos, choose the one for the small fishes. I feed the medium and small sizes one, the apisto still take them, as I have larger fishes like Discuses, Altums and Surinam Angelfishes.


Forgot to add, don't forget apistos belongs to the cichlid family, so those NLS food is good for cichlids, also good for apistos.  :Smile:

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Just the normal Thera A, but choose the ones for small fishes. They have three different pellets sizes. For apistos, choose the one for the small fishes. I feed the medium and small sizes one, the apisto still take them, as I have larger fishes like Discuses, Altums and Surinam Angelfishes.


hi bro... so you feed your apisto NLS thera A everyday ??after that dont have internal parasite again? can you tell me which one for apisto?
http://www.nlspectrum.co.uk/product_...p?p=freshwater

----------


## markvtec2

> hi bro... so you feed your apisto NLS thera A everyday ??after that dont have internal parasite again? can you tell me which one for apisto?
> http://www.nlspectrum.co.uk/product_...p?p=freshwater


*New Life Spectrum
Thera A - Small Fish*
*With Extra Garlic*

----------


## vic_tan0911

> *New Life Spectrum
> Thera A - Small Fish*
> *With Extra Garlic*


hi bro
u feed your apisto everyday? garlic can eat everday?

----------


## markvtec2

> hi bro
> u feed your apisto everyday? garlic can eat everday?


I dont feed everyday but dont think any problem. I feeding FBS or FBW or NLS thera A once eveyday

----------


## outspoken

Just to share my latest acquisition. Thanks Bro Melvin.

----------


## mchw8055

Bro outspoken, no problem! Gonna update mine soon. Cycling my new tanks now. Photo coming in 2 days time.

----------


## ichise

Bro outspoken , nice pair you got .
I'm also starting to look for another pair for my newly cycled 2feet haha .
Anything interesting recently ? Or the same common species ? 
 :Smile:

----------


## EdwinTay

bro Ichise

Try Bitaeniata - they are slightly less than half price of Elizabethae

----------


## ichise

Yo Edwin ~
Tried looking for some last month no LFS carry , been busy with work haven't go LFS hunting . 
Any idea or recent sighting where to get ? 

Thanks

----------


## outspoken

Bro melvin,
Waiting for the photos of the Diplos and megaptera.

Bro Ichise,
I doubt you can find any Bitaeniata from any LFS at the moment. The last one seen is from JZX.
Maybe you can enquire one of the fellow hobbyist here who may have Bitaeniata for sale.

----------


## ichise

> Bro melvin,
> Waiting for the photos of the Diplos and megaptera.
> 
> Bro Ichise,
> I doubt you can find any Bitaeniata from any LFS at the moment. The last one seen is from JZX.
> Maybe you can enquire one of the fellow hobbyist here who may have Bitaeniata for sale.


Cool will try that  :Smile:

----------


## mchw8055

Hi guys, ever tried feeding apisto with bloodworm? Frozen one. Any advise for that? I have never tried that before. How do u feed it as it comes in cubes .

----------


## ichise

> Hi guys, ever tried feeding apisto with bloodworm? Frozen one. Any advise for that? I have never tried that before. How do u feed it as it comes in cubes .


Hi , 
I feed them with my planting pincer , worm by worm . Can control how much to feed them .
Only feed 2-3 times weekly as a treat , not sure about others  :Smile:

----------


## mchw8055

> Hi , 
> I feed them with my planting pincer , worm by worm . Can control how much to feed them .
> Only feed 2-3 times weekly as a treat , not sure about others


Hey bro ichise, yours frozen one? Do u de froze it and then separate the worm to feed the fishes? Thought getting it, I heard it aids the fish in breeding.

----------


## ichise

Yea usually I take it out from fridge wait awhile then use toothpick to take out few worms ... Hahah

----------


## outspoken

Normally i would defrost it by placing in a small plate and add a bit of hot water then use toothpick to feed the fish. Feed them only once a week as feeding too much of bloodworm will cause the apisto to be easily infection with disease. I rotate between blood worm / daphine and brine shrimp.

----------


## mchw8055

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651198.002350.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651215.385508.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651239.802361.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651269.102782.jpg

----------


## mchw8055

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651378.802399.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651448.518882.jpg
First time uploading with tapatalk.. My fish room. Eliza,steel blue,firered,diplo and megaptera

----------


## ichise

Wow nice fish room , I think I can spend all day inside ... Haha

----------


## vic_tan0911

> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651378.802399.jpg
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378651448.518882.jpg
> First time uploading with tapatalk.. My fish room. Eliza,steel blue,firered,diplo and megaptera


hi bro, still have space can make one more rack. you miss out hongsloi, adoketa and chanan...  :Laughing: 

then i also upload my fish room.... :Wink: 
iniridae WC,steel blue,agassizi tefe,eremnopyge WC,cacat triple red,viejita gold,viejita red,candidi,Dicrossus filamentousus ,agassizi super red,

----------


## ichise

Totally like a LFS haha ... Awesome guys so good to have a fishroom/man-cave ... LoL

----------


## mchw8055

> hi bro, still have space can make one more rack. you miss out hongsloi, adoketa and chanan... 
> 
> then i also upload my fish room....
> iniridae WC,steel blue,agassizi tefe,eremnopyge WC,cacat triple red,viejita gold,viejita red,candidi,Dicrossus filamentousus ,agassizi super red,



Pending for another 2x1.5 4 tier...
Haha. Quite tiring changing water.

To everyone here, any idea how you can take beautiful pic of your fish? They are all camera shy.. :Sad:

----------


## ichise

DSLR helps alot , mobile phone abit difficult to get good pictures . 

How often you all change water ?

----------


## mchw8055

I don't usually change water. I wait till the water evaporate till 7/8 then I top up. 
When I change, it wil be once every 1.5 months.
Do you recommend changing of water ?

----------


## ichise

I change water according to the nitrate level in my tanks , if above 10 I change some fresh water . 
1.5 months is quite long if not heavily planted . 
Good to check the tanks parameter  :Razz:

----------


## ichise

Started a tank ... finished cycling , planning to add 1 or 2 apistogramma in , not really for breeding purpose . 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dbbkmut...ture=c4-feed-u

----------


## outspoken

Bro melvin,
The first picture is it Elizabethae male or female? The tail looks like a spade shape.

Bro Vic & melvin,
Nice Setup you guys have. How nice to have a dedicate fish room. Envious Man.

----------


## sen_jie

> Cool will try that


Hi bro Ichise, drop me a thinker if you are keen on Bit Meniti red variant. 

i got a spawn of remaining 9 pieces.  :Smile:

----------


## ichise

Hi bro Senjie ,

i already pmed you  :Smile:

----------


## mchw8055

Bro outspoken. The first pic is the male one.

Anyway, my tank is not planted. All fake plants except for my moss  :Smile: 
Will that be a problem for my water condition?

----------


## ichise

Hi Mchw ~ 
Moss is fine , add some low maintainence plant like java ferns ? 
Smaller tank need more regular water change , It's always good to have a nitrate test kit  :Smile:  

Cheers

----------


## mchw8055

> Hi Mchw ~ 
> Moss is fine , add some low maintainence plant like java ferns ? 
> Smaller tank need more regular water change , It's always good to have a nitrate test kit  
> 
> Cheers


My current water parameter
Ph 4.8
Temp 25-27

I'm afraid that the nana and fern will turn black and brown. Was it the temp or the lighting? That's the reason stopping me from using real plant.

----------


## ichise

Temp seems fine , so jealous of your PH ... Haha ADA soil ? 
Nana and java fern will do fine with low to medium lighting .
Get a bunch of java and try if you want , very cheap nowadays .
Or you can get some floating plants like frogbit throw them in the tank .
My apisto seems comfortable with many floating plants/shade , they always go below the frogbit roots and look for stuffs to hunt/eat  :Smile:

----------


## mchw8055

Yeap. Ada soil. Used alot of black water as well. :Smile:  
Wil try it someday with the fern and nana. 
What's your water parameter?

----------


## ichise

Temp about 26-27 , PH with ADA soil tank about 5-6 , PH with sand substrate tank about 6.8 
I hate my tap water pH about 7.6 very high .
I use peat , blackwater and Ketapang to lower it .
More pics of your fish room please ~ hahha

----------


## mchw8055

I see.. It gonna be costly for the sand based tank.. Haha but I feel it's better for the fish living in sand substrate.
I'm currently cycling another 2x 3 ft tanks. Room in a mess now. Give me 3 days. :Smile:  
Waiting for my fish to stabilize and start breeding

----------


## mchw8055

Anyway, I intend to get this 
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/eheim-quick-vac-pro
For gravel cleaning. Cost arnd 98 at c328

Any other cheaper methods for gravel cleaning?

----------


## venom

i have a 1.5ft tank spare now. feel like getting another pair of apisto.
what do you guys suggest me to get?

in my mind, i would love to get elizabethe but i guess it will not be easy to get nowaday.
Inka50 WC? any nice beauty to suggest?

----------


## ichise

> Anyway, I intend to get this 
> http://www.ebay.com/bhp/eheim-quick-vac-pro
> For gravel cleaning. Cost arnd 98 at c328
> 
> Any other cheaper methods for gravel cleaning?


You planning what substrate for your new 3 ft tank ? 
Keeping apisto also ? 3 ft for apisto like stay bungalow lol
I'm not sure I don't usually do huge gravel cleaning in my planted tanks . 
Just a normal DIY suck and siphon hahha

----------


## mchw8055

One of my 3 ft partition into half
1 for diplotaenia 4 pieces
1 for my elizabethae pair

The other is 3 ft for my adoketa pair :Smile: 

I realized after some time. The soil turned powder and there will be algae and food stuck there. Have to use something to clean it.
Guess the gravel vacuum is more efficient way to do it.  :Smile:

----------


## mchw8055

Bro venom, it totally depends on your preference. If you like fat body, you can try hongsloi, adoketa or viejita.
If you prefer long body, you can try diplo, Eliza or firered. 
These are my favourite.

----------


## ichise

I think for ADA soil better dont use those gravel vacuum , think will become more messy .

Anyway where you get your Eliza ? You got a pair to breed ?
Think everyone waiting for it ... Hahah

----------


## ichise

> i have a 1.5ft tank spare now. feel like getting another pair of apisto.
> what do you guys suggest me to get?
> 
> in my mind, i would love to get elizabethe but i guess it will not be easy to get nowaday.
> Inka50 WC? any nice beauty to suggest?


Hi bro venom I think it's really down to own preference , like what bro Mchw say .
For me I prefer the slim type ... Sounds like describing girls hahha

----------


## mchw8055

I bought it from Thailand. Haha from one of the breeders. Checked in and bring it over personally. :Smile: . I got one for bro Outspoken too.
I had 2 pair of Eliza. However, one of the female died. Unnatural death.
Luckily I had one older Eliza female from my previous collection to replace it. :Smile:  hope they can breed.

----------


## ichise

I see ... Wa all the way from Thailand , good luck hope they breed for you soon  :Smile:

----------


## venom

i see. i prefer those bright and colourful type..
elizabethe!!

----------


## mchw8055

Bro venom, you can try hongsloi, agassizzi double red , fire red or viejita.

----------


## outspoken

I don't think you can easily find Hongsloi or Agassizii Fire Red in the LFS at the moment.

C328 only have Panduro Pair while Aquaone stock at the moment is also quite dull.
Heard Both JZX and Aquaone may have new stock coming in on friday (please call the shop for confirmation)
But don't expect to find those exotic and rare species. Should be the normal species like Viejita/Macmasteri, Agassizii Double Red, Borelli.

If those who prefer broad body then i really recommend the Viejita Gold at Aquaone. (1male,2female seen)
Gold/Albino Body with red spots. Price is slightly on the higher side at $90 for a pair. So maybe you can try to negotiate with the boss
for the price of all 3.

----------


## venom

Thanks all bro for the advice..
aquaone is quite way out of my convenient..
guess I got to wait for JZX to restock

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro outspoken
i just bought 6 pcs baby agassizi fire red in manila philippine... hehe
and i want to tell you the Viejita Gold malaysia sell only rm80/90 pair

----------


## outspoken

Wow bro vic, you bring them in yourself? Or you get from supplier? Do post some pictures when they settle down.

The price difference is obvious as i assume most of the apisto stock actually comes from malaysia supplier.

I saw Y618 selling 2 males Ap. Caca Double red and their colouration on its fins are quite good. Almost like triple red but too bad they do not have female to pair it up.

----------


## mchw8055

PICTURE UPDATE!
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379045095.694348.jpg
My another setup 3ft tank top
3ft partition 2 side bottom

Caca WILDCAUGHT
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379045145.089674.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379045171.289106.jpg


Hongsloi 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379045192.539444.jpg

Steel blue
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379045224.806108.jpg

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Wow bro vic, you bring them in yourself? Or you get from supplier? Do post some pictures when they settle down.
> 
> The price difference is obvious as i assume most of the apisto stock actually comes from malaysia supplier.
> 
> I saw Y618 selling 2 males Ap. Caca Double red and their colouration on its fins are quite good. Almost like triple red but too bad they do not have female to pair it up.


hi bro.. i get from manila local fish shop,hehe, it still small, i will post picture when they grow ok..
supplier come from malaysia?? but i cant find the supplier in malaysia,

----------


## outspoken

You guys must be fanatic apisto lovers. Travel to other countries to get them.

I'm not sure where the supply comes from. I'm only assuming that they get from there.

Btw i just acquire 2 new species for my collection. Apistogramma Bitaeniata red-back and Caca Red.

Will post photos when they settle down.

----------


## outspoken

My new acquisition. I'm amazed by the Ap. Caca red finnage.
Sorry for the lousy pictures as i just tool it with my HP camera

----------


## markvtec2

> My new acquisition. I'm amazed by the Ap. Caca red finnage.
> Sorry for the lousy pictures as i just tool it with my HP camera


Nice beauty you got there. Thanks for sharing

----------


## outspoken

Thanks and you will be more amazed with the price.
Cheapest pair. Doubt you can get this price with other LFS

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro 
the firsr photo was Apistogramma Bitaeniata red-back?really dont know how to see which is double red and triple red,cause you got a full finnage, and the third was cacat female?
how much you bought them?

----------


## outspoken

Yup it's sold as red-back but it should be Ap. Bitaeniata from Rio Nanay. Price on the high side at $70. Yes the caca female is the third picture. Price is at only $18. I would have grab the Ap. Caca Orange if i had more tanks. Impressive also.

----------


## vic_tan0911

the cacat female seem like male, the color very nice...

----------


## outspoken

Yup the female has good coloration on its fins but it look small in comparison to the male. Lucky get to chose when they just arrive yesterday evening. 15 pairs to chose from so lucky to get
the so called best looking pair. Just when again just now and still have about 8-9 pairs. The Caca Orange is also super bright orange,females are also nice looking.

----------


## mchw8055

Hey guys. Urgent. One of my megaptera male has got a problem. He just can't keep it's mouth shut and he is having difficulty swimming. May I know what type of disease is that?

----------


## vic_tan0911

> Yup the female has good coloration on its fins but it look small in comparison to the male. Lucky get to chose when they just arrive yesterday evening. 15 pairs to chose from so lucky to get
> the so called best looking pair. Just when again just now and still have about 8-9 pairs. The Caca Orange is also super bright orange,females are also nice looking.


hi bro
actually i very afraid to choose female, i always choose the nice color mostly i get the male... :Sad:

----------


## outspoken

Normally this type of disease got to do with the water conditions. Ammonia level or infected with internal disease.

You can try to do a partial water change..20%-30%. better if you have a spare tank to quarantine it.i use melafix. It's a 50-50 chance of survival.

----------


## outspoken

Ap. Caca is quite easy to tell between male and female. And yes mostly male are well colored. If you are not certain then just go for the dull looking with no or hardly any pointed for dorsal or tail and best if you able to see the yellowish breeding mode on the body. 

Normally i will go for the yellowish hint on the body to play safe. Get the most yellow looking. It's female and it's in the mood.

----------


## markvtec2

Thinking of using this model tank for my Aspito pair setup. Which size should I get?

Glassterior Series
Beautiful addition to your interior!

Item nameGlassterior 250Product size25X17X21cmCapacity7.5ℓ


Item nameGlassterior 300Product size30X20X25cmCapacity13ℓ



Item nameGlassterior 450Product size45X20X22cmCapacity17ℓ


Item nameGlassterior Slim 600Product size60X20X25cmCapacity26ℓ


Item nameGlassterior 600Product size60X30X40cmCapacity65ℓ

----------


## outspoken

Actually any one of these will be good for a pair. But if you intend to keep broad body apisto like Ap. Viejita, Ap. Borelli,Ap. Inka then better to get the bigger type.

----------


## mobile2007

Anyone seen those germany hand made apisto cave at any of the LFS ?? or they no longer available in sg ?

----------


## outspoken

Bro, maybe you can post the picture here so those people can identify and update if seen. 
Actually i myself is not sure how this german hand made apisto cave looks like.

----------


## mobile2007

hmm, now i can't find any photo on that. Anyway, those who used it before should know. 





> Bro, maybe you can post the picture here so those people can identify and update if seen. 
> Actually i myself is not sure how this german hand made apisto cave looks like.

----------


## alfredliow316

> Hey guys. Urgent. One of my megaptera male has got a problem. He just can't keep it's mouth shut and he is having difficulty swimming. May I know what type of disease is that?


So far, have not come across a cure for this symptom. The fish will not eat as its jaws appear to be 'locked'. So far it's 100% fatal for my fishes upon such symptoms.

----------


## alfredliow316

> Anyone seen those germany hand made apisto cave at any of the LFS ?? or they no longer available in sg ?


I think most likely the demand is low, thus LFSs do not stock them.

----------


## Luc Tango

the cave you are talking about should be this one? I doubt anybody is bringing them in nowadays. 

[IMG][/IMG]

(picture is by celticfish, mod please remove the link if deemed unacceptable)

edit: and oh silly me, i have a thread with the cave in use... its a pretty old thread though. have a look, these caves are great!

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...sto-Tank/page3

----------


## mobile2007

> I think most likely the demand is low, thus LFSs do not stock them.


Yeah, highly possible. For quite sometimes the apisto scene was very quiet.




> the cave you are talking about should be this one? I doubt anybody is bringing them in nowadays. 
> 
> [IMG][/IMG]
> 
> (picture is by celticfish, mod please remove the link if deemed unacceptable)
> 
> edit: and oh silly me, i have a thread with the cave in use... its a pretty old thread though. have a look, these caves are great!
> 
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...sto-Tank/page3


thanks for the pics, that's the cave i am looking for. Quite expensive compared to other type of cave, but the fish seems to like it very much.  :Smile:

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi, please tell me the left hand side cacat, is male or female?

----------


## Luc Tango

looks like a sneaker male to me.. got clearer pic?

----------


## vic_tan0911

> looks like a sneaker male to me.. got clearer pic?


i have no more other picture.. this picture come from my friend...

----------


## mobile2007

Any LFS got new stock of apisto ??

----------


## outspoken

I Doubt so. C328 may have 1-2 species in the small glass tank.Last Week still the same Ap. Panduro and Ap. Agassizii. Y618 have 3 males of 2 Ap. Caca Orange and 1 Ap. Agassizii Alenquer. JZX still same stock as previously while Aquaone seems to have about 4-5 common species like Ap. Panduro,Ap.Trifasciata,Ap.Agassizii Alenquer,Ap.Viejita,Ap. Borelli & Ap. Caca Orange/Red and some higher price species like Ap. Viejita Gold,Ap. Inka50 and Ap. Bitaeniata RedBack.

I Guess best bet is to wait for JZX to bring in new stock as Aquaone just brought in middle of this month.

----------


## mobile2007

Thanks bro, for the update. 




> I Doubt so. C328 may have 1-2 species in the small glass tank.Last Week still the same Ap. Panduro and Ap. Agassizii. Y618 have 3 males of 2 Ap. Caca Orange and 1 Ap. Agassizii Alenquer. JZX still same stock as previously while Aquaone seems to have about 4-5 common species like Ap. Panduro,Ap.Trifasciata,Ap.Agassizii Alenquer,Ap.Viejita,Ap. Borelli & Ap. Caca Orange/Red and some higher price species like Ap. Viejita Gold,Ap. Inka50 and Ap. Bitaeniata RedBack.
> 
> I Guess best bet is to wait for JZX to bring in new stock as Aquaone just brought in middle of this month.

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro 
may i know aquaone how much per pair Ap. Inka50 and Ap. Bitaeniata RedBack.??

----------


## EdwinTay

hi Guys

I believe that Stones has one of the cheapest apistos around. However, we have to pre-order. The last order (about 2 months ago), I was the only one who ordered. Perhaps we can consolidate our interest & send to Angus so that it's worthwhile for him to order.

I would be interested in at least the following;
1) Viejita Gold
2) Diamond Face
3) Hoignei
4) Uaupesi

----------


## stormhawk

@vic_tan, get a closer shot. It might be a female but to be sure one has to see a clearer pic. At firsf glance I think it's a female.

Regarding the cave, you can get at C328 or at GC. The cave is only suitable for smaller apistos. Others will require larger caves with a bigger opening.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Edwin,
Saw the list of apisto available for pre-order from stones aquarium but wondering can he really bring in those
species like uaupesi and wilhelmi at those prices? Seems like it's not really easy to acquire those species.

By the way,anyone is having Apistogramma Viefleck? My Male just died.

----------


## vic_tan0911

hi bro stormhawk
i dont have the clear pic, the fish from my friend.. can you teach how to see the cacat female without yellow body?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Outspoken

Yes, Stones can bring in. I have just placed order for a few types. Please liaise with Stones. Fish should arrive this Thursday.

----------


## outspoken

Bro Edwin,
Can i know what did you order? I was thinking of ordering wilhelmi but not sure if he can get hold of them and by this thursday is also too late for payment wise.

----------


## stormhawk

> hi bro stormhawk
> i dont have the clear pic, the fish from my friend.. can you teach how to see the cacat female without yellow body?


Hi Vic,

To ID roughly, the female's fins should always be shorter, even the caudal/tail fin. It should not have any extended dorsal rays, maybe 1 or 2 but not all, and especially the first 3-4 rays. Look at this photo to see how an adult female should look like, especially in breeding mood:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1357/1...d1c_z.jpg?zz=1

This photo is not mine, just something I found via Google to illustrate the typical markings on a female. Looking at the dorsal rays will give you a rough idea whether you have a female or a sneaker male. Some strains like Triple Red may produce females that will have some light markings on some fins, but they will almost always have shorter fins than the males.

If you intend to breed these, please do not use those with mouth deformities. Sometimes the farms mass produce these fish without a care for quality and I have come across some deformed fish put out for sale.

----------


## stormhawk

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ma-cacatuoides

Read this thread for more info Vic, an informative post by genes aka Eugene.

----------


## vic_tan0911

ok thank you so much bro...

----------


## cueball

anyone seen any nice male *agassizii for sale lately?*

----------


## outspoken

Think most of the LFS are not bringing any apisto nowadays except for JZX and C328.Aquaone definitely have no stock except for 2 viejita and 1 panduro,boss also give no indication when he will bring in again but won't be so soon. Most probably you will need to order from C328. 2 weeks ago i got myself a pair of Ap. Bitaeniata from there but the male doesn't even survive the trip back home...

----------


## EdwinTay

hi fellow apisto lovers...

I just want to boast a little here....I currently have fries of Mamore (3 mths), Trifasciata (2.5 mths), Hoignei (3 mths), Wilhelmi (2.5 mths), Hoignei again (1 week), Latecara Dorsigera (3 days). So if you all can wait a little longer, maybe got Chinese New Year sales ....

But on a more serious note, I have been promising to invite people over to see my apistos (regretably, I am not good at taking & loading photos). My tanks are a little messy. I will try to clear them up this weekend. Stay tuned.....

----------


## s9534891b

Hi, i would like to have some,what is yr asking price?I currently have some borellis.My contact no is 91219057

----------


## bennyc

> hi fellow apisto lovers...
> 
> I just want to boast a little here....I currently have fries of Mamore (3 mths), Trifasciata (2.5 mths), Hoignei (3 mths), Wilhelmi (2.5 mths), Hoignei again (1 week), Latecara Dorsigera (3 days). So if you all can wait a little longer, maybe got Chinese New Year sales ....
> 
> But on a more serious note, I have been promising to invite people over to see my apistos (regretably, I am not good at taking & loading photos). My tanks are a little messy. I will try to clear them up this weekend. Stay tuned.....


Edwin bro, try to put some photos. As photos are very POISONOUS. Ha

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Bennyc

As mentioned, my photography skills are really bad. If you want to see how my fishes look, just google image Apistogrammas & imagine fishes which look 2 times worse..haha.

Seriously, my tanks are very blur because I put ADA & they cloud the tanks. I have; Elizabethae, Hongsloi, Hoignei, Glaser, Melgar, Mamore, Macmasteri, Viejita Gold, Wilhelmi, Trifasciata, Uaupesi, Baenschi (male only), Caca Triple Red (male only), L. Dorsigera. And, I only change 20% water every 2-3 weeks. This weekend will be the first time in 2 months I am trying to do 100% water change. So, on the flipside, my tanks are blur but my fishes are very healthy because they can tolerate lousy water conditions.

----------


## s9534891b

Nowadays many people always go for balloon or blue rams,most of the time , whenever i go to LFS in markets, i will always see those old uncles(50 and above) will always buy huge amounts of rams.I seriously think that they should go for apisto instead .

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro s9534891b

You are right. Somehow, I never had any luck with balloon rams & other designer rams - they always die on me. End up, they cost more than apistos.

----------


## huhengyi1986

> hi fellow apisto lovers...
> 
> I just want to boast a little here....I currently have fries of Mamore (3 mths), Trifasciata (2.5 mths), Hoignei (3 mths), Wilhelmi (2.5 mths), Hoignei again (1 week), Latecara Dorsigera (3 days). So if you all can wait a little longer, maybe got Chinese New Year sales ....
> 
> But on a more serious note, I have been promising to invite people over to see my apistos (regretably, I am not good at taking & loading photos). My tanks are a little messy. I will try to clear them up this weekend. Stay tuned.....


Nice! How many breeding tanks u got man?

will wait for your cny sales. Interested in a few

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Huhengyi1986

Wait for CNY because most fries very small. Right now, only Mamore & Hoignei fried (about 3 mths) & maybe some Trifasciatas, can be considered saleable....haha

I do have a batch of other Hoignei fries (I think about 40) & Latecara Dorsigera (about 200) but they are still puny & 3 misearble Wilhelmi. And, unfortunately, dwarf cichlid fries grow very slowly.

BTW, I will try to clean my tanks this Saturday. If I can finish, you guys are welcome to visit on Sunday around 2-4 pm. Maybe we can sit around & chat a little after viewing my 30 tanks. I am at Serangoon North.

Please PM me if you are interested to visit. But, if you come, one golden rule - DO NOT MENTION how expensive apistos are - otherwise the next time we meet will be at my funeral.

----------


## venom

> hi bro Huhengyi1986
> 
> Wait for CNY because most fries very small. Right now, only Mamore & Hoignei fried (about 3 mths) & maybe some Trifasciatas, can be considered saleable....haha
> 
> I do have a batch of other Hoignei fries (I think about 40) & Latecara Dorsigera (about 200) but they are still puny & 3 misearble Wilhelmi. And, unfortunately, dwarf cichlid fries grow very slowly.
> 
> BTW, I will try to clean my tanks this Saturday. If I can finish, you guys are welcome to visit on Sunday around 2-4 pm. Maybe we can sit around & chat a little after viewing my 30 tanks. I am at Serangoon North.
> 
> Please PM me if you are interested to visit. But, if you come, one golden rule - DO NOT MENTION how expensive apistos are - otherwise the next time we meet will be at my funeral.


i have evil "thought" now.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom..

don't even think about it. I have already written my will & you are NOT included.

And, if I know my wife, at my funeral, you will be served deep fried Hongsloi, steamed Hoignei etc. Goodness only knows what she will do to my Elizabethae.

----------


## bai

Hi Bro Edwin Tay,

can i visit your place?

----------


## Ken_ng

Wow! Awesome! I'm looking for female german rams and female apisto inka50. Anyone seen them?

----------


## venom

> hi bro Venom..
> 
> don't even think about it. I have already written my will & you are NOT included.
> 
> And, if I know my wife, at my funeral, you will be served deep fried Hongsloi, steamed Hoignei etc. Goodness only knows what she will do to my Elizabethae.


that gonna be expensive dishes..
your elizabethe will put with me..

----------


## huhengyi1986

Hehehe in actually interested in Wilhelmi.

i have about 8-9 little bit taken care by the female. Size about 2-3 mm

----------


## EdwinTay

hi All

bro Bai : Of course you are welcomed. Tentatively, let's set it for 3 pm this Sunday. I believe one or two others will be coming.

bro Ken_ng : I am also looking for Inka female. I have a rather large Inka male. With regards to Rams, they always die on me. It's only recently that I got a pair of wild rams that I had some success keeping them alive - however, they are not that colourful

bro huhengyi1986 : I actually have 3 Wilhelmi fries (3 mths old) & a pair of adults - but I am not letting go. However, you can come to my place & drool over them

bro Venom : please stop trying to get my Elizabethae - you will NOT wear me down....haha

----------


## bai

Thanks Bro Edwin, do message me your address if everything is confirmed.

----------


## s9534891b

Hi sorry, i am unable to come,is there alternative dates where i can come?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi guys

OK, This Sunday 3 pm at my place confirmed. Plz sms me @ 81888037 & identify yourselves so that I can prepare. To entice you guys, I have BOTH Romer books (I bought the last one in Singapore at Green Chapter early this year...haha) It's OK if no buy (because I have only Mamores & Hoignei available anyway) - just come & see see & chit chat. I am trying to revive the apistos interest so that fish shop owners will find it worthwhile to bring in.

bro s9534891b, noted - have already sms you.

----------


## venom

> hi guys
> 
> OK, This Sunday 3 pm at my place confirmed. Plz sms me @ 81888037 & identify yourselves so that I can prepare. To entice you guys, I have BOTH Romer books (I bought the last one in Singapore at Green Chapter early this year...haha) It's OK if no buy (because I have only Mamores & Hoignei available anyway) - just come & see see & chit chat. I am trying to revive the apistos interest so that fish shop owners will find it worthwhile to bring in.
> 
> bro s9534891b, noted - have already sms you.



your elizabethae also available for me..

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

My Elizabethae is under lock & key. Besides, I have insurance - I have another pair in office & I am NOT going to tell you where I work.

----------


## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> My Elizabethae is under lock & key. Besides, I have insurance - I have another pair in office & I am NOT going to tell you where I work.


i going to bring tools along to break your lock.

----------


## Orcishwarrior

cool!! make sure its good quality.  :Grin:

----------


## huhengyi1986

Breed your Wilhelmi Le!
3 months not considered fries liao sub adult ba?
will SMS you later as need to know if my gf is free. If not I will come alone :Smile:

----------


## mkt

HI - wonder if anybody can share any recent experience bringing back apistos from hong kong? or even bangkok
Do you use styrofoam packing box or just plastic bags stuffed into the handcarry onto the plane?
Thanks!

----------


## stormhawk

Get a styrofoam box, some breather bags and rubber bands. Pack the fishes individually in each breather bag with just water and tie it securely with the rubber bands. I usually just make a dead knot and cut the bag when I get back. Wrap each bag with filter wool or newspaper loosely then pack into the box. Make sure everything is secure then seal the box with clear tape. Place in your check-in luggage. You cannot hand-carry the box with you on board the plane so it has to be checked in. Some people use those Coleman cooler boxes with plastic bottles instead.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi All

Many thanks to the guys who came to my house - great meeting you all. Apologies for the rather cloudy water as I just finished cleaning my tanks. Wish we had more time to sit & chat. Good luck on the Trifasciatas.

To bro Huhengyi1986, I think I should be able to get some Wilhelmi fries by Lunar New Year. I have 3 left from a batch (the rest got eaten by the mother) about 3 months' ago but I want to keep them to outcross with the pair of adults which I have.

Also, does anyone know the most common fish on sale not is it Viejita or Macmasteri (I believe they have rounder bodies). The reason for my question is that I have 3 males (which I think are Macmasteris) & I am looking for 3 females.

Finally, I noticed that most apisto keepers prefer thin body types (e.g. Elizabethae). I prefer the broad body types.

bro Venom - I cannot find my female Elizabethae in the office tank. So it's either very good news or very bad news. In any case, you are NOT getting my house Elizabethae.

----------


## huhengyi1986

Common Shld be vijetsh. Sometimes lfs carry them
next time I come visit u lol. Mine showing a few pic of your wilhelmi? Thanks!
Preciouslt my male vijetah on the right and his female on the left

----------


## huhengyi1986

Sharing my horny male when the female is still taking care of the fries... He chased so much the female abandon the fries
and now the fries are on their own. The male keeps harnessing the female. Luckily the tank only have non threatening species like Otto and drawf Cories!

http://youtu.be/5IPwFV6l0wM

----------


## venom

> hi All
> 
> Many thanks to the guys who came to my house - great meeting you all. Apologies for the rather cloudy water as I just finished cleaning my tanks. Wish we had more time to sit & chat. Good luck on the Trifasciatas.
> 
> To bro Huhengyi1986, I think I should be able to get some Wilhelmi fries by Lunar New Year. I have 3 left from a batch (the rest got eaten by the mother) about 3 months' ago but I want to keep them to outcross with the pair of adults which I have.
> 
> Also, does anyone know the most common fish on sale not is it Viejita or Macmasteri (I believe they have rounder bodies). The reason for my question is that I have 3 males (which I think are Macmasteris) & I am looking for 3 females.
> 
> Finally, I noticed that most apisto keepers prefer thin body types (e.g. Elizabethae). I prefer the broad body types.
> ...


no!
how can it be?

----------


## EdwinTay

bro Huhengyi1986 - firstly, I notice you have TWO females......want to trade? But I only have Mamore & Hoigneis to spare. Sorry, no photos of Wilhelmi but you are welcome to my house to see...now the tanks are clearer after my water change.

----------


## huhengyi1986

sold off the trio liao lol... only keeping a pair of breeding Bit with their fries as shown in the video

----------


## EdwinTay

bro Huhengyi1986 - damn!!! I am too late, as usual. But, you are still welcomed to visit me. Just make sure if bro Venom comes, he doesn't get too close to my Elizabethae.

----------


## bai

Thanks for the Trifa......hope it will be 1 male and 2 female. :Grin:

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Bai

No problem - me hope too. I was rather surprised why got 'demand' for Trifa - to me it's a common-looking fish. At first I thought you were selecting for Venom. That's the problem with him...always dilly-dally - especially for the Elizabethae females (of which I have TWO) ....

----------


## bai

He likes to slowly wait so i will just grab those i want.......hehe

My Latecara Dorsigera pair like lay eggs already, cant confirm as its in the cave and looks like the female is guarding it. cause i try see from top and there is orange color like eggs.

Hope really lay eggs and hatch.....hehe

----------


## outspoken

@Edwin,
Bro sorry miss the show last week...been busy with work and kids and sunday is my working day so not free also.
If i'm not wrong,saw 2 viejita at Aquaone last week. Suspect both are female. You can call don and ask to reserve them
if it's true.

Since apisto stock from LFS have been slow,i'm turning to Rams to try out. My german rams from Aquaone are fierce,all my apisto
are hiding in the caves.Already breed 2 times but both times the female ate the fries.Suspect young couple so they will need some 
time to be a good parents.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Bai - Congratulations! My L. Dorsigera left about 50 fries (from over 200) because I disturbed them when changing water. I have not separated the parents from the fries as I like to see their defensive behaviour.

bro Outspoken, thanks for the tip. Will try to go Aquaone (except I do not have transport). Any idea of the price? Also, you are most welcomed to visit, even with yr kids in tow - I love kids.

If you guys are OK, tentatively, maybe can set another date around 28 or 29 December for visit? Ideally, maybe 4-5 guys so that we can chit chat.

----------


## bai

Not confirm yet.....hehe....till i see fries.....hehe :Razz:

----------


## venom

> hi bro Bai
> 
> No problem - me hope too. I was rather surprised why got 'demand' for Trifa - to me it's a common-looking fish. At first I thought you were selecting for Venom. That's the problem with him...always dilly-dally - especially for the Elizabethae females (of which I have TWO) ....


i did not dilly dally on elizabethae. i always check from forum for their fish stock update. but by the time they update, it was like 2-3week ago when the stock came(which you had already got your pairs)

----------


## cueball

if anyone happens to see any LFS selling individual male agassizii super red, please let me know. thanks!

----------


## huhengyi1986

> i did not dilly dally on elizabethae. i always check from forum for their fish stock update. but by the time they update, it was like 2-3week ago when the stock came(which you had already got your pairs)


2 weeks ago I seen Jzx brought in some eliz. 2 pairs, 1 was reserved. $200 for a pair haha

----------


## venom

> 2 weeks ago I seen Jzx brought in some eliz. 2 pairs, 1 was reserved. $200 for a pair haha


i think more longer than 2 weeks ago. when the boss first update the forum on new stock list. i thought really new arrival so faster call and go down but end up no more female. end up know from the boss that the shipment come in weeks earlier but he hardly update forum nowadays..

----------


## huhengyi1986

For wc apisto, I think Jzx has the most varity

----------


## huhengyi1986

OK im sharing stones pre-order stock list for apisto in this post. Will be ordering some stuff from him too. Please follow the instructions as pasted below.  :Smile: 

Dear all,

in order to cater to the needs of our customers, we are now offering our valued customers Corydoras and Cichlids from South American, African,Malawi,Tangayikan listed below.

To order:

-Sms us your orders at 97710501 and wait for our confirmation of availability.

-Upon confirmation, kindly transfer the full amount to our bank account or make payment at our shop via cash, Nets or Visa.

-The fishes will arrive within approximately 7 days upon receipt of payment.

-In the event of death on arrival, the full amount will be refunded.

This thread will be closed in order to keep it clean , Kindly contact us directly @97710501 for any further clarification or enquiries.

Rgds,
Angus

Nannacara adoketa 6cm $28.00
Apistogramma trifasciata, pair price 2.5-3cm $16.00 
Apistogramma agassizi Tefe, pair price 3-4cm $26.00 
Apistogramma megaptera 3-3.5cm $50.00 
Apistogramma megaptera "Spangle" 3-3.5cm $60.00 
Apistogramma agassizii var. Super Red Tail, pair price 3-4cm $16.00 
Apistogramma cacatuoides “Orange”, pair price 3-4cm $10.00 
Apistogramma cacatuoides "triple red", pair price 3-4cm $10.00 
Apistogramma sp. Diamond fac, pair price 3-4cm $50.00 
Apistogramma bitaeniata “TEFE”, Pair price 3-4cm $28.00 
Apistogramma bitaeniata“Mamure”, pair price 3-4cm $28.00 
Apistogramma agassizi var."Gold", pair price 3-4cm $28.00 
Apistogramma sp. "Wilheimi", pair price 3-4cm $28.00 
Apistogramma uaupesi, pair price 3-4cm $35.00 
Apistogramma sp. "Rio Mamore", pair price 3-4cm $28.00 
Etroplus canarensis 7cm $30.00 
*Apistogramma baenschi Inka50, pair price 3-4cm $90
Apistogramma nijsseni, pair price 3-4cm $34
Apistogramma panduro, pair price 3-4cm $32
Nannacara anomala, female 3-4cm $18
Apistogramma trifasciata, pair price 3-4cm $40
Apistogramma viejita "Red", pair price 3-4cm $50
Apistogramma viejita "Yellow", pair price 3-4cm $75
Apistogramma hongsloi II, pair price 3-4cm $90
Apistogramma hoignei 3-4cm $40
*-All Orders are to be SMS (no whatsapp,PM or email please, for easy collation) to 97710501 in the following format:
*
Customer's Name/Order/Size/Unit Price x Qty/Contact

eg.

Tan/Cichla Kelberi/10cm/$280 x 10/91234567


-This is an on-going order, with new arrivals added every 2 weeks or when there are new stocks available.

-Every Friday will be the cut-off date for orders to be collated and sent to our supplier for confirmation.

-Orders placed by Friday will be ready for collection on Every Tuesday or Thursday unless stated otherwise. Those that did not meet the cut-off date will be scheduled for the next following week arrival.

-Upon confirmation of orders, the full amount will have to be transferred via I-banking to :

POSB Savings acct 194-28356-3

Before Monday 1200h.*

----------


## bai

updates: finally saw the fries hatch, 1 accidentally swim out of cave when i use light to shine in the cave.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Huhengyi1986 - I believe Stones needs critical mass before placing order. Please sms me for explanation. (I will not be accessing my e-mail again today)

bro bai - congratulations. I just saw another batch of eggs for my Hoignei pair (the small ones you saw on Sunday) - damn!! They are sure horny.

All bros - I do have some spare Mamore & Hoignei to let go.

----------


## venom

> hi bro Huhengyi1986 - I believe Stones needs critical mass before placing order. Please sms me for explanation. (I will not be accessing my e-mail again today)
> 
> bro bai - congratulations. I just saw another batch of eggs for my Hoignei pair (the small ones you saw on Sunday) - damn!! They are sure horny.
> 
> All bros - I do have some spare Mamore & Hoignei to let go.



when can i collect the elizabethae female?  :Grin:

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

What Elizabethae female? You mean the one in my house or the one in my office - sorry I have grown very attached to them.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bros

Please re-visit apistogramma.weebly.com - set up by bro Scope who is in semi-retirement but very informative & still current. I still remember some of the fishes he brought in such as Guttata, Tucurui & an extra large Baenschi.

Hats off to bro Scope.

----------


## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> What Elizabethae female? You mean the one in my house or the one in my office - sorry I have grown very attached to them.


either 1 that you can let me have it  :Well done:

----------


## bai

> either 1 that you can let me have it


please wait long long........haha

----------


## huhengyi1986

Bro Edwin, there was once I ordered only 4 adoketa and I got them
within a week. I think there are weekly or monthly delivery from his supplier so stones are able to tag onto the shipment and sent it, can SMS stones and ask him haha. Might be getting 4 wilhime as no one else seems to carry them except u. But yours are not for sale lol

if anyone have pebas I will buy from them. Miss my old pair tt passed away which I got from Jzx sometime back. Damn nice and colourful

----------


## outspoken

@Bro Edwin,
If i'm not wrong the price should be $28 per pair if according to last time...maybe can bargain abit if both seems female.
He also have a female panduro and another lonely krib. Most probably he will not be bringing in for quite some time.

By the way can PM me the price you are selling for the Mamore..red tail right?

----------


## EdwinTay

bro Huhengyi1986 & outspoken

I just sms Stones for my 'usual' massive order including Viejita Yellow, Wilhelmi (I want to outcross), sp. Diamond Face etc. etc. Sadly, my order was too slow for my Christmas presents.

Stones is quite reliable (except that they always bring in less fish than I ordered...haha) but we must understand that they are more into monster fish. So apistos are a 'by-product". I can understand if they are reluctant to get in just one or two for an individual.

I still have a pair of large Adoketa which I got from Stones 'by accident' about 5 months ago. They are doing well in my office 2 ft tank & has recently shown mating signs.

----------


## s9534891b

You can also call up AG pets which is at lor 4 toa payoh(the one beside zheng guo cheng's shop),maybe they will bring in,cause one tiome i read the lianhe zaobao lifestyle session, they said that, whatever fish the customers like, they will order and their contact number is 62532580

----------


## leonard6july

> bro Huhengyi1986 & outspoken
> 
> I just sms Stones for my 'usual' massive order including Viejita Yellow, Wilhelmi (I want to outcross), sp. Diamond Face etc. etc. Sadly, my order was too slow for my Christmas presents.
> 
> Stones is quite reliable (except that they always bring in less fish than I ordered...haha) but we must understand that they are more into monster fish. So apistos are a 'by-product". I can understand if they are reluctant to get in just one or two for an individual.
> 
> I still have a pair of large Adoketa which I got from Stones 'by accident' about 5 months ago. They are doing well in my office 2 ft tank & has recently shown mating signs.


Bro Edwin,
Can you share the size of the tank and parameters required for your Adoketa? Many months ago, I saw a bunch of Adoketa at Stones, but they looked washed out and different from the Adoketa pics on google. What do yours look after 5 months?

----------


## Neebs

Dear Bros,
I need to find a Inka (Apisto Beanschi) male or a pair to replace the male I had for last 4 months whom is suicide 3 days ago.
I had check the JZX which I had them months ago but they don't have stock available now.

Noted that Stone do take pre-order and I still haven't check with them yet. Do anyone know will they going to place order soon?

----------


## EdwinTay

bro Neebs - I have a large male Baenschi (from Stone's last batch) - I need a female. So HOW????

----------


## EdwinTay

bro leonard6july

Bro Edwin,
Can you share the size of the tank and parameters required for your Adoketa? Many months ago, I saw a bunch of Adoketa at Stones, but they looked washed out and different from the Adoketa pics on google. What do yours look after 5 months?

My 2 ft tank is the normal one with plastic trimmings. The Adoketas are the larger ones which Stones brought in & when they arrived they were white with a pinkish hue. But,they are very healthy now & living harmoniously. I did not do anything special. Unfortunately, I have no photos but, if you are working around International Plaza, you are welcome to take a look.

----------


## stormhawk

Fish at the LFS are usually washed out due to the simple setups they are kept in. The colors show themselves once the fish are settled in well in proper water conditions, eating properly and showing spawning behavior.

----------


## sakuras

Hi guys may I know where to buy the more common apistos like cacatuoides and veijita? Tried JZX but they don't seem to carry the ones im looking for.

----------


## Neebs

Bro Edwin,
Please show me your big build Inka here.

----------


## Lucrado

I happened to see JZX's update on another forum and they brought in new stocks : Apisto Elizabethae and Adoketa.

----------


## Neebs

Yes, I saw the apisto Elizabethae and it look very elegant.
If my apisto is not keep dying, I will take it.  :Smile:

----------


## s9534891b

Go and call stones aquarium.

----------


## stormhawk

You have an update on Stones Aquarium's availability list?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Neebs - sorry, no photos. But, as I said, you are more than welcomed to visit me.

All bros - Stones not bringing in till next year.

----------


## venom

got myself a pair of hongsloi II from JZX... cant resist this pair as the colour was so beautiful..
female colour changed since after getting into the temporary tank.. used to be yellowish..

----------


## s9534891b

How big your tank?

----------


## venom

> How big your tank?


its a 2ft tank. 
gonna shift them to 1ft soon.

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

the JZX Hongsloi (which I persuaded you to buy) has a unique trait - the female, when in heat, turns a little red, instead of bright yellow. If you noticed, the dorsal of the male is redder than normal.

I am looking for another morph of Hongsloi in which the yellow of the head extends to about 1/3 the body - it's very distinctive. I have only seen them once - many years ago at Mizo Mondo (or something like that).

----------


## joopsg

The morph of Hongsloi should be Hongsloi II. 
Edwin, it has been a while we see hongsloi 3 in our location.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Yes - sigh............

I am more into the broad body apistos such as Hongsloi, Hoignei, MacMasteri, Viejita...even Eunotus.

----------


## joopsg

Hi Edwin, you should try Apistogramma Barlowi or Apistogramma Breitinden as well.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Got a female Breitbinden & (I think) a female megaptera spangle. Looking for Barlowi because I like mouthbrooders

----------


## joopsg

Once owned a pair... really happy about it because quite rare.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## s9534891b

anyway just to clarify only, apistogramma breeding tank minimum 10-20 gallons tank is it acceptable?

----------


## joopsg

I would recommend at least a 1.5ft. Tank small, water parameters hard to control.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## joopsg

If space is a constraint, can try slender body ones like trifisciata, bit, anomala pair.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## EdwinTay

hi guys

I put my pairs in Gex S tanks (I believe 12 inches in length) with airstone, ADA soil, some java fern tied to wood, a cave/ pot. It works very well. I don't even have to change water for 1-2 months. Now my Latercara Dorsigera has spawned again. So far, I have; Mamore, Trifasciata, Hoignei, Hongsloi, Wilhelmi & Dorsigera spawns. The only apistos I have problems with in small tank are Bitaeniatas. I even put my Adoketas in an Ocean Free small tank (slightly larger than Gex) & they live harmoniously (albeit, no spawn). My Trifasciatas (1 male & 2 females) were put in an Ocean Free tank & one of the females spawned & I kept the fries in the tank for more than a month (no casualties).

----------


## mordrake

Anyone knows which lfs has stock for caca pairs? Thanks

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro mordrake

Stones (at Sin Ming) brings in - but you have to pre-order

----------


## mordrake

> hi bro mordrake
> 
> Stones (at Sin Ming) brings in - but you have to pre-order


Angus? Ok will check with him if can't find in the shops today. Thanks  :Smile:

----------


## s9534891b

CaCa can put into Gex s tanks to spawn or not?

----------


## stormhawk

A. cacatuoides are larger in size, so I would recommend at least a 2 feet tank. Territorial disputes aside, Size S may work in some cases but some people may get different results. Size M would be alright for most breeding projects. Then again aggression seems to differ between individuals. However, for most breeding projects, a 2ft tank would be suitable for most needs, as it gives the most space available for the fry to roam around and grow up with the mother and a safe area for the males to remain within the same tank. As with all Apistos, depth is not important, what is important is "floor space". Give them a wide but shallow tank and they will be happy.

----------


## joopsg

Agreed with stormhawk. 

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## s9534891b

But for agassizi is it ok?

----------


## stormhawk

Might work for agassizii if you're talking about Size S tanks. Just need more hiding places and some dither fish to diffuse the aggression, in case the pair spawns.

----------


## s9534891b

i not sure if can buy one 2 feet tank, put 3 dividers,3 flower pots or sorts of hiding stuffs and let them do the job is it ok that way?

----------


## illumnae

I've used 1ft cube tanks to breed agassizi, cacatuoides and bitaeniata before. Larger floor area than a Gex S size tank, but smaller than 2ft. Other harder to breed species I've preferred to use 1.5-2ft

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bros

My two cents worth on tank size for breeding;
1) minimum 1 ft with hiding places,
2) not recommended to partition bigger tanks (tried that & did not work) - spread diseases, sometimes fish escape from one partitioned area to another, fish spend more time flaring at each other than mating
3) Having said that, partitioned 2 ft tank (into 3) actually contains more volume of water than 1 ft tank

----------


## s9534891b

anyway may thank consist of a canister filter so usually if want to breed apsitogramma minimum, canister minimum must wash how many times per month? Cause recently i hav lost many apistos due to intestine problems, so i wonder if the root of the problem is the canister?

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

Have you fed any live food, in particular tubifex, to your apistos?

----------


## s9534891b

the I 've feed worse is red blood worms.But not on.y this apistogramma have problems even keyhole have stringy faeces.

----------


## illumnae

The problem isn't the canister. You should deworm all your tanks

----------


## venom

went to c328 just now.
was looking for apisto cave but was told by auntie that there is a guy bought all the caves.
kind of disappointed..

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Not me.....

Seriously, are you sure it's apistos cave? Maybe pleco.

I saw quite a lot (rectangluar ones etc.) going for $6 each at Aquastar last Friday.

----------


## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> Not me.....
> 
> Seriously, are you sure it's apistos cave? Maybe pleco.
> 
> I saw quite a lot (rectangluar ones etc.) going for $6 each at Aquastar last Friday.



yes... i m sure...
those like coconut shell with a small hole...

----------


## sen_jie

Happy New Year to all apistogramma keeper. May we keep the interest of this cute little fish alive!

Anyway i am giving away a 2.5ft driftwood. Priority will be given to Apistogramma keeper  :Smile: 

Cheers
Sen_Jie

----------


## s9534891b

anyway, i have 2 10 gallon tank but one of it was super glued because of leakage so liddat will affect the fish /apisto or not?

----------


## s9534891b

http://singapore.gumtree.sg/c-Stuff-...AdIdZ530703422
will this tank be able to breed apistogramma? Mines look like this.

----------


## venom

> http://singapore.gumtree.sg/c-Stuff-...AdIdZ530703422
> will this tank be able to breed apistogramma? Mines look like this.


yes bro. your tank is 2ft in length right?

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## stormhawk

If you have super glue on the tank, let it fully cure then wash clean with water. Once fully cured the superglue, if it is cyanoacrylate, will be like a hard piece of plastic and safe for the fish. I use regular super glue one time and had no problems.

Bowfront tanks like the one in advert are fine for breeding apistos, except that when taking photos, the curvature of the glass may cause some strange effects, especially if you have a flash.

----------


## stormhawk

As for caves, if your tank has a lot of driftwood etc with many hiding places, they do not need a cave to spawn. Some apistos will lay their eggs on the underside of an overhanging piece of wood, or on leaf litter, if you have ketapang leaves all over the place. I've seen a female agassizii depositing eggs on a piece of plastic in a bare tank, like what angelfish do with their breeding slates.

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## s9534891b

should be 2

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## stormhawk

Get a measuring tape and just measure the tank. If it's 60 cm or slightly more, it's 2 feet in length.

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## s9534891b

if less that 2 feet still can breed? Mines is 43 cm.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Bai

Oh...you mean that guy who wanted my Wilhelmi? Well...I can consider trading my Wilhelmi for the kid...

But seriously, I just lost my Wilhelmi....Going to get more soon.....They are actually very nice fishes.

----------


## venom

> if less that 2 feet still can breed? Mines is 43 cm.


yes.
like edwin had already said.. he managed to breed a number of apisto in just 1ft tank.
i myself had breed apisto trifa in around 1.5ft tank.

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## bai

> hi bro Bai
> 
> Oh...you mean that guy who wanted my Wilhelmi? Well...I can consider trading my Wilhelmi for the kid...
> 
> But seriously, I just lost my Wilhelmi....Going to get more soon.....They are actually very nice fishes.


Yes that's his son.

Oh the Wilhelmina offspring or adult die?

----------


## s9534891b

anyway i have order some of the species of apistogramma from stones as stated few pages back, so next wk is the arrival date of the stock right?

----------


## EdwinTay

hi bro Bai

The pair. The 3 F2 Wilhelmis still alive (but I have not sexed them). I am not intending to boast here but, the fishes I breed are very strong...because I seldom change water & they have to "live with it"....haha. I have seldom seen them die. I believe that those which do not survive become fish food......

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## joopsg

Just received PM from aquarist chamber. They have adoketas, Elizabethae, Elizabethae red, Welhemi, Megaptera, Megaptera Red and agassizi gold.

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## s9534891b

Stones Message me just now

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## huhengyi1986

> Just received PM from aquarist chamber. They have adoketas, Elizabethae, Elizabethae red, Welhemi, Megaptera, Megaptera Red and agassizi gold.
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


New lfs yea? What's the address?

----------


## s9534891b

Following new arrivals :Nanacara Anomala pair at $36.Apistogramma Piauiensis $45 .dicrossus maculatus $60 .apistogramma jurensis $65. Apistogramma sp maulbruter $65.

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## joopsg

> New lfs yea? What's the address?


Hell yeah dude. 
787A Upper Serangoon Road.

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## joopsg

> Following new arrivals :Nanacara Anomala pair at $36.Apistogramma Piauiensis $45 .dicrossus maculatus $60 .apistogramma jurensis $65. Apistogramma sp maulbruter $65.


Edwin, Barlowi is coming..... real juruensis or sp black chin? 

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## benjamin216

Stones still do take orders?

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## huhengyi1986

> Following new arrivals :Nanacara Anomala pair at $36.Apistogramma Piauiensis $45 .dicrossus maculatus $60 .apistogramma jurensis $65. Apistogramma sp maulbruter $65.


From ztones? Will drop by to take a look. Tank empty lol



> Hell yeah dude. 
> 787A Upper Serangoon Road.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Thanks! Will check it out soon.

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## bai

> hi bro Bai
> 
> The pair. The 3 F2 Wilhelmis still alive (but I have not sexed them). I am not intending to boast here but, the fishes I breed are very strong...because I seldom change water & they have to "live with it"....haha. I have seldom seen them die. I believe that those which do not survive become fish food......


sad the pair die, by the way how much does a pair of Wilhelmi cost?

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## joopsg

Aquarist Chamber selling @ $80/ pair. Just to clarify i am not related to them.

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## bai

> Aquarist Chamber selling @ $80/ pair. Just to clarify i am not related to them.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


wow....that price is super high.

Bro huhengyi1986 posted in #493 pre-order from Stone Aquarium only cost $28 for a pair.

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## joopsg

Well they posted the pictures of their stock in the forum if you keen take a look first. 

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## bai

Forget to state that I'm not related to Stone Aquarium in any ways.

Just start this hobby not long.

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## joopsg

We understand when we start we do not want to invest. But think back if the fish is good and healthy why worry. When the old Biotope open we flocked in whenever new stock arrive and price also not going cheap but new hobbyist still will buy as quality is there.

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## huhengyi1986

> Well they posted the pictures of their stock in the forum if you keen take a look first. 
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


saw the pcis damn niceeee

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## s9534891b

Hi, may i check if it is okay to use bare tanks to breed apistogramma with some hiding spaces provided? thanks.The other thing is what type of gravel/plants r sutable for breeding apistogrammas.

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## joopsg

Would spawn apistogrammas with ada soil. Plant will be java fern or moss.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

I am really confused with regards to the mouthbrooders, there are; Barlowi, Maulbreuter, sp. Diamond Face & Glaser (and I suspect more). I think they may be the same fish because they really look similar.

You are right about quality etc. What I usually do is to ask importers the indicative prices & size & remind them to try to make sure condition OK (but no guarantee). Once I place order, there is no turning back - it's not fair for the importers & in the long run, will kill the hobby.

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## stormhawk

> Hi, may i check if it is okay to use bare tanks to breed apistogramma with some hiding spaces provided? thanks.The other thing is what type of gravel/plants r sutable for breeding apistogrammas.


Bare bottom may work with commercially bred apistos, but seldom with wild-caught fish. Majority would use ADA Africana, for the particular pH it buffers the water to, or opt for sand bottoms with peat bags. For plants you can opt for larger Echinodorus species, or just floating plants as they prefer shaded setups. Mosses are good too, if you don't want a biotope-correct setup. Some are perfectly fine with no plants, and just a layer of ketapang leaves as leaf litter for them to hide.

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## stormhawk

For A. barlowi/ "Maulbrüter"/ "Glaser:

http://apisto.sites.no/fish.aspx?Fis...378&gruppeId=1

From the information given, this species would be happy in a tank that uses rainwater or distilled water.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Stormhawk

Thanks for the info. But, I do not have the luxury because "got mosquitos" quote, unqoute my wife.

By the way, still very very confused as to apistos names. In addition to the mouthbrooders having same names, I believe Wilhelmi is also known by another name & also Mamore. And, I recently came across internet articles stating that Megapteera & Breitbinden are the same fish.

Then again, this confusing names syndrome also holds true for guppy & betta morphs.

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## venom

recently i bought a pack of ketapang leaves from c328.. after few days of usage in the tank, i found there are slimy growth on the leaf.. is it safe to use?

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## s9534891b

That time i get from qian hu, they give it to me free of charge not only that, they give me alot.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Ketapang leaves;

1. can pick up near fish farm. Those on sale as Miracle leaves are very expensive,
2. For usage, try my method - soak ketapang leaves together with peat in a squirt bottle (in my case, I also put anti-chrorine & antichromine) for a few days. Squirt the water out. This method can help control the amount of ketapang juice & peat (i.e. ph) & does not cloud the water. You also will not get the leaves disintegrating & cannot see the apistos. Ketapang leaves can get slimy & also emit some kind of oil (which I believe is harmless).

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## s9534891b

Can use plastic plants as a substitute?

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## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> Ketapang leaves;
> 
> 1. can pick up near fish farm. Those on sale as Miracle leaves are very expensive,
> 2. For usage, try my method - soak ketapang leaves together with peat in a squirt bottle (in my case, I also put anti-chrorine & antichromine) for a few days. Squirt the water out. This method can help control the amount of ketapang juice & peat (i.e. ph) & does not cloud the water. You also will not get the leaves disintegrating & cannot see the apistos. Ketapang leaves can get slimy & also emit some kind of oil (which I believe is harmless).


the purpose of using ketapang leaves is for apisto to have more hideout.
i dont mind getting my water yellowish.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Ketapang turn water very very brown. And, when the leaves disintegrate, it is very messy. I find that apistos do not need too many hiding places. You saw my set-up - they work fine.

But, from my experience, ketapang leaves do have some medicinal value - they seem to inhibit virus/ bacteria growth. This is the main purpose why I put the leaves.

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## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> Ketapang turn water very very brown. And, when the leaves disintegrate, it is very messy. I find that apistos do not need too many hiding places. You saw my set-up - they work fine.
> 
> But, from my experience, ketapang leaves do have some medicinal value - they seem to inhibit virus/ bacteria growth. This is the main purpose why I put the leaves.



that is my purpose... multi usage of ketapang leaf..

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## joopsg

> that is my purpose... multi usage of ketapang leaf..





> hi bro Stormhawk
> 
> Thanks for the info. But, I do not have the luxury because "got mosquitos" quote, unqoute my wife.
> 
> By the way, still very very confused as to apistos names. In addition to the mouthbrooders having same names, I believe Wilhelmi is also known by another name & also Mamore. And, I recently came across internet articles stating that Megapteera & Breitbinden are the same fish.
> 
> Then again, this confusing names syndrome also holds true for guppy & betta morphs.


Well both maulbruter and welhemi got renamed in 2012 or 2013 to Apisto Barlowi and A. abacaxis. At the same time Inka got renamed to A. Baeschi and Nannacara Adoketa became Ivanacara Adoketa. A. Strawberry got named A. Fresa.

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## joopsg

Megapetra could be a mixed from breitbinden as the body shape not same. But i seen some photos of the Megapetra they developed quite similar to Breitbinden.

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## illumnae

I believe A. sp. wilhelmi has not been described yet. Its alternative name is A. sp. Abacaxis based on one of its collection localities. A. sp maulbruter was described as A. barlowi in 2008. A. sp. Strawberry aka A. sp. Fresa aka A. sp. Diamond (and several other names) was described as A. eremnopyge and A. sp Inka was described as A. baenschi both in 2004. The reclassification of Nannacara adoketa to Ivanacara adoketa should have been sometime in 2007.

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## joopsg

> I believe A. sp. wilhelmi has not been described yet. Its alternative name is A. sp. Abacaxis based on one of its collection localities. A. sp maulbruter was described as A. barlowi in 2008. A. sp. Strawberry aka A. sp. Fresa aka A. sp. Diamond (and several other names) was described as A. eremnopyge and A. sp Inka was described as A. baenschi both in 2004. The reclassification of Nannacara adoketa to Ivanacara adoketa should have been sometime in 2007.


Thanks for the clarification. 

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## mobile2007

New stock just arrived in JZX. Not sure what they got. Those interested can check it out.

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## huhengyi1986

> New stock just arrived in JZX. Not sure what they got. Those interested can check it out.


ok gg tomorrow afternoon

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## s9534891b

Beside ada africana what type of 
other soils may do?

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## s9534891b

source://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151953191528541&set=gm.666035400086203&type=1&theater

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## stormhawk

A. piaroa is something else from the pertensis group, and will not resemble any of the Breitbinden "forms". Thread below shows wild-caught A. piaroa, with the trademark orange margin to the dorsal fin, from where they received the trade name "Orangesaum" from the Germans. Based on the study, piaroa is A151.

http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/in...-please.10258/

This other link I posted some days ago:

http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/in...olombia.12494/

This is a confusing thing for people right now.

I remember Edwin mentioned sp. "Diamond Face" aka sp. "Kelleri". This one is related to barlowi but not the same species. Apistogramma barlowi is from the Rio Ampiyacu close to Pebas, A sp. "Diamond Face" aka "Kelleri" is from a location near to Leticia, Colombia. Here's a distribution map I made, using Google Maps:

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## EdwinTay

hi all bros

STOP CONFUSING ME!!!

But seriously, thanks for the info (overload). I believe somewhere in this forum someone has a list of apistos. Could some senior brothers (e.g. Stormhawk) update - to include alternative names.

The added problem is that there are several different naturally-occurring morphs.

Side point : I am glad there is some revival of interest in aipstos. If only bro Scope were still in the game.

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## illumnae

> New stock just arrived in JZX. Not sure what they got. Those interested can check it out.


I think they have Apistogramma elizabethae, Crenicichla regani "Tapajos" and Crenicichla sp Orinocco/Inirida (commonly falsely sold as Crenicichla notophthalmus by other LFS).

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## illumnae

> hi all bros
> 
> STOP CONFUSING ME!!!
> 
> But seriously, thanks for the info (overload). I believe somewhere in this forum someone has a list of apistos. Could some senior brothers (e.g. Stormhawk) update - to include alternative names.
> 
> The added problem is that there are several different naturally-occurring morphs.
> 
> Side point : I am glad there is some revival of interest in aipstos. If only bro Scope were still in the game.


I don't think the list on this forum is exhaustive. If really interested, perhaps you can invest in some resources such as Uwe Romer's Cichlid Atlas (get Vol 1, though outdated it is more accurate - Vol 2 has many mistakes and translation omissions) or the apistogramma Aqualogs. The more recent information can be obtained online - apistogramma.com and the British Cichlid Association forums are very good resources.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Illumnae

I got both Romer books & the Aqualog - too lazy to read, just see pictures. Occasionally read just before I sleep - good cure for insomnia.

I think apistos are still relative new fishes & the Amazon is a large water system - so still many new species to discover. I read in the Romer book that some apistos were discovered in small drains & canals. I presume because they are relatively small fishes, they tend not to be in the main rivers etc.

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## huhengyi1986

Sharing with everyone one of my fav sites when looking for diff types of apisto pics


http://apisto.sites.no/slekt.aspx?gruppeID=1

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## joopsg

Anybody went to stones to see the new arrival? If possible take some photos of mouthbrooder please.


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## huhengyi1986

> I think they have Apistogramma elizabethae, Crenicichla regani "Tapajos" and Crenicichla sp Orinocco/Inirida (commonly falsely sold as Crenicichla notophthalmus by other LFS).


Only apisto is eliz

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## stormhawk

@Edwin, I will try to update the list as soon as possible.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro joopsg - I think shipment delayed.

bro Stormhawk - many, many thanks.

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## joopsg

Roger that edwin.

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## apisto31

Anybody saw female Inka somewhere? My female just committed suicide.  :Grin:

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## s9534891b

Try to email tropical fish international at [email protected] they will ask supplier to order.

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## huhengyi1986

> Try to email tropical fish international at [email protected] they will ask supplier to order.


How's the reputation? 

Prevuoualy I wanted to order from apistohk but other members have posted negative feedbacks. Currently we can only depend on the lfs to bring in the diff variants

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## mobile2007

Looking for a simple pair of bitaeniata like what i used to have

Picture013Small.jpg

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## Lucrado

> How's the reputation? 
> 
> Prevuoualy I wanted to order from apistohk but other members have posted negative feedbacks. Currently we can only depend on the lfs to bring in the diff variants


I'm not so sure how is the quality like now but I did purchase from Tropical Fish International before in 2011..
I bought wild bettas and a male apistogramma pertensis from them as my wild male died.
The apisto was quite good in terms of quality and price, although it came with very short ventral fins.
It spawned with my wild female though.

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## s9534891b

> How's the reputation? 
> 
> Prevuoualy I wanted to order from apistohk but other members have posted negative feedbacks. Currently we can only depend on the lfs to bring in the diff variants


you can also try to ask qian hu http://www.qianhufish.com/fish-catalogue/cichlids.That time i managed to get some borelli from them.Good quality stuff but the only problem i encounter is that when i called and enquire about apisto,many staff don't even know what is it.

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## stormhawk

I did see young borelli at the fish sale area at Qian Hu on 1st Jan when I was there to get other stuff. I did not buy them because I could not sex them with 100% certainty. They are cheap though.

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## EdwinTay

hi all

The Chinese name for apistos is : Duan Tiao (apologies, my mandarin & pin yin very bad)

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## joopsg

You got it right, Edwin. I am hoping to make a comeback....

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Hey, I thought we are supposed to meet.

Anyway, I am going to clean out my 30 tanks this Saturday. If OK, I welcome you guys to visit again on 17 January (next Saturday). We can shoot the breeze at my place. Any indicative interest?

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## s9534891b

i would like to come

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## s9534891b

> I did see young borelli at the fish sale area at Qian Hu on 1st Jan when I was there to get other stuff. I did not buy them because I could not sex them with 100% certainty. They are cheap though.


Just buy 7-8. slowly some will start to pair off.

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## joopsg

> hi bro Joopsg
> 
> Hey, I thought we are supposed to meet.
> 
> Anyway, I am going to clean out my 30 tanks this Saturday. If OK, I welcome you guys to visit again on 17 January (next Saturday). We can shoot the breeze at my place. Any indicative interest?


Hey Edwin, yeah. I supposed so but anyone have any amazonia aquasoil to spare. Need for 1ft cube tank only. Any wood or java moss also help.

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## joopsg

Edwin, clean out tanks mean we can go there to scoop fish right?

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## mobile2007

Well, it's actually : Duan Diao 短鲷 . Not really means apisto, duan diao is referring to dwarf cichlids. 

However, there is no specific translation for apisto in chinese. So, people used the word duan diao. 






> hi all
> 
> The Chinese name for apistos is : Duan Tiao (apologies, my mandarin & pin yin very bad)

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## joopsg

I doubt local lfs will know unless they deal with taiwan or hongkong suppliers.

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## EdwinTay

Yes...I got spare Hoignei & Mamore FOR SALE. But, the main purpose is for us apistos fanatics to meet up.

But, remember...NO TELLING MY WIFE HOW MUCH apistos cost.

and....bro Venom is to stay at least 5 feet away from my Elizabethae.

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## joopsg

Bro venom, what is your offer? I help you catch? I will go catch his adoketas.

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## joopsg

> Yes...I got spare Hoignei & Mamore FOR SALE. But, the main purpose is for us apistos fanatics to meet up.
> 
> But, remember...NO TELLING MY WIFE HOW MUCH apistos cost.
> 
> and....bro Venom is to stay at least 5 feet away from my Elizabethae.


Edwin, i am already so whenever i am going to buy fish. I most likely will quote lower by 25% or more. Haha. But the main problem is when they buy their things we cannot ask.

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## EdwinTay

Luckily...my adoketas are in my office...as with one pair each of my Hongsloi & Elizabethae.

BTW I just cleaned my office tank & found one miserable Hongsloi fry hiding among the plants

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## joopsg

Damn!!! What other fishes you have?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Let me see.....Elizabethae, Viejita Gold, Hongsloi, Hoignei, Melgar, Wilhelmi, Uaupesi, Mamore, Trifasciata, Glaser, MacMasteri, L. Dorsigera, I. Adoketa. I just sold my big Baenschi male to another brother who has the female.

Still looking for more...I prefer the broad body type.

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## joopsg

Try breitbinden? 

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Breitbinden ...akan datang.

Still confused if Breitbinden is Megaptera - I think it is.

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## joopsg

Saw some resemblance.

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## joopsg

Want to go take a look?

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## venom

haha..
bro joopsg..
just quote me a good price when you able to net the elizabethae(especially the female).

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## chuakboon

can i know anyone spot caca triple red?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg : saw already - I think I was the first one to see....

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## EdwinTay

> Edwin, i am already so whenever i am going to buy fish. I most likely will quote lower by 25% or more. Haha. But the main problem is when they buy their things we cannot ask.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


hi bro Joopsg - I correct you. When they buy things AND want us to pay - no matter how expensive, it's always VERY CHEAP.......as long as we pay.

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## joopsg

Hahaha.... nice one. And everytime discounted price.

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## markvtec2

Update from JZX 
Apistogramma Hongsloi II "German Bred"
Apistogramma Elizabethae "Red Belly" "German Bred" **NEW!**

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## joopsg

Any picture?

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## markvtec2

No picture just saw their forum post.

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## zonkkie

Sharing the Hongsloi II male I got from JZX:



And the Wilhelmi from AC:

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## huhengyi1986

You got the only pair at Aquarist chamber?

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## zonkkie

I believe AC brought in 2 pairs.

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## joopsg

Was there yesterday to get aquasoil. Saw a pair of welhemi.

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## mobile2007

Very nice wilhelmi you got from AC.  :Smile:  The color on the finnage is really nice.






> Sharing the Hongsloi II male I got from JZX:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Wilhelmi from AC:

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## joopsg

As mentioned, there is one more at AC. Grab it if you want.

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## s9534891b

Anyone know if stones aquarium is open today ? called their numbers but nobody pick up.

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## stormhawk

That piece from AC is very nice. Good catch zonkkie.

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## EdwinTay

hi bros

OK, tanks cleaned. This Sunday, 19 January @ 3.00 p.m. my place. Any takers?

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## joopsg

Edwin, never put address how i know whether i can anot...at least location..

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## joopsg

Looking for a pair of adoketas now... anyone can spare one pair from your collection?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

My house is at Serangoon North Avenue 4. But...my Adoketa is in my office...haha

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## joopsg

Today monday leh.. you can bring them back what..

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Well, if you are in town, you are welcome to pay me a visit. I just cleaned my office tanks too.

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## joopsg

I bring bag and net as well.. haha...

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Damn.. first it's bro Venom, now you!!!! What's with apistos keepers - not enough fish in Singapore is it?

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## joopsg

Yeah man.. no enough exotic ones....

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## joopsg

Chill bro, i know you fought hard to get them. Just kidding with you. Just looking something exotic for my only tank.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg..... sms me @ 81888037. I may be able to help you on yr Adoketa

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## zonkkie

> That piece from AC is very nice. Good catch zonkkie.


thanks bro... yea, love this pair. Personally find them nicer than some more expensive ones...

oh.. and something else happen at AC today. Megapteras Super Red laid eggs while still in the shop! Sometimes really no need much decors for them.. no caves, no ketapang leaves, no moss....

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## joopsg

Well like the male on the right side of the tank as his dorsal is well developed.

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## s9534891b

I just set up this though alot of work still have not done yet.

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## joopsg

Keep it as simple as possible.


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## joopsg

Anybody know whether got any shipment arrived at stones today??

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## zonkkie

was not there but stocklist has bitaeniata, caca, wilhelmi, megaptera, aga and viejita.

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## zonkkie

ooops, all the stones one are preorders.

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## huhengyi1986

> ooops, all the stones one are preorders.


Got a guy ordered 3 pairs of wilhime ! If is a member here can share some pics?

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## huhengyi1986

> OK im sharing stones pre-order stock list for apisto in this post. Will be ordering some stuff from him too. Please follow the instructions as pasted below. 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> in order to cater to the needs of our customers, we are now offering our valued customers Corydoras and Cichlids from South American, African,Malawi,Tangayikan listed below.
> 
> To order:
> 
> -Sms us your orders at 97710501 and wait for our confirmation of availability.
> ...


Any one ordered from stones? Pre order Shipment just arrived. Share share

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## s9534891b

it is edwin.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro huhengyi1986

Yes, it's me...sorry, no photos because I am quite tech dumb. However, as mentioned, you are most welcome to view (strictly no purchase) this Sunday at 3 pm. I also got other fishes (although not as many as I ordered...haha)

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## s9534891b

I ordered both caca orange and tripple red .But only tripple red come .

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## s9534891b

By the way there might be a new shops coming up at seletar farmway 1 that sells apistogramma
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sun-P...935949&sk=info

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## joopsg

Never see any pictures or information saying going to sell apistogramma..
L

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## joopsg

> I ordered both caca orange and tripple red .But only tripple red come .


Better than no fish.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

from my experience, many new shops etc. will say they are going to have apistos but will not bring in after they find that there is not enough critical mass. For a small fish, apistos are actually relatively expensive. The German & Czech-bred (& even Taiwan) ones are expensive. From what I understand, the wild-caught ones are actually very cheap except the importer needs a critical mass (about 200-300 fish of the same species).

The only recent new apisto shop is Aquaristic Chambers.

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## huhengyi1986

Haha... The ones I ordered didn't come.... Stones told me this supplier always miss out orders de.. 

I see if I can make it this sun

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Huhengyi1986

Hope to see you this Sunday.

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## joopsg

> hi bro Joopsg
> 
> from my experience, many new shops etc. will say they are going to have apistos but will not bring in after they find that there is not enough critical mass. For a small fish, apistos are actually relatively expensive. The German & Czech-bred (& even Taiwan) ones are expensive. From what I understand, the wild-caught ones are actually very cheap except the importer needs a critical mass (about 200-300 fish of the same species).
> 
> The only recent new apisto shop is Aquaristic Chambers.


Yes, Bro. Apistogramma are never cheap fish from the start. Newly setup shop are not willing to venture in. 

AC is the new hunting ground now where i decided to get pay the premium for the pair of Adoketa Super Red. WC apisto are always in demand but not willing to bring in 200 pcs per specie.

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## s9534891b

> Never see any pictures or information saying going to sell apistogramma..
> L
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
from this tank, what i know that it can fit apistogramma in .U just call 90070616.they tell me now to text the orders to him.I text already and he said 21st jan will come.

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## joopsg

> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
> from this tank, what i know that it can fit apistogramma in .U just call 90070616.they tell me now to text the orders to him.I text already and he said 21st jan will come.


Any price list or stock list?

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## s9534891b

> Any price list or stock list?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


They have gotten the supplier,but have not engaged them yet.I question them twice already, and they said yes it will come.

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## joopsg

My adoketas today redo their tank themselves.

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## mobile2007

So, have they decided to go for planted tank or simple low tech tank?  :Grin: 




> My adoketas today redo their tank themselves.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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## joopsg

They decided that aquasoil height not to their expectations. Dug 2 holes and make themselves cosy with the drftwood cave i created for them. My tank not planted as they are well known to uproot plants or substrate. Just tie some mini fissidens on the woods. 

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## joopsg

They are currently on dry food.

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## s9534891b

whanyway just to ask for apistogramma cacatuoides ,what type aquarium food should be fed to make them breed?

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## joopsg

Fastest will be live feed.

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## s9534891b

> Fastest will be live feed.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Like what?

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## joopsg

Live bloodworm, live brineshrimp. Never feed live tubifex.

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## mobile2007

For apisto wilhemi, i think you need extremely low pH in order for the eggs to hatch. Previously i got one pair of wilhemi, the female kept spawning but none got hatched. 

As for adoketa, how to sex the female ?

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## joopsg

Hi mobile2007, that one i also very puzzled but according to hong kong website. Female gill cover is black.

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## joopsg

I bought mine as a pair claimed by the supplier.. anybody here now to sex?

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## mobile2007

Well, might be right about this. I looked though several youtube videos, the female indeed has black gill cover, Also, the female seems to be smaller in size, the black color strip is more intense.





> Hi mobile2007, that one i also very puzzled but according to hong kong website. Female gill cover is black.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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## s9534891b

as for water change ,is it minimum 1 month change 2-3 times?cause i feed them dr bassler.

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## stormhawk

Best conditioning food will always be live food. You can feed them a mix of foods - Live adult brine shrimp, frozen blood worm, live Daphnia and good quality pellet food. Crushing the Hikari Carnivore Pellets might be a good idea too. Alternative is to culture grindal worms, which can be gut loaded with high protein fish food so they become more nutritious for the fish. 

If you see your Apistos digging, that is a good sign. Excavations of a pit usually mean they are going to spawn, because this is usually done for several reasons.

1) the pit is a larval deposit, so that the parents can drop off their newborn fry in them to guard easily.
2) the digging is close to a piece of wood or hideout, which the female has chosen to lay her eggs in.
3) the female is digging around to find food.

With bigger dwarves like adoketa, all you need is a bunch of Anubias or Java Fern tied to driftwood, to create a more planted environment, without the mess that occurs when these critters dig all over the places. I've seen videos of really "dirty" tanks in which the adoketas spawned in. This kind of habitat is just perfect for the fry to graze on microfauna when they hatch out.

@mobile2007, perhaps you can try a mix of 50/50 dechlorinated tap water with distilled water along with ketapang leaves. That might help to increase the fertility rate for your wilhelmi.

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## s9534891b

Aquahobby having closing down sale today if anyone wants to get something. please go down immediately.

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## mobile2007

@storm, thanks for yr advice, but i no longer having any wilhelmi pair right now.





> Best conditioning food will always be live food. You can feed them a mix of foods - Live adult brine shrimp, frozen blood worm, live Daphnia and good quality pellet food. Crushing the Hikari Carnivore Pellets might be a good idea too. Alternative is to culture grindal worms, which can be gut loaded with high protein fish food so they become more nutritious for the fish. 
> 
> If you see your Apistos digging, that is a good sign. Excavations of a pit usually mean they are going to spawn, because this is usually done for several reasons.
> 
> 1) the pit is a larval deposit, so that the parents can drop off their newborn fry in them to guard easily.
> 2) the digging is close to a piece of wood or hideout, which the female has chosen to lay her eggs in.
> 3) the female is digging around to find food.
> 
> With bigger dwarves like adoketa, all you need is a bunch of Anubias or Java Fern tied to driftwood, to create a more planted environment, without the mess that occurs when these critters dig all over the places. I've seen videos of really "dirty" tanks in which the adoketas spawned in. This kind of habitat is just perfect for the fry to graze on microfauna when they hatch out.
> ...

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## mobile2007

Is the "nanacara adoketa" listed in stones pre-order list referring to ivanacara adoketa? Anyone got this from stones before?

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## joopsg

Yup. Nanacara is the former name. I believe some forummer got them through stones.

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## mobile2007

Most likely the price is for one fish rather than a pair. Also, should be juvenile. Maybe after CNY check that out with stones. 

If anyone ever ordered adoketa from stones, please give a brief info on the quality of the stock. thanks.






> Yup. Nanacara is the former name. I believe some forummer got them through stones.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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## venom

went c328 just now.. saw 2 CACA male without female.

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## illumnae

> I bought mine as a pair claimed by the supplier.. anybody here now to sex?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Female will have shorter and thicker body compared to male. As adults, difference in finnage is also very obvious. When they are in aggressive or breeding mood, the female mask is much blacker than the male. Males tend to have redder coloration in the dorsal and anal fins, but I've seen some females with this as well

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## joopsg

illumnae: your adoketas spawn already?

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## joopsg

illumnae: i don't want to frighten you but i was really shocked to see it too. Sending off my remaining oto before anything happen. Again.

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## joopsg

Hey brothers, new shipment arrived at Aquarist Chamber.

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## mobile2007

what are the new stock coming in?




> Hey brothers, new shipment arrived at Aquarist Chamber.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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## joopsg

Trifisciata, Bit tefe, bit mamuri, uaupesi, welhemi, eliz super red

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## s9534891b

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
Based on this 2 links I can more or less confirm that this shop is ready to bring in apistos.

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## illumnae

> illumnae: your adoketas spawn already?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Still waiting for them to pair up leh. The male flirting with both females but refuses to choose one. Silly playboy

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## joopsg

He want to spawn together..

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## mordrake

Adoketa can keep with discus in comm tank?

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## joopsg

How big is the tank? Should be able because adoketa stay around bottom of the tank and Discus mid water. But hell may break loose if any party decide to spawn.

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## mordrake

422. If any of my discus or adoketa spawn, will really be a Huat year!
Have heckels in the tank  :Very Happy:

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## joopsg

But please kindly take note of my thread my late male adoketa which i lost trying to eat an oto.

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## EdwinTay

Re : Adoketa

I am no expert but, I either read in Romer or some brothers told me that for the mature male Adoketa, the ventrals will be very long, extending beyond the fin below the stomach (don't know what that is called). Female is also rounder but sometimes very hard to differentiate.

P.S. please spare a thought for bro Joopsg - he is still mourning the loss of a good friend (due to overeating).

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## joopsg

Gluttony is the word to use.

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## joopsg

Correct me if i am wrong. I noticed female belly will be whitish after feed whereas the male will not change.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Sorry, I can't help you there. I don't stare at my fish; I stare at my wife. Sometimes my wife stares back...actually, I mean she glares back.

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## joopsg

Haha.. killer eyes...

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## venom

> Trifisciata, Bit tefe, bit mamuri, uaupesi, welhemi, eliz super red
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk



hi bro joopsg.
how the quality of the bitaeniata tefe?

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## joopsg

Look out for the photos. Did not take a good look at the bit. Still young fish

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## joopsg

Mamuri is good. However, i am not a bit fan. Kindly go there to see for yourself.

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## venom

i see.
i did not have time to drop by this few days.
might be sold off when i go

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## joopsg

Got a few pairs not to worry.

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## venom

> Got a few pairs not to worry.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


i want the best pair.

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## stormhawk

http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/in...eta-baby.8174/

From this thread here on apistogramma.com, we can tell that a mature male adoketa will have an extremely long extensions to the dorsal, anal and pelvic fins. The female will have shorter fins. There is some excellent info on that thread, which will be useful for all you adoketa fans.  :Smile:

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

You always want the best pair of everything.

Warning for you - I will probably make a trip to AC tomorrow afternoon. So you better go before I do...

Luckily for you, I am not really interested in Bitaeniatas. However, if they are nice, who knows?

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## joopsg

Haha. Evil Edwin..... After he go there you all can take a look at his place.

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## mordrake

Wah like that must faster go and check out the new stock. What time close?  :Very Happy:

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## EdwinTay

Rats...more competition.

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## joopsg

You are lucky i can have only 1 tank.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Yes, bro Venom is lucky..I have 30 tanks - but they are fully occupied. And I cannot get more tanks otherwise my wife will glare at me even more....

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## joopsg

But i believe your pond still have space.

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## venom

of cause. who do not want the best pair for themselves

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## joopsg

Prized fish. My adoketas managed to arouse my wife interest in fish keeping.. haha..

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## venom

> Prized fish. My adoketas managed to arouse my wife interest in fish keeping.. haha..
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


time to expand your collection

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## joopsg

Haha

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## mordrake

> Haha
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Don't wait la. The 1 adoketa pair left in the shop very big and ripe....

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## joopsg

Seeking sponsorship..

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## venom

> Seeking sponsorship..
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Your CO of your house

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## joopsg

She already give face to let me have 1 tank. Dun push luck.

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## illumnae

Adoketa male vs female below. Look at obvious differences in body shape (male longer and slimmer), finnage length (male longer) and colouration (male redder + female mask obviously different). Hope this helps when you're trying to sex them  :Smile: 

Male:



Female:

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## mobile2007

This pair is really very obvious, they might be in breeding mood ? Just look at the color of the stripes on their bodies, u will noticed the vast difference.





> Adoketa male vs female below. Look at obvious differences in body shape (male longer and slimmer), finnage length (male longer) and colouration (male redder + female mask obviously different). Hope this helps when you're trying to sex them 
> 
> Male:
> 
> 
> 
> Female:

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## joopsg

This is breeding dress. Mine have not reach this stage yet.

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## joopsg

illumnae: you kept them in black water tank?

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## zonkkie

Very nice specimens Bro Illumnae. Can really see why they are called zebra acara.

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## joopsg

Hand up those who went to AC today... Post your loots..

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## illumnae

Thanks guys, got them from HK last month. I keep them in blackwater yup, but I don't measure pH anymore. Most pH meters are not very accurate in low TDS water. The fish are in breeding dress but as mentioned I don't see any courtship or clear bonding behavior. The male chases this dominant female less and both chase the subdominant female but that's about it. No idea really, my first time keeping these lovely dwarfs.

Tonight's clearer pics (sorry about the dirty glass):

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## joopsg

Me too. First time keeping but not as luck wasn't on my side as I lost one big one. Gotten a replacement but now pondering if the smaller and dull color one is a female.


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## illumnae

Post some pictures?  :Smile:

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## EdwinTay

hi bro illumnae

Yr female caudal rotted off or what - it's very short

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## joopsg

uploadfromtaptalk1390524417850.jpg

You guys confirm say it is a male...

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## joopsg

EdwinTay: Must look sexy to seduce the male 

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Don't want to scare you but, from the angle of the photo, body very round & ventral very short.

How is it's reaction to the female?

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## joopsg

The male will done the stripes and flare at it. It will sometime stay there or run away.

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## joopsg

The male ventral reach the anal fin already.

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## venom

went to AC shop yesterday to take a short look before my appointment.
just minutes after my arrival, the elizabethae super red was sold to a guy.

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## joopsg

Haha... too many eyeing liao... 

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## venom

i think so..
i saw their Ivanacara Adoketa 'Super Red'
too big to my liking

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## joopsg

I. Adoketa just different from Apistogramma.

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## illumnae

> hi bro illumnae
> 
> Yr female caudal rotted off or what - it's very short


Perspective. I took the pic just after it turned, tail still curved so looks short lor




> Attachment 38970
> 
> You guys confirm say it is a male...
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Except for the red red colour, it looks female to me based on finnage and body shape. The red colour could be due to selective breeding? Yours are cb right?

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## joopsg

Yup. Mine is selective bred one. Male super red.

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## joopsg

Okay, thanks illumnae. You really make my day man. By the way i now working near fishy biz..

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## EdwinTay

> went to AC shop yesterday to take a short look before my appointment.
> just minutes after my arrival, the elizabethae super red was sold to a guy.


It was not me....sigh!!!!!

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## joopsg

EdwinTay: thought your tanks fully occupied? You like to let go any?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg 

You mean my adoketa (which I got by accident?) - no way, I want to see them have sex first.

Man, you are beginning to sound like bro Venom...everytime want my fish.

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## EdwinTay

hi all bros

But seriously, I wish someone can bring in the more exotic ones like Tucurui, Guttata etc.

I miss bro Scope.

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## illumnae

> Okay, thanks illumnae. You really make my day man. By the way i now working near fishy biz..
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Wow so lucky! Wish I could drop by there more often but I live and work quite far away from there. Roger's a really nice guy.




> hi all bros
> 
> But seriously, I wish someone can bring in the more exotic ones like Tucurui, Guttata etc.
> 
> I miss bro Scope.


Since you're such a big player, why not source for them and bring them in yourself, or make arrangements with an LFS to bring in for you once you've sourced them? That's how I managed to get my discus from H&K in after many years of hoping for them.

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## joopsg

> hi bro Joopsg 
> 
> You mean my adoketa (which I got by accident?) - no way, I want to see them have sex first.
> 
> Man, you are beginning to sound like bro Venom...everytime want my fish.


Since i know you have a pair i will wait. Please give me priority to purchase if letting go.

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## joopsg

> Perspective. I took the pic just after it turned, tail still curved so looks short lor
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the red red colour, it looks female to me based on finnage and body shape. The red colour could be due to selective breeding? Yours are cb right?


However I think she is skinny. Must pump her more...


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## EdwinTay

hi bro Illumnae

Since you're such a big player, why not source for them and bring them in yourself, or make arrangements with an LFS to bring in for you once you've sourced them? That's how I managed to get my discus from H&K in after many years of hoping for them.[/QUOTE]

No, I am not a big player. I am just crazy for apistos. I am trying to figure out a way to get them in. Many years ago, I did go Hong Kong (on business trip) & brought in some. I have talked to a LFS who can get wild ones in. However, as I mentioned before, they need to buy in bulk (200-300 pieces at one go). I don't think it is a good idea to flood the market & crash the price. The other irony is that it may create an unsustainable demand for apistos (I have been told that some wild ones are already extinct). I figured that if LFS can bring in 10-20 pairs of each species, this would be ideal.

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## EdwinTay

[QUOTE=joopsg;759634]However I think she is skinny. Must pump her more...

hi bro Joopsg - for a moment, I thought you were talking about yr wife!!!

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## joopsg

Haha.. she is now pregnant ard 6 mths so no need to say...

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## illumnae

LFS bring in 10-20 pairs means somewhere out there 200-300 pieces were brought in, be it Germany, HK, Taiwan or Singapore. The remaining 100-200 PCs are probably leftover males or juveniles that will end up being culled. Apistos aren't caught neatly in pairs, shipments are usually male heavy, or many unsexable juveniles. Several LFS have tried before bringing large wild shipments. Far from crashing the price. From a shipment of 100+ fish you get only 4 females and can only sell 4 pairs how? End up make a loss or have to sell super expensive. Reality of fish like apistos that can only be sold in pairs or trios is that you need to ship in the bulk to get enough saleable pairs. You will hardly make a dent in the market bringing in just 200-300 pcs let alone crash it. Its just a matter of which party takes the risk of bearing the leftover stock in the end. This is why the apisto hobby has never been huge here and has been on the decline over the past 8 years since I started this hobby.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Illumnae

You are correct. That's why I am trying to find a way to solve this. Otherwise it is almost impossible to bring wilds. The last shop to bring in, NKS, lost money. Last time, only Cichlid Forever brought in.

Would appreciate it if fellow brothers think of a way to resolve this issue. Otherwise cannot bring in.

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## illumnae

In relation to extinction of fish, the Brazilian government is doing a great job on its own destroying the Amazon and driving thousands of species of fish to extinction. In reality, fishing for export in Brazil doesn't pose the same kind of extinction threat like certain fish in Asia (white cloud mountain minnow, redline torpedo barb, galaxy rasbora etc). This is especially so for the Brazilian equivalent of our "longkang fish" like apistos - a single small pool can hold thousands of apistos. Look at cardinal tetras too. Hundreds of thousands are shipped out yearly, and I can guarantee you they are nowhere near extinct.

This is why bans like the ones on the export of L46 zebra plecos are laughable. Do you think shipping out several thousand a year can compare to the destruction of their natural habitat by the building of just one dam? We should be getting as many as possible into the hands of hobbyists to breed them so they don't go extinct! This goes for most Brazilian fish in future as the government plans to build more dams. We should get the fish out of Brazil and into the hands of breeders.

This is why I dislike manmade fish variants. We should have our hands full trying to preserve natural types, not create artificial unnatural types while the "real deal" goes extinct. Look at the white cloud mountain minnow. For many years before the new population was found, all you could get at LFS were the gold types or rarely the long fin types. And this was a fish thought to be already extinct in the wild! It was really quite sad IMO.

Just my opinion  :Smile:

----------


## illumnae

> hi bro Illumnae
> 
> You are correct. That's why I am trying to find a way to solve this. Otherwise it is almost impossible to bring wilds. The last shop to bring in, NKS, lost money. Last time, only Cichlid Forever brought in.
> 
> Would appreciate it if fellow brothers think of a way to resolve this issue. Otherwise cannot bring in.


The only shop still doing it is jzx. To resolve this issue, there's only one way - make it worth their while. Prices high still got to buy, don't express interest Liao then they bring in then say "why this batch not colorful? I wait till next batch then buy" etc. This is what happens now, and this is why LFS cannot make money bringing in apistos. This is how Singaporeans are, in a nutshell. We are a pampered nation. Until this attitude changes in relation to apistos, we are stuck. Margins for such small fish not worthwhile for LFS to invest. Look at the USA apisto hobby. They grab what they can get. Most of the time, the "spectacular" fish they have we snub because "quality not there" and yet these fish the american hobbyists treat as gems. That's why the hobby is more sustainable there than here.

I admit, I am also like what I described above, sadly...

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Illumnae

I did posted the "bad habits" before. In my opinion, if the wild fishes are priced at $20-30 each & if we can go & choose (just like last time at Cichlid Forever), hopefully, we can get 15-20 people buying per shipment, this should cover the LFS costs. Admittingly, the wild ones will only interest hardcore hobbists. Actually, I do not mind "underwriting" the excess provided I get them at cost or cost+10%.

We have to be fair to the LFS.

BTW, I actually agree with you about captive breeding to preserve the species.

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## huhengyi1986

Another reason is hobbylist wants to buy a pair instead of 1 gender, LFS ends up with males/ sneaker males which became males and got stuck with the stocks

LFS bring in small ones, less buyers as
people will wanna buy just a pair, bring in pairs might end up with males

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## joopsg

Well, i will support single gender.

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## bai

Just went to Sun Pets & Aquarium to take a look for their pre cny opening.

Talk to the boss and he mention will be bring in apisto, also wild type.

He mention stock should be in by next week or after cny.

His shop is easily found just straight in from Seaview.

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## joopsg

Hey guys keep us inform what is coming in.

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## bai

The boss mention will updates on their facebook page.

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## EdwinTay

hi guys

Great to hear from all of you about the possible availability of apistos in the future. I am not really hopeful about the bringing in of wild ones (the last time was NKS) - however, there is always the possibility...

BTW, is Seaview, Aquaone etc. within walking distance of the nearest public transport? I do not have my own transport. Going in is not much of a problem but, carrying out bags of fishes .....that's anther issue altogether

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## joopsg

EdwinTay: you can always make or arrange a apistogramma hunting trip. Then maybe we can carpool.

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## illumnae

Last wilds were not NKS, was JZX.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg - that's a good idea. So who wants to go & when? Of course the proper protocol is that the guy who drives get first pick; followed by......ME


bro Illumnae - you mean the Glaser, Melgar etc.? Actually, I am not really sure if they were wild. But they are nice.

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## joopsg

Well seriously depend what species come in.

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## joopsg

I am currently waiting my Adoketas to pair off. 

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## EdwinTay

> I am currently waiting my Adoketas to pair off. 
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


Well...mine have paired off. Except that they are acting like an old married couple - tolerate each other. Not much in terms of sex.....

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## joopsg

As for mine, female showing wriggling body to male but male still chasing her ard the tank. Now left 1 pencilfish. Very jialat...

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## joopsg

EdwinTay: your female change coloration? How long they took before they pair off?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Took about 3 mths to pair off.

Yr got hope - like courtship days. Boy chasing, girl giving come-on signals but playing hard to get.

Mine - like the male one side of tank (watching TV) while the wife busy with housework.

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## joopsg

Okok... the female just kept running. But feeding time they ok..eat together but later male just start to chase her..

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## mordrake

My female stays in her spot under some wood whilst the male wonders around. Visits her occasionally but sleeps somewhere else. 
Btw, if placed in a comm tank of discus, b wavrini and a handful of cories, will the adoketas just shy away and stay hidden most of the time?

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## joopsg

They are quite lazy actually.. male will hide in his fortess below the tank main driftwood. Then female free to roam..

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## EdwinTay

bro Joopsg - like I said - male sit around & watch TV while female busy in the house.

bro Mondrake - take out the cories ...unless you want br Joopsg to perform surgery on yr fish

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## mordrake

Hmm. Ok thanks. 
Now need to check whether it's the female or male that's roaming around. 
The cories are big and fat so should be safe. But I should see my cardinals get lesser. 
Had 100 but the discus had a good time and left 12 survivors which they don't bother.

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## joopsg

EdwinTay: hey give me a break lah... i very pitiful one.. adoketas have not paired off, incidents kept brought up.. heart pain leh..

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## illumnae

Mine finally starting to pair off. Instead of 3 fish in 3 separate territories, the male and alpha female (the one you guys say is in breeding colouration) spend about 80% of the time together and both chase the 2nd female away. This took about 1 month, during which I was also fighting off a very resilient strain of ich (killed all my tucano tetras and 3/4 of my Nannostomus marilynae). Soon I will need to take out the 2nd female before they kill her I think. From what I've read and experienced, it's easier to pair adoketa off if you have a group, or at least a trio. Let the male have a choice so he can pick the female he likes. Otherwise, you may end up with just 1 adoketa left. 

However, I've heard it's easier to pair off and spawn cb adoketa (beyond F1, such that they lose their wild instincts) compared to wc ones, so your mileage may vary!

Have any of you found a definitive way to tell wc adoketa from cb ones yet? I've heard a method that's common in Hong Kong, shared to me by several independent dwarf cichlid shop owners in HK - thought to hear from everyone else before sharing what I heard.


edit: based on my experience, not worth going for apisto hunting trips in SG, especially if the target is wc apistos. The availability and variety locally is really quite abysmal. Organize a year end trip to HK maybe and I can bring you guys to the dwarf cichlid shops I frequent. I make it a point to drop by at least once every 1-1.5 years and by now, some of the shop owners recognize me already hahaha


edit2: Edwin, JZX has been constantly bringing in both wc and cb apistos. Can't remember offhand which species are wild vs cb, but I know one regular wc import they bring in is Inka. They have also brought in eremnopyge, norberti, bitaeniata (several localities) and elizabethae (both wc and cb) etc. in recent times.

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## joopsg

illumnae: loan me your extra female.

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## joopsg

I will monitor them for a month anyway this is only their second week together. But female at times run away, sometime will stay put and wriggle at the male. Another thing is that my male is big. 

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## joopsg

Captive Bred one will take pellets?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Illumnae - great to hear fm another seasoned player. Yes, I do go to JZX. I suppose the more common ones such as agassizzi & bitaeniata are CB while others such oregon are wc. With rgds to HK trip, actually I am more keen on Taiwan - unless you want to go to the Amazon...

bro Joopsg - what are you trying to do? Start an Adoketa orgy???? But seriously, I am also trying to find a way to induce them to breed. Slightly lowering temperature & changing water & feeding live/ frozen food has a little effect but still not enough. I am toying with the idea of putting a mirror to let the male flare (a.k.a. bettas).

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## illumnae

> Captive Bred one will take pellets?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


My wc ones take pellets too leh - this one just a matter of training.






> hi bro Illumnae - great to hear fm another seasoned player. Yes, I do go to JZX. I suppose the more common ones such as agassizzi & bitaeniata are CB while others such oregon are wc. With rgds to HK trip, actually I am more keen on Taiwan - unless you want to go to the Amazon...
> 
> bro Joopsg - what are you trying to do? Start an Adoketa orgy???? But seriously, I am also trying to find a way to induce them to breed. Slightly lowering temperature & changing water & feeding live/ frozen food has a little effect but still not enough. I am toying with the idea of putting a mirror to let the male flare (a.k.a. bettas).


There were wc bitaeniata and agassizi brought in by JZX too.

I prefer HK to Taiwan, as I didn't really see that many hobbyist-focused apisto shops in Taiwan when I was there. Most were wholesalers interested in bulk sales. The HK suppliers I know bring in from SA, Japan and Taiwan already in pairs most of the time and are catered more to hobbyists. Rarely you have something in Taiwan that can't be found in HK at the same time.

ultimately, I adoketa aren't as easy to induce to spawn as apistogramma. All we can do is to use the usual tricks (e.g. large wc during rainy days, live feed etc.), but it's really up to them whether or not they are in the mood to breed or not. However, it does seem from recent reports that the cb ones that have been coming in lately are pretty easy to induce to spawn!

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## joopsg

> ultimately, I adoketa aren't as easy to induce to spawn as apistogramma. All we can do is to use the usual tricks (e.g. large wc during rainy days, live feed etc.), but it's really up to them whether or not they are in the mood to breed or not. However, it does seem from recent reports that the cb ones that have been coming in lately are pretty easy to induce to spawn!


I cannot do large amount of Water Change as i am not using any water conditioner. Still do not know which brand to use.


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## illumnae

Seachem Safe/Prime. Most value for money and tried & tested by many. I used to use it before I switched to using carbon prefilters.

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## joopsg

> bro Joopsg - what are you trying to do? Start an Adoketa orgy???? But seriously, I am also trying to find a way to induce them to breed. Slightly lowering temperature & changing water & feeding live/ frozen food has a little effect but still not enough. I am toying with the idea of putting a mirror to let the male flare (a.k.a. bettas).


Organizing this meeting may have different effect. Just trying my luck.

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## joopsg

Just to update, my pair of adoketas frequency of flaring and wriggling bodies movement is increasing as days goes by. However the male is still pushing female to the limit, chasing her around the tank. Female now has 2 spots to hang around permitted by the male. One is over a clay pot while the other is just below a driftwood. They are scaping the tank on a regular basis.

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## illumnae

Looks more promising than my pair, who simply just hang out together sometimes =\

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## joopsg

> Looks more promising than my pair, who simply just hang out together sometimes =\


But my pair are not hanging out together and not changing the coloration like yours.

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## raymond

Apisto Hongsloi Type 2 Male and fry. Currently fry is free swimming.

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## s9534891b

> I cannot do large amount of Water Change as i am not using any water conditioner. Still do not know which brand to use.
> 
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


Use the AZOO double black water conditioner.can be found in any aquarium shops.

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## mobile2007

You are putting your precious adoketa at risk as u hesitated on which water conditioner to use. All water conditioners are serving the same function, nothing else.





> I cannot do large amount of Water Change as i am not using any water conditioner. Still do not know which brand to use.
> 
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

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## joopsg

> You are putting your precious adoketa at risk as u hesitated on which water conditioner to use. All water conditioners are serving the same function, nothing else.


Hi mobile2007, i understand what is going to happen. Will try to get a bottle of aqua conditioner today. Because my water change regime is ard 10- 15% of the water.

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## joopsg

Hey brothers, i just gotten a bottle of seachem prime from Fishy Biz. 

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## EdwinTay

hi bros

Before I forget, Have a Happy & Prosperous (in terms of spawning) Lunar New Year.

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## joopsg

恭喜發財！马上生蛋！马上有钱！

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## joopsg

Brothers, can i check with you regarding the lighting of your adoketas tank? I using a clip on light with 6 LEDs. Should be enough right? I notice Adoketas do not like strong lighting.

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## illumnae

My adoketas prefer dim lighting. I'm using Maxspect Razor above the tank, but running the lights at 25% Channel A, 10% Channel B

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## joopsg

OK. Roger that.. 

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## huhengyi1986

> Apisto Hongsloi Type 2 Male and fry. Currently fry is free swimming.


Congrats! What u gonna do with the fries?

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## raymond

No plans yet. Will grow it up first, if not will just sell off the batches.

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## mobile2007

Is this hongsloi from JZX german batch or something else?





> No plans yet. Will grow it up first, if not will just sell off the batches.

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## raymond

Yap it's from JZX.

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## benjamin216

Apisto bitaeniata by benjamingoh93, on Flickr

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## joopsg

What a good lunar new year. Came back home and saw my female adoketa change its coloration.uploadfromtaptalk1391178519679.jpg

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## s9534891b

Anyway, this few days saw my caca female being whacked by the male caca like until very jialat lidat.Not so sure what is the best solution now cause the eggs already laid by the female.

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## joopsg

Remove the male if possible as she may be weak to fend herself. Once she stressed, the eggs will be gone. But i hope your female laid eggs on a location only accessible by her. Then can consider leaving the male inside.

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## nicktc

Mamuri pair

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## venom

just sharing my joy with everyone here..
Happy Chinese new year by the way..

my elizabethae red belly(JZX) fries..

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

Congrats. Damn... mine still like lembeh. I think they have a distinct lack of sex drive.

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## joopsg

Maybe bro venom add some special thing into the water.

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## joopsg

My adoketas for the past 2 days fighting like siao...sianz...

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## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> Congrats. Damn... mine still like lembeh. I think they have a distinct lack of sex drive.





> Maybe bro venom add some special thing into the water.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk





> My adoketas for the past 2 days fighting like siao...sianz...
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


thanks.

bro joopsg - i did not add anything. just normal wc and feeding

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## s9534891b

> just sharing my joy with everyone here..
> Happy Chinese new year by the way..
> 
> my elizabethae red belly(JZX) fries..


I did not have much joy as u.cause my caca female ate up most of her eggs.and also abandon her clutch.

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## joopsg

First timer mama sometime will do this. Just give them a few more time.

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## raymond

Yap first time mum most of the time will eat the first batch of eggs, just maintain good feeding regime and water change, in 2 weeks time they will lay the second batch. 

I experience the same with my Hongsloi pair, now second batch of fries, the mum is taking such good care for the 2 weeks old fries that at night she is even able to collect all fries back to the ceramic pot before bringing them out for their meals in the day time. One of the most caring female i have got so fair.

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## mordrake

That's right. My young wilhelmi female ate her 1st two spawns. Now guarding wrigglers from her 3rd spawn. All in less than 3 weeks in the tank! Hope this batch will be ok.

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## EdwinTay

I prefer to leave the fries with the parents & take my chances. So far, experienced complete wipeout of Hoingnei, Hongsloi, Wilhelmi & L. Dorsigera but, second time around, much much better. From my experience, if you interfere too early, the fries will be too weak to survive.

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## venom

look like i need to cross finger for my elizabethae fries as well as my hongsloi fries...

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## venom

> I prefer to leave the fries with the parents & take my chances. So far, experienced complete wipeout of Hoingnei, Hongsloi, Wilhelmi & L. Dorsigera but, second time around, much much better. From my experience, if you interfere too early, the fries will be too weak to survive.


will it be good to do water change when the fries are free swimming?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom. from my humble experience, it is best to have minimal disturbance. Despite what some books say, fromn my experience, apistos can tolerate a long time (2 mths) without water change.

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## venom

> hi bro Venom. from my humble experience, it is best to have minimal disturbance. Despite what some books say, fromn my experience, apistos can tolerate a long time (2 mths) without water change.


ok.
ever since my apisto had laid eggs.. i yet to do water change..
should be around 1-2weeks.

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## EdwinTay

bro Venom

From what I can see, yr tank has plants. Usually, if a tank replicates nature (by accident or design) & if you minimize disturbance, bioload (including overfeeding), the fish should be just fine.

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## venom

> bro Venom
> 
> From what I can see, yr tank has plants. Usually, if a tank replicates nature (by accident or design) & if you minimize disturbance, bioload (including overfeeding), the fish should be just fine.



i see. i yet to feed the fries with food.. especially my hongsloi fries..
how i know when to feed?

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## EdwinTay

yr Hongsloi already 2 weeks - feed them.....

Once their egg sacs disappear, you should feed them. If you cannot tell, just watch how the fries swim. Once they swim like a normal fish, that means that the egg sacs are gone.

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## venom

> yr Hongsloi already 2 weeks - feed them.....
> 
> Once their egg sacs disappear, you should feed them. If you cannot tell, just watch how the fries swim. Once they swim like a normal fish, that means that the egg sacs are gone.



yes bro.
my hongsloi fries start to swim up and down.
as i see they are still quite small.
i am thinking is my tank have enough mirco food for the fries?

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## raymond

Bro venom, you could just crush the sinking pellets to fine powder, let it sink. If the mother is there, it will actually bring the free swimming fries to feed at the spot. You could notice if the fries have eaten or not based on the colour of their tummy, especially so if the food is orangy/ reddish in colour. After feeding, their tummy will be a bit orangy/ reddish.

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## raymond

Water change I do it once every 3 days ~1.5L per change for a 1ft cube tank. As mentioned, try not to remove the mother. Usually will only removed when the fries and swimming all over the tank.

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## venom

> Bro venom, you could just crush the sinking pellets to fine powder, let it sink. If the mother is there, it will actually bring the free swimming fries to feed at the spot. You could notice if the fries have eaten or not based on the colour of their tummy, especially so if the food is orangy/ reddish in colour. After feeding, their tummy will be a bit orangy/ reddish.





> Water change I do it once every 3 days ~1.5L per change for a 1ft cube tank. As mentioned, try not to remove the mother. Usually will only removed when the fries and swimming all over the tank.


thanks for the advice bro.
currently i fed my female with pellets and do saw some crushed food came out from the gills.. maybe the fries will benefit from there?
i had remove the hongsloi male due to too afraid of the female after laying eggs.. now the tank only have female and fries..

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## raymond

Same here.

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## venom

> Same here.


did u buy boon or dalphia to feed them?
where can i find?

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## raymond

Nope. Just feed the crushed pellet.

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## venom

> Nope. Just feed the crushed pellet.


i see..
i guess my hongsloi fries had been free swim for at least a week now

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## bai

> thanks.
> 
> bro joopsg - i did not add anything. just normal wc and feeding


But you do the "Act" in front of them to induce them to breed right. :Grin:  :Razz:

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## joopsg

> But you do the "Act" in front of them to induce them to breed right.


That is seduce not induce.

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## s9534891b

is it ok to put 1 male caca together with 2 female caca in a 10 gallon tank?

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## joopsg

The sub dominant female will be killed once they pair off.

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## s9534891b

so how to prevent this?

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## joopsg

Just keep 1 pair.

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## illumnae

bigger tank with lots of hiding places may help if the species is a harem species (i.e. 1 male can mate with multiple females). In such a case, each female may be able to establish territory on 1 side of the tank. Not sure if A. cacatuoides is a harem species, and i doubt 10 gallons is large enough even with lots of hiding places.

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## s9534891b

just to off topic,today jzx is open and i went there no new apistogramma arrivals.

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## joopsg

JZX will inform whenever there is new apistogramma. Maybe you can check out their forum posting.

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## illumnae

Next week  :Smile:

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## s9534891b

on the other hand, sun pets and aquarium just arrived apistogramma agassizi from indonesia.

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## joopsg

Got any other species?

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## s9534891b

i don't know but they said more to come if u interested pls call or sms me jun zer at 91219057 to make arrangement to go to sun pets this or next weekend. preferably Saturday.

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## mordrake

Wilhelmi fry. Free swimmers after 3rd spawn in 2weeks+.




Also help to see whether this hongsloi II is a sneaker male.

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## mordrake

Hongsloi II vid

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## joopsg

Look like sneaker male to me. Any hongsloi keeper to voice out?

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## mordrake

I thought so too. Sian. Now to find a female or put into comm tank to make way for my adoketa.

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## EdwinTay

bro Mordrake

Congrats on yr Wilhelmi fries.

Yr Hongsloi is a sub-dominant male. The bad thing is that it's not a female. The good thing is that the colour & form looks very good. If you put it in its own tank with female, I think you will be surprised how beautiful the fish is.

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## mordrake

Thanks! Know anywhere with hongsloi female?  :Smile:

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## joopsg

EdwinTay's place.

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## EdwinTay

hi bros Mordrake & Joopsg

EdwinTay's place is NOT a commercial fish shop.....haha

Regrettably, I do have 4 pairs of Hongsloi but I am trying to get F2s first because I want to make sure my "stock" has enough diversity to mitigate in-breeding. (Currently, 3 out of 4 pairs have recently spawned but I lost one spawn).

BTW, I may be opening house again on Feb 22 or 23 (depending on whether I can clean my tanks in time). As I mentioned, the purpose is NOT for sale, nor to boast but, to touch base with fellow apistos enthusiasts. Actually, I am thinking, since my house is close to Seaview & Sun Pet, perhaps we can meet in the morning at my place & after that proceed to Jln Kayu. Please reply so that I can gauge interest.

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## joopsg

Please kindly share with us. I need to get clearance first. 

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg - I can understand yr position (the wife treats me nice so have to respect her - and also because I don't want to be nagged everyday). If it makes it easier for you, yr family (limited to 4 persons) is most welcomed too.

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## joopsg

She is okay with me going to see fishes but as she is now into her 7th mth of pregnancy. I also need to see whether she can handle the elder one anot.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg 

So....yr wife is pregnant but yr adoketa is NOT......and you already have a previous spawn which I presume is free-swimming ....oops, I mean walking.

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## illumnae

Edwin, are your 4 pairs of Hongsloi all from different sources?

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## joopsg

Running liao...

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## joopsg

Adoketas this morning sluggish after last night feast on ghost shrimps, need to fast them for next 1 or 2 days. See can get brine shrimps today anot. If not will be tomorrow.

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## mordrake

Feed frozen brine, bloodworm and pellets la. So pamper them with live food.

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## joopsg

Haha. They eat anything lor. Pellets, live brine shrimps, pencilfish, ghost shrimp and otos. Right guys? The reason i am feed brine shrimp is wife forbids worm in the fridge or freezer.

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## joopsg

I am thinking do they eat meal worms?

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## mordrake

Buy by the box. Keep neatly in the styrofoam box should be ok right? Better than you keep going off to buy live food. 
Mealworm sure take but feed freshly molt ones better as the 'skin' may be hard to digest

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## joopsg

I buy and keep them for 2- 3 weeks in the fridge.

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## joopsg

But no live food. Just feed ocean nutrition onmi pellets. They are ok with it. Any more other pellets to recommend to feed to Adoketas?

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## illumnae

I feed NLS Thera+A and Ken's mini earthworm sticks. I'm a strong advocate for NLS being the best pellet available  :Smile:

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## joopsg

Ok.. will try that once they finish it. 

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Illumnae - My Hongsloi - 2 pairs fm JZX (spawned but lost one spawn), 1 pair from a bro, 1 pair mix (with fries)

bro Joopsg - I think you may be feeding yr Adoketas too much, seriously

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## joopsg

Illumnae: check with you where you buy the ken mini earthworm sticks.

EdwinTay: i realised that now.. 

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## Misery

Forgive my ignorance, Unable to find exact location of Sun Pets, however I'm guessing its located at Jalan Kayu since Bro Edwin say it's near his place? 

Anyone interested to take a look tomorrow? 

Seems like I'm not the only one hunting for a female hongsloi 2. 

*Hints* (Edwin Tay)

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## joopsg

Misery: you can join the queue to get the fries he is having now.

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## Misery

Yeah, guess I have to wait, my poor male has been alone for almost a year. Old, he needs to spawn before anything happens.

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## joopsg

If you want can place order with stones or JZX?


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## Misery

Will go down JZX to take a look today.

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## mordrake

Today only open 1-5 pm. Tomorrow closed.

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## s9534891b

Latest form sun pets and aquarium:30 pairs of apistos arrived.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sun-P...87905047935949

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## joopsg

Species Apistogramma Cacatuoides Orange Flash. Not Aggasizi as mentioned earlier.. 


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## mobile2007

All 30 pairs are cacatuiodes ? Any other type of apisto?




> Species Apistogramma Cacatuoides Orange Flash. Not Aggasizi as mentioned earlier.. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## joopsg

Saw their reply, Apistogramma Aggasizi Double Red, Apistogramma Cacatuoides "Cockatoo" and Apistpgramma Cacatuoides Orange Flash. Apistogramma Cacatuoides "Cockatoo" maybe double red variant? Any bro bought yesterday?

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## mordrake

They have caca, caca orange flash and aga double red.

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## mordrake

My adoketas  :Very Happy:

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## joopsg

Mordrake, your male adoketa looking nice 

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## EdwinTay

hi All

Anyone knows how to make Adoketas horny. Mine, like many other bros here, are like an old married couple. I prefer NOT to try the "get more Adoketas" method as they are quite expensive & I don't have tank space

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## joopsg

Edwin Tay, my male is like having too comfortable syndrome. Now lazing around, only the female very active. He will just swim around lazily. I am not sure what is wrong with him. Anybody experience this? Previously chasing the female, now totally no chasing. Just waiting the female to approach change coloration then swim away..

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Like I said - like old married couple.

Maybe tonight I go back home & read the Romer book to get some tips. Or, ask some marriage counsellor to put the pep back in the relationship.

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## joopsg

I just worried he is sick or what? He will just swim away from the female when female approach. It is also quite restless. Now no tankmates don't dare to put any.

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## venom

sad news... 
my hongsloi and elizabethae fries all cannot make it..
i tried to feed crushed dried food but yet see the fries unable to survive..
sigh..

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## joopsg

Bro venom, try keep some moss or in the tank. I believe they can survive on the things on the moss.

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## venom

> Bro venom, try keep some moss or in the tank. I believe they can survive on the things on the moss.
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


bro... i have moss in both my tank.
am curious why my fries unable to survive.

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## joopsg

Mother will also chew pellet and spit out for them.

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## venom

> Mother will also chew pellet and spit out for them.
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


that is what i thought too.
been observing the female doing that.. my elizabethae male does it as well.
but i cannot find any issue on why my fries are not surviving.

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## joopsg

Maybe first time? After few more time should be ok..

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## illumnae

Wah the Agassizi pictured above is "Double Red" or "Double Orange"??? Breed a few more generations become "Double Yellow" liao  :Surprised:  very poor quality control on the farm.

For fries surviving are you sure it's lack of food? Are they all emanciated with sunken bellies when they die? if not, look to other causes e.g. water quality etc. Very rare for fry to die of starvation if parents are looking after them + there is moss in the tank. Even debris on the substrate can serve as a breeding ground for microorganisms that can feed the fry.

For the adoketa, I've tried most known methods to induce spawning liao - still no results despite the pair being bonded. Sometimes it's just a wait and see game i guess, they're living organisms and much fuller of character than most other dwarves so I suppose they aren't the "breed on demand" type of fish unless you have linebred fish very far down the line such that they've lost much of their wild character.

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## mordrake

Only a couple of the male aga have reddish tails. The females are much better. Choose that male for the nicest tail shape.

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom

First you killed the trifasciata female, now the Hongsloi & Elizabethae fries.... 

Seriously, you saw my set-up right? - very simple (albeit dirty). Sometimes, try not to bother too much...get worried for nothing. There have been many occasions where I thought the fries died but all of a sudden, they re-appeared again. For instance, I have a batch of Mamore fries (the mother one eye blind but still can breed) which I have not seen for 4-5 days. However, I do expect to see them alive at some time in the near future.

Scientifically, I think there following are plausible causes for the deaths of yr fries;
1) They were sick (although the parents were OK) or,
2) somehow, the water parameters changed too drastically for their fragile bodies or,
3) yr tank too clean - no micro-organisms at all

bro Illumnae

Looks like we (you, bro Joopsg & I) are all in the same boat for our Adoketas. Let's have a side bet - whoever's Adoketa spawn successfully first give the other 2 a treat- being the proud father.

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## joopsg

Hey.. i already father. Should be granddad..

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## joopsg

Well... i think illumnae got higher chance...
Don't forget mordrake also get a pair.

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## mobile2007

Venom, in order to maximise the surivival rate of your fries, it's best to hatch baby brine shrimp. The feeding by the mother fish is inconsistent, some will do that some wont. Also, the fries will feed on bbs based on instinct. i.e. moving and wriggling 





> that is what i thought too.
> been observing the female doing that.. my elizabethae male does it as well.
> but i cannot find any issue on why my fries are not surviving.

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## mordrake

> Well... i think illumnae got higher chance...
> Don't forget mordrake also get a pair.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


My pair very young la. Underage  :Very Happy:

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## huhengyi1986

Share share someone breed adoketas in another forum in SG. Replied about the water parameters, maybe u guys can ask more 

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=521121

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## EdwinTay

hi bros

With rgds to Adoketa - Thanks, bro Huhengyi1986. And, so, is the spawning challenge on - Joopsg, Illumnae & Modrake?

With rgds to fries, actually I never hatched bbs. I used to keep bettas - believe me, the fries were even harder to keep alive because they will only attack moving food & their mouths are too small for many food (except infusoria). Apistos fries I find not much problem.

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## venom

i feed my female everyday.. can see that it keep chewing the food and alot of crushed food came out from its gills.
am very sad when see my fries dying

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## joopsg

I am cool with it.

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## EdwinTay

The Adoketa Challenge

bros Modrake & Illumnae how?

BTW, my pair are about 5-6 inches & I think around 8 months old.

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## joopsg

Mine should be around the same...

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## mordrake

5-6inches! My ado only 3-4.  :Sad: 
Still long way to go.

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## joopsg

You took the smaller pair 

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## illumnae

I'll pass haha, keeping and breeding fish is a hobby and should be relaxing. Competition too stressful liao. Plus my adoketa are wc so harder to spawn  :Wink:  2 people I know who got their pairs from JZX just before Christmas already had their pairs lay eggs. My understanding is that the other 2 pairs ended up being purchased as tankmates for an aggressive comm tank, so likelihood of spawning is really low. So for that JZX batch of cb adults, I'd say it's 2 out of 2 pairs successfully spawned within a month.

Based on experiences of friends who keep adoketa, it's not a challenge to get them to spawn, especially the cb ones. you can see bro doppelbanddwarf's cb group from stones... so young already pair up and lay eggs. He has had success with getting a previous bonded pair to lay eggs too several times. The problem is in getting a viable batch of eggs, as adoketa eggs seem to require alot of care and ideal water parameters in order to hatch.

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## venom

> i feed my female everyday.. can see that it keep chewing the food and alot of crushed food came out from its gills.
> am very sad when see my fries dying


anyone would advise me on what wrong with my tank that my fries unable to survive?
crushed powdered dried food given.. with moss type on driftwood..

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## s9534891b

Just to share one thing,from my personal point of view, i felt that many of the aquarium shop would provide apistogramma, cause recently, i do see a trend in people buying them.

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## EdwinTay

> anyone would advise me on what wrong with my tank that my fries unable to survive?
> crushed powdered dried food given.. with moss type on driftwood..


hi bro Venom

1) Do a 100% water change (either age water or put anti-chrorine & antichroromine). Clean out tank completely - including plants, filter etc. by soaking for 1-2 hours in salt water. I suspect that there are pathogens which attack the weak fries,
2) Once the "new" tank is set up, let it settle for 4-5 days before attempting to breed (to let infusoria etc. develop). Make sure tank is in a place with some sun & open air,
3) For the next batch of fries, try NOT to overfeed as uneaten food decays. In my case, I feed them every two days,
4) try not to be too concerned - the irony is that the more worried you are, the more likely you will lose the fries.

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## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> 1) Do a 100% water change (either age water or put anti-chrorine & antichroromine). Clean out tank completely - including plants, filter etc. by soaking for 1-2 hours in salt water. I suspect that there are pathogens which attack the weak fries,
> 2) Once the "new" tank is set up, let it settle for 4-5 days before attempting to breed (to let infusoria etc. develop). Make sure tank is in a place with some sun & open air,
> 3) For the next batch of fries, try NOT to overfeed as uneaten food decays. In my case, I feed them every two days,
> 4) try not to be too concerned - the irony is that the more worried you are, the more likely you will lose the fries.


ok. thanks for the advice bro.
currently my hongsloi female still taking care of the 3 remaining fries..
look fatter than earlier.. 
guess i gonna do a wc for my elizabethae tank.

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## illumnae

Venom, Don't forget bottled bb to ensure your tank gets cycled asap after the reset.

Guys, Apistogramma baenschi (wc) expected at JZX very soon! Those interested in this species get ready your running shoes to cheong down!

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## venom

> Venom, Don't forget bottled bb to ensure your tank gets cycled asap after the reset.
> 
> Guys, Apistogramma baenschi (wc) expected at JZX very soon! Those interested in this species get ready your running shoes to cheong down!


thanks bro.
any other species?

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## illumnae

Don't think so in this shipment. Supposed to have more, but they didn't make it through. Probably next shipment  :Smile:

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## venom

i see..
thanks..

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## EdwinTay

> Venom, Don't forget bottled bb to ensure your tank gets cycled asap after the reset.
> 
> Guys, Apistogramma baenschi (wc) expected at JZX very soon! Those interested in this species get ready your running shoes to cheong down!



hi bro Illumnae

Many thanks for sharing. Looks like the interest is back...lol. I think we have a critical mass now. The next step is to get some LFH to import wild caught ones (like what Cichlid Forever did many, many moons ago).

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## joopsg

Wah, all ready, i do what sia.. see you all buy?

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## EdwinTay

hi bro

I know this may be a sensitive issue, but it would be good if we can get an indication of the current & potential capacity of each one of us to gauge the demand (apistos usually 2-3 per small tank).

I myself have 29 small tanks & one 3ft x 3ft glass tanks at home (not an apistos room but an apistos balcony) & 3 small tanks & two 2 ft tanks in the office.

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## venom

> hi bro Venom
> 
> 1) Do a 100% water change (either age water or put anti-chrorine & antichroromine). Clean out tank completely - including plants, filter etc. by soaking for 1-2 hours in salt water. I suspect that there are pathogens which attack the weak fries,
> 2) Once the "new" tank is set up, let it settle for 4-5 days before attempting to breed (to let infusoria etc. develop). Make sure tank is in a place with some sun & open air,
> 3) For the next batch of fries, try NOT to overfeed as uneaten food decays. In my case, I feed them every two days,
> 4) try not to be too concerned - the irony is that the more worried you are, the more likely you will lose the fries.


bro.
do you mean the soil also have to soak in salt water?

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## pattermelon

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392099051.392651.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392099062.288299.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392099071.039273.jpg

Sharing some pics of my humble Agassizii tefe male  :Smile:  


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## pattermelon

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392099353.214381.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392099364.997095.jpg

Here are a couple more pictures along with the female 😁


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## EdwinTay

hi bro Venom - Yes - soak soil in salt. If there are harmful pathogens, they can hide anywhere.

hi bro pattermelon - I believe this is the first time you posted - welcome. What a nice welcome gift from you - very nice aga. tefe

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## huhengyi1986

> Venom, Don't forget bottled bb to ensure your tank gets cycled asap after the reset.
> 
> Guys, Apistogramma baenschi (wc) expected at JZX very soon! Those interested in this species get ready your running shoes to cheong down!



When when???  :Very Happy:

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## EdwinTay

> Venom, Don't forget bottled bb to ensure your tank gets cycled asap after the reset.
> 
> Guys, Apistogramma baenschi (wc) expected at JZX very soon! Those interested in this species get ready your running shoes to cheong down!


Ratz...I think I have to use tissue paper chope first.

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## joopsg

Tissue paper? Now is go down to shop pay deposit..

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## stormhawk

Anyone went to GC for the 45% off on book sales? I purchased a copy of the Mergus Cichlid Atlas Vol.1, which I was looking for quite some time. Could not find a copy of Vol.2, but the other Aqualogs are on sale too, along with other books, including the book on Apistogramma, Crenicara and some others by Mayland and Bork.

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## joopsg

EdwinTay got the last volume 2.

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## illumnae

Is the sale still on and the Mayland and Bork book still available? I was about to order that from Amazon

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## EdwinTay

> EdwinTay got the last volume 2.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


hi bro Stormhawk

bro Joopsg is right. Book 2 not really that exciting. A lot of technical details. Many of the recently-discovered species still not in. I think we have to wait for a couple of years for the updates. However, when I do the open house on Feb 22, you are most welcome to take a look at Book 2.

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## illumnae

Alot of typo errors and labelling errors in Vol 2 as well apparently. Most apisto gurus in the west recommend Vol 1 and Mayland & Bork and suggest omitting Vol 2

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## illumnae

Went over lunch and got Aqualog S.A. Cichlids 1-4 + Mayland & Bork  :Very Happy:

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## joopsg

Wow!

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## saleen

IMG-20140206-WA0004.jpgsharing my adoketa parents with fries

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## illumnae

Very well done saleen! Awesome breeder  :Smile:

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## saleen

> Very well done saleen! Awesome breeder


thanks bro yx hopefully they can grow up

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## stormhawk

Late reply but there is another copy of Mayland and Bork at GC. I didn't buy it since I wanted the Atlas instead. Picked up several other books as well.

Haha now I know where the last copy went, it's alright Edwin, I'll try and drop by on your open house. I will get a copy via Aquabid or other stores. The Vol.1 is truly fantastic though.

Congratulations Saleen on the adoketa spawn. My friend in Malaysia is having some decent luck too with adoketa. His spawned in a bare bottom tank too.

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## illumnae

There are 3 copies left on amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Baensch-Cichli...=cichlid+atlas

I believe it qualifies for free shipping if you top up $50 on other orders to hit $125. Maybe buy 2?

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## saleen

Congratulations Saleen on the adoketa spawn. My friend in Malaysia is having some decent luck too with adoketa. His spawned in a bare bottom tank too.[/QUOTE]

thanks stormhawk will do updates when the fries get bigger

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Saleen

Congratulations....Now my question is - did you use Viagra or Cialis? My stupid Adoketas still behaving like an old married couple...reminds me of my wife & I.

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## joopsg

Bro EdwinTay, must have the ambience mah..

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## stormhawk

Edwin, maybe a change in their aquarium setup might help. My friend's fish in Malaysia spawned during the recent cold weather. Perhaps can try to reduce the water temperature in their tank?

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## mobile2007

Sun pets got more apisto coming in.

the Apistogramma agassizii Tefe x 10 pairs
Apistogramma megaptera x 5 pairs
Apistogramma sp "Rio Mamore" x 10 pairs

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## saleen

> hi bro Saleen
> 
> Congratulations....Now my question is - did you use Viagra or Cialis? My stupid Adoketas still behaving like an old married couple...reminds me of my wife & I.


hi bro edwin i never seen them cleaning the tiles for eggs laying or seen them stimulate each other then they just breed

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## EdwinTay

> Edwin, maybe a change in their aquarium setup might help. My friend's fish in Malaysia spawned during the recent cold weather. Perhaps can try to reduce the water temperature in their tank?


hi bro stormhawk - I have 27 little ice-cream cups of ice cubes in my freezer now. The wife is making a lot of noise & she is colder than the ice cube towards me now. Or, as bro Joopsg would suggest - a lack of ambience.

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## venom

> hi bro stormhawk - I have 27 little ice-cream cups of ice cubes in my freezer now. The wife is making a lot of noise & she is colder than the ice cube towards me now. Or, as bro Joopsg would suggest - a lack of ambience.


it's time for you to stop your hobby.
elizabethae going to be mine.

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## joopsg

Haha....

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## joopsg

My captive bred adoketas from AC.uploadfromtaptalk1392334653891.jpguploadfromtaptalk1392334668847.jpg

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## EdwinTay

hi bro Joopsg

Very nice colours. Is the fish on the right the female? It looks a little compressed. Have to be careful with inbreeding as it may cause physical deformities.

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## joopsg

Not sure the view on the web. But the first picture is the male. Camera shy and just recovered from internal bacterial. Second picture is the female. Chilli Padi.

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## benjamin216

The second picture looks like a male.

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## joopsg

> The second picture looks like a male.


Is it? How to tell, bro.

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## joopsg

Anybody to shed a light how to sex Adoketas?

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## venom

Hi guys...

I am looking for bitaeniata tefe male and trifa male..
Any lobang?

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## nicktc

Sun Pet has a nice Trifa male in one of the smaller display tank.
Maybe you can ask them to sell it to you.

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## mobile2007

I still have one male trifa whih is quite nice. Pm me if interested.




> Hi guys...
> 
> I am looking for bitaeniata tefe male and trifa male..
> Any lobang?

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## EdwinTay

> Hi guys...
> 
> I am looking for bitaeniata tefe male and trifa male..
> Any lobang?


Ratz, bro Venom - now you killed the male Trifa.......

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## KEN LEE

> Sun Pet has a nice Trifa male in one of the smaller display tank.
> Maybe you can ask them to sell it to you.


Hahaha...yes its for sale. Hv another 5 pairs coming in today too. Cheers

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## joopsg

> Ratz, bro Venom - now you killed the male Trifa.......


He is the trifisciata nemesis.

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## venom

> Ratz, bro Venom - now you killed the male Trifa.......


nah.. i dun kill any fish of mine.. they just simply got attacked by fungus..

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## joopsg

Put some salt into tank?

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## venom

> Put some salt into tank?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk



yes... done all the precaution needed

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## Milk

Hi Venom;
Has it ever occur to your that the genetic of the fishes that you are breeding are already weak?
Highly breed apistogramma or any life forms not only have birth defects, but also affects birth rates and survival rates of the off-spring.




> anyone would advise me on what wrong with my tank that my fries unable to survive?
> crushed powdered dried food given.. with moss type on driftwood..

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## venom

> Hi Venom;
> Has it ever occur to your that the genetic of the fishes that you are breeding are already weak?
> Highly breed apistogramma or any life forms not only have birth defects, but also affects birth rates and survival rates of the off-spring.



hi bro.
i am not sure whether is the genetic weak or not. as it is my first pair of elizabethae

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## Milk

What will be prone to sickness and diseases??
1:A genetically strong species??
2:A genetically weak or deformed species?? 

Any other external factors are the species are stressed or there's a deficiency nutrients and minerals to withstand diseases and bacteria attacks/ invasion.

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## venom

> What will be prone to sickness and diseases??
> 1:A genetically strong species??
> 2:A genetically weak or deformed species?? 
> 
> Any other external factors are the species are stressed or there's a deficiency nutrients and minerals to withstand diseases and bacteria attacks/ invasion.


how do i tell whether the fish is genetically strong or weak? pardon me asking as i still newbie learning from you guys.

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## Milk

This is never easy......
I'm unable to clearly explain and see this yet..

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## illumnae

Bro Dimas, long time no see! All the experienced old pros coming back to the hobby, first henry and now you. I just heard yesterday that you were planning on jumpstarting the hobby in a big way  :Very Happy:

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## EdwinTay

> Hi Venom;
> Has it ever occur to your that the genetic of the fishes that you are breeding are already weak?
> Highly breed apistogramma or any life forms not only have birth defects, but also affects birth rates and survival rates of the off-spring.



Hi bro Milk

No, bro Venom is just a serial apistos killer.

Seriously, farm-bred fish are susceptible to in-breeding where the defective genes are concentrated. What's more, the likelihood of a sibling pairing is great if we buy from the same batch. That's why, occasionally, although I already have the species, I will try to buy others, especially if I can determine that they are from different sources.

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## joopsg

Well it is good that all old timers making a comeback to Apistogramma. 

EdwinTay: i believe we should encourage each other and support each other for the passion of this hobby. 

Venom: If you want intend to get a replacement Trifisciata do let us know maybe we can help you look at it before purchase. At times, fish may not be healthy before you purchase. Eventually died in your care.

Milk: Prepare to join the dark side again....

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## joopsg

> What will be prone to sickness and diseases??
> 1:A genetically strong species??
> 2:A genetically weak or deformed species?? 
> 
> Any other external factors are the species are stressed or there's a deficiency nutrients and minerals to withstand diseases and bacteria attacks/ invasion.


I was advised to give my Adoketas a balance diet. Previously kept my apistogramma with live feed diet, they spawn regularly. So now for Adoketas pelllets, FBW and live feed when possible.

If you look at the hybrid steel blue, it is such a hardy specie.

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## joopsg

Just a side note, i will take note of the laternal line on the fish if it is crooked i will not buy the fish.

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## venom

> Hi bro Milk
> 
> No, bro Venom is just a serial apistos killer.
> 
> Seriously, farm-bred fish are susceptible to in-breeding where the defective genes are concentrated. What's more, the likelihood of a sibling pairing is great if we buy from the same batch. That's why, occasionally, although I already have the species, I will try to buy others, especially if I can determine that they are from different sources.


bro. you talk like i am purposely wasting my money to kill apisto? i might as well buy delicacy for myself to eat better than throw money into small fishes like apisto. you think i feel happy when the fish dead?

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## joopsg

> bro. you talk like i am purposely wasting my money to kill apisto? i might as well buy delicacy for myself to eat better than throw money into small fishes like apisto. you think i feel happy when the fish dead?


Chill... ok... Guys.. it is a hobby to enjoy.. we are sharing the passion. Like i mentioned earlier, we should give encouragement and support..

Venom: i know the pain as i lost my first male Adoketa.

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## venom

> Chill... ok... Guys.. it is a hobby to enjoy.. we are sharing the passion. Like i mentioned earlier, we should give encouragement and support..
> 
> Venom: i know the pain as i lost my first male Adoketa.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


exactly bro. i am here to enjoy my hobby but discouragement from fellow hobbyist really demoralize.

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## Milk

Hi illumnae,
Have a bit of free tme on hand now and seriously..apistograma addiction are hard to get rid off.
How did you know ??
In actual fact, parts of the plans has being running for a while and I intend to kick it off once I seen some result. And I guess it's about time soon..

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## joopsg

No worries. I can share with you my experience with Adoketas when you decide to come to the dark side.

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## Milk

Hi edwintay;

I will says that venom is just in-experience.. and this is part and parcel of this hobby. I proudly admit that I did kill many farm breed species and wild caught species due to my in-experience.

In regards to farm-bred fishes.... there ARE AlWAYS genatically deformed due to in-breeding. Only reasponsible breeding can produce good species.
Another good examples are puppy mills.. looks at all those defective and sickness prone puppy that's in the market now..

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## Milk

Hi joopsg;

What dark side?? When I started off apistogramma again... I'm already in the darkest side....

Live feeds are good. Enrichment live food are best. Beside live food, there's other factor to consider as well. Additional minerals and nutrient to add into the water.

Hybrid steel blue are a cross between 2 specie. Therefore, their genatic are "NEW".. so they are less genatically deformed.. more tolerance to external factors..

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## EdwinTay

> Hi edwintay;
> 
> I will says that venom is just in-experience.. and this is part and parcel of this hobby. I proudly admit that I did kill many farm breed species and wild caught species due to my in-experience.
> 
> In regards to farm-bred fishes.... there ARE AlWAYS genatically deformed due to in-breeding. Only reasponsible breeding can produce good species.
> Another good examples are puppy mills.. looks at all those defective and sickness prone puppy that's in the market now..



hi bro Milk

I think I paid more to learn than most people - ask bro Scope. This time, I am a little more successful & am glad to share my experience.

With rgds to in-breeding, I think I read in Romer that it takes 13 generations for defects to appear. However, from what I know, as a general guide, 3 generations is all it takes. One of the biggest issues is that I suspect a lot of the locally-available fishes are from the same source - therefore there is little room for outcrossing. For instance, I suspect that; the Taiwan fish is from Germany & Czech & Taiwan exports to HK. Malaysian & Indonesian (recent) sources are probably the same.

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## Milk

Hi joopsg, 
Lateral lines are not the only signs of in-breeding... there are a few more different signs to looks at.

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## joopsg

Hi milk, noted with thanks.

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## venom

> hi bro Milk
> 
> I think I paid more to learn than most people - ask bro Scope. This time, I am a little more successful & am glad to share my experience.
> 
> With rgds to in-breeding, I think I read in Romer that it takes 13 generations for defects to appear. However, from what I know, as a general guide, 3 generations is all it takes. One of the biggest issues is that I suspect a lot of the locally-available fishes are from the same source - therefore there is little room for outcrossing. For instance, I suspect that; the Taiwan fish is from Germany & Czech & Taiwan exports to HK. Malaysian & Indonesian (recent) sources are probably the same.


bro.. i don't think that it is about paying more or less than most people.. As a senior(in term of age) and experienced hobbyist, shouldn't you guide the newbies like me along rather than saying i am a serial apisto killer? prevent the newbie following your footsteps and learning the hard way.. with your experience i am sure more than more people will enjoy the same hobby together..

----------


## EdwinTay

> bro.. i don't think that it is about paying more or less than most people.. As a senior(in term of age) and experienced hobbyist, shouldn't you guide the newbies like me along rather than saying i am a serial apisto killer? prevent the newbie following your footsteps and learning the hard way.. with your experience i am sure more than more people will enjoy the same hobby together..



chill bro.

----------


## joopsg

Ok. Let's look forward and enjoy our common hobby.. 

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

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## Milk

Venom, I think edwintay meant as a joke.. please don't take it too personally ya.. you know that we all meant well and we will gladly share whatever experience and knowledge we have.

----------


## venom

i always look forward and enjoy the hobby bro..
last saturday i itchy hand and bought a pair of caca triple red from c328

----------


## venom

> Venom, I think edwintay meant as a joke.. please don't take it too personally ya.. you know that we all meant well and we will gladly share whatever experience and knowledge we have.


sometime joke may backfire when you say it a lot of time.. did not take it too personal but sometime its just hurting.

----------


## mobile2007

When you buy the apisto pair from the LFS, do you think the farm will bother to pair them from a different parent? I dont think so. Also, many of the so callled "Wild caught" apisto, how many can actually verified to be true? We also can not tell. 

We just have to do our own part. When we breed our apisto, try not to breed them from the same linage for too many generations.

----------


## illumnae

> bro. you talk like i am purposely wasting my money to kill apisto? i might as well buy delicacy for myself to eat better than throw money into small fishes like apisto. you think i feel happy when the fish dead?


Bro venom, just ignore such insensitive and senseless comments la, no point getting angry over someone else hiding behind a keyboard  :Smile:  From your collection and postings can tell you are passionate about the hobby too. Don't rush too fast but slowly keep and learn more about these lovely fish. Your success rate will surely go up

----------


## illumnae

> Hi illumnae,
> Have a bit of free tme on hand now and seriously..apistograma addiction are hard to get rid off.
> How did you know ??
> In actual fact, parts of the plans has being running for a while and I intend to kick it off once I seen some result. And I guess it's about time soon..


Hi bro, I was at a certain LFS you shared your plans with shortly after you dropped by and he told me as he knew I was in the same hobby  :Smile:  Once he mentioned your name it kickstarted memories from when I was still a newbie into the hobby years back and you were sharing advice with us newbies  :Smile: 




> When you buy the apisto pair from the LFS, do you think the farm will bother to pair them from a different parent? I dont think so. Also, many of the so callled "Wild caught" apisto, how many can actually verified to be true? We also can not tell. 
> 
> We just have to do our own part. When we breed our apisto, try not to breed them from the same linage for too many generations.


You'll have to purchase from trustworthy LFS who can share with you the source of their apistos. From there you can determine whether or not the fish are wc. Generally we know LFS like JZX and NKS import themselves from South America and definitely get wildcaught species. JZX also has cb species though so you'll have to ask the boss. Stones also brings in fish from South America, but generally not dwarf cichlids except dwarf pikes. Stones has an order list that they can bring in regularly from Taiwan, and those are cb from farm. Stones also is the distributor of Jeff Rapps and once in awhile they will organize MO from JR. Usually no apistos on the list, but other dwarf cichlids like Dicrossus, Crenicara and Laetacara are available - those are usually wc or f1. The "normal" LFS like C328 etc don't bring in their own fish. Their main supplier is a Malaysian farm, so chances of getting wild apistos from them is close to nil.

----------


## mobile2007

Walau, I got captive bred apisto to keep enough already. Pocket not deep enough lah .  :Grin: 




> Hi bro, I was at a certain LFS you shared your plans with shortly after you dropped by and he told me as he knew I was in the same hobby  Once he mentioned your name it kickstarted memories from when I was still a newbie into the hobby years back and you were sharing advice with us newbies 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll have to purchase from trustworthy LFS who can share with you the source of their apistos. From there you can determine whether or not the fish are wc. Generally we know LFS like JZX and NKS import themselves from South America and definitely get wildcaught species. JZX also has cb species though so you'll have to ask the boss. Stones also brings in fish from South America, but generally not dwarf cichlids except dwarf pikes. Stones has an order list that they can bring in regularly from Taiwan, and those are cb from farm. Stones also is the distributor of Jeff Rapps and once in awhile they will organize MO from JR. Usually no apistos on the list, but other dwarf cichlids like Dicrossus, Crenicara and Laetacara are available - those are usually wc or f1. The "normal" LFS like C328 etc don't bring in their own fish. Their main supplier is a Malaysian farm, so chances of getting wild apistos from them is close to nil.

----------


## nicktc

How to get a shy mamuri to 'rubba'  :Knockout: 

This male mamuri was initially a bully. Will charge and chase the female ans small guppies in the tank.
But when the gal decided to come out and play, we will 'dart' away if she gets too close. 

Was thinking of adding in another male apisto ... not sure if that will help.

----------


## venom

> How to get a shy mamuri to 'rubba' 
> 
> This male mamuri was initially a bully. Will charge and chase the female ans small guppies in the tank.
> But when the gal decided to come out and play, we will 'dart' away if she gets too close. 
> 
> Was thinking of adding in another male apisto ... not sure if that will help.



nice bro.. where did you got this pair from? i keen to get 1 pair as well.
thanks for sharing

----------


## nicktc

This pair is from AC.

----------


## venom

> This pair is from AC.


ok.. i remember now. i went there and took a very long time looking at it. but did not get as i rushing for appointment on that day.
after that simply forget about it.

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## joopsg

> ok.. i remember now. i went there and took a very long time looking at it. but did not get as i rushing for appointment on that day.
> after that simply forget about it.


Dun worry, venom. You will get eventually. 

Nick, i preferred to have trio than reverse trio..

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## venom

> How to get a shy mamuri to 'rubba' 
> 
> This male mamuri was initially a bully. Will charge and chase the female ans small guppies in the tank.
> But when the gal decided to come out and play, we will 'dart' away if she gets too close. 
> 
> Was thinking of adding in another male apisto ... not sure if that will help.


i have the same issue as you bro.. it happen to my hongsloi..

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## joopsg

Do major water change?

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## venom

> Do major water change?
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


mine is after the female laid eggs. the male got scared by the female agressiveness.
since then i had remove the male out to another tank.

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## Milk

So illumnae, you know most of my plans already? Keen to assist me in making it happens? I'm sure I need some of your expertise.

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## Milk

Hi mobile2007,
There are visiable signs to looks at when telling apart a wild caught species to a breed species.
And for wild caught species... they definately do not comes in pair..

I agree with you on doing our part.. that's what I meant by responsible breeding. This responsible breeding can bring about a very big effects if everyone of us do a part...
Can you imagine farms producing lots of in-breed species and nobody wants it?

----------


## venom

> Hi mobile2007,
> There are visiable signs to looks at when telling apart a wild caught species to a breed species.
> And for wild caught species... they definately do not comes in pair..
> 
> I agree with you on doing our part.. that's what I meant by responsible breeding. This responsible breeding can bring about a very big effects if everyone of us do a part...
> Can you imagine farms producing lots of in-breed species and nobody wants it?


sorry OT a little. bro your pm full

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## venom

my apisto wish list now is:
apisto erythrura
apisto sunset aka atahualpa

----------


## illumnae

> So illumnae, you know most of my plans already? Keen to assist me in making it happens? I'm sure I need some of your expertise.


Only know some la bro, I got a summary only haha. We can talk more via pm or coffee if you'd like

----------


## joopsg

Special Ops.

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## illumnae

> my apisto wish list now is:
> apisto erythrura
> apisto sunset aka atahualpa


Speak with AC, I believe they may be able to get A. erythrura (they may know it as A. sp "Rio Mamore" still). For A. atahualpa, JZX brought in before, maybe talk to them?

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## venom

> Speak with AC, I believe they may be able to get A. erythrura (they may know it as A. sp "Rio Mamore" still). For A. atahualpa, JZX brought in before, maybe talk to them?


sure thanks bro.. had intend to talk to JZX boss.

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## joopsg

Thought Sun Pet came in some?

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## joopsg

Anyone went down to check them out?

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## joopsg

> Anyone went down to check them out?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


uploadfromtaptalk1392716625079.jpg

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## bai

Yes the stock is in, i went last weekend. 

also bought a trio of aggaz double red.

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## venom

sun pet is too out of way for me.
maybe weekend make a trip down?

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## KEN LEE

> Yes the stock is in, i went last weekend. 
> 
> also bought a trio of aggaz double red.


Hows the trio doing buddy.

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## joopsg

Anyone had taken picture of Sun Pet shipment?

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## Milk

Illumnae, 
I will try to put everything on papers. Than maybe we can have a discussion on this..
Hopefully by tjan you do not charge me by the hours for all these discussion.
 :Smile:   :Smile:   :Razz:   :Razz:

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## joopsg

He charging by hrs or a pair of exotic apisto...

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## Milk

Illuminae retired from apistogramma already. . So that charges is not valid...

----------


## bai

> Hows the trio doing buddy.


They are doing well in my tank.

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## KEN LEE

Great...hope the babies come soon....cheers

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## illumnae

> Illumnae, 
> I will try to put everything on papers. Than maybe we can have a discussion on this..
> Hopefully by tjan you do not charge me by the hours for all these discussion.





> He charging by hrs or a pair of exotic apisto...
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk





> Illuminae retired from apistogramma already. . So that charges is not valid...


Aiyo, nothing to charge. All hobbyists drinking coffee together and discussing our hobby! Looking forward to hearing from you then Milk!

----------


## joopsg

Oh right.. Exciting project..

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## s9534891b

Does anyone knows when is stones aquarium going to bring in apistogramma again? i text him my orders and have no response from them yet.

----------


## joopsg

Did you text him according to his instructions?

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## joopsg

Stone's apistogramma is as long got shipment will come. But supplier at times may missed out 1 or 2 orders.

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## joopsg

FAQ:

-All Orders are to be SMS (no whatsapp,PM or email please, for easy collation) to 97710501 in the following format:

Customer's Name/Order/Size/Unit Price x Qty/Contact

eg.

Tan/Cichla Kelberi/10cm/$280 x 10/91234567


-This is an on-going order, with new arrivals added every 2 weeks or when there are new stocks available.

-Every Friday will be the cut-off date for orders to be collated and sent to our supplier for confirmation.

-Orders placed by Friday will be ready for collection on Every Tuesday or Thursday unless stated otherwise. Those that did not meet the cut-off date will be scheduled for the next following week arrival.

-Upon confirmation of orders, the full amount will have to be transferred via I-banking to :

POSB Savings acct 194-28356-3

Before Monday 1200h.


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## Misery

@nicktc Nice pair of "mamuri". My pair died due to tank leakage. Managed to save the fries, now about less than 1inch.

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## KEN LEE

Hi apisto fans. Do come over to sun pets n Aquariums to chk out the apistos..tks

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## mobile2007

If he never reply, meaning that next week or so will not have any shipment. If there is, he will sms you to confirm the payment and order.





> Does anyone knows when is stones aquarium going to bring in apistogramma again? i text him my orders and have no response from them yet.

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## nicktc

> How to get a shy mamuri to 'rubba' 
> 
> This male mamuri was initially a bully. Will charge and chase the female ans small guppies in the tank.
> But when the gal decided to come out and play, we will 'dart' away if she gets too close. 
> 
> Was thinking of adding in another male apisto ... not sure if that will help.


Gees ... I have over reacted.

Saw this on my way to the toilet at 3 plus am.

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## mobile2007

Congratz...nicktc. What a pleasant surprise, isnt it?  :Smile:

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## huhengyi1986

Free bit female just for apisto lovers at AQ. Anyone interested? Collection my place Jurong. Got from 328, I suppose she is CB. 9635 5319 thanks

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## joopsg

Hengyi what strain?

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## huhengyi1986

> Hengyi what strain?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


No idea... All I know is from 328 and should be CB. Watsapp me for photo if interested!

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## nicktc

Anyone tried this?

Just got a bottle from Aqua Empire.

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## joopsg

Saw it on AF. Just dilute it in water and feed. Must keep in fridge. Finish within 6 wks after opening.

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## bai

Yes i used this for my 1st batch of fries, after 6 weeks it have a bit of weird smell so i throw away the balance.

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## s9534891b

Just to off topic as far as i know onlly this few sell apistos:Stones Aquarium,Qian Hu,C328,JZX as well as wuhu and aquarist chamber and most recently sun pets

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## joopsg

Aquastar and Y618 occasionally also have

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## s9534891b

what apistos do they bring in?

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## joopsg

See what the fish lorry have, not constant..

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## Leon

Went to Sun Pets earlier... A very nice place... And a Friendly Victor if i remember correctly... Should go and have a look... Many pair of Apisto!!!

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## joopsg

Still as per last update?

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## Leon

Not sure about what They had... Abt 6-7 pairs of Aga Tefe... Rio Mamuri... All in all about 15-20 tanks of Apisto... Maybe 5-6 Cacu included... Sorry about the names spelling... Can't remember... Main shop here Apisto... Air Con Room too...

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## venom

hi guys.

a piece of good news for everyone.
Cichlid Aquarium is bringing some wild caught apisto soon. 
list as per below.

Apistogramma Iniridae “wild"
Apistogramma macmasteri “wild"
Apistogramma viejita “wild"

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## joopsg

The cichlid aquarium supplies.

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## venom

yes bro.
can buy from them directly. 
hope they bring in more exotic apisto

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## Swoop

housing my two pairs of trifasciata in my 3 ft tanks.
now both of them are breeding...
should i take out the pair with fries or leave them in the tanks?

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## joopsg

Bro Swoop, welcome to the club. That depend on what you want. 
Is the tank heavily planted? the location of spawning? other tankmates in the tank? Lastly whether you want the fries anot.

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## s9534891b

is aquaone still open?do they sell apistos?

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## joopsg

AquaOne think no more apistogramma.

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## s9534891b

> AquaOne think no more apistogramma.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Can u give names of some shops that sell CaCa?I m intrested to buy.

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## joopsg

You can try calling C328 to order..

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## Leon

> Can u give names of some shops that sell CaCa?I m intrested to buy.


If you Drive... Try Sun Pets... Had a few pairs 2-3 days ago... And it's A Nice place to visit!!!

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## joyshorty

I dropped by Sun Pets yesterday. Still a few more pairs. All stable and nice colours. 

The "itchy disease" strikes.. But managed to hold back.. Priority to get other stuff actually.

Hahaha..

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## KEN LEE

Should hv offer a discount. Hehehe..

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## benjamin216

Find the fishes at sunpets quite expensive. For cb fishes especially

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## s9534891b

if the belly of the female caca is rounded what does that means?Normal times it would not been rounded.

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## joopsg

Look from top. If the stomach looks bloated, it may be suffering from dropsy.

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## Milk

s9534891b;

What's the possibilities that the female has just being feed??
and how long has this symptoms has being going on??
What's your observations so far??

And joopsg;
I reckons that it might be feeding or another problem...
Dropsy does not comes and goes on it's own...

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## Milk

Thank you Ken!!
For keeping this hobby alive!!
Keeps bringing in Apistogramma!!



> Should hv offer a discount. Hehehe..

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## Milk

Hi benjamin216;
Have you seen or keep the German series of fishes before??
The wilhelmi super red elizabethae? Or the German series of Diplotaenia??
These are all captive breed apistogramma as well.. And these apistogramma are easily 10~15times more than the price of the fishes you see now..( Oh well,OK..this might be in the year 2005~2007)
But now with the existing imports of super red elizabethae from Taiwan or maybe even Germany, they do easily cost 5~6 times than your commonly seen species.
AND THEY ARE YOUR SO CALLED CAPTIVE BREED fishes.

So your statement do not really do justice to captive breed species.
With proper breeding program and quality control, captive breed apistogramma DO TURN OUT NICE.

Do try getting a nice pair of fishes, try to breed them and bring the babies up to sex-able age.
Than from there, you will truly understand why.




> Find the fishes at sunpets quite expensive. For cb fishes especially

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## KEN LEE

Thanks Milk. And to sweet it up. From tomo till Wednesday, I am accepting trade in ($15 for any apisto)for AQ apisto fan for any pair of apisto purchase from me.

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## KEN LEE

While stocks last. Tks

----------


## mobile2007

Ken from Sun Pets??





> Thanks Milk. And to sweet it up. From tomo till Wednesday, I am accepting trade in ($15 for any apisto)for AQ apisto fan for any pair of apisto purchase from me.

----------


## KEN LEE

> Ken from Sun Pets??


Yes sir...Ken from Sun Pets & Aquariums.

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## s9534891b

> s9534891b;
> 
> What's the possibilities that the female has just being feed??
> and how long has this symptoms has being going on??
> What's your observations so far??
> 
> And joopsg;
> I reckons that it might be feeding or another problem...
> Dropsy does not comes and goes on it's own...


actually on the first day that i brought from stones this is what i obverved :Plump in the belly.Few days latter both male and female went into spawning doom.7 days latter: Belly of female spotted not plumped. female was inside cave.

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## Milk

Did the female change to yellow after the belly become normal??And it's aggressive towards the male...
If yes, she has spawned...
if no... she might have not eaten for 7 days...

And what's the condition of the male now??
Still having that big tummy/belly??




> actually on the first day that i brought from stones this is what i obverved :Plump in the belly.Few days latter both male and female went into spawning doom.7 days latter: Belly of female spotted not plumped. female was inside cave.

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## s9534891b

the male i seperated already cause he kept harassing the female.Yes the belly changed yellow.

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## joyshorty

> Should hv offer a discount. Hehehe..


Wah bro.. Its poisonous enough already.. Haha

Dropping by soon again.. This time for the apistos.. Hehe

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## s9534891b

Hi ken, Actually i feel that discount postponed to weekend will be better cause usually weekend is when many customer comes and buy.Hope sun pets will consider it thanks. from:jun zer.

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## venom

bro edwin... show us your wild caught elizabethae sao gabriel and caca gold..

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## Milk

Hi s9534891b;
Belly yellow only or the whole fish is yellow??
If the female is totally yellow, she might guarsing a batch of eggs already. 




> the male i seperated already cause he kept harassing the female.Yes the belly changed yellow.

----------


## benjamin216

> Hi benjamin216;
> Have you seen or keep the German series of fishes before??
> The wilhelmi super red elizabethae? Or the German series of Diplotaenia??
> These are all captive breed apistogramma as well.. And these apistogramma are easily 10~15times more than the price of the fishes you see now..( Oh well,OK..this might be in the year 2005~2007)
> But now with the existing imports of super red elizabethae from Taiwan or maybe even Germany, they do easily cost 5~6 times than your commonly seen species.
> AND THEY ARE YOUR SO CALLED CAPTIVE BREED fishes.
> 
> So your statement do not really do justice to captive breed species.
> With proper breeding program and quality control, captive breed apistogramma DO TURN OUT NICE.
> ...


Yes I have German bred eliz, yes I breed them, yes I have some of the common species as well. Maybe I have a different understanding from what you have in mind. But I find your statement uncalled for. But the usual species that we see, comparing Taiwan captive bred to wild caught specimens of the same species and variant, I usually find wild to be more expensive, hence my assumption that captive bred should cheaper.

All in all, I find your statement rash and uncalled for, because you don't even know me to begin with.

Ken
if my statement offended you in any way, I offer my apologies.

----------


## KEN LEE

Hi all my friends. No worries be happy. Enjoy the hobby man....cheers to all. 

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## huhengyi1986

> Hi all my friends. No worries be happy. Enjoy the hobby man....cheers to all. 
> 
> Sent from my GT-N5120 using Tapatalk


Come here all happy happy keep fish and share. That's what I hope it will be... All grown up man liao let's be civilized  :Smile: 
Hi ken, I googled and saw the fb page. It's located at seletar?
hmm i bought 2 pairs of inka from Jzx, quite pale in my tank... Thinking of throwing ktp leaves in

----------


## Milk

Benjamin216;

My statement from the very first start is to bring justice to Captive breed species only.
What I'm trying to say is that with proper breeding program and proper quality control, Captive breed species can be really nice and they can be comparable to Wild caught species.
And by mentioning these German breed species, they are exactly an example of carefully captive breed species.
I reckon a pair of German/Glaser red elizabethae cost S$2XX. Do you know that Wild caught elizabethae" Sao Gabriel" can be bought at between S$13x~S$19x??

Since you do have some wonderful species on hand and you did breed them,i will like to encourage you to continue breeding them and bring them up to sex-able age. After going through these process and having managed to produce some decent off-spring, you will truly understand. 

I,do not find myself rash in standing up to defend apistogramma species, irregardless of captive breed or wild caught. They are really a special and beautiful generic of ornamental fishes.
I will still post the same even to those who have known me.

----------


## Milk

Hi huhengyi1986;
That's what i wished for this hobby as well! Enjoyed these beautiful fishes and bring this hobby to another level.

I have seen the batches of inka from JZX, they are still young and there's plenty areas to groom them well.
What kind of substrate do you keep them in at the moment??
If they are kept in light color substrate, they will not color up so easily....




> Come here all happy happy keep fish and share. That's what I hope it will be... All grown up man liao let's be civilized 
> Hi ken, I googled and saw the fb page. It's located at seletar?
> hmm i bought 2 pairs of inka from Jzx, quite pale in my tank... Thinking of throwing ktp leaves in

----------


## benjamin216

And my statement from the start is just comparing the prices of captive bred with elsewhere. What's there to defend when I myself isnt criticizing any apistogramma species to begin with? Since you mentioned wild can be cheaper than the captive bred ones, okay point taken, now i know.

----------


## KEN LEE

> Come here all happy happy keep fish and share. That's what I hope it will be... All grown up man liao let's be civilized 
> Hi ken, I googled and saw the fb page. It's located at seletar?
> hmm i bought 2 pairs of inka from Jzx, quite pale in my tank... Thinking of throwing ktp leaves in


Hi buddy...come over take ktp leaves...FOC...hahaha...also for coffee is u free...cheers

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## KEN LEE

Cool it all my friends. come over coffee on me..hv peace with our heart....不然辛苦的是自己哦。

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## huhengyi1986

> Hi buddy...come over take ktp leaves...FOC...hahaha...also for coffee is u free...cheers
> 
> Sent from my GT-N5120 using Tapatalk


Hehehe Kk I go there pick up and visit your stores at the same time

----------


## huhengyi1986

> Hi huhengyi1986;
> That's what i wished for this hobby as well! Enjoyed these beautiful fishes and bring this hobby to another level.
> 
> I have seen the batches of inka from JZX, they are still young and there's plenty areas to groom them well.
> What kind of substrate do you keep them in at the moment??
> If they are kept in light color substrate, they will not color up so easily....


Yea currently the cans sand which I got
from Jzx too.. A little light which I feel like changing to soil which is black...

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## KEN LEE

Omg...just saw some babies in my apisto rio mamore tank...cheers

----------


## bai

> Omg...just saw some babies in my apisto rio mamore tank...cheers


Yes last weekend saw the male already been whack till stay on top of tank.

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## KEN LEE

I think another 2 pairs also got babies....omg....hv to separate the babies?

----------


## mobile2007

Yes, forummer here can help you to look after the babies for free.  :Grin: 




> I think another 2 pairs also got babies....omg....hv to separate the babies?

----------


## venom

> I think another 2 pairs also got babies....omg....hv to separate the babies?


dont need to boss.

----------


## KEN LEE

> dont need to boss.


Tks my friends.

----------


## venom

Welcome. The female will guard its fries normally

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## KEN LEE

See quite a few pairs the female turning yellow?

----------


## venom

They will turn yellow when there baby or ready to brees

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## KEN LEE

Hi All. Sun Burst sold out....tks

----------


## venom

Female or sneaker male?


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## joyshorty

Male to me.
Are there any other males in your comm?

----------


## venom

Yes... there is a male in tank

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## venom

Please kindly help id this caca species and gender.
Thanks


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## venom

this is what happened after going into the tank.




so does it make it more like a male caca orange?

----------


## mordrake

> Please kindly help id this caca species and gender.
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Looks like orange flash female

----------


## venom

> Looks like orange flash female


thanks bro. did the video show better?

----------


## mordrake

Picture clear enough. Very aggressive when in spawning mood.

----------


## venom

> Picture clear enough. Very aggressive when in spawning mood.


you mean it is ready to spawn?
but i do not have orange flash male. will caca triple red able to crossbreed with orange flash?

----------


## mordrake

Usually when females are in yellow dress, ready liao. 
Whether will cross with your caca triple red, probably.

----------


## venom

> Usually when females are in yellow dress, ready liao. 
> Whether will cross with your caca triple red, probably.


thanks bro.
that mean i got a wrong female for my caca male.

----------


## s9534891b

u get from where?

----------


## venom

i got them from c328

----------


## nicktc

> thanks bro.
> that mean i got a wrong female for my caca male.


Triple red caca is just another caca from selective breeding.

So even if you breed a pair of triple red caca, chances of getting other forms of caca in the same brood is there.

So technically, I don't think there is such a thing as a 'true' triple red.

----------


## venom

So that mean they will crossbreed?

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## nicktc

> So that mean they will crossbreed?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



They are of the same breed.

----------


## venom

I see.. thanks for the info bro

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## huhengyi1986

Giant vijetah spotted at 328. 3 inches. No females

----------


## s9534891b

> Looks like orange flash female


that tiime i got from stones the female also like that one.

----------


## huhengyi1986

Sharing my old pebas. One of the most colorful species will get my hands in them if Jzx brings in again!

http://youtu.be/l_e8lBZhcKg

----------


## s9534891b

Just today, i put the male back into the small tank again.But for no reason it whack the female again.

----------


## joopsg

Most probably he want to spawn.

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## s9534891b

how u Know?

----------


## joopsg

Because i kept apistogramma before.

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## Milk

> Just today, i put the male back into the small tank again.But for no reason it whack the female again.


Hi s9534891b;
What is your definition of whacking??
If it's just some tail whacking, it's part of the courtship dance that apistogramma display.
Which means the male is enticing the female to breed...
No worries about this because if you had sufficient area for the female to hide, the female will be able to fend for herself...
And once the female successfully spawn... She will have her "revenge"...

----------


## Milk

> Find the fishes at sunpets quite expensive. For cb fishes especially


Oh wow!! So this statement is about price comparing!! 
My bad!! Must be old already and eye sight is failing me or I simply don't understand the post that the newer generation are posting!! Got to work on my language understanding before I starts posting.
Sorry all for all those nonsense post that I have posted that flood this thread.




> I think another 2 pairs also got babies....omg....hv to separate the babies?


Congrats Ken!! Guess you are keeping your tank setup nice and well that makes so many pairs to spawn!
Since you got so many pair spawning now... Can I just buy off all your babies?? I need some ditter fishes or as feeder for my wild caught adoketa pairs...( Since their parents are already captive breed, these babies breed under captive conditions again should be a lot more cheaper right..about the price of 2-3packs of cigarettes ok with you??)

----------


## s9534891b

> Oh wow!! So this statement is about price comparing!! 
> My bad!! Must be old already and eye sight is failing me or I simply don't understand the post that the newer generation are posting!! Got to work on my language understanding before I starts posting.
> Sorry all for all those nonsense post that I have posted that flood this thread.
> 
> 
> Congrats Ken!! Guess you are keeping your tank setup nice and well that makes so many pairs to spawn!
> Since you got so many pair spawning now... Can I just buy off all your babies?? I need some ditter fishes or as feeder for my wild caught adoketa pairs...( Since their parents are already captive breed, these babies breed under captive conditions again should be a lot more cheaper right..about the price of 2-3packs of cigarettes ok with you??)


 Recently, in my breeding thank, i noticed some thing funny.the male have always been in the spawning doom. the female is often outside but once awhile she will enters.what does that show?

----------


## huhengyi1986

Male seducing female ba? The male will come out flare at the female then go back in right?

----------


## s9534891b

yes correct.

----------


## huhengyi1986

Haha male telling her he ready... If female is yellow should spawn soon

----------


## s9534891b

at the same time male also developed stringy feces ,how do it treat it?

----------


## joopsg

Stringy poo mean got internal bacteria.

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## joopsg

> Stringy poo mean got internal bacteria.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


I using eiho brand medications.


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## s9534891b

at the same time can he still spawn?

----------


## illumnae

you seem more concerned about getting your fish to spawn than with your fish's health

----------


## s9534891b

can this disease spread?

----------


## stormhawk

API General Cure might work for the stringy poop problem. A sick fish usually will not be in the mood to spawn.

----------


## s9534891b

anyway if thats the case then i will quarantine the sick fish first,meanwhile is it advisable to pair the female caca up with steel blue for time being?

----------


## benjamin216

I got a friend who's letting go a pair of Uaupesi. Anyone who might be interested let me know  :Smile:

----------


## Apistoinka

hi all do anyone here knows which lfs selling apistogramma borellii opal... or anyone letting go theirs..

----------


## s9534891b

qian hu is selling.that time i bought 20 over from them.

----------


## joopsg

> qian hu is selling.that time i bought 20 over from them.


That is alot man. Care to share how much you gotten them for?

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## Apistoinka

hi bro s9534791b do u still have them.. how long ago was it when u bought at qian hu..

----------


## mobile2007

Can anyone identify whether this inka 50 is a male or female ?

DSC_0052_zpsb03aa65f.jpg

----------


## joopsg

Male? Can see caudal fin have orange ring developing. No black ventral.

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## mobile2007

Hmm, I am not very sure whether there is color ring at the caudal fin. Isnt the black ventral appears during mating mood ?




> Male? Can see caudal fin have orange ring developing. No black ventral.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

----------


## s9534891b

> That is alot man. Care to share how much you gotten them for?
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk


3.50 for 1 piece. but at the end all did'nt make it due to internal infection.

----------


## joopsg

> 3.50 for 1 piece. but at the end all did'nt make it due to internal infection.


Oic. In that case at that price, most likely you bought just A. Borelli and not A. Borelli Opal.

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## Milk

Hi Mobile2007;

Look at the following picture comparison...
Look at the area that i have listed out...
Inka-Female.jpg

Hope this helps...

----------


## mordrake

> Oic. In that case at that price, most likely you bought just A. Borelli and not A. Borelli Opal.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Even if not Opal, 3.50 is kind of really cheap. Don't recall borelli going for that price.

----------


## Milk

Hi mobile2007,

Are the specimen you posted above your own breeding? Or you purchased from somewhere?

----------


## mobile2007

I got it from JZX .




> Hi mobile2007,
> 
> Are the specimen you posted above your own breeding? Or you purchased from somewhere?

----------


## Milk

Mobile2007;
Have you done the comparison of your specimen close up?
Which gender does it turn out to be??
Those batches of inka was not in their best condition due to the tank substrate they are keep in.. thus they do not truly show their potential..
But they do have great potential since they are still very young. When I was at the shop staring at them... I do see an even ratio of male and female.

----------


## huhengyi1986

Got 2 pairs from Jzx and a pair at 328, waiting for them to mature!

----------


## alvinchan80

Sharing some fishes photos

Taeniacara Candidi




Ivanacara Adoketa Super Red




Apistogramma sp Elizabethae

----------


## Milk

> Got 2 pairs from Jzx and a pair at 328, waiting for them to mature!


Nice!! The batch of inka 3 weeks back at jzx, need proper setup and grooming and they will become gorgeous! 
Groom them well and do post a picture of them later!

----------


## Milk

Alvinchan80;
Nicely taken photo of the T.candid. Guess he is not cooperative enough! 
He staying too close to the bottom...

----------


## alfredliow316

caca wile.jpg

Cacatuoides wild-form

----------


## stormhawk

Alvin, seeing a photo of the Taeniacara pooping is a good sign as that means they are healthy.  :Grin:

----------


## alvinchan80

> Alvin, seeing a photo of the Taeniacara pooping is a good sign as that means they are healthy.


Thank you..  :Smile: 

They are spawning too..  :Razz:

----------


## joopsg

Wow!!!

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## s9534891b

recently Green Chapter brought in alot of apistos just to share only.and many r rare.

----------


## illumnae

Seen the list. Rare meh? Many rarer ones are on the way in

----------


## gregyeoh

Just saw 2 inka pairs and a caca pair at C328 today.

----------


## seudzar

Went to gc yesterday. The apistos have arrived. Time to buy

----------


## mer2623

What apistos they have? Thanks

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## seudzar

Check out their merchant thread. They have listed a long list of apistos. I only able to id apisto caca and inka

----------


## mobile2007

Now Aquarist chamber also has new shipment coming. The only thing is not having enough tanks.  :Razz:

----------


## joopsg

Everyone is facing same problem.. 

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## apisto31

Anyone has visited Green Chapter. Can please update the species that they have? Thanks.

----------


## joopsg

> *Available livestock (as of 27th March 2014, 12PM, THURSDAY):*
> New shipment of apistogramms and other dwarf cichlids arriving in the afternoon of _26th March, Wednesday_.
> 
> CLICK HERE FOR PRICES
> 
> *Shrimps:*
> PRL (Ellen Wang) Grade E3
> PRL (Ebi Club Band 1)
> PRL (Ebi Club Band 2) - _Coming Soon!!_ 
> ...




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## apisto31

Thanks for the list bro. I've been there today, gorgeous fishes!  :Smile: 
Anybody went to AC? Can PM me the price of Ap. Miua and Paucisquamis? Thanks  :Grin:

----------


## benjamin216

There'll be more interesting apistos coming in soon (:

----------


## apisto31

Hopefully, adults for easy sexing. 
Even rare ones sometimes not worth the risk of ending up getting both males or females. They don't come cheap therefore getting few pieces may not be an option.

----------


## s9534891b

actually i suspect that pet lover center at serangoon nex would be next to bring in apistos ,many rare fishes r coming in also.

----------


## sen_jie

My eliz Red finally spawned  :Smile: 

Hope i have the skills to raise them up, as the parent ate up their fries the previous round

----------


## joopsg

sen_jie: do not worry.. you are skilful enough.

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## sen_jie

> sen_jie: do not worry.. you are skilful enough.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


haha thanks for the confidence boost

my adoketa just laid eggs too... this is the 3rd time... first 2 times the parent eat the eggs on the 2nd day.

Fingers cross

----------


## joopsg

> haha thanks for the confidence boost
> 
> my adoketa just laid eggs too... this is the 3rd time... first 2 times the parent eat the eggs on the 2nd day.
> 
> Fingers cross


Steady!!! My adoketa no news yet...

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----------


## Cacatuoides

Just visited GC today, it's heart-warming to see LFS bringing in these lovely fishes back once again.
Pretty good quality at affordable prices!! Thumbs up!!  :Very Happy:

----------


## joopsg

> haha thanks for the confidence boost
> 
> my adoketa just laid eggs too... this is the 3rd time... first 2 times the parent eat the eggs on the 2nd day.
> 
> Fingers cross


Care to share whether your adoketas wild caught or captive bred? Tank setup as well?

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## mordrake

That's great news for Sen Jie! 
Too bad one of mine passed on and I'm not sure the one that's left is male or female. 
If add another pair and turns out 2m 1f how? But if 2f 1m should be ok right?

----------


## s9534891b

my male apistogramma caca passed away today.so it it ok to get a male the same size as a female to pair up with her or it would be better to get a large male

----------


## joopsg

Mordrake, post a photo of it then see whether we can help to see..

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## mordrake

Abit tough but I'll try to take a photo (tank on the floor).

----------


## mer2623

JZX just bring some new batches of apistos..just got the caca "mega orange" 

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## joopsg

Welcome to the club.

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## mer2623

Actually, im apistos addict, just hiatus for a year..now the poision is back

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## joopsg

Well i just came back after 7 yrs...
But not keeping apistogramma. Now keeping a pair of Adoketas.

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## zonkkie

> JZX just bring some new batches of apistos..just got the caca "mega orange" 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


good catch. the mega orange was really striking even in the bag!

----------


## mer2623

Anybody knows the guy from malaysia that bring apistos here in sg, i forgot his name and contacts

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## sen_jie

Hi, you refering to Jit?

----------


## mer2623

Yes bro, i manage to contact him already..thanks

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## mordrake

Here's a video of my adoketa. 
Any idea male or female? Thanks

----------


## joopsg

Mordrake, the anal fin extension got exceed the tail?

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## mordrake

Nope, don't think so. So meaning could be female? 
Quite aggressive as it killed all my male guppies. Only females left and red platies that produce quite fast. Probably feeding on the platy fry.

----------


## joopsg

Need a better picture of it..

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## outspoken

Hi, does anyone knows where to find ap. Elizabethae female? I mean anyone selling or lfs selling also? My female move on 3 month ago and my male has been lonely since.

----------


## marle

with the recent influx of apisto in LFS.. very tempted to get a pair..

----------


## joopsg

Super tempting....

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## mobile2007

Went to AC, the bitaeniata mamuri is super solid. Still got one more pair, better hurry !!!  :Smile:

----------


## marle

i have a top 4 Apisto L list. :Evil: 

1) Diplo
2) Mendenzi (Blue Version)
3) Inka ( The best specimen i have seen so far is joe bringing back from taiwan these  :Jump for joy:  large palm size ones with superb long finnage. They are so beautiful.. but nope i did not buy.  :Exasperated: )
4) Elizabethae

----------


## mobile2007

Good timing for those old time apisto lovers to return. Never before there are so many species of apisto being brought in by the LFSs.  :Jump for joy: 

-> JZX stocklist
-> Aquarist Chamber stocklist 
-> GreenChapter stocklist 





> i have a top 4 Apisto L list.
> 
> 1) Diplo
> 2) Mendenzi (Blue Version)
> 3) Inka ( The best specimen i have seen so far is joe bringing back from taiwan these  large palm size ones with superb long finnage. They are so beautiful.. but nope i did not buy. )
> 4) Elizabethae

----------


## pseudomugil

is it fine to keep apisto with gourami??

----------


## seudzar

Should be safe.. Lol

----------


## marle

*来*  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:

----------


## joopsg

Chiong lah, marle...

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## huhengyi1986

Got my self 3pairs of inka and a pair of algondo... Not enough tank space liao... I still have a few species I'm looking at

----------


## seudzar

Is it possible to mix a few pairs of apisto in the same tank?

----------


## mer2623

Depends how big ur tank is.

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## seudzar

Let's say my tank is 50cm x 34cm x 34cm. It's about 50L.

----------


## mer2623

Quite small i think :-)

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## joopsg

> Let's say my tank is 50cm x 34cm x 34cm. It's about 50L.


If you are keeping broad bodies one, can keep a trio.
If they are slender bodies ones, can keep 2 pairs with lots of hiding space.
However the dominant pair eventually will kill off the sub dominant ones..


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## seudzar

> Quite small i think :-)
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


What to do? We all have the same problem. CO don't give permission. Lol

----------


## seudzar

My recent caca pair spawn like 4 weeks ago. Sad is that only 4 fry left. Seems to me that they grow very slow. One good thing that they grow so slow as I don't have space for them now. Lol

----------


## joopsg

> What to do? We all have the same problem. CO don't give permission. Lol


That is the main reason. 

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## mer2623

Luckily my CO allowed me to set up breeding tanks at our balcony, keeping 1 pair in GEX M/L Tank :-)

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## s9534891b

stones website recently post that there is nanacara adoketa in the shop.

----------


## seudzar

Jzx also has adoketa

----------


## joopsg

> stones website recently post that there is nanacara adoketa in the shop.


Post the link...

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## s9534891b

sorry, the archive was taken from last year.http://stonesaquarium.blogspot.sg/20...archive.html.i mistaken it as this year.did'nt see the link properly.

----------


## seudzar

Jzx adoketa no more

----------


## joopsg

So fast? Look quite nice but i got tank to keep. Any brothers bought?

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## mer2623

Was in JZX last nite, still saw some adoketas there

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## seudzar

Was at jzx yesterday afternoon... My eye really fail me.. Lol

----------


## mer2623

Its at its usual location, bottom tank near the counter..tempted to get a pair of ap. combrae & ap. Wielfleck

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## seudzar

Buy buy buy...! I am running out of space. My caca just spawn again...

----------


## outspoken

Is there a Ap. Mendezi blue version? I thought there's only yellow and red. Even in pictures only seen with
these 2 colours. I was hoping mine is the red one but its yellowish instead.

Went to JZX just now and was tempted to get hold of the Ap. paucisquamis since its wild and the price
is good. But too bad no more tank.

----------


## mer2623

Just left jzx, shop still open past 9pm, initial plan is to get the wielfleck but only 1pc left

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----------


## joopsg

Should just scoop when you seen it. Any others things you gotten instead?


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## mer2623

I bring my CO with me, instead she's the one who scoop all the red line torpedoes :-)

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----------


## mer2623

She wants to get the Flowerhorn, told her to wait for a week, i will set up a fish tank for it :-)

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----------


## joopsg

> I bring my CO with me, instead she's the one who scoop all the red line torpedoes :-)
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Wah your CO also very steady sapu all..

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----------


## mer2623

Wahh if only i knew, i will told her to scoop the apistos :-)

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----------


## lewpoh

Anyone succeed in breeding Apisto? Just curious.

----------


## seudzar

My caca pair now breeding second round

----------


## Mir

My double red agassizii female guarding eggs/fry now..Can't see the eggs because she's dug a pit and placed them behind some dark corner of the tank...Waiting to see the fries :Smile:

----------


## lewpoh

Nice. I just started to rear apisto. Hope to learn from u guys. I got 4 pc of *Apistogramma Inka 50 WILD* from JZX. One confirm pair of Apistogramma sp.Black-chin from Green Chapter.

----------


## Mir

Bro how much per pair for wild Inka? Can PM me? Thanks!

----------


## lewpoh

Hi Mir seems that I cannot find the private message. Where is the Pm. Thanks.

----------


## mer2623

$80 bucks from jzx :-)

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----------


## vannel

And with a single Trifasciata male, I'm officially joining in the Apisto thread. Haha.

Thanks to bro Edwin for starting me off. I'm pretty sure he's going to poison me some more soon, judging by what he has in his tanks.

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## Mir

Bro lewpoh you just have to click on my name and select the option :Smile: 

Anyways, Bro mer2623 provided the input :Smile:  Thanks Bro!

----------


## seudzar

Ask you all, how many of you all manage to convert your apisto to eat pellets and what kind of pellets? Mine still feed on frozen brine shrimps

----------


## mer2623

Hmmm, all my apistos eats pellets (tetrabits) fbs and fbw are only their treats :-)

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## seudzar

Okay... Have to wait for the fry to grow bigger and once I transfer the fry to another. Then I try to convert them to pellet.

----------


## mer2623

Oh, didnt know that its still fry, well last time when im breeding i gave them BBS and microworm culture and some crushed NLS pellets.

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## seudzar

No no... You got me wrong, I am feeding my adult apisto with frozen brine shrimps all the time. Now the pair has spawn again and right now there are many fry swimming with the mama apisto. I worry that if I cut down the frozen brine shrimp feeding, the adult might feed on the fry. So now I thinking of feeding as per normal and wait for the fry to become bigger, then I will isolate the fry from the adults and then convert the adult to feed on pellets

----------


## huhengyi1986

The mama will chew the pellets and spit out the small particles for the baby apistos. U can manually crushed the pellets and feed the baby if u want

----------


## mobile2007

Aiya, now my apisto all hooked on frozen blood worm. Feeding them pellet they dont even look at it.  :Knockout:

----------


## seudzar

Lucky mine still feed a bit on hikari pellet.. Lol

----------


## lewpoh

> Bro lewpoh you just have to click on my name and select the option
> 
> Anyways, Bro mer2623 provided the input Thanks Bro!


Bro Mir i still cannot pm yet.

----------


## joopsg

Must at least got a minimum number of post before can PM.

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## vannel

Just a quick question.. Does anyone have any idea what an Ap. Trifasciata biotope looks like? I have myself a Gex 450 tank (using ADA powder soil to keep pH down, so its not exactly a 100% biotope, but necessary for ease of maintenance) and a pendant-type LED for dim lighting over a small section of the tank. Just bought like 4 branchy drift/bog woods from GC this afternoon to somewhat emulate a root system (which I assumed they would have in their natural habitat). The problem I have now is really the plants. I've read various reports on how Ap. Trifasciata are slightly different in that their natural environment has a fair bit of plants.. But, I have no idea what plants. Anyone has an idea what I should be looking for..? As of now, I only have those cheap java fern & windelov (attached on driftwood) but I'm not really liking how they look.. Especially the windelov (too bushy). A video or pictures would really help.

Thanks.

----------


## Mir

Hi Bros, watch this presentation by a collector about collecting apistos in the wild and an explanation of their habitat...It will help you set up your tanks. Some basic conclusions

The more drab species come from clear waters and the more colorful species come from murkier waters. This is because bright colors stand out in murky waters to attract females

The habitat is generally generally packed with leaf litter

Enjoy the presentation :Smile: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7lLKLGhMdQ

----------


## lewpoh

> Hi Bros, watch this presentation by a collector about collecting apistos in the wild and an explanation of their habitat...It will help you set up your tanks. Some basic conclusions
> 
> The more drab species come from clear waters and the more colorful species come from murkier waters. This is because bright colors stand out in murky waters to attract females
> 
> The habitat is generally generally packed with leaf litter
> 
> Enjoy the presentation
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7lLKLGhMdQ


Tnx bro Mir for the link. At least we know how it is in the wild.

----------


## Mir

No problem Bro lewpoh! Must share info to promote the hobby :Smile:

----------


## mer2623

Didnt know that Y618 still open past 10pm, manage to get my pellets for my beloved fish :-)

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----------


## vannel

I think they always intend to close at about 9.30pm but customers still stream in at that time, so they end up always closing around 10pm. Don't think they will chase people out if you are already in there. Haha. I'm going to need pellets too.. My new Trifasciata isn't taking to the NLS cichlid formula. Sigh!

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## vannel

The RUTSUUDDO wood I bought from GC is still settling in. Lots of mold now and I'm waiting for it to receed..

uploadfromtaptalk1398382041096.jpg

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## joopsg

Vannel: try to ask the previous owner or lfs on what it eat.

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----------


## seudzar

Vannel: try feed live feed first then slowly convert it

----------


## mer2623

What i do, is not to feed anything at all :-)

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## vannel

I'm just dropping a pellet or two everyday. Cleaning in up at the end of the day. Hopefully it will realise that the pellets are actually food.

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## lewpoh

For me I also will not feed them for 2 days. :Smile:

----------


## Josiah

Starving your fishes for a few days is the way to go.

----------


## mer2623

JZX is now selling juvs adoketas

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## Josiah

> JZX is now selling juvs adoketas
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Do you know what is the size of the fishes? Origins?

----------


## mobile2007

Just got my new HM digital APS-1 meter. Did some measurements ,

- NTUC Pure water ( distilled ) 9 ppm
- my tap water 114 ppm

- water treated with peat moss 394 ppm

- my tank with ketapang/peat water, rotten leaves 523 ppm  :Shocked:

----------


## joopsg

Maybe have to recalibrate..

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## mobile2007

Should be fairly accurate as the meter is pre-calibrated before shipping. Also, i have found quite a few posts on ketapang leaves increased the tds reading. 

The tds reading for my tank, i guess, there are many rotten leaves in the old tank. Usually i dont bothered to remove the leaves, letting them disintegrated completely in the water. Posting this to notify those using ketapang leaves to lower the pH of their water

My bitiaeniata from AC...the video quality is so so as using my lousy sony HP.

----------


## lewpoh

Nice bitiaeniata beautiful. So the ketapang leaves must be taen off after how many days?

----------


## mobile2007

Its very obvious when the leave started to rot. Just take them out when you noticed that.




> Nice bitiaeniata beautiful. So the ketapang leaves must be taen off after how many days?

----------


## lewpoh

> Its very obvious when the leave started to rot. Just take them out when you noticed that.


Thanks bro. Can pm me the price for the fish.

----------


## mobile2007

Sorry, wrong message





> Thanks bro. Can pm me the price for the fish.

----------


## mobile2007

Ok, I am quite sure now my TDS meter working fine. Mistakes that i made,

- Rotten leaves should be removed or not too much ( i really put in alot)
- I dumped peat moss into the pail and filtered the water out, not the right way as the peat decomposed in the water adding on to the TDS

Now I am slowly adjusting the water back. 





> Just got my new HM digital APS-1 meter. Did some measurements ,
> 
> - NTUC Pure water ( distilled ) 9 ppm
> - my tap water 114 ppm
> 
> - water treated with peat moss 394 ppm
> 
> - my tank with ketapang/peat water, rotten leaves 523 ppm

----------


## Ken_ng

Why put mirror in the tank ah? Curious

----------


## mobile2007

To let the male fish flare at its own image. Apisto looks best they flared, something like the fighting fish/betta.  :Smile: 






> Why put mirror in the tank ah? Curious

----------


## ichise

Hi guys ,

Just to check is it ok to keep dwarf cichlids in temperature of 23-25 degrees ? (aircon room ) is it too cold for them ? 
So far only tried in my living room temperature wise is about 28-30 degrees . 

Cheers

----------


## mobile2007

I think it shouldn't be a problem. In fact, i noticed that my apisto seems to be doing much better under the cool raining season. Of course, just make sure that you acclimatised them before you transfer them from 30 degC water to 23degC.




> Hi guys ,
> 
> Just to check is it ok to keep dwarf cichlids in temperature of 23-25 degrees ? (aircon room ) is it too cold for them ? 
> So far only tried in my living room temperature wise is about 28-30 degrees . 
> 
> Cheers

----------


## ichise

Hey thanks for reply ,
will add some to my room tank see how they fair , will acclimate them first  :Smile:

----------


## vannel

Rescaped a bit.. Shuffled the wood around for slightly different look.

uploadfromtaptalk1399645716204.jpg

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## seudzar

Vannel, manage to get your female?

----------


## vannel

Nope. No replies. I'll have to watch out in shops. Haha. Y618 does occasionally bring in Apistos and sells them separately. Might get lucky some day.

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## Misery

Just a heads up for those who are still interested in making orders from Stones Aquarium.


As spoken to Stones Aquarium, cut off date will be next Sunday, 18/05/2014.

He also mention that the quantity is still quite low. 

I will be doing all of us a huge favor of consolidating the orders. 

Please email your orders to [email protected],
Stating the order and quantity clearly, Your name, and contact number.

Eg:
Name: ApistoXXX
Contact: 98765432

1 pair - Apistogramma bitaeniataMamure, pair price 3-4cm $28.00 

1 pair - Apistogramma bitaeniata TEFE, Pair price 3-4cm $28.00


For payment, once all orders availability have been confirmed, please bank transfer your money directly to " POSB Savings acct 194-28356-3 " (this is stones account number) take a picture or screenshot for prove. 

I'm not getting any money or free Apisto for doing this, I'm just consolidating so that we can all enjoy our hobbies together  :Smile: 


Cheers!

----------


## seudzar

Misery, thank you very much for this..!

----------


## Misery

> Misery, thank you very much for this..!


Welcome 

Let's keep the hobby alive

----------


## seudzar

How I wish I can add another pair of apistos into my current tank.. Sigh

----------


## ichise

> How I wish I can add another pair of apistos into my current tank.. Sigh


same here ...  :Sad:

----------


## Ezie

Anyone able to advice on where to get them now? Looking to start with something easy to keep.

----------


## joopsg

Can try get from home breeder but maybe you can be specific regarding what you are looking for.

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## Ezie

> Can try get from home breeder but maybe you can be specific regarding what you are looking for.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


Looking for agassizi or cacatuoids... :Smile:

----------


## vannel

Can buy a single female?

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## Misery

> Can buy a single female?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk


Usually it comes in a pair, unless you can find someone to share with you

----------


## seudzar

> Can buy a single female?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk


This one you need to pay a visit at LFS to play for luck. Last time I got 2 male caca (one sneaker male). I happen to be at sunpet aquarium and happen that they have 2 lonely female. After some negotiation with ken, he let me have the 2 females... Hahaha

----------


## joopsg

Can approach home breeder but lfs with extra female always a better option..

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## vannel

Yep. Haha. Just trying my luck. No worries. I'll take my time to find my female Trifasciata.

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## zola0653

Can try Ken at Sunpets. Nice and accommodating fellow.

----------


## Misery

> Just a heads up for those who are still interested in making orders from Stones Aquarium.
> 
> 
> As spoken to Stones Aquarium, cut off date will be next Sunday, 18/05/2014.
> 
> He also mention that the quantity is still quite low. 
> 
> I will be doing all of us a huge favor of consolidating the orders. 
> 
> ...


A few more days before I submit the list..

----------


## Milk

Hey vannel;

I think I remember seeing additional female trifasciata at Aquarist chamber..
I think both their trifasciata are housed with 2 female...1 of the female looks big and ready..
Maybe you can drop by have a look or pm them 1st before going down...

----------


## seudzar

> Hey vannel;
> 
> I think I remember seeing additional female trifasciata at Aquarist chamber..
> I think both their trifasciata are housed with 2 female...1 of the female looks big and ready..
> Maybe you can drop by have a look or pm them 1st before going down...


Vannel, what are you waiting for? Lol

----------


## marle

i was actually contemplating if i should get a pair of apistogramma due to the recent influx of supply in lfs. After i got one pair a few weeks ago, decided to set up another tank. This should stop.

----------


## ichise

> i was actually contemplating if i should get a pair of apistogramma due to the recent influx of supply in lfs. After i got one pair a few weeks ago, decided to set up another tank. This should stop.


Nice biotope style , planning to add any plants or leaf in ?
If got space for more tanks why not  :Evil:  :Grin:

----------


## vannel

Nice!! I just managed to contact Aquarist Chamber on their Facebook page. Going to drive down tomorrow and grab the female. Thanks for the heads-up!

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## marle

> Nice biotope style , planning to add any plants or leaf in ?
> If got space for more tanks why not


Yup, probably gonna add some plants related to the biotope in.. initially wanted to get Buceps but boy the prices are  :Shocked:

----------


## ichise

I know right bucep price ...I may get few cheaper ones to try it out Haha
What's the tank dimension by the way ?

----------


## marle

its the normal GEX tank 60 cm with slightly lower profile

----------


## Misery

> Just a heads up for those who are still interested in making orders from Stones Aquarium.
> 
> 
> As spoken to Stones Aquarium, cut off date will be next Sunday, 18/05/2014.
> 
> He also mention that the quantity is still quite low. 
> 
> I will be doing all of us a huge favor of consolidating the orders. 
> 
> ...


Orders closed. Please do not email me any more orders. 

Cheers all!

----------


## vannel

Sweet..! Managed to snag the 2 extra females from Aquarist Chamber. Kudos to them for allowing me the chance to buy 2 females as a "pair".

The male is already chasing them around. Hopefully all goes well..

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----------


## Misery

> Sweet..! Managed to snag the 2 extra females from Aquarist Chamber. Kudos to them for allowing me the chance to buy 2 females as a "pair".
> 
> The male is already chasing them around. Hopefully all goes well..
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk


All the best bro! 1 male 2 female is my all time favourite combination.. Hahaah

----------


## vannel

So far so good! The larger female seems to be receptive to the male. I'm just a little worried for the smaller female. Going to have to buy more plants and another cave tomorrow so that the outcast has somewhere to hide!

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## sen_jie

any eliz breeder in this forum? Am planning to look to trade some juveniles in maybe 1 or 2 months times in order to increase the genentic pool.

----------


## Milk

Marle;

Why stop when the fun just started??
I see a lot of potential spaces for more tanks!!!
Re-organize a bit and there's more spaces for more!!

----------


## marle

> Marle;
> 
> Why stop when the fun just started??
> I see a lot of potential spaces for more tanks!!!
> Re-organize a bit and there's more spaces for more!!


Boss, from the way you say it, i think you have several tanks at home.. haha

----------


## Milk

> Boss, from the way you say it, i think you have several tanks at home.. haha


Ha..Ha... I'm just exploring the options for you...
Looking at the rack and the table size... if you re-organize everything again, sure can fit in a few more tanks.

And how often do you see an influx of different species of Wild caught or Tank raised apistogramma in Local fish shop??

And.... I'm not boss... I'm just a normal salary worker...

----------


## vannel

So my male Trifasciata has pretty much been chasing the larger female and forcing her into the cave where she's constantly hiding out now. The smaller female is just hiding amongst the wood and plants.

I'm a little worried about the females getting enough to eat now. The male seems to be chasing them the moment they leave their hidey holes. Should I be target feeding or trust that the females will be able to scavenge themselves.

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## s9534891b

does anyone knows if apistogramma cacatuoides super red is man made or wild caught?thanks.

----------


## joopsg

> does anyone knows if apistogramma cacatuoides super red is man made or wild caught?thanks.


Super red is a man made. Cacatuoides WC not much color.

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## marle

My almost completed minimal plants low maintenance apisto tank..

----------


## joopsg

Marle: what substrate are you using?

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----------


## marle

> Marle: what substrate are you using?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


just pH neutral sand..

----------


## Josiah

Nice tank setup.

----------


## mobile2007

How about adding some pieces and bits of ketapang leaves to make it more natural ?  :Smile: 




> My almost completed minimal plants low maintenance apisto tank..

----------


## joopsg

New Arrival at AC!!!!

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----------


## marle

> How about adding some pieces and bits of ketapang leaves to make it more natural ?


my regular lfs out of stock for ketapang..  :Laughing:

----------


## Leon

> New Arrival at AC!!!!
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


You went There just now??? Fast Hand Fast Leg

----------


## s9534891b

y618 arrived apistos just only is either caca or agassizi.

----------


## mobile2007

I am looking for NLS ultra red pellets and algaeMax. Anyone seen them in any of the LFS ?

----------


## vannel

Short clip on my aggressive male doing what he does best. Harassing the 2 females.

----------


## marle

> Short clip on my aggressive male doing what he does best. Harassing the 2 females.


your male really v aggressive.  :Well done:

----------


## marle

2nd apistogramma tank on the way  :Opps:

----------


## vannel

> your male really v aggressive.


I'm a little worried for the females. Constantly under stress. Not sure if they are getting their fair share of food. I'm thinking of separating the smaller female for awhile so that she can grow a bit larger and actually have a chance at her meals.

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## Leon

> 2nd apistogramma tank on the way


Very NICE!!!

----------


## mobile2007

Dont worry too much, the aggression is just part of the baby-making process!  :Laughing: 





> I'm a little worried for the females. Constantly under stress. Not sure if they are getting their fair share of food. I'm thinking of separating the smaller female for awhile so that she can grow a bit larger and actually have a chance at her meals.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk

----------


## Milk

Wow Marle!!!

ADA Tanks used for Apistogramma Tank!!!

----------


## marle

> Wow Marle!!!
> 
> ADA Tanks used for Apistogramma Tank!!!


Aim this ADA tank very long already. decided to give it a try

----------


## vannel

Tank setup pictures:

P1030769.jpg

P1030771.jpg

----------


## marle

> Tank setup pictures:


 :Grin:  :Well done:  should be breeding soon

----------


## vannel

> should be breeding soon


Haha. Hopefully! I'm just starting them on frozen bloodworms and frozen brineshrimp. The female hasn't really taken on breeding colours though..

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## ichise

> 2nd apistogramma tank on the way


Wa Marle nice !! Is that the ADA 60F ? Anymore pics of the setup ?  :Smile:

----------


## vic_tan0911

> JZX will inform whenever there is new apistogramma. Maybe you can check out their forum posting.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


hi bro can you tell me JZX and Stone they will update new apisto on which forum??

----------


## joopsg

JZX usually at Arofanatics. Stones apistogramma usually pre order 

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## vannel

Ohh.. Interesting. My female is in her breeding colours today and the male is staying away from the cave. Seems like there's eggs on the roof of the cave.

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----------


## mobile2007

I always wonder, how big the opening of the cave needed to be ? Now i think i have a rough idea.  :Laughing:

----------


## marle

> Wa Marle nice !! Is that the ADA 60F ? Anymore pics of the setup ?


yup bro.. is he 60F.. not much updates to the setup but i put in water and sand the cycle the tank first..

----------


## Milk

So Marle;
Who is going to stay in this ADA tank? Adoketa?

----------


## marle

[QUOTE=mobile2007;776795]I always wonder, how big the opening of the cave needed to be ? Now i think i have a rough idea.  :Laughing: 


[QUOTE]
haha mobile 2007.. 





> So Marle;
> Who is going to stay in this ADA tank? Adoketa?


Hopefully the babies of my current apisto pair.. till now have not breed.. patience patience.. maybe my pH too high.

----------


## ichise

> yup bro.. is he 60F.. not much updates to the setup but i put in water and sand the cycle the tank first..


Cool ~ look forward to it  :Smile:

----------


## vic_tan0911

> this is what happened after going into the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so does it make it more like a male caca orange?


hi bro, why had to put the plastic bowl in the tank?

----------


## vannel

My male Trifasciata got chased by the female and got stuck between the plant stems. By the time I got home from work and realised, he was already dead. Sigh..

Anyone with a spare male?

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## seudzar

You want to try GC? They got quite a few males but no females

----------


## Milk

Vannel,
Has your female breed and guarding the eggs???
Isn't it funny..... Ur male was just chasing the female around..... And now.. This happens..

----------


## vannel

My female is a first timer, think she ate the eggs already. Haizz..

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----------


## Milk

Vannel;
Don't know wheather you are in luck or what...
While I was in Aquarist chamber looking at their recent import, the staff told me that they have a additional male trifisca male.
They were intending to throw it into yhe main display tank once the algea problem has being solved... with the rest of the male only import..
Try your luck there again...

By the way... aquarist chamber recent peru port has some pretty strawberry, eunotes and pucallpeansis...
Some heads up for those wanting something special...
** Disclaimer** I'm not working or advertising for Aquarist chamber.. just giving a head up to those interested...

----------


## vannel

Really..? I was there yesterday and was asking them about Trifasciata! Maybe it was still in quarantine and wasn't ready for sale. I'll message them and check again. Thanks!

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----------


## s9534891b

recently i lay the ada soil in my aquarium .but when i on the canister filter, soil starts to jump around and even ended up in my filter compartment.is there a way to prevent it from happening .and how do i go about covering the gap between the thank and compartment and would it affect the apistogramma if i put them in? thanks.

----------


## marle

maybe your flowrate is too strong? where is your outflow and inflow?

(Ps: looks like dinner is going to be ready?  :Grin: )

----------


## huhengyi1986

Under flow to the ISO compartment covered?

----------


## s9534891b

> Under flow to the ISO compartment covered?


I not so sure.

----------


## s9534891b

> maybe your flowrate is too strong? where is your outflow and inflow?
> 
> (Ps: looks like dinner is going to be ready? )


I use the dymax pump.can the flowrate be adjusted?

----------


## mobile2007

Deep-fried WC apisto eliz ? or you want some adoketa steamed with spring onion and ginger ?  :Laughing: 





> maybe your flowrate is too strong? where is your outflow and inflow?
> 
> (Ps: looks like dinner is going to be ready? )

----------


## joopsg

Adoketa can pass to me.

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----------


## huhengyi1986

> I not so sure.


Wa Lao.... If the underflow not covered of cos the soil will go in la....


if flow rate is too strong, install a rainbar at the pipe outlet

----------


## huhengyi1986

Went GC on sun. There's a confirmed apisto pair in 1 of the tank. Female guarding eggs. Algodon if not wrong.

there is a male trifasciata tt is super blue caught my attention man

----------


## s9534891b

> Wa Lao.... If the underflow not covered of cos the soil will go in la....
> 
> 
> if flow rate is too strong, install a rainbar at the pipe outlet


http://www.mydymax.com/index.php?pag...t&Itemid=154.i use this brand.if got valve can control flow rate right?

----------


## huhengyi1986

> http://www.mydymax.com/index.php?pag...t&Itemid=154.i use this brand.if got valve can control flow rate right?


I'm not sure, I will jus but a rainbar, cheap cheap $2 lol everything settled

----------


## s9534891b

Just now went to that aquarium , many caca female as well as agassizi.

----------


## huhengyi1986

> Just now went to that aquarium , many caca female as well as agassizi.


Which lfs?

----------


## joopsg

I think he meant That Y618 Aquarium. 

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----------


## seudzar

Yup.. I believe so too..

----------


## s9534891b

JUust now bought the last pair of caca orange from c328.At first,it was breathing normally but i not so sure why sudenly it is breathing heavily,can anyone advice/

----------


## joopsg

Did u acclimatize them properly?


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----------


## s9534891b

> Did u acclimatize them properly?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


what i did was that i fill the bag with some of my aquarium water then i leave it there for 5-10 min then my father quickly pour it out that is when i realised it was breathing heavily.

----------


## joopsg

If the difference is great, need to float at least 30 mins.

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----------


## s9534891b

> If the difference is great, need to float at least 30 mins.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


the difference as in ?

----------


## joopsg

pH, temperature and other water parameters. 

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----------


## s9534891b

In my current situation, can the fish recover?

----------


## joopsg

Increase aeration and see.

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## s9534891b

If in the event of death that occurs under circumstances like this,what is the best way to troubleshoot?thanks.

----------


## joopsg

Check water parameters. But sometime the problem lies with the fish.

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----------


## s9534891b

anyway my apistogramma r now eating happily now but the only thing i noticed was white shit coming out.so will using parzi gold to medicate the fishes help?thanks.

----------


## joopsg

If white shit, best to use parzi gold and metro cure together.

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----------


## s9534891b

if treat in the main thank will affect the ph?

----------


## joopsg

Nope

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----------


## sen_jie

Any Apisto Eliz red keepers around?

----------


## huhengyi1986

Just got myself an inka from GC. Couldn't resist the male colors.... Wahahaha I trying to mimick the GC water conditions. Once u get the right water parameters, the fishes look stunning!

i will be reducing the ph and softening the water using peat moss. Should I use those Ada soil that GC is using? Currently is sudo sand base tank...

----------


## joopsg

Hengyi, peat serve the same purpose. No need to get ADA aquasoil. Just put a few dw to tint the water..

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## joopsg

uploadfromtaptalk1402980707289.jpg
My ivanacara adoketa tank.

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## Mir

I fave a 2ft tank with 4 pairs of apistos. 

I pair Caca triple red
I pair trifaciata
1 pair Viejita Rio Meta
1 pair Irinidae.

Right now in the same tank, the Caca, Viejita and Irinidae have spawned with various stages of egg development. I expect to see the Irinidae fry soon as it's already 7 days since they spawned :Smile:  

I can't believe you can get so many simultaneous spawnings within the same 2 ft tank!!! Based on what I've read, this never happens.. Usually they say either have a very very large tank for multiple pairs, or keep each pair in individual tanks Any Bros have similar experience?

My tank is full of java ferns with a pH of 5.5 (I use sera peat). Eheim 2213 canister. I feed the fish once a day with frozen brine shrimp. WCs are 30% weekly.... No special treatment...

----------


## joopsg

If you can provide sufficient covers for the pairs, I do not feel that there will be any problem spawning the fish. I believe the size of the fish also plays a part. Currently if the fishes are still small shouldn't be a problem, you start to see war when they get bigger.
Just want to check whether you dose any vitamin supplement, it will be good if you want to.
A good one to start off with Dennerle S7 which I had been using since I started to keep Apistogramma. It is also benefit the plant as well. You all can try it out.


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----------


## Mir

Thanks Bro Henry! Love keeping Apistos! Such rewarding fish :Smile:

----------


## mobile2007

Very amazing  :Well done: . Would appreciate if you can post one of your full tank pics.





> I fave a 2ft tank with 4 pairs of apistos. 
> 
> I pair Caca triple red
> I pair trifaciata
> 1 pair Viejita Rio Meta
> 1 pair Irinidae.
> 
> Right now in the same tank, the Caca, Viejita and Irinidae have spawned with various stages of egg development. I expect to see the Irinidae fry soon as it's already 7 days since they spawned 
> 
> ...

----------


## solidbrik

What are go community fish to keep with ap ah? 

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## seudzar

What kind of apisto are you keeping? 

Currently I am keeping caca together a small group of galaxy rasboras, a couple of Otos and 5 brown pencil fish. 


As my caca are spawning, the female caca is very fierce and been chasing all other fishes, no fatal incident yet. However I do find some dried shrimps on my floor near its tank, probably the shrimps jump out when the caca chase them.

----------


## solidbrik

Have not zoomed in on a specific type of AP.. am thinking of setting up an office tank for them..probably a 1st smallish rectangle tank..love their colors..so am researching now and trying to find a suitable tank first. .This will most probably be sitting in office

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## s9534891b

anyway, recently 1 of my apistos i saw in the tank is encountering this problems:scratching itself on the thanks,and it also look emaciated also it has not been feeding.under this condition what treatment is needed?cause i have already changed almost have of the aquarium water already.and still like that.

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## joopsg

Too drastic change of water will affect fish. If there is a sudden change of water, they may succumb to white spot. Check for any sign of white poo or change in coloration.

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## venom

intend to keep a pair of apisto in office. may i check will apisto survive without airpump?
company do not allow staffs to use the power plug..

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## huhengyi1986

Ehhh better not keep if no air pump. Unless 3 feet tank and just keep a pair of apisto so tt the oxygen can dissolve into the water surface

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## venom

> Ehhh better not keep if no air pump. Unless 3 feet tank and just keep a pair of apisto so tt the oxygen can dissolve into the water surface


look like i need to get a battery operated airpump

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## s9534891b

> Too drastic change of water will affect fish. If there is a sudden change of water, they may succumb to white spot. Check for any sign of white poo or change in coloration.


The fish turned white.only,white poo also seen.so how to treat?

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## joopsg

Parzi gold and metro cure. ..

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## s9534891b

> Parzi gold and metro cure. ..


that means to say is it 1 day use parzi gold, another day use metro cure or put the 2 in at the same time?

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## joopsg

Parzi gold 1 dosage can last 5 days. Metro cure need to dose continuously for 3 days.
Can dose together.

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## s9534891b

tried treating it in a quarentine thank.the apisto died today after 2-3 days of treatment using parzi gold and metro cure. In the main thank, the ph is around 5.8-5.9

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## joopsg

If you see sunken belly, it may be too late.

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## leonard6july

> tried treating it in a quarentine thank.the apisto died today after 2-3 days of treatment using parzi gold and metro cure. In the main thank, the ph is around 5.8-5.9


RIP. At least it was not a pointless "jump out of tank" death.

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## s9534891b

> If you see sunken belly, it may be too late.


Belly was abit sunken.

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## s9534891b



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## s9534891b

Noticed that for a very long time already after i do a major revamp .those patchy things and it also come with bubble i can't figure out what are they r they harmful to apistos?

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## stormhawk

What patchy things? I only see a cleared area of substrate showing the styrofoam base under your tank. If you're referring to the oily stuff on the surface of the water, it is just a biofilm. That basically means your tank is having a buildup of waste material, in your case, after you disturb the substrate it causes this. Increase surface agitation/water flow or get a skimmer, along with a water change and it should fix the problem.

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## huhengyi1986

Anyone has steel blue females? Just got myself 2 magnificent males

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## s9534891b

> Anyone has steel blue females? Just got myself 2 magnificent males


from where?

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## seudzar

You might want to check sunpets.

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## s9534891b

actually to my understanding, steelblue often end up in the tiong bahru aquarium to my understanding

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## Neebs

It had been months since you with me... RIP, hope you find a better place.
IMG_0029.jpg

Yesterday, spotted the male dead and the symptoms are unknown to me.

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## Neebs

Gentlemens, now I got a widow to sell to hobbyist only.
Please visited my post in the marketplace for details.

IMG_0023.jpg

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## s9534891b

1 pair of unkown apistogramma is currently @ wuhu according to its onwer.

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## mkt

anyone has or know of any Inka(50) females available?

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## outspoken

Bro you can try request from c328. Last 2 weeks they have 1 pair on the guppy shelves and cheap. Alternatively you can also try out GC as previous they had 1 last pair up for sale and on 15% discount. If you just want female then i guess you have to wait for someone to let go.

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## mkt

Thanks will check - just wondering how come nobody breeding and letting go

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## joopsg

Can try calling AC to check whether they have any extra female for sale.

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## alvinchan80

Sharing,

Apistogramma Megaptera 'Super Red' (tank raised)


Apistogramma Geyphra 'yellow' (wild caught)


Apistogramma sp baenschi/inka50 (wild caught)


Thank you..

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## mchw8055

Hey Alvin., happens to have any fries? From your apisto...

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## seudzar

Sharing my caca photos, this is a sub adult from my second batch 

Attachment 43713

Attachment 43714

Attachment 43715

Attachment 43716

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## joopsg

Thread a bit quiet. Everyone busy with fries?

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## seudzar

No lah. No action. My papa male dead 3 weeks ago. So no action. Concentrate into sp red neon, hastatus and getrudae. Haha

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## tureblue82

is apisto very fragile?...seem like death is quite common?

does apisto pair need a large tank? 1.5FT tank enough?

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## joopsg

> is apisto very fragile?...seem like death is quite common?
> 
> does apisto pair need a large tank? 1.5FT tank enough?


They are not fragile. Is that aggression will arise when they spawn.

Tank size depend on species.
1.5Ft can be used to keep a pair of slen

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## seudzar

Agree with joopsg.

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## tureblue82

sorry i tried searching for slen but nothing relevant seems to come out.

Any longer name? :Grin:

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## joopsg

A pair of slender bodies Apistogramma. Sorry did not realise text got chopped.

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## tureblue82

just gotten a pair of 
*Apistogramma cacatuoides*from y618...but i think i got 2 females, will post the pics up for the experts to confirm soon...

.what a poisonous thread! :Grin:

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## seudzar

Post photos..! It's not easy to find female. Haha

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## tureblue82

hi experts...very hard to photo,so i decided to do a video instead :Grin: 

http://youtu.be/_Rwoo7nc_C4

big one is female right?.......what about the smaller one....?

seems like the tail part theres a bit of spiky-ness at the end.

Is the current too strong? im using HOF that can be adjusted.



pardon my decoration,still waiting for driftwood to sink.

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## joopsg

Big one is male. Usually male colorful

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## seudzar

Agree with joopsp

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## tureblue82

is the current too strong?
should i tune it down somemore or just switch to sponge filter?

the smaller apisto stil too young to sex?

3rd day already,the big guy still in dark body colors with bright finnage colors.
Is this stress or normal?..hmm.

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## joopsg

> is the current too strong?
> should i tune it down somemore or just switch to sponge filter?
> 
> the smaller apisto stil too young to sex?
> 
> 3rd day already,the big guy still in dark body colors with bright finnage colors.
> Is this stress or normal?..hmm.


You can switch to just sponge filter if your tank is fully cycled.

The smaller size one need a better photo to sex.

Is the male swimming around or just hiding in one corner?
If swimming around then it is normal.

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## tureblue82

Thanks for the quick reply! :Grin: 

It's a fully cycled tank(with culled shrimps),has been running for 1 year plus already.

He is not a shy one and always like to hang around in front and everywhere....doesnt seem to be scared of me.

Only when night then i spotted him near the cave looking thing.

Sometimes i see the big and small one following each other.

The smaller fish is around 2cm-2.5cm.


Can't wait for my de-commisioned driftwood to sink again to create a more natural look to the tank!




> You can switch to just sponge filter if your tank is fully cycled.
> 
> The smaller size one need a better photo to sex.
> 
> Is the male swimming around or just hiding in one corner?
> If swimming around then it is normal.

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## joopsg

As what you described, you are fine. Give us another clearer picture of the smaller one to confirm.

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## tureblue82

close up view~ :Grin: 
http://youtu.be/EgE2FR0-Vns

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## tureblue82

saw one tank of Apisto Panduro at y618 today.....managed to hold back the itchy-hand syndrome. :Grin: 

how to sex these guys?.....look practically the same.


stones closed down already?

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## Milk

Trueblue82:
1: The tank flow rate is kind of fast/strong. Either you face your outlet towards the tank wall to slow it down or switch to sponge filter.
2: Personally, i suggest you add a bit more hiding space for them.
3: Looks like you might have a sneaker male.
4: Both of them are of different varient. Bigger one is an orange flash. And i suspect that the smaller 1 is a red.
5: The orange flash looks big and old. You will have a high chance of the smaller pieces out-living the Orange Flash.
6: They looks like those breed by Malaysia farm. With super low quality control and I believed they are super in breed. Genetically, they are weak and I don't recommend breeding them anymore. 

Just enjoy their presence in your tank.

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## tureblue82

very detailed reply! Thanks!

i decided to return the two fishes back to the LFS and went down JZX to get another pair, Apisto Borelli. :Grin: 

Young pair ,only about less than 1inch size,hope to see them realise their potential soon. :Smile: 



Will post the pics once i acclimatise them and able to take decent pics.

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## tureblue82

hi guys, this is my borelli pair.

http://youtu.be/IZ5llqZmquI

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## sheng

I think it not a good idea to keep gory in there if you want to bred the borelli

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## sheng

Sorry. Should be cory, not gory

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## tureblue82

> I think it not a good idea to keep gory in there if you want to bred the borelli


he is just an old remnant from a previous setup,temporary staying there only. :Grin:

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## seudzar

Curious why it is not a good idea of having cory when breeding borelli?

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## joopsg

Corys are known to be egg eaters.

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## seudzar

So far no problem for me, maybe mine is dwarf cories

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## tureblue82

Now my apisto is like doing this weird slow swimming curled up pattern when it sees the female sometimes.
Looks like some mating action.

clearer pic of my borelli with flash :Grin: 
20141118_113746.jpg

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## mobile2007

Difficult to sex my bitianiata young adult. Many of them have black color on their pelvic fin (female), yet you can see the purple pattern on their tails (male). 

So what i am doing now, split them into smaller group of 3 or 4. Also, look at their behaviour, those more aggressive one most likely to be male.

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## tureblue82

if you split,won't the chances of pairing up naturally lessen?

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## mobile2007

Once you can identify the sex, pairing up should not be a big problem.




> if you split,won't the chances of pairing up naturally lessen?

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## marle

anybody knows where i can get an Apisto Mendenzi Female? Mine passed...

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## marle

apisto forum so quiet?

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## seudzar

Cos you are not posting anything.. Hahaha. Anyway, I just got a pair of adoketa, but they are pretty selective on food and stubborn not to eat pellets

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## joopsg

Came back to keep Apistogramma. Gotten myself a pair of Apistogramma Baeschi aka Inka.

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## joopsg

> Cos you are not posting anything.. Hahaha. Anyway, I just got a pair of adoketa, but they are pretty selective on food and stubborn not to eat pellets


Welcome to the Adoketa Club.

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## Lionhead

> apisto forum so quiet?


waiting for you to start the ball rolling hahaha 
Let's all post some fishes again

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## marle

> waiting for you to start the ball rolling hahaha ��
> Let's all post some fishes again


Recently a bro tempted me with a huge collection of his.  :Laughing:

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## marle

Going to BKK over the weekend. Anybody knows if they sell Apisto there? 

Merry Xmas everyone!!!Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May this festive period of yours be filled with Lots of Joy and Happiness for yourself and your family members.

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## Ken_ng

> Came back to keep Apistogramma. Gotten myself a pair of Apistogramma Baeschi aka Inka.


Bro! 
Pictures leh! Inka my fav! Haha

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## seudzar

The apistos in Hong Kong are not that low price. End up I bought only accessories which are a lot lower price compared to here

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## nicktc

> apisto forum so quiet?


My Tucurui bred in a 19 ltr, OHF tank setup  :Smile: 

Will leave them in there without any special attention. So far they seem to be doing well hanging around the female.
Male does not bother them, but seems to be hanging around looking over them.
Other occupants consist of an otocinclus and some snails.

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## joopsg

Wow, A. Tucuri. Where you got them?

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## nicktc

Got them from GC

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## marle

congrats Beautiful setup there..

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## seudzar

Nice nice.. Simple and nice.

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## mobile2007

Bro nicktc, any more pics on the male tucuri ?

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## nicktc

More pictures of male

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## nicktc

Was away for work for a week, came back and fry are still around.  :Smug:

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## marle

> Was away for work for a week, came back and fry are still around.


thats awesome.. no food for 1 week?

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## nicktc

Told my girl to drop 1 Hikari Carnivore pellet a day for the tank.

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## mobile2007

Thanks, bro. Very unique apisto. 





> More pictures of male

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## KevenBrendanLee

Where to buy apistogramma now?

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## joopsg

JZX, Aquarist Chambers, Green Chapter and Simply Cichlids on Facebook.

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## KFian

> JZX, Aquarist Chambers, Green Chapter and Simply Cichlids on Facebook.


You are really one diehard patron of apisto shop Henry ::smt023:

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## joopsg

> You are really one diehard patron of apisto shop Henry


Hahaha.... Apistogramma are fun.. Adoketas as well..

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## KFian

Yes they are  :Very Happy:  Any of your old apisto khaki still hanging around?

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## joopsg

Sadly nope. But some may be hibernating

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## KFian

Thought so ... you seems to be the only familiar name. Is there a pm button in this forum?

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## joopsg

> Thought so ... you seems to be the only familiar name. Is there a pm button in this forum?


Just WhatsApp me or msg me @98246761

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## marle

The largest collection now should be simply cichlids

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## KevenBrendanLee

> The largest collection now should be simply cichlids


They don't have any apistogrammas at the moment; I already asked them

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## exotic_idiot

> They don't have any apistogrammas at the moment; I already asked them


Are you sure you got the right one?
I just ask them...
Here's the thread.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...amp-Stock-List

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## fablim

My A. Bitaeniata



With Female...
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G7uxnxjRdm4/VRTMFjD5XrI/AAAAAAAAEaA/A8xX7B4****/w1524-h857-no/2014-12-31%2B20.48.42.jpg[/IMG]

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## vic_tan0911

i think it should be from peru, am i right?

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## fablim

> i think it should be from peru, am i right?


This one should be tanked raised, it wasn't indicated when I bought it.

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## ronald_t80

Anyone knows where can I get a A. Caca pair ?..... no need top grade, normal ones will do. Thanks

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## joyshorty

Go gc or sunpets better. Recently seaview has them.. But they were put in SU containers near betta fish area.. Without air pump.. (Shocked) n abit more ex then gc n sunpets too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## ActiveBlast

Any idea where can I find bonded pair Apisto?

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## tureblue82

can try simplycichlids, search facebook.

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## joopsg

I do have a pair of Apistogramma Atahualpa aka sunset for sale.

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## s9534891b

Seaview today i just went there got alot of apistogramma borelli as well as apistogramma cacatuoides while c328 lately have quite a number of apistogramma panduro

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## Ken_ng

Yeah but so sad to see those apisto pairs in beta jars!
No proper care sigh.

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## joopsg

Time for you guys to get some apistogramma pairs

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