# Planted Tanks > Plant Talk >  Glosso with LED lights

## gumball

Hi guys,

I am attempting to carpet glosso and my only lighting for my 38x24x24 is the aquazonic 6watt super bright LED. Does anyone have any experience with this LED and it is sufficient for carpeting using glosso?

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## Urban Aquaria

I've used those Aquazonic LED lights before, but in a much smaller 20cm cube tank. It did manage to grow some anubia and mosses, but i haven't tested with carpet plants yet.

I guess glosso could grow under that light but the growth may be much slower due to the lower light intensity, especially in a 38cm length tank. Just have to try and see.

Just for reference and comparison, you can check out a 30cm low-tech tank by chansl which was able to grow a glosso carpet with an Up Aqua Z-Series Z-10 LED (10.7W) lightset:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t-Planted-Tank

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## gumball

Wow that is some amazing carpeting. Sheesh mine is only 6 watt compared to his 10. I wonder if the light could be a problem as it's been a month but still not as carpeted as his. haha. Thanks for the link Urban Aquaria.

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## Naraki

5w Beamswork ,Gex Genoah 45cm,Gex shrimp soil. The Gex genoah is somewhat same depth as yours. So it should creep slowly. 

I do have co2 and also overdosed Ferts.

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## gumball

Thats amazing naraki. Are the glossos spreading? Mine is a 40cm with ada amazonia soil. Seems to be stagnant for a month.. How long do you light them up for?

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## Naraki

> Thats amazing naraki. Are the glossos spreading? Mine is a 40cm with ada amazonia soil. Seems to be stagnant for a month.. How long do you light them up for?


Yep. I only planted single stalk along the perimeter of the stones. They took off immediately. Takes around 2months to fully carpet. Light is on 11hours per day. Co2 1bps. Tank already decom

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## gumball

Wah... I see. Thanks! I only have it on 7-8 hrs a day. No co2 but I use flourish regularly. Maybe I should try increasing the time. Thanks!

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## gumball

Oh yah, do you think the size of the soil matters? Mine is the smaller grain one.. Noticed both yours and Chansl both used the larger ones.

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## Naraki

> Wah... I see. Thanks! I only have it on 7-8 hrs a day. No co2 but I use flourish regularly. Maybe I should try increasing the time. Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


Watch out for algae if you're intending to increase number of hours. Trial and error. 
You mean Excel?




> Oh yah, do you think the size of the soil matters? Mine is the smaller grain one.. Noticed both yours and Chansl both used the larger ones.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


Shouldn't be any problem. Grain size ones maybe easier for planting. And make sure you don't introduce any live stocks that feeds off the bottom. Like oto or shrimps. Until the glosso have taken hold.

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## gumball

Yah it is easier for planting but maybe its having a hard time trying to push through the soil to creep. Haha! Yea I use both flourish excel (carbon thing), flourish (with all the traces), and nitrogen.

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## Naraki

Good enough. Do take a picture and post here when the glosso have filled the tank.

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## Thug

Hi gurus, I am about to start a plant only tank. What I have with me are flourish excel, a 18' x 6.6' x 10' tank, equipped with a power filter and LED light. 

My question is:

1. Is my led light sufficient to support plant growth? 
Below is the spec of the LED light. 
image.jpg

2. I've seen some bros mentioned about light intensity. As you can see from the picture provided above, my LED light intensity is 40lm/pc, total of 8 pieces. What is the light intensity required to promote healthy plant growth in a tank?

3. If this led light is not sufficient to promote plant growth, any recommendations?

Thanks in Advance

I'm still learning.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi gurus, I am about to start a plant only tank. What I have with me are flourish excel, a 18' x 6.6' x 10' tank, equipped with a power filter and LED light. 
> 
> My question is:
> 
> 1. Is my led light sufficient to support plant growth? 
> Below is the spec of the LED light. 
> image.jpg
> 
> 2. I've seen some bros mentioned about light intensity. As you can see from the picture provided above, my LED light intensity is 40lm/pc, total of 8 pieces. What is the light intensity required to promote healthy plant growth in a tank?
> ...


That light is probably okay to sustain low-demand plants like mosses and anubias, but the intensity is quite low though... just a comparison, the equivalent length Up Aqua Z-Series LED Z-15 lightset (also 45cm) uses 24 x 0.5W LED, it is commonly used for low-tech planted tanks and most people already consider that "low" light, even then that has 3 x more 0.5W LEDs than the T-Series lights you have. So its a point of reference to consider.

I wouldn't say the T-Series lights are not enough to grow plants though (i've kept a tank with anubias plants under just ambient office ceiling lights, the whole tank perpetually looked dim yet the anubias still survive). Its just that with lower intensity lights, plants will generally grow much slower. The side benefit is algae also grow slower too.  :Grin: 

Maybe you can just try it out and see which plants can fare well with that light. If the light isn't sufficient, the plants will display weak stems/leaves and slow growth, then you can consider upgrading your lights accordingly.

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## Thug

> That light is probably okay to sustain low-demand plants like mosses and anubias, but the intensity is quite low though... just a comparison, the equivalent length Up Aqua Z-Series LED Z-15 lightset (also 45cm) uses 24 x 0.5W LED, it is commonly used for low-tech planted tanks and most people already consider that "low" light, even then that has 3 x more 0.5W LEDs than the T-Series lights you have. So its a point of reference to consider.
> 
> I wouldn't say the T-Series lights are not enough to grow plants though (i've kept a tank with anubias plants under just ambient office ceiling lights, the whole tank perpetually looked dim yet the anubias still survive). Its just that with lower intensity lights, plants will generally grow much slower. The side benefit is algae also grow slower too. 
> 
> Maybe you can just try it out and see which plants can fare well with that light. If the light isn't sufficient, the plants will display weak stems/leaves and slow growth, then you can consider upgrading your lights accordingly.


Thanks for your elaborated explanation, UA. I have a packet of HC, a cup of riccia moss, a cup of hair grass and a cup unknown plant to me, which I will provide the pic of it below. Do you think it's sufficient for the plant mentioned?

image.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> Thanks for your elaborated explanation, UA. I have a packet of HC, a cup of riccia moss, a cup of hair grass and a cup unknown plant to me, which I will provide the pic of it below. Do you think it's sufficient for the plant mentioned?
> 
> image.jpg


That plant in the photo looks like Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis (aka brazilian micro sword).

I've not tried such low light intensity to grow HC or LB before... they are usually grown with more light, but you can try and see if its possible. Hairgrass can adapt and survive under lower light intensity, but it may take quite a while before you see any growth, and even then it'll be slow. Riccia shouldn't have any issues, it can grow in various light conditions. 

Overall plant growth will just be much slower under those lights, so i guess you just have to give it a try. If the plants melt before they can successfully transition and establish in the tank, then its an indication that you'll probably need more light.  :Smile:

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## Thug

> That plant in the photo looks like Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis (aka brazilian micro sword).
> 
> I've not tried such low light intensity to grow HC or LB before... they are usually grown with more light, but you can try and see if its possible. Hairgrass can adapt and survive under lower light intensity, but it may take quite a while before you see any growth, and even then it'll be slow. Riccia shouldn't have any issues, it can grow in various light conditions. 
> 
> Overall plant growth will just be much slower under those lights, so i guess you just have to give it a try. If the plants melt before they can successfully transition and establish in the tank, then its an indication that you'll probably need more light.


Thanks UA, I guess I'll just have to give it a go an see the result. I'll post the results here, be it good or bad. Thanks again!

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## gumball

Its been quite a few weeks now and still no progress with my glosso. Here are some pics. I'm using the 6.7watt aquazonic led lights. Still no creeping, replanting cut stems appears to die and wilt. Lol. Also using amazonian powder type soil.

uploadfromtaptalk1402812330094.jpguploadfromtaptalk1402812346054.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

Looks like you need more light, maybe consider increasing the light intensity with another lightset, or get a stronger lightset (make sure it comes with light spectrums specifically designed for plant growth too).

Btw, when you replant the glosso, try to ensure that each plantlet still has abit of the runners and roots attached to it (not just replant the leaves), that will help improve its chances of establishing properly.

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## gumball

Oh man. I always read people replanting the cut parts. So I thought I can replant the trimmings.

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## gumball

okay maybe I might want to get the 36cm UP-Aqua Pro Z Series LED to fit my 40cm tank, however I noticed the plug shown in the picture doesnt seem to fit into our current plugs. Also, will 10.7watt be too bright for my fishes? I saw Naraki's beamswork also appears to be more powerful than my 6.7watt. My tank currently has 1xbetta, 9 neon tetras.

Edit: this is where i'm seeing the pictures, http://www.eastoceansg.com/up-aqua-p...ant-p-985.html
also are the legs extendable? I see that the length is 36cm, however my tank is 40cm :O

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## Naraki

My tank is 390 × 210 × 230mm. I think adding Co2 and ferts helps too

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## gumball

Hmmm. Let me do a daily dose of excel and try. Currently I dose twice a week.

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## Urban Aquaria

> okay maybe I might want to get the 36cm UP-Aqua Pro Z Series LED to fit my 40cm tank, however I noticed the plug shown in the picture doesnt seem to fit into our current plugs. Also, will 10.7watt be too bright for my fishes? I saw Naraki's beamswork also appears to be more powerful than my 6.7watt. My tank currently has 1xbetta, 9 neon tetras.
> 
> Edit: this is where i'm seeing the pictures, http://www.eastoceansg.com/up-aqua-p...ant-p-985.html
> also are the legs extendable? I see that the length is 36cm, however my tank is 40cm :O


You'll just need to use a universal plug adapter (can get them from most electronics or hardware shops). 

Although fishes like neon tetra and bettas come from shaded/blackwater habitats where there is very little light (and consequently very little plants), but you are running a planted tank with them, so you also need a good amount of lights to feed the plants too, therefore its a trade-off you need to make.

Most users already consider the Pro Z LED relatively "low" light anyways, so the intensity is still not too much for the fishes (compared to the even brighter lights some people use) and they will be okay with it.

The 36cm Pro Z LED lightset's legs is adjustable so you could get it to fit a 40cm tank, though it might just be stretching the limit. Maybe can consider the 45cm version instead, as the legs can be positioned in a more stable manner and it will ensure more complete light coverage. If you find that the light intensity is too high for the setup, just shorten the photoperiod or raise the lights higher up above the tank accordingly.

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## gumball

OK I got a co2 tank from my friend to try see if it makes any difference. First time using co2, what should I look out for? Do you leave it on the whole day and night? Also I believe the dosage is measured in bubbles, how many bubbles per second should I do for my tank? (Don't want to suffocate my fishes)

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## Urban Aquaria

> OK I got a co2 tank from my friend to try see if it makes any difference. First time using co2, what should I look out for? Do you leave it on the whole day and night? Also I believe the dosage is measured in bubbles, how many bubbles per second should I do for my tank? (Don't want to suffocate my fishes)


Co2 injection is only required to be on when the lights are on, that's when the plants use the Co2 during photosynthesis. When the lights are off, the Co2 injection should be off too, or else excess Co2 will just keep accumulating in the water column and may cause issues with livestock.

Most people use a solenoid regulator + timer to schedule the Co2 injection to start 1 hour before lights on (to buildup Co2 beforehand), and end 1 hour before lights off (so that the accumulated Co2 can be used up). You'll need to customize the actual on/off timings according to your own requirements though, as individual tank setups are different.

The injection rate is measured in bubble-per-second using the bubble counter attached to a needle valve... but that is only for your own reference (the ideal bps rate is different between tanks), it doesn't tell how much Co2 is actually in the tank. 

The bps required depend on factors like tank volume, bubble counter design, timing schedule, diffusion efficiency, plant types and density, light intensity/nutrient availability etc.

You need to use a drop checker to gauge the actual level of Co2 in the tank, it is usually attached inside the tank (but there are some external models available too). The objective is to tune the Co2 injection rate and timing to achieve and maintain a green color in the indicator solution during the lights on photoperiod, which will mean the Co2 levels are at the ideal 30-35ppm range (blue color will mean too low, yellow will mean too high). Note that drop checkers usually have a 1-2 hour delay in the changing of their indicator color.

Btw, get the drop checkers packaged with pre-mixed indicator solutions, much easier to use.  :Smile:

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## gumball

That sounds like a good idea to turn it on before lights are on and off before lights are off. What do people usually do if they don't have such a regulator? I will not be able to turn it on and off so regularly.

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## Urban Aquaria

> That sounds like a good idea to turn it on before lights are on and off before lights are off. What do people usually do if they don't have such a regulator? I will not be able to turn it on and off so regularly.


Okay, if you don't have a solenoid regulator and can't turn it on and off regularly everyday, then one method is to leave it on 24/7 but running at a much lower bps rate. 

You'll need to tune the bps so that it builds up very slowly during lights off, and when the lights are on there is still enough Co2 in the water to be effective. A drop checker will be essential for you to monitor the Co2 levels.

Some people use slightly higher injection rates, but set an airstone with timer to switch on during lights off period, this creates increased surface agitation which helps to offgas the excess Co2 being constantly injected. This technique can work too, but it tends to result in alot of Co2 wastage... its basically adding something in while removing it at the same time.

The main issue with such setups is it difficult to maintain a consistent optimal Co2 level and you have to constantly keep an eye on it in case the Co2 accumulates too much.

If possible its always better to use a solenoid regulator, it fully automates the entire Co2 system and makes everything much more efficient.

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## gumball

Hi urban aquaria. I got the drop checker. Will set everything up and monitor and update again. uploadfromtaptalk1403352422367.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi urban aquaria. I got the drop checker. Will set everything up and monitor and update again. uploadfromtaptalk1403352422367.jpg


Okay, note that the ANS drop checker that you got doesn't come with pre-mixed indicator solution, it only has the reagent which you need to mix with 4dkh reference water, do not use your aquarium water to mix it (contrary to the instructions), as that will result in incorrect measurements.

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## gumball

Oh man. I thought that was it. Does the 24 hr shop at clementi have? How much does it usually costs?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Oh man. I thought that was it. Does the 24 hr shop at clementi have? How much does it usually costs?


In that case, you can just buy the pre-mixed indicator solution and use that instead (its just a few dollars for a small bottle), look for the Ocean Free or ISTA brand ones, here is a discussion thread on them:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...cator-Solution

The 24hr LFS at clementi (Polyart) should have it in stock.

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## gumball

Okay! They didn't have the ocean free or ista one. So I got the up aqua one. uploadfromtaptalk1403433743362.jpg

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## gumball

> Okay! They didn't have the ocean free or ista one. So I got the up aqua one. uploadfromtaptalk1403433743362.jpg
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


After looking at online sources doesn't look like this requires the reference water. Yay.

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## gumball

OK I didn't see this behind while it was in the packaging. -,- uploadfromtaptalk1403439230730.jpg

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## gumball

Co2 running now at 7bubbles/minute for starters. Still haven gotten my reference solution. Will update in 3 days.

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## guppies_79

Hi Gumball, chance upon your thread and thought of sharing my own experience with Glosso and UP aqua Z-series LED. 
I got a 60cm Z-series LED, and if I remember correctly, the output is 21W. Tried to create a Glosso carpet 2 months back. No CO2 set up. 
The plants are growing fine for about 1 month, though not much creeping. By growing fine, I mean there are no browning of leaves. Some of the glosso also starts to grow vertically. Then for the past 3 weeks, the glosso starts to turn brown. During that 2 months period, I have been dosing ferts like Seachem Flourish, Excel, Phosporous and Iron (mainly for red plants, not Glosso) on a regular basis. Then I read that Glosso is a high light demanding plant for it to carpet well. 
I finally give up and uproot all the Glosso yesterday. I have also swapped my Z-series LED for higher output T5 lighting. May re-do my Glosso carpet to see if the brighter lighting makes a difference.

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## gumball

whoa that's so strange. Some of the bros seem to be having good glosso growth with only 5 watt/10 watt LED lights! I wonder if glosso requires high CO2 as well. You can see Naraki apparently managed to grow and creep with CO2 but only a beamswork 5 watt light. Interesting, thanks for sharing guppies_79! much appreciated!

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## gumball

with co2 the plants are taking off!


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## gumball

Oops forgot pictures. uploadfromtaptalk1405148402063.jpguploadfromtaptalk1405148434982.jpg

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## tureblue82

any updates?... co2 makes a big difference

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## solidbrik

Curious..does diy co2 vs tank makes a difference? Am thinking should not since both are just co2 right?

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## ltsai

Co2 tank has more consistency and less fluctuations.

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## gumball

Hi sorry for the late reply. Yes they are taking off very well with co2. uploadfromtaptalk1408095584215.jpg

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## aj5122003

T5 or led light b etter?

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## gumball

Mine is the normal aquazonic 6.x watt led light. Nothing fancy. Haven't tried t5 before.

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## solidbrik

My hc in 2x 6 watt t5 aquazonic in my shrimp tank seems to grow slower than my monte in up aqua pro z led..monte visibly creeping..hc grows tall rather than creep. .

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## gumball

This is what my tank looks like now. Almost filling up the whole tank! However I noticed that the glosso is slowly turning yellow and some have holes in them. Anyone has any idea what happened? uploadfromtaptalk1409978822588.jpg

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## Urban Aquaria

> This is what my tank looks like now. Almost filling up the whole tank! However I noticed that the glosso is slowly turning yellow and some have holes in them. Anyone has any idea what happened? uploadfromtaptalk1409978822588.jpg


Looks like signs of nutrient deficiency... check this chart to see what you can do to improve their growth:



Source: http://infographics.myaquacalc.com/?p=333

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## Urban Aquaria

Btw, corrected nutrient dosing will only help healthy new leaves... if the yellow leaves with holes are on the old leaves, then not much you can do for those as they wouldn't repair themselves, just have to trim off the old leaves (aka regular carpet trimming and pruning) to encourage new growth.

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## gumball

Thanks urban aquaria. You've been most helpful. Finally after so long, looks like glosso requires sufficient light but high co2.

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, although glosso can grow in tanks with less light and no Co2 injection, the growth rate will be super slow compared to tanks with more light and Co2 injection.... the difference in growth speed can be like 6 months vs 6 weeks.

Most people can't wait half a year just to grow plants, can already grow a long beard by then.  :Grin: 

More light requires more Co2 injection and more nutrients to sustain the faster growth rate, so all those factors go hand-in-hand.

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## Jan Harvey

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