# Planted Tanks > Beginners' Corner >  Lighting Duration for New Planted Tank

## LegoMan

Hi all sifus, would like to check how long should I on my tank lights for a new setup planted tank?

Here's the long story...

Running a small nano tank with Ada amazonia powder soil and failed using DSM with hc with all melted. Then I flood the tank, replanted new hc with co2 blasted till drop checker yellow...same thing happen. Hc melts after two weeks.

Now I replanted stem by stem easier plant Monte Carlo and have started to see one two leaves on like 3/10 of the stems I plant melted. Question is...what am I doing wrong here? Water change for first week is 50% every 2-3 days and this weekend will be doing WC 30% weekly onwards.

Previously for my hc, photoperiod is 8 hours straight with co2 and then I read somewhere that for emersed plants to adapt, photo period should be around 4-6 hours and then gradually increase per week. I have also slow down the co2 to 1bps dropchecker is green yellowish.

Hope that this would turn things around with an easier plant. Oh ya, they are planted since last thursday so barely one week.

Lights I use is upaqua pro led z series 30cm and tank is still cycling at this moment for 2 months at 25th Jan to commission with RCS.

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## Everlance

hi there, for a newly setup tank, start with a photo period of 6 hours first then slowly increase to a maximum of around 8 hours. based on your description above, your soil is good, you have co2 injection which shows yellow and the led lights are pretty decent. with these, hc shouldn't be a problem. maybe you can take a photo of the tank for us to see if you are doing anything wrong. also since your tank is just 30cm, try getting just one pot of hc from 1-2 grow and plant them nicely. i am sure it will succeed.

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## Urban Aquaria

It's normal for some of the weaker/damaged leaves to melt in newly planted monte carlo (especially if they were bought in emersed form from LFS), they will usually still be in transition mode and establishing roots during the first few weeks so you may not see as much new growth during this period... but once they adapt to your tank and root in, the new growth should be faster.

Just keep up with the tank maintenance and water changes (if your plant density is currently still low), and it'll also be a good idea to dose additional potassium + micro/trace nutrients to help support new healthy growth too.

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## LegoMan

Thanks for the replies. I am keeping up with the maintenance of WC weekly at 30%. UA, I have seek your advise as well for my failed DSM for hc. And yes both hc and mc are bought emersed. Am using seachem flourish for dosing twice weekly but will see how it goes as I believe the amazonia soil is still giving out nutrients sufficient for the plant growth (correct me if I'm wrong).

Another question, usually how long is this transition perios and when should I be able to see runners? I have told myself if this fails again, will go for moss liao. Hahahah but will try and try again first as I have standby mc in a plastic tub to replant. Will try to add some photos but don't know can or not as there is limited post count before I can post photos?

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## LegoMan

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## Urban Aquaria

> Thanks for the replies. I am keeping up with the maintenance of WC weekly at 30%. UA, I have seek your advise as well for my failed DSM for hc. And yes both hc and mc are bought emersed. Am using seachem flourish for dosing twice weekly but will see how it goes as I believe the amazonia soil is still giving out nutrients sufficient for the plant growth (correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> Another question, usually how long is this transition perios and when should I be able to see runners? I have told myself if this fails again, will go for moss liao. Hahahah but will try and try again first as I have standby mc in a plastic tub to replant. Will try to add some photos but don't know can or not as there is limited post count before I can post photos?


Transition period for plants varies between tank setups but it should usually be 1-2 weeks before you start to see positive growth... it depends mainly on the plants and factors like light, Co2, nutrients etc. Some can transition faster while others transition slower.





> IMG-20141207-WA0014.jpg1.JPG2.JPG3.JPG


Okay, you definitely need to plant alot more to cover the entire substrate with plants. That is really very sparse amount of plants to start with, it'll take almost forever for the plants to establish a carpet this way and all the excess light is just shining directly on lots of bare nutrient-rich substrate... algae will love it.  :Grin: 

If you have more monte carlo, just plant as much as you can, don't need to hold back. If not enough, buy more. Planting in very high density from the start allows the carpet to establish faster and enables the plants to soak up more nutrients quicker to help out-compete algae.

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## LegoMan

But I am having the lighting duration at 6 hours to control the algae and do you mean to plant more stems or small bunches of MC would be better? As I've seen some planted stem by stem this way for better survival of the plant.

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## Urban Aquaria

> But I am having the lighting duration at 6 hours to control the algae and do you mean to plant more stems or small bunches of MC would be better? As I've seen some planted stem by stem this way for better survival of the plant.


Although shorter light durations can help to slow down algae growth... if the light is still just shining on bare substrate and there are no plants to utilize all the available lights and nutrients, it'll open the doors for algae to use it instead.  :Very Happy: 

You can add more MC in bunches or individual smaller portions, but if you have the time, its definitely better to separate them into individual stems and plant them with equal spacing in a grid pattern (its backbreaking work, but worth the effort), that allows each individual plantlet to get maximum access to the soil and nutrients to help them quickly root in... if they were planted in larger bunches, there is a tendency for only parts of them to get access to the soil, while other parts don't, which results in higher chances of melting amongst the bunches.

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## LegoMan

OK got it. :COOL!:  Think will use the spare leftover mc in the plastic container where its half submerged in water. Or should I get the tropical potted ones? As u see the ones I got from the lfs, the roots are everywhere, long strands of runners with roots each segment and seems like the potted ones are easier to separate to plant vertically whereas the ones I got in the container had their roots by the side so don't know how to plant vertical as its already horizontal...dunno whether u catch my meaning...

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## Urban Aquaria

> OK got it. Think will use the spare leftover mc in the plastic container where its half submerged in water. Or should I get the tropical potted ones? As u see the ones I got from the lfs, the roots are everywhere, long strands of runners with roots each segment and seems like the potted ones are easier to separate to plant vertically whereas the ones I got in the container had their roots by the side so don't know how to plant vertical as its already horizontal...dunno whether u catch my meaning...


Either versions of MC can be used... just have to separate the plantlets into individual stems with a few leaves each, then plant them straight down into the soil. Its okay if some of the leaves on each stem are covered inside the soil (planting them deeper can help to reduce the chances of uprooting too), as long as at least a pair of healthy leaves are sitting above the soil.

The Tropica 1-2-Grow! cup versions contain very high quality tissue cultured plantlets (which can usually adapt more quickly to new tank conditions), but they cost 3-4x more than the normal pots/carton versions at most LFS, so it just depends on your budget.  :Smile: 

For reference, you can check out George Farmer's "One-Pot Iwagumi Challenge": http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/georges-one-pot-iwagumi-challenge.29695/#post-310700

Just follow how the plantlets are separated and how they are planted, along with the amount of equal spacings between each plantlet.

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## LegoMan

OK. Have replanted more mc stem by stem from the tub. Now it looks more compact and I have noticed some sprouting of new smaller leaves from the original stem I planted. Now overall tank looks more compact with more stems so pray for the best in another two weeks time. I have also started EI dosing with the seachem flourish but don't know will it be too much as the soil nutrients might still be enuff.

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## Gavan

how many weeks has it been since you started planting in your soil? sounds a little too early to be using EI dosing. 

do you have picture updates? 


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## LegoMan

Started my tank in 25th Nov with HC but all melted. So only last thurs (4th Dec) started with MC and replanted as per UA suggestion.

Started EI dosing for this week...

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## Pobbi

Nice tank there! I carpeted my mc without using fertilizers. Using ada though. What I can suggest is maybe you can skip the dosing first, until the mc is more densed. This will slow down the algae growth. I also think u should plant it more densely, then it can cover up faster/nicer. Drop me a pm if you need mc. I trim them once in awhile, got lotsa spare. You can have them foc  :Very Happy: .

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## LegoMan

Yup. Have stopped the dosing and will monitor the mc. Should I get rid of the darker leaves that r dying due to the transition and maybe u can share what's the progress like for your mc? Like a timeline from submerged new leaves showing to presence of runners to carpeting. Mine is a nano tank and I have replanted twice to make it denser as now shown in my earlier post. Smaller tank area should get a shorter carpeting time right?

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## LegoMan

Also a pic of your carpeted mc could make a great inspiration. Hopefully u got pics like from the start, mid and end full carpet. How long it takes?

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## Gavan

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1418395064.541384.jpg you should plant at least this amount..


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## Pobbi

Ups for gavan's planting, but as a Singaporean, I planted more, kiasu, haha. It took me about 7weeks to carpet it really nicely. I doubt smaller tanks will make a difference. Because its just smaller, the amount u can plant is the same. But powder soil will make a difference. I didn't remove the darker leaves, might be algae growing on it so leave it. My transition period mostly didn't melted. My photoperiod is 6hours when its 2ft fully carpeted.

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## Gavan

you're absolutely right pobbi. would love to plant double the amount. unfortunately due to bad planning my substrate was too thin and hence I could only plant stems quite far apart. nonetheless the carpet is now complete after a month of CO2  :Smile: 


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## LegoMan

The amount I have planted viewed front the top is the same as Gavan. Yes, I am using Ada amazonia power aquasoil as it gives more scale in ratio to my nano tank.

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## Gavan

awesome! all the best with your iwagumi


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## Pobbi

All the best!! Update us here  :Smile:

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## LegoMan

Yeah... Will do once there's significant growth.  :Smile: )

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## LegoMan

Horrayy...diatoms appearing. Guess I'm one of the few who will rejoice at the sight of algae but this also tells me that my tank is cycling good. I guess once the tank stablised, this brown thing will be gone as well right? What I did was to use a clean sponge to wipe down the sides of the tank. How about those on the substrate?? Ignore as it will be gone once the tank is cycled?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Horrayy...diatoms appearing. Guess I'm one of the few who will rejoice at the sight of algae but this also tells me that my tank is cycling good. I guess once the tank stablised, this brown thing will be gone as well right? What I did was to use a clean sponge to wipe down the sides of the tank. How about those on the substrate?? Ignore as it will be gone once the tank is cycled?


Diatoms will usually either dissolve away on their own after a while (while other types of algae takeover) or they will also be easily cleared up by algae eaters like shrimps and otocinclus anyways, so its not really a big concern. Though if you have alot of diatoms growing everywhere and coating the plant leaves, they may block light from the plants, so in those cases you'll have to manually remove them if possible.

I usually just allow the diatoms to grow out and use it as free "introduction" food for my algae eaters.  :Smile:

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## LegoMan

Quick update, replanted yesterday with Tropica MC from Fishy due to the condition of initial planted stems (Melting and slow transition even after 10 days no runners plus itchy fingers and butt). Also did a rearrangement after being advised from Fishy for inflow and outflow on the side with co2 diffuser on the other. On my previous arrangement, inflow and outflow facing each other and co2 diffuser beside inflow. Perhaps one of contributing factors for my high plant melting as water flow/circulation is no good.

Also, I was told on my WC routine due to my amazonia soil. What I've done is 1st week (50% WC every 2-3 days), 2nd week (50% every 4 days), 3rd week (weekly 30%). Fishy mentioned I should do WC every day for 1st week, 2 days for 2nd week and then weekly from 3rd week onwards.

Question now that I'm on my 3rd week with ammonia at 0.25ppm and appearance of diatoms, what should be the WC schedule now? I read for nano tank it should be every 4 days at 30%? 

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## Urban Aquaria

Yeah, for tanks with low initial plant density like in your setup, no choice have to do more water changes to flush out all the excess nutrients that are not used.

Based on time and parameters, your tank is still currently undergoing cycling, but the ammonia is at relatively low levels, so 20-30% water change a week should be sufficient at this point, the plants and growing beneficial bacteria should be able to help consume the remaining ammonia.

There are no fixed rules for water change frequency and amounts as each tank setup is different, but you can do additional water changes if you notice more algae taking over and that there still isn't enough plant density to use the extra nutrients.

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## LegoMan

Update this week. algae photosyn in progress..hahah

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## LegoMan

Quick update. Diatoms still going on. Hair algae seen on the tropica mc (not all...3-4 planlets) and white wriggly worms thin but not flat (2-3 worms) in my tank. Really frustrated now.

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## Urban Aquaria

> Quick update. Diatoms still going on. Hair algae seen on the tropica mc (not all...3-4 planlets) and white wriggly worms thin but not flat (2-3 worms) in my tank. Really frustrated now.


Its a normal process... once the tank is cycled and you can add algae eaters like shrimps and otos, those algae would be easily cleared by them.

The white worms are also normal, their population varies based on available food sources (ie. algae, detritus, dead plant material etc). Small fishes will snack on them.

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## LegoMan

Hi UA, thanks for your replies and advises so far. Have bought seachem flourish K as and will start dosing as I suspect my water too hard as well as mc leaves are yellowing..need to let them outgrow the algae I suppose? Now I am doing 20% WC every two days also to control the algae and like member everlance to dose k daily. For my tank size, just 4-5 drops is sufficient right?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Hi UA, thanks for your replies and advises so far. Have bought seachem flourish K as and will start dosing as I suspect my water too hard as well as mc leaves are yellowing..need to let them outgrow the algae I suppose? Now I am doing 20% WC every two days also to control the algae and like member everlance to dose k daily. For my tank size, just 4-5 drops is sufficient right?


The recommended listed dosage for Flourish Potassium is around 1ml per 25 liters 2-3 times a week... i assume your tank is around 10+ liters? So probably 0.5ml should be sufficient every 2 days for a start, can gradually dose more if you see the plants showing potassium deficiencies.

If you are using a dropper bottle, then it should be around 10 drops to get 0.5ml dosage (based on 20 drops to get 1ml, you'll have to test to confirm).

Do also consider dosing trace/micro nutrients too as those tend to be used up quickly in a planted tank. Can try Flourish Comprehensive.

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## LegoMan

Yup will do and thanks. Dose K and micros every two days.

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## Phillipians

For my 2ft and my nano 1ft cube, i do a weekly 40% water change. And because your plant density is still considered low, you will have to make do waiting a while for full cycling. Some people speed up process by adding mulm or preused filter media into their filters and also adding floating plants like duckweek or salvania natans or even float stem plants like hygrophilia difformis to suck up excess nutrients. After that can dispose of or transfer to another tank.

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## Gavan

is it a good idea to be dosing ferts so quickly? it's a relatively new tank with ADA right? 


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## Phillipians

As long as you do weekly water changes its fine to do dosing within few days of setup.

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## LegoMan

Yah...that's what I guess so. However, my tank is reaching end of its cycling soon. The hair algae is the culprit for killing my tropica plantlets. Sighhh..

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## Everlance

hair algae??? do you dose iron?

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## Urban Aquaria

> Yah...that's what I guess so. However, my tank is reaching end of its cycling soon. The hair algae is the culprit for killing my tropica plantlets. Sighhh..
> 
> DSC_0049.JPGDSC_0050.JPGDSC_0051.JPGDSC_0052.JPG


Thats still diatoms algae (the soft wispy form called synedra)... not hair algae yet, which are green and tough (abit like our human hair).  :Grin:

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## LegoMan

How to get rid?? Or wait it out like diatoms? They are like en wrapping themselves to the plantlets and suffocating them...the ones engulfed as seen are like half dead plants to me.

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## Urban Aquaria

> How to get rid?? Or wait it out like diatoms? They are like en wrapping themselves to the plantlets and suffocating them...the ones engulfed as seen are like half dead plants to me.


Usually they would gradually dissolve away on their own (and get replaced by other types of tougher algae) once the tank is cycled and stable. When shrimps are added into the tank, the shrimps will eat it up quickly. For your tank size, i'd guess 20 cherry shrimps should be enough for a start to help clear the algae.

Its common to see more algae engulfing the plants which are in poor health or melting, mainly because as the plant dies and rots, it releases nutrient back into the water column. The higher concentration of nutrients released around the melting plant tend to attract algae to grow there.

If the plants are really melting, its best to just manually remove them, cut away any healthy stems you see and replant them. That will help to reduce the excess nutrients from melting parts.

If possible, you should keep planting more monte carlo, currently its still quite sparse, adding more of it will increase plant mass to help soak up more nutrients and outcompete the algae. Alternatively, you could also plant some fast growing stem plants around (ie. water wisteria or water sprite), let them soak up the excess nutrients, then later you can remove them when the tank stabilizes.

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## Everlance

hi, apart from what bro ua suggested and reading from the previous page, you are doing wc of 20% every two days. maybe you can increase the amount of water to 60-70% since you do not have livestock in the tank. this will greatly reduce the algae. another thing you can do is to add abit of maybe excel or algaexit to suppress algae grow for the time being until you can add livestock. i didn't share my water change regime in my post. i do 80% water change everyday for the 1st week. 80% every two days for the 2nd week. 80% every 3 days for the 3rd week and 80% every 4 days for the 4th week. Lastly, 50% every week when livestock is added. no algae at all. only diatoms.

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## LegoMan

Hi Everlance and UA, appreciate your shares and advises. I guess I might be doing too little wc for my ada amazonia soil but nevertheless, I've asked a friend who has the master test kit with results showing tank cycled but will play safe till official two months later which is Jan 25th before I add any RCS in case of ammonia spike. For now, 2-3 otos might be a good bet as clean-up crew. Will also add in more mc as well and remove the melted plantlets or nip off those affected stems. My dkh is at 8 degrees hardness. Hope that with this, the plants will take over on the growing. I was starting to want to reduce my lighting period to 5 or even 4 hours but thinking EL had almost the same size tank so it couldn't be the case.
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## Everlance

nice... now you can add some otos and some cheap rcs. you will see the difference overnight.

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## LegoMan

If I put 3 otos and 20 rcs, would it be too much for my tank size?

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## Everlance

> If I put 3 otos and 20 rcs, would it be too much for my tank size?


should be ok. but you shouldn't introduce so many fish at one shot, especially when the tank is just cycled. add maybe 2 otos and 5 rcs first. then around 2 weeks later if everything looks fine, you can add more livestock. adding livestock now is only for dealing with the algae problems. add more when the tank stabilizes.

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## LegoMan

Ok added 3 otos yesterday. Hope they'll clear the algae in time for additional replant again.

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## ActiveBlast

My sae are dependent on food that I gave now they don't even bother to clean the glass that has brown spots.

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## mercur1al

> My sae are dependent on food that I gave now they don't even bother to clean the glass that has brown spots.


I believe you need Otos for that. When i had brown diatom algae addinga couple of Otos did the trick. SAEs are more for hair algae etc.

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## ActiveBlast

What I would do right now is that I would wipe it off the glass when I'm doing weekly water change

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## LegoMan

Overdue update...after last failed attempt to save the mc..I have replanted two pots of mc to make it dense. 

It is growing well and spreading and have recently added 10 RCS into the tank.

Also, I've changed the bubble counter, dropchecker and ceramic diffuser to the bazooka intense atomiser which works well.

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## LegoMan

Quick Pic of the day with RCS shrimps
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## LegoMan

Quick Pic of the day with RCS shrimps. 

Made a grave mistake of not turning down the CO2 as I thought the otos are surviving same. Now am left with 6/10 RCS over the span of two days. Previous CO2 is at 1 bps with dropchecker turning yellow green and have adjusted further due to the first death onwards to 1 bubble per 2 seconds but still same. So am adjusting to 1 bubble 4-5 secs to further monitor. Guess for nano tank, the CO2 really swings the pH as well as can see the shrimps are not active and just freezing when there is CO2.

Am also cutting down the CO2 kick in to 30 mins before light is on and 30 mins shut off before light is off. 
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## Dscheng

got bigger size pic?

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## LegoMan

Update is now I am left with 6 RCS out the 10 and seems that they are adapting well now that I've tuned down the CO2 ( 1 bubble 4 secs--nano tank---dropchecker dark green)significantly.

One have even molted nicely so hopefully all goes well. MC growth is slowing down as I noticed the bunches I planted expand in size initially but parts of the mc melted maybe due to adapting as newer, smaller leaves are seen as well as there is some hair algae here and there.

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## LegoMan

Sorry for the long lost updated post...wife is expected so my attention is on her. 

So now this is the current tank profile...added 10 yamatos to help clean up the BBA and GHA.
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## rohitsingh_81

Keep the CO2 running 24x7. Fluctuating CO2 levels are prime cause of algae.

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