# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Characins >  Cardinals hiding for more than 1 month

## winston77

Hi,

I have a situation here. My 50 pieces of cardinals are hiding behind the background plants for more than 1 month since their introduction into my 3ft tank. 20 pcs of rummynoses was introduced at the same time, yet they are already swimming in the foreground area.

Is this common? I thought that it takes at most 1 month for fishes to settle into their environment? Or are there some illness/disease with the cardinals?

My water conditions are as follows:
NO3 - 25ppm
PO4 - 1ppm
PH - 6
KH - 4
NH3/NH4 - 0.1/0.3ppm
NO2 - 2ppm

Any advise?

Winston

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## Justikanz

I assume 'RN's are rummynoses... i.e. please avoid such short forms...

Yes, its normal. The rummynoses (if they are), are active schoolers and swimmers. Cardinals, however, tend to like to hide. Give them a few days and you will see them swimming out more often, especially when you are near the tank as they will associate you with food...  :Smile:

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## winston77

Apologies for such abbreviation. Will avoid these in future post. Thank you for the amendments.

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## Justikanz

It's ok. Just that others might not be able to understand... Anyway, forgot to ask, are the cardinals coming out to eat?

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## winston77

Yes, when I feed them with bloodworms or sinking dried food, they will dashed out for it.

Somehow, they do not seems to be in favour for bloodworms. Is that a characteristic of cardinals?

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## Ssur

Hi,

I have about 20 cardinals in my tank, and they only hide in the background flora when they need the security and comfort of shade. When they get hungry, and see me nearby, they all, cardinals and the rest of flauna, will gather infront, swimming around as if signally for food. I use my tweezer to feed flake food, and they feed off it willingly.

I agree, they are not that keen on frozen bloodworms, i not sure if it's the brand of bloodworms or just bloodworms. But they do love live brine shrimp, almost a frenzy for those.

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## AquaObsession

From the cardinals I kept (most of them are kept by ssur now  :Smile: ), i can say they swim everywhere when they are not scared.

Check your water flow, maybe this is the reason they keep to the back. If you put your filter to blow the front, then do not expect those poor little fish to swim much against the current. Give us feedback on your waterflow(filtration)

Also, they tend not to like very very bright lights on all the time.

My cardinals, neons , rasboras feed well on bloodworms, but up to 1-2 worms per fish. They do not seem to overfed, and will let the excess be sunked to the ground. Different issues with flakes food, when fed in little quantity many times a day, they eat a lot more.

Feed them little amount several times a day, they will be happier(healthier) and they will follow hand movement.

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## winston77

AquaObsession got it right! Can I upz u? My rainbar output is facing the front of the tank. At times I can even see that the rummynose are having problem moving in the foreground. Any recommendation for rainbar position?

Currently running 2026 with external NA CO2 reactor on full flowrate.

My DIY 3FT T5HO is giving out some much light that even in darkness, it illuminate the entire hall. But since its just 2x39=78W in a 40Gallon tank, it makes up the 2wpg rule, which I don't think is too bright. Currently running on 8hrs photo period.

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## AquaObsession

how wide is the tank... 1.5 feet... i have the same filter, and i put it across the width... so far, doing very fine.... I put it on one side, near the bottom... checkk Aquaobsession holiday tank for visual..

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## Justikanz

Err... Keep on track, guys. For off track questions, please start a new thread for them... Thanks!

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## winston77

Oops. Back onto track.

I guess I need to lower the flowrate, and see how it goes for the cardinals. Lighting wise, I will keep to the existing 8hrs photoperiod.

I have just adjusted the flowrate, lets see how it goes for the next few days.

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## ranmasatome

can i ask..
you ONLY have Rummynoses and Cardinals in this tank ya?? NOTHING else?

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## winston77

Erm... 

2 x Emperor Tetra
2 x Ottos
1 x Yamato

I was told it was too populated on one end, and the others say its a nice amount to have... confused?!?!

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## eddyq

If cardinal tetras are hiding like in my case, then appreciate them from a distance.

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## winston77

1 week after lowering the output flowrate from the rainbar. Cardinals still hiding behind, however some are moving front now. 

Noted that they are more active whenever I get near them, perhaps waiting for me to feed them.

Does lighting plays a part in the "hiding"? I am running 2x39W T5HO now.

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## mickthefish

winston i would'nt worry about it, when the fish feel comfortable they will come out and shoal.
i would say light does have a part in them hiding, if the tank had more subdued lighting they would be coming out alot more, try some floating plants in your setup.
is the tank densely planted?
mick

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## winston77

> winston i would'nt worry about it, when the fish feel comfortable they will come out and shoal.
> i would say light does have a part in them hiding, if the tank had more subdued lighting they would be coming out alot more, try some floating plants in your setup.
> is the tank densely planted?
> mick


More than 50% of the tanks are with plants. Will look for some salvinia to cover the top.

The rummynoses are very active in the foreground, perhaps that is why the cardinals are pushed to the back. 50 cardinals vs 19 rummynoses?!?!

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## wks

> More than 50% of the tanks are with plants. Will look for some salvinia to cover the top.
> 
> The rummynoses are very active in the foreground, perhaps that is why the cardinals are pushed to the back. 50 cardinals vs 19 rummynoses?!?!


My experience with cardinals is that they prefer densely planted environment. maybe you can add some fast growing plants.

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## doppelbanddwarf

hey i think maybe you can try having more cardinals. when they are in a big shoal they are less afraid

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## winston77

> hey i think maybe you can try having more cardinals. when they are in a big shoal they are less afraid


50 cardinals. Isn't that a big shoal  :Shocked:

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## winston77

Update. Now the cardinals are starting to move forth. But...

What I did was remove all the background plants as they are infected with algae. So the cardinals had to move to the middle as those plants (mosses, echii-red diamonds) are algae-free though.

So it seems like problem not solved after all  :Confused:

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## zenscape

Your cardinals are eating and i think it is fine. 

Just want to share with you my experience. I bought 50 jumbo cardinals afew months back and had also encountered the same problem as yours. My situation was worst as the cardinals were not eating for a month plus and were just hovering at the rear top left side of the tank. I thought i was going to lose them but could not solve the problem. The tank was mature and water condition was fine. Then one day i realised and felt by bare hand that the temperature of the top half of the tank was slightly warmer than the bottom due to lighting sets. I was using a chiller, cold water/air condenses. After some thinking, i installed a small power pump to drive water flow to the top from bottom to even out the temp of the whole tank, depth wise. They have been swimming around and eating fine since then.  :Smug:  

Small thing like temperature different in the tank may cause stress to the fish.

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## hii

my cardinal only coming out in the morning when they saw me and when I feed all of them swim like hungry ghost eating the frozen worms.

after that they all start to hide under bogwood covered with windelov, java, willow and etc.... and most of the time the tank look empty except plants bubbling ..  :Smile:  

I think my next scaping will be rock concept with short foreground plant only than can see all the cardinal swim.

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## lEddyl

for my case, it's due to water current. switch from rainbar to lily pipe. now all swim in front. 30 in a 3ft tank.

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## winston77

> my cardinal only coming out in the morning when they saw me and when I feed all of them swim like hungry ghost eating the frozen worms.
> 
> after that they all start to hide under bogwood covered with windelov, java, willow and etc.... and most of the time the tank look empty except plants bubbling ..  
> 
> I think my next scaping will be rock concept with short foreground plant only than can see all the cardinal swim.


Oooh! That's a nasty move to get them expose ya!  :Laughing:

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## winston77

My cardinals are also the jumbo type from Gan 3 months back. 

My temperature in water is constantly maintain by an AC fan, and with T5HO light, I cannot even feel the heat from the tube.

But can feel that the 2x39W light is too strong though. Perhaps that is the reason for them to hide inbetween plants. Every little thing counts, and moving a step a time to observed their behaviour.

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## freezze

i been keeping cardinal for more than a year.. i still hardly see them swim around the tank.. thy prefer to hid under the plants.. even when i feed them they also stay hidden... until you walk away from the tank..

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## hii

my experience same like you. After light off period can see they start to swim out ... headache. :Knockout:  

Initially they show whole day during light off/on. (my photo for ADA submission show it)

After 1st caught of 1 neon tetra, they start to run everyway when I stand near.

After 2nd caught of 1 more neon tetra they start to hide under plants and only morning when feeding time than all swim out fighting for worm.

After 3rd caught of 1 extra neon tetra than every morning feeding time they rather stay hidden and even i sit far away from the tank to watch them eating but they still remain hidden. Only when i walk away for more than 10mins than saw the worm have gone.

What happen if I did again? think they stop eating or I may have to feed during light off only.

I think they scare cause I did caught 3 neon tetra before which I suspect got disease during feeding time, than from that moment they always hide from me.

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## winston77

Neons??? I thought we are focusing on cardinals?  :Laughing:  

I always mingle around with the plants and layout in the tank, initally they are scared, but after 10 mins, they are back to their usual style... swimming in the midground area.  :Embarassed:

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## freezze

> Neons??? I thought we are focusing on cardinals?  
> 
> I always mingle around with the plants and layout in the tank, initally they are scared, but after 10 mins, they are back to their usual style... swimming in the midground area.


good for you... maybe mine are just a pack of scary cat.. i mean fish

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## hii

> Neons??? I thought we are focusing on cardinals?  
> 
> I always mingle around with the plants and layout in the tank, initally they are scared, but after 10 mins, they are back to their usual style... swimming in the midground area.


I mixed 3 neons left over from previous tank into cardinal group.  :Smile:

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