# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Catfishes >  Savant's Hypancistrus sp. L333 Spawned!!!

## Savant

During one of my random spotchecks on the caves, I spotted something wriggling furiously behind the resident L333... 

As there are 1000s of dollars of hungry tank mates waiting out there, I decided to move the wrigglers into a fry trap...

Not sure when it happened as the fry seem to be rather big already...

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## genes

Wow...great shot...Congrats on the spawn!  :Well done:

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## weiquan

nice spawn! all hypan. sp babies kind of look identical don't they? 
you need to start feeding when they finish up their egg sacs, the yolk like tummy.

hope to know the head count soon.

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## Savant

One thing though, how do you guys remove the eggs from the caves? So far I put the entire cave into the breeder trap and scoop the father fish out if and when it tries to escape... but I fear doing so will tramatise the father fish...

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## iwishweallcouldwin

congrats! do keep us updated! super cute!!!!!

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## celticfish

You've already traumatized dad.
If he gets out remove him to the main tank.
This would be a good practice run for zebras!
Half the equation done.
Other half raising the fry successfully.

Sorry I wasn't on MSN last night give my congrats so...
*Congrats dewd!!!*  :Jump for joy:  :Jump for joy:  :Jump for joy: 


PS though I haven't bred these guys, from the yoke sac WRT zebra your looking at 5 more days or so.

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## Savant

I just counted them.... not an easy task when they run all over... I estimate that there are 16 of them... lets hope the numbers prevail...

Bro Ir, I removed the father fish to the main tank already... I am wondering if there is a better way to remove fry from caves or if tramatising dad is inevitable....

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## celticfish

Not really, just do whatever quick and get him back is what I do.
There's always a "shock factor".
My concept is to minimize the time/duration.
Otherwise, do what Gecko does or what Michael Jackson sings, "Just leave me alone..."  :Laughing:

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## Savant

The Gecko method is okay for a L46 only tank as L46s do not prey on their own kind... But I would be rather concerned to leave them alone in the 4ft, loads of meat eating L numbers that I believe would not hesitate to take a bite of baby...

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## johannes

congrats bro... it's always nice to see someones's pleco spawned! :Grin:

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## Gecko

Congrats! Welcome to the priviledged world of plecs breeders and experiencing first hand how a tiny wriggler can set your heart racing.

I think you did the right thing to net them up before they start foraging...Seems like you will need lots of aeration and standby food for them.

This is great for AQ, right after the L400's breeding...

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## Quixotic

Congratulations. Must be the cool rainy season. I think we will hear of a lot more of spawning accounts these days.

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## weiquan

Bro Calvin i did mention how i removed the babies in my L400 thread, maybe you could use it for reference.

anyway my good friend recently had a spawn too, im sure there will be another spawning thread posting really soon.

Bro johannas awaiting your adult L270 to spawn also  :Grin: 

cheers.

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## Savant

The early developmental stages of the fries are the most exciting... They virtually look different every day  :Smile: 

Chendol, going to check out your thread again in detail...

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## johannes

don't know when can i experience this... :Huh?:

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## illumnae

maybe tonight you go home you will find eggs  :Grin:

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## eeeeemo

this is the season to be jolly, fa la la la la~~
those who haven't done a water change for awhile.. do ONE big one now and see what happens.

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## iwishweallcouldwin

That's it folks. I can't take it anymore. Time to set up a pleco tank. It's all your fault!!!! :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

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## sadie

:Well done:  Superb job, congratulation. Any chance to see the whole tank setup (pic)?

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## Savant

> That's it folks. I can't take it anymore. Time to set up a pleco tank. It's all your fault!!!!


Wahahaha... do plan well though... 

I think you'd be spoilt for choice... What do you plan to keep?

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## Savant

> Superb job, congratulation. Any chance to see the whole tank setup (pic)?


Here you go...


Also... fresh pics from earlier...

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## sadie

So many hiding places for them  :Laughing:  Do the 2 outlets on the left of the tank create waves?

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## iwishweallcouldwin

I'm going to set up a tank for L134s!!!!! Heard that these guys stay small. But breeding them would be a separate issue haha, may not be as pro as you guys here. Can't stand the cuteness anymore, especially after genes' photo too. :Evil: 

But can i ask if all those rectangular slate-like caves are necessary? Or are they solely for breeding purposes? Which means to say that other types of caves, like those brown clay-like and rocky ones in your tank shot are not as good a spawning medium as compared to the slate-like caves? Because my pleco projects in the past all consists of driftwood or bogwood only.

And by the way, thanks for posting the pictures now to further poison me  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

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## celticfish

Headcount of the fry looks like 35 to 40?
That's a very decent size for a first spawn.
The female must be of a good size.
btw which cave did the spawn happen in?

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## Savant

Hmmm... The first time I counted 18ish, then 23ish, then 29ish... but never over 30... But I do hope there are 40ish  :Smile: 

Spawn happened in the left most cave... 

I think both the male and the females are of a rather good size. The L333s are the first plecos I bought.... I got them as adults from NKS (they lived in my L46 tank then, while I was waiting and looking for L46s...)

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## CacaManiac

congratulations dude... those look lovely..

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## celticfish

So when are you going to ask the Admin Mods to change your nick to "Plecomaniac"?  :Laughing: 
It can all start with just one fish and one tank, you know?  :Roll Eyes:

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## weiquan

Goosh!! a very very Good first SPAWN!! I must say the female is very very fertile. The babies look really cute. I think you should start planning where to put the babies in the coming months. I have set up a 1.5 feet tank just for my L400 juveniles. By the way you can start feeding the babies already, they are ready to eat.

cheers!

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## Savant

From my reading up... They will grow slowly and still be of a manageable size for a while and will remain in the trap... 

It will be a different story if I get more spawns.... have your L400 spawned a second time yet?

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## Gecko

Savant any chance of showing the adults' pictures?

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## Savant

I will see if I can get a shot once they come out... Haven't seen the male for a while since I removed the fries... Think hes a little spooked...

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## Savant

And then I spotted one of them hiding...

First time in days...

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## Savant

Help... they do not seem to be converting to solid food well...

a few have died today...

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## Savant

Help... they do not seem to be converting to solid food well...

So far I have tried cucumber slices as per my previous Bn spawn, carni tabs and bits of algae tablets....

a few have died today...

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## weiquan

bro calvin relax. i think you overfed. do not worry that they wont eat. Just feed one or two carivorus pellet a day and make sure the water inside the breeder trap is not polluted with uneaten food. these babies are very sensitive to polluted water. Remove the dead bodies as soon as possible and not let the body rot inside the small constrain space in the breeder trap. I don't think cucumber is a good idea it significantly reduces the water quality in the breeder trap when untouched and im not sure if they will eat such raw food.

My L400 babies are all alive and kicking on 1 piece of carnivours pellet a day for all 21 babies.

Don't put the air stone inside the breeder trap, this will stress the babies, rather put the air stone beside the breeder trap and let the water flow bring the bubbles into the tank if it is possible. Worked out fine for me.But that is if the water flow in your tank is strong and a lot of fine bubbles you don't even need an air stone. Actually i only used an air stone for the 1st few days.

My 2 cents, hope it helps.

cheers.
weiquan

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## Savant

Basically I understand that the conversion from egg sac to solid food stage is one of the more crucial state. I didnt have this problem with my Bn fries when I used cucumber though....

So I fed them with a variety (but small amounts) of different food to see what they will take up... To date more than half the fries have died from starvation.... 

Did anyone of you guys ever experience this and how did you resolve the issue?

I am trying bbs now as a last resort...

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## eeeeemo

hmm aren't L333s carnivorous. its not surprising they rejected your cucumbers..
is it possible that the cucumber has polluted the water enough to cause the fries not wanting to take up other food even though those are the ones they would have loved.

any experts can advise? i am afraid i will soon reach such a state too and would be left with my hands tied.

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## johannes

how about frozen brine shrimp?

soft and yet have the seafood smell?

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## soltari007

bro, just stick to carni pellets for now i think  :Wink:

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## Savant

I'm afraid thats bad advice bro.... If I had observed them and noticed that they are not eating any particular food at all, I will surely need to find something they will eat. 

As you may not be aware, starvation from failure to convert to solid food is a real concern. In any event, mortality fell after I fed bbs, I had only 2 die on me yesterday and 1 today... I am now down to 7... lets hope the 7 remain a hardy bunch...

Hope you guys learn something from my experience...

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## eeeeemo

how you feed BBS? baby brine shrimp floats around right?

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## johannes

try frozen brine shrimp bro... who knows... nice smell, they will try and also they are soft..

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## Savant

Its been a while since the last mortality and fry count has been kept constant at 6 pieces. 

Its a little worrying how they will only eat baby brine shrimp... but better than nothing I guess...

Here are some pics for your delight...

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## eeeeemo

have you tried hikari frozen daphnia??

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## StanChung

I love them! Congrats on getting to this size. You can try growing out the BBS a little.

They should start taking frozen blood worms a little later. Hikari frozen micro algae is also worth a shot but there are large pieces in them.

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## Savant

I did try frozen daphnia, cant tell if they do eat it...

tried my ocean nutrition pellets with garlic today... but failed to elicit any excitement... although most of my other fishes (plecos, cories and others) love it...

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## celticfish

Savant welcome to the second half of the problem!  :Exasperated: 

To make it easier on yourself.
You hatch and freeze the BBS.
These will then drop to the bottom when they thaw.

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## Savant

I think they started to eat solids... the single piece of hikari carni i put in tend to disappear in 24 hours... 

In the meantime... one of them died for no reason...

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## Cup

Carnivore fry such as hypancistrus should be kept in a holding tank with substrate to prevent bacterial buildup. I would presume this might be a major reason for said fry deaths. Although, arguably, young hypans may have a higher affinity for vegetable matter.

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## StanChung

Hi Cup, 
How thick a substrate do you think it should be and pebble size? 1-2mm?

Would an undergravel filter be a good idea to keep the substrate aerobic in your opinion?

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## eeeeemo

actually.. my zebras took carnivore pellet the moment the yolk was consumed on day 11...
there was no need for the tedious transition from live food then to pellets.

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## Savant

Well lucky you then... 

My BN did the same as well... but these guys are tough...

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## Savant

Probably still looks the same as the earlier pictures... but here are my 2 out of 4....

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## celticfish

Cool pictures!
The striping is getting defined.

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## Cup

> Hi Cup, 
> How thick a substrate do you think it should be and pebble size? 1-2mm?


That sounds good. Anything to distance the fry from the tray bottom. Vegetarian species seem to feed off this bacterial layer so it is less of a problem.

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## Savant

Parent fish are at it again... taking the chance to ask for an ID in case i got the L number wrong the first time...

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## celticfish

Once they start they will go on.
You mean the fish aren't L333?!?  :Confused:

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## Savant

I based my ID on this pic...

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog...?image_id=4761

Fishes are wilds from NKS last season... wonder if i can check with them if L333s was on their list...

Am quite sure they are L333s... but i get confused from time to time...

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## Savant

Something interesting happened...

The pair was huddled up in the third cave from the left for quite a while... then today they left the third cave and it was empty... no eggs...

I found the father fish in the second cave from the left.... and a large egg cluster...  :Jump for joy:  :Jump for joy:  :Jump for joy: 

No pics for now as I am going to avoid disturbing them for a bit... time to get another breeder trap...

Oh yah... Can anyone confirm that these are L333s?

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## iwishweallcouldwin

Wow, congrats, once you pop you can't stop! :Well done:

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## Savant

For those interested in L333s and breeding them, I would like to share my research... 

http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/view...er=asc&start=0

This thread shows a day by day development of the L333 fry... Since I would never at this stage risk removing the eggs until they have hatched and are relatively stable (e.g day 10), i could never do the day by day pictures  :Smile: 

Enjoy... (BTW today is egg day 5)

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## Savant

As I am on leave today and expect to be very busy at work the next few days, I decided that it was best that I took the eggs out into the breeder early rather than risk escapees eaten by their cousins...

Some overdue picsw

Yesterday.. (Egg day 5)





Earlier today...(Egg day 6, Fry day 1)





Father fish (Can anyone now confirm that khe is a L333?)



Leaving the father fish in the breeder trap for a few days but hoping to get an ID soon so as not to stress him out so much... So if you need any specific shots/close ups to help me ID, let me know soonest

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## johannes

it sure does look like L333... :Smile:

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## Savant

Thanks bro Johannes...

I needed to confirm as when I bought the parent fish last season from NKS, I note that they had placed a bunch of different plecos in the same tank... and I knew too little about plecos to ID them then...

Prices were sky high then as season had closed by then... I notice that theres no L333 in the current stock... wonder what happened?

I am looking to get 2-3 more pieces of real L333 to make up a potential new colony...

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## johannes

fish haven got... but price a bit steep... :Smile:

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## Savant

A small update... fishes converted to solid food successfully. I realised that they start eating even before the egg sac disappear completely... with the previous batch, I only fed after egg sac is more or less gone... think a few of them must have starved to death

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## Vandecruz

Very nice to hear that your fries are doing well,hope to see them cute and chubby in another 1-2 months time :Grin:

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## Savant

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## Gecko

I second the L333 id. Good job Sav!

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## barmby

the plecos are very desirable! good job!  :Smile:

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## Savant

Alas... I lost about 10 fry so far to the so called sudden death syndrome... The happy fries were eating happily at one moment and dropping like flies at the next moment..

Suspect those that died were pieces that didnt develope properly and had some difficulty eating solid foods, thus their death...

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## celticfish

I just realized your picture in post #63 Egg day 5 are already wrigglers.
What was the headcount for the second brood?

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## Savant

33... Which means I should have about 23 now...

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## barmby

I will feed them with cut tubifex worms  :Smile:

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## apistomaster

You definitely have L333 breeding.
If you care for the young and set up the breeding just as they do for L46 you should have good results.
I think it is a mistake to be removing the young in what seems to me, a very early stage of development.
The breeding fish will not harm their fry if left to leave their caves win they are ready. Allowing the fry to grow for a month in the spawning tank should mean they will triple their size in that time and are much sturdier and may endure being handled and transferred to the grow out tank.
I would only keep a breeding pair/trio in at least a 12 X 30 inch tank.
If you have a 2 male/4+ female set up at least a 40 gal breeder, 18 X36 inch base should be used.

Foods
I recommend earth worm sticks for the staple diet for the breeders, fry and juveniles. I would also feed live black worms, frozen blood worms.
The newly free swimming, post egg yolk stages of fry should do well on earth worm sticks and chilled live Artemia nauplii.
The earth worm sticks also contain enough Spirulina to help make them a balanced source of food.

I have bred and raised Sturisoma aureum, L134 Leopard Frog Peckoltia species and L260 Queen Arabesque in the manner described above.
I have 7 L333 adults requiring they be set up into 2 subgroups for breeding purposes and expect them to breed soon after. 
I think your losses will remain high until you allow them to stay in the spawning tank 4 weeks before moving them. Here are some of the L134 juveniles, http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=47036

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## Savant

Wow nice... I wish I had the luxury of having the space to set up species only breeding tanks...

Oh and Welcome to AQ!  :Smile:

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## Savant

Today is eggs day one... 

Means they will hatch by next tuesday and the fries should be relatively safe for removal by friday evening...

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## luenny

Cool shots. Both the L134 from apistomaster and L333 from Savant looks so nice. Darn! Will the temptation ever cease??

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## Savant

I am fast running out of tank space.... The fries from each batch resides in different breeder traps stuck at the side of the fish tank, after this batch, theres no more tank space to stick on breeder traps...

I wonder if I should mix the fry from batch 1 with batch 2 (little difference in size but they are a month apart in age), or sell off batch 1 (only 4 fries left, so its a big waste of space to keep them in a breeder trap)... or release them into the main tank (nah)..

I had a runaway (not sure from which batch) in the main tank... Its clear that its alot smaller than those kept isolated and specially fed with NLS...

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## 900801

Erm,just curious at what size do they breed.

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## Savant

At about close to 5 inches

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## Savant

Disaster... 

Sigh, my dad tried to help me clean the fry tank... not sure what he did but when I came home to a loss of over 20 fry...

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## Quixotic

Take it easy. Once they have started, I am confident that you will continue to have new broods every now and then.  :Smile:

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## apistomaster

> At about close to 5 inches


I know this is an older thread but I just read this. 5 inches is a big L333.
I have only seen one male L66 that was 5 inches long and it was a very large male.
My L333 are at least 4 years old and are 4 inches TL with maybe a male or two closer to 4-1/2 inches TL. It looks like they are producing about 40 fry per spawn. I leave the fry with the males. I did have one male loose a few larvae from his cave but most remained in the cave. I have had a few ejected larvae survive outside the cave and left on the floor of their breeding tank. 

The only time I have raised any plecos outside their spawning cave was when I accidentally poured some L134 larvae from their cave by picking the cave up and about 30 larvae fell out. I placed them in a 4-1/2 gal tank filled with water from their breeding tank and added an air stone to the larvae tank for circulation.

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