# Planted Tanks > Fertilisation and Algae >  What are the effective ways of getting rid of hair algae in shrimp tank

## es88k

Hello all,

I have read quite a few threads here about this hair algae here and most of them end up without a complete answer that I need.

I try to sum up what have I learn and hope to get a more conclude answer.

For a shrimp tank, the hair algae like to grow on the moss, I understand the ways of getting rid of them are :

a) Black out for 3 days : But I do not know what happen after that, the algae just gone without a trace or there will be the dead algae to remove from tank.

b) Increase the CO2 : I have some problem understand as I may not understand how algae is form, but to me, is the plant, is just a unwanted plant. More CO2 to me means more chance to do photosynthesis, how will it get rid of the algae?

C) Use of chemical : stright forward, but in a shrimp tank, try not to.

d) Add shrimps : Yamato or malayan shrimps. May not clear all but seems effective. The problem that comes into my mind is how to take them off after they help me clean the algae ? shrimp thank usually has a lot of hiding space (like mine). But I do not want to run after them to take them out as that might cause the change in water parameter due to the cat and mouse chase and the re-arrangement of the plants. Also read that they will distub the shrimplets if they do not have enough food, so is not wise to leave them in the same tank. Some say no problem, some say they saw it.

e) Add endlers : 2 conclusions I got, 1) most of them eat the algae, but some did not, depend on .... luck ? no idea at all. 2) Endlers may disturb the shrimplets as well causing no new generation of shrimps.

f) Take out the plant, put it in bleech, remove the algae manually.

Of all the above mentioned, maybe the last one is the best, but, but, but , but I really do not want to do that, I can give a dozen of excuse for that but the reason may be only 1, that is lazy. 

I really do not want to go into the discussion of the amount of effort = the degree of beauty in the tank here, I just wish to seek your experience advise on the above mentioned methods to see if I have any wrong understanding so that I can make a decision on which method to use or is there a better way to get rid of the hair algae

Thanks
EK

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## barmby

Hi EK,

Sad to hear about your plight. After reading. I can conclude. The shrimps are very important. 

Short term solution I suggest is manual removal, and other means of killing the algae through spraying of Excel at infected spot.

Since shrimps are priority. Keep plants that suit to this style. Go low tech. Forget about CO2. Slow down the light. And algae will take long time to break in.

Either way, high tech means CO2 with good lights with chiller.. You have to look at that from a plant perspective. We grow plants here. Everything else becomes secondary includes the shrimp.... Therefore: need KH/PH chart to determine that you have sufficient CO2 (20-30ppm) through out the lighting period. Once you get it. you slowly adjust your fertilization until the plant has progress.

Anyway, immediate solution is manual removal. whatever is there will be there unless you do it. or endler do it. or other algae eater do it.. the fact is algae can be growing too fast in which your algae cleaning crew cannot handle..

so... back to KH/PH chart..

It goes on and on ..

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## Shadow

I'm trying to answer your question one by one if possible  :Razz:  but please note it may not be 100% correct  :Opps: . Will try my best  :Grin: 




> a) Black out for 3 days : But I do not know what happen after that, the algae just gone without a trace or there will be the dead algae to remove from tank.


Black out will kill algae because algae do not have the ability to store energy. Thus without light they will die first and shrimps or other algae eater will finished them off. Some would say that algae will come back after black out because algae recover faster. After the black out plant will take time to recover.




> b) Increase the CO2 : I have some problem understand as I may not understand how algae is form, but to me, is the plant, is just a unwanted plant. More CO2 to me means more chance to do photosynthesis, how will it get rid of the algae?


Increase CO2 is not directly kill algae but it will prevent algae to grow further. If you dose enough fertilizer into your tank and algae still growing, it is most likely due do CO2 limited. Thus increasing CO2 will help. By increasing CO2 plant will grow healthier and hopefully out compete algae. You and other algae eater still need to do manual algae removal before it completely disappear.




> C) Use of chemical : stright forward, but in a shrimp tank, try not to.


No comment.




> d) Add shrimps : Yamato or malayan shrimps. May not clear all but seems effective. The problem that comes into my mind is how to take them off after they help me clean the algae ? shrimp thank usually has a lot of hiding space (like mine). But I do not want to run after them to take them out as that might cause the change in water parameter due to the cat and mouse chase and the re-arrangement of the plants. Also read that they will distub the shrimplets if they do not have enough food, so is not wise to leave them in the same tank. Some say no problem, some say they saw it.


Personally never have problem with them, but you can catch them using trap.




> e) Add endlers : 2 conclusions I got, 1) most of them eat the algae, but some did not, depend on .... luck ? no idea at all. 2) Endlers may disturb the shrimplets as well causing no new generation of shrimps.


Endlers most likely will eat your shrimplets




> f) Take out the plant, put it in bleech, remove the algae manually.


Only work in hardy plant like fern or Anubias. Also if not wash properly it might kill you shrimps.

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## beetroot

hello!

here's a thread that we can refer to:
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...985#post452985

as for catching the shrimps, the trap that Shadow mentioned is like this:
http://www.planetinverts.com/DIY_Shrimp_Trap.html

good luck in your fight! ::smt066:

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## vt_snowman87

have anyone tried *Neocaridina Heteropoda*, aka wild cherry.. they are also named algae shrimps and i remember my dad used to use this species of shrimps to control algae..

i am intending to add them in large amounts to my CRS tank to battle hair algae..

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## Shadow

I would say most of shrimp will help clean algae, it is just Yamato is strongger, more appetite and faster  :Laughing: .

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## vt_snowman87

> I would say most of shrimp will help clean algae, it is just Yamato is strongger, more appetite and faster .


but yamatos are BIG BULLYS, haha very undesirable for CRS especially, seen them snatching, picking, and disturbing any CRS in their way..

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## Shadow

yeah they will fight for food  :Laughing:

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## es88k

> Black out will kill algae because algae do not have the ability to store energy. Thus without light they will die first and shrimps or other algae eater will finished them off. Some would say that algae will come back after black out because algae recover faster. After the black out plant will take time to recover.


OK, Understand. Should worth a try, the only thing to watch out is to not to weaken other plants.




> Increase CO2 is not directly kill algae but it will prevent algae to grow further. If you dose enough fertilizer into your tank and algae still growing, it is most likely due do CO2 limited. Thus increasing CO2 will help. By increasing CO2 plant will grow healthier and hopefully out compete algae. You and other algae eater still need to do manual algae removal before it completely disappear.


I do not use any fert of any kind. Does this means that increase in CO2 may not be the solution in this case ?




> Personally never have problem with them, but you can catch them using trap.


Will refer to beetroot link




> Endlers most likely will eat your shrimplets


That is what I understand and worried as well.




> Only work in hardy plant like fern or Anubias. Also if not wash properly it might kill you shrimps.


Oh yes, Thanks for the reminder. I have 1 more excuse not to do it manually.  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing: 




> hello!
> 
> here's a thread that we can refer to:
> http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...985#post452985
> 
> as for catching the shrimps, the trap that Shadow mentioned is like this:
> http://www.planetinverts.com/DIY_Shrimp_Trap.html
> 
> good luck in your fight!


Thanks for both link. Some how I missed the first thread after using the search function. Will study hard.  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 




> yeah they will fight for food


Fighting for food is a good chance to get them (maybe :Huh?: ) but I worried that before they fight, they will fill themselves up with the shirmplets.

More suggestions are welcome 
Will spent some time on the link and work it out

Thank you
EK

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## es88k

> g) Let BGA thrive over BBA


Oh I really hope that the hair algae has somthing like that, the I will for sure use your method G  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing: 

EK

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## Shadow

No fert? how many watt is the light?

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## es88k

Lights are as above. 60 cm


My tank 60 X 30 X 36 cm

I would say that my light are not that strong. On for 8 hrs per day(1000hrs - 1200hrs & 1800hrs - 0000hrs) daily. CO2 at 0.2bps through difuser with surface skimmer (CO2 may not loss as much as they are block by the frogbits)

EK

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## Shadow

is that 2x24W or 3x24W or 4x24 watt?

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## es88k

2 X 24 W

only 2 tubes inside

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## ghim

Try increasing your CO2 to 1-2bps. If you are serious of making this a shrimp tank, then forget about the CO2. :Smile: 

Do a manual clean up by taking out the moss and treat them with chemical. Wash them clean. Then perform a 50% water change. Afterwhich you can put back the moss.

You will have to repeat these steps a few times. BBA will be very much controlled in time to come.

It took me months before the BBA in my tank became under-control.

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## Shadow

Even if yuo want to do siesta, you should turn on yiur light at keast 4 hours.

your CO2, 0.2bps is way too low but your drop checker color is yellow. did you use kH = 4 in the drop checker?

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## Philosophos

CO2 is the problem. You will see the amount of algae reduce in the aquarium as you turn it up. CO2 makes sure that the plants are out-competing the algae in terms of speed of growth; they'll choke them out for light and space. CO2 is the limiting nutrient; you've got enough of everything else, but the plants can't use it fast enough because of the lack of CO2. 

Give this a read. This is the official article/thread for EI, and it covers algae-CO2 relationship: http://www.barrreport.com/estimative...test-kits.html

-Philosophos

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## es88k

> Even if yuo want to do siesta, you should turn on yiur light at keast 4 hours.
> 
> your CO2, 0.2bps is way too low but your drop checker color is yellow. did you use kH = 4 in the drop checker?


My light and CO2 are working 8hrs a day.

hehehehee just to refresh you a little, take a glance at this:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=47135

But I did not use 4:4 drops as it is too concentrated and the color is too dark, cannot tell the difference. I used 2 drops of solution and the rest(more than 10 drops)are KH4. I think it still works, right?

By the way, Usually how often do u need to change the solution in the checker before it becomes not effective?

I add in the frogbits this week and slowly the check turn yellow, without them, is greenish, that is why I said the CO2 was trap by the frogbits and absob by the water.




> CO2 is the problem. You will see the amount of algae reduce in the aquarium as you turn it up. CO2 makes sure that the plants are out-competing the algae in terms of speed of growth; they'll choke them out for light and space. CO2 is the limiting nutrient; you've got enough of everything else, but the plants can't use it fast enough because of the lack of CO2. 
> 
> Give this a read. This is the official article/thread for EI, and it covers algae-CO2 relationship: http://www.barrreport.com/estimative...test-kits.html
> 
> -Philosophos


I am quite reluctant to increase the CO2 bubble rate, reason being that my KH and GH is very low, less than 1dgh. the buffer is not there, even with the 0.2bps, my Ph still drops 0.2-0.3 when the light and CO2 is turn On. If I do further increase in CO2, I worried that the high swing in the ph level will kill my shrimps.

I also need to recheck my drop checker instructon manual again, If I remember correctly, the chart says that blue is lack CO2, Green is OK while yellow (like mine) is too much....

EK

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## Shadow

it is interesting to know that you got yellow color with only 0.2bps with diffuser some more. Unless you inject CO2 24 hours.

If you are using ADA soil, you no need to worry about pH swing due to low kH. ADA soil have pH buffering capability.

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## es88k

I am using Magic soil. 8 hrs of light and CO2

EK

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## Philosophos

> I am quite reluctant to increase the CO2 bubble rate, reason being that my KH and GH is very low, less than 1dgh. the buffer is not there, even with the 0.2bps, my Ph still drops 0.2-0.3 when the light and CO2 is turn On. If I do further increase in CO2, I worried that the high swing in the ph level will kill my shrimps.
> 
> I also need to recheck my drop checker instructon manual again, If I remember correctly, the chart says that blue is lack CO2, Green is OK while yellow (like mine) is too much....
> 
> EK


Yellow means enough in many people's cases, or too little, even with a 4dKH solution let alone DI water as in instructions. Do not use aquarium water; it defeats the entire purpose. My pH drops .6 between just before the lights turn out , and just after they turn on (6.2-6. :Cool: . Yamato shrimp are doing fine in this, and my apistos spawn.

It's not the pH that stresses the fish, not over 12 hours to adapt with no changes in KH/GH or temp. pH was obsessed over in the past because it involves KH which is important and indicative of high sediment at times, which can involve having a high GH that includes magnesium if the water is from natural sources. In terms of fish biology it corresponds to acidosis, osmotic pressure and the shock of compensating for the parameters related to both.

It's really strange how ideas change about fish keeping. I started out being afraid of 20ppm of nitrates, a 2 degree temperature fluctuation and any phosphates. Now my worries include making sure the CO2 doesn't dip too low (green is too low), trying not to over-feed easy to culture fatty live foods, and my female A. hongsloi stressing its tank mates. Ideas about what matters in an aquarium really change. Look in to the stuff I'm talking about; don't trust what I have to say, but rather find out the principles behind what I talk about.

-Philosophos

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## es88k

Philosophos,

Thanks. Like I said, I need to confirm the color tonight and stuy your principles.

I did not use water from the tank, just the 4Dkh water and the test solution.

I am trying to have a CRS tank (fish wise, only otos), currently I am using Sakura to bench mark and they are much more hardy then the CRS. So, I try to follow and learn from different fourms and experienced people, then come to my own conclusion and try it out. There is no fixed rules for these ( I strongly believe, things that work for me may not work for you). But gathering more info and knowledge is also part of the fun of having this hobby.

Is just like human, when we were young, life is only one thing, that is to fill our tummy with milk. Then it comes different kind of food to eat, education, work, friends, hobby.....etc

the more we learn, the more trouble we create....hahahaha

EK

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## es88k

not to mention.....................WIFE!!!!! hahahahahaha

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## es88k

> Yellow means enough in many people's cases, or too little




Oh no..... seems that my checker is different from others... but dun care, as long as it works. I will take it as light green ?

EK

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## Philosophos

Looks like we're using the same drop checker. I'd recommend trying to get your hands on a different card for reading results; any low range pH test will do, it's almost always the same reagent. The card that comes with the drop checker reads a resolution of .4, other cards read by .2 quite often. Some people just forget the card, and eyeball the relative shade after a while of using it. Either way Bromothymol Blue is the reagent being used, and rather than its color maxing out at 6.4, it actually turns its most discernable yellow at about 6.0.

I find my oto's show CO2 stress faster than my shrimp. They may not die as fast, but looking at their gills is an early clue. They breath fast and turn a little more red a while before the CO2 gets high enough to make them hang around the surface. I can't say this observation is scientifically credible; just something I've noticed.

-Philosopho

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## es88k

Philiosophos,

Thanks. noted.

I think I need to check again on the solution in the checker. Usually is greenish blue(that expains my 0.2bps) when I don't have the frogbits. I introduced the frogbits 1 week ago and it turn to this lighter color. As my priority are the shrimps in the tank, the CO2 supply is just to help the plants a little when the lights are on and the difuser looks quite nice....hehe.

But once the lights are off and the CO2 are off, If you can see on the picture of my tank, on the right side , I have a air stone which pumps in bubble 15 mins after the photosynthesis. 

But for the pass 2 days, the color still remain at per what the pic shows, So I think I will need to change the solution and check again

Thanks
EK

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## es88k

Another words, I think I will only have not enough CO2 instead of over dose of CO2

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## Philosophos

If you're keeping shrimp, and can't put pump enough CO2, then what's happening differently in your aquarium compared to others who can do this? It might be worth trying to answer this question for your self, so that you can have both shrimp and nice plant growth without algae.

-Philosophos

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## es88k

still trying....learning....and testing

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## Shadow

you might want to try to take out your drop checker and leave it out site the tank for couples of hours, it should turn to blue. If not, then maybe your solution spoiled and need to be replace.

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## es88k

OK, Will check.... Thanks

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## es88k

Seems that the solution is not working....

Changed the dolution...

now is:Blue = not enough CO2, so will still stay at 0.2 for now. watch and see first before next action....

EK

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## Shadow

just remember than drop checker is not real time  :Razz:  maybe about 3 or 4 hours lack time. it take time for the CO2 form the tank enter the dropchecker camber and react with solution inside. However it still the cheapest and reliable though may not be the most accurate  :Opps:  (I mean it does not tell you the exact ppm)

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## es88k

12 hrs gone..... still blue.

Even with this 0.2bps, it still lower my PH value by 0.2 So I am quite sure that I will not increase the rate to create a PH swing.

EK

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## Philosophos

I now have A. Hongsloi fry living by my CO2 regulator, with daily .6pH swings. The eggs were laid 2 inches away. Do some reading on freshwater ecosystems; many places where fish live experience massive pH swings every day. It's more about osmotic pressure and alkalinity.

-Philosophos

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## mordrake

drop checker to me is just a rough guideline.
the most accurate will be looking at the reaction of your fauna to increased co2 injection rate. once start gasping for air at the surface, cut back to last level the fauna were comfortable at. do the increase slowly.

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## Shadow

> once start gasping for air at the surface, cut back to last level the fauna were comfortable at.


Some hobbyist might not be happy with this method, too cruel ...  :Laughing:

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## mordrake

> Some hobbyist might not be happy with this method, too cruel ...


that's why need to do increase slowly and be around to monitor.
have airstone aeration ready to go once gasping symptoms appear.

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## es88k

Weeks gone.....

Update a little on this issue:

!) The hair algae are still there, used the stone age method (my hands) to remove the algae, but they still keep coming back, and faster.

2) Bought 5 Yamato shrimps (wow, they are big). put them is a seperate container for 3 days without feeding before I introduce them in my tank. They seems happy and they did not go to the algae, instead they chase after my shrimplets. I have already tried to net all my shrimps to a seperate breeder bag, but for sure I am not able to catch them all, yet the yamato still can find them through all the thick moss to chase them out instead of going for the algae.

3) decide to catch as much shrimplets as I can to put them in the breeder bag and let the rest fight for their own. before long, the Yamato craw around the breeder bag to disturb my CRS.... OMG!!! please do your job....Yamato !!!!

4) Another 3 days pass.....The 5 Yamato happily enjoying their new home and so are the algae, visual checks shows that the hair algae are still there as before, totally no sign of reducing.

5) 1 week later, Maybe my CRS are too stress in the breeder bag (as I only have some frogbits for them as most of the moss has the algae). They are not eating well and color has faded. The yamato are still enjoying themselves on the green moss, seawead, moss ball instead of the algae. My algae are getting darker and thicker (stronger).

6) Yesterday, I finally decided to get all the 5 Yamato out of my tank and release all my CRS and Sakura back to their home. About 12 hours later, my CRS and Sakura color return to 80%

7) Will try black out next week.....

EK

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## beetroot

Rocket (or red nose) shrimps help too, but they may eat some of your other plants too  :Laughing:   :Opps: .

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## es88k

Eat my other plants?

No worries, I can re fill the plants as I have only different moss, seaweed. But I do have a 3 weeks old (tied myself)mini Pillia. 

Just want to confirm, they will not distub my shrimplets and cross breed with the CRS and Sakura, right ?

Any idea where to get them ?

EK

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## beetroot

err... how about you try the other methods first?  :Wink: 

later they find your moss tastier, and you find them a nuisance  :Laughing: .

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## es88k

unless they eat the moss instead of the algae.... if they eat both, still can accept.

Will try black out though....

EK

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