# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cichlids >  Apistogramma baenschi

## MarcJoshua

Hi, i'm intending to get a pair of these wonderful apistos, any idea how to sex these fish at an inch long? Have the males already started developing their elongated dorsal fins and ventral fins? And what about the females?

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## Wackytpt

For the size, you should be able to sex them.

Male tend to have a higher dorsal.

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks mate. Much appreciated. Getting them tomorrow.  :Smile:

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## Wackytpt

Which you getting from?

They are beautiful apisto. A lot of character in them. =)

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks mate. Much appreciated. Getting them tomorrow.  :Smile:

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## joopsg

Interesting......
Where???

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## MarcJoshua

NKS is having quite a few apistos being brought in. So i thought I'd order from them.

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## Wackytpt

I gotten from Malcolm before. Good stuff.

Where apisto are coming in tomorrow?

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## MarcJoshua

Not sure if its today or tmrw...

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## burpz

Hope you acquire your beautiful fishes bro, be sure to acclimatize them carefully before before putting them in your tank.  :Cool:

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## barmby

Where is soltari?! :P

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## joopsg

Must be at NKS choosing fish liao..

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## burpz

Hahaha... and why are you not there?  :Grin:

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## joopsg

Because i got no tanks now.
Anyone wish to donate some apistos and tanks to me?

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## burpz

Tanks can get from Monfort Secondary sale, 1ft cube quite affordable..  :Cool: 
Apisto... get from "Battalion 1 CO"  :Laughing:

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## marle

NKS lots of Inka! Saw Jura, Bits & Norbeti!

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## burpz

Nice! So... acquired anything new?  :Grin:

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## joopsg

Noberti??
Long Time no see them already..

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## MarcJoshua

Hello, just came home with 2 pairs of Inkas!  :Grin:  Thanks to bro SCOPE for helping me out with them. NKS has many many females!

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## marle

Apologies, on the tank i saw wrongly, not Jura but its Juru.

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## burpz

> Hello, just came home with 2 pairs of Inkas!  Thanks to bro SCOPE for helping me out with them. NKS has many many females!


Congrates bro! We await your pictures!  :Grin: 
Still got how many left at NKS?  :Razz:

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## barmby

Lets give this thread a boomz  :Smile:

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## MarcJoshua

Hmmm there are 4 tanks worth of apistos there. So you guys can take your picks. But the ones left are majority females. You might wanna head down fast before all the stocks are gone.

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## MarcJoshua

Hey guys, one of my pairs has come out of hiding and frolicked for a while. Here are some of the pics of the little buggers. Tried hard to get nice shots but out of 172 shots I only managed like 6 to 8 nice ones... Haha need a speedlite! 

Male



Female




She looks like she's in breeding dress... But maybe I'm just thinking too much. Haha.

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## SCOPE

nice pictures...so fast stable already

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## burpz

Nicely taken bro! May you get apistopoisoned more and more  :Laughing:

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## MarcJoshua

Haha Thanks guys!

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## joopsg

Marc, just place a mirror on the side then you can take photo easily.
Yup. Saw the female in breeding dress. Fast, right?
The male looking very potential.
Tempting!!!!
How many tanks need to prepare?
6 feet 2 tier rack with 1ft cubes?

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## wychay

Nice red. Any tankmates?

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## stormhawk

The baenschi are looking great Marc.  :Well done: 

Give them a few more days to settle in fully, then you should be able to see their full potential.

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## joopsg

> Hello, just came home with 2 pairs of Inkas!  Thanks to bro SCOPE for helping me out with them. NKS has many many females!


There may be sneaker males

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks again guys, will try to take more pics when these little inkas settle down more.

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## burpz

Glad you are estatic about apistos like I was when I got mine..  :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Hi guys just an update, added 2 more pieces of driftwood with plants tied to them and 5 neons, with a cory and an otto to each segment. Hope this will help with the males' aggression issues. I don't need him to kill his wifey. Lol!

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## burpz

Hehe.. Maybe it's just the mating dance?  :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Hmmm maybe, but do males almost shave their lover's tails off? Her tail is almost a stump!

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## Wackytpt

Too much fighting. Please create more hiding space for the female. if not, it will died of stress or being killed by the male.

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## MarcJoshua

Now got more hiding spots. Hopefully the male will contend with chasing the tetras and cory...

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## barmby

I think still quite young to breed. I have had older male, more stable and not over zealous for female. take care

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## soltari007

Haha thanks for the tipoff colin! But now no tankspace also  :Sad:  :Sad:  very nice fish btw it seems  :Very Happy:

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## MarcJoshua

Hello guys, small but picture intensive update. As previously said, have added more DW with plants and some tankmates!  :Laughing:  Here are 17 of the some 517 shots I made last night when I couldn't fall asleep.

FTS



Male Left Side Of Divider




Male Right Side Of Divider




Female Left Side Of Divider (Chewed Off Tail)





Female Right Side Of Divider



Couple Shots  :Grin:  (Left Side)


Right Side


Well, that's all for now folks! Please do comment, need to think up ways and means to improve their living conditions. Thanks to everyone who has given me advice till now! Cheers mates!

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## joopsg

Add more driftwood...

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## MarcJoshua

If I add more driftwood, I seriously doubt that I'll be able to see my fish. Besides, now the aggression levels seem to have simmered off a bit. Will see how things progress during the week.

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## Wackytpt

Then separate the female out. If not the male will kill it.

Your choice.

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## burpz

Maybe bring the male out for a while... as they say... Absence makes the heart grow fonder..  :Grin:

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## mobile2007

Went down to NKS to look at the baenschi too, but it was too difficult too locate any male among the whole brood of young baenschi. To make thing worst, the tank was located at the bottom level. In the end, didn't get any.  :Sad:

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## burpz

hahaha.... I get what you mean.. The 2 apisto tanks are at the bottom, in tea-like water... not easy to squat there long to sieve a handsome male out...  :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Very few males left. Hmmm just a silly question, but would removing the partition and maybe adding more females help? Also could I use a betta tank, the one that sticks on the tank side to help her recover?

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## burpz

> Very few males left. Hmmm just a silly question, but would removing the partition and maybe adding more females help? Also could I use a betta tank, the one that sticks on the tank side to help her recover?


Adding more females will spread the male's attention... For me (still a noob), I usually remove or quarantine the naughty one, in the case the male. By doing do, the female can get more comfortable in the current surroundings, thereby gaining some territory? Thereafter, when the male returns, he's no longer the king, and could take a little time to regain his dominance. Don't flame me, just my silly opinion.  :Opps:

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## MarcJoshua

Hmmm very interesting burpz. Shall take your advice into deep consideration. Thanks a lot mate!

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## burpz

No worries... I am still learning too...  :Angel:

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## SCOPE

Actually Baenschi can breed in a harem way or 1 male to 2-3 females....in fact more effective that way....and aggression is being distribute out well.

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## Wackytpt

Haha... the master has spoken. Haha...

Anyway Scope suggestion is an option that I also agree.

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks SCOPE, but I'm afraid that I do not have enough tank space for any more females especially with the lack of hiding places... After all its only a 2 foot tank.

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## SCOPE

> Thanks SCOPE, but I'm afraid that I do not have enough tank space for any more females especially with the lack of hiding places... After all its only a 2 foot tank.



i guess your 2ft tank still got space to pack in another 2-3 hiding places.....your case is not about space....about more hiding place or covers
You even can add in a few leaves of Katapang on the based...that create some more hiding places too

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## MarcJoshua

Interesting... Never thought of ketapang leaves... But expensive la. 4 more fish = $80

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## joopsg

> Interesting... Never thought of ketapang leaves... But expensive la. 4 more fish = $80


That depend how much time you are willing to spend on them.
But 4 fish may= 1 painful lesson too.

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## joopsg

> Went down to NKS to look at the baenschi too, but it was too difficult too locate any male among the whole brood of young baenschi. To make thing worst, the tank was located at the bottom level. In the end, didn't get any.


That is why I usually spent at least 4 hrs at the LFS when buying Apistogramma.
Mum always nagged.

Just bring along 1 small mirror to identify the male apistogramma.
Especially Baenschi, Very aggressive..

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## burpz

Taking lessons is always fun... you learn... you grow... the fishes grow... the fishes make babies...  :Grin:

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## joopsg

> If I add more driftwood, I seriously doubt that I'll be able to see my fish. Besides, now the aggression levels seem to have simmered off a bit. Will see how things progress during the week.


Then add more plants like java moss, java ferns.
Add tankmates can also.
but no shrimps.

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## burpz

> That is why I usually spent at least 4 hrs at the LFS when buying Apistogramma.
> Mum always nagged.
> 
> Just bring along 1 small mirror to identify the male apistogramma.
> Especially Baenschi, Very aggressive..


Just like why I don't bring my wife along to LFS too... But she drags me along when she goes shopping though...  :Knockout: 

Hmm... with the mirror, only the dominant male will flare?

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## SCOPE

> Hmm... with the mirror, only the dominant male will flare?


i guess both male and female will flare....male flare at its image...female same way...only to her own kind

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## barmby

1 feet per pair. The space is small. Female doesn't look good. I wish we all understand that

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## Wackytpt

1ft cube space is abit too small for apisto.

Ideal is 2ft size.

1ft is only suitable for smaller sized apisto.

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## MarcJoshua

I see, thanks for all the comments and advice guys, will try to work on what I have currently. Might even try to start up another spare tank I have. Just need to wait for next pay. LOL!

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## SCOPE

> I see, thanks for all the comments and advice guys, will try to work on what I have currently. Might even try to start up another spare tank I have. Just need to wait for next pay. LOL!


why not start a fish rack....those Ikea wooden racks...5 levels...anyway you will soon be there!

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## burpz

> why not start a fish rack....those Ikea wooden racks...5 levels...anyway you will soon be there!


Lol... 5 levels... how many per level? Get metal rack lah, can withstand more weight...  :Evil:

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## MarcJoshua

Man you guys sure know how to poison people! Hahaha!

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## MarcJoshua

UH oh, one of my females seem to be missing... I hope she's just hiding somewhere.

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## joopsg

Should be spawning.
The one on the right one?
If it is the left one, most likely it will jumped.
She is too stressed up by the male who ripped off her tail.

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## joopsg

> Lol... 5 levels... how many per level? Get metal rack lah, can withstand more weight...


If u keep small species like tri. and diplos,
1ft tank can keep 6 on 1 tier.
5 level = 30 tanks.

Our Battalion CO have his rack also.
You will be so surprised by his army.

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## burpz

> If u keep small species like tri. and diplos,
> 1ft tank can keep 6 on 1 tier.
> 5 level = 30 tanks.
> 
> Our Battalion CO have his rack also.
> You will be so surprised by his army.


That's intimidating....  :Evil:

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## MarcJoshua

Very intimidating actually. 30 tanks? My, that is very impressive as well. Well, maybe in the future when I have more space, time and cash. Haha. Oh, I found the other female, she was in a very tiny crevice under a piece of driftwood.

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## burpz

Glad you found her! How are they doing today?

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## MarcJoshua

A little better than yesterday I think.  :Smile:  I just hope my little boys stop harassing their GirlFriends so much!

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## burpz

Hahaha... Guess it's built into their DNA...  :Laughing:

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## MarcJoshua

Yup, by the way, how do I pump them up fast? I need them to bulk up. LOL They're too skinny.

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## joopsg

> Yup, by the way, how do I pump them up fast? I need them to bulk up. LOL They're too skinny.


Live food.
Live Bloodworm, Live Brine Shrimps but not live Tubifex.
Live Tubifex= sudden death for your Apistogramma

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## MarcJoshua

I had the impression that BWs and Tubis gave the same "sudden deaths" to apistos. By the way, anyone know where to get live brine shrimps in the east?

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## stormhawk

With skinny fish that have difficulty trying to swallow a whole bloodworm or brine shrimp, use live daphnia. 

Tubifex has risks, as with any other live/frozen/dried food. Some people swear by it, some others hate it. I personally don't use it right now, because I don't want the worms to tunnel into my substrate and die off in there... bad for the tank as a whole. So now I just stick with frozen BW, live brine shrimp and live daphnia as food for all my fish. They get the occasional tablet or random pellet food, like NLS etc. Funny thing is, most of my fish hate the NLS pellet that I give them.

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## MarcJoshua

My fish don't really take to the tetra bits I give them...

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## Wackytpt

Try NLS or ADA food. 

That what I used to feed my apisto. =)

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## MarcJoshua

Alrighty, btw, where can I get NLS pellets from?

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## burpz

> Alrighty, btw, where can I get NLS pellets from?


Your fav NKS? Else C328?

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## stormhawk

With NLS pellets, YMMV. So don't expect instant results from it. Perhaps the NLS Thera A+ might be a good choice. Anything with a good attractant included as part of the ingredients (like garlic) is worth a try.

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## MarcJoshua

Erm, what's YMMV?

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## iwishweallcouldwin

YMMV - Your mileage may vary.

I love your inka female at the right hand side! Strong coloration! Your male at the left hand side seems to have a lot of potential too! I would also advise you to remove your left side female if its possible. Very stressful for her.

Since we are on the topic of apisto feed, anyone has good reviews about frozen mysis shrimp? I know some people coat them with spirulina too. My apistos in the comm tank love NLS pellets and tetra pro colour, together with my tetras, cories, and whiptails. But the apistos in the breeding tanks would only take frozen/live food. In the absence of greedy tankmates (tetras) as an influence, it seems like the minute the apistos taste the forbidden fruit (frozen/live food), they refuse to take any pellets anymore. But when I throw them back into the comm tank, they seem to 'monkey see, monkey do' again. If not, they just keep popping the pellets into their mouths and spitting them out again when they are in their breeding tanks.

Hope I'm not OOT, but it's nice to see such an active discussion amongst apisto enthusiasts :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks bro, yeah its great to get all the advice and tip coming in! A very BIG thank you to all whom have helped me out so far! Oh, I've removed the partition, and all seems well. The left side female has actually started growing her tail back. She's not so stressed since her male counterpart has another male to contend with and it seems that he's gained alpha status. The other male tends to shy away and seek shelter when he's up and about cruising the place. I think I'll have to start up my other tank soon and shift the left side female and right side male down. Let me know what you guys think!  :Grin:

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## burpz

Hmmm... Good review on frozen mysis in what sense? My apisto do eat them... While I try to alternate frozen mysis and frozen bw.

If you can afford more space, be it financially or family members approval, giving more space is always good... Else, maybe can add a few more community fishes for distraction?

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## stormhawk

If you don't need 2 pairs of the same species, might as well sell off one to conserve space.  :Smile:

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## burpz

> If you don't need 2 pairs of the same species, might as well sell off one to conserve space.


Great option as well!  :Cool:

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## stormhawk

:Grin:  Or just use those net-type breeding traps to isolate the bashed up female. Give her time and she should probably recover as long as the water quality stays good.

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## burpz

Maybe it's just me, I feel the poor female is quite poor thing to be kept in "prison"... :Confused:

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## Wackytpt

Let me know if you are letting go the other pair.

I am very tempted to come back into this again.

Just setup a tank that is suitable for apisto or cories.

Haven't decided on the type of fishes. =)

Good to see that people are still interested in these fishes.

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## genes

Alamak, go to joe's "fish-shop" to choose your species lah. So many left to choose from. Also, the adult baenschi that he brought back couple of months back is of very good quality. See if its still there lor.

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## Wackytpt

Thanks for the head up Gene.

Will see how first. 

Cycling the tank.

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## marle

> Alamak, go to joe's "fish-shop" to choose your species lah. So many left to choose from. Also, the adult baenschi that he brought back couple of months back is of very good quality. See if its still there lor.


I never liked inkas till I saw those brought back by scope.

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## burpz

> I never liked inkas till I saw those brought back by scope.


Thereafter you brought them all home bro?  :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Guys, I highly doubt I'll be selling my fish any time soon. Hahah! I love watching them and since they're my very first apistos, well, they do hold some sentiment with me. Hence, I think I'll keep them till they're old and wrinkled.

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## burpz

Good for you bro! Guess your poison is not that deep yet...  :Smug:

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## SCOPE

> Guys, I highly doubt I'll be selling my fish any time soon. Hahah! I love watching them and since they're my very first apistos, well, they do hold some sentiment with me. Hence, I think I'll keep them till they're old and wrinkled.


By then......you may have fries so much ...till you cannot handle....haha!

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## MarcJoshua

Hmmm in that case, then I'll have to sell the fries. LOL!

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## burpz

But.. you would have developed sentiments for the fries too...  :Razz:

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## MarcJoshua

Hmmm probably, but in the end its more like the parents which I'll be more attached to. Besides, I used to breed bettas a long time ago and did successfully sell off some fries. So I'm not too worried about that issue. Besides, if I were to sell off 1 pair (not saying that I am), it will be the female with the chewed tail (regrowing well actually) and the less dominant male. Kinda doubtful that other bros here would want them.

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## MarcJoshua

Guys, i just transferred the dominant pair to my other tank. Now they're in hiding. Hopefully they'll breed soon.

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## burpz

> Guys, i just transferred the dominant pair to my other tank. Now they're in hiding. Hopefully they'll breed soon.


Nice! How many tanks you got?  :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Just 2, both 2 footers.  :Smile:  Might have to get another tank as a grow out tank should my apistos breed. Any recommendations as to the dimensions? Oh I just tried feeding my apistos adult live brine shrimp today, but they don't seem into it... If I want them to bulk up other than brine shrimp what else can I feed them which won't put them at risk of diseases?

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## stormhawk

Try BBS, live bloodworms or live Daphnia. I would rather you try feeding them with those Hikari UV-X frozen bloodworm first, and see their reaction. Live brine shrimp are eaten by all my fish though, and they love it.

All my Apistos get frozen BW and live brine shrimp as food. They dislike pellets so I stopped feeding them with those. They get the occasional live daphnia as a treat.

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## burpz

Hmm... Depends on what space you are comfortable with? A rack of 1' cubes?  :Grin:

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## MarcJoshua

Haha! A rack of 1 ft cubes... Interesting, but I think my parents will slaughter me! LOL! Hmmm saw both pairs eating the live BS today so I don't think that's a problem anymore. I feed them FBW from Hikari all the time, its just I dropped by c328 yesterday and decided to get them some live food.  :Smile:  Hmmm where can I get boon in the east?

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## stormhawk

I remember a farm at Pasir Ris, used to stock live daphnia but I forgot the name of the place though. They never really advertised anyway. I think there's a thread here, or over at Arofanatics that has the info you require.

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks bro! BTW, my apistos have started eating the Live BS! Too bad the BS are all about dead now. LOL.

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## MarcJoshua

Small update mates, the female of the dominant pair has become rather busy with building up a mound in front of her coconut cave. She was last spotted in the open with her mate yesterday but I have yet to see her come out today. Do you guys think there'll be fries soon?

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## genes

> Thanks bro! BTW, my apistos have started eating the Live BS! Too bad the BS are all about dead now. LOL.


You can keep them alive for about a week to 2. You need to change fresh salt water daily or at least once every 2 days. Also add an air stone into the container where you house them.

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## genes

sounds like a brood coming up! It's easy to get an apisto to spawn but the more difficult part is to get the eggs to hatch. Sometimes most of the eggs are infertile. Also, males can be very intimidating to her female so the females end up eating her eggs. And of course, events that might spook her could also see her eating her own eggs especially if it's their first brood. Once the pair gets very acustom to their current environment. You should see less of such problems.

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## MarcJoshua

Just bought daphnia from pasir ris farmway 3. Old man shop next to the fishing ponds. Hope this helps all the bros here.

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## SCOPE

> Just bought daphnia from pasir ris farmway 3. Old man shop next to the fishing ponds. Hope this helps all the bros here.


yes, that is where you can buy lots of daphnia for $1.

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## SCOPE

> Small update mates, the female of the dominant pair has become rather busy with building up a mound in front of her coconut cave. She was last spotted in the open with her mate yesterday but I have yet to see her come out today. Do you guys think there'll be fries soon?


sound like very soon....hear your good news soon

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## genes

> Just bought daphnia from pasir ris farmway 3. Old man shop next to the fishing ponds. Hope this helps all the bros here.


Daphnia stinks like $%#$ and last shorter then BS.

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## Wackytpt

Agree with you on that.

Haha.

I still prefer to feed apisto Live BBS.

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## burpz

> Daphnia stinks like $%#$ and last shorter then BS.



Thought they will multiply in your tank?  :Confused:

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## MarcJoshua

Yeah, I hope that happens. Cos I won't be home till friday, in camp la. Hence should the daphnia multiply, if I have fries before I come home, they'll at least have something to munch on.

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## genes

You think so? They probably end up as food before they are able to multiply.

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## burpz

Throw in a few bags  :Very Happy:

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## genes

And you'll end up with stinking water and ammonia spike that kills all fishes in the tank. 

I would recommend ADA AP1 gold. These are very powdery food and i have no problem feeding fries with that. Also, as a staple food, they are easy to ask your family members to feed.

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## MarcJoshua

righto, thanks genes. where can i get the food from? any recommended LFS? Oh and recently, the female has been chasing the male away from her coconut cave. haha its funny to see the male who used to be the bully now get bullied. my other male has established dominance in my other tank but appears not to be accepting the female as a mate.

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## Wackytpt

For ADA food you can try getting them at c328 or Biotope.

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## stormhawk

> Throw in a few bags


Overfeeding or dumping in more Daphnia is not useful in smaller tanks. The Daphnia can stay alive in a tank but not in big concentrations.

They cannot easily multiply in a fish tank since the fish will eat everything. You cannot culture them easily either, so buying them regularly is the only way to go. Note, a 50 cent bag full of live Daphnia, is enough for most people.

@genes:

They are freshwater inverts which can stay alive in a tank indefinitely provided they have microscopic food to feed on (green water etc.), as compared to live BBS or adult BS that will die in freshwater in roughly 8 hours or so.

I never bothered to change the water in my brine shrimp container since the adults can live in there for close to a week as long as I remove all the dead ones. 

ADA AP-1 is probably just APR or what the Americans call Artificial Plankton-Rotifer powder. It is good for fry though, since the tiny particles have some sort of attractant. I am still waiting for Cyclop-Eeze to re-appear since it is similar.

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## burpz

Roger that bro. Always feed with a limit, only what they can normally finish.

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## stormhawk

Yup. Same applies with those commercially available fry food. I prefer pre-mixing the food in a container with some water, then using a dropper or turkey baster to suck up the food and just inject into the water in small amounts at a time.

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## burpz

Haha... right... I always use a large syringe for frozen mysis/BW...

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## stormhawk

That works too. I find turkey baster/bulb syringe more easier to work with than those plunger-type syringe.

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## doppelbanddwarf

I've had internal bacteria problems in apistos when I feed daphnia. Not sure whether it is the water that comes with daphnia but I dare not take the risk now.

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## stormhawk

It is probably from the water. When feeding Daphnia, you should always sieve them, like how you would with BBS. Sieve them, then rinse under tap water, before feeding. It tends to remove most of the bugs.

The water they come with is fairly foul to begin with. This is because most of these Daphnia are cultured in duck ponds, where they feed off bacteria from duck droppings and algae in the ponds.

In any case, any type of food has their pros and cons. Even dried food can cause problems, if it was fouled by frequent exposure to the air.

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## genes

Cyclop eeze floats and not very suitable for the bottom dwelling apistos. I still have the powdery version as well as the flake versions. And they definately do not make the apistos any more redder or colorful too after prolonged feeding.

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## stormhawk

They don't sink in the water column genes? I thought you could mix them in water to create a "slurry" of sorts before feeding.

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## burpz

I used to have the freeze-dried version. It's really not easy to make it sink...

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## stormhawk

Guess they don't absorb water as fast as I expected. No new stock at C328 either, since aunty said the agent doesn't have stock anymore, so I can't try it.

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## MarcJoshua

Guys, my female with the chewed off tail has recently regrown most of it and has turned bright yellow. She actually swims with the male in her tank now.  :Grin:

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## Wackytpt

She is in breeding dress now. =)

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## burpz

Great to hear that!!

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## marle

good good, means they have bonded

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## SCOPE

look like she is breeding real soon

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## MarcJoshua

GREAT NEWS CHAPS! My dominant pair are now parents to 30-40 babies. Just fed them liquifry. Gonna get either bbs or boon tmrw! YAY!

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## mobile2007

congrats. now we have new supply of inka.  :Smile:

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## SCOPE

congrates bro.....on your inka breeding....hope to hear more of the fries growth

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## burpz

Congrats bro!!  :Laughing:

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## iwishweallcouldwin

Congrats! Do keep us updated about your fries! You must be elated. Well done :Smile:

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## MarcJoshua

I am as happy as can be. Btw, I think I was a little too over zealous in my count of fry, looks more like 20+ instead of the previous number. Hehe. Was so amazed when she brought her brood out for a little swimming lesson just now. Mommy is very protective and Daddy seems to be doing his part by getting out of the way and sticking to his half of the tank.  :Grin:

----------


## SCOPE

> I am as happy as can be. Btw, I think I was a little too over zealous in my count of fry, looks more like 20+ instead of the previous number. Hehe. Was so amazed when she brought her brood out for a little swimming lesson just now. Mommy is very protective and Daddy seems to be doing his part by getting out of the way and sticking to his half of the tank.


i am happy for you....i guess that waiting cause you sleepless nights....

----------


## MarcJoshua

Yes it certainly did. And the worst part was that I was stuck in camp! Wah almost AWOL! Hahahah

----------


## stormhawk

Congratulations Marc. All the efforts finally paid off.  :Grin:

----------


## marle

Great Effort Marc!!!  :Well done:

----------


## Wackytpt

Try not to keep looking at them as you might stressed the parents.

----------


## burpz

And don't shift anything in the tank for now too...

----------


## cory

Bro burpz, speaking from experience?  :Mad: 
how's your apisto red pair? Any spawning activity?

----------


## burpz

Ya lor... I moved some stuff and the eggs are gone. Moved the agasizii reds to office and they are getting used to the new environment I guess. Other projects are at home.  :Smile:

----------


## MarcJoshua

Hmm I don't see a need to move anything in the tank. So I just sometimes prone in front of my tank and watch the female be a good mommy. hahah

----------


## SCOPE

It is a joy to see your fries growing slowly to adulthood....enjoy

----------


## barmby

Congratulations... sell me lei..  :Smile:

----------


## MarcJoshua

@ barmby, lets not get too excited. Must see if the batch will even make it to maturity first. It is afterall my first time breeding them.  :Smile:

----------


## SCOPE

> @ barmby, lets not get too excited. Must see if the batch will even make it to maturity first. It is afterall my first time breeding them.


no worry...with so many experts here to guide you...i guess you may succeed. Anyway, you are the only guy so lucky to get the NKS INCA to breed while so many others ones
all died.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Thanks for the vote of confidence bro scope! Now feeding my babies ang boon. Hope they will respond well to live food.  :Smile:

----------


## joopsg

Take note that it is very hard to train them to eat pellets or flakes once they feed on live feed.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Hmmm even as fry? I think I'll slowly have to train them as they grow up.

----------


## SCOPE

> Hmmm even as fry? I think I'll slowly have to train them as they grow up.


You can just feed them pellets from now....the mother can just bite into smaller pieces and split at its fries to eat....

----------


## MarcJoshua

But here's the problem, the mum doesn't eat pellets. She only takes frozen bloodworms currently.

----------


## stormhawk

Your other option is to crush the pellets, or find an artificial powder-like baby food like the ADA AP-1, which some of the bros are using. There are other options other than AP-1 but some are unavailable here in Singapore. 

Right now I'm trying out this "Instant Brine Shrimp" from Ocean Nutrition:
http://www.aboutfishonline.com/articles/fryfood.html

A small amount is enough to feed all my fish at once.  :Grin: 

I used to crush my NLS pellets into a powdery form just to feed the fry, but they ignored it so I stopped using that method. Some people feed their fry with Sera Micron, but I feel it's more suitable for livebearer or larger sized fry.

Dropped by at C328 earlier as well, and I came across this baby fish food from Hikari called Hikari First Bites. Not sure how good it is but maybe it's worth a try since it's probably in powder form. 

As for the mother baenschi, you should try and feed her with other foods and not just frozen BW. A diet based only on frozen bloodworm is not really good for them. Too much protein from the worm diet can make them fat and sick easily later on, so a mix of foods is better.

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## MarcJoshua

Thanks Stormhawk, I'll just have to try it out when I have more free time. As it is now, I don't even have time to see my fries grow as I am stuck in camp. Hence my family members are doing all the feeding for me. I might have to give instructions to my parents as to how to alter their diet. Maybe the pair does eat my tetrabits just that I've never witnessed it before.

----------


## burpz

Can't bring the tank to camp?  :Angel:

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## MarcJoshua

Haha, I would love that. But unfortunately, I wouldn't be around on weekends hence its an even greater risk. Besides, there are rules about leaving power points on for more than 24 hours in camps. Potential fire hazard.

----------


## burpz

I see.. Recalled during my NS days, my CSM had huge tanks in the company's clubroom.

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## MarcJoshua

That one different la bro. CSM got more power man. I'm just a lowly LCP. Anyway, gonna run the idea of a rack of tanks by my parents and see what they think. Not hoping for much but everything is worth a try aye?

----------


## burpz

Have to find a apisto loving CSM then...  :Grin: 
good luck on your attempt!  :Wink:

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## cory

CSM --> Company Shortest Man  :Grin: 

Poison him into apisto  :Smile:

----------


## joopsg

> Have to find a apisto loving CSM then... 
> good luck on your attempt!


Then your coy duty will be feeding the fish, changing water, scrub the tanks.

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## burpz

Haha... Right! But only a dedicated few get to do that... With "better" treatment too...  :Laughing:

----------


## joopsg

> Haha... Right! But only a dedicated few get to do that... With "better" treatment too...


But prepared to sign extra when the fish dies..

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## burpz

Lower end fish die... means off pass/nights off to buy fish!  :Blah:

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## MarcJoshua

Hahahah. Erm I happen to be the company's shortest man. LOL!  :Laughing:

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## cory

Ask him to grant you nights-off then bring him go fish sighting  :Smile:

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## joopsg

nights off?
Off day or leave will be better..

----------


## MarcJoshua

I sometimes go out with my PS but he isn't into apistos. He says they look too fierce.

----------


## Fingerling

Any picture updates to how your apistos are doing?  :Smile:

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## joopsg

> I sometimes go out with my PS but he isn't into apistos. He says they look too fierce.


He hasn't found the one that caught his eyes.
Once he saw it, it will just simply pump in the poison into his mind and 
his heart. :Cool:

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## MarcJoshua

No pics yet. Been a little too busy. Will try this weekend. Oh btw, henry, you might know my ssg. His name is francis tan.

----------


## mobile2007

wait got stand by fish tank how?  :Grin:

----------


## Luc Tango

hmmm, anyone ever thought of culturing daphnia in the main tank itself? sort of like a breeder trap or something. where smaller daphnia can exit the breeding trap. might be able to solve the problems when we are overseas or in this case, in camp.

----------


## stormhawk

Possible, but the breeding trap would require modification with a smaller grid size mesh over the slits. Maybe the net-type breeding trap versions might be workable.

----------


## joopsg

> No pics yet. Been a little too busy. Will try this weekend. Oh btw, henry, you might know my ssg. His name is francis tan.


Haha..
Are we talking about the same Francis Tan i know?
My ops spec when i was in service? 
Haha..
Such a small world.
He himself is so agressive...

----------


## Luc Tango

i am actually trying out culturing daphnia in one of my tanks now. a small plastic bottle cut at the top, holes poked all around (for water flow and daphnia to get out, a clump of moss. this is hung over the side with a hook. will see if this works.  :Smile: 

Edit: Sorry MarcJoshua, i know this is not related to your topic. mods please move if you deem necessary.  :Razz:

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## MarcJoshua

@ Luc, No no, please don't remove it. Its nice to learn from interesting ideas. Thanks Luc. 
@ joopsg, yeah francis tan peak boon. lol. he is rather aggressive.

Hmmm rather sad news guys, I now only count 6-8 fries left in my breeding tank. Wonder if papa has been snacking. Oh well, I guess its normal for a first spawn. Will update accordingly.

----------


## Luc Tango

hehe, weirdly the "culture" in the "breeding net" is still surviving.. but the culture in a tank is not. most of the rasboras i have are camping right beside the net awaiting their food.  :Smile: 

and yucks.. daphnia does stink!

----------


## SCOPE

> @ Luc, No no, please don't remove it. Its nice to learn from interesting ideas. Thanks Luc. 
> @ joopsg, yeah francis tan peak boon. lol. he is rather aggressive.
> 
> Hmmm rather sad news guys, I now only count 6-8 fries left in my breeding tank. Wonder if papa has been snacking. Oh well, I guess its normal for a first spawn. Will update accordingly.


No worry, Next Spawn is just another 20+ days.....soon they will become better parents...

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## MarcJoshua

Haha thanks Joe. Let just hope the 4 remaining fry will last.

----------


## stormhawk

> and yucks.. daphnia does stink!


Indeed the water with which they come does stink, because it's from a duck pond. So what you are smelling is essentially duck poop.  :Laughing: 

The ones surviving in your breeding net are feeding from bacteria and other microscopic food particles in the water column. My Galaxies are feeding like crazy on them, not just the fry. They don't make much of a meal for adult Apistos though. Siphon out the 4 remaining fry if you can. They are easier to raise in a separate covered tank.

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## Luc Tango

yucky though, might be the last time i'm buying daphnia. lol.

Marc, remove the remaining fries and pass them to me. I will dump them in the daphnia net. haha. just kidding!  :Razz:

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## MarcJoshua

Haha, have no time or space left already. But even if I lose this spawn, I'm kinda okay with it as I didn't do much to get them to spawn. Oh well, I'll just have to pray for better luck with the next spawn.  :Smile:

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## SCOPE

> Haha, have no time or space left already. But even if I lose this spawn, I'm kinda okay with it as I didn't do much to get them to spawn. Oh well, I'll just have to pray for better luck with the next spawn.


Well....just another 20+ days for another good news from you....

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## MarcJoshua

Haha, already I saw the pair displaying to each other before I left the house last night. So hopefully, I will have a new spawn soon. As it is now, I'm left with just 2 fry.

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## marle

i got a female inka from NKS, and a male from scope.

Its been weeks and they don't seem to bond. Wonder is it because of their locality?

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## joopsg

Wow, Foreign match- making..
Need time to communicate man.
Relax once they speak the same language, breed like rabbits.

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## iwishweallcouldwin

> Wow, Foreign match- making..
> Need time to communicate man.
> Relax once they speak the same language, breed like rabbits.



haha! super funny. actually its an interesting match! can't wait to see the results.

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## marle

the male is always chasing the female, the female looks abit scared. Think its because the male is slightly bigger in proportion to the female.

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## SCOPE

one method i use before is to put divider between the male and female....fed up the female ...but let them see each other daily...release them together once ready for breeding. What i guess in Marle's case is the male is really to mate, but the female is not ready...that is why such chasing around. Once female is ready...it will be the opposite way...female chasing the male

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## joopsg

> one method i use before is to put divider between the male and female....fed up the female ...but let them see each other daily...release them together once ready for breeding. What i guess in Marle's case is the male is really to mate, but the female is not ready...that is why such chasing around. Once female is ready...it will be the opposite way...female chasing the male


Yeah man.
She is still shy.
Later then she will be too hot to be handled.

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## marle

> Yeah man.
> She is still shy.
> Later then she will be too hot to be handled.


Hmm, previously, before this male, i had a male from NKS, and at that time, the female was yellow and chasing the male around(this male was smaller in size). The female ended up killing it as i had no spare tanks at that point of time and i put them into a smaller container, my mistake.

Think this newer male, is currently too hot to handle.  :Idea:

----------


## SCOPE

> Hmm, previously, before this male, i had a male from NKS, and at that time, the female was yellow and chasing the male around(this male was smaller in size). The female ended up killing it as i had no spare tanks at that point of time and i put them into a smaller container, my mistake.
> 
> Think this newer male, is currently too hot to handle.


how about giving him another wife to cool down his heat?

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## marle

> how about giving him another wife to cool down his heat?


can have two wives? tank only 1.2ft!!! the 2ft tank is for other projects!

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## SCOPE

> can have two wives? tank only 1.2ft!!! the 2ft tank is for other projects!


if 2ft...i guess can try the 1 Male 2 females breeding. 1.2ft...not possible....too small space

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## joopsg

Insert the divider

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## MarcJoshua

The pair just needs some bonding time. Now both my females are in breeding dress. The female with the chewed out tail has actually regrown the tail very well and now she's chasing her man around and displaying to him.

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## marle

> Insert the divider


2ft for other projects.. hehe.. i tried putting in a mirror inside. The situation changed abit. Female coloured up today.

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## MarcJoshua

Hey congrats mate. Hope you'll have awesome news for us here at aq soon.

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## marle

> Hey congrats mate. Hope you'll have awesome news for us here at aq soon.


I think it might be due to the mirror and the flaring, thus the colour. No nest built at the moment! The chasing is still going on and on but surprisingly no visible torn fins for the female.


Female saying help.




Male Inka (Young)

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## SCOPE

Male Inka (Young)

[/QUOTE]

Very swee columbia var INKA you have! Got potential to grow super size and curly dosel...

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## marle

thanks to you scope!

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## MarcJoshua

Very very nice specimen bro marle. I have been procrastinating about taking photos too much. I should take more photos to update you guys. Haha.

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## stormhawk

As Nike says, Just Do It. I take a picture of my fry every day, when they decide to appear towards the front. Just a log of sorts for my own personal use. You can probably do the same if you're bored enough.  :Laughing:

----------


## marle

you should update us with your pictures too stormhawk! 

Anyway, was wondering if ADA Malaya substrate willl be good for apistos due to their ability to bring the pH even lower than Africana

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## stormhawk

Too many of the same will be boring. The fry aren't that much bigger. Maybe growth spurt next week if I keep feeding them live daphnia. Sharing pictures once a week is enough I think. The mother seldom lets her fry congregate at the front of their partition, they're always hiding amongst the Java Fern leaves.  :Laughing: 

No idea on ADA Malaya's ability. I haven't seen it at C328, and I don't know anyone personally, who is using it. Looks good though. JBL has a new substrate called Manado. I wonder if it's as good as Africana in bringing down the pH.

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## marle

> Too many of the same will be boring. The fry aren't that much bigger. Maybe growth spurt next week if I keep feeding them live daphnia. Sharing pictures once a week is enough I think. The mother seldom lets her fry congregate at the front of their partition, they're always hiding amongst the Java Fern leaves. 
> 
> No idea on ADA Malaya's ability. I haven't seen it at C328, and I don't know anyone personally, who is using it. Looks good though. JBL has a new substrate called Manado. I wonder if it's as good as Africana in bringing down the pH.


NA used to stock Malaya up. Heard Malaya has the ability to bring pH to 4.5-5, which provides the optimum condition for certain species.

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## MarcJoshua

Woah that's really very low. Anyone concerned about acid burns?

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## joopsg

Shouldn't be a worry.
Ph is lower slowly, not sharply.
Some fishes in fact live in water lower ph then this.

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## stormhawk

Rather than worry about the fish, better to worry about the effect of the acidity of the water on the silicone seal.  :Opps: 

Thanks for the info marle. Guess Malaya is just as good as Africana for lowering pH.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Haha, yes true, I cannot imagine what would happen if the silicone seal corrodes away.

----------


## marle

I think inkas know how to recognize people.

----------


## stormhawk

By rushing out whenever your hand is above the tank during feeding time?  :Laughing:

----------


## MarcJoshua

Hmmm my inka in my comm tank always comes out to greet whoever is viewing the tank. But my breeding pair seem to avoid being seen.

----------


## MarcJoshua

I have just spotted the female in the breeding tank and she now has a new brood with her! :Grin:  Just fed them crushed tetrabits with liquidfry. They seem to like it quite well. I hope this batch makes it.

----------


## SCOPE

Congrats again....

----------


## MarcJoshua

Thanks bro SCOPE! I have another question, should I remove the fries to another tank or let nature take its course?

----------


## Luc Tango

erh, i think you should remove if you find that the mom can't handle it. if not, removing the male would be fine.  :Smile:

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## SCOPE

i think the better way is remove the parents ...than the fries...i just worry a change of water parameter will kill some fries.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Hi guys, small update with pictures of the fries from last week. Haven't seen many of them today, I suspect they're hiding in the java moss. :Grin:  

Mommy with the brood.




Oh, here's a full tank shot of my breeding tank.


By the way, can anyone help me with the identification of this algae? Its been haunting my comm tank.

----------


## mobile2007

I also got tanks infected by that algae too. Simplest ( and effective) way, throw in 10-20 malayan shrimps, they will be gone overnight.  :Smile:

----------


## stormhawk

Nice shots Marc. That algae looks like BGA to me. Some people rely on giving the tank a 4 day total blackout phase. Seems to work to kill it. I have no idea how effective Malayan Shrimps are on this particular algae, but they're worth a try. Usually when this algae hits, it's a sign of some other problems. You might want to test the water.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Thanks stormhawk, by the way, what should I be testing for?

----------


## stormhawk

The usual parameters, and check if your filter is working fine. Sometimes it's because of an imbalance in the tank. Following paragraph is taken from Dusko Bojic's blog on algae:




> The BGA can be found in aquariums with very low nitrates because it can fix atmospheric nitrogen. BGA seem not to like very low pH and high CO2 levels. BGA doesn't prefer strong water currents. Excess organic loading is the real cause in many cases. Try removing decaying plant material and prune old leaves that are leaking organic nutrients back into the water column.


From: http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/

A little vacuuming of the gravel bed might help too.

----------


## sfk7

Most probably the algae is due to 'dead spot' as i assume you have very low current in your breeding tank.

Its easily siphoned out relative to other algae.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Sad news guys, my breeding male made a jump for freedom but ended in fishy heaven... Fries on the other hand are growing well with 7-10 left. some are quite big actually about 4 mm. Oh well, once these fellas grow up they'll be in the comm tank and the other pair can have a turn at making babies.

----------


## SCOPE

Anyway the good news is....look like this batch of fries is surviving well.

----------


## marle

my male died last time, got scope to get a male for me. can ask his assistance.

----------


## joopsg

True.
Ask the CO for help.

Any spawn for you, Marle?
Especially the exotic ones  :Smile:

----------


## marle

nope no signs of it at the moment. i probably have too many dithers in the tank. and the male is still chasing the female all the time. no luck yet.

----------


## joopsg

> nope no signs of it at the moment. i probably have too many dithers in the tank. and the male is still chasing the female all the time. no luck yet.


I always have 3 pencilfish (beckfordi) and 1 oto for each pair.
then suddenly become 5 pencils with 1 oto.

----------


## MarcJoshua

I have no dithers in my breeding setup. However I do wonder if keeping galaxies as dithers would be okay. Yeah or i could use my other pair... haha. I worried that if i transfer my fries up to the comm tank, they'd become food for my tetras and badis.

----------


## barmby

There may be flying dithers if the breeding tank is small  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:

----------


## iwishweallcouldwin

> There may be flying dithers if the breeding tank is small


not to mention dried-up dithers on the floor with ants gathering around them  :Knockout:

----------


## stormhawk

Galaxy are bad as dithers. They are not exactly the most robust of fish. The only dither I would use is the Otocinclus, or some other fast moving fish, maybe Glowlight Tetras.

----------


## iwishweallcouldwin

Perhaps you can try some pencilfishes too. Heard that they're pretty good as dithers.

----------


## doppelbanddwarf

I had a female diplotaenia which was probably too enthusiastic in chasing the few wild guppies I put in as dithers away from her brood. Ended up I found her dried on the floor and male took over guarding.

----------


## MarcJoshua

hey guys, only 4 fries remaining but they look big and healthy.  :Smile:

----------


## marle

thats great news! how big are they now?

----------


## MarcJoshua

the fries are about 5mm now. fully mobile and super cute. i actually have 5 in the breeding tank and 1 in the comm tank. looks like both of my pairs have bred.  :Grin:  will be moving the fries and single mom up into the comm tank and will move the pair down to try and get them to breed.

----------


## SCOPE

> the fries are about 5mm now. fully mobile and super cute. i actually have 5 in the breeding tank and 1 in the comm tank. looks like both of my pairs have bred.  will be moving the fries and single mom up into the comm tank and will move the pair down to try and get them to breed.


i will not be surprised that soon your tanks will be over flooded with more fries.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Haha, I might have to get a male off you Joe.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Hello guys, small update. 
Have moved mummy inka and fries up to the main tank. I'm rather confident they're too big to fit in anybody's mouths now.  :Grin:  And have transferred my other inka pair down to the breeding tank. But I couldn't resist temptation from the Bits (blue) I saw at NKS on saturday and thus now, my main tank has an extra pair of Bits. After getting home however I had the sinking feeling that I've become rather cock-eyed. Now I'm not sure if I have a sneaker male or a female. Here are some pics:

Bit F (Please help me identify if she is in fact a female.)




Here's the Male



Inka vs Bit??

----------


## Jitticus

The ventrals are very short, which could give you a good chance at it being a female. Another thing you can look out for is the round-ness of the belly after a meal. Males tend to have very little expansion of their bellies, compared to females (prior to spawning).

----------


## Luc Tango

I would say that's a female too. out of topic a bit, are the stocks still many at NKS?

----------


## MarcJoshua

Ohh almost forgot to mention, my "female" is slightly smaller than the confirmed male. So that still puts "her" sex in a debatable position does it not? Thanks for the advice Jit, will keep an eye open for it.  :Grin:

----------


## MarcJoshua

Hi Luc, the tanks of Bits are still rather full. However I squatted in front of the shishita tank for a while and simply could not locate a fish that even resembled a female bit. But perhaps I'm mistaken as the fish are very clustered and if varying sizes. Also the water in the shishita tank is rather cloudy, hence making it even harder to spot potential females.

----------


## joopsg

Joshua, use a mirror to make it flare please.
I got this feeling its 2 males.
I maybe wrong because I am still learning too.

----------


## Luc Tango

Thanks Marc, I'll probably head down to have a look one of these days.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Henry, she was flaring at the male. I have a feeling she is more a he too. I'll try to get more pics soon.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Guys, here are some more shots of the supposed female.







Let me know what you guys think!

----------


## Jitticus

Still looks like you have a good chance of it staying a female.  :Smile: 
That's a nice badis you have there.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Thanks Jit, I do hope its a female. Ohh my badis actually bred. I have a badis fry in the comm tank. In face it bigger than my inka fry. Haha.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Anybody can tell me if it really is a female please?

----------


## sheng

i think your so called Female is a male, i check on my 2 females Bit's Blue, they both have their forwards part of there pelvic fin in black.

I try to take picture of them but the tank was too dark.

----------


## SCOPE

Look female to me....but there are chance to be a male since the fish is still young

----------


## Jitticus

The ventral fins only turn dark when she is in her spawning dress or if she's really stressed.

----------


## MarcJoshua

Thanks guys, will pump them up and see if she turns yellow or she sprouts dorsal extentions. Haha.

----------


## sen_jie

it looks like a 90% female to me, except that the ventral are not black haha

reason to support my claim that it is a female

1) dark eye circle
2) bigger dot in the middle of the lateral line
3) caudal is round
4) anal fins seems to look roundish

----------


## genes

Hey Andrew, please quote where the pictures you attached for reference came from for the above pictures as well as for future pictures taken from the web.

The bitae looks female to me.

----------


## yorky

Looks like a young sneaker male to me.

----------


## joopsg

Its really looks like a male to me.

----------


## exotic_idiot

I guess by now he also can see whether male or female..
Anymore recent pics so that we can confirm the sex?

----------


## MarcJoshua

no new pics at the moment guys. will try to take some later.

----------


## MarcJoshua

To all whom guessed the female is actually a sneaker male, I think you guys are right.  :Sad:  Here are some pics of the sneaker male: 




And here are some of the male:



And last but in no way the least, BABY INKAS!  :Grin: :

----------


## exotic_idiot

Cute little inkas there...
Wow your sneaker male color up already also very attractive now, compare with the last time..

----------

