# Other Aquarium Forums > Freshwater Fauna > Cyprinids >  Boraras turning black

## GaspingGurami

It started with the Boraras urophthalmoides. Some stayed red and some turned black. I initially thought it is a water condition (pH 7.3). But after waterchanges, lowering pH etc, I don't see any improvement. I remember someone saying it is a pigmentation problem so I ignored it.

Now, the B. maculatus also starting to turn black too. Is this pignentation thing a disease that can be passed around? Or is it old age? They've been with me over a year. Any way of undoing the effect? You see, I much prefer to see them fish colourfully red and orange and peacock than black.

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## GaspingGurami

Er,... any thoughts, anyone?

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## bullosa

Havent encountered such a thing. However these fishes come from water with low pH. Their natural habitat averages a pH of 4.5. Perhaps the stress from the extreme difference?

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## GaspingGurami

> Havent encountered such a thing. However these fishes come from water with low pH. Their natural habitat averages a pH of 4.5. Perhaps the stress from the extreme difference?


You're most probably right. Something is strangely different in this low light, low maintenance tank. I'm getting pH 7.3 before lights up and 7.5 when lights go out!

Although most of these fishes have taken on the reddish colourings after living there for a long time, so stress cannot be a factor, some have turned black. Perhaps the pH of the water determines its colouration?

Parameters are:
Volume: 15gal
Lighting, 0.9 watts per gallon
Substrate: Lapis
Basefert: JBL
Fert: weekly 5ml LGA, 2ppm PO4, 10ml excel
Waterchange: Top up evaporated water, Last time I did waterchange was due to pH rising to 8

Livestock:
Shrimps
B. maculatus, urop, T. espei

Plants:
E. tennelus, Java ferns and moss on driftwood, A. barteri nana

Problem: 
1) pH slowly rises
2) Boraras turning black

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## ranmasatome

4.5?????? you sure??

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## PeterGwee

How often are you doing water changes? Adding excel is like CO2 except at lower strength hence if you apply EI, it is better if you do the water changes to prevent build up. Non-CO2 tanks (no excel even) are different and requires you to eyeball the faster growers in the tank for deficiency and only supplement nutrients when needed or else it is just daily feeding.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## |squee|

It might be the food you're feeding. Fish get their colouration from pigments in the food they consume (or so I've read, this isn't from an encyclopedia though) so you might want to look at what you're feeding them.

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## bullosa

> 4.5?????? you sure??


Yes, pH reading taken on site at the rivers where B Bridgitae and S Axelrodi lives are 4.2 (last reading taken 2 days ago).

Low pH is good for the fishes.  :Smile:  Lesser problems with secondary bacteria infections.

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## PeterGwee

Too low and it bugs the bacteria...not a big deal in a planted tank since they only act as a backup but for a fish only tank...  :Roll Eyes:  

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## ranmasatome

Wah.. i read this article about fish living in acidic conditions but i didnt know it was this acidic.. the last time they tested with black neon tetras and it was only ph 4.1 and they lived for about a day. This fish is great!!

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## GaspingGurami

Wouldn't a pH that is so acidic also eat away the aquarium fittings like the tank sealant, filter impeller etc?

BTW how does one get a tank to this level of acidity without CO2? I've read somewhere that normal vinegar can be used -- slowly lower the pH weekly -- is that true?

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## bullosa

I dont know if your E tenellus and Barteri can hack the low pH water. Anyway low pH water fishes can gradually adapt to higher pH provided it is not big a diffrence. Usually Crypts, Java Fern and moss can thrive in such pH.

To lower the pH, you can use any of the pH down solutions easily obtained in any LFS. But changes must be done gradually, not more then .5 each time. The best method is by dripping. Fill a bucket with pH conditioned water and using an air tube, drip (1 drop a second) to your tank.

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## GaspingGurami

> How often are you doing water changes? Adding excel is like CO2 except at lower strength hence if you apply EI, it is better if you do the water changes to prevent build up. Non-CO2 tanks (no excel even) are different and requires you to eyeball the faster growers in the tank for deficiency and only supplement nutrients when needed or else it is just daily feeding.


Oh, I don't change water, only top up evaporation.  :Embarassed:  I thought with such low lighting and the minimal fertilisation I put in (2ml of LGA into the 56L gives barely 3ppm of NO3 per week), I need not worry about excess building up (60% of the visible volume is covered by some kind of plant or moss).

So Peter, do you reckon the rising pH could be the result of nutrient buildup? Perhaps I should ease off on the PO4?

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## sfk7

Reviving an old thread.

Anyone knows the reason behind the boraras turning black?

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## GaspingGurami

Wow! I didn't know I wrote that so long ago!

Now with 4 years of observation, I surmise there are a few factors:
1) pH is a small part of it. If your pH is too high (basic), it tends to lose colour but doesn't turn black
2) Diet played a minimal part - fed food with colour enhancers but no benefit.
3) Light played a big part in mine turning black. Because the moss was covering almost everything, it was more like night time all the time for the fish. After trimming off most of the plants so that I can see the fish, the colours came back again. In fact, the urophs became so gold and red, it can be mistaken (without wearing reading glasses, I can mistake many things haha), to be B. brigittae.

LL

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## lEddyl

mine improve using ketapang leave. you might want to try it

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## sfk7

Thanks for the updates!

I'll go to the LFS and check their condition again before buying. Cheers

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## aquanatix

> 3) Light played a big part in mine turning black. Because the moss was covering almost everything, it was more like night time all the time for the fish. After trimming off most of the plants so that I can see the fish, the colours came back again. In fact, the urophs became so gold and red, it can be mistaken (without wearing reading glasses, I can mistake many things haha), to be B. brigittae.
> 
> LL


Just too add...low light=blackish colour? Hmm,not sure how this pans out but i've kept them both in high tech and low tech tanks but still the occasional black fish occurs though parameters are kept the same. In any case,the blackish colouration could probably be an indication of stress since it does not happen to every piece. I bought mine in a batch of 100 and i noticed only the skinnier ones turn black and eventually die. The bigger ones almost never contact the disease. I'm guessing that it's a survival of the fittest thing? :Wink:

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## CrazyPlantLady

Wow, 100 Boraras brigittae?? That must be quite a sight. 

I've never had any turn black, but my experience is with only 6. I hope I can breed them someday soon.

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## apistomaster

I noted that the OP only topped off the tank to replace evaporated water.
This causes the disolved solids to increase and fish waste too.
AS they say, the solution to pollution is dilution. Regular large water changes are necessary. Boraras spp do best at at pH below 5.0 and extremely low dissolved solids. Use rain water or RO water with just enough minerals to keep the KH at about 2 and a GH of 3.
These are somewhat extreme conditions but many fish need them. Most of the wild Betta of the coccina complex and Chocolate Gourami are examples.
Checkerboard Cichlids, Dicrossus filamentosus is another example.

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## GaspingGurami

> I noted that the OP only topped off the tank to replace evaporated water.
> This causes the disolved solids to increase and fish waste too.
> AS they say, the solution to pollution is dilution. Regular large water changes are necessary.


The other way is through removal of solid waste before it can dissolve, through frequent filter cleaning, and plant pruning. This tank is filtered by an Eheim 2222 and a Hydor Prime 10. I needed 2 filters because water circulation was a problem with the dense growth of moss and other plants.




> Boraras spp do best at at pH below 5.0 and extremely low dissolved solids. Use rain water or RO water with just enough minerals to keep the KH at about 2 and a GH of 3.


Today, 4 years down the road, the same Boraras are still around. Plant mass had been quartered as I get complaints from the family that there is nothing to see with all that plant growth obscuring everything. Now with more light, their colours have returned, so I still think that their colour blackening was due to adapting to dim dark conditions of that time, as I don't have black ones in the brighter tank now.




> These are somewhat extreme conditions but many fish need them. Most of the wild Betta of the coccina complex and Chocolate Gourami are examples.
> Checkerboard Cichlids, Dicrossus filamentosus is another example.


I've some questions to ask because I've not succeeded in keeping Chocolate Gouramies and Sundadanio axelrodi for longer than 9 months.
1) shouldn't pH go down if fish waste is allowed to accumulate? I always thought mulm sours the water.
2) Although these factors go hand in hand, which of these 2 groups are more important to these softwater fishes - low pH or low KH and GH?
3) my KH is 2DKH (new and old API testkit). pH hovering from pH6.0 at first light to pH6.8 at last light can be attributed to plants using up the CO2 in the water in the photoperiod. I've not added any fertiliser for a long time now, neither is CO2 injected. There are no rocks beside lapis sand. In short, there's nothing to harden or soften the water besides the fish food (which I've not tested). Can it then be possible for pH to go down to pH6.0 at first light (that works out to be 59ppm CO2!!!) without supplementing with CO2? Or could this be due to the acidic mulm buffering the pH that skewed the reading? (Even tested pH with all electricals off - just in case theres a power leakage to fool the pH pen).
4) My last request for guidance, that I've not been able to achieve is how to get the pH down to pH4.0 without resorting to using pH down, CO2, acid buffers or other chemical soup? At KH 0.1, it takes 300ppm of CO2 to bring the pH down to 4.0. What can I do to achieve pH4.0?

Thanks for replying.

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## TyroneGenade

What is the NO3 level in the tank when the fish turn black? At high NO3 level bacteria in the gut of the fish can convert the NO3- to NO2 which will bind to the hemoglobin and turn it blue. These blue and very dead blood cells can get stuck in the capillaries of the fish and cause black flecks to appear.

That the black disappears when the plants are trimmed suggests NO3- to me because with pruning comes renewed and vigorous growth which will suck NO3- out of the water.

The fish don't die from the NO3-/NO2- poisoning because they are so tiny which allows the passive diffusion of O3 through the system to sustain it. However, the hemoglobin now also can't carry CO2 which means the blood of the fish turns acid causing the hemoglobin and other blood proteins to precipitate in tissues to far removed from the gills.

The rise in tank pH is due to the plants taking up H+ ions to synthesize sugars. Your fish might have been dead were it not for the high pH which could prevent all their blood going acid.

Don't mess with the pH. The fish are happiest at a stable pH rather than one which needs constant tweeking.

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