# Other Aquarium Forums > Equipment and Accessories >  Lily pipe vs rain/spray bar

## vinz

Just wondering, how does a lily pipe compare to a spray bar?

For one, spraybar should limit the flowrate of the filter somewhat as the outlet is reduced to a dozen or so holes about 2mm in diameter.Or maybe not, as total area of the dozen or so holes added up will probably be about the same area as the normal outlet.

But it does generate jets of water.

Given the same flowrate, will the lily pipe provide a more gentle solution?

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## vinz

Anybody with preferences? And why?

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## PeterGwee

> Just wondering, how does a lily pipe compare to a spray bar?
> 
> For one, spraybar should limit the flowrate of the filter somewhat as the outlet is reduced to a dozen or so holes about 2mm in diameter.Or maybe not, as total area of the dozen or so holes added up will probably be about the same area as the normal outlet.
> 
> But it does generate jets of water.
> 
> Given the same flowrate, will the lily pipe provide a more gentle solution?


A spraybar is able to generate even current across a big tank whereas a lily pipe (a single outlet) would not be able to do so. Tom Barr actually mentions that if you put the spraybar along the bottom back of a tank, it actually mimics the flow of a river and is especially useful for folks running their DIY CO2 reactor inline (sends the CO2 rich water under the plant leaves where the stomata is located.). The lily pipe is actually more for looks but does have one unique feature (the top portion draws in surface water and circulates it down into the pipe and outputs it out/up in a wide open gentle flow which removes surface scum.).

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## ntoken

i prefer rainbars, they can break away any oily slimy stuff from forming on the surface.

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## juggler

Maybe we can use a plastic funnel and cut it to shape like a lily pipe?
If looks doesn't matter...  :Smile:

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## BFG

There was a thread about a plastic version of the lily pipe being sold by NA. I do have 1 but misplaced it since I had to shut down my 3ft.

After an extensive search, here is the link-

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=11460

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## |squee|

I place my rainbar vertically along the side of my 2ft tank. I've no idea what benefits there are, but it looks neater for me, since it's hiden by my Cyperus Helferi this way.

Shouldn't this is be Equipment?  :Razz:

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## vinz

> ...
> 
> Shouldn't this is be Equipment?


Uhhhh... duhz. Moved.

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## PeterGwee

> Maybe we can use a plastic funnel and cut it to shape like a lily pipe?
> If looks doesn't matter...


The lily pipe's design is unique in such a way it actually can act as a surface skimmer due to special shape which I doubt could be achieved with other stuff unless they copy the entire thing.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## stormhawk

Does anyone have an image of this lily pipe? I've not heard about it.  :Huh?:

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## PeterGwee

> Does anyone have an image of this lily pipe? I've not heard about it.


Here you go...


Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## hjbyeo

Guys, how does it act like a surface skimmer?

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## stormhawk

Thanks for the pic Peter. Hmm.. very interesting design but the water flows out slowly or in a circular spread-out motion? I'd still go with the rainbar type though.  :Smile: 

I guess it must be another ADA contraption and naturally, it'll cost a bomb too.  :Razz:

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## PeterGwee

The bottom portion of the lily pipe is wider. The water that shoots out actually hits the lower "cup" which reduces the intensity of the flow and allows a more gradual wide flow than normal pipe outlets. I do remember seeing a picture of a girl holding onto a lily pipe with the flow being shown..not sure which site it is on now but I'll post it once I get home tonight.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## juggler

This is the thread http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ead.php?t=1703

and the girl ... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...4&postcount=22

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## PeterGwee

> This is the thread http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ead.php?t=1703
> 
> and the girl ... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...4&postcount=22


Thanks KF.  :Smile:  

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## stormhawk

Thanks to Peter and Koah Fong for the info and links.

Looks like a good item but I was reading through the thread from APD and it seems they were having questions about violating intellectual property rights since they basically copied a design direct from ADA.  :Cool:

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## PeterGwee

You should only consider it if your tank is braceless since side mounting is the best placement for the ADA lily pipe. Personally, I would do it cheap and go with a spraybar and mimic flow of a river via placement at the bottom back if using reactor inline which most folks here do.




> Looks like a good item but I was reading through the thread from APD and it seems they were having questions about violating intellectual property rights since they basically copied a design direct from ADA.


Well, get the real deal and support amano if you really like the thing. Give him and his staff some credit and support.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## stormhawk

I thought about that placement which you mentioned but most of my fish are bottom-dwellers so the added current isn't what they like. Probably somewhere beneath the water line might work for my current setup. I think I'll go DIY an inline reactor when I have the time to do so. Shouldn't be too difficult once I have all the parts.  :Smile:

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## vinz

I don't know who came up with the original idea for the lily pipe, but Eheim has one... in green plastic of course. One of the other Cannister filter brands have them too, similar in design to Eheim's one.

ADA design is vastly different from the Ehiem one, but the concept is the same.

Nature Aquarium at Balestier stock some green plastic ones similar to the Eheim one. Brand, I never asked.

As for performance, here's my story. I installed a new filter yesterday, and put a dedicated pump on my chiller. The filter is giving me slightly under 3 x my tank volume per hour, and the pump is giving me 4 x my tank volume per hour. Using spraybars originally, current in the tank was very high. Although supposedly directional jets, it seemed that the water current was going everywhere no matter which way I point (didn't point against the wall though). Plants were swaying all over the place.

Today, I got lily pipes from NA and just installed them. The flow in the tank is much gentler now, but there is good circulation.

My conclusion is lily pipes give a much gentler current then spray bars. But ultimately, it depends on your needs and filter output vs tank size.

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## PeterGwee

Vinz, what type of placement or outlets are actually fine as long as water is well circulated in the tank. You can measure your pH at various points of the tank (apply to mostly big tanks since small tanks don't need much circulation) while injecting CO2 to see if you have areas that are lagging and try to adjust the flow to get to those areas. Spraybars can be located at the bottom-back of the tank pointed forward along the gravel with massive currents with no problems of plants moving around that much.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## vinz

Peter,

I doubt so in this case. The currents from the spraybars are very strong. Plants that are on the opposite end of my 6ft tank were swaying quite strongly with just one of the filter/pump running. Whether its along the top of the tank or the bottom of the tank, it'll be the same... given the same length of spraybar.

There is a distinct difference in the nature of the output... a non-tank analogy is when you compare water running out of a hose without interference and water spraying long distances with force when you restrict the opening.

This can alleviated with longer spraybars with more holes.

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## PeterGwee

The spraybars are side-mounted rather than the along the entire length of the tank? Well, if it works for you, it's fine as long as the tank is well circulated.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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## vinz

Exactly.... good circulation.

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## celticfish

hi all,

as mentioned in previous posts i have a lot of hi-tech equipment from an old-bird forummer that i haven't put to good use. but have all the time to check them out! was just looking at the ehiem 2028 spray bar and the lily pipe like outflow attachment (the ehiem green type) that i have. 

here's another fluid dynamics point (i'm starting to see the value of the course in this hobby!). mass flow rate at any cross section must be equal at all cross sections of a pipe. as an example cross section area A has flow rate 10cm/s. then downstream cross section B has twice area A then flow rate becomes 5cm/s. 

i have just measured the spray bar diameter 4mm with 9 holes. the pipe diameter is 14mm. so flow rate for pipe must equal the 9 holes along the spray bar. area is Πr^2 giving pipe 49mm^2 and spray holes 36mm^2 (multipled by 9 holes). this give a flow rate of 136% for the 9-hole spray bar vs pipe cross section. also with the differing pressure along the pipe the velocity of the water will get weaker towards end of the spray bar. so that the spray hole nearest the inlet will have the fastest flow and the end one will have the slowest flow.

now if you increased the area of the pipe like the lily pipe outflow... from the ADA pictures it looks like 4 times the size of the pipe. this will give you 25% flow rate of the pipe. 

so if you take vinz's suggestion and double the spray bar holes (two spray pipes) you will have 68% of the pipe velocity. the green attachment i have is only double the size of the cross section although the opening looks like more than four times the top portion is not covered (please see benny's pic). i suspect the direction of the flow will not be as well controlled as the ADA ones (please see the link on this thread for the ADA pic).

celticfish




> Peter,
> 
> I doubt so in this case. The currents from the spraybars are very strong. Plants that are on the opposite end of my 6ft tank were swaying quite strongly with just one of the filter/pump running. Whether its along the top of the tank or the bottom of the tank, it'll be the same... given the same length of spraybar.
> 
> There is a distinct difference in the nature of the output... a non-tank analogy is when you compare water running out of a hose without interference and water spraying long distances with force when you restrict the opening.
> 
> This can alleviated with longer spraybars with more holes.

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## copycat

> Just wondering, how does a lily pipe compare to a spray bar?
> 
> For one, spraybar should limit the flowrate of the filter somewhat as the outlet is reduced to a dozen or so holes about 2mm in diameter.Or maybe not, as total area of the dozen or so holes added up will probably be about the same area as the normal outlet.
> 
> But it does generate jets of water.
> 
> Given the same flowrate, will the lily pipe provide a more gentle solution?


Woh, there seems to have a whole lot of engineering ppl in this forum.
Anyway for me, i would prefer lily pipe, less maintaince issuse. I had tried out the spray bar once, and after something, alage start growing inside them, had trouble removing them. Looking at the design of the lily bar, it does look to smoothen out the flow as compare to spray bar. Yes, I assume spray bar would reduced the flow of water slightly, as you created more resistance for the outlet water flow, that why you have all the spray coming in. As resistance increase, volumetric flowrate should decrease rt?

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## cbong

Its interesting to learn that spray bars can be placed at the back bottom of the tank. I thot its normally at the top.

Anyone has a picture to show how you set it up?

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## PeterGwee

> Its interesting to learn that spray bars can be placed at the back bottom of the tank. I thot its normally at the top.
> 
> Anyone has a picture to show how you set it up?


Just make sure you have some surface movement to go along with it just in case plant production goes south.

Regards
Peter Gwee  :Wink:

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